DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 25th February, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM
    
PRAYER
_______ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
2014 GRADE 12 SCHOOL CERTIFICATE EXAMINATION RESULTS 

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a Ministerial Statement on the Grade 12 School Certificate Examination results for 2014. 

Mr Speaker, before I proceed, allow me to congratulate His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for winning the last election. What was so significant about the last election was that everybody was a winner except that others came in second, third and fourth position, and so on.

I would also like to thank the President for giving me an opportunity to head the most challenging ministry in the country, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. Though a challenge, I find it quite illuminating. 

Sir, I wish to inform the House that the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ), in conjunction with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, completed the processing of 2014 Grade 12 School Certificate Examination results on 3rd February, 2015. 

Mr Speaker, the details and performance of the candidates that sat for the examinations are as follows: A total of 122,056 candidates entered for the examinations, out of which 54,236 were female and 67,823 were male. This represents an increase of 14.1 per cent on the 106,956 candidates that entered for the same examinations in 2013. Out of the 122,056 candidates, a total of 119,862 sat for the examinations, of which 53,173 were girls and 66,689 were boys. This represents an increase of 14.4 per cent on the 104,809 candidates who sat for the 2013 Examinations. 

Mr Speaker, a total of 2,197 candidates were absent from the examinations representing a marginal decrease in the absenteeism rate from 2 per cent in 2013, to 1.8 per cent last year. While a higher proportion of girls at 18.07 per cent than boys at 11. 17 per cent were absent from the examinations, in real terms, there were more boys than girls absent. 

However, it is gratifying to note that the all provinces recorded a decline in absenteeism, with the exception of Muchinga and Luapula provinces.  

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, let me highlight the performance of candidates that sat for the examinations. 

In terms of general performance, the proportion of candidates obtaining school certificates for the 2014 Examination session decreased from 60.21 per cent in 2013, to 55.87 per cent last year. Gender wise, there was 58.47 per cent representing 38,992 boys and 52.62 per cent representing 27,979 girls that obtained school certificates. 

Mr Speaker, the statistics at provincial level are as follows: Four provinces namely; Luapula, the Southern, the Eastern and Central provinces recorded an improvement in the proportion of candidates obtaining school certificates, while the other six provinces recorded a reduction. Copperbelt Province recorded a sharp decrease in the proportion of candidates obtaining school certificates from 60.2 per cent in 2013, to 43.9 per cent in 2014. 

Sir, this decline in the proportion of candidates obtaining school certificates, especially in Copperbelt Province, is a matter of great concern. I will not allow this to continue, and have since instructed my standards officers …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu:… to investigate the factors behind this disparity so that measures can be taken to address the problem. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu:  Mr Speaker, in terms of performance per category of schools, the results showed that grant-aided schools performed better followed by private schools. In the third position were Government schools and lastly community schools with the least performance. 

In terms of gender, girls in grant-aided schools had the best performance followed by boys. The least performance was recorded by females in community schools. I commend the leaders of grant-aided and private schools for producing good results. I also urge leaders in Government and community schools to learn the best practice from their colleagues in grant-aided and private schools. 

Mr Speaker, I now wish to address the scourge of examination malpractice. Let me emphasise that although there were reported cases at this level during the 2014 Examinations, the examinations were leakage free. 108 suspected cases were reported in 2014 compared to 450 cases in 2013. These cases mainly involved assistance and collusion.

Sir, I hereby direct the ECZ to follow up all cases of assistance and collusion so that the perpetrators of examination malpractice are brought to book. In the same vein, I direct all the Provincial Education Officers (PEO), District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) and head teachers to administratively discipline personnel in the ministry who will be implicated in any form of examination malpractice. 

Mr Speaker, in an effort to effectively and efficiently conduct the Ordinary Level Examinations (‘O’ Level Examinations) in the country, the ECZ has delinked the Grade 12 School Certificate Examinations from the General Certificate of Education (GCE) Examinations effective this year. The October/November Grade 12 internal examinations will be strictly for regular school-going candidates while the external GCE will be for open and distance learning and out-of-school candidates.

Sir, the House should note that while the School Certificate Examinations will continue to be conducted in October/November, the GCE will run in August each year. There will be no restriction to the number of subjects that a GCE candidate can enter. This means that a GC candidate …

Mr Muntanga: GCE!

Dr Kaingu: A GC …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter 

Dr Kaingu: GCE candidates can enter for as many subjects as they wish.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: It is an opportunity for you, Hon. Muntanga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Laughter  

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, in closing, I wish to thank you and all the hon. Members for listening to me and giving this ministry support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. 

Interruptions 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I listened carefully but I did not hear anything about the performance of the Western Province. Although I suspect that, as usual, the performance must have been bad. One of the reasons for this is the lack of teachers from primary all the way up to secondary school level. 

Sir, when will you ensure that there are enough teachers in Liuwa instead of having children teach themselves?

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the Western Province was among the six provinces which performed poorly. To answer the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa, this Government is …

Mr Muchima: Which one?

Laughter 

Dr Kaingu: This Patriotic Front (PF) Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Hon. Government Member: Repeat!

Mr Speaker: I thought that was obvious.

Laughter 

Mr Mushanga: Hammer!

Dr Kaingu: The Government of His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and my ministry …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: …will this year recruit 5,000 teachers and I am sure that Liuwa will be one of the beneficiaries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: Imwe, nichani kansi imwe?

Mr Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, why is it that students from certain secondary schools who sat for the English examination at Grade 12 level have missing results on their statements of results? 

Mr Mucheleka interjected.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member had listened to my statement …

Mr Mucheleka: Ah!

Dr Kaingu: … he would have noticed that it was very comprehensive. I did not indicate any missing subjects. The ECZ has done a good job and as far as we are concerned, we do not have any missing results. However, if the hon. Member has a case that he wants us to deal with then he is free to approach me now or later at my office.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka interjected.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, it is very clear from the results of the Grade 12 school leavers that the quality of education is lamentably on the decline in the country.

Ms Imenda: Very much.

Prof. Lungwangwa: This is a threat to our human capital development. Can the hon. Minister indicate what policy strategies he is going to put in place to remedy this catastrophe for the nation. 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, before I come to what our policy strategies will be, let me inform the hon. Member that the reason the results are poor may not necessarily be due to the falling standards. Suffice to say that quality indicators are on the decrease. The learner to teacher ratio and the learner to book ratio is very high. We, as a country, have left management out of our curriculum. It is not true that because someone is a Professor then he would also make a good manager. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we will focus our interest on training people how to manage schools and institutions. It is not true that if you have a PhD in law, then you can be a dean in the School of Law without studying management. This should be the area that we must concentrate on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I am still allowing questions on points of clarification. Please, indicate if you want to ask a question. 

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I agree with the last point the hon. Minister made. He mentioned that cases of malpractice in the last examinations were almost negligible, but the performance was bad. The hon. Minister will recall that last year, there was nearly a riot by some pupils because of leakage thwarting that was put in place. Are you not relating this bad performance to the fact that leakage loopholes were sealed?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is true that because we managed to curb the scourge of examination malpractice, our pass mark went down from 60.2 per cent to about 55 per cent. It is very surprising that students on the Copperbelt, where the pass mark went down from 60.2 per cent to 43.9 per cent rioted when the examination papers were introduced. It was like they knew what examination was supposed to come.  

Mr Kambwili laughed.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want to commend the ECZ and my ministry for following up these cases. We shall not allow students or learners to proceed to the next stage through collusion or simply cheating, for lack of a better term.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga indicated.

Mr Speaker: I indicated the order of response earlier on.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, you said that …

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this serious point of order. Pursuant to the passing of the new Minerals Royalty Act on the Floor of this House, there have been a number of statements that have been made by my colleagues on your right, including His Excellency the President, Edgar Chagwa Lungu. 

Mr Speaker, as a result of passing of this particular legislation, mining houses have raised concerns which pertain to the viability of a number of these mining houses. I am aware that Lumwana Mine is one of those mining houses that have expressed concern about this particular legislation. As a result of this, they have decided to place their mining activities and the mine under care and maintenance. This is contained in a statement issued today as reflected in The Post Newspaper, 25th February, 2015, which reads: 
“Lumwana to decide on future by end of March.” 

Sir, I also want to refer to the statement made by the President where he indicated that Government will not allow a single mining job to be lost. 

Mr Speaker, I am also aware that the new Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry made a statement at the Indaba in Cape Town where she stated that the Government will defer the payment of the new Minerals Royalty Tax that was due. In reaction to that, the Minister of Finance, Hon. Alexander Chikwanda, in his statement, said that the new mining tax was final and will not be revisited. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we are all aware that mining is the backbone of this economy. Anything that is seen to jeopardise the operations of the mines needs to be addressed urgently. As a result of this uncertainty, the workers at Lumwana Mine went on a go-slow requesting the Government to make a clear statement as to how it will protect jobs in the mining industry.

Sir, we are also aware that on the Copperbelt, there is mining house that intends to reduce the workforce from 16,000 to 4,000 workers as a result of this particular legislation. The question, then, is whether the Government is in order to remain silent pertaining to the effects of the legislation we passed on the mining industry.

