DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 26th March, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

ISSUES SURROUNDING MR DARIO BONETTI – FORMER COACH FOR THE SENIOR ZAMBIA NATIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, you may be aware that in July, 2010, Mr Dario Bonetti was engaged as the Zambia National Football Team coach. His two-year contract, which was signed with the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ), was expected to run up to July, 2012. However, in August, 2011, FAZ decided to terminate Mr Dario Bonetti’s contract without prior consultation with the Ministry of Youth and Sport.

Mr Speaker, the Government only learnt of this development through media reports carried out in both print and electronic media. Following this development, the hon. Minister of Labour, Youth and Sport at the time, Hon. Shamenda, summoned FAZ to a meeting over the issue of the termination of Mr Dario Bonetti’s contract. In consideration that the ministry was not consulted or informed by FAZ over the decision to terminate the contract, the hon. Minister requested for an updated report from the association.

Mr Speaker, during the meeting, FAZ confirmed the termination of the contract, citing the following reasons:

(i)     the coach was handpicked and, as a result, was not screened for international experience, past record and African experience;

(ii)    despite qualifying the Zambia National Football Team to the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON), the FAZ President indicated that the players had complained about Mr Dario Bonetti’s poor football expertise;

(iii)    Mr Dario Bonetti lacked respect for the FAZ Executive members, management and the Zambia National Technical Team.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Shamenda, who chaired the meeting, advised FAZ against the termination of the contract and requested it to consider reversing the decision to fire the coach. However, FAZ strongly indicated that it was not possible to reverse the termination of the contract. The FAZ President further emphasised that the association had acted within the realms of the contract to dismiss the coach on 12th October, 2011, because they felt that the coach had performed poorly.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister cautioned the association that as a result of its stance, the decision was likely to attract cost implications that could have been avoided had it considered reversing the termination of Mr Dario Bonetti’s contract. FAZ was cautioned to exercise thoughtfulness and adhere to the provisions of the labour laws and regulations in its process of dealing with the issue to avoid any legal implications. Thus, the hon. Minister directed FAZ to handle the matter in a peaceful and orderly manner.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that in October, 2011, the hon. Minister of Labour, Youth and Sport also issued a ministerial statement in Parliament on the issue of the coach. In his statement, he indicated that the Government does not interfere in the running of football in Zambia, but was not amused with the manner in which FAZ had fired Mr Dario Bonetti and recruited his replacement. He further indicated that the Government had no funds to pay the newly recruited coach, but would meet the cost of terminating Mr Dario Bonetti’s contract.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that Mr Dario Bonetti’s separation was not well handled by FAZ. This led the fired coach to sue and subsequently report FAZ to the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA) which ruled that he be paid compensation claims amounting to US$348,000, approximately K2.6 million at the exchange rate of K7.6 to one US Dollar.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that in February this year, after I took over the Office of Minister of Youth and Sport, I called for a meeting with FAZ in which the following suggestions on how best to address the issue of Mr Dario Bonetti’s overdue payment were made. The following options were:

(i)    that FAZ undertakes to meet the cost of dues from its resources as earlier agreed upon with the then Minister of Youth and Sport, Hon. Fackson Shamenda;

(ii)    that the Government meets 50 per cent of the cost and FAZ also covers the other half;

(iii)    that the Government pays out the entire cost of Mr Dario Bonetti’s outstanding dues on an understanding that FAZ meets the cost of salaries for the current Senior National Football Team coach and assistant in 2015.

Mr Speaker, in the meeting, FAZ indicated that it was not in a position to meet the outstanding arrears. In this regard, the ministry proceeded to write to the Ministry of Finance and requested for special funding. The amount requested was K2,296,800, at the exchange rate of K6.6 to one dollar. However, we received new information from the lawyers of Mr Dario Bonetti with regard to the outstanding amount to be paid. The new payment will take into account the interest accrued from the 30 days expiry period from the date of the notification of the judgment served on 4th April, 2013. Therefore, the total amount due now stands at US$421,670.39, equivalent to K3,289,731.04 at an exchange rate of K7.8 per US Dollar, which is the current exchange rate.

Mr Speaker, kindly note that Zambia was given the deadline of 20th January, 2014, to pay, failure to which the case would be taken to the Disciplinary Committee of FIFA. Considering that we failed to meet this obligation, there is a disciplinary hearing scheduled for August, 2015, to discuss the case and apply appropriate disciplinary sanctions arising from non-payment of monies owed to Mr Dario Bonetti.
Mr Speaker, in order for the country not to suffer FIFA sanctions, which may entail non-participation in international football competitions, the ministry requested for intervention and consideration from the Treasury for special funding to quickly settle the issue.

Mr Speaker, I am glad to inform this august House and the nation, at large that the Government, through the Ministry of Finance, yesterday released K3,289,731.04. The payment of Mr Dario Bonetti is being processed as I speak.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, let me commend the Government for bailing out, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mooya: … yes, for bailing out the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ).

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I was following the events, and if Mr Dario Bonetti had not been fired, we would have not won the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) in 2012.  However, I would like to know what action the Government will take against FAZ, because it seems that it was dragging its feet in settling the expelled coach. What sanctions are you going to mete out against FAZ?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I said, in the statement, that my predecessor, Hon. Shamenda, met FAZ to discuss these matters. They had agreed that in the case that FAZ had fired Mr Dario Bonetti, and owed him a compensation package, the Government was going to pay what was owed to him. However, it was not going to take the responsibility of paying the current coach in 2015. That was the agreement, and I think that is punishment enough for FAZ.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, this is not the first time, in this country, that we have heard the Government, the Ministry of Youth and Sport, in particular, and the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) having stand-offs. I always wonder why that is so, considering that the Government pays a lot of money towards soccer in this country. I believe that if someone at FAZ was going to take an important decision such as firing the National Football Team Coach, I assume that they should have informed the Government. How possible is it that such a decision could have been taken without consulting the Government, and yet it is the one to pay for the penalty? Therefore, my question is: What is this Government doing to ensure that we do not have a repeat of this incident? This is not the first time we are getting this kind of a story. Can we stop spending so much money on football, and also concentrate on other sports like netball and volleyball?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, there is no stand-off between the Government and FAZ. We may have had this kind of a case where there was bad communication between the two parties, and where each side had its own reasons why it did what it did. Like I said, in the statement, FAZ believed that the coach was imposed on it by the Government then, and that it never approved him, as he never met the requirements of a football coach in Africa. He had never coached here in Africa before. Therefore, based on that background, FAZ terminated the contract with him, and decided that as an independent entity, it should enter into agreements with coaches without the Government’s interference. However, FAZ and the Government now have a very good relationship. We are in talking terms, and have already mapped the way forward on how to avoid such kind of occurrences in future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the ministry is going to put in place to avoid this in future, especially that the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) will hold its Annual General Meeting (AGM) tomorrow. How can you allow executive members of FAZ, who have put the Government into quandary, to go ahead and stand for positions at the AGM?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, football clubs meet their association during an Annual General Meeting (AGM), like the one that is about to take place. They discuss their own agenda and matters. The Government has no say in what happens in that area. Our job is to grace the occasion as invited guests. We will be there just to show that we care about football, but not as participants of the proceedings of the AGM.  Therefore, we do not know whether people should be disallowed to contest in the association’s elections for whatever reasons. All that is, really, up to the football clubs or the people running the association. We do not want to interfere in the affairs of FAZ.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, K3,289,731 has been released by the Ministry of Finance to pay Mr Dario Bonetti. However, the ministry does not release funds for …

Hon. Opposition Members: CDF!

Mr Miyutu: … bridges in Kalabo, Mambilima and other places. Is the release of this money confirmation that the Government is not interested in serving the people in the rural areas, but is more interested in pleasing the outside world? Is this a confirmation?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, when Zambia wins in football, all of us celebrate, whether in rural or urban areas of the country. We all celebrate.

Mr Mwila: Yes, bwekeshapo!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, in fact, just last week, the hon. Member for Choma Central moved a Motion on the Floor of this House on the importance of football in this country. He talked about the importance of football to our health, how it unites us and everything important about that sport. Football involves people in both rural and urban areas. Therefore, let us not think that football is just for people in the urban areas, and that the decision we made was just to please them. I am sure that this news will also please the people in Kalabo and other rural areas …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: … who would have blamed this Government, had FIFA banned us from participating in international football competitions. In fact, even some upcoming football players in the Western and North-Western provinces, who would find themselves in the national team later, would feel disadvantaged if they would not be able to play international football because of the ban. The decision to pay Mr Dario Bonetti benefits the whole country.

I thank you, Sir.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, having played football, and as a coach at some point in my life …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can we have order.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, although they are laughing on the other side, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: … they do not know that I played national football …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Lt-Gen. Rev Shikapwasha: … for the schools.  I was one of the founders of Red Arrows Football Club. I was a coach and a player for the same football club. Red Arrows Football Club is still standing today. Therefore, I have a very good pedigree.

Mr Muntanga: They were not yet born.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, having said that, as a Member of Parliament for Keembe Constituency, I wish to say that my constituency like many other constituencies, has not received the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocated to us in the 2014 Budget.

Mr Speaker, there was an emergency in the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ), and money was released to pay Mr Dario Bonetti. It is really sad that the CDF cannot be disbursed on time, but we can rush to pay a fired national football team coach because of mistakes made by FAZ. Is this Government going to continue giving FAZ funds even after seeing how it has squandered so much money because of one bad decision?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, judgment to compensate Mr Dario Bonetti was passed in January, 2014. It has taken us this long to pay him. During this period, however, Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for constituencies to build bridges and so on has been sourced. Paying Mr Dario Bonetti was not a priority and that is why it has taken us this long to find the money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, if we had taken longer to pay him, it would have proved too costly for us because there was interest attached. The Ministry of Youth and Sport has a mandate to look after sports and sports related issues in the country so, maybe, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing can explain why the CDF has delayed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) had nothing to do with the employment of Mr Dario Bonetti, and that he was imposed on them by the Government.

Mr Speaker, when tax payers’ money is used, we would like to have transparency and accountability, especially when paying such a colossal sum of money. Hon. Minister, are you able to mention a particular individual or individuals in the Government who imposed this coach on FAZ?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, according to FAZ, the Government presented the coach to them, and, as the Government, we do not single out individuals because we act as one entity.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: No!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, when they were discussing …

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. Is the hon. Minister in order not to answer my question on whether FAZ would be sanctioned, especially in terms of funding or is the Government going to continue giving it money just so that it can abuse it? He did not answer my question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: We have constantly advised that where you feel that your question has not been answered adequately, you can ask the next person to ask the question.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: That has been the guidance. I can even produce a record for you.

Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, you may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, when they were discussing on whether the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) was able to pay …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to fail to answer a very simple question? We cannot hide behind the Government. There has to be somebody within the system who should be held accountable.

 Is he in order not to name a particular individual or individuals in the Government, who imposed Mr Dario Bonetti on FAZ?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, if you have an answer, you can give it.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I stated that FAZ indicated that the Government presented the coach to them. The association did not tell us who in Government …

Mr Mucheleka: Rupiah Banda and his children.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can Hon. Mucheleka, leave the Assembly Chamber?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, leave the Assembly Chamber. You can come back after the first break, but it is up to you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, you may proceed.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, when this Government asked FAZ whether it would pay the coach’s compensation, the association indicated that it had no money. Now that Mr Dario Bonetti has been paid, who will shoulder the salaries for other coaches?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, as I answer this question, I would like to take into account Hon. Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha’s concern about the sanctions imposed on FAZ.

Sir, we are trying to see how best the Government can work with FAZ so that it can also contribute to this payment. Currently, we have asked FAZ to take care of another coach, Mr Patrice Beaumelle, whom we have also not paid for a long time. He is also contemplating taking action against us by reporting us to FIFA. So, instead of the Government paying Mr Patrice Beaumelle his dues, we have asked FAZ to look for money and take care of him. This is one sanction we have imposed on it.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) is not one of the agencies of the ministry. Hon. Minister, is it possible to turn the money paid to Mr Dario Bonetti into a loan so that FAZ, instead of getting this money for free, pays back to the Government because that money was supposed to build a clinic in Nyakuleng’a and Lwitadi?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the obligation to pay national football team coaches is on the Government. This is a decision that was made at the time the hon. Member for Zambezi East was in Cabinet.

It was a Cabinet decision taken a few years back. This is why as the current Government, we find ourselves in a situation where we have to look for money to pay dues to this coach. We were going to continue paying the coach, anyway, because it is our obligation. The one issue we complained about was the manner in which he was fired.  

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the end justifies the means. This Bonetti person …

Laughter

Ms Imenda: I wanted to use an unparliamentary term. Mr Dario Bonetti was, to me, incompetent and he was fired for that. This is how come they brought in Mr Herve Renard, who was able to deliver the results.

Hon. Minister, in Mr Dario Bonetti’s contract, was there no clause for dismissal if he was found to be incompetent?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, my understanding is that there was a clause in the contract stating that if he failed to qualify the Zambia National Football Team to the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON), his contract would be reviewed, but that if he succeeded, the contract would stand to the end. That means, you cannot say that he was incompetent because he qualified the Zambia National Football Team to the AFCON. That is why when he went to FIFA and asked for compensation, the judgement was ruled in his favour. The bottom line was for him to qualify our national football team to the continental competition, which he did.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, my original question has been taken, but I will ask another one. What is the procedure for selecting a national football team coach in Zambia?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, that is a preserve of FAZ. That is for it, not the Government, to know. We are not the ones who select the coaches.

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia does not select the coach for the national football team on behalf of the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ), but it is mandated to pay the coach. It has no right to do anything to FAZ except provide it with money to pay the coach. Is the Government thinking of reviewing this, because he who pays the piper calls the tune? It pays money, but has no say. Is the Government not willing to review this decision?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, we, in the Government, are not soccer experts to know who is a good coach and who is not. I, as Minister, do not know, as I am not an expert in soccer. My job is policy formulation. We have mandated FAZ which has a directorate.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: In fact, there is a director of …

Hon. Government Members: Technical services!

Mr Mwale: ... technical services who should be able to work within FAZ. If the Government is to employ coaches, then it should employ for the national netball team, the basketball national team and the hockey national team as well. I am not an expert and I do not think the ministry has experts either. We must mandate our own associations to be able to operate freely and choose experts to run sports in their institutions.

