Tuesday, 19th April, 2016

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that, in the absence Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, who is attending to other equally important Government Business, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, and Chief Whip has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 19th April, 2016 until further notice. 

Thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

CLARIFICATION ON THE POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. SYLVIA MASEBO, MP, ON THE ALLEGED DISPLACEMENT OF 400 PEOPLE IN CHIPALESA AREA, CHONGWE DISTRICT

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Ms Ngimbu): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to make a ministerial statement to clarify the point of order that was raised on the Floor of this House on Tuesday, 12th April, 2016, by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe Parliamentary Constituency. This is with regard to the purported demolition of houses and the subsequent displacement of over 400 people by police officers and cadres armed with guns in an area called Chipalesa, in Chongwe Parliamentary Constituency of Chongwe District.

Sir, I wish to inform this august House that the land in question was initially Farm No. 2021 and had a total of 2,214.44 ha. The said farm was owned by a company called Njolwe Farms Limited. In March, 1999, this farm was repossessed by the State and subsequently re-planned and subdivided into seven farms. These farms were later offered to successful applicants, among them, Farm No. 9819. This is the land upon which part of the 400 people illegally settled.

Mr Speaker, further, in 2003, five of the seven farms that were created in 1999 were repossessed, replanned and subdivided into fourteen farms. In 2004, 273 squatters approached the Government and claimed to have been displaced as a result of the creation of the fourteen farms. The Government constituted a team comprising officials from Chongwe District Council and my ministry. The team that included the area Member of Parliament, who was by then Hon. Sylvia Masebo, was tasked to establish the status on the ground.

Sir, the hon. Member can bear me witness that from the inspection on the ground, it was established that there were only forty-six genuine cases. Consequently, two of the farms were further replanned in 2006 to accommodate the forty-six families and the matter of squatters was closed.

Mr Speaker, of the seven farms, Farm No. 9819 was further subdivided by the owner, Riverdale Estate Limited, into subdivisions A to G. Two of the subdivisions, that is, A and E have since been transferred to different owners. The other subdivisions remained in the name of the company and are part of the land that has been illegally occupied. The company sued the squatters and won the case. Subsequently, the company obtained a court order from the High Court to remove the squatters from this land.

Mr Speaker, on 1st March, 2016, the Office of the Sheriff requested the police to provide security to ensure the execution of the court order on Farm No. 9819. It is in the execution of the said court order that the forty-seven households and not the reported 400 number of people were removed from Farm 9819 on 28th March, 2016. It is very unfortunate that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe Constituency stood and misled this august House by stating that 400 people were displaced.

Sir, it is important to point out that some of the squatters who have been evicted from the land owned by Riverdale Estate Limited were part of the people that were earlier allocated pieces of land by the Government in 2006, but decided to sell these pieces of land. The close relatives of these people are listed as part of the people who have illegally occupied the land in question. Surely, any responsible Government cannot tolerate such disorderly behaviour. However, the Patriotic Front (PF), being a caring Government and Zambia being party to the Kampala Convention on the Protection of the Internally Displaced Persons, undertook a social survey in the area in question to establish the number of people who illegally settled on this land for the purpose of collecting data that will enable the Government to take appropriate measures on genuine cases. The Government will not protect anyone who breaks the law of this country.

Mr Speaker, no hon. Member in this House would tolerate any person illegally settling on his/her land. I, therefore, wish to urge all Zambians to not illegally invade land. While it is the Government’s desire to ensure that every Zambian is protected, law breakers will face the full strength of the law. I further wish to urge land owners to ensure that they develop their land within the stipulated time so that their pieces of land do not attract squatters.

Sir, I wish to lay, on the Table of this august House, copies of the list of forty-six people who were identified and, subsequently, allocated land in 2007, which has been signed by their representatives and the 2016 list of 400 squatters prepared by the squatters and the map showing the squatters on the land in question as per social survey.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Ngimbu laid the papers on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has made some points which make it difficult for me to ask a follow up question and get a satisfactory answer, considering the rules of the House. So, I seek your permission to ask my question by way of laying some documents on the Table of the House and hopefully, with time, she can respond to my point of clarification.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chongwe, before you proceed, pause for a minute, please. At this juncture, you have an opportunity to seek clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister. If there are still any matters that you think require further attention of the hon. Minister and, indeed, the House at large, you still have the liberty to pursue this matter further with a written Question for Oral Answer. In the course of your seeking clarification, it will not be possible to lay whatever documented evidence is at hand. That is the manner in which we will proceed.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. The hon. Minister’s statement is not factual. Therefore, I will rest this case and hope that the people of Chongwe will make the right decision on 11thAugust, 2016, to enable me to deal with the matter.

Mr Speaker: Let me provide guidance, hon. Members. I have noted this trend, especially from last week. We have business to transact in this meeting like any other meeting. I urge hon. Members to avoid making reference to that seminal date and the events that are associated with it. It is totally unnecessary. Whether we say it or not, the day will come and decisions will be made.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Unfortunately, these are statements which tend to cause consternation in the House when suggestions such as, “We will win, you will lose,” are made. Let us leave it to the judges.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! The people of Zambia!

Mr Speaker: I take it that the hon. Member for Chongwe simply has no question by way of clarification for the record.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, when addressing matters of this nature, it is required that one uses both the heart and head.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: One should use the head because there is law involved and the heart because there are people involved.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, in her statement, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has informed this House and the nation at large that the land in question, on which the forty-six families settled illegally, was part of the sub-divisions that were made by the owner of the company in question. Clearly, that company must have failed to develop that piece of land for quite some time, hence the end result was that some people settled there. Is it not clear to the hon. Minister that that company acquired the land in question for speculation purposes in order to make money whilst the owners of the land suffer? I would like her to comment on that issue.

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, Riverdale Estate Limited Company acquired that piece of land legally and it followed the laid-down procedure.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, in her statement, the hon. Minister has sounded a very strong warning …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let me advise that during this particular segment, I will not any allow points of order until we are through with the statements.

Prof. Lungwangwa: ... to squatters throughout the country. Could the hon. Minister inform the House and the entire nation what pro-active institutional measures the ministry has taken to ensure that it is on top of this problem of squatters by way of information and other means of idenitifying those involved in illegal land settling? Further, how are you identifying those who are engaged in it?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, there is a procedure that is followed to identify squatters. It is well-known that when a person is allocated a piece of land, he/she should take not more than eighteen months to develop it. Failure to which, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection can repossess it. Therefore, I want to emphasise that if people have no capacity to develop these pieces of land they acquire, then, they should not even apply for them. There is a procedure and law in place as regards the development of land. The Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection is quite strict when it comes to upholding this law because the problem of squatters keeps coming up again and again.

Mr Mpundu: Tell them, my sister.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, the problem of squatters has become the order of the day in the country. Land owners are not serious about developing their pieces of land. Therefore, I want to warn applicants or people who are acquiring land, through the ministry or the council, to ensure that they develop these pieces of land. That way, we will avoid the problem of illegal settlers. When a piece of land is encroached on, it becomes difficult to remove illegal settlers from it. When that happens, the owners of the land start coming to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection complaining about their piece of land having been taken away, but all that is a result of not developing it in good time. So, let us be serious as we apply for land.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you have come from a different direction. The question that the hon. Member for Nalikwanda Parliamentary Constituency asked was what measures your ministry is taking to alert, inform or educate our citizens about the consequences of occupying land without lawful authority. 

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we have a task force in place which is looking into issues of squatters. It is tasked with the responsibility of sensitising people on the need to avoid land encroachments.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I did not hear the hon. Minister mention how long these people have encroached on that land. How long does one have to squat on a piece of land before they claim it as their own?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, there is no law that allows one to claim ownership of a piece of land after occupying it for a long period of time. What I can assure this august House is that there is a law which stipulates that a piece of land be developed within eighteen months of being acquired. If left undeveloped and it is encroached on, it becomes a problem as the case is over the land in question. 

Sir, coming to this specific case, like I have said in the statement, after undertaking a social survey, we discovered that only forty-six people were genuine squatters. So, those affected were each given portions of land on which to settle. That is the position regarding that particular piece of land.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I do recall when the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe raised this point of order. I am sure you agree with me that it was a loaded point of order. Among the details raised in that point of order was citation of vehicle registration number GRZ 701CE that was present during the actual eviction of these so-called − I do not like to use that term, but you can use it − I will call them Zambians who have been living on Riverdale Farm illegally. 

Sir, we have been to the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) to check who the owner of this vehicle is. I would like to find out if, in her response, she can tell us the owner of this GRZ vehicle and what function it was performing that Saturday afternoon. The alarm regarding the eviction of the illegal settlers came around 16:00 hours and at that time, I was in Chongwe. Could the hon. Minister also care to tell me who a genuine squatter is.

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to start by defining who a genuine squatter is. I used the term ‘genuine’ because those forty-six people were actually working on Njolwe Farm. So, that is how the ministry thought it wise to give those people portions of land and also because the owner of that farm recognised them as his workers.

Sir, as regards the GRZ vehicle that was seen on the farm that Saturday, it is not the job of the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to inspect who goes to that piece of land. That portion of land does not belong to my ministry, and so, the issue is between the land owner and whoever went there.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, since police officers were present during that exercise, it is possible that they are the ones who used the GRZ vehicle.

Mr Speaker: You are not supplying an answer.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Sir, Farm No. 9819 was subdivided from A to G. Subdivisions A and E were given out, leaving subdivisions B, C, D, F and G. I do not know how long the company has occupied subdivisions B, C, D, F and G. Has it been a period of eighteen months or more? Will we see more repossessions of the subdivisions of Farm No. 9819 since we have seen a lot of repossessions from the time Farm No. 2021 was repossessed by the State and subsequently re-planned and subdivided into seven farms?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, going by the numbers that the hon. Member of Parliament has mentioned, part of that land is developed by the land owner. The only part that has remained undeveloped is that which was encroached on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: How long has it remained undeveloped?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, Farm No. 9819, which belongs to Riverdale State Limited, was further re-planned in 2006 to give some portions of land to forty-six families. This farm was one of the initial seven that were created from the subdivision of Farm No. 2021 in 1999. Therefore, this land has remained undeveloped from 2006.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, how long should someone stay on a piece of land to possess caveat rights?

