Debates- Thursday, 1st November, 2007

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Thursday, 1st November, 2007

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: I wish to inform you that the Bank of Zambia will conduct a one day workshop for hon. Members. The theme of the workshop is ‘How to Interpret Bank Charges’. This workshop is intended to enlighten hon. Members on the issue of bank charges and related matters. The information will assist hon. Members to answer questions on the subject from their constituents. The workshop will be held on Monday, 5th November, 2007, in the Amphitheatre, here at Parliament Buildings. Details and other matters relating to the workshop are in the programme to be distributed through hon. Members’ pigeon holes. All hon. Members are requested to attend.

I thank you.




909. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) how many harmer mills and sewing machines the Ministry had distributed to clubs in Luampa Parliamentary Constituency, club by club; and

(b) whether the items at (a) above were given free of charge or not.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, my Ministry, through the Department of Community Development, embarked on a countrywide hammer mill distribution exercise from 1994 to 2005. The Government procured 545 hammer mills which were distributed to women’s clubs countrywide through the Department of Community Development.

The Ministry also received a donation of forty-seven hammer mills from the Chinese Government in 2000 and these were distributed as grants to the women’s clubs. This brought the total number of hammer mills distributed to 592.

Mr Speaker, nine hammer mills were distributed in Luampa Constituency as follows:

Name of               Name of Beneficiary/                No. of                                Year 
Constituency                       Club                       Hammer Mills                    Given

Luampa                                     Lui                                1                                     2005
                                           Mbonyutu                            1                                     2005
                              Chief Amukena’s Palace                  1                                     2000
                                             Mulamba                            1                                     2000
                                                 Lui                                 1                                     1995
                                          Mbonyutu                             1                                     1995
                                              Nyambi                             1                                     1995
                                              Nachele                            1                                     1995
                                              Luampa                            1                                     1995

As regards the sewing machines, only two were distributed to Luampa Constituency as follows:

Name of                       Name of Beneficiary/             No. of                                  Year 
Constituency                        Club                        Sewing Machines                    Given

Luampa                                  Lubumba                            1                                           2000

                                               Luampa                              1                                           2000

Mr Speaker, as mentioned in (a) above, the forty-seven hammer mills donated by the Chinese Government were given as a grant while the rest were given as loans under the loan scheme. Clubs were expected to pay back only the principle cost to the Ministry and these funds were to be treated as revolving fund to extend the benefits to other women’s clubs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Limata stood up before Mr Speaker asked her to stand.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Limata sat down until Mr Speaker invited her to speak.

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the clubs have already paid back the money.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, as you can see, the distribution is in two categories; one from the Chinese Government which was a grant and was given free of charge while the other was given as a loan. To date, it has not been possible to determine which club has paid back the loan and which one has not. However, since it is a new question, we can come back …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: … with the statistics on who has paid and who has not.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Deputy Minister correctly, 592 hammer mills were distributed countrywide, I would like to find out how many of the hammer mills are operational and what measures the Ministry has put in place to take stock of the same hammer mills to ascertain their profitability or otherwise.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, at the moment, it is not easy to tell how many are operational because this is an exercise that entails a lot of expenses. However, I would appeal to hon. Members of Parliament who are here to counter check and give us the details of the hammer mills that are operational and those that are not.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Let me guide the Executive. You must always guess that there is a basic reason a Member would ask a question. If you guess right, you have to anticipate certain follow-up questions which could be asked by the Member asking the question or any other hon. Member on a similar subject. You should come fully armed with that kind of information so that if any question is asked on that related subject, you should be in a position to answer. It is not safe for your ministry to say, ‘that is a new question’ when, in fact, what has been asked is related to the question. Therefore, you should have, in your position, stock-in-trade answers to these questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I shall give an example of the Vice-President. On Fridays, there are times when he comes with prepared texts because he knows what maybe asked. In short, he has guessed right.

Hon. Opposition Member: Leakage!


Mr Zulu (Bwana Mukubwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find from the hon. Minister whether there are plans to continue distributing hammer mills in constituencies.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, there are no such plans to continue distributing hammer mills because the ones distributed earlier have not been accounted for.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: The Chair says that is a correct answer.


Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that his Government has failed to account for public property that was distributed, in terms of hammer mills, to clubs in the country and that he cannot hold liable the clubs that got the hammer mills.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this Government has not failed to account for the hammer mills.


Mr Muchima: The hammer mills were distributed to the clubs and these are being utilised in various constituencies. The stock of these hammer mills is on this list which I can lay on the Table of the House. However, the only problem is that we do not know whether they are operational or not. That is the exercise which can be carried out if requested.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that most of the clubs that received the hammer mills in 1994 do not want to let go. They have treated the hammers mills as their personal property. What is the Government doing so that there is continuity and change of executive?

Ms Mumbi: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this is a result of lack of knowledge by people who form clubs. When there is an executive, it is not the duty of the Government to tell the clubs to change their committees. You must educate the people in the clubs to conduct regular elections so that they account for the property.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that 545 hammer mills were given on loan to clubs, but there is no single unit in their ministry to monitor this. I want him to confirm that loans were given, but there is not a single unit charged with the responsibility to monitor this.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, there is a unit to monitor the use of the hammer mills. However, the lack of resources has made it impossible to go round. Nevertheless, since it has been brought to our attention we will actively look into it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that he is going to go by the word of the Republican President who wants all hon. Members of Parliament to know what is happening in each constituency.

Who was given these hammer mills so that hon. Members of Parliament can make a follow up to account for public property? Kindly, let us know where these hammer mills are and when are you going to do this.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I do not know what happened to the hon. Member when I was reading out the answer. I thought I mentioned that I have a list of …

Hon. Opposition Members: Was it for hammer mills?

Mr Muchima: … for the distribution of hammers mills which I am ready to lay on the Table.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima laid the document on the Table.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, for the ministry and Government in general, to determine the effectiveness of this programme in constituencies, would it not be advisable that they know how many of the hammer mills are currently in use and how many are not working.

The hon. Minister has said that they do not have this information. Can the Ministry collect this information and come back to tell us so that we know whether the programme is worthwhile or better still release this information to determine whether you want to distribute more hammer mills in the country.

Mr Speaker: That question sounds like a point of order, …


Mr Speaker: … but maybe the hon. Minister can answer it.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that earlier on. To emphasise, yes, with the support that the ministry received this year in the Budget and if you will support the ministry in the 2008 Budget, we are going to provide that information.

I thank you, Sir.


910. Mr Mweemba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Munenga-Itebe Bridge which was washed away by the rains in 1988 would be re-constructed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency does not have any information in its data base about the Munenga/Itebe Bridge that was washed away. However, following the appointment of the Mazabuka District Council as a Road Authority for feeder and urban roads for Mazabuka District, it is expected that the rehabilitation for the bridge will be among the prioritised roads and bridges and will be submitted to the Road Development Agency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


911. Mr Imasiku (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether the ministry would consider routine vaccination programmes against CBPP along the cordon line in order to maintain a buffer zone between the Western and North-Western Provinces, including the border with the Republic of Angola, which was currently the source of this dreaded zoonotic disease.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, vaccinations against Contagious Bovine Pleuro-Pneumonia (CBPP) are carried out along the cordon line in the Western and North-Western Provinces and the programme will continue in order to maintain the buffer zone along the Zambia-Angola Border. CBPP is not a zoonotic disease as it does not affect human beings, but only cattle.

I thank you, Sir.


 912. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) how much money, in the form of grants, was released annually to the following:

(i) Bangweulu Water Transport Board;

(ii) Mweru Water Transport Board; and

(iii) the Post Boat operated by the Zambia Postal Services at Samfya Harbour.

(b) how often the grants were released in a year; and

(c) what the purpose of the grant to the Post Boat at Samfya Harbour was when it stopped its operations early last year.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the funds released to the above boards are in line with the Budget Estimates as illustrated below.  In 2006, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning allocated K150 million as grants to the above boards and the money was released as follows:

(i)  K151,250,000   Bangweulu Water Transport Board;

(ii) K151,250,000  Mweru Water Transport Board;

(iii) K151,250,000  Post Boat operated by Zambia Postal Services at 
    Samfya Harbour;

(iv) K50 million  Post Boat Zambezi.

Mr Speaker, in the 2007 Budget Estimates, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning allocated K200 million to each of the above boards.

Sir, for the period January to July, 2007, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning released the following grants:

(i) 117,782, 735  Bangweulu Water Transport Board;

(ii) 117,782,735  Mweru Water Transport Board;

(iii) 117,782,735  Post Boat operated by Zambia Postal Services at Samfya 
     Harbour; and

(iv) 117,782,735  Post Boat Zambezi.

Sir, the grants are released on a monthly basis. The grants received during the period the Post Boat stopped its operations were used to carry out major repairs on the boat which included the purchase of two engines, as the previous ones could no longer be overhauled due to age. The new engines cost about K330 million (US$18,273.18). The remaining funds in the current Budget will be spent on the installation and commissioning of the two engines. The quotation for these works received from Barlow World Equipment, the suppliers of these engines is approximately, K230 million (US$52,000).

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I wish to salute the hon. Minister for having ably answered my question. However, I have a follow-up question for him. The vessel for Bangweulu Water Transport was donated by a Chinese Company which constructed the Mukuku Bridge twenty-one years ago. This vessel has so far almost seen its days. Furthermore, there is a vessel for Mweru Water Transport which was made by the Government of the Republic of Zambia two years ago which has never been operational due to the poor workmanship. How does the Government intend to help the people of Mweru in terms of water transport?

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, there is about K1 billion which we have for a boat for this area. Two months ago, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi was invited to our office so that he could assist us with the size of the boat to be purchased. The boats which we were supposed to have been bought were rejected because they were bigger than what was required.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, water transport is just as important as road transport. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are plans to purchase boats for the canals in Luapula Province.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, we have already budgeted for the boats for the Luapula and Western Provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is talking about money being allocated to the Bangweulu Water Transport Board. I remember this company used to have two types of boats. One used to go on the lake and the small one used to take people to the swamps. These boats have not functioned for sometime now. Therefore, are there any plans to buy smaller boats that can be used to transport people on the Bangweulu Swamps?

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, we have plans to purchase smaller boats. However, I would like to encourage the hon. Member of Parliament for Luapula to have private transporters like is the case in the Western Province, from Mongu to Kalabo, and other parts of the country. There are no Government boats operating in these areas, but there are smaller boats owned by private transporters. Therefore, even the people of Luapula and Northern Provinces should do the same.

I thank you, Sir.


913. Mrs E. Banda (Chililabombwe) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the Government would pay the 10 per cent housing allowance it owes to Civil Servants who purchased Government pool houses.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, there is no 10 per cent housing allowance owed by the Government to civil servants who bought houses. However, it is true that the Government introduced and effected the fixed band and the forty per cent housing allowances at the time we had also introduced owner- occupier housing allowance to cater for the civil servants who had purchased Government pool houses, Council houses or had obtained loans from the Government. However, it was later decided to exclude the owner-occupier housing allowances as an entitlement from 2004.

Mr Speaker, since that time, we have had no representations by any civil servants on any outstanding owner-occupier housing allowance. The Government is committed to paying what it owes to all the civil servants in terms of housing allowances, in line with the current policy guidelines issued by both Cabinet and the Public Service Management Division.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr E. Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I wonder whether the hon. Minister does consider and acknowledge that staying in one’s house while working for another company still entitles that individual to an allowance if all the other employees get it. What are the plans by the Government to ensure that those who are in owner-occupied houses still get some allowance?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, clearly, I did not guess that this question would come. Staying in one’s own house and working for another employee entitles him or her to house allowance, from whom now? That is the problem that I did not expect. However, if he is talking about civil servants who live in their own houses and are entitled to housing allowance, we are paying those.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, conditions of service for civil servants are subject to a collective agreement by the union and the Government. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether at the time of discontinuing the owner-occupier allowance, the unions were consulted, if so, what was agreed on?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, conditions of service are discussed, but sometimes a condition of service will be varied or dropped in preference for a better one. As I said earlier, there was an introduction of forty per cent, but perhaps it was subsumed that for those who were getting 10 per cent, the forty per cent was much higher and that is how it was dropped.  Therefore, it true that these are discussed and negotiated, although what comes out is what is preferred by the workers.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adopt the report of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism for the First Session of the Tenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 12th October, 2007.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, in keeping with their terms of reference of overseeing the functions of the Ministries of Energy and Water Development and Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, the following were the topical issues under discussion by your Committee for this year:

(a) pollution control in Zambian industries;

(b) preservation of Zambia’s natural habitat and heritage; and

(c) promotion of museums in tourism in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of pollution control in Zambian industries, your Committee were informed that the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, through the Environmental Council of Zambia, is mandated, under the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act, to enforce all regulations relating to environmental protection and pollution control. All industrial activity is subject to waste management licensing systems administered by the Environmental Council of Zambia in conjunction with the local authorities, so as to ensure that companies and institutions comply with standards and guidelines under the Waste Management Regulations.

Your committee further heard that the Government was aware of many Zambian industries that had not taken deliberate measures to enhance the quality of life and the preservation of the environment for present and future generations. Your Committee urge the Government to ensure that stringent monitoring and compliance regulations are put in place and enforced.

Sir, your Committee were informed that the Environmental Impact Assessment Process and subsequent Licensing and Compliance Monitoring Systems, under the Environmental Council of Zambia, are able to capture and monitor all industries that produce waste that affects the wellbeing of the environment. Your Committee are pleased to note that the Environmental Council of Zambia regularly holds cleaner production workshops with stakeholders’ organisations such as chemical producing industries and mining companies to encourage concerted efforts in reducing the impact of waste produced by such industries.

However, production workshops with stakeholders’ organisations such as chemical producing industries and mining companies to encourage concerted efforts in reducing  the impact of waste produced by such industries.

However, your Committee note that although the Environmental Council of Zambia appears to be an autonomous body, its independence is only to the extent that the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources agrees with its decisions.

Mr Speaker, it is clear from the concerns raised by stakeholders on this issue that there is a need, as a matter of urgency, for the Government to carry out a review of the laws governing the Environmental Council of Zambia’s operations in order to allow for the supremacy of its decisions.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of preservation of Zambia’s natural habitat and heritage, your Committee were informed that the National Heritage Conservation Commission is charged with the responsibility of conserving and managing Zambia’s natural heritage sites.

Sir, your Committee heard that ideally, the National Heritage Conservation Commission ought to be consulted before any project involving breaking of the ground such as construction of roads and buildings is undertaken. This is meant to ensure that any heritage resources that maybe at the site can be appropriately preserved. Sadly, however, this is not the case because the National Heritage Conservation Commission is often informed of projects long after the licences or permits for such projects have been issued, resulting in considerable loss of heritage resources.