Mr Mwila: Naulanda!

Mr Mwale: Our obligation is to give them support, and we give it to all the sports associations, including FAZ, to make sure that they have a competent coach by giving them enough money to get one.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Uchili uleima, iwe!

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, there seems to be confusion between the Ministry of Youth and Sport, and the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). On one hand, the hon. Minister is saying that FAZ selects the coach, while on the other hand, he is saying that Patrice Beaumelle will not be paid by the Government, even though it is its obligation to pay the national team coaches. Meanwhile, it is paying for a handpicked coach who had no respect for our players to the extent that they complained about him. When are you going to put your house in order, as far as you and FAZ are concerned? It has taken too long to settle this issue.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, we have formulated rules of engagement for the future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, is the current coach being paid, and is he owed any arrears?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the Zambian National Football Team has no coach but, instead, it has a technical director seconded to the national team who has no contract as a coach. Whether they will confirm him or employ another one is the decision of the association. However, the national football team has no coach and only has a technical director seconded to it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musukwa: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, what qualifications did Mr Dario Bonetti have, and is there no Zambian coach with the equivalent qualifications? Would you pay a Zambian coach the same amount of money Mr Dario Bonetti was collecting if they were of the same qualifications?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I am not able to recollect what Mr Dario Bonetti’s qualifications are. I had time to go through them, but I cannot recall. All I know is that he used to play for Juventus Football Club in Italy. However, I can provide that information at a later date.
Sir, I do not know how much money Zambian coaches have been paid in the past and whether it compares to what expatriate coaches are paid. I am not able to tell the House at the moment. However, in future, we want to set the rules and standards on how coaches should be paid, whether they are local or foreign. We are in talks with FAZ on the modalities of engaging these coaches (local and foreign), and what level of consultation is necessary with the Government and, maybe, those kinds of things can be taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, there is a lot of talk in the public domain about financial mismanagement in the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). It is also dogged with corruption and undemocratic tendencies …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Hamudulu: … when it comes to selecting office bearers. When the hon. Minister is asked to intervene, he says that he does not want to interfere with the affairs of FAZ, but when it is faced with financial problems, he is quick to assist.

Mr Kambwili: What is the question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask the question.

Mr Hamudulu: The question is coming, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, please, just ask your question.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister reconcile the Government’s position. You have a delinquent child and you stand aside and say that you do not want to interfere, but when it is in financial trouble, you rush to bail it out. What is his position?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, FAZ has got its own rules and systems on how to deal with financial matters and how to check accountability. It has councillors who meet at the AGMs where books of accounts are presented for scrutiny. We have no right, as the Government, to interfere with its affairs because these are rules that have been created by the world soccer governing body, FIFA. Every country in the world, including Zambia, is complaining about this but, unfortunately, this is how things are. We do not have any powers to check what is happening in FAZ.

Sir, for example, you were talking about biasness in the election of FAZ officials, but we have no right to interfere. However, the football teams have management that meets to provide the required oversight over the people that run the affairs of FAZ. For now, we have to leave it to them until it is flexible enough for us to be able to do anything else.

Mr Speaker, the Nigerian National Football Team was banned, not long ago, because the Government did not recognise the leadership of the football association that was there. They wanted different people. We have also seen that the Zimbabwe National Football Team has been banned, right now, for failure to pay their former coach. This Government cares for this sport and the people who love it. That is why we have had to intervene in this matter. Whether we like it or not, the Government has had to bail FAZ out because of the care that it has for the people that love football in this country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I heard from the hon. Minister that the President of FAZ came out strongly in ensuring that this man was fired even when he knew that the decision had such consequences. What are you doing to ensure that the President of FAZ is disciplined?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I have said that we have asked FAZ to take care of the dues owed to Mr Patrice Beaumelle as a way of sanctioning it so that next time, it handles such matters carefully.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Deputy Speaker: I will have the last six hon. Members from the following constituencies: Kabompo West, Chembe, Choma Central, Mwembeshi, …

Mr Livune: Katombola!

Mr Deputy Speaker: … Katombola …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: …. and Mumbwa.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I am concerned with the sustainability of soccer in Zambia in terms of coaches and the payment thereof. The Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) is independent and, as an independent body, it is supposed to have autonomy in terms of financial status and management. Given that scenario, is the Government, together with FAZ, working on a plan to ensure that there is sustainability in terms of payment of coaches and the running of football in the country?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier on, we are in talks with FAZ to make sure that this kind of case is not repeated. In Zambia, it is very difficult for sports associations to generate funds on their own because I think most of us do not appreciate sports activities. We do not even go to watch local league games where funds should be raised. The question of sustainability is a critical one. The Government currently does not support the Under 17 National football Team, Under 20 National Football Team and the Women’s National Football Team in any way. Our obligation at the moment …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Mwale: … is to support the senior national football team. I think that these are the rules that were set sometime back. We do not want to start supporting the other teams because we cannot sustain them. We are, therefore, encouraging FAZ to engage the corporate world for financial support. I am glad to say that it has signed a sponsorship deal with MTN Zambia worth US$3 million for the next three years so that it is able to fund its own programmes. I know you might be wondering why it cannot get money from that deal to settle this matter with Mr Dario Bonetti, but its sponsors would not allow it to do so. It has other programmes that its funding, and not what happened in the past. The association is actually beginning to stand on its feet.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, first of all, this weekend’s Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) Annual General Meeting (AGM) is not elective. So, there are no executive positions that are up for grabs. Secondly, hon. Minister, I want to thank you, most sincerely, for that bold decision to save the people’s game because football is the number one sport in the country. Thirdly, I am not comfortable with the sanctions that you have imposed on the association. In your statement, you mentioned that you have sanctioned it to pay the current coach as well as the former coach Mr Patrice Beaumelle, knowing that it is not in a good state to meet these costs. Are you not solving one problem and creating another one, where FAZ will not be able to meet the requirements of paying an international coach in this regard? Will you be able to revisit the sanctions?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I apologise if I created an impression that we do not want the Government to pay the national football team coach this year. I was referring to the decision that was made during the reign of Hon. Shamenda, as hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, that the Government was going to pay Mr Dario Bonetti, and that it was going to ask FAZ to pay the current coach. We have actually revisited that decision. The sanction given is that it has to pay the dues owed to Mr Patrice Beaumelle. As for payment of the current coach this year, we are still looking at how we can manage that. The possibility is that the Government will pay whichever coach FAZ will hire.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, in your response, you indicated that one or two of the reasons why Mr Dario Bonetti was fired were that he was not a good football coach.  In the same breath, you also stated that he had been given a target to achieve, which was to qualify the national football team to the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) tournament. Do you not think this argument that he was not a good coach, when he actually delivered on the benchmark; was just a pedestrian one to kick him out?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said, FAZ is the one that is running football in this country on behalf of the Government and FIFA. It is very difficult to argue with it as to who is the best coach and so on. It looked at this issue from a different point of view. It looked at how he related with the players. It has a technical director who assessed his tactics, which we cannot do. It is very difficult for us to argue with it. It went ahead to bring a coach who then helped us win the Africa Cup. When that happened, we began to think that it was right. We are not experts to know whether it was the right decision or not. What we cared about most was the procedure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, the critical thinking on this matter brings to light that the problem is with the Government. The responsibility to hire the national team coach lies in the armbit of the Football Association Zambia (FAZ). Why did you then impose this coach on it?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thought that we dealt with the matter. The Government decided that it was going to help FAZ with the coach but, later on, FAZ did not need that help. It actually needed to select and hire its own coach. This could have been caused by bad communication between the two parties. When we felt we needed to help the association, it thought otherwise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, when did the Government get the expertise to hire a coach outside the football fraternity? Do you not think it was something which was wrongly done by a family which had interest? Where did it get the expertise to hire a coach because even Kambwili, although he is busy giving you answers, has never been an expert in football?

Laughter

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I will ignore the issue of the family because I am not privy to such information. The Government thought it needed to help FAZ with a coach but, maybe, it did it wrongly because the FAZ administration did not need that help. It could find a coach on its own. We have learnt lessons from that experience.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, kuuza mwana, ni kumusilizila …

Hon. Opposition Members: Meaning?

Mr Livune: … or kuugama chuulu, meaning you must be straight to the point. Can the hon. Minister confirm that Mr Dario Bonetti was imposed on the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) by the former President, Rupiah Banda, and what penalty or fine will he be given towards the debt that has been paid?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Although we are not supposed to discuss individuals, hon. Minister, you can answer that question.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I will say this for the fifth or sixth time. The Government, at the time, presented a coach to FAZ, therefore, to assign blame to a particular individual is not appropriate. Even now, I am saying that the Government has released the money to pay Mr Dario Bonetti. I am not mentioning one individual or the Ministry of Finance as the sole bearer of the responsibility. I insist that the Government, at the time, presented a coach to FAZ although the local football body never liked that move.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

MEASURES BEING TAKEN TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF BROADCASTING SERVICES BEING PROVIDED BY BROADCASTING HOUSES
The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to update this House and, through you, the people of Zambia on the measures that the Government is taking to improve the quality of broadcasting services provided by broadcasting houses in the country.

Mr Speaker, the broadcasting industry in Zambia has, over the last ten years, recorded a tremendous increase in the number of radio and television stations. The nation, currently, boasts of seventy-eight radio and thirteen television stations countrywide. In addition, I wish to inform the House that the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) is now fully operational and performing its mandate as provided for in the IBA Act No. 17 of 2002, as amended by Act No. 26 of 2010. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all my predecessors in the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting for working tirelessly to ensure that the IBA was made operational. This has made the work of the ministry easier in ensuring that quality broadcasting services in Zambia should not just be a dream, but a reality.

Sir, the phenomenal growth in the number of broadcasting stations in Zambia during the three years the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been in power is a clear testimony of its commitment to free speech and freedom of media in general. However, this growth has come with its own challenges, especially when it comes to monitoring and ensuring compliance with broadcasting standards and conditions of licences that the IBA issues to licencees. As a consequence of this, some unscrupulous people have taken advantage of this challenge and are using some broadcasting houses to promote negative vices such as tribalism, violence and hate speech which, as we all know, has deadly consequences if overlooked.

Mr Speaker, some ethnic clashes witnessed on the African continent and elsewhere have been as a result of irresponsible media. It is, therefore, necessary for any responsible Government to take keen interest in the quality of broadcasting services and performance of the media in general.

Sir, to ensure that broadcasters adhere to the journalism norms, the IBA has developed a code of ethics and complaints procedure, in addition to the complaints stipulated in the granting of licences, as provided for in Section 22 of the IBA Act. The IBA Code of Ethics and Complaints Procedure were tabled on the Floor of this House last year by my predecessor. The IBA is, therefore, enforcing the rules and regulations as highlighted above. In that regard, I would like to take this opportunity to update the House of the work done by the IBA for the period 1st December, 2014 to 28th February, 2015.

Mr Speaker, the monitoring of radio and television licencees has revealed a number of ethical breaches to the licensing conditions by some media houses in the country. Some of the breaches were minor while others are serious and would require stern action by the IBA. In line with the provisions of the law, the remedial measures include warning, suspension as well as revocation of licences. Some of the common breaches by the stations include, but are not limited to, the following:

(a)    non-adherence to the approved type of content to broadcast as stipulated in the licence conditions;

(b)    operating without a licence;

(c)    non-payment of licence fees;

(d)    use of vulgar language;

(e)    failure by moderators of programmes to control and manage the programmes, especially phone-in programmes;

(f)    provision of broadcasting services contrary to the issued licence, subscription services, instead of commercial free to air; and

(g)    distortion, exaggeration, misrepresentation and material omissions of facts.

Sir, the IBA is working with all the erring licencees to ensure that these breaches are resolved amicably. Let me warn the erring broadcasters, however, that if they do not take corrective action as advised by the IBA, the authority shall have no excuse, but to enforce the law and suspend or revoke the licences.

Mr Speaker, I want to assure the nation, through this august House, that the Government has nothing to hide and, therefore, is committed to ensuring that the broadcasters improve their services. As the Government, we encourage the establishment of many radio stations as one way of promoting the dissemination of information to the public. However, we will not allow any mediocrity in broadcasting services which is likely to set the country on fire.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, not long ago, when our Head of State collapsed at the International Women’s Day Celebrations. A lot of media houses had different headlines pertaining to that incident. Some were putting headlines such as ‘His Excellency has collapsed’. One newspaper put ‘Chagwa agwa,’ meaning that Chagwa has fallen.

Sir, if you were to compare the headlines, collapsing has got medical implications attached to it compared to falling because a lot of Heads of State have fallen before. Surprisingly, the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting threatened The Post Newspaper, which had carried this headline, and said that the Government was going to withdraw the business which is given to it. Why did the hon. Minister react like that? Is it because The Post Newspaper did not use the headline according to his taste?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, when you are not in Government, you sometimes fail to comprehend certain issues.

Sir, it must be realised that irresponsible media reports can land this country into a lot of problems. Generally, in Africa, investments and the performance of the economy are largely dependent on the presidency. What I said was that the idea of carrying headlines on the health of the President for fifteen or twenty days continuously would have a negative impact on the economy, investment and, indeed, on the value of the Kwacha against other foreign currencies. Therefore, the Government has a responsibility to guide when they think that things are going out of hand, and that is what I did.
 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika): Mr Speaker, indeed, there is a need to commend the Patriotic Front (PF) Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: … for having improved radio and television broadcast signals. Let us call a spade, a spade. For sure, the PF Government has done a lot.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister update the House on the establishment of the provincial broadcasting stations.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, this Government has decided to provide, at least, one broadcasting station in each provincial headquarters so that we improve on the dissemination of information to our people. The House may be aware that people have made certain decisions based on assumptions, wrong information and propaganda altogether. Therefore, this Government has decided to build provincial studios to disseminate information. Soon, I will travel to Choma to lay a foundation stone for Choma Radio Station. My predecessor, Hon. Katema, already visited Solwezi where he laid a foundation stone for the radio station there. So, we are on top of things.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, information is power and people should be well informed so that they know what is happening around the country. May I find out from the hon. Minister whether they have plans to extend or increase the coverage of radio receptions to places like Chadiza, where radio signals for radio stations like Radio Phoenix are not accessible? Does the ministry have any plans to increase the coverage area for Chadiza in particular?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, this issue was dealt with two days ago through a question on the Frequency Modulator (FM) Transmitters that we are rolling out countrywide. I, therefore, think that even the area where my brother comes from will be covered.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for this statement.

