Debates- Tuesday, 9th December, 2014

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 9th December, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE NAMIBIA NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Mr Speaker: I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following hon. Members of the National Council Standing Committee on Regional Developments and Reports of the Namibia National Assembly: …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … Hon. L. Tobias, MP, Chairperson; …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … Hon. A. Martin, MP, Deputy Chairperson; …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … Hon. B. P. Shekutamba, MP; …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … Hon. R. Kavara, MP; …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … the Legal Officer, Mr Benedict Likando; and …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Bo Likando.

Mr Speaker: Last, but not least, Ms A. N. Iita, Committee Clerk.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to receive our guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Bo Likando.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

POST-2015 DEVELOPMENT FRAMEWORK FOR STAKEHOLDER INPUTS

267. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Vice-President when the Government would present the Post-2015 Development Framework for stakeholder input.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, as the millennium development goals (MDGs) and other development initiatives at international level come to an end in 2015, preparations for the successor development agenda have reached an advanced stage through different initiatives. The United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development held in Rio de Janeiro in June, 2012 came up with a number of resolutions among which was the need to undertake consultations on the Post-2015 Development Agenda and the establishment of the open working group on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Both processes are aimed at ensuring that as many stakeholders as possible participate in chairing the course of the subsequent Global Development Agenda.

Sir, the Government, in conjunction with the United Nations Development Programme, undertook the first and second phase of the post-2015 consultations which focused on the priority areas and issues to be included in the Post-2015 Development Agenda. The citizenry participated at different levels and through different means of communication such as radio and television discussions, public places and dedicated online and social media platforms. Hon. Members of Parliament were among the stakeholders that were consulted and provided valuable input to the process.

Mr Speaker, with regard to coming up with the SDGs, the Government has facilitated an all-inclusive engagement of stakeholders, namely civil society, private sector, development partners and public sector by constituting a technical working group. The technical working group has since come up with a position paper which was a subject of discussion at the validation workshop on the second round of dialogue where stakeholders, including selected hon. Members of Parliament, participated. Given that this process is ongoing, the Government will continue to engage stakeholders until such a time when the development of the SDGs, including its targets, is fully concluded. Guided by the Zambian Position Paper on the SDGs, the Government will, then, move on to develop the 2015 Development Framework, based on factors and circumstances that are relevant to Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, most countries in Sub-Saharan Africa have already concluded their Post-2015 Development Frameworks. In his response, I would have expected the hon. Minister to have clearly given a time frame within which this will be concluded. Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister to be specific about the time frame so that we are, again, not found napping.

Mr Mwango: Sir, like I said, there are processes in place. So, we will inform the House as soon as we receive the Zambian Position Paper on the SDGs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CLASSROOM BLOCK CONSTRUCTION AT SIPALO PRIMARY SCHOOL

268. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the Government would construct a 1x3 classroom block at Sipalo Primary School in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, the construction of a 1x3 classroom block at Sipalo Primary School in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency will be considered in future plans to upgrade school infrastructure.

Currently, the focus of the ministry is to ensure that six classrooms, one toilet block and three teachers’ houses are constructed at Mulamatila and Luena Basic schools in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency

Sir, however, you may wish to note that, in 2014, each province was allocated funds to improve infrastructure at seven pole-and-mud primary schools. Each district submitted schools to be considered for this development. Hence, Kafula Primary School was selected. This was before the creation of Nkyema and Luampa districts.

Mr Antonio: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me this opportunity to raise this very serious point of order. 

Sir, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has been informing the nation and this House, on the Floor of this House, pertaining to the distribution of fertiliser and other inputs to the farmers. As such, we are made to understand that all these requisites have been given to the farmers in the various constituencies of Zambia. However, our people in various constituencies, especially in the Southern, Eastern, Western, Central and part of the Copperbelt provinces, are worried that despite the distribution of these inputs, there is a likelihood that we are going to witness a drought this year. As a result of that anxiety, the farmers expected the Government, through the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock and other ministries that are involved in determining and predicting the weather pattern, to inform the farmers pertaining to this issue.

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that those who are very shallow in wisdom can comment that like that.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, those are my problems.

Please, continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, I am raising this very serious issue pertaining to the looming drought on behalf of the farmers and the people of this country. Therefore, I would like to find out whether the Government is in order to remain quiet without advising the farmers and the general population of this country what is going to happen with regard to this looming drought, as it will affect the production of our agricultural produce this year and next year. This is in addition to the fact that when we take over Government on 20th January, 2015, …

Hon. Government Members: Question! Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: … we will have a serious problem of addressing this drought problem. Is the Government in order to remain quiet?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

In order to elicit a very specific response, and a focused response at that, I would urge and direct you to ask an urgent question which we will process with dispatch.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Will the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central continue, please.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, this school that I am talking about here …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Boko haram!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order. Is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga, in order to remain quiet by not informing this House and the nation whether the former First Lady, Mrs Maureen Mwanawasa, is allowed to participate in active politics whilst she enjoys certain benefits from the Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mucheleka: Mwamutina!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwila: Whenever she attends a rally, the Government provides fuel and security for her. Mr Speaker, I would like the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to inform this House whether the former First Lady is in order to actively participate in active politics.

 I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is perfectly in order to be silent on this subject.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: If the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili has a question to raise, he may, please, file a question.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, this school I have talked about in my question has no single block made of cement, and yet when I ask the hon. Minister of Education about it, I am told that this school will be considered in future. What future is being talked about when the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is leaving office in the next few days?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to clear the air. This Government will continue to be in power for the next fifty years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Mr P. Ngoma: Sir, for any school in any constituency to be noticed by the Government to be in need of upgrading, the request has to be made by the owners of the school, that is, those living in the constituencies, including us, hon. Members of Parliament. We need to indicate to the Government that there is a requirement for such a school to be worked on or to be upgraded and only then does the ministry headquarters come in to upgrade that school. So, as for now, what we are saying is that the ministry is concentrating on upgrading what it already budgeted for and also what is in its plans. Therefore, if next year, 2015, the ministry will have a request from the constituency that the school in question needs to be upgraded, the ministry will do as per the requirement.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, is the ministry aware about the state of this school?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware. As I have already explained, for now, the concentration is on upgrading all pole-and-mud schools which have been planned for. So, for now, their schools must wait.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister stated that part of the concentration now is on Kafula Primary School. Can he enlighten the House what has been done, so far, at Kafula Primary School in Luampa Constituency, knowing that the hon. Member of Parliament for Luampa, who is not paying attention, cannot ask for herself?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to state that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government will not take the path of the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), in terms of …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I am talking about the way the MMD would go about constructing so many schools at once even when there was no funding for such projects. So, as the PF, we do not want to take that route. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr P. Ngoma: So, in relation to the hon. Member’s question over Kafula Primary School in Luampa, I have already stated that the ministry has raised money, which has since been sent to various districts, so that the upgrading of schools can commence. That is where we are now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has admitted that he is aware, …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to stand there comfortably and say he does not want to go the Movement for Multi-party Democracy(MMD) way when the Patriotic Front (PF) has given contracts for the construction of schools and the contractors have not been paid, resulting in them leaving their sites. Is he in order to insinuate that the Government is paying the contractors when it has run this Treasury broke?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that if you want to follow up an issue, ask a question and you will get a response. The Speaker does not get enmeshed in these issues. 

You may continue, Hon. Miyutu.

Mr Miyutu: Sir, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that since the hon. Minister claims that he is aware of the state of the school in question, could he briefly explain the current condition of the buildings at that particular school.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, most of the schools which we are upgrading from pole-and-mud and grass thatched structures were submitted to the ministry headquarters by the districts. So, hon. Members of Parliament may have participated in selecting which schools should be upgraded. So, if this school in question was not indicated to us, then, it becomes very difficult for us to guess. Only when we are told that a certain school is supposed to be upgraded will it, then, be given the attention it deserves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is: Do you have personal knowledge of the state in which this school is?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I do not have personal knowledge. What I have is institutional knowledge.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

INFRASTRUCTURE CONSTRUCTION AT SHIMUMBI AND LUWINGU BASIC SCHOOLS

269. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the Government would release funds for the construction of infrastructure at Shimumbi and Luwingu basic schools, which have since been upgraded;

(b)    what infrastructure would be constructed at the schools; and

(c)    how much money the project would cost.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, in October, 2014, the Government released K100 million for school infrastructure development with each province being allocated K10 million. The first releases, amounting to K450,000, have been made to Shimumbi and Luwingu basic schools. The province is currently exhausting the procurement processes to pave way for the commencement of the construction works.

Sir, at each of the two schools, six classrooms, one toilet block and three teachers’ houses have been earmarked for construction. The total cost for each project is K1,455,389.00

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for that answer that the funds were released in the last quarter of 2014. However, I would like to find out whether this trend of late disbursement of funds will continue. This is seriously impacting negatively on our planning processes, particularly in relation to infrastructure development in schools. As a result, our pupils and teachers continue to be subjected to unfavourable conditions.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, although I am not competent enough to comment on a question that should have been directed to the hon. Minister of Finance, what I can say is that once the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education receives money from the Ministry of Finance, it is released to the provinces at supersonic speed. For instance, when K100 million was received, it was released to the provinces with expedience.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, with the money that has been released, the people of Chadiza would like to find out whether the community will be involved in molding and bringing other materials on site to construct these schools or if the Government will consider undertaking everything without community participation.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I am sure that Hon. Mbewe is aware that when we began this process of upgrading 220 primary schools into secondary schools, we did indicate to this august House that the process is through community mode. So, the community of Chadiza would be expected to provide some upfront materials for the construction of these schools.

I thank you, Sir.

CULTURAL VILLAGE CONSTRUCTION IN KABWE

270. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art:

(a)    when the construction of the cultural village in Kabwe, which has stalled, would resume;

(b)    whether the ministry was aware that the funds allocated for the project had been misused;

(c)    if so, what measures had been taken to ensure that the culprits were penalised; and

(d)    what measures had been taken to expedite the construction works.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr Evans): Mr Speaker, the construction of the cultural village shall resume only after a contractor to undertake the construction works, is engaged. So far, the bill of quantities for the completion of the wall fence has been prepared. This august House may wish to know that the works that have been previously undertaken on the project used a labour-based approach. In this case, labour was engaged directly to undertake construction without a contractor.

Sir, this approach has been deemed undesirable due to poor workmanship. To ensure quality construction, the ministry, in consultation with the Central Province Administration, has agreed to change the approach and engage a contractor instead.

Mr Speaker, the ministry cannot ascertain whether the funds allocated for the project were misused until a full forensic audit has been done. This is because there are still some building materials on site which have not been used. This august House may wish to know that the funds budgeted for by the ministry for the projects in 2013 were sent to the provincial administration in Kabwe. The provincial administration is managing the project.

Sir, measures can only be instituted once the forensic audit has been done and the result shows that funds were misused.

As I have stated, the ministry, in consultation with the provincial administration in Central Province, agreed to engage a contractor to undertake the construction works. This will expedite the works as compared to using the labour-based approach.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, what is the total cost of the project and time frame within which it is to be completed?

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, for the first part of the hon. Member’s question, we will get back to him because I do not have the figures at the moment. However, the project is expected to be completed in early 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

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MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNANCE, HOUSING AND CHIEFS’ AFFAIRS ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING’S REPORT ON THE SUMMARISED AUDITED ACCOUNTS OF COUNCILS FOR THE YEAR 2012

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the report of your Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs on the Report of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing on the Summarised Audited Accounts of Councils for 2012 for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 5th December, 2014.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mbewe: Sir, in considering the 2012 Report of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, your Committee was guided by its terms of reference, as set out in the Standing Orders. In performing its functions, your Committee is mindful of its role in ensuring that councils deliver quality service in an efficient and effective manner to local communities. This is so because local governance entails providing an opportunity to make a difference because councils greatly impact on the local people’s livelihood.

Mr Speaker, for this year, thirty-four councils have been named for various financial irregularities in the hon. Minister’s report. Your Committee is concerned with the type of accounting queries that were captured in the hon. Minister’s report. Common among them are the following:

(a)    irregular or wrong payments;
(b)    failure to retire imprest;
(c)    misuse or misapplication of Constituency Development Funds (CDF);
(d)    failure to prepare financial statements;
(e)    over-expenditure on Votes without preparing supplementary budgets;
(f)    non-updating of valuation rolls;
(g)    non-acquisition of title deeds for council properties;
(h)    limited capacity of financial departments;
(i)    weak or non-existent internal audit sections;
(j)    non-maintenance of fixed assets’ registers; and
(k)    missing payment vouchers.

Mr Speaker, these types of accounting queries mentioned above show that there is weak or a lack of supervision on the part of controlling officers in councils. It also signifies that councils have decided to deliberately not adhere to your Committee’s advice and directives. This can be seen from some controlling officers who have continued to appear before your Committee to answer not only queries of a similar nature, but also more queries. This makes the whole process an academic exercise. This is unacceptable.

Sir, your Committee further notes that council officers, who had committed serious irregularities, were merely transferred to other councils with minimal and, sometimes, without any serious reprimand. Unfortunately, this amounts to spreading problems from one council to another. The Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) was allowing these officers to get away with serious offences and thereby heightening the development of indiscipline and irresponsibility amongst council employees.

Most of the controlling officers who appeared before your Committee were new in the office, having been recently transferred. It was frustrating for your Committee to frequently encounter the excuse that the controlling officer was not in the office at the time that the accounting query took place.

Your Committee, therefore, urges the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, through the LGSC, to take corrective measures against erring controlling officers. Your Committee also urges the LGSC to establish a programme where council officers will be allowed to serve a minimum of two years before being transferred. This will allow them to settle down, gain knowledge of the local environment and develop capacity in order to work effectively. Your Committee also urges the commission to ensure that qualified manpower is deployed and retained in councils.

Sir, your Committee wishes to implore the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to ensure that the number of councils captured in the hon. Minister’s report for next year is further reduced.

Sir, in conclusion, let me take this opportunity to thank all town clerks, council secretaries, Ministry of Local Government and Housing and Auditor-General’s Office for their co-operation during your Committee’s deliberations. Your Committee further thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice rendered during its work. Finally, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance given to it.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Does the Seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Lubinda: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, let me start by commending the Chairperson of your Committee for the manner in which he chaired your Committee’s meetings. Let me also commend him for the manner in which he moved this Motion.

Sir, I would also like to put on record my appreciation of the members of your Committee on the thoroughness with which they handled the Minister’s Report on the Summarised Audited Accounts of Councils. 

Sir, the hon. Minister’s Report on Audited Accounts of Councils makes very sad reading because the matters that are raised therein should ordinarily not be reported on. There are matters that councils themselves should be able to dispose of without having to wait for auditors. 

Sir, sitting in meetings of your Committee and interviewing town clerks and Council Secretaries so often is a source of frustration because the same matters, and sometimes from the same councils, come back and forth year after year. There seems to be a tendency by councils to look upon Parliaments directives as mere rhetoric. They do not seem to take corrective measures after issues are raised by your Committee and passed by this House. 

Sir, in addition to the eleven audit queries that the Chairperson eloquently referred to, I would like to refer to an additional list of five. One frequent occurrence in these councils is the tendency by councils to keep obsolete motor vehicles. You just have to visit councils to see that their backyards have ended up being junk yards for scrap metal. Obsolete vehicles are littering all our councils without exception, this includes city councils. The reason given for this by some of the councils is that they are awaiting the approval of the Government Board of Survey or the Government controller of transport. I wonder where that is provided for in the law. 

