Debates - Wednesday 25th March, 2015

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Wednesday 25th March, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Deputy Speaker: I order you, Hon. Miles Sampa, Member of Parliament for Matero Constituency and Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, to stand behind the Bar of the House. I also instruct the Sergeant-At-Arms to take the Speaker’s Mace and stand behind the hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Miles Bwalya Sampa, MP, was escorted to the Bar by the Sergeant-At-Arms.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, on 11th December, 2014, the hon. Mr Deputy Speaker, in his capacity as Chairperson of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, received a letter from Hon. Y. D. Mukanga, MP, Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, and Chief Whip, informing him that Hon. Miles Sampa, MP, Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, had been absent from the sittings of the House without permission from the hon. Mr Deputy Speaker, the hon. Mr Speaker or, indeed, the Chief Whip. The letter from the Chief Whip read as follows:

“Dear Sir

Reference is made to the above captioned matter.

Sir, the Hon Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, and Member of Parliament for Matero Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Miles Sampa, MP, has been absent from the sittings of the House since 28th October, 2014, without the permission of the Hon Mr Speaker or myself.

You may wish to know, Sir, that on 4th December, 2014, in my capacity as Chief Whip, I wrote a letter to the Hon Deputy Minister requesting him to explain his absenteeism from the House and why the matter should not be referred to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services for consideration. I further requested the Hon Deputy Minister to reply to the letter by Monday, 8th December 2014, but to date no response has been received from him.

Sir, in view of the above, I submit the matter to you, Sir, as Chairperson of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, for consideration by the Committee in line with Standing Order No. 151(2) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2005, which vests the power to consider any case of a Member’s absenteeism from the House without the permission of the Hon. Mr Speaker or, indeed, the Chief Whip, in the Committee.

Yours faithfully
Hon. Y. D. Mukanga, MP
Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, and Chief Whip”

Hon. Members, in line with Standing Order 151(3), which provides that, where a Member is absent from the sittings of the House without obtaining permission, a letter shall be written to the Member ordering him or her to appear before the Committee, Hon. Miles Sampa, MP, was written to and requested to appear before the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services to answer to the charge. The hon. Deputy Minister responded as follows:

“Dear Madam,


Madam, further to the letter dated 26th February 2015, which references the requirement to appear before the above-mentioned Committee. I have not received the letter in reference from the Chief Whip, Hon. Y. D. Mukanga, MP Had I received the letter I would have immediately responded with an explanation for my absence. As a Member of Parliament I take my responsibilities with the utmost priority and gravity.

Madam, the explanation for my absence is that, like most of our nation at the time, I was in mourning over the loss of His Excellency Michael Chilufya Sata. He was not only President, but for me, he was my uncle, a father figure and a mentor. Dealing with both the shock and loss of such a colossus in my life, and being in mourning, unfortunately other aspects of my responsibilities were inadequately fulfilled.

I sincerely apologise for my absence during the mourning and seek your compassion. I further beg the understanding of the Committee of Privileges, Absences and Support Services, as I will be travelling, on duty on the requested date for my appearance before the Committee and earnestly request that it may be rescheduled. Thank you for this consideration.
God Bless,

Yours faithfully,
Hon. Miles Sampa, MP”

Hon. Members, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services met to carefully study the matter and determine why Hon. Sampa, MP, had been absent from the House, and whether the circumstances leading to the absenteeism justified a verdict of guilty of breach of Parliamentary privilege. The Committee was further tasked to determine an appropriate punishment to mete out against the hon. Deputy Minister if found guilty.

Hon. Members, in line with Parliamentary practice and procedure, and the rules of natural justice, Hon. Sampa, MP, appeared before the Committee. He was, therefore, accorded an opportunity to be heard on the charge of absenteeism from the House. In his submission to the Committee, Hon. Sampa, MP, admitted having been absent from the House. He also informed the Committee that, during the material period, he had been mourning the late President, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata.  He, therefore, attributed his absenteeism to the emotional distress that the death of Mr Sata, whom he said had not only been the Republican President, but also his uncle, had had on him. He, however, admitted that, that did not justify his failure to follow the correct procedure for seeking leave of absence when one cannot avoid being absent from the sittings of the House. He further said that he regretted his conduct and begged the Committee to exercise leniency in determining his case.

Hon. Members, after considering the matter and hearing the hon. Deputy Minister’s submission, the Committee established that, by being absent from the House without permission from the hon. Mr Deputy Speaker, the hon. Mr Speaker or the Chief Whip, the hon. Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry was guilty of the offence of absenteeism from the House and, therefore, in breach of Parliamentary privilege.

Hon. Members, in determining the punishment to mete out on Hon. Sampa, MP, the Committee referred to Standing Order 151(2), which prescribes only two penalties for the offence.  It states:
“The Committee shall examine every case where a member has been absent for any period from sittings of the House or any sessional committee without the permission of the Speaker or the Chief Whip and report whether the absence should be condoned or circumstances of the case justify that the House should, by resolution, either direct the Speaker to reprimand such member or suspend him or her from the services of the National Assembly for such a period as it may determine.”

In determining whether to recommend to the House to either reprimand or suspend the hon. Deputy Minister, the Committee considered the oral and written evidence as well as the mitigating factors presented to it. The Committee noted that, taking into account the fact that the hon. Deputy Minister did not waste its time, but was quick to admit being absent from the House without permission, and had shown deep remorse over his conduct, it was of the view that it would be too harsh to suspend the hon. Deputy Minister and resolved that he be reprimanded before the Bar of the House.

Hon. Miles Sampa, MP, in line with the recommendation of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, I now reprimand you.

Hon. Sampa, as Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, you have the important responsibility of accounting for the administration of Government policies, projects and programmes under your portfolio to this House. In order for you to effectively and efficiently do that, you are required to be in the House at all times. However, according to the Members’ attendance record for the last meeting of the House, you were absent from the House for twenty-two days. You should know that absenteeism of an hon. Member from the House, especially one who is an hon. Deputy Minister, for such a prolonged period without permission from the Chief Whip reflects adversely on the dignity and integrity of the House.
Hon. Sampa, MP, your absence for such a long period was a serious error of judgment on your part and amounted to an abandonment of your duties not only to this House, as an hon. Deputy Minister, but also to the people of Matero Constituency, whom you represent, and the nation at large. I, therefore, warn you to desist from such conduct, as repetition of the same will attract a stiffer penalty.  I trust that, in future, you will endeavour to abide by the rules of this House and avoid the consequences of their breach.

I now order you to read your apology and, thereafter, resume your seat.



The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, I, Miles Sampa, Member of Parliament for Matero Constituency and Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, do unreservedly apologise to you and this august House for being absent from the sittings of the House during its last meeting for more than twenty days without obtaining permission from you or the Chief Whip, contrary to the rules of the House.

Mr Speaker, I have carefully listened to your guidance and wish to assure you and this august House that, in future, I will be an exemplary Member in abiding by the rules and procedures of this House, and will not absent myself from the sittings of the House other than in accordance with the rules of the House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sampa resumed his seat.




The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to make a statement on the continuous acts of gender-based violence (GBV) and harassment of women and girls in Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, from the outset, I want to state that human rights are basic rights and freedoms to which all human beings are entitled, regardless of their gender. These rights include the right to life, freedom of thought, expression and equality before the law. Sadly, our society has continued to witness the violation of these rights, leading to vices like GBV, which has not only claimed lives, but also left survivors, in some cases, with life-long mental disorders, stigma and physical injuries. Ultimately, such survivors require intensive counselling and rehabilitation in places where the environment is not conducive.

Sir, in the recent past, the reports on GBV cases in Zambia have shown an increased level of brutality. The cases have ranged from physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse as well as the continued observance of harmful traditional practices. Records at the Victim Support Unit (VSU) of the Zambia Police Force show an upward trend in the incidence of GBV, with 6,716 cases reported in 2008, 8,382 in 2009, 8,467 in 2010, 11,914 in 2011, 12,924 in 2012, 10,207 in the first three quarters of 2013 and 12,999 in 2014 countrywide.

