Debates-Thursday, 25th July, 2002

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE NINTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 25th July, 2002

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

DRESS CODE

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the public, through this announcement, that in accordance with the Parliamentary Reforms, now, underway, the dress code for members of the public who come to attend the sittings of the House has been relaxed as follows:

(a) Other than on the Official Opening of Parliament and on the National Budget day, members of the public will be allowed to wear casual but smart attire; and

(b) formal wear will be required on the Official Opening of Parliament and on the Budget day.

This is the resolution of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services that the Committee made on 8th May, 2002. This measure is designed to encourage members of the public to frequent the sittings of the House or visit Parliament when the House is in recess.

The Committee, however, has determined that casual/smart dress excludes jeans, shorts, round neck T-shirts and, for the time being, long pairs of trousers for female visitors. Attire depicting party emblems or designs is also excluded.

In order to facilitate public attendance of sittings of the House and of the Committees of the House, there will be no need for prior consent to attend parliamentary sittings. Members of the public will still be expected, however, to
undergo security screenings prior to entry into Parliamentary
precincts.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

QUESTIONS

Mr Speaker: Before I call on the hon. Member for Lusaka Central, I would like to inform the House that effective today, we are going to deal with Questions for Oral Answer in accordance with the procedure that I guided the House upon two days ago. Obviously, a question will be posed and the hon. Minister responsible will answer, but the House is required to pay attention to the answer as it is being read out.

Normally, but not always, the questioner is given one opportunity for a supplementary question. That question will also be answered.

Sometimes, but not always, other hon. Members may join in if they wish to ask relevant questions on the reply that would have been given by the hon. Minister concerned. Such supplementary questions shall be relevant to the subject matter of the question. Irrelevant issues will be excluded and ignored. Hon. Members who wish to put a similar question to the one on the Order Paper are encouraged to do so by submitting their draft question in the normal manner to the Clerk of the National Assembly.

Will the hon. Member for Lusaka Central ask his question.

INDEPENDENT BROADCASTING AUTHORITY

51. Mr Patel (Lusaka Central) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services when an independent broadcasting authority would be established.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Chipili): Mr Speaker, the establishment of an independent broadcasting authority is dependent upon an amendment or repeal of the ZNBC Act, as well as the Radio Communication Act because an independent broadcasting
authority will fulfill the functions currently being carried out under the ZNBC Act.

The ministry has already submitted a Cabinet memorandum seeking approval of the amendment or repeal of the two Acts so as to pave way for the establishment of the authority. This has been done in collaboration with the Ministry of Communications and Transport that administers the Radio Communications Act

The intention of the Government is to establish the independent broadcasting authority which shall be a body corporate with perpetual succession and a common seal, capable of suing and of being sued in its corporate name and power, subject to the provisions of the Act. To do all such acts as a body corporate it may by law do or perform and as are necessary for or incidental to the carrying out of its functions and powers under the Act.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister, please, guide the House as to when he anticipates such legislation to be brought before this House.

Mr Chipili: Mr Speaker, fairly soon, though my ministry is not the only player. There is the Ministry of Transport and Communications and the Ministry of Legal Affairs that have to play a part in the enactment or repeal of such laws.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichinga (Kafue): Mr Speaker, from the response given by the hon. Minister, could he indicate whether other stakeholders, who are interested in the repeal of this law, have been consulted and whether they have agreed with the contents of the proposed amendment.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Zimba): Mr Speaker, at this stage the answer has been
given to submit memorandum to Cabinet. Once that is done, going to the actual business is when all stakeholders’ submissions will be taken into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Silwamba (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that as soon as he receives Cabinet approval, he will bring the legislation to the House.

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, that is the procedure.

I thank you, Sir.

ROAD CONSTRUCTION

52. Mr L. L. Phiri (Chipangali) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the construction of the following would be completed:

(i) the portion of the Great East Road from Nyimba to Mwami Border Post; and

(ii) Chipata/Lundazi Road.

(b) how much was spent to rehabilitate the Great East Road from Lusaka to Nyimba;

(d) why the contract with Astaldi Contractors for the rehabilitation of the Great East Road was terminated.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Katema): Mr Speaker, rehabilitation plans are underway to rehabilitate the road between Nyimba and Mwami Border. My ministry has commissioned a private consultant to carry out a survey, design and prepare the tender documents for the rehabilitation of the Nyimba /Mwami border road.

The consultant has nearly finished the assignment. However, the consultant will not release the final design report unless the Government settles the outstanding amount of K1.2 billion. The consultant has not been paid anything to date.

The Africa Development Bank has shown willingness to finance the full rehabilitation of the road once the design has been finalised.

In the meantime, resealing has been carried out between Nyimba and Petauke. Patching has also been done between Petauke and Chipata. It is hoped that resealing will be extended to cover the rest of the road while awaiting full rehabilitation. The rehabilitation of the Nyimba/Petauke/Mwami Border road has been included in the ROADSIP

phase II.

As regards the Chipata/Lundazi Road rehabilitation, Mr Speaker, my ministry has immediate plans to rehabilitate the road between Chipata and Lundazi. The Government will soon commission a private consultant to carry out a feasibility study for the rehabilitation of the road.

The German Government has expressed interest in financing the rehabilitation of the road depending on the outcome of the feasibility study.

The carrying out of the holding maintenance is dependent on the release of funds from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. There is a budget provision of K2.6 billion in the budget meant to cater for the carrying out of a feasibility study and maintenance of the road.

With regard to the Rehabilitation of the Lusaka/Nyimba Road, my ministry has spent a total amount of K21,020,592,000.00 and K18,417,327,000.00 for the full rehabilitation of the road between Lusaka and Luangwa bridge and for holding maintenance between Luangwa bridge and Nyimba respectively.

On the Lusaka/Mwami Border Post, the total budget for the completion of the remaining road shall be known after the consultant who is carrying out the study, has completed his work. However, there is no provision for the rehabilitation of the road in this year’s budget.

Mr Speaker, the contract with Astaldi Contractors for the rehabilitation of the Great East Road was terminated following the lack of funds to continue with the works for the remaining thirty-one kilometres up to the Luangwa Bridge. The funds provided by African Development Bank were not sufficient to complete the remaining thirty-one kilometres of the road. Due to the change in payment conditions being solely in local currency, the contractor was not willing to continue with the works in the absence of the Government assurances for timely payments. In fact, the Government still owes Astaldi an outstanding amount of K1.5 billion for the work done in the year 2000.

The House may also wish to know that the scope of work had increased between the time the project was implemented and the time the budget was made.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, from the answer given, can we guarantee that the patching will be done before the rainy season so that we are not cut off from receiving the fertilisers and relief food.

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, as soon as funds are released from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, we will do the works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’uni (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Deputy Minister of Works and Supply to give us the time frame within which the Ministry of Finance and National

Planning will release the funds. I am saying this because information reaching me is that …

Mr Speaker: Order! You have already asked your question and are, now, debating.

