Debates - Friday, 21st February, 2014

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 21st February, 2014

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

POSTPONEMENT OF MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that last week, I requested the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to present a ministerial statement this week on a point of order raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central relating to the treatment of a female suspect by the Mazabuka Police. Similarly, I requested the hon. Minister of Justice to present a ministerial statement this week on a point of order raised by the hon. Member for Monze Central relating to the enactment of the New Constitution. However, both hon. Ministers have not been able to present the ministerial statements due to other national commitments and have asked for permission to present them next week.

Thank you.
_______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an outline of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 25th February, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Service Commissions (Amendment) Bill, 2013.

Sir, on Wednesday, 26th February, 2014, the Business of the House will probably begin with the swearing in of the new hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba Constituency, which will excite us on this side of the House very much. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. Then, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee Appointed to Scrutinise the Presidential Appointments of Hon. Mr Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu and Hon. Mr Justice Albert Mark Wood to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Hon. Judge Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba, Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri, Mr Mwila Chitabo, SC., Mr William Smith Mweemba and Mr Charles Chanda to serve as Puisne Judges.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 27th February, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Sir, finally, on Friday, 28th September, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the Presentation of Government Bills. Then, the House will deal with any business that may remain outstanding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

For the record, 28th September, 2014, is actually supposed to be 28th February, 2014.

_________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

REVISED NATIONAL EDUCATION CURRICULUM FRAMEWORK

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present this ministerial statement on the Revised National Education Curriculum Framework. In my Ministerial Policy Statement for 2014 …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left.

Dr Phiri: … to this august House, when I presented the ministry’s Estimates of Expenditure for the Financial Year 2014, the House will recall that I stated as follows regarding the national curriculum:

“The highlight of the 2013 activities was the introduction of the New National Curriculum Framework, 2013, which saw the completion, piloting in all provinces and evaluation of the framework which is ready to be rolled-out in phases. The framework has been developed to provide guidance on the preferred type of education for the nation. It is a product of a consultative and participatory process with all the key stakeholders over the last four years.”

Mr Speaker, today, I find it imperative that I update hon. Members of Parliament on the revised curriculum because of the crucial role that they play in the education sector. I will lay on the Table the said Zambia Education Curriculum Framework, 2013, to allow hon. Members of Parliament to further interrogate and gain sufficient insights of the curriculum. I will also lay on the Table the following three appendices to my statement today:

Appendix 1: Why a Local Language? Ten reasons

Appendix 2: Why a local language? Research evidence

Appendix 3: Children whose Local Language is English

Sir, the National School Curriculum has not been reviewed for many years. We have been using the curriculum that our founding fathers and mothers put in place after the country’s attainment of Independence, which was based on the repealed 1966 Education Act. Due to the passage of time and changes in the social, economic, political and technological life of the nation, our school curriculum became archaic in many ways and required serious attention.

Mr Speaker, over the years, many studies have been conducted that have revealed the inadequacies of the national curriculum. Over the same period, many voices of discontent from academicians, language experts, educational psychologists, educationists, parliamentarians and other stakeholders have been heard. In fact, many negative aspects of the curriculum have been ably documented in the National Education Policy of 1996 - Educating Our Future.

Mr Speaker, the following are some of the negative aspects of the curriculum:

(a) it is predominantly examination-oriented and places heavy emphasis on factual information that does not assess critical learning areas;

(b) it controls much of the teaching and learning at primary school level without considering the fact that the child’s dominant way of learning is through exploring and experiencing;

(c) it uses a language as a medium of instruction in the early grades, that is, the lower primary school level, that is alien to the majority of learners and is different from the language of the community and home;

(d) it is excessively overloaded and inflexible; and

(e) it has little consideration for emerging technological and social developments. For example, information and communication technologies, and life skills, sexuality, financial and entrepreneurship education.
Mr Speaker, due to these and many other factors, the education system did not provide learners with the desired education. Many primary-school learners did not exhibit the expected fundamental competences in reading, writing and numeracy. At secondary level, learners lacked knowledge, skills and values that should characterise a secondary school learner. The outcome of this is predictable. The learning achievements among learners in all the subject areas are very low compared to other countries in the sub region.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that when I presented a statement on examination results last week, I stated that although the results were improving, the quality of grades among learners is not satisfactory. This is because many learners do not acquire fundamental competences during early learning and fail to comprehend new knowledge and concepts at the higher levels of the education system.

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that all learners everywhere, be it rural or urban, have the right to the fullest possible personal development through high standards of teaching and educational support. To safeguard this right, the ministry has the obligation to ensure that many factors that contribute to quality in education, that is, the curriculum and its associated materials, the teaching methodologies, assessment processes and school supervision are taken care of in order to promote effective teaching and learning. It is for this reason that my ministry has comprehensively reviewed the school curriculum.

Mr Speaker, the theme of the curriculum is appropriately titled: “Empowering Learners by Putting Theory into Practice”, and is intended to remind teachers that teaching methods and strategies should now focus on producing a learner with five life skills to cope with different challenges of life. This is in line with the Patriotic Front’s (PF) Manifesto which seeks to re-orient the curriculum at all levels of the education system in order to put emphasise on life skills.

Mr Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to inform this august House that the implementation of the new school curriculum will be conducted in phases as follows:

 Year  Grade/Level

 2014  Pre- School  1 5  8 10
  
 2015   2 6 9 11 Adult Literacy

2016   3 7 12
 
 2017  4

According to this implementation plan, the first examination based on the new curriculum will be administered in Grade 9 in 2015. This will be followed by Grades 7 and 12 examinations in 2016.

Mr Speaker, may I now briefly explain the prominent reforms in the education curriculum at different levels of the education system.

Mr Speaker, at early childhood education level, the main changes are as follows:

(a) the curriculum has been standardised. All early learning centres in the country will use one curriculum which has been developed by the ministry. Both public and private institutions of learning are required to use the new national curriculum. This is meant to provide uniform early education to all learners in the different parts of the country and in line with international standards;

(b) the new curriculum has been linked to Grade 1 in order to help learners transit smoothly to primary schools;

(c) sixty per cent of the learning time will be devoted to social interaction through play activities, while academic activities will constitute 40 per cent of the learning time; and

(d) the medium of instruction shall be a local language that the children in a particular locality are familiar with.

Mr Speaker, let me turn my attention to the primary school level. Currently, local languages are used as a medium of instruction at Grade 1 only and English is used from Grade 2 upwards. In the new curriculum, the ministry has made the following changes:

(a) the medium of instruction from Grades 1 to 4 shall be a familiar local language. By definition, a local language means one of the seven official local languages in the country, while English shall be taught as a subject from Grade 2. From Grade 5 upwards, the medium of instruction shall continue to be English which is the official language for the country. This change at Grades 1 to 4 will enable many learners to acquire basic literacy, numeracy, scientific, technological knowledge, skills and values because the teaching will be done in a language they understand well;

(b) developed a new approach to the teaching of initial literacy in the early grades which …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You have stopped listening, please, can there be order.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Phiri: … follows the internationally-recognised methods of teaching literacy based on initial sounds, phonics and word building;

(c) introduced literacy and numeracy competency tests at Grades 1 and 4 to ensure that learners breakthrough in literacy and numeracy at the lower primary school level before they proceed to Grades 2 and 5. For this reason, teachers will work hard so that their learners pass and proceed to the next levels. If they do not pass, interventions must be worked out to help them proceed;

(d) introduced information and communication technology (ICT); and

(e) introduced sign language in the area of special education.

Mr Speaker, the following are the salient changes that are being made in the secondary school curriculum:

(a) the creation of two curriculum paths at Grade 8, that is, academic and vocational. The academic path is meant for learners with a passion for academic subjects and a desire for careers in that direction;

(b) the provision of practical skills to learners following the vocational path from Grades 8 to 12. The vocational path is for learners with ambitions and interest in technical and other hands-on subjects. In the provision of this curriculum, schools shall closely collaborate with the Technical, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) and other line ministries. Learners using the vocational curriculum will obtain trade certificates as well as Grades 9 and 12 certificates. The trade certificates will be offered by TEVETA, whereas academic certificates will be offered, as usual, by the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ). We hope that the beginning of the vocational path will include the subject areas of bricklaying, plastering, carpentry and joinery, metal fabrication, electrical engineering, home management and food production;

(c) popularisation of computer and business studies at senior secondary level;

(d) offering of Zambian languages as compulsory subjects at junior secondary school level to be studied by learners pursing the academic curriculum, but will be optional subjects at senior secondary school level; and

(e) integration of entrepreneurship in appropriate subjects at this level, with emphasis on learners running small business projects in groups while at school. The purpose of this is to develop learners’ creative and innovative capacities, and thereby foster the skills and attitudes which will assist them to be successful as employees, entrepreneurs or employers in their own right.

Mr Speaker, regarding the national and global challenges and concerns, the new curriculum has further incorporated this aspect.

Added to the curriculum are several cross-cutting concerns. Prominent among them are the following:

(a) Comprehensive Sexuality Education;

(b) Life Skills Education;

(c) Financial Education;

(d) Anti-Corruption Education;

(e) Drug and Substance Abuse Education;

(f) Environmental Education; and

(g) Road Safety Education.

Mr Speaker, allow me to inform the House that as a consequence of these curriculum reforms, the Adult Literacy and Teacher Education curricula have been reviewed to re-align them to the changed curricula landscape in the school system.

Mr Speaker, allow me to briefly talk about the implementation of the new curriculum, beginning with supplementary reading materials. In order to consolidate the reading skills, which learners acquire in the initial literacy teaching, the ministry, working with stakeholders, has provided supplementary reading books in the seven local languages.

Primary schools are provided with reading boxes with assorted supplementary books in local languages with financial support from the following projects:

(a) Room to Read;

(b) Read to Succeed;

(c)  Time to Learn; and

(d)  University of Zambia (UNZA) Centre for the Promotion of Literacy in Sub-Sahara Africa (CAPOLSA).

 The other financial support is from the following institutions:
 
(a) Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO);
 
(b) Indo-Zambia Bank;

(c) Kansanshi Mine;

(d) Investrust Bank;

(e)  Total Zambia; and

(f)  United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF).

Sir, the ministry will spend K8.5 million to pay the Zambia Education Publishing House (ZEPH) for the materials it is printing. For the works that have already been done, ZEPH has been paid K2.9 million. I wish to emphasise that this injection of funds has resuscitated ZEPH which we found at its weakest when we took over the Government. The ministry has also allocated K113 million, through the 2014 Budget, which was passed in this House, to procure additional educational materials from private publishers to support the implementation of the new curriculum.

Mr Speaker, on learning and teaching materials, the ministry has distributed soft and hard copies of the new curriculum, national literacy framework and the syllabi to all the districts in Zambia. We have also distributed hard copies of the Grade 1, Term II Literacy Text Books in the seven local languages.

Sir, the ministry has also distributed hard copies of the Early Childhood Education Syllabi and instructional materials to 300 early learning centres countrywide. Other materials are still being printed and will be distributed before the end of this school term.

Text books for content subjects for Grades 1, 5, 8 and 10 have been developed by the following private publishers and made available to schools:

(a) Longman/Pearson;

(b) Mwanjionera;

(c) Maiden;

(d) MK;

(e) Bookworld;

(f) Oxford Publishers; and

(g) Insaka Press.

