Debates- Thursday, 7th August, 2008

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 7th August, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZAMBIA’S TOURISM EARNINGS FROM 2005 TO 2007

249. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how much revenue Zambia earned from the tourism industry from 2005 to 2007, year by year;

(b) how much the Government spent on advertising the country’s tourism potential through magazines and billboards in Europe and America in the period at (a) above; and

(c) how the country’s revenues from tourism compare with the other countries in the sub-region.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, the revenue that Zambia earned from the tourism industry in the period at (a) above is as follows:

Year                   2005                                2006                               2007

Revenue       K654,392,800,000       K636,385,050,000         K839,138,000,000
Earned
 
Madam Speaker, with regard to part (b) of the question, the money spent on advertising in Europe and America is as follows:

Year                                    Amount Spent 
                                     Europe                 America

2005                        K40,445,000             K66,150,000

2006                       K61,345,026                     Nil

2007                               Nil                              Nil

Madam Speaker, regarding the last part of the question, for other countries in the sub-region, apart from Zambia, only figures for 2005 are available in the 2007 edition of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation’s Compendium of Tourism Statistics and they are stated in United States Dollars. The figures are follows:

                           In US$ million (000,000)

Country                                  2005           Rank        2006            Rank          2007        Rank

Zambia                                   164.8             6           176.7              -              188            -

Angola                                      88               8               -                  -                  -             -

Botswana                               563               3               -                 -                   -             -                 

Democratic                                -                 -                -                 -                    -            -
Republic of Congo

Lesotho                                     30              10              -                 -                    -            -

Malawi                                      23               11              -                 -                    -            -

Mauritius                                  871               2               -                  -                    -           -

Mozambique                            130               7                -                  -                    -           -

Namibia                                    348               4                -                  -                    -           -

Seychelles                              192                5                -                  -                    -           - 

South Africa                         7,335                1               -                   -                    -           - 

Swaziland                                69                  9               -                   -                    -           -

Tanzania                                    -                    -               -                   -                    -           -

Zimbabwe                                  -                   -                -                   -                    -           -

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chilembo left the microphone on.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Switch off your microphone.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer he has provided, but can he confirm if the diminished levels of advertisement expenditure as well as the situation prevailing in some of our neighbouring countries are the reasons we have an influx of tourists in Livingstone? Would he also confirm that all these tourists actually pay for their holiday packages and the money remains in Zambia.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I am glad to report to the House that the Ministry has embarked on very serious measures in advertising Zambia as a tourist destination. Hon. Members will recall that not too long ago, Parliament passed a Zambia Tourism Board Act which aims at ensuring that we have a board that concentrates its efforts on tourism advertising only and not tourism development which is taken care of by the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources under the Tourism and Hospitality Act.

Therefore, measures have been taken to address the concerns the hon. Member has mentioned and I can report that there are indicators that, in fact, there is an increase of tourists visiting the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Signs are there to show that Zambia’s tourism industry is definitely getting better. We are developing infrastructure in Livingstone and Kasama airports as well as road infrastructure in the Northern Province. With all this infrastructure development, advertising and new legislation, which was passed by this Parliament, we believe that Zambia will definitely be a very competitive tourist destination.

I thank you, Madam.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): How much commission do we get from countries that are advertising their tourism using our Victoria Falls such as Ghana and South Africa?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like to confirm here that we do not get any commission. However, we benefit from the advertisements because tourists come to the Victoria Falls.

I thank you Madam.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) May I find out how Zambia is benefiting from the packaged tours paid by the tourists abroad for lodging and tours in Zambia? How does this benefit Zambia because it appears Zambia does not benefit anything.

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, some of the money the tourists pay for their packages in foreign countries is remitted to …

Mr Kambwili: Some!

Mr Kaingu: Yes, some of the money remains because people who advertise those packages get paid also. Otherwise, the money meant for Zambia is remitted.

However, from our investigations, it was discovered that there are some operators who have been cheating and we are still investigating. If we find any wanting, the law will take its course.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister will recall that a few years ago, Livingstone was a ghost town while the Victoria Falls was extremely vibrant. He is also surely aware that Livingstone has come up because tourists have been avoiding Zimbabwe because of their fears about the rule of law. How much does he expect Zambian tourism to fall once the Zimbabwean situation normalises?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, we do not have to wait for the demise of Zimbabwe for tourism to grow in Zambia. Mechanisms have been put in place for us to advertise Zambia and improve the infrastructure at the airports. Tourists come because Zambia is the latest attractive destination in tourism.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government has any plans to peg different prices for tourists from other countries from those for Zambians to enable Zambians access these tourist attractions as well.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, it is true, modalities are being worked out for us to promote tourism. We are negotiating with our operators to see if we can have cheaper rates for Zambians.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is not a failure on the part of the Government to advertise Zambia’s tourist attractions that Botswana, which has the same weather patterns and animals as Zambia should record K563 million while Zambia only records K164 million revenue?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Roan for his support. We will bring the budget this year to try and increase our marketing budget so that we promote Zambia more. From the figures that we have given, it can be seen that if there was more advertising, the revenue would also improve. Therefore, when we bring our budget, please support it.

I thank you, Madam.

NATIONAL OPTIC FIBRE CABLE

240  Mwangala (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) when the National Optic Fibre Cable would be extended to Mongu peri-urban areas such as Muoyo Royal Establishment, which is 40 kilometres away; and

(b) whether there were plans to establish a post office at Muoyo Royal Establishment Village to service the high population of about 10,000 people and vast infrastructure which include the Royal Palace and Government institutions.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, Zamtel’s National Optic Fibre Cable is targeted at reaching provincial headquarters only. According to Zamtel’s phased schedule, the company is expected to reach and terminate the cable at the Mongu landing point around November, 2009. The company intends to cover a wide area in Mongu District for the provision of communication services. For this to be achieved a Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) Wireless Local Loop will be deployed. It is expected that the same will cover the Muoyo Royal Establishment.

It is the intention of the Government to provide post offices throughout the country including Muoyo Royal Palace Village. However, due to limited financial resources, Zampost has no immediate plans to establish a post office at Muoyo Royal Palace.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the National Optic Fibre Cable is very costly to lay. I suppose that is the reason the Government is only intending to lay it up to provincial headquarters. Could the hon. Minister update this House and the nation, through this House, on what has happened to the money that was supposed to have been spent through the New Partnership for Africa’s Development (NEPAD) Optic Fibre Connection for the continent which was meant for Zambia, but has not come. What happened to that money because it could have allowed us to go to Muoyo like the hon. Member has asked. Could the hon. Minister kindly inform us on that matter.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, I realise that the question asked by the hon. Member is a new one. All the same, it is important to establish facts. The NEPAD programme, which is a continental initiative and is anchored in the Kigali Protocol, is supposed to provide the optic fibre backbone for the continent where member states to that protocol are supposed to contribute, if I am not mistaken, a sum of a million dollars.

Zambia is also discussing within another framework for optic fibre linkages to the under sea cable to connect us to the rest of the world through the Easy Project on the eastern coast of the continent. We have already contributed an amount close to US$800,000 out of a total of US$5 million required. It is because of this that we have been questioning the two initiatives on why Zambia should be paying amounts towards two initiatives that are supposed to achieve the same objective. At the last meeting of SADC member states, Zambia put up a very strong case about reviewing the NEPAD initiative if it was going to be a replication of the Easy Project. We are on target, however, in terms of putting up the optic fibre backbone to provincial centres at a cost of US$38 million.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why Zambia Electricity Supply Company (ZESCO) and Zambia Telecommunications (ZAMTEL) opted to install separate optical fibre cables when they were supposed to combine, especially that ZAMTEL has no clean balance sheets, so to say.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, currently, we have an optic fibre cable laid by ZESCO from Sesheke through Livingstone to the Copperbelt and Lumwana that is about 1,750 kilometres. The Copperbelt Energy Corporation also has optic fibre laid in all the Copperbelt towns with about 500 metres. The whole country in total has 2,325 kilometres of optic fibre.