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, since I am not the Minister of Finance and National Planning, I am not in a position to provide an answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Deputy
Minister of Works and Supply tell us how many times he has been to the office of the Minister of Finance and National Planning to source funds to rehabilitate our road.

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, I have been there several times.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

RELIEF FOOD

53. Mr Shumina (Mangango) asked the Vice-President how much relief food has been distributed in the Western Province in 2002, district by district.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mukuka): Mr Speaker, the total amount of relief food distributed to the Western Province in the year 2002 is 1,336 metric tonnes.

The breakdown is as follows:

District Month Quantity in metric tonnes

Kalabo       February   164
           March       164
Sub-total                328

Kaoma January 30
Sub-total 30

Lukulu                             January          40
                                         January/May                                        42
Sub-total          82

Mongu                           February       179
                                       March       179
Sub-total       358

Senanga                         February       153
                                       March       153

Sub-total                  306

Sesheke                          February       101
March       101
Sub total       202

Shangombo       January          30

Grand total                1,336

The House, Mr Speaker, may wish to know whether this total reflects tonnages the Government purchased using its own resources. The Government bought 142 metric tonnes and 1,194 metric tonnes was sourced from our co-operating partners through the World Food Programme,.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shumina (Mangango): Mr Speaker, may I know why Kaoma District received the least number of tonnages when the Government is well aware that for the past ten years it has had problems in supplying agro inputs to Kaoma District.

Mr Mukuka: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President does not only cater for Kaoma, but for all hunger-stricken areas in the entire country.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

Interruptions.

Mr Speaker: Order

Mr Zulu (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, could the Vice-President state whether this distribution of relief food is going to continue in the 2002/2003 harvesting season.

Mr Mukuka: Mr Speaker, the New Deal Administration will continue to make sure that it sends food to all hunger-stricken areas and that means to all provinces in the country.

Thank you, Sir.

Interruptions.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Shepande (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that his Government has no capacity to provide food not only for the starving people of Western Province, but for all the starving people of this country? If he is aware, what measures is he putting in place to ensure that all the starving people have access to relief food?

Mr Mukuka: Mr Speaker, we are not aware.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mukuka: The only good thing is that the Government enjoys good relationships with donor countries and this makes it relatively easy for us to facilitate the distribution of food to all areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, is the Vice-President aware that much of the relief food that is being distributed in the rural areas is actually being sold by those supposed to be distributing it? And if he is aware, what measures is he taking to ensure that the management of the relief food gets to the intended people?

The Vice-President (Mr Kavindele): Mr Speaker, when the Government started this programme of distributing relief food, it was done by Government officials. It was alleged that they were corrupt because they were selling this relief food. And so, we engaged the churches, including World Vision, which is, now, conducting the distribution exercise. When we tried to intervene, we were accused of trying to win the support of the people by giving free food. So, if the churches, which you recommended at the time, are, now, selling this food, then which way? However, we will take it up with the mother bodies of the NGOs and the churches.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapita (Mwinilunga West): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that most of the food that is coming into the country as relief maize is actually Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs) food which may cause a lot of damage to our environment? In that light, what measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that our environment is not destroyed? Further …

Mr Speaker: You have asked your question, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as far as I know the Government has not received any GMO food for relief. It is only this morning that I was in a meeting with the Americans and we were talking about this type of food. They have offered us US$50,000,000 worth of credit to buy American maize. We have told them that as of now we do not have a policy on GMO food. In fact my colleague, the hon. Minister, is, right now, in a meeting with experts and, hopefully, a decision will be made whether to accept the GMO foods or not.

Having said so, Sir, I wish to inform the House that there is a desperate need for food in this country. And the Americans have informed us that the GMO food, which they have, is what they also eat in America.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

The Vice-President: Now, here we have a situation where hungry as we are, we are also in a situation where we believe
that we can find non-GMO food elsewhere. But the money that is available is not for us to buy elsewhere but from America alone. So, I want to see those gentlemen who object to this because we are capable of informing the people that at one point we had an offer of food which was rejected on non-scientific grounds. If I were you, I would wait until we have a proper policy which will affect not only them but us and everybody else. Mr Speaker, this matter of relief food is an extremely serious matter. People are dying because of hunger and, therefore, we have to be very careful.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Liato (Kaoma): Mr Speaker, I still want to go back to the question concerning why we were given the least relief food in Kaoma. Since the Government deals with the whole country and not Kaoma alone, is it the intention of His Honour
the Vice-President’s Office to deliver the least tonnage of relief food to Kaoma this time around when it is available? In addition, knowing very well that the inputs of agriculture have not been given to Kaoma, is it the position that we will be given the least tonnage this time around because you are dealing with many other places?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government does not discriminate when it comes to delivering relief food. For instance, there was a reason why Kalabo had 164 tonnes in that month and Kaoma had only thirty tonnes. It is believed that Kaoma is a very productive area and during the period January, February and March, people not only depend on maize but also some other foods that would have been planted early in September, knowing that Kaoma is a heavy rainfall area. Also, Kabompo and Kasempa rains tend to come much earlier.

Having said that, I wish also to inform the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma that apart from the thirty metric tonnes that were from the Government, there was also maize delivered by the World Food Programme in Kaoma.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether His Honour the Vice President is aware that the District Administrators are interfering in the distribution of relief food.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, District Administrators are, now, civil servants.

Interruptions.

The Vice-President: So, if they are doing that, then that is exactly what they are there for - to assist with the administration of districts and so I am glad to hear that apart from the NGOs, even District Administrators, who are civil servants, are doing this commendable job.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I wonder whether His Honour the Vice President has taken into account the inability of the Government to feed all the people affected by hunger in the country and whether he has considered other measures. In my constituency, Katuba, we have seen that the Government is unable to give everyone food according to their needs. We thought that, maybe, the Government could make maize available at affordable prices so that people can have access to maize, instead of waiting for relief maize which never comes.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as I stand now, we have received 9,000 metric tonnes, which is in Lusaka and that

maize is available for sale to those who are able to afford it. So, it is good news to hear that the people of Katuba do not wish to receive relief maize because they have money to pay for the maize.

Interruptions.

The Vice-President: And I can assure the hon. Member that if he were to see me later, I would show him where the
maize for purchase is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chibanga (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I would like to hear from His Honour the Vice-President what measures he has put in place to help those people who were struck by hunger last year or early this year, and had to walk stretches of sixty kilometres because of lack of roads and impassable areas for vehicles. What measures has the Government put in place to assist those people who cannot walk long distances?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not too sure what he is talking about. He says hungry people walk sixty kilometres to go and get relief maize on impassable roads. Aah! Walking in impassable roads ...

