Debates - Wednesday, 19th November, 2014

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Wednesday, 19th November, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






231.    Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art when the Government would construct decent houses for game scouts and other officers at the following places in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Chanjuzi;

(b)    Changachanga; and 

(c)    Chakolwa.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr Evans): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), has prioritised infrastructure development as key to the management of game management areas (GMAs) and national parks. In this regard, the Government, through ZAWA, had, in the 2014 Budget, planned to spend a total sum of K65,383,371.50 to construct houses for game scouts and other staff throughout the country. The programme will focus on areas which include Chanjuzi, Changachanga and Chakolwa in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency. The implementation of this programme has stalled due to the lack of funds.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, now that we are running into the Budget for 2015 and only have a few weeks before the year ends, is the hon. Minister still optimistic that money will be available and the project will start this year?

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, the fact that, that money was budgeted for under this year’s Budget means that it will be released towards the end of the year and construction will start. 

I thank you, Sir. 


232    Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the tarring of Nchelenge/Mununga/Kaputa via Chienge Road would commence;

(b)    what had caused the delay in the commencing of the road works;

(c)    which contractor was engaged to tar the road; and 

(d)    whether the project included the reconstruction of the Mununga/Kalungwishi Bridge.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the Nchelenge/Mununga/Kaputa via Chienge Road has been divided into two lots:

Lot 1: Nchelenge to Cheinge (126 km)

Lot 1 was awarded to Sino Hydro Zambia Limited at a total contract sum of K354,290,683.90. The contract is awaiting clearance from the Attorney-General’s Office. It is anticipated that the contract will be finalised by mid December 2014. Works are scheduled to commence thereafter.

Lot 2: The Upgrading of Chienge/Kaputa 78.1 km road (U2) and Luchinda Road D77 (27.6 km) with 10 km selected urban roads in Kaputa, Luapula Province

Sir, the upgrading of 78.1 km of the Chienge/Kaputa Road (U2) and Luchinda Road (D77) (27.6km) with 10 km selected urban roads in Kaputa, Luapula Province, was awarded to Messrs China Henan International Corporation and Copperfield Mining Services at a sum of K500,000,000.00 on July 15, 2014 and is scheduled to be completed by December 31, 2016.

Sir, the delay was as a result of an appeal during the procurement process by one of the bidders (Messrs Swift Cargo Services). The contractor for Lot 1 is Sino Hydro Zambia Limited and the contractor for Lot 2 is Messrs China Henan International Corporation and Copperfield Mining Services. The construction of the bridge is included in the Lot 1 under the section from Nchelenge to Chienge. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, since this project has not commenced and the rains have started, is there a possibility that there could be urgent patch-up works carried out on the road to ensure that vehicles continue to service the area during the rainy season?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, we will try to send engineers so that they can look at the structure of the road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that only companies from China are working on the road in question. Were there any local companies which submitted bids for the project? 

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, although that is a new question, Lot 2 is not only being worked on by Chinese companies. It will also be worked on by Copperfield Mining Services which is a Zambian company.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I heard that an appeal by one of the bidders caused a delay. According to what I know, this bidder should have automatically been disqualified. Why was the bidder not disqualified?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the bidder lost the case after making an appeal. We then went for the bidder that was competitive on the list.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to formulate a policy that will enable local communities, in collaboration with the Government, to secure heritage sites.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, a heritage site is a location where pieces of political, military, cultural or social history have been preserved. These sites are usually protected by law. A heritage site may be any building, landscape, site or structure that is of a local, regional or national significance. It may be ancient, cultural or natural.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is endowed with varied cultural heritage resources, which include a wealth of heritage buildings from the pre-colonial and colonial periods in various traditional and other architectural styles. In addition, the country has ancient ruins, rock art sites, historic sites, cultural landscapes, historic towns and archaeological sites. Further, the country has natural heritage sites such as hot springs, fossil forests and waterfalls. Some of these have dual significance, that is, from the natural and cultural heritage point of view, such as the Victoria Falls.

Sir, the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC) is the major custodian of Zambia’s immovable heritage. The NHCC indicates that there are over 3,000 heritage sites in Zambia. The overwhelming majority of these are archeological sites. The heritage sites in Zambia located across the country have remained undeveloped for a number of reasons. One such reason amongst many is that the Government has held on to these sites, and has not allowed citizens, communities or investors to develop such national heritage sites on behalf of the Government. This scenario has led to nothing being done to conserve these sites.

Mr Speaker, as a result of this, these heritage sites continue to be vandalised by unknown people. Vandalism has proved to be another big threat to the conservation of these sites, particularly, in urban centres. In many cases, unjustified damage has been done to heritage sites by people, where security has been seen to be lacking. Some people have taken part in ransacking heritage sites by removing valuable items such as fossil remains and building elements from the unoccupied historical buildings.

Sir, Chinyunyu Hot Springs in my constituency are used for various purposes such as ritual worship or as a dumpsite for still born babies. Sometimes hot spring surroundings are used as playgrounds or even as toilets.

Mr Speaker, other obvious examples are the Chirundu Fossil Forest Site in southern Zambia, Niamkolo National Monument at Mpulungu Harbour in Northern Zambia and Nsalu Caves in Chitambo. The threats to our heritage sites are so real that measures should be taken to curb them so that our sites can be protected for posterity.

Sir, another major threat to the survival of these heritage sites are natural processes. Although it is very difficult to predict these natural disasters, little is done to repair the heritage sites when damage is caused. For instance, termites present a real danger to timber elements or heritage buildings through infestation. Most historic buildings in urban and suburb centres have been abandoned and eventually, deteriorate after heavy termite attacks.

Mr Speaker, sadly, even traditional methods or our cultural methods of preservation of timber against termite attacks have often been ignored in preference to modern chemical treatments. Mostly, these chemicals call for spot treatment of infested elements. Unfortunately, it is often impossible to reach all the infested parts, especially those that are concealed. Thus, we lose because we have not been able to assist the community to preserve their heritage sites.

Importance of these Sites

Mr Speaker, the importance of these sites cannot be overemphasised. Heritage sites are part of our culture and provide a platform for tourism for both local and foreign tourists. As a sector of activity through tangible and intangible heritage creative industries and various forms of artistic expressions, culture is a powerful contributor to sustainable economic development, social stability and environmental protection.

Sir, in December, 2010, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution on culture and  development (A/C.2/65/L.50) which emphasises the important contribution of culture to sustainable development and for the achievement of national and international development objectives including the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). This is an indication of how important and valuable the heritage sites are.

Improved Protection of Cultural and Natural Heritage by the Local Community    

Mr Speaker, the conservation and protection of heritage sites is a global problem. In September, 2003, a conference of national trust was held in Edinburgh and very important concerns and resolutions were raised. Among them, were the following:

(a)    governments throughout the world at both national and local levels should give greater recognition to the benefits arising from the conservation of culture and natural heritage sites, both to the present and future generations. Therefore, the conservation of heritage sites should be given a higher political and financial priority in the determination of national and local policies using resources more efficiently and effectively;

(b)    non-governmental organisations (NGOs) around the world should raise their efforts to halt the loss of both culture and natural heritage sites at national and local levels;

(c)    both the Government and communities should work together more closely to address the problem of the progressive loss of culture and natural heritage, by developing joint initiatives both to raise public understanding and concern as well as to build capacity at national and local levels; and
(d)    the state parties to the World Heritage Convention should reinforce their commitment to protect our heritage in all its diversity as an instrument for sustainable development of all societies through dialogue and mutual understanding.

Sir, even the international community acknowledges the need to involve local communities in the conservation of heritage sites. These concerns apply to the Zambian heritage sites. If the Government does not take action now, the nation risks losing its cultural and natural heritage. The discussion of having local communities brought on board has been a subject of discussion at several forums.

Mr Speaker, the World Heritage Committee at its 31st Session in 2007 adopted a fifth ‘C’ for communities to add to the four ‘Cs’ on the world heritage strategic objectives. The other four ‘Cs’ as adopted in 2002 stood for credibility, conservation, capacity-building and communication. There is a need for the people within chiefdoms and villages near these heritage sites to be given the opportunity to manage them. If managed by communities, they are protected and developed.

   Sir, the 2012 United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) report states that the World Heritage Committee is increasingly recognising sites which are managed by local communities and indigenous people. The World Heritage Committee recognises the importance of having the local community manage heritage sites. One such case is the Kayas, a series of eleven forest areas along 200 km of the Kenyan coast. The property is in existence because the communities are protecting these forests. The community owns this natural resource. In Zambia, we could have had many heritage sites listed if the sites were protected and well managed by local communities, and this may, in the long run, boost our tourist potential.

Mr Speaker, heritage sites are better managed by local communities and citizens while …

Mr Sichinga entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … the Government should be there to oversee the running of these sites. Research conducted in most areas …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Bashi Nono.


The Speaker: Let us have some order!

Mr Chipungu: … where heritage sites are located shows that involving local communities makes the community more aware of the importance of conserving these sites for the global community. In the 2013 UNESCO World Heritage Report, it is noted that the promotion of active involvement of local communities in the management of heritage sites reduces critical human-induced threats to promoted areas such as vandalism, forest fires and illegal logging.

Sir, in addition, the local community is able to benefit from the revenue derived from the heritage site only if it manages it. This revenue realised can be used to support local infrastructure development such as the maintenance of social amenities like schools, clinics and water facilities. The community can only benefit directly from the proceeds if they are the ones who manage and run the sites. The benefits are important to ensure that the local communities benefit in development terms and also make them feel a sense of ownership of the heritage site.

Further, Mr Speaker, if the local communities or citizens are given ownership of such resources, they feel obliged to do anything to conserve them. Research has shown that when local communities are given the mandate to manage any heritage site within their vicinity, it encourages them to conserve that resource.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me reiterate that heritage sites, which may either be natural or cultural, require strategic conservation, preservation and management. The local communities in the villages are best positioned to manage them. The Government should partner with the local community which should have ownership rights. Thus, the Government should offer a supervisory role. The conservation and management of the heritage and protected resources come with a number of challenges for the Government such as encroachment, vandalism and unsustainable utilisation. Looking at these challenges and many not mentioned here, the major contributors to those challenges is the local community because they live there. It is for this reason that I urge the Government to consider empowering its citizens and communities to partner with the Government to develop national heritage sites located in their areas.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the secorder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Hamudulu: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion on urging the Government to consider empowering its citizens and communities to partner with the Government to develop national heritage sites located in their areas.

Sir, allow me in the first instance to thank the mover of the Motion, Mr Kenneth Chipungu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Rufunsa Constituency, for ably moving this non-controversial Motion.

Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, non-controversial because heritage sites are of national importance and the benefits thereof cut across ethnicity and generations. When heritage sites are properly taken care of, the benefits do not only accrue to people across generations, but the very existence of heritage sites also helps in defining the nation and the cultures of its people.

Sir, the mover of the Motion has ably highlighted the benefits of conserving and protecting heritage sites. It is undeniable that at both global and national levels, conserved and protected heritage sites provide tangible contributions to national incomes through tourism. Heritage tourism is a branch of tourism oriented towards the cultural heritage of the locations where the tourism occurs.

   Sir, the United States National Trust for Historic Preservation defines heritage tourism as:

“Travelling to experience the places, artifacts and activities that authentically represent the stories and people of the past. Heritage tourism can include cultural, historic and natural resources.”

Mr Speaker, I do not understand what the problem in Zambia is. If I am to use the definition of heritage tourism, which I have just alluded to, the problem squarely lies on political leadership. We have the places where people can travel to and experience the joy of seeing our natural wonders. We have skilled people creating artifacts, which explain our surroundings and cultures. We have stories of our forefathers, who have shaped the present day Zambia. We also have the natural resources which can give us income to develop heritage sites.