We appreciate that the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development yesterday tried to explain to this House that there was a duplication of efforts. ZESCO has already laid the fibre and ZAMTEL is also supposed to do the same. They have had discussions and a technical team has been put in place to discuss whether there was anything in terms of technical capacity that was preventing one or the other company from doing this in totality. They have indicated to me that between the main line, Livingstone to the Copperbelt, it is in our interest to have at least another cable redundant just in case of problems with the other cable, but all the same, ZAMTEL has now taken the lead. That is ZAMTEL has initiated the laying of the cable to the Northern Province. They will also work on the line from the North-Western Province via Mongu back to Lusaka so that we can cover the central parts of the country and the Eastern Province as well. We have taken that initiative …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: … to ensure that we do not spend money where it should not be spent. ZAMTEL will now take the lead, but it is important that we have a redundant cable on the busy line from Livingstone up to the mines just in case something happens to the other line.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that Zambia has already contributed US$800,000 towards the easy project. I would like to find out in which budget this US$800,000 was appropriated by Parliament. Or is it that Government has used the US$500,000 which was meant for the Kigali Protocol towards the easy project?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, ZAMTEL is a company that is, on behalf of Zambia, discussing these issues at a continental level. It leads in discussions on our optic fibre issues. It is also the company that has made this contribution of US$800,000 and not the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. The total cost from our member states contribution to the Easy Project is US$5 million and so far, just under US$800,000 has been contributed.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

COMMENCEMENT OF RURAL ELECTRIFICATION IN KATOMBOLA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

251. Mrs Musokotwane asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the Rural Electrification Programme will commence in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Madam Speaker, thank you for the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Konga: My sincere apologies to the hon. Member for Katombola.

Madam Speaker, the response is that the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), which has just been completed, has identified about 1,217 rural growth centres (RGCs) countrywide that require electrification. These centres have been grouped into 180 project packages and listed in order of priority. In drawing up the order of priority, the factors taken into account include the projected power demand, the method of electrification and the financial and economic indicators such as the internal rate of return. Taking these factors into account, the Rural Electrification Master Plan provides a prioritised list of the project packages for each province.

According to this ranking, the rural growth centres that coincide with Katombola Parliamentary Constituency in the Kazungula District appear in a project package ranked No. 15 out of the twenty-one project packages drawn for the Southern Province. The estimated cost of implementing this project package is US$5.5 million or K19.25 billion at the current exchange rate. According to the order of priority, the implementation of the project package in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency will start as early as 2026.

Interruptions

Mr Konga: The House should note, Madam Speaker, that the Government has now established that the whole Rural Electrification Programme for the period 2008 to 2030 will cost a total sum of US$1.1 billion which is approximately K3.8 trillion which translates into an annual expenditure of US$50 million or K175 billion over the same period. The challenge before us as a nation, therefore, is to mobilise these financial resources so that the dream of electricity for all rural areas by the year 2030 can be realised.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister makes me so angry. I do not know where to start from.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Do not get angry, honourable.

Mrs Musokotwane: Can the hon. Minister, Madam Speaker, tell this House how the people of Katombola Parliamentary Constituency are going to develop without electricity which he knows very well is essential at this moment? The hon. Minister has informed the House that he is going to electrify Katombola Parliamentary Constituency in 2026. Now what is going to happen to the constituency between now and 2026 because we are in a hurry to develop, Mr Konga?

Hon. Opposition Member: No vigour.

Laughter.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that follow up question from the hon. Member for Katombola. I would like to assure the hon. Member not to be worried at all.

Interruptions

Mr Konga: I would be angry for that matter.

She asked when this project would be done under the Rural Electrification Master Plan. The response I have given is for the programmes packaged under the Rural Electrification Master Plan. However, for the development of private investment, there is a line nearby, which the private sector can tap from for immediate development.

Hon Government Member: Tell them, Minister!

Mr Konga: The Government programme is orderly. If you recall, last year, we gave out forms countrywide and based on the internal and economic rate of returns at the various growth centres, Katombola has been earmarked for connection in 2026.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, if the hon. Minister says that under this programme, Katombola will be electrified in 2026, would he indicate to this House which rural area will be electrified first and in which year?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, last year, the Government, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, distributed programmes to all hon. Members for rural electrification in their constituencies. As I have indicated in my response, these projects have been categorised by province so that all the provinces can have projects commence in each particular year. I will, at an appropriate time, bring to the House the ranking of the plan for the whole country because off-the-cuff, I cannot remember everything.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out who the contractor for rural electrification is. If it is who I think it is, that is, ZESCO, why has this Government not appointed someone else or set up a separate entity altogether to look for funding to accelerate this project because ZESCO is already overloaded?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, it is not correct that the Government has chosen ZESCO as the contractor for rural electrification. You will recall, hon. Members of the House, that an Act was passed in this House to establish the Rural Electrification Authority. This is the institution which is mandated by the Government to undertake all rural electrification projects. At an appropriate time, funds permitting, the Rural Electrification Authority will tender the projects for the private sector to participate. These projects will not be executed by ZESCO, but by the private sector. However, presently, the Rural Electrification Authority, with the support of the Government, is mobilising resources. As I have indicated in my response, over K175 billion is to be spent annually. Once this money is available, projects will be executed by the Rural Electrification Authority.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the position of the Ministry of Energy and Water Development on climate change, particularly, global warming. If electricity is not supplied, many areas will be deforested soon. Electricity supply will reduce charcoal burning and firewood collection for the purpose of cooking in homes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for a very intelligent question.

The Government is extremely concerned about the effects of climate change and the resultant global warming and its institutions will endeavor to address this issue to mitigate these changes. To this effect, various options for providing energy in the country are being considered and will be implemented. Among these is not only the provision of conventional hydro-electricity, but also to tap into other forms of energy such as solar, bio-mass and, indeed, the use of other products such as bio-energy crops. The combination of all these will subsequently mitigate the cutting down of timber for firewood.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out when the Master Plan, which has now been approved, will be made available to hon. Members of Parliament and other stakeholders.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the Master Plan will be made available to hon. Members of the House very soon. I cannot confirm the date as there are a few logistics to be considered, but it will be done very soon.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF MATUMBO BRIDGE

252. Mr I Banda asked the Minister of Works and Supply:
 
 (a) when construction of the bridge across the Luangwa River on the  Chama/Matumbo Road will commence where some components of the  bridge have been lying idle at the site since 2006; and

 (b) what the estimated cost of the bridge was.

The Deputy Minister of Work and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, regarding question (a), the Bailey Bridge components were delivered to the Matumbo Bridge construction site following the completion of the Nkalamabwe Bridge in Chongwe District. This was done prior to the signing of the Matumbo Bridge construction contract as the Bailey bridge components were needed for the construction of the Matumbo Bridge. The components have been at the Matumbo Bridge construction site in readiness for the construction of the Bridge.

Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that the design for the construction of the Bridge has been completed. The contractor, China Henan, will begin mobilising to the site before the end of August, 2008, as the equipment and personnel intended to be deployed to the site will be from the Chembe Bridge site. The Chembe Bridge construction is expected to be completed by 28th August, 2008.

Regarding part (b) of the question, the total estimated cost of the bridge is K10.14 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Before I call on the hon. Member to ask a supplementary question, I would like to advise the House that we consult quietly because it is not easy to follow what is being said when people are speaking from both sides of the House.

Mr I Banda: Madam Speaker, while the Government is preparing to start the construction of the Bridge, I would like to find out when the Government will start the rehabilitation of the Chama-Matumbo Road?

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, that is a different question. We are responding to the question about the Matumbo Bridge.

Laughter

Mr Ndalamei: I thank you, Madam.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why components for the bridge were taken to the site before the final design. Is it normal practice to do so?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker, this is an old project. The initial approach on this project was a composite bridge, but this did not come to fruition. As a result, a tender for a concrete bridge was sought and that is the design. The components that are there were taken from the Nkalamabwe Bridge as stated in the answer. However, that is not the case now.

I thank you, Madam.

Mrs J. M. Phiri (Munali): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what type of material was used to make these components because from my knowledge if it is not iron, then I am sure it is corroded by now. Can he tell us what type of design it is?

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I cannot talk about the specifications, but these are composites and they have not rusted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why it takes too long for the contractors who have been given a contract to move on site.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, that is quite a wide question. However, normally after conclusion of the contract, a contractor is given at least four weeks to mobilise. The contractor is taken to task if he does not mobilise within that time. In this particular case, China Henan was among the suspended contractors and has just been reinstated in the last two weeks or so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

FINANCIAL STATUS OF ZAMTEL

253. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) what the current financial status of Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited  (Zamtel) was; and

(b) how much money Zamtel paid to the Government as dividends from 2002 to 2007.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that from 2001 to 2006, Zamtel has been registering marginal profits. However, in 2007, it registered a loss of about K125 billion. This negative financial status arises mainly from debt owed by various institutions, including the Government and due to unfavourable exchange rate fluctuations.

