DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 1st October, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT

PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS PROGRAMME PHASE THREE (PRP III) WORKSHOP

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, as part of the ongoing capacity building activities for members  under the Parliamentary Reforms Programme Phase Three (PRP III), I wish to inform the House that I have approved a training workshop for all Members of Parliament to be held in the Auditorium on Monday, 5th October, 2009. The training commences at 0830 hours prompt.

The objective of the training is to introduce hon. Members to the budget analysis guidelines that have been produced to assist hon. Members of Parliament analyse the budget and contribute effectively to the process of approving the budget.

All hon. Members must attend the workshop.

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME

The Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to deliver this statement on a topical subject of ‘Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) 2009/2010.’ This programme was initially known as the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP).

Mr Speaker, as the House might be aware, the FISP implementation modalities were a source of serious concern by the hon. Members of this House, agricultural stakeholders, civil society organisations and others. His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda having listened to these concerns appointed a committee of Cabinet Ministers under my Chairmanship to critically examine the complaints and to recommend the way forward. The House may be interested to note that prior to the appointment of the above committee, the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives also concerned with the negative reports arising from the implementation of the programme, had constituted a team from both the public and private sector and agricultural practitioners to travel to Kenya, Tanzania and Malawi, in order to find out how the subsidised input distribution programmes were implemented in those countries.

Mr Speaker, let me perhaps share with the House that in June 2006, there was a heads of State and government’s special summit in Abuja, Nigeria, dubbed the African Fertiliser Summit (AFS). The Abuja 2006 AFS resolved that Member states should grant targeted subsidies in favour of the agricultural sector. The House may note that both the Millennium Villages’ programme guided by the economist Geoffrey Sacks and the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA) Chaired by former United Nations Secretary general Kofi Anan, have in recent years called for the governments to boost fertiliser use in Africa with subsidies if necessary. At this summit, it was observed that farmers in Sub-Sahara Africa use about thirteen kg of fertiliser nutrients per hectare of arable land compared with the developed country average of about 94 kg per hectare.

One notes that the global food crisis of 2007/8 has highlighted the importance of boosting agricultural production and increased fertiliser usage in addition to improved technologies, use of hybrid seeds according to the agro-ecological area and increased use of fertilisers will lead to increased crop yields in the continent.

Mr Speaker, the then FSP now which is now FISP was initiated in 2002/3 season and for seven years, this programme has been operating with varied impact on household food security and reduction of poverty. There is no doubt that the FISP is a very good programme because it is meant to tackle rural poverty, increase rural household incomes and ensure household food security.

Mr Speaker, the current FISP review took into account the concerns raised by stakeholders and our own findings. Some of these concerns were: delays in input distribution, poor targeting of farmers/beneficiaries, limited impact on agricultural production and food security, poor monitoring of the programme, a situation which has made it difficult to clearly point out the programme’s achievements against its objectives and the long-term concerns about the FSP’s sustainability.

Mr Speaker, in this statement, I want to show that the FISP has grown since its inception in 2002/3 season at that time covering only 120,000 farmers progressing on to 200,000 farmers in 2008/09 and the current proposed 500,000 in 2009/2010. Since inception, the FSP, now FISP managed to distribute a total of 422,000 metric tonnes of fertilisers valued at K1,361.1 billion, covering a total of K1,505,000 hectares of small scale maize fields.

Mr Speaker, the above positive results, notwithstanding have seen a number of concerns as alluded to above especially in the areas of beneficiary targeting, impact on household and national food security, value for money, effect on private sector investment and participation in agricultural input supply markets, and the long-term sustainability given the ever increasing competition for national resources by various sectors.

Mr Speaker, in order to address some of the concerns raised by the stakeholders, a number of things will have to be done. With effect from 2009, the Fertiliser Support Programme, as alluded to, has been renamed the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). This intends to capture other inputs such as maize and rice seeds to be included during the 2010/2011 agricultural season. The training of farmers will be a major component in the FISP.

In addition, in order to improve the effectiveness of the programme, the programme with effect from the 2009/2010 agricultural season has reduced the input pack size from 8 x 50 kg bags of fertiliser and 20 kg maize seed provided in the previous years to 4 x 50kg bags of fertiliser and 10kg maize seed, enough for half a hectare. In order to diversify the input pack, the programme is working on multiplying rice seed to be included in the programme for those farmers in rice production areas with effect from the 2010/2011 agricultural season.

Mr Speaker, the reasons for reduction in the input pack size are twofold. Firstly, it is to encourage small holder farmers by improved management of a half hectare arising from early land preparation, use of hybrid seed, use of improved technologies and weed management, it is expected that small holder farmers will produce what now on average is being produced per one hectare. In this regard, we shall facilitate the small holder farmers to produce at least three to four metric tones of maize per half hectare; that is 60 to 80 x 50 kg bags. The House may note that on average, currently, a small holder farmer produces 1.7 metric tonnes which translates in 30 to 35 x 50kg bags per hectare.

Secondly, there will be an increase in the coverage of beneficiaries from a previous average of 16 or 25 per cent to well over 40 per cent i.e. increasing from 200,000 to 500,000 farmers out of an estimated 1.2 million beneficiaries.

Mr Speaker, with this programme in place which will cover 500,000 small holder farmers, we expect that small holder farmers will produce, weather permitting, between 1.5 to 2 million metric tones in the 2009/2010 farming season. The success of this obviously depends on many factors.

Firstly, the timely distribution of inputs. For the first time in many years in this country, the fertiliser was already stationed in the provinces and districts as early as August this year. The maize seed is likely to be at the district level by the end of the first week of October, 2009.

Secondly, the targeting of beneficiaries will be strengthened by using cooperatives and farmer organisations to critically work with camp agricultural committees that will reinforce the identification of farmers’ lists for onward transmission to the district agricultural committees.The farmers’ register will be a very important source of data for farmer identification and also for ensuring transparency in the selection process.

Mr Speaker, we have heard of concerns that the reduction in the pack size in fact will reduce production. As I have already pointed out, this is to the contrary. We are aware of farmers in some areas who have the capacity to increase on their production input. It is our expectation, therefore, that the cooperatives and farmer organisations can put resources together and complement the Government’s efforts. Fertiliser prices have now come down from an all record high in the last season. In some places the price ranged between K250,000 to K290,000 per 50kg bag and in some cases K300,000 per 50kg bag. These prices, however, may be different depending on transportation costs.

Mr Speaker, one further modality in the revised FISP is the creation of camp agricultural committees that have been constituted on the understanding that these are closer to the farmers. The individual small scale farmers will apply through their primary cooperative societies and other farmer organisations which will recommend them to camp agricultural committees. The camp agricultural committees will agree on the approved list of farmers to receive inputs within the primary cooperatives and farmer organisations based on the allocated input within their camps. The office bearers in camp agricultural committees shall be elected at camp level and no imposition of office bearers will be entertained from the district agricultural committees or the block extension officers.

Mr Speaker, these camp agricultural committees should include representatives from the traditional establishments in their area, church organisations and community based organizations, where these exist with a view to improve transparency in farmer selection and verification. Once the camp agricultural commitees have approved the selected beneficiaries, the list will be submitted to the district agricultural committees. The role of the district agricultural committee will now be limited to the following:

(a) receiving district input requirements from camps in liaison with block extension officers with the help of provincial agricultural coordinators;

(b) allocating inputs to camps;

(c) receiving and ratifying the proved beneficiaries from camp agricultural committees;

(d) publicising the approved list of cooperatives and farmer organisations in the various camps and at district level;

(e) appraising and approving the local input transporters to participate in the transportation of inputs to the primary cooperatives and other farmer organisations;

(f) reporting monthly to the provincial agricultural coordinator with copies to be given to the district administration during the course of the agricultural season; and

(g) coordinating and monitoring farmer input support programme input distribution exercise at district level.

Mr Speaker, in order to improve on monitoring of performance, a budgetary provision has been made to cater for monitoring activities and enhancing agricultural extension services.

Mr Speaker, there have been concerns that the input distribution has not been competitive. I wish to assure this House that the Government is looking at ways of reviewing procurement procedures to ensure that more firms take part in the distribution exercises. Recently, this House passed the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) Act. In any case, the current practice is that the tenders are open to any firm. It is up to each firm to fulfill the tender requirements.

Mr Speaker, in order to improve the mobility of agricultural extension workers and thereby strengthen the extension services, the ministry has procured over 475 motorbikes out of which 151 are ready for distribution in the course of next week. These will be at district, block and camp levels. This is expected to significantly improve the performance of my ministry, with the main objective of increasing farmers’ productivity and production through enhanced farmer/extension officer contact times. In addition, the ministry has embarked on the recruitment of staff to replace those that have left the ministry due to various reasons. The rehabilitation of camp staff houses and officer accommodation is an ongoing process.

Mr Speaker, the ministry will, in the first week of October, 2009, be conducting sensitisation meetings in all provinces to explain the revised implementation modalities for the 2009/2010 agricultural season to all agricultural district staff and members of the district agricultural committees. As at now, camp agricultural committees have already been asked to start the process of farmer selection. By mid-October, 2009, inputs will have started being delivered to the selected farmers in all districts.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to appeal to all stakeholders to give chance to my ministry to implement the programme based on the revised modalities even if the revisions may not have met everyone’s expectations. While our doors remain open to constructive criticism, we would also be grateful to receive some breathing space to try out these new modalities. In instituting these changes, the Government is mindful of the need to keep the system simple while at the same time keeping the administrative costs of implementing the programme reasonably low.

Mr Speaker, a team from my ministry and the private sector visited Malawi, Kenya and Tanzania, as alluded to above, and our findings show that all the three countries visited run subsidised agricultural input programmes as a way of helping to improve access to improve inputs among resource-constrained small-scale farmers and to improve their household and national food security. Each of these countries’ input subsidy programmes are implemented differently and possess a number of unique features. Common among these is the use of the voucher system to which we, as a Government, have put provision for pilot in the 2010/2011 farming season. I also wish to assure the nation that the Government desires to use the best and tested implementation modalities for its subsidy programme. It is for this reason that the ministry will continue engaging all the stakeholders with a view to working out the necessary conditions for the implementation of the voucher system. It has to be noted that, already, the Government is not directly involved in the sourcing and distribution of fertilisers and seed to small-scale farmers. We, therefore, foresee the transition to the voucher system based on the farmer register to be a workable programme. For such a programme to show results, it needs consistency for a number of reasons. There is need at every level of the input supply chain and at farmer levels to build capacity to create demand and ownership of the programme. I hope that this statement and guidelines for the 2009/2010 Farmer Input Support Programme which will be available shortly in hon. Members’ pigeon holes will clarify many questions that hon. Members of Parliament might have had. Support by all hon. Members is a sure way to begin the journey of a consistent household food security, national food security and poverty reduction.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification contained in the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, we all know that if Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) was operating at full capacity, fertiliser was going to be produced locally and cheaper. I would like to find from the hon. Minister what this Government is doing to stop strikes by workers at NCZ.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is not correct that fertilisers that would have been produced at NCZ would have been cheaper because we still have to import all the raw materials and there is also the efficiency aspect of production.

Mr Speaker, NCZ has had many problems for many years and the combination of factors, the issue of indebtedness to creditors and retirees have compounded the difficulties at NCZ.

The House might recall that, perhaps, in 2000 or thereabout, NCZ was recapitalised. Unfortunately, the funds were not prudently utilised and since then, there has been a downward trend in terms of the building of the debt at NCZ.

Mr Speaker, I have to present the current findings of NCZ with regard to the viability of the company. It is true that the Government with the good intention of NCZ participating in this year’s programme, in fact, provided K5 billion for rehabilitation. However, due to many factors, it has been found not possible that NCZ will participate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why he did not indicate that one of the biggest problems of the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) now the Farmer Input Support Programme has been that of thefts by co-ordinators and people who are in related functions. What is he also doing, now that they have changed the nomenclature of the programme, to circumvent thefts?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I tabulated the concerns of stakeholders and some hon. Members of Parliament. The first thefts that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central mentioned arise from poor beneficiary identification so much so that the fertiliser inputs that were purported to go to identified beneficiaries were, in fact, not reaching them and thereby became a conduit for thefts. We believe that with strengthened farmer identification at camp level where the fields are, and with this information available at headquarters through the districts and provinces, the allocated fertilisers will now go to those identified farmers. The opportunity for non-existent co-operatives may not arise. This is what we have put in place to minimise or reduce the thefts that were observed in the past season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, previously, we were talking about viable peasant farmers and there was a story of giving eight packs and after three years or so, these would be weaned out and then go to the next bunch. Now that the Government has reduced the number of fertilisers from eight packs to four packs, is the hon. Minister telling us that we are no longer talking about assisting these peasant farmers to grow them into, at least, middle income group? Now that we are following the Malawi system of just helping these peasant farmers to grow enough for consumption and no surplus, looking at the quantity, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a policy shift.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I had honestly hoped that my statement would clear what the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe is asking. It is true that graduation on the pack of eight packs was difficult. In many cases, it did not occur. It is the creation of this dependency I would like to share with my colleagues, hon. Members of Parliament, that for once, can we shift from input and focus our minds on production. Our small-scale farmers on a pack of eight, on average, were producing between thirty and thirty-five 50-kilogram bags per hectare. It is true that there are areas of high production like Mbala, Nakonde and Muyombe and down south in the traditional area but, on average, our small-scale farmers toiled to produce only thirty or thirty-five 50-kilogram bags over a huge area.

   The reasons were the use of a hoe, the inability to prepare the land early enough and the difficulty in weeding. In this policy shift, we have said where that energy is concentrated in half a hectare, it will promote our small holder farmers to prepare properly the small piece of land, plant early and manage the weeds. At the end…

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Dr Chituwo: … the production would be that of a one-hectare piece of land. We are really relieving our small holder farmer of this laborious way of producing little.

The other aspect, Mr Speaker, is that the fertiliser price has come down. The average price now is between K145,000 and K160,000 per 50 kilogram bag from K283,000. If, therefore, the farmer groups and co-operatives come together and get a bit of money from each member, surely, they can add on for their members to improve on their hectarage. These are the reasons we feel we should be assisting our small-scale farmers.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, in 2008, during the Presidential election, for the first time in the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP), civil servants were allowed to access fertiliser. Now, since this is not an election year, will civil servants be allowed to access this fertiliser?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the Government policy to make this shift and improve household food security has not been necessitated by the fact that there is no election.

Mr Speaker, the price of fertiliser has remained at K50,000. Is there an election? There is no election.

Interruptions

Dr Chituwo: It is 50…

Mr Kambwili: The question is about civil servants.

Dr Chituwo: Please, hold on. The Farmer Input Support Programme entails that those would-be beneficiaries will have to pay K50,000 per 50 kilogram bag. This programme started during the period the hon. Member alluded to. There are no elections in 2009.

