Debates - Tuesday, 28th October, 2014

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 28th October, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZAMBIA COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE CLOSURE

206. Mr Mbewe (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    what had caused the early closure of the Zambia College of Agriculture in Mpika;

(b)    when the college is scheduled to re-open; and

(c)    what measures had been taken to resolve the problem and ensure that similar problems did not recur.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Zambia College of Agriculture in Mpika had an early closure because the students complained about a number of things which include, among others, improving the low staffing levels which carter for a high number of students. They also complained about the inadequate infrastructure and teaching aids at the college.

Sir, the college is expected to re-open before the end of November, 2014. The Government allocated K2 million, in the 2014 Budget, to building a hostel and lecture theatre at the college. The ministry is currently awaiting the release of these funds. Further, the ministry is working with the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) to consider unfreezing some critical positions in all agricultural training institutions, including the Zambia College of Agriculture in Mpika, so that the vacancies are filled.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I pity the good people of Mpika because they have no one to speak on their behalf.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, in an event that the Ministry of Finance does not release these funds, what other measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that the college re-opens immediately?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, one of the requests and demands of the students was the construction of a lecture theatre and expansion of the learning capacity. I must mention that these issues are being resolved. Preliminary preparations are being done in terms of the Bill of Quantities (BoQs) and other things required for its construction, as demanded for by the students.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, this college caters for a number of people from different districts, Luwingu being one of them. When I visited my constituency, one of the issues that came up was …

Mr Kapeya: Waumfwa abamano!

Mr Bwalya: … that people have not been able to go back to that college. In his answer, the hon. Minister made reference to the teaching aids as being one of the demands made by the students. I would like to know what has been done to ensure that the teaching aids are also provided when the construction starts.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, in my response, I said that we are currently engaging the PSMD to ensure that we unfreeze those positions so that we can get lecturers. There is a date that has already been set, and so, end of November is just a tentative date to help us work towards achieving our goal. We know that the school will re-open before that date. We have engaged lecturers from Government institutions whom we are trying to move into Mpika. So, we are handling that part too.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, my simple question is: When is this college likely to re-open?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, we have responded that the school will re-open before the end of November, this year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, what led to the closure of the college and what measures have been put in place to ensure that this problem does not recur?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I have stated what caused the closure of the college and those are the issues we are addressing. These include lack of teaching aids, lack of infrastructure and a shortage of lecturers. The causes are many. If you should know, the students were also demanding for transportation because they want to go into town twice a week. They were also demanding for the setting up of internet hotspots within the institution, and yet the Government is spending about K3000 per month to ensure that they have internet in their computer laboratory. However, we are resolving some of these issues. This is why we can comfortably say that the college will re-open before the end of November, this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, since the Government is just making promises, I would like to know what guarantee there is that the college will not close again in an event that those demands by the students are not met.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, when we look at the students’ demands, for instance, the issue of internet connectivity in the whole school, we have resolved that we are going to put two internet hotspots where the students will be able to access internet outside the computer laboratory. If that is resolved and the students still choose to go on another class boycott, then, that will be another issue. However, we cannot predict when they will choose to go on another boycott because some of the issues they raised are being addressed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that one of the reasons the students went on a class boycott was the shortage of lecturers. How is the Government going around that since there is a wage freeze at the moment? Is the hon. Minister saying that this wage freeze is coming to an end?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, we are also working on the student-lecturer ratio and, currently, we are engaging three lecturers from other institutions to cover up for the shortfall at the institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that the BoQs have been done. Seeing that this year is almost coming to an end and there is no guarantee that this money will be released, does it require the students to riot for the ministry to act? Is it not just possible for the hon. Deputy Minister to accept that some of these issues are rising due to the inertia in his ministry …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question, please?

Mr Mbulakulima: Would the hon. Minister not just accept that these things are arising because of the inertia of his ministry to deal with the problems at this institution?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the college we are talking about was built, if my memory serves me right, way before 1960. I think it was built in the 1950s and …

Dr Kaingu: Were you there?

Mr Monde: I was not there.

Laughter 

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the status of this college has always been the same. Nonetheless, the ministry had gone ahead to plan for its rehabilitation even before the students went on a class boycott. It was not even a demonstration, but a class boycott because of a lack of infrastructure, which we started planning for a long time ago.

I thank you, Sir.

NSELUKA/KAYAMBI ROAD

207. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    why road works on the Nseluka/Kayambi Road in Malole Parliamentary Constituency had not been completed;

(b)    what had caused the delay in completing the road works; and

(c)    what the expected date of completion of the works was.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA), in conjunction with the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), on 19th October, 2014, started carrying out maintenance works of the D3 Nseluka/ Kayambi Road. The scope of works includes grading, re-gravelling and drainage works. However, this road is earmarked for upgrading and is part of Phase III of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, just a moment. I think that the consultations going on are too loud. You are actually making it difficult for us to hear what the hon. Deputy Minister is saying.

You may continue, hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: The procurement of a consultant to carry out the design is ongoing. The maintenance works have just commenced and there have been no delays experienced to date. The current maintenance works are expected to be completed by 28th February, 2015, approximately four months after commencement. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TEACHER-PUPIL RATIO AT SCHOOLS IN MWINILUNGA DISTRICT

208. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    what the teacher-pupil ratio at the following schools in Mwinilunga District was:

(i)    Kalukundu;
(ii)    Kalumbinga;
(iii)    Kankanga A;
(iv)    Kankanga B;
(v)    Wanjinzenzi; and
(vi)    Katemwa; and

(b)    what measures the Government had taken to improve the ratio at the schools above.

The Deputy Minister Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, the teacher-pupil ratio at the mentioned schools is as follows:

School    Teacher    Pupils    Ratio

Kalukundu    04    309    1:77
Kalumbinga    06    306    1:51
Wanjinzenzi    03    204    1:68
Kankanga A and B    05    186    1:37
Katemwa Primary    03    143    1:48

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!    

Mr P. Ngoma Mr Speaker, to improve the situation, the Government has undertaken the following measures:

(a)    in Kalukundu, the Government has built a 1x2 classroom block. It is also in the process of replacing the teachers that have retired, are deceased or transferred through promotions;

(b)    in Kalumbinga, the Government has built three staff houses. In this respect, teacher retention is assured. In addition, the Government has put measures in place to ensure that the teachers’ attrition rate is reduced, following the move to conduct replacements;

(c)    at Wanjinzenzi, the Government put up a 1x2 classroom block for learners. More teachers will be deployed by the Government when the replacement process is concluded;

(d)    at Kankanga A and B, the Government built a staff house. This will help retain teachers, especially after the replacement process is conducted; and

(e)    at Katemwa, the Government constructed two 1x3 classroom blocks, one ventilated improved pit-latrine (VIP) staff toilet and three modern VIP toilets.

Sir, due to the fact that pupils were being forced to compete for the few school places in established secondary schools, in line with its policy, the Government deployed secondary school teachers at Katemwa Secondary School. Administrators have also been deployed to manage the institution.

Furthermore, the Government is continuously providing learning and teaching materials for the institution. It is also expected that following the announcement by the Government to replace teachers at all institutions where there are vacancies, there is a very strong possibility that by the time the process is concluded, all the schools highlighted above will be adequately staffed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. My interest is in the staffing at the schools mentioned.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Kindly speak a little louder.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I am saying that my concern is the staffing levels at the mentioned schools. In the hon. Minister’s response, it is clear that the schools are understaffed. This question has been asked before in this House and the answer, then, was that the ministry was recruiting teachers who would be posted to these schools. However, to date, nothing has happened. May I know when this problem will be resolved by the ministry.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, when the ministry is recruiting teachers, especially now that it wants to replace, like I have explained, there is a process which it follows. It is not that the process of engaging teachers can start today and they are deployed tomorrow, no. It takes a bit of time but, very soon, this process will come to a conclusion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, as we understand, we have a lot of trained teachers who are not employed. May I find out how many of those teachers who are trained, but not employed are on the waiting list for employment.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the wish of the Government is to employ every trained teacher. However, for now, because it is just making replacements, the Government just employs the number of teachers it is able to replace.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the replacement of teachers at these six schools follows a trend nationwide. In that respect, allow me to find out from the hon. Minister the rate at which teachers are increasing countrywide on a yearly basis, as an added figure …

Mrs Kabanshi walked into the Assembly Chamber heading for her seat passing in front of Mr Lubinda.

Hon. Members: Order, order!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon Minister!

Mrs Kabanshi stopped and sat next to Dr Phiri.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwata, you may continue.

Mr Lubinda: May the hon. Minister kindly indicate what the average rate at which the number of teachers is increasing in Zambia.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, although that question is outside the one asked by Hon. Katuka, I would like to say, with a little elaboration, that each year, we recruit and deploy teachers. As you observed from the Budget Speech by the hon. Minister of Finance, he mentioned that 5,000 teachers are to be recruited in 2015. One hopes that with a changed process of recruiting and deploying, these 5,000 teachers will go a long way in filling up vacancies, particularly in rural areas. 

So, we need to work out a different process for the recruitment and deployment of teachers, which should be completely different from what was done in the past. This is because we have so many teachers in the urban areas when the rural sector is badly hit by a shortage.

Mr Speaker, that would be my answer to that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how he intends to replace teachers when the attrition rate, according to statistics, is 9,000 per year, while the recruitment stands at 5,000? This leaves a gap of 4,000. How does the Government hope to replace teachers that are vacating with these kind of statistics?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I do not want to end up hoping. I will need to get concrete statistics in order for me to intelligently answer that question. However, I can assure this House that each year, the 5,000 teachers go a long way in meeting the demands in the field, except the way we deploy these teachers is mainly urban-centered. So, we need to shift and we are working on the measures to be put in place. There is now data processing going on and this will give the ministry a clear indication of where the need is greatest. I hope the next recruitment and deployment programme will be a little different from the past and that will give us an indication of how much work we need to do, particularly in the rural areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that when recruitment for teachers is done and they are sent to rural schools, they stay at rural schools for a maximum of two or three months before being transferred to urban areas. What incentives is the hon. Minister putting in place to make sure that these teachers, who are sent to rural areas, are not transferred or taken back to the urban areas?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, apart from the usual Rural Hardship Allowance, which we are now trying to streamline because it is also being enjoyed by people who are very far from rural areas, we are working on a total package of trying to build as many houses for teachers as possible in rural areas, although we are constrained by the budgetary allocations. However, there are various incentives that are being worked on alongside a changed deployment agenda for teacher recruitment and deployment.

I thank you.

RURAL ROADS RECONSTRUCTION UNITS 

209. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the construction of roads in Kalabo District Headquarters to the following areas would commence:

    (i)    Sihole through Sikundu and Lutwi; and
    (ii)    Numa through Ndoka Bridge; and

(b)    whether the Government had any plans to establish Rural Reconstruction Units in rural districts where road network is non-existent.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, there are no immediate plans to work on the Sihole Road through Sikundu and Lutwi. However, the local authority is expected to prioritise this road and submit it to the Road Development Agency (RDA) for possible inclusion in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.

There are no immediate plans to work on the Numa Road through Ndoka Bridge. However, this road falls in the alignment of the D319 Kalabo/Kalongola/Sitoti/Matebele Road, which is part of the Phase II of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. It is expected that the consultancy services for the design will be advertised within the fourth quarter of 2014.

The Government has no immediate plans to establish Rural Reconstruction Units. The Government already has the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) with offices and equipment in all the provincial centres of the country whose mandate is to maintain rural roads.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the response is very clear. I would like to find out from the Government how it intends to penetrate the deep rural areas with road networks if it has no plans of establishing rural road units in the rural districts.

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the question of penetrating the rural areas has already been covered by the RRU, which is in place. What is important is for the hon. Member of Parliament to pressurise local authorities to begin to prioritise particular roads because the Government will not dream up what road is needed. We need information about what roads need attention.
    
Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, going by the hon. Minister’s answer that the Government will not dream up which roads to give attention to, does it, therefore, have intentions to create a department that could conduct a survey of important roads that require urgent attention at national level rather than wait for local authorities to identify the roads and prioritise them. For the information of the Government, as it already knows, there are so many roads at constituency level that have already been prioritised by the local authorities.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask your question, hon. Member for Choma Central.

Mr Mweetwa: Does the Government have any intentions to come up with a survey so that it identifies roads that require urgent attention?

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the system in place is very clear. We get information through local authorities. The hon. Member’s suggestion is a good idea that can be considered. However, what is important for the hon. Member to know is that the councils should inform our offices about the roads in various districts. Hon. Members are councillors and should, in fact, be in touch with their council secretaries so that they report the roads they feel need to be worked on. That is the system that is in place.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, there are so many roads that have been referred to your ministry, hon. Deputy Minister, that are still not being worked on. How long does it take for a road to be put on the plan, funded and worked on once it has been prioritised by the council and referred to your ministry?
    
Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, immediately we receive that kind of information, we put the said road on the list and begin to wait for funds. Once funds are available, we execute. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the issue here …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Members, before the point of order is raised, let me remind the House of the rules that regulate points of order so that we do not get out of control.

Hon. Members, in a summary form and properly used, a point of order should be:

(a)    for the general maintenance of order and decorum in the House;

(b)    raised on a question of procedure in the House and when procedure is violated; and

(c)     related to business before the House at a given time.

Any point of order that does not fall in line with these guidelines will be ruled out of order. The hon. Member for Choma Central may now raise his point of order.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order which borders on the decorum of this House, given that statements made on the Floor of this House, especially by hon. Ministers, must be factual and if a promise is made, it should be undertaken. 
    
Sir, in June, this year, while talking about roads, the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication informed this House and the nation that in September of 2014, his ministry would commence maintenance and/or construction of the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. We are now at the end of October without any indication whatsoever that what the hon. Minister told this House and the nation has changed. 

Sir, is he, therefore, in order to sit and lean backwards without stating whether or not what he assured this House and the people of Zambia about the Kafue/Mazabuka Road has changed?

Mr Deputy Speaker: File in a question. 

The hon. Member on the Floor may continue.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the issue is neither prioritisation nor flow of information from the district councils to the headquarters. The issue is that roads have been prioritised and information passed, but the RRU, which the hon. Deputy Minister referred to, is moribund and is not functioning because it is located far from the prioritised roads at district level and, therefore, the are not being worked on.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Question?

Mr Lufuma: Does the Government have plans to decentralise the RRU to the districts so that we can see action being undertaken at that level?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, at the moment, we have the RRU at provincial level, but we will decentralise to the district level.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

ROAD REHABILITATION IN KANKOYO CONSTITUENCY

210. Mr Chabala (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many kilometers of road were earmarked for rehabilitation in Kankoyo Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b)    what the names of the roads to be rehabilitated were.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr N. Banda: … Kankoyo Parliamentary Constituency is benefiting from the 20.5 km of township roads being worked on in Mufulira District. Currently, the contractor is working in Kantanshi Constituency and will soon be moving to Kankoyo to work on an approximate length of 4.6 km, which has been earmarked for the constituency.

Mr Speaker, the roads to be rehabilitated include 2.4 km of Butondo Road, 1.2 km of Nalikwanda Road and 1.0 km of Kwame Nkrumah Road.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
    
BWACHA CONSTITUENCY TOWNSHIP ROADS VARIATION CONTRACT
 
211. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Government would sign the variation contract for the rehabilitation of 25 km of township roads in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency;
        
(b)    when the works were expected to commence; and

(b)    what the estimated period of completing the works was.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA), through a consultant, has carried out an assessment of the required works on the 25 km of township roads in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency. The signing of the variation order is awaiting Treasury authority to provide supplementary funding.

Mr Speaker, the works are expected to commence once funds are made available and the variation order is signed.

Mr Speaker, it is expected that it will take a period of twelve months to carry out works on the 25 km of township roads once the works commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any idea when the supplementary funds will be made available by the Government?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, although the answer was given, which was that we are awaiting Treasury authority, our plan is to have this authority received, if possible, by the end of November.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, has the ministry got any plans to put up street lights on the newly-constructed roads?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when it comes to street lighting, the local authority or the councils are supposed to plan for the roads that are being constructed in the townships and ensure that street lighting is done.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, with your permission, before I ask my question, I bring greetings from the Pan-African Parliament (PAP), and they send their best wishes to Zambia on its 50th Independence Anniversary.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

ZONAL RESOURCE CENTRES IN LUBANSENSHI CONSTITUENCY

212. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many zonal resource centres were in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    what the names of the zonal resource centres were; and 

(c)    when the Government would build more zonal resource centres in the constituency.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, each province has a provincial resource centre headed by the Provincial Resource Centre Co-ordinator to facilitate in-service training for teachers (INSET). Each district has a district resource centre headed by a District Resource Co-ordinator. In each district, schools are divided into zones and each zone is headed by a Zonal Resource Co-ordinator. There are nineteen zones in Luwingu District supervised by the District Resource Centre. Of these, seven are in Lubansenshi Constituency. In each of the seven zones, a strategically located school has been designated as a zonal centre. 

Mr Speaker, the INSET activities are conducted in the zonal school classrooms. There are no stand-alone structures called zonal resource centres in the zones. This is so because creating a centre out of the existing classrooms at zonal schools would deprive the seven zonal schools of classroom space.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

When I do not mention the names of people making noise on my right, it is not mean that I do not hear them. I just want to save you from – I expect that you will hear me when I say that you are making noise on my right. The people making noise are actually very close to the person answering questions. Therefore, please, consult quietly.

The hon. Deputy Minister may continue.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, Mucheleka himself is the worst culprit.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the answer to (b) …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Deputy Minister, do not start something that you cannot sustain. That is unbecoming of you. I am talking about people on my right and you are going to the left.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Answer the question. If you have no answer, say so.

You may continue, hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the seven zonal school centres are Njoko, Shimumbi, Luena, Mucheleka, Chiponde, Tolopa and Luwingu.

Mr Speaker, the present arrangement is working very well although, in future, funds being available, the ministry could build more centres.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, can I hit back?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

No. You cannot because I made a ruling.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not start something that is not acceptable.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I can sustain it.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Sit down.  There is no follow-up question.

DIGITAL MIGRATION PROGRAMME

213. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting:

(a)    what progress had been made on the implementation of the digital migration of television;

(b)    how much money had been spent on the digital migration programme as of August, 2014; and

(c)    what challenges, if any, the Government had faced in the implementation of the programme.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Katema paused to arrange his answer and to regain his voice.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will give the hon. Minister some time. I will go to the next question for the hon. Member for Lubansenshi and I will come back to the hon. Minister later.

YOUTH LIFE AND VOCATIONAL SKILLS TRAINING

214. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Youth and Sport: 

(a)    how many youths were trained in life and vocational skills from January, 2011, to December, 2013, countrywide; and 

(b)    what specific skills were imparted to the youths.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, the total number of youths that were trained countrywide in life and vocational skills form January, 2011, to December, 2013 were 3,874.

Mr Speaker, the specific skills trained in were:

(a)    tie-and-die;
(b)    entrepreneurship;
(c)    carpentry;
(d)    tailoring and design;
(e)    agriculture;
(f)    metal work;
(g)    brick laying;
(h)    food production (catering);
(i)    power electrical;
(j)    auto mechanic;
(k)    general hospitality; and
(l)    information and communication technology (ICT)

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what specific tracking mechanisms have been put in place to try to follow up these trainees so as to know how many have been absorbed in the informal or formal sectors, either by setting up their own entities or through employment. 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, we have officers at provincial level who monitor the progression of the students in the youth resource centres. With regards to the absorption, once these students graduate, they are free to join the private or public sector. As a Government, we have put in place the Youth Empowerment Fund for those youths who want to go into entrepreneurship and other skills to access funds. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: We go back to Question 213. Hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, you may respond.  

DIGITAL MIGRATION PROGRAMME

213. Mr Mwila asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting: 

(a)    what progress had been made on the implementation of the digital migration of television;

(b)    how much money was spent on the digital migration programme as of August 2014; and

(c)    what challenges, if any, the Government had faced in the implementation of the programme. 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, Cabinet approved the policy on digital migration in March, 2014. The policy sets the guidelines of migrating the broadcasting sector from analogue to digital terrestrial television. The Government signed a contract in July, 2014 for phase I of the Digital Migration Project worth US$9,554,124.49. Arrangements to implement the other phases are being made to ensure that Zambia meets the June, 2015 international deadline prescribed by the International Telecommunication Union. 

The Government has already installed dual-cast television transmitters in Lusaka, Kitwe, Ndola and Chingola. These transmitters are capable of transmitting both analogue and digital television signals. The Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) and the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) have developed the type of the approved standard for Set Top Boxes (STBs). The standards will be used by would-be Set Top Boxes dealers to get certified and provide the right STBs to the consumers. 

Mr Speaker, following the approval of the Digital Migration Policy, the Government has embarked on a countrywide vigorous sensitisation programme to share information with the Zambian public and affected stakeholders on digital migration. The sensitisation is also done in local languages in order to ensure that all citizens are taken on board. 

Mr Speaker, the total allocation for digital migration in the 2014 Budget for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting was K3,813,540, which will be used and was used to cover the operations of the national digital migration task force and awareness programmes. Of this amount, the ministry received K229,334, which was used mainly to pay for the cost of processing the tender on digital migration. The funds were also used for sensitisation programmes, which are still on-going, in the Southern, Western, Eastern, Muchinga, Copperbelt and Central provinces.  

Mr Speaker, the major challenge which was faced in the implementation of the programme was in the initial tender that was floated. The tender was challenged by some bidders which led to its cancellation. This issue has since been resolved and the tender for Phase I of the supply and installation of digital migration equipment was successfully awarded in July, 2014. The Government is now on course with the implementation of the programme. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who the carriers will be and how much will be raised. 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I suppose that by carrier, the hon. Member means signal carrier. In the Digital Migration Policy, there is a provision for the establishment of a public and private signal carrier. The public signal carrier, for now, will be the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). As for the private carrier, we are yet to receive any application from a private entity. So far, no entity is intimating to be a private signal carrier. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to the fact that the tender for the supply and installation of the digital migration equipment was awarded in July, 2014. Hon. Minister, are we going to beat the deadline of June, 2015, prescribed by the International Telecommunication Union? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, all things being equal, we are going to beat the deadline. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, how many companies were awarded tenders to import set-top boxes and in the event that they have started arriving in the country, how many have arrived? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we said that ZABS and ZICTA have come up with standards for which would-be suppliers of set-top boxes shall comply with. No company has applied to be the supplier of set-top boxes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that sensitisation programmes are being carried out throughout the country. How is this being done in places such as Ikeleng’i where there are no radio or television signals?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we have district information officers in every district. There is also the presence of the Government in schools, through the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and in clinics, through the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. All the Government officials serving at these institutions have been sensitised will, therefore, sensitise the children who, in turn, can sensitise the parents as well.

I thank you, Sir. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, this programme is not new. When the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in power, trials were done in Lusaka and the Copperbelt to try and bring cohesion. When the set-top boxes were agreed upon, it was decided that a factory was to be set up in Zambia in order to produce them because it would be cheaper and everyone would be able to access them. Why is the Government reinventing the wheel?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we are setting standards for the set-top boxes which are supposed to correlate with the transmitters which we have applied for. You cannot use set-top boxes without transmitters.

I thank you, Sir. 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, there were two contending digital migration technology platforms. One was European based while the other was Japanese based. Which digital migration technology platform are we on, as a country, given the contending platforms, and why was that platform chosen? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, Zambia is a member of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) nations and we have gone by the standard which has been adopted by all SADC Member States.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that there would be a public carrier and a private carrier.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Lubinda for interrupting his follow up question.

Sir, digital migration is a very important issue and Zambia is going to be left behind if we do not deal with this issue properly. Further, there will be chaos as regard communication and television signals.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to explain which system is going to be used in the country, as it is very important? It is either the Japanese or the European system and the hon. Minister does not seem to know what system we will use. Is he in order to avoid telling us the system?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Under normal circumstances, I would have ruled that point of order out of order but, using my discretionary powers, I will allow the hon. Minister to see to it if he can clear the air on that particular aspect. 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, it is the European standard.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Masaiti.

Interruptions 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ah! I am sorry. The hon. Member for Kabwata was actually on the Floor before the point of order was raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was about to inquire what the distinction between the private signal carriers and public signal carriers will be. Further, will the ministry advertise for the private sector to apply to be private signal carriers? If it has not happened yet, when will that happen? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, no advertisement has been placed for the private signal carriers because no one has indicated intentions to be a private carrier. People would prefer to ride on a public signal distributor because signal distribution is a very expensive venture and that is why people are not showing interests.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was whether you advertised, but you are saying you did not because no one came forward. What comes first between coming forward and advertising? 

Laughter 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we have not advertised yet. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, how affordable will these set-top boxes be to ordinary citizens? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, they will be affordable.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: How?

SENIOR CHIEF SAILUNGA’S PERMANENT PALACE

Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs: 

(a)    when the Government would assist Senior Chief Sailunga in Mwinilunga Parliamentary Constituency to construct a modern and permanent palace; and 

(b)    when the Government would provide motor vehicles to all the chiefs who did not benefit from the Chiefs Motor Vehicle Scheme.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Ms Kawandami): Mr Speaker, the construction of the palaces is being done in a phased approach. In the first phase of the programme, the chiefs whose palaces are earmarked for construction in the North-Western Province are:

(a)    Chieftainess Kucheka – Zambezi District;

(b)    Chieftainess Ikelengi – Ikeleng’i District; and 

(c)    Senior Chief Kalilele – Solwezi District.