Laughter.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, what I know is that maize is delivered to points nearer to the people in motor vehicles and I am not aware of anyone who has walked sixty kilometres to go and get a bag of mealie meal in impassable roads. I am not aware of that.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to revisit the question of GMOs. His honour the Vice-President is truly speaking like a businessman who wants to corner the market of hungry people on these GMOs.

Mr Speaker, the issue is much more serious ...

The Vice President: Question!

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, this maize is going to bring weeds and destroy our seed industry. What measures is he going to put in place to prevent the destruction of the maize industry? If it is made a GMO, it will not be imported by other countries because we will be blacklisted. What measures have you put in place because you are destroying the country?

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: Order! That was a comment.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of any measures that the Government is undertaking to destroy agriculture or the country by importing GMO. I stated earlier on that we have not even made a decision yet. We are waiting to be advised on the dangers of this by experts in this field.

Interruptions.

The Vice-President: It is not for the hon. Member for Luena to come up and say, we are going to destroy the country because of GMOs. I have stated that we desire to have a scientific analysis on the GMOs …

Interruptions.

The Vice-President: … because this is not the only country that started GMOs. Those countries that are producing GMO food, do it. Even though they eat it, I am not saying that we should also eat it. But we are seeking a proper scientific analysis of the situation from which we will make a decision to import or not to import.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given on the national distribution of food, I would like to know how much tonnage of food has been sent to Choma District and Pemba, in particular.

Also, Sir, I do realise that it is a luxury to read scientific material. On behalf of the Vice-President, there is a document produced by...

Mr Speaker: Order! Raise your question.

Mr Matongo: My question is: what else, besides distributing food, is the Vice-President doing? As I have learnt, he is also in charge of agriculture and should plan for the next planting season.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, in future it will be helpful and I think this is what you were saying before I came in here, if Members of Parliament could restrict themselves to subjects under discussion.

The information which hon. Ministers give in this House is researched. We ask officials to research. Now, asking me about Choma, is an entirely new question.

Mr Speaker, coming back to this subject, it is the wish of the Government to make available agricultural inputs in time. We have, for instance, already started producing fertilisers at the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia and we believe that it will be distributed in good time for the planting season. Imported fertiliser is also on its way and it is hoped that our people will take up the challenge and produce the maize that is needed.

However, apart from the inputs, there is the question of drought. We are not too sure what will happen this year in the Southern Province, for instance. But in the Northern parts of Zambia where I just returned from two days ago, there is a lot of water and land. So, we think that a lot of effort should be put in so that people in the heavy rainfall areas take up this challenge and beat the unpredictable weather conditions that we may face. We can give you all the fertilisers and all the inputs but if it does not rain, then we stand to suffer. But even having said so, even your constituency, Pemba, will still have the inputs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, arising from the reply on the quality of food from America, I am aware that for three years...

Mr Speaker: Order! Question!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President informing the public that he will feed them with the GMO food in spite of the Government’s failure to ratify the protocol on the control of the GMOs?

Mr Patel: Very good.

Mr Speaker: Order! His Honour the Vice-President has gone over this subject several times before. Finally, will you
summarise.

The Vice-President: Sir, I have stated that once we get the scientific analysis for and against the importation of GMO foods, Cabinet will sit. As some of you who were once ministers know how these things are done. When officials produce a document, it is sent to Cabinet. Cabinet will then make a decision based on the technical information that they will have. Until such a time, no law can be made.

I thank you, Sir.

MWEMBESHI EARTH STATION

54. Captain Moono (Chilanga) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) what measures have been put in place to

protect residents of Mwembeshi from radiation waves emanating from the earth station in the area;

(b) what the radius is from the earth station that is safe for human habitation; and

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Nsanda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that there are currently no radiation waves emanating from the earth station that are harmful to residents at Mwembeshi. This is so because the antenna is made in such a way that all radiation waves from the earth station to the satellite are accurately collected and focused on the satellite. Antenna back spillage is negligible.

Furthermore, all equipment dealing with radio frequency radiation has in-built protection mechanisms that detect any radiation leaks due to faults and will automatically shut down the system in the unlikely event that a leakage occurs.

All equipment has radiation hazard alarm that will sound prior to shut down. Extensive radiation tests were conducted at inception and periodically, both around high power amplifiers and below the antenna before passing and commissioning the station.

Owing to the above, the light antennas like the Domestic Satellites System at Lamya House are, now, even built right in town.

Owing to the safety measures highlighted above, human habitation can be as near to the antenna as possible as long as the people themselves are not in line with the signal being radiated from the dish antenna. In this case, the line of sight points upwards to the satellite.

There has been no radiation leakage from the earth station at Mwembeshi since its inception in 1974, for all the antennae on the site were designed to meet International Telecommunications Union’s specifications and recommendations.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport whether he has come across the latest revelation, especially on communications and particularly cell phones, that they tend to cause brain damage. In view of that, if he has come across that …

Mr Speaker: Order! The question is irrelevant. Next question.

EXPECTANT MOTHERS

55. Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Health:

(a) how many cases of mothers giving birth in public places were recorded as at 31st May 2002, province by province; and

(b) how many of these cases were as a result of negligence by medical staff.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has no records of mothers giving birth in public places as at 31st May 2002.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Dr Chituwo: Wait.

Mr Speaker, however, the Ministry of Health received reports prior to that in Lusaka’s Chilenje Clinic and in Mufulira where a spouse witnessed the delivery in a clinic and was not happy about it.

In the case of the Chilenje Clinic incident, investigations were undertaken by the General Nursing Council of Zambia and appropriate action was taken. The two nurses involved were disciplined by their employers, the Lusaka District Health Board, and consequently reassigned to other duties so as to be under strict supervision.

In the Mufulira case, there was no evidence of negligence from the attending staff. Therefore, the case was handled administratively.

Nevertheless, the Ministry of Health has put in place measures to handle deliveries both in the community by trained Traditional Birth Attendants and health institutions by trained midwives.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister give us reasons why nurses in rural areas mistreat mothers by making them stand in queues and why they are not being given priority until such things happen on the queues. It happened in Chipata and I have evidence even if he has not mentioned it. What is the hon. Minister doing to make sure that mothers are given first priority at clinics?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, that is a very useful observation by the hon. Member of Parliament. He is aware that the Ministry of Health has decentralised, giving powers of planning, budgeting and management of patients to the district or local level.

The policy of the Ministry of Health is that we ensure, on a priority basis, as the condition determines, that such patients receive priority. In such local instances, I would ask the hon. Member of Parliament to liaise with the District Health Office or local staff to find out why they are not following laid down procedures.

I thank you, Sir.

