DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

  
Wednesday, 18th June, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

RULINGS ON POINTS OF ORDER

Hon. Members, following a multitude of points of order that was raised in the last meeting, I will be rendering a series of rulings beginning this afternoon up to Friday morning. For this afternoon, I have three rulings to render before the House commences its usual business.

Thank you.

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RULINGS BY MR SPEAKER

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY DR MICHAEL KAINGU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MWANDI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, DR GUY L. SCOTT, MP

Hon. Members will recall that on Friday, 28th February, 2014, during His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, and when the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Elijah Muchima, MP, was raising a Supplementary Question, Dr Michael Kaingu, MP, raised a point of order in which he asked whether His Honour the Vice-President was in order to bring armed men into the House for his protection and that of his loved ones.  

In my immediate response, I reserved the ruling on the point of order.  I now wish to render my ruling.

Hon. Members, as Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Guy L. Scott, MP, holds the second highest office in the land. As such, the office entitles him to security at all times.   

Hon. Members will vividly recall that at the material time, there was gross disorderly conduct in the House caused by the Opposition Members of Parliament. Therefore, due to the insecure situation the House was in, His honour the Vice-President’s security officers were, in my opinion, justified to enter the House for the purpose of ensuring the safety of His Honour the Vice-President.  Under the circumstances, their action was therefore reasonable and justified, needless to mention that such security officers are entitled and expected to be armed.

In the premise, therefore, my ruling is that His Honour the Vice-President did not breach any rule of the House. In addition, his security officers were in order to enter the House for the purpose of ensuring his safety.

Thank you.

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY THE MINISTER OF YOUTH AND SPORT, HON. C. KAMBWILI, MP, AGAINST THE HON. MEMBER FOR MWANDI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, DR M. KAINGU, MP

The House will recall that on Friday, 28th February, 2014, the Minister of Youth and Sport, Hon. Chishimba Kambwili, MP, raised the following point of order against the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi Parliamentary Constituency, Dr M. Kaingu, MP:

“Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to rise on this important point of order. Yesterday, when you ordered the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament to leave the Chamber because they were interrupting the Business of the House, Hon. Dr Kaingu said:

‘We have removed the respect from you, Mr Speaker. It appears that you do not understand English.’

“Mr Speaker, this is misbehaviour of the worst kind, particularly that it is coming from a Vice-President of a political party. Was Hon. Dr Kaingu in order to disrespect the Hon. Mr Speaker and bring this House into disrepute?”

In my immediate response, I stated that in order for me to make an informed ruling on the point of order, I needed to look at the transcript of the proceedings of the House for the material day. I, therefore, reserved my ruling.

Hon. Members, as I had indicated in my immediate response to the point of order, my Office had recourse to the verbatim record of the proceedings of the House for the material day. The record revealed that the point of order raised by Hon. C. Kambwili, MP, was based on Hon. Dr Michael Kaingu’s debate on Thursday, 27th February, 2014. Further, the verbatim record showed that the debate in question proceeded, in part, as follows:

“Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, may I say something.

“Mr Speaker: We cannot talk in this kind of situation. How can we, hon. Member for Mwandi?

“Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I agree with you that the House is ungovernable.

“Hon. Government Members: Aah!

“Dr Kaingu: I agree with him, unless you do not understand the language I used. I agree with Mr Speaker. Sir, this is not the way things should be done. The hon. Members of Parliament are in the House. Let the strangers leave. Once they leave, then we can start conducting the business of the day.”

Hon. Members, based on the verbatim record, I find that Hon. Dr M. Kaingu, MP, did not utter the words, “We have removed the respect from you, Mr Speaker,” as alleged by Hon. C. Kambwili, MP, in his point of order. Rather, Hon. Dr. M Kaingu, MP, was agreeing with me that the House had become ungovernable.

Hon. Members, again, based on the verbatim record, I further find that Hon. Dr. M Kaingu, MP, did not utter the words:

“And it appears that you do not understand English.” Instead, he uttered the words:

‘I agree with him unless you do not understand the language I used.’”

Those words were not directed at Mr Speaker as alleged by Hon. C. Kambwili, MP. My ultimate ruling, therefore, is that Hon. C. Kambwili’s point of order misrepresented Hon. Dr M. Kaingu, MP.

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR DAVIES MWILA, MP, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHIPILI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST MR VINCENT MWALE, MP, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHIPANGALI CONSTITUENCY

Hon. Members will recall that on Friday, 28th February, 2014, during His Honour the Vice- President’s Question Time, and when the hon. Member for Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency, Mr. L. C. Bwalya, MP, was asking a question, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili Parliamentary Constituency, Mr D. Mwila, MP, raised the following point of order:
 
“Sir, the rules of the House state that no hon. Member of Parliament can come into the House with a camera. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali in order to come into the House with an iPad and film the proceedings of the House?

“Sir, I need your serious ruling on why the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali should not be punished.”

In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling in order to study the point of order carefully before I could render a ruling.  I have since studied the question raised in the point of order and will now render my ruling.

In his point of order, Mr D. Mwila, MP, asked whether the Member of Parliament for Chipangali Constituency, Mr Vincent Mwale, MP, was in order to enter the House with an iPad and use it to film the proceedings of the House.

Hon. Members, investigations conducted by my Office revealed that the hon. Member did have an iPad in the House on the material day, Thursday, 27th February, 2014, and filmed the proceedings of the House. As hon. Members will recall, the House was in a disorderly state on 26th and 27th February, 2014, arising from the gross disorderly conduct of the Opposition Members of Parliament in their quest to have the Executive expedite the process of enacting the Constitution. It is against this background that Mr Mwale, MP, was seen filming the proceedings of the House with his iPad. 

Hon. Members, my predecessors and I have said before, but for the benefit of those who need constant reminders, I will repeat that the proceedings of the House are guided by the rules of the House put in place by the House itself as well as the customs, practices and conventions existing in other Commonwealth Parliaments. The rules of this House do not permit a Member to take pictures in the House or film the proceedings of the House. There is also no established practice that permits hon. Members to take pictures or film the proceedings of the House without the authority of the Speaker.

Further, it is common knowledge that only accredited journalists with the National Assembly are authorised to film the proceedings of the House and take pictures in the House in line with the guidelines the National Assembly has issued to them.

In view of this, by bringing an iPad into the House and using it to film the proceedings of the House, Mr Mwale, MP, behaved in a dishonourable manner and breached the rule regarding the use of a device such as an iPad in the House. The hon. Member was, therefore, out of order.   

Hon. Mwale, I want to remind you that as a Member of Parliament, you belong to a dignified House which demands of its Members to behave in a manner that extols its dignity and integrity. I do understand that the mood in the House at that material time may have evoked some excitement in some hon. Members, but that still did not justify your action. In any event, you and every Member were bound to observe the rules of this House. However, since you are a first offender, let this serve as a timely warning.  A repeat of such a breach in future will, no doubt, attract a stiff penalty. So, Hon. Mwale, I strongly advise that you strictly abide by the rules of the House, henceforth.

Hon. Members, that concludes the first batch of rulings.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

INCORPORATION OF SPORTS IN SCHOOL CURRICULA

462. Mr Mutale (Kwacha) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to include sport in the primary and secondary school curricula and, if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(b) if there were no such plans, why.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament are aware, at the beginning of January this year, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education implemented the revised curriculum.

Sir, physical education and sport is part and parcel of the new curriculum both at primary and secondary school sub-sector levels and are also examinable. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many teachers of sport are available for different sports disciplines.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, it is not possible for me to provide those statistics. However, there are teachers who are in-charge of physical education and sport.

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that physical education and sport is now part of the curriculum for both primary and secondary schools. May I know what aspect of sport will be taught other than physical education?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, largely, physical education will be taught.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, in a quest to make physical education examinable in schools, will it be compulsory to all pupils and schools or will there be exceptions?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, physical education and sport, though not compulsory, is part of the core-curriculum in our education system.

