Debates- Friday, 20th July, 2007

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Friday, 20th July, 2007 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





The Vice-President (Mr Rupiah Banda): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 24th July, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 25th July, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. There after, the House will consider a Private Members Motion to be moved by the hon. Member for Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Given Lubinda, MP, namely; Leave to Introduce a Private Member’s Bill entitled, the Anti-Corruption Commission Amendment Bill, 2007.

Sir, on Thursday, 26th July, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, on Friday 27th July, 2007, the business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Then the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. The House will thereafter consider any business that will not have been completed the previous day.

I thank you, Sir.



Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I would like the Vice-President to tell us when the much promised and nationally agreed National Service Registration, continuously done ward by ward, district by district and province by provinces will commence. There is money in the Budget for this, when is this exercise going to commence?

Secondly, we have women of a high caliber besides women and men who move from one party to the other, and to the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD). We would like to know when women of substance will be appointed to positions of trust in line with the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) Protocol. We would also like to find out what programmes you have to achieve 50 per cent female representation in decision-making positions in the Republic of Zambia. I would like some detailed answers.

The Vice-President (Rupiah Banda): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pemba for raising two questions. However, allow me to answer only one.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Appointing women of a high caliber to decision-making positions in our country by the Government depends on the protocols that we have signed, entitling women to 50 per cent of the positions.

Sir, the process has already started. Many women have been appointed on a continuous basis to different positions in this country. Only a week ago, this House approved an appointment to one of the important committees of this country, almost unanimously.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I can assure my colleague and friend, hon. Member for Pemba that we believe in this process as much as he does. This is because we have seen in other countries, where women have been allowed to participate in the leadership of their country, that development is smoother and efficiently achieved.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwangala (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has plans to persuade our traditional leaders to desist from resolving succession disputes through courts after failing some selection process.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would like to answer the hon. Member properly, but I did not get his question clearly. Can he repeat the question?

Mr Speaker: Traditional leaders are quarreling over issues of succession. How will that be resolved?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for enlightening me on the question.

I thank the hon. Member for Nalolo for raising a question that I am sure is of great concern to the vast majority of the people of this country, and particularly us the representatives of the people of Zambia.

 With regard to the quarrels that arise from succession issues, I would like to advise that the problem of deciding who is to succeed who in our traditional establishment should be left to the families of the traditional rulers. We should discourage, as much as possible, interference from outside so that these problems can be resolved. It is very saddening, indeed, because these problems are widespread in this country. Every province is experiencing it, and we hope that sooner or later, the traditional leaders will find a formula to resolve these quarrels amongst their families.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what disciplinary action the Government intends to take against the Ministry of Education officials who failed to employ 670 teachers whose permission to employ was granted, thereby denying the children of Zambia teachers?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bahati for asking a question regarding educational officials. I wish to inform the House that while I am not aware of the exact circumstances surrounding these 670 teachers, I wish to assure the hon. Member that the Ministry of Education, through the hon. Minister of Education, Professor Lungwangwa, will investigate this matter. If they are found wanting, they will be disciplined accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda SC (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, the chieftainship dispute affecting Chief Mphamba’s chieftainship in Lundazi has been raging for over ten years to an extent that this Government has had to appoint a Commission of Enquiry to look into it. Could His Honour the Vice-President tell us when the Government is going to resolve this wrangle?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think, I answered that question a earlier to the effect that we would like, as a Government, to allow the families of chiefs to resolve these issues. With specific reference to the Mphamba Chieftainship, I am glad that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chasefu, the distinguished and learned lawyer is the Member of Parliament for that area. As such, we shall count on him to advise the families on how to resolve these problems.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, could the Vice-President, at the risk of having been asked this question more than once before, clarify, definitively, what the position of the Government of the Republic of Zambia and its law enforcement agencies with respect to Mr Moses Katumbi, the Governor of Katanga is. I ask this in the light of the fact that the last information that this House received on the subject later turned out to be economical.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank Dr Scott for asking this question, again. To give a definitive and clear answer to the question of Mr Katumbi, I think he knows the consequences already and I would not like to fall into that trap.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, what is the Government’s stance on the cashew nut plantation in the Western Province. The House is aware that the Government, in the 1980s, initiated the project. Land was cleared and planted, but the project was suddenly abandoned and its future is not known. Could His Honour the Vice-President shed light on the future of the cashew nut plantation in the Western Province?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the cashew nut project in Mongu was started by the Government, but later privatised and the investor shut it down. As a Government, we would not be in a position to say what we intend to do. We hope that the private company will resuscitate it or sell it to another private company that will be able to continue with the project. Otherwise, the Government has very little to do with that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour, the Vice-President how many of the District Commissioners (DCs) posses the bare minimum qualification as best prescribed by the Government of a Bachelor’s Degree. Further, I would like to find out why the Government thought it wise and desirable and still thinks that the DCs should have that minimum qualification?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Siavonga for raising an incessant question regarding DCs and their qualifications. That this question has been asked before and if I recall, the answer given by the Government then was that there are contracts that have been signed by the DCs who are in office and that these DCs will work through their contracts. Thereafter, the bare minimum of a Bachelor’s Degree will be taken into account.

I wish, however, to point out that a degree per se is not necessarily a qualification. I think he as much as we do that some very good quality workers in all fields of life or some of the best inventors in the world were not degree holders or BSc holders in Civics, but had the acumen to do their work through experience. Similarly, even among DCs, there are those who have worked for the Government for a long time and have distinguished themselves. In the opinion of the appointing authority, they have excelled to be adequate for the position of DC.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms J. Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, could the Vice-President confirm the criteria used to support Masaiti Constituency alone when the entire Copperbelt Province, Luanshya Constituency, was hit by floods? The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President even visited the constituency.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, only last week, I was reported in the paper as having rebuked an outstanding mayor who was my host at the time. I wish to say that I was misunderstood because it is not possible to disagree with him in respect of the lady he was referring to. I do not want to fall in the same problem again. However, I wish to thank the hon. Member seated across there and give her the same compliments that the mayor gave to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.


Mr Speaker, with regard to the question on the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), fortunately, as you announced in this House, tomorrow, Saturday, we are going to discuss these matters in depth. With your permission, good lady across, I would like us to leave that question to then so that we can satisfy you with figures and all the other information.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Government will establish its national airline?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chipangali for raising a question that has been raised many times before. This question has been answered on several occasions. We have had a national airline before and there are lessons to be learnt from what happened to the first national airline. The process of studying this is still going on. At the moment, the Government believes more in the policy of private and public partnership than having a State airline. For the time being, while we are still studying this, the Government has no intentions of establishing a national airline.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Limata (Luampa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Vice-President if he has already visited the palaces in the Western Province, district by district.


Mr Speaker: Your Honour, have you visited the palaces?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would have answered that question very briefly, but I think it is in my interest to say that I have not visited the palaces, district by district. However, my wish is to do so. I hope the resources and time will permit me to do so not only in the Western Province, but the whole country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): I thank you Mr Speaker …

Hon. Member: Nabampoka?

Mr Kambwili: Ah, iyo nshishibe.

Mr Kambwili: The Vice- President has just informed this House that all the District Commissioners (DCs) will have to wait for their contracts. There is a DC who was fired in Masaiti and later re-appointed. This DC has a qualification of Form 3. What is the rationale behind this appointment?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would have been surprised if the hon. Member for Roan did not have a question.


The Vice-President: We always expect him to enliven this House by his contributions, which I enjoy very much. The DC he referred to was not fired. He was merely transferred. With regard to his qualifications, I, personally, do not know what they are, but I doubt if the information of the hon. Member of Parliament is correct.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, on 22nd April, 1966, an Act of Parliament was passed to establish the Zambia Red Cross Society as a Quasi-Government institution. I would like to find out from the Government when they will consider this society for grants because it is a partner in disaster and humanitarian assistance.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would refer the hon. Member for Chimbamilonga to the Act. I am not in a position to answer his question without reference to the Act, and I would like him to refer to the Act and see whether grants can be provided to that organisation.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for finally catching my eye. With regard to my question on the Mongu-Kalabo Road last week, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply stated that it was the shortest route to Angola. Given the inherent difficulties, as explained last time when we dealt with this matter, can the Vice-President inform us whether there are plans to open a more feasible road which will give Zambia access to three countries and has no structural engineering difficulties and neither does it have environmental problems associated with having to find a firm base 90 metres below the surface?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, with your permission, I would like to make reference to the question that the hon. Member had put to this House on the issue of the Mongu-Kalabo Road. I then wrote to him a little parliamentary note and told him that I did not understand his question, but that I found it very interesting and asked if he could explain to me what he meant. With your permission, I will be able to lay this on the Table. I would like to read his reply to my letter.