Mr Speaker, GBV is clearly not an isolated problem, but merely one of the many manifestations of the widespread violation of human rights, and has had serious implications on Zambia’s development agenda. It transcends geographical, sex, class, cultural, age, racial, religious and political affiliations. However, I am happy to inform the nation, through this House, that my Government has taken the bull by its horns and it will provide leadership in efforts to minimise the scourge. In this respect, my ministry …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on both my right and left!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in fact, this is an example of GBV.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, my ministry is co-ordinating the establishment of shelters for survivors of GBV, and one-stop centres that will offer integrated services, as provided for in the Anti-Gender-Based Violence Act, No. 1 of 2011. There are also several legal provisions in place currently that address acts of violence against, and harassment of, women and girls in Zambia. They include:

(a)    Chapter 1 of the Constitution of Zambia;

(b)    the Anti-Gender-Based Violence Act No. 1 of 2011;

(c)    the Penal Code, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia;

(d)    the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill No. 15 of 2005;

(e)    the Criminal Procedure Code, Chapter 88 of the Laws of Zambia;

(f)    the Education Act of 2011;

(g)     the Anti-Human-Trafficking  Act No. 11 of 2008;

(h)    the Marriage Act, Chapter 50;

(i)    the Matrimonial Causes Act No. 20 of 2007;

(j)    the Legitimacy Act, Chapter 52 of the Laws of Zambia;

(k)    the Affiliation and Maintenance Act, Chapter 64 of the Laws of Zambia; and

(l)    the Employment Act, Chapter 268 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, these laws provide an adequate legal framework for us to address acts of violence and harassment against women and should serve as a deterrent to would-be offenders, as they provide for the prevention and prosecution of GBV cases, the rehabilitation of victims of GBV and empowerment of women in general. For example, sexual offences carry a minimum penalty of a fifteen-year prison sentence. However, I know that more work needs to be done, especially as regards awareness-raising, the enforcement of all the laws that I have referred to and implementing programmes to support the laws against GBV. Therefore, my ministry is currently in the process of developing a robust communication strategy that will match the extent of the problem. We are also developing an implementation strategy and framework, and approaching some institutions that can partner us in fighting GBV, which include progressive traditional leaders, civil society organisations (CSOs) and religious leaders.

Mr Speaker, let me inform this august House that GBV takes many forms, …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order on the left!

Prof. Luo: ... the most common of which are:

(a)    physical violence, which includes spouse battering, slapping, kicking, punching, hitting, pinching, chocking, rape, defilement, sodomy, statutory rape, incest throwing things at the spouse, assault using weapons and murder;

(b)    psychological, emotional and mental torture;

(c)    forced marriages, child marriages or child prostitution;

(d)    sexual harassment;

(e)    sexual cleansing; and

(f)    verbal assault.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, according to a Report of the Technical Committee on the Strengthening of Laws, Enforcement Mechanisms and Support Systems Relating to Gender-Based Violence, Particularly against Women, Girls and Children published in July, 2000, the following are some of the causes of GBV:

(a)    poverty, as it especially affects women and young people;

(b)    women’s low socio-economic status;

(c)    unequal power relationships due to the patriarchal nature of our society;

(d)    early marriages;

(e)    adultery and suspicion of infidelity;

(f)    excessive alcohol and substance abuse by perpetrators;

(g)    denial of conjugal rights, especially sex;

(h)    the practice of charging bride price, which reinforces a man’s proprietary rights over the wife, even when asserting this ‘right’ means using force;

(i)    polygamous practices, which lead to suspicions of unfaithfulness, as men in polygamous marriages are not able to satisfy all their wives;

Hon. Members: Question!

Hear, hear!

(j)    Intermarriages, which lead to cultural conflicts if not properly handled;


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, that is GBV.

(k)    traditional practices that allow a husband to chastise his wife once in a while as a form of discipline;

(l)    children who witness or are the victims of violence may believe that violence is a reasonable way to resolve conflicts between people. Boys who learn that women are not to be valued or respected, and see violence against women are more likely to abuse women when they grow up; and

(m)    socialisation and societal norms in our country.

Mr Speaker, in order to address the factors that promote violence against, and harassment of, women and girls, my ministry will continue to play the following roles:

(a)    co-ordinating and monitoring the implementation of the laws that I referred to, especially the Anti-Gender-Based Violence Act, No. 1 of 2011;

(b)    building the capacity of all stakeholders, including hon. Members of Parliament, members of different political parties, women, boys and girls;

(c)    promoting the rights of women and girls across the country, and informing them that there is no better being than a woman in this world;

(d)    raising awareness among men, women, boys, girls and children; and

(e)    empowering women and girls to have self esteem and be assertive.

Mr Speaker, in order to spearhead community responses to GBV, the ministry is establishing task forces across the country, which will be part of the District Development Co-ordinating Committees (DDCCs). So far, ten district task forces are operational in Chipata and Katete, in the Eastern Province, Lusaka in Lusaka Province, Chinsali and Nakonde in Muchinga Province, and Choma, Kalomo and Livingstone in the Southern Province. The task forces in the remaining provinces and districts will be operationalised in due course, with a view to ensuring countrywide coverage. In addition to these efforts, we shall continue working with editorial teams in both the print and electronic media because, although there is increased reporting of GBV and child abuse, a lot still needs to be done. The little success that we may report is attributable to our partnership with public, private and community media houses, training of journalists and the quarterly media tracking meetings we hold, which serve as points of interaction, monitoring and evaluation. However, as one might easily see from the reports in the media, the language used on women and the way they are portrayed leave much to be desired. Furthermore, since 2010, our partnership with media personnel of all levels has generated more knowledge on GBV. This goes to show that, if we all joined hands and did our best, we could minimise the scourge. However, the media should stop publishing information that encourages the abuse of women.

Sir, the impact of the increased public awareness is that communities are responding in accordance with the spirit of the Anti-Gender-Based Violence Act, No. 1 of 2011.

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Shakafuswa!

Please, be orderly.

Prof Luo: It is evident that, if we continue to empower our people with information to support community action, cases of GBV will be minimised. The successes that I have pointed out notwithstanding, however, more still needs to be done to eradicate negative attitudes and practices, starting from Parliament to the society at large.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Sir, the ministry faces a big challenge in addressing this problem. For example, from the time I took the Floor, everyone has been shouting, “Hear, hear!”

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, a number of stakeholders, such as traditional authorities, law enforcement agencies, opinion leaders and religious leaders, complement our efforts in addressing issues of GBV, harassment of women and girls, and enforcement of the relevant laws. However, we still face many challenges. To begin with, the ministry is under-funded and inadequately staffed. We need to build more capacity to reach all the parts of Zambia. Our partners also need resources to continue to advocate for a zero-tolerance attitude towards GBV. So, we want to capacitate them to continue discouraging negative cultural practices in our society. We also want to encourage the law enforcement agencies to be more resolute in punishing the perpetrators. The laws should also provide for stiffer punishments because fifteen-year imprisonment is not enough of a deterrent. So, maybe, we should make it life imprisonment.

Mr Muntanga: Ah!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we would like our partners to provide leadership in breaking the culture of silence and ensuring that people in communities report cases of GBV to the police. We would also like to build the capacities of our people at the local level to counsel victims of GBV. In fact, I wish we could get …

Mr Kambwili entered the Assembly Chamber.


Prof. Luo: I wish we could encourage citizens …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Prof. Luo: … to effect citizen arrests in their communities.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Na ba Chairman ababi.


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, our law enforcement agencies should protect our people; inform them of their rights and available services, such as shelters, medical treatment, legal counselling and the right to lodge complaints; discourage the trivialisation of GBV and the mocking of victims of GBV, be they men, boys, women or girls; and provide user-friendly victims’ services, such as in-camera hearings and private counselling rooms.

