DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 12th December, 2014 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____________ 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, consider the Second Reading of the following Bills:

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2014

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2014

The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill, 2014

The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2014

Thereafter, the House will deal with any business that might be outstanding.

Sir, on Wednesday, 17th December, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to consider Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, all things being equal, I intend, on this day, to move a Motion to suspend Standing Orders 20, 21 (1), if necessary, and 101 to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and, thereafter, adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

____________ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

GRAINS SUPPLIED TO THE FRA

285. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    what the total number of farmers who supplied maize and rice grain to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) was;

(b)    of the number above, how many had not been paid, as of 10th December, 2014;

(c)    what had caused the delay in paying all the farmers; and

(d)    what measures the Government was taking to ensure that the unpaid farmers accessed inputs under the 2014/2015 Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

The Deputy Minister Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Sir, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) purchased 1,031,303.30 metric tonnes of maize grain valued at K1,443,824,620 and 1,115 metric tonnes of rice valued at K1,673,220 from farmers. 

Sir, the FRA does not have the figures on the number of farmers who supplied it maize and rice grain because one farmer could have several receipts on delivery of maize or rice. The amount the FRA still owed the farmers who had supplied it maize, as at 10th December, 2014, was K733,774,765 while all the farmers who had sold rice to the agency have been fully paid. 

Sir, the delay in paying the farmers has been due to the large volume of maize supplied to the FRA. Mobilising financial resources for such a big purchase has proved a challenge on the part of the Treasury. However, the Government is committed to paying all the farmers as soon as possible.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) implementation system, has identified beneficiary farmers for the 2014/15 Agricultural Season in all the districts. It is the selected farmers who will benefit from FISP during the 2014/15 Agricultural Season. In view of this, even if the identified beneficiary farmers have faced delays in getting their payments for maize sold to the FRA this year, the inputs are available and waiting for them to pick them up.

Sir, it is not the intention of the Government to delay in paying the farmers. Therefore, efforts are being made to pay all the farmers as soon as possible. Further, the selected farmers are encouraged to explore other means of raising money to pay their contributions for inputs. Lastly, I wish to clarify that not all the farmers owed money by the FRA are beneficiaries of FISP in the 2014/15 Farming Season.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his attempt to answer my question. However, the question arose from three things, namely, the hon. Minister’s inconsistencies on the status quo regarding the payment of farmers, the protest by farmers in Chipata and Lundazi and, finally, the hon. Minister’s own statement on television two days ago to the effect that farmers must ignore all those who wanted to make political capital out of the very sad occasioning of pain on them through not paying them.

Sir, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) collected grain worth K25 million from the farmers …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: … in Mazabuka Central and Chikankata constituencies combined. Of that, only K6 million, representing 24 per cent, has been paid, as of today. I would like to ask the hon. Minister why this situation has been allowed to continue, considering that he made another statement yesterday that K50 million had been released to pay selected farmers in Chipata and other areas where there is agitation by farmers. Is it his wish that the farmers now have to take to the streets in order to get their money?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, before I respond to the hon. Member’s question, let me comment on the three issues that he raised. He said the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, that being me, has been inconsistent, that there have been protests and I said that some politicians are trying to gain cheap political mileage out of the situation regarding the debt owed to farmers.

Mr Speaker, I think that the House will agree that, in my statements on the Floor of this House and elsewhere I have spoken on behalf of the Government, I have been very consistent on payments to farmers. I remember saying that the money would start being released in tranches in late November or early December, 2014. That is what is happening currently. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just a moment, hon. Minister. There are too many conversations going on. To those of you who feel compelled to engage in these conversations, please, the doors are open. I want to follow this discussion very closely and in silence.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Simuusa: I have also said that the Government is releasing the money to the farmers in tranches, which is consistent with the statement I had made earlier. Initially, there had been a commitment made to pay the farmers within one or two weeks after they had supplied their crops. However, that was said at the beginning of the marketing season, in July, 2014. For the first time in a while, there was over K300 million in the banks before the farmers had even supplied their maize. For those who supplied early, the record is there to show that they were paid within one or two weeks. So, when the hon. Member talks about inconsistencies, he is not being factual. Secondly, it is a fact that some politicians are trying to gain cheap political mileage from this issue because there is a statement that was issued that this Government is paying this money because we are going into an election.

Ms Kalima: Yes!

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, even before we knew about this election, that is, before the demise of our great President, we had already made a commitment to pay, which is what we are now doing. So, there is no politician who should say that we are paying because we have seen that there is an election …

Ms Kalima: Ndiye plan yanu.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is the cheap political mileage I am talking about.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I will continue to warn my colleagues that my previous warning will still stand, if they go on at this rate, …

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: … because we are paying. The street protests that we have witnessed have been motivated and orchestrated by the same politicians.

Ms Kalima: What are you saying, iwe?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: We have records, Mr Speaker, in the Northern Province …

Ms Kalima: You have just failed the people.

Mr Simuusa: … and Muchinga provinces, where members of the Opposition, I will not mention their names, …

Mr Ng’onga: Repeat your warning.

Mr Simuusa: … organised …

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: … and incited …

Mr Ng’onga: Repeat your warning.

Mr Simuusa: … farmers, who were very peaceful and happily waiting for the Government to pay them, …

Ms Kalima: That is why you failed to be Patriotic Front (PF) President, booza.

Mr Simuusa: … to protest.

Ms Kapata: Shame.

Mr Simuusa: So, that is the cheap political mileage I am talking about, and it is totally uncalled for.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: To answer the question from Hon. …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let us have order. This is a dignified House.

Mr Simuusa: Sir, to address the question asked by the hon. Member, in terms of payments, in fact, the K733 million that was said to be the outstanding amount has gone down further because K50 million was released yesterday. So, we now have a K680 million balance. Further, I mentioned that the districts to which that money was released are Chinsali, Kasama, Chipata and Choma. More money is being released, and I am sure that Mazabuka will be catered for, probably within a week or as soon as the money is received. Let me stress that it is not because of the coming elections that we are paying the farmers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the Government has created this environment in which some political parties are taking advantage of its inability to pay the farmers …

Mr Mbulakulima: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … the more than K700 million it owes them.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: That is a fact. In fact, if the Patriotic Front (PF) is not careful, it will lose this election on account of this issue. In my constituency, farmers are selling their goats in order for them to access fertiliser. The hon. Ministers of Finance, and Agriculture and Livestock need to tell us when they will pay the farmers. It is good for the farmers and for the PF. So, when will they pay the whole outstanding amount to the farmers instead of hiding behind the political campaigns of the Opposition?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: He is just being sarcastic.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, I am following you very closely although I did not mention it. Just check yourself.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, as I have said, the outstanding amount is less than what is being mentioned. We have reduced it from K1.4 billion to over K600 million, not K700 million. If this is not a sign of performance, then, I think our colleagues in the Opposition are not reading their figures correctly because what is yet to be paid is less than what has been paid out already. As we have already said, one of the reasons that have contributed to this situation is our good will to the farmers. We decided to buy more than we had planned to do and, later, just offloaded the maize on the market so that we could create a market for them instead of abandoning them. Our farmers had cried out to the Government to help create a market for their produce and that is what we have done. We are currently offloading that maize on the export and local markets. That is partly how we are raising the money to pay the farmers. The other source of the money is the Treasury. Evidently, we are very committed. 

Mr Speaker, I want to say it very categorically to the farmer that the Opposition should not deceive them, the House and the nation. The farmers appreciate the money that the Government is giving them.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Simuusa: … there is no Government that has ever given more money to the farmer than the PF. I challenge the Opposition to prove me wrong on that one. They can check their figures. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I assured my hon. Colleagues that I would make a detailed statement before the House rose. What I can say, for now, is that, per farmer, the PF Government has paid out more than any other Government and the farmer appreciates that. We regret the delay, but the farmer will be paid. We have already started settling the debt. Soon, more money will come in and we will update the public as and when necessary.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Before the hon. Member for Mumbwa asks his question, let me state that I know that this is a very sensitive and emotive issue. It is very crucial to our corporate life, as a nation, but let us still proceed in an orderly fashion. For those of you seeking clarification, ask questions instead of long and winding statements. We all know the context because this matter is not arising for the first time on the Floor of this House. So, it is not necessary for anyone to make long preambles. I want to allow as many hon. Members as possible to participate. However, if we proceed in a disorderly manner, I will curtail the debate. I have the power to do that. Our rules say that we have to be orderly in this House. So, let us debate this issue in a sober and earnest manner. I do not underestimate the importance of this matter, but the disorder is unjustifiable.