Mr Speaker, as I indicated, this year, the Government has allocated K113 million to the Curriculum Development Programme to support the implementation of the new curriculum. This will go a long way in ensuring the adequate provision of educational materials in Phases II and III. It will also go a long way in helping Zambia own this curriculum because we do not want to leave this heavy burden to the co-operating partners.

There are challenges even in this task. Any curriculum change worldwide, as Mr Speaker will acknowledge, brings with it some challenges. However, I am confident that with the collaboration, co-operation and concerted efforts of all the stakeholders, these challenges can be overcome. I, therefore, implore every well-meaning Zambian and co-operating partner to support its implementation. Above all, we need the support of this august House.

Sir, let me end my statement by acknowledging the efforts of our technocrats and other stakeholders who worked tirelessly over the last five years to design and develop this curriculum. Among these are universities, House of Chiefs, Parliamentary Committee on Education, Science and Technology, churches, civil society, financial institutions, parastatal organisations, teachers’ unions, and parents and learners. The financial and technical support from our co-operating partners cannot be ignored. I am aware that they have helped us in reviewing the curriculum and are still supporting us in implementing the new curriculum as they work with the ministry in the provision of instructional materials.

Mr Speaker, I now wish to appeal particularly to hon. Members of this august House to support the implementation of this new curriculum. With God’s divine favour and grace, the curriculum will be a blessing to Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on an unprecedented point of order.

Is the Leader of Government Business in the House in order to inform this House and the nation that I raised a point of order pertaining to the constitution-making process on the Floor of this House and that next week, he would respond to me when, in actual fact, I did not raise that point of order?

Sir, the point of order was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, Hon. Mucheleka. How is he going to answer me when I have been mute and did not raise that point of order on the Floor of this House? I know he is desirous to answer me, but is he in order to say that he is going to respond to me?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, if what the hon. Member for Monze Central has said is what actually happened, then, obviously, His Honour the Vice-President must have forgotten the facts. Therefore, in that context, he was out of order.

Can the hon. Member for Pemba continue.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, most rural secondary schools are not electrified. How, then, will the learners take electrical engineering and other subjects that need electricity?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of the predicament it has found itself in. When you go through the document, which I have laid on the Table, you will discover that we are firstly targeting institutions which are already offering such subjects and, later, we will extend it to other institutions. In fact, to be more specific, we are going to begin with institutions which are already offering such subjects as we prepare more schools to take on that responsibility. We are aware of the predicament of most of our schools in the country of being unable to access electricity.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, the people of Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency seek clarification from the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education on reform item No. 4 to be specific.

Sir, the hon. Minister has stated that the seven local languages will be taught from Grades 1 to 4. Two weeks ago, pupils at one of the schools in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency protested against what they termed infringement on their rights by being taught in Lunda in an area that is predominantly Luvale speaking.  I would like the hon. Minister to clearly state that as long as the official language in an area like Solwezi, Kaoma, Chingola …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Ms Sayifwanda: Sir, I am now coming to my question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The preamble is too long.

Ms Sayifwanda: Sir, is the hon. Minister saying that the seven official local languages can be taught anywhere. For example, since Lunda is one of the official languages, can it be taught in Solwezi? Lunda is also spoken in Mongu. So, can it be taught in Mongu? Let him clarify the language zoning because there is already ‘fire’ in Zambezi.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thought you were going to protect me by saying that the hon. Member has debated her question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is out of order.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, language issues are always emotive and, if they are not based on the law that exists in the country, we are going to cause anarchy. I would, therefore, like to encourage hon. Members of this House not to use language for political expedience.

Mr Livune: Question!

Dr Phiri: Sir, it is not that I have any evidence against any hon. Member, but I am only imploring the hon. Members to treat this as a sensitive issue.

Ms Sayifwanda interjected.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Minister answer your question

Dr Phiri: Sir, as at now, the Constitution, ministry guidelines and policy are very clear that the seven official languages shall be used as instruments of teaching and learning in specific zones and that must remain as our guideline until we reach a stage where we can review it. That is the principal guide that we use as a ministry and which all of us must accept to use.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, last week, I sympathised with the hon. Minister as he lamented the failure rates in our schools.

Sir, from Grades 1 to 4, the children will be taught in the vernacular. Then, from Grades 5 to 7, they will be taught in English which they will be examined upon. Is that not going to increase the failure rate?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I deliberately chose to place an important appendix to my statement because I did not want hon. Members to remain behind with regard to this information.

 Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There are too many people consulting loudly.

Dr Phiri: Sir, I said that I have laid the paper, which contains ten reasons a local language should be used, on the Table. It also contains empirical research evidence which suggests to the contrary that the use of local languages at lower primary school level better prepares children for subsequent learning. There is empirical evidence to this effect. Unless you conduct some research, you will not understand this. You do not just say, “Question, question” because we have empirical evidence.

Sir, let me also correct the notion that I lamented the failure rate in our schools. Lamenting is not part of my vocabulary. I acknowledged to the nation that although we have made marginal improvement, which is very good for our teachers and learners, I want some more progress in the results of pupils. This should not suggest that I was lamenting.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members may be aware that all these challenges are opportunities for them and I to make a difference in the lives of our children and not to lament. Lamentations will not bring us anything, but we must look at all these challenges as opportunities. I would like to thank God that we have been given this responsibility now when the challenges are rife so that we make a difference in the lives of our children.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I acknowledge the statement by the hon. Minister that language is a very emotive issue and that is the reason the declaration of official languages is a Constitution matter. Article 1 (5) of the Constitution of Zambia provides for an official language and it says the official language of Zambia shall be English. May I find out from the hon. Minister when the Constitution of Zambia was amended to provide for seven official languages apart from English?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Sir, the Constitution has not been amended. Let me state that for us to improve the learning of English, it became necessary to provide guidelines in our policy, as a ministry, that local languages should have an influence on the learning of children. This issue is not new. For the past several years, children have been learning in local languages in Grade 1. As a result of the gains that we have seen and the progress children are making, we are extending it to Grade 4. This should be applauded rather than condemned.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I wish I could be allowed to ask more than one question.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order not to respond to the issue that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata relating to a constitutional issue pertaining to the official language of this country? The hon. Minister indicated that according to the Constitution, there are seven official languages. The question by the hon. Member for Kabwata was: Have there been any amendments to the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia to include the seven official languages? The hon. Minister has not responded to this question. Could the hon. Minister respond to that question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Could the hon. Minister, please, respond.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I did not dispute the fact that English is Zambia’s official language. In fact, in my statement, I said that Zambia is the official language of …

Laughter

Dr Phiri: … English is the official language of Zambia. However, at school level, using that constitutional mandate, we have devised …

Hon. PF Member: It is not wrong.

Dr Phiri: No, it is not wrong at all. We have devised ways of how this official language can be better understood by our children at national level, and that is what I am presenting here.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I was wondering whether …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, by way of guidance, …

Mr Livune remained standing.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You, sit down.

Mr Livune resumed his seat.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, we have a lot of business on the Order Paper, and I am timing it because we have to finish it. If we are going to debate through points of order, we may only have two or three contributions before I move on to the next item on the Order Paper and there will be murmuring. So, can we, please, limit our points of order? With that guidance, I am not granting any more points of order.

Hon. Member for Mumbwa, you may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out which sign language has been included in the national curriculum. I say so because there is the American Sign Language, English Sign Language and a variety of Zambian sign languages.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Even Lenje.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, which one will be taught or included in the national curriculum?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the Zambian sign language is the one we have included in the curriculum. There is a dictionary that was written by a very senior professor at the University of Zambia to show the seriousness that Zambia has attached to developing its own sign language. However, like any other language, there is versatility. There are times when you use the English or American Sign Language, but the bottom line is that the Zambian Sign Language is what is included in the curriculum.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place for children whose mother tongue is English or French?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we are very inclusive. Therefore, no portion of the population will be disadvantaged. This is why I laid Appendix 3: Children Whose Local Language is English on the Table. There are measures that we are taking to safeguard the rights of those children. There is no way we can pretend that they do not exist. As you know, we have some international and private schools exclusively for the children you are asking on behalf of. So, I can assure you that that has been taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister clarify to the nation that this policy will inevitably lead to various medium schools such as Tonga, Bemba and Lozi-medium schools, particularly in the urban areas. By saying a child should be taught in a language familiar to him or her, it means the parents will have to look for a medium school in their language. This is the fragmentation we are heading to. Could he clarify that.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I have endeavoured to be as clear as I can on this issue. I have defined what we mean by familiar local language. I said the definition should not be outside the seven local official languages that are currently being used. Therefore, all the seven local languages have been zoned and there is one language for each zone. That is the clarification I wanted to give the professor.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, Zambians have mingled and intermarried, especially in the urban areas. Children learn easily in the language of play. In the urban areas, the language of play is English. So, what is so local about Zambian languages in urban areas?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is a familiar argument. At one time, I was privileged to conduct an international research on that subject matter and, just to convince my fellow researchers, we went to Kalingalinga Primary School, Nkwazi Primary School and other schools. We waited until the children went on break. We then sat there quietly and listened to the children. The language issue was very clear. The children spoke Chinyanja while playing football. The picture might not have changed quite a lot because the research was conducted just four years ago. Nothing is cast in stone. This is an assessment which can be reviewed, but I can assure this august House that the benefits will be greater than the benefits we would derive from forcing children into the other direction. In future, when funds permit, I am looking forward to a situation where the mother tongue can be used in schools. However, we have not reached that far and the Constitution does not allow it. So, we are where we are because there are good reasons for us to advance this agenda.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, when I was in Grade 1, the medium of instruction was English.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Yes.

Dr Kaingu: Sub A.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: In Sub A and B, we used the local languages. Grade 1, …

Dr Kaingu: Standard 1.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: In Standard 1, we switched to English, and I have been convinced that the system that we went through helps the children and the nation to be united and speak a language that is universal, which is the English language. The Tanzanians went through the process that you are undertaking, hon. Minister. They introduced Kiswahili at a stage …

Ms Kapata: Question!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, allow me to speak.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No. Your introductory statement is too long. What is your question?

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Tanzania has now gone back to teaching English from Grade 1.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of procedure, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Somebody is rising on a point of procedure for the second time. Points of order should be on procedure and now the hon. Member is trying to beat my ruling by raising a point of procedure. Hon. Member for Keembe, you may continue.

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that your programme and the entire process is against the Constitution, would you not want to go back and review the whole process and amend the Constitution before you go ahead?

Mr Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! GBM, GBM!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am perplexed by the contribution of the hon. Member for Keembe who is aware that this programme has been on for years and with the blessings of the Cabinet in which he sat. Let me also say that the example of Tanzania that he has given is not quite the same thing as what we are doing here. Tanzania taught in Kiswahili up to university. Here, we are saying, for us to buttress the learning of our learners, it is important that we do not force them to learn in an alien language from Grade 1. I am a product of a parallel system. I do not know whether you are as old as I am or younger but, I guess, if you learnt in English, then you must be younger.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, Sub A and B, which were pre-grades, were conducted in local languages. Grades 1 and 2 were also in local languages. We only started learning English in Standard 3.