The hon. Member of Parliament fascinates me a lot because I think he reads a lot and follows the developments in the country and, therefore, I like to learn from him. In his reply to me he said and I quote:

“Your Honour the Vice President, Sir,

The Colonial Road is picked from Kalobolelwa in Senanga. Kalobolelwa is across Kalongola after Sioma. This is an all-weather road that goes all the way to Kalabo.

Sir, this road is highly economic to the people of Western Province as it opens up trade with Namibia, Botswana and Angola. It is also highly advantageous to the Government in terms of commerce with all the three neighbours.

Sir, this road is never affected by the floods of the Barotse Plains. Further, the cost of constructing this road would be less than one-sixteenth of the cost to be incurred by the country to construct the road through flood plains.

As stated, Sir, in military terms, this could be categorised as MSR for purposes of planning and strategy. For purposes of planning, on a short term and medium-term basis, where scarcity of resources prevails, the colonial road is of much greater benefit to the nation and its people.

In any case, Sir, although many of our friends’ emotions, my traditional cousins,  with regard to this road, are very high, the country’s civil engineers are not altogether agreed on the feasibility and cost effectiveness of this project, as access to the colonial road will be from Livingstone and also from Mongu to Senanga, which is tactically correct.

Sir, we should be mindful, all the time, of the fact that Zimbabwe and Angola may cause some problems in the future.”

Mr Speaker, I saw that he had raised very interesting questions and I immediately contacted the Ministry of Works and Supply and asked the Permanent Secretary to tell me what the problems were. In his reply, which I shall also lay on the Table of this House, the Permanent Secretary collaborated with the hon. Member of Parliament, and I will not bore you and take up all the time by reading it. I asked my office to also give me their opinion and my Permanent Secretary happened to be very well vested in this subject. He also made some comments which tallied with what the hon. Member said.

Mr Speaker, all I can say is that he asked a question which the Government needs to respond to, learn from what he is saying and see whether we can take a different route from the one that we wish to take.

Mr Speaker, I am not sure about which route is the correct one at the moment, but I thank the hon. Member for asking this question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, as servants of the people, hon. Members of Parliament are on duty twenty-four hours. Some of the duties include performing risky tasks. Why are hon. Members of Parliament not insured in case of death or disability.


Mr Speaker: Order! We do not debate ourselves in this House. That question can be raised elsewhere through a relevant committee of the House. Therefore, I encourage the hon. Member to do so.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, with reference to the last question on the Mongu-Kalabo Road, I would like to state, first of all, that it is the people who represent the people there, who should articulate issues of the Mongu-Kalabo Road. Having said that, would His Honour the Vice-President assure this House that in determining the final solution to that road, the following factors will be taken into account:

Firstly, the people of Kalabo are also looking for the shortest possible route to connect them to Mongu so that they do not have to pay as much as a person travelling from Mongu to Lusaka. Would he assure this House that he will look at all other possible routes in determining the final solution to the Mongu-Kalabo Road?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member, who is also an engineer, for that question. It is quite interesting to listen to this debate as it ranges between the hon. Member for Namwala and all of us regarding this road. It is, obviously, an issue that needs very careful attention. I want to give an assurance that all necessary attention will be paid to ensure that the people of Kalabo have the shortest route. It should be the shortest in terms of mileage and time.

I thank you, Sir.




545. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether there were any plans to empower subsistence farmers in the Northern Province with loans to enable them buy more cattle.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to introduce a cattle loan scheme for the people of Northern Province and other parts of the country. However, the financial and private sectors are encouraged to provide short or medium-term loans for agriculture production to all categories of farmers, including cattle throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! Is that a procedural point of order?

Mr Mukanga: Yes, it is, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a procedural point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to be unparliamentary dressed and participate in the operations of this House. I need your serious ruling, Sir.


Mr Simbao looking at his collarless jacket.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair has to rule.


Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair still has to rule. I remember that a similar point of order was raised last week. A lot of time was spent ascertaining whether the hon. Minister of Works and Supply was properly dressed for the operations of the House, and it was established that he was properly dressed. That procedural point of order was therefore, a diversionary and, sadly, time wasting. I, already, can see that the ruling is still the same. I can see him unveil and bare what he is wearing inside.


Mr Speaker: The difference might be that his coat has no collar.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That can be determined by Senior hon. Members of this House who reinforce our code and determine whether a collarless jacket is a kind of jacket that can be worn in the House. 

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Mfuwe can go ahead.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, since in some parts of the country, there are a lot of cattle diseases, what is the Government doing to encourage cattle rearing in the other parts of the country where there are no cattle diseases.

Mr Speaker: Before the hon. Minister answers, let me edit what I said. I meant a lapelless jacket.

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kapita): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is, at all times, as I said three days ago, encouraging farmers throughout the country, where there are no cattle diseases, to diversify their farming methods within the crop and livestock sectors. Finances from the private sector should also make finances available on both short and medium-term basis to enable farmers buy cattle.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, some time back, the Government had introduced a company called the Cattle Financing Company and many Zambians benefited a lot from it. Does it augur well with the Government to ignore the pleas of the people to re-introduce a scheme similar to the Cattle Financing Company, other than what they are now providing through assistance of cattle by giving one cow without a bull?


Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central is pertinent to my ministry. However, I would like to say that, yes, we had the Cattle Financing Company, but it was one of those companies that were made bankrupt by the small-scale farmers who were the beneficiaries.

This company was operating at the time we had the Agriculture Financing Company. It gave out a lot of loans to small-scale farmers as well as commercial farmers. I say this because one commercial farmer from the Mkushi Farming Block encouraged me to do exactly what the hon. Member for Monze Central is asking me to do. Nevertheless, commercial farmers who borrowed money from this company paid back the loans, but unfortunately, the small-scale farmers did not.

Sir, certainly, I agree that there must be another scheme, but it should not be a scheme where the Government will be lending money because that money will not be paid back. The scheme will be reviewed, but it cannot be through the Government.

I thank you, Sir.


546. Mr Bonshe (Mufumbwe) asked the hon. Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would construct houses and offices for police officers in Mufumbwe District.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Ms Njapau): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the need for the mentioned infrastructure in Mufumbwe District. It is against this background that a foundation stone was laid in 2004 for the same purpose. However, the construction of police houses and offices could not start because of Budget constraints.

Mr Speaker, this august House is being informed that the project has now been included in the Fifth National Development Plan for 2006-2010, under the Public Safety and Order Sector - Infrastructure Development. Therefore, as soon as funds are made available, construction will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, there are other police stations which were established after Mufumbwe, but have had offices and houses constructed, and yet officers in Mufumbwe are still living in tin houses. Could I find out the reason for this?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, we would like to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe that we will do everything possible to include them on the priority list as we continue to construct police stations.

I thank you, Sir.


548. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning whether there were fixed dates on which officers in the Public Service were paid their monthly salaries, and if so, on what dates the following officers were paid:

(a) civil servants;

(b) teachers; and

(c) police officers.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, I wish to report that all salaries for the Public Service workers are paid through the Payroll Management and Establishment Control System (PMEC) on a monthly basis.

A specific timetable that allows all Ministries, Provinces and Spending Agencies (MPSAs) to access the processing facility at PMEC for their input is followed. However, all the processing of payrolls is expected to be completed by the 20th day of each month.

Mr Speaker, currently the payrolls are being processed as follows:

(a) Teachers and Zambia Police Payrolls

The teachers and Zambia Police salaries are processed from the 2nd to 7th of every month. By the 15th of the month, payroll schedules and the accompanying cash books are printed, and on the basis of the cash produced from the PMEC system, requests for funding from the Budget Office are made.

As soon as funding is received, transfers of the funds to various control accounts for the ministries, provinces and other spending agencies is required to be completed by the 20th day of the month. On the other hand, the ministries, provinces and other spending agencies are expected to complete the transfer to various commercial banks, not later than the 25th day of the month, to enable the banks credit the officers’ bank accounts and pay out salaries by the last day of the month.