You may proceed, hon. Member for Mumbwa.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, this problem is a self-inflicted wound for the Patriotic Front (PF). 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo: Can the hon. Minister confirm that one of the reasons we have this situation is that the large-scale farmers were prioritised over the small-scale ones in the payments for supplied maize. The ‘big-fish’ farmers got the lion’s share.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the issue that Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo has raised is a very pertinent one. It is one of the challenges that we will address, especially in the next season. Ideally, we are supposed to prioritise the small-scale farmers, especially the ones on FISP. However, there has been a bit of a disconnection between the ministry and the FRA in the marketing and collection of the grain. The FRA depots were opened to whichever farmer took maize there. However, things will be very different next year because we know that the vulnerable farmers are those on FISP. That said, even this time, we have accommodated the small-scale farmer although not prioritised them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would have loved the hon. Minister to be remorseful for the pain that has been inflicted on the farmers. Can he be categorical and state when the farmers in Mazabuka will be paid. Earlier, he used the term ‘probably.’

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I do not want to make any commitment now …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: … because we are releasing the money as it comes in from the Treasury. I know that some money will released next week and I will make an announcement on Monday or Tuesday, that is, 15th or 16th December, 2014, about the districts that will benefit. Possibly, Mazabuka will be on that list.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo: What do you mean by, “Possibly”?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Laughter

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, this problem is self-inflicted.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Simbao: Even if they say, “Question!”, it is self-inflicted.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, of what use is the deadline for the payment of the farmer in Mazabuka when so many deadlines have been missed? The first deadline was two weeks after the delivery of the maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). If I remember correctly, the other deadline was end of October, 2014, but we are now in December. So, of what use is it to tell the farmer in Mazabuka that the PF has done well in paying farmers when they have not been paid? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I have already addressed this question. The farmer will be paid. My colleagues should listen to the farmers who have been paid and how appreciative they are of the Government. If they went to the rural areas, they will find farmers who have been paid buying Canters and ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: ... motorcycles and building better houses than the houses many of us in the towns are building. I challenge the Opposition to deny this. When the remaining few have been paid, I challenge the Opposition to talk to them and see how happy they will be because of the money they will have received. Our policy is that of putting more money in people’s pockets.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I have been told twice now that this issue is a self-inflicted problem. This gesture was made in good faith because we wanted to support our farmers. The floor price of K70 per 50 kg bag of maize was the best on the market this season. No other buyer offered that much. The others offered between K40 and K50. The farmers in Shang’ombo or Mazabuka would have had a challenge marketing their maize, yet we knew that there is an export market. So, we made the effort to support them. However, as things happen sometimes, there was a delay, which we regret and are currently correcting.

Ms Kalima: Mulekwatako ne nsoni.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, on 20th January, 2014, as the vote comes in, the real appreciation will be seen because we will be back.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I think that I had singled out the hon. Member for Chembe.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I want to follow your …

Mr Speaker: By the way, I am not allowing points of order until we are done with this business. I forgot to mention that.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I want to follow your guidance religiously. However, we need your help on some of the answers we get. 

Mr Nkombo: That is right. That is what I wanted to say to him.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, these kinds of situations turn angels into demons and good people into bad ones. A national issue like this one should be paid the serious attention that it deserves. As I speak to you, the people of Milenge and Mansa in Luapula Province are seriously suffering. The hon. Minister has officially conceded that K733 million is still outstanding out of K1.4 billion, although he has said that K50 million has been paid. That is a real situation, not mere political rhetoric of the Opposition.

Mr Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has made so many statements on this issue. At the beginning of the marketing season, he said that farmers would be paid within two weeks. Since then, there have been several statements made. Instead of making these isolated statements from the ivory tower, can he not take a tour of the country to apologise to Zambians, who have suffered greatly? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, Hon. Mbulakulima should visit his constituency and districts.  Last week, K250,000 was released and all the farmers in Milenge and the whole of Luapula Province have been fully paid.

Mr Mbulakulima: Fully paid?

Mr Simuusa: He stood on the Floor of this House and said that the farmers in Milenge have not been paid but, much as he is encouraging me to tour the country, which I will do when the House rises, he should be factual. He should be visiting his constituency and districts so that he knows what is happening there.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chembe, you know that you cannot speak while seated. It is a basic rule.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, where I come from, when in distress, we cry out, ‘Mawe,’ with our hands on the back of our head.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: I have already said that it is a distress call.

Mr Speaker, this farming season has been an unprecedented disaster, as you have heard and seen. Today, the hon. Minister is saying that our farmers are lucky to get paid. Is it true that the farmers have to wait until the Government is paid for the maize that it exported before they can be paid for their maize? Is that the Government’s position?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me address the first part of his question, which is that this farming season has been a disaster. That is not correct because, for the first time in a long time, the farming inputs have been distributed on time. What makes farming or agriculture a success is the timely preparation of land and application of all the inputs, such as fertiliser, on time and, by August, 2014, the inputs were in the districts in readiness for the farming season. As I am talking, over 70 per cent of the inputs have been collected by the farmers. Everything is in place and the money is there. Some farmers were paid early and bought inputs while others sourced money elsewhere and bought the inputs, which were subsidised at more than 50 per cent by the PF Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: … for their benefit. Some farmers bought the inputs even before the FRA had paid them. Therefore, this farming season is far from being a disaster. In fact, it is a success story. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: The farmers who got the money and bought the inputs have planted their crops. I was shown a picture of very green maize in a field. It is a pity that I do not have it here. I will bring it …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: To whom?

Mr Simuusa: … because I speak with facts, just like I have urged my colleagues to do.

Sir, we are working on clearing the outstanding balance. We are not waiting for all the maize to be offloaded on the market and paid for before we can pay the farmers. We have more than one source for the money, most of which will come from the Treasury. I know that more significant amounts of money will be released next week and I will update the nation on the districts whose farmers will be paid. In fact, the farmers in Hon. Dr Kaingu’s district in the Western Province have been paid in full. I thought that I should mention that because the hon. Member has not acknowledged it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I will start chasing away hon. Members who resist discipline from the Chair. Maybe, we may make more progress that way. 

I will give the Floor to the hon. Members for Katombola, Chipata Central, Chadiza, Kasenengwa and Masaiti, in that order.

Mr Livune (Katombola) Mr Speaker, farmers get paid once a year. So, I commend those farmers who are protesting because it is their right to attract attention.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that the ministry had already chosen the farmers who will benefit from the Fertiliser Input Support Programme (FISP) in the 2014/2015 Farming Season. What criterion was used to select those farmers? In my language, we say, “Batalika kusalaula balimi,” meaning, “They have started choosing which farmers to support.”  

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I still urge the Opposition to stop inciting the farmers. The farmers appreciate what the Government is doing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: We are moving together.

Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Member of Parliament knows the criteria. In fact, I think that he is involved in that process. The selection is done by Camp Advisory Committees (CACs) and the District Agriculture Advisory Committee (DAAC), which are district agriculture committees comprising officials from the ministry, the local leadership, farmer’s associations and traditional leaders. I think that the hon. Member of Parliament inputs into the work of that committee, but I will have to confirm that. As a ministry, we do not unilaterally decide who to support. The committees identify the vulnerable farmers who need inputs and write a list for the ministry. Therefore, there is no kusalulula, which is ‘segregation.’ The process follows a bottom-up approach. The inputs are delivered to the CACs, which select the beneficiaries. We only process what comes from there.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, during the very able leadership of President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mtolo: … farmers were paid for their produce sold to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and no farmers were ever arrested for demanding their money. The hon. Minister for Eastern Province can attest to that. In this House, the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, gave a very clear order to the hon. Minister to pay the farmers. He asked us to give him the names of the farmers who had not been paid and promised that they would be paid in two weeks. The hon. Minister has that list. Is it in order for him to defy a Presidential order? Is he in order not to obey the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Zambia, the late President? 

Hon. Government Members: Are you raising a point of order?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I am asking this question like a point of order. Why are the hon. Ministers not doing …

Mr Speaker: You have already asked your question.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, why is the hon. Minister not seeking guidance from President Rupiah Bwezani Banda on how to pay farmers? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I will bring data to the House for the benefit of the hon. Member. We are actually doing quite well in paying farmers because, before we came into power, farmers used to go unpaid until March. In our case, some farmers were paid within two weeks of the start of the marketing season in July, 2014. What we are dealing with now is the excess maize that we collected. All the 500,000 metric tonnes of maize that was budgeted for has been paid for. Like I said earlier, we bought more than we had budgeted for out of our goodwill towards our hardworking farmers. To underscore our position, once again, the PF Government has prioritised farmers and agriculture, in general, as a sector that will drive our economy forward. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, we were like them (pointing to the Front Bench) and they will be like us. 

