Debates- Tuesday 26th February, 2002

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Tuesday, 26th February, 2002

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





Mr Speaker: I have been informed by His Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government business in the House that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), which is the ruling party, has appointed Hon. V. J. Mwaanga, MP, Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, as Chief Whip of the House, and Hon. R. K. Chulumanda, MP, as the Deputy Chief Whip.

I would like to add that other parliamentary groupings with ten or more Members in the House may advise me as to who their Whips are. I shall then make that fact known to the House.

Secondly, the House may wish to be reminded that, as part of our reforms to reach out to the people, these parliamentary proceedings are live on 92.6 MHz FM radio.

May His Honour, the Vice-President, please, indicate business of the House for this week.

I thank you.

The Vice-President (Mr Kavindele): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider this week. As indicated last Friday, 22nd February, 2002, the business of the House today will be restricted to the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address which he delivered to this House on Friday, 22nd February, 2002.

On Wednesday, 27th February, 2002, the House will continue with the general debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address.

Again, on Thursday, 28th February, 2002, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address. This debate will be wound up on Thursday, 28th February, 2002. On this same day Sir, I intend to move a motion to the effect that the relevant standing orders be suspended to enable the House to meet at 1415 hours on Friday, 1st March, 2002. This will facilitate the presentation of the 2002 Budget by the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr E. Kasonde). This means that the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address which starts today will last three days up to Thursday, 28th February, 2002.

In these circumstances, I would like to appeal to all hon. Members who wish to contribute to the Motion of Thanks to make their speeches as short as possible and stick to the speech so that we may have as many hon. Members as possible take part in the debate.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}



Mr R. K. Chulumanda (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the thanks of this assembly be put on record for the exposition of public policy contained in the speech delivered to this House by His Excellency the President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, on Friday, 22nd February, 2002.

Mr Speaker: Is the motion seconded?

Mr Shepande (Nangoma): Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Mr R. K. Chulumanda: Mr Speaker, first of all, allow me to congratulate His Excellency the President on delivering the most thought-provoking speech to this august House last Friday, 22nd February, 2002. In the same vein, allow me to thank you for allowing me the honour of being the mover of the motion on the vote of thanks to this wonderful speech from the Republican President.

His Excellency the President, Mr Speaker, did not only remind Zambians of the many achievements our cherished democratic rule has made, but also spared time to outline, with precision, areas of our performance needing attention.

Mr Speaker, the President, in his address, covered many areas of concern which include:

(i)    Parliamentary Affairs;
(ii)    Governance;
(iii)    Agriculture;
(iv)    Poverty;
(v)    Commerce, Trade and Industry;
(vi)    The Mining Sector; 
(vii)    Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources; 
(viii)    Energy;
(ix)    Science and Technology;
(x)    Transport;
(xi)    Health;
(xii)    Telecommunications;
(xiii)    Education; and 
(xiv)    Regional Co-operation and International Relations.

Mr Speaker, my discussion will not be structured along the well-tabulated sub-headings, but will only highlight the most pertinent issues.

The House will recall that when the MMD Government came into power, we set ourselves to achieve political and economic liberalisation and the creation of a Government for the benefit of the ordinary person. While we have made a lot of progress in this regard, we have also faced some very serious problems which the new Government, under the new deal, is determined to address and resolve. It is true that on the road to change the face of Zambia, some of our people, both in rural and urban areas, have been hurt. It is the duty of this House to assist the Government to heal the wounds that some of our people have suffered. This will not be easy, but if we unite our efforts as a nation, the job can be done.

On the mining sector, Mr Speaker, due to the great output of copper and the significant decline in its prices on the international market, there is need to exploit other minerals in the country. As you may be aware, Zambia has, for a long time, depended on copper production and export for her income. However, Zambia is endowed with varieties of other minerals such as cobalt, zinc, nickel, lead, uranium and different gemstones such as emeralds and amethyst. These, if exploited properly, would contribute greatly to national income. Currently, most of these minerals are being exported in their raw forms, which if processed, would bring income to develop the economy. It is my sincere hope that the solutions mentioned by the President to the KCM and the Government will honour Luanshya Copper Mines in order to alleviate the suffering of the people.

Mr Speaker, it has been acknowledged that, on tourism, the Zambian people are among the most peaceful, warm and receptive on the African Continent. Our ethnic diversity contributes to the beauty of our diverse culture, art, music and traditional ceremonies. Hon. Members, our game reserves such as Luangwa South and North, the Kafue National Park, to name but a few, are vast with numerous species of rare wild animals not found anywhere else in the world. 

However, there is need to construct the necessary infrastructure such as roads, hotels, and airstrips in these tourist spots to enable tourists access them. At the moment, most of our tourist attractions are inaccessible and will remain mere potential tourist attractions. Tourists do not visit potential attractions, but opened up attractions. Let us attract resources to open up these potential attractions.

I am aware, Mr Speaker, that a well-developed tourism industry could benefit Zambia by attracting more tourists and hence earn foreign exchange that would, in turn, contribute to economic development.

Mr Speaker, on forestry and wood processing, Zambia is endowed with abundant forest resources, particularly timber which could contribute to our country’s economic development. Currently, the contribution of the forestry sector to total Gross Domestic Product (GDP) stands at only one per cent. Our current potential of our forests is three billion tonnes of wood with an annual increment of thirty million tonnes. Our indigenous forests are highly diverse with some 5,000 species of flowering plants, eighty-eight species of mosses and 146 species of ferns. Although this sector should have contributed greatly to national income, the situation, however, is not so mainly because other products are exported in raw form, whose price is too low in comparison with the price of processed products.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, very important that the Zambian Government exploits these areas by entering into joint ventures with the local and foreign entrepreneurs.  Increased investment in wood forestry machinery and equipment would greatly boost the economy.

Mr Speaker, it is not my intention to cover the President’s Speech point by point. Nonetheless, I wish to state that the President gave this House a very clear road map on how we can change things around for the benefit of our people. The race to develop Zambia has started. Let us all, as a united people, work together. That is the mandate our people gave us.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Shepande: Now, Mr Speaker. 

    Mr Speaker, allow me, to thank you most sincerely for affording me the rare honour and privilege to second the Motion of Thanks to the speech of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, State Counsel, on the occasion of the Opening of the 1st Session of the Ninth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the President on his well-articulated speech, which clearly demonstrates how the new Government intends to introduce practical and development-oriented policies. This, indeed, is a fresh focus in economic and social management of our country, which is an acknowledgement that the policies of the last ten years were inadequate to move this country out of its economic malaise and unto the path of sustainable development. Good words alone are meaningless if they are not accompanied by positive action.

In this vein, Mr Speaker, I received the speech of the President to this august House as I would receive a postdated cheque to a failing bank. Therefore, this means that, forever, the speech will remain a promise and a pipe dream until and unless there is a national development plan in place against which we can measure the success of the implementation of the espoused policies.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Shepande: Mr Speaker, you are aware that in the past ten years, MMD policies were focused on moving away from complete domination of all economic activities by the State to a market-driven economy. This was pursued through relentless privatisation, liberalisation of agricultural marketing and production, removal of subsidies on education and health, removal of foreign exchange controls and the reduction of tariff controls accompanied by a vicious tax regime. This was compounded by mismanagement, abuse of public resources, flagrant corruption and lack of a clear long-term vision for the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shepande: Mr Speaker what has been the result of this state of affairs? Misguided privatisation has resulted into massive job losses, reduced employment opportunities, untold misery for our people and economic decline generally. Liberalisation of input and marketing of agricultural produce has resulted into virtual collapse of the agricultural sector, which is responsible for the continuous food shortages experienced in the last ten years. This has been very unfortunate because the primary responsibility of any Government is to feed its people.

Sir, the MMD Government has had a manifesto in the last ten years which has produced nothing but squalor, hunger and poverty in the country. I welcome the President’s admission of this fact when he stated that, and I quote:

‘Poverty has risen to unprecedented levels over the years, thus limiting the abilities of our people individually and collectively to realise their food potential. Current data show that about 80 per cent of our people are afflicted by poverty. This is a very high rate of prevalence which should not be allowed to continue.’

Sir, as we sit here in this National Assembly, millions of Zambians are without food and are living on wild tubers and vegetables and some are dying of hunger and starvation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Shepande: Yet, we hear no reaction of a national disaster to this plight. Distribution of relief food is being done in a most discriminatory manner ever imagined in a democratic society.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Shepande: Reduction of social expenditure on education has resulted into deterioration of educational standards at all levels, increased number of street children and deterioration of teaching facilities, leading to low teacher and student morale. Free education only up to Grade 7 is an understatement of the plight of secondary and university students in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shepande: Sir, we all must accept and acknowledge that education is the key to economic prosperity and growth. To give it such low priority is a manifestation of lack of vision and desire for a better and prosperous future.

Sir, the role and duty of the Government are not only to raise taxes, but also to protect the feeble, the weak and the poor in society. I, therefore, call on the MMD Government to provide free education from Grade 1 to university level, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shepande: … such as was enjoyed by the President himself under the UNIP Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sibetta: And also His Honour the Vice -President.

Mr Shepande: Mr Speaker, severe cuts in health expenditure, at a time of massive unemployment, has reduced our capacity to fight diseases and epidemics such as malaria and HIV/AIDS, which are the two leading causes of deaths in our country today. HIV/AIDS itself has significant social and economic consequences as it affects the most productive age group of the population.

Mr Speaker, while taking note of successes and failures of the past ten years, it is important to recognise that the starting point to any economic recovery must be fundamental re-thinking and re-alignment on how we govern ourselves. It is issues of good governance that determine how resources are allocated and utilized; how those given the responsibility for managing our resources are held accountable; what mechanisms exist for punishing those who misuse public resources and public office for their own ends; and how these mechanisms are implemented.

Mr Speaker, on good governance, allow me to state that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We saw this at the end of term of the UNIP Government; we saw this, again, at the end of term of the Chiluba regime. If we do not take measures now to limit power of the Government, we will see it at the end of the new deal Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: That is right!

Mr Sibetta: Sondashi wamvela!

Mr Shepande: Sir, the Executive must be separated from the Judiciary and the Legislature and serious reforms are necessary to bring this into effect. To this end, I call on the President to appoint a constitutional review commission, which will come up with recommendations for a new Zambian Constitution, where the Executive will be completely separated from the Judiciary. This will mean that the President will no long nominate and appoint Judges and Judges can then rise in order of seniority and precedence through an independent Judicial Service Commission.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shepande: Similarly, the Executive must be completely separated from the Legislature by providing that Ministers shall not be Members of Parliament.


Sir, there is currently a lot of influence by the Executive in the work of both the Judiciary and the Legislature which must be curtailed.

Mr Speaker in view of the foregoing, fellow hon. Members will agree with me that His Excellency the President’s support for the implementation of the Parliamentary Reforms is very cardinal. As the President stated, opening up of Parliament and its Committees to the public will increase the cross-pollination of ideas between the public and their elected representatives. 

Mr Speaker, the onus is on Parliament, through the Committee on Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation, to put in place practical proposals on how the public can genuinely get involved in the work of Parliament through its Committees or legislation that will come before the House. The Executive, on the other hand, should fully support the reforms by making available the necessary resources.

Mr Speaker, if this country were to improve on accountability and transparency in the use of public resources, the funding by critical institutions such as the Auditor-General’s Office, the Anti-Corruption Commission and the Drug Enforcement Commission should be enhanced. The reports by these bodies should be acted upon decisively. Serious irregularities have been observed previously, but nothing had been done.

