Friday, 16th October, 2015 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____________ 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

THE PAMODZI CARNIVAL

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, further to the notice circulated to all hon. Members of Parliament dated 13th October, 2015, inviting you to attend a national cultural programme called ‘The Pamodzi Carnival’ being organised by the Ministry of Tourism and Arts on Saturday, 17th October, 2015 at 0900 hours, I wish to inform the House that the event will instead start at 0830 hours. Kindly take note of the change. 

 I thank you.
___________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 20th October, 2015, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any.  This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will continue the debate on the Motion of Supply. 

On Wednesday, 21st October, 2015, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.

Sir, on Thursday, 22nd October, 2015, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.  

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 23rd October, 2015, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of National Development’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Then the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with debate on the Motion of Supply.

I thank you, Sir.

_________

HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF DEVELOPMENT PLANNING’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, sometime last week, the Chief Government Spokesperson assured the nation that the price of mealie meal would not be increased. Further to that, the hon. Minister of Agriculture gave the same assurance to the House. Soon after that, Spar Supermarket increased the price of mealie meal from K65 to K77.10. Can Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning’s comment on what could have led to the millers disobeying what the Government had said.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Sir, there must have been a lot of miscommunication between the Ministry of Agriculture and Millers Association of Zambia (MAZ). It was explained on the Floor of this House by the hon. Minister of Agriculture that the millers would not engage in increasing the price of mealie meal before they had dialogued with him. So, the issue of one of shops increasing the price of mealie meal to that level means that it perhaps had not received the information in time. I hope that the dialogue still continues so as to ensure that the mealie meal prices to do not go up.

Mr Speaker, in another breath, let me say that there are some millers who are determined to secure cheap maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). These same millers are doing everything possible to put in place measures that will frustrate the Government so that they can get their way.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear! It is a cartel.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the rainy season has almost started. When will the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) pay the farmers that supplied maize to it?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, money was released to the Ministry of Agriculture, I think, a few days ago. As hon. Members are aware, the process takes long because after the money is deposited in some banks, transactions may take a few extra days. However, as far as we know, adequate funds were allocated to the ministry for that purpose, as well as for the payment of money owed to those who transported the maize to the FRA depots.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, we almost had a crisis in Liuwa this year. The Grade 9 pupils were told that they were going to write information and communication technology (ICT) examinations and yet, the Government had not provided computers. We are grateful that the examination has now been cancelled. The other day, we heard that computers were being distributed in some Patriotic Front (PF) controlled areas secretly.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: I think twenty computers were said to have been distributed. Can we hear from Her Honour …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The question is being directed to Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning.

Dr Musokotwane: What is the Government’s programme for distributing computers to primary or basic schools in rural areas? We want to know how to access this equipment so that the PF does not share it secretly.

Mr Kambwili: That is childish!

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Her Honour the Vice-President.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sorry, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You know! I think if we have to conduct our business properly. It does not pay for anyone of us to be seen to be disobeying the rules that we made ourselves. As it should be, I am glad that the clock has been stopped.

You see, we want to show you why, sometimes, we are said not to be doing what we are supposed to be doing. Yesterday, somebody complained that we seem to be favouring the Members on the right side of the House. In my response, I promised to look into that allegation.  

Now, on my right, I have an hon. Minister shouting on top of his voice. What do you expect me to do?

Hon. UPND Members: Chase him!

Mr Deputy Speaker: No!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is my prerogative.

I am appealing to the hon. Minister to, please, tone down.

Hon. UPND Members: Which Minister?

Mr Nkombo: It is Kambwili!

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is Hon. Kambwili!

Mr Mwiimbu: Let us tone down!

Mr Mbewe: Uyo anajaila!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, may you continue. 

We are disturbing her line of thought.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, it is the desire of this Government to promote the use of information communication technologies (ICTs) in our education system. The Ministry of Education is currently distributing computers to schools. This is being done in a phased manner. There is no discriminatory criterion which is being used to choose which schools to give computers to. All the schools in the country will receive computers when funds are available for this purpose. The allegation that the Government Ministers are sharing computers in their areas is not correct. The schools in Nalolo which is the constituency which I represent have not been given computers despite me being the Vice-President of the PF. That clearly shows you that there is no discrimination whatsoever being used in the distribution of the computers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, 18th October, 2015 was declared by His Excellency the President as a national day of prayer, fasting and reconciliation. Unfortunately, this declaration has been turned into a political debate. What is her comment over what is happening?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, this country was declared a Christian nation a long time ago. It is extremely unfortunate that the declaration by the President to observe a day of prayer, fasting and reconciliation has been turned into a political debate. 

Mr Speaker, it is surprising that those who claim that Christianity is their religion can stand up and condemn those who want to pray to God. They have even gone as far as insinuating that the prayers which will be offered to God on the 18th October, 2015 will not be answered.

Mr Muntanga: Eh!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, no one had said that the economic problems which have beset our country will be resolved in one day after the prayers. As a Christian nation, we pray to God when we want to forgive each other and reconcile with each other. This is in line with the traditional belief …

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … of comradeship, religious affinity and understanding.

Mr Sing’ombe: Comrade?

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘comradeship’.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, those who are discouraging people from going to church and participating in the prayers are not true believers.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: They are not real Christians.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: They are pretenders…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … who want to show the country that they believe in God and yet they do not.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: So, I do not know which other God they believe in.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chikankata.

Mr Nkombo stood up to speak.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chikankata.

Mr Nkombo: It is me, Sir!

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, the list here says Chikankata.

Mr Nkombo: He is here seated, but I have indicated.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Okay, in that case, let us now have the hon. Member for Mapatizya asking his question.

Laughter

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the people of this country have been told that the load shedding is due …

Mr Habeenzu: What has happened?

Mr Miyanda: … to the water level of the Lake Kariba which is low because of the poor rainfall in the last rainy season. One thing which has not been told to the people of Zambia is that the Zimbabweans are pumping millions of litres of water at a place called Dekadrum for their mines in Hwange. What is the Government doing to stop the Zimbabweans from pumping more water from the Lake Kariba?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the Zambezi River Authority is a shared asset of the Zambian and Zimbabwean Governments which is used to regulate the usage of water in the Lake Kariba. We have not received any information to the effect that Zimbabwe is drawing more water than we are doing from the lake. We are going to follow up the matter in order to ascertain the basis of the allegation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask Her Honour the Vice-President, when the road connecting Chama and Lundazi is going to be tarred. We were assured on the Floor of this House time and again that the works on the road would commence by September, 2015. Unfortunately, up to now, the road works have not started.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question. I believe that the hon. Member will obtain a better answer if a question was brought to the House for the relevant ministry to tackle it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning can choose not to answer my question. The threshold for on the counter cash transactions in terms of dollars have changed from US$5,000 to US$100,000 for firms and US$5,000 to US$10,000 for individuals. Could I know the rationale for this change and whether or not it has repercussions on the volatility of the kwacha since we have a crisis in that area. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, this Government is not prepared to introduce exchange controls. We have allowed the market to operate freely when handling local and foreign currencies. The hon. Member indicated that I may choose not to answer the question.  I have decided to take that route.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, the Government has been selective in the identification of the people in need of relief food. This is so evident in my constituency. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning when the Government will start to deliver relief food to areas which are in need.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, relief food was distributed to forty-eight districts in the country that experienced low levels of rainfall. However, it has transpired that more districts need to be put on the list in order for the people in these areas to receive relief food. We are looking into this and monitoring on a daily basis which districts are the most vulnerable and in need of relief food. I am sure that the district that the hon. Member comes from will be considered in this vein.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, as I stand in this House, I am worried as an hon. Member of Parliament and a citizen of this country with regards to what is happening in our country. We are seeing and hearing strong language from people, particularly in both print and electronic media. I would like to get a comment from Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, as a mother, on why we should allow this to be happening in our country. We have a situation whereby traditional leaders, politicians and church leaders are in the forefront of issuing statements with very strong language or insults against one another. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the use of bad language in our newspapers has been of great concern to the Government simply because if we tear each other to pieces like is currently prevailing, we send a very bad message to outsiders who want to bring their resources into Zambia for investment. No one will bring their money into a country where there are inflammable statements and no respect for the leadership. 

Mr Speaker, no matter how much you differ with any political leadership, the way we conduct ourselves towards each other in the newspapers, online media and all sorts of publications, if rude, is doing a disservice to this country. I think that this is a lack of patriotism and we have talked about this issue before. Even if you want to be in power, that is not the way to drive your agenda. If you came to power and was followed by such negative messages, you would also feel that people were being unfair on you.

Mr Speaker, now, we are hearing messages of this kind from our traditional leaders. That is extremely unfortunate. I know that sometimes traditional leaders or other leaders may not have said what is reported in the newspapers. It is just situation whereby words are put in their mouth. So, we have to be very careful when we issue statements as leaders because they can be manipulated by those that want to project another image. For the sake of peace and the future of our children and grandchildren, please, let us be civil as leaders.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, there is hunger in Luena. The little relief maize that was sent there was not distributed fairly. It was only given to Patriotic Front (PF) members and sympathisers.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, if there is not enough relief food to send to Luena, why has the Government preferred to export maize to feed people outside the country before it takes care of its own people? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the Government has declared that no Zambian will die of hunger for as long as the PF Government is in existence. 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, I will ask my office, under the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), to compile a list of recipients of the first tranche of maize allocated to Luena Constituency. If the hon. Member would like to have this list, it can be availed to her so that she can show us how many of those people were members of the PF, Alliance for Democracy and Development or non-partisan. When distributing relief food, we do it in a non-partisan manner. We look at the vulnerability of the family, individuals and the community. This is what happens in the distribution exercises.

Mr Speaker, on Monday, more maize will be sent to Luena as well as all the other districts where there was a maize deficit and where most of our people were affected by the poor rainfall which negatively affected their harvest.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, in the next two days, this nation will be on its knees in prayer and fasting. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether her Government is willing to forgive our brothers and sisters in Bulozi …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: … who are languishing in jail as a result of their political beliefs with regard to the Barotseland Agreement question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the pardoning of offenders is a prerogative of the President.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You expect her to answer, but are interrupting her.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: The day of prayer, reconciliation, forgiveness and pardoning of each other will give us an opportunity to reflect on all the issues that the country has raised.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
  
  Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, when these newly-created ministries will start working. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the ministries are already functioning. The newly-created Ministry of Development Planning is currently developing a format, which will address the reforms and strategic ways in which we are going to address the issues of development in the country ...

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning paused.

Hon. Opposition Members: Drink water!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: ... under the ambit of the Vision 2030 for Zambia. As you are all aware, Zambia’s Vision 2030 is a development plan for the country to address issues of development, continued growth, economic development, and our future prosperity so that all its citizens can benefit from this growth.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning emphasised the need for people to obtain their national registration cards (NRCs). Has she ensured that the Ministry of Finance properly funds the department responsible for issuing these cards so that the scarcity of cards can stop? As of now, the cards have run out. The response from the public has been very good, but the Government is letting the people down by not having enough cards. What is the Government doing to ensure that the scarcity of cards does not occur again?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, more funds are being released to the Ministry of Home Affairs, and the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), for the national registration card (NRC) issuance, to facilitate the voter registration exercise. This process is on-going and all these hurdles that we have experienced in the past may be resolved in future.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, my question is on the day of prayer declared by His Excellency the President. Bars have been banned from operating on that day. When you pray, you must faithfully believe that what you are praying for will be heard by God. Why did the Government impose the ban on the operation of bars on that day? 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, there is no imposition on the people of Zambia not to patronise bars on that day. It is just a request. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, people should observe this day as an important day. Those who like to patronise bars from 8 o’clock in the morning could, perhaps, join everyone and observe this very important day of meditation, forgiveness and reconciliation, as we thank our maker, the Almighty God.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I have got two questions. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah! You are wasting time!