With regard to part (b) of the question, Zamtel declared dividends of K2 billion as dividend for each year from 2002 to 2004, but due to liquidity problems, the dividends were not paid. Nonetheless, Zamtel managed to pay K650 million as dividend to the Government in 2006.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, the hon. Deputy Speaker has informed this House that Zamtel made a loss of K125 billion in 2007. Furthermore, Zamtel has continued borrowing. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how viable this company is.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, the Government’s intention in setting up parastatals is always to benefit all Zambians. The intention was such that, parastatal companies such as Zamtel would be able to pay due dividends to the Government so that the money is used to give services to the 12 million Zambians and not just Zamtel workers. It is for this reason that, as a Ministry and Government, we are very concerned about the financial situation of Zamtel.

Madam, as I mentioned in this House just two days ago, currently, Zamtel has a debt of close to K400 billion. We have taken steps, and just a few weeks ago, I put together an inter-ministerial technical team which involves Zamtel and Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) to come up with ways and means in which we can give support to Zamtel so that it does not fall under. This technical team has up to the end of this month to provide us with a road map on how we should proceed, as a Government. There are a number of options on the table from the ultimate option which is full liquidation, to full privatisation, finding an equity strategic partner, partial privatisation and many others. Therefore, we are considering quite a number of options on the table so that we can try and give Zamtel an equilibrium status.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, from the explanation given by the hon. Minister, it is clear that the Government is grappling to make Zamtel continue its operations. Has the Government considered privatising Zamtel as one of the options?

Mr V. Mwale: Muzayambana na ma Zambians mukayamba vogulisa.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament was listening, she will have heard that I said we have a number of options that we are considering including privatisation. As a Government, we have been asked many times why we should not just recapitalise Zamtel as shareholders. However, as I have already said, it has a debt of K400 billion and we believe that the problem is not so much recaptalisation, but totally changing its business model.

We need to put in place new organisational structures and business processes. We need conduct business in a totally different way because it is really surprising that at this time, when the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) sector is doing very well Zamtel should be in this position. Therefore, we believe that there is potential for business, but it just needs a whole new business model for it to be viable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. K. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, admittedly, there has been a high turnover of chief executives at Zamtel. Would this be one of the reasons for the losses at Zamtel?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I have said that I have put in place a technical team to look into all the problems at Zamtel in totality, including the capacity at the institution at both the managerial level and below as well as the financial status of the institution. This is in an effort to come up with an integrated or a wholesome solution to Zamtel. We do not want to do what we have done in the past such as just changing management. Piece meal solutions have not worked and we cannot continue with the status quo. It is very clear that something needs to change and it has to be a wholesome solution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister be in a position to tell the nation how much the company owes other institutions?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, we should not go round in circles.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, maybe, it will assist the hon. Member if I could break down the K400 billion that is owed. Madam, about K10 billion is local debt, a sum of K23.6 billion is owed to foreign creditors, there is a statutory debt of about K277 billion and another K124 billion in loans to financial institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that a committee, which will look into the management and other problems that Zamtel is facing has been constituted. Instead of incurring extra costs and adding more liabilities to the company, is it not prudent for the Government to constitute a team of competent consultants to look into the management and other problems that the company may be experiencing?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, if it is an issue of expense, I think that going the consultancy way would be more expensive. If it is an issue of competency, I think that the inter-ministerial team comprising the Ministry of Communications and Transport, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Justice, the Zambia Development Agency and Zamtel will be able to do the work.

You will also recall that in the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry under the Private Sector Development Reform Programme, there is a working group under Information and Communications Technology (ICT), that is providing the expertise to this technical team. Therefore, in terms of competency, I think that we have a good team in place that has the institutional memory of Government operations as well as Zamtel operations. Further, this team, which has been given the terms of references, has the mandate to report to the inter-ministerial team comprising the ministries, as I mentioned earlier, by 31st August, 2008. They have to report back and recommend at least one or two options that we should consider, as a Government, because we laid the terms of reference and options on the table.

Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that we are taking the matter of Zamtel very seriously. It is an issue we would like to deal with as soon as possible. As I stated earlier, this is a parastatal. Therefore, it is not just about the 2,700 workers at Zamtel, but about the 12 million Zambians being able to benefit from a Government enterprise. However, if the Government is not doing well in that enterprise, we cannot just maintain the status quo. We have to find other options.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Women power!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, who stated that the situation at Zamtel is regarded seriously, whether Government departments, including her Ministry owe Zamtel any money and if there are any outstanding bills owed to Zamtel, when do the Government departments intend to settle them in full?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I think that was Question 217 on the Order Paper of just two days ago. We gave an answer on the amounts owed by the various Government Ministries, including the private sector and the steps that the Government has taken to try to liquidate this debt through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, for Government Ministries. However, Zamtel, as an institution, has put in place a Debt Collector Task Force to follow up on corporate institutions that owe it monies.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister informed the House, a few minutes ago, that Zamtel paid US$ 800,000 towards the Easy Project Fibre Cable. Now, she is telling the House that Zamtel is not in a good liquid problem. Where did they get the US$800,000 to pay?

Hon. V. Mwale: Liquid what? Ndiye vichani ivo?

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member would like to confirmation that Zamtel is in a difficult financial position. However, it has the capability to borrow and a programme of operations where it determines its cash flow and operating expenses. This money was paid to the Easy Go Project about two years ago, in 2006. If you look at the financial statements, 2006 is one year in which Zamtel made a profit. Therefore, it is not surprising that this money was paid.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport must be commended for the spirited steps that she is taking in addressing the issues at Zamtel. However, would the hon. Minister and the Government recognise that the ills that beset Zamtel are not only limited to Zamtel, but also to all the parastatal companies in this country. In this vein, would the hon. Minister also indicate whether she is taking similar measures regarding another parastatal in her Ministry, Zampost, which is also in a sick state?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to appreciate the kind sentiments by the hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: However, I would also like to remind the House and the nation at large that since 1991, this Government has been very consistent in terms of its economic policy ...

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: … that the expansion of the economy be supported by the Government, but be private sector driven.

Madam Speaker, it is in this regard that we believe that business is the business of business. We realise that we have had a number of parastatals, which have not been doing very well for quite a while. If the golden eggs such the mines are anything to go by, it shows that this Government is prepared to make the hard decision when it sees that we are not benefiting from some of our own enterprises.

Therefore, in the Ministry of Communications and Transport, we are looking at all the statutory bodies that belong to the Ministry, not just Zamtel, but also Zampost because the purpose of putting up these enterprises by the Government was to benefit the nation at large. However, if the facts have changed and they are not doing well, this Government is prepared to make the right decisions by engaging the private sector so that we can actually benefit from these institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm to this august House that the issue of the Gateway is amongst the terms of references?

Madam Speaker, revenues earned from the Gateway have absolutely nothing to do with Zamtel. I think that Zambians must invest that money very judiciously. May the hon. Minister confirm if part of the terms of references are to look at whether the Gateway should remain at Zamtel or spread among operators, or, indeed, some Zambians run it outside Zamtel so that Zambians can benefit rather than use the revenues from the Gateway to simply pay salaries.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that emphatic manner in which he asked his question.

Laughter

Ms Siliya:  Madam Speaker, I wish to repeat that the whole purpose of the Government putting up these enterprises is not just to benefit exactly 2,740 workers in Zamtel, but also for all the 12 million Zambians. This is why when a company is not paying dividends to the Government, it is of great concern to all of us. We have been consulting over Zamtel for quite a while, including the Gateway and this is why when I set up the technical team to review the operations of Zamtel and in which manner we should proceed, it definitely includes the Gateway. I said we want to provide a wholesome solution and not piecemeal solution.

Madam Speaker, as a Government, we have constantly said that we are not going to make a decision in a hurry about the Gateway, but consult widely. After all the consultations that have taken place, we have reached a point where we must make a decision whether to cross the bridge or not. This is why we have now asked the technical team to give the final recommendation before we make the decision that may need to be made at this point.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

CORRUPTION CASES IN KAOMA DISTRICT

254. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many corruption cases had been dealt with in Kaoma District involving the following:

(i) CDF for Luampa Parliamentary Constituency;

(ii) Luampa Basic School;

(iii) Lui Basic School;

(iv) Mbanyulu Basic School; and

(v) Luampa Market; and

(b) when the individuals at (a) above who were alleged to have misappropriated public funds from 2004 to 2006 would be arrested.

The Deputy Minster of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Anti-Corruption Commission received a report alleging abuse of authority of office by Luampa Parliamentary Constituency officials concerning the disbursement of K42.7 million Constituency Development Fund (CDF) meant for projects at Luampa Basic School, Lui Basic School, Mbanyulu Basic School and Luampa Market.