(b) Civil Servants and other Public Service Workers

The salaries for civil servants and other Public Service workers, other than teachers and Zambia Police on the other hand, are processed between the 8th and 15th of every month. On the basis of the verified cash books and the salary schedules from the PMEC system, the Office of the Accountant-General requests for funding from the Budget Office. On receipt of funds from the Budget Office, transfers are effected to the various line ministries, departments and provinces control accounts, usually, by the 22nd day of every month, to facilitate the distribution of salaries’ cheques to the various commercial banks by the 25th day of month. The commercial banks are expected to credit all officers’ bank accounts by, at least, the 28th day of the month to facilitate the actual payment of salaries by the last day of the month.

Mr Speaker, as alluded to earlier, the processing of salaries through the PMEC System follows a clearly defined time table circulated to all MPSAs, which is strictly complied with. However, some delays have been experienced sometimes due to technical problems with the PMEC System, inadequate resources in the Treasury and sometimes, individual bank processing problems.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Is the hon. Minister aware that teachers, civil servants and police officers normally get their salaries after the 10th of the following month? I would also like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware of the Employment Act Cap. 268, of the Laws of Zambia, Section 48 (2) which reads:

“The wages of an employee shall be paid at regular intervals not being later than the fifth day following the date upon which they fall due under subsection (1).”

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that teachers, civil servants and police officers are paid on time, according to the law.

Hon Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that, at times, teachers and police officers are paid late. The House may recall that this issue was addressed where even His Excellency the President came in and instructed that teachers and police officers were paid on time.

Sir, we discovered that sometimes, a cheque could be cut in Lusaka and transported all the way to the Eastern or Northern Province instead of using the bank to transfer such monies.

Therefore, as a ministry, we instruct the spending agencies to use the computerised banking system to transfer the monies. Yes, that problem was there, but at the moment, this problem has been looked into and solved.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that for almost ten years now, all civil servants have been getting their salaries on the 10th to 15th of the following month? Is he also aware that it is not only because of some mistakes, but some delays that have been there for some time and, in fact, a way of doing things by the Government?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, in the past, salaries used to be processed manually. We have now put in place a computerised payment system, which avoids ghost workers. If you feed data to that system, which is not in the mainstream or is not what someone is supposed to get, the system will deny you permission to proceed. Therefore, we have in place a computerised system which prevents delays and also addresses the problems which the hon. Members of Parliament are talking about. Therefore, we should let the system work.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


549. Mr Matongo (Pemba) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs what Zambia’s latest position on NEPAD was.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President‘s Office (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Zambia New Partnership for African Development (NEPAD) Action Plan was completed last year. Sir, its launch awaits consideration and approval by the Government.

Sir, as hon. Members of the House may be aware, NEPAD is a pledge by African leaders based on a common vision, firm and shared conviction that they have a pressing duty to eradicate poverty and to put their countries on the path of sustainable growth and development and, at the same time, participate actively in the world economy and body politics. The programmes and projects identified under NEPAD pertain to infrastructure, energy, human resource and tourism development and poverty eradication.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, we have heard about the launch. Do we have structures of NEPAD settled and who is the Chief Executive?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member for Pemba that NEPAD has established an office here in Zambia to be run under the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.

As you know, NEPAD started from Zambia and then, moved on to South Africa. Therefore, we are very committed to ensuring that it is a success.

I thank you, Sir.


550. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) what progress the Government had made in the construction of the Mulakupikwa Teachers’ Training College in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) how much money had so far been spent on the college and when the project would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Ms Changwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the abandoned structures at Mulakupikwa were handed over to the Ministry of Education in 2005. The ministry has plans to convert the infrastructure into a teachers’ training college.

Sir, so far, the Government has completed the construction of fifteen medium-cost staff houses at the site. At the time of the handover, these houses were at the window level.

Mr Speaker, from the time the Ministry of Education took over the project, the Government has spent a total of K1.2 billion on the completion of fifteen medium-cost houses.

Sir, due to huge construction works that need to be carried out for the college to be completed, there is a need for a massive investment of funds. As such, it is difficult to state when the college would be completed since the project targets will be achieved in phases, depending on the availability of funds in the subsequent work plans and budgets after 2007.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister assure this House, and the nation at large, that in future, Mulakupikwa Teachers’ Training College will not be turned into a high school and transferred to another ministry as has been the case before.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, the assurance is in the answer. The answer is that Mulakupikwa is being converted into a teachers’ training college. That is the assurance that the ministry is making in the House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


551. Mr Mbewe (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) how many of the following types of houses were built by the National Housing Authority from 2004 to 2006:

(i) low cost;
(ii) medium cost; and
(iii) high cost; and

(b) where the houses at (a) above were built.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the National Housing Authority built 266 low-cost houses from 2004 to 2006.

Sir, during the same period, the National Housing Authority built 296 medium-cost houses and 90 high-cost houses.

Mr Speaker, the areas where these houses were built are as follows:

 Area                      Low Cost          Medium cost           High cost    Total

 Bennie Mwiinga     110                    242                          36              388

 Ibex Hill                  0                        0                              54              54

 Nyumba Yanga     92                      53                              0            145

 Twapia, Ndola      64                       0                                0              64
 Total                   266                   295                             90             651

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why these housing units are concentrated in cities other than rural towns?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the programme for the National Housing Authority (NHA) is supposed to be countrywide, but obviously, from the information given, it is clear that the NHA, at the time, wanted to start constructing houses in the urban areas due to the high demand for accommodation.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, the Hon. Minister has, in the past, on the Floor of this House, stated that the National Housing Authority, partnering with the private sector, would build more and more houses. I cannot remember the exact number of houses, but it was a large figure and I asked her to confirm and assure this House that the programme would begin. Has the construction of these houses started? I see that 650 over a period of three years is dismal figure.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Dr Machungwa: Is she in a position to say whether that much-widely publicised programme she announced in this House with a lot of pomp has now started?

Mr Masebo: Mr Speaker, firstly, it is important that Members of Parliament should appreciate that the National Housing Authority, as a national building company, is working very hard given a budgetary constraint that it is facing.

This administration has put in place a programme to try and build houses, not just in the urban areas, but also the whole country. To this effect, all councils were directed, last year, to identify, at least, a minimum of 100 pieces of land, which land was to be used to construct, at least, a minimum of 100 houses so as to cater for the shortage of accommodation that this country is facing.

In addition, this administration has come up with what we call Municipal Housing Bonds because the biggest problems that we face in constructing housing are resource related. This is why the Government has come up with the Municipal Housing Bonds Programme.

Mr Speaker, last year, the Government established a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) to be used to put up houses since it was discovered that the local authorities were not in a good financial position to attract the private sector to the construction of houses.

Currently, we have established a Special Purpose Vehicle and a board of trustees has been constituted. Further, the Managing Director of the SPV and other key staff were recruited this year to run this programme and they have since started work. We have indicated that we would start with a pilot project, covering a number of towns and cities. The Special Purpose Vehicle Trust Company has visited the local authorities and land has been identified. They are in the process of issuing the first municipal housing bonds.

It is hoped that through the municipal housing bonds, more houses will be constructed because we know that the demand for housing is high and that construction of houses is a viable business. Therefore, we expect a number of companies from the private sector to come on board in terms of raising resources for the construction of the houses.

At the same time, we have another programme which is being run by the National Housing Authority in conjunction with the local authorities for constructing, at least, 100 houses. Again, this programme is being financed by the Government. There is a budgetary provision in this year’s Budget. Although the funds are not enough, efforts are being made to start construction by way of opening up serviced land. We hope that the private sector will come on board once land is serviced to partner with the local authorities and the National Housing Authority to construct houses.

I thank you, Sir.


552. Ms Kapata (Mandevu) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many markets in Lusaka were ran by co-operative societies registered under the ministry;

(b) how the levies collected from the markets were utilised since most of the markets were dilapidated;

(c) whether the Lusaka City Council benefited from the market levies since most of them were constructed on council land; and

(d) what percentage of the market levies had been ploughed back into the community.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, there are thirty-three markets in Lusaka run by co-operative societies registered under the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives.

The levies collected from markets are used for infrastructure development and securing services such as electricity, security, refuse collection, toilet cleaning, funerals, civic education, loans and advances among others.

Co-operative Societies renting markets from the Lusaka City Council pay lease rates to the Council as provided in the lease agreement. The City Council, in turn, provide the following services: garbage collection, electricity, security, and toilet cleaning. However, Co-operative Societies that have acquired title deeds for their markets only pay ground rates to the Council.

