Debates - Tuesday, 28th July, 2015

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Tuesday, 28th July, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

GAMES BETWEEN THE ZIMBABWEAN AND ZAMBIAN PARLIAMENTS

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I am pleased to inform you that the netball and football games between the Zimbabwean and Zambian Parliaments took place on Saturday, 25th July, 2015, in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe, as earlier announced.

I will start by announcing the netball results.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I am pleased to inform you that, in the netball fixture, Zimbabwe netted eleven while Zambia thirteen.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In the football fixture, Zambia scored one, but also conceded four goals.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Let me take this opportunity to thank all hon. Members who took the trouble to travel all the way to Bulawayo to participate in the games. I also wish to place on record my special gratitude to the leader of delegation, Hon. Vincent Mwale, the Minister of Youth and Sport, for the role he played in representing me and the National Assembly as a whole. My gratitude also goes to all the other hon. Members and members of staff for their support, without which the netball team’s victory would have, perhaps, eluded us as well. Regardless of the outcome of the football game, I still urge the members of our football team to continue training and exerting themselves. I am that they will have many chances to redeem themselves in the not-too-distant future.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Finally, I extend my appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services that they provided to both teams.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_________

RULINGS BY MR SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: Hon Members, I have rulings to render.

You will recall that, on Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 668 on the Order Paper, and Hon Members were asking follow-up questions, three points of order were raised as follows:

(a)    the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Mr D. Mwila, MP, on whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central Constituency, Mr G. B. Mwamba, MP, was in order to continue sitting in the House when, at a United Party for National Development (UPND) press conference held earlier that day, he had resigned from the Patriotic Front (PF) on whose ticket he had been elected to the House and joined the UPND.  The hon. Minister stated that, under the Constitution, hon. Members of Parliament who resigned from the party on whose ticket they were elected to the House and joined other political parties immediately forfeited their seat;

(b)    the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central Constituency, Mr J.  J.  Mwiimbu, MP, on whether the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Mr R. Siamunene, MP; the hon. Deputy Minister for the Western Province, Mr P. Njeulu, MP; the hon. Deputy Minister for North-Western Province, Mr D. Kafwaya, MP; and the hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, Mr G. Monde, MP, were in order to continue being Members of Parliament when they had made it very clear that they were no longer associating themselves with the United Party for National Development (UPND), on whose tickets they were elected to the House. In raising his point of order, Hon. Mwiimbu referred to the case of the late Hon. B. Tetamashimba in which the erstwhile Speaker had ruled that any Member of Parliament who associated with a party other than the one on whose ticket they were elected to the National Assembly forfeited their seat; and

(c)    the hon. Deputy Minister for Lusaka Province, Mr O. Mwaliteta, on whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi Constituency, Mr P. Mucheleka, MP, was in order to sit in the House when he had declared himself a member of the UPND and attended its press conference.

Hon Members, in order to render a measured ruling, I, in my immediate response to the three points of order, reserved my rulings to a later date so that I could carefully study the matters raised. I have since carefully studied the points of order and now wish to render my rulings.  

Hon Members, since all the three points of order touch on the fundamental question of an hon. Member crossing the Floor of the House, I decided to, first, consolidate them into one ruling before ruling on each of them. In so doing, I will answer the following questions:

(a)    what amounts to crossing the Floor?

(b)    What is meant to be a member of a political party?

(c)    Has an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament who accepts a Ministerial position or sides with the Ruling Party in voting in the House crossed the Floor?

(d)    Has an elected hon. Member of Parliament joined another political party if he or she campaigns for it and attends its functions? And,

(e)    When can an Independent hon. Member of Parliament be deemed to have crossed the Floor?

Hon. Members, I will begin with the first question.

Hon Members, Article 71 of the Constitution, Cap.1 of the Laws of Zambia, provides for tenure of office of Members of Parliament.  Article 71 (2) (c), which is at the centre of this consolidated ruling provides as follows:

“(2) A member of the National Assembly shall vacate his seat in the Assembly:

“(c)     In the case of an elected member, if he becomes a member of a political party other than the party of which he was an authorised candidate when he was elected to the National Assembly or if having been an Independent candidate, he joins a political party or having been a member of a political party, he becomes an Independent.”

Hon. Members, the meaning of this clause is plain, precise and concise. It is simply that an hon. Member will be deemed to have crossed the Floor in the following three circumstances:

(a)    if, elected on a party ticket, he or she becomes a member of another party;

(b)    if, elected as an Independent Member, he or she joins a political party; and

(c)    if, elected on a party ticket, he or she leaves the party to become an Independent Member.

Hon. Members, I will proceed to the next question, that is: What does it mean to be a member of a political party?

Hon Members, there are various ways in which a person can become a member of a political party.  Typically, a person can become a member of a party by enlisting or subscribing as a member.  A person can also be deemed a member of a political party by operation of law. In this regard, it is noteworthy that, currently, societies like political parties are registered under the Societies Act, Chapter 119 of the Laws of Zambia, which regulates the conduct of all societies. Section 2 of the Societies Act, in fact, defines the words ‘member’ and ‘office bearer’ in so far as they relate to societies registered under the Act.  A member is defined as follows:

““Member," in relation to a society, includes an office-bearer of such society.”

The term ‘office-bearer’ is defined in the following terms:

““Office-bearer,” in relation to any society or any committee or governing or executive body of a society, means any person who is a president, vice-president, chairman, deputy chairman, secretary or treasurer of such society, committee or body, or holds therein any office or position analogous to any of those mentioned above.”

Hon Members, clearly, the two definitions, when read together, mean that a person holding an office, for example, of a president or vice-president of a society, such as a political party, is deemed, by law, to be a member of that political party.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In addition, in instances where a party issues membership cards, it can be argued, forcefully, that the issuance of a membership card to a person, in itself, signifies that person’s membership of that political party and is, obviously, conclusive evidence of his or her membership. Similarly, if a party has a membership register that is updated regularly, it can be properly and fairly inferred that all persons whose names appear in the register are members of such party.

Hon. Members, I will now proceed to the question on whether the acceptance of a Ministerial position by an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament amounts to crossing the Floor.

Hon Members, Article 46 of the Constitution, Cap 1 of the Laws of Zambia, empowers the Republican President to appoint Cabinet Ministers. To that end, it provides as follows:

“(1)    There shall be such Ministers as may be appointed by the President.

(2)    Appointment to the office of Minister shall be made from amongst members of the National Assembly …”

Further, Article 47 of the Constitution, which relates to the appointment of hon. Deputy Ministers, provides as follows:

“(1)    The President may appoint such Deputy Ministers as he may consider necessary to assist Ministers in the performance of their functions and to exercise or perform on behalf of Ministers such of the Ministers' functions as the President may authorise in that behalf.

“(2)    A Provincial Deputy Minister shall be responsible for the administration of any province as the President may assign to such Provincial Deputy Minister.
 
“(3)    Appointment to the office of Provincial Deputy Minister and Deputy Minister shall be made from amongst members of the National Assembly.”

Hon Members, from the foregoing provisions, it is crystal clear that the appointment of hon. Ministers and hon. Deputy Ministers is the prerogative of the Republican President. It is also clear that the President is at liberty to appoint any Member of the National Assembly as Cabinet Minister or Deputy Minister regardless of the political affiliation of such a Member of Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me seize this opportunity to remind or inform, as the case might be, this august House that the High Court of Zambia has very recently had occasion to adjudicate on this matter in the case of Kuchunga Edwin Simusamba v Attorney General, Greyford Monde, Richwell Siamunene and Poniso Njeulu. The Cause Number for this case is 2012/HP/1561. The case is not yet reported in the Zambia Law Reports. In this case, the petitioner mainly alleged that, by accepting Ministerial positions in the PF-led Government, the respondents, being Opposition UPND Members of Parliament, coincidentally, about whom one of the points of order was raised, had crossed the Floor. In delivering judgment, the Hon. Mr Justice C. F. R. Mchenga, held as follows on Page 16 of the judgment:

“My understanding of Article 71 of the Constitution is that a Member of Parliament will be considered to have crossed the Floor when he leaves his political party or joins a political party. Can a Member of Parliament who takes up a Ministerial position be considered to have crossed the Floor? The answer is no.  A shift in allegiance by taking a ministerial appointment or constantly siding or voting with the ruling party does not amount to crossing the Floor under the provision.  Whether or not that is desirable is not a matter of interpretation, but of legislation. Had that been the intention of the legislators, they would have indicated it in precise terms.”

Indeed, hon. Members, it is for us, lawmakers, to determine whether or not the status quo is desirable.  

Hon. Members, in light of the foregoing Constitutional provisions and the High Court precedent, it is very clear that an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament who accepts the position of hon. Minister or hon. Deputy Minister in the Government or indeed sides with the Ruling Party in voting in the House cannot be considered to have crossed the Floor. That must be clear by now. So, let me move on to the second question.

Hon. Members, I have already indicated the circumstances under which a person can be deemed to have become a member of a political party, which, obviously, did not include a person merely supporting or campaigning for a. In that regard, in the exercise of the Constitutional rights to assemble and associate, hon. Members of Parliament are at liberty to campaign for and attend the functions of a political party other than the one which sponsored them for election to the National Assembly. In fact, in the recent past, some have deliberately done so.  

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Similarly, Independent hon. Members also enjoy the same privilege, provided that they do not go further to become members or office bearers of the parties they choose to support. Therefore, to try and cluster onlookers, bystanders and party sympathisers in the definition of ‘member’ would be an over-stretching of the meaning of the term stipulated under the Societies Act.

Hon. Members, I will, now, specifically rule on each of the three points of order, starting with the alleged crossing of the Floor by Hon. R. Siamunene, MP, Hon. D. Kafwaya, MP, Hon. P. Njeulu, MP, and Hon. G. Monde, MP.

Hon. Members, in the point of order against UPND hon. Members of Parliament serving in the PF Government, Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, alleged that, by voting with the PF and participating in PF campaigns, the UPND hon. Members had crossed the Floor. He further stated that, in the case of Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, a former hon. Member of this House, the then Speaker had ruled that any hon. Member of Parliament who associated with a party other than the one on whose ticket he or she was elected to Parliament forfeited their seat.