Mr Speaker, other challenges we have in the country in dealing with GBV are inadequate judicial officers to attend to GBV cases, leading to delays in disposing of cases; inadequate centres for reporting GBV cases; inadequate knowledge on GBV among judicial officers, traditional, religious and opinion leaders, and CSOs; inadequate forensic expertise; inadequate social workers and medical personnel needed to attend to GBV cases promptly; absent or costly and cumbersome referral system; inadequate one-stop centres; and unwillingness of medical staff to testify in GBV cases.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I advise all stakeholders that, as we address issues of GBV and harassment of especially women and girls, it is important that we create as much awareness as possible and enhance our intervention programmes. No number of laws, one-stop centres or arrests can eliminate the scourge without effective and consistent countrywide public sensitisation and advocacy aimed at achieving attitudinal and behavioural change. Furthermore, laws and awareness campaigns must be complemented by empowerment programmes for the vulnerable in our society. As we all know, behavioural change is a long process. In fact, it calls for serious investment. Therefore, I call for investment among us in being the gatekeepers of gender-responsive practices; working with our traditional and religious leaders, and our education system so that people are exposed to the dangers of GBV at an early age, especially in our early education programmes; human resource capacity; the media; activities that minimise poverty in our country and discourage forced or child marriages; family life, so that we go back to who we were, instead of being apologetic for being African; the right leadership to steer the ship; and in the promotion of the four-lettered word ‘love’. As the Bible says, “Thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself” and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”  

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development.

All those who are indicating, please, remain upstanding so that we take note of you. Meanwhile, I will give the Floor to the hon. Member for Mafinga.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the major contributing factor to gender-based violence (GBV) is the low economic status of women. Women remain in marriages because they have to, for economic survival, not because they want to.


Mr Chipungu: The man loves you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, maybe, they want me to repeat what I just said.

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am saying that the low economic status of women makes them to stay in bad marriages because they have to survive economically, …


Ms Namugala: … not because they want to remain in the marriages. Even in bad marriages, the women cannot get out because …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Even if you disagree with what the hon. Member on the Floor is saying, I think that it is only proper that you listen to her. Otherwise, you will drown her out.

Continue, hon. Member.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, women who are battered by men find it difficult to leave.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mafinga, your preface is becoming too long. Please, make it brief so that you get to your question.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am sorry, but it is difficult for me to go direct to the question because the majority of the hon. Members here are men.


Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, just ask your question.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, my question is …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I need your protection.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have protected you.


Ms Namugala: I have been told that I am also a man.


Mr Deputy Speaker: You men are not good.


Mr Deputy Speaker: You are not being kind to the hon. Member. Let us listen to her.

Hon. Member, continue, please.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the solution to the problem is to lift women out of poverty. There are many women out there who suffer quietly in homes because they would have no way of feeding their children if they moved out of the violent environments that are their marriages. Could the hon. Minister tell me and all the women of this country what serious programmes the Government has put in place to empower women economically, especially, through the many economic sectors of the country. What is the Government doing to ensure that women with little or no education can still survive, move away from violent environments, and look after themselves and their children?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I could not agree with the hon. Member for Mafinga on the issue of poverty amongst women being the main drivers of GBV in marriages and society. For that reason, the Government has implemented a number of programmes to empower women economically. As you may have realised, before the Ministry of Gender and Child Development was established, most of this support was channelled through the Ministry of Community, Mother and Child Health which, apart from the support to women’s groups, runs the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS), whose budget has been increased by, maybe, three-fold since we came into office. This was meant to enable us to reach many more vulnerable families. There is another fund under the Ministry of Youth and Sport that supports economic empowerment. Unfortunately, when we say ‘youth,’ many people think that we mean male youths only, yet we mean both males and females. So, there are three support funds in three different ministries.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to inform you that my ministry has reviewed the support it provides and is in the process of redesigning it so that it can address what the hon. Member is saying. We have a lot of resources in the three ministries. Unfortunately, there are some people who are good at writing proposals and accessing the resources very quickly, but who do not use it for the intended purpose. For example, they just share it, meaning that they do not actually uplift their living standards. Therefore, my ministry will put in place a tried-and-tested programme. There is a female rice farmer who used to produce thirteen bags. After she was given a tractor, she now produces 1,000 bags. Obviously, that woman will never look back. That is how we will proceed because we want to uplift the living standards of women in this country.

Sir, furthermore, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, the former hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development, Her Honour the Vice-President, and I, when I was Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, sourced some resources strictly for the empowerment of women. What is missing in the current system is the up-skilling of women. In the new programme, that will be done. We will give them not only equipment, but also start-up capital. We will also monitor how these resources will be banked and train the women in banking.

Sir, the other programmes, which are just about to be launched, are Girls to Women, and Boys to Men. The first programme will provide training to women to transform them into people who cannot tolerate the bad marriages and situations they may currently be in while the second will train our young men not to be perpetrators of violence, but rather to be cognisance of the importance of gender equality. So, it is evident from the foregoing that quite a lot is going on in terms of women’s empowerment, and it is my sincere hope that the lot of our women will be improved in the nearest future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned many Acts that engender the protection of women from gender-based violence (GBV). Of what use are these laws when we have people even in this House who break them with impunity?


Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, is there no intention to stiffen the laws so that the perpetrators of GBV are deterred, even in this House?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, as far as I know, none of us in this House has immunity from the law. The important thing is to raise awareness amongst our people so that they can report acts of GBV and ensure that the perpetrators are dealt with swiftly.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, there is a lot of theory and some practical aspect in the hon. Minister’s statement. She has cited the many laws against gender-based violence (GBV). She also stated that her ministry will develop an implementation strategy. Other than sensitisation, is the strict enforcement of the law not another hallmarks of GBV prevention? If it is, should the Ministry of Home Affairs, through the police, not take the lead in enforcing the law, rather than the Ministry of Gender and Child Development doing so?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the implementation strategy and framework I mentioned was not in reference to the laws, but rather to awareness-raising. We need to create a robust communication strategy with an implementation framework so that we can reach the lowest unit in society. The incidence of GBV is not the result of inadequate laws alone, but is also the result of people’s ignorance about where to report GBV cases. Therefore, we need to raise awareness and ensure that all the people, including those in the villages, know whom to report such cases to.


Prof. Luo: If you do not listen to me, then, do not ask me another question.


Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, just answer the question.

Prof. Luo: Sir, in short, the high incidence of the scourge calls for awareness-raising.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, for the first time, the hon. Minister has issued a statement that I have appreciated.

Hon. Member: Ah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Now, I can even start talking to her.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

In four years.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am aware that, in the recent past, two of our female politicians, Ms Nawakwi and Mrs Nalumango, have been victims of gender-based violence (GBV) perpetrated by members of the Cabinet and hon. Members of this House. To what extent has the hon. Minister been able to sensitise her colleagues in the Government about GBV?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I think that you should confine your debate to policy rather than individuals.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the preface to this question is a very good example of violence against me, a woman.


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in life, we do not choose who to work with, but we can choose friends. Therefore, I will choose my friends.


Prof. Luo: That is for the benefit of the hon. Member who asked this question. I also refer him to the statement I made in the United States of America (USA) recently, which received a lot of accolades at international level. So, even if he does not appreciate what I say, it does not matter.

Sir, in response to his question, …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You know, this is what I find very difficult. You provoke an hon. Member, but when they respond, you raise an uproar. The hon. Member who asked the question provoked the hon. Minister by saying that he would start speaking to the hon. Minister, meaning that he would not do that before now. She is merely responding to that. So, why do some of you want to raise an uproar? It is not fair.

Continue, hon. Minister.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection.

Sir, in response to the question, I want to say that my ministry has sensitised members of one of our Select Committees here on GBV because we are worried, as a Government and ministry. Additionally, in response to the recent events in our society, the ministry will conduct a workshop on GBV for all Parliamentarians, including hon. Ministers. I invite all hon. Members to attend that important workshop. We will raise as much awareness as we can on GBV so that we can all be on the same page.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, the past two months of the second phase of the rule by the Patriotic Front (PF) have been very violent on women and disastrous, to some extent. The hon. Minister indicated that media reports have shown that women are being disrespected. We believe in the adage that “Charity begins at home,” but examples of women being publicly disparaged and insulted in the PF Cabinet abound. I have just seen a video of that happening in these premises.

