Wednesday, 21st October, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
________ 

RULING BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

RULING BY THE HON. MR DEPUTY SPEAKER ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR G. NKOMBO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MAZABUKA CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY REGARDING THE ZAMBIA AIR FORCE HELICOPTER THAT CRASHED IN GWEMBE DISTRICT O 14TH SEPTEMBER, 2015

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Thursday, 15th October, 2015, when the House was considering the ministerial statement delivered by the Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. S. Kampyongo, MP, and the Member of Parliament for Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. B. Hamusonde, MP, was asking a point of clarification, the Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. G. Nkombo, MP, raised a point of order.

In his point of order, Hon. Nkombo, MP, stated that he had submitted a question of urgent importance on the Zambia Air Force helicopter that crashed in Gwembe District on 14th September, 2015, to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for processing under Standing Order No. 30 of the National Assembly Standing Orders (2005) Edition, but was advised that the question did not qualify to be processed under this category of questions. In this regard, he sought guidance from the Chair on whether or not such matters were not of an urgent nature. 

In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling to a later date to enable me study the point of order. I have since studied it and wish to render my ruling as follows: 

Let me begin by drawing the attention of the House to Standing Order No. 30 (1) on questions of urgent importance, which states as follows:

“30(1) Questions which have not appeared on the order paper but which are, in the Speaker’s opinion, of an urgent character and relate either to matters of public importance or to the arrangement of business may, with leave of the Speaker, be asked without notice on any day.”

Hon. Members, the Standing Order makes it clear that the discretion to determine whether or not a question qualifies as one of urgent importance lies with the Speaker. It is also clear that in exercising this discretion, the Speaker has to take into account whether or not the question is of an urgent character and relates to matters of public importance or the arrangement of the Business of the House. 

In his point of order, Hon. Nkombo, MP, seemed to suggest that by merely raising a matter of public concern, a question becomes one of urgent importance. However, according to Standing Order No. 30, issues of a question relating to matters of public importance or the arrangement of Business of the House are mere pre-conditions that determine whether or not it qualifies to be of urgent importance. When these pre-conditions are met, the Speaker uses his discretion to decide whether or not a question is of urgent importance. 

In the instant case, the matter on which Hon. Nkombo sought to file in a question of urgent importance occurred on 14th September, 2015.  Mr G. Nkombo, MP, filed in his question on 12th October, 2015. This was, at least, twenty-four days after the incident had happened. Considering the period between the occurrence of the event and the filing in of the question, it is apparent that it did not qualify to be a question of urgent importance. 

On 14th October, 2015, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Hon. G. Nkombo, MP, notifying him that the Hon. Mr Speaker had not approved the question as one of urgent importance and that it was being processed as an ordinary one under Standing Order No. 29. Hon. G. Nkombo, MP,, clearly dissatisfied with the Hon. Mr Speaker’s decision, decided to challenge it by raising a point of order on the Floor of the House. 

Hon. Members, our rules, Standing Order 61 in particular, clearly sets out the manner in which a Member, who is dissatisfied with a decision of the Chair, can challenge it.

Standing Order 61 provides as follows:

“61(1) Subject to Standing Order No. 62, any member who wishes to challenge the decision of the Chair shall do so by moving a substantive motion.

“(2) the substantive motion referred to in paragraph (1) may not be debated in the House unless the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services has so resolved that it be tabled before the House.”

Hon. Members, it is evident that a Member who wishes to challenge the decision of the Chair must do so through a substantive Motion. Attempts by Members to use points of order to challenge the Chair’s decision are thus unprocedural. In this regard, by challenging the decision of the Hon. Mr Speaker through a point of order, Mr G. Nkombo, MP, was out of order. 

I thank you.
_________ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

LINK ZAMBIA 8,000 KM ROAD PROJECT

129. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:
(a)    whether the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project was on schedule;

(b)    if not, what the challenges were; and

(c)    when the construction of Chembe/Milenge Road under the project would commence

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, according to the revised schedule for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, the project is on schedule. However, owing to the current challenges in the Zambian economy, the project will need further revision.

Mr Speaker, the major challenges being faced under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project include:

(a)    lack of adequate and timely release of funding;

(b)    limited contractor capacity;

(c)    decline in the value of the Zambian kwacha, which has led to an increase in project costs; and 

(d)    limited access to lines of credit by contractors, especially Zambians. 

Mr Speaker, the construction of the road from Chembe to Milenge is scheduled to commence in 2018. This may change following the imminent revision of the schedule for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project as a result of the above-mentioned challenges. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Deputy Minister for that answer, although it is not a good answer. The hon. Minister, …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, this is a procedural point of order.