Mr Speaker: I did not get the latter part of your question. Please, can you repeat yourself.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am asking the hon. Minister to provide the length of time a person should stay on a farm to possess caveat rights.

Mr Speaker: Caveat?

Mr Muntanga: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker: What is the spelling of that word?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I have to follow these proceedings.

Mr Muntanga: I meant legal rights.

Mr Speaker: I suppose you have withdrawn the word ‘caveat’.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, because there is a problem with spelling the correct word.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I think I will take the latter clarification from the hon. Member. He meant ‘legal rights’ as opposed to ‘caveat rights’.

Ms Ngimbu: Sir, I did not get the question.

Mr Speaker: Do you want the question repeated?

Ms Ngimbu indicated assent.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, how long should a person occupy a piece of land before claiming legal rights on it?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, there are no specified number of years that make the stay of a squatter on a piece of land legal. Squatters are illegal settlers and have no rights to the land on which they encroach. Therefore, they can be kicked out at any time.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I might have missed part of the statement from the hon. Minister. I would like to find out from her whether, prior to obtaining a court order, there were efforts made to sensitise squatters that, in fact, they were occupying the piece of land illegally and had to prepare to move out. Was there such an arrangement?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, yes, the squatters were warned repeatedly to move out of that piece of land, but they kept on staying there until such a time that the police went with force. So, notice was not only given once, but many times.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, there is customary and State land tenure. Under customary tenure, chiefs and headmen can settle people on land. Under State tenure, people can lease land through the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, there are people in this country with huge tracts of land on title. Depending on the method of tenure, one is only allowed to develop land up to a certain value. Therefore, if I am only allowed to, for example, develop my land up to a K100,000’s worth, does that leave the rest of my undeveloped land open for anyone to occupy? 

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, once land is given out, it belongs to the owner. So, it is up to the owner to do whatever he/she wants to do with it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is that if there is a clause specifying the extent of developmental value, are third parties allowed to proceed to occupy the land on account that the balance, so to speak, of the land or the remaining extent has not been developed?

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Speaker, such a thing does not exist.

I thank you, Sir.

UPDATE ON CONSTRUCTION OF 650 HEALTH POSTS COUNTRYWIDE

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for granting me this opportunity to update the House and nation at large on the construction of 650 health posts across the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: As the House will recall, these health posts are being constructed at a total cost of US$55.9 million of which US$50 million is the Indian Government concession loan to the Government of Zambia. The Government of Zambia will contribute the balance of US$5.9 million. The loan agreement was signed on 29th March, 2012.

Mr Speaker, this project involves the following:

(i)    construction of 650 pre-fabricated health post buildings, staff houses and ventilated latrines;

(ii)    provision of basic medical equipment to 650 health posts to be constructed; and

(iii)    provision of solar power, boreholes and hand pumps to the facilities.

Mr Speaker, for easy management of the contracts, the 650 health posts were split into three lots in order to minimise the risk that may have result if all the health posts were awarded to one contractor. These contracts were signed on 3rd July, 2013. The lots were awarded as follows:

(i)    Lot 1, covering the construction of prefabricated structures, supply and installation of essential equipment for 208 health posts in the Central, Copperbelt and Eastern provinces, was awarded to Jaguar Overseas Limited at an amount of US$19,468,236;

(ii)    Lot 2, covering the provinces of the North-Western, Northern, Muchinga and Luapula, was awarded to Angelique International Limited at US$18,100,735; and

(iii)    Lot 3, covering construction of health posts in the Western, Southern and Lusaka provinces, was awarded to Megha Engineering and Infrastructure Limited at an amount of US$18,387,160.

Mr Speaker, the site handovers for this project were done in the first quarter of 2014 in all the provinces. The project was expected to be undertaken over a period of twenty-four months from April, 2014 to April, 2016. However, it has since suffered some major challenges that have warranted it to be extended by an additional six months.

Sir, the major setback that the project suffered was the termination of the contract for Angelique International Limited, covering 270 health posts in the Northern, Luapula, North-Western and Muchinga provinces. The termination was done following recommendations by the Indian Government. 

Mr Speaker, despite the above-mentioned challenge, progress has been as follows:
    
(i)    out of the 650 sites, contractors have been granted possession of 547 sites, representing coverage of 84 per cent across the country;

(ii)    a total of 266 super structures have been completed countrywide, out of which 102 have been operationalised and are being used by the local communities. We expect an additional 100 health posts to be operational within the course of the month;

(iii)    all medical equipment and construction materials have been shipped into the country to facilitate completion of the remaining health posts; and

(iv)    health posts that were under the Angelique International Limited component have been retendered and recommendations have been submitted to the Indian Government for its approval to proceed with the new contractor.

Sir, in view of the above-mentioned progress, completion of all health posts is now expected to be accomplished by October, 2016.

Mr Speaker, construction of these health posts is intended to bring health care services as close to the family as possible, especially in rural areas where currently only 46 per cent of the population is within 5 km radius of a health facility. This will increase to 80 per cent once these health posts are commissioned. This will greatly increase the percentage of mothers having deliveries in health facilities or being assisted by skilled birth attendants.

Mr Speaker, notwithstanding the constraints described above, I believe that the nation is witnessing the greatest investment in rural health infrastructure since Independence.

Mr Speaker, I would, therefore, like to assure the House and the nation at large that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is committed to delivering this project according to the revised schedule and that the Government has continued to train health workers that would be required to man these facilities.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF THE CHAPLAIN OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before we proceed with our business, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of Mrs Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Chaplain in the House of Commons in the United Kingdom. 

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to receive and warmly welcome our distinguished guest in our midst.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

____________ 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Health.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed us that this Indian facility, which we welcome, is to help us have 650 health posts constructed countrywide. Apart from access to health facilities that our people will benefit from, I thought that the hon. Minister would have negotiated that these health posts or some of them be constructed by local contractors who should have been chosen by the Zambian Government. 

Mr Speaker, if I may be allowed to say this, does the hon. Minister not think that it is about time that even when we, as a Government, are getting financing from other countries, we need to ensure that some of the work to be procured is done by local people as opposed to a situation where since India gives you a loan, it should even tell you who should construct the health posts? In such instances, eventually the money goes back to India. The benefit to the local people is very little.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, as usual, this is a pertinent question from a pertinent hon. Member who has, in recent months, made such pronouncements that are of value to the country in terms of whom you support and whom you do not.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, please, take your seat.

Please, let us avoid these campaigns. We will waste a lot of time because I will intervene, cartel debate, stop you invariably and if it persists, I have to escalate the measures …

Ms Lubezhi: Yes.

Mr Speaker: … so that I bring this issue under full control.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, you may continue.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I want to endorse the sentiments of the hon. Member for Mafinga. It has been part of the agreement with the Indian Government that subcontractors be local. This was insisted on and a minimum of 20 per cent of that contractual agreement has to be for Zambians to perform. There must come a time, indeed, when the whole contract would be taken over by Zambians. I think we are on that track.

I thank you, sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s statement and as a beneficiary of these health posts, I would like to congratulate the Ministry of Health on this project.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: A far as my constituency is concerned, of all the programmes that have been promised, this one has been delivered and I appreciate that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: The hon. Minister talked about having a problem with one contractor whose contract was terminated. When will these remaining health posts be completed under the new contractor?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, fortunately, we have completed the contract with the proposed new contractor. With the clearance of our colleagues in India, we can assume that the beginning is virtually now, within two or three weeks. Therefore, if we count from there, our thinking is that five months from our agreement is a reasonable period to give the new contractor to deal with the large number of projects in the Northern, Luapula, North-Western and Muchinga provinces that had to be abandoned by the previous contractor.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that one of the contractors by the name of Angelique International Limited, which was supposed to handle Lot 2, had its contract terminated on recommendation of the Indian Government. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Indian Government has disclosed the reason it advised the termination of the contract of this contractor and if the Zambian Government, which was the client, found the contractor wanting in any way.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it has been important for us, as friends of India, to work together throughout our contract period and the arrangement of our loan. In this connection, there have been diplomatic negotiations between the Government of India and the Government of the Republic of Zambia during which the Indian Government submitted the areas of concern that led it to come to this conclusion. This was done to the point that the Zambian Government did not feel the need to press the arguments further. I do not believe, however, that the details of these discussions would be of value to the House. I wish to be excused from providing them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, we have seen the completion of some of the health posts in our constituencies, but the worrying part is the lack of equipment. I have heard from the hon. Minister’s statement that it is part of the contract for the contractor to provide the health posts with medical health equipment. How much time should it take from the completion of a health post to the supply and proper provision of the necessary medical health equipment?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, because of security, the provision of equipment is the last action that is taken. Therefore, you will find that all those health posts that have been commissioned have equipment in place while those that have not been commissioned have equipment, but not in place. So, there is no period of time between construction and provision of equipment except the period during which there is nobody present in the facility to guard that property. So, the question of equipment for those centres is not of concern at all. It is a question of when is it safe and secure to put a piece of instrument which we know could disappear from that centre.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the contractor in the Western Province has worked on all the health posts in the other constituencies apart from Sikongo. When will he go on site in Sikongo because by last Friday, he was not there?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the concern of the hon. Member, but I think that is the kind of detail I may be excused from presenting. What we must ensure is that action is taken for this health post to be built, completed and become functional.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, my concern was about local participation and it has already been addressed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Very well.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, we appreciate this initiative of the construction of health posts all over the country, but as usual, the North-Western Province is always in the third phase of construction. In Ikeleng’i, there are only slabs. The contractor abandoned workers without even paying them anything. When will they be paid? Will it be until another contractor takes over the project?