Mr Speaker, I am gratified to note that the President will make agriculture a focus on the Government’s economic programmes. I welcome the establishment of the Grain Marketing Authority (GMA), and the re-introduction of co-operatives and I hope that we shall not fall into the same problems that characterised such institutions in the past, for example, poor recovery of loans, late delivery of fertilisers and crop wastage.

Sir, the President’s Speech was good to listen to, but the people of Zambia are tired of listening to good speeches when the beauty on the ground is chillingly different. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shepande: Mr Speaker, the Zambian people today are hungry, frustrated and disappointed, while on the Government side, corruption and other vices seem to go unchecked at the expense of development.

Mr Speaker, the Opposition is ready to take up the challenge that the President presented to this august House in his speech, if only the Government can take decisive steps to fight corruption and promote accountability in the management of public resources.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, I stand to congratulate you and your Deputy on your election for the second time to the esteemed position of Speaker and Deputy Speaker of this august House. 

Sir, the composition of the House, as it sits today, has never been like this since our independence in 1964, neither does anybody expect that life in this House will follow the usual tranquil manner of previous Parliaments, but during these difficult times, I implore you always to remember some words of St Francis
of Assissi when he prayed:

“Where there is discord, may we bring harmony;
Where there is doubt, may we bring faith; and
Where there is despair may we bring hope.”

Mr Speaker, in his marathon speech, when he opened the First Session of the Ninth National Assembly of Zambia on 22nd February, 2002, President Mwanawasa very ably covered the whole spectrum of national life in a most commendable manner. 

I would like to add my voice to the many who have congratulated him on the vision and on the efforts he intends to bring to mend the wounds of a nation in despair. His ideas on the economy fully recognises the fact that distribution of political power is meaningless without the fair distribution of economic power. In his proposal to fight poverty, he recognises the existence of the widening structure and economic gap between the rich and the poor, and that for too long, this nation has lived with under the spectra of obscene wealth side by side with abject poverty within any serious efforts to bridge the gap.

Mr Speaker, on the refugee problem, I wish to say that I represent Sesheke constituency, which is affected by some of the pronouncements that the President made in this House, especially with regard to the need for peaceful co-existence with surrounding countries.

I do not believe that any of us would quarrel with those sentiments because the reality is that geography has made us neighbours. History has made us partners. Necessity has made us allies. And I believe that those with whom nature has so joined, let no man put asunder. But in this same vein, it is important for us to remember that God has stopped creating any more land.

I am, Mr Speaker, coming to the question of the hundreds of thousands of refugees who have been pouring into this country from Angola, Congo DR and countries of the Great Lakes Region for the past decades.

With our extended borders, these people have been trooping into our land through the Northern, North-Western provinces and more so the Western Province through Nyengo into Kalabo, Lukulu, Shangombo, Sikongo and Sinjembela.

The refugee camps at Nangweshi, Mayukwayukwa, Mwange, Kala, Maheba and other makeshift camps are bursting to capacity and the refugees have become a menace to the local population.

What is more alarming is the recent statement by the Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Lackson Mapushi promising to give these refugees Zambian citizenship.


Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: Mr Speaker, we should not be carried away by this country having been nominated for the prestigious Nansen Award, which is the equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize, by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees.

Our people will not eat prizes, and even the donor community has on several occasions expressed worry about the ability of our economy to cope with the magnitude of this problem.

The world sarcastically credits Africans with having short memories. We have always forgotten that Mobutu Sese Seko was toppled from power by the hundreds of thousands of Rwandan/Hutu refugees – the Nyamulenge – …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: … to whom he had given hospitality for decades on end.

With the death of Jonas Savimbi, it is time that the Joint Permanent Commission with Angola should now sit and work out mechanisms for the repatriation of Angolan refugees back to their land.

Mr Tetamashimba: Especially from Maheba, we chase them!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: President Mwanawasa has come into power on the doctrine of the New Deal. This embodies the tenets of a Government of laws and not of men; pledges the observance of the separation of powers and the strengthening of our democratic institutions.

Mr Speaker, although Africa is weary of so many doctrines which never met their expectations, KK had his Humanism; Kwame Nkrumah – African Socialism; Julius Nyerere – Ujamaa; Sekou Toure – Democratic Centralism; Mobutu had African Authenticity; Kenyatta had Harambee and if we might add what could have been General Godfrey Miyanda’s Village Concept!


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: Let it be as it is. However, during the past few days he has been in power, this country has warmed up to some of the measures President Mwanawasa has taken which were clearly intended to signal the birth of a new regime.

Some of these are the doing away with the GRZ/ZCCM Privatisation team of Francis Kaunda, which World Bank representative Lawrence Clarke last week blamed for having caused Zambia to lose an opportunity to strike the best deal for the mines when it missed the Kafue Consortium offer; …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: … the phasing out of the Food Reserve Agency for a practical Grain Marketing Authority; the streamlining of ministries and the abolishing of the much hated Ministry Without Portfolio; the appointment of fresh brains into Government and the Zambianisation at the Zambia Revenue Authority, and many other measures. But the President needs to go further if the New Deal is to imprint itself as being more than a fetish. He must reverse and correct the glaring omissions and commissions of the previous administration. These are numerous and it will take time to deal with them all. But let us begin.

Under the Government of laws and not men, the Executive could not assume the constitutional responsibility of Parliament to decide under a Presidential fund how public funds should be expended. Under the Government of laws and not men, police could not be empowered to arrest more than forty women for staging a peaceful demonstration against raping and killing of four girls aged between eleven and thirteen in Chelston.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: Under the Government of laws and not men, the Government could not demonstrate its scorn for the moral and constitutional foundations of law and order by rejecting outright the findings of commissions of inquiry which Government itself had appointed.

Under the Government of laws and not men, those in authority could not institute a sustained and prolonged assault and intimidation of the independent media nor allow the preventative detentions and trials of innocent citizens without evidence like what happened in the cases of the Black Mamba, Zero Option and of civilians in the 1997 coup attempt, former President Kenneth Kaunda, Princess Nakatindi Wina, Dean Mung'omba and Dr Mathani.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: In short, Mr Speaker, it is some of these attitudes of the past, which the New Deal must correct.

On the need for change, the message here is that there is need for a clear departure from the ways of yesterday. Otherwise, it will be a continuation of the old regime where ways the country rejected on December 27 – 29 by an overwhelming body count.

Also in Africa, there is always the phenomenon of the disparity between promise and performance. The Mwanawasa administration will be judged on its performance, not its promises.

Mr Sibetta: Correct!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: Just as he will be judged by the contrast between his campaign promises and what he does now that he is President.

A case in point is his declaration that the Food Reserve Agency must collect all moneys owed by, among others, peasant farmers who obtained loans for fertiliser.

Mr Speaker, during his campaign for presidency, Mr Mwanawasa made the following undertakings when he was addressing a meeting. He said he would consider writing off some of the loans from the Food Reserve Agency that could not be met by the borrowers. I will lay the paper on the Table at a later date. The mode of paying the three bags of maize for one bag of fertiliser did not make any sense.

On roads and communications, he has, in his address to Parliament, made a firm undertaking with regard to the construction and maintenance of major roads in the country. The case in point here is what some people insist on calling the Livingstone/Sesheke Road, despite it being gazetted as the Nakatindi Road. This, Sir, is not a question of kulibonesha taa.


Princess Nakatindi Wina: It was named after my mother whose contribution to the liberalisation of Zambia is on record and not myself as Princess Nakatindi Wina.

The National Roads Board’s annual report for 2000 which was laid before this House showed, among other projects, that the Livingstone/Katima Mulilo Road and Bridge, funded by Germany had gone to tender. The report stated, and I quote:

‘It is expected that contractors will be on site within the first half of the year 2001.’

Now, Sir, we are in the year 2002 and I drive along that road almost every month and there is no sign even of a wheelbarrow or a shovel and the condition of the road is worse than a cattle track. What has happened to the project and to the German funding? Has it gone the way the K2.5 billion funds meant for the rehabilitation of the Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa Road went?


Princess Nakatindi Wina: On HIV/AIDS, Sir, statistics regarding AIDS are by now beyond comprehension. In Zambia as we sit here today, one in every five Zambians has AIDS. I do not mean in the august House.


Princess Nakatindi Wina: It is an evil visitor, which reaps across social structures. And by cutting deep into all sectors of society, it undermines vital economic growth, depletes the workforce and leaves behind it a trail of widows and orphans numbering 750,000 in Zambia today. It has brought down life expectancy to 37 years. While we appreciate what the Ministry of Health is doing with such limited resources at their disposal, I feel more could be done.

Let us take a leaf from Uganda, which at one time was the worst hit in Africa. There, at the moment, pregnant women who test HIV positive receive free doses of anti-aids drugs to reduce the chances of passing on the virus to their babies during delivery. In Senegal, through the United Nations system and in collaboration with pharmaceutical companies, the price of anti-aids drugs has been slashed by 90 per cent.

In Zambia, by contrast, even our hosting of the International Conference on AIDS (ICASA) in 1999 ended with the Auditor-General revealing cases of rampant corruption and thefts of funds intended for the conference by the organisers.

Mr Speaker, on the state of the economy, our economy can perhaps be judged by the rate at which private commercial banks have been closing, thus causing untold misery to thousands of individuals who had put their trust in these institutions. In this regard, it may be recalled that on 21st November, 2000, a report of the Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour reviewing the status of liquidated commercial banks was laid before this House and unanimously adopted. The report revealed the alarming state of affairs regarding GRZ loans to these commercial banks at their closure.

Mr Speaker, these include the Credit Africa Bank, Meridien Bank, Exim Bank, Manifold Investment Bank, Commerce Bank and most recently, Union Bank. Most of these banks went down due to inside borrowing and other unprofessional banking practices, the report stated. And contributing to the debate on the report in Parliament, the then Chingola Member of Parliament and back-bencher, Hon. Enock Kavindele, now Leader of the House and Republican Vice-President, called for the prosecution of all managers and directors responsible for the collapse of banks.

Hon. Opposition Members: He has forgotten.

Princess Nakatindi Wina: He claimed that money which was obtained from the Bank of Zambia to enable Meridien Bank to survive did not go for that purpose, but was transferred to New York then onwards to the Bahamas Tax Free Islands.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Princess Nakatindi Wina: The question that Hon. Kavindele asked was: ‘who is protecting these people and why are they being protected when people who steal little things like a bag of potatoes get arrested?’

Mr Speaker, I would like to wind up my brief contribution by warning that, although it has been stated that Zambians are peaceful and docile people, there is a limit to that assumption. They are patient because they have hope that the new Mwanawasa administration, with its new deal, might bring relief to their sufferings. But if it proves that they have waited in vain, those sitting on the Government benches are sooner than later bound to hear the demands of the Zambian people in the famous words with which Oliver Cromwell dismissed the Long Parliament. And these words were, and I quote:

‘You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.’

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Patel (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to congratulate you on your election and that of the Deputy Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I will confine my remarks to the key issues of the rule of law, corruption, Parliamentary reform and economic management. This is the first time in ten years that I have heard a speech by a Republican President that was truly national in content. It was as non-partisan as it should be. Not once did we hear the name MMD or self-important political rhetoric. For this, the President must be congratulated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, what Chairman Mao said about praising enemies was in a different context and time. Opposition Members in Zambia are not enemies and so praise from the Opposition will be given when it is due. The same goes for criticism.