Hon. Members, I have had review the case of Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, since it was referred to in the point of order. The parties to the case were Benny Tetamashimba v The Speaker of the National Assembly, Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and Attorney General. The cause number of the case is 2001/HP/0675, but the case has not been reported in the Zambia Law Reports. The brief facts of the case were that, in 1996, Mr B. Tetamashimba, MP, was elected hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central Constituency on the National Party (NP) ticket.  In 2000, the NP and UPND signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU), the result of which was the appointment of Hon. Tetamashimba, MP, as Secretary-General (SG) of the UPND.  The former Speaker, in that instance, ruled that, by assuming the position of SG, as evidenced by his use of the UPND letter head indicating that he was the party’s SG, Hon. Tetamashimba, MP, had become a member of the UPND. However, Hon. Tetamashimba was dissatisfied with the decision of the Speaker and rushed to the High Court to apply for judicial review, in which he sought, among other reliefs, a declaration that the Speaker’s decision was null and void, but the High Court dismissed the application and upheld his expulsion from the House on the ground that he was guilty of dual membership. In passing judgment, the hon. Mr Justice J. C. Mutale held as follows:

“He became a UPND member after waiver of normal formalities of application for membership. This, thus, is an exception to the rule, but it, unfortunately, made him a dual member, contrary to the provisions of Article 71, and draws him into the jurisdiction of the Speaker. The Speaker found that the applicant did have dual membership. There was, therefore, no illegality, impropriety, malice or unreasonableness when the Speaker made that decision.”

Hon. Members, it is self-evident from the foregoing judgment that Mr Tetamashimba, MP, lost his seat because, firstly, he had assumed the position of SG in the UPND and, consequently, had become its member, secondly, the hon. Mr Justice J. C. Mutale held that, in terms of Article 71(2) (c) of the Constitution of Zambia, dual membership is outlawed under our Constitution. It was, therefore, a misrepresentation of facts by Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … to have asserted that Mr Tetamashimba, MP, had lost his seat for merely associating with the UPND. In the current case, the hon. Members concerned are Members of this House representing their respective constituencies, having been authorised candidates for the UPND. After the PF formed Government in 2011, they were appointed hon. Deputy Ministers to serve in the Government as provided for under the Republican Constitution. Therefore, in light of the provisions of Article 46 and 47 of the Republican Constitution, and the precedent set by the High Court, I rule that the hon. Deputy Ministers have not crossed the Floor and are, therefore, in order to continue being hon. Members of Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I will proceed to the next point of order.

Hon. Members, the gist of the second point of order against the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi Constituency, Mr P Mucheleka, MP, is that he, being an Independent Member of this House, has become a member of the UPND by virtue of his attendance of the party’s press conference on Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015. I was further asked to deem that a crossing of the Floor. I had an opportunity to view the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) footage of the press conference in question, and can confirm that Hon. Mucheleka, MP, attended it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: However, he did not make any statement …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … or act in any way to suggest that he had joined the UPND. He could, therefore, be fairly and properly considered to have been a curious bystander …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … or, at best, a sympathiser …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … of the UPND. Indeed, he can be considered a citizen merely exercising his Constitutional freedoms …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … of movement, assembly and association.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me underscore the fact that merely supporting or campaigning for another party or attending its functions is not sufficient evidence of one’s membership of a political party. There must be something more; something cogent and conclusive to that effect. In this regard, I, therefore, rule that Hon. P. Mucheleka, MP, has not crossed the Floor and is in order to sit in the House …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … as duly elected Independent Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Let me, now, rule on the last point of order.

Hon. Members, in the point of order raised on Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, it is alleged that the hon. Member, having been elected to this House on the PF ticket, had joined the UPND at the party’s press conference on Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015.

Hon. Members, as I have already stated, I have seen the footage of the press conference in question. In that footage, Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, says the following, among other things:

“Country men and women, firstly, let me thank the UPND, through, of course, the President and the National Management Committee, for appointing me to the position of the party Vice-President of Administration.”

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, give me an opportunity to finish the ruling. I still have all the powers in me even as I stand. I continue with the quotation:

“Sir, it is such an honour to serve you in this manner, Mr President. I am extremely humbled that you have chosen to place your faith and trust in me. I accept this offer wholeheartedly. This is a responsibility that I do not take lightly and I will endeavour to do the utmost to advance the cause of this great party which, I have no doubt, will form the next government in the next few months. Mr President, once again, thank you very much for this appointment.”

May I add, by the way, that the press conference manifested the usual trappings and political tradition of politicians re-aligning their political allegiance, namely, the sprinkling of some white substance on the head and around the forehead of Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP. The hon. Member, in turn, responding to the gesture, vigorously waved the UPND symbol to a cheering and excited crowd. The incontrovertible and paramount thing from the statement made by Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, at the press conference was that he had been appointed Vice-President in Charge of Administration in the UPND and he wholeheartedly accepted the appointment. The fundamental question, therefore, is whether, by accepting a high position of responsibility in the UPND, Hon. Mwamba, MP, can fairly and properly be considered to have joined the UPND and, thereby, crossed the Floor of the House, as envisaged by Article 71(2) (c) of the Constitution.

Hon. Members, it is my well-considered view that, by accepting the position of Vice-President for Administration in the UPND, Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, obviously, became an office-bearer in the UPND and, consequently, a member of the UPND, as defined by Section 2 of the Societies Act referred to. In any event, it is utterly inconceivable that the entire UPND top brass can possibly appoint a committed and loyal member of the PF to such a high position in their party. So, the only reasonable inference I can draw from the circumstances is that Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, has quit the PF and joined the UPND. In any case, Article 71(2)(c) of the Constitution outlaws dual membership, as held by the High Court in the Tetamashimba case that was brought to the attention of my office by the hon. Member for Monze Central, Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, MP. Therefore, in keeping with the precedent of the House set by my predecessor, Speaker Mwanamwambwa, in the case of Hon. Tetamashimba and affirmed by the High Court, I now declare that, in joining the UPND, a political party on whose ticket he was not elected to this House, by becoming its Vice-President for Administration on Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015, Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, crossed the Floor and forfeited his seat as Member of Parliament for Kasama Central Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. G. B. Mwamba, MP, was, therefore, out of order to sit in the House. Accordingly, I now declare the Kasama Central Parliamentary Constituency seat is vacant.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I thank you.

Interruptions

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

PROCUREMENT OF CONTAMINATED CRUDE OIL

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to clarify to the nation, through this August House, the issue of contaminated crude oil feedstock that has been circulating in the media.

Mr Speaker, Indeni Petroleum Refinery, through its analytical laboratory, routinely conducts analytical tests on the feedstock it receives through the pipeline to assess its suitability and determine the optimal operating parameters.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, during the week beginning 15th June, 2015, it was noticed that there was a sudden increase in acidity in the crude feedstock, which is not desirable because it results in corrosion of pipes. That discovery prompted the refinery to institute an investigation into the possible cause of the high acidity and, on 17th June, 2015, various samples from the refinery were sent to an independent laboratory, Intertek Testing Laboratory, in Dar-es-Salaam. A meeting of a joint operation committee, comprising experts from Indeni, Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline and the independent inspector, Société Contrôles Techniques (SOCOTEC) was, then, held on the 18th of June, 2015, at which it was agreed that samples be picked from Indeni Petroleum Refinery and all the seven TAZAMA pumping stations. However, before the results were received, a series of leakages were experienced on the 20th of June, 2015, which led to the shutdown of the processing units to facilitate maintenance.

Mr Speaker, the results from Intertek Testing Laboratory revealed the presence of extremely high levels of organic chlorides in the crude feedstock. The consequence of processing crude oil contaminated with organic chlorides is corrosion of the refinery equipment and pipes, which eventually develop leaks. The refinery will also have to be continually shut down to facilitate repairs and that makes it difficult for it to produce the required amounts of products for the market.

Mr Speaker, in view of this development, the hon. Minister directed that, in the future, TAZAMA is not to offload any supplies until quality certificates acceptable to the refinery are presented by the supplier. Consequently, a ship carrying 90,000 metric tonnes of crude feedstock that arrived in the week beginning 20th July, 2015, could not be offloaded until the analysis was completed. That cargo has been certified acceptable to the refinery and offloading commenced on 27th July, 2015.  The additional precautionary check will apply to all future cargos received in Dar-es-Salaam. I, therefore, assure the nation that no contaminated feedstock will henceforth be received by the Government.

Mr Speaker, regarding the effect of the contamination on our fleet of vehicles, let me assure the nation that the chemicals in the crude do not remain in the refined products because they are washed out during the refining process. Further, before refined products are sold to the market, the refinery issues quality certificates that indicate that the products, for example, petrol or diesel, meet the specifications set by the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS).

Mr Speaker, the ministry has demanded an explanation of why the crude feedstock contained organic chlorides from the supplier. After hearing the explanation, the ministry will determine what sanctions to impose on the supplier, as per the provision of the contract.

Mr Speaker, in order to prevent possible fuel shortages, we have increased the importation of finished products so as to meet the national demand. I, therefore, assure the nation that this situation will not at all lead to a fuel shortage, as the Government has taken all necessary measures to ensure the continuation of normal fuel supply.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement.

Sir, the hon. Minister mentioned that Indeni Petroleum Refinery observed leakages along the pipeline and from its equipment. What will the cost of repairing the various damaged parts of the pipeline and the refinery equipment be? Additionally, who will meet that cost?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, indeed, the damage arose from the high content of organic chlorides, like I have said. However, the refinery is currently operating normally. Some measures were taken to flash out the corroding agent.

Sir, the cost of the damage, so far, has been over K10 million. This cost will be passed on to the supplier.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Who will meet the cost?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we will pass it on to the supplier of the crude oil.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you most sincerely for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order. I also wish to appreciate the ruling you have made because it has freed our colleagues who are with us from the Patriotic Front (PF) to campaign with us openly.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, the mines in this country are the life line of this country. However, of late, they have been affected drastically by the severe load shedding by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO). As a result of that, they have threatened to lay off workers because they cannot operate at full capacity. We are also aware that ZESCO has continued to export power to neighbouring countries, as per the statement of the hon. Minister, due to the contracts that were signed. So, is the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy, and Water Development in order to fail to address this issue, considering that the whole economy of Zambia will be seriously affected if the mines reduce production and lay off workers? Is the Government in order to take a laissez-faire attitude over such a very serious issue that affects the generation of income by the Republic of Zambia, which is now financially stressed and has borrowed money at 8.5 per cent in order to cover the deficit?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that I will allow the hon. Minister, before we rise on Friday, 31st July, 2015, to clarify that matter.  

The hon. Member for Luena may continue.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, which Government department procured the dangerous crude oil that is destroying our infrastructure?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, a team comprising personnel from various departments is tasked to award contracts for procurement of crude oil. Yes, the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development takes the lead, but it is supported by officers from various departments.