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, what is the correct price of fertiliser this year? Today is 16th October, and anytime from now, we are going to receive rains. However, we are not sure about the correct price of fertiliser. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I urge the hon. Member to write a question to the Ministry of Agriculture. As a country, we chose to liberalise our economy and, as such, shopkeepers and commodity sellers out there are determining their own price. The Government has no power whatsoever, to regulate those prices. That is why we have already introduced subsidies through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), through which farmers are given subsidised inputs, including fertiliser. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, now that the Government has failed to honour the Barotseland Agreement, what message of reconciliation does it have for the people of Barotseland? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should know that this Government has not failed to resolve the Barotseland Agreement issue. The Government will engage in dialogue with the concerned parties, such as the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE), as well as all the other establishments in the province. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

NATIONAL DECENTRALISATION POLICY

119. Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe) asked Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: 

(a)    what the progress on the implementation of the National Decentralisation Policy was;

(b)    which Government Ministry was leading the implementation process;

(c)    if  implementation had not commenced, what had caused the delay;

(d)    whether chiefs would have any role to play in the implementation process and, if so, what the role was; and

(e)    whether the chiefs would be given grants for purposes of carrying out the role at (d).

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Bwalya): Mr Speaker, significant progress has been made in the implementation of the National Decentralisation Policy. The devolution process is being implemented in a phased manner, covering the period 2015-2017.  Phase 1 commenced in January, 2015, covering the following five ministries and two institutions:

(a)    disaster and risk reduction management under the Office of the Vice-President;

(b)    extension services, under the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock;

(c)    primary and early education, as well as adult literacy, under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education;

(d)    primary health care, social welfare and community development, under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health;

(e)    local tourism and cultural matters, under the Ministry of Tourism and Art;

(f)    urban and regional planning, under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing; and 

(g)    community management of the Human Immunodeficiency Virus and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS), and Tuberculosis (TB) Programme, under the National Human Immunodeficiency Virus, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, Tuberculosis, and Sexually Transmitted Infections  (HIV/AIDS/TB/STI) Council.

Mr Speaker, phase 2 will commence in January, 2016, covering the functions in the following four ministries:

(i)    infrastructure development and management under the Ministry of Works and Supply;

(ii)    land allocation and utilisation, together with the management and consultation of natural resources under the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection;

(iii)    cultural affairs under the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs; and

(iv)    business development services, operationalisation of standards and quality assurances, protection and welfare under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. 

Mr Speaker, in phase 3, functions in four ministries will be devolved in 2017 as follows: 

(i)    sports development, community sport and youth development under the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development;

(ii)    child development under the Ministry of Gender and Child Development;

(iii)    water resources management under the Ministry of Energy and Water Development; and

(iv)    community police and community prisons under the Ministry of Home Affairs. 

Mr Speaker, it is envisioned that the above functions will be devolved to all councils and that all the functions earmarked for devolution would be devolved accordingly. This process will be completed in 2017. 

Mr Speaker, the lead institution in the implementation process of the decentralisation process is the Cabinet Office, through the Decentralisation Secretariat. The implementation process of the Decentralisation Policy has already commenced, as indicated in (a) above. In the decentralisation implementation process, the chiefs will continue with their responsibility of sensitising their subjects on matters of development. There is no legal provision, at the moment, for grants for chiefs to perform their role as community leaders. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister belabour the fact that various ministries are implementing the Decentralisation Policy, but I did not get him clearly on the lead institution with regards to the implementation of this policy. Would it not be prudent to have the Office of the Vice-President as the lead institution in the implementation of Decentralisation Policy so that all Permanent Secretaries and the hon. Ministers in line ministries get orders from a central office, as opposed to one line ministry, which would make it a super ministry, with regards to the implementation this important policy? 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I said that the lead institution in the implementation process of the Decentralisation Policy is the Cabinet Office. This is the best placed institution for implementation because it issues instructions to various ministries. This is the more reason the decentralisation process and its implementation was removed from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and placed at Cabinet Office. 

Mr Speaker, in the event that there is need for us to review the process, which will definitely be necessary because of evaluations, we will sit down and look at the challenges that may arise in the process of implementing this policy. We will include suggestions that will arise and may be make the Office of the Vice-President the lead institution. Currently, however, Cabinet Office is a best institution to lead the process because all instructions to various ministries emanate from there. 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, decentralisation is good, especially if implemented after a careful study of the lessons from countries that have implemented it already.  

Sir, here in Zambia, we tried to give powers to councils, which are just monuments because they still answer to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Councils cannot do anything without the approval of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Today, we have heard that, actually, other ministries will be involved in the councils’ functions. What measures have the Government put in place to ensure that there will be protocol as a result of what you intend to do? Has the Government adequately budgeted for the implementation of the Decentralisation Process in the 2016 Budget? 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, a careful study was undertaken. I do recall that there were quite a number of technocrats involved in order for us to come up with the policy on decentralisation. There was a visit to Namibia and Uganda, two countries which have implemented this particular policy. We did a lot to ensure that we learn the best practices from other countries. 

Mr Speaker, a lot has been done and continues to be done in terms of capacity building in various councils. It is true that some of the councils do not have the human resource required to ensure that we implement this policy effectively. This is the more reason this particular policy is being implemented in a phased manner. We are yet to equip the various councils. The Local Government Service Commission is working around the clock to ensure that it brings in quality as well as qualified human resource in the local authorities in order to implement this beautiful policy of decentralisation so that power and authority is devolved to the lower levels of the country. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the Decentralisation Policy was one of the flagship programmes of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, especially at the dawn of its coming into power in 2011. It is, therefore, ironic to learn that the implementation process will be completed somewhere around 2017, which is slightly over six years. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why it has taken so long to implement the process and what could have led to these challenges. 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, it has taken slightly longer, but we are within the programme. Among the challenges is the issue that I have already alluded to which is to ensure that we put the required skilled human resource within the local authorities so that the implementation could run smoothly. 

Mr Speaker, the lack of finances is also another challenge which we have faced. We needed to plan for this process and budget for it adequately so that we could implement it properly. Of course, there were teething issues as regards the implementation. You may recall that it was under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, but eventually moved to Cabinet Office. This transition also brought about delays. So, it is our hope that by the end of 2017, most of the functions and indeed authority would have devolved to the lower levels of the local authorities.

I thank you, Sir. 

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, there is no doubt that decentralisation is important for good governance. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning what the Government will do when all the functions, including the fiscal ones, have been devolved to the councils. What role will the District Commissioner’s (DC) office play, taking into account the services that matter to the people and the need to answer to the people that elect the leaders? 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, of course, there is need for us to be able to amend the legal provisions in the Local Government Act in order to make the DC’s office as an ex-official in the council. 

Mr Speaker, the DC’s office is also more like the Government Inspector’s office.  It also ensures that the programmes are being implemented as required and targeted. The DC’s office will also be responsible for oversight functions. At the same time, it will be the Government inspector so that other flaws that may be in system may be bought out. The DCs will also be able to see which projects are not being implemented as planned. What is most important is to have a legal reform that will allow the DCs to be part and parcel of the local authority governance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, after all the seminars, consultancies and policy statements that have been done in terms of decentralisation, the decentralisation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is the only real one. This is where funds are allocated at constituency level and the councils are able to plan for those funds. Will the Office of the Vice-President not support the idea of increasing the CDF as one practical step towards empowering councils?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the increase of CDF is an issue that must be tabled before the Ministry of Finance. Yes, it is a good fund which performs good tasks. It is one of those funds that have actually contributed to the development within the local authorities. It will not be correct for me to state that we can increase it. It is a matter that should be discussed between the Ministries of Finance and Local Government and Housing.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF GONDOLE PRIMARY SCHOOL

120. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of General Education:

(a)    when the construction of Gondole Primary School in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

(b)    what had caused the delay in commencing the works;

(c)    what the total cost of the project was; and 

(d)    who the contractor was.

The Minister of General Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, it is erroneous to ask when the construction of Gondole Primary School in Chasefu Constituency will commence because the construction of the said primary school started in 2010 when the school was established.

Mr Speaker, Gondole Primary School was established through the initiative of the community in that area. We thank the community for that initiative. This community school was using pole and mud structures until 2010, when the ministry funded the construction of a 1 x 3 classroom block at a cost of K180,000. The project was successfully completed.

Sir, in 2011, another 1 x 3 classroom block was planned for together with two ventilated improved pit (VIP) latrines at a cost of K261,000. Funds for the construction of a staff house and a VIP single toilet have not been released due to budgetary constraints. The ministry will construct additional facilities when funds are made available as there are other competing needs in this sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister be able to probably indicate when the other funds will be released for the completion of the project.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am unable to confirm when the funds will be available, but I wish to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we will work with the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) to consider allocating funds to this school for the ministry’s consideration in its development plans.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, taking advantage of this question, I would like to find out whether or not …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order on my right.

Hon. Mweetwa, please, continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister has stated that the stalled projects will be completed when the funds are made available. Does this Government have a programme to undertake an inventory of projects in this regard, schools, that require final touches? An example is what you know of Batoka High School, which was completed by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), but has not been commissioned up to now. This Government is failing even just to connect power so that the school can be functional. What is the hon. Minister who is my former lecturer’s comment? 

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member gave an example of one school and I would also want the hon. Minister to take into consideration Umi and Kapekesa schools as he responds. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I do not feel comfortable because the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central has been joined by the Speaker. Let me state that we are dealing with a very unique school, which started as a community school. The Government found it proper to help the community develop that project by planting a 1 x 3 classroom block at a school. Talking about community schools, yes, there is an inventory which the ministry conducts. We will be working on schools such as Gondole Primary School when funds are available. We will try to find resources to rehabilitate or build suitable structures in the community schools.

Mr Speaker, there are two other institutions in Nalolo Constituency that were abandoned by a Zambian contractor called Gabman Limited. The issue is still in court and we are yet to resolve it. Therefore, I would not comment on it much. With regards to Umi School, let me state that when I went for a by-election which was in that area, I was in a very difficult situation. When the local people heard that I was in that area, they petitioned for help. I tried to help, but it was not sufficient. However, I only hope that the court will resolve this issue as quickly as possible so that we move on.

I thank you, Sir.

GOVERNMENT DEBT OWED TO SOUTHERN WATER AND SEWERAGE COMPANY

121. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how much money the Government owed the Southern Water and Sewerage Company as of 30th June, 2015;  and

(b)    when the debt would be liquidated.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the Government, through line departments and spending agencies, owes the Southern Water and Sewerage Company (SWSC) a sum of K1,240,434 as of 30th June, 2015, for outstanding water and sewerage bills.

Sir, the Ministry of Finance has committed to pay the outstanding bills by the first quarter of 2016 as per minute number MF/101/13/29 dated 29th September, 2015, through the release of funds to various Government and spending agencies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I have never seen Hon. Mabumba since we resumed. Where is he?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question?

Mr Ntundu: I miss him, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: He is one of the few hon. Deputy Ministers …

Mr Deputy Speaker: No!

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, the services provided by the Southern Province Water and Sewerage Company (SWSC) in Gwembe are very poor. Their argument is that they are not able to collect money from Government institutions in order to provide better services. Does the Government have any deliberate programme to sink boreholes in Gwembe since it is not able to pay the debt it owes the SWSC? The people of Gwembe draw water from the borehole at the house of the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe.

Hon. MMD Members: Who is he?

Mr Ntundu: I do not know who the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe is? Who is he?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Ntundu, you are confusing people. They will think you are not the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe. There is no harm in saying that the people of Gwembe are drawing water from your borehole.

You may continue.

Mr Ntundu: Thank you for that comment.

