DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 14th August, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON A COMPLAINT LODGED BY THE HON MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES AND CHIEF WHIP, MR MIKE MULONGOTI, MP, AGAINST THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ROAN PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, MR CHISHIMBA KAMBWILI, MP

Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that, on 18th January, 2008, the Hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services and Chief Whip, Mr Mike Mulongoti, MP, lodged a complaint against the Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP.

In his letter of complaint, the hon. Minister and Chief Whip alleged that Mr Kambwili, MP, had, on 11th January, 2008, during the President’s Address to the House and the nation, conducted himself in a manner which was both embarrassing and unbefitting an hon. Member of Parliament by continuously shouting invectives at the Head of State despite having been advised, through a circular dated 9th January, 2008, which reminded hon. Members of the need to observe Parliamentary etiquette and decorum befitting the House.

In accordance with Parliamentary Practice and Procedure, and in line with the rules of natural justice, the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency was given an opportunity to exculpate himself both in writing and by appearing before the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services.

The Committee’s findings were that the running commentaries were made by some Members of Parliament from both sides of the House. It was, therefore, difficult for them to punish Mr Kambwili, MP, alone. The Committee, however, felt that this occasion should be used to give guidance to the House on how and which specific words the Members were to use in the House, especially, when the Head of State was in the House. The Committee recommended further, that experiences of Parliaments in the Commonwealth be used to draw lessons therefrom.

It is in line with the said observations and recommendations by the Committee that I wish to guide the House.

Hon. Members should know that, in virtually all Parliaments, both in and outside the Commonwealth, the Constitution empowers the Head of State to address the House.

In this regard, M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, in their book entitled, Practice and Procedure of Parliament, Fourth Edition, at page 180, have observed that:

“Being a statement of policy of the Government … the address contains a review of the activities and achievements of Government during the previous year and its policy with regard to important internal and current international problems. It also contains a brief account of the programmes of Government business for the session.”

Hon. Members, discipline, decorum and dignity of Parliament are of paramount importance for the efficient functioning and success of the Institution. Success, effectiveness and prestige of any institution rest on the orderly functioning and the extent to which it adheres to standards of discipline, dignity and decorum in discharging its activities. The three attributes are fundamental norms of this representative body and have always been considered sacrosanct and, therefore, should be preserved, protected and defended.

On 31st of January, 2001, I had guided the House on this subject, and in that announcement, I implored hon. Members to note that the ensuing debate on the address by the Head of State is not done in a laissez faire manner, but follows definite rules based on the practice and procedure of the House.

M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, whom I have already referred to, in their book entitled Practice and Procedure of Parliament, 5th Edition, from pages 199 to 201, in commenting on the Indian Parliamentary System, stated as follows:

“The President’s Address to both Houses of Parliament assembled together is the most solemn and formal act under the Constitution. Utmost dignity and decorum befitting that occasion is maintained. Any action on the part of a member, which mars the occasion of the President’s Address or creates disturbance, is punishable by the House to which he belongs. As a convention, no member leaves the House, I emphasise, no member leaves the House while the President is addressing.  A few days before the Address, members are informed through a bulletin about the ceremonies and rules to be observed on that occasion.”

Hon Members may wish to draw lessons from the following Indian cases:

On the occasion of the Address by His Excellency the President of India to both Houses of Parliament assembled together on 12 February, 1968, two members of the Lok Sabha created obstruction.  The incident was followed by a walk-out by about seventy or eighty members belonging to both Houses.  On 28th February, having given an opportunity to the two members to explain their position, the Lok Sabha adopted a motion disapproving the conduct of the Hon Members and reprimanded them “for their undesirable, undignified and unbecoming behaviour.”

In another similar incident, a member of the Lok Sabha was alleged to have created obstruction and showed disrespect to the President on the occasion of his address to both Houses of the Parliament of India assembled together on 23rd March, 1971.  On a motion adopted by the House, the matter was referred to a relevant committee which, inter- alia, even among other things, disapproved the members’ conduct and recommended guidelines for the future.

Based on the foregoing, Hon Members, I now wish to remind the Assembly that the Zambian Parliament has rules and procedures which Hon Members are required to observe while in the House.  Hon Members are urged to take cognisance of these rules which are contained in the Members’ Handbook, 2006 Edition, and the guidance given from time to time by the Chair.

In accordance with the traditions of this House and of all Commonwealth Parliaments, the President’s Address or the Address from the Throne is a solemn occasion which is expected to be heard in silence.

When His Excellency the President is delivering his Address to the House, the practice is that there should be no interjections from Hon Members.  However, Members may express acknowledgements of the President’s pronouncements in the Address in the traditional manner of saying, “hear, hear.”  Those who do not want to acknowledge, should keep quiet.

Hon Members are well aware that the President’s Address is followed by a debate on the Motion of Thanks, during which they are at liberty to comment, criticise or express any views that they may hold arising from the matters raised by the President in his Address.

I stress that hon. Members are strongly urged to bear in mind that the President’s Address to the House is a solemn occasion which is expected to be heard without interjections. Hon Members should reserve their comments for the debate on the Motion of Thanks.

Furthermore, while the House is sitting, Members are expected to observe certain rules which are technically known as the rules of parliamentary etiquette.  These are based on the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the House and the rulings given by the Chair from time to time. 

I reiterate my guidance and hereby call on all Members of this august House to familiarise themselves with the Members’ Handbook, 2006 Edition, and, in particular, the rules of parliamentary etiquette which are intended to acquaint hon. Members with tools relating to the practices and procedures of the House to enable them effectively carry out their functions.  In particular, Chapter 5 of the Members’ Handbook deals with the general rules to be observed by hon. Members while present in the House.

Hon. Members, it is important that the rules of parliamentary etiquette and decorum in the House are strictly adhered to, failure to which the dignity of the House would be lowered, a situation which this House cannot allow.  Hon. Members, I, therefore, once again, appeal to all of you to take this guidance seriously and timely, as the House will not hesitate to treat any deviant behaviour as contempt of the House, an act which calls for an appropriate punishment on the erring Member.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EXTENSION OF THE LUNDAZI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

311. Mr C. K. Banda, Sc. (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Health when works on the extension of the Lundazi District Hospital, which stalled in 2001, would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Ministry of Health, fully recognises the importance the District Hospital plays in providing primary health care in Lundazi District. For this reason, the Ministry has planned to commence and complete the construction of an Out Patient Department (OPD) at the District Hospital in 2010, according to our Strategic Plan. Meanwhile, the Ministry of Health has continued to fund district hospitals across the country, including the Eastern Province where K2 billion has been allocated for the Chadiza District Hospital and K1.7 billion for the Chama District Hospital.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. K. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister explain to this House why it should take more than nine years to complete a project which is meant to benefit a lot of people in Lundazi District? Is it due to a lack of planning or what?

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that this project was initiated by the community and due to limitations of finances, this led to the project stalling. As has been stated, planning starts from the district. If the district prioritises projects, after being collated by the provincial office, the projects are funded from the headquarters. Therefore, if the District prioritises its project as per our plans, indeed, the constriction of the OPD will be funded.

I thank you, Sir.

MEANING OF GOLDEN SHARE

312. Mr Chongo (Mwense) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) what the meaning of the “golden share” held by the Government in the privatised former ZCCM mines was;

(b) whether the Government had used the “golden share” to benefit both the employees in the mines and the general public; and

(c) if not, what measures the Government had taken to ensure that the “golden share” impacted positively on the country.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, the Golden Share is a special share held by the Government in the privatised former ZCCM mines, which confers on the Government, certain veto rights in accordance with Zambian Laws and Regulations.

The rights conferred on a Golden Share are usually enshrined in the Shareholders’ Agreement or the Articles of Association of a particular mining company. For instance, according to the Articles of Association of the Konkola Copper Mines, Plc, the written consent of the special shareholder, in this case, the Government, is required to effect the taking of any step to have the company voluntarily wound up by its members or make any changes in the nature of the business.

Mr Speaker, as things stand, a situation in the privatised mines has not arisen requiring the Government to use its rights conferred by a Golden Share in order to benefit either the employees in the mines or the general public.

Mr Speaker, the Government recognises the importance of holding a Golden Share in the privatised mines and will not hesitate to use the rights conferred by the Golden Share, should a situation demand so. Consequently, there has been no need for the Government to put in place other measures to ensure that the Golden Share impacts positively on the country.

As you may be aware, the Government still maintains its Golden Share in several privatised mining companies such as Luanshya, Konkola and Mopani Copper Mines Limited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, in the case of negligence and lack of social responsibility, a Golden Share represents the power of intervention for the employees and the general public in the mining companies. 
I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that mining companies carry out social responsibilities responsibly so that the operations do not affect employees and people in the communities. This, for instance, is in cases where mining companies are overlaying potholes with waste materials containing silica, which is harmful to health.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the Golden Share, as the hon. Member is trying to define, is like an instrument at the privatisation of the mines, which was put in place because of certain conditions and incentives which were given to the mines to ensure that they diverted from their line of duty and invested in other businesses to ensure that the interest of workers and that of the Zambian people was taken into consideration. At the time that the shareholders decide to wind up the operations of the mine, our Director for the Golden Share can use it to veto.

Mr Speaker, with regard to benefiting workers and communities, the hon. Member gave an example in which he alleged that companies use waste materials to fill potholes. That is an issue which can be dealt with at the local level.

The hon. Member is aware that he is a member of the district council in the area. If the mines are putting waste materials on roads, the council can deal with that issue. However, it is wrong and it is punishable. There are laws and regulations which take care of such incidences.

However, we are talking about workers. In most of these mines, through the ZCCM Investments Holdings (ZCCM-IH ), we still have a position on the Boards. Therefore, the interest of the Government and Zambians is taken care of by our shares. For instance, in KCM, we have 20.6 per cent shares and our shareholders ensure that the Government’s interest and that of the workers is taken into consideration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, all these mining companies are now making profits. I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister whether the Government has received dividends, especially in 2007.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the bonus answer is, yes.

We have been receiving dividends from these mining companies. It is just unfortunate that most of the money received has been used to run the Maamba Collieries. Therefore, most of the money which we received from ZCCM-IH goes towards sustaining the welfare of the people at the Maamba Collieries. I would like to say that hon. Members should bear with us as we urge the Government to put this money into productive ventures.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, firstly, can the hon. Deputy Minister tell us what the percentage of this shareholding is?

Secondly, from the money that is being collected, only one institution has been pointed out as the beneficiary. Can the hon. Deputy Minister tell us which other institutions or public utilities have benefited from the money collected as dividends from the mining companies?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the question we had on the Order Paper referred to a Golden Share which is very different from the actual shareholding. The Golden Share is one very special share.

Hon. Opposition Member: It is 10 per cent.

Mr Shakafuswa: No. 
It is different to the whole aspect of shareholding in the mines. However, if the hon. Member is still unsatisfied with the answer, he can have the question put on the Order Paper, and we will come back to the House with a reply.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, in giving the bonus answer, the hon. Deputy Minister informed this house that the dividends from these companies in question were channeled to the Maamba Collieries to sort problems. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to clarify what he meant by that because that is totally unprocedural. Further, what regulation is his Ministry applying to take money from the dividends and apply them elsewhere without passing the dividends through this House which is the only House that has the authority to appropriate such money.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kabwata for that question.