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, the hon. Minister has indicated that he is in a position to immediately respond to the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central. I will permit him to do so at any juncture that will fit him, but before we go to another stage of our business.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister for a very brave …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, it has been a tradition of the various administrations that, every harvest time, a floor price for maize is set by the Government so that farmers can use it as a bargain tool. This year, however, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has not done so. Consequently, farmers are now being swindled out of their deserved earnings for their produce because they have no basis on which to bargain for the price. Is this Government, therefore, in order not to set the floor price for maize? Is it in order to just leave the farmers without protection?

I need your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The difficulty I have with this point of order is that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has, previously, belaboured its subject.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Speaker: Whether we agree with his position or not is another question. However, if the hon. Member feels strongly that he still needs to pursue the matter in whatever fashion, he can file in a question of an urgent nature, which I will process quickly and forward to the hon. Minister.

Hon. Member for Mbala, you may continue.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to start by commending the hon. Minister for a brave appearance on radio this morning. However, his presentation this afternoon in the House and on radio this morning has left out two issues that I wish him to comment on.

Mr Speaker, the importation of any commodity requires insurance for many reasons, including wrong product. Further, the commodity should be inspected by independent certifiers before it is paid for or considered to have finally been imported. Was the crude oil insured against any wrong quality? Additionally, is there an independent agent who certifies the products as they come in? If there is, what is the name of the independent company? Finally, will the company take the blame for certifying a wrong product for importation into this country?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to put it on record that this Government means well in its management of the economy, and that the mines are the driving agents of this economy. Therefore, we have taken their need to operate uninterrupted into full consideration because we know that a disruption in their operations would have a severely negative impact on our economy. The allegation that power supply to the mines has been rationed through load shedding is not a correct representation of the current state of affairs. I will defend what the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) is doing in the mines because it has not disrupted power supply to any mine. We are very cognisant of the need to sustain that industry. Be that as it may, however, we need to make provisions to cushion this deficit by denting into the power supplied to the mines in a small and logically-planned manner. Currently, we are dialoguing with the mines and hope that we can come to an arrangement in which they can forego 20 to 30 per cent of their less-essential load. We want them to voluntarily switch off their power equipment at specific times. In short, we have never load-shed the mines because we are a very caring Government and appreciate that the health of our economy is at stake.  
 
Mr Speaker, I do not know where the point of order by Hon. Mwiimbu is coming from. We have never load-shed the mines. Like I stated earlier, we are in dialogue with the mining houses. For instance, last week, I held three meetings with the mines in which they indicated their commitment to voluntarily helping us to reduce load shedding. On our part, we will ensure that the mines continue contributing to our economy the way they have been doing all along. We will not disrupt them, but achieve what we want through a very meaningful discussion with them.  

Sir, with regard to the contaminated crude oil we are getting, I cannot state if it has been insured. However, I know that insurance has been covered for other things like the sinking of a ship or fire while in transit. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you right now, but I will find out whether the insurance covers the quality of the crude oil.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, be reminded that we have a very heavy load today. So, I will take the last set of questions on this statement from the hon. Members for Chavuma, Mafinga, Nchanga, Mpongwe, Mpika Central and Keembe.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I thank ...

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order, which I believe to seriously border on the national interest.

Sir, the Head of State, His Excellency Mr Lungu, the hon. Minister of Justice, Dr Simbyakula, and Her Honour the Vice-President, if my memory serves me right, have told this nation in the media and on the Floor of this House that the Government would present non-contentious Clauses in the Constitution for the consideration of this House and possible amendment during this session.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Those statements were made at that high level of the Government apparatus.  So, they have made the citizens of this country to anxiously wait for this House to deal with the issue of Constitutional amendments, which are extremely important and sit at the centre of how we will configure our governance and country in the future.

Sir, I am alarmed to hear that we are rising on Friday ...

Mr Speaker: Did you say you are alarmed?

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: I am concerned that the House is rising on Friday, 31st August, 2015, without those amendments being presented to the House as promised by the Patriotic Front (PF) Administration. So, is the Executive in order to allow this session to come to a close without honouring its word or informing this House and the people of this country that their Government has, once again, decided to renege on its promise?  

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me indicate that, as we begin winding up this session this week, I will be very slow to call for ministerial statements. So, those who have urgent questions, such as the one asked by the hon. Member for Choma Central, should file them in and we will process them quickly so that you have the responses before Friday. That is the way I will proceed on these urgent matters. I will allow urgent questions, not ministerial statements.

May the hon. Member for Chavuma continue.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister for his statement in which he indicated that the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta Pipeline (TAZAMA) was the Government’s agent. I am also aware that TAZAMA was appointed the agent for the Government to receive the feedstock when it docks in Dar-es-Salaam and analyses it before sending it through the pipeline to Indeni, which has a very big laboratory for analysing the quality of feedstock. Now, considering that, at the end of this process, bad feedstock found its way into the refinery and caused damage, what does the Government intend to do to its agents, Indeni, TAZAMA and the independent agent who the Government employs to look after its interest for failing it?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I know that Hon. Konga is trying to make me pre-empt what the Government is trying to do. Like I indicated, we have put a very experienced independent investigative team in place to reach to the bottom of the issue. After that, we will know what steps to take. I indicated that we will to take the necessary steps against whoever has been involved in this after we have done all the investigations and heard all the submissions. Give us some space and we will do what the country wants us to do.

Mr Speaker, as regards Hon. Simfukwe’s question, the independent evaluating company that has been reviewing the data for us is Intertek.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Sir, part of my question has been asked by the hon. Member for Chavuma.

Sir, the hon. Minister mentioned that there is an investigation underway. I am even more concerned about that because it appears that the supply chain is so clearly defined that, when there is a mistake like this one, it should be possible for him to immediately pinpoint who has made it. Is he not able to tell us, in a preliminary manner, which Government officers can be held accountable for procuring the bad crude oil that has ended up costing us so much money? Can he not tell us whether it is the inter-ministerial team, Tanzania Zambia Mafuta Pipeline (TAZAMA) or the officers at Indeni? We need answers.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I can only repeat what I said when answering the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma. We know where the buck will stop, but we are being cautious so that we do not make a hurried decision. The independent investigative team will analyse samples of the current stocks and compare the results with the results at each gate of inspection. The data that the supplier provided was evaluated and will be compared with what was sampled when the crude arrived in Dar-es-Salaam, at TAZAMA in Ndola and at Indeni. We do not want to jump to conclusions. I may have somewhere to point, but I may be wrong. So, allow us to do the right thing instead of throwing allegations along the chain.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, we have received some shipments of that bad crude oil and the information we have received, as members of the public, correctly or incorrectly, is that two other ships are on the high seas with the same bad stock. Can the hon. Minister assure us that there are no further shipments with this bad crude, especially in light of the fact that the hon. Minister has assured the nation that there will be no shortage of fuel in country, yet we are already seeing a few queues forming up.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I do not know if Hon. Simuusa was in the House when I talked about the ship that just docked. It was tested and the results showed that the stock was ok. Therefore, we have started decanting. As for the other ships, we will check the content and compare it with the source up to the two TAZAMA depots, in Dar-es-Salaam and Zambia, respectively, and at Indeni. Whatever is coming in will be checked thoroughly to ensure that we do not bring in any contaminated oil. However, the one that is currently decanting is perfect.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, it is true that Indeni Oil Refinery has lived its full usage and that might even be contributing to the production of bad fuel. Are there any plans by the Government to build a new refinery between Nakonde and Mkushi?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we have undertaken thorough studies on the pros and cons of building a new refinery or a pipeline to just bring in finished products or tracking the products and we will implement what has been recommended in the consultant’s report, which we just received, as soon as possible. Indeed, all the options have been considered.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I must declare personal interest in this matter because I worked at Dar-es-Salaam Port with Hon. Shuma. Our job was to clear crude oil to Zambia nearly on a daily basis. We went on high seas to see what was happening to our crude oil and spent many days there.

Sir, the hon. Minister says that the damage is only K10 million. How much do we spend to buy the feedstock if that is damage? Feedstock is bought from abroad and it is paid for before it is shipped. Therefore, money has already been paid for the feedstock. It does not come on nkongole.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, what do you mean by “nkongole?”

Laughter

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, it means you borrow the feedstock and then you pay later.

Mr Speaker: Oh, I see.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: For the feedstock, you have to buy it on cash. That is why it is put on the high seas. In this case, the feedstock became Zambia’s property the moment it arrived at Kurasini in Dar-es-Salaam. How much was that feedstock worth? I ask because that is part of the damage? The second part of the damage is that, in the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline, there is a lot of crude oil that is part of the bad feedstock.  Can the hon. Minister explain that to the nation?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I have said that we will continue shutting down due to the feedstock and flash in chemicals so that they can shield our pipeline and processing equipment from further corrosion. That is not a guarantee, though. The K10 million that I talked about is the money that has been used for the past three shut-downs. As days go by, indeed, hon. Member, there will be some other costs incurred. We will do the best we can not to allow corrosion to take place. We agree that there could be some slippage. I really feel a little empowered by your revelation that you used to fly over the high seas to check on our ships and all that. I wish we could do the same as well.

I thank you, Sir.

LAWLESS PARTY CADRES

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula) on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila)): Mr Speaker, in response to a point of order raised by the hon. Member for Monze Central with respect to the violence reported in Lusaka following the appearance of the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe at the offices of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), you requested my colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to come up with a statement on the same. The Minister of Home Affairs is out of Lusaka. So, I will issue the statement on his behalf.

Sir, the unacceptable incident referred to in the point of order occurred last Thursday, 23rd July, 2015, along Church Road in Lusaka, when some United Party for National Development (UPND) supporters who were with Hon. Silvia Masebo were returning from the offices of the ACC offices where hon. Masebo had been summoned for questioning clashed with suspected supporters of the Patriotic Front (PF). Unfortunately, the incident is still under investigation and it would be premature to draw conclusions before the investigations have been concluded.

Mr Speaker, I want to stress that my Government does not condone lawlessness of any form, as evidenced by our record of maintaining law and order without fear, favour or, indeed, ill-will against any of our fellow citizens.

Mr Speaker, in the Kitwe incident of 15th July, 2015, the suspected transgressors of the law included high-profile members of the PF, the party in Government. They were, however, not only arrested, but are also being prosecuted in accordance with the law. Our commitment to providing a secure environment for social and economic development can, therefore, not be doubted. We uphold our laws without partiality or ill-will towards any of our fellow citizens.