With regard to civil servants, I can clearly say that they played a role. In this programme, there was no mention and, therefore, they can only participate if they if camp agriculture committees (CAC) identify them with farms or fields and are part of the co-operative farm organisation.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC., (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, since that is a Government of laws and we are cognisant of the fact that you have a law called the Registration and Development of Villages Act Chapter 289 of the Laws of Zambia which provides for the keeping of village registers, does the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives not agree that the effectiveness of the Farmer Input Support Programme would have been better if you allocated fertiliser by following the village registers which are monitored by the District Commissioner in each district?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this is a very important question raised by the hon. Member for Chasefu. However, in looking at this issue, the village register consists of everybody, namely, a hunter, fisherman and village doctor. This programme actually will draw strength from the villagers who are members of the co-operatives and farmers’ organisations. There is really no contradiction, but this existence of village registers will just enrich what we have put in place.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, what measures is the ministry going to put in place to ensure that the list which is coming from the camp committees is not doctored by the district agriculture committees as has been happening in the past? They have been reducing the packs for the farmers.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in order to find a remedy for what has been mentioned by the hon. Member for Isoka West, we have strengthened the district agriculture committees. We have men and women of God at camp level on those committees. In addition, we are strengthening the farmer register. This is one of the conditions. The district agriculture committees publishes beneficiaries at district and camp levels so that the representation from camp to district agriculture committee would ensure that the list that has come from the camp agriculture committees remain the same at district agriculture committees. The idea is to match the inputs with the would-be beneficiaries. I would like to believe that these measures will avoid putting names that have not been submitted.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, as you review the programme, why is it that the Government has not divided the nation into regions to allow more players in the distribution of fertiliser to our farmers?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this country has been divided into nine zones and our document solicited for would-be suppliers to choose from any of those nine. Our idea was dependent upon the capacity of the firm. They would choose, perhaps, one or two zones and this, in fact, has already been done so that we can have these inputs early in those areas.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has explained about the change from Fertiliser Support Programme to Farmer Input Support Programme. How sustainable is this programme because we have not seen any significant change from our farmers since this programme started?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to state that it is not true that the farmers have not appreciated this programme. In 2002 and 2003, the national production was estimated at 433,000 metric tonnes of maize. Over the years, except for one season when we had a drought, we have seen an increased production to last season when we had almost 1.9 million metric tonnes of maize. We would like to believe that this programme is contributing to empowering our small holder farmers who, in fact, in the last season contributed 88 per cent of the 1.9 million metric tonnes of maize. 
Mr Speaker, it could be that there are other reasons. However, this is certainly the largest programme of subsidy and, therefore, we would like to believe that it is contributing positively. We know, also, that small holder farmers buy their own inputs, but we shall not be fair on ourselves to think that this programme has not contributed much to household food security.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of sustainability, this House will have to decide. In my view, the decision will have to depend on whether we are happy with household food security of the small holder farmer. In our view, as a Government, this is a programme which should continue as we link up the small holder farmers to credit so that they can stand on their own.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, we are told that the fertiliser and seed were in the sheds as early as August. Why does it take long for the ministry to distribute the farming inputs?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Mkushi South did not fully listen to my statement. I did not say what he has just said. I said that fertilisers were in the provinces and districts by August and that seed would be expected in the next week or so. I hope I have clarified this point.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives informed this House that the ministry was engaged in establishing a National Farmers Register. May he inform us on how many farmers have been listed?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the farmers’ registers are district based and every district has endeavours to complete this programme. Since it is district based, it is already available. It is from the farmers’ registers that we shall base the selection and link it with the co-operatives and farmers’ organisations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, getting farm inputs is becoming more cumbersome by the day. What is the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives doing to train and sensitise farmers with cattle on the use of cow dung for manure as it produces the same amount of crop output per hectare as in the use of fertiliser?

Dr Chituwo: The correct terminology is cow manure. I remember, Mr Speaker, you guided me and I have not forgotten.

Mr Speaker, indeed, the use of organic manure has to be encouraged. It is much more environmentally friendly. This is a very well known practice where the hon. Member of Parliament comes from. I do not know how much value this sensitisation will add. However, all we can do, as a ministry, is to promote our traditional way and encourage it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, many poor people in rural areas have, over the years, depended on fertiliser from the food security packs, in this case, the Programme Against Malnutrition (PAM) fertiliser. However, the Government has reduced this PAM fertiliser and eventually, it is not being received in many places. The hon. Minister has been conspicuously silent about this type of fertiliser. May I know whether the Government has now abandoned the provision of fertiliser to poor people in the rural areas through the food security packs namely PAM fertiliser.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I must apologise if I did not mention the food security packs. Although it contributes to food security, my view was that this is ably managed by my colleague in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. In fact, the PAM programme is progressively being taken over by the ministry because that is where the capacity is. If my memory serves me right, the ministry is now in thirty-six districts. The programme is very well, still alive and identifying those needy families such as old people-headed households. It has not been abandoned and is complementing our efforts. If I recall, there has been K10 billion allocated to this programme it is being used effectively.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Well done!

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has any intention of re-introducing Government owned farms in order to increase production in farming in view of idle land that is lying in the provinces.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we have no intention of re-introducing State owned farms. In 1993 or there about, we changed our policy to a liberalised economy. The Government’s role is to facilitate various stakeholders in agriculture from production, value addition to marketing.

Mr Speaker, we have, in the past, invited the private sector through the advertised farm blocks because we believe that with the private sector on board, we that added advantage of ownership can do much better by taking that route than the previous one of the State owning farms.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to comment on policy shifts on the fertiliser support services. We had 8 x 50 Kg packs, but have now gone down to 4 x 50 kg packs without giving us the successes and failures of the previous package. What assurance is the hon. Minister giving this House that the new policy will definitely go towards meeting the objectives of the food support to farmers?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, there was an explanation given on that shift. However, let me state that the success of this programme, as I said, weather permitting, will depend upon all those factors that are mentioned. Our focus is the small-holder farmer and the success can only be assessed once we have tried it. However, from the previous experiences elsewhere and also within our country, using conservation farming, for instance, we found that the small-holder farmer can produce more on land that they cultivate and can manage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just stated that the cost of fertiliser will be K50,000.00 per 50 kilogram bag. Can he assure this House that this price will be uniform throughout the country?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the price of fertiliser will be uniform just like it was in the last season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Silavwe (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that agricultural inputs have reached all the districts in the country. Can he confirm to this House that seed, basal and top dressing have reached all the districts? If not, why did the ministry start with top instead of basal dressing?

Dr Chituwo: For the third time now, I would like to indicate to the hon. Member that I did not say that seed was available. Hon. Member, that was not the case, I am sorry, Mr Speaker.

Sir, for instance, fertiliser for some districts has been kept in the next districts because of shortage of storage space. Like I said earlier on, for the first time in many years, we have D-compound in all the districts except that there may be this shortfall because of lack of storage facilities and that is why it is being kept in other districts. The hon. Member’s concern regarding Urea arriving earlier than d-compound is a thing of the past and I can acknowledge that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of effort in many areas, including my constituency where people are registering co-operatives in anticipation of being included in the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). Can I learn from the hon. Minister what will happen to these co-operatives and groupings that were formed last year? Are they going to fall away because of these new arrangements?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the rules are such that, for a grouping to be recognised as such must have been in existence for, at least, eighteen months. There should be evidence of an annual general meeting (AGM), bank account and an executive.

Sir, forming co-operatives just before the season starts was a vehicle through which leakages or thefts occurred. We have put in place a monitoring mechanism to verify these co-operatives once they have been submitted at the Camp Agricultural Committee. That is the situation at the moment. I am afraid, unless there are excessive inputs, the newly formed co-operatives would not benefit. Otherwise, they are excluded.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that the fertiliser, which will be sold at K50,000 a bag, does not end at the market to be resold at a higher price.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is for that reason that we have now shifted the identification of would-be beneficiaries at camp agricultural level.

Clearly, if at that level the beneficiary decides to take the fertiliser to the market, then it would be a very sad situation. These members will be part of certain groupings and we would like to believe that their peers will not allow them to put this very limited expensive commodity on market rather than use it for ploughing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, why is this Government shying away from a system which functioned very well and even enabled Zambia to export surplus maize through the National Marketing Board (NAMBOARD)? Why is this Government applying a method of trial and error and persuading hon. Members of Parliament to become fertiliser distributors? What is wrong with reverting to the effective system that Zambia once had, NAMBOARD?

Hon. Opposition Members: Ask Rupiah!

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is in this very House that the hon. Member of Parliament for Sinazongwe vigorously condemned this system. He was very specific regarding the issue of targeting beneficiaries and identification. We have tried in this new guideline to do that. Now, he has shifted and gone into historical aspects of NAMBOARD.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: I think the history of the defunct NAMBOARD is very clear. We will not want to go that way because if the story of NANBOARD was a success, it would have been in existence even today, but where is it? It is not here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Rupiah!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I have not even asked that hon. Members of Parliament to be involved in the distribution of fertiliser. All we are doing is to share with them since they are leaders and most of them are rural based Members of Parliament. We are concerned and we would like to see that these things are put to good use.

I thank you, Sir.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF BATOKA POLICE STATION AND STAFF HOUSES IN CHOMA

71. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the construction of Batoka Police Station and staff houses in Choma Parliamentary Constituency would begin.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Mwansa):  Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that it is the wish of the Government that Batoka should have a police station and staff houses to provide security to the area, but currently the Government is constrained as resources are inadequate to embark on such a very important project.

However, the House may wish to know that the ministry is currently constructing some houses for police officers and rehabilitating the existing ones. Batoka, like any other area, will be considered in due course.

In the meantime, Batoka area will continue to be serviced by the existing police post and Choma Police Station.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the officers at Batoka Police Station are frustrated. What measures can be put in place so that they can continue to work because they have no houses and transport. What does the Government intend to do to motivate these officers?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, we are embarking on a long term solution. We have embarked on a countrywide programme to rehabilitate the existing as well as constructing new infrastructure. The ministry is currently working on a programme to develop these plans under which areas that would need new infrastructure will be identified and new infrastructure constructed.

   These areas will include new districts, new settlement areas such as farming blocks and Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs). These will be provided with the new infrastructure such as houses and police stations. The other programme is to identify infrastructure that needs rehabilitation. This will, also, be documented and funding will be sourced in order to have a permanent solution to this problem. At the moment, what we do is act spontaneously, which is not the way to do it.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, Batoka is a gateway to Sinazongwe, Maamba and Batoka using the main axis. It is the centre for crime,…

Hon. Government Members interrupted.

Major Chizhyuka: …. especially the one which looks like you.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Is it possible …

Mr Speaker: Order! May you address the Chair and withdraw the phrase, “especially the one who looks like you.”

The hon. Member may continue.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement. If a heckler has guts, he must be very careful.

Mr Speaker: Order! You are, now, qualifying the ruling of the Chair. This is exactly why all hon. Members are advised to ignore hecklers because they want you to do exactly what you have just done, to derail you.

You may continue.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged. Is it possible that in your answer, you can give a timeframe for Batoka because if it is left open-ended, the next ministers will say, “when funds are available.”

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, it would be difficult to give a timeframe because resources are not readily available and I do not want promises that we cannot deliver. What I have said is that plans to construct new facilities and rehabilitate the existing ones are under way.

I thank you, Sir.

ENGAGEMENT OF NEW CONTRACTOR FOR WORKS AT KAPEKESA SCHOOL IN CHASEFU CONSTITUENCY

72. Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Education when a new contractor would be engaged to complete the construction of classroom blocks and teacher’s houses at Kapekesa School in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education took measures to ensure that the project at Kapekesa School is completed within reasonable time. The ministry has made efforts to direct the contractor (Gabmans) to speed up the works and he has been given up to the end of this year before we consider terminating his contract.

So far, the contractor has roofed and plastered a 1 x 3 and a 1 x 2 classroom while five teacher’s houses are above the ring beam level. Two houses are at the gable level, one house is at the ring beam level and two houses are at the slab level.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that as late as Monday, this week, construction works at this particular station were far behind schedule, but, to crown it all, even the other project given to this contractor in Lundazi Central Constituency is equally a sad site. Why should it take so long to replace a non-performing contractor?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we are doing everything possible to ensure that the works there are finished in good time. In fact, it was only last week that our civil engineer was at the site to ensure that he supervises the works. From time-to-time, we will be sending our engineers to the site to ensure that this work is completed in good time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, do you need a civil engineer or a clerk of works to supervise these works?

Laughter

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we have the Infrastructure Department that has got people who monitor works. Therefore, I think the hon. Member’s concern is addressed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya indicated.

Mr Speaker: I believe the hon. Member of Parliament has already asked a question, whether the ministry needed an engineer or a clerk to carry out the works. Besides, that question has been answered.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Oh! You are asking on behalf of the hon. Member for Luampa.

Laughter

PROMOTION OF SPORTS IN THE RURAL DISTRICTS OF WESTSERN PROVINCE

73. Mr Mooya (on behalf of Ms Limata) (Luampa ) asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development when the promotion of sports would be extended to the youth in the rural districts of Western Province and, in particular, Luampa Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, I wish to report that my ministry came up with the focus on Youth Sport Programme/Project specifically to provide an opportunity to the rural children to participate in sport. This was implemented in three rural provinces namely; Western Province in (Mongu, Kaoma and Senanga), Luapula Province (Samfya, Mwense and Kawambwa) and Eastern Province (Chipata, Katete and Petauke). Unfortunately, due to budgetary constraints, plans to extend the Focus on Youth Sport Programmes to other rural districts and provinces have proved difficult to implement.

Mr Speaker, all districts in Zambia are supposed to be represented by the District Sport Advisory Committees (DSACs) where sport promotion is concerned. Luampa Parliamentary Constituency is catered for under the Kaoma District Sports Advisory Committee. As earlier alluded to, inadequate finances make it impossible for a DSAC to satisfy the need of all sportsmen and women in the district. This could be the case for Luampa Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, in the First Republic, a Government which was led by people who did not have degrees unlike now that we have doctors on the other side, we used to have very good sports women and men. I have a good example of Charles Musonda who came from Luapula and was transferred to Mufulira Secondary School. He was from a rural area. Why are these people who are so educated with degrees and doctorates, including professors, failing to implement such simple things?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, to the contrary, we are not failing at all. I just would like to remind the hon. Member of Parliament that there were very few youths during the days that she has referred to. 

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, if anything, there are so many sports men and women these days. The record is there and it is very clear. In fact, this Government has done extremely well in as far as promotion of sports is concerned.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the non-involvement of pupils from rural areas has resulted in the decline of sports standards in this country?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, there is no decline at all. An example is that every quarter, inter-district sports festivals take place in most of these districts. The whole idea is to engage our youths in various schools and districts. What the hon. Member is talking about is not what is obtaining at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, given the fact that the hon. Minister admitted that unfortunately, due to lack of finances, they could not pilot the programme in other provinces, would he like to reflect on the Sport for All Project which was there in the early and mid-nineties and gave birth to a number of sports NGOs and does his ministry have any plans whatsoever to buy into the capacity that has been built by these NGOs to go and reach out to the children in rural areas who desperately require support to develop their talent in sport?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata posed too many questions. I, however, want to say that running of sports in this country must not be left to the Government alone. So far, besides the programmes that have been alluded to here, we are working very closely with the sports NGOs that are doing extremely well. In fact, as a ministry, our intention is to commercialise sports. We are discussing with a number of co-operating partners to see if sports could be commercialised so that our partners come on board.

