DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 23rd September, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

COMMITTEES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with the provisions of the National Assembly Standing Orders, the Standing Orders Committee has approved the following members to serve on the various Sessional Committees for the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly. 

HOUSE-KEEPING COMMITEES

Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services (7)

The Hon. Madam Deputy Speaker (Chairperson);

The Hon. G. Kunda, SC., MP, the Vice-President and Minister of Justice;

The Hon. V. Mwaanga, MP, Chief Whip;

Mr H. I. Mwanza, MP;

Mrs R. M. Musokotwane, MP;

Mr Y. D. Mukanga, MP;

Mr E. C. Mwansa, MP; and

Mr S. Sikota, SC., MP.

Reforms and Modernisation Committee (10)

The Hon. S. Musokotwane, MP, the Minister of Finance and National Planning;

The Hon. G. Kunda, SC., MP, the Vice-President and Minister of Justice;

The Hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing;

The Hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House;

Mr E. C. Mwansa, MP;

Dr K. Kalumba, MP;

Mr D. Matongo, MP;

Mr E. Kasoko, MP;

Mrs F. B. Sinyangwe, MP; and

Mr B. Y. Mwila, MP.

GENERAL PURPOSES COMMITTEES

Committee on Government Assurances (8)

Mr S. Chisanga, MP;

Mrs J. Kapata, MP;

Mr S. Chitonge, MP;

Mr J. B. Chongo, MP;

Mr E. Kasoko, MP;

Mr R. S. Mwapela, MP;

Mr D. M. Syakalima, MP; and

Mr C. Kambwili, MP.

Committee on Delegated Legislation (8)

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC, MP;

Mr B. Chella, MP;

Mr J. C. Kasongo, MP;

Mrs J. M. Limata, MP;

Mr V. N. Mooya, MP;

Mr C. M. M. Silavwe, MP;

Reverend G. Z. Nyirongo, MP; and

Mr R. Muyanda, MP. 

Committee on Estimates (9)

Mr S. Chisanga, MP;

Mr E. M. Hachipuka, MP;

Mr H. H. Hamududu, MP;

Mrs E. K. Chitika Mulobeka, MP;

Mr J. P. L. Mulenga, MP;

Mr A. M. Nyirenda, MP;

Mrs S. T. Masebo, MP;

Mr E. M. Singombe, MP; and

Mr G. Lubinda, MP.

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEES 

Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chief’s Affairs (8)

Major R. M. Chizhyuka, MP;

Dr K. Kalumba, MP;

Mr H. M. Malama, MP;

Mr V. M. Mooya, MP;

Mrs R. M. Musokotwane, MP;

Mr D. Mwango, MP;

Mr E. M. Singombe, MP; and

Mr J. Shakafuswa, MP.

With the exception of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, all the other committees are mandated to elect their own Chairpersons. The elections of Chairpersons will be presided over by the hon. Madam Deputy Speaker on a date to be communicated by the Clerk’s office. The compositions of the rest of the committees will be announced later.

Thank you.

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EXTENSION OF MOBILE PHONE SERVICES TO KANCHIBIYA

1. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when mobile phone services would be extended to Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the Communications Authority of Zambia (CAZ) has embarked on a plan of deploying Information Communication Technology (ICT) infrastructure and services in under-serviced and unserviced areas of Zambia under the Universal Access Programme (UAP). CAZ, with the help of the service providers has identified areas lacking GSM and internet services throughout the country. The deployment of ICT infrastructure to rural and underserved areas of Zambia using public funds under the UAP will be done in phases taking into account budgetary constraints. The UAP will be an ongoing programme until all areas lacking basic communication services are covered. Accordingly, Kanchibiya Constituency will be taken into account during the phased implementation process.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the President has been very passionate about promoting tourism in the northern circuit. Seeing as Kanchibiya is situated in the northern circuit, I would like to know when these services will be extended to that area because without good communication, we will not be able to attract tourists. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, CAZ has been directed to come up with a roll-out-plan for a five year period. This programme, which will be in phases, begins this year. It has already been worked on. For instance, we know that in order to provide 60 per cent coverage of network connectivity in our country, especially in the rural areas, we need about 156 towers at a cost of K187billion. 

I thank you, Sir. 

 Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why Vodacom was blocked from bringing its services into this nation. 

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is very much aware that the Vodacom issue is in court, and therefore, we cannot comment on it.

 I thank you, Sir

EDUCATION FOR THE VULNERABLE AND PHYSICALLY CHALLENGED PUPILS

2. Mr Chanzangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Education what measures had been taken to ensure that the vulnerable and physically challenged pupils had access to education in view of the high cost of education in both private and public schools.

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chazangwe …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Choma!

Ms Siliya: …for Choma, Hon. Chanzangwe, my apologies. Hon. Chazangwe wanted to know what measures had been taken by the Ministry of Education to ensure that vulnerable and physically challenged pupils have access to education in view of the high cost of education in both private and public schools. 

Mr Speaker, the goal of the Government as outlined in the National Policy on Education is to ensure that every child has access to at least nine years of good quality education. As the first step leading to the attainment of the goal of universal basic education, the Ministry of Education is committed to ensuring that every child has access to a minimum of seven years of good quality schooling in a school of parental choice. 

Mr Speaker, to this effect, the ministry has put in place measures that are aimed at ensuring that every child, including the vulnerable and physically challenged pupils, has access to education. The following are some of the measures:

The Ministry of Education has trained 1,132 basic school teachers and 232 high school teachers in special education. There are 900 trainers of trainers (TOTs) and 12,000 teachers have been trained in inclusive methods. The learners of special education needs accessing education has also increased from 23,209 to 168,866  in basic schools in 2008, and 1,734 to 3,732  in high schools  in 2008.

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to know that there are seventeen special education schools nationwide, 149 special education units at basic school level, and twelve special education units at high school level. We also have seven special education units in colleges. 

Mr Speaker, to address the problem of cost, in 2002, the Government introduced free basic education from Grade 1 to Grade 7. Furthermore, the infrastructure programme has been expanded in order to increase access. A provision of bursary scheme covering basic, high school and tertiary levels and the universities was introduced. There are currently 672,960 orphans at basic school level. Of these, 115,055 are receiving bursaries. Furthermore, there are 46,498 orphans at high school level. Of these 42,119 are receiving bursaries. 

Mr Speaker, in order to further address the challenges for orphaned and vulnerable children, particularly those with special needs, all new classroom constructions have their external doors widened to allow for easy entry. Further, the size of the classroom has also been reduced to almost a square to take care of children with poor eye sight. 

Mr Speaker, inclusive schooling has been introduced as a way of integrating children with special education needs. The Government has also provided special education schools and units for children with severe disabilities. 

Finally, Sir, the Government is encouraging the private sector to participate in the provision of education, as a way of increasing access, which is also expected to result in the reduction of the cost of education. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C.K.B. Banda (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that there are many deaf and dumb children scattered through out the country, does the Ministry of Education have plans to construct schools for this category of children in every province in this country?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, currently, we are working on plans to provide in each province, a centre of excellence. This centre will be a school for special education needs which will cater for various disabilities. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, inclusive education is good theoretically. However, practically, it is not working. What is the ministry doing to ensure that the children with special needs that are included in normal classes have special attention from trained teachers? This is because at the moment, they are not getting special attention at all. 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, it is true that we are quite challenged in terms of trying to integrate these children with special education needs into normal schools and also that we have very limited  independent special education units in the country. We obviously have to provide more places and centres of excellence as we are trying to do now to be able to address the problem. We stand quite challenged. However, this is no excuse for inaction or complacency. We, therefore, will continue to strive to provide education for every vulnerable child and children with special needs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether, as the Ministry of Education is building new schools countrywide, it is making the buildings user friendly for children who are physically challenged, especially those that are on wheelchairs.  

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, in my answer, I mentioned that we are actually looking at making all the new schools that are being constructed as user friendly as possible for children with special needs. We are trying to widen the doors so that those children who use wheel chairs can have easy entry and exit. We are also trying to ensure that the rooms are standard so that the children who have problems with very serious eyesight disabilities can see the front of the classroom as clearly as possible.

Sir, you will also recall that during the policy presentation statement by His Excellency, he directed all planning offices to ensure that not just education institutions, but all buildings in the country to ensure that once these children have gone through the school infrastructure in the future and even beyond, they should be able to have easy access to buildings.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, Munali Secondary School has a school for the deaf and dumb. We had a problem because of the power outages. When there is no power, the children start fighting because they are not able to communicate. We are supposed to buy solar panels using the Constituency Development Fund CDF, but the CDF has not come forth. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education what we can do because this is really a big problem.   Children are fighting at night because they cannot communicate because of the power outages. Would she consider helping Munali Secondary School which is the only school accommodating the deaf and the dumb to buy at least the solar panels so that the pupils can communicant when there is no power?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Member for Munali who has taken it upon herself, many times, to champion education matters in this country. I believe that if she visited our offices, in liaison with my colleagues from the ministries of Energy and Water Development, and Local Government and Housing, we should be able to come up with a solution to the problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find from the hon. Minister what plans have been effected to ensure that schools for the blind, like Mano Primary School in Mufulira, are provided with proper equipment like calculators, braille and typewriters so that they can access proper education.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, we remain committed, as a ministry, to providing education materials to all the pupils in the schools, including those with special needs. Currently, we do not have adequate equipment to respond adequately to the challenges of the children with special needs. I know that equipment such as Braille cost in the range of K3 million per Braille and when we come to computers, the cost is even more. The long-term solution is for the economy to expand so that we can commit more funds to education. Having said that, I wish to repeat that even with the challenges, there is still no excuse for complacency and we will do everything possible to prioritise this so that we can respond to these challenges.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan):  Mr Speaker, Da Gama School for the Physically Handicapped is housed in Luanshya. May I know if the Government has been assisting this school financially and if so, what is the annual grant?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I might not have the specific information on Da Gama School in Luanshya, but almost all the special education needs institutions in this country belong to the Government and, as such, they are provided for in terms of grants by the Ministry of Education. At an appropriate time, I will make available information with regard to the specific grant that is provided to the school.

 I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, the school in Lusaka which teaches teachers skills for special education is important in dealing with physically handicapped and disadvantage pupils. Are there any plans to expand that school to ensure that the output of teachers to teach special education is increased?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, our teachers do not only respond to those who are physically handicapped in terms of disabled, they are also trainers of trainers. Teachers who have been trained in special skills such Braille reading so that they can work with children who are blind and those who need sign language. Therefore, we are doing everything possible. I know that what the hon. Member really wants to find out is whether we have adequate teachers trained for special needs. Of course, not. We are doing everything possible to ensure that we train as many teachers as possible in this area. As we are recruiting teachers every year, a significant number must be allocated to special education needs.

 I thank you, Sir.

ROAD WORKS IN KAMFINSA

3. Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    when the Government would re-do the roads works  in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency which were poorly done by Turner Construction Company; and

(b)    whether the Government would take any action against Turner Construction Company Limited for poor workmanship on the roads at (a) above and if what the action would be

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the ministry will consider carrying out works on some roads that were previously assigned to Messrs Turner Construction Company Limited when most of the on-going projects are completed. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Ndalamei: The ministry may include the maintenance of these roads in the 2011 Annual Work Plan subject to the availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the contractor, Messrs Turner Construction Company Limited was charged on amount of K763,503,404 in liquidated damages for failing to complete the works on time. The contractor’s lack of performance has also been reported to the National Council for Construction (NCC), the body which registers contractors in the country, recommending for disciplinary action.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the Road Development Agency is doing with regard to maintaining the roads which are in a very bad state of repair since no one is allowed to patch them up. I would therefore, propose…

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask your question!

Mr Nyirenda: Where is RDA Fund promised to give to the constituency to repair the road since this has not been managed by Turner Construction Company Limited?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, only when the contract is still terminated, I do not think we will stop anybody from doing it except that the funds are not available. However, within the neighbourhood, we are attending to the roads that remained in Wusakili. Hon. Chella requested to have his roads done. I am sure you will agree with me that we have done this using our own equipment. It is possible that it can be done as well in your constituency if only when we have no lubricants and fuel, you are able to sacrifice a bit of your CDF.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

  Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, this contractor was paid money by the Government for this road and also in Nchanga. Yet, he did not do the works. What is the Government going to do about the money which was paid to this contractor which is in a very large sum?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, all contracts have conditions. He was charged penalties in Kamfinsa because of the same issue. I am sure the same will happen even in Nchanga. It does not necessarily imply that he did not do anything. They are normally paid for only what they have done.  

   Sometimes, you might think that everything they did was wrong but, when you assess, you may find that they spent some time and money and it is possible that they were paid for the works that they did. I am sure they must have been charged penalties as well, and hence the termination of that contract.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, when will the Government replace contractors on sites that were abandoned by Turner Construction Company for its shoddy works? It has taken more two years since they were removed from there, particularly in Ndola, Kamfinsa …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mushili: … and Chingola.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, all the three contracts in Chingola, Ndola and Kamfinsa were terminated. We have also said that we have reported the contractor to the National Construction Council (NCC) for disciplinary action meaning that they might be blacklisted and will never participate in contracting. However, as to when another contractor will come, that we cannot guarantee for a simple reason. When money is allocated for a project, our regulations are that if it is not spent within that year, it goes back to the Treasury and for one to access it he or she must queue up again like any other project.