Mr Speaker, in addition, what is the Government doing about those other clinics which we built using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which have remained non-functional? Should we continue singing about the Indian project while ignoring our own?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, first of all, I pointed out that the North-Western Province is one of the four provinces where there has been a specific problem relating to the contractor and, therefore, we must assume that there will be a number of incomplete health posts because of this problem. 

Sir, the demands for payment for work done by the contractor, who has been removed from these centres, are sometimes in excess of what we anticipated. So, the process of payment is not quite as straightforward as it might have been had the projects been completed. There is, therefore, a delay in some cases in the payment of the contractor who is leaving. This contractor came back and said, “I am not paying the subcontractor.” Now, this is a contract between him and the subcontractor. We have intervened in several cases, but really, this is a matter between this contractor and the subcontractor. It is only because we believe that Zambians must not be victims of this arrangement that we have had to intervene in several cases and we continue to intervene.

Mr Speaker, as regards the second issue about the clinics built using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I have been on record in this House before drawing attention to the problems that we inflict upon ourselves when we begin to construct structures without even informing the ministry that we are doing so. I recall that very recently, Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning was at pains to explain that some of those structures turn out to be inadequate, anyway, because of the lack of supervision. 

Mr Speaker, may I make a plea again that when you start constructing any structure that will become a health functional structure, let us into the picture from the beginning. That is our request. Otherwise, the rest is exactly the same as any other structure, Government or non-Government.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many health posts have been constructed in Keembe Constituency and where they are located. 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to appreciate the hon. Member’s respect for my mathematical abilities, but I think it might just be a little in excess of those abilities. I do have details written and they are available at any point for the hon. Member to receive, but I do not think I can give a point by point placement of the health posts. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I have noted the progress made in the construction of the health posts financed by the Indian Government. In fact, it seems that the completion of the Indian-financed projects is overtaking those that were started by the Zambian Government in 2010. When will the Government show equal commitment to those health posts that it started, such as the one at Mulinga, Luoke and Mushukula? When shall the Government commit to those health clinics so that they also get completed like the ones financed by the Indians? 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that we have already committed ourselves to continuing all the projects that were started before we came into office and we have continued to work on those projects. However, there must be a difference in relation to the flow of funds. Surely, the hon. Member will appreciate that in the case of the Indian loan-funded project, the cash is guaranteed as opposed to the Zambian Government-funded ones. While the Government of Zambia is committed to completing the project, it has had occasional difficulties in the flow of cash. Those fluctuations must be expected. There is nothing discriminatory about this activity. It is entirely a matter of the flow of funds that differs between the projects based on the Indian loan and those that are based on our own pocket. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, before the contract for the construction of health posts in Luapula, Muchinga and the North-Western provinces was terminated, how many clinics were completed in the North-Western Province and where are they located?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, again, I want to appreciate the respect for my capacity to recall all these centres. I did, in fact, commission one health post in the North-Western Province. So, I am absolutely sure I can tell you about that one. There have been a number worked on since then, but I think we should agree that as long as we had this loss of one contractor, there must be those that were not worked on. I do not know exactly what number has been commissioned in the North-Western Province, but I will be glad to provide you with the detail at any time. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell the House in which provinces the 202 completed health posts are or can I presume that they are spread out in the Central and Eastern provinces? Of these completed health posts, how many have appropriately qualified personnel? 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, certainly, the ones that have been completed are in provinces which were not affected by Angelique International Limited. The provinces affected by the termination of the contract for Angelique International Ltd, the North-Western, Northern, Muchinga and Luapula. There will be a few more health posts completed over the next one month. For instance, in the Central Province, five or six more will be completed over the next one month. Otherwise, these are the provinces that have been able to achieve their objectives and the other health posts will be completed over the next one month. 

Sir, other than that, I did refer to the training of personnel as a continuing process, but I can give the assurance, without the slightest doubt, that in terms of the community health worker, whom we promised shall be an invaluable member of the staff team of the health posts, there is absolutely no shortage or limitation to the provision of this staff member. There may be shortages where we have redefined the functions of a health post and we have said that, perhaps, in this area, health posts must already begin to take on functions additional to the definition of health posts as we saw it. In this case, there may be a staff establishment of as many as five. In that case, there will be some shortages, but not on the basic staff.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I want to put on record that the hon. Minister of Health is a very good Minister because the people of Chadiza are very happy with him. They are very happy because he has done what he promised about the health posts in Chadiza. If I had my way, I would reduce my days and give them to him so that he can live longer. 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

You can make those arrangements.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether those who are supposed to be trained to work in these health posts can be identified from the local community to which they can be sent back after the training.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the offer of longevity which, at this stage, I really value more than the hon. Member might. 

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think that the idea of identifying people to train within a community and later asking them to come back to work in that community is a very good one. I want to commend the hon. Member for making that suggestion. It has been made elsewhere and it is being looked at. As it happens, this has not been the practice in the early stages, but I think it is worth looking at in the future. 

Mr Speaker, if you may allow me, I have a note here from those who have the arithmetic of completed posts under Angelique International Limited, in case it is still relevant. Ten health posts have been completed in Muchinga Province, ten in the North-Western Province, ten in the Northern Province and seventeen in Luapula Province. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the contract for Angelique International Limited was terminated and consequently, the delivery of the health posts, particularly in the Northern Province, will suffer the delay. Firstly, what lessons were learnt from Angelique International Limited that will inform the new contractor that is about to sign a contract? Secondly, what penalties, if any, will be incorporated in the new contract? What monitoring mechanism will be put in place to prevent further delays beyond the five months that the hon. Minister has committed for delivery of health posts in the Northern Province?  

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I appreciate these very important issues that the hon. Member has raised about learning lessons from the Angelique International Limited experience. I think that it is very important that we learn lessons. 

First and foremost, it has been an agreement between two governments. Perhaps, because of trust or whatever, these possible differences between the two governments, over the coming period, may not have been recorded and noted. How do we handle a situation in which one partner decides that they are not happy with what is going on? 

I think that this is the kind of issue that diplomats often find a way not to cover directly for the sake of understanding. This is the lesson that we have learnt. I think that there have been other lessons which will make sure that future contracts, not particularly this one that we have signed now, are much more detailed in terms of the practice. 

As for the commitment for the period that I have mentioned, perhaps, Mr Speaker, only on this matter, may I be allowed to mention that it is entirely up to the continuation of good Government over the next five or six months. This is a matter that, perhaps, the nation might wish to look at. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, there was a question raised by the hon. Member for Mafinga over the conditions that the ministry used with the Indian contractors. We brought to your attention the problem in Kalomo, where the contractor refuses to build these health posts because he feels that those are not the right places in which they are to be built and that they are far. As a result, nothing has been done and not a single health post has been built so far. 

Hon. Minister, are you considering changing the contractor even though he was very categorical in stating that the money is coming from India and that it is them that should do the job. What are you going to do in this situation? 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I agree that there have been situations in which the original arrangement and setting has been questioned when putting into practice. We have regarded these as managerial issues and have laid principles and conditions and said that the local community must sit with this contractor, identify the problem, suggest a better location to build in and come back to us. As long as it does not cost us more and it is approved by the district council, it will be authorised. 

This is the way we have gone about handling this issue. There will always be management issues in any contract and we must be prepared to handle them if and when they come.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the update on the 650 rural health posts. It is a pity that Angelique International Limited’s contract was terminated, resulting into the non-speedy completion of the rural health posts in the four provinces, including the North-Western Province. 

Nevertheless, Sir, my area of concern is on the design and size of these health posts and the materials that are purportedly being used. I wonder if Zambian engineers and planners were involved in the design of these health posts because their size is very small. 

My other concern is on the materials that are being used in the construction of these health posts. The insinuation is that the materials are a health hazard. Could we have clarification on these three issues, the design, size and materials being used? 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to reassure the hon. Member that considerable time and effort was put into the design of these structures. This was a new initiative and our colleagues in the Ministry of Works and Supply came forward and worked with us. I recall very well the amount of time that it took before an agreement was reached on the structures. Since then, some of the points that the hon. Member has raised have come up. However, these are consequential. These are consequences of what was agreed upon and not a lack of detailed thought put in. The fact that this was a new effort or phenomenon, some things might have been missed. 

We would like to think that, in fact, these structures, being the very first ones, will be food for thought when we construct the next structures, and this has been taken on board. It is a very important. In particular, we have noticed the importance of providing for maternity services and one or two other things. These are lessons we are taking upon ourselves. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

____ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REPAIR OF BLOWN OFF ROOFS AT SCHOOLS IN CHASEFU CONSTITUENCY

394. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning when the Government would repair the roofs which were blown off in December, 2015, at the following schools in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Msolomoka Community;

(b)    Champheta Community;

(c)    Kamwa Community;

(d)    Mwasi Community; and

(e)    Malandula Primary. 

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS), undertook an assessment of the extent of the damage to Msolomoka, Champheta, Kamwa and Mwasi Community schools, and Malandula Primary School in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency, whose roofs were blown off in December, 2015. 

As a stop-gap measure, the District Education Board, in conjunction with the Parents Teachers Associations (PTAs), has since mobilised enough local materials to commence repair of the blown off roofs as soon as possible. 

With regard to Malandula Primary School, it is provided for in the 2016 Infrastructure Development and Rehabilitation Plan and will, therefore, be rehabilitated once funds are released. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, ..

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, thank you for granting me this important, but sombre point of order.

Sir, we have a Constitution in this land which all hon. Members of Parliament have sworn before you to defend and protect.