Sir, does the hon. Minister know the individual who answers to the name and title of Bishop Chomba, who has also shared the platform with the Patriotic Front (PF) Government before? This man is on record as having said that my leader, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is a satanist.

Sir, one of his colleagues, the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, has also been quoted, by both the public and private media, as having said that the Seventh Day Adventists, a denomination that I belong to, are Satanists which, to me, amount to what he was elucidating here as hate speech. I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) and, indeed, the PF Government, is doing anything to sanction the two members who have been standing on a high pedestal calling others names. Is your Government doing anything to sanction Hon. Christopher Yaluma and Bishop Chomba, who are on record for calling those who worship on Saturday as Satanists? If you are not doing anything, do you not think that you are just being a paper tiger by reading a statement as refreshing as the one you have delivered this afternoon, which will promote peace, honour and dignity to human kind?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister should follow the one question, one answer rule.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central knows very well that we do not discuss matters that are in court. I, therefore, have no comment on the statement issued by Bishop Chomba.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this is a change of heart because he has been quoted in the media as one of those who are a menace to the womenfolk in the country. He called my political party chairperson, Hon. Mutale Nalumango, ugly, with a bad heart and so on, in his speech on a platform outside the House. Is this a change of heart, where you are now going to be moderate in language use and ensure that you, actually, lead by example, by the words that you utter?

 Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I will forgive him because he is not Bemba by tribe, and so, probably did not understand the proverb that I used.

Sir, what I said was, ‘Abantu bamo, babipa imitima ngefyo babipa pamenso. Fwebambi, ngaine, twalibipa pamenso, lelo, imitima isuma.’ I did not refer to anybody. So, if the hon. Member feels that statement fitted Hon. Nalumango, so be it.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, …

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There will be no points of order during this segment.

Prof. Lungwangwa: … in his statement, the hon. Minister gave us the impression that there are improvements in the quality of broadcasting in the country.

Sir, the world is going digital this year. We should be hearing this Government’s relationship of broadcasting to the digital migration that we are undertaking because this will inevitably improve the quality of broadcasting.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I made a ruling, no points of order.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Could the hon. Minister shed light on the inter-play between the measures the Government is taking to improve the quality of broadcasting, and its relationship to the digital migration that the world is going to see this year.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform the nation, and hon. Members of Parliament, that we are implementing Phase I of the digital migration. The closing date for all the countries in Africa to migrate is 17th June, 2015. Unfortunately, due to non-availability of money, we may not meet this deadline.

Mr Speaker, let me state that the hon. Member who has just asked the question was in Government when this digital migration started. Those in the previous regime did not do anything to raise money for this programme. When we came into office, we managed to raise some money for the first phase, and we have now raised more money for the second phase. We may not migrate by 17th June, 2015, completely, but along the line of rail, everybody will have done so by this date. Before the end of this year, we would have covered the whole country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, …

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have ruled that there will be no points of order for now.

Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, is the Government considering giving Muvi Television Station a licence for countrywide coverage, considering the good work that this station is doing in terms of informing and educating the public?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member has asked that question because as far as I am concerned, Muvi Television Station has already gone digital. As long as you buy their decoder, card and pay the subscription, you can watch it anywhere in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the media is the Fourth Estate and an essential ingredient in good governance. In the hon. Minister’s statement, he informed us that the Government is encouraging the establishment of radio stations. I assume these are community radio stations. The Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) is at the centre of the issuance of licences for these radio stations. Why is it taking so long to issue these licences even when community radio stations have submitted all the necessary requirements?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I want to restate that irresponsible reporting by a media house has the potential to set this country on fire. Therefore, the IBA has got procedures for checking the directors and people that want to engage in the media business. If we are not careful, we can end up bringing terrorists to come and transmit messages about terrorism. So, there is a procedure to follow. There is a security check on the people that want to establish radio stations. The authority is doing a very good job because to give seventy-eight radio and thirteen television station licences is not a mini achievement.

I thank you, Sir.

HEALTH CARE OF THE PRESIDENT

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, thank you for granting me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement to the House on the important issue of healthcare of His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Dr Kasonde: The health of the national leadership, particularly that of the Head of State, has always been a priority issue for all countries. In Zambia, the level of concern has been heightened by the experience of the loss of two sitting Presidents, leading to public anxiety about what care is accorded to the Head of State and the need to be kept accurately informed.

Therefore, the purpose of this statement is to brief hon. Members on the current arrangements for the Head of State in Zambia and other national leaders, and to present plans for strengthening the system.

Principles

Mr Speaker, the following principles underline the health care of the national leadership:

(a)    Confidentiality

Every patient is entitled to confidentiality, and every medical practitioner is sworn to observe the same as described in the Hippocratic Oath. However, the patient may choose to disclose any information either directly or through a third party. This latter provision is usually applied by public personalities, such as, political leaders;

(b)    Choice of Medical Attendant

Every patient has the right to choose who will attend to him/her in his/her illness. In the case of public figures, the exercise of this right will be subject to the advice of those authorised to do so by the governance system; and
(c)    Consent

Every patient is entitled to consent or not to consent to such arrangements or procedures as may be proposed for him/her, subject to appropriate information conveyed to him/her.

Current Practice

Mr Speaker, the current practice in Zambia is that the President chooses and appoints one medical practitioner as Physician to the President, who normally receives a stipend defined by the Government. The Physician invites a team of health professionals who constitute the President’s health care team. These have included medical practitioners and one or more nurses. They may serve on a long-term basis or as ad-hoc advisers on specific medical problems.

The persons covered by the team include the First Lady, but in Zambia’s cultural set up, the extended family have usually been beneficiaries of the team’s care. Moreover, senior Government leaders have often sort the assistance of the Physician to the President. The personal Physician, therefore, has a ‘general medical advisor or practitioner’ role, regardless of the position held in the public or private sector of the person seeking assistance. Further, the role of ‘Medical Adviser to the Government’ is also common to Zambia’s personal physician and other countries, for example, the Surgeon-General in the United States of America (USA).

Medical Facilities

Mr Speaker, locally, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and Maina Soko Military Hospital have been used by past Presidents at different times. The annual full medical examination for the President, when applied, was usually conducted at the UTH. Occasionally, a private sector institution has been used. In addition, a small facility is available within State House.

For the President’s medical treatment outside Zambia, it has always been assumed that there is a facility readily available. The initiator of this action has, however, become disorganised following the restructuring of the Ministry of Health and the abolition of the position of Director of Medical Services, who was also the President’s personal Physician, to the extent that the health of the President in Zambia has been managed on an ad-hoc basis, without due consideration of the risk of having various people involved in the health of the President or the first family.

Communication

Mr Speaker, public information about the President’s health has become everybody’s business. The guidance given officially by the hon. Minister of Health has been that the personal physician gives out information to the public, through the Press Secretary to the President. This guidance has, at times, been disregarded by political leaders.

Way forward

Mr Speaker, moving forward, the Government has decided to make the following arrangements:

(i)    institutionalising an autonomous office of the Physician to the President, who shall be appointed by the President on the advice of peers and other relevant authorities. The Physician to the President shall be the head of a team constituting the Presidential Medical Unit. The functions of this unit will be to look after the health of the President and his family; to facilitate the health care of senior members of the Government; and to provide medical services to visitors to the President. The Physician to the President shall be mandated to have access to all military and non-military health facilities. He/she shall include other medical duties as would be the case if the background was in a clinical practice. The Physician to the President shall be accorded military status in the event that he/she is appointed from civil society.

(ii)    the Physician to the President shall be guided and assisted by the Head of the Public Medical Services and the Head of the Military Medical Services in matters of administration and logistitics.

(iii)    the Physician to the President shall not normally be in dialogue with the public concerning the health of the President. He/she would channel information through a spokesperson, the President’s Press Secretary or the Ministry of Health, as needed. Occasionally, the need may arise for the Physician to speak out through a bulletin or a statement.

Mr Speaker, I hope that these guidelines will enable hon. Members to expect accurate information from the right people, and not to make it a subject of inaccurate misinformation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Health.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to commend the hon. Minister for a statement that is bold understanding the situation that Zambia has gone through. We hope that this will help to look after our President, his family and senior Government leaders well. He mentioned that this medical personnel, if he is appointed from the civilian population, will be accorded military status. Can the hon. Minister explain whether this person is going to be trained as a military person or is going to be given honorary military status?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the essence of this decision is the need for any person with this function to have free access to both the military and non-military institutions. We know that in many countries, a physician to the President would be a military person with a military background. We also know that in many countries, the opposite is true that a civil person becomes a physician to the President. However, experience has shown that the military institutions have an important function to play just as the non-military institutions. Therefore, the definition of the requirements from a military point of view will have to be left to the military to advise. What is important is that they accept the need for such a person to have military access.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that statement. I imagine that your statement has been occasioned by the experiences that we have had as a country. We normally say, once beaten, twice shy but, in our case, it is twice beaten, thrice shy. Hon. Minister, can you confirm that you have brought this statement here to eliminate all forms of innuendoes and rumours that, in the past, have been caused by the Government’s desire to not tell the truth whilst respecting the issue of privacy of an individual. Also that they have been caused by the Government’s failure to disseminate the truth regarding the health of a sitting President as the case was when we were informed about late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC. that he was jogging in London and yet was terminally ill, may his soul rest in peace, and also when we were told about the status of our immediate past President, the late Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul also rest in peace. Can you confirm that it is as a result of the awkwardness that was presented by your Government in the case of President Sata and their Government (pointing at the hon. MMD Members) in the case of late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it has never been the intention of this Government and, I believe, other governments to conceal the truth. Where there has been difficulty has been where that truth has not been sufficiently timed in order for people not to speculate. In the case of our own community, we know that speculation spreads so fast that it sometimes precedes even the events themselves. This is because, it is argued, the intentions may not be to establish the truth, but instead, to ensure that the opposite is communicated.

So, I cannot agree, Mr Speaker, that the governments then and now have deliberately gone to these lengths to prevent the truth being known. What we are trying to do now is ensure that people know who to ask and that might have been the missing element.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, may I know whether the services of this medical team for the Head of State will also look into the health of Her Honour the Vice-President.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, yes, in my statement, I did indicate that, while the Physician to the President and his/her team are primarily responsible for the medical and health care of the President, they shall also facilitate the health care of senior Government leaders.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, having experienced what we have as pertains to the health of our past Presidents, the late Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. and Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may their souls rest in peace, we were informed that there was a mini hospital, with state-of-the-art equipment, set up at State House. I would like to know the status of this mini hospital, following the demise of President Sata and whether or not this mini state-of-the-art hospital will be run by the personal Physician of the President.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, there is no such structure as a mini hospital for the President. However, there is a small facility, within the State House, which the President may use in the event of a need to consult his/her personal Physician. The team will use what is available, and if the team decides that a mini hospital is needed, we shall be ready to listen and attend to what it says.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, there is nothing wrong with any human being falling ill, but there is everything wrong with attributing the wrong prognosis like malaria to him/her when in actual fact it is achalasia. This is a condition which the President was treated for at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) thirty years ago. Why did you evacuate him to South Africa when years ago, he had a similar condition which was treated at the UTH?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, this is a difficult area. An area in which the amount of understanding of the person who is asking the question about a certain matter may not always be available to that person.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: The final diagnosis is based on information as obtained at the operative time, after further examination and investigation. All these processes depend on an understanding of the way diseases progress. That is the way they are diagnosed. It is almost certain that those who began to show concern about the differences between achalasia and malaria were more concerned about their own lack of understanding of the diagnosis and treatment of the President.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: It is our intention, in this case, to minimise this lack of understanding or misunderstanding in the case of the illness affecting His Excellency the President.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that the President was operated on for the same condition in the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) thirty years ago. Did it worsen this time around that it had to be treated at a specialised hospital other than the UTH?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for this question because it is exactly what I am trying to point out. I am not the personal Physician to the President. Let us leave these matters to his personal Physician, and he or she may choose to direct this information via certain sources which we should respect.

Sir, I, therefore, insist that the confidentiality and depth of understanding involved in this matter is not what we, as the public, can share. I would consider it inappropriate to begin analysing medical information about how this was done thirty years ago and what the significance of the history of a certain illness is to the current situation. These are medical matters which we should leave to the medical attendant.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I want clarification from the hon. Minister. There was a statement on the Floor of this House by the former Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, who referred hon. Members of Parliament to State House to get clarification on what the state of affairs was with regard to the health of His Excellency the Late President Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. Will this apply to our sitting President or will questions be channelled through the office that you are about to introduce?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the guidance that I have given is that information will emanate from the personal Physician to the President. That information may be channelled in three possible ways. First, the personal Physician may use his/her own spokesperson who will be delegated to state such information. Alternatively, the Press Secretary to the President, who is, therefore, the Press Secretary to the patient, will be given the information to distribute. Finally, on very rare occasions, there may be a need for the personal Physician to decide that he/she should personally communicate this information to the nation. As for the rest of us, please, let us stay out of this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, where I come from, we say, ‘Usweke misongo tande, mukayalila kuli?’

