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Debates - Thursday, 5th November, 2015
Thursday, 5th November, 2015
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
CONSTRUCTION OF A DISTRICT HOSPITAL FOR NGABWE AND ANTI-RETROVIRAL THERAPY IN THE DISTRICT
159. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Health:
(a) when the construction of a hospital in Ngabwe District would commence; and
(b) when Anti-Retroviral Therapy would be introduced in the district.
The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the construction of a hospital in Ngabwe District is earmarked for 2017. It is the policy of the Government to build first-level hospitals in all districts.
Mr Speaker, anti-retroviral therapy (ART) is already on offer at four facilities in Ngabwe District, namely, Ngabwe, Mukubwe, Mumba Chala and Chilwa Island.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, anti-retroviral therapy (ART) is a matter of life and death for those who need it. What is the ministry doing to shorten the distances that have to be covered by people who need to access it? Further, what is required for a station to dispense ART?
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we have been expanding access to ART by opening up more facilities offering it in every part of the country.
Sir, the minimum requirements for a facility to dispense ART differ depending on the kind of service offered. For a comprehensive ART service, a health centre needs laboratory services. In the absence of a laboratory, a mechanism for transferring samples to the next level can suffice. So, what is required is the availability at the centre of appropriate infrastructure for the services provided. The centre also needs to have a human resource trained in the provision of ART. So, we are training more health workers in every part of the country to enable them to provide ART to the people of this country.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, will the hospital that will be constructed in Ngabwe have a mortuary? If it will, could the hon. Minister of Health confirm whether that will amount to the Government practising Satanism.
Laughter
The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, our answer is that, indeed, there will be a mortuary at the hospital. However, when the hon. Member continues to talk about Satanism, I get concerned about him because that is an area that I think is the preserve of those who have some kind of connection. So, with his continued reference to that subject, he would worry me that he has that connection. However, I am certain that he does not. Therefore, I need not answer anymore.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Laughter
UPGRADING OF MILENGE/KASANKA ROAD
156. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Milenge/Kasanka Road would be upgraded to bituminous standard.
The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the road will be upgraded to bituminous standard as a long-term intervention in 2018, upon the finalisation of the detailed designs and procurement of the works contractor. The procurement of the consultant to undertake the designs is in progress and it is anticipated that the services will commence in the first quarter of 2016.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, from the questions that I have been asking the ministry about development in Chembe and the responses I have got, it is clear that there has not been any development in the constituency. Can the hon. Minister tell me what benefits the people of Milenge will derive from his ministry between 2011 and 2016 that will be tangible enough for me to convince them that they are part of Zambia.
Mr Speaker: I will not allow the hon. Minister to answer that question.
Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the road will be tarred by 2018. Can he state whether the road projects that his ministry is implementing around the country will be completed by 2018, in time for the ministry to embark on the one in question.
Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, allow me to give a general response.
Sir, the Government is committed to completing all the road projects. As regards the one in question, it is our intention to commence works on it in 2018.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, Chembe is now a district. Is the ministry able to point out even one road that it has worked on since 2011?
Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we should confine ourselves to the Kasanka/Milenge Road.
Sir, after considering the condition of the road, the Road Development Agency (RDA) Regional Office awarded the K300 million contract to grade it to two contractors.
I thank you, Sir.
PROJECTS TO BE FINANCED BY US$1.25 MILLION EUROBOND
157. Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi) asked the Minister of Finance:
(a) which projects would be financed using the US$1.25 billion Eurobond that was recently issued;
(b) how much would be spent on each project;
(c) when the loan was due for repayment; and
(d) what measures had been taken to ensure that the Government does not default on the repayment.
The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Mvunga): Mr Speaker, the major allocations for the Eurobond money include the following:
(a) US$410.7 million for the improvement of road infrastructure, including rural roads;
(b) US$268 million for domestic debt swap and clearance;
(c) US$40 million for maintenance of canals and procurement of maritime equipment;
(d) US$45.2 million for infrastructure in the education sector;
(e) US$20.3 million for infrastructure in the health sector;
(f) US$20 million for water and sanitation projects;
(g) US$45.2 million for citizens and youth empowerment;
(h) US$21 million for the agricultural sector;
(i) US$15 million for on-lending to state-owned enterprises; and
(j) the remainder for part financing of the 2016 Budget that is currently being debated in Parliament.
Mr Speaker, the US$1.25 billion Eurobond was structured in such a way that it will be redeemed in three equal instalments of US$416,667,000 in July, 2025; July, 2026; and July, 2027.
Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to state that, this being such an important topic, one would have expected Parliamentarians to have taken keen interest in understanding the terms on which this Eurobond was issued. Therefore, they should have been knowledgeable about this debt before now.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, to ensure that the Government does not default on the repayment, a sinking fund has been established, and a statutory instrument (SI) has been issued for the Loans Guarantee (Authorisation) Act, Chapter 366, which gives powers to the hon. Minister of Finance to establish a sinking fund for the purpose of accumulating monies that will be used to repay the Eurobond at maturity. In the same spirit, I wish to announce to this august House that a similar sinking fund was established for the repayment of the other two earlier Eurobonds through the issuance of SI No. 75 of 2015, which was gazetted on 12th October, 2015.
Sir, the setting up of the sinking fund does not preclude other alternatives, such as re-financing options.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, going by the available records, ...
Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your left ask questions to get information. However, I am concerned that some of the answers coming from the Executive are very demeaning to the hon. Members of Parliament on the left. An example is the remark that the young man has just made.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members a point of order has been raised. So, there is no need to shout in that fashion.
Hon. Member for Luena, please, withdraw your reference to the hon. Deputy Minister as a young man.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I withdraw it.
Hon. Opposition Members: Why?
Ms Imenda: Because the Speaker said so.
Mr Speaker, the demeaning remark that the hon. Deputy Minister made about other hon. Members of Parliament is ...
Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!
I just wanted you to withdraw your reference to the hon. Deputy Minister as a young man and you have accordingly done that. The rest, I will deal with subsequently.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I have withdrawn the remark.
Mr Speaker: Yes, you have. So, we are done.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to lecture us and say that we are ignorant?
Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!
The rest of your point of order stands. I just wanted you to withdraw your reference to the hon. Deputy Minister as a young man. I am now rendering my ruling.
Hon. Members, I agree that the manner in which the hon. Deputy Minister responded is very inappropriate. The hon. Members on the left are entitled to ask questions.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Speaker: Order!
I think that it is unfair for the hon. Deputy Minister to assume that the left is in possession of all the information of which the right is in possession. Were it so, what would be the point of asking these questions?
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
So, hon. Members on the right, when you are asked questions, just supply the information. The hon. Members on the left are performing a representative function.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order!
They are here in a representative capacity and some of the questions they ask may come from the constituents, who may not have access to the information they seek.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: The hon. Members on the left may also not have the information. As I have said many times before, the right is not encyclopaedic and, in all fairness, the same is true of the left. It does not have all the information it might need.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: So, I hope I will not have to deal with this issue again.
The hon. Member for Mwembeshi may ask his question.
Hon. Opposition Members: Let him withdraw what he said. He is not an elected hon. Member.
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, I think that it is an issue of being a greenhorn.
Mr Speaker: Pardon me, I did not get that. You said it is an issue of being ...
Hon. Opposition Members: A greenhorn.
Mr Speaker: Order!
I want to hear it from the hon. Member for Mwembeshi.
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, I said a new hon. Member.
Mr Speaker: No, no. Withdraw that as well.
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw it.
Mr Livune: Milambo, mbobucende obo!
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, the available records show that the previous Eurobonds have been grossly mismanaged. What assurance can the hon. Minister give the people of Zambia and me that the latest one will not be used on consumption areas?
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, firstly, I thank you for the guidance and sincerely apologise to any hon. Member who felt demeaned by my statement.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: I commend you for volunteering that apology.
Mr Mvunga: Secondly, Mr Speaker, let me explain the bond process.
Sir, the money does not belong to the Government of the Republic of Zambia, but to fund managers who subscribe to the bond to give us the money, and we are accountable to them. So, to be given the money, we have to explain precisely what we will use it for. We meant to go back on the road show to give them feedback but, being a cost-conscious Government, we decided not to do it this year as part of our fiscal consolidation and in an effort to defray expenses. So, we will do it next year. Eurobond-funded projects are, therefore, guaranteed third-party oversight. So, we will use the money on the projects on which we said we would use it.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that part of the money will be spent on infrastructure development. We have some infrastructure development projects that were contracted when the dollar/kwacha exchange rate was US$1/K5. Today, the rate is US$1/K12. Does the Government not anticipate a loss if we spend the latest Eurobond on those projects?
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, contrary to what Hon. Shakafuswa has said, we anticipate a gain, not a loss. In the past, a dollar gave us K5 but, now it gives us K12. Mind you, the invoices are in kwacha.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: We should be winding up.
Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the people of Kasempa are happy that we have a sinking fund. However, they want to know how the money for the sinking fund is being raised. There is a rumour that we borrowed the money for the fund and that we will borrow again to pay back the money we borrowed for the sinking fund.
Ms Lubezhi: We are sinking!
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, we need to contextualise issues. The Republic of Zambia has other sources of revenue apart from the bond borrowings. So, the money for the sinking fund is allocated from the total domestic revenues that have been budgeted for in 2016. So, we are not borrowing to pay back the Eurobond.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, lately, I have noticed that there is a lot of infrastructure development going on, particularly on roads in all the constituencies in Lusaka City. Is the money being spent on those projects part of that Eurobond? Additionally, how much of the Eurobond money has been allocated to Luena? I ask this because the people of Luena want to know what their share of that bond is.
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, let me explain the function of the Ministry of Finance. Our role is to fund projects based on requests made by sector ministries. The projects are triggered either by the Ministry of Works and Supply, for urban roads, or the local authorities, for rural roads. So, we do not actually initiate or trigger the projects or make decisions on which roads to fund. All we do is receive requests for the roads to be worked on. The approval of the road projects is something that even hon. Members of Parliament are involved in, particularly at the local level. Therefore, I do not think that I am the competent authority to answer the hon. Member’s question.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, at the time of contracting, the currency in which the sums of money were quoted is the kwacha whose value has, under the leadership of the Patriotic Front (PF) and Mr Edgar Lungu, drastically plummeted. Will the Government pay the contractors more money than what was initially agreed to, considering the fall in the value of the kwacha relative to major foreign currencies?
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, recently, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) issued a guideline that the legal tender for the Government of the Republic of Zambia is the kwacha and that all transactions should be done in kwacha. The fact that we got the money in dollars does not mean that the contractors are also paid in that currency. So, the invoice amount has remained the same.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Mvunga: It is the same thing with my salary, which has remained the same despite the change in the kwacha/dollar exchange rate. I cannot say that the Government should review it on that account. The fluctuation in currency exchange rates is a natural phenomenon in business. There are ups and downs. Otherwise, if the kwacha gained value against the dollar, what would the next question be? So, to answer that question, in a nutshell, the contracting amount is in kwacha and so is the payment. The dollar/kwacha conversion rates do not apply in this case.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, this Government has an insatiable appetite for borrowing, yet there are many collectible taxes that go uncollected. When will you critically look at our capacity, as a Government, to collect taxes within the country so as to fund some of these projects from monies generated within the country? So, when will we borrow once to capacitate the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) so that we minimise on borrowing?
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I think that the general philosophy of business, even in the private sector, is that expanding a business is not done using the regular revenue. One needs to step-up and exponentially grow. There is a need for an external shock to come in, and this happens in every country. I cannot recall how many economies currently do not have debt on their books globally.
Mr Speaker, the question that begs an answer is simply: What is our aspiration as Zambians? Do we want to borrow and grow into a developed nation or remain a debt-free, but undeveloped economy? The decision is up to Zambians. We will execute programmes based on the mandate given to us. If we want to stagnate, the Government can easily stop spending. However, if we want to develop the nation and add value to the lives of the people of Zambia, it is necessary to borrow and move to the next stage. That is the only way to grow our economy exponentially. Growing our economy organically will take us 200 years to achieve what we can achieve in thirty years through borrowing. If the borrowing was for consumption, I would agree with the hon. Member that it is wrong. Borrowing for capital projects, however, is different because the projects will generate revenues in the future and expand the economy. We have to be mindful, therefore, of exactly what we want. Should we stop development projects? If I suggested to this House, right now, that we stop all the road projects, what would the response be?
Sir, we are a responsible Government …
Mr Livune: Question!
Mr Mvunga: … that will not be driven by emotion …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mvunga: … and speculation. We will do what we think befits the people of Zambia who gave us the mandate to rule this country and drive the economy forward. That is why we are borrowing.
I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
____
MOTION
WAYS AND MEANS
The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move the Motion that the House do now resolve into Committee of Ways and Means to consider the raising of supply.
Sir, I am a bearer of six messages from His Excellency the President recommending that these Motions, which I now lay on the Table, be considered in this House.
Mr Chikwanda laid the paper on the Table.
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, following the Budget that I presented to this House on 9th October, 2015, it is necessary to introduce certain financial measures that I will outline in the Committee.
Sir, I beg to move.
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion on the Floor. In so doing, I want to recognise the challenges that the hon. Minister of Finance faces in meeting his commitments in this financial year.
Sir, the task before the hon. Minister of Finance in meeting his objectives is enormous. Among the serious challenges he faces are falling commodity prices and the energy shortage crisis which, in his wisdom, meant that he had to tax the citizens of this country more in order to meet his obligations.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance presented to us a Budget that needs deficit financing. So, he has to go out of his way to look for finances, like the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance mentioned, including through borrowing on the international market to finance projects in the country. While that might be beneficial to Zambia, it is also a liability to the country because he is borrowing to meet his commitments but, at the end of it all, the loans are not free of charge. The people of Zambia will be made to pay the loans that we are borrowing.
Mr Speaker, today, I drove on a very good road in Rhodes Park.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: That, in itself, is good. However, that road was not financed by our resources, but by borrowed money. So, while it is good to drive on a very good road, is the cost to the people of Zambia worth it? Are we able to sustain the cost?
Sir, in the first quarter of this year, I asked a question on infrastructure development. The Government had decided to work on 8,000 km of roads in Zambia, which is very good. Every Zambian would be happy to have 8,000 km of good roads. Our plan was to implement the project in five years, which means that we had to work on 1,600 km every year. However, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply has told the House that only 400 km of roads have been worked on since 2012. So, we are behind on meeting the commitment we made to the people of Zambia. What has gone wrong? Has the nation’s money gone into a black hole? At the end of the day, the Patriotic Front (PF) will be held to account by the people of Zambia.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: It cannot just make pronouncements without following through on them. It will be held to account because the resources it is misusing are not for the PF, but the people of Zambia.
Sir, to make things worse, the hon. Minister of Finance ...
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, please, resume your seat.
I have been very reluctant to do what I am doing now, ...
Mr Shakafuswa resumed his seat.
Mr Speaker: … but I am compelled to. The Motion you are debating is a procedural one. It is meant to pave the way for a debate of those instruments. It seeks the endorsement of the House of the proposal that we resolve into Committee. When we begin looking at those instruments, you will be at large to debate. Please, bear that in mind as you continue.
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, this is my twelfth year in this House and I have debated this Motion in each of those twelve years.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, are you contesting my guidance?
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Would you like to do that?
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I will not contest your ruling, ...
Hon. Opposition Members: But ...
Mr Shakafuswa: ... but the hon. Minister of Finance has moved a Motion in which he wishes to propose ways and means of raising the resources needed to finance the obligations of this country.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: In simple terms, in moving this Motion, the hon. Minister of Finance has a very difficult task.