At the secondary school level, as part of the new curriculum, physical education and sport are one of the optional subjects. Therefore, on one hand, it is a core-curricular activity in which every pupil will be expected to participate and, on the other hand, it is an examinable optional subject under the vocational pathway.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, sport is quite encompassing. Hon. Minister, do you have specialised teachers for the various sports disciplines such as javelin, football, boxing, tennis and so on and so forth?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the teachers may not necessarily be specialised but, once they have been trained, they are capacitated to handle any type of sport in our school system.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I would like to single out sport, football in particular. Most schools have got teachers who have volunteered to be referees. Are you working in conjunction with the Ministry of Youth and Sport to train some of them to become career football referees?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Kambwili would be better placed to answer that question. I think that when the hon. Minister visited Cuba at one stage, he came up with the idea of introducing a sport university in this country. It is on this premise that once a university has been opened, Hon. Muchima’s question will be considered.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I do recall a plan to introduce a diploma course in sport at the University of Zambia (UNZA). I would like to know whether this plan is still there or it has been abandoned.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, as part of the review of the new curriculum in our education system, there are also plans to review the curriculum in our colleges of education. I am sure this aspect of Hon. Chipungu’s question will be considered as we do this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, schools require specialised areas where sports activities can be conducted. What plans are in place to create such areas, especially for schools in urban centres that do not have sufficient space?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, the secondary schools that are being built in urban areas have a package for sports facilities. If they do not have these facilities, they are expected to share with schools that have the facilities in place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, may I know whether the Government …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this chance to raise this point of order relating to a national matter. Is the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to make parents, especially those in rural areas who are highly impoverished, contribute heavily towards the running of core-curricula activities at regional, provincial and national levels without the ministry explaining to them the purpose for which they are paying the money?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

This is a classical instance where a point of order is inappropriately or improperly resorted to. There is really no urgency in that issue. In a manner in which the exception is envisaged, namely the general rule is that points of order are for procedural purposes that could easily be responded to through a question.

Let me state that we have a tight agenda, especially this afternoon and evening. So, I will be extremely slow to entertain points of order. I would like to give this warning in advance.

Could the hon. Member for Chadiza continue.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether his ministry supplies sports equipment to schools that are teaching this subject.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, that is the position and it is part of our budget. Schools are supposed to buy sports equipment using the grants that they are given.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that Hon. Kambwili made reference to the opening of a university for sport. Could this be a confirmation by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government that a university for sport will be introduced in Zambia when the people of the North-Western Province do not want a university for sport, but one for mining?

 Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I would not say that was a confirmation. I said that from what the hon. Minister indicated after visiting a certain country, if we had a university for sport, it would go a long way in supporting men and women who participate in sport. However, that is not for me to confirm. Nonetheless, I can confirm that as part of the university infrastructure development, we have made a commitment that as we go on, each province in this country is going to have a university. I am even surprised that Hon. Mwanza chose to ask that question. As we build universities, obviously, our colleagues in the North-Western Province are going to have one.

I thank you, Sir.

CLOSURE OF A SCHOOL IN ZAMBEZI EAST

463. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) why a school was closed in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency following the introduction of local languages as a medium of instruction for Grades 1 to 4;

(b) what measures the Government had taken to ensure that what happened in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency did not occur in other parts of the country; and

(c) what intervention the ministry had made in order to realise its policy of introducing local languages in schools.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that a school in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency was temporarily closed because the community could not agree on which language should be used, between Lunda and Luvale, as the medium of instruction from Grades 1 to 4. In this case, the zonal Language for Zambezi East has always been Lunda and, for Zambezi West, Luvale, but the Luvale people at the school felt that they were in the majority and, therefore, wanted to have Luvale as a medium of instruction.

Sir, the Government has planned to carry out sensitisation activities with all the stakeholders to explain the current policy of using the seven zonal languages (Silozi, Chitonga, Icibemba, Chinyanja, Kikaonde and Lunda, but not Soli) that have been used in schools for a long time now as the media of instruction from Grades 1 to 4.

Mr Speaker, in order to realise its policy of introducing local languages in schools as a medium of instruction, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is currently developing and reviewing education materials in local languages for the affected grades and aligning the teacher education curriculum with the school curriculum. In addition, the ministry is conducting sensitisation programmes for all stakeholders to ensure that the new policy on the revised curriculum and its educational benefits are explained and understood by the public.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing this question to come in as a question of an urgent nature because I had raised a point of order on this subject.

Sir, disappointed as I am in the answer that the hon. Minister has given, owing to the fact that I am convinced that he has not given the real reason for the altercation that happened at Dichawan’ga Community School in Chingalala in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency.

In asking my follow-up question, I would like to make the hon. Minister understand that I am aware that there is the doctrine of separation of powers which is a bedrock of our democracy here. With me, are two court judgments that surround the use of Luvale and Lunda in Zambezi District.

Sir, I am also aware that the Provincial Minister, Hon. Nathaniel Mubukwanu, had instructed against the PF policy. The medium of instruction in the district in the elementary Grades of 1 to 4 is English. I am also aware of the pronouncement that was made by the Permanent Secretary that we should respect the zonal arrangements which I also have with me.

Mr Speaker, finally, I am also aware that the Head of State gave a decree that both languages should be taught in Zambezi East and Zambezi West parliamentary constituencies and that the officers in the ministry must find modalities of implementing this policy.

Sir, my follow-up question is that since when was a Head of State given the powers to usurp the High Court decisions that were made in a judgment that I have before me that was presided over in 2002 by Hon Justice Ireen Mambilima in an open court and represented by Lisulo & Company on the part of the plaintiff and LMB, a very renowned law firm consisting of honounarable men of those days?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, another court judgment by Justice Lloyd Siame was made on 30th April, 2010, where Chief Shinde was the plaintiff and Chief Ndungu the defendant. It was indicated that the east bank of the Zambezi River must use Lunda and the west bank of the same river must use Luvale. Since when did the President usurp the powers to overrule the two court judgments?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, as indicated in this document, the policy of the Government is that we must follow the seven languages that are properly zoned. All of us are aware that in Zambezi, there is Zambezi East and Zambezi West and the languages to be used are as I have indicated earlier.

Sir, it is not possible to change this. That is how it is.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Very good.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Government is going to sensitise the stakeholders. I want to know why you hurriedly implemented this unpopular and bad policy without consulting the relevant stakeholders who will be affected by its implementation.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, this policy was there even before the PF came into office. At one point, when it was just pronounced, a number of people, including the hon. Members on the other side of the House, were against it. However, if you now go to any school or zone, you will find that people are very happy about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I would say olo …

Mr Speaker: Meaning what?

Ms Sayifwanda: I am really happy, …

Mr Speaker: I lost you there.

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I am saying although I am happy …

Hon. Government Members: Although?

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I am happy in the sense that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has clearly stated that Zambezi East is for Lundas while Zambezi West is for Luvales. Now, what is going to happen to the letter that the President wrote to Senior Chiefs Ndungu and Ishindi?

Hon. Government Members: What letter?

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, the President has indicated that both Lunda and Luvale should be taught in Zambezi East. Meanwhile all the chiefs in Zambezi East are Lunda while those in Zambezi West are Luvale. So, what is the ministry going to do since there is this directive?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have some order.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Member, the letter was addressed to the two chiefs. So, I am not privy to the contents of that letter and I can, therefore, not comment on it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, time and again, you have reminded us to be factual and honest in this House. The hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, Mr P. Ngoma, has indicated that the letter, which the Head of State wrote, was addressed to the chiefs and not to him. I have a copy of that letter before me and the first carbon copy is to the hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the second carbon copy is to the Provincial Minister, the third carbon copy is to the Provincial Permanent Secretary for the North-Western Province and the last carbon copy is to the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. Is he, therefore, in order to misguide those of us who are so attentive to the happenings of this country by insinuating that the letter has not enjoyed his sight?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that, hon. Minister, as you continue to respond on this subject, please, take that issue into account.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer by the hon. Minister pertaining to the new curricula in primary schools and a directive that arises therefrom, …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this important point of order before the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education can respond to the matters in the letter that have been referred thereto. The hon. Member for Mazabuka Central has mentioned the officers that letter was copied to. Has this House become a place where people can refer to documents …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Kampyongo: … that have been sneaked from Government offices without proper authorisation?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have some order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on whether this House has become a place where people can bring documents they are not entitled to have access to for debate.