Sir, if we have all these things, it means we can also invest in heritage tourism and bring it to a level where the country can realise its full potential. However, what is currently obtaining, where heritage sites are left unprotected and vandalised at will cannot be allowed to continue. We have brought this Motion to the House so that by working with local communities, awareness and ownership could be created at local level. When local people begin to see the importance of heritage sites, all the vandalism that we see today, will be a thing of the past.

Mr Speaker, heritage sites are recognised as important aspects of explaining people’s way of life. They are seen as a way of transmitting information from the past to the present, and to the future. Heritage sites are also an exhibition of the natural wonders of the world, that is, natural gifts from God our creator. Both at global and national levels, the importance of heritage sites to mankind cannot be disputed. There is enough evidence to show that globally, heritage sites have political significance and recognition.

Sir, in 1992, the United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) established the World Heritage Convention. This is a convention that links together, in a single document, the concepts of nature conservation and preservation of cultural properties. The convention recognises the way in which people interact with nature and the fundamental needed to preserve the balance between the two.

Mr Speaker, by signing up to the convention, national governments commit themselves to identify, protect, conserve, present and transmit their world heritage sites for future generations. The World Heritage List set up by the convention, includes natural sites, cultural sites and mixed sites. Zambia is a signatory to the World Heritage Convention, and our own Victoria Falls is one of the recognised heritage sites appearing on the World Heritage List. It was designated as a world heritage site in 1989. In 2010, there were a total of 911 world heritage sites. We need to increase our share on the list. We cannot only have one site, out of the so many that our country is endowed with. One out of over 900 sites is simply too insignificant and such a situation should not be allowed to continue. I am aware that over the years, we have submitted a number of our properties to be included on a tentative list. The sites include the following:

(a)        the Dag Hammarskjoeld Memorial Crash Site submitted in 1997; 

(b)    the Kalambo Falls Archeological Site submitted in 1997; 

(c)    Chirundu Fossil Forest in 2009; 

(d)    Mwela Rock Paintings in 2009; 

(e)    Zambezi Source in 2009; and 

(f)    the Barotse Cultural Landscape in 2009.

Sir, the Zambian Government must do all it takes to have these sites recognised. I strongly believe that partnering with citizens and local communities will help us to develop these natural heritage sites to a level that would make them be recognised at the world stage.

Mr Speaker, to get world heritage status, sites have to be nominated by their own Governments to the World Heritage Committee which is an international body set up by UNESCO. The committee meets once a year and decides on new additions following an assembly by specialist international bodies, namely the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) for cultural sites and the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), for natural sites.

Sir, world heritage status can bring enormous prestige to a site and help foster social cohesion and pride in a local community. It may also help to promote a site internationally and attract new visitors, as well as act as the focus for tourism and economic regeneration. It also means attracting international accountability. If a site is threatened, it can be added to the list of world heritage which is in danger by the World Heritage Committee.

Sir, the promotion of a site internationally attracts new visitors as is the case with our own Victoria Falls. The falls is one attraction that has pulled millions of visitors to the City of Livingstone, making it Zambia’s tourist capital. We, therefore, have to work on the other sites and see to it that even when they are not recognised as world heritage sites, they are protected and conserved in such a manner that would promote both local and international tourism.

Mr Speaker, we have just heard, from the mover of the Motion, that according to the 2012 UNESCO Report, the World Heritage Committee is increasingly recognising sites which are managed by local communities and indigenous people. The mover gave an example of the Kayas in Kenya, which is a series of eleven forests along the Kenyan Coast managed by local communities. Nothing stops us from doing similar things here in Zambia, with regard to the sites which we want the World Heritage Committee to recognise as world heritage sites. Once these sites have been listed, there would be a lot of benefits which would accrue to the country and the localities where the sites are located.

Sir, in conclusion, I would like to invite all the hon. Members to pause for a moment, and think about Zambia and her natural resources, which include, forests, rivers and other water bodies, mountains, animals, the vast land mass, the people and its diverse cultures and histories and decide what our role shall be in appreciating our creator for this wonderful gift we call Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the Motion on the Floor of the House. From the outset, I would like to record my gratitude and appreciation to the mover and seconder of this very important Motion on the Floor of this House.

Sir, allow me to begin my little discussion this afternoon by quoting one great Chinese leader who once stated that, “A man without a history cannot be used as a reliable guide for the future.” In this vein, I think that this Motion has been aptly brought to this House for the Government to consider formulating a policy on the conservation and securing of our heritage sites.

Sir, this Motion has come at a very important stage in the history of our country. This is at a time when we are celebrating fifty years of Zambia’s Independence. In the run up to the Jubilee Celebrations, I was watching what was being paraded through the media on the history of this country. I wanted to know how this would be informative to me and many other people. However, various important pieces of information were left out in informing and educating our generation and those to come. This was as a result of the lack of a proper policy to guide how we should conserve and secure our historic sites.

Sir, in discussing this Motion, I would like to state that the lack of such a policy has contributed to a situation where we are celebrating fifty years of Independence, but cannot properly account for our own history. We need to know where we have come from, where we are and probably where we intend to go as a people.

Sir, since I am leaning on the pedestal of the jubilee celebrations in debating this Motion, I would like to state that the younger generation does not have a proper account of where the struggle for Zambia’s Independence started from. This is as a result of lack of a policy on heritage sites, despite Zambia’s fifty years of Independence. Of course, I remember learning in Grade 4 about many individuals who were involved in the struggle for independence. However, as we go on, it appears some of these facts are fading away from our history. 

Sir, many people will agree with me that the most prominent figure in talks about our Independence is Dr Kenneth Kaunda. There are many historical monuments in this country relating to our political history. However, many people, the media included, just talk about things relating to Dr Kaunda. I remember not too long ago, committees of various parliaments came to visit this Parliament. They were taken to the old house of Dr Kenneth Kaunda in Chilenje and told that this was the most renowned and notorious heritage site of this country’s political history. 

Sir, there is history behind that house. Before that house came to be, there was a political grouping called the Northern Rhodesian African National Congress, which was led by the then King Mbikusita Lewanika. This organisation gave birth to the African National Congress (ANC). In Chilenje, there is the ANC House, which is of equal historical importance as the much treasured old house of Dr Kaunda. However, how many people, hon. Members of this House included, know about the ANC House?

Sir, the ANC House is very important because ANC gave birth to the United National Independence Party (UNIP). Therefore, how come we are only making pronouncements about the child and forgetting about the parents?

Sir, this Motion has come at an opportune time because a lot of history is being eroded as a result of the corrosive effects of time. Those of us who come from the Southern Province are told that when you go to Bweengwa Parliamentary Constituency, you will find a big tree called Samu Liyamomba.

Mr Livune interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, at the advent of the Independence struggle, this is where the people of the Southern Province gathered to fundraise by way of donating their animals in order to send Dr Kaunda and his team to Lancaster House in London to go and negotiate for the liberation of this country.


Mr Mweetwa: Sir, I am very sure that not too many people are aware of this, including some hon. Members in this House. These are issues of great importance. Our people came together to donate their animals to raise funds to send people who had no means to go and negotiate for Independence.


Mr Mweetwa: Sir, this is a very important monument which should be recognised. We should recognise each and every grouping’s contributions to the fight against colonialism. After gaining Independence, some people are trying to forget our history and a small section thinks that this is their country alone.

Sir, there are many important things that relate to our political history in the North-Western Province. However, it is surprising that people only want to talk about Dr Kaunda’s prison house before Independence. What about the sons of the soil of the North-Western Province who contributed to the fight against colonialism?


Mr Mweetwa: Sir, why do we not talk about the houses they lived in? Is it only one person who really put in so much that the contributions of others have to dissolve in the enormity of one person’s contributions? I am not in any way intending to undermine Dr Kaunda’s contributions to our Independence struggle.

Mr Nkombo: It is okay.


Mr Mweetwa: Sir, all I am saying is that a government policy on our heritage sites is very important in order to give an accurate and apt account of our historical foundation as a country.

Sir, to amplify my point further, I wish to state that for the first time since Independence, a site of great historical importance in Choma has been vandalised. This has happened in the last three years of the Patriotic Front (PF) being in power. Anybody who has been to Choma District offices, and I know many have been there, knows that there used to be two old colonial guns representing the political history of this country that were stuck on some monument. However, in the last three years of the PF’s reign, those guns have been stolen.


Mr Mweetwa: Sir, many young people think Boma is an ordinary word which means Government, yet it meant, the British Overseas Military Administration (BOMA). In the past, when young people passed through the Choma Boma, many of them would be intrigued by the sight of those old guns. This provided an opportunity for the young people to be told about the history of this country. During the three years of the PF’s rule, those guns have been stolen. Why were the guns stolen only under the PF Government? Before the PF came into power, those guns had been preserved.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, no wonder the hon. Member for Rufunsa has thought about the need for a policy to protect our heritage sites because the Government has no plans for the preservation of our historical sites.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, what we are talking about is connected to the chaos we saw at the advent of our country’s Independence celebrations whereby an hon. Minister asked an hon. Member to submit the names of any freedom fighters he knew to the Government. What type of haphazard governance style is that?

Mr Livune: Shame.

Mr Mutale: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, a government in power should easily be able to gather relevant information to a country’s fiftieth independence celebrations.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, we have not properly secured the historical information of significance to this country because we lack a policy for the preservation of our heritage. That is why we are seeing this octopus approach to the way we are handling issues of national importance such as Zambia’s Golden Jubilee celebrations. It is, therefore, my humble view that, this Motion is non- controversial, but extremely serious. I do not know how many people in that PF know that this Motion is serious.

Sir, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Motion that is on the Floor of the House. Indeed, it is non-controversial because we need to safeguard and secure our heritage sites.

Mr Speaker, currently, this is a portfolio function that is under the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Rightly so, because most of these sites are found in our chiefdoms. There is every need for us as a country to look after our sites. These sites cut across the political divide and, therefore, the management of these sites cannot be and will never be a responsibility of one particular political grouping. 

Mr Speaker, I am alive to the fact that, there is the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC) which is charged with the responsibility of ensuring that these sites are not only existing, but are also well looked after. I am aware that this particular commission has been able to look after these sites in various provinces and districts. We have the Mumbuluma Heritage Site in Luwingu District. There is even an employee that looks after that particular heritage site on a day to day basis. 

Mr Speaker, I am also alive to the fact that, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, through the NHCC, advertises when it needs partnerships in looking after certain heritage sites. There is a guide that allows the Government to partner with the community in the preservation of heritage sites. I would have loved a situation whereby we would be urging the Government to enhance the operations of the NHCC as opposed to our asking for a policy to be put in place. I think that the policy is almost ready. Much of the work has already been done. 

Mr Speaker, the guidelines which are in place have helped the NHCC to look after our national heritage sites. What we need to do is to avoid the illegal occupation of these sites in the name of developing and securing the sites. A number of heritage sites have been encroached upon to the extent that some people are complaining that we are losing very good heritage sites which should be a source of revenue and foreign exchange. The Government has been doing its level best to ensure that our heritage sites are protected for the benefit of the community where these sites are located.

Sir, strategic conservation is a key. It is a key because we can use these strategic sites to raise the much needed foreign exchange and allow the heritage sites to contribute to the growth of the gross domestic product (GDP) in this country. I am sure the hon. Minister will clearly state how far we are in terms of operationalising the relevant policy. This Motion is basically pushing an open door because I have seen adverts that have been placed by the NHCC to ask for partnerships in the development and safeguarding of heritage sites.

