Debates- Friday, 16th February, 2007

Printer Friendly and PDF

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 16th February, 2007

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the policy debate under the Motion of Supply for this year’s Estimates.

On Wednesday, 21st February, 2007, the business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. On this day, the House will also consider the Committee Stages of two Bills namely; the National Payments Systems Bill and the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and use of Chemical Weapons Bill. The House will then continue the debate on the Motion of Supply on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for this year.

On Thursday, 22nd February, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on this year’s Budget.

On Friday, 23rd February, 2007, the business of the House will begin with the Vice-President’s Question Time, then the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Sir, after that, the House will continue the debate on the Motion of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure.

I thank you, Sir.

_______

Mr Speaker: I have permitted the Hon. Minister of Education to make a ministerial statement.

Hon. Members: He is not in the House!

Mr Speaker: In his place the Hon. Acting Leader of Government Business may do so.

Mr Mpombo started looking for the document and could not find it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ooh! Boma yalala!

Interruptions

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I sincerely apologise for this situation. Your directives were conveyed in undiluted form and I am surprised that this has happened. I sincerely apologise, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: In view of the importance of the subject that the Hon. Minister of Education is required to discuss, the House may consider deferring this item to a later time this morning and I hear no objection.

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

KWACHA/DOLLAR EXCHANGE FLUCTUATIONS

293. Mr Sejani (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) what the reasons for the Kwacha/Dollar exchange rate fluctuations from 2005 to-date were;

(b) what the current official exchange rate of the Zambian Kwacha to the United States Dollar was; and

(c) what the official exchange rate of the Zambian Kwacha to the United States Dollar on 1st November, 2005 was.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, on the outset, it is important to understand that the Zambia’s current Exchange Rate Policy continues to be based on a flexible exchange rate system. As such, the exchange rate is determined by the supply and demand conditions in the foreign exchange markets.

In 2005, the foreign exchange market was characterised by a general appreciation of the Kwacha against major foreign currencies. The Kwacha appreciated by almost 27 per cent against the United States dollar due to higher supply of foreign exchange on the market than demand. The key factors for the increased foreign exchange supply included the following:

(i) increased copper output and export earnings, as well as a record high price of the commodity;

(ii) increased non-traditional export earnings;

(iii) increased balance of payment and budget support from our Co-operating Partners, following the attainment of the enhanced Heavily Indebted Poor Countries Initiative (HIPC), Completion Point in April 2005, which resulted in reduced external debt service obligations; and

(iv) increased foreign direct and portfolio investments reflecting improved market confidence in the economy occasioned by the write off of the bulk of Zambia’s external debts, and anticipated continued commitment to implementation of prudent fiscal and monetary policies. Higher inflows from foreign based portfolio investors, whose investment in Government securities significantly grew towards the end of 2005, also reflected high interest rate differentials with the rest of the world.

In 2006, the Kwacha recorded a depreciation of 21.1 per cent against the US dollar due to the following factors:

(i) the uncertainty associated with the election campaign where some of the issues raised were negative, continued to increase demand for foreign exchange.

Interruptions

Mr Magande: Secondly, (ii) during the year, inflows of portfolio investment in the country slowed down due to the narrowing in interest rate differentials with the rest of the world. The decrease in the interest rate differentials was due to lower yield rates on Government securities reflecting prudent fiscal management and increased interest rates in Europe and the United States of America, reflecting tight monitory policy.

(iii)  increased demand for imports particularly in the visioning sectors of the economy such as construction, mining and telecommunication.
 
(b) The official exchange rate as at 10th January, 2007, was asked was K4, 240.63 per United States dollar.
 
(c) The official exchange rate as at 1st November, 2005 was K4, 354.44 per United States Dollar.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister agree with me that for as long as the exchange rate is not backed by disenable increase in economic productivity, we shall continue to experience these wild fluctuations?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, to begin with, there are no wild fluctuations. As I have explained, the increase in foreign exchange into the country was occasioned by mining companies in Zambia exporting and earning foreign currency which came back into Zambia. So the production was in Zambia and that is why we earned the foreign exchange and so it is not correct to say that these fluctuations are caused by lack of production in the country.

I thank you.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that one of the factors that led to the depreciation of the kwacha last year was the elections. Can he, in this case, explain why the kwacha continued to depreciate even after the goodies had won and the baddies had lost? Taking into account the depreciation of the dollar itself against other currencies, this depreciation has been marked for example, if he does so in terms of pounds.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, it is nice to hear the hon. Member for Lusaka Central admitting that the baddies lost the elections…

Laughter

…will now realise that it is not good to be bad, they should join the goodies to run this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speake, the people who bring money into this country only come on the understanding that if they invest their money in Zambia, at the time that they need to take it out, either as profits or dividends, they will do so. Even the hon. Member for Lusaka Central knows that if he invests in Livingstone, he will not keep his money in Livingstone he will bring it back to Lusaka. If the situation therefore, in Livingstone deteriorates in terms of the behaviour of the people, he will want to go and close his shop and withdraw his money to bring it to Lusaka.

Therefore, even the people who invest in Zambia anticipate profits. During the elections, because of the baddies, there was influence of very poor mood in the country whereby the investors felt that it was time for them to take away their money before conflict arose and because of that, there was demand on the foreign currency. In other words, these people had to buy foreign currency to take back to their homes.

Why has the kwacha continued to move even now? I want to say that we have a programme under our projects for this year under our macroeconomic policies to get our import cover to two months of import cover. The Bank of Zambia is trying to accommodate and accumulate foreign exchange cover because we think that this year, there will be a lot of demand because of the economic activities for which we have to be ready.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister in view of the case that we lost yesterday in the UK, that is the Donegal Case with regards to the K42 million and where it is anticipated that we will have to pay between US$10 million or US$20 million. Is this not going to affect the strength of the kwacha and if so, what is the Government going to do to ensure that the so called voucher funds are not going to again affect our economy?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Livingstone, the Learned Hon. Sakwiba Sikota would have assisted this House and the nation by waiting until the Government had issued a substantive statement on this matter. The spokesman for Government has offered to issue a statement on this matter. My own interpretation is that we have not lost the case. There are still some issues to be determined and that will be made very clear by this competent Government so that everybody knows.

But, Sir, let me say that voucher ventures are all over the world, however, recently because of the international community involvement in debt forgiveness, this has become a very unprofitable business because when somebody wants to buy Zambia’s debt, for example, that we have the creditor nation, that creditor nation might be involved in writing off Zambia’s debt and, therefore, nobody has been very keen to go into that business.

Mr Speaker, the case which is being dealt with now happened in the late 1990s, it is only that courts take that long to determine these issues and I want to say that there is a second question that is coming from Hon. Sejani where he is asking about Government local debts, but obviously I want to say that in this particular issue if we did lose the case, that is why we are saying, it is very difficult to determine when we are going to end paying all the debts that we owe because some of the cases are being determined by the courts of law and they are being determined on old cases.

I want to say that for the moment we do not see how this is going to affect the foreign exchange markets.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, our children in lower grades are learning about kwachas and ngwees, but they have never seen any ngwee. What plans has the Government to bring back the coins so that children can see them?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, the legal currency for Zambia is the kwacha and the ngwee. The ngwees are still there. I am sure amongst us here if we went to our houses …

Hon. Opposition Member: Where?

Mr Magande: … we will find these ngwees being there.

Interruptions

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, because of poor development in the economy the currency responded accordingly. I am sure most of my colleagues, including the hon. Member for Katombola will realise that some five years ago even the K20 or K500 notes was not very readily accepted. This time even if you went to the market with a K20 note they will accept it. This is because the economy is improving …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Magande: … and for as long as the economy does not improve then it all affects the value of the currency. Otherwise, the Bank of Zambia still has millions of ngwees out there in the market. What should happen is that, we must build the economy so that in fact, 1 ngwee will be able to buy something in the economy because of the large volume of production.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, the Minister of Finance and National Planning in his answer to the hon. Member for Lusaka Central Constituency’s question regarding some factors that contributed to the exchange rate of dollar to kwacha said that, as long as the Zambian policy continues encourages foreign investors to come here and run big businesses, the exchange rate will always be controlled by them. Can the hon. Minister agree that as long as the Government continues to refuse to empower the indigenous Zambians with cash to partner with foreigners the exchange rate will continue fluctuating to the interest of the foreign investors?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Ndola Central for that very good question. I wish he could be frank with this House. In the last few years, he has been increasing his bus fleet. The way he does that, is to go to his bank, borrow the kwacha and ask the bank to sell him foreign currency so that he pays for the buses from Brazil. He is a local investor. It is not just foreign investors who are demanding the dollars.

Mr Mushili: It is personal.

Mr Magande: I am not being personal. I have said in this House, Mr Speaker, that an investor includes people like the hon. Member of Parliament for Ndola Central.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Magande: We must appreciate and admire people like him.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: They are the people growing the economy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Hon. Dr Machungwa, the Member for Parliament for Luapula has been increasing his chicken run and that requires buying new drinkers which are not made in Zambia.