Sir, your Committee learnt that part of the problem is the multiplicity of institutions that are charged with the issuance of approvals, permits and licences for the development of heritage sites and the lack of a comprehensive interaction and interface mechanism amongst these institutions. As a result of this, the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, last year, established a Natural Resources Forum. Membership to the forum is drawn from the heads of the various institutions falling under the ministry. This forum is meant to provide an opportunity for the various institutions under the ministry to share information and expertise so as to avert confrontation and create a conducive atmosphere for each institution to contribute to the development of the nation’s resources comprehensively and in an ecologically friendly manner.

Sir, this forum is, indeed, a welcome move. However, your Committee note that there is a need for the Government to give due attention to the conservation and preservation  of our country’s heritage resources, particularly in the light of the fact that if properly preserved, such resources have the capacity of contributing significantly to poverty reduction, especially in the rural areas where most of these resources are located.

Mr Speaker, your Committee heard that promotion of museums in tourism in Zambia is very important because tourism plays a major role in the economic development of the country and, also, because museums are places where culture is preserved. Culture is the backbone of human life. People’s actions and conduct revolve around their culture, as it gives a particular community or society a sense of identity and pride.

Sir, your Committee learnt with dismay that all the Government-owned museums in the country have been under funded for many years and consequently, have accumulated huge outstanding debt which has been rolling over for almost ten years. This debt includes retirement benefits, statutory contributions and staff emoluments. Your Committee implore the Government to urgently improve the funding to these institutions for the sake of preserving culture for future generations.

Sir, as part of their tours, your Committee visited the Liuwa Game Park in Kalabo where they received reports of harassment of local people by the park management and Zambia Wildlife Authority scouts who are assigned to keep vigil in the park. Your Committee urge the Government to ensure that the park management and scouts assigned to work with the local people are constantly monitored to make sure that there are no abuses of villagers.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also visited the Ndola Lime Company in Ndola and the National Milling Corporation in Lusaka. Your Committee wish to register their disappointment at the fact that the production plants at these two facilities were shut down at the time of the tours.

Mr Speaker, I now want to comment on the fuel shortage that hit the country in October this year. This issue is of grave concern to your Committee, as it now seems to be an annual event. This is despite the Government assuring your Committee in the Action-Taken Report on the Committee’s report for 2006 that a strategic reserve fund has been set up and will be used for strategic fuel reserves. Your Committee were also assured that all oil marketing companies would be compelled by the energy regulation board to store fifteen days’ strategic stock, according to their marketing share and that stringent measures would be taken against those that will fail to comply with this requirement.

Sir, your Committee are of the opinion that the issue of the recurrent fuel crisis is not being handled serious by the Government and therefore, implore the Government to ensure that this does not recur in future, as it impacts negatively on both the daily lives of Zambians and the economic development of the country.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wish to express their gratitude to the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice and services rendered to them throughout the deliberations of your Committee. They are indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before them for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to express our gratitude to you, for appointing us to serve on this important Committee.

Sir, your Committee have no doubt that the observations and recommendations contained in this report will go a long way in improving the energy, environment and tourism sectors while ensuring a healthy and sustainable environment in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mrs Sinyangwe: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion to adopt the report of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism for the First Session of the Tenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 12th October, 2007, allow me first to thank the Chairperson for having ably moved the Motion.

Sir, the Chairperson has already pointed out the salient issues that caught the attention of your Committee during their deliberations. Therefore, I will only touch on some of them.

Mr Speaker, your Committee heard that the National Heritage Conservation Commission is mandated, under the National Heritage Conservation Commission Act, to conserve and manage culture and natural heritage sites. Ideally, the Commission ought to be consulted before any project involving breaking of the ground is undertaken. Projects such as roads and buildings, anywhere in the country, need to be cleared by the Commission so that any heritage resources that may be at the site can be appropriately reserved.

Your Committee notes sadly this is not the case because the Commission is often informed of projects long after licences or permits for such projects have been issued. This has resulted in a considerable loss of heritage resources for the country.

Your Committee appeal, as a matter of urgency, to the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to ensure that the consultative process in relation to the granting of licences and permits for the development of cultural and natural heritage sites should always include the National Heritage Conservation Commission. Also, your Committee noted with sadness that there is no harmonisation of programmes in the ministry, which brings a lot of problems. So, your Committee is also recommending that the many departments that are within the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources should be harmonised so that each one knows what the other one is doing.

Furthermore, I would like to say that your Committee learnt that some investors were allocated land in protected areas and heritage sites before the Environmental Impact Assessment is carried out.

Your Committee wish to state that there is a need for such investors to be punished, as this is a serious breach of the Environmental Protection Pollution Control Act which requires that an Environmental Impact Assessment is carried out before implementation of a project.

I would like to cite here a hotel in Livingstone which has put up a fence of wall despite telling them not to. As a result, the elephants now have through way and have gone to the Zimbabwean side.

Hon. PF Member: Shame!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Very soon, we shall have no tourists going to Livingstone.

Mr Speaker, as part of the tours, your Committee visited, among other places, the Ndola Lime Company and National Milling Corporation. Your Committee wish to express their regret that both of these plants were shut on the days of the visits.

Your Committee recommends that while we appreciate that the people we are visiting are supposed to be informed of our tours, sometimes it is necessary that we ambush them to get a true picture. Sometimes, they manage things for us when we are going.

When we went to the Ndola Lime Company, in the evening people of Ndola complained that the pollution affected the vehicles and people. However, when we got there, we could not get a true picture.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed, during their tours, that workers do not wear proper protective clothing and were perturbed by this discovery. Your Committee urge the Government to urgently ensure that all the industries are compelled by law to provide protective clothing for their employees, because the importance of protective clothing to human health cannot be over emphasised.

Your Committee visited these museums and sadly, they noted that while we appreciate that these are in the country, very little attention is being paid to them. In most cases, we found that there was no adequate staff and training and people are just to man the premises. Therefore, your Committee would like to urge the Government to improve the museums.

The Lusaka Museum, which is in the city, has stuff that has been damped there by the Ministry of Works and Supply and it has been lying there for many years. Your Committee urge the Ministry of Works and Supply to collect the stuff so that it can be used somewhere else rather than letting it go to waste.

Mr Tetamashimba: What are those?

Mrs Sinyangwe: Building materials.

Your Committee also visited Zamleather that discharges a liquid that has a very offensive smell in the production of leather. Further, your Committee discovered that this factory is very close to the people of Matero, a residential area. We urge the ministry to look into this issue or consider relocating this factory.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I wish tot pay tribute to the Committee for the manner in which they conducted their deliberations. Your Committee observed the views of all the witnesses who appeared before them. They did so in the spirit and manner that helped them make recommendations that are, in their view, in the best interest of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Speaker: Before I call for further debate on this Motion or any other motion in the future, I want to guide hon. Members as follows. There is no need for any one of you to apply in writing to the Chair to debate in this House.


Mr Speaker: You are free to do so without prior application. All you need to do is struggle …


Mr Speaker: … to catch the eye of the Speaker. That is the only effort you have to make, because there is so much competition in trying to catch the eye of the Speaker in this House. Is there any further debate?


Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add the voice of Kantanshi to this important Motion. Firstly, I would like to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion and also the entire Committee for the good job.

Mr Speaker, it is very worrying that, every year, as we approach Independence Day, there are shortages of fuel. This has become part of the ritual in the Independence celebrations. This crisis has continued and a permanent solution to this problem seems to be elusive. It is for this reason that I want to dwell so much on the issue of strategic fuel reserves that have been mentioned.

Mr Speaker, this Government seems to have taken the people of Zambia for granted. We were told in 2005 that the Government wanted to find a lasting solution to the problem of fuel in this country. The Government came up with an idea of building strategic fuel reserves that would last about thirty days in case of a fuel crisis. The Government of Dr Mwanawasa, SC. introduced a fuel levy of K153 per litre from that time on.

Mr Speaker, every Zambian who buys a litre of fuel contributes to the strategic fuel reserves. The Government ensured that the Energy Regulating Board (ERB) was mandated to find a way of ensuring that the fuel reserve fund went into procuring the fuel that was required. ERB carried out an inspection on the storage facilities at Indeni and also at the Ndola station. Oil marketing companies (OMCs) have also been involved so that the fuel reserves are put up in Zambia. ERB were satisfied with the storage capacity and said that, what was only required were minor works to the storage at the Ndola station and also at Indeni.

Mr Speaker, two years after, I am very disappointed to hear that the money that was raised has been diverted to stabilising the price. Who made that decision, and how much money was actually raised from the strategic fuel reserves? How much money have we raised as Zambians because we have contributed to this fund? How much money was expected to be raised if this project was going to be successful? Are we trying to say that the planning was not adequate at the beginning? Why should the people of Zambia be taken for a ride. A project is introduced then half way, the project is abandoned. Who made the decision to stabilise the price instead.

Mr Speaker, I think the Zambians need to know the truth, because they are the people who contributed. When this strategy was mapped out everyone was informed. Even on this Floor of the House we were told what the plan was going to be. Today, we are told this plan seems to have been abandoned and the permanent solution has remained elusive.

Mr Speaker, the fuel reserves strategic plan was very important for this nation because we had hope that this country was going to have some fuel reserves, but today, as it is, anything can happen. Every independence day, we shall continue to have fuel shortages. Unless, the Government comes up with a concrete solution and ensures that the taxpayer; the road users are helped in one way or another, the industries will continue to be supported. Otherwise, this country will continue having fuel crises, as we have seen in the past.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state that even when we talk about electricity in Zambia and fuel, it seems these two commodities are expensive in this country. Production cost in this country is very high. This Government should ensure that fuel is affordable to every person. At the moment, electricity tariffs are too high especially for the people in per-urban areas. So, it is important to have a master plan of reducing the price of such services.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) seems to have a problem. If someone wants to have power connected to his or her house, it takes long for ZESCO to connect the electricity even after that person has paid the connection fee. Meanwhile, ZESCO will be using the money. The client might have to wait for a year before power is connected, while ZESCO is making a profit. We want to see efficiency at ZESCO. We want to see a situation were if one pays today, the next day power is connected. 
We also want to ensure that ZESCO improves their management style. At the moment, they are responsible for the many outages we have in this country.

Mr Speaker, there is no way we can have a load shedding programme for more than a year or two years. Why should it be like that if this Government is efficient? We need an efficient Government; a Government that will be able to ensure that when there is a problem, it is rectified. The people of Zambia should be given an efficient service. Currently, the service that is being rendered through ZESCO is not acceptable. It is not acceptable in Zambia or anywhere else in the world. We do not want such a situation to continue.

Mr Speaker, I want to talk about pollution. Acts and agencies to monitor such Parliamentary Acts are there, but I am very concerned that we have a number of scrupulous investors, especially in Ndola. We have situations where Chinese investors in Ndola are smelting copper.

Hon. PF Members: Chinese.

Mr Mukanga: After smelting the copper or making the ore, they throw the slag on the roads.

Ms Mumbi: Shame!

Mr Mukanga: They have taken advantage of the number of potholes on the roads and they are filling them with slag. Where is the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ)? What is happening to this country? We have complained many times and nothing has been done. If there is a law, it should visit such investors. Let these Chinese investors in Ndola be visited by the law, if this Government is going to be seen to be acting.

I would like to talk about Mufulira, Mr Speaker, the town were a lot of copper has come from. The amount of pollution taking place in Mufulira is not acceptable. There is so much sulphur hydroxide that children are suffocating in, gardens are drying and lives are threatened. The song still continues. So, what are you talking about when you say you are on the ground and there is no contamination? When we report to the Government, they just say, ‘if you want you can sue them’. Yes, we are going to sue the companies. We are suing the companies that are polluting the environment and the Government is not taking any action. What I am trying to say is that suing is not a permanent solution; the Government should be seen to be acting on behalf of the people. Failure to this, then there will be no Government.


Mr Mukanga: The people of Zambia should see that we have a Government that acts on their behalf. By the way, that is why they put you in power.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mukanga: Maybe the people of Mufulira did not vote for you, but the people in the villages maybe were doctored to vote for you. It is important that you act on their behalf.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: What then is the way forward? I want to say that there should be a way forward when we deal with matters of pollution. We have a number of mines that are coming up that should take a leaf from what has happened on the Copperbelt on the old mines. There are has been a lot of pollution because the Act has been weak, …

Mr D. Mwila: Nchanga.

Mr Mukanga: … even at Nchanga. Now it is time to ensure that the Act is strengthened so that as we open up the Lumwana and Kansanshi Mines, they find a better Act that will protect the Zambians, the lives of the people and also the environment. It is important that we act in that direction.

Mr Speaker, we should also emulate what others are doing with regard to tree planting. For instance, on Tuesday in South Africa, Mpumalanga, 350 trees were planted. Why can we not do the same? Where is the tree planting?

On the Copperbelt, there are a lot of problems. It is important that we move in and we should be seen to move not just offering lip service. The people out there are not interested in lip service. That is why the people of Nchanga are not voting for you, they are voting for PF, ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … because you are full of being piratical. We want practical people. People who are able to execute like those in PF who are performers. We want to perform and we are telling the people in Nchanga to vote for PF because it will change things; it will change this Act and it will make things happen.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, in my preamble, I wish to congratulate my uncle, Hon. Kaingu on his elevation to Cabinet Minister. He is from the private sector like me, where we believe that if you do not shape up, you ship out.


Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in my contribution to this Motion, I do not want to be a jack of all trades, but master of none. I want to stick to the issue of the Lochinvar National Park. The Lochinvar National Park, for whatever reasons, is eclipsed by some people. The Lochinvar National Park as you know, is known as a bird waters’ paradise because it has the highest bird concentration in this country, if not, the whole continent. That is a very big dimension. Just that alone, can make that area a very special one for two reasons. However, what I am going to discuss here is very discouraging.

It has over 4,000 different species of birds. Secondly, Lochinvar National Park and the Blue Lagoon in Nangoma Constituency are the only places that house the endemic Kafue Lechwe. In Lochinvar National Park, there is a reed or shrub called Mimosa Pigra. The Mimosa Pigra, at the moment, covers an area of 2,900 hectares. This is a foreign plant. From my inquiries, this weed appeared in the early 80s as a small shrub. It began to grow in the Lochinvar National Park where our people cannot easily enter. Today, this weed covers 2,900 hectares and is now spreading into the cattle areas of Kafue South Area. This is a scandal and is tantamount to economic sabotage.

Mr Speaker, the authorities that are in charge of Lochinvar were incubating a weapon of mass destruction for the people of Bweengwa, Namwala and Itezhi-tezhi. The people of Bweengwa, Namwala and Itezhi-tezhi house the highest concentration of traditional cattle in this country. Is this a weapon to destroy our mainstay?