Miss Nawakwi (Munali): Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister of Health’s answer that he has trained Traditional Birth Attendants, is he aware that in peri-urban areas like Mtendere, Kanyama, Marapodi, etc. Traditional Birth Attendants are over-worked? They are also not given any support by the Government to attend to expectant mothers. Mothers deliver in very unhealthy conditions. If he is aware, what is his ministry doing to help the many traditional birth attendants that his ministry has trained and left on their own
without any facilities to help the mothers?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the reason the Ministry of Health embarked on training Traditional Birth Attendants was because there was a need at the community level. It is our view that the community must participate and be involved in health care in their community.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is aware of the shortage of staff in our institutions for various reasons. Until such a time that we are able to beef up our staff, this is the safest way we can offer delivery services to our expectant mothers.

It is not a question of leaving the Traditional Birth Attendants (TBAs) on their own. They are under the supervision of the local district health boards who should, and as far as I am aware, conduct workshops and refresher courses so as to review the performance of the Traditional
Birth Attendants.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Is the hon. Minister aware that in an area like Chongwe where we have quite a good clinic that was built by the Government, we are recording two mothers in a month who are giving birth from the hospital? In fact, most of them are still giving birth from their homes. My question is: what is your ministry doing to ensure that in areas where you have established good clinics and facilities, the communities are encouraged to still go and make use of hospital facilities?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I am not very clear about the question but I will answer it the way I have understood it. Through decentralisation, the District Directors of Health, going right down to the rural health centre, the health post, do conduct performance assessment visits every month. And it is through such visits that mothers are encouraged to utilise the health services that are at their disposal. This is a continuous process. If the hon. Member has noticed this, it may be that they have not yet really got on the band wagon
to realise that they have services that they have to utilise. It is an on-going process and I would like to believe that in due course, there will be many more mothers using the health facilities available for deliveries.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Shepande (Nangoma): Sir, is the hon. Minister aware that wherever there is a clinic, there are bound to be several expectant mothers? What steps is the ministry taking to ensure that there is a maternity ward at every clinic?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I will be generous to answer that question because I do not think it is in line with Question 55. I would even go further to say wherever there are people, there will be pregnancies and deliveries.

Laughter.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think I have adequately and elaborately stated here that in the realisation of the inadequacy
in the provided facilities, the Ministry of Health embarked on training Traditional Birth Attendants. And to us, really, this is a way of trying to meet the needs of our community and to be able to provide a maternity wing in every clinic that is a long way off.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Haakaloba (Magoye): Sir, is the hon. Minister aware that the Traditional Birth Attendants’ training that he is talking about is not heard of in Magoye Constituency?

Laughter.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I am definitely not aware that is the situation in the hon. Member’s constituency, and it cannot be possible.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Wina (Nalolo): I wonder whether the hon. Minister is aware that Zambia has the highest rate of maternal deaths in the whole SADC region. And if this is the case, losing so much human resource, what specific measures has his

[Mrs Wina]

ministry put in place to address this particular issue? Or, does the Government consider this as not very important?

Mr Speaker: A bonus answer! {mospagebreak}

Laughter.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in answer to that question, there is no better placed person to know the unacceptably high maternal mortality rate in our country. What is it we are doing about it? The measures to combat or reduce maternal mortality are complex. There is need for us to improve the basic health care at primary level. There is need to train, as we have tried, Traditional Birth Attendants. There is need, with the use of our co-operating partners, to improve on infrastructure, the roads, which, actually, has started. There is need, too, to intensify on reproductive health, that is, making provision to our families, the need to use the productive health services such as contraceptives for safe motherhood. This is an on-going exercise and we entered into a three-year programme with the United Nations Population Fund to address this unacceptably high maternal mortality rate.

Thank you, Sir.

ANTI-RETROVIRAL DRUGS

56. Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the ministry will begin giving anti-retroviral drugs to pregnant women to protect unborn babies against HIV/AIDS; and

(b) how much has so far been secured for procurement of the drugs.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in answer to Question 56, the Ministry of Health started the provision of anti-retroviral drugs to pregnant women to protect the unborn babies from transmission of HIV/AIDS from the mother to child in the year 2000. This pilot project has been successfully implemented by the Government is in four areas, namely, Lusaka, Monze, Mbala and Ndola and in Chingola and Chililabombwe by Konkola Mine authorities.

In addition, the House may wish to know that the ministry is about to introduce the anti-retroviral therapy in our public institutions. Pregnant women in all the nine proposed centres will benefit from this. I further wish to remind the House that my ministry is moving very cautiously in introducing these services due to inherent dangers and concerns. Therefore, we are taking all necessary precautions to avoid or minimise the dangers inherent in these drugs. Briefly, our concerns are:

(a) the emergence of resistance which must, as much as possible, be prevented by information and education to our patients;

(b) side effects of drugs are serious, hence the need to be given under the supervision of medical

personnel;
(b) need to regularly take the drugs once they have been started; and

(c) the need to ensure that food is available, hence discussions with the World Food Programme to supplement food supply to the patients in these centres.

Mr Speaker, my ministry has been allocated an amount of K12 billion from the Treasury for this purpose. However, the it has continued its efforts to look elsewhere for more resources from our co-operating partners and the global fund and other sources.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell this august House and the nation at large, the time frame in which he thinks all districts in this country will benefit from what other districts are benefiting because I worked with MMD and I know that it can take seven years before other districts start benefiting. So, can he give us the time frame when other districts which have not benefited will benefit.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I have indicated and informed the House that there will be nine provincial centres for the administration of anti-retroviral drugs. With regard to the question as to when I think the hon. Member of Parliament
will be aware that we have been running advertisements in the papers for bids for suppliers to indicate their willingness to supply us with anti-retroviral drugs with specific specifications.

Our timetable is such that, going by the tender procedures, by the end of next month, we should introduce anti-retroviral drugs in these nine centres.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipata): Is the hon. Minister aware that most of these anti-retroviral and TB/AIDS-related drugs, whenever they are available, find their way into private pharmacies and on the streets? What audit measures does the hon. Minister intend to put in place to stop this?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, that is a concern of the Ministry of Health not only with anti-retroviral drugs, but with many other drugs. Through this House, at each of these nine centres, there will be a committee that will consist, of course, of a physician, social worker, and a nurse from an NGO to try and streamline the administration of anti-retroviral drugs. We believe that in so doing, the drugs will go to the intended recipients.

However, there is a tendency that is prevailing where when one feels well, even for common drugs like chloroquin, to discontinue taking the drugs. This is the reason why there are these medical teams in the centres to ensure that anti-retroviral drugs are administered along the same lines as DOTS (Directly Observe Treatments Short Course) in the management of Tuberculosis. This is the way in which anti-

retroviral drugs will be administered. The spouse, relative or health worker will try to ensure that the patient takes these drugs as prescribed because if that does not happen, one of our worries, of resistance, will emerge very quickly and it will be a very big problem.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Could the hon. Minister of Health, please, confirm ordinarily that the Government has agreed with the
World Bank a package of US $40 million for anti-retroviral drugs, provided they bring the necessary legislation to the House which he has, to date, not publicised but expects it to be legislated soon.