Mr Speaker, the Order Paper for Tuesday, 20th October, 2015, started with Questions for Oral Answer, followed by Questions for Written Answer and the Supply Motion – Resumption of Debate – (Mr Hamadulu). Mr Hamudulu’s name appeared on the Order Paper because he never exhausted the allotted time for his debate last Friday. 
Mr Speaker, on the Order Paper for today, Wednesday, 21st October, 2015, there is Questions for Oral Answer, Questions for Written Answer and the Supply Motion – Resumption of Debate. However, my name is not appearing on the Order Paper, although I still have seven more minutes left of the time allocated for my debate. 

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling as to why my name is not on today’s Order Paper. 

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lukulu West, the other hon. Members are laughing at your point of order because I have just finished making a ruling relating to the contemporaneousness of our points of order. That happened yesterday, but you are raising the point of order today. So, already, your point of order is out of order. In any case, I will address your question. I listened to the debate yesterday, and the Speaker made a decision that resulted in your debate being curtailed. So, it is not possible for your name to appear on today’s Order Paper because your debate was curtailed. That is my advice.

The hon. Member for Chembe may continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the Kashikishi/Lunchindu Road is dilapidated. The Lubwe/Luwingu, Mansa/Matanda, and Chembe/Milenge roads have not been worked on. I can give more examples of roads that need to be worked on. Using the hon. Member of Mazabuka Central’s vocabulary, let me ask you this question, hon. Minister: In your heart of hearts, do you think that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is being fair to the people of Luapula? The Chembe/Milenge Road was supposed to be constructed under Phase 3 of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. Now, you are saying that it will be worked on in 2018. I forgot to include the Kawambwa/Luwingu Road, which goes out of our province, among the roads that need attention.  

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I think that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project has been equitably distributed in the provinces. Luapula Province has a contract length of about 205 km. So, it is not true that Luapula Province has not got a fair share of the project. How can the hon. Member say that Luapula Province has not been considered when we are talking about the Mansa/Luwingu Road? Every province has been considered. If anything, the people of Luapula Province should not complain because I am a stakeholder, and I come from there. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the schedule for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project has been revised. He also said that it was produced after the first one was revised and circulated to all of us. However, I am not aware of another revised schedule. Is the hon. Minister going to circulate the revised schedule? If he is able to give me a bonus answer, I would like to find out how many kilometres of the 8,000 km have been worked on so far. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I will answer one question since I am supposed to answer one question only. We are still finalising the revised copy. Thereafter, we shall communicate to everybody.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that according to the revised reschedule, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is on course. However, he also said that the schedule is being revised again. I do not understand this. Is the project on course or is the Government going to keep revising the schedule? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, in project management, monitoring and evaluation is a continuous process. The schedule was revised. However, due to the challenges that we are faced with currently, we feel that we need to revise it again. According to the revised schedule, the project is on course. However, we are in the process of revising it again because of the challenge we are faced with following the devaluation of the kwacha.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is a source of concern to the people of Luena. I have noticed that it has only benefitted Mongu Central Parliamentary Constituency. The hon. Minister had said, in this House, that the Limulunga/Mushitwambumu Road would be worked on, but nothing has been done so far. Is the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project supposed to benefit Mongu Central Parliamentary Constituency only or is it supposed to cover other constituencies in the province? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is supposed to benefit the entire country, and not just Mongu Central Parliamentary Constituency. We are going to implement the project in accordance with the plan which includes various constituencies in the province. So, the hon. Member should not complain because the project does not cover Mongu Central Parliamentary Constituency alone. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not engage the hon. Minister. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the people of Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency have benefitted from the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply is a very good Minister. 

Hon. Government Members: You are lucky! 

Mr Mbewe: Yes, we are lucky that we have benefitted from the project. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the project is on schedule (Looking at the Hon. Minister). He is a good hon. Minister, and he is my friend.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ask your question, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is on schedule, but most of the works under the project have stalled.  Maybe, works will resume in the next one or two months. Who is going to pay the penalty for the delay in the completion of works? Is it the contractors or the Government? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza, who is also good. 

Laughter 

Mr Mwimba. H. Malama: He is a joker!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, there are many contractors on site under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. According to the clauses in the contracts, if we delay to pay the contractors, then, we have to pay interest in order for the contractors to be back on course. In fact, we have already paid the Zambian contractors and are in the process of paying foreign ones. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I am happy to hear that the schedule for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is being revised. I only hope that the revision will be more realistic compared to the 1,600 km of roads you wanted to work on per year which, I know, would have been a challenge.  

Hon. Minister, why is it that when you do your planning, you ‘somersault’ and ‘jump’? 

Laughter 

Mr Shakafuswa: You work on other roads, but leave out the main road, which links the Western Province and Katuba. Why do you always leave out that road? What have the people of Mungule and Katuba done for you not to work on that road? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, there is nothing tribal about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. 

Mr Shakafuswa interjected. 