Laughter

 Mr Mutelo: In this day and age, we live with online media where speculations are so high. We have social media sites like Twitter, the Watchdog and Whatsapp Messenger where information just flows. What are you going to do when you have so many speculations against what you are trying to cover up? What are you going to do?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The question is understood. Hon. Minister?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am certainly not trying to cover up anything. The point that has been raised by the hon. Member is important. The speculations that I have referred to may come through electronic type of communication. We all know that it is very important for those who want to use this online media to appreciate the difference between truths and lies. If they are going to do that, they ought to know where to obtain true information. What we are trying to establish and have always tried to do is have one place to get the true information. Therefore, if whatever media communicates information and it is not the one I have listed, then it is suspect from the very beginning, and anyone who goes with that kind of message is himself/herself part of the problem.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, in the past, the Head of State used to have an annual medical check up at our biggest public medical institution, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). Does the Government, through the proposed Physician-General, intend to encourage the current and future Presidents, as well as senior Government officials to undergo routine medical checkups, not just when they are sick, at the UTH so that they can restore public confidence in the public health institution?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, again, a very important issue as what guidance, of a personal nature, should be given to the President on his/her own lifestyle and medical examination. It is a subject on which I can speak with some authority, and I can say that it is the responsibility, ultimately, of the individual’s personal Physician as opposed to the responsibility of a supervisor or the medical group, to give personal guidance and confidentiality to their patient. The important thing is that we hope all our Executive members of the Cabinet and our hon. Members of Parliament are taking note of that information about lifestyle and getting medical checkups annually. However, we hope that they do not pick up personal information about the President’s health anyhow from anyone or anywhere. It is the personal responsibility of the personal medical attendant to provide that information to the individual.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

RECONSTRUCTION OF KANYONJA BRIDGE IN CHIEF SHIKABETA’S AREA

478. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when Kanyonja Bridge in Chief Shikabeta’s area in Rufunsa District, which had collapsed, would be reconstructed;

(b)    whether the Government was aware that the collapse of the Bridge had affected service delivery to the area between the people of Chief Shikabeta in Rufunsa District and the people of Chiefs Mbosha and Chembe of Mkushi District;

(c)    what had caused the delay in reconstructing the Bridge;

(d)    what the cost of reconstructing the Bridge was; and

(e)    what the time frame for the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the reconstruction of Kanyonja Bridge is expected to commence in the second quarter of 2015. The procurement process for the engagement of a contractor has reached an advanced stage. The works were advertised, bids have been received and the tender award is expected by 15th April, 2015.

Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the collapse of the bridge has affected service delivery, hence, the process to procure the contractor.

Mr Speaker, the lengthy procurement process has affected the commencement of the repair works of the bridge.

Mr Speaker, the cost for the repair works will be determined once the tender process has been finalised.

Mr Speaker, the time frame for the project is expected to be three months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, this bridge collapsed in June, 2014, and all efforts to have the Government rebuild it have failed. Since this is an emergency, is it possible to reconstruct it without following the lengthy procedure? People have been severely inconvenienced.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, there was an initial attempt to vary a contract for a contractor who was operating near the scene of the bridge, but we faced obstacles, hence, we had to fall back on this lengthy procurement procedure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister is aware that the bridge collapsed, what help is he giving to those people who used that bridge?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, currently, the people are using the bridge. They can walk across it, but it is the vehicles that are not able to pass through. So, for now, the people are still using the bridge, and they are getting their services.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, just this afternoon, we heard how much money will be paid to Mr Dario Bonetti. A lot of money has been paid out for mistakes that were made by the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). Here is a desperate situation in Rufunsa District. The poor people, who are represented by this Government, are crying for assistance with the bridge. Hon. Minister, should you not put emergency measures to fulfil the needs of your people as you did for Mr Dario Bonetti?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are doing all we can to ensure that we help them. We may use the Defence Forces, under the engineering squadron, to help us with the emergencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, looking at the construction stages involved, that is, the sub-structure, super-structure, and attainment of strength of concrete, is the three-month construction period realistic? I thought the minimal period is supposed to be six months.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question from my fellow engineer. The bridge we are referring to is the standard concrete type. We are just building culverts. Therefore, we will be able to address those processes.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN CHEMBE

479. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would facilitate the construction of communication towers in the following areas in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Kabange Farming Block;

(b)    Tande;

(c)    Sub-Chief Ngomba;

(d)    Sitambuli; and

(e)    Kasepa.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, Kabange Farming Block, Tande, Sub-chief Ngomba, Sitambuli and Kasepa in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency will be considered during the surveys intended to programme the areas for construction of communication towers in Phase II, which is scheduled to commence in April, 2015.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

STAFFING LEVELS AT LOCAL COURTS IN MITETE

480. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    what the staffing levels at the following local courts in Mitete District were:

(i)    Lupui;

(ii)    Lutembwe; and

(iii)    Namboma;

(b)    whether the courts above were operational and, if not, why;

(c)    what measures the Government was taking to rectify the situation; and

(d)    whether the Government had any plans to rehabilitate the courts and, if so, when.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there are employees assigned to Lupui, Lutembwe and Namboma local courts and the staffing levels are as follows:

    Court    Position                staffing levels

    Lupui    Presiding Local Court Magistrate      (1)

        Local Court Magistrate                 (1)

        Assistant Court Clerk                    (1)

    Lutembwe    Local Court Magistrate                (2)  

        Assistant Court Clerk                   (1)

        General Worker                   (1)

    Namboma    Local Court Magistrate                 (1)

Mr Speaker, currently, the local courts are not operational due to the non-existence of court buildings. The members of staff have been assigned to other local courts in Mongu, Kaoma, Lukulu and Mitete districts. They will be re-deployed once these court buildings have been constructed.  

The Government has planned to budget for construction of local courts and staff houses across the country, including this particular area, in the 2016 National Budget. In the interim, it is exploring ways of conducting circuit court sessions on specified dates using officers from Nyala and Kashizhi local courts within Mitete District. However, this shall be subject to the availability of funds.

Sir, the Government has plans to construct Lupui, Lutembwe and Namboma local courts in 2016. It, however, has no plans for rehabilitation works because all the local courts in Mitete District, apart from Kashizhi, require new structures.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, that is the correct situation.

However, hon. Minister, tell me something. You have three members of staff at Lupui, four at Lutembwe and one at Namboma, but these people are either in Mongu, Kaoma or Lukulu districts and, yet, they draw salaries as Lupui, Lutembwe and Namboma staff. Why is the situation like this?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I did highlight the fact that there is no infrastructure and no court operations at these three locations, hence, the re-deployment or assignment of these officers to those localities. We have explained the inadequacies in these and many other areas on so many occasions. The re-assignment has not been for convenience purposes, but is, in fact, useful even in those areas. When the local courts in the mentioned areas have been constructed, the members of staff will be re-deployed because that is where they are supposed to be anyway.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

FUNDS FOR AN AIRSTRIP IN LUWINGU

481. Mr Mumba (Mambilima) asked the Minister of Finance when funds for the construction of an airstrip in Luwingu District would be released.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Mvunga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that there is no budgetary allocation for the construction of an airstrip in Luwingu District in this year’s budget.

I thank you, Sir.

PAYMENT OF RAILWAY SYSTEMS OF ZAMBIA RETIREES

482. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    how many employees under the Railway Systems of Zambia were retired following the revocation of the concession by the Government;

(b)    whether the retired employees had been paid their retirement packages;

(c)    how much money was spent in terminal benefits;

(d)    what the outstanding amount was; and
(e)    what the cause of the delay in paying the outstanding amount was.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, following the revocation of the concession by the Government on 10th September, 2012, 884 employees under the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) were retired and none of them have been paid their packages.

Sir, no money has, so far, been spent, but based on the conditions of service for the RSZ and the provisions of various contracts, the total bill for the separation packages is K26,857,645.63. The outstanding amount is K26,857,645.63 as at 10th September, 2012.

Lastly, the cause of the delay in paying the outstanding amount is mainly attributed to the case appraisal. The Government initially felt that the RSZ was responsible for the liability until recently when it agreed to pay these packages.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, since we have some former Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) employees working for Zambia Railways Limited, what is the time frame that you have given?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, that is a very good consideration which has been taken on by the Government. Since most of these people are still working for Zambia Railways Limited, the said payments will be done on a continuous basis.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mambilima.

Hon. Members: Kapiri Mposhi!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Kapiri Mposhi.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, the concession for the Railway Systems of Zambia was revoked by the Government in 2012, and Zambia Railways Limited took over the management of the firm. Has this firm presented any audited accounts since then?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that that is a new question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I beg your pardon?

Dr Mwali: It is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.

TARRING KASABA-LUWINGU ROAD

483.    Mr Mumba asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the tarring of Kasaba-Luwingu via Chungu Road would commence;

(b)    who the contractor for the project was; and

(c)    what the total cost of the project was.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is envisaged that the works on the Kasaba-Luwingu via Chungu Road will commence in the second quarter of 2015. The contractor on this project is Mota-Engil Zambia. The total cost of the project is K238,939,701.83.

I thank you, Sir.

PROVINCIAL HOSPITAL FOR THE RURAL REGION OF LUSAKA

484.    Mr Chipungu asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct a provincial hospital for the rural region of Lusaka Province;
(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented;

(c)    what the estimated cost of the project was; and

(d)    in which district the hospital would be located.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct another second level provincial hospital in Lusaka Province to provide access to health care for the increasing population in the province. The Government has submitted proposals to various co-operating partners to financially support the construction of this second level hospital. The timelines for implementation of the project shall only be known once a favourable response has been received.

Sir, the construction of a second level hospital is estimated to cost approximately US$100 million, but it is, of course, impossible to establish exactly how much it would cost before the contracts are arranged.

Mr Speaker, the location of the second level hospital to be constructed in Lusaka Province has taken into consideration various planning parameters that include access as well as population. Due to the geographical location, the Western side of Lusaka is currently under consideration for establishing this facility.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I did not hear the hon. Minister clearly on when the construction is likely to start. I am also of the view that the Eastern side of Lusaka has no population compared to the Western side.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it is not possible to say when construction will start because, as I have said, we have not yet raised the funds required to build this structure. However, in terms of the Eastern side of Lusaka, our plan is to look at the province as needing a central referral hospital, two general hospitals and a district hospital for each of the districts. Kafue and Chongwe already have district hospitals, and we appreciate that there is yet to be a hospital built in Rufunsa District. We have already found a space where it will be built, but again, we are waiting to raise the appropriate funds to construct the Rufunsa District Hospital.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, you have indicated that you plan to construct a new hospital in the Western side of Lusaka. What specific location in that part of Lusaka will the hospital be constructed in given that it is a very big area? Which specific location are you referring to?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to welcome the hon. Member back.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the area of Lusaka West is close to where military residences have been built, but that is only the first suggestion. I do not think we can close that decision until we see what funds are available and, of course, consult within Lusaka.

Thank you, Sir.

MONITORING FUNDS DISBURSED TO WOMEN’S GROUPS

485.    Mr Mumba asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    what measures had been taken to monitor the utilisation of funds disbursed to women’s groups countrywide; and

(b)    when a motor vehicle for Luwingu District Office would be procured so as to enhance the monitoring exercise.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Limata): Mr Speaker, the ministry provides financial resources to the district and the provincial structure to undertake monitoring of these clubs. In addition, the ministry headquarters also undertakes on-the-spot visits to those clubs in the association. Further, the design of the sub-centre structures are made in such a manner that field officers are mandated to monitor the performance and activities of these clubs as they are situated in the community.

Sir, it is the desire of the ministry to procure a motor vehicle for all districts and motor bikes for all sub-centres at once to improve the delivery of community development services as well as all programmes. However, due to inadequate funding, vehicles and motorbikes are normally procured in a phased manner and Luwingu District will be considered in the last quarter of 2015. In the meantime, Luwingu District has a social welfare vehicle that is used for monitoring activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, with your permission, let me accept the acknowledgement of my return to the House by the hon. Minister of Health.  

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to tell us whether they receive monitoring reports on the utilisation of the funds that are disbursed to the women’s groups countrywide, and Luwingu District in particular? Do these reports indicate whether or not those funds are used for the intended purpose, and that there is viability in the activities that the women are undertaking?

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, we receive reports from the district and also the provinces. We also conduct periodic on-the-spot checks. We monitor the projects that are being undertaken by this department.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ROADWORKS ON THE MUSAILA/LUBWE/KASABA/SAMFYA/LUWINGU ROAD

486. Mr Mumba asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the contractor tasked to upgrade the Musaila-Lubwe-Kasaba-Samfya-Luwingu Road would move on site;

(b)    when the road works were expected to commence; and

(c)    if no contractor had been identified, what measures had been taken to improve the road, especially in the rainy season.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the contractor is expected to move on site in the second quarter of 2015, and the works are expected to commence at that time. A contractor by the name of BSBK Limited has been selected.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I thought part (c) of the question was, “What measures had been taken to improve the road, especially in the rainy season?”

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the question states, “If no contractor had been identified, what measures had been taken to improve the road, especially in the rainy season?”, and the answer is that there is a contractor who has been selected.

I thank you, Sir.

TARRING TOWNSHIP ROADS IN LUWINGU

487. Mr Mumba asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the tarring of township roads in Kafue District would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the ministry is aware that 9 km of selected township roads in Kafue District were rehabilitated under the Urban Township Roads Programme in 2011. The ministry has plans to continue rehabilitating the remainder of the 40 km of township roads in Kafue District in 2016, subject to the availability of funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, what criteria is used in selecting a particular district to undertake the tarring of its township roads? In Rufunsa, we are still yawning.

Laughter

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, although that sounds like a new question, I would like to state that the ministry receives applications from the districts. Therefore, we follow the list that we receive on a first-come, first-served basis, even though at the moment, the priority has been given to the newly-created districts to construct access roads.

I thank you, Sir.

WORKS ON THE ROAD FROM GHANA TO MBALANGANDA HARBOUR

488. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the road from Ghana to Mbalanganda Harbour via Magoye High School and Itebe School in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency would be constructed;

(b)    what the cost of the project was; and

(c)    when the K3 million allocated to the project in the 2014 Budget would be released.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is anticipated that the rehabilitation works on the Ghana to Mbalanganda Harbour via Magoye High School and Itebe School Road in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency will commence in the third quarter of 2015.

Mr Speaker, the initial project cost was K3 million. It is anticipated that these funds will be released by the third quarter of 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

TARRING TOWNSHIP ROADS IN LUWINGU

489. Mr Mumba asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the tarring of the 15 km township roads in Luwingu District under the Mansa-Luwingu Road Project would commence.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the works on the 15 km township roads in Luwingu District under the Mansa-Luwingu Road Project have been programmed to commence before the end of June, 2016.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, the contractor is working on the Mansa to Luwingu Road and has, so far, completed 74 km.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES ON THE LUNDAZI RIVER

490. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would construct the following bridges across the Lundazi River in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Gumba; and

(b)    Boyole.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has no immediate plans to construct the Boyole and Gumba bridges.

Sir, however, the local authority is expected to prioritise the repair or construction of these bridges and submit them to the Road Development Agency (RDA) for possible inclusion in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, Boyole is a busy road where trucks loaded with goods pass through on a daily basis, and there is an old bridge which is very low. When the river is full, the water floods the top and this creates heavy traffic. Therefore, I would like to request the hon. Minister to consider the construction of a new bridge on that road.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we will request the RDA to send engineers to go and carry out an assessment so that we can see what can be done.

