Debates - Wednesday, 30th September, 2015

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Wednesday, 30th September, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 131, the Standing Orders Committee has made changes to the composition of the following Committees:

Committee on Estimates (1)

Mr G. Mwamba, MP

Committee on Education, Science, and Technology (1) 

Mr T. Kasonso, MP

Committee on Education, Science and Technology (1)

Mr M. M. Muteteka, MP, will replace Mr H. Kunda, MP

 Thank you.




61.    Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art:

(a)    why the Government evicted the villagers from Game management area (GMA) No. 14 in Nalusanga Area in Mumbwa District without giving them an alternative place to settle;
(b)    whether the Government would provide an alternative place for the villagers to settle before they became destitute;

(c)         if so, where they would be settled; and

(d)    when they would be settled.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Mumbwa GMA No. 14 has a General Management Plan (GMP) which has zones for human resettlement and wildlife management. This is supported by the Royal Highnesses Kabulwebulwe, Mulendema and Chibuluma.

Sir, hon. Members of this august House may wish to note that the first settlers moved to Nalusanga, Chungu in the 1990’s. When the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) was about to evict them, they obtained an injunction restraining ZAWA from doing so until the matter had been determined by the courts of law. As the court ruling was awaited, more people moved to the area, thereby increasing the population of illegal settlers. This resulted in a lot of damage to the GMA, as the pattern of land management by the settlers did not conform with wildlife management.

Mr Speaker, following the court ruling, which was in favour of the Government, the people of Chungu were allocated an alternative piece of land in Kaindu, Mumbwa District, which was demarcated for human settlement at a great cost by the relevant Government wings. However, despite the Government having spent resources to demarcate the alternative piece of land, the people of Chungu were still reluctant to take up the plots even when they would be given title deeds for them.

Sir, the people who moved to Chungu after the earlier settlers were not given alternative pieces of land as they were considered illegal settlers. ZAWA advised them to seek alternative pieces land from other chiefdoms like Kasempa, in Kasempa District and Kahare in Nkeyema District. Those who complied with this advice have since been resettled by the respective Royal Highnesses.

Mr Speaker, all the settlers in Chungu have been given an alternative piece of land in Kaindu area in line with the agreement. 

Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to inform this august House that the people will be resettled as soon as they accept the pieces of land that they have been offered.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, the settlers could have been authorised by the chief to move to the new sites. 

Hon. P. Ngoma indicated assent.
Mr Hamusonde: The hon. Minister is indicating assent, which means that the people were resettled with the full knowledge of the chief. I would like to know why the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officers opted to beat up the people instead of dialoging with them. The people who were provided with transport were dumped along the Nalusanga/Mongu Road. Why did the Government do that?

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, there is no evidence of settlers being beaten up. If the hon. Member has any evidence to that effect, he should bring it to our attention and we shall deal with the matter.

 I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has said that the settlers were advised to move to Kasempa and other areas. I would like to find out why the Government chose to relocate them to Kasempa without consulting the chief. Currently, there is chaos in Kasempa because more than 4,000 people are camped at Senior Chief Kasempa’s Palace. Why did you advise the people to go to Kasempa without consulting the chief?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the reason we chose Chiefs Kasempa’s and Kaindu’s areas, and Chief Kahare in Nkeyema is that the chiefdoms share boundaries with the national park in question. The people were given the opportunity to settle in an area of their choice. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was why was Senior Chief Kasempa not consulted?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, maybe, Senior Chief Kasempa was not consulted, while the other chiefs were consulted. I travelled to Chief Kaindu’s area with the then hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, and the then hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, Hon. Prof. Luo to negotiate for land for the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that an alternative piece of land was found for the settlers, but they refused to relocate. Considering that the people settled in the game management area (GMA) in 1990, and the matter regarding their relocation was taken to court, I would like to know when it was disposed of for the population to have swelled to those levels.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I have just been informed by the technocrats from my ministry that all the chiefs were consulted over the settling of people in their areas. So, I hope that answers Hon. Kabinga Pande’s question. As for the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for – you are an hon. Member of Parliament for which constituency?

Mr Speaker: Mpongwe.

Ms Kapata: Mpongwe. The Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) won the court case in 2014 when it was granted the injunction to relocate the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, some vivid photographs of the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officers setting ablaze houses in Nalusanga were circulated on social media. This act was condemned by many human rights activists who said that was an inhuman way of treating fellow citizens. This is an opportunity for the hon. Minister to deny or confirm this act. I would like to find out if the photographs were fake and, if not, why one would do such a thing.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, my ministry does not thrive on stories that circulate in the social media. There are a lot of wrong stories that are posted in the social media. Therefore, as a ministry, we are not going to depend on information that is circulated in the social media.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister kept referring to the people who were evicted as illegal settlers. I would like to find out from the ministry who is classified as an illegal settler in a Game management area (GMA), considering that GMAs are designed in such a way that both human beings and wildlife can co-exist.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I am sorry, I did not get the question clearly. I would be grateful if the hon. Member could repeat his question.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mbabala, could you repeat the question.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, how can somebody be called an illegal settler in a Game management area (GMA) which is designed in such a way that it allows human beings and wildlife to co-exist? That is the essence of a GMA. So, at what stage does one become an illegal settler in a place which allows the settlement of human beings?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it is true that GMAs are zoned for settlers. Animals are also zoned to live separately. However, we refer to the people as illegal settlers because when they settle in the GMAs, they start engaging in illegal activities. You know very well that they settle in the GMAs so that they can carry out poaching activities. So, that is what we are trying to put an end to. In fact, next week, I will bring a ministerial statement to this House on illegal settlers in all the national parks countrywide.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, Game management areas (GMAs) are zoned for habitation by both human beings and animals. The zones where human beings have settled are now becoming illegal settlements. No wonder the hon. Deputy Minister said that the people will be settled as soon as they accept to move. So, are you still going to beat up and evict the people who have settled in the GMAs if they refuse to be relocated?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Deputy Minister stated, there is a GMA management plan for Zone 14 of Nalusanga in Mumbwa. The settlers are defying the GMA management plan for the zone.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, as far as I am concerned, nobody is landless in Zambia. This means that all of us have land that we acquired in one way or the other. I, therefore, want to find out from my dear ‘wife’ ...


Mr Speaker: No.

Mr Chipungu: Sorry, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Please, save me from that.


Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for that remark and I withdraw it. I want to find out ...

Mr Speaker: She is the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art. You may proceed.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out where the settlers came from and whether it is possible to politely take them back to their places of origin.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the settlers came from different places. Some are Tonga farmers, Lozis from the Western Province and others are Kaondes from Kasempa, although Hon. Pande does not want them to go back there. They came from all over the country. So, I cannot specify which chiefdoms they came from. They are all Zambians from different parts of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I was beginning to get worried that you had become a marriage commissioner.


Mr Speaker: I resigned some time back.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that all the chiefs in the area were consulted. I am an hon. Member of Parliament from that area and I heard about the hon. Minister’s visit to Chief Chitanda, and the discussion she had with the chief. I was briefed that she is supposed to have gone back to discuss the issue of chiefdom boundaries. However, today, she has said that all the chiefs agreed when one chief did not agree. Can she comment on that.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I thank the reverend for that …

Hon. Members: He is a bishop!

Ms Kapata: Bishop or whatever he is called.


Mr Speaker: No, no, he is a bishop. Let us acknowledge him accordingly.


Ms Kapata: We visited Chiefs Mulendema and Chibuluma. After our discussion, Chief Chibuluma agreed, in principle, to receive some of the settlers though he did not say it in our face.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, have the rules on people living in Game management areas (GMA) been changed?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the rules are still the same. GMA 14 is meant for animals. That is why we want the people living there out of the area.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, on 17th September, 2015, I was travelling from Mongu when I saw, with my own eyes, houses being set ablaze. It was a sad situation. When I reached Lusaka and interacted with some people, I discovered that those were people’s homes.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister claims that the settlers were poachers when I used to see trucks go to that area to buy tomatoes. I think the Government is happy to see people’s houses burnt and blankets thrown all over. What compensation or activity does the Government have for the people so that they can, at least, feel like they are also human beings?

Mr Speaker: I am sure by activity he meant measures.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, first of all, the houses which we set ablaze were vacated after the people were evicted. So, no one lost any property because the houses were vacant. The houses were set ablaze because we did not want the people to go back to the area.

What was the other question? Nindaba nokulaba. This is the effect of menopause.

Mr Miyutu: Compensation.

Ms Kapata: Sir, there will be no compensation of any kind. The Ministry of Tourism and Art has negotiated with the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) so that as soon as it starts buying maize, it can start with the people who have been evicted so that they can move out of the game parks. It should be noted that the people settled in game parks illegally. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 


62.    Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Home Affairs which category of foreign nationals were allowed to work under the following conditions:

(a)    with work permits; and

(b)    without work permits.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Chanda): Mr Speaker, it is a requirement for all foreign nationals who work in Zambia to be issued with work permits. No category of foreign nationals is allowed to work in Zambia without a work permit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am thankful for that question.

Mr Speaker: You are thanking yourself for the question?


Mr Namulambe: For the answer. Sorry, Sir.

Mr Speaker, what kind of work permit is given to a Chinese farmer who comes to Zambia to grow vegetables or rear chickens? Work permits are given to foreign nationals who come to run groceries in compounds like Chazanga at the expense of Zambians. Surely, vegetable growing …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You have already asked your question. Now you are commenting on your question.

Col. Chanda: Sir, the ministry is guided by laws and regulations. Tied to the regulations are certain requirements that must be fulfilled by the would-be investor before a work permit is issued. Ultimately, depending on the nature of the activity, a work permit is issued.

Mr Speaker, by way of a bonus answer, let me also share with the hon. Member that there are various categories of work permits in the ministry. The first one is what is called a spouse’s permit. For example, a Chinese who marries a Zambian is issued with a spouse’s permit. To earn a living, and working in partnership with that Zambian, the Chinese national is allowed, by law, to start keeping chickens, for instance. If they want to start selling eggs to sustain their livelihood, that is also allowed in our laws.

The other permit is an investor’s permit. As you know, this permit has certain conditions attached to it. Upon payment of certain prescribed fees through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), an investor’s permit can be issued. Those who get both the spouse’s permit and investor’s permit look towards obtaining, at some stage, a resident’s permit because that is the ultimate. Once someone meets certain conditions such as getting an investor’s permit and conducting business according to our rules and regulations for a period exceeding three years, he/she may qualify for a resident permit.

Sir, we are governed by certain laws. We do not look at skin colour or where someone comes from. An investor, resident or someone married to one of the Zambian nationals qualifies to get the respective permit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, there are many foreigners in this country in the block-making business. Some of them sell vegetables while others sell second-hand clothes at Kamwala Market. In his response, the hon. Minister said that some of them could be married to Zambians. How many times are the permits reviewed to verify that the permit holders conform with what the permits are issued for?

Col. Chanda: Sir, we are mindful of the issuance of permits and handling of would-be-investors. This is because other than the business they perform, there is also the aspect of security. We are cognisant of the fact that security is paramount even when issuing permits. The businesses that the hon. Member is referring to like blocking-making, for example, are in categories. If you classify block making as manufacturing, like is the case at the moment, …

Mr Shakafuswa: Manufacturing blocks?

Col. Chanda: The law classifies block-making as manufacturing. If someone in that business fits that description and brings in appropriate investment in the country, we have no reason to deny him a permit. That is the reason we scrutinise the applicants. From time to time, we also carry out investigations on those who do not comply with the set standards in the issuance of permits. As you may have heard before, some people have been flashed out of the country within 24 hours for not complying with the set standards. We take such matters seriously.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I have seen, with my naked eyes, a Chinese national roasting maize by the roadside. 


Mr Mbewe: They are disadvantaging our people from taking up that type of business. 

Mr Kampyongo: They are married to Zambians!

Mr Mbewe: Even if they are married to Zambians, hon. Minister, how often do you countercheck to make sure that they are doing what they came here for?

Mr Speaker: Frequency.

Col. Chanda: Mr Speaker, our checks are indefinite. They are determined by the reports that we get from well-wishers such as you. If you had reported to us about the incident where a Chinese national was roasting groundnuts or maize under suspicious circumstances, we would have investigated it.