Therefore, I cannot say when the contractor will move in but you are aware that we have made advertisements for the Ndola, Chingola and Kitwe projects. We have done the advertisements and contractors made their bids and evaluation has been done, but the only problem is that we are awaiting allocation of resources.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, why is the Government planning to re-do the works on the road when the contractor did the job and was paid? Do we not have clauses in the contract which compel the contractor to re-do the job at his own cost after being paid?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I made it clear that all contracts have got conditions and one of them is that of penalties. Hence, it is expected that when we charge penalties, the money we recover can be used for such a purpose. However, I have mentioned, here, that the fact that you were given money in a particular year does not mean it will sit idle in an account waiting to be used. As long as the money is not used within the year, it reverts to the Treasury and you have to apply for it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: He has not answered the question!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister inform us whether Turner Construction Company has already paid K700 million penalty fees and where that money has been spent.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, all money due to the Government is paid back to the Treasury. So, whether it has been spent or not, I am not in a position to tell.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, we are all aware that to tar a kilometre of road used to cost around K2 billion at the time that Turner Construction Company was given those contracts. All the roads that were worked on, including a road in Nkana Constituency, were not done to the satisfaction of the residents, hence the termination of these contracts. Does the K700 million penalty charge cover the cost of re-doing all the roads that were badly done by Turner Construction Company?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we were answering a question to do with Kamfinsa and if you want to apportion the penalty charge for Kamfinsa to all your areas, then you are mistaken.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: We talked about Kamfinsa.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

{mospagebreak}

ZESCO MANAGING DIRECTOR

4. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    why the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Board terminated the contract of the Managing Director in August, 2009; and

(b)    when a new Managing Director would be appointed.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, I wish to correct the view that the contract of the Managing Director was terminated by ZESCO Board. In actual fact, there was no contract signed between the Board and the successful applicant. The Board was in the process of negotiating the contract. However, the applicant did not accept the conditions offered by the Board and, therefore, the position of managing director was declared vacant.

Sir, the process for the appointment of a managing director is on-going and the Board is working on the matter. Invitations for applicants to the position of managing director will be done through public advertisements in the local press.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the Managing Director of ZESCO had worked for thirty-five days and, obviously, there must be …

Mr Speaker: Order! Are there any questions?

Mr D. Mwila: Sir, could the hon. Minister explain to us the terms of exit because he had worked for thirty-five days?

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, as explained in the written response, the company had offered a successful applicant a contract which he said he was going to look at. Subsequently, he rejected it. On that basis, there was no other contract and the terms of exit did not exist because the contract that was offered by the company was not accepted by the applicant.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RESURFACING OF THE SABINA/MUFULIRA ROAD

5. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    how much money had been spent on the repair and maintenance of the Sabina/Mufulira Road in 2007, 2008 and 2009; and

(b)    when the road would be completely resurfaced as opposed to mending potholes.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency, spent K644,445,753.13 in 2007. In 2008, it spent K3,427,930,804.26 and in 2009, it spent K194,208,922.63. The holding maintenance works included pothole patching, drainage maintenance and surface dressing.

Sir, it has been the immediate intention of the ministry to fully rehabilitate the Mufulira/Sabina Road but, due to the budgetary constraints, the rehabilitation has been deferred for the past two years. The ministry, however, is considering using the public- private partnership (PPP) arrangement to rehabilitate the road once the study on how the PPP will be carried out in Zambia has been completed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that I have initiated talks between Mopani Copper Mines and the Mufulira Municipal Council for Mopani to start working on this road, is the Government considering stepping into this issue so that the road can be done before the onset of the rains?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for his initiative. However, I would like to report to him that we, also, have been having discussions with Olympic Milling who have made an offer to work on that road. Mopani Copper Mines also indicated that discussions were held before for it and First Quantum, including transporters, to work on the Ndola/Mufulira Road so that they share the cost on those stretches. Therefore, we are actively pursuing those options so that, as quickly as possible, if their offer is accepted by the treasury, we will work on that route because it will be much quicker and faster.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister assure this House that there will be no interference, in particular, that the Mufulira Municipal Council had written to Mopani not to go ahead with the resurfacing of this road because it was anticipating to be given a contract by the Road Development Agency (RDA).

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether a council on its own can stop works of a trunk road between towns. If it were a road within Mufulira council boundaries, they can interfere, but I do not think the Sabina/Mufulira Road is in their area of jurisdiction because it is purely an RDA issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the recovery of costs on a public-private partnership road is through toll gates. May I know how the Government is going to have the poor people travelling on that road pay the toll gate fees that they cannot afford?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the law already exists on toll gates in Zambia. However, I do not think this Government, which is very considerate towards its citizens …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: … will implement tolling without taking into consideration those who cannot afford it. In the management of the whole process, of course, there will be consideration for those who cannot afford. However,  I do not think that you are making reference to people who drive.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that the people of Mufulira have petitioned the Republican President over that road. What timeframe will it take for First Quantum or Olympic Milling to move onto site so that the road is worked on promptly?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, to petition is a Constitutional right, but whether that will produce immediate results when we have a resource envelope which is not too sufficient is another issue. I have said that we are doing everything possible, either through funding from the treasury itself, the Private- Public Partnership or through any other effort like the hon. Member for Kankoyo who was proactive enough to approach the council did. We will work on the road as soon as it is possible.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

MWINILUNGA PINEAPLE CANNERY

6. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)    when the Government would find an investor for the Mwinilunga Pineapple Cannery; and 

(b)    whether the Government had any plans of creating a market for the pineapple growers in Mwinilunga District.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, the Mwinilunga Cannery Limited went into liquidation in 1996 because the company was underperforming and failed to service its obligations to creditors.

All assets have since been sold by the liquidator to different people who have not been able to continue with the business owing to the age of the equipment and luck of funds for recapitalisation. The Government is, however, actively looking for investors with the technical and financial capacity to setup new processing plants and revive the existing ones. These efforts are being done through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and foreign missions where the pineapple project in Mwinilunga is being promoted as a prospective investment opportunity. Furthermore, the Government is encouraging Zambian entrepreneurs to consider this opportunity and invest in this prospect or partner with foreign investors with technical and financial capacity to develop the industry.

However, the challenge of underdeveloped infrastructure such as power and roads in Mwinilunga continues to hinder development of this industry and, therefore, the Government is working towards the development of a good road and increase power supply to the area in order to attract investors to Mwinilunga.

Mr Speaker, creation of a market lies not only on the revival of the defunct Mwinilunga Cannery Limited, but in attracting investors to setup new processing plants that will be consuming the pineapples. Secondly, the Government will support the development of out-grower schemes to provide sustainable production of pineapples to the processing plants.

The Government working with the private-sector is establishing economic zones and industrial parks under the Multi Facility Economic Zones (MEFZs) concept that will attract investment in value-addition plants to process agricultural products which include pineapples. The Government, through the Zambia Development Agency Act, has provided attractive tax incentives to reduce the cost of setting up such plants by investors by waiving duty on imported equipment and machinery for investments in value addition processing plants.

The Lumwana Multi Facility Economic Zones Master Plan includes processing of agricultural products as among the industries that will be located in the economic zone with the aim of promoting and facilitating value addition to our agricultural produce.

Mr Speaker, other companies already attracted and being encouraged to start the processing of pineapples are PEPSI of India and California Beverages. The Government has granted tax incentives to the companies to reduce the cost of their operations to promote this industry.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, with regard to the Government encouraging the private sector to partner with foreign investors in order to set up a plan, I am alive to the fact that the local initiative, before it was made through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), …

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask a question.

Mr Katuka: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Could the hon. Minister indicate how the Government can bend the rules of the CEEC to facilitate the local people to set up a plant using the funds of the commission with a limit of K2 billion.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government has, actually, set up financial institutions to promote the development of various sectors of the economy among which is the CEEC. 

Hon. Government Member:  Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Through the CEEC, there is the citizen’s economic empowerment fund from which eligible citizens had applied for financial resources and equipment to support their investment initiatives. Therefore, if there are members within the hon. Member’s constituency who would like to partner with investors, whether they are local or foreign, they should approach our ministry and they will be facilitated because with a limit of K2 billion, there is a lot that can be done to secure equipment that can go towards pineapple processing.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka): Mr Speaker, this game of canning pineapples, as we may know it, has been going on for over fifty years. It started with the missionaries on a small factory then a big factory and up to-date, it has failed. Is the hon. Minister sure or is it not just a bad idea and that we should stop spending public money on something were the numbers are not justifiable.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is the Government’s intention to diversify the economy and add value to the products that are produced locally and, of course, it is known that the Government is not in the business of canning pineapples. What Government is doing is to encourage its citizens to undertake such activities. Therefore, to support these activities, the Government has, among other things, set up funds like the CEEF for which citizens can draw resources for their own investment opportunities. Therefore, it is not a bad idea, but a good one which will promote, among other things, diversification of the economy, agriculture and employment in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Mwansa: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, if the people of Mwinilunga cannot find an international investor or an investor from the Southern Province, and yet they want the project to go on and the CEEC can only give K2 billion, can the ministry help the people of Mwinilunga get some assistance from a commercial bank with reduced rates?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I think we are being very hypothetical here. The citizens of Mwinilunga who want to set up a canning factory to process their pine apples, first of all, have not established what size of pine apple factory they want to set up and as such have not established whether the K2 billion offered by the CEEC is inadequate. So, I would like to propose to the hon. Member who asked the question to request the prospective local investors from Mwinilunga to come to the ministry to work with our officials and draw up a plan of how we can come up with a factory that can make use of the pineapples that they will grow.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, a pineapple, as a fruit, is eaten all over the world. May I know if the Government has made any efforts to export pineapples for this purpose.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, pineapples are grown in Zambia as well as many other parts of the world. The Government, through trade missions that go out of the country and, indeed, foreign missions, promotes the crop that is grown in Zambia because we understand that the Zambian variety is much better than most of other varieties grown around. Therefore, the Government, through trade missions, encourages local producers of pineapples to join these missions when they go on trade missions abroad because as I said earlier on, the Government is not interested in doing business of pineapples. However, it can facilitate for the travelling abroad of entrepreneurs who want to trade in pineapples. This way, they can expose the pineapple crop to prospective markets outside the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, what incentives are being provided to the existing local companies that are operating outside the economic zones such as Zambezi and Lusaka industrial parks that are being said?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry may provide a bonus answer, if he has one.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, there is none.

Laughter 

CONSTRUCTION OF LUNDAZI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

7. Mr C. K. Banda asked the Minister of Health when funds would be provided for the resumption of the construction of Lundazi District Hospital which stalled in 2001.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, Government has planned to construct district hospitals in all districts that do not have a district hospital in a phased approached. In the Eastern Province, there are currently two hospitals under construction, one in Chama and another in Chadiza. The construction of a district hospital in Lundazi has been planned for 2010 and to this effect an allocation of K2 billion has been provided for in the 2010 budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, despite Lundazi having a district hospital, is the hon. Minister aware that the Government embarked on an extension programme which stalled in 2001? Since then, questions have been raised on the Floor of this House about this extension. With certainty, may the hon. Minister tell the people of Lundazi or at least give them assurance that the extension works that stalled in 2001 will commence.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, I cannot add anything more to what I have said. The answer was categorical that K2 billion has been allocated for the construction of a hospital in the said district in our budget for 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A CLASSROOM BLOCK AT CHIMFUNTU BASIC SCHOOL

8. Ms Chitika (Kawambwa) asked the Minister of Education when the Government would construct a 1 x 3 classroom block at Chimfuntu Basic School.

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, currently, the ministry is constructing two 1 x 2 classrooms in Kawambwa District at Kawambwa Central Basic School and Chisembe Basic School at a cost of K240,000,000. Kawambwa District is also constructing six 1 x 2 classrooms at three sites namely; Nteke, Kabombo and Chibote Basic Schools at a cost of K720,000,000.

In view of the above, the district will only consider constructing new classrooms at Chimfuntu Basic School when the ongoing projects are completed and according to the prioritised needs of the districts and availability of funds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Chitika: Mr Speaker, the pupil population at Chimfuntu Basic School has increased since we last built the only classroom block in 1998, but the hon. Minister’s answer does not give us any hope. The schools that the hon. Minister has indicated …

Mr Speaker: Do you have a follow-up question?

Ms Chitika: Yes, Mr Speaker. The schools that the hon. Minister has indicated are not all in Kawambwa Constituency. When is the Government going to build a classroom block at Chimfuntu Basic School?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the simple answer is when we complete the ongoing projects.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

{mospagebreak}

PROPERTIES HELD ON TITLE IN CHINSALI

10. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali Central) asked the Minister of Lands:

(a)    how many residential and commercial properties were held on title in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency as of 30th December, 2008; and

(b)    of the number above, how many belonged to the Government.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, there were sixty-seven properties held on title in the Chinsali Constituency as of 30th December, 2008, broken down as follows:

Residential    Commercial

64                            3

None of the above mentioned properties belonged to the Government.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the procedures …

Laughter

Mr C. Mulenga: … for getting title deeds at the Ministry of Lands are cumbersome. It is very difficult for people from rural areas to get titles. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is considering decentralising the issuance of title deeds up to the district level so that we empower the people in the rural areas with title deeds.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, what should be understood is that title deeds are client-driven. The client is the one who goes to look for the title deed and therefore, even if the issuance of titles was decentralised up to the district level, people are not going to seek titles unless they are sensitised. We actually mentioned in this House sometime back that hon. Members would be helpful in explaining to the people how to go about getting a title deed. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to tell us whether Shambalakale Farm in Chinsali is on title, and if it is, whether the Government has any intentions to turn it into a national monument, given its historical stature.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, in my answer, I indicated that there were sixty-four residential and three commercial properties in this constituency. Hence, if Shambalakale Farm is a commercial farm, it could probably be on title.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, as regards the last part of the question, the power to declare any place a national monument actually lies with the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and not the Ministry of Lands.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Minister of Lands is aware that some of these properties have been left to vulnerable children by parents who have died. However, some of these children cannot even travel from districts such as Chinsali to Lusaka to access title deeds. Therefore, is the Government considering using the media, like the Zambian National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) which they are in control of and has national coverage, to educate the people on accessing title deeds? People could then use the title deeds to access money from the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is true that there may be vulnerable people around the country. However, I would like to repeat what I said in my earlier answer. The acquisition of title deeds is client-driven. If the hon. Member wants advice on how to help some people who may fall into this category, she could go to the council, which is our agent. There is a council with a planning officer and a Plans Committee in Chinsali. Some hon. Members of Parliament may be members of that committee. That is one area in which the hon. Member could help people who may fall into this category. Furthermore, we have our Provincial Lands Officers, surveyors, and revenue collectors in every province. We are present in every part of the country and anyone can get advice that they want from their offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I wish to guide the House especially with the follow-up question given by the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali. The House is aware that the National Assembly or Parliament has its own radio network. If hon. Members have something to communicate in terms of informing their electorates in their constituencies, they are free to go on Parliament Radio free of charge …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … and communicate to their voters in that particular constituency. At the moment, Parliament Radio is heard nearly in all provinces except, for the time being, the Western and Eastern Provinces where the transmission is still being built. Therefore, you are free to simply approach our team of announcers and they will make room for you.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the question that has been asked by the hon. Member for Chinsali is a very important one which the hon. Minister must answer properly and fully.