Sir, I want the hon. Minister of Finance, his ministry and those charged with the responsibility of mobilising resources for the benefit of this country to be very careful because we know that what is recoverable from Zambia’s gross domestic product (GDP) is 18 to 20 per cent. We have been very optimistic with the Budget yet, between the Budget and what we are looking for, what is recoverable is between 25 and 35 per cent. I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Finance to assure the nation that we will be able to meet our obligations from our own resources. Otherwise, the people of Zambia will pay heavily through high interest rates and increased obligations. So, I want to see the pressure that has been put on the people of Zambia eased so that they can have a breather.
Sir, I know that the Government really wants to meet its obligations to the people of Zambia. To be honest, it is not only the hon. Members on your right who have expansionary ideas, but also this side of the House, we also tell the people of Zambia that we will give them free fertiliser, education and health care.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: These would be expansionary expenditures that we would not be able to accommodate within our limits. I, therefore, wish to ask the hon. Minister of Finance to show some goodwill by giving the people of Zambia a rest from debt obligations and deficit financing so that they can live better lives.
With those very few words, I thank you, Sir.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, in accordance with your guidance, we have, so far, been looking at the expenditure side of the 2016 Budget and the hon. Minister’s Motion is about finding ways and means of raising the money that will finance the expenditure.
Mr Speaker, in the past, Zambia used to finance its deficit through donations from its co-operating partners, who were then called donors. However, of late, the taxpayers in the donor countries have been asking why their taxes are financing other countries. Therefore, the modus operandi now is for Zambia to mobilise its own revenue internally. I think that is what this is all about.
Mr Speaker, I know that there are many ways of mobilising resources, but one that has not been used is that of toll gates.
Dr Kalila: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: We spend a lot of money on building and maintaining road infrastructure, yet we get very little from the trucks that pass through our country and damage our roads in the process. Most of us have flown to South Africa. I, for one, went there by road sometime back and saw that, starting from Zimbabwe through to South Africa, there are toll gates at which revenue is collected from the vehicles that use the roads. There may be variations in the mode used in Zimbabwe, but the country still collects revenue. Here, in Zambia, on the other hand, vehicles use our roads without paying anything.
Sir, in South African, there is very good road infrastructure with flyover bridges and criss-crossing roads. It is really a marvel, and I always feel envious when I see that. All those roads eventually converge at a toll gate where revenue is collected. With the revenue collected, the authorities are able to maintain and improve the infrastructure. So, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and the Executive arm of the Government to be serious about the issue of toll gates so that they can raise funds to add to the internally mobilised resources. This is one of the ways in which they will be able to finance their deficit Budget.
Mr Speaker, additionally, we are always talking about investors. When I go around the country, especially in Lusaka, I see many fuelling stations that I am told are owned by investors. Why have they come to trade in fuel when we are not even an oil producing country? We import fuel using our meagre foreign exchange and the so-called investors come to trade in it and make money. I would like to suggest something to the hon. Minister of Finance, as one of the domestic means of resource mobilisation. Already, in the Central Business District (CBD) of this town, it is very difficult to find parking space. Why do we not encourage those investors to build multi-storey parking lots from which we can get extra revenue? Those are just my thoughts.
With those very few words, I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion for their constructive comments. I also assure them that their comments will be taken on board.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
_________
COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX ACT
The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act, and that a Bill to give effect to this be presented.
Sir, it is expedient to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to:
(a) revise the rates of tax applicable on transfer of property; and
(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, I think that this Motion has been moved at an appropriate time because many corporate entities have been avoiding this charge. So, the hon. Minister of Finance will have to work with his counterpart at Commerce, Trade and Industry to bring that to a halt.
Sir, when property is transferred, the Property Transfer Tax is usually not paid. Some people just change the deeds at the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry without paying the tax. So, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance to investigate how the transfer of shares is being done without the relevant tax being paid to the Government.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, indeed, I think is it appropriate that the Property Transfer Tax be amended now. However, I hope that this amendment will not only revise the rates, but also the technicalities that have, so far, made it easy for people to avoid this tax. So, I hope that the amendment will reduce tax avoidance.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I thank the two hon. Members for their contributions.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Question put and agreed to.
THE VALUE ADDED TAX ACT
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax, and that a Bill to give effect to this be presented.
Sir, it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax so as to:
(a) prohibit companies dealing only in exempt supplies from being eligible to be treated as part of a recognised group of companies;
(b) provide for confidentiality of taxpayers’ information;
(c) provide for the use of fiscal cash registers or other equipment in recording daily sales; and
(d) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate. I am aware that a Bill will be presented to this House. So, my debate will be brief.
Sir, the Value Added Tax is a tax on consumption that applies to everyone.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!
I would like to guide that the Bill has not been presented to the House yet. So, do not debate it. We are debating the expediency of amending the Act and presenting the Bill for debate. Therefore, be accordingly guided.
You may continue.
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, in view of your guidance, I will wait for the Bill to be presented to the House.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, again, I am eternally indebted to the House for the support.
I thank you, Sir
Question put and agreed to.
THE CUSTOMS AND EXERCISE ACT
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Customs and Excise Act, and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.
Mr Chairperson, it is expedient to amend the Customs and Exercise Act so as to:
(a) remove customs duty on green houses and rose seedlings;
(b) revise the customs duty rates applicable to the importation of motor vehicles and impose a surtax on the importation of vehicles older than five years;
(c) increase specific excise duty rates on tobacco products;
(d) provide for the keeping of transactional records for a minimum period of six years; and
(e) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.
Sir, I thank the House for the support.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
THE INCOME TAX ACT
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act, and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.
Mr Chairperson, it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act so as to:
(a) extend the application of the ten-year period for carrying forward of losses to businesses carrying on electricity generation;
(b) extend the application of withholding tax on management and consultancy fees to resident consultants;
(c) clarify the tax treatment of winnings from gaming, lotteries and betting when such winnings are by virtue of employment or office held;
(d) remove the withholding tax applicable on the discount income of Government bonds;
(e) increase the capital allowance rate from 25 per cent to 50 per cent for businesses carrying on electricity generation;
(f) clarify that only companies whose shares are listed on the Lusaka Stock Exchange qualify for a reduced corporate tax rate; and
(g) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.
Mr Chairperson, I thank the House for its support.
Question put and agreed to.
THE LANDS ACT
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Lands Act, and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.
Mr Chairperson, it is expedient to amend the Lands Act so as to:
(a) revise the circumstances under which consideration is payable in respect of the alienation of land;
(b) revise the percentage of consideration to be paid into the Land Development Fund; and
(c) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I propose that the hon. Minister of Finance works with his counterpart at the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to prevent situations in which land is transferred together with shares that are transferred and, as a result, people do not pay tax on land transferred. Currently, when people want to acquire land, all they do is exchange shares and the Government of the people of Zambia does not get anything from the transaction. So, I think it will be very expedient for the two hon. Ministers to work together in tracking people who acquire shares in companies without paying the necessary tax on land transfer. I hope that can be done.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I thank the House for the support. I also assure the hon. Member for Katuba that his views will be taken on board.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
INSURANCE PREMIUM LEVY ACT
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to introduce the Insurance Premium Levy Act, and that a Bill to give effect to this be presented accordingly.
Sir, it is expedient to introduce the Insurance Premium Levy Act so as to provide for:
(a) the imposition, payment and collection of an insurance premium levy; and
(b) matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Sir, I beg to move.
Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Members for their unanimous support.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
________
HOUSE RESUMED
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Resolutions reported.
Report adopted.
Question put and agreed to, and Mr Speaker appointed the hon. Minister of Finance to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bills to give effect to the resolutions of the Committee of Ways and Means.
______
BILLS
FIRST READING
THE PROPERTY TRANSFER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2015
The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to, the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE VALUE ADDED TAX (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2015
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to, the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2015
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE INCOME TAX (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2015
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to, the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE LANDS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2015
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Lands (Amendment) Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to, the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE INSURANCE PREMIUM LEVY BILL, 2015
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled the Insurance Premium Levy Bill, 2015.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 20th November, 2015.
All hon. Members who wish to make submissions on, or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
_____________
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
(Consideration resumed)
VOTE 85 − (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – K230,931,391).
(Consideration resumed)
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection.
Mr Chairperson, the management of land in Zambia has, for some time now, been chaotic. As a result, many people believe that land is very scarce in Zambia when that is not the case. Many people will be able to access land if it is well managed.
Mr Chairperson, in the past, …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The consultations on my near right are rather loud. Can you, please, moderate them.
May the hon. Member for Chongwe, continue.
Mrs Masebo: Sir, in the past, it was not as difficult as it has become to acquire land in most of our districts, especially in Lusaka Province, be it in the big cities or small towns like Chongwe. I think that one of the problems is that we have kind of centralised the allocation of land to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. As a result, we find ourselves having many problems in this area.
Mr Chairperson, I was very encouraged this week when the Council Secretary for Chongwe informed me that the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection had sent a circular to the council, which contained guidelines on the allocation of land. I was particularly happy to note that the guidelines are basically the same guidelines as those we were using in the past, but were, over the years, not being followed by the local authorities and the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. That is why we found ourselves having many problems.
Sir, what has happened now is that the ministry has re-emphasised the regulations and directed councils to advertise whenever there is land to be allocated so that everybody is made aware and able to apply, to conduct interviews and to forward the names of those who are deemed able to construct to the ministry. The ministry, then, makes the final decision on who should be allocated the land. The ministry, through the councils, should again advertise the names of successful land applicants. That is what we used to do but, over the years, people started going directly to the ministry, leaving the councils in the dark. The councils only see people with letters stating that they should pay some fees towards the acquisition of particular pieces of land. That has caused many problems for our councils, particularly in Chongwe. We now have so much development going on in the district, but we, the owners of the district, are not aware of how the land was allocated. With the new circular that the ministry has issued, I hope that we can see a change.
Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection must be very cautious, especially regarding districts like Chongwe, which is still partly traditional. I have seen the ministry move on some land it says is State land, and start to demarcate it and allocate it to people. In most cases, the demarcation and allocation of the land is politicised, with political party cadres taking over the process. I think we should move away from this cadreism and let the Executive run the country. Currently, this country is run by cadres, which is a very dangerous phenomenon. Zambians elected us hon. Members of Parliament. Those among us who were lucky enough to also be appointed into the Executive should run the show or, if they have failed, say so. I am sure that there are many of us here who can do better than …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mvunga: Question!
Mrs Masebo: … fail to run a ministry and allow cadres to take over, which very dangerous.
Mr Chairperson, the politicisation of everything that we do is dangerous for the country. Our people have learnt that the best way to survive is to pretend to belong to the party in Government. That is why, immediately there is a new Government, everybody suddenly becomes a member of the ruling party. Normally, it is the same people who keep changing political affiliations.
Mr Mbewe: They are visionary.
Mrs Masebo: Somebody says that they are visionary.
Mr Kapyanga: Mwalishibana.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, in a country that has no leadership, where gangsters have taken over leadership, …
Mr Muntanga: Are you sure?
Mrs Masebo: … it can become dangerous even for the leaders.
Mr Muntanga: Yes!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Whatever we sow, we shall reap.
Mr Muntanga: Yes!
Mrs Masebo: It is the same even when we talk about violence. If you encourage violence, it will catch up with you. It is just a question of time. That is what I know. If you organise cadres or youths to boo somebody, tomorrow they will boo you. That is what normally happens. So, if we allow anarchy in the alienation of land by allowing people to take over others’ land illegally because we are in the Government and think that our land is protected, it is just a matter of time before someone takes over our land, too. So, in issues of governance, let us forget our political affiliations because political ties and people change. What I think is important is that when we have a Government in place, we respect it, and its members respect themselves and to run the country …
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … without looking at regional, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … political, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … or religious affiliations.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Neither should we look at whether one is our friend or not. We should merely look at the whole country and its people, considering that we cannot all be hon. Ministers, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … hon. Members of Parliament, …
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … or Heads of State at the same time …
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … even though some of us can make better Heads of State.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, the point here is simply that we cannot all hold the same position at the same time.
Mr Chairperson, as you know, Lusaka District has a shortage of land. The only land remaining is in the area that leads to the east, in my brother, Hon. Shakafuswa’s area, and near Kafue. Let me take this opportunity to let the people of Lusaka Province know that Her Royal Highness Chieftainess Nkomesha Mukamambo II has welcomed everybody to her area.
Mr Muntanga: Yes!
Mrs Masebo: She is happy to have all of you here in Lusaka.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Yes!
Mrs Masebo: The hon. Members of Parliament for constituencies here in Lusaka District, Chilanga and Kafue will bear testimony to what I am saying. The Chieftainess does not segregate, and is a very happy person. She treats everybody equally. However, the message I bring from her and the people of Lusaka Province is that, as we do whatever we are doing, we must remember that this area has owners.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: So, in planning and sharing, it is important that the relevant authorities take note of that.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: They should not exclude the owners of the area. Likewise, it is important that the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and the Government of the day, in whatever they do in this province, remember that this area has its own people and that the people have elected leaders at the local and national levels. They also have traditional leaders and all of them must be consulted. The Government, especially this Patriotic Front (PF) Administration, has caused too many problems.
Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, this problem started under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. If you recall, it created problems between the then President and Her Royal Highness. That is why we changed the Government and brought in the PF, hoping that it would be different. Unfortunately, the PF is now behaving worse than the MMD ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … on the issue of land alienation in this province.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: On a point of jealousy.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order.
Sir, I have been struggling to follow the debate of the hon. Member on the Floor because she seems to have gone shopping. She has gone back and forth, talking about Lusaka Province, where we all are, land and alienation. She knows very well that the issue of land alienation requires hers and everybody’s concerted effort ...
Hon. UPND Members: That is what she is saying.
Mr Kampyongo: … because some of the people who are at the centre of the activities she has complained about are in her council. Further, in her debate, she has blamed the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, yet she is a member of the PF. Is she in order to debate in that manner without declaring whether she has defected from the PF …
Mr Mwila: Hear, hear! UPND!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: … to some unknown political party or has opted to become an Independent?
Mr Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling.
Hon. UPND Members: Monde!
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, the mind of man, and that includes the mind of woman, cannot be tried because even the devil does not know what is on it.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: For as long as she carries herself as a Patriotic Front (PF) member, she is in order to debate in the manner she is debating.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Masebo, you may continue.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, all I was saying is that our approach to the business of land alienation must be nationalistic. Whether I am PF or not is not the issue. The fact remains that, for now, it is the PF Government that is running the show. I have already made reference to the MMD Government and the reason it lost in Chongwe, which had to do with land issues. Now, I am talking about the PF Government, which we thought would be different, but is actually worse than the MMD.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: So, the leadership of the PF should change. Otherwise, it will have problems.
Mr Chairperson, does the Government know that half of the land meant for Palabana University and Palabana Institute, has been demarcated into plots and the plots have been shared?
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mrs Masebo: These are the same problems we had with the previous Administration on the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) land, which was shared mainly by politicians. All these things happen while the owners of the land are just watching. For example, none of the teachers at Palabana have got any land and they are complaining. As though that was not enough, the same thing was done to the airport land. So, all we are saying is that when there is a piece of land, there is a need for transparency. The land has to be advertised and the local people must be considered with the rest of the applicants. In the case of the Palabana land, even I, the area Member of Parliament, have not got any piece of land. Do those people appropriating that land think that I do not want any? The reason I am not fighting to get any land there is that I am a leader who wants to make sure that the local people benefit first.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: However, some greedy people got ten or 100 plots. Where will they take all of them?
