Friday, 22nd April, 2016

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that in the absence of the Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. Y. D. Mukanga, who is currently Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and who has been assigned to other equally important Government business, the Minister of Justice, Hon. Dr Ngosa Simbyakula, S.C., has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Friday, 22nd April, 2016 until further notice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Justice and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 26th April, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

(a)    Committee on Delegated Legislation; and

(b)    Committee on Agriculture.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 27th April, 2016, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. After that, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

(a)    Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services; and

(b)    Committee on Agriculture on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Sustainable Management of Fish Resources in Natural Waters. 

Sir, the House will then consider the second reading stage of the following Bills:

(a)    The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2016;

(b)    The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill, 2016;

(c)    The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendement) Bill, 2016;

(d)    The Court of Appeal Bill, 2016;

(e)    The Constitutional Court Bill, 2016; and 

(f)    The Superior Courts Number of Judges Bill, 2016.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 28th April, 2016, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

(a)    Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs; and

(b)    Committee on Government Assurances.

Sir, the House will, then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Public Protector Bill, 2016.

Sir, on Friday, 29th April, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate the Motion to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

(a)    Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs; and

(b)     Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour.

The House will then deal with any business that may be outstanding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CHINYUNYU YOUTH RESOURCE CENTRE

405. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to rehabilitate the infrastructure and revive activities at Chinyunyu Youth Resource Centre in Rufunsa District;

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(c)    if there were no such plans, why.

The Deputy Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, it is the Government’s policy to construct, at least, one modern youth resource centre in each district. Further, it is also the Government’s policy to upgrade all existing youth resource centres into modern youth resource centres. As for Rufunsa District, the Government commenced the upgrading of Chiyota Youth Resource Centre in 2012 and the project is near completion.

Sir, the Government will rehabilitate Chinyunyu Youth Resource Centre in Rufunsa subject to availability of funds. Therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Deputy Minister is aware that Rufunsa is now a district. As a result of that, there is pressure over land in the area. Almost everyone is going to look for land in that district. In addition, the sub-centre is situated in a prime area. Thus, I am worried about the land where the centre is located being encroached upon. Is it possible for the ministry to put up beacons on this piece of land so that people do not encroach upon it?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member’s concern. I wish to assure him that we have taken note of it and so, we will send people to go and secure the land.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has talked about some districts where resource centres have been constructed. I note that Chadiza District is not one of the districts where a youth resource centre is being constructed. How many districts have been covered in this initiative and when will Chadiza be considered?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, off-the-cuff, I think we have so far covered nineteen districts in the whole country. Our plan is that by 2022, all the districts in Zambia will have a modern youth resource centre.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ELECTRIFICATION OF MILENGE DISTRICT

406. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    what the progress on the electrification of Milenge District was;

(b)    whether the project was on schedule;

(c)    if it was not on schedule, why; and

(d)    what the new completion date was.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), is currently implementing Phase III of the Milenge Electrification Project, which commenced in February, 2016 and involves the construction of 50 km of a 33 kV overhead line. The completion of Phase III will bring the total distance covered to 107 km, leaving a balance of 68 km to reach Milenge District headquarters.

Sir, the contractor is on site and works are on schedule. The contractor is scheduled to complete the works by September, 2016, which is under Phase III. The electrification of Milenge District might be completed in 2017.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I have discussed this matter with the hon. Minister even outside this House and we have both expressed disappointment with the pace of works. The project started from Samfya, Musaila going to Milenge and the stretch is about 150 km. So far, only less than 30 km has been worked on through the putting up of poles. The hon. Deputy Minister has said that Phase III will be completed by September, 2016, which means we are through with Phases I and II. When will electricity really reach Milenge for the people in the district to see light? I am not talking about light at the end of the tunnel, but the actual light. Further, is the hon. Deputy Minister impressed with the contractor’s performance?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, maybe, I should take you through what we have done so far on that power line. The project of connecting Milenge to the national electricity grid is being undertaken in phases. This is due to the huge cost of the project estimated at K46 million. Phase I involved the construction of a 30 km long 33 kV power line from Musaila Junction to Musaba Primary School in Samfya District. The 33 kV power line was constructed parallel to the Pensulo/Samfya/Tuta Road. Phase I was completed and switched on in 2014. Three schools, namely Mulisha, Nkungu and Musaba, all located on the first phase line have been connected to the electricity grid. The total cost of implementing Phase I was K6.7 million.

Sir, Phase II of the electrification project for Milenge District was an extension of Phase I. The works involved the construction of an additional 27 km of the line at a cost of K7 million. Two primary schools, namely Mungulube and Kafwanka, and a secondary school, as well as two rural health centres, are expected to be connected once REA completes the internal wiring of the public facilities. The authority has completed the procurement of the materials for this exercise and the internal wiring is going to commence in the shortest possible time when all logistics are put in place. 

Mr Speaker, Phase III involves the construction of 50 km …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Deputy Minister, sorry, I have to intervene. You are re-reading a statement. The questions from the hon. Member are crispy. Firstly, when will light be seen in Milenge? Secondly, are you impressed with the performance of the contractor? Those are the two questions.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I wanted him to understand clearly what was taking place. Yes, we are impressed with the performance of the contractor, whose name is Yengatech Enterprises Ltd. This is a very good contractor and by 2017, the people in Milenge will see light.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Those are the answers he was looking for.

Mr Mbulakulima indicated assent.

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BILLS

FIRST READING

THE IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION (Amendment) BILL, 2016

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs) (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Immigration and Deportation (Amendment) Bill, 2016. The object of this Bill is to amend the Immigration and Deportation Act, 2010 so as to provide for:

(a)    the Zambia Police Service Commission as the appointing authority for immigration officers;

(b)    align the definition of “child” with that of the Constitution; and

(c)    matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 3rd May, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE HIGH COURT (Amendment) BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the High Court (Amendment) Bill, 2016. The object of this Bill is to amend the High Court Act so as to provide for:

(a)    the divisions of the High Court; and

(b)    matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 29th April, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

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MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LANDS, ENVIRONMENT AND TOURISM FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Mr Mwewa (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 7th April, 2016.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, as days draw near to the end of our life in this august House, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the manner you have presided over the Business of this House. Despite the fights that we saw in this House, you were calm and collected …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, please, concentrate on your report.

Mr Mwewa: Sir, despite their different affiliations, the hon. Members of your Committee stood for one purpose, which was to see the economic and social prosperity of this nation. I attribute this to the way our Chairperson, Hon. Muntanga, handled matters. Allow me to thank him for that.

Mr Speaker, in line with its terms of reference as set out in the Standing Orders, your Committee undertook a study on access to land for women in Zambia.

Sir, your Committee’s findings are highlighted in your Committee’s report. It is my sincere hope that hon. Members of Parliament have taken time to read the report. I will, therefore, only highlight some of the salient issues arising from the study.

As I begin my speech, Mr Speaker, I wish to point out that your Committee was motivated to probe the subject of women’s access to land because women’s empowerment is essential in promoting equality between women and men which is a precondition for sustainable development and pro-poor growth. Your Committee realises that women’s economic empowerment can be achieved through equal access and control over resources including land and through the elimination of structural gender inequalities.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that Zambia has no special legal provisions that guide women’s access to land because the law relating to land is gender neutral. A number of pieces of legislation guide land administration in the country including, but not limited to, the Constitution, the Lands Act, Chapter 184; and the Local Government Act, Chapter 281 of the Laws of Zambia. None of these laws has any provisions that expressly states how land should be allocated to either men or women.

Similarly, Sir, your Committee was informed that customary law does not discriminate against either men or women when it comes to the allocation of land. Stakeholders informed your Committee that traditional leaders do not have any problem with allocating land to women. In spite of the above, there is an imbalance in the ownership of land between men and women. A number of reasons were given for this state of affairs and I will point them out.

Sir, while the law does not discriminate on gender lines, its implementation is blind to the historical gender disparities which exist in the country which make it challenging for women to access land. It is, therefore, imperative that those charged with the responsibility of enforcing the law are alive to the special circumstances of women and ensure that there is the promotion of gender equity and equality in all development processes, including the allocation of land. Your Committee, in this regard, calls for affirmative action in the implementation of the laws relating to the allocation of land.

