Tuesday, 1st December, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning who is attending to other Government Business, the Minister of Works and Supply and Government Chief Whip, Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House today, Tuesday, 1st December, 2015 until further notice.

Thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

WATER TRANSPORT SUB-SECTOR IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for granting me this opportunity to make a ministerial statement on the state of water transport sub-sector in Zambia.

Sir, this august House is well aware that water transport remains one of the critical transportation modes particularly, for places that depend wholly on water for transportation. It is for this reason that the Government attaches importance to the development of this critical sector.

Mr Speaker, the Government is well aware that in the recent past, the utilisation of the rivers and canals as a means of transportation has not been optimal due to various reasons which included, among others, limited dredging equipment, poor infrastructure, shallow canals and low financing of projects in the sector.

Sir, I wish to state that this situation has changed in the last four years, as the current leadership of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has consistently invested in the development of infrastructure and procurement of the equipment to ensure that water transport becomes the preferred means of transport for those people living around the water bodies. This investment is aimed at improving the quality of life of the people in wetlands and lake areas.

Mr Speaker, the Government’s commitment to improve the water transport sector is evidenced by the pre-prioritisation of the water transport sector in the Revised Sixth National Development Plan (RSNDP). With this policy change, the resource allocation to the sector increased. In 2014, the Government allocated K150 million which was utilised to dredge canals across the country and to procure some critical equipment. Further, the Government allocated an additional financing of US$50 million from the Treasury to continue on its resuscitation and enhancement path to provide critical services to wetlands and lake areas.

Sir, the allocation of the US$150 million has had significant impact on the development of the water transport sector as outlined below:

(a)    The procurement of twenty-eight dredging machines to be distributed across the country. These include ten multi-purpose dredgers, five weed harvester dredgers, five cutter suction dredgers and five amphibious excavator dredgers. I propose to distribute these dredgers as follows:

District            No. of Dredgers
Luapula Valley    

Nchelenge    01

Mwansabombwe        01

Mwense    02

Kawambwa    01

Bangweulu Wetlands

Chilubi    02

Samfya        02
    
Lunga    02

Northern Province

Kaputa    01

Muchinga Province

Mpika    01

Lusaka Province

Kafue    01

North-Western Province

Zambezi    01

Western Province

Kalabo-Sikongo    02

Sesheke-Mwandi-Mulobezi    01

Mitete-Lukulu    01

Nalolo-Senanga-Sioma    02

Shang’ombo    01

Kaoma-Mwandi-Nkeyema    01

Eastern Province

Lundazi    01

Copperbelt Province

Ndola    02

Central Province

Chibombo    01
(b)    The procurement of six passenger vessels to operate on Lakes Bangweulu, Mweru and Tanganyika and the Zambezi River;

(c)    The procurement of two cargo vessels to operate on lakes Mweru and Bangweulu; and

(d)    The procurement of sixteen marine patrol boats. This will improve water patrols and promote safety of navigation, thus reducing the number of casualties and fatalities on our water bodies.
Mr Speaker, part of the equipment has already started arriving in the country and is being distributed to various parts of the country in accordance with the assessment findings. There are three dredging machines which have since been distributed to Nalolo, Ndola and Kafue Districts.

Sir, in order to safeguard and prolong the life of the water vessels that are currently operating on our water bodies, the Government has started the construction of harbour facilities, landing jetties and harbour administration blocks in various locations in the country.

Mr Speaker, in addition, another study that is focusing on commercialising the water transport services on lakes Bangweulu, Mweru and Tanganyika was commissioned and the report is expected by the end of December, 2015. These studies are being undertaken with a view to implementing the development of this sector in collaboration with the private sector.

Mr Speaker, Mpulungu Harbour in Northern Province is an important international port for Zambia that facilitates trade between Zambia and the countries in the Great Lakes Region. Mpulungu District and the surrounding areas are partly dependent on Mpulungu Port for their economic and social sustenance as it provides employment opportunities.

In order to facilitate the development of this port, the Government has procured cargo handling equipment to ensure that it operates efficiently. The equipment procured includes:

(a)    one 300 ton crawler crane;

(b)    four 50 ton folk lifts;

(c)    one reach stacker; and

(d)    computers and accessories.

Sir, the Government is also collaborating with the African Development Bank (ADB) to comprehensively modernise the Port of Mpulungu. In this regard, a feasibility study to modernise the port infrastructure was commissioned in June, 2015. The study includes detailed engineering designs of the port and is expected to be concluded in December, 2016.

Mr Speaker, Shang’ombo District in the Western Province is yet another important gateway for trade between Zambia and Angola. To this end, a 10 km canal between Shang’ombo District in Zambia and Rivungu District in Angola has been completed. The contractor has now commenced the construction of terminal port facilities in both Shang’ombo and Rivungu districts. The construction of both the canal and terminal port facilities is financed by the Angolan Government based on the memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed between the two countries on 12th March, 2014, in Luanda, Angola. Further, the Government has awarded a contract to Mongu Trades Training Institute to construct ten medium cost houses to support the operations at the port at Shang’ombo. The award of the contract to Mongu Trades Training Institute is in line with the Government’s pronouncement of creating job opportunities for the youths.

Mr Speaker, in terms of policy reforms, the Government is in the process of revising the Inland Waterways Act, Cap 466, and the Merchant Shipping Act, Cap 468, so that they meet regional and international standards and best maritime practices. In order to improve performance in the water transport sub-sector, the Government has commenced a study which aims at investigating the possibility of transforming the Department of Maritime and Inward Waterways into an Inward Waterways Authority.

Sir, in order to improve and invest in human resource capacities, my ministry plans to establish a Maritime Training School within the country. In order to ensure that this project becomes a reality, the Government is actively engaging various stakeholders who include the International Maritime Organisation and the private sector. This will help develop a critical mass of maritime technocrats who will improve the operations of the sub-sector as well as attract regional trainees.

Mr Speaker, I wish to conclude my statement by reiterating that the water transport sub-sector has the potential to contribute to the national economy and it should, therefore, be supported by all public and private sector institutions. With improved and increased investment and commitment, the Water Transport Sub-Sector will contribute to the development of this country.

Sir, I now lay on the Table the list showing the distribution of the equipment that I mentioned in my statement.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simbao laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I have just returned to the House and I am yet again confronted with the discriminatory nature of our ruling Government. I noticed that they have allocated a number of dredgers to Luapula Province …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Ms Imenda: … and three to Nalolo, in the Western Province, which is Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning’s constituency. The people of Luena also need water transport, but the hon. Minister has not allocated any dredger to Luena. Could he tell me the reason he has not done that? I suggest that of the three that have been allocated to Nalolo, one should be allocated to Luena.

Mr Speaker: No. You are only allowed to seek clarification and not make suggestions.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I apologise if the impression that has been given to the hon. Member of Parliament is that Luapula Province has got more than the Western Province, but the truth is far from it. The total number of dredgers that have been distributed to Luapula Province as well as the Western Province is ten. However, in case the hon. Member did not get me clearly, the dredgers will be distributed as follows:

    Districts    Number of dredgers

    Kalabo/Sikongo    2
    Mongu/Limulunga    2
    Sesheke/Mwandi/Mulobezi    1
    Mitete/Lukulu    1
    Nalolo/Senanga/Sioma    2
    Shang’ombo    1
    Kaoma/Mwandi/Nkeyema    1

Sir, I must again apologise if what has been distributed will not cover Luena, but I am sure …

Hon. Government Members: Limulunga covers Luena.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I thought Mongu/Limulunga encompasses Luena. So, maybe, we need to indicate Luena on our list.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Sir, the biggest economy in the world, the United States of America (USA), extensively uses the military and defence force in the management of inland waterways and, in this case, the Mississippi River is well managed by the army. What is the level of collaboration between the hon. Ministers of Transport and Communication, and Defence in this particular area of inland management so that we can avoid complaints and have fairness, efficiency and reduced financial outflow through the use of these very effective men in uniform?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, our collaboration with the military establishment is very strong. The ministry manages the policy governing transportation in the country and everyone who participates in the transportation industry has to be in liaison and agreement with it. So, we have a strong collaboration with the military. We intend to establish a very strong water transport service for both cargo and passengers. If the hon. Member heard me right, I stated that that is the reason we have equally increased the number of marine patrol boats to promote safety on our water bodies unlike the current situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, in the Western Province, we were given a rig that is still not working. Could the hon. Minister assure me whether the two dredgers that have been allocated to Kalabo and Sikongo will operate efficiently.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member for Kalabo Central that the area has been allocated with three different types of dredgers, thus the excavator, water master and weed harvester. Definitely, one of these will be used for the intended area of the canal. Therefore, I can assure the hon. Member that this time around, all concerns have been taken care of.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, all concerns have been taken care of. That being the case, can he elaborate a little bit more because the terrain in the Western Province is composed of Kalahari sand which poses a major problem to both drilling and dredging equipment, therefore, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister what type of concerns they have taken care of.

 Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the dredging machines are in three types. There is a cutter suction dredger which uses the cutter head which has sharp teeth to cut, dislodge and pump out materials from the river bed using pipes. This is suitable for muddy and sandy areas, which has been given to almost all the areas. We also have the weed harvester which uses the hydraulic cutter head with sharp razors to cut off the weed vegetation, which also discharges through a series of pipes. This used is for vegetation control. The third machine is a multi-purpose machine, which is the water master. This machine combines the hydraulic suction excavation using a bucket hoe and the vegetation control using a rake. It is a multi-purpose is used for vegetation control, suction pumping of sand and mud as well as excavating. We also have the amphibious excavation machine which is typically a conventional excavator.

Sir, this time around, the Maritime Department is trying to look at the needs of our environment and what kind of excavators and dredgers needed which are different from the ones they used to buy. Those were more or less like a standard excavator dredger. Therefore, we have taken care of all areas of concern and the hon. Member should feel comfortable.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, most of the developments that are aimed at improving our water bodies as outlined by the hon. Minister appeared to have been centred around our lakes and improving connectivity with the neighbouring countries to facilitate trade which is a very good thing and I would like to commend the hon. Minister for that initiative. However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there have been any studies or explorations in terms of inland transport to determine its navigability which can help very much in the transportation of cargo and people in a waterway like the Kafue River which connects the Northern part to the Southern part of this country.

 Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, indeed, plans are underway to study how navigable the Kafue River is. Most likely, by mid-next year, a report will be ready. By the way, this has been taken seriously. The Maritime Department has seriously taken this course to see how much we can use the Kafue River in future.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.  

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, these pieces of equipment that are going to be purchased and distributed to various places as announced are pretty expensive, but they are welcome. However, as expensive as these pieces of equipment might be and as we are all aware that we are in dire straits in terms of our economic viability as a country, I would like to know where the money is going to come from or whether there are any donors that are assisting us in this endeavour.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the Government has noticed that too much concentration has been put on roads, totally neglecting the other forms of transport like the waterways, which are a very important form of transport and also affect a very big proportion of the population in this country. In line with the roads sector, the Government also wants improve water transportation. I want to inform the hon. Member for Kabompo West that the money for the purchase of the equipment will come from the Treasury. We have already bought this equipment.  What is remaining is just the operation of this equipment when it arrives. We have already agreed with the hon. Minister of Finance that once we are ready, the money will be provided. This particular sector must be looked at in equal terms with the road sector.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister for the informative statement.

Sir, before independence, traders used to use boats or barges from Chavuma to as far away as Kalabo, but as the years went by, the river got silted and, eventually, they stopped. Considering the measures that the Government has introduced, are you going to consider the Zambezi River as one of the waterways on which to improve transportation to places like Kalabo and Sesheke so that people stop using inland transport from Chavuma, but quickly move by waterway?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question. I must admit and agree that I was not aware that there was water transport between Chavuma and Kalabo, which I believe is a very important kind of transport.

Sir, in addition, to dredgers, I mentioned that the Government has also bought water vessels such as cargo vessels and four passenger vessels. I believe one can be deployed on the Zambezi River so that we can re-establish the connection which used to be there in the past. We shall seriously look at that and see how we can manage to do it.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, indeed, this is a very good statement, but it is like the concentration was so much in the Western and Luapula provinces. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication, …

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Do not address Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Chipungu: Sir, due to siltation, the Luangwa River has become shallow especially on the southern side of the river, where the Lunsemfwa River pours its water into the Luangwa River. Transportation from there to the Luangwa Bridge and the market is by water.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, thank you and I thank the hon. Member for Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency for that question.

First of all, I want to confirm to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma Parliamentary Constituency that the Zambezi River has been allocated one passenger vessel. What the hon. Member for Rufunsa has asked is new. However, what happened is that a feasibility study was done and the areas that were found to be in need were allocated the vessels. However, that does not mean we cannot go back to the Luangwa River to see if it equally deserves a dredger, as the hon. Member has suggested. So, we will take it up and see what can be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, this man from Ikeleng’i was making noise. So, I could not hear what the hon. Minister was saying. What is the total cost of the equipment to be bought?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Member has admitted that he was in the vicinity of noise. I said that the equipment cost US $150 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

EXISTENCE OF INSECTS ALONG THE GREAT EAST ROAD

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for granting me this opportunity to update the House and the nation at large on the reported presence of insects suspected to pose a danger to both human and animal life along the Great East Road between Kacholola and Luangwa Bridge in the Eastern Province.

Sir, following a question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipata Central Parliamentary Constituency, my ministry carried out an investigation to ascertain the existence of these insects and what their impact on people and livestock was.

Mr Speaker, I wish to confirm the existence of the said insects in Nyimba, ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left and right!

Dr Kasonde: ... especially between Kacholola Area and Luangwa River. The insects are now concentrated in the valley areas, about 10 to 15 km from the main road, which is their natural habitat. The insects are most prevalent in the hot season, especially between September and December, every year, and disappear when the rains begin. The insects have been prevalent in the area for more than ten years, and there is no record that they cause any disease to humans apart from the irritation they cause on the bite site.

Sir, there has been an increase in the number of bites and insect population observed this year. This could be attributed to climate change or to the road construction, which has disturbed their habitat in the soil due to excavation and movement of soils coupled with the noise vibrations from the construction equipment. However, in the past month, there have been no reported cases of bites or sight of the insects along the road.

Mr Speaker, the insects are small, measuring about 2mm, with two pairs of light brown coloured wings with dark spots and brown veins. The pronotum, that is the hard part of the insect between the head and the abdomen, has several pit-like structures and has a light brown bend near the head with a dark band in the middle and is light brown at the end. The insect also has a hard triangular bony-like scale in the middle part of its body called the scutellum. The body is dark with legs that are dark and light brown. The insects stayed active for more than forty-eight hours after being collected in plastic bottles. They had the following characteristics, which formed the basis for their preliminary classification:

(a)    x-shaped design on the back when the wings are at rest;

(b)    sucking mouthparts for piercing plant and animal tissue;

(c)    hardened gula, the underside of the head;

(d)    antennae, which have four segments and long;

(e)    compound eyes; and

(f)    pronounced pronotum and distinct triangular scutellum on the mesothorax between the bases of the forewings.

Mr Speaker, I intend to lay on the Table, a drawing of the appearance of the insect, as well as on other insects, the pronotum and scutellum, just to show what I am talking about..

Sir, based on the characteristics that I have talked about, these insects can be classified in the order hemiptera, which includes true bugs, aphides, leafhoppers and relatives. This group is divided into two large suborders, namely, Heteroptera (true bugs) and Homoptera (aphids, leafhoppers and relatives). The sample of insects falls under the suborder Heteroptera.

Mr Speaker, in terms of harm, heteropterans are said to affect humans in several ways. They are common household pests and can spoil the taste of some fruits such as raspberries which can be contaminated by stinkbugs. More importantly, some can attack people directly and inflict painful bites as well as introduce disease-causing organisms. After a bite, a blister-like lesion develops due to scratching. The injection of saliva or poison may cause allergic reactions in susceptible persons.