Ms Lubezhi: Quality!
Mrs Masebo: Sir, we need to stop being greedy. Those who are involved, whether in this House or outside, should remember that there may be different people in the Government next year. If they continue to be greedy and take everything that they come across, like they have never owned property in their lives, just because they are in positions of authority, they will end up losing. We have seen many people assume some offices and acquire a lot of property but, some years down the line, they die and leave everything and their children lose everything. So, we should stop this greed. Some of us have survived long in this House because we are not selfish, ...
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: … but think of the people we lead. That is what we are and it is why we can stand strong and speak out on issues. Nobody in Chongwe can say that I have taken land at the expense of the people. There are many people in this country, both in the Government and outside it, who are very greedy.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was saying that those who hold positions of influence should avoid being greedy. I will conclude my submissions shortly, seeing as I only have one minute of my time left.
Sir, for God’s sake, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection should do things the proper way and in accordance with our rules and regulations. She needs to ensure that the Chongwe District Council participates in the allocation of land in its jurisdiction. It should be noted that Chongwe District hosts Her Royal Highness Chieftainess Nkomesha II, and there is nothing like State land or traditional land there. The land in Lusaka Province belongs to the people of the province. So, they must be involved in its allocation.
Mr Speaker, going back to the issue of the Palabana land that people have shared, I want it to revert to the institution before people end up in problems. There is no way land reserved for agriculture should be demarcated into residential plots. It is not supposed to be like that. Equally, the community at NISIR does not want the NISIR land along Great East Road to be given away without its consent and that of the council. So, the bad governance trends should stop, for God’s sake.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on this Vote. My concern is on environmental protection.
Sir, we can see the effects of our lack of concern for environmental protection. We have done things the wrong way and are seeing the effects on our climate.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The consultations on my far right are rather loud. Hon. Mbewe, please, moderate your voice.
Laughter
Hon. Imenda, you may continue.
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, we are seeing the result of not protecting our environment. We are seeing the climate patterns changing and are at the receiving end of this phenomenon. We are experiencing drought and a change in seasons. Now, when the rains are supposed to fall, we are experiencing winter conditions. Our lack of concern for the environment has caused climate change, and that should concern us, especially the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, which is tasked with the responsibility of protecting our environment.
Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about conservation. Our forests are under attack. We cannot find big trees in our forests anymore because of illegal logging and export of timber. The rosewood and mukula trees are under attack. Other tree species are also under attack, but these two have come to prominence because they seem to be on high demand. What do we, the owners of these trees, get? Nothing. It looks like nobody is concerned about deforestation. Nobody wants to listen to anything on this issue.
Sir, some people think that trees are there to be cut. So far, nobody has been arrested for illegal logging. So, some people think that it is not a problem. They do not even know where I got this information about illegal logging. So, I urge the ministry, especially the Forestry Department, if it can, to send people to the Lusaka/Mongu Road tonight. It is already late for them to get to Tateyoyo Wildlife Camp, but they can go to Nalusanga Wildlife Camp. If they went there between 1800 hours and 0600 hours, they would find not less than six trucks laden with logs coming from the Western side. My frustration is that I find trucks laden with logs each time I travel on that road at night but, during day time, they park in a hiding place. Once, I took photographs of a truck laden with timber, and the hon. Member for Kaoma Central can bear witness to this incident.
Sir, the people involved in illegal logging are politicians, but I will not mention their names. The truck I photographed belonged to a councillor, who even had the audacity to ask me why I was photographing his truck. Recently, I was coming from Mongu around 0300 hours. Again, I found three trucks at the Nalusanga Checkpoint laden with timber. I confronted the people at the checkpoint for not doing anything about those trucks. However, it was not their duty to do anything because they are Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officers, not Forestry Department staff. We have the problem of illegal logging and export of timber. My sister, Hon. Miti, can also bear witness to this because she shares my frustration. She once impounded a truckload of mukula trees, but the truck was later released by the police. That is my frustration.
Sir, even the people who issue licences at the Forestry Department are not clean because there is something fishy about the way they issue the licences. The police are also not serious about this issue. Even if we say that the timber being harvested is not illegally logged, how does the ministry monitor the people who are licensed to cut the timber? If one is licensed to cut 100 m3 of timber, how does the ministry ensure that only 100 m3 is harvested when there is no following up or monitoring by the Forestry Department? Who benefits from our trees that go outside the country? I challenge the ministry to answer that question because I believe that some officers at the ministry, who are supposed to monitor the harvesting of timber, and the politicians are the ones benefiting. That is why they are not doing something about the problem, and that is my frustration. In fact, I suggest that the hon. Minister temporarily suspends the issuance of logging licences and exporting of timber so that we can undertake an audit of our forests. We need to know where we stand and implement the Forestry Bill that we passed in this House. Otherwise, the passing of that Bill was an exercise in futility.
Mr Chairperson, part of the allocations we will vote for is supposed to be for reforestation. Even if reforestation has not been funded in this Budget, it has been funded in previous budgets. I once visited the Forestry Department in Mongu to find out how I could help the people of Luena participate in reforestation because I had been told that some tree seedlings were available for planting. The person in charge of the Forestry Department in Mongu told me that the people in Luena had to go to Mongu to get the seedlings. That man, who was supposed to implement the reforestation programme to which we have been allocating funds, was comfortable to tell me that his duty was just to sit in his office like a consultant while people in villages 80 km away travelled by oxcarts, through forests where there are no proper roads, to Mongu to get seedlings to plant in their areas. My thinking was that part of the reason we have a department dealing with reforestation is for it to sensitise the public on the subject and take the seedlings to places where people can plant them. Otherwise, why do we appropriate money to the department when the officers in charge of reforestation do not want to implement the programme? Are we doing it so that somebody can just sit in an office somewhere and get a salary at the end of the month without doing anything? I would not like to see that happen.
Mr Chairperson, let me mention my other frustration. In fact, I should have stated from the outset that the theme for my debate is, “My frustrations with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection.”
Laughter
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I am frustrated with the issue of land allocation. Would you believe that I have lived on this planet, in a country called Zambia for over fifty years, but I have never been given land by the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection despite having applied several times? I even had a letter from Bridget Mwanakaoma, a Permanent Secretary (PS) in the ministry, ...
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!
Debate issues, not yourself.
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I am just talking about the fact that the allocation of land is not fair, and agreeing with my sister, Hon. Masebo, that there is something terribly wrong with the way the ministry administers the allocation of land. I have been applying for land, but I have not been allocated any, so far. I do not know whether I will only be allocated land when I pass something under the table to someone. Anyway, I will try applying again.
Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.
The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Ms Ngimbu): Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members of this august House who debated the 2016 Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection for their valuable comments and observations.
Sir, I have taken note of all the observations and concerns and know that the comments are not meant to merely criticise my ministry, but also to help it to improve the management and administration of land and the environment in the country.
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Ms Ngimbu: I want to specifically thank Hon. Hamududu, Hon. Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo, Hon. Imenda and Hon. Masebo. However, I must inform Hon. Masebo that we are One Zambia, One Nation.
Mr Muntanga: So?
Ms Ngimbu: Every person is free to live anywhere.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Ngimbu: I can give a very good example of my constituency, Zambezi West, where we have some Tongas.
Laughter
Ms Ngimbu: Equally, there are many Luvales in the Southern Province, the land of the Tongas. Some villagers there have even changed their names from ‘Chinyama,’ to ‘Hichinyama’.
Laughter
Ms Ngimbu: That is because we are one nation. It is a good thing for a chief or chieftainess to accommodate people from elsewhere. In fact, he or she should be proud to receive more people in his or her chiefdom.
Mr Mwila: Yes!
Ms Ngimbu: So, I was shocked to hear her say that Zambians from other areas should not be accommodated in her constituency.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Mwila: Mulekeni alande!
The Deputy Chairperson: Allow the hon. Minister to respond.
Ms Ngimbu: Sir, I would also like to inform Hon. Masebo that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has not failed to run this country and is trying its best. I am happy to see her debate in this august House because she is quite an experienced politician and we all know that. She was initially a member of the National Party (NP), then, she joined other parties, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and, later, the PF.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!
Allow the hon. Minister to wind up the debate, although I also ask her not to debate other hon. Members.
Ms Ngimbu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance.
Sir, if anything, it is she who has failed the PF Government, not the Government failing the country. We are aware of the issues affecting this country and know what we are doing about them. In any case, the door is still open, my sister. After all, she is still a PF Member.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
VOTE 85/01 – (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – Human Resource and Administration – K37,924,922).
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1137, Activity 027 – Tender Committee Meetings – K119,070. The increment from K9,965 to K119,070 is huge. Why is there such an increment? What will be happening in the meetings?
The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Mwango): Mr Chairperson, could the hon. Member for Mapatizya repeat his question.
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Mapatizya, please, repeat your question, but let us also be attentive. The hon. Members close to hon. Ministers should not disturb them.
Mr Miyanda repeated his question.
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1137, Activity 027 – Tender Committee Meetings – K119,070, is meant to meet the operational costs of holding tender committee meetings. The increase is due to the expected rise in the number of such meetings.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1277, Activity 015 – Index Review – Nil, and Activity 017 – Creation of Registry Database and Scanning – Nil. Why have the two important activities been discontinued when there have been problems in the management of documents, particularly title deeds, at the ministry?
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1277, Activity 015 – Index Review – Nil, has not been budgeted for because it has been completed this year.
I thank you, Sir
The Deputy Chairperson: What about Programme 1277, Activity 017 – Creation of Registry Database and Scanning – Nil?
Mr Mwango: Sir, that activity has also been completed this year.
The Deputy Chairperson: Ms Mutelo, …
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Mutelo, sorry.
Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Thank you, Sir. Of course, Ms Lubezhi is Mrs Mutelo.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: No wonder I made that mistake.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1137, Activity 020 – Consolidation of Procurement Plans – K17,110. I am concerned about the increase in the allocation to this activity from K5,340, in 2015, to K17,110, in 2016. Why has there been such a huge increment?
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1137, Activity 020 – Production of Asset Register – K53,276, is required to meet the cost of consolidating procurement plans for the ministry. The increase is due to the implementation of improved procurement procedures.
I thank you, Sir.
VOTE 85/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 85/02 – (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – Lands and Deeds Department – K3,252,269).
The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Mutelo.
Mr Mutelo: Thank, Mr Chairperson. Finally, I am ‘Mr Mutelo’.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1147, Activity 002 – Production of Certificate of Title Deeds (AIA) – K150,000. Why is there a decrease from K420,900 to K150,000? Maybe, this is why we have problems in the issuance of title deeds.
The Deputy Chairperson: As you ask the question, bear in mind that this Budget is for next year.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, we allocated K420,900 to the activity this year, yet we still had problems in the issuance of title deeds. So, why is there a decrease in the allocation for 2016? Will the reduction not worsen the problems next year?
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, the decrease in the allocation to Programme 1147, Activity 002 – Production of Certificate of Title Deeds (AIA) K150,000, is due to rationalisation of resources.
Interruptions
Mr Mwango: Sir, the decrease is due to rationalisation of resources.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 85/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 85/03 – (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – Lands Department – K44,038,961).
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K130,000. There is an increase in the allocation to administration. My concern is that most of our Budget is going to administration, not service delivery. Why is there an increase in the allocation to general administration instead of service delivery?
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, the increase in the allocation to Programme 1001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K130,000, is due to the increased costs arising from the opening of the Muchinga Provincial Lands Office.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K575,652. Throughout the activity, there is an increase except in this division. Does the ministry want to frustrate the people in Division II by decreasing their allocation while increasing the allocation for the other divisions?
Mr Mwango: Sir, the decrease in the allocation to Programme 1000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K575,652, is due to the movement of some Division II officers to Division I.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 85/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 85/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 85/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 85/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 85/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 85/10 – (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – Zambia Forestry College – K5,370,969).
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1083, Activity 006 – Raising of Pine Seedlings – Nil. Why is there no allocation to this activity in 2016?
The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Chairperson, there is no allocation to Programme 1083, Activity 006 – Raising of Pine Seedlings in 2016 because the seedlings were raised in 2015.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1083, Activity 031 ‒ Forest Protection ‒ Nil. Why is there no allocation to this activity next year when we have just passed a Bill to protect our forests?
Mr Mwango: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1083, Activity 031 ‒ Forest Protection, has not been budgeted for due to rationalisation of resources.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1083, Activity 014 ‒ Beekeeping ‒ Nil. Why is there no allocation to this important activity in 2016?
Mrs Kawandami: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1083, Activity 014 ‒ Beekeeping has not been budgeted for due to rationalisation of resources.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 85/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 64 – (Ministry of Works and Supply – K217,325,542).
The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I sincerely thank you for allowing me to present to this august House the proposed budget for my ministry in 2016.
Sir, this august House will recall that it approved the rebirth of the Ministry of Works and Supply, whose mandate was being executed by the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication before then. In my address, I will endeavour to clearly outline the 2016 policy direction for the ministry.
Sir, this august House is aware that my ministry is strategically poised to facilitate the construction and maintenance of public infrastructure as the country continues on its socio-economic development path. My ministry is also responsible for the management of Government transport, and the printing of gazettes and other Government and legislative publications.
Mr Chairperson, let me hasten to mention that, while the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication has been split into two ministries, namely, the Ministry of Transport and Communication, and the Ministry of Works and Supply, there are some interlinked functions on which the two ministries will continue to closely collaborate. These involve the functions associated with public works, such as the construction of airports and aerodromes, roads and canals.
Mr Chairperson, the priority programmes for my ministry will remain within the confines of the pronouncements on infrastructure development in His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s Speech during the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. The priorities are also in line with the programmes in the Revised Sixth National Development Plan (R-SNDP). Thus, my ministry will prioritise the implementation of strategic interventions in infrastructure development in line with the proposed Budget for 2016.
Mr Chairperson, before I outline the Ministry of Works and Supply’s programmes for 2016, allow me to share some of the achievements recorded by the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication in 2015.
Airport Infrastructure
Sir, in 2015, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication facilitated the commencement of the modernisation of the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA). This will not only increase the capacity of the airport with a view to increasing its capacity to handle higher volumes of passenger and cargo traffic, but also create jobs for the youths. As you may be aware, the construction of the Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International Airport (HMNIA) is almost complete. Once completed, the airport will facilitate local and international connectivity to the Southern region of our country and promote Zambia’s tourism capital, Livingstone.
Development of Infrastructure in New Provincial Headquarters and Districts
Mr Chairperson, the ministry was facilitating the construction of provincial office blocks in Chinsali and Choma. The two structures are 65 per cent complete. In addition, the construction of housing units in both provinces is progressing well at 67 per cent completion. The ministry also engaged over 250 local contractors to construct housing units, office blocks, police stations and post offices in both the newly-created districts and the old ones across the country. That has resulted in the empowerment of local contractors, retaining of wealth within the economy and creation of over 3,000 job opportunities for the Zambians.
Road Infrastructure
Sir, in the road sector, the Government has continued to implement the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project, with an estimated 2,700 km of road under construction. The Lusaka 400 Kilometre (L400) is at 56 per cent completion and most of the roads are open to traffic while the Mongu/Kalabo Road, which has the largest number of bridges, is at 85 per cent completion.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Additionally, 1,043.75 km of roads have been resurfaced, making the transportation of both people and goods faster and cheaper. The ministry also facilitated the commencement of the construction of the Kazungula Bridge, whose aim is to enhance regional trade and integration. This project has been on paper for a long time and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government intends to see it completed within the projected period of four years.