I am the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: I have been a Member of Parliament for fifteen years and whether you like it or not, I will continue next year. I have already asked my question.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, the Government has a programme to sink boreholes countrywide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the debt the Government owes the Southern Water and Sewerage Company is actually hampering the smooth operations of that company in the province. The hon. Minister stated that the Ministry of Finance has committed to pay the outstanding bills. Is the hon. Minister able to assure this House that they will continue paying bills as they come so that they do not lead to another debt?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, indeed, the debt is regrettable and as the hon. Deputy Minister stated, there is a written undertaking by the Ministry of Finance that this debt will be liquidated by the first quarter of 2016. The ministry, in collaboration with co-operating partners, has embarked on a number of projects in Livingstone, Choma and other districts with regards to water supply. Since Choma is the new provincial headquarters, we anticipate that the consumption of water there will certainly go up. I want to assure the hon. Member that the ministry is doing everything possible to ensure that the people of the Southern Province continue to receive quality water supply.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, while the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been failing to meet its obligation, the ordinary people have been paying for the water they receive from the SWSC. The hon. Minister made a very casual and pedestrian statement that the Ministry of Finance has committed to pay the outstanding bills. Why should we believe him when he has made several of such statements on the Floor of this House without anything tangible happening? For instance, not too long ago, we were assured that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) would be given at once to all the constituencies. We are in 2015, without most constituencies receiving their 2014 CDF. A statement was made by the hon. Minister one week ago about the CDF. Why should we believe what the hon. Minister is saying when they always backtrack on their promises and allege that they had budgetary constraints? Why should we believe him especially that the people who are suffering are able to meet their obligation?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, qualify your answer on why you should be believed.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, it is so saddening to hear the level of hypocrisy that we sometimes express as leaders. My colleague is being hypocritical. He represents Choma Central Constituency which is the new provincial headquarters for the Southern Province. If you went to Choma today, you would not need spectacles to see what this hard working Government is doing in his constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: I do not know what else the Government can do in Choma for Hon. Mweetwa to acknowledge that the Government is developing the nation. We do not make pedestrian statements. We state facts as they are. Constraints could be there, but at the end of the day, the Government is committed to serving its people. In his heart, the hon. Member knows that this Government is going to deliver on its promises to the people of his constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order. When we stand here to speak or ask questions, we do it genuinely and within the precincts of our mandate to represent our people. The question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency is very succinct. He was asking about the Southern Water and Sewerage Company and the province, and not Choma Central Parliamentary Constituency. Is the hon. Minister in order to label me hypocritical when I am merely stating facts which are indelible and indisputable? I am asking for and on behalf of the people, who are the victims of the delinquency of this Government. Is he in order to transplant the ineptness of that Government and label me hypocritical when he knows that, when we, (pointing at hon. UPND Members) stand to ask questions, we mean well for the people of this country? Is he in order to say that I am being hypocritical ahead of the day for national prayers?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: In the first place, hon. Member for Choma Central Parliamentary Constituency, your point of order is unsustainable.

Hon. UPND Member: How?

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is unsustainable because what you are raising is not a point of order. You are trying to use the point of order to disagree with what the hon. Minister said. You want to correct the hon. Minister by asking if he is in order to label you hypocritical and then you also talk about the ineptness of that Government. So, both of you are now trying to debate and call each other names. So, for that reason, your point of order is not sustained. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that as a result of shifting the provincial headquarters from Livingstone to Choma without a proper plan and providing the necessary infrastructure, there are severe challenges which have been created in Choma? One of the challenges includes the shortage of water. These water shortages are due to the unplanned developments which the Government allowed. Unfortunately, the Government has not done anything to avert the shortages of water in Choma.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am certainly aware of the water challenges that are in Choma. However, as I am speaking, a consultant has been engaged to ensure that the water supply systems for Choma are redesigned. Funds for that have already been set aside. So, the Government is aware of this and is doing what needs to be done to ensure that the provincial headquarters are functional and actualised as intended. The people of the Southern Province have really appreciated the shift of the provincial headquarters from Livingstone to Choma. Before the shift, the provincial headquarters were right at the bottom of the province and now it has moved to the central part of the province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this important point of order. I sincerely apologise to my brother, who was about to raise a question. Recently, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, through its spokesperson, issued a statement to the effect that changing Government, even legitimately, scares away investors and can cause problems to the economy.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, by saying that, the PF was indirectly confessing that the economic problems that we are having now are as a result of the change of Government that we had in 2011 from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) to the PF. Is that Government, through its spokesperson, in order to scare the people of Zambia from exercising their constitutional right to vote for a Government of their choice and correct the mistake that was made in 2011? Is it in order to scare the people of Zambia and render the exercise of voting futile when, actually, it is constitutional for us to choose a Government of our own choice?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: How recent was that statement made?

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, two days ago.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Aha! You see, I got you.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: So, you are bringing your point of order today. According to our rules, that point of order is not contemporaneous. It is not relevant to the, ...

Hon. UPND Members: He heard it today!

Mr Deputy Speaker: No. I am not asking you to debate with me. I am just telling you that because it does not fall under any one of the conditions which points of order should be made, which are relevance, procedure and maintenance of order and decorum.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, in responding to the supplementary question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency as regards to whether the Government had plans or programmes to sink boreholes because of its failure to fund the Southern Water and Sewerage Company based on the debt owed to the water utility company by Government institutions, the hon. Deputy Minister said the Government had that programme country-wide. I would like to find out whether the Government has looked at what would be more costly between sinking boreholes and paying the water utility companies the money owed to them. Is it prudent for the Government to start sinking boreholes as opposed to paying the water utility company?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I am surprised that he does not seem to have followed the responses as they were given. At no time did we say that the Government has a deliberate programme to sink boreholes as a result of the debt owed to the water utility company. Those are two different programmes. What we are saying is that there is a commitment or undertaking to allocate money to various departments to pay their debts. We have a schedule showing who is owed how much and, as I have stated, these bills will be liquidated in the first quarter of next year. However, that does not connect SWASCO to the programme of drilling boreholes. The programme of drilling boreholes by the ministry is totally different and has nothing to do with the work of the water utility company. So, my hon. Colleague should have followed when that response was being made.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF MAPUNGU/KALABO ROAD

123. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    why road construction works on the Mapungu/Kalabo Road had stalled;

(b)    what the time-frame for completion of the project was; and

(c)    what the cost of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, this road is approximately 20 km and works were split into two phases. Phase I involved the installation of drainage structures and the works commenced in the fourth quarter of 2013 through which nine culverts were installed. Phase II involved the gravelling of the entire 20 km of the road. The works stalled due to lack of funds to complete the project. These works were meant to take six months and the cost of the project was K6.8 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, complications have now arisen. The works have stalled and the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) has been handed over to the Zambia National Service (ZNS). As the people of Kalabo, we do not have much hope. With such complications coupled with the non-availability of funds in mind, what assurance can the hon. Minister give us that Phase II of this project will be implemented? 

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is true that the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is now under the Ministry of Defence. I think the best that we are prepared to do, as the Ministry of Works and Supply, is to liaise with the Ministry of Defence so that it can undertake the remaining works, possibly in 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Sir, Phase I of the project started in the fourth quarter of 2013, while Phase II started in 2014, but stalled the same year due to the lack of funds. Since then, resources to continue the project have not been found. What assurance can the hon. Minister give us that now there will be money in 2016 to undertake this project? From 2013 to-date …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think you have finished asking your question.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I may not be able to give the assurance, but can say that the Government is committed to completing the works under Phase II. We will continue sourcing for the required funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in answering part (c) of the question, the hon. Minister indicated that the total cost of the project was about K6.8 million. In the meantime, Phase I has been done. What was the actual cost for Phase I? I want Hon. Chinga Miyutu to be satisfied.

Laughter 

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I know Hon. Miyutu will only be satisfied when Phase II is done. Phase I, which was the installation of drainage structures, cost K800,000.

I thank you, Sir.

__________ 

MOTION

BUDGET 2016

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for according this opportunity to debate the Budget Speech which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance to this House on 9th October, 2015.

Mr Speaker, as a preface to my debate, I would like to thank your office, very sincerely, for liberating me by removing me from the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights Gender Matters and Child Affairs so as to enable me debate the Constitution of Zambia Bill and Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill with a very free mind. I would have been very constrained if I was still a member of this Committee because the Bills have been referred to this particular Committee.

Ms Namugala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order. I apologise to Hon. Mwiimbu for interrupting his debate. I rise on a point of order which, in my view, is going to help this House move forward in a fair manner and allow the hon. Members of Parliament to freely debate, whether they have served in previous Governments or not.

Mr Speaker, on 8th October, 2015, I, exercising my right as an hon. Member of Parliament, posed a question to the hon. Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. The question was as follows:

“Mr Speaker, I was listening attentively to the hon. Deputy Minister’s response to part (b) of the question, which was on the measures the Government had taken to stop party cadres, in this case, Patriotic Front (PF) cadres, from allocating land illegally. In his response, he indicated that there is an inter-ministerial taskforce and that the Government will not tolerate illegal land allocation by cadres, which has been stated in the past. 

However, what is on the ground is very different from what the hon. Minister wants us to believe. I can give the example of businesses in Lusaka whose wall fences have been demolished by PF cadres who have built shops where the fences used to be. Can the hon. Minister now admit that the Government, and in particular the Lusaka City Council, has totally lost control to PF cadres in land allocation matters in Lusaka District.”

Mr Speaker, in his response, on behalf of the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Hon. Kambwili stated that:

 “Mr Speaker, to begin with I did not expect that question to be asked by an hon. Member who was in the previous Government. This issue is not about the PF cadres because those who are grabbing land from our people, are actually not cadres, but the same people who did it in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. I think that by and large, the PF has gone a step further in addressing this issue. Remember what happened when some people purporting to be PF cadres went and invaded land belonging to Gaulani. Those people are appearing in court now. This could not happen in the MMD administration. So, is this the way we will conduct our politics that when you get out of Government you start thinking of the problem that you caused? It is not fair. The perpetrators are not PF cadres, but people who as just masquerading as such. We are doing everything possible to clean what Hon. Namugala failed to clean.”

Mr Speaker, this is the subject of my point of order. I am aware that the Hon. Mr Speaker made a ruling on the point of order that Hon. Mwiimbu raised concerning this particular matter.

Mr Speaker, it is in order for us, as a House, to allow responses such as the one by Hon. Kambwili stating that Hon. Namugala, for instance, failed to clean up the mess, when, in fact, I was not the head of the Government. I was just part of the Government. As we all know, there is no one particular person that can be blamed for …

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think I allowed you enough room to make your introductory remarks to the point of order. I think that you have made your background points clearly. So, just come to the main point of order.

You may continue, please.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, my point of order is, are we in order, as a House, to allow individuals’ names to be used in such a negative manner as the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting did, in this case, when he said that they are doing everything possible to clean what Hon. Namugala failed to clean? That was disparaging my name. If what Hon. Kambwili did was not in order, can my name be removed from the official records because I did not cause the mess. In any case, we all know that this mess has been caused by the PF Government.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am not addressing myself to the substance of your point of order. I am addressing myself to whether your point of order is in order. 

You see, we go by the rules which you yourselves have given us, the Presiding Officers. I constantly repeat what I am about to say. Points of order must be made contemporaneously. That is, they must be relevant to the issue under discussion. Hon. Namugala, your point of order, important as it is, has failed to meet that criterion. A point of order must be on procedure. If it was raised at that time the issue was being discussed, may be it would have qualified to be raised. 

Hon. Members, a point of order should be raised on issues regarding the maintenance of order and decorum. Unfortunately, the point of order which has been raised by Hon. Namugala does not fall in any one of those categories. Therefore, I cannot make a ruling on it. 

Additionally, hon. Members, Hon. Namugala pointed out that the Hon. Mr Speaker made a ruling connected to the issue. If it is correct that the Hon. Mr Speaker had made a ruling that time, I do not think I should make another ruling on that point of order. If I recall, the ruling at that time was that the issue of people having failed to do something when they were in the Government does not hold because it is your turn now to resolve the problem. I think, in general, that is what I understood from the ruling. So, in that context the point of order cannot be sustained.