Despite the fact that applicants do all the formalities, it is difficult for them to get title deeds at the ministry. The reason the hon. Member asked that question was for you to explain why it is difficult for people to get title deeds despite them meeting all the formalities that are required?

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I am just looking at the question now and it is very clear. It says: 

(a)    how many residential and commercial properties were held on title in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency as of 30th December, 2008; and 

(b)    of the number above, how many belong to the Government.

That is the question which was asked by the hon. Member for Chinsali. 

Mr Ntundu: Follow up!

Mr Mabenga: As for the follow-up question, I indicated here that title deeds are actually got on a client-driven basis. What it means is that when people finish filling in all the formalities, surely, they should be able to get their title deeds. Of course, it is possible that certain people may take a long time to get these title deeds and there could be reasons that could be attached to such circumstances. Otherwise, generally, we try by all means and we are working out now ways to ensure that whatever has been an impediment is put aside so that our people can get their titles on time and …

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Mabenga: … Mr Speaker, I am the only speaker and Hon. Kambwili has never been one.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: So, keep quiet.

Mr Speaker, I believe that I have answered the question from the hon. Member for Gwembe. We are trying to work out a system where all these problems will be solved so that our people can get their titles on time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Lands has not been fair to this question …

Mr Speaker: Order! What is your question?

Mr Muyanda: My question is will you be sincere enough to this august House that at the Ministry of Lands, it is not possible to get the title deeds within the shortest period of, say, four weeks? I am one of those who have witnessed it and have failed to get my title deeds for my plot in Livingstone. Can you disagree with that statement?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Let me remind the House that the main question is related to a specific area. We are, now, talking of title deeds in Livingstone. From Chinsali to Livingstone, that is a bit too wide, I believe.

Laughter
___________

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the speech by His Excellency the President which was delivered on Friday, last week. 

Sir, I wish to begin by saying that after listening to the speech of the President and indeed, after reading the speech, I was, with my limited vocabulary, looking for a better terminology to describe the President’s Speech. The only terminology which came is that this is an academic exercise in futility. Why do I say so? It is because when you look at the President’s Speech of last year, there is absolutely nothing that was put into practice. It is my third year in this House and I have tended to have a problem understanding why, in fact, we should have President’s speeches because every time a President’s Speech is given, absolutely no action is taken on the pronouncements that are made on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President appealed to hon. Members of Parliament, Ministers and, indeed, civil servants to sacrifice this year by not asking for exorbitant salaries. Sir, you can only sacrifice if you get enough. There is no way the President can ask the civil servants, nurses, Members of Parliament and Ministers to sacrifice when what we get cannot even take us half the month.

Mr Speaker, British Airways employees sacrifice their one month’s salary because the one-month’s salary that they get can take them up to three months. However, in Zambia, how much do we get for us to sacrifice? I tend to wonder which direction the President was coming from for advising us that we should sacrifice.

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. It was in this House in the last sitting last year when we were trying to move …

Interruptions

Mr Mbewe: Sir, I need your protection. I am being threatened.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: We wanted the salaries to increase and the speaker who is on the Floor now was one of those hon. Members who were voting against the Government to increase the salaries for hon. Members of Parliament …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

That point of order is not sustained. The House may not debate themselves. In fact, I should have equally drawn the attention of the hon. Member for Roan not to include, in his debate, hon. Members of this House. He should refer to other categories of workers.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

What I was trying to say was the fact that the civil servants, on average, get about K1.5 million per month. This money is not enough for a worker to use for the whole month. Therefore, the issue of sacrifice must not even be talked about. It is high time the Government increased the salaries of civil servants and other public workers. Only when civil servants are paid adequately can we talk about sacrifice. Maybe, the situation has changed as regards the President because we are told one head of State, in ten years, accumulated US$8 million. Maybe, the President is asking us to sacrifice …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Some of the matters are being mentioned in this House deliberately. I do now know why. You know that these are court cases. Do not make reference to them.

You may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

I thought he was acquitted. However, …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

You have to be very analytical if you are a leader. One case can have several permutations which may lead in different directions. The case you are referring to is one such case. You must move on to another point.

You may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

What I was trying to say was, maybe, the President has another source of income for him to ask other people to sacrifice, but he must know that the civil servants, who toil to develop this country, have no any other source of income and so they deserve better salaries.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of mobile hospitals, Zambians have rejected the mobile hospitals.

Hon. Government Members: No.

Mr Kambwili: Why does the Government consistently want mobile hospitals when Zambians have rejected them? 

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Why is the President consistently referring to the introduction of mobile hospitals when they have been rejected by the majority of people? This, indeed, is a very bad decision. I urge the President to seriously reflect on the comments of the ordinary people who have rejected the purchase of mobile hospitals. Please, can we use the money that we want to spend on mobile hospitals on other things than going for something that is very unpopular among the Zambians? 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: Why should we buy mobile hospitals when civil servants are getting low salaries and we are asking them to sacrifice? Civil servants are only going to sacrifice if they are paid enough money because they are the people who are going to run the mobile hospitals. How can somebody be happy to run a mobile hospital when the salary is low?

Mr Speaker, on the issue of the grain levy, I want to take Hon. Masebo’s debate as my own.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I want to remind my colleagues in Government that when a decision, which is not popular is made, we must come out and condemn it. It does not make sense to start supporting certain things that you even know will affect areas where you come from. For instance, the Mpongwe District Council depends entirely on the grain levy paid by the Mpongwe Development Company and many surrounding commercial farmers in Mpongwe. After harvest, they count how many metric tonnes of maize have been produced and they get a good cheque from this. Mpongwe stands to be one of the richest rural councils in Zambia. The scraping of grain levy by the President will adversely affect the operations of the Mpongwe District Council.

Mrs Phiri: Tell them.

Mr Kambwili: I want to appeal to the President to rescind his decision and let the grain levy continue. If the President wants to help the small-scale farmers, he should have said that those who produce up to twenty bags of maize will not pay grain levy. However, to exclude everybody is going to affect the financial base of most rural councils.

On the fight against corruption, Mr Speaker, we must practice what we preach. It is extremely disturbing to find a Head of State travelling to Solwezi on the same plane with a corrupt person, and yet the following day, he says we should be fighting corruption. We know that the acquittal of one particular individual has been condemned by a lot of people, and yet the Head of State travels on the same plane with this character using tax-payers’ money.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Even under the most extraordinary conditions, you cannot call a Zambian a character. You cannot do that and certainly not in this House. The hon. Member for Roan will withdraw that word and henceforth, I require you to use civil and acceptable language in this House.

You may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: I withdraw it, Mr Speaker. 

This particular individual, whose acquittal is questionable, is travelling on the same plane as the Republican President. How can we fight corruption?

Mr Chimbaka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, but I am compelled by circumstances. Is it in order for the hon. Member for Roan, Mr Chishimba Kambwili,  who was among the first millions of people to send messages of encouragement and well wishes on telephone to the person he is referring to when he was acquitted, today, to stand on the Floor of this House and speak to the contrary? Does he really appeal to his morals, if he has any? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The point of order, which has been raised by the hon. Member for Bahati, is extremely important and is sustained. I order this House to refrain from debating, as I have said before, matters concerning individuals who are not in this House and are, therefore, not afforded an opportunity to defend themselves. That form of debate is out of line, is not allowed and has not been allowed in this House. 

The hon. Member for Roan will move on to another point if he has any.

He may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Still on corruption, Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption cannot be won with Cabinet Ministers saying that other people have to go to prison while others should not. There is nowhere where it is written that only poor people can go to prison. Hon. Ministers must be very serious about the pronouncements they make. 

We have supported this Government in the fight against corruption, but now, they are daring the people of Zambia by saying that it is only them who can decide who goes or does not go to prison.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, let me comment on the construction industry that the President talked about in his speech. Zambia is spending its tax payers’ money supporting development in other countries. Currently, almost all the companies in the construction industry are of Chinese origin. Local companies such as Minestone, Lumbwe Construction and many others are not getting construction contracts. 

Sir, a visit to the classrooms that are being built by the Ministry of Education across Zambia, will confirm that 90 per cent of the jobs are being done by Chinese companies. This, therefore, means that when we pay them using tax payers’ money, our money ends up developing China. I urge the Hon. Minister to seriously consider coming up with a policy such that only jobs that cannot be done by legitimately-owned Zambian companies owned by Zambian nationals, are given to Chinese companies. There is no way a Zambian company can be awarded a contract to construct a school in China. Therefore, we should also reciprocate.

Mr Speaker, let me speak about the issue of the Soweto Market. Hon. Masebo has the master list of the people who were moved from the Soweto Market when its construction was started. However, someone within the Government has used their cadres to form a committee that is allocating stalls at the Soweto Market. We want the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to consult Hon. Masebo for that master list so that people are not disadvantaged. 

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: This issue has caused a lot of confusion. So far, two committees have been suspended. This market was completed in September last year, but it has taken one year to allocate stalls. What kind of allocation is that? We want the market to operate by following what we agreed upon with the marketeers. 

Mr Speaker, what is going to happen is that people will now refuse to pave way for the construction of modern markets because when they are moved from the market, they are not given back the stalls once construction is completed. This is a serious issue that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing must take up. We should avoid politicising the issue of market stalls.

Some of the people at the Soweto Market who were dubiously allocated stalls are not even marketeers. They are now selling the stalls at K10 million. I want to urge the Acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to quickly move in and resolve this issue.

Mr Speaker, I now address the issue of retrenchments in the mining industry. The investors who are running the mines retrenched a lot of people for the reason that the copper price was low. Now that the copper price is twice the price at the time of retrenchment, I am urging the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to engage these mining companies to find a lasting solution. 

Mr Speaker, we have refused to impose windfall tax on these mines and the only way we can get revenue is by these mining companies employing a lot of Zambians who will contribute to the national coffers through Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE). 

Sir, we should not let go these investors who openly told the whole world that they were retrenching because the price of copper had gone down. Now that the price of copper has gone up, we want them to re-engage the miners who were retrenched as a result of the slump in the copper price. 

Mr Speaker, we now have a situation in the mining industry where even those pushing wheelbarrows and other general workers are foreigners. One example is the Chambeshi NFC Mine where we have over one hundred Chinese nationals pushing wheelbarrows at the expense of creating jobs for our Zambians. The second example is Nchanga Mine where we have a lot of Indians. If you went to Chingola today, you will feel as though you were in Bombay because there are many of these Indians doing odd jobs at the mine when the local people are out of employment. 

Mr Speaker, these are serious issues that we expected the President to address in his speech to this House. Unfortunately, the speech was an academic exercise which did not tackle the real issues. 

Mr Speaker, I would also like to comment on Maamba Collieries. This is a very profitable mine.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: There is only one simple solution to this and that is the Government should pay off all retirees and former employees who are no longer working for Maamba Collieries, but have remained on the pay roll. Once that is done, we will not even need an investor. The mine can run. ZCCM-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) took over the operations of Maamba Collieries one year ago. The problem ZCCM-IH is facing is the payment of salaries to people who are not even working. They are being paid because the company has failed to pay them separation packages. If the Government paid the separation packages, Maamba Collieries will run under ZCCM-IH without bringing in an investor.

Mr Muyanda: You are right, my brother. Hammer!

Mr Kambwili: We have a lot of coal that has been mined at Maamba, and yet some of the mining companies are importing coal from Zimbabwe. Of course we can support our neighbours by providing a market, but we can only provide a market when we have exhausted the local one. It does not make sense to continue importing coal from Hwange when there is coal at Maamba.

Mr Speaker, I urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to seriously consider revamping the Maamba Mine.

Mr Speaker, finally, I wish to say that when I was in the United Kingdom two weeks ago, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: … one white man, a Mr John Cowan, told me that Africa was richer than Europe. He said the problem we have is that our politics are so presidential based that we always want to leave decisions to the President. However, when there is a President who cannot perform, like is the case in many African countries, Zambia inclusive, the country goes on auto pilot. We need hon. Ministers who can make decisions and criticise the President within Cabinet when they know that a wrong decision has been made.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Where? Which country? In the Zambian Cabinet?

Mr V. Mwale: Anakunama wamene uyo Cowan.

Mr Kambwili: We do not want hon. Ministers who are going to be yes bwanas if we are going to develop. 

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: I took this muzungu very seriously because the problem that we have in Africa is that when a new head of State comes into office, he changes everything that the previous one embarked on. 

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: In my language there is a saying that goes, “Ngawaupa umwanakashi uwaupwapo, wilaumfwa ubufuba pali balya abana wasanga mung’anda. Fylamo abobe”

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: This means that when you marry a woman who already has children, do not be jealous of the children, but just produce your own. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I am, therefore, urging politicians to be serious in the way we carry out development programmes of this country by doing the right thing at the right time. 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, I am indebted to you for this opportunity to make my contribution to this very important debate. 

Mr Speaker, in debating the President’s Speech, I am not going to talk about the malaise and hopelessness which is afflicting this country.