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I will still allow the hon. Minister to respond.

Hon. Member for Monze Central, you may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was stating that arising from the answer by the hon. Minister pertaining to the curriculum that has been introduced by the Government in our primary schools from Grades 1 to 4, and the directives therein and considering that Public Service regulations require that every teacher shall be eligible to serve in every part of the country, is it now the Government’s policy that only those who are knowledgeable in a local language that is taught in a particular area will be recruited in that area?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you respond, please, take into account the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the letter in question was just copied to us as a ministry, but was written to the two chiefs. So, I still insist that I do not want to comment on it. On the question by the hon. Member for Monze Central, a teacher is a teacher. When one goes to college to train to become a teacher, he/she is taught how to teach. So, what I am saying is that any teacher, whether Bemba and is in the Eastern Province or Lozi from the Western Province, …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Can you allow the hon. Minister to continue with the response.

Mr Livune resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr P. Ngoma:  A teacher who is Bemba by tribe can be posted to the Southern Province. As long as this teacher has a teacher’s handbook which is written in Tonga, he/she will go through it and be able to use it to teach the pupils. That is what it is.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, what we are confronted with this afternoon is a clear case of contradictions in policy direction emanating from what the ministry is doing and the directive from State House. Can the hon. Minister make it clear to the House that as far as Zambezi East is concerned, the ministry is following a monolingual policy …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. I apologise to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa who was on the Floor. After your able directive to the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to respond to the issue raised on the Floor, he has categorically refused to do so. Is the hon. Minister in order to refuse to follow your directive?

Mr Speaker: Unless I am not following the proceedings, I never heard the hon. Minister say that he has refused.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: That is my ruling.{mospagebreak}

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister clarify that the ministry is following a monolingual policy as far as the medium of instruction in Zambezi East is concerned, that is, teaching in Lunda and no other language. Can he also confirm that the ministry is not following a bilingual or multilingual policy.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, what I am talking about now is what I am aware of. Therefore, I do not want to be swayed.

Interruptions

Mr P. Ngoma: I do not want to talk about something that I do not know about.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, could you, please, sit down. If you are not in a position to respond to the question, I think the most honourable thing to do is to ask for my leave to revert to this subject at an appropriate juncture when you have made your consultations, including with your hon. Minister. That will enable us to avoid this flurry of questions arising because you are not able to meet the questions with adequate answers. Do you see yourself requiring more time to consult and coming back later?

Mr P. Ngoma: I am most obliged, Mr Speaker. We take it that way.

Hon. Opposition Members: Which way?

Mr Speaker: Very well, I will explain the way.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister will consult, especially with his principal, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and they will come back to the House at an appropriate juncture so that we put this matter to rest.

THE UNITED NATIONS WORLD TOURISM ORGANISATION GENERAL CONFERENCE

464. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting:

(a) how many media houses in Zambia had produced documentaries on the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Conference that was co-hosted by Zambia and Zimbabwe in August, 2013;

(b) why few stories had been written about the event; and

(c) whether media participation prior to and after the event was adequate.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Kapeya) (on behalf of the Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Dr Katema)): Mr Speaker, although various media houses have independent editorial practices or policies, a number of them covered the event prior to, during and after the UNWTO Conference. The coverage for this activity was in different forms, with both public and private media houses producing various products such as documentaries, interviews and so on and so forth.

Mr Speaker, the focus of my answer is on the public media while appreciating the contributions made by the private media.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us have order.

There are a lot of conversations running both on the left and right.

Mr Kapeya: From the public media, programmes ran as follows:

(a) the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) ran a programme called ZNBC UNWTO Update. The programme looked at milestones leading to the UNWTO Conference and interviewed different personalities that were going to participate in the various activities that made up the event. The programme ran for twenty-five minutes five days per week for three weeks;

(b) the Zambia Daily Mail assigned six reporters and one photographer to cover the UNWTO General Assembly; and

(c) a number of news stories and feature articles on the conference and Zambia’s tourism potential were accorded prominence in the Times of Zambia and Sunday Times of Zambia every week.

Sir, Zambia successfully co-hosted the 20th General Assembly of the UNWTO with Zimbabwe from the 24th to 29th August, 2013. The media adequately covered the event prior to, during and after the conference. The numbers, as recorded by the public media, indicate a consistent flow of articles throughout the period as outlined below:

(a) ZNBC Television and Radio

The ZNBC dedicated programmes on the UNWTO General Assembly on television which ran for fifteen minutes five days a week. The programme dissected the UNWTO as an organisation within the United Nations (UN) and looked at what role it plays in the UN as well as its importance to member states.

The ZNBC’s Radio 4 produced and aired forty-five five minute UNWTO daily updates from 15th May, 2013 to 23rd October, 2013. These were aired on the Breakfast Show at 0730 hours. Similar shows were aired in the evening every day on the same channel, with all the local language channels running similar shows in vernacular. The Breakfast Show was aired from Livingstone daily from 18th to 29th October, 2013.

(b) Zambia Daily Mail

The Zambia Daily Mail published news and in-depth stories and pictures before, during and after the event. Most of these stories were given prominence on page 1 of the newspaper. About twenty pictures and twenty-five stories and in-depth articles on the event were published.

(c) Times of Zambia

The stories published in the Times of Zambia were too numerous to itemise. All the stories published can be accessed from copies of the various editions of the Times of Zambia newspaper.

Mr Speaker, considering the number of news stories and feature articles on the UNWTO and Zambia’s tourism potential, and radio and television coverage prior to, during and after the event, it is our considered view that the numerous topics on the UNWTO General Assembly were comprehensively covered by the public media.

Mr Speaker, the UNWTO was generally well covered by both the Public and Private media such as The Post that had a weekly column, Muvi TV and community radio stations countrywide as well as in Livingstone.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that lengthy response.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: May I find out from the hon. Minister what measures the ministry is putting in place to assist the media acquire equipment which would match the current global trends, especially that we saw sophisticated equipment during the UNWTO from media organisations that came from abroad.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I agree with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member of Parliament. Learning is a continuous process. Media institutions in Zambia learnt a lot from the displays of our colleagues from other countries. In the same vein, we are also trying to learn similar techniques.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he means by comprehensive coverage and that the UNWTO was well covered by both the public and private media when, for instance, reputable private media houses such as MUVI TV and Daily Nation were barred from covering the closing ceremony. Is this the ‘well coverage’ that he is talking about in his response?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I need to verify that assertion because it was never brought to our attention.

Thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I have listened to the hon. Minister’s response in which he has referred to the UNWTO Conference as an event. Globally, the general understanding has been that the UNWTO is not an event, but rather a spark that will play a catalytic role in …

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: … promoting sustainable tourism. Can the Hon. Minister put it to us clearly what his ministry is doing to galvanise the media in order to promote sustainable tourism in the country.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, let me appreciate the guidance from the master of English …

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: … who understands the difference between a general assembly and an event. As I said earlier, learning is a continuous process. We will bear that in mind as we go forward.

I thank you, Sir.

HAJAMBA CLINIC IN PEMBA

465. Mr Mazoka (Pemba) asked the Minister of Health when medical personnel would be deployed to Hajamba Clinic in Pemba District.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, no medical staff has been deployed to Hajamba Clinic in Pemba District at the moment due to the fact that no staff house was built when the clinic was constructed.