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Machugwa: Mr Speaker, I reluctantly rise on this point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning really in order instead of answering the question to be debating the hon. Member for Luapula who is sitting and listening attentively. Is he in order, Sir?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Luapula does not wish to be praised for the good investment he is making in the economy.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: So, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may leave him alone.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for that ruling. In presenting our budget we admitted that about 68 per cent of Zambians are still in the poverty category. The other 32 per cent are in the other, which might be the richer category. In Zambia we do not want to sing about the 32 per cent which might include the hon. Member for Ndola Central who only became rich in the last five years.

Mr Kambwili: No!

Laughter

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: For as long as we do not sing about these heroes, these rich Zambians the other 68 per cent, Mr Speaker, will feel that there is no future for them. Recently, in a neighbouring country they published a list of indigenous billionaires.

Mr Mushili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, I am wondering about the extent to which ignorance is being exposed in this House, especially, coming from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I never thought that he does not know that I have been in business for more than 22 years now. He only came to know about my businesses five years ago. What a pity. Is the hon. Minister in order to make such a statement?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! In this case the hon. Member for Ndola Central wants to be recognised, but not for five, but for 22 years.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Magande: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I wish to clearly amend my knowledge.

Laughter

Mr Magande: I think the hon. Member for Ndola Central should realise that I am the Minister for Finance and National Planning. I actually read even records of companies which are lending money to Zambians. I do not want to review which recent companies I was reading about, but let us leave the matter at that point.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member for Ndola Central that part of Government efforts to empower Zambians, is the recently passed Citizens Empowerment Act.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: It came in this House and it was passed. In this year’s budget on one of the paragraphs in my address, I indicated that we have K111 billion for various enterprise funds. So, we are indeed trying to make sure that this vibrant economy is not moved only by foreigners, but also the K60 billion with which we intend to empower our own people.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

CLINICAL TESTS ON TRADITIONAL MEDICINES FOR HIV/AIDS

294. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) how many tests the ministry had conducted on traditional medicines meant to cure HIV/AIDS from 2001 to 2006;

(b) whether the traditional medicines were administered on HIV/AIDS positive patients in the period above and, if so, what the results were; and

(c) when the results would be made public.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, there was a total of seventy-nine herbal medicines submitted to the National Aids Council for initial scrutiny at the University Teaching Hospital Virology Laboratory over this period. Out of seventy-nine, four traditional herbal remedies, namely, Mailacin, Mayeyacin, Sondashi and Ngoma were approved for further analysis in HIV/AIDS clients. A Rapid Observational and Explanatory Clinical Trial on the safety and efficacy of these four formulations were approved by the University of Zambia Research and Ethics Committee in August, 2005. However, when the clinical trials began, the Ngoma formulation was excluded because its owner, Mr Ngoma died. In total, there have been three traditional remedies subjected to clinical trials in HIV/ADS from 2001 to 2006.

Sir, a total of twenty-six HIV positive participants enrolled in the study. The findings of the clinical trials have undergone final scientific analysis in collaboration with the Ministry of Health, Investigators, the National AIDS Council, the Data and Safety Monitoring Board and the University of Zambia Research and Ethics Committee.

However, preliminary data indicated that there were adverse reactions recorded with the three medicines and that although results show promising trend, further scientific analysis require longer duration periods need to be undertaken.

Mr Speaker, the report of the results of the clinical tests will be made available to the public soon because the scientific analysis has now been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out at which stage the Ministry of Health is allowing these traditional medicine practitioners to make claims that they have got herbs that will cure AIDS. At which stage are they legally allowed to do so?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, what we have said as Ministry of Health is that those who are claiming that they have herbs able to treat HIV/AIDS should submit them to the National AIDS Council for further scientific analysis. Arising from that, we had the seventy-nine herbs submitted out of which four were considered for trials.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, I would like proper clarity from the hon. Minister of Health on this. Out of twenty-six positive cases that were tested on these traditional herbs, are there indications that the results were positive, although they want to have longer trials? I want to understand this very clearly. Were they healed? Do you expect another person to be sick of something else in twenty years?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I would like to mention that as at now, we do not have any medicine that is able to make a patient to become HIV negative. Currently, the medicines that we have are just able to improve the health of a person and reduce the viral load to undetectable levels although the client remains HIV positive.

Sir, in this case, there have been some promising results, clinically, where a patient seems to improve but then, we cannot conclude because we do not want to mislead people because soon or later after long clinical trials, we might discover that it is not working as good as expected. Therefore, we need a bit of time before we alarm the nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Scott: Mr Speaker, I just want to follow up on the answer given to the hon. Member for Livingstone, Mr Sikota, because I think his question was not answered. His obvious concern is that if people trust in these medicines as being effective, it actually stops some people from taking ARVs because they are unpleasant and have side effects. What measures has he put in place to actually, discourage people from taking traditional medicines until they are approved by the ministry?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, traditional medicines are registered under the Traditional Healers Association of Zambia. They have guidelines which have been passed on from generation to generation. We have been sensitising the public that as at now, we do not have traditional medicines good enough to be taken scientifically such that the patient improves.

We have made ARVs available throughout the country and all the districts. We actually sensitise the public that the medicines that are good enough are ARVs and not the traditional medicines as at now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, is it in order for the Government to let these traditional healers continue advertising that they are able to cure AIDS while at the same time, the Government is advising people that there is no cure for AIDS yet?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I would say that traditional medicines have been passed on from generation to generation. A lot of claims have been made by our traditional healers that they are able to treat various diseases. As at now, very few, if any of our traditional medicines which are scientifically proved to work have been known to work. Therefore, when the traditional healers are making claims, all that we can do is to sensitise the public that scientifically, we do not have evidence that these medicines are working and encourage the public to go to our facilities where the actual medicines that have been known to work are.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! What the Chair is sensing is that it is very difficult to understand why the hon. Minister of Health is being ambiguous. I think that is the problem. They are unable to come back over and over this matter. Are you able, at some state, hon. Minister of Health, to come with a statement which will detail your hopes and fears regarding the claims of traditional healers that they are able to heal HIV/AIDS? I think that is the point. They are saying so. I know you are a deputy minister and it may be very difficult to answer that, but I am looking in this direction to find out if you are able.

Laughter

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, most obliged.

Mr Speaker: In other words, it will be done.

TARRING OF THE GWEMBE/CHIPEPO ROAD

295. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when Government would tar the Gwembe/Chipepo Road.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, my ministry has no immediate plans to upgrade the road to tarmac standards. However, my ministry is desirous to improve the project road to an all weather gravel standard. In 2006, my ministry engaged the China Geo Corporation to carry out rehabilitation in the first six months commencing on 26th July, 2009, thereafter, provide maintenance for three and a half years on the road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for one thing…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Yes, there is nothing wrong with that and I know that…

Mr Speaker: Order! There is also something wrong because you are debating. What is your question?

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Thank you, Sir, and I know that is the flavour you want. At a campaign rally that His Excellency the President held in Munyumbwe in which the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Sylvia Masebo was present, the losing MMD candidate on the same rally promised the people of Gwembe that the Gwembe/Chipepo Road…

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: He lost.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Ntundu: Yes, he lost and terribly.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: The losing candidate promised the people of Gwembe that tarring of the Gwembe/Chipepo Road would commence on 6th October, 2006. Why has work not commenced on this road?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The House is in a very good mood this morning.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the good question raised by the hon. Member for Gwembe who won the last elections.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, it is not good for candidates to make pronouncements during rallies when they have no capacity to do what they promise.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: We know that our job as hon. Members is to make laws, but we mislead people by promising them that a bridge will be put up when that is completely outside our terms of reference.

Mr Speaker, the ministry can only attend to directives that have been pronounced by the Head of State at any function and not by candidates who try to woo votes from the people. However, I am not saying we have no intentions to tar the Gwembe/Chipepo Road. We will make sure that the road for now is made to the highest standard so that the people of Gwembe can use it. You may also wish to know that your constituency has the Bottom Road. There has been nothing in the budget for many years, but if you check in the budget this year, this New Deal Government has put in about K5 billion to try and see what we can do about the Bottom Road.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

ACCOMMODATION FOR NEWLY RECRUITED TEACHERS IN RURAL AREAS

296. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) what measures the Government had taken to ensure that teachers who were recently posted to rural areas were properly accommodated; and

(b) how many housing units were required to adequately accommodate the teachers at (a) above.

Mr Kambwili interjected

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Deputy Minister of Education (Ms Changwe): Mr Speaker, the response is that the Government has taken the following measures to ensure that teachers recently posted to rural areas are properly accommodated:

(i) the ministry is posting teachers to schools where accommodation is available;

(ii) the ministry encourages school parents’ teachers associations to provide decent accommodation to newly recruited teachers; and

(iii) in cases where a school has no accommodation, teachers are entitled to housing allowance to enable them rent accommodation.