Laughter

Mr Sejani: I am not going to talk about the poverty which is afflicting Zambians. This is a subject which we, on this side of the House (left) have dealt with for a very long time. On the contrary, I am going to flip the coin onto the other side and talk about the poverty of leadership…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani:…as the main cause of all the malaise and hopelessness which this country is suffering from. Henceforth, my theme this year is, “Deal first with poverty of leadership, then consequently, all other things shall fall in place.”  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I have in my possession an executive summary of the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) which coincidentally comes to an end in 2010. This Presidential Address is the final one in this House to deal with the FNDP. As we all know, a Presidential Speech which comes once in a year is drawn from a five year development plan. These speeches are supposed to make reference to what was provided for in development plans. More particularly so, when it comes to the final, there will be no other, the next one will talk about the Sixth National Development Plan. This was the final speech the President should have used to refer to this document and provide some sort of review on what was contained in this document, what we have achieved as a country and what we have failed to achieve, but nothing of that sort was done. 
Sir, I wonder how the people who prepare the Presidential Speech go about doing their work. I wonder whether they have time at all to refer to their own documents. I have said that I am referring to the poverty of leadership and I am going to demonstrate by pointing out certain pronouncements in the President’s Speech, which have made me reach that conclusion. 

Mr Speaker, I will only look at a few selected sectors. In the FNDP, we were promised as Zambians that there would be a programme for local development planning and budgeting which would have specific objectives. Under local government, there is a programme to implement the decentralisation policy which incidentally was adopted seven years ago, which up-to-date has not been implemented. I want somebody in Government to stand-up and tell me what he or she has done to implement this very important document. I was there when this document was being put together and even then, I was a critic of this Government...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, as the hon. Member for Mapatizya resumes his debate, I want to guide hon. Members to manage their excited interventions or interjections in order to enable the Chair to listen to the debate so that the Chair may guide the proceedings of the House properly. There is always only one debater on the Floor at a time. If you feel strongly about some of the things which are being said, wait until you have your turn to debate. 

The hon. Member for Mapatizya may continue and the Chair will protect him.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I am most indebted to you.  At the time we broke off for tea, I was complaining about the lack of preference in the President’s Speech to issues that this Government promised the people of Zambia in the FNDP. I expected an in-depth preference in that speech to the issue contained in the FNDP because it is the last one before the FNDP comes to an end. I stared identifying some critical sectors on which we expected comments from the President in his speech, for example, local government. I was saying that we were promised that this Government was going to implement the decentralisation policy which was adopted seven years ago, but up-to-date, there is no tangible movement towards implementing the policy. One would have expected the President to refer to this matter, but he did not. 

Mr Speaker, we were promised that there would be a programme for financial management and accountability. This programme was also going to create capacity in the local authorities so as to enhance the capacity of the councils to mobilise resources. All these were the promises that were given to the Zambians in the FNDP. However, the President has banned grain levy, upon which the majority of our rural councils depend on for survival has been banned.

Mr Speaker, I want to join the hon. Members of Parliament who are condemning this move as being short-sighted. There are only two sectors that will drive rural development in this country, the local government and agricultural sector. At a time when we should be talking about enhancing the financing of the local government, a source from which councils generate a little income has been withdrawn. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Sejani: Where is the Government taking this country? We are reducing the capacity of these institutions which are supposed to be providers of goods and services to our people. 

At a time when we are asking for an increase in allocations of funds to local authorities, we are taking away a source were they can earn some money. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, there is a fundamental flaw in our situation because out of the entire national budget, only 3 per cent goes directly to local authorities. 97 per cent of all public expenditure is done in Lusaka. There might be money in the budget for a certain road in a rural area, but the procurement and expenditure is done here in Lusaka, at the centre. We all know, and the media is full of stories of corruption at the centre. The corruption which is done at the centre affects the whole country. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Why not spread the risk by taking these resources to the local authorities. If people are corrupt in Kalonga, it will not affect Livingstone.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: If there is corruption in Kalomo, it will not affect Monze or Mpika. It will affect the local people in that particular area and it will be their problem. However, we are moving in reverse gear. There is poverty of leadership. 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

{mospagebreak}

Mr Sejani: I expect that very soon, this decision, to deny local authorities their only source of income, will be rescinded so that we can make progress. 

Mr Speaker, under housing in the FNDP, we were promised a national housing development programme whose objective was to increase the housing stock in districts for both household ownership schemes and rentals. I do not know how many houses you have built over the last five years. The President’s Speech made absolutely no reference to the housing scheme.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: This is poverty of leadership. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
 
Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, we were promised that we were going to have squatter compounds upgraded to improve the environment of the unplanned urban settlements. Tell me when you come to wind up how many squatter compounds you have upgraded in the last five years. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero!

Mr Sejani: The President made no reference to this whatsoever. We were promised that there would be low cost housing development schemes for the poorest of the poor …

Laughter

Mr Sejani: …in this country in both urban and rural areas. How many houses have you built for the poor people over the last five years? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero!

Mr Sejani: You do not even want to make reference to that programme, but just want to embark on a new adventure called the Sixth National Development Plan without looking back … 

Laughter 

Mr Sejani: …at what you said in the FNDP. 

Mr Kambwili: You are in trouble. 

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech is silent on this issue. This is a poverty of leadership. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, under agriculture, we were promised that there would be a programme for irrigation development whose objective was to promote a well regulated and profitable irrigation sector that would be attractive to both the public and private sector. Where are you irrigating? 

Laughter 

Mr Sejani:  There is no reference to irrigation at all in the speech. 

Under agriculture, we are talking about liberalising agricultural marketing. If we are going to liberalise agricultural marketing, we must ensure, first of all that there is an enabling environment. We do not just need empty political talk. We must ask ourselves if we have roads leading to production centres where private sector traders will need to go for business. If there is no infrastructure, do not liberalise the marketing of agricultural produce because no traders will be willing to go to certain places. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Excellent.

Mr Sejani:  Do we have the storage facilities and market information in place to tell us where this produce is. If the enabling environment is absent, do not talk about agricultural liberalisation. It will be a total disaster, but here we are wanting to liberalise.

Mr Speaker, the private sector cannot practice fully in the agriculture sector because of infrastructure limitations. Further, because of budget limitations, the Government can only go so far. Who is going to deal with the produce of the people where the private sector and the Government cannot reach? There is a gap.

Mrs Masebo: FRA.

Mr Sejani: Who will?  FRA is a wing of the Government.

Laughter  

Mr Sejani: There is a serious flaw in our planning. 

Mr Speaker, we have seen the problems of the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). You said it would be revised and restructured. What we are witnessing instead are people talking about the number of bags to be given to one person. The question is not about the number of bags, but a structural one. In what way are the camp committees structurally superior to the co-operatives which are also committees? How are they different? How is a camp committee different from a co-operative committee? We have not dealt with the real issues that affect the FSP.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Poverty of leadership.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, we were promised that in the process of empowering our Zambians with land, all citizens would be eligible to apply for both customary and State land to promote effective citizenry access to land. What have we seen? Firstly, people have been removed from their ancestral land.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Sichifulo is a shining example. There is poverty of leadership.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I can go on and list the pronouncements which I find faulty in this speech. You remove the easy to calculate windfall tax and bring in the variable tax. 

Laughter

Mr Sejani: What are you talking about? You sold 75 per cent of Zamtel shares to foreigners. Where are the Zambians? 

Mr Speaker, I can go on, but I am tired …

Laughter

Mr Sejani: …of listing examples of poverty of leadership. For those that are questioning what I am saying, I want to tell them that I am qualified to speak like this, not because I am sitting on this side of the House. I also sat that side once and I was fired twice for speaking the way I am speaking. 

In 1994, I told you not to sell the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) as a whole, but to unbundle it and for that I was fired. You unbundled it and later brought me back. In 2001, I said no to the third term, you fired me. I am qualified to speak the way I am speaking.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I spoke my mind on that side of the House and I am speaking like this on this side. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear. Hear!

Mr Sejani:  I am no idle talker and I am now speaking that the only way this country will liberate itself is by critically looking at the poverty of leadership.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I am calling upon Zambians that 2011 is coming.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Day of Judgment.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: 2011 is coming for Zambians to liberate yourselves. This is the time to free yourselves. This is the time to get rid of this tired Government…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: ...because a tired regime exhibits all that is in old age including toughness. We have spoken, but they have not listened.

 Hon. UPND Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I expect that, in 2011, judgment day will come to this nation.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Sir, I would like to thank you for acknowledging me.

Mr Speaker, I know that my colleagues have themes upon which they have based their addresses today.   Therefore, I will move to also choose a theme, which I call the usefulness of harmless speeches.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, there is an experience which is called the Stockholm Syndrome. When a terrorist abducts certain victims and holds them captive, for some time, they hate this terrorist. After a long time, they get so used to him and even begin to defend him. Some of them even love the terrorists.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: That is the Stockholm Syndrome. People have been used to speeches, in this House, that admonish the Opposition, antagonistic and ‘fight-fight’. They are a bit lost when they see a President come to this House and deliver a speech based on reason.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, homonoli slipus is a Latin phrase meaning that we tend to fear a wolf in the neighbour. Sometimes, we forget that the wolf is often inside.

 Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Sir, there is a very small interesting statistic. When we had the by-election in Chitambo, we had a lot of Local Government by-elections at the same time and statistics will show. I wish to congratulate the UPND for doing tremendous work. They won 93 per cent of the seats that they contested. I do not know what I can say about their partner …

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: … but if figures are anything to go by, I could say that they secured about 37 per cent of what they contested. Now, I do not know who is the rider and who is the horse here.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: My colleagues in the UPND must begin to re-think their strategy.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: There is a risk in the Pact.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Sinazongwe who spoke about Maamba Collieries. He is a very hard-working hon. Member who is staggering to get your attention.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Dr Kalumba: He is one of those that I owe much to because, often, he is a very sober man outside…

Laughter

Dr Kalumba:…and  an educator who has taught me how to keep cattle.

Laughter

 Mr Beene: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! Take your seat.

Dr Kalumba: First and foremost, on a serious note, we celebrate Zambiance and the President was right when he said 2009 was a difficult year. It takes realism and boldness of character to be able to admit to your people that this has been a tough year.  Realistic leadership is not about emotions or playing to the gallery. 

Hon. Government Members: No!

Dr Kalumba: It is the mind of the economist in the types of RB…

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba:…who will come here and say things as they are. He will put them without embellishments, jargon or theatre.

Interruptions

Dr kalumba: That is the kind of leadership…

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I am listening to one debator who is on the Floor of this House and I have not heard any departure from the norms of debating in this House.

May the hon. Member for Chienge continue.

Hon Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I thank you, Sir.

Let us thank our fellow Zambians like the miners who have sacrificed. They went through a hard time when the jobs were cut. Let us acknowledge that as leaders and as their representatives. Let us thank them for standing up in those hard times. They could have been riotous, but there were not. Decent Zambians felt the pinch of crisis, but it was not caused by Rupiah Banda.  That crisis was global. For most of us who are enlightened enough to hit a key on the computer, we can learn something about the global economic crunch or financial crunch. You will understand that. We know that it was not created at State House in Lusaka.

We would, therefore, like to thank our fellow Zambians, the teachers, who were touched by the fact that they could not secure increased wages, because the budget could not accommodate it. Nurses, angry as they were, came down to terms with the reality that Zambia could not afford higher wages.

Realism in leadership is what is required. If we play to the gallery, come with emotions and promise heaven on earth, we will end up creating chaos in Zambia. As elected representatives, we have a responsibility and an obligation to our people to speak the truth. 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!  

Dr Kalumba: Even if it hurts, speak the truth. The President said things were rough and tough, but we need one common ingredient for us to pull together - unity of purpose as Zambians…

Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba:…to overcome this adversity. We will not do it by simply throwing stones at each other. That level of politics is gone. 

Mr Speaker, I want to stand with Hon. Muyanda and say, “Yes, we must do something about Maamba Collieries”. I want to share the passion with you, Sir. We will not do it if we start throwing stones at each. We have to come together and say, “Yes, let us look at our grain marketing strategies”. This is an important issue for our people. We will not do that if we have to throw stones at each. Let use reason rather than emotion to move our people forward. We are too used to being influenced by – I know my brother met some gentleman in London who told him about something.

Dr Kalumba looked at Mr Kambwili.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: You should have consulted closer to home. 

Dr Kalumba: I love the passion of the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan. He is very passionate.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Sometimes!

Dr Kalumba: I would want him to, sometimes, add that with a soberness of character that is required to speak about mining and mining issues.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: It is important that we listen to you.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: It is important that we listen to his passion on mining. We need leaders who can inspire us, inspiring us by telling us that we need to put more money to improve marketing.

As a back bencher here, and I know my colleagues in front will not applaud me for that, but I do not need their applause. The applause will come later. We need to increase the fertiliser support package to our farmers because we know that when we improve food security, our people will not be rioters.

Interjections

Dr Kalumba: Thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: It is important that a message like that does not hurt you or me. When the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, who is quite beefy, stands up …

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: … and passionately speaks about agriculture, I hear him. He has been in the field of agriculture for many years and, so, I respect his opinion. When the hon. Member for Monze Central, speaks about local government, I hear him because he had been a town clerk for some time. He has not forgotten how to be a town clerk and I am sure he can become a town clerk any time.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: We have a road engineer in here who speaks well and he is a calm gentleman who worked for the Ministry of Works and Supply. He can advise Hon. Mulongoti and he will listen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Therefore, for the former Minister of Local Government and Housing, my good friend, Hon. Sejani, I would like him to stand up and propose concrete ideas about improving local government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: This House is a governing council of some sort. We come together here to share ideas to improve the welfare of our people.

{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga: Mulongoti, do you hear that?

Dr Kalumba: We do not come here to throw punches. No!

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chimbaka: … I would like to thank you most sincerely for affording me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion of Thanks on the speech presented by the President on Friday, 18th September, in the year of the Lord 2009.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Sir, I would also want to convey thanks from the people of Bahati to the Government of the Republic of Zambia for having resolved the problem of payments to the former Mansa Batteries workers that confronted them for the past eighteen years. In this year’s Budget, the Government has committed K600 million, which amount of money is ready for payment to the people. I commend you, through the Government, for having done that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: The people of Bahati are very happy.