Mr Speaker, allow me to reiterate what my colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs stated on 23rd July, 2015: We shall continue to provide a secure environment for social and economic development in an impartial manner and in line with the laws of the land. I, therefore, call upon all political leaders to condemn violence and promote peaceful co-existence and observance of all our laws, as we are not only a democratic country, but also a trail-blazer in advancing the tenets of good governance on our continent and in the world.

Sir, in conclusion, let me, once more, categorically state that the PF Government condones neither violence nor lawlessness. We should, therefore, continue to abide by the provisions of the law of our land, as anyone found wanting is bound to face the wrath of law without exception.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: As usual, hon. Members are free to ask questions on point of clarification on the statement issued on behalf of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the comprehensive answer.

Sir, why did the hon. Minister refer to the United Party for National Development (UPND) members who escorted Hon. Silvia Masebo as ‘UPND cadres’. In the same statement, he called the rival group that confronted them as ‘suspected Patriotic Front (PF) Members’. Does he have proof that one of the groups was of UPND members? If so, does he not have the same proof of the other group being PF members? Why can we not just apportion the blame and say that the two groups were of PF members and UPND members, respectively. We should call a spade a spade.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the point of order by the hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency referred to one group as UPND supporters.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, Zambia has been a very peaceful country. One of the things about which our people boast when they are abroad is that we live in an oasis of peace. However, every so often, there are cadres who try to break that peace. As I know that it is only the Government that can stop this vice, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister what measures the Government is putting in place to stop unruly cadres from interfering with the rights of other political parties.

 Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs has continued to stress to the police command that the law must be applied equally because there are no sacred cows in the fight against lawlessness. I also appeal to our colleagues in the different political parties to condemn violence in all its forms.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, it no secret that a person’s character can be discerned by the company they keep. The English say, “Show me your friend and I will tell you your character.”

Sir, the hon. Minister said that Zambia is a trail-blazer in democratic tenets on the continent. In the same statement, he referred to some Patriotic Front (PF) cadres, although he did not call them ‘suspected’ cadres in this instance, who attacked United Party for National Development (UPND) President, Mr Hichilema in Kitwe, one of whom is Mr Chile, are now in court. However, away from the court system, when the PF leadership sits down with its cadres, whose intolerant behaviour and attitude towards people with opposing views the party has failed to control, how do the conversations normally go?

 Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, with reference to the Kitwe incident, I stated that a number of highly-placed persons were arrested and the matter is in court. May it suffice for me to reiterate that there are no sacred cows in this country. The people who are being prosecuted are high-profile PF members and that action sends a clear and strong message to our members that we shall not condone acts of lawlessness from any of them. I hope that this action will yield the desired result.

 I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s statement, but it leaves many questions unanswered.

Sir, on Saturday, I saw three minibuses full of young people wearing berets and making a lot noise while waving their fists in the air through the windows, which sent people scampering in all directions. That, obviously, disturbed the peace. Could the hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was stating that I appreciated the hon. Minister’s statement and the fact that the Kitwe incident is receiving the due attention. However, what is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government doing to ensure that the people of Lusaka enjoy some peace following what I witnessed on Saturday at a filling station near the Lusaka Inter-city Bus Terminus, that is, three minibuses full of young men clad in berets and waving the PF fist symbol made everybody scamper in all directions, leaving the road for the cadres? That might be one of the many?

 Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we are concerned about these acts of lawlessness. It is for that reason that, in the course of next week, the Ministry of Home Affairs will arrange a meeting with Secretaries-General of all political parties where we can brainstorm and ensure that our supporters do not engage in unlawful demonstrations, processions and other similar activities. We also want to discuss with our colleagues the issues of escorting our leaders to courts or going to airports because those are potential flashpoints of violence. We are concerned about things like that. Therefore, we want these things to be done only within the confines of the Public Order Act.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister agree with me that Zambia’s internal peace and national unity has never, for a very long time, been under such severe stress, almost to the blink of collapse, as it has been under the last three-and-half years of the Patriotic Front’s (PF’s) Administration? The breakdown in the unity and peace of this country is epitomised by the violence orchestrated by PF cadres. As observed by one former member of the party, then hon. Minister of Justice and PF Secretary-General (SG), Mr Wynter Kabimba, SC., the PF is the most violent political party in the history of this country. Further, the hon. Minister issues seemingly good and appetising statements to this House that appear to assure the nation of law and order, and the impartiality of his office. So, why is what he says different from what the cadres are doing? It was only last week when he, as hon. Minister of Home Affairs, issued a good statement, just for us to see PF cadres go to Kanyama Compound and attack people at the funeral of a United Party for National Development (UPND) cadre and injure mourners over the weekend. The cadres even went as far as ransacking the shops of suspected UPND sympathisers. When will we see a nexus of relevance between the statements the hon. Minister makes and the reality on the ground?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I have already cited the Kitwe incident is a good example of how even high-profile members of the PF can be prosecuted under the law and that I am hopeful that the action has sent a strong message to all our members and all members of other political parties that this Government will not tolerate lawlessness regardless of who is involved. That is the approach we shall take. I also said that we want to meet our colleagues in the other political parties next week so that we chart the way forward on saving our children and youth from this violence. This country belongs to all of us. Additionally, I disagree with the claim that the levels of violence we are seeing in the country are unprecedented. I also think that Zambia is still a very peaceful country. We do have some incidences of lawlessness, but we should all work on preventing such incidents because this is not just for the PF Government. It takes two to tangle. So, all of us must condemn violence in this nation for us to move forward. That is why we seek the co-operation of all stakeholders in this exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF JEKE-ROBERT ROAD

684. Mr Mbewe (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the construction of the road from Jeke Village in Naviruli Ward, Chadiza District, to Robert Village in Katete District would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the road in question was graded by the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) in the second quarter of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good answer. It is true that the road was graded, but the people of Chadiza are worried about it because it will be washed away immediately the rainy season starts. Does the ministry have any intentions of gravelling it?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA) will consider that proposal.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

ISSUANCE OF NATIONAL REGISTRATION CARDS IN LUWINGU DISTRICT AND LUBANSENSHI CONSTITUENCY

685. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many National Registration Cards (NRCs) were issued in Luwingu District from January, 2013, to April, 2015, year by year; and

(b)    how many new cards were projected to be issued in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency during the mobile issuance exercise in 2015.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, 6,059 National Registration Cards (NRCs) were issued in Luwingu District of the Northern Province from January, 2013 to April, 2015, as follows:

Year    Cards Issued

2013    1,058

2014        1,447

2015            469

Mr Speaker, the number of NRCs projected to be issued in the 2015 mobile registration exercise was for the entire province, not for each particular constituency. So, the projection for the Northern Province is 80,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the question was specifically about how many new cards were projected to be issued for Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency and it is my considered view that the hon. Deputy Minister can still give a specific answer. I will repeat the question: How many people were issued with NRCs in the just-ended exercise in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, my answer was equally very specific. I said that we are not issuing the NRCs constituency by constituency, but province by province.

I thank you, Sir.

FOREIGN RESERVES

686. Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)    how much money was held in the foreign reserves from 2011 to 2014, year by year, and

(b)    what the projection of foreign reserves for the year 2016 was.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Mvunga): Mr Speaker, the country’s foreign reserves have generally fluctuated between US$2.3 billion and US$3.1 billion between 2011 and 2014.

Sir, in 2011, the country had US $2.3 billion in foreign reserves, which increased to US $3 billion in 2012. However, in 2013, the foreign reserves decreased to US $2.7 billion. In 2014, the reserves increased to US$3.1 billion. The postings for the period are generally within the permissible limits, although it is the hope of the Government to significantly increase our foreign reserves.

Sir, the Government has projected an increase in foreign reserves to US$3.2 billion in 2015 and US$3.5 billion in 2016. The increased projections are based on the future outlook of the Zambian economy.

I thank you, Sir.

IMPROVING FUNDING TO KALABO DISTRICT HOSPITAL

687. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health what measures had been taken to improve funding to Kalabo District Hospital in 2015 and beyond, considering the numerous challenges experienced in 2014.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, the Government has always prioritised healthcare, which contributes to the productivity of the nation. So, the ministry is liaising with the Treasury to increase the allocation to the sector. In turn, that will result in an increase in the allocation to all district hospitals. Further, the Government has engaged its co-operating partners to supplement its technical and financial support in the provision of quality healthcare to Zambians. Additionally, in order to ensure efficiency, the monthly grants to hospitals are now disbursed directly to the districts instead of passing through the ministry headquarters.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I urge the hon. Minister to find time to visit the hospital so that he compares what he will see with what he is saying now.

Mr Speaker: What is your supplementary question?

Mr Miyutu: Sir, ever since district hospitals were realigned from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Community Develop, Mother and Child Health, their monthly grants have been reduced. What is the reason for the reduction and the consistently delayed disbursements?

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, let me begin by confirming that there has been a reduction in the grants that we disburse to district hospitals. In fact, we send K215,276 to Kalabo District. The root cause of the reduction is that of financial constraints.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that even basic things like mattresses are not available at Kalabo District Hospital? Why is the Government not providing funding for such basic things when it is able to fund unimportant things like by-elections?

Mr Chisala: Sir, we are aware that there are such challenges. It is for that reason that we decided that money should be channelled directly to the districts instead of passing through our headquarters. Once the districts receive the funding, they can decide how best to confront some of the problems they face.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Deputy Minister confirm that the Government is now under-funding hospitals.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I have confirmed that, indeed, hospitals are being under-funded because we have got financial challenges.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

ZAMBIA’S EXTERNAL DEBT

688. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Finance what Zambia’s external debt was:

(a)    at the completion point of the Highly-Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) status; and

(b)    as of February, 2015.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, Zambia reached the completion point of the Highly-Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) debt relief initiative on 8th April, 2005. Then, Zambia’s external debt was US$7.2 billion. After the debt relief, the country’s external public debt stock was reduced to US$945 million, as at December, 2006.

Sir, Zambia’s external debt stock, as of February, 2015, was US$4.8 billion.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, what is the time frame in which we expect to pay the US$4.8 billion debt? We could not repay the US$7.2 billion in so long a time that it was written off.

Mvunga: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, let me just emphasise to the hon. Member that the debt stock of US$4.8 billion comprises a number of different loans, including bonds and loans obtained through bilateral and multilateral agreements. These loans have different maturity dates for repayment. At a later stage, if the hon. Member needs the details, such as when each loan will mature and the interest involved, we can provide them. The loans do not all have one repayment.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, given the many external loans that the country is contracting, what is the anticipated external debt stock by the end of this month?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, again, we can give that figure at a later stage. What I have given is the debt stock as it stood on February, 2015, as was asked. If the hon. Member needs the figure for yesterday, we can retrieve it and give it to him.