The Commission instituted investigations into the allegations and inquiries conducted did not deduce evidence of misappropriation of the money.

Madam Speaker, suspects cannot be arrested because no evidence was deduced and the case has since been closed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A BRIDGE ACROSS THE PAMPASHE RIVER FROM CHIEF MUSHOTA’S AREA TO CHIEF CHAMA’S AREA

255. Dr Chishya (Pampbashe) asked Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when a bridge would be constructed across the Pambashe River from Chief Mushota’ area to Chief Chama’s area in Pambashe Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) when the Kawambwa/Luwingu Road would be graded.

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform this House that there are no immediate plans to construct a bridge across the Pambashe Causeway to link Chembe and Mushota’s area. However, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives in conjunction with the Road Development Agency, plans are underway to rehabilitate the existing road from Mushota to Chembe through Chibote under the rehabilitation of the Farming Blocks Programme.

Madam Speaker, the Kawambwa/Luwingu Road (RD74) is in two parts, that is, the Kawambwa/Munganga Road and Munganga/Luwingu Road. The Kawambwa/Munganga Road has been awarded to AMC Contractors for grading, drainage repair and spot re-gravelling at a contract sum of K6.9 billion. However, the works for the Munganga/Luwingu Road have not yet been procured. The works for the road between Mushota and Luwingu have also not been procured as it as it requires reconstruction and it has not been worked on in a long time. Consideration for the Munganga/Luwingu Road will be made in the 2009 Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

VANDALISM AND LOOTING OF THE RAILS AND SLEEPERS OF THE RAILWAY LINE BETWEEN NDOLA AND LUANSHYA

256. Mrs J. M. N. Phiri (Luanshya) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) who vandalised and looted the rails and sleepers of the railway line between Ndola and Luanshya;

(b) whether the culprits at (a) above had been prosecuted; and

(c) when the railway line at (a) above would be rehabilitated.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya wants to know who vandalised and looted the rails and sleepers of the railway line between Ndola and Luanshya.

Hon. Members: Kambwili!

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, (b), …

Laughter

Mr Mubika: (b), whether the culprits at (a) above had been prosecuted …

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Mubika: (c), when the railway line at (a) above would be rehabilitated.

Interruptions

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Ndola/Luanshya Railway Line, which is about 37 km long, was in a disused condition for a long time (from 2001) due to low traffic offering. Unknown people …

Hon. Members: Known!

Mr Mubika: Unknown people vandalised and stole rails and wooden sleepers from the railway line in 2006.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Mubika: Zambia Railways Limited recovered rails from a track length of 21 km and moved them to Chipata for the Chipata/Mchinji Railway Project.

Interruptions

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the House may wish to know that no arrests were made and therefore no one was prosecuted.

Interruptions

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that there is an increase of both passenger and freight traffic on the Copperbelt due to increased mining activities. To this effect, the Government will continue to plan for the rehabilitation and construction of railway infrastructure to provide cheap transport.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs J. M. N. Phiri: Madam Speaker, each time I stand here, I ask the same question, but it is derailed and not answered properly. I am disappointed.

Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister give us the right answer for part (a) and (b) of the question.

Laughter

Mr Mubika: Madam, the answer that we have given is the correct one. If the hon. Members has any information to the contrary, she is free to come to our office to share it and we will arrest the culprit.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, public property such as railway sleepers and rail line – admittedly the hon. Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport was smiling and laughing knowing that the thief who stole these rail sleepers is in our midst.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Can he be brave enough to have him reported to the Police so that he can be arrested.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Member who is trying to ask a question is a very senior Member of the House, but he has used a number of words that are unacceptable in the House. He has not asked a question, but made an allegation in the House which becomes difficult for the Chair to ask the hon. Minister to respond to it.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, it is alleged …

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: … that the culprit or the thief who stole …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, currently, because of economic activities on the Copperbelt, there is too much pressure on our roads. Therefore, I feel it is not enough for the hon. Minister to say that the Government is considering rehabilitating the railway lines.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chanda: When are they going to carry that out?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! Order!

The Chair hears a lot of things and sometimes can choose to have the House continue with its business, but when you shout that which is unacceptable, it poses a serious challenge to the Chair.

The House must keep its order. The Chair will not accept hon. Members shouting at each other across the Floor. That is why we have a set procedures in this House. You may tempt the Chair to name you if you continue with that kind of behaviour.

The hon. Member for Kankoyo may continue.

Mr Kankoyo: Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is that there is a lot of pressure exerted on our roads and it is not enough for the hon. Minister to say the that Government is considering rehabilitating the railway lines. I would like to find out when exactly they are going to carry out those projects to relieve our roads.

Mr Kambwili was still talking after the Chair’s guidance.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Kambwili, you are not ready to remain in the House for now. Can I ask you to go and calm down outside until after the break?

Mr Kambwili stood up to leave the Assembly Chamber.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, …

Mr Kambwili on his way out of the Assembly Chamber stopped to talk to Mr D. Mwila.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can you leave the Chamber, please?

Mr Kambwili left the Assembly Chamber.

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, let me just reiterate here that the answer we have given to this question is correct. That is, we are not aware of the people who stole these sleepers, and that is why no one has been arrested and as such, no one was prosecuted.

The answer we have given regarding when we are going to start constructing or actually engaging anybody who is going to construct these new railway lines is also correct because this is a long process. You have to appreciate that it is just a few years ago that this country was experiencing serious economic problems and we saw no economic activity on the Copperbelt. There was no investment in the rail infrastructure which is close to just over a 100 years old. We are now trying to find the money to invest in this rail infrastructure so that it can actually meet the demands that we are experiencing now because of the economic growth that the whole country as a whole is experiencing and in particular, on the Copperbelt.

Madam Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we are making frantic efforts, as a Government, to liaise with my colleague in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning t as well as all the other private sector members who have shown interest in working with us in refurbishing and constructing railway lines.

Madam Speaker, on the Copperbelt, there was a whole network of inter-mine railway, but this is no more. We need to do something about it, as a Government, the owners of this infrastructure. It might not happen this year or next year, but it does not mean that we are not making any frantic efforts. With the mines back in place, we realise that it is the inter-Copperbelt railway line that is going to provide efficient and cheap transport for the movement of cargo. It will not just be for passengers, but particularly of heavy cargo that we anticipate will be transported within the Copperbelt and link into the main railway that is operated by the Railway Systems of Zambia and, of course, the Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA) en route to the coast.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROVISION OF WATER TRANSPORT

257. Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when the following Islands on the Lake Bangweulu would be provided with dependable water transport:

(i) Mbabala;
(ii) Chishi; and
(iii) Chilubi.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Communications and Transport provides water transport services to the Islands of Mbabala, Chishi and Chilubi through the Bangweulu Water Transport Board which runs the Friendship Barge.

The Barge was donated to the Zambian Government by the Chinese Government after the construction of the Tuta Bridge. The Barge recently had its engines replaced which led to the improvement in the services and is fully operational.

The Government is rehabilitating the Zambia Postal Services (ZAMPOST) Boat as part of the services being offered to the islands. To this effect, two caterpillar engines have been purchased to replace the old engines on the Post Boat.

It is the Ministry’s view that once the Post Boat is rehabilitated, the services to these islands will be improved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia in the year 2005 allocated K1 billion towards the construction of a new vessel. I would like to find out from the Minister what happened to the K1 billion which was allocated towards the construction of a new vessel. Of late, we have not heard anything.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, yes, I do accede that in the Budget there was that amount, but it was heavily under budgeted for the type of barge that we are looking for. For a place like Lake Bangweulu and Lake Tanganyika where we need something like 245 horse power engines and something like seventy to a 100 tonne-boat, it is close to K10 billion required to have a vessel built.

Therefore, even though this money was reflected in the Budget, it is unfortunate because it was totally under budgeted. We will make all frantic efforts this year, in liaison with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, to see what we can do to provide reliable transport in water areas.

I know that sometimes we have received requests in the Ministry where people just ask us to provide engines somewhere in the range of about K20 million to K45 million saying that they can work with their Members of Parliament to buy banana boats and we just provide them engines. However, we know that even banana boats are not suitable on some of these water bodies, especially in the Northern Province where we have huge expanse of water on Lakes Bangweulu and Tanganyika. We just have to find the money and budget adequately. There was K1 billion in 2005, but it was insufficient for a vessel of around 70 tonnes that is required on that lake.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushili: Madam Speaker, I wish to seek clarification from the hon. Minister when her Ministry last carried out feasibility studies to identify the type of transport that is required on Lake Bangweulu, compared with the figure she has mentioned of about K10 billion for constructing a boat that will be suitable for Lake Bangweulu which is not as rough as the Indian Ocean which links the Robin Island, where the type of ship that is being used cannot cost K5 billion to construct. Will the hon. Minister tell us when she last carried out the feasibility studies?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, it is interesting to note today that the Member for Chifunabuli is from Ndola where there is no water at all.