Sir, I am not going to answer an abstract question. I think you need to refer to a more specific incident. For that Chinese national to be roasting maize, he must have had some documents in compliance with the law. Otherwise, the law would have visited him and action would have been taken.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, my question also relates to frequency. So, it has been overtaken by events.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, China has a population of 1.3 billion people. So, ‘exporting’ people to Zambia would be a big relief. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether we have quotas of how many Chinese nationals we can accept in the country. Currently, there are more Chinese than Zambians on international flights going out of or coming into Zambia. Do we have quotas of how many we can take in? Otherwise, this country will eventually be taken over by the Chinese.

Col. Chanda: Mr Speaker, there are no quotas. However, we are cognisant of the fact that the numbers must be regulated.

Mr Speaker, if I may remind the hon. Member of Parliament, he should be grateful to the Chinese.

Mr Shakafuswa: Ah!

Col. Chanda: You must be grateful.

Mr Mbewe: Eh!

Col. Chanda: With the level of investment that is pouring into the country, you cannot say that sort of thing about the Chinese.

Mr Shakafuswa: What?

Col. Chanda: You cannot. 

Zambia would not be where it is …

Mr Muchima: No!

Col. Chanda: … without the partnership of the Chinese.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Col. Chanda: We live in a global village. The level of discrimination that you are trying to instigate should not be entertained in a country that is promoting oneness.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha : Mr Speaker, …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa: I am a concerned Zambian. How can the hon. Minister say that he cannot entertain a question like the one I have asked? I find that to be in bad faith.

Mr Speaker, I am an hon. Member of Parliament and I am cognisant of the fact that the Chinese have invested in Zambia. I am also aware that some Chinese came here to push wheelbarrows, roast maize by the roadside and are not investing in infrastructure development. 

Sir, is the hon. Minister in order to trivialise my question? As a Zambian, I feel the question should be answered properly.

Is the hon. Minister in order, Mr Speaker? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the hon. Member for Katuba was perfectly in order to find out if there is a quota. The hon. Minister ably responded by saying that there was no quota. Ideally, the matter should have rested there.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Hon. Minister, when a person comes into Zambia as a visitor and is issued with a visitor’s pass, when does he/she marry a Zambian to have his/her status changed? What status are they given after having come into the country as visitors?

Col. Chanda: Sir, you can start courtship through correspondence and eventually end up in marriage.


Col. Chanda: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, in the last few days, hon. Members have been raising serious concerns with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry about the protection of infant industries. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs talked about how work permits are issued in regard to the manufacturing industry and cited block-making as an example. There is a contradiction between what the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry has been propagating in the House and responses by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in relation to the protection of certain but specific infant industries in Zambia. 

Sir, is there collaboration between the two ministries?

Col. Chanda: Sir, regulations and concern are two different things.

Mr Speaker, at one time, I thought that block-making was not the best business to invest in but, upon visiting the law, I found that there is a clause in the law which qualifies blocking-making as an acceptable business in Zambia. It is up to this House to change that law. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is: Is there any collaboration between your ministry and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry?

Col. Chanda: Yes there is. We collaborate and we always compare notes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what happens when someone who holds a spouse’s permit is divorced.

Col. Chanda: Mr Speaker, when the divorce is finalised in the courts of law, the permit lapses and the foreigner must automatically leave the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I am very worried that the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs feels that by Chinese nationals coming into Zambia, they are doing us a favour. On the contrary, we know that they come here to make money by investing and having a return on their investment. I hope that the Government will reflect on the position that the Chinese nationals are doing us a favour by coming here, because they are not.

Mr Speaker, is the Government not worried about the influx of Chinese nationals who are not adding value to the economy of this country, but are crowding out Zambians from their land, thereby causing an increase in the price? They are investing in sectors where they should not be allowed to operate.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, the Government is equally worried. Its position is that the ministry will not approve work permits for any Chinese national coming into Zambia to work, for instance, as a bricklayer. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: The Government’s position is that we have to reduce the number of foreigners and only allow experts in fields that lack local expertise. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: We shall not approve work permits for foreigners who will come to work as bricklayers or carpenters.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, …


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Konga: ... now that the hon. Minister has clarified the Government’s position, I would like to find out whether there are any measures in place to safeguard certain categories of business and restrict them to Zambians only and only allow foreigners to undertake businesses which Zambians cannot undertake.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I will soon issue a ministerial statement on the issuance of work permits, spouse’s permits, resident’s permits and investor’s permits. 


Mr Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, we are concerned about the number of foreign workers in the country. In this vein, we have engaged mining companies on the number of expatriates that they have engaged. For example, at the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), there were sixty-nine expatriates as at January, 2015. We have told them to reduce the number to forty. Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) had thirty-six expatriates; Lubambe Copper Mines (LCM) had thirty-eight; and First Quantum Minerals (FQM) had sixty-four expatriates. However, since it is expanding its operations, we have allowed it to maintain the number. 

Therefore, hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma, we are monitoring the numbers. It is true that some people come into Zambia for genuine reasons while others do not. We have to accept this and work towards reducing the numbers. Thereafter, we can give a report to Parliament.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Ema Minister, aya!


63.  Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the construction of Chibende and Kafwanka secondary schools in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency would commence, considering that the local communities had already moulded bricks; and

(b)    what other contributions towards the projects were required by the communities.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, construction works at Chibende, ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mabumba: ... and Kafwanka secondary schools in Chembe have started and the structures are almost at wall-plate level. 

Sir, the contributions towards the project that are required from the communities are:

(i)    building sand;
(ii)    river sand;
(iii)    crashed stones;
(iv)    burnt bricks; and 
(v)    timber.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the question was not supposed to read that way. However, the correction has since been made. Nonetheless, me take advantage of the response and ask the hon. Minister whether he is aware that the people of Chibende have failed to make their contribution of K120,000? In view of this, can the Government tell us how the shortfall will be met.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry appreciates that different communities have different abilities as regards the contribution of 25 per cent towards projects. This is why, for the first time in our infrastructure development guidelines, we have decided that 2 per cent of the project fund  be used to procure materials which communities are unable to provide. Although 2 per cent of the project fund may not be much, the community at Chibende should be able to use it to procure the required materials. 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.


64.     Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development: 

(a)    how many dams were earmarked for construction and rehabilitation in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency in 2015 and 2016;

(b)    what the cost of rehabilitating each dam was; and

(c)    when construction of dams at the following areas in the constituency would commence:
(i)    Manyi;
(ii)    Gumba;
(iii)    Nkhanga;
(iv)    Mtwalo;
(v)    Chibango; and
(vi)    Munyukwa.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, currently, there are no immediate plans to construct and rehabilitate dams in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency in 2015 and 2016 because this is scheduled to be undertaken at a later stage. 

Mr Speaker, the cost of rehabilitating a dam depends on the condition and extent of the damage. 

Mr Speaker, the Department of Water Affairs is in the process of developing the Dams Development Plan for the whole country with support from the World Bank through the Water Resource Development Project. To this effect, the hon. Member must take comfort in the fact that Manyi, Gumba and Nkhanga have already been assessed. The other three dams, namely Mtwalo, Chibango and Munyukwa, are also being assessed with a view to including them in the master plan that is being developed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the dams will be constructed at a later stage. I am glad that assessments have been carried out in certain places. When do you think the assessments will be concluded? 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the Water Affairs Department has been maintaining and constructing dams sporadically across the country. To that effect, we have devised the Dams Development Plan in order to create consistency in the construction of dams with support from the World Bank. Like I mentioned earlier, three dams have already been assessed, and we hope that the other three dams will be assessed and included in the plan in due course. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, most of the dams the Government is rehabilitating were constructed during the colonial days. I had also asked a similar question on Chadiza and was told that the Government had no plans to construct dams. However, we have been told that there is money for the rehabilitation of dams that were built in the colonial days, but it is just on paper because it is never released. May I find out from the hon. Minister why the money meant for the rehabilitation of dams cannot be used to build new dams in Lundazi. 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, thank you, hon. Member, for that good suggestion. The Ministry of Mines, Energy, and Water Development, through the Department of Water Affairs, is assessing the situation to ensure that the project is undertaken. You will be interested to know that each year, four dams are constructed across the Republic of Zambia at an average cost of K1.5 million to K3.5 million. So, it is not that we have been doing nothing. We have been working in other areas. In fact, we are currently working on some dams in Chipata and will certainly get to Chasefu. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that three dams have been assessed. May I find out how long it takes for the ministry to start rehabilitating the dams after the assessment has been conducted. 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the construction starts immediately after the assessment has been carried out because we already have the resources under the World Bank facility. However, in this case, what has delayed the project is the devising of the Dam Development Plan, which will include all the constituencies across the country. We want to consider drought-prone areas where animals and people struggle to get water. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister be kind enough to inform us what the outcome of the assessment of the three dams is. 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the assessment has indicated that rehabilitation works have to be undertaken on the dams in the three areas. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Outcome?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the outcome of the assessment of the dams is that they need to be rehabilitated. In some cases, we need to construct new ones because the cost of rehabilitation is higher than that of putting up new ones. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The question is: Are you going to communicate the outcome of the assessments to the hon. Members?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, yes, we will. 

I thank you, Sir. 


65.     Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    what measures the Government had taken to reduce the deficiency of Vitamin A among the Zambian population, following a statement by the World Health Organisation (WHO) on the deficiency; and

(b)    which organisations the Government had worked with to reduce the deficiency.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the Government is concerned about the nutritional status of the population. Therefore, it has put in place the following measures to combat micronutrient deficiencies and Vitamin A deficiency in particular:

(a)    developed the National Food and Nutrition Policy in 2009 and the 2011-2015 Nutrition Strategic Plan to guide the implementation of programmes;

(b)    constituted a committee of Permanent Secretaries (PSs) on nutrition to oversee the design and implementation of nutrition programmes in the country; and

(c)    commenced the process to amend the National Food and Nutrition Commission Act CAP 308 of 1967 in order to strengthen the legal framework for the food and nutrition sector in the country. 

The programmes include the following:

(i)    Vitamin A supplementation – conducting bi-annual Child Health Week campaigns with the provision of Vitamin A supplements as the core activity. According to research conducted in Zambia, the diet in Zambia does not provide sufficient Vitamin A. As such, there is a need to provide supplements. Evidence has shown that the bi-annual supplements of Vitamin A are sufficient to last six months. However, due to high levels of Vitamin A deficiency among the population, there is a need to complement the campaign with other interventions in order to boost and sustain the levels of Vitamin A in the body;

(ii)    breastfeeding – promoting, protecting and supporting appropriate breastfeeding for infants and young children aged between zero to twenty-four months;

(iii)    fortification – fortifying sugar with Vitamin A. Sugar was chosen as a suitable vehicle for supplementing Vitamin  A, based on the results of  a study that was carried out in 1998;

(iv)    food diversification  –  the National Food and Nutrition Commission, through the Ministries of Health and Ministry of Agriculture, and Livestock, is promoting the consumption of foods rich in Vitamin A. The foods include, but are not limited to carrots, pumpkins, mangoes, pawpaw, palm oil, dark-green leafy vegetables, tomatoes, and animal products; and 

(v)    bio-fortification – developing, releasing and promoting varieties of orange maize and sweet potatoes. Research has shown that these varieties of maize and sweet potatoes have a lot of Vitamin A. It is expected that the seed for this crop will be increased soon to reach most farmers. 

Mr Speaker, the Government is working with various stakeholders in making both direct and nutrition-sensitive interventions to reduce Vitamin A deficiency among the population. The following ministries are collaborating on nutrition programmes:

(a)    Health;

(b)    Community Development, Mother and Child Health, through the National Food and Nutrition Commission;

(c)    Agriculture and Livestock, through the Food and Nutrition Unit, by promoting the cultivation of Vitamin A rich crops, and the Department of Agriculture, by promoting seed multiplication and production of Vitamin A rich-crops;

(d)    Local Government and Housing, by controlling infections through improved water and sanitation; and 

(e)    Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. 

 Mr Speaker, the Government has also partnered with the following organisations and non-governmental organisations (NGOs): 

(i)    United Nations (UN) agencies and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) to provide technical and financial support to nutrition programmes; and 

(ii)    Harvest Plus for research, seed production and promotion of orange maize and sweet potatoes.

(iii)    Care International to scale up the Nutritional Management Unit, funded by a consortium that includes Irish Aid, the Swedish International Development Co-operation Agency (SIDA) and the Department for International Development (DFID). These will focus on implementing the 1,000 Days Most Critical Days Programme of which the control of Vitamin A deficiency is part of the high-impact interventions;

(iv)     World Vision Zambia to provide Vitamin A capsules for bio-annual events;

(v)    private sector for sugar fortification, including sugar companies in Zambia such as Zambia Sugar Plc, Kasama Sugar  and Kafue Sugar; and

(vi)     civil society for advocacy.  