Mr Speaker, I must emphasise the point relating to funding to sports disciplines. I am sure we are aware that in last year’s Budget, we had very little funding for sports in this country. This is the more reason why we involved the co-operating partners, especially for our popular sport, football. Fortunately, they supported us so much. 
This is what we are doing and this Government has done tremendously well in as far as running sports in this country is concerned.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state when this programme will extend to all the districts in the country?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, it is our desire that it is extended to all the provinces and districts of this country. I would like to repeat that funding is the problem. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to also appeal to my hon. Members …

Mr Kambwili: Your hon. Members, do you have some?

Mr Chipungu: You, in particular.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: … to at least say thank you to this ministry because we have been supporting the hon. Members of Parliament vis-à-vis distribution of footballs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, at one time, I cannot remember when exactly, it must have been in the last sitting, when I was on the Floor of this House I informed all the hon. Members that my ministry was distributing footballs and so many of them flocked to my office to collect footballs.

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, those who did not come to collect any footballs, like Hon. Kambwili, should not complain.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister a very simple question. Is the standard of football improving or declining in this country?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, that is very simple arithmetic. In singling out football, when we played Chad, we saw improvement. Everybody praised our national coach who was doing a commendable job. Therefore, to answer the hon. Member’s question, I am confident and happy that there is an improvement …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chipungu: … in all sports disciplines in this country.

Mr Speaker, there is tremendous improvement.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

INTRODUCTION OF A NURSING SCHOOL AT CHINSALI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

74. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali Central) asked the Minister of Health whether the Government had any intention of introducing a college for nurses at Chinsali District Hospital.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to introduce a college for nurses at Chinsali District Hospital because the existing facilities are not adequate for training purposes. The policy of the Government is to have a nursing school where there are, at least, second level hospital facilities as these provide the necessary services which are appropriate for teaching purposes.

Mr Speaker, in line with this policy, the Government plans to expand Kasama School of Nursing in Kasama where there is a second level hospital.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, it is important to balance colleges in all the provinces, particularly, those that hinge on basic needs of this nation and the people. Has the Government got any intention of balancing tertiary education in the critical field of medical staff?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is right. We are trying to spread out. I am sure that he is aware that the first step we have taken is to reopen most of the training schools that were closed. As we get to grips with this new increase, we will look at how we can extend to new places.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his response, stated the fact that nursing schools should be opened at hospitals were there are second level facilities. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how we are allowing the mushrooming of so many private schools, some of which are operating in the backyards of some houses.
Hon. Mwape: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao:  Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mandevu knows very well that these schools take their students to University Teaching Hospital (UTH). I talked about a hospital with second level facilities not that it should be a second level hospital. Once it has been recognised that it has the facilities, it can be allowed to undertake training of nurses.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government is considering reopening nurses training schools that were closed for sometime. Can he confirm whether Lubwe and Mbereshi are among those they are contemplating to open soon? 

Mr Simbao: No, Mr Speaker. Not immediately.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health aware that more than three quarters of Zambian-trained nurses have gone out of the country because of poor conditions of service? What is the hon. Minister doing to make sure he retains trained nurses?

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question. I hope his wife is not one of the nurses who have run away from the country.

 Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this has just been a world trend. It is not just in Zambia alone. I think a time will come when this is going to stop. Recently, I attended a meeting of ministers. Let me just to give an example of what is happening elsewhere. In Ethiopia, 3,000 doctors are trained per year, Egypt trains 10,000 doctors per year while in Zambia we train forty doctors per year. You can see the difference. So while we complain about people going away, others are improving and increasing the numbers and they do not care. They say, “Let them go, they will remember home, will send back money to their relatives and that money will improve the economy of their countries of origin”. Therefore, we should not cry over this. Instead, we should improve on the numbers.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

STABILISATION OF MEALIE MEAL PRICES

75. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what measures had been taken to stabilise the high price of mealie meal in the country.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this House that the rise in food prices is currently a global phenomenon. To mitigate against rising food prices in the wake of an anticipated domestic deficit, the Government facilitated the importation of limited quantities of maize. In addition, it engaged in a buy-back programme with millers which involved the Government buying maize from millers at prevailing market prices and selling it back to them at recommended lower prices. These measures helped to stop mealie meal prices from rising excessively.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, at the time the mealie meal prices were going up in this country, we were told that it was because of the cartel among the millers. We were also told that once this is solved and the price of maize stabilises, the prices will go down. All these conditions have been met, and yet the price of mealie meal, especially on the Copperbelt, is above K70,000 per 25kg bag. Could the hon. Minister tell this House why the price is still going up?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is true that the objective of that exercise was through the millers that signed the contract with the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) that through their outlets, the mealie meal prices would be as at agreed prices. However, we found that there are more retailers outside their outlets for the millers.

Mr Speaker, I must say that while a few people did benefit, the majority did not. That being the case, we have seen that once prices have gone up, our traders rarely reduce these prices, and hence what is prevailing at the moment.
 
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, what mechanism is the Government using in actually checking on the quality of this mealie meal?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we do not own any milling plant, but each milling company has a quality assurance laboratory. They release their mealie meal following verification that the mealie meal is of the standard for human consumption. When we have received complaints, then it is our duty through the Food and Drug Laboratory to now investigate whether the complaint is genuine. That is when we come in with regard to verifying the standard of the mealie meal that is produced.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the reason behind the high mealie meal prices is basically the excessive profiteering by the maize traders and millers. Since the Government is subsidising maize production to some extent, do they not see that they are morally bound to control mealie meal prices in this country.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the subsidy was for the specific period up to March, 2009. After that, the market forces have taken over. Therefore, it is only during that period that there was this agreement because there was a subsidy.

 I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, supply and demand determine the price in the liberal economy. I wish to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is the supply that we do not have in this country, seeing that not much maize is pouring to the millers and that is why the price is not coming down because if the supply was so much, it would definitely influence the price and the price would come down.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I do agree that the rule of supply and demand does work. We have seen over many years that during this time of the year, the mealie meal prices do actually come down. The supply and demand also depends upon the preference in terms of purchases by the millers and grain traders. Truly, our expectation has been that with this surplus that we have this year, we would have expected that the retailer would have reduced the prices.

We have a problem here in that we have no control measures, rules or laws and therefore, one finds that certainly there are sections that benefit while others do not, and yet the traders continue to charge whatever price they want in spite of the surplus.

 Mr Speaker, I have no reason to give, but basically it is because there is a desire for profiteering. That is the only explanation one can give. Otherwise, it defeats the economic process of supply and demand.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, in view of the admission by the hon. Minister that market forces are impotent in determining prices in this particular case, what does his ministry intend to do to bring sanity to the pricing of mealie meal.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we have identified that marketing is the major constraint. Once we assure the small-scale farmer that they need not get rid of their maize as quickly as possible and assure them of a price, then we feel that improvement in the market process will stimulate more production and because of this assurance, we are likely to see the prices of the final commodity stabilise.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, Zambia’s main food is nshima which comes from maize meal. What is the Government doing to intervene in the pricing of mealie meal so that the cost comes down? Maize being the staple food, we cannot just standby and watch its price going up.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think that question has already been asked. However, my answer is that the Government’s influence on the price of mealie meal is to have the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in place which will ensure that the majority of our people who do not have large quantities of maize in the rural areas will, at least, be assured of household food security. Short of that, we need to stabilise the market and in turn, it will stabilise the mealie meal prices.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NUMBER OF DEATHS RECORDED DURING STRIKES BY NURSES IN 2009 COMPARED TO 2008

76. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Health how many deaths were recorded during the strike by nurses in May/June 2009 compared to the same period in 2008 at the following hospitals:

(a) UTH;

(b) Ndola Central Hospital; and

(c) Kitwe Central Hospital.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, the deaths that were recorded during the strike by the nurses in May/June 2009 compared to the same period in 2008 at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Ndola Central Hospital and Kitwe Central Hospital is as follows:

(i) at the UTH 1,224 deaths were recorded between May and June 2009 compared to 1,335 deaths that were recorded in 2008 between May and June;

(ii) at the Ndola Central Hospital, 231 deaths were recorded between May and June in 2009 and 201 deaths were recorded in 2008 between May and June; and

(iii) at the Kitwe Central Hospital, 453 deaths were recorded in May and June 2009 while 440 deaths were recorded in 2008 between May and June.

Mr Speaker, generally, more deaths were record at the three major hospitals in 2008 than in 2009.

Laughter

Mr Simbao: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, could this be the reason you did not bother to do anything about the strike for nurses since there were less deaths recorded this year than in the previous year?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is very important to understand the behaviour of systems, especially heavy-loaded systems. Heavy-loaded systems take time to settle when they are disturbed. Therefore, a disturbance would take some time to start taking effect. It does not necessarily mean that right there and then a very big difference will be seen.

Sir, let me take this opportunity to state that it is important for people in this country to understand the risks in some of the jobs that people do. For this reason, we must thank those people that still feel like working. At this point, I wish to commend the nurses, particularly the Catholic nurses, who came out in the papers when they refused …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simbao: … to go on strike because …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … they took an oath. The oath nurses take is not to abandon a patient.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Issues that medical personnel go on strike for do not favour the sick people. It is not that the Government has refused to do these things they are asking for or to pay. The Government does not refuse to do these things, and yet people choose to abandon the sick. It is not fair. Therefore, the reason you do not see much deference is because some people still remain and give this service.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, can we be specific. We are interested in unnecessary deaths. Perhaps it would help to focus upon the maternity wards where there is no real delay between a nurse not being there, a child being stillborn or a mother dying at birth. What numbers of babies and mothers died unnecessarily as a consequence of no services in the maternity ward …

Interjection

Dr Scott: It is the same question. What could the Government have done about it?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that I do not have the figure he is probably asking about. However, it is important to state that those of us who looked at yesterday’s The Standard newspaper of South Africa, has a story about a lady who delivered at work. The reason is that according to her, she did not know that she was in labour. At the time she realised she was in labour, it was too late. So a fellow worker had to assist her deliver and she is very grateful to that colleague. By the time the company called for an ambulance, the baby had already been delivered by another worker and the mother and child were taken to hospital. These things happen because of delays. There are some identified delays. This starts from the mother and father. That is where it begins. So these problems are not to Zambia alone.

Dr Scott: The figure!

Mr Simbao: I have said that I do not have the figures that you want. I can tell you that there was nothing like that reported to me. I know that there could have been figures which I do not have.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, for this country not to experience further strikes, what is the Government doing to address the nurses concerns?

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, there is a standing committee that meets every month to look at the nurses’ problems. Nurses are also involved so that we can chart an acceptable path to go to avoid strikes. Therefore, it is our hope that the people who meet every month will come up with a solution to the problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that no information about mothers or babies dying at delivery due to lack of nurses was brought to his attention.

   Can I ask the hon. Minister whether that also includes the matter of the mother who delivered under a tree and the baby passed on? Was that matter not brought to his attention and if so why is he not acknowledging that, indeed, there were some children who died because of the nurses’ strike in May, 2009?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, first of all I must inform the hon. Member that everyday I get a report of those that are brought in dead (BID) as well as those who are dying in the hospital. Because I am interested in maternal deaths, I requested that they include the issues of that nature and that they should also give me a report on how that child died. The maternal deaths have been reduced from 7.9 per 1,000 to 591 per 1,000 which is still very high. I am still interested to know why a mother dies. Is it because of our administration in the hospitals or what could be the problem?

We have reduced the deaths in children from 168 per 1,000 to 119 per 1,000, again they make a report for me for all the cases. Now, it was not mentioned whether the child died because there were no nurses. Maybe I should request for that information. I must mention here that children are dying everyday in the range of ten to nineteen.

Mrs Phiri Laughed.

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I do not think it is because of the strike. The reason is that the number of nurses in this country is only 50 percent of the required number. Whether we have a strike or not the nurses we have are in the range of 50 percent and that is why we always say that we are trying to increase and improve the training institutions so that we can raise the number of nurses in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

LUANSHYA COPPER MINES PLC WORKERS

77. Mr D Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) why the Luanshya Copper Mines (LCM) Plc decided to employ workers on short-term contracts;

(b) how many employees had so far been engaged under this arrangement;

(c) what benefits the employees would get at the expiry of their contracts; and

(d) what the future plans of management for these employees were.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the Luanshya Copper Mines decided to employ workers on short-term contracts because it is currently undergoing a rehabilitation process, that is, an institutional audit of the mine is being conducted. When production begins in December, 2009, an approved structure and establishment will be put in place which will determine the number of both local and foreign employees. There will also be a determined mode of operation that entails that revised terms and conditions of service will be put in place. The employees who will be recruited in December will be on permanent and pensionable employment.

Mr Speaker, there are 1,360 employees so far engaged under this arrangement. The employees will get their gratuity at the expiry of the contracts which is 15 percent of their salary and leave commutations.

The future plans are that management will…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

 [MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was talking about the future plans of management LCM. Management at LCM will give the employees pensionable employment according to the labour laws, subject to job requirements and performance, once production begins.

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform the House that by December, 2009, the Baluba Concentrator and mine will start production and the company will recruit starting from 2,500 to 3,000 employees.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed us that by December, 2009, the mine will recruit 2,500 to 3,000 employees. I would like to know under what conditions these employees will be employed since a recognition agreement has not been put in place.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, as I indicated, they will be employed on pensionable conditions and this will be from December, 2009.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, most of the investors who come in the country are not following the labour laws by victimising our women. We have situations where when women get pregnant, they are chased from work and when they refuse to attend to the men who make advances to them, they are fired. Could the hon. Minister tell me how they are going to handle such issues so that the women can also enjoy their lives because this is their country?

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu) (on behalf of the Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, borrowing the words of Hon. Lungwangwa, you can clearly see that the question has nothing to do with LCM. You have always guided us that if the hon. Minister has a bonus answer, he can give it to the House.

Mr Speaker, this Government as you are aware is of laws.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, our laws are very active and our labour inspectors are at work everyday and they will take your concerns very seriously. The Ministry will see to it that our women are protected.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security knows that 80 per cent of the employees at Luanshya are over forty-five years and the Chinese have said all those above forty-five years will not sign pensionable contracts. Is this not a way of running away from signing people on pensionable conditions knowing that 80 per cent of the employees are above forty-five.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, our answer is very clear and did not mention anything to do with age for those to be employed at Luanshya mine. It is also very clear here that by December 2009, the mine will advertise jobs and those with qualifications will qualify to be employed.

I thank you, Sir.

REVISED FERTILISER SUPPORT PROGRAMME GUIDELINES

78. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives:

(a) what the details of the new revised guidelines for the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) are; and

(b) what the advantages of the new guidelines over the old ones are.

The Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker I seek your indulgence that Question 78 is actually seeking what I believe was comprehensively recovered in my statement. However, instead of repeating myself, I thought I would probably lay this statement on the table for the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya to have the benefit from it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I would like to guide the hon. Minister to read his answer.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the specific details of the new revised guidelines for Fertiliser Support Programme are as follows:

(a) the FSP has been renamed as Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP);

(b) the pack size has been reduced to 4 x 50 kg bags of fertiliser, two basal and two top dressing with ten kg maize seed;

(c) the individual farmers will apply for inputs using individual application forms and submit them to the cooperatives farmer organisations which  will recommend them to camp agriculture committees;

(d) the camp agriculture committees shall verify and approve the farmers applications within the cooperatives farmer organisations using the farmer register; and

(e) the cooperatives farmer organisations have the choice of which bank to work with among the participating banks into which they will deposit their contribution for them to access the inputs;

The advantages of the new guidelines over the old ones are:

(a) the change of the name to FISP …

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: … will remove excess focus on fertiliser and accommodate other inputs;

(b) more under privileged farmers will access the input directly from the programme because of the reduced pack size;
(c) the reduced pack will enhance private sector participation as farmers with the capacity to grow more will purchase additional inputs from the open market and not from FISP beneficiaries;

(d) the cooperatives/farmers organisation have the choice of a bank into which they will deposit their contribution for them to access the inputs  and this is expected to improve the quality of service banks offer to the farmers;

Mr Speaker, furthermore, the ministry expected the following:

(a) at the camp level, it is expected that they will be an eradication of bogus farmers accessing inputs either through bogus farmer organisations or bogus cooperatives;

(b) with camp agricultural committees in place, it will be easier to monitor whether those targeted to benefit from the programme are getting the inputs;

(c) further, with the ministry having recruited additional camp extension officers, it expects to provide better agricultural extension services to benefiting farmers and subsequently stimulate improved productivity and production; and

(d) records of farmer requirements and capacities, farmer organisations and cooperatives are expected to improve as the programme takes stock of production and productivity from supported farmers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I will give hon. Member for Mapatizya an opportunity to ask a follow-up question and not the rest that as that will a repetition of what happened when the hon. Minister gave the statement.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure this House that there will be no delays in the distribution of inputs given the new elaborate bureaucratic process involving the cooperatives, agricultural camps and district committees. Will this not lead to delays in the allocation of inputs?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we believe there will be no delays. That was one of the concerns that led to the review of the previous programme. The delay which was identified firstly was at the point of tendering. It used to start late for both fertilisers and seed. The next point was at the identification of the transporter and the third one, was basically the issue of inputs not reaching all the beneficiaries. We would like to believe that since the major link for beneficiaries at camp level where those in charge of the comparatives where they actually live, then those units will be able to facilitate and identify would be beneficiaries quicker than was the case at district agriculture committee level.

I thank you, Sir.

TURNING OF CHIKUNI BASIC SCHOOL INTO AN EXAMINATION CENTRE

79. Mr Mwansa asked the Minister of Education when Chikuni Basic School in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency, which had met all the requirements, would become an examination centre.

The Deputy Minister of Education: Mr Speaker, there are criteria for an institution to be given examination centre status. These include the availability of a strong room and other security features as well as the capacity to facilitate the holding of examinations. All schools are advised to apply to the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) for processing of their requests to become examination centres. If the above school met the requirements and they have, indeed, applied, we suggest that the hon. Member can follow up this issue with the ECZ.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwansa: Sir, first of all, just to correct the hon. Minister, it is Chikuwe Basic School and not Chikuni.  The hon. Minister is insisting that hon. Members must now become the ones who should start running around to see to it that each basic school in this country has an examination numbers. Would it be correct to make this House become the basis upon which the Government works?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question and I would also like to correct him that the way I read the name of the school is the way it is written on the Order Paper. In fact, we were wondering whether there was such a school in that Parliamentary constituency.

Mr Speaker, I want to assure him that we are actually impressing upon our officers to process the applications and if at all he feels that we are not doing anything, I would like to ask him to come and see me so that we can solve the problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

WORK PERMITS GIVEN TO INDIANS AT KONKOLA COPPER MINES PLC

80. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many individuals of Indian nationality were given work permits to enable them be employed by the Konkola Copper Mines Plc as of 31st December, 2008; and

(b) why the ministry has continued to grant work permits to Indian nationals to work in the Human Resources Department of Konkola Copper Mines Plc when there were many qualified Zambian nationals for the same positions.

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani)): Mr Speaker, as of 31st December, 2008 the Department of Immigration issued a total of 140 work permits to Indian nationals to work at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc. As of 30th September, 2009 the number has reduced to 105.

As of 31st December, 2008 there was no one of Indian nationality with a work permit to work in the Human Resources Department at KCM.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from …

Mr Speaker: Order! Is the hon. Member for Kanchibiya following up? I can see him standing up.

Mr Kambwili: Iwe nabansonta kale.

Laughter

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, may I find out why the number has reduced from 140 to 105 as of today.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, expatriate employees are employed for specific periods of time, usually when there are no Zambian nationals to take up those jobs. When Zambians are fully trained or available to take up the positions, then the expatriate personnel are phased out.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government did a physical inspection because there is an Indian working at the concentrator in the Human Resources Department at KCM in Nchanga. Where did the hon. Minister get that answer from?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Roan is challenging the Government’s source of information.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Mwansa: The information we bring here is credible, researched, counter checked and, therefore, correct.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, could the Leader of Government Business and acting hon. Minister of Home Affairs confirm that there are Zambians who look Asian but are Zambians.

Laughter

Dr Mwansa: I certainly confirm.

Laughter

Dr Mwansa: I think that is the reason for the confusion in which Hon. Kambwili finds himself today.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that as of 30th September, 2009 there were 104 Indian nationals working at KCM. May I know which fields we failed to supply labour or personnel at KCM.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the number is actually 105 as of September, 2009. These are employed or utilised in areas where we have no local expertise, especially in technical areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House not consider 105 Indians to be an extremely high number considering the experience that Zambians had in mining before this mine was sold?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, 105 is not very high compared to 9,000 local personnel working for KCM. We have had a serious resource gap because for long time the School of Mines at the University of Zambia was not training students during the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) days, especially towards the end of 1996. Most of those that were trained have left to work in mines outside the country and that is why we are still employing or using expatriates in certain fields where Zambians are not available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, the KCM smelter is going through what the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development termed as ‘teething problems’. Do we see a situation where this number of expatriates …

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask you question.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, do we see a situation where the number of expatriates at KCM will go up in view of the problems that the smelter is going through?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the short answer is no.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find why the Government has allowed Mopani Copper Mines Plc to have expatriate employees to work for more than twenty years at the smelter at the expense of Zambians. Zimbabweans have also been allowed to take over from Zambians that have been retrenched. If the same rationale is being used, why is it different at Mopani Copper Mines Plc where the expatriates work for more years than Zambians?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the question we are considering is KCM and not Mopani Copper Mine. Therefore, you need to bring that question fresh.

I thank you, Sir.

LIFESPAN FOR MINES IN ZAMBIA

81. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) what the estimated lifespan of each of the following mines was:

(i) Nchanga Open Pit;
(ii) Nchanga Underground;
(iii) Lumwana Open Pit;
(iv) Baluba Shaft;
(v) Mopani Copper Mine in Kitwe; and
(vi) Mopani Copper Mine in Mufulira;

(b) what the estimated ore deposits in the mines above was; and

(c) what economic activities the Government intended to introduce to the mining towns above in view of the depleting ore reserves.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, the lifespan of each of the mines listed in the question has been estimated as follows:

(i) Nchanga Open Pit: six years
(ii) Nchanga Underground: twenty-two years;
(iii) Lumwana Open Pit: thirty-seven years;
(iv) Baluba Shaft: fifteen years;
(v) Mopani Copper Mine in Kitwe: thirty-five years;
(vi) Mopani Copper Mine in Mufulira: five years

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that the lifespan of a mine may change depending on the exploration programme put in place, mining technology and the commodity price at any given time. Therefore, the lifespan of the mines above can be extended beyond their current estimated periods as more ore reserves are discovered through continued exploration programmes, improvements in mining, technology and increase in commodity prices.

On the estimated quantity of copper ore in the mine, the estimated quantity of copper ore in the mines indicated below is as follows:

 (i) Nchanga Open Pit   12 million tonnes;
 
 (ii) Nchanga Underground  72 million tonnes;

 (iii) Lumwana    630 million tonnes

 (iv) Baluba Shaft    33 million tonnes

 (v) Mopani Copper Mine in Kitwe 147 million tones

 (vi) Mopani Copper Mine in Mufulira 7 million tones.

Mr Speaker, on economic activities the Government intends to introduce to the mining towns, I wish to state that the we have set up a multi-facility economic zone on the Copperbelt which will bring in more activities which are not mining based and hence will provide an alternative economic activity to the mining towns when mining ceases. In addition, the Government has always encouraged local authorities in mining areas to set up farming blocks for agriculture activities which can offer alternative sources of livelihood should mines cease operations because of ore depletion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, ZCCM introduced the resettlement scheme of which Lufwanyama ex-miners Resettlement Scheme is a good example to introduce ex-miners to the agriculture sector. May I find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the Government has compelled these mining companies that have bought the existing mines to continue with such a project so that miners are not left destitute after leaving the mining industry.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, in our response, we indicated that we are encouraging the local authorities to reserve some land that can be used for farming blocks where our retired miners can be settled.

Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that companies such as Mopani have got farming blocks and will pursue the direction of engaging these new mining companies to see to it that they establish farming blocks as suggested by the hon. Member. You may wish to know that in terms of Lumwana, we have a scheme in which they empower local people there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, diamond or core drilling is the only way of determining the contents of copper or whatever it may be. Why has the Government not taken it as a policy to encourage investors to do diamond drilling within the areas mining companies are operating so that they can estimate the lifespan of the mines that exist in the country?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, it is indicated in our response that the lifespan of mines can be extended depending on the exploration programmes that are being undertaken by the mining companies. I may inform the hon. Member for Sinazongwe that all the mining companies undertake exploration programmes and these activities are on-going. However, the level may decrease with reduction in terms of commodity price.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister. Looking at the list, Mufulira Mine has the least number of years. Is it because of the crude method that Mopani has used on these mines?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, crude, in itself, does not describe, basically, what the mining method is. What I would like to inform the hon. Member for Kankoyo is that Mufulira was among the first mines to employ mechanised mining which is a modern type of underground mining.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what specific measures the Government has undertaken to compel mining companies, specifically Mopani Copper Mine, to extend its lifespan from five years.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the bottom line is that there is no ore body and there is nothing that we can do about it. We cannot extend the life of the mine. However, that does not mean that Mopani Copper Mines is not carrying out any exploration works in Mufulira.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, my concern is on Mufulira which has got a five-year lifespan. Mopani Copper Mines in Mufulira have just finished construction of the smelter. What is the future of the mine when you consider that management has constructed a new smelter?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the smelter that was upgraded in Mufulira is a common user facility for both operations at Nkana and Mufulira.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that there is a future for that smelter as we are anticipating our production of copper to increase to about one million tonnes. This means we will need more smelting capacity if we are to export concentrates. Therefore, it follows that Mufulira smelter will continue being used and it will even provide the ore treatment for the concentrates from neighbouring countries.

 I thank you, Sir.

OPENNING OF NEW MINES IN WESTERN PROVINCE

82. Mr Mooya (Moomba) (on behalf of Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether there were any plans to open mines in the following districts:

(i) Kalabo;

(ii) Lukulu; and

(iii) Kaoma.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, currently, there are five companies carrying out exploration work while one company is carrying out mining operations in the districts listed in the question and these are:

License License Granted Expires Resources Location
No.  holder

LPL  Workman 25/8/09 24/8/11 Silver,  Kaoma
12129 Mining      Gold  Lukulu
HQ  Industries

LPL  Lufilian 29/12/05 28/12/09 Copper  Kaoma
275 Mining Ltd

LPL  VCM  30/5/06 29/5/10 Copper  Kaoma
288 Bethel
Mining Ltd

LSM 56 Spirit of 26/11/06 25/11/30 Diamond Kalabo
  the River

SML 269 Spectra  20/11/06 19/11/11 Diatomite Kalabo
  (Z) Ltd

12580- Princess 2/10/08 1/10/10 Stone  Kaoma
HQ SPP Nakatindi     aggregates
  Wina

The House may wish to know that once the existence of mineral deposits is proven, it is expected that mine development will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that in 1981, the geological report by the then Director of Geology, Mr Mickmane, and that of the current Director, Mr Lwingu, pointed to the fact that there are large deposits of oil in the district in question? Why is the Government not making the necessary infrastructure development for would-be investors in the areas rather than making reference to a company such as Spirit of the River which left this country?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. I would like to state that, as a Government, we are not aware of the existence of oil deposits. However, there are indications of possible occurrences of oil and gas in the areas the hon. Member is alluding to. The infrastructure development would be carried as and when petroleum has been proven.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to bring half baked information about the Spirit of the River…

Laughter

Mr Mwapela: … to this House when this company left Kalabo two years ago?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That was a point of order on the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.
 
Laughter

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question and the concern expressed over the operations of the Spirit of the River. I would like to confirm that this company is under receivership and the ministry is in the process of revoking its license. However, it is on record now that we have the mining license.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, what measures is the Government taking to restrain investors who have been using prospecting licenses to mine diamonds, which they have gone away with on pretext that they found nothing, and yet deposits, as proven by the Spirit of the River, are there?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that I have seen the diamonds that the Spirit of the River produced. They were alluvial and not instio diamonds.

Interruptions

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the problem that the Spirit of the River had is that for one to dispose of the production, you have to subscribe to the Kimberley process to dispose of some of the diamonds that are produced.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

REHABILITATION OF CHINSALI POLICE STATION INFRASTRUCTURE

83. Mr C. Mulenga asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when the Government last rehabilitated infrastructure such as police cells, sewer system, offices and residential houses at Chinsali Police Station; and

(b) when next the rehabilitation exercise would be carried out.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, the Chinsali Police Station offices were last rehabilitated in 2007. However, routine maintenance works at T the Station have been going on, but the current state of the sewer and residential houses, which are in the state of disrepair, has been noted.

Mr Speaker, Chinsali Police Station, like any other police station in the country, has been earmarked for major rehabilitation in the ensuing phases under the Ministry of Home Affairs Infrastructure Development Plan.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that I was written to by the ministry when I wrote to remind it the state of the camp was deteriorating. I was promised that K500 million would be released in 2008, but to date, we have not seen this money. When will this money to rehabilitate the Chinsali Police Station be released?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we, as a ministry, are, indeed, in receipt of the letter from the hon. Member complaining about the state of the infrastructure at Chinsali Police Station. If we had all the necessary resources, we could have worked on it.

As regards the money that the hon. Member has talked about, unfortunately, was not released to the ministry. We are fighting hard to find resources so that we can work on the infrastructure which is, indeed, running down.