Laughter 

Mr Mbewe: Sir, …

Mr Mbulakulima: Very soon. 

Mr Mbewe: ... what criterion was used to pay farmers, particularly in the Eastern Province, where farmers in all the districts have not been paid, except for those in Vubwi? Is it because Vubwi voted for the Patriotic Front (PF)?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, there are two criteria used. First, we consider the farmers we can clear with the available money. For instance, the farmers in Mambwe and Vubwi could be cleared in one disbursement. Mind you, we had also said that we would clear farmers in the provincial capitals first and Chinsali, Chipata, Choma and Kasama are the only provincial capitals where farmers have not been paid. These are the two criteria we used. Districts, including Chadiza, will be cleared with the next allocation.   

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I am very shocked by the hon. Minister’s sarcasm. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Instead of apologising, like Hon. Mbulakulima suggested, he has decided to make things worse. Personally, I think that there are two things. Either it is because he was a presidential candidate …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, my guidance for hon. Members to avoid long and winding statements, especially on irrelevant matters, was very clear. We have a specific subject here. If you have no question, please, pass the chance to other hon. Members who have questions. 

Please, ask your question. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Thank you, Sir. 

He probably just wants to nail it and finish it off. 

Laughter 

Mr Lubinda: Nail it where?

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, part of the K50 million that has been released is meant for Chipata. Can the hon. Minister tell this House and the people of Kasenengwa how much of that amount will paid to the farmers in Chipata and what the balance for the Eastern Province will be thereafter. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I assured the House that I will come with those details in a statement before we rise because I need to put them very categorically.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the farmers in Luapula Province were paid. However, those in Lufwanyama and Masaiti, rural districts of the Copperbelt Province, protested two days ago for not being paid. Hon. Anne Chungu and I are very humble hon. Members of Parliament who cannot ask the farmers to protest. So, is he saying that this is the way to disburse the money that he gets from the Ministry of Finance? Does he not realise that farming is a business and that he is delaying our farmers’ preparations for this farming season? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the Copperbelt Province was one of the first to be cleared. In fact, last Tuesday, all the funds for the Copperbelt, including Lufwanyama District, were released. However, I must confess that we are having a challenge with our banks’ ability to process these large amounts. So, I urge the banks to streamline their procedures and clear bottlenecks so that our farmers are paid. I even ask the hon. Member of Parliament to assist us by pushing the banks because the money has been released. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: The next set of debaters will be the hon. Members for Kabompo West, Magoye, Siavonga, Bweengwa, …

Hon. UPND Members: The hon. Member for Bweengwa is not here.

Mr Speaker: He was here and indicated. 

After that, we will have the hon. Members for Rufunsa, Chipangali and, finally, Dundumwezi.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, when one bites off more than they can chew, it can never be the food’s fault. 

Laughter 

Mr Lufuma: It can only be the fault of the person. 

Laughter  

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, a lack of planning on the part of the Government should not cause a crisis or hardship for the farmer. So, when people say that the problem is self-inflicted, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kabompo West, …

Mr Lufuma: Thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: ... we have a long list of hon. Members who want to ask questions on this subject. We also have a lot of other matters to consider. 

Mr Lufuma: I appreciate that guidance, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister categorically stated that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) collected more than it had planned for, hence its inability to pay. Given that fact, I would like to know whether the FRA’s mandate and policy of being buyers for Strategic Food Reserves has changed. If that is the case, can he come out categorically so that the private sector, which is supposed to be a partner in crop marketing, can re-direct its resources elsewhere.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to correct the hon. Member. I did not say that we are unable to pay for the excess maize that we collected. What I said is that there has been a delay in doing so. Regarding the policy and mandate of the FRA, I wish to say that they have not changed. We are learning our lessons and, as I have said on the Floor of this House, things will be very different next year.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister boasted of having delivered inputs early this year and that more than 70 per cent of them had been collected. Has he ever thought of other needs the unpaid farmers have had to forego in order to access the inputs? I ask this because most of them have not been able to send their children to school.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we have thought of those needs. That is why I have categorically stated that we regret the delay. The bottom line is that we are paying the farmers and all will be paid very soon. Working together, I am confident that we shall, again, if God blesses us with good weather, have another bumper harvest. 

I thank you, Sir.  

 Mr Speaker: The other hon. Members on my list are absent. So, the hon. Member for Rufunsa can ask his question. 

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, for sure, this country is in a crisis in as far as the farming community is concerned, considering the rainfall pattern we have. This is a very serious matter. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chipungu: Sir, I would like to find out …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I will end up curtailing the debates of hon. Members who will proceed in this fashion. One cannot resist guidance with such statements. Who does not know that this is a serious matter? Why would we spend all this time talking about it if it was not? 

Continue. 

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the amount of money that we are talking about is very little. Is it not possible for the Government to borrow it from the banks or its co-operating partners so that it can pay all the farmers simultaneously before 20th January, 2015?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is a valid submission. Like I said, I will bring all the details next week. However, that is an option we are considering seriously.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, farming is a business and the Government has delayed paying farmers, sometimes up to six months. As a result, some have had to borrow money from shylocks …

Mr Mwanza: Zoona.

Mr Mwale: … to prepare for this farming season. So, they have lost money. Will the Government consider paying them some form of interest or compensation for paying them late, …

Mr Mbulakulima: Very good.

Mr Mwale: … which has caused them to borrow?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me correct the hon. Member. The maximum time it has taken to pay a farmer is three to four months, not six months.

Sir, interest or compensation will not be paid because the price that was offered was the best on the market and the Government’s good gesture is appreciated.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that most of the farmers have planted their crops because he distributed the inputs early. However, is he aware that the inputs cannot be exchanged for services given to the famers, such as health and education? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I realise and regret that fact, and this is the same answer that I gave to the hon. Member for Siavonga. We will pay the farmers as soon as possible.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, when will the hon. Minister pay the farmers in Shibuyunji and Mumbwa Districts?

Mr Speaker: At the risk of repetition, hon. Minister, please, answer the question.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, Shibuyunji District is in Lusaka District, is it not? 

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: The whole of Lusaka Province has been cleared. The money or Lusaka Province was released last week on Wednesday, 3rd December, 2014. That is why I said that hon. Members should assist us to push the banking institutions to pay our farmers. 

Sir, Shibuyunji and Mumbwa, which I thought were under Lusaka Province, will be covered under Central Province in the next disbursement. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the banks are holding on to the farmers’ money as if it were theirs. Why can the hon. Minister not direct them to pay the farmers quickly? The issue here is not about telling us what is happening, but directing the banks to pay the farmers.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I think that I have done that effectively. However, like I said, the challenge is that the amounts of money involved are huge and some banks are overwhelmed, like we saw in Kaoma. The banks have to sort out their procedures and make their processes work faster. So, to agree with Hon. Mbulakulima, I will tour the country shortly after we rise to facilitate the speedy release of this money to the farmers. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister blame the farmers if he fails to pay them by 20th January, 2015, and they decide to vote the Patriotic Front (PF) out of office? Can he assure all the farmers that they will be paid their money by 20th January, 2015.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, my simple answer to that question is that we should wait and see.

Dr Kaingu: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: That is all I will say.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s opinion, is paying the farmers for their produce a favour or an obligation?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you do not need to answer that question.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has twice mentioned that the farmers in Luapula Province have been paid. Can he confirm whether that is the correct position because misleading this House is a serious breach of the Standing Orders.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I confirm on the Floor of this House that all the money for Luapula Province was released on 3rd or 4th December, 2014. However, on the ground, there are issues of queues and the inefficiency of the banks. So, whether all the farmers have been paid within the last few days or not is something I will have to go on the ground to confirm. I repeat, it is a question of how many farmers have actually collected their money, considering the constraints that we have.

I thank you, Sir. 

ARMY WORMS IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE

286.    Ms Kalima asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that some parts of the Eastern Province had been attacked by army worms and, if so, which areas these were; and 

(b)    what measures the Government was taking to eradicate the worms in the affected areas.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the outbreak of army worms in the Eastern Province, specifically in Munukwa and Kalichero Agricultural Camps in Chipata District. An assessment conducted reviewed that two fields with a combined size of 2 ha were attacked. However, the attacks on crops were not severe at the time of reporting. It was estimated that less than 10 per cent of the fields had been significantly attacked.