Interruptions

Dr Phiri: That is correct. Now, we want the children to learn in a local language for four years. However, at Grade 2, people’s favourite language, English, will be taught as a subject and then it takes over at Grade 5 as the lingua franca for teaching. Therefore, we must agree with the Government that this is the correct way of doing things. If some people here were privileged to learn in English from Grade 1 to Form 5, they were not typical of a Zambian pupil. They were a privileged lot. As I said, we have taken care of the privileged. We are not going to forget about them because they exist. We have set up ways of how we can work with the private and international schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, this Government is notorious for implementing programmes …

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Yes, ‘notorious’ is an English word which means negative …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Yes, it is an English word just like the others that are unparliamentary. That word also falls under that category. Perhaps, you can use another word.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the Government is stubborn in the sense that it usually implements reforms even before putting the basic minimum requirements in place. We are still grappling with the problem of pupils who cannot go to secondary school because of the Government implementing a programme without finishing the basic needs.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, ask your question.

Mr Hamudulu: The Government wants to do the same with the programme under discussion. What is wrong with putting in place the basics before embarking on this new reform? Teaching and learning aids must be put in place before implementing this reform. Why is the Government in a hurry?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in one vein, our colleagues on your left are lamenting the high failure rate of school children while, in another, they are asking why we have not finished with the basics before implementing the reforms. Who said the language policy in schools is not one of the basics they are talking about? It is an essential ingredient for us to move forward in terms of the quality of education that we want to provide. There is no need to have apprehensions over this. After all, local languages will make our children real Zambians if they are proud citizens.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: We should not be afraid of murmurings from some sectors of society. This reform is not meant to have a particular language take over as the official language.

Interruptions

Dr Phiri: I am hearing those voices. For the sake of the children who think in their language, we should allow them to become great scientists. We have seen children between the ages of one and six playing on the street using a local language, without the support of dad or mum. We have seen them invent kites and make wire cars while using the local languages. Why should we suddenly tell them that their languages are rubbish when they enter Grade 1 and ask them to start learning another language? That is a cruel way to treat fellow human beings.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Let us wake up, Zambia, and help our children move forward. In 1964, Zambia was at the same level of development as South Korea, China, India and Japan. Today, these countries have moved forward in terms of development, but Zambia is stagnant. What is the major reason? It is what they call sanguage or language.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

____________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, may I get a comment from His Honour the Vice-President on the u-turn by his Government, through the Head of State …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, is the u-turn on the Constitution-making process by the Government, through the Head of State, a clear indication that it is carelessly handling the affairs of this country?

Mr Deputy Speaker: There will be a ministerial statement on this next week. I think it is only fair that we first allow the hon. Minister to issue that statement, since we ordered him to do so, before we start discussing that matter. So, I will not ask His Honour the Vice-President to answer that question.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has stood on the Floor of this House and made several pronouncements regarding the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road. Can he speak with clarity, today, and indicate to the people of Lukulu, for once, when his Government intends to tar this road. May he be categorical so that people can hear it from the second most powerful man in the land.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, asking that question is becoming a tradition in this House. I will tell the hon. Member of Parliament what I have always said. He should come to my office so that we can have a look at the document on the plans for the construction of road infrastructure. We can also have a word with the Road Development Agency (RDA) and get the accurate information on the matter. Thereafter, he can convey it to the people of Lukulu East.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, every year, our schools offload hundreds and thousands of school dropouts onto the streets, thereby increasing the number of jobless people in the country. What plans does the Government have for these youths?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, first of all, the education system is being beefed up. We are trying to make the pyramid less steep so that we properly educate most of the people who go to school. We have non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and Government campaigns against child marriage and teacher abuse of children. We also have schools being built all over the place. First of all, we are trying to produce an educated country where people cannot just suffer because nobody wants unskilled labour anymore.

Sir, on the demand side, if you like, we are also striving by building roads and attracting foreign investment to create enough jobs to take this tide of new labour that is coming onto the market. At least, we are directing our efforts towards that, but it is very difficult because we inherited a big backlog and we have a high population growth rate as well. So, I think the hon. Member will have to do with that as an answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to tell the people of Zambezi East and the nation at large what language zoning is supposed to be for Zambezi East.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that question was put to the hon. Minister of Education …

Hon. Opposition Members: But he did not answer.

The Vice-President: … and he said they would be zoned according to …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: … local languages. I realise there are some people from Zambezi West who are residing in Zambezi East on some sort of arrangement with the Lunda, but can common sense not solve the problem, Madam …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … Member of Parliament, or do we need a formal solution? Does common sense not suffice to solve the problems of Zambezi at this very basic level?

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. What I am not sure of is whether that is part of His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to stand on this point of order and it is typically a procedural point of order where hon. Members on your left are expected to play their full role of providing oversight on the Executive.

Sir, after the ministerial statement that was issued by the hon. Minister of Education, it became clear that the issue of language is an emotive one and we are all in agreement on this. The hon. Minister ducked the question that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East and called it political. It, therefore, compelled the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East to push her agenda further by graduating the question to His Honour the Vice-President, expecting to get a correct answer. I am sure the Chair has what it takes for the hon. Members on your left to get meaningful and useful answers from the Executive.

Is the Executive, therefore, in order to continue ducking important questions such as the question of language in Zambezi East which we all know created a lot of kafwafwa in Zambezi to a point where a school was closed, and to have the Executive continue to say this is a political question?

Sir, are they in order to continue not being held accountable to the hon. Members on your left who are representing the people and executing their function?

I need a serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is, taking into cognisance the fact that I had stopped points of order at some point, the hon. Member is raising a point of order now which is really not in accordance with our rules of procedure. However, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Can you file in a question and it can be answered at an appropriate time.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, both the governments that were there before you, that is, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and United National Independence Party (UNIP), always took care of the Kalomo/Kabanga/Mapatizya Road where amethyst is mined. Since the PF Government took over Government, they have not worked on that road. His Honour the Vice-President, why is your Government so unwilling to work on that road?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether, like the hon. Member said, we are unwilling to work on the road. There is the …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

The Vice-President: … Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project and other programmes. I presume the hon. Questioner has had a look at these programmes and has seen that his road has been left out and has made representations to, for example, the RDA about the prioritisation of the roads. If he provides that information, I can do something about it. I cannot answer from the blues why this road appears not to be prioritised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, may I know whether the costs of consumer goods, which are seemingly increasing, are as a result of factors such as the exchange rate. What is the Government doing about it?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I want to steer a little bit clear of the general problem of the exchange rates because there is a question coming up after the Vice-President’s Question Time from Hon. Mwiimbu. His name is printed here …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … so I do not expect a point of order on it.

Mr Speaker, I want to make a point. The rand has weakened considerably against the Zambian kwacha in the last eighteen months. We used to pay K700 pre-rebased for 1 ZAR. We now pay only K500, but the prices of commodities in South African shops, here, like Game Stores, Shoprite …

Mr Sampa: Pick n Pay.

The Vice-President: … and furniture shops have not come down. They should have come down by 30 per cent, if the economics are true, because they are being made in South Africa. South Africa has an export drive based upon lowering the value of its currency. It is doing it and we are still paying the same price. In Zambia, we have to start looking after our own welfare. We are a country in which people just come, make a lot of money, go away …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … and comeback again to make more money. It is not only true in the retail industry, but also in the banking sector and other areas such as construction.

Sir, I have written to all these chain stores and supermarkets and asked them for an explanation on why there seems to be complete rigidity in the price levels. Prices of the same items are double what they are in South Africa. For instance, you buy a bottle of water in Johannesburg for so many rands, but you buy it at the same number of kwacha here, and yet K1 equals to 2 ZAR. You somehow get it at double the value.

Mr Speaker, you can take a plane down to Johannesburg to go shopping for the month and come back and make a profit. That is how extreme the situation is. We do not expect to get much co-operation from the people who are making money, but this is an important issue which we are looking into. I am sure we, on both sides of the House, are completely united on this topic.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask His Honour the Vice-President whether the Government will start the programme of buying cotton from small-scale farmers this year as he promised in 2012 when he was in Chama.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yes, we have a price stabilisation fund and we will be buying cotton but judiciously. We do not want to end up like we did with the National Agricultural Marketing Board (NAMBOARD) or like we might end up with the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) if we are not careful, as the buyer of everything when we are unable to actually handle it.

Sir, I accept that the cotton industry has been through a bad patch. However, the problem is that the price is internationally determined. It is not determined by local factors. We are taking steps to try to stabilise it, but we cannot go too far.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, with the number of pending by-elections in the country, when is the Government going to start printing ballot papers at home to serve on the huge cost of printing them abroad?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we promised that we shall be ready for this in the next general elections.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: There are issues of security and we do not want to be accused of printing the Xs on the ballot papers or such evils. At the moment, there is no immediate expectation that we will print our own ballot papers, but I agree that it is getting a little odd for a modern democracy to be unable to print its own ballot papers and have to get them from South Africa or Britain.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the road carnage on the Great North Road is a source of concern. A lot of people have lost their lives. I want to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what the Government is doing to address the dangerous scenario obtaining on that road.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a timely question. There was an accident just this morning where a bus smashed into a lorry that was coming from the north, just outside Mazabuka. At the first count, there were thirteen people dead, but the number is likely to be much higher than that. So, it is an apt question and one which worries all of us very much.

Sir, there are various approaches to addressing this issue. One is a provincial-based approach in which the provincial administration has to control this habit of getting on a bus somewhere in Mpulungu and driving it all the way to Livingstone without stopping or stopping only, perhaps, for a quick tujilijili in order to keep awake, which is a suicidal undertaking.

 Sir, aircraft crews are not allowed to work in the comfort and the low stress environment of an aircraft for more than 10 hours on the trot. In Zambia, we have cases of bus drivers driving for much longer than that and killing themselves and their passengers at the same time.

Mr Speaker, we have to decide, and I think it is becoming of increasing urgency, exactly what policy we are going to pursue on this subject. Scandinavian countries have managed to get road accident deaths down to a matter of counting on a single hand for a year’s accidents. Here, we are still running in the thousands. It is ridiculous. We cannot afford that much carnage either morally or economically.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the people of Milenge would like you to confirm what they have heard that your wife is a member of one of the committees on the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) Board. Considering your local and international experience, do you not think that this is a matter of conflict of interest as regards the concept of good corporate governance? Are you proud of that?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, although that is already in the last sitting‘s verbatim reports of the Vice-President’s Question Time, I will answer the question again. I said then, and will say it again, that we need the best people in the best jobs. We need people who understand the jobs and are committed to them. There is no conflict of interest. What is my interest in ZAWA? What is my personal interest that is in conflict with my wife being there?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Beebe!

The Vice-President: My wife is a volunteer. She is working there voluntarily.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Excuse me.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the people on your left seem to think there is some subtle form of remuneration going on. There is nothing. It is a commitment to an area she knows a lot about. She used to work for the United Nations International Children’s Fund (UNICEF), but was asked by the United Nations (UN) to vacate her job when I became Vice-President because of potential conflicts of interest. So, she is doing voluntary work as she is with, for example, the Under-Seventeen Ladies Football Team. She is working very hard to raise money for them and send them off …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … and we are not pocketing one ngwee either directly or indirectly in this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Ema Vice President (VP), aya!