Mr Muchima: Ah!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, what is the ministry doing to educate hon. Ministers who perpetrate violence against women about gender-based violence (GBV)? We are tired of hearing statements like, “The President does not need a mistress” or “She is ugly.” Those words were spoken by hon. Cabinet Ministers.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing to shame the zealots in the Cabinet, …


Mr Mufalali: … who are overzealous to disparage women?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, there is a saying in the Bible about people who are quick to offer to remove a speck from another’s eye while they fail to even see one in their own eyes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Prof. Luo: Sir, we should all agree, as political parties here, that this is a big problem. The ministry has organised an awareness programme for all of us. So, let us all attend it.

Sir, we know of the Mapatizya Formula, …

Mr Livune: Question!

Prof. Luo: … which perpetrated violence.


Prof Luo: I think that people should take the specks out of their eyes first.


Prof. Luo: Sir, GBV should be condemned as much as possible. There is nobody with immunity in these premises. Therefore, all of us must attend the awareness-raising workshop so that we can understand this problem. Physical, emotional and psychological violence, and sexual harassment, which some have perpetrated against me, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof Luo: … are all forms GBV.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mbewe: … according to the information gathered by the ministry, which province has the highest incidence of gender-based violence (GBV)?

Hon. Government Members: Eastern.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we have not yet mapped the incidence of GBV in particular provinces, but we will soon do that because we need to identify the hotspots. However, for us to effectively undertake that exercise, we first need to educate the people so that they understand what GBV is. Currently, some people think that GBV is just beating, yet it is more than that. For example, Hon. Namugala referred to marriages. When men sleep out or go home in the early hours of the morning, causing their wives to worry about them, that is psychological violence.


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Prof. Luo: Sir, that response shows that many people still do not fully know what GBV is.

Hon. Government Members:

Prof. Luo: They do not know that, by staying out late, they cause psychological violence to their wives. So, we will, first, educate the people, then, undertake the mapping.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, has Zambia completely outlawed all the traditional practices that promote gender-based violence (GBV)? If it has not, what is the ministry doing to discourage such traditions?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we have not managed to outlaw all the harmful traditional practices. Therefore, that will now be one of the areas of my collaboration with the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Top on the agenda of that collaboration is ending polygamy.

 Mr Speaker, I thank, you.


Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, as a friend of the hon. Minister’s, I just want to correct her …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Let us have order, hon. Members. I hate it when you push me to the wall because, then, I will send you out and you will complain.

Continue, hon. Member.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, as a friend to the hon. Minister, I advise her that the Bible says, “Remove the log from your eyes before you remove the speck from the eye of your neighbour.”

Sir, I would like to relate the hon. Minister’s statement to a case in Afghanistan, Kabul in particular, where a young lady was beaten, thrown over the bridge and, then, set on fire. Obviously, she died. My concern is that I did not hear the hon. Minister condemn that incident on the Floor of this House despite claiming to have made an internationally acclaimed statement. Could the hon. Minister say something about that.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member’s question should be directed at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is responsible, among other things, for commenting on events in other States. As far as I am concerned, as Minister of Gender and Child Development for Zambia only, I condemn all the acts of GBV and would like to see physical, verbal, emotional and psychological violence come to an end.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this important statement.

Sir, I did not want to ask a question, but I am forced to do so, and I ask the hon. Minister to take her time in responding to it because I think that it is very important.

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask your question, hon. Member.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I was very disappointed to hear some of the comments from our menfolk here as the hon. Minister was speaking because it is very clear that the men seated in this House do not know anything about emotional violence, which can be worse than physical violence. Could the hon. Minister take her time to just educate them on this issue.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am not sure whether I should allow the hon. Minister to go to the extent of talking about hon. Members in this House because we may start discussing ourselves. However, she can respond to that question without necessarily mentioning hon. Members of Parliament.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, emotional violence is when an individual’s actions cause negative emotions and worry in another person. I gave the example of situations in which husbands go home late or do not provide for their families despite having adequate earnings. So, the wife worries about where the money is going or, when they stay out late, she worries that they may have died in accident. When they go away for days without telling the wife, she will even suffer further in that she will have to search for him all over the place. To some extent, she may even go to the mortuary to see whether the husband is there. Suffice it for me to say that emotional violence is the worst form of violence because it causes mental disorders in victims. In fact, if you visited Chainama Mental Hospital, and the hon. Minister of Health and his Deputy will agree with me, the majority of women admitted there are victims of psychological violence.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I will have the last four questions from the hon. Members for Lukulu West, Kawambwa, Kalomo Central and Mapatizya.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I am a proud African and Zambian, in particular.


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that some of the things her ministry is doing border on our throwing away of the traditional way of life that we inherited from our forefathers and adopting Western practices, thereby lowering our chances of promoting tourism, which could earn our country money?  


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I think that there is a distinction between tradition and culture and social norms. Gender-based violence is a bad social phenomenon that enshrines itself in a culture and starts looking normal. This House might wish to know that, for all the years I lived with my parents, until I was sixteen years and left for Europe, I did not see my parents fight or swear at each other. What is currently happening in Zambia, where parents fight in front of their children and swear at each other, and men sleep out and do not provide for their children is not part of our tradition, but rather a recent phenomenon. Therefore, there is nothing like throwing away our traditions. In fact, if we followed our traditions, we would be a better people.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, what programmes is the Ministry of Gender and Child Development implementing to assist men who are abused by their wives in speech and in the way their wives treat them in the bedroom, which could be the reason they prefer to stay out longer?

Hon. Male Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Deputy Speaker:  Order!

Hon. Minister, please, be mindful, as you answer that question, that we are many here.


Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, continue.


Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, clearly, going by that question, I probably should define the term ‘gender.’ The term refers to both men and women. Therefore, the programmes in the ministry are not just directed at women. I talked about the Boys to Men Programme, which has attracted US$1.2 million in funding to my ministry. All that money will be used on programmes targeted at boys and men. We want men to be sensitised about the ills of GBV.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I note that the question my brother there asked was premised on the observation that gender encompasses both sexes, but the hon. Minister’s statement has emphasised the gender-based violence (GBV) perpetrated by men. However, men also suffer a lot of injustice from women, but they keep quiet about it. From the way some of our colleagues across answer questions, you can see that they have so many problems, but they just cannot talk about them. However, they feel happy if someone talks to them privately. So, what we want to hear from the hon. Minister is what she is doing, especially to stop the GBV perpetrated by women on men who cannot defend themselves. We know that men are usually embarrassed to talk about such things. As it has been pointed out, GBV is not only about acts of physical violence. Some women are abusive in speech and shout at their husbands a lot. Some of them even provoke fights by daring men to beat them.


Mr Muntanga: So, what is the ministry doing about things like that?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, let me just …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Prof. Luo: ... tell the House why there is more emphasis on GBV against women. Studies that have been conducted have shown a very high percentage of GBV against women and very little against men. Despite that being the case, as I said in answering the previous question, as recently as last week, I was in the USA sourcing money to address GBV perpetrated by women against men. So far, we have already raised US$1.2 million.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in one of her responses, the hon. Minister indicated that one form of GBV is the Mapatizya Formula. However, the Mapatizya Formula is non-violent and only meant to prevent vote-buying during elections. So, how did the hon. Minister link that formula to GBV?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the Mapatizya Formula is a physical type of violence …

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Prof. Luo: … in which there is even bloodshed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.




471. Mr Mumba (Mambilima) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the construction of staff houses at the following primary schools in Serenje District would commence:

(a)    Lupiya;

(b)    Muchinga;

(c)    Nganswa;

(d)    Mbanswa;

(e)    Kashishi;

(f)    Ndabala;

(g)    Malwita;

(h)    Kambobe;

(i)    Lumpampa; and

(j)    Kashitu.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the primary schools in question have inadequate staff housing. Currently, none of the schools are on the ministry’s Infrastructure Development Plan (IDP).