Mr Speaker, I want to be realistic as my elder brother has said that there is a sitting Government in place. The people of Zambia mandated you to govern us but you must be aware that there shall always be detractors, critics, hollow debaters and fanatical politicians …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: … but all you need is to be serious and mindful of the fullness of some speeches on the Floor of the House and reject the emptiness of some of these speeches. This does not call for high blood pressure (BP) but for level headedness and super mindedness.

Sir, it is important to realise that every year, every term and with whichever Government in place, there should always be self evaluation and assessment. As a teacher and very effective lecturer, I always believed in that.

Mr Speaker, we had the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) in place. This plan comes to an end in 2011. How have we reflected on that?

Hon. Member: Nothing!

Mr Chimbaka: I know a reflection has been made. That is why there was the Indaba.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: A reflection has been made and that is why there was the National Constitutional Conference (NCC).

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: A reflection has been made and that is why there is also the 2006 Fund.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chimbaka: However, I would like to urge the Government of the day to strengthen the weaker points …

Mr Kambwili: Ooh!

Mr Chimbaka: … and carry on with the stronger points that were embedded in the FNDP.

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: It is very true.

Sir, let me now talk about employment creation. Mr Speaker, sometimes, people are not realistic to themselves. I have lived and travelled all over the world as a representative and unionist. Nowhere did I ever find any government providing employment to all its nationals. It has never happened. Maybe, it shall happen when Jesus comes to reign.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: It may come to pass when Jesus comes to reign.

Now, that is the responsibility of a leader. At any social strata, the role of a leader worth his salt is to provide leadership and interpret policy to the people he says he leads for them to appreciate governance.

Mr Kambwili: Baliluba!

Mr Chimbaka: That is why some of us who are really worth our salt will never be hollow in any way …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: … but shall be men of integrity with a reputation …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Chimbaka: … and a proper background. We shall always provide leadership that shall be recognised and appreciated by all people in Bahati Constituency in particular …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: … and Luapula Province as a whole. When I command, they listen because I am a leader.

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: I can challenge anybody. Yes!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, on the question of agriculture, I wish to mention that in 1978, at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre, Dr Kaunda said - and if you want to prove me right or wrong go to the library. There is a very rich library here where these reasonable people go to research in order to be well informed and they never heckle but listen. Dr Kaunda said:

“For Zambia to emancipate itself economically, there is need for every Zambian to appreciate the agro industry.”

It is time that the Zambian Government thought about rural reconstruction in terms of industrialisation.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: If it was a mistake to privatise Mansa Batteries, then let us correct it. If it was wrong to privatise Kapiri Glass Factory, let us revisit our decision.

Ms Chitika: And Kawambwa Tea Company.

Mr Chimbaka: That is the only way. If we went back to Kawambwa Tea Scheme, repossessed Mununshi Banana Scheme and employed our resources, then you would do things right.

Mr Speaker, when I had the largest Indaba in Mansa, and hon. Members can agree with me, I drew all youths from the streets. What did they tell me? They said, “Hon. Chimbaka, if you have power enough, we do not like the streets. Take us to your farm, we are going to farm.” I called upon Amico, an Indian of Asian origin, who runs a chain of stores in Mansa. He employed a good number of them and they stopped being a nuisance on the streets of Mansa. 

Interjections

Mr Chimbaka: When Greenwell Ng’uni was Commanding Officer of the Police for Luapula Province, he got a good number of the streets kids and employed them. The Prisons Department also got them from the streets and most of them were reformed and are now married. It needs leadership. It does not need waffling at all.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: It needs critical thinking. Never at all, Mr Speaker, shall we realise political, economic and agro emancipation if we shall not, as leaders, seriously reflect on how we get nearer to the people and interact with them.

Brethren of this House, I want to tell you that the idea of success does not mean how loudly you talk here but it is in how closer you are to the people and the type of leadership you provide.That is key. Some of us will be called names, but we do not mind because after all even Jesus was called names. However, what matters is people saying they need my leadership. That is the most important thing.

Mr Speaker, on education, I have always spoken with passion. Hon. Sinyangwe, my favourite sister, knows very well that I have been a very reasonable critic of the education system since time immemorial. At one time, my elder sister and I used to quarrel because I did not believe that what was happening in the Ministry of Education was the right thing. Without proper education, there can be no emancipation of the people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, when you have a family of feebly qualified sons and daughters, then you have a problem because they cannot emancipate themselves. In sociology, there is social stratification. In this House, the hon. Mr Speaker and all of us know that there are some people who are the qualified of the qualified and there are some who are the enfeebles of the enfeebles.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Therefore, when we debate, I simply listen, look and appreciate the debates for what they are because I acknowledge that we are classed. There are persons who when they stand to talk, make you shake because they enchant you and convince you that there is reason in what they are talking about. It is not a matter of shouting loud, but a matter of trying to win the minds of the people. 

I want to thank the hon. Minister of Education and the Government at the large  for having called for an Indaba to consider the redesigning of the curriculum because without a proper curriculum to address the provision of survival skills for our children, this country will not be economically emancipated. We desire that as children graduate at grades 9, 12 and at university level, they should have attained skills to be independent and create employment out there.

Mr Speaker, in Central Africa, it is only in Zambia where everybody wants to stand and politic by saying that when they come into power, they will employ everybody. Where on earth can that happen? With what funds can it be achieved?

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Some people dream that one day they will wake up and find money growing on trees like oranges.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, there is need for a policy document or a manifesto to be done and the Government to interpret and direct the affairs of society. Thus, education is a serious matter.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say that those of you who went through voluntary national service will appreciate the fact that you are patriotic and self reliant. Other than the culture prevailing now, I would like the Government, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Ministry of Defence, to reconsider reintroducing the national service programme because it was very good.

Mr Speaker, I am agitating for the reintroduction of the national service programme because those who left Grade 12 then went through a system of training which had patriotism, self reliance and wisdom inculcated in it and maturity was attained. Even when they went into colleges, they were mature and, therefore, they behaved to the expectations of the people. That is not the culture that prevails at the moment. Our young men and women are doing what they are doing not out of their own design, but it may be out of the weaknesses of the education system. Nevertheless, I am happy that the symposium is taking that into account and I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Education and the Government at large for that.

Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia listen to the Government and this is a living testimony. When you drive along the streets of Lusaka, today, how many street vendors do you bump into?

Hon. Members: None!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, Freedom Way was impossible for learner drivers to drive through. Today, because the people of Zambia respect the Government, the street vendors have moved out. The Government should provide markets for them to trade peacefully and that is why you are in Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, on local government and housing, I would like to say that this sector has huge problems and the major one being that of capacity. I realised that Cabinet several times resolved to devolve and decentralise some of the powers to the councils, but the consideration that the late President Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace, was on whether the councils had the capacity to take all the responsibilities.

Mr Speaker, ever since the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development relegated the responsibility of drilling water boreholes to the people, there is very little that has been done because the councils do not have hydrologists to determine where the levels of water are accessible. Therefore, the wrangle that existed between the two ministries has adversely affected the programme of water provision and it has been a failure. I want to encourage the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to sit down with his counterpart and look at what way they can streamline their operations so that residents in peri-urban and urban areas can have the councils providing water for them through water companies while for rural arears like the Bahati Constituency, I would like the Ministry of Energy and Water Development to take its full role of providing boreholes.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, I now would like to talk about the issue of land. Without land, you are as good as dead.  A good number of people, even as we are sitting here, do not even have traceable routes not even a piece of land where when they are voted out tomorrow they would go to. They would rather squat. However, the passionate appeal that must be addressed is that there are constraints. I know that the hon. Minister of Lands is trying to come up with a system that is going to be effective, but the issue at hand is to avail land to the people of Zambia who have resolved to work very hard, after all the culture that has evolved is that the people of Zambia want to grow food to feed themselves.

Mr Speaker, I can go on and on, but I would like to give chance to others to waffle or make sense.

Laughter

The Minister for Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to say a few words on the Presidential Speech. I would like to preface my approach to this speech with the attitude that is developing in this country by us politicians.

There is the attitude of hate and scorn. If you hate an individual because he comes from the Opposition or the Government, you close your ears and sense to whatever that person you hate will say or do. 

    It is not right to think that every word in this speech is hollow, nothing and empty because when you say that, other reasonable people will also say that you as well are hollow.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, just this week, I was invited to an international conference where General Clifton of the Salvation Army was also in attendance.  I found some leaders attending in their right. I found the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), but he was not on the programme …

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: … and I found Ng’andu Magande, a leader in his own right, who was also not on the programme. So, I had to beg with the people who were in charge of that conference to allow these two people to greet the people attending this conference since these people know them as their leaders. When I stood as hon. Minister in charge of the Province …

Hon. Members: Yes, Boma!

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: … I gave chance to Hon. Magande to greet the people and say give a few words as he is a product of Chikankata. It would have been unfair not to have allowed him to speak and naturally I also called the president of the UPND to greet the people …

Hon. Members: Leadership.

Mr Munkombwe: … and say a few words. Somebody asked me if I was not scared of taking such action. My response was, “scared of what?”

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: The dishonest people would hide that fact, but I am not dishonest. That is why the system …

Mrs Masebo: Hear, hear! You are right.

Mr Munkombwe: … has found me useful for the many years that I have been around.

Laughter 

Mrs Munkombwe: I would never want to belong to a government or a party whose president holds me at arms length because I would quit. I want to belong to a government where a president has confidence in me because politics are about influence. In political parties you must be influential. If you are not influential, get out! This is because people will be sticking papers on your back with inscriptions that will define your worth.

Hon. Opposition Member: Wisdom.

Mr Munkombwe: In this case, I want to agree with the researched analysis of Hon. Sejani, Hon. Muntanga and so on. They have told us what is missing so we want to work on that and see if we can correct it as a Government. 

Interruptions

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, let us, who are in the Government, not live as frightened people. We must not be intimidated by people who cough and say, ho! ho! That is nothing. We are in charge of the Government ...

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: … and nothing will change that because we are not in boxing march.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: If it was boxing, some people would not be in existence. We are in charge until 2011. Let me take this opportunity to remind those who are saying 2011 is coming. Let those people who think the MMD …

Mr Sichilima: Is sleeping.

Mr Munkombwe: … is sleeping, …

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: … continue to think that way …

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: … because if we alarm them they will know how to fight us.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: I have some of the most prolific debaters from the Southern Province, Mr Speaker, but good debaters do not confuse their debates with anger.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: I shared this platform with some well-polished debaters in this country, the late Author Wina, Willa Mung’omba and Valentine Kayope who are still alive. These were cool and presented well-researched debates. I want to say that even with my little education, I copy certain words which some educated people use and make them my own at my own stages because I am prepared to learn.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: That is learning. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Some people where here for many years and went out empty.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: It is not right. So, once you confuse your approach to politics you will end up empty. 

Hon. Government Member: Kambwili wabumfwa.

Mr Munkombwe: My political patronage forces me to question what makes some people in the Opposition think that as soon as they are in the Government they will sell out. What type of thinking is that? Personally, I have been in all the Governments and I am not anybody’s bootlicker. I am trustworthy and responsible.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Presidents do not rule on emotions, but with passion. They do not react to unreasonable issues, but if you push them, you will get what you want. In fact, you can get almost all that you want.

Hon. Government Member: Tell them.

Mr Munkombwe: There was some Lozi man somewhere at another fora who accused me of leaping from one party to another. I do not do that. I belonged to the African National Congress (ANC) and I could not sit and wait to die when this party went into oblivion.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, perhaps, some little history may be relevant. We, as the ANC, lost elections in 1962, 1964 and 1968 and the great Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula said to us, “let go Kamunga.” It was in January, 1965 when Mr Nkumbula summoned Punabantu, a graduate, Saul Chiko, Philimon Kopolo, men he referred to as educated, and then he pointed at me, Mwanaachibwalo, to follow them. He told us that we had lost the political battle and that Kaunda had won and that we financed the struggle. I make no apology for saying that.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: He further questioned what we were going to do then and thereafter, advised us to join the United National Independence Party (UNIP) …

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: … so that we could get employed.

Mr V. Mwale: Mwamvera ba UPND. Mwanhwa.

Mr Munkombwe: Therefore, we were asked to leave and join UNIP. I stayed with Kenneth Kaunda, the man I respect and one of my mentors for twenty-seven years. However, I had to pay a price for sticking with him because I lost my seat in Choma.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: Nevertherless, I did not regret and did not petition because it is not in my nature to petition people’s judgements. Instead, I befriended Dr Syamujaye. After he won the elections, one of my daughters came to pull me and put me in my Benz, but I declined. I wanted to shake hands with Mr Syamujaye and help him to understand what Choma was about. That is what politics should be about.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Leadership!

Hon. Opposition Members: Not boxing.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, when people say the President’s Address was hollow or that they felt left out at some stage then begin to behave like they are going to die the following year before the next address, is dangerous.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: This is because each one of us has weaknesses. It is a question of the degree of the level of weaknesses. The question is to measure one’s percentage weaknesses because if they are 90 per cent, then one is finished. 

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

Mr Munkombwe: If my weaknesses are 35 per cent and 65 per cent are my rights, are you sure I can continue to be trusted? If, in any case, you find yourself irrelevant, please, you are quite safe to shut up.

Laughter 

Mr Munkombwe: You are quite safe to keep quiet because other people will analyse you. If you were appointed as hon. Minister for Southern and you push people unreasonably, other people will dig your roots and you will finish.
RRR
  So those hon. Members of the Ruling Party who have temporarily lost their Executive appointments should just be reserved instead of saying that they will sort out their own party members in 2011.  