Mr Mukanga: We simply look at the development that is required in a particular area and try to provide it. We do not look at localities or where a particular hon. Member comes from. We look at where there is a need for a road. 

Mr Speaker, yes, we have a few challenges, but the people should be patient and give us time. We will achieve everything that we have set out to achieve. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is on course. How many kilometres have been worked on so far? 

Laughter 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, road works are measured in levels not kilometres because road construction is intricate. Perhaps, what the hon. Member of Parliament for Sikongo sees as complete work is the black top. In that case, about 469 km have been worked on so far. We have awarded a contract covering 2,696 km. So, we know what we are talking about. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: This distance I have mentioned may change tomorrow. So, it is actually increasing by the day. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is on course.

Mr Mutelo: Where? 

Mr Miyutu: Hon. Minister, is this ‘course’…

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: … indefinite and we should just be as patient as the people who are waiting for that ‘person’ to come down?

Laughter 

Mr Milambo: Who? Jesus?

Mr Miyutu: How far off is this ‘on course’ so that, at least, we can be confident that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project was really meant for the Zambians and it will be implemented? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the people of Mongu and Kalabo appreciate what the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is doing. The Mongu/Kalabo Road is almost complete and the people appreciate this too. I do not understand how the hon. Member can come here and start talking about the project being on course when the subject is not the project being on course, but the time that we have set to complete the works. So, please, be patient because we are working on the road. The people of Kalabo are happy and I am sure that the hon. Member of Parliament is equally happy. 

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: We came out victorious in the ward elections because the people have seen what we are doing. 

I thank you, Sir. 

 Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what aspects of the project were revised in the first instance and what they intend to revise. Is it the project costs, mileage or time frame? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are looking at how best we can revise the time frame because some roads will take longer to work on due to their length. In light of the devaluation of the kwacha, we shall also look at what we need to do in order to protect the interest of both the clients and contractors. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, going by the revised schedule of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, when will the Nampundwe Road in Shibuyunji District be worked on? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, that question is quite specific. Perhaps, the hon. Member can help me by filing in a question that will enable me to give him the specifics. Better still, he can come to my office so that we can talk. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I am disturbed. 

Mr Mutelo: Yes!

Mr Mooya: The schedule for the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project will be revised for the second time. According to what we were told in 2011, the project was supposed to be completed in five years. This is the fourth year and the hon. Minister is saying that only 469 km have been worked on so far. Is this the true position? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, every time the hon. Member for Moomba, who is a fellow engineer, asks a question, I appreciate it. However, I think that he appreciates that when it comes to engineering operations, we need to evaluate the performance every now and then to see the best way of implementing the project. We are also looking at the time frame in order for us to implement the project cost-effectively. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, now, I am even more worried about the Katunda/Lukulu Road. According to the hon. Minister, the schedule for the project is being revised because the kwacha has depreciated. If the strength of the currency improves in the coming month, is the schedule going to be revised again? 

Laughter 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I always appreciate questions by the hon. Member of Parliament because I think that he is dramatic.

Laughter 

Mr Shakafuswa: Dramatic? 

Mr Mukanga: Yes, he is my friend and he is dramatic when asking questions. 

Mr Speaker, I said that we are in the process of revising the project. We are looking at the various components of the project to ensure that both the contractors and the client do not lose out and the project is appreciated by both parties. For example, if you made an initial quotation for materials amounting to US$200,000, and it was converted into kwacha at K5 per United States (US) Dollar, it would amount to K1 million. However, if the projected cost was K1 million, it will not cost the same amount in US Dollars at the moment. We are trying to look at all the aspects of the projects in order to resolve the issues being raised by hon. Members.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, does the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project include the North-Western Province? If it does, how many kilometres have been covered so far?  
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the North-Western Province is part of Zambia under one President, ...

Mr Mwila: Edgar Lungu!

Mr Mukanga: … His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The project for the Solwezi/Chingola Road was launched a few months ago and it is being worked on. There is a lot of work that is going on in the North-Western Province. If the hon. Member has specific roads in mind, he can file in a specific question and we shall respond to it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: What it means is that the hon. Minister is unable to state the exact number of kilometres that have been worked on. All he is saying is that there are many other developments taking place in the North-Western Province other than the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, in the principal project, that is, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, many roads of economic importance and value to the country such as the Choma/Dundumwezi and Kalomo/Dundumwezi/Itezhi-tezhi, which link a constituency such as Dundumwezi that produces more maize than any other constituency in this country, have been left out. With the revision of the schedule that you are talking about, is there a possibility of this road being worked on?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Such suggestions can be taken on board as the schedule is being revised.

I thank you, Sir. 