Mr Speaker, the details are that both the Government’s and the mines’ indebtedness was handled by the ZCCM Investment Holdings. They held the liabilities as well as any benefits. Therefore, all the monies that were paid by the mines went to the ZCCM Investment Holdings whether in the form of dividends, price participation or any other revenues. It was an agreement with the Government that ZCCM IH will then sort out the problems of other mining companies, including the debt that was inherited from ZCCM. Therefore, the Maamba Mine was one of the assets for ZCCM which ZCCM IH had to take care of.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the Government continues to pump its resources into Maamba Collieries, and yet they are delaying to find preferred partners to help solve Maamba Collieries’ problems. The bid for Maamba Collieries was closed on 30th March, 2008 and this is August, but we still do not have a preferred bidder selected. Why are we delaying when we are spending so much financial resources?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, we have not delayed in the selection of a strategic partner. We are evaluating the bids that were submitted. Clearly, if Hon. Simuusa was not in the House and preferred to go into politics, I would have used him as a consultant because he is a former Managing Director for the Maamba Mine who knows exactly the problems of the mine.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Now, that he is sitting in this House, I had to use other people who are not very conversant with the operations of the Maamba Mine. That is why we are taking time to choose a strategic partner.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, we have had situations on the Copperbelt where people’s lives have been threatened, and yet in circumstances such as where water has been contaminated and roofs have been eaten away by sulphur dioxide, we have not seen the influence from the Government as orders of a golden share. What is this Government doing about that?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, as said earlier, the golden share comes into play when there is a re-arrangement of the ownership of the mine. With regard to the operations of the mines, we have the Mines Safety Department under the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. In that department, the experts are able to assess the damage caused by the different emissions from the mines. Having said that, I would like to say that the hon. Member should be aware of the Copperbelt Environmental Project which has been running for nearly five years now. In some of the townships, new houses have been built for people whose houses cracked or maybe their roofs were eaten away by fumes from some of the mines.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

REHABILITATION OF PART OF THE GREAT NORTH ROAD FROM SERENJE TO NAKONDE

313. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the stretch of the Great North Road from Serenje to Nakonde would be rehabilitated.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that it is the intention of the Ministry, through the Road Development Agency, to rehabilitate the entire stretch of the Great North Road from Serenje to Nakonde, as the last works carried out on the road in the early 2000s was meant to hold the road for only three years. The stretch of the Great North Road is now over due for rehabilitation.

The Ministry, through the Road Development Agency, engaged the contractor in 2007 to carry out pothole parching and limited resealing just to prevent further damage to the road. In 2008, tender has been advertised to carry out the required periodic maintenance of the Lukulu/Chinsoli Road. The works are estimated to commence before the start of the rainy season.

Further, the section between Serenje and Lukulu has been surveyed and tender documents are being prepared for inclusion in the 2009 Annul Work Plan.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that lately, there has been traffic of heavy loaded vehicles, which I believe he is, because he uses the same road frequently and that because of this, the road has been worn out completely. There are gullies on the road, and there a lot of accidents happening. What is the Ministry doing to quicken the process of the tenders so that the road can be repaired or the entire stretch resurfaced?

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, we are aware of that. This is the reason the tenders for the periodic maintenance of the Lukulu/Chinsoli Road are being processed. As for the other section of the road, it will be included in the 2009 Annual Work Plan.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, could we learn from the hon. Minister why it takes so long to repair the damages on the roads when they are in their minor stages.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question.

Mr Speaker, the repair of roads goes through a process which begins with checking the road which is further fed into the system. Thereafter, tenders are raised, selected and awarded. Following this, the repair takes place.

Mr Speaker, it is not as easy as seeing a pot-hole today and tomorrow someone goes there to mend it. We do not have that kind of force account to just act without following the required procedure. It is not the wish of this Government allow a stress on the road, after being noticed, to develop into a pot-hole before it is attended to. For that reason, we have been training groups of school leavers so that we can shorten the process of repairing roads such that once a pothole is noticed, this group of schools leavers that we are training can quickly move to that area and repair the road. At the moment, we do not have such a quick force that can quickly respond to these repairs.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I heard that in 2007, there was some pothole patching along the Great North Road and we have an idea, roughly, how much it costs per kilometre to patch potholes. Currently, the Kafue/Mazabuka Road is being rehabilitated and at the cost of K10 billion. I am wondering whether it cost so much just to patch the road. Could we have a rough idea?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member for Moomba for that question.

I will start with his last concern relating to the Mazabuka Road. In fact, as we are working on the road at the moment, according to the estimates, the money is not enough.

Hon. Member: How?

Mr Simbao: The road has deteriorated to such a poor state that we had a problem to get the contractor to work on it. The contractor said that the money was not enough to work on the road to a stage where it can be competently be certified fine. However, at the time we had advertised for the rehabilitation of the road, the estimations were based on the damage, but obviously, now it has been damaged further. We had to move in and that is how come the contractor is on site. That money is enough to rehabilitate the road to a stage where you would be comfortable. However, the K10 billion that he is using at the moment is not enough. There might be a need for a variation for him to do a good job, but we had to move in because of the bad state it is in.

With regard to the concerns on the other roads, I do not have a figure on how much it costs to patch the potholes on the Great North Road for 2007.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, it is good to see you in the House. The Government, hon. Minister, has done very well in maintaining the road between Lusaka and Kabwe in that every year or every other year, it is resurfaced or certain portions of it are resurfaced. Why is it not possible to do the same for the road between Chinsali and Nakonde, considering that it is an economic road and we use it to bring in a lot of imports into the country and also to send exports out of the country? Is it done in this manner because the Kabwe/Lusaka Road is nearer to Lusaka and the other places are far? What criteria are you using?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, thank you for that question which will help me find time to explain what is happening.

Sir, a road network is compared to a tree. It has a trunk, main roads, district roads, urban roads and feeder roads. What starts first, Mr Speaker, is the ground which is Lusaka, upon which a trunk is grown which is the main roads; the big ones. Some of the hon. Members of Parliament are fortunate because they reside here in Lusaka. Others come from the Copperbelt, North-Western, Luapula and Northern Provinces, and whether they like it or not, they have to use the Kabwe/Lusaka Road. They may use different routes, but to get to Lusaka, they have to use the Lusaka/Kabwe Road.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Therefore, this very common road must first of all be given all the attention before the other individual roads are attended to.

Laughter

Mr Simbao: That does not mean that we do not attend to the other roads. At the moment, we are working on the Isoka/Nakonde Road, hon. Kabwata, …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Simbao: … and upon completion, …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: … we shall have to attend to the Chinsali/Isoka Road. Therefore, I do not understand why people …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

Mr Ndalamei: Is he hon. Kabwata?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, who is failing to provide sufficient answers to the questions that are asked by Members, why he is bringing me into his debate when I am sitting here quietly listening to his …

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … long malikopo story.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Is he in order, Sir, to bring me into his debate? I seek your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabwata claims that he has been sitting there quietly …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … and he does not understand why he should be brought into the reply by the Hon. Minister of Works and Supply. The Chair protects the hon. Member for Kabwata and the Hon. Minister may resume answering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are attending to all the roads in this country. I am sure people, including hon. Members of Parliament who have used the Great East Road, as they pass the Independence Stadium, have seen a lot of earth moving equipment …

Hon. Members: Great North Road!

Mr Simbao: Great North Road.

Laughter

Mr Simbao: I am sure they have seen a lot of earth moving equipment parked by the Independence Stadium. This is in preparation for the Government to carry out full scale repairs of roads even in the rural areas where most of us hon. Members of Parliament come from. We are targeting most of the feeder roads in the rural constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Therefore, I do not see any reason for the anxiety expressed on this particular issue.

With regard to the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luapula, it is very good that he is expressing concern on the Chinsali/Nakonde Road. I must say that the traffic there has increased tremendously. We brought in 205 pieces of equipment using that road. Therefore, we know very well how much is attributed to this particular road. I thank him for not talking about the Pedicle Road instead.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: Next time!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister clearly indicated to the House that the K10 billion that has been given to the contractor to repair the Kafue/Mazabuka Road is insufficient to carry out the necessary works. Further, the hon. Minister, in the past, admitted that delays in the tendering processes have been part of the reason each time contracts are awarded, the scope of work would have changed due to the further deterioration of the road infrastructure. I would like the hon. Minister to, please, tell this House whose responsibility it is to ensure that the tendering process is in line with the scope of work so that contractors stop giving excuses of the scope of work having changed.

Secondly, could the hon. Minister also indicate what the Government is doing about the self-styled road repairers who we see on the Livingstone/Lusaka Road who fill up potholes in the day, empty them in the night, and go back the next day to fill them up and extort money from motorists?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the tendering process is a creation of this House. An Act was passed here to the effect that for the sake of securing Government funds, all projects must follow a certain procedure and that is the procedure that is being followed at the moment. This procedure has brought so much concern, both to the Government and all the other people, with regard to the length it takes that the President requested that it must be reviewed and we see how, while still maintaining the security required, it can be quickened. That is being looked at.

As regards the people who are feeling the potholes and removing the filler in the night, they are not employed by the Government and the Government does not know them. However, I can say that the Government is preparing to repair most of the roads that are damaged.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, in the last one month, we have lost close to thirty people on the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. My question is, and building on the question asked by the hon. Member for Mazabuka (Mr Nkombo), is it possible that the Ministry of Works and Supply can have a contingency elbowing power in the budgeting process to allow for the repair of trunk roads such as the Kafue/Mazabuka Road in order not to allow the problems in the budgeting process associated with the tendering process.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I hope I will respond to this question adequately, because I did not follow it properly. I would like to state that road projects are very big and they demand huge amounts of money. Therefore, when we undertake a road rehabilitation project, we must use a very concise approach and as such, it cannot be tackled in the manner that the hon. Member is suggesting. It will raise questions and so it must be done in its fullness. Normally, such projects must be planned for properly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister with regard to the Kafue/Mazabuka Road, he is aware that the road was constructed by a company called Patzanskiput. The Government is also aware that this company did shoddy work.

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether Patzanskiput., which did shoddy work whilst the Government was watching, was compelled to make a refund so that we use this money to top up on the K10 billion the hon. Minister has talked about to rehabilitate the Kafue/Mazabuka Road.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I really do not understand the concern at the moment because I have said that when it was realised that the road had been damaged further than initially evaluated, it was decided that the valuation will be done to the sum that has been allocated. Therefore, I do not understand why the hon. Member wants to take us back to the time when that road was rehabilitated because I do not have the figures or the history of the contract.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! I still see a number of hon. Members with follow up questions on this question. I shall take three then the House will move on.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he is doing about the Sabina/Mufulira Road which has become more dangerous after being repaired than it was before.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question because I have not heard from anyone else what he is talking about. I must apologise and say that I am hearing about that for the first time. We shall investigate what the hon. Member is talking about.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chiengi): Mr Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Minister was happy that the hon. Member there did not ask about the Pedicle Road and so I will ask a none pedicle question on whether the hon. Minister is really considering doing something as a matter of urgency to the Tuta Valley Road which is now becoming dangerous both to the travelling public as well as to the business community transporting cargo.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, Tuta Road is in the budget and last week or the other week, it was awarded to a contractor. Definitely the Government is going to attend to this road and if I am not mistaken, there should be something in the range of K4 billion to work on that road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, you are welcome back to the House. Can the hon. Minister inform the people of Kalabo on the status of the Mongu/Kalabo Road project, following the last media reports that the bid by the contractors was higher than the Government could afford. I would like the hon. Minister to inform us whether the project is being re-advertised or if something is being done bout it.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of the Mongu/Kalabo Road, as the hon. Member for Liuwa knows, the Government is in the process of purchasing the Bailey Bridge components. We have so far brought in about 174 containers and we are expecting something like 254 containers. There are a lot of components and at the moment, they are stored in Mongu.

Mr Speaker, concerning the embankment, we asked for permission to see if we could negotiate with some of the companies that tendered for the road, but the amounts they had requested for were too big. Therefore, before we could pick on any of them, it was necessary that we see if they could reduce their quotations.

Mr Speaker, Government is looking at this particular road and we hope that before the end of this year, some physical works could start on that road.

I thank you, Sir.

GOVERNMENT OFFICERS’ REMUNERATION PACKAGES

314. Mr Mwangala (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning what measures the Government had taken to ensure that allowances and other remuneration packages for officers in the Public Service were processed in a transparent manner and devoid of corruption and nepotism.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the Government has taken the following measures to ensure that allowances and other remuneration packages for officers in the Public Service are processed in a transparent manner devoid of corruption and nepotism:

Standardisation

The Government, through Public Service Reform Programme and collective bargains with the unions, has endeavoured to standardise the allowances and other packages such as leave travel and separation packages in division scales in order to avoid fluctuation in the payments within the scales.

Revision and Distribution of Public Service Regulations

The Government, through the same Public Service Reforms Programme, has revised the various regulations and has distributed the new copies of the revised regulations to all civil servants which has ensured that each civil servant is aware of the rules and regulations that relate to the entitlement and payment of various allowances and other remuneration packages.