We will deploy staff at Hajamba Clinic as soon as we construct a staff house. However, the community has opted to use the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) to construct staff houses to enable the ministry to deploy medical staff to the clinic. Staff houses are in the process of being constructed.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, we opted to use the CDF because the clinic was constructed around 2012 and the ministry did not bother to build any staff houses. Is it the norm in the ministry to wait for the CDF in order to construct infrastructure when there is a line ministry which is supposed to do that?

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, in our vision to provide quality health services as closer to the people as possible, one of our key guiding principles is to partner with the corporate organisations, individuals and communities. We believe that what is happening in Pemba is in line with partnering with the community.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister what the standard requirement is for opening a clinic in regard to staff houses. Do we need to put up two, three or four houses before a clinic can be officially opened?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, our facilities are in different categories. We have a health post that only requires one staff house because there is only one polyvalent health worker to run it. A health centre or clinic needs four staff and, therefore, needs four staff houses.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when he says that staff will be …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chadiza, is it a procedural point of order?

Mr Mbewe: Yes.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Continue, then.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I stand here, again, to lament over that Government.

Mr Mbulakulima: The PF? Which Government?

Mr Mbewe: The PF Government.

Mr Speaker, I am rising for the second time on the same point of order which I do not think the Government is paying attention to. This is in regard to the 650 health posts which the Government assured this House it would construct.

Mr Speaker, to date, nothing is happening and its term of office is about to come to an end.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, when is the Government going to start the construction of the health posts? People are tired of waiting. Is the Government in order to misinform the House that it is going to construct the health posts in a short time, and yet it has not done so to date? Is it in order, Sir?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: As much as I appreciate that such an assurance may have been given, that is the kind of question that would be best followed up with a specific question to the Executive. It is the best way we can proceed with matters of this sort. We have to follow up with a question and say, “On such a date, you said this, so why has it not taken place?” We then pick that question, take it to the line ministry for a response, and then you engage it, as I guided yesterday. Otherwise, our business shall be derailed. We have a very short afternoon and evening. Today is Wednesday, if I may remind you.

The hon. Member for Choma Central may continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister said that staff will be deployed as soon as the staff houses have been constructed and made reference to the efforts that are being made by the community through the constituency Development Fund (CDF), what specific interventions have been put in place to support the local initiative to use the CDF to construct houses that ordinarily should have been constructed by the ministry? What are the specific interventions and when do you intend to put them in place given that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think that you have made your point.

Mr Mweetwa: Yes, Sir. It is difficult to trust the PF.

Mr Speaker: You have made your point.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, planning is done using the bottom-up approach. The people in Pemba have submitted the Infrastructure Operational Plan. If they submit that they have partnered with the community to handle the aspect of constructing one or two staff houses, our Operational Plan for 2014 will not include it in the routine funding. For us, it is perfectly acceptable for partners to come on board and help us achieve our goals. We have no problem with the community proceeding with the construction of staff houses where such initiatives exist.

I thank you, Sir.

STANDARDS IN TOURISM TRAINING

466. Mr Kapyanga asked the Minister of Tourism and Art:

(a) whether the training offered in the tourism industry was of international standard; and

(b) if not, what measures had been taken to improve the standards.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr Evans): Mr Speaker, the training being offered by the institutions in the sector are of international standard because it is regulated by the Technical Education Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVETA). For example, the training offered by the Hotel and Tourism Training Institute (HTTI) has, over the years, benefited both Zambia and some countries in the sub-region.

Mr Speaker, in order to further enhance the standards, the Government, through my ministry, is implementing the following measures:

(i) facilitating the accreditation of courses offered by the HTTI to the UNWTO Tourism Education Qualification.

In this regard, the HTTI has been offered three scholarships to train lecturers at master’s degree level in order to improve the calibre of teaching staff;

(ii) the Hong Kong Polytechnic University is assisting the HTTI in developing a degree-level curriculum, as the Government intends to commence higher level training at the HTTI in the nearest possible future to address the existing gap in tourism education;

(iii) a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for expanding tourism training programmes at the HTTI with the introduction of Health, Tourism and Arts training with the help of Campus Lidkoping and Formalakademic Arts Schools of Sweden, respectively, is under consideration.

It is hoped that through such collaboration, the quality of training will improve tremendously. The introduction of Health Tourism will see the emergence of spas in main hotels and lodges to be managed by Zambians as well as a developed health tourism which is a significant sub-sector of tourism; and

(iv) furthermore, the HTTI and the Mauritius Institute of Training and Development are working out an MoU to enhance tourism training in both countries for mutual benefit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, the organisation of the UNWTO Conference brought out a lot of deficiencies that the ministry noted. For example, we had to hire a professional conference organiser from outside. What immediate measures has the ministry put in place to construct a new university in tourism that would train professionals such as the ones we hired?

Mr Evans: Mr Speaker, I have indicated in my response that we have been given scholarships from a university in Hong Kong and will be looking to building our own university once everything has been put in place.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, does the Government intend to offer tour guiding programmes as part of the curriculum at the HTTI?

Mr Evans: Mr Speaker, during the UNWTO, we trained a few tour guides and will consider the training of more tour guides in the long run.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the ministry has taken any measures to follow up on the numerous backyard hospitality training institutions that are offering some kind of training so as to raise the standards to the international level which he referred to.

Mr Evans: Mr Speaker, just a couple of weeks ago, the Permanent Secretary went to Hong Kong to follow up on this issue. Yes, we are following that up.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you may not have understood the question. Hon. Member for Kabwata, please, repeat your question.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, there are many institutions that are offering …

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. I hope it is procedural.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to rise on this point of order because it is of serious procedural concern. This afternoon, I have listened to two hon. Ministers make hypothetical statements. We have heard hypothetical statements on the construction of a sports university and a tourism university.

Mr Speaker, is the Chief Whip in order to sit there quietly without providing guidance to the hon. Ministers to the effect that on the Floor of this House, there should never be hypothetical statements? What is stated on the Floor of the House are matters of policy and plans. This Government is guided by the Seventh National Development Plan (SNDP) which was revised. Therefore, whatever is said on the Floor of this House has to be guided by that overall plan of the Government, and not hypothetical statements.

Mr Speaker, is the Chief Whip in order to sit there without providing serious guidance to the hon. Ministers?  I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The difficulty I have with that point of order is that you are presuming that the Chief Whip has, in fact, not provided any guidance. I think that you should have limited yourself to the statements that were made earlier. In so doing, that point of order should have been made at the material time, and not ex post facto unless you are attributing this to the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art. As far as I have followed his response, he has not put any hypothesis on anything so far.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

We cannot debate in reverse and presume that the Chief Whip is not providing guidance. This is because I presume whenever that guidance is provided, it is outside the Floor of the House.

The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was about to ask the hon. Minister a question on TEVETA. Hypothetically, all training institutions in Zambia ought to be registered by TEVETA, but the reality on the ground is that there are many that are not registered, and yet many of them offer training in hospitality. Is there any initiative by the Ministry of Tourism and Art to ensure that such unregistered institutions are brought within the purview of the ministry so as to enhance the standard of training they are offering?

Mr Evans: Mr Speaker, yes, the ministry has taken stock of all these institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, considering that tourism is the third most important industry in our country, I have not got comfort from the answers the ministry responsible for tourism has given us because they do not seem factual. Would the hon. Minister indicate to us the number of scholarships that will be given for students to go and study at the university to be built so that we can enhance our education, and when this university will be built. This is a very important issue that we cannot trivialise.

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, the scholarships that the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned are going to be given. I want to affirm that I was in Spain and we agreed with an investor from there to come and invest in Zambia by constructing a university for hospitality studies. This will be done soon. It is just a matter of the investor coming to sign an MoU.

I thank you, Sir.

