DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE NINTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 13th March, 2001

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE TO SCRUTINISE THE APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS OF THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION

Mr C. T. A. Banda (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee for the Fifth Session of the Eighth National Assembly to Scrutinise the Appointment of Members of the Electoral Commission, laid on the Table of the House on 8th March, 2001.

Mr Speaker: Is the motion seconded?

Mr Sikombe (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, I second the motion.

Mr C. T. A. Banda: The terms of reference of your Committee were to scrutinise the appointment of Mr Justice Sylvester Munachiingu Simachela and Reverend Mwape Chilekwa as members of the Electoral Commission pursuant to the provisions of Article of 76(2) of the Constitution of Zambia and Section 4(2) and (3) of the Electoral Commission Act No. 24 of 1996. Article 76(2) of the Constitution states, and I quote:

    ‘An Act of Parliament shall provide for the composition an operations of the Electoral Commission appointed by the President under this Article.’

Section 4(2) of the Electoral Commission Act No. 24 of 1996 states, and I quote:

    ‘The Commission shall consist of the following full-time members:

    (a)    A Chairperson; and

    (b)    Not more than four other members.’

And Section 2 of the same Electoral Commission Act states, and I quote:

    ‘The members shall be appointed by the President subject to ratification by the National Assembly.’

Mr Speaker, in their endeavour to ensure that the appointees did not have any adverse security, criminal, corrupt or, indeed, drug related traces against them before they could be considered for ratification by this august House, your Committee sought the expert advice of the following Government investigative wings:

1.    The office of the President (Special Division);

2.    The Anti-Corruption Commission;

3.    The Drug Enforcement Commission; and

4.    The Zambia Police Service.

Mr Speaker, the submissions of all these investigative organs of Government were that the appointees did not have any adverse security, criminal, corruption or drug related traces against them.

Mr Speaker, in order to determine the professional suitability of the appointees, your Committee sought the advice of the following:

1.    The Judicial Service Commission; and

2.    The United Church of Zambia.

The Judicial Service Commission and the United Church of Zambia highly recommended the suitability of the hon. Justice Simachela and Reverend Chilekwa, respectively, to serve on the Electoral Commission.

Your Committee further sought the input of a representative of the appointing authority. The hon. Minister without portfolio appeared before your Committee in this respect.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister Without Portfolio submitted that the appointees were persons who had held responsible positions in society and that their appointments were purely on merit. Your Committee heard that, in the last three years, the Chairman of the Electoral Commission, Judge Bobby Bwalya, had been the only person from the legal fraternity serving on the commission, which had been too taxing on him. The hon. Minister stated that it was, therefore, thought prudent by the appointing authority that an eminent person with the appropriate qualifications be appointed to serve on the Commission to strengthen the position of the Chairman. This was what prompted the appointment of the Hon. Justice Simachela.

The hon. Minister informed your Committee that the hon. Justice Simachela was a person of sober character and vast experience on the bench and that his appointment to serve on the Electoral Commission was an elevation rather than a demotion.

Mr Speaker, with regard to Reverend Mwape Chilekwa, the hon. Minister informed your Committee that he was appointed to serve on the Commission in response to calls from members of the civil society who had been concerned about the absence of a representative from that section of society.

Mr Speaker, your Committee were informed that the appointing authority had established that the appointees were mature persons who would exhibit impartial judgement in their duties on the Commission and, therefore, recommended that this House ratify their appointments.

Your Committee established that Judge Simachela was first appointed to the bench in 1983 as a magistrate and has been a High Court Judge since 1994. Judge Simachela assured your Committee that he welcomed his appointment and that it would not in any way inhibit his career in the Judiciary. He would go back to the bench at the end of his tenure of office at the Commission.

Mr Speaker, with regard to Reverend Mwape Chilekwa, your Committee established that he has been a minister in the United Church of Zambia for over twenty years and has since January, 2000, been Synod Minister of St. Marks United Church of Zambia Congregation in Chilenje, Lusaka. Reverend Chilekwa assured your Committee that the leadership of the United Church Zambia supported his appointment, as it would provide another avenue for him to serve God at national level. Reverend Chilekwa also indicated to your Committee that he appreciated that the Commission's work was different from that of the church but was convinced that he could still serve on the Commission in an impartial manner.

Mr Speaker, from both the written and oral submissions from the witnesses that appeared before them, and from the interviews with the appointees themselves, your Committee are convinced that the appointees have the necessary qualifications and experience to serve on the Electoral Commission.

Your Committee, therefore, recommend the ratification of the appointment of the Hon. Mr Justice Sylvester Munachiingu Simachela and Reverend Mwape Chilekwa as members of the Electoral Commission.

Finally, Mr Speaker, your Committee wish to put on record their appreciation of the invaluable services rendered to them by the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly. Above all, they wish to record their gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for appointing them to serve on this important Select Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Sikombe: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I rise to second the motion on the Floor which is to ratify the appointment of Mr Justice Simachela and Reverend Mwape Chilekwa as members of the Electoral Commission. 

Mr Speaker, I want to state from the outset that if we truly want to entrench democracy in this country with continuous exercise of registration of voters, we must fully support institutions such as the Electoral Commission. For a long time, the Commission has been inhibited by manpower constraints and I hope that these appointments we are ratifying today will make a positive difference in the work of the Commission.

Mr Speaker, this year, 2001, is an election year and heavy responsibilities of conducting these elections fall on the Electoral Commission, especially that the presidential, parliamentary and ward to council elections will take place the same day. I urge the Government to promptly release all the finances and logistics to the Commission to facilitate the preparations of elections.

Mr Speaker, another critical factor in the operations of the Electoral Commission is political interference. This Commission is a national institution and should not only be non-partisan but it should be seen to be non-partisan. When the nation is left to lose confidence in the Commission as a result of political interference, then it is inevitable that we as the people of Zambia shall have no faith in the elections and, indeed, in the outcome of the election results.

Mr Speaker, on these two gentlemen whose names we are ratifying today, I seek to declare interest because I have known the Justice Simachela myself when he worked in Isoka as a magistrate and I have also known Reverend Chilekwa as a friend when he taught on the Copperbelt. I have no doubt that these two gentlemen will execute their duties diligently. I support their names.

Mr Speaker, thank you, Sir.

Mr Chulumanda (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me the honour and privilege to deliver my maiden speech.

Mr Speaker, before I go any further, I would like to commend you for the fair manner and dignity with which you continue to conduct the business in this august house.

Mr Speaker, let me thank the President of my party, MMD, who is at the same time the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr. F. J. T. Chiluba and through him the National Executive Committee for adopting me as the official MMD candidate for the Nkana By-election following the expulsion of my predecessor, Mr Robby Kasuba, from MMD.

Dr. Pule: Hear, hear!