Capacity Building

The Government has continued to orient and disseminate the change in the new regulations through workshops and in-house day to day operations of the Civil Service.

Introduction of the PMEC and Activity- based Budgeting

The Government has, in the past years, been using the Payroll Establishment Management Control System (PMEC) to process the payment of salaries and salary- related allowances. This system has been designed with the direct involvement of the Public Service Management Division, Management Development Division and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning through the Permanent Secretaries’ budget and Financial Management Accounting Unit, during monthly processing of the Government payroll in a transparent manner. This system has in turn brought about checks and balances in the payment of salaries and salary- related allowances to the public officers by the Government.

The PMEC system also brought about decentralisation in the processing of the payroll to unit costs up to the district level. This has enabled civil servants in the remote parts of the country to be able to have access to the system.

The introduction of the activity-based budget has brought about transparency, as the budgeting and release of funds meant for the payment of allowances and other packages is defined in the cost centres of the departments or ministries. This measure ensures that no diversion of funds is entertained.

Mr Speaker, these are some of the measures which are currently in place to ensure that there is transparency in the payment of allowances and other remuneration packages in the Civil Service. My Government has continued to develop various other measures, and soon to be introduced, is the payment of housing allowances through the payroll as opposed to cash payments.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister despite your elaborate answer, the House was not paying attention to your reply, but I noticed the hon. Member for Nalolo has a follow up question.

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, the response has been fully accepted. I am happy about it.

Laughter

TEACHER-PUPIL RATIO IN BASIC AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN ZAMBIA

 315. Dr Machungwa asked the Minister of education:

(a) what the teacher-pupil ratio in the following Government schools in the nine provinces of Zambia is:

(i) basic schools; and 
(ii) secondary schools; and

(b) what reasons account for the differences at (a) above.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the following are the average pupil-teacher ratios:

Grades              Teacher/Pupil Ratio

Grade 1 - 4        1 to 75. 
Grade 5 - 7        1 to 35.8. 
Grade 8 - 9        1 to 32.6. 
Grade 10 - 12    1 to 19.4.

Mr Speaker, in the past, staffing levels in most schools, especially those in rural areas, were very low. However, in the recent past, between 2005 and 2007, the Ministry has started recruiting more teachers and deploying the teachers equitably to reduce inadequate staffing levels. In 2005, 5,000 teachers were recruited, in 2006, 7,100 were recruited and in 2007, 10,300 were recruited.

Mr Speaker, this is a continuous process of ensuring that teachers are employed. With the impact of more teachers being employed, the teacher-pupil ratio has improved. However, some teachers are still resisting to work in the rural areas where their services are needed most. Deliberate measures are being made to post teachers where the pupil- teacher ratio is high.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his answer, cleverly skirted around giving ratios for provinces and just gave aggregates. However, he points out that the ratios in the rural areas are worse. What mechanism, really, is his Ministry employing to ensure that the status quo will not continue to the disadvantage of pupils in the rural areas?

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, in our response, we stated that deliberate measures are put in place to ensure that the equity criterion in the recruitment of teachers is effected with a bias to rural areas. This will ensure that we have sufficient teachers for the rural areas which will offset the current teacher/pupil ratio imbalances.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and welcome back to the House.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Before I ask my question, I would like to commend my fellow headteacher and the Ministry for facilitating the construction of teacher’s houses at the new schools and the rehabilitation of so many other schools I hope he has now listened to the cry of the people. God bless him and congratulations.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: I know that the official ratio of contact at the Grade 1 to 7 level is forty. If the headteacher had to recruit more, he was supposed to get permission from the inspector of schools to allow him or her recruit an extra five pupils to make the total number forty-five. At the high school level, the ratio of teacher/pupil contact is forty-five. In the event that there is much more demand for places and you have to apply to the inspectorate to allow you recruit only five to equate the number to forty, I would like to find out from the hard working hon. Minister …

Mr Munaile: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: … when the policy directive was amended to allow for seventy-five as the contact ratio in basic schools.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Bahati for his compliments. Indeed, we are working very hard to ensure that there is access to education for all our people.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, there has not been any amendments to the provisions that the hon. Member has outlined. What we have, at the moment, is a situation whereby various factors that affect the teacher-pupil ratios are at play. Of course, one of the variables is the availability of sufficient teachers in our schools so that the teacher-pupil ratio is adhered to according to the policy guidelines. However, in the absence of the sufficient numbers of teachers, we have a situation that is currently affecting the ratio at the levels that have been highlighted.

Mr Speaker, in addition to that, we have factors such as the current policy which is directed at ensuring that all seven-year old children are enrolled in Grade 1 and that is clearly impacting on the teacher-pupil ratios because enrolments are increasing.

Mr Speaker, apart from that, we have factors such as the high levels of urbanisation in our country, with Zambia being the third most urbanised country in Africa. The concentration of people in urban areas is a factor that is impacting on the teacher-pupil ratios because of the demand for school places.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, given the theoretical scenario that the best chances for students’ education are cultivated in the initial years of learning, why is the Ministry not addressing the teacher-pupil ratios more urgently at the basic school level than perhaps it is with other levels or institutions? Is there a policy to address this question urgently because that is what affects the future possibilities of a child’s education?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, clearly, the hon. Member for Chienge is in line with the recent developments in psychology. The head start in schools is extremely important and this is mainly the formative years of schooling, especially at the lower basic grade levels. We are aware of that and it is in this line that we are giving attention to the recruitment of more teachers for the basic education sector. That is why, for example, the recruitment process that has taken place over the past three year, was weighed more heavily towards the basic education sector as compared to the other levels of the education system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, welcome back to the House. I would like to find out whether the Government is not at fault to send married teachers who have spouses in urban areas to rural areas who, in turn, come back to join their husbands and leave vacancies in the rural areas. What is the Government doing to avoid such a scenario?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, application for employment in the education sector is an individual’s choice. The preferences that are given in the applications are based on the choices of the individual. If somebody who is married opts to go and work in Kaputa, for example, and leaves the family in Lusaka, that is an individual’s choice over which, as a Ministry, we have no control.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, early this year, during the Budget and Presidential Addresses, this House was assured that the Government was going to recruit more teachers. I think we were told that 5,000 teachers would be recruited. I would like to find out whether this recruitment exercise has started and if not, what the cause of the delay is?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the recruitment exercise will soon commence and we are expecting the District Education Board Secretaries (DEBS) to gather in Lusaka and undertake the exercise of recruiting 5,000 teachers as the net recruitment. Later on, a replacement recruitment will be undertaken.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I think the Government knows the reasons new teachers do not go to the rural areas when they are posted there. The living conditions there are very bad. I would like to find out what the Government is doing to improve the living conditions for teachers so that they can be enticed to teach in the rural areas?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, clearly, this is a question that comes over and over again in this House and we have given answers again and again. The disparity between the rural and urban areas is, of course, a characteristic of our country and it impacts not only on teachers but also on various sectors in our society. In the education sector, there are many factors that we are taking into account. For example, we have the rural hardship allowances which are paid to those working in the rural areas. We also have loans which we deliberately give to those working in the rural areas.

Mr Speaker, apart from that, we have housing schemes which are deliberately skewed towards the rural areas. For example, this year, we are in the process of constructing 228 houses for teachers, most of them skewed towards the rural sectors. In addition to that, we ensure that schools that we are constructing have amenities that are conducive for teachers, such as provision of solar energy and various other facilities. All these are efforts which are aimed at making the rural sector, from the education point of view, more attractive and comfortable for teachers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, can the hardworking hon. Minister, in the eyes of Hon. Chimbaka, …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … confirm that one of the reasons that have led to the poor teacher-pupil ratio is the failure by the Ministry to resolve the problems at the University of Zambia where we are supposed to get a high number of teachers to teach in basic and secondary schools and colleges in Zambia.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, in the eyes of the hon. Member for Monze, there is an acknowledgement that there is no failure but success in what we are doing. Clearly, the training of teachers for our education sector is not only taking place at the University of Zambia, but also in the fourteen colleges of education as well as other training institutions. The training that takes place at the University of Zambia is only for the high school sector and not basic education sector. I am sure that the hon. Member for Monze is aware of that, but of course, I know where he is heading to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how many teachers we need for us to have a normal teacher/pupil ratio and also where we are as a nation in that ratio?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, education is a growing sector and we have a continuous process of enrolment of pupils every year. Therefore, it is extremely difficult for now to say precisely how many teachers we need because of the increasing numbers of pupils in the sector. However, the figures that have been given are where we are as a nation in terms of the average pupil/teacher ratio.

I thank you, Sir.

DAMAGED BRIDGES ON THE COPPERBELT

316. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how many bridges were washed away by  heavy rains on the Copperbelt during the 2007/2008 rainy season, district by district; and

(b) how many of the bridges at (a) above had since been re-constructed and at what cost.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the following bridges, culverts and other river crossing structures were damaged during the 2007/2008 rainy season on the Copperbelt:

S/N District        Name of Road                           Name of River          Type of            Estimated cost (ZMK
                                                                                                            structure  
1.0 Ndola           Kavu                                        Mukulungwe             Embarkment      122,000,000.00
2.0 Ndola           Madando                                  Twapya                    Culvert              35,000,000.00
3.0 Masaiti         Mushili  Munkilungwe Culvert   1,200,000.00
4.0 Masaiti  Chiwala  Chiwala  Culvert   120,000,000.00
5.0 Masaiti  Saka  Kafubu  Footbridge  160,000,000.00
6.0 Masaiti  Off D201 Kafulafuta Culvert   40,000,000.00
7.0 Masaiti  Off D201 Kafulafuta Makeshift bridge  120,000,000.00
8.0 Masaiti  Off D201 Kafulafuta Culvert   60,000,000.00
9.0 Masaiti  Off D201   Culvert   80,000,000.00
10.0 Kitwe  President Matemate Culvert   60,000,000.00
11.0 Luansnhya Guest house Luanshya Footbridge  150,000,000.00
12.0 Mpongwe Road  Ibenga  Culvert   25,000,000.00
13. Mpongwe Chilabula Bwandaila Culvert   15,000,000.00
14.0 Mpongwe Chinondo Chipala  Culvert   30,000,000.00
15.0 Mpongwe Kasamba Chitula  Makeshift  80,000,000.00
16.0 Mpongwe Ibenga  Chinua  Footbridge  110,000,000.00
17.0 Mpongwe Kasamba  Mikumpo Culvert   130,000,000.00
18.0 Chingola Chitula  Lulamba  Culvert   40,000,000.00
19.0 Chingola Mosuku  Lulamba  Culvert   25,000,000.00
20.0 Chingola         30,000,000.00
21.0 Chingola Kalenda  Lulamba  Culvert   40,000,000.00
22.0 Chingola Fipuva  Lulamba  Culvert   40,000,000.00
   Luangwa Lulamba  Culvert   25,000,000.00
   Fisongwe Kaulo  -   30,000,000.00
   Kapisha  Lulamba  Culvert   40,000,000.00
   Mupitashi Lulamba  Culvert   40,000,000.00
Total           1,648,200,000.00 

The Road Development Agency is in the process of preparing tender documents for the maintenance of the Munkulungwe Bridge on the Mushili Road. It is expected that the works will commence by October, 2008. The Road Development Agency (RDA) has requested funds from the National Road Fund Agency. There is a provision of K750,000,000.00 in the 2008 Annual Work Plan of the Road Development Agency for emergencies.

 The RDA, in July, 2008 submitted all the above mentioned bridges/culverts to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the office of the Vice-President for funding. The Action Plan for the implementation of the programme to repair the washed away river crossings has been prepared jointly by DMMU and RDA.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is a pity that I did not get the answer to part (b) of the Question properly, but I would like to ask a further question. Why is it that one of the important bridges in Kantanshi was not repaired despite an inspection being carried out? Why should you inspect and repair foot bridge in Mpongwe at K15 million which can be repaired using the Constituency Development Fund, and yet you fail to repair an important bridge which takes our food and other commodities to Kantanshi and the town centre in Mufulira?

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for notifying us on the bridge. However, we would like to inform him that we shall include it in the 2009 Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, why has the delay taken place to repair the road in Kantanshi when the equipment for repairing roads is rusting and rotting at the Independence Stadium. Can we have the specific answer why the equipment is not distributed to the district to repair the roads that were damaged?