Mr Speaker, there is a rising preponderance for the Patriotic Front (PF) Government officials to exercise their inherent fundamental freedom of expression in order to cast aspersions and disparage other citizens. In raising my point of order, I would like to quote from the Constitution of Zambia Act No. 2 of 2016, in the preamble, to begin with, and then I will go to part III of the old Constitution that addresses the issue of the fundamental rights and freedoms of an individual. 

Sir, our Constitution, which is a sovereign document, in the preamble, says, inter alia, that:

“We, the people of Zambia:

uphold the human rights and fundamental freedoms of every person;

confirm the equal worth of women and men and their right to freely participate in, determine and build a sustainable, political, legal, economic and social order;

recognise and uphold the multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religious and multi-cultural character of our nation and our right to manage our affairs and resources sustainably in a devolved system of governance;

resolve that Zambia shall remain a unitary, multi-party, democratic and sovereign State”.

Mr Speaker, part I of the Constitution, at (1), deals with the supremacy of this document which we enacted not long ago. It says that:

“This Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic of Zambia and any other written law, customary law and customary practice that is inconsistent with its provisions is void to the extent of its inconsistency.”

Sir, finally under part I it says that: 

“This Constitution shall bind all persons in Zambia, State organs and State institutions.”

Mr Speaker, under part III of the Constitution that is coming in a referendum in the ballot paper on that date, which you have forbidden us from mentioning, addresses the fundamental rights and freedoms of an individual.

Sir, I would like to quote the Minister of Energy and Water Development, Hon. Dora Siliya, who is on record in this House as having lifted her middle finger before the Government, which we respect ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, is what you are referring to still part of your point of order or it is a cross reference which, I think, might be irrelevant to your point of order? I want to be sure. Unless you want to get us back to that event, I do not know IN what year it took place, and address that matter today, if not, let us be relevant. I know the dynamics. I am very conscious about the dynamics.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I confirm that this is a reference point whose relevance you will see in a second. 

Sir, I repeat, this is the same hon. Minister who raised her middle finger before the Government that she is serving today. Two days ago, Hon. Dora Siliya, Member of Parliament for Petauke Central and Minister of Energy and Water Development, is on record – there is a verbatim record of what I am reading here, but I will lay this paper on the Table for your reference – as having said, in the Post Newspaper of Tuesday, April 19th 2016, that:

“Dora Siliya says no sane person will vote for UPND ...” in that date of the general election which you have stopped us from mentioning.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just take a seat because I want to be very clear about these matters.

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, take your seat. That date is not sacred. I want to be clear. What I am proscribing or prohibiting is campaigning ...

Mr Nkombo rose.

Mr Speaker: No, let me finish because I do not want to repeat myself too frequently. 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: What I am proscribing is campaigning. In the last week, we noted that there was a propensity for people to use this platform for political campaign. That is what I am prohibiting. If you ...

Mr Nkombo rose.

Mr Speaker: Just hold on. You will notice when I am through. 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: ... make a clinical reference to that date, there is no difficulty. For instance, if, you say part III will be considered in a referendum and a referendum is scheduled to be held on the 11th of August, 2016, then that is innocuous, but you run into difficulties if you now say “we will see,” “you will be dealt with,” “you are going to lose” or “we are going to win.” That is what I am trying to discourage, in fact, not just discourage, but prohibit altogether. 

So, if you make a reference to the third part of the Constitution, there is nothing wrong. I want to be clear about this.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I truly value your guidance, but being your whip and an obedient servant, I took a wrong direction. I will just stick to what is written on this paper and what is on the verbatim record. 

Mr Speaker, the article states that:

“Dora Siliya says no sane person will vote for the UPND in the 11th August, 2016 General Election.”

Sir, I repeat “no sane person”. It further states:

“Addressing a gathering in Petauke Central Constituency last week after she welcomed defectors to the PF, Siliya wondered why it was so difficult for the people of the Southern Province to support a non-Tonga candidate whenever there are elections.” 
Mr Speaker, the second paragraph is not so relevant. Therefore, I will skip it. At third paragraph, she further said, 

“It is impossible for a sane person to vote for the UPND because of the party’s selfish leadership. I have not come here to insult. I have come here because no sane person can vote for the UPND. This is my reason for being here. No sane person can vote for the UPND. In the history of Zambia, we, the Easterners, supported past Presidents from other tribal groupings. We supported Chiluba. Was he not from Luapula? We supported Levy Mwanawasa. Was he not a Lenje? We even supported Rupiah Banda and now, we want to support Edgar Lungu.”

Sir, my point of order is arising from the indelible fact that whilst disparaging others, those of us who vote for the UPND, to be insane, she is also stating a false statement. It is true that in 1991, when Dr President Fredrick Chiluba, may his soul rest in peace, ascended to power, the United National Independence Party (UNIP) from a certain region did not vote for the Movement for the Multi-party Democracy (MMD)?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the thrust of my point of order now is referring to part III of this Constitution, which while giving an individual the right to express themselves, also protects other individuals from being disparaged, such as saying that one is insane. Sir, “insane” is a very strong terminology. I have actually started feeling insane because I am a member of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sorry, I am a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND). I beg your pardon.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! It is just a slip of the tongue.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, speaking for myself, I feel greatly insulted by Hon. Dora Siliya to be deemed insane. That is a very strong term, indeed. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central, who stood right there (right) many times, an experienced hon. Member of Parliament, in order to give a stereotyped statement about some of us who did not have a choice of where we were born? Is she in order to issue a hate speech insinuating that we are mad just because we are seeking political office?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, when asked in today’s Radio Phoenix news, Hon. Dora Siliya, again, condescendingly stated that she was not referring to any tribal grouping, but the leader of the UPND. I was broken. Is she in order to promote hate speech in a unitary democratic State and its among citizens by stating that we, who are in the UPND and those who continue to vote for us, are insane? 

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: My ruling will be very brief and extempore. Last week, I did refer to the fact that we are in a special season. We are on the verge of entering the election campaign period. I am referring to the lawful period of campaigning. As a result of the quest for power on one hand and a bid to hold onto power on the other, there will be all manner of statements made, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … especially out there in the field. I must mention now and here that I have no jurisdiction over what is being said outside the Floor of this House. I repeat myself. I have no jurisdiction If there are any offences, civil wrongs or class libel committed under our Constitutional democracy where we observe separation of powers, the other institutions are available to deal with these matters. Apart from that, we also have a specialised body which is mandated to supervise the elections, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). We also have an Electoral Code of Conduct whose enforcement, again, beyond me. If there are specific issues relating to the Constitution, again, we have just unveiled a new body, our own Constitutional Court (concourt), …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … which others have already happily begun to resort to. My task, and I am on record on this matter, is to only deal with provisions of the Constitution or, indeed, subordinate legislation that have a bearing on the management of the affairs of the House. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: So, I cannot step in the matters complained about in the point of order, and will rest my ruling here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, is there any time frame in which we should expect money to repair the roofs at Malandula Primary School? 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, I did mention in my response that the assessment was made at the end of 2015. At that time, we had already approved the Budget. This is the reason these rehabilitations will be incorporated in the 2016 Infrastructure Development Plan and the repair of the roofs will certainly depend on the availability of the release of funds.

I thank you, Sir.

LAND ALLOCATED TO TRIDENT KALUMBILA MINE

395. Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:
(a)    what the total hectrage of land allocated to Trident Kalumbila Mine in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency was;

(b)    how many people were negatively affected by the allocation of the land to the company;

(c)    how much money was paid to the people who were displaced by the mining company;

(d)    whether the affected people had been given alternative land for resettlement; and

(e)    if so, where the displaced people had been resettled.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the total hectrage of land allocated to Trident Kalumbila Mine in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency, is 38,800 ha for mining activities and 4,000 ha for the development of the mine township.

Sir, a total of 683 households were affected by the allocation of the land to Trident Kalumbila Mine. Further, a total of US$16,872,200 has, so far, been paid to the people who were displaced by the mine.

Mr Speaker, the affected households have been given alternative land for resettlement. The Government allocated 4 ha for farming to each household and the mining company has built permanent houses for each of the affected households.

Sir, the displaced people have been resettled in Shinengene area, which is in the southern part of the resettlement area, and Kalumbila North, which is in the northern part of the resettlement areas.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Kasonso: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the response.

 Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

 Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to raise this point of order because it borders on the security of this country.

 Mr Speaker: Order!

 I did not get the word.

 Ms Imenda: Security, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, yesterday, there were riots in the western part of Lusaka, in Kanyama to be specific. As I am speaking now, the riots have spread to Kamwala South, Kamwala, Mtendere and various other places and we are really worried. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to sit in this House and pretend as if all is well without assuring this House and the country that we are safe? He is, at least, supposed to say something about this issue. Is he in order?

 I need your serious ruling.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

In fact, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has approached my office for leave to issue a statement and I have since granted that leave.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasonso: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister why his ministry has not sat down with Senior Chief Musele to explain to him in detail and provide him with a map showing the boundary of the land that has been allocated. Since the ministry has not done that, there is so much speculation on the amount of land that the Government has allocated to the mine. This has caused a lot of problems. There are accusations and innuendos that, perhaps, the mines have been given too much land. Why has the ministry not sat down with the chief to explain in detail the land that the Government has allocated to the mine?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.    
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, it is true that we have not gotten back to His Royal Highness, Senior Chief Musele to discuss the way forward. It is also true that His Royal Highness gave out land for mining development. What happened thereafter was that His Excellency the Republican President appointed the Inter-ministerial Committee to look at the land which was allocated for mining development. The discussions with the mines are in progress. Therefore, we will get back to the chief as soon as we conclude them.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I want to hear from the hon. Minister on the compensation part, especially the resettlement of the owners of the land in question.