Mr Speaker, these measures are aimed at preventing Vitamin A deficiency in the general population, especially in children below the age of five and postpartum mothers. Vitamin A is also used in the treatment of patients with eye problems, measles and malnutrition, among others. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, both the programmes that are running and those yet to be introduced have been well outlined.  

However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether or not it is possible to fortify mealie meal with Vitamin A. In Kalabo, few people can afford both sugar and mealie meal. Would you not support the idea of fortifying mealie meal with Vitamin A?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, this question can only be answered after research has been conducted. 

The decision to fortify sugar was informed through research that was conducted in 1998. We looked at the best vehicle that would ensure that Vitamin A was sufficiently consumed and sugar proved to be the most appropriate vehicle. However, research is on-going to find other tools of ensuring that Vitamin A is accessed by every citizen. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

 Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I am aware that National Milling Corporation Limited fortifies its breakfast meal. What is the Government doing to encourage other millers to fortify their products? What incentive can be provided to attract other millers to also fortify their products?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, once we adduce evidence that this would be the best route, then, we shall incentivise the fortification of mealie meal by other milling companies. As we speak, however, the evidence we have is that sugar was the best tool to fortify to ensure that citizens had enough Vitamin A. As I said earlier, research is on-going. So, if further evidence is adduced, we shall definitely consider this option. However, for now, we do not have this programme. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, while I appreciate the fact that sugar was the best commodity to fortify with Vitamin A, very few people in rural areas such as Chavuma, consume this product. This has resulted in children not getting the Vitamin A supplement. 

Hon. Minister, for an area like Chavuma, what foods can parents give to their children for Vitamin A supplement? 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, this question was partly answered. 

It is very important to note that the Vitamin A we put in sugar supplements the Vitamin A that we get from our diet. Data from the West indicates that there are very few cases of Hypovitaminosis or Vitamin A Deficiency (VAD) because their diet is sufficient in Vitamin A. 

Mr Speaker, for people who live in rural and urban areas, education on nutritional support that focuses on the consumption of leafy-green vegetables, carrots and liver, for those who can afford, is very important. Common fruits like mangoes and papaya are rich sources of Vitamin A. So, even if someone lives in the rural areas, as long as they can consume leafy-green vegetables, they can have adequate Vitamin A. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, my attention has been drawn to the information given by the hon. Member for Chipata Central who said that National Milling Corporation Limited fortifies one of its products. I did not know that. 

Hon. Minister, in the absence of a clear legal framework and guidelines on fortification, I am sure you and I are worried about the processes and lack of evidence regarding the fortification of mealie meal. Are you considering taking up this matter?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we will definitely follow up on this matter. Fortification is supposed to be supported by a legal framework. At the moment, only sugar is fortified. I am, therefore, reluctant to comment on the fortification by the National Milling Corporation Limited because I will need to find out under what circumstances it is being fortified, if indeed it is. I would be happy to come back later with information on that. 

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Kalila has asked my question. I, therefore, have no question to ask except to say that he must go and eat mangoes.

Mr Speaker: Actually, he asked a similar question. It is not yours. 



66. Mr Mufalali asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing: 

(a)    why Senanga District Council had delayed in issuing title deeds to property owners who bought former council houses in Nzuli Compound; and 

(b)    when the title deeds would be issued. 

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the delay in the issuance of title deeds to property owners, who bought former council houses in Nzuli Compound in Senanga District, is due to the fact that the houses were sold to sitting tenants under one title deed. There was a need for sitting tenants to obtain individual title deeds, but only after they had their properties surveyed. After having the properties surveyed, then, the local authority would write to the Commissioner of Lands to recommend the issuance of title deeds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we have been told that money was paid to the councils for the title deeds to be processed. Now that the title deeds are nowhere to be seen and the money has not been paid back to the owners, what is the ministry doing about it? 

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, that is news to us. We are not aware about the money that was paid for the title deeds to be processed. In fact, this question was supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection because it is in charge of the issuance of title deeds. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to tell me that my question should have been directed to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection when the houses were sold by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? 

Mr Speaker: As the hon. Minister continues to respond to the questions, please, get back to the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Senanga.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just informed the nation that councils do not issue title deeds but the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. Is the hon. Minister not aware that local authorities also have the power to issue title deeds under the Statutory Housing Areas Act, taking into account that the area he is referring to falls under the Statutory Housing Areas Act?

Mr Speaker: The Housing (Statutory and Improvement Areas) Act.


Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, our main goal is to issue title deeds through the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. We are aware of what is happening and the fact that there is separation of powers in the ministries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: You can also tackle the question by the hon. Member for Monze Central. Comment on the Housing (Statutory and Improvement Areas) Act.


The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the observation by the hon. Member for Monze Central that councils issue title deeds is correct. In the case of Senanga, the properties were under one title deed. When selling off the property to the sitting tenants, the local authority was requested to get title deeds which would be valid for ninety-nine years. The procedure was that they were supposed to have the property surveyed and recommended by the council. This is the reason we are not aware that money was paid for the council to process the title deeds. I am aware that the hon. Member is actually a member of that council and he could be saying the truth, but the ministry is not aware. We shall, therefore, investigate and see whether that is the correct position. Currently, the tenants are being sensitised to have their properties surveyed so that they are recommended to the Commissioner of Lands for the issuance of title deeds. That is exactly what the question is talking about. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, is hon. Minister aware that the Housing (Statutory and Improvement Areas) Act is only applicable to municipal and city councils and not district councils?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware about all such issues. This is why I got worried when the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga said that the local authority was receiving money to process the title deeds because that Statutory Instrument is not applicable at district council level. 

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that more than 90 per cent of councils have not issued title deeds to people who bought houses. This does not just apply to Senanga, but the country as a whole. What is the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, together with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, doing to solve this problem which has been there for a long time?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, as the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, we are aware that municipal councils and city councils are giving title deeds probably under the above-mentioned Statutory Instrument. If a council, which is mandated by law to issue title deeds, had not been doing so, it would be appropriate for the members of that council, including the hon. Members of Parliament, to bring this to the attention of the ministry. Otherwise, we are working very closely with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to ensure that the process of issuance of title deeds is expedited. We have taken some steps to try to correct the situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Mbewe said, this issue relates to all the councils in the country. It is worrying for the hon. Minister to state that he is not aware that there is this problem in all the councils countrywide. The hon. Minister must be aware that even in Kalabo, the council made the people pay for plots that were sub-divided into smaller plots. The houses that were sold by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing fell under one title deed. Is it not prudent for the Government to issue title deeds to the people who bought the houses? 

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the issuance of title deeds is a process. I hope that the hon. Members are aware that there are fees that must be paid for a title deed to be processed because the land that must be issued with a title deed should be surveyed. For the issue in question in Senanga, apart from the money that the tenants paid for the properties, they are also supposed to pay survey fees when applying for the issuance of title deeds. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, when the council sold this piece of land, was it not its responsibility to sub-divide it before selling it to the people?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has gone astray because we are discussing housing units and not land.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was: Should the council not have initiated the survey of the land where the houses are situated?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the houses were sold at a low price. The survey fees were supposed to be taken care of by the property owners. The property owners have been sensitised, but they are reluctant to get their individual survey reports which the council should use to recommend for the issuance of title deeds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


67.     Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing how many boreholes were earmarked for sinking in Nkeyema District in 2015 and, if none, why.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the Government has planned to sink a total of ten boreholes in Nkeyema District in 2015. The contract has already been signed between the contractor and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the contractor has since moved on site.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I would like to know the name of the company that has been contracted.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the contractor is Zambezi Drilling and Exploration Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, will the beneficiaries pay any fees for the sinking of the boreholes in Nkeyema?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the current policy is that wherever a borehole is being drilled, the community should pay a commitment fee so that it has ownership of the borehole. Currently, the fee is K1,500.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, could the ministry reduce the fee because people are failing to raise the K1,500?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, we advised the local authorities not to collect the K1,500 advance payments because it is far less than the cost of a borehole. I disagree with the hon. Member that communities fail to contribute this amount because they have actually been contributing to the extent that the local authorities are overwhelmed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, what is the value of the ten boreholes that will be sunk in Nkeyema?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the boreholes are part of the 150 boreholes that will be sunk in the Western Province. The average cost per borehole is K30,000. One contractor has been engaged to drill all the boreholes. That is a round figure. However, we could come back to the House and indicate how much the ten boreholes will cost.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, in an event that a community fails to make its contribution, will the boreholes still be sunk?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is the Government’s responsibility to provide water to the citizens. In the event that a community fails to make its contribution and it is confirmed that it is vulnerable − although it is unlikely that a community can reach a level of vulnerability that it fails to contribute that amount − the Government will still drill the borehole.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in the unfortunate event that the driller is unable to find water after a community has contributed the K1,500 to the local authority, is the money given back to the community?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the conditions of drilling boreholes stipulate that if a drilling company does not find water at a site, it can move to another site until it finds a wet site to drill a borehole for the community.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that contractors and borehole drillers charge the Government more than they charge individuals or companies to drill a borehole.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that in some cases, prices have been exaggerated. However, it must be borne in mind that the location of the borehole also has a bearing on the price of the borehole. 

Sir, we are also aware that, sometimes, there is a temptation in the procurement process to inflate prices. As the Government, we try to scrutinise each contract before a contractor is engaged to ensure that we get the average cost.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am happy that the ministry is aware that the costs are inflated in most cases.

Sir, like the hon. Minister has mentioned, I am on record as having said on the Floor of the House that I was charged K15,000 to have a borehole drilled and hand pump installed at my farm. The Government contracted a company to drill a borehole at the next farm, but was charged K30,000 despite the depth of the borehole being less than mine. Since the Government is now aware about this, can it not consider looking at the lowest average cost of sinking a borehole so that we can have more boreholes sunk in the country.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the Government is doing everything possible to reduce the cost of drilling boreholes in order to serve more communities. The Government is also aware about the over pricing. The House may wish to know that there are different procurement packages in drilling a borehole. Some boreholes are fully equipped while others will have the package that includes the testing of the borehole. Therefore, the differences in figures arise due to the package that is stipulated in the contract.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


68.     Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    when Kwenye Health Post in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency would be 
opened to the Public; and 

(b)    how many trained staff would be deployed to the centre.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that this is a Constituency Development Fund (CDF) project that started in 2011 and was completed in 2013.

Sir, currently, the health post has two community health assistants. Consideration will be given during the 2016 Net Recruitment Exercise to provide additional health personnel. The total number of trained staff at the facility will be five.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the correct name for the health post is Kwenje not Kwenye.
Sir, although the health post has been officially opened, the issue at hand is that there are no staff to offer services to the community.

 The House may also wish to know that in 2013 when the health post was opened, the Government took advantage of the by-election in the area and opened the health post without considering the issue of manpower. I would like to know when the ministry will consider sending trained staff to the health post. Recently, the community was asked to pay a security guard who is guarding the premises. May I know when the Government will send health personnel to the health post?

 Mr Chisala: Mr Chisala, as I indicated earlier, the Government will consider sending health personnel to the health post after the recruitment exercise that will be conducted in 2016. Therefore, once the exercise has been completed, the Government will send two members of staff to the health post. As I have already indicated, we need, at least, five trained members of staff for Kwenje Health Post. Therefore, we shall send trained staff in 2016.

 I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister agree with me that it was illogical for the Patriotic Front Government (PF) to have opened the health facility without any health personnel at hand.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it was illogical to open the facility without personnel to man it.

 The hon. Member of Parliament should realise that when the Government decided to open the health post, two members of staff were posted there to man it.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that the situation is not peculiar to Katete. For example, there are three completed clinics in Chipata Central Constituency, but the Government cannot officially open them because there is no staff, equipment and furniture available. Is the hon. Minister aware that this is the situation countrywide? 

 Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we are not aware about the situation. Nevertheless, the best the hon. Member should do is write to the Provincial Medical Officer and then we shall look into that.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker is the hon. Minister aware that allowing unqualified people to administer drugs is endangering the lives of the people of Kwenje?



The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila) (on behalf of The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kabanshi)): Mr Speaker, I have stated that there are two health personnel currently working at the clinic. That is the reason the hon. Deputy Minister has said that once we complete the recruitment exercise next year, the ministry will send personnel to the clinic.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, it has been brought to my attention that the security guard, who is manning the health post, is paid by the community. When is the Government going to take over the responsibility of paying the security guard?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that. The hon. Member is talking about the security guard when we are talking about trained health personnel.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the health post was opened in 2013 and that the Government is yet to send trained personnel there. On the other hand, the hon. Member of Parliament is saying that the health post is not fully operational. That is why a security guard has been employed to man the place. What is the correct position concerning this health post?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West cannot say that nothing is happening at the health post because the clinic was opened. I want to thank the area hon. Member of Parliament for his initiative to recruit the security guard.

