Debates - Tuesday, 24th June, 2014 | National Assembly of Zambia

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 24th June, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

COMMONWEALTH PARLIAMENTARY ASSOCIATITION, ZAMBIA BRANCH, WORKSHOP

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), Zambia Branch, will hold a one-day seminar for all hon. Members of Parliament on Monday, 30th June, 2014, in the auditorium at Parliament Buildings from 0900 hours to 1600 hours. The seminar will address topical issues in the CPA, such as the relationship between Parliament and the media and the importance of female representation in Parliament and other decision-making positions.

I appeal to all hon. Members to attend this very important seminar.

I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

KONKOLA DEEP MINING PROJECT

484. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a) what prompted the Government to suspend the operations of the Konkola Deep Mining Project (KDMP) in Chililabombwe in February, 2O14;

(b) how much money, on average, was lost per day due to the suspension;

(d) what measures had been taken to avoid similar accidents in the future; and

(e) what action was taken against the officials who were responsible for the accident.

The Deputy Minister of Mines Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the suspension of operations at the KDMP was prompted by the occurrence of an accident at Shaft Number 4, in which seven people were injured. The suspension of operations was a safety measure taken to facilitate investigations into what had caused the accident and the making of the affected area safer. It is a normal procedure to close operations in an area to allow for investigations and to make the place safe whenever there is an accident.

Sir, on average, US$424,720 was lost per day due to the suspension of operations at the KDMP.

Mr Speaker, seven miners were injured in the accident. One of the seven was critically injured and evacuated to South Africa for specialist attention. He has since returned to Zambia. The others were treated at Konkola Mine Hospital.

Sir, the Government, through the Mines Safety Department (MSD), ensured that all recovery work was done after a comprehensive risk assessment and that authority to operate the Bottom Shaft Loading System was only granted after a satisfactory spillage handling system was put in place. Furthermore, the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) management organised seminars for all appointed officials to emphasise the need to put safety first if the operations were to be sustainable. Additionally, the mine manager was removed from running the shaft after the conclusion of investigations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that Parliament checks the behaviour and activities of the Government. Therefore, it is the duty of all Parliamentarians to do that.

Sir, this morning, I was listening to the radio and the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting was on air threatening any Zambian who wants to know where the President is or ask about his health. Meanwhile, in the Daily Nation, the same hon. Minister is, correctly, I believe, quoted saying that, “The President is not a family property, but a national asset”.

Sir, I agree with the hon. Minister that the President is a national property and belongs to all Zambians. Is he, therefore, in order to start issuing threats to any Zambian who may ask about the whereabouts of the President or his health?

Mr Deputy Speaker: If, indeed, the hon. Minister issued those threats, he was not in order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can we continue with Hon. Mwila’s follow-up question.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that we lost a miner yesterday despite the safety measures that he said were instituted? If he is aware, what is the ministry doing about it? Is it the new trend for us to continue losing miners at KCM?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we are aware that a miner died yesterday in an accident and we are investigating the matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

WITHDRAWAL OF OLD CURRENCY

488. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) why the exchange of the old currency, which had started on 1st January, 2013, would last for twenty-four months;

(b) how much money in rebased currency was printed as of 1st January, 2013;

(d) how much old currency was held by commercial banks as of 31st December, 2013;

(e) how much old currency, on average, was received by the commercial banks per day, from June to December, 2013; and

(f) whether the extended period of exchanging the old for the new one would not be a loophole for sophisticated crime.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, the exchange of the old currency, which commenced on 1st January, 2013, will last twenty-four months so as to give members of the public an opportunity to exchange the old for the rebased currency. This is because the far-flung areas of the country have inadequate or no banking services. As such, people, sometimes, have to travel very long distances to access banking services nearest to them to do the exchange. Further, it was decided that no citizen should end up losing out on their hard-earned money as a result of the rebasing exercise.

Sir, as at 1st January, 2013, K4.8 billion rebased was printed and minted.

Mr Speaker, as at 31st December, 2012, K3.8 trillion of the old currency was in circulation. Effective 1st January, 2013, when the Bank of Zambia (BOZ) issued the rebased currency, the bank also commenced the withdrawal of the old currency from circulation and, subsequently, the authenticated and recorded before the destruction process was started. Consequently, by 31st December, 2013, K3.7 trillion of the old currency had been withdrawn from circulation, of which K3.6 had been destroyed. The process of destroying the old currency is on-going.

Mr Speaker, as at 31st December, 2013, commercial banks held K3.5 billion in old currency.

Sir, on average, K322 million in the old currency was received by commercial banks per day from June to December, 2013.

Mr Speaker, all the old currency bank notes that have been withdrawn from circulation are deposited by commercial banks at BOZ. The cash deposits are processed for authenticity before BOZ destroys the notes to guard against counterfeits. Other measures put in place to guard against sophisticated crime include the following:

(a) commercial banks limit over-the-counter exchange of the old currency for the new currency to K10,000 rebased. Those wishing to exchange amounts above the counter limit of K10,000 rebased are advised to open bank accounts. In addition, commercial banks applied the established anti-money laundering guidelines during the cash exchange period; and

(b) BOZ also conducted a number of campaigns before and after the currency rebasing exercise to educate the public about security features of the rebased currency and alert the public on the need to be vigilant so as to guard against unscrupulous individuals who might take advantage of the cash exchange exercise to defraud the people of their hard-earned income through counterfeiting.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I come from a rural area, where we do not have commercial banks like the Zambia National Commercial (ZANACO) Bank yet. So, there are people who are still keeping their hard-earned money in the old currency. Is the old currency still legal tender? If it is not, how will the people of Lukulu and Mitete be able to exchange their old currency for the rebased one?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the old currency ceased to be legal tender, but it can be exchanged for the new currency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this very serious point of order.

Sir, the visit by our dear President to Israel has been surrounded by controversy. We have been informed that the President was invited by the out-going President of Israel. We are also reliably informed by the international media that the out-going Israeli President is actually not in his country, but in the United States of America (USA) where he has a series of meetings. Further, we are informed that the family of our President advised him to go on leave. On the other hand, we have been informed that the Government, through its own arrangements, facilitated the President’s visit to Israel. Is the Government in order to allow the country to speculate over issues that affect the governance of this country and the relationship between Zambia and Israel? Further, bearing in mind that our dear President has been snubbed by the out-going President of Israel, is the Government in order to continue being mute instead of coming to this House to clarify the matter so that speculations and innuendos are put to rest?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, to avoid speculation and innuendos, I think that it is only proper that I request the Leader of Government Business in the House, His Honour the Vice-President, who is not in the House currently, but I am sure that the Chief Whip can inform him, to make a statement on the matter so that it is put to rest.

Hon. Opposition Members: Tomorrow.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, I am ruling.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I request His Honour the Vice-President to make this statement by Thursday, 26th June, 2014. This means that, if he is ready to make the statement either today or tomorrow, then he can do so. However, Thursday should be the latest.

Hon. Member for Chadiza, you may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, upon coming into power, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government brought new bank notes which, like it, are fading very fast, especially the K2 and K5.

Laughter

Interruptions

Mr Mbewe: That being the case, has the hon. Minister of Finance got any plans to replace these notes with ones of better quality?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I would like to just guide that, while I appreciate that we are here to consider very important matters that are of interest to the citizens and ourselves, and if the idea of asking questions is to get answers to take to our constituents, I think, let us not do it in such a manner as to make it difficult for the other side to answer.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I will answer the component of the question that relates to the facts and steer away from value judgment and elaborate fiction.

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: All currency notes wear out with time. All the countries that use them continually replace them as they wear out. We also do that in Zambia and it is a continuous exercise. As soon as the notes look too worn out to be in circulation, they are replaced with new ones.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, we have been told that the destruction old currency is being done by BOZ. Who else is there at the destruction point? Further, is the destruction certificate issued and, if so, who issues it?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the integrity of BOZ as a national institution is beyond reproach.

Interruptions

Mr Chikwanda: As soon as the notes are verified and authenticated, it is the duty of BOZ to destroy them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Minister of Finance that all currency, especially notes, get spoiled after some time. However, is the Government, and specifically BOZ, not considering using polymer notes for the frequently used denominations, such as the K2 and K5?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, that is a very practical suggestion and we will forward it to BOZ for consideration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, while the idea of resorting to polymer notes is being considered, what will the Government do, in the interim, to effectively and continuously replace the notes, like the hon. Minister has stated, for the people in rural areas like Kalabo, where it is very difficult to find a good usable bank note? How will BOZ facilitate this exercise so that the new notes reach the rural areas?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, old notes all over the country are replaced. There is an adequate mechanism for collecting the old notes and issuing new ones in their place. We should not exaggerate the difficulties involved. Zambia is a highly sophisticated country. The withdrawal of the old currency and the issuance of the new one were done very smoothly, and that attests to the sophistication of our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, are there any plans to revalue the small coins like 5n and 10n, which cannot purchase any commodity on the shelf and are, therefore, very difficult for marketeers to use?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I think that it is not useful to make 1n and 2n coins, for example, because, as the hon. Member has rightly pointed out, they do not have any significant value.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, as a follow-up to the question asked by the hon. Member for Lumezi, I would like the hon. Minister to state on the Floor of this House, for the benefit of the rural population, who refuse to accept some of the coins, that all the coins are still legal tender. I think that it is better for the hon. Minister to do so so that the people listening can know that it is actually illegal or unlawful to refuse to accept legal tender.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I think, we really do not want to take issue with the people in that fashion. All we should do, as leaders, hon. Members and all the people who have a claim to leadership, is to just educate our people, who are not beyond being educated.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, in response to Hon. Mutelo’s question, the hon. Minister said that the old notes are not legal tender, but they can still be exchanged for new ones. Does that mean that the people in rural areas can continue using the old notes?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, they cannot use notes that are no longer legal tender. They have to exchange them. That is why, although some members of the public wanted the time for exchanging of notes to be very limited with time and allowed it to go on until December, 2015. We do not want anybody to lose money for which they have worked very hard.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, yesterday, I was presented with an invoice in United States (US) Dollars. Is it still the policy of the PF Government to allow such kind of practice by important traders in this country?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, preferably, all bills should be in kwacha. However, since the revocation of Statutory Instrument (SI) 33, people may quote in US Dollars.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, children out there are swallowing these coins that the PF Government has brought, and this is putting the health of the children at risk. I want to find out from the hon. Minister …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

Mr Kunda: What is the hon. Minister doing to protect our children’s health from this hazard?

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Iwe, ulepela abana ama coins?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let there be order, on my right!

Mr Chikwanda: I would like to inform Hon. …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

I think that it is becoming a habit for us to make running commentaries while seated. We should desist from doing that.

May the hon. Minister, continue.

Mr Chikwanda: Hon. Kunda has an insatiable appetite for exaggeration.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: However, it will be inappropriate and undesirable to criminalise that. If there are any children who have swallowed the coins, then, the evidence must be presented. I hope that it is not too late for the clinicians to attend to them.

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: We do not want to risk the health of our children who swallow coins. However, I think that those cases must be very rare, if any. I think, Hon. Kunda just wanted to lend a bit of liveliness to the discussion.

I thank you, Sir.

TEACHERS IN COMMUNITY SCHOOLS

489. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Educaction:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to facilitate the provision of formal training to teachers at community schools; and

(b) whether the Government had any plans to provide funding to the community schools to enable them pay teachers’ salaries.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the Government acknowledges the good work that community schools and their trained volunteer teachers continue to do in the educational sector. This is especially so in the remote rural areas.

Sir, the Government has been deploying qualified teachers on Government payroll to community schools and this will continue. Apart from that, the Government facilitates the formal training of community school teachers in more ways than one. We provide school-based continuous professional development to all teachers, including community school teachers. Let me single out the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) funded ‘Time to Learn Project’, which has complimented the Government’s efforts and targeted headteachers and teachers in community schools in formal training activities. To date, the programme has graduated 2,077 headteachers in education leadership management and 4,154 teachers in the new pedagogy, ‘Support Reading for Instruction in Early Grades’, this is countrywide.

In the long term, Sir, the Government is encouraging the ten primary school teacher training colleges to accommodate community school teachers who meet the barest entry requirements in their programmes. The Government also encourages community school teachers to upgrade their Grade Twelve certificates by re-writing either in June or November so that they are eligible for teacher training.

Mr Speaker, currently, the Government does not provide funding to community schools to pay untrained volunteer teachers their salaries. What we give to each District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) is a grant, 70 per cent of which goes to Government schools while 30 per cent goes to grant-aided and community schools for general operations of the schools.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, it is not the first time that we are tackling the issue of community schools. There are more community schools being established essentially because more parents want their children to be educated. Hon. Minister, since you are phasing out certificate-level teachers, would it not be prudent to put those teachers who are willing on a fast-track programme when the colleges of education are on recess to give them the relevant training so that you can incorporate them in your programmes?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is a very laudable suggestion and the ministry is looking at it. When we develop a more detailed and acceptable plan, we will inform the nation.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer given by the hon. Minister on this very important topic. It is a well known fact that, in the rural areas, there are very high levels of poverty. We are also aware that the policy that the hon. Minister has just explained, whereby teachers will be taken over, seconded or attached to community schools is taking a bit long while parents in rural areas are getting fatigued by paying the teachers. In the end, most of the community schools lose all the teachers and close down. Will the ministry assist the communities to be recruiting untrained teachers (UTs) like we used to have under the United Nation Independence Party (UNIP) and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Governments? The UTs can assist in educating the poverty-stricken people’s children.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there is a very vigorous programme of sending qualified teachers on Government payroll to community schools, but it is the big number of community schools that does not allow much of the progress we have made to be seen. There is a big number of teachers going into these schools and we would like to continue with that. Coming to the question of UTs, looking at the number of grade twelve school leavers countrywide, that is another programme that the ministry is exercising its brains on. We were not able to formalise it last year, but we will still consider it as an option.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good responses. That done, I would like to relate the question to the situation in Kwacha Constituency, which is similarly a rural setting and has community schools. I hear from the hon. Minister that 30 per cent of the budget to the districts is for community schools, but we do not seem to benefit from that. I would like to see the hon. Minister push for that money to actually be spent on community schools. Further, could the USAID-funded programme be extended …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kwacha, please, ask your supplementary question. Do not make a statement. Have you asked your question?