Mr Speaker, it is very sad that some people from our communities steal items which are part of our historical heritage. It is the responsibility of all Zambians to ensure that our heritage is preserved.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the mover of this Motion who articulated issues very well. The seconder and Hon. Mweetwa also made significant contributions to this very wide subject. Heritage is a very wide subject which has so many categories

Sir, we have natural and cultural heritage. In cultural heritage, we have what is tangible and intangible. Looking at the Motion, the mover wants to urge the Government to come up with a policy that will help the community to manage its heritage sites. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to put the heritage sites in categories. We have world heritage sites like the Victoria Falls, national heritage sites like Ing’ombe Ilede in Siavonga, community heritage sites like the shrines, family heritage sites like the burial sites, and we have individual heritage sites. The communities are the custodians of all the sites. The sites are identified by their values. There are sites which have economic or cultural value.

Mr Speaker, let me declare interest and say that when I was Minister responsible for the portfolio of tourism, I left a policy in place to help the communities to work with the Government in order to manage the heritage sites. However, when the Patriotic Front ((PF) Government came to power, it started shuttling portfolios to and from. It is at this stage when the implementation of the policy stalled. 

Mr Speaker, there is a strong relationship between culture and heritage. What we see in this Government is that issues to do with culture are handled in one ministry and those to do with heritage by another. I always speak using metaphors. I can describe this situation as having a suit which has pieces which are stored in different wardrobes. Heritage and culture issues are intertwined. I strongly believe that the ministry that was supposed to handle cultural issues is the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, and not the Ministry of Tourism and Art. I am wondering why the Government is failing to establish a policy that could be used by the communities to manage the heritage sites when money is available at international level for such activities. For example, the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) working with the Global Environmental Facility (GEF) has money which is available for communities to manage heritage sites. Small Grant Programmes (SGP) is an initiative which is managed by one of the United Nations (UN) bodies which promotes the maintenance of ecosystems and biodiversity in order to mitigate the effects of climate change. Therefore, I am wondering why we have a problem providing money for these communities to take care of their heritage. Therefore, I find this Motion to be timely, although it has delayed to come to the House because we have lost many heritage sites. If you went to the Ing’ombe Ilede, which played a pivotal role in the history of trading, you would discover that it is now a sorry sight. People used to come from Angola, Tanzania, and Zambia to trade there. However, if you were to go there now, you would be very disappointed and wonder if there is a Government in this country.

Mr Speaker, look at the source of the Zambezi River. Other than the building that I put there when I was Minister, there is nothing else that has been built there. The source of the river has an ecosystem that can easily be recognised by the United Nations Decade on Biodiversity. I am wondering why the Government is taking so much time to come up with a policy that can help it to look after the source of the Zambezi River.

Mr Speaker, I want to join the mover and seconder of the Motion to urge this Government to implement the policy on heritage sites which the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government left behind. I do not know where it is. If there is no policy, please, let them quickly draft one because we are losing resources which we should protect.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Professor Luo): Mr Speaker, I want to thank the mover of this Motion and the seconder. Right from the outset, I want to say that sometimes, before these Motions come to Parliament, it would be better if the mover and the seconder of the Motion would have a discussion with the host ministry so that they would appreciate whether, in fact, the problem they want addressed is not already being attended to. 

Mr Speaker, I want to start by saying to this honourable House that Zambia’s heritage resource base is comprises both natural and cultural resources which are spread all over the country. This Government is alive to that fact. We preserve the heritage sites through the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC) and so far, we have been able to record over 4,000 heritage sites across Zambia. There is just a poor access to information. I say this because some of the examples of the heritage sites that have been used in the debates are already recorded in our 4,000 heritage sites that I have referred to. 

Mr Speaker, some of the heritage resources are actually not even found in chiefdoms or communities, but are preserves of museums where they are displayed for educational purposes as well as for the enjoyment of the public. Some of the resources are still unknown and we are still going around the country identifying them. Like most African countries, Zambia is rich in both tangible and intangible heritage. It is important for this august House to note that many of the heritage sites in Zambia have actually been managed by the communities for centuries, using indigenous knowledge systems of conservation, popularly known as traditional management systems. So, if some of the people in our communities, those who have put in so much in the management of these resources, are listening to this debate, I am sure they would be very angry because we are not appreciating what they have been doing.

Sir, one important thing which we have been working on as a ministry, through the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC), is the amendment of the law so that we celebrate the communities that have been managing the resources on our behalf using indigenous knowledge. Further, the law should talk about the community benefits from our national heritage sites. 

Mr Speaker, it should be pointed out that protection of our heritage resources through traditional management systems necessitates community participation in decision-making. This has been provided for in the draft policy tabled in my ministry because it is important for us. 

Mr Speaker, what we have identified as important, as we talk about management and preservation, is the fact that communities need to have access to the right information so that they can participate properly in the decision-making processes. This has been provided for in the draft policy. It is important to amend our colonial law which was in place even during the time of the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD), a party the mover belongs to.   

Sir, when the community participates in the management of these sites, there is some wealth created. In order to facilitate community management of heritage sites, both tangible and intangible as well as national and community resources, it is important that this draft policy is drafted in a consultative manner. I am pleased that we have hon. Members of Parliament here who are interested in this draft policy. I hope that we can bring it to Parliament one of the mornings so that hon. Members can also provide us with their input instead of them being armchair critics. 

Mr Livune: Question!

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the good news is that in this policy, we have addressed more issues than what is being debated in this august House.

Mr Speaker, collections of our cultural and natural heritage in the form of objects and specimens are being found now both in public and private institutions. We believe that this policy will be important in helping us collect some heritage objects, especially those being found in the hands of the ordinary Zambians. In fact, we have seen a lot of these objects in backyards being polished and being sent outside the country. My ministry will ensure that objects which are in the hands of individuals are collected and stored. 

Mr Speaker, as clearly stated in the Budget Speech, our Government has decided to put tourism at the centre of our development strategy. As you can see from the Budget of the Ministry of Tourism and Art, we want tourism to be at the top of our development agenda. For tourism to flourish, we have to ensure that our heritage sites are well preserved. To this effect, we, in our policy and guidelines, are working out modalities as to how the sites will be protected so that our tourism sector can grow.  

Sir, in fact, we have gone beyond the production of a policy. We have gone round the country and put all the sites on the market. Our missions abroad have software which can show people our sites and how they can get there. 

Sir, the NHCC, which is a statutory body under the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, has formulated policy guidelines that will be important in the management and responsible use of our heritage sites. The policy will encourage other stakeholders in heritage management to make the valuable heritage resources accessible to the host communities and our visitors. 

Sir, the draft policy will foster dialogue between conservationists and the private sector in a bid to promote heritage conservation and create wealth. Our interest is not for the private sector to make money. Instead, we want to create wealth for the people in our communities. Zambia has signed a number of international conventions and protocols related to heritage management and has an obligation to domesticate them into the policy and legal framework in order to make them implementable. 

Sir, the future, as far as I am concerned, under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government of our heritage sites is bright. The next step that the ministry will take is to subject the draft policy to wide consultations which shall also involve hon. Members of Parliament. 

Sir, I wish to inform this august House that this country has a lot of heritage resources which are under threat. I want to add that we are also worried about vandalism. However, I think that we should be more worried about the effect of climate change on our heritage sites. Our heritage sites are also under threat from mining, agriculture and road and dam construction activities. This is why we are expediting the putting together of the policy. We would like that when the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development is making any decision where there is a heritage site, they are privy to the policy. 

Mr Speaker, the detrimental human factors are partly due to lack of public awareness as regards the importance of heritage sites. To this effect, my ministry is working round the clock to raise public awareness about the importance of the heritage sites.   

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, for us, the involvement of local communities is not an issue because we work with them on a number of projects all over the country. In fact, even the international discourse is going that way. 

Sir, once implemented, the policy will set out to achieve a lot in the core areas of heritage conservation, preservation and management as articulated in the five chapters of the document. It should be pointed out that the role of the community in heritage management has been a key element of the training and capacity building that has been taking place through the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs.

Mr Speaker, if we did not care, we would not have been sending our staff abroad to learn about heritage management. We would also not be sending them to interact with our chiefs in order for them to learn about indigenous knowledge management systems. We would also not have started training our communities in the best ways of managing their heritage sites. 

Sir, the heritage sites are for all Zambians. Thus, the administration of these sites under titled land is something that we will not accept. I am aware that there are some applications in the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection for some of the heritage sites to be put under title. This will not be entertained by my ministry. I am working with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to ensure that no heritage site in this country goes under title because if that happens, then the communities will not benefit them. The Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs will work tirelessly to ensure that land which houses a heritage site which has been given to mining companies is repossessed. 

Mr Speaker, we welcome the contributions by the mover and the seconder of this Motion. However, if they had cared to talk to us, they would not have brought this Motion to the Floor of this House. They are pushing an open door. Those that have been talking about particular places like the African National Congress (ANC) House and Kaunda House would have known that they were occupied by other people if they had cared to ask us. The PF Government had to buy the houses off and restore them to the level where they are today. 

Sir, hon. Members of Parliament should learn to pay tribute where it is due. The Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs has done a lot of work in trying to protect this country’s heritage sites. 

Mr Speaker, in fact, when we went to celebrate the heritage site for the Choma Declaration, the hon. Member for Choma Central made sure that he did not attend the event. If he does not want to work with us, how is he going to know the sites which we are identifying in his constituency? Everyone, including the freedom fighters, were there, but the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central was not.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Yes! That is a fact.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the guns which he referred to are just for decoration purposes.


Professor Luo: Sir, let him come to the ministry and be taught what heritage issues are instead of …

Mr Livune: Question!

Professor Luo: … of his coming to this august House and giving information that is not correct. Since our aim is to improve lives of the people in rural areas, we are geared, as a ministry, to ensure that the communities participate in the preservation, management and identification of heritage sites because our policy will ensure that they benefit from those sites. We shall ensure that the money earned from the tourists does not come to Lusaka. It shall remain in the rural areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I thank the debaters, especially the seconder and debaters like Hon. Mweetwa, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … the hon. Member for Lupososhi and the hon. Minister.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to. 




VOTE 09 – (Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President – K8,267,584).

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity accorded to me to present this year’s Estimates of Expenditure for the Teaching Service Commission.


The Chairperson: Order!


The Chairperson: When I said ‘Order’, I meant that we should keep quiet so that we allow the person on the Floor to read uninterrupted.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I said I thank you for the opportunity accorded to me to present this year’s Estimates of Expenditure for the Teaching Service Commission. 

Sir, the Teaching Service Commission was established under Article 115(a) of the Service Commission Act Cap. 259 Section 13(b) and Section 21 of the same Act which empowers the commission to make, with the consent of the President of the Republic of Zambia, regulations regarding its operational procedures and to confer power or impose duties on any other authority of the Government for the purpose of discharging its functions.

Mr Chairperson, the specific functions of the commission are prescribed under Section 122 of the Service Commission Act as follows:

(a)    to make appointments to any office in the Teaching Service Commission;

(b)    to make appointments on probation, confirmation in appointments, retirements and transfers;

(c)    to exercise disciplinary control over persons holding or acting in the established teaching service posts and remove any persons from such offices; and

(d)    to conduct professional appraisals for teachers as well as to sensitise them on their rights and responsibilities.

Mr Chairperson, in 2014, the commission performed its functions with a Budget of K8,167,803. I now present the 2015 Budget Estimates for the Teaching Service Commission amounting to K8,267,584. These funds will support the portfolio functions of the commission in our continued efforts to provide efficient and effective teaching services to our youthful population. I urge this august House to support this allocation in order for the commission to continue to perform its functions.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I would like to add my voice to this important debate. All of us here have passed through the hands of teachers. In both rural and urban areas, without education, we are doomed. Teachers operate in terrible conditions, especially in rural areas. Some of the teachers do not even know how appointments are done. Some teachers have retired without being confirmed in their appointments. The reason is simple. The allocation to the Teaching Service Commission, in 2014, was K8,167,803 and in the 2015 Budget, it is K8,267,584. The increase is so minimal. How do you expect the commission to be effective? The commission is supposed to monitor what is happening on the ground. 