May the hon. Member for Monze Central, continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as I debate the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, I will try to marry it with the speech of the President delivered to this House on 18th September, 2015. In my discussion, I would like to make various responses to both speeches. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to comment on the statement which was made by the President pertaining to the former President’s entitlements taking into account the very specific statement to the effect that the construction of former President’s houses was not a sustainable venture. I agree that it is not sustainable. I also wish to state that we are on record as the United Party for National Development (UPND) of having told the nation that the practice was not sustainable. 

Mr Speaker, I also take into account that the President in his discourse to this House and his comments outside his Speech, indeed, agrees with the view that he does not require this nation to build him a house after he leaves office. I take note of that. I want to state and also clear the position that the current President of the Republic of Zambia was elected on 20th January, 2015. His term of office ends next year. This means that he would have served for at least one and half years. According to the Act which regulates the entitlements of former Presidents, the current President does not qualify for any house or any pension under that Act.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: So, he cannot claim that he does not need a house to be constructed for him. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: The truth is that he does not qualify for such an entitlement.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, you are aware that when the late President Mwanawasa died, an amendment was brought to this House to ensure that we amended the law to allow that any President who has served for at least three years qualified for this entitlement. We have to amend the law to ensure that those who have served only one year and half years qualify for such an entitlement. That is the position of the law. So, the current President does not qualify for such an entitlement.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the second issue which I would like to debate relates to the comment that was made by Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning on the Floor of this House this morning when she appealed to members of the public and leaders not to make inflammatory statements that will scare away investors and affect the economy of this country.

Mr Speaker, I take note that the hon. Member for Siavonga raised a point of order on the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting on a statement that he issued and you made a ruling. It is such statements that scare away investors and do not inspire confidence in the economy. It is such statements which Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning should have condemned and should not be allowed to come from the leaders of this country.

Mr Speaker, …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in this House, we are called upon to make factual statements which we can substantiate and, thereby, avoid misleading the nation with impunity. 

Sir, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead the House by referring to a statement which the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga alleged I made? Let me quote the statement I made on air at a radio station. I stated that:

“The change of Governments after every five years makes countries degenerate into what is known as political instability. There is no investor who would want to invest in a country where there is political instability.”

Sir, is the hon. Member in order to mislead the nation that I said that the change of Government in general would result into investors shunning the country and not state the facts as I had put them? Is he in order to continue to mislead the nation with impunity? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: This is one of those points of orders which are clearly indicative of the desire by the hon. Minister to disagree or correct, what he thinks was not what he said and so on. You make it very difficult for Presiding Officers to rule on certain matters. I did not hear what the hon. Minister said on the radio. Do not ask me why I did not. Unlike me, maybe, you had the opportunity to listen to the programme. This is why we advise that during times like these, everyone should take note of what he or she is saying on the Floor as he or she debates, particularly, issues to do with the people on the right. If you want to counter what they say, my job is to give you an opportunity to do that. This will be in order. However, to ask me to rule on something like this will be making my job difficult. So, at an appropriate time, if you do not agree with what Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning said, you will be given an opportunity to counter the issue. We still have time to debate.

The hon. Member for Monze Central may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to sincerely thank Hon. Kambwili for his candidness on the statement which he made on radio. It is such statements which erode investor confidence. Investors are shunning this country because of statements such as the one Hon. Kambwili made on radio.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I am happy that he has today told us what he said.

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: Ndijisi.

Hon. Member: Meaning?

Mr Mwiimbu: He must first interpret what he said.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Continue.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, he cannot continue.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let us not turn the debate into a personal battle.

Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: I have something to say before the hon. Member for Monze Central continues. There was an order made by Mr Speaker that, during this segment, there would be no points of order. I will follow that order.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about the issue of governance, vis a vis statements made by leaders which create division in the nation and scare away investors. I was saying that Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, this morning on the Floor of this House made a statement pertaining to the day of prayer in which she cast aspersions on those who may not be in a position to attend the prayer session in the show grounds. She stated that she did not know which God those who would not attend the prayer session pray to. 

Mr Speaker, it is such statements that are divisive. As leaders, we need to make statements that unify and exude confidence in the eyes of those who appear not to agree with us.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say that there are some of us who do not want a day of prayer to be declared in order for us to pray. I pray everyday, and go to church every Sunday. Therefore, I do not need a declaration for me to go to church to pray. It is not good to condemn other people who have their own different views about this day of prayer. One thing which we all know is that not everyone will go to the Show Grounds to pray. Other people will go to their usual churches on Sunday because it is normal for them to pray on that day. That is the order of their faith. They have to pray. So, I do not think that it is correct to start casting aspersions on people who will not be at the Show Grounds on that day.

Mr Speaker, I have in my hands, a programme for the National Day of Prayer. According to this programme, we are going to pray for all the failures we have encountered as a nation. We are going to pray so that we explore our minerals properly.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, we are going to pray so that the distribution of relief food will be done properly. We shall pray for the Constitution amendments to be passed. These are the issues we will be praying for at the Show Grounds. 

Mr Speaker, this programme does not indicate that people who have differed with each other will be given an opportunity to repent their sins publicly, reconcile and resolve matters. All what is in this programme are prayers to ask God to help us overcome the failures we have occasioned in this country. This is what is in the document.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I have not solicited for support from the right. I am listening attentively because I know that sooner than later, he will come to the Budget. So, the hon. Member may continue. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am raising these issues because they are governance issues. I indicated at the time when I started debating that I would marry the President’s Speech with the statement by the hon. Minister of Finance. Governance is key to our goal to achieve economic emancipation. Governance is also key in determining how we relate to each other. That is why I have raised the issues which I am talking about. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are at liberty to raise them, but also bear in mind that you have belaboured the issue of prayers. I hope you can now go on to other issues which you have.  You may carry on. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I pray that those on your right will listen to what I am saying. 

Mr Speaker, we are all aware that the economy of Zambia is undergoing severe strain. We are all aware that last year, we passed a Budget, which was K46.7 billion. When you converted that into United States (US) Dollar terms, it was US$7.4 billion at the time. This year, we have come up with a Budget of K53.1 billion. When you convert that to US Dollars at the current rate, it is US$4.6 billion. What this means, in essence, is that the size of our Budget next year has reduced substantially from this year’s Budget.  As a result, what we intend to achieve next year will not be achieved because we have less money to spend compared to this year. The kwacha is falling almost everyday. I have no doubt in my mind that as we approach the end of the year, 1 US$ will be equivalent to K15, and because Zambia is an import-oriented country, we will fail to meet our obligations as a nation. Even servicing the international loans we are getting now, and those we have obtained in the past, will be difficult because we have to find more kwacha to ensure that we meet the obligations. 

Mr Speaker, when the PF took over the Government, our international debt was about US$1.1 billion. However, this year, the debt is about US$4.3 billion, according to the statement by the hon. Minister of Finance.  Therefore, this entails that we have to find enough kwacha to meet our international obligations, and this Government has no money. We do not have money. Therefore, it will be very difficult for the country to forge ahead. In his own statement, the hon. Minister of Finance was very candid.  I am happy to note that the hon. Minister of Finance told the nation that we are undergoing severe financial constraints. He has decided to be frank with us because he knows that there is a problem. That problem can only be resolved by our colleagues on your right, Mr Speaker. They can ensure that there is financial prudence in the manner we manage our affairs. I also note that the hon. Minister of Finance has advised the Government publicly to reduce lavish expenditure such as international travel. However, I doubt whether our colleagues on your right believe what he said. There has not been any reduction whatsoever in their expenditure. They have continued doing things as if they have not been advised against them. It is not correct for them to keep doing that because we do not have money. 

Mr Speaker, we have to realise that as a result of the free fall of the kwacha, a lot of workers are being laid off because companies cannot sustain their operations. Even trading companies are laying off workers. We are being told that a number of supermarket chain stores in Zambia will be closing soon. This will entail people losing jobs. We expected a Marshall Plan from the Government to ensure that those companies that are operating in Zambia are protected. We should have put money aside to bail out companies that are employing our people, such as the mines, so that workers do not lose their jobs. Today, there is a report in the newspapers that more than 200 workers have been laid off from a steel plant in Kafue. That is just a tip of the iceberg. 

Mr Speaker, when you go to most of the shops at Arcades Mall and Manda Hill Mall, you will find that they are not displaying price tags anymore for the goods they are selling because prices are changing every hour, because of the severe economic situation we are in.  The hon. Minister of Finance must take measures to protect the industries. 

Mr Speaker, I want to take note that the Government has decided to increase salaries for workers. As much as this is a good gesture, it will not assist in any way. The K5,000 that a worker used get at the time that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, was equivalent to US$1,000. A K5,000 that a worker gets now, at the rate of K12 to a dollar, is equivalent to US$480. This entails that the purchasing power of the worker has been reduced drastically. The salary increment that has been given is only cosmetic. It, therefore, follows that the suffering of Zambians is worsening. The poverty levels will worsen in this country. Our duty, as the Government, is to ensure that we protect the workers, industries and everyone who is in this country. We have, however, failed to address these issues under this Budget. 

Mr Speaker, I wish I had more time. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance, as he comes to wind up, to tell us the measures he is putting in place to protect the industries. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to add the voice of the people of Mumbwa to the Address by the hon. Minister of Finance, presented on 9th October, 2015.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state, from the outset that I have seen a trend, in this House, of intolerance to different views and yet we all subscribe to democracy, which is basically an arena where there is competition and co-operation. I note that in the zeal for the Ruling Party to have as much power as possible, the issue of competition is taken to heights where it actually inadvertently or advertently stifles democracy. 

Mr Speaker, this is my thirteenth or fourteenth year to listen to a Budget Speech. I note that when the hon. Minister of Finance comes to the House, he has this grand plan to raise revenue as well as indicate, to the House, how he wants to have that revenue expended. 

Mr Speaker, as Opposition Members of Parliament, we make observations and debate. The hon. Minister’s Speech is referred to your Committee, which comes to the House and presents a report. I have noticed, over the years, that hon. Ministers of Finance sit there and listen very attentively. At the end of the day, everything that the hon. Minister of Finance presents, to the House, has to be approved. We spend three months, once he has brought his Appropriation Bill, debating it. 

Sir, when we debate with different viewpoints, it appears, many times, that we are seen or deemed to be enemies. I would like to believe, however, that debates are about the contestation of ideas. I strongly believe that since we all believe in democracy, it is important to note that political parties are key pillars to good governance, rule of law and the protection of human rights. It is, therefore, clear, if we believe in this, that only insecure democracies will stifle competition from other political parties. There is no doubt, therefore, that opposition political parties do increasingly shape the political policy or agenda of the Ruling Party, including that of Budget formulation, execution and audit. 

Mr Speaker, opposition political parties conduct civic education, like has been seen recently, to urge our electorates to go and get national registration cards (NRCs) and register as voters. In collaboration with the media and civil society organisations, political parties fight corruption and this is how it should be. This, however, is not to say that opposition political parties do not have challenges such as the lack of internal democracy. They are weakened in terms of lack of resources for the mobilisation of their people. 

Mr Speaker, I note that the hon. Minister’s theme for this Budget is: “Fiscal Consolidation to Safeguard Our Past Achievements and Secure a Prosperous Future for All.” This is a very apt theme because in his own admission, the hon. Minister has warned the nation that, in fact, next year will be difficult in terms of fiscal matters. I note that from the revenue side, the hon. Minister has proposed to raise K42.109 billion from domestic revenue. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has had difficulties, as has been witnessed in this House, to operationalise the 2015 Budget. Hopefully, he will come to this House to explain the performance of the 2015 Budget. I am saying this because there have been instances when ministries, provinces and spending agencies have not received grants. Two grants can be missed in a year and are never recovered. Perhaps, by the end of the year, certain ministries would have had three grants with a quarter of a year not funded.  

Mr Speaker, how will the hon. Minister of Finance raise K42.109 billion domestically from an economy that has been battered? I agree, in certain instances, some shocks are not of our own making. There has been a decline in the price of primary commodities such as copper, which is not selling that well. How possible will it be for the hon. Minister of Finance to raise K42.109 billion domestically? I am very doubtful. 