Thank you, Sir.

__________

BILL

FIRST READING

URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING BILL, 2015

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I wish to present a Bill entitled the Urban and Regional Planning Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 3 of 2015.

Mr Speaker, the objects of the Bill are to:

(a)    provide for development, planning and administration principles, standards and requirements for urban and regional planning processes and systems;

(b)    provide a framework for administering and managing urban and regional planning for the Republic;

(c)    provide for a planning framework, guidelines, systems and processes for urban and regional planning for the Republic;

(d)    establish a democratic, accountable, transparent, participatory and inclusive process for urban and regional planning that allows for involvement of communities, private sector, interest groups and other stakeholders in the planning, implementation and operation of human settlement development;

(e)    ensure functional efficiency and socio-economic integration by providing for integration of activities, uses and facilities;

(f)    establish procedures for integrated urban and regional planning in a devolved system of governance so as to ensure multi-sectoral co-operation, co-ordination and involvement of different levels of ministries, provincial administration, local authorities, traditional leaders and other stakeholders in urban and regional planning;

(g)    ensure sustainable urban and rural development by promoting environmental, social and economic sustainability in development initiatives and controls at all levels of urban and regional planning;

(h)    ensure uniformity of law and policy with respect to urban and regional planning;

(i)    repeal the Town and Country Planning Act, 1962, and the Housing (Statutory and Improvement Areas) Act, 1975; and

(j)    provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when it completes its deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

_________

MOTION

STANDING ORDERS 20 AND 21(1) AND 101

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Sir, the second meeting of the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, which concludes today, started on Tuesday, 24th February, 2015, and as of today, the House has been sitting for a total of eighteen days. During this period, 198 Questions for Oral and Written Answer were considered by the House. In addition, two Government Bills were considered. The House also considered three Motions to adopt the reports of Select Committees, and one Private Members’ Motion was debated. Furthermore, a total of six annual reports from Government and quasi-Government departments were tabled and twenty-three ministerial statements, explaining and clarifying policies on various issues were also presented to the House.

Mr Speaker, in the course of the meeting, the House welcomed three new hon. Members who were nominated by His Excellency, the President. These are Hon. Margaret Mwanakatwe, MP, hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, Hon. Mulenga Sata, MP, hon. Deputy Minister at State House and Hon. Christopher Mvunga, MP, hon. Deputy Minister of Finance. Once again, let me congratulate them on their merited appointments and welcome them to the House.

Sir, although this meeting was relatively short, a lot of business has been transacted. Let me congratulate all hon. Members on the job well done and let us keep this spirit of hard work. It is only through hard work that we can bring about prosperity for the nation. I would like to pay special tribute to hon. Members of the Back Bench for carrying out their oversight function effectively by keeping the Executive on their feet throughout this meeting.

Mr Speaker, allow me to mention that this meeting of the House will remain memorable to us all as we had the first female Leader of Government Business in the House.

Mr Sichone: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: I take this as a new chapter in the advancement of women in leadership roles in the country. I call upon all women in Zambia to look beyond the horizon and apply themselves to the fullest of their potential and help move our nation forward.

Mr Speaker, as we adjourn today, I wish to call upon all hon. Members to go back to their constituencies and assess the effects of floods or drought in some parts of the country. As hon. Members are aware, some constituencies may have been affected by drought, leading to poor crop yields for this year, while others may have experienced above normal rainfall patterns. It is, therefore, necessary to note that the Government, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), will ensure that appropriate intervention measures are taken. In this regard, hon. Members should use the recess to, inter alia, assess the situation on the ground and gather the necessary information and pass it on to the DMMU. In the same vein, I would like to appeal to all hon. Members for areas where the harvest will be good to advise the people to harvest their produce in good time and store it properly so that nothing goes to waste. The Government, on its part, will continue to encourage the people to take good care of whatever is harvested.

Sir, let me reiterate the statement given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to this House last week, on the mobile issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). I urge all hon. Members, especially those from rural constituencies, to seriously sensitise our people on this important programme and make full use of it when it starts in their areas.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to express my gratitude to the hon. Mr Speaker, to you the hon. Deputy Speaker, and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House for the efficient and impartial manner you presided over the Business of the House. I pray that the good Lord continues to give you more energy and wisdom as you execute this difficult task of presiding over the deliberations of the National Assembly.

Sir, likewise, allow me to express my profound gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent services they have continued to render to the House. Let me also acknowledge, with gratitude, the important work done by the officers in the Office of the Vice-President and, indeed, the entire Public Service which facilitated the Business of the House. To you all, I say thank you, keep it up and may the good Lord continue to bless you.

Sir, finally, let me wish all hon. Members a Happy Easter and that we may use this Easter period as a time of reconciliation and restoration with God.

Mr Speaker, I thank you and I beg to move.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I will take a very short time just to add my voice in supporting the Motion on the Floor. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister for urging us to get back to our constituencies to articulate the various policies that have been put in place by the Government. Indeed, it is necessary that we go back.

Sir, I thought I should make this comment about a school, Chilyabale Basic, in Chongwe that is closed. The Government has made an assurance that within two weeks, this school will be opened, but one week has already passed. I hope that within two weeks, they will be able to assist us to ensure that this school re-opens. I, therefore, want to tell the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education that I will be available and ready to work with him to ensure that the school is opened.
Mr Speaker, the other point I have is on agriculture.I am disappointed because I cannot see any representative from the ministry, not even the Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. Since the Leader of Government Business in the House is here, I hope he can hear me out.

Sir, I would like to say that we are going to have a problem in Chongwe District arising from the poor weather patterns because the rains abruptly stopped but, aside from that, somehow or somewhere, something went wrong with the release of farming inputs. Whilst the Government released them on time to the suppliers, there was a problem because Nitrogen Chemical of Zambia (NCZ) did not pay the rent to the holder of that fertiliser. I am told that the people that were storing the fertiliser were holding the Government to ransom by refusing to release the inputs until they were paid for their rent. It was until last week that the fertilizer was released, which was too late because the rains have gone. Based on that situation, it is likely that there will be hunger in Chongwe District. Therefore, I would like the Government to take note of that situation and ensure that measures to cushion the situation are taken.

Sir, the problem that we have, as a district, which is in Lusaka Province, and is also near Lusaka, is that there is a tendency for people to forget that Chongwe District is actually an agriculture area. They think that because a number of people have acquired land in Chongwe, it is Lusaka. The House may wish to know that we have villages that are basically doing nothing else, but agriculture. As things stand now and because of the poor implementation of Government policies in the district, we have a problem because people have no money. I just want the Government to take note that we have a problem of agriculture in Chongwe District, especially this farming season.

Mr Speaker, the other issue, which I would like to bring to the attention of this House, is the policy on the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). Every time you talk about the NRCs, there is a tendency for people to mistake this exercise with politics, and that is the problem that we seem to have in this country. It is because everything is highly politicised.

The point, which I want to raise here, is that the issuance of the NRCs is an important exercise. We, therefore, hope that the statement which the hon. Minister of Home Affairs made in this House will correspond with what is going to transpire on the ground. This is because some of us have already started telling our people about the pending exercise based on the information that we got from the ministerial statement made by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. Therefore, we hope that what he told us is what is going to transpire on the ground. We also hope that the ministry officials are going to keep up to what the hon. Minister said. It is not good to change statements, like we saw when the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock told this House that the price of maize being sold to the millers had gone down and yet the food Reserve Agency (FRA) was not aware of it and was still selling their maize at the same old price. So, we hope that whatever we have been told in this House is what is going to happen. Some of us do not wait for the closure of Parliament to start work. Immediately the hon. Minister tells us something, we make photocopies and send the statement of the hon. Minister to the people on the ground. They then begin to work based on information on the statement. Therefore, our hope is that the Ministry of Home Affairs will do what the hon. Minister said, in terms of the dates that we have been given, because two weeks from the date he issued that statement will be the second week of April, 2015, which is the 14th of April, 2015. Therefore, we calculated the date and gave that information to our people on the ground.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I want to raise is that at the moment, there are many difficulties in this country in as far as the economy is concerned. The business community, the people and everybody are complaining that there is no money and that some businesses are closing up.

Sir, last time, the hon. Minister of Finance brought a Bill before the House, where he asked us to support him on the issue of the tax regime and we all did, both your right and left, because we thought that he had a good point. Now, within ten days, that issue has changed but, instead, it is another policy that has come. We are not even sure why things have changed because nothing has been said to us and yet we are now going back to our constituencies. We do not even know what we are going to tell our people because some of us stand on what we believe in and do not follow things blindly. When we see that something is right, we support it. When we see that is not right, it does not matter where it is coming from, we will say no to it because we are not here to please an individual. We are here to serve the people of Zambia and, for me, it is the people of Chongwe. Therefore, we supported the hon. Minister of Finance on the principle that he made a good presentation, and  we also  thought it made sense but, now, they have changed.
Sir, the whole day, I was hoping that the hon. Minister of Finance, who is my uncle and whom I have so much respect for, was going to explain to us why the policy has changed, but he has not said anything. Therefore, we do not know what we are going to tell our people or whether the move was right or wrong.

Mr Mucheleka: Ebanakashi, aba!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the other issue which I would like to talk about is the issue on the Constitution-making process. I hope that even if Parliament is adjourning today, the hon. Minister of Justice can give us a press statement on what is happening because we do not know what is going on. If anything, we are confused.

Sir, I know that good steps have been made by the Government on the Constitution-making process. I would, therefore, like to acknowledge that it has done well on the promises on this issue. I also know these are issues that some of us have been hearing about for a long time. The House may wish to know that some of us have been here for a very long time, in fact longer than some of our colleagues who easily get excited. However, I want to tell the House that we have been on this journey longer and we shall continue to be here as long as the people of Chongwe continue to give us that grace.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Sylvia, bauze!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I want to say that, so far, speaking for myself,  as Sylvia Masebo, and with the little experience I have had on the Constitution-making process, I am in support of what the Government has pronounced without really understanding the under currents because I am not part of the Cabinet. My understanding is that the Government means well on the Constitution-making process. I know that there are issues that may be very difficult for us to achieve in a short time such as the issue of resources. All that is very true. I, therefore, hope that it is what it is being said to be.

Mr Speaker, another important issue which I was hoping that, maybe, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House was going to comment on before we adjourn is the issue of Decentralisation. The reason for this is simple. I am a staunch advocate of the Decentralisation Policy and I have been there over the past few years campaigning for its implementation.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, if my memory services me correctly, I thought that the other day, you had proposed that the hon. Minister should come up with a ministerial statement on Decentralisation. Therefore, it was agreed that when we resume the Business of the House next Sitting, the hon. Minister will come up with a detailed statement. I am surprised that you are expressing disappointment that the hon. Minister has not done anything. Maybe, with that reminder, you might wish to change your statement.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I misunderstood. I thought it was this Sitting of the House, but I have been corrected that, in fact, the promise was for next the Sitting. That is okay. We will wait for the next session. However, I, actually, hoped that it would be this Sitting of the House so that we go and tell the people what has happened, so far, concerning this matter. This is an important subject. I am aware that the Government said the implementation of the first phase was with effect from 1st January this year, 2015. We have already passed January and February, when we come back _ when are we coming back, Mr Speaker?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Around June.

Mrs Masebo: In June, half of the year will have gone. That was my worry and I was hoping that the hon. Minister responsible would come up with a ministerial statement now so that we help articulate that issue.

Mr Speaker, I want to put it on record that accolades should be given to the right people. When those who are good at remembering who did what come to talk about this issue in future, history should not be changed. It should be noted that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did justice to the Decentralisation Policy. In particular, the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, took really good steps and showed political will in implementing the policy. I am aware that a circular has been sent to the districts stating that the implementation of Phase I is with effect from 1st January, 2015. Of course, in 2016 and 2017, there will be phases II and III respectively.

Mr Speaker, I think Decentralisation is such an important policy and we should do justice to it. I would like to help this Government to achieve something on the Decentralisation Programme. I am a strong believer that the Decentralisation Policy can be implemented if we continue with the manner that the late President started the process. At least, that is one vision those in Government now have genuinely followed. I can see some results and would like to be part of that implementation process.

Sir, before we come back in June this year, maybe, the hon. Minister responsible can go around the districts during the holiday to articulate this matter. I would like to join in on that process if it is undertaken.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that is of great concern to us is the one that was spoken about recently. The hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development, Prof. Luo, brought up a very important issue just yesterday regarding Gender-Based Violence (GBV). If you noticed, one of the things I was trying to ask the hon. Minister was to explain what measures the Government is taking to address this matter.

In Zambia, we think violence is just about the physical fighting between women and men. However, it is much more than that. In our daily lives, today, there is a lot of violence perpetuated not just against women, but against each one of us. Everybody is a victim. We are making each other very unhappy. This country is a Christian nation just in name, because there is so much evil in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: There is no respect, truthfulness or love for one another. There is cut-throat politics at play. One wonders where this country is going. If this House itself cannot lead by example, then I do not know what our future holds. I was hoping that my dear brother, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, was going to be here today to apologise to the young lady. I do not know whether he has gone to London, his constituency or is hiding in his office after what he did.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Sir, looking at our age differences in here, there are certain things that you would not expect from an elderly hon. Member of Parliament. There is this tendency of calling people bad names, especially women, we are really marginalised. Look at me, Mr Speaker. You know me very well. You are aware of how effective I am and that I am such a good woman.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I reserve my comments.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: When you hear the bad comments that come from our menfolk, it is very disappointing. I just want to plead with our men to be mindful of the fact that we are your mothers, sisters, colleagues …

Hon. Male Members: And our wives!

Mrs Masebo: The wife part is the end of the story.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Before I even become a wife, I am a mother and sister.

Mr Mbulakulima: Awe, waonaula!
Mrs Masebo: Let us note that these are just politics. The level of hatred, to the extent of not greeting each other, is worrisome. We cannot be good leaders with so much hate in a Christian nation. Let us forget about our past differences. By the way, I am not campaigning against my expulsion from the PF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I am just saying these things for the good of the country. Sometimes, when we make statements here, some people think you are looking for a job or something like that. I am not one of those people. In fact, I am not looking for anything. I am self-made and only fear God. Only God will take me out of this place.