Sir, as I have stated, the customary land tenure system also does not explicitly discriminate against women. It is, however, common under customary law that the application of land to women is dependent on the approval of their husbands or male relatives. The fact that land is often issued without any written documentation from traditional leaders tends to have a negative effect on women, especially when land disputes arise. It is, therefore, of utmost importance that all land transactions are documented. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government in consultation with traditional leaders to devise a system of offering some kind of documentation that will serve as proof of ownership for customary land.

Sir, as a country is in the process of constitutional reforms, particularly with regard to the Bill of Rights, there is a need to consider the application of Article 23 of the Constitution on women’s access to land. Stakeholders informed your Committee that while the Article prohibits discrimination, it has a derogation clause which allows the application for customary law. This derogation clause robs the discrimination provision of its efficacy because most customary systems are patriarchal and, therefore, follow practices that discriminate against women.

Mr Speaker, allow me to point out the fact that Zambia does not have an explicit Land Policy. Your Committee takes cognisance of the fact that a Land Policy was drafted in 2006, but remains in draft form to date. An insight into some of the aims of the Draft Land Policy show that it was a step in the right direction because it was supposed to enhance the security of tenure; improve access to credit; facilitate land reform; ensure collection of real property taxes; prevent land speculation, disputes and conflicts; and ensure equitable access to land for the poor, minority groups and women. 

Your Committee, Mr Speaker, therefore, wonders why this draft continues to gather dust on the shelves of the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. It is your Committee’s recommendation that the policy should be finalised in the shortest possible time because the equitable access to land by all Zambians cannot be realised in the absence of a good Land Policy.

Allow me, Sir, to state that it is pleasing to your Committee that the revised National Gender Policy of 2014 provides that 50 per cent of all available land should be allocated to women and the remaining 50 per cent should be competed for by both men and women. This is the kind of affirmative action that is required in order to uplift the status of women.

Sir, for close to seven decades, no land audit has been carried out in Zambia. The country continues to rely on the statistics of the 1947 land audit. This state of affairs is without doubt anomalous. Your Committee urges the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to expedite the processes of completing the land audit, as the information that will be gathered from it will be extremely crucial to land administration in the country.

Mr Speaker, after having carefully considered the submissions made by various stakeholders, your Committee came to a conclusion that the law is conducive for women to access land. However, it appears that there are low levels of knowledge among women on the existing land laws and policies on their right to own land. Your Committee recommends that women should be mobilised and enlightened as regards to their rights. It is the Government’s responsibility to ensure that there are ongoing programmes to sensitise women, communities, community leaders and traditional leaders on the land rights of women in Zambia.

As I end, Mr Speaker, I wish to state that land is an important asset for national development. Therefore, laws alone are not enough to secure women’s access to land. The effectiveness of laws depends on public awareness about them and the ability to invoke them. It is also predicated on the extent to which cultural norms and traditions recognise the role of women in the development process.

In conclusion, Sir, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee is also indebted to the stakeholders who appeared before it for their co-operation and input into the deliberations.

Lastly, Sir, I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it during the session.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Miti: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to second the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly which has been ably moved by the Acting Chairperson of the Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion urging the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 7th April, 2016.

Sir, in seconding the Motion, allow me to start by thanking the honourable Acting Chairperson of your Committee for having ably moved it. Allow me to thank him also for the leadership and guidance he provided to your Committee throughout its deliberations. 

Mr Speaker, I wish to echo the sentiments of the acting Chairperson who stated that women’s empowerment is an important precondition to sustainable development and pro-poor growth. It is, therefore, your Committee’s sincere hope that the recommendations that it has made will receive the Executive’s necessary action because land is one of the most vital ingredients for national development.

Sir, an issue that came to your Committee’s attention during deliberations with stakeholders is that there is no proper documentation given to land owners by traditional leaders when they allocate customary land. Your Committee was informed that whenever land disputes arise, especially between men and women, women, often times, find themselves losing ownership of the land as they have no supporting documentation to prove their ownership. As a way of minimising land disputes, it is your Committee’s considered view that all land transactions should be documented. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government, in consultation with traditional leaders, to devise a system of offering some kind of documentation that will serve as proof of ownership for customary land.

Mr Speaker, as I have already pointed out, land is one of the most important ingredients for national development. Therefore, it is important that those charged with the responsibility of implementing laws and policies that relate to land do so with the utmost fairness and impartiality so that both men and women as partners in development can have equal access to this vital resource.

Mr Speaker, your Committee has no doubt that the Government is committed to improving the management of the land sector so as to foster national development. Your Committee is, therefore, confident that the Government will address the concerns that have been highlighted in your Committee’s report. 

Sir, allow me, on behalf of your Committee, to end by expressing my gratitude to you for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee is also grateful to the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation and input into the deliberations. I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to the Committee during the session.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank the mover and seconder of the Motion on this wonderful report which is supporting the ownership of land by our women in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, land is very important to human settlement not only in Zambia, but the world over. The report has hinted on impartiality and equal access to land.

 Sir, land matters in Zambia are in a shameful state. We need to audit our land wholly in order to know who owns which piece of land in Zambia. You will discover that much of the land in urban areas is owned by foreigners due to the weak systems that tend to favour those with money as opposed to those who are poor. I do not know where the land will come from in order for our ladies to have 50 per cent of it because most of the viable land which we are talking about in urban and peri-urban areas is all taken.  

Mr Speaker, we should learn from other countries. Is land given anyhow to anybody? Why should Zambia be so liberal with everything and open up anyhow? The Draft Land Policy which has been talked about in the report should be enhanced so that we take stock and bend it to favour Zambians, whatever the gender. A man owns land on behalf of his children and his wife. The women who are not privileged to have a man or children should also have equal access to land. Do we all stand a chance when we go to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and the councils? There is totally no chance. You can push your application to the council after you have traced a piece of land only to find it  given to a foreigner the next day. This means that our policies are very weak.

Mr Speaker, even though we are talking about giving 50 per cent of land to women, especially in towns where land has value, it is totally impossible for that to be done. We have to change our policies. Land should belong to Zambians. Foreigners should only be leased or rented as opposed to their being given land because they have money. Some of this money they use is dirty money which they come to clean up here when the real owners of the land are suffering because they are poor. The Zambians have continued staying in shanty compounds when much bigger and viable land is given to foreigners.

Mr Speaker, there is plenty of land in the rural parts of the country, like where I come from. Even when we advertise as a council, we do not see anybody applying for land because there are no incentives. The Government should have a deliberate intention of offering incentives in rural parts so that people can find rural parts attractive and can start investing there.

Mr Speaker, let people not be mistaken that nobody can come to Ikeleng’i. Ikeleng’i borders Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). You know that border areas would have been very attractive to investors if we had good policies. There is no more land in Lusaka, Kafue or Kabwe. Why is this so? It is because there is an attachment of high value to the land in towns more than in rural parts. 

Mr Speaker, whenever a new Government is formed, the power to give out pieces of land is given to its cadres. This idea that the first qualification to getting land is being a cadre should be stopped. This land belongs to every Zambian. The first qualification should be that one is Zambian. However, when you go to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection as early as 0700 hours in the morning, you will find out that most of the people on the queues are cadres. They are the same cadres that trouble innocent people every day. We should criminalise this behaviour. Let people access land because they qualify and not because they are cadres.  The giving of land to cadres is what is causing the artificial shortage of land. There should be a well-designed route for acquiring land. Councils do not reply to applications for land. You may be lucky to get an answer from a council in a rural area. In towns, it is totally impossible to get an answer from a council. I have been living in Lusaka since 1973 and have pushed in many applications for land to the Lusaka City Council (LCC) and have not received not even one reply. A mall has since been built in the area I wanted to acquire a piece of land from. How do the people who get the land apply? What system do they use? These are issues which we should address. We are enemies of ourselves in Zambia. People think that they will occupy their offices forever to the point that they do not think about tomorrow. White people plan for tomorrow. We should also learn to plan for our children and grandchildren. If we continue acting in a selfish manner, we will kill the future of our children. Tomorrow, some of you in the Government will be walking with a stick and nobody will look at you because you never prepared the ground properly. When you are in Government offices, set up good landmarks which people will remember you for. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government replaced the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and should have come into power with good policies. Unfortunately, those in the PF seem to be behaving in a worse manner than their predecessors. We cannot change the situation with this behaviour. The Government should introduce incentives for people to acquire land. This land audit is real and should benefit everyone in this country. 