PUBLIC SERVICE RETIREES IN GWEMBE

130. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(a)    how many officers in Gwembe District retired from the Public Service from January, 2008 to December, 2014; 

(b)    how many retirees at (a) were not paid their terminal benefits as of May, 2015;

(c)    what the total amount outstanding was; and

(d)     when the outstanding amount would be paid.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Mr Ng’onga): Mr Speaker, there are a number of Public Service Officers in Gwembe District who retired from the Public Service between January, 2008, and December, 2014. However, my response is confined to officers from the Ministry of Agriculture who retired between January, 2008 and December, 2014. 

Sir, eleven officers retired from the Ministry of Agriculture in Gwembe District. Eight of the eleven officers have not yet been paid their terminal benefits. The outstanding amount owed to the eight officers is K146,783.32. This will be paid as soon as the ministry receives funding from the Treasury.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ntundu: I thank you, Sir, for that response.

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my extreme right!

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, out of the eleven retirees, eight were not paid. Some of them retired as far back as 2008, while others retired in 2014. This means that some of them have not been paid their money for six years. I do not know whether these people eat grass like animals. 

Sir, can you help these colleagues who retired six years go. The hon. Minister has said that they will be paid when funds are made available. Are you sure that that is a satisfactory answer? 

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Ntundu, what is your question?

Mr Ntundu: Is that a satisfactory response? We do not know if they are eating grass like animals. If they have not been paid, ...
Mr Deputy Speaker: No, you are ...

Mr Ntundu: ... what are they eating? How are they taking their children to school?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am sure the hon. Minister got your question.

Mr Ntundu: I want to find out ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, no!

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: ... how they are taking their children to school.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Gwembe!

Mr Ntundu: What are they eating?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ah!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, ...

Mr Ntundu: I am sure they have not bought any new trousers in the past six years. 

That is my question, Sir. 

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: No. I will not ask the hon. Minister to respond because you are trying to be difficult with the Chair. You must learn to listen when the Chair is speaking.

Mr Ntundu: Sorry, Sir, but can he answer the question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I accept your apology.

Laughter 

Mr Ng’onga: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

I would like to appreciate the hon. Member of Parliament who is asking questions so that the people of Gwembe know that they have a true representative.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, our intention is to pay retirees their terminal benefits within the stipulated period. However, as I indicated in my response, when there are no funds from the Treasury, it is almost impossible to pay terminal benefits. Nonetheless, we are doing everything possible to ensure that retirees are paid as soon as the funds are made available.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, are retirees who have not been paid their terminal benefits still occupying institutional houses or have they been repatriated? 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, repatriation and leave pay are handled within the ministry when funds have been received. The bulk of the payment, which is the pension, comes from the Public Service Pension Fund. Those who have retired have been paid their repatriation allowances and are not occupying institutional houses.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that he sympathises with all the retirees who have not been paid their terminal benefits. However, all that he can do is to wait for the Treasury to release funds to pay the retirees. Money is deducted from employees’ salaries every month. This money is supposed to be part of the pension the employees get when they retire. The Government is saying that they are unable to pay the retirees because there is no money in the Treasury. What happened to the money that the retirees contributed when they were still in employment?  

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, the matter that was raised was that of the payment of retirement benefits on the pension contributions that employees make to the Public Service Pension Fund. The response did not delve into the payment of benefits to which employees contribute to the Public Service Pension Fund.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are about eight people in Gwembe who are awaiting payment of their terminal benefits. There are many retirees who are still occupying institutional houses in certain rural areas, making it difficult for new officers to settle. Now that there is a problem of insufficient funds, is the hon. Minister going to take stock of the various departments in his ministry in order to sort out this problem?
 
Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we are very concerned about the plight of serving officers who are not able to occupy institutional houses because they are occupied by retired officers. Like the hon. Minister has indicated, we are on top of issues and we know the numbers. Currently, there are eight retirees in Gwembe but, countrywide, we have a backlog of 370 retirees. So, we are on top of this. The hon. Deputy Minister has indicated to the House that we are not sitting idly, but are doing everything possible to pay all the retired officers. This is not only for the sake of their families, but also for the purpose of freeing the much required housing for employees to occupy.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that the non-payment of terminal benefits is not by design. So, I would like to put it to him that it is the failure of his Government. Does the hon. Minister have a strategy to liquidate this debt or he is working with the Treasury to ensure that the retirees are paid? The hon. Minister has just said that his ministry is doing everything possible to pay the retirees and yet, if this was a by-election, money would have been released. What is the problem when it comes to paying the people who have served this country for a long time?