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, can the USAID-funded programme be extended to the rural part of Kwacha Constituency.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I do not want to be misquoted. I indicated that we do not send money to the districts for them to pay community school teachers. Instead, we send a little money in the form of grants to the DEBS offices to enable them to help schools with general operational costs. Out of the total amount, each DEBS is mandated to give 70 per cent to Government schools and 30 per cent to other schools, including community schools.

Sir, as regards the USAID-funded project that hon. Mutale has mentioned, the onus is on him to work with the DEBS in his area. That way, the DEBS will understand where the needs are. The DEBS are in every part of Zambia and should be used by hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, sometime back, the hon. Minister announced that the Government, and his ministry in particular, was considering taking over the running of community schools. How far have they gone with that arrangement?

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Tom and Jerry.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order.

Laughter

Mr Chansa: Question!

Mr Mbewe: It is true, Mr Speaker. However, this particular point of order is so important that even those who are trying to prevent it will benefit from it.

Sir, is the hon. Minister, who is looking at me like that, …

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: … in order …

Hon. Member: Which one?

Mr Mbewe: The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, my brother from another mother.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Sir, during the last sitting, the hon. Minister promised this House that he would give us an infrastructure development plan (IDP) so that we would know which schools in our constituencies are due for construction. However, to date, that plan is nowhere to be seen. Is he in order not to come to the House and give us the document that he promised?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I take that point of order as a reminder to the hon. Minister for him to come up with the IDP as promised. Hon. Minister, please, avail the House the infrastructure plan.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Rufunsa may continue.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, sometime last year, the hon. Minister announced that the Government was considering taking over the running of community schools. Has that policy been abandoned?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, let me start by responding to hon. Mbewe’s point of order.

Sir, yes, it is true that I promised this House the IDP so that we could plan together. However, when the final draft came out, I was not satisfied with the content. So, I did not sanction it. Unfortunately, I forgot to come back and report that development to this House. However, what I can say is that this year’s IDP …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. However, I would like to say that, normally, we do not allow points of order on hon. Ministers.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I agree. However, you have ruled that the hon. Minister should avail the House the IDP, but he is qualifying your ruling. Is he in order not to accept your ruling?

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is why I allowed you to raise your point of order.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, come up with the IDP whenever are ready.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. We will avail the House the IDP, particularly the one for this year, since we have 220 schools that will be upgraded. Hon. Members of Parliament should know, exactly, where the schools are in case they are not in touch with their DEBS in their constituencies.

As regards the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Rufunsa, let me say that the announcement that was made was not as he has represented it. What the Government is doing is upgrading community schools into full Government schools. We are neither phasing out nor abolishing community schools because we have no capacity to do that immediately. This remains the Government’s position until we have enough funding to take over all the community schools. By the way, the number of community schools is colossal. We are running training programmes to enable community schools to provide good education services to our children because we know that the community schools will be with us for some time to come.

Sir, you will recall that, when I announced the Grade Seven results, I said that community schools had ranked third in terms of the quality of the results. The first were private schools, which were followed by mission schools. My own Government schools came fourth, meaning that the interventions we are making in the community schools are bearing fruit. We are slowly beginning to think that, maybe, given more training, they could give our children better education. So, we have not abandoned them. With our budgetary allocations, we are able to upgrade a few, not more than one hundred per year, even though I wish we could upgrade more. However, this is a situation we have accepted and will do the best we can as a Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for acknowledging the importance of community schools in the education sector. However, now that he has realised that he is not able to take over the running of the community schools currently, would he not consider paying the volunteer teachers a little token to make them more effective, instead of just ending at paying for general operations?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the idea is to upgrade community schools to acceptable standards. The Government remains committed to that ideal and there will be no failure in this. I have just indicated that, although we would like to upgrade the schools en masse, we have no capacity to do so. However, that does not mean that we have abdicated our responsibility.

Mr Muntanga: The teachers.

Dr Phiri: As regards the payment of a little token to the volunteer teachers, we may find it a bit problematic although it is something that we can investigate. We may hit a rock if we gave taxpayers’ money to volunteer untrained teachers.

Sir, I want to add that on Friday, 27th June, 2014, I will be officially commissioning the Teaching Council, and we may want to give it the homework of ascertaining the feasibility of this proposal.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, is the ministry able to send, at least, one trained teacher to each of the community schools that have no trained personnel so that the trained teacher can guide the untrained ones?

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I am really sorry to disturb the hon. Member who was just concluding his question.

Sir, is on the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to indicate that taxpayers’ money cannot be used to pay volunteer teachers, who are educating the children of this country on behalf of Zambians, in general, and his ministry, in particular, which is responsible for teaching all the children, including those in the villages?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lumezi, please continue. The hon. Minister will respond to the point of order as he answers your question.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, could the ministry send, at least, one trained teacher to every community school that has no trained staff so that the trained teacher can guide the untrained ones on how to impart knowledge to our children.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we have similar thoughts. That is why we have accelerated the deployment of trained teachers to as many community schools as possible. However, because of the large number of community schools, we are not able to make an immediate impact. Suffice it to say that that is the direction we are taking. Therefore, you are not very far from what we are thinking.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Phiri: I support you. Hon. Member of Parliament, these are called community schools because it is the communities that start them after realising that the Government has no capacity to simultaneously build and run schools everywhere. That is why I started my response to the principal question by thanking the communities for this initiative and giving them a little hope that, given enough resources, we will upgrade their schools so that we relieve our parents, many of whom are very poor, of this responsibility. That was my explanation.

Sir, in the context community schools, it will be very difficult to spend money and monitor its usage. Many of the schools are under the Zambia Open Community Schools (ZOCS), a gazetted organisation, and it will not be prudent for the Government to undermine the organisation.

I thank you, Sir.

PROCUREMENT OF DRUG DETECTING EQUIPMENT

490. Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) why the Zambian Government turned down a South American country’s offer to supply us with state-of-the-art drug detecting equipment for installation at Kenneth Kaunda, Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe and Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula international airports in preference to sub-standard Chinese equipment, which was procured at US$3 million;

(b) why the supplier was awarded a contract without following tender procedures; and

(c) whether any action would be taken against the officers who were involved in awarding the contract and, if no action would be taken, why.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwiimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government did not turn down any free offer of supply of the state-of-the-art drug detecting equipment because no one offered any such equipment to the Government. It is also important to note that the procurement of drug detecting equipment was not done by the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, but by the Ministry of Home Affairs, through the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). The Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) procured three security walk-through body scanners for Kenneth Kaunda, Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe and Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula international airports from Westminster International Limited, which is a reputable supplier incorporated in the United Kingdom (UK), at K2,362,128.

Mr Speaker, we believe that public procurement regulations were fully complied with in the purchase of the scanners. However, if evidence surfaces proving the contrary to have been the case, action will be taken against the officers involved.

I thank you, Sir.

NEW CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMME

491. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a) when the new Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) would commence;

(b) who the programme would be targeted at;

(d) what would happen to the Child Grant Programme (CGP) in the Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Mphande): Mr Speaker, the SCTS is not a new programme. The Government has been implementing the programme in selected districts since 2003 and, this year, a decision was reached to scale it up to the rest of the districts not served.

Mr Speaker, the programme targets incapacitated and extremely poor households, not individuals.

Mr Speaker, the SCTS is already being implemented in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency, since 2010.

Mr Speaker, the CGP will eventually be phased out when the children currently on it reach the age of five. The households will automatically graduate from the programme and no new beneficiaries will be enrolled as the targeting will be converted into the inclusive model supporting the incapacitated and extremely poor.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, is there any opportunity for other children of families whose children are phased out from this programme to be enrolled into the programme?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, yes, there is a provision for that. In the event that these children want to get back on the programmes and are found to be in need, they will be able to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, does the ministry haves plans to extend this programme to Pemba Constituency, which also has very poor people?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, the ministry is putting things in place to ensure that that is done. This is an on-going programme that is being rolled out countrywide. Therefore, Pemba will also be catered for.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, this programme has been there for some time. So, why is it that Chipili Constituency has been left out?

Mr Muntanga: Eh!

Mr Mwila: Can you explain why?

Hon. Opposition Members: Boko Haram!

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, like I have already said, this exercise will be implemented countrywide, and Chipili will equally be a beneficiary.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister was responding to the first question, she mentioned that the programme will be scaled-up to other districts. However, the hon. Minister was not specific in terms of which districts will benefit. In Bwacha Constituency, we have a very big shanty compound called Makululu, which is the second largest after Soweto. When will this programme be scaled up to Kabwe and, specifically, Bwacha Constituency and the people of Makululu?

Interruptions

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, as I have already mentioned, this is an on-going programme. As a ministry, we are identifying areas where this programme is needed, and officers are on the ground in the districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister, who seems so generous as to assure everybody that they will get the SCTS, aware that the programme is subject to budgetary allocations? Do you not think that it is better to refer to the budgetary allocation and show which areas will receive this programme instead of giving blanket assurances?

The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Wina) (on behalf of the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Kabanshi)): Mr Speaker, the SCTS is one of the strategies that this Government has adopted as a means to poverty reduction in the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Wina: Sir, when the PF Government came into power, it found that only nineteen districts were covered by the programme. However, since taking over the reins of power, we have extended it to fifty-one districts, which means that we still have fifty more districts to cover. So, as resources are made available to the ministry, we will eventually cover more districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, does this good programme have a donor component? If it does, who are the donors?

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, yes, we have had a few donors supporting this programme. The British, under the Department for International Development (DfID), the Finish Government and the World Bank are all contributing to it. Perhaps, I have even one or two other donors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, there is nothing worse than living in squalor, yet be surrounded by people who are well off. Why have the people of Mahopo …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … in Kabwata Constituency, who live under serious poverty, never been considered in this programme?

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, a poverty mapping was done throughout the country and it was discovered that some people in Mahopo were, perhaps, better off compared to others, particularly those in rural areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Wina: So, that is why the programme started from where it did.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, when does the Government hope to touch all parts of this country with this programme?

Mr Deputy Speaker: If I remember well, the answer to that question has been given already and it is that, as and when the resources become available, the programme will continue to be rolled out. So, I think that we should go to the next question.

DEVELOPMENT BANK OF ZAMBIA LOANS

492. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) how much money the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) lent to various business houses as of December, 2013:

(b) of the total loan, how much was in the category of ‘bad debt’; and

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the DBZ had lent out K340,936,498.08 as at December, 2013.

Sir, K37,991,260.31 was in the category of bad debts.

Sir, the bank is guided by its debt recovery policies and procedures in recovering bad and doubtful debts. Clients’ loan accounts performance is monitored on a continuous basis.

Mr Speaker, as a development finance institution, the bank’s first line of defence is to work out recovery programmes and plans for the projects in order to help turn-around of operations of the clients. If this fails, the bank proceeds to recover monies by enforcing its legal rights through the foreclosure proceedings using the rights in the collateral instruments at its disposal.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that most of the business houses that borrow from the DBZ are well-to-do, yet they are the ones causing bad debts. Does the Government have any deliberate policy to also allow the lower class income business houses to borrow from bank, other than lending to the well-to-do business houses only?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, we are concerned about inclusiveness. That is why when we gave the bank US$20 million from the Eurobond and insisted that the money be channelled to the small medium and enterprises (SMEs). We also put a cap on the interest factor, that the bank cannot lend beyond 9 per cent. We are very concerned, but we need more resources in the DBZ so that the lending can be to a wider clientele, not just a few people in Lusaka and other urban areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, is the bad debt as a result of Government interferences in favour of certain business houses by shielding them from meeting their obligations to the bank on time?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the bad debt component of the bank’s lending is K37 million, which is very small. The Government does not intervene. People are very fond of the word ‘interfere’. If I own something and I want to see how it is doing, that cannot be called interfering. The Government owns the DBZ and, sometimes, we want to see what is going on there. In fact, it is the function of this House to critically look at Government-owned institutions to see if they are doing the right things. The word ‘interference’ must be contextualised. The Government does not want to get involved in the daily running of the bank. The issue at stake is the small resource base at the bank’s disposal. We would like a wider resource base for it so that we can lend on a much wider scale than is currently the case.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, have there been any demonstrative positive impacts of the projects funded by DBZ loans disbursed? Is there anything positive that we can see in terms of development?

Hon. Opposition Member: In South Africa.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, because of the scanty resource base, the impact is not very significant, but there are some projects that are very viable that the bank extended lending to. An example is the Kapiri Glass Factory, which will start producing before the end of this year, and the Kabwe Industrial Fabrics Company (KIFCO) in Kabwe, which is a major industry in what looks like a ghost town.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo: Sir, we have been told the actual amount of the bad debt. Is the hon. Minister able to tell us how much the provision for bad debt was during the same period?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, it is within the purview of the bank to provide for bad debt, but most banks are reluctant to do so, as the thrust is towards recovering as much of that debt as possible. However, I will repeat that the bad debt of K37 million out of the total lending book is very small. Further, not all of the bad debt is beyond recovery. The bank will strive to recover as much as possible, taking into account the cost of recovering such debt.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, are you sure that you can tell Zambians that K37 million is a small amount of money? This is K37 billion in the old currency.

Sir, considering that some people who owe the Zambian people through this bank are known and are being shielded, is the hon. Minister seriously saying that this is a small amount?

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Laughter

Mr Livune: Is he seriously saying that this is a small amount of money when we know that his Government is shielding people who owe the bank huge sums of money?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I would plead with my honourable brother not to be so angry.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: He wants his money.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the bad debt is small relative to the total book value or volume of the lending. If the total volume of the lending is several billions, then, K37 million becomes 1 or 2 per cent. All banks have bad debts, but the bank will take every considerable precaution to stiffen the lending procedure so that it does not have embarrassing incidents of bad debts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Finance confirm that, within the scheme of what he is comfortably referring to as a small debt without knowing the provision of bad debt, his Government intends to cancel debts owed by some hon. Ministers in the administration and their cronies.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I will not deprive the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central the opportunity to indulge in fantasy. However, from the facts available to me, there is not a single hon. Minister, hon. Deputy Minister of hon. Member of Parliament who owes the DBZ money currently.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, by definition, a bad debt is money that you can never recover. Do those who borrow give collateral so that the collateral can be sold to pay off the debt in case they default?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, K37 million represents so many people who have borrowed and some of the money that has not been paid breaks down into smaller amounts. No lender wants to forfeit its resources or the right to recover money from the borrowers. Every considerable measure is taken to recover the money. Some of the debts have been outstanding for a long time. So, let us not over-dramatise things. The bank is doing well, overall, and people are paying. The culture of servicing loans in Zambia is improving quite a bit.