Laughter

Ms Siliya: But all the same, he has given figures of between K5 billion and K10 billion. He is not sure, but for me between K5 billion and K10 billion, the difference is neither here nor there. All I am emphasising is that when there was a budget of K1 billion in 2005, it was inadequate. Just like this year, we have budgeted K500 million for a dredger in the Western Province and yet the dredger costs in the range of K35 billion.

Therefore, we just have to work together with hon. Members. I am trying very hard to put a point across to my colleague that we actually have to ring fence some money if we are going to provide the reliable and adequate water transport that is needed on  Lake Bangweulu.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate and feel for the people there because I just returned from the Northern Province and I know that they are experiencing a lot of problems as far as Mpulungu. However, we have to ring fence sufficient money in the Budget that will match the market price and not just indicate figures that will not be able to buy anything.

I thank you, Madam.

DOCTORS AND CLINICAL OFFICERS COUNTRYWIDE

258. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Health how many medical doctors and clinical officers were currently working in the country, province by province.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Madam Speaker, the information on doctors and clinical officers province by province is as follows:

Province        Doctors       Clinical Officers

Northern             25                       106
Central                50                       113
Lusaka              379                       206
Copperbelt        234                       203
N/Western          35                         44
Western             29                         68
Eastern               24                        106
Luapula              26                         49
Southern            59                       225
Total                  861                    1120

Madam Speaker, these are the statistics of doctors employed in public health institutions. There are also doctors in private health institutions, the mines and mission hospitals specifically employed by those institutions.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister, it is clear that most of these doctors are based in urban areas. I would like to find out what the Ministry is doing to ensure that people from rural areas also benefit from clinical officers and doctors because in most rural constituencies, there are no clinical officers and doctors.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Madam Speaker, we have stated many times in this House that there is a shortage of health workers. In 2002, we had less than ten Zambian doctors in rural health institutions. This very hard working Government …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: …put in place the Zambia Health Worker Retention Scheme that specifically ensures the needs, as raised by the hon. Member, are met. From that time, there are on this Retention Scheme ninety-four medical doctors serving in districts and remote areas. We also have added seventeen medical licentiates in areas where there are no medical doctors and these men and women are doing a commendable job.

In addition, on this Scheme, in order to retain health workers in the rural areas, we have 110 nurses and other health worker tutors. If we have to increase the numbers, then we have to invest in the training of our health workers.

Madam Speaker, lastly but not the least, there are on this Scheme 350 nurses, midwives and environmental health technologists who are serving in those areas. These are the attempts which we are making, as a Government, to ensure that there is equity of access to qualified personnel in all our institutions.

Madam Speaker, from an establishment of 25,620, Cabinet has just approved an establishment of over 51,000 and we are progressively incrementally filling positions and by the beginning of this year, we have on our establishment more than 32,000 workers from 25,000 so that they can as much as possible serve our people.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify why in Chingola at the Nchanga General Hospital, out of the figure he quoted 244 doctors on the Copperbelt, Nchanga Hospital has just three at the moment whilst other hospitals on the Copperbelt have as many doctors as ten. I would like to find out what criterion is used in deploying these doctors because in the meantime, Chingola is contributing a lot to the country’s economy.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, the establishment for each hospital is based on the facilities that they offer. A district hospital has a set establishment just as a specialist hospital or provincial hospital. This is what creates the variations in the number of doctors and skills. However, what has been cited is just a reflection of the shortage of medical doctors. I am certain that these institutions will have requisite numbers of medical doctors.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that as a result of the good Retention Scheme obtaining for medical doctors in rural areas, we will, in the very near future, have a serious shortage of doctors in the urban areas? We discovered this after our tours of the provinces as a Committee.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for that observation by the hon. Member who is Chairperson of the Committee on Energy. The hon. Member is correct. There is a skewed distribution of medical doctors, disadvantaging the already disadvantaged rural communities. This Scheme has become very popular. In order to mitigate this reversal from rural to urban areas, we are put measures in place shortly when Cabinet discusses how we can give incentives to health workers whether in urban or rural areas. However, I must add that we must be conscious that the rural folks deserve as much quality health care as urban dwellers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health has elaborated the measures put in place to ensure some kind of equitable distribution of health workers, especially to rural health centres. For my constituency, that means nothing because I have been discussing this matter with the hon. Minister over the last one and half to two years and no clinical workers have been deployed to some of the rural health centres. What is his Ministry doing to ensure that the more remote areas of this country do get some health personnel? It sounds very impressing when I hear the statistics and plans, but on the ground, in my constituency, it means nothing.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Ask do not debate.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, it is true that the Member of Parliament has been knocking on my door repeatedly. And it is true that all that he sees has to do with his constituency. However, I have reassured him that what is prevailing in his constituency is also prevailing in many other constituencies. Therefore, time will come when we will get there. We will provide the health workers.

Dr Machungwa interjected.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, it takes time to train health workers. We have put in place measures to increase the number of health workers to be trained. For instance, midwifery schools that were closed are now functioning. We have put in place direct midwifery entry because we need to produce more midwives. Now, these are programmes that cannot yield results immediately. Therefore, I assure the hon. Member of Parliament that as we recruit, certainly, we shall look at Luapula Constituency in the same manner we will many other constituencies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to find out from the hon. Minister, why the Northern Province which is the biggest province in the country has only twenty-five doctors, a figure which is equal or less than that of other provinces which are smaller.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, we do have a phenomenon called the Rural-Urban Drift and the Northern Province is predominantly rural. We put in place the Zambia Health Worker Retention Scheme to address this disparity. The prevailing preference of the health workers to work in the urban areas is what we are trying to address. This phenomenon is what we see in the Northern Province.

Secondly, in other provinces by historical facts, one finds there are more health institutions. This is why one finds the statistics are skewed. However, in our plans, we have taken note of that. This is why we have embarked on vigorous recruitment and training. As soon as we produce, we will deploy health workers to the Northern Province.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

CHINSALI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

259. Major Chibamba (Shiwa’ngandu) asked the Minister of Health what emergency plans the Ministry had to save the Chinsali District Hospital building structures that have cracked severely and were a great danger to the hospital staff, patients and other stakeholders.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, in January, 2008 after torrential heavy rains and a storm, the district hospital suffered damages involving mainly the Out Patient Department (OPD) and pharmacy, where the sub-wall of the building had sunk, leaving the super structure suspended, This created a horizontal crack of about 30 mm. The pharmacy super structure developed lateral and vertical cracks and its panel walls were detached from the reinforced columns.

Madam Speaker, by 30th April, 2008, underpinning of the OPD building and mending of the vertical cracks had been completed and the mending of the horizontal cracks at the pharmacy and repairs to the drainage system were completed at a cost of K6 million.

The second phase will involve underpinning and the bill of quantities for these works estimated at K6 million has been submitted. The bill of quantities of these works having already been submitted the works are expected to commence soon.

The last phase where the bill of quantities is yet to be made will involve the entire hospital and this shall require rehabilitations in the form of painting, replacement of window panes and other simple and routine works.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MUSHROOMING OF FOREIGN-OWNED SAW MILLS

260. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources what measures the Ministry had taken to stop the mushrooming of foreign-owned saw mills which were responsible for the illegal cutting of timber through which the Government was losing much revenue.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, does not allow foreign-owned sawmills companies to obtain licences. These companies, according to the law, are not eligible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwapela: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that lack of political will for sustainability in developing Zambia’s forest resources has led to the sabotage of forestry sector. Likewise, the merging of the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources with the Ministry of Tourism is a major cause because the focus is on tourism, leading to the private business interest overriding the environment protection.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the House that the Ministry is very committed to environmental issues.  The fact that we are also in charge of tourism has not compromised that situation. Only two weeks ago, my fellow hon. Deputy Minister and I toured the Northern Province to look at the extent of devastation which has taken place in that part of the country and the tour was extended to the Eastern Province. To show commitment, in our budget, you may have noticed that we actually indicated K4 billion plus for the tree planting programme which I have seen is going on very well on the ground.