Dr Chituwo: The hon. Member for Lusaka Central has got his information totally wrong. Sir, we entered into an agreement with the World Bank for US $42 million, not for the purchase of anti-retroviral drugs but for the programme of combating HIV/AIDS which includes at community level, prevention, support and care.

The purchase of anti-retroviral drugs in the US $42 million is only a small component. So, through this House, we entered into a loan with the World Bank for the US $42 million and
it had nothing to do with the legislation for the National AIDS Council. Historically, that was the condition, but as we negotiated with the World Bank in Washington, that condition does not arise any more. So, we will, in due course, bring to the House the National AIDS Council Bill but before that, the normal procedure will be followed where hon. Members of Parliament will be availed the proposed draft Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Miss Nawa (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister how many laboratories have been put in place to examine those who are going to take these drugs to ensure that there is no adverse effect on them.

Dr Chituwo: That is a very good question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu. Sir, we have, as Ministry of Health, in conjunction with the National AIDS Council, put in place guidelines with regard to the minimum requirements for these nine centres. And, indeed, I must inform the nation, through this House, that the nine centres have been identified, not basically because they are Government institutions.

If, in a province, there is a mission hospital that has got better facilities, that will be the centre for the management and administration of anti-retroviral drugs. There are various parameters in the monitoring of patients that are on anti-retroviral drugs and as per World Health Organisation (WHO) to start with, we shall use the proxy by the measurement of the lymphocyte level in the bloods of our patients, which correlates very well with the level of immunity. That facility is available and that is what we shall use.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, some time back, the Government asked traditional healers to work together with modern doctors to try and find a cure for HIV/

AIDS. I want to find out how far they have gone in finding this cure and, indeed, the results of whatever they have done to come up with the cure.

Dr Chituwo: That is an entirely new question which the hon. Member can ask in the normal manner.

I thank you, Sir.

BOREHOLE DRILLING

57. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) how many boreholes were earmarked and sunk in the following parliamentary constituencies between January, 2002, and May, 2002:

(i) Kaoma;

(ii) Mangango; and

(iii) Luampa, and

(b) how much was spent to sink these boreholes.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Manjata): Mr Speaker, a total of 21 boreholes were earmarked and twenty-one were sunk in the period of January and May, 2002 in the following constituencies:

Kaoma 5 boreholes;

Mangango 13 boreholes; and

Luampa 03 boreholes

(b) A total of K326,000,000 was spent to sink these
boreholes.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

RURAL INVESTMENT FUND

58. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what the status of the Rural Investment Fund (RIF) was.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kamwendo): Mr Speaker, the Rural Investment Fund (RIF) was one of the components of the Agricultural Sector Investment Programme (ASIP) under the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. The Rural Investment Fund
aimed at building the capacity of poor small-scale farmers through the construction and rehabilitation of rural infrastructure. Rural Investment Fund was a US $15.5 million programme funded by the World Bank. It was a five-year programme and it started in 1996. The programme was supposed to end in December 2000 but was extended to December 2001. It can be stated that the World Bank- funded Rural Investment Programme was officially closed on 31st December, 2001.

[Mr Kamwendo]

During the extension period, the Netherlands Government contributed US $2,017,000 for RIF projects in the Western Province and the Zambian Government also provided K4.5 billion from the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) resources.

During the year 2002, the RIF activities include:

(i) Completing projects under World Bank funding;

(ii) Continuation of implementation of projects in Western Province under the Netherlands Government support and using HIPC resources;

(iii) In the 2002 Budget, K6 billion has been allocated under HIPC. Of this amount, K5 billion had been released by 26th June,
2002, by the Government. The emphasis for the new projects is on income generating; and

(iv) RIF is also preparing a successor programme which will be supported by the World Bank and will commence in 2003.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

BANANA GROWING

59. Mr Nang’omba (Mazabuka) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) what the total hectarage of land that is under irrigation for banana growing in the Southern Province is, district by district; and

(b) what measures have been put in place to protect the local fruit from cheap imports from neighbouring countries

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, a total of 490 hectares of land is under irrigation for banana growing in the Southern Province. The breakdown of the above figure is as follows: Siavonga District has 140 hectares and Mazabuka has 350 hectares. The rest of the districts have negligible areas under banana growing under irrigation like a few mats behind homesteads.

Secondly, the Government is governed by existing Preferential Trade Area (PTA) agreements regarding imports and exports. However, the Government has strengthened phytosanitary controls that will not endanger the fruit industry in the country in general and bananas in particular.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Miss Nawakwi: Mr Speaker, I wonder where the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives got that large acreage of banana growing in this country and puts it at 490 in the Southern Province alone. As some of us are aware, the largest acreage for commercial undertaking is about twenty-five hectares, two in Mazabuka, two in Siavonga and one in Mkushi.

Hon. Government Member: What is your question?

Miss Nawakwi: The question is: where did the hon. Minister get that large acreage of banana production as at this date, 2002? Is he talking about theoretical acreage or existing acreage?

Mr Kamwendo: The answer is combined acreage, Sir.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Nang’omba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures are being put in place to encourage small-scale and commercial farmers to grow bananas, in terms of funding.

Mr Kamwendo: The Government has embarked on this programme and would like to ensure that farmers grow the product on a large scale. To answer the question in short, Mr Speaker, the Government is serious about the programme and we want to ensure that the project is spread throughout the country.

Thank you, Sir.

MOUNT MAKULU RESEARCH STATION WORKERS

60. Captain Moono asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives how the Government intends to assist workers at Mount Makulu Research Station to own houses.

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, Mount Makulu Research Station housing units fall under the category of institutional houses and, therefore, cannot be sold to the sitting tenants. This arrangement does not only affect Mount Makulu

Research Station, but all our colleges and research stations belonging to the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. Most of our staff at Mount Makulu who did not benefit from the sale of Government houses have been allocated small holdings at Mount Makulu Research Station to build residential houses.

I thank you, Sir.

Captain Moono: Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives aware that the plots which were intended for Mount Makulu Research Station workers to build their own houses were instead sold to other people, especially those from Lusaka and none of them benefitted?

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that development and I thank the hon. Member for that new question. We shall investigate the matter.

Thank you, Sir.

MOVEMENT OF CATTLE

61. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what measures have been taken to allow cattle traders in the Western Province to move their animals to other provinces in Zambia.

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, Western Province has, time and again, experienced outbreaks of Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP) which is a highly contagious cattle disease with no cure at the moment. It is a transboundary livestock disease and, therefore, has very serious economic and international trade consequences for Zambia. It has been fuelled by the influx of refugees from our neighbouring countries. It poses a serious threat to Western Province for food security through its capacity to spread very rapidly in plague proportions.