Sir, the affected fields have already been sprayed to control the worms. Further, in order to prepare for any eventualities, the ministry has distributed chemicals to all provincial offices for onward distribution to the districts. In addition, army worm traps have been installed in all the districts to enhance the monitoring of the worms. The ministry has also stepped up surveillance and early warning systems across the country.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, other than the Eastern Province, have army worm attacks been reported in any other province? 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we have not received information of attacks from any part of the country other than the Eastern Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, what help will the Government give to the farmers whose crops have been attacked by the army worms? 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I have just explained that chemicals have already been sent to our provincial headquarters for onward distribution to the districts where our farmers are. So, if any farmer’s field will be attacked by army worms, our staff will move in quickly and assist them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, 10 per cent of the 2 ha that was attacked by the army worms is clearly a significant loss. Will the ministry compensate the owner of the field?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, this is what people call an act of God. The Government cannot compensate the farmer because it was neither its fault nor the farmer’s. It is just an unfortunate thing that took place. Therefore, there will be no compensation from the Government.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, why is it that, ever since the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, army worms, …

Laughter

Mr L. J. Ngoma:  … commonly known as nchembele za ndonda in my language, have become a very common feature? Is the PF Government a blessing or a curse?

Mr Speaker: Order! 

There is no need to answer that question.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The electorates will answer it. 

Laughter

Mr Livune: It is a curse, Sir!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that there will be no compensation because the said situation was an act of God. However, there is evidence of victims of floods, which I believe to also be an act of God, being compensated before in this country. What is the difference between an attack of army worms and floods? Are they not both acts of God?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the difference is that the floods that have been referred to may have been classified as a national disaster. In those circumstances, the Government comes in and assists its people who are affected. In this case, however, we are only talking about two fields. Surely, that is not a national disaster. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the invasion by army worms has happened twice in about three years. What is their origin? Are they endemic to our country or do they originate elsewhere?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we cannot talk about what is happening in other countries because we do not have that information. All we know is that we have that misfortune. I think, this is the second time it is happening since this Government was elected into office. 

Sir, usually, what precipitates the emergence of army worms is a sudden transition from very hot to rainy weather. So, there is a dramatic change in the weather. That is what promotes the emergence of army worms in some parts of our country. That is all I can say.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, this question has been asked by the hon. Member for Kasenengwa because the people in her constituency spotted the army worms in the Chiparamba area. In his response, the hon. Minister said that, actually, the ministry discovered the army worms in Chipangali, Munukwa and Mzeyi. Should it not worry us that people have seen these army worms in Chiparamba and the ministry is talking about them being seen in Chipangali? Should we not be worried that, maybe, the problem is widespread?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, Chiparamba, I believe, is in the same area as Chipangali. I have explained to the House and, through the House, the nation that our officers are on the ground doing what we call surveillance so that, wherever the army worms are spotted, they will be controlled. In fact, let me appeal to our people to report these very devastating creatures to our officers as soon as they see them so that our officers can quickly move in and control the outbreak. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the people who are affected by the reported attack are peasant farmers who could have borrowed inputs from the Government. Will the hon. Minister make them pay back the inputs?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I do not know how different that question is from the one that was asked earlier on whether the farmers would be compensated. The farmers, unfortunately, have to pay for whatever inputs they may have obtained from the Government through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). That is the position.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, it is very clear from the responses of the hon. Minister that the ministry is more reactive, than proactive, in dealing with army worms. For example, he says that it is an act of God or a misfortune. The ministry also set up traps after seeing the army worms. Is the ministry not considering being more proactive by putting in place a research programme that will help us understand army worms so that we can develop long-term solutions to the problem in the country?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, it is like I anticipated that question. We will conduct that kind of research so that we are forewarned by the scientists and avoid taking action after the army worms emerge. So, thank you for that suggestion. In fact, we will go into that.

Thank you, Sir.

STORAGE OF DRUGS IN SIKONGO

287. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    when refrigerators for storage of drugs, especially vaccines for children, would be provided to the following health centres in Sikongo Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)    Mwenyi;

(ii)    Liumena; and

(iii)    Situlu; and

(b)    when a driver for the ambulance at Sikongo Rural Health Centre would be recruited.

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, the refrigerators for the storage of drugs …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Ms Kabanshi: … have already been procured by the ministry and are awaiting delivery to the three health centres and installation in the next few weeks. 

Sir, a driver for the ambulance at Sikongo cannot be employed currently due to the non-availability of a funded position on the staff establishment. However, administrative arrangements have been put in place to redeploy a driver from Kalabo to take up the position while we await the creation of a funded position for the district.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, why is the driver who has been redeployed to Sikongo still in Kalabo instead of Sikongo so that he can start taking patients to the hospitals in Kalabo?

Mr Speaker: I thought the hon. Minister has explained that point.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the people of Sikongo appreciate the Government’s procurement of refrigerators for the storage of drugs, but they are worried because they do not know when the refrigerators will be delivered to the health centres. The hon. Minister stated that they will be delivered within the next few weeks, but that could mean next year. Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister to indicate when the refrigerators will …

Mr Speaker: The question has been asked.

Ms Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, this is a hardworking Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kabanshi: … that wants to provide storage facilities to all the health centres. So, when we say, “In a few weeks,” we mean just that. It can even be tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the refrigerators will be provided to all the health centres countrywide in the next few weeks. Can she confirm whether that includes Liuwa.

Mr Speaker: I think that we are stretching matters. Let us move to the next item. 

_________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2014

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. 

Sir, the Bill before this House principally seeks to limit the exemption from paying the Property Transfer Tax to groups of companies whose holding company is incorporated in Zambia when such companies undergo re-organisation. This revision is aimed at ensuring tax relief on transfer of property due to re-structuring of operations in a group of companies is restricted to groups of companies whose holding companies are incorporated in Zambia. This will enhance our efforts to minimise tax avoidance. 

Sir, the proposed amendment is straightforward. So, I ask the House to support the Bill. 

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, your Committee considered various submissions on the Property Transfer Tax Amendment Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 6 of 2014, referred to it by this House on 28th November, 2014. The object of the Bill is to limit the exemption from paying tax on the transfer of property when there is a group re-organisation in companies whose holding companies are incorporated in Zambia.

Sir, your Committee supports the Bill and commends the Government for bringing it to the House. The stakeholders who appeared before your Committee also supported the Bill, as it will encourage holding companies to be incorporated in Zambia. However, in supporting the Bill, some of the stakeholders expressed concern over the negative impact it might have on foreign direct investment (FDI) in Zambia. To that effect, your Committee hopes that the Ministry of Finance will put in place measures to mitigate the Bill’s negative impact on the FDI, if any.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, while appreciating that the amendment Bill will minimise tax avoidance and urging the House to pass it, strongly recommends that the word, ‘Re-organisation’ be either replaced or clearly defined.

Sir, I wish to conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input into the findings of your Committee. I also thank you for affording your Committee the opportunity to consider the Bill. Gratitude also goes to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support rendered to your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank your Committee on Estimates and the hon. Members for supporting the Bill. I also take note of the observations made by the Committee and other stakeholders.

Sir, Zambia is a destination of choice for investment in Africa due to the many positive attributes of which we are proud, as a country. One of them is a generous fiscal incentive structure. For this reason, we have no doubt that the proposed amendment will not, in any way, affect foreign direct investment (FDI) as feared by some stakeholders. Instead, it will streamline tax law and minimise tax avoidance.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is straightforward. So, I commend it to the House. 

Sir, I beg to move.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee, on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014.

THE ZAMBIA REVENUE AUTHORITY (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Bill before the House seeks to indemnify the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) against any form of execution of a judgment or a court order obtained against it to seize its property.

Sir, this Bill is straightforward. Therefore, I commend it to the House.

Mr Speaker I beg to move.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to present the views of your Committee on the Zambia Revenue Authority (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 7 of 2014.

Sir, the principal reason that has been advanced to justify the amendment is that of indemnifying the authority against any form of execution of a judgment or a court order obtained against it. Under the current Zambia Revenue Authority Act, Chapter 321, a person entitled to payment of money upon obtaining a judgment or court order against the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) can obtain any form of execution of a judgment or a court order against the authority, meaning that such a person can seize the assets of the authority to secure payment of a judgment debt, as the assets are not currently protected by law against seizure. The amendment is, therefore, intended to protect the assets of the ZRA, which is a Government institution, from seizure by persons who obtain judgments or court orders against the authority. 