Recapitalisation of the Government Printing Department
Sir, the recapitalisation of the Government Printing Department was prioritised in 2015. To that effect, I sincerely thank all the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting our budget for 2015, which enabled the Government to successfully implement that programme.
Programmes in 2016
Mr Chairperson, allow me, now, to focus on the 2016 proposed budget for the Ministry of Works and Supply.
Sir, in order to implement the priority programmes in 2016, my ministry proposes to spend K217,325,542.
Sir, my ministry will continue to support the operations of the Hostels Board of Management (HBM), Engineering Services Corporation (ESCO), the National Council for Construction (NCC) and the Road Development Agency (RDA).
Road Infrastructure
Sir, the implementation of the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometres Road Project, Pave Zambia 2,000 Kilometres Road Project, L400 and Copperbelt 400 Kilometre Road Project (C400) will continue to be prioritised in 2016, as the ministry remains convinced that the implementation of these projects is key to the socio-economic development of our great nation. In order to relieve pressure from the Treasury, my ministry will actively engage the private sector to facilitate the upgrading of six roads that are deemed economically viable into dual carriageways. In addition, it will work with the Ministry of Finance to strategise on how to engage the many financial institutions that have expressed a willingness to partner with the Government in developing road infrastructure. The rationale behind this approach is that we enter into win-win partnerships, not ones in which the Government is exploited.
Tolling
Sir, it is pointless to investment so much in the road network without providing resources for its maintenance. To this end, my ministry will accelerate the implementation of the National Road Tolling Programme so that the Government can generate the revenue that is needed to maintain the road infrastructure.
Airport in Ndola
Sir, with the increased number of international flights into Ndola on the Copperbelt, my ministry will continue to collaborate with all stakeholder ministries to accelerate the commencement of the development of a greenfield international airport in that town. That will definitely improve efficiency and enhance safety for various operators on that route.
Infrastructure Development, Maintenance and Management
Mr Chairperson, in 2016, my ministry will focus on completing the construction of infrastructure in the newly-created provincial headquarters of Chinsali and Choma, and in the newly-created districts. I wish to further inform the House that the ministry has undertaken monitoring and supervision missions to all the project sites and has identified some non-performing contractors, and will soon implement corrective measures. In addition, my ministry will prioritise the development of building standards and specifications for the maintenance and management of public infrastructure. This measure is aimed at providing guidelines to all public institutions on the maintenance and management of their buildings in order to ensure safety and prolong the lifespan of Government infrastructure. Once finalised, the building standards and specifications will compel all public institutions to set aside resources for the maintenance and management of their infrastructure. In the meantime, my ministry has made provisions for the rehabilitation and maintenance of key public infrastructure.
Public Service Transport Management
Sir, as some hon. Members of this august House may be aware, the Cabinet recently approved new modalities of managing Public Service transport, which are aimed at empowering Public Service workers and cutting down Government expenditure on transport management. In 2016, the ministry will implement a directive by the Government to sell off Public Service motor vehicles to eligible civil servants across the country. This measure will, in addition to cutting expenditure on the management of public transport, contribute to revenue generation and, ultimately, benefit the people of Zambia by contributing to the provision of public services.
Support to National Public Events
Mr Chairperson, in accordance with this mandate, the Ministry of Works and Supply will continue to provide logistical support to the successful hosting of national public events, such as Africa Freedom Day, Independence Day, International Women’s Day, Labour Day and Youth Day commemorations.
Mr Nkombo: You forgot Reconciliation Day.
Mr Mukanga: We will always reconcile and pray. It is important to attend prayers.
Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, my ministry will continue supporting the Government Printing Department in order for it to continue printing Government Gazettes, Bills and Acts of Parliament, and revised laws, including statutory instruments (SIs). To this effect, the Government will continue the recapitalisation of the department, which remains a priority in 2016. The ministry’s vision is to strengthen and modernise the department so that all major printing works for Government institutions, including the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), can be done locally. This will not only enhance the capacity of the department, but also curb the transmission of our meagre resources to foreign countries. It is anticipated that the recapitalisation will be completed in the first quarter of 2016.
Sir, the ministry will also continue to provide guidance on the procurement and maintenance of office equipment across Government ministries to ensure that all equipment procured by ministries, provinces and spending agencies meets international standards.
Sir, I hope that this august House will favourably consider the proposed 2016 Budget for the Ministry of Works and Supply and support it.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Works and Supply is very important in a very good government.
Laughter
Mr Muchima: If a government is responsive to its people’s interests, this ministry is key. However, if the government is irresponsive, the ministry is not important.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, time and again, I have stated that for the Government to realise the potential of this economy, it needs to construct infrastructure and prioritise its targets. Road infrastructure should be given first priority because it can add value to the economy, and I have always reminded the hon. Minister to work on one particular road.
Mr Muntanga: Jimbe.
Mr Muchima: Sir, the Patriotic Front (PF) has only one year to be in office.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: In the last four years, I have hoped to see the completion of the T5 Road. When my elder brother, the hon. Minister of Finance, was in the United National Independence Party (UNIP), his Government constructed a tarred road all the way to Swanakuda and Kawiko Village, where Dr Peter Matoka was buried, leaving a stretch of 105 km to the Angolan Border.
Sir, a company from Angola wants to set up an office in Jimbe, but the road to the area is inaccessible because the Government has not prioritised it although it connects Zambia to another country. On several occasions, we have been told that the road would be completed and some companies have expressed a willingness to enter into a public-private partnership (PPP) with the Zambian Government on the project. We were also informed that the Government had partnered the Angolan Government to complete the road but, to date, the road has not been prioritised. I wonder why.
Mr Chairperson, the North-West Railway (NWR) Project, which was spearheaded by my relative, Mr Enoch Kavindele, has not yet commenced because this Government is still dilly-dallying in signing the agreements, yet money is available. It is surprising that the same people who have talked so much about supporting infrastructure development still expect people with the capacity to finance infrastructure projects to plead and pass some parcels under the table. Had that railway line been constructed a long time ago, it would have been generating revenue for this country. Unfortunately, the Government’s priorities are wrongly placed. Instead of putting their priorities in order, the members of this Administration are telling us that we need prayers. What for? They are the ones who need prayers for God to forgive them for the sins they have been committing, especially against the people of the North-Western Province.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Question!
Mr Mbewe: They are sinners.
Mr Muchima: Sir, the PF Government has been in power for almost five years now, but most schools are incomplete. The Movement for Multi-party Development (MMD) left programmes like the construction of the Mongu/Kalabo Road under implementation and we expected it to be completed in the last five years. However, we are now being told that it is 85 per cent complete. When will it be completed?
Mr Mwila: Aah!
Mr Muchima: Whether the people on your right argue or not, what I am telling you is the truth. They found most of the programmes in place, but they will leave them uncompleted.
Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Sir, Ikeleng’i and Mafinga districts were created just before the PF took over the Government. Six years later, this Government has done nothing in the two districts. I have seen some television clips of some construction projects, but I do not know what this Government is doing because the contractors have run away. Some of them are unqualified to be contractors, but were given the contracts because of being PF cadres. Some are qualified contractors, but they have been over-burdened by being awarded five to seven projects when they do not have the capacity to execute them. If you went to Ikeleng’i, you would find that all the construction projects, such as police posts and the boarding school, are still at the foundation stage. Some time back, I was talking about this, but one hon. Colleague on the other side of the House thought that I was joking. I wanted to challenge him to go with me to Ikeleng’i so that he could see what I am talking about but, considering his height, I do not know if at all he would be seen because the grass has overgrown the project site.
Mr Chairperson, we talk about Ikeleng’i and Mwinilunga, in particular, and the North-Western Province, in general, because there is great potential. Currently, it has been raining heavily, and that is the weather for which the Government has been crying here. The Government needs to invest heavily in that province instead of ignoring such a wonderfully-created province with humble people for the five years that it has been in power. We need proper road infrastructure, bridges, schools and the university that has been talked about because the Government’s minds are still there.
Sir, during election campaigns, the PF will try to go to the North-Western Province and scramble some projects like it did in Solwezi West, where it tried to electrify the place which had not had electricity for twenty years. It was for that reasons that the MMD was removed from power. People thought that they were not working, yet the current Government has shamelessly failed to complete some of the projects it inherited. During the by-election in Solwezi West, the Government tried to electrify the area and mobilised personnel to work in the hospital. Are you still working on that project? Are those programmes still running? To be honest, all the people mobilised during the campaigns have run way.
Mr Chairperson, when the President visited Ikeleng’i, equipment was mobilised for some projects but, immediately after he left, the equipment went missing. Who is the PF deceiving?
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Muchima: We will teach it a lesson.
Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Sir, come 2016, I promise you that the PF will not get any vote.
Laughter
Mr Muchima: Sir, let me now talk about the Eurobonds.
Sir, the Government has been repaying the Eurobonds using money from our mines and other resources, yet it does not give us any share of the money borrowed. Where has the money gone?
Interruptions
Mr Muchima: I have heard that, but I know that some the hon. Members, especially those from Luapula Province, will not come back to this House next year. I have all the data. So, do not provoke me.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!
I know that the elections are coming, but there is a Nyanja saying that “Wakufa sadziwika.’
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: So, do not be over-confident because you never know who will win or lose.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Sir, if a person is not confident, he or she must know that he or she has lost it. A person needs to be very confident in life.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!
A ruling has been made. There have been many people in this House who were confident and said that they would come back after elections but, to date, they have not come back.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Sir, especially those in the Executive. They do not know how many will come back, especially …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!
Let me guide you. Campaigns should be left out there. Those who campaigned day in and day out are still out there. So, bear that guidance in mind as you continue.
Mr Muchima: Sir, we need to be prudent in the management and use of Government resources. I have said it before that we do not need to beg for money from anybody because we are entitled to a share. If the PF denies us our share, one day, God will provide and we will have a great blessing. I know that the blessings are coming.
Sir, the PF has talked about township roads everywhere, but I have not seen or heard of any in Ikeleng’i. I ask the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to drive to Ikeleng’i and reach Jimbe so that he sees for himself how bad the road infrastructure we have been talking about is. When he drives on that road, he should go to Kasempa and Chavuma, and reach Zambezi West, where we gave the PF a new hon. Member of Parliament. He will see what is happening there. The Government only works on 1 km of road and, then, takes pictures to show off that it is working. The other day, I sent some people to go and check on the infrastructure development in Luapula Province and it is shocking to read the report I got.
Mr Nkombo: Ulula!
Mr Muchima: There is nothing that is being done in that province, yet we keep being told that there is massive infrastructure development there.
Laughter
Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Muchima: Mwila, you are my younger brother.
Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order because I come from Luapula.
Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor of this House in order to talk about Luapula when he does not come from there?
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Laughter
Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has tarred the Mansa/Luwingu Road.
Interruptions
Mr Mwila: Sir, the Mansa/Luwingu Road is in Luapula.
Sir, the hon. Member is talking about Luapula, where I come from. So, I would like to dispute his statement.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Do not interject. Allow the hon. Minister to raise his point of order. You will also be given the chance to voice your sentiments.
Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I was talking about the Mansa/Luwingu Road, which we have tarred. We have also worked on the Kawambwa/Pambashe, Chembe/Mansa and Mansa/Kashikishi roads.
Sir, as I am speaking, the PF Government has engaged a contractor to work on the Samfya/Kasaba Road. As if that was not enough, the PF Government will build a university next year and has also built secondary schools.
Sir, I need your serious ruling.
The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you have over-debated your point of order.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair!
Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, it is my responsibility, as a national leader and hon. Member of this House, to talk about all the ….
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. I wish to state that it will be the last to be entertained on the hon. Member currently debating.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I will endeavour not to debate my point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs who, a minute ago, tried to prohibit a national leader from discussing the report on what his emissaries to Luapula saw regarding infrastructure projects by saying that the hon. Member cannot talk about Luapula because he does not come from there. Is the hon. Minister in order to sit in his office in Lusaka instead of going to Mansa where he can run a Ministry of Home Affairs for Luapula Province?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson of Committee: The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i may continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: Sir, we are talking about national issues. Therefore, we need to represent our people and speak for them because the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is misleading people by showing them things that do not exist.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Muchima: That is why I sent people there. From Luapula Province, they will go to the Northern Province and, then, Muchinga Province.
Laughter
Mr Muchima: I will keep telling the people the truth.
Mr Chairperson, let me remind this Government that it poached one of our hon. Members, whose name I will not mention, and told him that it would take development to Mufumbwe by building hospitals, bridges and other infrastructure.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: To date, however, nothing has been done in Mufumbwe. The PF also poached one of our most beautiful ladies recently, but when you go to the North-Western Province, you will not find the development that was promised by the Government. So, I want this Government to wake up and start distributing our meagre resources equally. The resources are for all Zambians regardless of tribe, colour or height. The Government should not discriminate against anyone. We need the Jimbe, Kasempa/Mumbwa and Kaoma/Zambezi roads to be constructed. We also need an airstrip in Ikeleng’i to boost tourism. Money has been allocated to the construction of the airstrip by the Government in the previous Budget, but I do not know where it has gone. We need the airstrip so that we can promote the source of the Zambezi River as a tourist attraction.
Sir, if the Government does not do anything to encourage tourism in areas like Ikeleng’i, this country will not have any extra income, and the mining houses will keep holding the nation to ransom because we will have no option, but to play by their rules. So, let us look at other sources or areas of income generation. The North-Western Province has many resources from which we could generate income but, because of the PF’s hatred, God has blinded our eyes. Things are not working in our favour because the Government is not favouring the people who are supposed to be favoured. Instead, it is favouring those it is not supposed to. The Government should favour every Zambian and, when it does that, the nation will see the greatness of God. We recently observed the National Day of Prayer, Fasting and Reconciliation. The PF prayed. So, we want to see the economy of this country improve. If it does not, then, the hon. Members on your right should know that God has not answered their prayers.
Laughter
Hon. MMD Member: They are sinners.
Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, the PF Government should just wait for us to change the Government and see how things will flourish in this country. We need great hon. Ministers like the ones I know, but will not mention because we are not allowed to debate ourselves. However, I can tell you that we need hon. Ministers like Dr John Phiri, who can serve this country without looking at the party to which they belong. An hon. Minister is there to serve everybody. Like Jesus, who came into this world for sinners, the PF got into the Government to serve Opposition hon. Members. The late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC, built the people of Luapula Province a bridge even when he did not get any votes from there. That is the kind of leadership we want. I do not know how many months are still remaining before the PF Government’s term of office comes to an end, but I want to urge it to use that time to review the 2016 Budget. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, who has married from the North-Western Province, and the Chairperson of the PF, who is also the hon. Minister of Justice, to look at their cousins with favour.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the allocation to the Ministry of Works and Supply, I have about three or four issues to that I wish to discuss.
Sir, I am happy that the hon. Minister of Justice is back in the House because I want to make an appeal to him regarding office accommodation, which is supposed to be for the Ministry of Works and Supply. Just opposite the Zambia Information Communication Telecommunications Authority (ZICTA), there is a new building that is being built. Its construction was started by the Ministry of Works and Supply but, when it was almost completed, the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) moved into it. I think that is very unfair. If the Office of the DPP wants offices, let it build its own. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Justice and the Republican President, if he can hear me now, to ensure that the building is returned to the Ministry of Works and Supply. Having worked in the Ministry of Works and Supply for thirty-one years, I have a personal interest in that building, and what is happening there is hurtful. After all, the Ministry of Works and Supply can share the building with the Ministry of Transport and Communications because, currently, I do not see where their offices.