ROAD WORKS IN RUFUNSA CONSTITUENCY

467. Mr Chipungu asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when works on the following roads in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project would commence:

(i) Great East Road/Shikabeta/Lunsemfwa to Mkushi District Headquarters; and
 (ii) Chomba/Shikabeta; and

(b) what the estimated cost of the two projects was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA) is currently in the process of acquiring consultancy services to provide for detailed engineering designs for upgrading to bituminous standard T4 (at Mupanshya Mission)-Shikabeta-Mboshya-Ching’ombe-Mission-Old Mkushi roads (RD146, RD493 and RD206) in Lusaka and Central provinces. The services are scheduled to commence in October, 2014. The civil works for the roads are scheduled to commence in 2016 following the completion of the detailed designs of the road.

Mr Speaker, the actual cost of the project will be determined after the detailed engineering design has been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am not sure where the position of this road to Mkushi will be. I do not know whether the hon. Minister has been to the area because the road I am talking about leads to Lusemfwa River. A contractor was engaged to work on that road. Is the hon. Minister saying that they have changed the position of the road to be built?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the last time I was in that area was when I was a young officer in the army conducting army exercises.

Laughter

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, I said that we are acquiring consultancy services. If need be, we may change the designs and routes of the roads.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, whereas the hon. Deputy Minister was in that area when he was a young officer, I have been to that place recently. Taking advantage …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Member: You are a concerned citizen.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, yes, I am a concerned citizen. Let me take advantage of this question to ask my question. Taking into account the fact that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project seems to be the alpha and omega of everything, the people of Chief Mboshya’s area have had difficulties crossing the Lusemfwa River. Is there any hope, not in hell, for you to provide a pontoon for the people in that area?

Dr Kaingu: Even a Pontoon.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the question is about roads and not pontoons.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

No further questions.

Laughter

DIP TANKS IN RURAL AREAS

468. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when construction of dip tanks in rural areas would commence as promised by the Government.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, we have a lengthy response.

Sir, the construction/rehabilitation of dip tanks countrywide commenced in 2013. The following is a detailed description of where this is taking place:

District No. of Dip Tanks Rehabilitated Total Cost (K)

Mazabuka 9   170,000

Nakonde 3  77,000

Isoka 2 70,000

Kazungula 1 60,000

Mbala  2 25,000

The dip tanks that are still under construction (whose works started in 2013, and will be completed in 2014) are as follows:

Province District  No. of Dip Tanks under Construction 

North-Western Province  Solwezi    1

 Mufumbwe    1

 Chavuma    1

 Total     3

 Central Province  Serenje     1

 Kapiri Mponshi   2

Kabwe    1

Total    4

Southern Province Mazabuka    2

 Monze     1

 Kalomo    1

 Zimba     1

 Choma 1

Total    6

Northern Province Mungwi    1

 Kasama    1

Total    2

Muchinga Province Chama     1

The following are the dip tanks’ construction under tender procedures (the process started in 2013, and will be completed in 2014:

Province No. of Dip Tanks under Tender Procedures

Lusaka    5

Copperbelt    2

Central    7

Eastern    8

Southern  13

Muchinga 3

Sir, regarding the targets for 2014, the Government plans to rehabilitate 317 and construct 189 dip tanks at a cost of about K57 million. These are at different levels of tender processes and are segregated as follows:

Province No. of Dip Tanks to be  No. of Dip Tanks to be 
 Rehabilitated  Constructed

Copperbelt 5  29

Central 31  7

Lusaka 9 4

Southern 171 88

Eastern 66 11

Northern 10    20

Muchinga 11 7

North-Western 10    16

Luapula 4 7

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that no dip tanks will be constructed in the Western Province due to the absence of brown ear-ticks that cause East Coast Fever, commonly known as denkete. The environmental conditions of floods and the hot Kalahari sands, do not favour the growth of these ticks.

Sir, for the information of the hon. Members, we have a twelve-paged document which we will circulate for them to know exactly where the dip tanks will be constructed and what the progress on the rehabilitations is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that animals are dying of the corridor disease in Nangoma and Mwembeshi because of  a lack of dip tanks?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the problem of a lack of dip tanks and animal disease is almost everywhere. This is why, as a ministry, we have a detailed report on the works that are going on. We may not be aware of the extent of the disease in Nangoma and Mwembeshi, but suffice it to say that, as a ministry, we do not plan for constituencies. The report that we are giving is on districts. So, there is an allocation for Mumbwa, and we hope to expedite the works in order to solve that problem.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about the construction of dip tanks in Muchinga Province. Are there any animals in that province?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Question.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, yes, there are lots of animals in Muchinga.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, may I know if the hon. Minister has any plans to provide dipping chemicals to the rehabilitated dip tanks because, as of now, the dip tanks are not being used.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we provide these services for communities to procure. However, I must also say that currently, we have a programme of vaccinating animals.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how much it costs to construct a standard dip tank in the Southern Province.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, depending on where the dip tank is located and the distance from where the materials are found, you will realise that the prices vary. So, there is no standard price.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker the vaccination programme which the hon. Minister said is ongoing has not reached my district. When can I expect this programme to reach my district?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, it is now a requirement that all animals are vaccinated, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is currently doing this. We need to find out what the problem is. As a ministry, including the officers in the province, we need to draw up a programme for vaccinations. I am surprised that the officers are not in your district. However, we will follow up on that one.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there is no need for dip tanks in the Western Province because there are no ticks which cause the East Coast Fever. God has been so gracious to the Western Province by giving it floods. The people of the Western Province also need to get a share of the national cake, considering that they have a unique disease which is the Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP). How is the province compensated because, as we have heard, other districts and provinces have dip tanks that cost so much to put up? How can they get a share of that money to control animal diseases?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, although the question is somewhat new, maybe, all we can say is that there is so much that the Government is doing in the Western Province to eradicate the CBPP. A lot of money is being spent on the eradication of the disease in the Western Province. As a Government, we are doing a lot in line with the eradication of the CBPP in the province.

I thank you, Sir.

WAMAFWA/IFUMBA ROAD IN SOLWEZI WEST

469. Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to construct an all-weather feeder road from Wamafwa to Ifuma in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) if so, when construction would commence; and

(c) what the estimated cost of the project was.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct an all-weather feeder road from Wamafwa to Ifumba in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency because it has not been prioritised by the respective local road authorities, hence its exclusion from the 2014 Road Sector Annual Work Plan. However, the road may be considered under the 2015 Road Sector Annual Work Plan, depending on the order of priority as submitted by the responsible local road authority.

Mr Speaker, estimates for this road can only be known once the road has been prioritised, surveyed and designed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I am very concerned because the area has had no road since Independence. Surely, …

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: There has been no road since Independence.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwanza: It is important that the Government takes this idea into account and prioritises it in the 2015 Road Sector Annual Work Plan like the hon. Deputy Minister has said.

Mr Speaker: Well, I am surprised that it has taken this turn. I thought that you were asking a question.

Laughter

Mr Kabimba, SC.: That is a comment.

FINANCIAL SITUATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ZAMBIA

470. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) what the total indebtedness of the University of Zambia (UNZA) was as of December, 2013;

(b) what practical steps the Government had taken to liquidate the debt;

(c) whether the UNZA management had the capacity to manage the finances of the institution prudently; and

(d) what the long-term solutions to the problem were.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Prof. Willombe): Mr Speaker, the total indebtedness of UNZA as at 31st December, 2013, stood at K1.798 billion. The debt relates to statutory, commercial and contractual obligations, amounting to K783.12 million, K135.08 million and K879.89 million, respectively. The debt will be liquidated gradually. There shall also be progressive increments in grants to the institution, at the same time ensuring that the management does not contract new debt. 