I thank you, Sir.



69.     Mr Sichalwe (Chawama) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what measures  the Government would take to ensure a smooth flow of traffic at the Kafue/Chawama and Kafue/Makeni junctions in view of the numerous shopping malls around the area; and

(b)    when the measures would be implemented.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the developer of Cosmopolitan Mall was tasked with the responsibility to carry out a traffic impact assessment just like the other developers did before opening their malls to the public. The developer has since proposed that the mall be accessed using four gates to be located along Chipwenupwenu Road, Chawama Road and two on Kafue Road.

Sir, the developers have also proposed additional improvements to the Kafue and Chawama Road geometry near the mall in order to improve the flow of traffic. The original lay out plan will be modified to suit the changes which are yet to be concluded with the developer. Discussions are still on-going with the Lusaka City Council (LCC).

Mr Speaker, the roads around the Makeni/Chawama Junction have been improved to offer more options of travel. For instance, Lilayi Road has been rehabilitated under the Link Lusaka 400 (L400) Road Project to link Kafue Road to Libala South, Chilenje, Kabwata and Woodlands. The Kafue service lanes have also been tarred, thereby improving their service levels and reducing traffic on Kafue Road. The road to York Farm and Mariandale has also been rehabilitated to link Chipwenupwenu Road, thereby creating a by-pass to Chawama Road.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the road to York Farm has been rehabilitated under the L400 Road Project, thereby creating links to Chipwenupwenu Road and a by-pass to Chawama Road. 

Mr Speaker, Cosmopolitan Mall is not yet operational and the revised interventions to the development of the mall are yet to be approved.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the people of Chawama appreciate the numerous road works that are going on in the constituency. The people are also happy that the L400 Road Project has been approved and is on-going. They are equally happy about the construction of the Cosmopolitan Shopping Mall, which will be one of the biggest malls in the country and will attract a huge flow of traffic. In view of this, would the hon. Minister not consider constructing a fly-over bridge using the private-public partnerships (PPP)?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, currently, we are consulting on the best way forward. If that turns out to be the best option, then, that is the way we shall go.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, why are you saying that you will only take that route if it turns out to be the best when the hon. Member of Parliament is talking about a social service which does not generate income? How do you expect the private sector to go into that private-public partnership (PPP)? Do you understand what you are talking about?


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, withdraw that comment.

Mr Mweetwa: I withdraw it, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm to the House, at the moment, what mode of financing will be used for such a project. There are various options we are considering and the PPP is one of them.

Thank you, Sir.


70.     Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to promote the production of biofuel from sugarcane, cassava, palm oil switch grass and related plants; and

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to promote the production of biofuel from crops such as sugarcane and cassava. Feasibility studies have been conducted at Luena Farming Block in Kawambwa where the growing of sugarcane and cassava has been found to be viable. Biofuel is expected to be produced from sugarcane.

Mr Speaker, switch grass is a warm season bunch grass native to North America. No farmers grow it in Zambia.

The Government is promoting the participation of the private sector in the production of biofuel. For instance, some investors have made inquiries to go into sugarcane and cassava production in Luena Farming Block in Kawambwa District. It is expected that the private investors will produce biofuel from sugarcane and cassava.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I expected the hon. Minister to complete his answer by stating the period when the production of biofuel will start, instead of just saying that the production is expected to start. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that the investors expedite their investment programme in biofuel production as well as attract more investors to the sector? 
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to rise on a point of order. As you have seen, I have just walked into the Chamber. I think God is on my side because the point of order that I am raising lies squarely on the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and the hon. Minister is in the process of answering a question. So, this may just be the opportune time for this country to be assisted through your leadership.

Mr Speaker, I have just come from Mazabuka where I was summoned by the constituency to hear cries regarding loss of employment. About 500 people in both Mazabuka and partially Monze are faced with dismissal on account of their employers, who are dairy farmers, failing to operate. The reasons the dairy farmers are failing to operate relate to the issue I raised on a point of order on the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in one of the meetings of the House. Unfortunately, I was ridiculed by the public because I brought a dressed chicken into this House. 

Mr Speaker, people’s jobs are threatened because the Government has permitted the importation of pasteurised milk from Poland. I am sure those who have studied geography know how far Poland is from Zambia. We are also aware that in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region, there are certain protocols and treaties that permit inter-regional trade.

Sir, I have with me, a packet of milk which I will lay on the Table.

Mr Nkombo produced a packet of milk.

Mr Nkombo: This packet of milk is written “Low fat, long life, UHT processed milk”. The milk is made in Poland and specifically produced for Shoprite Checkers, South Africa. This packet of milk you see has more than caused misery to the dairy farmers in this country. As I was travelling here, I heard my colleague, Hon. Mtolo, lament the infants’ product industry and those that benefit from its value chain.

Sir, is the Government in order to allow a thing like this, which can be avoided, to happen when our country is undergoing serious economic difficulties? If the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was here, I would have laid this packet of milk in front of him. Since he is not here, I will put it here for you to scrutinise and, maybe, inform the House whether the Government is in order to continue buying milk not only from Europe but also further in Poland.

Mr Nkombo laid the packet of milk on the Table.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that, first and foremost, the hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, who was in the process of responding to a question, cannot and should not respond to the point of order impromptly. It would not be fair to do that. The most appropriate way to proceed is to file in a question of an urgent nature which I will process and forward to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock that will come back with a response. You need an informed response to a matter of this nature. It is not a matter that can be dissolved or disposed of in a summary fashion. 

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Mr Speaker: Well, the product will be released to you in due course. There are people here who will release it to you.


Mr Speaker: They need to record certain information about it. You have my assurance that you will get it back later.


Mr Speaker: Did you finish your question, hon. Member for Kalabo Central?

Mr Miyutu: Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I assumed so.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm exactly when the production of biofuel is going to start. Suffice it to say that some of the measures that the Government is putting in place are meant to encourage the private sector to produce. We have already carried out research and have discovered that we can start producing sugarcane and cassava in Luena, which would eventually be used to produce biofuel.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I have learnt that biofuel can be produced from sugarcane …

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order.

Mr Speaker, we were all elected Members of Parliament to serve. In the last meeting of the House, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing distributed letters to all hon. Members, giving reasons for the non receipt of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Some of us have since exhausted our funds in the CDF account. I would like to state that the performance of the Government in my constituency hinges on my performance. 

Mr Speaker is the hon. Minster in order not to state when the 2014 and 2015 CDF will be released. This is June, 2015. I want to work …


Mr Namulambe: This is October, 2015.

Ms Kalima: This is almost October, 2015. Is the hon. Minister in order not to inform us when we are going to receive the CDF because we need to work in our constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: A similar, if not identical, point of order was raised last week and, in response, I issued a directive that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing comes to the House this week to issue a ministerial statement. So, I expect that the directive will be complied with. The hon. Minister should issue a statement on the disbursement of the 2014 and 2015 CDF for avoidance of doubt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, before the point of order, I was saying that I just learnt that we can make bio-fuel from sugarcane and cassava. In his response, the hon. Minister said that the investment in both crops is going to go to Luena in the northern part of the country.

Mr Speaker, coincidentally, it so happens that the Luena that this House is familiar with,  that is Luena Constituency, also has capacity to produce both sugarcane and cassava. In the spirit of equity, can the Government not split the production of the two crops? If they have decided to give sugarcane to the other Luena, can they give cassava production to the Luena in the Western Province so that the people of Luena, which is in Limulunga District, can also reap benefits from this investment? Why do they always take development to the Luena in the northern part of the country?

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock whether, even on an out grower basis, …

Mr Speaker: I think you have made your point.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, let me say that the Government promotes the growth of various crops and cassava and sugar are some of them. These are crops that we can make bio-fuels from. First of all, cassava and sugar can be produced anywhere. In fact, Nakambala Sugar Estates has capacity to produce bio-fuels except that they have chosen not to take that path. So, if cassava and sugarcane can be grown in the so-called main Luena, it is the Government’s duty to woo the private sector into the production of bio-fuel.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the Government …

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I have been compelled to rise on this point of order because I have seen no action from the Executive.

Mr Speaker, voting is one of the main tenets of democracy. All citizens must be allowed to vote when they attain the age of 18. Unfortunately, the situation at the moment is still as I said before the House went on recess. A certain section of the country, namely North-Western and probably Southern and Western provinces, have not been allowed to obtain national registration cards (NRCs) before obtaining voter cards. What do you call them?

Mr Ntundu: Voters’ cards.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, voters’ cards.

Mr Speaker, this is certainly disfranchising the majority of young men and women who would like to vote next year. 

Mr Speaker, given this situation, is the Government in order to keep quiet and not inform the country why there is a schedule which is deliberately disfranchising the majority of the people of Zambia in next year’s election.

Mr Speaker, I ask for your serious decision or ruling.

Hon. Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: This subject was addressed quite at length last week on Friday. I recall we spent a good one hour on it in the question and answer session with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. I am not too sure whether the concern you are raising was not really covered then. Nonetheless,  I would invite you to get the transcript through the Office of the Clerk. Go through the transcript and see whether or not your concerns were addressed in that long question and answer session. If, for any reason, you establish that your concerns were not covered by that long discourse, my doors are open. You can file in a question and we shall forward it to the relevant Minister to respond to your concerns.

That is my ruling.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the Government has had plans to promote the production of bio-fuels. I am aware that the growing of jatropha was promoted and many farmers in Mpongwe grew this crop. I remember, in 2009, I visited a farm for Mr Thompson somewhere in Kabangwe area and an entrepreneur in Kalingalinga who were trying to process bio-fuel from jatropha. Have you taken interest to look at their plans to see how jatropha growing can contribute to the production of bio-fuels because most farmers are finding it difficult to sell their produce?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken time to look at what has happened in the past as regards jatropha production. Scholars and researchers …


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Monde: Sir, there was excitement among scholars, researchers and farmers when it was discovered that jatropha could be used to produce bio-fuels. I also recall a similar question in the last meeting of the House. However, the position of the ministry is that research into the viability of jatropha as a raw material for bio-fuels should continue. Otherwise, it may turn out to be a failed project.

The ministry will inquire further in order to put together what is required and ensure production.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, bio-fuels that are produced from foods like cassava and sugar cane can have an effect on food security. The hon. Minister has stated that research has been conducted on bio-fuels. What are the results of the research indicating? What mitigating factors have you have put in place to ensure that you sustain …

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr. Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry I have such a croaky voice as a result of the flu that I have, but I have been compelled to stand on this point of order.

Sir, in today’s The Post newspaper, the President of the Zambia National Farmers’ Union has talked about the possibility of fertiliser costing as much as K419 per 50 kg bag. We have also learnt, from the Government, that 70 per cent of D Compound fertiliser has been distributed to various districts.

 Mr Speaker, as one of the many representatives of rural constituencies, I wish to bring to the attention of the House that there is confusion as to what the price of fertiliser will be. Further, how can farmers plan with this uncertainty in their contribution under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) when they have been finding it difficult to contribute even a K50 towards a 50 kg bag of fertiliser? 
Sir, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock in order not to come to this House to issue a comprehensive statement to clear the air because Zambia is predominantly an agricultural nation, particularly in the rural areas?

Sir, I seek your ruling.

Mr Speaker: I can only wish you a quick recovery.


Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is actually scheduled to issue a statement on the distribution of inputs. In that regard, I presume that you will have an opportunity to listen to him and, as usual, follow-up with questions on points of clarification. So, that matter will be dealt with tomorrow.

The hon. Member for Senanga may continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, may I just paraphrase my question. Is there a policy in place on bio-fuels in this country?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I may not state categorically whether or not there is a policy on bio-fuels. If there is a policy, it should come from the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development. Therefore, let me limit my response thus far.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 




(Debate resumed)

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to add the voice of the people of Luena to the debate on the speech presented to the House by the President on the occasion of the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, when I listened to the issues that the President covered in his statement, I noted that I had expressed concern about them before, either on the Floor of this House or elsewhere. For example, he covered issues such as the sustainability of the requirement to build houses for former Presidents; the improvement of productivity; the change of mindset among us Zambians in whatever capacity we are and the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy” Campaign. I will later come back to the issue of the change of mindset which he has called transformation. 