The Department of Research and Specialist Services imposed a ban on movement of live cattle from the province in order to control and minimise the spread of CBPP within and outside the province. Live cattle are carriers of the disease and, therefore, only carcasses are allowed outside the province until such a time that the disease is contained.
Various abattoir owners are transporting beef carcasses from Western Province to all parts of the country using refrigerated trucks.

Currently a vaccination exercise is in progress and once the disease is eradicated, the movement restriction on livestock out of the province will be reviewed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, has the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives considered re-organising the Veterinary Department so that its administration of cattle does not follow political boundaries, but the natural grazing and trade routes of these cattle? I am thinking of places such as Mwandi and Mulobezi whose natural trading routes are with Livingstone and not going back into Western Province. Has he considered that the diseases follow these natural grazing and trading routes? Sir, the artificial political boundaries are hurting rather than helping the trade.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the House that the question raised by the hon. Member for Livingstone, which he brought to my ministry’s attention much earlier, is being seriously considered. It is only reasonable that we do not restrict ourselves to administrative boundaries but follow the disease. Therefore, measures are being taken immediately an announcement is made declaring certain areas ‘disaster areas’ which will be within the next thirty days.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, the people of Western Province have suffered from this inconvenience for more than ten years because of their courtesy and hospitality.

Mr Speaker: Question!

Mr Shumina: Sir, may I know how much longer the people of Western Province will wait since they have already waited for more than ten years. How long do they have to wait to ensure that this problem is resolved so that they can sell their live animals freely anywhere in this country?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, we would like to announce, sooner than later, measures that are being taken. These measures will make it possible that within this year, the free movement of livestock will be assured to ensure that every province in this country enjoys the benefits of selling their animals and beef to places where they can get better earnings.

I thank you, Sir.

Princess Nakatindi Wina (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, I would like to inquire from the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether the monopoly by ZAMBEEF will continue for the next five years. Sir, this is as regards this disease which is incurable. At the moment, we are trying to find vaccines for HIV/AIDS, but it looks like it is more difficult to treat cattle than to eradicate HIV/AIDS. I think that this is a trade manoeuvre because it is only ZAMBEEF moving cattle from the Western Province. This will really bring a revolution in the Western Province because we depend on cattle apart from sand and fish. I, therefore, would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to take heed of this before a revolution erupts in the Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Eventually, that question became a statement, but there was a question on the monopoly of some company.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, nobody is allowed to move any cattle from the Western Province to any other area, ZAMBEEF included. They move beef, which is different from cattle.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND (CDF)

62. Colonel Makumba (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) how much money, in the form of Constituency

Development Funds, was released in the year 2001;

(b) which constituencies benefited; and

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, a similar question was asked a day or two ago and we requested that we be given more time to gather more information.

[Mr Mabenga]

We still think that we have not gathered enough information and, therefore, are asking for more time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Question has lapsed.

CIVIL SERVICE PENSION FUND

63. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning how much money was owed by the Government to the Civil Service Pension Fund from January, 1992, to date and when it would be paid.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, the Government owes the Civil Service Pension Fund K43.9 billion and during the month of July we paid K10 billion.

The programme to liquidate the balance is that commencing August, this year, we will pay K6 billion per month.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’uni (Chama-South): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning to tell us how much and when the ministry is going to disburse funds, which were collected by the Zambia Revenue Authority and deposited at the Bank of Zambia, to the National Roads Board.

Mr Speaker: Order! The question is irrelevant. It has no relevance to what is here.

GOVERNMENT SUPPLIERS

64. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning how much money is owed by the Government to local suppliers of goods and services as at 31st January, 2002, and when the debt will be liquidated.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the total amount owed is K231.220 billion broken down as follows: Utilities (Water, Zesco and Zamtel) - K50.492 billion; Provisions (Office Supply, Food Supply Services) - K20.512 billion; Motor Vehicle Maintenance - K5.104 billion; and Capital (Road Contractors, Movable Assets) - K155.112 billion. The total amount is K231.220 billion

Thank your, Sir.

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister did not say when they will be paid. I would also like to know why the Government procures goods and services that it cannot afford and expects others, and not the Government, to pay.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, we have been reducing this debt on a monthly basis through RDCs. In the budget this year, we made a categorical statement that the Government will not enter into any contract when funds are not available and the contract is not in the Yellow Book.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, from the response given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning, what steps is the ministry taking to ensure that we do not have any more ghost supplies? In the past, we heard of people claiming to have supplied large quantities of, maybe, food to the Government or prisons yet, only ten bags were supplied. So, what measures has your ministry put in place to ensure that the Government is not swindled? We know that a big chunk of the money paid out is fake.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question. We do know that we still have problems in controlling the delivery of supplies. We have strengthened internal audits and would ask hon. Members of Parliament with information regarding these ghost suppliers to assist us in this process because it is a big battle.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how many former Cabinet Ministers, Deputy Ministers and permanent secretaries have, to date, not surrendered Government motor vehicles and furniture and what their names are;

(b) how many of these are still occupying Government houses; and

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that, so far, all former Cabinet Ministers, Deputy Ministers and permanent secretaries have handed over their motor vehicles to the Government. However, Mr Maybin Mubanga, former Permanent Secretary for North-Western Province, has obtained an injunction restraining the Government from getting the vehicle from him until his terminal benefits are paid to him.

The House may, further, wish to know that there are three former Deputy Ministers who have not surrendered the furniture as they are still occupying the houses where the furniture is. These are Mr Valentine Kayope; Mr C. E. Ngulube; and Mr D. Kapangalwendo

Mr Speaker, I wish to further inform the house that permanent secretaries are not issued with furniture. Therefore, we do not have anyone who has Government furniture.

Mr Speaker, there are currently three former Deputy Ministers who are still occupying Government houses, though my ministry has given them final notices of eviction. These are Mr Valentine Kayope; Mr C. E. Ngulube; and Mr D. Kapangalwendo

I would also like to report that the latest developments are

that Mr C. Ngulube will be moving out of the house by mid-day tomorrow, while Mr Valentine Kayope and Mr D. Kapangalwendo will be moving out within the course of the next few days.

As already indicated in my earlier answer, none of the former cabinet ministers, deputy ministers and permanent secretaries changed Government registered vehicles to private numbers apart from one former minister without portfolio who had changed a Hyundai Sonata to a private registration. But, this has since been retrieved and is back in the ministry where it was obtained.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, knowing that the ‘New Deal’ Government is serious on the issue of accountability, may I know the time limit given to those who are supposed to vacate Government houses and who is paying for ministers and deputy ministers who are supposed to occupy those houses if time is overdue?

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, I had mentioned the time frame.
I said Mr Ngulube will vacate the house by mid-day tomorrow and the other two former deputy ministers will also vacate the houses within the next few days.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Katema: Nobody is paying for any house.