Sir, my second point is on the Road Development Agency (RDA).
Sir, after the recent restructuring of ministries by the Republican President, I had expected the RDA to be taken back to the Ministry of Works and Supply, but it is still under State House. Once more, I appeal to the Republican President to revert that agency to the appropriate ministry. The Act that established the agency actually states that it agency should be under the Ministry of Works and Supply, not at State House.
Mr Chairperson, while I am still on the subject of the RDA, let me also talk about the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. The Government should move in and do something about that road because it is in a very bad shape, especially the black spots at Dallas and Munali Hills. Hon. Minister, could you, please, have that road worked on.
Sir, the third point that I want to discuss is infrastructure development.
Sir, I remember that when we discussed the construction industry at the beginning of this year, we called a Permanent Secretary (PS) from the Ministry of Works and Supply, and asked him whether he was happy with the situation in which every ministry was involved in construction. As far as I remember, that PS said that the Government was working on reversing the trend. My appeal is that we revert to the old centralised system so that we can control the quality of work. Of course, it will take us time to do that because a lot of water has passed under the bridge, and we will need to build the capacity of the department. It might take us five years to get to where we had reached in the past. However, I think that is the only way we can have sanity in the construction sector. The old system was very good because everything relating to construction was handled by the Buildings Department of the Ministry of Works and Supply. There were many architectural sections. If my memory serves me right, there were up to eight architectural sections, each handling a different sector. For instance, there was a Senior Architect for the health sector, another one for the education sector and yet another for civil aviation. So, everything was done properly, and I want that system to be reintroduced.
Sir, I see that on Grants to Institutions, the National Council for Construction (NCC) has been allocated K3,500,000, which is a drop in the ocean. There should have been an increase to enable the institution to undertake research work. When we called officials from the NCC to appear before your Committee at the beginning of this year to discuss the construction industry, it admitted that it did not have enough funds to go into research. So, we should consider increasing the allocations to the NCC in our subsequent Budgets.
Sir, my fifth comment is on what other hon. Members have discussed already, that is, the numerous construction projects in Lusaka. I think it is very unfair to the rural areas. I have in mind the ring roads that are a preserve of towns when even rural areas need them. The Monze/Chivuna/Magoye Road should be a ring road because it passes through areas of high agricultural production in both crop production and ranching. In contrast, the only reason I have heard for the construction of ring roads in towns is that of decongesting traffic. That cannot be a priority. Rural areas require better roads because of their thriving agricultural production, and that should be a priority. So I appeal to the hon. Minister to ensure that the Monze/Chivuna/Magoye Road is tarred.
Mr Mulomba: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya: Sir, finally, let me talk about the construction of houses for former Presidents.
Sir, I see that there is an allocation in the Budget for construction of houses for the Second, Third and Fourth Presidents, but the K500,000 for each house is not enough, especially considering that this programme has been on-going for too long. One house can be built in twelve months if we are serious, yet we have been talking about building the house for the Second President for five or six years. That shows lack of seriousness. I hear that a Bill aimed at abolishing the practice of building houses for former Presidents will be presented to this House. However, before that happens, I think that it is only fair that we finish the houses for the Second, Third and Fourth Presidents. Thereafter, we should stop the practice.
Mr Chairperson, as usual, those are the very few words from me.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote for the Ministry of Works and Supply. In doing so, I would like to urge the hon. Minister that there is a lot of work to be done in road and bridge construction. I remember taking him to see a bridge that had been constructed before Independence in Kalomo. It is a very small bridge that joins Kalomo Town Centre to the Boma. After seeing it, the hon. Minister agreed to enlarge it but, to date, nothing has been done.
Sir, I have keenly followed the implementation of the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project, and I ask that the Kafue/Mazabuka/Monze Road be worked on before the other places are linked.
Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear! Tomorrow!
Mr Muntanga: I do not know why our colleagues on your right hate that road. I ask this because at Independence, the road was a single lane. Currently, all that has been done on the stretch between Mazabuka and Munali Hills is just patching of the sides. To date, there has not been any serious works done on the road. We were hoping that something would be done by the current Government. The First Republican President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, promised to send a contractor to work on it, but nothing happened. It is like every Government has just been making promises about it. So, when we heard about the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project, we thought that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government would work on the road. The hon. Minister has an opportunity to make a name for himself by rehabilitating the road, which is dangerous to drive on.
Mr Nkombo: Including the bypass.
Mr Muntanga: The Government even promised to make a bypass in Mazabuka …
Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!
Mr Mazabuka: … to avoid vehicles crushing into the Mazabuka Shoprite. When will that bypass be constructed? On the Monze/Niko Road, I have seen what is being done, but the works need to be speeded up.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Sir, the Kalomo/Mapatizya Road has economic value because there is a mine in Mapatizya and the road from there joins the Bottom Road. So, the Bottom Road we talk about also has economic value. We also ask the Government to link the Kalomo/Chikanta Road to the Namwala Road because it also has economic worth.
Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: There are farmers in Namwala who need to transport their inputs and produce.
Mr Miyanda: There is also tourism.
Mr Muntanga: Yes, there is also tourism.
Sir, the Kalomo/Itezhi-tezhi Road joins the Mongu Road. There are many animal species in the Kafue National Park that can be exploited for tourism. So, we do not want a dusty road leading to that area. We know that a beautiful road similar to the Chipata/Mfuwe Road can be built there. The works on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road were excellent. Although we are prohibited from talking about other provinces by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, I am tempted to do so because I have been to all the provinces.
Mr Nkombo: We are nationalists.
Mr Muntanga: Sir, I would like to see a road constructed to join Mwenda and Kashiba. The works on the Mansa/Luwingu Road have not even reached Lupososhi.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: I have driven on it and seen that it is still a gravel road up to a point in Luwingu.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Sir, the ministry should also work on the Luwingu/Nsombo Road going to Chilubi Island. My colleagues on the right should just accept that the road is in a very bad state. When I was working in Luwingu, I could drive at 80 km/hour on that road, but that is currently not possible. The hon. Members on your right should understand that some of us know Zambia.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: So, when we tell them to work on certain parts of the country, we mean well.
Sir, you will recall that there was so much talk about the construction of Mbesuma Bridge on the Kasama/Isoka Road in the past. To date, that bridge has not been completed. So, when our colleagues claim to be working, what are they talking about? They should take note of the roads I am mentioning.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: I can name all the roads across the country.
Sir, the Mongu/Sesheke Road has been tarred, but I want the Government to also tar the road that goes to Kalabo on the western side of the Zambezi River in order to truly link Zambia.
Sir, in the Southern Province, I want the short road from Pemba to the Bottom Road to be tarred. From Pemba, one can go up to Mapanza and join the Namwala Road. From Chisekese, there is a road that passes through Chipepo to join the Bottom Road. All those roads are waiting to be worked on.
Mr Nkombo: Get organised.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, from Chikankanta Turn-off one can go up to the hospital and join the Bottom Road. That is linking Zambia. From Kalomo, there is a road that passes through to Mulobezi on which there is a beautiful bridge over the Ngwezi River. The bridge was lobbied for by the late Mr Kebby Musokotwane. Across the bridge, there is no road, yet the rationale for constructing the road was to link Mulobezi and Kalomo via that route, which is shorter and by-passes Livingstone. One can even go straight to Sesheke from there. I know that this Government likes creating districts. So, if it creates a district in Moomba, that road would open up the area.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if I tell the Government to create a district, it will.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: Even at Manda Hill Shopping Mall.
Mr Muntanga: It can create one even at Manda Hill Shopping Mall.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: It is very fast in creating districts.
Mr Milambo: Even at Manda Hill Shopping Mall?
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: As long as you convince the President to create a district, he will do it.
Mr Chairperson, I want the Ministry of Works and Supply to look at the roads it has not included in the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project. Let us also have Link Livingstone 800 Kilometres. Why should these projects be only in towns in Lusaka and the Copperbelt? Is Zambia made up of only these two provinces? Let us link the road from Monze to Chivuna that he (pointing at Hon. Mooya) has talked about.
Mr Mwiimbu: Yes!
Mr Muntanga: However, it should not only be the road from Monze through Chivuna to Magoye, but also the one that joins Kafue Road from Chivuna. Do you know that road (asking Hon. Mooya)?
Mr Mooya indicated assent.
Mr Muntanga: That road is a short-cut. Instead of going to Mazabuka, one can come straight after Chikankata Turn-off, then, branch off onto that road through Chivuna to Monze, and you will be home.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Then, Sir, the Government will have to work on the Kawambwa/Mporokoso Road …
Mr Mwiimbu: Yes!
Mr Muntanga: … because people must move.
Mr Nkombo: Even from Mbala iya iinda …
Mr Muntanga: The Kawambwa/Luwingu Road, which the PF has been talking about tarring, still has some hills that must be finished.
Mr Mwila: How do you know?
Mr Muntanga: I have been there.
Mr Nkombo: To Chimbamilonga.
Mr Muntanga: If you go through the hills, you will join the road to Chibote and come back to Luwingu Road. Ask the area hon. Member of Parliament who knows what I am talking about. That road passes through Musungu Village. Those roads need to be worked on.
Laughter
Mr Mwiimbu: Even through Senama.
Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I think that the hon. Members on your right do not want the roads repaired. So, I withdraw that submission. The Government should leave the roads …
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: … unattended to because the hon. Member of Parliament for the area does not want them worked on.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: The hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe does not want the road from Chibote to Luwingu constructed.
Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.
Mr Muntanga: What does he want?
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Sir, I will leave those roads and talk about the Katunda/Lukulu Road …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: … and the one that passes through the black forest.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: The road through the black forest, …
Mr Mumba: Watopa.
Mr Muntanga: Yes, the Watopa Road.
Sir, trees fall on that road. So, we need it to be cleared. It is a shortcut.
Mr Nkombo: It is just 60 km.
Mr Muntanga: Yes, it is just 60 km. If it was worked on, one would not need to go round to Lukulu. The hon. Minister knows it, and we want him to include it in the road sector work plan.
Mr Mutelo: Mitete to Ndungu Road.
Mr Muntanga: Sir, if the Government wants to improve the Eastern Province, the road it needs to work on is the one that passes through Petauke to Mkushi. That valley, …
Mr Nkombo: Luano.
Mr Muntanga: … the Luano Valley, will be opened up.
Mr Chairperson, I can even tell you that there is a road from Chalata at the Mkushi River, which goes down through Chief Mboroma …
Mr Mwimba H Malama: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: … and joins the road that goes into the old Petauke Boma. Repairing that road is what we call opening up Zambia.
Mr Mwiimbu: Talk about Chasefu.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Sir, for Chasefu, it is obvious what road needs to be worked on because there is no tarred road from Lundazi to Chama. Why do we do that? From his constituency (pointing at The Deputy Chairperson of Committees), it is very near to Malawi.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: He is actually right.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: We cannot mention people who represent some areas because they will stop us.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: He is actually right, to the extent that he is talking about the road between Chama and Lundazi.
You may continue, Hon. Muntanga.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Sir, that road must be tarred.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Sir, at the junction on the Lundazi/Chama Road, there is a short road to Malawi. We can open another border post there. Currently, the Government says it is an illegal road yet, on the Malawian side, there is a road along the boundary. So, all we need to do is build a good tarred road to join the Lundazi/Chama Road. We have been to all those areas and we are not telling the hon. Minister about where we live.
Mr Mutelo: Link Zambia.
Mr Muntanga: I am talking about all the provinces because I am a national leader.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: So, I want to remind my friends who restrict others’ debates …
Mr Milambo: Yes!
Mr Muntanga: … that they need a good road from Samfya, through Kasaba, to Lupososhi.
Mr Bwalya: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: The hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi will agree with me that there is a need for a bridge after Chief Chungu’s area. That is opening up the country. However, wait for us to be in charge because we know these roads.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: We are not guessing.
Sir, my last point for the hon. Minister …
Mr Nkombo: You are just talking about Mwense.
Mr Muntanga: ... is that the Government offices in rural areas are very dirty, and I have used a very polite word.
Mr Nkombo: Filthy.
Mr Muntanga: I invite the hon. Minister to Kalomo to see what we are doing there. The building that is supposed to be the office of the Department of Labour and Social Security, on the roadside, should be demolished because we are re-building the town. We want to make the place beautiful, but there is a Government building next to the Post Office. The hon. Minister will not be pleased to see the state of that building.
Mr Nkombo: He will be blinded if he sees it.
Mr Muntanga: That is why, once, when I debated on the Ministry of Justice, the then hon. Minister, the late Mr Kunda, SC., may his soul rest in peace, agreed that we build a magistrate’s court complex and we have built a beautiful one. The old structure has since been turned into a warehouse. So, we have stopped going there. However, we want to change the whole place, and I believe that you can understand us. The Government buildings are too dilapidated and we need to do something about them.
Mr Chairperson, as a last reminder on the road on which I am driving tomorrow, the Kafue/Mazabuka Road, if the Government does not want to repair it, it should, at least, send some people to patch up the potholes on it because they are dangerous. The hon. Minister promised that some people would repair the road. He should urgently send them to do so. We need the road to be widened into four lanes after Munali Hills like it is in the civilised world.
Mr Nkombo: Tourist capital.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I hope that the hon. Minister is listening because his is a key ministry. That is why we were unhappy when it was merged with the Ministry of Transport and Communications.
Mr Mutelo: Free advice.
Mr Muntanga: This is free advice that I am giving.
Mr Chairperson, if the Road Development Agency (RDA) is still under State House, it should be moved from there because it is making the people at State House rich from contract kickbacks.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: The RDA should be moved to the Ministry of Works and Supply, whose hon. Minister is an honest person. He has not yet started enriching himself.
Mr Nkombo: How do you know?
Mr Muntanga: I do not know yet.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, with those very few words, I thank you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this very important ministry. I will debate three issues, the first of which relates to Government properties, which my colleague touched on.
Mr Chairperson, a number of Government properties throughout the country are in a very bad state. I was looking at the money allocated to this sector and noticed that the budget for the ministry is K217,325,542 million, of which K113,406,754 will go to the Road Development Agency (RDA) as a grant. That means that the ministry only remains with K103 million for other programmes, which is not enough if you look at the various functions that the ministry is supposed to discharge.
Sir, one of the points that the hon. Minister talked about was the need not to just construct, but also maintain infrastructures. Africans, and Zambians in particular, seem to have a very bad maintenance culture. We are good at building, but we do not know how to maintain the buildings we build. If you look at most of the buildings across the country, both public and privately-owned, you will see that most are in very bad shape. We do not know how to paint, clean, sweep or keep our surroundings clean. We just seem to have a problem. All we are good at is drinking alcohol and talking too much.
Mr Chairperson, the Government must lead by example. If the Government, which is responsible for the construction of buildings and general infrastructure, could maintain its infrastructure, the citizens would follow suit. However, if the Government is the worst culprit, the citizens will equally follow its lead. The Government does not paint or renovate its buildings. As a result, most Government buildings have leaking roofs and, now that we are in the rainy season, you will find most people in Government offices working in poor environments. They do not even enjoy their work. Equally, when you look at the furniture in most Government institutions, you feel sad and wonder whether we are in the 21st Century. What is happening? The men and women who lead this country look very smart, but they do not maintain their surroundings and infrastructure. One begins to wonder what our priorities are.