Sir, we want to know what measures the Government is going to put in place to ensure that our workers in Copperbelt and the North-Western provinces are protected. What actions are they going to take considering the statements that were made concerning this Minerals Royalty Tax and to ensure that the Budget is not affected?

Mr Speaker, are they in order not to come to this House to inform us about this serious issue that affects the lifeline of this country? Are they not aware of the previous ruling that any statement made outside this House is a rumour unless it is made on the Floor of this House? I would like to find out from you whether they are in order to keep quiet without urgently coming to seek your permission to make a ministerial statement on this serious issue?

 I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimbu laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that permission was sought from me and a ministerial statement is scheduled to be issued either tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Sir, the hon. Minister mentioned that pupils from grant-aided and private schools are doing far much better than those from community and government schools. In Mitete and possibly Mwandi, there are no private or grant-aided schools, …

Mr Lufuma: We only have community and government.

Mr Mutelo: … we only have community and government schools which have no teachers and dilapidated infrastructure. Since the Government, through the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ), sets the examinations, what measures does it intend to put in place to ensure that pupils from these schools can do better than those from the private and grant-aided schools in 2016?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, listening to the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West, one would think that he comes from Beirut and not from Zambia.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, this hardworking Government …

Mr Livune: Question!

Dr Kaingu: … of the PF …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! Order!

Dr Kaingu: I have found out that, actually, it is a very hardworking Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Dr Kaingu: Sir, the Government is working very hard to improve the infrastructure in all the schools, including those in Mitete. The hon. Member for Mitete has in the past posed several questions to this ministry and …

Mr Nkombo: Hon. Member for Mitete?

Dr Kaingu: Lukulu West.

Mr Speaker, soon he will know what this Government is doing to improve the infrastructure in all the schools, …

Mr Mtolo: Question!

Dr Kaingu: … including upgrading basic schools into secondary schools.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: So, as we gravitate towards 2016, you will have very little to say because we are bringing in …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! Order!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that this Government is investing and re-investing in school infrastructure.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his attempt to answer one of the questions stated that the standards were not necessarily falling, he went on to hastily say that the teacher to pupil ratio and the pupil to book was not ideal. Is this not an indication of falling standards?

Dr Kaingu: Sir, if that will satisfy the hon. Member of Parliament, yes it is an indication of falling standards.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: As I stated in my response to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s question, there are many factors that are bringing down the standards of education in the country. I tried to itemise some of them but they are actually many. I know that some of the hon. Members are aware that the learning environment in some schools is not conducive for learners. It is not only in schools, but even in our own homes. If the home is crowded, the child might find it difficult to concentrate on his/her studies. In some homes, you find that a sitting room may also be used as a bedroom and if there is a learner in such a home, and a dignified visitor comes to visit, the learner might be asked to sleep in the kitchen …

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Kaingu: … or even in the veranda and so you can imagine how this learner can study during the examinations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I will take the last questions from the following hon. Members for Chadiza, Kalomo Central, Kaoma Central, MazabukaCentral and Katombola. 

May the hon. Member for Chadiza, ask his question.

Hon. Opposition Members: He is not here!

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, ask his question.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister who has taken over the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education stated that even if you are a professor or doctor, you have to learn management. He has taken over from a doctor in education and he indicated that there are falling standards in the education sector. He once tore the Speech of the President …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … which had some policies on education. Therefore, I would like to find out from him the policy he will come up with to ensure that children do not fail especially that his doctorate is not in education but in something else?
Mr Speaker: Order!

Before the hon. Minister responds, it is a well-established convention that we do not debate ourselves. The earlier response, as I understood it, was very clear. He indicated that it is not enough for a person to have an academic qualification and to subsequently be entrusted with the task of managing an education institution. That was the issue. He even gave a very specific example that if you have a PhD in Law, it does not necessarily qualify you to run a law school. Implicitly, in that response was that you probably need managerial skills as well. So, I will be very slow to allow this discourse to get to a point where we now start debating individual qualifications of the minister because that is not the issue. Therefore, hon. Minister as you respond, bear in mind my direction.

 Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, you have carefully guided us. Therefore, I will not go that way. 

Sir, our education system has been too academic. Although my degree is not in education, I think…

 Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister that is the same area I was referring to.  

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Please, do not respond to the bait.

Dr Kaingu: Sir, we seriously need a transformation in our education system. We do not seem to have a situation where the learners are responding to the requirements of the industries. There seems to be a mismatch between what is taught and what the industries want. That is what I have found out. I will, therefore, invite professors like the one seated over there…

Dr Kaingu pointed at Professor Lungwangwa.

Dr Kaingu: … and many others to help us transform our education system from being basically cognitive to vocational and entrepreneurship orientation as well. That is the direction I would want to take in terms of policies. I will also engage the Vice-Chancellors of public and private universities as well as the Chief Executive Officers of industries which we think are performing very well in Zambia so that we can find out why our graduates cannot be utilised by their industries. We would also want to find out why our students are failing to actualise themselves. Why should they wait to be employed? These are the areas that I will focus on.    
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the Western Province is among the provinces that performed poorly. The hon. Minister said that the Government is going to recruit 5,000 teachers this year. May I know how many are going to the Western Province to improve on the poor performance of the students.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker that is a good question, but we have permanent secretaries in our ministries and that is their work. It is not the work of the minister to appropriate or share teachers. When that time comes, the capable hands of the Permanent Secretary will prevail.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central):  Sir, before I ask a ….

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

 Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this time to raise this important point of order.

 Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to answer the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central which sought to know the number of teachers who will be posted to his constituency out of the 5,000? Instead of answering the question, he referred to the permanent secretaries as the ones responsible for the distribution and allocation of teachers. Is the hon. Minister in order not to respond accordingly, yet he is the one who answers questions on the Floor of this House and not the Permanent Secretary?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is perfectly in order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister indicated that this is an administrative task and not a policy issue. Therefore, at an appropriate time that task will be performed by the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) in the ministry who is the Permanent Secretary.

 In terms of accountability, nothing stops you as hon. Member of Parliament from following up this matter further the moment the recruitment is done. You can seek information from your colleagues on how those recruits will be distributed across the country. I do not see anything controversial here because the recruitment has not even been undertaken yet, it is a plan. People have to respond to this plan. I do not think that we should have a controversy.

Hon. Member for Mazabuka, please continue. 

Mr Nkombo: In asking the question to the hon. Minister which I suspect may be of help, as we go forward, the conventions of this House do permit that when something goes wrong on the Floor of this House, it ought to be corrected. 

Sir, I seriously seek your indulgence that before I ask the hon. Minister, allow me to contrite before you and the whole country. During the last meeting, I let myself down whilst on the Floor of this House and also…

Mr Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Member, please, sit down.

We are now asking questions of clarifications on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and that is what I expect you to confine yourself to.

 Mr Nkombo: Having observed the imbalance between the performance of granted-aided institutions, government and community schools because of many variables including living conditions between rural and urban settings, when do you think you will come up with a Marshal Plan on how to reduce these disadvantages earlier described, in order for them to get better results going into the future?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I think that it is very important for the House to realise that the amount of money that we appropriate to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is not adequate. I do not blame the House or the Ministry of Finance because that is what the resource envelope can appropriate. 

Mr Speaker, my plea to my colleagues in the House is to work very hard as employers so that the economic ratio of this country can go up. This will allow for adequate money to be appropriated to this ministry. I know that there can never be adequate resources for everything, but at the moment the money that hon. Members appropriate to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is not sufficient. As long as we do not grow the economy of this country, the status quo will prevail.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, one of the reasons attributed to the …

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I rarely stand on points of order but this is very important. Is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order, to mislead this House by stating that he intends to invite professors like my colleague here (pointing at Prof. Lungwangwa) to bring in new innovation in entrepreneurship and vocational training, when his predecessor once explained how the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was now operating a new education curriculum?

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Laughter

Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo: This new curriculum has two streams after Grade 7. One stream is for vocational training while the other is for academic learning. Therefore, is the hon. Minister in order to ignore what his predecessor put in place and is applicable now? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Well, as I understood the response by the hon. Minister, he was simply saying that he seeks to interrogate the education system. In so doing, he will engage many stakeholders. For purposes of exemplification, he just singled out leading educationists such as the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalikwanda. That is what he merely said. 

I do not think he went as far as relating that approach to the existing system with regard to the education curriculum. That is a detail which I never heard him pronounce on the Floor of the House. So, to that extent, like any other minister, he is at liberty to indicate to the House a broad policy direction or strategies that he would like to adopt as he heads the ministry. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I was saying that one of the established reasons for the high rate of examination failures, especially in rural areas, is because too many community schools have not been gazetted and included on the Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC) System. This has created a situation where we have a serious lack of teachers and unmotivated people. 

Further, most of the people that teach in community schools do not have the required qualifications of a teacher. Normally they are Grade 9 school leavers who have an interest in teaching in these community schools. What is the hon. Minister going to do to quicken the process of gazetting community schools that have not been gazetted for a long time, as well as including them on the PMEC System so that they can have proper structures that befit the education system in Zambia?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, our philosophy of humanism has caused us problems. When we visit communities and we find community schools which are not conducive for learning, what we are supposed to do as a ministry is to close them down. However, we allow such schools to continue operating because of our philosophy.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member must know that the Government has plans to build schools and upgrade community schools. We will not upgrade every mushrooming community school and put it on government programmes when this House is not appropriating adequate money to the ministry. We can only work within the resources that are provided to us. The hon. Member is a representative of his people and if he thinks that the community schools operating in his area are not conducive for learning, my humble request to him is to close them up since the Government cannot do so.