Mr Speaker, I am sorry to say this and God forbid, but if some hon. Members’ party lost in 2001, 2006 and September, 2008, they are part of history. It does not matter what happens.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: There is no miracle that can resurrect them whatsoever. They can change the leadership of their party in certain positions, but their party can still not be resurrected. This is why my former party United National Independence Party (UNIP) finished likewise the Africa National Congress (ANC). I give due respect to my credible friend (gesturing towards Mr Lungu), the man who will continue to win even as an independent, but I think his party is, also, finished and  is now part of history.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: A person wins elections because of what they are and I think that is why my friend has been winning. 

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: However, with some people, despite their party being finished, they have continued quarrelling and calling other people names. They need to realise that their party is a relic. On the other hand, there is no way we are going to wait to be ambushed by some enthusiastic party.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: When we were removed from power, there were no political parties. There was a movement and the people who led it are ba Sejani, ba Muntanga and so on. They led the movement to get rid of those of us who were in UNIP. Yes, that man (pointing at Mr Muntanga).

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: However, nowadays when one reads the language being used in newspapers, you would think that there is chaos in the country. It is true that we have various problems such as starvation and poverty, but these cannot be overcome through the miracle of one person. As hon. Minister for Southern Province, Hon. Muntanga and Hon. Major Chizhyuka can agree with me that there is a lot of food in Chikankata and Siachitema areas. One cannot drive through three villages without filling up five lorries. So there is a lot of money in some people’s pocket, but there are still extremely poor people. Therefore, it is natural for some people to “swim” in money while others suffer. 

We should not behave as if Zambia is dying tomorrow. If leaders of the Opposition get overexcited and become too fanatical, the people will think they have nothing to offer. If they are able to offer something, which I know they do, the people will respect them. Therefore, we should not use language that is sarcastic because despite being an hon. Minister today, tomorrow I might not be and people would question my utterances.  

Mr Speaker, when I was an hon. Minister under President Kaunda, I did not throw my weight around and that is why I am still acceptable. I suppose that is why I am also marketable and I have been used by successive Governments because they want stability and they love me.  I, therefore, urge hon. Members to be credible and talk on points. I also would like to apprise even the most enthusiastic Members that when they debate, we agree with some of the things which they say except we cannot go over to the left.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: They should not squander their chances by advising us to a point where even their sympathisers say they are hopeless.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: They should not scatter their debate. They should organise their debates in a proper manner and then the Government will listen. It is alright for them to tell me their fantasies, but we are a listening Government. Governments are not built on fantasies and dreams, but on solid principles.

Mr Speaker, the late Humphrey Mulemba once stood in the Eastern Province, but I am not sure of the constituency. Dingiswayo Banda also stood somewhere in the Northern Province. Why should some people, this time around, say that they deserve to stand in certain provinces because they belong to particular groups? Those are dangerous politics which should not be entertained.

Interruptions

Mr Munkombwe: Any hon. Member of the Opposition who entertains such politics is lost. Hon. Mwaanga, popularly known as VJ, once stood in Luanshya and Sikalumba was detained in Namwala. I also recall Samson Mukando being tied to a tree in Kabompo.  Why are these juvenile politicians talking about tribalism?

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Now a Namwanga cannot vote for a Bemba. How many here are Bembas? Such politics are dangerous and we are moving this country towards problems we have never known. We have never experienced a civil war. We are, now, applying for a civil war so that a Tonga can fight an Ila. In the MMD, there is no tribalism. We will accept anybody from any part of the country. 

Mr Speaker, as my time has run out, I would like to conclude by saying that preaching of hatred begets hatred. We should preach love for one another. Why should I hate Hon. Sejani or Hon. Muntanga? We might belong to different parties and here pretend like we are not hearing, but when we go out, we will be whispering to each other.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: It is natural. So please, hatred and tribalism should not be entertained. Now people are not even allowed to contest elections in districts where they do not come from. That is horrible!

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: So, that is my plea to this House. I will continue, even when I will be on a wheelchair, to talk and open my mouth and I think the system will continue to use me usefully.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me this opportunity to add my voice to the President’s Speech which was presented in this august House during the official opening of Parliament. Before I give my views and opinion on the speech, I would like to join my score of friends who have paid their tribute to the deceased hon. Members of Parliament who were with us in the last sitting. 

Mr Speaker, without wasting much time, I would like to say that the President’s Speech was inspiring and gave us hope. The speech is a reflection and an indication of the path we should take together as a nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda: Zambia, being what it is, was not supposed to be a poor nation. The country is a land of abundance, but we, the leaders, cannot implement the policies of the Government.

Mr Speaker …

Mr Speaker: Order! May you angle the microphone towards yourself?

Mr Nyirenda changed the angle of his microphone.

  So those hon. Members of the Ruling Party who have temporarily lost their Executive appointments should just be reserved instead of saying that they will sort out their own party members in 2011.  

Mr Speaker, I am sorry to say this and God forbid, but if some hon. Members’ party lost in 2001, 2006 and September, 2008, they are part of history. It does not matter what happens.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: There is no miracle that can resurrect them whatsoever. They can change the leadership of their party in certain positions, but their party can still not be resurrected. This is why my former party United National Independence Party (UNIP) finished likewise the Africa National Congress (ANC). I give due respect to my credible friend (gesturing towards Mr Lungu), the man who will continue to win even as an independent, but I think his party is, also, finished and  is now part of history.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: A person wins elections because of what they are and I think that is why my friend has been winning. 

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: However, with some people, despite their party being finished, they have continued quarrelling and calling other people names. They need to realise that their party is a relic. On the other hand, there is no way we are going to wait to be ambushed by some enthusiastic party.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: When we were removed from power, there were no political parties. There was a movement and the people who led it are ba Sejani, ba Muntanga and so on. They led the movement to get rid of those of us who were in UNIP. Yes, that man (pointing at Mr Muntanga).

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: However, nowadays when one reads the language being used in newspapers, you would think that there is chaos in the country. It is true that we have various problems such as starvation and poverty, but these cannot be overcome through the miracle of one person. As hon. Minister for Southern Province, Hon. Muntanga and Hon. Major Chizhyuka can agree with me that there is a lot of food in Chikankata and Siachitema areas. One cannot drive through three villages without filling up five lorries. So there is a lot of money in some people’s pocket, but there are still extremely poor people. Therefore, it is natural for some people to “swim” in money while others suffer. 

We should not behave as if Zambia is dying tomorrow. If leaders of the Opposition get overexcited and become too fanatical, the people will think they have nothing to offer. If they are able to offer something, which I know they do, the people will respect them. Therefore, we should not use language that is sarcastic because despite being an hon. Minister today, tomorrow I might not be and people would question my utterances.  

Mr Speaker, when I was an hon. Minister under President Kaunda, I did not throw my weight around and that is why I am still acceptable. I suppose that is why I am also marketable and I have been used by successive Governments because they want stability and they love me.  I, therefore, urge hon. Members to be credible and talk on points. I also would like to apprise even the most enthusiastic Members that when they debate, we agree with some of the things which they say except we cannot go over to the left.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: They should not squander their chances by advising us to a point where even their sympathisers say they are hopeless.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: They should not scatter their debate. They should organise their debates in a proper manner and then the Government will listen. It is alright for them to tell me their fantasies, but we are a listening Government. Governments are not built on fantasies and dreams, but on solid principles.

Mr Speaker, the late Humphrey Mulemba once stood in the Eastern Province, but I am not sure of the constituency. Dingiswayo Banda also stood somewhere in the Northern Province. Why should some people, this time around, say that they deserve to stand in certain provinces because they belong to particular groups? Those are dangerous politics which should not be entertained.

Interruptions

Mr Munkombwe: Any hon. Member of the Opposition who entertains such politics is lost. Hon. Mwaanga, popularly known as VJ, once stood in Luanshya and Sikalumba was detained in Namwala. I also recall Samson Mukando being tied to a tree in Kabompo.  Why are these juvenile politicians talking about tribalism?

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Now a Namwanga cannot vote for a Bemba. How many here are Bembas? Such politics are dangerous and we are moving this country towards problems we have never known. We have never experienced a civil war. We are, now, applying for a civil war so that a Tonga can fight an Ila. In the MMD, there is no tribalism. We will accept anybody from any part of the country. 

Mr Speaker, as my time has run out, I would like to conclude by saying that preaching of hatred begets hatred. We should preach love for one another. Why should I hate Hon. Sejani or Hon. Muntanga? We might belong to different parties and here pretend like we are not hearing, but when we go out, we will be whispering to each other.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: It is natural. So please, hatred and tribalism should not be entertained. Now people are not even allowed to contest elections in districts where they do not come from. That is horrible!

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: So, that is my plea to this House. I will continue, even when I will be on a wheelchair, to talk and open my mouth and I think the system will continue to use me usefully.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me this opportunity to add my voice to the President’s Speech which was presented in this august House during the official opening of Parliament. Before I give my views and opinion on the speech, I would like to join my score of friends who have paid their tribute to the deceased hon. Members of Parliament who were with us in the last sitting. 

Mr Speaker, without wasting much time, I would like to say that the President’s Speech was inspiring and gave us hope. The speech is a reflection and an indication of the path we should take together as a nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda: Zambia, being what it is, was not supposed to be a poor nation. The country is a land of abundance, but we, the leaders, cannot implement the policies of the Government.

Mr Speaker …

Mr Speaker: Order! May you angle the microphone towards yourself?

Mr Nyirenda changed the angle of his microphone.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, the reason why we have problems in implementing is because our leaders are not selfless, committed and devoted to the policies and directions which the President is giving us. It is, therefore, important for hon. Members of this House and the public, in particular, to join the President fighting the graft which is there. Corruption is not for one person. Nearly every human being is corrupt in one way or the other.

Hon. PF Members: Aah!

Mrs Phiri: Not me!

Mr Nyirenda: In one way or the other.

Interruptions

{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: Order! Respect other debater’s options. May he continue.

Mr Nyirenda: It is important for the Government leaders to be prepared to listen to the people’s cry and implement whatever is supposed to be done. Of course, it is not all that easy to inspire, motivate and give people hope, but they should be selfless, committed, devoted and adhere to the problems facing the nation. You do not only criticise for the sake of criticising, but it is important that we implement and educate our people on the policies our leaders are giving us.

In fact, all Presidents have made very beautiful speeches in this august House, but the problem has been with us for not implementing them because we think all speeches are hollow or recycled, which is a wrong notion. What we are here for is to add or subtract and, if possible, adjust what the President says. It is, therefore, imperative that every hon. Member in this House expresses his views and amends or adds where it is necessary rather than just name-calling.

Mr Speaker, alternatives are invertible in every society. As we are here, we can say something about the Government that, at least, they are working, but they will not just do it on the spot. In the course of the debate, they will sit down and reflect on what has been on the Floor of the House.

Mr Speaker, I will not go further on this issue, but would like to go into details regarding what others have expressed ably and tightly.

Commerce Trade and Industry

Mr Speaker, this ministry is regarded as Zambia’s principle Government body responsible for administering trade and industry policies in the country. The ministry has brought hope and confidence in the people who are working with them. It is ideal that these policies are adhered to accordingly, hence our country’s progress is always progressing because we are not contributing effectively to the development of this nation.

It is therefore, better for the Government-of-the-day to listen and implement what the stakeholders are saying. Our country is blessed with a lot of minerals, but these minerals are being misused because of improper management from our leadership on the ground.

Agriculture

Mr Speaker, I will, also, join my colleagues who are supporting the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). I hope the Government can even do better than this. Farmers are somehow disappointed with the Food Reserve Agency for not paying them in good time. For instance, this year’s Fertiliser Support Programme has done very well in that they have delivered fertiliser in the respective areas in time, in the meantime, FRA, to date, has not paid people their money. This will result into the delay of buying fertiliser and have an effect on the production at the end of the day.

As regards the point of export of maize grain, I do not find it ideal that we should export our maize because the bumper harvest that we are trying to have is not there. The bumper harvest we hear about is as a result of poor storage of the maize which results into having mealie meal shortages as well as high prices of our mugaiwa towards the end. Therefore, these unnecessary shortages are created by we, the leaders in this House, because we have not given proper awareness in terms of storing the grain.

Livestock and Fisheries

Mr Speaker, we thank the President for establishing this ministry and we are certain that the ministry will …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order. The House will listen.

Mr Nyirenda: … consider having livestock and fisheries throughout the country and not in the selective areas such as Luapula and Southern provinces.

For your own information, I can say that the Copperbelt is, now, turning into a milk belt because we have got more animals than ever before such that, through this, we can have a better alternative to our copper.

Mr Speaker, it is not only the Southern Province which is entitled to the livestock. We appreciate the Government’s move to create the animal breeding centres which are going to enable the country to produce more stocks of good quality. I do appreciate that Kamfinsa, for the first time, has a lot of animals, more than 500 in the area, and that starvation will not be there if we continue living this way.

Having said this, let me not exclude the inspectors or agricultural extension officers.They should, also, be given enough transport to go round and sensitise people on how to plant the seedlings.

Education

Mr Speaker, the people of Kamfinsa are very happy with what the Government is doing to bring schools into their areas. Nearly every ward in my area has more than two basic schools. Currently, the Government is building a high school in Kamfinsa and twenty modern houses for the schools teachers.

Beside this, there are two more schools under construction. With this education system going on in the Ministry of Education, we shall be able to reach the 2015 target of our Millennium Development Goals.

Mr Speaker, we should, also, consider the plight of teachers in our area. It is not just a matter of building schools while teachers are not being paid handsomely. Teachers play an important factor in the development of the nation, not only in Zambia, but the world over. We cannot have doctors, professors or engineers if we do not have teachers. On the same issue of teachers, we should not consider a teacher to be in the lowest class because a Sub A teacher is more vital, owing to the fact that he is the one who instills knowledge and wisdom into the little ones. Therefore, I am asking the Government to consider the living conditions of our teachers and review the existing allowances.