Sir, on the other hand, the plans on how to use the money are based on the assumption that he will be able to raise this amount of money. One sees the need for our workers to demand for an increase in pay. As has been stated, we have seen the decline in the strength of our kwacha. The buying power has been eroded by 40 per cent plus. The cost of living, whether someone is employed or not, is increasing. How, then, will it be possible to carry out different programmes when the hon. Minister will not be able to raise the money? 

Mr Speaker, with regard to education and skills development, I do not know why our desire is to construct many universities. Personally, I would like to see a situation whereby the movers of any economy are the technicians and technocrats. This is a cadre of men and women who can move any economy to greater heights. In my view, we need to place much more emphasis on trades training institutes, polytechnics and colleges.

Sir, in my constituency, one of my chiefs has been very generous. Over three years, he has given the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education then, 50.2 ha of land. We have had visitations starting from Director, Permanent Secretary and hon. Ministers for the past three years, but that land is still idle. The chief and I have been wondering as regards what our next course of action should be. Perhaps, we just get back our land and let the villagers settle there. There is no evidence that the Governmnet is committed to developing infrastructure on that land. 

Mr Speaker, when we are talking of entrepreneurship, innovation and self-employment, those from trades training institutes, polytechnics and colleges can add a lot to the development of our country in comparison to university graduates. I am not saying that we do not need universities. We need universities that are strategically planned for. We need universities that must purely concentrate on social sciences, art and culture and agricultural sciences. We need to balance the way we do things. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated K4.4 billion to the Ministry of Health. The major component of the functions of the Ministry of Health is the procurement of drugs. If we have a 40 per cent or 50 per cent decline in the buying power of the kwacha then we can only buy half that which he has estimated for. On the Floor of this very House, we did ask the rationale for linking the mother and child health functions to the ministry responsible for community development. I am so happy that for once, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has listened. That move was wasteful. Actually, when we look back, we may find that the health indicators that were gained may have even been reversed. We now have to reconstitute our structures in order to catch up on the time lost. 

Mr Speaker, we have been talking about the commitments that each Government made at Abuja. This time around, I note that an allocation to other social determinants of health is only 8.3 per cent of the National Budget and yet, we said that we would strive to get to 15 per cent. Clearly, unless something happens drastically, with the advent of non-communicable diseases, we shall be in for rude shock in the health sector. We have been talking about those three Cs which are not even there on the ground. You will find that we still have hospitals that have only four beds in a ward. To make matters worse, most of our institutions are smelly. We really need more investment in the health sector.

Sir, let me now comment on a very important issue that the hon. Minister talked about in his efforts to promote manufacturing. This is the reduction of excise duty on clear beer to 40 per cent from 60 per cent. I do not really know why we think like that. The negative effects of alcohol on our youths, industries and roads make the hon. Minister of Finance, who is actually my father- in- law, will lose even more money. By making this clear beer cheap, he is giving people a chance to make profit when that profit is actually swallowed by the negative health effects that alcohol has on our people. Most of the carnage on our roads is caused by alcohol. Over 80 per cent of the cases of people who are hospitalised at Chainama Hills Mental Hospital have do with alcohol-related issues. That is a cost to the Ministry of Health which is already underfunded. The hon. Minister said that we need to increase on our productivity. When people in a nation are easily able to access alcohol, productivity is impaired.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, even if I am not an economist, I know that the reduction in excise duty on alcohol will make it much more available. All this is happening while we keep claiming that we are a Christian nation and that on 18th October, 2015, we are going to have prayers countrywide. Are we going to pray as follows: “Heavenly Father, forgive us because we are turning into a drunkard nation?”

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, this is really worrying. Whether we like it or not, alcohol is bad. It is causing havoc in our families, communities and workplaces.  The hon. Minister of Finance has done a very good job by increasing the excise duty on cigarettes. People must be deterred from smoking because it is a health hazard. Even though I am not in a position to understand all the components in the Budget, what I do know is that the people of Mumbwa want to know what incentives are there for those who are in the manufacturing industry. 

Sir, let me now talk about the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). The hon. Minister of Finance was there when the idea of creating the IDC was born. At the time of Independence, we got political independence, but the economy was still in the hands of the minority whites. The founding fathers of this country thought of how they could empower the indigenous Zambians to participate in economic affairs. That is how the idea of creating the IDC was born. At the beginning, it worked fairly well until the one-party State syndrome came in, whereby the appointments of chief executive officers (CEOs) and directors was based on patronage. The history is very clear. 

Companies that made profits became heavy loss-making organisations because of one reason or another. Since we are a liberalised economy, why did we not make the environment conducive and make co-operatives? I believe that co-operatives can go a long way. Most of the parastatal companies that make profits do not declare dividends to the Government. So, even if the IDC is in charge of these companies, they will still not make profits for the Zambian people. They will just be made up of a cadre of people who will be looking after their own interests. I wonder whether our debates are worth it because, at the end of day, the hon. Minister of Finance will not reverse his decision. Three years from now is when the Government will discover that the parastatal companies are making losses and realise that it made a mistake.

Sir, twenty minutes is not enough. I wish you could give me another ten minutes for my debate. However, I thank you for the opportunity.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for granting me an opportunity to comment on the 2016 National Budget that was presented on the Floor of this House by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, as my colleagues have done, I would like to welcome those hon. Members that have joined us in this session, Hon. Kasonso and Hon. Mwamba. They are welcome.

Mr Speaker, my comments will be very brief. They will mainly centre on the theme of this year’s Budget which is: “Fiscal Consolidation to Safeguard our Past Achievements and a Prosperous Future for All.”

Sir, fiscal consolidation was already defined by my colleague, Hon. Simfukwe, on the day that he debated this Motion. However, as I understand it with the rudimentary economics that I know, it simply means fixing our Budget deficit and managing our debt accumulation. As we all know, a Budget deficit is created when the Government has been spending beyond its means. Therefore, this is what the hon. Minister is trying to address in this particular Budget. Since the Government has been spending more money than it makes, it will, therefore, have to take measures to enhance revenue mobilisation. Firstly, it will have to make more money by increasing its revenue base. Secondly, it will need to spend less in order to cut costs and plug the holes which are created by the Budget deficit. Thirdly, it will need to grow its economy. That way, more taxes will be paid thereby reducing the deficit. For the record, the hon. Minister proposes to plug the hole of the Budget deficit to 3.8 per cent from the current 6.9 per cent. This is extremely very ambitious. He will need the support of all of us. Fourthly, they can borrow money to plug the holes. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance also gave an accurate diagnosis regarding the challenges that our economy is facing ascribing them to events in the global economy, falling commodity prices, our exchange rate which has gone haywire and the challenges we have been facing in the energy sector.

Sir, in my opinion, the hon. Minister of Finance came up with this year’s Budget theme because the Executive has realised that we truly have challenges in our economy, especially the Budget deficit which we need to fix. In other words, they have made a correct diagnosis of what is happening. Have they applied the correct treatment?

Mr Speaker, it is a known fact that our economy was better off in 2011 than it is today. The question is: What past are we safeguarding? In short, if our economy is worse off today than it was four years ago, it means that in fact we have killed the economy. Therefore, we cannot safeguard what we have killed. It is on that basis that I challenge the theme which states that we need to safeguard our past achievements and also try to create a prosperous future for all. To me, the future is blink. The hon. Minister actually echoed what I am saying when he said that next year we will witness many challenges because the outlook for the world economy is not cheerful. In other words, this means that even the prosperous future we are thinking of is not attainable.

Sir, fiscal consolidation is not as simple as it may appear because the hon. Minister has to balance the spending cuts with the need to sustain programmes especially in the social sector so that a lot of our people are not pushed into extreme poverty. That is just a preamble to my debate.

Mr Speaker, my colleagues have indicated that much as this Budget of K53.14 billion appears to be an increase from the previous one, it is in fact not enough given the fact that our currency has lost value to the tune of somewhere around 46 per cent as alluded to by our experts. Actually, this money is 46 per cent less than what it should be. Also, considering the fact that we are an import oriented economy, we are obviously going to import less with this kind of money. Thus, we expect more hardships for our people. What prosperous future are we talking about? It is on that basis that I challenge the theme of the Budget.

Sir, if we are to plug the holes created by the Budget deficit, we should raise more money. In my view, the revenue measures that have been announced in the Budget are not enough. If anything, they are very paltry. In paragraph 150, the hon. Minister stated that the Government will raise K93.9 million from the tax reforms for cigarettes, wood products, edible oils and on motor vehicles older than five years from the date of manufacturing. Again, this is very insignificant given the size of our Budget deficit. In Paragraph 153, the hon. Minister states that we will raise K5.0 billion as a result of some of the changes that will take place particularly in the land transactions and the increase of fees and fines. Given the challenges that we are facing now, I do not think that this is sufficient. I would have loved the hon. Minister to do more.

Mr Speaker, I personally believe that he could have done more to try and raise money. As Members of Parliament, we have been crying about not having sufficient mechanisms to participate in the Budget formulation process. If I had an opportunity to participate in the Budget formulation process, I would make suggestions on how best the Budget can be formulated and implemented. Most times, some of our suggestions only come to the fore when the Budget is being presented here in Parliament. I think that the hon. Minister has missed some opportunities, especially in the areas that I will soon talk about.

Sir, firstly, as my colleague, Hon. Chituwo has said, I would have advised him to slow down on some of the infrastructure projects, particularly, those in the education sector, especially at university level. I think that we do not need so many of these universities that are being pronounced. That is not to say we do not need education, but what we need is significant investment at vocational level, as well as skills training. We do not need what is being proposed now. Dishing out universities, left, right and centre, like sweets, is not what we need. What we need are more artisans than we do some of these degree holders. So, I think that if there was an opportunity, we could save some money there by slowing down. I think we have done sufficiently well by adding on an extra number of universities. At this moment, we need to hold on and see how far we can go with what we have.

Mr Speaker, secondly, we could release some money from some of those companies that have been transferred to the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). We recently heard that only a few are doing very well. We can divest from some of these companies that we have put in the IDC, for example, like what we did when selling some of the shares in Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines – Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) although we have not been told how much has been raised and where this money is going. So, we can only assume that it is going to go to the Sovereign Wealth Fund. That is the right way to go. We should do it for other companies as well. You can hardly sell off some of them. I can guarantee you that they will give you more headaches. I do not think that there will be any significant change that will happen to their management in order to become profitable because of their corporate governance practices. The people who head them are challenged in terms of managing these co-operations.

Sir, I still have a lot to say, but time is racing very fast. Thus, I will rush through some items. The Government should have allocated more money to the empowerment funds. This country has been running most of these empowerment funds for a long time and the vehicle that we have been trying to use is the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). I am very sceptical with the way the Government has crafted the empowerment funds under the 2016 Budget.

Mr Speaker, K187.5 billion has been put under the CEEC, and that is alright. There is also another K150 million that has been allocated for the youths. Another K35 million has been allocated to the women. From what I heard recently from this Executive, the vehicle for the empowerment fund would be the CEEC. I, therefore, do not understand why we have somersaulted to try and separate them. This will need an explanation because it is a known fact that we have been giving these empowerment funds, particularly, under the youth and women, for many years until this day. We have not done a comprehensive revision or analysis to see whether we have really pulled most of our women and youth from poverty as a result of these empowerment funds. The reason is because perhaps we have not built sufficient capacity in both groups on how to utilise these funds. As a result, these groups of people continue to wallow in poverty. This is becoming a conduit through which we are just somehow wasting these monies, for lack of a better term. That is not to say that our people do not need empowerment, but I think, that the CEEC has the right people to administer these funds. I am really very skeptical whether the monies allocated to the youths and women will achieve the intended purpose. I am actually beginning to think that, perhaps, this could be a campaign ploy. So, that will need an explanation in due course.