Mr Speaker: The question by the hon. Member for Chipangali has not been fully answered. The question is, when a Minister or Deputy Minister is no longer holding such position, what is the deadline? How many days is that person given to vacate the house? That is the question.

Mr Katema: Mr Speaker, when a Cabinet or Deputy Minister ceases to be a Minister, he or she is given three months in which to stay in the house.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, is that the case? Is it not forty days?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my colleague may not be aware of the latest situation.

Laughter.

The Vice-President: The latest situation is that fifteen days maximum is given as per conditions of service.

Thank you, Sir.

Interruptions.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali has raised a very good question.

We want to know, now that we have the former ministers utilising Government facilities, who is paying for the other
Ministers wherever they are, because Government is losing money.

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President may help the hon. Minister of Works and Supply.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, obviously, if there are Government Ministers staying anywhere else, the Government is responsible for their rentals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, could the Minister, please, clarify what happens when an ex-minister exceeds the fifteen days? Is he not expected to pay for staying in a government house? What penalties are applied to people who stay beyond the stipulated time?

Mr Shepande: Considering electricity and water!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it just so happens that some ministers may not have made adequate arrangements …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah, no!

The Vice-President: … for them to move out, but truly speaking, within fifteen days, they are required to vacate. However, we are a humane …

Laughter.

The Vice-President: … Government and we would like to give our colleagues the opportunity to move out voluntarily. It does not please us to hear that police are going to be involved to force former ministers to vacate houses. So, we would always like it done in a manner that shows respect to the former office holders.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nyirenda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, can the Vice-President confirm that these people overstay in the houses because the Government fails to pay them their dues.

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, is that the case?

The Vice-President: Well, Mr Speaker, I will not deny that. In certain cases, the Government has not fully paid off the former ministers. And for that reason, they like to hold on to some Government property until they are adequately remunerated.

I thank you, Sir.

MONEY OWED TO FOOD RESERVE AGENCY

66. Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many people owed money to the

[Mr L. L. Phiri]

Food Reserve Agency as at 31st May, 2002;

(b) how many of these were former Government officials;

(d) how much is owed.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kamwendo): Mr Speaker, 4,473 people owed money to the Food Reserve Agency as at 31st May, 2002. The details of the breakdown of the figure are as follows:

Fertiliser

Year Other i.e. Individuals/ Politicians Total
Associations/Outgrowers

1997/1998   64           18   82
1998/1999   1,714           90    1,804
1999/2000   2,434           -   2,434
2001/2002   4,212           108   4,320

Maize

Year Others Government Officials Total

1998/1999 127 26 153

One hundred and thirty-four former government officials owed money to the Food Reserve Agency as at 31st May, 2002. One hundred and thirty-four former government officials still owed the Agency as at 31st May, 2002.

A total of K6,301,272,022 was owed by former government officials to the Agency as at 31st May, 2002.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the New Deal Government has promised this country that current leaders and former leaders must set an example on the question of accountability
and transparency within and outside this country,…

Mr Sichilima: Question!

Mr L. L. Phiri: I am a senior Member of Parliament, hon. Member for Mbala, just listen!

Can the hon. Minister indicate what measures are put in place for people getting loans to realise that people recovering the loans. mean well.

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, the appropriate agency will pursue the matter up to the end. If it means prosecuting such officials, the agency will do so and so, the law will definitely have to follow them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, in light of what the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has put down, and especially in terms of recovery from the small-scale farmers, the last time we said that there would be no blanket action, what example is he going to give? Is the hon. Minister going to ensure that the property of these people is seized like is being said about the small-scale farmers? Is he going to ensure that there is no differential treatment? We should treat everyone equally in this case.

Mr Kamwendo: Mr Speaker, the answer to that question is yes. Before they got the loans from the Food Reserve Agency, these officials had entered into an agreement and relinquished their properties in terms of collateral or security and so the appropriate board like I had indicated will follow them to the end.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalumiana (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the assurance the hon. Minister is giving us. My question is: what time frame is attached to the process of debt recovery? This is worrying and it is not expected of leaders and I would like to believe that some are here.

Interruptions.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Food Reserve Agency has compiled a full list of those that owe the agency and the debt collection in the ministry is already in process. The action is to recover all that is owed, including the attachment of all the assets that are incumbent.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kabaghe (Matero): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives has given us the outstanding amount of money that is owed. But, does that amount include the debts outstanding from the Agricultural Credit and Marketing Programme?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the amount does not include what is owed under the named facility.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

67. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing which constituencies have, so far, received the Constituency Development Fund in 2002 and when the others will receive the fund.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that in the Budget year for 2002, no constituency has yet received the funds as the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has not yet released this year’s allocation ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was informing the House that in the Budget year for 2002, no constituency has received the funds as the Government has not yet released this year’s allocation.

Mr Speaker, our ministry has received a commitment from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning that the funds for 2002 will be released in the third quarter of the year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Deputy Minister clarify or tell this august House why the first, second and third quarters have not been released as was the case in the past when the MMD had a lot of seats around the country. But now that the Opposition is in the majority, are they using a gimmick so that we should not benefit?

Laughter.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, there is absolutely no discrimination as to when the funds will be released. The funds are released after they have been collected from the various taxation points and we have been informed that the funds will be released any time during the third quarter of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that some constituencies have never received the 2001 Constituency Development Fund?

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing earlier asked for the indulgence of the House that this question be answered at a later date. We are still researching and getting the facts together and as soon as we get all the facts, we shall inform the House accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, I think the ministry should be courageous and advise us, through the Chair,
as to what happened to the 2001 Constituency Development Funds so that we do not ask Mr Speaker to allow us to bring a Private Member’s Motion on this matter.

Secondly, for 2002, we are aware that certain individuals have already been paid their constituency funds …

Mr Speaker: Order! Please, ask a supplementary question.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister rephrase his earlier answer that no constituency funds have been paid when in actual fact, some constituencies, Mwandi in particular, have since received the 2002 Constituency Development Fund.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, all monies that are given out by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are provided for in the Yellow Book that this House approved. For this year’s budget, no money has been disbursed to any

constituency in accordance with what the budget requires us to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, may I know whether the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is aware that the Constituency Development Fund is the only little cash that can get in the hands of our poor people. Is he aware that access to finances by the poor people in our community is very difficult and Constituency Development Fund is the only money that they can get to start their projects? Can we be assured that the hon. Minister is contemplating, perhaps, envisaging a time frame in which this money will be disbursed from next year onwards.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not think that statement is correct because those that we consider poor have access to monies for development projects through ZAMSIF, if they apply.

The 2002 Constituency Development Fund is not yet available because the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has not released the money. Therefore, there cannot be any money at all until the funds are released.

I thank you, Sir.