Mr Speaker, Zambia is a very beautiful country. It has a lot of land, but the problem is that our policies are weak. When people are in the Opposition, they look at the log that is in the eyes of the people on the other side all the time. However, the moment those in the Opposition come to power, they change and begin to behave exactly the same way as those who were part of the previous Government. Land is critical. The population is increasing and land is becoming limited. If we are not careful, we shall not have any space left for our people. Let us develop good land policies that will benefit Zambia and the future. Let us not favour foreigners. Those khaki envelops we get from foreigners who want to acquire land will not help this country develop. 

Mr Speaker, in supporting this Motion which is very critical, I want to urge the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Ministry of Local Government and Housing and Ministry of Justice to formulate policies which will benefit Zambians and not foreigners and cadres alone. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members who are following the debate, please let us respond to the report. 

Hon. Member for Mpongwe, you may take the Floor. 

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the Acting Chairperson of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism for having ably moved the Motion and the seconder for seconding it. 

Mr Speaker, the topical issue at hand is very important. I listened very carefully when someone mentioned that the policies and laws that we have in this country are not discriminatory and that land can be acquired by either sex. We, the Zambians, have not yet appreciated the value of land and as such, very few people, both men and women, have taken keen interest to acquire land. 

Mr Speaker, I heard the Acting Chairperson mention that the last land audit to determine who owned land was done in 1947. I do not know who was there at that time, amongst the people who are sitting in this House. When you look at how land was being acquired that time, when the people who were running this country did that land audit, you will notice that none of the Zambians had land on title, other than those who acquired land through village ownership. Most of this land was owned by the white people and even amongst themselves, very few were women. All the land from Livingstone to Chililabombwe, along the line of rail, was owned by the white farmers, mostly males. Why is it that even that time when we had white people, only white men were acquiring land? Why is it that most of the village headmen were men? Very few were women. I think that our different cultures and traditions have always hampered the possibility of women owning land. Even in our homes, you will find that all the property is in the name of the men. When people find that property is registered in the name of a woman, they say “Balimulyishishe kolyo kolyo” meaning that some juju must have been used on the man such that he is only answerable to a woman ...

Interruptions 

Mr Namulambe: ... hence, he cannot have his property registered in his name. Our traditions have made it difficult for women to own land. Even when it comes to polygamy, it is only a man who can marry two or more wives, but a woman cannot marry more than one husband. If a woman did the same thing, there would be talk all over. There are certain churches where they say that a woman should not stand in front of men, yet some of these women read the Bible and can even preach better than men. So, we need to change certain mindsets. Only when people begin to appreciate the value of land are they going to start getting interested in acquiring land. When the Acting Chairperson mentioned that there is no law in Zambia which discriminates any sex from acquiring land, that not only gave me comfort, but also led me to think that land is mostly owned by men because women have not yet appreciated its value.

Mr Speaker, I followed the debate by the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i. I do not have a quarrel with what he said, provided that the land is being put to proper use such that its economic value adds to the gross domestic product (GDP) of the country. However, you will find that foreigners who own these parcels of land in this country approach banks for loans using the title deeds on the ninety-nine-year lease as collateral. The money that is acquired from these banks is used elsewhere and not on the land they have obtained. 

Mr Speaker, I come from Mpongwe, which is a farming community. Most women who own land in Mpongwe are doing far better than the men. The difficulty that they sometimes have is access to capital. In an effort to try to entice more women who seriously wish to utilise land, the Government should deliberately give incentives in the form of capital. This way, we will encourage the womenfolk to acquire land. 

Above all, Sir, if a woman is independent, she is free from abuse by the man in a home. If a woman has capital and she is able to stand on her own feet and do her own work, a man will not abuse her in any way because of her independence. The Government, through various incentives such as the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund and the Women Economic Empowerment Fund, under the Ministry of Gender, should have a number of projects with some bias towards women. If there is a portion of funds allocated for those who want to develop their land, we would see a good number of women trying to acquire land. Since the laws of this country are non-discriminatory, our concern should be on how to help land which is owned by women. At the moment, fertiliser is quite expensive to the extent that very few women can afford this commodity. We cannot depend on hoes to till the land. Some women might want to use oxen and others tractors. How much help are we giving to encourage people to get loans and buy tractors? 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the crop that is produced, what are we putting in place …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe … to see to it that the produce does not go to waste?
 
Sir, there are some high value crops that may not need huge tracts of land. In most cases, people think that land should be acquired to grow our staple food, which is maize. You can have even just a two lima piece of land and grow a high value crop such as paprika, which when grown, grounded and exported, can earn someone a lot of money. If we add value to whatever is grown and find an export market, many people will be interested in acquiring land. 

Sir, what is required, therefore, is for the Government to be creative and ensure that it secures ready markets outside Zambia for the produce so that people who are acquiring land for various purposes such as animal husbandry and poultry among others do not have problems in selling their products. If a ready market is there, we will see a good number of people acquiring land. So, all we need to do as Zambians is to start recognising the value for the land that we have. The only gift that we have as Zambians is the land. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Sir, the people who are benefiting from these mines are foreign investors. When someone comes to invest US$1 billion, the investment is in terms of the equipment that this person is buying to help with the extraction of the copper that he needs. The profit that the investor will get from this investment is taken to his home country. Such an investment is not something that we can be proud of. 

Sir, if, however, we invest in agriculture, and have value for the land that we have, whatever we will export as a nation will greatly improve our economy by bringing in foreign exchange. We have not utilised the export market for the crops that can be grown in Zambia. In order to encourage more people to venture into agriculture, we must ensure that we investigate the issues which I am talking about. Obviously, one cannot venture into agriculture in the air. It has to be on land. 

Laughter 

Mr Namulambe: For this reason, the entity in charge of processing title deeds, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, must be efficient. There are so many women who have been struggling to obtain title deeds. For more women to acquire land in Zambia, we must fast track this process so that they can obtain their title deeds on time. Why do we have to make them queue up? I know that most women cannot corrupt an officer at the ministry to expedite the release of a title deed. Why can the relevant authorities not simply fast track applications from women so that we encourage them to acquire land? 

Mr Speaker, it is good that the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and her Deputy are both women. They should ask their officers in the ministry to ensure that all the applications from women are quickly processed so that we see the number of women acquiring land in Zambia increase. 

Mr Speaker, this topic chosen by our Committee is very progressive and I sincerely support it. I want to urge the Government to put in place the necessary incentives to encourage more women to acquire land. 

I thank you, Sir. 

The Minister of Gender (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the mover and the seconder of this Motion that is talking about mainstreaming gender in land allocation. 

Mr Speaker, the current land policy talks about the allocation of 40 per cent of land to women, 30 per cent to men and 30 per cent to the youth of either gender. At the moment, the ministry believes that there is a need for a lot of consultation between the different players because of certain issues that need to be dealt with before the implementation of this policy. Having a policy is one thing and implementing it is another. Since the policy is causing problems which are making people cry, as depicted in the report, the ministry has taken a proactive stance to consult on this particular issue so that …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on my left and right!

Prof. Luo: ... those who are vulnerable, mainly women and young people.

Sir, gender has always been seen as an abstract thing when looking at many other issues apart from the issue of land in this country. However, the fight for gender equality is alive and we have to live it. As a result of people viewing gender as being abstract, it has been very difficult for certain things to be done. 

Mr Speaker, customary land was referred to a lot in the debates. This is why my ministry has taken a deliberate policy of going down to traditional leaders and engaging them on issues of gender including those to do with customary land.   

Mr Speaker, one way in which the ministry believes would be the best way to deal with traditional land is not to move along the lines of title deeds, but to move along the line of certificates of ownership. There are people that are testing this system to see if it will benefit the people more. If it works, it would be the best way to go for traditional land in terms of mainstreaming gender in the acquisition of the land. 

Sir, there was reference in the debates made to how women can earn more from their land and on mechanising the way the women till the land. I will bring a ministerial statement to the House on one of the engagements that we had across the country in terms of the empowerment of women. This programme was designed to increase the ownership of land and also to mechanise the productivity of the women. I am surprised that this debate has come to the House because I have made many references to the fact that my ministry is going to implement a programme called the Agriculture Development Value Chain Enterprise (ADVCE). In the last few months, we have been going around the country distributing tractors and tillers which are going to increase the utilisation of land by women. This mechanised equipment has been targeted at women and youth. This programme is a partnership between the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Sir, further, I believe many hon. Members have seen me on television or read about me in the newspapers distributing the tractors. The focus is not on the districts, but the chiefdoms. It is very important that we pay attention to some of these programmes. In one district that will remain unnamed, a lack of understanding of these programmes caused some people to go and withdraw the tractor from the women and the youth in the area. The tractor has been gathering dust up to now. 