Sir, to plug the holes, we also need to grow our economy and one of the flagship programmes that is being proposed is diversification. I also have an issue with the way we are going about our diversification. Way back, in the 1970s, Hon. Chikwanda stood on the Floor of this House and reminded this nation that until we diversified our economy and moved away from depending on copper, we would continue to cry about the lack of economic growth. I have the speech that he presented in 1975 and what he said is true to this day. The question is why are we failing to diversify? The reason is very simple. There are only three ingredients that lead to a successful diversification programme. The first one is that there must be sufficient political will. So, it would appear to me that all the previous Governments have lacked the political will needed to drive this process.

Mr Speaker, you only have to see how people cry foul when the mines try to do something. It means that our mindset is still tied to mining. If we really mean to diversify, we must begin to see that our economy is well spread out among the various sectors of our economy. The third reason we fail to diversify is, in my view, because of inconsistency in our policies. You cannot have a successful diversification programme, if in one vain you craft a policy, only to change it a year or two later or even six months down the line. This has continued happening even in this administration. Even in this Budget, we have seen some policy reversals. So, until we do away with this sort of thing, we will continue to come here, pay lip service and keep talking about diversification.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, if you look at some of the priority areas where we are trying to diversify to such as tourism, agriculture and manufacturing, you will see that all they are the right sectors. Take tourism for instance, that is one sector that would earn the country a lot of money. This administration seems to think that we can only do well in tourism by promoting visits to the Victoria Falls. I disagree with that approach. We need to look at what we are good at. What is our area of competitive advantage? I think it is our people, who should be our targets as we promote domestic tourism. We need to craft programmes that are tailored around the Zambians. Secondly, our wildlife is another area of competitive advantage which can do well for this country’s tourism. We had the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) standing alone. However, that is no longer the case now. These are the policy inconsistencies that I am talking about.

Sir, until we change the way we do things, we will continue paying lip service to these issues. The third reason diversification fails is because of allocating inadequate resources to these programmes. Our Budget runs under a three year cycle, which is called Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). That system works better for countries with a lot of money. What we need to start doing now is to theme our Budget like our friends in Mauritius have been doing. You cannot spread the thin resources around several sectors. That way, the impact is very little. You have little money and you want to venture into agriculture, manufacturing, agro-processing, mining among other things and so, in the end, you achieve very little. Why can we not do things in cycles? This is where we, as a country, we will just focus on tourism in the next five years, without hurting the other sectors. That way, the little money will achieve more. Then after that, you shift to another sector of the economy. In twenty years, I can guarantee you of change and this diversification programme will be a reality unlike what we currently have.

Sir, I had some voluminous notes but, on account of time, let me just make mention of the Sovereign Wealth Fund which we have been asking questions about. We have been hoping that there would be legislation to ring-fence the monies that will be going into the Sovereign Wealth Fund. The hon. Minister has already said that the proceeds from the profitability of some of the companies under IDC will be going into that fund. Unfortunately, there is legislation to guide the operations of the Sovereign Wealth Fund. What stops an over-zealous administration in future to shift around these monies? I think we need to put in place legislation to govern the operations of the Sovereign Wealth Fund. We need to take this as a matter of urgency.

Mr Speaker, the Budget does not address the issue of plugging the 6.9 per cent deficit. I think more needs to be done in terms of spending cuts, particularly on lavish and wasteful expenditure. This may include downsizing the Cabinet and reducing on foreign travels, especially by top government officials. Otherwise, next year we will again be talking about fiscal consolidation. If anything, our budget deficit may widen, notwithstanding the fact that we have been advised to tighten our belts further until we probably reach our bowels.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for this opportunity granted to me to make some comments. I will continue to make the rest of my comments when we begin to debate individual items in the Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I took time to read the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance, especially that I was not present when he delivered it to this House. I find that the old man has made a lot of effort to make people understand where we are. When you read this speech (waving a copy of the Budget Speech), it shows you that we are in serious economic trouble. Therefore, we need to make serious decisions and take steps to overcome our present predicament.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has said that the 2016 Budget theme is: “Fiscal Consolidation to Safeguard our Past Achievements and Secure a Prosperous Future for All.” This is a very nice statement. To understand this theme, I tried to look at what our achievements were. To start with, our external debt stood at US$1.1 billion in 2011, but is now at US$6.3 billion. Our domestic debt stood at about K13.8 billion in 2011 and has now risen to K26.5 billion. This means that our debt has doubled. If this is what we want to protect, then I have a big problem because this situation is not good. From the time the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power, the national debt has been increasing.

Mr Speaker, the 2015 Budget, which was K46.7 billion, is actually only worth about US$7.4 billion. The 2016 Budget, at US$53 billion, is only worth about US$4.6 billion. That is a reduction in value. We may think we have increased the National Budget, but in United States (US) Dollar terms, it has been reduced.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is an import-dependent country. We depend on so many imports, including the bitumen used to construct roads. Therefore, the depreciation of the kwacha means that our economy will be extremely strained. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has talked about measures to reduce the Government expenditure. I pity him because his friends in the Government do not understand him. I watched the hon. Minister’s recent interview on television. He urged his colleagues to reduce on foreign travel because this is one component that requires so much foreign exchange. I wondered whether the hon. Minister tells his colleagues that we are actually in big problems because there is so much reckless spending in the Government. However, when I heard that, I immediately came to the conclusion that the hon. Minister is like a captive in the Government.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, even if the hon. Minister of Finance proposes some control measures on the Government spending, there are some powerful colleagues in the Government that will not agree with him. They do not want to do away with the comfortable conditions that they have or lavish life style that they enjoy. It is as if they do not realise that the country is in a precarious situation. 

Mr Speaker, at the time when banks were being bailed out by the American Government, Zambia had some economic stability. We did not feel the effect of the last global economic meltdown. Zambia seemed to be steering in the right direction. It means that there was someone who was doing the right thing for us to have that stability. 

Mr Speaker, it is impossible for the hon. Minister of Finance to implement any meaningful measures when he in captivity. He has actually admitted that it is not easy to be the hon. Minister of Finance. I also do not envy his job because under the present circumstances, he has difficulties working with some powerful elements in the Government. We have heard stories of the hon. Minister being told to undertake projects outside the Budget and being pressurised to pay for such projects. 

Sir, I think Zambians do not find this Budget Speech inspiring. We have not even been able to achieve the target of allocating 10 per cent of the National Budget towards agriculture. Simple calculations tell me that 10 per cent of K53 billion is K5.3 billion. This is the amount that should be allocated to agriculture. 

Mr Speaker, agriculture development is not just buying maize through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) or implementing the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). When we talk about investing in agriculture, we must first look at what we have been doing wrong in the past in this sector. To start with, agricultural research has not been properly funded. 

Mr Nkombo: Extension services!

Mr Muntanga: Even the agricultural extension service programme has been poorly funded. The only allocation for this programme is for salaries of extension officers. Therefore, how do we expect them to teach people that to increase production, they have to do A, B, C, D? These are the things that we need to talk about. If we adequately invest in the agricultural sector, it can create the employment that we have been talking about. About 80 per cent of the people in this country rely on agriculture.

Mr Speaker, I have heard the story of diversification for a long time. It is not new because even those that have been in previous Governments have been talking about the same thing. Immediately after Independence, we started hearing about diversification. 

Sir, if you remember, there were a lot of advertisements in the past for people to grow groundnuts. There were even songs to encourage people to grow groundnuts. This was the time when the late Hon. Mudenda, may his soul rest in peace, was the hon. Minister of Agriculture. There was a lot of talk about diversifying into groundnut production. However, when people went into groundnut production, they were not supported. To-date, the only area that has remained growing groundnuts is the Eastern Province. On the other hand, no one is marketing the groundnuts produced in the Eastern Province to encourage farmers to continue producing this crop. All of us are just talking about diversification. People just want to sit in their offices and tell farmers to diversify. That is not the correct way of doing things. 

Mr Speaker, there are some people that are just used to growing maize. No matter what they are told, they will not diversify from the crop they like growing. When we talk about diversification, we must do something to attract people in agriculture to grow different crops. At some point, people were encouraged to grow sunflower. Alas, there was no marketing arrangement when farmers started producing sunflower and they lost out. As expected, they stopped producing the crop.

Sir, farmers have found it easier to produce maize because it is our staple food. Anybody who has eaten today should thank the farmer. Without the farmer, we would not have eaten. When we talk about agriculture, we have to be mindful of all these things.

What the Government is doing now in an effort to diversify and put up measures to improve the agriculture sector is cosmetic. Those in Government should go back to the records and see what the input support was intended for. It was intended to support people growing maize. The Government said that it would support vulnerable, but viable farmers. There are leakages in the fertiliser distribution exercise which do not serve the interests of farmers. They have now decided to adopt the famous e-voucher system which failed in Malawi. 

Mr Speaker, why grow maize in areas where it is not suitable to grow the crop? The same areas which are conducive for maize growing from Kalomo, Mkushi to the Copperbelt are the ones which have been introduced to the e-voucher system. In the areas where it is difficult to grow maize, the Government is still distributing fertiliser without analysing that decision. Then, next they will be saying that we have increased the production of maize. The Government is doing all this and yet it keeps talking about diversification. 

Mr Speaker, it would have been easier for them to go into those areas where maize is difficult to grow and tell people to grow cassava on a larger scale because they are already growing it. The Government can go to Chama and tell the people there to grow rice on a larger scale. Then the Government can concentrate on marketing that crop. When the Government markets a crop, the farmers will feel more encouraged to grow it. If the famers are told that there is a market for tobacco, they will grow it. The growing of tobacco has increased from 6 to 10 million kg per year to over 40 million kg per year because there is someone who is paying for it. 

Mr Speaker, this diversification is just by word of mouth. We just keep talking while nothing tangible is being done. Those who were part of Government before the PF came into power also kept talking about diversification. Those in Government now need to sit down and analyse issues properly. We are now facing serious problems which require us to take action. We will go into the same ditch where we are right now with no electric power because we never invested in power generation. We need to invest in research and extension. We have destroyed the extension services by moving some workers and not building houses for them in the areas where we have taken them. In the areas where we said we shall scale down on the number of people working, we have not gone back to do anything. So, what diversification are we talking about?

Mr Speaker, the situation is so bad such that funding has become difficult. The hon. Minister of Finance will lose more hair because he has to scratch his head to find money. Even Parliament is not properly funded.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has problems to get money. This has never happened before. We must realise that the situation is getting serious when the Government cannot find money to fund Parliament properly. One day, Parliament will fail to pay salaries. That is when we will realise that the situation is serious. It calls for more controls. We do not have to take cosmetic decisions like, just saying that, we are reducing taxation on clear beer so that those in that business can make more profit. What is that for?

Mr Sikazwe: Address the Chair!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we should be looking at what benefits the majority of the people. What are we supposed to focus on? Some poor people have started bringing vehicles into the country. Since new vehicles are very expensive, they are bringing in second hand vehicles. Everyone is driving, including teachers in the villages. Now, what have we done? We have increased taxes on vehicles. Any vehicle which is over five years old attracts another K2, 000 besides having increased other taxations on it.

Mr Nkombo: Carbon tax!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, carbon tax should have been levied on cars which smoke as a punitive measure. We are not doing that. On top of this carbon tax, we have told motorists that they must put a gadget on their vehicles which should control the amount of carbon coming out. We always seem to be fire fighting when we should not be.  

Mr Speaker, this Budget needs more action. The hon. Minister of Finance should tell other hon. Ministers to stop travelling. They need to stop having huge delegations going out to New York.

Mr Nkombo: 256!

Mr Muntanga: All the 256 people, for what? Some of the people on the delegation were just enjoying and entertaining themselves in New York. At whose expense? Why should we do that? Please, hon. Minister of Finance, tell them.

Mr Nkombo: Bali kutolaama musicians!

Mr Muntanga: I hear…

Mr Sikazwe: Takuli efyo ulelanda!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Deputy Minister, on my right. Please, desist from making running commentaries. It should not be a habit to debate while seated.