Mr Speaker, there is a famous quotation by an anonymous writer which states: “A journey of a thousand kilometres starts with one step.”

Dr Kalila: That was Chairman Mao Tse-Tung!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I am addressing myself to the document. The President’s Speech is about a vision. It is a dream in which he sees Zambia fifty or so years from now.  There is nothing wrong with having a vision or a dream. In fact, if you do not have a vision or dream, then you are not alive. 

Sir, as a scholar of Success Management Institute International (SMII), I just want to share with fellow hon. Members that it is important for anybody to dream and to have a vision. In this light, I want to quote the founder of SMII, Mr John Mayer, who says: “Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire and consistently work at, will surely come to pass.”

Mr Speaker, this is a vision that should have been envisioned fifty years ago or so. Some countries that have made progress from where they were fifty years ago, when Zambia got its Independence, were once worse off than Zambia, but they are now far ahead of us. One of those countries is Singapore, and the President mentioned it in his speech. The Asian Tigers such as South Korea and India had a vision, and they worked towards achieving it. That is why they are where they are today. Their success was not born out of serendipity, but a vision. The vision they had for their countries put them where they are today because they worked on them.

Mr Speaker, I do not know whether I have mentioned before that when I was a young student, I watched on the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) a Commonwealth Conference that was held in London in 1977. Many Heads of State attended that conference. Two young Presidents at that conference impressed me. One was Michael Manley of Jamaica, and the other was Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore. They impressed me because of the way they spoke about the visions of their countries. Therefore, I am not surprised that Singapore is where it is today. 

Mr Speaker, this vision that the President spoke about should be translated into practical strategies so that we can take our country forward. Let me go to the theme of the President’s Speech which reads, “Embracing a Transformational Culture for a Smart Zambia Now.” You have to be very careful with the punctuation because if the punctuation is not right, you can read the sentence wrongly. I will give a humorous example. Do not put punctuation, just read it the way it is. Somebody said, “Woman without her man is nothing.” This sentence was given to men and the men read it as follows, “Woman, without her man, is nothing.” This sentence means that a woman is nothing without her man. This sentence was given to the women, and the women put it as follows, “Woman, without her, man is nothing.”


Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the theme, “Embracing a Transformational Culture for a Smart Zambia Now” means that we do not have a smart Zambia now, but the transformation of our culture for a smart Zambia should start now. What do we mean by transformation?  Transforming something means converting or changing it. We need to change our mindset. Everybody needs to change their mindset. All of us need to transform ourselves. We should change our mindset; the Executive needs to change their mindset; the civil servants need to change their mindset; we, the legislators, need to change our mindset; and the ordinary citizens need to change their mindset if this dream is to be realised.  

Mr Speaker, the President mentioned that the Public Order Act is going to change. I can assure this House that even if the Public Order Act changed, we will still have problems if the police are not going to change their mindset. So, we need to change. All of us need to change. The police high command, need to change their mindset. All the people in the Intelligence Unit need to change their mindset. Even when the Public Order Act will be changed, the police will still come to round us up as Opposition political parties, and tell us that we have no permit to hold meetings during elections or at any other time. There is no need to harass us using the Public Order Act even in its current form. However, people are reading things which are not there in the Public Order Act? Why? It is because of their mindset. 

Mr Speaker, during campaigns, I kept crisscrossing with land cruisers carrying officers from the Intelligence Unit. At night, they ferried maize and other logistics for the Ruling Party.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Imenda: That is not good. They should change their mindset. We are in a democratic dispensation. We are not in a One-Party State like we were during the United National Party for Independence (UNIP) era. 

Mr Speaker, the Civil Service has played a major role in the running down of our economy. How many audit queries do we have in our records for the House? Financial impropriety and other wrong doings have been reported. However, what has happened to those reports? How about the issuance of licences or work permits? Today, somebody was talking about work permits and things like that. Not all work permits are issued properly. They are issued corruptly. We need to change our mindset if we are to develop our country. Otherwise, this dream is just going to remain a day dream. 

Mr Speaker, the Executive is mostly to blame for the current state of our economy. Why? I will give you reasons. The unprecedented number of election petitions costs a lot of money. They were followed by an unprecedented number of by-elections. The recalling and redeployment of diplomats costs money. The unprecedented appointment of hon. Deputy Ministers, creation of ministries and districts, and so on and so forth, cost a lot of money. The people in the Executive should change their mindset. I thought you came to this House to serve the Zambian people, but you seem to have come here to serve your pockets.  Let us change our mindset. Let us do it for the betterment of our country. Some of the people at the Backbench are waiting for an appointment and, because of that, they cannot advise the President. They cannot advise the Executive properly because they are job hunting. The Executive, through the Patriotic Front (PF), is giving people money to entice them to join the PF. There is so much vote buying during elections. Now, you are wondering why we are in this situation. There is no money. We have just received our payslips today. Why? Where has the money gone?


Ms Imenda: You know where the money has gone.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, workers also need to change their mindset. We, the legislators, need to change our mindset. If a progressive Motion or Bill is brought to this House, let us support it be it whether or not it is from the Opposition. Let us not refuse to support it simply because we think our colleagues have caucused. That is not good. 

Mr Speaker, let me quickly touch on the issue of productivity. On page 37 of the speech, the President talked about the Transformation Agenda which requires worker productivity to improve significantly and calls for a change in work culture. 

Sir, some people wonder what this animal called productivity is. I am glad that the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security is in the House. The House will recall that when the issue of the minimum wage came up, my question, on the Floor of this House, was how can you put a cart before the horse? You cannot implement the minimum wage before looking at productivity improvement. 

Mr Speaker, productivity is the relationship between output generated by a process and input. It is the efficient use of capital, land, labour, information and so on and so forth. Therefore, high productivity means that one is accomplishing a higher output with the same level of input. During the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, there was very low productivity. For instance, the Super Baking Company produced the same number of loaves of bread, but employing more and more people because of socialism. 

Mr Speaker, currently, there are lot of strikes going on. Workers are complaining that the Chinese baletupela utundalama utunono. Sorry, Sir.


Mr Speaker: What are you referring to? 

Ms Imenda: Workers are complaining about how little the Chinese are paying them. If workers increase productivity, they will be paid accordingly. We cannot be producing very little then run to the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security for support. 

Mr Speaker, I am glad that the President included productivity improvement in his speech and that the Government has established the Kaizen Institute (looking at Hon. Shamenda).  

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, are you still addressing me? 

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I am addressing the House through you. 

Mr Speaker: Yes. 

Ms Imenda: Is it because I am looking at him? It is him who is pointing at me. I am not even responding to him but simply talking about us. 


Mr Speaker: Who?

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, this is all about productivity and it is very important. 

Mr Speaker, during the time of the late President Mwanawasa, productivity improvement was an issue. I remember attending a workshop at which one educated gallant son of Zambia, Dr Peter Machungwa, who understood productivity, told us that if we did not improve productivity as a country, we would be relegated to a dumping site, a situation we are seeing now. Look at our kwacha? Is it anything to talk about? 

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Ms Imenda: Like I said earlier, I am talking to the document. 

Mr Speaker, the other issue I would like to address is the teaching of mathematics and science. Again, the problem is our attitude. We have very few scientists and mathematicians in this country. Do you know, Sir, that the Zambia Centre for Accountancy Studies (ZCAS) has closed its Taxation Department because our children do not want to study taxation, claiming that it is too difficult? 

I think that we should have an institute of taxation so that the Treasury can have experts who can probe into transfer pricing and tax havens. Money which is supposed to come to the Treasury is slipping through because we do not have tax experts, and yet we are dealing with multinational corporations and enterprises that have these issues. Teachers of mathematics are very important and we should take this matter seriously. 

Mr Speaker, looking at the time, I would like to conclude by talking about the prayer and fasting that is scheduled for some time in October. I like the prayer part, but I am very concerned about the Government and the Church becoming bedfellows. This is because I am reminded of what happened during the time of Emperor Constantine when the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Let us leave religious matters to the Church and let the Government deal with governance issues ... 

Ms Imenda: … because, one day, you shall have a leader who, like Mr Idi Amin, will use the police to enforce a religious practice. 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the Motion of Thanks on the President’s Speech.  

Sir, I think that it is only befitting to welcome the three hon. Members of Parliament who joined us recently. To them, I say welcome to this place called Parliament. I wish you a long stay here. 

Mr Speaker, I listened to the President’s Speech and I made my own impressions. I interrogated the speech and the first thing I noticed was the volume. The speech is quite bulky compared to most of the speeches I have read and listened to, save for the controversial one by the late President Sata, which was in two parts. 

Mr Speaker, on page 2 of the speech, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, referred to the late President as: 

“A gallant leader who served the people of Zambia selflessly and with great passion. His legacy lives on.” 

The President also honoured two hon. Members of Parliament, the late Hon. Mwanza and Hon. Matafwali, who were both friends of mine, and I join him in that regard. 

Mr Speaker, this document is satirical in some parts. One would actually imagine that the President’s Speech was a shift from one policy regime to another, and yet he said that the legacy of President Michael Sata, may his soul rest in peace, lives on. In 2011, when the late President Michael Sata came to this House, his number one task was to shrink Cabinet positions. He reduced them by compacting them and we all applauded that, knowing that he was working towards a lean Cabinet.

President Edgar Lungu says that the legacy of Mr Michael Sata lives on, but he creates five more ministries. One would wonder if they are listening correctly. I am quite certain that all hon. Members in this House did their mathematics by adding and subtracting the splitting of hairs. Now, the Ministry of Works and Supply and the Ministry of Transport and Communications stand separated. This, in itself, means that the overhead cost goes up because we need a fully-fledged Minister and a fully-fledged human resource department to deal with these two ministries. I think that there is a departure by the President but he laced it by saying that the legacy of the late old man lives on, probably, because he thought we were slightly sleeping. I think the legacy of the late President Michael Chilufya Sata died on that day. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there is a saying that goes, “Show me your friends, and I will show you your character.” Look at the complexion of the Cabinet and the people on your right hand side. I hasten to think that miraculously, if the old man rose from the dead and just peeped at what happened, it would be disastrous. He would be shocked to see that those that ripped his speech and those that lifted their middle fingers towards his administration were sitting right in the epicentre of the administration of President Edgar Lungu. That is the satire that I am speaking about. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the President spoke about violence during by-elections. At one point, I was convinced that the many incidences that I do not want to refer to in detail, the arrests in Livingstone, were associated with President Michael Sata. I was actually wrong. Then, I started recollecting that at the time I was incarcerated by the Ministry of Home Affairs, it was President Edgar Lungu who was in power. Then I say, “Oh my God!” When Hon. Silvia Masebo was taken up to the police, it was President Edgar Lungu who was in power. Then, I said, “Okay, this issue of intolerance, gun wielding Patriotic Front (PF) cadres and shooting people in cold blood is under the nose of President Edgar Lungu. In this document, the President says that the Inspector-General of Police must strictly enforce new measures to prevent violence during elections. The law simply needs to be enforced. You do not need to come up with innovative ways of enforcing it. We have seen how suddenly what is good for the gander is not good for the goose. 

Mr Speaker, in the PF, those who are now being directed to find the means to enforce the prevention of crime can be equated to the Dracula being the head of the blood bank. You cannot give the Dracula to look after blood because he will finish it. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the police are totally partisan. Part of the mindset that my colleague was speaking about only applies to certain people. The Americans say, “If it ain’t broken, do not fix it.” There must be an overall transformation even for those who are thinking correctly. Now, if those who are thinking correctly must change their mindset, we will have mayhem. We need to do some introspection. Those of you who will require mental or mindset shift should do it now so that you can be in tandem with all of us who are thinking straight. Those of us who do not think that tribalism is a matter, should change our mindset. 

Mr Speaker, I was shocked to hear the President say that he hears about tribalism every day. I do not hear about it every day, but I can tell you that there have been comments that relate to tribalism. I can tell you that during the campaign of President Edgar Lungu, a certain Bishop who was awarded with a Chairmanship of a board not so long ago, called one of the political leaders a Satanist. That is hate speech. I actually saw him on television today. The President said that we must try and avoid hate speech and tribalism. 