Mr Speaker, I want to urge my colleagues that as we go back to our constituencies, let us work together …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: How can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs interfere with a woman’s speech?

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: This is the problem.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mutelo: You look at her.

Mr Mwila: You know you are my good friend.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe in order to talk about her expulsion and yet she has taken the matter to court?
Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, take note of that, Hon. Masebo. Since the issue is in court, you can veer off that path.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, this policeman knows that I know the extent to which I can discuss these issues …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order, hon. Member for Chongwe.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Masebo, you have said that we should talk to each other nicely, respect each other and so on. That is the spirit we should maintain. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is not a policeman.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, he is my brother actually, and I hope he understands the context in which I called him a policeman. He always threatens to arrest me.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, as we go on recess and visit our constituencies, I am just praying that we can all go and talk to our people about what good things our Government is doing for them. I also hope we will be able to tell the Government what it is doing wrong and the right things it should do.

For example, it is good to change a Government policy just after ten days of coming to Parliament and asking for our support. We are not doing ourselves a favour as a country. Whilst there could be reasons for change, it is how we change that matters and not necessarily the change itself. In this case, I am referring to the manner in which we have dealt with the issue of the mineral tax. I do not think we are doing justice to ourselves. We are now going back to negotiate with the mining companies as a very weak negotiator. After the Government had changed its decision, maybe, the best thing would have been for the hon. Minister of Finance to come back here to tell us how and why he wants to reverse the earlier decision. As things stand now, we are at our weakest point.

Mr Speaker, it should not be forgotten that I am a very old hon. Member of Parliament. I think people sometimes tend to forget this. I have been here for a very long time. Even when there was that committee of permanent secretaries going all over the world, in late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa’s Government, to inquire on the issue of mineral tax, I was around. There was a report that was brought here after intensive investigations. So, I know exactly what is going on.

There is too much arm-twisting by the mining firms, and we should not be weak as the Government. We must remain strong. What is right is right. A decision might be unpopular now, but we have to move on. If we believe we are doing the right thing, we should stick to our decision. Things might seem bad for now, but with time, they will get better. Uncle Chikwanda, I do not know where we are going.

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: So, I just thought I should make these comments and hope that the hon. Ministers’ offices will remain open during the break.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I want to make a few comments about issues of land. I do not know if the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection is here. I have problems of land in my constituency. For once, can the Government do things correctly? It has its agents, the councils, to ensure that things are done properly, instead of politicising land allocation. I want the House to know that even in the past, we gave cadres land.

It is not the first time that political parties in power have given out land. Even if the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into Government today, they would also give their cadres land, but …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … do it properly and legally through your agents.

Mr Livune: We will!

Mrs Masebo: Unlike what is happening now. I am not happy and I hope the Leader of Government, whoever it is among you (pointing at the Government Bench) takes note of this.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I am not happy with this issue. I am not sure who the Leader of Government Business in the House is and I do not mean to be disrespectful, but whoever it is, I want him/her to take note that we have a serious issue, because the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and Her Honour the Vice-President are not here and we are closing today. Only last week, I was told that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has land under his department which belongs to the National Institute for Scientific Research (NISIR). This land is being given out in a manner that is not proper, whereby; everybody does not know what is happening. We had this problem under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), during the run up to the general elections in 2011. My belief was that the PF was going to be different. I want to tell you that we are not different.

Mr Livune: You are worse off.

Mr Mutelo: You are the same.

Mrs Masebo: We are not different in the manner we are dealing with the issue of land. In fact, we have more problems now than ever before.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I really want to emphasise that I am not asking for anything, all I am saying is that can we do things according to the law.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chongwe has been here for a long time and I am sure, by now, she knows that the terminology for that person there is Leader of Government Business in the House. Just to remind you.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. As I stand to support the Motion that has been moved by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, I wish to say that a number of issues that he has raised are, indeed, very important, especially as we go on break.

However, Mr Speaker, there are quite a number of comments that can be made. This session or meeting of the House, as far as I understand, was meant to be legislative, but you may agree with me that it has actually been turned into a meeting of ministerial statements. Almost on a daily basis, there was a statement that was issued by an hon. Minister.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: We were expecting that during this session, the access to the Freedom of Information Bill would be brought to the House, but that has not happened.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, we were expecting the issue of the Constitution to be dealt with during this Meeting of the House, but that has not happened, except for the statements and promises that have been made by the hon. Ministers responsible. Given the history of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, I am not very sure to what extent I should be able to trust them.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: The people of Lubansenshi do not trust that the Bill on the Constitution will come through. I am not very sure. I hope, indeed, that it can happen. I still remain very sceptical.

Mr Speaker, as statements were being made, I had expected, at one point, at least, one to be made with regard to the challenges that we are having over climate change. Our people’s livelihoods across the country have been destroyed. We are going to experience a poor harvest as there is a looming crop failure. I would have expected a co-ordination between the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection on giving a statement with regard to how Zambia is preparing for climate adaptation. I did not hear anything about it. Our people in the Northern Circuit, particularly, in Lubansenshi Constituency in Luwingu District where I come from, are in Ecological Zone III, a high rainfall area. By now, we should have been talking about what measures we were going to put in place to ensure that our farmers in those areas are, indeed, able to produce a good crop. Given that zones I and II, which are the Southern Province and parts of the Western Province, are now expecting crop failure, what measures have been put in place to mitigate its effects? Did we hear any statement on irrigation infrastructure? That did not come through.

Mr Speaker, just the other day, the hon. Minister of Commerce and Industry made a very ambitious statement with regard to clusters. The story of the clusters has been heard before. When you look at the funds that this House allocates through the Budget, there is money which is allocated through the Youth Development Fund, Women’s Empowerment Fund or whatever it is called. There is also money allocated through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), but the challenge is poor co-ordination within the Government. There are no Government departments which are communicating with each other. By now, we should have begun to see results with regard to poverty reduction using these strategies that the Government has put in place, but because of a lack of co-ordination, no one is able to account, even, for the money that is given through the Youth Development Fund. If you look at the 2012 Auditor-General’s Report, K12.5 million was disbursed but, to date, not a single amount has been repaid. It cannot be accounted for because that money has been politicised. You have to belong to a particular political party for you to access the money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: The Women’s Empowerment Fund has also been politicised. Just this afternoon, I asked the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health to indicate whether or not she receives reports on how this fund is utilised. She indicated that she does receive the reports, but I doubt that confirmation because if she was receiving reports, we should have begun to see results. The economy is in shambles. The economic fundamentals are upside down. Our people are being confined to perpetual poverty and there is no hope whatsoever. What is the Government able to do? What are we going to explain to our people as we go on break? We want the Government to indicate what we should explain to the people on how these three separate funds I have mentioned, the CEEC, Youth Development Fund, and Women’s Empowerment Fund are being utilised and accessed to empower our women, youth and graduates who cannot find jobs.

Mr Mutelo: They are arresting them.

Mr Mucheleka: These are serious matters which the Government must be able to hear.

Mr Speaker, as we go on break, the challenges of good governance still remain. Some of the hon. Members of Parliament on your left side are still traumatised, including me, by the way we have been treated by the police.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: To what extent are we being assured by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs that when we go to our constituencies, we will be allowed to mingle with our people freely, to explain the Government policies and to provide oversight? Providing oversight is not only done in Parliament, but it is also done outside Parliament. We do not want to see a repeat of hon. Members of Parliament being harangued or arrested in their own constituencies. This is the only country where you even spend over K200 million on unnecessary by-elections, while our people continue to wallow in poverty. How do we prioritise our activities as a country? These issues are very serious.

Mr Speaker, this is 2015. I would have expected one of the hon. Ministers or Her Honour the Vice-President to come up with a statement with regard to the attainment of the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). I waited patiently to hear where we are with the MDGs, but did not hear anything. We have failed to achieve poverty reduction. 2015 has come and it is going. Other countries in the region have gone ahead to prepare post-2015 development frameworks. We have not done that. I have not seen any meetings or initiatives by the Government to bring together stakeholders, the civil society and private sector to prepare as we move forward, except to politicise issues.

There is so much hatred in this country. Being Opposition hon. Members of Parliament does not mean that we are enemies. We must love each other. This is our country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: You will not be in Government perpetually.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Mucheleka: There are other people who sat on the right, but are now sitting with me on the left hand side.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Some of you on the right were here on the left before you moved. Take note of that, especially that you do not even know your identity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: You do not know whether you are the PF, Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or whatever.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter
Mr Mucheleka: You are suffering from an identity crisis. You do not know who you are. So, when we tell you …

Mr Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Jealousy, iwe, ka Mwale!

Laughter

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, and my very good friend, in order to begin to question the identity of the Government in power, when it is very clear which Government is in power, and to forget that he is the one who has a problem of identity as an Independent hon. Member, as he does not know whether he belongs to the United Party for National Development (UPND) or Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: He is the one who has a questionable identity. Is he in order?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: By way of guidance, I think that now we are veering off course. We should confine ourselves to the Motion at hand because, now, I can see that we are bringing in some political jabs. We will go in the wrong direction. So, my ruling to that point of order is that we avoid this political exchange of views and confine yourselves to the Motion on the Floor.

Hon. Mucheleka, you may continue.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, you can, indeed, tell those who have a problem with their identity like Mwale.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! I have made a ruling.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, coming to the issues concerning Lubansenshi Constituency, and Luwingu District as a whole, we would have expected to have the hon. Ministers of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and Agriculture and Livestock to be in the House on this day. We have, in the district, a number of schools whose roofs have been blown off due to the heavy rains. As I said earlier, Luwingu is in Zone III, a very high rainfall area. The roofs for most schools have been blown off and there is no hope in sight. We have not been assured as to when these schools will be attended to. Our children have continued to suffer.

Mr Speaker, most of our roads and bridges have been washed away as I speak. Very soon, our people will begin to harvest their crop and it is only in the northern part of this country that we, perhaps, expect a good crop. This crop needs to be collected and stored in proper facilities, which we do not have. We were promised storage facilities but, up to now, we have not seen them constructed. The roads have become a disaster. The construction of most of the feeder roads across the country has stalled because there is no money in the economy to pay the contractors. These are serious matters that have to be attended to in Luwingu District, especially if we are going to ensure that our people’s livelihoods are improved.

Mr Speaker, as we go to our constituencies, allow me to reiterate the point I made earlier that we want to be protected. All of us are leaders. An hon. Member of Parliament is part of the Government irrespective of whether one is PF, MMD or whatever.

Hon. Government Members: Wasumina nomba?

Mr Mucheleka: No, I have not agreed.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: I am an Independent hon. Member of Parliament. My identity is well known. It is Hon. Mwale who does not know his identity.  He is chilingalinga. What do you call it?

Hon. UPND Member: Chilingalinga!

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, having said that, I also want to join the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in wishing each one of us a Happy Easter. Let us reflect on the fact that we only have one country. We must love one another.

Mr Speaker, more importantly, issues of governance need to be attended to. We saw strange things in this session, except that the PF Government does not learn from its mistakes. Take, for example, the issue of the ratification of some Constitutional office holders. There are some who were ratified without controversy in a straight forward manner. For example, we all supported the ratification of the Chief Justice and the Bank of Zambia Governor.

Sir, I was not in the House yesterday but, had I been, I, perhaps, would have been the only one to disagree with the ratification of the Attorney-General. There is a Solicitor-General who has been acting in that position for quite some time now. Why is he being marginalised? Why is he being left out? Why do you have to go and bring …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to take this august House, whose procedures are very clear, back to debating a report which was adopted yesterday? Is he in order to start scandalising the person who is now the Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia? I seek your serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, hon. Member for Lubansenshi, take that point of order into account. The aim should be to try to persuade each other to adopt one’s or the group’s view points. Let us not be at each other’s throats.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I have neither scandalised anybody nor mentioned any name. The point I am making is that we need to broaden and deepen our governance systems, including our oversight role. Looking at what has been happening, it is clear that we are the same people that have been advocating the appreciation of professionalism. If there is somebody who has been acting in a position, before you look elsewhere, that is the person you must give an opportunity. This is the point I am making. I do not mean to scandalise anybody. I have not mentioned any names.
 
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to say that the governance challenges still remain. We have weakened all the institutions of governance. We want to politicise almost every institution, including parastatals. This is why we find ourselves in the situation we are in. The country has no money, the parastatals are not functioning because they have been politicised.

Sir, I can mention parastatal institutions where chairpersons of boards of directors are cadres. At what point do they distinguish between politics and good corporate governance? We want to undermine every institution. This must stop. At this stage, we should be enhancing good governance. We need to deepen our democracy through strong institutions that provide oversight. This is what we must do.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I thank you.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for this opportunity. First of all, I would like to support the Motion moved by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. However, before I proceed with my comments, I want to thank and commend the hon. Minister of Health for the statement that he issued this afternoon on institutionalising medical care for the Head of State. What he has demonstrated is how things should be, bringing past experience and professionalism to the Office of the hon. Minister. He was the Personal Physician for our First Republican President, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda, if my memory serves me right. What he has demonstrated is experience at work.

Mr Speaker, a few days ago, I said that African countries are at different levels of economic and social development. If we look at them in the context of the Rising Lions and the Tigers of Asia, they are different. At first level, some lions are trapped and caged, while others are caged and angry. Some are out of the cage, but do not know where to go. Other lions are out of the cage and defining their territory. They know where to go. What the hon. Minister of Health has indicated at a personal level, as hon. Minister, is that he knows where he wants to take the ministry. That is how things should be. It is what we expect of our colleagues who are in Government. Do not be caged and trapped. This is the time to define the territory clearly, in terms of policies, plans and programmes, so that we can take our country a step further in the development trajectory.