Mr Speaker, the President has pronounced the vision framework and, now, we await the substance, if any, in the forthcoming Budget. I am of the opinion that very little can and will be done this year because of massive fiscal irresponsibility in the last administration. President Mwanawasa has inherited an ailing economy and a massive local debt and foreign debt arising from gross mismanagement. The figures speak for themselves.

In the past ten years, the Executive has consistently resisted Parliamentary Reforms. So, I am happy and excited that for the first time, a Republican President has endorsed the urgency for Parliamentary Reforms. I hope that the Minister of Finance and National Planning will provide sufficient funds to the National Assembly to enable this to happen. Otherwise, this well-intended vision will remain rhetorical. In the main, the Government has also ignored Parliamentary reports and we hope this will now change. 

Mr Speaker, I am also delighted that the President has made a public commitment on how public resources must be made accountable. He said with regard to FRA, and I quote:

“I will ensure that all the outstanding loans are repaid and this is non-negotiable.”

What about DBZ and other institutions? Why should there be half measures? Mr Speaker, I am dismayed that he did not go further on so many matters that require immediate Government initiative and not only from the Opposition or civil society, to hand over matters to do with the Auditor-General, the Anti-Corruption Commission and/or the Drug Enforcement Agency or, indeed, a public inquiry. For instance, the Carlington saga, the US$17 million, PHI/OAU Village project, the so called Zambia National Oil Company US$100 million loss, the Cobalt scam of US$80 million, the illegality of the sale of ZCCM non-core assets which, to date, the ZPA has not approved.

The former Attorney-General is on record listing the assets that were illegally disposed of. So, why demand the public enquiry on Meridien Bank and leave out the others? It is the integrity of this administration that will be questioned. How were hundreds of billions of kwacha given in the past ten years to the Zambia Intelligence Service been utilised?

When His Honour the Vice-President was a back-bencher he is on record in this House as having described the Zambia Intelligence Service as one of the most ostentatious unit in Government. This issue also requires full and immediate inquiry. What is the position on this issue?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear hear!

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, there are so many Auditor-General’s reports in the past ten years that have highlighted serious abuse of office and misappropriation of funds. Are all these reports to be forgotten? If so, that will be immoral. We want to hear of an action being taken.

Mr Speaker: Order! Let me guide the House that all of you are making maiden speeches. As far as possible, in accordance with the procedure and practice, the Members should restrain themselves from raising points of order on maiden speakers.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: However, maiden speakers are always reminded to avoid raising contentious issues in their speeches. If they do, those who are listening and dispute what they are saying will be tempted to raise points of order.

In the case of the issue being raised by the hon. Member for Lusaka Central, I would suggest that he finishes what he is saying. The Government will be free to reply or to correct in the course of their responses whatever they feel are erroneous statements being made by the hon. Member for Lusaka Central or any other Member for that matter.

So, I would like to ask the hon. Members of the House to be as patient as possible with one another as they contribute and deliver their maiden speeches.

Will the hon. Member, please, continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair!

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, let me simply quote what His Excellency the President said on this matter. He said, and I quote:

“My administration is anxious that timely action should be taken on these reports (the Auditor-General’s reports). Otherwise, why have an Auditor-General if his reports are, in the main, ignored? This inertia has the unfortunate effect of encouraging theft, corruption and abuse of office in the public office. This phenomenon has no room in the new deal.”

Mr Speaker, these matters are not going to be washed away. It is the responsibility of the Executive to take the initiative without further delay. We would like to hear a clear and categorical position on this matter. Like the President said, and I quote:

    “This House is not a battle front or battle ground.”

Mr Speaker, he also said, and I quote:

“My administration will endeavour to promote the rule of law in which citizens are governed by laws and not by the whims of men.”

On the subject of whims of men, this is exactly how regrettably the current administration is behaving with regard to the former Presidents Benefits Act.

It is said, Mr speaker, that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The former administration humiliated Dr Kaunda. They searched his belongings. He had to rent a House on his own and was nearly evicted. The Government came back to Parliament to redefine some of the sections of the law in order to ensure he did not get any benefits until he was completely out of politics.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Patel: Yet, what do we see today? The former President Chiluba has been given benefits in form of vehicles and security personnel. Why? This is illegal. So, we should stop it. If we do not stop it, why talk about the rule of law.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, matters of corruption and abuse of office are an affront to a nation’s interests and they must be dealt with expeditiously. So, what, in God’s name, is the Government waiting for? There is no logical explanation rather than political expedience on the part of the administration.

Mr Speaker, these issues will also affect financing the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for him to implement this year’s Budget. On negotiations with the multilateral and bilateral organisations, there are already issues, which have been on the table for the past five years, like the cobalt sales scam and torture of suspects.

Mr Speaker, the President, surprisingly and regrettably, did not touch on the need for constitutional review and law reforms. Take the Penal Code, for instance, which has about ten or more sections that are outdated and unnecessary in a democratic dispensation.

It is my intention to introduce private Members Bills dealing with the Penal Code and other media related legislation during this session. I am not going to wait for the good will of the Executive because we have waited since 1994.

Mr Speaker, on the economy, it will only be fair and correct to say that it is in doldrums. The Government, for the last ten years, was consistently inconsistent in every economic policy and agreement they reached with the World Bank and IMF. At the last CG meeting, which we had in Lusaka and attended by Hon. Kasonde - we trust that the next one will also be held in Zambia - the Government said so many good things about the economic management and issues of good governance. Sugar -coated words they were which immediately melted in the mouth. Nothing of substance was ever delivered. We hope to see a change in such policy implementation.

Mr Speaker, soon the Budget will be presented and all that the President outlined in his speech should find its “meat” in the Budget. So, it is very important that we talk about the Budget today, before it is announced.

I went through the past six budgets and the IMF letters of intent and BOZ/MOF statistics are available to the public. By doing simple calculations on incremental percentage basis and looking at the total debt stock, what I found is shocking and disturbing for this year’s Budget.

Almost half of the revenues will probably go to personal emoluments and local and foreign debts. We have not run a cash budget, but a debt budget. We will probably have less than K200 to K300 billion for our resources which is about US$50 to US$60 million. Other than that, we have to obtain the funds from our donor friends. This, therefore, will mean that the donor financing is still critical; a lot of pledges have not been made. The Consultative Group meeting will probably be held in June. It is also expected that such financing will be tied to economic policy issues, good governance, corruption and the pending matters of the cobalt report and torture report.

Mr Speaker, this, therefore, means that without donor support, we would face one of the most difficult years we have ever had. If you consider the ZCCM saga, we are in a serious predicament. When ZCCM mines were sold, the Government signed a Golden Share Agreement. Obviously, this agreement was seriously flawed for it was meant to protect our interests and the pledged investment. Those who negotiated this particular agreement, obviously, did not do so in good faith.

Mr Speaker, what is worrying is that no balance of payment support has yet been announced, nor is the IMF ready to confirm the lending and debt programme of US$300 million for this year.

Mr Speaker, let me quote Robert Sharer of IMF in his statement issued in Lusaka on 16th February 2002 in Lusaka. He said, and I quote:

“Because there are still a number of unknowns waiting to be resolved in the mining sector, the fund expects to conclude negotiations in April, 2002, in Washington.”

In practical terms, this means that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is going to continue the regrettable practice of announcing a budget that is not fully funded. He is simply going to predict.

Mr Speaker, this, therefore, raises alarm for what is contained in the President’s Speech will remain, to a large extent, hopes and wishes, at least, for this year.

The President’s vision for Zambia is good and well meant. However, drastic and urgent changes must be made in matters of governance, constitutional review, corruption, style of economic management and reduction in the size of Government. We still have twenty Cabinet Ministers and thirty-three Deputy Ministers. This size of Government is not sustainable at all. We will, therefore, move one step forward and two steps backwards.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Kalifungwa): Mr Speaker, in contributing to the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address, in the first place, I wish to applaud you and your Deputy Speaker on your successful election to the Chair. The confidence of the citizenry and that of the hon. Members has been upheld.

Mr Speaker, it is our wish to maintain credibility and integrity of this august House. The continuity of the honour, humility and impartiality that has been exhibited by the Chair in the last session will enhance and add value to the democratic dispensation of this House.

Mr Speaker, may the good Lord give you vision, courage and good health to preside over the House to the end of the Ninth National Assembly. In the same vein, I wish to pay tribute to the political players, hon. Members of Parliament, including myself. We all fought a good fight. Our being here is a success of our people’s courage to fight and win.

Sir, we are all here to serve the people and we have the same purpose. We should be partners in development of our country because our constituents who are the people of Zambia are the same. In acknowledging and endorsing the President’s Speech, a lot of time has been wasted in vesting in political arguments. These arguments only encourage poverty and time for politicking is over. Let us now invest and engage in the development of our nation and the theme from now onwards should be economic development and a better life for our people. Let us promote unity, productivity and national development as a Parliament.

Mr Speaker, we have the responsibility, intellectual capacity and ability to facilitate the achievement of the Zambian dream which is economic prosperity, and that the people of Zambia are at all times held paramount. Nothing should be done to compromise these goals.

We should consult for development and avoid missing the point on hand. Sir, this country faces serious economic challenges arising from the global economic slow down and the local environment. To meet these challenges, we will require the co-operation of all stakeholders, including, all the people of Zambia because no one will develop this country, except ourselves.

Mr Speaker, the mono economy dependence syndrome should be urgently addressed with the diversification into truly serious productive and growth areas of agriculture, tourism, small-scale mining and the industry sector. More money is required to expand the agricultural sector, which is the heart of our economy. The rain-fed crop cannot sustain agriculture. Therefore, irrigation and damming of rivers should be adopted as Zambia’s culture for agriculture.

Mr Speaker, the economy cannot grow if we do not take a long-term view of development aspects. It is in this view that planning is cardinal to any development and planning ensures transparency, accountability and implementation of plans.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is, therefore, better placed to project the national vision and prioritise the needs, mobilise external and local resources and employ them effectively to areas which give maximum benefits to the people. It is in this regard, that we shall put in place the long-range strategic development-planning programme that will prioritise social and economic development.

Sir, the Auditor-General’s Office is an extension of the controlling mechanism of the planning process. It is a very important wing of the Government, which requires priority in terms of funding, and appreciation of its findings. Their reports must be expeditiously auctioned to enhance their performance and motivate their productivity. Their work must not be suppressed because that will entail and encourage corruption and abuse of office, and that will also discourage transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, the Government ‘s intentions are, therefore, to make sure that the Auditor-General’s Office is strengthened. It is important that we operate transparently to ensure that taxpayer’s money and the donor countries’ money is being used for the intended purpose. We should be judicious and prudent in the usage of our resources.

With regard to the HIPC funds, these funds should go to programmes such as the development of schools, health facilities, water, rural roads, rural electrification and HIV/AIDS.

Mr Speaker, the New Deal administration will not accommodate any misuse of public resources because people are currently extremely poor. It is important that officers that misapply these funds are ruthlessly dealt with because this is bordering on abuse of office and poverty levels will never be brought down. Planning and control will, therefore, be strengthened to monitor the flow of these funds.

Mr Speaker, for the people to revitalise their confidence in the Government, the Government has given directives to Anti-Corruption Commission and the other good governance wings to be vigilant to expose and prosecute all those that are corrupt to try and bring down corruption levels.