Mr Speaker, the Secretary-General for the PF says to some of us who are Tongas, “Go and have children if you want to reign in this country one day.” I am actually monogamous. There was mayhem in this country because people rose. You heard about the Chuundu chaitwa. Chundu chaitwa should not have taken place if it was not for the recklessness of speeches by people in leadership. We all know that the President was summoned to a meeting in Livingstone and some of the colleagues were there. They told us about what happened. The matter was not resolved there. To add salt to injury, when the President, the one who is calling for reconciliation came, he said, “What is wrong with one being called by who they are?” That sat in very badly in some of us who are Tongas. It was because of him talking about tribalism that I started reminding myself of the injury that he caused by simply saying, “What is wrong with calling a spade a spade?” That was the same person who said those words. 

Mr Speaker, I am talking about the top leadership of the people who are in the driving seat of this country. As if that were not enough, a lady, who was here no so long ago, called us kachemas. This lady has a reputation of fighting. The other day, it was me who stopped her from fighting just outside the lobby here. 


Mr Nkombo: Sir, kachemas are headsmen. I am a proud kachema. They called us kachemas which is derogatory where they come from. As if that were not enough, when the President was campaigning for the hon. Member for Malambo, my ba sebele, since we share children who do not matter, …


Mr Speaker: Order! 

Just continue delivering your speech.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, when President Lungu was campaigning for Hon. Shuma, he said, “Wako ni wako.”

Mr Sikazwe: Imwe, tamulanda ifyo?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Member, just pause. Let us avoid those running commentaries. 

Mr Sikazwe walked out of the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Nkombo: Can I continue, Sir?

Mr Speaker: Continue.

Mr Nkombo: Thank you for your protection, Sir. I will repeat what I said. I know it is painful to bring out the truth, but the President said, “Wako ni wako.” That is the epitome of nepotism, tribalism and everything that is associated with favouring your own blood; the deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) tag. That day, the President sat where you are seated, Sir, and said that he abhors tribalism. Sitting in my chair, how do I believe the Head of State when he says that especially that there is this donchi kubeba, which I am proposing that we just make it institutional here not to interpret it because we all know what it means? It is deceit of the highest order. This is where you say one thing in the day and you do the opposite in the night. I have doubts about the call for the President for all political leaders to join him in this reconciliation process. Charity begins at home. We know how much mayhem there is in the PF. Let them close themselves in a room and reconcile first. I can bet you, Sir, everything will fall into place because when you have a divided leadership, the people perish.

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Nguni ino ooyo?

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, I am concerned about the manner in which the hon. Member on the Floor is debating. Is he in order to mislead the nation and this House by interpreting wako ni wako as meaning blood relation when it can even mean people from the same party? In the case that he is referring to, wako ni wako was used during the campaigns in Malambo and the people who stood there were both easterners. So, if he says that the President said wako ni wako to mean same blood relations, it does not make sense. Wako ni wako could even be interpreted as people from the same party. 

Is he in order to mislead the nation, Mr Speaker?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that at this juncture, let us listen to whoever is debating. I use these words advisedly. Whoever is debating refers to either the left or right. When I give the Floor to anybody from the left, please, seize that opportunity to respond to the specific issues and debate accordingly. If I permit debates through points of order, we shall not make progress.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In any event, our rules do not permit debates through points of order. If you have reservations, exceptions, different views, different opinions, interpretations or nuances, rise and I will give you an opportunity to speak.

Mr Nkombo: I am delighted when you make rulings that way.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Another point of order is raised. This is last point of order I will allow. I have said before, and you can see how it is working out, you are disturbing his train of thought. So, this is the last point of order that I will allow.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, Hon. Sikazwe, who walked out of the House a few minutes ago, made a running commentary while Hon. Nkombo was debating and you were passing a ruling. Before you could finish making your ruling, he walked out. 

Is he in order to behave in that manner while you were still making a ruling?

Mr Speaker: I was not making a ruling. A ruling is in response to a point of order. I was counselling and I constantly counsel. Even yesterday, I spent a lot of time counselling. As long as you continue with these running commentaries, we will not make progress. I am supposed to be listening and enjoying the debates, but I am not. I am now the focus and spending so much valuable time on making rulings. The people want to listen to solutions to their predicament. They have entrusted you, as representatives, to contrive solutions. The President came here with different views on those solutions and so on and so forth. However, that is the subject of the debate. I am not enjoying this constant intercession. So, to make progress, there will be no more points of order.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: If there is any disorder of any sort, I will take responsibility for it. I do not need anybody’s assistance.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am impressed. You and I can make a deal that now …

Hon. Government Members: Question!


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, just continue from where you left.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the President made a remark of wako ni wako and I was told that it did not make sense. Depending on where one is seated, we see the world differently. I accept the comment from my younger sister whom I am very much in love with.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the President spoke about the energy crisis and I expected him to come up with solutions. Again, I want to say that the President was less truthful …

Ms Kabanshi: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … when he addressed this issue because he is not affected by the load shedding.

Mr Speaker: Address the Chair, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I have been to State House before, during the time of Presidents Chiluba and Mwanawasa. There is a big generator there. So, the President was less truthful when he said that he suffers from a similar predicament of load shedding at State House because it does not happen. All that happened was that his joy was killed when he was about to watch a football match.


Mr Nkombo: However, let us flip the coin and address the real situation on our hands which affects the barber and salon operator. Those people need many kilowatts of power in order for them to pay school fees for their children, water and electricity bills and travel to and from their places of work and not to watch soccer.

Sir, the Secretary General for the PF came to my right and said, “Look, those who are responsible …”

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, avoid referring to people who are not here. They will not have an opportunity to respond, …

Mr Nkombo: I take your counsel, Sir.

Mr Speaker: … and it is not fair.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, one of the PF leaders …


Mr Nkombo: … was agitated and demanded that the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development and the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Managing Director (MD) face the cane as a result of killing the President’s joy of watching soccer.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It actually happened and the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development said, “Nalafileka elyo mwalalusa,” meaning, “I will stop, then, you will lose.” 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, confusion resides in the PF. People are agitated and they have daggers drawn against one other. We do not need to reconcile with anybody because they are our friends and brothers. On their own, let them reconcile. When they have reconciled, they must come and tell us the result of their reconciliation.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: In the meantime, we are looking for solutions to the energy crisis.


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, it is on the Floor of this House where the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development indicated that he would incorporate some Members on our side to help him deal with the issue of the energy crisis, shortly before the House went on recess in the last meeting. The PF just talk and do nothing.

Sir, the President also addressed the issue of street children. I was shocked when he said that street children must be taken to the Zambia National Service (ZNS).


Mr Nkombo: That gave me an indication that he is totally out of touch with the realities of this country. There are street children who are three years old. What skills can you teach a two, three or four year old who stands at the traffic lights asking for alms? When Hon. Namugala was in charge of community development, she almost got to the tipping point of resolving the issue of street children.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is a fact. Those who were street children during her time are now adults. We cannot account for them because we do not know where they are. However, I am just emphasising my point because the President said that we should take infants to the ZNS for skills training. The hon. Minister and I can go to Manda Hill and we will find children asking for alms, …

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: … but my point is that we have to find solutions. We must come to terms with reality because most of the street children are cosmetic. I conducted a study and scanned through hospital mortuaries to see if there were unclaimed bodies of street children, but found none. This means that the street children have families. What has broken down in this country is the family structure and that is what is burnt out, yalungula. 


Mr Nkombo: That is the fundamental problem that we need to sort out. We need to enact a law which should state that if you are found with a child who is loitering, you will be charged. In South America, there was a crazy President, and to deal with the issue of street kids – unfortunately we cannot do that here – he issued a threat that if a child was seen on the streets, they would shoot them like they did with stray dogs. They all went back home.


Mr Nkombo: I challenge all the 158 hon. Members to tell me if any one of them has attended a funeral of a street child. They all have families, but it is the family system that has degenerated and broken down. We need to fix that and not send them to the ZNS. You cannot teach any skills to a five year old whose brain is not yet fully developed.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I think the President meant well when he spoke about food and agriculture except that he did not address the problem of lack of exports that we have been facing, as a country, for a long time. Botswana exports premium beef into the region and intercontinental markets. If you went to a restaurant in London and ordered a club steak, you would realise that it would not taste as nice as a Zambian steak. Why do we import vegetables and fruits?

Mr Speaker, the President spoke about sanitary and phytosanitary conditions and the improvement of the same. I think the answers are within ourselves. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock should now work tirelessly to make sure that we meet the phytosanitary sanitary conditions so that we can export. 

Sir, the reason the value of the kwacha has burnt, yalungula, is that our balance of payment is not correct. When we put the net invoices and returns, you will discover that we are not exporting enough. Although we have the capacity and the potential to export beef, we are not utilising that.

 Mr Speaker, just now, I bought a packet of milk and I have submitted a question in relation to what I am talking about. I hope it will appear on the Order Paper within this meeting because it is being processed.

Sir, it is really disheartening to see that you cannot improve a value chain, whereby you are able to produce milk but go to Poland where the Pope comes from to go and buy milk. By doing that, it means that you are creating jobs for the Polish while you are denying your own citizens jobs. People are losing jobs where I come because this Government has agreed to import milk from Poland. It is an abomination.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha  (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech.

 Sir,   when I heard the President speak on the Opening of the 5th Session of the 11th National Assembly, it gave me an impression that the President has realised a number of things that should be dealt with.

Sir, on Page 72 of his speech, the President clearly speaks about the need for Zambia to turn to God; Jehovah El Shaddai; the all conquering God; the righteous God; the one who provides wisdom in order for us, as Zambians, to come out of the problem that we have created for ourselves. Therefore, I thought the speech had a way to turn many eyes and hearts to the plight of this country called Zambia because the river of God runs through this nation.

Mr Speaker, we are supposed to have many wonderful things because the river of God runs through this nation. We are supposed to have many blessings and much more unity and peace as opposed to what we are seeing today.

Mr Mbulu: Hear, hear! 

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha : Mr Speaker, my understanding is that the President is asking the people of Zambia to seek God in the many issues that are affecting the nation. I believe he is genuine because you cannot do donchi kubeba with God.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, in other words, you cannot deceive God. Anybody who wants to deceive God will not succeed because God has the power to take their lives. Therefore, I believe that the President is genuine by declaring 18th October, 2015, a day of prayer and fasting. I, therefore, agree with him and I am delighted. 

Mr Speaker, probably for me, this is the best part of the speech because this is where the President has realised that he cannot solve the problem for this nation unless he turns to God’s wisdom and the nation turns to seeking God. Then, the problem will be resolved.

Sir, the President touched many areas such as envy, hate and I wish he could have added more to that list to include prostitution, adultery and the stealing of money in the Government.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I say so because we are going to pray and fast on 18th of October, 2015. In our prayers on that day, we must ask God to give us solutions to the problems of the country. As we prepare ourselves to go before the Holy God, we, too, must be holy in order for him to answer because God answers only on his conditions and not on the conditions of man. It is not that He will not answer because our conditions are bad or poor, no. He will answer on his conditions. 

Sir, today, there is war in Syria and turmoil in Libya because those are the conditions of man. Man creates conditions, but God wants to answer on His conditions.  His conditions are very clear for Zambia with the first to maximise right living.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech talks about transformation. Right living can only come when we humble ourselves before the true living God and say that we need to change. The apex of the entire Presidential Speech is for us to ask God to help us solve our problems because these problems are big and not small.

Sir, there has never been a time when Zambia has gone to a point where its kwacha has dropped close to K14 as it was the case yesterday. I do not know what it is like today, but it is getting worse. It is, therefore, important for us to understand that we must repent and turn to God. We cannot continue to the same route that we have been before. 

Yes, the President has spoken and I think his thinking is that we must turn away from the course that we have been going through in order for us to achieve what is important for our country and how best we can move our country forward.

Mr Speaker, the President spoke on the need for us to have a country that is going to be left to posterity. How can this happen? 

Sir, in Bemba, there is a saying that goes, “Ichalo lifupa, uyu akokotako, uyu alishya.” This means that this country is just a bone and each one of us is going to bite at it and leave it, but will never finish eating it. Therefore, when the President thought to seek God in resolving the problems of this country, I believe that he is doing the right thing. It is important for us to support the President who has turned and wants to seek God in order to seek solutions in this country. I think the President needs our support.

 Mr Speaker, why do I say so? First of all, the support must come from Her Honour the Vice- President, hon. Cabinet Ministers and all hon. Deputy Ministers. The question is that how do you support him. Let me give an analogy.