Mr Chulumanda: Mr Speaker, let me also thank the Copperbelt MMD Provincial Executive Committee, the Kitwe Executive Committee and above all, the Nkana Constituency Executive Committee, not forgetting the National Secretary, of course, ...

Laughter.

Mr Chulumanda: ... for short-listing me as one out of the many people who could retain the Nkana Constituency seat for MMD. 

Mr Speaker, the rare mandate the people of Nkana gave me last year was not as a result of my intelligence, wisdom or stature but because of my hard work and unreserved loyalty to the party and its leadership.

Mr Speaker, the Member of Chipangali, Hon. Lucas Phiri, will agree with me that the route to economic recovery is not an easy one and the MMD Government has tried very hard to put a number of things in the right way. We are determined to do our best for our people and our country.

Mr Speaker, the people of Nkana Constituency have realised that the best way to influence economic growth does not lie in criticism only but in their practical involvement in Entrepreneurship practical skills training in schools, colleges and universities in order to deal adequately with issues such as unemployment. Sir, MMD is determined to:

(a)    develop programmes for skills training targeted at out of school youths and other specific groups; and

(b)    increase the number of institutions of higher learning in order to educate the youths in whose hands the future of this country lies.

Mr Speaker, by giving me such an important office, the people of Nkana Constituency want to gain access to clean drinking water and hygienic toilets. I have in mind, particularly, the people of Amlew and Amcor compounds.

Mr Speaker, I commend the Government for successfully completing the privatisation of the mines. I take great pride in making this acknowledgment because the privatisation of Nkana Mine which is in my constituency has brought back economic life to my constituency, in particular, and Kitwe generally.

Mr Speaker, I would further like to commend the Government for allocating a substantial amount of K207 billion in this year’s Budget to clear off the former Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) suppliers who sacrificed so much to keep the mines alive up to the time they were sold off. On behalf of the suppliers, I would like to say thank you to the eloquent and hard working Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Dr Katele Kalumba, MP.

The suppliers who are by and large Zambian small businessmen and women deserve to be paid their outstanding arrears to avoid and minimise the hardship they are currently experiencing.

Achievements.

Some of the great achievements the MMD Government attained include the selling of council, Government, parastatal and ZCCM mining housing units to sitting tenants. The electrification of Buchi-Kamitondo is yet another positive development.

Mr L. L. Phiri: You are a tenant!

Mr Chulumanda: .Listen to the words of wisdom, Hon. Lucas Phiri.

Mr Speaker, I am a very worried person because a number of our nationals who benefited from Government’s good policy on housing have started selling these units very cheaply and in some cases to some foreigners.

Interruptions.

Mr Chulumanda: The MMD policy of housing empowerment was intended to benefit Zambians. This development, therefore, is not only regrettable but also disappointing, Sir. My suggestion to put an end to this trend, Sir, is for the Government to degazette part of the forestry land and give the land to ex-miners and retrenchees so that they can engage in farming and other profitable economic activities to make ends meet.

Mr Speaker, as we in the MMD play to win, I am optimistic that my people in Nkana Constituency are going to get there because we are always led by the Holy Spirit. We, the people of Nkana are saying, thank you to the giver of all things, the Almighty God for his love and kindness to the MMD and its leadership.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chulumanda: Mr Speaker, let me conclude my maiden speech by telling hon. Members who may wish to know where I gathered the courage and inspiration to come here.

Mr Sibetta: From the District Administrator.

Mr Chulumanda: I was greatly inspired by an hon. Member of this House, Mr Vernon Johnson Mwaanga, who is also Chief Whip and Chairman for Information and Publicity of the powerful MMD. He is my every inspiration, Sir.

Interruptions.

Mr Chulumanda: Mr Speaker, Sir, one person I will always remain indebted to for the rest of my life is no other than my wife who has been extremely supportive through and through.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chulumanda: My family’s contribution in my life can never be quantified.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chulumanda: Hon. Professor Nkandu Luo and your team from Mandevu Constituency, you helped me a lot. I will never forget you in my political life. My brother and constituency neighbour, Hon. Anthony Mwila’s contribution to my coming here cannot be underestimated.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chulumanda: As for my brother, Hon. Dr Yusuf Badat, I will always compare notes with you. 

Mr Speaker, I am finding it very interesting to work with your members of staff. They are very helpful, courteous and co-operative. By continuously learning from hon. Members of Parliament on both sides of this House, it is my hope and confidence that I will justify the trust and honour of the people of Nkana Constituency who sent me here and above all, that of the National Executive Committee of MMD who endorsed my candidature.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to debate the ratification of the two members who are being submitted to Parliament by the appointing authority in the name of the President.

Mr Speaker, this Commission is a very important national institution and this year, in particular, it has got a very important job to do and it looks like the Commission is already behind its programme. For new hon. Members like the one who has just given us his maiden speech (Mr Chulumanda), I would like to remind him that the constitutional functions of the Electoral Commission under Article 76 of the Constitution of Zambia are to supervise the registration of voters and to review voters’ register and the rolls. It has also a job to conduct the Presidential and Parliamentary elections. 

Lastly but not least, Sir, this important institution in the name of the Electoral Commission has a job to review the boundaries of the constituencies into which Zambia is divided for the purpose of election.

Already, we have, on the Floor of the House, an amendment to the Electoral Act to allow the Commission to commence registration of voters. This is the job the Commission should have started doing some two or three years ago and not now when we have only six months to go to the polls that the Commission is waking up from this deep slumber to talk about registering voters and bringing two members to be ratified.

This Commission has been moving on three members and yet the law of this country provides that other than the Chairman of the Commission, there shall be four members of the Commission. From 1996, this Commission has been moving on a skeleton staff at Commission level.

Now, we are coming out to appoint two members to supervise the elections and the elections, according to what the hon. Minister of Legal Affairs has intimated, have to start next month. Most parts of this country, next month, will still be flooded. Half of my constituency, two thirds of your former constituency, Mr Speaker, will still be flooded. Many constituencies will still be flooded. To have a Commission to embark on a very important task like this one, which is a constitutional function when the country is flooded, means they will not do a good job. We know that in the previous registration, voters have not been adequately registered and, consequently, we have been returning to this House minority governments. When you have an electoral roll and only 41 per cent of those on the voters’ roll turn up to vote for a Government, that is a minority Government. 

Mr Speaker, it is very important that funds must be given to this Commission as quickly as possible. We already have a backlog of teachers and other civil servants who have not been paid for electoral jobs in the Local Government Elections and in these various by-elections. Therefore, the funds already earmarked are not adequate. The K64 million earmarked in the Budget Speech will not be adequate for this job. Besides, Mr Speaker, we need the Commission to be broad based. It is not broad based at the moment. Most of these Commissioners come from the north where the hon. Minister of Defence comes from.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Luena must always remember that this is a National Assembly and not a political platform. May he be guided to refer and adhere in his debate to the motion. He cannot prove the allegations he is about to make.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Sibetta: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for guiding me. These are very serious issues.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: The hon. Minister of Defence should not be laughing when I am stating these issues. They are very serious. Therefore, I welcome the appointment of the Hon. Mr Justice Simachela because he will be the only person on this Commission who will represent the other unrepresented provinces on this Commission.