Sir, there is capacity to manage the finances of the institution prudently. At the moment, the major sources of income for the institution are from the Government grants and student fees which are expected to finance its operations. The long-term solution to the problem will include the following:

(a) increasing grants to finance operations;

(b) continuing to fund infrastructure; and

(c) coming up with a settlement plan for the debt;

Sir, the institution should also come up with initiatives such as PP… three Ps …

Interruptions

Prof. Willombe: … and business ventures. That is something that they are already …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Prof. Willombe: I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the failure to run UNZA is attributable to the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: When are you going to sort out these problems at UNZA because they have been there for the past ten years?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that UNZA is a quasi-Government institution that receives a grant from the State. It has a council and senate that are supposed to run its operations and raise funds for its operations.

Sir, at the moment, they are engaged in private-public-partnerships (PPPs) and business ventures with other institutions with a view to liquidating the debt.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm whether part of the problems of the management of finances at UNZA are that most of the former employees, including lectures, some of whom are in this House, have continued to be on the UNZA payroll.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, I am not privy to that information. I seek your indulgence to come back to the House later to give that information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he indicated that UNZA is a quasi-Government institution. Is he stating that the Government will no longer be responsible for financing the operations of UNZA, considering that it has had many financial difficulties?

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, all I said was that UNZA is a quasi-Government institution and that it receives a grant from the State to help it run its operations. I did not say that the Government would stop or has stopped funding UNZA. The Government will continue to do what is required of it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, how will the university liquidate its debt when the Government has written a circular to the effect that 60 per cent of whatever income the university gets will be returned to the Government? How is it going to liquidate the debt with that condition?

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, that issue is still under consideration. It will be a parallel programme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that one of the major reasons for the indebtedness of UNZA is arising from the human resource separation packages.

Prof. Wilombe: Mr Speaker, that question has many variables which require careful studying and understanding before I can give a correct answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Monze Central. Oh, you have already asked your question.

The hon.  Member for Kabwata.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Sorry.

Is the hon. Member for Kabwata ready?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

COPENHAGEN ACCORD ON CLIMATE CHANGE

471. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection what tangible benefits Zambia had gained from the Copenhagen Accord on Climate Change.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the tangible benefits that Zambia has gained from the Accord on Climate Change include technical and financial support from different co-operating partners that has enabled the country to undertake adaptation and mitigation projects. To this effect, a total of US$113 million has been received.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, may I find out how these benefits are trickling down to the ordinary person in Zambia.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the principle issue to do with climate change hinges on the quality of human life. Their ultimate aim is to manage that quality. In the intermediate, some of the projects are focused on enabling our communities, households and individuals to adapt and adjust in terms of livelihood.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to give clarification on how the people in Liuwa or those in Kalabo will benefit from this given that we are free to pollute as we wish?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, that question from Hon. Dr Musokotwane has some resemblance to the first supplementary question.

Mr Speaker, the climate change we are talking about has got no physical boundaries. We share the same globe. Pollution from the West is affecting residents in the Southern Hemisphere. If it is not mitigated, either in the west, south or east, it will still affect us. Therefore, we have to approach this issue at global level. We cannot afford to compartmentalise it.

Sir, apart from that, the Government signed a loan with the World Bank worth about US$90 million which will be implemented on the Zambezi West Plain and Kafue Basin. I can assure Hon. Dr Musokotwane that his constituents will benefit from that project.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, science indicates that the industrialised countries are responsible for the human-induced climate change as a result of their polluting the environment. Since they are responsible, they must be made to pay. I would, therefore, like to find out whether he thinks it is in order for the Republic of Zambia to obtain a loan to mitigate the negative effects of climate change and help with adaptation instead of holding the industrialised countries that are the polluters to account and making them to pay for the pollution that they have caused.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, Hon. Namugala, being a former Minister of Tourism and Environmental Protection, understands this and the debate that ensued at the Copenhagen Conference issue very well. Indeed, developing countries continue to challenge the industrialised countries to take up the major burden of mitigating the effects of climate change. Even if I agree with Hon. Namugala that we should not go for the loans for the same cause, the fact is that we are affected and cannot sit idly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that Kalabo is going to benefit from that money. Practically, how is Kalabo going to benefit?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I wish to repeat that this project touches on enabling our population on the Zambezi Plain to adapt to the changing climate. We are confident that the components of that project will benefit Kalabo as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, first of all, let me mention that I know that vegetation in general and trees in particular, are a factor with regard to issues of climate change. How is the hon. Minister reconciling whatever the accord is on climate change vis-à-vis Zambia and the fact that at the moment, there is wanton destruction of forests which will negatively affect us as far as climate change is concerned? How is he reconciling the two?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, out of the six projects that are direct beneficiaries of the accord, three of them have to do with forestry. Therefore, we are working on that issue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ZAMBIA’S IMAGE INTERNATIONALLY

472. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs what measures the Government had taken to promote the country’s image among the international community.

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, the Government has put emphasis on the transition from political diplomacy to economic diplomacy. The implementation of this transition can be evidenced by the influx of direct foreign investment into various sectors of the economy which reflects the international community’s perception of the country. This perception has come about as a result of the Government’s deliberate effort to promote the country’s image through various media such as press releases as well as bilateral and multilateral meetings. The Government further engages the diplomatic corps in …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, both on the left and right!

Mr Namulambe: … debriefing and consultative meetings as well as the annual greeting by the President. These were held this year in February and March, respectively.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in the process of developing a new foreign policy and strategic plan that shall ensure successful deployment of strategies aimed at promoting the country’s interest and image abroad. This is being done in full collaboration with stakeholders such as line ministries, civil society organisations and academia. The stakeholders have contributed to the process of identifying new strategies on how best to maximise national interests abroad and project a perfect image of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, one of the ways to project a good image of the country is through the State of the Nation Address by the President. May I know when the President is going to take up this challenge to ensure that certain perceptions that are held by foreigners of this country are corrected?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, if I followed the question correctly, the hon.  Member is talking about what measures have been taken by the Government to build the image of this country among the international community. One of the measures that I have elaborated in the answer is that it is through the bilateral and multilateral meetings that we hold with various countries. For instance, there are ambassadors and high commissioners that are accredited to Zambia, and we also have missions abroad. So, we engage people in those areas to promote the image of the country, hence the influx of people coming to invest in this nation. As for the State of the Nation Address that the hon. Member is talking about, if, for example, the President had to address the people of Kabompo, that would not make much impact on promoting investment among the people coming from Asia. This is because we have already marketed Kabompo through our missions abroad and have engaged the people that are representing Asian countries in Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MUSELE/KATUTA/SOBINGI ROAD

473. Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when the construction of the Musele/Katuta/Sobingi Road in Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

(b) what the cost of the project was; and

(c) what the time frame for the completion of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the contract for the construction of 52.2 km of Musele/Katuta/Sobingi Road in Luwingu has already been awarded. The formalisation of the contract awaits the release of funds by the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, the cost of the project is K65 million and the duration of the contract is twelve months.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister.  However, can he assure me whether there has been any effort that has been made by the ministry to write to the hon. Minister of Finance so that the funds can be released and we can see the commencement of the construction of this road?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware that the road in question is a very important road. So, the ministry is in touch with the Ministry of Finance to ensure that the road is given attention in terms of funding.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF KASAMA AIRPORT

474. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication why the Kasama Airport Runway had not been rehabilitated despite funds being allocated in the 2011 and 2012 budgets.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the Kasama Airport Runway has not been rehabilitated because the K2.8 million provided for in the 2011 Budget was inadequate for the construction of the runway. However, it is earmarked for full construction this year, and the new design and length is 3 km from the previous 1.8 km. The new runway will be capable of handling large aircraft like the Boeing 737-500. The contract was signed in May, 2014, at a contract sum of about K144 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether this programme to upgrade airports would, perhaps, include airports in Kalabo in view of the fact that tourism activities are now increasing in the Liuwa Game Park.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, our programme is aimed at having all the provincial centres have similar airports. All districts will have all-weather airstrips for smaller aircraft to land there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, with reference to the question that I asked, what guarantee can the hon. Minister give that the airport will be constructed on time given that there has been this delay for over three years that has caused a lot of concern? What guarantee is there that, indeed, this airport will be constructed within an acceptable period? Further, I would like the hon. Minister to indicate the duration of the construction of the new runway.