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, the population growth in cities has become a challenge, especially in Lusaka which has 2.5 million people. May I find out from His Honour the Vice-President if there are any plans to depopulate the cities.

Mr Mukanga: That is why we are creating new districts.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, an East European terrorist called – what was his name? The man who went all over Europe – Genghis Khan, had a way of depopulating cities.

Laughter

The Vice-President: He used to beat a very big drum and send people ahead to say that this is the most violent man ever born and he is coming tomorrow. When he eventually got to the city, there was nobody there because they had moved onto the next city. He actually managed to conquer the whole of Europe without nearly a single casualty because he made up stories that frightened people from staying around.

Laughter

The Vice-President: We cannot apply the Genghis Khan formula.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: We are using the districts that we have created.

The Vice-President: We cannot send people out of the country or into new cities. We cannot, for instance, build a city somewhere on Kafue Road and tell everybody to go there. We have to struggle with managing urban development. For that, we have to raise our gross domestic product (GDP), get funding for it and improve management. We have to do what all the other countries that are struggling with urbanisation and its consequences are doing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, chiefs’ palaces are Government institutions. If you were to visit chiefs at the moment, you would find that most of their palaces are not easily accessible because of the poor road network. May I know whether the Government has any plans to upgrade roads leading to chiefs’ palaces?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, just as we have plans to make sure that all chiefs in Zambia are plugged into the electronic network, so have we plans to plug them into the road network.  However, there are several hundred chiefs spread out over an area the size of Texas. So, this cannot be done overnight as the previous Government discovered and as you, if you ever come to power, will discover. Interesting as that may be, you may be retired by that time, but the ones who will come after you will learn that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President how the Government has performed in the fight against corruption from the time the PF formed Government in comparison with the previous MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will ask the hon. Minister of Justice to bring some statistics and make a statement to this House because I do not have them. However, I know that there has been, in the early stages up to last year, an increase in the number of cases in all categories. That is to say, in the cases reported, attended to and those in court.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, there is a company called Impala that has been given a licence to operate its rolling stock on the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Line (TAZARA). This has raised stress levels among TAZARA employees at Chozi as well as Mpika and Kapiri Mposhi as regards what will happen to their jobs. May I find out from His Honour the Vice-President what exactly the Government is trying to do about TAZARA.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the discussions are at a very early stage. There are negotiations with the Government. There is no Impala or any other company that has been given a contract to operate rolling stocks on TAZARA. The House will be fully informed when some conclusion has been reached in these discussions.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, what is traditional about the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road. I ‘were’ invited on the Floor of this House to go and see His Honour the Vice-President at his office and I went there. I ‘were’ asked to call …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. I ‘were’ ridiculed …

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: … by some people who said that I could not go to see His Honour the Vice-President. How are we going to solve the problem of the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road? I ‘were’ invited to go and see His Honour the Vice-President and I did that.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, what is traditional about this question?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when I say it is traditional, I mean that there is not a single Vice-President’s Question Time that goes past, without that question. Therefore, it has become a tradition, and it seems a pity to spoil it by answering it. I think that I have mentioned before that with so much road expenditure in the Western Province, give us a chance to complete the Mongu/Kalabo Road, and then there will be something there. We can then think about coming through Lukulu to creep up on Kalabo from the back.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President explain why the hon. Minister of Health is everywhere, launching the construction of the 650 health posts, instead of doing it at once at national level in order to cut down on costs?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we believe, as the previous Government did, in hon. Ministers going out into the field, visiting development projects and listening to problems. We do not want to sit in Lusaka and simply launch stuff that you cannot even see in thin air.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, today is the 21st of February, 2014, and there are some areas of this country that have not yet received fertiliser for this season.

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President tell us how he rates his Government in the agriculture sector since it came to power?

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are always places where it is alleged that fertiliser has not reached or been distributed. As far as I am aware, the total quantity of fertiliser, both basal and top dressing, is the highest for this season that we are in now than it has ever been before, including in the entire twenty years of the former Government that you are trying to compare us with. In most places, it arrived in good time and the crop is looking very good.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that the disbursement of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and its implementation in some councils is problematic? If he is aware, what immediate interventions has the Government put in place to correct the situation?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I plead that questions, which are appropriately addressed to specific ministries, be along the guidelines you have given in recent days and  be directed to the hon. Ministers as questions for urgent answer. I, obviously, do not have with me nearly as much information on this question as does the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

I thank you, Sir.

   Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the streets of Lusaka are deplorable and filthy and you have always defended this. Is there anything that you are going to do, as the Government, to remedy this situation?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is an inter-party discussion. Since it is news, let me say, for example, that there is a planning process going on between a company in Johannesburg, which does the recycling of glass, tin, and plastics, and the councils in Zambia and the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). We are interested in getting our rubbish recycled, which can make it a profitable undertaking rather than simply taking it and pushing it into that big thing – what is it called?

Hon. Government Members: Dump site.

The Vice-President: No, it is not called a dump site. Anyway, we are developing a profit-making solution to this problem.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the Republican President, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, indicated that most Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament are not useful. Actually, he said that they are useless …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: … and, a while ago, one of the most senior members in the PF indicated that by and large, the PF is a dead party.  For this country to have useful hon. Members of Parliament in the Ruling Party, and to have a ruling party which is ‘alive’, when is this Government going to resign, thereby protecting the taxpayer?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I recall that sometime back, I ruled that that question was too personal but, later on, it came to my notice that the person who was asked the question would have loved to answer it. Therefore, in light of the repetition of this question, I think that it is only fair for me to ask His Honour the Vice-President to answer it.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I once promised the hon. Member for Muchinga that I would think about resigning and he tried to ask me what I thought about it. Unfortunately, I have had no time to think about this subject …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … because I have been far too busy with other things. Therefore, I am not planning to resign, and I cannot imagine anybody …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … in our party or this Parliament being anxious to resign either. Therefore, I think that being occasionally shouted at by the Head of State is a hazard which everybody who joins the PF is cognisant of.

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh!

The Vice-President: You are going to be held to account, you are going to be made to work hard and if you think that you are working hard, you will be made to work twice as hard. That is the way that we operate. That is our style.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is my answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, at a rally in Katuba, the hon. Member of Parliament for a constituency in Luapula was castigated for failure to visit his constituency. I would like to find out whether it is appropriate or not for hon. Members who have been called certain names, which are unparliamentary, to also use laptops and Facebook to communicate with their constituencies.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, what is wrong with them doing that?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not understand that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, His Honour …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your time is up.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

BAN ON TRADE IN PORK AND PORK PRODUCTS

333. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would officially announce the lifting of the ban on the trade in pork and pork products which was imposed following the outbreak of the African Swine Fever (ASF) in 2013.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I cannot hear the hon. Minister just as the person who asked the question cannot hear him.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the lifting of the ban that was imposed on the movement of pigs, pork products and pork by-products into and out of Lusaka Province will come into effect, starting Monday, 24th February, 2014.

Sir, the ban was necessitated by the outbreak of the ASF in Lusaka Province which was reported to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock on 9th November, 2013.

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that the ASF has been contained in the areas where outbreaks had been reported in Lusaka Province. These include Makeni, Kasupe, Chamba Valley and Chongwe.

Sir, the surveillance and monitoring of the ASF in Lusaka Province are ongoing. So far, approximately 16,000 pigs have been slaughtered and about K5 million has been spent on compensating the farmers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the PF has a preponderance of not addressing themselves to questions that we ask. My question was: When will the Government officially communicate to the processors of pork products in order for the citizens to enjoy their right to economic activities as enshrined in the Constitution? Article 112(b) states:

“ … the State shall endeavour to create an economic environment which shall encourage individual initiative and self reliance among the people and promote private investment.”

Mr Speaker, when will the Government officially inform the people who process pork that the ban has been lifted so that the people who have been holding onto the pigs can offload them onto the market? This is because they are being denied their much-needed income for their day-to-day needs. The same way we get our salaries from here is the same way that they get their means of living through the sale of pigs. I need an answer from the hon. Minister.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, an official announcement will be made on Monday, 24th February, 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, on Monday, 17th February, 2014, there was an advertisement for employment on Page 12 of the Zambia Daily Mail that was put up by an organisation called Scaling up Family Planning (SUFP) Programme in Zambia. It was looking for a District Outreach Co-ordinator for Chavuma District. In that advertisement, apart from outlining what is required of this co-ordinator, the qualifications that are required and outlined in this paper are a Bachelor’s Degree or Professional Diploma in a health-related field, Social Science, Psychology and Community Development. This candidate is supposed to work with the ministries of Health and Community Development, Mother and Child Health in Chavuma District.

Mr Speaker, my bone of contention is, amongst the desirable qualifications, knowledge of English and Bemba are mandatory, and the word mandated has been underlined.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: English and what?

Mr Lufuma: English and Bemba.

Mr Livune: In Chavuma?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is this Government in order to allow …

Hon. Opposition Members: Nonsense.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: … language hegemony by promoting the use of a known language in Chavuma when the language that is spoken there is Luvale?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think you should file in a question because …

Mr Lufuma: I would like to lay the paper on the …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am making a ruling on your point of order.

You should file in a question in the Office of the Clerk. I am not expected to make a ruling on that point of order. I think that the person you are asking will be able to respond to it, but he can only do so if you file in a question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Monze Central continue, please.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, considering the publications in the media pertaining to the alleged outbreak of the ASF in the Southern Province, I would like to find out whether there is actually an outbreak of the ASF in the Southern Province. If so, will the Government also consider compensating the pig farmers in the Southern Province like it did in Lusaka Province?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, firstly, let me confirm that there is an outbreak of the ASF in the Southern Province. The results from the Central Laboratory Research Institute have confirmed that among the areas that are affected, is His Royal Highness Chief Macha’s area.
 
Sir, as required by law, the measures that we take to control such an outbreak include compensating the farmers whose pigs we have to slaughter. So, what was done to the farms that were affected in Lusaka Province will also apply to the affected farms in the Southern Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, now that the ASF has been contained in Lusaka, sadly, there is an outbreak elsewhere. I would like to find out what measures the ministry is putting in place to contain the outbreaks so that we allow the pork business to flourish in Zambia.

Mr Kazabu: Sir, I can confirm that in the case of Lusaka Province, the outbreak has been contained although there are some areas like Makeni where we are still picking up some isolated cases. 
 
Mr Speaker, one of the measures that have been taken is to restrict the movement of pigs from one area to another. Secondly, we are reinforcing the operations of the check points like the one in Kafue just before the bridge if you are coming from the Southern Province. In fact, the hon. Members of the House may be interested to know that only yesterday, two trucks loaded with pigs were impounded at that check point. We are on the ground and appropriate measures are being taken. Hopefully, we will get rid of the disease someday.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, how much money is the ministry paying per affected pig since this is an on-going exercise?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we are compensating the farmers at a price of K13 per kg live weight. That figure was arrived at after the necessary consultations were made with various stakeholders.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that there is an outbreak of the ASF in Mbabala and one of the measures being undertaken is restricting the movement of pigs. May I know the points which these pigs are restricted from crossing, considering that the Southern Province is bigger than Mbabala? Which areas are the animals not supposed to cross?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the immediate measure that we have taken is to quarantine the areas around His Royal Highness Chief Macha’s area. The suspected sources of the outbreak in the Southern Province are Nyawa in Kazungula District or Chikanta in Kaloma District.