Sir, no serious effects have been observed so far, except that the victims developed an itching sensation and a blister-like rash that forms on the site of the bite due to the scratching. With regard to the measures that the Government has taken, a team of experts from the Veterinary and Health departments was constituted to assess whether these insects have a long-term effect on the health of humans and animals. Health facilities are providing standard case management for individual victims. The community has been sensitised and encouraged to use repellents, especially the road contractors that have been mostly affected. Test results received from the Veterinary Department indicate that the insects do not carry any disease-causing organisms that they could transmit either to animals or humans, any particular disease.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Dr Kasonde laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for a very good statement. However, can he confirm that those flies were manufactured in Kasama and are being sent to the Eastern Province. Since people in the Eastern Province are very careful, they have repelled them.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Mazoka: Sir, the hon. Minister says the appearance of these insects could be as a result of the road construction in the area. If that is the case, why have these insects not appeared before, because I am sure road construction work has taken place in the area in the past?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you respond to that question, take into account the question from the hon. Member for Chadiza.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, indeed, there have been a lot of rumours and speculations about the origins of these insects. However, the evidence that has been collected so far does not point to the place that the hon. Member referred to. On the contrary, it points to the existence of these insects for a long time in the Eastern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Question!

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, as for the question by the hon. Member for Pemba, it certainly has been found that where there is road construction, these insects have appeared in the last ten years. The more construction works are carried out, the more the insects appear. Therefore, the present situation may be related to the increase in construction works during this particular Government’s tenure.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: That could have caused the increase in these insects.

Thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can we get an assurance from the hon. Minister that the results of the long term research study will be made available. The hon. Minister stated that there has been a long term research carried out by veterinary experts and, I suppose, etiologists.  How long has this been and what are the results like?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, what I stated was that these insects have been found to have been present in the area for ten years, during which no harm to human beings has been found. I also indicated significantly that a group of scientists has now been set up to follow up this story from now onwards. If there any long-term effects on human beings, this should be brought to light at any time in the future.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, when I visited Luangwa Bridge Market, I discovered that these insects are concentrated in that area. When I inquired from the people living there, they told me that the insects were brought by trucks carrying cotton. Therefore, has the ministry considered the route of investigating this allegation, instead of just blaming this problem on road construction?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, that question has, in fact, been raised by the hon. Member before and the team that went there was aware of that possibility. However, there was no reference to cotton in the report I was given and, therefore, I cannot go beyond that.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for, at least, giving us the Government’s position on this matter. However, would he indicate to the House whether or not in the hot season next year the ministry will actually be spraying areas which are heavily populated like the Luangwa Bridge area, where fish is sold, so that these insects will not be a nuisance, as they are now.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it has not been the ministry’s intention to address insects that are of no particular harm to human beings. Therefore, it is not our intention now to set up any particular destructive component in our services for human protection in the Eastern Province. I am sure the hon. Member will understand that we shall address any risk to humans and our record shows that we are doing that. I am glad to say that, at least, the hon. Member is assured that lice, which he was worried about, are no longer an issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I also commend the hon. Minister for that enlightening statement. These insects are not directly harmful to the human population, but they sting and when people scratch, that causes lesions on human bodies. So, in a way, they are harmful. Therefore, what advice can the hon. Minister give to people who are in the affected areas so that they get either some sprays or creams to avoid being bitten by these insects?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I actually said that those who are on site are advised to use insect repellents, which are commonly available.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I sit next to the hon. Member who asked the question that led to this ministerial statement and he confirmed that these insects are, indeed, a great nuisance. However, the hon. Minister does not want to kill them. Now, given the fact that the population we are talking about cannot even afford to buy insecticide, can the hon. Minister, at least, try to negotiate with his counterpart in the Ministry of Tourism and Arts so that if villagers are caught with fly-whisks defending themselves from these insects, they will not be arrested. That can be a minimum measure, since the hon. Minister does not want to kill them.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for that interesting question. I recall that two years ago, actually in October 2013, the hon. Member raised the question: Does size matter? I recall that his answer was that contrary to general belief, size does not matter…

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: … and I think that, perhaps, the hon. Member, in approaching this insect with a whisk, is, perhaps, approaching it with a rather drastic weapon…

Mr Muntanga laughed.

Dr Kasonde: … and it is not our wish to use lethal weapons …

Mr Muntanga: Ah!

Dr Kasonde: … for such a small issue which we can address. I certainly agree that we will discuss with our colleagues in tourism about making available these common repellents which I mentioned. I do not think we should take up a very drastic lethal war against these insects.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to assume that extensive literature review and other collaborative investigations were probably carried out on these insects. May I find out where else in the region these insects have been reported so that we can learn more from such information.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing out such an important issue. Yes, as far as review of literature is concerned, this, of course, is a basic requirement in any research. I have been given an assurance that extensive review or research was conducted and that, at least, at that point they did not have evidence of the existence of these particular insects across the country but I think we cannot leave that important question alone. We must go back to the scientists and insist that the matter is pursued beyond the area where they occurred. I think it is an important issue and it calls for scientific research which I support.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement. Hon. Minister, a few months ago, you gave a statement on elephantiasis filariasis and other diseases. You said that the infection can take place like today but the effects will be seen in many years to come. So, while we see these flies as being innocent and their bite as nothing to worry about, are you stationing some entomologists who should be doing a long-term study to find out the effects of the stings from these flies in the long term. Have you done that hon. Minister?

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member raises an issue of the period one must wait before declaring total innocence of any organism. I did say in my statement that the team that was set up to investigate and follow up the matter was composed of scientists from the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Ministry of Health. I did say that the intention of this team was to continue to monitor the effects of these insects for a long time. As of now, they have not found any but I think we must continue to monitor. I think I can rely on that team of scientists and health professionals to do just that.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig.-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. My position is that these insects are actually very annoying. As soon as one stops at Luangwa Bridge, especially if you are driving a white car…

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Brig. Gen. Dr Chituwo: … the windscreen is almost blacked out.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Brig. Gen. Dr Chituwo: Can the hon. Minister further clarify if, indeed, these insects are just a nuisance. Could there be some benefit that because of the ecology, they must have multiplied in millions? Could you, in the reports by our technocrats, find any indication of benefits from these millions of insects which, according to what you have stated, are just a nuisance?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Mumbwa raises a very interesting question. We must examine any culinary possibilities and other possible advantages that these insects might have. To date I do not have any information on any culinary potential but I say that in their monitoring and looking out, maybe, we should ask our scientists to also examine the possibility that there may be some advantages which we have not discovered yet. This is good science and a good scientist asking a question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

__________________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

NATIONAL SAVINGS AND CREDIT BANK IRREGULARITIES

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning:

(a)    whether the Government was aware of the financial irregularities at the National Savings and Credit Bank;

(b)    if so, what the nature of the financial irregularities were; and

(c)    what urgent measures the Government was taking to secure the savings of the customers and avert a recurrence of events that led to the closure of Lima Bank.

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President and the Ministry of Finance have not received any official notification regarding financial irregularities at the National Savings and Credit Bank.

Mr Speaker, in view of the answer in (a), the Government is unable to tell the nature of financial irregularities that may have occurred at the National Savings and Credit Bank.

Mr Speaker, in light of the above, the Government will send internal auditors to audit the National Savings and Credit Bank so as to verify the alleged financial irregularities at the bank.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that…

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this chance to raise my point of order.

Mr Speaker, I innocently asked a question to the hon. Minister of Health about those insects …

Mr Mbulakulima: Coming from where?

Mr Mbewe: … coming from Northern Province, in Kasama.

Mr Mbulakulima: Order, iwe!

Mr Mbewe: Is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing in order to write to me and threaten me that he will now send even more insects …

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: … to Eastern Province?

Is he in order, Sir?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Unless and until I read that note, I will reserve my ruling.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe laid the paper on the Table.

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, it is surprising that the Ministry of Finance and the Office of the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning have not received official communication in relation to the irregularities at the National Savings and Credit Bank. I would like to find out, in the midst of media reports and that the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is at the bank to try and find out the alleged irregularities, how these auditors are going there. Is it as a result of this question or where have they based their decision to send auditors to go and verify these alleged irregularities?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the audit has been necessitated by the fire that gutted the National Savings and Credit Bank offices and the need to come up with an informed and official report to collaborate with the efforts of the police and to recommend corrective measures to the Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, what are the auditors going to audit and how are they going to conduct their audit given that the documents were burnt?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the investigations will elaborate what has gone amiss. With modern technology, there are a number of ways of backing up information in a system.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, does a fire trigger an audit exercise?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, there are many ways that can lead to a fire.

Laughter

Mr Sichalwe: Yes, the cause of the fire could have been internally triggered in which case there would be need to investigate and come ...

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Sichalwe: ...up with an official report.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, do not speak whilst you are seated. It is only last week that we were addressing the issue of debating in your seats.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I would like find out from the hon. Minister when the institution was last audited.

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, this is a new question. The hon. Member should file in a question and we will come with details.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Government has not been officially informed. Common sense dictates that the Government, which is the shareholder, should have asked the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) to give a report when it learnt of the fire. Did the Government do this? If it did, what was the response of the CEO?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, this is why investigations are being carried out by our law enforcers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwembeshi asked a very straight forward question: “Does a fire trigger an audit?” The answer was something else. Could we get a relevant answer from the hon. Minister.

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, it does.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

HAZARDOUS COPPER CONCENTRATES

201. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a)    whether the hazardous copper concentrates with high arsenic content which had been imported from Chile by Konkola Copper Mines had been exported back;

(b)    if not, why, and where the copper concentrates were stored; and

(c)    if so, what proof was available to show that the concentrates were exported back.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the export of the hazardous copper concentrates with high arsenic content which had been imported from Chile by the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) plc has commenced. The said concentrate has 3.37 per cent arsenic content, which level is higher than the arsenic levels in the local ores. The local arsenic levels are less than 1 per cent, an average of about 0.1 per cent.

Sir, as of 27th November, 2015, a total of 1,529.63 tonnes had moved out of KCM premises of which 1,088.402 tonnes has crossed the Chirundu Border out of Zambia. The remaining 441.223 tonnes from the 1,529.63 tonnes that has left the KCM premises is at Chirundu Border awaiting customs clearance.

Mr Speaker, all the copper concentrates will be exported back by 10th December, 2015. As mentioned above, the export of the hazardous copper concentrates with high arsenic content has commenced. The concentrate which is still in the country is being stored at the KCM premises. Due to the nature of the material, it had to be stored in the same area in order to avoid contamination of other areas. It is important to note that the consignment which is still in the country is being closely monitored by the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA).

As regards proof of export of the hazardous copper concentrate, the Government has in possession copies of relevant documents received as of 30th November, 2015. These include the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) exit documents, KCM Commercial Invoices, Road Development Agency (RDA) weighbridge printout, loading list from KCM in Chingola and documents from the clearing agent listing the trucks carrying concentrates that have been thus cleared, which I will lay on the Table.

Mr Speaker, in addition, ZEMA is currently undertaking physical inspections to confirm that the material is being exported, including the associated documents.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Before we proceed, I have had the occasion to read the note from Hon. Kampyongo. It contains a conditional threat that those insects will only be increased if they are not eaten by 10th December, 2015.

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the efforts made to ensure that the hazardous concentrates are taken out of the country. I would like to know what penalty has been meted out against KCM considering that it is always a problematic company. It pollutes water and now has brought hazardous copper concentrates. It is always at the centre of controversy. What is the penalty especially that it has even laid off our people?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you can ignore the latter comment.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has lost money as a result of importing those materials. So, we think that loss is punitive enough for the company.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, has the Government established how the hazardous copper concentrates were allowed to come into the country in the first place?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, yes, that has been established. What happened is that KCM was allowed to import the materials by the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. The Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection came to know about this when the company applied for a processing licence from our ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development should be the one to give us the reasons why the hazardous copper concentrates were allowed into the country. Soils are being dumped in the Southern Province. I am worried that if this hazardous copper concentrate is dumped in Zambia, we will have problems. Is there a measure that has been put in place to ensure that companies do not import things from other countries without proper authority?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, there are measures which we have taken to avoid this in the future. The Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) has been monitoring the movement of the hazardous copper concentrates from KCM up to the border. We do not know what will happen to that material after that.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hazardous copper concentrates have been in the public domain for a long time now. Can the hon. Minister tell the nation why there has been this delay in exporting them back to Chile.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Ms Ng’imbu): Mr Speaker, the delay has come about because Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) applied to extend the period in which to send back the materials because they are still meeting other obligations, such as payments to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and so on. That is the reason we extended the deadline to 10th December, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned a number of export documents which have to be issued in order to make sure that these hazardous copper concentrates are exported out of the country. Who else is going to look at these export documents to ensure that these hazardous copper concentrates are exported out of the country?

Ms Ng’imbu: Mr Speaker, I have the documents with me. May I be allowed to submit them?

Interruptions

Ms Ng’imbu laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you have not answered the question. The question is: Who else, other than the relevant ministry, will look at the export documents?

Ms Ng’imbu: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, through the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), is the relevant authority which is supposed to look at those export documents. The Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) will also look at them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the copper concentrates are hazardous. This means that the lives of our people are at risk. Why has the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection found it prudent to delay the disposal of these items which are a danger to the lives of our people? One would have thought that the disposal of these items should have taken priority. Hon. Minister, tell us the position of your ministry over the delay to dispose of the hazardous copper concentrates.

Ms Ng’imbu: Mr Speaker, the initial deadline, which KCM was given by ZEMA, in which to export the hazardous copper concentrates back to the country of origin was 15th November, 2015. However, KCM requested for an extension to enable it to deal with customs clearance and other legal obligations. Therefore, there is no delay. We simply extended the deadline to 10th December, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, in his response to a question asked by one of the hon. Members of Parliament, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection was not aware that the Ministry of Mines  ...

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions
 
Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources, and Environmental Protection in order to continue delaying the removal of these dangerous items from the country? There is no guarantee that these hazardous concentrates will be exported out of Zambia. Sometimes, these things are dumped on the side of the roads. Is the Government in order to delay the disposal of things which are dangerous to human beings?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Muntanga, the problem is that that is not a point of order. You should have just asked somebody else to ask that question.

Hon. Member for Chavuma may continue.

Laughter

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I was saying that the hon. Deputy Minister of the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection stated that the ministry was not aware that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development had allowed the importation of hazardous substances. However, should the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection , through the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), not be one of the agents which should inspect and verify that the products which are imported into the country are not hazardous? The ministry is now reacting to this issue, when it should have been proactive to ensure that hazardous products are not imported into the country, in the first place.

Ms Ng’imbu: Mr Speaker, the reason the hazardous copper concentrates are going to find themselves out of the country is that we are a responsible Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Ng’imbu: That is what the hon. Member should know. We are monitoring these substances twenty-four hours daily to ensure that this country is not contaminated. We took a bold decision to ensure that those hazardous copper concentrates are sent back to the country of origin. That is a decision which has to be appreciated, hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, the question is: Why did the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) not take a proactive step to prevent this from happening in the first place?

Ms Ng’imbu: Mr Speaker, I explained that the ministry came to learn about this issue when KCM came to ask for a processing licence, and we stopped the company from going ahead there and then.

I thank you, Sir.

RETRENCHED MOPANI EMPLOYEES

202. Mr Namulambe asked the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning:

(a)    what the total number of employees retrenched by Mopani Copper Mines, Plc, between 1st January, 2015 and 20th November, 2015 was;

(b)    what the outcome of the negotiations held between the mine owners and the unions, over the retrenchment exercise was; and

(c)    whether the Government was satisfied with the outcome of the negotiations.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning’s Office (Mr Bwalya): Mr Speaker, Mopani Copper Mines, Plc, retrenched 2,989 employees between 1st January, 2015 and 20th November, 2015.