Laughter 

Dr Kaingu: I want the hon. Member to also know that the situation in the country is that we have crowded classrooms.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Dr Kaingu: Where there are supposed to be forty learners you find eighty pupils. This is all because of the philosophy and principle of humanism. We cannot go to such schools and tell them to reduce the number of pupils in each classroom to only forty. We go further to admit more children to these schools disadvantaging them in the process. We cannot, however, close these schools. The only thing we can do for now is to sympathise with the hon. Member.

Thank you very much, Sir.

Laughter 
_______________
     QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
RECOGNITION OF CHIEF MULILO OF CHAMA DISTRICT

311. Mr Zimba (Chama North) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    when Chief Mulilo of Chama District would be recognised by the Government; and

(b)    what had caused the delay in recognising the chief.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, according to the Government, the status of Mulilo is that of a traditional counsellor. However, the ministry is working on modalities to change his status from traditional counsellorship to that of a chief so that he can also receive formal recognition by the Government.

The minutes of the selection meeting for traditional counsellor Mulilo were directly submitted to the ministry from Chama District instead of being submitted through the provincial administration office for clearance. The ministry had to send the minutes back to Muchinga Provincial Administration for their consideration and clearance. We have since received the minutes for the selection meeting from the provincial office, and currently, the ministry is processing the matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, according to the response of the hon. Minister, I will not talk much on this issue because I may seem argumentative.

Mr Mucheleka: No!

Mr Zimba: However, may I know the actual causes for the delay because this issue has taken more than ten years to address. It has taken that long but I am still being given unconvincing reasons. This puts me in an awkward position. May I know the actual causes which may help me in future.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the delay that we are aware of is of the minutes which were sent from the district and were received at the ministry …

Mr Muchima: For ten years.

Mr Kufuna: Not ten years. We have been in the Government for three years.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Kufuna: We just received those minutes … 

Mr Mucheleka: When did you receive them?

Mr Kufuna: … of the meeting which was held …

Mr Nkombo: Minutes from where?

Mr Kufuna: ... from the district and that was last year in October. They were returned to the province to be cleared.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, can we get assurance from the Government that from now onwards they will not interfere in the selection processes of traditional leaders and that the process will be left to the authorised people so that we avoid what happened to Paramount Chief Henry Kanyanta Sosala of the Bemba people. The matter almost cost the Patriotic Front (PF) an election and has even cost someone not to be appointed to the position of Vice-President.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, we do not interfere in the selection of chiefs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, once beaten …

Hon. UPND Members: Twice shy!

Mr Nkombo: … twice shy. We saw a lot of embarrassment leading towards the election of the President last year in the Northern region as a result of the Government’s adamant refusal to recognise the chief. 

Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North, in his follow-up question indicated that this status quo has been with Chief Mulilo for a period of about ten years. Yet the hon. Minister said that the minutes of the royal establishment or whoever is charged with the responsibility of recognising these chiefs at local level were received recently. I would like to know when these minutes were dated, when they were received by the ministry and how long will it take for this recognition to happen?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, the Deputy Minister did indicate here that we received these minutes in October last year and the process is underway.

Mr Nkombo: Dated when?

Dr Katema: Suffice to tell you that we received these minutes in October.

Mr Speaker, in the first response, the Deputy Minister indicated that according to the Government records, Chief Mulilo was known as a traditional counsellor. It was the royal establishment which had requested that he be recognised as a chief. That could be one of the reasons the process could have taken more time than expected.

Mr Speaker: Are you aware about the date of the minutes?

Dr Katema: No, Mr Speaker.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, what are the steps involved in the recognition of these chiefs?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, chiefs are selected by the royal establishment according to the line of succession and the traditions of that chiefdom. Once the selection has been done, the minutes of the selection meeting are submitted to the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs and then that chief is recognised by way of the Government Gazette.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, first and foremost I would like to congratulate the Paramount Chief of the Bemba people, Paramount Chief Sosala for being recognised by the Government of the Republic of Zambia …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … after a long struggle with our colleagues on your right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Woo!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, through you …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: … I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has now changed the policy pertaining to the recognition of those who were not earlier recognised as chiefs but as traditional counsellors or indunas as is the case in the Western Province and senior headmen in other areas. Is there a change of policy?

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Are they now assuring us, Mr Speaker, that whenever there is a proposal and recommendation for the upgrading of a traditional ruler from counsellor or induna, the Government will recognise them as chiefs as per tradition of that particular tribe. Are they now changing the policy so that all the other tribes can now recommend those who were not recognised as chiefs so that they can now be recognised?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, there is no change in policy direction. Cases are being dealt with as they come because in each scenario there were different circumstances under which the colonial masters did not recognise that chieftainship. So, it depends on whether those scenarios have changed or not. That is why we are taking on cases as they come, taking into consideration the circumstances under which the chieftainship was abolished.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, in view of the hon. Minister’s response that they are waiting for the necessary procedures before they can recognise Chief Mulilo of Chama District, does the  Patriotic Front (PF) Government accept their wrong doing and are now embarrassed and repentant …

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: … that they carried on an argument in futility not to recognise Henry Kanyanta Sosala as the Bemba Paramount Chief. Did it have to take the gallant Hon. Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba (GBM) to resign from the PF Government and the efforts of the gallant Hon. Mucheleka and Members on your left to have His Royal Highness Kanyanta Sosala recognised? 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Mweetwa: Does the PF accept that it was wrong and sees the need to apologise to the people of Zambia for fronting a wrong and flawed argument on the Floor of this House that it would never recognise Henry Kanyanta Sosala unless over the dead body of the then hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs?

Mr Muntanga: She is not dead yet.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Speaker: That is not a supplementary question.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the current policy on recognising chiefs covers the whole country. You are now saying that you will consider circumstances but at the same time that you will not change the policy. With this trial and error that you want to embark on, what conditions will you establish so that all of us will know clearly the terms that make you change from one position to another?
Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central is trying to put words in my mouth. This is a specific question on the status of Chief Mulilo …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: … who was never recognised as a chief and whose chieftainship was abolished long ago by the colonial masters. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Do not engage him whilst you are seated.

Dr Katema: It is not about the recognition of chieftainships which are already recognised by the Government. We are talking about a different scenario altogether.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the issue of …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Muchima.

 Sir,     I have a very serious point of order on the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. The hon. Member for Kalomo Central asked a very clear and succinct question bearing in mind what was said before that Chief Mulilo’s Chiefdom was abolished by the colonial masters. It is on the Floor of this House that a question was posed to Hon. Emerine Kabanshi, as hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, where she read a policy statement about many chiefdoms that were abolished and the only recognised chiefs and boundaries were those that were in the precincts of the 1958 National Map. 
Sir, clearly, the Government has decided to start recognising chiefs. The question the hon. Member of Parliament asked was whether or not you have changed the policy which states that there will be no more recognition of chiefs, if you are going to recognise Chief Mulilo.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you continue responding to various questions, please, shed light on this matter.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the issue of recognition of chiefs has lingered for some time. May I know whether the hon. Minister is extending this gesture, which we have noted in the Northern and Muchinga provinces, to other such as Central and the North-Western provinces considering that they have chiefs who fall in the same category as Chief Mulilo? We would like you to be very clear on this matter.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, it is a known fact that there are 284 chiefs who have been recognised by the Government. Chief Mulilo was, in fact, not a chief …

Laughter

Dr Katema: … but a traditional counsellor. The royal establishment requested his recognition as chief on the grounds that even after the abolition of his status, Mulilo retained all his kapasos …

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by kapasos, hon. Minister?

Laughter

Dr Katema: Sir, Mulilo’s retainers were not withdrawn, the boundaries and the palace were maintained and the instruments of power were not revoked. So, it is quite a different scenario.

Interruptions

Dr Katema: However, the policy direction has not changed. We have not even recognised Chief Mulilo yet. The answer which was given here is that the papers were submitted to the ministry. The process was wrongly commenced because the papers were submitted directly to the ministry from the district. The ministry surrendered the documents back to the province so that they could pass through the provincial headquarters. Now, the ministry has received the documents for consideration.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, my question has been over-taken.

MBALA-KASABA BAY-NSUMBU ROAD

312. Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    whether feasibility studies for tarring the Mbala-Kasaba Bay-Nsumbu Road had been carried out;

(b)    if so, when works on the road would commence;

(c)    what the estimated cost of the project was; and 

(d)    when the construction of the Lufubu Bridge across the Lufubu River on the road at (a) would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, no feasibility studies have been carried out for the tarring of the Mbala-Kasaba Bay-Nsumbu Road.

Mr Speaker, works to upgrade the road will commence after the completion of the feasibility studies and the detailed design, whose funding will be considered for inclusion in the 2016 Budget.