Laughter. {mospagebreak}

Mr Sibetta: It is true.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair keeps hoping that the hon. Member for Luena, some day, will debate so constructively as not to attract the intervention of the Chair, as he keeps doing. Once more, members of any Commission are not selected on sectional grounds but on the basis of information that you see mentioned in the report. May the hon. Member for Luena, for a change, impress the Chair, if he can do so.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, for a change, I will try to impress you.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: This Commission, Mr Speaker, in supervising the electoral process, especially the process for Presidential Elections, it has to be seen to be fair. The Statutory Instrument No. 179 of 6th November, 1996, the duty is being put on this Commission to ensure that every person shall have the right to express his political opinions. My own brother and namesake was not allowed to file his nomination papers in a political process. 

Interjection.

Mr Sibetta: I am looking at the Chair. Therefore, the Electoral Commission should not keep quiet when these violations of the electoral process ...

Mr Sata: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sata: Mr Speaker, I am not very sure whether the Electoral Commission per se and the report here include elections of political parties that they should be debated here. Sir, is he in order to bring in his brothers who failed to file nominations at an MMD Party Conference in this debate?

Mr Speaker: The Chair is indebted to the point of order which has been raised by the hon. Minister Without Portfolio. The Electoral Commission is not responsible for conducting or even assisting in the conducting of political party elections. The hon. Member for Luena is aware that political parties have their own electoral commissioners. So, he is not in order.

May he resume his debate and address the motion that is before the House.

Mr Patel: Impress the Speaker.

Mr Sibetta: I am trying to impress the Chair.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: In winding up my debate, I still want to emphasise that the law of this country allows citizens to participate in elections, be they for a club, a political party or be they elections to this Assembly. When elections are being called at night by the commissioners, this law does not approve elections at night. We have a stipulated time when polls should open and close.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: Therefore, I am stating the law. You should listen to me and I am trying to impress the Chair.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: These are very important issues. He was not allowed to canvass freely among many of his people and the law of the land allows people to canvass freely.

I am not talking about the laws of your party. I am talking about the laws of this land. This is the electoral process over which this national institution and the courts superintend. 

Now, if you begin to conduct elections at night and you think that we will leave you alone, we will not leave you alone.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: We will attack you.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: I thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

Mr Shimonde (Mwembeshi): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this motion.

Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the Government for having brought names of two nominees to be ratified by this august House to serve on the Electoral Commission which is very important.

I must emphasise here, Mr Speaker, that the Electoral Commission should make sure that all those who register as voters are Zambians, and with the coming of continuous registration, they should also monitor registration of voters so that we do not get a situation where some people will take advantage and jump on the band wagon.

Mr Speaker, the other point I would like to raise is about the monitoring of elections. We have too many election monitors. Some of them confuse our voters, especially in the villages where most of our voters are illiterate. Instead of the monitors being impartial, they tell our voters who they should vote for. That, Mr Speaker, misleads our people.

Mr Sibetta: Hear, hear!

Mr Shimonde: They come in the name of election monitors but what they tell our voters is different. So, we would like the Electoral Commission to make sure that these people be impartial and not behave as election agents. 

Mr Speaker, the other problem we face during elections is transport. The Government should adequately provide transport. Some of the polling stations receive the boxes late. This is cumbersome. 

Mr Speaker, by law, we should close polling stations at 1700 hours. Now, sometimes, there are delays in delivering these boxes. I would, therefore, like the commission to look into the nitty-gritty of the problem of accessing some areas where we have no roads. If possible, I would also suggest that the Government should provide transparent boxes so that when you drop your vote, you will know that you are the first one to vote. This will remove the suspicion of rigging.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism (Mr Mulando): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor. I rise to support the motion.

Mr Speaker, I know the two honourable gentlemen who have been proposed to sit on the Electoral Commission. I have known Reverend Chilekwa as a reverend of the United Church of Zambia in Ndola. I actually met him at some of the church gatherings. He has contributed immensely in various capacities. I do further, recall that he sat on the Mwanakatwe Constitutional Review Commission. So, he is a person who will be able to bring honour to the Electoral Commission.

Further, Hon. Judge Simachela will also bring honour to the Electoral Commission and being a judge, I am sure that our colleagues in the political playing field will have their fears settled.

Sir, allow me to comment on the request that has been made by various political parties to allow representatives of political parties to sit on the Commission. If we allowed such a situation, Mr Speaker, there would be chaos in the electoral process in this country. As you know, politics is about arguments. Like we say in the Bemba language, politics fikansa fya chalo. Meaning that you have to argue ...

Mr Sibetta: You are not Bemba.

Mr Mulando: ... in order to have your opinion taken.

Having said this, it is important that we leave the Electoral Commission to be run by people who can bring respect to the electoral process in the country. I do believe, Sir, that these two gentlemen who have been proposed will bring honour and respect to the electoral process of this country so that we have free and fair elections in this country.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you very much.

Mr Speaker: The Chair is looking for three hon. Members who will bring up new points. Any new points? No new points from Kapoche.

Mr Patel (Lusaka-Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to note that the hon. Minister Without Portfolio has indicated that he wants to debate. I would, therefore, like to hear from him as to what the position would be as we are publicly aware that there is currently an on-going inter-party dialogue with regard to the electoral process and other matters. I am aware, Sir, that the dialogue has not been concluded. At the conclusion of the meeting, there may be need to make amendments to the electoral process. So, when would that happen?

Mr Speaker, secondly, an electoral process does not begin necessarily on the date that the President announces the date of elections. As they say, I think in some democracies, the election begins on the day you are elected ...

Mr Sibetta: Correct!

Mr Patel: ... and the process begins there.

Therefore, in a country like ours, Mr Speaker, where we have a limited number of media institutions doing national coverage, in this case, the State-owned media, it is important that they balance the views accurately. 

The Statutory Instrument 179 of 1996 which governs the Electoral Act clearly specifies the role of the media, be it public or private. For instance, it says under Section 2, and I quote

    ‘All media shall report election news in an accurate manner and shall not make an abusive editorial comment or encourage racism, religious intolerance or hatred.’

It is obvious, Mr Speaker, that when we read some of the editorials, they border very closely, on matters dealing with the politics of the country or individuals outside the ruling party. I would, therefore, like to encourage them to ensure that public media remain unbiased. 