Initially, Mopani Copper Mines, Plc, notified the Government of its intention to retrench 3,200 employees by 21st November, 2015. The Government engaged the mine owners and the trade unions to come up with measures to avert the job losses. In the discussions, the Government was consistent that all the jobs be reserved.

The two parties, that is, the mine owners and the trade unions, were urged to consider the various options of saving jobs such as job sharing, reducing on overtime, retirement and redeployment of affected employees to other needy areas. Further, negotiations resulted into a reduced number of retrenchments of 2,989 from the initial 3,200.

Mr Speaker, the desirable situation for the Government is that of no job losses at all. However, under the current economic circumstances, and given the global economic situation, it is the Government’s considered view that the parties tried their best.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am not very clear on why the Government has expressed satisfaction on the outcome of the negotiations. There are reports of people complaining about loans that they have running with banks and how all their packages will go towards servicing those loans and how they will remain with nothing in the end.

Hon. Minister, are you happy that such a thing happened abruptly, despite the world economic crunch that you referred to. How are you satisfied when people are still complaining?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, we are not happy that jobs have been lost and that certain individuals had undertaken certain obligations with banks. However, I think that the Government has put in place a number of interventions to protect and, indeed, and give some relief to the miners who are affected in this particular retrenchment. Even the Press Aide to the President indicated that the banks will waive certain debts that these retrenched miners have with them.

Further, various ministries such as the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection are looking for land so that these people can start all over again. Sir, these measures are being taken and we are trying our level best to ensure that a meaningful life is given to those retrenched.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, one report that indicated that some of the miners are not satisfied with being given land because, according to them, they are miners and not farmers. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures are being taken to revive jobs in the mining sector.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, indeed, not everyone is a farmer and not everyone is a miner. The Government is, however, trying to make available land so that people can venture into other areas other than what they are specialised in.

Secondly, it is a means of survival for those who want to survive because they need to have something to lay their hands on. As to whether we are happy with the outcome of the negotiations as a Government, yes we are, as we have already stated. This is the more reason His Excellency spent quite some time on the Copperbelt to try and liaise with the owners of the mines and the trade unions to see how best to go round the problem.

For engineers and accountants, who still want White Collar jobs, avenues are still available and we hope that we can create more jobs for them. I think that with the goodwill from us and our co-operating partners, we can create more jobs so that engineers and accountants continue to survive with their qualifications.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that some relief will be given to the retrenched miners. I would like to find out what kind of relief he is referring to. If the relief is the land he talked about, where, on the Copperbelt, is there enough land to give to 2,898 people? Also, do you have enough equipment for them to manage farming?  

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, there will be tax relief on terminal benefits. They will not pay what they were expected to pay in terms of tax. Various banks have also been engaged and they have stated, categorically, that they will write off what the retrenched workers owe them.

With regards to land on the Copperbelt, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection is handling this matter to ensure that land is found. Once this happens, those retrenched will be informed about the location.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, any job loss is catastrophic for any family.

Hon. Minister, farming is not some casual thing that can be undertaken by anyone. Before the resettlement of these people, can the Government not offer training in various types farming, as a prerequisite?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, this is a good suggestion. I understand that Luswishi Farm Block in Lufwanyama is being considered as one of the options for the resettlement of the retrenched workers. I am just trying to clarify the location issue raised by the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

Mr Speaker, training is a good suggestion and it can be done. Given the presence of Future Search, it is something that we can consider. We will engage Future Search to approach the miners and see if they can offer them some kind of training so that they resettle in this land with a bit of knowledge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, it is sad that some miners are losing their jobs. Does the hon. Minister not consider this loss of employment on the Copperbelt as political suicide for his party?
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mr Ng’onga: This is a serious issue!
Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, it is not political suicide. The people that are affected realise that it is not deliberate and the job losses are not instigated by the Government or the party in power, but it was precipitated by a number of factors which I believe the Zambian people understand. Some of these factors include the fall of copper prices on the international market and the deficit in the power sector which is not the making of the PF but is due to a natural calamity. There are a number of factors which are at play that have brought us to this level and it is a very sad situation, indeed.

Mr Mwila: Chapwa, mudala.

Mr Bwalya: Otherwise, the Zambian people understand that this Government is trying everything possible to protect the jobs of every Zambian.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

REHABILITATION OF FEEDER ROADS

203.    Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Defence when the Zambia National Service would commence the rehabilitation of feeder roads in Milenge District.

The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, it is Government policy for the Zambian National Service (ZNS) to construct primary feeder roads in all districts, nationwide. However, the available equipment and apparatus can only cater, on average, for three projects per province at any given time. Works in Milenge District will commence once the roads in the district appear on the priority list which is to be submitted by the provincial administration to the ZNS for execution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Minister should have given a better answer because all he has said is known. I submitted the proposed roads through hon. Members of Parliament and that is why I was asking when you, as implementers, will move on the ground because roads have already been identified and the equipment is already in the provinces. When, specifically, will they move on site?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the equipment is already in Luapula Province and Hon. Mbulakulima is aware that that equipment is already committed in two districts which are Chienge and Bahati where they are carrying out works. In fact, they have already moved into the district as regards to the works that they are carrying out. After they finish what they are doing in those two districts, we hope that this equipment will be relocated to go and work in other districts, including Milenge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: We will have Ikeleng’i, Kasempa, Nalikwanda and then we will close with Chipata.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: It was Ikeleng’i and then Kasempa.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, how ready are you to finance this programme which has shifted from the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) to the Zambia National Service (ZNS) considering that the country is facing serious financial difficulties? Do you have the capacity to go to Milenge and do the job?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the roads we are talking about are primary feeder roads which need bush clearing, formatting, gravelling and compacting. The costs are minimal compared to bituminous standard roads. In terms of capacity, the Government has a robust plan to ensure that we carry out these works. We have given ourselves a plan of four years to complete about 10,000 km of feeder roads countrywide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister used the word ‘hope’. Why is he using the word ‘hope’? Is he not sure that they will move to Milenge? If he is sure then why is it that he cannot state that they will move to Milenge because the money available?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, there are factors that made me use the word ‘hope’ some of which are that machines need repair and sometimes works are not completed on time. Those are some factors that might delay the start of the projects in Milenge, but I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we will do the works in his constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, it is very well known that we do not have a national transport policy and it is only now that the World Bank is assisting the Government to come up with one. The hon. Minister mentioned that they have a four-year plan in which they plan to do 10,000 km of feeder roads. Can we have that plan so that we are all informed as to when that plan will be implemented in our respective constituencies?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I could not agree with you more. What you have stated is true and we will avail that plan to you soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, the answer that the hon. Minister gave to the original question was a bit open-ended.

Sir, could the hon. Minister give an indication as to when he will move to Hon. Mbulakulima’s constituency so that he can tell his constituents when they can expect activity.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, perhaps, let me try and elaborate on the procedure. The provincial administration comes up with priority roads in the province and they submit three roads to our ministry. Which three roads will be done is not the business of the ministry as that is a local arrangement at the provincial level. In this case, Hon. Mbulakulima has submitted a road to the provincial administration.

The ministry will, therefore, finance those roads once the priority list is submitted. It is up to the Provincial Administration which includes the Minister, the Permanent Secretary (PS) and the local communities to take up the responsibility of constructing these roads. It starts at constituency level, from the council, the Office of the District Commissioner (DC) up to the provincial level. What we are saying is that we were told to work on two roads and this is exactly what we are doing. We are going to work on the roads in the hon. Member’s constituency immediately we receive the priority roads.

I thank you, Sir.

GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MBUNDA PEOPLE

204. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:
(a)    why the Government was not represented at the installation ceremony of Chief Mwenemundu of the Mbunda-speaking people in Kalabo District, which took place on 20th September, 2015;

(b)    what the relationship between the Mbunda people in Liuwa and the Government was; and

(c)    what measures the Government was taking to improve the relationship to enhance development in the area.
The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, there is no gazetted chiefdom in Zambia called Mwenemundu of the Mbunda-speaking people in Kalabo District. Therefore, the Government does not attend installation ceremonies of ungazetted chiefs.
 
Sir, as far as the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is concerned, the relationship between the Mbunda people in Liuwa and the Government is as cordial as it is with any other tribe in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the position of the Government regarding the development agenda is to take sustainable development to all parts of the country, including Liuwa.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Sir, I appreciate the response that has been given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mutelo: The son of the Mbunda people!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, this is not the first time the Mbunda-speaking people have held an installation ceremony in Liuwa. They have done that several times and the Government has always attended and even contributed towards these ceremonies. During the 2015 installation ceremony, the Government was not represented. If the hon. Minister is saying that there is no need for the Government to attend that ceremony because the chief is not gazetted, does he realise the co-existence between the Mbunda-speaking people of Liuwa and the Government?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, we do respect all the seventy-two tribes in this country, including the Mbunda-speaking people. What I meant was that the Government does not attend installation ceremonies of chiefs who are not gazetted. The local authorities can be invited in their individual capacities and they can contribute to those ceremonies but that does not mean they are representing the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the Government policy is that if a chief is not gazetted, the Government will not attend the traditional ceremony of that particular chief. Correct me if I am wrong. However, in the interest of promoting harmony, togetherness and unity, is there a possibility that the Government will change these policies so that it encompasses …

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, before we went on break, I was asking the hon. Minister to confirm whether attendance to cultural events was limited only to gazetted chiefs and if that was so, if the Government was considering changing this policy so that it encompasses the ungazetted chiefs because they are part and parcel of our community.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, this ceremony is called an “installation ceremony.” Installation of a chief is purely traditional and it is handled competently by the royal establishment. Sometimes, they may extend an invitation to the Government officials in their individual capacity just to witness. I would like the hon. Member of Parliament to know that there are actually thousands of sub-chiefs whom we, as the Government, do appreciate as our leaders. For us to go and attend each and every ceremony would be very expensive and fiscally not possible. We do recognise these chiefs as long as they are recognised by the substantive gazetted chiefs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister just informed the nation that there are thousands of chiefs. Could he be precise so that the nation is not misled that we have thousands of chiefs in Zambia.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, there are chiefs who were degazetted a long time ago and chiefdoms which were abolished, but they are recognised by their subjects and we do not stop them from paying homage to those chiefs.

Dr Kaingu: I am here!

Dr Katema: However, this Government cannot attend all the ceremonies which are carried out by the many chiefs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: The question was: Does the number of sub-chiefs run in thousands?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, there are many chiefs, but I cannot give the exact number off-the- cuff. However, if a substantive question is asked and a research is done from the time Zambians started immigrating into this country, they can reach that number.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Which number?

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this issue has been brought up in this House a number of times. Could it be that the Government fears to recognise these chiefs because of the cost involved for their welfare? If that is the case, can they not share the costs with the current ones so that we can resolve this issue once and for all?

Mr Speaker: Which sub-chief are you referring to Hon. Muchima?

Hon. Opposition Members: Mwenemundu!

Mr Muchima: Mwenemundu.

Laughter

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, Chief Mwenemundu falls under the District Chief Bwanjinkana and, subsequently, under the Litunga. It is the prerogative of the Litunga to appoint a chief to be gazetted.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, we have several ceremonies in Zambia, but my understanding is that the Government only participates in traditional ceremonies. If an installation ceremony is performed by a recognised chief, is it Government policy to send representatives to that ceremony? Related to that, does the hon. Minister or anybody who represents the Government in that district such as, for example, the District Commissioner, hon. Member of Parliament or Council Chairman, attend that ceremony?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I mentioned from the outset that the installation of a chief is purely a traditional matter which, if the royal establishment so wishes, can extend an invitation to any Government representative at any level to attend the ceremony. However, it does not take away anything from that installation if there is no representation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

________
 
BILL

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read for the third time and passed:

The Gender Equity and Equality Bill, 2015.

________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

VOTE 88− (Muchinga Province – K50,625,853), VOTE 90 – (Lusaka Province – K60,533,931), VOTE 91 – (Copperbelt Province – K68,773,031), VOTE 92 – (Central Province – K64,656,749), VOTE 93 – (Northern Province – K63,924,668), VOTE 94 – (Western Province  – K69,401,741), VOTE 95 – (Eastern Province – K61,063,176), VOTE 96 – (Luapula Province – 60,771,073), VOTE 97 – (North-Western Province – K59,303,719) and VOTE 98 – (Southern Province – K80,642,037).

(Consideration resumed)

The Chairperson: Before Hon. Mwamba continues with his debate, out of ten provinces, the Eastern and Lusaka provinces have had no person debating from their end. For the rest of the provinces, we have had one or two people debate on them. So, with that update, I hope that hon. Members from the two provinces will be ready to debate.

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, before the House adjourned on Friday, last week, I was commending the Government of the Patriotic Front (PF) …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwamba: … for the development that it has taken to the Northern Province. As a province, we are very happy for what this Government has done so far.

Sir, actually, I had catalogued a number of roads that the Government has worked on and is still working on. Some of the roads that I had mentioned are the Mporokoso/ Kasama, Luwingu/Mansa, Kasama/Mbesuma, Mbala/Nakonde and many others.

Mr Chairperson, one hon. Member wanted to know if there was anything that was happening in Lubansenshi Constituency. I want to inform the House that the feeder roads are currently being constructed by the Zambia National Service (ZNS). Once completed, these roads are going to improve the lives of the people in this constituency.  I am, therefore, very proud for this Government’s response to the call of the people of Lubansenshi.

Sir, I do not want to live in denial by not recognising what this Government is doing in my constituency.  I want to create a picture of what is happening in my constituency and bring it out that, at least, this Government is doing something.

Mr Chairperson, since I still have a few minutes before my time is up, I want to say that the Northern Province was a very big province before Muchinga was created, but the share that we were getting then from the then Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government was the same share that Lusaka Province was getting. Lusaka was a much smaller province when compared to the then Northern Province. Due to the insufficient allocation that we were getting, it never used to make an impact on anything that we did in the province. The combination of the Northern and Muchinga provinces was like a country.  It is for this reason that I would like to thank the late President for taking a bold decision to declare Muchinga as a province. This has given us an advantage in that we are now able to develop as a province because it is a smaller area. However, because of the gaps that were left by the MMD, the province has certain areas like schools and other infrastructure which have not benefited and still need attention. However, due to meagre resources and the gaps which were created by the MMD Government, it has been very difficult for the PF Government to fill those gaps up in four years. I hope that when the PF bounces back to power next year, we will be able to fill up the gaps that were left by the MMD Government after ruling for twenty years. I am sure that we are coming back.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the vote for the Eastern Province.

Sir, I want to start my debate by thanking the PF Government under the leadership of His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for ensuring that the people of the Eastern Province also witness a number of developmental projects.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr W. Banda: Sir, the PF Government has prioritised the interest of the people in this province. What I am discussing is something that the people from this province can attest to.  Before I go into detail, I want to talk about a very big project that the Government is still doing, which is the mighty Great East Road.

 Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 Mr W. Banda: Sir, anyone who has driven on this road would appreciate what this Government is doing.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr W. Banda: Mr Chairperson, apart from being graded, the Great East Road is also being tarred into a road that one would always admire. This road has been like this without being attended to, but this Government has tried to make sure that the rehabilitation of the road comes to completion.  The people of the Eastern Province will agree with what I am saying if they are listening to my debate. When somebody does a nice thing, it is just moral to appreciate and, therefore, we want to appreciate and thank this Government for ensuring that this road is being worked on. It is not only this road which is being worked on. There is also the Chipata/Lundazi Road.

Sir, I am sure, even the hon. Member for Lundazi would also agree with me that this road was very bad.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr W. Banda: Sir, anyone who travels to Lundazi by road will enjoy their drive.  As if that is not enough, the Chipata /Mambwe Road is another project that this Government has worked on. Therefore, the people of the Eastern Province are saying thank you for a job well done.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr W. Banda: Mr Chairperson, the development does not come on its own, but because of the good leadership that we have in the province.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

MR W. Banda. Sir, it is for this reason that I want to thank the President for appointing upright people to lead our province. Apart from that, we also have a very big project which is being undertaken on the Vubwi/Chipata Road. This road was neglected for a long time, but this time around, things are moving. Come next year, this road will be completed. This is not the only road which is under construction. There is also the Chadiza/Chipata Road which is being worked upon as I am speaking. This is what the people of the Eastern Province were calling for.