Mr Chairperson, we must put the money where it is needed the most. Maintenance is very important. Look at how any of the brand-new and expensive Government vehicles will look one month later. You will feel sad to see how some officers and leaders maintain their official vehicles. So, it is good that the Government is now considering moving towards the policy of Government officers buying their own vehicles. Maybe, they will take better care of them. We, Zambians, have the bad practice of not caring for Government property and just saying, “Niva Boma.” You just get shocked to see how the homes of some hon. Ministers, Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and Directors look. Yes, of course, the Government is supposed to maintain them, but even the occupants can help the Government. Why can they not buy even just a small tin of lime paint and ask their children to paint their houses, even pa Saturday or Sunday? Why do they wait for the …
The Deputy Chairperson: Avoid the use of the mother-tongue expressions like ‘pa’ and ‘ka’.
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry I got carried away. Your guidance is well noted.
Sir, I was saying that it is important for us, as a people, to have a maintenance culture. That was the rationale behind the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign, which was meant to institutionalise cleanliness so that we start caring about the infrastructure around us instead of always waiting for the Ministry of Works and Supply to paint our houses, new hon. Minister, … What is this boy’s name?
Hon. Member: Hon. Monde.
Mrs Masebo: Yes, Hon. Monde.
Mr Monde: Am I a boy?
Mrs Masebo: I am sorry. The hon. Minister, Mr Monde. I think that it is important.
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the Presidential Guest House on the Copperbelt.
Sir, in the past, you could be proud to call those houses Presidential. Now, I just wonder what is wrong with us. Surely, we are failing to maintain a house that is normally only occupied by a Head of State. Where is our pride, as a people? So, I really hope that the hon. Minister, even with these meagre resources, can do something about Government properties, including Presidential Guest Houses, throughout the country. This takes me to the policy of constructing houses for former Presidents.
Sir, I am happy that a Bill on the policy will be presented and we will debate it. We have many other policies that are just crazy, especially regarding remunerations not only for politicians, but also officers in various wings of the Government, such as the Judiciary, the Legislature and, of course, the Executive. We cannot continue with these policies. As a country, we just do not have the capacity. Past Governments have come up with emoluments and conditions of service that are not just untenable, but also unfair. In a country where, in some cases, we fail to pay workers and retirees, how can we want to continue spending half of the Budget on individuals in influential positions?
Mr Chairperson, the President, in his Speech to the House, called for a review of some of the conditions of service. For example, retired army and judicial officers are provided with house servants and other incentives, yet those who are still serving the country are not being paid. It is not right. These are some of the mistakes we make, as leaders. We try to appease people for political reasons. I have a history with some of these issues because I have been part of the Government for a long time. We used to give people extravagant packages that were not tenable in the country when going through an election. For example, we wanted to please some heads of security wings, and the successive governments have found themselves in a very bad situation because they cannot reverse some of those steps we took.
Mr Chairperson, we should be brave, as a people. If something is wrong, we should change it. Simply because one former President made a decision, maybe, for political reasons, does not mean that it cannot be changed. When others take over, it is incumbent upon them, if they are good leaders, to discontinue all the bad practices. Otherwise, they will be just as bad as the ones who initiated the practice. So, we need to start changing the wrong things.
Mr Chairperson, the policy of constructing houses for former Presidents and heads of the other two wings of the Government falls squarely on the Ministry of Works and Supply, which has now been separated from the Ministry of Transport and Communications. One of the difficulties that this country has is that every ministry executes the functions of the Ministry of Works and Supply, and the reason is simply that people want kickbacks from the contracts because there is a lot of money in this sector.
Mr Muntanga: We know.
Mrs Masebo: So, over the years, the functions of the ministry have been usurped and the meagre resources are being duplicated. Now, construction firms are contracted to build structures like clinics by the Ministry of Health while educational infrastructure contracts are awarded by the two ministries responsible for education. However, there is still a lack of key qualified staff to properly supervise the works. So, there is poor workmanship. The workmanship on a number of the schools that have been built in this country of late, for example, is very shoddy. One year after construction, you will find the classroom floors cracking and roofs falling or leaking. So, we cannot have, for example, the ministries of Tourism, General Education, Higher Education, Health, and Transport and Communications all doing construction. It just does not work. On that, I agree with my colleague, Hon. Mooya, who is an expert on this subject. Maybe, he must resign his Parliamentary seat and become a PS at the Ministry of Works and Supply.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Masebo: I think that he is the kind of man we want in these ministries. Maybe, we can start seeing things work. So, I think that we should consider getting back to how things were in the past, whereby the Ministry of Works and Supply executed the works, so that we save some money.
Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about roads, on which I have one point to make that I ask the ministries of Works and Supply, and Local Government and Housing to seriously look at.
Sir, we have mandated the Zambia National Service (ZNS) with the responsibility of maintaining some of the road infrastructure in the country. Why can we not just do things the way they are supposed to be done? The way things are supposed to be is that the Ministry of Works and Supply takes care of the major roads and bridges while the local authorities take care of the small roads. Period.
Now, you can contract …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about road construction and maintenance and the need to rationalise that function in Zambia so that it can become as easy as it used to be in the past.
Sir, in the good days when I was a councillor, a local authority like Lusaka and Kitwe city councils could build or tar a road. However, nowadays, it looks like that task has become a big story in Zambia. All I am asking is: Now that the Ministry of Works and Supply has been rationalised, is it not possible that the construction of roads can also be rationalised? I am aware that there is an Act that has provided for this to happen, but the problem is its implementation. We have a bamba zonke culture in Zambia, whereby every hon. Minister ...
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: What does that expression mean?
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, it means wanting to do everything alone even when it is not good. For example, under the ministry of Tourism and Arts, and Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, we delayed the implementation of a good policy, which has been repeated under different Presidents because people want bamba zonke. They want to have everything to themselves. So, all I am saying is that the ministry should concern itself with the construction of big roads and managing toll gates, and let the councils in the country play their role of maintaining and constructing small roads so that, over the years, we can build capacity in the councils. The ZNS can help, but let us not confuse the policy on road construction so that people do not know who is responsible for what. It is not possible for the Ministry of Works and Supply to understand my need for a bridge in Kabeleka Village. If we were a properly organised country, that bridge would have been repaired by the council in Chongwe. However, we are still waiting for the people in Lusaka to do it.
Mr Chairperson, the last point I want to make is that since the Ministry of Works and Supply has been streamlined and the largest chunk of its resources are meant for the RDA, I think that it makes sense to take back the agency from State House to the ministry. There is nothing about the RDA that should keep it at State House. So, it does not make sense to keep the agency at State House. Let us not continue with things that we know to be bad and pretend that they are good. Those who have the privilege of being close to President Lungu should advise him to take the RDA back to the Ministry of Works and Supply so that the ministry can have some work to do. Otherwise, we may just as well abolish the ministry because having the agency away from the ministry means that half of the ministry’s budget is at State House. So, if we take the agency back to the ministry, we will see an improvement.
Mr Chairperson, finally, I heard the hon. Minister talk about printing ballot papers in the country. My advice to him is that he should just leave that issue alone. I support the recapitalisation of the Government Printing Department, but I am not sure whether we should talk about printing ballot papers when we still have inadequate resources and other problems there. Printing ballot papers at that department will just create unnecessary problems.
Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate.
Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members who have debated the Vote, namely, Hon. Muchima, Hon. Muntanga, Hon. Mooya, the engineer, and Hon. Masebo. Let me start by responding to my brother, Hon. Muchima, who is not in the House.
Sir, Hon. Muchima stated that there is a lot of sin in the country and attributed the fact that things are not working out well in this country to that. We should realise that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, made it clear that this country needed prayer, repentance and reconciliation. That is why he declared 18th October, as a day of prayer. However, very few hon. Members from the Opposition observed that day. Strangely, today, Hon. Muchima is talking about sin. God has answered the prayers of those who prayed on that day. Those who did not are still in sin and need to repent.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: I think that it is important for us to take these issues seriously. Prayer is very cardinal if we are to move forward. We have started on a clean slate after those prayers, and we will move forward. I will pray for those who boycotted the prayers so that they live to see the success of the PF in 2016. The PF is God’s gift to Zambians, ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: ... which will change things in the country.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the first term of the PF will end in 2016, then, we will go for the second term. We started the projects that have been talked about and we will finish them. We are doing all we can to change the lives of the people of Zambia. So, I think that the PF is a blessed party, and all have seen what it has done.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the Mongu/Kalabo Road and the North-West Railway (NWR) fall under the Ministry of Transport and Communications, not the Ministry of Works and Supply. Even if the two ministries were once one, we cannot discuss history, which was what most hon. Members debated. However, I can assure them that there is a lot that has already been done about the Solwezi/Jimbe Road. The procurement of works is already underway and the actual works are expected to commence by the end of the year. So, Hon. Muchima is behind schedule. A lot is being done to fix that road. As for township roads, I can say that they are being constructed everywhere. In Lusaka, people are seeing them being constructed and are even surprised to see how the city has changed in a very short time. The livelihoods of the people are changing and that is what we want to continue doing. Zambia is changing. Go to the Copperbelt and see the change that has taken place there.
Interruptions
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, Monze has changed.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the Monze/Niko Road has been worked on and so have many urban roads in Mongu. So, people should learn to appreciate. Why do we always want to condemn even the good that we are able to see for ourselves? This Government is doing its best. The Monze/Niko Road had never been repaired before the PF came into power and the people of Monze have appreciated its repair. It is only the representatives of the people who have not appreciated and that makes me wonder why they do not appreciate. Whom do they represent?
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: The Opposition hon. Members of Parliament should not think that the people do not see what we are doing.
Mr Chairperson, I appreciate the contribution from my fellow engineer, Hon. Mooya, because most of the issues he brought out were very constructive. I believe that we will take most of those issues on board and address them.
Interruptions
Mr Mukanga: He is my fellow engineer. So, I understand his thinking.
Sir, Hon. Muntanga mentioned a number of roads that he said should be worked on. Let me give him feedback.
Sir, the PF Government is currently implementing the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project and is likely to come up with more ‘links’ in the second term.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: We can even come up with a Link Zambia 10,000 Kilometre Road Project or something like that to further improve the life that the people of Zambia are enjoying, thanks to the PF.
Mr Chairperson, it is true I will talk about the Mbesuma Bridge later.
Sir, it is true that Government offices in rural which need to look clean. When one sees a building in a very bad state, the chances are that it is a Government building.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: In this regard, I urge Zambians to change their mindset and start appreciating where their money is going. Government buildings are constructed using taxpayers’ money. Therefore, everyone should be responsible enough to look after Government property and ensure that public resources are not wasted. So, the idea that we need to look after Government property is welcome. However, my hope and prayer is that it will be everybody’s responsibility. As the Government plays its part by constructing buildings, everybody else must do their part by looking after them.
Mr Chairperson, Hon. Masebo raised the issue of Presidential Guesthouses, which cannot all be maintained and raised to a certain standard in one year.
Ms Lubezhi: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: Yes, Hon. Lubezhi. I am an engineer. So, I know what maintenance is all about. What do you know about maintenance?
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Maintenance works need to be scheduled to guarantee good results. So, we will work on the guesthouses in a phased approach. In fact, we have already done so.
Mr Chairperson, the designs for the Kafue/Mazabuka Road are almost complete and emergency repairs will be undertaken on it soon while the Kafue/Livingstone Road has been earmarked for rehabilitation under a public-private partnership (PPP). The process is expected to be completed by the first quarter of 2016. This is our plan and we are on course.
Mr Mwila: What can you tell us?
Mr Mukanga: The Opposition hon. Members do not need to tell us anything because we know what we are doing.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: This is the feedback that Hon. Muntanga wanted and I am giving it to him.
Mr Chairperson, a Cabinet Memorandum (Cab Memo) to centralise the procurement of building works under my ministry has already been drafted. We are already moving in that direction.
Ms Lubezhi: Yaba!
Mr Mukanga: Continue like that.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: You will continue being in the Opposition if you do not know.
Laughter
Mr Mwila: Bwekeshapo!
Mr Mukanga: Do you not know that it is important for Opposition hon. Members to collaborate with the Government of the day so that we can move forward? That is how one can make an impact despite being in the Opposition. When I was in the Opposition, we had an impact and that is why things were changing. You, on the other hand, do not have any impact because you just know how to talk.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the works on the Mansa/Luwingu Road have reached an advanced stage.
Mr Mwila: Yes!
Mr Mukanga: They are now at Lupososhi and approaching Lwenje, which is close to Luwingu Boma. The contractor is now camped in Lupososhi, yet people are saying that there is nothing happening. What Hon. Muntanga is talking about is history because works are on-going and the people of Luwingu and Mansa can see for themselves.
Mr Mwila: And the people of Chipili!
Mr Mukanga: The people of Chipili appreciate what we are doing.
Ms Lubezhi: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: So, do not just talk about things you do not understand.
Mr Sichone: Even the people of Chasefu!
Mr Mukanga: I will talk about Chasefu soon. Just wait.
Mr Chairperson, the works on the Solwezi/Jimbe Road are under procurement …
Mr Nkombo: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: … and are expected to commence by the end of 2015. The Solwezi/Jimbe Road is not the Mazabuka/Kafue Road.
Mr Nkombo interjected.
Mr Mukanga: What is the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central talking about?
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the contract for the Lundazi/Chama Road …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Mukanga: ... has been signed and works will start by the end of 2015.
Mr Mpundu: Not 2020?
Mr Mukanga: No, because already a 32 km stretch from Chama to Lundazi, up to the Junction with Muyombe, has been worked on. Everything is on course. I will give Hon. Nkombo feedback on the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. He should not just go out there to start campaigning because his people are seeing what is happening on the ground. We have already campaigned by working hard.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the works on the Kasempa/Mumbwa, Kasempa/Kaoma and Chingola/Solwezi roads, and Solwezi township roads are already under procurement.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: For the Chingola/Solwezi Road, the contractor is already on site. So, what was the hon. Member talking about? He should not be closed-minded. Rather, he should look out and see what this Government, led by Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is doing.
Interruptions
Mr Mukanga: We are doing a lot. Every promise we ever made is being fulfilled.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: That is why we are very calm when other people are jittery and thinking they will come back to power. We have heard all sorts of stories about people wanting to come back, but they have not done so. We, on the other hand, are calm because we have done our homework. They should work extremely hard if they are to challenge us.
Mr Chairperson, we are also constructing a police headquarters in Solwezi. So, why should people complain that there is nothing happening in the North-Western Province when there are many works being executed? Infrastructure development in the newly-created thirty-three districts and the old ones is progressing well.
Mr Mufalali: Aah!
Mr Mukanga: Out of the 250 Zambian contractors I talked about, 90 per cent are doing well. We have been closely monitoring who is doing what because taxpayers’ money is involved.
Ms Lubezhi: Yaba!
Mr Mukanga: Continue doing that. You will see the result of our hard work.
Mr Nkombo: You will not come back.
Mr Mukanga: The best thing for you to do is work with the Government and supports its programmes so that you have a 1 per cent chance of coming back.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Sir, for now, we are doing all we can to please not the Opposition hon. Members, but the people of Zambia.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 64/01 – (Ministry of Works and Supply – Human Resources and Administration Department – K158,560,724).
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 853, Programme 1007, Activity 007 – Personnel Related Arrears – K775,941; Page 854, Programme 1007, Activity 007 – Personnel Related Arrears – K51,000 and Page 855, Programme 1007, Activity 005 – Outstanding Bills – K600,000. This programme is repeated three times, but is allocated different amounts. Why is that the case?