Mr Speaker, the cost for the project will only be determined once a detailed design and assessment is carried out. 

Mr Speaker, it is expected that the construction of the bridge will commence in 2016. The contract for the design of the bridge is expected to be signed in the second quarter of this year after conclusion of the tender process which is currently underway. We also anticipate the tender for the construction works in the first quarter of 2016.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chansa: Mr Speaker, this is the second time I am asking this question.  The last time I asked this question was in 2013.  I want to know exactly when the construction of this road will be carried out. As at now, Kasaba Bay Airport has been abandoned, and yet the Government says that it is carrying out projects intended to open up the northern circuit to tourism. However, if this road will not be constructed within this year, what is the Government’s immediate plan to open the northern circuit without this road, since the construction of Kasaba Bay Airport has been abandoned?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we appreciate that the problem with the bridge is a major constraint on the construction of this road. We also regret the delay in conducting works on the bridge but, as at now, we are comfortable enough to do the designs for the bridge and, thereafter, proceed with the construction of the bridge.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I have had an opportunity to visit Chimbamilonga and this is a very big economic area that the Government and the people of Zambia can earn a lot of money from. Does the Government see this area as many other people and the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) have seen it? 

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, there is no doubt that we are in agreement with the previous Government concerning the economic importance of this area, hence, our desire to proceed with the works which have mentioned.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, why has the Government abandoned the projects which the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) left to open the northern circuit in order to attract tourists?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, while I appreciate that the works were abandoned, I think that we should be happy that the works on this road in Chimbamilonga will resume. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the people of Nsama District were promised a road and the hon. Minister does not seem to have a categorical answer with regards to when the construction works will start on the Nsumbu-Mpulungu Road. Further, there is a road from Mporokoso which passes through Nsama and Nsumbu. May I know whether that road which was promised to the people of Nsama District will be constructed this year.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, although the question had to do with the Mbala-Kasaba Bay-Nsumbu Road, I will answer his question, the road he is referring to is under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Project, and therefore, that road will be worked on.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: When?

Mr Speaker: Order!

When, hon. Minister?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it will be constructed under phase II of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Project.

Mr Speaker: Order!

When is Phase II?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, after we finish Phase I.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, if you do not know the date, just indicate and I will give you the liberty to come back and explain when the works will be done. I know Phase II is after Phase I even without the plan being here. It can only be after Phase I, anyway. 

Laughter

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, thank you for that kind guidance. I will come back to answer that question when I have the answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure us that the money for the construction of this road is ready? I ask this because we need to know that the construction works will not be abandoned after the contractor starts due to lack of funds. Is the money for completing the works available? 

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, which road?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, could you just clarify your question?

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, it is the Mbala-Kasaba Bay-Nsumbu Road I have been talking about. I have been to Kasaba Bay and I know it very well. The works on this road were abandoned. Can you assure us that as you resume works on the road, the money is readily available to complete the works? I have noted that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think that you have clarified your question.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, after the feasibility studies have done, the contract for constructing the road will only be awarded and signed when the money will be available. 

I thank you, Sir.

RESTOCKING OF CATTLE AND GOATS IN MUCHINGA PROVINCE

313. Mr Kunda (Muchinga) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock what the total number of cattle and goats earmarked for restocking in Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency was.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Cattle Restocking Project was allocated K400,000 through Central Province -  Office of the President - Provincial Administration in the 2014 Budget. The province targeted the procurement of sixty in-calf heifers for restocking in all the constituencies. They were targeted to receive four in-calf heifers to be given to one farmers’ group in each constituency. However, these funds were not released on time and, therefore, the in-calf heifers were not procured. Nevertheless, the funds were later released through the District Commissioners’ offices. Ten of the eleven districts in the province have received K36,000 while Chibombo District has received K40,000. Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency has been allocated four in-calf heifers from the 2014 Budget. For the 2015 Budget, K200,000 has been allocated for the same activity. No goats have been targeted for distribution under this project for both 2014 and 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether it is now the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s policy to use District Commissioners (DCs) in disbursing funds when we have the District Agricultural Co-ordinators (DACOs), who are supposed to be dealing with agriculture and livestock issues. 

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, district administrators are part of the Government. Most of them are farmers’ groups, and as Government, we feel that they should work together with Members of Parliament. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what restocking breed is being given to the farmers. 

Mr Monde hesitated.

Mr Speaker: Was the question clear, hon. Minister? 

Mr Monde: Yes, Sir. We are giving them heifers. 

Interruptions 

Hon. UPND Members: What breed? 

Mr Muntanga: Heifers? 

Mr Monde: We are giving these heifers to the farmers’ groups depending on where they are located. There is a difference in the pricing according to the breed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Nkombo: Hon. Monde, cattle breeds …

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: …include Brahman, Bonsmara, Angoni and Boran. 

For us Tongas, cattle are wealth. So as you distribute this wealth, the question from Hon. Hamusonde and I, is what breed …

Mr Muntanga: Are you giving them? 

Mr Nkombo: What is the name of the breed? Is it Angoni, Bonsmara …

Mr Shakafuswa: It is cattle. 

Mr Nkombo: …or is it just cattle? 

Laughter 

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, there are various breeds and at the moment I cannot state exactly which breed was distributed in which constituency.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr M. Malama (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister kindly indicate the names of the ten constituencies earmarked to receive the heifers.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the entire province had a budget of K400,000. Eleven districts in the province have been given these funds and all the constituencies therein will benefit. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, who is very eloquent, is very good at answering …

Mr Nkombo: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: …questions, but wrongly.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Ask your question.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, under the District Agricultural Co-ordinators (DACOs), we have all the expertise in agriculture. They interact, at all times, with agricultural players and stakeholders in these areas. Why has this Government brought in a District Commissioner whose only qualification is being a vuvuzela of a political party?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, though I have already answered this question, I said that there are committees in place which are chaired by the DCs. in this programme, we are selecting one farmers’ group in each district. We could not only use the District Agricultural Co-ordinators (DACOs), because we needed another person to chair the meetings. The two are, therefore, working hand in hand. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalomo, you may ask the last supplementary question. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, heifer distribution is a policy matter for the ministry. However, I have heard the hon. Deputy Minister state that he is not aware of the breed that farmers are being supported with.

Mr Nkombo: Maybe, they are goats. 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: May I know if there is any policy on the distribution of heifers so that these matters are taken care of. 

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, there is a policy on cattle restocking. We have different breeding centres in this country which have a variety of breeds. The hon. Minister, in his response, said that he did not have, just like I do not have, the names of the breeds that were distributed in Muchinga Province. Take note also that we did state in the answer that we did not necessarily get heifers from our breeding centres but instead gave the province money for them to go and buy in-calf heifers. Therefore, the breeds that were bought are not a matter that we are aware of. However, if the hon. Member is really keen on knowing the particular breeds that were bought, I can certainly come back with an answer on that. Needless to say, there is a policy and we have a variety of breeds in our centres. 

I thank you, Sir. 

REHABILITATION OF SESHEKE AIRSTRIP

314. Mr Sianga (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the rehabilitation of Sesheke Airstrip would commence;

(b)    what the time-frame for the completion of the project was; and

(c)    what the estimated cost of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Siamunene): Mr Speaker, the Government has adopted the phased approach to work on these airstrips. Sesheke Airstrip is profiled to be done in 2017. The time-frame for the project will only be known after the preparation of the diagrams and contract documents have been finalised. However, we have not reached this stage. 

Finally, the cost estimate will be availed once the consultant and a contractor are appointed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the airstrip will be done in 2017, by that time the area will probably be encroached on. Are they going to provide another location for the airstrip? 

Mr Siamunene: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the hon. Member is very aware of this problem. Therefore, we must work together to protect it because, as Member of Parliament for Sesheke, the airstrip is also his concern.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned Phases I and II. In which phase is this project? 

Mr Siamunene: Mr Speaker, I stated that the project is in Phase II.

Laughter 

Mr Siamunene: It is that clear. This is the answer.

I thank you, Sir. 

ELECTRIFICATION OF RURAL SCHOOLS

315. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development when the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) would electrify Mubamba, Kanyembo and other rural schools in Nchelenge Parliamentary Constituency. 

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, based on the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), the electrification of Kanyembo should have been done in 2013 and Mubamba in 2014. Unfortunately, due to insufficient funding to electrify the rural growth centres during the 2013 and 2014 project implementation years, the two projects have been rolled over to 2018.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, is that realistic? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, it is realistic. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we have heard about rural electrification programmes several times in this House. Every time they talk about it they say there is no money and that nothing has been done. Will there be a time when this programme will be implemented anywhere if you are calling it realistic, even in Nchelenge where you are failing? Do we expect electricity to be set up anywhere else?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the answer is yes. Only last year, we commissioned about twenty projects which were completed by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). As Hon. Kaingu said, we must work hard as Zambians so that we generate more funds to finance these projects. For example, REA may have plans to carry out twenty projects in a year, but the money released by the Ministry of Finance may only be enough for twelve projects. What happens in that case is that those other projects are rolled over to the next year. That is the problem we have.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there is nothing like ‘let us work hard together’ because when you were campaigning you said you would do all these things.