Mr Speaker, the construction of Chief Sailunga’s Palace will be considered in the 2015 Fiscal Year. According to the records at the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, all chiefs have been given motor vehicles. The ministry will consider newly-installed chiefs, who did not benefit from the earlier disbursement, subject to availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that assurance. Can I now inform Chief Sailunga that, in 2015, the palace will be constructed?

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, is it not prudent for the hon. Minister to just bring an Annual Work Plan to the House so that we are able to check which palaces will be constructed this year, than for us to continue asking questions?

Ms Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I mentioned to the hon. Member that when funds are given to the ministry in 2015, it will consider building that palace. 
Ms Kawandami: Mr Speaker, the list will be availed to the hon. Members of Parliament through their pigeonholes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, it appears that there is no clear motor vehicle policy that is given as regards the chiefs’ motor schemes. Will a policy be initiated and circulated to the chiefs to guide them on what happens to a motor vehicle when a chief dies or …

Mr Pande: When it breaks down!

Mr Muchima: …who repairs the motor vehicles in case of a break down? I am asking this question because there is confusion in the palaces when such things happen. Is your ministry willing to prepare a policy statement …

Mr Deputy Speaker: The question is clear.

Ms Kawandami: Mr Speaker, there is no motor vehicle policy for the chiefs right now. Chiefs are expected to repair their vehicles when they break down. All the 289 chiefs in the country were given vehicles. What is happening is that when a chief is installed and a vehicle in that palace is a write-off, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs always buys a vehicle for that chief. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, what is the standard cost of putting up a palace?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, according to the architectural plans that were approved by the House of Chiefs, the standard cost for those that we wanted to construct for the Paramount Chiefs was K950,000. The cost for the other chiefs’ palaces was at K650,000. We had a discussion with the chiefs and we told them that this was not sustainable and that we had changed the manner in which the palaces were going to be constructed. At the moment, the cost has gone down by half.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, would it not be prudent to buy these vehicles for the chiefdoms rather than for the chiefs? I am asking this question because the chiefdoms are there forever and ever and the chiefs, being human, do die at some point and this produces complications.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in fact, the reason these vehicles were made available to the chiefs was to facilitate their development activities in terms of going round the chiefdoms. Therefore, these vehicles are supposed to serve the chiefdom and not the chief alone. However, let me hasten to say that when these vehicles were distributed, there were no proper policies to guide the chiefs on how to use them. The chiefs, then, started using these vehicles for their personal errands. We have now developed a policy which will be submitted to Cabinet for approval. This will, then, be circulated for everybody’s information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, have we made it very specific that these palaces we are building are for the whole chiefdom and not for the chiefs alone? I am asking this question because we had built the Fwenuka and the Chona chiefdoms before Independence and those palaces have since been deserted. That time, the chiefs were attached to the Judiciary and now, they are under the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. How are we going to ensure that we are not building houses for individual chiefs?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in fact, what we are building are not houses for chiefs. We are actually building institutional palaces. These palaces do have certain features that will make it difficult for anybody to claim them. These were also presented to the House of Chiefs and the chiefs know that they are not personal houses. Furthermore, guidelines have also been developed and circulated to all the provinces. The location of the palaces is not being done by the chiefs, but the royal establishments.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, how many places does the Government plan to build by the end of 2016?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I am not sure how many we would have built by 2016, but I know that, this year, we have earmarked the construction of thirty palaces. Next year, since we have more resources that have been allocated to the ministry, we have earmarked the construction of fifty palaces. Depending on the availability of funds, we will, then, be able to come back to this House to inform it how many will be built in 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, there are certain chiefdoms where a succeeding chief cannot occupy the house in which a former chief used to live. Do you not think it will be a waste of money to build such institutional homes when you know that the one who will take over will not stay there due to fear of black magic? 

Laughter

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the discussion of the construction of palaces was done at the level of the House of Chiefs. What we have been informed is that if a chief dies in the house, the succeeding chief cannot live in that house. 

Therefore, one of the discussions that is on the table, at the moment, is to ensure that the chiefs have their own private homes, but we will also build institutional houses. Unless it is a heart attack, when somebody is ailing, they are likely to die in their own home.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, chiefs and headmen play a very important role in as far as uniting the people is concerned. Therefore, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are plans to start giving the headmen allowances.

Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, my ministry has no plans whatsoever to give allowances to headmen because it is not sustainable. Some of the chiefdoms have something in the order of 300 or more headmen ...

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, in the House!

Prof. Luo: … and if you multiply that by the 289 chiefs, it is not sustainable. I would not like to ever put my Government in a situation in which its Budget is burst.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why chiefs are not encouraged to have a system similar to the Mbeza Governing System, which was used in the Southern Province, as a way to build these institutional houses?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we have actually discussed three options for the construction of the chiefs’ palaces and the chiefs will have to choose the manner in which they would like their palaces constructed. The chiefs themselves suggested to the House of Chiefs that they would like a situation where the community participates so that some resources are left in that community. There is also a suggestion to use other systems such as the Zambia National Service (ZNS) in the construction. So, the choice is up to the chief.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned the fact that thirty palaces will be constructed this year. I would like to know the breakdown of those palaces, province by province, and, if possible, district by district.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that we will bring the list to the pigeon holes. However, for the benefit of the Questioner, who comes from the Southern Province, the construction of palaces in the Southern Province will be as follows; Chieftainess Mwenda of Chikankata, Chieftainess Moono of Monze and Chief Chona of Monze.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Minister is telling the House is a major transition in our cultural well-being. The construction of institutional houses for chiefs is modernisation of tradition and I am sure there are challenges in that kind of transition.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is the question?

Prof. Lungwangwa: Can the hon. Minister inform the House and, through it, the nation, the challenges that are embedded in the modernisation of our tradition through the construction of institutional houses for chiefs.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I think we will only be able to share those challenges when we start the construction. I want to inform this House that on Thursday, we will have the groundbreaking ceremony in Chief Mwenda’s Chiefdom and, maybe, that is when I will face some challenges which I will bring to the House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_________

MOTION

BUDGET 2015

(Debate resumed)

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, unfortunately I had almost run out of time. However, I was challenging the hon. Minister of Finance that, as he implements the Budget for 2015 and prepares to bring the Budget for 2016 to this House, he must focus on the critical area of poverty reduction through job and wealth creation for the majority of our people.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Motion that was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance pertaining to the 2015 Budget. However, before I do that, I would like to pay my condolences …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … to the families of the children who perished on Lake Kariba who were endeavouring to attend the independence celebration in Gwembe. I would like our good Lord to look after them and ensure that they sit on His right hand.

Mr Speaker, the first issue that I would like to address, which is in the Budget Speech, relates to the health system, as it is prevailing in the country. It is a fact that medical services in this country have collapsed. The situation obtaining in our health institutions is pathetic and it is an embarrassment to the people of this country to the extent that our dear President has decided not to be attended to, by way of a medical checkup, by our health institutions because the services are so pathetic.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: He has decided to go to London where there are better medical services.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, fifty years down the line, we cannot afford to provide quality medical checkups in this country.

Mr Shakafuswa: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is a shame.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: If you went to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) Mortuary in the morning, you would be shocked to see queues of people waiting to pick bodies of their relatives.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is a shame.

Mr Shakafuswa: It is a shame.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, when I was the Town Clerk for the Lusaka City Council (LCC), everyday in Lusaka, we would bury not less than 100 people. If you multiple that, it meant that, in a month, there would be around 3,600 burials ...

Mr Shakafuswa: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and at the end of the year, there would be more than 36,000 people buried.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, the Government spent lavishly on the Independence celebrations, whereas, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … on that same day, when our colleagues were celebrating independence, our people could not even get panadol at the UTH because there was no medicine. There is a shortage of medicines in most clinics.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: You can say question, but the people of Zambia are listening. Those who are unfortunate and have their beloved ones in these hospitals know what I am talking about. If you go to the UTH, you will see that there are no bed spaces. Our people are sleeping on the floor. I am aware of that fact because one of my constituents came to be attended to at the UTH. She had her arm amputated, but there was no morphine. The poor lady was in pain, and so, I had to go to Hon. Lubinda’s constituency in Kabwata to buy a pain killer for her. That just shows that our health services have gone down. 

Sir, yesterday, there was an article by Hon. Nawakwi who was proposing that the maternity wing at the UTH be closed because it is unsafe for our mothers to be delivering from there. Yet, on 24th October, our colleagues were wining and dining at Inter Continental Hotel at the expense of the people who are dying at the UTH.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is a shame. We must find money to improve our health services. I know that you, colleagues, are lucky and if you get sick, you will be repatriated to receive treatment outside the country. However, the majority of people are wallowing in poverty and squalour and cannot access good services in this country, fifty years after independence.

Mr Speaker, I had gone out for my medication, and upon my return, I was told that tomorrow, we will have a memorial service for twenty-five pupils who drowned on Lake Kariba, who had no other mode of transport, but a banana boat, …

Mr Muntanga: Because of the bad road from the school.

Mr Mwiimbu: … because of the bad road from the school to the area where they were going to have their celebrations, and yet we can afford, as a country, to spend lavishly at the expense of people who are suffering. 

Sir, it is high time we searched our conscience over the things that we do. It is not a good thing.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo, you can be making those comments and talking like that because you have no heart for the people in Munali Parliamentary Constituency who are suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, when you go to Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital, which is in Munali Constituency, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think this is where you put us, as presiding officers, in a quandary. We always guide and advise that the person debating is the one who has been allowed to express his or her views with which you may agree or disagree. However, that does not mean you should be making running commentaries while seated. That complicates our work in the sense that, sometimes, I may not hear what comment is made by someone. So, the best way to avoid that is just to listen and if you have the opportunity, you can, then, also counter the argument by a fellow hon. Member. So, could we be orderly.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Dr Kaingu interjected.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am just from guiding the House and hon. Member for Mwandi, you are doing exactly what I am advising against.

Mr Muntanga: He is an example.

Mr Deputy Speaker: He is a bad example.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am making an earnest appeal to my colleagues on your right that, as we debate this Budget, we must seriously look at the plight of our people, especially those in the peri-urban and rural areas whom we represent. The services we are offering to our people are very shoddy and below par. That is why this Government is spending a lot of money sending people outside the country for treatment and that is being done at a great cost. Most of those people who are accessing this facility are well-to-do. Those poor villagers in Nalolo, on whose behalf, at one time, Hon. Wina made a very passionate appeal on the Floor of this House, only have a scotch cart as an ambulance available in that constituency. Fifty years down the line, and we are still providing shoddy services to our people.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, if there is a way of making virements to the Votes we have, let us do that so that the Ministry of Health could be given adequate funds to enable it to provide for our people.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, it is not a good thing. For those who have never gone to the UTH, it is about visiting time now, you go to the UTH and see what is happening now. Those who are supposed to be attended to by specialists are being given appointments to go back and be seen by a specialist after six months. That is so even if they are unable to walk. The majority of those who have been given those appointments die before their time of seeing the doctor comes.  So, you can imagine the feelings of our people over this plight.

Sir, today is 28th October, 2014, and our farmers have, to date, not been given their money. They sold their produce to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) expecting that once they were paid the money, they would be able to take their children to school, make down payments towards the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and also be able to pay for medical facilities. Unfortunately, our farmers have not been paid to date, and yet we were assured, on the Floor of this House, that within fourteen days of delivery to the FRA, the farmers would be paid. They were condemning our colleagues that the maladies that used to be there during the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government would never happen again, but it is now the order of the order. The situation is even worse.

Mr Speaker, in Chinsali, the farmers almost demonstrated and threatened to lift the District Commissioner (DC) there because of the Government’s failure to pay the farmers. The area hon. Member of Parliament could not rescue him. That is the situation everywhere. It is a sad situation and I hope that the hon. Minister of Finance, who is listening attentively, will find money to ensure that our farmers are paid.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that we have a problem of street vending in Zambia. The situation is, however, getting worse day by day. This can be seen on roads like Freedom Way and Lumumba in Lusaka. In my constituency, along the main road, even those who want to attend church service at the Catholic Church have to seek permission from street vendors to pass on the way to church.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we must find a solution to this problem. I am aware that this Parliament has been accorded the opportunity to hold one of the biggest conferences in the world; the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) for 2016. Surely, would we want to invite more than 4,000 people from other countries as tourists, but instead showcase our squalor and expose them to diseases like cholera in this country?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, people who are irresponsible do not grow horns, but they can be seen by their comments.

