DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 29th January, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President who is attending to other national duties, Hon. G. W. Mpombo, MP, Minister of Defence, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 29th January to Friday, 1st February, 2008.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PENSION FOR MOPANI COPPER MINES PLC PENSIONERS

70. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) when Mopani Copper Mines Plc (MCM) would remit pensioners’ contributions to the Mukuba Pension Scheme;

(b) when Mukuba Pension Scheme would pay MCM pensioners their pensions; and

(c) who would pay the interest on the pensions when finally paid out.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Mineral Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that Mopani Copper Mines Plc has an outstanding financial obligation of about K7.9 billion to the Mukuba Pension Scheme arising from an actuarial funding deficit covering the five-year period from March, 2000 to September, 2005.

Mr Speaker, although the Mukuba Pension Scheme and Mopani Copper Mines Plc have held discussions over the issue, the two parties have not resolved the actuarial funding to pay Mopani Copper Mines Plc employees the full pension. In this regard, the pensioners have commenced court proceedings against Mopani Copper Mines Plc for non-payment of their benefits.

Sir, the Mopani Copper Mines Plc, in turn, has commenced court proceedings against the Mukuba Pension Scheme because they have raised a dispute on the actuarial deficit to be paid to the Mukuba Pension Scheme. The two cases are in court.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the issue of the Mukuba Pension Scheme seems to affect all the former ZCCM mines. I would, therefore, like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development what the position on the payment of the former RAMCOZ Mukuba Pension’s dues is.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, the question we are dealing with, which is very clear and specific, is that the Mukuba Pension Scheme has a minimal funds obligation to the scheme. The question raised by Hon. Kambwili, pertinent as it may be, needs research before we can answer it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that there is no legislation that compels the new mine owners to remit pension contributions to the Mukuba Pension Scheme rather than them remitting to the Regina Satuna Pension Scheme, which is indigenous, according to the new investors.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, all employers are obligated to remit workers’ pension contributions to various pension schemes. This matter is in the courts because the two parties disagreed on the outstanding amount because the pension scheme is contending the outstanding K7.9 billion which has increased to K10.5 billion.

Sir, our interest is to ensure that this matter is concluded early and to the satisfaction of all parties involved.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, this company has shown great reluctance to conclude this matter for a long time. Can the hon. Minister agree that the lack of a robust approach by the Government to ensure that the mine owners pay the dues to the Mukuba Pension Scheme and the workers has led to this matter dragging even when the companies were making huge windfall profits. Now, they are wasting time by going to  court.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I sincerely share the concerns by Hon. Machungwa over this issue. I think the delay, really, is because of the two matters are in court. The workers have taken the Mopani Copper Mines Plc to court and in turn, the Mopani Copper Mines Plc has taken the workers to court. There is a cross petition. We are also very concerned with the delay. I would like to say that we will try to speak to both parties to see whether this matter can be resolved rather than going to court.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

PROJECTS UNDERTAKEN BY THE RAILWAY SYSTEMS OF ZAMBIA

71. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) what capital projects the Railway Systems of Zambia had undertaken to recapitalise the company from inception to date; and

(b) how much had been spent on the projects at (a) above.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Sayifwanda): Mr Speaker, the capital projects that the Railway Systems of Zambia have undertaken to recapitalise the company from inception to date are as follows:

Track Rehabilitation

Mr Speaker, on the mainline, which is from Livingstone to Kitwe, only 9.75 kilometres, has been rehabilitated, leaving a length of 832.25 kilometres because 518 kilometres, which is 62 per cent of the line, was rehabilitated in 2003 before the handover. The other lines, which include Chililabombwe, Mufulira and Masuku, have not been attended to.

In addition, instead of complete re-sleeping, the Railway Systems of Zambia have merely been interlacing at an average of one concrete sleeper for every four wooden sleepers in the sections of the mainline which had not been re-laid prior to the concession.

Sir, on the marshalling yards, most of the worn out components on turnouts in major yards such as Kitwe, Ndola and Livingstone have not been replaced and this has led to a reduction in yard derailments.

Locomotive Maintenance

Mr Speaker, the locomotive holding has increased to fifty-six with the addition of other locomotives which had been sidelined. The current status of the locomotives is as follows:

Type of Total Over-  Overdue  Not                 Remarks 
Loco-    hauled  for  Serviceable
Motive    Overhauling

36GT  12 07  02   Nil           03 stabled
CU MP         unserviceable

GE U20C 32 06  Nil    Nil  08 stabled
           and 18

GE U15C 10 02  06   02

CMI  02 01  Nil   01  

Total  56 16  08   03

Mr Speaker, there is an apparent improvement in locomotive availability due to reduced rail traffic. Further, eight serviceable U20C locomotives have been stabled at the workshops. After overhauling a total of sixteen locomotives, in 2007, reliability increased to an average of 83 per cent compared to 78 per cent in 2005. However, it was observed that most locomotives had worn out wheels and all the ten locomotives at the workshops scheduled for overhaul required new sets of wheels.

Wagon Rehabilitation

Sir, a total of 2,000 wagons are reported to have been maintained since 2005 as detailed below:

 (i) Heavy repairs     300;

 (ii) Light repairs   1,450; and

 (iii) Accident repairs       250

Passenger Service

Mr Speaker, the programme to install lighting and running water in the twenty-eight passenger coaches bought from Spoornet has almost been completed, with the third  and last which consist of eight coaches, now being painted at the workshops.  These are expected to be in use before the end of February, 2008.

The passenger coaches that were taken over from the Zambia Railways Ltd (ZRL) have, however, been sidelined and most of them have been vandalised.

Safety, Health and Environment Management

Mr Speaker, the Railway Systems of Zambia have embarked on Safety, Health and Management programmes. The first phase of these programmes involves the pollution control and environmental mitigation measures which have already commenced, involving the construction of oil separators, including incinerators and dump sites at Kabwe, Livingstone, Ndola and Kitwe. 

Communication System Rehabilitation

Sir, the Railway Systems of Zambia are putting up a more modern radio-based signaling system, the Track Warrant System, and the operating rules have been finalised.

Plant and Equipment rehabilitation

Mr Speaker, a lot of progress has been made in reconditioning and rehabilitation of the overhead cranes and jib cranes. These have been certified by the Government inspectors. On the re-railing equipment front, more than 65 per cent of all hydraulic jacks were rehabilitated, with emphasis on reducing leakages, providing new high pressure hoses and providing motorised pumps. Lighting gensets are being provided to all stations were re-railing teams are.

Station Rehabilitation

A programme of giving face lift to the station facilities at all major railway stations has been embarked on. The stations at Ndola, Livingstone, Lusaka, Kabwe, Kapiri Mposhi, Mazabuka and Kafue are still being rehabilitated.

Mr Speaker, the expenditure, to date, is US $14.45 million. I would like to explain to this august House that the $14.45 million is meant for the five years of the concession agreement, from 2004 to 2008.  The concession agreement gave a threshold of an expenditure of US $10 million. According to the RSZ, this is above the given threshold.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, going by the lengthy answer given by the hon. Minister, I would like her to confirm whether or not the Railway Systems of Zambia have actually abided by the contractual obligations, especially with regard to the rehabilitation of the railway line. If they have not, what has the Government done about it?

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that concern.

Sir, the fact is that according to the concession agreement, as I have stated in the last part of the response, the company has done its best. Let me also mention to this august House that through my Ministry, the Government has engaged in fresh discussions with this company. I have already constituted a committee to handle this. I have also given them directives on what this Government would like to see from this company.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Phiri indicated.

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, some time last year, the hon. Minister of Health came to this House to explain the problem the country experienced with regard to Viracept. Viracept is an ARV that was alleged to cause cancer.

Is the hon. Minister in order to remain quiet when the people out there are given a contraceptive in the name of Depo-provera which is alleged to transmit HIV/AIDS to people. Is he in order to remain quiet without informing the nation through this House? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

 Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! In his point of order, the hon. Member for Kantanshi is saying that the hon. Minister of Health has remained quiet on a topical issue regarding the contraceptive that the hon. Member for Kantanshi has mentioned.

The Chair is aware of what sounds, to me, like communication by a cross section of people who have commented on this matter. What I am aware of is what you are also aware of. One school of thought, I don’t know whether these are scientists, said this contraceptive has been laced with an HIV substance.  The other school of thought, one of who is the hon. Minister of Health, is saying no, that is not true. This school of thought is saying that they have subjected this particular medication to scientific tests both at home and abroad and the result shows that the drug has not been laced with any HIV substance.

In exclusive audience with the hon. Minister of Health, by way of a Ministerial Statement, the Chair will have no objection to grant him …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … an opportunity to do so when he is ready.

The hon. Member for Luanshya was raising a Supplementary Question.

Ms  Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, arising from the elaborate answer that the hon. Minister has given, I would like to know if at all the committee that has been constituted in the Ministry has been given an instruction to also look into the Luanshya railway line because we have a problem relating to the railway line in Luanshya.

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I would say that I have given instructions to the joint committee to look into the whole railway line being operated by the Railway Systems of Zambia.  Apart from that, we are negotiating the whole concession agreement.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, the nation was informed by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, that the Government had terminated the contract of the Railway Systems of Zambia. This pronouncement was made in Cape Town, South Africa. Thereafter, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning made a statement on the Floor of this House where he indicated that the Government was very unhappy with the performance of this particular company. Is the hon. Minister on the Floor contradicting her hon. Colleagues in the Government by expressing her happiness with the performance of RSZ and without indicating what has now changed from the earlier statements?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, let me say that the pronouncement that was captured in South Africa was just a rumour.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Sayifwanda: As a result, the agreement is legal. There is no way we can terminate a contract on which hon. Members and the whole nation have already appended their signatures. It is a legal document. If I remember correctly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning did not just talk about the Railway Systems of Zambia, but the entire railway infrastructure in this nation.

I am agreeable that there is not much that the RSZ have done with regard to infrastructure. This is the reason I am saying that as a Ministry and Minister in charge of railway infrastructure, I have constituted this committee to look into all these issues.

 I thank you, Me Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simama (Kalulushi): Mr Speaker, how many years has it taken the Railway Systems of Zambia to rehabilitate the 9.5 kilometres they have worked on so far and when are they promising to finish the remaining 800 kilometres?

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member was listening, I said that the other part was worked on by the Zambia Railways Ltd at the time the Railways System of Zambia was taking over. Therefore, since the committee is now sitting, they have to discuss all these issues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, vandalism of assets which were left by the Zambia Railways Ltd while in the custody of the Railway Systems of Zambia is definitely evidence that the assets are not secure. What will your Government do to ensure that the vandalised assets are paid for by the Railway Systems of Zambia?

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I have stood on the Floor of this House on several occasions to emphasise the problem of vandalism. I have also encouraged hon. Members to be on the look out for incidents of vandalism. This issue is neither for the company nor for me as Minister in charge of the railway infrastructure, no. it is for all Zambians to ensure that what the infrastructure we put in place lasts long.

I remember last time when I was contributing to a debate I said that vandalism would not build this country at all. If we resort to vandalism, just know that we are taking ourselves backwards, which is not healthy.

To answer the last part of the question, Mr Speaker, I have told the company to ensure that they put security measures in place like the Zambia Railways Ltd did.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF SCIENCE LABORATORIES

72. Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. asked the Minister of Education when science laboratories would be constructed at Lusuntha and Emusa Basic Schools in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, Emusa Basic School was granted the status of an open basic school in 2007 and Lusuntha is still a middle basic school. Therefore, the schools cannot be provided with laboratories at the moment, but science kits as any other basic school of such status.

I thank you, Sir.

GRADING OF THE MASANSA/OLD MKUSHI ROAD

73. Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Masansa/Old Mkushi Road in Mkushi South Parliamentary Constituency would be graded.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the Ministry intends to carry out the maintenance of the Masansa/Old Mkushi Road. The project was earmarked for maintenance under the European Union first tranche, but there were no responsive contractors in 2006. Tenders for periodic maintenance will be invited, as the project has been included in the 2008 Road Development Agency Annual Plan and will be funded under the European Union Sector Budget Support.

I thank you, Sir.