A case in point, Sir, is one of the councils that was interviewed recently which reported it was waiting for the authority of the Government controller of transport before it could dispose of obsolete motor vehicles. This is not provided for in any statute. I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to clarify this matter with all councils so that councils are made aware of the fact that they have the authority to dispose of these obsolete motor vehicles in a timely manner. This because when the disposal is delayed, those vehicles just end up losing value. When they are sold ten years after they are declared obsolete, they are only worth the scrap yard, and yet if they were sold off earlier, councils would have, at least, generated a little revenue from them.

Sir, another matter is the lack of evidence of ownership of councils’ assets. A number of councils were reported as not having evidence of ownership of their assets, be they moveable or immovable assets. As you can imagine that is a very dangerous state of affairs. I am aware that it must cause headaches for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. In this day and age, it is very easy for people to misappropriate such assets if there is no evidence that they belong to the local authority.

Sir, my colleague and Chairperson spoke about misappropriation of resources, particularly financial resources. My worry with this is that, in many cases, theft of council financial resources is quickly treated as a loan or advance. To see that such matters are reported through the hon. Minister’s report raises worry for me and I am sure for all of us. How can a person who has misappropriated public funds be allowed to pay back that money using their leave benefits? After being caught stealing, who has the authority to say, “You have stolen, but you will not be punished instead, please, enter into an agreement that we deduct this money from your leave pay over a period of two years or one year, whatever the case might be.” I am not sure if any one of us here would want their private money to be treated like that by their employees. I want to appeal to the hon. Minister to ensure that theft is treated as such. Thieves ought to be apprehended and prosecuted. When a person openly steals from public resources, they must not be given a pat on the back and told that money will be deducted from their gratuity, instead, they must face the wrath of the law. I hope the hon. Minister will look into that matter.

Sir, all councils in Zambia, without any exception, are wallowing in poverty and have limited resources. The major source of funding for councils is through land rates. Sad enough, all the forty-four councils that appeared in the hon. Minister’s report indicated that their valuation rolls were out of date. They have not been updated over the last ten years or so. That, obviously, is denying councils their much-needed revenue. The reason for this is that the valuation is the preserve of the Government Valuation Department, which department itself lacks capacity. There are only a few officers at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing Headquarters who go round valuing properties in the jurisdictions of councils and that is the reason a lot of these council properties or ratable properties in councils have not been re-valued, in some cases, for more than a decade. I would like to urge the current Government to, after 20th January, 2015, when it retains governance, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Lubinda: … do what is expected of it by the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: To ensure that the valuation of council properties is decentralised, let us build capacities in the councils so that we do not have a backlog lasting for more than ten years.

Mr P. Ngoma: Quality!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, one matter that my colleague talked about, which I think must not go without being commented on, is the frequent transfers of staff. In many cases, except only for about two in the thirty-two other cases, we were addressing ourselves to officers who were passing the backlog to their predecessors because the queries occurred before they were transferred to those councils. There is, therefore, a lack of ownership of the query. In some cases, officers who misapplied resources had moved on to other councils and as a way of getting back the money, the councils have had to write to the hon. Minister to follow up on their behalf. Your Committee has two proposals. One is that no senior council officer must be transferred without an audit being conducted.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: If the Local Government Service Commission wishes to transfer a senior member of staff, it must liaise with the ministry to ensure that auditors audit and clear that officer before they are allowed to leave one station and move onto another.

In the event that there is difficulty with this suggestion, your Committee would like to seek permission from you and the House that, next year, when a similar report is presented before it, it has recourse to summoning officers who cause queries to appear before it so that there is no one who escapes and leaves problems in one council and goes to another council, knowing that they will not be reached. We wish to seek your authority to summon such officers so that they can account for their misdeeds. This way, we hope that all council staff will be held accountable and will ensure that they conduct council business with the honesty and integrity that is expected of them.

Sir, I wish to end by reiterating what I said earlier that the hon. Minister’s report makes sad reading. However, sitting in those meetings is a frustration. I submit, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, let me begin by thanking you and your Committee for the report. I am the first one to admit that there are, indeed, serious challenges. However, these problems are not insurmountable. We have taken note of the contents of the report and, going forward, will ensure that we pay serious attention to the measures that have been recommended in your report.

Sir, let me comment on a few of the issues that have been highlighted. Indeed, the bulk of the problems is as a result of inadequacies in financial and accounting skills in most local authorities. Currently, with these issues, we have stepped up training in this particular field with the help of our co-operating partners. It is my sincere hope that we will begin to see some improvements in this regard as we go forward. 

Mr Speaker, I also concede the fact that when problems occur, we should not transfer them to other councils, but deal with the disciplinary cases pertaining to particular members of staff. In this regard, we have counselled the Local Government Service Commission, which is the employer of council staff, to ensure that it institutes disciplinary action against officers who are found wanting other than transferring them to other councils. 

Mr Speaker, we have also insisted that when a theft occurs, the first thing to do is to report it to the law enforcement agencies. This culture of taking administrative action when a criminal offence has occurred is one that has encouraged people to continue to plunder public resources. We would like to insist that those that are found wanting be reported to the police. 

Mr Speaker, there are, indeed, challenges with registers of ownership of council assets but, again, this boils down to the first point that I raised of inadequate accounting and financial skills. It is so disheartening that some councils do not even have capacity to prepare budgets. In such a situation, how do you expect them to prepare accounts? However, the House may be comforted by the fact that with the advent of the Local Government Service Commission, we have been recruiting and deploying these skills to councils that lack them. So, the House may find comfort that all is not lost because we are doing something about it and that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank hon. Members, including Prof. Nkandu Luo, for supporting our report. We are really grateful for the support that they have given to your Committee. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNANCE, HOUSING AND CHIEF’S AFFAIRS ON THE REPORT OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL ON THE WATER AND SANITATION PROGRAMME SUPPORT PHASE I – MINISTRY OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chief’s Affairs on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Water and Sanitation Programme Support Phase I – Ministry of Local Government and Housing for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 5th December, 2014.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, your Committee, in performing its duties, was guided by its terms of reference as set out in the Standing Orders. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that in order to improve the well-being of all its citizens and to ensure that the country attains the millennium development goals (MDGs), the Government, with the support of the Danish International Development Assistance, introduced the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme in December, 2005. The programme was aimed at providing rural communities with access to safe water supply and was to be implemented in phases.

Sir, in order to assess its effectiveness, the ministry and its partners decided to carry out an audit whose report covered Phase I of the programme which started in 2006.

Mr Speaker, the objective of the audit was to assess the compliance of the water and sanitation programme support implementation, as specified in the agreement, and to measure its effectiveness on the provision of safe water supply in rural areas of Lusaka, Western and Southern provinces. 

Mr Speaker, the report revealed that although a total of 792 out of 865 boreholes, representing 92 per cent, were planned, and that the proportion of households with access to safe water had increased from 41 per cent in 2006 to 49 per cent in 2010, there were a number of challenges faced. The challenges included boreholes not drilled, but paid for, wasteful expenditure due to over payments on contract prices, poor borehole sitting, faulty equipment, and a lack of training of communities in the maintenance of facilities. 

Mr Speaker, this is very disturbing information. Your Committee further observed that contractors were usually procured from Lusaka and this created a problem in terms of supervision because distinct councils were expected to supervise the contractors despite the fact that they were not involved in the selection process. Some areas such as the Western Province have a unique terrain and contractors selected needed to have experience in drilling in areas with similar terrain. It appeared that the drillers that were recruited in the programme did not have experience in drilling in such areas, hence the challenges which were experienced when the works were being carried out.

Mr Speaker, in order to improve the situation, your Committee has come up with a number of recommendations and one of them is the adoption of a decentralised procurement system in which each province would be involved starting at the procurement level. This would lead to the selection of the best contractors with the necessary experience. It would further empower and improve supervision by local district councils.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by thanking all the organisations working in the water sector who took time off from their busy schedules to interact with us and share information with your Committee. Special thanks also go to the office of the Auditor-General and the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice rendered.

Mr Speaker, finally, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you for the guidance given to it. 

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Chansa: Now, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I would like to firstly congratulate the mover of the Motion for the able manner in which he has presented the Motion.

Mr Speaker, in its study of the Auditor-General’s Report, on the water and sanitation programme report Phase I, under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, your Committee had the rare privilege of interacting with several experts in the water sector. Through this interaction, your Committee was made fully aware of the importance of the provision of clean and safe water to all the citizens, especially the rural population which is facing major challenges in this sector. The improvement of the lives of the rural population and attainment of the MDGs were the major objectives of the implementation of the National Rural Water and Sanitation Support Programme in 2006. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee is, therefore, greatly saddened by the Auditor-General’s revelations of the several challenges encountered in the implementation of the programme. One of these challenges was the over payment of the contractors and the payment for works that have not been carried out.

Mr Speaker, this is a major blow to the country’s efforts at improving the lives of its citizens. Your Committee, therefore, strongly recommended the immediate refund of these funds so that they can be used in the rightful manner.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to add my voice to this subject, but I will be as brief as the seconder of the Motion was. 

Mr Speaker, I just want to comment on the serious issue of water in the rural areas. I see that from this report, I do not know what the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the councils are doing about it. Speaking for Luena, there is really a serious problem as regards the provision of safe and clean water. I do not see any kind of investment in putting up boreholes in that area and, the people are suffering. When it is very hot, there is prevalence of diseases like dysentery because people are not drinking clean water. If I were to ask the appropriate ministry how many boreholes it has sunk in Luena, it would tell us that it has sunk one or two or none at all. 

Mr Speaker, at the moment, in Limulunga …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

May I have order on the right?

Ms Imenda: … itself, there is a serious shortage of water in the Litunga’s Capital because the water authority there is using very old equipment to pump water. The authority’s tanks are leaking and I am told that the pumping machines only pump for a short while before getting very hot, prompting them to be switched off because they are so old. There is no investment in the water authority even though we have tried to get investment in borehole drilling in order to deliver water to the community. 

Mr Speaker, the equipment that was recently bought by the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development is not appropriate for the terrain of the Western Province. We were told, on the Floor of this House, that the equipment for drilling boreholes had been delivered to the rural areas, but when I checked the equipment that had been sent to the Western Province, I was told that those drilling rigs were inappropriate for the Western Province because they cannot get into the sand. The question that begs an answer is: Did nobody among the technical people, such as engineers, have knowledge that the terrain required appropriate equipment?

Mr Chairperson, as much as I am in agreement, I feel that councils, which must be supported by the current Government, need to do a bit more. Further, the Government that takes over after 20th January, 2015, must also address this issue. In its campaigns, it must tell us what it intends to do because we are not voting for anyone who is not telling us that we are going to drink clean water in Luena, Western Province, come 21st January, 2015. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, very old boreholes have been sunk in schools and other places. When these boreholes stop functioning and we ask the councils to repair them, we are given different answers and excuses. Sometimes, we are even asked to find other people to do the repair works. If the councils cannot repair such facilities, where do they expect the community to get the money to repair them? I think that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing should impress upon the councils and empower them with resources so that they can look at broken down boreholes. 

Mr Speaker, water is life and if people are not given safe drinking water, then, what are we saying? Are we going to allow the people to die of diseases? I said that I would be as brief as the seconder of the Motion. So, with these few words, I support the Motion. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this important Motion. My gratitude goes to the Chairperson of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs, who is the mover and seconder. 

Mr Speaker, water and sanitation begs the empathy of any government. Most rural areas, including Ikeleng’i, which has a lot of water, have contaminated water. I would have loved the Auditor-General’s Office to extend audits to all councils so as to reveal what exactly is happening on the ground. Some of the boreholes that were sunk years back are completely dry and councils do not care. They do not care whether the boreholes have water or not. Sometimes, the borehole can pump for two weeks but, after that, it dries up and it takes councils a century to check on it again.  

Mr Speaker, I have been to most rural parts of this country. Only a few days ago, I was in Sesheke. It is sad to see how people are suffering to draw water, and yet one of the biggest rivers, the Zambezi River, is just nearby. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the Zambezi River, which flows all the way from Ikeleng’i, has plenty of water, but the people of Sesheke and Mwandi have no clean drinking water. I came from Mwandi two days ago and the people’s cry is water. 

The Government has a social responsibility in this area to make sure that the people of Zambia are liberated by way of having access to clean water. We cannot suffer from waterborne diseases fifty years after Independence. We are in a different generation and we are asking those responsible in this Government to have pity. This is the only time you have to look at the poor.  

Mr Chairperson, I would love the Auditor-General’s Office to be given enough resources to carry out audits throughout the country. I am very sure that their findings would make very sad reading. Although the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is boasting about having done a lot, we are telling it that it needs to do more because whatever it has done leaves much to be desired.  

Mr Speaker, it is sad to find human beings sharing water with animals. This is reality. People are talking about dams and canals and nothing is happening. I would like to urge the Auditor-Generals’ Office to specifically look at water and sanitation because it affects most of the areas we come from, including the urban compounds. 

The money that the Government appropriates should be put to good use and good use entails looking at the poor person. There should never be segregation when it comes to water and sanitation. Management policies should target the correct people. This is one area where you do not disburse monies and forget about it to an extent where you do not know what is happening. You will find that billions of kwacha yield nothing, and yet money is being invoiced in an exaggerated manner. There are people who claim to have used the money for drilling boreholes which dry up three or four weeks later and nobody seems to care. There should be a change. 

Mr Speaker, I do not want to bore you. I simply want to emphasise the point that this report is very important and that the Auditor-General’s Office should go from council to council to see how the people of Zambia are suffering because we are not doing enough. 

With these few words, I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I stand to add my voice to the debate on this report. 

Mr Speaker, indeed, for some of us who come from rural constituencies, water has been a problem. We have, however, had some co-operating partners like the Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) who have really tried to help and sort out the issue of water problems in rural constituencies. 

Sir, I do recall that in 2012 and 2013, DANIDA gave all constituencies K312,000 and K800,000, respectively. The mover, in his report, lamented that the contractors are being over paid. I agree for the simple reason that there is no supervision from the Ministry of Local Government Housing. The ministry is not helping matters at all in these councils. For instance, one constituency in the Southern Province bought a rig in an effort to reduce water problems. It was discovered that the council employees were misusing the rig and when the money from DANIDA was given, the cost of sinking a borehole came up to about K20,000, which is uncalled for. Auditors would be sent to councils such as Namwala, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The consultations on my right are rather loud.

Continue, hon. Member for Namwala.

Ms Lubezhi: … but at the end of the day, the reports would simply be shelved somewhere within the Ministry of Local Government and Housing without action being taken. This is despite the people in the rural constituencies continuing to suffer by sharing drinking water with animals, as Hon. Muchima said. As long as the Patriotic Front (PF) Government continues to shield people who misappropriate such funds, we will neither move nor help our electorate in any way as far as water issues are concerned. 

I believe that the PF Government was voted into office to shield these officers in the local councils who embezzle funds meant for the electorate.