Sir, the reason is simply that Chief Nyawa’s area is close to the National Park and there could be some interaction between the warthogs and pigs. We are sensitising the farmers on good animal husbandry practices as opposed to having free-range pigs. It is very difficult to control the ASF in a situation where there are free-range pigs. One of the measures we are taking is to sensitise people who rear pigs.

I thank you, Sir.

DEPRECIATION OF KWACHA

334. Mr Mwiimbu asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) why the value of the kwacha had continued to depreciate against major currencies such as the United States Dollar despite assurances by the Government to stabilise it; and

(b) what measures the Government was taking to curb further depreciation.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, this issue has been addressed in the House on two occasions. The first time was in February, 2013 and the second time in December, 2013. On both occasions, I made clear …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister cannot be heard.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, on both occasions, I made it clear …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that this issue has been addressed in the House on two occasions. The first time was in February, 2013 and the second time in December, 2013. On both occasions, I made clear the reasons behind the depreciation of the exchange rate.

Sir, I indicated in my earlier statement to the House that exchange rates are prices of currencies in terms of other currencies. I also indicated that they are a function of many composite factors, including the state of the economy, economic trends in the international market, the supply and demand conditions as well as the unquantifiable factors such as market sentiments and perceptions.

Sir, I wish to indicate, again, that the continued depreciation of the kwacha is reflective of these sentiments and perceptions, especially in our economy that is yet to attain financial deepening given the small number of large banks.

Mr Speaker, as to what measures the Government is taking to curb further depreciation, the current Exchange Rate Policy of the Government is to have a liberal exchange rate regime where forces of demand and supply are the major determinants of the price of the kwacha in relation to major convertible currencies, including the dollar.

Sir, we, therefore, do not control the exchange rates, neither do we have control over what the rate will be. The exchange rate in Zambia will, at any given time, reflect the movements in the fundamentals that I have highlighted in my response to part (a) of the Question. However, as part of our role of ensuring smooth business planning, we smoothen wide short-term fluctuations through modest participation in the market by the Bank of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the most sustainable way we can have a relatively stable currency and avoid a depreciating trend is by ensuring resilient external sector growth through increased export capacity, particularly in the non-copper sector, which is not overly prone to changes in the prices on the international market. To this extent, the Government has given appropriate consideration to diversification by growing the non-copper sector such as manufacturing, tourism and agriculture. This commitment is seen in the massive investment by the Government in infrastructure development, particularly that related to transport and energy, as this facilitates growth in the areas I have just referred to.

Mr Speaker, as a result of this intervention, non-copper export or what is normally referred to as non-traditional export, has, over the past few years, averaged 41.9 per cent. Going forward, it is our resolve to sustain and surpass this level to ensure resilience of the economy, including the exchange rate.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as I ask this question, I would like you to invoke the provisions obtaining in the Westminster Jurisdiction which we follow so that I be allowed to make a preamble to my question.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance, on the Floor of this House and at various fora, informed the nation that a number of measures had been taken to ensure that the kwacha is resilient against foreign exchange transactions. That is on record. We further introduced foreign exchange regulations with a view to ensuring that the kwacha stabilises against other currencies. When he was presenting his Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance made a statement on the measures that had been taken to protect the value of the kwacha.

Sir, is the hon. Minister telling the nation that the measures that the Government has taken have failed and collapsed in view of the melting of the kwacha? Yesterday, I was in the bank for thirty minutes. While I was there, the exchange rate was K5.7 per United States Dollar, but before I left the bank, the kwacha fell to K5.83. Is the Budget which we passed in this House going to be honoured, considering that most of the commodities that we use in this country are bought outside the country using foreign exchange?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, currency rates in any country fluctuate. All currencies, including the major currencies such as the Pound Sterling, the euro or the dollar vary from day to day. If Hon. Jack Mwiimbu has time, he could just visit the channel called Bloomberg or the Current Non-Convertible Debentures (CNDC) and he will see that the fluctuations are almost hourly. I share his anxiety about the depreciation of the kwacha. If the kwacha depreciates substantially, it is inflationary because the prices of commodities that are imported are a function of the landed price multiplied by the prevailing exchange rate. A depreciating kwacha tends to send the prices of imports up and the Government is amongst the biggest losers due to the depreciating kwacha. The figures for servicing external debt were given. Therefore, we will have to find more kwacha as cover for the payment of external debt.

Sir, there is also a flipside of the effects of the depreciating of the kwacha. The depreciating kwacha is of benefit to the exporters in the mining industry, particularly in the agriculture industry. The balance is difficult to determine. We would have to research and weigh the disadvantages vis-à-vis the advantages.

Mr Speaker, there is no way the Government will prescribe the exchange rates unless we go back to fixing these things. There are all these difficulties that we encountered in the past. The kwacha will strengthen or stabilise as the economy grows. The only way you can have a favourable exchange rate is to grow the economy. Some of the measures that we have taken are that all importers should bring back their foreign exchange earnings before they can use them. This will ultimately impact favourably on the exchange rate, but there is also what is called a time-lag effect. Time elapses between when you introduce the measures and when they begin to take effect.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, it is quite sad to listen to what the hon. Minister is saying. I feel that the question that I asked in February, 2013, which he referred to, was belittled. In his answer then, the hon. Minister told me that they were going to try to stabilise the exchange rate at K4.8. Is the hon. Minister seeing that actually business in this country is coming to a standstill? Things are not moving in terms of the distribution of goods and services. Last year, £1, which was equivalent to K8.2, rose to K9.3 within two months.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Senga Hill is just being melodramatic. No business has come to a standstill, but there will be fluctuations in the exchange rate. When His Honour the Vice-President was answering some of the questions in the context of the exchange rate, he made reference to the rand. Before the kwacha was re-dominated, we used to pay K700 for a rand. After the re-domination and given the state of the economy in South Africa, the rand is now only worth 52 ngwee. This is just an example. I am quoting the nearest example to the changes in the exchange rates. The exchange rates will never stay stable in any country. All the currencies fluctuate, reflecting different productive conditions that obtain in the various economies of the world.

 Sir, what we cannot do to appreciate the kwacha is allow the Central Bank to put in more dollars in order to upgrade the kwacha because that is of no value. Our exchange reserves are very limited and we do not want to give a lavish view to the speculators for them to take away even the limited foreign exchange reserves that we have. So, interventions by the Government via the Central Bank in the exchange market will be limited. However, as we work hard to grow the economy, the kwacha will find a reasonable level. I think that market-determined exchange rates make sense. Misdirected interventions backed by more zeal than sense do not help the cause of any economy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for what I term his optimism regarding the fact that all currencies fluctuate.

Sir, the growth of an economy, which he referred to is, by and large, a function of productivity and fiscal policies. Among the measures that the PF put in place to protect the strength of the kwacha was Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 33.

Mr Speaker, owing to the fact that currencies fluctuate and the Zambian Kwacha has been fluctuating in a negative sense in that it has been losing its value at a very rapid and frightening rate, I would like to find out the role of SI No. 33 in terms of protecting the strength of the kwacha at the moment.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to say that the observations made by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central are very valid. So, I will not take any issue except to say that the various SIs that are in place, that is, SI No. 33 and 35 are still in force and, to some extent, their effects are quite salutary.

 However, Sir, I think more needs to be done. It is not just enough to institute certain regulatory or control measures. More must be done to get the economy in top gear. One would hope that sectors like agriculture in Zambia will expand to their potential and that going forward, as a country and Government, we will go beyond maize production in agriculture so that we can utilise the greatest potential. This is because there is an increase in the non-traditional exports such as soya beans, which was contributing a lot to the economy. Cotton was contributing substantially until we underpaid the cotton producers. As you saw, the production of cotton in 2013 was only 48 per cent of what it was in 2012. So, there was regression on account of just the under payment of the cotton producers. If the cotton producers can feel that they are getting a fair and reasonable recompense for their efforts, they will increase the cotton production. These are the areas that should grow the economy. We should push up things where there is a lot of potential. I have made reference to cotton because it is one of the commodities doing particularly well on the International Commodity Market, so is soya beans and coffee whose potential we have not fully developed. This country exports less than 5,000 tonnes of coffee, while for countries like Uganda and Kenya, their mainstay is coffee and tea and they have made a fortune out of these commodities. However, in Zambia, we cannot even push the production of those commodities for some reasons. We are more bogged down in futile politics than in …

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: … generating conditions of production.

So, Mr Speaker, the kwacha level is not alarming. The exchange rate should be seen from both sides, that is, the price rise occasion by lower exchange kwacha price, which pushes up the cost of inputs and the gain arising from the depreciation of the kwacha experienced by industries which are exporting. I have given the Government view of the depreciation of the kwacha. The Government gets an increase in the tax revenues which have their origin in international trade. So, that is a gain. On the other side, when we have to repay inevitably the external loans, then, we have to find more kwacha because of the depreciation.

So, it is a very delicate balance, Mr Speaker. I think that the best thing is not to be too excited about the exchange rates. I have said that the exchange rate of the kwacha is simply the price of the kwacha in terms of other currencies and there are many factors that influence and impact on the exchange rate, particularly the state of the economy.

I thank you, Sir.

 Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, firstly, I suppose what is worrying many people is the fast rate at which the kwacha is depreciating within a short period. Secondly, it is now at a level where it was in the midst of the 2008 and 2009 world economic crisis. In other words, there was an economic crisis then.

Mr Speaker, what I do not seem to understand is what the hon. Minister said about the external sector of Zambia doing well. In other words, non-traditional exports are rising fast, which is true. I have not heard of a crisis in the copper sector. So, that seems to be doing well. On top of that, my colleague mentioned about the SIs that have been put in place to protect the value of the kwacha. So, if the external sector is doing well, then, there are also administrative measures to protect the value of the kwacha. What, then, is driving this depreciation that we are seeing?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Liuwa has just given the basis upon which we should predicate our moves to try to get the exchange rate of the kwacha in the right frame.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are many factors that can contribute to the fall of the kwacha or rather the rise in the exchange rate.  

Hon. Minister, would you rule out the possibility of money-laundering activities among these factors?

Mr Chikwanda: No, I would not rule it out, but it would be a very small element. 

Of course, there is also the issue of speculators. Speculation also has an influence in the level of our currency. This is why, as the Government, we do not think it is prudent to intervene in the market by putting in so many dollars just to upgrade the value of the kwacha because that would just diminish our limited reserves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I totally agree that the exchange rates worldwide fluctuate, reflecting the strength or weakness of an economy of a particular country. What is more important, however, is not the exchange rate, but its stability. 

Hon. Minister, you indicated that you are happy and that there is no need for worry. Are you so comfortable with the rate at which the kwacha has been depreciating that we should not do anything about it?

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, are you comfortable with the rate at which the kwacha is depreciating?