Sir, we had a meeting with the Environmental Council of Zambia and the Zambia Wildlife Association (ZAWA) in Monze. It is only now that they are moving in to try and contain this weed. They are only approaching it from one side. The front has not been given by the Global Environment fund. They will only be able to clear 500 hectares, leaving 2,400 hectares. According to them, this weed doubles every year. Therefore, to me, this is child play. We will not accept this. We want the Government to declare this a disaster and contain this weed. Its a threat to the livestock industry and tourism of that area. It is unacceptable. As long as I am in this House, I shall play hard ball on this issue.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, why did the country come to know about this weed through a foreign investor called Star of Africa, and yet we have people that are charged to look after these natural resources. It is very disappointing.

Mr Speaker, the Kafue Lechwe is an endemic species; this means native and restricted to that area, but during the inchekeleko era (cut a piece for me) period, this animal is no longer endemic. It is now found on some farms outside the Lochinvar National Park, and also in South Africa. This has reduced the value of our areas. This is not acceptable and the people will be calling for the compensation for the loss of value of the Kafue Lechwe. This needs to be investigated. How come the Kafue Lechwe has found itself in some game farms in this country and has been exported to South Africa?

Sir, the Lochinvar National Park, for whatever reason, has not been promoted as a tourist attraction. I know this very well. We know that Lochinvar National Park is a very unique tourist attraction. The lodge in Lochinvar, which has been declared a national heritage, has collapsed. Dr Manda used to stay in this lodge. It was a very beautiful lodge. I know that His Honour the Vice-President knows about the lodge. That lodge is finished, and yet we have a Government in office. We have ZAWA, Heritage Commission and the National Tourism Board. We need to know the reason this lodge has been left to collapse.

Mr Speaker, the road network to the Lochinvar National Park has been neglected by the authority that be. ZAWA is supposed to alert the people that are concerned. In fact, ZAWA is supposed to work on the roads leading to National Parks. ZAWA and the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and National Resources have been very quiet on the issue of the road to the Lochinvar National Park, which is 60km from Monze. People are not asking for a tarmac, but an all-weather gravel road. Today, if it starts raining, you cannot go to Lochinvar by car. You need to use a 4 x 4 vehicle. Why has this happened with all this unique characteristic of the Lochinvar Park as a potential tourist attraction?

There is no deliberate policy to sideline this tourist attraction by some people. We need to have these answers. I am very happy that the Government sent a Director General from ZAWA two weeks ago. He is from the private sector We had meetings in Bweengwa Constituency in my two chiefdoms, Chiefs Hamusonde and Choongo. I am very grateful for that gesture, you are beginning to move.

I was surprised that some of the issues were not known. Let us begin from there to address the issues of the Lochinvar National Park so that it gets back to what it was. When we were young, Lochinvar was the only place we went to, to view animals. Today, school children cannot go there because of the poor road network. At the moment, there is no accommodation in the Lochinvar National Park. The Congo is even better.


Mr Hamududu: In the Lochinvar National Park, there is a beautiful lagoon. That was a best spot to watch bird species. It is all covered by the Mimosa Pigra. When I went there, I shed tears.


Mr Hamududu: Yes. I am a believer and that is a tragedy. God gives you a beautiful thing and you destroy it. I cried.


Mr Hamududu: Sir, the Star of Africa have left because they cannot view birds there anymore. The beautiful scenery has been obscured by the Mimosa Pigra, and yet we have ZAWA and the Zambia National Tourism Board. They just talk about Livingstone. After all, the Victoria Falls are known to be in Zimbabwe. In South Africa, they know that they are in Zimbabwe. In Namibia, they know that the Victoria Falls are in Zimbabwe and not in Zambia. They just want to travel from Brussels and so on, without doing any work. You must fire those people in the Zambia National Tourism Board.


Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, there is a need to include the ceremony of our people in that area in the tourism package. The movement of cattle from the upper land to the flat land is a very beautiful ceremony called Chasulumesi. We need to package it in our tourism activities so that tourists can go and watch animals following a drum. I am sure you have seen it on Television during the Shimunenga. It is a wonderful activity that you must package in the tourism activities.

Sir, the mainstay of that area is livestock. We shall not entertain the so-called rice plantation in the Kafue South Bank. You can only do it upon our dead bodies. We shall not allow that.


Mr Hamududu: That will remain God’s-given farm for our people to keep their cattle. That is where we grew up and it is what we depend on even now. Any attempts by the Government to bring other activities there will be met with strong force by the local people. That will remain grazing area for our animals. If the Government has failed to run the Lochinvar National Park, they can close it so that we can graze our animals there. Why choke our land and then mismanage it? Lochinvar National Park was a place for foul. We conserved the protected the animals, like the Kafue Lechwe, but when we handed them over to the Government, they were mismanaged. That is unacceptable. We need to protect the indigenous economic activities of these areas.

In my conclusion, I want to state that cattle rearing, in Bweengwa, is our prized economic activity. When you revive the Lochinvar National Park, there must be a way for us to live together side by side; that is livestock and tourism. Even the map of Lochinvar is very funny. The main route that we use to take our animals to the islands passes through the national park and everyday, our young people that go to the cattle posts are arrested. The Government needs to give us routes through which our animals can pass. We need those routes for our animals to go to the islands because that is the main economic activity and tourism is second.

My Speaker, in conclusion, as I have said, the mismanagement of Lochinvar National Park and other related issues, is tantamount to economic sabotage and we will not accept it. These issues must be corrected as quickly as possible.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to echo the sentiments of Hon. Mukanga so that we can cement this issue of fuel strategic reserves. Let us be consistent as a Government. When we say something today, we must be able to say the same thing five days later. The K153 per litre that Zambians are paying on fuel is not for stabilising the price of fuel. It is high time the people in office realised that the decisions they make will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

Mrs Mumbi: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Nobody was consulted. The Zambians who are paying the K153 were not consulted. Somebody just woke up, because he felt he ran Zambia, and made a decision without consulting the people of Zambia. Hon. Minister, the newspapers and radio stations are there, so before you take any action inform the people of Zambia. The issue of fuel shortage, like Hon. Mukanga stated, has become an annual event. It has even become more pronounced than the Independence Celebration Day.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We had the other hon. Minister who was even …

Hon. PF Members: Mpombo!

Mr Kambwili: We cannot learn from these mistakes. If we cannot plan for an important commodity such as fuel, surely, what are we going to plan for? The engine of the economy is fuel. I was saddened when I visited the Luanshya Copper Mines. All the machinery was packed because there was no fuel and this is the machinery that was supposed to be productive, yet somebody in the name of Hon. Konga was busy saying that we had enough stocks. Let us, for once, be honest with what we do. If things are bad, let us just state so. It is better to call a spade a spade than call it a peak for the sake of impressing people.

Politics of appeasement must come to an end in this country if we have to develop. We had a critical shortage of fuel, and yet the hon. Minister continued saying in the press that the situation was back to normal while there were long queues at filling stations. If the MMD Government is not careful, this issue of fuel will make them fall by 2010.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mumbi: Namukota mu leya.

Mr Kambwili: If we cannot manage the fuel system, can we surely manage our schools? If fuel, which even makes the hon. Minister move from his house to Parliament and then to his office, cannot be managed properly, surely, can some of the hon. Ministers who do not have children manage the education system?

Mr Kambwili: It is important to put our minds to what we are doing. Those flags that we are given are not for decorations. They are for a purpose. That is why even when you come to the road-block, you just pass, but some of us are searched. It is because you have to work for the people of Zambia, we do not want you to be disturbed. Now, it appears you are playing with those flags. Let us perform our duties as hon. Ministers. This issue of fuel must not be taken lightly. You even bring people who have not been cleared with the Carlington Maize Scandal to be involved in the procurement of crude oil. It is a shame. It is a serious matter. We are the Government that is saying we want to fight corruption, but at the same time bring a bank whose chief executive has not been cleared in the Carlington Maize Deal to be involved in buying fuel. You are even scared to state the commercial bank involved. You are just saying there is a commercial bank involved unless you are put under pressure that is when you will reveal. You even knew that this person has a questionable character and background, but you went ahead and involved …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member should be very cautious as insinuations in this House can lead to some difficulties. Debate the issues in the report.

You may continue.

Mr Kambwili: Let us be careful with which people we involve in strategic national issues.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of pollution, it is in this House where a hon. Minister stood up, not a hon. Deputy Minister, and said we had the power to overrule the Environmental Council of Zambia. Surely, those people are employed and they are being paid tax-payers’ money to manage our pollution, but when they give a recommendation, you say that because you are the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, you have the authority to overrule them. Why hire them in the first place?

It is better that the same hon. Minister who have the powers to over rule the Environmental Council of Zambia continues monitoring the environmental issues rather than having a board that is toothless.

Hon. PF Members: Rubber stamp!

Mr Kambwili: We are talking about pollution. Sir, for your own information, recently, at Konkola Copper Mine (KCM), the Environmental Council of Zambia rejected that site. They said that it was not good for a smelter because of the pollution aspect. The council had allocated alternative land at Twabula, but the Government over ruled them and said that the smelter at KCM should go ahead. Surely, are we interested in the lives of our people or the money from the investors? In this country, it appears that we consider investors first at the expenses of the lives of our people.

Mr Speaker, in Ndola, people protested about the Zambezi Oil Transporting Company (ZOT). The Environmental Council of Zambia stated that ZOT could not build those strategic plants near the roads and above the overhead preferences. However, ZOT has constructed the dangerous strategic reserve tanks and everybody is watching. When we come here, we want to pretend to our people that we are monitoring pollution. Let us be serious with national issues.

Mr Speaker, we have a Government that can even poach a Member of Parliament who said that for people in Chingola to be polluted was fine.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Where are we going as a nation? Let us be serious. That is why the people are upset. Us, in PF, we told him to go because it is not PF saying that people must be polluted.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Do not bring things that are being debated on the platform outside the House into this House. Debate the report.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance.

Hon. PF Members: Nabomfwa!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, ZESCO is another eyesore. We know that our people cannot afford the current electricity charges, and yet we want to go ahead against their wish by increasing the tariffs. We know that 70 per cent of our people have no jobs, and yet we are doing it in the interest of the same minority to increase the electricity tariffs. Let us look at this issue seriously.

Mr Speaker, we have a situation in Luanshya and other ex-mining townships where at the time the houses were transferred from ZCCM to private ownership, there were no bills generated because nobody knew who was going to pay the bills. Therefore, for one and half years, the bills were going to ZCCM and when the houses were transferred to the poor ex-miners, it was discovered that the bills had accumulated huge amounts of money between K3 million to K5 million.

Mr Speaker, we have made presentations to this Government that these bills must be written off because it was not the fault of the miners that the bills accumulated to as high as K5 million. Unfortunately, this listening Government has plugged their ears to that issue.

Mr Speaker, people of Mpatamatu, Mikomfwa, Kantanshi and many others are in the dark because power has been cut off as a result of that mistake.

Mrs Mumbi: Tell them!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, people are suffering, and yet the mistake was between ZESCO and ZCCM. Hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development let us write off those bills. It is not fair for your Government to turn an area which was electrified into darkness. We need to go forward to electrify other areas other than bringing darkness where there was light.

So let us look at this issue of the ex-ZCCM miners and the bills with a lot of seriousness. We are tired of ZESCO telling us that they are owed money when there was a technology to have prepaid metres. Why should they complain that they are owed so much money?

Mr Speaker, in the United Kingdom where my family stays, we do not talk about such issues. If you do not have the money you do not have electricity and it ends there.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Our ZESCO here, even when they have a technology, they do not make use of the system because they want to divert money for other things and then claim that they are owed money by the customers. Go and introduce the prepaid metres so that people can manage their electricity bills according to their pockets. Hon. Minister, we are tired of these issues.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for me to catch your eye. Sir, I stand to add my words to support the Motion. However, before I go any further, I want to say that tourism is one of the industries that are very important to the development of the country. The tourism industry in the economy of a country cannot be over emphasised.

Mr Speaker, tourism is a non resting industry, owing to the fact that it can push the economy of the country further. That is why, today, we are always talking about tourism. If developed, you will see our economy improving. This can be evidenced by people like us who come from the tourist areas. Having listened to the debates, they are not centering much on tourism. Therefore, I want to emphasise that we pay attention to some of the most important tourist areas.

Mr Speaker,  having listened to the report, I heard that what they stated about Liuwa was just the issue of people being harassed, but the major problems in Liuwa have not been cited in this report, and yet the Committee visited that place.

Mr Speaker, before I go further, let me say that the Government has done quite enough in marketing the tourism industry in the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: On the national television, there is a lot of marketing going on in tourism and improved infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, you will note that from some of the tourist areas like the parks, ZAWA has done some work, but it very important for us to reach some of the specific areas like my friends from Bweengwa has stated. There is a need to look at some of these areas that are of importance in the tourism industry.

Sir, let me also zero down to the Liuwa National Park and, perhaps, also the Nangozwe that are found in the Western Province. If you go to Liuwa, as you are already aware, this is the only part in the country that has a big population of wilda beast and has many attractions for the tourists.

Mr Speaker, if we take some time to develop this area, the economy of this country, including Kalabo or Western Province in general, maybe improved. It is in this regard that we want to thank the Government of the day for completing the construction of the road from Mongu to Kalabo. From what we have heard, it appears that it is going to be completed.

Mr Speaker, even if we complete these roads, if we do not look at what is happening in various game parks, the story will remain the same. The Liuwa National Park is a park where we do not have a road. The road from Kalabo to Liuwa does not exist because it is sandy all over.

Mr Speaker, when I visited the area recently, I found some tourists trying to cross form Kalabo to Liuwa. Unfortunately, when they were about to leave, the pontoon got stuck in the sand. Even if we want to boost our economy, how do we expect tourists to go to such areas?

Mr Speaker, when you are crossing the pontoon from Kalabo to Liuwa and if you are scared because you have never crossed at this point before, you cannot make it because the pontoon which is there is not really a pontoon per se. When I was a director for the Health Institute within Kalabo, we almost lost a vehicle in the water.

Mr Speaker, I am encouraging the Government to make sure that the pontoon is replaced. I have made efforts to make sure that the road from Kalabo to Liuwa Game Park is improved.

Mr Speaker, when I visited the ZAWA offices, I was referred to African Parks who also told me that they do not have the means. This is why I am requesting the listening Government, I know that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply is listening and the well-vested hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is also willing help, on behalf of the people of Liuwa, to have the road put in this year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, there is only a dust road and tourists are always getting stuck there. We need even a gravel road from Kalabo to Kena, a stretch of about one hundred and twenty kilometres which would enable tourists to go to Liuwa. I was in Mpika just a few months ago, and I found tourists going to Tanzania. When I asked them why not Liuwa, they said they could not go to that place because it was very difficult to reach.