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu: For the sake of this country, I am appealing that we have sanity. One day when there will be a serious outbreak …

Ms Kapata: Where?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, please, I do not want to really embarrass anybody. Can we keep order.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I shudder to think what will happen if there is a serious outbreak of a disease in this country. We should not forget that at one time, here in Lusaka, we lost more than 1,000 lives because of cholera. I recall that at that time, Hon. Nkandu Luo was hon. Minister of Health. She and I used to meet everyday in the morning trying to control cholera.

Mr Mbulakulima: Sure? 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is a fact.

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu: Further, Mr Speaker, the way our people are trading along the roads, especially on Lumumba Road, is a danger to them. That is the road that truckers use. One day, we are going to have a catastrophe on that road. A truck will career off the road and plough into our people and a lot of them will die. The responsibility will be on us. Therefore, I am appealing to all of us, without any political inclination, to find a solution to this issue of street vending.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that a lot of our colleagues have been complaining or lamenting roads not being worked on, as promised by the Ruling Party. We would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to have a very transparent system whereby all of us will benefit from the so-called unprecedented development pertaining to road infrastructure. What I know about the term ‘unprecedented’ is that it means something has never happened in the past. I also know that most of the major roads were worked on during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) regime …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Lubinda: Let him now debate the Budget.

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have been requested by the hon. Member for Kabwata to debate the Budget. I would like to state that in Kabwata, which is a constituency near my home, we need a lot of facilities there. We need good roads and health facilities, which have collapsed in Kabwata. I hope that when the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata stands to speak, he will support me on that particular issue.

Mr Speaker, the Southern Province has been afflicted by a drought situation and on the Floor of this House, we have been appealing to the Government to ensure that a lot of dams are constructed in the province to enable our farmers to irrigate their crops. We hope that this time around, our cries will be heard.

Mr Speaker, we also want to appeal to the Government to ensure that the disease control programme in …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: … the Southern Province and other areas are enhanced. As I speak this afternoon, there is an outbreak of swine fever in Monze and this is going to affect a lot of our people. We hope that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock will take urgent remedial measures, as was done in other areas, to ensure that our people do not lose their livestock.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to appeal to our colleagues on your right to ensure that the indiscipline that is in their party does not affect the operations of the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Mwiimbu: We are aware that yesterday or the day before, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Member for Monze Central, you know that we are debating the Budget and I am failing to see the correlation between indiscipline in a party and the Budget. Maybe, you can try to manage your comments in such a way that I should be able to understand.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, in the Budget, there is a component that deals with issues of security and law and order and that is where I am marrying this issue. We have reports of our colleague and friend, Hon. Musenge Mwenya, being harassed at his office on the Copperbelt. This is an hon. Government Minister who was being harassed by party cadres. That should not be allowed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: In the past, we had witnessed a lot of District Commissioners offices being shutdown and District Commissioners being harassed, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … but now it has extended to hon. Deputy Ministers. After them, it will be hon. Ministers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Thereafter, it will be His Honour the Vice-President and it will go further up. This is a situation which we should not allow to continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: The Patriotic Front (PF) should cage its party cadres. Its members should lead by example. The PF is  the party in the Government. We would like to have peace and stability in this country.

With those few remarks, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity you have given me this afternoon to contribute to the 2015 National Budget Debate, on behalf of the people of Nchelenge.

Mr Speaker, the 2015 National Budget has spoken to the President’s Speech which his Excellency the President delivered on the Floor of this House, on the occasion of the Ceremonial Opening of the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly on 19th September, 2014. The two speeches have clearly spoken to each other. They have synchronised well. The hon. Minister of Finance has placed emphasis on those areas which His Excellency the President drew the attention of the people to.

Mr Speaker, in terms of the Micro-Economic Framework, if we like, we can call it the housing, or the hull, it has continued to be very robust. It is firm and strong. It has been so in the last three years and it is anticipated to be like that in the next two years, to coincide with the end of the first term in office of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: It is also anticipated to remain strong in the medium-term. This is actually owing to the grip that this administration has had on the economy. 

Mr Speaker, in terms of the macro-economic parameters, that is inflation, interest rates, the exchange rate as well as the economic growth, these have been relatively stable and firmly under control. 

Sir, in terms of public financial management, this administration has made innovations which will, ultimately, improve budget execution. We are talking about the Treasury single account and the recent introduction, which is the Output-Based Budgeting.

Mr Speaker, the Output-Based Budgeting, as we are all aware, is going to be piloted next year, 2015. I heard of the enactment of the Planning and Budget Act. This is laudable. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to turn to allocations, which is the demand side of the Budget and I will just deal with a few highlights. The hon. Minister of Finance has introduced as well as established the Local Government Equalisation Fund and has made a very substantial allocation to this Vote to a tune of K586 million. This is a very practical step towards implementation of the Decentralisation Policy, particularly the aspect of fiscal decentralisation. Power will sufficiently devolve to councils countrywide.

In terms of agricultural diversification, we have been told by the hon. Minister of Finance that, next year, the e-voucher system will be implemented. So, this is one aspect of attempting to diversify our agriculture sector. This has been our outcry for quite some time.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and Cabinet have increased the allocation to the social protection sector. The same has happened to the education sector and also to road infrastructure development. In terms of revenue and financing, this is the supply side of the Budget, supplying resources to match the allocations. 

Mr Speaker, domestic revenue has been increasing. Local borrowing has started to reduce. Grants have equally been reducing. When grants are reducing, it is an indication that domestic revenue is increasing. 

In terms of the total quantum, which is the Budget itself, we have seen a modest increase. The increase has been very marginal or conservative. Now, what does this imply? It means that we are keeping in line with fiscal prudence. So, this administration must be lauded for this.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, topical among revenue measures is the proposed Mineral Royalty Tax. We have all seen that there has been a change in the way we have been taxing the mines. This clearly answers the so many concerns of our people about not benefitting from their God given resource.

Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Mpundu: … the sins of the past in this sector will, therefore, become monumental. We will no longer have to talk about that because we will have corrected the situation. On whether the proposed tax rates, which are 8 per cent and 20 per cent on different types of mining, that is, underground as well as open cast, represent the optimal effective tax rate as well as optimal tax benefits, which His Excellency the President called, “the win, win situation,” for both the nation and the mining houses, we will leave this to the hon. Minister of Finance and the Cabinet to moderate.

Mr Speaker, allow me to look into the future. As we look at future Budget developments, perhaps, it could be prudent if we could consider the following; first of all, it is to continue on the path of projecting the Budget very conservatively, owing to the fact that the resources available to this country are limited. We do not have enough in our resource envelope, particularly, so because we have now made a different Budget orientation, where we will be implementing the Output-Based Budgeting. We will be looking at results. So, we will place a huge responsibility on controlling officers. 

Mr Speaker, it will be important that we also begin to make further allocations to those sectors where …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! There is too much …

Mr Mpundu: … our people are …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Member! 

I fail to understand why you fail to consult quietly in order to allow the person debating to be heard. If you want to make loud consultations, you can quietly walk into the corridor and consult and then come back.

Hon. Member on the Floor, you may continue.

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that it will be important, going forward, that we make further allocations to those sectors on which the majority of people depend. The sectors on which most of our people depend are agriculture, manufacturing and tourism. It would also be very important, if, we explored opportunities further to reduce the cost of doing business in this country and across all sectors of the economy. 

Mr Speaker, it would also be very important to reconsider not making advance payments to contractors. Let them use their own money. This would be one of the ways of trying to curb corruption in public procurement. It would also be important to limit the profits that all contractors, who are engaged by the Government for the provision of goods and services, get. It is totally unacceptable that abnormal profits should be made on Government contracts. We are talking about people’s money. It should not be the case.

Mr Speaker, it is also important that we consider lowering the cost of sinking boreholes. The amount of money that is allocated to the water and sanitation sector is considerable, but we do not get value in terms of water points. We get very few of them. If we controlled the cost of water points, we could do twice as much for the same amount of money that is available to this vote.
    
Mr Speaker, we must endeavour to make the Civil Service more efficient. The rationale behind this is that the nation will get value for the money that is spent from the Budget.

Mr Speaker, lastly, the 2015 National Budget, which was presented by the able hon. Minister of Finance, makes a lot of economic sense and I, therefore, support it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Budget Address delivered to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, I note that the hon. Minister of Finance talked about the Golden Jubilee Celebrations in his preamble. I received an invitation to go to the Heroes Stadium but, at the same time, we adjourned so that we could join the celebrations in our constituencies. My going to the constituency rather than attending the celebrations in Lusaka was a wise one.

Sir, I watched with kin interest how our people in a rural constituency celebrated and thanked God for the fifty years of our political independence. At the same time, I was struck by what we have not done. 

Mr Speaker, it is true that in the area of education, as has been stated previously, we had only a hundred graduates. We also had very few school certificate holders who were more of standards five and six.

Mr Speaker, the policy of the Northern Rhodesia Government and Federation was that it would only educate an African to be a clerk. Alas, fifty years later, we have experimented with the secondary school system that I and many of my colleagues here went through, then the basic education system and now reverted to the secondary school system of education.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that some achievements have been made in the education sector. However, we could have done better. We could have done better in the sense that at fifty years, we should have been talking about perfecting the system rather than experimenting with it. However, these experiments are here with us and we find the need for more teachers in our schools. 

We also learnt from the hon. Minister of Finance that 75 per cent of revenue is spent on personal emoluments or related expenditures with only 25 per cent for the Civil Service to work with. Under education, there seems to be some reasonable allocation, but considering the population increase and need for infrastructure development, it still falls short of meeting the barest minimum more so when the quality of education really needs to be strengthened. 

Mr Speaker, I note that there is a proposal to add 5,000 teachers to the school system. While it is commendable on one hand, we are increasing on the need to spend money on the Civil Service on the other.

Mr Speaker, our population predominantly consists of young people. The 2010 Census counted 13 million of us and we find that more than 60 per cent of this population is twenty-four years or younger. In fact, if we have to go further to thirty-five years, it goes to 80 per cent of the population. What does that mean? On one hand, it is a challenge because of the high dependency ratio and an opportunity on the other. What are we planning for these young people? We have to engage them in productive work. 

Mr Speaker, I note that we need university education. However, I feel that there should have been a balance between skills training in our trades training institutes and the universities. After all, who drives the industrial engine of any nation? It is the artisans, the technicians and the technologists whereas the graduates are there to provide research and direction.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I observe that there are plans to build universities such as the King Lewanika and others. I do not know whether it is too late to implore the hon. Minister of Finance and the PF Government in general to accelerate skills training. Why? It is because skills training caters for the majority of the population in our country. Once people have skills, they will not only be employers, but will also self-employ. 

There must be an added policy by the Government to identify where the skilled young people are and ensure that they are engaged by the many investors coming in the country as readily available skilled labour. This way, we will not have lost much. However, to just train them and expect that they can find their way in the society, like is the case at the moment, is not directing our energies and resources prudently. We definitely can do better.

Mr Speaker, the question of job creation is a real one. I read in September, 2013, where it was announced that the Ministry of Tourism and Art would create 300 thousand jobs. Sir, when one listens to that, one is tickled and has hope. However, the question is how can be this be done?  We have to look at the facilities that are available. As the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), we embarked on the development of the Northern Circuit …

Mr Pande: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Brian Chituwo: … which has been abandoned completely. As a result, we can only sell our Victoria Falls. As was ably articulated by the former Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, the average stay of tourist in our country is only three days and we are only able to realise, on average, US$600, assuming that a tourist spends US$200 per night whereas in South Africa they spend nine days. 

Mr Speaker, there is a need to not just announce these isolated jobs. Having read one article and a book, 300 thousand jobs would be translated into construction of 450 intercontinental size hotels, each of these having on average 224 beds and directly employing 500 people and another 150 indirectly making it 650 jobs.

Mr Speaker, it is also important that we consider lowering the cost of sinking boreholes. The amount of money that is allocated to the water and sanitation sector is considerable, but we do not get value in terms of water points. We get very few of them. If we controlled the cost of water points, we could do twice as much for the same amount of money that is available to this vote.
    
Mr Speaker, we must endeavour to make the Civil Service more efficient. The rationale behind this is that the nation will get value for the money that is spent from the Budget.

Mr Speaker, lastly, the 2015 National Budget, which was presented by the able hon. Minister of Finance, makes a lot of economic sense and I, therefore, support it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Budget Address delivered to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, I note that the hon. Minister of Finance talked about the Golden Jubilee Celebrations in his preamble. I received an invitation to go to the Heroes Stadium but, at the same time, we adjourned so that we could join the celebrations in our constituencies. My going to the constituency rather than attending the celebrations in Lusaka was a wise one.

Sir, I watched with kin interest how our people in a rural constituency celebrated and thanked God for the fifty years of our political independence. At the same time, I was struck by what we have not done. 