Mr Speaker, having said that, the second point I would like to state is that given the current situation in the country, and that we are closing one week before Easter, this is the time for all of us to critically reflect on the state of our nation and, in particular, pray for the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Speaker, in 1981 I went for my doctoral studies in the United States of America (USA). I looked at my passport, which I was given, and saw that the exchange rate was K1 (old currency) to 60c. If you had K1,000 (old currency), you could be given US$600. That was in 1981. I was a young lecturer at the University of Zambia (UNZA) by then.  In 1991, when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) came into power, the exchange rate was K90 (old currency) to US$1. If you had K1,000 (old currency), you could only get US$11. This was a slump from US$600 to US$11 per K1,000 (old currency). If we reflect critically, those who were there know that the problem we had, as a nation, was that of being import oriented. In 2011, the exchange rate was around KR4 to US$1. If you had KR1, you could get 25c. Last year, when we were approving the 2015 Budget, it was around KR4.2 to US$1. Today, it is about KR7.90 or roughly around KR8 to one US Dollar. Over the last three months, our kwacha has depreciated from KR4 to US$1 to KR8 to US$1. If we did not rebase our kwacha, today, if you had KR1,000, you would only get US$12.50c.

Clearly, what I have pointed out here is a situation that is extremely disastrous for our country being an import-oriented economy. When you go to our malls, the clothing or everything you will see is imported from other countries. What does that indicate to our nation? When we look at the debt servicing, we now have to raise twice the amount of kwacha to service our debt. What does that imply for the Budget? We are in a very serious situation as a nation. I hope that we can all pray for our hon. Minister of Finance, so that we can find a way out of this quagmire as quickly as possible. That is one point which I thought was extremely pertinent for all of us to understand.

Mr Speaker, the next point is that this is a legislative session and yet, we only had two Bills presented to the House. That is not good enough in terms of our responsibility to the nation. I remember that in 2011, my colleague, Hon. Mutati, brought 187 Bills to the House. On average, during a session, we used to have about thirty Bills presented on the Floor of this House. However, two Bills have been presented to the House in this session, which is not good enough. Of course, we understand the circumstances that led to this, the by-elections we had and so on. The challenge to our colleagues who are in the Executive is that we should double the speed at which we are governing the country. Policy statements do not in, anyway, add value in terms of change in the country. When the ministerial statements come here, they are mainly about clarifications. What we would like to see, in terms of change in our country, are new Bills, new laws governing our lives and indicating where the country is going, and how it is being uplifted. That is why it is important for our colleagues in the Executive, who are in the governance of this country to work harder to bring Bills to the House. Challenge the technocrats and other stakeholders to reflect on the Bills and the laws that are already there, and navigate into new territories to bring new Bills to the House. That is very important. That will keep the Committees of the House on their toes. However, how many of the Committees are getting Bills? This is why I am saying that we must challenge ourselves as a nation. Two Bills clearly indicate that the output is very low.

Mr Speaker, thirdly, we have been told that 198 Questions were presented to the Executive. My simple calculation indicates that out of the 198 Questions on the Order Paper, 90 per cent of them have been on infrastructure development such as bridges, roads and schools. That shows the interest of the representatives of our people ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Lungwangwa: … and the problems that our people face, and what the Government should work on going forward in their development agenda.

Of course, the answer to 80 per cent of these Questions has been, ‘when funds are available’, clearly indicating that, as a nation, we are trapped in a resource constraints. I hope that our colleagues in the Executive will be able to reflect on this very seriously and see how even the available meagre resources can be re-distributed so that people in different parts of the country can have their infrastructure problems addressed.

For example, I have been talking about the Nalikwanda Road, which has been 55 km of sand for over four years now. To date, this road has not been attended to. There were promises from the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication that this road would be constructed, but now we are getting into the fifth year nothing has been done yet. I have pointed out in this House that the peasants and villagers are not being serviced by taxis, minibuses or buses and have to walk 55 km from Nalikwanda to Mongu. That is definitely not fair.

I am happy that the hon. Minister of Finance has all along in his Budget Speeches stated that he strongly adheres to equitable development and distribution of development programmes for our nation. This is how it should be and, clearly, we expect our colleagues, who are handling the infrastructure component of our development challenge, to think equitably. Now that the rains are over, I hope that the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, who is in charge of our infrastructure development, as a nation, will challenge himself to see what can be the best solution for the peasants of Nalikwanda by, at least, bringing this road, which is only 55 km, to vehicle standards. Even with constrained resources, could you be seen to work on this so that those peasants do not have to walk 55 km?  

Mr Speaker, when these people happen to chance a dilapidated Land Rover, they pay K150 for a distance of 55 km. This is how much a person pays from Intercity Bus Terminus to Mongu. You can see the difficulties and problems that these people are facing. As their representative, I have brought this problem to the attention of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication on numerous occasions, and I hope that this time, they will make a difference so that the plight of the peasants in that constituency can be addressed.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, this is the time for us to think differently in terms of the destiny of our country. We should be able to find a way of ensuring that simple things are done expeditiously for the good of all of us. For example, why is it that Lusaka has no simple things like lane marks on the roads, thereby making driving in the evening a big challenge?

 One has to really strain one’s sight to see where the lane begins and ends. It is no wonder we have these accidents on our roads. Many of our people who are professionals and can contribute significantly to the development of the nation lose their lives on the road every day. Can we not do simple things like that? Can we not control minibus drivers who deliberately stop anywhere? Do we not have the capacity, as a nation, to address such simple issues? If we do not do this, it indicates very clearly that we are still at the trapped and caged stage of the African Lions, and I do not think that this is the stage at which we should be, fifty years after Independence.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Namwala, you may go ahead with your debate.

However, before you proceed, I have a short announcement to make.

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

SUPPER ARRANGEMENTS FOR HON. MEMBERS AFTER ADJOURNMENT

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that when the House adjourns sine die, arrangements have been put in place for hon. Members to have supper in the Members’ Restaurant at Parliament Buildings. The supper will be provided courtesy of my hon. Self, the Deputy Speaker.

Laughter
_______

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can the hon. Member for Namwala, proceed?

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I will take all the contributions and arguments of the other hon. Members who have debated as my own, especially Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s point on the exchange rate. This is because in economics, the strength of the currency is used to determine the acceptability of the political party in Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, when the currency is fast losing its value, it means that even the political party in power is fast losing its popularity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I, totally, agree with Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa that, indeed, this is a legislative session, but it is very disappointing that only two Bills have been tabled. I will use the two Bills as a yardstick for my debate.

Mr Speaker, if I were to compare the last four years of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) in power and the first four years of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Government, there is a very big difference. You can tell that our colleagues are heading nowhere. The MMD, in their last four years, had 187 Bills while the PF, in their first four years, have only had sixty. This is sad. I do not even know what I will tell the people of Namwala as I go back tomorrow.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.  

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, before the Business of the House was suspended, I was saying that performance of the currency determines or helps people understand the Government’s capability to manage the economy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Member: Hakainde, Hakainde!

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, …

Hon. UPND Member: Baka lemwa, alimwi!

Ms Lubezhi: … the PF Executive, which has lamentably failed to bring Bills to this House during this session, has reduced this Sitting of the House to ministerial statements. They have brought numerous ministerial statements with endless policy U-turns.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: In short, the PF is a failed project.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: That is right!

Hon. UPND Member: Headless chickens, mama.

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, if I am to compare the MMD and PF governments in relation to the Bills they brought to this House. In 2008, despite the calamities we had, as a country, the MMD managed to bring twenty Bills.

Mr Nkombo: Sure?

Ms Lubezhi: The PF, last year, coupled with the calamity we had, only brought twelve. In 2010, the MMD brought fifty-two Bills to the House. In 2011, we all know we had the elections in September and that the year was almost gone, but there were thirty-four Bills. However, most of these were the MMD Bills and not the PF Bills, as they only managed to bring eight Bills in 2011 while the MMD had twenty-six.

Mr Livune: What is the reason?

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the reason for this is simple.

Hon. Opposition Members: Indolence!

Ms Lubezhi: I understand that it is very difficult to preside over a broken society, which they brought to ruin due to poor policy direction and indolence on the part of the Executive.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Can you withdraw the word ‘indolence’. It is unparliamentary.

Ms Lubezhi: I withdraw it, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Laziness!

Ms Lubezhi: Laziness, Sir.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, when they bring these ministerial statements, …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order has been raised, and that will be last point of order because I want as many people as possible to debate.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this very important point of order. Is Hon. Lubezhi, Member of Parliament for the good people of Namwala, in order to come up with those statistics without acknowledging the people who researched that information she is using, including the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, Hon. Dr Kaingu, who is not here?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: Is she in order not to acknowledge that the information was researched by Hon. Dr Kaingu?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: You see, that is why, we, as presiding officers, make decisions that it will not be necessary to allow anymore points of order. Be that as it may, she is definitely in order to give those statistics, because that is evidence that she has carried out a thorough research.

Continue, hon. Member for Namwala.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I thank you. As a mother with a big heart, I will forgive the greenhorn.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Who is the greenhorn?

Hon. Opposition Member: The greenhorn!

Mr Livune: Chilangwa?

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I was saying that I wished hon. Ministers lived by the words of the ministerial statements they bring to the Floor of this House. Zambia would have probably been a better nation if they did, and they would have managed to take us forward.

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear! Zambia forward!

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, I can give an example of the ministerial statement we had this afternoon from the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting. He gave us a good written speech, but what is pertaining in his ministry is something else. It is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting which is on record as having harassed certain media houses because of some of the headlines they wrote. They go to the extent of going to these media houses to harass the reporters.

Mr Nkombo: Shame!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, many hon. ministers are on record as having called themselves leaders because they have been winning elections, but leadership is not about winning elections only.

Mr Livune: Even mad people win elections.

Ms Lubezhi: They stated that His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s victory on 20th January, 2015, is a testimony of his competence as a leader. However, what have they done, as hon. Ministers, to prove his competence? These are the people who …

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mulamu! No more points of order.

Mr Livune: The Speaker has ruled, were you out?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. I am reluctantly allowing the point of order.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me this very important point of order.

Sir, this is a non-controversial Motion and you have advised, on several occasions, that this is not a Motion that we really need to debate or use to recall matters that have already been debated on the Floor of the House.

 I need your serious ruling on this matter, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: On what?

The Deputy Chairperson: He is indirectly reminding hon. Members that the Motion before us is straightforward. I have listened, most carefully, to the contributions, and the hon. Member for Nalikwanda is the only one who mentioned something to do with the Motion. The rest of the debaters have been running cross-country debates right from the word go.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: It is a timely reminder that we must pay attention to the matter at hand. At least, refer to the Motion, indicating whether you support it or not and, then, you can take it any route you like. It is just a timely reminder. It makes the debate orderly.

Proceed with that ruling.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I stand to support the Motion on the Floor, ...

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: … but as I go back to Namwala, I will find it difficult to tell the people of my constituency what this PF Government has done, especially during this Sitting of the House other than U-turn on the policies. During the Questions for Oral Answer segments, the only thing they talked about is the fact that they are the people in leadership, and they won the Presidential By-election on 20th January, 2015, due to Edgar Lungu’s competence. The question is, “What have they done in their ministries to prove his competence? How many Bills have they brought to this House?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! He is President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, you know. We must respect office holders.

Proceed with that reminder.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: We must not debate like newspapers do. Just like you are an hon. Member, he is His Excellency the President.

Proceed with that in mind.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune interjected.
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Katombola, it is about time you pegged your mouth.

Please proceed, hon. Member.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance amidst so many disturbances. What is it that the PF Government has done in their ministries to prove the competence of His Excellency Edgar Chagwa Lungu, which they can sing about?

Mr Nkombo: Bali amalila, weh!

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting told this House that the Bill of Information is with Cabinet and, if not, then, it is with the Ministry of Justice. Today, we are rising and nothing has happened. What has happened to the Bill of Information? I would have loved it if it was brought to the House because it was going to protect our journalists who are harassed when they do not report in a manner that the ministry wants them to. If they had brought this Bill of Information, even the media houses were going to be protected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is it the Freedom of Information Bill?

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, yes, the Freedom of Information Bill.

The Deputy Chairperson: I thought so.

Ms Lubezhi: I thank you for your correction. I will use the Freedom of Information Bill as a yardstick. What pride does it give this Government, for the Ministry of Home Affairs to go to the extent of assaulting a dead body?

Laughter
Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I am talking about our late political party comrade, Grayzer Matapa’s funeral. It was a sad day for some of us who attended his burial because the police attacked a funeral procession. We had to go back to Ambassador St Ann’s Funeral Home to change the coffin. If only this Government could bring Bills that will protect every citizen of this country. All this is happening because we do not have a law which stipulates how we, as political organisations, must burry our people or go about our funeral processions.

Mr Speaker, this is a Government which …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.  

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala in order to talk about a case which is before the courts of law? You are aware …

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Yes!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, you are aware that the police arrested three suspects in connection with the incident and they are appearing in court.

The Deputy Chairperson: It seems that others want to knock off early. The ruling is that when the hon. Minister of Home Affairs made a ministerial statement, he informed the House that some suspects had been arrested and that they would be appearing in court. If that is the position, then, obviously, it is advisable to veer from that matter and debate other issues.

Proceed, hon. Member.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, talking about the oversight role and good governance, I did not know that in this country, we do not have a specific law which determines how you go about a public funeral procession. It is on record that the PF cadres went about carrying mock coffins, but the police did not disperse them. When the United Party for National Development (UPND) went to bury their colleagues, the police even reached an extent of assaulting a dead body. That is what I meant by saying that we even went to the extent of changing …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Resume your seat, hon. Member.

When rulings are made, they are for the benefit of the hon. Members, both debating and not debating. I ruled much earlier that a ministerial statement was given in this House where the hon. Minister of Home Affairs informed the House that three suspects had been arrested in connection with that particular matter. This means that the matter is before the courts of law. As for now, we do not know whether the suspects are police officers or not. It is for that reason that you are advised to veer off that course for fear of jeopardising the investigations and case that will be in court, if it is not in court already. If that is difficult, I may be forced to take other measures.

 Continue, hon. Member.  

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I am still talking about good governance and the oversight role.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I will go and tell the people of Namwala that the PF Government will start arresting all the political party cadres who will demonstrate mock funeral processions. There was one particular scene which was demonstrated at the Presidential Inauguration Ceremony, and they were all there smiling at such a mock funeral occasion. There was a dog dressed in a UPND leader, Hakainde Hichilema’s campaign T-shirt, which was put on top of a coffin, but the police were not there to disperse the people who were doing such a thing. This happened on a dignified occasion where Heads of State were in attendance. What picture are we portraying to the outside world?

Mr Speaker, examples of such poor governance by the PF are endless. In Kasama, about a week ago, there was another mock funeral procession.  These people should do a soul searching so that they realise that Zambia is for all of us and not for the PF alone.