Health

Lastly on health, we do appreciate the efforts by the Government in trying to build hospitals nearly in every 5 to 10 metres. These hospitals are a sign or indications that the Government is caring for its people. We have seen that almost every district has a hospital, but we should not forget about the mother’s shelters and health centres in some areas. In some areas, which are very far, there are no clinics, health centres or mobile clinics. Please, let us introduce mobile clinics so that the health personnel can be going there once or twice a week to treat patients. This point is very vital in areas such as Kamfinsa where I stay. There are some areas which are about 20 or 30 kilometres from Mwekera or Kamfinsa which do not have clinics. I would urge the Government to consider putting up health centres in such areas.

With these few remarks, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I want to make some comments on His Excellency the President’s Address delivered to the House on 18th September, 2009.

Mr Speaker, there are two issues which, I think, have already been dealt with, but let me and add some details. The first issue is that of feeder roads. We have the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). We are told in the speech that the Government will increase the funding to this next year. I think, this is a welcome move because, currently, this programme is chaotic. As the Government is planning to increase funding for RRU next year, let me point out a few things that should be looked into.

The first issue is that each district was given five units. Out of these units, only one unit has a grader that is used everyday. The other four units are parked at the district centres. These five units are to be used day in and day out because they were supposed to handle spot improvement. With only the grader being used everyday, the result is that some sections are not worked on properly. I would like the Government, next year, to use all the five units because we can improve the roads if this is done. 

I interviewed one of the operators when the grader was in my constituency. He told me that he was only given 100 litres of diesel, maybe, twice a week when he is supposed to get 200 litres everyday. With 100 litres, he can only use the grader in the morning and he parks it in the afternoon. The operator is not working on the drains because the 100 litres of diesel he is given is inadequate. There are no side drains. We should know that the number one enemy for a road is water. Despite all the effort made, come November, all the soil that was put on the road will be washed away because the soil put by the grader on the road is supposed to be watered and compacted. I suggest that the Government estimates how much diesel all the five units require since the 100 litres given is not enough.

The other issue is that in the past, a grader could grade 80 kilometres a day and that is the standard distance, but with RRU nowadays, the operator can only grade 2 kilometres because of lack of diesel. When a grader breaks down, the mechanic is not in the district. The mechanic has to come all the way from the provincial centre, wasting about two days. I suggest that there is a mechanic in every district centre so that when there is a breakdown, he attends to the equipment immediately. All in all, I am saying, let the Government increase the funding and I suggest that for the five equipment that are in each district, we need about 1,000 litres a day for the road equipment to be utilised. The grader uses it everyday but the other equipment, I think, maybe, twice a week when there are very bad spots. The Government should have in mind that we need, at least, 1,000 litres a day if we are to use all the five units.

Let me come to the second point. Though it was covered yesterday, let me fill the gaps. This is the Mongu/Kalabo Road. I would like the Government to make it clear to the Zambians what is happening to this project. Let the Government clear the air. The project started on 6th August, 2002 and it was meant for thirty months. Therefore, it should have ended on 4th February, 2006. We got a loan and there were two phases. Phase I was gravelling at a cost of US$25 million.  Phase II was tarring and was supposed to cost US$13 million, but as far as we know, Phase I was done at a cost of US$25 million and we know the result. Most of the road was washed away.

Interruption

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mooya: We want to know what is happening. Bridges were ordered and sent to Mongu for erection. I remember reading about this last year, that the bids were submitted. There were two contractors who submitted the bids. One bid was US$1.2 trillion and the other was US$600 billion, but we do not know what is happening because, currently, there is talk of redesigning the bridge, and yet the bailey bridges were imported and they are in Mongu. What is happening? We want a clear explanation.

The third point, Mr Speaker, is on the Zimba/Livingstone Road. I have driven on that road four times and it is very surprising that the deviation is that long. It is more than 30 kilometres. The standard deviation is five kilometres, but to drive 30 kilometres on a dirt road is not enjoyable at all. I ask the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to, please, follow the standards. The standard deviation is five kilometres and not six times longer, to avoid accidents.

Finally, I got a little confused with the second paragraph of page 59 of the President’s Speech where the President talks about the one per cent of the population. It is stated that the one per cent works out to 170, 000. One hundred and seventy is one per cent of a population of 17 million. I thought the population of Zambia was 12 million. Therefore, the figure should have read 120, 000 and not 170, 000. This is a mistake in a speech read by the President and the mistake should be corrected.

Mr Speaker, let me end here.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): I thank you Mr Speaker. 

I will be brief in contributing to the motion. May I start by making a passionate appeal on the directive that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing should revoke the grain levy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I make this passionate appeal fully realising that I represent a rural constituency. Over and above that, my constituency is in the Eastern Province of this country, whose economy is dependent on agriculture. 

Mr Speaker, in addition, it can hardly be denied that all the district councils in the Eastern Province survive on income from the grain levy. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda:  Therefore, for this Government to deny councils this source of revenue is, in my view, taking one hundred steps backwards. I appeal to this Government to take a positive look at this. 
Mr Speaker, to illustrate my point, may I just give some statistics for about five district councils in the Eastern Province. 

I will start with Chipata District. The district earns K500 million per year from levying tobacco. Cotton brings in K350 million per year, while maize brings in K280 million per year. This means that Chipata earns more than K1.1 billion from this levy. Is the Government in order to deny this district council this revenue?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  What measures are put in place to fill the gap because whether you like it or not, there will be a gap? 

Mr Speaker, as if that is not enough, let me give figures for Lundazi District. The District earns K350 million per year from levying tobacco sales. Cotton earns the council K350 million per year. From maize, the council earns 200 million, bringing the total earnings to K850 million. The question is, has this Government put measures in place to ensure that this gap which we are deliberately creating will be filled?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  I know, as a matter of fact, that the Government gives grants to district councils. However, it is equally a fact that the release of these grants is in staggered installments to an extent that by the time the money is released, it is virtually useless. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  My appeal is that you give this move a second thought. I know the President does not act on his own but on advice.  I appeal to the people who advise the President to have a heart for the rural district councils. Why do you want to kill the district councils which are trying to survive?

Mrs Masebo: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  Mr Speaker, Chadiza District Council earns K200 million from tobacco. Cotton brings in K150 million per annum, while maize brings K50 million, meaning that the Chadiza District Council earns K400 million, annually, from these levies. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: In Petauke, the district council, brings in K20 million per year from tobacco. Cotton brings in K350 million per year, while maize brings in K120 million, bringing the total earnings from the levies, which you intend to abolish, to K490 million. 

Mr Speaker, finally, let me talk about the Katete District Council. This is not about the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). It is about the survival of the rural people. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Sir, the Katete District Council earns K12 million from tobacco levies, K420 million from cotton and K80 million from maize per annum. This translates into a total of K520 million per annum.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I have deliberately left out the figures for Nyimba, Mambwe and Chama because I think I have made a sufficient case which warrants favourable consideration from this Government which is, seemingly, a listening people’s Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: So much about the levies. Let me now move to the issue of land. I speak with a heavy heart because it appears this Government has lost direction somewhere along the line. Those who are economists know the factors of production and one of the factors is land. That is very basic. 

Mr Speaker, as Zambians, we do not have much in terms of capital, but we have land. However, I get concerned with this attitude of generously giving money to foreigners.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: As if that is not enough, there is this tendency of granting certain companies large parcels of land …

Hon. Member: For free!

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: … which they sub-divide and sell only a few months after. In so doing, they deny the Zambians the opportunity to own land. I have in mind the Baobab Land. The Lusaka City Council (LCC) advertised that land and invited Zambians to apply for pieces of land. What happened? The LCC was stopped. The Government got that land and gave it to a private company.

Hon. Member: Legacy!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  I do not know if that is the name. However, that company is now sub-dividing pieces of land and selling it at exorbitant prices which cannot be afforded by Zambians.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Where is the logic in this? Are you not allowing people to speculate in land? Why can you not use the Land Acquisition Act because this is clear evidence of people taking advantage of your policies? Why do you not use the Land Acquisition Act to acquire this land in public interest because the Zambians need this land? You cannot give land to one company which starts to speculate a few months after by sub-dividing and selling at an exorbitant price. What is it that this company has done to this Government to warrant this favour? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Corruption!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: We have the laws in place. This land must be repossessed.

Hon. Member: That is a lawyer speaking.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  Repossess this land so that it reverts to the Government which can, in turn, offer it to Zambians. Why are you denying Zambians the opportunity to own land in their own country?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  Please, you are a listening Government and I appeal to you to have the interest of Zambians at heart. For once, think of Zambians. You and I can afford, but the rest of the people we represent cannot. Whose interest are we serving?

Mr Speaker, I now move to the road infrastructure sector. I am mindful that the Government is spending money on this sector. That is a job well done. On behalf of people of Eastern Province, in particular, the people of Lundazi who travel on the Lundazi/Chipata Road, I would like to mention that this road is receiving some attention.  Only 100 kilometres will be tarred, thus leaving 80 kilometres untarred. I would like to remind the Government that this road has been left in a neglected condition for a long time. The people of Lundazi would want an assurance from this Government that the road will be worked on. What is going to happen to the 80 kilometres because promise after promise has been made in this House that tenders will be invited and we have seen no movement at all. I appeal to you to give attention to this road. 

Sir, there is also the Upper Road. My friends talk about the Bottom Road and I always talk of the Upper Road. The Upper Road is the road which starts from Lundazi and takes you through to Nakonde. This road is very important. If you had your priorities right, work on this road because in so doing, you will be opening up all that land to development. Coming to the Bottom Road, my colleagues have made a very good case for the development of that road. I am equally making a good case to this Government to consider opening up the Upper Road because we need it. It will connect Zambia and other countries in the Great Lakes Region. 

Sir, there are also a few other roads which need attention. There is a road from Lundazi to Chama. I know that currently, it is in a reasonable condition, but our plea is that consideration be given to upgrade this road to tarmac standards. This is a road that connects Lundazi and Chama. My appeal is that this road be tarred. This road can easily be tarred because it is in good condition. Chama can be accessed through two roads. There is one road which passes through my constituency and the other road which starts from my constituency and ends up in Chama South Constituency. The road which passes through Chikwa in Chama South Constituency is in a deplorable condition. It has been in that state for a long time. My appeal to this hard working Government and I know it listens as you can see from the way its hon. Ministers are boldly talking.

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: This road deserves your attention. We shall appreciate if attention is given to this project as you have done to the other projects.

Finally, let me now talk about the proliferation of banks in this country. Yes, our friends are doing a good job in attracting foreign investors into the country. However, a word of caution is that please, examine the quality of some of the investors who are coming into the banking sector in this country. Some of the banks that have been established in this country have a very bad record. Please, do not expose the Zambians to some of these banks. In appealing to you, as a responsible Government, please, make sure that the regulatory mechanism is put in tiptop condition because by the time you wake up, it will be too late and the people’s money will be gone since we are used to having foreigners reap us off. 

 Hon. Opposition Member: Where they did not even sow.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: When Zambians make money, you want to bring them down and when it is foreigners making money, even though they are making it wrongly and illegally, you always give them a pat on their backs. Please, keep your eyes open.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I wish to thank you.

Hon. Members: Quality!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to debate on the Presidential Speech. I will be very brief since most of the concerns have been debated by other hon. Members of Parliament. 

Mr Speaker, I want to go straight to issues to do with skills development. I think this Government has not done much in this area. The speech by the President was given at a time when a lot of our youths are not employed. I think there is need to give Zambians skills that are going to help this country. How do we prove that the skills that we are giving to our youths cannot much with the times that we are living in? Most of the hon. Members of Parliament have complained that we have a lot of Chinese people in our country. In short, I may say that we have a lot of foreigners in this country. Even with the situation being the way it is, why are we failing to employ the Zambians? It is because the skills that they have cannot much with the requirements of this nation. 

Sir, you would be shocked if you went to the labour and immigration offices at the number of foreigners trying to get permits on a daily basis to work and stay in Zambia. This is any indication that our youths do not have relevant skills to assist in the development of this nation. We have been told that there are oil exploration projects in North-Western Province and Eastern Province. What have we done to ensure that our youths are equipped to take up such challenging positions in those areas? You will discover that at the end of the day, we will still go outside this nation looking for people to come and work for us and I do not think that this is going to help us.

Sir, I also want to disagree with the statement that the President gave on the satellite depots in our country. He said that all the districts were given more satellite depots compared to last year. The President was misled by whoever gave him this information.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: I do not think Kalomo is one of those districts that benefited from the increase in the number of the satellite depots. Dundumwezi in particular, which falls under Kalomo has actually had a reduction in the number of satellite depots which it has. I can give you an example. Last year, we had Munyike Satellite Depot and this year, it was not opened. We also had Kasukwe Satelite Depot and this year, it was not opened. Therefore, there is no way someone can stand up and say that the number of satellite depots has tripled. This is not true. Unless this only happened in other districts. 

Mr Speaker, not increasing the amount of fertilizer given per province is not a very good idea. I think we are now actually increasing the poverty levels. When you look at the quantity of fertiliser, it still remains the same, but who said that Zambians have stopped increasing their production levels? By next year, our population will not be the same. There is need to increase the quantities of fertiliser so that we can carter for the growing population. 
              
Break from 18.15 to 18.30
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, before the break, I was just about to say that I do not agree with the statement by the President that the HIV prevalence rate had reduced from 16 per cent to 14 per cent. What I see is the fact that people are dying and the numbers are not being captured. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Sing’ombe: Therefore, there is no way we can say that the rate has reduced. People are simply dying.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Health to assist us HIV/AIDS treatment. For instance, in Dundumwezi, I do not have any anti-retroviral treatment centre. These statistics are, therefore, wrong.  

Mr Speaker, lastly, …

Mr Munaile: Wapwisha apapene?

Mr Sing’ombe:  I would like to join other hon. Members of Parliament who are asking the Government to retain the grain levy. I cannot use better words than those of Hon. Masebo and Hon. Muntanga. It is not a good idea to simply take away grain levy without substituting it with something else. When the President was talking about removing the grain levy, I thought it would be substituted with something else to at least assist the local authorities for their continued survival. 