Mr Speaker, if we can manage to make that road gravel, I am sure tourism in that area will really expand.

Mr Speaker, I am also requesting for a deliberate policy to assist the people of Liuwa build a lodge. At the moment, there is no lodge in the park. I am requesting the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and natural Resources, who is also a fan of that area, to make a deliberate programme that will help indigenous people. Borrowing Hon. Chizhyuka’s term, the people should be given some amount of money to build some lodges in Liuwa.

Mr Speaker, tourism in Liuwa is actually the scenery of the whole place. Tourism is our main stay in that place. As I always put it, Liuwa Game Park is a sleeping economic giant which if we put time and resources to develop instead of just leaving it to the investors, will see tourism improve in that area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Members: Indigenous.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Thank you Mr Speaker. I almost thought I was not ever going to speak this week.

Mr Speaker, I was a Member of the Committee on Energy and an active participant in the deliberations of that Committee. Rather than spend time groping in the dark, I have decided to be to the point like Hon. Hamududu and specifically deal with one issue I think no justice has been done to and this is the suffering, the servitude, and the slavery being perpetrated on the people of Liuwa by African Parks and ZAWA.

We travelled to Kalabo. We crossed the pontoon and proceeded into the Liuwa Game Park. What I saw there made me annoyed for the rest of my trip. Little did I know that this country, Zambia, which got independent in 1964 would have slaves.

How can you be happy as a Government running on a vote given to you in a national franchise in which the rural people predominantly decided you must rule this country, and yet your people in Liuwa live in total slavery and servitude?

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Major Chizhyuka: Before business was suspended, I was alluding to the fact that this current MMD Government is a Government which has a preponderancy of the rural vote.

Mr Muteteka: He was consulting the dictionary during the break.

Mr V. Mwale: A French dictionary.

Major Chizhyuka: They are in power today in this country because of the rural people like the people of Liuwa.

Mr Speaker, if the Lozi people do not want to talk for themselves, I will talk for them.


Major Chizhyuka: On the 25th of December, 1948, Mr Mbikusita of the Western Province was elected in Kafue Town to a challenging position of the first leader of a political party known as the Zambia African Congress. In his job, Mr Mbikusita, among other responsibilities, was sure that he would be doing justice to the cause of the Western Province in addition to the rest of the country. Later, the Western Province saw the likes of Munakayumba Sipalo, Yesu Nalumino Mundia who stood up to be counted as political luminaries of this country.

Those men of valour are now dead. Little did they know that the land of their forefathers, from where they hail, would today have amongst them slaves in Bulozi in Liuwa while a Government elected by the indigenous rural people leads.

Nalumino, Sipalo and all the others never would have thought that the Nyengos or the Makoma people would be living in absolute servitude, Mr Speaker! Those men must today be turning in their graves.

Mr Muteteka: How can they turn when they are dead?
Hon. Member: Take it easy, drink some water.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the people of Liuwa live in absolute fear, misery and hunger. To go and catch fish in the land of their forefathers, where their forefathers caught fish, they now must travel 40 kilometres to get a pass from a white man who came from South Africa.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, this is our country, Zambia. At the end of five years you go to those people in Liuwa to ask for their vote and as soon as they give you the vote, you forget about them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Major Chizhyuka: I was there. I got a film and the Chairman Hon. Lishika will show you. You call yourself a Government?


Major Chizhyuka: The white man from South Africa has come to fence-off the fish ponds where the people of Liuwa have always fished.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mukaleta imilandu!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, these are things that we saw with our own eyes. Even when they have been allowed to catch the fish from the ponds from which they have always fished, you have an array of gun trotting ZAWA officers with AK47.

Sir, have you read the Nelson Mandela story? Have you read the story of apartheid in South African? You are a Government elected by the people. You should have taken steps to protect the people who made you occupy those offices and drive the cars you are driving today.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: What values is this placing on your vote if you cannot look after your own people? Mr Speaker, that is with respect to catching fish.

Sir, with regard to cutting grass to thatch their houses, the people of Liuwa have to get a pass from this Boer. Kucesa bwizu! Can you imagine, Mr Speaker! The Boer has come to live and soldier on in Liuwa.

Mr Speaker, the people of Liuwa gets their energy from firewood, but to go and cut firewood, those Zambians …

Mr Muntanga: Indigenous Zambians.

Major Chizhyuka: … have to travel for 40 kilometres and in some areas 50 kilometres, if they do not find a person to give them a pass to go and cut the firewood right behind them. I know the hon. Member of Parliament is concerned about roads, but there is a need to address, first of all, the issue of human rights that have been flouted in Liuwa. This is our country!

Mr Speaker, I came out of that place wishing someone could box me so that I could box him back.


Mr Speaker: Order!


Mr Speaker: There is no room for proposing violence …


Mr Speaker: … in this Chamber. The hon. Member may resume his debate, but debate and emphasise factually.

Major Chizyuka: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

I was just expressing the level of anger that griped me when I came out of Liuwa. It was that bad and I told everyone that I was extremely angry.

Hon. UPND Members: You are still angry.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, in addition, we found in Liuwa, across that Luanginga River …


Major Chizhyuka: … the Spirit of the River …


Major Chizhyuka: Yes, because you did not talk, I had to talk on your behalf.


Major Chizhyuka: This Government has attracted an organisation called the Spirit of the River. The Government did not know what this organisation put into the waters of Western Province. This Government did not know what the Spirit of the River got out of the waters of Western Province. All we got to see was the fact that fish was swimming with lesions.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is now dealing with matters of science.


Mr Speaker: You have to be very careful with the way you associate activities with results. You have to prove that the lesions you saw on the bodies of the fish are related to the activities of the company you are referring to. If you cannot make that scientific connection, please, move on. You may continue.

Major Chizhyuka: I thank you, Mr Speaker. When it was clear that the Lozi people did not know where the lesion on the fish was coming from, we asked them, ‘What do you think is the cause?’


Major Chizhyuka: We asked the Lozi people on that Committee Tour. They said, ‘We do not know. Even our father’s forefathers never saw this’. What is it that is strange that has happened to your waters?

Mr Muntanga: Suddenly!

Major Chizhyuka: They said, ‘Maybe the flood was too much, but also we do not understand the Spirit of the River’.


Major Chizhyuka: That was from the Lozi people, Mr Speaker.


Major Chizhyuka: Spirit of the River!


Major Chizhyuka: If you want to understand the contamination of the waters …

Mr Mabenga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.


Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I rise to ask whether it is right for the hon. Member on the Floor of the House to begin talking about things he knows may refer to me or probably the Speaker and others. Is in order, Sir?


Mr Speaker: Order! This Chair is listening to the debate and will not be participant to this debate even though the Chair knows better.


Mr Speaker: You may continue.

Major Chizhyuka: I thank you Mr Speaker. I like that point of order, but all I am saying is that the issue of fish in the Western Province is a cardinal one. The Lozi man on the Liuwa and Kalabo plains cannot live without fish.

Hon. UPND Members: That is their wealth.

Major Chizhyuka: Since it is their wealth, the entire economy of the Western Province came to a stand still because the Lozi man could not sell his fish. The tourists who arrived in Bulozi Land could not buy the fish.

Hon. UPND Members: Because of the lesions!

Major Chizhyuka: Some of us where even scared of eating the beef because we were not too sure whether the cattle had also drunk the water from the Zambezi River which was contaminating the fish. I think this contamination was done by an organisation which might have been looking for diamonds.

Mr Speaker, this is why we have called this Government in the National Press to get a group of scientists to go and camp even for three or four weeks in the Western Province and research on what is killing the fish in the Zambezi River. How do you leave an entire province that voted for you so that you can be an hon. Minister, an hon. Deputy Minister or an hon. Member of Parliament in the ruling Government, unattended to? You have done absolutely nothing about the people’s plights in that province. This year, the story of the Western Province has been a sad one. There were floods and crops were washed away. The fish and cattle have been contaminated ...


Major Chizhyuka: … and yet you sit there and say you are ruling.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I am waiting anxiously to debate the same issue and I cannot wait any longer.


Mr Sichilima: Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala, who is debating so well, in order to start misleading the nation by insinuating that even animals are suspect. Is that not going to mislead the people out there and they may even stop buying animals. I am saying so because this has not been scientifically proved.

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.


Mr Speaker: Order! My serious ruling is to reiterate the fact that hon. Members in this House must debate factually. I emphasised ‘factually’. When I guided the hon. Member that unless he can scientifically correct those allegations he is making with certain activities he was referring to, he should move on. I have not heard him make the scientific connection. I was guiding him on. He has gone on to speculate. There is no room for speculation in this House. This is why, for instance, this National Assembly owns one of the best stocked libraries of all the Parliaments in Africa. This is why hon. Members of Parliament have access to internet instant information. This is to ensure that you do not debate speculatively, but factually.

Hon. Member for Namwala, you can speculate, but not in this House. You have five minutes and forty seconds to conclude your debate. If you have nothing more to say, but speculate, let those who wish to debate factually step in. You may continue to debate with facts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the emphasis was on the fact that we asked the Lozi people and they …

Mr Speaker: Order! Take your seat. You are qualifying the ruling of the Chair. Those Lozi people you spoke to were also speculating. Do not be drawn into speculation in this House.

Move on to your next point.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I will move away from speculation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: The point that must be understood is that the cattle are suspect because we all know that there is Contagious Bovine Pluero-Pneumonia in that area. To date, this Government has not eradicated this disease. Is it not suspected that the cattle have this disease?

Mr Speaker, the issues that I wanted to raise in my debate were that the indigenous people of the Western Province have suffered enough at the hands and activities of this Government. That is a fact and not speculation. We want the suffering of the people of Liuwa to end. We want the slavery to end. These people are also Zambians. They are people who voted for you to be in power. Therefore, this problem must be solved forthwith.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to wind up debate on the Report of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism for the First Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

Sir, first and foremost, I wish to thank your Committee for a well-presented report based on facts gathered during the tours to scrutinise and verify submissions made by my ministry in a Committee during the year.

Mr Speaker, your Committee has made a number of observations on the recommendations. My ministry has already started taking action to implement some of the Committee’s recommendations that do not require financial resources.

Sir, let me address myself to some of the issues contained in the report that my ministry has since acted upon. With regard to the first topic on pollution control in Zambian industries, my ministry, in line with the Committee’s recommendations, undertook to review the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act of 1994 to update its provisions with respect to arriving at penalties which are related to levels of pollution.

At this juncture, let me address what Hon. Kambwili said. He said that my ministry overrules what the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) does. As far as I am concerned, we do not overrule ECZ, we actually advise …

Hon. Opposition Members interrupted.

Mr Kaingu: … ECZ. It is provided for in the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act that an hon. Minister can actually advise the ECZ.

Hon. Opposition Members interrupted.

Mr Kaingu: In any case, ECZ is our creation.

Hon. Opposition Members interrupted.

Mr Kaingu: It is part of the ministry and therefore, it is not true that we actually overrule them. We advise them so that they can understand that for us to develop, we should, to a certain extent, compromise the environment.


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is true that where we have open pit mines, we no longer have mountains. Where we have factories, we no longer have trees. That is what I mean by compromising the environment.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: On the preservation of …

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, the Chair is protecting you against hecklers.


Mr Speaker: May you debate and shed light on this Motion in so far as your Ministries understand the issues raised. You may continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, on the preservation of Zambia’s natural habitat and heritage, the Committee made useful observations and recommendations on the lack of mechanisms to enhancing interaction among various Government institutions trying to win the responsibility of managing heritage resources. The Committee’s recommendation to integrate the Natural Resources Consultative Forum in the management structure of the Ministry would defeat its objective of being an independent advisory body to the Government on matters of natural resources conservation.

The observation that investors commence development before environmental impact assessments are carried out, is noted. The law needed to be amended because it already provides for environmental impact assessment process to be carried out before the development of allocated land for investment. What needs to be stepped up is the enforcement of the law.

With regard to the third topic, on the promotion of museums in Zambia, my Ministry takes note of the Committee’s recommendations. My Ministry’s Resource Committee will endeavour to implement some of the recommendations.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the Committee’s observations during their tour to the Konkola Copper Mines, Chilanga Cement Plc and Ndola Lime Company Plc, my Ministry takes note of the recommendations and will step up the monitoring of these institutions so as to ensure compliance with the environmental laws of the land.

Mr Speaker, on the observation made by your Committee with regard to the need to protect the integrity of the national parks from development of hotels and lodges, my Ministry has taken note of the recommendations.

Hon. Hamududu talked about 9,000 hectares of the weed that is attacking the Lochinvar National Park. My Ministry is taking a very serious step to intensify the weeding. We really feel sorry that your park is under seizure. We will do our best to eradicate the weed.


Mr Kaingu: However, it is not yet a national disaster.


Hon. Member: Quality.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, in conclusion …


Mr Kaingu: I wish to thank the members of the Committee and the hon. Members of the House, especially those who debated with a lot of facts not speculation …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Kaingu: …on the Committee’s report in an objective manner. My Ministry will take seriously, the observations and recommendations made in the report. To Hon. Major Chizhyuka, I want you to work with Hon. Milupi because he is the Chairman of the board for Liuwa.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion on the report of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism.

In the first instance, I would like to thank all the hon. Members of the Committee for a very detailed report whose findings the Government will make good use of.

Mr Speaker, regarding some of the issues that have been raised, the Government, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, would also like to make some comments in as far as some of the issues that have been talked about are concerned, the major one being the famous Strategic Reserve Fund for the petroleum sub-sector.

Mr Speaker, it is correct to note that the purpose of the Strategic Reserve Fund, whose cost of petroleum products at the filling stations is to the sum of K133, 000 was originally set up for the purpose of establishing a Strategic Reserve Fund which the country can fall on in the event of a crisis in the petroleum sub-sector. This fund is currently used as a stabilisation fund. I know that sometimes hon. Members have been emotive over this issue, but the information which has been given to those who have cared to listen, is that from inception, at the rate of collection, this fund stands at about K 126 billion. If hon. Members who have the capacity to make some calculations would do so, they will realise that, as a country, for what we consume, we need to set up strategic reserves in the nine provinces. Even just one ship load of 90,000 metric tonnes, the figure comes to K2 trillion.

Therefore, in the interim, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) thought it prudent to use this fund as a stabilisation fund. The same hon. Members are contradicting themselves in this House. On one hand, they want low prices of one form of energy and on the other hand, they want an increment on another form of energy which is a very big contradiction on the hon. Members’ part. 