NYIMBA DISTRICT CO-OPERATIVE UNION BOARD

74. Mr Tembo (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) what disciplinary action the Ministry had taken against the members of the Nyimba District Co-operative Union Board who were responsible for the maize shortages and mishandling of the maize purchasing exercise during the 2005/2006 farming season; and

(b) how many bags of maize had gone to waste in the farming season at (a) above.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, a special general meeting was convened by the Registrar of Co-operatives on 9th February, 2007. Through this special general meeting, the Nyimba District Co-operative Union Board, alleged to have mishandled the 2005/2006 maize purchasing exercise, was removed from office and replaced by a new Board of Directors. A new Executive Committee was also elected from the new Board in the spirit of good co-operative governance, to carry out the functions of the District Co-operative Union.

At the same meeting, the District Commissioner requested the Registrar of Co-operatives to institute investigations and an audit to be carried out into the maize shortages and mishandling of the maize purchasing exercise in the 2005/2006 farming season. In line with Section 63 of the Co-operative Societies Act No. 20 of 1998, the Registrar of Co-operatives has since instituted investigations and an audit.

The investigations and audit report on the matter are underway and will be presented to a special meeting of the delegates under the direction of the Registrar of Co-operatives as soon as it is completed. Appropriate action shall be taken by the District Co-operative Union, depending on the findings of the investigations and audit report.

The accurate number of bags of maize that went to waste in the 2005/2006 farming season will only be determined once investigations and the audit report referred to in (a) above have been completed and are ready.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, what happened to the three truck loads of maize for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) from Nyimba shed that were intercepted at the Chongwe Police check point for being in possession of FRA forged documents?

Can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that there are no security measures applied to the co-operative societies that are buying maize on behalf of FRA?

Mr Kalenga: Mr Speaker, as I have indicated, we carrying out an audit and immediately has been completed, the issue will be handled by the District Co-Operative Union. A decision will be made immediately the investigations have been conducted.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, it takes the Auditor-General less than one year to audit ministries and other spending agencies. Why is it that it has taken the Minister’s auditors one full year to audit one small district co-operative union? What are the problems with the auditing? Why is it taking such a long time?

Mr Kalenga: Mr Speaker, that is a new question, …

Laughter

Mr Kalenga: … but I would like to inform the hon. Member that we do not have a full-fledged audit team at the Ministry. However, we are carrying out whatever investigations we can do in order to come up with a thorough report.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, there are lapses in the Food Reserve Agency and the Co-operative Societies Acts. That is why it is difficult for some activities such as auditing to take place. What has the Ministry done to look into the two Acts, namely the Co-operative Societies and the Food Reserve Agency Acts since they have a lot of loopholes?

Mr Kalenga: Mr Speaker, in response to the hon. Member for Chadiza, who is a former Principal for the Co-operative College, …

Laughter

Mr Kalenga: … we have taken note of his observation and we shall come to this House to present a new Act.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has indicated to this House that his Ministry, actually, lacks an audit team to make sure that they are always up to speed with the status of the reserves that are in the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) shades. Can the hon. Minister therefore, concede to the fact that the absence of this audit team is the reason 40 per cent of the maize in the FRA shades countrywide has either been completely weevilled or rotten.

Mr Kalenga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should not put words in my mouth, …

Laughter

Mr Kalenga: … I did not say we did not have an audit team, but that we did not have a full-fledged audit team. As a Ministry we cannot allow the maize to be weevilled or go to waste. Therefore, we will do everything possible to prevent it from being weevilled or rotten. However, I do not know the hon. Member’s source of information. Therefore, he is welcome to come to the office to give us his source of information.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL CLASSROOM BLOCKS AT LUMEZI MIDDLE BASIC SCHOOL

75. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) when additional classroom blocks would be built at Lumezi Middle Basic School in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency to cater for the growing number of pupils; and

(b) when Lumezi Middle basic School would be provided with school desks for the existing classrooms.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, a 1x3 classroom blocks will be completed this year at Lumezi Middle Basic School and the completion of these classrooms will contribute towards creating more space for pupils.

Lumezi Middle Basic School will be provided with desks as soon as the Ministry starts procuring desks. This will be done after the release of funds from this year’s Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister where that classroom block is being built, because as far as  I know, we do not have any classroom block being constructed at that school. At the same time, I would like to ask the hon. Minister, in his answer to part (b) of the question, whether there could be any good learning environment for 548 pupils against forty-eight desks only.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member knows very well that the construction of the classroom block is taking place at Lumezi Middle Basic. If he cares to get more details, I have the 2008 Plan of Lundazi District which indicates what is proposed to be done this year and we can give him more information on that.

This year, as indicated in the answer, Mr Speaker, as far as the procurement of desks is concerned, the situation is as indicated in our response. When the funds become available, we shall address the situation of shortage of desks at Lumezi Middle Basic School.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how the hon. Minister distributed the desks which were procured out of the K200 million allocated last year. This is because, like Hon. I. Banda says, equally, in Bahati, there are schools that literally did not receive any desks. I have just come from there. How did you distribute the desks hon. Minister? Which schools in my constituency were beneficiaries?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I have pointed out, time and again, in this House, in the course of last year, that as a Ministry, we distributed 1,250 double-seater desks and 500 single-seater desks to all the provinces. The distribution within the province was done by our staff on the basis of their scale of measure of the acute shortage of desks in the respective schools. However, that information is available at the District Education Board Secretary Offices and the Provincial Education Offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe (Choma): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister explain to this House the policy of the Ministry. Is it to build classroom blocks first or staff houses?

Hon. Government Member: Whichever.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who is a long standing teacher knows very well what the policy is. The policy is ‘infrastructure development’ which is inclusive of classrooms and other facilities and where the need arises, it is the construction of teachers’ houses.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, why when the Ministry starts building schools in one province, in the long run, they abandon them and start building other schools in other provinces. Why is it like this?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is always important to be specific. I would request the hon. Member to indicate, specifically those structures which he is referring to so that we can give him a clearer and specific answer.

I thank you, Sir.

NUMBER OF TOURISTS IN LUAPULA PROVINCE FROM 2006-7

76. Mr Chimbaka asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural resources:

(a) how many tourists visited Luapula Province from 2006 to 2007;

(b) which areas were visited most; and

(c) which countries the tourists at (a) above came from.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, the only records of tourists to the Luapula Province available are for the Lusenga Plain National Park and the Ntumbachushi Falls. According to these records, the number of tourists that visited the Luapula Province from 2006 to 2007 were as follows.

Year  Lusenga Plain National Park  Ntumbachushi Falls

2006   4     679

2007   126     804

Total   130     1,483

The Lusenga Plain National Park was, until recently, a depleted national park, thus the low number of tourist visitations in 2006. However, in 2007, the Zambia Wildlife Authority, with the support of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), restocked the park with 151 impalas, sixty zebras and sixty pukus.

Mr Speaker, with regard to part (b) of the question, the areas that were visited most were the Ntumbachushi Falls and the Lusenga Plain National Park.

Mr Speaker, as regards part (c) of the question, the statistics available are not segregated by country of origin. However, it suffices to say that they were forty-nine non-Zambians in 2006 and three in 2007. The rest of the tourists were locals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, going by the statistics that have just been given by the hon. Minister, it can be concluded that tourists to the Luapula Province are very few. What plans and strategies does the Ministry have to boost tourism in the Luapula Province? Apart from the Lusenga Plain National Park and Ntumbachushi Falls, what is the Ministry planning to do in order to encourage tourists, both local and international, to visit potential areas like the white sandy beaches of the Lakes Mweru and Bangweulu?

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, plans are there to boost tourism in the Luapula Province. The Luapula Province falls under what we call the ‘Northern Circuit’ which we intend to develop in terms of tourism. As you heard from the President’s Speech, there are already plans to start from the Kasaba Bay, which will be the entry point for the Northern Circuit. We are aware of the potential that the Luapula Province has. We are also aware that a lot can happen on the beaches of Lakes Bangweulu and Mweru, the Mumuluma Falls, Nkundalila Falls and so on. Therefore, we will develop the infrastructure, but the starting point is the Kasaba Bay, as stated in the President’s Speech. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, the Luapula Province is endowed with natural wonders such as stone houses. Are there any measures that are being taken by the Ministry to ensure that areas where such wonders are found are opened-up in terms of road infrastructure?

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I have already said that there are plans to improve infrastructure such as roads to open-up these areas. However, we have to be systematic and our starting point is the Kasaba Bay. When the time comes and resources are made available, we will also get to these other areas. We have already said that the Northern Circuit is enjoying priority over other areas in the country that require the same attention. Therefore, for the time being, the hon. Member should be content that the province is, at least, already being considered for infrastructure development.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Chitika (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what problems the Ministry is encountering in trying to open-up the area, especially the Ntumbachushi area because as a council in Kawambwa, we have approved a number of applications to enable both local and foreign investors construct lodges in the area.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, we are not having any problems. The area belongs to the National Heritage. As a Ministry, we are working with them to make sure that the area has a management plan before we can allow the private sector to invest there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what incentives the Government has put in place to attract local tourists.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, this House recently approved the establishment of the Zambia Tourism Board, which is a marketing instrument that we are going to use to develop domestic and international tourism.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify the figures of several hundred people visiting Ntumbachushi in the last two years. Ntumbachushi has been used for both the Patriotic Front Provincial Conference and several events of the Mwata Kazembe Royal Establishment. Are the people that attended these functions included as tourists? If this is the case, would the hon. Minister agree that there is actually no tourism in the Luapula Province?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Guy Scott for that question. Maybe I should start by giving the definition of a tourist. A tourist is somebody who leaves his home and stays away from home for about twenty-four hours. So, if they were at Ntumbachushi for twenty-four hours, they were considered tourists.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, could both the hon. Minister and his Deputy tell us when these plans will materialise. When do you hope to materialise these plans?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, our plans are actually advanced. You saw in the press that we received the Libyans who have come here looking for business. I should announce here that they are also interested in the Kasaba Bay. Therefore, we have already started attracting investors. However, I want to encourage hon. Members to go and get land in Luapula so that when the investors come from outside, the land that you will bid for will be used as equity to participate in tourism. If you do not, what will happen is that they will the best pieces of land that is how we lost in Livingstone. The whole frontage of the Victoria Falls was taken by the whites. Therefore, this is the time for you to rise and go and shine in Luapula.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): I would like to ask the hon. Minister in relation to local tourists. It is a fact that local tourists mostly are unable to go to these tourists areas due to financial restrictions. Could the hon. Minister confirm that in that policy statement or whatever plan, that aspect has been addressed because most of our people cannot afford to go to these tourist centres?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we are working out modalities to make sure that the facilities are affordable to the Zambians. However, I must also say that it is not true that the Zambians are not going to these areas because they do not have disposable income. It is just that they do not have the concept of going on holiday. Please, I want to invite you to come to Kozo Lodge. We have started a scheme where we would accept you to come and open an account so that you take your wives or husbands for a holiday, you are most welcome.

I thank you, Sir.

PUBLIC MARKET AT NANGOMA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

77. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether there were any plans to construct a public market in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, in which area.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, in response to the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nangoma Constituency, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has plans to build public markets in all the districts in Zambia, including Mumbwa where Nangoma Constituency is. Currently, my Ministry is implementing a programme called Market Rehabilitation and Maintenance whose objective is to repair, rehabilitate and maintain those markets that have already been established in all the districts. However, in recent years, my Ministry has expanded this programme to cover small-scale construction of public markets in some districts and Mumbwa is one of the districts that have already benefited from this exercise. To this effect, my Ministry released K50 million to Mumbwa District in December, 2007 for market rehabilitation.

I thank you, Sir.

OPENING OF A TRADES TRAINING INSTITUTE AT SICHILI IN MULOBEZI CONSTITUENCY

78. Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training whether the ministry had plans to build or open a trades training institute at Sichili in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency where there was infrastructure left by the Catholic Homecraft Centre.

The Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Ms Changwe): Mr Speaker, the Ministry is currently mobilising resources for the renovation and recapitalisation of existing training institutions that have been run down over the years. In light of this, the Ministry is currently not in a position to build or open any new trades training institutes in the province. However, our current policy is to encourage public private partnerships in the provision of skills training. In line with this policy, the Ministry will assess the infrastructure left in Sichili with a view to establishing whether or not private or community participation by interested stakeholders is feasible.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

MOTION

BUDGET 2008

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to continue the contribution on the Budget Address.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 25th January, 2008, this House was honoured to listen to the presentation by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning of the 2008 Budget. The theme of this year’s Budget is “UNLOCKING RESOURCES FOR ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT AND WEALTH CREATION”. This is a timely theme in recognition of the need to accelerate the implementation of the Fifth National Development Plan.

Mr Speaker, before I proceed to debate the Budget in detail, I wish to raise preliminary issues aimed at the economic achievements of the New Deal Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: In the past five years, the country has achieved micro-economic stability with real Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growing by more than 5 per cent, reduction of inflation to a single digit, stable exchange rates and declining interest rates, a stable financial system, a reduction in the  external debt burden and a considerable build up in foreign exchange reserves.

Mr Speaker, allow me, therefore, to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his management team and staff at the Ministry for the efficiency they have demonstrated in the preparation of the National Budget ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … that was presented in Parliament before the end of January, this year. This is a historical achievement. It is my wish that this august House will emulate the hon. Minister’s example.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, let me now look at some of the specific sectors of the economy and how they have been provided for in the 2008 Budget.

Mr Speaker, on agriculture, the New Deal Government’s commitment to agricultural development cannot be questioned by hon. Members on your left.

Hon. Government Member: There is no question. Hammer!

Mr Mwanza: This commitment has led to an improvement in crop production, …

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … livestock and fisheries development.

Let me remind this House that this year, the country is witnessing a food surplus for the second consecutive year with cumulative stocks reaching 68, 389 metric tonnes.

Hon. Government Member: Question that!

Mr Speaker, while noting the positive development in the agricultural sector brought about by the MMD New Deal Government, I wish to express my concern about the reduction in the allocation of funds to the sector. The House may note that in 2007, K1064.8 billion was allocated, while in this Budget, only K800.8 billion has been allocated.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: This is of concern, considering that the majority of Zambians depend on agricultural-related activities for their livelihood.

Hon. Member: Mwanamulume!

Mr Mwanza: This reduction is also contradicting the Government stated policy on making agriculture the engine of development.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, as regards education, I welcome the steps that the Government has taken to improve the provision of education in Zambia. I wish to commend the Government for the effective deployment of 10,600 teachers and the projected recruitment of 5,000 teachers in 2008.

The Government should also be commended for its programme of rehabilitating and constructing classrooms and teachers’ houses countrywide.

Mr V. Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: This deliberate investment will lead to an increase in the number of pupils to be enrolled in Grade 1. In addition, the Government should be congratulated for establishing a third public university in Kabwe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Also, the Government should be commended for upgrading the Nkrumah and COSECO Teacher Training Colleges to award degree certificates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, This is a true demonstration of the Government’s commitment to improving the standards of education for the future generation.

While appreciating the Government for establishing the third university and upgrading the two colleges, there is a need for further expansion in tertiary education more especially in technical institutions because there is a need for training of more technicians.

Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about health. In line with the Government’s objective in 2007, of providing quality accessible health care, the Government abolished user fees in all the fifty-four rural districts and employed over 1,100 medical personnel. The Government also constructed thirty-three health posts in various districts and undertook the construction of new hospitals and health centres.

In the same vein, I would like to thank the Government for giving a first-level hospital to the Lumwana area.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: As hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West where, I am very grateful to the New Deal Government for this gesture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President’s administration has shown a high level of commitment in the fight against HIV/Aids and Health. This commitment has been shown by His Excellency himself who mentions the subject of HIV/Aids and the continued provision of free anti-retroviral therapy. It is also gratifying to note that the number of people receiving medication countrywide has almost doubled since 2006.

Mr Speaker, in the area of social protection, I would be failing as a former employee and senior member of management in a top social security organisation in Zambia, if I did not acknowledge the Government’s good intention to settle all pension arrears in 2008.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: It is gratifying to note that the Government has allocated K577.7 billion which will be used to pay pension arrears, meeting the current obligations in the Public Pensions Fund and caring for the aged, orphaned and vulnerable children. This is a clear testimony that the New Deal administration is at work.

Mr Speaker, regarding the tax reforms, since Independence, Zambia’s economy has been sustained by the revenue from the mining industry. However, due to changes in the world market and a lack of adequate investment in mining infrastructure, there has been a reduction in the revenue that the Treasury is getting from the industry.

The MMD Government should be applauded for turning the mining industry round through the deliberate policies that have been implemented countrywide. We have, in this vein, witnessed an increased flow in investment and profitability.

Mr Speaker, the revision of the tax regime in the mining sector is most welcome. The revision of the tax measures for the mining sector will enable the industry make a significant contribution to the Treasury. The revenue will enable the country move towards achieving the Millennium Development Goals, an objective set out in the Fifth National Development Plan.

Mr Speaker, while the revision of tax is long over due, I have concern over the Lumwana Development Agreement. With regard to the provision on paragraph 4 (b) of clause 19 of the proposed Income Tax Amendment Bill, of 2008, would the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning clarify whether a mining company which is still in its development stage and has not yet commenced its production activities be affected, as reported in today’s Times of Zambia Newspaper on page 1, titled “Lumwana Seeks Clarification”. I will, in due course, lay on the table, the two documents I am referring to.

Mr Speaker, my appeal to the House, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, is to urge the Government to expedite the creation of a new district at Mwembejhi in view of the mining activities at Lumwana.

Further, I appeal to the listening New Deal Government to facilitate the creation of a …

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … non-mine Township in the same constituency to develop alongside the mine township which is already under construction.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, the Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is well intended, focused and presents hope for the future.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, in this regard, the need for the implementation of the hon. Minister’s very noble 2008 Budget objectives cannot be over emphasised. We need to see every Kwacha spent and rather return colossal sums of unspent money to the Treasury when so many projects, particularly in the rural areas remain incomplete.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: As the people’s representatives, we will constantly remind the Government about each obligation and hold it accountable for any failure to observe its mandate as contained in this year’s Budget.

As rightly noted by the hon. Minister, the Government should urgently deal with the problem of lack of capacity by the implementing agencies such as ministries, that has, in the past, affected budget implementation.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion. Firstly, allow me to begin by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: … on his elaborate speech whose theme is, ‘Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation.’ In itself, the theme promises a good economic package. It gives the impression that our country will eventually attain a fully- vibrant economy with all citizens empowered to economically contribute to and benefit from the country’s wealth and resources.

In this regard, I certainly agree with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that it is about time Zambians reaped the benefits of their sacrifice that are long overdue. However, I cannot help, but wonder whether the poor people in our society will be among those who will benefit from the resources which will be unlocked. I hope the empowering of our citizens will encompass everyone and not just a few, as has been observed in the past where the poor were getting poorer while the rich were getting richer.

Consequently, for this theme to be translated into reality, we need to have a clear definition and understanding of who the resources will be unlocked for, what we mean by economic empowerment and for whom it is intended.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Similarly, there is also a need to articulate the target group for wealth creation. Without these specifics, Mr Speaker, the theme for this year’s Budget will go down in the annals of history as empty and meaningless rhetoric.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the Government intends to bring down the end-of-year inflation to not more than 7 per cent. This is very optimistic target, considering that the country is likely to have a reduced grain output owing to the abnormal rainfall that has devastated the 2007/2008 Farming Season. However, I feel that a revised target of 9 per cent for 2008 would have been a more realistic estimate.

Mr Speaker, in every year’s Budget, the majority of our hard working people are ever expectant to see whether there will be any relief for them in terms of Pay as You Earn (PAYE). This year was no exception. Waiting with unabated breath, hardworking Zambians in formal employment heard the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announce that the revised the Pay as You Earn structure had earned those in the low-income bracket an additional K100,000 relief by moving the threshold income from K500,000 to K600,000. I am grappling to find a cause for celebration with this revised structure, in particular, that of the low-income bracket. I strongly believe that an addition of K100,000 is too minimal to make a marked difference in the life of an ordinary poor citizen in this country.

Sir, on what basis was the amount arrived at? I ask this question because this amount is too remote from the situation on the ground, as indicated by the monthly food basket which gives us an idea that an average family requires more than K600,000 to sustain itself.

In view of this, I propose that the threshold income be revised from K600,000 to K1,000,000 …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: … to lighten the tax burden which is not evenly distributed. This year’s Budget reveals that the bulk of the projected K4 billion Income Tax that the Government will earn will come from formal employment. This fact takes us back to the theme, and the question stands, ‘Who then are we empowering and who stands to benefit from the resources and the wealth creation?’

Mr Speaker, with regard to the education sector, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning informed us that the Government intends to build more schools at both basic and high school levels. This is a welcome initiative, as education is the cornerstone for a strong and well-developed nation. However, I would also like to point out that there is a need for a shift in the construction of primary schools from urban areas to rural areas where most schools …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: … consist of mud and pole structures. Similarly, the Government should also ensure that the majority of teachers who are recruited are placed in schools in the rural areas as opposed to being confined to urban areas only.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, considering the floods that have been experienced in the current farming season, the Government should have prioritised the rehabilitation and expansion of grain storage facilities as well as the rehabilitation of feeder roads to ease the marketing of crops in the rural areas. Zambia has a potential storage capacity of about 2,000,000 metric tonnes.

This way, the country will not be forced to import food should it experience further floods and possible droughts in subsequent years. This also calls for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to be capacitated unlike the case was in 2007. However, the reduced targeted expenditure in agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting under the economic affairs function, suggests that such measures might not be implemented.

Sir, the energy sector will continue to be a major concern, particularly the electricity and petroleum sub-sectors. The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) is too overstretched to effectively manage the generation, transmission and distribution of electricity in the country.

The Zambian Government is well aware of this constraint and has since been implementing the rehabilitation programme. Suffice it to say, Mr Speaker, that this programme has been going on for a long time, but no results have been seen yet. Meanwhile, the problem of electricity supply in the country appears to be getting worse.

In view of the current crisis, it is not prudent for ZESCO to continue exporting power when it has a readily available domestic market where the bulk of its money comes from.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Sir, I wish to commend the Government for introducing a new fiscal and regulatory framework for the mining sector. These changes are long overdue and are definitely welcome.

However, considering that the mines have been benefiting from the high metal prices for some time now, I am of the opinion that the windfall tax threshold of the price of US$2.50 per pound on copper is still generous. These agreements were negotiated when prices were around US$1.30 per pound. Therefore, a more realistic threshold for windfall tax should have been US$2 per pound.

Mr Kasongo: Balibashita!

Mrs Mwamba: At this level, the country can be cushioned against a significant drop in the price from the prevailing roughly US$3.17 per pound.

Mr Speaker, the prospecting of minerals is very important to our economy. However, the prospecting process should be well monitored, transparent and the affected local communities should be involved according to the country’s mining policy. It is important that investors should work with the local communities who should be involved in the prospecting process. Priority for jobs, if any, should be given to the local communities so that the benefits of the prospecting are ploughed back into the communities.

Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the allocation of funds to the health sector has slightly gone up by 0.8 per cent from last year. I hope a large amount of this allocation will go towards improving the health system, structure, quality and output in the rural areas. It is not enough to have well-built health structures without well-qualified health personnel, medical equipment and supplies.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state that a budget is simply a plan and that failure to implement it amounts to failure on the part of the Government. We should not have a repeat of last year’s backflow of cash, for lack of a better term, from spending agencies to the Treasury which indicated a lack of proper planning on the part of the Government …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: … even though the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning justified the inability of the ministries and spending agencies to utilise all the allocations. I was filled with a sense of sorrow and much trepidation when I heard from the hon. Minister of Finance and National that because of the good fiscal policies of the MMD Government, some money budgeted for in 2007 was left over and sent back to the national Treasury.

Mr Speaker, what came to my mind was a question of prioritising. Do we allocate adequate funding for very needy and critical sectors of our economy such as education and health? The answer is, ‘no’. I know that some areas will mean begging because no money was spent there even as money was being returned back to the Treasury …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: … rather than being spent on areas such as the improvement of the rural road network.

Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude by saying that if we do not distribute our resources equitably, especially in rural areas, urban areas and the line of rail, we shall continue to experience rural urban migration or an influx of people from the rural areas to urban areas where it is perceived that there are opportunities and ‘milk and honey’. This situation shall consequently result in the overpopulation of our cities which will make town and country planning very difficult.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear:

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I thank you forgiving me the opportunity to debate this Motion. I will start with the implementation and secondly, I will talk about the tender procedures.

Mr Speaker, we have heard in this House that K900 billion was not spent in 2007. We are talking about 10 per cent of the total Budget of 2007. Last year, we approved a Budget of about K11 trillion. This year, we are talking about K13 trillion. If last year, K900 billion was not spent, even this year, we expect to have over K1 trillion which will not be spent, if this trend continues.

Mr Speaker, we have a lot of problems in our country. Feeder roads in the entire country have not been worked on despite having approved the Budget in March last year. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply will agree with me that the feeder roads have not yet been worked on because of the tender procedures.

Sir, as a country, we are in a mess because work cannot move due to the tender procedures. Last year, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said that the Budget was good and all of us agreed with him, but the implementation aspect also comes in. Even this year, the Budget is good, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: … but if the money cannot be spent, then we have a problem as a country. This can only be sorted out by our colleagues on your right side. They have to admit that this is a mistake which has to be corrected.

Schools and clinics that were earmarked for 2007 have not been constructed because of the tender procedures we are talking about. In the rural areas, people are suffering. In clinics, patients sleep on the floor because of lack of beds and mattresses, but we are saying that the MMD Government is doing fine. 

Sir, there are no qualified health personnel in rural areas, especially in Chipili Constituency. We have talked about this matter before, but, to date, it has not been sorted out. In clinics, the people who are attending to patients are cleaners. The whole issue boils down  to implementation.

Mr Speaker, secondly, I would like to talk about rural electrification. The people in the rural areas need electricity. If you go through this year’s Budget, only K20.1 billion has been allocated to this programme. Last year, it was K21 billion. If you analyse that allocation, you will find that a electrification project from Mwinilunga to Kaputa will cost K14 billion and we will only remain with K6 billion. Therefore, are the people in rural areas going to have electricity? The answer is, ‘no’ because if you subtract K14 billion from K20 billion, only two projects will be catered for. I would, therefore, urge the Ministry to revisit that allocation.

Sir, the other issue is that of the master plan. The hon. Minister gave us small documents which looked like tissues.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, it was not specified when this project will take off. As I was saying, with the K20 billion which has been allocated in this year’s Budget, we are going nowhere. That is why I always praise the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila:  Sir, when it comes to planning, I will not be ashamed …

Ms Phiri:  Presidential Material!

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: …to praise the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing because she launched a Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme at Mulungushi International Conference Centre and we have a document on that. The amount of money required for that project to succeed is colossal and the donors have made a commitment to give us that money. All that is left is for the Government to give the Ministry the money that they need so that the project can be implemented fully. Therefore, I would urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, when we come to debating the individual ministries, to look into that issue.

Additionally, Hon. Masebo is very practical.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Some hon. Ministers just make noise.

Interruptions

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is important that if an hon. Minister is working hard, you praise him …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: …or her.

Secondly, I would like to talk about education. Again, we need a plan from the Ministry of Education. When you come to this House, you tell us that you will construct houses for teachers when the money is made available. We want to know what your plans are. We want to know how many houses will be constructed in each constituency for the next five or ten years. That is what we want.

That is the reason we are praising Hon. Sylvia Masebo.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: That is what we want. This is because the hon. Minister of Education …

Mr Shakafuswa: Nifuna ng’ombe

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: …recruited the teachers without providing accommodation. The hon. Minister of Education must look into that issue seriously.

Mr Speaker, coming to the issue of health, I do not like debating people, but we have a lot of problems in this sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Sir, patients are still sleeping on the floor. There are no mattresses, no beds and expecting mothers are delivering on the floor. That is a fact, and the hon. Minister knows it.

Sir, a lot of money in this Budget has gone to the Ministry of Health and we expect our elder brother to ensure that some of these problems are sorted out.

 Mr Speaker, I do not want to go further by debating him because the hon. Minister also wants to stand as president. So, I cannot proceed.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, roads that were earmarked for rehabilitation in 2007 have not been worked on. Tender procedures for feeder roads have to be worked on if we are to see meaningful development. 

Sir, I would like talk about the Kasama/Luwingu Road. The hon. Minister on the Floor of this House told us that each province had to pick two roads to be worked on.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: However, if you go through the Budget, there is nothing. Moreover, I have heard that the Ministry has terminated the contract for Sable Contractors. Last year, they only released K18 billion. The hon. Minister told us that they would work on twenty kilometres, but they have worked on less than fifteen kilometres. We only hope that the K33 billion that they have allocated for the rehabilitation of the Kasama/Luwingu Road will enable the contractor whom they will engage to work according to plan.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was talking about the Kasama/Luwingu Road. I said that the contract with Sable Contractors has been terminated and that last year, they worked on less than fifteen kilometres of the road.

Madam Speaker, last year, I said that at the pace they were moving, for us to complete the Kasama/ Luwingu Road, the Mutanda/ Chavuma Road and the Mongu/ Kalabo Road, it will take more than ten years. Therefore, there is a need for the Government to unsure that they pump a lot of money into these projects.

Madam, in this year’s Budget, only K1.2 trillion has been budgeted for all the roads in this country.

Lastly, I would like to talk about the issue of community benefit in the mining industry. After privatisation, there was a committee which was set put called Privatisation Monitoring Committee to ensure that the investors are following what is contained in the development agreements. However, most of the investors are not assisting the communities. If you go to the Copperbelt, you will find that the roads are bad and clinics are in a bad condition.

What I am saying is that there are no beds and mattresses. Therefore, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development should make sure that investors plough back some of their profits into the community.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to add a modest contribution to the debate on this year’s Budget.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me state that I am the bearer of a message from the people of Mapatizya, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani:…urging favourable consideration of the same by this Government.

Laughter

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, the message from Mapatizya is very simple. We do not understand complicated issues where I come from, but we understand our problem.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Therefore, as long as our problem is not attended to, then the budget is falling short of our expectations.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I have very little business to talk about straightforward matters which have been resolved, but where we are still falling short of the expectations of people, that is where we must concentrate.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, the debate on the budget has to start with the entire concept of the budget - the conceptual framework within which budgets are drawn. Issues of themes must be addressed. To what extent are these themes taking into account the basic problems in our economy?

Madam Speaker, I would like to remind this House that in 2006, we had a theme which read as follows, and I quote:

 “From Sacrifice to Equitable Wealth Creation.”

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Sejani: You can tell me how far we went in addressing the issues that are supposed to be highlighted in theme. The following year, we had another theme; very nice sounding theme. It read, and I quote:

“From Stability to Improved Service Delivery.”

 Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sejani: This is the year when the Government failed to do the most basic things such as providing fertiliser to our farmers. This year, we are talking about “Unlocking Resources ...

 Hon. UPND Members:  From where?

Mr Sejani: … for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation.” I assume we have the key.

 Laughter

Mr Sejani: I assume we have the key and we will not come in December with stories that the key got lost, …

 Laughter

Mr Sejani: … therefore, we are not able to unlock the resources.

Madam Speaker, to what extent are these themes addressing the basic problems in our economy, which have been acknowledged even by His Excellency the President himself. He said that in spite of the much-talked about economic development, these benefits have not tricked down to our people.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: That is the basic problem. In spite of the good figures that we quote, the high flying economic indicators that we quote, the benefits of economic development have not trickled down to the people. To what extent does the theme address issues of distribution? These are the issues that all hon. Members must be talking about.

Madam Speaker, I want to say that we are falling short of the people’s expectations. On more than one occasion, the nation’s expectations have been raised by stating that their quality of life is going to improve. It started from day one of this Government when zero-tolerance to corruption and the fight against plunderers were declared. We were told that once the money from the plunderers was recovered and ploughed back into the economy, our situation would improve. We are still waiting. More expectations have been raised.

Madam Speaker, next, we were told that the attainment of the Highly-Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Completion Point was a problem and that once the HIPC Completion Point was attained, our situation would improve. HIPC was attained several years ago, but we are still waiting for the benefits.

With regard to debt cancellation, the debt has been cancelled and the money that we were supposed to use to settle our debt should have been used to improve our roads. We are still waiting. Now, it is the mineral tax that we are waiting for.

Madam Speaker, the basic problem is that the resources are not reaching the intended poor people of our country, and yet we are busy quoting figures like GDP. We must have the capacity to look beyond these economic indicators. What does GDP tell us?  It tells us what has been produced in the country in total. It does not tell us who has produced it. If we have seven major producers, those are the only people who are participating in the economy, but it does not tell us who has participated. People are beginning to discard these indicators which do not tell us how wealth is shared in the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, we must look beyond these figures.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Looking at those figures, we should conclude that poverty has reduced in this country when empirical evidence is showing us otherwise. When my situating has improved, I will not be told by figures. I will feel it and it will show.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Just go to Kanyama, Garden and Kalingalinga Compounds, if you come back and tell me that the poverty has reduced, then I will ask that you be examined.

Laughter

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, the situation on the ground is different because our people are suffering. These indicators do not tell us who is going to bed on an empty stomach. They also do not tell us who is failing to send their children to school. These are the issues we must be focusing on and address if our budget is going to be meaningful to our people, especially in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, it could be that only about 15 per cent of Zambians are really participating in the economic activities. The rest are wallowing in abject poverty. Even when you talk about empowering the people, we could be empowering only about 15 per cent of Zambians while the rest are wallowing in abject poverty.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Even where we are talking about wealth creation, it could just be a few people creating wealth for themselves. How many Zambians are benefiting from and enjoying this wealth? I say, very few. It is high time we started paying attention to the poor sector of Zambia if this budget and the budgeting process are going to benefit us.

Madam Speaker, we want a budget that will enhance individual household productivity. That is productivity that will make it possible for me to afford the most basic things. I am talking about mealie-meal. I am not talking about a car. I am talking about mealie-meal, kapenta and beans.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, I am talking about charcoal. We want productivity that will help one afford to buy a bag of charcoal. So far, these issues have not been addressed. We have a budget which has 81 per cent going to Recurrent Expenditure and only 19 per cent to Capital Projects. If you were to change the situation in Zambia and create a viable industrial base, the figure for Capital Expenditure should go up so that productivity at individual household level is improved. Our people must be able to afford mealie meal, kapenta and sugar.

This is a simple message coming from the people of Mapatizya. Therefore, for those that do the planning, I wish to inform them that if I do not have sugar, have not seen my dam dug or my school rehabilitated, then there is no development. If people are celebrating somewhere because of a dam, then I will wait for a dam to be constructed before I celebrate.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: So, those Zambians who are not seeing these things have no business in joining the celebrations.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: If there is growth at Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning then, please, continue celebrating.

Laughter

Mr Sejani: We are moaning.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Where I come from we are moaning because these basic things are not there.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: On the issue of the tax burden, my colleagues have indicated that the tax burden is still high among the poor section of Zambia.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: In spite of the interventions made, you and I and the ordinary civil servant are still shouldering the burden of tax, especially the poorer section, and yet the corporate world is smiling. I wish to urge this Government to start behaving like Robin Hood.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: The robber!

Mr Sejani: I do not want you to rob, but tax …

Laughter

Mr Sejani: … the rich so that the poorer sections of Zambia are relieved from this burden.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: You must tax the rich more so that they share those profits with the poorer sections of Zambia. Be like Robin Hood. Leave the robbing part, but tax the rich, then we shall thank you.

Madam Speaker, I just want to find out what the hon. Minister is saying on the inflation. Hon. Minister, you have bemoaned the fact that there is no co-operation in terms of inflation that you are getting from the commercial banks.

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Sejani: I am going to quote what you said.

Interruptions

Mr Sejani: Listen! On page 4, paragraph 33, it says:

“Sir, in line with falling inflation, commercial banks’ lending rates fell to 24.4 per cent in December, 2007 from 27.9 per cent in December, 2006. However, commercial bank interest rates remained relatively high contrary to the Government’s expectations. Lack of positive co-operation seems to indicate the failure of liberalisation and market forces.”