Therefore, I can assure the House that political will is there and we are working with communities as well as establishing various clubs in schools with regard to environmental issues. I would like to take this opportunity to invite hon. Members of Parliament to get involved so that we can work together on projects such as tree planting and bee keeping. These are community projects which can benefit the people and Parliamentarians can demonstrate political will by getting involved. As a Ministry, we are available to support the forestry programmes.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Madam Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister, I would like to find out what mechanisms have been put in place to ensure the monitoring of foreign nationals who are exploiting timber in Kalabo, Isoka and Chama districts so that we are able to capture the revenue that has been lost.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the main problem has been the legal constraints. When we wanted to create a Forestry Commission, a number of measures were put in place which led to restructuring of the Forestry Department, but due to lack of funds, that Commission Act was not operationalised. That is why we are still using the 1973 Forestry Act. As a result of that restructuring, we did away with forestry guards, who are famously called Kapendamabulas. However, we are now trying to reorganise and revisit that situation so that we can have more people on the ground to fully monitor the situation.

We are also hoping to borrow the good ideas which were mooted in the Forestry Commission Act and make amendments to the 1973 Forestry Act so that we have a proper legal framework which can enable us to monitor the various activities on the ground. Currently, there are very few forestry employees on the ground. We are hoping that we can employ more people. Vehicles have been bought for some areas and we will soon be procuring more vehicles for places such as Isoka and Chinsali.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

TRAINED MEDICAL OFFICER AT KAKOMA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE

261. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the Government would post a trained medical officer to Kakoma Rural Health Centre in Mwinilunga East Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) when the solar system at the rural health centre above would be rehabilitated.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga East would like to find out …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I had just started responding to the question by the hon. Member for Mwinilunga East. I was saying that the facility does not require a medical officer as it is just a rural health centre. Currently, the facility is being manned by a retired clinical officer who has been re-engaged by the district on contract. However, a newly qualified nurse has already been assigned to Kakoma Rural Health Centre to beef up the current staffing levels.

As regards part (b) of the question, solar panels as well as the whole system are in good working order, except that the batteries need to be replaced as they are not functioning well. The batteries will be replaced in the fourth quarter of 2008.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

SINKING OF BOREHOLES AT NANGOMA MISSION HOSPITAL

262. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Health when new boreholes would be sunk at Nangoma Mission Hospital in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency to replace the existing ones which do not have sufficient water.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, one borehole was sunk and equipped on 31st January, 2008 by our Water Affairs Department. Deepening of the other borehole would soon be undertaken possibly towards the end of the year.

I thank you, Madam.

REHABILITATION OF KAULU HIGH SCHOOL

263. Mr C. K. Banda, SC (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) when the Ministry would construct dormitories for students at Kaulu High School in Petauke Central Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) when a proper science laboratory would be constructed at the school at (a) above; and

(c) when electricity supply or solar panels would be connected or supplied to the above school.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, Kaulu is a registered day secondary school that is being planned to have boarding facilities when the province allocates resources for the project.

With regard to part (b) of the question, the construction of a science laboratory at Kaulu Day High School is about to start. The office of the Permanent Secretary in the Eastern Province has already released K150 million towards this project.

Currently, the School Projects Management Committee (PMC) is processing tender documents with the Provincial Tender Board Committee.

The project is expected to start as soon as tendering for materials and labour contracts is done and this should be completed by 31st December, 2008.

In response to part (c), the Government has developed the Rural Electrification Programme which will also cover districts that are far from the national electrification grid. Government institutions, including Kaulu High School, will benefit from this project once it is put in place. In the meantime, installation of solar power will be explored when resources become available.

I thank you, Madam.

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BILLS

FIRST READING

ANTI-HUMAN TRAFFICKING BILL, 2008

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Anti-Human Trafficking Bill, 2008. The Bill seeks to provide for the prohibition, prevention and prosecution of human trafficking, provide for the filing and dealing with matters related to human trafficking, establish a Committee on Human Trafficking and provide its powers and functions, establish centres for victims of human trafficking, establish a human trafficking fund, domesticate the protocol to prevent, suppress and punish trafficking in persons, especially women and children, supplement the United Nations Conventions against transnational organised crime and provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 22nd August, 2008.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE PUBLIC PROCUREMENT BILL, 2008

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Public Procurement Bill, 2008 whose objectives are to continue the existence of the Zambia National Tender Board and rename it as the Zambia Public Procurement Authority, revise the law relating to procurement so as to ensure transparency and accountability in public procurement, regulate and control practices relating to public procurement in order to promote the integrity of fairness and public confidence in the procurement process, repeal and replace the Zambia National Tender Board Act, 1982; and provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Public Accounts Committee. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 22nd August, 2008.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

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MOTION

REPORT OF A PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the presidential appointment of Hon. Mr Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa to serve as Supreme Court Judge, laid on the Table of the House on 4th July, 2008.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Muteteka: Madam Speaker, the appointment of Hon. Justice Mwanamwambwa is made pursuant to the provisions of Article 93 (2) of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, which provides the appointment of judges of the Supreme Court.

Madam, your Committee held five meetings in total and throughout their deliberations were cognizant of the fact that persons appointed to the positions of Supreme Court Judge must not only be competent, but should also exhibit the highest levels of integrity and commitment to the provisions of good governance, justice and the rule of law.

Your Committee, therefore, assessed the suitability of the nominee with utmost care by scrutinising his curriculum vitae and all information submitted to them by the State investigative agencies and relevant professional bodies in detail.

Madam Speaker, I wish to report that all the State security agencies, professional bodies and the appointing authorities supported the appointment of Hon. Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa. This was based on their views that he is qualified to hold the position of Supreme Court Judge by virtue of his clean record, good standing in society and adequate academic qualifications.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also interviewed the nominee who submitted that he is fifty-four (54) years old and had worked in both the Government and private sector as a legal practitioner.

Your Committee, after due and thorough evaluation of the evidence presented to them by the State security and investigative agencies, professional bodies such as the Law Association of Zambia, and the Appointing Authority and their subsequent interview with the nominee, found that he was suitably qualified and competent to be appointed Supreme Court Judge.

Your Committee observed that the nominee’s profession and occupation had exposed him to a variety of litigation and other valuable experiences which would enable him to contribute positively to the Supreme Court Bench, if his appointment were ratified. Further, your Committee noted that the nominee had personal attributes necessary for the high judicial office of Supreme Court Judge. This induced confidence in your Committee that the nominee would be able to perform his duties in this important position with due diligence and commitment.

It is also worthy to note that the nominee is relatively young in that being only fifty-four years, he still has eleven more years before retiring. This is good as the nominee would apply his energy appropriately before retirement.

Madam Speaker, in view of the foregoing, the fact that the nominee is both qualified and competent, your Committee unreservedly recommend that the House do ratify the appointment of Hon. Mr Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa to serve as Supreme Court Judge.

In Conclusion, allow me to thank all the witnesses who made their written submissions to your Committee on the nominee for their commitment to national duty. Their submissions aided your Committee in their scrutiny of the nominee and arriving at a sound decision. I also wish to thank the witnesses for sparing their valuable time to appear before your Committee to make their oral submissions.

I also wish to commend all members of your Committee for their dedication and active participation in the deliberations. Without the dedication of the members, my role as Chairperson would not have been easy.

Last but not the least, I wish to convey the Committee’s gratitude to the Hon. Mr Speaker, and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services offered to the Committee during their deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to debate now or later?

Mrs Sinyangwe: Now, Madam.

Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chisamba to adopt the Report of the Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the presidential appointment of Hon. Mr Justice Marvin Sitwala as Supreme Court Judge.

From the onset, Madam, I wish to commend the Chairperson for delivering a concise and accurate speech on the report of your Committee.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: May I, therefore, add to the Chairperson’s speech in supporting the presidential appointment of Honourable Mr Justice Mwanamwambwa as Supreme Court Judge.

Madam, all the stakeholders who made written and oral submissions to your Committee on the suitability of the nominee strongly supported his candidature. The support of the stakeholders was based on their investigations which pointed to the fact that the nominee had not engaged in illicit activities and that he possesses the requisite professional and academic qualifications. The unanimous support of the nominee by the stakeholders helped your Committee in arriving at an informed decision.

Based on the interaction of your Committee with the stakeholders and the nominee himself, I have no doubt in my mind that Honourable Mr Justice Mwanamwambwa is qualified to hold the position of Supreme Court Judge. I note that, besides the academic and professional attributes, Justice Mwanamwambwa also exhibits a sober character befitting the position of Supreme Court Judge. In addition he has exhibited a strong character and dedication to duty based on his submission that he reports for work very early and commences court proceedings by 0900 hours.