I thank you, sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, how solvent is this bank that you can say K37 million is a little money? How much is the bank’s worth and what are its assets?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwandi has asked a very pertinent question. The assets of the bank are very large in relation to the K37 million. That is why I am saying that hon. Members are misplacing their desire for drama.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, in this K37 million, which K37 billion …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise what I consider a very serious point of order.

Sir, the hon. Members who are asking questions on this very important issue represent the Zambian citizens out there, who do not enjoy the privilege we do, that of asking the hon. Minister …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you speak a little louder.

Mr Mweetwa: … to clarify these issues that are important to the nation.

Is he, therefore, in order to refer to us as having a misplaced desire for drama when we are actually trying to seek clarification on this very important issue on behalf of the people of Zambia? Is he in order to say that, especially that we, unlike him, are elected by the people of this country?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: You have adequately debated your point of order, which makes it difficult for the Chair to make a ruling.

May the hon. Member for Kabompo West continue, please.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the K37 million bad debt inclusive of the debt owed by the defunct Zambian Airways?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on both sides!

You can continue, Hon. Lufuma.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the ‘meagre amount’ of K37 million …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member currently on the follow in order to cite an issue concerning Zambian Airways which is actively before the courts of law?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am unable to make a ruling because I am not sure whether what you are referring to is what the hon. Member said.

Can the hon. Member on the Floor continue, please.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I was asking the hon. Minister whether the K37 million bad debt owed to the DBZ includes the money owed by Zambian Airways.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I now understand where the point of order came from. However, the hon. Minister may still answer the question.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I do not know the details of the composition of the bad debt but, if the information is really needed, I will ask the DBZ to provide a breakdown of the debt. However, I do not think that the debt owed by Zambian Airways can be categorised as a bad debt yet. However, if the hon. Member so insists on knowing the date of this bad debt, which has its origins in quite a distant past, we can ask for the pertinent details from the bank.

Mr Speaker, let me also take this opportunity to assure Hon. Mweetwa that I have very deep respect for hon. Members of Parliament as representatives of our people. Ordinarily, I never disparage their questions, feelings or opinions because I know that they represent the feelings of our people.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

FORMER RAILWAY SYSTEMS OF ZAMBIA EMPLOYEES’ TERMINAL BENEFITS

493. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would pay terminal benefits to all the former employees of the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ).

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the payment of terminal benefits to the former employees of the RSZ is not an event, but a process. The Government did not retire the former RSZ employees after taking over the concession, but took over employees with their prevailing conditions of service. The Government would only have been able to compute the terminal benefits for the employees if the intention was to retire them immediately.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

We are not listening on my right.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Government will only be able to compute the terminal benefits of the former RSZ employees if a restructuring of the company becomes necessary. If the restructuring ever becomes necessary, it should be done in a phased manner, considering the financial position of the company.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members indicated.

Mr Deputy Speaker pointed at Hon. Kapyanga.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, when I point at you, just know that I am stuck on your name.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the payment of benefits is a process. However, a process must have a time frame. What timeframe has been given for the workers to receive their money?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, whenever an employee is retrenched, he is paid the benefits.

I thank you, Sir.

GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES IN NEWLY-CREATED DISTRICTS

494. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Vice-President:

(a) why employees in the newly-created districts like Sikongo, Mwandi and Sioma were not yet on the Government payroll;

(b) what measures the Government had taken to alleviate the accommodation hardships faced by employees who were not yet on the payroll; and

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, following His Excellency the President’s creation of new districts across the country, the Government approved the final establishment of 202 positions per district. So far, twenty-nine districts have been created, including nine in the Western Province, namely, Mulobezi, Nalolo, Nkeyema, Mwandi, Sioma, Sikongo, Mitete, Luampa and Limulunga.

Sir, in an effort to operationalise the structures, the Government decided to adopt the phased approach, whereby each district starts with seventy-eight positions with Treasury authority. In this regard, seventy-eight employees were recruited per district. However, placement on the payroll has only been done when those who have reported for work after recruitment…

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Normally, when His Honour the Vice-President or the hon. Ministers are answering, we tend to discourage points of order. So, please, let us follow our rules.

Continue, His Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let him finish.

The Vice-President: Sir, I am answering the question. Where is the problem?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Your Honour the Vice-President!

Continue with your response. I have already made a ruling.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, what happens in phased recruitment is that seventy-eight employees are recruited per district, but only those who report for work after the recruitment are put on the payroll while the others are put on the payroll as and when they report.

Mr Speaker, employees who have reported for work following their recruitment have been put on payroll and receive housing allowance.

Sir, the Government has already embarked on the construction of high, medium and low-cost housing units for the different levels of civil servants in some of the new districts. The land for the residential development has already been identified and surveyed, and a progress report was produced.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I can now give you your point of order, Hon. Miyutu.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Did you rise on a point order or you wanted to ask a question?

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, since you have given me the…

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, I am asking if you rose on a point of order.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, my follow-up question is…

Mr Deputy Speaker: You have a point of order.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, my point of order is, when His Honour the Vice-President rose, he started giving answers without referring to the questions. So, the listeners did not know which questions His Honour the Vice-President was responding to.

Mr Deputy Speaker: When I called for the question, you said that it was “Question 494”. So, if the people were listening, they should have known that he was answering Question 494.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, my argument is that His Honour the Vice-President did not read the question, but just went straight to give the answer. So, was he in order to give the answer without reading the question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that there is no hard and fast rule on that issue because, when you raise a question and somebody goes straight to an answer, he has still answered the question. So, I think that he is in order.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, can I now ask my follow-up question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Yes, you can ask your follow-up question.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, whether somebody is a driver or a head of department, he or she is known as a Government worker.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in this House, Mr Mwanamwambwa, the then Hon. Speaker, once directed that hon. Ministers should read the questions when giving answers so that people can understand. Therefore, is it now in order for His Honour the Vice-President to ignore that directive?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The problem in your wanting to challenge the ruling of the Chair arises from that same thing. You are referring to Speaker Mwanamwambwa, but I am now the Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let me clarify this issue. For example, Hon. Ntundu’s question was 492 and it had parts (a), (b) and (c) et cetera. If, in the process of answering the question, the hon. Minister said that he was answering part (a) of the question, will you say that he has not answered the question because he did not read it?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Deputy Speaker: So, my ruling is valid.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Ema Chairmen aba.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I have heard the answer given by His Honour the Vice-President, but these employees …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised, and that will be the last point of order on this debate.

Mr Shakafuswa: I thank you Mr Speaker, and this is a very important point of order.

Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President being fair to the people who are listening on the radio, who do not know what we have on the Order Paper? How will they know the questions asked if he does not read them before answering?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: There is no serious ruling other than the one I have already made.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the response given by His Honour the Vice-President still leaves me with worries for the workers, who have now clocked nine months without being put on the payroll. When will the full process of recruiting them be completed? We are only remaining with three months to go before the year ends. How will this Government effect the payment of the nine-months salary arrears for those people to whom survival has been a struggle?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that information is not at hand and, even if you read the question, this question is not part of it. So, I am afraid, I am unable to answer that question, which is essentially a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, why is this Government so cruel …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I said that there would not be any more points of order on that matter.

Can the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Mr Ndalamei: … to the people it employed, but is now failing to pay. It has been nine months since they were employed, but they have not received their salaries.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why they employed people whom they have failed to pay.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know where the nine months come from. I explained that the person selected has to be legitimately recruited, report for work and be on the Treasury’s approved list before they can be paid. If it is true that there has been a delay spanning nine months, I think that a question of an urgent nature should be raised because that is a very serious matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the issue that is being raised by the hon. Members is that the employees have been employed by the Government in these respective newly-created districts, but they are not being paid because they have not been put on the payroll. The question is, why are they not being paid, taking into account that they have been reporting for work for the past nine months?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is an assertion. I do not know whether it is true or not.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is true.

The Vice-President: If it can somehow be demonstrated, I will be more impressed. Currently, what we have is an assertion that people have not been paid for nine months despite qualifying in terms of both Treasury authority, being qualified professionally and reporting for work. That is an assertion I cannot respond to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, a question similar to this one was asked on Friday, 20th June, 2014. Has His Honour the Vice-President taken the trouble to ask the Permanent Secretary …

Hon. Opposition Members: Or the hon. Minister.

Mr Mutelo: … or the hon. Minister for the Western Province to clarify the matter?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, no, I have not yet taken that step.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Hon. Siamunene is there.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I did not hear His Honour the Vice-President’s response because some of you were making noise while he was answering.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, given the challenges that have been highlighted and associated with this newly-created district, does His Honour the Vice-President agree and confirm before this House that the districts were created without a due thought process and credible plan? In other words, they were haphazardly created because the PF has run out of ideas. It does not know what to do and thinks that the creation of districts equals development.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, apart from its gratuitous insult element, the question really comes down to whether the people we are talking about are the few who were wrongly employed or not qualified …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … or they are the entire eighty-three or eighty-five people in each district who have not been employed. I would like to know this before we proceed any further. Of course, there are errors in employment. There is nepotism and some irregularities, but the question should be on whether this is a systematic assault on the rights of those people or not. My belief is that it is not.

I thank you, Sir.

RENOVATION OF KALWELWE RURAL HEALTH CENTRE

495. Mr Mushanga asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the Poverty Reduction Programme (PRP) funds for the renovation of Kalwelwe Rural Health Centre in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency were released;

(b) what materials had, thus far, been procured using the funds;

(d) if not, what the reasons for the failure to commence the works were; and

(e) what the cost of renovating the health centre was.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the PRP funds for the renovation of Kalwelwe Rural Health Centre were released in 2012.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Hon. Members, in one vein, we say that we want the people listening to the debates on the radio to hear, in another, we are making it difficult for that to happen. Let us consult quietly so that we and the general public can hear the hon. Minister.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the procurement of various building materials, such as cement, ceiling boards and paints, was done in 2013.

Sir, works have already commenced and are being undertaken by the Buildings Department of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.

Sir, the cost of renovating the health centre is K180,000, broken down into K150,000 for building materials and transport, and K30,000 for labour.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, why was the procurement of materials only done in 2013 when the funds were released in 2012? That is a delay of one year.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the PRP funds were released directly by the Ministry of Finance to the provincial administration, which has to follow tender procedures before implementing projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the projects that were supposed to be …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this very important point of order. I apologise to my elder brother who is on the Floor for interrupting his debate. My point of order borders on a matter that is of grave importance to the nation.

Sir, on Friday, 20th June, 2o14, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock announced the maize floor price to this House, but the price has since been rejected by the farmers and farmers’ unions, who are the main stakeholders, who claim that the correct price should be K92. Last night, around 2000 hours, I watched a clip on the national broadcaster, Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), in which the North-Western Province Farmers’ Union rejected this price because it did not reflect the cost of producing maize. Is this PF Government, through the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, in order to remain quiet and not respond to the farmers?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Your point of order lapses because it is now 1615 hours.

Laughter

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, before Hon. Mweetwa’s point of order and suspension of business, I had started asking a follow-up on the hon. Minister’s response to Question 495.

Sir, is the hon. Minister aware that the money allocated to the projects in 2013 was not released? If he is, could he tell us when the money be released.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we received funding for some, not all, infrastructure development projects in 2013. We have continued to receive the funding. So, when funds have been availed this year, we will complete all the projects budgeted for in 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

KAPUTA STREET LIGHTING

Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) how much money was released to Kaputa District Council for street lighting;

(b) whether the funds were sufficient; and

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, K200,000 was released to Kaputa District Council for street lightning. The original project was to light 3km, but the amount released was only enough to cater for 1.2km.

Sir, for now, there are no funds available for allocation to the project. Therefore, the project will be completed when the balance of funds has been made available from the Treasury.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, as I stand here, no street lighting has started in Kaputa. Is the K200,000 sufficient for the project, bearing in mind the distance and other challenges that Kaputa faces? Are the funds sufficient or will more money be given to us?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, the distance that was earmarked for street lighting in Kaputa is 3km. However, the amount of money that was sent to Kaputa District Council was K200,000, which was not enough. The money released was only able to cater for 1.2km. We will release the balance after all the initial processes have been completed and the monies received from the Treasury.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about street lighting, a project meant to be implemented in several districts. While he says that the money sent to Kaputa was inadequate, at least, there was an amount sent. In some other districts, there was absolutely no money sent. Would the hon. Minister be kind enough and tell this House why other districts were not given any money when districts like Kaputa have received, at least, some money.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I agree with what the hon. Member for Kalomo Central has said. However, we only considered forty-one districts and are yet to cater for more as long as funds are made available to us. The hindrance is that we have not yet received enough money from the Treasury to enable us to cater for other districts that have not yet received any money.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, I stand to be corrected.

Sir, the hon. Member for Kaputa said that there is no street lighting being done in Kaputa, yet the hon. Minister said that K200,000 was released for lighting 1.2km. If the project has not started, do you not think that the released money will no longer be enough for the 1.2km because of the depreciation of the kwacha?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I have indicated that the project has delayed because the procedures have not yet been completed. Currently, the information that we have, as a ministry, is that the tender process is under evaluation.