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, concerning the equipment, we are still training the operators and still putting logistics in place. We are hoping by the end of this month, the equipment will be sent to the premises so that we start working on the roads.

I thank you, Sir.
   
Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, the stretch between Serenje and Nakonde has well over fifty bridges. Out of these bridges, three are in dire need of repairs, namely Lwitikila over the Lwitikila River, Kabale over the Kabale Stream and Chinsali over the Lubu River. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply what measures the Ministry has put in place to attend to these now looking dangerous crossing points to avert disaster.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, thank you for that concern from the hon. Member. There is already an answer concerning the Great North Road and there are plans in place. The works that will be carried out on this road will include any road, furniture and crossings that are supposed to be on this road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure the people of Nchanga that the four bridges that were washed away during the rainy season will be repaired? Before you interrupted the hon. Minister, he gave an estimate of K40 million. Kapisha and Mupintashi Bridges lead to the peri-urban areas of Nchanga Constituency. In fact, this is nearly the end of August and the result of my follow up to the offices is that there is no money. I would like the hon. Minister to assure the people of Nchanga that these bridges leading to the peri-urban areas of my constituency where all the agricultural activities take place will be tarred before the rainy season.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the bridges and roads that are washed away due to rains are really the responsibility of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit which falls under the Office of the Vice-President. Our work as Ministry of Works and Supply is to assist the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit by giving them the estimates and at the end of our input, the Vice-President’s Office decides whether to give us money to carry out these jobs or they will themselves award the contracts to do the jobs. As Ministry of Works and Supply, we have provided the information as requested by the Office of the Vice-President. That is as far as our mandate goes on the infrastructure damaged by rains.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister using the word “damage” many times. What is the meaning of damage?

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it means disfiguring. Others call it washed away, disfigured or whatever happens to the bridge that is not supposed to happen to it rendering it not operational or unusable.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister and his Ministry are moving to repair these bridges on the Copperbelt and connecting the districts, can he assure this House and the nation that he will proceed expeditiously to ensure that Luapula is connected with a bridge that is there already, particularly now that funding for tarring the Pedicle Road will be provided so that transport in the Copperbelt, Luapula and the Northern Provinces can be assured of moving smoothly?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I thought we were answering questions related to bridges. I do not see a bridge on the Pedicle Road per se, but for the sake of the hon. Member’s concern, as a Government, we are interested in tarring that road and we will ensure the road is tarred for the well being of the people moving from the Luapula Province to the Copperbelt Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in the response to hon. Muyanda’s question, the hon. Minister indicated that the equipment at the Independence Stadium was awaiting training of personnel to operate it. Could the hon. Minister, please, explain to me the levels of sophistication of this same equipment to allow me understand whether or not in the forty-four years of independence, we do not have people who can operate front wielders, bull dozers, caterpillars and so on and so forth?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, thank you for that question, but if we had the personnel readily available, we would not be talking about training people. Sometime last year, we advertised to see how many people in this country could operate this equipment and it was a disaster to find out that there were very few. It is for this reason that the National Council for Construction (NCC) decided to introduce a course for earth moving equipment. However, that was before we bought the equipment. Most of the people the hon. Member might have in mind have either grown too old or have died. We had very few people who could operate this equipment when it came in. We picked everyone who was available, but we still need more people. Additionally, this equipment did not arrive at once. It has been coming in batches and the last bit of it which are the bull dozers are still on their way.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

AFRICAN PEER REVIEW MECHANISM

317. Mr Lubinda asked the Minister of justice;

(a) since Zambia’s accession to the African peer Review Mechanism (APRM), how much money the Government had allocated to this process, year by year.

(b) whether there were programmes and interactions the Government had undertaken in order to prepare for the APRM and, if so, what the cost of each programme and interaction was; and

(c) what the cost of hosting the awareness workshop for Members of Parliament on the APRM held on 3rd May, 2008 was and what the breakdown costs were.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I must say, at the outset, that the function of managing the APRM process was only transferred to my Ministry late last year. For that reason, I am unable to give some of the figures.

Since Zambia’s accession to the African Peer Review Mechanism, the Government has allocated the following amounts of money, year by year.

Year    Amount (K)

2006                     Nil
2007        122,546,473.00
2008 10,000,000,000.00

Programmes

The Government has undertaken various programmes and interactions in order to prepare for the APRM. Some of these are as follows:

(i) 7th to 8th December, 2008 to allow the staff from the APRM Continental Secretariat in South Africa to advise on the structures that Zambia needs to put in place prior to receiving the support mission. This was an advance mission which we hosted;

(ii) The Government organised an APRM national brainstorming session from 22nd to 24th August, 2007, as a consultative platform through which stakeholders would interact, discuss and chat the way forward on the establishment of the APRM national structures and agree on the APRM roadmap for Zambia. The participants who were drawn from a wide range of stakeholders, including Government ministries and departments, civil society organisations, faith-based organisations, academic institutions, trade unions, professional bodies,and political parties, attended;

(iii) the Government hosted Dr Gracia Machel from 10th to 12th September, 2007. As the APR Panel lead member for Zambia’s Country Review Mission, she visited the country to learn about Zambia’s preparations to embark on the APRM process; and

(iv) Zambia also participated in the Heads of State and Government Forum held on 30th January, 2008, in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to review Benin, Ghana, Rwanda and Kenya on their National Programmes of Action.

As for the last question on the seminar held for Members of Parliament, Mr Speaker, if I went into the details of the total amount spent on the seminar and the breakdown, it would be tantamount to discussing ourselves in the Chamber. I am, therefore, unable to give this information.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, in (b) of the Question, I asked for the programmes and the cost for each of the programmes and that has nothing to do with part (c) of the Question. I hope the hon. Minister can give me information on that. Further, could he confirm or deny the fact that of all the countries that have participated in the Africa Peer Review Mechanism, Zambia is the one with the largest National Governance Council with forty-seven members.
Lastly, could he tell the House what he is doing to ensure that Parliament is also represented on the National Governing Council, like other countries which have gone through this?

Mr Kunda, SC.: The only amount which we handled as a Ministry was K122, 546,000 in 2007 which covered those programmes.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the size of the National Governing Council, we have all the statistics on this. The biggest National Governing Council was made up of ninety-nine members. Therefore, a council of forty-seven members is not the largest. That is not true. We only want to be all inclusive.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

318. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Education:

(a) why the Government decided to handover the running of Chipili High School and Chipili Basic School in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency to the Anglican Church;

(b) who owned the two schools above;

(c) how much the Anglican Church intended to invest in the two schools;

(d) what the status of the teachers at the above schools was; and

(e) whether the local communities were consulted prior to the hand over of the schools to the Anglican Church.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the two named institutions were constructed and run by the Church before independence. After independence, the Government took over all the schools that were run by the Church. However, in 1993, under Statutory Instrument No.43 ….

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Sinyinda: Before business was suspended, I was saying that the two named institutions were constructed and run by the Church before independence. After independence, the Government took over all the schools that were run by the Church. However, in 1993, under Statutory Instrument No. 43, the Government allowed the churches which were ready to repossess their former institutions and run them on a grant aided basis. The Anglican Church, in 2001, therefore, requested to take over the management of the two institutions.

As for part (b) of the Question, following the handover of the schools to the Church on 30th of April, 2008, the Church now runs the schools.

As regards part (c) of the Question, it is up to the Church to decide how much it is going to invest in improving the schools. However, the Government will support the schools as grant-aided institutions. Under this arrangement, the Church meets 25 per cent while the Government meets the remaining 75 per cent of the costs.

With regard to part (d) of the Question, all teachers employed by the Government remain Government teachers and continue to enjoy all the benefits enjoyed by other teachers in Government schools.

Lastly, in regard to part (e) of the Question, the communities were consulted through the District Education Board Office and the school administration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, does the Government have any intentions to construct a Government High School, considering the distance, for example, from Mwenda to Chipili which is about thirty to forty kilometers?
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the Government will construct a high school in the constituency when funds are made available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has any intentions of assisting the Anglican Church to improve the standards at these schools.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, that is what we said in our answer. We said that the Government is contributing 75 per cent towards the running of the schools and the Church is contributing only 25 per cent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

319. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how many public servants were arrested by the Anti-Corruption Commission and the Task Force on Corruption for abuse of office by awarding contracts without the approval of the Zambia National Tender Board from 2001 to 2007;
 
 (b) what the names of the public servants at (a) were; and

 (c) what the court decisions on the offences at (a) above were.

Mr Kunda, SC.: Mr Speaker, there were fifteen public servants who were arrested by the Anti-Corruption Commission for abuse of office from 2001 to 2007 due to failure to follow tender procedures.

The Task Force on Corruption is only dealing with offences committed between 1992 and 2001 and not between 2001 and 2007. Therefore, the Task Force on Corruption is irrelevant to your question.

As regard parts (b) and (c) of the Question, I am unable to mention the names of the cited civil servants and give details of the decision made by the courts as that would be tantamount to discussing court cases contrary to the rules of this august House. Further, the civil servants concerned are not Members of this august House and cannot, therefore, defend themselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many civil servants have been sentenced to prison or punished in one way or another without mentioning their names.

Mr Kunda, SC.: Mr Speaker, I said, I am not giving those details.

I thank you, Sir.

CLEANLINESS OF AREAS SURROUNDING SHOPS

Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when the Ministry would compel shop owners countrywide to maintain clean surroundings, including shop corridors, in line with the Keep Zambia Clean Campaign; and 
(b) whether the Ministry had plans to conduct inspection tours in order to enhance levels of hygiene of residences in both rural and urban areas countrywide.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House as follows:

(a) my Ministry has already issued directives to all councils in the country through the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme to compel all shop owners and other residents to maintain clean surroundings. The Ministry has also issued several Statutory Instruments to regulate the committing of public nuisance and the prohibition of smoking in public places. These are all intended at backing the campaign to Make Zambia Clean and Healthy.

Mr Speaker, the response from councils has been overwhelming, as some of them have formed tasks forces on the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign. Shop owners, communities and council departments are part of these task forces. To further reinforce the campaign, councils have also been directed to encourage shop owners to have waste bins. They have also been advised to provide waste bins at public places such as markets.

In addition, councils have been sensitising the residents on the need to keep their surroundings clean by distributing notices reminding residents of their duty to be clean and live in a clean environment; and

(b) Mr Speaker, my Ministry has bought 150 vehicles that have been distributed to all councils for use in the inspection and in garbage collection in order to enhance levels of hygiene of residences in both rural and urban areas countrywide.
Sir, officials from my Ministry will continue to visit districts and during these visits, they will encourage councils to effectively implement the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme which includes the aspect of hygiene.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, there is a saying that goes cleanliness is next to godliness. I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister why, during holidays and weekends, most of our streets in cities are dirty. What is the Ministry doing to bring to an end this kind of situation?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, indeed, cleanliness is next to godliness. The Ministry has introduced the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign which is multi-sectoral in nature and has a lot of activities that will reduce untidiness in public places. This programme is for all days. It is supposed to be implemented and internalised at the household level, community places such as churches, schools or villages. Therefore, with regard to cleanliness, we have directed councils to ensure that this programme is implemented. During the implementation process, there will be no weekends or holidays because these places are supposed to be kept clean at all times.