Miss Jere (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing aware that some constituencies were not paid the 2001 Constituency Development Fundin the last quarter? If so, what measures is the hon. Minister taking to pay this money?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member may recall that this question has lapsed twice this week, including this afternoon. I have encouraged any hon. Member of the House who wishes to pursue that question to put it forward through the Clerk.

Mr L. L. Phiri: We have done that!

Mr Speaker: Do it again.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing said that he will pay the money in the third quarter. Can he assure us that he will pay the whole amount? This is because between that third quarter and December there is no time to have it distributed into four quarters.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, we have been assured by our colleagues that the money will be paid in full.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Situmbeko (Senanga): Mr Speaker, assuming that the answer given by the Minister of Local Government and Housing is that 2002 CDF has not yet been given, Sir, in case of by-elections and the MMD is defeated, the new Member of Parliament then finds out that his constituency did not receive the CDF but the records show that the money was actually given to that particular person who has failed to qualify to win that election, what type of corruption is

that?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member has been in the House before. That is known as a hypothetical question. In our rules, it is certainly not permitted.

Laughter.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether an audit has ever been carried out on CDF and when that audit is going to be Tabled in this House.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, this is the job we are doing right now. I am sure that the work will be finished as quickly as possible.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, considering that the issue has been so highly discussed through the Chair, is it possible for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to give a ministerial statement on the 2001/2002 CDF?

Mr Speaker: I do not think the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing will be able to answer that question now. The Chair has guided the House for any hon. Members to ask this question so that the minister responsible would come with relevant answers. Ministerial statements are restricted to specific issues such as the ones we dealt with yesterday. I encourage any of you to re-submit the question for processing. By that time, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing would have had sufficient time to do the necessary research. He can answer only through a re-submitted question.

Mrs Wamulume (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, my question is directed to His Honour the Vice-President on ZAMSIF. Is he aware that ZAMSIF forms cost K250,000 per copy? The
people in the village require to fill three sets of forms, and are thereby required to pay K750,000 for one project? If he is aware, where does he think the poor villagers will get K750,000 to pay for each project?

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President cannot answer this question because the relevant question on which he made a statement about ZAMSIF has already been dealt with.

Mr Hakaaloba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing has been talking about paying in full. Would he put that in figures so that we know how much money he is talking about.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, the figure is K30 million per constituency.

Thank you, Sir.

KAOMA DISTRICT SOLAR PANELS

68. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Energy and Water

Development when all the constituencies in Kaoma District in the Western Province will receive solar panels.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Lembalemba): Mr Speaker, in its effort to promote equitable distribution of electrification projects in the country, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development has been looking at installing solar energy systems in areas far away from the electricity grid. To this effect, the ministry, in November, 2001, requested all provincial permanent secretaries to submit a list of names of remote primary schools which will be included in its overall plan for solar electrification. However, the hon. Member is informed that the scarcity of funds is the biggest handicap in the speedy implementation of all electrification projects in the country. Currently, the ministry has a long list of on-going projects under its portfolio, and as such, Kaoma District may be considered as and when funds are available.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, I was a little concerned when the hon. Minister said there is scarcity of funds because rural electrification is paid for by every consumer in the country through that surcharge that we have on a monthly basis. So, why should there be a scarcity unless the money is being collected but not used for the intended purposes? Can you, please, confirm if that is the case.

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, I said, when I was giving the ministerial statement on my ministry, that Zambia is a very large country compared to some other countries. The money that we receive is not adequate to cover the whole country at one goal. That is why we are carrying out all these projects as we get the money.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalumiana (Nalikwanda): What criteria are they using to determine which places are given first priority?

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, what we have done in the ministry is that we have taken stock of projects that are being put up in most of the constituencies. After that is finished, we are going to map out a plan of how to do it. There are some areas that have received a lot of these projects but others have not. So, that is the criteria we are going to follow from now onwards.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Situmbeko: The hon. Minister used the phrase ‘equitable’ sharing of the resources of this country. Now, can he mention, to this House, regarding Western Province, if Kaoma was not given, which province has benefited from the solar panels.

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, the ministry has had a pilot project that started with Eastern Province and we have been monitoring this project. In fact, we have discovered that it is a very good trial project. However, we have had very useful projects and workshops with co-operating partners where we were looking at how best we can provide this type of service to our people throughout the country. A task force that is, now, gathering information has been put in place.

After this is done, we shall then move forward. There are so

many constituencies where these solar panels are being put. But, if the hon. Member wants, I can come with a comprehensive list of the constituencies that have received this facility. But, currently, the question is about Kaoma.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): My question is: are you aware that you have deceived the people of the Gwembe/Tonga because …

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: Order! Can the hon. Member for Sinazongwe rephrase his question in a parliamentary manner using parliamentary language, please.

Mr Muyanda: Sir, is the hon. Minister aware that the Gwembe/Tonga Project has remained a theoretical project and nothing practical is happening in as far as distribution of electricity is concerned?

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, I do not know if the hon. Member has visited his constituency because it is about two or three months ago when I undertook a trip to inspect this project and the project is going on very well.

Thank you, Sir.

KARIBA DAM

69. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) what the life span of the Kariba Dam is;

(b) whether any stress tests have been conducted on the dam; and

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, dams do not have a definite life span. However, the evaluation of Kariba Dam undertaken in 1997 by Knight Pissold Consultants estimated the life span of Kariba to be 130 years.

With regard to (c), there are no plans to build a new dam. In 1997, evaluation of Kariba Dam estimated the replacement cost of the same at US$215 million.

Thank you, Sir.

KAFUE GORGE II PROJECT

70. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) when the tender for the Kafue Gorge II Project will be awarded; and

(b) what has caused the delay in awarding the tender.

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, the process of awarding
the concession to develop the Kafue Gorge Lower Project is on-going. The tender documents are being prepared and will be distributed to the short listed bidders as soon as the Government resolves issues that have arisen in relation to partial risk guarantees that the bidders have indicated they will need.

With regard to part (b) of the question, the process of resolving the partial risk guarantees with the World Bank is a long and protracted one. This is the single most contributor in relation to issuing the tender documents.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Can the hon. Minister, please, clarify, in simple English, or explain what is meant by partial risk guarantee.

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, partial risk guarantees are given by the World Bank to investors and lenders to guard against perceived political risks such as exploration or, in other words, nationalisation, change of legislation and many other factors. These guarantees help reduce the cost of borrowing.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukwakwa: Mr Speaker, has an impact assessment on the project been done? If not, are there any compensation measures? In the past projects, for instance, the Gwembe/Tonga were displaced without any compensation.

Mr Lembalemba: Mr Speaker, impact assessment has already been done and we have taken care of nearly all these issues because we would not like to repeat what happened when we were constructing the Kariba Dam.

I thank you, Sir.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mr Kavindele): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do, now, adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1656 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 26th July, 2002.

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