Thank you, Sir.
Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I have noticed that the biggest constraint of this Government is that of resources. Why does it not come out in the open and tell us what is happening? The Ministry of Home Affairs was supposed to procure some bullet proof vests for the police officers, but everything has stalled because of the lack of money. Can the Government tell us where the money we approve in this House goes if it cannot be accessed from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we can all have all types of ambitions, but if one does not have money, nothing can be done. We know that we have gone through a difficult period. You know that we are not able to collect enough money from the Treasury and most of the programmes will not be implemented. You must have read about the global economic crisis. You must have heard when we talked about the poor copper prices. Those things naturally impact negatively on the Budget. However, now that the situation is stabilising, we hope that we will be able to mobilise resources and respond to some of the challenges that we are facing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mangani: As regards the acquisition of the bullet proof vests, we are in the process of acquiring them by following a certain procedure. Therefore, you have to be patient as the process is at an advanced stage.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs confirm that, in fact, the ministry has a programme for rehabilitating the police stations across the country and each area will be covered according to the programme when its time comes?

Laughter

Mr Mangani: Yes, indeed, Mr Speaker. I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge for keenly following what we are doing in the ministry.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: We have the infrastructure development plan. We have started the exercise and the programme will come to Chinsali very soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, if you look at the Yellow Book 2004/2005, there was money allocated towards the rehabilitation of police cells in the Northern Province, including Kanfinsa Prison. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where the money allocated for this cause and the rehabilitation of the sewer system is.

Mr Mangani:  The cells have been rehabilitated and can be inspected. The only problem with Chinsali is the infrastructure. The houses were built some time back, but the sewer system is not in good condition and this is a challenge that we need to address.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, the question of funding keeps coming up. Will the Government, through the Ministry of Home Affairs, confirm that we come here to waste our time to approve of Budgets that are never implemented? Would the hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You do not come here to waste anybody’s time, including yours. You come here, for among other things, to approve the Budget. You may phrase it that way.

Mr Mushili: I thank you Mr Speaker. When will this Government make Budgets that it is capable of implementing within its means?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that a question of this nature has come from a successful businessman …

Hon. PF Members: That is why he is successful.

Mr Mangani: He is aware that the K150 million allocated per year to the rehabilitation of all cells in the country is inadequate. These cells have not been attended to for a long time. K150 million cannot cover the entire infrastructure which has been run down for a long time. We need adequate funding to make sure that we attend to most of this infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, the Budget will be announced and you must look at how much you are going to give us. You, he hon. Members of Parliament, are the people who are going to give this money to us. As there is a very important need in this area, support me and give me enough money so that we spend on these challenges.

I thank you, Sir.

PERIOD OF SERVICE FOR SCHOOL MANAGERS AND TEACHERS

84. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Education whether there was any policy restriction on the period which school managers and teachers should serve in a particular school.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, there is no policy on the period that an officer is required to serve at a particular station. However, newly recruited teachers have been encouraged to serve in the schools they are deployed to for, at least, two years before they can be considered for transfer to another school.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that when some school managers and teachers overstay in stations, their output goes down?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware, but is sometimes handicapped by the lack of resources to transfer teachers anyhow.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, considering the fact that the hon. Minister has acknowledged that there is such a problem in schools, I would like to find out whether the Government has put in place any mechanism to correct the situation.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, like I said, we, as a Government, are aware, but are handicapped by the lack of finances.

FINANCIAL STATUS OF THE UNIVERSITYY OF ZAMBIA AS AT JUNE 2009

85. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Education:

(a) how much money the Government disbursed to the University of Zambia from January, 2008 to June, 2009;

(b) what the financial status of the university was as of June, 2009;

(c) when the university’s books of account were last audited; and

(d) what the audit outcome was.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the disbursement made to the University of Zambia from the Government Republic of Zambia (GRZ) between January, 2008 and June, 2009 amounted to K230,484,655,806.00 broken down as follows:

                                                       Jan to Dec 2008                       Jan to June 2009

Grants                                                 94, 966 722, 523.00               53, 483, 361, 260. 00

Outstanding Bills                                37, 341, 203, 262.00              1, 337, 251, 818. 00

Tuition and Accommodation               23, 884, 528, 600.00             16, 000, 000, 000.00

Infrastructure                                         3, 471, 588, 343.00                             -

Totals                                                     159, 664, 042, 728.00            70, 820, 613, 078.00

Grand Total                                                                                         230, 484, 655, 805.00

The disbursements made to the University of Zambia from GRZ between January, 2008 and June, 2009 amounted to K167,360,222,438 .

The financial status of the University by June, 2009 was as follows: the university had just reopened and registration had not been completed. Funds available for operational costs were K2.1 billion compared to requirements of K3.2 billion. While funds for student hostel construction amounted to K2 billion.

That last audited accounts for the university still remain at 1997. However, efforts are being made to be up to date with audited accounts of the institution.

However, as at June, 2009, the university had submitted books of accounts for the years 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2003 for audit to the Auditor-General’s Office. We have yet to receive reports of audits. Currently, the accounts for 2004 and 2005 are ready and will, accordingly, be submitted to the Auditor-General’s Office.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the books for 2005 and 2006 have been audited. The hon. Minister has further informed this House that the books of accounts for 1998 and 1999, have not been audited. Can he explain why they audited books for 2005 and 2006 when those for 1998 and 1999 had not been audited?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, in my answer, I have already indicated that these books of accounts have already been submitted to the Auditor-General’s Office for auditing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, is there any chance that this Government can consider incorporating, in their policy, that no parastatal that receives grants from the Government shall receive any money unless they have audited accounts to ensure that the funds are properly utilised?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we are doing everything possible to ensure that the books of accounts at the University of Zambia are audited. At the same time, as you may know, if we said that we are not giving money to the university because their books of accounts are not audited, the hon. Member who has requested us to consider doing so would come and raise a point order. I must say that, at the moment, we are doing everything possible to correct the situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I think the person who asked this question was asking about the policy. Is the hon. Minister aware that because of not auditing books at the university, we do not know how the money is spent? This has created a problem because people who retired as far back as 2004 have not been given anything …

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: … and yet some of the recipients of these moneys are orphans. What is your policy on that?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we aware of the difficulties the University of Zambia is facing and we are doing everything possible to rectify the situation. In fact, we are negotiating with them to see how we can reduce the problems that are being faced by the University of Zambia.

I know that the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali is a regular visitor of the University of Zambia.

Mrs Phiri: Yes, I am their Member of Parliament.

Mr Sinyinda: I can only appeal to her that, as we look into those problems, we would like to solve them amicably rather than agitating for something else.

I thank you, Sir.

________

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to join other hon. Members of Parliament who have complimented His Excellency the President for having delivered a more focused speech to the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Sir, allow me also …

Mr Beene: It is expected!

Mr Kasongo: … to salute our defence and security personnel for maintaining peace and security in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: We are humbled by their support and loyalty. I would like to call upon all peace-loving Zambians to emulate the example of our defence and security personnel.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, in the same breath, allow me to condemn, in no uncertain terms, the ambassadors of instability, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: … the ambassadors of hatred, people who would like to ruin this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, peace, once lost, cannot be found anywhere. We have learnt lessons from other countries which have lost peace completely. Those who like to incite people everyday to demonstrate or create anarchy in our country must be told that they will be the first casualties.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, violence has no boundary.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Even those who initiate and instigate violence are caught up on the same plane.

Mr Speaker, Zambians are looking for development and not instability.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Kasongo: Zambians are looking for clean water and not instability.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Zambians are looking for better services to be provided by the Government of the day and not instability in our country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: We have to remind all those people who would like to make shortcuts to State House, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo:  … that they should wait.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear, tell them!

Mr Kasongo: Zambians have agreed that the best avenue of ascending to power is through the ballot box …

Hon. Members: Hear, hears!

Mr Kasongo: … and nothing else.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: They have to wait for their time if they are convinced beyond reasonable doubt that they have a following.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Tamwaishi ku cita debate imwe uko!

Mr Kasongo: Why should they begin courting sleepless nights to our defence and security personnel spend? Why should they do that?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kasongo: They should answer that question themselves. Where are we going to take our children when the same instigators of instability succeed in one way or another?

   Progressive Zambians must team up and make these people understand that Zambia belongs to all of us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: We should not share their misinformed opinions. If they are capable of ruling this country, let them wait for 2011. There are no shortcuts about it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: Yanfwa, waumfwa?

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I must confess that I have been a Catholic from the time I was born which is almost sixty years now. I have never, at any time, heard a preacher or a priest preaching hatred. They always preach peace. Why should some of our priests change the language and incite people to begin killing each other when they are at the altar? We cannot allow such a situation.

Mr Mukanga: Sichilima!

Mr Kasongo: Our role is to make sure that we maintain peace and stability and make the same tools to develop our country.

Sir, much has been talked about in terms of corruption. I would like to compliment the Head of State for launching the Anti-Corruption Policy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: This is going to act as a basis on which the Anti-Corruption Commission will fight corruption. We would like to make sure that this policy is implemented by legitimate structures such as the Anti-Corruption Commission. We should get rid of these illegitimate structures. They are creating problems for the Anti-Corruption Commission. What are we waiting for?

Mr Speaker, the fight against corruption is an on-going process and I am happy about this. I can speak on behalf of the people of Bangweulu Constituency and the all progressive Zambians that the policy that has been launched is in the right direction and is very timely. There are a number of people who have been making a lot of allegations that the Government of the day is not fighting corruption. To the contrary, the fight against corruption begins at individual, family and community level.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I would like to say here that some of the leaders who are accusing the President that he is not keen on fighting corruption are aware that they have turned their political parties into public limited companies for the purposes of generating revenue for their families …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: … and there is no accountability. We have heard of so many reports. You would be surprised to see how much money these people get, but there is no accountability. Even within the same systems, when some hon. Members try to find out how much money they had collected and how it had been spent, they are given marching orders. What is going to happen if now, they cannot account for the resources that they are getting from both external and internal courses if they cannot account for this amount of money? What guarantee is there that when they are sent to power, they will account for the same amount of money?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Charity begins at home. These political parties have become public limited companies which are only generating revenue for their families. After elections, you will see them buying vehicles for their families. Where is accountability in these parties and yet they are accusing the Banda Administration of lack of accountability? What about in their own parties? Shame!

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo: There must be same reflection whenever you speak your mind. You must be seen to be a man of integrity. All Zambians know about the resources that you get from both external and internal sources. If you do not account for the money, why should you stand up and say that the Banda Administration is weak? What about the resources that you have been accumulating? Come 2011, you will see how they will be moving from one place to another, collecting money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: By the end of the day, they will utilise the resources. Some of them do not even give even one ngwee to their parliamentary candidates and Councillors. I am talking from experience. Parliamentary candidates sponsor themselves through and through. I sponsored myself and nobody gave me a single ngwee from the party and they are saying that they can control me. Control who?

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, on the part of the economy, economic development is a continuous process. There is no way we can accuse the Government of the day of having done nothing in terms of economic development, unless, we are misplaced in terms of thinking. As Parliamentarians, we have seen how our constituencies have developed. Hospitals and roads are being constructed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Kasongo: Schools are being maintained and evidence is there for everybody to see. Yet, you can stand up and say that this Government has done nothing. No, that is done out of hatred simply because you have been wanting to go to State House and you have failed. Now, you want to turn around and say the only way you can get into power is by making shortcuts. Progressive Zambians who have been conditioned to peace for almost forty-four years now and they cannot allow that. There is no way you can allow an individual to come and grab that peace from all of us. All of us are going to stand up and say no to instability. The best place for those people who are instigating others to start violence in our country, is hell.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That place is unknown in this House. Can you withdraw the word.

Mr Kasongo: I withdraw the word, “hell”, Mr Speaker. What I am trying to say is that I appeal to our colleagues who like inciting violence in this country to be aware of the fact that they will be caught up in the same plane. I can tell you that economic development is a continuous process. America and Britain, which are developed countries are still developing. Therefore, what is so special about Zambia that we cannot face the problems that other countries are facing? The funny part of it is that even the converted intellectuals in other political parties, who are aware of the economic crisis globally, will ignore that fact and stand up in this House and say that this Government has done nothing. If America and Britain are affected by this crisis, what is so special about Zambia? What is important is for us to resolve and to rise to the occasion and not to lose hope. That is all. That is how Britain and America succeed. With our problems, it is a passing phase. From 2011 or so, we will be talking about something different.

Sir, the other aspect relates to a popular term being referred to as 2011. Yes, 2011 is coming and that is the best avenue we are going to use. I would like to let my colleagues who speak the loudest know that in 2011, there will be a lot of happiness and sadness …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: … because at the individual level, some of us may not be adopted by our respective parties.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: You will be vetoed by your own party. I can actually foresee a situation where some of our colleagues, who will be vetoed, become more frustrated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Therefore, take your time. My advice to you is that you should prepare for the future sufficiently. You do not know what 2011 holds for you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Do not be excited about 2011.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: You may end up on the street. Prepare your future between now and 2011.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: If you fail, your exit will be disastrous.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Secondly, I would like to appeal to progressive Zambians out there to begin vetting presidential candidates now because 2011 will be very interesting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Let us look at the qualities of all the presidential aspirants.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I do not have any presidential ambition because I am more comfortable and proud to be associated with Bangweulu Constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: That is where my heart is …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: …and will continue to be.

I, however, would like to invite Zambians to begin vetting presidential candidates. Let us be persuaded by the characters of the presidential aspirants.  Are they sober minded and democratic people? We have to look at all these qualities. Have they the potential to develop this country or are they just exciting people by creating mountains out of molehills. These qualities are important.

Mr Speaker, I would like to add one more quality. Whether we will be talking about female or male presidential candidates, there is another quality that is very important that has been used in other countries. The features of a presidential candidate matter a lot.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: The moment you elect an ugly person to State House, …

Laughter

Mr Kasongo:  …I can assure you that we will fail to attract investment.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: It is one of the qualities that a number of developed countries have been using. This is a person who is going to be an ambassador. He will be interacting with heads of States from other countries. He will be able to attract investment if the features are good. Other people will just be looking at him and saying, “Mama, mama, what a leader”.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: They will be asking themselves if you are really Zambian and thinking to themselves, “If such a person comes from Zambia, what do the other Zambians look like”.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, let me use my remaining three minutes to support the President for having removed crop levy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: The problem that we have is that sometimes when we say that crop levy should be maintained, we forget that it is because of the party. Some of the political parties, in their manifestos, have been saying more money in the pocket and less taxes. The President has removed tax …

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: …and now they are quarreling.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: This is the problem of having parties with leaders who have gone to the convention and others who have not even seen a convention.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I rest my case.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Quality!

Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have spoken before me on the President’s Speech.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The House will settle down.

Laughter

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, the speech, which was presented in this House, did not inspire me and most Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: The speech lacked vision.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: It did not give solutions to the problems that the Zambian people are facing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, this Government is specialised in theory.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: The practical part is lacking.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: We have heard too many Government assurances in this House, some of which have not been met. Very few have been met. 