I get quite amused, Mr Speaker, when hon. Members of Parliament or any other politician in this country speak, sometimes, against the Government position or policy. If you are in the minority, you are very quickly labeled as a foreigner. I found it very amusing because I served with honour and dignity in the MMD Government, Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the Front-Bench and the Middle-Bench. I am also a very proud hon. Member knowing that my political birth was in MMD. I have a proud record for that. 

So, I get quite amazed that some of my colleagues in the MMD today wish to hire some rented crowd or goons and sing about the fact that I am now a foreigner. I feel very ashamed about these things.

Thank you, Sir.

The Minister Without Portfolio (Mr Sata): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Sampa: Tell the foreigners!

Mr Sata: ... the Electoral Commission in Zambia, I think, is second to none in its performance and impartiality. They have a clear sense of mind, clear sense of destiny and they have withstood the temptations from all of us. It is true, as some hon. Members have said, that this Commission has been operating on a skeleton or a shoe string budget. It is not deliberate. What is very difficult, Sir, is to find people who will maintain that impartiality and that clear thought of mind. If this Commission had to succumb to some pressure and put on this Commission people like the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, it would be very difficult to maintain impartiality.

Mr Speaker, what worry me, in this country, are people trying to hide in a very small pit which cannot cover even a bald head when we are unable to understand or to expand our thinking. 

Sir, it will be unfortunate if people could rise and say, ‘We have a Mr Mungole in charge of the Drug Enforcement Commission.' That man was appointed on merit and that is why he heads that department It will be sad to say, ‘Yes, you have Chief Justice Ngulube.' Only people who do not think properly can say that. If we are going to hide in compartments of narrowness, this country cannot develop. What this Government looks for is merit.

I do not agree with my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central who is articulate, intelligent and highly educated. This language which we have learnt, including himself, the so-called constitutional language, will always be misunderstood. If somebody said that you had a foreign idea, you would think they were saying you were a foreigner. No, you just have a foreign idea.

Laughter.

Mr Sata: When you disagree with your friend - Hon. Sibetta and I learnt this English, so, to translate from Bemba or Lozi into English, you will end up saying ‘foreigner’ and forget ‘idea’ at the end. Therefore, people should not be offended. We are not talking about human beings or your origin, but it is the ‘foreign idea’ which you are trying to impose on colleagues who have local ideas. That is all we mean.

My dear brother, who uses the same road as I do, talked about political interference. I was waiting for him to expand where this political interference starts and ends. Political interference is part of life because if Hon. Sibetta is not exerting political interference, we will find it very plain sailing. But he interferes by speaking things which are politically unattainable. That is political interference.

Laughter.

Mr Sata: So, when we talk of political interference, it is not necessarily from the MMD. I totally agree with Hon. Sikombe, who said that if the Opposition and Independents can stop political interference to try and impose themselves on the Electoral Commission, the latter will function very well.

Mr Patel: Mwalimu Sata!

Mr Sata:  I totally agree with Hon. Shimonde who brought up the issue of monitors. It is not only the MMD which exhibits fake monitors. When those are political activists, that is political interference which must be stopped henceforth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sata: Monitors are supposed to be genuine and not political activists from Luena. You cannot get political activists from Luena, take them to the Electoral Commission and give them badges for elections monitors when they do not even know the definition of monitoring. They will not be monitoring. Instead, they will be interfering. That is political interference. It must come to an end. 

This question of Independents who are not even a political party - all Independents in the country have one symbol. A symbol is supposed to go to a political party. How can all Independents have a lady with a kama baby behind? That is political interference. You are confusing voters.

Laughter.

Mr Sata: Sir, I would like to remind my dear brother and mentor, and my former bank manager, Hon. Sibetta, that the English which I learnt says that you can take a horse, donkey, cow, chicken, goat and pig to the river but you cannot force it to eat or drink. In Zambia we do not have a law to compel people to go and vote or register. That is why in this language which we learnt, there is a word ‘apathy’. For example, if people hear that Hon. Sibetta is standing, they would not want to vote because it would be a wasted vote.

Laughter.

Mr Sata: Firstly, they wasted their vote when they voted for him. So, why should they go and vote again? But once they have somebody else, they will all go and vote. So, we would like all of us here ...

Mr Sibetta: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling. Is the hon. Minister Without Portfolio in order to say that when people of Luena hear it is me standing, they will not vote because it is a waste of their time and ballot, when I have served them so well and gallantly for a long time? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Luena has adequately debated his point of order. Will the hon. Minister Without Portfolio, please, continue.

Mr Sata: On the question of public or private media or whatever it is we are talking about, Hon. Patel was once Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services and he defended it internationally and locally. Each newspaper has its editorial policy. The editorial policy comes from the owners of that paper. He who pays the piper plays the tune. We do not control the editorial content of The Post newspaper, neither do we control the editorial content of the Monitor or the National Mirror. We do not complain because that is the editorial policy of those particular newspapers. We cannot say the paper is biased because if all the papers are going to be praising Independents or the Opposition, it would become monotonous and people will stop reading newspapers.

So, there must be a variety, a member of the Opposition is hammered today and the next time a member of the Government Bench is also hammered. 

Interruptions.

Mr Sata: That is what variety is all about . I would like to remind ourselves that some people are news makers and others are news killers. When some people are on the front page, the paper does not sell and but when others are, the paper sells like hot cakes. Why should they use people who are not going to make news when they know that their papers would not sell? 

Finally, Sir, on the issue of the inter-party talks, we will make laws with or without inter-party talks. Mr Speaker, the inter-party talks are consultative. On the registration of voters, I would like to say that the Electoral Commission is not static. Laws change with circumstances but it is not the inter-party meeting which will tie the Government and say you are not going to continue governing until we have inter-party talks. No ways. We have the mandate to govern and to rule with impunity.

Interruptions.

Mr Sata: But the point is that we have a mandate and we have the hon. Minister of Legal Affairs to advise us and not those hon. lawyers there. In fact, there is only one lawyer there in the Opposition.

Mr Speaker, dialogue will continue but those conditions ...

Mr Sibetta: Governing with impunity? Just apologise.

Mr Sata: Excuse me. You are so worried about language which you only learned. You learned English but where you come from, you do not speak English. We just learn it because it is constitutional and so do not get worked up with a foreign language. If the debate was in Bemba or Lozi, I would probably have expressed myself much better.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: Just apologise.

Mr Sata: Apologise for what? Apologise for learning English? 

So, Sir, the inter-party talks will continue and will not stop or slow down this Government from governing. The inter-party dialogue is consultative and I have said several times that this is not a coalition government and the members of the inter-party talks should not think that they are partners in a coalition Government. No. We listen to political parties, NGOs, churches and ordinary people and from them we gather the information from which we manufacture or make just laws for the people of Zambia and for the benefit of people like Hon. Sibetta and Hon. Dipak Patel.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. T. A. Banda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me, again, this time to wind up the debate. I have, besides my seconder, whom I must thank for being a good sport, three other Members of Parliament and, of course, I will not forget the maiden speech which came from the hon. Member for Nkana (Mr Chulumanda). There were also two hon. Ministers who spoke in support of the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful to all of them for their contributions to the debate. I am also grateful to all those who showed interest and wanted to speak on this debate and I only appeal to them to give us full approval of this report.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

(THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES in the Chair)

THE ELECTORAL (Amendment) BILL, 2001

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

HOUSE RESUMED

(MR SPEAKER in the Chair)

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 2001.