Mr Ntundu: Diligently!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, this extremely capable hon. Minister indicated to this House that the ministry is working around the clock to handle this matter. We have the statistics on the people who are affected. For the sake of the hon. Member who does not seem to be interested in the response because he is making unnecessary running commentaries, I wish to indicate to him that whereas the Budget for 2015 had an allocation of K3 million for retirees, we managed to get K7 million from the Treasury, which is more than double the amount in this year’s Budget. That shows the seriousness we have attached to this matter. So, I do not think that any politicking will solve the problem. This is a big challenge that all of us ought to handle. Let me remind my hon. Colleague that he, too, is a Member of this House and, very soon, we shall be discussing the Budget. He is at liberty, as a concerned hon. Member of Parliament, to propose amendments to the Budget if he thinks that the allocations we are making are not enough so that we can liquidate this debt. We shall only be delighted to see him take action rather than just being rhetorical.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I can see the hon. Minister is getting annoyed instead of listening to my question. 

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in whom I believe, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Does that point of order relate to what the hon. Minister said?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am asking you a question.

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, it is in relation to the question. 

Mr Mbewe: Sir, the hon. Minister has said that there are more than 300 officers who have retired from his ministry. Considering the Government is not employing new staff, have the 300 retired officers been replaced?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, most of the positions have been filled. The hon. Member, who is a keen follower of development in the agriculture sector, should be aware that, only a few months ago, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock got authority from the Treasury to recruit 500 extension officers. That figure far supersedes the 370 who are still awaiting payment of their terminal benefits. 

I thank you, Sir.

SURFACE WATER RETENTION

132. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to improve the retention of surface water in various water bodies countrywide;

(b)    if so, how;

(c)    whether the Government had any plans to start harvesting and conserving rain water for future use; and

(d)    if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to improve the retention of surface water bodies countrywide.

Sir, this is being done through the Dam Construction and Rehabilitation Programme. The Government has allocated funds for the countrywide identification of sites to develop small, medium and large-scale dams under the Dam Development Plan. The exercise is undertaken in all districts in collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture, and district councils.

Sir, the Government has plans to harvest and conserve rainy water for future use through the construction of small, medium and large-scale dams to harness and conserve run-off water. 

Mr Speaker, the harvesting and conservation of rain water for future use has been an on-going activity. Previously, the Government planned to construct four dams only per year, but this has since been scaled up. The Government’s plan is to construct 100 dams countrywide by 2018.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government plans to construct dams in all the districts in the country, including Kalabo, as a way of conserving water. When do we expect the plans to be implemented?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, requests for dams by the communities should be made through the district councils, Department of Water Affairs and the Ministry of Agriculture at district level. Requests communities that were submitted to districts and provinces have been taken into consideration in the Dam Construction and Rehabilitation Programme. So far, 851 sites have been identified for this. The inventory for existing dams that require rehabilitation is being compiled. So, next week, we shall give all hon. Members of Parliament information on the 851 sites that have so far been identified. This is being done with the support of the Government and the World Bank, and US$50 million has been set aside for this project.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, sites for dams in Mumbwa were identified by the communities with the assistance of the District Agricultural Coordinating Officer (DACO).

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, is the Chief Government Spokesperson, Hon. Kambwili, in order to turn this House into a bedroom and continue sleeping?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is his way of listening.

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, sites for dams in Mumbwa were identified and the DACO was very helpful in this exercise. We believe this information has reached the ministry hence on. When are the dams going to be operationalised or are they among the 851 sites that the hon. Minister has mentioned? What was required was done, but nothing happened in the last four years.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that nothing was done. I will follow up the matter with our line ministry because the DACO falls under the Ministry of Agriculture.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Government had planned to construct four dams every year and the exercise would be undertaken in every district. He further stated that the Government plans to construct 100 dams countrywide by 2018. Meanwhile, 851 sites for dams have been identified. Since they plan to construct 100 dams by 2018, this means that they will not construct the dams the communities requested for. Does that show seriousness in water harvesting? 

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, some programmes are funded by the World Bank and Africa Development Bank (ADB) while others are funded by the Government. Eight hundred and fifty-one sites have been identified. However, the Government plans to construct 100 dams by 2018 and these are not among the 851. We shall distribute information on the 851 sites that have been identified. So, if you have identified a site for a dam or the need for a dam in a particular area, you can submit your request to the Department of Water Affairs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, of the four dams that were scheduled to be constructed every year, how many were constructed last year?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I said the programme of constructing four dams every year has been expunged because the Government has sourced funds to construct 100 dams by 2018.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that 851 sites have been identified for the construction of dams. However, the Government plans to construct 100 dams, and US$50 million has been set aside for this project. This means that twenty-five dams will be constructed every year in the next four years. The demand for water has increased and the Government should provide water to every household by 2015. Is this attainable?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, hon. Members should pay attention as we give responses. I said that the World Bank has allocated US$50 million for a countrywide programme for the identification of sites for the construction of dams.

Mr Miyanda: That is not what you said!

Interruptions

Mr Zulu: Yes, I said that the World Bank has allocated US$ 50 million … 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

I do not like the exchange of words between the hon. Minister and the hon. Member on the left. Let the hon. Minister complete his response.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I said that requests for the identification of dam sites can be made to the Department of Water Affairs. This is a big project …

Mr Livune: Ah!