Mr Speaker, as the mover mentioned, as much as council workers are not involved at the time when contractors are being awarded contracts, I believe that it is their duty to follow up any projects in their districts …

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: … and that is the reason we have District Development Co-ordinating Committee (DDCC) meetings. However, nothing seems to happen even when these issues are brought to the attention of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Sir, I stand here as a very disappointed hon. Member of Parliament because of the way that these councils misuse funds meant for the poor. I also stand here as a disappointed hon. Member of Parliament because the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is not there in the districts and when we make efforts to report these things, they refer us to the commission. This is why I feel that the Local Government Commission is not helping matters at all. When you go to the commission, the commissioners will tell you that the matter is being handled by the ministry and when you go to the ministry, they will tell you that it is being handled by the commissioners.

Mr Speaker, I do not know whether we should just scrap off the Ministry of Local Government and Housing altogether and just remain with districts. Maybe, the districts should start running the affairs of their councils because, as it is now, even erring officers at a council cannot be fired at district level. The matter would have to go to the ministry in Lusaka which will then tell you that it has to go to the commissioner. What are we doing?

Sir, this is why I am saying that the PF Government is not helping matters at all. There are reports in our councils that show that the councils have misapplied the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The same district which I said bought a rig received about K500,000 to sink boreholes, but by the time we sat for the CDF meetings and full council meetings, we realised that the money which had been allocated and the boreholes which had been sunk did not tally. 

Mr Speaker, for how long are we going to continue like this while this Government claims to be pro-poor? How can it claim to be a pro-poor Government when it is busy shielding thieves? 

Sir, with these few remarks, I beg to support the report.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this chance to add my voice to the debate in support of the report.

Sir, I have a few issues to raise concerning water and sanitation in the district councils. While we appreciate the fact that most of these boreholes are funded by donors, I would like to suggest to the ministry that it speaks to some of the donors so that our water needs are taken on a case-by-case basis. I say this because some councils do not fully appreciate these boreholes as they do not add value to the lives of our people. 

I will give an example of the districts in the valleys. We do not refuse to accept these boreholes because they have already been given to us. However, even though we receive them, we know that they will not do a good job as most of them dry up by August. We do not use them throughout the year because of the water table that is too low to be reached even with the deepest rigs.

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the ministry to treat these issues on a case-by-case basis. For example, those of us who live in Chirundu and Siavonga have plenty of water and all we need is a system of pulling that water from the reservoirs into the areas where it is needed. However, what we receive are boreholes that can only serve us for a few months in a year and we just accept them because we do not seem to have a choice. I am appealing to the ministry to look into that issue.

Sir, further, some may wonder why we do not just draw water from its source. There are people who live beside Lake Kariba who can draw water from the lake, but that place is infested with crocodiles. This year alone, we have buried over eight people as a result of crocodile attacks in Chirundu District. This is unacceptable when we have a Government that is supposed to treat human life as sacred. When we try to attack these crocodiles in self defence, we are told that it is illegal. When we call the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officers to assist in this cause, all they do is scare them away. However, the crocodiles do more than scare us, they kill us. 

Mr Speaker, could we not convert some of the money that is meant for boreholes into pipes, engines and whatever else it takes to pull this water from the lake to where we need it? Our animals are also affected. The last time I debated this issue, I was advised by the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art to be careful and devise a way of co-existing with these beasts.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: With crocodiles? 

Mr Hamudulu: Yes! The people of Chirundu and Siavonga were not amused by that answer and neither was I. We expected the hon. Minister to look at the plight of human beings before he looked at that the plight of animals. We can be friendly, but we do not expect our colleagues, the crocodiles, to also be friendly towards us.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: I am sure you are not suggesting that they are our colleagues.

Laughter 

Mr Hamudulu: This is what we have been told. Since the Government wants us to co-exist with the crocodiles, they become our colleagues. The hon. Minister is telling us that we should live with them and we can only live with colleagues. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamudulu: This is the situation that is obtaining in most of the districts in the valley and it is not acceptable.

Sir, the hon. Minister and his colleagues from the Ministry of Tourism and Art should devise a way of making sure that we do not come into contact with those beats. Unless there is a way of training them to co-exist with us, which I do not see happening, we should not come into contact with them. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: We will continue fighting with them and this time, at the expense of breaking the law. I may instruct those people to kill crocodiles on site because that is what crocodiles do. I want to be the first one to be arrested for killing a crocodile that has killed a human being so that we can prove that animal life is more important than human life for the Government.

Ms Lubezhi: The pro-poor Government. 

Mr Hamudulu: If we are to encounter a crocodile in Butete in Siavonga District, …

Ms Lubezhi: Kill.

Mr Hamudulu: …  we are going to kill it and we dare you to arrest us because you have to protect human life.

Mr Speaker, putting up a pipeline comes with a number of advantages. The first advantage that may not be appreciated by our colleagues here or anyone who does not live in this area, is that water from the Zambezi is very nice to drink. 
It has that natural test of water unlike the borehole water which we are forced to drink. I am saying forced because when we were relocated from where our forefathers were before, we were promised that we would continue drinking that water from the Zambezi and the pipelines were laid down by the first Government after Independence.  

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, somebody is trying to tell me that my time is up. I still have time and am debating. 

Mr Speaker: Order! Just ignore those gestures.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, indeed, after Independence, the first Government laid down those pipes, but this is not enough because our population has swelled up and there is also a lack of maintenance. Most of this infrastructure has dilapidated. We, therefore, urge the Government to revitalise the tanks that are in existence. All we need is to put up new pipes and new engines so that we are back on track. Hon. Minister, that is food for thought for you. Please, think about this. Yes, we accept the boreholes but, please, find a way of converting this money so that we can actually channel it to a project that will really help our people in those areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, once again, let me thank you and your Committee for the report. I also want to thank all the hon. Members of this august House who have contributed to the debate on this Motion. 

Sir, we have taken note of your concerns and recommendations of your report and will definitely work on them. Indeed, water is life. The Government’s commitment to improve and provide water and sanitation services cannot be questioned. In the past, we have highlighted, on the Floor of this House, the various projects that the Government is undertaking to build water reticulation systems, to rehabilitate old infrastructure and also to continue to sink boreholes in the rural areas. We did circulate the schedule of the works that were done in various constituencies. They were put in the pigeonholes of all the hon. Members of Parliament. We will continue to provide more resources so that we improve the national water coverage. 

Mr Speaker, I must say that, indeed, we had serious challenges in accountability. In the early stages, there was no supervision and as a result of this, all sorts of things happened. There was no real value for money but, now, we have since employed engineers at all provincial levels. They will ensure that they supervise these works and demand value for money for the works that the Government has contracted out. It is our sincere hope that with these measures, together with the building capacity at council level, we will ensure more enhanced accountability. We have, therefore, taken note of the recommendations of your report. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would to thank the hon. Member for Luena, the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, the hon. Member for Namwala and the hon. Member for Siavonga for debating on this report. Their contributions have really added value to our findings of the Committee.

Mr Lubinda: Aah!

Mr Mbewe: Sir, I also want to thank Hon. Kapeya for supporting the report of your Committee silently. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.  
_________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 88 – (Muchinga Province  –  K59,680,767),  VOTE 90 – (Lusaka Province – K78,223,842), VOTE 91 – (Copperbelt Province – K89,346,969), VOTE 92 – (Central Province – K82,583,724), VOTE 93 – (Northern Province – K88,892,707), VOTE 94 – (Western Province – K85,478,130), VOTE 95 – (Eastern Province, K81,925,248),  VOTE 96 – (Luapula Province – K79,732,554), VOTE 97 – (North-Western Province – K78,353,309) and VOTE 98 –(Southern Province – K101,815,912).

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the people of Kaputa, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to support the budget estimates for the Northern Province. 

Mr Chairperson, to start with, I want to indicate that just like other provinces that we have in this country, the Northern Province has received a fair share of the development brought about by the leadership of our departed late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, with his hon. Ministers. May His Soul Rest in Peace. 

Sir, I will start with the infrastructure development in the Northern Province. I know that there are two of my colleagues that debated and painted a gloomy picture that nothing at all has happened in the Northern Province, which I do not agree with, as I will highlight in my debate.

Sir, I looked at the road infrastructure in the last three years. I know there was no road between Kasama and Mbesuma Bridge but, at the moment, as you get there, there is a first class standard road in place. It is a fantastic road that the people of Mungwi and Mbesuma are actually enjoying because this has been a very interesting and good development. Other than these roads, there was no road of bitumen standard that one would talk about between Kasama and Mporokoso. 

As I speak, this infrastructure is 90 per cent done. It would take us about seven hours to travel from Kasama to Mporokoso, but we now take about two hours to reach Mporokoso and these are good developments that have happened in the Northern Province. Although the construction of a road between Mbala and Nakonde has taken long, the portion that has been upgraded is something that one can admire and one can tell that it will be a masterpiece of a road once the works are completed.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the township roads in Mpulungu. Those that travelled to Mpulungu between 2011 and now will confirm that Mpulungu looks very different from how it used to be …

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: … because almost all the township roads in Mpulungu have been worked on. The works are marvelous. Let me also talk about the township roads in Kasama.

Mr Mucheleka: What about Kaputa?

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, the person who is lamenting passes through Kasama and he can attest that Kasama has developed. He should also understand that the Government develops these areas stage by stage and not at the same time because that is what development is all about.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, almost all the roads in Kasama have been upgraded and this has happened during the leadership of the Patriotic Front (PF) because these developments were not there under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, those that went to Mungwi Secondary School used a footpath to get to the school, but it is now a different scenario because there are good roads there …

Mr Lubinda: And Mucheleka can testify.

Mr Ng’onga: … and Hon. Mucheleka can testify to that.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament …

Mr Konga: Who is misleading the people of the Northern Province.

Mr Mucheleka: … who is debating and misleading the people of the Northern Province in order to drag me into his debate when he also knows very well that roads in Kaputa have not been worked on? For example, the Kaputa Road via Nsama has not been worked on and he knows, as well as I do, that he will not even be able to travel back to Kaputa if that road is not worked on. I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: You have debated your point of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Ng’onga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I am grateful because I needed a witness to testify about the development of roads in the Northern Province. However, let me now talk about what the PF needs to do to further improve the road infrastructure in Zambia and this will be at a time when our able leader, Hon. Edgar Lungu, will continue on the path of bringing about progress in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, the PF Government will work on the Mpika/Kasama, Mporokoso/Kaputa, Mporokoso/Kawambwa roads and the Kasaba Bay International Airport.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: This is some of the infrastructure that the PF, led by our able leader, will embark on through a programme of continuity and stability.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, let me now move to the area of energy and power supply in the province. As I speak, the Lunzuwa Hydro Power Station …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about the energy and power supply in the province. I want to state that the Lunzuwa Hydro Power Station has been completed and is awaiting commissioning. Therefore, very soon, this power station will supply power to most areas in the Northern Province. The Pensulo/Kasama Transmission Line Project is another huge project which will bring a lot of benefits to the people of the Northern Province. However, the Lumangwe/Kalungwishi Hydro Power Project whose completion we have all been awaiting is in the pipeline and we hope that this project will come to flourish in the nearest possible time so that power is not an issue in the province.

Sir, let me now talk about education infrastructure in the Northern Province. The province has nine districts and there will be a secondary school or more in each district, which was not the case in the past. As I speak, there are secondary schools that are being constructed in Lupososhi, Lunte and Mpulungu and a secondary school is earmarked for construction in Nsama District. A secondary school has also been constructed in Kaputa and another is yet to be constructed in Katuta, in Luwingu District. These development infrastructure projects will be embarked on by a well-focused and dedicated Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: … that has put plans in place to ensure that, henceforth, the people of the Northern Province are not left out. Some hon. Members that debated before me stated that this province has not been considered for development, but I am glad that I have corrected that impression.

Mr Chairperson, on secondary school infrastructure, I would like to appeal to the Government to improve and increase the disbursement of funds.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, in the House!

Mr Ng’onga: Sir, I am appealing to the Government to improve the disbursement of these funds so that this particular infrastructure can be completed in the shortest possible time. This way, our children will enjoy the benefits of being governed by a Government that cares.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, allow me to also talk about health infrastructure and also the health delivery system. 

Sir, I am on record as having said that the health sector has performed extremely well. This is evidenced by what transpired in 2011, if I remember well. We had challenges of Malaria incidences and a number of our children in Kaputa were killed. I am glad to say that the health sector performed very well not only in terms of service delivery, but also infrastructure development. Additional clinics and health posts have been built in different districts of the province. The plans to build 650 health posts, which we have been waiting for, are in place. Most districts will have nine health posts per district, hence they will add a lot of value to the areas of the Northern Province, as the distances to cover in order to access health services will be shortened.

Hon. Opposition Member: What about agriculture!

Mr Ng’onga: Chairperson, as I am speaking, I can hear one of the speakers, who is debating while seated, talking about agriculture. I would like to inform the hon. Members of the House that the Northern Province will soon be called the bread basket of the country. This is because there has been a lot of improvement in agricultural production. When you look at the records, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I believe that there is only one speaker in this House. The hon. Member debating on the Floor is indicating that there is a speaker who wants to talk, but is doing so while seated. Is the hon. Member in order not to identify which speaker it is because we only know one speaker here. Is he in order to insinuate that you are itching to speak about agriculture while seated?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Now, this should serve as a reminder to all hon. Members that there is only one Speaker in this House. Persons debating could be referred to as “the person debating” or “the hon. Member on the Floor.”This is just a reminder.

With that in mind, hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa, continue your debate.

Mr Ng’onga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I was basically talking about how the province has fared in terms of agricultural production as well as the issue of payments to farmers for the maize crop, which some people have already referred to. For those of us in Kaputa and Nsama who fall under Luapula Province as our reporting centre, under the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), it has been reported that the money for Luapula Province, including all the districts such as Kaputa, has been disbursed. Within this week, our farmers will be paid. So, for us, that is not really a problem.

Interruptions

Mr Ng’onga: I am not defending the Government, but all I am saying is that it is working very hard to ensure that all the farmers are paid. Hence, this will not be an issue to use during campaigns. It will be an issue of the past because farmers know that this is a caring Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Ng’onga: Sir, before I conclude, I just wanted to revert to the issue of funds allocated to the province. If we are to look at the budgeted figures and what we have received, as a province, I think we have not received anywhere near 80 per cent of the allocated amount. It has been less than that. I would, therefore, urge the provincial administration to release funding closer to the actual allocation so that as we implement what we have budgeted for, we are sure that we have received the funds. 

For this reason, I would urge the hon. Minister of Finance and other hon. Ministers that are involved in the disbursement of these funds to improve. I also wish to remind them that the funds that have been appropriated in the 2015 Budget are critical to our province if all outlined projects are to be achieved. Otherwise, it would be difficult for us to achieve these developmental projects if we are not receiving the funds as budgeted for and at an appropriate time.

Sir, on the issue of water and sanitation, I would like to state that it still remains an area that needs to be improved, especially looking at the way Chambeshi Water Supply has been conducting its business. The hon. Minister for Northern Province should ensure that he props up this particular institution because it has not performed to its expectations in the province.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: We all want our people to access water as we all know that water is life. Fortunately, for us in Kaputa, we are grateful that there is a K26.7 million water project that is underway.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: We are hoping that in the first quarter of 2015, this project will be completed. We will be supplying clean and fresh drinking water to the people of Kaputa. Therefore, I wish to commend the Government for this gesture.