Mr Speaker, it is true that in the area of education, as has been stated previously, we had only a hundred graduates. We also had very few school certificate holders who were more of standards five and six.

Mr Speaker, the policy of the Northern Rhodesia Government and Federation was that it would only educate an African to be a clerk. Alas, fifty years later, we have experimented with the secondary school system that I and many of my colleagues here went through, then the basic education system and now reverted to the secondary school system of education.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that some achievements have been made in the education sector. However, we could have done better. We could have done better in the sense that at fifty years, we should have been talking about perfecting the system rather than experimenting with it. However, these experiments are here with us and we find the need for more teachers in our schools. 

We also learnt from the hon. Minister of Finance that 75 per cent of revenue is spent on personal emoluments or related expenditures with only 25 per cent for the Civil Service to work with. Under education, there seems to be some reasonable allocation, but considering the population increase and need for infrastructure development, it still falls short of meeting the barest minimum more so when the quality of education really needs to be strengthened. 

Mr Speaker, I note that there is a proposal to add 5,000 teachers to the school system. While it is commendable on one hand, we are increasing on the need to spend money on the Civil Service on the other.

Mr Speaker, our population predominantly consists of young people. The 2010 Census counted 13 million of us and we find that more than 60 per cent of this population is twenty-four years or younger. In fact, if we have to go further to thirty-five years, it goes to 80 per cent of the population. What does that mean? On one hand, it is a challenge because of the high dependency ratio and an opportunity on the other. What are we planning for these young people? We have to engage them in productive work. 

Mr Speaker, I note that we need university education. However, I feel that there should have been a balance between skills training in our trades training institutes and the universities. After all, who drives the industrial engine of any nation? It is the artisans, the technicians and the technologists whereas the graduates are there to provide research and direction.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I observe that there are plans to build universities such as the King Lewanika and others. I do not know whether it is too late to implore the hon. Minister of Finance and the PF Government in general to accelerate skills training. Why? It is because skills training caters for the majority of the population in our country. Once people have skills, they will not only be employers, but will also self-employ. 

There must be an added policy by the Government to identify where the skilled young people are and ensure that they are engaged by the many investors coming in the country as readily available skilled labour. This way, we will not have lost much. However, to just train them and expect that they can find their way in the society, like is the case at the moment, is not directing our energies and resources prudently. We definitely can do better.

Mr Speaker, the question of job creation is a real one. I read in September, 2013, where it was announced that the Ministry of Tourism and Art would create 300 thousand jobs. Sir, when one listens to that, one is tickled and has hope. However, the question is how can be this be done?  We have to look at the facilities that are available. As the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), we embarked on the development of the Northern Circuit …

Mr Pande: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Brian Chituwo: … which has been abandoned completely. As a result, we can only sell our Victoria Falls. As was ably articulated by the former Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, the average stay of tourist in our country is only three days and we are only able to realise, on average, US$600, assuming that a tourist spends US$200 per night whereas in South Africa they spend nine days. 

Mr Speaker, there is a need to not just announce these isolated jobs. Having read one article and a book, 300 thousand jobs would be translated into construction of 450 intercontinental size hotels, each of these having on average 224 beds and directly employing 500 people and another 150 indirectly making it 650 jobs.

Mr Speaker, to have bed occupancy of 60 per cent in these hotels, the country needs to have 6.5 million visitors. It was stated in 2013 and 2014 that the ministry created 300,000 jobs. Did this ministry and the Government generally consider that tender procedures would be flouted for people to come and build these hotels? Secondly, have we made concerted effort in terms of inviting investors-to-be? How sustainable would this be? The point I am making is that it is very good to announce that a certain number of jobs are going to be created. However, it appears that we need an analyst at State House to ask the question: How are these numbers going to be realised?  I say this because it appears that quite a number of hon. Ministers just announce these things without in-depth analysis. That cannot be good for our country. Announcing these numbers creates hope, but that hope will soon be actually hopelessness because those things will not be realised. I ask that when we stand up to announce certain things, please, let us take into account whether these things are doable or not because it will not take long before we are seen not to be telling the whole truth if we do not do this.

Mr Speaker, I have spoken about trades training institutes, education and job creation. As we have a predominantly young population, it is stated that by 2030, Zambia’s population would have doubled. What are we preparing for these young people? 

Mr Speaker, I note that the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated a sum of money to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to purchase maize. It will require more than just words to truly devote the Government to purchase more than the amount of maize needed for the strategic food reserves. It will require political will to do this. The farmers must be paid on time so that they can be encouraged to diversify and look out for other markets other than the FRA. All this is within the Government’s ability, but it requires political will.

Mr Speaker, there is the question of the health sector which has been allocated 9.6 per cent of the total Budget. Yes, we are not there yet on meeting the commitment that we made, as a nation, with regard to having 10 per cent of the national Budget allocated to the health sector. Once again, we are nowhere near addressing the issues that need to be looked at critically. On one hand, this Government seems to have put emphasis on curative measures. I would have been happier to see more emphasis put on prevention. Prevention is important because it is sustainable and cost effective.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of human resource, there is a pronouncement that 2,000 health workers will be trained. Here is my suggestion; we have health institutions where there are only one or two health workers. Let us respond adequately and speedily to these communities by forming a health task force that can respond to areas hit by critical shortage of manpower and provide the necessary health care in those communities and move on to the next one.

Mr Speaker, one may say that we have mobile hospitals to do that, but these are expensive. I am suggesting that in order to respond to these crises all over – if we are monitoring the human resource, we can try to exercise equity in health care provision. At the moment, in the rural areas, we have dedicated health workers, but they have no tools with which to work. How can they work if they have no operational grant for three or four months? It appears that civil servants and health workers, in particular, sit back to wait for a salary at the end of the month, but these are professionals who are highly frustrated if they are not able to exercise their skills. Here is a suggestion, provide a flexible mobile health care force that can meet those urgent requirements in many parts of our country.

Mr Speaker, I note too that in the economic sphere, there is mention of Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs). I also saw the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport trotting around the country issuing cheques to youths. These programmes for empowering the youths seem to be plausible under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), but I wonder whether there is a strong monitoring mechanism. What I would suggest to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is for it to rethink the establishment of the co-operative movement. Those who are old enough can recollect how the Southern, Central and Eastern Province Co-operative unions were so strong that this issue of the Government distributing Urea or D-Compound fertiliser was not there. That job was left to the co-operative movement. It would take these inputs to the farmers and collect what had been produced by the farmers. In doing so, it combated the issue of poverty. In fact, the hon. Minister of Finance is very much aware of how strong the co-operative movement was. However, when we came into power, for political reasons, the co-operative movement was abolished. However, we can go back to it because there are good lessons to learn from there. If we do not go back to establishing the co-operative movements, we shall be talking about having 60 per cent poverty levels in the rural areas in every Budget. Yet, it is the rural folks who produce the food that the people in the urban areas need so much. It is an injustice. We keep using these people to an extent of abusing them in back-breaking production of these crops, and yet they do not get out of poverty. 

Mr Speaker, on the same point of empowerment, I read about this Industrial Development Commission (INDECO). Again, the hon. Minister of Finance is aware of the genesis of INDECO and the Zambia Industrial and Mining Corporation (ZIMCO). I was a young man, but I recall that the idea of having these institutions was to encourage indigenous people to get into business because the white settlers had dominated the business industry and did not want a black person or indigenous person to also be involved. Therefore, the formation of INDECO was to empower the indigenous people to participate in business. However, we have now moved on from that era. Now, indigenous people are participating in businesses albeit on a smaller scale. Surely, ours must be to promote those SMEs to participate effectively in business rather than bring back an institution from thirty years ago that served its purpose in its time. Towards the end, INDECO was full of nepotism, corruption and you name it because politics were employed in the running of the institution to create employment.

Sir, I notice that I have run out of time. I had copious notes, but alas. I was to end by saying that unless pronounced sectors like agriculture, education and health are looked into seriously, this Budget, next year’s and the one after that will not do much for job creation and poverty reduction. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance. 

Mr Speaker, I have always mentioned that these Budget presentations do not differ at all. Budgets have always been presented in the same format except, maybe, in content in terms of figures which I see changing year in and year out. 

The 2015 Budget is almost double the 2012 one. I want to remind my father, the hon. Minister of Finance, that in his first Budget presentation, he was very categorical when he stated that he did not want to pronounce professional words like “micro”, “macro” and so on, which the people of Shang’ombo could not even eat. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Chama North!

Mr Zimba: As well as the people of Chama North. 

Mr Speaker, I remember that presentation well because I was very happy during his presentation. At that moment, I thought to myself that we were coming to a time when our people could be rescued from poverty and all other problems.  

Mr Speaker, comparing this year’s Budget to last year’s, you will discover the unfortunate fact that we are passing Budgets without realising their performances.  
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: This has been my main concern, as a parliamentarian. As a people’s representative, I have issues which I know should be addressed. Therefore, when I am passing the present Budget, I must be satisfied with the execution of the previous one. This is the way Parliament must work. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: If we do not go that way, we shall always be called rubberstamps, which is a very unfortunate term for us as representatives. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The use of the word “rubberstamp” is not parliamentary. 

Mr Zimba: That is a word which has always been talked about.

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Zimba, you risk being told to sit down. If you are going to challenge The Chair, you may be stopped. Can you continue ,but without challenging The Chair.  

Mr Zimba: I apologise, Sir, and withdraw the word. 

Mr Speaker, in analysing this Budget, without going left or right, I want to say that I am impressed with certain issues which the hon. Minister has put in place. If these issues are to translate into reality we will be able to do greater things in this nation. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has outlined, very clearly, in his Budget that developmental programmes for this nation are mainly inclined towards mining and agriculture. I am talking about a line which has impressed me. 

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has heard the cries of the Zambian people concerning the extractive industry. This industry, from what we know, is the backbone of our economy. When people lament guarding our backbone jealously and maximising the revenue collection from it, the hon. Minister of Finance must be able to listen. This is for the simple reason that resources, when extracted, do not come back. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: They are not like a manufacturing company of Ebo Soap.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: These are God-given resources. When they start depleting, no one can renew them. It is for this reason that I give credit, my very first since I started debating, to the hon. Minister of Finance …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: … for hearing the cries of all of us here. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: This is how we should work as Zambians. When we cry, we are not opposing the administration. We are giving advice. We do not want people to get advice when they leave office. 

Laughter 
Mr Zimba: It does not gain anything. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: The opportune time for one to open their ears and listen to what people are saying is when he or she has the opportunity to drive the management or system of a country. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Listen while you have the authority because when you no longer do, you cannot be responsive.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Hon. Minister of Finance, I give you credit for going flat out in the mining industry and taking steps to maximise the revenue collection. I give you a plus. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, I am very happy with the tax regime that the hon. Minister has applied in the mining sector. When we go this route, we are taking ownership of our resources. I know that we are in a private economy, but there are certain sectors in which we do not need to let things go just like that. We have to come in as Government and see how we can maximise our potential. Hon. Minister, I given you credit for the tax regime you have put in the extractive industry and I am very happy about it. I will never condemn anything in this area because it would be very unfair of me. 

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, I have to give a second credit to the hon. Minister. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mtolo: A second one?

Mr Zimba: If we want our economy to grow, the most important thing to look at is the petroleum industry in this country. I have seen prices being affected by the hike of fuel prices. These are very common things which we need to look at. If the hon. Minister of Finance does not come up with a roadmap on how he can deter the unnecessary hiking of fuel prices, then the whole economy will be in shambles. 

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: It may result in a situation where giving a pay rise to our workers becomes unnecessary for as long as the fuel prices keep going up. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: If, for instance, my salary is hiked 100 per cent today and the fuel prices go up 200 per cent, then, for what purpose is my pay rise? 

I give credit to the hon. Minister of Finance for outlining the fact that he is going to look at alternative ways of how to make this sector viable and make sure that prices do not always rise as a result of fuel. I have read the Budget and I give the hon. Minister of Finance credit …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: … because when we are able to produce our own fuel, we will not have hikes in commodity prices all the time. The price of commodities is always increasing because we depend on the global floor price of fuel. The moment the price of fuel goes up, we will get affected.

Mr Speaker, ordinary Zambians do not understand what we, as politicians, mean when we talk about increases on the international market that lead to hikes in prices. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: You need to look at alternatives because the people of Zambia do not want that type of explanation. The people of Zambia want the cost of living to come down. Every responsible government that takes over the reins of power looks at how it can alleviate the poverty levels of the people. If the cost of living is not reducing, then, we shall not be able to deal with the issues of our citizens.

Sir, I hope that the areas that the hon. Minister of Finance has outlined will be proactive. We do not want to hear the hon. Minister of Finance say that he is intending to find alternatives even in the next Budget Speech.

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: Let us implement this Budget so that people can believe that we are for them.