Sir, the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee informed it that, if left unchecked, the current legal context exposed ZRA property to seizure by bailiffs, which could result in serious disruption of operations and the country’s revenue collection. Any judgment or court order obtained against the institution should be settled using ZRA funds or refund provisions already provided for in the law. In light of this, your Committee observes that, whereas the Bill seeks to protect the property of the ZRA, little or no recourse has been given to the aggrieved party. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government ensures that appropriate measures of redress for the aggrieved party or parties are put in place. Further, your Committee observes that the period in which the judgment or order should be settled has not been specified. This appears to be unfair to the aggrieved party. So, the law should address this matter. Subject to the above, your Committee recommends that the House supports the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, I have read your Committee’s report and am of the view that this amendment …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on a point of order, which I believe to be crucial to national interest.

Sir, is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in order to continue abusing public resources during the Presidential By-election to its advantage? For instance, the Permanent Secretary for the Western Province has ordered all District Commissioners (DCs) in that province, who are civil servants, to attend Hon. Edgar Lungu’s campaign rally in Mongu tomorrow, ...

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: ... meaning that they will use public resources to travel from their various districts.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: I am also aware, Sir, that, when my elder brother, Hon. Lungu, launched his campaigns on the Copperbelt, some hon. Ministers forced Transport Officers in their ministries to fix fake number plates on Government vehicles so that they could be used to take people to the Copperbelt to support the launch of a party, not Government, programme. Is the PF in order to continue abusing public resources in its quest to hold on to power at a time when it knows that it is losing it? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

My ruling is that, first and foremost, I have no clue concerning the factuality of the matters that have been raised in the point of order.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I cannot establish the veracity of those matters. Secondly, they do not fall under my remit, as Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Workshop!

Mr Speaker: We have passed laws, including delegated legislation, which assign those functions to other bodies. This is a constitutional democracy and we follow the rule of law.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The body that has been specifically mandated by the Constitution to supervise elections in this country is the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). Therefore, those who are concerned about levelling the playing field should take recourse to the ECZ and, ultimately, if that proves inadequate, to the courts of law.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The Speaker has no jurisdiction over this matter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa continue, please. 

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that, considering your Committee’s recommendation to amend the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) Act, …

Interruptions

Mr Mucheleka: Kuya bebele!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us listen to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, with regard to the disputes that arise, would it not be prudent that the courts of law decide where and how they should be resolved? Are there no in-built mechanisms to safeguard the very important revenue collection function of the authority? How can the other party feel that justice has been served when they have to complain to the authority with which they have determined …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am not following the hon. Member on the Floor because there are too many conversations.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, how would the aggrieved party feel that justice has been served when their complaint will be considered by the organisation with which they have a dispute? Should we not leave this law as it is so that the competent authority adjudicates the cases and decides what remedies can be sought and how they can be enforced? Secondly, if the Act is left as it is, will it not motivate the ZRA to work more proficiently and competently so that disputes do not arise or are minimised? That way, the ZRA would operate purely as a business venture. By this amendment, are we not promoting complacency on the ZRA’s part, as it will know that it is above being held accountable for its actions by, for example, a person obtaining warrants of distress against it? I feel that, by giving the ZRA this indemnity, we are not assisting it. In the long run, it will not benefit the country and the business community, who are the taxpayers.

Sir, I thought I should air those views.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I do not support the proposed amendment to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) Act simply because the Judiciary has the authority to adjudicate and make a decision to compel institutions, including the ZRA, to meet their obligations, and the only way we can protect the mandate of the Judiciary in this regard is by ensuring that its judgments are fully executable even against statutory institutions like the ZRA.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, to some extent, has not clearly communicated its recommendation. On Page 2, the Committee states that the Bill seeks to protect the property of the ZRA. However, little or nothing has been provided to which the aggrieved party can take recourse. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government ensures that appropriate measures are taken to provide for redress for the aggrieved party. Further, your Committee observes that the period in which the judgment or order should be settled has not been specified. So, there are two issues here. One is that there has been no commitment by the Government in this proposed amendment to provide for redress for the aggrieved party. Your Committee has failed us because it has not protected the interest of the aggrieved parties in this case. For example, imagine a former employee of the ZRA who has not been paid their benefits and has gone to court and obtained a judgment in their favour. Then, they go to the ZRA to plead to be paid because there is a law that says that they cannot execute the judgment any other way. The former employee will continue suffering and fail to provide for their children because there will be no way of compelling the ZRA to meet its obligations. Evidently, this amendment is unfair and your Committee should have sent it back for the means of redress for the aggrieved party to be provided for. We have seen statutory institutions like the National Housing Authority (NHA) visited by bailiffs for failing to meet their obligations. Why should the case be different for the ZRA? Is the hon. Minister trying to protect the ZRA to the extent that it can deliberately fail to meet its commitments?

Sir, I also feel that this amendment undermines the authority of the Judiciary because their judgments against the ZRA will not be fully executable, hence merely academic. So, the hon. Minister needs to revisit this unfair amendment so that it can provide for means of redress for the aggrieved parties. 

Sir, for the two reasons I have discussed, I do not support the amendment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour and the hon. Members who have supported this Bill. 

Sir, I have taken note of the observations of the Committee concerning the period in which judgments or court orders should be settled. However, it is fundamentally important to secure the property of the ZRA against seizure so that the mobilisation of resources for the Treasury is not disrupted. That said, I appreciate the fact that this has to be done justly. In this regard, it might be helpful for the House to note that the Bill has provided for the Commissioner-General of the ZRA to pay judgment debt out of the general revenues of the Republic or from the funds of the ZRA. So, I assure the House that judgments entered against the ZRA will be settled expeditiously. The Bill does not intend to allow the institution to abuse its authority by withholding payments ordered by the courts, but just to protect the public interest by preventing the seizure of its property. We must also take into account the fact that the people in the Judiciary are also human. So, we should try to insulate them against unnecessary temptations. 

Sir, this Bill is straightforward. So, I commend it to the House.

I thank you, Sir. 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee, on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014.

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. 

Sir, the Bill before this House principally seeks to:

(a)    provide councils with a predictable and buoyant source of funding from the Central Government to supplement their revenues. This will be achieved by the establishment of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) which will receive an annual appropriation at a fixed minimum of the Central Government’s income tax revenues; and

(b)    strengthen the autonomy of councils and their accountability to the communities they serve. It is envisaged that this will be achieved by giving councils full discretion on how the funding from the LGEF will be used to address locally identified priorities.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, under the proposed Bill, councils will be guaranteed a minimum of 5 per cent of the Central Government’s income tax revenue each year. This will ensure that the grants to councils keep pace with the ability of the Central Government to collect income taxes. In addition, the percentage to be allocated to the fund each year might be raised above the minimum 5 per cent in subsequent budgets after further assessment of the financial requirements of councils in their execution of their functions in comparison with those of the Central Government.

Sir, the amendments being proposed are straightforward. So, I commend the Bill to the House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered various submissions on the Local Government (Amendment) Bill, 2014, referred to it by this House on 28th November, 2014. The objects of the Bill are to provide for:

(a)    the establishment of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF);

(b)    the disbursement of funds from the fund to councils;

(c)    the deletion of the provision relating to the Government making grants and loans to councils; and

(d)    matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours to 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I had just finished outlining the objects of the Local Government (Amendment) Bill.

Sir, I wish to state, from the outset, that your Committee supports this important piece of legislation and commends the Government for bringing it to the House. Having considered the various submissions and concerns raised by stakeholders, your Committee recommends that the Bill be supported by the House subject to the specific observations and recommendations.

Sir, your Committee observes that the Bill proposes to delete the provision obligating the Government to make specific grants to councils for water and sanitation, health, fire, road, police, primary education, agricultural services and salaries of officers of the councils. This appears to directly contradict the intent of the Bill, which is to supplement, rather than complement, the existing Government financing to councils. Your Committee is cognisant of the fact that the current grants are inadequate to enable the local authorities to meet their principal functions. In this regard, and in agreeing with the intent of the Bill, your Committee strongly recommends that the provision relating to the Government’s provision of grants and loans to councils not be deleted, as the LGEF might not be a sufficient source of funding for the local authorities’ delivery of services and investment in infrastructure and other developmental programmes. In particular, your Committee is seriously concerned that the amendment proposes to remove the provision of grants to local authorities to meet expenditure on personal emoluments, which is likely to create a very serious problem as most councils may fail to pay salaries, as has been the case in the past. So, in the event that the provision is deleted, your Committee strongly recommends that the minimum percentage of the Government revenue to be appropriated through the LGEF be increased from 5 per cent to 10 per cent. Regarding the conditions attached to access to the fund, your Committee is of the view that, where there is clear abuse of the funds, the employees found wanting should be dealt with, but the fund should still be disbursed to the affected council.