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, when you were answering the hon. Member for Nchelenge, you said that these areas should have been electrified in 2013. Clearly, they were not. I also wish to think that these particular projects were in the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP). 

Mr Speaker, for some time now, we have been asking you to give us a copy of the REMP which should give us details of where it has worked, where it has not worked, where it has been aborted and why. Even in 2018, you may say it will be done in 2026. When will you give us the master plan so that we know the status quo of the project? When you campaign next time, do not involve us …

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think you have already put your question. This is the time for supplementary questions. We have past that stage.

Laughter

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we distributed copies of the master plan. If Hon. Nkombo did not receive his then we can give one to him.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying that he gave us a master plan. However, is your master plan not null and void looking at the way you are procrastinating on these projects? Do you think that master plan is still valid or do you need to bring another one?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I explained earlier that Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has plans. For example, if they have twenty projects for a year and they receive money for only twelve projects then, automatically, the remaining projects will be rolled over to the next year.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
 

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

HOUSES FOR PERSONNEL IN SIKONGO DISTRICT 

316.    Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    when the Government would construct staff houses for health personnel in Sikongo District; and 

(b)    when a utility motor vehicle would be provided to the Department of Community Development and Social Welfare.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health intends to construct staff houses for health personnel in Sikongo in 2015 under its Infrastructure Operational Plan. Further, the procurement process will commence before the end of the second quarter upon receipt of funds from the Central Treasury.

Sir, the purchase of utility vehicles for the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) implementing districts, including Sikongo, has already been done with the help of co-operating partners. The vehicles will be handed over to all the districts under the SCT on 26th February 2015. They will all be given vehicles, apart from those whose procurement was done in 2013 and whose vehicles are still new and reliable.

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the new vehicle …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order relating to the Government. Is the Government in order to be segregative in their dealing of business? 
Sir, Yesterday the United Party for National Development (UPND) requested a permit from the police to be able to march in support of their dead colleague, which was denied. 

However, on the same day, Patriotic Front (PF) party cadres were outside Parliament Buildings making noise and disturbing hon. Members with their protests. One group is denied a permit while the other is allowed to do things on their own without permission. Will this country be administered under such segregation? Tell us so that we can tell our people to come and protest for all the hon. UPND Members who are sitting there serving the PF so that we ensure that they do not continue enjoying the right to be called hon. UPND Members of Parliament while they are with the PF. Is that the standard, Sir?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 If what the hon. Member for Kalomo Central has described is what happened, then it is not correct.
 Hon. Member for Sikongo, continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, I was thanking the hon. Minister for the new vehicle that has been given to Sikongo. 

Sir, how many houses are you going to construct for the health workers in Sikongo District?

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that there is need for accommodation for all the Government workers in this country. As a result of this, the Government will begin by constructing three houses in Sikongo.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that three houses will be constructed in Sikongo. Are these houses for the nurses or just for the doctors?

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, these houses are for the nurses.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, what will be the total cost for these three houses?

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, each house will cost K400,000. If the hon. Member wants to get the total cost for three houses, he should multiply that figure by three.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, are the vehicles that have been procured suitable for sandy and muddy terrain in places like Sikongo and Mitete? 

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I wish to state that the vehicles are extremely reliable and I want to confirm that they are landcruiser-type of vehicles.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, we have just been told that one house will cost K400,000. This is quite a colossal sum of money which can build a very big house. Why are you spending such amounts of money on only three houses in one district instead of building houses that can cost about K120,000 each?

Interruptions

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we have decided to spend K400,000 on each house because we want to build houses which are going to be habitable for our Government workers.

I thank you, Sir.

GOMBE PRIMARY SCHOOL IN WAYA WARD

317. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    When Gombe Primary School in Waya Ward in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency would be upgraded into a secondary school; and

(b)    Whether the Government had any plans to build more secondary schools in Waya Ward to cater for children from surrounding areas.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on both my right and left.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Gombe Primary School in Waya Ward is one of the twenty-two primary schools earmarked for upgrading into a day secondary school. Funds to undertake the construction were released in November, 2014 and as such, construction works will continue in 2015.

Sir, at the moment, the priority of the Government and the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is to ensure that Gombe Primary School is upgraded into a fully operational day secondary school before other secondary schools in terms of construction are considered to cater for the surrounding areas. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, what could be the time frame for the project?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, of course, we expect the completion to be within 2015, unless there will be other compelling factors.

I thank you, Sir. 

DIP TANKS AND SPRAY RACES

318. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    When dip tanks in cattle breeding areas in Kapiri Mposhi Parliamentary Constituency would be constructed; and

(b)    When spray races would be installed. 

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Ng’onga): Mr Speaker, may you allow me, as I am standing for the first time as Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, to congratulate His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu for being elected at the just-ended election that we had. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I also wish to congratulate Her Honour, the Vice-President, Mrs Inonge Wina, for that heavy position that she has been appointed to.

Sir, the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, is in the process of constructing dip tanks throughout the country. The House may recall that in the previous sitting, the ministry, through the Deputy Minister, released and distributed schedules on the status of dip tanks in the country to those who had requested for the documents. However, this is with the exception of the Western Province where there is no East Coast Fever (ECF). The construction and rehabilitation of dip tanks is being undertaken in phases, with two dip tanks namely, Kampumba and Mondake being planned for rehabilitation in Kapiri Mposhi District in 2015 at an estimated cost of K75,000 each.

Sir, there is no planned installation of spray races because they are considered under the same category as dip tanks since they perform the same function. Where there are dip tanks, there will be no spray races.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 Before I give the Floor to the next person, I just want to guide the House. Members of the Executive, I know it is nice to give detailed answers to questions but, sometimes, you open yourselves to questions that do not relate to the question on the Order Paper. That was just guidance. I am not saying that you should stop giving detailed answers. If you do that then you should be ready to answer the questions.

Mr Musonda: Mr Speaker, when exactly in 2015 will the rehabilitation works start?

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, in my answer, I had actually indicated that funds for the rehabilitation of these two dip tanks have been made available. So, these works are in progress.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in response to part of question (a), you said that about K75,000 will be required to rehabilitate two dip tanks. I am also aware that to build a new dip tank, K30,000 is enough. What rehabilitation works are you going to embark on against this K75,000?

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, this was a budgeted figure and calculated according to the works that are required to rehabilitate these dip tanks. As hon. Members may know, some of these dip tanks are in a terrible state and K75,000 is sufficient for each dip tank.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether they will also provide boreholes wherever there will be a dip tank in order to make it easy for farmers to get water.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, in fact, this cost is a complete package. You cannot construct a dip tank without a source of water so the boreholes will be there.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwewa (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and, indeed, Heifer International for providing cattle to the people of Mwansabombwe for the very first time in their lives. However, I would like to find out when the Government plans to construct dip tanks in Mwansabombwe so that these animals do not die.

Mr Muntanga: How many are they?

Mr Mwewa: 200.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the ministry has a schedule on the dip tanks that will be constructed countrywide, but I do not have that information right now. Therefore, I would ask the hon. Member of Parliament to come to our office and we will be able to provide that information as to when that will be done.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ehee! That is what I meant.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Do not open yourself to questions that do not relate to the answer, you might know the answer but you may not have it right there and then, so to avoid that, sometimes, restrict yourself to the question. 

Hon. Member for Kalomo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we have heard about the construction of these dip tanks for the past three years.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right! 

Hon. Members on my right, when we say order, we ask you to consult quietly.

Mr Muntanga: My good friend, the former Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, came up with a beautiful tabulation, the problem was money. Everywhere, including in my constituency, no constructions have happened. Could it be that the cost of these dip tanks is too high at K75,000  and is making it difficult when from my experience, you could still develop a dip tank for K15,000? The hon. Minister stated that the cost includes the construction of boreholes, but the figure is still high because there are boreholes for K22,000.

Hon. UPND Members: Even 10!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, has the ministry taken due consideration to the actual costing so that the actual dip tank construction is undertaken and they can stop promising people continuously, year in year out?

    Mr Lubinda: Sir, let me clarify that it may not necessarily be correct that no dip tanks have been rehabilitated because there are some dip tanks that have been done, and the Ministry of Finance has been releasing money to our ministry for projects such as this. However, let me also appreciate the concern by the hon. Member about the cost at which these dip tanks are being rehabilitated. I wish to state that because of that concern, and the need for us to be prudent in the utilisation of resources, my colleagues and I pledge to go and sit with the technocrats to review whether these costs are really genuine or not …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and this will be done because it is in the interest of the country that we use their money prudently.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That is what we will do.
Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his response, indicated that the dip tanks will be constructed throughout the country. I would like to find out the total number of dip tanks earmarked for construction and how long it will take to construct these dip tanks.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, yes, indeed, we opened ourselves for these questions and, next time, we will be careful in the way we respond.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: However, Sir, the hon. Deputy Minister was quite clear when he said that in the last session of Parliament, the hon. Deputy Minister responsible for agriculture laid on the Table of the House a full schedule on the rehabilitation and digging of dip tanks throughout the country. I am sure that Hon. Mucheleka was one of those hon. Members of Parliament who received that schedule. Even I, as hon. Member of Parliament for a constituency that may not need dip tanks, got a copy of that schedule. Like the hon. Deputy Minister said in his response to the question raised by my colleague the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwansabombwe, if he is really keen on following up this matter, he does not need to come to the ministry. All he has to do is whisper to anyone of the three of us and we shall come with the schedule but, if indeed, it is a matter that he thinks is of interest to all hon. Members of Parliament, he is at liberty to put a question and we will certainly provide the information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the ministry has plans to train special people or cadres in dip tank-construction in the ministry.