Interruptions 

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, I will talk about a third issue before I proceed to my analysis of one sector of the Budget. 

Sir, in Parliament, the folders that we have that contain what we call oral …

Hon. Members: Questions for oral answer.

Laughter 

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has heard the Executive say ‘due to erratic funding’ …

Mr Mushanga: When funds are made available. 

Mr J. Zimba: … or ‘when funds are available’. When we hear those responses, we as the Back Benchers, wonder what it means. We now have a Budget that has doubled in size from 2011 and I hope that the doubling of the Budget will address the issue of erratic funding.

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: I do not feel good when I analyse a big budget that only manages to execute very little. 

Sir, when I was analysing the Budget, I went to the section that talks about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and saw that it has not changed. However, when hon. Ministers are responding to a lot of these questions, they say that we can implement projects under the CDF. When I hear them say that, it makes me believe that they want me, Hon. Zimba, to lament the increase of the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: That is what I get from there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr J. Zimba: Mr Speaker, increasing the CDF will not deprive us of anything. 

Mr Musukwa interrupted.

Mr Zimba: You are adding value to the local people.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, the procurement process can affect the implementation of the Budget. Allow me to justify my request for an increase in the CDF. If you look at the performance of the 2014 Budget, you will discover that a lot of projects have not been implemented, to date, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: ... and when you ask the Executive, the response is that it is still at the procurement process or at design stage, and yet the year is ending.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Habeenzu: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Zimba: When you increase the CDF, parliamentarians will easily be able to help the Government in development and that is a very important thing. We want to stop the Executive from saying that they are still procuring materials, while the year ends and the Budget presentation for the next year comes before the projects are completed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Let us look at these issues because they are very important. I do not want my Government to be involved in a lengthy procurement process which will affect the very good Budget that the hon. Minister of Finance is proposing. If it is an issue of revisiting the procurement procedures, then, let us revisit them so that we can support the Budget. 

Mr Speaker, it is very cumbersome for the hon. Minister of Finance to take a whole year coming up with Budget, only for us to render help by not implementing it.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: Sir, let us look at the procurement procedures.

Mr Musukwa: Zimba wilalwala.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: If you cannot do that, then, you should increase the CDF allocation so that you cool the tempers of parliamentarians. They will not trouble you ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: … even if you are waiting for the procurement process to be completed.

Sir, we are helping in building schools and police posts using the CDF. This money does not go into my pocket after all.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Zimba: That is my analysis.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, the second thing …

Hon. Members: Aah! Number four.

Mr J. Zimba: No, that is analysis. I am analysing.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, secondly, when I was analysing the Budget, I saw that there is an issue of borrowing which I would like my father, the hon. Minister of Finance, to hear me out on. 

Sir, it is good to borrow. Even I borrow in my own home.

Laughter 

Mr Zimba: However, after borrowing, we should look at the prudence in the management of borrowed finances. 

Mr Mbulakulima interjected.

Mr Zimba: Sir, auditors have found regulations being floated in the midst of borrowing and it seems that we will have more culprits in the future than we have now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, I am very happy with what is happening at the Ministry of Works, Supply and Communication, however, we do not want development that is supposed to cost K50 billion costing us K100 billion due to the abuse of resources. We have to guard these resources jealousy. We need to look at the management of finances in the Civil Service.

Sir, we can built roads, but we risk spending more than we were supposed on roads ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Zimba: … because of the abuse of resources, when the hon. Minister of Finance and the President had good intentions. My advice is that we look at the management of resources in the Civil Service.

Sir, finally, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock must sit down with the hon. Minister of Finance to look at the marketing policy, which I mentioned when I was debating the President’s Speech. Are we private or not? In fact, I wanted to talk about the policy of privatisation, but I will talk about it later. 

Mr Speaker, let us look at the marketing policy. Our farmers need to know whether the Government will procure all the maize they grow or not. Once they know, we will have very little to explain to them because the policy would have already been explained clearly and it would state what the Government should do and who will purchase the excess maize.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to congratulate the six hon. Members of Parliament who recently made it to this House. I also want to congratulate our Hon. Victoria Kalima for coming back to Parliament.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I have read the Budget Speech …

Mr Mwale: Mahopo!

Mr Pande: … from the first word to the last one. It sounds good, especially if one is coming to Zambia for the first time. One can say that it is a very good Budget and I will come back to the reason I am saying so later. 

Mr Speaker, in my debate, I will concentrate on three issues. The first one concerns the issues that were raised by the hon. Minister of Finance regarding peaceful core-existence, multi-party democracy and the theme of the Budget. 

Sir, before I do that, I would like to give general comments on the speech. The first one is on our economic growth. Indeed, our economy has posted growth, but this is only visible to very few rich people because this growth is not trickling down to the lower levels. The gap between the rich and the poor continues to widen, especially in the past three years of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. Today, it is very difficult for people to have money. The only way to reverse this trend is for the hon. Minister to deliberately plan and implement a pro-poor Budget. 

Mr Speaker, this particular one cannot be called a pro-poor Budget. When you look at the 2012 Budget, 2013 Budget and 2014 Budget, you will find that there is very small difference.  Just like the previous speaker was saying, it may be the figures that are different. The Budget is key to provide development and it must be tailored to include the poor people. The World Bank defines poverty as: 

“Poverty is where households or individuals have no enough resources or abilities today to meet their needs.”

Mr Speaker, in my view, poverty levels are higher even in Lusaka.  If people cannot afford to take their children to school, to get a bag of roller mealie-meal, cannot have jobs and resort to begging, that is poverty. Poverty levels are as high in Lusaka as they are in the rural areas. 

Mr Speaker, a nation celebrating fifty years of independence should be more serious. This Budget should have empowered all its citizens to gain economic independence and not just a few.  

Sir, the other comment I would like to make is that this is an over ambitious Budget. When you look at the projects that were put in the 2012 Budget, 2013 Budget and 2014 Budget, like other speakers have indicated, they still appear even in the 2015 Budget. If you look at the amounts that are in the Budget and the revenue, I doubt if we will be able to achieve what we have put in the 2015 Budget.

Mr Speaker, coming back to the theme, the PF Government, through the Ministry of Finance, has missed an opportunity to unite this nation. This Golden Jubilee should have given us an opportunity to reflect on the future of people of this country because this country should move as one. I expected this to appear not only in the theme of the Budget, but also in the implementation of the Budget. I am an ardent supporter of the “One Zambia, one nation” Motto. This theme is just on paper. Since the PF Government took over office, it has been very good at making pronouncements. It made pronouncements such as creating many jobs, more money in people’s pockets and delivering the Constitution in ninety days, just to mention a few. 

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the past three budgets contained promises, but nothing has been achieved. As an hon. Member from the North-Western Province, I have noticed that these promises have always been appearing on paper. We have talked about the peaceful core-existence in a multi-party democracy, but I feel that the PF Government does not understand the term, “democracy.” It is threatening core-existence because of the way it implements the Budget …

Interruptions

Mr Pande: … and looks at the democracy. Democracy entails that there must be free expression of opinion by people, freedom of assembly and freedom of association which, for now, is non-existent in our country. 

Mr Speaker, you have talked about reducing inequity. The other day, someone on that side (right) of the House was waving a pamphlet or a book in which the infrastructure projects are listed. We have seen that list and for the North Western Province, there is nothing to talk about. The PF Government has been boasting about massive infrastructure development in the country, but for the North-Western Province, nothing has been done. We will end up just looking at the list. Equity means that these resources should be shared equally for us to start our projects and not merely looking at the list.  

Mr Speaker, when we speak on the Floor of this House, we are not politicking. We are the representatives of the people of the North-Western Province and we are talking about what the people are saying. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Sir, they are saying that you have ignored them. The cries of the people of the North-Western Province are falling on deaf ears. 

Hon. MMD Members: Mawe! 

Mr Pande: Sir, the people are saying that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project has been implemented, but the projects in the North-Western Province, particularly the Solwezi/Chingola Road, are not included in Phase I. 

When will the Government start working on the Solwezi/Chingola, Kasempa/Mumbwa, Manyenga/Mwinilunga, Mwinilunga/Jibe, Kaoma/Mubezhi …

Mr Muchima: Kasempa/Kaoma.

Mr Pande: … and Kasempa/Kaoma roads? We need equitable distribution of development. On paper, yes, it is there but, in practice, it is not there. In his Budget Address, the hon. Minister of Finance mentioned the “One Zambia, One nation” which is our motto. I would like to challenge the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting to re-introduce a clip depicting our motto before the main news on our public broadcaster as it was to ensure that they mean it and not just on paper. This Golden Jubilee should help us start afresh as a nation.

Mr Speaker, the lack of equity has a negative effect on growth due to the imbalance in resource distribution and results in marginalisation. We believe that because of this, the North-Western Province is being marginalised. When the hon. Minister stands to respond to what has been said, he should state that some projects in the North-Western Province will truly commence in 2015. We have been promised and all the time we are told that there are feasibility studies being carried out. Could it be that feasibility studies only affect projects in the North-Western Province? We were told that even a simple project like the construction of an air strip in Kasempa will be done in 2016 because it needs a feasibility study. We believe that the North-Western Province is being denied the full benefit of its endowment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: It was not our desire to be north westerners, but it is a right for us to be north westerners …

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: … and we deserve an equal share of the national cake.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Not only on paper, as it has been appearing, but we want projects to be implemented.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Hon. Minister, like many have said, you are a good man and I believe you are. I know that you are listening, therefore, I pray that at the time you will respond to the issues that have been raised, you will include a project assuring the people of the North-Western Province that, particularly, the construction of the Chingola/ Solwezi Road will commence, but not in 2016.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, we expect a change. The people of the North-Western Province feel that they were almost neglected during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era. I would like my colleagues across there (pointing at hon. Government Members) to listen very carefully.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: There is a tendency of saying that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government ruled for twenty years, but let me make it clear that twenty has two sets of ten. The first ten years had members that now belong to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Tell them!

Mr Pande: … are now saying that the MMD Government was destructive.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, they left the MMD Government after it was destroyed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande:  However, the last ten years of the MMD Government were the best ....

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: … because that is when the economy of this country was transformed.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, for those who do not know, there are a number of hon. PF Members who were in the MMD.

Hon. MMD Members: A lot of them.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, for the benefit of those who do not know, Kansanshi Mine in Solwezi is the second one. The first one was destroyed by those people who were in the MMD Government of the first ten years …

Interruptions

Mr Pande: … and are now in the PF Government.

Laughter

Mr Mwale: Tibaziba.

Mr Mbulakulima: Ba Guy Scott.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the Late President Mwanawasa, SC. is the one who revived the present Kansanshi Mine.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Pande: This company was run down into the ground until the Late President Mwanawasa, SC. revived it. Therefore, the people of the North-Western Province are worried because they feel they will be neglected again.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, let me appeal to the PF Government to improve the livelihoods of the people of the North-Western Province because we are celebrating the Golden Jubilee. The PF Government should start a new leaf so that we are united and can be one Zambia, one nation. The Government should not just give lip-service. The North-Western Province should not just be mentioned in the intended infrastructure development programmes, but we must see the implementation. I look forward to supervise some projects and not what we have just been reading.

Mr Speaker, the tragedy that I see is that the PF Government does not know that it does not know how to run the affairs of this country.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to me to add my voice on the debate on the Motion which is on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, I will be very quick to point out the fact that we, in Bangweulu, totally support the Budget for the fiscal year, 1st January to 31st December, 2015 …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: … for the simple reason that it is a modest Budget based on actual assumptions, taking into consideration the structural constraints as well as financial constraints that are being faced in the country. The problem that we have, as Zambians, both at individual as well as national level, is that we want to live beyond our means. Even the demand for the increment in wages arises from that particular habit of trying to live beyond our means.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, if, as a country, we restrict ourselves to the resources that we have, it would be good for the nation.

Mr Speaker, my contribution is also going to be based on some rebuttals against allegations and misinformation that have been waged by our friends on your left-hand side.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, let me talk about defence and security. There has been a barrage of attacks on our Government for increasing our expenditure on defence and security. Leading the attack was my good friend, Hon. Moono, the Member of Parliament for Namwala. I cried for my children and grandchildren yet to come because our colleagues think security is absolute. At no time is security of a country absolute. It is always relative to time and space.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: We have people here from the security wings such as the generals who can actually confirm that. We can be secure today, the situation may not be the same tomorrow.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: People should be reminded of the fact that we are a land-locked country surrounded by eight countries. Today, we are at peace with our neighbours, but tomorrow the situation might not be the same. Therefore, it is very important that we are ready in case of emergency and one thing we should remember is that the procurement of armaments takes a lot of time. You can order armaments today, but they will only be delivered three years later.