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There are too many loud consultations on both my right and left.

Continue, hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection.

Sir, before the interruptions, I was about to say that Malwita, Muchinga, Kambobe and Kashitu will be included in the 2015/16 IDP while the other schools will be considered in future plans.

I thank you, Sir.


472. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    how much money was allocated for the grading of the Kalabo/Tapo Feeder Road in 2014;

(b)    how much money had been disbursed to the project, as of January, 2014;

(c)    what the outstanding balance was, as of October, 2014;

(d)    why the works had stalled since January, 2014;

(e)    when the works would resume; and

(f)    when the works were expected to be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the amount allocated for the grading of the Kalabo/Tapo Feeder Road in 2014 was K1.2 million.

Sir, no funds had been disbursed for the grading of the road, as at January, 2014.

Sir, the outstanding project financing balance, as at October, 2014, was the same amount as the total project budget, that is, K1.2 million, because no disbursement had been made.

Mr Speaker, between 2013 and 2014, works had been carried out on the road’s drainage system from Kalabo to Mapungu. However, grading works had not started by January, 2014, due to the non-disbursement of funds.

Sir, the works will only start after the funds have been released.

Mr Speaker, the completion date of the proposed works will only be known upon commencement of the project.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member for Kalabo Central for disturbing his line of thought. My point of order is on the procedure of this House.

Sir, we have continued to allow the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) cameras and news crew in this House to cover our proceedings in the House. However, when they go out, they distort what was said here. The example I can give concerns Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. What the ZNBC shows of these proceedings is heavily censored. As a result, the people who sent us here to represent them keep asking us what was said in the proceedings. In short, the ZNBC does not show things as they happen in this House. By cutting out important parts of our proceedings, it gives a distorted picture of our proceedings. When a question is asked about the Barotseland Agreement issue, for example, someone cuts the radio transmission. However, if there is something wrong with what is said or done in this House, it must be stopped by the Presiding Officers here. Therefore, is this House in order to continue allowing the ZNBC to censor the proceedings of the House and portray a wrong picture of our business?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I believe that the decision to allow the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) here had the approval of the House. However, if you are asking whether that decision was in order, …


Mr Deputy Speaker: … I think that you are better placed to answer your question. In short, if you do not want the ZNBC to cover our proceedings, then, move a Motion so that we stop the practice. For now, it is in order because that was the decision of the House.

That is my ruling.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that this road has been funded from 2012. So, for three years, it has been funded, but there has been very minimal disbursement of funds. In his capacity as hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, is he confident that the funds will be released?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is regrettable that funds, though allocated in last year’s Budget, were not released. However, looking at the condition of the road, the ministry has instructed the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) to carry out an assessment on it with a view to coming up with a programme of works.

I thank you, Speaker.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, many people have complained that there is censorship on Parliament Radio.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Whenever some critical issues that border on the governance of this country are discussed, the radio signal is switched off on the false pretext that the transmitters were switched off. This happened even last Friday. Is this House in order to allow the Parliament Radio staff to censor the work of this Parliament?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: My ruling is quite obvious. We decided to broadcast our business on Parliament Radio. So, if what you are saying is true, then, it is not in order. Parliament Radio should be on all the time. If, for some reason, there is a technical fault, then, we must be notified.

Hon. Mufalali, continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, why is the hon. Minister still talking about assessments and other preliminaries when the project money was released? Why is the ministry still assessing? Why did it have to do the assessment now when it could have done so before the money was released?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am a bit lost. The hon. Minister said that the K1.2 million has not been released to date.

Mr Mutelo: That is the question.

Mr Deputy Minister: No, that is not what he has said. You are putting words in his mouth.

The money has not been released to date. So, I am confused when you talk about partial releases. Repeat your question so that I understand it properly?

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Sir, why has the money not been released when it was first allocated three years ago? That is the cry of the people of Kalabo. Where is the money?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to state that it is not true that there has not been any money released. Between 2013 and 2014, some drainage works were done at a cost of K890,000. The money that was not released was meant for the grading works and the reason it was not released is that we have a limited resource envelope.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister budgeted for the project and the money was allocated, but it was not disbursed. Is that the way people budget and plan or do you want shoddy work to be carried out on the road because it is in Kalabo? Are we going to see that project take the same direction as the Mongu Stadium Project?

Mr Mufalali: Yes!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is important for people to appreciate the works being done.

Mr Mufalali: What is there to appreciate?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

That is the kind of behaviour I detest.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mukanga: Sir, it is important for hon. Members to appreciate that the Government is doing all it can to distribute development projects equitably throughout the country. The people of Kalabo are not being marginalised. If anything, the Mongu/Kalabo Road is the most expensive road in Zambia and Kalabo will benefit from it. So, people should not create the impression that the Government is not doing anything. If anything, the people of Kalabo should appreciate the fact that they have got the biggest chunk of the national cake.

I thank you, Sir.


473. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when speed control humps would be constructed at the Luangwa Bridge Market in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    what type of humps would be constructed; and

(c)    what the cost of the exercise would be.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, speed humps are expected to be constructed at the Luangwa Bridge Market in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency in the second quarter of this year.

Sir, the type of speed-reducing measure to be constructed is the rumble strips, a series of small humps of minimal height. The rumble strips will be complemented by speed-reduction signs.

Sir, the estimated cost of the exercise is K50,000.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minster for …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order. I apologise to the Member on the Floor.

Sir, is the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication in order not to answer my question? The question was on why the money was not released, to which he responded that we are not appreciative because we were allocated the Mongu/Kalabo Road. Who said that we do not appreciate? We appreciate the Mongu/Kalabo Road Project because the money was released and the work is being executed. What we want to know is who has the money for the project in question.

Mr Mwila: Resource envelope.

Mr Mutelo: Was he in order not to answer my question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Rufunsa, please, continue.


Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, almost every week, one or two lives are lost due to excessive speeding along that stretch. Could the hon. Minister, perhaps, be more precise as to when the humps will be constructed in the second quarter of this year. To me, a layman, it might not be clear what he means by second quarter. I want him to be more specific.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the first quarter of a year is January to March, which is the current quarter. So, the second quarter, in which the humps will be constructed, is April to June, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, why is the ministry not able to take the initiative to construct rumble strips without having to be prodded to do so? There are various dangerous spots on our roads where people are killed every day because of over-speeding cars. These accidents happen even in Kalomo, at Nachilongo.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you will recall that, yesterday, I said that, we, the Presiding Officers, have ourselves to blame because, sometimes, we allow questions that are not related to the principal question. When we do, it is accepted and when we do not, we take the blame. In this instance, I will not allow your question because it falls outside the scope of the principal question and I did not hear the hon. Minister stretch the scope in any of his responses.


474. Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the rehabilitation of the Ndola Lime/Lafarge Road in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency would commence.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the feasibility study, detailed engineering designs and tender document preparation for the upgrading of the T3/Lafarge/Chiwala/Zambezi Cement Road has been included in the 2015 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP). It is expected that a consultant will be engaged in the third quarter of this year and that the actual works will commence in the second quarter of 2017 after the conclusion of the design and tender process for the engagement of a contractor.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


475. Mr Muntanga (on behalf of Mr Mulomba) (Magoye)) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would construct the following bridges in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Itebe to connect Itebe and Munenga Wards;

(b)    Hanzala in Konkola Ward;

(c)    Mweemba in Musuma Ward; and

(d)    Mabanga in Kalama Ward.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, within the second quarter of 2015, the Road Development Agency (RDA) will undertake an assessment of the sites to ascertain the scope of required works and estimate the project budget with a view to possibly including the project in the 2016 RSAWP.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, an announcement that a programme to construct bridges would be rolled out was made a long time ago. Why is the hon. Minister still talking about the assessments of the bridges when that should have been done a long time ago? The mentioned bridges are vital for the travelling people of that area.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the urgency of the situation has dictated that we do not wait for the bigger project that the hon. Member has referred to. Therefore, we want our engineers to immediately go there, make assessments and, if possible, work on the bridges.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, in 2011, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government promised to immediately work on the bridges. This is 2015, but that is when we are hearing of engineers being sent to make assessments. What went wrong? Was it because it lost an election?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, from 2011, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been doing very well. We have not lost elections, like the hon. Member’s party has done. We have been winning elections throughout the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: That is why we are here (indicating the Government side) ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: And we will continue.