Mr Zulu: … and US$50 million has been set aside for this. What is wrong with that?

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

FEEDER ROADS IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE

133. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    how many feeder roads were earmarked for rehabilitation in the Eastern Province in 2015 and 2016;

(b)    of these, how many were in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency; and

(c)    if none, why.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, approximately 400 km of feeder and district roads have been earmarked for rehabilitation with funding from the World Bank. The specific number of roads to be worked on in the Eastern Province will only be determined after the finalisation of the study under the Eastern Region Inclusive Growth Project (ERIGP).

Sir, the number of roads to be worked on in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency will only be known after the study and input from the Provincial Administration and local authorities.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Have you answered part (c) of the Question?

Dr Mwali: It does not apply, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Okay.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, when is the compilation of feeder roads, which the Minister is talking about, going to be completed so that we know the roads that will be worked on under this programme?

 Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, firstly, let me say that we all know that the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is now under the Ministry of Defence. Therefore, most of the feeder roads will be worked on by the Ministry of Defence. However, the study will commence in the first quarter of 2016 and the rehabilitation works are expected to commence soon after the study.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, we have been told before, on the Floor of this House, that since the feeder roads are in our constituencies, the names of the roads to be worked on should be submitted through the local authorities for consideration by the ministry. This means that the hon. Member of Parliament representing the people of Chasefu should have known by now how many roads in the constituency are earmarked for construction under the project.

Mr I. Banda: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that 400 km of roads in the Eastern Province will be covered under this project. Of course, we expect input from the local authorities and the actual number of roads per districts will be known in the first quarter of 2016.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

________

 BUDGET 2015

(Debate resumed)

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, let me begin my debate by paying special tribute to the hon. Minister of Finance for the 2016 Budget that was presented to the House on 9th October, 2015.

Sir, the hon. Minister gave us a clear picture of where we are, as a nation, with regard to economic performance. From what he told this House, there is almost nothing for us to celebrate.  As a country, we are in a precarious situation and we should all brace ourselves for extreme hard times ahead of us.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made it clear that Zambians are only spectators, as they do not participate in the economic affairs of this country because the rate of borrowing, which is at 20.5 per cent, is very high. Therefore, they cannot borrow. This is a very sad picture.

Sir, any economy that is worth its salt is enchored on the participation of its citizenry in that economy. If we cannot participate, as Zambians, the question that one would ask is: Where is the economy anchored? All of us in the House should critically examine that statement from the hon. Minister and its implications on our future, as a nation. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister also said that despite the continuous economic growth in our country for over a decade, unemployment and poverty levels have remained high. This is the stark reality of the economic situation of our country. So, what is the meaning of the figures when we talk about the gross domestic product (GDP)? The hon. Minister is saying that while the GDP figures are changing every year, unemployment and poverty levels are still high. Given that situation, what is it that we, as a nation, can do? 

Sir, the hon. Minister also said that the projected 7 per cent growth in our economy this year will not be achieved. Instead, we may achieve 4.6 per cent. What are the implications of that for the country? Where are we, as a nation, heading to and where are we at the moment? This is a matter that we, as representatives of the people in this House, should seriously interrogate.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister further said that the external debt is actually chocking us, as a country, because, in the last nine months alone, we had to spend U$225.4 million on debt servicing. If you multiply that by the current exchange rate of the kwacha to the United States Dollar, this is a colossal amount of money which is going. Given that kind of scenario, where are we, as a country?

Sir, of course, the hon. Minister told us that there are negative developments in the mining sector which are threatening the employment status of our people. This means that many people are likely to lose jobs. Consequently, there will be suffering among the greater majority of those who are employed in the mines.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister also said that the projected production level of copper of 880,000 metric tonnes will not be achieved. We may achieve somewhere around 400,000 metric tonnes this year. That is, the milk that produces the cow ... 

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: The cow that produces the milk!

Laughter

 Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, I am sorry. It is the cow that produces the milk. It was a slip of the tongue.

 Laughter
 
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am delighted that Hon. Lubinda is paying attention, ...

Mr Lubinda: I am, Sir!

Prof. Lungwangwa: ... and he has corrected me that, indeed, it is the cow that produces the milk, which is now becoming less. Where are we, as a country? Consequently, external resources that are coming into the country are low. 
Sir, the hon. Minister also said that if you look at the horizon, you will see that the country’s foreign investment portfolio is reducing. These are the stark realities of where we, as a country, are. The hon. Minister was very honest by saying that we should not be dancing or smiling because we are in a serious situation and that the country is in big trouble. In his speech, the hon. Minister said that the inflation rate for food has risen to 8.1 per cent from 7.4 per cent. He also said the pressures of the exchange rate and electricity supply would eventually impact negatively on the rate of inflation and that our people are headed for hard times. They may not be able to put food on the table because it will be very expensive. The hon. Minister is a very honest man. Clearly, when you are over sixty years, you must be honest.