Mr Chairperson, I am hoping that our incoming President, Hon. Edgar Lungu, come 20th January, 2015, will take over power and continue because the programmes are already in place. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: All his hon. Ministers are intact. His Cabinet is fully represented here and I see no reason he would fail to deliver. The people of Zambia will give him the mandate to deliver.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Vote for the Eastern Province.

Sir, in the Eastern Province, we are an agriculture-oriented people. For us, once agriculture is not properly handled, then, you are actually going into a collision path with the people of the Eastern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: We grow a lot of maize, tobacco, soya beans, groundnuts, sorghum and other crops. In the meantime, I will talk about crops. If these crops that we produce are not bought, how do you expect the economy of the Eastern Province to tick? We have been injured and we will definitely indicate our displeasure next month, as we vote.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, I will quickly talk about the issue of Chipata/Muchinji Railway Line. I wish to state that we are grateful that the project was completed and that there is a linkage between Zambia and Malawi, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Mr Mtolo: … but I would like to clearly indicate that as long as that railway line is not connected to the main grid, it is going to remain at 50 per cent if not less of its use. We need that railway line to be connected to the main grid.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I would briefly like to talk about is on general country and town planning. The Eastern Province, as is the case with many areas, is absolutely unplanned. What we are doing to our country is that we are planning a shanty country and not a country of cities.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: I am urging this Government to consider proper town and country planning as it embarks on creating new districts such as Sinda, Vubwi and Chiparamba. Let us assist the local council as the Central Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, to plan our towns. Let us have a block plan for the entire town. I hope that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is paying attention and taking note of what we are saying. You cannot have a situation where the only areas planned are under State control. Areas which are not under a State control are being planned by individuals and the development which you are seeing is a very shameful picture of what Zambia is supposed to be.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I have always said that if you want to see how unplanned our province is, just go to Mwami Border and you will see what is happening there. Beautiful land is not being planned properly. By the time you go there to correct that situation, you will correct the setting up of a shanty compound and not anything to be proud of. Meanwhile, Zambia is growing.

Sir, I will quickly move to the issue of water. It is a shame that in the Eastern Province, we are still sharing water holes with animals, including wild animals. If you went to the four main townships in Chipata Central, which this House is very proud of and is about to give city status, you will be very sad to note that there is no piped water. There are very few tapped points, which you call, …

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to say that there is no piped water in Chipata when his party was in Government three years ago and the President, at that time, came from the Eastern Province? That President, who failed to improve the water reticulation system, is contesting the Presidency again because he believes that he will win.

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: The serious ruling is that he said that in some townships of Chipata and not the entire district. 

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I am speaking as a Member of Parliament for Chipata Central, and what I am saying is that we do not have piped water in most areas.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this important point of order. Those of us who are Members of Parliament from the Southern Province are very worried that, as we debate the provinces, our Provincial Minister is under threat of being arrested under the instigation of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. The PF, through the chairperson of the party …

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and an hon. Cabinet Minister, has instituted contempt proceedings against our hon. Minister. As a result, he will not be in a position to listen to the issues that we are going to raise because he is very afraid.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, are the PF Members in order to threaten our old man, who strove to ensure that the PF became popular in the Southern Province, and to not want him in their party?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

The Chairperson: I am sure they will sort that problem out. 

Hon. Government Member: We will sort it out.

The Chairperson: Hon. Member for Chipata Central, you may continue.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I wish to reiterate the point that it is very shameful that 2014 is ending and most of the areas in Chipata Central still do not have piped water. In the four major townships that we have, namely Navutika in Kapata, Muchini, Magazine and Referendum compounds which are all areas with a very high population ...

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mtolo: … to date, are isolated points.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised, and this will be the last one for today.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I have been listening very attentively to the debate by my good friend, Hon. Mtolo Phiri. I hear him lamenting the lack of water in a village called Navutika. Would he really expect a village which goes by a name such as Navutika to have water?

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: If they had water, would they not change their name from Navutika to Nakondwela or something like that?

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Sir, is he in order not to go to Navutika to change the name first from a negative name to a positive one so that the Government will be encouraged to provide water there?

The Chairperson: Well, it is not him who named that compound. Some people named it and he is merely mentioning the name that was given by others. 

You may continue, hon. Member for Chipata Central.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I am happy that my debate is attracting a lot of attention, including that of the people from Mahopo. It is wrong that in 2014, a Jubilee Year, most Zambians living in the townships that I mentioned should queue up for water at kiosks. I think it is wrong for us to comfortably sit here in our neckties and talk about Zambia almost being rated a B-economy country in Africa when people are still getting water from ponds.

Sir, even as the people get water from ponds, the Government has not provided for proper water reticulation. In the Eastern Province, Chipata in particular, there are very few areas which are connected to proper sewer systems. What that means is that almost all the households, with more than 600,000 people, are using septic tanks for their modern bathrooms and toilets, and yet there are boreholes dotted all over. The water in the Eastern Province is totally impure, and yet it is being used by the people there and the hon. Minister can challenge me when I talk about water. It is very shameful.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about tourism. The Eastern Province is a tourism hub. The province has very powerful, attractive and pleasant ceremonies, and not only the Kulamba Traditional Ceremony of the Cewa and the N’cwala of the Ngoni which are famous. We also have smaller ceremonies like those in the valley which are very colourful. 

Therefore, I want to urge most of these hon. Members to attend these beautiful ceremonies in Petauke, Lundazi and the valley areas in order to see what I am talking about. However, these ceremonies do not receive any support and so, I want to urge the Government to seriously look at supporting these ceremonies which are attended by a lot of tourists. It is a shame to see what our tourists go through when they visit these areas just to see our people as they showcase our good tradition.

Sir, in Chipata, we also have bushmen rock paintings. Year in and year out, I have said that these rock paintings are being destroyed by people who tear off pieces of rock on which these paintings are and take them away. I can confirm that since I came to Parliament in 2011 and started talking about this, nothing has happened. 

Mr Mwaliteta: Are you sure?

Mr Mtolo: Yes. I am very sure that nothing is happening. Even after the Government tried to take me out of this House, but I came back, I continued talking about it. However, nothing is being done about it and that is not right. I do not know who the Government will listen to if it cannot listen to its own hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, let us also take note that the Eastern Province, and Chipata in particular, is the gateway to the South Luangwa National Park, which is one of the best parks in the world. It is also a gateway to Malawi and Mozambique. Therefore, I want to encourage the Ministry of Tourism and Art to take a bit more interest in this area.

Mr Chairperson, the sixth issue that I want to talk about is the hydro-electric power situation in the province. The other day, I listened attentively as the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development said load shedding had reduced. I can assure you that if you picked up a phone now and called Chipata, you would be told that the district is in darkness. There is load shedding almost every day when it used to be every other day. So, we are wondering where the electricity that the country is producing is going. We are approving money in this House, meant for improving our power stations. So, where is this power being taken if the Government cannot give it to its own people?

Sir, I think we should not be like some of our neighbouring countries which are major producers of power, and yet the power goes very far away, and sometimes almost out of Africa. This is happening when some citizens in these countries do not have access to electricity. I think we should be careful so that we do not end up like them.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on the right!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, the other issue I want to talk about is the planning of our towns. I want to reiterate that each town in Zambia has its own identity. Chipata in the Eastern Province has its own identity and one of its landmarks is the golf course in the centre of the town. It also has a beautiful river that runs through the town. 

I am appealing to the Government not to allow the defacing of Chipata. We want that golf course to remain the way it is. We do not want shopping malls which are dumping grounds for products of the West to be constructed there. In other words, we want our Chipata to remain the way it is.

Sir, let me also talk a bit about the Provincial Tender Committee in the Eastern Province. I hope the hon. Deputy Minister for the province and group from Cabinet Office are listening. Two years ago, we allocated money for the purchase of a refuse truck under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). To date, this garbage truck has not been bought. If a Provincial Tender Committee cannot help us on such a matter, who will? The K700,000 we allocated for this truck is locked up somewhere, and yet its purchase would have helped the Government’s efforts to clean up Chipata. So, what type of Government is this?

Sir, let me also talk a little bit about roads. There are a number of main and feeder roads that have not been worked on in the Eastern Province. Let me just mention a few. Under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, there is the Chipata/Chama/Lundazi Road. However, only the part from Chipata to Chama has been worked on. The other part from Chama to Lundazi still remains unattended to. Why is there this selective arrangement as regards working on the road? Why were works on the entire road not fully funded? Therefore, I am appealing to the Government to look at things more proactively and fairly so that the whole of this road is worked on.

Sir, I will quickly move to education. The PF Government promised to construct a lot of schools in the Eastern Province. For example, in Chasefu Constituency, there is Kapekesi Basic School whose construction started around 2009. Up to now, its construction is not yet complete. In Lumezi Constituency, there is Lumimba Day High School whose construction was also started in 2009, but has not yet been completed. In Senior Chief Mwase’s area in Lundazi, there is Umi School whose construction began sometime in 2008 or 2009 but, to date, it has not been completed. All that was supposed to have been constructed at this school were two classroom blocks, but alas, this has not been done. Another example is the Chipata Day Secondary School. On the Floor of this House, the hon. Minister promised that a 1 x 3 classroom block would be constructed at this school. It has now been years without that happening. Therefore, I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to remember us on these issues.

Sir, we applied to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication for a number of communication towers to be constructed in the Eastern Province. We need a tower at Magwero in Chipata. This place has an influx of people from Luapula and the Northern provinces who go there to seek our assistance on blindness, dumbness and deafness. Our colleagues on your right should provide towers at this place, especially that the people who go there are their brothers and sisters. 

Sir, other places that need communication towers are Madzimoyo, Kulikuli in Lundazi, Munyukwa, Mutwalo and Elijah. Since I have been given this privilege to stand and speak today, I am appealing to Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga to assist us with the towers that we applied for.  

Sir, seeing that time is gone, I would like to conclude by saying …

Mr Muchima: Just continue.

Mr Mtolo: I am being told that I should just continue, Sir.

Finally, I would like to make a remark on something that I have talked about before and will continue talking about. This is the African Swine Fever. I am appealing to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to do something about this. Let us start working on eliminating this disease.

Sir, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Chairperson, I am now eight years old in this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Only?

Mr Mwila: Therefore, I have a history to talk about. Those who are making noise that this Government is doing nothing should ask themselves what they did in the twenty years that they were in power.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, these are the people I am talking about. They did nothing …

The Chairperson: Order!

A point of order has been raised. 

However, you will remember that I had said that I would not allow anymore points of order, as the previous debater was on the Floor because they were too many. So, I am watching the situation carefully.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank you for this opportunity to raise this point of order which, in my view, is very important. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili, who says he has been in this House for eight years, has referred to the debate of other hon. Members as noise. Is he in order to do that?

The Chairperson: Well, if he was referring to the debates of other hon. Members of Parliament as noise, then, he was out of order.

The hon. Member for Chipili may continue.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, those who were in power for twenty years have to accept that they did nothing.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: The people of Luapula will not forget the late President Mwanawasa because he built the Levy Mwanawasa Bridge at Chembe. During the campaigns for the last general election, we told the people of Luapula that since the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) had neglected them by not bringing development to the province, they should vote for the Patriotic Front (PF) and they did. A total of 151,288 votes were what they gave to the PF. The United Party for National Development (UPND) got 1,542 votes in Luapula Province.

Hon. PF Members: Only?

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, we have been in power for three years …

Mr Ng’onga: Bwekeshapo. Tatumfwile, mwana.

Mr Mwila: Sir, I am saying we have been in power for only three years. Those who are saying we have done nothing have to compare our performance with that of our predecessors. You may recall that our predecessors were only sharing the construction of schools amongst their constituencies. When we complained, they did not listen until they were voted out.

Mr Musonda: That is when they listened.

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, my colleagues will agree with me that under the previous regime, the Mukambo/Chembe/Mansa/Kashikishi Road was in a deplorable state. However, the late President Sata repaired this road. Further, the Pedicle Road is being tarred as we speak.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Therefore, Luapula Province is benefiting from this Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Other roads that are being tarred are the Mansa/Luwingu, Kawambwa/Mushota, Musaila/Kasaba and Chiengi/ Kaputa roads, which our colleagues seated there failed to work on.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, if they will come to campaign in Luapula, I can tell you what will happen to them. I am not threatening them.

Mr Ng’onga: Some of them are running away.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Chansa: They will waste time.

Mr Mwila: … we have worked on these roads and the only road remaining to be worked on is the Mansa/Milenge Road, which will be worked on in the Phase III. So, this is what the PF Government has done in terms of road infrastructure development.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on secondary school construction, we are building a boarding school in Mushota, which is under Pambashe Constituency. A boarding secondary school in Mwenda is being built. A secondary school in Mambilima is also being built. The PF Government is building a university in Mansa.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Chansa: In three years.

Mr Mwila: It is also building a technical college in Mwense Constituency, which is almost complete. Mr Chairperson, these are things people are able to see for themselves.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, do you expect the people to vote for the United Party for National Development (UPND), …

Hon. PF Members: No, no!

Mr Mwila: … which does not even have structures in Luapula?

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, there is also Chishinga Ranch, which the MMD failed to revamp. We have the Luena Farm Block in Kawambwa. So, the PF Government has done a lot in the three years it has been in the Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chansa: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mwila: We are going in the field to prove to those who have been telling us that we are unpopular that we have actually performed.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: We have performed and that is the reason the people of Luapula ... 

Mr Nkombo: Discuss the Budget.

Mr Mwila: We are talking about provinces. The people of Luapula have resolved to bring back the PF, …

Mr Chansa: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … under the leadership of Hon. Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: They have not yet heard.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, we, in the PF, had a President …

Ms Kapata: A man of action.

Mr Mwila: … who was very practical and a man of action, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace. All these projects I have talked about were done under him. Under his leadership, we were given boreholes, more districts were created and jobs have been created in Mwansabombwe, Lunga and Chipili.

Mr Chansa: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, in terms of development, the PF Government has done extremely well and that is why you have seen our colleagues have become quiet.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Sir, it is because they know that what I am talking about is what is obtaining on the ground.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I rise on a point of order.

Mr Mukanga laughed.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: When you were debating, I kept quiet.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, my point of order is of a serious nature. You have always advised that when a colleague is debating, we must be quiet whether they are making sense or not.

Mr Mwaliteta: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, you have advised that we should do that whether they are contradicting themselves or not. However, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to invite us to disturb the proceedings of this House …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … by inviting us to start heckling him …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … when the rules of procedure do not allow us to do so? You could emancipate us because we have got mouths. These mouths are not borrowed. We can do what the Patriotic Front (PF) does when people are making sense on the Floor of this House. 

I seek a ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: As you debate, take that point of order into account.

You may continue, hon. Member for Chipili.

Mr Mwila: That was a point of jealous, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, out of the 650 health posts earmarked for construction, we are going to benefit about six in Chipili. Their construction will start in December. 

Mr Chairperson, we have also benefited from the creation of new districts because people have been employed and we are going to have our own police station, a district hospital and new infrastructure. 

Mr Chairperson, that is the reason I am saying that Luapula Province is a no-go area …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … for our colleagues. If you recall, one of the presidents just passed through Mansa and went somewhere I do know.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: So, with those few words, Mr Chairperson, I submit. 