Mr Mukanga: ... and we will continue winning until the people of Zambia see us deliver what they want. So, it is very dangerous for someone to attribute anything to the loss of elections. We have been winning elections, not losing them.

Hon. UPND Member: You lost in Magoye.

Mr Mukanga: We can give you the statistics. We even won the latest Presidential Elections. Did you win?


Mr Mukanga: Sir, this Government will not be distracted by anyone. We have a programme that we are following and we will deliver the much-needed development to the nation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that many constituencies have problems with bridges. I invite him to come with me to Nangoma, sometime, so that he can see the situation there. We do not have bridges.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, this question was in relation to Magoye Constituency.


476. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that there was a huge gully on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road near the airport area which, if not attended to quickly, would delink Kalabo from Sikongo; and

(b)    if it was aware, what measures it had taken to protect the road from becoming impassable.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Government is fully aware of the gully on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road near the airport area. The RDA has already carried out a technical assessment of the required temporary repair works and laid sandbags on to the gully to prevent further erosion, as a temporary measure. Permanent works are expected to commence in the fourth quarter of this year as part of the project to upgrade the road.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, with regard to the temporary measure of laying sandbags, the Government must thank nature for the poor rainy season. Otherwise, we would have been talking about something else today.

Mr Speaker, the fourth quarter of the year is October to December, which is almost in the rainy season.

Hon. UPND Member: It is the rainy season.

Mr Miyutu: Does the Government hope that we get another drought so that the sandbags are not washed away?


Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, a drought is the last thing we can hope for. We hope for better rains this coming season. We are also confident that the temporary works will do, for now, and that the planned permanent works will commence in good time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


477. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    what radius the communication tower erected at Senior Chief Milambo’s  Palace covered;

(b)    whether the Government had any plans to facilitate the extension of the radius; and

(c)    if so, when the extension works would commence.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the communication tower erected at Senior Chief Milambo’s Palace was one of the 204 erected under Phase I. The tower is 25 m high and covers a radius of between 3 and 5 km, depending on the terrain.

Mr Speaker, in March, 2015, the Government sent a team of engineers to inspect communication towers countrywide and determine remedial measures for areas where signal coverage is less than 5 km.

Mr Speaker, the extension works will only commence upon receipt of the recommendations of the engineers who are currently carrying out network coverage assessments.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s answer was perfect until he spoiled it. Is the ministry in a position to expedite the work of the engineers so that the people of Milambo can enjoy the services from that communication facility?  

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, yes, we are in a position to do that.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee Appointed to Scrutinise the Presidential Appointment of Mr Likando Kalaluka to Serve as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, the appointment of Mr Likando Kalaluka as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia was made pursuant to the provisions of Article 54(1) of the Constitution of Zambia, Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia, which states:

“There shall be an Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia, whose office shall be a public office, and who shall, subject to ratification by the National Assembly, be appointed by the President and shall be:

(a)    an ex-officio member of the Cabinet; and

(b)    the principal legal adviser to the Government.”

Mr Speaker, in scrutinising the nominee, your Committee took into account the importance of the office in the provision of legal advice to the Government. In that regard, your Committee held the view that a candidate for this office should, in addition to being qualified and competent, be a person of sound character, integrity, and diligence. Guided by that conviction, your Committee invited submissions from the State security agencies on whether they had any adverse reports on the nominee. The submissions of all the State security agencies, namely, the Zambia Police Force, Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) were that a search of their records had revealed that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just about to inform the House that all the State security agencies reported having no reports of criminal activities like drug trafficking and abuse, money laundering and corrupt practices by the nominee in their records. The security agencies also confirmed to your Committee that the nominee is a Zambian citizen and that he would not pose a security risk to the nation if appointed to serve in the sensitive position of Attorney-General.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also interacted with relevant professional bodies and stakeholder institutions, which included the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), Transparency International (TI) and Foundation for Democratic Process (FODEP), all of which raised no objection to Mr Kalaluka’s appointment, except for LAZ and FODEP, whose view was that the nominee met the requisite Constitutional requirements for the position, but needed to gain more experience. Your Committee, thus, unanimously supports the nominee’s appointment because he possesses the requisite qualifications and experience for the position.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for services and advice rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. Your Committee also wishes to place on record its gratitude to you for appointing it to undertake the honourable task of scrutinising the suitability of the nominee to serve in the position to which he has been appointed. Your Committee further thanks the State security and investigative agencies, professional bodies and other stakeholder institutions, and the nominee for the oral and written submissions that assisted it in making an informed recommendation to the House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Chipungu: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to second the Motion that the House adopts the Report of the Select Committee Appointed to Scrutinise the Presidential Appointment of Mr Likando Kalaluka as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, Mr Kalaluka is, indeed, a youth who is likely to take some degree of experience to the legal fraternity. He is an intelligent, morally upright and visionary young man. Constitutionally, he also qualifies to hold the position of Attorney-General.

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson and mover of the Motion has aptly belaboured the salient issues brought out in your Committee’s Report. I also believe that hon. Members have had the opportunity to peruse the report. Therefore, I will be brief in seconding the Motion.

Sir, the mover of the Motion has clearly stated the position of your Committee on this very important appointment. Therefore, in supporting your Committee’s position, allow me to add that the appointee’s curriculum vitae (CV) shows that he has been involved in human rights work and studied matters of policy at the postgraduate level. Your Committee hopes that his experience will help to facilitate an increase in the number of Bills aimed at domesticating international human rights instruments.  

Mr Speaker, the appointee is aware that the office he is ascending to is critical to the promotion of good governance and the rule of law. In this regard, he is strongly urged to exhibit high levels of integrity, competence, diligence, impartiality and independence in the execution of the duties of his office.   

Sir, in conclusion, I thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the proficient manner in which he guided the deliberations of your Committee. I also acknowledge the unity and diligence exhibited by all the members of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I thank the mover and seconder of the Motion on the Presidential appointment of our new Attorney-General, Mr Likando Kalaluka.

Mr Speaker, I have read through the report of your Committee and the submissions of the invited stakeholders on the nominee. Having listened to the mover’s presentation, I think that what is cardinal is that the provisions of our Republican Constitution are satisfied. That is the major benchmark. Of course, he is a lawyer, not a public administrator like me. To me, like all the people who were invited to make submissions said, Mr Likando has the qualifications to hold the Office of Attorney-General. I am, however, taken aback that the professional body to which he belongs and of which he is actually Honorary Secretary, the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), submitted that the appointee needed to gain some experience. What experience does he need? If, according to the Republican Constitution, the minimum qualification is ten years working experience and the nominee has served at the Bar for eleven years, then, he qualifies. I have not heard any argument calling for the Constitution to be amended so that the minimum qualification corresponds with the experience a person should have. If there is such an argument, I have difficulties with it because Dr Kaunda became the First President of this nation when he was only forty years old without having served as President anywhere. So, he had no Presidential experience.


Mr Namulambe: However, he served this nation diligently for the twenty-seven years as President. Our current Republican President is only fifty-eight years old, if my memory serves me right, yet there are people serving in his Government who are much older than him. The bottom line is that he satisfies the Constitutional benchmark requiring a President to be thirty-five years or above. No one has argued that he is not fit to be President simply because he joined the Government service as Deputy Minister in 2011 and was later promoted to the position of full Cabinet Minister, which means that he has only been in the Government for three years. As far as I am concerned, there is no Constitutional provision requiring a nominee to a Constitutional office to have gained his or her experience working in the Government. We have seen many lawyers in the private sector ably argue cases against the Government in our courts and often win the cases. So, when we talk about experience in law, we should clarify what we mean because, as I have said already, private lawyers have won cases against Government lawyers. So, I have difficulties understanding the experience we are talking about. If anything, I have no problem with his gaining experience while working as Attorney-General. After all, law is a profession and, as a professional, he will have people to consult. I read in his submissions that he has served under a person who was once in the position to which he has been appointed. I, therefore, take it that he will have somewhere to seek guidance whenever he encounters difficulties in his job. Besides, the current Solicitor-General has served in Government for eighteen years. So, the nominee can always consult him on sticky points. Age should not be a barrier to a person’s ascension to a higher position.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport is very young.