Mr Chairperson, let me now also come my own constituency, Milanzi, which has also witnessed many developmental projects that this Government has helped me develop. An example of a road graded by the PF Government is the Mwandafisi Road. Apart from this road, there is also a wonderful bridge which was constructed by this Government. Other roads which were graded are Walilanji, Katawa, Kogoro and so many other roads.

Sir, I also want to talk about other developmental projects that have been done in my constituency apart from the roads. We have witnessed a number of community schools that have been upgraded to primary schools. This is very good for our people. I, therefore, want to mention and bring it to the attention of the House that my constituents are very happy because the long distances that the children used to cover to and from school have been reduced. It has become easy for our people to access education within the shortest possible time and distance in the constituency.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about other developments in Katete District. The PF Government is constructing a dam in the district. Ever since, Katete has had no dam. As I am speaking, the construction of this dam is underway and, shortly, our people will be drawing water from the taps, which is a very good gesture for our people.

 Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Sir, in Katete, we also have another important project that the Government is trying to help us with, which is the construction of township roads. Initially, the contractor was a bit disappointing, but after we talked to the relevant authorities in the Government, there has been a lot of progress. Right now, I am confident that this project will be completed by January, 2016.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr W. Banda: Sir, there are so many developmental projects that I can talk about in the Eastern Province. Let me also talk about the things that I would like the Government to help us with in Katete District. I want to request the Government to ensure that one of the oldest schools in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency, where my colleague, Hon. Phiri, comes from, is also connected to the national grid. This is Chisale Day Secondary School. The hon. Minister of General Education is aware of the state of this school. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the Government to electrify this school. Further, I would also like to appeal to the Government to work on the road leading to Paramount Chief Gawa Undi’s Palace from the Great East Road. That is a gravel road and so we would be grateful if it was improved. I am pretty sure that this Government will listen to our request and upgrade this road to bituminous standard.

Mr Chairperson, most of the roads in various constituencies in the Eastern Province are in a bad state. So, I am requesting the Government to grade these roads, especially those leading to primary schools. That way, people will appreciate the good works being carried out by the Government.

Sir, the last point that I want to make concerns dams in the province. I want to inform the Government that the Eastern Province has very few dams. However, we are pleased with the announcement by the hon. Minister of Agriculture that the Government has embarked on a programme to construct dams and that the Eastern Province will also benefit from this programme. That is a welcome development and the people have already started appreciating the efforts of the Government.

Mr Chairperson, the people of the Eastern Province are listening to what I am saying. I am talking about something they can see. In the Eastern Province, when somebody helps us, we also help them.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr W. Banda: Sir, we help those who help us so that we get blessed. I do not want to talk much. I just want to appreciate you for giving me this chance to contribute to this Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity to say one or two words on the Vote for Lusaka Province. From the outset, I want to say that although the money allocated to Lusaka Province is not enough, I support this Vote.

Sir, let me begin by congratulating my hon. Deputy Minister there (pointing at Hon. Mwaliteta), Mr Mwale who was recently appointed Permanent Secretary and the Deputy Permanent Secretary, Mr Mwakalombe, who has just returned from the Foreign Service.

Mr Chairperson, I am of the view that this team will move the country forward and transform the province, especially the rural setting where I belong. I have surely seen a big change since my brother, Hon. Mwaliteta, came through. I also saw a lot of good under the administration of Hon. Sikazwe. This change that I am talking about is in the sense that the other hon. Ministers who occupied these offices in the past really persecuted some of us. In the past, no meetings were held, and if there were any, I was never invited. For instance, there would be a traditional ceremony taking place in my constituency and even when I attended, I would not be given an opportunity to greet the people who voted me into office. That is how harsh they are.

Sir, my advice is that we should all bear in mind the fact that we are in these positions because of the people who voted for us. So, we should remember that even if we are in these offices today, we may not occupy the same office tomorrow.

Mr Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I have a number of issues to raise. The first one relates to the 650 health posts that the Government intends to construct. This is an old issue. During Mrs Kapulu’s reign, we were, as a constituency, written to and informed that we had been allocated eleven health posts. So, as a district, we sat down and allocated these health posts to those hard-to-reach areas. Those places included Itope, Kabulashi, Kamwesha and so on and so forth. When it came to the actual implementation, we were only given two from the initial eleven health posts. This is an issue that I have frantically been talking to hon. Ministers about. I have also talked to the Provincial Director of Health to find out where the remaining nine health posts have gone.

Sir, to help you understand the set-up of Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency, I want to say that we have rural health centres along the road. So, the problem of accessing health care is in the far-flung areas. Rufunsa is one constituency where you see people still carrying patients on man-made stretchers. We have tried to construct some health centres using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Unfortunately, some of these centres have not yet been opened. So, I am appealing to the Provincial Deputy Minister to look at the number of health centres we have and ensure that they are opened without any further delay.

Mr Chairperson, the second issue that I want to talk about is the Kanyoja Bridge which connects Shikabeta to Mkushi. Sometime back, I asked a question pertaining to that bridge, and I was assured, on the Floor of this House, that this bridge was going to be repaired. Unfortunately, it still has not been repaired, and we are already in the rainy season. This bridge will be washed away. If that happens, our people will not be able to cross over into Shikabeta Chiefdom. They will also not manage to go to Mbosha in Mkushi. People from Mkushi, Mbosha, Chembe and other chiefdoms come to Shikabeta, which is in my constituency, when seeking services such as health and education. So, if this bridge is not taken care of, I am afraid that we will have a disaster.

Sir, on the grading of roads, we appreciate that out of seven districts, ours was the first to receive earth-moving equipment. However, since the equipment was taken to the district, it is just parked due to lack of fuel.

We have had meetings with the District Commissioner (DC), Council Chairperson, Zambia National Service (ZNS) and many other stakeholders, but nobody seems to know when and where the fuel will come from so that the grading of roads in the area can continue.

Mr Chairperson, a road that urgently requires grading, and I hope the hon. Deputy Minister for Lusaka Province will take note of this, is the Shikabeta/Chomba Road along the Lunsemfwa River in the Luano Valley. The Luano Valley is a very difficult area to go to. I, however, commend my brother here, Hon. Lungwangwa, for constructing excellent infrastructure in the area when he was the hon. Minister responsible for education. Construction of the Shikabeta/Chomba Road will promote tourism in the area because the road passes through a Game Management Area (GMA). If that happens, I am sure the people who left the area due to economic hardships will go back.

Mr Chairperson, my next point is on the appointment of the new DC for Rufunsa. I must be very honest here and state that the outgoing DC really persecuted me.

Mr Pande: Sure?

Mr Chipungu: Yes. This is the reason hon. Members, especially those on this side, have often indicated that those who are appointed as DCs should be educated so that they conduct themselves professionally. I have worked as a DC before and know how I performed. Therefore, as the Rufunsa DC’s contract comes to an end, I earnestly appeal to the Government to appoint the person we have recommended. This is a person who comes from Rufunsa. I think it will be a bad idea to appoint somebody who does not come from the area. If that happens, we might have problems amongst our people when we go for general elections next year.

Mr Chairperson, an issue that I always talk about is the need to relocate the provincial capital for Lusaka or, indeed, split the province. It is sometimes misleading and confusing because we do not know whether we are in Lusaka Province. We are always overshadowed. I have been lucky to serve as the provincial hon. Minister for provinces like the North-Western. I know that the real administrative functions and development are fostered by the provincial administration. Therefore, I think it is a problem for rural areas like Rufunsa to continue being part of Lusaka Province because we are overshadowed by urban areas. Once again, I am appealing to the Government to consider relocating the provincial capital to Chongwe, Rufunsa or Luangwa so that the rural areas get the relevant administrative services they require.

Mr Chairperson, my next point is on the connectivity of the mobile phone network. I have been receiving calls about Shikabeta, which is one of the remotest parts of this country and, indeed, of my constituency. I have been told that the communication tower that was constructed in Shikabeta has collapsed. This means that phone calls to and from the area are not going through. I do not know what exactly caused the tower to collapse, but I am sure the hon. Deputy Minister for Lusaka Province will help me take care of this problem.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) has been given instructions to consider connecting the entire constituency to the national mobile network. At the moment, the network is only available along the main road and within the 10 km radius of the communication tower. When you go into far-flung areas, however, the network signal is lost. I am sure you will agree with me that almost everybody now owns a mobile phone. Therefore, people want to communicate with their relations around the country at any given time.

Mr Chairperson, let me now come to my last point. This may sound very funny, but I once again want to point out that there are so many traffic accidents along the Great East Road, especially between Chongwe and the Luangwa Bridge. I was informed this morning that there was an accident last week in which about three people died. There are accidents along this road almost on a weekly basis. The simple reason for this is careless and drunken driving. Why should this be the case when we have law enforcement officers such as the police and Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA)?

Therefore, I recommend that there should be highway patrols on the Great East Road, especially between Chongwe and the Luangwa Bridge. The Government must also consider constructing by-pass roads in areas that are prone to accidents. For instance, there is the Kaputi area, where buses and trucks overturn almost on a weekly basis, and Manenekela. I think road construction has now become very scientific. I am sure our colleagues in the road construction sector, especially the Chinese, are able to do something in such bad areas in order to save the lives of our people.

Mr Chairperson, just like my colleague from Milanzi indicated, I also think there is need to resurface the road between Chongwe and the Luangwa Bridge. At the moment, the surface on this stretch is uneven and has so many potholes. Further, there are no warning signs along the road. Therefore, drivers that overspeed are unable to read that they are now approaching a danger zone. Subsequently, they overturn. I think this is a big problem for us in Rufunsa.

Mr Chairperson, what makes the situation worse is that there is only one hospital in the area - Mpanshya Mission Hospital.  Whenever there is an accident, all the victims have to be taken to this one hospital. So, you can imagine how difficult it is to handle a situation where a bus carrying about seventy people overturns. We also have a problem with finding transport to ferry the injured to the hospital. Therefore, I am appealing to my colleagues in the Executive, especially the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, to, maybe, designate a minibus specifically for accidents in the area. This bus can act as an ambulance for accident victims so that we avoid the death of those that die due to lack of transport to the hospital.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I want to thank you.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the Vote for Lusaka Province, I want to start by stating that it is clear that almost all the ministries have a raw deal in terms of resource allocations in the 2016 Budget and Lusaka Province is not an exception. What is more worrying is that most of the money that has been allocated to Lusaka Province will be spent in urban areas like Lusaka City. So, the rural parts of the province will really have a difficult time next year.

Mr Chairperson, I will just touch on a few issues. In particular, I will mostly refer to Chongwe District, which has a number of challenges that still need to be addressed. One of the greatest difficulties this country is facing now is unemployment. In Chongwe, people depend on agriculture for their livelihood. As we are all aware, the Government is implementing the e-voucher system under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and Chongwe is one of the districts that this system is being piloted in. The e-voucher system is meant to help reduce the number of fraudulent activities in implementing FISP such as ghost farmers and so on and so forth.

Unfortunately, what we have seen in Chongwe District, when the Government is implementing the e-voucher system, is that the number of farmers that benefited from FISP this year has reduced. This is a negative development.

Mr Chairperson, when you are implementing a new programme, it is always better for the people to see change. Although people do not take change easily, if you make the programme better than the previous one, people tend to accept the change with both hands. Unfortunately, for the e-voucher system in Chongwe, the number of farmers that have benefited now is less than the number of farmers who managed to get Government support under FISP last season. So, you have, for example, in a particular area, like Kasenga or Kapochi Co-operative, last year, 400 farmers benefited from FISP but, this year, only 300 farmers will benefit. This is the situation in almost all areas of Chongwe. There is no area where the same number of farmers who benefited last season is the same this year. There is a reduction in the number of beneficiaries in all areas. The people of Chongwe are now crying because of the reduced number of beneficiaries. They feel this e-voucher system is not good for them because of the reduced number of beneficiaries. So, we expect hunger in some families that have not benefited in the Farmer Input Support Programme.

Mr Chairperson, the other point relating to this e-voucher system which has been adopted by the Government, well meaning as it may be, in the past, whilst some co-operatives were able to get inputs from depots within their communities, they are now told that you cannot get inputs from this depot. You will have to go three or four kilometres away to collect your inputs. If there is a new system, people will be happy to say, now, this is a new system - we used to collect inputs from three kilometres away and, this time, we have brought the inputs to your door steps. Distributing inputs from very far away is already a disadvantage for the people of Chongwe and the farmers are crying.

Mr Chairperson, the other point that has become a hindrance is that the price of inputs was meant to be within the allocated amounts of money but you will find that, in some instances, the price of inputs is higher than what the Government intended. What is worse for Chongwe is that even as I speak now, seed is not available. When we ask the officers on the ground what the situation is like, the answers we get are not inspiring. It clearly looks like farmers will have to start finding their own alternative for seed and yet that information was not very clear.

Mr Chairperson, I see a situation where, come next year, Chongwe will have reduced maize production and hunger levels will increase. I am very worried about that because, for us in Chongwe, there is nothing else people do apart from farming. The quantity of inputs that have been allocated has reduced from what was given last year. It is not too late. I am making an appeal to the Government to reconsider allocating even the same amount of inputs that were given last season. By reducing the amount of inputs, you are not helping the situation. You are making those people become poorer.

Mr Chairperson, I must say a number of schools have been extended and expanded. Generally, if one had visited Chongwe ten years ago, they would now see that there is general improvement in the whole area of education and health care due to a number of health posts that have been built in the last two decades. I think the issue at hand now is the quality of service delivery in our health centres.

Mr Chairperson, everyday, we have people dying in Chongwe. Previously, we never experienced the deaths that we are currently experiencing. People are dying in numbers and it is becoming very worrying. One of the reasons is that of high poverty levels. Chongwe used to be the first or second highest productive area in the whole country. It is no longer the same because of poor implementation of Government programmes in the district. You will find that in the health service, instead of improving, the quality of service delivery is going down.

Mr Chairperson, there is a culture of people not caring to do their work in an efficient way. Just this morning, one young lady came to me crying that people are dying in Chongwe because there is no health care delivery service. People do not care and there are no medicines in our clinics. Those are the kinds of stories we are getting. Sometimes, officers are not going for work on time. I personally have tried to intervene by reporting to the relevant authorities and checking on the ground to ensure that the reports we are getting from the community are counter checked. We have found that what the members of the community are telling us about the poor health care delivery service by some of our health attendants is worrying. I would like to appeal to the relevant authorities in the Ministry of Health to take keen interest in the manner service delivery is being implemented.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I wanted to look at is in the area of education. In particular, I want to raise the issue of the Palabana University. You will recall what President Sata said, in his announcement on Palabana, in responding to what the people had asked him. He said it was one of the election promises to upgrade Chalimbana and Palabana colleges into universities. Those two policies were ably articulated but what has happened now, as it relates to Palabana, is that, the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Higher Education need to look at this issue. What is happening now is that Palabana is almost being shifted to Mazabuka. Why is this so? It is because the new policy which has come into effect says that since we are building a university, this college is being transferred to another one in Mazabuka. The lecturers, management and the people …

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Mrs Masebo: …have cried foul that you cannot move us from a place which is better to a place where there is no infrastructure. We have homes here but you are taking us to a place where there are no homes.

Mr Chairperson, like I keep saying it is simply because the land that was being used for training under Palabana, the 1,000 hectares, was cut into half and the other 500 hectares has been shared among the leadership. So, maybe, that is the reason for moving the Palabana Institute. If you recall this is the same challenge I had in 2010/2011 under Chalimbana when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government was in power. I kept pleading here about Chalimbana but because people were in positions of power they never wanted to listen. I am again pleading to those in power not to transfer Palabana Dairy College to Mazabuka because that is against the agreement that we had with President Sata. It is wrong and immoral to share that land amongst yourselves. I beg those responsible to leave Palabana where it is.