Sir, I have been to the Southern Province where Albidon Mine is and I have noticed that the Chinese follow a certain standard in the construction of houses for compensation. However, is the ministry happy with that type of a house which is being termed as compensation to those people? Has the hon. Minister visited the place I am referring to, to ascertain whether those houses are adequate compensation?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the Government is happy because the construction of these houses was agreed upon by the affected people. Public meetings were held prior to the construction of those houses. In fact, those who were compensated are very happy, just like the Government is, that the affected people have been compensated.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.     

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, 38,800 ha of land is a lot of land. In Zambia, we are privileged to still have huge tracts of land that are not developed, but this land is running out as we continuously place it in the hands of foreign organisations. What arrangements has the Government put in place to ensure that the land that will not be utilised will be reverted to the people of that area and what is the lifespan of that mine?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, hon. Members may wish to know that the chief gave out about 51,800 ha of land to the mining project. Now, upon receiving that application, the     Inter-Ministerial Committee decided to only give out 38,800 ha for mining activities. So, it was reduced to 38,800 ha. However, I would not know the lifespan of that mine.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I take it that the people who have been displaced …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the Former Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Dr John Phiri. Sometime last year, he told this House, in particular those of us from the Western Province, that a concession loan of US$14 million was borrowed for boreholes to be sunk in 100 villages. He went further to state that he launched that project at a place called Kaande, in Mongu. From that time, the ministry has not come back to this House after stating that officers to handle this project would be trained in August to December, 2015. Is the current hon. Minister of Local and Government and Housing in order to remain quiet about that project of water and sanitation? Parliament is about to dissolve and we have not been told whether that project will still be undertaken or not.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Senanga, I would urge you to file an urgent question. We will process it with dispatch.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, other than the houses that have been built for those people who were displaced, are they going to benefit in any way from the profits that will be made by the mine?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the people who were displaced have been compensated in two ways. Initially, their livelihood is dependent on agriculture. So, the mining valued the crop which was grown on the land they used to occupy and gave out about 4 ha to each household and has also built houses for them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, apart from 38,800 ha, I believe another 4,000 ha was added bringing the total to 42,800 ha. I am aware that according to the Mines and Minerals Development Act, a licence is given for 250 ha. Is it possible that the Inter-ministerial Committee allocating land in Kalumbila can reduce it so that others can also benefit as the hon. Member for Mafinga stated?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, earlier on, I said that initially about 51,800 ha of land were given out by the chief. So, upon the Inter-ministerial Committee sitting and weighing the activities of the mine, it realised that the portion of land was too big and only gave out 38,800 ha for mining activities. The chief further gave out 10,000 ha of land of which the Inter-ministerial Committee recommended 4,000 ha for the development of the mine township.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member’s question seems to be that in spite of all these concessions, so to speak, in his opinion, he feels there is a need for further reduction of the land. What is your view, as a Government?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, that is why His Excellency the President appointed the Inter-ministerial Committee to look at that application. I will forward this suggestion to the committee so that it can consider doing that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Thank you very much for that gracious response.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that the people in that area were happy because of the houses that are being constructed for them. I would like to find out from him whether despite the Government giving the people 38,800 ha of land, they carried out a survey to find out whether they are happy because the information I have is that they are very unhappy and are against the Government.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, earlier, I said that those people have been given 4 ha of land each for cultivation and had houses built for them. Before this decision was arrived at, public meetings were held and they all agreed that those who had one-roomed houses would be given two-roomed houses. So, I am sure they are happy because they all agreed at the public meetings.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, 38,800 ha translates to about 38 km. If we add on another 4,000 ha, it becomes about 44 km, meaning an area from Lusaka to Kafue.

Sir, do we have a land policy which is used in determining the actual land needed for mining activities as opposed to simply giving out such large tracts of land? In South Africa, they do not have the kind of luxury we have here of giving away land covering 44 km. 1km is 1000 m, and so, this is a huge piece of land. Do we not have a land policy that guides that land be given at its barest minimum to inhibit giving out such huge tracts of land?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, there is a policy in place. Although Kalumbila Mine has been given 38,800 ha of land, the owners of the mine had actually applied for more. However, after realising that the land that the mine had applied for was a bit too much, we concentrated on looking at their mining activities. That is why we arrived at 38,800 ha. 

Sir, the mine’s many activities demand that it gets this amount of land. The mine carried out its own surveys and found that the area in question is where the copper ore was. That is how come we gave it the 38,800 ha of land.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was about policy. Implicit in it is, is the extent of how much land determined in advance will be required for mining?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, no.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, yes or no. Is there a policy?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You should just ask a question.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency, ... 

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this is a procedural point of order. In his response to the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe Parliamentary Constituency, the hon. Deputy Minister said that he was sure that people are happy about their compensation because those who occupied one-roomed houses had been given two-roomed houses. To insinuate that people are happy, he is supposed to have empirical evidence which actually points to the happiness of the people. Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to make insinuations which are not supported by empirical evidence?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I have a difficulty here. The hon. Deputy Minister has responded to the question. To summarise, what is at issue is the happiness of the affected parties or their response to the measures taken by the Government. On one hand, information on the ground indicates that it is being contended that the affected people are not happy. On the other hand, the hon. Deputy Minister is also contending that as far as he is concerned, and as far as he knows, the people are happy. I do not know how, as Speaker, I can break that impasse. I cannot do that because it is a factual dispute. Not to mention that happiness itself is also a subjective element. Whether there is a need for empirical evidence or whether he has empirical evidence is an independent question which can also be pursued separately.

 However, as far as the Government is concerned, when it put those measures in place, its assessment is that the affected parties are happy. I do not think we should carry it further than this. If we want to pursue it further, in more detail, as usual, the doors are open. You can file a question and we will put it to your colleagues on the right.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I have been down the road where a mining investment infringes on peoples’ rights. My assumption is that is why the hon. Member of Parliament for the area in question has brought this matter before the Executive. The issue here is that of a land policy. I was not being comical when I said yes or no. I was confused. If the land policy exists, could the hon. Minister avail that piece of document to us. My ignorant mind tells me that apart from the Land Circular of 1985, which is also very unclear regarding to what extent the chief can give land, there has been no other. So, could the hon. Deputy Minister do me a favour and bring that policy, probably, before we adjourn today. He can just call the people in his ministry to ask them to bring one for me to read so that I can be enlightened. Is he able to do that?

Mr Mukanga indicated dissent.

Mr Nkombo: Hon. Mukanga has refused.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you cannot engage Hon. Mukanga.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply, ...

Mr Speaker: Are you done with your question?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, sure.

Mr Speaker: Let us leave it at that. If you followed, I did intervene in this regard and asked a question to clarify the issue about policy. I did that by asking the hon. Deputy Minister whether there is a decision or policy determining in advance the extent of land that may be allocated. His answer was, no. Earlier on, he had said there was. However, after I sought clarification, he said no. So, if you want to get it plainly, the hon. Deputy Minister is saying that there is no policy.

Mr Nkombo rose.

Mr Speaker: Unfortunately, the rules cannot permit you to intervene in that fashion.

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: There are several of you in that political grouping (pointing at hon. UPND Members). Use other people there.

Mr Nkombo pointed at Hon. Shakafuswa.

Mr Shakafuswa: I am a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND), but Patriotic Front (PF).

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, our people are wallowing in poverty because of the absence of certain policies. Do we have a deliberate policy that seeks to give displaced people priority when the mines are employing?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, let me just try to explain a bit about what has happened in this case. Some of the people who were displaced have since been taken on and employed by the mines. Those who opted to continue with their way of life, which is farming, have been given land on which to continue farming. So, in this case, the issue of a deliberate policy does not arise because it was an agreement between the mines and the people that were displaced. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that the chief had initially given away 51,800 ha of land. I find this to be in conflict with the mandate that has been given to a chief in terms of the extent of hectrage of land that he can give. Could the hon. Deputy Minister clarify whether it is the chief who gave the mine the initial 51,800 ha of land or, as mandated, the chief was limited to giving 250 ha of land? Could the hon. Deputy Minister give us that clarification.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, indeed, His Royal Highness, Senior Chief Musele, gave away 51,800 ha of land. Chiefs do not give land titles and, therefore, the chief just recommended 51,800 ha to His Excellency the President so that the Government could give title to the successful applicants for this land. Chiefs are custodians of traditional land and we approached Senior Chief Musele to give us this particular piece of land.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NAKANYAA SECONDARY SCHOOL

396. Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda) asked the Minister of General Education:

(a)    when the Nakanyaa Secondary School in Nalikwanda Parliamentary Constituency, which was originally scheduled to open in May, 2015, would open;

(b)    what had caused the delay in opening the school; and

(c)    what measures had been taken to ensure that the school was opened according to the new schedule.

The Deputy Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the construction of Nakanyaa Boarding Secondary School, in Nalikwanda Parliamentary Constituency, is almost complete and the school is expected to open in May, 2016. The project was executed in two phases. Phase I comprised the construction of classrooms, boarding hostels, dining halls and laboratories. In Phase II, we concentrated on the construction of external works, which included the sewer and water reticulation. 

Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the project is attributed to accessibility challenges, as a result of the sandy feeder roads, in addition to cash flow challenges, as a result of the delayed honouring of interim payment certificates. The contractor is working on the minor finishing works that have remained. The major outstanding one is the supply of a generator to the school. The contractor has since been requested to install the generator so that the school opens.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the opening of this school has tremendously been delayed by the Ministry of General Education. Last year, we were told that the school would open in May, 2015. This year, we are, again, being told that it will open in May, 2016. I am sure even the generator that the hon. Minister has mentioned has not yet been bought. This means that come May, 2016, it is very unlikely that the school will open. Can the hon. Minister make a categorical assurance to the children of Nalikwanda that Nakanyaa Secondary School will definitely open its doors come May, 2016, which is next month and is just two weeks away. What measures have been taken to ensure that the school opens its doors to the children by that date?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, it is true that the opening of the school has been delayed, but not deliberately so. I will state a few facts just to demonstrate this. The project for this school was valued at K36 million, out of which K35 million has already been paid to the contractor. This means that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has dealt with the operational challenges that this school has had over the years. We are only remaining with a balance of K1 million to pay the contractor. However, if we take into account the 10 per cent charge for the liability period, we will not even be required to pay anything to the contractor.