Mr Speaker, this Government wants to maintain stability in the energy sector. One of the ways to maintaining stability is to maintain affordable fuel prices for the citizens of this country so that this can spur economic development. Needless to say, as we speak now, after decades of governance of this country, this Government has attained single digit inflation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Needless to say, growth in the economy is now close to seven per cent. Needless to remind the hon. Members, the exchange rate has stabilised. You know that you need to give this Government a pat on the back.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: All what the hon. Members need to do is drive along Kafue Road and park at Castle Supermarket. You will see how much this economy is moving forward. What is driving this economic movement? It is energy, Sir.

Therefore, we need to stabilise the cost of petroleum products so that this Government can further move the economy forward. I could also challenge hon. Members who are able, to go to either the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) or the Road Traffic Commission, they will be informed that this country is registering between 300 and 400 vehicles every month. This country is on the move. People now have more disposable income because the GDP is now in the pockets of citizens.

Mr Speaker, reference was made to the issue of the recent petrol shortage which hit the market. Of course, the Government regrets this occurrence, but I think that there is a different forum at which this sad event was appropriately explained. Needless to say, I would like to urge hon. Members to tell the truth in this House. Let us be factual and stop being speculative as has been guided because the fuel shortage, firstly, related to petrol, while diesel to the debt of the shipment of the new products was actually in excess supply.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Konga: Therefore, economic activities were not at all affected, except those which have to do with petrol for movement of vehicles. None of the mining, industrial and agricultural activities that are driven by diesel were affected because we had surplus quantities of diesel in storage.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I just want to comment on the issue relating to the other form of energy; the electricity sub-sector.

Sir, I would like hon. Member to conceptualise that the electricity sector in this country last showed investment almost forty years ago.

Hon. Opposition Members: Why?

Mr Konga: When this Government took over, it undertook with other partners to rehabilitate the electricity sub-sector. What you can imagine seeing on the road as potholes also existed in the electricity sub-sector although there are not visible with your eyes. As a result, this able Government, …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: … looked for resources to mend the potholes that were not visible to your eyes. Due to the rehabilitation that is going on now, some energy has been lost.

Dr Machungwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, who is asking hon. Member to be factual, is not being factual himself. Is he in order to say that the rehabilitation in the electricity sector started with his Government, when, in fact, this has been a continuous programme for many years and there are so many loans from the World Bank that have been going towards rehabilitating the Kariba North Bank, Kafue Gorge and elsewhere. Is he in order to state that this started now when this is a continuous process.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development should reply to the point of order by the hon. Member for Luapula.

Mr Konga indicated assent.

May he continue.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the power sector has been undertaken by the MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! New Deal!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, that is factual no loan was secured for the rehabilitation. This can be accredited to the New Deal Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Therefore, I would like to respond by stating, factually, that the current rehabilitation of mending potholes in ZESCO …

Hon. Opposition Member: Where are they?
Mr Konga: They are there, but are invisible. Because of the nature of the infrastructure, they need to be rehabilitated. Therefore, in order to stimulate further economic growth, this Government wants to ensure that there are adequate energy resources. To start with, we are rehabilitating and this is attributed to the New Deal Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the issue of rehabilitation has necessitated that some plants must be taken out like a car. You can drive a car everyday, but on one particular day, you cannot use that car because you have put it away for service. In the same vein, some equipment in the energy sector has been taken out so that it can be rehabilitated and it will be brought back after this exercise. The exercise of rehabilitation is taking out almost the third of the installed energy capacity of this country. That is what is contributing to what is known as load shedding.

Like a car, the day you want to go shopping and your car has been taken for servicing, you will not use that car because you have put it away for servicing. In the same vein, we are taking out this plant for rehabilitation so that at the end of the programme, this economy will improve.

Other than rehabilitating the machinery, the plant it also being upgraded so that there is more capacity to deliver energy for the Zambian people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: As regards to another point that was raised relating to the shortage of electricity in the economy, this has to do with what is currently obtaining in the market where the electricity tariffs are not commensurate with the rate of its production. Consequently, most investors are reluctant to invest in electricity which, if sold at the current rate, will not be able to give them a , return on their investment  despite the many sites in the country which can attract local and foreign investment. Therefore, ZESCO is talking to various stakeholders to see if they can agree to an upward adjustment of the rate of paying for electricity.

We are going to urge hon. Members of this House to sensitise the electorates and members of their constituencies so that they support this move because if this is not done, at the end of the day, we shall have no electricity to drive even the small activities in this economy.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon. Members in this august House who have so constructively, positively and abundantly contributed to this important Motion …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: … that touches on the economy of this country and lives of the people of Zambia. I do, therefore, trust and hope that this Government will seriously act on the concerns that the hon. Members have raised.

As your Committee who have presented their views in the report, we do not expect this document to be shelved, but to have the recommendations implemented.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Question put and agreed to.





The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker: The question is that the Bill be now read a second time.


Mr Speaker: Order! When I am speaking, it is an offence for you also to speak. I shall do it again.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there is a need to enact the Tourism and Hospitality Bill in order to provide an appropriate legal framework for the tourism policy and address the challenges of developing Zambian tourism and thus promoting the growth of the tourism sector. In addition, the Bill seeks to harmonise and streamline licensing procedures for investors in the tourism industry in order to reduce overlaps, bureaucracy and the cost of doing business.

Sir, there is also a need to deal with the lack of Zambian and local community participation and involvement in tourism and also to decentralise decision making in the sector. The decentralisation of functions will be done through the appointment of other tourism officers at the provincial level. Currently, the ministry has five offices at the Headquarters and four regional offices. It is envisaged that nine provincial offices will be opened.

Mr Speaker, the Bill provides for carrying out of tourism development through planning, management and co-ordination. The consultative planning process will bring about stakeholder participation, enhance ownership of the process and bring out opportunities for foreign, domestic and local investment. In addition, planning will promote an integrated and holistic approach to tourism development.

As regards tourism management, it is anticipated to provide for the collation and dissemination of accurate tourism information for decision making. In terms of co-ordination, the Bill provides for co-ordination of tourism activities for consensus building, ownership and shared vision.
Sir, the Bill introduces clear and specific regulatory framework for quality standards, safety and security in the tourism industry. Tourism is an intangible export commodity, therefore, the tourism product has to be of a superior quality or “value for money” in order to compete on the global market.

Mr Speaker, the Bill provides for the development and enforcement of standards. A grading system for hotels has been provided for this reason. By so doing, the Bill seeks to align the quality of the tourism product to the global United Nations World Tourism Organisation code of ethics. The Bill has also harmonised and streamlined the licensing procedures in order to reduce the time and cost of doing business. Therefore, only one licence will be given for all auxiliary tourism enterprises such as travel agencies, tour operators and car hire, while the hotel licence will be given separately because of its specific nature.

Sir, currently, the number of licences for non-accommodation enterprises depends on the number of categories one would like to engage in. For instance, if one runs a car hire service, a travel agency and a tour operation enterprise, three licences will be given. The Bill also introduces stiff penalties for offenders because tourism is about the lives of human beings.

Mr Speaker, the Bill provides for incentives in the industry in order to facilitate investment in the sector. The Bill introduces declaration of micro, small and medium-sized enterprises for targeted intervention, as it is well-known that most Zambian entrepreneurs are in the above categories.

Mr Speaker, the Bill establishes the Tourism Development Fund. This is a fund meant to provide for tourism research, product development, marketing, training and support to participating councils on tourism-related infrastructure. The rationale behind this provision is that the Government’s resource envelop is very small. As a result, the industry should contribute to the achievement of the above. This fund will be established through the introduction of the tourism levy to be collected by all industry players and the mechanism of collection will be worked out later with the stakeholders. This is an international practice and it is envisaged that tourism will increase to high levels and even pay for itself.

Mr Speaker, the Bill also establishes the Hotel Managers’ Registration Council. This is meant to promote professionalism and high quality standards in the hotel industry. It is common knowledge that employing unqualified staff affects the value of the service provided and so impacts negatively on the tourism industry. Further, the requirement for a manager to be suitably qualified will compel hotel managers to come up with appropriate human resource development plans and thus give opportunities to Zambians to take up management positions in hotels. A graded hotel which meets international standards will have no choice, but to engage qualified personnel. In this regard, the law will promote the development of career paths for workers in the hotel sub-sector, which is the largest employer in the tourism industry.

However, the Bill is flexible on the issue of hotel mangers’ qualifications and it allows for issuance of the hotel manager’s licence to persons who hold such other qualification in hotel management other than a degree or diploma as recommended by the Hotel Managers’ Registration Council to the Minister. This provision will assist micro, small and medium-sized tourism enterprises in which category most Zambians fall at the moment.

Mr Speaker, the tourism industry is dynamic and the Bill is meant to be a tool for addressing the developmental challenges of a liberalised economy. The Bill will impact positively on tourism development. The objectives of the Bill are positive and thus I urge this august House to support it fully.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to debate this very important and noble ministry. To begin with, I would like to inform the hon. Minister that whilst I support this Bill, it is very important to consider the rural people. When we talk of tourism, we are not talking of cities, but the rural based industry always. They reap so much from the rural people, and yet the wealth is concentrated in the cities.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: We, the rural people, need to enjoy our share like the people of Liuwa, Kanchibiya and Nabwalya. We also want to buy shoes, we also want to buy bicycles and we also want to buy simple wheelbarrows from our resources. We will never allow a situation where we see our resources taken away to the big cities, leaving the poor people of the rural areas poorer. I say so because all stakeholders, like in the land issue, must be involved. For example, in my constituency, we have a very hot issue of destroying weirs, I support that, but have you consulted the local people. Consulting chiefs only ending up at the palaces is not consulting the stakeholders.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Kanyanyamina: After all, chiefs have only one residential place and the majority are the people they lead. In my tribe we say ‘akamana ukupoma nipamawe’ meaning for a river to make noise there must be some stones and not a rock.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: The issue of consulting stakeholders, hon. Minister, is very cardinal because people will be able to know what is happening and they will be empowered, you do not even need to use money to destroy the weirs. Now, where you have to give each chiefdom K10 million to go and destroy the weirs is not good because that money could be used to buy medicines, school books, build infrastructure, mend potholes and help the energy industry to cut down the load shedding. We need that money to be well used. In this country, especially this Government, has the tendency to end up only at the chief’s palaces and finish the business there concluding they have already finished the business with the communities. This is a very sensitive matter, we could have lost lives in Kanchibiya Constituency last month, when a project sponsored by UNDP …

Mr Matongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Is a point of order?

Mr Matongo: I am sorry, Mr Speaker, to make an observation on a point of order. I thought before the debate started, we would have heard from the Chairperson of the Committee that looked at this Bill. I am not very sure, Sir.

Mr Speaker: You are right, but let him continue we will come back to the Chairperson.

Mr Kanchibiya: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I was citing an example of a UPND project that was well intended and would bring good money to the area, but we could have lost lives there.

Hon. Members: UNDP.

Mr Kanyanyamina: A UNDP project.


Mr Kanyanyamina: I beg to correct, UNDP sponsored projects, where these people had a very nice project proposal, very good ideas and bright ideas, but they overlooked an issue of trying to educate the people at grassroots level to sensitise the communities. They only ended up sensitising the chiefs involved in this area and there are about five chiefdoms involved. From there, they went on employing some people to go and destroy people’s weirs when they have lived their lives catching fish.

I sympathise with this Government for once, because at the moment, they have to bring food to the youth in the affected areas and here comes a person and says we are going to destroy weirs without even giving people an alternative or breathing space. What kind of disaster are we trying to agitate for?

Kindly, whilst I support this Bill, do consider the poorest of the poor of this nation because they are the majority and they are the ones who put you in power. They have time to vote because to them it is an activity.

Mr Speaker, the next issue I want to talk about is that of money for tourism. Like I said in my introduction, it should benefit all, especially the local communities who are the custodians of the animals of the wild life and any other related materials.

For example, people of Liuwa have been crying for respect, because human beings, the environment and wildlife have to be respected. This is so that you help and support human life. You are giving priority to animals and forgetting human beings. That is mortal sin. Today, you are lucky you are there because somebody defended your rights. An issue of human justice cannot be overlooked or else you can send that money which I would call satanic money because it is coming to inflict the human rights.

Sir, the next point I want to echo is the Community Resource Boards (CRB). This is a very brilliant idea. Now, who is benefiting from the CRBs? We have seen the rich people themselves following the money in villages. I do not want to mention names, but if you want, I can whisper to you some of those who are benefiting from this.

Mr Speaker, whilst I strongly support your Bill, you need to urgently sort out the CRBs because this is only enriching the few individuals in rural areas. It is creating gaps between the few minorities who are getting the money and the majority who are suffering. I will cite an example in my constituency, Kanchibiya, where we have the best wildlife, the only species in the whole world. This is the black lechwe. Tourists go there. I know that a lot of ministers go there to hunt. We have the cecybee and the shoebystock, which are very nice birds.

These people get the money, take it to Chilanga and send 5 per cent to the Chief. The other 15 per cent goes to the community. The community we are talking of is only the committee. Kindly send an investigatory Government wing to see what is happening at the grassroots level if you do not trust your own hon. Members of Parliament in this House. For once, learn to lend us your ears because some of the ministers have a tendency to overlook what we talk about in this House. Some are doing a very commendable job. We do not have to be jealous.

Sir, CRBs are a total mess. I support the idea, and I would like to suggest that you take the money to ZAWA so that they buy boots and equip the hard working officers who are, at the moment, struggling to execute their duties. Tell the NGOs and projects like UNDP …


Hon. Members: UPND!

Mr Kanyanyamina: UPND …


Mr Kanyanyamina: … projects like UNDP to channel this money through ZAWA because we already have an authority in the Government. What they need is resources to help them execute their duties. We are tired of seeing the poor ZAWA officers being gunned down by notorious poachers. We do not need money from donors to bring conflicts to our local people. People have suffered enough. When we stand in this House to speak, it is not out of prejudice, but we are a voice of the people. As Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya, I vow to talk for the poor people of my constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: That is the reason, like other hon. Members of Parliament said, you are in office not to show pomposity …


Hon. Members: Pomposity!

Mr Kanyanyamina: You are in office to execute duties. You are in office to sign cheques and send them to the local people in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to brief this august House on matters pertaining to the Tourism and Hospitality Bill No. 27 of 2007, which was referred to your Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism on 22nd August, 2007, for our scrutiny.

Sir, in considering the Tourism and Hospitality Bill, your Committee consulted various stakeholders that included organisations from the tourism industry and Government wings.

Mr Speaker, your Committee received an overwhelming response. I trust that the hon. Members will find the report useful as they deliberate on this Bill. Your Committee consulted widely in order to enrich the consultative process on this very important Bill. Your Committee invited various stakeholders to make both written and oral submissions before them.