As regards to the depreciation of the Kwacha, Sir, that concern could be considered if the local authority makes a request for an additional funding.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has acknowledged that the money that was allocated to Kaputa District is not enough because the plan is to light 3km, yet the K200,000 will only cater for 1.2km. How much more money is the ministry considering giving the district?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, the estimated total cost for the entire project is K600,000.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, taking into account the fact that K200,000 has already been released for this project, what will happen in the event that no other monies will be sourced to complete it?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, like I have indicated, in the event that additional funding is not sourced, they will only work on the 1.2km that I have already mentioned.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, what should have comes first? Is it the release of the K200,000 or the tendering? I ask because the hon. Minister has said that the money was released, yet the 1.2km has not been worked on because the tendering process has not been completed. Why is that portion not being worked on if the ministry has released the K200,000?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, normally, what happens is that we wait to get funding from the Ministry of Finance before starting the tender process. We have to be assured of the availability of the money first.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the total amount required is K600,000 but, so far, only K200,000 has been released. Why, then, does the ministry want the local authority to request some more money when they know the deficit?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, the tender process is not managed by the ministry. On the other hand, the money is released by the Treasury, through the ministry, to the local authorities. However, when the tender process has been completed, but it is discovered along the way that the money is not enough, it is the responsibility of the local authorities to notify the ministry about the deficit, which might be caused, for example, by the depreciation of the kwacha that the hon. Member for Lumezi has mentioned.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ZAMBIAN HARBOURS

497. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) how many harbours were in Zambia;

(b) how many harbours were operational as of December, 2013;

(d) what the performance of the concessioned harbours had been; and

(e) whether the Government had any plans to take over the operations of all the harbours.

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, there are nineteen harbours in Zambia.

Sir, all the nineteen harbours were operational as of December, 2013.

Mr Speaker, there is no harbour that had been concessioned as of December, 2013.

Sir, Mpulungu Harbour, the only one that was once concessioned, did not perform satisfactorily during the period of its concession, hence its repossession by the State.

Sir, currently, the Government runs all the harbours.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Minister, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member who was on the Floor for interrupting his debate.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing in order to continue informing the House that forty-one districts were earmarked for the street lighting project, and that the project would be rolled out to the other districts when he knows that, among the forty-one, several districts, such as Kalomo, did not receive any funding? The relevant authorities in the district only knew that there was money that was supposed to be sent to the when auditors questioned them about it. Further, is he in order not to admit that the system at the ministry headquarters is so chaotic that the people there do not know which councils they have sent money to? Is he in order not to clarify that point?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is an example of a point of order that is used to debate. However, the hon. Minister might want to say something about that when considering the question from the hon. Member for Mbala.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Oh, it is a different hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, that is why we like points of order to be raised contemporaneously. So, your point of order cannot be sustained.

Continue, Hon. Simfukwe.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, considering that Mpulungu Harbour is the only port that Zambia has, that it connects us by water to ports in other countries and that it facilitates the cheapest form of transport to several countries, does the Government have any plans to invest in modernising it, especially with the money that is being borrowed and spent on other forms of transport like rail and roads? Is there any money that will be allocated to Mpulungu Port?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate that question from the hon. Member.

Sir, the Government is already rehabilitating Mpulungu Harbour so as to enhance its capacity.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF POLICE POST IN NSOMBO

498. Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when a police post would be constructed in Nsombo area of Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) what other structures would be constructed alongside the police post.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Chilangwa): Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to taking security services closer to the people, hence its desire to construct more police stations and posts. To that effect, the Government has embarked on an infrastructure development programme for the Zambia Police Force in which police stations and posts, and housing units will be constructed. Nsombo will benefit from the same programme as soon as it is launched. If the current situation is desperate, and the hon. Member of Parliament and his constituency cannot wait for us to launch that programme, we will advise the hon. Member to emulate other hon. Members who have used part of their Constituency Development Funds (CDF) to construct police posts.

Sir, housing units for police officers will be constructed alongside the police post.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Deputy Minister’s answer. However, Nsombo had a police post in the past, but differences arose between the community and the officers, leading to the abandonment of the police post. I also hear that there is an infrastructure development plan (IDP). This area has a new secondary school …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question, hon. Member?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the area will have a new secondary school and a new post office. Would it not be prudent for the Ministry of Home Affairs to consider prioritising the construction of a police post in the area so that the pupils to be enrolled in the secondary school and the post office can be protected?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, yes, it will be prudent for us to prioritise building a police post in that area. That is why, in my earlier answer, I said that the hon. Member of Parliament should consider using part of the 2014 CDF on this project so that the process can be expedited.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, suppose that the hon. Member does not want to use the CDF to construct a police station, could you categorically state if the ministry has a plan to construct a police station in Nsombo. If so, tell us when.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to believe that there are many areas in this country that do not have police services yet, and this has been the situation for the last fifty years. So, this prudent Government under the PF has found it necessary to have an IDP in place. The programme will soon be rolled out. So, if the CDF cannot be made available for the project, the hon. Members can wait for a few more months for us to launch the programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, when will the IDP be launched?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, as soon as everything is put in place, we will make a huge announcement to the entire country. This plan will not be implemented under the carpet or in a bedroom.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chilangwa: We will come out and publicise it.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I could hear murmurings when the hon. Deputy Minister made reference to the bedroom. Hon. Minister, next time, maybe, you should use ‘privately’ instead of ‘in the bedroom’. I want to believe that you used the phrase ‘in the bedroom’ to refer to privacy or secrecy.

Laughter

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, has the hon. Minister taken into consideration police posts that were built a long time ago, such as Emisa in Chasefu Constituency, which has no staff accommodation? Will he include the police post in the programme to be rolled out?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, as long as that area is part of Zambia, it will be considered. The programme will cover the whole country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has been assuring people that the Government will soon roll out this programme. As opposed to just saying, as long as an area is in Zambia, it will be considered for a police post, does his ministry have a tangible plan for rolling out the programme, which he can refer to?

Hon. Back Bencher: Iwe Kampyongo, take over.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, the problem in this life is that, when people have been around for a long time and certain things have not happened in their lifetime, they will not believe even when plans have been put on the table. The Government has a plan that it will launch.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: He has not answered the question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You know, sometimes, it is not the role of the presiding officer to pester people to help hon. Members understand. Hon. Minister, if you can, please, shed more light on when the plan will be launched.

Mr Muntanga: Simple!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, we shall announce the date when we will launch our programme. All I can say, for now, is that, yes, we have a plan.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Alright.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, when a ministry like Home Affairs has a plan, that plan has to fit into the budget for that ministry. Is the hon. Minister aligning his answer to the budgetary allocation that will allow this programme to be rolled out this year, next year or in the medium term expenditure framework? That is what we are interested in. Have you got a budget for this roll-out? If so, we would like to know which year, exactly, the programme will be rolled out.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, we are trying to source funds outside the budget for this programme.

I thank you, Sir.

REHABILITATION OF DAMS IN PEMBA

499. Mrs Mazoka asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development when the Munyama and other dams in Pemba District would be rehabilitated.

Mr Zulu: The Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development, through the Department of Water Affairs, visited Munyama, Ndondi and Nachibanga dams in Pemba District on 24th October, 2014, to ascertain the extent of their damage. Arising from this preliminary visit, plans have been made to conduct assessments to determine the cause of damage, and design and cost of the rehabilitation. Munyama Dam and any of the other two will be included in the 2015 rehabilitation programme.

Interruptions

Mr Zulu: Sorry, I meant 24th February, 2014, not 24th October.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned the exact date when the feasibility studies were carried out on the dams. However, the people of Pemba would also like to know when, exactly, these dams will start being worked on before the onset of the rains.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the ministry is in the process of disbursing funds to the Provincial Water Officer (PWO) to come up with a detailed assessment, design and bill of quantities (BOQ) for Munyama, Ndondi and Nachibanga dams, and K25,000 has already been put aside for that purpose. So, any time soon, we will start the process.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, will Pemba be the only district where dams will be rehabilitated or will there be other districts that will be considered.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, when coming up with an answer, we only looked at Pemba because the question was specific to Pemba. The hon. Member for the area wrote to the ministry. So, we were following up on that letter.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You have said what I wanted to say. I wanted to defend you, but you have adequately defended yourself.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, the hon. Minister has said that the money that has been put aside is meant for assessment. On the other hand, he told us that a team visited Pemba in February, 2014. What is it that will be done in the assessment to be done? Did the team that visited the dams not do all the necessary assessment?

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili) (on behalf of the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma)): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister was very clear in saying that, after a letter was written by the hon. Member of Parliament, a team was sent from Lusaka to go and look at the problems there. Thereafter, K25,000 was set aside to fund the design and BOQ in order for the job to be tendered.

I thank you, Mr Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, has the ministry already come up with a BOQ? Further, how much money is required to rehabilitate the three dams in Pemba Parliamentary Constituency?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister clearly stated that the ministry has set aside K25 million for coming up with a BOQ. So, that exercise is still being done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think he mentioned K25,000, which is K25 million in the old currency.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, does the ministry have a programme to rehabilitate other dams in the country? If it does, will that information be made available to hon. Members of this House for them to know how many dams will be rehabilitated or constructed in the current year?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that we should confine ourselves to the principal question, which was on Pemba Parliamentary Constituency, because I did not hear the hon. Minister cover the whole country in the answer.

GRADING OF KATETE TOWNSHIP ROADS

501. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) why the grading of township roads in Katete District had stalled;

(b) when the works would resume;

(d) what the name of the contractor for the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, speak a little louder, hon. Minister.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the works stalled because the newly-appointed consultant has to redesign the works due to changes in the scope of works.

Sir, the preliminary works have commenced and the contractor has a time frame of fourteen months to upgrade the roads to bituminous standard.

Sir, the contractor on this project is Nakangea Construction Limited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, how many kilometres will be tarred under this project?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is 15km.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, what circumstances led to the change in the scope of works?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the scope of works changed after the monitoring team went on the ground and discovered that it was necessary for the private consultant to review the kind of works that had been procured. That is what necessitated the change.

I thank you, Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, do shoddy works necessitate a change of design or scope of works? I ask this because the hon. Minister is saying that the monitoring team noticed that there was something wrong with the project. Is he trying to tell us that the person who was given the contract did not do a good job?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the first consultant for these works was the council itself. However, when the ministry sent the technocrats to look at the works that had been tendered for Katete District, it decided that it was necessary to engage a private consultant and this was done before the implementation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, since the works have stalled, when will the fourteen months programme start?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the new contractor is on site and works have since started.

I thank you, Sir.

___________

MOTIONS

____________

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON YOUTH AND SPORT

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport for the Third Session of the Eleventh national Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 17th June, 2014.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, your Committee during this session undertook a study of Teenage Pregnancy in Zambia. Your Committee also considered the Action-Taken Report on your previous Committee’s report. In order to get deeper insight into the issue of teenage pregnancy, your Committee invited written memoranda and oral submissions from various stakeholders. It also undertook tours to Uganda and two drop-in centres in Lusaka.

Sir, your Committee’s findings are highlighted in the report and I am confident that hon. Members of this august House have taken time to read the report. I will, therefore, only highlight some of the salient issues arising from the study.

Mr Speaker, teenage pregnancy affects not only the teenage mother and her baby, but also families, communities and the entire country. The problem can best be described as an emerging epidemic that is spreading at an uncontrollable rate. It is not only a silent crisis that requires emergency solutions, but also a time bomb that requires urgent solutions if it has to be defused.

Mr Speaker, according to available statistics, 28 per cent of adolescent girls in Zambia become pregnant before the age of eighteen. This is an alarming rate and requires radical solutions so that the problem can be curbed before it becomes completely unmanageable.

Mr Speaker, some of the many drivers of teenage pregnancy are peer pressure; poor parental guidance; low levels of education, limited access to sexual and reproductive health services, negative socio-cultural norms and practices, alcohol and drug abuse and early marriage. At the heart of the problem are the high levels of poverty that are prevailing in the country, which are both a cause and a consequence of teenage pregnancy. Statistics show that teenage pregnancy rates are higher in areas where poverty rates are correspondingly higher.

Sir, in terms of early marriages, it is demoralising to learn that Zambia has one of the highest child marriage prevalence rates in the world. On average, two out of five girls are married before their eighteenth birthday. It is high time we, as a country, began to realise that, while we need to preserve our traditions and culture, some traditions and beliefs are detrimental to the plight of adolescent girls and should be done away with. Additionally, the consideration of girls as sources of wealth to be married off as soon as they come of age can only be described as inhuman and barbaric. Your Committee recognises the important role that traditional leaders play in preserving and driving culture, but implores the Government to scale up efforts to enlighten people, especially in rural areas, on the evils of child marriage.

Mr Speaker, there are many consequences of teenage pregnancy. Maternal mortality is among the leading causes of death in girls aged fifteen to nineteen. Teenage pregnancy also perpetuates the cycle of poverty and leads to the negative social and economic factors that are connected with poverty. Additionally, there are numerous health risks associated with teenage pregnancy. One such health risk is the obstetric fistula, which can largely be avoided by delaying the age of first pregnancy. This condition can easily be corrected with minor surgery, but can lead to social isolation, kidney disorders and even death if left untreated. Unsafe abortion rates are also high among teenagers and also lead to death.

Sir, allow me to point out that teenage pregnancy is preventable. Unfortunately, as a country, we have failed to take adequate steps to prevent it, whether at the individual, family, community or national level. At individual, family and community levels, we fail to take responsibility to educate young people about the dangers and consequences of sex as this is considered a taboo topic. Further, we tend to shield perpetrators of defilement in order to avoid either embarrassment or loss of bread winners. This has to stop. It is everybody’s responsibility to ensure that adolescent girls are enlightened on the right choices about their lives and protected from acts that will lead to teenage pregnancy, disease and even death. At the national level, there appears to be a sufficient, but unco-ordinated legal, policy and programme framework. There is also inadequate provision of sexual and reproductive health services, insufficient education facilities and almost non-existent recreation facilities for young people. While your Committee takes cognisance of the efforts that the Government is making to address teenage pregnancy, there is a need to scale the existing interventions up so that lasting solutions are found.

Sir, allow me to make special mention of the school re-entry policy. While there are many divergent views on its pro et contra, your Committee wishes to expressly state that this is a positive policy that should be improved further so that it is not prone to abuse because it gives a new lease of life to girls who would otherwise have completely lost hope of a bright future. It should be realised that, often, teenage pregnancy is not a choice, but a situation that is forced onto the young girls against their will.

Mr Speaker, the consequences of teenage pregnancy are ugly. During its deliberations and, especially on its tours, your Committee encountered some touching moments when faced with the harsh footprint that this phenomenon leaves. Your Committee encountered girls as young as twelve and thirteen years who have been robbed of their childhood. This is very disheartening because every child should have a childhood. The country needs to stand up and declare zero tolerance to teenage pregnancy.

Sir, allow me to pay tribute to civil society organisations (CSOs) and Zambia’s co-operating partners for their contribution towards finding solutions for young mothers and their babies, and for their efforts in trying to reduce the prevalence of teenage pregnancy. The work that they are doing is invaluable.