Mr Speaker, this is a Government which calls itself a working Government. It annoys people when you call yourselves a working Government when you are not.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I will look at very few issues. The first issue I want to look at is unemployment. The issue of unemployment should have been declared a national disaster by this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: It is a wish of every parent in Zambia that their children get employed after graduating from college or university. Our children are just roaming the streets and you call yourselves a working Government. You should be ashamed of this.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: A very small percentage of Zambians are in the working class. The percentage of the working class is very minimal and you call yourselves a working Government. Hon Kasongo said that you have done things and they are being seen. To the contrary, I have not seen anything.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Truly, under this Government, getting employment in Zambia is a luxury.

Hon. Government Member: Wear spectacles.

Laughter

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, we are told that the mines have 58,000 direct jobs in formal employment and that this employment figure is likely to increase as exploration activities and expansion in existing mines materialise. Who is going to be employed? Is it the Zambians, Indians or Chinese?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, the Chinese and Indians are getting people from their own countries and bringing them here at the expense of Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to look at forest reserves. This Government has forest reserves on paper. If you go out there, the forest reserves you have been talking about are not there.

Mr Mwenya: They are non-existent.

Mrs Banda: It is very saddening, and yet you say that you have people on the ground checking on these things.

The forest reserves have been encroached and are depleted. The question you should be asking yourselves is why is this so? People have not been working because you have not given them jobs. They are now specialised in charcoal burning. You have failed to control the situation. You should control the situation after you have created another means of earning a living.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: People have to have bread and butter on their table. How can you talk about encroachment and depletion when you have not given them jobs? Everyone is specialised in charcoal burning even in provinces where there this was not there before. They have to find money to feed themselves.

Mr Speaker, at one time, in Luanshya, people were not working and it was terrible. Even the workers who were put there by the Government to check on the forest reserves were almost beaten for chasing away people who were burning charcoal. You cannot blame these people. Where are they going to get money from? Find jobs for them, and they will stop charcoal burning.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Words of wisdom.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about health. I have already mentioned that you are very specialised in theory and promises. 

Mr Mwenya: Now you are toning down.

Mrs Banda: People in Chililabombwe have been waiting to see what is done with regard to the construction of a district hospital.

 Interruptions

Mr Banda: Please, do not disturb me.

Sir, we have been denied of a Government district hospital in Chililabombwe. The population in this area is over 110,000. People have to travel to Chingola to access medical services. Surely, are we supposed to be pleading for the hospital from this Government yet, this Government has been getting a lot of revenue from Chililabombwe? This Government can afford to have bread and butter on theirs tables because of the mines which are in Chililabombwe, and yet you have denied us of a hospital. There are serious cases which have to be referred to Chingola. It is quite a long distance between Chililabombwe and Chingola.

Mr V. Mwale: Cry!

Mrs Banda:   I am crying deep down my heart. A hospital should have been given to us without us complaining year in and year out. There is a lot of revenue this Government has been getting from Chililabomwe through the mines, but nothing much is being done for the people of Chililabombwe.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda:  I hope Hon. Simbao is listening so that maybe, he can fulfill what he promised us here.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I would like to talk about is that of hearses. Actually, this Government has been a laughingstock to most Zambians. If you had given us ambulances first, we would be very happy. It looks like you people are promoting death, hence you brought in hearses.

 Hon. P F Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda:  When you brought the two hearses to Chililabombwe, people were very mad about it. They expected ambulances to come first before the hearses. If you do not see any logic in that, it is you who is a problem. Had you consulted us as hon. Members of Parliament, we would have told you that we preferred ambulances to hearses.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Banda:  All I can say is that you have been a laughingstock. Had you bought ambulances instead of hearses, people would have been very happy. You would have had a pat on the back.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Bring back the hearses.

Mr Banda: You can come and get them. As for the people of Chililabombwe, we are still waiting for ambulances to come.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 Mrs Banda: We are still waiting for ambulances. Even if you say, “aah!” we need them. What we know is that health is more important. When someone dies, that person is finished. We do not want people to use the hearses which you are making people pay K300,000 for. Who is going to afford such an amount?

Mr Speaker, let me mention one thing I found disappointing in the President’s Speech. The President talked about the road network on the Copperbelt, and yet there was no mention of any road being worked on, in the urban Copperbelt. Surely, is that normal when you rely on the Copperbelt to run this nation? Miners have been suffering for you and you have been bringing in money and you cannot even give them a single road. What do you mean?

Mr Speaker, we are very disappointed with this Government. You should think about the road network on the Copperbelt in the next Budget.

Hon. Government Members: There is Lumwana!

Mrs Banda: Lumwana cannot feed the whole nation. You have received a lot from the Copperbelt. Therefore, you should accept that. Even the salaries that you get are from the Copperbelt.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mrs Banda: I still want to talk about Chililabombwe which houses the Konkola Deep Mining and other mines which bring a lot revenue to this country. When miners are travel from their homes to the mines during shifts at night, they do not move safely because there a lot of potholes which you should have worked on.

 Hon. Government Members: We are a working Government.

Mrs Banda: What work?  Come and work on the roads in Chililabombwe and people are going to appreciate you. You should come and work on the roads on the entire Copperbelt and people will appreciate you. Maybe, they can give you the vote which you are looking for in 2011, but as far as I know, Copperbelt is a no play area.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: You do not have anything there except for the bush constituencies.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: That is where you will find votes. Forget about the urban part of the Copperbelt.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I did not wish to interrupt the hon. Member who is debating badly. Is she in order to call some parts of this country bush when this House does not know of any bush constituency? I need your serious ruling because Zambians are listening.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office is drawing the attention of the hon. Member for Chililabombwe to the fact that according to the Constitution, all constituencies in Zambia are weighted equally. There is no bush constituency and there is no clear constituency so to speak.

The hon. Member for Chililabombwe will take note and debate matters which are before the House.

May you continue, please.

Mrs Banda: Sir, I would like to thank you for the guidance. I was talking about Chipangali Constituency where Hon. V. Mwale comes from.

Laughter

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I still want to emphasise on the roads. The people on the Copperbelt want the road between Kitwe and Chingola to be worked on. We have been pleading with this Government to make this road a dual carriageway. There are a lot of deaths due to accidents on this road. Not only PF members but also MMD members die on the same road.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: The Government should look into the roads in the urban part of the Copperbelt seriously.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, I wish to pay tribute to the hon. Members who have spoken before me in support of the President’s Speech delivered to this House on Friday, 18th September, 2009. The speech is very inspiring and gives hope to our country. It was a unifying speech, non-political and very accommodating even to the most difficult hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, in this speech, as I have described, the President showed, as usual, his exceptional leadership qualities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: It is for this reason that some colleagues in the Opposition, who think that their job is merely to oppose, had difficulty tearing down such a wonderful speech.

   I observed that it was uncommon for such Members to abandon the actual speech which was delivered instead they chose to debate on what was not in the speech. For example, one Member spent time talking about Kusefya pa Ng’wena.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Even when he was advised to come back to speech, he was still insisting and continued talking about the ceremony.

Obviously, if the President covered these same areas they would have wanted debate on the areas that he had actually covered in the speech. His speech encompassed not only the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) objectives but also the “National Long-Term Vision 2030 for Zambia” to become a prosperous middle income country by the year 2030. There was no need to specifically mention these as the guiding principles as these are a way of living. These are our policies and so we do not need to specially state that we are now talking about the objectives in the FNDP or that we are talking about the Vision 2030.

Sir, the Presidential Speech was giving the policy direction which the country should go for the year 2010 and beyond. Let us not forget that all of us gathered here in this august House are leaders.

Therefore, when you talk about poverty of leadership, look at yourself. You are part of the leadership. When your ideas are taken on board just as when they are rejected, but noted, note that they are seen as useful. Do not be discouraged if those ideas are rejected. We should find answers to economic problems that the country is going through in the light of the global economic melt down. If you pull down the MMD Government by giving negative speeches you are also pulling yourself down.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Let us provide answers rather than merely throwing questions to the Executive. I thank those Members in the Opposition who endeavour to provide answers. However, please, do not boast when your ideas are taken on board. Such an attitude may have negative consequences.

Mr Speaker, I wish to turn to the issue of governance. The MMD Government under the able leadership of His Excellency Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda is committed to the fight against corruption.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Chilembo: It is in this light that the announcement by the President in his speech that the Government will establish a serious frauds unit to investigate complex corruption cases …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: … is a most welcome development. In addition, he also talked about the establishment of an financial intelligence transaction unit. As if this was not enough and as a mark of transparency in Government, he announced that they will be a forensic system that should be developed and audits shall be undertaken in all major spending ministries, province and agencies.

Mr Speaker, this Government has nothing to hide. This is why the unfortunate loss of money at Ministry of Health is a battle that is vigorously being pursued. The Government does not condone stealing of public funds. Let those who may be planning on doing the same be warned that with the measures alluded to above the law will visit them should they try to execute their intentions. They will be no scared cows.

Corruption is a cancer when it inflicts its victim it spreads and causes misery including death. The suffering is across the political divide. Therefore, this fight is not only for MMD Government, but all political parties and our citizens as well. No single person, institution or political party can win this fight. We need to work together.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Under the Anti-Corruption Policy, established institutions es will work in a coordinated manner to kill this vice. Let us all support these efforts and institutions that will be established under the Anti-Corruption Policy.

Mr Speaker, for the fight against corruption to succeed, it is important that constitutional provisions are respected. The presumption of innocence until the contrary is proved in a court of law is key. Respect for the verdict – whether it is a verdict of guilt or innocence. The defence lawyers also should be allowed to do their work without interference. This applies to the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) under Article 56 (7) of the Constitution which provides:

“In exercise of the powers conferred on him by this Article, the Director of Public Prosecutions shall not be subject to the direction or control of any other person or authority”

Note that ‘any person or authority’ does not just refer to government officials, but includes private members in their individual capacities or organisations.

Mr Speaker, justice is not a matter of mere public acclaim. It must be based on the rule of law.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: It is healthy that members of the public should comment on the outcome of cases in our courts of law. However, when this is done, it is important that it is based on an informed position. One basic area which begs understanding is the distinction between civil and criminal cases. In criminal cases, one is said to be found guilty if the charges against him or her are proved. In civil cases, one is found liable if the claim against him is proved. The proof required in criminal matters is beyond reasonable doubt while in civil cases it is based on a balance of probability that is to say, what is more likely than who will take the blame. In criminal cases any doubt is resolved in favour of the accused. Therefore, it is possible that in a criminal case, you could be found guilty and based on the same facts in a civil case there would be a different verdict. For example, in the O. J. Simpson case, where in a criminal case he was not found guilty of the murder case, but was found liable in a civil case. The distinction why that can arise though the facts were the same is that in the criminal case the standard of proof required is that which proves beyond reasonable doubt while as the other one is on a balanced probability. So, if you are found liable in a civil case, you are not necessarily guilty under a criminal case.

If members of the public want to know the stage of a case in a civil case, they are at liberty to conduct searches in our registries. There is transparency. You just pay a little fee and you will be able to find the stage at which a particular case has reached. Therefore, when you comment, it is important that you are commenting based on a search you have conducted. It will not do to comment that a case is delayed and there are a lot of accusations on the advocates at the Ministry of Justice, when you have not even checked the records at court. Therefore, issues of delayed cases are matters which you can easily establish yourself by conducting a search at our civil registries.

Mr Speaker, I now wish to talk about the media. The President in his Speech commended those radio and television stations that conduct themselves in an ethical manner in conducting their duties. It is clear from his speech that the President believes in professional journalism. However, professionalism cannot be achieved without regulation. Regulation here means self-regulation. Journalists are invited to take advantage of the invitation by Government that they should discuss ways of enhancing self-regulation. I am aware of resistance by a certain section of the media who are resisting this rule. They feel that the existing laws under defamation laws are sufficient. I am afraid that those are not adequate to deal with the professional media that we are talking about. We are looking for a specific regulatory media law that will deal …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was advancing a point that we are looking for a specific regulatory media law that will deal with the conduct of its members on upholding professionalism in the media.

Mr Speaker, the law that would punish ailing members for unprofessional conduct is the type of law that we are looking for. The Law Association of Zambia is an example of how a profession can regulate itself and still remain a powerful and relevant institution. The prevailing situation in the media is unfortunate because members of the public are not protected. Are those members of our society who are defamed everyday by a newspaper also expected to sue everyday? Can one afford  to be in court everyday? These are the issues that our colleagues in the media are invited to reflect on.

Mr Speaker, I urge the media to choose to regulate themselves now or they will be regulated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Iwe lawyer ushawinapo umulandu.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, we have heard very constructive contributions from some of the hon. Members and I note that the President in his speech stated that twenty-seven Bills were considered in the last session. I wish to join him in commending Parliament through the hon. Mr Speaker for the support that the Bills received.

Mr Speaker, on the part of the Ministry of Justice, we shall continue playing our role of drafting these Bills. Hon. Hamududu raised issues relating to marketing agricultural produce. Your submission was noted and as a ministry, we think it is a matter we can take up to consider for legislation in conjunction with the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, but it is subject to the observation by Hon. Kasongo whose advice will also be considered.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I wish to end on a none controversial item which is the Constitutional Review process.

Mr Speaker, the President noted that the National Constitutional Conference has made progress. He expressed the desire that the NCC should conclude its business soon. The prophets of doom thought that the NCC would be a failure. The prophets of doom had alleged that the Government may manipulate the process. The prophets of doom had suggested that the NCC was for the MMD party, but what we have seen is to the contrary. We have seen a nationalist spirit exhibited by the members of the NCC.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, the debates have been on none party lines. We have heard people even within the Government taking different views in the interest of the nation. There is no manipulation. Equally, people in the Opposition are also giving their own personal viewpoints. Most of the decisions at the NCC are made through a consensus.

Mr Speaker, I have made up my mind that Zambians will have a constitution that will stand the taste of time. We, therefore, call upon all the doubting Thomases to join us in this cause. When the NCC report will be made available to the public for their comments, we hope that those who have so far kept a low profile will come in the open and participate by making their comments.

Mr Speaker, I now take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson of the NCC, Hon. Chifumu Kingdom Banda, SC., Member of Parliament for Chasefu for ably chairing the proceedings. 
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I also commend the hon. Members for their exemplary conduct because there has been no disciplinary case since we started sitting. This is how it should be. We know that such a record is envied by the prophets of doom who want the process to fail. As sure as the sun shines, a new constitution is coming very soon. I agree with hon. E.C. Mwansa whom I had the pleasure of listening to on radio as I was travelling from Livingstone on national duty, when he submitted that even those who are trying to keep away will be governed by this Constitution when we pass it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: I agree with him because that will be the case. I thank the Parliamentary Reforms which helped me a lot by giving me the opportunity to listen to proceedings whilst travelling. Progressive clauses have been passed at the NCC. One includes the requirement that for one to stand as hon. Member of Parliament, they ought to attain Grade 12 qualifications or its equivalent. I know that when we talk on the issue of qualifications, it worries some of our people.

Interruptions

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, if the qualifications of an hon. Member of Parliament is at the level of Grade 12, what do you expect for a President?