Additionally, in accordance with the second schedule of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia, in particular, function No. 31, Sub Section 1(c) and (d) gives the local authorities powers to ensure that these places are kept clean and tidy. This is regardless of the day and where they are located. Therefore, through the implementation of that Act, I do not think there will be any day when people will not clean their surroundings because it is a holiday. We would like this to be internalised. With the support of the hon. Members of Parliament, come end of this year, a lot of activities would have been internalised in all organisations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the Keep Zambia Clean and healthy Campaign should not be for councils only. I would like to find out what the Ministry is doing to ensure that the Government departments or offices are also clean. If you go in a Government office at 0815 hours, you will find that the office is still locked and the office orderly has not reported. When he or she reports, he will only make tea and move files from one office to another. The outside of the Government departments is an eyesore. What are you doing about this?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I can rest assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola that the Government is doing its best to implement the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme just like any other organisation would. I would like to give you an example of our own Ministry. If you look back three years ago, the Ministry did not look the way it does now.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Dr Kazonga: Going by this example, you will notice that the Government is committed to ensuring that this programme succeeds even in other places. All the departments are striving to ensure that they are kept clean. If you visit the Office Equipment offices, around the Ridgeway Campus, you will see what it means to keep the offices and surroundings clean. That is evidence that the Government is doing what other organisations and individuals are supposed to do to implement the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the work being done by the Ministry. However, I would like to find out how the Ministry has involved traditional leaders such as chiefs and indunas in the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme. Sir, bearing in mind that about 60 to 70 per cent of the disease burden in rural areas such as malaria and diarrhoea is environmentally borne, if these people are involved, how are they being encouraged and what are the positive indicators to this.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, traditional leaders are partners in development and this particular programme does not exclude them. I remember when I was responding to the question, I said the programme also involves villages and the people responsible for these villages are traditional leaders. We have tried to educate the traditional leaders. When they come to the House of Chiefs, we also take advantage of the meetings to enlighten them on what this programme entails. I am sure that as we go along, a lot of people will internalise the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign at the village level. This entails cleaning the surrounding, having nice facilities for sanitation and so on and so forth. Some of these indicators may not be seen immediately. It will take some time before we can see positive indicators in terms of success.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what we are going to do about councils that will not perform according to their expectations. I say so because there are some councils that have been very slow in implementing this programme.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the legal framework, in particular, the local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia, indicates what the councils are supposed to do. If we see that some local authorities are resisting the programme, we have so many options to correct the situation. We do not want to go to the extent of the West where we can start withholding grants and so on and so forth. We want to continuously educate the councils and make them aware that they are supposed to implement the programme. After all, it is for the betterment of the communities. Local Government, by its nature, was supposed to provide services to the community.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Quality!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this House that 150 vehicles have been bought and distributed one per constituency. Is he aware that some of the vehicles that have been distributed to the constituencies are of a wrong type in the sense that they are not suitable for the terrain in these constituencies, such as Zambezi West, which are sandy and need four wheel drive vehicles? I am saying so because a vehicle that is not four wheel drive has been sent to Zambezi West. Now that he is aware, is he going to replace them?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware about the different terrain in the country. We are aware that the Western Province and part of the North-Western Province, in particular Zambezi, have a lot of sand. We had advised the councils to have taken a little consideration of that particular aspect. At the moment, we do not have the intention to withdraw vehicles that are not appropriate for the terrain. We just have to use the ones that are available within their limited capacity.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, how much money has been spent on the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign Programme from the time it started. Further, are we getting the desired goals from this programme?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to give the actual figure of how much has been spent on the programme because my Ministry is one of the players. You will find that our main philosophy has been that this programme has to be internalised in different institutions and at the individual level. It is difficult to determine how much has been spent on implementing the programme at the individual, village, church, school levels. Therefore, I cannot give the total amount that has been spent on this programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme is a replica of the Keep Northern-Rhodesia Clean Campaign and was backed by the Native Ordinance. The provisos in the Act were that anybody who failed to comply by the directives was either incarcerated or punished for failure to put up a toilet or anything of this sort. Now that the Keep Zambia Clean and  Healthy Campaign seems not to be realising the objectives, does the hon. Minister have intentions of reactivating the ordinance such that chiefs and village headmen have powers to ensure that people who do not comply with directives of the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy  Programme are punished?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, we are not going to use that model. We are using a different approach of the ensuring that firstly, we educate the people as much as we can. I wish to confirm the House that so far, we have seen tremendous improvement in the implementation of the programme. Some places have really improved. Some people are trying to work on certain public places. Water Supply and Sanitation is worked on and these are all linked to the programme. I feel that the programme is succeeding, but we still have a long way to go as you may know that we have to change people’s mind sets and that takes some time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how he hopes the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme to succeed on the Copperbelt when the company charged with the responsibility of collecting garbage is so ill-equipped?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, for one to adequately solve a problem, firstly, it must be acknowledged. Thereafter, the implementation has to be designed. As a Government, we know that there was a problem on the Copperbelt, hence the creation of the Waste Management Company. As a new company, the beginning is usually difficult, but what is important is the commitment to the direction of solving that particular problem. Therefore, the Government is committed to ensuring that the company will be able to perform according to the mandate that it has been given. I am sure, as we progress, two to three years from now, we should be able to achieve what we have indicated as our desired objective.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in view of the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what his Ministry is doing to engage the Ministry of Works and Supply or Ministry of Transport and Communications in collecting bodies of dead dogs on the highways throughout the country.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme is multi-sectoral. Therefore, the issue of picking dead dogs and so on and so forth is part of the responsibilities under public health. Even in the functions that are articulated in the Act, this is part of the public health issues that our local authorities are supposed to attend to. This is a reminder to the councils and through the hon. Member of Parliament, I am sure the message can also go to the councils.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

AUDIT INSPECTIONS OF ZAMBIAN MISSIONS ABROAD

321. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

(a) when audit inspections of the Zambian Missions abroad were last carried out;

(b) what the findings of the audit inspections were; and

(c) which Zambian Missions were found with most anomalies.

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Professor Phiri): Mr Speaker, the latest audit inspections carried out in the Zambian Missions abroad were this year, 2008. This was in the following Missions:

(i) Dar-es-Salaam;
(ii) Maputo;
(iii) Pretoria;
(iv) Paris;
(v) Beijing; and 
(vi) Tokyo.

The rest of the missions were audited between 2004 and 2007, as indicated on the attached schedule.

Mr Speaker, the findings of the audit inspections are listed against each mission on the attached schedule. However, generally, the findings relate to breach of procedure and were not criminal in nature. These include the following:

(i) delayed banking;
(ii) unretired imprest;
(iii) unauthorised expenditure;
(iv) unauthorised bank overdrafts;
(v) unrecovered advances of salary; and 
(vi) breach of tender regulations
 
Mr Speaker, the missions with the most audit queries are also reflected on the attached schedule. However, the missions with the highest number of queries are As follows:

Mission  No. of Queries
Maputo    9
Luanda    8 
Pretoria    7 
New York   7
Addis Ababa   6

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Professor Phiri laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, before our Head of State fell ill, and I wish him a quick recovery, he pronounced that there was misuse of funds at the Maputo Mission. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the statement issued by His Excellency, the President, was incorrect.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Pande): Mr Speaker, when His Excellency the President said that there was abuse of funds at the Maputo Mission, this included unretired imprest, irregular recruitment and travelling without authority. Basically, that is what he was referring to.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, was extremely annoyed with the leadership of almost every high commission and embassy representing Zambia abroad. He indicated that there was misappropriation, abuse and total lack of accountability of funds in most of the institutions. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs whether there has been a breakdown pertaining to the supervision by his officers in the foreign missions.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, there has been no breakdown of supervision by officers in the missions. When His Excellency the President mentioned this at the time, we got concerned. As a Government, we noticed that there were a number of irregularities, most of which were administrative. This is one of the reasons we recalled all the heads of missions from abroad to re-emphasise the need to be prudent in the administration of public funds. I would like to assure this august House that anybody found misusing public funds in the missions abroad will be visited by the law.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, in answer to his question, the hon. Deputy Minister said that the shortcomings were procedural rather than criminal in nature. Would he accept that the shortcomings that he highlighted are, in fact, breach of the Public Finance Act that was passed by this House? Breach of the law that is passed by this House is, in fact, criminal and therefore,  the irregularities he stipulated such as delayed banking, non-retirement of imprest, and so on and so forth are actually breach of the law, and therefore, criminal.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, in every case that comes up, we look at the magnitude. For instance, if the case relates to delay in paying imprest, usually, we will ask the officer to pay. Sometimes, some of the officers request to refund, and therefore, such cases will not be termed as being criminal.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

AUDIT INSPECTION OF LUKULU DISTRICT COUNCIL PROJECTS
 
322. Mr Imenda (Lukulu East) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:
 
(a) whether the Lukulu District Council was in a position to give a supervisory report after deducting 10 per cent of the total Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation in 2007;

(b) what the findings of the Ministry’s inspection of the Lukulu District Council projects and similar projects in the country were; and

(c) when the accounts for the Lukulu District Council were last audited.

Mr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Lukulu District Council is not in a position to give a supervisory report after deducting 10 per cent of the total Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation for 2007, which translates to K40 million, meant for monitoring the implementation of CDF projects in two constituencies.

According to the audit inspection that was carried out recently, there are glaring irregularities in the use of public resources by the Council management. My Ministry is in possession of this report and the culprits will be dealt with in accordance with the provisions of Section 57 of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, as indicated in part (a) of the Question above, the audit inspection report dated 2nd June, 2008, has revealed very serious irregularities, not only in the management and utilisation of CDF but also in the management of projects funded from other council resources. With regard to other councils, I wish to state that some councils are doing well, while others are not.

Mr Speaker, the accounts for the Lukulu District Council have been audited up to the Financial Year ended 31st December, 2006 in accordance with the provisions of Section 52 (1) of the Local Government Act Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia. The audit findings are contained in the Statutory Audit Report on the Accounts of the Council and Audit Inspection Report on the utilisation of the Constituency Development Fund for the period 1st January to 31st December, 2006 addressed to the Council Chairman and councillors of the Lukulu District Council for their study and action on the audit findings in accordance with the provisions of Sections 56 of the Local Government Act Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, auditing of councils is an ongoing exercise and the Ministry will, before the end of this year, commission Statutory Audits for the Financial Year ended 31st December, 2007 in all the seventy-two local authorities.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s submission, there has never been a supervisory report for 2007. Apart from that, there was a deduction of K40 million from the CDF. That being the case, is the Council in a position to refund the money so that it is channeled towards developmental projects?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, indeed, the 10 per cent that was deducted, which amounted to K40 million for the two constituencies in Lukulu District, was supposed to be used for a specific purpose, but this was not the case. In accordance with the financial regulations and general financial management, there is a case that needs to be acted on. The Ministry has already written to the Council Chairman in Lukulu, together with the Councillors because ideally, after the inspection report or whatever audit is carried out, the council is supposed to be availed with that audit report so that they take appropriate action and make a submission to the Minister of Local Government and Housing indicating the issues raised in the report that should be addressed. In the absence of this, the hon. Minister and the Government will take up appropriate action to the councils that do not use the money in the manner they are supposed to.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MEASURES TAKEN BY THE GOVERNMENT TO TACKLE THE ADVERSE IMPACT OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE IN THE COUNTRY

323. Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) what measures the Government had taken to tackle the adverse impact of climate change in the country;

(b) what partnership agreements within the SADC Region and the international community were planned to address the challenges of climate change; and

(c) whether there were Government policies which ensured that the problem at (a) above were addressed and if so, what were they.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the Government is taking the issue of climate change seriously, as its adverse impact has the potential to reverse economic gains that we have made so far, including in the area of poverty reduction.

In this regard, the Government has taken several measures to ensure that the impacts do not frustrate our development programmes. In the first place, the Government has formulated a National Adaptation Programme of Action (NAPA), a document that has identified sectors of our economy that are most vulnerable to the adverse impacts of climate change.

These sectors include agriculture, water and energy natural resources such as forestry, wildlife and human health. With the experiences that we have had with the flooding situation, one can add issues related to infrastructure such as road network and public as well as private buildings. After this identification, the NAPA recommends intervention measures that will ensure that we reduce the impact these may have on the economy. These intervention measures are expected to be implemented in the identified sectors to ensure we safeguard development and people’s livelihood.

For these measures to be embraced widely so as to promote their implementation, the Government, through my Ministry, has widely circulated the NAPA to relevant Government line ministries, including hon. Members of this august House.

In addition, the Government, through my Ministry, has undertaken countrywide public education and awareness creation to empower people with practical information on climate change and its impacts as it is the people in the grassroots communities who are likely to be impacted by climate change. As such, intervention measures to safeguard their livelihood will largely be undertaken by themselves.

Mr Speaker, coming to part (b) of the Question, climate change is a global challenge which cannot be addressed by any single country, but only through concerted efforts with the international community. As such, Zambia is party to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and its Kyoto Protocol. These are the principal international instruments for addressing the challenge that climate change poses to sustainable development.