Mr Lubinda: Yes, Sir, the programme for digging and rehabilitating dip tanks is not a once-off activity. It is a continuous. We shall continue to rehabilitate these dip tanks because they will be wearing out and breaking down. So, indeed, we do have a programme to train people in the ministry who shall assist in rehabilitating the dip tanks. As a matter of fact, going forward, we would like to train the farmers themselves, the users of the dip tanks, so that they may be able to rehabilitate them whenever they break down.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I will be failing in my duties if I did not recognise the hard work of my colleagues in Sinjembela, Siavonga, Itezhi-tezhi …

Mr Nkombo: Sinazongwe.

Mr Mwiimbu: … and Sinazongwe constituencies for ensuring that our United Party for National Development (UPND) leader had a run-away result in those four constituencies.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I would like to thank them very much, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi who cannot speak for himself …

Mr Deputy Speaker: No.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … I would like to find out …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

 Hon. Member for Monze Central, please, ask your follow-up question.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out as to when the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock will honour their promises and pledges pertaining to dip tank rehabilitation as per promises that were made during the campaigns in Lundazi …

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: … during the run up to the 2015 elections.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Good question.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, since Lundazi has been referred to specifically, let me also take this opportunity to thank the people of Lundazi, Lubansenshi, Lusaka Central, Kasama Central, Kabwata, the people of Nchelenge, the list is long for giving His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, such resounding votes.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank all the Zambian people for embracing President Edgar Chagwa Lungu as their beloved sixth Republican President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, please, respond to the question on the boreholes in Lundazi.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I have already stated on the Floor of this House that the schedule is available. If Hon. Mwiimbu is keen on following up promises that we made to the people of Lundazi, he is at liberty to ask and I will bring it so that he can use that information for whatever he wishes. Further, and if he needs, he can also extend that information to the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi if he thinks that the hon. Member cannot get that information.

 I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

YOUTH RESOURCE CENTRE IN NKEYEMA DISTRICT

319. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport when a youth resource centre would be constructed in Nkeyema District.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, it is the vision of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to construct at least one ultra-modern Youth Skills Training Centre in each district including Nkeyema District. This programme will be implemented in phases subject to availability of funds from the National Treasury.

Sir, I would like to emphasise that it is the vision of this Government. Therefore, I am not opening a Pandora’s Box because it is a vision.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 You have already opened the ‘Box’ by generalising to each district.

 Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the answer given by the hon. Minister is that the construction will be done in phases. May I know in which phase Nkeyema Youth Resource Centre will be constructed.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the ministry is currently running nineteen youth resource centres. Nkeyema was just created from Kaoma District. We already have a youth resource centre in Kaoma and the Western Province in particular. Further, in the spirit of equity, we would want to look at other districts that do not have youth resource training centres at the moment. Later on, when enough funds are made available from the National Treasury, Nkeyema will be considered.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalila (Lukulu East): Sir, since this is a national programme that will embrace all districts, I am equally interested to know in which phase Lukulu has been placed.

 Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, maybe, allow me to go through the list of all the youth training centres that we have in Zambia so that those who would want to ask can get the information. Bear in mind that this Government intends to promote equity. The following are the youth training centres countrywide:

 Name            District                Province

Chisangwe            Lunga                    Luapula

Chinsali            Chinsali                Muchinga

Chiota            Rufunsa                Lusaka

Kalingalinga            Lusaka                    Lusaka

Kaoma            Kaoma                    Western 

Katembula             Lufwanyama                Copperbelt

Kwilimusa            Mpongwe                Copperbelt

Luwingu            Luwingu                Northern

Manyinga            Manyinga                N/Western

Mbabala            Choma                    Southern

Mpika            Mpika                     Muchinga

Mufumbwe            Mufumbwe                N/ Western 

Mukwela            Kalomo                S/ Province

Mumbwa            Mumbwa                Central

Mwinilunga            Mwinilunga                N/Western

Ngungu            Kabwe                    Central 

Samfya            Samfya                Luapula

Zambezi            Zambezi                N/ Western

Ziangangani/Kachinga    Lundazi                Eastern 

Mr Speaker, we also have new ones that we are constructing. As soon as funds permit and once we are done with the ones under construction, we are planning on coming up with the infrastructure plan that will be distributed in the House so that each hon. Member of Parliament will know when we will get to their district.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, so you do not have anything for Lukulu East?

 Laughter

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, we have not yet reached Lukulu East, but we are going to distribute the plan for the whole country. The hon. Member will know when we get to Lukulu.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has also mentioned Gwembe, when will it be considered since it is not on the list? Further, when will this plan be distributed?

 Mr Deputy Speaker:  Order!

To cut the long story short, when the hon. Minister is ready, hon. Members will be informed. So, for the time being, they should wait until the plan is out.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, there are already nineteen youth resource centres in the country and some are under construction, what plans does the ministry have in terms of staffing since this …

Mr Mucheleka interjected.

Mr Muchima: You are disturbing me!

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, do not disturb him.

Mr Muchima: Sir, I was saying that we already have nineteen youth resources centres across the country. Before moving on to the next phase, if at all it will be there, what plans does the ministry have to sustain the current staff that are going months without any pay at all?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, as a country, we must not create a leadership gap between us and the youths. It is for this reason that the ministry has come up with the total package for the training centres so that we can begin training future leaders. 

Sir, we just heard the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education say that we have a challenge of a mismatch between the academic and what is demanded by the industries.

 Interruptions

 Mr Chitotela: I have already said that it is a total package. We want to make sure that once these institutions begin operating, they will have members of staff that are capable of training youths who will be able to take up leadership roles. 

Sir, when I talk about employment, I fully understand why it is important to take care of human resource that you have employed. If you have no capacity to sustain them, do not employ them. So, when we employ, it means that we will have the capacity to pay the people that we employed and make sure that we motivate them so that we do not create the gap between the leadership that is there and the youths. We will not employ people that we cannot pay.

Sir, as far as the annual work plan is concerned, we should be able to distribute the infrastructure plan to all the hon. Members of Parliament so that they know when we will get to their districts.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, …

 Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, it is saddening that the order of the House is not being observed.

Sir, I know that losing an election is a bitter experience.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo:  Is Hon. Mucheleka in order to start calling the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport by his name and requesting that he stand and respond to his question when that is your duty? Is he, therefore, in order to continue behaving like that? 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, do not even waste your time too much because he is not in order.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: This is why we advise seriousness. You have to give us, the presiding officers, the leeway to treat you as hon. Members because once we start interjecting at every point we will delay the proceedings of the House. So, can we, please, do what is correct.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I sat here listening to the hon. Minister read out the places where all these projects are such as Luwingu, Mansa and Ngungu. Chibombo is on the way from Lusaka to all these places.

Laughter 

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, what is the reason for omitting Chibombo from the list of places for the development of these youth centres?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Since I already ruled that, maybe, we should wait for him to issue that master plan, you might discover that actually Chibombo is there. So, let us wait until that time.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that our colleagues across the Floor have a vision to ensure that these youth centres are established. I want to find out how far their vision extends and what is their time-frame?

Mr Chitotela: Sir, there is no need for our colleagues to doubt us. We are a very serious Government and we operate with a vision. We understand our vision and we cannot operate without a plan. That is why, as the Ministry of Youth and Sport, we have requested all associations to come up with a vision on what they would want to achieve. Therefore, our vision will be seen even in the annual infrastructure plan that we will distribute. 

Sir, one hon. Member claimed that he had information that there are members of staff who are not being paid in our training institutions under the ministry. We do not have that information and we would be very grateful if the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i can pass on that information to us so that we can follow up the issue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MODERN SUBORDINATE COURT IN SERENJE DISTRICT

320. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct a modern subordinate court building in Serenje District;

(b)    if so, when the construction would commence; and

(c)    what the estimated cost of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to the construction of a subordinate court in Serenje District and intends to make a provision in the 2016 Budget just like the local courts I referred to yesterday. Currently, the Government endeavours to complete the on-going projects across the country. The commencement date of construction of the said infrastructure as well as the attendant cost will be determined only when feasibility studies are completed which will be before the presentation and appropriation of the 2016 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Did we get the answer to part (c) of the question?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I combined the response on the cost and duration of the project.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Alright.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that currently the ministry is trying to complete the projects that are outstanding throughout the country. When will Bilili Court be completed because it has been under construction for the past four years now and without staff housing?

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is good. It seems my advice to the Executive has prompted my colleagues on the left to take advantage of that. Anyway, that is the proper way of doing things.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, we do not have any qualms about answering questions on infrastructure …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! The word ‘qualms’ is unacceptable. Can you withdraw it, hon. Minister.