Mr Chipungu: And Kambwili!

Mr Namulambe: He is only thirty-six years old, yet the Directors and Permanent Secretary (PS) under his supervision are older. I have not heard any complaints stemming from that fact.  


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Namulambe!

Make your points in general terms. If you specify the people who are young in this House, you will break the rule against hon. Members debating themselves.

Please, continue.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, we had people who were appointed ambassadors when they were eighteen years old, but they served Zambia well, and I am sure they supervised people who were even older than they.

Mr Speaker, the reluctance by some institutions to support this nomination should be an eye-opener to the nominee. He must take into account the concerns that have been raised in this report. Some people may have objected because of jealousy or interpersonal frictions, and every person is entitled to his or her opinion. However, there are several factors that the appointing authority might have taken into consideration before appointing Mr Kalaluka. For example, he is from the Western Province. I would have had difficulties with his appointment had he been from the Eastern Province …


Mr Namulambe: … because I might, then, have thought that the appointment was based on regional patronage. The appointing authority and the nominee come from different regions. So, the nomination is based on what he can offer to this country.

Sir, according to the submission by the hon. Minister on behalf of the appointing authority, Mr Kalaluka was born when I was in Grade 2. However, I support his appointment because I know that he is being appointed to serve the Government. The duty of the Attorney-General is to advise the Government on legal matters in the Cabinet. Sometimes, when a matter is so tricky that the Attorney-General cannot provide immediate guidance to the Cabinet on it, its consideration can be postponed to a later date so that he can consult further.

Sir, it is high time young people ascended to positions of responsibility. They should not wait until they have grey hair. Our First Republican President liked to say, “Imiti ikula empanga.”

Mr Kambwili: Empanga!

Mr Namulambe: Empanga? Katwishi, nshili muBemba ine. Ndi muLamba.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, in those days, …

Mr Mwale: Meaning?

Mr Namulambe: You are familiar with the proverb and its meaning.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, translate what you said.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, it means that the young people of today are the leaders of tomorrow. Unfortunately, we do not see the youths ascending to higher positions of responsibility currently. Most of the people being appointed are in their sixties or older. This time around, I am happy that we are appointing Mr Kalaluka, my cousin, who is thirty-eight years old.


Mr Namulambe: Yes, he is my cousin and he deserves this appointment. I do not even think that this report should raise a lot of controversy, especially among us who are closer to his age. We should support him because he is one of us.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I know of some State Counsels (SCs) who have served at the Bar for, maybe, forty-five years. My advice to Mr Kalaluka is that he should consult such people whenever necessary and possible. A person cannot know everything. Even the most experienced people still consult because learning is a continuous process. That is especially true of Mr Kalaluka, who is being appointed in the Government for the first time.

Mr Speaker, although you said that we should not debate ourselves, let me say that some man was appointed PS in 2002, when he was thirty-four years old. When he went to the North-Western Province, the Lundas said that the late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., had sent a teenager there. However, the person they called a teenager is still appreciated to this day whenever he goes to that province because he humbled himself before the elderly and the most educated people.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: That is him!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, in that province, there were doctors and people who had served long in the Government. However, the young PS took advantage of their presence, sought their counsel and he was properly advised. So, he became so responsible in that position that, when he was moved from the North-Western Province to the Copperbelt Province, the people in the North-Western Province complained because they still wanted him. I am sure that he served the Copperbelt Province diligently, too. We all know that the Copperbelt is a very difficult province to manage and I salute those who are managing it. That is what young people can do. After all, they say that it is easier to teach a young dog new tricks. So, I hope that this young man will be quick at learning his job. I, therefore, urge him to settle in this position as quickly as possible. Besides, his boss, the hon. Minister, is an academic to whom he can always run to seek advice.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Fyafula!

Mr Namulambe: Cacine fyafula, nomba nchili ndelanda!


Mr Namulambe: If he seeks advice from the hon. Minister, he will become a more competent person even in future assignments.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, of course, he will not die as Attorney-General. Other people have been there before him and others will be there after him. Those people are now serving in different positions, but the experience that they gained in that position is helping them wherever they are. I, therefore, want to support this nomination and say that all of us should support and ratify this nomination.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Sinda, you may raise your point of order.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order, which concerns the procedures and decorum of this august House.

Sir, the statement issued by the Minister of Gender and Child Development, Hon. Prof. Luo, was timely because it ties in with my point of order.

Sir, on Page 1 of today’s The Post newspaper, the headline is:

“Kaingu insults Lubezhi, calls her a prostitute after he failed to answer her question in the House.”

Mr Speaker, the article states that:

“Education Minister, Michael Kaingu, last Friday at Parliament Restaurant called Namwala Member of Parliament Moono Lubezhi a prostitute …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr L. J. Ngoma:

“… and it took security personnel to restrain the Mwandi lawmaker from becoming physical."

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr L. J. Ngoma:

“This was after Kaingu had failed to answer Lubezhi’s question on the Floor of the House.”

Sir, this House, in a quest to keep hon. Members in check and protect them, and maintain its decorum and dignity, has admonished many hon. Members and made them to apologise to this House in full view of their colleagues while others have been suspended from the House. For example, not too long ago, when Hon. Dr Michael Kaingu injured this House through his bad conduct of tearing the Speech of the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, he was made to apologise to this House. Hon. Gary Nkombo was equally made to apologise to this House just a few days ago. However, press reports indicate that, after Hon. Dr Michael Kaingu insulted Hon. Lubezhi, he appeared before your Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services and was made to secretly apologise to the Committee.

Mr Speaker, may I, again, quote Page 5 of today’s The Post newspaper:

“But we have information that Kaingu has appeared before the Parliamentary Privileges Committee, which is a disciplinary wing of Parliament and that shockingly, in that Committee, which was chaired by Honourable Mkhondo Lungu, the Deputy Speaker, it was proposed conveniently that Kaingu should apologise secretly within the Committee and be admonished quietly …”

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: …

“... and that the matter should come to an end.”

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, was the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi, Dr Michael Kaingu, who is also the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, in order to insult Hon. Lubezhi by calling her a prostitute, thereby lowering the integrity and decorum of this House? Furthermore, is this House in order to have two sets of rules when dealing with disciplinary matters of such a nature, as I have pointed out?

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling, as I lay the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Sinda arising from what was written in The Post newspaper of today is being taken care of by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. Additionally, generally, for the information of hon. Members of the House and the press, the Committee is an extension of the House and decisions are taken by the House to have hon. Members reprimanded either behind the Bar, in their seats or in the Committee, itself. So, what was reported is not a new thing, but something that happens all the time. Anyway, that was just additional information. The main thing is that the issue is in the hands of the relevant Committee.

That is my ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House. From the outset, allow me to state that it is illogical for anyone to oppose a Motion that is harmless and straightforward. I also declare interest because the nominee is a personal friend of mine with whom we …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mweetwa: … spent time together at university and were both involved in sports. However, I have observations to make, in keeping the integrity of Parliamentary ratification.

Mr Speaker, we have observed that, when it comes to certain appointments, such as this one of the Attorney-General, if my memory serves me right, the last three have been of people from outside the Public Service, which demoralises the lawyers who have served this country in the Public Service with the hope …


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr Mweetwa: … of climbing the ladder of the institutional hierarchies. This situation is especially demotivating given the fact that it is generally accepted in the legal fraternity that the lawyers who are in private practice are actually in greener pastures than those in the Public Service. So, one would have expected that the lawyers in the Public Service would be rewarded with such positions for the sacrifices that they make in serving the country at the expense of making more money in private practice. I, therefore, recommend that, in the future, we begin to look inside the system before looking outside. I would doubt the argument that the reason the lawyers in the Public Service are not appointed is that they are incompetent.