In conclusion, Sir, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee is also grateful to the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation and input into the deliberations. Lastly, I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee during the session.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mwila: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion urging the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport for the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 17th June, 2014.

Sir, your Committee came face to face with the harsh reality that is teenage pregnancy and its consequences, and learnt that the phenomenon is a time bomb that will explode if it is not defused in time. For it to be defused, it requires emergency solutions from all corners of society because the future of our country depends on those that are most affected by teenage pregnancy.

Mr Speaker, as a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, Zambia has clearly committed itself to protecting the rights of children. Therefore, the country should ensure that these rights are guaranteed.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwila: Hon. Mucheleka!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can we consult less loudly, please.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the country should ensure that these rights are guaranteed. Protecting young girls from falling prey to teenage pregnancy is a process that begins from the day a girl is born. While it is worth noting that the Government has a number of policies, including legal and programme interventions, to manage teenage pregnancy, it should ensure that there are adequate interventions to protect girls from the first day of their life. Sustaining high levels of teenage pregnancy is an infringement of the rights of young people.

Sir, it is no secret that some of the factors that lead to unwanted teenage pregnancy are gender-based violence (GBV), negative socio-cultural beliefs and practices that encourage early marriage, the lack of parental guidance, lack of access to sexual and reproductive health services, lack of access to education facilities and lack of access to recreation facilities, all of which are facets of the infringement on children’s rights.

Sir, the Government has no choice, but to step up efforts to reduce the prevalence of teenage pregnancy. This phenomenon perpetuates poverty and affects overall national development. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to begin to see the importance of increasing budgetary allocations to the ministries that deal with the social aspects of the country’s development because, if the Government does not begin to realise the importance of pro-poor budgeting, the fight against teenage pregnancy will not be won.

Mr Speaker, with specific reference to the education sector, your Committee learnt that girls who have limited or no access to education are more vulnerable to teenage pregnancy because they do not have the capacity to read material relevant to the promotion of making informed decisions about their lives. Your Committee is concerned that the Government Bursary Scheme, which is meant to be given to vulnerable people, is not reaching its intended targets. This state of affairs needs to be urgently corrected so that bursaries are given only to vulnerable children.

Sir, while on tour, your Committee had a number of sad experiences and witnessed the role that civil society plays in providing support and care to the victims of teenage pregnancy. I, therefore, wish to reiterate the Chairperson’s gratitude to the Government’s silent partners who stand in the gap for teenage mothers and their babies. The work that they are doing is highly commendable.

Mr Speaker, your Committee has no doubt that the Government is committed to improving the standard of the lives of young people in our beautiful country and will, therefore, address the concerns that have been highlighted in your Committee’s report.

Sir, allow me, on behalf of your Committee, to end by expressing my gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee is also grateful to the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation and input into the deliberations. I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to the Committee during the session.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I stand to support the report of your Committee and to thank, firstly, the Committee for coming up with this wonderful report. Mr Chairperson and your members, the mover and the seconder, you have done a fantastic job on something that is very important to consider.

Mr Speaker, in his opening remarks, the mover described the teenage pregnancy situation in our country as a crisis. In fact, going by the statistics revealed in the report on Page 11, courtesy of the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, that there were 14,000 and 15,000 teenage pregnancies in the country in 2010 and 2011, respectively, I am persuaded to propose that we launch a ‘Save our Girls’ campaign in this country.

Sir, the girl child is endangered in this country. The other report, again, authenticated by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education reveals that three out of ten teenagers in Zambia aged between fifteen and nineteen years have either given birth or are carrying pregnancies. This places Zambia in the fifth highest position in terms of teenage pregnancies in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Sir, the Committee has clearly outlined the factors responsible for high teenage pregnancies from pages 6 to 10 of your report. As background to my debate, let me just highlight a few so that I can anchor my debate: early indulgence in sex, poverty, child marriages, peer pressure, socio-cultural norms and the prevalence of GBV.

Mr Speaker, Zambia adopted the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD) Programme of Action in 1994, in Cairo, Egypt. This was a twenty-year programme in which we were to prioritise the education of young people, especially the girl child, and precisely address teenage pregnancies, early marriages, empowerment of the girl child and gender inequality. Later, the ICPD was strengthened by the launch of the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) in 2000, which expire next year. Again, the world came together to emphasise the issues of gender equality and, gender equality starts with the safety and empowerment of the girl child. This country has not done enough on that score. The high-powered delegation that went to Cairo in 1994, led by His Honour the Vice-President then, came home with all the pomp from the conference, and the international community availed the resources needed to drive the ICPD programme of action. However, the Government is not putting the right framework to address the issues, and I am going to explain that. There is an assessment report that has been done, since the ICPD programme of action is expiring in 2014. The report shows that Zambia and Africa in general are not doing very well in implementing the ICPD programme of action. The unfinished business on the ICPD programme of action largely revolves around Sub-Saharan Africa, and Zambia is at the top of the list of countries with this problem.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the MDGs. Again, the high infant and maternal mortality rates arise from teenage pregnancies. We have not done very well in addressing this issue. We have the latest MDGs Progress Report for 2012, which paints a very gloomy picture.

Sir, three years ago, at a United Nations (UN) meeting, countries that were behind in the implementation of the MDGs were urged to craft what was dubbed the Millennium Development Goals Acceleration Framework (MDGAF). Since we were nearing the 2015 deadline, we were urged to zero-in on some areas where we could register progress. However, we failed to come up with the MDGAF, which would have guided our co-operating partners on where to put money in order to address challenges like teenage pregnancies. Like your Committee has said, we need to dedicate adequate resources to addressing teenage pregnancies and the interventions in this issue are very clear. One of the interventions is investment in the dissemination of information on sexual and reproductive health and rights of young people. There is evidence to the effect that countries that have invested in enhancing access to sexual and reproductive health services by young people have addressed teenage pregnancies more effectively. The young people must have relevant information.

Sir, in this era of the Human Immuno-deficiency Virus (HIV) and Acquired Immuno-deficiency Syndrome (AIDS), teenage pregnancies are despicable. It is no wonder that the rate of HIV infections is not coming down. If people are getting pregnant, then, it is obvious that HIV is being transmitted at will.

Sir, our Committee has revealed in this report that we still have marriages taking place among people who are below the age of eighteen. That is criminal and the law must take its course on any one who impregnates a girl below the age of eighteen. If the legislation is not right, let us harmonise it with the situation. The cultural norms that we have must be brought in the ambit of the national laws. We cannot have a culture that is backward and allows a girl below the age of eighteen to have a child. We must reverse that because, in our localities, this situation is still taken as normal. Let the long arm of the law catch those people who are defiling our girl children. We need to save our girl children.

Mr Speaker, your Committee has ably explained the consequences of teenage pregnancies. On Page 10 of your report, the Committee has outlined the health risks associated with teenage pregnancies. The under-aged girls are not able to carry the biological assignment, and that is why we have high infant mortality rates in this country as revealed by the MDG Progress Report of 2012. Therefore, teenage pregnancies put both the baby and the mother at risk, and it is no wonder that the death rate in this country is high.

Mr Speaker, there are also socio-economic risks that come with teenage pregnancies. As I said last week, we are not investing in our population. Some of the interventions to address teenage pregnancies, as outlined by your Committee and development experts, are very clear. One of the most effective interventions is investing in the education of our young people, especially the girl child. Countries that have done this have addressed the problem of teenage pregnancies and child marriages, and are beginning to reap what we call the ‘demographic dividend’. If we did the same, the young people would know how to prevent pregnancies. Equally, if they stayed longer in school, we would improve their earning power. They would have unshackled themselves from the vicious cycle of poverty and would not fall prey to people who dangle resources and cause them to get pregnant. Therefore, empowering the girl child is the most important single intervention in addressing teenage pregnancies in the long run.

Sir, the other issue is that of legislation, and I think that the Committee is very clear on that. I also hope that the Government will take action to harmonise the laws with the situation. There must be one law applicable to this problem. The magic number of eighteen years consent age should be the threshold. We can even increase it to twenty years. If a person impregnates a girl below a particular age, the penalty for that must be stiff. If anyone marries a girl below a particular age, the penalty must equally be stiff. Let us apply the law. That, if combined with enhanced access of girls to education services, will be a very effective remedy.

Mr Speaker, the other intervention, as I said earlier, is to avail sexual and reproductive health services to the young people. They must know that there is something called a condom. I told some people that letting young people know about condoms does not mean we are telling them to have sex. They must know the condom and its use. This is because even those parents who say that they cannot talk about condoms have children who are getting pregnant. If you say that you are a religious person, who cannot talk about condoms, remember that, before you became a preacher, the condom was relevant. Therefore, it is important that the children know what is available, …

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: … and teenage pregnancies …

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, he is disturbing me.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

He is disturbing you …

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, he is a good friend of mine.

Mr Speaker, let me come to our situation or problem in terms of population. In most of the programmes, such as the ICPD and MDGs, the issue was that development was not centred on the people as it should have been. Development must be people-centred. In this country, after the demise of the National Commission for Development Planning (NCDP), when population issues were rightly profiled by the Government, we lost the practice investment and engineering planning to take care of population matters. Today, the population function in the Government is as low as a unit in the Ministry of Finance and, because of that, many ministries are streamlining it into their programmes. All our planning activities must put human beings at the centre. When this is done, resources will be adequate and the legal environment will be right. We can build roads, airports and everything else, but we must not forget to put the human being, including children, at the centre.

Sir, these children are, by and large, forgotten. How have teenage pregnancies reached this alarming rate when we have been budgeting and making laws? It is because we are not prioritising the population factors in our development planning. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to define the place of the population function in the structure of the Government so that population factors can be quickly integrated into our planning processes. There is no one who raised the red flag about this until the Committee came to produce this report. We should have known about the increasing number of teenage pregnancies a long time ago. This problem should have been arrested a long time ago before we reached the crisis we now have. These girls are human beings who have no prospects for a bright future. Therefore, we are imprinting poverty in this country. They did not receive an education and their children will not go anywhere either because their parents did not get the right education. This is how you tie a population to a vicious cycle of poverty. In order to unshackle these people, we must do what this Committee has recommended.

Mr Speaker, post-2014-2015 ICPD and post-2015 MDGs, the biggest portion of the sustainable development agenda, again, is about issues of sexual and reproductive health and children’s rights, the same issues that gender and equality are about. I hope that, since we have failed in the last twenty years of the ICPD and the last fifteen years of the MDGs, we can learn to focus on what matters in the post-2015 development agenda. What matters are human beings, gender equality, investing in young people, and availing sexual and reproductive health and rights services to all so that people can have options and can protect themselves. There is enough evidence available to the Government that investing in these issues pays higher dividends.

Sir, Africa, with its young population, needs to invest in young people to derive the demographic dividend. If we can invest in young people in the two suggested plans, we will begin to reap the dividends in the next fifteen to twenty years. We must not have a short-term view of this issue. If you put the right policies in place, you may not be in office to reap the benefits, but you will be investing for the country. Therefore, I urge the Government to plan and plant for the future for we have a country that is regressing.

Sir, with those few words, I urge the Government to read this report page by page. It is one of the few documents I have seen developed by us Zambians that is so comprehensive …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … on the statistics of the problem, and the consequences and the solutions that we must apply to address this despicable phenomenon called teenage pregnancies.

Mr Speaker, I also want to urge my fellow hon. Members of Parliament to launch a campaign to save the girl child.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear! Well done.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I stand to support this wonderful report by your Committee. Further, allow me to adopt the good debate my good friend, Hon. Hamududu, as my own.

Mr Speaker, I would like to zero-in on Page 9 of this report and talk about something on bullet 8.13, which is about inadequate boarding schools.

Sir, it reads:

“In some rural areas, distances to day schools were very long. The weekly boarding phenomenon of girls living away from home and renting accommodation near schools owing to distance increased their vulnerability and put them at risk of sexual exploitation and abuse”.

Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, this is a very serious matter that I want the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to pay attention to. The hon. Minister of Youth and Sport must partner with the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education on this. This scourge of teenage pregnancy and early marriages concerns more the children in school. I am aware that there are those who are not in school, but I want to talk about the ones who are in school, but have to rent houses or walk long distances because of their situation. In our areas, the schools are very far from our homes and our children are very vulnerable. Unfortunately, the situation is such that, before they go far on their educational path, they become victims of this scourge.

Sir, if you went to see the where these children stay, you would see that there is no care for them. Sometimes, they are left alone to look after themselves. I feel that the Ministry of Youth and Sport does not care enough to know what happens to the children that it is supposed to look after. I am aware that the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education provides education, but the Ministry of Youth and Sport should be concerned about how the children are looked after. Sometimes, the Government does not construct the houses the children live in and the community may have to rent a house from someone, who might end up being the abuser of the girls. It is important that the Ministry of Youth and Sport pays attention to girls in such situations.

Sir, it would help if the Government employed matrons of some sort in schools, who would be directly responsible for the children. Many times, the children are left to look after themselves. The teachers only see them in class in the morning, which does not help matters. The Government must build proper boarding facilities and employ matrons in our schools.

Mr Speaker, as I speak, I have in mind schools like Mapunka, Siyakasipa, Mabwa in Nyawa, …

Mr Mutelo: Washishi

Mr Livune: … and Washishi, as you have heard. Everyone is lamenting the plight in their constituencies. It may even be Lundazi and or any other constituency represented in this House.

Laughter

Mr Livune: It is important that this matter is seriously taken into consideration.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Why Lundazi?

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, Lundazi is a special one. Chasefu and others are special, too.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I would like to be as brief as possible. The second matter is the lack of recreational facilities and libraries in communities, which is on Page 10 on your report.

Sir, some of these things are unheard of in the villages. We only see them in town. In Kazungula, we have Simango Youth Centre, which was constructed at great cost, but remains incomplete. I would like the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport to come to our rescue. Kazungula has a very interesting geography and Simango is best suited for that infrastructure. So, I am glad that it is there. That structure is almost 95 per cent complete and one wonders why the Government cannot open it. Taxpayers’ money was used, but the infrastructure is going to waste. It is not fair to the taxpayers and Zambians at large. Open that facility so that our children can benefit. People will benefit as well because it will be a tool for reducing the vices of early marriages and pregnancies amongst teenagers.