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, you must say things the way they are because you have seen it all. You do not beat about the bush, but tell the truth. What the hon. Minister has told us is the truth. The country is in trouble. So, we do not expect any one of us to jump and say that we are doing fine when, in fact, not. We are in problems, economically, and our people will soon see the suffering and untold misery of the economic problems that we are facing.

Mr Speaker, the sad part of it is that we are reverting to the problems of the 1980s and 1990s. Those of us who were there fully understand the situation very well. In the 1980s and 1990s, Zambia was chocked by indebtedness. We suffered high interest rate repayments, had debt servicing problems and we did not have money available for the development of our country. I remember very well that the last secondary schools were constructed in the 1980s. Lumezi and Milanzi secondary schools were left at slab level until recently when the construction was completed. This is where we are at the moment.

Sir, if you look at this Budget, you will see that we are now at a stage where interest rates repayments for both domestic and external loans are extremely high. The figure in the hon. Minister’s speech clearly shows that both our domestic and external interest rates for next year alone will be K7,164,900,000. That is more than the amount of money that is going to be spent on the health sector. If you add the interest rate of K2,660,000,000 to K7,164,900,000, the amortisation is projected at K9,824,900,000. That is about one fifth of the Budget to go towards servicing the loans. This is a lot of money for a poor country like ours. K9,824.900,000 is thirty-five times more than what we are going to spend on water and sanitation. What that means is that if we did not borrow such huge amounts, we could have a bit of money available to improve water and sanitation for our people. As it is, that money is lost and so the quality of life of our people cannot be improved.

Mr Speaker, the money from the Treasury to go towards servicing the loans is 1,964 times more than the money that is projected to be spent on fisheries development. That money could have been channelled towards improving the fisheries as well as the quality of life of our people. Further, the money that will go towards servicing the debt is twenty-five times more than the money we are going to spend on medical infrastructure and equipment, and thirty-two times more, ...

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to raise this point of order. Is Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa in order to debate solemnly ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: So what?

Mr Muntanga: ... to the extent that he is crying? Is he in order to continue debating to a point where all the other hon. Members are crying over the Budget?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, I did not see the hon. Member for Nalikwanda Parliamentary Constituency cry. I also did not see any other person, other than yourself, do that. So, hon. Member for Nalikwanda, you may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this, indeed, is a solemn occasion. Those who have looked at the 2016 Budget critically, like Hon. Muntanga, will agree that this is a solemn occasion. The amount of money, ...

Mr Deputy Speaker:  But you were not crying.

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the amount of money from the Treasury to go towards servicing the loans is thirty-two times more than the money projected to be spent on student bursaries in the universities.

Mr Speaker, this is what I meant when I said that we are going back to the dark days when we bitterly complained about the effects of the country’s indebtedness. We asked those we had borrowed money from to forgive the nation, and hence the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative. The argument, in simple terms, was that we were unable to meet human development and improve the quality of life of our people because a lot of money from the Treasury went towards debt servicing.

Mr Speaker, the world heard our cry and those whom we had borrowed money from forgave us with the hope that we would now be on a trajectory that is anchored on human development. However, it is clear, from the heavy debt that we are incurring, that we are going back to the days when resources that were generated through the Treasury did not go towards meeting the needs of our people. It should be noted that during that time, there were inadequate or no resources to build schools, clinics or improve road infrastructure. 

Mr Speaker, we have a big problem and those on your left have warned that the rate at which we are borrowing will eventually choke or paralyse our country. We are unlikely to see any improvement in the quality of life of our people any time soon. From the 2016 Budget Speech, it is now evident that we are in trouble. Therefore, there is absolutely no point in our colleagues in the Executive patting themselves on the shoulders given the figures in the Budget. They have brought the country to its knees. This is the bottom line of the 2016 Budget. Soon, we shall be seeing untold misery on the faces of our children, mothers and youths because of the economic malaise the country is in.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to take Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s words as my own.

Interruptions

Mr Mooya: According to him, things have gone terribly wrong. 

Sir, I want to dwell on the subject of infrastructure development on which the Vision 2030 and Agenda 2064 hinge on. There are several issues that caught my attention in the Budget Speech, but I will concentrate on infrastructure development because I am heartbroken. 

Mr Speaker, the question by Hon. Mbulakulima on the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project made me sad. A similar question was asked by Hon. Mwila in 2014. In response to that question, the Government said that only 215 km of road under the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project were completed in 2014. This was three years after the project had been launched. Today, four years later, we are told that only about 400 km out of 8,000 km have been completed. 