Mr Speaker, I think it is important and healthy that we speak openly on corrupt people and provide evidence to facilitate prosecution. There has been zero tolerance declaration to corruption; we have to ensure that there is total transparency, accountability and good governance. This will be good for the nation and will restore credibility.

Mr Speaker, the country has lost credibility and the external funding inflow to support the balance of payment due to allegations of poor governance. Our interest, therefore, should be to pursue a path of development with good governance.

Sir, for the purpose of prudential management and in pursuit of promoting democracy, transparency, good governance and the rule of law, it is appreciated that Parliamentary Committee sittings will be opened to the general public in line with Parliamentary Reforms.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Moonde (Bweengwa): In the first place, I would like to congratulate you and your Deputy on being elected to the Chair. I wish to thank you for allowing me to give my maiden speech to this august House, especially that I am the first very new Member of Parliament to do so.

I would like to thank the great people of Bweengwa Constituency who have given me this rare opportunity of serving them as their Member of Parliament for the next five years. This is a big but noble challenge given to me.

May I also take this opportunity to congratulate all other hon. Members of Parliament on their success in the battle for Parliament in their respective constituencies. We should all feel proud that we were chosen from among many others to represent our people.

May I also congratulate those who caught the President’s eye or ear, like Hon. Sikatana on being nominated to Parliament.


Mr Moonde: It is incumbent upon all of us in this House to serve our people to the best of our abilities. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to begin my speech by appealing to the Government to ensure that the levels of poverty afflicting our people are reduced from 80 per cent since it may not be possible to completely eradicate poverty. However, the ultimate goal must be the complete elimination of poverty. To this effect, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to ensure that a large amount of money is given to the Office of the President under the Office of Disaster Management to procure food for people to be fed so that as we debate here, the people whom we represent should be eating.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Moonde: As I speak now, some of our compatriots are dying from starvation, while others are struggling to make ends meet. Our society is now pregnant with starvation, illiteracy, disease, corruption and other dehumanising vices and problems. There is general deprivation to most of the social amenities, which include health, education, good sanitation and so on as a result of our economy, which is in the intensive care unit. Our single mothers, some of who have lost their husbands due to depression resulting from abrupt and unplanned job losses, are facing a lot of problems. As if this was not enough, the manufacturing industry has collapsed adding to the long and endless list of job losses for our people.

All of a sudden, the Zambian vocabulary has added to its active use words like retrenchment, liquidation and redundancies. These words have now become the order of the day, when in the past they were only being used sparingly. The food insecurity now affecting our people could be a source of national insecurity if not arrested at this stage. The New Deal Government should come up with new but more honourable deals for the benefit of the majority of the people of Zambia who are wallowing in abject poverty. Time for slogans is long gone. The New Culture brought hunger; we hope the New Deal will bring food security.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, allow me to make some suggestions on the way forward. In general, I take cognisance of the fact that in his opening speech to Parliament, the President spelt out certain measures aimed at resuscitating the economy. It is true that the President’s Speech contains far-reaching measures, which if implemented, would, perhaps, help revitalise our economy. The irrigation scheme being proposed is something that is long overdue. A sound agricultural and marketing policy is what the people of Zambia have always been asking for. The proposed Crop Marketing Authority to take care of crop marketing and to be a buyer of last resort of designated crops, if well managed, would, perhaps, bring new hope to our farming community. 

I would like to urge the Government, as a matter of urgency, to give subsidies to the small-scale farmers in order to enhance production and thereby ensure food security. Measures aimed at restocking livestock should also be implemented as a matter of urgency. However, restocking alone is not enough as there is need to provide sufficient medicine to prevent and cure some of the common diseases afflicting our livestock. The Government should ensure that the money owed to the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia for the fertiliser obtained through the Food Reserve Agency is repaid. In other words, the Government should also ensure that it settles its debt obligations, while urging individuals to do the same.

Mr Speaker, with regard to social services, while welcoming the Government’s intentions to offer free education up to Grade7, I would like to propose that the Government seriously considers extending this facility up to Grade 12 or, at least, Grade 9. I am afraid if this is not done now, this country will end up with the majority of people being educated up to Grade 7. The Government should not hesitate to invest heavily in the field of education. Most of the resources freed from the HIPC initiative should, in fact, go to education and health.

Mr Speaker, with regard to health, I would like to appeal, in the first place, to the hon. Minister of Health to ensure that there is adequate medicine in the hospitals and clinics. It is very surprising to find that in certain cases, even panadol is not in our hospitals. This, I think, should be taken care of. I note that while the President’s Speech talks about free education from Grades 1 to 7, nothing is being mentioned about provision of free medical services to some of our deserving people. Just as people cannot afford to pay for education, they equally have problems in paying for medical services. There should be free medical services to all those that cannot afford, considering that more than 80 per cent of our people are poor. There is also need to ensure that the education syllabus incorporates HIV/AIDS lessons from Grades 6 to 12.

As regards labour, Mr Speaker, while appreciating the President’s Speech about the need to have a well-remunerated Public Service, I am worried about the conditionality put to attain that goal. It would appear, although the urgency of this matter has been recognised, the solution must pend until the economy improves. In other words, everything else should happen now, but the improvement to the salaries and conditions must wait for the day or decade when the economy shows signs of recovery. This kind of approach defeats the very purpose for which the much talked about Public Service Reform Programme was set. We have been told that one of the reasons for restructuring the Public Service was to ensure a small, efficient and well-remunerated Public Service. Now, the restructuring is over except for one or two ministries, and yet Public Service workers are being told to wait to be well paid when the economy improves. When will this be? It has already improved for other people. When is it going to improve for Public Service workers?


Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, there is also need to review the implementation of the Public Service Reform Programme (PSRP) and assess its successes and failures. I have a feeling that PSRP has not achieved its desired objectives. In some cases, this programme has been used to get rid of promising young men and women who are viewed as a threat to those in corridors of power be it in the Civil Service or, indeed, political offices. There are some ill-qualified senior Government officials who found themselves in their positions by sheer luck or accident, and are frustrating people below them who are better qualified and experienced and thus viewed as potential threats. Let us start our review right from Cabinet Office. The Public Service Reform Programme should, among other things, be able to attract back to this country our economic refugees in neighbouring countries. 

Mr Speaker, since I have been warned that my maiden speech should not be controversial, I do not intend to hurt anybody and I, therefore, plead that what I am saying be understood in its correct context.

Mr Speaker, labour is a very important factor of production and its importance must be demonstrated through payment of a living wage to employees, especially those working in the Government. At the moment, the only civil servants getting a living wage are District Administrators. I am given to understand that even hon. Members of Parliament are getting less than District Administrators. I wish to appeal to the New Deal Government to go beyond promising good pay by introducing a poverty datum line. The Government should also ensure that its workers are exposed to new management techniques through constant and consistent training and retraining. This would ensure improvement on manpower development and capacity building.

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the Government to ensure that all archaic labour laws are repealed or reviewed. Some of these laws heavily weigh in favour of foreign investors disregarding or disadvantaging local personnel in form of workers. Subjecting workers to working as casuals for unreasonably long periods is another form of slavery, which should not be tolerated.

I would like to propose that labour unions be involved in the decision making process regarding the type of investors coming to this country. The idea of giving a leeway to investors to choose what personnel to come with should be reviewed, as some of these investors have abused this casual approach. For example, they bring in plumbers and cooks to come and work here when we have plenty of local manpower.

Zambia attained her Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) status in December, 2000. The Government should show to the people of Zambia how the resources saved from the HIPC Programme are being utilised. We have a right to know whether this money is being channeled to the social sector to mitigate effects of poverty or something else is happening to it. It must be realised that during and prior to the CG Meeting, Members of Parliament, NGOs and the civil society in general, played a significant role in asking for debt relief from co-operating partners. Having achieved that through HIPC, we feel it is a right for us to know exactly what is happening to the freed resources.

Mr Speaker, while addressing the issue of privatisation and investment, allow me to appeal to this Government to look into the issues of capital flight. I am aware that this economy has been liberalised and anyone can do anything to earn a living, but I am concerned about capital flight. Is there no way we could ensure that parts of the proceeds from the business community are ploughed back into our economy? I am aware people pay tax, but I am not sure as to how competent the tax system is in taking care of all tax evaders. I hope the ultimate aim of the economic liberalisation is not to make Zambia a mere disposal ground for goods of people from other countries who later on externalise all their proceeds either back to their respective countries or, indeed, to other countries. I am not even asking for exchange controls, but I believe there is need to seriously look into this matter.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, as a people’s representative, I eagerly look forward to a budget, which will in real terms reduce the burning issue of poverty of our people. The President was supposed to open this Parliament on the 15th of February, 2002 and I am sure that the delay was to make sure that his speech is in line with the contents of the Budget. 


Mr Moonde: These days people are having one meal a day; they may soon have none at all. We owe it to ourselves, to posterity and even to God to bring about tangible changes to the lives of our suffering people. Indeed, the nominal salaries may have gone up over the years, but the real income has drastically dropped. Indeed, it is no longer a pride to be called a farmer because this once noble venture is now an agony. The high taxes on the meager incomes of our people and the rather prohibitive interest rates in our banks and the unprecedented capital flight from our country, all in the name of economic liberalisation, simply make it impossible for some of us to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The MMD Government should embrace and consult all stakeholders in the country, including the God given powerful, talented and objective Opposition Members of Parliament in this House when addressing …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Sikatana: Which ones?

Mr Moonde: …serious national issues, for hunger knows no political boundary. It does not even know new or old deals, it simply strikes.

President Mwanawasa delivered an inspiring speech, which I hope will not just be another speech as those delivered in the past. In the next few days when the Budget is presented, the people of Zambia will be able to judge for themselves whether words will match with action.

May god bless this House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tetamashimba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, please, allow me to thank you most sincerely for your kindness in allowing me to give my maiden speech in the first Zambian Parliament of the 21st century. I am one of the less than thirty Members of Parliament who have saved both in the last and this first century.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, let me also thank you for your transparent election as Speaker together with your Deputy, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … which election was open and transparent to all the voters who were in the House then.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sibetta: Kabanje.

Mr Tetamashimba: I also wish to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly for the way he conducted the elections on that day of 12th February, 2002 …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … when we voted without a secrete vote.


Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, allow me also to congratulate all the Members of Parliament, especially the new ones, on their deserved election victories in the year 2001 tripartite elections. Their coming to this House is to serve the people of Zambia across partisanship.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the great people of Solwezi Central …

Hon. Opposition Members: Correct!

Mr Tetamashimba: … for their political vision in voting for me as Member of Parliament for the No. 1 constituency in the North-Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, let me also thank the United Party for National Development (UPND), the party in which I am proud to be one of the genuine founders … 

On. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Tetamashimba: … and currently, the Secretary-General and also the UPND President, Mr Mazoka and the National Management Committee for their kindness in allowing me to contest the Solwezi Central seat on the UPND ticket.

The UPND, Mr Speaker, controls nine of the twelve constituencies in the North-Western Province …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Tetamashimba: … and is, therefore, the most dominant political party in the province. The UPND Sir, made sure that anybody who was associated with the former regime of the past ten years as Minister between the years of 1996 and 2001 was defeated.


Mr Tetamashimba: Except, of course, for the His Honour the Vice-President (Mr Kavindele) who came from another province to the North-Western Province …


Mr Sibetta: Relief maize!


Mr Tetamashimba: I am sure he cannot claim that the Minister from that province, he was from the Copperbelt.

Mr Sibetta: He ran away from Ba Chilufya!