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate this Vote. First of all, it is important to know that I support the provincial development that has been taken through and through …

Mr Mwaliteta: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … by many Governments that have gone past.

Laughter

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, no development would have come by any other government unless there was a financial foundation laid out by the previous Government.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Today, we are talking about regional development. I am of the opinion that we should unite the country in our debate and spread what we are talking about. If we are talking only about Luapula …

Mr Mukanga: This is a provincial vote.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … and we leave out the rest of the country, then, we are dividing the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: I know we are debating provinces.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: It is, however, important to understand that you cannot refer to the development in one province and call it a no-go area.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear! 

How?

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: How can it be a no-go area? I am a Zambian …

Mr Nkombo: That is treason.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … and I can go anywhere.

Mr Mwaliteta: Politically.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, please, let us not do that …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, whether politically …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: No! Order, please. I think we are getting out of control. 

Mr Nkombo: PF.

The Chairperson: The fact that I tolerate should not be mistaken for weakness. You will be disappointed. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: May the hon. Member on the Floor, continue.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I believe that as Members of Parliament, we should unite the country …

Mr Pande: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … through whatever we discuss and in whatever form we discuss it. We must unite the country. 

Mr Chairperson, I have stood for forty-seven years in Public Service to unite my country.

Mr Pande: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: The debate that I have heard about the Luapula Province being a no-go area is dangerous.

Mr Pande: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: That is not a good debate at all. Such debate should be curtailed. 

Mr Chairperson, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) took over an economy that was totally broken. In order for the country to be developed, the MMD had to painstakingly sit down to allow the economy to be re-built. In 2011, when this Government on your right took over, it took over an economy that was vibrant.

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: The Patriotic Front (PF) was able to borrow money to work on infrastructure development because it found a stable economy in place. 

Mr Pande: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Today, the PF Government cannot turn around and belittle the Government that laid a foundation which it was able to use to borrow money. 

Mr Nkombo: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: It is the worst thing it can do because, now, we are in debt, the same amount of debt that the MMD Government had to clear at the time it took over office. When I was Minister of Foreign Affairs, I spent the whole time travelling all over the world to bring down the debt that was US$7.8 billion. We are now talking about close to US$ 5 billion. 

Mr Nkombo: Connect it to the provincial debate.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Yes, my debate on the province is that it is important that the development that will come about as a result of the monies that have been borrowed is spread throughout the country. This is because every Zambian is going to pay for the amount of money that has been borrowed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: As the hon. Member talked about the six health posts to be constructed per district in Luapula Province, the so many towers to be erected and so much infrastructure development, for me, what is happening in Luapula sounds like Europe …

Mr Nkombo: Yes!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … because nothing of that sort is happening in my constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: There is nothing, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order!

You see, your problem is that you want to engage him. He is talking about what he says is not available in Central Province. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Yes!

The Chairperson: Those of you who spoke on your provinces told us what you thought you have. Therefore, what is the problem?

Continue, hon. Member.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, whilst Luapula Province sounds like a heaven on earth, it is not so in my constituency, in particular, and my province in general despite the fact that the MMD Government worked very hard to reduce debt and bring about the economic vibrancy that the PF is talking about. 
    
Mr Chairperson, for instance, we do not have a district hospital nor the health posts that are been talked about. We do not have the communication towers that have been talked about. Everything that is in the province was done by the MMD. Not even one thing has been put up by the PF. So, how can we equate to others and say that we are silent? No, we are not silent. We are hearing you speak, but we want to unite the nation so that we can move as a united force.

Mr Chairperson, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate on this Vote. Listening to what colleagues from the other parts of the country have been saying, I find their comments extremely demeaning to the hon. Minister of Finance. In his speech, the hon. Minister of Finance wanted to see a Zambia that is all-inclusive; a Zambia that is founded on equity; a Zambia that is founded on social justice and a Zambia in which development is equitably distributed to improve the quality of life of all our people in all parts of the country. However, what we are hearing from other colleagues who are debating is divisive and highly demeaning of the higher principles that the hon. Minister of Finance has been expounding in this House. 

Clearly, the debate by Rev. Lt-Gen. Hon. Shikapwasha is my debate. We would like to see a Zambia that is united. We would like to see a Zambia that leaves up to its motto of “One Zambia, One Nation.” We should not be so myopic that we focus on the narrow perspectives of our provinces and glorify a discriminatory development process.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: That is unacceptable.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, the glory that we have been hearing about in other parts of the country is not the case in the Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, as far as infrastructure in the province is concerned, we are still confronted with degenerated roads. The Mulobezi/Mwandi, Mulobezi/Sesheke, Mulobezi/Sesheke/Luampa, Sinjembela/Sikongo, Katunda/Lukulu, Nalikwanda and Kalabo/Sikongo roads are all nightmares. People have to take about six hours to travel on a 50-km road. Hon. Yaluma, the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, can testify to this. It took him a long time to move from Kalabo to Sinjembela because of the state of the road. Clearly, as far as the Western Province is concerned, there has not been any newly-initiated road since the Patriotic Front (PF) took over Government. There has been nothing at all.

Mr Chairperson, the PF found the Mongu/Kalabo Road under construction. It was launched by the former President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, the PF found the contractor on sight. The Senanga/Sesheke Road was complete when the PF Government came into power and the bridge is an ongoing project. So, in terms of road infrastructure, the PF has done completely nothing.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Unlike what is happening in Luapula where there has been so much road infrastructure development, there is nothing in the Western Province.

Mr Livune: So, Luapula is Zambia?

Prof. Lungwangwa: The people of the Western Province are hearing about what a discriminatory and divisive Government this is. This goes against the aspirations of the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Chairperson, when it comes to other areas, for example, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme, we expect a province which is the poorest in the country to actually get a higher share of the scheme, but it is only operative in Nalolo Constituency, …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Only.

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and yet the Social Cash Transfer Scheme was mooted in the early part of this century around 2003, as a way of cushioning the liberalisation process. It is not a PF project.

Ms Kabanshi:  On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, is Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, who was debating so well, in order not to be appreciative of the efforts that the PF Government made …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kabanshi: … in giving the Western Province nine new districts when other provinces just got one or two? 

I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: Take that point of order into account as you debate, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa.

You may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme has been politicised by our colleagues in the PF. They are the only ones benefitting, and yet this is a programme that is supposed to be addressing poverty. It is part of the poverty reduction strategy of the country. It is only found in Nalolo Constituency out of the entire province where 60 per cent of the people are poor. This is unacceptable. This level of discrimination and divisiveness must come to a stop. This country is for us all and not for just one section of the country. When we talk about the National Budget, it must be all-inclusive. It must be equitable.

Mr Chairperson, as regards agriculture in the Western Province, the Government has been irrelevant ...

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … because we have not taken time, since Independence, to understand the livelihood of our people. For example, most of our people are focusing on cultivating, say a two-acre piece of land, keeping probably a few animals here, some chicken there and tiling a bit of land somewhere. How do you define that kind of agriculture which the majority of our people are engaged in? As far as farming is concerned, we, as a nation, have not seriously addressed the livelihood of our people in terms of agricultural activities since 1964. The majority of our people do what we call home gardening. However, home gardening has not featured anywhere in our agriculture policies.

This is what has contributed to the perpetuation of poverty in our country and in the Western Province in particular. This must be addressed seriously. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock must pay attention to how best we can modernise home gardening in order to make a difference in the lives of the majority of our people in the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, when it comes to education, we have a number of schools in the Western Province which the PF Government found in 2011, and which have not been completed up to now. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: But they have completed those in Luapula.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I will give you an example. Our colleagues have been talking about the construction of schools started by the PF over the last three years which have now been completed. Well, I was once hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, as everybody knows, and I put up a secondary school in Lupososhi and Kaputa. I also put up a secondary school called Maleka Tembo in Muyombe, Mpulungu Secondary School in Mpulungu and many other secondary schools. These are the schools which our colleagues in the PF are bragging about. That was equitable development. That was fairness …

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

That is the last point of order on this.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Member who is debating.

Mr Chairperson, is he in order to mention that he built a secondary school in the Northern Province and in other provinces without mentioning that he built about seven schools in his constituency, without looking at other constituencies, when he was the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, is he in order to continue debating in that manner?

Mr Chairperson, I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: Order!

As you debate, take that point of order into account.

You may continue, hon. Member for Nalikwanda.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, this is clearly an expression of our proficiency of ignorance. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga knows very well that the schools he is talking about are part of the ninety grass-thatched schools countrywide which were reconstructed and the documents are there to prove it. The documents were brought to this House and anybody, who was an hon. Member of Parliament during that time, had a document about these schools. That was transparency and openness, and it was done in the interest of the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, these people in the PF are destroying this country …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and we all have a stake in this country. Clearly, this level of development is unacceptable and we reject discrimination. We reject this divisiveness. The PF Government is not being fair to the children in other parts of this country. Why is it so discriminatory? Why is it being so discriminatory? You can find the documents about how those schools were built. Let us not be discriminatory, Hon. Mukanga. 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga has been talking about the Nalikwanda Road for the past three years. However, he has not done anything ...

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Let us keep quiet.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, he has not done anything on that road for the past three years. He is punishing the poor peasants. Be honest, Hon. Mukanga. You are an hon. Minister and Leader of the Government …

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, let us debate the issues. Let us not debate each other.

You may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, any Government worth its integrity should be able to look at the nation in its entirety because the suffering of the peasants or the children in all parts of our country should be painful to any leader of integrity. It should be painful to any leader who is worth being called a leader. Do not discriminate. 

Mr Chairperson, finally, we do not want to see a situation where our traditional set up in the Western Province is disturbed or disrespected. Respect our traditional set up. When, for example, matters have been discussed at the highest authority in that part of the country, respect the decisions of the traditional set up. Do not bring tribal conflict in the Western Province. We have been a united people. There is no such thing as a Mbunda, Nkoya or whatever. That is not the way we have lived. We have about thirty-three linguistic groups there, but we are all united. Do not divide the people of the Western Province. We do not like that. 

Prof. Lungwangwa (pointing at Professor Luo): You are the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Respect the traditions.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to see a lot of attention being given to …

Prof. Luo indicated.

The Chairperson: Order!

I said that there will be no more points of order, but that should not mean that you should be talking about individuals, Prof. Lungwangwa.

You may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, the Western Province shares a border with Angola, and I would like to see the western transport corridor opened. Where is the money which was sourced to build the Kalabo/Sikongo Road? Where has it gone? Can we be told where the money has gone? This is because we would like to see the western transport corridor opened, and that is one way in which we can bring development to that part of the country. The hon. Minister of Finance should explain to the people of the Western Province where the money for the Kalabo/Sikongo Road has gone. 

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa) Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for the opportunity to debate this Vote. Let me add the voice of the people of the North-Western Province and Kasempa, in particular, to this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to start by saying that, every year, since the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power, we have been approving budgets, but the effects of these approvals have not trickled down to the villagers in the North-Western Province. Since the coming of the PF, all the activities in the North-Western Province have been put in reverse gear. Nothing is progressing. 

Mr Chairperson, the provincial administration, as the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has indicted, is responsible for planning, co-ordinating and implementing projects. However, I am very sad to say that in the North-Western Province, this is not happening. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Because Luapula is Zambia.

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, last year, I had a gentleman’s agreement with the provincial administration to invite hon. Members of Parliament from the province after the approval of the Budget. This was in order to see how this Budget would be implemented. However, that invitation never came through from the provincial administration.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, the Central Government must be fed with the truth on what is happening on the ground. 

Allocations have been approved for road construction. For example, in 2014, the construction of Klongwa Road-D181 was approved, but nothing has happened. In 2015, some roads not only in Kasempa, but also other districts as well have been budgeted for in the Yellow Book. I hope and pray that it will not be business as usual. I hope that the roads are not simply appearing in the Yellow Book, but that they will be worked on.  

Mr Chairperson, the North-Western Province has not benefited from the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. There are roads that appear in the statistics that we have been promised will be worked on, but nothing is happening. Not a single district in the North-Western Province has benefited from the Pave Zambia 2,000 km Road Project. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Pande: Meanwhile, this Government is boasting about this project. Not even half a kilometre has been worked on in any of the districts in the North-Western Province. Why, then, are we approving this Budget? We want these roads worked on, Sir. We will not continue to approve for the sake of approving. The people of the North-Western Province now believe that we approve these monies for the sake of approving and that the projects appear in the Yellow Book just for the sake of appearing because there is no implementation. I hope that things will turn round in 2015. 

Mr Chairperson, the people of the North-Western Province were told during campaigns for the Mufumbwe By-election that if they voted for a Patriotic Front (PF) candidate in the area, development would go to the area. Nothing is happening in Mufumbwe. There is an incomplete district hospital and secondary school and the bridge, which was supposed to be built, has not been constructed to date. All these projects have not been embarked upon despite a PF Member of Parliament being voted for. 

Mr Chairperson, when there were elections in Zambezi West, the people were promised a bridge across the Zambezi River from the Boma to Mize. There is, however, nothing in the Yellow Book towards this cause. 

Mr Mwale: They do not talk about it. 

Mr Pande: It is not even talked about. Why should we be approving this? This is why I said earlier that the North-Western, since the coming of the PF, is in reverse gear. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hmmm!

Mr Pande: We want to move forward. 

Mr Mwale: The whole country except Luapula. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, Zambia, …

Mr Mwale: Only Luapula is Zambia. 

Mr Pande: … as a country, must move together. When hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province lament, it is based on facts. We speak on behalf of the people. We do not make up whatever we say here. We are telling the Government what we are being told is on the ground. The people are crying for development. At the moment, we are looking at the National Budget and the people are asking us what is going on. As far as they are concerned, we approve these budgets only for other areas to boast of the massive infrastructure development taking place in their areas.  

Mr Mtolo: Luapula. 

Mr Pande: The only money being sent to our areas is for personal emoluments. There is completely nothing for projects. Only the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has seen projects being executed in the North-Western Province. 

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, one of the weaknesses which were highlighted by one of the reports presented today is the lack of supervision of projects, including those to be undertaken under the CDF by the provincial administration. I have seen that there is a provision for supervision of projects, but I do not know what this money will be used for because projects, even under the CDF, are never supervised. The provincial administration is only seen in districts when there is a traditional ceremony taking place. This is the only time they will visit. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: I challenge the provincial administration to use some of the roads that we want worked on such as Mumbwa/Kasempa, Chitokoloki and Mwembeshi roads. We have asked you to rehabilitate these roads, but you have not. You are always flying or using the Chingola/Solwezi Road. How will you know that these areas need to be worked on? Sir, these people are letting down the Central Government, which the people are holding responsible for the non-development of the North-Western Province. 

Mr Chairperson, the Janyauki/Kalutwiti/Shkulukila Road has been put in the Yellow Book, with a provision of K811,000. I hope it will not be like the other roads that I mentioned where figures were allocated, but nothing has happened. These are things which you can check. In Kasempa, nobody inspects projects apart from me, and I can challenge the District Commissioner (DC) or anyone else about this. If I do not inspect projects, you cannot know what is going on.  

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: All the money has gone to Luapula. 