Mr Mukata: It is withdrawn, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker:  Yes, now what is your answer?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, the question on the Order Paper relates to subordinate court premises. The issue of staff housing, which the hon. Member is referring to, can specifically be looked at if a substantive question is submitted. We are looking at court infrastructure and not the auxiliary facilities. 

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF ROAD IN CHIEF MBOROMA AND CHIEF MBOSHA’S AREAS

321. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the construction of a road from Chief Mboroma to Chief Mbosha’s area in Mkushi South Parliamentary Constituency will commence.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, this road is located in Luano District and connects the chiefdoms of Mboroma and Mbosha at a stretch of about 100 km. The road further proceeds to Rufunsa District from Mbosha. This road has deteriorated to an earth track over the years and requires extensive opening up and installation of several drainage structures.

The works required on this road are complex in nature owing to the rough terrain in the area. A feasibility study for the construction of the road from Chief Mbosha to Ching’ombe up to Old Mkushi is currently under procurement. A feasibility study for the remainder of the stretch will be considered for inclusion in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you have given out a detailed answer, but you are not answering the question, when will the works commence?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the stretch is from Mbosha, Ching’ombe to Mboroma. The procurement is under process for the feasibility study of the Mbosha and Ching’ombe stretch. For the remaining stretch, Ching’ombe to Mboroma, the feasibility study will be included in the 2016 Annual Work Plan. Thereafter, that is when we expect to do the construction works.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, that road passes through a game park and people travelling on it take two days walking. Will the Government consider offering transport assistance for these people by providing some Landcruisers?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I am answering for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and we do not supply that sort of facility.

I thank you, Sir.

PAYMENT OF RETIREES OWED BY NITROGEN CHEMICALS OF ZAMBIA

322. Mr Zimba (Chama North) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)    how much money was owed to the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia retirees as of October 2014; and

(b)    when the retirees would be paid their terminal benefits.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, in response …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! I cannot hear the hon. Minister.

Please, let us learn to listen to answers.

May the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, in response to question (a), I wish to inform the House that the outstanding claim by Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) retirees as of 15th October, 2014 was K27,215,496.23.

Sir, with regard to question (b), the NCZ has gradually been dismantling the outstanding terminal benefits to its former employees. This is because the company is slowly coming out of its insolvent state where it used to go for months without production and without paying salaries to its employees. The company has now been consistently producing and paying salaries and slowly dismantling arrears of terminal benefits, trade creditors and other outstanding debts. Every month, a number of retirees are paid. All these achievements are as a result of deliberate re-capitalisation of the NCZ by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and the business support that the company receives from the Government.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

FUNDING WOMEN’S ASSOCIATIONS IN NCHELENGE

323. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:
(a)    when the K50,000 that was approved for the women’s associations in Nchelenge District in 2012 would be released; and

(b)    when the payment of funds to non-eligible beneficiaries under the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Scheme in Nchelenge District will be stopped.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Limata): Mr Speaker, in answering the question from the hon. Member for Nchienge …

Mr Mwiimbu: Nchienge?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, it is not Nchienge.

Laughter

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, in response to (a), the Department of Community Development only paid out K10,000.00 to Lushiba Women’s Club in Nchelenge District in 2012. The other clubs were not paid due to inadequate funding. The Women’s clubs in the districts have been advised to make fresh applications for consideration.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member for Monze Central is very uncomfortable with that pronunciation. I think that for the sake of the records and the people listening …

Ms Limata: Nchelenge.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Nchelenge, not Nchienge.

Ms Limata: Nchelenge

Mr Deputy Speaker: Aha! Okay.

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, the response to (b), is that the ministry is currently re-assessing beneficiaries enrolled and any households not eligible will be removed and will not appear on the January/February 2015 payment list.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, when the Government makes a promise, it must be like a father who promises his child. So, the expectant child must be given. You promised K50,000 and you only disbursed K10,000 with a balance of K40,000. Now you are telling these poor women to restart the process which is cumbersome and costly. Who is going to give them the money to restart this process? What is happening with this Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is for the poor people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: The balance will be paid to the people in that area.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, prior to the 20th January, 2015, elections, there were allegations that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, with a view to woe voters in these particular areas like Nchelenge, were giving money to non-eligible members of the public …

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and this has been confirmed. What are they going to do? What punishment are they going to met out on those who were giving out public resources to in-eligible members of the public through the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Scheme in Nchelenge?

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, like I have already said, the PF Government is for the poor people. If you are bitter about having lost an election, …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Ms Limata: We, the PF Government, are going to pay the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Monze Central.

It will help all of us if we can debate in a spirit of co-operation and understanding. I think that …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The question was in relation to money being given to those who are not eligible. In his remarks, the hon. Member for Monze Central was trying to find out what you are going to do, or what the Government is going to do to those who gave out money to people who were in-eligible. 

Now, the answer is talking about bitter loss. Let us debate in a spirit of trying to convince each other rather than getting at each other. 

So, with that kind advice, I know I have pre-empted the point of order which the hon. Member for Monze Central wanted to raise. It is not my intention to allow debate on this issue to continue. I, therefore, move on to the next question.

Interruptions

PALACES FOR TRADITIONAL LEADERS IN SERENJE DISTRICT

324. Mr Kunda (Muchinga) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs when the construction of palaces for the following traditional leaders in Serenje District would commence:
(a)    Chieftainess Serenje;
(b)    Chief Mailo; and
(c)    Chief Chisomo.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the construction of palaces is being done in a phased approach. In the first phase of the programme, the Government will construct three palaces in Central Province. Earmarked for construction are:

(a)    Chieftainess Serenje of Serenje District;

(b)    Chief Moono of Mumbwa District; and

(c)    Senior Chief Mukuni of Kapiri Mposhi District.

The process of constructing Chieftainess Serenje’s Palace has started as funds for this exercise have already been sent to the provincial office. Guidelines and designs for the construction have already been approved by the Cabinet. However, Chiefs Mailo and Chisomo’s Palaces will be considered in the next phases.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious procedural point of order pertaining to the privileges of this House. Is the august House in order to allow the hon. Member to derogatorily respond to my question without addressing the question that I raised on the Floor of this House pertaining to misuse of Government resources relating to a question on the order paper? Is the hon. Member in order to answer me derogatorily on an issue that is as serious and relates to the abuse of Government resources? I need to be assured of my privileges as a dignified hon. Member of this House as I ask on a matter that is on the Order Paper.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You are quite right. However, as presiding officers, the advantage that we have is that when our judgment is that the debate proceeding in the manner it was progressing was going to bring in a lot of misunderstanding and, maybe, put the House in a situation that would become unbearable, you have fortunately empowered us to use our discretion. I ruled that she was not in order to talk about bitterness instead of answering the question. So, to that extent, you have a point. Maybe, your question was not answered but I have already ruled. Maybe, I will allow you to have that question answered properly next time. For now, my ruling is final.

Mr Mwiimbu: When?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Unfortunately, I have made a ruling and you cannot begin to ask me when.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, in view of the procedures that have been put in place by the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health for women’s clubs to access resources, and taking into account the answer given by the hon. Minister that K10,000 instead of K40,000 was released, meaning there is a balance …
    
Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chongwe, you are taking me back. We have gone past that and are now looking at Question 324, and the hon. Minister gave an answer as regards chiefs’ palaces in Serenje, Mumbwa and Kapiri Mposhi. Now you have taken me back to Question 323.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I got mixed up. I was going to ask a question then and I still had it in mind, but the question now relates to the chiefs’ palaces. Thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Okay.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, obviously, this is a good programme because everyone wants a good home. However, I want to find out from the hon. Minister responsible how long it will take to complete 284 palaces, taking into account the number of chiefs that we have in the country.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I know that the project may take long but we have started. Money for the construction of three chiefs’ palaces in each province was released last year. In the next phase, we are going to release some more money so that other chiefs’ palaces can be constructed. It may take long but we will finish.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, allow me to congratulate the Vice-President and thank his Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for appointing and recognising women. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is possible to have the plan for the construction of these chiefs’ palaces. I ask because in some areas we are allocating some funds for the renovation of chiefs’ palaces from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, we might have a double release. When can we have a plan on these constructions and which palaces are being looked at, especially this year?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, we already have a design which was approved and this is the one that we are using.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala) Rose and did not speak for a while.