Let Palabana be part of the university. The idea was to have an institution that offers certificates, diplomas and degrees.  The new ideas that are coming up due to people’s vested interests are not going to help this country to move forward.

Mr Chairperson, I always bring up the issue of land because it gives us problems as people of Chongwe District. We have continued to see cadres demarcating and allocating land in certain areas of the district. I spoke to the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection about this and gave her information about two weeks ago. I do not know what has been done because she has not come back to me on the matter. This issue of land allocation is a big problem.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to say that you reap what you sow. Whatever we do, as leaders today, will affect us when we are no longer in power. There are people who were in power and had land and their land was safe because they were in positions of authority. However, when they lost power, cadres pounced on their land. They forgot that they did not bring order when they had the opportunity to do so.  

Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about the issue of violence again. The Ministry of Home Affairs must do something about the occurrence of violence, especially in Lusaka Province. It is neither improving nor changing. People are giving lip service because they are not affected. However, I will stand on this Floor again and will recollect my statement on violence. Let us know that if you are going to perpetrate violence against me, tomorrow may be your turn. It does not matter who is perpetrating violence, we must all condemn it.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I brought a Motion against violence on the Floor of this House, but it was rejected. What I have observed about leaders is that violence is only violence when perpetrated by the left. It changes its name when it is perpetrated by the right. Let us say no violence to as leaders. I rest my case and support this Vote.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to support the Vote for the Copperbelt Province. To start with, the people of the Copperbelt are very happy with the infrastructure development that is taking place in the area.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, as for Luanshya, in particular, we have 20 km of road network being worked on. This is something that was never there. We have the imminent C400 Project which will cover all the districts on the Copperbelt.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, no district on the Copperbelt Province has been left out of the construction of road network. All the districts, namely, Luanshya, Chingola, Mufulira, Ndola, Kalulushi, Chililabombwe and Kitwe, have had their roads worked on. We have tarmacs in areas where people thought we would never have tarmacs. People never thought that Mufulira would ever have a modern market, but we have one under construction.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: People never thought that they would ever have a Government-run hospital in Chililabombwe, but we have one being constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, in the education sector, schools have been upgraded and we now have children covering short distances to secondary schools.
In the health sector, all the districts on the Copperbelt have benefitted from the 650 health posts. Luanshya Constituency has four health posts which have been completed.

Hon. UPND Member: Aah!

Mr Chungu: Yes! That is a working Government and a working hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Sir, five clinics have been constructed under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in the last four years. Six ambulances have been bought for the health posts in Luanshya.

Mr Chairperson, the Masangano/Luanshya Road, where we have problems is under design stage. Other roads that are under design stage include the Lamba/Lima Road and the Kafubu Block/Luanshya Road. They are being improved from gravel to bituminous roads.

Sir, when I attended the funeral of the Late Colonel Kafumukache in 2003, people were talking about the Lufwanyama/Kasempa Road. There were leaders then, but they did not work on it. This Government has come up to construct it. It is coming on board.

Mr Chairperson, in the last four years, more than 2,000 housing units have been built by the people of Luanshya out of the 4,000 plots that have been given out. This is a sign that the people of Luanshya are very happy with this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: They will vote!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, as regards the retrenchments in Luanshya, I would like to share some background. Before privatisation, the Luanshya Copper Mines (LCM) employed 16,000 people. At the time of privatisation, 10,000 people lost their jobs with only 6,000 retained by Binani in 1996. When Binani left, we had JNW which retrenched a further 1,500 workers. When JNW left, China Non-ferrous Metal Mining (CNMC) came in and retrenched a further 1,000 workers. Therefore, this is not something new. It is something that has happened on the Copperbelt before. It will not make the PF lose popularity.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: We will go out there. Some people are boasting about having gained popularity, but we are also gaining popularity because people are able to understand why the job losses are taking place.

Mr Chairperson, the police station at Kafulafuta is not worth being called a police station. I can only call it a police station for now because it is what we inherited. It is not something that people would be proud of having had from the 1970s to date. It is a ramshackle. The same applies to Mpongwe. We urge the hon. Minister of the Copperbelt Province to quickly move in and find ways and means to work on them through the Ministry of Home Affairs because they not giving any encouragement to the police. The police presence is there, but the conditions are very bad.

Mr Chairperson, we have a few bridges such as the one that links Luanshya Constituency to Masaiti, Saka Bridge, and a few others that need attention.

 Mr Chairperson, the PF Government will continue to win elections come 2016.

With these few words, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to support this Vote, and add the voice of the people of the Central Province to this Budget.

Sir, it is exciting to hear some of my colleagues talk about the developments which are taking place in their provinces. I think that people would laugh at me if I talked about that. Development should have a national agenda. People everywhere in the country need services. I will not say that there is nothing happening in my province. There is something happening. Some health posts are being constructed in my province, as part of the 650 health posts which the Government promised to construct throughout the country. A loan was already given to us by the Indian Government to construct these 650 health posts, but the pace at which they are being constructed is very slow.

Services should be taken where they are needed. The population of Katuba has grown. Therefore, it qualifies to have a hospital. Chibombo District does not have a district hospital. We treat Liteta Leprosarium as a district hospital, but it is not a district hospital. The people of Katuba need the services of a district hospital. What we have in Katuba are health posts. The disadvantage of a health post is that it is run by one nurse. That nurse has to report for work at, maybe, 0700 hours, and knock off at 1700 hours or 1800 hours. Suppose there is an emergency. The nurse has to go back and attend to the emergency. Hence, the people who staff these health posts are overworked. I think that the country needs to have statistics which will show us where we need to increase personnel or upgrade health posts. The Government treats Liteta Leprosarium as a district hospital. It has even given the institution ambulances. However, Liteta Leprosarium is 60 km from Katuba. Now, suppose there is an emergency, how will people access medical assistance? The cry of the people of Katuba is that they need the Government to upgrade the health posts in their area. At least, a doctor should be assigned to each health post. Using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we have electrified most of the health posts and schools in Katuba. However, the Government needs to do more in order for the people in Katuba to access proper medical facilities.

Mr Chairperson, I was telling the hon. Minister of Works and Supply the other day that Lusaka looks neat. The roads look nice. However, Katuba is also as good as Lusaka. I want the L200 km Road Project to be extended to Katuba because Katuba is also important. I can assure the hon. Minister that, tomorrow, he will start looking for me to give him land in Katuba, where everyone is coming to settle because Lusaka is congested. Everyone is coming to Katuba for the fresh air. So, the Government should be forward-looking in terms of development. The Government should start providing facilities not only in urban areas, but rural areas as well. These facilities should not only be enjoyed in urban areas. The people in Katuba need these facilities as well. It is high time the Government looked at taking facilities to the rural areas.

Sir, when I was preparing to come back to this House, I remember that the Office of the Vice-President promised to tar the Mungule/Landless Corner Road. That office is still in existence, and I am happy that my mother-in-law is the Vice-President now.

Hon. Members: Oh!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Vice-President owes the people of Katuba the rehabilitation of the Mungule/Landless Corner Road. That road is an economic road. The farms around that road produce a lot of things. We will grow the gross domestic product (GDP) of the country by rehabilitating that road instead of some of the roads which are being rehabilitated. Most of the big farms in the country are located around that road. Look at the number of ranches there. We have farmers who are cultivating 2,000 ha around that area, and they need a good road so that they can take inputs to their farms, and take their produce to the city. So, the Office of the Vice-President needs to rehabilitate the Mungule/Landless Corner Road. I have been given an official assurance that the Office of the Vice-President will start working on the road now, and I want to see the completion of the rehabilitation of that road come to fruition.

Sir, during the campaigns for the parliamentary by-election in Katuba, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Lungu then, now the President, and Hon. Guy Scott went to Katuba and promised to repair the Chunga/Barlastone Bridge which had broken down, in two months. Hon. Kampyongo, the chief in that area is still waiting for you to fulfil the promises you gave ...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing me to rise on this very important point of order.

Sir, I have been sitting here listening attentively to the hon. Member who is on the Floor. He knows where my office is located. Is he in order to pit me against Her Royal Highness over the issue of the bridge when he knows that my door and that of Hon. Mukanga are open for him to come and engage with us so that that bridge can be worked on for the betterment of the people of Katuba?

Mr Chairperson, is he in order to draw me into his debate as a way of requesting the Government to take development to his constituency?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

The only point where he was not in order was when he addressed you directly. Had he addressed you through me, he would have been in order. Hon. Shakafuswa, please, address the Chairperson.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kampyongo went and told the chief that the Government was going to rehabilitate the Mungule/Landless Corner Road, the Shanjongo Bridge and the Chunga Bridge. I want Hon. Kampyongo to ensure that those promises he made materialise. I went to his office when he was an hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President, and I know that he started these projects. The chief does not know the new hon. Ministers in that office, but the chief knows you ...

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

The chief knows him.

 Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, the chief knows him because he is the one who went there and knelt before him, and promised to do all those things. So, the chief asked me, “Ulya mwaniche ulya uwamba maningi alikuli?” meaning, “where is that young man who speaks a lot?” I told him, “Nkwali mwene ono bubeshi”

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, it means, “He is there, I will bring him.”

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

I have been told that “Bubeshi” does not mean, “I will bring him.”

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, with the increased population in Katuba, there is need to extend the dual carriageway on the Great North Road from this end. The congestion from Heroes Stadium to Kabanana Turn-off is terrible. Hon. Minister, you can either deviate or add one lane on either side of the road up to Kabanana Turn-off. You, our friends, are lucky because when you are on the road, ordinary motorists have to pull off because of the sirens signaling your passing.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: People pull over when they hear “wiyu wiyu wiyu”.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: To get into town at 7 am, people have to be up at 4 am. Driving back home takes them another two hours.  So, do not just expand the road from Kapiri Mposhi to Kabwe. As good planning, we have to start from here.  

Mr Mukanga interjected.

Mr Shakafuswa: Are you talking to me, hon. Minister?

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Let us expand the Great North Road from this end.

Mr Chairperson, today, there is a critical shortage of water in Katuba as a result of deforestation.  Katuba District, which is a catchment area for Chongwe and Mwembeshi rivers, used to have a forestry department. Why can we not have a deliberate policy for climate change? We can put more money in tree nurseries under the Forestry Department in Katuba. We can encourage people to plant trees and have a shade at their homes. By so doing, we would be mitigating against the effects of climate change. This is the simplest way of doing this.
Nowadays, people are cutting down trees indiscriminately to pave way for agriculture, yet it can be done systematically. Let us talk to the people, through agricultural extension officers, about having windbreakers.

Mr Chairperson, we can give the people trees to plant and ask them not to cut them. In the end, we will be mitigating against water shortage.  At the moment, the people of Katuba, especially those who live along the Chunga Stream, near my mother-in-law, Her Honour the Vice-President, are drinking sewerage water. This is fifty years after independence. They make shallow wells along this stream which brings dirty water from the Chunga sewer line. This is where people get their drinking water. This is an emergency because, tomorrow, you will be looking for money for the treatment of dysentery and control of diarrhoea. All we need to do is sink boreholes for the people.  

Mr Chairperson, in winding up, I want to say that the population in Katuba District has grown. Every day, at the Zani Muone Hill, someone is bashed by a car. We have about ten deaths per week in the area. We have written to the Road Development Agency (RDA) about this. When cars are going uphill, they are not seen by pedestrians. Most of the time, the victim will only see the vehicle as it approaches, at 120 km/hour, and fail to outrun it. For such issues, we do not have to go to Hon. Kampyongo’s office to complain. It should be the concern of the Planning Department at the RDA. They should know where populations are high and so on and so forth. Moomba High School is losing at least five pupils every month because there is nothing that stops the vehicles from speeding.

Mr Chairperson, I am also appealing to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to check for road signs and marks on the Great North Road. There is no single traffic sign between Lusaka and Kabwe. You can check this out, hon. Minister. So, how are you helping motorists by working on a road and not put up signs? While this road was being resurfaced and extended, the road signs were removed by bulldozers. So, hon. Minister, tell your people to put humps and road signs. I hope that when I come to debate next year, I will talk about some progress. As it is, I am crying on behalf of the people of Katuba.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to Head 97, which is that of the North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, ever since this Vote came under consideration, I have been listening attentively. To my surprise, there are certain regions that are more developed than others. While certain provinces are doing quite well, others are wallowing in poverty and underdevelopment. There is no development whatsoever in other provinces. The north-eastern part of this country is well developed while the north-western region, formerly the north-western Rhodesia, has nothing to write home about. There is a complete discrepancy.

The motto is One Zambia One Nation. However, in terms of development, this motto is not coming out strongly, and we have to be careful. If we are to promote One Zambia, One Nation, we should promote equity in development. This is why the people of the North-Western Province, right now, are incensed with the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. There is no project right now in the North-Western Province that the PF Government has started.

Interruptions

Mr Lufuma:  There is no major project started by the PF Government in the North-Western Province. The people of Kabompo in the North-Western Province are saying “One Zambia, One Side”, in response to the motto One Zambia, One Nation.  

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: When I say, One Zambia? They say, One Side!

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: The side they are talking about is the North-Eastern Rhodesia.  
Mr Mbewe: Ah!

Mr Lufuma: If I insist on the One Zambia, One Nation slogan, they tell me “Awa malya awa meva vumba”.

Hon. Government Members: Hmmn!

Mr Lufuma: This means some are eating and enjoying themselves while others, like those in the North-Western Province, are wallowing in poverty and underdevelopment. This is what is happening and it is not a good indication.  

Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairman!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, you have heard my colleagues talk about township roads in their areas. They talked about how their areas are heaven on earth because the roads are done. They are boasting about township roads, inter and intra district roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, clinics, street lighting, markets, state-of-the-art police stations such as the one in Muchinga Province and its two universities and so on. What projects have you heard about in the North-Western Province? There is absolutely nothing.

Mr Chairperson, in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, the University of Zambia (UNZA) was constructed first. The next university to be built was UNZA in Ndola (UNZANDO), for those that are ancient enough, now called the Copperbelt University (CBU).

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: The third university was supposed to be built in Solwezi. Even a placard that read “University of Agriculture” was put on location. To date, this university has not been built.

When the PF Government came into power, their proclamation was that every province would have a university. This is was just a disguise so that the construction of the University of Agriculture in Solwezi could not take off. Instead, two universities in one district in Muchinga Province were built. How can you do this?

How can a host call people to dinner and get half of the meat, half of the chicken and half of the nshima before the guests start to eat? What will those guests say?

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: They will say that you are a greedy man.

Mr Livune: One Zambia?

Mr Lufuma: One Zambia?

Hon. Opposition Members: One side!

Laughter

The Chairperson: I hope you are reporting what they say. Do not use that as your slogan here.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: That is what the people of the North-western Province and Kabompo West are saying. If you take a trip there, do not be afraid. That is part of the country. Go there and meet the people and they will tell you ...

Hon. Opposition Members: One Zambia, one side!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I am filled with a twinge of envy when I hear how other provinces are developed when my province has nothing at all. Let us take the energy sector as an example. The Government boasted that they have US$300 million to ensure that the whole North-Western Province is electrified through the grid. However, right now, there are only two districts which are connected in the North-Western Province. This programme has stalled completely. These are the projects that we mean when we say that there is no major project that has been implemented in the North-Western Province.

Sir, the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project is another reason I say that it is one Zambia, one side. Which road has been implemented in the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project in the North-Western Province?

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero!

Mr Lufuma: Zero! Not a kilometre has been implemented.

Mr Mushanga:  Chingola/Solwezi!

Mr Lufuma: Chingola/Solwezi? It takes five hours to go from Chingola to Solwezi and it was better left in the state that it was in because ...

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Lufuma: ... it was easier to get to Solwezi or Chingola. What are you doing?