Third Reading on Wednesday, 14th March, 2001.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEES in the Chair]

VOTE 95/01 - (Eastern Province - Headquarters - K9,963,78,858)

(Consideration resumed)

The Deputy Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Mumba): Mr Chairman, I wish to thank you for giving me time to join my hon. Colleagues who have contributed to the on-going debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairman, allow me to seize this opportunity to thank the President of the Republic of Zambia for giving me an opportunity to serve the Government and the people of Eastern Province through my appointment as Deputy Minister for that province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mumba: Mr Chairman, my conscience would be greatly offended if I failed to pay tribute to my predecessor, Hon. Solomon Jason Mbuzi, MP, who provided excellent service to our people during his tour of duty.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Mumba: His was an inspiring leadership for which the people of Eastern Province will long remember him.

Mr Chairman, I have pledged to serve the Government and the President, loyally and faithfully, remembering always the old adage that you do not insult the crocodile while your legs are still in water.

Laughter.

Mr Mumba: Mr Chairman, the people of Eastern Province continue to be grateful to the Republican President, Dr. F. J. T. Chiluba and the MMD Government for their continued effort to maintain peace, not only in the province but also in Zambia as a whole.

The people of Eastern Province are particularly appreciative of the fact that the peace that prevails in Zambia is due to the MMD Government's adherence to democratic ideals and virtues. For our province, Mr Chairman, this good governance record has greatly contributed to our enjoying peaceful relations with the neighbouring districts in Mozambique and Malawi.

Mr Chairman, the Provincial Administration would like to commend the Government on the consistency with which it has released finances for Recurrent Departmental Charges for the rest of the year. Although the amounts remained below the budgeted levels, the consistency made it possible for most departments to plan and effectively phase their activity execution. It is, therefore, our sincere hope, Mr Chairman, that this year’s release will be as budgeted in order to facilitate the realisation of the planned goals.

Mr Chairman, notwithstanding the budgetary constraints that the Government is facing, I would like to resound my plea on the release of capital expenditure. Apart from dilapidation of some Government structures due to the general wear and tear, there is need, in my province, to construct a common user office block in Nyimba to house the District Administration, who are currently squatting in a single roomed office. We would, therefore, like to commend the Government on the release of the initial instalments for the said works under the public investment programme.

As you are aware, Mr Chairman, we are charged with the responsibility of administering a province whose vastness cannot be over-emphasised, coupled with badly damaged district roads. The current fleet of vehicles for most departments is proving increasingly costly to maintain due to their state disrepair. They are required to be immediately replaced. However, we remain grateful to the Government for providing the District Administration with some reliable vehicles.

Mr Chairman, with regard to local governance and co-ordination, the establishment of the Office of the District Administrator has managed to ease the co-ordination of development at the district level. With the assistance of co-operating partners such as the United Nations Capital Development Fund, under the District Development Project, sensitisation workshops have been held to streamline the operations of development co-ordinating structures at both district and sub-district levels. Mr Chairman, with the recent launching of the Zambia Social Investment Fund (ZAMSIF), it is our hope that these efforts will be further enhanced to foster district development.

Mr Chairman, it is but a proven fact in the Eastern Province that councils can perform better than they are currently perceived. What has been lacking is to carry out a management audit and consequently effect a comprehensive restructuring exercise aimed at having a manageable, effective and efficient Council Management Team. It is only through such efforts, Mr Chairman, that we can start looking forward to the much talked about district development. In this regard, we believe that the starting point should be the development of District Strategic Development Plans to capture the intentions and aspirations of each district and in a precise and concise format.

Mr Chairman, as regards agriculture, in the 1999/2000 season, maize production in the province grew from 5,284,610 X 50kg bags to 7,918,900 X 50kg bags, representing an increase of 49 per cent. The planted area for maize increased from 232,577 hectares in the previous season to 283,00 hectares this current season.

Rice production has continued to be on the increase especially in Chama District although the reported floods drastically affected the yields. Groundnut yields have also increased from 244,530 X 80 kg bags to 345,769 X 80 kg bags. With regard to cotton, there has been a reduction  from 36,281,510 kgs to 30,367,475 kgs.

Mr Chairman, the production figures are quite impressive and one would want to imagine that this trend will strengthen the household food security. The provincial administration is tirelessly working towards sensitising the farmers to avoid the tendency of desperately selling all their produce, especially, during the peak marketing season and ensuring that they have enough food reserves for their consumption. Most importantly, we have emphasised the fact that it is an obligation to honour any loan they get to ensure sustainability of the loan facility.

Mr Chairman, the 2000/2001 rainfall has been recorded as being above average in most parts of the province. 

The prolonged periods of the rainfall have been but a great threat to the yields of almost all the food crops in the province. Because of this, coupled with the insufficient and late delivery of inputs, especially inorganic fertilisers, the province projects a drastic drop in the crop yield compared  to the last farming season. In some areas, the situation may call for relief food.

Due to the heavy rains, areas susceptible to flooding in Chama and Mambwe have already registered concerns on the rising water levels and washing away of food crops and some houses.

Agroforestry

The Zambia International Centre for Research in Agroforestry (ICRAF) project has been working in the Eastern province for the past eleven years since its inception in 1989. Its main objectives are to:

(i)    Increase food security among small holder farmers;

(ii)    Increase nutritional security;

(ii)    Protect the environment; and

(iv)    Contribute towards poverty alleviation through introduction of agroforestry technologies on small holder farmers.

The project has encouraged the use of improved fallows with sesbania sesban, teprosia, gliricidia and pigeonpeas (Nyamundolo). This has been achieved through the efforts of ICRAF and its strategic partners such as the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries. For the period under review, the number of farmers involved in agroforestry activities has increased by 374 per cent; bringing the number to 11,000 farmers. The research results indicate that improved fallows have increased maize yields to 3.5 tonnes per hectare, compared to 1.0 ton per hectare when maize is grown without fertilisers.

Mr Chairman, following the difficulties faced in accessing inorganic fertilisers by the small scale farmers, and the adverse environmental effects that the said chemical fertilisers have, it is the wish of the province that this agroforestry technology be financed and supported to cover the entire province and the country.