The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Chairperson, the programme is meant for payment of outstanding arrears for various personnel.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, my question is: Why does this programme appear on Pages 853, 854 and 855, but with different figures?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the programmes are under different units and have different activities.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1137, Activity 017 – Procurement of Goods and Equipment – K52,243. What goods will be procured with this little amount?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the allocation to Programme 1137, Activity 017 – Procurement of Goods and Equipment – K52,243, is for the procurement of a shredder.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 64/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 64/07 – (Ministry of Works and Supply – Buildings Department – K25,051,083).
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1002, Activity 063 – Disability Day – K7,400. Why is it that every other activity has a reasonable amount except for this one? Why are we doing this to the disabled? For example, ...
The Deputy Chairperson: You have asked your question.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1002, Activity 063 – Disability Day – K7,400, is meant for cross-cutting issues. So, we will be able to fund some of them from General Administration.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, why is the allocation to the Disability Day lower than the allocations to other activities?
Hon. Opposition Member: The hon. Minister is not answering the questions. We will stop asking questions now.
Mr Mwila: He has answered.
The Deputy Chairperson: In case the answer was not clear, hon. Minister.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, disability issues are cross-cutting and can even be run through General Administration. Everybody uses that from time to time.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 64/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 64/08 – (Ministry of Works and Supply – Government Printing Department – K18,874,031).
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 089 – Repatriation – K50,000. Why is this allocation so small when the allocations to other Activities are larger?
Hon. Government Member: What is the question?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1001, Activity 089 – Repatriation – K50,000, is for paying officers who are being repatriated.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 64/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 64/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 64/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 05 – (Electoral Commission – Headquarters – K776,806,907).
The Minister of Works and Supply, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the 2016 budget for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).
Sir, the ECZ was established as an autonomous body under Article 76 of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia to conduct elections to the Office of the President and the National Assembly of Zambia. The commission is also mandated to review the constituency boundaries into which Zambia is divided for the purpose of elections to the National Assembly, and to supervise the registration of voters and review the voter’s register. In addition to the Constitutional functions outlined above, the commission also has statutory functions, which include the supervision of local government elections, voter education, conflict management and any other statutory function that the National Assembly may call upon it to perform.
Mr Chairperson, the Electoral Commission Act No. 24 of 1996 provides for the composition and operation of the Commission while the Electoral Act No. 12 of 2006 empowers the commission to enforce the Electoral Act, make regulations providing for the registration of voters, conduct Presidential and Parliamentary elections and prosecute election offences, and stipulates penalties for some offences. The commission is also mandated by the Referendum Act to conduct a referendum under the terms stipulated under the same Act.
Sir, the mission statement for the ECZ is:
“To be an autonomous Electoral Management Body promoting democratic governance through the delivery of a credible electoral process.”
Sir, the commission’s mission statement gives the purpose of its existence and informs its vision. It also provides the framework within which the commission’s policies will be made, and programmes and activities carried out to enrich and further strengthen the electoral process, thereby contributing to the democratic governance of the country. It further gives the staff of the commission a clear sense of what their organisation is all about, thereby increasing their commitment to achieving the commission’s objectives.
Overview of 2015 Operations
Mr Chairperson, 2015 saw the commission conduct a number of by-elections and a Presidential By-election on 20th January, 2015, which had been occasioned by the death of our then President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace. Almost all the election petitions that were before the courts of law have now been concluded, except for Livingstone Constituency, which is yet to be determined. So, the commission has conducted one Presidential By-election, nine Parliamentary by-elections and fifty-one local Government by-elections in the course of this year, which resulted in new members being ushered into this House and various councils across the country.
Mr Chairperson, the commission also paralysed the delimitation of polling districts that had been commenced in 2014. The exercise is meant to take into account any new developments affecting voters, such as infrastructure development, people’s migration and general changes in population patterns, and has resulted in the creation of new polling districts, changing of the old polling stations that are no longer suitable and the redrawing of ward boundaries. Consequently, the number of wards has increased from 1,422 to 1624 and the number of polling stations from 6,456 to 7,700.
Sir, in the second half of the year, the commission embarked on the voter registration exercise. The exercise is a mix of mobile registration in various polling stations across all the ten provinces of Zambia and routine registration at the various civic centres and all the established council premises in the country. In addition to the registration of new voters, the exercise has also been open to registered voters who want to change polling stations and those who have deceased relatives who need to be removed from the register of voters. The mobile registration exercise will run until 11th November, 2015, while registration at civic centres will continue until 31st March, 2016. At the end of the exercise, it is hoped that the commission will have an accurate register of citizens who will be eligible to vote in the 2016 Tripartite Elections. That will promote good democratic governance and, consequently, engender economic development in our country.
Budget Estimates for 2016
Sir, the Budget Estimates before the House will enable the ECZ to implement nine programmes in 2016, which is a very important year for the commission because of the Tripartite Elections and the referendum that will be held. The preceding two years, 2014 and 2015, have been used by the commission to prepare the ground for the delimitation of polling districts and ward boundaries, and the registration of voters as mentioned earlier. That has set the tone for the two important events on next year’s calendar. The commission has, therefore, provided for the cost of conducting the Tripartite Elections and holding the referendum. It has been planned that residual registration of voters be undertaken for two weeks in Match, 2016, before the final certification of the register of voters in July, 2016. These programmes are in conformity with the commission’s mission and will be undertaken under the powers provided for in the existing laws of Zambia.
Mr Chairperson, I now seek the support of the entire House in approving the commission’s allocation of K776,806,907.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Vote for this important institution of our country. In doing so, let me start by thanking the commission and its staff for all their hard work in the past years. I hope that they will continue doing the same for many more years to come.
Sir, I implore all the citizens in good standing and good political parties in this country to support the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), ...
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chilangwa: ... which has worked under very difficult circumstances, especially due to the actions of those who are in the habit of losing elections ...
Laughter
Mr Chilangwa: ... and not appreciating the great work that it has continued to do.
Mr Chairperson, in supporting what I have said, I appeal to the commission to reconsider some things that have happened over the last couple of months and I ask it to listen very carefully.
Sir, there has been a big mismatch. In certain parts of this country, voter registration has gone on very smoothly with big numbers being registered because there was no mismatch between the ECZ’s exercise and that of the Ministry of Home Affairs. In certain parts of this country, like in Luapula Province, however, …
Mr Lombanya: Even in the North-Western Province.
Interruptions
Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, I stood to say what I want, not what other people want me to.
Sir, the people of Luapula Province have been disadvantaged and that is unacceptable. The ECZ knew very well that the people of Luapula Province had not been issued national registration cards (NRCs), but it went round the province. With such a terrible mismatch, I put it on record that the registration of voters by the ECZ in Luapula Province will not end on 11th November, 2015. We will not accept it. Right now, not even a single NRC has been issued. Probably, tomorrow or Monday is when the issuance of NRCs will begin. The current situation creates an unfair political playing field. So, we cannot allow it to continue. The people who have been advantaged are the ones who keep condemning the ECZ instead of appreciating it. These are real issues.
Interruptions
Mr Muchima interjected.
Mr Chilangwa: Keep quiet, you hecklers.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!
Please, resume your seat.
Mr Chilangwa resumed his seat.
The Deputy Chairperson: I think I have to repeat myself. We are called hon. Members for the simple reason that we are leaders. As such, we must stick to unacceptable ways of behaviour. We must behave honourably, which means that when a colleague has been given a chance to speak, the rest should listen to him or her. Making running commentaries while seated is dishonourable conduct. That is why you get other hon. Members retorting and reacting the way they do.
Please, let us be honourable, for once.
Continue, hon. Member.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your protection.
Sir, I was saying that the mismatch between the activities of the Ministry of Home Affairs and those of the ECZ in Luapula Province is not acceptable and I want the ECZ to take it from me that the people of Luapula Province, particularly those in Kawambwa, whom I represent, will not accept to be disadvantaged. We should not allow such a situation to continue. The commission and the ECZ should have synchronised the issuance of NRCs with the registration of voters. Wherever the Ministry of Home Affairs started issuing NRCs, that is where the commission should have started, too, and the two processes should have progressed in sync. That is how civilised people do things.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the people of Luapula Province and Kawambwa, in particular, are saying that they will not allow the ECZ to stop the registration of voters on 11th November, 2015. The commission needs to give people adequate time to register so that they can be on the same playing ground with their colleagues who were advantaged.
Mr Chairperson, I am a man of few words. So, I end here.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important debate. From the outset, I wholeheartedly congratulate the current Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), Justice Chulu. He is a man of high integrity and I wish him well in that office. I also commend the ECZ Chief Executive Officer, Madam Priscilla Isaacs. I hope that the commission will discharge its duties effectively and without any intimidation or interruptions next year.
Sir, I am happy that Hon. Chilangwa talked about the extension of the mobile registration of voters. I also say that it is important for the ECZ to extend the programme because it was not in sync with the issuance of national registration cards (NRCs).
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mtolo: That is a cry of the nation, and I think that the ECZ must listen to us, as leaders and representatives of the people, when we talk and extend this exercise. What happened in Hon. Chilangwa’s constituency is similar to what happened in most constituencies.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Even in Keembe.
Mr Mtolo: Therefore, we cannot over-emphasise the need to extend the exercise. That is the demand of the people of Zambia, through us, their representatives.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mtolo for President.
Mr Mtolo: Thank you.
Sir, my second point is on regulations.
Sir, the hon. Minister has stated that one of the roles of the ECZ is to regulate elections and ensure that they are violence-free. Therefore, the commission has the mandate to come up with guidelines for the effective and efficient conduct of elections in this country. When the Patriotic Front got into power, it easily brought out the weaknesses of our electoral process and I think that the commission should learn from that and budget for measures to remedy them. As we pass this Vote, we should also take into account the need for the Government to present Bills to Parliament so that we can talk about how elections should be conducted. It is not the first time I have stood to say that it is better to stop electoral malpractices before they occur than to nullify election results because most of the culprits still bounce back into the House after the country loses a lot of money on the unnecessary by-elections.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mtolo: The Chairperson, many and I others have been victims of that. When the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) lost elections to the PF, it had fifty-five hon. Members of Parliament. The difference between the MMD and the current Ruling Party was only five seats. However, we are now about thirty-four and, chance allowing, our number could have been depleted further because of the weaknesses of the country’s electoral process.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mtolo: Sir, by-elections have been very costly to this country. The Government has spent a lot of money on them which could have been used to construct schools and hospitals. While the hon. Minister of Finance is finding it difficult to mobilise resources, his Government is wasting resources because of poor ECZ regulations. It is better for the ECZ to have laws that disqualify violent candidates, especially those found brandishing firearms, or corrupt candidates from contesting elections because the court process takes long and when by-elections are held, the same candidates win. I think that is wrong because money is spent. So, I urge the ECZ to come up with proper regulations to govern our elections. Otherwise, a lot of money will continue to be spent unnecessarily. I need not over-emphasise this point. Hopefully, my colleagues who will speak after me will emphasise it so that it is heard by the relevant authorities.
Sir, let me now talk about the delimitation exercise.
Sir, the hon. Minister talked about polling stations, but I think it is also important for the ECZ to divide large constituencies, such as Chipangali, Hon. Mwale’s constituency, Kasenengwa, …
Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikwapwasha: Keembe.
Mr Mtolo: … I am guided by the Bishop that I should include Keembe, …
Mr Chipungu: Rufunsa.
Mr Mtolo: … and Rufunsa. There are many constituencies that are too big to be represented by one person. So, if it means having a few more hon. Members in the House, may it be so. It is better to have a sizeable constituency like Chipata Central, which is relatively smaller, but has a large population. Otherwise, some hon. Members fail to visit all the areas in their constituencies.
Sir, having brought out these two issues, I now say that I support this Vote.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Vote for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). From the outset, I categorically state that the ECZ, in its current form, is impotent.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, there is a lot that needs to be done to ensure the ECZ is clothed with the power to manage elections in Zambia. I have no doubt that all of us who have participated in elections have noticed and observed the irregularities that have taken place during elections. We have also noted with concern that the ECZ appears to be helpless in curbing the irregularities. The laws pertaining to elections are very clear on what constitute electoral offences and the applicable punitive measures on those who abrogate the laws governing elections. The ECZ has just failed the people of this country in the enforcement of the laws. We have witnessed unprecedented levels of violence during elections, yet the ECZ has done nothing about it. It knows the perpetrators of this violence, but has done nothing to them. The commission has failed to be the arbiter and keeper of the peace. Many reports have been filed with the commission or the police, which is the commission’s agent in curbing violence, but the commission has done nothing about them. A number of allegations have also been made about ECZ officials colluding with the perpetrators of violence and evidence has been adduced, but nothing has been done to the ECZ officials and the Government officials.
Sir, we are aware that apart from the President and the Vice President, all the other Government officials are not authorised to use Government resources during elections, but we have noted with concern that hon. Ministers, District Commissioners (DCs) and other Government officers abuse Government resources with impunity, but nothing is done about it. The ECZ watches and abates the abrogation of the law. Even when we have filed in reports to the ECZ, the officers have informed us on a number of occasions that they cannot do anything for fear of reprisals from those in power and that they are helpless. So, they require a law that will mandate them to prosecute those who unleash violence on others or abuse Government resources during elections.
Sir, I hear our colleagues on your right saying that the elections have always been fair and that we, in the Opposition, are cry-babies. They can make those allegations now, but they should bear in mind that they have lost elections four times and had the same complaints that we now have. However, because it pleases them that they are the ones now in a position to abuse public resources, they now think that all is well. They should mark my words because their days of being in the Government are numbered.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: The few of them who may find themselves in the Opposition will start complaining about the things they are now supporting. So, it is better to have laws that will ensure that our elections are fair.
Mr Chairperson, I can hear what Hon. Chikwanda is saying. However, we should bear in mind that even the mightier United National Independence Party (UNIP) and the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) used to say similar things, but they fell once the people of Zambia decided to bring them down.
Sir, I ask the ECZ to emulate the way elections are managed in Kenya.
Sir, during elections in Kenya, the electoral commission establishes an ad hoc judicial system to handle electoral complaints. Equally, during the elections, the judicial processes are expedited. So, the election complaints are handled quickly and judgments passed. All those found guilty of abrogating the electoral code of conduct are disqualified. Maybe, that is the only way all the players can be assured a level playing field. So, I urge the ECZ to liaise with the Judiciary and establish a similar system for addressing violence, abuse and the abrogation of the laws during elections.
Mr Chairperson, I have heard my colleague, the hon. Member for Kawambwa, complain about the registration of voters, saying that some hon. Opposition Members are privileged to have their people receive nation registration cards (NRCs) in time for them to benefit from the voter registration exercise. I advise this House that the hon. Member’s sentiments are not correct because the situation in the Eastern, Southern, Western and Lusaka provinces is not different from what is obtaining in Luapula, the North-Western and Copperbelt provinces. The only provinces where NRCs were given prior to the registration of voters are the Northern, Muchinga and Central provinces. Speaking for the Southern Province, less than 50 per cent of the people who are illegible to receive NRCs and register as voters have not been afforded the opportunity.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, according to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, the issuance of voters’ cards will end on 11th November, 2015. It, therefore, means that a number of our people who have not been given NRCs will not be able to vote.