Mr Speaker, it was on the Floor of this House where we heard the people of Luapula Province complain, through their hon. Member of Parliament, about the incursions of our friends from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). We called for an establishment of the marine force. This is what we are providing for in the 2015 Budget.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, it is not a secret that some of our aero planes being used by the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) have been grounded because they are prone to accidents. Do our friends on the left hand side expect us not to replace these planes? No. One thing they should remember is that when we say Zambia provides a very good investment climate, we mean that these multi- nationals conduct due diligence examination of our country, and security of their investment is one of them, before they come to Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, our friends should know this. Secondly, I was surprised to hear a seasoned economist like Hon. Hamududu saying Zambia is underdeveloped because of a lack of a Constitution. That is far from the truth. We should not be so simplistic about development because it is much more than the Constitution. Let us be factual and not mislead our people.

Sir, on the other hand, my good friend from Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency was actually laughing as we were saying we are using arrivals to look at the performance of the tourism sector. Yes, we make policies and one thing we should realise is that statistics are a multi-functional display. You can either use raw or fine data. That is why we are using arrivals.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I wanted to talk about is that which has already been raised by other people, which is commending the hon. Minister of Finance for introducing a new tax regime for the mining sector. Let me advise my Government that these capitalists are so crafty. Now, they will be manipulating the production figures and so, it is imperative upon us to institute very stringent measures to monitor their production figures. If possible, let us re-institute the famous Council for Trade and Economic Development (CTED). It was much more aggressive in monitoring the external trade.

Mr Speaker, in addition, let this tax regime be introduced to other sectors of the economy. We have been ripped off for a long time and it is very disappointing and annoying that some institutions within our country are coming to the defence of these mining houses. We know our history as well as that of Africa. These multi-nationals and architects of imperialism have been exploiting our resources for time on end. It was such a wired time of slavery throughout the industrial revolution. All we are asking for is less than a tenth of what they have been exploiting us of. There should not be any issue of negotiating with them. It is either they pay or they leave us alone. It is our copper after all and enough is enough.

Sir, I would also like to commend our hon. Minister of Finance for offloading some of the shares n the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH). This is an opportunity for all of us, even hon. Members of this House, to actually take part in the investment of our economy. Let us have a changed mindset. If we want this country to develop, let us not just invest in little things. We should look at long-term investments. That way, our country is going to move forward.

With those few words, I submit and I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I begin my contribution with the conclusion that the hon. Minister of Finance made that the challenge we have is that the levels of poverty continue to be very high and that if we are going to eat into this high level poverty, we need double digit growth.

Sir, in 2012, the hon. Minister of Finance opened his Budget Address with a similar statement. Between 2012 and 2015, the Budget has technically expanded and doubled. Therefore, the incidence of poverty should be impacted upon. Last week, in the statement he made, he mentioned the issue of structural deformity and imbalances. These are critical issues. What we have seen in our Budget is that the consumption expenditure plus the retirement of interest basically eats up ninety per cent of our Budget. What is left for the development journey is ten per cent plus whatever else that you can raise by way of deficit financing.

Sir, now, with the totality of about fifteen to twenty per cent maximum, you will not be able to get the double digit growth that you want to impact on poverty. What are the options for the Ministry of Finance, particularly in those things that drive growth, which is expenditure in infrastructure such as roads? You either suspend or increase your deficit. Sometime last year, a strategy paper was issued and one of the key policies on job creation was the fact that as part of the financing mechanism, we are going to introduce participation of the private sector under the public-private-partnership (PPP). Of that total financing in that strategy paper of K46 billion, K21 billion was to come under initiatives of the PPP. It was illustrated in the strategy paper that for major highways and international airports, we are going to engage the private sector.

Sir, indeed, the main reason will be that we will, then, be able to lead the necessary fiscal space in order to begin to grow the economy. Now, this particular sound policy remains to be implemented in order for it to make a change. We will not be able to grow this economy solely from what we raise and deficit financing, but there must be other innovative ways such as the PPP.

Mr Speaker, earlier this year, our colleagues from Egypt wanted to expand the Swiss Canal, and so, what they did was issue long term bonds to the citizens of Egypt and they were able to raise US$6 billion for the purpose of expanding.

Therefore, this removed the financial burden from the Egyptian’s Government balance sheet for the project. Our colleagues in Kenya have done the same thing in the power sector. Therefore, I think the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has the capability of raising money for specific projects through bonds and not rely on money from the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, my colleague, the hon. Member for Chama North, talked about the energy sector as part of the structural issues that we must address. Indeed, the hon. Minister of Finance has indicated strongly that he is going to address the structural issues, particularly in the procurement of fuel, as this impacts greatly on the economy. 

Mr Speaker, if you recall, when we last adjusted the fuel pump price, the unit price per barrel of crude oil on the international market was US$145. However, since July, this year, it has been under US$100, but our prices of fuel have remained static. This is one of the structural issues, among others, that we need to address in the energy sector. So, I am glad that the hon. Minister of Finance is going to look at some of these issues in order to drive and grow the economy.

Mr Speaker, we are all in agreement that the monetary policy of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) should continue to target inflation. One of the key tools that BoZ brought about was the policy rate. The policy rate has not had the impact that it was designed to deliver. Presently, the cost of money remains very high and when you add the complex fee structure and collateral arrangements to that, it makes it a lot more difficult for the private sector to access and borrow funds. So, one of the issues that we need to address is how we can make this policy rate by BoZ much more beneficial from an access perspective.

Mr Speaker, an interesting matter is that of some of our regulators such as the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) and the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). These regulators are supposed to facilitate development rather than inhibit it. For example, for you to just procure a fuel tanker and put it on the road, there are almost twenty-seven steps to go through at the ERB, even when that tanker has been declared fit by the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), which is also a regulator. So, the private investors are being overburdened with red tape because after being cleared by RTSA that an instrument is fit, the ERB asks them to undertake a similar exercise. This is a structural problem of co-ordination which, if resolved, can help us to unlock some of our resources. 

Sir, almost a week ago, we came to witness the placement of solar panels at the National Assembly of Zambia. This is a good investment by ZESCO. A similar investment in the private sector, which is probably just 50 per cent larger, still remains stagnant because the investor is being told to undertake a full blown environmental impact assessment. Therefore, when it is ZESCO it is fine because the environmental impact assessment is ceremonial.  As for the private sector, which is going to create jobs, we put in …

Dr Kaingu: Gears.

Mr Mutati: … gears, yes. If ZEMA used discretion in the case of ZESCO, why could it not use similar discretion particularly for the private sector that is going to create much-needed jobs for our people? 

Mr Speaker, I think the public regulators need to facilitate development rather than inhibit it. They need to be sufficiently flexible whilst remaining within sensible parameters of the law so that they encourage and support the private sector to be able to move ahead and start projects.

Mr Speaker, last month, I participated in the budget discussions for the Northern Province. What was interesting in these discussions was that, first of all, we started by reviewing the performance of the budget for the Northern Province, as the basis to plan ahead. A key feature was that recurrent expenditure such as carpets, which was 30 per cent, was on target. When we asked why this was so, we were given reasons such as that funds were not available or procurement processes were still ongoing. 

Mr Speaker, on the other hand, the mid-term review that was distributed to all of us, as hon. Members of Parliament, from the Ministry of Finance indicated that the revenue collections up to June, this year, have exceeded the target by 14 per cent and also that the level of releases of funds is at 95 per cent. So, there must be some structural rigidity whereby the ministry is releasing funds, but the money still remains suspended somewhere and it is not creating a development impact.

Dr Kaingu: That is true.

Mr Mutati: We have seen that in the hon. Minister’s answers to questions on most projects, we are told that funds are not available. For example, in Kalabo, we could not work on toilets at the market because funds are not available. In Kalabo, again, the district hospital did not have a grant for three months because the funds are not available, and yet the Ministry of Finance, in its report, has released 95 per cent of the funds for development. So, there must be something that is not working in terms of the transmission of funds so that they can create a development impact. 

Mr Speaker, it is not an issue of the lack of resources, but our own capabilities to be able to spend the money. As it was revealed at the budget discussion, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock received over US$130 million World Bank funds, but officials at the ministry are still staring at the funds, figuring out modalities and processes instead of moving ahead to try to deliver development.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Therefore, we must be able to move from the habit of staring at resources and put these funds on the ground. 

Mr Speaker, it is pleasing that finally, the Budget Bill is going to be tabled before this House. This will enhance accountability and participation, particularly that of hon. Members of Parliament, in the whole budget process. As things are at the moment, it is more of an issue of compliance and a routine process. So, hopefully, once this is done, we shall begin to have meaningful Budgets. 

Sir, I would like to add that one of the greatest challenges that we have is strengthening financial regulations and carrying out the necessary amendments to the Finance Act. If you recall, in the last Auditor-General’s report, almost K3.4 billion was reported as wasted expenditure. I think it is time that we brought the necessary amendments to the Finance Act and strengthened financial regulations. 

The other day, I was reading a report, by the Zambia Institute of Policy Analysis and Research (ZIPAR), which indicated that there is potential to collect a lot more money from Pay-as-You Earn (PAYE). The figure it put on was 6.7 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP). That can, in part, answer to some of the challenges that the hon. Minister of Finance is facing. 

So, is a double digit possible? I say, yes, hon. Minister of Finance. If we are able to deal with some of these structural issues that you made reference to and some of the imbalances, it is possible. It is a question of the will and the determination to be able to do it if we minimise our ability to invest in words, invest in promises and to invest in visions.

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, let me, on behalf of the people of Kabwata Constituency, join the others in commiserating with the Government and the people of Zambia and, indeed, the people of Gwembe on the sad demise of the children whose boat capsized on Lake Kariba while they were going on a very important assignment, to celebrate their country’s Golden Jubilee. They died as heroes and heroines, who attached great importance to the fact that this country has attained fifty years of political independence and fifty years of self-determination. How I wish all of us in this House were able to emulate those young people.

Secondly, Sir, let me congratulate all the people of Zambia for honouring the legacy of Zambia by taking part in the celebration of Zambia’s Golden Jubilee.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I want to commend them, Sir, for having this event and commemorating it incident-free and accident-free, except for that one on Lake Kariba. Whereas others were hoping that there would be skirmishes, there would be fights and riots, the Zambian people stood fast …

Mr Ng’onga: And black materials.

Mr Lubinda: … and were determined to celebrate their country’s jubilee.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: On this score, Sir, let me also sympathise with those of my Zambian compatriots who chose to shun the official events. Nonetheless, I want to take cognisance of the fact that some of them where seen celebrating the jubilee in their own style. Having said this, I want to say to the hon. Minister of Finance that, sitting in this House ever since he passed the Budget, I have heard some hard words being used against the hon. Minister, his Budget and against the policies in his Budget.

Some have gone as far as calling his Budget rubbish.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, others outside this House, I want to be heard clearly, others outside this House, have gone to the extent of using harsh words against the persona of the hon. Minister of Finance, on matters of state affairs. This is, of course, very sad. However, I am consoled by my knowledge of the fact that the hon. Minister of Finance is a person whose bones may be broken by stones, sticks and pangas, but I know that he is a very resolved man that words, and words alone, will not hurt him …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … from performing his State function of being hon. Minister of Finance. I want to commend him for standing firm and maintaining his cool-headedness and having a high level of humility. I would like, therefore, to commend him for that and also for delivering a Budget that has inspired and generated a lot of debate.

Sir, reading from the hon. Minister’s speech and realising that the global economy is only recovering and the regional economy is growing at such a slow rate of 5.1 per cent, and yet, he and his Government have managed to grow the Zambian economy at the rate of 6.5 per cent and are projecting 7 per cent growth in 2015, is no mean achievement ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and he ought to be commended for that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, unless one chooses not follow the global trends and wishes to ignore the performance of our economy in the past, one only has to commend the hon. Minister and his Government for another great achievement.

Sir, over the years, domestic revenue, as part of our Budget, has always been very decimal. The hon. Minister has managed to raise this from 16.5 per cent in 2013 to 18.5 per cent for next year. This is no mean achievement. What that means is that more of Zambia’s GDP will go to the people because the only way that the GDP growth can affect the people, is through Government revenue. That is exactly what the hon. Minister is doing. One only anticipates that going forward, we shall be hearing that domestic revenue as part of GDP shall reach that magic figure of 20 per cent. I have no doubt that in the next one or two years, at the rate at which we are going, we shall hit that target.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I would like to encourage the hon. Minister to be focused and not to be deterred.

Having said this about the general economy, Sir, let me move to a sector that the hon. Minister spoke about passionately, this is the tourism sector. I listened to very eloquent debates by Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo and Hon. Catherine Namugala on this matter. I have to borrow the words by which Hon. Mutati ended with. The words he said about learning to change, from talking the talk, to walking the talk. 