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, as of February, 2015, the debt stock was US$4.8 billion. If we add the recently contracted bond of US$1.25 billion, we are very dangerously near the US$7.2 billion debt that we had before reaching the Highly-Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) completion point. Can the hon. Minister confirm that Zambians have a reason to worry about the future of this country in terms of debt sustainability.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I think that there are a number of factors we need to consider when comparing the period when our debt stock was US$7.2 billion to where we are now because the country’s economic fundamentals have changed. Then, we had a choking debt stock of US$7.2 billion when our gross domestic product (GDP) was at about US$6 billion. Our current GDP is somewhere around US$27 billion. So, let us see the current debt in its proper context. The domestic revenue collection then was far less than what we are collecting currently. So, there is revenue growth in the economy. I think that, ten to fifteen years ago, our domestic revenue collection was about US$1 billion per annum, but it is now around US$ 5 billion per annum. So, from an affordability perspective, the country is moving forward. Additionally, we are fully aware of what the debt stock is. We have done revenue projections and are confident that we will repay the debts as they fall due.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the Government of the Republic of Zambia borrowed US$1.25 billion last week at an interest rate of 8.5 per cent. Further, can he state whether our debt stock is still sustainable.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member has been following with keen interest the business of this House, he would know that we issued a statement on what happened last week. So, yes, we issued a bond of US$1.25 billion and the interest rate, actually, the coupon rate, is 8.73 per cent, not the number you have mentioned.

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: There was a third question on sustainability.

Mr Mvunga: The debt is affordable, Mr Speaker. We have done the assessments and are aware that our debt is still within manageable limits. Currently, our debt is affordable, in a nutshell.

Sir, one of the things that I will hasten to alert the hon. Members about is that we need to create new revenue opportunities for the country, and the only way we can do that is to invest in infrastructure, which should, then, allow for the expansion of the economy. If we keep this economy static, we will remain with the same domestic revenues and increasing pressure on expenditure and infrastructure. The House has often heard that there is a need to fund hospitals, schools and roads. That is increasing pressure on the fiscus. So, unless we develop the infrastructure and create new opportunities, the country’s economic development will be static.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister, in answering the question from the hon. Member for Mafinga, said that, when the debt stock was cancelled, our gross domestic product (GDP) was 6 billion. We are, now, talking of increased GDP, yet we are unable to meet our commitments without borrowing. So, what makes the hon. Minister so confident that we will meet our commitments with borrowing? Already, there are outstanding debt repayments that we are failing to meet.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I will start with the later question of the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba.

Sir, I am actually not aware of foreign debt commitments that we have not been able to meet of late. So, I think that we need to be very careful when we raise these issues because we are the ones who generate the expenditure. Technically, you can freeze expenditure and allow the economy not to grow, thereby not incurring any debt. It is also not unacceptable, when you want to invest in new ventures, to contract debt because your domestic revenues will not be sufficient to create additional capacity to expand the economy’s infrastructure to meet requirements. For example, if you drive around Lusaka, the electricity that was drawn twenty years is not the same. You cannot keep the source static when you have new buildings and factories coming up. You need to expand the infrastructure, and one way of financing it is through external debt contraction. We have done an assessment, as I said, and found that we are within the international benchmarks. This can be verified. So, we are fairly confident that this debt will be liquidated as it falls due.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, there is very rapid accumulation of debt in four years to almost three-fold. At the same time, the international reserves, which were US$3.6 billion in 2011, not what you said, are now at US$3.1 billion. Additionally, the interest rate on the first bond that you referred to was over 5 per cent. Today, it is over 9 per cent, not what you talked about, namely, the coupon rate. The interest rate is higher. Are these indicators not making you begin to worry that, at some point, you really have to do something else about this debt?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, as we talk about the cost of contracting debt, we also need to look at the current global trends in the capital markets. So, when we assess the affordability of the interest rates, we should look at what is happening on the international markets. We have heard the Federal Reserve Bank announce that it will increase interest rates and the United Kingdom’s Government announce that it will, in the short term, consider raising interest rates to about two per cent on the market. So, the question we should ask is: Why should a foreign investor bring money into an emerging market that is subjected to volatile commodity prices and carry that risk? When we borrow money, it is at market rates.

Mr Speaker, in our view; we have actually struck a very good deal under the current scenario in which our kwacha is depreciating, …

Mr Nkombo: Question!

Mr Mvunga: … there will be elections next year and the energy sector has problems. So, it is a very difficult time to contract debt. The rate at which we have contracted this debt is actually very competitive. Just to give accurate facts, the yield rate on the bond is actually 9.375. So, we are confident about the dynamics, as I have said before. We are confident that we have looked at where we are driving the economy, and that is towards growth. We are also confident that, with additional infrastructure, we can easily drive this economy into a double-digit GDP growth. That is what the Government is aiming at. We are also working for tomorrow, not just for today.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

DECENTRALISATION OF THE ISSUANCE OF TITLE DEEDS

689. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection when the issuance of title deeds would be decentralised to the following levels:

(a)    provincial; and

(b)    district.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the ministry will commence the decentralisation of the issuance of certificate of title to the nine provinces in 2016. However, currently, the Ndola Region Office on the Copperbelt Province is able to issue certificates of title.

Mr Speaker, the Government has set 2016 as the date for the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to commence the decentralisation of its activities, including the issuance of certificates of title, to districts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has talked about decentralisation to the provinces and, later, to the districts. Is the plan there just for hon. Ministers to avoid having a gap in their answers so that the Government does not seem to be silent on questions …

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: … or is there really a plan that we will see implemented in 2016? This is July, 2015. Is the hon. Minister sure that what he has said will be on the ground by January, 2016?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, I am very sure that, all things being equal, by 2016, we will have other provinces issuing title deeds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, currently, most of our people who want to acquire title deeds have to wait for a very long time. Could the hon. Minister indicate, ideally, how long it is supposed to take for a person to obtain a title deed.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, there is a system in place that the President will launch very soon, which will help us issue title deeds within fourteen days.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, for the sake of clarifying the record, the hon. Minister said that the issuance of certificates of title will be extended to nine provinces. However, we now have ten provinces.

Laughter

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, I said nine provinces because Ndola, on the Copperbelt already issues certificates of title. The other nine provinces will be put on the system in 2016.

Interruptions

Speaker: Address the Speaker.

Mr Mwango: I am sorry, Mr Speaker, I meant to say that eight provinces will be put on the system in 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TEACHERS’ HOUSES FOR LIUWA CONSTITUENCY

690. Dr Musokotwane asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether the Government had any plans to construct additional teachers’ houses in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency to improve staff retention in the constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct teachers’ houses in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency to improve staff retention.

Sir, starting in 2016, seventeen schools in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency will be targeted in a phased approach. My humble request to Hon. Dr Musokotwane, as to other hon. Members of Parliament, is that it would be important for him to take a proactive role in consulting with the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) so that there is a priority list of schools to guide us on which ones we should start with.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, two years ago, subsidies on mealie meal, which used to benefit the people of Liuwa and Kalabo, were discontinued by the Government on the pretext that the removal of the subsidies was necessary to free resources for infrastructure development. However, we have waited for two years and are still being promised that infrastructure will built next year, three years after the removal of subsidies. What confidence can the hon. Minister give us that the promised infrastructure will actually be developed in our constituencies?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, since Hon. Dr Musokotwane comes from Kalabo District, he can draw confidence from the ongoing construction of the Kalabo Trades College. Additionally, before the districts were split, Sikongo, where we are constructing a secondary school, was part of Kalabo. Therefore, he can draw confidence from that. He can also draw confidence from the ongoing construction of Libonda Secondary School, although there are hiccups with that projects that Hon. Dr Musokotwane and I are aware of. That goes to demonstrate that the Government is not sitting idly, but developing infrastructure for the people of Kalabo. Even regarding the primary schools, we are committed to fulfilling our promises. Like I said, resources permitting, we will support Hon. Dr Musokotwane, albeit in a phased manner.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, what assurance can the hon. Minister give this House on the construction of teacher’s houses, considering the fact that his ministry issued an infrastructure development plan (IDP) to all of us that indicated the number of classroom blocks and teachers’ houses that would be constructed? However, from 2012 to date, his ministry has not implemented that plan.
 
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we ...

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, …

Mr Mabumba: … we have honoured our commitments, as a ministry, and I would like to give Hon. Jack Mwiimbu an example. When we talked about upgrading 220 primary schools to day secondary school status, it seemed like a far-fetched dream. However, I was in Mwansabombwe over the weekend and saw infrastructure being added to some primary schools. I was also toured Muchinga recently and found that, in almost all the districts, there were additional classrooms and teacher’s houses being built in all the schools that we committed ourselves to upgrading. Unfortunately, I have not been to the Southern Province to check the situation there. However, I have seen enough evidence to the effect that this ministry is going in the right direction in its commitment to infrastructure development.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us a very good answer, that the ministry plans to build teacher’s houses at seventeen schools in Liuwa Constituency. Will he be kind enough to avail to us the plan for the development of teachers’ houses, constituency by constituency, in this country?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, at the end of the Output-Based Budget (OBB) document that was presented for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education are projects that the ministry plans to implement in 2015, granted the list is not complete. So, at the right time, and my guess would be 2016, the Infrastructure Development Plan (IDP) will be given to our colleagues.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has kindly told us that he toured some projects that the ministry undertook to construct in Muchinga and found that all of them were progressing well or on course. However, he had also promised to put build additional classrooms at Kabile, Chifwankula and Katuba schools in Katuba Constituency. I invite him to visit those projects and see if they are on course. So, why are projects moving in some provinces, but not in ours?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the example I gave was about primary schools that were earmarked for upgrading into day secondary schools. I am not sure which hon. Minister will tour Central Province, but I am sure that, if I did it, I would find primary schools that were earmarked for upgrading where additional classrooms and  staff houses have been built.

Dr Kaingu: I will tour Central Province.

Mr Mabumba: Sir, the hon. Minister has just told me that he will tour Central Province. I am sure that we will confirm, when Parliament resumes sitting, that it is happening even in Central Province.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kaoma Central visited my office and told me that there was nothing was taking place at Mulamatila Primary in Kaoma. I am sorry that I am informing him now, but I sent a text message to the PEO for the Western Province and asked why there was nothing happening at the school. In response, she sent me pictures of teachers’ houses and additional classrooms under construction. So, colleagues, we are fulfilling our commitments. However, where there are shortcomings, it is your responsibility to tell us because we are here as your partners in development. You tell us, we will verify for you and confirm things.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Ema Minister aya!