Mr Pande: I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Health because we give credit where it is due. I saw the hon. Minister of Health about the clinic in Nyoka and he responded. After inspection, I found that there is a desire to have the clinic rehabilitated. However, it has been quiet for some time now. I had to follow-up the matter with the provincial medical officer. It seems that the Government, the Ministry of Health and staff are not concerned. We expect the provincial administration to be the agents of development. 

The DCs in the North-Western Province have failed to make it as hon. Members of Parliament in 2011 are busy campaigning in their respective areas. On a Friday, for example, the DC in my constituency would be busy organising a concert where he can play a guitar or dance. 

Laughter 

Mr Pande: What development can come to such an area? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, they know this very well. 

I have brought it to the attention of the Government that this DC is letting them down, but it seems that this is what they want. They do not want development to take place in Kasempa, in the North-Western Province, and this is evidenced by the calibre of the DCs that they take there.  

As people who want development in the province, we have offered to sit down with the DCs to help them, but they do not want. If, for instance, they get wind of the fact that I spoke to the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS), I am accused of holding meetings with Opposition parties. Sir, for us, it is all about development. We do not talk politics when we are discussing development. So, the PF has been let down by its people. The outcome of 20th January, 2015, will be as a result of its DCs and this is its own making because it has let us down. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Pande: These are facts which can be checked on the ground. I challenge whoever is questioning to come with me on a tour of the North-Western Province. There is no single project going on apart from those that are being undertaken using the CDF. 

Mr Chairperson, as we approve this, I wish to call upon the provincial administration to change its attitude. We, the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province, are there to help develop the province. We do not only want to engage in politics, but develop the province as well. We politick when it is time for politicking. Besides this, however, we also want development. We would like to see change. The province has been in reverse gear and we are no longer interested in being in that position anymore. We want to move forward ... 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande:  … and a decision will be made on 20th January, 2015. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Hammer!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, as I debate the Vote for the Southern Province, I would like to emphasise that my debate will hinge mostly on the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) Department. 

Sir, this morning, the people of Monze Central Constituency asked me cardinal questions pertaining to the information being disseminated by the Government. This morning, members of the Catholic Church asked me why there has been a lack of information pertaining to the deportation of one catholic priest in Lundazi, Father Banyangandora.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Bamutanda alimwi?

Mr Mwiimbu: They asked me who was responsible …

Mr Livune: Edgar Lungu!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … for that deportation.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order!

In this particular case, we are talking about the developments in the Southern Province. I am failing to see the connection between the Catholic …

Mr Mwaliteta: He is a catholic.

The Chairperson: … priest in Lundazi with what is obtaining in the Southern Province.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to make a connection.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, on page 185, Programme 1858 – Office of the President Southern Province, the Vote called Zambia New and Information Services Department is the one I am debating. I am marrying this to the information that was being disseminated …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and trying to show and inform the people that they were denied information by this particular department by it not informing them who was responsible for the deportation of Father Banyangandora.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Waseka weh.

Mr Mwiimbu: Further, I am saying that the person who is responsible is aspiring for presidency. That is what I wanted to say. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Sing’ombe: There are Catholics in the Southern Province.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: The gallant people of Kasama …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mwiimbu: … have been telling me that they were denied information …

Mr Mwila interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: … on who was responsible for the sending of more than 500 policemen to ensure that the rights of the Chitimukulu were violated.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: We have discovered that the one who was responsible …

Mr Livune: Edgar Lungu!

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Mwiimbu: … and who did not inform the nation was the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, at the time, who is aspiring …

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

I do not like reversing the decisions that I make. I had said that I would not allow anymore more points of order. Maybe, I should have been specific by adding that there would be no points of order from now until business is suspended. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I just wanted to relate the issues, as they obtained at that particular time, and the misinformation that was being released to members of the public  …

Mr Mwenya: Debate on the Southern Province.

The Chairperson: Order!

Can you leave the House, hon. Deputy Minister for the Copperbelt. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Can the one who was making noise leave the House until after the resumption of business. You can come back after tea break.

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Kabiye. 

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwenya left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Mucheleka Shemuneni.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

The Chairperson: Order!

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Which hon. Member started that?

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Can you also leave the House immediately.

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Leave the House, Hon. Mucheleka. I am sorry, but there needs to be order in the House. We cannot behave like we are on a political platform.

Mr Nkombo interjected.

The Chairperson: He will come back after tea break.

Laughter 

Mr Mukanga: Do not come.

The Chairperson: Please, let there be order. There are certain things being said and if we continue interjecting, we might as well stop debating. That is why I advise that we listen. If you disagree with what somebody is saying, you can indicate, that is, if your province has not exhausted its time, and rebut what was has been said. However, do not use the Floor to begin making unwarranted commentaries while seated.

Continue, hon. Member for Monze Central.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the people of Kasama and the Bemba Kingdom have been wondering who had degazzeted the current Paramount Chief Sosala when he was Chief Mwamba and that information was not given. It has transpired that it is the in Patriotic Front (PF) Government that has degazzeted him and that information was not being disseminated to members of the public.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwaliteta: That is not the Southern Province.

Mr Mwiimbu: However, today, members of the public know that it is the PF Government 

Mr Mutelo: Information.

Mr Mwiimbu: Information, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, members of the public have been asking us why they are not being given correct information pertaining to the projects in the Western Province and who started those projects.
 
Mr Sikazwe: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: They are not being given the correct information. However, the correct information that ZANIS should have been giving to the people of Zambia is that all the road projects that are currently in place in the Western Province were initiated by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: ZANIS has been failing. 

Mr Chairperson, the people of the Southern Province have been wondering why they are not being given information pertaining to the status of our hon. Minister for Southern Province. Why is it that he has suddenly become quiet and looks very timid and miserable? 

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Hon. Mwiimbu, I know you are trying as much as you possibly can to meet my requirements, but I think that you are going beyond what I can manage to contain. Can you veer off that path and come to the main issue.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, still on information, we have noticed with concern that the Government is not working as one. There is no longer any collective responsibility on the part of the Government. We have heard, through the media, that one hon. Minister said that a certain Chief Executive Officer of an organisation is only capable of being a president of a chicken run. On the other hand, the officer, who is a chairperson of a parastatal organisation, retorted saying that the hon. Minister is not fit to hold his position and unpalatable words were used.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: This information, although we are aware of it, has been denied to the people. We are aware that the Government members, without working together for the benefit of the nation, are always quarrelling, taking each other to court and citing each other with contempt. 

How do they expect to serve the people of Zambia, especially the Southern Province? I doubt whether he will be able to answer our questions because of the situation he is in. 

Mr Nkombo: He is traumatised!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, he is traumatised.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we are aware of the good projects that have taken place in other provinces, which are not obtaining in provinces such as the Southern Province. 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the hon. Members from the Southern Province have been lamenting, on the Floor of this House, the road carnage that is obtaining between Turn Pike in Kafue and Mazabuka. Almost every day, we lose lives on that international road that is used by transporters, tourists and other travellers in this country. There has not been any attempt, whatsoever, to rehabilitate that particular road. We thank the PF for neglecting us. 

Mr Nkombo: We will teach them a lesson!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, come 20th January, 2015, the people of the Southern Province will respond to these issues.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Decisively, they will respond. 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we have been told that other areas are no-go areas.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I am not going to say that the Southern Province is a no-go area because we believe that any Zambian is free to go to the Southern Province and campaign for a party of their choice. We are also aware that certain individuals who were insulting their Presidential candidate three days ago have endorsed and are now praising him.

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Now, they are pretending that they are working together when, in fact, there is something they are hiding or fearing.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Continue, please.

Mr Shakafuswa: Abota makani!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, on the Floor of this House, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock informed this House that a contract was signed for the rehabilitation of silos in Monze and that a contractor was on site. There has not been any contractor on site and no money has been allocated towards the rehabilitation of the silos. Even the one who attempted to be President of the PF assured us that something was going to be done. Maybe, that is why he withdrew because some of the delegates came from Monze and he knew that he was going to lose. 

Sir, we have been assured, as the people of the Southern Province, an area that is drought prone, that the PF Government shall ensure that dams are constructed to enable our farmers to engage in irrigation. For the last thirty-five months, nothing has been done. We are now being told that the MMD did not do anything in its twenty years of being in Government and that it will not be allowed to come back in the Government. The person who was making that statement forgot that we still have former MMD Members serving in the PF Government. The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, Prof. Nkandu Luo, and the current Minister of Finance, Hon. Chikwanda, served in the MMD Government. So, it is not correct …

The Chairperson: Order! 

Please, let us avoid debating individuals. You can talk about other things, but once you begin to engage individuals, it becomes a bit difficult for us to control the House.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I was just trying to be factual ….

The Chairperson: No, do not try to question my ruling.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, as you know, I am abiding by your rulings. I just want to say that I can still see those who served under the MMD Government serving under the PF Government. 

Mr Kambwili: Shakafuswa!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Are they now …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, if the argument that is being raised by our colleagues on your right side is that the MMD Government failed, then, it means that the former MMD Members who are serving under the PF now are failures. If they are failures, they should not continue failing us. 

Mr Shakafuswa: Including the former President!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is what they are telling us. They must be careful when they make innuendos and cast aspersions against others when there are those who were serving under the MMD Government amongst themselves.

Mr Shakafuswa: Including their President!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I am aware that some of them served under the MMD Government diligently. Let us be principled. I am also aware that some people who served under the MMD during that time which is being condemned are presiding over you in this House. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: When you condemn, you should realise that you are also condemning those who are your leaders in this House.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

The Chairperson: No, Hon. Mwiimbu, you are out of order. Can you withdraw that statement.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I want to withdraw that you were not under the MMD Government. 

The Chairperson: No, withdraw your earlier statement.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I have withdrawn …

Laughter

The Chairperson: That is all. You have withdrawn it.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to say a few words for and on behalf of the wonderful people of Solwezi West, in particular, and the North-Western Province as a whole. I have a few points which may seem to be repetitive, but are very critical to the North-Western Province.

Sir, the first one is on the Solwezi/Chingola Road. I want to start by saying that this is an economically viable road which this Government has, for a long time, neglected. People have died on that road. 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: But the money is going to Luapula!

Mr Mwanza: We know, for certain, that these development prospects come from the North- Western Province. Whether you like it or not, and money is coming from Kansanshi, Kalumbila, Lumwana Mines and other mines on the Copperbelt Province. Alas, the Government has decided to ignore the development of this critical road. Those of you that will campaign in the North-Western Province …

Mr Nkombo: Will have a tough time.

Mr Mwanza: … will have a tough time …

Ms Sayifwanda: Ba Lungu.

Mr Mwanza: … because the people of that province will ask you about the Solwezi/Chingola Road.

Mr Nkombo: Carry enough water.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the Provincial Minister told us that there are three contractors that are currently working on the Solwezi/Chingola Road to speed up the works on that road, but when I went to Solwezi, I did not see those three contractors.

Mr Nkombo: They went to Luapula.

Ms Sayifwanda: Not even one.

Mr Mwanza: I had to come back to Lusaka by air …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … as I could not use my car because the road is terrible.

Ms Sayifwanda: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: The people in the Government have the guts to ignore an economically viable road, and this is not fair. Shame on them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Do they ferry beer on that road?

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, three contractors are not working on the road, …

Ms Sayifwanda: That was a lie.

Mr Mwanza: … but since it has been raining since September in that province, there is no dust unlike in October when there was so much dust that hindered one from driving properly. The Provincial Minister uses the same road, but no works have been done on it.

Hon. Opposition Members: He flies.

Mr Mwanza: I do not know if he flies, but if he does that, then, that is wrong.

Mr Nkombo: Ino nguni Minister?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mubukwanu.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mubukwanu.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is boasting about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

Mr Livune: It is only in Cawama.

Mr Mwanza: Let me borrow the words of the Member of Parliament for Bweengwa, Hon. Hamududu, that we must connect the road network to the neighbouring countries. The neighbouring countries of the North-Western Province are Angola, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) …

Mr Nkombo: Namibia.

Mr Mwanza: … and Namibia and 60 km away from Solwezi, there is Kipushi Border where different commodities are sold either in kwacha or United States dollars.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: However, for one to travel to Kipushi Border, he/she will take six hours to get there. In addition, a school which was being built there has not been opened …

Mr Livune: Aah!

Mr Mwanza: … because of the bad state of Kipushi Road. So, when you boast about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, you are just pleasing people in one region and that is wrong.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the PF Government promised to construct township roads in Solwezi and the rest of the province, but nothing has been done.

Mr Nkombo: Aku Mazabuka.

Mr Livune: Even in Kazungula.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, I can assure you that it is a nightmare to drive on the roads in Kasempa, Mufumbwe, Mwinilunga and Yabeji.

Mr Nkombo: Even in Mazabuka.

Mr Ng’onga: You were in power for ten years.
 
Mr Mwanza: Do not worry about ten years, naiwe.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: You are in charge.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the township roads in the North-Western Province are in a bad state and it is deliberate because the PF Government was not voted for in that province. As I stand here, I cannot vote for the PF Government.

Mr Nkombo: Even me.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: It is your vote.

Mr Mwanza: Although it is my vote, you must remember that you have a responsibility, as the party in power, to ensure that you distribute equitable resources to all the districts in the North- Western Province and in Zambia as a whole. It is for this reason that the people in the North- Western Province will not be kind to you when you go there.

Mr Livune: Correct.

Mr Mwanza: They will be very rough as they talk to you because they know, for certain, that there is no development that has been taken to the province for the past three years that the PF Government has been in power.

Dr Kaingu: No tourism.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mumvela?

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the PF Government promised to construct bus stops in most of the areas in the Northern-Province. However, there are no bus stops in Mufumbwe, Kasempa and Yabeji and most places in the province do not have decent bus stops. The Provincial Minister is listening and he knows that what I am saying is true. Therefore, of what benefit is it for the people of the North-Western Province to belong to the PF?

Mr Livune: Zero!

Mr Mwanza: First of all, you need to apologise to the people of the North-Western Province for insulting them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Can you address the Chair.

Mr Mwanza: Sorry, Mr Chairperson, I got carried away.

The Chairperson: Do not get carried away.

Mr Mwanza: You must apologise …

The Chairperson: You must say that “they must apologise.”

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the PF Government must apologise to the people of the North- Western Province for neglecting them and not developing Zambezi, Ikeleng’i, Mwinilunga and all the other districts.

Mr Simbao: Zambezi Bridge.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the Zambezi Bridge. Before the PF Government …

Ms Sayifwanda interjected.

Mr Mwanza: … came into power, it promised to construct a bridge from Zambezi Boma to Mize. Let me find out from the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East if there is …

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order, Hon. Mwanza!

Once you do that, it will seem like you are seeking an answer from her. That is why I said that you must address the Chair.

Mr Mwanza: Sorry, Mr Chairperson. The hon. Minister of Finance was the District Governor of Zambezi …

Hon. Opposition Members: Oho. Sure.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwanza: … and he knows that the people in that area were having difficulties crossing from the Boma to Mize and some people even die when the Zambezi River gets flooded.

Mr Muntanga: And he has never solved that problem.

Ms Sayifwanda: Ask him.

Mr Livune: Is it true, Sir?

Mr Mwanza: The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in the Government for twenty years and the PF has been in the Government for three years, but there is still no bridge in the province. No bridge, no vote.

Laughter
 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: No bridge, no vote.