I want to pause a question to you, hon. Minister. Are you admitting that we have reached a dead end in terms of liberalisation and market forces? What does this statement say?

Mr Shakafuswa: Rates!

Mr Sejani: What does it say?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Mr Sejani: How do you answer …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! Hon. Members, it is important that we listen at every turn of the debate. If we do not do that, then we engage in dialogue or conversation. That is wrong. Those who are making running commentaries make it difficult for the Chair to concentrate. My advice to those who are debating is that they debate through the Chair.

Hon. Member, speak to the Chair not directly to the hon. Minister. You may risk having people disturb your debate.

You may continue.

Mr Sejani: Madam Speaker, are we now admitting that liberalisation, which is a cornerstone of our policies, has reached a dead end and we are throwing in a towel? This paragraph does not shed enough light.

 Hon. Minister, when you come to wind up debate, can you shed some light on where we are? We are beginning to hesitate in terms of these key policy issues.

The other issue that I want to talk about has already been talked about and that is rural electrification. When are we going to get the master plan ready? Last year, we were told that it was going to be ready. Can we get an update on whether the master plan is ready now so that we can access the Rural Electrification Fund? Do we have the administrative arrangement that will make it possible for our people to access these funds? Or, again, as it happened last year, nothing is going to happen, it is just a figure which has been put there? These are some of the questions that we expect the Government to answer when they stand up to wind up debate.

Madam Speaker, I do realise that time is running out. However, I wish to talk about the external debt. I am very concerned that each time the hon. Minister stands up, he talks about a different figure. Last year, it was different. It is different from the national economic report of the same year. This year, there is another figure. What is the exact picture? We are getting confused because it keeps going up. We need to have better management of our data concerning the external debt. It is high time we got what we were promised by this Government that there will be a legal framework which will govern the way we monitor our data on debt. That is extremely cardinal.

Taking into account the time, Madam Speaker, let me end by saying …

Hon. UPND Member: Continue!

Mr Sejani: … that in this year’s Budget, we do not want this Government to behave like that story in some unforbidden literature. That there was a master who went away to a far away land and left his servants with some money.

To the first one he gave £10, second one £5 and the third one he left with only £1. When he returned, he discovered that the one he had given £10 had invested the money properly. There was more money. He praised him and gave him more money. So did the second one. However, the third one decided to wrap the pound in a napkin and kept it so when the master returned he would show it to him that he did not use the money.

We have not used it we are very good boys or girls. They were lambasted by the master …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: … because that is not the reason they were given that money.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: We have given you money in this year’s Budget not to wrap in a napkin, but to be used.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Sejani: We want to see dams, roads and schools being built. Do not come back in December and tell us that you had problems with the spending ministries when in actual fact the problem is with you due to the late release of the money. If you release the money in October it will not be spent.

 Do not come back and tell us that you could not build the dams because you had problems. Do not come back! Do not come back before you pay Omnia for their fertiliser to give our farmers. Do not come back here and tell us stories. Do not come back if the desks are not there for our children to sit on.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Do not come back!

Mr Sejani: Do not come back. That is the theme of my address, “Do not come back.”

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Mr Misapa (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance to debate on the Floor this afternoon.

In the first place, I would like to congratulate our Government under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., for having driven the nation to the level where we are now.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: I know that it is not easy to be a father in a house. A father faces a lot of challenges, but definitely, what is good, remains good and what is bad, remains bad.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: We are really doing very fine …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … because the Government has made a lot of successes and achievements. To mention a few, beyond no doubt, we know very well that in the mining sector, definitely, all over the world, we have made a mark.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: With regard to inflation, our nation is one of the nations that is doing very fine. We have a single digit in terms of inflation. That is a success.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Hon. Members were making noise.

Madam Deputy  Speaker: Order! The Chair would like to listen to the debate.

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, I have already mentioned that, what is good, needs to be praised. That is a fact. Definitely, the kwacha is catching up with the dollar, which we never expected.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, now, coming to the budget, we have been able to come up with a nice Budget this year. If we have gone through it, we will learn that out of K13 trillion which is likely to support our programmes and activities, about K9 trillion will be funded domestically within our nation. That is an achievement.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: However, Madam Speaker, we know very well that for all the activities and achievements to be interpreted correctly, they need to be transformed into reality. We need to identify certain factors or certain formulae. There, we may probably look at one formula by mentioning what we talked about last year, handling the situation or solving problems using a one at a time policy.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, we have now talked of many activities in the budget. To mention a few, we need to improve the hospitals, education and road infrastructure. Now, looking at this money, the fact is money is never enough.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: However, it depends on how the money is managed. Therefore, I would like to emphasise on a one at a time policy. What I am trying to say is that for us to achieve something tangible and be realistic, we need to identify and prioritise our activities. We may emulate the way the body works. We know that the body does not have enough blood, hence you find that when one eats, the blood will go to the stomach to allow digestion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, when somebody is studying in the library, the blood will concentrate on the head.

Hon. Opposition Member: Are you a scientist?

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, with regard to the one at a time policy, I would urge the Government to come up such a policy so that it identifies and prioritise the activities. For example, if the Government is thinking of working on the road infrastructure, it should first budget heavily on the road infrastructure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: At the moment we have about K13 trillion, therefore, we may say alright, out of this amount, let us set aside K8 trillion for road infrastructure alone so that …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … we work on the roads once and for all.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Then, the remaining K5 trillion can be used to cushion and solve some other problems for us to forge ahead.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, let me talk about the second formula that I would relate to the way my friends have been praising our hard working Minister for Local Government and Housing, Hon. Masebo.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: She is really a listening Minister.

We would like to request the Government to also think of increasing the Community Development Fund (CDF).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Why should we think of increasing the CDF from whatever amount to about K1 billion?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Practically, we know, without any doubt, that the moneys that are given to the ministries, before they can flow from the ministry headquarters to the grassroots, namely constituencies, there are a lot of activities that take place, hence, some siphoning takes place.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, Government departments like to conduct workshops so that they can have allowances. As a result, we are always likely to end up with almost nothing at the grassroots level.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, in my opinion, I would encourage the House to increase the money to K1 billion this year.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, coming to the third formula, I would also like to urge the Government to continue with its policies. Probably, I may need to remember the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing who talked of restructuring the ministries and departments. We need to continue restructuring the departments, why?

Mr Misapa drank some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, beyond no doubt, the ministries, departments or any other level, understand that many people are able to interpret the policies of the Government correctly. That is why we tend to wonder why certain ministries have failed to restructure their departments fully.

Hon. Opposition Member: Even in footballs.

Mr Misapa: Yes, even in football. There is a need to structure in order to have better performance.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, when we talk of education, yes, we have about K2 trillion allocated to the Ministry of Education. Well, it is quite a lot of money, but the question is, “is it the way it is distributed that we fail to achieve our goals?”

Hon. Opposition Member: Now, you are talking.

Mr Misapa: If we go to the ministries or the district education boards and just pick one programme such as standards and assessment, we would learn that the amount allocated to this programme is too low. I am using the word distribution or disbursement. Now, when we talk about children not performing well in schools, we need to ask whether it is because the teachers are not performing or because we do not have teachers. These are not the only factors that determine good performance of children in school.

We should also understand that the standards office, which used to be called the inspectorate office, has to be given enough money so that it is able to inspect and monitor the performance of teachers so that at the end of the day, we are likely to have better examination results. For Kalabo, for example, the allocation for monitoring is about K4.3 million per year and for inspection, K13 million per year. Technically, we need to revisit this part. If we erred with regard to distribution of resources, we need to definitely revisit this and do the correct thing.

Coming to infrastructure, and particularly road infrastructure which has now turned into a song, you will note that the amount of money allocated to this is definitely too low. We cannot manage to build, rehabilitate and maintain all the roads in Zambia with only K1 trillion. This is already a signal to the dark corners of Zambia like Mporokoso, Kaputa and …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Why Mporokoso and not Mungule bamudala?

Mr Misapa: … and other places.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: The road from Kasama to Kaputa, …

Mr Munaile: It is a nightmare!

Mr Misapa: … at the moment, is impassable.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: We have heard so many stories about mining prospectors in certain areas. The reason is that these areas have passable roads. However, because the Kasama-Kaputa Road is impassable, it makes the investors shy away from prospecting in this area. Through the Geological Department, investors are aware that there are minerals in Kaputa and Mporokoso. However, the question is how to reach these places.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: I am, therefore, humbly requesting the Government, especially the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, to consider the Kasama-Kaputa Road …

Mr Kambwili: Mporokoso naiwe!

 Mr Misapa: … via Mporokoso and is exactly 400 kilometres long. The Government just needs to give us an equivalent of K400 billion in United States Dollars …

Laughter

Mr Misapa: … to tar the road from Kasama via Mporokoso to Kaputa.

Talking of road infrastructure, the question is why do we need it? It is a very important amenity and attracts people to particular places. When we talk of staff retention such as doctors and nurses in hospitals and clinics as well as teachers, in Mporokoso and Kaputa where are no roads, ….

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … it is impossible to retain this calibre of professionals because they shun such places. I know that the Ministries of Education and Health send people there, but because of the non-availability of some important amenities, they fail to cope with life and they end up knocking at doors of provincial offices, requesting for transfers, hence our cry for just a road.

Laughter

 Mr Misapa: We are appealing to the Government to kindly help us on this issue.

In winding-up, I would also like to refer to amenities such as banks. We need banks in this area, but because of the state of the road infrastructure, people who want to invest in this sector cannot do so. Their fear is that it would be difficult to transport cash safely to such places. In this regard they would need a vehicle that would be move at about 170 kilometres per hour. If a vehicle is traveling at 60 kilometres per hour, they risk being ambushed by robbers.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: Yasila ntau concludani.

Mr Misapa: Yes, in conclusion, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … I really thank the Government. I know it is a listening Government and I am requesting it to come to our aid. I know that it is going to do so.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema (Chingola): Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to debate this year’s Budget. I am not competent to talk about issues relating to the economy and accounts, but I will look at this Budget in the way that the people of Chingola Constituency would look at it.

Madam Speaker, as the people of Chingola Constituency, we are aware of the fact that Zambia is renowned as a copper exporting nation worldwide. Of all the copper exported from Zambia, including the copper from the new mines, Chingola contributes a staggering 60 per cent.

In this very once upon a time cleanest and greenest town in Zambia, the water reticulation network, which was laid down many years ago during the colonial days, has been corroded and clogged. No matter how much water our gallant workers of the Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company treats and pumps, only less than 48 per cent is bound to reach some lucky consumers. The rest of it sips underground to quench the thirst of our departed ancestors.

Laughter

Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, our children do not know the function of showers and cisterns because any child who is less than seventeen years old has never seen water coming from the shower.

Madam Speaker, to correct this, the Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company needs only K38 billion. If the Government is not kind enough to give us that kind of money in the form of grant, the people of Chingola are ready to ask this money from this Government in the form of a loan. Through our enlarged and very competent Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company, we will pay it back, because we have the capacity. Therefore, we are asking this Government to secure us a loan, either from outside or within this country. After this, probably, the people of Chingola Constituency may have a rapport with this MMD Government.

 Otherwise, whenever you call for a meeting, there will be only children to listen to that meeting as it happened during the Nchanga By-election.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, according to the National Census of 2000, close to half of the people of Chingola Constituency live in the peri urban and rural areas. Chingola is probably the only district which has defied the general trend in Zambia of inclining to the rural urban drift. There, we see a drift from the urban area to the rural areas of the district. The reasons are very simple, there are no jobs. The people in the rural areas, along the Solwezi Road, that is the people of Kalilo, Ipafu, Muchinshi and Mutenda on the border with Solwezi, know and lament that their children and grandchildren, no matter how brilliant they are, will never reach Grade 12. No matter how brilliant a child is, he or she will never realise their dream barely because they cannot go up to Grade 12.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chingola Constituency, in the peri urban area along the Solwezi Road would like to have a boarding or high school built to cater for almost half the population as per the census of 2000. If such a school is built, probably any day, could they be ready to listen to this listening Government. Otherwise, I doubt if they can.

Madam Speaker, this, I think, can answer the question which His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. get closer to the microphone.