Mr Chairperson, if the teachers are not well motivated, you will find that they will spend their time drinking and abusing young girls. If the commission is proactive, it will make sure that promotions are effected on time. This will motivate teachers. In this country, that is not the case. It takes about ten years for a teacher to be promoted even when we have Provincial Education Officers (PEOs) and head teachers.  These are the people who are supposed to supply such information to the Teaching Service Commission. For the commission to have a better picture of what is on the ground, its commissioners have to travel from one point to another. Some of us who come from rural areas have seen the suffering of these teachers. The teachers are poorly accommodated and their rural hardship allowance is not even defined properly such that it is not clear who is entitled to it. Even things such as files are not traceable. 

Mr Chairperson, going on leave or to pursue further studies is a hassle for teachers. Another problem is the probation period. The probation period which applies under the Teaching Service Commission must be the same with the one which is used by the Public Service Commission. Currently, we have so many people with degrees and diplomas who are willing to serve in rural areas, but the problem is that once they are posted to those places, they are ignored for a long time. The doors for progress will be shut completely for them. If somebody is posted to Shang’ombo, he or she will not see Lusaka in a long time. We have seen transfers being effected along partisan lines. 

Mr Chairperson, today, I was told that those who used to be classified daily employees are now Public Service workers. These people have been left hanging because they do not know where they belong. These are the people who work alongside the teachers. Thus, we need to recognise them. If somebody serves in Chilubi, he should not be left there forever. Let him be in Chilubi for two to three years and then take him to Mansa or Kasama. You should also take those that have been in town for a long time to the villages. This is not happening because things are not handled in a fair manner. 

Mr Mukanga interjected.

Mr Muchima: Sir, my brother, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, should carry out a survey and prove what I am talking about. He is from Mufulira and I am from a village in Mwinilunga, called Ntambo, in Ikeleng’i. I know what I am talking about. I have seen teachers who have been there for many years. They do not even know where Lusaka is. The last time they smelt town was when they entered college. When they go to get their salaries at the Boma, the teachers stay for a week or two because of a lack of transport. 

Sir, disciplinary cases take too long to be disposed of. We need to empower the commission to deal with these cases quickly. The commission needs vehicles to attend to the issues that affect our teachers in outlaying areas. By not motivating our teachers, we will be killing the future of this country. This year, we enjoyed the Golden Jubilee Celebrations, but might not be there to celebrate the Centenary Celebrations. Let us educate our young ones by motivating our teachers. Due to the lack of motivation, some teachers end up abusing pupils. Worse still, the teachers have very little to do away from their work in rural areas. That problem coupled with overstaying in the rural areas, the teachers in the end just start abusing their pupils. They start enjoying what is available. Apparently, the beautiful ones are those who are being born now.


Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, the teachers must be exposed to other areas. They should be motivated by taking them to different places through transfers.  The promotions must be based on merit. When one is posted to Kaputa, he/she should not be there forever.

Mr Ng’onga: No.

Mr Muchima: Sir, when one is posted to Ikeleng’i, he/she should not remain there forever. When one is in Lusaka, he/she should not permanently stay here. We want the commission to be in a position to establish which teachers have stayed at certain schools for more than five years so that they can be transferred. That way, teachers will have the opportunity to teach in different schools in the country. A daughter of an hon. Minister simply chooses which school to teach at, but a daughter of a villager cannot make that choice. That should be stopped because they all deserve equal opportunities. Those who deserve promotions should be promoted so that we can have quality cadre in the teaching fraternity.

Mr Chairperson, I urge the commission to carefully study issues to do with appointments, confirmations and disciplinary cases. Teachers should be motivated through promotions. The commission needs adequate funding so that it can travel to different parts like to Jimbe where the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has never been. They should go there with land cruisers so that they can see for themselves how their teachers are doing.

Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote for the Teaching Service Commission because it supports the provision of educational services for our children who are the future leaders of this country.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the allocation to the Teaching Service Commission. The Teaching Service Commission is the only organisation in the country which looks at the affairs of teachers in all the schools countrywide. I feel this is wrong because the teachers in rural areas are suffering as a result of not getting the commission’s adequate attention. This is the reason most teachers prefer staying in urban areas. The Teaching Service Commission must not be a bad appointing authority. The commission should visit primary schools in rural areas in order to check on the welfare of the teachers who teach there. The Teaching Service Commission should confirm the teachers in their positions in good time once it appoints them. It should also find ways of motivating them because all workers need to be motivated. Some job advertisements state that the candidate should be self-motivated. However, not every individual has that characteristic. 

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, when a teacher is appointed, it must take six months for him/her to be confirmed in his/her position. However, in most cases, it exceeds six months and sometimes one even retires without having been confirmed in his/her position and yet the Teaching Service Commission is mandated to sort out such irregularities. The Teaching Service Commission has always existed in this country, but some teachers have not …


The Chairperson: I am not comfortable with the noise in the House. We had gone on break. That is when you should have consulted each other. We are now back in the House and should all listen to the debate.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to urge the Teaching Service Commission to improve the conditions of service for the teachers. The Teaching Service Commission acts on behalf of the President of the Republic of Zambia. Thus, we expect it to execute its functions efficiently. One might blame its failures on the lack of adequate resources. Where there is no will, even when the way is opened, you will not see it. So, let us have the heart for those teachers we have employed. Let us give them the positions they deserve. It is very shocking and disheartening that three quarters of the teachers in Kalabo are acting in their positions. Is that a normal situation? How can you have three quarters of the schools in the whole district being headed by acting head teachers? The Teaching Service Commission needs to do its job properly.

Sir, we want the teachers to be promoted and confirmed in their positions so that they can work desirably. That way, they will even like their work. How would you feel if you were promised something, but you did not get to receive it? One day, you will lose your patience and frustration will come in, and then you will start misbehaving, all because you have not received what you want. So, I hope that the Teaching Service Commission will do the needful.

Mr Chairperson, at least, I have had a chance to complain to the commission. I told one of the commissioners that the commission takes too long to promote teachers, especially in Kalabo. How come, out of all the districts, the teachers in Kalabo are not promoted? No wonder our children are not being well taught. The teachers are not well motivated. In short, the Teaching Service Commission must be on the ground. In 2015, it should reach the farthest point of Kalabo. It should not just end up in Mongu or at Kalabo Boma. It should go further and see for itself how severe the situation is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Members who have debated on this Vote. I would also like to state that the commission is doing all it can to ensure that it brings in effectiveness and efficiency by giving some of its powers to the ministry so that it concentrates on evaluation and monitoring for 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 09/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 10/01 – (Police and Prisons Service Commission – Office of the President – K6,896,746).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to present next year’s estimates of expenditure for the Police and Prisons Service Commission. Hon. Members of the House, I wish to remind the House that the Police and Prisons Service Commission was established under Article 123(1)(1) of the Constitution of Zambia in 1996, whose mandate, composition and functions are outlined in the Missions Act Chapter 259 of the Laws of Zambia. Its operations and jurisdictions are defined by the said Act and other rules and regulations that govern employment in the Zambian Public Service. The mission statement of the Police and Prisons Service Commission is to:

“to provide high quality service by upholding the integrity of the service through the application of powers vested in it by His Excellency the President without fear or favour and cultivate rapport and partnership with the police and prisons service in Zambia”.

Mr Chairperson, the functions of the Police and Prisons Service Commission are as follows:

(a)    to carry out functions directed to it by His Excellency, the President;

(b)    to appoint persons to hold or act in the office of the Zambia Police and Prison Service;

(c)    to admit officers to permanent and pensionable establishment in the Zambia Police Service and Prisons Service;

(d)    to promote officers to higher ranks in the Police and Prisons Service;

(e)    to establish disciplinary control over persons holding or acting in such offices and to stop any persons from exercising the functions of their offices in the Police and Prisons Service;

(f)    to review appeals submitted by officers against punishments imposed on them, departmentally or by the responsible officers as provided for under the Police and Prisons Service Commission Regulations No. 42 of 1976;

(g)    to decide on the requirements and normalisation of resignations of officers in the Zambia Police and Prisons Service;

(h)    to consider the granting and distribution of pension benefits accruing to the deceased estates;

(i)    to direct, on the compensation of officers who die or get injured in accidents arising out of and in the course of duty; and

(j)    to consider transfers of officers arising out of exigencies of the service.

Mr Chairperson, during the year 2014, the commission was allocated K6,569,752. Among other activities, the commission managed to tour the Copperbelt, Central and the Western provinces. The commission is now in Luapula Province. During the tours, the commission had the opportunity to visit some of the police posts and open air prisons in the aforementioned provinces. The commission did not just process confirmations in appointments, retirements, promotions, upgrades and resettlements, but was also made aware of the inadequate office accommodation and housing for our officers. However, we are happy to note that the Government is addressing these challenges. Whilst at base, the Police and Prisons Service Commission continued to process cases in respect of the two sister departments, namely the Zambia Police Force and Zambia Prisons Service respectively.

Mr Chairperson, the 2015 Budget for the commission is K6,896,746. The commission intends to decentralise its operations in 2015. It will delegate some of its functions to the Office of the Inspector-General of Police, Commissioner of Prisons and the provincial commands. To cater for these changes, the 2015 Budget has provided for the reforms, monitoring and evaluations. Sir, we expect that these changes will improve efficiency because the human resource cases would be disposed of at a faster rate.

Sir, in conclusion, I wish to make an earnest appeal to the Members of this august House to support the estimates of expenditure for the Police and Prisons Service Commission for 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Chairperson, this will be my shortest debate in this House. I just want to make one observation that I have noticed between police and prison officers. They seem to belong to one commission, but when it comes to promotions, they seem to be so different in rank. For example, the Inspector-General of Police is regarded as one of the service chiefs, but the Commissioner of Prisons is not seen in that regard. 

Sir, when you come down and look at the junior prison officers, you will find that they almost have similar qualifications with police officers, either from the University of Zambia (UNZA) or any other institution of higher learning. However, those who go into the Zambia Police Force start on higher ranks than those who join the prison service.

Mr Chairperson, this is the reason I have concluded that prison officers are de-motivated. If you visit the prisons, you will find that the situation there is deplorable. It is not only the prisoners who are in an environment that is dehumanising, but even the prison officers themselves. They are forced to work in a very bad environment. For example, prison officers who work inside Chimbokaila are not allowed to come out of the prison and will be with the prisoners until the time they knock off. This is more or less like serving a prison sentence. I want to appeal to the Police and Prisons Service Commission to look into the differences in ranks between the officers of the two institutions which report to it.

Mr Chairperson, I support this Vote. Thank you.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank my uncle, Hon. Dr Kaingu, for his debate. All I can say is that as we are trying to decentralise operations in 2015, we are also looking at harmonising the ranks and salaries in the two institutions so that, at the end of the day, everybody will be motivated as they operate under this commission.

I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 10/01 – (Police and Prisons Service Commission – Headquarters – K6,896,746).

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Chairperson, I would like clarification on page 91, Programme 4008, Activity 012 – HIV/AIDS Programmes – K8,500. The budget for 2014 was K16,500, but for 2015 it has been put at K8,500. Why is there this reduction?

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Chairperson, this allocation is meant to cater for the revision of the HIV/AIDS Policy and activities. The reduction is due to limited resources.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 10/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 68 – (Ministry of Tourism and Arts – K217,709,947).

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the policy statement in support of the 2015 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Tourism and Art. The total budget estimates for 2015 for the ministry is K217,709,947 from K97,818,234 in 2014.

Mr Chairperson, as the House may be aware, my ministry is responsible for the following portfolio functions as contained in the Gazette Notice No. 561 of 2012: tourism and cultural policy, national parks and wildlife safari, Hotels and Tourism Training Institute, tourism marketing, accommodation establishments, travel agencies, cultural industries and arts and cultural centres.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Tourism and Art implements its mandate through four departments and four statutory bodies. The departments are human resource and administration, planning and information, tourism and arts and culture. The statutory bodies include the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), Zambia Tourism Board (ZTB), National Arts Council of Zambia (NACZ) and the Hotels and Tourism Training Institute.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to first highlight the progress made in the implementation of key programmes in 2014 which laid the foundation for programmes earmarked for implementation during the planned period.