Mr Mwanza: This is because that was a promise.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, I also want to say that the people of the North-Western Province are very disappointed …

Mr Nkombo: They are fed up of PF.

Mr Mwanza: … and as I stated, the PF Government must apologise to them. If it does not apologise, the people of the North-Western Province will not vote for it.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: What I am saying is that the North-Western Province …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the
 Chair]

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I had just started contributing to the Vote of the North-Western Province. As I continue to add the voice of the wonderful people of Solwezi West Constituency to this debate, I want to state that I have only two points to make.

The first one being the issue of contractors that are working on the roads in the North-Western Province and posing a danger to the people. Instead of employing qualified contractors who are resident in Solwezi, Zambezi or Mwinilungu, we are seeing contractors coming with letters from some of the people seated on your right, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Cadres!

Mr Mwanza: They are allowing cadres to bid for works in the North-Western Province. This must stop immediately because we also have qualified people there who can work on the roads.

Ms Sayifwanda: Nyakuleng’a Road is even abandoned.

Mr Mwanza: As a result of this, a road called Nyakuleng’a Road in Lyambedzhi has been deserted because the contractor came with a note from some of the people seated in here to work in the North-Western Province. This must stop. I am deliberately saying so, Mr Chairperson, so that they understand.

Secondly, I would like to talk about the issue of health infrastructure. I hear that 650 health posts are supposed to be constructed around the country. I have seven health posts in my constituency Solwezi West. However, the whole of the North-Western Province has no single hospital built there. So, this idea of saying that the PF Government is working hard and has built hospitals is a lie.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Bulela!

Mr Mwanza: These words must not be repeated in here because my constituency is an example of those that have not benefited from this Government. My constituency is along the main tarred road from Zambezi, Mwinilungu, Solwezi via Chingola and I know what is going on there. So, do not give us cheap propaganda or cheap politics.

Sir, in my area, there is a place called Chovwe. This area has never been visited by the provincial administration. Through the Constituency Development (CDF), I have constructed a good school at Ifumba, but still the provincial administration has never been there. This is a place where you have to go through Chililabombwe in order to access the North-Western Province, but it has never been there. This is bad and clumsy.

Therefore, I would like to appeal to the provincial administration to ensure that it visits such places because that is where the voters are, especially if you want them to vote for you. Otherwise, as long as you remain PF and have not done anything for the North-Western Province, they will not vote for you.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the Vote for the Central Province on behalf of the people in that province.

Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I wish to state that when we come to this House, we should be cognisant of the fact that Zambia has evolved. We used to be a one-party State at one time, but realised that this system could not meet the aspirations of the people because of its inhibitive nature. Hence, we fought for multi-partism. The gallant freedom fighters that could not stand the Government machinery at that time ushered in multi-partism. However, today, they must be laughing at the joke called multi-partism.

Sir, multi-partism entails that when you go for elections, people have choices. Some people will say they want to work with you, while others will say they will not work with you. However, they do not cease to be Zambians. They continue being Zambians. Therefore,  somebody whose thinking is sharp enough and whose intellectual capacity is enhanced, would know that where there is resistance, then, they need to put in more work and convince the people. Multi-partism is competition and competition is persuasion. Where you find your friend is not with you, persuade him.

Sir, I have heard hon. Members of Parliament on your right stand in this House and boast about the developmental programmes that are going on in their areas.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Shakafuswa: I agree that this is unprecedented. They have all the roads, hospitals, schools and universities, but in Central Province, our people are telling us that they hear on Parliament Radio how our friends are boasting about development in their areas, and yet we also appropriate the Budget. How come you are not bringing anything to our areas?

Sir, I think that those who boasted on the Floor of this House have done themselves a disservice, especially that we are going for a by-election where a very good friend of mine is standing as president. The people in Central Province are saying “kwenka uko nkobatokwamba nkweshi bakabwesele vote.”

The Deputy Chairperson: What do you mean?

Mr Shakafuswa: Meaning that, in those areas where they are boasting that they have seen development, that is where they will get a vote.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes! Cawama!

Mr Shakafuswa: Some of them are saying yes, but they are too lazy to populate. Your population levels are very low as compared to our population. We are also capable of doing kwafwa libungebunge.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: What do you mean?

Mr Shakafuswa: We are capable of tracing bones which are similar to our bones.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We are capable of doing that, but we are not that cheap so we will not go that route.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We will show them that our areas are no-go areas. The Government wants to bring about development as if nga mali yaba nyina wanu.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: What do you mean?

Mr Shakafuswa: They are boasting of development as if it is their mothers who gave them the money to develop their areas. That money belongs to the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes! Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Under multi-partism, they cannot treat us like we are lesser citizens. We all belong to this country. 

Mr Chairperson, I come from Chibombo District in Central Province and I want to remind the Government that there has never been a single district hospital built in Chibombo District.

Mr Livune: Kamubambila, badala!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Well, if their intellectual capacity is enhanced, they should stand up and tell me which one is a district hospital. Find out from the hon. Minister of Health. We have no district hospital in Chibombo. The church has a leprosium. It is not a district hospital.

Mr Mwaliteta: But you were there in the MMD!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, what I am saying is that there are times when I think about the late President, Dr Levy Mwanawasa, SC., and hate him because when we told him to develop the area where he came from, he told us that the money did not belong to his tribesmen and kinsfolk. Tell me if he came and splashed the areas he came from. He took it that the cake belonged to the people of Zambia and it had to be shared equally. The Late President, Dr  Mwanawasa, SC., had no votes in Luapula, and yet he took the Mwanawasa Bridge there. However, you, in the Patriotic Front (PF), take offence when people do not vote for you. That is retarded thinking. That is the thinking of people who do not have a future in the dispensation of this democracy and multi-party democracy. People who think that way should never even think that they have a future or part in this dispensation.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us guide each other. If you want to raise a point of order, ask for it with clean hands. If you were making running commentaries, do not expect me to give you a point of order because I have not lost sight of what you were doing when somebody was debating. In short, let us learn to listen to one another. That is the bottom line. There are no two ways about it. Some of you are debating while seated and I am seeing you. Then you immediately spring up and want to raise a point of order. Which presiding officer will give you a point of order when he knows you have sufficiently debated while seated? 

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: On who?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, you talk about education in Central Province, …

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimba H. Malama: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. I believe that when we stand to debate, we should be factual. Is the hon. Member, who is debating, in order to state that during the time of late President Mwanawasa, SC., the Levy Mwanawasa Bridge  was built in Luapula without balancing and stating that the PF Government has done a lot in the three years that it has been in power? There is a bridge named after Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. So, is he in order not to state what the PF has done in the three years that it has been in power compared to what the MMD did in twenty years?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that hon. Ministers will be given a chance to respond to that point at an appropriate time. This is the nature of our debate. We are competing for information and somewhere lies the truth. 

You may continue, hon. Member for Katuba.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, this is where I doubt the, … Anyway, the good Lord was very kind to give us different intellectual endowments.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, the late President Mwanawasa, SC., came from the Central and Copperbelt provinces. The projects being referred to are not in any of those two provinces where the late President hailed from. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: An order has been made. So, continue debating.

Mr Shakafuswa: What I am saying is that when I look back, I get very annoyed because even if he meant well, I look at him as a man who took a nationalist stand instead of lifting us up, and so, he left us in misery. Suffice to say that some people might think of taking the province for a ride, but that will not happen. I would want to see those coming to campaign in Central Province showing their intellectual knowledge through debates and not through pangas, intimidation or even coercion.

Mr Nkombo: Mpona awo.

Mr Shakafuswa: I am very happy that the good Lord Almighty has set, for the first time in this country, a level playing field. What is happening now is not the will of the people, but that of God. The one who is going to emerge leader of this nation will not do so by themselves, but because God has willed it.

Mr Nkombo: Yes. Kwambizya. Leka kunwa menda. Kwamba cilamana ciindi.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, whoever will come into power, … if it will be my very good friend Edgar, Hakainde, …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: No. Let me tell you, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: …, and whoever wins this election will have God’s hand upon them. However, the only thing I will tell you is that the people of Central Province, whom you have denied development, will enjoy it. You learnt a lesson from Katuba Constituency where the people told you to leave them with their poverty when you went there with panga promises.

Mr Nkombo: Teshi kumishanu.

Mr Shakafuswa: They told you to leave them with their poverty and that you should take whatever you had to wherever you wanted. In our language, it is like waleta sokwe wamubika mumunda wamanchebele. Pakwamba webo walima ono lakwe sokwe kabwesa manchebele katolela bana bakwe batakwe kulima. 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning what?

Mr Nkombo: Ko pandulula.

Mr Shakafuswa: It means that you bring a monkey in your maize field and after ploughing, planting and weeding, the monkey just comes to eat your maize and even takes away some of it when you and your children are suffering. So, do not think that we are taking it lightly. Even if you deny us schools, you should know that some of us have gone through universities and obtained degrees through poverty. We are, therefore, a proud tribe and people.

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, thank you for affording me an opportunity to raise this point of order. We all know that Hon. Jonas Shakafuswa, Member of Parliament for Katuba is a very senior Member of Parliament who should know the dos and don’ts of this House. Is he in order to continue debating on tribal lines, and yet he knows that tribalism is a cancer, it kills and has ramifications?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member of Parliament debating is debating on behalf of his constituency, which is located in Central Province. So far, the debate is concentrating on what his people are receiving as part of the national cake. Perhaps, the manner of debate may be different in that it may be intimidating, but that is how he has chosen to debate.

 You may continue, hon. Member.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I am not going to dwell on tribalism. I am married to the grandchild of the Pilulas. The sister to Ernest Pilula is the grandmother to my wife. She is not Lenje, but Aushi and she is my wife. So, I cannot dwell on tribalism. If you are cheap and dwell on tribalism and say that your areas are no-go areas for a Tonga, then, that is you and not us. For your own information, as Jonas Shakafuswa, I am not …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, there is a microphone there. Bear that in mind as you debate and moderate your voice.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: … looking for a Tonga President, and I can never do that. I am looking for an economic manager, someone who is going to run the affairs of this country in a prudent and effective manner that will promote growth and prosperity for this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, you who are dwelling on tribe, in this age and era, should go into the archives because that is where you belong. That is why, today, the PF is just a group of one tribe, which is going in one corner against the rest of the country. So, who is practicing tribalism? We see you when you group, but you want to talk about us being tribal. We do not practice tribalism. You are the ones who are practicing tribalism. Twamukakila, wo!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning what?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, it means we have refused.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to support the budget for Central Province and add the voice of the people of the new Luano District to this debate. First and foremost, I would like to differ with some of the speakers that have indicated that Central Province …

Mr Nkombo: Debaters not speakers.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chisopa: I disagree with some debaters who said that Central Province has not received any development lately. To the contrary, Central Province has greatly benefited from the development by this Government. For instance, township roads in Kabwe are being constructed. The Kabwe/Kapiri Mposhi Road has also been widened in order to reduce accidents. For over thirty years, Kapiri Mposhi did not have traffic lights, but they have now been installed. 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us moderate our consultations.

Mr Chisopa: Under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) reign, we had sub-standard weigh bridges on our roads. However, an ultra-modern weigh bridge has now been installed in Kapiri Mposhi. 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Monde: When something nice has been done, you want to say it was the MMD responsible for it, but when it is something bad, it was not done under the MMD.

Mr Chisopa: A new scanner has also been purchased by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). In Mkushi, street lights have been put up and a contractor is also working on the township roads. Mkushi is in Central Province and not in Luapula Province. So, we are also beneficiaries of Government programmes.

Interruptions 

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, street lights have also been installed in Serenje and the contractor to work on the roads is on site.  

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, there are two schools that have been upgraded in Mumbwa. These schools are in Kaindu and Kalilwe. Mumbwa is part of Central Province. The school projects which the PF Government is undertaking are in the Yellow Book. 

Mr Chairperson, in Kapiri Mposhi, the Lukanda and Lukomba schools have been upgraded by the PF Government. In order to reduce the deficit of power, the Itezhi-tezhi Hydro-power Station will soon be opening after being expanded. This is another project being implemented by none other than the PF Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Tell them.

Mr Ng’onga: Hammer, mwana!

Mr Chisopa: Sir, the D769 Road is being constructed from Itezhi-tezhi to the main road. These are the developments that I am talking about which are currently being implemented by the PF Government.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, there is a place in Itezhi-tezhi called Chibolya Compound that did not have water for thirty years. Today, this compound has piped water.

Mr Chairperson, three quarters of the chiefdoms in Central Province have mobile phone network coverage. Their Royal Highnesses can even call and talk to people in urban areas right from their palaces. 

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, since time immemorial, chiefs used to receive low incomes. Today, the chiefs and their messengers are receiving reasonable salaries.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: In case our colleagues in the Opposition on the left side are not aware, an investor has been found and Mulungushi Textiles will start operating soon. This will happen under His Excellency …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I am worried that you may not be able to immediately make a correction. Is the hon. Member debating on the Floor, who is very uninformed, in order to refer to us as the people on the left when he is actually among those on the left?

The Deputy Chairperson: I got his contribution clearly. He referred to the people on his left. He did not refer to the people on the left of the Chair.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, I need to make a correction. I was referring to the people on my right hand side.

Mr Nkombo: Okay, which is your left?

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, I need to indicate that in Luano District, we have also benefited from Government programmes. As I said, this is a new district and a contractor to construct an ultra-modern police station has been identified. The works will begin soon. These are some of the programmes being implemented by the PF Government and very soon, from 21st January, 2015, they will be spearheaded by His Excellency, Hon. Edgar Lungu.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: Mr Chairperson, under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, the road from Masansa to Old Mkushi to Kabwe is being constructed. By the end of 2015, this road will be upgraded to bituminous standard. This has never been done in the fifty years of our Independence.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to indicate that the PF Government is on the right track and the people of Central Province are going to support it under the leadership of Hon. Edgar Lungu, who is going to be our President into the next one month.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu (Zambezi West): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice on the debate on the Vote of the North-Western Province on behalf of the people Zambezi West, Zambezi District and the North-Western Province as a whole. 

Mr Chairperson, may I start by indicating that I am one person who is well updated and was, in fact, elected two months ago. So, even this information I am giving is actually fresh …

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Ngimbu: … unlike that of the speakers on my right hand side …

Mr Mushanga: The old people.

Ms Ngimbu: … who have given information which is so out-dated.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Since some of them have never been to their constituencies, ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Ms Ngimbu:  … even the information they are giving is not correct. It is outdated.

Mr Mushanga: Ba Mwanza!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Ngimbu: That is the more reason they should be corrected.

Mr Chisopa: Hammer!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I also mention that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, so far, has done its best ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … to bring about development in Zambezi West …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … and the North-Western Province as a whole.

I will start by mentioning the key things that the PF Government has done. I will start with communication.

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Zambezi West has appreciated the three towers given to it by the PF Government.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: It is the MMD.

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: You see, Mr Chairperson; the people of Zambezi West were so surprised at how the previous Government used to handle …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: It was Lungwangwa’s plan.

Ms Ngimbu: … the issues concerning development. The previous Government was not sharing development equally in Zambezi District. As you may recall, Zambezi West had an hon. Member who belonged to the Opposition and while the hon. Member for Zambezi East was in the Ruling Party. When it came to the sharing of these communication towers, they were lined along Zambezi East, leaving out Zambezi West.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Why did you do that?