The percentage of market levies that are ploughed back into the community are negligible as most of it goes to meet costs related to long-standing contracts with service providers such as ZESCO, security firms, refuse collectors, etc. However, plans are under way to plough back part of the levies into the community in line with the 7th Co-operative Principle of Concern for the community.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how often markets are inspected, as most of them operate without water and sanitation facilities to an extent that some of them have toilets made out of mealie meal bags, posing a danger of an outbreak of diseases such as cholera.

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, the marketing and co-operative departments regularly inspect markets that are run by co-operators. The state of the toilets might not be desirable, but definitely, with the ‘Keep Zambia Clean’ campaign, the co-operators will have to make more effort to ensure that their markets are clean and the ministry will see to it that we help in keeping Zambia clean.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that there are thirty-three markets that are owned by co-operatives that are registered by the Registrar of Co-operatives. I would like to find out what effect the recently enacted Markets and Bus Stations Boards Act will have on the ownership of markets because, from that Act, it is very clear that markets will only be owned by councils and run by boards.

What will happen to the ownership and how will the owners of the markets be compensated in view of the fact that it has been stated on the Floor of the House that thirty -three markets are owned by co-operators, meaning they built the markets, and, therefore, have legal ownership.

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, we have thirty-three markets that are being run by co-operators. I want to make clear the fact that the land on which the structures are belongs to the councils and the markets belong to councils. What we run is what we have constructed at the site. On Friday next week which, I believe, is the 27th July, 2007, at 1400 hours, we shall have a meeting between my ministry for the co-operators and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing in the boardroom of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to harmonise the situation in view of the new Act that has been put in place.

I thank you, Sir.


553. Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) what measures the ministry had taken to minimise the following problems:

(i) shortage of drugs in rural and peri-urban areas;

(ii) shortage of linen in general and, Kitwe in particular; and

(iii) shortage of medical staff; and

(b) why the Government was failing to meet the incentives Zambian doctors and nurses demanded in preference to foreign medical personnel who were well remunerated and accommodated.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the ministry allocates health centre kits to each of the seventy-two district complimented by other essential drugs as back up to the kits. So far, 11,000 health centre kits have been received and are being distributed to all health centres and another 16,000 health centre kits are awaited from outside the country. Additionally, ARVs and Coartem have started arriving and so far, there are enough stocks to last up to the end of the year. Further, each district is given a monthly grant of which 4 per cent is used to procure drugs and other medical and surgical supplies locally.

The smallest district gets K51 million per month as operational grant while the biggest district gets K800 million per month. The ministry also centrally purchases drugs which are distributed to all health institutions.

In addition, the ministry has entered into framework contracts with local and foreign suppliers for purposes of ensuring a steady supply of drugs on a continuous basis. Framework contracts amounting to K14.2 billion were awarded to local suppliers to supply drugs when the need arises.

Mr Speaker, on the shortage of linen in general and Kitwe in particular, just as is the case with drugs, each district purchases linen from their allocated grants. In the case of Kitwe Central Hospital, it has had its service delivery grant increased to enable it meet its day to day operations, including purchasing of linen. For example, Kitwe Central Hospital bought 122 pairs of linen in March, 2007 and 122 pairs in June, 2007.

Mr Speaker, on the shortage of medical staff, at present, the Ministry of Health recognises that it is operating at about 50 per cent capacity and, therefore, the following measures have been put in place:

(a) this year alone, the ministry is recruiting new employees for the first phase of implementing the new structure;

(b) the ministry is in the process of opening new nursing schools, including Kaleni, Nchanga and Roan;

(c) the Ministry has increased the intakes for the training institutions; and

(d) recruitment of retired medical personnel on contract.

Mr Speaker, it is true that the Government is failing to meet the incentives Zambian doctors and nurses demand in preference to foreign medical personnel. All medical personnel in the country are employed on local conditions, including foreign medical personnel. In fact, foreign doctors who come on local conditions get less than Zambian doctors because they are not entitled to some of the conditions in the Retention Scheme which Zambian doctors get such as the retention allowance of 20 per cent of the salary and other conditions such as car loans. However, there are some foreign medical personnel who come into the country on Government to Government agreements such as the Nigerian and Chinese medical personnel. These are normally paid by the respective governments. Nevertheless, the ministry is currently scaling up the Zambia Health Workers Retention Scheme to not only retain the health personnel, but also improve their working conditions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, from the answers given by the hon. Minister, I would appreciate it if the ministry would take measures to close all the chemists at the hospitals because most of the drugs in hospitals, if what we hear is true, are being diverted to the chemists. What is your position?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, the request by the hon. Member that we close chemist contracts at our health institutions, in our view, is retrogressive. It is retrogressive in the sense that there are instances when certain drugs are not readily available in our hospital pharmacies, these chemists play an important role to assist clients not to go so far away into town. For clients to go into town, they need transport and sometimes the drug is required in the shortest possible time.

Mr Speaker, the chemists in our hospital facilities are complimentary. The suspicion might be that drugs are diverted from our pharmacies to these chemists. All I can say is that measures are put in place to account for hospital drugs and, therefore, meant for patients.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Health when the growing, but very dangerous trend where drugs are now being sold in ordinary shops like rock buns is going to be checked, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: … when they are supposed to be handled in a specialised manner by specialised people. When shall we check this trend?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the issue of sale of drugs in places where they are not prescribed by the existing law, certainly, is a concern to our ministry. There are two types of drugs that can be sold to clients. The first type consists of drugs that are called non-prescription drugs, such as paracetamol, panadol and drugs for diarrhoea and so on. There is a second category, which is that of drugs that have to be prescribed by a licensed medical practitioner. They have to be dispensed in prescribed areas and there has to be a professional pharmacist to dispense these drugs. Therefore, I hope the hon. Member is not confusing the two.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Chituwo: Certainly, the non-prescribable drugs, as per law passed by this House, can be sold anywhere, but prescribable drugs have to be, as I have stated, in prescribed premises. The Pharmaceutical Regulatory Authority carries out inspections on a regular basis to ensure that the public are not exposed to dangerous medicines because they have not been prescribed by professionals or pharmacists. This is an on-going exercise and when outlets do not comply with the regulations, the operators are certainly apprehended and the outlets are closed. These are the measures that this Government continues to put in place. We shall benefit from the hon. Members of Parliament if we are, from time to time alerted, as to the mushrooming of unauthorised outlets that sell drugs that they are not suppose to.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mumbi (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Health to be more specific on the said grant which is going to help with the purchasing of linen in hospitals. I say so, so that when the specific time or duration when this linen is going to be replaced, in case, we find some clinics in our constituencies which have not been given new linen we can report to him. I say so because I am looking at the situation at Chelstone Clinic where we have curtains which are threadbare and when women are delivering, you can see through them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali for that question. I thought, the answer given by my hon. Deputy Minister, was very clear.

Mr Speaker, in the process of decentralisation, the plans and priorities originate at each facility; district level and health facility at the bottom. They plan for the grants that they are given and what the priorities should be. I would like to request the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali to find out from the District Health Director why a situation of that nature still exists in spite of funds being made available every month. So, really, I think that is the request I am making generally. Only occasionally do we purchase linen and any other medical surgical supplies in bulk.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, the fact that this problem has been resurfacing year in and year out confirms the fact that there is something that is lacking in the ministry in terms of managerial approach. Can the hon. Minister consider establishing a taskforce in his ministry to monitor the performance of his provincial and district managers so that service delivery is improved?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the issue of monitoring the performance of our institution is enshrined in the service contracts we have. In the monitoring of these facilities at provincial and district offices, we demand that each quarter, we are given information with regard to the utilisation of the funds that are sent to their various districts. It is clear that the reports that we receive might not be as complete as they should be. However, each year, we have the Joint Annual Review which looks at the performance of all our health facilities in terms of linen, clinical care and support services such as laboratories.

Within each provincial office, there is, regularly, a provision for the Provincial Medical Director to assess the facilities that they supervise and there are guidelines on what they are supposed to look for when they go to supervise and assess these facilities. From what has been stated, this does not seem to be working to the satisfaction of most hon. Members here. The first stage, in our view, is to strengthen this aspect of monitoring before we can constitute task force, which is costly, but certainly, that will be considered when we have reviewed that our system has not been performing to the satisfaction of the clients for whom we care.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that training facilities would be increased. I would like to know from the hon. Minister if there are any plans to upgrade Lewanika Nursing School to a registered nursing school and if there any plans to open another nursing school in the Western Province since there are facilities that can cater for this? We have good hospitals such Yuka Hospital which are not well utilised.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, with regard to the upgrading of Lewanika General Hospital, in our view, we have to do first things first. I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member of Parliament passes through Lewanika General Hospital as he comes to Lusaka. If he does, he would really see that right now there is a new students’ hostel that has been constructed. The other areas that need to be upgraded for us to upgrade a nursing school from an enrolled to a registered nursing school are facilities such as library services that are on our programme of upgrading nursing schools. When that is done, we will have no difficulties, whatsoever, in considering upgrading Lewanika General Hospital School of Nursing. At the moment, with the facilities we have put in place, the aim is to increase the number of nurses and the standard of training at that nursing school.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, in his reply, the hon. Minister mentioned that new nursing schools were being opened. I would like to find out when the Government will employ the many trained nurses who are on the streets.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, perhaps, as a way of emphasis, in our substantive reply, we indicated, exactly, when we would employ the nurses. I hope the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu was listening.