Sir, may I take this opportunity to state that as a result of this interaction, your Committee managed to come up with pertinent observations on the proposed Bill which is on the Floor of the House today. From the outset, I wish to inform the House that most of the stakeholders with whom your Committee interacted were of the view that the proposed Bill was not only welcome, but also long overdue.

Mr Speaker, before I highlight the contents of the Report, let me state that your Committee was alive to the fact that the Bill that is before the House has a major bearing on Zambia’s economy development. The importance of the impact on the development of the tourism industry cannot be over-emphasised.

Sir, most witnesses who appeared before your Committee registered support for the Bill. In doing so, however, they brought a number of concerns to the attention of your Committee. The concerns are recorded in your Committee’s report for the consideration of the hon. Members of this House as they debate this Bill.

Mr Speaker, I will now take a look at the specific aspects of the Bill. One of the issues your Committee were confronted with is that of the International Central Reservation System which allows tourists to pay for packaged tours to Zambia and other tourist destinations from outside the country. Many stakeholders were of the view that this system is a great disadvantage to Zambia. This is mainly because the money that is collected through this system does not reach the country or circulate in the Zambian banks.

Sir, your Committee are pleased to note that under Clause 13, the Bill proposes that the hon. Minister shall, in consultation with stakeholders, develop a code of ethics in accordance with the United Nations World Tourism Organisation Code of Ethics. This is a welcome provision which will cause tourism standards to be in conformity with international norms.

Mr Speaker, your Committee would like to urge the House to consider the contents of their report as they proceed with the Bill.

Sir, in conclusion, your Committee wish to express their appreciation to the witnesses who made submissions before them.

Finally, I wish to commend hon. Members of your Committee and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the dedication to duty during the consideration of the Tourism and Hospitality Bill, No. 27, 2007.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the Bill has, indeed, been welcomed by your Committee because this is an initiative by the Government to put effect to the rhetoric about tourism being the mainstay of Zambia’s economy. It, therefore, ought to be welcomed. Nonetheless, there are some issues in this brochure which require further reflection because we are tired of laws that we pass which later prove to be containing aspects that counter the intentions of the law itself. In doing that, let me draw the attention of the House to specific issues in the Bill.

The first is the establishment of offices. This House has the powers to establish certain offices and those are offices that are not established by law by the Head of State. This House is always very clear on which law to use to establish a particular office. In this law, on page 10, section 3, part II, this House is attempting at re-establishing an already existing public office, namely; the office of the Director of Tourism. Some might suggest that this law is repealing Acts 153, 155 and 157 and that is the reason the office of Director of Tourism is being provided for in this law. To allow that argument, I would like to make mention that Act 153 is the Hotels Act, 155 is the Tourism Act and 157 is the Casino Act and none of these provides for the office of the Director of Tourism, meaning that the office of Director of Tourism has not been repealed by this law. The reason I say this is so that we are careful. We should not have an office that is established via two pieces of legislation. The office of Director of Tourism already exists under statute and we cannot, therefore, again re-establish that office through this Act because the law that is being repealed by this does not provide for the establishment of that office.

Sir, the second area which requires further thought is the area of functions of the director.

Mr Kunda: On a point of Order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, perhaps to help the House, is it in order for the hon. Member to say that there is law which creates the office of Director of Tourism and not mention that law? Is he in order to do that? It will help us in our debate if he mentions that law.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Learned Minister of Justice is asking the hon. Member for Kabwata to cite the laws he is referring to, especially the particular law which creates the office of Director of Tourism and the law that already has established that office.

May you continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the House would have benefited a lot and I would have personally appreciated had the learned hon. Minister of Justice answered my question when his time to debate comes. I am indicating here that there is an office called Director of Tourism in the ministry today, even before this law comes into effect. That office was established by law. Now, this law here repeals three Acts; 153, 155, and 157. These three Acts do not provide for the establishment of the office of Director of Tourism, meaning therefore, that there is another law which established that office.

Hon. Government Members: Which one!

Mr Lubinda: Now, in that case, this law should not make establishment of an office which is already established under another law unless the hon. Minister of Justice is capable of citing which law has been abandoned for this law to now give effect to the office of Director of Tourism, failure of which the hon. Minister is saying that the office of Director of Tourism is operating illegally,  because if the laws that are being repealed by this one do not establish that office, then how is it operating and where is it provided for in this law. I would like to put this challenge to the hon. Minister of Justice. May he please cite which law has been abolished for this law to come into effect.

Sir, let me move on, and I am willing to receive more points of order from the hon. Minister of Justice. I would like to raise another issue which has to do with the functions of the office of Director of Tourism. If you take a critical look at the functions of Director of Tourism, you will see that many of them are functions that cannot be monitored. They are vague. You do not establish an office and bestow upon it functions that you cannot check. You establish an office and give it specific functions. What do I mean by this? Firstly, I would like to refer the hon. Minister of Justice to section 7(c), I will start with section 7, and I quote:

“7. Subject to the other provisions of this Act, the functions of the Director shall be to 

(c) cause to diversify the tourism product portfolio to ensure the maximum exploitation of Zambia’s tourism potential;”

Now, refer that to the previous function, which is:

“(b) develop tourism plans and programmes to encourage the development of tourism industry in Zambia;”

Those who are following and reading this can see that (c) is very vague. Beyond that, I would like you to refer to (i), which says:

“(i) assist in carrying out any regional or national plan for the development and promotion of tourism;”

We are writing a law here and we are saying that the director shall assist. What do we mean by assist? In what form will the director assist? Is it by providing financial resources or by providing recommendations? What are we holding the Director of Tourism responsible for? We cannot just say assist, assist in doing what? We have to be specific on what we would like this office to do. We cannot write a law or job description which is not clear. I would like to encourage the hon. Members to look at all the other functions that are provided for the Director.

Sir, I also would like to draw your attention to, for example, (f):

“(f) in consultation with the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority 

(i) participate in the development of standards to be maintained by institutions that provide training programmes for persons employed or seeking employment in the touring industry; and

(ii) recommend the focus for training programmes for persons employed or seeking employment in the tourism industry;”

What are we really expecting the Director do when we say in consultation with Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA), they also recommend? Recommend to who because TEVETA is the one that is responsible for approving training programmes. Now, why are you saying they do it in consultation when actually you want the Director to recommend to TEVETA?

Mr Speaker, besides that, I would like to refer to a matter which the hon. Minister was referring to when he was presenting his Bill. He did mention that this law is aiming at decentralisation, but I am sure that the hon. Learned Minister of Justice has gone through this Bill and will also agree that it is aiming at decentralising power.


Mr Lubinda: I am not a learned counsel, but I would like to refer the hon. Learned Minister of Justice to Section 9 of this Law to show him that this law is going contrary to the intentions of the hon. Minister.

Section 9 is the establishment of the Tourism Enterprise Authorisation and Licensing Committee. It says:

“There is hereby constituted a Tourism Enterprise Authorisation Licensing Committee which shall consist eleven part-time members appointed by the hon. Minister. The members appointed are the ones that shall be persons who have expertise in Economic Empowerment, Financial Management, Hotel Management, Civil Engineering, Architecture and Physical Planning and shall include the representatives of the ministry responsible for tourism, immigration, finance, attorney-general and Tourism Council of Zambia”.

The functions of that committee are provided at No. 10. Section 10 says:

 “The functions of the committee shall be:

(a) to receive and approve applications for authorisation and licensing forwarded to the committee in terms of section 16(34) and (38). Receive and approve applications for renewals and transfers of licences granted under this Act and perform such other functions as maybe assigned.

What that means is that applications for licences will have to be approved by this committee. This committee shall not be decentralised or found in Lochinvar or Livingstone, but in Lusaka. How then would you say that this is going to be decentralised? The other issue of concern is the one that the hon. Minister is referring to, the provision in the law of a super plus committee which the hon. Minister will create at will.

You cannot have a law which gives so much discretion to the hon. Minister that the hon. Minister at will, will create sub-committees and committees to function instead of the Director. That is not good law. You cannot have a minister who forms all sorts of committees. You have the law and that law must specify who has the authority. If the intention of the hon. Minister is to decentralise, then at least, in this way, we should be saying how is it linked to an already decentralised chapter of the Government? How are local authorities involved in providing these licences? Why should we not be decentralising the licensing aspect for the councils because they are there? Why do you want to keep the power in the office of the minister at the ministry headquarters?

Mr Speaker, another concern that I have is that this law is the very first one unless the hon. Minister of Justice shows me the other one. This is the very first law which I see as at part 3, No. 12. It says:

“The Minister shall for the purpose of this Act and lists what are called ‘General Functions of the Minister”.

Mr Speaker, the functions in this Act are the functions of the Director because it says that the Director shall work under the supervision of the Minister. This Act is to be operationalised by the director, and yet in this same law we are saying that these functions are a preserve of the Minister. You cannot have a law written like that because of having said that everything in here is the job of the Director and he shall perform those functions under the authority of the hon. Minister. However you are coming up with functions again, which you are saying that these are not for the Director, but the hon. Minister. How can a law that establishes a junior office also provide the functions of the supervising office? If you look at those functions critically, you will see that this law is bound to create a lot of problems between the Director and the hon. Minister. I will give you an example. If you look at 12 (a), it says ‘Developed policies” and if you look at the Director’s functions, it also talks about developing plans and recommending policies. Why have a law like that?

Mr Speaker what I will propose is that the hon. Minister must look at that and harmonise these things so that it is clear that this law is going to be the functions of the Director so that there is no conflict between the Director and the Minister. When the Minister is appointed by the Head of State, they are appointed to be in-charge of the ministry. We form laws here to create jobs for the various directors not creating jobs and functions for Ministers.

Finally, the hon. Minister spoke about incentives and this is a matter a number of people have referred to. This law at Section 59 makes reference to incentives as are provided in the Zambia Privatisation Agency (ZDA) Act. I am sure that many hon. Members of Parliament know that people have been complaining about the incentives in the ZDA Act with regard particularly, to the empowerment of citizens because the incentives in the ZDA Act are not married with the incentives provided in the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act. All of us know that tourism is one sector where we should be encouraging as many Zambians as possible to participate. This is not like the mines where we need hundreds of millions, but a sector where many Zambians could participate, and yet the law is just making reference to incentives in the ZDA Act. It is not making reference at all to the provisions of the very important Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Act.

Mr Speaker, I would like to propose that before this Bill comes for Third Reading, the hon. Minister moves an amendment to ensure that there is a linkage between these incentives in the tourism sector to those provisions of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Act so that we see these foreign investors also being forced to allow Zambians to participate in running their lodges. You cannot have a situation where the whole of the Zambezi River front is taken up by foreigners and they are not forced at all in any way to include the Zambians on their votes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: It is this House that is supposed to come up with laws that protect Zambians. We should not come up with laws because we want to satisfy certain individuals, no. Let us come up with laws that will satisfy the vast majority of the people.

Mr Speaker, I have raised these issues and there are many more that I wish to raise, but I will be discussing with the hon. Minister of Justice so that together, we can work on harmonising this law. All of us want to support it, but will only support it to the extent that it makes it possible for the Government to be held accountable for failing to deliver what is provided for. If you come up with vague laws like this, you will run away from your responsibility and we do not want that. I hope that the hon. Minister will be amenable to discussing these amendments so that we move together and not turn round and say because Lubinda debated and was defeated, therefore, he is part of the law. No, that is not good law.

Hon. Government Members: You are!

Mr Lubinda: There is nothing like collective responsibility in Parliament, takwaba. It is outside.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, Sc.): Mr Speaker, I wish to sincerely thank the Committee for making very positive recommendations in their report. As stated by the Committee, there was wide consultation on this Bill and the stakeholders supported the Bill.

 The Committee has made certain proposals for amendment which will be considered. We are going to move amendments. The Committee Report is very constructive and this has helped the process of legislating.

Regarding what Hon. Lubinda has said about the position of Director, I want to tell him if he is not aware, that in the Government, there are a lot of Directors dotted all over the Government. These come under the establishment which is approved within the Government circles. It may be approved administratively or by Cabinet and we are changing nomenclature from time to time. We are still creating posts, but certain positions are created by statute. You were saying that there must be a law which creates the position of Director of Tourism. I challenged you to mention that law, but you lamentably failed.


Mr Kunda: The position on Director of Tourism is that we are creating it by statute. It may have been created administratively, but we want to cloth it with statutory authority. In fact members of the Opposition have been urging us to come up with legislation on certain aspects of governance and this is what we are doing. There is nothing irregular about this.

As for the functions of Minister, the President has specified, under the Statutory Functions Act, what type of subjects each Minister can deal with. It is normal to find the hon. Minister of Finance with a number of subjects which he has to deal with and even his junior officers deal with the same subjects. There is, therefore, no conflict in us stating which subjects the hon. Minister of Tourism will deal with as part of his functions. If you have any constructive suggestions, and I must say constructive suggestions for amendments for us to consider, we are amenable. We can discuss with you. However, misconceived suggestions will not be entertained.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to say a few words to wind up the debate on the Tourism and Hospitality Bill of 2007. Before I proceed, I would like to say that Hon. Lubinda should have appeared before your Committee to give his views rather than bring them here.

Mr Kambwili: Ah! Why not?

Mr Kaingu: I wish to thank the Chairman of the Committee for the good work done, particularly with the wide consultations undertaken with the major stakeholders in the tourism sector. The diversity of stakeholders shows that the task may not have been an easy one. Going by the debate, I have no doubt in my mind that the Committee consulted widely.

I am pleased to note that the stakeholders are, by and large, in agreement with the Government’s intentions.

Mr Speaker, I am confident that once this Bill is passed, the benefits that will be generated will include the introduction of a grading and classification system for hotels every two years to ensure reasonable standards of cleanliness and sanitation are maintained, the provision of incentives for investors in the tourism industry and the establishment and administration of the Tourism Development fund.

Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that the introduction of innovative provisions in the Bill such as establishment of the Tourism Development Fund and a provision of incentives for investors will provide the sector with the much needed resources to improve investment in it.

In conclusion, I wish to express my gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for appointing a competent Committee. In addition, I wish to pay tribute to all the stakeholders who tendered in both oral and written submissions. I also wish to thank all hon. Members who have debated the Bill positively and even those who sat quietly, giving me support and pledging to take into account all the amendments and consider some concerns which were expressed by your hon. Members during the debate.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Committee on Tuesday, 6th November, 2007.{mospagebreak}



The Minister of Environment, Tourism and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, there is a need to enact the Zambia Tourism Board Bill so as to address the issues of Zambia an unknown tourist destination due to poor marketing. Under Section 3, the Bill seeks to establish an Agency of the Government that focuses on marketing of tourism domestically and internationally in line with the Tourism Policy.

Mr Speaker, currently the Zambia National Tourist Board performs the dual functions of marketing and some aspects of tourism development which situation to some extent overlaps with the functions performed by the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources.