Mr Speaker, as Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa is aware, what has delayed the opening of that school is the challenge of the accessibility of the road going to Nakanyaa in Nalikwanda Constituency, which I have shared on several occasions from the time I visited the school. Due to accessibility challenges, even transporting materials for the school project has been very difficult for the contractor because there is no road to talk about.

Mr Speaker, just like I have said, the only issue that has remained in terms of operationalising that school is the installation of a generator, which we have requested the contractor to do. The contractor I am talking about is one of the largest Chinese contractors in Zambia. So, the issue of acquiring a generator is not a big challenge for this contractor. Therefore, between now and May, 2016, we will work closely with the contractor to ensure that the generator is installed.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, Nakanyaa Secondary School in Nalikwanda …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: We have had a flurry of points of order today. Anyway, …

Dr Musokotwane: Should I continue or …

Mr Speaker: Let me hear what he has to say. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, through the hon. Minister of Justice, used to come to this House to inform us on the several commissions that it constituted when it came into power. However, the Government, which is at the end of its tenure, has remained mute on the Rodger Chongwe Commission of Inquiry that was investigating the massacres that happened in Mongu and other related issues. This is the last session of this Parliament, but we have not received a report or anything that indicates what that commission did after using taxpayers’ money. Is the PF Government, therefore, in order to continue being mute about this matter until this House is dissolved? 

I seek your serious ruling, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is tailored on the same lines as the earlier one. File an urgent question. Let me seize this opportunity to indicate that there could be many other similar issues to the ones which the hon. Member for Senanga has raised. I think the most appropriate thing you can do, if any other hon. Members have such issues in mind, is to file questions. That is the way we are going to proceed. So, I can give this notice in advance. Whether you do it orally on the Floor, we will end up there, but we can save time if you simply sent a question to the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia. We are able to assess whether it is urgent or not. If we have outstanding business, it is only proper and fair that all business is wound up before the House dissolves. Indeed, the life of this Parliament is shortly coming to an end and, I think, we need to close our business properly.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in responding to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa regarding the delay in completing the construction of Nakanyaa Secondary School, the hon. Minister cited difficulties in delivering materials to the site because of sandy feeder roads. The hon. Minister who just responded found the school almost complete when he came to this ministry. The school was at that stage from works which were done in three years. However, after five years, the current Government has failed to even deliver a generator, which is not heavy. 

Clearly, there must be another more important reason for delaying the completion of Nakanyaa Secondary School. Therefore, can the hon. Minister confirm that it has been the policy of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to deliberately delay the completion of all the high schools that were started in the Western Province in the last five years. The explanation he has given about the presence of sandy roads is clearly not plausible.

 Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we do not have a policy to delay projects and Hon. Dr Musokotwane is aware about that. In fact, for me, the gene of the Patriotic Front (PF), the party I belong to, is its ability to execute projects. The hon. Member comes from the Western Province and he is aware that if the PF had no ability to implement projects, one of the most expensive projects in that province, which is the Mongu/Kalabo Road, would not have been finished.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: I am sure that Hon. Dr Musokotwane is aware about the PF’s ability to implement projects.

Hon. Dr Musokotwane, what is in the gene for this Government called the PF is its ability to implement projects. 

Mr Speaker, like I said, had it not been for bad roads, the Nakanya School Project would have been completed by now. I want to demonstrate that out of K36 million, which was the value of the project, …

Mr Mwila: Eh.

Mr Mabumba: ... K35 million has been paid.

Mr Mwila: That is right.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, when you look at Sikongo, which is in Sikongo District, I am saying this because the hon. Member talked about the Western Province, that project, which is also a secondary school, was valued at K35 million and, so far, K34 million has been paid. This means that the project is almost complete like many other projects in that province such as the one in Mayukwayukwa, which has already been opened.

Dr Musokotwane: What about Libonda?

Mr Mabumba: I know about Libonda and this is why you are trying to go round in circles. We have had challenges regarding Libonda Secondary School, but we have already paid K17 million of the K36 million for the project. I understand your frustrations about that project at Libonda, but I am sure we will be able to deal with it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Ema Minister aba.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, K1 million balance is yet to be paid to the contractor, procurement of a generator and its delivery and also a bad road are the encumbrances to getting this school opened. On behalf of the people of Nalikwanda, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if he could give some comfort to them, seeing that this Parliament’s life is coming to an end. Is it possible that this generator will be delivered and the road made passable so that the children in that constituency can also get an education?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, yes, I can provide that assurance, given what Hon. Nkombo has said. For me, I think the major drawback is the generator. In my earlier answer, I indicated that we have spoken to the contractor and within the provision of the contract between the ministry and the contractor, the contractor is supposed to provide the generator.

Mr Speaker, like I said, we will work with the contractor so that before the end of this month, we have that generator supplied to the school and installed.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, clearly, there is light at the end of the tunnel. In his answer, the hon. Minister indicated that the school is scheduled to be opened by the end of this month. Can I find out whether the teaching and learning prerequisites will be made available? By prerequisites, I mean desks, books, beddings, as this is going to be a boarding school, and, of course, teachers. Will these aspects that contribute to proper education be available by May, 2016?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we have been supplying mattresses to boarding secondary schools and teachers have already been deployed. It is just a question of operationalisation of that school that is remaining.

I thank you, Sir.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the gene of the Patriotic Front (PF) is to complete …

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I want Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha to complete his question.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: ... school projects that have been started. Can the hon. Minister confirm that he has finished working on the secondary schools in Keembe Constituency in Chiyuni and Chinyongola.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you able to have this information at the tip of your fingers?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, what I know is that the major project in the hon. Member’s constituency, which is Kafushi Secondary School, is operational. I know that there are other schools which we are upgrading and most of these projects are ongoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I will not allow any further points of order.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, Nakanyaa is a girls’ boarding school. I recall that in one of my first debates, five years ago when I came to the House, I bemoaned the lack of a girls’ boarding secondary school in the Western Province, which is the only province that does not have a girls’ boarding school. I remember giving a list of girls’ boarding secondary schools province by province. 

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) found some construction going on at Nakanyaa Girls’ Secondary School and was expected to complete the construction. However, the hon. Minister is giving challenges of access to the school as one of the reasons the school has not been completed, five years after coming into power. May I find out if the challenge of access has been addressed because Nakanyaa, being a girls boarding school, will not only cater for the people around Nakanyaa, but also from as far as Nangili in Luena, Simaa and even Sikongo. If the issue of access has not been addressed, how is the operationalisation going to be effected if it cannot admit girls from far-flung areas. How will these pupils get to the school?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, as regards accessibility, Hon. Imenda is aware that the Government bought multi-million dollar equipment under the Zambia National Service (ZNS). I am sure the provincial leadership in the Western Province should be able to prioritise that road because the issue of accessibility is key to the operationalisation of that school. We have been discussing with the provincial leadership to prioritise that road so that the school can be opened.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I always enjoy the responses given by the hon. Deputy Minister of General Education. However, I have been forced to find out why he boasted following what Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa said regarding whether it was the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s plan to delay the completion of projects. In the same line with Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha on the ability to complete the plans in five years, what has been done about the boarding schools in Ikeleng’i? After five years, at what levels are the boarding schools, if the PF Government has the ability to complete projects?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I always want to be sincere and, Hon. Muchima and I have had a lot of interaction regarding his school in Ikeleng’i. In fact, because of his questions, I decided to visit that project. Regrettably, as he has said, I found that there was no progress being made on the project simply because the contractor who had been contracted to work on this project in Ikeleng’i had two projects running at the same time, one in Chama and another in Ikeleng’i. However, in order to allow the contractor to manage those two projects, we decided to subcontract the project which he had in Chama with a view to help him concentrate on the Ikeleng’i project. I am aware that the contractor still has a number of challenges. Going forward, we need to sit down with the contractor. It is not for me to make a decision because the contractor also has to decide, working together with the ministry, whether to subcontract the Ikeleng’i project as well.

I thank you, Sir.

_______________ 

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE COURT OF APPEAL, 2016

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Court of Appeal Bill, 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 27th April, 2016.

Thank you.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Constitutional Court Bill, 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 27th April, 2016.

Thank you.

___________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON YOUTH AND SPORT

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Youth Empowerment Programme of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 6th April, 2016.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded? 

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as contained in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to consider the Report of the Auditor-General on the Youth Empowerment Programme of the Ministry of Youth Sport and Child Development.

Mr Speaker, in order to appreciate the observations and recommendations made in the Auditor-General’s Performance Audit, your Committee sought oral and written submissions from relevant stakeholders which included the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development. 

Mr Speaker, since the hon. Members are privy to the contents of the Committee’s report, I will restrict my comments to a few salient issues. 

Mr Speaker, from the outset, allow me to commend the Office of the Auditor-General for conducting this performance audit on the Youth Development Fund (YDF). Suffice to add that this is the first time your Committee has considered a performance audit report in the life of this Parliament.

Mr Speaker, before I move to the specific issues in the report, I would like to express your Committee’s view that the undertaking by the Government to create employment and empower the youth is one that requires concerted effort of all relevant public entities. Your Committee contends that strengthening the administration of the YDF would enhance the effectiveness of the fund and its impact on youth employment and enterprise development. 

Mr Speaker, the Auditor-General recommended that the ministry implements the provisions of the YDF guidelines which require training and mentorship to be given periodically during the tenure of the loan. The need for added value of extended training or mentorship should be considered on a case-by-case basis in order to maximise the available resources. It is expected that youth who lack business know-how will be attached to mentors for guidance, thereby, increasing the probability of success in their businesses.