Mr Livune: The UPND would have done better.

Mr Lufuma: Nothing has been done on the Katunda/Mumbezhi Road, Manyinga/Mwinilunga/Jimbe Road, Kaoma/Kasempa Road, Mumbwa/Kasempa Road or Solwezi/Mushindamo Road. Nothing has also been done on the economic road which is the Solwezi/Chingola Road. If there is any road which deserves to be done, it is the Solwezi/Chingola Road. However, you were just wasting a lot of resources doing small roads connecting house to house in Lusaka as if Lusaka is Zambia and Zambia is Lusaka.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: This is wrong. Governance must have justice and fairness.

Mr Mulomba: One Zambia, one side!

Mr Lufuma: Without fairness and justice there is no good governance and the PF needs to change its attitude towards the North-Western Province because they do not think it will be an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: The North-Western Province is going to be a swing province in the elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: We will deny you that vote.

Mr Mwila: Takwaba!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I have been standing on the Floor of this House talking about township roads. When Hon. Dr Guy Scott was Vice-President, he promised on the Floor of this House that township roads in Kabompo would be done but, up to now, nothing has been done even after an assurance. If we can assure the nation here and not do anything about it, what type of Government are we? Do we hold our provinces dear? That is not governance.

Sir, if the Government does not want to do the North-Western Rail, let them support the public- private partnership (PPP) that is trying to do something productive for the North-Western Province and this country as a whole. The concession that needed to be signed by the Government on this railway line has not been signed for a long time. This is a project which is viable and can contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country, but you ignore it. Why are you ignoring it? Is it because it is being spear-headed by a North-Westerner?

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Lufuma: What are your reasons? One Zambia, one side.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: On a point order, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, the Zambezi Bridge...

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: ... promised by the PF ...

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sikazwe: Order, iwe. Leka tulandepo

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. We need to be serious and state facts when we come here. The issue that the hon. Member who is debating is talking about is an issue that was started in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) era.

Hon. Opposition Members: So?

Mr Sikazwe: Is it the Patriotic Front who stopped it?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sikazwe: There are issues that we are trying to sort out. Is he in order to bring an issue that was started by the previous Government and indicate that we are the ones who have stopped it and hence they are not going to vote for us without indicating that we will still win without their vote? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: You are bringing in a lot of things. Anyway, the Provincial Minister will have the opportunity to address issues like that when his time comes.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, leaders are voted into place and disappear after favour has been withdrawn, but the promise and the institution remain.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: This is a viable project for the Government of this country. It is not a viable project for the MMD or for the PF but this country. The Government has a responsibility to ensure that they implement projects that add value. They are not there to merely politic, they are there to add value to this country.

Mr Livune: Not connecting house to house!

Mr Lufuma: Sir, we are talking about urban roads, but feeder roads are important for agriculture to develop because that is the only way you can invite the private sector to do the input supply and marketing. You seem to ignore this, but you do it at your own peril.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, the Government has failed for five years to finish a road from Katendwa Turn-off to Kayombo. How can you fail to do a gravel road for five years?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: You have failed to do the Nkulwashi/Kabulamoma Road. How can you fail to do it in five years?

Hon. Government members: Aah!

Mr Lufuma: Come on, give us break.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: One Zambia, one side!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I have a lot of points but, because of time, I will move to the health sector.

Mr Chairperson, Luwi Mission Hospital was built more than five years ago. That is a first level hospital which has all the equipment but it also needs support from the Government. This Government has ignored that hospital completely. How does this Government expect to service the people in Mwinilunga if it ignores such facilities that have been put up by partners such as missionaries? We have to be serious, ladies and gentlemen.

Sir, Mwinilunga and Kabompo district hospitals have not had renovations ever since they were built. The ministry promised to put up a new general hospital in Kabompo District but, up to now, nothing has happened. The people even went to clear the land where that hospital is supposed to be built but nothing has happened. What is happening? Even in the Yellow Book, this Government blind folds us by putting figures which make us think we are sharing the resources equally.  We even reach an extent of thinking that this Government is very good even when they only release funds for Muchinga, Luapula, Chipata and Northern provinces. What is wrong?

Laughter

Mr Lufuma:  Where is, “One Zambia, One Nation”? One Zambia, One Nation means development in all corners of this country. President Mwanawasa …

Dr Chilufya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this point of order. Deliberations of this House are broadcast to the public and it is extremely important that we are factual in our presentation.

Mr Chairperson, Luwi Mission Hospital was funded by this Patriotic Front (PF) Government …

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Chilufya: …and we gave money directly to that institution to upgrade infrastructure to accommodate the equipment that was there. Is the hon. Member in order to mislead this House and the public that this Government is not doing anything in the health sector in his constituencies when we have embraced equity as a guiding principle in our distribution of resources in the health sector?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Lufuma, can you …

Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Aah! I have not finished.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Take it easy. The hon. Minister is saying that they released money to that place and you are denying it. So, in your debate, you should take that point of order into account.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I am not talking about the release of money. This Government promised to construct a general hospital in Kabompo but they failed to do so.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, let me come to schools. Fifty-one years after independence, we have primary schools such as Chifuwe South, Mununga and Kafungo which are still in this manner. (Mr Lufuma showed some diagrams). I am going to lay this drawing on the Table. How can they call themselves a Government of the people?

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma laid the paper on the Table.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate the Budget of the Western Province. In supporting the Budget, I would like to take some of the sentiments expressed earlier as my own with respect to the Western Province. When we look at the Western Province, in the area of infrastructure, clearly, there are major problems there. As we stand now and look back over the last four years, we have seen the Mulobezi/Sesheke Road not having been retouched. We have the Mwandi/Mulobezi Road, Luampa/Mulobezi/Sesheke Road, Usha/Limulunga/Mushituwambumu, Nakanya/Namushakende Road and Kalongola/Shang’ombo Road. These are major feeder roads which have not been retouched, including the Katunda/Lukulu Road. There is a problem because the people are in difficult situations with regards to transportation. We expect that our colleagues who are in the governance of this country should take very serious measures to address those predicaments that our people have.

Mr Chairperson, the Western Province, in terms of development, suffers from what I would call, “incomplete thinking” to the development process of the province. That is the disease, as it were, which we are suffering from. When you look at the Western Province, first and foremost, the late President Sata started very well by allocating nine districts to the province. May his soul rest in peace.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: That was a good move because districts are very important for the development of a region. Clearly, that was a very good start though it was an incomplete one. We wish he could have completed that line of development by declaring other places such as Nalikwanda, Mangango and Liuwa as districts because districts are very important to the development of that region. The Western Province is an extremely hard terrain. It takes long to drive from one place to the other. When you have districts, …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir. (Whilst seated)

The Chairperson: A point of order is being raised in a wrong way.

Laughter

The Chairperson: The hon. Minister is asking for a point of order whilst seated. That is why I was just observing him. You know the rules. If you are asking for a point of order, you do the right thing. So, until you do the right thing, I will not allow you to raise a point of order.

Continue, hon. Member for Nalikwanda:

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: Yes, you got it right now.

Laughter

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. You will recall that when the late President, Mr Michael Sata, created new districts, it is on record that the Opposition, especially the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalikwanda, said that it was a waste of resources and that it was not planned for properly. Is he in order, today, to say that it is a good programme and that he wants it continue?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: The serious ruling is that people do not hold views permanently.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Sometimes, they change their view points. Therefore, he is in order.

The hon. Member for Nalikwanda can continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, clearly, districts are important. Surely, that incomplete thinking should have been completed. We are now challenging the current Republican President who said he was going to complete the legacy of the late President to do so. He should complete that thinking and that line of thought in terms of the development for the Western Province by declaring, especially, the three areas which are Nalikwanda, Mangango and Liuwa as districts. That is very important. In terms of completeness of thinking, the late President was very right by saying, during the campaigns, that he would restore the Barotseland Agreement. That was necessary and we would like that line of thought to be completed, too. Now, why is it important to restore the Barotseland Agreement?  It is important because that document called Barotseland Agreement, which I first came across in 1975, ...

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES
in the Chair]

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that as regards the development of the Western Province, there is need to address the Barotseland Agreement of 1964.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, this is a very harmless agreement and if one reads it very closely, it would afford Zambians an opportunity to come up with a model of development in an independent republic. This is a document of strategy and it addresses how best a national Government can work with the established traditional authority. The Western Province had a very clearly-established traditional authority, which authority had actually tested itself in terms of preserving, protecting and sustainably developing the region.

Mr Ndalamei: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, if the Barotseland Agreement is restored even today, it would go a long way to protect, preserve and sustain development in the region.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, failure to do that, the province is currently undergoing desertification because of the careless cutting down of trees. Foreigners pay as little as K5 to cut trees that have been protected for centuries by the traditional leadership and that is now destroying the environment. These are some of the issues that the Barotseland agreement would have addressed if the national Government worked hand in hand with the established authorities. Over the last few years, we have had a system of fishing in the Western Province which is called komba komba where even the small fish are caught and the grass is destroyed. Such things were protected by the traditional leadership and that is why it is extremely important, as far as that region is concerned, to work in hand in hand with the established traditional authorities. That is what the Barotseland Agreement is all about and, clearly, it is not too late to restore that highly relevant and useful agreement which is very important for the sustainable development of the region.

Mr Ndalamei: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I hope that the current leadership under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government will not use that document to arrest and humiliate anybody, but should use it to educate the civil servants, traditional leadership and, citizenry at large, about the need to uphold and respect the traditional authority so that it can play its rightful role in the preservation and protection …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Can the hon. Ministers consult quietly.

Prof. Lungwangwa: … of the province. So, that would go a long way as regards the development of our province because that is important.

Mr Chairperson, the other area I would like to talk about is infrastructure development in the Western Province. In 2010, when the Mongu/Kalabo Road was launched, the thinking was that it would be the western transport corridor. Zambia has several transport corridors which include the Walvis Bay, Lubumbashi Transport Corridor, Southern Transport Corridor, Nacala Bay Transport and Northern Transport Corridor. However, the Western Transport Corridor which links Zambia to Angola was not developed and steps were taken in 2010 to develop it by constructing the Mongu/Kalabo Road all the way into Sikongo.

Mr Ndalamei: Yes!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, money was actually sourced to construct the Mongu/Kalabo and Kalabo/Sikongo roads.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Therefore, where is the money that was meant for the construction of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road so that we can complete the Western Transport Corridor? Similarly, the Rivungu/Shang’ombo Canal is part of the Western Transport corridor. However, that does not mean that because the Government is building the Mongu/Kalabo Road, it should, therefore, not construct other infrastructure within the province. This is because those who are going to benefit from the establishment of the Western Transport Corridor are not only the people of the Western Province, but all the Zambians as well as those from Southern Africa.

Mr Chairperson, in the Southern African Development Community (SADC), and even Africa, as a whole, Zambia is considered the heart of Africa as far as transport corridors are concerned. Actually, the centre of Africa, if we do not know, is Kapiri Mposhi, and transport corridors are important. Therefore, the Government should complete the construction of the Mongu/Kalabo Road which is part of the western corridor stretching into Angola so that we can tap into the Angolan market for the benefit of our economy. I think, from now onwards, they should not say that they are building the most expensive road in the country because that is fallacious thinking.

Mr Chairperson, when the Northern Transport Corridor was being constructed in the 1970s, after the Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI), it was extremely expensive because, according to the information on the file, more than US$2 billion was spent on the Northern Transport Corridor which linked Zambia to Dar es Salaam. Therefore, people should not think the construction of the Mongu/ Kalabo Road, which is worth K1.3 trillion, is an expensive venture because it is a transport corridor.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, in fact, the money, which was left in 2011 should quickly be found so that we can complete the construction of the transport corridor into Angola because it is good for our country.

Mr Chairperson, I was personally sent to Angola to negotiate for the Livungu/Shang’ombo Canal, which has now been completed. This is good because it is part of the development of the Western Transport Corridor and also in recognition of Zambia’s strategic position that the Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries have agreed to allocate dry ports in places like the Walvis Bay.  SADC countries made a decision to give Zambia land at their respective ports that so that it can strengthen the transport corridors that Zambia is developing. Therefore, we should not have incomplete thinking as far as our infrastructure is in that part of the country and the Western Province, in particular, is concerned. It is for that reason that we should even address the Mongu/Lusaka Road.

 Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I also want to add a quick voice and say that, reluctantly,  I support the Vote for the Southern Province, which has dropped in terms of figures from K101 million to K80 million.

Sir, in real terms, this drop could easily be due to the exchange rate losses and the devaluation of our currency which is about 50 or 60 per cent of what was actually allocated and appropriated last year.

Mr Chairperson, given that as a preface, I was also very green with envy when I sat and listened to my hon. Colleagues whose provinces are like a carbon copy of paradise and everything is going one very well.

Sir, the fortunate state of affairs is that the people of the Southern Province understand how the Patriotic Front (PF) was very quick to settle and they look settled. They actually settled in 2012 after a hard battle to dislodge the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and quickly went into settlement.  During their campaign, they made huge pronouncements as to how bad the situation was, meaning the growth rate as at 2011 which was at 6.4 per cent. Today, we are somewhere in the region of 4 per cent. Even if we had made a projection in the last two years that we would be developing our economy at 7 per cent, it has come to light that all that was just wishful thinking on the part of the PF Government. The people of the Southern Province are aware and they also know very well that the PF has been thriving on borrowed money. This is the point where they get a little bit jittery and unsettled because that money has to be paid back.

Mr Chairperson, I am not so sure that my brothers and sisters, hon. Members of Parliament and their constituents who are living in paradise today as a result of the imprudent nature of how the PF has been running the affairs of this country know that there shall come payback day some day in the future. Clearly, that responsibility will not be on this side of the House. Maybe, a few lucky young ones who are still here with us may take the pressure of paying back the loans the PF Government has subjected this country to.  For lack of a better term, this is imprudent borrowing. Using the arrogance of numbers, this Government has borrowed and this has brought the borrowing threshold to levels that are frightening.

Sir, let me now come my province, the Southern Province. It is also good that the people in this province are aware about the degeneration of law and order under the thumb of the PF leadership. I am talking about democracy and governance. The people in this province know very well that the PF Party is a very violent group of people.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the people of the Southern Province have been long suffering and patient. They are waiting for the sunrise to come one day when there will be peace, tranquility and fairness in this country. At 50 per cent or less of the Budget allocation that we got last year, the performance of the budget is not even 30 per cent during this particular financial year, but the people of this province clearly know about what the future of this country should be.

Sir, I want to make an assurance that this might be the last Budget presentation that some hon. Members will attend and, for others, it may not be. For example, those who know, among us, know that this day shall not be seen again in this Parliament because someone has to reap what she /he sows. What the PF sowed in the last four years has been a zero yield. In terms of people development, it has been zero yield because it has just been full of boastful thinking and intimidation.  

Mr Chairperson, for instance, the only thing that I have benefited from the PF is that I have many friends among them, at a personal level but, as a group, they are a curse to this country.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I will demonstrate to you what I am referring to just now. This House is aware that before the MMD was dislodged, the former President, then, Mr Rupiah Banda, went to Kafue Gorge in Namalundu for the ground-breaking ceremony of the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station, the same 750 Mhz Power Station that President Lungu went to re-commission two days ago. In the wake of just announcing the austerity measures, the whole group of the hon. PF Members decided to burn fuel to go and witness the re-commissioning of the ground breaking ceremony. Even the 1 litre that went first in the Kariba Dam would not be full like that.

Sir, maybe, the memory is too short, but I want to remind the House that on 20th June, 2011, that project was commissioned and Hon. Kenneth Konga was the then hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, Hon. Elijah Muchima was the Provincial Minister while Ambassador Zhou Yuxiao was also present where people went to re-commission a commissioned project. This goes to show that it is the PF which is responsible for the energy shortages here because that project which was launched in 2011 stalled because of their ways. They decided to stop that project because they thought that everything that the MMD did was bad.               