Policy and Regulatory Framework

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has finalised the review and development of the Tourism Policy as well as the Tourism and Hospitality Act of 2007. The objective of the revision was to align the policy to job creation which is the priority focus of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for the tourism sector. The review, therefore, removed bottlenecks that constrained the growth of the sector by putting in place strategies and measures that will promote its growth through increased public and private sector investment.

Sir, the Draft Tourism and Hospitality Bill, 2014, will be tabled before this House for enactment during the next legislative session of Parliament. I wish to call upon all distinguished hon. Members of this august House to support the progressive provisions of the Draft Bill.  

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has embarked on the revision of the Wildlife Policy and Act of 1998, to bring both documents in line with the prevailing trends and best practices in wildlife management. As you are aware, our protected areas cover one-third of the country’s total landmass and, therefore, policy review calls for broad consultation involving all stakeholders including local communities who are the main custodians of the wildlife resources in game management areas (GMAs) where they reside. The policy will be finalised by the end of this year. The Wildlife Bill will be tabled in the next legislative session of Parliament. I, once again, call upon the hon. Members of this august House to support the Bill. 

Wildlife Conservation and Management

Mr Chairperson, as the House may be aware, the ban on safari hunting which was effected in 2012 and continued into 2013 was lifted in August, 2014. This followed a nationwide animal census that was undertaken to determine the animal population levels so that the allocation of hunting quotas could be guided by the available stocks in order to ensure the sustainability of our wildlife species. During the period that the ban was in force, hunting only took place under nine hunting concessions which had their licences issued prior to the ban. As a result of the ban, revenue collection from hunting activities declined from K21.8 million in 2012 to K1.9 million in 2013, which negatively affected our protection efforts.

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, a provision of K121.7 million has been set aside for the management and conservation of wildlife and a transformation of Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) into a Government department as well as to meet the operational expenses. This budgetary allocation will be used to meet programme costs, personal emoluments, expenses for staff in the new department in line with the prevailing Public Service Conditions of Service, and to pay off management staff on contracts money owed to them for their leave days and gratuity. It is important to note that all staff, including those on contract, will be absorbed in the newly-created department to ensure that the reforms do not result in job losses.

Mr Chairperson, as the House may be aware, ZAWA has outstanding debts with various creditors. The debt is expected to be dismantled from internally-generated revenue from wildlife resources by the department.

Tourism Infrastructure Development and Investment Promotion

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, infrastructural development in tourism and culture included the construction of Maramba Cultural Village in Livingstone, completion of phase one of Mwandi Cultural Village in new Mwandi District. Other infrastructural programmes included the rehabilitation of walking trails, viewing sites and the fence at the Victoria Falls. The construction of the art gallery in Livingstone was also completed. The gallery was officially launched on the 16th October, 2014.

Creative Industries

Mr Chairperson, the Government’s Job Creation and Industrialisation Strategy has prioritised the creative industry as a major job creation vehicle. Creative industries comprise the creation, production, marketing and distribution of products and services resulting from human creativity. In 2014, 3,815 artists and cultural practitioners were supported through the provision of grants to enable them to enhance their production capacities.

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, my ministry will continue with the implementation of programmes that commenced in 2014, as guided by its strategic plan that was launched in August 2014. The vision of the sector is to become one of the top five tourism destinations in Africa by 2030. The attainment of this vision requires that necessary infrastructure is put in place to open up new tourism sites with vast tourism potential as well as increase investment in hotel and conference facilities to increase the country’s bed space in anticipation of increased tourist inflows that will follow our aggressive marketing plans.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry working in collaboration with the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) is identifying investors to put up a multi-purpose conference facility in Livingstone using the public-private partnership (PPP) model to enable the country host big international events. Livingstone is becoming a preferred destination for both domestic and international conferencing in addition to leisure.

Mr Chairperson, the unprecedented tourism marketing witnessed in 2013 to international markets through exhibitions at fairs as well as advertising on international media channels such as CNN, BBC and Travel Channel resulted in the raising of the profile of Zambia as a tourist destination. The country expects to record positive benefits in terms of increased arrivals for many years to come. In this regard, a total of K14.7 million has been allocated towards tourism marketing to enable us to build on the marketing efforts embarked upon towards the run up to the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Assembly.

Mr Chairperson, the tourism sector is highly competitive and having an urge over our competitors calls for developing diverse tourism offerings of exceptional quality. It remains an indisputable fact that Zambia has a good tourism product that needs to be properly developed and packaged. In this regard, the ministry’s focus in the medium term will be product development and enforcement of standards in various establishments. In order to effectively regulate and manage the sector, a tourism levy shall be introduced in 2015 which will go towards capitalising the Tourism Fund. The Tourism Fund, as provided for in the Tourism and Hospitality Act of 2007, will be applied towards tourism product development, tourism marketing, training and standards enforcement.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to conclude my statement by urging all the Members of this House to support the budget estimates for my ministry. 

I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of the House. I also wish to thank the hon. Minister for the statement that she has made regarding her ministry. From the outset, I support the Vote because tourism is a very important sector, not just in Zambia, but also everywhere in the world.

Mr Chairperson, the sad thing is that for many years, hon. Members of Parliament have stated how important tourism is without putting forward sufficient efforts to grow the sector. The hon. Minister has alluded to the fact that starting from last year, the tourism sector has shown some improvement, but my view is that this improvement is due to one-off factors. In this particular case, the meeting for the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) last year in this country is the one that has caused a leap or rather a jump in the tourist arrivals in Zambia. However, that has not created the transformation we are looking for. After this year, and perhaps next year, things will come back to normal. I do not think that the surge that we have seen in tourist arrivals is going to be sustained.

Mr Chairperson, I have been to a number of countries where tourism really works wonders. Last year, I had the privilege, together with some of my colleagues here, to go to Tanzania as part of a delegation to a Southern African Development Community (SADC) Parliamentary Forum meeting. During that visit, we had the opportunity to visit the Ngorongoro Conservation Area in Tanzania. Hon. Nkombo and Hon. Chishimba, I think, were there.

Mr Nkombo: Ngorongoro Crater.

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, the Ngorongoro Crater.

Mr Chairperson, what we saw was amazing. I am yet to talk about countries outside Africa. When you go to one of the sites in the park, it looks like Arcades Shopping Mall or Manda Hill Shopping Mall. There are motor vehicles full of tourists. There are big crowds all the time at that place.

Mr Chairperson, similarly, when you go to other strong tourist places in South Africa or Dubai, you will see crowds of tourists. There can be no doubt in your mind that you are at a tourist resort because you will see buses with tourists, and every lodge is busy. In some of these places, the number of tourists visiting can exceed the number of residents. Therefore, when we see crowds in our tourism places, there can be no doubt that the amount of money that is going to be left is substantial. That is when we can say that tourism industry is performing, and not when we see isolated buses with tourists here and there. That is a trickle and can happen anywhere. There are bound to be tourists anywhere even when there is no effort being made to market the country. What we are looking for are waves and waves of people entering the country. That is when the impact of tourism is going to be felt in our country.

Mr Chairperson, the question now is: Why are we not seeing these waves of human beings coming to visit our country? Why is it not happening here? After listening to the hon. Minister, I am not sure that I heard her address these critical issues of why we do not get these crowds coming here. We need to address certain critical issues if the number of tourist arrivals in the country is going to increase. What are these issues? The first thing is the cost of being a tourist in Zambia. Time and time again, we have been told that just there at the Victoria Falls, the cost of being a tourist on the Zambian side is much higher compared to being a tourist on the Zimbabwean side. Even during the UNWTO Conference they have been busy talking about, I was told that the majority of the visitors preferred to go to the Zimbabwean side.  I was not there during the conference. I think that I was in the constituency visiting. However, I was told that the majority of visitors preferred to be on the Zimbabwean side. Why? It is because it is cheaper to visit that side. It is cheaper because one of the most important ingredients in tourism, fuel, is cheaper in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe has no oil wells just like us. Unless that hon. Minister there, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Who?

Dr Musokotwane: … Hon. Yaluma, can address the issue of bringing the cost of fuel down, this sector is going to continue suffering. I am surprised that when the Patriotic Front (PF) used to campaign, its members used to say that the cost of fuel in Zambia was expensive because of corruption. However, after they came into office, the cost of fuel increased. The price of fuel is more than it was during our time.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: It is worse.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, since the PF said that it is corruption which affects the cost of fuel, I appeal to the Government to curb the corruption which is in the fuel procurement process.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, if the price of fuel does not go down in Zambia, aeroplanes …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Will stop coming.

Dr Musokotwane: … will stop coming to Zambia.

Lt-Gen.Rev Shikapwasha: Yes, quite true.

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, buses from within the region will be going to Zimbabwe. The cost of hotel rooms is too expensive here.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Even the train.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, the cost of fuel needs to be addressed if the tourism sector is to make progress in our country. 

Mr Chairperson, the second issue is that of labour productivity. Labour productivity refers to how much service a worker can deliver on a given day.  I know that most hon. Members are well travelled. The next time any hon. Member travels, he or she should observe how many waiters are there in a restaurant in China, New York, London or Nairobi. Most of the time, they are quite few and are always on their feet running. The amount of service that a particular individual produces in our country is limited. The end result is that the cost of labour is expensive. Therefore, the cost of fuel needs to be reduced and  labour productivity needs to be increased.

Mr Chairperson, there are many factors that I would like to mention which may delay my progress. One of those factors regards the development of the tourist sites that the hon. Minister was talking about. The thing that surprises me is what this Government has done about the northern ‘sector’.

Hon. Opposition Members: Circuit.

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, the Northern Circuit.  

Mr Chairperson, under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), we recognised Lake Tanganyika as the epicenter of that Northern Circuit. We said that this lake, sitting in the middle of Africa, is uniquely placed to be a conference centre for the whole of Africa. Southern Africans, North Africans and East Africans can all come and have their conferences there. The Northern Circuit is unique because it is in a national park which has a lake. 

   Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, we started extending the airport because the one that was there was just for small aircrafts and we needed bigger ones to land there. Big hotels need reliable electricity so the MMD Government initiated big electricity projects. The power supply was limited so Lunzua was developed to provide electricity to the Northern Circuit. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, everything was moving very well until the PF came into power and abandoned our plans. 

Dr Kaingu: Continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, this is really shameful. I do not see how we can develop an industry like this. 

Finally, Mr Chairperson, the area I come from is in Liuwa National Park. For those of you who used to see Lady Liuwa …

Dr Kaingu: The lion?

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, the lion which was shown on National Geographic Channel. That was not in Kenya or some other place. It was in Zambia. 

Mr Chairperson, this is a small, but very unique national park. Those who want to see some very interesting pictures can visit my Facebook page. I know that the hon. Deputy Chairperson visits it from time to time. I am inviting others to do the same. You will see unique plains in the park and the migration of wildebeests from Angola to Zambia, yearly. This park is the epicenter. 

Sir, the park is one of the best natural resource assets for the people of the Western Province. So how can the Government promote tourism activities in the area? One thing that amazed us in the Ngorongoro visit was that all the little towns like Kalabo and Magoye which surround this park are as a result of tourism. They are small towns full of lodges. You can go to a small town like Kalabo and find youth who own safari vehicles. These are Land Rovers that have been converted into safari transport.  Tourists from Europe and America come and hire these trucks to go inside the park. People are earning a livelihood from accommodation and artifacts. This is what we should be hearing from the hon. Minister. How is she going to transform Kalabo from what it is today to something I have just described? 