Ms Kapata consulted an hon. Member.

Dr Chituwo: She is not even listening now.

The answer is that the recruitment process has already started. We have had 5,264 places authoised by the Treasury. We made an undertaking in this House that towards the end of this year, in fact, during this process, at least 1,900 health workers will be recruited into the Ministry of Health. This House voted the money and it is available for this recruitment exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, with regard to the K51 million which is the average amount of money that small districts earn, monthly, to help with regard to the purchase of drugs, linen and other requirements, I wish to know whether there is any consideration to apportion some of that money to Macha Hospital. Macha Hospital, going by the geography of Namwala, is between twenty and forty kilometres away from Chief Muchila’s area, and yet Namwala is about 100 to 150 kilometres away and, therefore, too distant for the majority of the people. Is it possible to apportion some of that money to Macha so that it can accommodate some of my constituents?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in asking his question, I think, my younger brother, honestly, wishes to have some clarification. I want to state, through this House, that as far as the Ministry of Health is concerned, there is no discrimination in the grants that we send to our health facilities, whether mission or Government run.

Through the Memorandum of Understanding between the Churches Health Association of Zambia and Ministry of Health, there are certain obligations that either party has to adhere to. One of these obligations is the issue of grants as per size and population which that institution serves.

Sir, I want to confirm that Macha does not need to be given a portion. Macha Mission Hospital, in its own right, receives a grant in order to provide services to the Zambian people. In addition, we also send the hospital drugs and all the staff are paid by the Government. Therefore, there is, really, a very small portion that our missionary friends contribute in the management of these health facilities.

I thank you, Sir.


554. Mr Milupi (Luena) asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives when the programme for fish restocking in the Western Province, especially in the Barotse plains would commence.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, the Fish Restocking Programme in the Western and other provinces will only be carried out after an assessment of levels of exploitation of the fisheries has been carried out. An assessment will be undertaken once funds are made available. However, programmes to stop or stem fishing methods that are detrimental to the fisheries are being implemented. Fisher folks are being sensitised on the implications of bad fishing methods and they need to adopt good management and fishing practices.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that fishing and fisheries were a major industry in the Western Province, second to the cattle industry and it was a big source of livelihood for the people there? Is he aware that because of the Government’s failure to control fishing methods, indigenous fish stocks have been almost depleted? Is he also aware that the only way to replenish the fish stocks is through massive fish farming for indigenous stocks, which can then be put back in the lakes and rivers.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, at the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, we are aware of the importance of fishing or the fish industry in the Western Province. I think it competes very well with the cattle industry and we know the effect of fish depletion in their areas. Definitely, we will do something about it, but as the hon. Deputy Minister said, firstly, we have to ascertain the level of depletion.

Secondly and fortunately for us, from this year’s Budget, we have started giving the Fisheries Department improved funding to enable them carry out their duties of sensitising the fisher folk on the proper methods of fishing. This is so that they can stop using mosquito nets because they catch the fingerlings too. We have definitely begun, through the Livestock Development Trust, the breeding of fish for supply and restocking to the various water bodies in the country. The Western Province is one of them. Therefore, we are alive to this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for the explanation given. However, the concern has to do with the indigenous species, particularly those that are near extinction. What measures is the Government taking to stop these species from completely vanishing from our lakes and rivers? What measures is he taking to ensure that these species are actually protected or, as quickly as possible, cultured for later re-introduction into the various lakes and rivers?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, may I thank the hon. Member for Chifunabuli for that follow up question, especially that he comes from a fishing area.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, we are aware of the need to protect the indigenous species of fish and it is for this reason that we have become very active in the breeding of fish. The Fisheries Department, working together with the Livestock Development Trust, are looking at how we can best protect and expand the supply of indigenous species because they are critical to the fishing industry in all these areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sinyinda (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I am worried about the answer given by the hon. Minister because for the Fisheries Department to carry out its duties effectively, it must be well equipped and at the same time, personnel must be increased. Senanga, for example, has only one officer to implement the good fishing methods in the district. Does the Government have any plans to employ more personnel and, at the same time, equip these officers so that they can effectively and efficiently carry out their duties?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Senanga for raising that very important question. Fortunately, since the country’s attainment of the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative Completion Point, we have now been allowed to employ once again. In 2005, we took on 504 new staff. Thereafter, we were allowed to employ another 1,672 new staff by Cabinet Office. Unfortunately, we cannot raise enough money to employ more. We have been advised by our colleagues at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning not to employ the entire 1,672 at once. We are doing it in phases. We have permission to employ and we shall be staffing most of the areas with fisheries officers and that is going to improve, of course, the management of the fish ban.

In terms of equipment, we have begun buying new boats this year. My colleague, the former hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives had bought about twenty boats just before I was appointed to this ministry. I think we are equipping the department to carry out its duties properly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives state how far he has gone with the plans of restocking Lake Bangweulu, especially that he made an assurance in the last sitting that the Government was going to carryout the restocking exercise?

Mr Kapita: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The restocking exercise in the Luapula Province is definitely on …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, may I once again thank the hon. Member for Chilubi for raising that question on how far we have gone in the restocking exercise. I would like to confirm here that we have not begun the restocking exercise, but will begin very soon. I have invited the hon. Member for Bangweulu, Mr Kasongo, and the hon. Member for Bahati, Mr Chimbaka, to a meeting with hon. Members from the Luapula Province to discuss this programme because there is a very important project for the province. I did alert Hon. Kasongo to call his colleagues from that province so that we map out …

Mr Kasongo: I have done that.

Mr Kapita: He is telling me that he has done that. We are making progress.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, how effective is the fishing ban, taking into consideration that some of the rivers, for example, the Luapula River, that we share with our neighbouring countries have the fish ban effected in Zambia while our colleagues in the Democratic Republic of Congo side are fishing?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, thank you again for that important question. How effective is the fish ban? There are a number of things to look at. Firstly, we did not, in the past, have much of transport to really enforce it by patrolling the various water frontages. However, with the new allocation now of K25.7 billion in this year’s Budget, we are procuring some transport so as to not only improve the enforcement of the fishing ban, but also educate the fishing folk of the poor methods of fishing.

In terms of shared waters, there is a problem because certain countries, perhaps, are not doing the same thing that we are doing. However, I am able to say that in the area that we might be referring to, especially Lake Mweru, I am told they also have some kind of fishing ban, but only it is at a different time. We cannot enforce it that side because that is a different country, but we will do our best on our side.

At the same time, through the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) and Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), we have begun to discourage our colleagues in these countries so as to improve the management of fishing bans in order for us to do it at the same time. Therefore, we are working towards that harmonisation.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


555. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) how many new mines had been opened countrywide since 1st January, 2007;

(b) how many casual workers were employed by the mining industry from 31st January, 2006 to date; and

(c) what had happened to the people who were living in areas where new mines had opened.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. Mwale): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House as follows:

(a) one large-scale mine, Munali Nickel Mine owned by Albidon, has been opened since 1st January, 2007. Within the next one year, there is a possibility of opening two large-scale mines on the Copperbelt;

(b) the Government is in the process of amending the Employment Act Cap. 268 of the Laws of Zambia and is redefining the section related to casualisation so that any employee who continues to be engaged for more than three months will automatically become entitled to benefits that should normally accrue to a permanent employee;

However, the House may wish to know that Konkola Copper Mines Plc, Mopani Copper Mines Plc. and Kansanshi Mines have completely stopped employing casual workers. Others are employing for occasional tasks such as digging a trench.