SPECIALISED MEDICAL PERSONNEL FOR LIVINGSTONE GENERAL HOSPITAL

691. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would deploy medical personnel specialised in the following areas to Livingstone General Hospital:

(a)    internal medicine;

(b)    general surgery;

(c)    obstetrics and gynaecology; and

(d)    paediatrics and child health.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the Government has already deployed medical personnel specialised in internal medicine, general surgery, obstetrics and gynaecology, and paediatrics and child health to Livingstone General Hospital.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

DISBURSEMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT EQUALISATION FUND

692. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    at what intervals funds from the Local Government Equalisation Fund were supposed to be released to the end users; and

(b)    what the effect of not releasing the funds timely to local councils was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) is released monthly to the councils.

Mr Speaker, the effect of not releasing the LGEF to councils timely is that the institutions may be unable to implement programmes and projects that funded through the fund.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the fund selectively-disbursed to councils with good performance, those that perform poorly or are all the councils entitled to the funding?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the current position is that all local authorities are entitled to this fund. When I responded to a question related to this topic last week, I indicated that the Government was reviewing the implementation of the fund so that the councils that have fewer resources can start receiving more funding than the ones with a larger revenue base.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, is the failure to start disbursing the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) a result of the Central Government’s lack of funds to disburse, which might lead to our diversion of some funds from the Eurobond from infrastructure development to the local government sector?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I am very reluctant to confirm that the Government does not have funds. Maybe, if that question was directed at the hon. Minister of Finance, he would respond better than the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. What I am aware of is that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing disburses funds to local authorities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, as a result of the inadequacy of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) and its late disbursement, which has continued to dislocate council operations, His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, while addressing a meeting of councillors in Livingstone indicated that councils could collect levies in order to cushion themselves from further financial stress. Additionally, the hon. Deputy Minister has said that the disbursement of the fund differs from council to council, depending on the financial situation of the respective councils. Can he give me an example of just one council that is doing well in this country?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, let me correct the hon. Member who asked me the question. I did not say, on the Floor of this House, that money is released to each council depending on the condition that he has mentioned. What I said was that all local authorities are entitled to this fund and that money is disbursed monthly.

Sir, the crop levy that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, talked about at the Local Government Association of Zambia (LGAZ) conference in Livingstone, has been a hot issue because many local authorities were disadvantaged when it was scraped from their levies. Therefore, we must all cheer the President for re-introducing it. I am actually thankful to you for asking this question because it was necessary to inform the august House what the President declared in Livingstone.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Any example of a council doing well?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, there are many local authorities that are doing well. The Lusaka City Council (LCC) is an example ...

Interruptions

Mr N. Banda: ... of councils that have a huge revenue base. It cannot be compared to a rural council like Shang’ombo.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, at first, I thought that I had not heard the hon. Minister correctly, but he repeated the statement that the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) is released on a monthly basis. However, there are complaints in the councils, including my council in Kasempa, that, sometimes, they do not receive this fund. Is it erratic? Can he assure the nation and the councils that the fund is actually disbursed every month?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the position is that the Government disburses the fund on a monthly basis. Of course, there were times when the funding was not release every month. Sometimes, the local authorities experienced that, which is normal in the disbursement of finances from the Ministry of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am very happy that the crop levy has been re-introduced. We will start collecting it. That aside, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Government is reviewing the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF). Can he tell this House why, in the Act, there is a provision for the Government to give both grants and the LGEF to councils, but the Government gives only the LGEF, not the grants?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the original decision by the Government was to release both the LGEF and grants concurrently so as to enable the local authorities to operate smoothly. The current position, however, is that only the LGEF is disbursed to the local authorities. All I can say is that the Government is reviewing that position so that we can consider releasing both the grants and the LGEF.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: What are the provisions of the law?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, currently, it is only the LGEF that is provided for. That is the position that we are reviewing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has informed the House and the nation that one of the councils that is doing very well is the Lusaka City Council (LCC). However, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, on the Floor of this House, told us that the LCC has been selling properties because it had severe financial constraints. Is he not aware that the council has, of late, struggled financially, and failed to pay salaries and meet its statutory obligations to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and other creditors? Why is he saying that the LCC is doing very well when it is highly indebted?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I made a comparison between the LCC and other councils whose revenue base is smaller.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr N. Banda: This is the correct position.

As a Government, we are aware that the LCC’s revenue base is better than many other local authorities, especially in those on the outskirts of town. This is the comparison I was making.

I thank you, Sir.

ANNUAL FISHING BAN

693. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    how effective the annual fishing ban was;

(b)    if not very effective , what measures the Government was taking to make it effective;

(c)    whether traditional leaders had a specific role to play in implementing the fishing ban; and

(d)    if so, what the role was.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the imposition of the fishing ban is a very effective method of increasing fish stocks because it is effected when the fish is breeding. The situation in Zambia is that the fishing ban has not been as effective as we would want it to be. However, the Government is pleased to inform the House that the situation will soon be remedied.

Sir, to improve the effectiveness of the fishing ban, the Government has implemented the following measures:

(a)    increased the number of fisheries officers by recruiting 115 in 2015;

(b)    increased land and water transport for fisheries officers; and

(c)    enhanced support to the establishment of fisheries collaborative management structures or co-management, which will facilitate the active participation of traditional leaders, fishermen and women, and fish traders in the management of fish resources.

Mr Speaker, traditional leaders play a role in the implementation of the fishing ban by providing leadership, sensitisation and mobilisation of the local communities for the successful implementation of the ban.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, we are heading towards the fishing ban season and the hon. Minister has mentioned some measures that will ensure an effective implementation of the fishing ban. Of the measures to which he referred, which ones have been applied?  

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, all of the measures are being effected. As I stated, 115 fisheries officers have already been employed, and land and water transport has also been enhanced. In short, all the measures are being applied.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I represent a constituency in which there is a lot of fishing and I am aware that the ban is imposed between about 1st January and 31st March. However, does the hon. Minister know that all the measures have not worked? The fisheries officers confiscate the fish from those that disobey the ban and sell it to the community still. Additionally, as far as I know, the fishing ban does not apply to Lake Kariba and fish have no serial numbers …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … to determine which water body it is from. Those are some of the reasons the measures have not worked. Is he aware that they are not working at all?  

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the measures in place are working. If we take stock, in terms of harvests from 2010 to 2014, we will see that the numbers are going up every year.  

Sir, with regard to international waters, there are some protocols that a government cannot single-handedly implement. Therefore, in shared waters, we are engaging the other countries so that we can sing from the same page of the hymn book in managing our waters. The cardinal point is that the measures we have been effecting are working very effectively. It is evident that fish harvests are usually high immediately after the fishing ban.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, on the issue of traditional …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, my sincere apologies to the hon. Member for Luena for disturbing her line of thought. However, I am compelled to raise this point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South, a self-confessed football coach in this House who claimed to be well-trained in one of the Motions, in order not to have travelled with the team to Zimbabwe to effectively apply all the tactics that he talked about on the Floor of this House?

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: His absence rendered the team powerless, hence the results you announced this afternoon. Was he in order to just talk here, but not apply his coaching skills in Zimbabwe?

I seek your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Being the patron of the club, I want to give the hon. Member an opportunity to be heard before I render my ruling.

Hon. Member for Luena, you may continue.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that traditional rulers have the important role of providing leadership and sensitisation in the implementation of the fishing ban. Is he aware that fish stocks in this country have dwindled to the point of extinction because of the very unacceptable fishing methods that are now used? What powers has the ministry given to traditional rulers to be effective monitors? I ask this question because, normally, the people with funny fishing methods simply say that they have the power from the Government.  

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I alluded that traditional leaders have been incorporated into the co-management team, which is the fisheries collaborative management structure. Like we responded to the question on livestock control on the Kafue Flats, we are encouraging communities to be part of the governance system in their areas. In some areas, traditional leaders are able to punish those who use bad, fish-depleting fishing methods to protect our fish during the breeding season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the fishing ban is normally meant to curb indiscriminate fishing. However, there is another threat to the sustainable use of our fish resources, namely, unorthodox fishing methods. So, what measures have we put in place to stop unorthodox fishing methods?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Namulambe: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Lubinda: ... the annual fishing ban is not necessarily imposed to stop the indiscriminate fishing, but to allow for fish to breed. That is why it is imposed between December and March, when the fish in our natural water bodies breed. The illegal fishing that the hon. Member has referred to, which is referred to as illegal unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing, is one in which totally different methods are used. Regarding this problem, I have to state that the reason we are increasing the number of fisheries officers is partly to enable us to effectively enforce the fishing ban and regulate fishing methods.

Mr Speaker, only last weekend, His Excellency the President launched the Forty-Eighth Marine Unit, which will assist the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to ensure that, when there is a fishing ban in Zambia, fishermen from neighbouring countries do not encroach on Zambian waters to fish, where Zambia shares water bodies with other countries.

Sir, last week, I attended a meeting of the African, Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) ministers responsible for fisheries. One of the issues that discussed was the common imposition of fishing bans on shared water bodies.

Mr Speaker, let me end by stating that our ministry is in the process of concluding the Fisheries Policy, which will introduce other measures, including the strengthening of the role of communities and traditional leaders in the management of the fish resources, in our natural water bodies, ponds and dams.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Minister that Hon. Miyutu has been whispering to me that he gets so emaciated between December and March every year because he does not have the nutrition that he gets from fish in his area. He is asking why the people of Kalabo have been treated so differently from those who fish on Lake Kariba, where there is no fishing ban.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I ask Hon. Mwiimbu to whisper back to Hon. Miyutu ...

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: ... that, at the recent ACP ministries of fisheries meeting held in Brussels, we agreed that all countries that share water resources will impose fishing bans simultaneously so that the people of Kalabo are not treated differently from the people of Siavonga. Additionally, we are aware that, during December to March, our communities that are dependent on fish protein face a huge challenge. That is why this Government has decided to support aquaculture. So, I encourage Hon. Miyutu and all hon. Members who represent constituencies that are suitable for aquaculture to get in touch with our District Agricultural Co-ordinators (DACOs) so that they may be informed on the programmes that we have to encourage fish farming. Only last week, again, His Excellency the President announced that the Government had entered into an agreement with the Africa Development Bank (AfDB) for a facility for improving aquaculture in Zambia. When that agreement has been signed, we shall inform the nation accordingly.