The response to part (b) of the question is that it is difficult to come up with the exact number of housing units required to adequately accommodate the newly recruited teachers. However, district boards and school parents’ teachers associations were asked to ensure that decent accommodation was made available to teachers in their districts and schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the housing allowance given to these teachers is very little and that it can not enable them to get any decent accommodation and that the ministry cares less on the type of decent accommodation that the teachers have, but they would rather have the teachers provide their services?

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, indeed, the housing allowance that is paid to our teachers is a subject for annual review in bargaining units and the levels agreed upon. We do understand as a ministry, of course, that the housing market fluctuates from year to year and this is a matter which we are very much aware of.

As far as the decency of accommodation for our teachers is concerned, as a ministry, we would like to see decent housing provided to all our teachers. That is why as part of our educational provision measures, we will ensure that when we construct schools, we do at the same time look into the availability of housing for our teachers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education aware that in most cases, teachers never receive their housing allowances and ultimately they are evicted by landlords? What action is he going to take to contain the situation?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we have instituted a tracking system tracking our funding to ensure that the disbursements from the headquarters reach our teachers whether it be housing allowance or other payments.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, I believe that any person who is of no fixed aboard in English is called a vagabond. Does the hon. Minister understand how much confidence is lost from our teachers as a result of not having decent accommodation, which in turn results in very poor performance on the part of our pupils?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the Minister of Education is very much aware of the impact that housing has on the teaching and learning environment. This is why the ministry has taken all the measures necessary to ensure that our teachers are accommodated. Those that are not accommodated in Government housing, are given allowances to ensure that they find some accommodation within the vicinity of their schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bonshe (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, I come from a rural constituency and I will speak on behalf of the rural people depicting the situation there. The hon. Minister said that teachers who are not accommodated by the ministry are given housing allowance, how does he expect them to find houses befitting them in rural areas knowing very well that in rural areas people live in huts. At one school we have 22 teachers and we appreciate that, but at the same time at this same school, other teachers are still sleeping in classrooms due to lack of accommodation. I would like to find out from the hon. Minster how he is going to solve this problem.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I equally represent a rural constituency and I am very much aware of the difficulties that obtain in rural constituencies. I spent some of my campaign days in classrooms. Therefore, what the hon. Member is expressing is, of course, the difficulties that our rural teachers are facing. However, this is one of the programmes that has made the Ministry of Education attach priority to the rural environment in the provision of facilities, and, in particular, the construction of houses for teachers in rural areas.

Clearly, the current situation should be considered as transitional because we have a programme of constructing houses in rural areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there are any plans to move away from giving teachers housing allowance as a percentage of their salaries since we all know that even the entire teacher’s salary cannot be used to rent decent accommodation.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, as I pointed out, all these matters relating to the welfare of our teachers are subject to learning process and that particular item being raised by the hon. Member is a subject for bargaining. The bargaining unit can discuss it if brought to their attention.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, in his answer the hon. Minister of Education has just told the House that during the campaigns, he was committing electoral offences by utilising Government facilities in Nalikwanda. Is it the policy of this House to allow political parties to utilise school facilities when teachers have no accommodation.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That was not the hon. Minister’s part of answer. It was incidentally.

Mr Chimumbwa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, there are so many things that we have heard from the hon. Minister of Education. We have talked about accommodation and allowances such as housing, hardship and traveling allowances for all these teachers who are posted …

Mr Tetamashimba: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious constitutional point of order as a result of today’s news paper The Post.

Mr Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order on Hon. Mtonga and unfortunately, Hon. Astridah Mwamba sitting in Parliament as Members of Parliament representing Kanyama and Lukashya Parliamentary Constituencies respectively. I will not repeat the same on the other hon. Members of Parliament stated in the Post because I have already raised that point of order.

Mr Speaker, this House stands for integrity and when Mr Speaker makes a ruling, that ruling stands a test of time both to people in this House and outside this House. Members of Parliament should be the last people to abrogate what the past has raised in this House, as doing so, will cause anarchy.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member standing and speaking was elected Member of Parliament for Solwezi West on the National Party ticket in 1996. In 2002, about that time, the UPND and many are here and National Party (NP) signed a Memorandum of Understanding in which the two parties formed an alliance called UPND in which the NP was offered the position of Secretary-General of the alliance. The memorandum of understanding agreed that the Secretary-General of the UPND NP alliance would have the title of alliance Secretary-General and be nominated from the National Party.

National Party appointed the speaker on the Floor to be the alliance Secretary-General. At all meetings and conferences of UPND at which Mwana mubotu, late Anderson Kambela Mazoka was addressing, the speaker on the Floor had a tag of alliance Secretary-General. The former Vice-President of UPND, now President of United Liberal Party (ULP), Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, MP, the former National Chairman of UPND, Hon. Henry Mtonga and Hon. Astridah Mwamba who was a member of UPND will attest to the statement.

Mr Kambwili: Who were naiwe!

Mr Tetamashimba: They said the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the UPND and National Party (NP) was submitted to Parliament through the Clerk of the National Assembly. The UPND Alliance stated that the NP would not stand at the conventions on any other senior position other than that of secretary general and two other chairpersons.

Mr Speaker, in 2001, the Standing Orders Committee of this House, without even hearing the speaker on the Floor on his membership, decided that the speaker on the Floor was associating himself with the UPND and therefore, was duo member of the UPND and NP. Since Parliament does not allow duo membership, the speaker on the Floor was expelled from the National Assembly without consideration of the MOU signed between UPND and NP submitted to the National Assembly.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker, this means that the MOU between …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Tetamashimba: … parties not on the lines of the current UPND, UNIP and FDD are illegal in the House. Only an alliance like the one that we had from those three parties can be recognised.

Interruptions

Mr Tetamashimba: The letter of expulsion from Parliament was given to the hon. Member of Parliament speaking on the Floor to his lawyers at Central Chambers and Hon. Sakwiba was representing the UPND/NP Members free of charge most of the times.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: It was known to all senior UPND leaders including Hon. Mtonga that Hon. Sakwiba Sikota did not go to court because it did not take long before Parliament was dissolved paving way for the 2001 Elections in which the speaker on the Floor, Mr Speaker, won his seat and came back to Parliament.

Hon. Mtonga, as National Chairman of the UPND then  and of course Hon. Mwamba, who was a lawyer working for Central Chambers where she is at today, was more than aware of the expulsion of the speaker on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, in the 2006 Tripartite Elections, there were five political parties that formed alliances. One was among three political parties namely UPND, FDD and UNIP, forming the United Democratic Alliance (UDA). These parties registered themselves with the Electoral Commission of Zambia. This was to legitimise their alliance with the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

The other one, not on paper or MOU was between the PF and ULP. The PF President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata is on record, and the Members of Parliament will attest to this. He wrote a letter not only to the Members of Parliament, but also to this House saying that the PF was on its own and Members of Parliament, each one of them, received a letter for the PF President telling them that PF had no alliance with any other political party.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Tetamashimba: And Hon. Mtonga is aware of this. It is this letter Mr Speaker, that has made Hon. Mtonga resign from the ULP.

Mr Speaker, The Post does not write hearsay stories…

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Tetamashimba: … when this paper writes a story …

Interruptions

Mr Tetamashimba: … they have empirical evidenc.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Tetamashimba: I will repeat!

Mr Speaker, The Post does not write hearsay stories. When this Paper writes a story, they have empirical evidence.

Mr Speaker, in the Post Newspaper today, Friday, 16th February, 2007, Number 3774 on the front page, is the headline and I quote,

 “Mtonga, Lubinda ditch Saki for Sata.”

The story of the Post Reporter Bivan Saluseki opens with the following statement and I quote:

“United Liberal Party Vice-President Henry Mtonga and Spokes Persons Given Lubinda have resigned their positions in the party and opted to continue with Patriotic Front Membership.”

Hon. PF Members: To continue!

Mr Tetamashimba: I will lay the Newspaper on the Table.

In the story comes in the name, unfortunately of Astridah Mwamba the Member of Parliament for Lukasha who until she resigned from ULP was the National Chairperson for Women. The ditching of ULP and Hon. Sakwiba Sikota by the trio Members was after PF President wrote both to this House and the hon. Members of Parliament that there was no alliance and they should choose between belonging to the ULP or PF.

You may also recall that in my previous point of order I stated that Sata of the PF denied there being any alliance between UPL and PF.

Interruptions

Hon. Mulongoti: Listen!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, as at January, 2007 before the trio resigned, they were members of UPL and PF. Their resigning, Mr Speaker, confirms their duo membership of these parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Not of associating. No! Not of associating like it was between me and UPND, but of their confirmed duo membership.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, the law on Members of Parliament who hold duo Membership is very clear. For people whose evidence of membership and not association, like was the case with the speaker on the Floor, cannot be allowed to go against the constitutional requirements of hon. Members of this House which is that no hon. Member shall keep his seat when he holds duo membership.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, are the two hon. Members in order to be in this House claiming to be representing PF when they were actually holding duo Membership as at January, 2007 and even at 2008 because in my last point or order, I presented evidence as of one of the persons involved in this duo membership.