Sir, I am sure that I am paraphrasing what my colleague said but, in essence, that was the gist of his statement. It is a well-known fact that the global tourism sector employs more than 6 per cent of the global workforce. It also contributes more than 5 per cent to the global GDP. In Zambia, I am delighted to learn that our tourism arrivals will increase by not less than 5.2 per cent by the end of this year. That is a great achievement. 

Sir, Zambia has more than 7,000 heritage and historic sites. It has ninety national parks and more than thirty Waterfalls. It has one of the best climates in the world.

Dr Kaingu: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: It has some of the most wonderful people. Wherever you go, the one asset that people appreciate about Zambia, before anything else, before copper, its waterfalls and its beautiful soils, are the people. Sir, what has been lacking over the years, is what Hon. Mutati talked about, the lack of desire to translate our talk in to walk. We have been talking about Zambia’s tourism potential for years without putting any emphasis on it. 

On this score, Sir, I would like to commend the hon. Minister because he has demonstrated that for him, the tourism sector, shall not be talk business, it shall be walking business. How has he done that? As all of us in this House will see, he has increased the allocation to the Ministry of Tourism and Arts by more than 300 per cent, from K98.7 million to K217.7 million. That is an exponential increase which demonstrates that, now, the economy is being managed by people who shall not only talk, but walk the talk. 

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]
Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was reflecting on the fact that finally, we have a Government which is not only willing to talk the tourism talk, but walk it.

 Sir, I also want to illustrate the fact that the ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs has a very significant role to play in tourism.

Mr Speaker, I can see that a gentleman who is used to being thrown out of the House is pointing fingers at me, but I will ignore him and continue. The Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, being responsible for the maintenance of our heritage and culture, also has an important role to play in developing ethno tourism. For this reason, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs to put more effort in the development of museums in Zambia. The chief’s palaces that we were talking about earlier this afternoon are also an important tourism facet, if they are properly developed and managed.

Mr Speaker, in many countries, cemeteries are also tourism cites. I want to tell the House that realising this, the people of Kabwata have decided that the abandoned cemetery at Chilenje shall be developed into a tourism site. Once that is done, I shall be inviting my good friend, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, to join me in seeing it ...

Mr Muntanga: Me?

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … because he doubted by shaking his head vigorously when I said that cemeteries are an important tourism facet.

Sir, another way that this Government has shown its determination to grow the tourism sector is by investing in road infrastructure. We know that we have heritage and tourism sites, but the trouble is that they are few and far apart and accessibility is difficult. 

Sir, those of us who had the privilege of traversing this country by air, road and water with the current President when he was still campaigning know the passion he has to open up this country, especially for the sake of tourism. I recall him pointing down from an aero plane and saying that down there, I want that road to be worked on to open up tourism in Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: This is exactly what he has done. The opening up of the Chiawa Road is certainly enhancing accessibility to tourism sites in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the Itezhi-tezhi Road, which passes through the Kafue National Park, is another road that is of importance to the tourism sector. Who can doubt the determination by this Government to increase the contribution of the tourism sector to the growth of the gross domestic product (GDP)? Who can doubt the fact that this Government is determined to create jobs through tourism? As many people know, for every twelve tourists that come to any country, a permanent job is created in the tourism sector. So, it is a good sign that this country knows where its mouth is and is putting money where it is.

Sir, I would also like to commend the hon. Minister for the move he has taken with regard to customs duty on aviation fuel. It is only my duty to call upon investors, people with the money, to take advantage of this and invest in local flights to open up our country even more. 

Sir, I would like to appeal to the two hon. Ministers responsible for this important sector to go ahead and increase their rate of rehabilitation of cultural centres. The Kabwata Cultural Village is a case in point. A lot of tourists come to Zambia for conferences and business, but during the evenings, they have nothing to do except to sit in their rooms. No tourists come to Zambia for only day time tourism. They also would like to see evening tourism. With the opening up of cultural centers such as the Kabwata Cultural Village, you shall be providing better and more tourism facilities for the people closer to their hotels and, we, in Kabwata, are ready to partner with the ministry in doing that.

Having spoken about roads, I want to commend the Government for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project and the L400 km Road Project. The people of Kabwata are extremely proud that two roads in Kabwata shall become dual carriage ways very soon, complete with state-of-the- art road furniture. We are proud of that. 

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: However, we also appeal to the hon. Minister responsible for this sector to realise that extending the Chilimbulu and Burma roads alone shall not reduce traffic congestion in Lusaka. We, therefore, appeal to the ministry to continue to invest in opening up ring roads such as the ones that are being worked on in Kabwata Constituency. We would like all those ring roads to be worked on as quickly as possible. 

However, beyond that, Sir, there are other areas which require ring roads such as connecting Chelstone to the Great North Road somewhere in Chisamba and connecting Lilayi or Makeni to Mumbwa along the Mumbwa Road and connecting Mumbwa Road to the Great North Road so that we can divert traffic from passing through the central business district because that cost of traffic congestion is enormous. 

Mr Speaker, I am sure that if transport economists were to do a study, they would realise that this economy is losing a lot of money because of those unnecessary traffic congestions. I have no doubt that my dear colleagues responsible for this sector will look into this matter and speedily put the money where it matters the most.

Sir, let me comment briefly on another area that the hon. Minister spoke about. This is the important sector of agriculture. It is good to maintain legacy, but it is also good to analyse the legacy and see whether it is worth the while. I want to say that the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) might have made sense when it started, but I am not sure whether it is making sense any more. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Tourism and Cabinet to reflect a bit more on the FISP. This has now become a social political programme and not an economic one. This being the case, it might be necessary to relocate the FISP to a social ministry …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … so as to free the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to concentrate on the economics of agriculture so that the people in agriculture are made to realise that agriculture is a business at individual, household and national level. All these subsidies must be channeled as social safety nets by the right ministry.

Mr Speaker, in addition, I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to ensure that in the next fiscal year, more money is channeled towards growth drivers in agriculture such as expanding and extending the depth of extension services.

I am delighted to hear that the Government will employ 500 extension officers in the fiscal year, 2015. Nonetheless, 500 is a very small number. I am aware of the fact that this country has one extension officer for probably 10,000 farmers. That is a very bad ratio. One extension officer cannot possibly provide good quality extension services to so many farmers. It is time for us to start investing in research and development and extension services. In so saying, I would like to remind the hon. Minister for Agriculture and Livestock that time has come for him and his ministry to visit these institutions of training in agriculture. 

Mr Speaker, the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) is in a very dilapidated state. Our colleagues neglected that institution. Ever since it was built in 1965, there has been no investment worth talking about at the NRDC. That is extremely sad, especially for people who came up with the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). They did not give respect whatsoever to institutions that are supposed to train extension officers who should, in turn, train farmers who are being given subsidised fertiliser and subsidised maize seed.

Professor Luo: Apopene apo kokolapo.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I hope that next year, we shall see an increased allocation to the rehabilitation of training institutions in agriculture.

Mr Speaker, let me end by urging the Government to be a bit more secretive and tightly hold on to its documents. It is sad to read that a Government document, such as the Budget, could find its way into editorial rooms of some newspapers before the hon. Minister presented it to this House. This is a very damaging development and I would like to appeal to all of us on both sides of the House to ensure that we maintain secrecy on matters of national importance. I urge all those who have long fingers and those who like getting and leaking State secrets to stop it. 

With these few words, I would like to end by commending the hon. Minister for this very well-thought through Budget and I call upon the whole House to support this very important Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art may take the Floor.

Mr Mucheleka: Finshi walelia?

Mr Evans: Aah tiye uko.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr Evans): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, before I start my debate, let me just pass my heartfelt condolences to the families of those who lost their beloved ones on Lake Kariba. That was a very sad development indeed.

Mr Speaker, allow me to contribute to the Motion on the 2015 Budget Speech delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance, with specific emphasis on infrastructure development as a means of promoting tourism development and the need for enhancing our tourism marketing efforts in order to increase tourist arrivals.

Mr Speaker, I think that too many a time we have debated in this honourable House, over …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us consult less loudly so that some of us who are interested in the proceeding can follow the contribution by the hon. Deputy Minister.

 You may continues, hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Evans: … what the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has undertaken in order to improve the tourism sector. Many a time, our colleagues have denied this and said that they have not seen these developments that we are talking about, as the PF Government. When we talk about infrastructure development, we talk about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, the construction of the Bottom Road and the Nico Road. Our colleagues, however, say that there is no Bottom Road being constructed. I think that by saying that, these hon. Members of Parliament are just de-campaigning themselves because, as we debate on the Floor of this House, there are many investors out there listening to our debates. If they say that there are no roads being built in their areas, it means that these so-called investors will lose hope and will not go to their areas to invest …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Evans: … because they have de-campaigned themselves.

Mr Speaker, I wish to commend the hon. Minister of Finance for prioritising infrastructure development in the 2015 Budget in order to catalyse the development of tourism. As the House may be aware, Zambia is well endowed with tourism assets spread across the country that are still remain untapped due to poor accessibility and inadequate infrastructure development such as roads, airports, airstrips, power and water supply, and Information Communication Technology (ICT) networks which are necessary to attract investment to develop tourism. This has resulted in limited tourism offerings with tourism mainly being concentrated in Livingstone, South Lwangwa, Lower Zambezi and Kafue national parks. The allocation towards infrastructure development for tourism will, therefore, ensure that areas with tourism potential, particularly in the Northern Circuit, are opened for tourism development.

Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with Hon. Namugala on the need for tourists to spend more time in the country in order for us to increase on our revenue collection. Indeed, this is the reason the PF Government is opening up the Northern Circuit in order for us to see investors going there to build some hotels and create employment for our people.

Mr Speaker, tourism is one of the fastest growing industries globally, with world tourism receipts hitting US$1 trillion in 2010, with Southern Africa receiving only 1.7 per cent of these receipts. In order for Zambia to derive maximum benefits from investment in tourism infrastructure, there is a need to increase its market share of international tourists through increased marketing in major tourism source markets as well as emerging tourist markets. The country’s marketing efforts are bearing positive results as evidenced by increased arrivals, particularly that of leisure tourists, that has continued to grow at an average rate of 13 per cent per annum since 2011. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to use this opportunity to clarify the misconception regarding the credibility of international tourist arrival statistics that was raised by an hon. Member of the House during the debate on the Budget Speech. Our 2013 international tourism arrivals of 914,576 were being disputed as being inaccurate on account that they include cross-border traders who visit our country for trading purposes and not for holiday and leisure. I wish to inform the House that Zambia and the rest of the world use a standard methodology for collecting tourism statistics provided by the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO).  According to the UNWTO definition, a tourist is a person who travels to and stays in places outside their usual environment for more than twenty-four hours and not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes not related to the exercise of an activity remunerated from within the place visited. 

Mr Speaker, going by the definition, the international tourist arrivals recorded in 2013 were 914,576 compared to 859,088 in 2012, representing an increase of 6.5 per cent. Our tourist arrival figures are further broken down by purpose of visit which include, holiday and leisure, business, conferences, studying, visiting friends and relatives and others. From the 914,576 international tourist arrivals, the majority of 479,892 visitors, representing 52.5 per cent, came for business while 251,824 representing 27.5 per cent visited for holiday or leisure.
 
Mr Speaker, the misconception that a tourist is only one who visits for holiday and leisure is what creates doubt in the authenticity of our statistics. As the figures show, there are more visitors that come for business than holiday and leisure. Traditionally, Zambia’s tourism was mainly nature-based. The tourism landscape calls for development of a multi-pronged tourism development strategy to leverage tourism segments with greater potential such as conferencing. 

Mr Speaker, notwithstanding the need for tourism diversification, the growing of holiday/ leisure segments will remain one of our areas of focus so that the country can tap into the fastest growing industries in the world. For us to capture a bigger market share of international tourists, we need to increase our tourism marketing budget. Zambia competes in the same market with other well-financed destinations that offer a comparable tourism product. Therefore, the low marketing by Zambia, relative to our competitors in the sub-region, may result in destination substitution. 

Mr Speaker, there is a link between levels of marketing expenditure and tourist arrivals and earnings. For example, South Africa’s marketing budget in 2013 was US$180 million and tourist arrivals in that year reached 9.6 million. Kenya’s marketing budget in the same period was US$150 million and recorded 1.1 million visitors. Tanzania’s marketing budget in 2012 was US$18 million and the country recorded over 1 million visitors. Zimbabwe’s marketing budget in 2012 was US$13 million and the country recorded 1.7 million visitors. Zambia’s marketing budget was US$2 million and recorded 914,476 visitors. 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I would like to support the Budget. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Any further debate?

No indication.
The Deputy Chairperson: It is time for the Government to start responding.

No indication.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, you may adjourn.

_____ 

ADJOURNMENT 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to. 

The House adjourned at 1953 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 29th October, 2014.