Due to the importance we have placed on the marketing of the Zambian tourism, the Bill establishes a dedicated Agency of the Government that will deal …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1705 hours to 1715 hours.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that the Bill provides for improved and aggressive marketing of Zambia as a preferred tourist destination both locally and internationally. With regard to globalisation, there is a need to embark on innovative, effective and focused marketing strategies that will ensure increased tourist inflows. This can only be done by a dedicated marketing institution. Most successful tourism destinations such as Kenya, Cameroon and Nigeria have focused marketing institutions. This trend is also obtaining in neighbouring Southern African Development Community (SADC) counties such as South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia and Botswana.

It is envisaged that the new institution will also enshrine the principles of private sector involvement and participation in tourism marketing as the major beneficiaries in tourism.

Mr Speaker, the Bill will impact positively on tourism development, as it provides for focused marketing of Zambia as a tourism destination.

Sir, the objectives of the Bill are positive and thus I urge this august House to support it whole heartedly.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Quality!

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely, again, for according me this opportunity to brief this august House on matters pertaining to the Zambia Tourist Board Bill, National Assembly Bill, No. 28, which was referred to your Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism on 22nd August, 2007 for scrutiny.

Sir, in considering the Zambia Tourist Board Bill, your Committee consulted various stakeholders that included organisations from the tourism industry and the Government wings. Your Committee received an overwhelming response. I trust that the hon. Members will find the Report useful as they deliberate the Bill.

Mr Speaker, your Committee invited various stakeholders to make both written and oral submissions before them.

Sir, most witnesses who appeared before your Committee registered support for the Bill. In doing so, however, they brought out a number of concerns to the attention of your Committee. The concerns are recorded in your Committee’s Report for the consideration of the hon. Members of this House as they debate this Bill.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Tourism Board Bill seeks to focus on the marketing and mandate as a separate and critical function aimed at bringing an increased volume of visitors to Zambia for the growth of the tourism sector. Stakeholders in the hospitality and tourism industry have seen the need to setup a Zambia Tourism Board that will improve the image of Zambia as a tourism destination of choice and enhance the marketing of tourism attraction at home and abroad.

Sir, one of the issues your Committee were confronted with is that of conditions of service for employees of the current Zambia National Tourism Board. Stakeholders submitted that there is a need for this issue to be handled properly so that employees who will not be taken on by the new board are paid what is due to them and not left out in the cold. Further, those employees who will be taken on by the new board should not be disadvantaged in any way.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee wish to express their appreciation to the witnesses who made submissions before them.

Finally, I wish to commend Members of your Committee and the Clerk’s Office for their dedication to duty during the consideration of the Zambia Tourism Bill, National Assembly Bill, No. 28 of 2007.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Bill on the Floor of the House, and I will be very brief.

Sir, I am surprised that we are putting up legislation to put up structures that will effectively market tourisms after forty-three years of independence. I heard the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources mention very young countries that are very advanced in tourism. I am really surprised.

Mr Speaker, for tourism to flourish in any country, there are three main aspects that have to be considered. Firstly, there must be attractions. Secondly, there must be effective promotion and marketing and thirdly, there must be easy means to reach the destinations.

However, in this country, there is only one thing and that is attraction. There is poor promotion because of such poor structures and transport. This country has enough educated people. We have enough manpower, but we are just good at talking and theorising. It is time we stopped theorising and became practical.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: We go for seminars abroad and talk very nicely and people are impressed, but when they come here they are surprised to see the country where the good speakers come from.


Mr Hamududu: Let us walk the talk.

Mr Speaker, we need to promote local tourism. The idea of the leaders who created the Lochinvar National Park and Blue Lagoon National Park was to promote local tourism because these national parks where near. At the weekends, people could go there and relax. Zambians are not serious, no wonder we do not make progress. We must go to these places, especially during weekends so that we relax and probably think properly. You will find that these facilities where we are supposed to go to are the worst in the country. You cannot even go to the Lochinvar National Park because there is no accommodation. All you have done is allow the germination of a foreign plant Mimosa Pigra.


Mr Hamududu: As far as I am concerned, that is the only development you have brought to the Lochinvar National Park. This plant has also spread to the Blue Lagoon National Park. I also want to state that the so-called increase in the number of tourists in this country is just a mere coincidence. This is a regional infection. When tourism is coughing in the neighbouring countries, we also catch a flue a little bit.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, it has nothing to do with us doing our homework. We simply have tourists extending their itineraries. It has nothing to do with our effecting promotion. There is nothing like that, besides there are no good roads in this country.

Sir, three years ago, we had a Visit Zambia Campaign which was a shame. That time I was in Namibia and on my way back, I travelled with some tourists. I was so excited to come with them to Zambia. We came by coach so that we could view the sites properly. When we arrived in Livingstone, the town looked like there had just been a war.


Mr Hamududu: It had dirty buildings and surroundings. We should have done our homework before we introduced that programme. Actually, what we have done is not market this country. We showed the tourists that we are a dirty and disorganised country. Some of the tourists who saw that mess have spread the message to others not come to Zambia.

Sir, when dealing with such issues, we must prepare ourselves properly before we expose ourselves to the outside world.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: The Visit Zambia Campaign was a shame. Next time, we must do our homework. The infrastructure around, including hotels should be worked on because these are critical issues. Before we launch such a campaign, let us not disgrace our country that God has endowed with powerful attractions. I do not really know what we want because God has given us everything. This is a very beautiful country with beautiful attractions, but why are we failing? Other countries like Botswana and Namibia are bare arid countries that built towns in the sands of Swakopmund and Walvis Bay. Their towns are flourishing right in the sand dunes and are greener that some of our towns in this country. Imagine, we are forty-four years of independence. Why do we even call our children on Independence Day to celebrate?

Mr Speaker, it is time we put our ideas in order. I want to encourage our friends in the Government that through this legislation, we should make an impact. Let us not be swallowed by globalisation. This time around, if you remain behind, you will be there forever. Countries are moving forward. This country should double its efforts, otherwise it will be an embarrassing sight forever.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, I am going to be very brief because I will only touch two issues.

Sir, as we talk about tourism, I wonder whether we are really serious about it. Those on your right, the majority of them have had a chance of going abroad and visited certain areas in the countries they go to. Some of the places are not even worth talking about because you cannot compare them with what we have in Zambia. What have we done as a country to ensure that people are attracted to Zambia despite so many attractions?

Sir, we all know Livingstone, but there are places out there that can be better than the Victoria Falls. Those who have been to Mporokoso will agree with me. What are we doing about the Lumango Falls and Kabueluma Falls in Mporokoso?  What about the Chishimba Falls in Kasama, the Kalambo Falls and the Nkundalila Falls in the Central Province? If you go to such places, you will wonder whether there is something called Tourism Board in the country because there is nothing to talk about. You will just find a toilet, and yet we can make money out of those sites. What is worrying is that when you go to one of these places like the Chishimba Falls, you are only charged K2,600. That is a joke. No matter how many people go to the Chishimba Falls, how much money can you realise from this?

Mr Kambwili: Ba mudala ba Shikapwasha, baleipusha ati shinga!

Mr Munaile: That is a question I wanted to pose. You need to charge fees that are reasonable. That is the only way we are going to move forward. We need to do more. People who do not even live in this country are making money out of our own natural resources. We need to empower our people so that they can be able to go into this industry and make money. Gambia is sustained by its tourism industry because it is well marketed.

Mr Speaker, we need to do more and ensure that money is pumped into the industry. Therefore, we should charge fees that are economical.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the creation of the Tourism Board is not something new. We had the National Tourist Board and the Zambia National Tourist Board. At one time, we had representatives in every country. You will remember that we had people allocated all over the country, ‘Zambia in the Sun.’ It was all well for Zambia. I think the problem we have is that we tend to always think that when you have a problem, you should create something new. Now we have created what we call Tourism Board. This is different from what was there. You just removed the word ‘National’. You just do not want to call it a national board. Have we found out what the problems that made the Zambia National Tourist Board not effective were?

Mr Speaker, one of them is under funding. At one time, in this House, we had known that we needed to support the programme for Zambia to be known to the outside world. We had agreed we would give the Zambia National Tourist Board K5 billion, but we only gave them K1 billion. We also expected these people to export and market Zambia. Is this a guarantee that with a new name now, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, you are going to fund them properly? I have seen that the composition of the members of the board includes one of your officers. One is from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the other one is from the Ministry of Justice. Is this an assurance that now we are going to fund the board properly? The people in the Zambia National Tourist Board have tried hard to market it. One of the major requirements for proper marketing of tourism is the national carrier, the air line.

Someone within our Government recommended that Zambia Airways be liquidated. We can debate whether it was worth being closed, but, those that had the powers found it necessary to close it. We are now busy debating on the national carrier and you are not coming up with a proper decision on that one. What are you creating the National Tourism Board for? You are not backing it up with a national carrier, and you know why.

We have tried with Aero Zambia or whatever you called it and someone was not favourable and he went away. You came up with what you call Zambian Airways, which was initiated by the Government and later went to individuals. You have let go of Zambian Airways. It is sickening to look at what you have done with Zambian Airways, which you started as a Government. What you have done now …

Hon. Member: It started as Roan Air.

Mr Muntanga: … should make you feel ashamed. Sometimes I look at the people in this House and I wonder whether they have Zambia at heart.

Hon Members: They are foreigners.

Mr Muntanga: You cannot call Zambian Airways a national carrier because you have not recognised it as such. There is no way this created body can market Zambia if you do not put in place supportive instruments.

Mr Speaker, I know that you have put someone responsible for ZAWA to exist. What has ZAWA done in the maintenance of roads in the parks? There is a problem because the National Roads Board says the roads in the national parks will be handled by ZAWA and someone else will be in charge. However, the roads in the parks are not potholed, but are …

Hon. Member: Wells

Mr Muntanga: … craters in some places. We cannot market Zambia if we cannot put in place the ecological conditions required. The Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources is in charge. The Victoria Falls Park is dry and the animals are starving because they cannot even graze there. Hon. Minister that is cruelty to animals. We have the Zambezi River next door and all you need to do is put a few pipelines that can pump water across. Simply put one booster pump that requires a gun sprayer and you will be able to get water across. You can get these from Saro Agro Limited, and that place will be green.

Hon. Member: Saro Agro Limited is next to Soweto.

Mr Muntanga: We are all talking about this Tourism Board. What else have we done? All I appeal for is that if this law we are now agreeing on, hoping it is going to inject some blood into you, will give you adrenaline to work so that we are able …

Hon. Member: Maybe you have HIV.

Mr Muntanga: … yes maybe you have HIV, stock it up. We need you to put up the backing of this particular regulation that you are putting in place. We cannot only talk in isolation of proper roads in tourist attractions because there is no other infrastructure.

The other thing that is worrying me is that we have created the Tourist and Hotels Law. We are talking about having one licence, hon. Minister. You understand it because you own Kozo Lodge. Before you have Kozo, you have to run around for ten different licences and hope you are going to merge them into one.  The other one that you have created now, the National Tourist Board must survive. You cannot take them away from where they were responsible and raising money.  Those small safari lodges doted all over the country which were controlled by the Zambia National Tourist Board, now have been moved to the Tourist and Hotels Board. What will the old organisation remain with? They will start fighting.

Someone will create a certain rule so that you pay the Zambia National Tourist Board some money because they have to raise money. The other one will also demand money because the other has been given; that is double. The bottom line is not so much the creation of boards, but the question of realising that all the supportive structures within the Government are made to operate. A while ago, when we approved the other one, we were told the hon. Minister is the advisor to the Director. However, when you go the environment, the Director of Environment advises the hon. Minister not to put something on the other end and he will advise him to put it there.


Mr Muntanga: The professional person advises against putting these silos in Cairo Road, someone in the Government, and we know who went to State House, said put silos.

Hon. Member: Shame!

Mr Muntanga: There is a Railways Act which stops you from building something twenty-five metres from the railway line. One of you in the Government approved to put a road three metres from the railway line. You know that when you cross the railway line, you should not cross at an angle less than seventy degrees, and yet you put and allowed crossing that railway line at an angle less than forty-five degrees. Not until the train and the lorries crush, will you wake up. Why do you break your own laws? You were asking us to put these laws in place and we did, but my worry is that we are not doing enough to support the same laws.

Hon. Member: For expediency.

Mr Muntanga: As you urge us to support this Bill, I am wondering if that is a vote of no confidence in the operations of members of the Zambia National Tourist Board who are the managing directors and executive officers. Are they likely to be re-employed by the new organisation, because now we will look for our relatives to be Managing Director there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: The ones who are there will be told that they were not doing a good job. The good job will not be done by creating a new organisation, but by supporting other infrastructure such as roads. There are two contradictions- I have to ask the Government to explain- we had a steam locomotive and someone promised to move that to some other place.

Your Honour the Vice- President go and check, that locomotive was cut to pieces. Why? These are attractions and somewhere in the world, someone will wonder why you should allow such an important item should be cut to pieces. People come to look at what a locomotive looks like. People will come and see that Zambia had steam locomotives. However, on one hand we destroy and on the other you are asking us to create some boards to market Zambia, to go and market locomotive as scrap.

My appeal to the Government is that for us to market Zambia, we need to do what is supposed be done in totality. Tourism will function and can bring the money we require. I am very happy that now when you have put the other law on tourism and hotels, these companies you are giving concessions not to pay workers the service charges will now know that it is law and will desist from breaking the law. Therefore, I welcome the National Tourist Board Bill, but I urge the Government introduce a national carrier and we need to have all these things put in place.

We had tourism offices in the Foreign Service, but how many have we now opened? We had closed the London office and we had closed the Germany office.

The Vice-President: It is there.

Mr Muntanga: Now you are saying it is there. How much support are you giving, because you have no national carrier? That is why when you were at South African Airways, President Mwanawasa was addressed wrongly. The Government can find out about that.


Mr Muntanga: He was referred to as Minister of Tourism, Environment and National Resources.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in other countries, tourism is a serious issue. When you talk about supporting an organisation such as this one you are creating today, we need to fund it adequately. The people who are willing to serve Zambia should be well supported. Your Honour the President, this is what concerns us.

We want to live a real life such as when you want go to Mfuwe, for instance, the landing place should be safely done. We do not want to hear excuses that certain things went wrong in 1991, when other people, whoever they are, came into power and made things worse.


Hon. Opposition Members: MMD!

Mr Muntanga: Yes! I know that there was the MMD.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, to be honest, the party that came into power in 1991 was the MMD. Therefore, whether there are variations or not, what we want is to put things in order as we move towards putting the Zambian National Tourist Board in place.