Mr Speaker, I need your very serious ruling because if we do not, the integrity and impartiality and the continuous existence of this Body, will not be recognised and respected by the people out there who perceive us, who are here, as being people who are just here and can move from one party to another at their own convenience.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, it is my hope that this is stopped once and for all. Unless decisions are made on people who hold duo membership harshly, even on those who associate, the integrity of this House is gone.

Hon. Government Members: Lelo lelo!

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling and I will lay this paper on the Table.

Mr Tetamashimba Laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply did raise a similar point of order recently in that case on one hon. Member. The point of order he has now raised adds two other names of hon. Members to that list. As the House will recall, I did refer the earlier point of order for consideration to the Committee to deal with Members’ privileges. I believe the investigation is on-going.

Quite obviously, in view of the developments, the additional points or matters that have been raised in the point of order will also be added on to the assignment by the Committee on Members’ privileges. This is simply to inform the Members of the House, especially those who are new that your Committee system is very thorough and very impartial. Nothing will be over looked until the truth, in accordance with the law is ascertained.

Mr Chimumbwa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, the Government has been making strides to cushion the impact of problems that teachers who are posted in the rural areas face. We have discussed the problems of accommodation, housing allowances, hardship and traveling allowances. All these things, with the assurances that we have been getting from the Government are being addressed, but there is one important component, which is not being tackled. This is of marriage.

Mr Speaker, here is a young girl…

Mr Speaker: Order! You are debating. Ask your question.

Mr Chimumbwa: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell us what the Government is doing to make sure that there are men and women to marry the young teachers you send to rural areas.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That supplementary question is not related to Question No. 296, important though it is.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education whether the people posted to the rural areas will be paid rural hardship allowances. I am asking this question because the Ministry of Education has stopped paying rural hardship allowances to teachers in Itezhi-tezhi.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Education, I believe, will make a Ministerial Statement in the House on that matter. So, let the hon. Member of Parliament wait.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that teachers spend most of their time offering private tuitions to make ends meet because of the poor conditions of service our humble teachers receive and this has a turning effect on the quality of teaching offered to our children? It is also in this vein that Government is losing colossal amounts of money to teachers’ salaries who are not teaching, but busy searching for accommodation and food through private tuitions.

Mr Speaker: Order! It is quite clear this subject has been thoroughly dealt with and that is also irrelevant.{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES AND ROADS IN CHITAMBO CONSTITUENCY

297. Mr Hamir (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when a bridge would be constructed on the Luombwa River to Reuben Island in the Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) how many roads and bridges were earmarked for construction in the same constituency in the 2007 Budget.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, Sir, in 2004, through the Provincial Roads Engineer (PRE), currently called Regional Engineers, my ministry had carried out and supervised the following road projects in the Chitambo Constituency:

Katikulula Main Road  18 km

Shadreck Mailo Road  7 km

Fikondo Road   7 km

Chitambo Memorial Service Road 

Mr Speaker, bush clearing, road formation and construction of culverts were the works done on Katikulula Main Road, Shadreck Mailo Road and Fikondo Road. Heavy grading was done only on Chitambo Memorial Service Road.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has studied the prevailing situation on the proposed location for the construction of the proposed bridge across Luombwa River. The findings are as follows:

(i) The existing river is more than 100 metres wide;

(ii) There exist only four villages across the proposed point of the construction of the bridge; and

(iii) Access to reach the proposed point of construction of the bridge is traversed by footpath and is near the old Tutwa Road. Once you cross the river, you are almost in our friendly neighbour, the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Sir, regarding the foregoing, the ministry has to carry out the feasibility study in order to justify the construction of the bridge across the Luombwa River to Reuben Island. Based on the outcome of the study and availability of funds, the proposed bridge across Luombwa River to Rueben Island can be constructed. 
Mr Speaker, however, the ministry has no immediate plans to construct a bridge across the Luombwa River to Rueben Island because of limited funds. The ministry does not intend to commission new projects until the on-going projects are completed.

Roads and bridges earmarked for construction

Mr Speaker, because of the reduced Budget ceiling, all projects under the Provincial Roads Engineer (PRE) and the current Regional Engineer have been removed from the 2007 Work plan. If they are not appearing on the 2008 Work Plan, they can only appear on the 2009 Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

ZAMBIA’S LOCAL DEBT

298. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) what Zambia’s current local debt was;

(b) how much local debt, in Zambian Kwacha the Government had liquidate to-date; and

(c) when the remaining local debt would be liquidated.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that as to part (a) of the answer, this question was asked before the presentation of the budget at paragraphs 29, 30 and 31 of my Budget Address, I have given the information indicating that as at end of December 2006, the local debt stock was K7,686.96 billion and we have brought that to the nearest in the book. Of this amount K6,692.68 billion or to the nearest K6,700 are Government securities.

Mr Speaker, let me explain that Government securities are defined as Treasury Bills and Bonds. These are debts incurred by the Government seeking money and going to the nation to sell bonds and bills. If the public who buy these bonds and bills as part of their individual and personal investment, when we float a bond for ten years, a member of the public who has surplus funds which they might not need immediately will buy a Government Bond with a maturity of ten years. This simply means that when they keep that certificate, they only bring it back to Government to recover the principle after ten years.

During and in between, the Government pays interest on that amount of money. So, it is the individual who is interested to be getting a monthly payment by Government on the amount of money they have left in the custody of Government for ten years. Therefore, for us that investment is not a problem because it is somebody who has put that investment in a Government Bond.

Sir, we have Treasury Bills from 90 days, 180, and 360. Again, if a member of the public learns that the Government is selling Treasury Bills because we want to raise money, they go and buy Treasury bills of 180 days in the understanding that in those six months, they will only be receiving interest on their investment. After 180 days, they go and encase the certificate of the Treasury bill and get back their principle amount and close the chapter.

Normally what happens is that individuals who have this kind of money go and roll their investment when it expires. In other words, after 180 days, they go back to their bank and ask the bank to continue their money and buy more Treasury bills for another 180 days. Therefore, they roll over their investment. So, that is not a problem debt.

Sir, the breakdown of the debt was that Government securities in other words, the money or credit that is not of immediate concern to the Government because we are able to pay principle every month and the people that have invested are not interested in encasing the bonds or the Treasury bills was K6,700 billion. Domestic arrears on suppliers of goods and services that will include the issue of those supplying to prisons and those supplying desks to schools was K5, 015 billion. The pension arrears which was the subject discussion last week and this week was K387 billion.

Awards and Compensation

Mr Speaker, these are members of the public, local and foreign who have gone to court on cases that wrongly were done against them by the Government and have won the case was K92.5 billion. As we have learnt this morning in this House, there is a case which might be adjudicated against Government within the next few months. That will be part of the awards and compensation. It will be something that Government never planned for. It just comes and we pay on that basis.

Mr Speaker, as to how much local debt in Zambian Kwacha the Government has liquidated, as I said on Government securities, we are always liquidating the debts by paying interest every month. Those investors who want to encase and stop their bills and bonds we also pay off.

Sir, since 2002 we have made tremendous efforts to try to pay off these arrears and we have paid out K590 billion for suppliers of goods and services and public works would be including contractors doing our work. However, some of these have an interest component like some of the road contractors. So, these arrears keep on rising because of the interest that is going on everyday.

Sir, since 2002, Government has paid K142.4 billion towards liquidating this. In the MTEF from 2006 to 2008, we have programmed that 1. 5 per cent of GDP will be attached to these arrears because we want to pay off all the pension arrear as quickly as possible. So, we have now formalised that we must have a specific amount which comes before this House as part of the payment.

Awards and Compensation

Sir, as regards awards of compensation, we have paid K175.3 billion towards the liquidation since 2002. Obviously, as I have indicated, you pay one today and if we had some yesterday, by today, some case is being decided in the courts of law against the Government. Therefore, this comes back and builds on and on. We have done very well, we reduced the figure for example, up to December, by paying a total of K49.8 billion against the cases in 2005, but by end of 2006, The amount had again built up to K92.5 billion. It keeps on going up.

Mr Speaker, we always mention the debts of 2002, most of these arrears were actually incurred before the New Deal Government came in.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: In 2002, when the new President took office, he realised that this was a very important aspect over our financial management. So, he decided to ask all the ministries and spending agencies to surrender all the outstanding debts up to December 2002, to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for payment. Then after that, we instituted strict measures that no controlling officers should accumulate any more debts. That is why the figure on suppliers is a little bit less than the one on court cases and contractors. We told the controlling officers that they were not supposed to live beyond their means. If they had no money deposited at a filing station, they were not go there and get petrol promising to pay the next day as Government did not work on nkongole  or on future payments. We work on a budget and money is supposed to be released on the basis of what has been requested. That is what you go and pay and draw the goods and the services.