Dr Katema: … Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, paused when he came to the Copperbelt. He asked why, when he comes to the airport, thousands of people welcome him, but when it is election time, he does not know where they disappear to. Madam Speaker the answer is that people who are close to him may not be telling him the truth.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: This is an eye opener.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President had instructed the mine owners to own up in their duty of corporate responsibility. One year down the line, the Government, through the Mines and Minerals Development Minister informed this august House that a lot of work worth billions of kwacha has been done by the mining conglomerates. This report was challenged in this House and with the guidance of the Hon. Mr Speaker, a visit by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development together with the respective Members of Parliaments of the constituencies was undertaken.

Madam Speaker, may I use this opportunity to report on the findings since the report is not forthcoming. In Nchanga Constituency, we were privileged to be shown the Trust School. We all know that this school is a private school and was left by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM). It is not a new school at all. We visited a gym which has been there since the days of Anglo-American Corporation before ZCCM. In Chingola Constituency we visited some boreholes which were sunk for the people who used to draw water from Mushishima Stream which has now been clogged with silt and polluted with chemicals.

In Nchanga, we passed through some patched up roads which were never shown to us because there was nothing to show. The road work was attempted at and thanks to the infamous memorandum of understanding where half of the cost was to be borne by Konkola Copper Mines Plc and the other half by the Municipal Council by way of forfeiting their land rates which has been the only reasonable revenue the council could write home about for a period of four years, leaving a potentially rich council very poor and unable to pay its workers.

Mr Kambwili: Fire the Town Clerk.

Dr Katema: What is there to show for this, nothing, Madam Speaker. This work is incomplete and very shoddy.

On the issue of employment, we have heard reports here that the mining conglomerates are abiding by the labour laws and are not engaging casual labourers. Allow me to shed some light on how it is done. The mining giants may not engage casual labourers, but the whole district is full of casual labourers. Almost all the mining operations are contracted and subcontracted. If the mining company contracts a company to do their security work, maintenance of the grounds in the plant, blasting, hauling of copper ore to the surface and crushing it, all the mining operations are sublet and the onus is on those companies that are subcontracted to now engage ex-miners as casual labourers to do the work.

Therefore, everything has been sub-contracted and sub-let. The only thing which these mining conglomerates have not sub-contracted or contracted is the work of wrecking the profits into their coffers.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, let me talk about governance because in this budget we have a staggering K309.4 billion allocated to the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). There is a question I wish to pause here. What makes an Act of Parliament morally right or wrong? Can we judge an Act of Parliament morally right just barely by the fact that it has passed through all the stages and has been enacted and consented to by the President?

Madam Speaker, to help us answer this question, let us consult our faithful teacher, history. Not very far away and not very long ago, in South Africa, the Nationalist Party of Boers carefully and painstakingly worked out a plan to perpetuate the white supremacy in the country.

For Parliament, they made sure that in the agricultural districts where there were Boer farmers they made a lot of constituencies and in the very highly-populated towns where there were predominantly people of British origin who were liberal, there were fewer constituencies. This gave the Nationalists a majority in Parliament at the expense of the heavily-populated towns where, probably, their adversaries were.

Madam Speaker, this said, the Nationalist Party went ahead and passed law after law to suppress the black majority. The laws went through all the stages without a hitch and the laws were passed. These laws were even enshrined in the Constitution. This was the birth of apartheid.

These laws were legally bidding and ruthlessly enforced. The whole world cried foul and called this policy backed by legal laws, barbaric, inhuman if not an outright crime against humanity, yet these laws were passed by Acts of Parliament. Maybe that is very far. Let us come closer to Zambia.

Madam Speaker, was it not on the Floor of this House that we saw an Act of Parliament passed unanimously? This Act put the development agreements above the supreme law of the land that no law could be passed in this House to change the development agreements. There could have been a voice or two here which fought against this Act and they were silenced by the massive majority. This Act was passed and it is legally binding now. Not only is it legally binding, it is legally biting.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Barely ten years down the line, we heard, on the Floor of this House, how people on both your left and right wondered how people in their right frames of minds could pass such a law, and yet this law was passed and it was binding and it is still binding.

Madam Speaker, I am trying to push the point forward that an Act is not cast in iron and cannot be judged to be morally correct barely because it passed through this Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: This Act, Madam Speaker was passed by representatives of the people of Zambia. This brings me to the issue which brought this …

Dr Katema paused

… I am talking about this NCC because it has brought a lot of division and so much tension in this House …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I know that there is total freedom of expression here and I think that this House has gone through the President’s Address to this House. We are now addressing the Budget. So let us focus on the Budget if we can.

You may continue, please.

Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, this Budget has given a staggering K309.4 billion to the National Constitutional Conference.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: The people of Chingola are saying they only need K38 billion in the form of a loan so that there can be water in Chingola District and the babies of Chingola Constituency can see what a shower looks like and what a cistern is meant for.

Hon. Government Members: Order! Order!

Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, this is why the people of Chingola Constituency will continue to vote the way they vote until these things are looked into. Otherwise do not even come …

Mr Shakafuswa: And remain without water

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema:  … and dance.

Madam Speaker, the hired gun of the people of Chingola Constituency has fired. Next, the hired cannons of the people of Zambia are going to fire.

Madam  Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwangala (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, indiscriminately, I would like to congratulate all the past and present hon. Ministers, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: … their Deputies, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: … including the Opposition Members of Parliament for the job well done.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, in supporting the Budget, I would like to commend the Government for an impressive K13.7 trillion Budget. The Budget has been accepted world over.

Interruptions

Mr Mwangala: Even Hon. Hachipuka knows that it has been accepted world over.

Interruption

Mr Mwangala: We are even just wasting time.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, your listening Government has, generally, tackled all the major issues that stakeholders have raised, including the NCC.

What is the problem? What is your problem Chingola?

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: What are you talking about hon. Member for Chingola?

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: … speak through the Chair!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, let us give ourselves an opportunity to listen.

Hon. Member, debate through the Chair.

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, …

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … this is a Budget which assures that micro-economic ‘disability’ …

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … stability and growth continues.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: I repeat! It is a budget which ensures that micro-economic stability and growth continues.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, this is the first Budget of its kind, and even Hon. Kambwili knows that, because …

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … it outlines the true economic programmes.

Madam Speaker, the significant allocation of more resources to the education and health sectors was an indication that the New Deal Administration is committed to providing quality services to the people of Zambia. No doubt about it! Even the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU) has confirmed this.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, although people are happy in my constituency, there is one problem that both the past and present Governments have failed to sort out. This is the issue of floods. I just hear that relief food is being taken to other areas, and yet my constituency has also been affected.

Madam Speaker, relief food is being taken even to areas where people are able to walk on dry land like in the Southern Province and not Nalolo where the situation is critical this time. The people are asking that you look around and help serve the situation. The problem is that, the people who are sent to assess the flood situation in the Western Province just go to the coastline. They do not go into the Barotse Plains.

Interruptions

Mr Mwangala: This is the problem, hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. This is the problem.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: Madam Speaker, another issue is with regard to animal diseases. I am sorry if I sound hostile, but I would like to say that the province has been hit with the foot and mouth disease, but there are no drugs ‘to now’ …

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … to date which have been sent there.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwangala: The movement of animals in the Western Province, even to the abattoirs, has been banned.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: We do not have to talk about road infrastructure because it has improved. I am happy that, at least, the Mongu/Senanga Road has been rehabilitated and I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Works and Supply on this.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: However, there is still a problem.

Hon. Mubika, listen! We have a problem of water transport in the entire Western Province, from Lukulu West to Lukulu East, including Luena. We need water transport.

Mr Mubika: No problem!

Mr Mwangala: Another problem is that the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives has failed to separate the two agricultural seasons in the Western Province. We have wet lands which are supposed to be cultivated in April, June and July. We also have the normal farming season which is in October. It has been difficult because we have been included in the general agricultural system. We are, therefore, asking the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives- well, he is not there- …

Hon. Members: He is there (Hon. Kalenga).

Mr Mwangala: … to separate the two farming seasons. We need seed for the wetlands as early as April or May. He should not be inconsistent.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala: He should not give us seed at a time when the floods are almost touching our fruit. That is very inconsistent.

With these few words, I repeat, again, …

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … indiscriminately, that I thank you all, hon. Ministers.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: With regard to tourism, I would like to say that we need the Sioma Falls to be attended to, hon. Minister.

Finally I say …

Hon. Members: Continue!

Mr Mwangala: … I give chance to others, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. Actually, I had packed my notes, but I have decided to unpack them because we have been provoked by the debate that is half truth.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, I would like to echo what my elder brother, Hon. Sejani, has said here.

To begin with, I would like to say that there is something wrong with the very cover of the Budget Speech.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I am not impressed because you are showing us, on this very cover of your Budget Address, a picture of an abnormal truck carrying machinery for the mining industry.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: These are the trucks that are damaging our roads without paying adequate taxes to maintain these roads.

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Madam!

Hon. Members: Aah!

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member who is debating humbly, according to him based on truth, in order to say that the trucks which pass through our roads, taking the heavy goods to the Copperbelt, passed without paying taxes when it was even written in the newspapers that the transporter was charged by the Road Development Agency (RDA) for using the road? Is he in order to mislead this House with falsehoods when he wants to use facts himself?

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister has raised a point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor. He is concerned that the hon. Member debating is misleading the House because transporters pay tax.

The Chair would like to guide that the hon. Member on the Floor verifies the point he is making if it is factual. If not, then he should withdraw it because this House would like to get facts.

You may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the guidance.

In fact, the truck on the cover of the Budget Speech is not the one that the hon. Deputy Minister is referring to. There was only one track, but I would like to say that I am vindicated by the President’s Speech in this House that the mining companies were not paying the tax that they are supposed to and he proposed an increment because they were underpaying. That is a fact!

Madam Speaker, last year, the theme of the Budget Address was, “From Stability to Improved Service Delivery.” I want to say that this theme is unfinished business. Before this Government finishes last year’s business, it has already jumped to another theme. To me, these themes are basically rhetoric and semantics. It is high time we became serious in choosing these themes. We should not jump from one theme to another and live critical unfinished businesses.

Madam, in last year’s Budget Address, K900 billion was prioritised and it is still lying idle. This Government is failing to spend that money and now they are going to another theme. I will not even talk about the new theme because of the unfinished business for last year. 

Madam Speaker, service delivery is unfinished business by this Government. This Government consists of twenty-three Cabinet Ministers and thirty-seven Deputy Ministers. Altogether, we have sixty ministers. It is such a bloated Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, this is not fit for our economic environment. These resources need to be unlocked for all Zambians to benefit. Reducing the number of ministers does not disadvantage our colleagues because they are already hon. Members of Parliament. This is a bloated Government for a country that is struggling economically. It is, therefore, unacceptable that we run such a Government in such a poor country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, with this huge Government …

Ms Mulasikwanda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Mulasikwanda: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Hon. Hamududu is misleading the nation and this House by saying that this Government is bloated …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Mulasikwanda: … and is using the resources that are supposed to go to the Zambian people.

Madam, is the hon. Member of Parliament aware that the hon. Ministers of the New Deal Government are even underpaid …

Interruptions

Mrs Mulasikwanda: … compared to the hon. Members of Parliament in this House who receive a lot of money in terms of sitting allowances? Therefore, is it in order for him to speak in such a manner?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: There are too many Chairs making rulings on the point of order that has been raised. Basically, in this House, we do not go into our own conditions of service or debate ourselves.

Let me also assure the hon. Ministers that they will have time to respond to some of these concerns the hon. Members of Parliament are raising. Unless, it is a totally misleading statement that needs clarification immediately. The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I just arrived from Bweengwa this morning and I have the mandate from the people of that area to speak on their behalf. I am saying so because I have seen the potholes on our roads. Therefore, I know what I am talking about.

Madam Speaker, there is a need to change the arrangement of having dual Permanent Secretaries in the ministries. This is what has lead to poor service delivery. I can even give an example of the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. One of the reasons there is poor prioritisation is the duplicity of Permanent Secretaries in the ministries. Each Permanent Secretary is pushing for a vote for his department. I think directorates are enough. We need single Permanent Secretaries and Deputy Ministers in the ministries so that we sing the same song. This is one of the reasons we are not performing. There is a structural fault in this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, let me go to the Budget Address, earnestly.  I see a lot of consultations in this House and if you do it wisely and widely, you will benefit from it. 

Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the UNIP Government. In their twenty-seven years of power, they put ambitious programmes in place. If you doubt me, just drive out and see the Manda Hill Project. Go to the University of Zambia and see what they did. The MMD Government is now going into twenty years of rule and there is nothing to show for it. The MMD Government has been in power almost the same years as the UNIP Government. The first President of this country, Dr Kenneth Kaunda has advised us on many issues and we need to listen to him. In one meeting, he mentioned that he was an old man and from his experience, he felt that the right man to be President in 2011 is Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, we need to follow this wisdom. If you say that you are going to practice consultative leadership, you should listen and do not use imaginations. This economy is knowledge driven. We need to put people who understand economic issues. This is an old country and it has educated a lot of people. Therefore, let us have people who have sufficient knowledge to run this country. This country needs to be run like a business.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, the economy of this country is reported to have grown by 6.2 per cent compared to the other year when it was at 5.8 per cent. Basically, there is an increment of 0.4 per cent …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, if you have to consult, do it quietly. You are speaking almost above the voice of the debater and it becomes very difficult for us to get what he is saying.

Can we listen to the debate because that is the purpose for being in this House. 

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, this Government comes to this House to talk about the Fifth National Development Plan and Vision 2030. With this rate of growth, the Vision 2030 is basically utopian. When we go for seminars, this Government tells us that for us to achieve the Vision 2030, the economy must grow by 10 per cent or more. Now, we have an increase of 0.4 per cent from the other year and we still talk about Vision 2030. I think it should be changed to Vision 2099.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, at the rate we are going and the way we are managing our economic affairs at the moment, we cannot achieve the Vision 2030. When I came from Bweengwa, I went to Kanyama. What kind of a country are we with that sort of dilapidation I saw? It is unbelievable. I think the Vision 2030 is a way of running away from your responsibilities.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, after five to ten years, we want to see proper progress. In 2030, maybe some of us might not even be there. Even at my age, I think 2030 is too far and I might not reach it. Therefore, let us have a clear milestone and leave a legacy of having achieved particular milestones towards Vision 2030. 
 
At the moment, we are in an economic detour. We are not on the main road to Vision 2030.

Hon. UPND Members: No.

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, Vision 2030 is a total lie. I cannot buy it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Speaker: Order! The term ‘lie’ is unparliamentary. Please, withdraw it.

Mr Hamududu: Thank you Madam Speaker, it is untrue and unachievable. Looking at the economic sectors, the most important economic sector in our country is agriculture, and you have learnt a lesson from this. Even before the economic shock of 1973, we were dependant on copper. The copper prices plummeted. We had an oil crisis and afterwards, we learnt lessons that when the copper prices were high, we should have invested into the most sustainable sector, which is agriculture, but we did not do that.

At the moment, we are talking about high copper prices and I want to say that the positive economic indicators you are seeing here have very little to do with your economic management. They are externally driven.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: It is basically the high copper prices in China and India that are giving the positive indicators. If they plummet today, things will go wrong in this country.

Hon. UPND Member: That is right.

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, we must not boast of issues that emanate from external economic drivers. The prosperity that you are seeing is simply a forward and backward linkage from the mining sector that results from the boom in China and India. It has nothing, really, to do with your sound economic management.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, agriculture, actually, declined from 2006 to 2007. The main sector that is supposed to be grown in order to sustain the economy for years to come is actually plummeting. The manufacturing sector that draws basically from the agro-related sector is also stagnant. Manufacturing has only increased by 0.1 per cent. This clearly tells those who understand economics that you have your fundamentals wrong. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, the manufacturing sector is where we add value. There is no value addition in this country. What is happening now is simply a depletion of the resources.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, it is high time you re-arranged this. For us in the UPND, we do not believe that you are managing things the way you are supposed to. In fact, you are stealing a lot of things from the UNPD manifesto and you are failing to implement them.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The term ‘stealing’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, I withdraw that word. You are blindly following the UPND manifesto.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, the Vision 2030…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: …and the development plans need to be radical and ambitious because, for a long time, this economy has stagnated. When you read the Vision 2030, to me, that is an essay written by someone in an office. There is no ambition and no radicalism in there that can transform this country.

Mrs Musokotwane: Nothing!

Mr Hamududu: You need to learn something from the Kaunda Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Those people were dreamers and visionaries …

Hon. UNPD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: …and there is enough evidence to show that. You have been in power for twenty years. Show us what you have done?

Madam Speaker, for instance, last year, in my constituency, …

Mr Mwiimbu: Look at them.

Mr Hamududu: … there were no clinics and no schools built. I want to tell you that in most of these primary schools, the classroom capacity has remained stagnant since the MMD came into power and children are crammed in classrooms.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I would like to tell you that this is because of the poor delivery of the Government structure.

We demand an increase in the Constituency Development Fund through which the communities control themselves. In fact, from this angle, we are saying that CDF must be increased to K 1.5 billion …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … as a detour from the poor service delivery in the main Government structure. CDF needs to be increased because the Government is not delivering. For example, I have been to all the ministries in Monze. They have literary no programme to take development to the rural areas. To use Bweengwa Constituency as a case study, the only thing that the Government has done is to pay the meagre salaries of teachers and nurses.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: There is no improvement. Colleagues, you are hon. Members of Parliament for constituencies …

Hon. UPND Member: Absolutely.

Mr Hamududu: …and you know what I am talking about.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: If it is happening in your area, then there is unfairness. We need to distribute our resources equitably. All our people are Zambians.

 Madam Speaker, I would like to tell the House that there are five minimum macro-economic objectives of a Government that must be pursued.

Hon. UPND Member: Do not tell them.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu:  Madam Speaker, the following are the objectives:

(a) acceptable economic growth;

(b) reduction in unemployment, and when I talk of unemployment, I mean the people and the resources; 

(c) achievement of the balance of payment equilibrium vis-à-vis stable exchange rate;

(d) price stability; and

(e) equitable distribution of national income.

Madam Speaker when I analyse these, they are the minimum macro-economic objectives of any serious Government. I want to tell you that you have only scratched on two out of five. You have 40 per cent and below.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, you are still a failing Government …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … and those who read economics will know what I am talking about. These needs must be met. If the economy is growing and you have no distributive capacity, then you are failing. Who is the economy growing for? You say the economy is growing, and yet the people in Kanyama are literary sleeping in water. This is a clear sign that you are under-performing.

Finally Madam Speaker …

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: … I would like to talk a little about the floods. Bweengwa is one of the constituencies that lies on the northern bank of the Kafue Flats. The floods are a blessing and a crisis. However, they are more of a blessing. The only problem is that we do not have the mechanism to mitigate the increased water flow.

The Vice-President: So?

Mr Hamududu: Your Disaster Management Unit is actually a disaster itself.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, the situation of disasters has been exaggerated because the Disaster Management Unit is very slow. I was in Bweengwa when the floods started. The Disaster Management Unit came two weeks after the floods started. They were just issuing statements in the press.

Madam, because of this water that is flowing, the other year, we might have a drought. In Bweengwa Constituency, for example, there was no dam repaired and no single one constructed. That water should have been harvested.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: It is clean water that is flowing right into Mozambique and out. I do not know where it goes, but it becomes salty water. We need to put mechanisms in place to harvest this blessing. The Disaster Management Unit should have moved in to alleviate the increased water flow. In Bweengwa Constituency, we are very disappointed that our people have really suffered because of the slow response.

One of the key elements in disaster management is early response.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Rapid response.

Mr Hamududu: If you do not do that, then heads must roll.

Madam Speaker, with the establishment of the Economic Empowerment Commission, I would like to advise that particular funds like the Youth Fund and Women’s Fund under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services stay put. In most cases, these economic empowerment funds become elitist. Since this Government has no mechanism to deliver services, it is very important that the traditional funds like the Youth Fund and the Women’s Fund remain.

Do not put everything together. Otherwise, the women in Hamangaba, Banakaila and Kaputa will not access these funds because these funds require proposals which our people do not even want to hear about. The Zambians just want money to do their little businesses. Therefore, if you do not do that, you are going to discriminate against the majority of the Zambians. I want to say that in this Budget Address, it is very disheartening to find that the poverty in rural areas has increased from 78 per cent to 80 per cent.

Mrs Musokotwane: Shame!

Mr Hamududu: It is very discouraging for a Government whose majority vote came from the people of the rural areas. There is a need to improve the terms of trade between the rural areas and the people in town. People in rural areas need perpetual subsidies since they get very minimal profits in all the trading arrangements. You mismanaged the Fertilizer Support Programme and some of the farmers have not even paid by the Food Reserve Agency, …

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Hamududu: … and yet you know that these people are disadvantaged. The people in towns are taking the profits from the people in the rural areas. That is why the poverty levels are increasing.

Madam Speaker, finally, let every Zambian begin to smile because this economic boom has been exported from China and India. Therefore, this Government must begin to distribute it to the people in Haamangaba, Monze, Kaputa and everywhere.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I want to articulate the speech by His Excellency, President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, and the good Budget which has been presented my the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Last year, I stood here and told the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that if he does not perform, he should resign. Therefore, I stand here to say that whatever we have seen and whatever he did in 2007, is marvelous.

 Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: When we look at the President’s Speech, it is a speech which touches everybody. It is like rain which falls even on sinners.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, the President’s Speech was very good. Therefore, the combination of the President’s Speech and the Budget Speech of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, makes me feel we are getting somewhere and things are okay.

 Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I would like to reiterate my hon. Brother who was debating on the other side of the House who said that if we appreciate, let us appreciate honourably.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: We are not here to gain marks by criticising. We need to criticise constructively.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I stand here on behalf of the people of Chadiza.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: I would like to tell the House that I disagree with the way the previous speaker issues across, because the people of Chadiza are the ones who have constituted the Government and they have not benefited as much as the people in the Southern Province.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, we should learn to appreciate. Where are the resources from the Disaster Management Unit going at the moment? Are they not going to the Southern Province?

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, when you look at last year’s Budget, where were animals dying and animal re-stocking taking place? Where was that?

 Hon. Government Member:  Southern!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, why do we not appreciate?

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, why do we not appreciate? When we look at the numbers of bore-holes, where have most bore-holes been sunk?

 Hon. Government Members: Southern!

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Let us look at the dams. Where are most of the dams?

Government Members: Southern!

 Laughter

 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

 Mr Mbewe: Ladies and gentlemen, let us learn to appreciate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Chadiza in order to reduce a National Debate to a cocoon of provincial level. Is he in order to reduce my national debate to provincialism? I need your serious ruling.

 Laughter

 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! This Chair has guided before that in this House, hon. Members debate a lot of things in different ways. Only the Front Bench should and must debate within their policies.

 The hon. Member for Chadiza may continue.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I am really upset. On behalf of the MMD, …

 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You debate issues. Do not get upset here.

 Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Smile!

Mr Mbewe smiled.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, here we are debating facts. We are not making assumptions. I come from the Eastern Province and those who have been to the Eastern Province can compare the Great East Road with the Great North Road.

People of the Southern Province, look at the Bottom Road, where was the hon. Minister of Works and Supply?

Government Members: Bottom Road!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Let us look at agriculture in general - even if you get annoyed, I will not get annoyed, but I will tell you the facts.

Laughter

 Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order! Order! Hon. Members, this Chair has guided that you should debate through the Chair. Speak through the Chair. Do not address anybody else in the House, but the Chair.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, I still want to say that the Bottom Road has been allocated some money by this Government.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: This Government has allocated some money for crop marketing.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: When it comes to fertilizer distribution, although we have not done very well in this area, money has been provided for it.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Let me now move on to disaster management in the Southern Province. The Government has set aside some money for this.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, where are the helicopters flying to at the moment?

Hon. Government Members: Southern Province!  Hear, hear!

 Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I think we have done enough for people who are not grateful. This is not right!

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Laughter

 Madam, I would like to put on record the fact that the people of the Eastern Province were denied progress because they never voted wisely, but now they have voted wisely.