Sir, with such development, we will have no trouble discouraging the people of the area from poaching. Right now, if you ask them to stop hunting, they will not understand your reasoning and you cannot blame them because there are no tourists to be seen and there is no money to be earned from tourism. If you stopped them from hunting, they would think you were out of your mind. They have been hunting these animals for years and now you want them to stop. These animals are grazing their tobacco, eating their rice and competing with them for wild fruits. Are these animals more important than human beings? You cannot blame them for things like that. 

Sir, the MMD Government, contrary to what is sometimes stated here, invested in the Mongu/Kalabo Road …

Dr Kaingu: Hmmn!

Dr Musokotwane: … so that national assets such as the Liuwa National Park can be opened up. Right now, there are so many visitors coming, but it is hard because if you are going to Liuwa now, you would have to be prepared for the adventure as if you were going to the South Pole.   


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to address the challenges which I have highlighted and to also be more serious with the development of the Northern Circuit.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to connect my debate to Hon. Dr Musokotwane’s. 

Mr Chairperson, there is a lot of global competition in the tourism sector. Hon. Dr Musokotwane saw what he saw in Arusha and Dubai because these destinations are attractive. We are competing for international tourists. For an international tourist to come here, the destination must be attractive. 

Sir, Hon. Dr Musokotwane mentioned the cost of fuel. Hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, we are wondering why even when we are told that the price of oil per barrel is below US$100 on the global market, in this country, we buy fuel as if the price of oil is still at US$140 per barrel. How can you attract overlanders, for instance, who use trucks with such prices?  

Sir, when we were in Government, in the tourism sector, we focused on investment and marketing. In investment, we came up with six land units which are the Victoria Falls in Livingstone, Kafue National Park, Northern Circuit, South Luangwa and North Luangwa, Siavonga and Lusaka. Planes were supposed to land in Lusaka and then fly to other parts from here because it is central. It is a shame, however, that when our colleagues came into power, they shelved our plans. We are not supposed to be talking about the Northern Circuit today. Today, we are supposed to talk about the Western Circuit. 

Sir, as Hon. Dr Musokotwane said, there is Sioma Falls in the Western Province. If David Livingstone had seen Sioma Falls before Victoria Falls, I am sure it would have been Victoria Falls today.


Dr Kaingu: Sir, the Sioma Falls is so beautiful. I am urging the hon. Members to go and have a look at it.


Dr Kaingu: Sir, some of you are laughing and saying it is a sandy place. The whole province is a sandy beach. That is what we are supposed to market. 

Sir, Hon. Dr Musokotwane talked about Liuwa National Park. There are only three areas where migration of wildlife takes place. The first is Liuwa National Park where there is the migration of wildebeests. The other area is Kasanka and this is where there is the migration of bats and lastly in Tanzania where there is the migration of wildebeests as well. 

Mr Chairperson, we have the products which could easily be sold. Our colleagues who are in similar situations are managing well. For example, Mauritius is a long distance away from certain countries. A tourist travelling from the United States to Mauritius would probably have to make a lot more connections to reach there than they would have to make to reach here.

Sir, there are what we call ‘push factors’ in tourism and they are intrinsic. A tourist must first ask themselves why they should come to Zambia. What would attract a tourist to Zambia? Is it peace or leisure? These ‘push factors’ must encourage the tourists to come to Zambia from whereever they are. When the tourist arrives in Zambia where does he go?

Ms Kapata: Who?

Dr Kaingu: The tourist. 


Dr Kaingu: Sir, does he just go to see the Victoria Falls? What other activities can the tourist engage in? You are talking about keeping a tourist for more than three days. How can you keep a tourist for more than three days when your tourism products are not connected? You need to connect your products. 

Mr Chairperson, for example, the Victoria Falls must be connected to traditional ceremonies. The traditional ceremonies are not lined up in an orderly manner. The next ceremony that is coming up is the Ncwala Ceremony. A tourist cannot wait for another ceremony that will be in March or April which is the Kuomboka Ceremony. 

Sir, there is a notion or a misconception that we do not have local tourism in Zambia. What is sustaining Zambian operators is local tourism. Even those of us who run lodges do not receive international tourists. It is not true that we do not have local tourism.

Mr Chairperson, cultural tourism is fundamental to rural development. As we craft policies, our focus must be to change the lifestyle of our people. Costa Rica improved itself because of cultural tourism. We have over seventy-nine traditional ceremonies which means that we can actually generate a lot of income from ceremonies. Traditional ceremonies can be catalysts for development in rural areas. Sadly, I did not hear the hon. Minister say anything about cultural tourism.

Sir, when you attend a cultural ceremony, you would think that it is either Airtel, Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) or MTN advertising a new product. Our sponsors have taken away the value of traditional ceremonies. I would like to emphasise that cultural tourism can change Zambia.
Mr Chairperson, for example you can have a pilgrim at Ing’ombe Ilede. We can create a programme whereby people can come from Tanzania and Angola to trade at Ing’ombe Ilede in the Southern Province like they used to before. Even during the time of colonialism, Africa had marketing places where people could go and trade. For instance, in the Copperbelt, just at the border with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), we had a marketplace where people would converge from the DRC and Zambia to trade. What was that place called?

Hon. Opposition Members: Mutambo

Dr Kaingu: Yes, Mutambo. Why do we not protect these important heritage sites? 

Sir, I wanted to bring that to the attention of the hon. Minister. As I terminate my debate, I would like the hon. Minister to know that this sector depends a lot on hearsay. We are now being told that there is Ebola in Africa. The tourists think that Africa is one country so we have to try hard to show that Ebola is not in Zambia. 

Mr Chairperson, I can confirm that during this period, I have had ten tourist packages which have been cancelled because people believe that there is Ebola here. As we discuss and craft policies without ensuring that the world out there knows that Zambia does not have Ebola, many international tourists will cancel their bookings.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the two hon. Members of Parliament that have contributed to the debate which is on the Floor of the House. I will begin by addressing the issues raised by Hon. Dr Musokotwane who talked about how sites in national parks in other countries are better than the ones that we have in Zambia. I would like to mention that Zambia has a policy of attracting high value tourists with low impact because the policy that we have in game management areas (GMAs) does not allow for us to have large hotels and lodges because of their negative impact on the environment.

Sir, the Ministry of Tourism and Art has identified areas that can allow mass tourism in Zambia. For example, we have the Kafue National Park, the Northern Circuit, which you have talked about and also Livingstone. We are also developing the Meetings Incentives Conferences and Exhibitions (MICE) aspect in order to attract large numbers of people to come to Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, like I said in my preamble, we are looking for investors who can come and invest in our country and build big conference centres in Livingstone and other districts. Hon. Dr Kaingu talked about Zambia having a low turn up of tourists. However, as of April, this year, we had more than 420,000 tourists and we hope to reach our target of 1 million tourists by the end of the year. 

Mr Chairperson, he also talked about the Northern Circuit. Under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, roads are being constructed in the Northern Circuit. Once these roads have been completed, people will be able to easily get to the Northern Province and enjoy the tourism attractions that are there.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Dr Musokotwane talked about the Liuwa National Park in Kalabo. I wish to inform the House that Kalabo is going to be transformed as soon as the Mongu/Kalabo Road is completed. The ministry is working hard to see to it that tourism artifacts from far-flung areas such as Kalabo have access to good markets. 

Mr Chairperson, the Sioma Falls is a very beautiful site. Once we put up infrastructure in that area , a lot of people will be attracted to go there.   

Sir, I wish to thank all those who have supported the budget for the Ministry of Tourism and Art. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 68/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 Vote 68/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

    VOTE 68/03 – (Ministry of Tourism and Arts – Tourism Development Department – K38,969,838).

Mr Milambo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1006, Activity 041 – Lusaka Agreement Task Force – K300,000. The Budget for 2014 was K25,000 and the proposed figure is K300,000, an increment of over 600 per cent. Is the hon. Minister able to give me the breakdown of this huge increment?

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, the provision is required for annual subscription fees. The Lusaka Agreement is a regional convention under the hospices of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP). The main aim of the Lusaka Agreement is to foster co-operation among member states to control illegal trade in wildlife and consequently, poaching. The increase has been necessitated by the accumulation in the annual subscription arrears. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1151, Activity 040 – Kavango-Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation Area – K400,000. In 2014, it was at K85,000 and in 2015, the allocation for the activity has been increased to K400,000. Why do we have this huge increment?  

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr Evans): Mr Chairperson, this provision is required for preparing and implementing the Kavango-Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation activities. The increase is necessitated by the financing gap arising from a reduction in donor support. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 68/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

   VOTE 68/04 – (Ministry of Tourism and Arts – Arts and Culture Department – K19,636,424).

Mr Milambo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1182, Activity 004 – Procurement of Motor Vehicles – Nil in 2014, the budget was K400,000 and in 2015, there is nothing. This means that the ministry will not procure any vehicles. Are the vehicles which were procured in 2014 going to be insured? I cannot see any allocation for insurance premiums for vehicles.

Mr Evans: Mr Chairperson, the activity has been provided for under General Administration. The department has no plans to procure pool vehicles.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 68/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

  VOTE 04 – (Ministry of Gender and Child Development – K42,625,737).

The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver the policy statement on the 2015 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Gender and Child Development to this august House. 

Mr Chairperson, I join millions of heart-broken Zambians who are still in grief on account of the loss of our beloved President, the late Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. I pay special tribute to all Zambians, particularly, political leaders across party lines for demonstrating maturity by promoting love, peace and, above all, upholding the spirit of “One Zambia, One nation” during the time of mourning.

Sir, I am hopeful that during the period of national mourning in honour of the late Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, the nation has reflected enough to understand his vision regarding development, especially in rural areas. Our people will always remember His Excellency the late Michael Chilufya Sata for his passion and actions to better the lives of the Zambian people. This was done through the many developmental programmes and projects that were initiated by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government over the past three years and the results are visible across the country.

Sir, therefore, as we deliberate on the 2015 Budget, let us bear in mind that a lot has been done. A lot more still needs to be done. In this regard, my ministry plays an important part in ensuring that men, women, boys and girls across the country share the dream of prosperity at individual, community, district, provincial and national level and are able to take action to better their lives through various programmes. As we look to the future, we want to continue creating the foundation for a better Zambia, drawing lessons from our past achievements.

Mandate of the Ministry

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development was created on 8th March, 2012, as enshrined in Gazette Notice No. 183 of 22nd March, 2012, replacing the Gender in Development Division which existed at Cabinet Office. At policy level, the ministry is a custodian of the National Gender Policy and National Child Policy.

Apart from ensuring that socio-economic development includes and benefits men, women, boys and girls equally, the mandate also includes addressing the concerns of children living in the streets through rehabilitation and reintegration into families thereby reducing their vulnerability in society. In this regard, our vision is to have a nation where there is gender equity, equality and full realisation of children’s rights for sustainable development.

Mr Chairperson, the mission of my ministry is to co-ordinate and implement as well as monitor and evaluate the execution of gender and child development policies and programmes across sectors in order to ensure inclusive development, nation building and prosperity of men, women and children. That is why it is called a cross-cutting ministry.

Sir, according to the approved organisational structure of the ministry, there are five departments designed to execute the mandate at programme level. In accordance with the format adopted in the Yellow Book, starting from page 13, these are Human Resource and Administration Department, Gender Rights and Protection Department, Child Development Department, Gender in Development Department …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, my point of order is in relation with the orders of this House. Are we in order to continue conducting the Business of the House when we have not formed a quorum?

The Chairperson: That is an important procedural point of order. If it is true that we do not have a quorum, then we are not in order. Ring the bells so that we can wait for our colleagues who are consulting outside to come into the House. Since this is a Budget Session, I am surprised that we do not have a quorum.

Business was suspended from 1751 hours until 1753 hours.


The Chairperson: We now have a quorum. Please, let us all sit in the House because if one of us goes out again, we will be back to square one. Those who are outside, if they are listening, should know that we need them here. May the hon. Minister continue.