On (c) which talks about when the remaining local debt will be liquidated the local debt in as far as Government securities is concerned, will never be liquidated. This is part of Government operations. You only go to the market to borrow when you need money urgently before you get your revenue from the tax payers. And that is why we roll over this money. And on a monthly or quarterly basis, we go to the market to ask those who would want to invest their money in treasury bills and bonds to actually put their money.

Over the pension arrears, Mr Speaker, I have already said that during the MTEF, we intend to spend 1.5 per cent of GDP in these arrears so that we can get rid of them as quickly as possible.

On awards and compensations, as Hon. Muntanga has already heard, this again, will only be gotten rid of when Government is no longer being sued. Government being a very big organisation, every time every day, there will be somebody dissatisfied with government action and they will go to court and we obviously, we will keep on paying.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

DIVERTION OF FRA FROM FERTISER MARKETING TO MAINTENANCE OF STRATEGIC FOOD RESERVES

299. Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives when the Food Reserve Agency would divert from fertiliser marketing to maintenance of strategic food reserves.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) never handles fertiliser marketing. FRA ceased to be involved in fertiliser marketing during the inception of the Fertiliser Support Programme in the 2002/2003 agricultural season. Since then the FRA has only been buying designated food crops for the strategic food reserves throughout the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, in maintaining food reserves for the country, I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister if there is an intention of revamping all the ex NAMBOARD silos across the country.

Mr Speaker: If the Hon. Member for Kantanshi looks closely at Question 299, he will find out that, following the reply given by the Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, there should be no supplementary question arising there from because the question is not applicable.

TOTAL NATIONAL INDEBTEDNESS OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO THEIR WORKERS

300. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) what the total national indebtedness of local authorities to their workers in terms of wages and salaries was; and

(b) what measures the Government had taken to clear the backlog of arrears.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this House that the total indebtedness of councils to their employees in terms of salaries and wages stood at K7, 044, 051, 227 as at 31st December, 2006.

The Government has taken the following measures to help councils clear the backlog of arrears.

(i) Mr Speaker, from 2002, Government has been providing funds to councils to pay out retrenched workers in councils throughout the country so that councils can concentrate on paying salaries to their workers without worrying about paying out retrenchment packages. So far, Government has released over K50 billion towards this exercise;

(ii) Government through my ministry has been encouraging councils to come up with various by-laws that are aimed at improving their revenue base so that they are able to meet their financial obligations; and

(iii) Government has also been providing councils with general grants on yearly basis out of which about 40 per cent is purely for service delivery and the balance of 60 per cent for salaries and wages and other related expenses such as statutory obligations to Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA).

I thank you, Sir.

COST AND COMPLETION OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE MUTANDA/CHAVUMA ROAD

301. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how much money had been spent on the construction of Mutanda/Chavuma Road as of December, 2006;

(b) how long it had taken the Government to tar the road from Mutanda to Kasempa turn-off; and

(c) when construction of the road would be completed.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, the amount of money spent on the Mutanda/Chavuma road as of December 2006 is US$42 million, broken down as follows:

Mutanda/Kasempa Turn Off (103 km) US$19,093,634.13
Kasempa Turn Off to Kasempa (44 km) US$6,711,027.22
Kasempa Boma to Mukinge Hospital (6.5 km) US$2,206,973.31
Kasempa Turn Off to Kabompo (225 km) US$13,593,930.01

Mr Speaker, construction of the road from Mutanda to Kasempa Turn Off commenced on 9th February, 1997 and was completed in October, 1999. The road from Kasempa Turn Off to Kasempa and Mukinge Hospital was an extention. These roads were not part of the original contract and were included to provide a good road to Kasempa Boma and Mukinge Hospital. This road was done between 2000 and 2004.

(b) Mr Speaker, the road from Kasempa Turn Off to Kabompo is 225 kilometers long and only 22 kilometers has been tarred so far. The tarring of the road started in March, 2004 after a delay of four years from the original start date of March, 2000. Mr Speaker, this was due to the variation in the contract to include Kasempa Boma and Mukinge Hospital.

The contract sum to tar Kasempa Turn Off to Kabompo is US$46 million. At the moment, the money allocated to this road per year is only enough to do 20 kilometers per year. And if this remains the funding per year, it will take ten years to reach Kabompo.

It is important to mention here that the present contract is to tar Mutanda/Kabompo road and not Muntanda/Chavuma road. This means that the stretch between Kabompo-Zambezi-Chavuma will be another contract, when the Kasempa Turn Off to Kabompo is done. As a result, it is difficult to determine when the road from Kabompo to Chavuma will be done.

Needless to say the delay on this road is due to the level of funding. The contractor, Belga Construction has the capacity to complete the stretch from Kasempa Turn Off to Kabompo in two years if funding is made available.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, last year the Minister of Works and Supply informed the nation that the Mutanda/Chavuma Road would be completed by November this year 2007. Today, the hon. Deputy Minister is saying, it will take ten years. May I find out from the hon. Minister when exactly this road will be completed because the Government is coming up with conflicting information?

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker,  …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we are two minutes late from break. This is unacceptable.

Could the hon. Deputy Minister continue, please.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, as Deputy Minister I am not in a position to make a comment on a statement that is perceived to have been spoken by a Cabinet Minister especially that I have not had chance to read that particular statement. Concerning the period, I would like to say that if the hon. Member head my answers clearly on the ten years that I mentioned, I was referring to the fact that the money that this House approves every year for that road is very little because the Government and the Zambian people cannot afford to put so much money on the roads across the country. So what the Government has been doing is to apportion the money. For example, in the current Yellow Book there is a provision of about K20 billion and that money cannot take us more than 20 kilometres of tarmac. This is the more reason why as a ministry we were very impressed when we heard from some Members of Parliament that may be in future the Government should be targeting able roads in two provinces every year so that what you fear cannot happen. So, the current contractor on the road, BOGA Construction who, Mr Speaker, has been very good to us, is willing for example to tar the roads up to 100 kilometres a year, if finances were available. Obviously, if the Zambian people had capacity to pay in terms of taxes and what we raised to where the road where we come from we would have about K100 billion every year. That could be done in two years. So, I was referring, hon. Member of Parliament, to the amount that will be apportioned to the Mutanda/Chavuma road. The more we apportion the less time it will take to complete the road.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, for many years now in this House, we have always heard of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. The hon. Deputy Minster has reported to this House that the completion of the project from Kabompo to Chavuma, if I heard him correctly, will be a new contract. Now, what has happened to the original concept of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road as one complete project?

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, in 1997 is when the former Government of President Chiluba started putting money on that road. So, what we are saying is that the contract that was signed for the Government to provide a tarmac on that road from Mutanda was up to Kabompo. It is the politicians that would say Mutanda/Chavuma Road because it is one trunk road. Of course, the vision of the Government is to have roads like Mutanda up to Chavuma and so on. The original contract which is there today, states that the current contract is for us to do up to Kabompo. That does not mean that this Government is not going to sign another contract, be it the current contractor or any other person when we finish the first contract. In fact, if there was money we would have had another contractor starting to do the road from Chavuma so that they meet on the way. Therefore, the position is that the current contract is up to Kabompo, but this Government intends, money being available, to have another contractor or a new contract signed from Kabompo to Chavuma.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would have wanted the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to be present. I want a specific answer regarding the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. Will the Government ever find money to ensure that they fulfil the pronouncements given in this House? In campaigns they were saying this road would be done in a year, now, they are talking of ten years. Mr Speaker, these are the people who voted this Government into power. When will Government ensure that money is found to actually tar Mutanda/Chavuma not to mention the story of  the Choma/Namwala Road which has been a song for forty years?

Mr Tetamshimba: Mr Speaker, I do not want to answer by bringing in politics. Hon. Member for Kalomo I will give you an answer that you would get even if the hon. Minster was around. We have not stated that it will take ten years for us to finish that road. What we are saying is that, with the current funding it will take ten years to complete the road.

Hon. Opposition Member: It is the same.