The nominee also mentioned a very important point in that he had established a practice of thoroughly studying cases assigned to him long before the appointed day of hearing in court. This is a very important attribute as it is one of the ways that delays in court cases can be tackled. As we are all aware, there have been a lot of complaints from our citizens on delayed judgements. It is my hope that the nominee will maintain the same attitude to work if his appointment is ratified by this House.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I wish to second the Motion to ratify the appointment of Honourable Mr Justice Mwanamwambwa as Supreme Court Judge and urge this House to ratify the appointment.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the good remarks that have been made by the mover and seconder. I also pay tribute to the whole Committee because I have read the report.

On Page 8, in their conclusion, under observations and recommendations, the report reads:

“In view of the foregoing and the fact the nominee is both qualified and competent, your Committee unreservedly recommend that the House do ratify the appointment of Mr Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa to serve as a Supreme Court Judge.”

Madam, that statement speaks volumes and, therefore, I would like to add my voice to the fact that this statement must be held by this House and ratify the appointment of Mr Mwanamwambwa as Supreme Court Judge. I know Mr Mwanamwambwa. He is a cool man and a conscientious worker. He is well focused in his duties, and compounded with the good education and professional qualifications, he is a suitable person. Further, the fact that he still has the energy, he is not too old, he will be able to excel in this field for quite a long time.

With these few remarks, I wish to support the recommendation by this Committee.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Chishimba (Kasama Central): I am thankful, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, as I have said before on related appointments, the office of Judge is a sacred one created by God Himself. Judges, therefore, ought to submit to God in all their dealings, that is, in the dispensation of justice because God is the Creator of heaven and earth which, of course, includes the people.

Madam Speaker, while God has absolute authority to dispense justice in all nations, He has found it good to allow human beings to sit as earthly Judges. God sitteth on the Throne of Righteousness and what is, therefore, expected is that Judges dispense justice fairly and with fear of God.

Judges must, therefore, be incorruptible and the environment in which they operate should not influence their sense of judgement. I have warned before that Judges should not behave like political party cadres who jump from one party to the other, depending on the situation. Judgements should not be situational. What do I mean by this? Judgements should not be influenced by politics. Judgements should not be along the lines of the parties that are in power. Should there be another party taking over the Government tomorrow, would the line of judgements be tailored along that particular political party? That is the question which I put.

Judges enjoy the security of tenure constitutionally and this must give them reason to dispense justice clearly. There is this practice in Zambia to put Judges on contract when they attain retirement. If you put someone on contract, that person will serve the interests of the person who has given the contract, therefore, you obviously expect compromise ...

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: … to take place among the Judges. That way, we are going to see a situation where judgements are not given or meted out according to the law or the facts that are before Their Honour, Ladyships and Lordships. I am trying to say that flip-flopping in terms of judgements, passed by Judges is dangerous because it shows that Their ladyships and Lordships are quasi-politicians who only want to serve the interests of the ruling class.

The worst form of corruption, Madam Speaker, is where a judge can exhibit what I would call shameless partiality in the administration of justice. The corruption of Judges destroys the moral fabric of nations. This can be evidenced by what happened in Israel when there were corrupt Judges. People rose against the corruption which was taking place among the Judges and demanded to be ruled by a king as other nations. In the end, a King Soul who was wicked took over the reigns of power.

Let me, therefore, emphasise that Judges must be special people who should not look at political or religious affiliation, social status, income levels, race or colour of a person, creed, gender, age or tribe among other considerations.

If a judge ignores these basic principles and lives in his or her own world, then doomsday awaits because God watches over his own people. When time comes, God answers by fire.

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: Madam Speaker, it always comes to pass that if the people who are called by God’s name humble themselves and pray and turn away from their wickedness, God will hear them and heal their land. This, indeed, is an assurance that when God’s anointed servants pray, He answers them because He is eternal.

Judges should not go against the people. They should not go against the standards which guide their work for even if they do so, God will not go against His people.

Madam Speaker, that is why, we in the Patriotic Front are committed to ensuring that …

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: … fairness or justice for all is guaranteed in Zambia.

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: Madam Speaker, I now turn to the law. The Supreme Court has too much power. It has, as you are aware, both appellate and original jurisdiction in Zambia. This jurisdiction is unlimited. This is too much power and that is what the men and women of the Bench must always realise.

The original jurisdiction which the Supreme Court has is in Presidential Petitions pursuant to Article 41 (2) of the Constitution, Cap 1 of the Laws of Zambia. It is the highest court of appeal, or simply put, the superior court of record in the land. This is in both civil and criminal matters.

Madam Speaker, Their Ladyships and Lordships of the Bench at the Supreme Court cannot, therefore, afford to pass judgments that are questionable. They must commit their lives to …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! In appreciating that contribution, please, note that we have a report. I appeal to the hon. Member to discuss the report and the name being ratified. You may continue.

Dr Chishimba: Yes, I am coming to that.

Madam Speaker, I am trying to provide here some kind of guidance or counselling to the person whom we are about to ratify. I am saying that there is a need for Judges to commit themselves to extensive and intensive research on matters of the law. The report contains rich Curriculum Vitae, but what I am trying to emphasise is that there is a need to do more because the Court to which he is being appointed is the highest Court of the land. Judges who are ill prepared are liabilities to Zambia’s justice system. A judge who does not consult books …

Mr Munaile: Order!

Dr Chishimba: … by celebrated jurists or does not read local and international law, including judgments of other Commonwealth countries is a very dangerous judge and those appearing before him can be assured of being consigned to the grave early.

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: Madam Speaker, the paramounts of wide research among Judges, to which I am inviting Justice Mwanamwambwa, stem from the crude reality that their duty is to interpret, declare and apply the existing law of the State, and not make new or fresh law. Nevertheless, the effect of a judicial decision is in many cases to establish a new rule of national law and the law so made is termed Judge Made Law.

Madam Speaker, to put this into context, let me submit that Judges, as a rule, follow their own previous decisions in accordance with the doctrine of stare decisis which cause them to stand by their decisions. This means that they also participate in the creation of judicial laws.

This appears to be the case in point when Munalula says that the Judge reviews and examines the various acknowledged authorities which bear on the facts in issue and reasoning by inference or analog from which he deduces some principles which he or she considers relevant to the facts he or she has found proved. He then applies that principle to those facts and gives his judgment in accordance with it. The reason for the decision when abstracted from the facts peculiar to the case namely; those relating to such matters as the persons concerned and the time and place of the events in question, amounts in effect to a principle that is termed as ratio decidendi  of the case.

This principle, Madam Speaker, …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That sounds so much like a lecture to the House. Can you debate the Motion? We have a Motion and not a lecture. We normally do not want lectures in the House.

Dr Chishimba: Madam Speaker, where I am trying to drive my point …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! May you just speak?

Dr Chishimba: Yes, I am speaking.

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: … is that because they participate in making what I termed earlier as Judge Made Law, it is important that Judges interpret the law as passed by this Parliament. This will avoid a situation which, I think, is quite humiliating. This has been condemned by many other commentators. For instance, what happened in the case of the Attorney-General and the MMD Vs Lewanika and four others, where, the Supreme Court added the words “and vice-versa” to the law. We are saying that they must as much as possible prevent that from happening. It is important that whilst Parliament might have overlooked the need to put that word in the law, it is important that they try as much as possible to keep away from trying to alter …

Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to ignore the Speaker’s ruling and continue with his poem? I need a serious ruling.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The concern of the hon. Member who has raised a point of order is that there has been guidance on the hon. Member on the Floor to genuinely get the concern of the Chair that to some hon. Members and others out there, this has become a poem. It is because it is a lecture rather than a debate. The hon. Member is given the last opportunity to debate because it is not in order to continuously go your way when you are guided. Can you come to the Motion and wind up? I am sure he is winding up.

Laughter

Dr Chishimba: Madam Speaker, Zambia is a democracy and in a democracy, human rights must always be protected. My appeal to Judge Mwanamwambwa is that it is important to ensure that justice is dispensed fairly or impartially. Today, we are living in an environment where most of our citizens are quite informed. That is why we, in the Patriotic Front, encourage our members to read, unlike what we see in some parties where members are not encouraged to read.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: We read and research extensively, and therefore, Judges ought to know that they are operating in an environment where people are informed and protecting the rights of the people is paramount. We have seen a situation where cases of corruption are delaying in the courts of law. It has been said that justice delayed is justice denied. Therefore, the situation where we have cases that are taking three to four years from the time they started is actually a mockery of the justice system in Zambia. We need men and women on the Bench who are committed to ensuring that the matters that are before them are quickly disposed of. The danger of allowing these cases to take too long is that innocent people who are appearing before them may actually be inconvenienced unnecessarily whilst the guilty ones continue to go scot-free.