Sir, in addition, the Auditor-General recommended that the ministry develops clusters of the loan categories so that training programmes are tailored according to the industry or sector in which the loan is obtained.

Sir, some stakeholders who submitted before your Committee were of the view that while most youth had innovative ideas and the necessary determination to see those ideas come to fruition, they, however, lack the skills and experience necessary to run successful and sustainable businesses. Consequently, despite the viability of their innovations, often times, the businesses failed.

Sir, in light of the above, stakeholders recommended that the mentorship programme be developed and implemented in collaboration with the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) which have regular interaction with business houses and local entrepreneurs nationwide. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government must ensure that priority of training as mentorship to beneficiaries of the YDF be given to the youth with existing businesses as this will be an added advantage of experience in business management. In addition, the Government must initiate a robust mentorship training programme paying specific attention to the different sectors in which the loan is given. 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the high rate of default of the YDF, the Auditor-General recommended that the ministry should revise the guidelines governing the fund so that the matters relating to loan default are addressed and punitive measures put in place. In addition, there is a need to consider revising the role of the loan guarantors in the YDF guidelines so that they could be used to help in achieving the objectives of the fund.

Mr Speaker, stakeholders informed your Committee that in implementing the recommendation, it would be necessary to have comprehensive credit and risk policy and procedure manuals present in institutions with similar lending mandates. 

 Furthermore, the institutional framework around the fund must be reviewed and strengthened. There is a need to recruit officers skilled in credit and risk management, debt collection and project appraisal. The Committee recommends, as a matter of extreme urgency, that the Government revises the YDF guidelines to include the following:

(i)    the roles of the guarantor should be revised to include making follow-ups to ensure that the loan is paid back in time and also that the guarantor’s roles are fully spelled out;

(ii)    the ministry must identify a different institution with the necessary micro-credit management expertise to administer the fund. The ministry can play a supervisory role;

(iii)    the guidelines must also include a provision for eligible youth organisations to register with the National Youth Development Council as a prerequisite, as promulgated in Section 15 of the National Youth Development Council Act. This will not only result in compliance with the statutory requirement to register with the National Youth Development Council, but also answer the challenges raised in the Auditor-General’s Report on the Failure to locate defaulting beneficiaries; and 

(iv)    monitoring and evaluation mechanisms must be decentralised and the performance of the beneficiaries of the YDF be followed up periodically to ensure that the beneficiaries are operating in accordance with the loan repayment procedure. The guidelines should also engage other stakeholders such as councils and district commissioners to form part of the recovery teams. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to thank all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and contributed to the scrutinising process of the report. My gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee. I also wish to express your Committee’s gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for according it the opportunity to scrutinise the Auditor-General’s Report on the Youth Empowerment Programme. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later? 

Mr Chungu: Now, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee. My comments will be restricted to matters that the mover has not highlighted. 

Sir, the Auditor-General recommended that the ministry should consider creating a data base of all Youth Development Fund (YDF) beneficiaries, which must be regularly updated and verified during the monitoring exercise. The exercise should include issuance of reminders for the beneficiaries whose repayments are due. The reports from such exercises should include assessment of the performance of various projects as well as specific recommendations on how to improve their implementation. It will suffice to mention that most stakeholders supported this recommendation on the need for a data base to facilitate more effective loan tracking. They contended that the data base should take this form of suitable loan management software created in an environment that allowed for data base integrity and automation of loan book analytical requirements. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government ensures that the data base is decentralised to provinces in order to ease follow ups. Furthermore, a clear decentralised monitoring and evaluation mechanism of the performance of the beneficiaries and repayment procedure must be put in place. 

Mr Speaker, another recommendation that the Auditor-General made was with respect to the revision of the guidelines to also address risk profiling of issuance of loans to manage the risk of default within tolerable levels. Stakeholders informed your Committee that a system of risk profiling would significantly reduce the default rate as there would be better determination of projects that were viable from a business sense and the credit worthiness of the beneficiaries. Your Committee observed that the absence of risk profiling in the guidelines of the YDF has contributed to the poor recovery rate of below 20 per cent. Your Committee strongly recommends that in addition to the risk profiling being undertaken by the ministry, the guidelines must also provide for mandatory direct supply of goods and services to the duly identified suppliers of goods and services. This will undoubtedly curb abuse and diversion of funds from the intended projects. Your Committee is hopeful that the observations and recommendations contained in your report will help improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the YDF. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to thank you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. 

I thank you, Sir. 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to this debate. 

Sir, let me begin by thanking the Committee on Youth and Sport for the valuable report it has produced. As a ministry, we have gone through the report and found it very helpful. We think that your Committee has done a great job that will help us really improve the operations of the Youth Development Fund (YDF). 

Mr Speaker, I will go to a few specific issues highlighted in the report. The ministry has taken note of your Committee’s recommendation to prioritise training and mentorship to youth beneficiaries with already existing businesses. We agree that mentorship is very important. We will not give money to young people and then just let them fend for themselves. They need business mentorship. This is very important. 

Sir, in order to address the issue of empowerment and employment, as enshrined in the 2015 National Youth Policy and the Action Plan for Youth Empowerment and Employment, it is imperative to strike a balance between youth beneficiaries with existing businesses and youth beneficiaries intending to start businesses. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken note of your Committee’s recommendation that the ministry ensures that collaboration among Government ministries and departments covers all critical stages from loan issuance to market linkages. This would greatly increase chances of youth business success and profitability, which would, in turn, improve loan repayment rates. We, as a Government, are in total agreement with this and have actually made some strides in this direction. In our action plan, we have said that the Government should give up to 20 per cent of Public Service-related businesses to young people who have been funded under the YDF or the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). We know that we should be the one to give them the money that should, in turn, give them business support. We have noted that the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry has also preserved some businesses in this country for Zambians, such as block-making, quarrying, Public Service transportation and chicken rearing. This is also being done in a bid to motivate young entrepreneurs who have been funded under the YDF and the CEEC. 

Sir, we have also noted your Committee’s recommendation that we adopt the Zambia Development Agency Business Linkage Programme of linking youth entrepreneurs to business opportunities from larger corporations in order to foster sustainability of youth-led enterprises, and include the labour compliance module as part of the basic skills training to the youth beneficiaries in order to improve adherence to labour laws. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken note of the Committee’s recommendation that the ministry ensures that the data base for beneficiaries is decentralised. The august House may wish to note that this feature has already been imbedded in the data base, which provides links to the provincial offices to input and access information through a web link as provided under the e-Governance Programme. 

Further, the august House may wish to know that the Draft Monitoring and Evaluation Framework has taken into account the provision of decentralised monitoring and evaluation mechanism in order to closely monitor the performance of beneficiaries, including loan repayments. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry has also taken note of your Committee’s recommendation that it clearly spells out the roles of the guarantor, including that of making follow ups, to ensure that the loans are paid back within the stipulated period of time.

Sir, the ministry will also identify a different institution with the necessary micro-credit facility to manage the fund. This august House may wish to note that the ministry has made progress in graduating the fund to a Youth Enterprise Financing Development Limited. Currently, the ministry has finalised a Cabinet Memorandum on the establishment of the institution to be tabled for consideration by the Cabinet. It is envisaged that once operational, the institution will manage the fund effectively and efficiently. 

Mr Speaker, we know that currently, young people think that ni va Boma, meaning these funds belong to the Government and, therefore, they can get away with abusing them. However, if we create, within the Government, a micro-financing institution that will take this work seriously, it will make follow-ups and ensure that we enhance recoveries. 

Sir, your Committee further recommended that the ministry must include a provision for eligible youth organisations to register with the National Youth Development Council, as a prerequisite for accessing the YDF. The ministry has taken note of this recommendation. 

The last recommendation is that we should include stakeholders such as councils and district commissioners in monitoring and evaluating the fund. This august House may wish to note that the Decentralised Monitoring and Evaluation Framework for the ministry provides for the involvement of the monitoring and evaluation sub-committees of the Provincial Development Co-ordinating Committees (PDCC) and the District Development Co-ordinating Committees (DDCC). 

Mr Speaker, to this effect, we had a workshop with all district administrators, council secretaries and Town Clerks in Ndola to orient them on how they could help us monitor this fund in an integrated manner. For example, when they go to see a bridge that has collapsed somewhere and have a bit of time on their hands, they can also visit a youth group that borrowed from this fund. So, they do not need special funding to monitor these youth groups. They could integrate monitoring these youth groups into their existing programmes. We think that this will be a success and hope to see it succeed. However, we are yet to see its positive impact.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken note of your Committee’s recommendation to provide for mandatory direct supply of goods and services to duly identified suppliers of goods and services to the YDF beneficiaries. However, the House may wish to note that the ministry is already using this approach under the implementation of the Action Plan for Youth Employment and Empowerment “Quick Win” Projects. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude by thanking your Committee for the elaborate and well-thought-out report whose recommendations will go a long way in improving the effectiveness and efficiency of the YDF. Indeed, we find this report valuable and will make use of it in seeing to it that the YDF improves. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Aka musungu ka mu PF!

Laughter 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the whole House for supporting this report. I would also like to thank the Government for responding positively to the report and thank it for this attitude.
 
Sir, on behalf of your Committee, I thank you. 

Question put and agreed to. 

____ 

BILLS

SECONDING READING 

THE PARLIAMENTARY SERVICE BILL, 2016

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. 

Sir, as the House is aware, following the amendment to the Constitution of Zambia Act, Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia, by the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016, Articles 217(1) and 218(1) established the Parliamentary Service and the Parliamentary Service Commission, respectively. 

The Parliamentary Service Bill, therefore, provides for the functions of the Parliamentary Service and the Parliamentary Service Commission; the membership; functions, operations, and the financial management of the commission. The Bill further provides for the transfer of staff of the National Assembly to the Parliamentary Service Commission and continuation of their service under the commission; and other matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing. 