Mr Tetamashimba: That is what we are saying. Now, the other thing that I stated on the Floor is that there is no money to go round all the roads in this country, unless, the Members of Parliament and I am very grateful that they seem to be answering in unison. If you can tell the ministry that the Minister of Finance and National Planning the money that he has put in the budget to do the roads, K20 billion for Chavuma and so on. If you are going to direct him to put all that money on the Mutanda/Chavuma, I can tell you that by June or July next year, 2008, the road will be tarred from Mutanda to Chavuma. So, it is …

Interruptions

Mr Tetamashimba: … that is all we are trying to tell you and it is a fact. So, if that is what you are saying, please, tell the hon. Minister Finance and National Planning to vary then the road will be finished. I can tell you that if we had decided as Members of Parliament just to do the roads in Northern Province with the money available now, by next year 2008 people of Northern Province would not be talking about the trunk roads. That is for every other province even Southern Province, if all the money was put in Southern Province which is in the budget this year for roads, one year will be enough to finish all the roads there. Some of you yesterday were debating that if this is not done in my constituency, then, this budget as far as I am concerned is irrelevant. I am sure the Member of Parliament for Katombola was telling us that.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: So, because of that we have been trying to share the cake so that each province can get a piece. I can tell you that, if the Members of Parliament wanted the Minister of Works and Supply and hon. Mooya will agree with me that we will only do two provinces every year with all the monies from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning we can manage to do that by 2010, all the provinces will be talking about major trunk roads.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Momba): Mr Speaker, I am so concerned about the way that we are doing business in the construction of roads. I heard the hon. Deputy Minister say that the six kilometres was executed at a US$2 million and that translates into US$350,000 per kilometres as against US$200,000 per kilometre. May I know why there is that gap, the difference of US$150, 000 per kilometre. Where did it go?

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, as a ministry we get very interested when the hon. Member stands to ask questions especially on works and supply. This is because that is the profession he has had and which is at the heart of hon. Mooya.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the figures that we have brought before this House, the hon. Member of Parliament will agree with me that these jobs were done at the time he was in the ministry. When we were asking the cost of the 6 kilometres, we were given the amount of US$2.6 million. However, what is coming on the Floor through a question from Hon. Mooya is a professional question where he is disputing like a professional that to do this number of kilometre, it cannot cost this amount. I think that is what he is trying to raise. Because he believes that what is supposed to be spent on 6 kilometres is not US$2.6 million but less, he is asking how it was spent.

I thank you for that question and I will be sitting down in my management meetings to find out why it was costing us so much money above what we would have spent. Obviously, when they try to dispute, we shall be the first ones to invite Hon. Mooya to come and put the arguments for us with his other professionals.

Mr Speaker, if we discover that tax payers’ money was misused, as the hon. Member of Parliament is implying that it was put in their pockets, I can assure you that the ministry will inform the nation about that issue because we believe in transparency in this New Deal Administration.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

ACTION TAKEN AGAINST CHIEFS INVOLVED IN POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS DURING 2006 TRIPARTITE ELECTIONS

302. Mr Ntundu asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing what action the Government had taken against Chiefs who were openly involved in political campaigns during the 2006 Tripartite Elections.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this House that Government has not taken any action on chiefs who were purported to have been involved in political campaigns during the 2006 Tripartite Elections. This is because no official complaints were received from political parties or members of the public indicating that some chiefs where involved in such activities.

Sir, however, there were stories from the print media suggesting that some chiefs were supporting certain political parties though this was not taken as sufficient evidence to warrant Government taking action against the named chiefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, it is well known by every hon. Member of this House that in one of the media …

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask your question, please.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, the question is, in one of the print media, the chiefs did admit having campaigned …

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask your question, please.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that in one of the medias that he has mentioned, the chiefs admitted that they were campaigning for the MMD and were asking for payment?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, we are not aware as Government that there is any chief that was campaigning openly for any particular political party. What we are aware of is that chiefs have a right to vote for any political party of their choice.

Now, the statement that was attributed to Chieftainess Chiawa in The Post newspaper at the Official Opening of the House of Chiefs when they were having an Orientation Workshop, she did not say that she was supporting any particular political party. What she said was that this Government was supported by areas which were traditional and therefore, people in those areas expected Government to deliver. Obviously, she is right. If somebody supports you, they expect you to give back in terms of goods and services.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, if at all, chiefs have ever campaigned for any political party, is there any constitutional restriction for them to do so?

Dr Scott held the microphone for Mrs Masebo.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, there is a provision in the Electoral Code of Conduct. Chiefs are part of Government and as custodians of their subjects they are expected to be neutral although they have a right to vote for any party of their choice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lusaka Central.

Mr Scott asked Mrs Masebo to hold the microphone for him.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I wonder if the hon. Minister could enlighten us as to what she would count as evidence of bias on the part of chiefs towards the ruling party if she does not count Chieftainess Chiawa’s own statement.

Mr Scott held the microphone for Mrs Masebo again.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I would not say that her statement would amount to openly campaigning for a particular party except that it is a well known fact that the Member of Parliament who is holding my microphone said that they are wrong people and people voted for the goodies. Therefore, obviously, all the chiefs in Zambia know that MMD consist of good people and PF …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. House will recall that following the point of order that was raised yesterday by the hon. Member for Lukulu East, Mr Imenda, I ruled that the Acting Leader of Government Business should ensure that the minister responsible on the matter related to teachers in Senanga should make a Ministerial Statement in the House, any time before 1255 hours today. The House will recall that I did call on him earlier on. However, he was not ready at the time. Since he is here and the time is before 1255 hours, he would soon be making the Ministerial Statement.

The House, however, does appreciate the fact the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business, out of courtesy, apologised to the House for the delay taken in preparing the ministerial statement. In fact, there was no need for him to apologise because the hon. Minister of Education is still within the time limit that I had ruled he should deliver his ministerial statement.

I have now permitted the hon. Minister of Education to make a ministerial statement.

STRIKE BY TEACHERS IN SENANGA DISTRICT OF WESTERN PROVINCE

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, first of all, let me thank you for allowing me to present the ministerial statement at this point. The delay in presenting the statement earlier was because the ministry was putting together all the necessary detailed information which would fulfill the directive that you gave yesterday. I am now pleased to state that all the necessary information pertaining to the case has been put together and the statement is now ready to be presented before the House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move and make a ministerial statement on the strike by teachers in Senanga District as raised by the hon. Member.

Mr Speaker, the strike by teachers in Senanga District of Western Province started on Thursday, 1st February, 2007. This followed the withdrawal of rural hardship allowance following the recommendation by the Provincial Senior Internal Auditor based in Mongu. In his recommendation, the Provincial International Auditor recommended that, and I quote:

‘Teachers in schools within the township and officers at the District Education Board Secretary’s Office were erroneously receiving rural hardship allowance contrary to the provisions of the Public Service Management Division Circular No. B14 of 2003 dated 16th May, 2003.’

He further recommended that the payment of rural hardship allowance to such officers be stopped forthwith. The District Education Board Secretary’s Office consequently complied with the recommendation by the Senior Internal Auditor. When the teachers noticed that their rural hardship allowance had been discontinued, they complained to the District Education Board Secretary, Provincial Education Officer’s Office and the union representatives while at the same time threatening to go on strike.

Mr Speaker, the Provincial Education Officer tried his best to persuade the teachers not to go on an illegal strike as he was trying to seek clarification on the issues raised by the teachers. During his address to the teachers, he was accompanied by the union officials from the Secondary School Teachers Union of Zambia (SSTUZ) and the Zambia National Union of Teachers (ZNUT). This particular meeting was held at Senanga High School. During this meeting, the Provincial Education Officer and the union officials explained the contents of the above mentioned circular while at the same time appealing to the teachers not to go on an illegal strike. It must be noted that when it became apparent that the teachers were adamant and wanted to proceed with their illegal strike, their elected representatives, the union leaders, also went back to address them at different dates. One of such meetings was addressed by Mr Nyirenda, a Director from the Zambia National Union of Teachers, who traveled all the way from Lusaka. He was followed by Mr Sefulo Nyambe, President of the Secondary Teachers Union of Zambia on 18th January, 2007.

Mr Speaker, in spite of the efforts made by the Provincial Education Office, the District Education Board Secretary and the union representatives from the district, provincial and national levels, the teachers went on strike on 1st February, 2007. Efforts were made by the District Education Board Secretary to persuade them to call off their strike, but to no avail. When the District Education Board Secretary called for a meeting with the teachers to resolve the issue amicably, the teachers refused to meet the District Education Board Secretary and his team.

Mr Speaker, the schools affected in this illegal strike are as follows:

(i) Senanga High School;
(ii) Senanga Basic School;
(iii) Namalango Basic School; 
(iv) Litambya Basic School; and
(v) Senanga Hospital Teaching Unit.

A total of eighty-six teachers were involved in this illegal strike. Since all the efforts to persuade the teachers to return to work had failed, the District Education Board Secretary for Senanga charged the teachers and called upon them to exculpate themselves why disciplinary action should not be taken against them for going on an illegal strike. Sad enough, all the teachers wrote the same type of exculpatory letter differing only in their names.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: As such, in line with the terms of the conditions of service for Civil servants and the disciplinary procedures, the District Education Board Secretary was compelled to suspend the teachers who had gone on the illegal strike. Appended is a list of schools affected by this strike and a list of the names of teachers who are on this illegal strike.

Mr Speaker, the issue at hand is that of indiscipline by teachers who went on strike rather than the issue of rural hardship allowance because teachers were assured that their elected representatives were following up this issue together with the Public Service Management Division who are in charge of permit and payroll in the Ministry of Education.