Mr Deputy Speaker:  Order!

I am having problems with the conduct of the hon. Deputy Ministers at the back. Each time I say, “Order!” they keep quiet for a second and, then, start making noise again. I, therefore, appeal to them to observe order. I am capable of sending the whole line at the back outside. Mind you, we are debating a very important Motion. Therefore, if I send you out, it might disadvantage your side because you never know what will happen as we conclude this debate. So, you had better be careful.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the second observation I would like to make is on the question of experience, which has been raised in the submission by the witnesses. To me, experience does not necessarily relate to the age of a person, but rather to how much work one has done in a particular field. In this case, the experience should relate to how much work the appointee has done in the Public Service, because that sector has its own procedures. The lawyers in the Ministry of Justice know how to handle the various matters that come before them. Therefore, for me, that is part of what should define the experience that is being questioned in this nominee. When you look at the submission of the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) on Pages 11 and 19, the concern is that, by virtue of being Attorney-General, the nominee will instantly be conferred the status of State Counsel (SC). Apart from that and, more importantly, he will be the Head of the Bar. Therefore, my understanding of the submissions of LAZ is that, for one to assume this position, he must have done something more besides fulfilling the Constitutional or statutory requirements because the position is a distinguished one. Some positions require not only academic and professional legitimacy, but also moral legitimacy. The organisation has explained that the ‘something more’ could mean service with distinction in the profession and having contributed to legal education or scholarly work, as the icing on the cake.

Sir, having come this far, as a country, we must begin to distinguish political offices from professional ones. With the profound respect I have for the opinion of other people, I do not think that a political office is a good yardstick to use in arguing for or against a person’s suitability to be Attorney-General. Whether someone can be an hon. Member of Parliament or a President at forty years or younger is beside the point. For instance, under Article 64, the qualifications for contesting elections to this House are that one is a Zambian citizen who is twenty-one years old or older and can speak English. That shows how less-demanding political offices are in terms of qualifications. In the case of the appointment we are currently debating, we should be mindful that we are talking about a professional office, which demands more from the holder than a political office does. Someone in a political office mainly relies on advice. For many years, I have seen some hon. Ministers read statements that they may not even have understood. They fulfil the requirements of their jobs by simply being there even when they know nothing about the subjects they talk about. Therefore, to begin to make comparisons between such an important and central office as the Attorney-General’s and a political office is a mistake because the professional office requires its holder to have distinguished him/herself at the professional level. What will be discharged in that office are professional functions in the national interest, not political ones.

 Mr Speaker, what we are talking about, in terms of experience and being Head of the Bar, is that the nominee will head all lawyers, many of whom are far more experienced than him. Therefore, it is important for him to command, at least, the minimum legitimacy in their eyes. I must also state that, compared with the many years that many lawyers have served at the Bar, the eleven years that the nominee has served mean that he is relatively inexperienced in the legal profession. However, since he has been nominated at such a young age, I am sure that, ten to fifteen years from now, we will be referring to him as a very experienced lawyer. Therefore, the concerns about experience should be heard by the appointing authority so that, perhaps, in the future, the person appointed to that office will merit the respect of the entire Bar because the position places the holder at the head of the Bar.

Mr Speaker, allow me to state that I support the Motion and the nominee not because he comes from the Western Province or any other because it is such perceptions that hold back the progress of this country. We must support people based on merit. When you ascend to the Office of the Attorney-General, you will not adjudicate on any matter on account of being Tonga, Lozi, Bemba or any other tribe. You will have to deal with matters that come before you using the set of skills that you are endowed with.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Walanda bwino, mwaice.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to reiterate that, in the future, the appointing authority should try, as much as possible, to make appointments that are devoid of negative perceptions, whether justified or not.

Sir, there is a perception among some people that the nominee is being rewarded because he is the one who served the injunction that stopped the second Patriotic Front (PF) Convention on Hon. Dr Scott because His Excellency, Edgar Chagwa Lungu, then an aspirant for the PF Presidency, had already been elected. Therefore, as a representative of the people, even if the nominee is my personal friend, I am duty-bound to convey these concerns to the appointing authority because I am in a position that gives me the privilege to do so. In the future, we should avoid making appointments that may attract such kind of perceptions which, like I have said, may be correct or wrong.

Mr Speaker, I support the nomination of Mr Likando Kalaluka as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is clear, from what the hon. Member for Choma Central has said and the mood of the House that we need not go on debating this Motion. However, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: … I will give the Floor to one last hon. Member to debate the Motion.

Dr Lungu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance to support the Motion on the ratification of Mr Likando Kalaluka’s appointment as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I think that I will be repeating points that other hon. Members have already belaboured if I talk volumes on the attributes of Mr Kalaluka. So, I will just try to shed more light on the fears cast over the timing of the appointment and the nominee’s perceived lack of experience, having served at the Bar for eleven years. Suffice it for me to say that, looking at the nominee’s curriculum vitae (CV), certain attributes that made the appointing authority to settle for him come out.

Sir, the following are the attributes of Mr Kalaluka that I want to share with the House to persuade hon. Members to ratify his appointment. The first is diligence. We need an Attorney-General who is diligent because he/she advises the Government. The second is a combination of enthusiasm and motivation. The nominee has risen through the ranks. In fact, the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) has cited his experience in the United Kingdom (UK), where Queen Elizabeth II lives, as an example. So, how can he fail here?


Dr Lungu: In fact, looking at the report, I see a typical and serious contradiction because, on Page 10, the members of your Committee say that they are satisfied with the qualifications of the nominee which, in general terms, means that they are agreed. A satisfactory grade is the first pass. As long as one gets a satisfactory grade, they have passed the examination. It does not matter that it is not a distinction. One does not carry a degree in the streets saying, “I just got a credit.” What matters is one passing, and Mr Kalaluka has done that.


Dr Lungu: So, the Committee is contradicting itself by saying that he needs ten or more years of experience to be appointed to this office. I believe that it is not the number of years that you serve in one firm that matter. One does not have to serve the ten years in ten firms. That is not what we are talking about.

Sir, I have lectured in universities at home and abroad, and I have seen situations in which candidates use ten booklets to answer one question, but there are no facts in their answer. However, some would use just one booklet, but get a distinction. So, I urge hon. Members to follow the direction that my friends have already pointed out for the House.  We are even tired of sitting here. So, let us just agree that …


Dr Lungu: … Mr Kalaluka is our new Attorney-General and ratify his appointment.

With these very few words, Mr Speaker, I support the Motion.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I put the question that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee Appointed to Scrutinise the Presidential Appointment of Mr Likando Kalaluka to Serve as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 24th March, …

Dr Simbyakula: On a point of procedure, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am being reminded.


Mr Deputy Speaker: These are the reminders that we accept and appreciate.


Mr Deputy Speaker: The reminder came from various sources but, when I see the Clerks-at-the-Table look at me, then, I know that there is something amiss. So, I went a bit ahead of the procedure. I will now allow the hon. Minister of Justice to wind up debate on this Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I thank the mover and seconder of the Motion and all those who have supported it on the Motion on the Floor.

Sir, as your Committee has rightly reported, having served eleven long years at the Bar, the nominee is more than qualified to assume the Office of Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia. We, as a Government, are happy with the support that this House has given this nomination.

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, I thank all the hon. Members of this House for supporting the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Now, I can put the question.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.






Clauses 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2:

(a)    on Page 5, in line 20, by the deletion of the word “or”; and

(b)    on Page 6;

(i)    in line 8, by the insertion, immediately after the semi-colon, of the word “or”; and

(ii)    after line 8, by the insertion of the following paragraph:

“(f)    a member’s employers;”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.



[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Tax Appeals Tribunal (Amendment) Bill, 2015.

Report Stage on Thursday, 26th March, 2015.




The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1728 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday 26th March, 2015.