Mr Tetamshimba: Mr Speaker, allow me to convey to you greetings from the people of Solwezi Central. They have also asked me to convey to you their problems that I will later discuss with our New Deal Ministers in their offices as we proceed within the year.

 The issues, Sir, of agriculture, education, mining, privatisation, constitution review, etc. are cardinal to the people of Solwezi Central.

On agriculture, Sir, the past ten years of the MMD rule has made agriculture collapse and the people in my constituency want this government to change from the Chiluba era of ‘everyone for himself and God for us all attitude.’ My appeal to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives who is …

Mr Sibetta: My uncle.

Mr Tetamashimba: I would like the hon. Minister, Sir, to work in conjunction with the Zambian National Farmers Union and also the Zambia Co-operative Federation an institution forgotten for the past six years.

Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Agriculture Minister who has actually borrowed the UPND manifesto on agriculture …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … on his intentions of heavy subsidy. I congratulate you, Mr Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Well done!

Mr Tetamashimba: If you had been there the past five years, maybe, the whole House would have been MMD, but since the people who were there did not care, that is why the Opposition Members are more than the MMD (ruling party).


Mr Tetamashimba: My appeal, Sir, to the hon. Minister is to fix floor prices …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … across the country so that anybody can purchase at a higher price, but for the villagers in Solwezi Central, who may not find a market, the Government can come and buy through what is being proposed as a Crop Marketing Authority. Of course, the UPND manifesto states just that.

Mr Mwaanga: So does the MMD one.

Mr Tetamashimba: Thank you very much, hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services. 

The view, Mr Speaker, coming from our province is that the storage sheds, which were left ten years ago by the founding President, have had no maize in them. This is across the country. Of course, I do remember during the past ten years when Hon. Dr. Sondashi brought a motion on the Floor on agriculture, there was only one person from that side who supported it, while others talked of paprika. I think it was no other than the Vice-President who said that he grows maize.

The Vice-President: Hear, hear!


Mr Tetamashimba: I am sure the Republican President might have read his submissions and that is why he has decided to put the hard-working Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives under his office. 

Unless the Government gives the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives more money to subsidise production through cheap fertilisers and buys maize from all corners of Zambia, we shall never defeat hunger in this country. I request the Republican President, H. E. Levy Mwanawasa, State Counsel, to declare the hunger situation in the country as a disaster. I appeal to donors to put in more money in co-operatives through this Government. This year there will be more hunger than ever before, Mr Speaker.

My last comment on agriculture, Mr Speaker, is to thank Hon. Mundia Sikatana for his revelations of the plunder by the former regime and the transfer of over US $90 million to the Bahamas.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is reminded that he is delivering a maiden speech. As such, references like the ones he has touched on are contentious. May he move on to the next point. When he has facts on that issue, the papers must be laid on the Table of the House. 

May he continue, please.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, the people of Solwezi Central are asking for all these monies to be used to purchase the crop.


Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, it is also our wish that education will be given priority. The Republican President informed the nation that he would give free education up to Grade 7. Without demeaning the people who have gone as far as Grade 7, I know that our colleagues who are in the Front Bench, and I think the Middle Bench, their office orderlies are beyond Grade 7. Therefore, many people would have loved a situation where we were going to have a cut off point that would enable people find something to do upon leaving school.

Mr Speaker, on health, when we were going round campaigning, we were telling the people of Solwezi Central that soon and very soon, medicine would be free. We appeal to the Government to extend free health services to the Zambians. There are less than 320 000 people who are in gainful employment out of the 10 million Zambians. I do not know whether it is possible for the 9.8 million who are not working to pay for medical fees. I do not think so.

Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on privatisation. Solwezi has suffered under the last regime through the privatization and destruction of Kansanshi Mine. The people of Solwezi will not forget this destruction by the former MMD regime. My hope is that the New Deal will come to the rescue of Solwezi residents by re-opening the mines. The regime did not only destroy Kansanshi, but Luanshya Mine as well, through their dubious sale, where the former members of the GTZ Privatisation Committee did not give the mine to Quantum, but to Ramcoz.

Mr Speaker, this, actually, goes together with what happened with the rest of the mines where the consortium had offered one billion kwacha, but we know how much we ended up selling our mines. It is our hope that the New Deal Government will try as much as possible to serve the people, who, if we do not help, will suffer through the KCM liquidation. Our appeal to the Government is not to allow KCM to go under.

Mr Speaker, my view on KCM is that the owners are likely to ask the Government one of the two things that I am going to mention. They are likely to ask our Government to either forego the sale balance that they would have paid. What I mean is that they are going to ask to be given the mine for free so that they operate and keep the 11,000 people in employment.


Mr Tetamashimba: Mark our words. This is what you were saying in the previous Government. The next thing they are going to ask for, Mr Speaker, is for the Government to pump in money so as to continue production.

Mr Speaker, may I also thank the Zambia Privatisation Agency for their recent stand on the Ndola Lime and I am grateful to the Government that the mine is going to be re-advertised. If that is what the New Deal will bring to the Zambians, I think there will be no more corruption. 

Mr Speaker, our view on the mines is that the Government should start concentrating on the Konkola Deep Mining Project. The advantage of KDMP is that the deeper you go the better copper you get. So, our advice to the New Deal Government, through the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development who, I believe, is a professional engineer in mining, he will, definitely, help the Zambian people to get the best deal out of this project. I would not hesitate if the Government came to this House to ask for money to pump into the project.

Mr Speaker, let me make a few comments on energy. Our country exports electricity to neighboring countries.

Mr Speaker, the most surprising thing is that the neighbouring countries where we export our electricity to, sell that commodity to their nationals cheaply than it is sold to the Zambians where it is produced. Even if it meant importing our electricity from the countries where we export our electricity to and pay in dollars, it would still be cheaper than a person paying for it from here. We appeal to our New Deal Government to consider reducing the tariffs.

Mr Speaker, tankers of fuel go to Malawi and when the commodity reaches Malawi, our colleagues from Chipata simply go beyond Mchinji border where they buy the fuel at a cheaper price.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I do not think the scenario should be like that, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Speaker, let me say a few things on the Ministry of Works and Supply. I am glad that the hon. Minister who is there now knows Solwezi Central very well and that he is going to do a lot for the people there. On local government, I praise the hon. Minister about what he is trying to do in the ministry.

 Mr Speaker, allow me to say a few things on the Constitution. We would like some clauses to be changed in the Constitution. For example, Article 34  (2b) on parentage to be changed. We know that the last Republican President won his petition case because he was in Zambia in 1964. Why then, should people like Ticklay who had been in Zambia before 1964 be in the United Kingdom up to now. The New Deal Government should give him a chance to come back to his country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, last but not least, when Members of Parliament praise the Head of State - we know that many people have been reading the Mao Tse-tung books - they should not state that by having that support from the Opposition, then the Republican President is a fool. That is not correct.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

The Deputy Minister for Southern Province (Mr Mpombo): I thank you, Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kafulafuta Constituency and, indeed, on my own behalf. I wish to …


Mr Mpombo: … offer my profound and heartfelt congratulations on your well -deserved election as Speaker of this august House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mpombo: Your election, Mr Speaker, including that of your Deputy, is a vivid manifestation of the confidence and trust that Members of Parliament have in your ability to chart new courses.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, you have already acquitted yourself when you went to swear before His Excellency the President. You made a petition to him so that he could consider every hon. Member here as equal regardless of his or her political affiliation.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the President’s Speech. The President’s Speech was a source of great inspiration to all of us. It was, indeed, a mother of all political manifestoes in this country. The speech is a road map to the economic recovery of Zambia. It will go a long way in resuscitating the economy and give a new lease of life to various sectors of the economy.

Mr Speaker, the President took the bull by its horns by raising seriously the issues obtaining in the agricultural sector. Indeed, for a lot time, the agricultural sector has been the festering ulcer. The situation by the Government to introduce reforms in this particular area will, indeed, go a long way in ensuring that Zambia forges ahead in terms of food production.

Mr Speaker, the beautiful intentions of the Government by His Excellency cannot succeed in the absence of …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was stressing the need …

Hon. Opposition Members: You did not adjourn.

Mr Mpombo: … for a health political climate in the country in order for these bold and dynamic measures contained in the President’s Speech to succeed. I see no need any more for political brinkmanship amongst political leaders. All political stakeholders must put their hands together in order to cultivate a better and health image for this country. The tendency of playing to the gallery will just scare off investors and all those people having good meaning for Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Therefore, we must put aside all our political aspirations in order to contribute to Zambia’s needs constructively. In fact, Mr Speaker, our motto should be, Zambia, a united a nation. We should endeavour to strive towards achieving national unity.

Mr Speaker, I am a bit worried about the alarming levels of political intolerances in our political structures. When we talk about good governance, it is not only in the ruling MMD Government, but good governance should be even in our various political parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, it is from these same political parties that we are going to form Government. So, when political parties resort to draconian measures against people with dissenting political views, it is quite alarming.


Mr Sibetta: Point of order!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member who is raising a point of order has been a Member of this House before. I am sure he knows very well that maiden speeches do not attract points of order.

The Deputy Minister should withdraw the phrase ‘draconian measures.’

Will you, please, continue.

Mr Mpombo: I am most obliged, Mr Speaker. I withdraw that word unreservedly.

What I was saying is that if political parties descend on a Member with dissenting views like a ton of bricks, then it undermines the democratic ideals of any political set-up. If Members want to know how certain significant issues have been handled in their political parties and the answer is the series of suspensions or dismissals, then that does not augur well for democracy.

Democracy means free opinion and free expression of one’s view is the bedrock of democracy. If we are talking about democracy, charity must begin at home. We must show democratic examples. 

So, Mr Speaker, I would have been very happy if all of us in this House contributed to democracy in this country by tolerating different views. If we do not, then, we have no moral right to attack certain issues within the ruling MMD Government because you are sweeping your dirty under the carpet. So, we have got to be bold enough and stand up for our rights for democracy.

Mr Tetamashimba: Your cadres deflated the tyres to my car.  Is that democracy?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about NGOs. I have always said that NGOs play a very pivotal role in the civil society of any country. Therefore, it bothers me when I see that these NGOs are being used as shortcuts to political office or personal achievements.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: The political civil society is supposed to help to develop the country through various programmes. But what we are seeing is that money that is meant to uplift the living standards of the people goes towards reducing unemployment on retrenched professors.


Mr Mpombo: We have seen professors gallivanting from one province to another living on allowances from the money that is meant to service the people. This tendency must be checked.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: On the question of education, I want to salute the President for a very bold move he has taken on education. However, I want to ask the hon. Minister of Education to ensure that gains that people of Zambia will get under this arrangement are not wiped away by PTAs. Normally, PTAs will come up with very unbearable school fees and that will undermine the spirit behind this new move. It is also my hope that the hon. Minister will move in.

On agriculture, the new Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is a ball of fire and I have no shred of doubt in my mind that he will deliver.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo:  I also want to say that agriculture has been in the doldrums for a long time and the people of Zambia would want to see immediate positive changes in that direction.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Moonde did raise a very important issue concerning food security. I do share his views that the Office of the Vice-President should be adequately funded in order to cope with these issues.