Teachers and other workers in the Ministry of Education should desist from engaging themselves in illegal strikes and follow laid down procedures. In this instance, while my office continues to embrace the civilised tenets of solving issues through dialogue, the teachers on the other hand, rebuffed both their union officials and education managers.

Mr Speaker, we, as a ministry, have informed the teachers to be a bit patient concerning the issue of rural hardship allowance as the Public Service Management Division and other ministries have already completed the re-definition of rural hardship allowance. This has been worked out with the full participation of the unions whose committee constituted the Secretary to the Cabinet.

On the other hand, my officers in Senanga followed the procedures as stipulated in the Service Commission Disciplinary Code and procedures for handling offences in the public service. In this vein, teachers in Senanga have been charged for going on an illegal strike and are supposed to exculpate themselves to show cause as to why disciplinary measures should not be taken against them for going on an illegal strike. The maximum penalty for these offences is dismissal.

Mr Speaker, the Provincial Education Disciplinary Committee is reviewing the cases and this House will be informed of the final outcome.

The schools that were affected are:
Litambya Basic  11
Senanga Basic  27
Senanga High School 20
Namalangu Basic  37
Hospital Teaching Unit 4
Mr Speaker, I lay the statement on the Table, and beg to move.

Professor Lungwangwa laid the paper on the Table.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, whilst recognising the good elaborate answer by the hon. Minister of Education, I recognise that the losers…

Mr Speaker: Order! You may not debate, question.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker does the hon. Minister recognise the fact that the losers in this whole saga are the pupils who have not been benefiting from …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is debating. This is a sort of subject where you go directly to your question.

Laughter

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, what measures is the hon. Minister doing to save the children that have lost out from the time that they have not been learning?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, every effort will be made to ensure that the contact hours that have been lost by the children are recovered so that there is no loss in the teaching/learning process.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: How?

Mr Sinyinda (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Education whether he is aware that the very circular that he has talked about, until the end of last year was not there. I am a former Head Teacher for Senanga Secondary School.

Secondly, does he know that some civil servants within Senanga are getting rural hardship allowance?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the circular I referred to was issued in 2003. So, the circular has been around. The only problem was the enforcement of the circular at district level.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! Let me guide the House. The issue of that circular as well as the Act governing hon. Members’ constituencies was a subject of a question in this House before the time of the majority of the hon. Members that I see here. I then issued instructions for the Executives to circulate that very circular to all hon. Members of the House.

It is necessary, again, to have that circular re-circulated to the hon. Members of Parliament. You will discover in there that the term rural area is defined differently from the way a rural constituency is defined.

Therefore, it may be necessary hon. Minister to lay that circular, yet, again, on the Table when you finish using it so that it may be reproduced for re-circulation to all hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that they have now re-designed the terms of the rural hardship allowance after negotiations. Why was it necessary for the District Educational Board (DEBs) in Senanga to withdraw the hardships on a recommendation when they have found it necessary to review and consider the riotous behaviour? When teachers withdraw they are punished. Why are they punishing teachers when they have also found it necessary to review the housing allowance?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the circular in question is in force and has been in force ever since 2003. Most of the districts that are affected have complied with the circular. As part of the public fund controls, the implementation of the circular in Senanga is in compliance with the circular itself as it is implemented in other districts. Therefore, it is not a punishment on the teachers, but a compliance with the circular as it has been enforced elsewhere.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, in answering the question from Hon. Musokotwane, the hon. Minister did leave us in suspense on how he is handling cases of illegal strikes. Are illegal strikes in this ministry a symptom of the failure to address teachers’ grievances structurally or is it just a blatant abuse or lack of obey to the law?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is very well aware that an illegal strike is not something that you can predict because it is simply an illegal strike. It is an action taken by a group of people contrary to the provisions of their conditions of service or procedures governing their conditions of service. As unilateral actions that are taken sometimes, it becomes very difficult to take control measures. The only control measure you can take is through dialogue and persuasion on the part of management. Illegal strikes which might take place are not a result of lack of strategies or tact to address the problems. It is simply illegal, spontaneous or unilateral. It is action taken by those who are affected.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s response that there were teachers who were actually receiving rural hardship allowances and they were withdrawn by the circular, I would like to find out from him whether he does not consider the withdraw of the allowances to be unilateral action on the part of Government and illegal, seeing that these people had accrued these rights now to the rural hardship allowance even prior to 2003. As the Government of laws, is he going to confirm that a Government of laws will not take away accrued rights to citizens?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am extremely surprised that…

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: …the hon. Member who is a learned lawyer in this House can stand and advocate a perpetual enforcement of an illegal action which is what this particular allowance that is being or has been paid to the teachers is, in view of the circular that was issued in 2003. I feel very strongly that the hon. member should actually support the enforcement of laws.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell this House what they take into consideration to grade a district rural or urban especially that in very rural or urban places, civil servants in other departments are paid rural hardship allowances?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, following your directive, when the circular is laid on the Table, the hon. Member will be informed as to the contents and the definition of what is applicable.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilembo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, may I know if any action has been taken against those officers who were illegally paying these teachers?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that is part of the process in terms of addressing the problem.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his statement, appeared to be keen to go and dismiss the striking workers in Senanga. May I find out whether the hon. Minister has a reservoir of teachers to replace those in Senanga when he dismisses them given the fact that the staff in Senanga already is understaffed and the ministry has a shortage of teachers?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member is alluding to is not what the hon. Minister has stated in the Ministerial Statement. I stated that a Provincial Disciplinary Committee has been constituted which is looking at each and every case.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, my heart bleeds for the teachers.

Mr Speaker: Order! Question.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, hearing the explanation given by the hon. Minister and also the one given by the hon. Member for Senanga, who was a former headmaster of Senanga Secondary School which is one of the schools that are affected, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister if there is a remote possibility that there is a break in communication in the manner in which this matter arrived at, especially that the former headmaster who only left because he was coming to Parliament…

Mr Magande: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling. You have referred sometimes to people who come and start praising people in their former positions in this House. Is the hon. Member for Namwala who is bleeding and should be at the clinic…

Laughter

Mr Magande: … in order to tell us that hon. Member for Senanga is speaking in this House as a former headmaster when in fact he should be an hon. Member of Parliament for the whole Senanga Constituency and not for Senanga Secondary School? I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! My serious ruling on the point of order that has been raised by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is that there should be no reference to the previous positions that any of you held as justifying the action that you may take or the position you may portray in this House. That ruling has always stood.

The hon. Member for Namwala may rephrase his question.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, thank you for that guidance. I bleed from the heart internally…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! I did guide the hon. Member to avoid editorialising and simply launch his supplementary question.

Continue, please.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, suppose there was just lack of communication in this whole matter, does the hon. Minister not realise what sort of reaction you would get from the child if  you suddenly withdraw the milk you have been giving it?. Is there not an element of equity which we should address in this matter?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member used the term equity which I think is very important in this particular issue.

In fact, if I could dwell on it a little bit with your permission, equity means treating equals equally. There can be vertical equity, horizontal equity or intergenerational equity.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, in this case, the issue is the first definition of equity which means the treatment of equals equally. If some teachers are not getting the same allowance of that allowance, it is imperative that the principle of equity governs other areas in this case, Senanga teachers.

Mr Speaker: The Clerk will now read the…

Mr C. B. K. Banda and Dr Njovu indicated.

Mr Speaker: We still have two other Supplementary Questions from that corner.

Mr C. B. K. Banda: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Education clarify as to who is to blame between the recipients of the allowance and the perpetrators of the alleged irregular payment?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, as long as the mistake has been detected and in the interest of prudent financial management with which this House is concerned, it is therefore, important and necessary that steps are taken to correct a wrong and this is what has been done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Njovu: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister to give us names of the people who he continued paying erroneously because keeping quiet about the names encourages continuous paying of erroneous amounts?

Mr Speaker: Order! I believe the whole House is already aware that – that is not admissible because the people behind those names are not members of this House and they can not defend themselves. As you have heard, action is taking place elsewhere.

_____{mospagebreak}

MOTION

BUDGET 2007

(Debate resumed)

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise some of the issues in this Year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba, Hon. Matongo for the advice given to this House that we have to debate issues and not personalities because our people out there want us to deliver.

Mr Speaker, I want to raise four issues in this Year’s Budget.

Sir, the first issues is on the road infrastructure. Sir, in this year’s Budget, Government has allocated K787 billion. If you look at the projects which we have in the entire country, that amount of money cannot take us anywhere.

Mr Speaker, I would like to give specific examples on certain major projects. We have been talking about Mutanda/Chavuma Road for more than ten years.

Hon. PF Members: Twenty!

Mr D. Mwila: Actually, for more than twenty years.

Mr Speaker, we have been talking about the Choma/Namwala Road for more than twenty years. We have also been talking about the Mongu/Kalabo Road and Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa Road. The Great East Road is no exceptional.

Further, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply informed this House that only K20 billion will be allocated to each project annually and that K20 billion can only do 20 kilometers.