Oh, how foolish! So the MMD wasted all those years investing in this power project and the PF just comes to commission it. By next year, we should have been generating power at Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station. The PF is a curse to this country.

Sir, it was right in this House where the hon. Minister of Agriculture engaged us about the e-voucher system. Today, we have been vindicated because by its own admission, the PF Government has agreed that there are problems in this new programme. This programme changed from the normal Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to the e-voucher scheme, which now has challenges. So, was it wise to decide to use thirteen most productive districts in a pilot project such as the one we are talking about? Just tell me how wise that decision is. I heard the lamentations from my sister from Chongwe Parliamentary Constituency who represents people who are predominantly agriculturalists. There will be unbearable hunger next year. That hunger will have been occasioned, squarely, by the PF Government. People will be hungry all because the PF Government does not want to listen.

Sir, when I began, I talked about the cosmetic development that is taking place using borrowed money. I am sure you know about the oldest profession in the world. There are people who look very beautiful and walk around the streets. Others go into hotels cosmetically dressed. They wear what we used to call Ambi so that they can tone their skins and attract people. They appear to be good, when they are actually bad. They are like a fig, which looks appetising on the outside but is rotten inside.

Hon. UPND Member: Tunyelele!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, anybody who has little understanding can actually think that the PF is heaven sent. I beg to differ with that thought because the PF is a curse to this country.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, posterity will judge the PF. Unfortunately, we are in this matter together. That is why, this evening, I am being lenient and modest to the PF. I could have said worse.

Sir, in the Southern Province, the people are waiting to usher in a new Government, which is going to deal with issues of feeder roads, ...

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... right through to the chiefs’ palaces. The Government employs PF cadres to go and work on the feeder roads. In Mazabuka, ...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order, however reluctantly. Governments are voted into office by the people. How I wish the Government could be voted into office by just one province. If that was the case, some of the hon. Members who have been debating here could have been sitting on this side of the House. However, this country is made up of more than one province and, so, we should always appreciate that fact. I have been in the Opposition for more than twenty years and, so, the Opposition can also be a curse.

Mr Mwiimba M. Malama: Mwalasa!

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to underrate the Zambian people’s voice and choice by accusing a popularly-elected Government of being a curse? As if that is not enough, when we lost our President, we suffered a big blow and our colleagues were celebrating because they thought that was a chance for them to form the Government. The people of Zambia decided that those would continue being a curse.

The Chairperson: What is your point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, is the hon. Member debating in order to play with the people’s choice by accusing this Government of being a curse?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Well, he is expressing a view point, which can be rebutted by some people when they come to wind up. Continue hon. Member.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, this is typical of the curse that I was talking about.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we have a business order today, and I am debating the Vote for the Southern Province. It is this House - that is why I am saying it is a curse, ...

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Nkombo, I have made a ruling on that issue. So, continue with your debate.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I appreciate your guidance and I will follow it to the letter. The province knows that there are some hon. Ministers here who forget that we are all national leaders. When we talk about Luapula, those leaders will stand on a point of order and ask if an hon. Opposition Member is in order to talk about a province he does not originate from. That is on record. This is the curse that I was describing. For now, my debate is limited to the Southern Province.

Sir, four years ago, it was the PF that said it would be migrating from the basic school system to the normal primary school system. Time is up and the PF is going. So, when will it ever implement that?

Hon. UPND Member: Where are they going?

Mr Nkombo: They are going where they came from.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Gona kuzingwa!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, on governance, the people in the Southern Province clearly understand how the PF has decided to use the police as a tool to subdue those with different viewpoints. Fortunately, that feeling is malignant now. Even the people in the Eastern Province understand. It is malignant and it is moving like a cancer. The people on the Copperbelt ejected my leader when he went to do something there. That is all because of paranoia or fear of the unknown. Where is that fear coming from? That fear is as a result of under-performance.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, if you are comfortable in your zone and you know that you are a good leader, why, then, would you use police to subdue others? Fortunately, the police in the Southern Province have, thus far, acted professionally. The officers from the Copperbelt Province, who tried to act professionally, were last week fired. It is public knowledge that those officers were fired because they knew that the rights to assemble, express oneself and move are inherent in the Constitution, which is the grand norm of the country. It is not rocket science to learn that electing the PF was a big mistake for the Zambian people. It was a huge but repairable mistake. The beauty of democracy is that leaders come and go. My mother once told me that empty tins make a lot of noise.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I want to thank you most sincerely for this rare opportunity to debate the Vote for Luapula Province. Like one of my colleagues, I also reluctantly stand to debate. I should not have, but I realise that not contributing to this Vote will be an injustice, especially that this is the last major debate for this term. I also realise that I am addressing a professional. The hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Province is a professional and, so, he will understand my debate. Having risen to the position of General is a big honour and quite an achievement. He also understands issues.

Sir, I have said that in my preamble because often times we do not listen to each other. When the Executive comes to reply, most of the replies are misdirected, even when the colleagues in the Opposition who raised the concerns meant well. Therefore, I hope the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Province will follow my debate. I mean well and will give him advice free of charge. It is up to him to take it or leave it.

Mr Chairperson, in my discourse, I will not mention every challenge in my area because, where I come, from chiefs speak through the indunas and village headmen and only make major pronouncements. Equally, I believe that hon. Members of Parliament, including hon. Ministers, should only itemise major issues and leave the small issues to other people, especially when it comes to things like the Constituency Development Find (CDF). A major pronouncement about CDF can be made, but personally, I think such issues should be left to the councilors so that their job is made easier.

Mr Chairperson, I will highlight a few things regarding Luapula Province, not to bring controversies, but to state facts. As I have said, I will not go into small issues. I want Luapula Province to react to the fact that it is the second least developed province in this country. I can safely say that in the last few years, the province has not moved from the bottom of the pile in terms of development. This is because statistics do not cheat. If we look at issues in that context, then we will be able to find ways of developing the province.

 Mr Chairperson, when I talk about the ranking of provinces in terms of development, some people will ask me which province I want Luapula Province to beat. However, another yardstick we can use is the poverty levels. I want my colleagues across to tell me if the poverty level in Luapula has dropped from the 67 per cent that it used to be. If it has, what is the prevailing percentage? If I am shown the new figures, I will not argue because statistics do not cheat. These are the yardsticks that I want addressed.

Mr Chairperson, at the moment, Luapula Province is only second to the Western Province, which is the least developed. The third from the bottom of the development chain is the North-Western Province. I thought there is a deliberate policy in terms of resource allocation in the Budget to improve the underdeveloped areas in order to avoid conflict amongst ourselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, as the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Provinces comes to wind up debate, I would like him to outline some of the major projects being implemented to move the province out of poverty. Doing so does not mean I am espousing regional politics. The hon. Deputy Minister can actually move district by district.

Mr Chairperson, I do not need to come from Samfya to talk about the area. If anything, Samfya is part of the Luapula Province, which I represent, and Zambia. Therefore, what development is taking place in Samfya? The Samfya/Luwingu Road was part of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. As a Luapula guy, I will benefit from the construction of this road, which is not even in Milenge. So, how far as the construction of this road gone? When people from outside Luapula hear the name Samfya, they think it is a city. Alas, it is nothing of the sort. When you get there, you will be disappointed with how impoverished it is.

Mr Livune: Ask Livune who has been there!

Mr Mbulakulima: So, we need to build Samfya District.

Mr Chairperson, what do our colleagues on your right have in mind for Nchelenge District? As someone who comes from Luapula, I would be proud if I was told that the Kashikishi/Lunchindu Road was now done. To the contrary, this road has not been worked on. It is like even the Chembe/Milenge Road project is just on paper. With high poverty levels in places like Milenge, these are the major projects that we need to be talking about in the province, without going into smaller details. So what is happening with these projects? What is there to bring pride to Luapula? How far has the development of the Luena Sugar Estate gone? As a province, we need to push our own development agenda. The development of Luapula will not only benefit the province, but Zambia as a whole.

 Mr Chairperson, there is also need for clarity in terms of where we are in the development of the Luapula University. Our colleagues on your right have accused us of all sorts of things regarding this project, but can they sincerely claim that this university has take shape? These are some of the issues that the hon. Deputy Minister for the province needs to come and address.

 Sir, we have been talking about the Northern Circuit with regard to tourism. How far have we gone in making Luapula an attractive tourist destination? These are the issues that will bring prosperity to the province. These are the major issues that we need to discuss regardless of which constituency one is from. Therefore, I am glad that my colleagues from Luapula have today given me the opportunity to debate on these issues on their behalf. I emphasise that these are the issues that we have to address.

Mr Chairperson, why should we take pride in having the fisheries headquarters in Chilanga when most of the water bodies in this country are in Luapula Province? Come on, we must be serious.

Mr Livune: Shame, Emerine. Shame!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Such institutions must be taken to our province.

Sir, I am also mindful that Luapula Province has a lot of minerals. Other provinces are making major steps in developing mines. However, there is not a single major mining project in our province. We need to work together and address this matter.

Mr Chairperson, I expect the hon. Deputy Minister to give an overview of where we are with regard to rehabilitating the Pedicle Road. As we all know, this road does not belong to one province, but the entire Zambia. The Copperbelt and Northern provinces as well as East Africa all have a stake in it in terms of access. Therefore, the benefits of rehabilitating it are not confined to Luapula Province alone.

Sir, I am also mindful of the fact that the Mansa/Luwingu Road is under construction. However, this road does not pass through most parts of the province. That is why we need to go deeper into Luapula Province and identify projects that will bring prosperity to the people in the province. That is very important. We can have about two or three projects that will benefit the whole province.

Mr Chairperson, I have been the hon. Deputy Minister for a province before and, therefore, I understand what the job entails. The Government should not wait for us to push it on what to do. When I was in the Executive, we approved a project for electrifying Lufwanyama. At the meeting we had at the provincial headquarters in Ndola, we prioritised this matter on our agenda because Lufwanyama really needed electricity despite places like Mpongwe, Masaiti and so on having a similar problem. It was our duty, as the provincial administration, to look into that matter.

Therefore, I expect the provincial administration not to wait for hon. Members of Parliament like myself to push it. For example, why should a road in Mansa Central only end in the constituency when it shares a border with Milenge? This road runs from Kale to Mulumbi. Come on, let us work as one unit.

Mr Chairperson, as a student of peace, leadership and conflict management, I sometimes shudder and fear that at the rate which we are going, something might happen to our country. In our course, we learn about causes of conflicts in Africa. These causes of conflict in Africa range from poor governance by the Government in power.

Dr Phiri conversed with Hon. Chikwanda.

Mr Mbulakulima: This is where I want Hon. Chikwanda and Hon. Dr Phiri to listen to me.

Laughter

Mr Pande: They are elders!

Mr Mbulakulima: These are elders and they are statesmen.

Mr Chairperson, there are various reasons there are conflicts in Africa. Some of them, as I said, arise from poor governance and autocratic rule where citizens are not given chance. There are also regional issues that we grapple with. There are also ethnicity issues, poverty levels, language dominance and, above all, the equitable distribution of national resources or the lack of it.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: These issues include the language that we use against each other.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Kakambidwe.

The language and approach we have when dealing with each other leaves much to be desired. If you follow the trend in Zambia and the rate at which we are going, there is cause to worry. That is why I am addressing my professional Minister that, as you respond, do not be sentimental. Are you sure that your province is swimming in luxury or we are just where we were before? I shudder to think about the language that we use which can bring chaos to our country from two angles. One …

Mr Pande: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mbulakulima: … is a situation where you rubbish everything as a leader and you believe that your people have been marginalised. It is this social exclusion which has brought conflict in Africa. Social exclusion is where leaders have incited their people…

Mr Sikazwe: Livune!

Mr Mbulakulima: …even when the leadership might be doing something sensible in your area and you decide to close your eyes…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: … and follow your own path. That is not helpful. It has brought confusion and conflict in other parts of the region.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Let us be objective in the way we criticise issues.

Mr Mwenya: Yama mwalanda bwino!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Further, let me be very neutral.

Mr Pande: Hmm!

Mr Mbulakulima: What brings this social exclusion is also the distribution of national resources which is not done properly...

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mbulakulima: ... and, now, when you stand on the platform or on the Floor of this House and tell your people as a national leader that your province is swimming in luxury, you must be very careful.

Mr Milambo: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Musokotwane tells me that there is no finishing line in development but for you, as a leader, to stand on the platform and say that for you everything is rosy is not correct.

Mr Ndalamei: Heaven on earth!

Mr Mbulakulima: The people who might not have anything will be saying they are suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: So, who do you blame?

Ladies and gentlemen let us control…

Mr Habeenzu: Our tongue!

Mr Mbulakulima: Let us be mindful of the language that we use. Otherwise, we might bring chaos for nothing. We are all at the same level where we are struggling to make development work for this country. The way we talk and boast must be checked. Let us compete in our provinces when it is campaign time. It should be Bangweulu Constituency versus Chembe which is in Milenge. The PF will say we did this and the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) did not do that. The MMD will say we did this and the PF failed because we are within our own region. Let us be mindful of the way we boast. You are inviting your own problems. We are all on an equal footing.

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Livune: Continue, continue!

Mr Mbulakulima: … I thought I should share this information with the House, this being the last debate with regard to the National Budget.

Mr Livune: Next year, you will be a Minister.

Mr Mbulakulima: I thank you most sincerely.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mbulakulima is my name, Member of Parliament for Chembe Constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Vote and budget for the Eastern Province. I have been in this House for just about a year now.

Mr Pande: Do not worry!

Ms Miti: I am not worried. Sometimes, it makes me very sad…

Mr Pande: Why?

Ms Miti: … that all I hear from some of our colleagues are the negative things that they have observed the PF Government doing and they talk and talk.

Mr Chairperson, I will start with agriculture in the Eastern Province. Sometime last year, around this time, there was a lot of noise concerning delayed payments to our farmers by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: This time it has been quiet.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Miti: All it means is that the PF Government…

Ms Kapata: Is working!

Ms Miti: ... is working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, in the Eastern Province, for example, there was a time, last year, when our farmers demonstrated and some colleagues in this House were celebrating. Mr Chairperson, this year, our farmers in the Eastern Province have received their payments and I have not heard anyone give a credit to the PF from our colleagues.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Sometimes, it is better to give credit where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Most of our districts in the Eastern Province as I am talking have received inputs which are being distributed to the farmers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: That is credit to the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, I will talk about the education sector. I come from Vubwi, a very rural place. Right now, we have the first boarding school that is being constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Fifty years since independence Vubwi has had no boarding school.

Mr Mpundu: Under the MMD!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, the PF has only been in the Government for five years…

Mr Mwale: It is four years!

Ms Miti: … but we have got this beautiful boarding school coming up in the province. I think let us give credit where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: We have schools being upgraded in the province. Most of our districts are beneficiaries of these schools. I think it is not only happening in the Eastern Province, it is happening even in other parts of this country.

Interruptions

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, in the health sector, right now, we have a beautiful district hospital being constructed in Chipata. I will be failing in my duties if I do not mention that Vubwi, as a new district, is a beneficiary of a district hospital as well. This means that the PF Government is working very well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Miti: These hospitals, once completed, will bring health care services closer to the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, our people in the rural areas walk long distances to access medical services. I think all of us here, in each constituency, if not district, are beneficiaries of the 650 health posts that have been distributed country wide.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, in the Eastern Province, most of these health posts are at slab level and the super structures are already in the province. I will talk about the roads which my colleagues have been complaining about. Of course, it is not everything that the Government has managed to do. That I admit, but let us look at the time that the PF Government has been in power.

Mr Chairperson, in the Eastern Province, I will talk about the Chipata/Chadiza Road, which is under construction and work is progressing very well. The Katete/Chadiza Road is also under construction.  We say thank you to the PF Government.

Mr Mwamba: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Miti: I will talk about the road from Chadiza to Chanida Border.

Mr Mwale: Yes!