Mr Speaker, the Government programmes are intended to benefit the people. Many of the constituencies across the country have benefitted from the ADVCE.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Sir, the land disputes that have been going on have nothing to do with the Government. They have everything to do with our attitudes as a people. Some unscrupulous people have been trying to disadvantage women and the youth in as far as the allocation of land is concerned. The ministry is of the view that we should not leave the handling of such matters only to this House. We have gone around the country implementing programmes such as the HeForShe Campaign so that the Zambian people understand that disadvantaging women is not a good practice. Since people do not want to talk about the actual problem, they would rather blame the Government. Who is the Government? The Government are the people of Zambia who have selected a particular group of people to provide leadership in the country.

Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of this debate to state that those who are speculating on land with offer letters and selling it to about ten or so people are disadvantaging their own daughters, sisters and granddaughters. The Ministry of Gender is determined to ensure that gender is mainstreamed into every sector of our society.

Sir, with these few contributions, I urge my colleagues to put in place programmes within their constituencies through which we can speak to their people on the importance of gender matters. The fight for gender equality in this country is alive. We have to live with that. Nobody should disadvantage the female gender or the youth.

I thank you, Sir. 
 
Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I apologise for indicating late.

Sir, we are discussing a very important topic today which is the lack of access to land by women and the Government’s pronouncement some years back that it was going to improve women’s access to land. 

Mr Speaker, it is a good thing that I am debating after the hon. Minster of Gender because it gives the Opposition a chance to react to what the Government is saying. Although this is unprecedented, it is about time that we looked at our Standing Orders so that when the Government states a position, the Opposition can also react. It is very difficult sometimes because once Opposition Members speak and the Government reacts with inaccurate facts, the Opposition have no time to react or to help the Government understand the real situation.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Gender talked about who the Government was. It is the responsibility of all of us to ensure that there is fairness in the distribution of land. The Government is about all the people of Zambia. Even as we are the Government, we have elected a group of people who constitute a team called the Executive. This team is supposed to ensure that where there are anomalies and inequalities, proper measures are put in place to ensure that there is fairness. It is the duty of the Executive to ensure that policies are in place so that all forms of inequality are dealt with. Whether it is in education or access to economic resources, it is the duty of the Government to ensure that where there is inequality, it is dealt with. 

Mr Speaker, for that last ten years or so, the Government has made pronouncements that it would ensure that 30 per cent of all the land allocated is given to women. These have been pronouncements made by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and the Patriotic Front (PF). Unfortunately, the assurances have just ended up as mere pronouncements. As we speak today, the land policy is still in draft form. There has been no political will to ensure that a policy is put in place which can guide all of us in the administration of land so that the inequality that is being experienced and discussed even today is dealt with. Why has the PF not finalised the Draft Land Policy so that it can ensure that there is legislation that allows women to have more access to land despite having been in power for almost five years? 

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the land audit. We are interested to know who owns what land and where. So many pronouncements have been made for many years by the Government about the land audit. 

Sir, the issue of land, if not handled properly, can create civil turmoil. The issue of land is about the economy of the country. Who owns the land at the end of the day will determine whether Zambia will grow economically or not. We all know that a lot of land is in the hands of foreigners. Foreigners have been given access to huge tracts of land. They use the title deeds ifor their land to access loans which they invest outside the country. Who owns the land determines whether the local people will remain poor or not. 

Sir, it is a pity that the Government does not realise that as we speak today, there is chaos at the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. The ordinary Zambians cannot access land. The land that is available is always given to non-Zambians or to the PF party officials who, in turn, take this land to the market and start selling it. Of course, the women do not have money to buy an acre of land in New Kasama at US$100,000. Those are the going prices for land in Lusaka. Where will an ordinary woman from Kanyama get money to pay US$100,000 for land? It seems that land keeps moving from one Zambian of some funny origin to another. As that is happening, we are creating a situation whereby the local people, who are the owners of the land, have started developing hostility towards the non-indigenous settlers of this country. The locals have started feeling bitter because the economic factor, which is land is moving from the Government to foreigners. 

Mr Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection will respond to this issue adequately. Why is it that so many foreigners own so much land? Why is it that the citizens of this country, the owners of the 754,000 sq. km are living in match box houses and tiny plots in Kanyama? Why is it like that? The answer is that the Government has not responded to the issues that are pertinent to the local people. Who makes up the Government? The Government is led by the members of the Executive who should deal with the issue of inequality in terms of access to land. 

Mr Speaker, in rural areas, the majority of the producers of the food we eat are women, yet, they do not have any form of title or ownership document to the land that they use to grow the crops. Where is the Government? Why has it taken the Government so long to realise that in order for the women to feel secure and to ensure there is food security in the nation, there is a need to give women some documentation showing that they own the land? We know that it is from this land where women grow crops which they sell to gain money to enable them to send their children to school. Where is the Government? 

Sir, the chiefs, as we speak today, are busy selling the same land that the women use to cultivate on. They are selling it to foreigners. I do not mean to discriminate against foreigners, but to state that most of the land in Mungule is owned by Chinese and Somalian nationals. The foreigners have been buying land that the animals of the locals graze from. Where is the Government? It is this same Government that issues title deeds to these foreigners who are displacing our people. 

Sir, are we, as leaders, not contributing to the xenophobic attacks that are now being experienced in this very peaceful country through the policies which we have put in place? What is causing our people to do what they are doing? Yes, there is some criminal element in it, but we must be mindful that there is the issue of poverty at play as well. Why are our people so poor? One of the reasons is that the majority of our people, who are women have no access to land. They live in rented accommodation in unsanitary conditions in compounds such as Kanyama and Garden, yet, just around them, land is owned by foreigners. This land creates a basis for the foreigners to have access to loans which can empower them economically. The question that we should ask ourselves as we lead is: Are we being relevant? Are we dealing with the problems that our people are facing?  

Sir, if we are not dealing with the problem that our people are facing, then, we are irrelevant to them as leaders. I want the hon. Ministers of Lands, Natural Resources and Environment Protection and Gender to ensure that the Draft Land Policy is finalised. There is a need to ensure that there is legislation in place that compels the Government officials to give 30 per cent of the land to women.

 Mr Speaker, it is very sad that this good Government has been making a lot of pronouncements, yet, when it comes to implementation, nothing has happened. These days when pronouncements are made, they are rarely believed because there is usually no corresponding implementation. 

Sir, we need to critically analyse the methods which we use to empower the women. I am on record as having said that we do not need the Ministry of Gender. I still maintain that same stance upto now. Why do I say that? It is because gender is a cross-cutting matter which has issues which cannot be addressed only by the Ministry of Gender. We need a secretariat for gender that will ensure that every sector streamlines gender in its programmes. 

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection should have a gender focal point person at director level who is going to be in charge of gender mainstreaming for the ministry. There must be someone at the ministry who will see to it that the allocation of 30 per cent of the land regulation is being implemented. We need somebody whose sole responsibility will be to make sure that the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection mainstreams gender in all its programmes.

Sir, we need a gender focal point person at the level of director in the Ministry of General Education to ensure that the ministry mainstreams gender in all of its programmes. The Ministries of Commerce, Trade and Industry, and Agriculture also need to follow suit. A stand-alone ministry for gender matters will do nothing other than just make pronouncements. 

Mr Speaker, we need more of our daughters to have access to tertiary education. This is critical because that is the only way we can ensure that women are part and parcel of the decision-making processes. Where are the women because they are nowhere to be seen? If nothing is done to address the situation, things are bound to get worse. The issue of gender mainstreaming cannot be left to one ministry. It must be a Government policy that every ministry has one person who is dedicated to ensure that gender is mainstreamed its programmes.

Mr Speaker, once women are empowered with land, education and good health, the development of this country will be easier to attain. As we go forward, I hope that the Government will review the distribution of land in order to ensure that the real owners of the land own it. We are not saying that those who are not indigenous Zambians cannot own land. They too can own land, but not at the expense of the real owners of the land.

Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection comes to wind up this Motion, I want her to clarify the point on the land tenure system which allows foreigners to have leases for ninety–nine years. I want to know whether the Government cannot give non-Zambians a lease for less than ninety-nine years. Does it have to be nine-years all the time?