In this context, the number of casual workers employed by the mining industry from 31st January, 2006 to 30th June, 2007 is 495, broken down as follows:

(i) Chilanga Cement Plc.  125

(ii) Sino Metals   15

(iii) NFC Africa Mining Plc. 165

(iv) Chambishi Metals Plc. 53

(v) Ndola Lime Company  109

(vi) Chibuluma Mines Plc.  14

(vii) Maamba Collieries Ltd 17

(c) The new mine namely; Munali Nickel Mine, has demonstrated good corporate social responsibility in their resettlement programme. Albidon Zambia Limited has compensated each household as follows:

(i) 15 hectares of virgin land. This is one and half times the original land owned;

(ii) 10 hectares of the 15 hectares was cleared by the company;

(iii) 8 x 50kg fertiliser and 2 x 10kg bags of maize seed;

(iv) new modern concrete block houses have been constructed as follows:

Three to four-bedroomed main houses for the head of each household and modern concrete houses for dependents. For, example, if there are five dependents, five houses have been built;

(v) a domestic water borehole;

(vi) a VIP toilet;

(vii) two heads of cattle; one heifer and one bull, not only a cow;

(viii) a kraal for cattle; and

(ix) A goat shed and chicken run.

Each resettled household has signed a Compensation Agreement with Albidon on the terms and conditions of the compensation.

In addition to individual household compensation, the company is to construct a primary school and a clinic. Furthermore, the company has established a community trust which is to be a vehicle for community development.

A school bus is provided to transport children to school. A 24-hour standby transport is available to take members of the community to the nearest health centre in case of an emergency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, the answer given to question (c) looks a bit impressive, but I wonder if that is Government policy or it is the goodwill of the company.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, the elaborate answer which has just been given is not just about the goodwill of the company, but the policy of Government  ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Dr Mwansa: … that when people are displaced, from certain communities due to mining activities, they must be resettled in a better and superior environment. What Albidon has done is the standard requirement for every mining company to follow to provide better and superior facilities such as housing, farming facilities, amenities such as schools and health facilities. Albidon has gone further than any other mining company by even acquiring a farm at their own expense where they have resettled individuals who have been affected. That is Government policy and that is what we will do from now on.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chilembo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what progress has been made in oil prospecting in Chama where Placid Oil already started the process. I thought it would be a very easy job for the ministry.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the question has nothing to do with the question on the Order Paper, but since Hon. Chilembo is my good friend and a former student …


Dr Mwansa: … whom I am very proud of that he is in the House – he is my direct product, I would like to say that we are very serious with oil exploration in Chama and as we are talking, a team is already in the area gathering samples which will be analysed in accordance with the technology that we used in Zambezi, Chavuma and Kabompo. Once the results are confirmed, we will inform the nation and proceed accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.


556. Mr Simama (Kalulushi) asked the Minister of Lands what measures the Ministry had taken to resettle the farmers who were removed from the site earmarked for a smelter plant at Chambishi.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Hamir): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform this august House that it is not the mandate of the Ministry of Lands to resettle farmers who were removed from the site earmarked for a smelter plant in Chambishi.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simama: Mr Speaker, although I did not hear the answer from the hon. Minister, I would just like to find out what packages have been prepared for the farmers to help them start a new life since most of them spent all their terminal benefits developing the land where they have been evacuated and just earlier, we heard from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development that it is Government policy to compensate all farmers who are evacuated from their land.

The Minister of Lands (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, as has already been stated, this responsibility of resettlement is being done through the Office of the Vice-President and it is also interesting to note that during the workshop which is taking place on Sunday, there will be presentations in this respect.

I thank you, Sir.


557. Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many women had so far benefited from the fertiliser Support Programme from 2001 to 2006, province by province; and

(b) what tourism ventures women were involved in.

Mr Kalenga: Mr Speaker, in response, I want to admit that the Fertiliser Support Programme, from the start, never collected information on fertiliser distribution in terms of female and male beneficiaries. However, the ministry has asked the provincial and district offices to commence compilation of data and information on Fertiliser Support Programme beneficiary by gender.

Part (b) of the question is for the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. I would ask the hon. beautiful Member of Parliament for Katombola to contact our colleagues who will be able to give her information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether after data has been compiled, they will bring it to this House for us to know?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, since it is a directive from this House, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has no choice, but to oblige.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has any plans to link the Fertiliser Support Programme to the Food Security Park Programme so that those who graduate from the Food Security Park Programme, particularly women, are taking onto the Fertiliser Support Programme. If so, when will this be implemented?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, I wish to state that the Fertiliser Support Programme is for vulnerable, but viable small-scale farmers (agriculture) while the Food Security Park Programme is for the vulnerable, but not viable people. These are the aged, disabled and so on.

Mr Speaker, we have not really looked at that possibility yet, and I am not sure whether some of the elderly people who have been supported by the Food Security Park will now become young enough to graduate to the vulnerable, but viable group. We can look at it.

I thank you, Sir.


558. Dr Njobvu (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many agricultural camps were in the country, province by province; and

(b) how many of these camps were not manned, province by province.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, there are 1,650 agricultural camps in the country broken down as follows:

 Province            No. of Camps
 Central                   163
 Copperbelt             156
 Eastern                  239
 Luapula                  177
 Lusaka                     73
 Northern                215
 North-Western      188
Southern                229
Western                 210

There are ninety-eight unmanned agricultural camps in the country broken down as follows:

Province      No. of Camps
Copperbelt             18
Eastern                  11
 Northern               18
 North-Western     20
 Luapula                25
 Western               06

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Njobvu: Mr Speaker, I would like to know why these camps are not manned and when they will be manned.

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, the ninety-eight camps are not manned for a number of reasons. Principally, it is the schedule of staffing.

Secondly, at some of them, we do not have sufficient accommodation. We have to put up accommodation to attract people because if we take people there, after a couple of weeks, due to lack of accommodation, they leave. First of all, we are looking into the question of providing decent accommodation for staff.

Mr Speaker, we have started with Eastern Province, Milanzi in particular. We are renovating all the houses at the camps in the Eastern Province. We are also renovation all the training centres in the province.

The other issue is the number of people. As I said earlier, we were permitted by Cabinet Office to employ a further 1,672 staff. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has asked us to employ in phases due to the shortage of funds. In the next two years, we would have finished the 1,672 new officers and the ninety-eight camps that are not manned will definitely be taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell us what measures he is taking to prevent the poaching of ministry staff, especially camp officers and block officers by NGOs and Aid Projects that offer them far better conditions of service, but later drop them when the project comes to an end, leaving us in the worst of all worlds.

Mr Kapita: I thank my friend, the hon. Member for Lusaka Central …

Hon. PF Members: Former friend!

Mr Kapita: No, my current friend. As for what we are doing to reduce poaching of staff, one has to look at the ministry from the bigger picture of the entire Government. Obviously, when conditions are improved, even those for the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives will improve. Also, these projects scheduled in future will be run from within the various ministries. So, people will not be attracted there. It is true that we are losing manpower to some projects, but those projects are not here forever, and we know that many of our staff have been damped at the end of the project period. We are re-organising the way we run the projects so that our staff are not poached or find themselves abandoned at the end of the project period.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Dr Njobvu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives why a job that can be done by the camp or agricultural supervisors is always given to projects instead of the staff. Therefore, you will find that those who are working on the project are getting more money than those who are working for the ministry, and yet it is the ministry doing the job?

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chadiza who happened to have been one of our people. I do not know whether I can say that Parliament has poached him because he was one of my officers in The Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. I do not know who has poached him because he is in Parliament. Obviously, somehow, he has been poached indirectly.

Mr Kapita: Mr Speaker, I said earlier that we are re-organising the way we run projects in our ministry. Definitely, the staff who go to the projects and get better pecks, compared to those who remain in the ministry, are causing a lot of frustrations and our staff are getting demoralised. Therefore, we are re-organising to ensure that the practice comes to an end.

559. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) whether there were any plans to replace the pontoon at Libonda Royal Palace on the Zambezi River; and

(b) whether there were any plans to construct a bridge on the Luanginga River, at Kalabo Boma, connecting Liuwa National Park.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, pontoons are an integral system on the core road network of Zambia as most of our roads cross rivers and streams. Therefore, their continuous operation is one of the issues that the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency, aims to achieve. The pontoon at Libonda Royal Palace was operated by the Roman Catholic Church.

 My ministry has decided to move the old pontoon from Luongo to Libonda since a new one has been commissioned at Libonda. Next year, we shall provide a Budget line for us to purchase a pontoon for this crossing.