Sir, Kazungula is a huge district and that facility is not enough. We may need more because we have five vast chiefdoms in the district. We want that facility to be operationalised so that we can also look at other areas where we can plant some more so that the facilities are taken as close as possible to the children in the districts.

Mr Speaker, I would like to believe that I am talking to a listening Government and remain optimistic that these few suggestions will be taken into consideration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I congratulate the Committee on the report that is before us. I also congratulate the Chairperson and the seconder for ably moving the Motion.

As I congratulate the Committee for this report, Sir, I think, it is important for me to put some issues into perspective. When I was listening to the debate, I realised that it is assumed that the Government is not doing anything about the problem. However, the Government has actually done quite a lot with regard to addressing the issues of teenage pregnancies and child marriages in this country.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that, last year, on 12th April, 2013, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health launched a huge campaign against teenage pregnancies. In fact, we were privileged to be joined by the Deputy Executive Director of the United Nations International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) at the launch at Chilenje Clinic. From that time, there has been good momentum in the campaign. On 13th April, 2013, we also had the privilege of travelling to Chipata to launch a huge campaign against child marriage. Let me now just share with my colleagues what has happened since then.

Sir, I made a statement in this House acknowledging the problem of child marriages and outlined the programmes and activities that my ministry would undertake in partnership with other ministries, namely, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development, the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Youth and Sport, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. This is because, as a ministry, you cannot talk about child marriage without actually galvanising yourselves. Some of the issues that are being raised here, for example, the issues of education, are under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and that is why the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is one of those participating in this campaign. We appreciate the fact that, if there are flaws in the manner in which we are delivering education, children are likely to be victims of child marriages. This realisation resulted from the findings of a research on child marriage conducted by my ministry. We did the mapping and even chose to launch it in Chipata because the Eastern Province is one of the worst affected provinces. We did a zero-in analysis in Luangeni Village in Chipata.

Laughter

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we have also done a situation analysis of the child marriage issues in this country. Starting from 9th to 11th July, 2014, Zambia will be hosting an international symposium on the matter. This is actually where we will share some of the results of this study. Your Committee has been invited because we would like it to be aware of this problem and take note of what we are doing about it.

Mr Speaker, in order for us to resolve this problem in Zambia, we have discovered that we need to work together with our colleagues in the region. We have jointly done a regional study in Malawi, Tanzania and Zambia so that we can share our best practices as a region. The problem of child marriage has taken the centre stage in this country. Due to the realisation of the duality of the legal system, the Ministry of Justice will be part of this consortium.

Sir, we also realised that we needed to address this problem through the traditional leaders, who are the champions and drivers of the campaign against child marriage. In fact, we have selected Chief Ntambu to be the National Champion. On 2nd May, 2013, ten hon. Ministers travelled to different parts of the country to launch the campaign at the provincial level. In fact, for the benefit of Hon. Hamududu, it was also launched at Chieftainess Mwenda’s Palace in Chikankata. Chieftainess Mwenda is our Southern Province Champion. She has galvanised all the other traditional leaders in that province on this problem.

Mr Speaker, let me also say that we do realise that this problem is associated with GBV, and this is why we have placed GBV at the centre in addressing the issues of child marriages and teenage pregnancies. We have already launched these activities at Chief Chikanta’s area, who is our National Champion on the issue of GBV.

Mr Speaker, I think that there was a flaw in the collection of information by your Committee because all these achievements were not highlighted in the report. We are also working with CSOs, such as Women in Law in Southern Africa (WILSA), which are helping us with the information they have been collecting on the ground regarding child marriages. The work of WILSA and the Ministry of Justice will help us in harmonising the laws, which the previous speaker talked about.

Sir, I think that we have done a lot and will continue to do more. Currently, the programme on child marriage is very well funded. So, we will do a lot of work to stop child marriages. We only request the support of our colleagues on your left in this campaign because it affects them as well. They should not only come to the House to read the report, but also take interest in knowing what we are doing. They should participate in this fight so that we stop child marriage and teenage pregnancies in this country.

Mr Speaker may I take this opportunity to invite our colleagues to the symposium next month because there will be a lot to learn, especially on what Zambia has achieved since the PF came into the Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to pass a few comments on the report of your Committee.

From the outset, Sir, I want to congratulate your Committee on Youth and Sport on coming up with a very well-informed report. Let me say that I take Hon. Luo’s debate as my own because we have been working together on this matter. The three ministries of Gender and Child Development, Chiefs and Traditional Affairs and Youth and Sport have had many meetings on this subject. Most of the programmes that we are implementing, as the Government, have been initiated by the three ministries because many of things that we do cut across the three ministries.

Sir, it is, indeed, true that this problem is huge and has become a risk to our society. We must fight it left, right and centre until we lower the alarming rates of teenage pregnancies.

Sir, it is worrying to note that, of late, we have had many cases of teachers impregnating school girls. This is a very worrying situation because our girls are sent to school to be in the custody of the teachers. So, what is happening is unacceptable. The teachers, who are supposed to protect the girls are now in the habit of impregnating them and people in the rural areas, more often than not, tend not to report these matters and opt to marry off these girls to the teachers. This demonstrates a breakdown of the moral fibre of this country. Anybody who sleeps with a girl under the age of sixteen must be reported to the police if we are to fight this vice. So, a concerted effort is required among the three ministries and the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to fight this scourge. Let me assure the House that, as a Government, we are doing everything possible within our power to resolve these issues. For instance, we were talking about providing limited sexual and reproductive health services and have since embarked on the construction of 650 health posts across the country. This is one way of bridging the gap in the reproductive health services.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of lack of recreation facilities, in the last sitting of Parliament, I announced that, in this year’s Budget, some money has been allocated to the creation of safe places in communities. We want the hon. Members of Parliament to identify open land in their constituencies so that we can give them money to put up basic sports infrastructure so that our people in the rural areas can participate in sport every afternoon. We will employ District Sports Co-ordinators (DSCs) and Sports Co-ordinators (SCs) will also be employed by councils. Volunteers from the communities will also be used to promote sport as recreation. So, as the Government, we are not sitting idly, but we are doing everything possible to resolve this problem.

Sir, let me take this opportunity, once again, to thank the Committee and Hon. Hamududu for his informative debate. I also thank my younger brother, with whom I share a father although I do not know how. His debate …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Please, keep those sentiments.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you very much.

Sir, let me also thank my younger brother from Livune Constituency.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: They look alike

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili: In a nutshell, as a Government, we are very happy that, at least, Parliament is helping us to identify the weaknesses in this situation so that, together, we can bridge the gap.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Does the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development want to say something? I had given her the Floor earlier, but she opted to give it to her counterpart. All the same, she can say something.

The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, we had indicated at the same time. So, you had to make a choice. However, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate and to thank the Committee for a very informative report that it has given to the House.

Sir, I heard some of my colleagues, the hon. Members, ask what the job of my ministry is if the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is organising symposia on the early marriages, and I want to allay their fears.

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Mrs Wina: I think, it is high time hon. Members knew the responsibilities of this ministry.

Mr Livune: Which one?

Mrs Wina: sir, the scope of my ministry’s work cuts across the portfolios of other ministries. There are gender issues in education, agriculture, land and environmental affairs. So, we are everywhere, but we deal with policy issues.

Mr Speaker, the implementation of early marriage prevention programmes has been assigned to the Ministry of Chiefs and …

Mr Muntanga: Witchcraft.

Mrs Wina: … Traditional Affairs, and not witchcraft.

Laughter

Mrs Wina: The Ministry of Gender and Child Development is responsible for the policy issues that inform these programmes.

Sir, in order to scale the existing interventions up, which this Government is doing to find lasting solutions to teenage pregnancies, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development is working on the creation of a protective policy environment, through the review of the national policies on gender and child development, and the domestication of the International Convention on the Rights of the Child (ICRC), which will bring our laws into conformity with international norms and standards, and harmonise statutory and customary laws. As we know, some customary laws infringe on the rights of the child in our country. This is one category of laws that we particularly need to harmonise with our statutory laws in order to come up with policies that will protect our children.

Sir, my ministry has already established strong linkages with other line ministries in addressing teenage pregnancies and child marriages. As was pointed out by the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, we are working closely with the ministries of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs; Home Affairs, Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; Community Development, Mother and Child Health; and Health, and with co-operating partners and CSOs to co-ordinate our collective efforts and come up with programmes that address the vices of early marriages and teenage pregnancies.

Mr Speaker, my ministry has also embarked on programmes to strengthen the systems for taking care of orphans and vulnerable children in the country. This will enhance the service delivery of my ministry and other stakeholders by strengthening the information base, institutional capacity building and awareness creation on orphans and vulnerable children, including victims of early pregnancies. The issue of unco-ordinated efforts targeting the girl child has been mentioned. So, my ministry has also embarked on the process of strengthening co-ordination among the various players in addressing teenage pregnancies in the country. So, the Government is doing a lot to address this pandemic. We are working closely with other line ministries and United Nations (UN) agencies in this effort. In this collaboration, the Government will provide grant support to CSOs that deal with girl children and mobilise resources for capacity building and service delivery focusing on children who get pregnant. All these efforts will be directed towards upholding the rights of our children. In the post-2015 development agenda, we look forward to this august House’s support in our endeavours to save our girl children.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I support the report.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, it is quite gratifying that both your left and right have supported this report. On behalf of the Committee, I am grateful to Hon. Hamududu. I am also grateful to the hon. Member for Katombola, Mr Livune, for his contribution even though he did not declare interest.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: The hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs came out very well. However, she was invited by the Committee to share information with it, but she did not. We are only hearing some of her expressions and involvement today even though these are issues on which we should be co-ordinating. We talked about them in the report because they are matters of interest to both those in the Government and those who are not.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Muchima: In Africa, the scourge is almost the same. We initially thought that it was worse here, but we thank the Clerk of the National Assembly for giving us the opportunity to visit Uganda and compare the situation there with ours. What we found was not so different from what prevails here. We need to go a mile further and visit developed countries to make comparisons.

Sir, I totally agree with Hon. Hamududu that we have not invested enough in this area. I am glad that Hon. Kambwili is speaking so passionately about it. Since the hon. Minister of Finance is in the House, I know that he has heard the different contributions and will respond appropriately to them when allocating resources to the various ministries. I think, this is the way we should go, as a country. If we invest in a child, especially the girl child, we will not continue to complain about women being marginalised. Women are sidelined from aspiring for top-level positions in society. We visited a university in Uganda and found a similar situation.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Wind up.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, please, wind up.

Mr Muchima: Sir, to wind up, I thank all those who contributed to the debate on this Motion as well as the silent majority for supporting the report.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE

(Debate resumed)

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, your Committee also undertook a benchmarking tour to Kenya to appreciate how the country has managed to explore the potential of the non-traditional crops, such as horticultural crops, vegetables, fruits, coffee, tea, cotton and tobacco.

Sir, your Committee’s tour to Kenya validates the importance of investment in agricultural research and development vis-à-vis growth in the sector. Agriculture is the mainstay of Kenya’s economy and accounted for 65 per cent of the country’s total exports. It also provided more than 70 per cent of informal employment in the rural areas. The sector is not only the driver of Kenya’s economy, but also the means of livelihood for the majority of Kenyans.

Sir, despite Kenya having only 8.1 per cent of arable land of its surface area of 582,650km2, the country has maximised its potential from the non-traditional crops. In comparison, Zambia’s arable land is 58 per cent of its total surface area of 752,640km2, yet only 14 per cent is being utilised for agricultural purposes. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to increase the productivity of the sector, considering that the country’s arable land is almost six times that of Kenya. It was unbelievable that, despite having 8.1 per cent arable land, Kenya produces more non-traditional crops and food to feed 40 million Kenyans and export, compared with Zambia, which only has 13 million people. Non-traditional crops contribute 17 per cent to Kenya’s gross domestic product (GDP) due to the huge investment by the country in the sector. In Zambia, on the other hand, the non-traditional crops sector only contributes 8 per cent to the total contribution of the agricultural. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to invest heavily in the growing of non-traditional crops in order to raise their contribution to the country’s GDP.

Mr Speaker, the ambitious programme of irrigating 1,000,000ac that the Kenyan Government has embarked on will further enhance the production of the non-traditional crops. Rain-fed agriculture is not sustainable in light of the climate change phenomenon that has not spared the agricultural sector, especially since most of Kenya’s land is semi-arid or desert. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to scale programmes on irrigation up and targeting to irrigate, at least, 520,000ha in identified areas in order to promote the cultivation of non-traditional crops.

Sir, the decision by the Kenyan Government to dedicate 2 per cent of its GDP earnings to research and development (R&D) has resulted in the growth of the agricultural sector. Your Committee recommends that the Government allocates 10 per cent of the budget for the agricultural sector to R&D. This will guarantee the growth of the sector in the country and high productivity of the non-traditional crops.

Mr Speaker, another milestone that has contributed to the growth of the non-traditional crops sector in Kenya is the presence of a national airline and cargo carrier. The two have contributed to the promotion of the non-traditional crops, especially for the international market. Your Committee, therefore, strongly recommends that the Government expedites the establishment of a national airline and facilitates investment in cargo planes to promote the export of non-traditional crops to the international market.

In conclusion, Sir, your Committee wishes to commend all the witnesses who appeared before it for providing the necessary information. Let me also take this opportunity to convey my appreciation to all the members of your Committee for their commitment and co-operation during the session. Your Committee is also grateful to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it. Finally, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to express our gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion, which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee. I will restrict my comments to mattes that were not highlighted by the mover.

Mr Speaker, your Committee realises that the lack of processing facilities for value addition has severely limited the full utilisation of the crops and contributed to post-harvest losses, which stand at about 30 per cent. Your Committee recommends that the Government creates an enabling environment for private sector investment in agro-processing industries so as to encourage value addition and reduce the huge post-harvest losses. This may be by way of tax incentives to the investors.

Mr Speaker, it is saddening that most of the Acts relating to non-traditional crops have become outdated. In some instances, there are no boards in place to promote markets and regulate the growing of the various non-traditional crops. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government reviews all legislation related to non-traditional crops, such as the Coffee, Cotton and Tobacco Acts. Furthermore, your Committee recommends that the Government urgently operationalises all the boards that are not in place.