Mr Chikwanda: No, Sir, I am not comfortable, but I am not very worried either.

I thank the hon. Member for Kasempa for properly contextualising the issues.

I thank you, Sir. 
BOARDING SCHOOL IN CHASEFU

335. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) when construction of a boarding secondary school in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency would commence; and

(b) what the timeframe for the construction of the school was.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the construction of a boarding secondary school in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency commenced in August, 2013 and the contractor has since been paid the advance for mobilisation. 

Mr Speaker, the contract period for the project is seventy-seven weeks from August, 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, what do we expect from the description of Phase I by the contractor?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, with regard to the target for Phase I, which consists of much of the works to be done, we expect hostels or boarding facilities, classrooms, ablution blocks and a kitchen.

 External works are expected to be carried out in the other phase.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want to be guided by the House.

Sir, you have guided that hon. Members of Parliament must come to the Floor of this House with researched materials. I am a regular visitor of the Hansard from its novelty to date and it is clear that hon. Members of Parliament must research before they can open their mouths in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Dr Kaingu: Sir, is it procedural for the House to ask hon. Members of Parliament to ask points of order contemporaneously. I want to be guided, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: It is procedural.

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, you may proceed.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, we hear that the Government is broke and most of the projects will not proceed because of a lack of money.

I would like the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, whom I love so much and is doing a good job, …

Laughter

Mr Muchima: … to assure the nation that there is money to continue with the construction of schools. Can you assure us, hon. Minister?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I do not agree with what the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i has said about the Government being broke. To demonstrate our commitment, we started the construction of thirty-five secondary schools last year. Contractors for these schools have already been paid the advances for mobilisation.

Sir, I want to encourage hon. Members of Parliament to crosscheck what we are saying when they visit their constituencies. They should go to the sites and see whether major works are being carried out. If there were no works being carried out in November or December, I am sure that by the time they are next visiting their constituencies, the contractors will have accelerated their works.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have an interest in Chasefu Constituency.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: I want to find out from the hon. Minister …

The Deputy Chairperson: You intend to contest the seat?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: With the support of the Chair, of course.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I just want the hon. Minister …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Monze Central in order to declare to the House that he has got particular interest in Chasefu Constituency without going into details, considering that we know that the constituency is ably represented.

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Thou shalt not draw the Chair into your debate.

The hon. Member for Monze Central may continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Sir, I just want to get assurance from the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, taking into account the issues that were raised on the Floor of this House when we debated the fall of the kwacha vis-à-vis development activities.

Mr Speaker, I want him to state very clearly that this project in a constituency where I have interest, will not fail to take off and will be completed within the stipulated time.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we guarantee that assurance.

The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, either yesterday or today, mentioned that much of the K500 million which was approved by this House will be dedicated to the on-going projects. The hon. Minister has also said repeatedly that this year, no new secondary schools will be constructed. There will only be upgrading which has a different budget line. With this, I can assure Hon. Jack Mwiimbu that we are on course with regard to these projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the contractors at Libonda High School ran away from the site because there was no money. For the past two years, no works have been done. Now that the hon. Minister has categorically stated that his Government is not broke, but swimming in money, can I get an assurance that Libonda High School, which was abandoned by this Government in 2011, will be completed this year. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, you can give a bonus answer.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, just like I have said to Hon. Muchima and Jack Mwiimbu, the bonus answer is that all these projects are ongoing. There is K500 million which is dedicated to the completion of these projects.

 I thank you, Sir.

LUNDAZI/CHAMA ROAD

336. Mr I. Banda asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the Lundazi/Chama Road would be upgraded to bituminous standard;

(b) what the name of the contractor for the project was;

(c) what the cost of the project was;

(d) what the time frame for undertaking the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the upgrading to bituminous standard of the Chama/Lundazi Road shall be procured this year now that the feasibility studies have been completed.

Sir, currently, there is no contractor working on the road as it has not yet been procured. The actual cost will be known once the contract has been awarded. The project is expected to be completed within thirty-six calendar months.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, may I know which month the evaluation and floating it on tender will be done so that the contractor is known and the amount of money that is going to be spent on this project.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the RDA, has started the process of advertising the same road. Once the road has been advertised, then, we will know the time frame for this project.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

  Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, I have very special interest in this road because, as the House maybe aware, this is the road we were using when the vehicle I was travelling in overturned last year. Anyway, we thank God that I am still alive. Could the hon. Minister enlighten the House and the nation on the urgency in the plan for this road because there is a need for the construction of this road to be done expeditiously given its state?

Mr M. H.  Malama: Mr Speaker, the Government is very committed to work on this road. This is the more reason it has just completed the feasibility studies. This shows that we have started the process, are committed and treating it as a matter of urgency.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, just like the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road, the state of the Lundazi/Chama Road gets very bad during the rainy season. What measures have been put in place to do some maintenance work even before the road is upgraded to bituminous standard?

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, we have the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) in all the regions which are mandated to check on some of the roads we are talking about. Therefore, the RRU is going round to inspect the roads which are in a bad state with the view to working on the bad parts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether, in the course of duty, the ministry has considered coming up with the schedule cataloguing all road projects in the country and giving details of the stage at which each of these roads that is worked is for us to reduce on the questions we are asking. From the look of things, you are answering questions from the top of your head to a point where if I had to crosscheck what you are saying, maybe, that would not be the situation on the ground. Would you consider coming up with the schedule of work on all the roads that you are working on.

Mr Malama: Sir, we can provide that information. In fact, we have been publishing the updates in the newspapers.

Mr Speaker, I thank.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he indicated that this project will be completed within thirty-six months. At the same time, he indicated that there is a contraction process that is taking place and the period will be determined after the evaluation of the tender. I would like to find out from how he arrived at the thirty-six months when the tendering process has not been completed.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I indicated to his House that the feasibility studies have been completed. So, we are able to tell the period, especially that we know that it is about 102 km. Therefore, it is very easy to tell.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Mwiimbu: On point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead the House that they are able to determine the work schedule arising from the feasibility study when, in actual fact, the capacity and potential to complete the works is one of the competencies …   

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

We have an able hon. Minister who will answer at an appropriate time.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have not finished raising my point of order. In my language, there is a saying that goes, “Those who are afflicted by the spirit of the hyena make noise even when they are not supposed to make noise.”

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was raising an issue over the answer the hon. Minister is giving that the work schedule should be thirty-six months. Is he telling us that even when a contract is able to finish within one week, he should be given thirty-six months? It depends on the capacity of the contractor. Is he in order to mislead this House on such an issue.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister will clarify that as he answers the question from the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I am very proud to hear that the Government is not broke and that the RRU is going round the country to see the worst damaged roads. I need an assurance on when Zhimbe Road was once visited and maintained, owing to the bad state in which it is in.

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication clarify the point of order raised by Hon. Mwiimbu.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, the information, which I have given, is what I was given by the technocrats who are experts in these issues. So, I am not going to change the statement. The information I have is that once the contractor moves on site, he may be there for three years.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

SECONDARY SCHOOL IN SOLWEZI WEST

337. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether the Government had any plans to construct secondary schools at the following places in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency:

(a) Ifumba;

(b) Lubango; and

(c) Manyama.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Government has no immediate plans to construct secondary schools at Ifumba, Lubango and Manyama in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency due to budgetary limitations. However, funds allowing, the Government may consider building a secondary school at these locations in future if they are considered a priority by the district. The selection of areas where schools are to be built is normally done by the districts after several consultations and taking into account issues of population and distances to other schools.

Sir, in addition to what I have said, it is important for Hon. Mwanza to take advantage of the programme of upgrading primary schools into secondary schools. That can help the people of Ifumba, Lubango and Manyama.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I am …

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to answer my question relating to Zhimbe Road which the RRU has been inspecting? The people of Zhimbe are waiting for the answer.

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that we are dealing with the Lundazi/Chama Road. If you are anxious to raise a question on the Zhimbe Road, please, raise a question.

Hon. Government Members: Long live the Chair.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, my concern is on part (c) of the Question. Manyama is a developing place and the school has enrolled 1,800 pupils. That is a basic school and the Government is telling me that it has no funds. If the Government was serious, how then could it allow the investors to be in Manyama and the North-Western Province without providing the corresponding services in terms of education?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the PF Government is committed. When we said we are upgrading 220 basic schools, we indicated that twenty-two of those schools will be in the North-Western Province. From the information we have from Solwezi, and Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency in particular, two schools have been chosen for upgrading. These are Majimambwe and Mukumbi. So, like I was saying, I have repeatedly told hon. Members of Parliament that with the upgrading of basic schools, he should get involved in the consultation process. So, if Hon. Mwanza is surely of the view that Manyama is supposed to be upgraded, why has he not consulted the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) so that it can be included in the upgrading programme? The question is: Why have we chosen other schools when the hon. Member of Parliament is of the view that Manyama should be one of the schools to be considered for upgrading? My appeal to Hon. Mwanza and the other hon. Members would be that we should seize this opportunity of the 220 basic schools to be upgraded to try to provide education to the needy.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, yesterday, I wanted to know the list of schools that are earmarked for upgrading, and I was referred to the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS). Today, the hon. Minister is giving names of schools to be upgraded. What is difficult about him giving us the names of all the schools rather than sending us to the DEBS who is always threatened by cadres on allegations that he is supporting members of the opposition political parties?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, currently, we are going through the planning process and, like I said yesterday, from the meeting that we had in January with the PEO and DEBS, they will be providing this information to the ministry not later than the end of March, 2014. At that stage, the ministry will be able to share that information with the hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

HOSPITAL FAST-TRACK EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS

338. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would create fast-track emergency departments at hospitals to deal with emergency cases such as victims of accidents.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, in line with the Government’s policy of improving health service delivery, the Government has already commenced the establishment of emergency and trauma centres in all major health facilities.

Sir, a provision for the construction of five trauma centres was made in the 2014 Budget, beginning with Kabwe General Hospital. This programme is part of the Hospital Modernisation Programme and it shall be ongoing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, are you aware that some accident victims die before being attended to due to a lack of fast-track emergency departments at health facilities?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, that explains why we have put in place this intervention. Additionally, we have procured fully-equipped life support ambulances that will be at these hospitals and will be able to provide support to accident victims.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has referred to the fact that the Government has procured ambulances for health facilities, I would like to know when the ambulances are going to be distributed to the various facilities.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we are doing the preliminaries of registration and we will be distributing the ambulances within the next ten days.

I thank you, Sir.

DAMS IN NANGOMA

339. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a) how many dams were constructed in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency, from 2011 to date; and

(b) when the Government would construct more dams in the Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, according to our records, the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development has not constructed any dam in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency in the period referred to in the question. If a suitable site for a dam is found in the constituency, the Government, through my ministry, will plan to construct it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that due to a lack of adequate dams in Nangoma Constituency, most small-scale farmers have failed to rear livestock?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, yes, we are aware that where there are few or no dams, obviously, there will be challenges. However, let me just go through the process of requesting for a dam to be constructed in a constituency. The construction of dams by the ministry is demand driven. The request for a dam to be constructed comes from the needy communities. Such requests are encouraged. I encourage the hon. Member to take note of this in order to enhance the spirit of ownership and responsibility and, most of all, the sustainability of the dam.