With regard to whether there are any plans to construct a bridge on the Luanginga River at Kalabo Boma, connecting Liuwa National Park, the Ministry of Works and Supply intends to replace key economic and strategic pontoons with permanent crossings such as bridges.

 However, in order to ascertain the importance of the route where the pontoon operates, a feasibility study needs to be undertaken. In this regard, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) which falls under the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources has been appointed as a road authority by the Ministry of Works and Supply and they will determine the need and cost of constructing a bridge across Luanginga River into the Liuwa National Park.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the Government is on record in this House as having given us an impression that there has been an increased number of tourists going to the Liuwa National Park, using the same route which needs a bridge to be constructed on this very vital river. Could the hon. Minister tell us when this will be done instead of making reference to ZAWA?

Mr Tetamashimba: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the supplementary question coming from the hon. Member of Parliament from the Western Province.  The road from the main tarmac road to his constituency has been worked on by this Government, to his satisfaction.


Hon. Member: For the whole Province.

Mr Tetamashimba: Yes, even for the whole province. Mr Speaker, I want to say that it is important for us to put up a road into the Liuwa National Park, but you may wish to know that National Parks fall under the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and not the Ministry of Works and Supply. Therefore, for the Government to put a bridge across the Luanginga River, the number of tourists crossing from our side into the park has to necessitate putting up a bridge. However, both ZAWA and the district council have been appointed as road authorities, meaning that if the district where the member of Parliament comes from feels that this is a priority, and the district council, which is a road authority, and ZAWA, which is under the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources consider this a priority, obviously, the Government will take it on board. For now, as ministry of Works and Supply, we have not had any indication from the Members of Parliament or from the council that the bridge is a priority. All we get are questions on the Floor of the House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.




Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, in accordance with the National Assembly Standing Order No. 98 (2) (a), this House grants leave for the introduction of a Private Member’s Bill entitled: The Parliamentary and Ministerial Code of Conduct (Amendment) Bill, 2007.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Dr Njobvu (Milanzi): I second the Motion, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I believe the hon. Member for Milanzi is seconding. Could you turn off that microphone?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for permitting me to present  this Motion which aims at seeking leave of this honourable House to introduce a Private Member’s Bill that you have quoted.

Sir, the proposed amendment Bill aims at giving legal effect to an existing practice. As Members of the House are aware, the Parliamentary and Ministerial Code of Conduct at Section 10 of Part II obliges ministers, deputy ministers, your office and that of the deputy to make annual declarations of assets and liabilities. It is void though of any obligation on the part of ordinary members to make similar declarations. Nonetheless, Sir, by practice, all Members of Parliament are expected, and are encouraged by your office, to make these declarations. What we, therefore, propose is that Members of Parliament should be legally bound to make declarations rather than be encouraged.

Some might argue that Members of Parliament, unlike deputy ministers and ministers, do not have any control of Government resources. However, the intention of the law with regard to declarations for deputy ministers and ministers is not only limited to the fact that they have control of Government resources because by and large, even they do not have any direct control of expenditure. If they are obliged by law to make these declarations, there should be no arguments, whatsoever on why others who all belong to this august House should not be obliged, by law, to make declarations.

Sir, the second reason we are presenting this motion is because this country, as the people have heard, is bleeding. It is bleeding profusely as a result of corruption. The Zambian people expect their honourable House and representatives to be the leaders in the fight against corruption. The people out there expect this House to come up with laws that curb corruption. The people out there expect this honourable House to tighten whatever loopholes exist in the laws and in Government procedures and practices so that we may tighten our financial management. For us to be able to come up with such laws, it is incumbent upon us to remove the log in our eyes before we attempt to remove the specks in the eyes of those who are out there.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, a motion which I present with humility for the sake of the Zambian people. It is a non-controversial motion and the amendment, itself, is not likely to attract any controversy. I do this believing sincerely that each one of the 158 hon. Members of Parliament gathered in this august House wants to take a leading role and be active participants in the fight against corruption.

Sir, as the Leader of Government Business in the House indicated this morning, I will be seeking leave next week to present yet another amendment. That amendment will be affecting people who are not here to speak for themselves, but have entrusted this House to speak for them and to make laws that affect them and are binding on them. Before I proceed with that, I thought it would be prudent for me to solicit the support of all my hon. Colleagues that we, ourselves, should bind ourselves, by law, to make cardinal declarations and, also, make declarations three months upon expiry of our offices. That will certainly be a small contribution to the fight against corruption. It is one that I am sure shall receive support from the people who are suffering out there because the money for their drugs has been taken away by corrupt people and that money for their roads has been corruptly taken away.

Sir, like I said, this is a non-controversial motion. I do not think I need to belabour an issue on which I have already received total support from my colleagues.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Dr Njobvu: Mr Speaker, now.

Indeed, corruption in this country is a serious problem. It is a problem which is affecting and slowing down the development of this country. We know that His Excellency the President has spent a lot of resources and energy trying to fight this corruption. The President needs our support and the support of this august House.

Mr Speaker, this week, in this august House, we heard how contractors are failing to meet their contractual obligations. I am very sure that it is partly due to these corruption tendencies in this country. I listened with interest in this august House when a motion to change the way the roads are being funded was moved and I was wondering whether, in fact, the failure to complete the road rehabilitations was a result of poor planning or mainly because of corruption.

Mr Speaker, I strongly believe that corruption in this country is a major factor retarding development. This august House must be seen to be committed and interested in fighting corruption. It is for this reason that I support the motion. This august House must set an example and show the people of Zambia that hon. Members of Parliament are keen to see a corrupt-free Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to this debate. I rise to support the motion for leave to be granted to present this Private Members’ Motion. I believe that the reasons given by the mover and the seconder are extremely convincing and I do not believe that anybody can actually contradict what has been stated. There is no doubt that corruption has been a major blight on our society, economy and morals. It is, therefore, imperative that as leaders, we should lead by example. This is by subjecting ourselves to rules that will make us more transparent and which will lead to the people being able to scruitinise their leaders.

Mr Speaker, as the mover stated, it is not only those who are directly involved in actually handling funds, but also us, as parliamentarians, in some way or another, are able to influence issues pertaining to moneys we distribute and favours that can be granted to people, and hence the need to also be subjected to making declarations.

Mr Speaker, the majority of us, hon. Members of Parliament, are members of the African Parliamentarian Network Against Corruption (APNAC) which is the body which is trying to fight corruption through parliamentarians. I believe that as good members of APNAC, all of us have a duty to support this motion. Otherwise, our membership of APNAC would be hypocritical and something which would raise eyebrows as to why we are not practising what we preach.

Mr Speaker, this Bill will also help to build confidence in the general public, of hon. Members of Parliament and politicians. Currently, politicians are looked upon much like second-hand car salesmen, insurance brokers or people who are not trustworthy. I think that with such in place, it will help to build the confidence of the general public in parliamentarians and politicians in general.

Mr Speaker, I believe that this should be the first step towards other legislation that will help to enhance the issue of transparency in our society. The proposed legislation which will be moved next week, as indicated by the mover, should be supported. Supporting such measures would be Bills such as the Freedom of Information that should highly complement what has been proposed now. I know that currently, it is quite difficult to access the declarations which are made and deposited with the Chief Justice. Having declarations that cannot be accessed by the people is not helpful and, therefore, we need to make sure that we seal all the loopholes.

Mr Speaker, I do not intend to take much time because I believe that this is a non- controversial topic, which …

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Is it procedural?

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, it is procedural.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I seek clarification on whether it is in order for us to deal with a motion which tends to discuss ourselves.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! This motion is historical.

Way back, before your time, the Ministerial Code of Conduct Act or Bill as it was known then, was widely debated in this Chamber as you are doing now. A vote was taken on the Bill and following the various stages, was passed in this House.

Because this measure is being introduced by a Member of Parliament, and not a Member of the Cabinet, it is necessary that the Bill that the hon. Member for Kabwata intends to introduce be preceded successfully by a motion. The procedure is correct.

May the hon. Member for Livingstone continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: I am most obliged Mr Speaker.

I was concluding by stating that we need to have a society which yearns to be as transparent as possible. We need to clear all areas where suspicions lurks. By doing this, we are helping ourselves, as leaders, and I ask all of us in this House to unanimously support the motion.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate this motion, which I support completely.

I would like to thank the mover and the seconder of this motion for the appealing way in which the mover debated this motion before this House. I think he needs to be given the support.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, this motion is non-controversial, especially for the people on your right. On 2nd January, 2002, His Excellency the President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, promised that he would rule this country by what the courts demand. Perceptibly, a motion such as this one can only be debated against, by people who have soiled hands.