Mrs Wina: Mr Chairperson, the fifth department is the Planning and Information Department. The focus of the departments is to ensure that:

(a)     development as well as job and wealth creation opportunities benefit men, women, girls and boys through social and economic empowerment using gender …


The Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mrs Wina: … mainstreaming principles in programmes across all sectors;

(b)    the rights of our children to survival, development, protection and participation are realised through the co-ordination, monitoring and evaluation of the implementation of the National Child Policy;

(c)    children earning a living on the streets are rehabilitated through a systematic reintegration and referral system, skills training and family empowerment;

(d)    the provisions of …


The Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Mrs Wina: … statutory functions embedded in the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act No. 1 of 2011, the Matrimonial Causes Act No. 20 of 2007, the Affiliation and Maintenance Act Chapter 52 of 1996 as well as the Legitimacy Act Chapter 64 of the Laws of Zambia are fully implemented and adhered to;

(e)    planning, monitoring and evaluation of the implementation of gender and child development programmes is enhanced in order to facilitate the development and the implementation of appropriate interventions;

(f)    public and community awareness on gender and child development matters across the country is increased; and

(f)    the capacity to mobilise resources, administer and implement programmes in line with the mandate of the ministry are enhanced and undertaken in an efficient and effective manner.

   Budget Performance in 2014

Mr Chairperson, in the period under review, the ministry has recorded successes as outlined in the key programme activities.

Gender Mainstreaming and Women’s Empowerment

Sir, the ministry engaged all stakeholders on the need to institute policy programmes and administrative measures aimed at equal participation of males and females in national development. Arising from this process, I wish to inform the nation that the review of the National Gender Policy has been completed. The policy was approved by Cabinet on 20th October, 2014. The policy takes into account persistent and emerging issues such as high poverty levels among vulnerable households, increased levels of gender-based violence, drug and human trafficking, high disease burden as well as the low participation of women and girls in science, technology, engineering and mathematics fields.

Sir, unlike the previous policy, the current one sets a new direction for the nation in that it specifically outlines what each institution, public, private, faith-based or civil society institution is supposed to do so that during and after implementation, we are able to clearly assess the impact of gender mainstreaming activities across all sectors. Already, among the results of such interventions in sector policies, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has since directed local authorities countrywide to allocate 10 per cent of available land to women in addition to the existing 30 per cent land allocation policy. This measure progressively brings Zambia closer to attaining the fifty-fifty requirement to gender equality in terms of access to productive resources such as land, as enshrined in Article 18 of the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and Development, which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government ratified in September, 2012.

Mr Chairperson, in 2014, my ministry received a total of K2,956,870 from the budgeted amount to support women groups under the Women Empowerment Fund. From this allocation, 222 women clubs were supported by way of provision of grants and equipment. The nation may wish to know that demand for our services is overwhelming, owing to the impact the programme is making in communities around the country. My ministry is determined to support over 700 clubs countrywide in 2015.

Sir, allow me to spell out the positive impact that this programme has on society, especially in stimulating job and wealth creation. My ministry, working together with the Zambia Federation of Women in Business (ZFWB) and with the support of Zambian Breweries, has been sponsoring the Rural Woman Entrepreneurial Award since 2013. This initiative is aimed at identifying, stimulating and supporting individual women entrepreneurs who do not belong to women clubs in the medium to large-scale category. The inaugural award in 2013 was won by an entrepreneur from Kasama, who is making eco-friendly hand washing soap from Jatropha plants. She received an oil expeller from the ministry to increase her production capacity in order to improve the quality of the soap.

Mr Chairperson, this year, the award was given to a young woman entrepreneur from Namushakande, in the Western Province, who happens to be an orphan and is fighting poverty with the help of the Campaign for Women Education (CAMFED), a non-governmental organisation (NGO) that promotes, among other things, girls’ education. She has ventured into rice farming as a way of supporting her siblings with school fees and family requirements. This year, she attended the National Women Economic Empowerment Jubilee Expo organised by my ministry in Lusaka from 19th to 23rd July, at which she show-cased her entrepreneurial capacity, which has since increased due to financial literacy, business management and networking skills she received. Consequently, in September, this year, she received the 2014 Rural Woman Entrepreneur Award during the commemoration of the month of the Woman Entrepreneur held in Lusaka.

Sir, in recognition of her potential in agriculture and business, the ministry has also supported her with a hand-driven tractor to improve rice production as well as a rice polisher to move her enterprise into a value addition stage through processing and marketing of rice grown in her community. This is part of my ministry’s contribution to implementing the Job and Wealth Creation Strategy by promoting the growth of industrial clusters being spearheaded by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Chairperson, these are some of the examples of the life-changing impact of our programmes in communities across the country. Indeed, we can find a lot of success stories in other parts of the country. However, the numbers are still very low due to limited resources allocated to the ministry to support such ventures.

Child Welfare and Development

Mr Chairperson, in an effort to address the problem of children living on the streets and others exposed to other vulnerabilities, my ministry implemented the Street Children Rehabilitation and Re-integration Programme aimed at assisting such children to find alternative and sustainable forms of livelihood. The major activities under this programme include the removal of children from the streets and taking them to drop-in centres, re-integration of children with their families and communities and economic empowerment of families where orphaned and vulnerable children come from through entrepreneurship training and start-up capital. To date, 1,293 children have been removed from the streets countrywide, of which eighty-five are females while 1,208 are males. In addition, 190 families have been empowered under this programme.

Sir, in view of the importance of our young people in national development, my ministry is supporting children with skills at training institutions. In 2014, over ninety-four vulnerable children obtained qualifications in subjects such as auto mechanics, food and beverage services as well as bricklaying as a way of creating sustainable livelihoods among the beneficiaries.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, the ministry is finalising the revison of the National Child Policy in order to take into account emerging and persistent issues, namely teenage pregnancies, defilement of children, alcohol and substance abuse, among others, with the view to harmonising our policies, laws and programmes in line with the Convention on the Rights of Children (CRC) which Zambia ratified in 2001. Furthermore, the ministry is formulating the Children’s Code Bill, as a consolidated and harmonised legal instrument aimed at ensuring the survival, development, protection and effective participation of children in national affairs.

Sir, one of the topical issues is that of forced child marriages. I wish to state that as the ministry mandated to address such matters in line with the National Child Policy, the United Nations (UN) Resolution No. 68/148, co-sponsored by Zambia and Canada during the 68th General Assembly, is being implemented in co-ordination with other stakeholders with a view to ensuring that the UN members states commit to addressing the scourge in a unified manner.

Gender Equality and Human Rights

Mr Chairperson, the House may wish to know that harmonisation of the national laws and domestication of regional and international instruments such as the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) and the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and Development has advanced.

Sir, allow me to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members of this House for having participated in the consultative meetings and for providing valuable input and guidance on the structure and content of the Gender Equality Bill. In this regard, it is the desire of my ministry to submit the Gender Equality Bill for enactment at the earliest opportune time to this House.

Publicity and Awareness Creation

Sir, the ministry is implementing the National Gender Communication Strategy (2010 – 2015) as a way of creating consistent, efficient and effective communication of gender issues countrywide using various media channels and products. In this regard, the ministry has undertaken a number of awareness programmes on gender and child issues including human rights topics.

Mr Chairperson, in 2014, the ministry targeted 220 programmes on both radio and television (TV). I wish to report that over 200 programmes have already been aired countrywide. This target will be accomplished by December, 2014 as awareness programmes are currently running on Komboni Radio, Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation’s (ZNBC) Radio 2 with countrywide coverage, Mkushi Radio in Central Province, Chikuni Radio, Yangeni Radio in Mansa and Zambezi FM and Muvi TV. Further, the Maliposa film, which I urge all hon. Members to see, and 13 Drama series, on issues related to gender-based violence (GBV), are currently airing on North-West TV in the North-Western Province and Chipata TV in the Eastern Province. In order to reach more people, especially in rural areas, the ministry will conduct sensitisation programmes through community radio stations across the country.

Apart from the national programmes to sensitise the public on teenage pregnancies and other issues, especially among children, the ministry commemorated the 2014 Day of the African Child on 16th June in Kaoma in response to a report by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in the district which cited high levels of pregnancy cases.

Gender Based Violence (GBV)

Mr Chairperson, in order to spearhead community response to GBV issues, the ministry is establishing district GBV taskforces across the country as part of the District Development Co-ordinating Committees (DDCCs). So far, ten district taskforces are operational in Chipata and Katete Districts in the Eastern Province, Lusaka District in Lusaka Province, Chinsali and Nakonde District in Muchinga Province and Choma, Kalomo and Livingstone districts in the Southern Province. Other district taskforces in the remaining provinces will be operational in due course with a view to ensuring countrywide coverage.

Sir, in addition to these efforts, I wish to commend the commitment of editorial teams in both the print and electronic media for increasing the reportage of gender and child development issues. This success can be attributed to our training of journalists and reporters in public, private and community media stations as well as the quarterly media tracking meetings which serve as points of interaction, monitoring and evaluation.

Mr Chairperson, I know turn to the 2015 Budget Estimates and specific areas of intervention as outlined in the Yellow Book. As I begin to focus on the 2015 Budget Estimates, let me take this opportunity to congratulate Hon. Alexander Bwalya Chikwanda, the hon. Minister of Finance, on presenting a focused and pragmatic Budget designed to set the wheel of change in the right direction aimed at increasing rural development driven by job and wealth creation for a better Zambia.

Sir, the growth recorded and consistency in the Budgets over the past three years is a signal that time for a better Zambia is surely coming our way as evidenced by massive infrastructure projects across the country. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha interjected.

Mrs Wina: Sir, this journey to success and greatness must be embarked on as a matter of urgency. There is a need for action by every man, woman, boy and girl. The prerequisite for this process to happen starts with discipline at family level by giving space and opportunities to men, women, boys and girls to work together as equal partners in an environment where there is peace and respect for one another across gender roles. To realise this goal, we need momentum by improving on the achievements of the past. This is what is going to turn this nation from good to great, especially as we focus on the next fifty years.

Mr Chairperson, the 2015 Budget Estimates for the ministry stands at K42,625,737 compared to K35,281,288 in 2014, representing a 20.8 per cent increase amounting to K7,344,449. This increase is due to additional resources amounting to K5,541,526 earmarked as grants for women empowerment as well as K1,802,923 meant for personal emoluments to support additional staff as part of the phased implementation of the approved organisational structure in the ministry. In line with the 2015 Budget Call Circular, most of the budget lines have been maintained at the approved 2014 levels.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.


Ms Wina: Mr Chairperson, before we went on a break, I had just given the 2015 Budget Estimates for the ministry and also explained that most of the budget lines have been maintained as at the approved 2014 levels. Where changes have occurred, it is only as a result of re-aligning and prioritising activities within the programmes and departments. 

Sir, in this regard, the budget for Vote 04/02 – Gender in Development Department, has increased by 41.3 per cent owing to the increase in the Women Empowerment Fund as earlier stated. This is followed by Vote 04/01 – Human Resource and Administration Department, whose budget has increased by 17.4 per cent owing to the allocation of resources to supply constitutional provisions and the recruitment of additional staff. The allocation to Vote 04/05 – Child Development Department, has increased by 16.4 per cent. In the case of Vote 04/04 – Gender Rights and Protection Department, the budget has increased by 3.8 per cent owing to additional staff expected in 2015.

Sir, on the other hand, the budget for Vote 04/07 – Planning and Information Department has reduced by 16.2 per cent due to re-allocation of activities under Programme 3002, to Human Resources and Administration Department and other functional departments as well as the reduction in the number of activities to be undertaken in some programmes.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude my statement, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Wina: … I wish to state that, the mandate of my ministry covers all sectors. Therefore, the ministry requires huge resources to implement its programmes through co-ordination, monitoring and evaluation where programmes are implemented by other ministries, provinces and spending agencies. 