Col. Kaunda: Sir, he has the Government’s guarantee.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: What?

Mr Speaker: Your response was not clear, hon. Minister.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member asked for guarantee and I am assuring him that he has the Government’s guarantee over this project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: And the duration?

Col. Kaunda: Eighteen months from the time that the contract will be signed, Sir. The contractor will mobilise on site as soon as the Ministry of Finance gives us the funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I would like some guidance from the hon. Minister with regard to airports.

There are houses on the airstrip in Nyimba. Katete and Chadiza airstrips are also headed in the same direction. Do we have plans to have new airstrips and airports constructed and, if so, can the hon. Minister guarantee that?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the issue of encroachment on most airstrips is nationwide. We are trying to find new land where we can construct new airstrips. As the hon. Member said, the airstrip in Nyimba has been turned into a housing complex so we cannot develop an airstrip there. We will have to look for new land where we can put up a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the development of an airport in Kasama is cardinal because it will open up the Northern Circuit in terms of tourism. Also, we have had a very bad experience with the Kasaba Bay International Airport.

What mechanism has been put in place to ensure that works are not abandoned by the contractor as was the case with the Kasaba Bay International Airport?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, there are no bad soldiers, but only bad officers. Similarly, there are no bad contractors, but only bad supervisors. As a Government, we will prioritise supervision in all the projects that we are implementing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure me that airstrips such as Chadiza, which appeared in the last Budget, but were not funded will be considered in the next Budget.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, there was a notice from the Ministry of Finance for all of us to contribute to the next Budget. Therefore, if the hon. Member for Chadiza wants an airstrip in his area, he should submit it for inclusion in the next Budget.

I thank you, Sir. 
CHIEF MUTIPULA OF CHIPILI DISTRICT

475. Mr Mwila asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

 (a) when the Government would recognise Chief Mutipula of Chipili District;

 (b)  what had caused the delay in recognising the chief; and

 (c) what the stipulated time frame for recognising a chief was.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Speaker, the Government has already recognised Mr Wilford Kabamba Chipenge as Chief Matipula of the Chishinga people of Chipili District in Luapula Province through statutory instrument (SI) No. 34, dated 10th April, 2014. 

The ministry acted on the matter after receiving the minutes of the select committee. There is no time frame relating to the recognition of a chief since there are several steps which have to be taken in the process of recognising a chief.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to explain to this House and the people of Chipili how some chiefs in Muchinga Province have been recognised within three months, and yet it is taking three years to recognise the chiefs in Luapula Province.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwila: Can the hon. Minister explain why.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I stated in my response that there are procedures that are followed in recognising a chief. If there is a gap in the procedures, the documents are sent back to the districts as well as the clan to make sure that the procedure is followed. This is where the delay emanates from. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to show my deep appreciation for the innocent face of the hon. Minister as she answers the question.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, three years is a very long time. Assuming that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili is accurate with regard to the time that he has given regarding procedure as the reason delays may occur, what have you done, as a ministry, to make sure that you expedite the recognition of various chiefs, especially in Luapula Province?

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, my ministry has been created in order to create harmony in the chiefdoms. The ministry has a presence at district and provincial level where officers have been tasked to help the chiefdoms where these issues are raised by bringing together all the elders to make sure that the systems and procedures are expedited. This is the procedure we are following.

 I will not comment on the three years because the PF will only clock three years in office this September.

Interruptions

Mrs Kawandami: However, we have committees and institutions in place such as the House of Chiefs. We make sure that chiefs that attend meetings go back to their chiefdoms and sensitise the people about the procedures. Each tribe has its own system of electing chiefs and we are obliged to make sure that the systems are followed to the letter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): I thank you, Mr Speaker. {mospagebreak}

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for allowing me to raise this point of order.

Mr Speaker, I am a very concerned Member of Parliament with regard to the ability of our colleagues in the Executive to honour what they say on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that yesterday, in responding to Question No. 447 on the Order Paper relating to the Youth Empowerment Fund, Hon. Hamududu and I posed a question to the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport on when he was going to distribute the list of the Youth Development Fund beneficiaries so that we allay the fears of politicisation.

Sir, in response to the question, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport said the following:

 “Mr Speaker, we can do that even tomorrow.”

Sir, in my follow-up question, I asked him to state whether he was going to bring the list to the House today. In his response, the hon. Minister said:

“Mr Speaker, we are a very efficient Government. As I was going round the North- Western Province, I gave out the list of beneficiaries. I said that I will give you the information because I have it on my fingertips.”

Mr Speaker, it is now 1705 hours and I have been waiting patiently to receive the list, but I have not seen it. Is it in order for the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport not to honour his word by bringing the list of beneficiaries to the House? Is he in order to remain silent on this issue?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Well, there is no doubt about the account that has been stated in the point of order. I was equally pleased with that intimation from the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport. I have not yet checked with the Clerk on the state of affairs, but I just trust and hope that this information will be made available and circulated accordingly before the close of day.

Could the hon. Member for Dundumwezi continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, in responding to the question under consideration, the hon. Minister stated that the ministry has representation at both provincial and district levels. Would she then consider transferring officers from Muchinga Province where the process only takes three months to Luapula Province where it is clear that the officers have failed. Would the hon. Minister not consider transferring the officers from Muchinga Province to Luapula Province.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, we will not transfer officers because we know that they are all  efficient and perform their duties accordingly.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

BANK OF ZAMBIA MONTHLY WAGE BILL

476. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) what the total monthly wage bill for the Bank of Zambia was; and

(b) how much money in the form of loans was disbursed to the bank staff from 2012 to 2013, year by year.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am informed that the hon. Minister of Finance is attending to some National duties and he has asked the Chief Whip to respond on his behalf.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga) on behalf of the Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda)): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the expenditure on personal emoluments for 2013 amounted to K283.7 million compared to K281.6 million recorded in 2012.

Sir, the amounts disbursed to the Bank of Zambia staff in 2012 and 2013 were as follows:
 
Year  Amount (KMW)

2012  31,529,000

2013  15,981,000

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that when members of staff for the Bank of Zambia ask for loans, they are referred to commercial banks. I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think that is just a perception. I will give the hon. Member the following breakdown of loans for 2012:

Type of Loan    Amount (KMW)

House      1,295,000
Motor Vehicle    2,597,000 
Personal     3,213,000 
Staff Mortgages    450,000 
Personal-to-Holder Vehicle    15,229,000 
Multipurpose    8,745,000 
Total    31,529,000

I, therefore, think that is appropriate.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

______

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE ZAMBIA CHARTERED INSTITUTE OF LOGISTICS AND TRANSPORT, 2014

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga) on behalf of the Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda)): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled The Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport, 2014. The object of the Bill is as follows:

(a) to provide for the establishment of the Zambia Chartered  Institute  of Logistics and Transport and provide its powers and its functions;
 
(b) constitute the National Council for the Institute and provide for its functions and powers;

(c) provide for the qualifications for membership of the institute;

(d) provide for the registration of members to practice as logisticians or transportants;

(e)  provide for the constitution of the Disciplinary Committee and other committees of the institute; and

(f) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: the Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communication, Transport Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 11th July, 2014.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT OF HON. JUSTICE ROYDA MWANAKULYA CHINUNGI KAOMA AND MR MUMBA MALILA, SC., TO SERVE AS SUPREME COURT JUDGES AND HON. JUDGE MWAMBA CHANDA, MR LISHOMWA NAWA MUUKA, MS YVONNE CHEMBE AND MRS MWILA CHIBWE-KOMBE TO SERVE AS HIGH COURT JUDGES
 
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do now adopt the Report of the Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointment of Hon. Madam Justice Royda Mwanakulya Chinungi Kaoma and Mr Mumba Malila, SC., to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Hon. Judge Mwamba Chanda, Mr Lishomwa Nawa Muuka, Ms Yvonne Chembe and Mrs Mwila Chibwe-Kombe to serve as High Court Judges, for the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 10th June, 2014.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mwila (Chipili) I beg to second the Motion, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the purpose of the Motion before the House is to fulfill the requirements of Articles 93(2) and Articles 95(1) of the Constitution of Zambia for the appointment of Supreme Court and High Court Judges to be ratified by Parliament respectively. The term of reference of your Committee was, therefore, to scrutinise the suitability of the nominees to serve as Supreme Court and High Court Judges as the case may be.