Sir, your Committee is concerned that the absence of a clearly-defined value chain for the non-traditional crops has contributed to the untapped potential of the crops. Further, the lack of consistent market and demand information, whether internally or externally, that is, sell before you sow, has not helped matters. Your Committee strongly recommends that the Government establishes well-defined value chains for all the non-traditional crops as is the case with maize, which has a clearly-defined market system both locally and internationally.

Mr Speaker, allow me to also share a few points on your Committee’s findings in Kenya regarding the status of the non-traditional crops in that country.

Sir, your Committee notes that the introduction of agriculture insurance schemes and enhancement of access to credit schemes has not only provided farmers with the much-needed capital to invest in the growing of non-traditional crops, but also enabled them to safeguard their produce. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government introduces credit schemes for farmers to invest in non-traditional crops that require Government financial support. Furthermore, the Government must engage insurance companies for them to integrate agriculture insurance in order to safeguard the produce of the farmers.

Sir, the active involvement of the Kenyan Government in the promotion of non-traditional crops has led to the institution of quality control measures in the value chain, resulting in the maintenance of high standards that satisfy the international markets. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government, through the various boards, maintains a high quality of non-traditional crops in the value chain, especially for the international market.

Sir, allow me, as I conclude, to echo the hon. Minister of Finance, Mr Alexander Bwalya Chikwanda, who said, sometime back that, ‘‘If we worked to try and develop our agriculture, we could even close the mines’’. This statement will only be meaningful if your Committee’s findings and recommendations are implemented in order to actualise the full potential of the non-traditional crops in Zambia.

Sir, lastly, allow me to thank you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. Allow me also to thank the members of the Committee for giving me the opportunity to second this important Motion.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, after many years of being independent and making our own decisions, I think, it is only fair that we make a deliberate decision to invest in agriculture. Therefore, I want to agree with the words attributed to the hon. Minister of Finance that, if we managed our agriculture properly, we can forget about the mines. However, there is also a need to review the way we manage our land. If agriculture has to reach its full potential, we need to have a system of collaboration between ministries, such as those of Agriculture and Livestock, and Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection.

Mr Speaker, I have one example that I want to give. If you have noticed, in Zambia today, we are importing poultry and horticultural products from South Africa. In essence, what this means is that we are creating employment in South Africa. Is this because we do not have the potential and the land, which we can use to grow fruits? Have we not got the manpower to harness these resources so that we add value in our country? Maybe, the reason we import poultry products is that the Government is not encouraging poultry farming. For example, on the Copperbelt today, there is friction between mining and agricultural activities, and I think that we will need to seriously address it. For instance, Non-Ferrous China Africa (NFCA) discovered copper deposits under a poultry farm belonging to Hybrid Poultry Farm. This company bought the land surrounding the farm, dug tunnels towards the poultry farm and started mining underneath it. This disturbed the activities of the farm because rearing chickens is a very sensitive business. Birds, in particular, are very sensitive to changes in the environment. For example, in the disaster earthquake that struck in northern Japan and set off the tsunami that damaged the Fukushima Daichi, no birds were affected because they were able to detect the earth movements and flee the disaster zone.

Sir, as I speak, there is a shortage of poultry and poultry products on the Copperbelt because of the disturbance on the operations of the poultry farm. The shortage has even spread to Lusaka and other parts of Zambia, resulting in people importing poultry products from South Africa. The Government’s promotion of mining activities by giving the NFCA permission to undertake mining activities under the poultry farm has reduced the production of eggs on the Copperbelt from one million per week to less than 600,000. This contradicts the Ministry of Finance’s statement that we can do away with mining if we invest adequately in agriculture. While the NFCA mining company has promised 3,000 jobs over a period of thirty years on the Copperbelt, Hybrid Poultry Farm has a clientele of 15,000, each employing about five farm workers. When you do the arithmetic, how many people are employed by Hybrid Poultry Farm, including those who sell eggs on the streets? What about the protein the company provides to those who cannot afford chickens or beef?

Sir, we want to show that, although the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development is excited about promoting mining, it is also creating a shortage of eggs on the Copperbelt because of the mining activities. The people there will not have anything to eat. Besides, most of the mines on the Copperbelt are shutting down after leaving people with nowhere to get their proteins from. A tray of eggs on the Copperbelt lasts fifteen days for an average family. All the people do to have a full protein-rich meal is fry two eggs, and add onions and tomatoes. However, you have now brought in mines development, which will take thirty years to develop for them to employ 3,000 people but, by the time that happens, the people will be dead. So, I urge the Government that, as much as we want mining development, and that has now gone to the North-Western Province as well, where people are getting tracts of land for mining activities, we risk having more mines whose employees will afford a meal while the peasants will find it very difficult to afford meals because they will not have jobs.

Mr Speaker, I urge the Government to diversify from traditional income-generating activities. If we can broaden the base of our farming, from traditional crops like maize and cassava, and introduce other high-value crops, then, we will promote economic growth among our people. So, we need a change of attitude. While the ministries of Finance, and Mines, Energy and Water Development have sided with the NFCA, I wonder what voice the ministries of Agriculture and Livestock, and Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection have. The Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, together with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), stated that the NFCA had not followed the laid-down procedures in going about its mining activities, but they were over-ruled by higher authorities, who allowed mining activities to go ahead even if the Mines and Minerals Act explicitly states that, when you want to undertake mining activities in an area, the holder of the surface rights to the land must give consent. When we say that these decisions being made by the Government are corrupt, you accuse us of working against the Government. However, you make these decisions using underhand methods.

Sir, I urge the Government not to allow the Hybrid Poultry Farm on the Copperbelt to close down. This is because Hybrid controls 70 per cent of the poultry business in the country. For another farmer to come and start producing day-old chicks, it will take them about three years. In the meantime, the people would have been killed. So, I urge the Government to act in the best interests of the people. If somebody got something behind-the-scenes, that is their problem. Let us make the right decisions on behalf of the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this report.

Sir, I find the manner in which the report is being presented to us to be a bit simplistic and elementary. It is a shame that, today, after almost fifty years of Independence, we can still surprise ourselves with a report like this. It was even worse when I listened to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock talk about agriculture in this country in the manner that he did on Friday.

Mr Speaker, if we want to seriously fight poverty, we need to invest everything that we have into agriculture. In 2003, with the assistance of the World Bank (WB) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), Zambia prioritised its macro-economic sectors, and agriculture was put first on the list. Today, we cannot write reports stating that Zambia has a vast potential for agriculture and a favourable climate after that report. We want to see the key result areas after the Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP) that was produced in 2003. The PRSP was supposed to be reproduced every three years. By this time, we would have known the strategic implementation factors in agriculture. Maize is a fundamental crop that sustains all Zambians, not only sixty of us as suggested in this report. All of us live on maize. Even when we knock off from here, we will go and eat nshima.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is nshima?

Hon. Member: Buhobe.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, it is a thick porridge made from maize meal.

Mr Speaker, there is a book by Adam Smith that almost all who have studied economics should have read, namely, The Wealth of Nations. Similar to what is suggested in that book, if we could focus our attention on agriculture, maize farming, alone, would alleviate poverty in this country. However, when the Government gives inputs to farmers and they produce a bumper harvest, the same Government gets surprised. Our colleagues across cannot even tell us what the floor price of maize is. In fact, to me, it looked like the hon. Minister set the floor price here on Friday because he knew that we would ask him what it was.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we concentrate on implementing the recommendations of the 2003 PRSP. We should also have produced other strategic papers in 2006, 2009 and 2012 to review our progress in the agricultural sector as a country.

Mr Livune interjected.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we are now talking about non-traditional crops in this report. However, you will remember that in the 2011/2012 Farming Season, our farmers in the Eastern Province burned one of the non-traditional crops because of poor pricing. How can we, today, say that we want to alleviate poverty through the promotion of non-traditional crops when our farmers are being discouraged from growing them? It is not possible. When our people put in enough effort to produce these crops, we do not support them, as Government.

Mr Livune: Which Government?

Dr Kaingu: The PF Government. I even wonder when people claim that I have been bought by them. Had they done, I would refund them because they are no good.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: We are trying to help them, but they cannot be helped. I will sell myself to the United Party for National Development (UPND) and use the money to refund the PF.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want all of us to be very serious about non-traditional crops.

Interruptions

Hon. Muntanga: Welcome.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am interested in knowing the value he is placing on himself.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: I am valueless, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, early this year, we saw the tobacco of our farmers in the Eastern Province, as if by design, get soaked by the rains. I do not know where the hon. Minister, with his ubiquitous hon. Deputy Ministers, …

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Yes, ubiquitous.

Laughter

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I do not know where the ubiquitous hon. Deputy Ministers were to let our farmers suffer in the manner they did. If we let such things happen, how can we talk about creating employment? What are we saying about alleviating poverty if, when our farmers make an effort to grow crops, we let the crops get soaked? We also let our people suffer in queues just to sell their produce. What are we talking about?

Mr Speaker, other countries are very serious with agriculture. For example, during the period when Zimbabwe was sidelined by the Commonwealth and almost the whole world, it sustained itself on farming of non-traditional crops, such as flowers, tobacco and cotton. So, it is possible for Zambia, which has 54 per cent arable land, to do much better. If you look at Kenya, which we are comparing ourselves with, it has only 8 per cent arable land, yet it is able to export food products to Zambia. That is shameful. I can assure you that, if we do not do anything to enhance agriculture, we are wasting our time talking about development. We will bring new parties in the Government and vote out the old ones, but we will not defeat poverty. So, the well-being of our economy depends on our attitude towards agriculture. We cannot talk about the mines today. In 2003, we said that we would not focus our attention on the mines. It was very clear. Therefore, I find this to be a very mediocre report. I have respect for the hon. Members of the Committee, but …

Hon. PF Members: Tear it.

Dr Kaingu: I am tearing it with words.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: This report leaves much to be desired.

Mr Livune: Tear it, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, if the attitude of our Government does not change on agriculture, the GDP can grow, but we will not develop, as a country. Whatever we do, as long as we do not change our attitude …

Mr Livune interjected.

Dr Kaingu: What did you say?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Address me.

Dr Kaingu: I actually like what he said, which is that, “A thief is always a thief”.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want to end my debate with those few contributions. I, however, want to emphasise that agriculture should be the mainstay of Zambia’s economy. Whatever we want to do, we should focus our attention on agriculture, whether on traditional crops like maize or non-traditional crops like tobacco and rice. Rice farming, alone, can change the whole of the Western Province. If the Government supports the people of the Western Province to grow rice and helps them with marketing, the whole of the province can change.

Mr Shakafuswa: Instead of getting rice from Pakistan.

Dr Kaingu: Yes, instead of getting rice from Pakistan, thank you, my relative. Do you know that you can actually grow so much rice in the Western Province, but you cannot feed even 10 per cent of Guangzhou in China? Yes. So, why can we not grow a lot of rice in that province? Why can we not support the people of Muchinga to grow rice?

Mr Shamenda: You are from there, why are you not growing it?

Dr Kaingu: You will remember those words. 2016 is coming.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: So, Mr Speaker, if we focused our attention towards helping the people of the Eastern Province in cotton and tobacco production, for example, we would change the province. In fact, I want to recommend to this Government to give to each one of us K10 million as Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Hon. Government Members: Aah.

Dr Kaingu: Ooh, you are murmuring?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Do you not react to hecklers, please.

Dr Kaingu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I will not.

If this Government could give K10 million to each hon. Member of Parliament as the CDF, we would be able to work on our rural roads, and build our own dams and dip-tanks to facilitate agriculture. We would not waste our time with you people.

Laughter

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: There is a possibility that a few of you will come back to this House in 2016.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: If you give us K10 million each, there is a possibility, bapongoshi, that you could come back.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

No ‘bapongoshi’ here. Just debate the report. There is no reference to your bapongoshi in the report.

Dr Kaingu: Sir, I just wanted to put it on record that this country has more than potential. The opportunities in agriculture are immense, and we really need to change, as a people.

Mr Speaker, I do not know whether to say I support this report or I should simply tear it with words.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate this very important Motion, considering that, as hon. Members of Parliament from rural areas, this is our mainstay.

Mr Livune: Yes!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to say that I support the Committee’s work. The report has brought out a number of important issues that are correct. However, there are some important issues that we normally gloss over, and there are two such issues that I would like to humbly bring out on this matter, namely, issues relating to the agriculture budget, and issues of policy and implementation.

Mr Speaker, for many years, agriculture has continued to be identified as the main growth sector for our GDP in the country. When you talk about creating employment, we have all identified agriculture as the sector that can help us. However, I think that we have missed it when it comes to issues of the budget. For a long time, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has continued to get fewer resources for it to implement all the good programmes that we want it to, including what your Committee has recommended, such as developing irrigation facilities.

Mr Speaker, one of the issues that I find to be problematic in relation to the budgeting process is that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has continued to receive resources which, at surface value, seem to be a lot but, in effect, when you look at implementation, you find that most of the money goes to Food Reserve Agency (FRA). It is all about purchasing fertiliser and buying maize. When you remove the component of buying maize and fertiliser, you will find that, in fact, the ministry remains with very little money for it to implement the very important programmes that your Committee is talking about and what the Government articulates.

Dr Kaingu: Quality.

Mrs Masebo: Sir, I think that we must begin to separate the resources that go towards the purchasing of maize and fertilisers from those meant for other key programmes. You will recall that, at one point, a Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development was created and one of the reasons, we were told on the Floor of the House, was that there were no resources going towards the livestock sub-sector. We saw the livestock sector improving once that ministry was created because there was money being allocated specifically for that. So, it is my humble view that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock should really look at the way resources are allocated to irrigation, value addition, poverty reduction and other programmes. Like Hon. Patel used to say, the devil is in the details of the budget and, when you look at the details of the agricultural budget, you will note that almost 60 per cent goes towards the buying of maize and fertiliser. So, I submit that we need to look at the budgeting aspect and ensure that the various important programmes are allocated sufficient resources for us to get good results from a sector that we all agree is important because it is the only one that can free us from the poverty trap that we find ourselves in as a country.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that I wanted to speak about, was the matter of policy. I think that we all agree and know exactly what needs to be done but, somehow, along the way, we are not consistent in some of the things we talk about. I will give you the example of the policy of the Government only buying maize from far-flung places and allowing the private sector to buy the crop from the nearby markets, such as those along the line of rail but, when the time to buy comes, we find ourselves buying from everywhere. Sometimes, politics comes into play. As Member of Parliament for Chongwe, which is very near to Lusaka, I would not be happy for the Government not to buy maize from my constituency. However, a policy is a policy. When we know that a policy is good in the long run, we need to be brave enough to stick to it. In short, sometimes, we have problems in developing this sector because of politics. So, we need to deal with the political factor so that we remain consistent and do what is right for the nation.