Sir, when I was hon. Minister, my hon. Colleagues in the Mwanawasa Administration, each time we went to speak with the President and if you agree with him and said, “Yes, Your Excellency, this is good, it is fantastic and this is what we must do Your Excellency.” At the end of the discussion, he would say to you, “Then, you are useless to me because you are not giving me a different opinion in order for me to make a decision. So, why are you my Cabinet Minister?|” He would ask you that question. All that he wanted was an interaction where you would tell him what was not good and what was good. For example, he wanted us to tell him that if he took certain decisions, it would not help the country. The late President wanted to hear that. President Lungu would also want to hear that from his Cabinet Ministers in order for him to take the right direction and the best way to govern this country. Therefore, they must be prepared to lose their jobs if he does not want them in Cabinet.

Mr Speaker, we should not agree to anything that the President says even when he is making mistakes. We are here to advise him. God uses the Cabinet Ministers to help the President run the country. This is why the President is saying we should seek God and he will help us by giving us wisdom to solve the problems that this country is faced with. However, for that to happen, there must be maximised right living among us all. Maximised right living means that every member of the Cabinet, who is working with the President, should not go for prayer and fasting on 18th October, 2015 without confessing hi/her sins first. If we go before God without first confessing our sins, we shall not get what we want from him.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Confess and repeat.

Lt-Gen Bishop Shikapwasha: Sir, for God to answer our prayers, we must all repent. If you are an hon. Minister and you misappropriated Government funds, repent before God. Ask him to forgive you so that, as a nation, we can receive that which we ask from God. That is what I mean when I talk about right living. The day of prayer and fasting should not just a show. We want answers when we pray to God, and the only way our prayers can be answered is by repenting our sins and asking God to forgive us. When I say all of us, I mean the hon. Ministers, hon. Deputy Ministers, hon. Members of Parliament and the rest of the citizenry.

Mr Speaker, things are going wrong in many areas. Many people have been injured. The country is in fear because there is so much violence during by-elections. We wonder why voters are not going to cast their votes. It is because they are scared. They also know the outcome of an election before they cast their vote. That is not democracy. Democracy entails people choosing what they want. People should decide whom they want to be their President. They should also decide whom they want to be Minister and Member of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, the President has sought the face of God by declaring 18th October, 2015, as a day of prayer and fasting. Indeed, we shall all go and pray. However, should this prayer and fasting not go beyond what the President has said? Should this not be an opportunity for other places, and not just Lusaka, to play a part in praying for the nation? Let others also participate in this event. Let the hon. Ministers go to the countryside and assemble with the people for prayers, and not just the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Lusaka.

Sir, right living is important for this country to come out of the quagmire that it is in. We need to live right before God if we are going to address the country’s financial issues. Many people are complaining about some of Members from the Patriotic Front Members. They are saying that the Members did not have the billions of kwacha that they have before, but are now driving expensive cars such as hummers. It is important for us to live right because we are models to other people. Hon. Ministers should live exemplary lives in order to transform the country. The only one who can transform us, if we surrender ourselves before Him, is God. That is what the President has done by declaring a day of prayer and fasting.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the day that the President has set aside for prayer and fasting. We must pray under the conditions of God, Himself. We must thank Him for what He has done, what He is doing and what He is going to do. We must praise and magnify Him in order for Him to answer our prayers. He will not answer on the conditions that we set out. 

Sir, we must also pray and intercede for people like street kids. The Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) had a wonderful plan for removing these children from the streets. Hon. Namugala did a fantastic job in this regard. So, why was that plan not adopted and improved upon? Why do we destroy things that have been working? You know that the plans worked well because God implanted his wisdom in the people who came up with the idea of removing street kids from the street and He wants them to be improved upon. So, why do you change things? Now the President has invited us to a day of prayer and fasting, but many people are scorning that, including some colleagues on your right. My appeal is that we should respect authority. The President is recognised as President both in heaven and here in Zambia.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Tell them.

Lt-Gen Bishop Shikapwasha: I am telling you, too. 

Unless we believe and trust in what the President is saying and go before God, He will not answer Zambia’s prayers. We must give the President the due respect. If not, we shall remain in a quagmire. This is serious business. Our colleagues in one of the neighbouring countries, which I do not want to mention, turned round to respect the President who was in office. Things are looking good for them now. Unless we do the same, we are going to end up with many difficulties. We must respect the President no matter which tribe he comes from. We must respect him whether he is our relative or not. The best way to do that is by telling him when he does something wrong and that the wrong needs to be examined. Do not be afraid to talk. The Cabinet of former President Mwanawasa and that of President Banda went through many quarrels in order to resolve issues.

Sir, the Vision 2030 did not come about because everybody agreed upon it. Hon. Mutati worked day and night to come up with that development programme. Hon. Dr Musokotwane, Mr Magande and many others worked very hard to come up with that programme. The Vision 2030 is still valid and can be used by the PF. You do not need to throw it in the basket. Examine it and what the others have done in the past. You have never run the Government before. You have only been in power for four years, but there are others who have been in Government for fifteen or twenty years. They experienced difficulties. So, why do we not learn from each other, as Zambians, and allow the country to prosper?

In conclusion, the President appealed to the nation to go before God. Let us repent now and go before God so that our prayers are answered.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Ema Bishop, aya!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I must confess that I did not go to church last Sunday.


Mr Namulambe: After listening to the sermon by Bishop Shikapwasha, I am sure my faith has been renewed and God has heard my confession.

Sir, may I begin by stating that what I will say here may not please certain people. However, I request that they respect my views and those of the people of Mpongwe Parliamentary Constituency. To those who will be pleased with my contribution, I thank them in advance. Let us work and not just talk.

Mr Speaker, may I welcome our two colleagues who took their Oath of Allegiance on Tuesday. These are Hon. George Mwamba, Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency and Hon. Teddy Kasonso from Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency. If I heard my two colleagues correctly, they swore to defend and protect the Constitution of Zambia. The Constitution is this one which I am holding (holding up a copy of the Constitution). I am not talking about the Draft Constitution. As I debate, I will defend the Constitution, as I swore before you at that Table.

Mr Speaker, it was good to listen to the President’s first Address to this House. President Lungu came to this House in 2011, as an hon. Member of Parliament and served as hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President. He then went to the Ministry of Justice in the same capacity. He was later elevated to hon. Minister of Home Affairs and moved to the Ministry of Defence during this session of Parliament and has now come back to the same House as President. Whether we like it or not, that was God’s plan according to what the Bishop said.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: So, we cannot run away from it because, if God did not want it, Mr Edgar Lungu would not have been President. 

Sir, it is written in Romans 13 ...


Mr Speaker: You can refer to principles but not verses.


Mr Namulambe: Obliged, Mr Speaker.

We give respect to those in authority. I am going to refer to the President’s Speech as I debate. I have been reading newspapers from the day he delivered this speech. I think the majority of people are saying that this has been a good speech. Of course, people are entitled to their own interpretation. Some may think it was not a good speech, though I have not heard anyone say so. I have not even heard anyone on the Floor of this House say that the speech was hollow, like it has been in the past. 

Mr Speaker, the President gave the direction of Zambia. What remains is the implementation of the things that he has talked about. This responsibility is reposed in the Executive who are supposed to help the President. If I remember correctly, the President made several references to certain hon. Ministers who brought various Bills to Parliament. This means that the implementation of what should make Zambia a better place to live in lies in each hon. Ministers. A person can only ask for a salary after having worked for it. I am talking because I know that maybe today I will get what I am supposed to get for talking.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, let me quickly go to the President’s Speech …

Mr Speaker: I do not know if that is in reference to Hon. Mr Speaker.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, on page 15 of the speech, the President talked about co-operatives. On page 16, in the second paragraph, he said:

“Can you imagine where we could have been, as a country, and how much we could have gained economically had we continued with that level of development driven by the co-operative movement?”

On page 17, in the third paragraph, he said:

“Vibrant co-operatives world over have been known to play a vital role in national development both economic and social. Co-operatives are contributing immensely to economies of Europe, Asia, America and some African countries.”

Mr Speaker, we heard that the portfolio of co-operatives will be transferred to the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. What the ministry should do is to go to the archives and find out what led to the collapse of co-operatives in the past. Had we continued on that path, as the President said, Zambia could have been transformed.

Mr Speaker, I have asked several questions on the Floor of this House during this meeting. All of the questions are aimed at empowering Zambians, value addition and ensuring that we become a productive country. If we go the route of co-operatives, we are going to achieve a lot as a nation. Of course, people are looking for employment. Co-operatives can be a good vehicle for employment creation for young people and adults who are failing to keep their children, who end up on the streets. If people formed co-operatives, they can achieve something, provided there are funds to sustain the co-operatives. What makes co-operatives fail is lack of capital. We are exporting raw cotton because people cannot open textile companies due to lack of capital.

Mr Speaker, in the second paragraph of page 19 of the speech, the President said:

“To address unemployment among our youths and women, the Government is actively pursuing the implementation of the Industrialisation and Job Creation Strategy. The Government is also implementing various empowerment schemes under the Ministries of Gender and Child Development; Youth and Sports; Commerce, Trade and Industry; Tourism and Art; and Transport, Works, Supply and Communications. The combined provision of empowerment in general, for 2015, is K130 million.”

Mr Speaker, I would suggest that we review this amount that is provided in 2015. We have not achieved anything with this amount. Why do we not channel the same funding towards the co-operative movement so that we generate capital for the people who are going to run the co-operatives? It is up to the people in authority to ensure that they follow the President’s policy direction.

Mr Speaker, I said that the two new hon. Members of Parliament have sworn to defend and protect the Constitution of Zambia (waving a copy of the Constitution). I also swore to do the same.

Mr Speaker, since there are many of us in this House, I will leave the other parts of the President’s Speech for the others to debate. In the last paragraph of page 60, the President said:

“Mr Speaker, the Government’s commitment to delivering a people-driven Constitution is unwavering. To this end, the Final Draft Constitution was released to the general public to enable them study it and make comments in October last year.
As a follow-up, the Government has published the Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2015 containing non-contentious clauses and scheduled for presentation to the House during this meeting.”

Mr Speaker, people have thrown mud at hon. Members of Parliament. They have said that we are not supposed to handle the Constitution-making process. However, Article 62 of the Constitution, which I swore to defend and protect, like my colleagues did on Tuesday, states that:

“The legislative power …”

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours and until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was about to quote Article 62 of the Constitution of Zambia, which states: 

“The legislative power of the Republic of Zambia shall vest in Parliament which shall consist of the President and the National Assembly.”

Mr Speaker, to legislate means to make laws. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land that we are responsible to make laws from. My appeal to the people who are saying that hon. Members of Parliament should not look at the non-contentious issues other than those that should be subjected to a Referendum, is that they should appeal to their respective hon. Members of Parliament so that they can debate the issues that they are not comfortable with.

Mr Speaker, if the people of Mpongwe tell me not to support a clause or article in the Constitution, I should give the reasons the people of Mpongwe have for not supporting it. 

Mr Zimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Let me inform all those who have doubts about this House that for now, our role in this House is to legislate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the President also talked about the splitting of ministries. In this folder – I do not know if it is a handbook (waving the folder) – there is a blue print called Supplement to Votes and Proceedings, Notice to Questions and, in that document, Question 104 seeks to find out whether the ministries that were merged were performing well. I am yet to get the response. I do not know whether the President saw this question and pre-emptied it. 

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, there is nothing wrong with revisiting a decision if you find that it is not working in your favour.

Mr Speaker, I have served in the Government before and I know how it operates. I do not think that there will be a need to employ new staff because staff are already there who can be taken to the new ministries. The only appeal I should make to those in the Cabinet and advise the President is that new Deputy Ministers should not be appointed because there are already many (pointing at the Government Bench). The President should just transfer some of them and, maybe, appoint Ministers to head the new ministries so that there is efficiency. Do not bloat the Cabinet. 

Mr Speaker, let us have efficiency. At the moment, it is either the responsibilities are too big or people do not understand what they are supposed to do. Hence, they need to be given smaller workloads. For instance, if you give a 90 kg load to a child who weighs 30 kg, he/she will not be able to carry it. As a parent, the best you can do is to split the load, so that, at least the load will reach the destination where it is meant to go. What we want is to develop Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about having career diplomats. If we have career diplomats, Ministers will not be making unnecessary trips to foreign countries to attend meetings. I, as Minister, have attended meetings before where you find the majority of the people are diplomats and you are the only minister making a presenting. Sometimes, you are asked to make a presentation in three minutes, and yet you have a ten-paged script that requires twenty minutes. So, you struggle to make the presentation when there is a career diplomat in that meeting who is conversant with the subject and can summarise it. That way, Zambia can be ‘heard’ in the host foreign countries.

Mr Speaker, we can save the meagre resources by reducing Ministers’ travel.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we make use of the foreign missions. Let the career diplomats do some of the work for Ministers.