Mr Chairperson, I would also like you to take judicial notice of the fact that by December, 2015, the Western Province, especially the west bank, the North-Western Province and some parts of Luapula Province will be flooded. Therefore, the people there will have no access to the centres issuing NRCs until after May, 2016. Even the fourteen days extension in March, 2016, that the Government is talking about will not enable our people to get NRCs and register as voters. Further, we have to take note that even if the voter registration exercise continues to take place at the Boma, the people of Mpika, the largest constituency, cannot be in a position to vote if they do not have NRCs. In fact, even if they do, they cannot travel more than 200 km to the Boma to register as voters when they cannot afford to buy a bag of mealie meal because the exercise, then, becomes less of a priority to them.
Mr Chairperson, I have noted that I am running out of time. So, I will try to summarise my debate.
Sir, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has informed us that a referendum will be held simultaneously with the general elections next year. Mark my words when I say that with this haphazard way of registering voters, there is no way that the referendum can succeed.
Ms Lubezhi: Correct.
Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the Constitution of Zambia is very clear. It talks about eligible voters being captured in a referendum, not registered voters. If all eligible voters are not captured, the referendum will fail. So, the assurance that is being made to the people of Zambia regarding the holding of a referendum is a mere hoax.
Sir, the people of Zambia are looking forward to the amendment of Part III of the Constitution, which touches on their rights. Therefore, if the referendum fails, the rights of our womenfolk in this country will continue being trampled upon. They will never achieve the rights for which they have been aspiring. The women will never have equal rights with men. As you are aware, the current Constitution is flawed. That is why the churches want a Constitution that will have the Bill of Rights. However, if we fail to complete the national registration of voters, the Bill of Rights will fail. The people of Zambia, especially the women and children, will continue being second-class citizens. So, I call upon the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and the hon. Minister of Finance, who is seated next to him, to find the money to make the voter registration exercise smooth and streamline the issuance of NRCs. In Mwandi Parliamentary Constituency, less than 20 per cent of the eligible people have been issued with NRCs.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mwiimbu: Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency has suffered more than Mwandi and it will be worse in Mitete District as we get into the rainy season.
Finally, Sir, we will not allow ballot papers to be printed at the Government Printing Department. I am Mwiimbu, not the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi …
The Chairperson: Order!
You have run out of time.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Lungu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this chance to contribute and support the Vote for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). I have very few things to talk about, as most of the issues have been covered by my colleagues, especially Hon. Mtolo Phiri and Hon. Chilangwa.
Sir, from the outset, I commend the ECZ for being autonomous and doing a good job, especially in the January, 2015, Presidential By-election.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Dr Lungu: It put up a first-class performance. So, I will not hesitate to commend it for the way it carried out its duties. Obviously, there could be little hitches here and there but, overall, it did a commendable job.
Sir, the first appeal that I make to the ECZ is one that has already been made by my colleagues, which is that it extends the voter registration exercise.
Sir, I come from a rural constituency and the distances covered by the people to access services are quite long. So, if the exercise is stopped now, it means that many people who are eligible to vote will not be captured. So, I appeal to the ECZ, and I am sure that its officers are hearing me, to extend the exercise. Otherwise, nothing will be achieved.
Mr Chairperson, my second appeal to the ECZ is that it puts in place stiffer penalties, especially against those who perpetrate violence, and flout the rules and regulations during elections. For example, while we are all comfortably seated here, there are people, whom I will call shadow Members of Parliament, offloading mattresses in our constituencies, and that goes against the rules of electoral practices. So, the ECZ should disqualify those people who are distributing mattresses in our constituencies while we are here.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: Sir, we are here transacting serious national business here, but they are busy out there.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: I did not do very well in physics, but I wonder why they are called shadow Members of Parliament. Where is the shadow? I believe that my shadow is with me here, not with another person.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: So, I really do not know why they are called shadow Members of Parliament. I do not think that is normal. So, the ECZ should come up with a clear rule that penalises whoever is found wanting in our constituencies while we are seated here comfortably.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, we are working very hard here while some people are busy offloading mattresses and mealie meal in our constituencies. We do not want that to continue.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the ECZ is a very serious institution ...
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Dr Lungu: ... and I want it supported. Actually, I wish its allocation could be trebled because the commission has several activities to undertake in the coming weeks and months, one of which will be monitoring elections, and to elect means to choose or select. We will be choosing leaders at different levels. So, the ECZ should be given extra money. All of us must agree that the money given to the commission must be trebled to enable it to undertake its activities meaningfully.
Sir, my friends who have debated before me have already pointed out the important issues. So, I am reluctant to continue. All I can say is that I support this Vote.
Hon. Opposition Members: Continue.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Dr Lungu: However, I emphasise that the ECZ should mete out stiffer penalties on those who are in our constituencies when we are here in Parliament.
Laughter
Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I am glad to see that the shadow has also resumed the seat with the hon. Member.
Sir, in supporting this Vote, I have very few, but important points to make. I agree with Hon. Dr Lungu that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is an organ of governance and an institution of democracy. Today, some commend it while, at the same time, others condemn it. However, it all comes down to one thing: putting certain legislation in place. The ECZ will be, as Hon. Mwiimbu said, impotent. It will be moribund or even useless, if I am allowed to be extreme, as long as it is not capacitated and backed by legislation.
Sir, the Electoral Code of Conduct, which guides the ECZ, is nothing, but a document without a supporting legal framework. If we strengthen this institution through legislation, however, then, the sanctions that the ‘professor’, whose shadow is campaigning in Lundazi, was talking about will be taken care of.
Laughter
Mr Hamududu: It is Chama South.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, there is a shadow going around Zambia right now. I am being serious. I do not know how it separated itself from the owner, but the ECZ needs to do something about what I am about to say.
Sir, President Lungu has commenced his campaigns before the campaign period, and I challenge anyone among our colleagues on your right to dispute what I have said. All this falls on the lack of legislation I am talking about.
Interruptions
Mr Nkombo: Sir, tomorrow, we will brand all our party vehicles and I do not want the ECZ to lift a flag and ask us what we are doing. Neither should the police start questioning when we do that because there is a big poster of President Edgar Lungu canvassing for votes in next year’s election in Luanshya on the Copperbelt.
Prof. Luo: He is the President.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, some greenhorn is saying that he is President.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Ignore …
Mr Nkombo: The greenhorn?
The Deputy Chairperson: … those who are debating while seated because they have no authority to do so.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, I appreciate the guidance.
Mr Chairperson, the point I am trying to drive at here is that these are real life situations. We cannot have a set of regulations for one section of society that does not apply to another. The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House indicated very clearly that the ECZ is an autonomous body.
Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Nkombo: The Chairperson has guided that there will be no points of order.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Hon. Nkombo!
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: She is addressing me, not you. So, because you have usurped my responsibility, I will allow Hon. Prof. Luo to raise her point of order.
Laughter
Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, as you know, I am a young lady who rarely raises …
Laughter
Prof. Luo: … points of order, especially on my younger brother, Hon. Nkombo, who is debating very badly.
Sir, is Hon. Nkombo in order to come to this House with fabricated stories and compare the State President with a president with a small ‘p’?
I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.
The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Mazabuka Central may continue.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, if it pleases her, I will say His Excellency, or His Royal Majesty, President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is campaigning. That is my message.
Sir, it should be clear that the President has started campaigning and the ECZ requires to do something about it because it is not allowed. The period for campaigns has not been declared.
Mr Mbulu interjected.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, some greenhorn is still talking.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
I guided you not to worry about …
Mr Nkombo: About the greenhorn.
The Deputy Chairperson: … the people who are debating while seated.
Having said that, the point you are making makes it is very difficult to draw the line on what various political leaders are doing because other political leaders are also going out with motor vehicles laden with maize while others are also campaigning from market to market. So, please, let us concentrate on this Vote and leave campaign issues out. There is virtually no political leader who is not campaigning, whether directly or indirectly. So let us remain focused.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: Sir, your ruling is comforting because it basically now settles us, the uncomfortable, and probably unsettles the comfortable. It is good to know that the campaigning has started. That is precisely what I meant when I said that the ECZ does not have teeth to bite. It should have been able to announce the date on which the campaigns opened. That is the point I am making.
Mr Chairperson, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House said that the ECZ is there to promote democracy. In other words, it plays the role of a referee, just as you are seated in the middle to ensure fair play in the conduct of the Business of the House. In playing its role, the commission is guided by the Electoral Code of Conduct, which outlines breaches and penalties of our electoral process. On this score, earlier, someone said that there are those who are in the habit of losing elections. Like Hon. Mwiimbu, I wish to correct him on the number of times we have lost elections, which is three times only, not four. The fourth time, someone stole the victory from us.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: I can give a living example, right now, which can be verified at Liyoyelo Polling Station. I can remember what happened.
The Deputy Chairperson: The word ‘stealing’ is unparliamentary.
Mr Nkombo: Sir, while we were not looking, someone took our victory in an undignified manner.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am glad that one among us commended the result and processes of the 20th January, 2015, Presidential By-election. That person is my sister, but I will not mention her name. With a colleague of hers, she went at 0200 hours to cast aspersions at the then Chairperson of the ECZ to intimidate her into declaring someone a winner. That is a fact.
Interruptions
Mr Nkombo: We saw it on television and have the video clip. The ECZ was cowed by two women, ...
Mr Mwiimbu: Who are hon. Members of this House.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: The women were vicious.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: The culprits are even laughing.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Nkombo: Sir, they told the then head of the ECZ to declare a certain man winner, and I can recall that 200 votes for one of the candidates, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, were clearly stolen.
Mr Miyanda: Correct.
The Deputy Chairperson: The word ‘stolen’ is unparliamentary.
Mr Nkombo: Sorry, Sir.
Sena kubba, mu ciKuwa baamba buti?
They robbed, ...
Mr Hamududu: Swindled.
Mr Nkombo: ... swindled us of the victory.
Sir, I have said before that, as far as we are concerned, we did not lose on 20th January, 2015, and we can prove it. In case some people do not know the gearing effect, if what happened at that one station was repeated in just 2,000 out of about 5,400 polling stations, the total comes to more than the 27,000 votes by which the Patriotic Front (PF) won the last Presidential By-election. So, I want it put on record that I asked the commission to take note of such electoral breaches and effect penalties. As I said earlier, this House has to give the commission teeth to bite. If a person wields a gun in a by-election, …
Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi.
Mr Nkombo: … he or she must be disqualified.
Sir, today, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa has shown us clearly that the left hand of this Government does not know what the right hand is doing because his debate was full of lamentations. He complained about how disorganised the issuance of national registration cards (NRCs), which is a prerequisite to the registration of voters, was in his province. However, because of the nature of our colleagues, they did not care to understand that the situation in his province is identical to what prevailed in other provinces. The difference is that while we were able to confront the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and the ECZ, our colleagues on your right could not do it due to political patronage and patriarchal bias. They only found their voices to complain today, only five days before the exercise closes. So, we are singing the same song, which is that the Government has failed. This is a clear testimony of failure. The writing that the PF has failed to effectively undertake this exercise is on all the walls.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: Sir, the failure to effectively undertake the voter registration exercise has implications for Part III of the current Constitution, which concerns the holding of a referendum.
I think that it must be very clear, hon. Minister of Justice, that tamukaiboni referendum.
We will not see it.
The Deputy Chairperson: What did you say?
Mr Nkombo: Sir, I just translated it. It means that the PF Government will not see the referendum succeed because many people have been disenfranchised. If people have reached the voting age, but cannot vote because they do not have NRCs, it affects the …
Mr Milambo: Referendum.
Mr Nkombo: ... referendum. So, the bombshell to Zambians is that they must know, from this moment, that all this business of the PF Government posturing that it will bring the Constitution to the Floor of this House has been a hoax. It does not want the new Constitution. If you recall, it started off by saying that it would present Bills on ‘non-contentious issues’ and other flamboyant words that they used. However, in a week’s time we should start debating the Constitution Bill. So, where are the so-called non-contentious issues? When did the Government U-turn, and how many times will it do that?
Hon. UPND Members: Ninety days.
Mr Nkombo: The ninety days issue is an old story. Today, the Government is still telling the old ninety days story in the registration of voters and issuance of NRCs. I am sure that Zambians have wised up to the ninety days story.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: Mukalila!
The Deputy Chairperson: What is the meaning?
Mr Nkombo: It means, “You will cry.”
Ms Lubezhi laughed.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, issues to do with the ECZ are emotive. We know, for instance, that the commission has not had what it takes to act on people who propagate hate speech. In Zambia, today, one can stand up and accuse others of being Satanists. Yes, we all know that Satan exists. There is even much ado about others being Freemasons, yet the Government is run by Freemasons. So, this is my challenge to the hon. Minister of Justice, who knows that Freemasons are a registered society in Zambia: If they are as evil as people say they are, why does he not outlaw and de-register them tomorrow?
Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: Some people are taking advantage of the ignorant to deceive them that Freemasons drink human blood. I can name some people in the hon. Minister’s legal fraternity who are fully-fledged Freemasons, yet his party wants to accuse some members of the Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) Church of being Freemasons in order to canvass for votes.
Ms Lubezhi laughed.
Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi.
Mr Nkombo: We know that some people on the High Court Bench are Freemasons, yet the PF does not talk about them. Instead, it chooses to accuse political opponents of practising Freemasonry and Satanism to make them unpopular, when they are not even Freemasons …
Mr Sichone smiled.
Mr Nkombo: … like the one who is smiling. It is taking advantage of the limited knowledge of the masses to slander its opponents and make resented by voters. If they google ‘Freemason’, they will know that Freemasons are just a group of people like the Lions, Rotary, and Round Table clubs, yet some crazy Bishop stands up and shouts, “Freemasons” and then the same is given the podium at the National Day of Repentance, Prayer, Fasting and Reconciliation to apologise to those he had offended, which he did in broken English.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: No! We shall not be duped by such machinations.
Laughter
Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: Sir, defaming others to disadvantage them politically is a clear breach of the Electoral Code of Conduct.
Mr Chairperson, I have just said that the campaigns have started. Many who have died in this House or outside have been taken to the mortuary at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Ideal Funeral Home, Ambassador St Ann’s Funeral Home or the funeral parlour belonging to the Banda boys. Now, someone who wants to open a branch of Ideal Funeral Parlour in Kitwe is being turned into an object of public ridicule by being accused of being a Satanist. Will our colleagues be buried in a reed mat? Will they not be taken to a funeral parlour?
Laughter
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: Will their bodies be left to rot? Undertakers are legal entities but, just because some people want to win an election, they demonise political opponents, yet they do not do the same to the undertakers in Kitwe, like Cotton, who have been in the funeral business for a long time. Every time someone dies, someone rushes to say, “Twalaya kuli ba Cotton.” Today, just because someone wants to open a branch of Ideal Funeral Parlour, some politician stands up in Kitwe or goes to Chingola, where there is a campaign rally, the same rally to which I referred earlier, to say that United Party for National Development (UPND) members are Satanists.
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, please, go back to debating the Electoral Commission of Zambia.
Hon. Government Members: Yes!
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the PF wants to disadvantage us over votes that we have already got into our bag.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: Sir, just to fortify that point, as I rest my case, I will link it to what happened in the past.
Mr Chairperson, when PF members killed one of their own in Monze, they went on television and said that UPND members were murderers. Today, here I am speaking while the real murderer, who is a PF member, is in jail in Livingstone. The connection I am trying to make is that the person who said those who are trying to build a funeral parlour are Satanists, when he dies, he will be buried …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Nkombo: In Tonga, we say, …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
(Debate adjourned)
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HOUSE RESUMED
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
(Progress reported)
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The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 6th November, 2015.
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