Sir, dam construction programmes are usually conducted in collaboration with the beneficiaries. The request for a dam is made through the established structures of governance i.e. resident development committees, councillors, hon. Members of Parliament, district councils and District Commissioners (DAs).

Mr Speaker, through the representatives at the respective districts and provinces, that is, District and Provincial Water Affairs Officers, the requests for a dam are then directed to the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development Headquarters in Lusaka. At this stage, the feasibility assessments are planned for. If the plans are feasible, the dam sites are then planned for survey, design and costing in readiness for possible funding. The budget for the dam is then submitted to the ministry headquarters to solicit funds. This process may take three Budget cycles, that is, from the demand by beneficiaries to commencement of construction. So, that is the procedure.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the procedures that have been outlined. Would the hon. Minister be in a position to kindly duplicate those guidelines for us.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Sir, we are able to do that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

____________

MOTION

LOANS AND GUARANTEES (AUTHORISATION)

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House …

Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is only one Chairperson and I hope we will be guided accordingly. There is no need for people to offer unsolicited assistance.

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, I was saying that I beg to move that the House, in terms of Sections 3 and 15 of the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act, Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia, do authorise the hon. Minister of Finance to increase by the SI:

(a) the maximum amount outstanding at any one time on domestic loans raised within the Republic and payable over a period of not more than one year from K200 million to K13 billion;

(b) the maximum amount outstanding at any one time on domestic loans raised within the Republic and payable over a period of more than one year from K10 million to K20 billion;

(c) the total contingent liability at any one time in respect of guarantees given in terms of Section 14 of the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act, Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia to persons ordinarily resident in Zambia, from K200 million to K2 billion; and

(d) the total contingent liability at any one time in respect of guarantees given in terms of Section 14 of the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act, Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia to persons ordinarily resident outside Zambia from K2 billion to K5 billion.

Mr Speaker, let me start by reminding this august House that under the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act, Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia, the hon. Minister may raise, from time to time, in the Republic and elsewhere …

Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May the hon. Minister be allowed to move the Motion. You cannot raise a point of order at this point.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, before my distinguished colleague and predecessor raised a point of order, I was saying that under the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act, Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia, the hon. Minister may raise, from time to time, in the Republic and elsewhere, on behalf of the Government, such loans and in such amounts, I shall, from time to time, be authorised, by resolution of the National Assembly, to prescribe such loans by SI.

Mr Speaker, pursuant to the Act, in November last year, I moved a Motion in this House to amend the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act of 1998 to provide for the increase in the maximum amount of total outstanding external debt loans from K20 billion to K35 billion. This amendment was necessary to allow the Government to adjust financing for crucial projects which will promote and sustain economic growth within the stipulated limit of borrowing prescribed by the law. The Executive is grateful to the House that the Motion was approved and the order of 1998 was amended through Statutory Instrument No. 116 of 2013.

Sir, notwithstanding this amendment, it has become necessary to amend the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act of 2013 to adjust the maximum amounts outstanding domestic loans and total amounts of internal and external guarantees that the Government may issue.

Sir, the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act of 2013 prescribes the maximum amounts as follows:

(a) K200 million as the maximum amount of loans raised within the Republic and payable over a period not more than one year that the Minister of Finance can raise under Section 3 of the Act;

(b) K10 million as the maximum amount of loans raised within the Republic and payable over a period of more than one year that the Minister of Finance can raise under Section 3 of the said Act;

(c) K200 million as the maximum amounts of contingency liability in respect of guarantees given to the persons ordinarily resident in Zambia; and

(d) K2 billion as the maximum amount of the contingency liability in respect of guarantees given to persons ordinarily resident outside Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in moving my Motion, I propose the following adjustments to the maximum amounts of Domestic Loans and Guarantees that can be raised under the Act as follows:

(a) an increase in the maximum amounts of loans outstanding at any one time raised within the Republic and payable over a period of not more than one year from K200 million to K13 billion;

(b) an increase in the maximum amounts of loans outstanding at any one time on loans raised within the Republic of Zambia payable over a period of more than one year from K10 million to K20 billion;

(c) an increase in the maximum amount of total contingency liability at any one time in respect of guarantees given under the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act Cap. 366 of the Laws of Zambia to persons ordinarily resident in Zambia from K200 million to K2 billion; and

(d) an increase in the maximum amounts of total contingency liability at any one time in respect of guarantees given under the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia to persons ordinarily resident in Zambia from K2 billion to K5 billion.

Mr Speaker, the proposal to adjust the maximum amounts is intended to ensure that contraction and guaranteeing of loans will be executed within the law. As you may be aware, the maximum amounts of total outstanding domestic loans and external guarantees prescribed in the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act of 2013 were exceeded by the year 2000.

Sir, it is regrettable that the thresholds have not been adjusted to comply with the provisions of the law. Suffice it to mention that ever since the PF Government assumed office in September, 2011, we have realised that the thresholds had been exceeded and required adjustments to comply with the provisions of the law.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, it is a fact that raising the thresholds will also provide more room for the Government to contract additional domestic loans to finance the Budget albeit within the confines of the law.

Mr Speaker, as at 20th September, 2011, the outstanding stock of domestic debt in Government securities was K12.8 billion. Of this amount, K6.5 billion was in Treasury bills and K6.3 billion was in Government bonds. At the same time, the total outstanding amount in external loans guarantees was K3.6 billion. These figures were well above the thresholds as provided in the law. That is as at 20th September, 2011.

Mr Speaker, let me reiterate that in proposing the adjustments in the maximum amounts of loans and guarantees to issue, we are not in any way implying that the Government intends to raise loans indiscriminately. As I have indicated to this august House through my various submissions, including my speech for the 2014 Budget, the Government will endeavour to contract loans to finance its programmes while paying attention to the inescapable need to remain within sustainable debt levels. It is in this regard that the Government has planned to raise only K3.5 billion in domestic loans for the ensuing Budget, which is 2.5 per cent of the GDP to finance the 2014 Budget.

Sir, this Government is fully aware of the adverse effects that imprudent borrowing can have on the economy. Apart from its adverse effects on debt sustainability, excessive Government borrowing reduces the financial resources available to the private sector for investment, a condition popularly known as crowding-out effect on private sector investment.

Mr Speaker, the Government considers the private sector as a key engine in the creation of employment which is at the heart of His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Sata. With this in mind, it is imprudent for the Government to engage in excessive borrowing at the expense of the private sector which we so dearly need.

Mr Speaker, going forward, the Government plans to implement a serious programme of fiscal consolidation in order to contain deficit within fiscally-sustainable levels. Therefore, through the Public Debt Management Strategy, the Government has planned to reduce the Budget deficit in the medium term to not more than 5 per cent of the GDP.

Sir, our expectation is that the Accelerated Public Investment Programme will help anchor the short to medium-term growth towards double digit figures. The high growth rates in national income, coupled with prudent debt management, will enable the Government to achieve fiscal sustainability because the proportion of public debt, as a measure of the GDP, is expected to fall drastically in the medium term.

Sir, we anticipate that by 2016 and beyond, Zambia’s fiscal balance will make a turn around towards the Budget surplus.

Mr Speaker, in recommending favourable consideration of the Motion I have tabled before you today, the Government took into consideration the growth of Zambia’s economy over the past decade which has averaged 6 per cent annually.

Sir, I wish to inform the House that as the economy has grown over the decade, the maximum amounts for domestic debt and guarantees prescribed in the law have not been adjusted to match the growth of the GDP, resulting in a lower indicative debt ratio relative to the growth of the economy.

Mr Speaker, putting it simply, increasing the domestic debt and guarantees threshold amounts is long overdue and, going forward, will provide a realistic picture with regard to compliance with the law and in line with the international practice which relates to level debt to the level of national income.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I am …
 
Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. I am sure you agree that I truly am one of the few people who rarely rise on points of order.

Mr Speaker, the Motion on the Floor is very important for the future of this country.

Sir, on 18th February, 2014, the Government issued a Notice of Motion on Domestic Debt which was going to be debated yesterday, Thursday, 20th February, 2014. On Wednesday, 19th February, 2014, the Government issued a notice withdrawing the Motion that was supposed to be discussed on Thursday. Unknown to me and many of my colleagues here, on the same day the Motion was withdrawn, another notice was issued, indicating another Motion due for debate today, Friday, 21st February, 2014.

Mr Speaker, personally, I did not see this second Motion until this morning. After consulting many colleagues here, I learned that they too did not see it.

Mr Speaker, is the Government in order to ambush hon. Members of Parliament by causing confusing on the date to debate this Motion, bearing in mind that these notices are always on blue paper and, therefore, when one comes containing a withdrawal, we are comfortable? So, when a second Motion is introduced on the same day, I can imagine the confusion that may have come into the minds of so many people. As for me, I did not even see this second Motion until this morning. Are we in order to continue debating this issue when many of us have left our notes at home because we were not aware about this Motion.

I seek your ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling, after consultations, is that the notices were put in the pigeon holes at the same time on Wednesday.

Hon. Government Member: Mule cheking’a ama pigeon holes.

Hon. Government Member: Tababelenga.

The hon. Member for Luena may continue.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, although you have made a ruling, we have actually been ambushed on this Motion. There has been total confusion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Imenda: It is true.

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, please, debate.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I will just debate briefly. The increase in the borrowing threshold sends shivers to some of us for the reasons that I will discuss briefly. Firstly, let us look at the percentages.

Mr Speaker, raising the maximum amount outstanding at any time on domestic loans payable within one year from K200 million to K13 billion translates into an increase of 6,400 per cent. That is very scary. The increase in the maximum amount outstanding at any one time on domestic loans raised within the Republic and payable over a period of more than one year from K10 million to K20 billion translates into an increase of 200,000 per cent. That is even scarier.

Mr Speaker, we come from a background of heavy indebtedness and we know the consequences. It does not matter whether it is domestically or internationally. We know what we went through and are going back to the same situation. That is very scary.

Mr Speaker, recently, on the Floor of this House, a point of order was raised on the rise in the exchange rate of this country. The hon. Minister of Finance knows the implications of that element for other macroeconomic factors. He conceded that inflation is one of the resultant factors of the increase in the exchange rate or the fall in the kwacha. Today, he has responded. I do not want to go into the other elements, but we are saying that we are still grappling with the inflation element at the moment, and yet are introducing more instability in the macroeconomic indicators. That is very scary.

Mr Speaker, what are some of the effects of the increase in borrowing? I will not go into all the details. Like I said, I will try to be brief. One of the implications is that there is likely to be an increase in the interest rates. Once the Government goes on the domestic market and borrows huge amounts of money, inevitably, the interest rates will have to go up. What will that do to our economy? People will not be able to borrow. The private sector and SMEs that we are trying to prop up will not be able to borrow. So, where are they going to find the finances? The Government would have gone into the market and mopped up every ngwee that is available. Which bank will want to lend to a person like me when the Treasury itself is borrowing heavily? 
The banks will not look at me and a private business man or woman. Why are we contradicting ourselves, hon. Minister? You give the things you want to do with the economy in one hand, and then you want to take them away with the other hand. That is very scary.