Within the SADC Region, climate change is a priority topic of discussion and collaboration through the SADC Ministers of Environment Meetings and other fora. Currently, there are discussions going on to formulate a SADC Region Programme on climate change.

However, details of what this programme will consist of are yet to be worked out through discussions within the region.

Mr Speaker, the Government has put in place the National Policy on Environment (NPE) which provides an umbrella framework for dealing with environmental challenges, including climate change and its impact. This policy provides for the management of the environment in a sustainable manner to ensure that development efforts do not compromise the integrity of ecosystems.

Mr Speaker, in the area of adapting to the adverse impacts of climate change, the National Adaptation Programme of Action I alluded to earlier is another Government policy document that has been drafted to address adverse impacts of climate change.

However, as this is an emerging issue, the Government has not yet formulated a specific policy to exclusively address climate change.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, in order to address the potential side effects of climate change, the Government requires a lot of financial resources. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister whether his Ministry has introduced a specific budget line in order to translate the same measure into action.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, we have not introduced a budget line, as the former Permanent Secretary, Hon. Kasongo is suggesting, …

Laughter

Hon. Member: Tell him!

Mr Kaingu: … however, climate change is a very serious problem affecting the whole world today, including Zambia. Our co-operating partners are sympathising with us. I should state here that the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the Finnish and Norwegian Governments have put money together to help us fight and mitigate the effects of climate change.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, realising that climate change is a very important topic, could I know what the Government is doing to address this important issue instead of depending on donor funds?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, on our own, really, it is not easy to mitigate against the effects of climate change. That is why through the United Nations Framework on Climate Change, the Government is working with the co-operating partners. We are not begging, but are working with them for capacity building, technology transfer and transfer of financial resources. Therefore, it is not true that we are going to them to beg. We are working with them. The co-operating partners are not only working with Zambia.

As you aware, Mr Speaker, climate change affects the whole world. Therefore, it is a deliberate policy by the United Nations Framework on Climate Change to transfer resources, technology and capacity building to various nations. It is a new phenomenon and most people do not really know how to handle it, that is why we are working with the co-operating partners to get these resources.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, could the Hon. Minister, please, inform me what this Government, together with other governments in the SADC Region, and indeed, on the continent, are doing in order to circumvent the emissions of green house gases in other continents that are the primary culprits for the current phenomenon of global warming and I am making reference to America, Europe and India?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, through the Kyoto Protocol, the Government, through my Ministry is encouraging the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) Campaign so that companies which are emitting a lot of green house gases are encouraged to use clean methods of doing business.

I thank you, Sir.

NUMBER OF HIGH SCHOOLS OFFERING INDUSTRIAL ARTS AS A SUBJECT

324. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) how many high schools countrywide offered industrial arts as a subject, province by province; and

(b) why the above subject was not taught in all schools in Zambia.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the number of schools offering industrial arts as a subject is as follows:

 NAME OF PROVINCE NO. OF HIGH SCHOOLS

                             Copperbelt 36
                                Luapula  07
Western  10
                             North Western 11
 Central 15
 Lusaka 12
 Eastern     22
Northern  09
 Southern 15
 Total                                               137

The reason the above subject is not taught in Zambia is that, there are a few trained teachers from Teaching Vocational Training Centres. National In-Service College (NISTCO) trained teachers are not competent to teach in high schools because the college offers a primary school diploma, hence the content is only limited to that level. Other reasons are; inadequate infrastructure, inadequate teaching and learning resources that is, equipment, tools, materials, chemicals and texts books and also because the equipment supplied by the World Bank more than twenty years ago had either been vandalised or had become obsolete.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in the late 1980s, the Finnish Government, through the Finnish Development Agency (FINNIDA) donated a number of industrial arts tools to primary schools. At that time, a number of teachers were trained to teach the subject. Could I know whether these industrial arts tools, which were donated, are still available in schools?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, in our answer, we stated that some of the equipment had been vandalised or become obsolete and therefore, resulting in a shortage of such equipment in schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, has the Ministry of Education got any plans to seriously take industrial arts as a subject so that a pupil, after Grade 12, can proceed to do a course in college even if he or she fails other subjects but passes industrial arts?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the Ministry is seriously considering a comprehensive review of the curriculum and this year, we have planned a national Curriculum Symposium. Following this symposium, there will be a critical look at the place of industrial and technical subjects in our school system so that they become effective areas of preparing our workforce. We are, indeed, planning and thinking along that line.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Misapa (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, Hon. Minister has covered everything in the question I wanted to ask.

OPERATING GEMSTONE MINES IN LUNDAZI

325. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) how many gemstone mines were in operation in Lundazi District;

(b) how many types of gemstones were found in Lundazi District;

(c) how much revenue was ploughed back into the local community by the gemstone mines at (a) above;

(d) how much revenue the Government earned from gemstone mines at (a) above from 2005 to 2007; and

(e) what efforts had been made to improve gemstone mining in Lundazi District.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, a total of fifty one mining rights have been granted in Lundazi District and are still valid. These have been broken down as follows:

(i) Gemstone licences  43
(ii) Artisans Mining Rights   8
Total 51

Mr Speaker, out of a total of forty-three gemstone licences, eight mines are operational. Out of the eight artisan mining rights, only one is operational. My Ministry is encouraging all these miners to take advantage of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund to improve their mining operations.

As regards to part (b) of the Question, a total of five types of gemstones have been reported in Lundazi District and these are:

(i) Aquamarine;
(ii) Green Tourmaline;
(iii) Red Garnets;
(iv) Citrine; and
(v) Quartz.

Mr Speaker, as regards to part (c) of the Question, there has been no revenue that has been ploughed back into the community because most of the mines have not been fully developed and these are self financed with low levels of investments.

Mr Speaker, for part (d) of the Question, the Government has not collected any tax revenue because the gemstone licences referred to above are not in production but are conducting exploration and trial mining. However, the Government collected a total of K29,377,938 in area charges between 2005 and 2007 broken down as follows:

Year   Amount (K) 
2005   9,517,900
2006   7,320,000
12,540,038
Total 29,377,938

Mr Speaker, with regard to (e), the Government has, in conjunction with the European Union, provided training for small-scale miners in Lundazi District. The Government has also continued to provide technical extension services to the miners in Lundazi District through the regional mining bureau based in Chipata. In addition, five miners from Lundazi District benefited a total of K190 million from the Mining Sector Revolving Fund. The loans that were given under the Mining Sector Revolving Fund were inadequate and did not have much impact on production.

In the meantime, our immediate concern is to create a mobile gemstone exchange to visit small-scale mining areas such as Lundazi District to facilitate the transactions relating to gemstones between buyers and sellers on the spot. I wish to add that the gemstone exchange in Ndola has plans to commence periodic visits to mining areas to provide gemstone exchange services on the spot, and that the Geological Survey Department is providing mobile gemmological services to value gemstones in the local area to facilitate the marketing of the stones.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, what is the Government doing to make sure that mines who have not started doing their work begin production.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, we have plans to help small-scale miners produce more and also market their produce so that they realise value for what they produce, just as we are concerned with the small-scale farmers.

Mr Speaker, we are doing this in two ways, the first one is to improve their production capability by ensuring that funding is available. Initially, we had the European Union facility which was not fully accessed because of stringent lending provisions then.

Mr Speaker, we have provided our own mining sector revolving fund within the Ministry, but the problems are that the values disbursed were too small to have an impact. However, with the coming of the Citizens’ Empowerment Facility, we expect small-scale miners to take advantage of this facility and, as already been announced, K7 billion has been set aside for each province to be accessed by various Zambians who need to go into various economic activities. Our appeal to small-scale miners is to ensure that they take advantage of this facility.

Mr Speaker, in the area of marketing, we are helping them to ensure that they sell their stones for value and realise realistic income from there. This will start by promoting the Gemstone Exchange in Ndola which is operational and as has already been mentioned by my Deputy Minister. We are also looking at the possibility of mobile gemstone facilities to visit areas such as Kalomo and Lundazi to ensure that miners there sell stones for value.

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has indicated that Zambians will be availed the facility under the Citizens’ Empowerment Fund. However, is he aware that the guidelines and the conditions that have been given by the Citizens’ Empowerment Fund make it almost impossible to adhere to by an ordinary Zambian?

Dr Mwansa: I am not aware of that, Sir, on the contrary. The Citizens’ Empowerment Fund is designed to benefit Zambian citizens and so I do not see how we can contradict ourselves by making it very difficult for Zambians to access the funding.

I thank you, Sir.

EXTENSION OF CATTLE LOAN FACILITY TO THE WESTERN PROVINCE

326. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives when the cattle loan facility will be extended to the people of the Western Province.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, presently, there is no cattle loan facility in the Ministry to be extended to the people of the Western province.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the people of the Western Province are not part and parcel of this country?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, the people of Luampa and the Western Province in general, are part and parcel of the Zambian people. That is why all the services the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is rendering to the country should be extended to the people in the Province and Luampa Constituency. However, to date we do not have any programme for a loan facility countrywide. This is not because the people of Luampa have been excluded, but because the facility is not just available currently.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Bwalya (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, most of the people in the Western Province depend on cattle for their livelihood and in some parts of the Western Province people had formed co-operatives that used to produce more than 500 litres of milk. Today, they cannot produce this much milk due to the Contagious Bovine Plural Pneumonia (CBPP). Therefore, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this Government is going to allow the people of the Western Province to import cattle from neighbouring countries such as Botswana and Namibia where the disease has been fully controlled.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, as stated, importation of livestock would entail that it must be brought to a conducive environment where that is disease free. Currently, we have some problems relating to livestock disease in the Western Province and other parts of the country. Our immediate concern is to see how well we can deal with the disease. Only then, can we start bringing in other livestock.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

BABIES WHO DIED IN INCUBATORS, ICUs AND OPERATING THEATRES IN HOSPITALS DUE TO POWER OUTAGES COUNTRYWIDE

327. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Health:

(a) how many babies in incubators, Intensive Care Units (ICUs) and operating theatres in hospitals countrywide died due to the power outages on 20th and 22nd January, 2008; and

(b) how many hospitals had standby generators in the Lusaka and Copperbelt Provinces.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, no death was recorded in incubators, ICUs and operating theatres in hospitals countrywide, due to the power outages on the stated dates.

Mr Speaker, as for the standby generators, in the Lusaka Province, all hospitals except Chainama have standby generators. In its effort to strengthen the energy back up system, the Ministry of Health will provide two standby generators of 300 KVA for the Chainama Hospital, including the college, whose maximum power demand is estimated at 416 KVA.

Mr Speaker, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) has nine standby generators which feed various departments. The total power demand is estimated at 1,000 KVA and of the nine standby generators, four are non functional. However, the Ministry of Health has plans to repair the four non functional generators and further provide two additional generators with a capacity of 200 KVA each.

Mr Speaker, in the Copperbelt Province, all hospitals except Mpongwe and Kamuchanga have standby generators. However, some may need to be replaced with bigger ones owing to the increase in demand.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if there were any patients who were inconvenienced while in theatre during these two days of the national power outage.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, since that was not part of the initial question, we are not able to provide the number of patients who were inconvenienced.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health has indicated that the UTH has a number of generators that they use in case of outages. I would like to find out why in situations when there is a power outage at the UTH, most of the wards are lit using candles.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in our answer, we stated that four of the nine generators were non functional. Priority has been given to the life serving areas such as the Paediatrics Wing, ICU and the theatres. Therefore, that explains why we have the power outages affecting the areas where the four non functional generators are located.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, the only hospitals that have no standby generators on the Copperbelt are Kamuchanga and Mpongwe. Kamuchanga is old hospital, therefore, why has it not been given a standby generator? Secondly, I would like to find out when the Ministry intends to give Kamuchanga a standby generator as well.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think it is a very well-known fact that the shortage of hydropower is something that was clearly outstripped foreseen ten years ago or so. This has been as a result of many reasons, one of which is the economic boom outstripping the supply. The reason Kamuchanga did not have a standby generator was basically because we were so sure that we would have power all the time. Alas, this has not been the case.

Mr Speaker, with regard to when the tendering process has started, I will be coming to the House to give a comprehensive ministerial statement on the state of standby generators in our health institutions.

Thank you, Sir.