Front Bench, where is the money going?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: It is going to the Southern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, let us talk about bridges. Bridges have been constructed in the Southern Province.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, talk of the Chirundu Road, it is in the Southern Province. The Cattle Restocking programme is in the Southern Province. What else do we need? What are we opposing for?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: It is us, the Eastern Province,  who are supposed to oppose the Front Bench.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

The Deputy Minister of North-Western Province (Mr Chipungu): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Motion on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, I bring fraternal greetings from the people of North-Western Province and Rufunsa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: They have, actually, requested me to come convey their congratulations to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a well-read speech. We are in total support of the hon. Minister and this Government in general.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, from the onset, I would like to describe this Budget as realistic and progressive.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: This Budget will certainly improve the living standards of our people, especially that the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was projected at 7 per cent, while the single figure inflation rate will be maintained.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Magande, his Deputy, Hon. Shakafuswa and his entire staff in the Ministry on a job well done.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: I also wish to congratulate the hard working Cabinet team …

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … on a good job that they are doing. They are hard working and I request that they continue working very hard for this nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, let me also thank my colleagues, the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province for their hard work, unity and more importantly, for the support that is accorded to me in the province as Provincial Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, it is not easy when you come from somewhere else to lead, but the people have accepted me whole heartedly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, I wish to adopt the debate by Hon. Mbewe, as mine too.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: He has debated so well and I am sure my brothers from …

Mr Sichilima: Southern.

Mr Chipungu: … the Southern Province will learn to appreciate whatever little somebody does for them. It has taken the entire President of this country to visit the flood victims in the Southern Province. I am sure this is a job well done.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Let us give thanks and praise where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, in supporting this Budget, I would like to dwell on three key areas. I would have actually spoken on all the sectors, because I know that this Government has performed so well in all areas. The key areas are energy, education and health.

Madam Speaker, in the energy sector, the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, Hon. Konga, and the Government in general, has performed very well in the last six years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, in the North-Western Province, we all know that the past administrations neglected this province in terms of the provision of power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: I am talking about the Kaunda and Chiluba Administrations. Now, there is hope that the remaining five districts will be connected to the National Grid.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: We have been told, by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development about the Rural Electrification Programme and Master Plan.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: So far, Madam Speaker, it is only Solwezi and Kasempa which are connected to the National Grid, while the remaining five districts are connected to thermal or generator sets. This has always resulted in erratic power supply due to the constant break downs of the generator-sets and the high cost of procuring fuel.

Madam Speaker, the New Deal Government has put plans in place to connect the remaining districts to the National Grid by developing the min-hydropower stations.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, the Kalene Hydropower Station in Mwinilunga District has been constructed and has already been commissioned, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … while the Kabompo Falls has been advertised to interested developers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: At the moment, Madam Speaker, the Government is sourcing for investors for the Chikata and Chavuma Falls in Kabompo and Chavuma Districts, respectively.

Mrs Musokotwane: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Regina point of jealous, mwali ba Prime Minister imwe.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Microphone.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, is it procedural for the hon. Minister for North-Western Province to discuss the North-Western Province now, under general debate, when he will have a chance to debate the North-Western Province when we start debating the individual provinces.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! It is really not unprocedural because you may remember, in fact, last year, that the Vice-President undertook to speak for the provinces. So, he may cover his province now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to encourage the hon. Members who are interested to come and invest …

Mr Sichilima: We are interested.

Mr Chipungu: … in the mini-hydro power stations in the North-Western Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Do not say you were not told. Do not cry foul, time is now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Do not complain then.

Madam Speaker, the Education Sector has performed very well, especially in the last one year. I want to thank the hon. Minister of Education, Hon. Lungwangwa, the Deputy Minister, Hon. Sinyinda, the Permanent Secretary, Mrs Lillian Kapulu and the entire staff for a job well done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, in my Constituency, I am so proud because a number of basic schools have been renovated and classroom blocks have been constructed. Shikabeta and Chomba Basic Schools that are typical rural schools have had each, dormitories for girls built and solar panels fitted.

Madam Speaker, I have six community schools that have been renovated through the Changes Programme 2, which is a component under the Ministry of Education. Two other community schools have been constructed by Zambezi Resource and I want to announce that the Rufunsa Girls High Technical School is under construction.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: As for those hon. Colleagues who feel that this Government is not doing anything, what about what I have just said? This is, indeed, very good performance by the Government.

Madam Speaker, the situation in the North-Western Province is still the same. Teachers’ houses have been constructed …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: … yes, and classroom blocks have also been renovated. I have this document (raising some papers in the air) and whoever is a ‘doubting Thomas’ can come and have a look at it.

However, to give you an example, let me just read a few facts. In Chavuma District, twenty-four staff houses …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … and nine classroom blocks have been constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, in Zambezi District, eighteen staff houses and eight classroom blocks have been constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: In the same district, twelve staff houses and two classroom blocks have been rehabilitated. In Mufumbwe District, fifteen staff houses and three classroom blocks have been constructed. In Solwezi District, twenty-nine staff houses and eight classroom blocks have been constructed. I can go on and on because the list is endless, but like I said, I have the report that tabulates what has been done so far under this sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, with regard to the health sector, seven rural health centres have been built in one year in Rufunsa Constituency and I am so proud about this.

I would like to say, thank you very much for the road to the Dr …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, what I am just showing that this is a working Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … and I am a working hon. Member of Parliament under this Government. A nursing school is under construction at Mpanshya while the Bundabunda General Hospital is also under construction. With all these developments, how can anyone say that we are not performing?

Madam Speaker, last year, we received assorted equipment in our hospitals in the North-Western Province, including ambulances that were donated by our co-operating partners. This year, the province has received twenty new motor vehicles from the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: I would like to thank the Government for all this. Still on the health sector, we are running a total of thirty-two projects in the province. Among these is the rehabilitation of three district hospitals and six rural health centres.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: We are also constructing six new health posts, expanding a further five others and constructing eleven housing units.

Madam Speaker, the province has started installing solar fridges. A total of sixty-one fridges have so far been received. Similarly, this has greatly improved the cold chain in the province. In addition, new equipment is being delivered to the health centres and district hospitals have also received new laundry and mortuary units.

Madam Speaker, the Province is committed to re-opening the Kalene Nursing School. Hon. Members of Parliament will recall that the school was closed in 1971. Significant progress has been made towards re-opening. So far, rehabilitation of the school has been completed. The Government has delivered furniture for students and teaching staff have been recruited.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Speaker, I would like to end by saying that this is a working Government.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for allowing me to add my voice to this Motion. One hon. Member of Parliament was saying that if we do not do this and that, we should not come back. I want to begin by explaining how we are going to come back to this House.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: This is a Government that means well to all the people of this country. As a Government, it is important that we put our house in order so that we are able to serve the people in this country.

Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about a few areas that are going to make this Government come back. This Government has several projects that are going to be implemented through this Budget as evidence that the Government is performing. In his speech, His Excellency the President talked about sports infrastructure that is supposed to be built by the Government this year. It is evident enough that this Government has already started working on the sports infrastructure. We are working on the Independence Stadium at the moment. This infrastructure is for everyone and the people of Zambia are going to thank this Government for this.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Speaker, in the Budget, there is money that has been allocated for the National Constitutional Conference. This money is not going to be wasted. This money has been allocated for a new Constitution that the whole country is expecting and it will be put to good use. Some people have fears that this money is going to be wasted, but I want to state t nobody in this country would like to come up with a bad constitution because none of us is going to be an hon. Member of Parliament permanently. If we make a bad constitution, it means that when we are no longer hon. Members of this House, the law will catch up with us. It is for this reason that we are going to ensure that we come with a constitution that everybody will appreciate, including our friends who have boycotted the National Constitutional Conference.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Speaker, this is a listening Government and we will make sure that we work on the budget cycle. I believe that the hon. Minister concerned will bring a Bill to this House to change the budget cycle so that monies do not go back to the Treasury, as this has raised concern among our colleagues. If we are able to approve the budget early, we will be able to use all the allocations and no money will be returned to the Treasury. However, when we listen to the Zambian people, we are accused of copying other people’s programmes. We have not copied from anyone. As a listening Government, we follow what the people want.

Like I said earlier, I want to explain how this Government is going to remain in power. No government would like to lose elections. This Government will do everything possible to come back to this Floor.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Some of you will not even be there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Nkhata: That is true. Remember, when I came here during a by-election in 2006, I found thirty plus hon. Members of Parliament from UPND, but, today, there are only twenty-two Members. That explains how the situation will be in this House.

Interruptions

Mr Nkhata: That team will also diminish. Already they are divided.

Hon. Government Member: PF.

Hon. PF Members: Aah!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Speaker, this Government means well for everybody. The Government has outlined how it is going to run the mining sector. We have done the exploration, that is why we are talking about oil in this country. We are going to make sure that everything is in place so that this Government makes enough money to run all the infrastructure that we have in this country. It will come back after doing a good job. This team will be here.

Madam Speaker, we are not sitting idly as a Government. We know that the economy of this country depends mainly on mining and we shall do everything possible to ensure that our friends are invited to join us and in the production of and mining of uranium so that we are able to make enough money.

Interruptions

Mr Nkhata: We are going to do because we know that it will make the economy of our country strong.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: We are going to do all that is required for our people in this country. With time, they will support this Government and we shall come back.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Oil!

Mr Nkhata: Yes, this Government has discovered some oil deposits and this is not a disputable issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Oil, you can check fuel!

Mr Nkhata: Do not worry.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Deputy Minister, you face the Chair then you will not attract all the hecklings.

Laughter

Mr Nkhata: Madam Speaker, we have done our part and what is remains is just support from this House so that when the Petroleum Act comes here, the House will support it. Then all the arguments about the Southern, Eastern Province and so on and so forth, will come to an end because we will have enough resources for this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Speaker, I know that we have a problem with the road network. As such, this Government has put measures in place and has come up with programmes for road rehabilitation in our country. We shall make sure this is done so that tomorrow, our friends will have no campaign stories against this Government. They will have nothing to talk about because the Government will do everything possible.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Nkhata: Including those who are saying question. We are busy working in their constituencies so that the people in their constituencies get convinced that this is a working Government and tomorrow, they will support us.

Dr Katema: Where?

Mr Nkhata: In Roan Constituency.

Mr Kambwili: Aah!

Mr Nkhata: It is in Roan Constituency through the health department that we are going to open a nursing school. What are you talking about? That is why the other day, I said you should learn to appreciate when we have done a good number of jobs in your constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, this Government is doing everything possible to give the people the services they require. We should not just speak so that the people outside know that you are able to criticise the Government. We are a working Government. If you have nothing to debate, just keep quiet.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Withdraw that statement.

Mr Nkhata: I withdraw it Madam.

This Government has enough programmes this year as stated in the Budget Address. We will not fail, but will make sure that everything in the Budget is done.

Madam Speaker, on the health sector, there is a number of health infrastructure to be put up that has been outlined in this Budget. A lot of clinics and hospitals are going to be constructed. Therefore, I do not see why our brothers and sisters are saying that this Government is not going to fulfill its promises.

In the education sector, you can see how the hon. Minister of Education has outlined a number of schools that are going to be constructed this year. Unlike the previous Government that never thought of building schools, this Government means well.

Dr Katema: Where?

Mr Nkhata: In your constituencies. With this, I feel that the Government has not failed, but is a working Government.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo) (on behalf the Vice-President (Mr R. B Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1859 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 30th January, 2008

 

 

 

 

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

DEATHS OF WOMEN IN CHIENGE FROM 2006 TO 2006

69. Dr Kalumba (Chienge) asked the Minister of Health how many women died in health centres in Chienge District from 2000 to 2006 due to the following:

(a) complications of pregnancy;

(b) cholera or dysentery; and

(c) immune-deficiency related illnesses.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, deaths of women in Chienge District Health Centres due to complications of pregnancies are as follows:

Year   2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

No. of    17 18 2 1 1 1 0
Deaths due
to Pregnancy

Sir, deaths in the Chienge District Health facilities due to cholera and dysentery are as follows:

 Year  2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
No. of    40 3 0 2 0 0 1
Deaths due
to Cholera 
Dysentery    0 53 0 2 1 0 1

Mr Speaker, deaths due to immune deficiency related illnesses in health facilities in Chienge are as follows:

Year   2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
No. of   2 1 1 5 2 2 2
Deaths

I thank you, Sir.