Mr Speaker, they talk of good leadership. What good leadership is there when people are starving? What good leadership is there when these are the people who are shamelessly insulting and assaulting women as long as they do not drink together? I am borrowing His Excellency President Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s words that he did not appoint some people because they do not drink together.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, a woman was assaulted at Soweto Market because she did not support the PF. It is such bad governance that we should condemn. When they bring these ministerial statements, they must live according to their word. Leadership, as I said, is not about winning elections, it is about being in tune with the suffering of the people that you are governing. Leadership involves doing what is right for your society.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: They think leadership is just about power. They can reach the extent of murdering each other during by-elections, like what happened in Livingstone. They can go to the extent of perpetuating corrupt practices during elections because they only believe in power.

Sir, the PF is failing for one simple reason. We all heard during the run-up to the 20th January, 2015 Presidential By-election, the current President himself said that he had no vision for the country.

Mr Shakafuswa: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, that is the reason the PF Government has failed to bring Bills to the House. It only brought one Bill because the other one has not even gone through.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: However, their friends in the MMD Government are on record as having left 187 Bills. That was a good report …

Mr Nkombo: With a vision.

Ms Lubezhi: … and they had a vision for the country.

Mr Speaker, what will I tell the people of Namwala when I go back tomorrow, concerning the agriculture policies where, now, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has almost become like a Minister of Maize Millers? He has forgotten about the farmers and they are not being protected. They have banned the importation of edible fats and as a result, some jobs will be lost amidst creating jobs as per the PF Government promise. What is good leadership when there is a wage freeze and people cannot get employed? What is leadership when the people you are governing are hungry and upset with the Government? The PF Government has adopted people whose court cases were nullified in the courts of law because of corruption. Is that what we call good governance …

Mr Nkombo: No!

Ms Lubezhi: … or is it because they only wanted to increase their numbers by adopting some people from the MMD?

Mr Speaker, what good governance trait is it that the PF, today, can tell us that in less than a year, the people of Zambia will vote them back into power because of it?

Mr Nkombo: Heavy borrowing!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, Zambia is heavily indebted, and I do not even know what I will tell the people of Namwala. To date, the PF Government has procured twenty-one loans.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi: The interest paid on borrowed money is more than some of the ministries’ allocations. How can you run a country like that? Even as we debate this Motion, there are a few Cabinet Ministers in the House and yet this is a very important Motion. They have all gone.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, is this a serious Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Ms Lubezhi: Definitely not!

Mr Shakafuswa: They have run away.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Phiri, …

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I hope Hon. Dr Phiri is here.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: He has woken up.

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue as Hon. Dr Phiri is listening.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Yes, Mr Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Dr Phiri, probably because he is in charge of a ministry which is currently doing so well.

Hon. Opposition Members: That is right.

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, in my dying minutes, I want to state that there is nothing to write home about, especially on the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. When hon. Members of Parliament want to inquire on the reasons certain basic schools are not upgraded, there is an impasse and the hon. Minister in charge of the ministry gets angry. It is pity that hon. Ministers get angry, instead of answering questions when the reason we come here is to ask follow-up questions.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to contribute …

Mr Mucheleka: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Namulambe: … to this non-controversial Motion moved by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. From the outset, I want to commend the hon. Ministers for heeding the President’s directive that they present some ministerial statements in the House, which I think they have done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: From those ministerial statements, I picked some things that I will go and explain to the people in my constituency. I hope that when the hon. Ministers go around to inspect certain projects in my constituency; they should make sure that they locate me so that I can accompany them. In that way, they will be held accountable for the information they gave us on the Floor of this House, and if the situation will be different from what is happening on the ground, we can be able to address it together.

Mr Speaker, we heard about the progress on the health posts. Of course, I have not seen any construction that has started in Mpongwe, but I heard that the contractor is on the Copperbelt Province. I am hopeful that as I go on tour in my constituency, this contractor will have moved on site. I also hope that when the hon. Deputy Minister or the hon. Minister of Health comes to Mpongwe, we will be able to visit the seven sites together and see the progress.

Sir, we heard, for instance, that we expect a bumper harvest …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: … this year through the ministerial statement that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock issued. We are yet to go and verify this because as a farmer, I planted about 50 hectares of maize out of which, 20 hectares will be cut down and turned into stockfeed because with the erratic rains that we had, we may not be able to achieve anything. I may not be the only one; many other farmers may experience the same. So, I am certain that as we come in June, we may be able to have a proper statement of what to expect come harvest time, as regards whether we will record a surplus or not, as a result of the erratic rainfall pattern that we had in the country this rainy season.

Mr Speaker, I mentioned that the ministerial statement that was issued by the hon. Minister of Justice should be distributed in our pigeonholes, and to the word of the hon. Mr Speaker, these statements were distributed. I am certain that as we come back some time in June, more Bills will be brought to this House in relation to the Constitution-making process.

We heard that there could be certain provisions that are contained in the Draft Constitution that may not require the referendum. It is my sincere hope that interested parties, including myself and non-governmental organisations (NGOs), should make submissions to the hon. Minister of Justice as to which issues could be amended without necessarily being referred to the referendum.

Sir, it is for this reason that I would like to appeal to the NGOs that, ultimately, whatever mode is going to be taken towards the Constitution-making process, whether a new Constitution or partial amendments to the existing one, this House has the legislative power to turn them into laws. So, as such, the Executive must be mindful of the fact that not all the submissions they bring here may be supported. It will depend on what the people are going to tell us.

Mr Speaker, in certain cases, the Executive must take into account that it will be on the Floor of this House that even hon. Private Members are going to make amendments based on what our people in our constituencies are going to tell us.

Therefore, I would like to appeal to the NGOs which are only found in Lusaka, and are not found in Mpongwe, to accompany me when the time comes to tour my constituency, and hear from the people what they may want included in the Constitution so that together, we can come and help debate issues when the Bills regarding the Constitution-making process are brought for legislation.

 Mr Speaker, I have been in this Parliament long enough to have gained some experience. Much as the Executive have not brought many Bills as expected during this session, it was also our duty, as hon. Private Members, to move Private Members’ Bills for consideration.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, we must bear in mind that even as hon. Private Members, we have the duty to move certain Bills or even make amendments to the existing laws, especially those that we feel are not in tandem with what we want. Therefore, if we had moved some Bills, this session would have been very lively.

Sir, sometimes, facts may not look so attractive, but as I have stated before, I will say facts as I feel. What I am saying is what I feel is correct. Therefore, both the Executive and hon. Opposition Members were supposed to have moved Bills on the Floor of this House. Therefore, all of us are to blame for not bringing enough Bills before the House.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, as a local government administrator, my professional body, through me, as an hon. Member of this House, is trying to advance a Bill for the Institute of Local Government Administrators of Zambia so that it can be recognised as a professional body through an Act of Parliament. When the time is right, as member of that institution, I am going to move that Private Member’s Bill in this House. It is my hope that hon. Members will support it.

Mr Speaker, like what the hon. Member for Nalikwanda debated, allow me to mention that the issue of the depreciating Kwacha has affected all of us. When we are importing things from the outside, it is really hitting us. Therefore, it is important that we consult the people in our various constituencies, especially economists, to find out what can be done to strengthen our local currency. It is my hope that when we come to knock on the doors to the offices of our hon. Ministers and Colleagues in the Executive, they will regard all of us as equals.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, there are some people who are moving with 25 kg bags of information, which are not truthful. I did not want to use unparliamentary words. I will try to be a little moderate. What I am trying to say is that there are certain people who are not telling the truth about others but they, instead, move with 25 kg of those untruthful issues. As such, when we come to your offices and, maybe, some people had already brought in 25 kg bags of lies …

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: … or the things that are not truth, you may not accept to receive us. Therefore, I want to state that you must check the weight of those 25 kg bags.

Mr Speaker, I am ready to give the people who move with untruthful things more empty bags. If it means giving them 90 kg bags, I will do so to enable them to heap a lot of the untruthful things. Sometimes, it is these untruthful things that have led us to make wrong decisions.

Mr Speaker, it is important that when somebody comes with issues, which are not truthful, we verify and get the actual context or the actual issues. There have been a lot of untruthful issues that have been heaped on individuals which, in most cases, have led to wrong decisions. Sometimes, it is as a result of those untruthful things that certain things are not moving correctly. I, therefore, hope that this piece of advice is timely.

Mr Speaker, it is also important that hon. Ministers not have the monopoly of wisdom. Sometimes, it is important that people seek advice and consult. When you consult widely, you will be able to make very good decisions that will receive less criticism from the members of the public.

 Mr Speaker, having a listening ear will lead us to make very informed and precise decisions. Even on the question of the Bills that some hon. Members have talked about, we should be free to approach you, as hon. Ministers, and bring to your attention certain things that we feel should be changed. After all, you said that we must come to your offices to give you or seek more information because when some questions are asked on the Floor of the House, there is inadequate time. So, you would want us to come to your offices so that you listen properly. If anything, it is you who is going to receive the credit that such and such a person came, and this is what I was advised. There is nothing wrong with accepting constructive criticism because it builds. If we can be able to see the invisible, it is very possible to achieve the impossible.   
 
Mr Speaker, for this reason, all of us must be treated equally. Zambia is for all of us. We must strive hard to ensure that we alleviate the suffering of the masses or poor people. They must be able to appreciate why we are there as hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers. We must be able to go into those compounds and villages, and appreciate how the people feel or how they look at issues. There is nothing wrong with associating even with people that have not been to school because certain times, these people have natural wisdom given by God.

Mr Speaker, allow me to also mention that we have not dedicated this country to the Lord that much. Zambia is a Christian nation. So many bad things are happening in our country, but we are not inviting the Lord to be in our midst. We have distanced ourselves from God. How many of us are Christians. Some, of course, here are from other religions, but according to our Constitution, Zambia is a Christian nation. However, we are not upholding Christian values. Those in leadership must lead the country the way God would want it to be led. As such, they should offer themselves to Him. When there are problems, including erratic rains, it is important that at certain times, we conduct prayers …

Mr Mumba: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: … so that God can intervene. With prayer, nothing is impossible. We shall overcome all the obstacles and challenges that we may face as a nation. Zambia is not peaceful by coincidence. It is by the grace of God, but let us not live through that grace without effort.

Mr Speaker, I am certain that there are those that have appreciated the few things that I have spoken, and may God bless them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Motion on the Floor. I want to support the Motion which was presented by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.
    
  Sir, this Motion is non-controversial. I have heard the debates from our colleagues on your left. It is just meant to suspend the Standing Orders so that we complete the business on the Order Paper. We are going to adjourn so that we can go back to our constituencies, that is, those of us who have constituencies. So that we can explain to our people what the Government intends to do this year. There are projects it intends to do and, therefore, we should not pretend that it is not doing anything.

Mr Speaker, we are building schools, clinics and, of course, police stations. You are aware that we are building police stations in all the new districts. All those who were against the introduction of the new districts are benefiting as we speak, and have to appreciate what the Government is doing. However, they are here pretending as if nothing is happening. One of the new districts is Mitete.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, there is something I heard the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi say. I am happy he is here because other colleagues debated and ran away. They raised issues, even though some cases are not worth commenting on. However, they are supposed to be here to listen to the responses we are going to give. Hon. Mucheleka raised the issue of work permits. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi is free to go and visit his constituency and talk to his people.

Mr Speaker, those who were debating from the Opposition were just politicising issues because they did not bring out any facts at all. The United Party for National Development (UPND) applied for a permit to hold a public rally in Mtendere Compound. We gave them a permit, but they cancelled the meeting. They applied a second time and we gave them a permit to hold a rally in the same area. Again, they cancelled it. The third time we gave them a permit, their deputy secretary-general or spokesperson ...

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwila: I want to justify the fact that we are giving permits to all the people. Since President Edgar Chagwa Lungu came into power, we have not denied anyone a permit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, that is what is on the ground. We are going to our constituencies to …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is constantly misleading this House and the nation that we are required to be given work permits. He is talking about work permits, instead of police permits. As far as we are concerned, there is no law that requires anybody to get a police permit other than to inform or give notification to the police about a public gathering. Is the hon. Minister in order to do this?

I need your serious guidance, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Whatever was said was a slip of the tongue because in the end he made it clear that you are free to go to your constituency to meet your people.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is aware that we give work permits. That is why we talk about work permits most of the time. Anyway, I thank him for the correction.

Mr Speaker, we are going to our constituencies to thank our people because some of us have not gone back since the last Presidential By-election. Since 20th January, 2015, this is when we are going to thank them for voting for the Patriotic Front (PF).

Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia do not vote for the sake of doing it. All of us went into the field to convince our people on what we want to do for them. In the end, they decided that they wanted His Excellency President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. You will recall that when I was on the Back Bench, our colleagues across the Floor were saying that they would move to this side (the Government side). I told them that it will not happen.

Hon. PF Members: Where are they now?

Mr Mwila: They are now telling us that we will not retain power. Next year, 2016, there will be no voter apathy and you will see what we will do to them.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Sir, they will never come to this side of the House because the people of Zambia have confidence in the leadership of the PF Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, some people misled other political party presidents that they would deliver the Northern Province to them, which they failed.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Including Luapula.

Mr Mwila: They failed. …, including Luapula Province.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this House when he knows very well that the election campaigns they carried were very tribal, …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mucheleka: … by saying that, Mucheleka, Mutati and GBM betrayed the Bemba people by working with the Tongas. Are we all not Zambians?

Mr Livune: We are!

The Deputy Chairperson: What is your point of order?

Mr Mucheleka: Are we not talking about One Zambia, One Nation. Yes, in 2016, we shall deliver the Northern and Muchinga provinces.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Yes!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to echo the words of the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi that let us love one another, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … let us work together with our colleagues on the left and right side of the House.

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon. Members who have debated on this non-controversial Motion, and I also want to encourage the hon. Members that, as we go to our homes, we remember that this is Easter time. Let us draw nearer to God so that we may be renewed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Question put and agreed to.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
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BILL

REPORT STAGE

The Tax Appeals Tribunal (Amendment) Bill, 2015

Report adopted.

Third Reading, today.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read a third time and passed:

The Tax Appeals Tribunal (Amendment) Bill, 2015

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned accordingly at 1925 hours on Thursday, 27th March, 2015 sine die.

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