Farmer Group Support

Mr Chairman, the Zambian Agriculture Marketing Processing and Infrastructure Project (ZAMPIP) of the Agriculture Sector Investment Programme (ASIP) under the Rural Credit Facility (RCF) has also made remarkable strides in reducing poverty levels for the people in the Eastern Province. A total of 371 households (50 per cent women, 40 per cent men and 10 per cent youths) have received seasonal loans amounting to K221,422,700.00 of the equivalent of US$82,000. The seasonal loans were used to purchase fertiliser and seed of different crops. For the 2000/2001 farming season, the project has earmarked K6 billion for disbursement as mid-term loans for crops only. With proper management of these efforts and commitment on the part of the farmer groups, productions in the agricultural sector in the Eastern Province is certain to grow.

Land Management

Mr Chairman, the monumentation of the 200 kilometres of the International Boundary between Zambia and Malawi has been successfully completed save for the signing of the documents. To this effect, we would like to congratulate the relevant authorities/institutions in both Zambia and Malawi on their unflinching resolve to undertake this monumentation exercise. We are also grateful to the Government for its commitment to the exercise. Sir, the exercise provided for the participation, consultation and collaboration by not only the authorities from the two but also from those who are along the borderline and, consequently, affected by the physical demarcation.

This process, Mr Chairman, much as it ultimately produced a well-defined borderline, also provides a stepping stone for resolving most of our international border disputes. It is against this background that we would like to appeal for the financing of the completion of the survey of the entire borderline between Zambia and Malawi from what has been done so far.

Regional Development

Mr Chairman, the province participated at the official launch of the Zambia-Malawi-Mozambique Growth Triangle (ZMMGT) which was held from the 15th to 17th November, 2000 in Lilongwe, Malawi. The initiative, Sir, provides an opportunity for enhanced co-operation and economic development. We are, once again, grateful to the Government for signing the letter of intent in respect of the ZMMGT initiative.

Mr Chairman, the province feels duty bound as a signatory to the letter of intent for the envisaged co-operation, to ensure that requisite infrastructure is made available to avoid any hindrances. It is now almost imperative that we rehabilitate fully the road link (the Great East Road T4) and make efforts to complete the long standing Chipata-Mchinji Railway in anticipation of growth in trade in the triangular area.

Mr Chairman, the Eastern Province being the direct beneficiary to this Regional Development Initiative, we would wish to ask that the ZMMGT Secretariat to be located in Chipata. This would reduce on bureaucracies and more specifically, it would help to streamline the channeling of the development concerns. Further, Mr Chairman, the location of the Secretariat in the province would ensure that the targeting of the accruing benefits for all the three countries is well focused because Chipata is centrally located and, therefore, ideal for easy access by all actors and stakeholders.

Transport and Communication

Mr Chairman, as I stated earlier on, the rains this year have been quite destructive. As you well know, most of our roads in the Eastern Province are earth roads. With the high intensity of rains experienced so far, the roads will require rehabilitation.

Requiring immediate action, however, are some bridges, which have been washed away due to heavy rains. These are:

(i)    The blocked and eroded Mwami Causeway on D406 Road;

(ii)    Collapsed and eroded Lundazi Bridge on M12 Road;

(iii)    Four eroded culverts on M12 Road;

(iv)    Two lines eroded culverts on D104 Road; and

(v)    Collapsed culverts on the D127 Road.

Conclusion

Mr Chairman, the commissioning of the COMESA Free Trade Area, and the launching of the Zambia-Malawi-Mozambique Growth Triangle, will definitely bring about growth in trade.

Sir, as hon. Members of the House are well aware, the main link to the province is by road. It is for this reason that we feel excited about the recent pronouncements on the slurry sealing of the Luangwa Bridge to Mwami Border Road (T4 Road). When achieved, this will go a long way in complementing our efforts to boost trade in the province and, subsequently, economic growth. We are, therefore, thankful to the Government for having found resources for the emergency holding works on the Luangwa Bridge to Nyimba stretch.

The stalled Chipata - Mchinji Railway Project is also one issue the province continues to lament about. This project, in our view, requires to be actively pursued especially in the light of the unfolding and exciting initiatives in regional trade.

Mr Chairman, I beg to move that the House favourably considers the Vote for Eastern Province which is currently on the Floor.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Western Province (Mr Imikendu): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording me this opportunity to debate on this Vote.

In the first place, Mr Chairman, I would like to thank the President for appointing me to this portfolio which I know is not an easy task. Let me also thank the people of Western Province for the support that they have given me since I was appointed to this portfolio.

Mr Chairman, the role of my office and that of my Permanent Secretary is to ensure the effective and efficient administration of all Government and quasi-Government institutions in the province. In addition, we are responsible for developmental planning, monitoring of programmes, implementation as well as general co-ordination of all activities of all Government institutions in the province. This is to ensure that the impact of MMD's developmental policies are felt positively at all levels of our society in an effort to reduce the poverty level of our people which is estimated at 89 per cent. Mr Chairman, Western Province is reported to be the poorest province in this country with the above level being the highest.

Mr Chairman, being the poorest province, people there expect, from the Government, preferential treatment, especially in the allocation of developmental resources in order to uplift it from the serious poverty level mentioned earlier. In addition to the people's preferential treatment expectations on resource allocations, the people also expect preferential treatment by Budget Office on the release of approved Estimates annually. Unfortunately, despite these genuine expectations, the province is treated the same as or less than others with less poverty levels. Perhaps, because of variations in the number of districts or population figures, the poverty level criterion is normally ignored, it seems.

Mr Chairman, to justify the people of Western Province's concerns, I will give this year's budget allocation and last year's funding release to my province as examples. According to the records in my office, out of a total of about K5.5 billion approved Estimates which include a supplementary provision of about K1.2 billion, only K4.2 billion was released by the Treasury leaving an unreleased amount of K1.3 billion which could have gone a long way in the poverty reduction in the province through implementation of development projects. In fact, out of the unreleased amounts, about K50.6 million was meant for capital projects. 

In as far as this year's budget is concerned, my province ranks fifth highest funded. However, given the unique terrain in my province, I sincerely hope that 100 per cent of the Estimates for my province will be released by the Budget Office once approved by Parliament and that the poverty levels criterion will be taken into account during next year's budget preparations.

Furthermore, I hope that my province will also be considered for zero rates status in order to attract more local and foreign investors to help in the improvement of the economic and social status of the people in the province which is endowed with abundant untapped resources and yet ranked the poorest in the country.

Mr Chairman, the other topical issue in the province concerns the refugees. Western Province currently hosts about 31,000 refugees in established refugee institutions. The majority of these refugees are at Mayukwayukwa in Kaoma and Nangweshi in Shangombo District. We also have an estimated larger number of spontaneous refugees in the villages of our province. It is very easy to choose friends and not neighbours. Consequently, the MMD's policy of good neighbourliness and non- interference in the affairs of other countries should be fully supported by all Zambians and should not be unjustifiably condemned or criticised directly or indirectly at all, especially in this august House.