Sir, in order to ensure that your Committee carried out this important assignment in a transparent and objective way, it sought written memoranda from security and investigative agencies of the State and public and private professional bodies, civil society organisations and the appointing authority. The witnesses were therefore requested to orally submit their memoranda. Your Committee also examined the curricula vitae of the nominees and interviewed them in person.

Mr Speaker, allow me to highlight some of the findings of your Committee. I say some, because I am under the assumption that hon. Members of this august House have read your Committee’s report in detail.

Sir, all the six nominees were cleared by the security and investigative agencies of the State. Your Committee was informed that none of the nominees has been the subject of any investigation of a criminal nature, at least, up to the time of your Committee adopting the report. Further, none of the nominees was overwhelmingly found to be unsuitable to hold their respective positions by the witnesses based on their professional standing. However, there were concerns that were raised on some of the nominees by some of the witnesses.

Your Committee, therefore, had to carefully consider the evidence on each nominee that was presented to it by witnesses and the nominees themselves to arrive at any of its decisions. Sir, allow me to briefly discuss some of the issues that were raised. Most Members of the House may be used to situations where Supreme Court Judges are appointed from among serving High Court Judges. It may, therefore, come as a surprise that Mr Mumba Malila SC., is being considered for the position of Supreme Court Judge when he is not a High Court Judge.

Mr Speaker, Article 97 of the Constitution specifies the qualifications that any candidate for the position of Supreme Court Judge, High Court Judges and Judge of the Industrial Relations Court should possess. In the same Article 97, there is a provision where some of the requirements may be relaxed in special circumstances.

After interacting with the witnesses, your Committee was informed that this is not the first time this was happening. The former Chief Justice Mr Mathew Ngulube, SC., was appointed from private practice to serve as Supreme Court Judge. According to some witnesses, he had distinguished himself on the Bench and later assumed the highest judicial position of Chief Justice of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, an issue was raised that the appointment of Hon. Madam Justice Roydah Mwankulya Chinungi Kaoma may be perceived by the public as a reward for having chaired the tribunal that investigated and cleared the alleged abuse of office by the then Minister of Tourism and Art, Mrs Sylvia Masebo, MP. Your Committee’s position is that this allegation cannot stand as the nominee was already acting as Supreme Court judge when the tribunal was constituted. Sir, your Committee was satisfied that the nominee’s appointment was based on merit.

Mr Speaker, on Hon. Judge Mwamba Chanda, there were complaints of delayed judgments involving her that were brought to the attention of your Committee. These complaints were connected to the previous judicial positions the nominee had held. The House may wish to know that the nominee is currently serving as a Judge in the Industrial Relations Court. Your Committee was informed that from the time she assumed the new position, no complaint has been lodged against her and that her performance at the Industrial Relations Court was exceptional.

Mr Speaker, some witnesses felt that Mr Lishomwa Nawa Muuka and Ms Yvonne Chembe did not have adequate litigation experience. On the contrary, after considering the work experience of the two nominees as given in their curricula vitae, your Committee found out that they actually had the necessary litigation experience.

Sir, after considering the submissions in their entirety, your Committee concluded that all the nominees possessed the minimum qualifications required for one to serve as a Judge in the Supreme Court and High Court, as the case may be. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the House ratifies the Presidential appointments of Hon. Madam Justice Roydah Mwanakulya Chinungi Kaoma and Mr Mumba Malila, SC., to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Hon. Mwamba Chanda, Mr Lishomwa Nawa Muuka, Ms Yvonne Chembe and Mrs Mwila Chibwe-Kombe to serve as High Court Judges.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, members of your Committee wish to express their appreciation to you for appointing them to serve on this Select Committee. Your Committee further wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the services that were rendered to it during its sittings. Your Committee is equally grateful to all the witnesses for the written and oral submissions that enabled it to successfully carry out the assignment.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mwila: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion to adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointment of Hon. Madam Justice Roydah Mwanakulya Chinungi Kaoma and Mr Mumba Malila, SC., to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Hon. Judge Mwamba Chanda, Mr Lishomwa Nawa Muuka, Ms Yvonne Chembe and Mrs Mwila Chibwe-Kombe to serve as High Court Judges, allow me first to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for ably moving the Motion.

Sir, the Chairperson has already pointed out the salient issues that caught the attention of your Committee during its deliberations. Therefore, I will not spend much time on them.

Mr Speaker, your Committee had an opportunity to interact with the various witnesses and nominees, and took note of the views expressed. Some of the witnesses expressed concern over the manner in which appointments were made. They stated that the public perception was that appointments of Judges were regional and so there was a need to have balanced appointments so that the Bench is seen to be fairly balanced regionally.

Sir, it is important to allay the fears of the general public as regards regional balancing because this is what leads to people thinking they would not receive a fair trial. Your Committee, therefore, implores the Government to ensure that all the regions benefit from the appointments. It is also important for the Government to state clearly how the appointments are being arrived at.

Sir, your Committee further observes that there are still a number of vacancies that need to be filled on both the Supreme Court and High Court benches and that the Judges currently on the Bench are overwhelmed with work. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Executive to expedite the appointment of Judges to fill the remaining vacancies on the benches.

Finally, Sir, I wish to pay tribute to your Committee for the manner in which it conducted its business and made recommendations that, in its view, are in the best interest of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I am a member of your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. For the first time, you allowed your Committee to take a tour of the Copperbelt and North-Western provinces to engage with the magistrates and Judges in the two provinces. What came out of the meetings with the Judges in particular was that there is a propensity in the Judiciary to appoint Judges from the private sector. Therefore, magistrates are wondering why most of them who have served for more than ten years on the Bench are being left out.

Therefore, Sir, the Judiciary should learn to recruit from its rank and file. The magistrates want to know why the Judiciary keeps recruiting from …

Mr Ng’onga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on this important point of order. Is the hon. Member for Mwandi in order to discuss matters that are in a pending report on your Committee’s tour which has not yet been tabled on the Floor of the House? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My understanding of this debate is that the House is considering the Presidential appointees for purposes of ratification. At this juncture, the House is not only considering the report which has been presented for adoption, but is also at liberty to debate matters that touch on this institution and, more specifically, on the manner in which Judges, magistrates and other ranks within the Judicial Branch of Government are affected.

So, to that extent, I do not see the hon. Member for Mwandi as debating the report, which you are referring to but, rather, commenting generally on the appointment process, criteria and the manner in which we should proceed. I think this is within the remit of hon. Members of Parliament to debate. This is the opportunity to counsel, especially our colleagues on my right. In this case, he is specifically pointing out that as we continue filling these vacancies, let us also bear in mind that there are professional men and women serving in the subordinate courts who also feel they deserve to be considered for these positions, and that we should not limit the appointments to professionals emanating from the private sector. I think that is the point the hon. Member for Mwandi is making. So, he is not out of order.

Dr Kaingu: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It looks like I am always right.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I wish everybody was always right.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am a focal point person of the Commonwealth African Human Rights Group, and I am very concerned when it comes to human rights being violated in this manner. There is no reason qualified magistrates cannot be appointed Puisne Judges and this was actually observed by the magistrates themselves. So, next time, as we debate the matters of Puisne Judges, we need to look at the magistrates who have served in the Judiciary for a long time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the House for the overwhelming support on this Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Questions put and agreed to.

_____________

The House adjourned at 1737 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 19th June, 2014.