Mr Speaker, I am also concerned about the aspect of pricing. Sometimes, we price the produce to please either the farmers or the consumers without considering the cost at which the crops were produced, and this has been on-going for many decades. For me, these are some of the issues that we need to look at. I will call a spade a spade. Do exactly what you have said in order to revamp the agricultural sector. Yes, the agricultural sector is key to creating jobs and reducing poverty but, for as long as there is a lack of policy implementation, the idea that agriculture is the mainstay of our economy will remain mere talk. We should not be derailed by political considerations from effectively implementing policies.

Mr Speaker, my last concern is on irrigation, which has been raised in the report. We are told that Zambia has most of the surface water in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region. However, we are not really maximising that advantage to get the irrigation programme off the ground, and I know that one of the challenges for this programme is lack of resources. We are also told that, unless we diversify, we will still remain in problems but, when you look at the resources channelled towards diversification, there is very little or nothing at all.

Sir, my debate was simply to bring us to the core issues of the problems that agriculture faces as a sector which, in my humble view, are budgetary and policy inconsistencies.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, let me add my voice to those of the hon. Members who have supported your Committee’s report, which has highlighted a number of issues, including the importance of non-traditional crops and how they can contribute to growth. On Page 4 of the report, your Committee talks about the potential that non-traditional crops can unlock. From Pages 5 to 8, it talks about the various crops and raises the issue of the legal framework and the challenges faced in promoting their cultivation.

Mr Speaker, it is important for us, as a country, to realise that, if the GDP growth has to be meaningful enough to contribute to poverty reduction and growth that is inclusive, then, we should be serious about how we manage the agricultural sector. It is true that the majority of our people who continue to wallow in abject poverty, especially in the rural areas, are mostly small-scale farmers. In my understanding, and as highlighted in the Committee’s report, when we talk about traditional crops, we should also be talking about the small-holder farmer.

Sir, the truth is that, as a result of inadequate funding, the agricultural sector has not been able to make a meaningful contribution to the growth of the GDP. As a result of that missing link, we have failed to use economic growth to reduce poverty. That is why, at this stage, we should be walking the talk as opposed to just talking about the potential of the agricultural sector. For instance, we are aware, although this has now become a boring subject, that the 2003 Maputo Declaration talks about 10 per cent allocation of the annual Budget to the agricultural sector. We have not been anywhere near that target even if we have seen countries that have tried to allocate, at least, 10 per cent of their Budgets to the agricultural sector have been able to achieve significant inclusive economic growth and reduce poverty. Countries like Burkina Faso, Malawi and Ethiopia are cases in point.

Mr Speaker, your report makes reference to the case of Kenya, and there is everything to learn from our colleagues in that country. Kenya does not even have natural resources like we do, but it has used the agricultural sector to achieve balanced economic growth and poverty reduction. That has been largely due to the important role that has been assigned to non-traditional crops and that is something that we can do if we show our commitment to it by allocating sufficient resources to the sub-sector. However, the annual budget towards agriculture is very little, usually less than 5 per cent of the annual Budget, and the bulk of the budget for agriculture goes to the production of a single crop, maize, through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and partly the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). In other words, there is literally no funding to the other important sub-sectors in agriculture.

Sir, even when we look at the funding towards maize production, you will see that the reduced package to the farmer of five bags consisting of two 50kg bags of basal dressing fertiliser, two 50kg bags of top-dressing fertiliser and one 10kg bag of seed cannot grow the farmers to a point where they can diversify at the household level. They are held in bondage.

Mr Speaker, in its current form, FISP is not a programme that can improve the productivity of the small-holder farmer. It is just some kind of a social welfare programme, not an economic one. That is why, from the time we began FISP to date, there are no farmers who have graduated to the point where they can diversify to other crops. This should worry all of us.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about unlocking the massive potential in the agricultural sector, we need to look at how best we can adequately fund it and ensure that the non-traditional crops we are talking about are sufficiently funded. We must also talk about issues of livestock and fisheries development so that our farmers in the rural areas can begin to participate in economic activities that can create wealth for them.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this very important point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, who is debating on the Floor of this House, in order to sound repetitive and talk about what others have already discussed?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member should take the point of order into account as he continues with his debate.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the issues I raise are so serious that, really, unless someone was not …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The rules of the House are against repetitious contributions. Take that into account as you continue.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we need to create meaningful linkages in the agricultural sector by adequately funding it so that our farmers can be helped to diversify and create wealth at the household level.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Only then can we say that we are registering GDP growth that is inclusive and takes care of everyone.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, at this stage, we must be seriously talking about agro-value. One of the hon. Members talked about the agro-value chains, and this is where we must look at mapping in the agricultural sector. Hon. Kaingu mentioned the issue of rice in the Western Province, and there are also cashew nuts there, which is gold that grows. The two crops can, indeed, do perform wonders in terms of moving our people out of poverty. In the North-Western Province, we have pineapples, in Luapula, we have cassava and, in the Eastern Province, we have tobacco and cotton. Those are the things we should be talking about so that, ultimately, we create opportunities for all and take everyone out of poverty. That is why, for example, because of inadequate funding to the agricultural sector, we have not been able to achieve Millennium Development Goal (MDG) Number One, which talks about reducing poverty by 50 per cent by 2015. So, I join my hon. Colleagues who have supported this report and hope that the Government will take time to consider all the issues that have been raised in it, about adequately funding and diversifying the agricultural sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I equally stand to support your Committee on the issues that it has raised.

Mr Speaker, this report talks about increasing jobs through crop diversification into non-traditional crops, such as cassava, tobacco and cotton. I agree that these non-traditional crops could have greatly contributed to our economy if only the people of Zambia had voted wisely in 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, if only the PF Government could bring legislation that can protect the farmers, then, the non-traditional crops could contribute to the growth of the economy of our country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I can give the example of Statutory Instrument No.51 of 2013, which lowered excise duty on clear beer from 40 per cent to 10 per cent. That SI meant was well-intended to enhance the production of cassava but, unfortunately, because the PF is not a consultative Government, it came up with this SI, which only benefits one company that is not even ready to start production.

Mr Livune: These are poor failures, my dear.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the SI only talks about cassava and production of clear beer as if Zambians’ preoccupation is getting intoxicated.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the PF could have done better with this legislation by broadening it to include the use of cassava milling for the production of bread and glue. The Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock was not even consulted by the architect of this SI.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, these non-traditional crops would have done better if the people of Zambia had voted wisely in 2011.

Mr Livune: For the UPND, my sister.

Mr Bwalya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sianga: Who is raising a point of order?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala was on the Floor debating many issues that require us to pay attention to. However, is she in order to question Zambians for voting for her and all of us seated in this House? Is she in order to say that they are not wise and that they wasted their vote by voting for her and other hon. Members of the Opposition? Further, is she in order to say that our parents, nephews and daughters were very unwise and that they did not know what they were doing in 2011 when voting for her?

I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that the wisdom of the voters is reflected in the election results.

May the hon. Member for Namwala continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock made a statement on the Floor of this House, but I wonder if the ministry really knows what the Zambian farmer means to the Zambian economy. The cost of crop production is high due to the removal of subsidies, and that is still a bone in the teeth of the farmers of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the cost of farming inputs is very high and there is inflation. Even when the Government set the floor price, I wondered which stakeholders it had consulted because the Zambia National Farmers’ Union (ZNFU) is complaining. It even beats me more when the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock issues statements saying that he was shocked by the high prices of mealie meal, as if he does not live in Zambia. Is it not his ministry that is supposed to take care of the prices of mealie meal in the country? If I am to borrow His Honour the Vice-President’s words, I would say that even the crocodile who crossed from here to the other side of the House cannot help matters in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: That is Monde, my sister.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, one of the non-traditional crops is tobacco. What is happening in Zambia today was written on the walls. I was in Kaoma a week ago and found that, for two months, the farmers there have been stranded because there is nobody to buy their tobacco, yet the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was smiling …

Mr Muntanga: Flamboyantly, my sister.

Ms Lubezhi: … and praising them. However, he cannot come up with pieces of legislation to protect them. They are being exploited by international merchants, some of whom, even if you google their names, you will not find them on the World Wide Web. One even wonders why people in the Government are busy showering praises on them as if they are international investors.

Mr Speaker, the international merchants are busy exploiting our farmers, giving their tobacco low grades and low prices, yet we have a Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in place. May I borrow Hon. Milambo’s words and say that, probably, we need schooled people in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to help the farmers, who remain wallowing in poverty every year despite the Government’s busy talk about the bumper harvest.

Hon. Opposition Member: Tell them, mamma.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister agreed on the Floor of the House that this non-traditional crop called tobacco contributes more than K500 million, with 66 per cent of it being produced by the small-scale farmers, who they are not protecting. Surely, to me, the PF Government is a failed project.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Poor failures.

Ms Lubezhi: This Government cannot protect its farmers but, when its members come on the Floor of the House, they encourage farmers to go into tobacco production. What can we call this? Organised? Chaotic? I do not know.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, what happened to the price of cotton last year? The international merchants came and said that the demand for cotton and tobacco on the international market was dropping, but the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock was praising the increased demand on the international market. So, which is which? They fail to protect our farmers when it comes to pricing. The price at which farmers in our neighbour, Zimbabwe, sold their cotton was far higher than the one at which our farmers sold theirs. I am only glad that the Chairperson of Tombwe Processing …

Hon. UPND Member: Where is Tombwe, ba sister?

Ms Lubezhi: … also agreed that the K23 that they paid farmers was far lower than the prevailing price. So, why is it that the Government will not come in and help?

Mr Mufalali: Can it?

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the price of the best quality tobacco is now about US$5 and the worst quality is about US30¢, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Per what?

Ms Lubezhi: … yet we have a Government in place …

Mr Livune: Are they there?

Ms Lubezhi: … that is supposed to protect the farmers through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. It is high time these people re-organised their house and came up with proper legislation to protect these farmers.

Mr Livune: Hon. Monde is there. He will help them.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, while the textile industry is booming abroad, our poor cotton farmers in Zambia wallow in poverty. It beats my reasoning to hear the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock talk about the Mumbwa Ginnery, which it has not even started operating and only recently commissioned, as if the ginnery has been there for a long time. I do not even know whether the hon. Member of Parliament for the area is aware that there is a ginnery in Mumbwa, which they have been singing about.

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the record will show that I rarely rise on points of order. However, this one is compelling.

Sir, I was seated here listening very attentively to the hon. Member on the Floor until she totally misled herself. Is she in order to say something on the Mumbwa Ginnery, the first ever to be owned by indigenous cotton farmers, when she has no idea about it?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member for Namwala should take that point of order into account as she continues her debate.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, it was the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock who said that there is a new ginnery in Mumbwa, and I am only debating from what I heard.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes, that is what he said.

Mr Livune: That’s right.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If you want to debate, please, indicate to the Chair.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the poor cotton farmers of Muchila Area in Namwala District only enjoy their cotton when it comes back to the country ten years later as second-hand clothes popularly known as salaula. However, we have people occupying those seats and calling themselves an Executive, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: … yet they bring pieces of legislation that cannot protect the farmers and make this industry grow.

Hon. UPND Member: Why is it that they cannot resign?

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, as I talk to you, Kafue Textiles is a maize shed while Mulungushi Textiles is a piggery.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi: Under this able PF Government, …

Mr Mufalali: Disabled PF Government.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the other day, I was reading a story in the newspapers where the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock issued another statement to the effect that the Government was finalising the paperwork with the Ministry of Finance to borrow a US$1 billion Eurobond.

Mr Muntanga: Borrowing again?

Ms Lubezhi: One of the reasons given was the financing gaps in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. Is that the real reason or do we need to introduce proper policies in the ministry and ensure that it is headed by schooled people who understand what agriculture is all about?

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: What about Monde?

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, my main concern regarding this Eurobond is that I see a situation in which the PF Government will start getting Eurobonds for each ministry and sector. For example, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs can also come up with a request for a Eurobond.

Prof. Luo rose.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, as you know, one of my principles is not to attack fellow women, but I have been compelled to raise this point of order.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating so poorly and without facts simply because she wants to be heard outside, and if the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was here, he would have been able to say something on some of these issues, and even after being guided by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa, in order to continue debating in that manner? Further, is she in order to bring me into her bad debate?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member should not bring people who are listening to her debate attentively into the debate.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your advice.

Sir, my advice to the PF Government is that, instead of issuing sector-based Eurobonds, it should do better by using domestic resources.

Mr Livune: That’s right.

Ms Lubezhi: This Government should not drive this country into a debt trap. If I may ask, what is it that the Government has done with the other Eurobond?

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero.

Ms Lubezhi: If this was a Government that set the right priorities, the first Eurobond …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I know that you still have time, but try to concentrate on the report. It is just timely advice. You have debated at length and, when you do that, you tend to run out of ideas.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: So, as you wind up, please, concentrate on the report.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Sir, on non-traditional crops, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hammer!

Ms Lubezhi: ... this Government, as I said in my opening remarks, has potential to revamp the economy of Zambia if only they can bring the correct pieces of legislation.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Even when we borrow, let us do so in order to take the money into the agricultural sector, which has the capacity to repay these loans, instead of building infrastructure like Paul Mushindo University, which can never repay the loan.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, with these few words, I just urge this top-heavy Government that lacks planning capacity to start planning.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to wind up the debate.

Sir, I thank the hon. Members of this House, both those who have contributed to the debate on your report and those who have not had the opportunity to do so. Their attentive listening was an indirect contribution to the debate. I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister and those in the Executive to take time and take stock of your report because it has brought out a number of salient issues that could help to improve this sector.

With those few words, I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1943 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 25th June, 2014.

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Debates - Tuesday, 24th June, 2014

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