Hon. Minister, you should look at what you have asked for. You have mentioned the private sector, but look at the composition of the ten board members, you would find that the Ministry has four, ZAWA has five and there is another organisation. Therefore, the actual private sector you are talking about is about three or four members. Again, there is more work for the Government.

Sir, we are not saying that we do not want the Government, but the Permanent Secretaries you are putting on these boards, other than allowances they get, do not have time. Next time, you should not put a Permanent Secretary on the board. There are a lot of junior officers who have time to be on the board and participate effectively. We had a similar problem in Mazabuka when someone on the Community Development Committee (CDC) was not concerned with the activities of CDC, but was swindling CDC, and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning did not know about this.

Therefore, in support of this Bill, I would like to urge the Government to put in place all supportive organisations and structures and give them adequate funding.

Sir, actually, I am very happy that you are doing the right thing.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, may I thank Hon. Muntanga for his contributions although he was fishing here and there.


Hon. Opposition Members: Kozo! Kozo!

Mr Kaingu: Sir, I also want to remind him that it is true, indeed, that His Excellency the President is the Minister of Tourism, Environment and National Resources. I am doing the job on his behalf.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank your able Committee for the job well done. I am also overwhelmed by the support from all hon. Members of Parliament. Therefore, I would not like to bore them with a long speech.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 6th November, 2007.




(Debate Resumed)

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, at the point of adjournment yesterday evening, I was speaking on the basis of the strength that the Zambian people, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry could use in order to ensure that the European Union does not pressurise us into signing economic partnership agreements when we are not ready.

Mr Speaker, this position is of thirty-eight other members of the African Caribbean pacific-European Union (ACPEU) known as the least developed countries. As if it was by fate, the majority of these countries are commonly known as Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC).

Mr Speaker, I believe that the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry should be assisted by this Parliament to send a very clear message to ambassadors of the big trading partners that we are not ready. It is not by design that we are not ready to sign the economic partnership agreements, but we have certain areas of concern that we must be helped be addressed so that when we go for competition, we go there on a relatively competitive advantage.

At the moment, the African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States (ACP) and the European countries are at different levels of development. They are totally different and this must be addressed.

Sir, I was on the point of talking with the various groups and of ninety. I am of the view that the position of the hon. Minister preparing for these final negotiations should be to seek for a waver, and I think it is personal. It is personal because I am aware that the majority seventy-six European cities in the ACP would probably help us if we represent our case as a united force in terms of regional considerations and governments.

Hon. Minister, I am aware that your technical staff and your negotiators will be in Djibouti in a few days time. I am equally aware because this information is on the Internet. It is a question of whether you like reading and reading is not a luxury, you will get it there.


Mr Matongo: Hon. Minister, I am aware that you will be in Brussels soon with your colleagues on the same subject.  I am also aware that at the ACPEU, we have a very competent representative, Dr Njobvu. I am also aware that there will be a meeting in Kigali, Rwanda very soon. In fact, it will be held this month. I am equally aware that we have an advantage that the African Europe Summit will be meeting in the first week of December in Lisbon, Portugal. Actually, our Head of State will be leading the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Delegation whose position I am articulating here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Therefore, we are in a position of influence through these channels to actually not beg, but force the European Union with the logic that we are not simply ready.

I, therefore, recommend to this House that with the things that I have stated, the hon. Minister will be empowered to go with strength; with his head up, with the support of the Zambians and the civil society organisations.

Mr Speaker, we should not take comfort in everything, but the arms deal. It is not a negotiated deal that was offered to us, therefore it can be withdrawn anytime. Yes, I agree, it is reciprocal, duty free, quarter free, but the problem is in reciprocity because we do not have the capacity for that. It is in that area where we need money to come from the European Union for us to be competitive in the World Trade Organisation (WTO).

I want to state here that we should understand that when we are given this support, it will be withdrawn. It is being given to us for them to force us into signing these things at either State level or regional level, come 2008. It is not a panacea for the LDCs. In fact it is a problem that calls poverty to our people.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to tell us, today, who will handle the cost of adjustments for our industries to be competitive? Where will the investments come from? Yes, there are very good incentives for being competitive in WTO, but not those incentives whereby we will lose revenue. Where will those revenues gaps come from? We need money for development. Why is the 9th European Development Fund  (EDF) not being processed? We are told that four European countries have not passed the treaties to allow this money to come. Surely, we can argue. If ACP countries are not ready to sign and only four of their countries cannot release the 10th EDF. We need more than 200 million Euros in order to be competitive to address the constraints in the areas of development.

What co-efficient are we going to use, Hon. Minister, to determine the tariffs for agriculture, for instance, where our strength is. It is any figure between 5 to 50 per cent. The Europeans and Americans are looking for bigger figures. All these things need to be addressed.

Mr Speaker, we addressed these issues as Africans and other people in Seattle, Washington; in Cancun, Mexico; in Hong Kong, China; in Dour, Geneva and elsewhere. For instance, as a group of ninety, we were able to take the services, procurement, the regeneration and the Singapore issues out of the agenda. What makes us not believe we shall win again?

Hon. Minister, it is in your interest to carry on board the Parliamentarians, civil society, Cabinet and this Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, firstly, I want to thank the Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour for a well-presented report. I also want to thank those who debated this particular Motion. The issues raised during the debate can be clustered in two components as follows:

(a)  competitiveness; and

(b)  the economic partnership agreement even though there was a pedestrian reference to agriculture.


Our basic approach with regard to competitiveness is anchored on three pillars. The first pillar for competitiveness is the economic management which must be done in such a way that we continue to have a stable macro-economic environment that all the macro-economic valuables continue to go in the right direction. That is important for competitiveness.

Only this month on 1st of October, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning continued to fertilise macro economic activities by reducing the reserve ratio from 14 per cent to 8 per cent. The effect of this was that liquidity in the economy was increased by K487 billion. Meaning that we will have much more resource for the business people to access and we expect, by the end of the year, that the cost of money will fundamentally come down because of excess liquidity. So, the pillar of economic management is critical in enhancing competitiveness.

The second pillar, Mr Speaker, is one of the legal and policy frameworks that support competitiveness. Passing relevant legislation such as the Zambia Development Act (ZDA) and the one we are debating today, the Tourism Act, these are key to supporting competitiveness.

Some people said the incentive provided under the ZDA Act discriminates between local and foreign investors, indeed, that they are meant for foreign investors. This Act was passed by this Parliament. This Parliament did not make the mistake to implant discrimination in the Act. It does not recognise whether you are foreign or local. It only recognises the level of investment. So, there is absolutely no discrimination.

The third pillar, Sir, is business facilitation. Business facilitation is split into two. Addressing business processes that are going to support the private sector for them to be competitive and what we are doing in this area is trying to reduce some breakdown bureaucratic processes in the Government.

For example, three days ago, we launched a second office of the Patents and Companies Registration Office (PACRO). What used to take over two weeks to register a company can now only take two hours. That is key. With the first office that we have established in Lusaka, at the beginning of this year, …

Hon. Member: It took me one week!

Mr Mutati: You went to a wrong place.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, when you look at the statistics, last year under the manual system we only register 1,500 companies. This year, so far, we have had 3,700 registered companies and businesses. With the opening of the Ndola office, we are going to have a lot more companies being registered. When you register more companies then you transform informal business into formal business.

When you get to formal business, you increase the revenue base and when you increase the revenue base, you create capacity like what Hon. Muntanga was referring to, that is to try and make the Zambia National Tourist Board (ZNTB) more capacitated so that they can attract that foreign tourist to stay even longer. So, the cycle goes on.

Hon. Opposition Members: Goes.

Mr Mutati: That is what we call …


Mr Mutati: … competitiveness. We are also enhancing competitiveness in business facilitation, but the improvements that we have made in the payment system is that it took twenty-one days to clear a cheque, now is value on presentation. That is important. We have created a credit reference bureau so that we minimise delinquency from borrowing from bank 1, bank 2 and bank 3. That reduces the cost of money. We are also, at the end of this year, going to establish, for the first time, in Africa, a one border post at Chirundu. So, clearance will only be done once so that instead of taking ten days to clear your goods, it will take you one day. For us, that is enhancing competitiveness, reducing the cost of business is just one component. Efficiency is much more fundamental in creating the competitive environment that you need. That is what is important. Beyond business facilitation, obviously, you will have the challenges of infrastructure which we were attending to.

Mr Speaker, the output of this competitiveness can be demonstrated very clearly. The first output of compositeness, as the Germany Government said, we are the third most competitive country in Africa out of fifty-four …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: … and this is from outside not from inside. The first sign or outcome of competitiveness is the levels of investment that we are able to attract into the economy. In the various sectors, we have performed significantly well. We are the second in Southern African in terms of attracting investment. We are only second to South Africa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: This means we are competitive. In the mining sector, there are various investments, including a K1 billion investment in KCM by a company on the London Stock Exchange, a $750 million investment in Lumwana by a company listed in Toronto and Sydney, a $5million investment in Kansanshi listed in Canada and Toronto and another $500 million investment in Mopani.


Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the key is firstly, you have to attract the investment in order to create the potential for you to be able to create jobs. The total investment in the mining sector only that we have been able to track the last three years is K4.1 billion.


Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, we are not only dealing with the mining industry, we are also moving to other industries. We have been able to attract $180 million for the expansion of Zambia Sugar that will create over 16,000 out grower schemes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: That is the benefit of competitiveness. We are expanding Chilanga Cement through an investment of $150 million to reduce the price of cement, because you can only address the supply side in order to have a reduction in price.

Mr Speaker, today, agriculture is the biggest borrower in the domestic market. 23 per cent of the domestic credit is going into agriculture, meaning that, obviously, something is basically happening in agriculture. The results of this, is that, we have moved from a food deficient country to a food surplus. This means that we are doing the correct things.


Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, three days ago, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) opened a goods shed in Kasempa and they announced on that occasion that they had been able to buy maize in Kasempa where Hon. Pande comes from. They delivered K3 billion in such a small district. It means that the people of Kasempa were hit very hard by GDP …


Mr Mutati: … and that is what we call creating the correct environment. So, we must be doing the correct things because we are delivering to the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, beyond investment, the second output of competitiveness is job creation and wealth creation. As a consequence of these levels of investment, we have been able to attract and create over 60,000 direct jobs, which is a key.

Thirdly, Mr Speaker, the output of competitiveness is enhancing the ability of our own people to access credit. What are we doing? We have just concluded with a European Investment Bank, a credit facility for the small and medium-scale entrepreneurs which will be accessed on 27th November, 2007. So, for the small and medium-scale entrepreneurs, there is money available for access. We have not stopped there, the hon. Minister Finance and National Planning, a couple of weeks ago, launched a $15 million International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) facility for rural development and these are key to enhancing competitiveness. We are also concluding a $15 million facility to capacitate the Zambian suppliers in the mines so that they can supply quality goods. These are local suppliers.

Mr Speaker, to divert a little, three days ago, we launched something which was called Amaka Yawingi. Amaka Yawingi was launched at Pamodzi and it is a simple motto. Those of our colleagues, who are residents in the UK, came together and put resources in one basket. They have been able to raise £432,000 equivalent to K3.6 billion and they have come to Zambia for the unanimous Amaka Yawingi to borrow in order to invest in Zambia.


Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, membership is open, provided one puts something in the basket.

The second cluster has been referred to as the EPAs. For the EPAs our direction is very clear. There are four key points on the EPAs. The first one is that our focus is the substance and content of the EPAs rather than compliance to the deadline.

The second point is that, we are at variance with the EU who wants to put trading goods first before development assistance. If they put trading goods first, they are basically telling us that they have to be reprosist, meaning that, we open up our markets and they open up their markets. We are saying we are not equal partners in this particular area. You cannot compete on an equal basis. We need a period of adjustment and we need additional resource in order to adjust. We are saying the adjustment period must be about twenty-five years, but they are saying it is too long. These are the issues that we are going to do.

Mr Speaker, the third one is the whole issue of configuration. Zambia has been put in a configuration called the East and Southern African (ESA) group. Within this configuration, we have many challenges. Within the configurations, we have the Least Developed Countries (LDC) and developing countries. Therefore, it is becoming difficult to have a common agenda. Because of the developing countries, it is in their interest to sign the Economic Partnership Agreements (EPA). For the LDCs, it is not in their interest to sign the EPAs. Therefore, it is a situation that when you toss a coin, one wins and the other one loses. So, it is either they win or we lose or vice versa. This coin will not drop on the age.

Sir, within the grouping, we are also not able to agree on issues of rules of origin on sensitive lists because we are all at different levels of development. We have also told the Europeans that African regional groupings are based on political and economic commonalities. However, now they have broken us up and mixed us with the admissible.

Mr Kambwili: Ulimwaume iwe!

Mr Mutati: Therefore, we are in a basket where we cannot even talk together because we are from different cultural dispositions. We are asking why the Europeans ignored the established regional groupings for the purpose of negotiating the EPAs. We want to go back to what we are familiar with, a familiar territory.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, we will put it on the table.

Sir, with regard to the fourth issue that we have been confronted with, we have been in partnership with the European Union and we appreciate that they are an important market. We appreciate that we need them in order to survive.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: However, what we do not need is to be bullied.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: We do not need to be put in a situation where we sign a document and agreement that works against the sustainable development that we have achieved so far. It reverses the progress that we have made so far. Agriculture and industry collapses for the purpose of appeasement because we know that we have a common objective with the European Union. They want to trade and we also want to trade. When we trade and they trade, both must benefit.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: What must be good for them must be good for us.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, we shall be meeting in Brussels in about ten days time. Our colleagues in ESA are asking whether Zambia can consider leading the arguments for ESA. We said if it was for the purpose of representing the ESA Group or Africa, we shall stand to the challenge.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Ukateka iwe!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, with that, I would like to say that we have a marriage with the European Union. This marriage must not be wrecked because of pressure. This marriage must not be wrecked because of temporary differences. There is more to gain, and going forward together, particularly so that they have signed the Millennium Development Goals. The EPAs must be in line with the Millennium Development Goals. Anything that counters that is a contradiction.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: It is World Trade Organisation (WTO) or not.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, on behalf of your Committee, may I thank all those hon. Members of Parliament who debated your Committee’s Report. In so doing, let me also commend the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for taking time to explain all these issues that were raised both in the Report and also, through debate.

Sir, I will be failing your Committee if I do not take this opportunity to also congratulate Zambia and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for being elected Chair of the ESA Configuration in the EPAs.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I would like to end by saying that of all the issues that the hon. Minister addressed, it would have been very kind of him to also touch on the very thorny issue which was raised in your Committee’s Report and on the Floor of the House, namely; the discussions around the Royalty Tax on the mines.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice-President (Mr Rupiah Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do not now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1938 hours until 0900 hour on Friday, 2nd November, 2007.