Thank you Mr Speaker. That was a moment of silence for our colleague who was slain in Mtendere.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, as a rider on Hon. Masebo’s question, how long will it take to complete the programme to construct chiefs’ palaces? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, this is an on-going project. We shall be allocating finances towards more chiefs’ palaces as we are given more money by this House. When we are given more money, we intend to increase the number of palaces per province. This will depend on how much money will be appropriated to my ministry.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he is saying that they do not have any plans at all for the construction of chiefs’ palaces and then he lamented about sourcing money. Money follows plans. Can the hon. Minister clearly tell us when he will have a plan in place for the construction of chiefs’ palaces. That is what we want to know.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, nobody here said that there is no plan. We have a plan to construct palaces in all the chiefdoms. Phase I has been rolled out and monies have been given according to the Budget which was approved by this House. We shall continue to build these palaces as funds are made available to our ministry. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether all the chiefs have agreed to have the same plans for their palaces.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, yes, the decision to have the same plan for all the palaces was made in consultation with their royal highnesses and these houses are actually institutional houses. Therefore, consensus was reached in consultation with them. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like to assume that the Government plans for things that are realistic and achievable. We have a total of almost 300 chiefs and, according to design, we are supposed to spend K650 thousand per house. When you multiply these figures, they give you an incredible figure of K195 billion. Now, my question is; is this Government being realistic, or are they trying to hoodwink the poor chiefs into believing that they will assist them in building these palaces? 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we have mentioned that all the chiefs require houses. That is a well-known fact. That is the reason why we are going about this project in phases. As the resource envelope allows, we shall keep building these houses until we complete all of them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for disturbing the hon. Member for Monze Central from asking his follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, Article 11 of the Constitution of Zambia declares, as I read in part that:

 “Every person in Zambia has been, and shall continue to be entitled to the fundamental rights and freedoms of the individual, that is to say, the right to life..., whatever his race, place of origin, political opinions, colour, creed, sex or marital status. But subject to the limitations contained in this part, to each and the following, namely; life, liberty, security of the person and the protection of the law,... and protection for the privacy of his home and other property etcetera.”

Mr Speaker, I have a document here which I will later lay on the Table of this House. The document is a report in a case of malicious damage to property and theft written by Senior Criminal Investigations Officer,  David K. Mwanamwalye from Woodlands Police Station. It reads in part:

“… I am directed to inform you that this office received the above reports from two different complainants from the same area in Mtendere East and the reports were received on 24th and 25th of January, 2015 respectively....Acting on the report, the scene of the crime was visited and investigations into the matter have since been launched, however, no arrest or recoveries have been made so far.”

Mr Speaker, the man who reported this matter, a Mr Grayzer Matapa from Mtendere East reported that some of his properties were damaged and others stolen by suspected Patriotic Front (PF) cadres. Sadly, this man is now dead.

Mr Speaker, I also have medical reports …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your point of order? 

Please, come to your point of order.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the point of order is …

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am building the point of order …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

. We have no objection to your build up, but you are taking too long. I am sure that you are capable of summarising. Please, make it short and come to your point of order.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I also have copies of medical reports for Emmanuel Njovu, Agness Laima Ndlobvu and Teddy Ndlobvu obtained from the Zambia Police Service, University Teaching Hospital (UTH) Police Post on 11th February, 2015. These three people reported to the police that they were assaulted by suspected PF cadres.

Mr Grayzer Matapa reported the case of malicious damage to his property on 24th January, 2015, at Woodlands Police Station but no arrests were made.  

Mr Speaker, I have three other reports with me and I have been waiting for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who may be committed to other national duties, to come to this House and address these issues. Is this how we shall be protected by the police? The man reported a case of malicious damage to his property and later lost his life. 

Mr Speaker, I am going to lay these papers on the Floor of the House… 

Laughter 

Mr Mpundu: On the Floor?

Mr Mutelo: According to the article that I have just read, the Police Service is there for the protection of every Zambian. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: So, what is your point of order?

Mr Mutelo: Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order not to instruct police officers to act on reports when they receive them? Now, a life has been lost and we have people being brutally …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, …

Mr Mutelo: …attacked on a daily basis.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, how do you know that the police have not taken up the matter? 

Mr Mutelo: He is dead.

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo laid the paper on the Table. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, please, take note of that complaint. The person is dead and I hope that you are investigating. With that ruling, this will be the last point of order in today’s Sitting. 

Hon. Member for Monze Central, you may continue. 

Mr Mwiimbu: I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, I was raising a point pertaining to the cost and duration of building these palaces as indicated by my colleague, the hon. Member for Kabompo West. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs whether he has consulted his colleague, the hon. Minister of Finance, to ensure that they borrow money in order to build palaces for chiefs, considering that this is the only Government in Africa that is able to borrow money on behalf of other countries as they did for Zimbabwe, and which Zimbabwe will not pay back. 

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we shall be building these palaces as money is made available to us. This has been reached upon with the consultation of their royal highnesses. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Dundumwezi, you may ask the last supplementary question.  

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I want to believe that the Government has built some palaces and is still building more. May I know how many palaces are not yet constructed throughout the country.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we have just started building the chiefs’ palaces which are institutional. We are aware that in some areas palaces have already been built by Their Royal Highnesses’ subjects and so on. 

I thank you, Sir. 

CONSTRUCTION OF MODERN SHOPPING MALL

325. Mr Kapyanga asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether land for constructing a modern shopping mall in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency had been identified. 

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the Kabwe Municipal Council has communicated to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing that they have identified a vacant land next to Mulungushi Textiles as a suitable place to construct a shopping mall. 

Since the land belongs to the Zambia Army, the council has formally requested the ministry to engage the Ministry of Defence to consider allocating land for the construction of the mall. The matter is still under serious discussion between the two ministries. Once concluded, the council will be informed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there is any time-frame to this process. 

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, right now, we are talking about identifying a piece of land. The issue of time-frame will come in after we have identified the land and construction commences. 

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, what is the time-frame for identifying the land? 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you may want to repeat the time-frame for identifying the land. 

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, land has been identified by the municipal council. However, this land belongs to the Zambia Army and discussions between our ministry and the Ministry of Defence are still on-going. Once this is concluded, the issue of time-frame for construction will come in. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why this project has not been given to the Ministry of Defence to handle. 

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, it is neither the Ministry of Defence nor the Ministry of Local Government and Housing constructing this mall. Our role is to simply identify the land for investors to do the actual construction. 

The owners of the land, however, are the Zambia Army.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is answering as though an investor has already been identified and is just waiting for land to be allocated to him. Is this the correct position?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, this is a council project. When the council met, there was a resolution that they needed a shopping mall. According to the wisdom of the council, they agreed that the land within the surroundings of the Mulungushi Textiles would be more suitable. 

However, it turned out that this particular land belongs to the Ministry of Defence, particularly the Zambia Army. They have, therefore, asked the parent-ministry to negotiate with the Ministry of Defence and this is the discussion that the hon. Deputy Minister is referring to.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, from the way questions are being asked and answered, I want to believe that a private investor will construct this shopping mall. Will the Government, through the Ministry of Defence, give this land for free or will you sell it to the private investor?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the shopping mall project is the responsibility of the Kabwe Municipal Council. All the council is seeking is the indulgence of the parent ministry because the land that has been identified does not belong to the council. The parent ministry is, therefore, negotiating on behalf of the council for this piece of land. Once this is done, the council will revert to what started the whole thing. 

The Ministry of Local Government and Housing cannot, therefore, speak on behalf of the council whether under the private-public partnership (PPP) or any other arrangement. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, how far you have gone with the negotiations.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the answer, as we heard, is that these negotiations are on-going and when they are concluded, the municipality of Kabwe will be informed. We are as anxious as the council that this takes place quickly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, if these negotiations fail, is there alternative land that the ministry can get?

Dr Phiri: We are very positive in the way we do things. We are optimistic that the discussions will yield useful results.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the insistence on clinging to the Ministry of Defence land, is it a confirmation that Kabwe Municipal Council has ran out of land?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, let us not prejudge what these institutions do. There is a council in place that includes the hon. Members of Parliament in Kabwe. They sat down to deliberate on this issue. In their collective wisdom, they decided that the best place to locate a shopping mall is the land which the ministry is currently negotiating for. There is no indication of whether they have run out of land or not. The best place, in their view, would be next to Mulungushi Textiles and those of you who know where that place is know that it will be ideal.

Sir, let us see whether these negotiations can yield results. If they do not, then the council will sit down to reconsider what they have asked the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to do for them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister is very positive that this land will be given to Kabwe Municipal Council, is this confirmation that the Ministry of Defence has no use for it?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, twisting very straight-forward issues will not help us. 

Laughter

Dr Phiri: I said that I am very optimistic that the discussions that we are having with the Ministry of Defence will yield the results that will be beneficial to the council. However, we do not insist because we do not know what the final verdict will be. 

Sir, we also need to remember than the hon. Minister of Defence remains the Commander in Chief, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. 

I can only hope that since he is still the Minister of Health …

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Dr Phiri: ... of Defence, we can yield something tangible. If it does not work out, the council has a responsibility to look elsewhere and move forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I ruled that there will be no more points of order.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, following up on Hon. Masebo’s question, this land belongs to the Ministry of Defence and the Municipal Council is negotiating for it. It has asked the mother ministry, which is your ministry, for assistance, but you do not know who the investor is. Is it that you have not found the time to ask them who the investor is? Is it a private investor? Land has got value …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question, hon. Member for Chembe?

Mr Mbulakulima: Suppose this investor is a rogue? Why are you negotiating without knowing on whose behalf you are doing it for?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the question is on identification of land. There was no point for us to have started our contribution by indicating who the investor was. That is in the total package that was presented to the ministry. We are confident that the council needs this land because it will add value to the council’s vision for the Kabwe of tomorrow.

Sir, give them the benefit of doubt and give us also the benefit of doubt and together we pray that this land will be given to the council because it is very important for our people in Kabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

__________
MOTION

     ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. 

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1801 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 26th February, 2015.

__________