Sir, the entire Southern part of Zambia is in a very serious crisis as far as drought is concerned. Even Nakambala Sugar Estate is badly affected. What it means, therefore, is that people in most parts of Southern Province have literally nothing to harvest. So, if there are people with food, it will, maybe, last for two weeks or so after harvesting. So, I would wish to appeal to the Office of the Vice-President to put in mitigating factors to cater for the people from now up to next year. The situation is quite serious and it is a serious problem.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: The Government must look into that.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, I think that this is not the time for playing the blame game. This kind of attitude has actually created problems in Zambia. This kind of situation where people today are in government, tomorrow they go to an anthill and dissect the same government that they were serving and also go further to say, “It is not me, all these things were done by that government”. Such people should not even be entertained because they are a big shame. This is because any leader worthy his sort will stand up and say, “Mr President I do not agree with this and, therefore, I am walking out of your Government.” To stay until you finish your loan, until your children finish schools, that is when you want to leave?


Mr Mpombo: So those double-faced leaders must not be entertained. It is a big shame, really, you are serving a Government department, you are a signatory of important policy measures and then at the end of the day you say, “No it was not me, it was the other person”. That is immoral.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Such people should not be entertained at all. People must have principles. For this country to advance there should be certainly no time for such kind of politicians.

Miss Nawakwi: Question!

Mr Mpombo: How do you say that all the contracts you signed under your ministry were under cohesion, including everything you did? And when you went to Paris Club, NGOs were condemned as the scum of the earth, things like that, and you come home to say, “It was the other person”. These kinds of politics are not accepted.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Sichinga (Kafue): Mr Speaker, let me take the opportunity, first of all, to congratulate you, and the Deputy Speaker on your re-election. I wish also to pay tribute to our colleagues in the ruling party despite their minority.


Mr Sichinga: We congratulate you and I wish to add my voice in welcoming you. We also know, Sir, that this obviously adds a breath of fresh air. But we also hope that there will be new ideas to come round.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: Especially that Hon. Mpombo who has just spoken, starts by talking about reconciliation and then goes to war.


Mr Sichinga: So, Mr Speaker, I am left with no choice, but to react to what he has just said to us.


Mr Sichinga: I want to say that the speech by the President was an excellent piece of effort to try and bring about a national agenda for Zambia. We congratulate President Mwanawasa and wish him very well. In fact, we go a step further than that, we welcome him into the ranks of the UPND fold because he quietly and nicely adopted exactly what we have been saying and finally, we are seeing that the MMD can see the light that we have been talking about.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: Hon. Members, we can only implore you, especially in the Front and Middle benches, please, come to us and ask on how to do this, in terms of implementation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: For exactly that reason, Mr Speaker, we are extremely keen to make sure that this time around, as the President said, we make a success of trying to put Zambia back on where it belongs on a pedestal. 

So, I want to say, on behalf of the Opposition, that we stand ready to give you impeccable advice, but learn to ask and not to act like your predecessors did. That is why they messed up the way they did and that is why Zambia is in the mess in which it is right now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: That is why we have sent Hon. Dr Sondashi to come and help there!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the President touched on the issues of Parliamentary Reforms. I wish to endorse that speech very much. These hon. Members here need facilities when they do not even have offices at Parliament, let alone in their constituencies. I do not know how else they can be effective in their work. Therefore, we look forward to real seriousness and real business of implementation. The old saying is that, “The taste of the pudding is in its eating”. And therefore, we want to taste this postdated cheque that Hon. Shepande was talking about, that let it be honoured on the due date and the due date is very soon. And I am looking forward to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presenting his Budget Speech on Friday, which will now add flesh to the skeleton that President Mwanawasa has given to this country. 

We also want to emphasise the need for accessibility by members of the general public to reach out to us their Members of Parliament. We are pleading that the issues of restrictions and accessibility to Members of Parliament both at the motel and here in the Parliament precincts should be enhanced very quickly. 

That means the Executive must help us with facilities of offices as quickly as possible. And I am sure that my colleagues, who were here before, will attest to this. And I am pleased that the Leader of the House is very much aware of the need for these facilities as quickly as possible.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about decentralisation and devolution of power. Many Members, who were in this House before, will remember that several good recommendations were made to the Executive. In fact, we do not need to say any more. All we need to do is to collect all the reports of the previous Committees of this very House and table them here. If we can implement even half of them, I can assure you that Zambia will move forward.

Mr Sibetta: Even on Bahamas.


Mr Sichinga: In, therefore, looking at issues of decentralisation and devolution, I wish the President had also indicated the role of the traditional leaders. What role will they play Vis a vis the DAs? We in the Opposition insist that the role of the District Administrators is no more and we can achieve tremendous savings. And when we bring the Budget, we are looking forward to that saving. Last year, there was K10.1 billion to be expended on the District Administrators. I am looking forward to using that money on agriculture.

Mr Speaker, I wish that message on decentralisation and devolution of power had also indicated the role of Members of Parliament in the new dispensation, because on one hand, Members of Parliament are expected to be development agents. That is the main reason the electorate bring us to the House. The issue of us enacting laws is almost transparent to them. That is the lesser part as far as they are concerned and, therefore, we look forward to concrete measures and steps that will be shown in both the Budget and subsequent actions by the MMD Government, especially the Executive in implementing these recommendations. We are neither interested nor impressed with the rhetoric that does not translate into practical solutions.

Mr Speaker, I, now, want to move on to economics. The President ably touched on the issue of sustained and high economic growth. One of the issues that we have suffered from is the inaccuracies and uncertainties that previous Ministers of Finance have brought into this House. It was not true that the inflation rate was at 18 per cent last year. All of us here, including the Members of the MMD know that it was not 18 per cent, but much higher. We are not interested in playing around with statistics. We want the things that touch the lives of our people, things that can raise them from poverty into a different dispensation. That is what we are looking for.

Mr Speaker, there will be no benefit from structural adjustments unless such structural adjustments also mean that there is an adjustment in the households of our citizens. I am talking about an upward adjustment and not the downward adjustment we have seen over the last ten years under the MMD Government.

Mr Speaker, interest rates remain very high. Above 60 per cent and I would like to tell you that there is no development that will occur in this country and no investment will take place at interest rates in excess of 60 per cent. So, we agree with the President on these issues. The challenge is to you, Hon. Mpombo; to come to this House not to ask about your colleagues and what they will do, but what you as a Government collectively will do for this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Sichinga: As far as we are concerned, Sir, we have already indicated our willingness to offer quality advice, including the one I am giving on the Floor of the House, right now.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the foreign debt regime for Zambia is excruciating. It is oppressive. I would like to say that the issue of qualifying to HIPC is not an issue to be proud of. Zambia should be ashamed that we qualify to be a most highly indebted poor country. It is not a qualification to be proud of. We attribute this to our colleagues in the MMD. They are the ones who have created the situation. 

Sir, I would like to explain to our colleagues who are new in this House that we do not bring to this House any international agreements. We do not bring to this House any loans we have obtained and we know that the practice in the Commonwealth, as has been amply indicated in the seminars we had in this House, is for loan agreements and treaties to be brought to this House so that we can debate them.

Sir, this ‘brinkmanship’ and ‘one upmanship’ of saying the Constitution is silent and, therefore, we should not talk about it, is nonsense and we cannot allow that. I withdraw the phrase.


Mr Sichinga: It is not correct. We would like to make sure that this particular Executive or Government is more forthright and honest in their dealings and, therefore, if they have nothing to hide, they should bring to this House all the international agreements so that Members of Parliament can help to endorse them. That, Sir, is the kind of transparency and the kind of openness that we are looking for.

Mr Speaker, we expect that the poverty levels of 80 per cent will be reduced to 8 per cent. Without that, I totally endorse the calls of other Members of Parliament to declare the hunger situation a disaster situation in our country. If we do not do that and remember in many parts of the country there is drought right now, it means that the hunger situation we have, now, will continue into 2003, despite that we have a lot of water. The Kariba Dam has been opened with plenty of water washing down and going to cause havoc and floods in Mozambique. That water should be trapped and put into canals back into Southern Province and Mkushi. That is the practical implication of what the President was saying in his speech. For that reason, we endorse his emphasis. Now, we challenge our colleagues to bring practical solutions to dealing with that situation.

Mr Speaker, we have said that we shall do our part in giving you quality advice, but not if you become arrogant and refuse to come and ask, because then you will take responsibility. The President was right. To support the small-scale farmers is extremely important because, as hon. Members know, generally speaking, 60 per cent of our agricultural production comes from small-scale farmers. If we support them and provide floor prices, as Hon. Tetamashimba said, they are likely to grow more. We, therefore, endorse President Mwanawasa’s statement that he would rather subsidise production than consumption. I totally agree with that and I am sure that Members of the Opposition here totally agree with that situation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: For that reason, Sir, it is very important that the Kafue Estate be totally supported because from Kafue, we will be able to produce fertiliser that the agricultural sector requires. Much more so, Kafue is a point of consumption for cotton that will be grown. For that reason, I would like to commend the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, my good friend, Hon. Namuyamba, the Member for Itezhi-tezhi, for having endorsed my call on him. And if that is the kind of Government we are going to have, then you can rest assured of our fullest support.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: I am, therefore, commending his reaction. For that reason, I would like to pay tribute to the people of Kafue who recognised that there was something that their new Member of Parliament could contribute.

Mr Mumba: From Isoka?

Mr Sichinga: This is a reflection that Hon. Mumba, Minister of Tourism, in fact, recognises my nationality. I am a national leader unlike him who could only go back into Petauke to seek refuge from his own people. 


Mr Sichinga: But I transcend the whole of Zambia. My people are from Isoka to Kalabo and from Kaputa right through to Livingstone. That, Sir, is the kind of quality that we have on this side of the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the President touched on the issue of animal husbandry. This issue is crucial for those of us from Western Province, Eastern Province and Isoka East and, indeed, some of the people from Mbala where they came to steal some animals from Isoka East to go and invest in their area. But because of that, those ones that they collected do not have any diseases, but in many other areas, there is a lot of disease. For that reason, I commend the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives who has now graduated from Mr Cow-Dung into Mr Integrity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Sichinga: He should just remember that in Kafue Constituency, we have a research place called Balmoral Animal Research Station, which, in fact, produces vaccines for those animals.

Hon. Minister, just remember that the Balmoral Animal Research Station is within my constituency and I will offer you some information on what we can do together to bring about a changed situation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Yellow card!

Mr Sichinga: Many members who are new to the House get scared when they see the yellow card. For those of us on the opposition side, as soon as they sit down, another Member from here will take up where I will stop.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, despite the proposals that the President mentioned, there is need for us to have, in the Budget, a prioritisation of our requirements because, as Hon. Dipak Patel rightly pointed out, the Government does not have much in terms of resources. You have barely about K200 billion to play around with on the current account. Therefore, we must provide money where it pays us the most.

I, therefore, urge hon. Members not to take lightly what I am giving to you. This is valuable information, which many other people pay me for as a consultant. So, listen to me very carefully.


Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, commerce, trade and industry is crucial. The industries of Zambia are not only on their knees, but also on their bellies. The whole manufacturing sector, quite frankly, is not there any more. Because of rushed privatisation, which we warned you about in this House, we have a messy situation in industry and commerce. We want to say that unless there is a reduction in tariffs and deliberate measures to try and bring about development in this area, we will not see these industries brought to a competitive level so that they can produce sufficient goods to compete not only on the FTA Market, but in others as well as in the AGOA arrangement.

The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry seems to have excused himself from the House, I wanted him to listen and listen well.