May the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, continue.

Mr Sikazwe laughed.

Mr Muntanga: He is even laughing. That is why my nephew insulted him.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: That is the problem. How can a hon. Minister keep laughing even when we are discussing serious problems? I am sure he can keep laughing even if he saw a fly in front of his mouth.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: I am not joking here. When it comes to the issuance of the national registration cards (NRCs), we should not put undue pressure on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. The cards should be available everywhere. There were times when the NRCs were being issued at every polling station. When that was being done, no one complained. This time, we suspect that certain things are being done purposely so that the elections can be rigged. People can think anything because of the problems that are there.

Mr Sing’ombe: And you are laughing!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, when people go to get their NRCs and find that there are no cards, it is not the fault of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. I am now saying what is on the ground. We should not defend things that are not correct. All I am saying is that important programmes should be funded properly. 

Mr Mwila left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Nkombo: You are going?

Mr Muntanga: Sir, those who are in the Government do not want to be told the truth. I do not want to appease anybody. I do not believe in friendships in which I do not have to tell a person the truth as it is. I am afraid that type of friendship is wrong. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I do not have to go round reminding people that cards are finished in some particular places. In the Southern Province, they distributed 1, 000 cards per district last week.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I think you were not here when a decision was made that during this segment we will not allow points of order to be raised because we want to allow as many hon. Members of Parliament on the left as possible to debate before we move to the right.

Mr Nkombo: It is on procedure, Sir!

The Deputy Chairperson: It is only this segment.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the payment vouchers which they have introduced allow transactions only worth K1, 500 per e-voucher. No one is controlling the price of fertiliser which has shot up to K450. Those people who are piloting this project are told to get up to four bags of fertiliser at K450 per bag. How much is it for four bags of fertiliser? That is K1, 800. This means that the farmer cannot get four bags of fertiliser and seed. You cannot force an agro dealer to give you inputs on a value that is more than what has been set on the voucher. That is not possible. Let us not deceive ourselves. In some of these areas where the e-voucher system is being piloted, there are no agro dealers. 

Mr Speaker, all I am saying is that this Budget has indicated to us that we have a problem. The hon. Minister of Finance has called upon the people that work with him to bear with him.

Mr Speaker, with regard to other problems, I will not stop to remind our friends. We have now decided to come up with a very good thing which is a bank for women. 

Mr Speaker, there is also an outstanding issue regarding the opening of the Co-operative Bank for farmers. The Government owes money to the co-operative movement. What was required was for the Ministry of Finance to enable the movement to establish the bank. The Co-operative Bank is not supposed to be for one gender. So, I would urge that the hon. Minister looks at it but It is unfortunate that for now it is difficult for the hon. Minister of Finance to work out his figures. We have a very ambitious Budget. I want to see us tighten the loose ends. The problem is that this happening at the tail end of the PF governing this country.
 
Mr Speaker, I wish they had taken these decisions in the first and second years of their being in office. Now, …

Mr Nkombo: It is at the end. It is the epilogue!

Mr Muntanga: ... it is at the end. You will be hesitant in whatever you do and, like someone debated, you are a courageous hon. Minister to take this decision right before elections. However, you have no choice. If we do not do it now, Zambia will be totally bankrupt. It is worrying that, as a farmer, I walk around not knowing what to do. The irrigation that you are talking about is a song that I have heard several times. There was a time when we had been told that there was US$40 billion to support irrigation programmes, but we could not see this money being used. When I would talk to the hon. Minister, he would say that there is money somewhere for dams. Let the hon. Minister of Agriculture work it out. What has been happening has made me realise that somewhere in the ministries, people do not want to do things at the correct time. 

Sir, all we want are small earth dams to be made all over. Those who own cattle should have access to water. Those who want an irrigation system for their vegetables should have it. Things should not be done the way they are being done now. It is not correct.

Mr Speaker, since I do not have enough time to discuss all the issues exhaustively, I wish to state that I am available to discuss certain matters further ...

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: ... so that we drive Zambia properly. What is happening as regards irrigation and the small dams that you are making with pipes to allow people to irrigate their vegetables is not the correct direction because there is no rain. We need to start tapping water from Bangweulu and pumping it across Zambia into the Zambezi River so that we can fill up the dams. 

Mr Nkombo: Or from the Indian Ocean!

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, even if I am an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament, I am available to be consulted. I will talk about what is wrong when consulted.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, this is now my tenth time to hold the Yellow Book. It seems that it keeps growing in volume with each passing year. Tagging on to what Hon. Dr Kalila said, I wish to state that the increasing volume is basically due to the duplicity of programmes. We are doing too many things and achieving nothing. I will come to specific examples later on. In fact, the volume of the Yellow Book should have been reducing, indicating that we are getting focused. However, it is shocking that ministries are busy fantasising and dreaming of new programmes instead of putting money where there is the highest impact.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: It is not the duplicity of programmes that will bring development to this country. I will sample a few ministries later on and show you how they are on the wrong path.

Sir, let me start with the narrative. The Budget has the narrative and the figures. The narrative is the foundation for the figures, eventually. The character and behaviour of the nation supports how the Budget is implemented. This country needs to get to work at every level. There is something bigger than just the figures.

Mr Speaker, we need to invoke true loyalty, patriotism and love for our motherland. Sometimes, I wonder whether we love our country. Generally, I do not see that love. The commitment to make this country better is not seen, by and large, and people do not care for as long as they benefit themselves. This is so at every level. I will bring this debate very low, to the councils. I wish the new hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing was here. 

Sir, the last time we had a full council meeting, I told my colleagues that we must be ashamed of ourselves that we cannot clean a small town. Do you need rocket science to clean a town or to put an integrated development plan together? All the towns are losing shape, but they want to launch an airline. Which tourists can come and see these dirty towns? They must be mad tourists. There is work to be done to clean up this country before you can showcase it.

Mr Speaker, today, most of us rarely go into town. What kind of confusion is that where you cannot walk on the streets? 

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We are not against anybody trading. All I want to see is our people trading decently. I just came from a place where people trade during the day and remove their stores in the evening. They are provided with amenities. I will come to the specific issues later.

Mr Speaker, let me now come to specific ministries and talk about the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare which deals with anti-poverty issues. It runs programmes such the Food Security Pack and Cash Transfer Programme which all carry administrations and the money just goes to overheads. Why does the Government not just give people money and they buy their food and seed? The people do not need to be told that they should buy seed. The way things are happening might lead to farmers receiving wrong seed. Can the Government not marry the different programmes and desist from creating too many of them? Let the Government give the farmers cash so that they freely decide which seeds to buy. They are not so dumb that they would not know what to buy.

Mr Speaker, the same applies to fertiliser. Can the Government not liberalise the fertiliser market and give the people the money so that they can decide which fertiliser to buy? Farmers are not children. At the moment, we are paying huge transportation costs. Check the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and see the cost of transportation. If we dropped it, we could benefit more farmers.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, with the use of information and communication technology (ICT), the Government can create a record of farmers and give them identification numbers and then send them money by Direct Debit and Credit Clearing (DDACC) across the country. Does the Government need to transport fertiliser to them? 

Hon. UPND Members: Kimasholi!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, at the moment, there are cartels in the fertiliser industry. The price of fertiliser as it obtains in Zambia is not a correct reflection of the true cost. The Government is buying fertiliser from a few privileged dealers who are overpricing it. Let us open up this sector like we did with the transport sector. Once the industry is opened up and incentives put in place, the cost of fertiliser will come down. Fertiliser is just some kind of dirt. How can it be so expensive?

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, we can set up factories across the country. There are cartels which are linked from this country to South Africa and Tanzania. We must break these cartels and fertiliser must become accessible and cheap. The Government must stop transporting fertiliser to farmers. There are many platforms through which we can give our farmers support which we can benefit from more. The fact is that we are paying for overpriced fertiliser due to cartels. Other people cannot come in because there are only a few privileged ones who get the contracts to supply fertiliser. Other people cannot bring fertiliser in the country because the Government will not buy it from them. The ones who get tenders are the only ones who can sell fertiliser. It is uneconomical for other people to bring in fertilisers because the Government has already contracted a few privileged cartel members. We need to break this practice.

Mr Speaker, in order to fully liberalise this economy, we need to make agriculture a business. God has blessed this country with eight neighbours. Many countries are struggling with market access when we have eight neighbours. The Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola can consume all our products in this country. 

Sir, a country develops by producing and selling. It is about export, export and export. No country has ever grown by sharing poverty within its borders. We need to open the borders and export some food. When the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has bought strategic food reserves, let us sell the rest. Our farmers are becoming the poor despite them feeding other people. We must weigh the interest of consumers and those of the farmers. The farmer is more important. Eventually, cheaper food will be available if the farmers are supported. We must start with production. I wish that Hon. Dr Scott was here. 

Mr Speaker, it has now become normal for mediocre things to be done in this country. It is all about populism. I read that populism breeds mediocrity, and this is what this country has come to.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, today, we glorify mediocrity everywhere. We think it is normal. It has become part of our culture. This country requires inspiration from the very top. We need a good example. I am happy that Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning is here. We do not need some of these excesses. I want to see Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning in Pick n Pay with two body guards. It is unnecessary to have all those people who follow her. Let us lead by example first, starting with the President. 

Sir, one time, I was driving and we had to wait for ten minutes before we could pass. I respect the Presidency, but it is not correct to close roads in your own country for you to pass, and with over thirty vehicles.

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I have gone to other countries, even those that are insecure. I was in Rwanda with a Committee and met President Kagame with three vehicles. 

Mr Nkombo: Yes, only!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, what is the pomp all about? The civil servants will be there telling you that you need certain things which you do not need. They must be dropped. We need to rationalise our expenditure from the very top.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, this situation is beyond the hon. Minister of Finance. It is about changing our culture, and that change must start from the top. We need the leadership to change their culture.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hanjika boyi!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, cadres are more powerful than party officials in this country. Everything is upside down, and we think that is normal. A cadre can actually take your life if he does not like you, and we think that is normal. This is the only country where we have cadres who behave as if we have been at war. There are no clean politics in this country. We seem to think dirty politics are better than clean politics. The people in the Government have a greater responsibility to put this country on a better path of true development. They have the bigger responsibility because they have the power. They should not say that it is the responsibility of the Opposition. They are the ones in the driving seat. We need inspiration from the top, and the leaders should lead by example. There are too many excesses in this country. At one time, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development talked about investing in playgrounds. What? 

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the meeting places for recreation are in schools. Therefore, the Government should invest there, instead of creating independent playgrounds. The Government needs to multi-task. Anywhere you will go in this country, you will find that the centres for congregating are the school premises. Why does the Government want to develop other places away from the schools, and waste Government money? The Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development should work with the Ministries responsible for Education when investing in recreation facilities in schools.  The children and the villagers will use those facilities in schools. That way, the Government will maximise the use of our resources. The same facility will have many users. Therefore, the Government will save money. This country does not have the luxury to do experiments. The Government should work within the established structures. We are littering infrastructure everywhere without a plan to maintain that infrastructure.  Everyone is building. Considering the limitations of our Budget, we can actually use the facilities under the Ministries responsible for Education for other things. When the schools are closed for holidays for regular pupils, the other pupils who need vocational training can use the schools. We incur a cost by leaving the school facilities idle for one month when the schools are closed. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the Government has been littering infrastructure everywhere. That is not innovation. It needs to use the schools for other purposes such as vocational training. Even the regular pupils can learn vocational skills during holidays at those same schools. Let us put clusters of development. For example, the Government can go to Nkeyemba Ward, in my constituency, and build schools, clinics, recreation facilities and everything else in that area. It is cheaper to do things that way. The Government can build fewer facilities that create more benefits for the people at a lower cost. 