The guilty ones will, perhaps, in the end find an opportunity to control the State. This means that they have permanently escaped justice. That is why it is important that if the fight against corruption is to be won, Judges understand that they have to perform that moral responsibility on behalf of the people of Zambia who pay the tax which end up being plundered. In fact, it has always been said, as a matter of law that all those who are caught doing wrong must be punished accordingly and for that moral wrong which they commit, they must be hated by society for doing it.

However, we are seeing a culture where you sometimes even begin to entertain people who were levelled with very serious corruption charges. Therefore, there is a need for the courts to ensure that they protect the interests of the people of Zambia whose resources are being plundered. These are cases that must be disposed of as expeditiously as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to contribute on this Motion. Let me start by adding my voice of support to the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Chisamba and seconded by the hon. Member for Matero. Let me also support the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member for Mulobezi, the National Chairman for MMD and the views expressed by the presumptive presidential candidate for PF.

Laughter

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, the political democratic dispensation that this country has opted for has three arms of Government, the Executive, Legislature and the Judicature. These three arms are separate, but equal. This is the pinnacle of our governance in this country. It is, therefore, necessary, that for these arms of Government to function properly, they be manned by men and women of the highest integrity and character. Therefore, even as I support this Motion, it is necessary to remind ourselves that the nominee before this House is a person of high integrity and of the highest character possible.

Madam Speaker, indeed, the Select Committee have done a wonderful job in their report by pointing out the integrity of this person. They have attested, through their deliberations, to the clean record and adequate qualifications that repose in this nominee. I am also interested in the point that at his tender age of 54, we have many years, as a country, to benefit from his wisdom. We are also reminded that many professional bodies, including the Law Association of Zambia, have supported this nominee.

Madam, in her debate in seconding the Motion, the hon. Member for Matero said that all stakeholders who made both written and orals submissions strongly, and the operative word here is “strongly”, supported the appointment of the nominee. She went further and said that the nominee exhibits a sober character.

Madam Speaker, we are lucky, as a nation, because in other countries, the Judges are divided between political affiliations. Even on the Supreme Court of the United States of America, the appointment to the Supreme Court is always looked at very carefully to see whether a Judge is a member of the Conservative Party or Liberal Party. Fortunately, for this country, we have not reached that state yet. Our Judges look at cases as they are and this nominee has proved, time and again, that his main preoccupation is to interpret the law that this Parliament passes.

With those few words, I support the ratification of Judge Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this chance to support the ratification of Hon. Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa to be Supreme Court Judge of Zambia.

Madam, while are others are supporting the ratification of Hon. Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa, I will speak from the experience which I have had with him because I was privileged to work with him when I was a partner in Lisulo and Company. He joined us at the Lisulo and Company after I had been with this firm for seven years. We found him to be a very hard working young man. He was conscientious, had a flare for reading and was really up to the job. He was not just a lawyer, but a lawyer who had found himself in a right profession because he was efficient in the manner he performed his duties. We, as partners at Lisulo and Company, happily transferred him to Livingstone to run the Livingstone Lisulo and Company Branch of the firm which he run very well and to the satisfaction of all of us.

Therefore, I am not surprised that he has been recommended for appointment as Supreme Court Judge of Zambia. I note that he is not the most senior Judge on the High Court Bench. In fact, he is ranked eleventh, but the mere fact that he was picked from many, to me, points to one matter, and, that is, he is a person who is dedicated to his duty. He delivers his judgements timely. He delivers well researched judgements and he researches. It is one matter to deliver an empty judgement and another to deliver judgement which leans heavily in favour of justice. Judge Mwamwambwa is a Judge who will do the latter. He is young and that is an added advantage because we do not want people who are already tired to find themselves on the Supreme Court Bench. This is a very good appointment and I support it wholeheartedly. He is a man whom I can describe as a person who loves his job. He reports for work at 0730 hours from Monday to Friday which is very rare in this country. If he has given a date for the hearing of the case, he is always there and sits at 0900 hours sharp. These are the kind of judges that we want to sit on the Supreme Court Bench. This appointment is deserved and I wholeheartedly support it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Minister of Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this credible choice of Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa. He adds value to the Bench of this country. He does not subtract.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Madam Speaker, generally, we cannot debate the activities of the Bench because it is not here to defend itself. Therefore, we will confine ourselves to this particular person. Justice Marvin Sitwala Mwanamwambwa is a level-headed person. He worked in Livingstone and I was privileged to be a resident of Livingstone during his time of service under Lisulo and Company. His submissions and judgments in court are very profound.

As Hon. Chifumu Banda said, he is very conscientious and articulate. Therefore, this country is very lucky to have a judicial system that has a Bench which is very attractive and admired compared to some other African countries. In other countries, judgments are priced. He, who pays more, gets a favourable judgment. This is not the system in Zambia. In Zambia, we have a system, which, as I said, is admired and loved the world over. I have travelled widely and I have interest in what goes on in other countries. I can safely say that our system in Zambia is nearly perfect. It is not perfect, but nearly perfect.

Madam Speaker, I can assure you that Justice Mwanamwambwa is superb and whoever mooted this appointment did a good job. I am sure that there was some research done before his name was brought to this House and we should be grateful for the privilege we have as hon. Members of Parliament to ratify the nominations. We have to be courageous, as Parliament, so that if the nomination is wrong, we are not hoodwinked into ratifying it. However, in this particular case, I am grateful to His Excellency, the President for the appointment because Justice Mwanamwambwa is superb. He will make a very good Judge if …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Member: Hammer!

Mr Munkombwe: …allowed to joins some of the best Judges. The country may be worried about the justice delays and, as the legal fraternity says, justice delayed is justice denied. We are appealing to the Judges to see to it that they improve in that area. However, in the area of efficiency in delivering justice, I think that they are trying their best.

Madam Speaker, the Bench is not here. Therefore, I would like to appeal to hon. Members not to generalise the debate because it is wrong to lambast people who may not be able to defend themselves.

I thank you, Madam.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I wish to say that the appointment of Justice Mwanamwambwa to serve as a Supreme Court Judge is long overdue. The Justice has distinguished himself and we note with gratitude that his ratification has been overwhelmingly supported by the Committee which scrutinised the appointment. The appointment is not controversial and should be supported by all well-meaning Parliamentarians.

Madam Speaker, I have known Justice Mwanamwambwa since our days at the University of Zambia from 1976 to 1980. We were together at the University of Zambia, and later at the Law Practice Institute, where we trained as legal practitioners.

Justice Mwanamwambwa has excelled with distinction in the legal profession since then. He has served diligently in both the private and public sectors, that is, both as a private and Government lawyer. With this immense experience, he is better placed to serve on the Supreme Court Bench. It has also been worthwhile for me to interact with Justice Mwanamwambwa during those seminars organised by the Judiciary.

Madam Speaker, Justice Mwanamwambwa has several positive attributes. He is extremely competent, hard working and meticulous in his work and above all, a disciplinarian. He is also punctual, efficient and dedicated to his work. I must also disclose here that in the interest of efficiency and expeditious disposal of cases, he does not tolerate adjournments on flimsy grounds from litigants or lawyers and this is good for the administration of justice.

Madam Speaker, I have heard some of his judgments and found them to be well written, researched and reasoned. The Justice is impartial and fair and I am sure he will continue to deliver quality justice on the Supreme Court Bench. He has practiced law for more than twenty-seven years, like myself, and by far surpasses the minimum requirement of fifteen years required for appointment to the Supreme Court.

Madam, I am also proud to say that in the early years of his professional career, the Justice worked as a practitioner in the Legal Department of my Ministry. My Ministry has thus contributed to his training and that of other Judges. I must also mention that His Excellency, the President, in coming up with this nomination, made the necessary consultations with all stakeholders, including the Judiciary and the Law Association of Zambia.

In conclusion, I therefore, crave the indulgence of this august House to ratify the appointment. The Judge will add a lot of value to the Supreme Court and to the dispensation of justice generally.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Madam Speaker, in winding up debate on this Motion, I wish to say that on behalf of Your Committee and on my own behalf, as Chairperson, allow me to thank all the hon. Members who debated objectively. Further, I wish to extend my thanks to the House for the support given to the report.

Notably, let me point out that it is the wish of your Committee that the observations and vital concerns expressed and highlighted by the Members be put on record accordingly in the interest of and commitment to the promotion of good governance, justice and the rule of law.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to convey, once more, your Committee’s gratitude to the hon. Mr Speaker, and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services offered to the Committee during their deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_____

The House adjourned at 1726 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 8th August, 2008.