Sir, the programmes I have outlined in this budget …


The Chairperson: Order, on my left. You are too noisy.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Ms Wina: Sir, the programmes are in line with the guidance by the Ministry of Finance to align all programmes to the overall theme of the Revised Sixth National Development Plan where rural development as well as job and wealth creation are top priority.

Mr Chairperson, as we work towards implementing the 2015 Budget, my ministry has already undertaken a review of the operations of the Women Empowerment Fund. The results show that, in order to reap maximum benefits for our people, the operations of the fund will need to be transformed to ensure efficiency and effectiveness. This includes improving the methodology for the identification of the target groups as well as establishing extensive collaboration with institutions such as the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), the private sector and non-governmental organisations (NGOs) implementing empowerment programmes. I expect the usual support of this august House in implementing such measures.

Sir, in relation to rural development, financial inclusion for both women and men still remains a challenge despite the emergency and increase in the number of banking and non-banking financial institutions across the country. The Finscope surveys of 2005 and 2009 commissioned by the Bank of Zambia, show high inadequacies in addressing the financial needs of rural people especially women. In this regard, my ministry has made a provision under Vote 04/06, programme 3150, Activity 013, to undertake a feasibility study with regard to the establishment of a women’s bank. To the skeptics, let me assure them that, we are drawing on regional and international best practices. The concept has worked well in other countries such as Tanzania, Ethiopia, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, among other countries.

Mr Chairperson, realising the success and positive impact of the National Women Empowerment Jubilee Expo held in July, 2014, as a platform for increasing entrepreneurship and networking among women, I have made a provision to extend the expos to the provincial level in order to expose as many women as possible to new technologies and training. The motivation for this is that, various empowerment programmes by the Government have by now created a critical mass of entrepreneurs and beneficiaries who can create local economies and use the expos as a means for sharing success stories. One of these stories is that of women in George Compound in Matero who are making solar panels. This knowledge is being shared with other women in other parts of the country. The provincial expos will then feed into the national expo as a way of creating business and skills linkages. 


Ms Wina: Sir, I wish to state that this budget, therefore, has been formulated to ensure the equitable implementation of gender and child development programmes across the country in order to contribute to the attainment of national prosperity, as guided by the PF Manifesto.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Wina: Sir, with the new National Gender Policy in place, I expect all ministries, provinces and spending agencies to adhere to the directive given by Cabinet for all sectors to mainstream gender into all their programmes so that equitable benefits accrue to all Zambians. 

Sir, I am very confident that since minor changes have occurred, as instructed in the 2015 Budget Call Circular, hon. Members of this august House will support and approve the 2015 Budget Estimates under my ministry because gender and child development issues are critical to national development, especially as we launch a new chapter that ushers our people’s aspirations and dreams into the next fifty years.  

Sir, I take this opportunity to thank you, Sir, for allowing me time to address this august House on behalf of the men and women, boys and girls of Zambia. I wish Mother Zambia more successes as we focus on the next fifty year.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

We move on to individual items …

Mr Muntanga: No debates?

The Chairperson: Order!

Sorry …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

I thought she was winding up.


The Chairperson: Order!

Dr Chituwo may take the Floor.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate statement. I will be very brief.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of gender and child development is very dear to particularly rural based hon. Members of Parliament. The hon. Minister talked about very good programmes, but when one looks at the population of women and children, and compares it to the 222 women’s clubs that the hon. Minister said would be funded, he or she would notice that the impact would not be huge. No serious impact will be made in the next fifty years if we shall continue doing things that way. 

Mr Chairperson, this ministry is just like a tick that rides on a cow’s back. In fact, the hon. Minister can do very well by ensuring that the main ministries that handle the rights to education and health for our children enhance their operations. For instance, she can ensure that the abhorrent tradition of early marriages is tackled by keeping the girls in school longer through the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. This ministry’s job will then be so much easier if other ministries do the right things. However, if this ministry will just be sensitising people on gender issues, I am afraid it will not achieve much. 

Mr Chairperson, further, I would like to propose that there should be positive discrimination. There must be targets. In a certain district or province, a target of so many children should remain in school, for instance. We know the statics of the female children who do not go beyond Grade 7 and 9. Further, the phobia regarding mathematics and science should be tackled. Unless a child is able to, at least, count, all this empowerment being talked about will not be achieved. We may succeed to empower girls and women for a year or two, but the gains will fizzle out and will not be sustainable without positive discrimination. What I am emphasising is that mainstream ministries must anchor their programmes on positive discrimination and specific targets must be set for the girl child. However, the boy child must not be left too far behind as well. In order to do this, I am proposing that real decentralisation takes place.

Mr Chairperson, all these things cannot happen without the issue that the hon. Minister mentioned with regard to rural development. It is the whole rural community which is disadvantaged compared to the urban community. Therefore, when people in the rural community are empowered, one can then truly talk of attaining sustainable development.

Mr Chairperson, Zambia has ratified many conventions regarding children’s rights. We hope that the contents of the conventions will be in agreement with what will be contained in the new Constitution. I think that without the new Constitution, we will have a limitation in enforcing what is contained in the conventions. 

Mr Chairperson, I reluctantly support this Head with the limitations which I have pointed out. As we implement the 2015 Budget, I hope that the hon. Minister will take into account the fact that our population is made up of many women. Therefore, if the empowerment programmes are to make an impact, they must target many women. How do we do that? We can only do that by properly identifying beneficiaries, and monitoring and evaluating of the programmes through an independent body. The Civil Service has got limitations. It can only go so far.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I stand to support this Vote. I just want to emphasise what Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo has said. The amount of money given to this ministry is too little when we have so many problems. There is a proposal to have a women’s bank created. That proposal would have to be carried out through the Ministry of Finance. Many times, we have heard that the Government wants to form the agriculture credit bank for farmers, but that has never taken off. Now, they want to create one for the women. If they were serious, they should do it. I have noted that Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo mentioned that we should have positive discrimination. I hope that this positive discrimination does not give the hon. Minister power to think that women beneficiaries should only be from her party and not in other parties. There is a very bad tendency in the Ministry of Gender and Child Development with regard to the distribution of machinery such as hammer mills. The distribution process has become selective. Why does the ministry do that? The discrimination we are talking about should not be on partisan lines. We should not use this ministry as though it is a ministry for women who belong to one political party. In the previous Administration, this ministry was known for distributing things equitably to all hon. Members of Parliament. Hon. Members should not begin to sniff around for things. When we ask about these things for our constituencies, we are told to go to the hon. Minister’s Office. Why? Why do the officers at the ministry not know your responsibility? Why do we have to remind them? 

Sir, the hon. Minister is entitled to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but has included in her budget K120,000 for constituency visits, which might I add, do not include all constituencies.  We do not want to give hon. Ministers more money to add on top of what they already have for them to visit their own constituencies. I know that other ministries have put K500,000, as support to the Office of the Minister. These are some of the little things in budgeting that get us concerned. We do not want you, hon. Ministers, thinking that you should be the only ones getting the money. If you are getting the CDF and you do not believe that the fund is enough, then consider everyone else.  

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Muntanga: Sir, why should the hon. Minister have K120,000 allocated for constituency visits when she does not visit my constituency? When she visits my constituency, it is to politick and not talk about gender matters. 

Mr Nkombo: Mukaponokwa, one day.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, the behaviour of officers from the ministry makes me very reluctant to approve its budget. There is too much abuse of funds. Why should we have one person approving funding to women’s clubs? Nobody even knows how he comes up with the names of these clubs. What we have are personal pocket clubs. 

Mr Chairperson, some of the machinery given to the women through District Commissioners are now hammer mills for individuals. I am talking about the individuals who are called co-ordinators. All the programmes by the ministry should be done to the satisfaction of the women themselves. All we can do is advise them while they still enjoy the ministerial position.  

Mr Nkombo: Make the hay while the sun shines. 

Mr Muntanga: Sir, they should do the correct thing at all times. We do not want, at any one time, to tell them that we told them so. 

Sir, the amount of money for the Ministry of Gender and Child Development should be increased to solve the many problems that women face. 

I want to conclude by saying that …

Mr Nkombo interjected. 

Mr Muntanga: … the ministry should never segregate. 

Sir, certain ministries which have given hon. Ministers a lot of money. They draw fuel for other operations which are not related to the work of the ministry. Perhaps, I should ask the hon. Minister of Finance not to allow budgets for constituency visits. I am thinking of coming with a proposal to amend this fee and take it where it matters most, the women. 

Dr Kaingu: That is all, mwana naiwe, nikambeko naine.

Mr Nkombo: Ndiyanda kuya ku bola.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am sure that the hon. Minister heard when I said that I do not want this K120,000 to be misused. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chairperson: Any further debate? Hon. Dr Kaingu.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Dr Kaingu: Do not worry, the game is on break. 


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I will be very quick because I can see that my colleagues want to go and support their team. 

Mr Chairperson, education, especially for the people in the rural areas, is an investment. We send the girl child to school in the hope that after she completes school, she will look after herself and her parents. We sell a lot of animals to achieve this. Where is the hope when after completing school, the child has nowhere to go? This Government must focus its attention on what happens when a girl child leaves school. It is not enough to fight early marriages by going to collect the child from whoever married her.  What happens is that after bringing the child to a safe place and she goes back to school, a few months down the line, she goes back to the marriage because there is no hope for her. Is it better to eat your egg or wait for twenty-one days in the hope that it will hatch into a chick only to find that the egg is actually rotten? If a girl child has to go to school up to Grade 9 or 12, a period she is ready for marriage, and she does not find a job, it is as good as letting her get married. I am not supporting early marriage, but on urging this Government to look into providing what a child must do after completing school. 

Sir, I have noticed that the hon. Minister has an empowerment programme for women. In my opinion, this programme must be changed into a programme for affirmative action to mitigate the problems of a girl child so that when she leaves an early marriage, she is helped. All of us know that early marriages are a result of high levels of poverty. Therefore if we are going to have two ministries, the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, and the Ministry of Gender and Child Development pursuing similar empowerment programmes, we can merge the programmes into an affirmative action to mitigate the problems of the girl child.

Mr Chairperson, I am so grateful that the hon. Minister has put enough money in her budget to visit constituencies. This is how it should be because she should be an advocate for the observance of women’s rights and must visit all the constituencies. So, it is important that she puts money aside for fuel. Therefore, I do not agree with what the previous speaker said. 

I thank you, Sir.


Mrs Wina: Mr Chairperson, let me thank hon. Members who contributed to this debate, particularly Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo, for his observations on how this ministry can be effective in carrying out its mandate. One of the issues that Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo mentioned is that we need a new Constitution in order to domesticate the international instruments.  Let me assure the hon. Member that the PF Manifesto is very explicit on the issue of domestication of international instruments. As such, my ministry is working on domesticating the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) which will be brought to this House soon under the Gender Equality Bill. That is a positive measure that this ministry is taking.

Mr Chairperson, there were quite a number of issues that Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo raised including the fact that targeting 700 women’s club is a drop in the ocean. I agree with that, but the hon. Member should be aware that other ministries have programmes targeting the empowerment of women. This includes the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, Ministry of Youth and Sport, and Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, amongst others.

Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Muntanga …

Mr Muntanga: Yes, madam.

Mrs Wina: … for his observations and I believe that this House adequately addressed the issue of equitable distribution of resources from this ministry to all the constituencies.

Mr Muntanga indicated assent.

Mrs Wina: Sir, that is the reason we have an allocation in the Budget to visit all the constituencies. 

Sir, Hon. Dr Kaingu was emphasising the issue of girl child empowerment. That is one of our focus areas for 2015. I thank the hon. Members for their very valuable contributions which we will take into consideration.

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 04/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)



The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Sir, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1907 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 20th November, 2014.