Laughter

Mr Mushanga: Ba Mwanza.

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, that was exhibiting tribalism at its best ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … but we belong to the same Zambia. 

Ms Sayifwanda: On a point of order.

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: Why should towers be constructed along one side of the river, leaving out the other part on the other side of the river? It happened, but I thought …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Ms Ngimbu: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: You have your point of order.

Ms Sayifwanda: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. Is Hon. Ngimbu in order to bring tribal issues in this Chamber because when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in the Government, I personally lobbied for the tower at Chinyingi and it is not in Zambezi East, no? 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda: It is in Zambezi West. I lobbied for another tower for Lukulu at Watopa. In Zambezi East, I also lobbied for the erection of one tower. Is she in order to say that I lined up towers in Zambezi East on tribal lines? Was the President, then, a Lunda or a Luvale? Is she in order to bring up such things, Mr Chairperson?

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you have sufficiently debated your point of order.

May the hon. Member on the Floor, please, continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am merely pointing out the developmental activities that have taken place during this short period that the PF has been in the Government …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … as compared to …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … that which took place under the previous Government. As I am speaking, we have three towers in Kucheka, we have a tower in Chinyama Litapi and we have another one in Muyembe. We have no tower in Chinyingi.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: I think the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication can correct me on this one, if I am wrong. 

Mr Mukanga indicated consent. 

Mr Mukanga: It is the truth.

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us listen to the debate, please.

Mr Mutale: Hammer!

Mr Mushanga: Kucheke, kucheke, ba cheke!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to continue appreciating the PF Government …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … for providing us with an ambulance. The expectant women of Zambezi West experienced bad moments of losing their babies on the way to the health centres but, at the moment, we are so proud to say that the PF Government …

Mr Livune: No! It is Charles Kakoma

Ms Ngimbu: … has come to our aid.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I continue appreciating the PF Government for what it has during its short period in power, which will continue for, maybe, fifty years ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question! 

Ms Ngimbu: … for giving us a boarding school in Liovu.

Mr Livune: It is Charles Kakoma, you.

Ms Ngimbu: The PF Government is actually constructing a beautiful secondary school in Liovu.

Mr Mushanga: Haanjika!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, this project has been highly appreciated by the people of Zambezi West because, at the moment, there is no single boarding school and children have had to walk 100 km to sit for their examinations on the other side of the Zambezi River.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Ba Mwanza!

Laughter

Ms Ngimbu: Yet, during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) rule, we cried and cried until it went out of power. It is no wonder that it was booted out.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I continue appreciating …

Mr Livune: Charles Kakoma.

Ms Ngimbu: … this beautiful Government …

Mr Pande: Question!

Mr Mwanza: Tell the truth.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Tell the truth indeed.

Ms Ngimbu: … for according the people of Zambezi West an opportunity to benefit from the Social Cash Transfer Scheme through the Ministry of Community Development Social Welfare.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Thank you so much, hon. Minister, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … for assisting the vulnerable communities of Zambezi West. The people of Zambezi West have appreciated that project so much and we beg that you continue with it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, allow me to appreciate that …

Mr Livune: Charles Kakoma.

Ms Ngimbu: … Manyinga was established as a district.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Ms Ngimbu: A lot of …

Ms Kapata: Iwe, General, ikale panshi.

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: … development is taking place in Manyinga District …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order has been raised.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, for the purpose of the record, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to state that children were walking 100 km …

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … to go to school …

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: May I be protected, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let him raise his point of order.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: If she is in order, let her produce a child who walked 100 km.

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Is she in order?

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: You cannot bring lies to this House.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member on the Floor is debating issues that are in her constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

The Deputy Chairperson: If another hon. Member wants to dispute that, I hope they can catch the Chairperson’s eye at an appropriate time and rebut that point in time, once they have been allowed to speak.

Continue, hon. Member.

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, this is the reason I mentioned that some of the hon. Members on my left are giving information which is outdated.

Hon. Government Members: On your right.

Ms Ngimbu: I am sorry, on my right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am talking about an area which I know. When you move from Kayenge or Nyachikayi to the Boma, you have to cover more than 100 km. In fact, you have to spend a night on the way. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: So, I am giving you truthful information. You have never been there so, please, just be calm as I give you the information.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, I have listened very carefully to the debates of the hon. Members on my right, concerning the bridge. Much as the people of Zambezi West appreciate the debate about the bridge, the hon. Members should not hold this Government at ransom …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Member: Who is holding you at ransom?

Ms Ngimbu: Excuse me, I am on the Floor, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue.

Ms Ngimbu: They should not hold me at ransom, bearing in mind that I am only two months in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: They should not expect me to perform miracles in two months and construct a bridge when they were in the Government for twenty years, but what did they do?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: What did the previous Government do for the people of Zambezi West in twenty years …

Interruptions

Ms Ngimbu: … for me to perform miracles in two months?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I cannot follow the debate.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am enjoying the debate, but your consultations are so loud that I have heard nothing. Could you start afresh?

Laughter

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I conclude …

Hon. Members: No, continue!

Ms Ngimbu: … by saying that the PF Government is actually …

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point f order is raised.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise a point of order. Is Hon. Mwanza, Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, in order to threaten the hon. Member of Parliament, who is debating so extensively, …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kalaba: … truthfully and bringing out facts that have been hidden for far too long by some of these hon. Members of Parliament on your left, by constantly pointing a finger at her when she is trying to bring out the truth, as it is in the North-Western Province? I need your very serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I must confess that it is very difficult to make a serious ruling. I did not see him raise a finger. My view here is blocked. 

Continue, hon. Member.

Laughter

Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, may I conclude by saying that the hon. Members on my right-hand side should hold on until 20th January, 2015, when Hon. Edgar Lungu will become …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ngimbu: … the Republican President. They can rest assured that he will construct the bridge.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi (Mangango): Mr Chairperson, you can forgive me for having an inaudible voice because of the campaign that I did in Mangango for our incoming President, …

Mr Livune: HH.

Mr Lingweshi: His Excellency, Mr Edgar Lungu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Lingweshi!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, I am in support of the budget for the Western Province under which my constituency, Mangango, falls under Kaoma District. 

Mr Chairperson, to start with, I am very surprised because I have never seen a child of three months running faster than a child who is ten years old.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: I have never seen such a thing. If that happened, we could call it …

Hon. Government Backbenchers: A miracle.

Mr Lingweshi: … a miracle or some sort of magic.

Mr Mushanga: It is a taboo.

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, three years can never be compared to twenty years. It will never happen. Three years is as little as three weeks in as far as development is concerned. Twenty years constitute a longer period in which development of the nation can occur and a Zambia can become like America in this period. The surprise I am talking about is in the sense that no one can claim that they have not seen what the PF has done in three years. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Lingweshi: That is not possible.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: The roads that we are talking about are being seen by all of us in here. Our feet have walked on those roads.

Hon. Government Members: Yeah!!

Mr Lingweshi: Our eyes have seen those roads.

Hon. Government Members: Yeah!

Mr Lingweshi: Our ears have heard about those roads.

Hon. Government Members: Yeah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You know what the rules say. If you are happy with the contributions, you say “Hear, hear!” you do not say “Yeah!” as if you are at a public meeting.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, we have a proverb in Luvale which I can also explain in English. It says, “Kazhila wamuliboko umo, nambakata tuzhila babavulu mumusenge.”

This means that a bird in hand is worth thousands in the bush.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: I am saying this to emphasise the need to appreciate. I am saying this because I am from the Welensky era.

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: During the time of Welensky, under the British rule, we accepted whatever was there. We had projects then and these made us learn about development. We started from Welensky. We accepted.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. This will be the last point of order.

Mr Lingweshi: Tukuliwana.

Mr Ng’onga: A point of jealousy.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament, who was debating so well, in order to say that we accepted Sir Roy Welensky when the fact is that we demanded independence from him at that time? I was a freedom fighter. Is he in order to insult me by saying that I accepted Sir Roy Welensky?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that I did not hear the hon. Member say it the way you have put it.

You may continue, Hon. Lingweshi.

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, we accepted the situation under Sir Roy Welensky, although it was hard. When we came to Independence, we enjoyed the period under His Excellency the former President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Kenneth Kaunda. We enjoyed those years of democracy, so to say. We accepted the developments that took place under democratic rule. Today, we have accepted the situation under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. 

Mr Chairperson, let me now come to my constituency. I congratulate the PF for what it has done in my constituency. In Mangango Constituency, there was no secondary school. Our children used to leave Mangango and travel 42 km to get to Kaoma to have access to secondary school education because the day secondary school had no rooms to cater for our children. Hence, they had to walk many kilometres from Mangango to Kaoma. This time, under this present Government, we have a very beautiful and big building by the name of Mayukwa Yukwa Secondary School, which is going to cater for almost 600 pupils. It is a marvelous school and there are teachers’ houses mushrooming there. I do not think that those teachers who are going to be sent there are going to talk of accommodation problems. For that reason, I thank the PF Government for a job well done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, in future, all of us are going to benefit when the three copper mines, which are being surveyed, come to fruition. I think that the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development is aware of my contribution over that issue. In Mushwala Ward, one copper mine is being surveyed and another one is being surveyed in Mangango Ward. The last copper mine is being surveyed in Kanjimba. We are waiting for the results and they may take time to be released.  However, if the copper mines become a reality, I think that we are going to have mines as big as Lumwana Mine and the other mines in the North-Western Province. That is going to boost our economy in Zambia. That development is tremendous, and it is going to take place under the able leadership of the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, let me come to infrastructure. In my constituency, there are a lot of streams which people used to have problems crossing, especially during the rainy season. As I am speaking, these streams are now easier to cross because foot bridges have been put across them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, Namalazi Stream, which has villages on both sides, now has some culverts which were not there before, and people are crossing easily. Children going to school and expectant mothers are crossing this stream easily, and this has happened under this Government. 

Mr Chairperson, some roads connecting to the farming places have been cleared and the access to those areas has become easy. There will not be any more snakes on those roads because they have been cleared.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, there are numerous developments which are taking place in my constituency, which were not there before the PF Government came into office. I was a member of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) for quite a long time. I was an MMD councillor for fifteen years, and I know what I am talking about. If there had been developments better than those which are taking place under the PF Government, I was not going to hesitate to mention them. However, they were not there. I only managed to get five boreholes under the MMD …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … and the development projects happening now in my area are surpassing those which happened then. Therefore, I am supporting this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, to my colleagues, the hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers, this criticism from the Opposition is sharpening you. Whatever my mbuyas, whom I cannot mention, are debating is normal. Accept their criticism because it is sharpening you. This means that you are going to win because when you are sharpened, you can easily slice someone.

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Chairperson, therefore, I am not going to dwell much on this matter because what I have said is enough.

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you so much for the opportunity to debate the Vote for the Eastern Province. First of all, I want to pay tribute to my late President, Mr Michel Chilufya Sata, who was a darling to the people of Vubwi. In Vubwi, we called him Moses because he discovered Vubwi and made it what it is today, may his soul rest in peace. 

Mr Chairperson, I will start by saying that I stand here to speak as the voice of Vubwi on this Vote. I will also talk about the Eastern Province in general because that is where I come from. In the three years that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been in power, the people of the Eastern Province have seen their lives transformed. 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: It breaks my heart to see people stand here and say that development is not equally distributed because we have seen a lot happen in the Eastern Province. I want to talk about the many projects that are in the province. 

First and foremost, I want to talk about the Great East Road. This road has received a facelift and I am sure that some of you who have walked, driven or cycled on this road can bear witness that this road was a sorry sight. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: At the moment, however, those who have gone there to see, driven or cycled on this road can attest to the fact that this road is now shaping up and becoming a beautiful piece of work. This is being done under the PF Government in the three years that it has been in power. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Before the PF Government came into power, this road would only be resurfaced by one contractor, year in and year out. The road is now being widened and receiving a complete overhaul. For us in the Patriotic Front (PF), this is a plus and we give credit where it is due. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about Chipata District, which has four constituencies. I stay in Chipata and most of the roads have been worked on and tarred. Most of these roads which were a sorry sight have been tarred and people can actually walk in the night because there are street lights now. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: This has been done under the PF Government. 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about health. Chipata was the distribution centre for ambulances. Each district received an ambulance, including Vubwi. At the moment, we have a beautiful district hospital that is being built and I am sure that those who have been to Chipata can attest to the fact that the construction of the hospital has reached an advanced stage. This has also been done under the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Members: RB!

Ms Miti: There is a difference between putting a plan on paper and implementing it. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, I can hear comments that someone, whom I will not mention, did all this. However, if that person put the plan on paper, it does not mean that he or she implemented it. The PF Government is the one which implemented the plan. At the moment, it is a beautiful piece of work that we can see with our eyes and that the people are talking about. So, if someone only put the plan on paper, the PF Government implemented it. 

Mr Chairperson, on road infrastructure, I have talked about the Great East Road. 

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Ng’onga: Iwe, sit down!

Interruptions

Ms Miti: I talked about the Great East Road, but I also want to talk about the Chipata/Vubwi Road which had long been forgotten about. To get to Vubwi, we sometimes had to use Muchinji via Malawi. However, this road is now being tarred. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: For us, the people Vubwi, this is a great achievement because we were forgotten. 

Mr Chairperson, every rainy season, Vubwi would be cut-off from the rest of the world, but now, we can use this road and the journey to Vubwi only takes thirty minutes. This has been done under the PF Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Sometimes, it breaks my heart when people say that the PF Government does not keep promises. During the 2011 General Elections, the Late President Michael Chilufya Sata promised the people of Vubwi to declare Vubwi a district if voted for. After coming to power, he gave Vubwi district status.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: This is something we are proud of, as a people.  

Mr Chairperson, the Chadiza/Chipata Road had not been worked on since time immemorial. It was simply being graded year in and year out. This road has now also been tarred. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, I now want to move onto education. Three basic schools in Vubwi have been upgraded to secondary schools under the PF Government. 

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Miti: The schools which were long forgotten are Mbozi, Chigwe and Mbande. Under the PF Government, we have under construction an ultra-modern boarding secondary school that has reached an advanced stage. It is a beautiful piece of work, something that we, the people of Vubwi, have never seen before. All these projects have happened during the three years of the PF Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, I will also talk about infrastructure development. Currently, in Vubwi, we have a beautiful office block which has twenty offices that will house our civil servants. 

Mr Livune: Mayo!

Ms Miti: We also have a post office being built. We have never had a post office before.  

Mr Chairperson, I can hear someone telling me to talk about agriculture. I will not stay on the Floor long, but …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Just concentrate on your notes. Do not react to hecklers. 

You may continue. 

Ms Miti: Thank you, Sir.

Someone wants me to talk about agriculture. In Vubwi, our farmers have received the D-Compound fertiliser, seed and they now await Urea. Most of our farmers have been paid. 

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo laughed.

Ms Miti: I am sure that if the farmers are listening, they will bear me witness.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: The PF Government is a listening Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: At the moment, the money meant for the farmers in Vubwi is there and our farmers will soon be paid. So, I want to thank the PF Government and urge it to continue with these projects come 20th January, 2015, when Hon. Edgar Chagwa Lungu takes over the mantle as the Republican President of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_____ 

MOTION 

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to. 
________

The House adjourned at 1940 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 10th December, 2014.