Sir, let me now come to issues to do with the Draft Land Policy and how much land can be given at once to one person. I know that there is one family that collectively owns more than 200,000 ha of land through their companies, children, nephews and themselves. Where is the equity? Where is the Government?

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, my colleagues have said most the things that were on my mind. Thus, I will be brief.

Mr Speaker, where is the problem in as far as the management of our land which is our most precious resource is concerned. To a large extent, the problem lies in the Office of the Head of State. I am not only referring to the current Head of State, but all those who have occupied that office throughout our history as a country.

Sir, the Ministry Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has been very unstable as far as the presidential appointments are concerned. Between 2006 and today, 2016, we have had close to nine hon. Ministers at ministerial level in this ministry. This is an average of one Minister presiding over the ministry as Cabinet Minister over the past 10 years. In my view, the problem has been the instability at ministerial level because an hon. Minister is supposed to be at a ministry providing policy guidance for a considerable amount of time. 

Sir, the level of instability that we have had at the Ministry of Lands Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has affected the distribution of our land. This is why the draft policy on land has been lying idle for the past ten years, since 2006 when it was first drafted.

 Mr Speaker, in order for the ministry to do what it is supposed to do by way of providing policy direction, we need stability at ministerial level. Our Presidents have not been fair to the nation in ensuring the stability of that ministry by making hon. Cabinet Ministers stay in that ministry long enough to be able to provide sound policy direction.

Sir, the equitable distribution of land, efficient utilisation of that land, sustainable utilisation of the land, issues of rural/urban differences in terms of our development opportunities, the problem of rural transformation and the influx of more and more of our people into the urban areas is overcrowding the urban areas. The foregoing problems are making it difficult for us to fight poverty. 

Mr Speaker, the only available resource that can realistically assist us as a nation to sustain our poverty alleviation strategies is land. If we manage it properly and give it serious policy direction, we can realistically sustain our poverty strategies. Once that is done properly and each and every person who qualifies to access land is accessing it, and is being facilitated to utilise it effectively, we can address the poverty predicament that we are facing as a country. However, because we do not have very clear policy directions as far as land is concerned, we are just scratching here and there to see how best we can address poverty.

Mr Speaker, if we look at the example of the Mafikeng people in South Africa, as a group, they have gone to the extent of accessing the mineral wealth that they have. In accessing the mineral wealth, they have been enabled to generate more resources to the point whereby they were able to construct a stadium of international repute where the national team from England was based during the World Cup that took place in South Africa a few years ago. That is how it should be.

Sir, we need to go beyond just confining accessibility to the surface. If you own a piece of land, you are only confined to the surface. We should go deep, that is, underground to access the resources that are there. Our people should be enabled to access the wealth that is underground. Last week, we heard that more than 38,000 hectares of land was given to a mining company in the North-Western Province. People were displaced from their land and taken elsewhere.

Sir, why can our own people not access the wealth that is underground? Imagine what would happen to those communities if they were enabled to access to the resources coming out of their own land. They would be able to construct their own schools, clinics and roads. Imagine what would have happened if our people on the Copperbelt Province, that is, Kitwe and Mufulira, those who were there originally, had accessed the wealth coming from underground. I think, they would be among the richest people on the continent of Africa. However, the colonial laws were established such that those who would benefit from the underground mineral wealth would be the sons and daughters from the metropolitan countries of Europe. Now, that must change.

Mr Speaker, if we have to achieve the Agenda 2063 goals set by the African Union (AU), the colonially oriented laws that have continued to under-develop Africa and thrown us into poverty must be changed. These are the responsibilities of the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. The hon. Minister must work in conjunction with the hon. Minister of Justice in order to make the required breakthrough so that more people can benefit from their God-given resource, both on the surface and underground.

Mr Speaker, it is by so doing that we shall manage to seriously address the problem of poverty that affects us on the African Continent and here in our country. This can be done. All we need is revolutionary thinking in the way that we manage our land. Our President should participate in the process. He should ensure that the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection stays in the ministry for at least three years so that he or she is given an opportunity to think and reflect seriously on how best to manage our land.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mulasikwanda (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism.

Sir, I would like to talk about women misrepresentation in this country. We have the Ministry of Gender which was created to co-ordinate all the activities that involve the women in this country so that they can acquire the equity which we have always been talking about.

Mr Speaker, I think, we need to go back to the time when the Ministry of Gender was originally formed. It was called the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development. However, in most of the African states, this ministry is called the Ministry of Women Affairs. This is to enable women to understand who they are and what they need to do in order for them to acquire equity, especially in national development.

Sir, I just want to remind this House that there once was a draft Bill which provided for 30 per cent of all land allocated being reserved for women. I do not know whether this draft Bill was presented to Parliament for ratification. If this was not done, I urge the hon. Minister of Justice to go back to the drawing board and draft another Bill which will consent that 30 per cent of all land be allocated to the women. I believe that once this has been done, the women in Zambia will not struggle to get land because it will be law which will allow women to get 30 per cent of land. I know that if 30 per cent of land is given to women, the remaining 70 per cent will be for both men and women. In that order, the women of Zambia would have benefitted from this land.
      
Mr Speaker, those who have benefited from the land allocation have not been true to themselves. Many of the people who have been allocated land have not kept it to themselves. Instead, they have opted to sell it. I do not know why this situation has continued. For this reason, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Gender to come up with a proper sensitisation programme on how best our women can be helped to understand issues to do with land ownership. This is because the women keep denying themselves an opportunity to fully benefit from the empowerment programmes which the Government has put in place for them.

Sir, the real issues will only be properly addressed if the draft piece of legislation is enforced. Maybe, it is high time we went back to the roundtable and presented it to the Ministry of Justice.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor that has been ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwansabombwe. I know that my colleague from the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection will be winding up debate on this Motion, but being from a ministry which has some delegated functions in terms of land administration, I thought that I should say a few things in reaction to some of the issues that have been raised.

Sir, some of the problems which we face with regard to land administration can be addressed by the implementation of the Draft Land Policy. As was stated by the hon. Minister of Gender, the implementation of the policy is currently undergoing a consultative process. We have land that is under customary law which is under the jurisdiction of our traditional leadership. We need to engage the House of Chiefs in order to try to see how we can amicably harmonise the management of this land. As you may be aware, this is one matter which was quite emotive even when we were coming up with the supreme document of the land, the amended Constitution. It was very difficult to agree on issues regarding land. That is why we cannot hastily concluded consultations on the Draft Land Policy Government. As the consultations take place, we need to also take into account the issue of urbanisation which most Members have belaboured upon. Unfortunately, as a country, we allowed the land problem to become like a cancer engulfing the whole body. The way we have developed our urban cities leaves much to be desired. I think it is important that we start taking pragmatic steps to correct the situation. For example, in Lusaka alone, there are communities which were allowed to mushroom without being planned for because we wanted to scale up gender equity in terms of the allocation of land. It seems as if we have ended up doing things in reserve. The Government is trying to come up with practical solutions in terms of land administration. Parliament has since passed the Rural and Urban Planning Act which will help the Ministry of Lands to start apportioning land in a systematic way. Our ministry does pass on recommendations to the Ministry of Lands which, in turn, finalises such processes.

Sir, I want to mention here that I listened attentively to what Hon. Namugala said. She attached so much emotion to her debate in her response to what the hon. Minister of Gender said when she was talked about what constituted a government. I wish to state that the local authorities constitute councillors …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was just about to stress a point that even in the absence of a land policy, the local authorities should have managed to address the issue of gender equity in terms of land distribution. In the same way councillors sit and allocate land, they could have made resolutions meant to specifically deal with the issue of gender equity in land distribution. That is why I also said it would have been interesting to see how Hon. Namugala, as a councillor, would have passionately debated to ensure that a certain percentage of land is allocated to female applicants. Unfortunately, we have allowed disorder to characterise land distribution at local level. 

Mr Speaker, not too long ago, I came to this House and made pronouncements concerning some of the measures that my ministry has tried to put in place to restore order in the way the local authorities administer land. This has not been an easy undertaking, and that is because we allowed these activities to get out of hand. For some reason, and because those who perpetrated these illegal activities were connected to certain political parties, we allowed the problem to get to a level where it became normal and those against the vice appeared unpopular. However, we have no choice, but to put a stop to these illegal activities. That way, the local authorities will be able to plan the country’s settlements. It is through planning that we can ensure that both the male and female citizens are taken care of in terms of land allocation. It will also ensure that the interest of the disabled and youths are taken care of. However, for us to get to that level, there is a need for our citizens to change their mindset and attitudes.