Mr Speaker, at the pace we are moving, roads like Mutanda/Chavuma, Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa, and Mongu/Kalabo will take us more than thirty and fifteen years respectively.

Mr Speaker, all that I am saying is that Government must increase on that allocation. It must also find money to work on these projects. It is the responsibility of Government to find the money.

Sir, it is in this House where we have suggested that investors must pay more tax for this country to benefit.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the second issue is that of shortage of medical personnel. I thought it was only in my constituency where we have this shortage. When I was going through one document, I discovered that even Lumwana and Kapijimpanga Rural Health Centres are in the same situation.

Mr Speaker, you would discover that in Chipili Constituency cleaners and watchmen are the ones attending to patients.

Hon. PF Members: Shame!

Mr D. Mwila: Sir, to make matters worse, our expecting mothers are being attended to by watchmen and that is unacceptable.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: You are lying!

Mr D. Mwila: I am not lying.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: I want to repeat because this is happening and the Minister of Health is aware. Women who are expecting are being attended to by cleaners. That is unacceptable.

Hon. PF Members: Tell them!

Mr D. Mwila: There must be a change to that. Since Government has promised that they will employ 1,950 medical personnel, we expect it to fulfil that.

Mr M. B. Mwale: On a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 Hon. PF Members: Aah!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to mislead this House and call traditional birth attendants as cleaners?

Hon. PF Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member may continue.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to talk about the workers’ plight. The problems workers in Government face. This Government has failed the workers in this country. Why do I say so?

Mr Kambwili: Beebe!

Mr D. Mwila: In last year’s budget Personal Emoluments was K2.7 trillion, in this year’s budget it is K3.4 trillion. In percentage form, that is 20 to 25 per cent increase. Our teachers get K700,000 and they are suffering. And this House will agree with me that K700,000 is equivalent to some senior government official’s allowance for talk time.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: They do not even buy!

Mr D. Mwila: If teachers are given 20 per cent with that level of taxation, it will come to K850, 000. Going by the survey which as been conducted by the ZCTR, a family of six at the moment can manage up to K1.2 million. That does not even include cloths …

Hon. PF Members: Or food!

Mr D. Mwila: Only food. There is a need for the Government to revisit on those figures. Our workers are bitter with this government because they do not want to solve their problems.

Mr Speaker, the issue of housing allowance has been outstanding since 2002. There is an outstanding amount which has not been paid to them from 2002/2003 of K85 billion. This Government has not paid. And I have always been saying that the…

Mr Sikazwe: Give him water!

Mr D. Mwila: No!

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: …. Government is the major employer. Going by the Industrial Relations Act 269, Section 68 (a) and (c), this Government has been violating the labour laws.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mr D. Mwila: How can the Chinese respect us if Government is violating the laws? Sir, not only that, looking at the allocation of housing allowance in this year’s budget, the teachers are getting K100,000 and looking at the allocation it will mean that there will be no increase. It is about K131 billion. Where are we going to as a country? This is just free advice to this government.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, there is need for them to review that allocation because K100, 000 cannot enable teachers to rent houses. Mr Speaker, this is a very serious matter and we expect Government to act on that.

Ms Mulasikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to continue misleading this House and the nation at large that this Government has been employing cleaners to attend to women when he knows too well that there has been a programme to train women in all our rural set ups to attend to fellow women during labour?

Mr Speaker, when I was still a nurse, I was one of those people who made sure that the programme was put on ground. Sir, I am also aware that the two provinces, Northern and Luapula are the ones that have benefited much from that.

Interruptions

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, is it in order for him to continue misleading this House especially now that he is even talking about the housing allowances when he has heard that there has been a lot of money that has been misappropriated by civil servants and that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and other ministries are trying to put all these things in order. I need your guidance, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs has put her point of order very forcefully. That, in fact, is for the benefit and information of the hon. Member for Chipili (Mr D Mwila) who was debating.

Will the hon. Member continue and put that point of order into account as he debates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D Mwila: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order! There is a correction, the Member who raised the point of order is the Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the last item is on Pay-As-You-Earn. Sir, I want to thank Government through the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for increasing on terminal benefits which was K10 million exemption to K20 million. I commend the Government on that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, in this year’s Budget, the Government has increased the amount of terminal benefits exemption from tax from K320,000 to K500,000 when the Government is aware that teachers and other civil servants will have a small increment and even if they have given this exemption, there will be no difference. So, Sir, I would like to urge the Minister to consider my proposal that whoever gets K1 million should not pay tax. Not only that, Sir, this Government promised the workers that immediately we reach the HIPC completion point we will have a relief in terms of salaries and paying tax, but nothing has happened in this year’s budget.

Mr Speaker, the last issue is the Constitution to which the Government has allocated K1 trillion in this year’s budget. We hope the Government will start the process because we expect the Government ….

Mr Tetamashimba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, is the Member of Parliament who in the last one minute has been debating so well and coolly in order to mislead this House and the nation especially those who are hearing from Livingstone up to Chililabombwe, that in the Yellow Book there is an amount of K1 trillion for the Constitution Review Commission, when the figure is K200 billion.

Interruptions

Mr Tetamashimba: Is he in order to mislead the nation that it is K1 trillion when it is just above K200 billion. I need your serious ruling to clear this misconception by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply is questioning the the amount earmarked for the Constitution process in this year’s estimate of expenditure. However, I was not very certain whether the hon. Deputy Minister himself was certain with what the figures really are.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: He is used the word about or there about. Now, that is very difficult to rule. The Chair, of course, is aware that it is nowhere near  K1 trillion. There was a point there. So, may the hon. Member look up the Yellow Book and give the House the correct figure on this matter.

Will you continue, please.

Mr Mwila: Thank you, Mr Speaker, all what I am saying is that the Government must start the process so that we can have a new Constitution before the end of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Any further debate, any further debate. Perhaps, before the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business joins the debate which I believe is premature in this case, let me share with the House the following statistics: Since, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning moved his motion, only thirteen Members of this House have contributed to this motion. As you can see, it is nearly 12:30 hours and this House is expected to automatically adjourn at 12:55. There is a good 25 minutes to go before the House automatically adjourns. Now, there is a balance of 145 Members who have not yet spoken or debated on this motion. What is happening? It is very rare for an active politician to run out of ideas …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I have never come across a politician who runs out of things to say, in fact, on anything. You can even debate a motion on how when the sun may die and you go on forever.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: What has happened to debating the lives of the people of Zambia through the National Budget? Why has this House run out of ideas? Almost everyday, this House adjourns prematurely. As a result, the hon. Leader of Government Business was about to stand and move the motion to adjourn the House and I am saying, no. Let us debate. Any further debate?

Laughter

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the job-well-done in preparation of the Budget.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: The Budget was well articulated and contained what the President said in his Speech. A Budget can be well presented, but implementation is a problem. What we usually hear after six months of presentation of the Budget is that there is no money and this makes it difficult for the ministries to operate.

Interruptions

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, not only that. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has a problem of releasing money to the ministries very late. This also makes it very difficult for the ministries to operate. Sometimes the money released to ministries is less than what was budgeted for. You will find that a total budget is 100 per cent but only 30 per cent is released for the whole year which makes the ministries very difficult to operate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, when this money is released from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to various ministries, you will find that it is not enough and it will only end at ministerial level. It will not be disbursed to districts who are supposed to benefit.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Mbewe: Therefore, the ministries finish this money and do not send anything to the districts. I wish that this well presented Budget takes into consideration the offices which are at district level. In districts, they do not even know that the Government releases money for their operations. If this can be improved, this well presented budget will have a meaning. However, if this will not be taken into consideration, there will be no cause which will stop all well wishing Zambians from asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to resign from his position.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Minister of Gender-in-Development (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the budget which was presented by the capable hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Peter Ng’andu Magande.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform and remind all hon. Members, especially from the Opposition fraternity that they were part and parcel in the initial stage of formulating the 2007 Budget which emanated from the Fifth National Development Plan 2007-2011 and the Vision 2030. All hon. Members will agree with me that all districts and constituencies were represented by the District Development Co-ordinating Committees (DDCCs) and full council meetings attended by all councillors throughout the country who represent wards.

The budget started from the district level where district commissioners, town clerks and council secretaries chair these meetings. Let me say that this has been a well balanced budget. This is why you can see that even in this House, there will be no further debates because this budget emanated from the district level.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! There will be further debate in this House. Any further debate! We shall be here until someone comes up with an idea.

Hon. Members: Ah.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Any further debate!

Mr Mwaanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order raised on the Chair. No chance.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Any further debate!

The Chair will reprieve the House for today, but with effect from next Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the 141 hon. Members who have not debated should be prepared to debate fully this motion. Each hon. Member is given twenty minutes to debate so that the people who sent you here can really feel that their hon. Member is representing them. Be prepared from next Tuesday, 20th February, 2007.

_________________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1240 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 20th February, 2007.