Mr Chairman, the coming to Zambia by our brothers and sisters from some of our neighbouring countries is not of their own choice. They are fleeing from the civil wars and political instabilities that have endangered their lives. It is, therefore, right and proper that we receive them with open and not folded hands in accordance with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees and international rules and regulations which, of course, should be strictly reinforced and adhered to.

Furthermore, the influx of the refugees in our country is a very timely reminder to all Zambians not to disturb the peace and stability that MMD has ably enhanced and maintained ever since it came into power. I, therefore, wish to join our President in thanking the security forces at national, provincial and district levels for a job well done of maintaining peaceful environment within our borders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imikendu: Mr Chairman, allow me to turn briefly to the road infrastructural development. Good roads infrastructure is one of the major catalysts of any development. It is because of this that I greatly appreciate my Government's decision to commence major works this year on the Sesheke/Livingstone Road, Katima Mulilo Bridge, Mongu/Kalabo Road and Mongu/Lusaka Road. However, there is an urgent need to attend to Mongu/Senanga Road, Senanga/Sesheke Road, Katunda/Lukulu Road, Kaoma/Kasempa Road and Luampa/Mulobezi Road. These roads are economic arteries of development in the areas concerned. I have taken up these issues with the relevant authorities and I am merely referring to them for the hon. Members to know our people's major concern.

Mr Imikendu: Cattle diseases outbreak and the consequent cattle movement ban is another area of major concern in the province. This is because the majority of the people in the province depend on cattle for their economic and social survival. The major areas of concern are that the Government’s policy on the eradication of the two major cattle diseases - Anthrax and Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia(CBPP) - is proving difficult to implement in the province. For example, CBPP infected animals are supposed to be quarantined and slaughtered. Farmers are supposed to be compensated to avoid the disease from spreading if they trekked to abattoirs. Compensation is currently limited or non-existent in some cases.

Consequently, Sir, bigger animals which are infected are currently allowed to trek long distances to abattoirs; thus risking the spread of the disease along the passage areas. The young infected animals that are not ready for abattoir sells are earmarked for slaughter without compensation because of inadequate funds for compensation.

Mr Chairman, the question the people are asking is why ban un-infected animals from going to outside markets on the line of rail on trucks and allow diseased animals to travel on foot to local abattoirs? 

As far as Anthrax is concerned, Sir, it attacks both animals and human beings and yet all vaccinations are done at the farmer’s cost. Even during the serious out-break periods like last year when Anthrax killed 233 reported cattle and attacked 107 reported human beings with 28 reported human deaths. 

The disease is as deadly as cholera ...

Hon. Members: Cholera!

Mr Imikendu: ... the way you like it, yes, to human beings. Therefore, one expects free vaccinations during out-break periods. The policy of cost recovery or sharing should only apply during normal periods. The total number of cattle at risk is about 70,000 in Kaoma, Lukulu, Mongu, Kalabo and Senanga districts only.

Mr Chairman, Western Province is very rich in forestry products. In fact, we raised a total revenue of about K557 million last year. The figure could have been much higher had we intensified our fight against forestry offenders.

The House may be quite interested to know that we only arrested thirty-five forestry offenders who were fined over six million kwacha last year. The Department of Forestry in my province needs more logistical support in terms of increased number of forestry guard staff, transport and funding to enable them carry out their duties much more effectively.

Mr Chairman, allow me also to inform this House that there will be severe famine in my province this year ...

Hon. Members: It is everywhere

Mr Imikendu: ... this is because of floods which have affected the Barotse Plains earlier than expected. Crops are already submerged in water before maturing.

Mr Chairman, there is also ...

The Deputy Chairman: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Imikendu: Mr Chairman, ...

Mr Matutu: Cholera!.

Mr Namakando: Continue, my brother.

Mr Imikendu: .. Aah! bakabichi.

May I also take this opportunity to thank our co-operating partners for the positive and very commendable role they are playing in the development of Western Province through RIF, ZAMSIF, JICA, SNV, BESSIP and WEPE projects, to mention but a few.

Finally, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank the MMD leadership, Government as well as quasi-Government workers for the able manner in which they have run the affairs of this country for the past ten years. I, therefore, wish to appeal to the whole nation to give the MMD Government yet another mandate ....

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imikendu: ...during the forth-coming general elections, to enable it accomplish its developmental mission for the full benefit of all the citizens in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imikendu: I once more thank you, Sir, for affording me this opportunity to share my views with my hon. Colleagues.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sibetta: Poverty level is the highest.

The Vice-President (Lieutenant-General Tembo): Mr Chairman, I register my gratitude for allowing me the opportunity to make a few remarks regarding this year's, 2001, Estimates of Expenditure for all provinces. I further take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members of the House for their constructive contributions to debate on provincial votes. I am confident, Sir, that the advice from the hon. Members of Parliament regarding various issues raised will be addressed in one way or another by our provincial administrations.

Mr Chairman, the Government has continued to advocate for an active and effective role of local communities in the social, economic and political development of our country.

To this effect, Sir, the Government will continue to pursue a decentralised system of governance that is characterised by an open, predictable and transparent policy making and implementation process that is coupled with effective community participation, while maintaining sufficient linkages between the centre and the periphery.

The above will be attained by the continued provision of guidance and clear constitutional structures with functions to be performed at each level of administration.

As hon. Members may be aware, the Government has completed appointment of District Administrators (D.As) in all the seventy-two (72) districts in the country.

This is one of the many efforts that we are putting in place to ensure that the district becomes the focus for development and service delivery to the rural people.

With the presence of these Central Government representatives at the district, efforts of the various provincial administrations will be complemented as they continue to provide the needed arena for the implementation and monitoring of various sector policies and strategies on behalf of line ministries and the Central Government as a whole, in order to ensure quality service delivery to our rural communities.

In order to make the district administrators more effective in their general task of providing leadership at the district, the Government has provided them with the necessary orientation through an induction workshop on the existing Government regulations, procedures and other guidelines on the operations of the Government machinery and the Civil Service in particular.

In addition, the Government, through Cabinet Office, in the near future, will arrange and hold policy awareness workshops between the district administrators’ office and the local authorities in order to create a common understanding of development issues between these two important institutions. This will help them to collectively make a positive contribution towards sustainable development of our rural areas.

I am worried, Mr Chairman, that there were some complaints about the activities of some District Administrators. An example was cited of our district administrator from Kitwe who punched a hon. Minister. There is yet another case of a district administrator who declared parts of Lusaka as a no go area to certain people. There was yet another district administrator in Mumbwa who was criticising the church, in my view, unnecessarily. I think those are unfortunate instances and we are all hopeful that these will be stopped in due course. We cannot have a district administrator punching a hon. Minister or stopping people from going to certain parts of the country. Even the President, unless in certain circumstances, cannot stop a person from entering any part of the country. So, I do not know where my colleagues, the district administrators, get these powers from.