Therefore, Sir, the Bill before the House is principally seeking to bring into effect the provisions of Articles 217(2) and 218(2)(f) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016, which provides that these matters shall be as prescribed. 

Mr Speaker, this Bill is straightforward and I urge all hon. Members to support it. 

Sir, I beg to move. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided for in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Parliamentary Service Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 4 of 2016. In order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders. 

Sir, as you are aware, the Parliamentary Service Bill was initiated by the National Assembly in order to conform to the recently enacted Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016. As part of the preparation process, your Committee on Reforms and Modernisation was tasked to scrutinise the Draft Bill before it was referred to the Standing Orders Committee for approval.  

Mr Speaker, Article 217 of the Constitution of Zambia establishes the Parliamentary Service. In addition, Article 218 establishes the Parliamentary Service Commission. Pursuant to Article 217, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and its staff and that of the Parliamentary Service Commission are now officers in the Parliamentary Service. Further, the Clerk of the National Assembly and the employees of the National Assembly shall be appointed by the Parliamentary Service Commission. 

Sir, while generally supporting the Bill, your Committee has a few concerns, some of which I will now deal with.

Mr Speaker, Clause 5(3) of the Bill provides that the Parliamentary Service may delegate to the Clerk of the National Assembly certain functions necessary for the management of the Parliamentary Service. However, Clause 5 designates the Clerk of the National Assembly, as the Chief Executive Officer of the Parliamentary Service. It further allows the Parliamentary Service to delegate its functions to the management of the service to the Clerk of the National Assembly. Your Committee is concerned about that. This provision means that the Parliamentary Service will have powers to delegate functions to its own Chief Executive Officer, as opposed to the Parliamentary Service Commission, which is the appointing authority. In light of this, your Committee recommends that the Clause should, instead, provide power to the Parliamentary Service Commission to delegate functions to the Clerk of the National Assembly.

Sir, another issue of concern is Clause 11, which provides that the commission shall comprise part time commissioners. However, the term of office for the commissioners is not stated. Your Committee recommends that the term of office for the commissioners be five years, in line with the tenure of office for hon. Members of Parliament. Related to this, your Committee is concerned that Clause 11(1)(e) provides for the National Assembly to appoint five members of the Commission, that is, three members nominated by the political party in the Government and two members nominated by the Opposition political parties holding seats in the National Assembly. These members will be nominated by the political parties represented in the House. Therefore, there is no need for them to be appointed by the House. These members should be appointed by the Speaker on recommendation from the concerned political parties, especially in light of the provisions which provides the power to revoke the appointments of the Speaker. 

Sir, your Committee recommends that since members of the commission will be from among Members of the National Assembly, the Bill should specifically provide for this. In view of that, your Committee is of the opinion that it would be more appropriate for such members to be appointed by the Speaker on recommendations from the concerned political parties, especially in light of the provision under Clause 11(3)(b), which provides the power to revoke the appointments of the Speaker. It is your Committee’s expectation that this Bill will be supported by the House as it is non-contentious.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I express your Committee’s gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise the Parliamentary Service Bill, N.A.B No. 4 of 2016. Your Committee also thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. Your Committee is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the House for its support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 21st April, 2016.

THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (POWERS AND PRIVILEGES) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia was first enacted sixty years ago, in 1956, by the Northern Rhodesia Legislative Council. The Act defines the powers, privileges and immunities of the National Assembly. Over the years, the Act has undergone various amendments. It was last amended twenty-two years ago, in 1994. Therefore, due to the passage of time, it has become necessary to amend the Act so as to update it. 

Mr Speaker, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Bill, 2016, that is before this august House, seeks to repeal obsolete provisions, revise the procedures of the National Assembly for obtaining evidence, enhance the disciplinary powers of the National Assembly over its Members and provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing. In this regard, the Bill seeks to strengthen the powers, privileges and immunities of the National Assembly. 

 Sir, as hon. Members are aware, the powers, privileges and immunities granted to the National Assembly, under the principal Act, are necessary because they enable this august House and individual Members to perform their representative function effectively and efficiently. Therefore, the Bill is progressive, straight forward and, accordingly, I recommend it to the House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, once again, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to stand on the Floor of this House. In accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scruitinise the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill, N. A. B., No. 5 of 2016.

Sir, in order to acquaint itself with the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders, with whom your Committee had very informative interactions. 

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia was enacted in 1956 and was last amended in 1994. The Act defines the powers, privileges and immunities of the National Assembly. However, due to the passage of time, it has become necessary to amend the Act in order to update it.

Sir, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill amends the principal Act in order to strengthen the powers, privileges and immunities of the National Assembly to repeal obsolete provisions, to revise the procedures for obtaining evidence by the National Assembly and to enhance the disciplinary powers of the National Assembly. 

Sir, as you are aware, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill was initiated by the National Assembly. As part of the preparation process, your Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services was tasked to scrutinise the Draft Bill before it was referred to the Standing Orders Committee for approval.

Mr Speaker, the objects of this Bill are to revise the procedures for obtaining evide-*nce by the National Assembly and to enhance the disciplinary powers of the National Assembly over its Members. 

Mr Speaker, while your Committee welcomes the amendments of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, it is proposed that Clause 9(4) be amended to delete the distance of 8 km specified in the Bill. Your Committee finds Clause 28(2), which provides that the Speaker shall, on the resolution of the Assembly, suspend a Member from the Assembly for such a period as the Assembly determines harsh. It recommends that the period of suspension of a Member of Parliament be specified to not exceed one month.

Mr Speaker, as I end, on behalf of your Committee, I wish to express our gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill, No. 5 of 2016. Your Committee also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support it rendered throughout its deliberations. It is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, in supporting your Committee’s report, I will be very brief. It has been a long time since we amended what governs Business in this House. With changing times, I think, it is appropriate that such amendments are moved.  

Sir, secondly, on the issue of disciplining Members of this House, as I agree with your Committee, I am of the view that the purpose of discipline need not always be punitive. If that is agreed upon, then, the time for the disciplined Member to reflect should also be kept to the barest minimum. Therefore, I do agree that the issue of indefinite suspension be amended further. There must be a specified time. 

Mr Speaker, if a Member is barred from participating in the affairs of the House, it translates into him/her being denied freedom to exercise what the electorate sent him/her to do in the House. Therefore, I do agree with the proposal by your Committee that the period for discipline be to the barest minimum. I, therefore, suggest that it should be a month or even less. 

Sir, lastly, I wish to state that, indeed, the rest of the recommendations are good in the sense that the Speaker, being the ultimate authority, should be the one to look into the affairs of the entire institution.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, in supporting this Bill, I want to say one or two things. It is a rare opportunity to have this Bill revised. During the period that I have been in this House, I have observed that there are certain gaps that exist that need to be taken care of in the revised Bill. I have taken note of the recommendations of your Committee, which are very good. On one hand, we are only talking about discipline, but on the other hand, there are other issues, which have been left hanging for some time, that need to be addressed. 

Mr Speaker, I am aware that we do not debate ourselves, but there are other burning issues that, I think, needed to come to light. This is the only time that these issues are supposed to be discussed. First and foremost, when you look at the Speaker’s role, you will find that it is well-defined. Things such as the contractual terms are well articulated. With regard to Members of Parliament, their conditions of service, such as where they live and what they eat and contractual terms are left hanging. I thought that when we talk about powers and privileges, issues of an administrative nature should be included so that the hon. Members are fully acquainted with what pertains to their welfare as well. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but I do not know if there is any hon. Member of Parliament in this House who has ever signed a contract after being elected to this House. 

Mr Speaker, I am talking about powers and privileges …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Before you go any further, this is not the context in which those issues you are raising are addressed, unfortunately. There is another instrument. So, your debate, in that sense, unfortunately, is misplaced. It is out of context.

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for the guidance. I wanted to connect my debate to administrative issues.

Mr Speaker: You have connected it to something irrelevant.

Interruptions 

 Mr Speaker: Order!

You may continue. 

 Mr Muchima: Be honourable, hon. Members. 

Sir, since you have guided me, I wish to support the revision of the Bill so that it is taken on board. Given that we have land issues, I thought that would be connected to administration.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I will be very brief because I only have one issue to talk about. I do not know whether it is in context, as you have guided. However, should it be out of context, you can still guide.

Sir, as we discuss the powers and privileges of the National Assembly and hon. Members, there is one issue that is burning in my mind. The fact is that when hon. Members of Parliament are elected, they are supposed to be in this House for five years. For example, the current Assembly came into being on 20th September, 2011, therefore, I would like to believe that the five year-term is supposed to end on 19th September, 2016. However, the new Constitution has curtailed our tenure of office even further. In the context of the prevailing law, the emoluments of hon. Members of Parliament …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Let me guide you, hon. Member. The term ‘privilege’ in the context of this instrument has a different meaning. It does not refer to our welfare. About two or three years ago, I remember explaining this point in one of my rulings. It has a special meaning in the sense that the privileges that we are concerned with here are, for instance, freedom of expression, freedom from arrests or how service of process from court is served on you, as hon. Members. 

Again, the specific issue you are raising is governed by two other instruments. For instance, the Constitution, which deals with the duration of our term of office. I know where you are coming from, but I am dealing with that issue administratively because it is a constitutional one. The question of the computation of gratuity is specifically provided in another instrument. It is not the instrument under consideration. Again, like your colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i, your argument is misplaced.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for your guidance. Based on the elements you have mentioned you are looking at, I rest my case.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I would like to express my profound gratitude to all those who have debated and, indeed, to the whole House for the unanimous support.

 Sir, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 21st April, 2016.

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Works and Supply, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.
_____

The House adjourned at 1810 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 20th April, 2016.