Sir, as I conclude, I wish to express your Committee’s gratitude to all the stakeholders who appeared before it. I also thank you for affording your Committee the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill. Your Committee also appreciates the services rendered to it by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and the permanent witnesses from the Ministry of Justice.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, my contribution will not be long, as I wish to just raise one or two points on your Committee’s report. 

Sir, I totally agree with the Chairperson of your Committee’s recommendation that the hon. Minister does not scrap all the money that councils have been receiving from the Central Government. This is because some district councils are completely moribund. If it was not for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I do not know if they would be anything other than just institutions that would be there just for people to get salaries without doing anything. I remember, not long ago, district councils had what we called commercial directors. If the Government is not able to fund the councils, I propose that it gives them seed money so that they can participate in some business ventures in their districts. As I have already said, if it was not for the CDF, particularly in my Constituency and district, Mwandi, there would be nothing for this Government to point at and say it has done for the people there. I wanted to put it on record that the councils are, indeed, in a desperate situation and that to wean them off, at this time, would be disastrous.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the Committee on Estimates and the hon. Members for supporting the Bill. 

Sir, I assure the House that I have taken note of the observations made by your Committee and the stakeholders. May I take this opportunity to respond to some of them.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we strengthen the autonomy of the councils and enhance their accountability to their communities. However, the retention of centrally determined specific grants, as set out in Sub-Section III of Section 44 undermines that autonomy and accountability. By allowing the councils to decide how to use their grants from the LGEF, the Government is enhancing their autonomy and empowering them to respond to the needs of their communities. 

Sir, since the intention of the Bill is to supplement the councils’ resources, I assure the House that the proposed amendments do not, in any way, contradict the purpose of the LGEF.

Sir, the minimum percentage of the total Government revenue to be appropriated through the LGEF might be increased to 10 per cent, as proposed by the Committee, when a more thorough assessment of the councils’ revenue and expenditure needs is completed.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members have expressed concern that the salaries of council workers may not be paid if the specific salary grant is abolished. They may wish to know, however, that the current annual salaries bill for all councils in Zambia is under K400 million while the 2015 allocation to the LGEF is K589.4 million. That shows that the funding under the LGEF will be more than sufficient for councils to meet their wage and salary obligations. However, I reiterate that it is not the responsibility of the Central Government to explicitly pay the salaries of council workers, which would encourage them to see themselves as Government workers when their accountability should be to their local citizens. The Central Government’s duty is to ensure that the overall financial arrangements between itself and the local governments are conducive to a thriving and locally accountable local government system. The creation of the LGEF is the first step towards delivering on that.

Mr Speaker, the Committee’s recommendation that Clause (vi) of the proposed Section 45(a) be redrafted to reflect the conditions relating to sound financial management practices and that the delivery of the prescribed minimum level of saving be set out in the Statutory Instrument (SI) is accepted. However, it is envisaged that the conditions will not initially be very onerous, but may be raised as the performance of the councils improves. In the past, many councils were financially self-sufficient. In fact, some big city councils like Lusaka, Kitwe and Ndola were budget-surplus areas when I was Minister of Local Government in the late 1970s. It is the political system that we instituted thereafter that has ruined the councils by killing the motivation and adversely affecting their performance. Let us rekindle that spirit the councils once had. Many of them can be self-sufficient. I remember that, not too long ago, a council like Chipata Municipal Council was a budget-surplus area but, as you know, things have been deteriorating. So, we must arrest the deterioration. The LGEF is the beginning of that effort. In future, there will be more robust revenue sharing between the local authorities and the Central Government, but that will depend on the state of the economy. Currently, we should not make proposals that put severe pressure on the National Budget because our fiscal position is not the healthiest. Further, given the exigencies in the global economy, we must be careful not to come up with arrangements that will incapacitate the Government’s functioning.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members, once again, for their support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014.

__________ 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 88 – (Muchinga Province – K44,628,942), VOTE 90 – (Lusaka Province – K71,735,283), VOTE 91 – (Copperbelt Province – K86,543,109), VOTE 92 – (Central Province – K71,183,670), VOTE 93 – (Northern Province – K88,641,594), VOTE 94 – (Western Province – K71,469,364), VOTE 95 – (Eastern Province – K78,182,138), VOTE 96 – (Luapula Province – K70,266,728), VOTE 97 – (North-Western Province – K72,498,449) and VOTE 98 – (Southern Province – K95,327,161).

(Consideration resumed)

Vote 93/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 93/43 – (Office of the President – Northern Province – Child Affairs Department – K491,376).

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 6003, Activity 023 – Commemoration of Children’s Mark Day – Nil. This year, there was an allocation of K6,000. Why is there no allocation for next year?

The Deputy Minister for Northern Province (Mr Sikazwe): Mr Chairperson, the amount was initially required for the commemoration of Children’s Mark Days. There is no provision in 2015 due to resource constraints.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 93/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.    

Vote 93/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 93/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 93/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/56 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/01 (Office of the President – Western Province – Headquarters – K 6,398,560).

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6002, Activity 010 – Labour Day – Nil. I have observed that, out of the ten provinces, only the Western Province has not been allocated funds for Labour Day celebrations in 2015. What could have caused this?

The Deputy Minister for Western Province (Mr Siamunene): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6002, Activity 010 – Labour Day – Nil, this provision is now centralised and has been re-aligned to the mandated department, that is, the Labour and Factories Department. This has been done to avoid making thin provisions and to allow a committee in that department to effectively and efficiently manage the event.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Miyutu, do you still want to ask a follow up question?

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I am not satisfied with that answer because this item is appearing independently in all the provinces, except the Western Province. Why is it different for the Western Province?

The Chairperson: I think that he has given the answer. The provision has been made under another Vote.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6036, Activity 017 – Fish Restocking of Small Water Bodies – Nil. This year, K80,000 was allocated to this item, but there is no funding for it next year. A lack of fish restocking has led to our having the fish ban every year. Why is there no funding?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6036, Activity 017 – Fish Restocking of Small Water Bodies – Nil, a provision has been made for training in fish farming under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, which is closely related to the activity the hon. Member has asked about.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 94/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimater.

VOTE 94/02 (Office of the President – Western Province – Zambia News and Information Services – K3,279,468). 

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6026, Activity 009 – Cameras and Video Editing Software – Nil. This year, there was an allocation of K100,000 and,  with the creation of new districts, I expected this item to be funded next year. Why is there no funding?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6026, Activity 009 – Cameras and Video Editing Software – Nil, the funding has not been provided because the equipment was acquired in the last budget. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 94/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/03 (Office of the President – Western Province – Rural Roads – K19,467,302).

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6012, Activity 050 – Quarterly Meeting and HIV/AIDS Awareness – Nil. This year, K10,000 was allocated for this very important activity. Why is there no funding for it next year?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6012, Activity 050 – Quarterly Meeting and HIV/AIDS Awareness – Nil, the provision for this activity has been re-aligned to Programme 6012, under Vote 94/01 for effective and efficient implementation of the activity by the committee.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Hon. Sianga, do you want to ask a follow-up question?

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 6072, Activity 001 – Access Road Clearing and Vegetation Control – Nil. This year, K850,000 was allocated to this activity, but there is no funding for it next year. However, we need this activity.

The Chairperson: Order!

There are a number of activities that have been funded this year, but not next year. Therefore, you do not have to ask about all such activities. It is clear that most of these provisions have been moved to other functions. However, if you want us to discuss every line that has been re-aligned, so be it.

Hon. Minister, you may answer the question.

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6072, Activity 001 – Access Road Clearing and Vegetation Control – Nil, the activity has not been funded so as to allow for the procurement of earth-moving equipment.

I thank you, Sir. 

The Chairperson: You say that you have not provided for the activity so as to allow for the procurement of earth-moving equipment. What does that mean? 

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, we have not provided for it under that programme because there is another programme under which we will procure earth-moving equipment that will do the job. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Chairperson, what is this equipment for vegetation control?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, this earth-moving equipment is required for cleaning the sides of the road. We need that equipment for that purpose. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 94/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 94/09 – (Office of President – Western Province – Buildings Department – K4,493,417). 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 1706, Head 94/09, Programme 6072, Activity 085 – Construction of Mourners Shelter – K50,000. Where will this shelter be constructed? 

The Chairperson: Just to guide the House. When we are on a particular Head, it is better not to mention it because that is repetitive. Just mention the page and programme because we already know the Head with which we are dealing. 

Hon. Minister, you may respond. 