Ms Miti: Chanida is on the border with Mozambique...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: … and this means that once this road is done, it will open up trade between Mozambique and Zambia, through Chadiza…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: … and once the Chipata/Vubwi Road is done, it will open up trade between Mozambique and Zambia through Vubwi, and Malawi and Zambia, through Vubwi. For us, in Vubwi, we are thanking this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, in the energy sector, I will talk about the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) project. Since the beginning of creation, Vubwi was a dark continent. I am saying a dark continent and not a dark portion of Zambia. It was during the time of the by-election, in which I emerged winner, when electricity poles were laid and our colleagues said that it was an election gimmick. However, right now, Vubwi has been connected and is awaiting the official commissioning of the line. The clinic, too, has been connected and now has power.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Miti: For those who are saying that it is not true, I invite them to come with me to Vubwi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, Sinda is one of the new districts and I am sure that those who go to the Eastern Province have seen the administration buildings that are coming up because they are just by the roadside. We have the District Commissioner’s house and staff houses coming up very well. All of these are along the Great East Road. If I talk about districts that are not along the Great East Road, some of the hon. Members  will say “Question!” I am talking about things that can be seen along the road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, the administration blocks in Vubwi District are also completed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: We have a post office under the PF Government which we never had. The people of the Eastern Province would like to thank President Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Mr Chairperson, as I close, I just want to remind my colleagues that we should live one day at a time. It is not possible for the Government to do everything at once. I am sure that they have received a share of development even in their constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Otherwise, we should be guilty that we are sitting in here getting sitting allowance when we are not giving our people anything.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: In fact, if you despise everything, sometimes, you carry a curse.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Miti: Learn to say “thank you” even when someone just greets you.

With these few remarks, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the chance to talk on the Vote for the Eastern Province. Let me take as my own the debate of Hon. Whiteson Banda of Milanzi and that of my sister, Hon. Miti of Vubwi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr I. Banda: I just want to point out a few things which the Government should do in the Eastern Province. I have a few comments to make on the state of rural roads. Apart from what is being done, I would like the Government to concentrate on rural roads that lead to chiefs’ palaces, especially those along the valley areas. The roads leave much to be desired. In my constituency, for example, we have the road from Chief Chikomeni to Chief Mwanya. The hon. Minister put in a lot of effort on this one and it is cleared. This is an economic road which leads to tourist attraction centres from the Luembe National Park to Lukusuzi National Park. We have two national parks there.

Sir, I am very happy that during the Budget presentation for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, Hon. Jean Kapata said that the Lundazi/Chitungulu Road would be done from Lusangazi River to Luangwa River. We hope that it will be done within next year’s budget.

Sir, the last part of the Lundazi/Kazembe Road, as we enter Chief Kazembe’s headquarters which is just about 35 km, leaves much to be desired. It is dilapidated. The Rural Roads Unit (RRU), through the Zambia National Service (ZNS), should come in and finish working on this road. It is a nightmare to travel through the three roads that lead to the valley areas of Eastern Province.

Mr Chairperson, I note that they have already put a contractor on the Isoka/Muyombe Road which starts from the hon. Provincial Minister’s constituency. The road is actually coming up very nicely. We thank the Government for this. A contractor is also working on the Muyombe/ Chama Road.  The problem comes in between Chama and Lundazi. It would be better if you gave us a contractor as quickly as possible so that this road is completed because this is the same road which our traders and businessmen use as they go to Nakonde to get their merchandise. The other road is the Lundazi/Rusunta Border Post Road. This is a 16 km road which should be upgraded.

Mr Chairperson, under health, we have the district hospital being constructed. We are grateful that the Government is doing this work in Lundazi, but we are asking for its completion. It has taken long and needs to be finished as quickly as possible. We want it finished and ready.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the Government and Hon. Dr Katema, in particular, who gave us a lot of help in upgrading the Lumezi Mission Hospital from a zonal hospital to a first level hospital.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr I. Banda: Let me thank the hon. Minister for the work well done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr I. Banda: Mr Chairperson, under tourism, we had people who encroached into the Lukusuzi National Park. This was a hot issue, but the hon. Minister came and calmed the situation with his wisdom and I would like to thank him for this. For now, the people who encroached are out, but I am asking him to make sure that they are given some relief where they are settled.

Mr Chairperson, the Eastern Province has a valley area which has perennial food shortage. It starts from the Luangwa Bridge and extends to the border with Chama South Constituency. People along this area are very productive. They grow rice, cotton, maize, sorghum and all sorts of crops, but the only problem is that animals destroy the crops. As a result, we have perennial hunger along this area.

I am asking the Government to bring relief food as quickly as possible. In fact, I should thank the Government because it has already started doing that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr I. Banda: Mr Chairperson, food has already been delivered to Chief Mwanya’s area. However, when it starts raining, it will become very difficult for the Government to access certain areas. Therefore, it should sit down and plan for construction of sheds to store relief maize in advance, before the rainy season comes, so that relief food can be distributed easily to the hunger-stricken communities.

Sir, the other issue I want to talk about is the border between Malawi and Zambia. This border has been re-demarcated. Some Zambian people’s houses were found to be in Malawi after the border re-demarcation. Our friends in Malawi have taken the law in their own hands and they have burnt the houses of the Zambians. So, I am asking the hon. Minister to meet with his counterpart from Malawi to discuss this situation, so that the situation along the border area can be harmonised. Today, I received a report that in Nchitimila Ward in Lundazi, a few houses have been burnt. Therefore, the hon. Minister should try to find out more about this incident so that the border conflict can be harmonised.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), I want to echo what my sister said. We need the Government to supply the additional seed and fertiliser packs for this year so that people can get these inputs as quickly as possible.

Sir, I do not have much to say. This is all I wanted to add to what my sister, Hon. Miti, and my brother, Hon. Whiteson Banda, said. I thank you for the time that you have given me.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Lingweshi may take the Floor, but before he starts, I have been told that the hon. Member for Lumezi had forgotten to tell the Government that Ubumi and Kapekesa schools should be completed.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

I just want to give an update in terms of the provinces that have finished. The provinces that have finished are: Copperbelt, Western, Southern, North-Western and Eastern. Provinces with one more hon. Member to debate are: Northern, Lusaka, Central and Luapula. The province with two hon. Members remaining to debate is Muchinga. That is the situation as we stand, at the moment, before the hon. Ministers can be asked to wind up the debate.

Any further debate?

Mr Lingweshi stood up.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Lingweshi, the Western Province is finished.

Hon. Members: Lingweshi, hammer!

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Lingweshi, you cannot debate on the Western Province. Three people from there have debated already.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on behalf of the Northern Province.

Sir, Hon. Mutati and Hon. Mwamba covered a lot on the development and challenges that we continue to face in the province. The Northern Province has a population of about 1.4 million people. According to the last census of 2010, Muchinga only has 700,000 people. I am giving these figures so that I can compare them with figures from other provinces to enable us have a view of how much resources the Northern Province deserves to get. The province with the highest population is the Copperbelt Province, which has 1.97 million people. The Northern Province has the second highest population. The North-Western Province has the lowest population with 727,000 people. The Southern Province has about 1.5 million people. I have deliberately mentioned these figures because I think that we are all quarrelling over crumbs. All the provinces do not receive enough funding. Provincial administrations do not receive adequate funding, yet these are the administrations which are closer to the people.

Mr Chairperson, I want to make a few comparisons. In this year’s budget, the Northern Province has been allocated K63,924,668. However, the mission in Rome, with about eight staff has been given K21,819,597, which is almost half of the amount which has been allocated to the entire Northern Province, which has nineteen districts, and about 1.4 million people. This goes to show that there is something very wrong with the way we are sharing our resources as a country. This tendency has not started now. It has been going on since independence. It is an old problem. I think that when we compare what each region gets in terms of resources, we are really just fighting over the same inequalities. There is total inequality in the way resources are allocated within the country. Let me pick the Ministry of Finance as another example. The Ministry of Finance is not designed to implement projects. It is a secretariat which is designed to distribute money to spending agencies. Apart from its function as a fiscal policy advisor to the Government, it does not perform bread and butter activities. However, look at the amount of money it has been allocated. In this year’s Budget, it has been allocated K1,777,092,584. That is the money it needs to distribute money.

Laughter

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Chairperson, this is not the problem of our well-respected hon. Minister of Finance, Hon. Chikwanda. This problem has been there for years. It has been there since independence. It is an old problem. It was there during Dr Musokotwane’s tenure as hon. Minister of Finance; it was there during Mr Magande’s tenure and it is still there under Hon. Chikwanda.

It has been there for a long time. Sir, K1.7 trillion has been allocated to Ministry of Finance to spend as it distributes cash.

Laughter

Mr Simfukwe: Let me pick one department under the Ministry of Finance. In the ministry, there is a department called Financial Management and Administration, which has allocated itself K1.13 trillion.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Billion!

Mr Simfukwe: Trillion and not billion. It is there in the Yellow Book. You can even see it in the summary before you go the detailed budget. There is an allocation of K1.13 trillion for financial management and administration.

Interruptions

Mr Simfukwe: Sir, these are the inequalities that we are dealing with here. Such allocations are the source of the poverty we have in this country. This is an old problem.

Mr Chikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Ba kugwila ku moyo!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I am very reluctant to disturb such an intelligent debate. It is however a question of facts. I think that the hon. Member has gone back to the period when the currency had not yet been redenominated. It is billion. So, please, be correct. To that extent, the hon. Member may not be out of order.

I want to reiterate, I am very reluctant because, basically, the thrust of his debate is absolutely intelligent. However, he should use correct figures. Is he in order to keep on using trillion?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Actually, the hon. Minister, in his point of order, is cleverly trying to correct the hon. Member. You are using the old currency instead of the rebased, which should be billion. You may continue, but keep that correction in mind.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for that point of order. The hon. Minister could be right. So, I will double check the figure. However, this still does not take away from the tragedy that we are facing regarding the allocation of resources among ourselves, as a country.

Mr Chairperson, before I shift my spotlight from the Ministry of Finance, I will quickly look at the Human Resources and Administration Department. This department has been allocated K563,714,951. This amount is ten times what the Northern Province Administration has been given. I am quite sure that this is now billion and not trillion.

The Central Statistical Office, apart from announcing monthly inflation rates and carrying out some periodical research activities, without figures on employment or other more important activities, has been allocated more money than the whole of the Northern Province. The office has been allocated K70,298,855 while the Northern Province has K63,924,668. In fact, the allocation for the province has reduced because, last year, K88,892,707 was allocated.

Mr Chairperson, I thought that I should mention this tragedy. Before I look at some of the sectors in the Northern Province, and because I do not want to be an armchair critic, I want to add that the answer lies in the devolution of our spending agencies. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a success story of what devolution of funds can do. People are given money and guidelines but they chose their own priorities.

Mr Chairperson, if we put more effort in looking at how we can budget our funds, we would see more progress. I know that it is not easy because these are established behaviours and structures that have been developed since independence. However, with a super political will, that will not come easily, we can reverse this post-independence mistake.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: It cannot go on like this.

Mr Chairperson, if we devolve the way we spend our money, even corruption will be no more. It would be very difficult to be corrupt if the money is devolved to the district because there is a stakeholder interest and communities are involved.

People will feel closer to the Government when they can be told the allocation for Mbala is K10 billion and if they can be given guidelines and asked to make the budget and send it to Lusaka to be incorporated. That money will be better placed in priorities. The Northern Province will set up the right priorities and know where it needs to spend this money. So, devolution or decentralisation is a key solution to using our resources more efficiently.

Mr Chairperson, as we consider devolution, our colleagues in the Cabinet can take a leaf from Kenya and Uganda. Uganda took a brave step of allocating resources directly to districts from the Central Government. We have learnt that tremendous results have come out of this action. Recently, Kenya put, in its Constitution, the abolishment of provincial administration. There is no provincial administration any more. Funds go straight to regions which are like districts. This may be far-fetched but I think that it can hold promise for reducing these inequalities in the way we allocate resources.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Chairperson, a lot of things have been going on in the Northern Province. In the health sector, we have seen a significant increase in the number of health centres that we have in the province.  We have seen a lot of improvement in the way the Government is supporting our health institutions. The CDF has supplemented the efforts of the Ministry of Health.

Mr Chairperson, one major area where we are lacking as a province is human resource. I would like to urge the Government to give us more specialists in our hospitals and also make sure that some of the good equipment that the Government is buying and sending to the hospitals in the province is properly serviced. You can decentralise the servicing of equipment.

Most of the companies that service this expensive hi-tech equipment such as those used for mammograms, laundry, catering and those used to look at the anatomy, which is available in Mpika and other districts, are answerable to Lusaka. When this equipment breaks down, the local hospital has no idea where to start from. I ask that you decentralise the servicing contracts to the hospitals that are using the equipment so that they can last longer.

Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is, without argument, the grain basket of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: Hon. Minister, I hope that this is taken into account even as you allocate inputs under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). We have the water, abundant rainfall, land and people who are natural farmers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: This province must be assisted to diversify. Our neighbours in Tanzania and Malawi grow cocoa. They grow a lot of tea, coffee and rice. Of course, coffee growing in the Northern Province has now been revamped because the new company there is doing very well.  The Ministry of Agriculture should take advantage of the abundance of water.

Mr Chairperson, we are happy that a lot of schools have now been upgraded and we ask that, if possible, all basic schools be upgraded to secondary schools because that reduces the distances for the children, especially the girl child, to go to school. However, we are happy that this process is on and more than forty schools have been upgraded in the Northern-Province.

Sir, in conclusion, while there is a lot that needs to be done in our province, we, as a province, are grateful that the Government continues to share these meagre resources with us, but there is a lot more that needs to be done with more equitable allocation. I think we can do better.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice on the Estimates of Expenditure for Luapula Province.

Sir, the two debaters from the province have looked at two sides. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe debated on what should have been an ideal situation in Luapula Province now and the hon. Member of Parliament for Mambilima debated about a number of developmental issues that have taken place especially in the road sector. When I was a student of ethics some years ago, the first phrase I learnt was ‘every negation has affirmation’.

Mr Zimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe: When you negate, you should also affirm. Then, you would have completed an equation. A minor premise and a major premise give you a conclusion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe: I say this because when you negate, you should affirm in order to complete an equation. You need to look at the negative and the positive.

Mr Chairperson, towards the end of last year, when I was Director for National Projects for Poverty Reduction, I took a trip to Shang’ombo through Livingstone, Sesheke and Sioma. On my way back, I used the Senanga/Mongu Road up to Lusaka ...

Mr Ntundu: Not Washishi Road.

Mr Kasandwe: ... and the hon. Members who said that there is nothing that has been done in these areas were not giving the true picture of what is happening. I drove on that road and the only part which is remaining is from Sioma to Shang’ombo. There is a very beautiful piece of work in Senanga although the hon. Member of Parliament was saying that there is nothing being done. When you begin by negating, you should end by affirming.

Sir, I will focus my debate on health and developmental activities which have taken place in Luapula Province. For instance, there is a hospital in Chienge, a District Hospital in Kawambwa, a hospital under construction in Mansa, a hospital in Phase III of construction in Milenge ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe: ... and Samfya District Hospital was commissioned early this year and is operational.

Mr Chairperson, Mansa General Hospital has been modernised.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe: We now have an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) ...

The Chairperson: Order!

You are not losing your time, you will continue tomorrow.

I want to use the last minute to explain one thing. I have had two notes from two hon. Members of Parliament both of which seem to indicate that we did not take party representation into account when debating. I want to advise that we do not really look at party representation when we ask for people to speak. A decision was taken that there would three people from each province. So, when we asked for debaters, those who indicated are the ones who spoke. If you thought that you would be allowed to speak even after the three had finished, then that was a misconception. Next time, if you want to debate, do indicate early.

(Debate adjourned)

__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

__________

The House adjourned at 1956 hours until 1400 hours on Wednesday, 2nd December 2015.

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