Mr Speaker, some people have claimed that foreigners own huge tracts of land. You will be interested to know that our own citizens are the ones giving away the pieces of land to the foreigners. There is an area that was cited here which is customary land. Much as the Government comes up with regulations regarding land ownership, if our people do not appreciate the value of their land and understand that it is the only natural capital that they have, very little can be done to help them. So, there is a need for people to change their mindset. 

Sir, the hon. Minister of Gender alluded to the fact that people get swindled where land matters are concerned. I want to say that we are trying to come up with regulations to ensure that land transactions are monitored. It should not be a norm for people to use offer letters as a basis to transact. That is because these are letters that are generated at local level through the local authorities. Before the recommendations are given to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection for the processing of the title, you find that a certain piece of land has changed hands three or four times, just like the hon. Minister of Gender said. Therefore, it becomes very difficult for the Government to help its citizens when things are done that way. Nonetheless, we are putting in place measures to regulate these activities. You will recall that I announced in this House that among the measures taken to regulate the sale of land was the suspension of certain councils where we had challenges. That is why the situation is normalising. Going forward and working in collaboration with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, we will take stock of how much land is remaining as well as who owns how much of this land. When we do that, we will be able to get land from persons who have been holding on to it in perpetuity without developing it.

Sir, we may release that land to the citizens, some of whom are under pressure in as far as the acquiring of land is concerned. We did not plan for this population growth that has taken place in the urban areas. So, we need to do something about it now. We can only do something by getting some of the land that is lying idle and see how we can plan for its redistribution. That way, our citizens who are in need of land can have access to it. There are a number of other options that we are considering such as upgrading some unplanned settlements which are commonly known as shanty compounds. 

Mr Speaker, at the moment, poor families get displaced after selling their land at a seemingly big price. Since, the Government has made most parts of the country accessible, even the areas where the pieces of land for the poor are situated have become prime areas. The Government has constructed roads in areas where there were no roads. So, these pieces of land are becoming attractive. So, we want to protect our citizens by making sure that we put in place a policy in place to regulate the upgrading of some of these settlements. That way, the women and poor families in those areas will be protected from exploitation. 

Sir, I know that my dear sister, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection will wind up this debate. However, I want to emphasise the fact that we need concerted efforts to sort out the problems which we are discussing. We all need to collectively come up with a roadmap regarding land allocation.

Mr Speaker, I want to remind the citizens of this country that this Government has opened up this country by linking towns. People can acquire land in places with lower populations. There is no need for all of us to crowd the urban areas all because the rural areas are not accessible. This hard working Government has made many parts of the country accessible. Therefore, we should encourage our people to go and access pieces of land in areas where there is plenty of land. This country is not short of land. It has a lot of land, most of which is just idle. So, our people can have access to these pieces of land.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Ms Ngimbu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important matter on the Floor of this House.

Sir, I wish to start by thanking the Acting Chairperson and the other members of the Committee for the informative report. I wish to further thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate. 

Mr Speaker, I have taken note of all the issues that have been raised in the report. I have also taken note of the concerns which have been raised by the hon. Members on the Floor of this House. I wish to assure the hon. Members that my ministry will take appropriate action on the issues raised and ensure that land is sustainably managed.

Mr Speaker, may I use this opportunity to highlight a few things on the issues raised by the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on the Motion which is on the Floor. I will start with Hon. Muchima’s concerns regarding foreigners owning a lot of land compared to Zambians. I wish to inform this House that Section 3(3) Cap. 184 of the Lands Act of 1995 of the Laws of Zambia provides conditions upon which non-Zambians can own land in this country. Any non-Zambian who meets the provisions of the law has the right to own land.

Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that land being owned by foreigners has a historic aspect. Even before 1964, a lot of Zambian land was owned by foreigners. My sister, the hon. Member for Mafinga, Hon. Namugala, even gave an example of one family owning more than 200,000 ha in this country. This situation goes way back before the time of my sister’s party being in office. In order to give an advantage to Zambians over land ownership, the Government has issued a statutory instrument which requires non-Zambians to pay the market value to access land in the country. I am sure that will be of benefit to this country.

Sir, other hon. Members emphasised on the need for women to have access to land. Any Zambian in this country has the right to own land, including women. The Government has been allocating land to women in this country. My ministry has instructed all councils in this country to ensure that they reserve, at least, 50 per cent of land for women. That is being done.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mafinga also raised issues related to our having a policy in place. I would like to emphasise that the Government is in the process of putting in place a national land policy. It is, of course, in draft form and my ministry has been consulting various stakeholders across the country, including chiefs about it. We will soon invite hon. Members of this august House to also make contributions towards the development of this important document. So, it is something that is actually already in the process of development. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government, which is very caring, is actually taking care of this issue with all the seriousness it requires.

Mr Speaker, one hon. Member emphasised on the need to do land audits. I want to report to this august House that my ministry has a programme in place known as the Zambia Integrated Land Management and Information System (ZILMIS). This programme is for the purpose of carrying out land audits. The ministry has since engaged a company that has been taking some satellite images across the country which will enable the Government to accurately undertake an audit of the land in this country. This will enable the ministry to know how much land we have available for occupation.

Mr Speaker, I also want to point out that on the issues to do with gender, which were also highlighted by the hon. Member for Mafinga, my ministry has in place a gender focal point person. We have not neglected this matter, but have taken care of it with all the seriousness it deserves. We have a gender focal point person who is responsible for ensuring that gender matters are taken care of, especially those to do with women having access to land.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mafinga also talked about issues to do with land leases. My ministry can give out a land lease not exceeding a period of ninety-nine years. The Lands Act of 1995 clearly states that the President can allocate land lease for a period not exceeding ninety-nine years. The Government will, therefore, ensure that all applications for land are carefully reviewed so as to ensure an appropriate lease period.

Sir, in order to ensure that vulnerable groups, including women, are able to obtain certificates of land title, the Government, through my ministry, has commenced the National Titling Programme. This programme will enable the Government to issue titles for all the land which is owned by people, including land owners in compounds like Kalingalinga. This will enable many people to use land to access credit from financial institutions.

Mr Speaker, once again, I want to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this Motion. Like I have rightly said, I will make sure that all the concerns that have been raised in this august House will be taken care of.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to wind up this debate. I would like to thank all the hon. Members who have debated this Motion, including those who supported it silently while seated.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE ON THE REPORT OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL ON THE MANAGEMENT AND CONTROL OF LIVESTOCK DISEASES 

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Management and Control of Livestock Diseases for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 7th April, 2016.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, based on its terms of reference your Committee considered the report of the Auditor-General on the management and control of livestock diseases.

Sir, I presume that the hon. Members have read your Committee’s report. I will, therefore, only highlight a few issues from the report.

Mr Speaker, livestock diseases have a devastating impact on animal productivity, on trade in live animals, meat and other animal products, on human health and consequently, on the overall processes of economic development. Despite the importance of the livestock industry to the development of the Zambian economy, the sector has continued to face many challenges among which are the frequent outbreaks of livestock diseases. This is a major challenge on record which has prevented the sector from realising its full potential.

Sir, your Committee, in considering the audit report, invited various stakeholders to present oral and written views on the subject of livestock diseases.

  Mr Speaker, your Committee, after careful scrutiny of the findings of the Auditor-General, notes that since 2015, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock has operated without a Livestock Development Policy. This means that priority areas in terms of livestock disease control are at risk of not being addressed. Your Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to expedite the finalisation of consultations and the development of the Livestock Development Policy and Strategic Plan to ensure the rapid response in case of any disease outbreaks or threats.

  Mr Speaker, your Committee further observes that despite it being law and compulsory to dip cattle as contained in the Statutory Instrument No. 24 of 2014, the lack of operational dip tanks and pesticides is a major challenge. As a result of this, the law cannot be enforced. Your Committee urges the Executive to expedite the construction of new dip tanks and the rehabilitation of old ones countrywide.

  Sir, your Committee also notes that the non-submission of surveillance reports by the districts has led to the failure to maintain an up-to-date database on livestock and diseases. This has a negative impact in the management of livestock diseases. In light of this, your Committee, therefore, recommends that all veterinary camps are issued with stock registers without fail.

  Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that the last comprehensive livestock census was conducted in the 1970s. The lack of a census for many years has posed a major challenge in the formulation of strategies for the prevention and control of livestock diseases. Your Committee strongly recommends that the ministry must be adequately staffed and well funded and also empowered with transport to ensure that the livestock census is conducted, as a matter of urgency.

  Finally, Sir, your Committee notes that a cordon line is an important component of the disease control mechanism. In the past, this cordon line was complete with fences that are intact and supported by adequate human resource. However, the line has been extensively vandalised and is non-operational with no security to man the stretch of the cordon line. Your Committee recommends that the Government should provide funds to rehabilitate and operationalise the ‘condon’ line …

Ms Mulasikwanda: Cordon line, not condon line.

The Deputy Chairperson: That is the mother tongue interference.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Chipungu: … and operationalise the ‘condon’ line…

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Whatever it may be, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: It is understood, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: … as this is one of the effective measures against the transmission of diseases.

Sir, in conclusion, allow me to thank your Committee for the manner in which it conducted its deliberations and considered the views of all the witnesses who appeared before it. Allow me to thank the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their co-operation in providing the necessary information that was used in considering the audit report.

Finally, Sir, your Committee wishes to record its indebtedness to you, Mr Speaker, the Office of the Clerk and her staff and the Office of the Auditor-General for the guidance given during its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Ms Mulasikwanda: It is cordon and not condon line.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Namulambe: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture on the Report of the Auditor-General for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 7th April, 2016. Let me thank the Chairperson of this Committee although he was being disturbed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi to say cordon line instead of condon line, for ably moving the Motion.

The Deputy Chairperson: Before, the hon. Member continues, let me warn the House that we will run into serious problems with the quorum. Therefore, let us ensure that we stick around here.

May the hon. Member, continue.

Mr Namulambe: Sir, I wish to thank the Office of the Auditor-General for conducting a worthwhile performance audit on this subject matter. Time and again, we have always thought that the Auditor-General’s Office is just there to audit public funds, but I think the gesture they have started, of trying to bring to light things that are not being done properly in order to help us improve on our productivity should be commended.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the Veterinary Department lacks presence in most abattoirs in the country. Consequently, it is unable to collect vital statistics such as animal health data and information on possible disease-prone areas, thereby, losing the opportunity of creating an early warning system. Additionally, the lack of consistent veterinary presence in abattoirs has affected international trade in livestock and its products. The Committee, therefore, recommends that the department must ensure that it has its presence at all abattoirs to address the export market requirements.  

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observes that laboratories countrywide are inadequately staffed and lack both basic and advanced diagnostic equipment such as kits and reagents. This lack of equipment means that the officers are not able to do their work properly and efficiently. Your Committee strongly urges the Government, through the responsible ministry, to expedite the construction of regional laboratories and the installation of diagnostic equipment as well as to ensure that staff is recruited as a matter of urgency. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee also notes that camp officers lack basic tools and other equipment for use in sample collection, vaccinations and other activities. This has caused delays in collecting blood and other samples, leading to a delay in scheduled activities such as vaccinations. Your Committee recommends that the Government, through the responsible ministry, should procure and distribute the two kits and other equipment to the camp extension officers as a matter of urgency to avoid hampering disease surveillance activities. 

Sir, your Committee further notes that the quality of extension messages that officers are passing on to the farming community is very important. It is, therefore, necessary to provide the officers with current information backed with current research findings suitable for the Zambian situation. Your Committee further notes that awareness creation on the spread and prevention of livestock diseases should also be extended to livestock traders, transporters, marketeers and consumers. 

Finally, Sir, I wish to pay tribute to your Committee for the manner it conducted its deliberations and observe the views of the all the witnesses who appeared before it. I am certain that the Government will address the concerns as observed by your Committee in order to boost the livestock sector.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I thank the mover and seconder of the Motion for the way they handled their tasks. They have highlighted issues which are pertinent to the economy of this country and the livelihood of the nation.

Mr Speaker, the report has brought out issues which can rejuvenate the economy. For years, we have been talking about copper. Our economy suffers whenever there are movements in other economies because we have no control over the copper prices. However, we can have control over our land and animals. 

Mr Speaker, we need to focus our attention, ideas and behaviour towards certain issues in this country. If Botswana can succeed to be a beef exporting country when it is actually a desert, what about Zambia which has rainfall, rivers and everything else? Why have we been denied this opportunity to breed and look after our cattle? Why is Zambia affected by cholera and all sorts of diseases when it has management in place? Are we cursed? No, we are not. The problem is that we are not able to prioritise important matters.

Mr Speaker, let us sit down as a country to review what is going wrong. This country can be a centre for economic activity in the region. The availability of extension officers that we are talking about is critical. Do Government officials go round to find out how extension officers live? There are no incentives to motivate them.

Mr Speaker, there should be quality attached to whatever we do. Let us have interest in whatever we do. When we employ officers, it should not just be a status quo or a by the way activity. Let us motivate them and allow them to find value and take interest in what they are doing. They can only take interest in what they are doing if we look after them well. As a country, we have an objective that we want to achieve. If we keep taking things as fya Boma fye, meaning that these are just Government responsibilities, we shall fail to achieve the desired success.

Mr Speaker, the availability of extension officers which your report has referred to is very critical. The Government should be critically analysing things fifty years after Independence. We are at a critical time. Already, half a century has gone. We should now place ourselves in a position whereby this country will have a proper roadmap of alternatives. We are lucky that we have copper, land, water and a lot of other things. What is lacking is just the brain to put things into perspective and build our future.

Mr Speaker, there are all sorts of diseases in all parts of the country. Why should Zambia and not its neighbouring countries have all sorts of diseases? If we are saying that buffaloes are bringing these diseases, why can we not find a solution? Since we already have chemicals, we know how to deal with such diseases.

Mr Speaker, there was a programme of building dip tanks which I liked even though it was not implemented properly. It seemed as if it was just a way of siphoning money and giving it to people who do not even care for our animals and have no expertise. Those dip tanks are not complete. Whose interests are we serving? The dip tanks are supposed to be put in areas where we have animals so that we get rid of the diseases. 

Mr Speaker, when we are running a Government, let us not look at the colour of the people we choose to assist or the party which they belong to. Let us put the interests of our economy first. Look at Zambia as number one. Our tribe is Zambian. We all belong to Zambia. It is our future at stake. When you are in that seat as an hon. Minister, you need to put the interests of the economy first. You have to ask what the economy will do for us. This should be your priority and not your tummy. Look at what Zambia is supposed to earn today and tomorrow so that even when you make management decisions, you focus on the set targets.

Mr Speaker, this report has disclosed a lot of things. The onus now remains on the Government to see to it that the recommendations are implemented. The people in the Government should not be in their offices to merely drive Toyota GX Land Cruisers and Toyota VX Prados. They should take the recommendations in this report seriously so that we can move forward on these issues and go to another level in this country. In Zambia, we have everything else except co-ordinated brains. Let us send our people to go and learn in Botswana so that tomorrow, we can depend on agriculture and livestock for the growth of our economy. It is as simple as that. We should not be curing livestock diseases all the time. We should also prevent the occurrence of these diseases. It seems that we always wait for a disease to break out and then we start panicking. All the time, we do not take precautions to prevent diseases. Cholera is affecting human beings. Newcastle Disease is affecting chickens. All the time, we are surrounded with diseases. We should sit down to find out why these diseases are common in Zambia and not elsewhere. Why are we diseased? This is the issue we should analyse. 

Mr Speaker, in supporting this report, I want to urge this Government to be serious and look into the serious issues which are affecting our agriculture sector. The sector can liberate Zambia. We should not depend on copper alone. Let us depend on other areas of the economy. Other people are rich because of the way they care for their livestock. Zambia is a good country. I am supporting this report and I think that it should be supported by every hon. Member of Parliament. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. 

Mr Speaker, we have beautiful, well-written plans, but the problem is that we do not really do as we plan or say. This report is very well done. I wish to thank the mover and the seconder of the Motion. The cordon line for animals should be right in Washishi, Sikongo and Chavuma. If we control diseases in these areas, we will be able to improve our livestock production. Where I come from, people produce fish, rice and cattle. We are talking of cattle here, which is so close to my heart. We can also talk of buffaloes, although they are for tourism. If we take care of cattle, we can sell the skin, meat, milk ...