Sir we will debate this motion, and any other that will come to this House, if they will be genuine and not inconvenience people. As Members of Parliament, we have been disadvantaged in many ways. For example, a Member of Parliament has to declare interest in order to bid for a contract, which people outside this House do not have to do. I believe that we are heading towards a phase where every person must be in a position to tell people about his wealth, whether he is a contractor in the mines, like Hon. Kambwili ….


Mr Tetamashimba: ... or a farmer, like Hon. Hachipuka, my brothers from the  Southern Province.

Mr Speaker, this is a motion that I wish to support, and I believe that in future, a corrupt leader will not aspire to be a Member of Parliament or even President. This is because as long as it is on record that you have a minor offence, you must not aspire for leadership. I am sure that there are many Zambians with a clean record who can lead us.

Hon. Lubinda must be congratulated for bringing up this motion. This motion should not be connected with the Freedom of Information Bill. That is an issue that has gone to court, and this Government will bring the necessary adjustments that are good for the people on the right side and the public. We hope that when this Bill comes, everyone will support it. For now, let us look at the grave issues of corruption. I think this is what Hon. Lubinda has been trying to bring out.

Hon. Members of Parliament may be accused of many things, especially hon. Ministers and Deputy Ministers. I agree with the mover when he said hon. Ministers are not signatories to public funds. In cases where public funds are stolen, the people who should be blamed are the custodians of the accounts. When the hon. Minister is accused of stealing money from a ministry, the first person to be targeted should be the one that signed the cheques. I hope that is why the hon. Member for Kabwata came up with this motion for us to agree, and let people outside this House know.

Zambian Parliamentarians are not greedy people in terms of finances. Many people who think that you have a lot of money, will be able to read the Bill when it comes out.

Sir, I am sure that NGO leaders will be able to see for themselves whether they should take issue that hon. Members of Parliament are getting a lot of money. If anything, many of you who had good jobs in industries, when you became hon. Members of Parliament, you realised that there is a problem.


Sir, I know that when my traditional cousin, Hon. Konga, stood for the first time, he did not know the salary of a Minister.

Mr Speaker: Order!


Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister is sneaking in a prohibited form of debate.


Mr Speaker: Could he move on to the next point.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I believe that when contractors tender to work on our major roads, they must tell the Zambian people how wealthy they are so that we can know whether they deserve the contract. Fortunately, for hon. Members of Parliament ...

Mr Sichilima: Ba Chibamba balikwi?

Mr Tetamashimba:… and, for the first time, each one of us got information in a letter form from the Head of State that we are supposed to be involved in what happens in our constituencies. A Head of State had to write to each of the hon. Members of Parliament for the first time. Therefore, as the Ministry of Works and Supply and in order to run away from corrupt practices, we would want hon. Members of Parliament,  to be informed that about what is going to happen in their constituencies so that they participate effectively. Again, that goes back to us being transparent.

Sir, I do hope that this Motion, which I believe as I said that only the people with soiled hands will not support, is good.  On your right, Sir, there is nobody with soiled hands. We are going to support this Motion which has been moved by Hon. Lubinda wholly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, I also rise to support this Motion ably moved by the Chairperson of the Zambian Chapter of the African Parliamentarian Network Against Corruption.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am very happy that the President of this Chapter has decided to move this Motion.

Mr Speaker, as leaders, one of the responsibilities placed on our shoulders is to be exemplary and to lead by example. Therefore, as hon. Members of Parliament collectively, we must show our people that we are exemplary, can be trusted and that we too are ready to be probed. I therefore, think that this Motion is seeking to achieve that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we have nothing to hide and are able and ready to stand and be probed by those who elect us into this office.

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption cannot be left to the President, his Cabinet and his Administration alone. It has to go beyond that because the President cannot be in every constituency, but the hon. Member of Parliament can be. Therefore, if there is political will for each one of us to fight corruption, I am sure, we will achieve and win this fight.

Sir, however, let me caution the hon. Members of Parliament against the temptation not to declare assets that they do not have. Let us be as honest as possible. The idea is not to show that you are rich when you are not.


Ms Namugala: The idea is to show that, truthfully, you have an income and you have earned it because at the end of your term, somebody would want to know what you are worth.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: That, I believe is the idea and not for us to see the billions that are not there. People want to know what you are worth so that, at the end of that five years, they will see that you have not illegally acquired any wealth.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I would like to commend hon. Members of Parliament on your left because this is what leadership is all about that, together and collectively, whether you belong to the Opposition or you belong to the Ruling Party, we work for the benefit of the people of Zambia who elected all of us to collectively, for five years, administer this country for their sake. I therefore, wish that this spirit of leadership on the part of those on your left be exhibited more often.

Sir, most of the times, we sit here and fight over issues that we should be agreeing about. Most of the times, hon. Members of on your left disagree with the Government even when they should be agreeing with it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Hon. Members, the spirit that you have exhibited to day, as hon. Members of the Opposition, is the measure of true leadership. Therefore, today, I can say you are true leaders. Hon. Lubinda, you are a true leader.

Mr Speaker, I thank you very much and I support the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to add a few words of thanks and enhance the Motion entitled “Ministerial Code of Conduct”.

Mr Speaker, what I would like to say is that accountability, integrity and responsibility are godly. Therefore, if we, as hon. Members of Parliament and Ministers, are to stand and be counted amongst the people we are leading, we must be morally upright, an element of integrity must be detected in us and we must be principled persons.

Mr Speaker, corruption is a very serious crime, which must not be tolerated at all. Even in the old ages, students of history and the Bible would agree with me that men were elected for being very responsible and being men of integrity and wisdom. Therefore, as the third organ of Governance in this institution, this is a Motion we must unanimously support.

Sir, I would like to say that where as it is prudent and important that hon. Members of Parliament as well as constitutional offices holders be accountable, it must further, go down to those who are directly responsible for dispensation and disbursement of monies.

Mr Speaker, of late, we have always heard that trillions and trillions of kwacha have been misappropriated, misdirected and mismanaged. By who? It is by warrant officers in the names of directors and financial managers. Therefore, I feel it is equally prudent that the Code of Conduct be extended in order to curb inefficiencies and the lust for riches that is eminent and can be visibly seen in our managers.

Mr Speaker, it important to note that whereas money is being appropriated and allocated, it is saddening to hear the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning disclose that K700 billion has not been accounted for. That is disastrous and dangerous.

We, as Parliament, have appropriated moneys. Today, if we went down there, we would find that this money has been released, but it has not reached its intended targets. Where does this money go? Therefore, the first people to be responsible and accountable must be those who are disbursing and handling public finances.

In support of this Motion, I would like to say that it is high time we introduced measures to not only capacitate, but also closely monitor disbursement of these moneys. I do not want to say that the leadership code must be introduced, but that we must formulate a policy to ensure that the disbursement of money is monitored. Nowadays Lusaka is like Nigeria. Who are constructing these houses? Literally, they are civil servants. Ask them where they are getting this money from? They will say that it is from seminars and workshops. All these are ways and means of enriching themselves.

As I support this Motion, Sir, I would like to plead once more that we make a difference in Zambia now as hon. Members of Parliament. Let us be graded by the level of wisdom we show wherever we are. Let us be graded by the words we use against one another at whatever fora or wherever we are. We must be seen to be important and responsible when we interact with the people. That is the integrity which society is going to appreciate. It goes beyond that. It is not only in this House. Accountability can be in terms of discipline or how we interact with one another. If we conduct ourselves accordingly, we are going to be recognised and appreciated by society.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to, most sincerely, thank the hon. Members of Parliament who rose to support this Motion and particularly Hon. Chilembo who asked that procedural question because he was making sure that nobody could later come and question this Motion. I would like also to thank those who supported the Motion silently.

However, let me thank the Regional Representative of the African Parliamentarian Network Against Corruption (APNAC) African Chapter, the Hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, Ms Catherine Namugala for the kind words. I would also like to take advantage of this opportunity to inform all Members of Parliament that APNAC intends to work with all Members of Parliament in the fight against corruption.

In that vein, Mr Speaker, very soon, Members of Parliament shall be invited to participate in television and radio programmes to discuss this issue of corruption. I am sure that with the support that this Motion has received is the support all the activities of APNAC shall receive.

I thank the House for giving me leave to present the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Questions put and agreed. Leave granted.




The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2007

The Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, 2007

The Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, 2007




The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Questions put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1213 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 24th July, 2007.