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, Programme 6072, Activity 085 – Construction of Mourners Shelter – K50,000, is a one-off activity meant for Mulobezi.

Vote 94/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 94/16 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Forestry Department – K5,814,321). 

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6023, Activity 022 – Forestry Maintenance – Lukulu – K10,000, Activity 039 – Forestry Maintenance – Mongu – K10,000, Activity 040 – Forestry Maintenance – Kaoma – K 10,000, Activity 050 – Forestry Maintenance – Senanga – K10,000, Activity 051 – Forestry Maintenance – Sesheke – K10,000, Activity 052 – Forestry Maintenance – Kalabo – K10,000, Activity 053 – Forestry Maintenance – Mulobezi – K10,000, Activity 073 – Forestry Maintenance – Mwandi – K10,000, Activity 074 – Forestry Maintenance – Sikongo – K10,000, Activity 074 – Forestry Maintenance – Limulunga – K10,000, Activity 076 – Forestry Maintenance – Nalolo – K10,000, Activity 077 – Forestry Maintenance – Nkeyema – K10,000, Activity 078 – Forestry Maintenance – Sioma – K 10,000, Activity 079 – Forestry Management – Luampa – K10,000 and Activity 080 – Forestry Maintenance – Mitete – K10,000. 

Mr Chairperson, the funding for this activity in 2014 was flat at K10,000 and the same amount has been maintained across the board for 2015. If this Yellow Book (waving the Yellow Book in the air) was selling for K250 in 2014, but is now K300 in 2015, why should the allocations to these activities not increase, too?  

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6023, Activity 022 – Forestry Maintenance – Lukulu – K10,000, Activity 039 – Forestry Maintenance – Mongu – K10,000, Activity 040 –Forestry Maintenance – Kaoma – K10,000, Activity 050 – Forestry Maintenance – Senanga – K10,000, Activity 051 – Forestry Maintenance – Sesheke – K10,000, Activity 052 – Forestry Maintenance – Kalabo – K10,000, Activity 053 – Forestry Maintenance – Mulobezi – K10,000, Activity 073 – Forestry Maintenance – Mwandi – K10,000, Activity 074 – Forestry Maintenance – Sikongo – K10,000, Activity 074 – Forestry Maintenance – Limulunga – K10,000, Activity 076 – Forestry Maintenance – Nalolo – K10,000, Activity 077 – Forestry Maintenance – Nkeyema – K10,000, Activity 078 – Forestry Maintenance – Sioma – K 10,000, Activity 079 – Forestry Management – Luampa – K10,000 and Activity 080 – Forestry Maintenance – Mitete – K10,000, the allocations to these activities remain the same and were determined by the ceiling. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 94/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 94/23 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Labour and Factories Department – K1,778,116). 

Mr Antonio: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6039, Activity 006 – Services and Repairs – K9,000, and Activity 009 – Transport Management – K23,000. Why is there a reduction in both allocations? 

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6039, Activity 006 – Services and Repairs – K9,000, and Activity 009 – Transport Management – K23,000, the reduction is due to the re-alignment of funds within the department to Programme 6022, Activity 003 – Labour Inspections – K96,342, which is the core mandate of the department.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6022, Activity 006 – Industrial Collective Dispute Resolution – Nil, Activity 008 – Sensitisation and Monitoring of Labour Laws – Nil, and Activity 009 – Child Labour Inspections – Nil. In 2014, the three activities were allocated K5,580, K12,760 and K6,760, respectively. Why is there no funding for 2015? 

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6022, Activity 006 – Industrial Collective Dispute Resolution – Nil, Activity 008 – Sensitisation and Monitoring of Labour Laws – Nil, and Activity 009 – Child Labour Inspections – Nil, the provision has been re-aligned to labour inspections so as to facilitate the effective enforcement of the laws. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 94/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 94/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/40 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Community Development Department – K7,431,388). 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6019, Activity 025 – Formation of Literacy Classes – Nil. Why has this activity not been funded in 2015.

The Chairperson: What Programme is it, Hon. Miyutu?

Mr Miyutu: Programme 6019, Activity 025 – Formation of Literacy Classes.

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, Programme 6019, Activity 025 – Formation of Literacy Classes – Nil, this activity has been left for the line ministry to undertake.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6019, Activity 045 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mitete) – K12,500, Activity 046 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mulobezi) – K12,500, Activity 048 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mwandi) – K12,500, Activity 050 – Support to Women’s Groups (Sikongo) – K12,500, Activity 052 – Support to Women’s Groups (Limulunga) – K12,500, Activity 054 – Support to Women’s Groups (Nalolo) – K12,500, Activity 055 – Support to Women’s Groups (Nkeyema) – K12,500, Activity 056 – Support to Women’s Groups (Sioma) – K12,500, Activity 057 – Support to Women’s Groups (Luampa) – K12,500 and Activity 058 – Support to Self-Help Projects – K50,000. Why has the funding been the same for both new and old districts?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6019, Activity 045 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mitete) – K12,500, Activity 046 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mulobezi) – K12,500, Activity 048 – Support to Women’s Groups (Mwandi) – K12,500, Activity 050 – Support to Women’s Groups (Sikongo) – K12,500, Activity 052 – Support to Women’s Groups (Limulunga) – K12,500, Activity 054 – Support to Women’s Groups (Nalolo) – K12,500, Activity 055 – Support to Women’s Groups (Nkeyema) – K12,500, Activity 056 – Support to Women’s Groups (Sioma) – K12,500, Activity 057 – Support to Women’s Groups (Luampa) – K12,500 and Activity 058 – Support to Self Help Projects – K50,000, we are guided by the ceiling.

Mr Mwaliteta: Yes.

Mr Siamunene: We will undertake this activity in all the districts. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 94/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/44 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Provincial Local Government Office – K1,022,725).

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6008, Activity 004 – Inspection Audits – K49,200. This year, the allocation to this activity was K113,850. Does the big reduction in the 2015 allocation mean that crime has reduced in the Western Province?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6008, Activity 004 – Inspection Audits – K49,200, the decrease in the provision is due to the re-alignment of funds to Activity 26 – Monitoring Local Councils, in the same Programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 94/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr Munkombwe sat near Mr Sianga.

Sianga: Sir, the hon. Provincial Minister is disturbing me.

The Chairperson: Pardon?

Mr Sianga: The hon. Provincial Minister is disturbing me.

The Chairperson: So what do you want me to do? 

Please, hon. Minister, …

Mr Sianga: Let him go back to his seat.

The Chairperson: … do not disturb him. 

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: The longer you sit the more our business will be delayed. I was about to put the question. Did you want to say something, Hon. Sianga? 

Mr Sianga: I just want him to go back to his seat.

Mr Mwaliteta: No, he can sit anywhere.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: It is true, hon. Minister. Leave him to be free, as your presence there is making him uncomfortable. Can you go back to your seat.

Mr Munkombwe: I am talking to this one (pointing at Hon. Antonio).

The Chairperson: No, go back to your seat.

Mr Munkombwe returned to his seat.

Vote 94/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/49 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Provincial Planning Unit – K935,480).

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Head 94/49 …

The Chairperson: We already know the Head, just go to the Programme.

Mr Sianga: ... Programme 6002, Activity 011 – PDCC Meetings – Nil. The allocation for 2013 was K130,000, the one for this year is K52,000, but there is totally nothing for next year. Does this mean that the programme will be scrapped off next year?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6002, Activity 011 – PDCC Meetings – Nil, this Activity has been provided for under Programme 2024 – Development Planning and Monitoring under the same department.

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 94/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/52 – (Office of the President – Western Province – District Administration – K15,487,910).

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6072, Activity 568 – Street Lighting – Airport to Boma (Kalabo) – K100,000. Knowing the distance from the Boma to the airport, is the allocation really meant to complete the programme when the same amount could not do so this year?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6072, Activity 568 – Street Lighting – Airport to Boma (Kalabo) – K100,000, the provision is meant for the installation of street lights in Kalabo from the Airport to the town centre.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 94/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/54 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Marine and Inland Waterways – Department – K138,007).

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6072, Activity 032 – Dredging of Canals – Nil, and Activity 072 – Purchase of Boats – Nil. These activities were allocated K1,000,000 and K200,000, respectively, in 2014. Why have they not been funded in 2015?

Mr Siamunene: Mr Chairperson, Programme 6072, Activity 032 – Dredging of Canals – Nil, and Activity 072 – Purchase of Boats – Nil, have already been provided for under the Rural Roads Unity (RRU).

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 94/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/56 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/55ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairperson: Order! 

It seems that the quorum has collapsed. Please, ring the bell.