Also there was a complaint about protocol vis a vis Members of Parliament. I have a note here from the Secretary to the Cabinet which makes it clear that Members of Parliament are senior. They are elected while district administrators are appointed. Their appointment is equivalent to that of a director or head of department in a ministry. So, I think that those hon. Members of Parliament who were not sure about the position should now get this clarification. There was an incident in Livingstone which embarrassed one of our hon. Members of Parliament. Mr Chairman, I have brought the general guidelines for the office of district administrators issued by Cabinet Office. I also have the organisational chart and I also have yet another copy of the general guidelines for the post of district administrator which I wish to lay on the Table so that hon. Members can go through these documents just in case they have not had that opportunity.

The Vice-President: Laid the papers on the Table.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

The Vice-President: Mr Chairman, the Government is also aiming at improving performance of the local authorities through building their capacities within the framework of the Public Service Reform Programme (PSRP). This is expected to assist the local authorities meet their new development challenges.

Further, the Government is already doing ground work for the restructuring of the provinces as part of the Public Service Reform Programme. A fully fledged exercise will be undertaken as soon as Cabinet gives approval to the Draft National Decentralisation Policy Paper. It is this paper that spells out the functional relationships between the province and the centre; the province and the district and the district and the local authorities. That is the city, municipal and district councils. The restructuring exercise will help us to right size the establishments of the provinces in order to make them more effective.

Mr Chairman, in order to make the above institutional changes become a reality, there is great need for increased funding to the provinces to allow the various institutions the necessary financial capacities to help them execute their functions as expected by Central Government and the rural populace in particular.

I am very positive that more development projects and programmes will be identified and the existing ones will be sustained as a result of these institutional improvements that the Government has introduced at the province and particularly at the district.

The operations of the existing development committees at the community, constituency and district levels will be re-enforced with the establishment of the office of the district administrator. The operations of the various provincial administrations too, will be enhanced because the office of the district administrator is now available to timely provide the necessary information to the province to facilitate timely disbursement of financial resources meant for district development and to effectively co-ordinate and monitor the implementation of Government policies and programmes.

It is, therefore, against this background that I recommend that requests for funding from the provinces for the year 2001 be supported.

Mr Chairman, in conclusion, I want to say that I am indebted to the Provincial Deputy Ministers for assisting me in answering most of the questions.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 90/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/09 ordered to stand part of the estimates.

Vote 90/16 ordered to stand part of the estimates.

Vote 90/18 ordered to stand part of the estimates.

Vote 90/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 90/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/52 - (Office of the President - Lusaka Province - District Administration Office - K771,017,700)

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Mr Speaker, may I have clarification on sub-head 5, item 02, sub-item 001 - Minor Works - K134,290,258. The hon. Minister should explain what kind of minor works are being contemplated at the cost of K134 million.

The Vice-President (Lieutenant-General Tembo): Mr Speaker, the Office of the District Administrators is new and the money required is for minor works at the office ...

Mr Sibetta: What type?

The Vice-President: I cannot go into specific types of minor works. All I know is that this is for small jobs which must be done within the office. The major jobs are covered by a different Vote.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 90/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 91/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/19 - (Office of the President - Copperbelt Province - Department of Water Affairs - K139,802,437)

Mr Nkabika (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Chairman, on sub-head 05, item 02, sub-item 004 - Rehabilitation of Boreholes & Wells - K18,506,251, I would like to know how many they are and where they are.

The Deputy Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Mulanda): Mr Chairman, on sub-head 05, item 02, sub-item 004 - Rehabilitation of Boreholes & Wells - K18,506,251, this amount is for rehabilitation of wells throughout the province. The number of wells is not indicated here and that will require research.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 91/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 91/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/41 - (Office of the President - Copperbelt Province - Youth Development - K9,833,411,982).

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Mr Chairman, on sub-head 5, item 02, sub-item 002 - Construction of a Three Bedroomed House at Dag Hammarskjoeld Resettlement Centre - K7,000,000, may I know what type of house is envisaged to be built with this amount of money.

The Deputy Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Mulanda):  Mr Chairman, on sub-head 5, item 02, sub-item 002 - Construction of a Three Bedroomed House at Dag Hammarskjoeld Resettlement Centre - K7,000,000, the amount is simply for completion of the building construction of a three bedroomed house at Dag Hammarskjoeld Resettlement Centre. It is intended to complete a half finished building.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 91/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 91/52 - (Office of the President - Copperbelt Province - District Administrator’s Office - K1,367,650,262)

Mr Nkabika (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Chairman, on sub-head 2 - Recurrent Departmental Charges, item 04 - Training Expenses - K53,824,111 - who is to be trained in the District Administrator’s Office? Is it to train them to throw stones or what?

Laughter. {mospagebreak}

Mr Mulanda: Mr Chairman, in any office, people require training continuously and the hon. Member of Parliament should know that.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Can the hon. Minister shed light on sub-head 2 under Recurrent Departmental Charges, item 02 - Purchase of Goods - K311,940,001. What type of goods are envisaged at this colossal sum of money at the District Administrator’s Office?

Mr Mulanda: Mr Chairman, the goods required are just office goods like stationery and all the things that are used when maintaining an office.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 91/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 92/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 92/36 - (Office of the President -Central Province - Meteorological Department - K75,756,403).

Mr Hamir: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairman: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamir: Mr Chairman, I am just wondering at the hon. Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, Hon. Chikwakwa. He is not in his seat.

The Deputy Chairman: Order! The hon. Member of Parliament will do well to bear in mind that when the Chair is going through individual items in the Estimates of Expenditure, you cannot raise a point of order because doing so would be raising the point of order on the Chair itself.

Vote 92/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/44 ordered to stant part of the Estimates

Vote 92/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 92/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 93/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates
Vote 93/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 93/08 - (Office of the President - Northern Province - Roads Department - K3,541.079,869).

Mr Sikombe (Isoka West): Mr Chairman, can the hon. Minister for the Northern Province, please, explain the expenditure on sub-head 5, item 02, sub-item 001 - National Feeder Roads Programme - K3,000,000,000.

The Minister for the Northern Province (Mr Kapapa): The sum of K3 billion is required to be used for feeder roads, grants, IHPC and resources.

Mr Sichinga (Isoka East): Mr Chairman, could the hon. Minister clarify which roads will be covered by the K3 billion.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Chairman, how possible is it that every province has the same figure for feeder roads? Are these figures genuine?

The Deputy Chairman: Order! That is a policy matter which should have been covered during the debate on the Vote. Can we just seek points of clarification.

Mr Kapapa: Mr Chairman, all the roads in the Northern Province will be covered as elsewhere in the country.

Vote 93/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 93/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairman: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

MOTION

The Vice-President (Lieutenant-General Tembo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1818 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 14th March, 2001