Mr Speaker, now I tend to even start doubting the Government’s capabilities. I am not sure whether it is serious about decentralisation. I thought that at this point, the Government would start looking at areas in which our local authorities would have some sort of revenue collection. However, when you start removing such levies, it sends my mind into space.  

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Independent Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. 

I want to start my contribution by talking about the Zimba/Livingstone Road. I thank the Government for having started the works on the road …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: …after I kept complaining about its state for seven years. However, the pace is very slow. 

When I spoke to the people from the Chinese company who are working on the road, they said they should have finished working on the road by October this year. However, we are now going towards the end of September and only five kilometers of the road has been tarred. I would like to appeal to the Government to open the tarred part of the road so that we reduce on the deviations that the people who use that road have to make as Hon. Mooya said. The other group of workers has also started the works from Livingstone. This means that people will have to deviate from the main road from Zimba to Livingstone which is seventy-seven kilometers. This is not good. Can we, therefore, open up the Zimba/Simwami Road because I know that, that road has already been tarred.I just do not know why it is not open. I want to appeal to the Government to ensure that works are speeded up.

  They are complaining that they are not working very fast because of non-payments. They are also given the money when they submit a certificate of a potion for them to continue with the works. Sometimes, you would find that they would give three to four certificates before they are paid. Can this Government give them the money so that they can finish? Initially, they wanted to finish by October. Therefore, let them finish by December, 2009.

Mr Speaker, I expected to hear something about the Kazungulu/Kasane Bridge in the President’s Speech, but that was not mentioned. Yet, that is a very important economic facility for Zambia. When that bridge and the rail line are done, it is going to be very important for Zambia, but there was no mention of it. Does it mean that the project has stalled or we are still working on the Kazungula/Kasani Bridge?

Mr Speaker, Katombola Constituency, which is in Kazungulu District, has 5,000 farmers. Last yea, 3,000 farmers were supported. This year, 1,500 are being supported. Imagine! As Hon. Chifumu Banda, SC has said, it means that that we are going a hundred paces backwards. Instead of supporting all the 5,000, we are now supportingonly1,500.

Mr Speaker, I hear that some places in this country have received fertilizer and yet, this is not the case in Katombola Constituency. Now, because of that, people are buying fertiliser, which people are making, at Maramba Market. They are not buying it anywhere else. People are busy now making fertiliser in their back yards. This fertiliser is not good, but people are buying it because it is cheap and it going at K150,000 per 50 kilogram bag. Yet, people are buying without knowing that that fertiliser is not good. Can the ministry do something about this? Can you send people to Maramba to go and check on this fertiliser? Let us have some people arrested. Maybe, they will stop that.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the famous grain levy. Last year, my council made K77 million from the grain levy. We are not adding other crops. This year, we were expecting to raise K54 million. There are reasons why we are unable to reach K77 million.

Mr Speaker, we have banned the grain levy, yet there are other levies that are levied by councils, not only Kazungula Council, but other councils in the country. Now, imagine that the fish traders are going to come to the Government and say well, since you have banned the grain levy, can you ban the fish levy also? The Government will have no choice but to ban it.

Sir, with timber, these traders are also going to come and say, “Sorry, we are also not ready to pay the levy because you have banned the levy for the other traders”. What do you think will happen to councils? Yet, these grain traders are the ones that are damaging our roads because their trucks are big and carry heavy loads. These are the people whose levy has been banned. Where are we going? I want to plead, like other hon. Members, to bring back the grain levy and ensure that no other traders is going to come to you to ask for the favour to ban their levy. Do not set this precedence because once you do that, you will have no reason to refuse to ban the levies for the other traders unless decentralisation takes place and money comes from this House and goes straight to the councils. Can you tell us that if that is not the case because up to now, even the grants that you are supposed to give us is not yet made available. If you give them to us, you are not giving them any time than now. Please, a lot of people have said that you are a listening Government. That is one thing, but doing is another.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: I do not want you to be a listening Government, but a doing Government.

Mr Muyanda: Performing Government!

Mrs Musokotwane:  If you are a performing Government, then this levy is going to be re-introduced. Do not listen. You should act.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute on the Presidential Speech presented by His Excellency the President.

Sir, the mover of the Motion mentioned that he was inspired by the speech given by His Excellency the President. However, I will explain and give reasons why I am not inspired by this speech.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Beene!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, this is the fourth Presidential Speech I have witnessed being delivered in this august House and I believe it is supposed to translate into a product on the ground in terms of benefits, particularly to the people of Itezhi-tezhi who I represent.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Sir, all the four Presidential Speeches mentioned something on energy and that this country has a shortage of energy-generated power. However, for some time now, this Government has come to this august House and announced that to improve on power, it will embark on constructing power stations in the country. All the four speeches also mentioned that the Government would construct a power station in Itezhi-tezhi. Nevertheless, three years have passed now, but we only see people drilling rocks. People are still waiting for this project to take off. Sir, this is the reason I have not been inspired by this speech. I can foresee that nothing is going to be transmitted to the people of Itezhi-tezhi in terms of such projects.

Mr Speaker, Itezhi-tezhi Dam was constructed in 1978 and by now technology has changed. I do not know what the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development is doing to that effect. Could Government ensure that this project is undertaken? It does not help to make speeches about things that never take off. The people of Itezhi-tezhi are extremely disappointed.

Mr Speaker, Itezhi-tezhi’s close district is Namwala. To link up the two districts to the province, there is Kafue River in between and people use a pontoon to get there. However, we still have a pontoon which is more than forty years old, posing a danger to the people of Itezhi-tezhi and Namwala.

Interjections

Mr Beene: A pontoon.

Laughter

Mr Beene: This speech did not take these issues on board. What have the people in Itezhi-tezhi and Namwala done for this Government not to apportion the wealth of this country which they are entitled to, to them?

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the Government, which claims to be a listening Government, through the Ministry of Works and Supply, to listen to me for once and construct a bridge in Itezhi-tezhi

The President, in his speech, mentioned that he will manage the global crisis. I think before we start praising ourselves, it is important to ensure that we put measures in place for the people who lost employment on the Copperbelt because of this crisis.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: We need to know how many Zambians lost businesses during the crisis and what measures we are supposed to take in order to correct the situation. I think that is critical.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: The Government should not just praise itself by saying it has managed the global crisis properly. We still have a lot of work to do to ensure that we put mitigating measures for this situation which this crisis left. This would be helpful to all Zambians. Mr Speaker, my criticism is genuine and it is for the benefit of this country.

Mr Mooya: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, in his speech, he also talked about roads and to get to Itezhi-tezhi, it is 360 kilometres from Lusaka. This road was tarred in 1978.

   We have lost more than one hundred lives and property because the road has turned into a bush path. You clash with wild animals because in the pack and you do not see where you are going. The Ministry of Energy and Water Development is now saying it is going to take a power station where there is a bush. This was a tarred road and we do not know what the problem to repair it is.

Mr Speaker, the Government received equipment from China, particularly for the Southern Province, but the graders have not yet reached my constituency. Some have broken down and someone was ringing me from Livingstone saying they have a cheque of K19 million to be paid to the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) for grading the roads in Itezhi Tezhi. Is there any seriousness in this issue where K19 million is spent on diesel? This was done by the provincial administration and it is a shame. What can K19 million do in grading a road which is more than 100 km? That is why, for me, the Speech by His Excellency the President is not inspiring. Let us put the House in order because there is no way a listening and caring Government can be budgeting to resurface a road which was once tarred with soil. What kind of engineering is that? In my view that is a total crisis. I urge this Government to be sincere because even if we are in Opposition, there should not be double standards in terms of the distribution of resources of the country. We are all entitled to the resources of this country and we contribute to it and it is important that it is fairly distributed to all of us.

Mr Speaker, I do not want to talk about 2011. If people are going to welcome this Government in Itezhi Tezhi, take development there because the people there have suffered.

 On agriculture, I want to borrow the words of Hon. Mrs Musokotwane and Hon. Chifumu Banda as my very own that the issue of the grain tax should be given back to the councils otherwise these councils will be crippled. That is the way forward.

Mr Speaker, I now want to talk about the water resources. The President talked about reviewing the water policy. Itezhi Tezhi has one of the biggest fresh water bodies, but the people there are at risk of being killed by crocodiles because the piped water has not expanded since the construction of the Itezhi Tezhi Dam. I, therefore, urge the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the listening Government to help the people of Itezhi Tezhi to drink fresh water. I know hon. Daka is listening and so he will lobby for me.

Mr Speaker, Itezhi Tezhi has a lot of resources and if hon. Members look on the map, they see that it encompasses the biggest part of the Kafue National Park. The people of Itezhi Tezhi are asking the Government to take investment there because we have wild animals, fresh water and undisturbed environment.

Mr Speaker, with regards to health. For the people in Tezhi Tezhi to get proper medical assistance, they have to travel long distances and so I am asking the hon. Minister of Health to consider putting up good infrastructure to cater for a theatre so that we also have facilities which are similar to those in Lusaka.

Hon. Members: Mobile!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I, also, just want to talk about education. Yes, the Government has been sending teachers to the rural areas, but these teachers are suffering because they have no accommodation. They have been posting them without considering the houses to accommodate them. Please, can the Government ensure that these teachers who are being posted to the rural areas have houses afforded to them. This also draws me to the issue of hardship allowance. I do not know why it has become a problem when it will go a long way in helping these people.

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to talk about the Kalomo/Dundumwezi/Itezhi-tezhi Road.

UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, people went there to do some feasibility studies, but it is now three years and nothing is happening. I think we should try by all means to translate what we say in this august House into beneficial products for the Zambian people.

UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, finally, let me talk about the Constituency Development Funding (CDF).

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning cannot just keep quiet over this issue. We want to know what is happening with the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Beene: We are now debating the policy of the new National Budget, but where is the money? This money was approved in this august House, but it has not been given to us till date. When are we going to utilise this money?

UPND Member: Nyema!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, can we have the CDF released. We need the money so that we can pay for fuel, grading of the roads and use it to do other things.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, please, the hon. Minister should not pretend. He should tell us where the money is.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: With these few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chishya (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this chance to express my opinion of thanks to the Presidential Speech. The previous debaters have based their debates on few whims such as poverty in leadership. Even one debater referred to this Government as being intolerant to criticism. This is very unfortunate ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: … because it is leaders in some political parties who cannot even tolerate their members who obey the law.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, if we were to use a theme, I would have put mine as ‘Thinking Capacity that is Incompatible with Mental Fecundity’.

Laughter 

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, after listening to the words of wisdom from other debaters such as the hon. Minister of Southern Province and Hon. Chimbaka of Bahati, I would, also, like to express my thanks to the Presidential Speech. I am going to do this as a representative of the people of Pambashe.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: At the same, I will, also, express my views as an affiliate of the University of Zambia, particularly the school of natural sciences.

Mr Speaker, since independence, it is only during this President’s Speech that Pambashe was thought of with regard to bringing power to the area. I am referring to the development of the Kalungwishi Power Plant which has never been talked about before.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: What we understand is that once an area has electricity, its economy is opened up. We have been talking about Luena Sugar, which has not taken off because there has not been power in the area. The power which is there is not enough for Luapula and Kawambwa. Now, if the Kalungwishi Electric Power Station is developed, the sky will be the limit.

Mr Speaker, this speech is not only going to be taken to my constituency office. I am going to make copies and give it to every electorate in the constituency …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: … because this is a move in the right direction, though not good enough. We are still waiting for the best from this Government.

Mr Speaker, I now come to tertiary education with particular reference to the University of Zambia. Before I say more on this point, I would like to point out that it has been said on the Floor of this House that the university library lacks books. This statement is unfortunate. The person who said this does not understand what is meant by a university library. A university library is an institution which provides facilities to university activities. It is not only in that building, which people, see that books are found. Each school has specialised libraries. For example, my department, the Chemistry Department, has more books than required in the library of the department. There are specialised books for research, lectures and whatever one wants to do. The main library is just for general reference. At the same time, every year, the university library asks departments to request for new books if they need them. Even if we do not know of any books being published, we can still provide titles and those books are bought. We are not short of books at the university.

Hon. Government Members: Tell Muyanda.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, the University of Zambia, when it was established, had two main objectives at the time. The first one was to accelerate the production of professional cadres to replace the colonial personnel. 

  The second objective was to produce the technical and medical personnel who co-ordinate the socio-economical and technological development programme in Zambia. The first object has long been achieved.

The gains in the second objective have been reduced by the increase in population that is creating demand pressure on places in the university. Hence, when I read this speech and heard the President pronounce the transformation of some of the colleges into university colleges, my heart went thumping because of joy.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: Because they would relieve pressure on this university. At the same time, the Government has liberalised the area of the delivery of education. It has opened up and other players have come into this sector. Again, it is this speech which has correctly pronounced and warned us to be careful so that the education standards are not brought down. However, we have seen that some people are even able to get a degree without entering an auditorium.

Mr Muntanga: Waali mulimbihi!

Laughter

Dr Chishya: Particularly …

Interruptions

Dr Chishya: … when people were talking about degrees at the National Constitutional Conference (NCC), we hear that even among us, some people are given some certificates or degrees which they cannot even pronounce.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: It was Mulongoti.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, the President in his speech on page 54 has come out quite clearly to warn us on the creation of the institution which shall be responsible for the national qualification and accreditation. This will be able to see those dubious degrees which people are getting. As a result of dubious qualifications, in some departments, be it in private or the public sector, the people holding those positions are not supposed to be there, and where they get papers nobody knows. Therefore, I would like to ask this Government, please, not to allow other people to use other methods to produce those papers to show that they are qualified.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mulongoti.

Dr Chishya: The investment which you have already made in this country and the schools you are building will have meaning if you protect the essence of education. Without that, this nation is falling apart.

Mr Speaker, if there are some people who think that this speech is hollow, I think they need a minute to examine themselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

   There are many areas of development that have been pronounced and that can take this country forward and not backwards. I do not see anything in this speech which can really take this country backwards.

Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1906 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 24th September, 2009.