Business was suspended from 1204 hours until 1205 hours.

VOTE 96/01 – (Office of the President – Luapula Province – Headquarters – K21,458,522).

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6030, Activity 018 – Tourism Infrastructure – Nil. Why is there no provision for this activity in 2015?

The Deputy Minister for Lusaka Province (Brig-Gen. Kapaya): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6030, Activity 018 – Tourism Infrastructure – Nil, the activity has not been budgeted for in 2015 because the funds have been moved to the promotion of tourism activities and other sectors in the province.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 96/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 96/03 – (Office of the President – Luapula Province – Rural Roads Unit – K21,303,808).

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6074, Activity 071 – Rehabilitation of Road in Milenge – K1,270,000. What can I do to access the 2014 allocation for the poor people in Milenge?

Brig-Gen. Kapaya: Mr Chairperson, the year has not yet ended and that programme is still under implementation.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 96/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 97/03 – (Office of the President – North-Western Province – Rural Roads Department – K18,275,811).

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6075, Activity 104 – Chikongwelo-Kayombo Road – Nil. This year, K1,019,813 was allocated for the rehabilitation of the road but, for next year, no allocation has been made. The issue is that the construction of the road has not been completed. So, was the money allocated for its construction this year released? If it was released, when will it be used to complete the road? If not, …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: … how will the road be completed without any allocation?

The Deputy Minister for the North-Western Province (Mr Mubukwanu): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6075, Activity 104 – Chikongwelo-Kayombo Road – Nil, the budget for the Chikongwelo/Kayombo Road for this year was for specific scopes of work, which we have sufficiently covered. That is why there is no allocation for next year. If there will be a need for funding in future, it will be provided for.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, according to the plan that was provided by Government, the road was supposed to have been completed by now. Unfortunately, it has not. So, there is no scope. Will the Government ever complete that road?

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, the year has not yet ended. Like I have already said, we were carrying out some maintenance works on some sections of the road and have completed that task.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 97//03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 97/40 – (Office of the President – North-Western Province – Community Development Department – K3,380,684).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6019, Activity 006 – Women Development – K10,500. There is a two-thirds reduction in the allocation to this activity, from this year’s K35,500 to next year’s K10,500. What is the reason for this? Further, how many women will the department empower with this meagre amount when the complaints have been …

The Chairperson: Why is there a reduction, hon. Minister?

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6019, Activity 006 – Women Development – K10,500, the reduction is in line with the re-alignment of resources to other activities that were deemed more necessary.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, given this meagre amount, does the hon. Minister hope to actually meet the objective for which this line has been provided?

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, what determines the scope of our programmes are the available resources. So, we can only do so much at any given time.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 97/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 97/41 – (Office of the President – North-Western Province – Youth Development Department – K926,274).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 6034, Activity 002 – Youth Training and Empowerment – K18,000. There is a drastic reduction in this allocation, from this year’s K64,300. Given this fact and the fact that empowerment is the cradle of the Patriotic Front (PF), how does the hon. Minister hope to empower the youths of the North-Western Province?

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, we are not debating. So, please, ask questions.

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6034, Activity 002 – Youth Training and Empowerment – K18,000, the amount is not the only resource available for the youths of the North-Western Province. You are aware that this House passed some allocations under the Ministry of Youth and Sport, which has adequate resources to cater for such activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 97/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote97/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 97/52 – (Office of the President – North-Western Province – District Administration – K10,553,774).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 1850, Programme 6001 – Activity 049 – Office Administration – Kabompo – K35,827, Activity 058 – Office Administration – Solwezi – K46,945, Activity 062 – Office Administration – Kasempa – K41,316, Activity 068 – Office Administration – Mufumbwe – K22,431, Activity 076 – Office Administration – Zambezi – K27,497, Activity 080 – Office Administration – Chavuma – K24,681, Activity 088 – Office Administration – Mwinilunga – K26,317, Activity 093 – Office Administration – Ikeleng’i – K33,323, Activity 098 – Payment of Utilities – Zambezi – K12,537, Activity 102 – Payment of Utilities – Kabompo – K13,746, Activity 105 – Payment of Utilities – Mufumbwe – K12,537, Activity 107 – Payment of Utilities – Kasempa – K12,537, Activity 110 – Payment of Utilities – Solwezi – K11,750, Activity 112 – Payment of Utilities -  Mwinilunga – K12,537, Activity 114 – Payment of Utilities – Ikeleng’i – K13,746, Activity 116 – Payment of Utilities – Chavuma – K13,438, Activity 367 – Office Administration – Manyinga – K38,245 and Activity 370 – Manyinga – K12,537. 

Sir, the allocations to activities under this Programme are the same as those for last year. With regard to the tariffs for utilities, such as electricity and water, we all know that they have gone up. Therefore, there should have been an increase in next year’s allocation. Why have the figures been kept constant?

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, on Page 1850, Programme 6001 – Activity 049 – Office Administration – Kabompo – K35,827, Activity 058 – Office Administration – Solwezi – K46,945, Activity 062 – Office Administration – Kasempa – K41,316, Activity 068 – Office Administration – Mufumbwe – K22,431, Activity 076 – Office Administration – Zambezi – K27,497, Activity 080 – Office Administration – Chavuma – K24,681, Activity 088 – Office Administration – Mwinilunga – K26,317, Activity 093 – Office Administration – Ikeleng’i – K33,323, Activity 098 – Payment of Utilities – Zambezi – K12,537, Activity 102 – Payment of Utilities – Kabompo – K13,746, Activity 105 – Payment of Utilities – Mufumbwe – K12,537, Activity 107 – Payment of Utilities – Kasempa – K12,537, Activity 110 – Payment of Utilities – Solwezi – K11,750, Activity 112 – Payment of Utilities -  Mwinilunga – K12,537, Activity 114 – Payment of Utilities – Ikeleng’i – K13,746, Activity 116 – Payment of Utilities – Chavuma – K13,438, Activity 367 – Office Administration – Manyinga – K38,245 and Activity 370 – Manyinga – K12,537, the only answer I can give is that we could not go beyond the ceiling. However, we are mindful that some service providers have introduced pre-paid services. So, the consumption will be kept within those amounts.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on the right!

When I say, “Order!”, it is because I am reading figures. So, when I hear you talking, I get disturbed.

Vote 97/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/58 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 98/02 – (Office of the President – Southern Province – Zambia News and Information Services Department – K3,827,305).

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1858, Programme 6002, Activity 019 – Traditional Ceremonies – Nil. In the 2014 Budget, K4,800 was allocated to this activity, but there is no allocation in the 2015 Budget. Will there not be ceremonies next year?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, Programme 6002, Activity 019 – Traditional Ceremonies – Nil, has been fused into Programme 6026.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 98/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 98/03 − (Office of the President – Southern Province – Rural Roads Department – K21,114,514). 

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 1860, Programme 6007 – Dismantling of ‘Allears’ ...

Interruptions 

Mr Sianga: Whatever.

The Chairperson: It is ‘arrears.’

Mr Sianga: Arrears, yes.

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: No, let us not waste time.

Mr Sianga: Sir, I am looking at Activity 002 – Personnel Related Arrears – K423,486. In 2014, the allocation to this activity was K17,423. What has led to this big increment of almost 100 per cent for ‘allears?’

The Chairperson: I can hear that there is still some mother tongue interference. 

The Deputy Minister for Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 6007, Activity 002 – Personnel Related Arrears – K423,486, the increment has been necessitated by the need to clear the outstanding arrears for workers.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

I will stop. If you want to talk, maybe, I should hold on. 

Vote 98/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 98/04 − (Office of the President – Southern Province – Chiefs and Traditional Affairs – K200,000).

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek an explanation on Page 1862. All the programmes under this department did not have any funding this year, but the department has been allocated K200,000 for 2015. Are these new programmes?

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, yes, they are new programmes.

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 98/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

(Debate adjourned)

_________  

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1246 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014.

_______

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

AMBULANCE FOR KANYEMBO HEALTH CENTRE

288. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Health when an ambulance would be provided to Kanyembo Rural Health Centre to service the southern part of Nchelenge District.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to provide ambulances to rural health centres like Kanyembo. The policy of the Government is that ambulances are distributed to district medical offices, not rural health centres. The district ambulance is intended to service all the health centres in the district.

Sir, the Government has already provided Nchelenge District with two ambulances, namely, one advanced life support ambulance, which is at St Paul’s Mission Hospital, a second-level hospital, and another, a basic life support ambulance, which is at Nchelenge District Community Medical Office. The second ambulance is intended to service the entire district.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.