Mr Speaker, when I was Minister, I travelled to Mexico for the first time. I was very happy to travel but, it was embarrassing when I arrived there because the majority of the people were diplomats and I was the only Minister. However, I was able to summarise the speech, as I had been a civil servant before and had prepared scripts for Ministers. 

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of sending street kids to youth skills training centres, I do not wish to oppose my brother from Mazabuka Central. I remember when I served as Minister of Youth and Sport, this programme was for youths above 16 years. The challenge was how to integrate them into society after training. Therefore, it is important that co-operatives are formed so that they are given start-up capital and they do not go back to the streets.

Mr Speaker, as a Backbencher, I do not sit in the Cabinet. I do not even know what is discussed in the Cabinet. So, when I complain ...

Hon. Government Member: You are a rebel!

 Mr Namulambe: I am not a rebel. I am simply reminding you of your duties (pointing at the Government side). 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Some of you are more of rebels than I am …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Hammer!

Mr Namulambe: … because of what you do. You complain because you have not been appointed Cabinet Minister, and yet you call me a rebel, how? I will complain for the people of Mpongwe. Give us the township roads.

Mr Speaker, that is not being a rebel, it is just bring issues their (pointing at the Government side) attention. It is my responsibility to talk as a Member of Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: That is why I am paid a sitting allowance and not just to drink water or tea. I have to speak the truth and accept criticism where possible. Some of us do not just talk, we talk facts. If something is white, we shall tell you it is white and not any other colour. I will not say that it is black. If I want, I can convince somebody that it is green. However, if everybody believes that this is white, I will say it is white.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to place on record my thoughts and feelings about the speech which was delivered to the House by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, during the official opening of the Fifth and last Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. 

Mr Speaker, before I proceed, allow me to congratulate Hon. Teddy Kasonso, Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, and my neighbour, the Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, Hon. George Penda Mwamba. Penda means to count. Hon. Members, you are welcome.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President delivered a well-calculated and unmeasured speech. He drew his speech largely from the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto which is pro-poor. 

Mr Chansa: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: He demonstrated that he is in control of the country and that he wants to implement the manifesto. He also drew on the policy exposition of the last four years of the life of this Parliament. He demonstrated continuity by stretching the policy framework. He also drew on the so many Parliamentary debates that have taken place on the Floor of this House as well as the collective thinking of the people of Zambia on their many cries about where they want the country to go. Ultimately, in his own wisdom, he drew on his vision of where Zambia must be in the next fifty years, which culminates into 2064.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech can be summarised as having policy consistency and continuity. During the campaigns, he promised that he would continue with everything that he was associated with, which was the PF. He has kept the promise and, can, therefore, be trusted as a good President.

Mr Speaker, in would like to debate the President’s Speech from an economic angle. The President focused on massive job creation. He also talked about economic diversification. He was quite emphatic about the efficient running of the Government and promised that he was going to ensure this by providing an institutional framework. He also indicated to this House that he was going to do this by forming the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), which has since been created and is up and running. So far, a number of imperial companies, the so-called policy institutions, parastatals and State-owned enterprises have been moved to the IDC so that the process of diversifying the economy can start in earnest. 

Mr Speaker, if we recall, from the so many debates and presentations by a number of hon. Ministers on the Floor of the House, we will note that they have made reference to the Strategic Plan by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry which may run from 2012 to 2016. It is quite elaborate about the IDC and it’s offshoots that are likely to be established in each province.

Mr Speaker, one thing, which is very close to my heart and I am passionate about, is the co-operative movement which the President clearly indicated is going to be the engine of progress and the means by which massive job opportunities are going to be created in this country. Further, it will result in economic diversification because of the varied economic activities which the co-operatives are likely to be engaged in. 

Mr Speaker, the President also spoke about the creation of the public-private partnership (PPP) initiative. Of course, he talked about placing it at Cabinet Office. When it begins to operate, it is also going to be another institution that will help this country create as many jobs as possible. What the President has done is to circumvent the Treasury by not placing a stress on it so that the financing could come from the private sector into the public assets. So, there will be less pressure on the Treasury and, therefore, making a huge saving.

Mr Speaker, the President also mentioned the creation of the Ministry of Planning. This will be the brain trust of this country responsible for long-term planning. It will create many economic opportunities, structure economic diversification and implementation of many economic programmes and projects. What more, hon. Members, can we ask from this humble man, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu?

Mr Speaker, the President also talked about the creation of the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. We all know that the sector to which this ministry relates has a lot of low-lying fruits because of the nature of the activities involved. They are short term or have short gestation periods. So, we can begin to reap the benefits of diversification and our people can benefit considerably.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to simply say that we have the necessary competencies and capabilities in this country. Our people are very well travelled and possess international exposure. They can engage effectively with international institutions and begin to create the Zambia that we want and which we want to bequeath to our children and bequeath to our future the everlasting prosperity.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President means well and needs the support of all of us in this House. He needs the support of every Zambian in the spirit of One Zambia, One Nation. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the President’s Speech.

Sir, before I proceed, I want to congratulate the three hon. Members of Parliament who have joined us. These are Hon. Kasonso for Solwezi West, the Member of Parliament for Bangweulu, our own creation, Hon. Anthony Kasandwe and, last but not the least, Hon. George Penda Mwamba for Lubansenshi. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to say that this is the last stretch of this Parliament. As we debate in this House, we should be mindful of the people who sent us to this House and forget about our egos and interests.

Mr Speaker, it is not long ago when we had someone in this House who was a Jack of all trades. Unfortunately, he is history because he spoke for everybody except the people of his constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I have just come from a certain constituency where I went to campaign. The situation there was sad. When the gentleman won the election in 2011, he was top of the pack. However, this time around, he was, unfortunately, second from the bottom. 

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech was not only good, but also uplifting. When something is, it is good regardless of what you say about it. No matter what you say about it, this speech was good. It was good not only on that day, but will continue to be good for a long time to come. It is unfortunate that some of my colleagues think that the speech is not was not worth praising. It is neither my fault nor the President’s fault that they are in a mood where they cannot appreciate good things.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, on Page 2 of his speech, the President spoke about hon. Members of Parliament who have been elected to this House since he was sworn in as President of this Republic. He also spoke about those who have been nominated. 

Mr Speaker, just in case some people have forgotten, let me remind the House that ever since President Edgar Chagwa Lungu was elected in January, we have had nine Parliamentary by-elections in Senga Hill, Chawama, Masaiti, Petauke Central, Malambo, Mulobezi Central, Bangweulu, Lubansenshi and Solwezi West. So, these are some of the serious issues we should reflect upon as we speak to the gallery.

Mr Speaker, if you have a child in Grade 5, and that child fails to pass the exams in terms one, two and three, goes to Grade 6 and fails to pass the exams in terms one, term two and three, but still goes to Grade 7 by the Grace of God, and fails the exams in terms one and two, as a parent, you decide to find a priest to pray for him/her so that he/she can pass the Grade 7 Composite Examinations. You go to overnight prayers or witchdoctors, and they give you some concoctions to help him/her pass the examinations. It is impossible for the child to pass the examinations.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: As a parent, the earlier you prepare to accept the reality, the better it will be for you. 

Mr Speaker, is in the public domain that one political party has been winning most of the by-elections. There is also one political party which has won only one by-election out of the nine. 

Hon. Government Members: Mention it! 

Mr Chilangwa: It is an open secret. The Patriotic Front (PF) is the winning party

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: The reason this party has continued performing well in by-elections is that the people have faith and trust in it. That is what the President said. To cap it all, the President came to this Parliament to give a policy direction on how things must be done, and how he thinks the many challenges that the people of Zambia are faced with can be addressed. He did not do that from without. He did that because, as the political party in charge of the affairs of this country, we have a history of consistency. 

Mr Speaker, from the day the speech was delivered, I have been to a lot of places. I have been to churches, markets and bars.

Mr Livune: Drinking Jameson!

Mr Chilangwa: Yes, taking it with you, hon. Member. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, everybody I have come across has said what a great speech this was. What that means is that certain things in the speech are going to be easy to implement because they have been well-received by the members of the general public. I can say that 90 per cent of the hon. Members in this Parliament, including our colleagues on your left, have received this speech well. After the President read the speech, some of them said, “Actually, Edgar’s speech has hit us below the belt.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I can mention their names. Some of them are looking at you right now.


Mr Speaker: Order!

I will not permit you. Continue debating.


Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I would have loved to talk about this speech page by page but, as you know, this speech was long. In his debate, Hon. Namulambe touched on the Constitution and I take his comments on the Constitution as my own. He said that it is our responsibility to ensure that we enact the new Constitution. People must lobby us, hon. Members, so that when we start debating the Constitution, we do so on their behalf as their representatives. For now, Nickson Chilangwa is representing the views of the people of Kawambwa Central in this House. I am going to explain and defend theirs views. I am coming back after the General Elections in 2016. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, the President referred to fifteen pillars which will help us transform our culture. On Page 6, he said:

“Our transformational culture should, therefore, start with each and every one of us getting involved. In this transformation, we must leave the past behind and embrace positive attitudes in all our endeavours.”

Mr Speaker, we must transform ourselves. This is important. We must transform the way we think, work, act, and do politics. We must especially transform the way we do politics. The President also said that we must embrace high aspirations and the courage to achieve them with a strong sense of vision and mission. We must have a vision that can drive this country forward so that when those who will be around in 2064 wake up on the 24th of October, 2064, they shall say that indeed, we were great men.  

Mr Speaker, why should somebody throw ice on such a statement? All that the Opposition wants to plan for is what they are going to ‘eat’ today. They do not want to plan for tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Lack of foresight and planning is the reason we have the challenges that we are facing in this country. That is why the President has come up with a Ministry of National Planning, and that must be supported …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: ... because we will be able to plan for fifty years. If we had planned for fifty years, we would not have electricity deficit. If we had planned for fifty years, the problem of maize marketing would not be there, it would have been history. This is the bigger picture that the Patriotic Front (PF) has. Late President Michael Sata started this programme and we shall continue to ensure that we build upon what he left. 

Mr Speaker, late President Michael Sata merged some ministries so that we could have a leaner Government. I remember that some of our colleagues on the left said that there was no way the President could merge the Ministry of Agriculture with the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: They opposed it. 

Mr Mulenga: We remember! 

Mr Chilangwa: The goodness of our God is that He performs wonders. One of us who sat with us in this House heard the cries of our colleagues. Our colleagues objected to the merger of the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development. 

Fortunately, one of us, who sat here with us, heard their cries. Our colleagues on your left, Sir, objected to the merger of the Ministry of Works and Supply with the Ministry of Transport and Communications. Today, this listening President has given them what they wanted and they want to change.  

Mr Mulenga: Like chameleons. 

Mr Chilangwa: What do we want for the good of the people? What we need are leaders who will say something today and stand by it the next day. This is what the Zambians want. They do not want people who move from one point to another for the sake of political expediency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Fortunately, the people of Zambia know what is good for them. They are supporting the President and will continue supporting him … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: … and this great political party that is performing wonders. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, people like me who have lived in Chilanga and Lilayi for the last twenty years are happy. It was hell to drive south from Lusaka. Today, there are three direct routes to the south. I can go through Kabwata and get to my home in ten minutes. 

Mr Sikazwe: The PF at work!

Mr Sichone: Seven minutes! 

Mr Chilangwa: This Government is demonstrating that we can do things differently. I urge our colleagues to come on board and join us on this route. 

Mr Speaker, there is one point I would like to end with and it concerns the co-operative movement. I grew up in Luapula Province. I remember one institution called the Luapula Co-operative Union (LCU) which was a leading driver of economic activity and growth. The LCU operated industries and milling plants. It had restaurants and transport facilities and was proactive in maize marketing. 

The LCU was the biggest single employer in Luapula Province. So, when the President talked about revitalising the co-operative movement, it is for a good cause and needs the support of all of us, especially those of us from areas and provinces that are at the bottom of the development index. 

For us, in Luapula Province, this could not have come at a better time. This is what we have been crying for and the President will get all the support that he deserves because this is what the people of Luapula voted for in 2011 and in January, 2015. I know that it hurts when you join a company and find that someone who was years behind in secondary school; someone who used to buy bread and fetch water for you because he/she were five years behind you, is now ahead of you.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: The truth of the matter is that our God in heaven knows each one of us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: He knows our capacities. There is a reason some people are perpetual failures. 

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Minister of Justice and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. 

Question put and agreed to. 


The House adjourned at 1905 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 1st October, 2014.