Looking at the Budget, I see that there is K3.5 billion allocated for domestic debt interest. I imagine that most of the money from this domestic debt went towards paying road contractors. However, the work that has been done in the four years of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is negligible. According to the hon. Minister’s response to Hon. Mwila’s question in 2014, contractors were on site and 2,260 km for road works were contracted. Alas, only 215 km of the 2,260 km were completed. If I got the hon. Minister right, about 4,000 km road works have been contracted to date, but only about 400 km have been completed. 

Sir, this means that the contractors are idling or doing very little work. We should note that if a contractor goes on site and does not do any work because of delayed payments, there are penalties to be paid by the client. 

Mr Speaker, it is heartbreaking and unacceptable to see that K3.5 billion has been allocated for domestic debt interest when there is very little to show on how the debt has been used. I wanted to go deeply into this matter, but I have been put off. 
Mr Speaker, the second and final issue I would like to comment on is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to increase the CDF allocation per constituency unconditionally.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya: We should not wait for the revision of the current CDF Guidelines. I have been calling for an increase in the CDF to K5 million. However, a lot of water has gone under the bridge due to the increase in the inflation rate and devaluation of the kwacha. Therefore, I suggest that the CDF be doubled to K10 million. This fund is doing a lot of wonders in our constituencies. Therefore, it should be raised without coming up with any new conditions.

Mr Speaker, secondly, I would like to appeal that the CDF be disbursed simultaneously to all the 150 constituencies, as was the case in the past. The ministry charged with this responsibility should not be selective in the disbursement.

Mr Speaker, thirdly, the authorisation of expenditure on the next CDF must be relaxed because, sometimes, the projects are delayed while waiting for a ‘green light’ from the provincial headquarters and Lusaka. 

Mr Speaker, the retirement of the CDF is supposed to be done yearly. However, I propose that it be revised to two years. This is because one year is a short period in which to implement a project. I will give you an example of a circular that was issued, asking for any project to be implemented using the CDF, such as the construction of a dip tank, to use standard drawings from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock and that the drawings should be accompanied by bills of quantities. This is for the information of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, if he is here. 

Mr Kampyongo indicated assent.

Mr Mooya: The other example of projects is the construction of storage sheds or milk collection centres like the one we are putting up in my constituency. We are required to get drawings from the line ministries, but the procurement process has now been extended. In addition, when you get the drawings, they are not complete, as some parts are missing, especially the engineering drawings and the bill of quantities. This requires more time and not one year. I propose that the retirement of the CDF be extended to two years.

Finally, Mr Speaker, if the CDF is not utilised in an apportioned year due to the problems on the utilisation of the CDF that I have highlighted, the next allocation is not disbursed. As already proposed, the CDF should be given regardless of whether or not the previous one has been utilised. Let the money accumulate …

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: … because it will be utilised one day.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: It is very unfair not to disburse the CDF for a particular constituency because it has not completely utilised the earlier one. Like I said earlier, there are problems that are encountered during the utilisation of the CDF. So, let us not limit the time for retiring the funds.
Mr Speaker, like I said, I have been put off by what happened earlier. So, let me stop here.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let me remind the House that today is 21st October, 2015. So, we only have seven days before 28th October, 2015, when the debate is supposed to end. 

Mr Livune: Oh! 

Mr Deputy Speaker: I know that a number of Members who have not debated …

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Deputy Speaker: … still have a lot of time to debate today. So, …

Mr Nkombo: I can repeat!

Mr Deputy Speaker: No! There is no repeating.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I will still appeal to those of you who have not debated to, please, indicate. Otherwise, you will lose your opportunity to debate.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister in Charge of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1606 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 22nd October, 2015.

_____________________________

 

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

LAND DISPUTES IN KAPIRI MPOSHI

131. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:

(a)    what the cause of the land dispute between Chief Mukonchi and the Chibwe Multi-Purpose Co-operative Society in Kapiri Mposhi Parliamentary Constituency was;

(b)    how much land the Co-operative Society owns; and

(c)    when the dispute would be resolved.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Ms Ngimbu): Mr Speaker, the land dispute between Chief Mukonchi and Chibwe Multi-Purpose Co-operative Society in Kapiri Mposhi Parliamentary Constituency is over the control of the Kakwelesa Agricultural Resettlement Scheme land, which is under the governance of Chibwe Multi-Purpose Co-operative Society Board of Directors. Sir, it is important to note that Chief Mukonchi, in 1965, allowed the Government to establish Kakwelesa Agricultural Resettlement Scheme as a resettlement scheme.

Mr Speaker, Chibwe Multi-Purpose Co-operative Society controls approximately 10,000 hectares which is divided into 48 farm blocks. The Co-operative Society does not have the certificate of title for the land it controls.

Mr Speaker, the Government is in the process bringing all parties together so that they matter can be resolved once and for all.

I thank you, Sir.