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised. 

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to rise on this very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is on the Floor of this House, in order to stand alone in the House? Where are his compatriots? Where are his fellow United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members of Parliament? There are only three there. 

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that a close look at all the sections shows that it is clear that there are gaps on both my right and my left.  All I can say is that let us take the business of the House seriously.

You may continue. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. Of course, I am not alone here. Every bench here is occupied. 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may be alone there, but you have all your representatives behind you.

You may continue. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I was saying that when we take care of our cattle, we will be able to sell the meat, skin, milk, cow dung and everything else that comes from these animals. Where I come from, all these things are useful. You can even make fire out of cow dung. The Government was wise to separate the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock so that we can deal with livestock issues directly. We have water bodies and plains in the Western Province which can support livestock production. There are some countries in this world which do not have copper which depend totally on cattle. We are very lucky in Zambia because we have everything at our disposal, be it mineral resources or animals. All we need is to act as per our plans. We should implement the recommendations which are raised in good reports like the one which we are considering. If the hon. Minister will not put his mind to implementing the recommendations from this report, we will continue having problems. We can export not only copper, but also hides and dairy products. Why should we import milk? All the shopping malls stock milk from outside the country. Where is the milk produced in Zambia? Do we not have milk produced in Washishi? 

Mr Speaker, let me conclude since I said that I would be very ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: ... brief. 

Mr Speaker, let us focus on improving livestock production. Some of us know how to take care of livestock. As a young boy, I used to be told to go and take care of a herd of animals. I know what it is like to take care of animals. I know how to get milk directly from an animal. The other milk you can have, apart from your mother’s is from a cow. Consuming milk which comes directly from a cow makes you brilliant. We have no good infrastructure like schools in the rural areas, but pupils in those areas do better in exams compared to pupils in Lusaka, because of that milk. I know what I am talking about.

Mr Speaker, let us implement what reports like this good one tell us. With these very few words, I thank you. 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, let me thank the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Hon. Chipungu, for having moved this Motion and for bringing on the Floor of this House issues which are very important for this country. I also wish to thank the seconder, Hon. Namulambe, for his input. Let me also thank the two hon. Members, Hon. Muchima and Hon. Mutelo, for contributing to the debate of the Motion. 

Mr Speaker, I am happy that the Office of the Auditor-General took time to look at matters affecting the livestock sector, particularly the diseases. As the hon. Minister for this ministry, I wish to state that this is one of the issues that we have been grappling with. I know that officers from my ministry appeared as witnesses and made certain responses. For the sake of the House and this debate, I agree with much of what has been debated here, especially the part that a well-managed livestock sector can be a replacement for the mining sector, for example. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, a number of countries were cited as examples and it was said that these countries have successful livestock sectors because of the way they have managed them. 

Mr Speaker, the challenge of disease is one that we have been talking about for some time now. As the Government, we are not sitting idly, but working very hard to ensure that we control diseases. In 1993, the cordon line was abandoned. This came to pass when the then Government decided to reduce on the workload as we had no cordon guards to take care of the line. It is also true that the moment the cordon line was mismanaged or abandoned, we had serious outbreaks of diseases such as the Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP) the following year. The CBPP is usually a result of the mismanagement of animal treatment by our neighbouring countries. While in Zambia we have comprehensive laws on dipping, our neighbouring countries do not adhere to these laws and as a result, we get outbreaks in those areas which should have been managed or controlled by the cordon line. 

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that my ministry has, so far, held two indabas. One was held in the Southern Province to look at the possibility of revitalising the cordon line, and the other in Mongu, last month, where we called stakeholders, farmers, traditional leaders and people in the livestock sector to look at possibilities of how to get this sector up and running. The cordon line was one of the issues that was talked about in both meetings. It is very expensive to put up the cordon line, but the ministry is trying to find ways and means of ensuring that we guard our borders through the recruitment of cordon guards before we set up the lines. 

Mr Speaker, the implementation of a livestock development policy and strategic plan, as mentioned by the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, is an outstanding area. We have almost finalised the policy and strategic plan for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. As you are aware, we had a combined policy, but due to the split, we had to come up with our own.  

Sir, the issue of dip tanks is one that has been talked about for some time now. I recall giving a ministerial statement to this House in which I gave figures on the number of dip tanks which have been built. Obviously, the figures have significantly changed now. Indeed, I know that to control diseases, we need to put all the necessary instruments in place and, dip tanks are one such factor. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry targeted to construct 224 and rehabilitate 297 dip tanks, bringing the total to 521. So far, we have worked on 153 dip tanks. We have rehabilitated 105 and constructed forty-eight. Since we know that these figures may not be sufficient, we encourage our farmers out there to not only look to the Government as the final provider of these services. Rearing cattle is a business which should be looked at as an investment. So, those that have enough cattle and those that are wealthy can also put up private communal dip tanks for the whole community. 

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture also talked about the need for a comprehensive livestock census. It is true that the last time the country carried out a livestock census was in the early 1970s. The Government, in this year’s Budget has allocated an amount for carrying out a partial census. The Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is trying to source more funds to carry out a comprehensive census that will address many areas of the livestock sector and give us updated data. The census will help us to be relevant as we talk about these figures and also help us to improve this sector. 

Sir, Hon. Namulambe talked about the need for the presence of veterinary officers in abattoirs. Indeed, it is true that the ideal situation is for veterinary officers to be present in the abattoirs. We have not had the presence of veterinary officers in the abattoirs due to limitations in our staffing levels. In trying to achieve this, last year, the Government employed 115 veterinary officers who have since been deployed to various camps. This year, we intend to employ an extra 1,000 officers. With these current numbers, we can start negotiating with the Ministry of Health to take over the presence of veterinary officers under health laws. 

Mr Speaker, both the report and Hon. Namulambe alluded to the lack of laboratories in the country. Currently, we are putting up regional laboratories dotted in various sites. Very soon, we will officially open the Solwezi Laboratory for use. I am aware also that in some districts, we have laboratories. Equipment for these laboratories which are under construction has already been bought and all that we are waiting for is for the contractors to finish some of the works. Some of the contracts were delayed due to certain challenges, but I can assure you that we are making a lot of progress and very soon, we should be getting this done. 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Muchima raised to a lot of issues. Permit me to state that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is very committed to making a successful livestock sector a reality in this country. The creation of the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is a show of the commitment on the part of the Government. We want to ensure that the ministry contributes to the growth of the economy and in the process, the improvement of the lives of our people. 

Mr Speaker, the biggest challenge for many countries that have livestock is the control of animal diseases. Botswana also has animal diseases. It would be an exaggeration to say that the animals in Botswana do not face livestock disease outbreaks. What matters, eventually, is the management of these diseases.

Sir, I know that there are red zones in Botswana which are disease-prone areas. Transportation of beef products to other parts of the world from such areas is prohibited. The Government has zoned the country into disease-free zones and disease-prone zones. Our Government is also mapping out the country in those categories. We are trying to split the country into disease-free zones and disease-prone zones.

Mr Speaker, many livestock diseases that we have come from game areas. The combination of buffalos and livestock raises a challenge, as Hon. Mutelo mentioned. We need to put up fencing to ensure that we protect livestock from wild animals.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Monde: Sir, you may recall that I was handing over 312 motor bikes three weeks ago to our veterinary officers who had no transport. All these are measures that the Government is putting in place to ensure that it manages animal diseases in the country.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about cattle, we also talk about beef, hides, milk and even dung. In some plains, the dung is used as charcoal. 

Sir, let me take this time to thank some hon. Members of Parliament who have taken time to attend the meetings that we have called them for. Their input in these meetings will help us to develop the country. I wish to thank all the hon. Members for their contributions.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I must acknowledge that the response from the hon. Minister was brilliant and comprehensive. Well done, hon. Minister. I also want to thank the two colleagues that have debated the Motion. That is my former son, Hon. Muchima, who comes in quickly to debate and walks out again ...

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: We note that he is no longer your son.

Laughter 

Mr Chipungu: ... and Hon. Mutelo. I also want to thank my neighbour here who kept on correcting me on that word which ends with ‘line’ which I will not mention.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Question put and agreed to.

__________

BILLS

REPORT STAGE

The Parliamentary Service Bill, 2016

The National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill, 2016

Third Reading on Tuesday 26th April, 2016.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT 

The Minister of Justice and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to. 

__________

The House adjourned at 1211 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 26th April, 2016.