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: I would suggest that it is never too late for those of our colleagues who may not have these qualifications to start night school so that before 2011, they get the required qualifications. The idea is to be inclusive.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Chilembo: In this House we have seen Hon. Kapeya and Hon. Chitika-Molobeka getting degrees. It was never late for them.

Mr Kambwili: Talk about Hon. Mwangala.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, we should learn from that. Hon. Mwangala is listening, I am sure.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge hon. Members to continue serving our people well. We should not be putting our political agendas first, but Zambians should come first. We should give the Zambians a better life and I believe that is the purpose for which we all gather here everyday and that is the reason we decided to stand for elections so that we could serve the people of Zambia. The speech by the President in a nutshell was simply talking about service to Zambians. How can anybody in his right mind oppose such a speech? I end by saying that Zambia shall prosper.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Lawyer wabula ukuwina umulandu.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for according me this opportunity to make my contribution to the debate on the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I will begin by adding my voice to those of the many before me who rose to commend the speech by His Excellency the President Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, which was directional, inspirational and which touched on all the salient matters which are critical for the development of our country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the speech is by design, an exposition of public policy and for those who were looking for a detailed report listing item by item of a plethora of issues , they are clearly misguided and no doubt would be disappointed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
RRR Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, as hon. Members of this esteemed House, we are all privileged to have the opportunity to serve the Zambian people …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: … and to do so …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

 I would like to follow the debate by the hon. Deputy Minister. May the House pay attention.

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We should do so with a high sense of commitment and dedication as we strive to deliver economic and social development.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, this means we are to be focussed, analytical and constructive in our approach if we are to truly discharge our mandate. The Presidential speech touched many important priority areas, but I will limit my contribution to economic management. The President’s address pointed out that we, as a country, had managed to weather the storm of the global financial crisis better than most had anticipated, with the most negative impact being felt in the mining sector, and less severe impact in tourism and other sectors.

The banking and financial sector faired well with no closure of a single major financial institution. On the contrary, we have seen the entry of new banks in the market, confirming the confidence that such players have in our economy. Credit must be given where it is due, especially from those prophets of doom who had little or no confidence in our ability to manage the financial crisis.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: The economy still registered growth, albeit at a reduced rate and other macro-economic indicators maintained relative stability, with inflation dropping to the current 13 per cent. With increased copper production and recovery in prices, we must now position ourselves to take advantage of improvement in the world economy. The main components of our strategy are:

(i) A scaling up of efforts to promote economic diversification, with emphasis on the agriculture, tourism and manufacturing sectors.

(ii) Speedy implementation of measures to reduce the cost of doing business in order to make our investment climate more competitive.

(iii) Promotion of a growth enabling environment while addressing the constraints to broad based economic growth.

Mr Speaker, the President stated in his speech and I quote, “The year 2010 will go down our annals of history as the year in which my administration implemented the change in the Budget Cycle”. This significant action is a practical response by this working Government to enhance budget execution and monitoring which will enable Government projects to start much earlier in the financial year and ensure, among other things, a more efficient system of project implementation.

Mr Speaker, I must state, here, that I am surprised that the significance of this change is lost on some hon. Members on your left. Allow me to correct an impression given in an earlier debate that the financial year was changing from 1st April to 31st March, but rather that the financial year remains the same from 1st January to 31st December and that what has, in fact, changed is the timing of the presentation and consideration of the budget.

Mr Speaker, it is therefore, not only alarming but also ironic that the same hon. Member who was questioning the abilities of Members on this side of the House is clearly not aware of the significance of this important change in cycle.

Mr Speaker, I also question the insistence and failure to understand, by some hon. Members on your left, that the mere approval of funding in the budget for a project is not an automatic guarantee that funds will be available to undertake the project. This is more so in this particular year. With the negative impact of the global financial crisis, it was inevitable that our budget performance would be negatively impacted as ably explained in this House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning earlier this year, as we reviewed the half year budget performance. The early part of the 2009 fiscal year, has been characterised by significant challenges in terms of meeting the programmed revenue and expenditure targets mainly due to the slowdown in the global and domestic economy. Clearly, this has indications for planned project execution.

Mr Speaker, in addition to the change in the Budget Cycle, the MMD Government is poised to implement further measures to enhance economic management. This will encompass budgetary resource management, including financial management, planning and accountability. Some areas to be addressed and mentioned in the Presidential speech include:

(a) Enhanced legal framework in the budgetary and planning process.

(b) Implementation of a public debt management strategy.

(c) Commitment to the achievement of the vision 2030 through successive national development plans.

Mr Speaker, in addition, this working Government has enacted the regulatory framework to support public-private partnership ventures in infrastructure development, thereby leveraging the limited public funding and tapping into the vast resource of private sector funding. This will no doubt accelerate the pace of infrastructure development and release more public funding for other social sector development.

Mr Speaker, the only real solution to the many problems facing our country is sustainable and real economic growth. The current position, as pointed out by the President in his speech, where half the domestic revenue is spent on remuneration of the Government workforce, is a clear indication that our current economic activities are a long way from the position where these resources are capable of supporting all of our infrastructure and other developmental requirements. Our focus, therefore, should be serious commitment to support all efforts and ideas which are aimed at supporting strategies which foster economic and social development. These include the development of farm blocks, multi facility economic zones and industrial parks, infrastructure development to support investment promotion.

Mr Speaker, commitment to working together to bring about this economic growth is cardinal. We have all pledged to serve the Zambian people to the best of our ability. Let us become contributors and not detractors, supportive instead of being divisive, building, instead of tearing down, offering constructive advice as opposed to attacking all proposals at every given opportunity.

Mr Speaker, all of us have been mandated to play a critical role in the governance of this nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This role, I believe, is not a right but a privilege, an opportunity to serve, a chance to contribute and make a real difference in the many issues that affect the Zambian people in all aspects of their livelihood.

Mr Speaker, now is not the time to focus only on politicking to the detriment of national development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: The Zambian people expect much more from us as leaders of this nation. Now is not the time to squander this opportunity to make a real contribution to the shaping of progress and development in our country.

Mr Speaker, our founding fathers fought for our political freedom and independence from colonial rule.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: They sacrificed their time, sweat, blood and even their lives. Their expectation was that we, as their successors, would then focus on economic and social development. We sing our national anthem everyday in this House and I wonder how many of us stop to reflect on the vision of our fore fathers.

Hon. Government Member: They are very few, you see.

Laughter

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Are we advocating dignity, peace, work and unity under the Zambian sky or are our actions of politicking, name calling and insults at variance with that vision?

Mr Speaker, we can stand here today and be proud of those gallant men and women, who brought about our freedom because they had a unity of purpose.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: We can stand here today and say and believe that they put service before self …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: … thereby displaying true patriotism. Let us ask ourselves the question: What will our children be able to say about us?

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Let us not squander this opportunity to serve. Let us rise to the challenge and focus on real issues of national development because, in the final analysis, only we can determine the destiny of our country.

Mr Speaker, after all, if we foster a nation of growing disrespect, negativity and mistrust, it will be to the detriment of not just our generation, but we may end up fostering a very negative environment which does not support harmony and collective effort.

What country disparages its own tenets of authority; the Executive, Judiciary and, indeed, the Legislature? In Bemba we say, “mwikala patalala mwine apatalalika”, meaning only we, ourselves, can create and influence the environment that we live in to be peaceful and harmonious. Are we prepared to be the generation that is destructive rather than constructive? That would, indeed, be a very sad indictment on all of us.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to point out that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government’s overall objectives, as defined in the short, medium and, indeed, long term developmental plans, remain on course. We remain focused on sustained macroeconomic stability, promotion of economic diversification and the enhancement of competitiveness of the Zambian economy to underpin and support our efforts in poverty reduction, economic and social development, wealth creation and attainment of the millennium development goals (MDGs).

National development plans will continue to focus on key strategic areas such as agriculture, infrastructure development, health, education and skills development among others. The plans also promote public spending on strengthening the relevant economic and social infrastructure, especially roads, schools and hospitals and enhancing agriculture and rural development.

The President, in his speech, called upon all stakeholders to fully participate in the formulation of the Sixth National Development Plan. It is, indeed, the duty of every well-meaning Zambian to respond positively to this call and thereby participate in the development of our country.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me end with a quote from Adlai E. Stevenson which should help us to reflect on our actions and focus on what is of importance:

“Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.”

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I am very grateful, once again, for allowing me to debate the Motion on the Floor as raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, Hon. Mwapela, on the speech delivered by His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Banda, at the opening of this Session of Parliament. I want to join in sincerely expressing condolences to the families of our gallant late Hon. Tetamashimba babukwe, meaning my mulamu and, of course, Hon. Hamir.

Mr Speaker, I think that the need to develop this country is absolute. We are resolved as partners in development even in a dispensation of politics that is defined as multi-party Therefore, in my comments today, I do not intend to be confrontational or sensational but straight to the point and, obviously, within the bounds of what the President delivered on that day.

Mr Speaker, on economic management, the President made a few comments and I picked up one where he indicated - and the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning sort of echoed what the President said - to the effect that he was happy that financial institutions where resilient and they did not fold amid the global economic downturn. I found this to be a very fundamental statement but I wish the President  had gone ahead to indicate, also, that Zambia is one of the few countries on this continent whose interest rates are unbearable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, as echoed by the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning, we have seen the mushrooming of commercial banks in this country and I think it makes business sense for them to come to this country because they know the interest rates on lending that they enjoy. They also know the interest rates they give to depositors. In case the hon. Minister requires to be reminded, the commercial banks in this country go as far as 35 per cent on lending and yet, on deposits the maximum they go is probably two per cent, thereby leaving a wide spread of about 33 per cent. I do not see the merit of what one would term prudent fiscal and monetary management of an economy. Even in economies that are doing well, their governments cannot comfortably borrow. In economies where people are living comfortably it is because they get bank loans. For a house, they go and get a loan from the bank and pay it over, maybe, thirty years.

Mr Speaker, we have a problem here. In this country, we have a terrible credit reference record and it begins with the Government. If you looked at the Government’s balance sheet, you would find out that the Government has never been a good debtor. It defaults and this trickles down to its citizens. Unfortunately, the ratio of the Zambian population that is in formal employment that can walk into a bank, present their payslips or title deeds is only but a fraction of the total population.  We are talking about 100,000 against 13 million people. This is nothing to be proud of. I understand Ecobank and the First National Bank (FNB) have now come to Zambia but it is because they enjoy high interest lending rates in this country which they do not enjoy in the countries where they come from.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: So, I think that as we develop this country we need to be extremely mindful of the few comments that I am making.

Mr Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry is here. He is a man whom I think is upright and believes in what he says. I also believe in what I say and that is why I am very comfortable standing here talking to him. Hon. Mutati has been singing day in and out about Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) as a way to alleviate poverty among our people. I agree with him but can he tell me how many of these potential SMEs on the Lusaka Stock Exchange (LuSE) are able to collect loans to conduct business of any form? I think the answer is very negligible.

I also understand that there is the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) that is offering, maybe, plus or minus 12 per cent interest on loans. It is still unaffordable but to add insult to injury, the process of obtaining a loan from CEEC is so tedious, cumbersome and almost as good as getting a loan at 35 per cent interest. I would like this Government to demonstrate to us how many citizens have benefited from the CEEC.  Then, it can use that as an example to say that this programme is successful.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning also spoke about the working documents that we have in this country; the Vision 2030 and Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). She did not mention the Mid-Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) and, indeed, the annual Budget. It is important for this Government to create synergies between these working documents. It is best for this Government to actually demonstrate how it intends to arrive at the objectives of all these documents. They need to harmonise …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order, over there!

Mr Nkombo: They need to harmonise the annual Budget, MTEF, and appraise the FNDP and see whether or not the trajectories will reach them into Vision 2030. I am praying to God that I will be alive in 2030, to see whether we will manage to be a medium income generating country.

I think that at the pace we are going, this is a pipe dream. I have no doubt in my mind, like I said in my preamble, that we have a duty to develop this country and we, from your left, have a duty to ensure that the hon. Members who are charged with governance, on your right, are moving at a desirable pace. Like one hon. Minister alluded to development being a continuous process, we do not expect the Government to bring wrong, today, but there has to be practical steps that everyone can appreciate to see that we are moving in tandem and in one national vision to be able to get to these working documents that they prepare.

Mr Speaker, while on the economic front, I want to address the issues of the multi-facility economic zone (MFEs). I think it was said before that the MFEs are welcome although they are misplaced. The way this Government has agreed to structure locations of these MFEs leaves much to be desired. What it actually does is to promote rapid which is already out of control, urbanisation of our people on depressed city and Lusaka is one example. It cannot handle its water and sanitary needs. I saw the industrial park in one of the Budget Speeches that the late President presented, may his soul rest peace, presented and there was no indication that these colleagues of ours who are coming either from Malaysia or China are also going to embark on building low cost houses for our people to live in with running water. What is an industry where people are coming from ram shackles?

In as much as we appreciate that employment will be created, it is disappointing to see people work from 0800 hours up to 1700 hours going to homes where they are not so certain whether when they wake up the following morning the roof would not have collapsed on them.

Mr Speaker, the President also spoke about issues of governance and I want to dwell on this a little bit more than the issues of economy; and, please, I beg for the hon. Members to bear with me that we know he referred to the millennium challenge co-operation. I went to State House with my colleague, Hon. Lubinda, to witness the launch of the Millennium Challenge Account for this country. One of the pre-requisites of eligibility to benefit from this account is the tenet of democracy and good governance. Unfortunately, what I see within the movement for multi-party democracy (MMD) is the opposite of that and it is plain for everyone to see that currently the ruling intraparty democracy is so important to show a shining example of how you intend to govern the country. However, what we see now is that Hon. Mpombo, I saw him, but I think he has walked out, and Hon. Magande are subjects of discussion everyday because they want to exercise their rights to run for the presidency …

Mr Speaker: Order! Do not debate yourselves. Leave those two hon. Members alone.

Mr Nkombo: I withdraw the two embattled hon. Members alone.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, intra-party democracy, which culminates into inter-party democracy, is a pre-requisite for qualification on the benefit of the Millennium Challenge Account. What we see, here, is a different story and I want the hon. Members of the Ruling Party to search their souls to find out whether they practice true democracy. At the moment, we know that the provinces are resisting a scheme where people are saying there shall be no convention within this named party.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Yet, this party claims to be democratic, what of a qualification of the Millennium Challenge Account is investing in people, what I see here is that there is no investment going to local Zambians, priority is always given to foreigners. I have a case in mind, in my own constituency in Mazabuka Central, a gallant constituency, where people have been living under extreme difficulties because of decisions that were made by this Government, the people of Mugoto. The people of Mugoto only 70 kilometres away from here where we are sitting are living in difficulties. We all know we will not sing the song again and appreciate the efforts that has been taken by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and his colleagues from the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to re-open the mine. I want them to go one step further to make sure that this translates into job creation for the local people first and then look at the expertise later. It should be a deliberate policy of the Government to see to it, for any job that does not require skills, that the local people who where affected by the displacement get the first option of employment.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Then it will be making sense. In the current situation, through you, Sir, Hon. Mutati, please mark that and try and resolve that matter for the people of Mugoto.