Mr Speaker, we want to say that one point of great importance, which missed in the President’s Speech, was the issue of review of the Constitution. We want a new Constitution that safeguards not only the MMD rights, but also the rights of the Opposition. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: The performance of the Electoral Commission was abysmal and we do not want a repetition of that kind of performance at all. Therefore, we want a clear statement from the Government on what they are going to do in the case of the electoral changes, as well as the Constitution.

Let me, lastly, say, Mr Speaker, we want to know about the OAU and the Millennium Village. Who owns it? The hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services was on record last year as stating that this had been sold. We want him to come to this House with a ministerial statement to tell us who owns the OAU Millennium Village on which public funds we talked about in this House were expended. We want to know whom these were sold to.

Mr Mwaanga: Lay it on the Table!

Mr Sichinga: We will lay it on the Table because we believe in integrity. People who issue statements must also be able to stand by them. That is the kind of Government we are looking for.

Mr Speaker, Grade 7 education is unacceptable. A Grade 7 child is between the ages of twelve and fourteen. What are you going to do with that child? I want to bring to the attention of this House that the progression rate from Grade 7 to Grade 8 is only twenty one per cent. It means that only twenty-one children out of every hundred make it further.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member’s time is up.

Mr Sichinga: I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Muliokela): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add to the voices of hon. Members who have already contributed to the debate on this motion.

Sir, I would firstly like to heartily congratulate His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, His Honour the Vice-President and all of you hon. Members of this august House both from the ruling and the opposition parties on emerging victorious during the just ended 2001 tripartite elections which were extremely competitive and challenging in nature.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: Mr Speaker, this is a clear manifestation of the trust and confidence the people of our constituencies have in us believing that we are going to fulfil and deliver urgently, the required social and economic services which we promised them during our campaigns.

Mr Sibetta interjected.


Mr Muliokela: Mr Speaker, I further wish to congratulate you and your Deputy …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Only one Member of Parliament is given the Floor. The noise coming from that corner is a bad example, especially to our new hon. Members.

Will you, please, continue.

Mr Muliokela: Mr Speaker, I was saying that I further wish to congratulate you and your deputy on your re-election to the very important offices of Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly, respectively. Your office calls for total loyalty, self-discipline, non-partisanship, and high level of maturity, firmness with fairness and also immense experience in Parliamentary matters.

Sir, I am happy to note that, on behalf of my constituency, you have these qualities, which is a blessing to our great nation. Considering the composition of the Members of this august House during this session, I am sure that with you in the Chair, both the ruling and the Opposition Members will feel at home whilst in this House.

Mr Speaker, it is also a rare opportunity for us who are new Members of this Parliament to seize every opportunity from your experience to learn, very quickly, our duties in this House for the betterment of the Zambian people.

Sir, allow me also to thank you for organising a very successful Post-Election Seminar in conjunction with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) for Members of Parliament. That seminar helped to heal a number of hearts, which needed answers to some issues after our general elections. We have, now, come out as one group, I hope.

Mr Speaker, I further wish to thank the immediate former President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr F. T. J. Chiluba, for maintaining peace and unity in Zambia …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: … and for laying strong foundation on which our New Deal administration by our new Republican President, His Excellency Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, will build.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: With unity of purpose and if we do not allow our political affiliations to become a dividing force in our future debates, this House will be capable of bringing socio-economic and political prosperity to our great nation, Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to extend my gratitude to all the people of Chililabombwe Constituency, regardless of their political affiliations, for giving our President Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, State Counsel; Councillors and myself an overwhelming victory during the just ended tripartite elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: Sir, with God, whom I so much trust, and their support, I promise the people of Chililabombwe Constituency that I am not going to let them down and they will not regret their action because they made a good choice.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: In concluding my thanks, Sir, I wish to salute all the Zambians for conducting themselves peacefully, maturely and lovingly before, during and after the general elections, which is a practical and true testimony that God is in total control of the affairs of our nation.

Mr Speaker, it is my sincere hope that hon. Members of this House do not only share with me this sense of gratitude and appreciation, but shall emulate our electorates’ high level of patriotism. Therefore, advocating violence or resorting to physical confrontation as a means of political expression when the going becomes tough should be a thing of the past.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: It is a proven fact that those who preach violence, arrogance, intolerance and harbour political scores to settle will never win elections in Zambia because Zambians treasure peace, stability and unit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: Mr Speaker, allow me to refer to our beloved President’s brilliant and inspiring opening speech to this august House. In his speech, he outlined the Movement for Multi-party Democracy Government’s great achievements and failures in the last ten years in office. He also ably unveiled a very vigorous mission statement, which aimed at improving the living standards of our electorate. Indeed, a strong foundation has been put in place for the New Deal to take off and rise to greater heights.

Mr Speaker, a Lozi proverb says, ‘munwana ulimumwi au tubi nda’.


Mr Muliokela: In Bemba, we say: ‘umunwe umo, tausala nda’.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namakando: What about in Tonga?

Mr Muliokela: They do not have that proverb in Tonga.


Mr Muliokela: This means that one finger cannot crush lice.

Mr Speaker, neither His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia can single-handedly develop this country nor can outside handouts in whatever form bring wonders to the economy of our mother Zambia. We need everybody to be involved, young and old to fully participate in the affairs of this nation. We have to revisit our negative attitudes towards work. We need, as the first task, to inculcate the spirit of self-motivation and hard work both in public and private sectors of our economy, if the meaningful development in the economy and social sector is to be achieved.

Mr Speaker, unit of purpose should begin from these four walls of this august House by all honourable and respected Members of Parliament who are the well-serviced and oiled vehicles for development change. Indeed, we are all men and women of substance. What is only needed is teamwork. We should together rise above petty politics and affiliations and turn all our abundant untapped natural resources into food, shelter and cloth for the Zambian people. Zambians are no longer interested in armchair critics and finger- pointing, but they are in dire need of development.

Mr Speaker, I am a representative of a vast and densely populated urban and peri-urban constituency, which covers the whole Chililabombwe District. The people of Chililabombwe District have no hospital. There is only one hospital, which is called Konkola Mine Hospital and was privatised together with Konkola Mine and 10 per cent of the population who happen to be KCM employees and their immediate families and registered dependants.

Mr Speaker, for the information of the House, Chililabombwe District is the only highly densely populated municipality in Zambia without a district hospital. The majority of the people cross into the Democratic Republic of Congo for medical and health services. The people of Chililabombwe are willing and prepared to help themselves, but what we are asking for is support from the Government and well-wishers. 

Sir, Kasumbalesa Border Post is the heart of this great country in terms of …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! You are a Member of the Executive.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The statements you are talking about of pleading to the Government, you are pleading to yourself. Please, skip that.


Mr Muliokela: Sir, I was saying that the people of Chililabombwe are very thankful to the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Muliokela: The people of Chililabombwe are on their knees wholeheartedly thanking the President of the Republic of Zambia and the Government for rejecting Anglo-American Corporation’s option of closing Konkola Mines.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muliokela: Lastly, I wish to extend my invitation to investors to come to Chililabombwe and invest in the hotel industry. But those who want to invest must be serious investors and not those who will abandon us at the earliest signs of financial difficulties.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you for permitting me to deliver my maiden speech during this First Session of the Ninth National Assembly. I wish to congratulate you and, indeed, your Deputy for winning …

Mr Sibetta: He is the Deputy.

Mr Hachipuka: …the recent elections held in the Chamber.


Mr Hachipuka: He is elevated now.

I am sure that both of us are happy that for the first time in the history of this Parliament, the House was subjected to a choice between candidates. I trust that your winning had God’s hand in which case, you should be able to drive this unusually democratically balanced Parliament to greater heights.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Allow me, Sir, to also take this opportunity to thank my party President, Mr Anderson Mazoka, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: … for having formed the United Party for National Development (UPND) and, thereafter, for providing ably the leadership to our party. I wish to congratulate him because without the creation of UPND and the subsequent pressure brought on the ruling party by our party, this Parliament and, indeed, this country would still to this day, be a one-party democracy as evidenced by the previous composition in Parliament of 138 MMD Members to twenty Opposition Members.

I wish to convey a special message to my party President …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hachipuka: Yes.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is allowed. Continue.

Mr Hachipuka: Please, continue to press on with the fight for a better and democratic Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Admittedly, everybody in this Chamber came through a party organ. But what we should not forget is that when you are campaigning on various political party tickets, you were asking them to sponsor you in order to be placed on a conveyor belt to bring you to this House. That conveyor belt has now done its job. You are all here as Members of the National Assembly. The most important word there is ‘National.’ You are assembling to serve the nation. After each one of you took an oath of allegiance, you automatically became Members of Parliament, a tag you are going to use at the end of your name until this Parliament is dissolved. So, please, do not discuss party politics in this Chamber. Discuss national issues. There is only one person who can be referred to and, that is, the President of the Republic of Zambia. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Party presidents, we do not mind; you can praise them when you walk out of this Chamber. As far as this Chamber is concerned, you are not members of MMD, UPND or Heritage, but you are members of the National Assembly. You are Members of Parliament and you have to discuss issues along those lines.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, history has a way of repeating itself. In that case, I will proceed in a different fashion because I am an experienced Member of Parliament to meet with your aspirations. 

However, I have another message of congratulations, which will go to my people in Southern Province. I hope in doing so, I will not be contravening the parliamentary rules.

Dr Machungwa: There you are right.

Mr Hachipuka: My message to the people of Southern Province is that I thank them for their consistency. In 1991, they gave the MMD nineteen parliamentary seats. Again in 1996, the same number was given to the same party. I am sure my people believed that they would receive a corresponding fair share of the national cake. This was never done. As a result, they have now given UPND eighteen seats out of nineteen because of the manifesto as compared to what is currently obtaining on the ground. This, surely, should be a message to those in the ruling party that the national cake is not being evenly distributed. Poverty has become deep-rooted in our province. Hunger has become the order of the day. Some using hoes due to lack of cattle has become the norm. Even those from our province who have been in State House kitchen cabinets are forever being haunted by their creditors and cannot even afford to eat at Nandos like their counterparts from other provinces.


Mr Hachipuka: My people continue to ask: who then, Emmanuel Hachipuka, is there in Lusaka to ensure that our share of the spoils is destined for the province? I hope the New Deal administration will ensure equity in wealth and opportunity distribution among provinces.

Another special message is to my friends in my constituency, that is, Mbabala. For many years, including the years when you gave MMD an MP who even served as a hon. Minister, you have been marginalised. The fertiliser distribution, even when delivered late and inadequate, has been partisan. Worse still, this has been given to those households with inadequate security and no track record for farming. It has been given to cadres with no necessary security or, indeed, knowledge to farm. As a result, loan recoveries have not been possible. Because of this, we now have no grain or other forms of food to live on. The harvest even for this year is going to be poor as a result of drought and lack of fertiliser in the hands of competent farmers.

Your roads have not been graded for years. In the run-up to December 2001 elections, the Pemba to Mapanza Road was graded up to Mutama River, which is the boundary with Pemba Constituency. The Pemba/Mutama part was in the constituency held by the ruling party. The Choma/Mapanza Road was also graded from Choma to Mbabala Rural Centre. This is the boundary between Choma and Mbabala constituencies. Again, this is because Choma Constituency was in the hands of the ruling party. The Mbabala Rural Centre to Macha turn-off and to Macha was last graded when former President Chiluba visited Macha Mission during the February 2000 by-elections, and these are facts.