Sir we are aware of the challenges that are faced by our fish protein-dependent communities and would like to provide alternative sources of fish to them when there is a fishing ban.

I thank you, Sir.

KABOMPO DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL WELFARE

694.    Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    when the Department of Community Development and Social Welfare offices in Kabompo District would be rehabilitated; and

(b)    when the department would be provided with a utility motor vehicle to enhance operations.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Limata): Mr Speaker, the Kabompo District offices of the Department of Community Development and Social Welfare will be rehabilitated at a cost of K16,126, as per the request submitted by the district, by the third quarter of this year.

Sir, Kabompo District was provided with a new utility motor vehicle to enhance operations in May, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, after their rehabilitation in the third quarter, will the offices be provided with furniture, which the department does not have?

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, we will do that immediately after the project has been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

FISH IMPORTS

695.    Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    why the Government allowed the importation of fish into the country;

(b)    who the major importers of fish were;

(c)    whether the Zambia Bureau of Standards inspected the fish imported into the country; and

(d)    if so, how the findings were disseminated to the public

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Ng’onga): Mr Speaker, the Government allows the importation of fish in order to meet the current national fish demand of approximately 155,000 metric tonnes per annum, which is much higher than the national fish production, both capture and aquaculture fisheries, of 100,107 metric tonnes.

Mr Speaker, the major fish importers are Capital Fisheries Ltd and Lake Harvest.

Sir, the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) does not inspect imported fish. In the meantime, in collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development, through the Department of Fisheries, it is developing standards for both dry and fresh fish products, which will ensure that we import wholesome fish. It should be noted, though, that an importer is obliged to apply for an import permit from the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, in which specific issues, such as origin of the fish, have to be considered before the permit can be issued.

Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that ZABS does not inspect imported fish, there are no findings that are disseminated.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the Tilapia fish that is imported mostly by Capital Fisheries, tastes very bad.

Interruptions

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, having admitted that there is no inspection mechanism for this fish that comes into the country, what will the hon. Minister do to ensure that we do not get sick from eating the fish?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I regret the mentioning of a particular business enterprise in the manner in which it has been mentioned because it has an effect on the business. Additionally, let me clarify that the question that the hon. Deputy Minister was answering …

Mr Mbewe: Umadyamo?

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: …was with regard to whether the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) inspects imported fish. In his response, he said that the ZABS did not inspect. That did not mean that there was no inspection because there are very regular inspections on any food commodities that come into Zambia and there are very laid-down procedures followed by importers, who are regulated under the Food and Drugs Act and the Public Health Act.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Health and his counterparts at Local Government and Housing, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health have institutions that ensure that no food items come into Zambia without being inspected. I am sure that the hon. Member who has asked this question remembers that, not too long ago, about three or four years ago, there was a case of some meat that came into Zambia with formaldehyde, which was confiscated and stopped. We could not have noticed that had it not been for the fact that there are systems in place that ensure that the food that comes in Zambia is wholesome and healthy for the consumption of Zambians. So, if the hon. Member is not happy with the taste of the fish imported by a particular enterprise, he is at liberty to choose another source. I also encourage him to consider using taste-enhancing additives …

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: … to improve the taste of the fish. That is the reason the additives, such as curry powder, are on the market. I do not think that it is fair to state that a particular importer imports non-wholesome fish. If there is evidence to that, I suggest to my colleague that he brings the matter to the attention of the relevant authorities instead of using Parliament to campaign against any particular importer of commodities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Before I allow further questions, I just want to provide some guidance.

Hon. Members, I think that the point that has been made by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is fundamental, procedurally and legally. As you know, our proceedings are privileged. So, when we make some statements, right or wrong, but especially if they are wrong, and they put other members of our society, whether individuals or entities, at a disadvantage, the disadvantage party has no recourse. So, we should always approach these matters with utmost circumspection. If there is something badly wrong, as has been suggested, there are agencies that we have established and given the responsibility of conducting investigations so that people are given a very fair opportunity to state their position and, possibly, defend themselves. So, I think that we just need to make very generalised statements. I have said it before, even when we debated the characters of individuals, that we should be similarly mindful of how we refer to people who have no recourse even to the courts of law. These are absolute privileges that we must enjoy here in order to promote freedom of expression but, like any other freedom, it must be exercised with circumspection and fairness. So, I will not allow the questions.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, people who are used to eating fresh-water fish will find sea fish tasteless if they ate it. Can the hon. Minister confirm that, in fact, fish from salty water tastes different from fresh-water fish, hence the perception that it tastes bad.

Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I am sure that even my colleague, Hon. Namulambe, knows that salty-water fish is different from fresh-water fish. So, I do not think that he was oblivious of that fact when he made that comparison. He was, actually, comparing fresh-water fish grown outside Zambia with the fresh-water fish in Zambia. For Hon. Muntanga’s sake, I want to say that I am fully alive to the fact that there is a big difference even just in appearance between fresh-water fish and salty-water fish.

So, yes, I am aware, Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to put to the hon. Minister that, in the case of the aromatic aldehydes scandal, the alarm was raised by a member of the public, not the system, as he put it. It was a public concern that was brought to the Floor of this House. Getting to the case of the imported fish, is he aware of the types of preservatives that the importers use and their long-term or short-term effects on human beings? I understand that some of the fish might be imported from places as far as China.

Sir, I am sorry if I seem to be delving around what you have just ruled on, but we know that the Chinese are known to fast-track things, as the case is in their poultries where, instead of the chickens maturing in the six or eight weeks period that we know, they mature  in two weeks or earlier.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, to be honest, I am at a loss because I did not really follow what the question was. However, I think that there was something about who reported the aromatic aldehydes scandal and how the Chinese raise chickens. Anyway, let me just choose one of many questions.

Sir, the procedure for importing food includes the issuance of a Certificate of Analysis by the Food Safety Laboratory or a Manufacturer’s Analysis Report from the country of origin. For meat and, especially, fish and their products or by products, additional tests for formaldehydes and heavy metals are required before they are allowed into Zambia.

Mr Speaker, let me also add that, when I mentioned the different Government institutions that have a role to play in the importation of food, I omitted the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, which administers the Biochemical Safety Act and has a Bio-Safety Authority, which also plays a role in the inspection of food imports. I hope that, with the information I have provided, the House will now know that we have measures in place to prevent any unwholesome food from being brought into the country. So, I assure the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central that Zambia is in safe hands in the PF Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the 55,000 metric tonnes fish shortfall is an opportunity for job and wealth creation for our people. That being the case, what is the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development doing to facilitate Zambians’ access to affordable financing for aquacultural projects so that we can reduce the importation of fish from countries like China?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question.

 Sir, when your Committee on Agriculture presented your report, it delved into this matter very well and came up with numerous recommendations. When responding to that report, I indicated, on the Floor of the House, that the ministry was working very hard to capture the potential that existed in the country. We agreed with the report that more than 20 million ha of land in Zambia is covered by fresh water, which is the most important resource for both capture fishing and aquaculture. Earlier, I mentioned that, while in Nchelenge last weekend, His Excellency the President announced that we had entered into an Agreement with the AfDB for a facility that will be used to promote aquaculture. Let me add that we are in serious discussions with the European Union (EU) on the setting up of an additional fund to support the development of aquaculture. In addition, the hon. Deputy Minister has read out a host of aquaculture enterprises that seem to be doing very well. So, aquaculture is a very important growth sub-sector of agriculture in Zambia and all of us are encouraged to ask for funding from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) or the private capital market to enable us to venture into this business because there is tremendous potential. I hope that the hon. Member for Mafinga will be among the first to ask for assistance from us.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

FISH FARMING

696. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    who the major fish farmers in the country were;

(b)    how much fish, in percentage points, was produced annually by the farmers;

(c)    what the main species of fish produced was; and

(d)    what measures the Government had taken to encourage sustainable fish farming in view of depleting fish levels in water bodies.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the major fish farmers in the country are:

Fish Farmers                                    Location

Kafue Fisheries Limited     Kafue

    Kariba Harvest     Lake Kariba, Siavonga

    Yalelo Limited     Lake Kariba, Siavonga

    Savannah Streams            Chongwe

    Nega Nega    Mazabuka and Lake Kariba, Siavonga

    Mpende Fisheries    Lake Tanganyika, Nsumbu
    
Miyengwe Farms    Masaiti

John Kane Friendship Farms    Luanshya
    
Macademia Farms    Kitwe

Kalimba Farms    Lusaka

Mr Speaker, the following are the tonnes of fish produced annually by the farmers mentioned and their percentages of the total national outputs:

Year    National Total     Capture Fisheries     Aquaculture

            Tonnes    Percentage    Tonnes    Percentage

 2010        85,931            76,396               88.9            9,535         11.10

2011        79,655            69,364        87.08            10,291        12.92

2012        93,626            80,638        86.13            12,988        13.87

2013        95,458            75,187        78.76            20,271        21.24

2014        100,107            80,826        80.74            19,281        19.26

Sir, the main species of fish produced are various types of the bream, namely:

(a)    Nile tilapia;

(b)    Three-Spotted Bream, commonly known as Kafue Bream. In the Western Province, it is locally known as ‘Njinji’;

(c)    Red-Breasted Bream, locally known as ‘Mpende’ in the Northern Province or Mbufu in the Western Province; and

(d)    the Green-Headed Bream, locally known as Pale in Luapula Province.

Sir, some of the measures that the Government has taken to encourage sustainable fish farming in view of depleting fish levels in our water bodies include:

(a)    the development of the National Aquaculture Development Plan, which has recognised the commercialisation of the sub-sector and the promotion of private sector participation. That is meant to entice farmers to view fish farming as a business rather than subsistent activity;

(b)    the establishment of aquaculture parks, a concept similar to that of farming blocks;

(c)    conducting of environmental assessments as a way of promoting the entry of small-scale fish-cage farmers;

(d)    the implementation of a programme to improve the Kafue Bream through selected breeding in order to increase yields from the local fish. That will discourage fish farmers from using foreign fish species that have negative impacts on the biodiversity of local fish; and

(e)    the training of fish farmers in fish seed and feed production.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, we have heard the types of fish bred and farmed. That aside, we used to have some important indigenous fish breeds in our natural water bodies. What is the Government doing to avoid the extinction of indigenous breeds of fish?

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, through research institutions, is researching on those species that can easily become extinct. The research institutions are also breeding the extinction-threatened fish species on their facilities so that, after the fish have increased, it can be re-introduced in its natural water bodies. For example, there is a programme meant to protect the barbel fish and catfish from extinction and research is conducted on the two species. Later, the fish being bred will be re-introduced into the natural waters so that its population can increase.