Mr Speaker, there are some people in the Civil Service who have over-stayed. The President actually mentioned that we need to introduce performance contracts. We need to legislate performance products. After we finish legislating the Planning and Budgeting Bill, we need to legislate performance contracts. We need service charters for the Civil Service.  For example, it is not good for a citizen to keep going to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection just to get an offer letter because the civil servants keep asking him to keep going to the ministry indefinitely. There must be a service charter in the Civil Service. For example, when a person deposits all the relevant papers at the ministry, it should take two weeks to pick the offer letter. Today, it is like a person needs magic to get a title deed from the ministry, and the Government is saying that our people cannot access capital. How can they access capital without title deeds to their properties? As an hon. Member of Parliament, it took one year for me to get a title deed for my property. Civil servants are just busy running around with files, and they think they are working. Let us subject our workers in the Civil Service who implement polices to performance systems. There is a lot of deadwood in the Civil Service. I must say that there are good civil servants, and I know some of them, but there are also bad eggs. The only way we can clean up the Civil Service is through the introduction of performance systems. Rwanda has done that. 

Mr Speaker, the two former hon. Ministers of Local Government and Housing failed to make councils operate in a better way. There is a simple model that we can introduce to make councils operate more efficiently. Government needs to change the system. When approving the budget for councils, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing must attach the budget to performance contracts for the employees. For example, a Council Secretary should be asked to raise a certain amount of revenue for the council, before the council can be given a grant by the Government. If he does not achieve those conditions, he should pack and go away.  The Government is sending us incompetent Council Secretaries and we are so helpless against them. The council employees know that they are covered by the so called Local Government Service Commission. We are powerless against them, and our towns are dying. It is a question of making decisions that will change the way councils operate. What is the Government afraid of? The Government can change the system in one month. The councils are the ones that service our people, but they are the most incompetent. There are many Zambians who are qualified to work in the councils. The Government should remove those old people, who never even went to school, but just went to a local government seminar, and after that, they were employed, and then they put long titles after their names like local government chakutichakuti.

Sir, we want the Government to employ people who will deliver services. In some towns, people are dumping dirt anywhere. I went to my council, and they told me that in this quarter, they had done very well because they had managed to collect about 100 loads of rubbish from the town. I told them that that statement was rubbish itself because they were glorifying the picking of garbage that had been dumped illegally. Businessmen are dumping garbage anywhere, when they must have bins in designated areas. There is garbage everywhere in our towns. 

Mr Speaker, the planning in towns is disorganised. People have now opted to buy land from traditional authorities, and they are building without any planning because the Government is not giving land to Zambians. The only thing the Government is saying is that it is going to arrest people who are getting land illegally. If the Government will not give people land, they will get it illegally. A human being will be the last organism to die on earth. All other animals will finish first. If the Government does not provide land, the people will use illegal means to get it. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the Government must provide land, instead of condemning the people who are occupying land illegally. It is possible to provide at least 100 plots to young Zambians in every town, for them to own property. Now the Government is demonising the owning of property. Cadres are using shortcuts to acquire land. Everyone is inherently capable of stealing. Anyone can steal if the door is open. We have to close the doors. We all have the propensity to do something wrong. That is why we put regulations in place. 

Mr Speaker, this economy is now vulnerable to metal prices because nothing else is happening in the country apart from copper production. The construction sector can help us boost the economy. I was reading a report that said that Kafue Steel Plant is struggling because Zambians are not buying local steel products. People think that it is cool to buy things from China. Some people like to say, “I went in China to buy tiles.” Is that news? People are not loyal to the country. People are boasting about going to Dubai. They lack an identity. The contractors who are getting tenders for construction projects must support our currency by buying their materials here. The contractors are getting the little foreign exchange we have to go and buy steel from China, but our own company in Kafue making steel is starving. Some citizens even say that they cannot buy tiles made in Zambia to put in their house. They get their tiles from China.  When I told some people that I bought a bed from the market, they were unimpressed. That is why I want to see the President go to the market to buy a bed made by Zambians and say, “I sleep on this bed.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: He will inspire people by doing that. 

Mr Speaker, I want to see an hon. Minister buy a material and go to Kamwala to have a suit made for him by a Zambian tailor. I used to wear suits made by Zambian tailors before we destroyed our local cotton industry. When I was a student, I used to buy material to take to the tailor. There was a place behind Society House, where Zambian tailors used to make nice suits.  I remember at one time, I wore a suit made by a Zambian tailor and went to church. Everyone kept looking at me, and my cousin said to me, “My friend, why are you surprised? Everyone is looking at you because you look smart.” Now, people like Hon. Mubukwanu like to wear Chinese suits. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, your debate has been so good so far. Do not drag the hon. Member who is listening to your debate attentively into your debate. 

You may continue, please.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I want to conclude by talking about parastatals. I had so many things to talk about. There was a question about the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (Zampost) retrenching workers. I could not believe the news when I heard it. 

Mr Livune: Shame!

Mr Hamududu: With all the infrastructure around, people are still looking for commercial spaces. Today, First National Bank (FNB) has attached itself to the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel) infrastructure. The National Savings Bank could have co-operated and rented some of its office space to FNB. There should have been a facility or pay point for cash transfers. There is no initiative. How can the Zampost, with its entire infrastructure, make losses?

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: You are employing wrong people. 

Mr Livune: PF cadres!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, those working for the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), should be given serious performance contracts with clauses on profitability. If there are no profits, then corporations should go. Zambians want to benefit from these parastatals. How can Zampost retrench people? How can Zampost be beaten by Airtel Money, …

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: … Shoprite and Zoona? It is unbelievable that these are the people who are earning fat salaries and not us the leaders in here and they are let off the hook. They drive the best cars and live in mansions with tiles from China when they are giving a raw deal to the Zambian people. 

Mr Speaker, I will repeat myself. We need to seriously insulate this economy against fluctuations in metal prices. We could have done it a long time ago because the market was beckoning. Today, you will find a goat in Angola, during Christmas, going for K1,000. People have no access to such animals there. What were you linking in the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project? We should have opened up this country to markets. I found a road in the middle of nowhere. A road was built in the middle of nowhere for animals to use. 

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: No, I will not mention the place because I am a politician who might go there one day to ask for votes. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Hamududu: These roads are supposed to be strategic …

The Deputy Chairperson: Do not engage the hon. Member who is debating so well.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Allow me to listen to this good debate for a change. Continue, please.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I want to conclude by saying that this country needs a reawakening. It requires patriotism, loyalty and love. If we do not do this, we the leaders, would have failed the people. We have a collective responsibility. 

With these few words, Sir, I thank you. 

Ms Mulasikwanda (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If you do not want to debate, just walk out. Do not discourage people who want to work. 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: They are here to make sure that they work for the people who voted for them. Continue, hon. Member for Mulobezi. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, first of all …

Mr Chikwanda left the Assembly Chamber.

Laughter 

Mr Pande: The hon. Minister is the one walking out! 

Ms Mulasikwanda: I would like to thank you, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to make a small contribution on the hon. Minister’s Speech, especially on his preamble. I am not going to speak much, seeing as I am not an economist. I would like to talk about things the way I see them.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for his good and visionary speech and the Budget that he presented to this House. Page 1 is especially good because he mentions the weather pattern that has affected Southern Africa, particularly Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, in Mulobezi, where I come from, the Government erected one dam and rehabilitated another. This was in an effort to diversify from copper to agriculture. I am sure that you know that Mulobezi does not only produce timber, but also good quantities of maize. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Ms Mulasikwanda: Sir, in the 2014/2015 Rainy Season, Mulobezi was affected by the bad weather and the people are now starving. 

Mr Speaker, I also want to remind the hon. Minister of Finance that the dams in Mulobezi need to be rehabilitated. I am saying so because if these dams are not rehabilitated, we might have calamities in that area. 

Mr Mutelo: Ooh!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Yes! That is what we need to do. As my fellow hon. Members have been saying, we need to commit ourselves in trying to develop this country. We must be able to follow matters up to the end. Why should it be strange for me, as an hon. Member for Mulobezi to ask the Government rehabilitate the dams I am talking about? For sometime, I believe that our animals were doing fine because we had sufficient water. Currently, we do not have water because the dams are dry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I also want to say what other hon. Members have been ignoring. The economic challenges that Zambia is facing were not began by the Patriotic Front (PF). These problems started when the United National Independence Party (UNIP) was thrown out of power by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) under the leadership of the late President, Dr Chiluba. I am saying so because Zambia had a lot of assets and factories …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I think the quorum has collapsed. Can you ring the bells.

Business was suspended from 1242 hours until 1244 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that most hon. Members have been trying to demonise the PF Government because of the economic challenges that Zambia is going through.

Sir, I was once a leader of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), the founding political party of our country. I know that at the time it came out of Government, there were a lot of factories. We had a factory in Livingstone that used to manufacture blankets. Today, those factories are not there. The PF has only been in Government for four years. Who do we blame then? 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Sir, we had another factory known as the ITT Supersonic Zambia in Livingstone that used to make radiograms. In my opinion, those factories were doing well because the Government exported those products and earned foreign exchange. They also provided employment for the Zambian people. Zambezi Saw Mills Company in Mulobezi, where I come from, employed a lot of people and the Government earned a lot of foreign exchange from its products. 

Mr Speaker, we need to face reality. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government sold Government houses at K10 and because of that, most Government workers have no accommodation. Fortunately, the PF Government has repossessed the companies that were sold. Railway Systems of Zambia Limited (RSZ) is now State-owned. The people of Mulobezi are happy because they travel to Livingstone for only ten hours using the electrified train. Therefore, those who are demonising the PF Government must stop because their problems may not even come to an end. We need to help the Government implement this Budget. That way, everyone will benefit especially the young people who face many challenges. 

Mr Speaker, let us not talk evil for the sake of power. The good thing is that we only have two days to go before we go and face our God. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Zambian people have sinned before God and yet they do not appreciate the President of the Republic of Zambia’s declaration of a day of prayer and fasting. Let us seek God’s presence in order for him to give us new ideas on how best we can take this country forward.

Mr Speaker, allow me to spend about three minutes on the President’s declaration of 18th October, 2015 as the day of national prayers and fasting for reconciliation. Being a believer, I am a follower of Christ and maid servant of Jehovah Yahweh, the most high God. When Israel or Judah was surrounded by its enemies, the Bible tells us that, ...

Hon. Opposition Member: No quoting!

Ms Mulasikwanda: I am not quoting, I am just saying what the Bible says.

The Deputy Chairperson: Yes, but do not forget that you are debating the Supply Motion.

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I am winding up. It is just that some people are speaking to me.

The Deputy Chairperson: I know. I am just reminding you. You may continue.

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you. King Jehoshaphat, ...

Hon. Members: Aah!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... declared fasting and prayer because his city was surrounded by enemies. Was there anything wrong with what he did? So, what is wrong for our President to declare a day of prayer and fasting to ask God to give us wisdom and his goodness? I want to advise those who have been demonising that day that they should not forget that they were created by Jehovah. We all need to face our God at one time or the other. That way, he will forgive us and grant us divine wisdom.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, those who have been talking ill about this day should go to the new districts. I am not going to speak about the old districts. I am talking about the new districts because I come from one of them. There are a lot of developmental activities, which we have not seen in the last fifty years. This is a good thing that needs to be supported by all of us Zambians. We should not just come here and demonise a Budget which has been put together in good faith with the aim of moving this country forward.

Mr Speaker, I wanted to talk about these things because I consider them important and also because we need to move as one and support the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Sir, each one of us must respect the Government of the day. Governments are not put in office by people, but by God. So, those who think they can lead this nation simply because they have money must know that God is the one who raises people to be leaders. Leaders do not come from the east, west, south or north. Leadership is from God and so if people are not going to respect Jehovah, you shall surely keep talking and remain in the Opposition.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of the House. To start with, I want to thank the hon. Minister and also sympathise with his position, which I do not envy. His position is unenviable because he is the person chosen to bring forth the Budget in the midst of the economic problems currently being faced in Zambia. The Budget is before us, ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 20thOctober, 2015