Perhaps, I should now turn to the famous Choma/Namwala Road, which you were promised for tarmac. Only the distance to the boundary with Mbabala Constituency on the Namwala side has been tarmarked. Hon.Mwaanga, hear me out. This is where you and I come from. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Hachipuka: The project came to a stand still in the fiscal year 1999. There has been no progress on site since then and yet in the year 2000, K4 billion was voted for when K6.25 billion was spent as per Yellow Book of that year. In the year 2001, K5 billion was voted for and the expenditure is well in excess of K5 billion. An amount, therefore, in excess of K10 billion has been allocated by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and transferred to Livingstone in the last two years which is the provincial headquarters. This amount has been spent on their road, but not a single centimetre of tarmac has been done in the last two years. I am sure our people want to know where this money has gone.

Mr Tetamashimba: Hon. Mpombo is listening.

Mr Hachipuka: The Constituency Development Fund released by the Government in November 2000 and has been stolen by named people is a matter of great concern for us in the Mbabala Constituency. These and many other misappropriations have robbed the constituency of any form of development due to irresponsible leadership. Together we should strive, my constituency-mates, to trace the whereabouts of the K10 billion released for the Namwala/Choma Road and bring to book those responsible not only for the road funds, but for the Constituency Development Fund as well. We will work hard. Even if we have to sell our cattle to find out who has eaten the K10 billion, we will do that.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hachipuka: Yes, you cannot take it and get away with it. What is the pleasure in it? Mr Speaker, there are very few that were here last year and I was beginning to get encouraged that, perhaps, they are different. You can listen to them.


Mr Hachipuka: The hunger currently being experienced and yet to be suffered in the coming year is a source of great concern to all of us. I hope the ruling party will take seriously steps to address this issue.

Mr Speaker, to my fellow countrymen and women at large, we now have several alien vices to eradicate such as stealing chunks of money from our people from institutions entrusted to us by our people, drug trafficking, corruption, cheating or lying to our people and last but not the least HIV/AIDS. These are all serious alien events that have befallen our country. These and many more vices have resulted in the high levels of poverty, ill- health and deaths of our people. As a result of these vices, we are ill-equipped to even handle the hunger imposed on our people by drought last year and this year.

How, then, Sir, can you and I sit in this House sharing spoils without a twitch? Where is our conscience?

Zambia at independence had a few O’level holders and graduates. Dr Kenneth Kaunda and his United National Independence Party (UINP) invested in the field of education.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Most of us are products of this noble and deliberate effort, even His Honour the Vice-President.


Mr Hachipuka: This investment has gone up in flames due to poor education, health and management policies of the subsequent Government. The advent of fee paying schools, poor quality of education provided by poorly paid teachers, lack of medicines in hospitals and poor management policies applied to medical institutions resulted in a mass exodus of our indigenous medical personnel. Now, the increase in HIV/AIDS related cases have wiped out Kaunda’s investment in manpower. That is a fact.

As I said earlier on, 72 per cent of the Zambian people wanted change in the leadership of our country.

Mr Sibetta: Correct!

Mr Hachipuka: The question I ask, Sir, is whether God did not hear them.

 Perhaps, he did as evidenced by the contents of the speech for the official opening of Parliament by the Republican President who I now note wish to be referred to as his Excellency Mr Levy P. Mwanawasa, SC.

 I want to join those that congratulated him on the speech. It is a good speech that has covered his intentions in all fields of human endeavours. It is a good start. But the question I ask is whether this document and policies/actions therein are fully supported by his party.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hachipuka: I am not very sure because the speech that the former President made at  Mulungushi International Conference was the opposite. You cannot deny that.


Mr. Hachipuka: The question I ask is whether the document the President delivered really represents the MMD majority conscience.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Kazala-Laski: That is why we are here.

Mr Hachipuka: The answer, Sir, maybe provided to the Zambian people in the years to come and it is what they do and not what the President has said. He has asked all of us to contribute towards changing the direction of the country. Unfortunately, we as Opposition do not have the keys, but the Government has the keys.

Mr Nsanda: And you will never have.

Mr Hachipuka: I do not care whether I do not because I want you to understand that for me, as long as you can fear to do the wrong things in my presence that is good enough.


Mr Hachipuka: His Excellency Mr Levy P.  Mwanawasa has rekindled the hope of the average Zambians through his speech. He has also substantially rekindled UPND manifesto. The issue, my fellow countrymen, is not who is at State House or in Government, but about those in positions doing well for our people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: The onus for implementation lies, for now, with the MMD through their New Deal administration. Failure to deliver these promises shall this time round clearly show the MMD and its New Deal administration’s incapacity, perhaps, to deliver. This is a test and the test is what the President has told you to do and the question is: have you got the capacity to deliver?

Hon. Government Members: Of course!

Mr Hachipuka: I urge you all in this House who have authority to superintend in the affairs of our nation, to remember that our people are watching to see if the change they wanted can still be provided through good governance. God bless this Parliament and its Government and, indeed, the nation at large.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Shumina (Mangango): Mr Speaker, I rise on a very rare occasion to stand once more after political battles in this august House to seriously look at issues pertaining to the welfare of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I am at pains to start praising and holding high esteem seriously considering the few events that have happened in this country, firstly, because experience has taught us that ten years along the line we had beautiful statements made on the Floor of this House by hon. Cabinet Ministers, even the President. But the bottom line of the results according to what is on the ground has been disastrous …

Mr Patel: Hanjika!

Mr Shumina: Therefore, Sir, I look at the President’s Speech like two groups of people, one listening to the radio of a given match and the other one watching the team playing. In both instances, you have people commenting; the other one is a radio commentator, while the other is a television commentator. The analysis, understanding and the foresight of that game, in my humble view, will be totally different.

Sir, if, possibly, I can borrow the words of Fidel Castro when he said, and I quote,   ‘As for me you can colour me any colour, you can call me any name as long as you allow me speak my mind.’

Mr Speaker: …

Mr Kavindele: Where is it?

Mr Shumina: I can give you the book. I come from intellectual background.


Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech tried as much as possible to give hope to the people of Zambia, but looking at it critically, it has a lot of disparities and we hope in due course as he addresses the nation, he will be able to put substance and foresight he was trying to set for the people of Zambia.

When I went through the speech, the President did not talk about the House of Chiefs. Now, Sir, the House of Chiefs is cardinal to this nation, no politician has a people. It is our traditional leaders who have a people. History has it that when this country was properly run by Chiefs, we had better facilities for the people of Zambia as compared to the time when politicians took over leadership.

For example, Sir, the trees that have been depleted in Western Province within ten years, were under the custodian of the Barotse Royal Establishment. If you go to Kaoma District, you will not find one mukwa tree in a radius of 150 kilometres. This is a fact and whether you like it or not, we are saying the traditional leadership had minded the natural resources of Zambia better than we politicians have done. The point, Sir, is not to murmur, but to go back to Cabinet and make sure that something is done in this regard.

Mr Speaker, the second point that I want to emphasise is the Land Act. In the Western Province, and I think in other provinces where we have Paramount Chiefs in the reasonable sense of the word ‘Chief’ not like the Tonga Chiefs …


Mr Shumina: …we would like this Government to review the Land Act and give authority on land matters to the owners of the land. We want our Chiefs to look after our land and our natural resources. We want to be partners with the Government in looking after these resources. Mr Speaker, for the people of the Western Province, as long as you do not address this issue of land, in the next elections, mucha munosi daddy, translated, you eat alone daddy, MMD, you will get zero from the Western Province.


Mr Shumina: So, this is a serious issue. It is not an issue that you put in your cupboards. You should seriously look at the question of the Land Act. It is long overdue, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, when I looked at the President’s Speech, I think he spent one third of the whole time discussing agriculture. Yes, like Mr Mukupa once said, God put our tummies in front so that we would not forget them. So, it is good to talk about agriculture, but as long as you are not serious and you copy from the opposition parties’ manifestoes on agriculture, this policy will fail again. In 1997, when I spoke on agriculture - I can see some Members of the Front Bench who were there, who were so angry, but five years later, they are failing and people are queuing for mealie meal. 

Mr Speaker, it is very embarrassing for the Government, according to the President’s Speech, to allege that they are going to set up the authority and register farmers. How can you register mouths? You do not need to register us; you have to give us inputs. Do you understand? You cannot register all farmers because even some of us here are interested in farming. So, it is important to make sure that the MMD Government seriously looks at the issue of agriculture, not in the perspective that His Excellency the President was portraying. Like I said, two groups watching, others listen, but the same game. So, if you do not pay attention, Hon. Sondashi, things will not work properly. 

The third point, Mr Speaker, is on the rule of law. Mr Speaker, the rule of law in this country has double standards. When it is Nawakwi or Patel, the police are very alert and all the articles are in order, but when it is other people, the police grow heavy legs and cannot walk.

Mr Patel: Chairman Mao.

Mr Shumina: We are saying, in the interest of the nation, let us be balanced, if all of us believe in this New Deal. As Zambians we should work together to build this country. 

Mr Speaker, the other point is the office of the ‘Destructive Administrator’ - District Administrator. I want to share with this House that the office of the District Administrator was a result of the third term. The third term is gone.  Dr Chiluba is no longer in State House. He failed because of FDD.


Mr Shumina: So, the District Administrators we have in this country are party cadres and our law does not allow civil servants to be district youth chairmen and District Administrators. So, the New Deal Government should make sure that when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes to address us on Friday, the Yellow Book should not carter for District Administrators. Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, if our New Deal Government is going to bring District Administrators, then they are not serious and we shall remind them that they are not serious and this budget will begin with skirmishes. So, the issue of the ‘District Destroyer,’ the DA, should be taken seriously.

Mr Speaker, we have a problem with HIPC. I will not speak long on HIPC. I just want to mention that we cannot be proud of being a highly indebted impoverished country. We cannot go round and say now we are bringing money. Unfortunately, the district administrators are, actually, using the same funds that have come as a result of the misery of the people of Zambia as campaign money for the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shumina: We should not allow this, Mr Speaker. It is not in the interest of this nation, or of this Government and certainly not in our interest.

Mr Speaker, I think I should end by looking at the Western Province. The Western Province has been neglected for the past ten years. It takes us ten hours to drive from Lusaka to Mongu, instead of five hours because of the poor road. The hon. Minister of Communications and Transport should go and check at CR bus station and see the buses that go to the Copperbelt and Southern provinces and compare with those that go to the Western Province. You do not need to go to Mongu to know that the road is bad. Even the fares now to Mongu have gone up by almost 100 per cent. 

The Western Province has a lot of good trees, but they have since been cut down. The people of the Western Province have remained empty-handed. The Western Province has a lot of fish. A lot of buses loaded with fish come to Lusaka everyday. Worse still, Mr Speaker, it looks like there is a syndicate between tycoons in Lusaka and Zambeef. We cannot now sell live animals to Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces because of Zambeef. The price that is given is very low. Therefore, we are appealing to the line ministry to seriously look into the issue of Zambeef versus the people of Western Province.

Mr Speaker, finally, I said last time that Ministers from Western Province should work hard; otherwise they will not come back. One of them stood up and said, Hon. Shumina was inciting the people of Western Province. Look! When they are hungry, they are hungry. By the way, where are those Ministers now? You can see, not even one of them is here.

Mr Kavindele: Mabenga is here.

Mr Shumina: Hon. Mabenga was not a Minister at that time. Leave my brother alone.

So, I hope we shall seriously address these issues. 

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I do not think you want me to wind up debate. We are supposed to knock off at 2000 hours.

Hon. Opposition Members: MMD!



The Vice-President (Mr Kavindele): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1747 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 27th February, 2002.