SOCIAL CASH TRANSFER SCHEME IN KATOMBOLA

328. Mrs Musokotwane asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) when the social cash transfer scheme was introduced in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) how much money had been spent so far in the constituency; and

(c) how many elderly people had so far benefited from the scheme.

The Deputy Minister of Community, Development and Social Services (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, the main objective of the Social Cash Transfer Scheme is quite clearly to assist the most destitute and incapacitated households in society meet their basic needs, particularly in health, education, food and shelter. The social cash transfer scheme was introduced in 2005 in Katombola Constituency on a pilot basis.

Mr Speaker, the amount spent in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency since 2005 is as follows:

Year    Amount Spent (K)

 2004    140,005,500.00
 2005    186,547,790.00
2006    398,635,800.00
 2007    167,117,500.00
   Total    890,306,590.00

As regards part (c) of the Question, the scheme does not necessarily target elderly people alone but also the most destitute and incapacitated households in the community (households with limited or no self-help potential). This scheme is not age based like the one being piloted in Katete District which targets all individuals above sixty years. However, there are 554 beneficiaries in the constituency of whom 356 are elderly which translates to 121 males and 235 females.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, does the Ministry have any plans to increase the amount given to the beneficiaries in view of the fact that the cost of living has gone up and the money given to them cannot even buy a bag of mealie meal? Katombola Constituency has a lot of vulnerable people, is the Ministry considering increasing the number of beneficiaries from 554 to about 2,000 people?

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, the project at the moment, is still at a pilot stage in five districts. This means that we are trying to gain knowledge so that we can scale it up. I am sure that many of the hon. Members of Parliament here would also like to benefit from the pilot project. Therefore, the short answer is that we will not increase the amount, but as a Government, we do hope that we can scale it up.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to join those who have welcomed you back. However, I wonder if the hon. Minister can further explain why a pilot scheme has taken four to five years. When will it be rolled over to other constituencies so that I can also benefit in Mbabala?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, indeed, many of us would like to benefit from this scheme, but as I have said before, this is a pilot project which is being funded mostly by the donors and the Government’s contribution is still very small. I, however, would like to say that at this stage, we are carrying out a review of the pilot project both in the Southern Province and Chipata and Katete in the Eastern Province. At the end of this year, the review will have been completed and we will have a report upon which we will base our decision together with our co-operating partners.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, given that the main criteria for consideration in this project is that a household has to be destitute and incapacitated, is it possible that the Ministry is considering the flood victims who, between now and April next year, will have no food due to an act of God, which are the floods we experienced last year? Inclusion of the dilapidated and incapacitated households to this scheme can help to uplift a little, their living standard.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme is just a component of the overall social protection for the country. The Ministry has several other interventions such as the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme and others that we use in other cases. I would like to also say that the Office of the Vice-President, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit, also has some interventions for victims of the floods and other calamities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

COMPLETION OF CONSTRUCTION WORKS AT ILONDOLA HIGH SCHOOL

329. Major Chibamba asked the Minister of Education when construction works at the newly opened Ilondola High School in Shiwang’andu Parliamentary Constituency would be completed.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, there are no construction works at Ilondola High School. However, the Government is rehabilitating six classrooms and four offices at a total cost of K150 million from the Poverty Reduction Programme. The first phase of the rehabilitation of the six classrooms and four offices has been completed. The only remaining works are painting. The works will be completed before the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

___________

MOTION

PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE REPORT

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointment of Madam Justice Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, for the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 11th August, 2008.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, the terms of reference of your Select Committee were to scrutinise the appointment of Madam Justice Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

The appointment of Madam Justice Florence Mumba is made pursuant to the provisions of sections 4 (2), 4 (3) and 4 (4) of the Electoral Commission Act, No. 24 of 1996.

Section 4 (2), of the Electoral Commission Act states that:

“The Commission shall consist of the following full-time members:

(a) A Chairperson; and

(b) Not more than four other members.”

Section 4 (3), of the Electoral Commission Act states that:

“The members shall be appointed by the President, subject to ratification by the National Assembly”

Further, Section 4 (4) of the Electoral Commission Act provides that:

“The Chairperson shall be a person who has held, or is qualified to hold, high judicial office, or any other suitably qualified person.”

 

In their scrutiny of the appointee, your Committee were guided by the provisions of the law I have quoted. They were also aware of the fact that the Electoral Commission of Zambia plays a critical role in ensuring a responsive and effective electoral process that enhances democracy. In this regard, they examined the nominee with the utmost care by scrutinising her curriculum vitae and her integrity.

To help them conduct a thorough scrutiny, your Committee sought information from state security agencies, relevant professional bodies and stakeholder institutions. They also invited the Appointing Authority and the nominee herself to appear before them. These witnesses were carefully selected with the full realisation of the mammoth task that the Electoral Commission performs to ensure that only a person who is capable, upright and committed to the promotion of justice for the benefit of the people of Zambia serves as Chairperson of the Commission.

Mr Speaker, the state security agencies that appeared before your Committee were the Zambia Police Force, Anti-Corruption Commission and Drug Enforcement Commission. All of them informed your Committee that a check of records in their institutions with respect to the nominee yielded negative results. This means that the nominee did not have any adverse criminal, security, corrupt or drug related reports against her.

Mr Speaker, other stakeholders who made submissions to your Committee on this matter were Transparency International Zambia, the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) and the Zambia Centre for Inter Party Dialogue (ZCID). These stakeholders were all in support of the ratification of the nominee. They were convinced that she had the necessary experience, qualifications and personal standing relevant to this important position.

Sir, your Committee also considered the submission by the Appointing Authority, the hon. Minister for Presidential Affairs, who informed your Committee that the position of Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia fell vacant following the appointment of Madam Justice Irene Mambilima as Deputy Chief Justice.

On the nominee, the hon. Minister submitted that Madam Justice Florence Mumba’s curriculum vitae reveals the vast experience she has. Notable among the positions she had held before was that of member of the Electoral Commission of Zambia where she served from 1989 to 1992. This means that the work of the Commission was not new to her.

The hon. Minister also submitted that apart from her experience at the Electoral Commission, Madam Justice Florence Mumba had experience in the field of Human Rights that would be useful to the discharge of functions of Chairperson of the Electoral Commission.

Mr Speaker, after a thorough evaluation of the evidence presented to them by the witnesses, the Appointing Authority and their subsequent interview with the nominee, your Committee are convinced that the nominee is suitably qualified to be ratified for appointment as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

In view of the foregoing and taking into consideration the need to have more women in decision-making positions, your Committee recommend the ratification of Madam Justice Florence Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

In conclusion, your Committee wish to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services and advice rendered to your Committee during their deliberations. Your Committee also wish to place on record their gratitude to your for allowing them to serve on this very important Select Committee.

They also thank the State security agencies, professional bodies, stakeholder institutions and the nominee herself for the oral and written submissions that assisted your Committee in their work.

Mr Speaker, your Committee are hopeful that the House will support their report and recommendations contained therein.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Imbwae: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion for the House to adopt the report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the presidential appointment of Madam Justice Florence Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

Sir, the Motion has been ably moved and in this regard, allow me to quickly add to what the Chairperson has already highlighted.

Sir, your Committee observe that some stakeholders who appeared before your Committee consulted a number of people, including the nominee’s former classmates and associates who spoke very highly of her personal and professional integrity.

Your Committee learnt with happiness that all the people consulted confirmed that Madam Justice Mumba was a frank, honest, independent and open-minded person who stood firm on issues of integrity and that she always strove to conduct herself with the dignity befitting a Supreme Court Judge.

Sir, other stakeholders have also considered the nominee as a great achiever, a woman of substance and integrity, a true role model.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observe that the nominee has earned herself respect from her peers, the legal fraternity and all associates. This has, indeed, confirmed the nominee’s high standing in society.

Mr Speaker, your Committee were also informed that Madam Justice Florence Mumba had spent all her career years in public service and, there, fully understood the need to balance the diverse interest of all nationals in discharging public functions. Your Committee further heard that one of Madam Justice Mumba’s important attributes was her exposure to the Interpretation of Electoral Laws as Judge of the Supreme Court.

Sir, your Committee are hopeful that the nominee would use this attribute to understand and execute these laws better in her new position as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia if ratified by this House.

Sir, your Committee are also aware of the fact that the Commission and the electoral system in Zambia face challenges that need to be attended to. Your Committee urge the Executive to provide the necessary and adequate financial and structural support to the Commission in order to improve the performance of the Commission, especially with regard to conducting elections.

With these few words, Sir, I beg to second.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the mover of the Motion who moved it so eloquently.

Mr Speaker, I wish to state, without any iota of partiality, that the seconder seems to have moved the level of eloquence to a much higher level than the mover.

Laughter

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, in contributing to this Motion, I have to state that I will not only have some good news, but also some bad news.

Mr Speaker, I propose to start with the good news. The goods news is that your nominee is certainly somebody of immense experience. She is somebody who has excelled wherever she has been.

Mr Speaker, at Page 5 of the Report, in the third paragraph, the Law Association of Zambia was rather shy to state whether or not your nominee would be somebody who would be able to withstand political pressure. I wish to state here that I am absolutely confident that your nominee is made of the right stuff and would be able to withstand any form of attempts at manipulation or pressure.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, I would like to turn to Page 6 of the Report and, in particular, the first two paragraphs which show that she is well qualified because of her work experience in that she has dealt with electoral matters many times before and, in fact, she has dealt with several election petitions. I, myself, have appeared before her in electoral petitions and I can vouch for the clarity with which she goes through the petitions and arrives at decisions.

Mr Speaker, there is also, at Page 11, a statement relating to what she feels should be looked at in terms of enhancing the role of the Electoral Commission of Zambia. She stated that there was a particular need to look into the following:

(a) distribution of relief food and other gifts during election time;

(b)  expansion of the Education Unit in the Electoral Commission of Zambia; and

(c)  national registration of voters needed to be enhanced and made continuous; particularly in rural areas where owing to long distances to registration centres, people were disenfranchised and finally making people feel duty bound and find it pleasurable to vote.

Quite clearly, she is somebody who will be going to the Electoral Commission of Zambia with a clear view of what she wants to achieve. She will not be going there blindly and groping in the dark. She already has identified what the key issues are that need to be addressed and it is very gratifying to see somebody going for a job for which quite clearly they are well prepared.

Mr Speaker, when I was called to the bar, I found your nominee already on the Bench. That gives you an indication of the length of experience she has had on the Bench. After being on the Bench for sometime, I also interacted with her when she was Investigator-General and there too, she excelled and when she was appointed Acting Supreme Court Judge, I had the pleasure of appearing before her and there too, she excelled. I also had the pleasure of attending, in 2004, one of the sessions she presided over at the Hague and I was truly taken in the manner in which she was able to control the proceedings and in the amount of respect others at the Hague obviously gave her. It made me proud to be a Zambian to see a fellow Zambian performing so well on the international stage.

Mr Speaker, there is also a list of the publications that your nominee has written and it is clear that she is a cerebral and that is what you need. You need a thinker who will be able to sort out the problems that we have at the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

I did state at the beginning that I had some good news and some bad news. I will now turn to the bad news. The bad news is that with this proposed appointment, we find ourselves at catch twenty-two situation. If she is appointed as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, that will be an immense loss for the Judiciary and if she is not appointed, it will be an immense loss for the Electoral Commission of Zambia. That is the bad news that we have. Unfortunately, we have to take the good with the bad and support the nomination and ratification of this nominee in spite of the fact that it will leave a gap in the Judiciary.

Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me the opportunity to debate the appointment of Madam Justice Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I join all those who have made praises of the wise choice of Madam Justice Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia. This as it may be, I have concerns which I would like to express.

Mr Speaker, it is not wise to expose a good individual to an institution that is fraud with suspicion, an institution that is impotent to address issues of elections in Zambia. We would like to cloth a good individual with powers to address issues that arise from elections. As the situation is at the moment, the Electoral Commission of Zambia is an impotent institution.