Mr Speaker, if the Government goes to borrow such huge amounts, and I am sure that this borrowing will be in the form of bonds and Treasury bills, it will crowd out the private sector as I have already mentioned. The private sector will not be able to borrow from the banks. This is because it is known that the Government is a low risk borrower. Therefore, every bank, which wants to lend money, will want to lend at a low risk. So, why would the banks want to lend to the private sector which they consider to be very risky? This means that if the private sector will have to borrow, it will be at very high interest rates. It will be prohibitive and nobody will want to borrow from them.

Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister right, he said that even though the figures he has mentioned are high, the borrowing will be in moderation. However, what guarantee do we have that they shall borrow moderately? After all, they are renowned for going back on their word. We are not guaranteed that once they have been given this blank cheque, they will not utilise it to the maximum.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I oppose this Motion.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I rise to oppose this Motion on behalf of the people of Zambia and, in particular, the people of Monze Central.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that this House approved the Motion on borrowing internationally and we raised the threshold for the amount that can be borrowed. After that approval, the Government of the Republic of Zambia went on a borrowing spree without taking into account the capacity of the Government to payback. In the same vein, by approving this Motion, if we ever do, we will be giving a blank cheque to our colleagues on your right to go on a borrowing spree locally to ensure that they meet their irresponsible spending in this country.

Mr Speaker, I recall that when the hon. Minister of Finance came to this House to present the Budget, in agreeing with the President’s Speech, he mentioned that the Government was going to be prudent in the management of finances. He also made various proposals, one of them being that the Government was going to withdraw subsidies on fuel and maize. He assured the people of this country that the subsidies would go towards sustaining the finances of this country. The Government assured us that they would be prudent in the management of finances, and that those savings would go towards financing projects. However, after approving the Budget, and having supported them in these ventures, they are now coming back to tell the people of Zambia that they are bankrupt and are looking for money to support the various projects that they are undertaking.

Mr Speaker, we are aware that the various projects that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has undertaken have not been met with financial obligations. The Government has been failing to pay contractors, hence the need to borrow and finance the projects. We must all be aware that we live in a global village and that a number of countries that have been in the habit of borrowing heavily are now on their knees and are asking for bail outs from the international community. We are going back to the abominable UNIP days which led us to be a highly indebted country. Through the able leadership of the MMD at that time, we were relieved of that indebtedness, but …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … we now want to go back to the days when we used soap which made dogs bark at people after using it because of its smell. That was because of the irresponsibility of our colleagues. I will oppose this Motion even if I were the only one to do so. I will be on record as having opposed it.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker, I said earlier that those who are afflicted by the spirit of the hyena always make noise …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: … without debating.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we are all Zambians and we must learn from history. We must not be irresponsible just because we are in the Government. We must look after the future generation. Why would we want to be so irresponsible?

Mr Speaker, this Motion implores me and many colleagues to support the call by members of the public for a new Constitution. This will enable us to avoid such reckless manoeuvres. We are aware that when the PF Government came to power, it assured the people of this country that it would ensure that the interest rates or borrowing rates in this country are reduced. By this measure of increasing the threshold for borrowing locally, the borrowing rates are going to rise. We are all aware that, lately, most of the banks are not willing to lend to ordinary Zambians. Instead, they are buying Government bonds because the interest rate is around 18 per cent. Why would they lend money to an individual like Hon. Dr Kaingu where they will be getting 12 per cent interest? They will not do that. By assuring the banks that there will be K20 billion that will be readily available without any risk, they will not be willing to lend to any individual or institution in this country. They will only lend to the Government. Even the illusion of job creation we are aspiring for will not reach fruition in this country because we will be killing the local initiative. Why would we want to do that? As I indicated earlier, we had given a blank cheque to the Government to borrow. As a result of that blank cheque we gave them, they are now looking forward to borrowing US$1 billion on the international market. With the kwacha that is melting like butter in the Kalahari Desert, how do you expect to pay back the loans? The loans which we are going to contract will be at a high cost to the people of this country.

Mr Speaker, we were told on the Floor of this House that we will not be able to recruit teachers and medical personnel because we do not have the money, but now we want to be extravagant and borrow money, not to recruit personnel, but for inducements.

Sir, we are aware that houses of Former President’s, including those who do not qualify, are being built even when we do not have the money. We are aware that the construction has started even when we do not have the money and, because they do not have the resources, they want to borrow from the local market to the detriment of all of us.

Mr Speaker, we are aware that the Government had promised the people of this country that the requisite input support for farmers would be provided but, to date, no fertiliser has been distributed in my constituency.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the things we used to condemn the MMD for doing are being done by the PF. We used to say the MMD dressed trees in the MMD attire, but that is what is happening in Katuba.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, where is the money coming from in the midst of poverty and the Government’s failure to honour their obligations? They want to borrow in order to start diverting money to reckless ventures.

Prof. Luo: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, for the first time, I agree with the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: What do you agree on?

Mr Mwiimbu: There is a term he used in The Post Newspaper …

Hon. Opposition Member: About who?

Mr Mwiimbu: About those colleagues on the other side. I will not use it but, if they insist, he said they are useless.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge our colleagues on the right to search their consciences and look at issues that affect the people of this country prudently, negotiate with us and find a way of resolving the matters that really affect our people. They want to dwell on issues that have no bearing on the lives of our people and want to inflict pain on them instead. It is no wonder that even a DA can castigate Members of Parliament in Lusaka, including His Honour the Vice-President, by saying that these people are not worth being Members of Parliament.

Dr Kaingu: Are you sure?

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes. The point I am making is that …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I only rise on very important points of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is debating as if he is in a dancing class, in order to start bringing in issues that are totally irrelevant to the Motion that is on the Floor and to bring hon. Members of Parliament, especially beautiful young ladies like me, into his debate?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: We note the beauty. Hon. Member, continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I note the beauty of my friend. In fact, she was singled out by the DA for Lusaka for being so irresponsible and he said that he was going to discipline her although he has no capacity to do so.

Mr Speaker, we have national issues that we need to address that are more important than bringing Motions like the one which is on the Floor of this House. This Motion should be defeated, if possible, by our colleagues on your right because it is not in their interest. We, on this side, have all resolved not to support this Motion. It is not in the interest of the people of this country. Even if we are defeated, posterity will be on our side.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: We are not going to support this Motion because it is not in anyone’s interest.

Mr Speaker, I am aware of an hon. Member of Parliament from Kitwe whose constituents have said they will not allow him to stand in 2016 because he is not responsible.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us desist from debating ourselves.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the Motion on the Floor of the House is cardinal in the sense that it brings in issues that help the Government raise revenue and be able to embark on its development agenda.

Sir, it is very clear that domestic debt comprises market securities, non-market securities as well as other public liabilities. True to the hon. Minister’s word, the marketable securities include Treasury bills.

Mr Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Minister referred to the fact that the Government would take measures to ensure that there is no crowding-out effect so as to allow the private sector to take part in the financial markets. It is also true that the domestic debt ratio in this country is within the limits. It is also true that we are within the required debt sustainability analysis that was conducted in 2007.

Sir, in line with the recommendations of the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) Report of 2007, it is in the interest of the country to develop a comprehensive debt strategy and policy that stipulates when to borrow, at what interest rates and terms, and for what purpose. I think the hon. Minister has been categorical in the moving of the Motion that will try, as much as possible, to take this into account. It is also true that we are embarking on ensuring that we reinforce the legislation so that we can allow the hon. Minister to bring the necessary law to this House. This will enable Parliament to be involved in the contracting of this law. With these measures that are being taken, I wish to state that we support this Motion and it is important that we move on.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, today, is the saddest day for Zambia.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Sir, in Lozi, there is a distress call that goes, “mawee!”. When we say, “mawee!”, we put our hands at the back of the head.

The Deputy Chairperson: What does that mean?

Dr Kaingu: Sir, it is a distress call.

Mr Speaker, what is the implication of increasing local borrowing? Firstly, it is clear that the hon. Minister has failed to raise money through taxes. That is why he wants to increase the borrowing. I have heard one Director at the Bank of Zambia say that the country has the ability to borrow. It is not about the ability to borrow, bapongoshi, but the ability to pay back.

The Deputy Chairperson: There is no bapongishi here.

Dr Kaingu: I mean my father-in-law.

The Deputy Chairperson: That should be outside this House.

Dr Kaingu: Sir, if you do not have the capacity to raise the money from the taxes, how, then, will you have the money to pay back the loans? It is clear by looking at the exchange rate that the economy of Zambia is not growing. If it was growing, we would have managed the exchange rate. The hon. Ministers of Commerce, Trade and Industry and Agriculture and Livestock have been politicking. I want to borrow the words of the hon. Minister of Finance who said that people should not politick. They have been politicking by saying the economy has been growing. This is a clear indication that the economy of Zambia is going down. The GDP that you are boasting about is not there. Zambia is going to be ‘swallowed’ because it faces the danger of borrowing money that will be going to activities which are not economical. We saw this in Latin America and Greece. Today, …

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Dr Kaingu: You know nothing. Please, do not say, Aah! This is not material for you.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kaingu: We are talking to the hon. Minister of Finance here.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The rules of this House are very clear. When one hon. Member is debating, we are under obligation to remain silent and give him a conducive environment in which to debate. if you start making comments on what the hon. Member is debating, then, you are inviting such reactions and you will not get any protection from the Chair because you do not deserve it. Your conduct is dishonorable and the Chair will not honour you by respecting your dishonorable conduct.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue, hon. Member.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, let me address the hon. Minister of Finance through the Chair. It is very clear that the hon. Minister is aware of what is currently happening in Greece. Greece is struggling to find its feet in the economy of the world.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I think it is always important for people in leadership to be honest. Is the hon. Member, who is also a former Cabinet Minister who is famously known for his transfers of cash in suitcases, in order not to acknowledge the presentation by the hon. Minister of Finance who has indicated that by bringing this Motion, he is also trying to regularise what his Government left behind, because the figures that we were given in 2011 are as a result of his Government’s irresponsibility? Is he in order to be so hypocritical in his debate without acknowledging those facts?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Since you have sufficiently debated your point of order, the hon. Member will continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the young hon. Minister is philosophically indisposed.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

Let us, please, be civil with each other.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the other problem of over borrowing, if we have not done it already, is that very soon, we are going to allow undesirable investors in the country. This is because it will be very difficult for us to say no to any investment. Probably, this is the reason we are seeing the investment that is taking place in the Lower Zambezi.

Sir, …

Mr Sikazwe: Nikusabaila.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Yes, if you think that nikusabaila …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

Do not answer hecklers. May you continue with your debate.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that if we over borrow, we will not have the ability, which I can see clearly, to pay back and the danger is that we are going to allow undesirable investors. It is already very clear that investors of that kind are in this country, going by the debate between the hon. Ministers of Land, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and Tourism and Art.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the serious implication is that the cost of living both in the urban and rural areas will go up. This will happen because, as we borrow, we will not have the money to develop the rural areas.

Mr Speaker, it is important for the hon. Minister to know that the paradox of heavy borrowing is choking the economy of this country to a level where the private sector, as we have already been told by those who debated before me,  …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

(Debate adjourned)
__________

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 24th February, 2014.