I thank you, Sir.

EUROBOND ALLOCATION TO THE UNIVERSITY TEACHING HOSPITAL AND ZAMBIA RAILWAYS LIMITED

697. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)    how much money from the US$750 million Eurobond was allocated to the University Teaching Hospital and Zambia Railways Limited;

(b)    of the money allocated, how much had been utilised, as of March, 2015; and

(c)    when the remainder would be utilised.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health was allocated US$29.4 million, which translates into K170 million. These funds were intended to support the modernisation of tertiary hospitals, namely, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Ndola Central Hospital (NCH), Kitwe Central Hospital (KCH) and the Livingstone General Hospital (LGH). Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) was allocated US $120 million, equivalent to K517 million.

Sir, as at 31st March, 2015, all funds allocated to the UTH and other hospitals had been utilised to support the running contracts for infrastructure and civil works. In regard to the ZRL, K46 million had not been utilised, as at 31st March, 2015. These funds are committed to the payment for passenger coaches, locomotives, truck infrastructure, material and equipment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, Eurobond funds are not cheap. The interest rate is now at 8 per cent. So, they cannot be treated like our Budget funds. Is there a special criterion used when allocating its funds to deserving projects or are is it just allocated by decree?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, it is a common practice in budgeting to prioritise projects based on different sets of criteria. For projects that are commercially driven, you look at the rates of return on the investment while some socio-economic projects require you to look at things like human capital development, our commitments to the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), which are now translating into social development goals, health and education issues. So, there are sets of criteria that we use in determining which projects to fund from which money. I guess, the question of concern should be: How do we disburse this money? We need to be careful because, even after we have prioritised, we will still not contract until after we have actually sourced the money. So, there will be a time lag between the point at which we contract and the point at which we disburse the funds. That is what causes the time difference between when the contract was awarded and when the funds are disbursed.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Deputy Minister needs to admit that there is a lack of capacity to absorb the Eurobond money. For instance, I want him to confirm that the audit report for 2013 indicated misuse of some of this money by Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL). For example, some of the money was used to tile the ZRL Headquarters. Could he confirm or deny the fact that there is a deficiency in the absorption capacity or preparedness to utilise the money.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, with regard to the audit report, I would have to read it and, then, report back to the House. However, when the money is allocated, the intention is to have a transparent and accountable process that ensures that it is not wasted. Where monies are not disbursed, we put it into a maximum interest-earning account to preserve its value against being eroded by the finance charges. That is really a practicality issue and a timing difference in terms of constructing versus ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was explaining that the ZRL situation is the same as that of other projects. There will be a timing issue in all of them. From the Treasury point of view, what we do in these circumstances put the funds in investment accounts that yield optimal interests to shield against the finance charges on the borrowed funds.

The hon. Member also mentioned the issue of capacity building. That is an area that requires continuous improvement. The Government will keep refining and redefining it to make sure that we deliver the projects on time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, although the hon. Minister said that he would get back to Hon. Namugala on the issue of audits, the Eurobond disbursement has been audited and the information is in the public domain. More than half of the amount allocated to the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) was used to order equipment from either Canada or the United States of America (USA) and there was a controversy because the equipment had not been delivered nine months later. What is the current position on that matter?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, as I said in an earlier response, there are practical imperatives between the time we contract and the time we receive the equipment we procured. There may be some inefficiencies but, as I said, these areas require continuous redefining of processes. You will appreciate that His Excellency the President has set up a unit within the Presidency for project monitoring and evaluation. That is a clear example of some of the new initiatives that are being brought into play to avoid the deficiencies, going forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, from the allocation to Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL), was there any money spent on the Mulobezi Railway Line? If so, is the Government happy with the works that were done? I ask this question because that railway line is a death trap.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I do not have the exact details on the Mulobezi Railway Line but, again, if the hon. Member wishes, we can fish out the details and provide them to him.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I do not know what comes first between borrowing money and knowing what to spend it on. In this case, it looks like the Government borrowed the money and, then, started looking for project to spend it on. So, since the borrowed money was just kept idly, in which portfolio in Zambia will it be invested? Currently, an investment bank charges more than 8 per cent interest on United States (US) Dollar loans, which means that, if the Government invests the money in a bank, it will accrue interest at about 6 per cent. However, we borrowed the money at 9 per cent interest. So, which prudent financial institution has the Government put the money in to get interest at a rate higher than 9 per cent?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, it is a ‘chicken and egg’ question that the hon. Member has asked me. Does a person contract before raising the finances or vice-versa? I think that prudence dictates that we do the latter. In this case, the projects to be funded were identified. In the road sector, for example, we know which roads deserved to be funded. We know, for example, the feeder roads in rural areas that need to be upgraded. I reiterate that it is not prudent fiscal practice to engage a contractor and go through the tender process before you secure the money. Of course, there will always be a timing difference between the time you sign the agreement and the time you receive the money. Thereafter, you have to go through the tendering process and all the documentation before giving a project to a contractor. These are practical imperatives that we cannot avoid.

Mr Speaker, as regards where to invest the money before it is disbursed, there are different options that are available to us. We look at them and invest in the options that give us the maximum returns to cushion the finance charges on the Eurobonds.

Sir, it is a well-known fact in banking and finance that lending and deposit rates will never be the same. Otherwise, there would be no banks because, then, a bank would lend money at 9 per cent and take deposits at 10 per cent. That cannot happen. That is just not the way the world works where banking is concerned. So, unless we redefine our banking system to one that is uniquely Zambian, I do not see how else we can do things.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chikwanda: Hear, hear!

FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE OF ZAMTEL

698. Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    what the performance of the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) in the 2014 financial year was;

(b)    how much profit was made in the same period; and

(c)    what the financial status was, as of March, 2015.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Siamunene): Mr Speaker, the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) recorded a strong financial and non-financial performance in 2014 by growing its revenue, customer numbers and number of sites, among other key performance indicators, as follows:

Category        Performance

    2013    2014

Revenue     K530,000,000    K615,000,000

Excess Revenue Over Expenditure    K108,000,000    K80,000,000

Number of Customers    1,342,000    1,481,000

Number of Physical Sites    724    902

Number of Third-Generation (3G) Sites    291    518

Mr Speaker ZAMTEL made a loss of K161 million in 2014 as a result non-cash items like wear and tear of assets or depreciation and revaluation losses on account of exchange rate fluctuations. However, it is important to note that the company’s revenue of K615 million was higher than the operating expenses of K535 million, a difference of K80 million, in 2014. That enabled the company to invest in new equipment and pay off some historical liabilities.

Mr Speaker, as at the end of March, 2015, ZAMTEL had generated gross revenue of K175 million, representing over 21 per cent growth in comparison with the K145 million earned during the same period in 2014. Revenue in excess of operating costs was recorded at K15 million while the loss was K72 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the losses that the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) makes, such as K161 million in 2014 and K72 million, as at March, 2015, to me, indicates poor performance. Remember that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) under the former President, Mr Rupiah Banda, had opted to privatise the company on account of its poor performance. Now that it is making these losses, as can be seen in its performance from 2013 to 2015, does the hon. Minister not think that the MMD Government made the right decision when it privatised the company?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I think that the decision by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to renationalise the company was the correct one. If you look at some of the losses we are talking about, they were due to historical liabilities that the company has been off-setting. Sooner or later, it we will become profitable.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, early this year, the Auditor-General (AG) released a report on the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) that showed that, in fact, it has been a perennial loss-maker since it was repossessed and that the company was technically bankrupt. In the interest of good corporate governance, would the owners of the company, that is, the Executive, consider changing the management or systems to enable a more competent management to manage the company and turn its fortunes around?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question. However, the management team at ZAMTEL is very competent, skilled and qualified to run the institution, but we are looking at a number of issues in an effort to recapitalise the company. If we do that, we will put it on its way to profitability.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to say that I support the privatisation of ZAMTEL …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … because it is a very important institution, just like a bank. As a nation, we need to have something that is our own. My question to the hon. Minister is: When will this Government recapitalise the company so that it can perform well? Additionally, when will we reduce political interferences in its running? If we do these two things, I am sure that it can do better than it is doing currently.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe.

Sir, the Government is doing all it can to recapitalise ZAMTEL.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: What we can do is seek funding from the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, on political interference in the company, there is none. We have left ZAMTEL to run as a profitable and sustainable company.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Masebo: On a point of correction, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that there is litigation surrounding the manner in which the Patriotic Front (PF) repossessed the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) ZAMTEL after the concession entered into by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). That being the case, how sure is the Government that the outcome of the litigation by LAP Green will be in our favour for public money to be used to recapitalise the company?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central.

Sir, the issues surrounding the repossession of the company from LAP Green are in the courts of law. So, all I can say is that, as we are concerned, what we did was the correct thing. We need to revamp and recapitalise the company because it belongs to the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, who are the members of the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) Board of Directors, especially the board chairperson?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would have loved to give the hon. Member the names he seeks but, since he has asked a new question, I did not prepare the information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, seeing as matters that are in court are being discussed on the Floor of this House, I would like the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to respond to my question on what would be the likely effects …

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is a point of clarification.

For the record, since we are discussing an issue of policy here and I have been told that I said that I supported the privatisation of ZAMTEL, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … I wish to correct that. I do not support the privatisation of essential national assets like ZAMTEL. What I meant to say was that I supported the nationalisation of the company.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, may you continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was asking the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication what would be the likely effect of the decision of the London Court on the operations of the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question from the hon. Member, but we cannot subjudice the outcome of the courts. So, I choose to be mute on that issue and wait until it has been resolved.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the management team at the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) is highly competent and I agree with him that most Zambian officials or professionals are certainly very highly competent. However, the shareholders, in this case the Government, have a board that is answerable to them and the losses should be blamed entirely on the board…

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Yes!

Mr Simfukwe: … that oversees the management of the company, not the management and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO). Can the hon. Minister tell me, at least, two actions that the Government has taken on the board since the company started making losses.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have taken several actions. Firstly, we have looked for refinancing activities.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mukanga: Secondly, we have changed the board. One issue that is very clear regarding the losses we are talking about is that they were inherited, but are now being cleared. There is a reduction …

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is a way of expressing yourself in that fashion.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I like the liberty in this House, but it is important that we look at the figures and speak about them. This is what is happening here.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

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BILLS

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed.

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2015

The Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2015
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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1852 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 29th July, 2015.

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