During elections, Mr Speaker, a number of irregularities are brought to the attention of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, but because of the impotence and the lack of laws to assist the Electoral Commission to address these issues, the Electoral Commission of Zambia has always been held in very low esteem …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was making lamentations pertaining to the impotence of the Electoral Commission of Zambia to deal with election irregularities.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state, without fear of any contradiction, that the situation as obtaining at the Electoral Commission of Zambia does not allow for an atmosphere of free and fair elections. It is my submission that to enable the competent candidate being proposed for the office of Chairperson for the Electoral Commission of Zambia to function effectively, there is an urgent need to amend the Electoral Act in order to cloth the Commission with adequate powers to address issues that arise from the elections.

Mr Speaker, we have witnessed, in the recent past, the rampant corruption and abuse of State resources being the order of the day with the knowledge of the Electoral Commission. However, the Electoral Commission of Zambia had no authority whatsoever to act and curb these irregularities. It does not augur well for us as hon. Members of this august House to remain silent without addressing issues that affect elections in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, it is my considered view that if we have to do justice to the system, there is an urgent need for the Government, before the next elections, to come up with comprehensive amendments to the Electoral Act. If we do not do that, even the good person we are recommending today, will be a subject of abuse. By the time she retires from this position, she will not be the same person. The high esteem in which she is being held now will not be there.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: This will not be any fault of hers, but that of the system. We have the mandate on behalf of the Zambian people to correct the situation.

Mr Speaker, a good electoral system is for the good of everyone in Zambia. It is not only good for the ruling party, but the opposition and the whole nation. If we continue having elections that are fraught with irregularities, one day, we will regret. We will have a situation that will not be conducive to this country.

 It is incumbent upon us as leaders of Zambia to take corrective measures. These measures must be taken now, and not in future.

Mr Speaker, it may be good for those in the Government to allow irregularities for their benefit. However, there will come a time when they will be on the left side of the House and they will be crying foul. This does not augur well. It is in the interest of justice for us to ensure that corrective measures are taken.

Mr Speaker, in 2001, it was common knowledge that parastatal companies in Zambia were abused for the sake of elections and the Electoral Commission of Zambia was aware of the irregularities, but had no authority whatsoever to take corrective measures. We should learn from experience and take corrective measures for the sake of this highly respected Zambian and other people of good standing in society. Let us take corrective measures and ensure that we cloth the Electoral Commission of Zambia with powers to address whatever irregularities that arise from the elections before proceeding to court.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I would like to support wholly the appointment of this highly reputed Zambian as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, obviously, taking into account the submission I made earlier.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, in supporting this Motion, allow me to take the submission by Hon. Mwiimbu as my own.

Mr Speaker, this appointment is very important because of the importance of the Electoral Commission of Zambia in ensuring a responsive and effective electoral process that enhances and protects democracy. Therefore, the person whose appointment is being ratified should be highly competent, diligent and of course of unquestionable integrity.

I wish to mention that after going through the Report, despite not knowing Madam Justice Florence Mumba personally, I concur with the appointing authority that she is, indeed, competent enough to take up the challenge and more especially that she once worked for this Commission from 1989 to 1992 at a time that we saw the transition from one party to multi-party democracy. The only time that I can safely say Zambia enjoyed a fairly fair presidential and general election.

Mr Speaker, as I went through the Report, I expected to learn more about the parentage of Madam Justice Florence Mumba, the place where she was born, district, village and tribe because this was missing from the curriculum vitae.

However, the challenges at the Electoral Commission of Zambia are huge. For the past fifteen years that I have participated in elections, the Commission has always come out wanting. There has never been a time when the Zambians ever accepted the outcome of General Elections in the country. In developed countries, opinion polls also play an important part. They can act as a litmus test on the performance of political parties and candidates. The direction or the outcome of election results can easily be predicted way before the election results. In most cases, such opinion polls always correspond with the results, but this is not the case in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, because of such inconsistency in the Electoral Commission of Zambia’s performance, Zambia, today, has gone down in history, as a country where a Republican President is about to rule for two terms without winning a single election. It is the Electoral Commission of Zambia that has, on several occasions, denied the voters their preferred leaders. The controversy the nation encountered during the last two Presidential and General Elections cannot be ignored.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: We are all aware that Mr Mazoka and Mr Sata, respectively, were denied their victories.

Hon. Government Members: No!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, it is with this background …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ebaume aba.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I join others in welcoming you back to the House. Sir, I did not intend to interrupt the hon. Member on the Floor, but is the speaker …

Hon. Opposition Members: The Speaker is in the Chair!

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Is the hon. Member who is debating …

Mr Mubika: So badly!

Hon. Opposition Members: So well.

Mr Sichilima: … so badly

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: … in order to insinuate that the MMD Government has not won any single election when the nation is aware that the President and, indeed, hon. Government Members won convincingly …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: … from 3.7 million people who registered as voters. Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development has adequately debated his point of order. The hon. Member for Nkana may continue.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Sir, I was saying that it is through such a background that I and several others out there, do not have confidence in the Electoral Commission of Zambia. Therefore, I would like to urge Justice Mumba to be firm and forecast to reinstall the integrity of the Electoral Commission of Zambia. I wish her well in her new and high demanding appointment and may the good Lord strengthen and give her wisdom in such a mammoth task.

Mr Speaker, I support the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the de bate on this Motion. Firstly, let me thank the mover and the seconder of this Motion for ably moving the Motion.

Sir, I stand to support the appointment of Justice Florence Mumba. Though I do not know her personally, from the literature that I have read about her, I am convinced, beyond reasonable doubt, that she is a person of a high standing in society.

Mr Speaker, briefly, I would like to tell the nominee that the institution that she is about to enter into is one where she can either build or destroy her reputation. Madam Justice Florence Mumba has spent a lot of years in public office and has built a reputation that has made the womenfolk in our country look up to her as an icon of wisdom.

However, the Electoral Commission of Zambia has lost the confidence of the Zambian people.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: It is for this reason that I urge her to fight a lot of misdeeds in the Commission. Among them, is a point where the President goes to address a meeting and states that if people do not vote for a particular ruling party candidate, they will not have development. Therefore, I am appealing to Madam Justice Mumba to seriously advise, whoever is and would be President, that such comments are tantamount to corrupting the minds of the voters.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I beg your pardon.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: We got used to seeing Madam Deputy Speaker in the Chair for past few days. Therefore, I am still in the past.

Mr Muntanga: He is a Madam!

Mr Kambwili: However, I would like to urge the nominee that the task ahead of her is a mammoth task. Sir, like I said earlier, she can either build or destroy what she has built all along. I would like to urge her to be firm and forecast and make decisions that are going to be appreciated by all Zambians. More often than not, decisions from the Electoral Commission of Zambia have been in favour of the ruling party. I would like to urge her not to follow the direction of the ruling party, but to be firm and make decisions that are going to stand the test of time.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the nomination.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to wind up debate on this Motion. This appointment is not controversial and we note, as a Government, with gratitude that the ratification of Madam Justice Florence Mumba is fully supported by the Committee which scrutinised the appointment and the whole House.

Madam Justice Mumba is fully qualified, competent and experienced to serve as Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of Zambia. She has impeccable credentials. The Electoral Commission of Zambia is a key governance institution in our democratic dispensation which should be managed by fair and impartial personnel of high integrity if we are to reduce on electoral disputes.

Mr Speaker, we are fortunate that Judge Mumba possesses the necessary judicial capacity to organise credible free and fair elections. The fact that she has served in the Electoral Commission of Zambia before, is an added advantage. She is an expert in human rights issues and has served as a Judge of the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. As a Supreme Court Judge, she is better placed to take on this kind of responsibility and we are confident that stakeholders in the electoral process will give her the necessary support.

Mr Speaker, stakeholders who appeared before the Committee raised pertinent issues relating to the electoral process. I am sure Judge Mumba and the Government in general will continue to look into such issues so that we can improve our electoral process.

Mr Speaker, I must also say that the established practice of appointing serving Judges from the High Court and Supreme Court Bench to serve on the Electoral Council of Zambia (ECZ) has worked very well in this country. In this regard, I am confident that Judge Mumba will also perform with distinction. The policy of this Government is to appoint women to decision-making positions of this nature.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, Sc.: Mr Speaker, accordingly, I humbly pray to this august House to ratify the appointment.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members who have debated without dissent, including the hon. Minister of Justice. Perhaps, I would also like to thank my colleague, Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, for supporting this appointment while at the same time, wanting to approve dowry on my wife …

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: There are no wives here!

Mr Hachipuka:… who deputised and supported me in this presentation.

Mr Speaker, I urge the whole House to support this ratification.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The word “wife” is unparliamentary.

Laughter

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1853 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 15th August, 2008.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

MEASURES TO PRESERVE FORESTRY RESOURCES

330. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) what measures the Ministry had taken to preserve the forestry resources which were being depleted at a high rate without economic benefit to the nation; and

(b) when a conservation policy on sustainable utilisation of forestry resources would be formulated.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, through the Forestry Department, has taken the following measures to preserve the forestry resources:

(i) Regulation of Forestry Exploitation

This measure is put in place to ensure that forests are not over cut by timber producers who are licensed to exploit trees. Regulation of forestry exploitation is achieved through issuance of forestry licences to concessionaires for cutting trees in specified areas of forests in accordance with laid down forestry regulations. For instance, cutting of trees below thirty centimetres in diameters at breast height (dbh) and trimming of stumps is not allowed, as doing so would make it difficult for trees to regenerate. In addition, all the timber cut is hammer marked with a number carried by an authorised forestry officer to distinguish legally cut from illegally cut timber. The regulation of forestry exploitation ensures that forests are used in a sustainable manner. 

(ii) Fire Management and Control

This measure is aimed at reducing the loss of tree cover through late fires. The Forestry Department staff carry out early burning in forest reserves and open areas. This activity takes place yearly between May and July, depending on the rainfall pattern in any given year. Early burning reduces forest floor fuel (mainly grass) so that the severity of any late fires is reduced thereby reducing damage to trees. This practice also has the benefit of stimulating germination and growth of certain tree species.

(iii) Forest Patrols

This measure involves the forestry officers conducting both general and blitz or random patrols and road blocks to control illegal timber and charcoal production in forest areas. It is also aimed at controlling transportation of illegal timber and charcoal as well as squatting in forest reserves. In addition, patrols reveal what products could be obtained from particular forests and the best use a forest could be put to.

(iv) Pricing of Forestry Products

This is another measure whose main purpose is to control forest exploitation and, therefore, regulate forest utilisation. It is also meant to generate revenue intended for assistance in sustainable forest management. Pricing forestry products also cuts off many forest exploiters who would have otherwise engaged in indiscriminate timber cutting had there been no pricing attached to timber products and charcoal production.

(v) Promotion of Agroforestry

This involves the inclusion of planted trees in the farming systems. Most of these trees are fast growing and provide a variety of products, including timber, poles, wood fuel and fodder. Agroforestry systems also add nutrients to the soil and improves soil structure and quality, therefore, reducing fertiliser input.

(vi) Forest Extension Programmes

This involves sensitisation and awareness campaigns to enlighten local communities on the importance of forest conservation and the negative consequences of deforestation such as the drying of rivers and streams, reduction in crop yields and unfavorable weather patterns. These campaigns are carried out through workshops, meetings, demonstrations, drama sketches and the electronic media.

(vii) Re-afforestation Programmes

The Forestry Department carries out tree planting campaigns between 15th December and 15th January every year. This activity takes place in all the provinces in conjunction with local communities, Non-Government Organisations (NGOs), political leaders and other stakeholders.

Planting of trees is intended, to some extent, to replace trees being cut down for various uses, thus reducing the effects of deforestation. In addition, commercial licence holders are obliged to plant trees in areas of their operation or support the planting of trees in their areas of operation by providing resources for the exercise.

(viii) Joint Forest Management (JFM)

JFM is a scheme initiated by the Government to encourage community participation in management of forests. Currently JFM is piloted in seven areas and those are Lukangaba and Mwewa in Luapula Province; Ndondi, Ila and Dambwa in the Southern Province; Katanino and Shibuchinga on the Copperbelt. The outcome of this pilot scheme is so far encouraging and the Government is exploring the possibility of extending the JFM scheme to the rest of the country.

Mr Speaker, as regards part (b) of the Question, such a policy already exists. The National Forestry Policy of 1998 was adopted by the Government with the main aim of promoting sustainable utilisation of forestry resources.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.