Mr Mutati indicated assent.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would also now like to touch a bit on agriculture. I am so astonished that one hon. Colleague from a fishing area must come and say he supports the misdirected, in my view, again, position that crop levy must be abolished.

Mr Speaker, I want to speak about Mazabuka …

Mr D. Mwila: It is not only Mazabuka!

Mr Nkombo: … every year, Mazabuka has got commercial farmers as well as subsistence farmers. In Mazabuka, we grow cotton, wheat, sugar cane, maize and so many crops. Therefore, I want the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to understand that this is not a manner to alleviate tax on the Government people, no! One fundamental reason Mazabuka is fast growing into a city, according to our vision by the year 2015, is because of these levies. Mazabuka is not as suppressed as Lusaka is. Why? It is because of these levies. We have done a complete water reticulation system out of these levies and our people are dreaming of drinking clean water and then somebody comes and says Mr President you must remove the crop levy.

Mr Lubinda: Kasongo!

Mr Nkombo: I think what they had in mind was grain levy rather than crop levy. Why does this Government want to politicise maize all the time? If you go back to the echoes of that statement, it came from grain millers and not necessarily from ginning companies who gin cotton. So, who is the beneficiary? It leaves the farmer sitting between the devil and the hard place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: This is because the one who benefits is the grain trader as well as the farmer. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity, not to challenge the Government, but to plead with it to re-look this matter with the seriousness that it deserves in order for life to be normal. Otherwise, you must bring the Yellow Book with equivalent of K1 billion because that is what Mazabuka picks up, every year, from crop levy in order to cover that gap. Life does not permit a vacuum. I plead for the powers that be to say that only an idiot cannot change his mind. There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing ones mind …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … when you realise that there is a mistake, it is important that you reposition and take a deep breath and say this was incorrect. We did it in the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) with the able Chairmanship of my neighbour here, Hon. Chifumu Banda. We realised that the plenary had made a mistake and we revisited one article. What is wrong with revisiting a small matter like grain levy? I beg of this Government to look at that matter very carefully.

Mr Speaker, as I go towards the end of my submission, the President spoke about desertification and he was also quoted as saying the First President was an ambassador for replenishing our trees. I am astonished because the President did not even go a mile further to indicate the devastating effects of deforestation. Probably, he took it for granted that every Zambian knows the effects of deforestation.

Mr Speaker, we have had floods for two consecutive years and we forget because we are inclined to be drought responsive. We must be a bit more forthright and deal with actual resilience, adaptation as well as finding means of averting these problems that are caused by climate change. I listened to the President who, actually, made an elaborate speech in New York at the General Assembly. However, there are people who are not adversely affected by climate change and he just said Dr D. K. Kaunda would help in planting trees. I think our people require to be sensitised about the effects of climatic change because this is a real situation.

 Finally, let me talk about tourism. It is a good thing that you have opened up the Northern Circuit, but there is a problem, hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, through you, Mr Speaker, if she is in the House. For one whole year, it is embarrassing to learn that most of the tour operators operated outside licence. They have been operating illegally and this is a fact because somebody failed to do what they ought to have done. When a policy is put in place, it should be followed by action. Most of the hotels do not have 2009 operating or liquor licenses. This is because the one-stop shop license, which was advocated for, failed to be implemented. It is important to decentralise and make sure that the councils remain agents of the licensing process.

Mr Speaker, there is so much that can be said, but I just want to echo what I said in the beginning that we have a duty to collectively develop this country. There is no reason to be sensational and say one looks like this, therefore, the donors will be scared of his face. It is childishness of the highest order because none of us are handsome. We are all old. Go outside and you will find handsome boys.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: We all have wrinkles because of age. It is disheartening to hear that the donors will be scared when they look at an ugly presidential candidate. I think we have reduced ourselves.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to make this debate.

Thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Mazabuka used the word, “echo” in his speech three times. This word is unparliamentary for the reason that an echo is an unreality and so he cannot echo something which is unreal. Can he withdraw the word?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw and replace it with the word “emphasise.”

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor.

Firstly, Mr Speaker, I wish to join the many hon. Members who have also joined His Excellency the President in conveying the message of condolences to the families of the two hon. Members, that is, Hon. Tetamashimba and Hon Hamir, who have passed on.

Mr Speaker, allow me to begin my debate by saying something on economic management. The Member of Parliament for Mazabuka, Hon. Nkombo, talked about the interest rates in this country. I want to take his words as mine, but allow me to talk about how it is possible for a Zambian to do business in this country. As we continue to talk about growing our economy, we should also look at who will grow it. Do we want to grow our economy depending on direct foreign investment or do we want to grow our economy by involving our local citizens?

Mr Speaker, today, banks in this country charge interest rates as high as 38 per cent, but when they borrow from the Bank of Zambia, they do it at less than 10 per cent. When one invests or deposits money into the bank, the interest rate is low. How then is it possible that our local people can be encouraged to borrow for investment? It becomes very difficult even as the Government continues to try and reduce the cost of doing business. The cost of doing business in Zambia is high, especially to a Zambian investor. It is for this reason that I want to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning what role the Bank of Zambia is playing in our markets when it comes to financial matters because it is supposed to be the supervisor. How much is the Government supervising these banks? What is the Zambia Competition Commision (ZCCM) doing, if it exists?

Mr Speaker, if one borrows money, today, the repayable amount is standard for two years. Even when the principal amount reduces, one continues paying the same amount for two years. Is that how it should be? As the principal amount reduces, the interest should also be going down, but that does not happen in this country and nobody is interested in ensuring that that is adhered to.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about how this economy is going to improve. Most of the money that this country collects goes to consumption. Ministries do not contribute to economic growth. They are there to use money which is raised by other sectors of the economy in order to survive. I urge the Government to try and put more money in the ministries in order to generate more resources if our economy is to grow.

Mr Speaker, as we want to do business, I want to talk about adding value to our products. Zambia has been known as a copper producing country, but I do not know how much value we have added to our copper over the years. The only thing we know is to export copper as cathodes, concentrates or ore. The countries that we sell copper products to are able to make them into finished products and then bring them back to Zambia and we pay at a high cost. As we bring the MFEZs, are we encouraging the foreign and Zambian investors, of course, to try and add value to our products so that we get more money when we export these commodities than the situation is at present?

Mr Speaker, allow me to say something on the Ministry of Education. I want to commend the Government for doing well in this respect.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: I want to believe that every hon. Member can attest to this.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: However, Mr Speaker, we were told, yesterday, in response to the question raised by the hon. Member for Choma Central, that the Ministry of Education is developing a policy on early child care and education.

Mr Speaker, today, this Government has colleges that are training teachers in early childhood care, but are not able to employ them, and yet they come to this House and tell us that they are now developing a framework. The Government is spending money on people whom they are not going to employ at the end of the day. Is that what we want as a nation?

Mr Speaker, it would do us a lot of good, in Malole Constituency, if we could be given teachers to teach the young boys and girls who are growing up. However, today, only those with money are able to send their children to pre-schools. You can come up with a Government policy that every basic school in this country opens a pre-school because you have the teachers.

When you employ teachers in the coming year, I earnestly beg you to ensure that the teachers graduating from these colleges are sent to rural areas because we need them to teach our children.

Mr Speaker, so much has been spoken about Information Communication Technology (ICT). The question is what is being done to ensure that we achieve what we talk about. How many schools in this country are able to afford computers? How many schools has the Government sent computers to? Even if you talk about colleges that are sponsored by the Government under the Ministry of Science and Technology, how many are able to offer computer courses? The Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce is the only one that offers a diploma in computers course. The rest are dealing with Information Management Systems (IMIS), but most of them are private. If we are to do what we want to do, we need to ensure that we buy as many computers as we can and put them into most of these schools.

Yes, the Ndola Technical High School for Girls is a great school with proper computer laboratories, but we need more of such in other areas in our country.

Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about infrastructure development and roads in particular.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Bwekeshapo apopene apo!

Mr Munaile: Yesterday, my colleague from Chinsali talked about the Great North Road. This road is a death trap. For those of us who use this road often, it is not uncommon to find trucks that have overturned coming or going to Tanzania. Lives have been lost and yet we are told that when they consider constructing roads, they look at economic benefits. I would like to ask this Government whether they are telling the people of the Northern Province that they draw no economic benefit from this road? This road goes to the Port of Dar-es-Saalam, the copper mines ferry their copper using this road and a lot of goods come through the Great North Road and yet travelling on this road is a nightmare. The road is so corrugated that it takes one hours to reach one’s destination.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Please, help us. I would like to particularly urge my colleagues in the Northern Province that when you sit in your meetings, let those you sit with know that this road is not only important to the people of  Central and Northern provinces, but also to the people of this country because of the benefit they draw from it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile:  Mr Speaker, we have heard about the Nseluka/Mpulungu Railway Line. The people of Malole, Senga Hill, Mbala and Mpulungu are waiting to make sure that this railway line becomes a reality.

It will help us, as a country, to transport the goods from Mpulungu to Kapiri-Mposhi through the railway line. It will be cheaper and better.

Mr Sichamba: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, the Government promised and when promises are made, people listen. They do not forget. The day of reckoning will come.

Interruptions

Mr Munaile: It is good that when you promise, you honour your word.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Munaile: When you fail to honour your promise, then you are calling for trouble.

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Munaile:  The people of Malole and Chinsali constituencies are still waiting for the Mbesuma Bridge. Promises have been made and we are still waiting for this bridge to be constructed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, many a time, I have stood on the Floor of this House and stated that the construction of the Mwanawasa Bridge will be of no value if the road from Mufulira joining the Great North Road is not tarred.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo, mudala!

Mr Munaile: You will not draw the benefits of that bridge until you do what I am talking about. It will be easier for the transporters to move from the Copperbelt to Tanzania because they would have cut on the cost of travelling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that the Government should take the construction of the Mbesuma Bridge as a matter of urgency.

Mr Speaker, the Kasama/Luwingu Road has taken too long to complete.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichimba: Naukula, ayi.

Mr Munaile: We are still waiting. Why should it take ten years to work on a single road?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, we want that road done and done quickly.

Mr Speaker, the Nseluka/Kayambi Road is a very important road for the people of Malole and Kasama. It is shorter to get to Nakonde through that road than any other road that leads to Nakonde. The road from Chozi to Mukunta has been rehabilitated yet sixteen kilometres from Chozi to Nakonde/Mbala Road has not been worked on. It is very difficult to drive on that road. It is unfortunate that both the hon. Minister and hon. Deputy Minister of Works and Supply are not in the House.

Mr V. Mwale: The Government is here!

Mr Munaile: It is important that this road is worked on so that the people of Malole can get to Nakonde within a short period of time.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has promised that it is committed to constructing hospitals in all the new districts in the country. Mungwi is one such district, but the clinic that is there is not for the Government. It is for the Baptist Church. I would like to say that the Government must ensure that the people of Mungwi District are given a district hospital.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: That will help us in a lot of ways. It takes more than six hours to transport a patient from some area in Malole Constituency to the nearest hospital which is in Kasama.

Hon. Opposition Members: Bebe!

Mr Munaile: I would like you to imagine carrying an expecting woman on …

Hon. Members: On what?

Interruptions

Mr Munaile: … a van through a road that has gullies, all over, to the hospital. Do you expect her to arrive alive at the hospital?

Interruptions

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, we need to live by our words.

Mr Speaker, in my concluding remarks, I would like to talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Sir, I do not know whether this fund is important or not. If you give an hon. Member of Parliament from a rural constituency money to construct a clinic in November, how is he or she going to transport building materials to that place when there are no roads? I think legislation that will compel them to disburse CDF at a given time should be put in place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: I think that is what you are looking forward to.  You really do not mind about this fund. As far as I am concerned, you can even bring it in December, when you know that it is badly needed.  You also need the money and you should not pretend.

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to tell this Government that the Zambian people have given you a mandate to rule and you should not abuse it. No one should even move you away from that vision. As a Government, I think the problem with you is that even when you are accused of doing certain things, you fail to defend yourselves. People will stand and speak against you and you cannot even defend yourselves. Therefore, as long as you do not defend yourselves, despite the policies you want to implement, the people of Zambia will not understand what you really want to do. Those who want to take over from you will take advantage of you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Sir, the time has come. Hon. Shikapwasha, you should do more and defend the Government’s position in certain cases. Otherwise, it will be a catastrophe.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

The Deputy Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Mulyata): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this wonderful speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. 
Mr Speaker, from the onset, I would like to advise my friends that in this House, when we use words such as idiots and childish, just like what my cousin from that side mentioned, that is not allowed in this House. Let us not use such words. Many a times, Sir, you have advised us to be gentle and put our arguments across nicely so that if there is a need to change things, it can be taken nicely and in a cool manner. When you use conditions, only idiots cannot reverse when he sees that something is wrong. Even if you had a good idea, people will start doubting your motives. Therefore, before I proceed, I just wanted to advise you that such words will actually…

Mr Imasiku: Spoil!

Mr Mulyata:…spoil the debate or annoy other people. If this happens, the whole debate will actually not be taken by everybody in this House.

Mr Kambwili: Nomba nga mulelanda ati twalibipa, ninshi tatwakateke po?

Laughter

Mr Munaile: Sir, I do not know whether this fund is important or not. If you give an hon. Member of Parliament from a rural constituency money to construct a clinic in November, how is he or she going to transport building materials to that place when there are no roads? I think legislation that will compel them to disburse CDF at a given time should be put in place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: I think that is what you are looking forward to.  You really do not mind about this fund. As far as I am concerned, you can even bring it in December, when you know that it is badly needed.  You also need the money and you should not pretend.

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to tell this Government that the Zambian people have given you a mandate to rule and you should not abuse it. No one should even move you away from that vision. As a Government, I think the problem with you is that even when you are accused of doing certain things, you fail to defend yourselves. People will stand and speak against you and you cannot even defend yourselves. Therefore, as long as you do not defend yourselves, despite the policies you want to implement, the people of Zambia will not understand what you really want to do. Those who want to take over from you will take advantage of you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Sir, the time has come. Hon. Shikapwasha, you should do more and defend the Government’s position in certain cases. Otherwise, it will be a catastrophe.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Deputy Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Mulyata): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this wonderful speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. 
Mr Speaker, from the onset, I would like to advise my friends that in this House, when we use words such as idiots and childish, just like what my cousin from that side mentioned, that is not allowed in this House. Let us not use such words. Many a times, Sir, you have advised us to be gentle and put our arguments across nicely so that if there is a need to change things, it can be taken nicely and in a cool manner. When you use conditions, only idiots cannot reverse when he sees that something is wrong. Even if you had a good idea, people will start doubting your motives. Therefore, before I proceed, I just wanted to advise you that such words will actually…

Mr Imasiku: Spoil!

Mr Mulyata:…spoil the debate or annoy other people. If this happens, the whole debate will actually not be taken by everybody in this House.

Mr Kambwili: Nomba nga mulelanda ati twalibipa, ninshi tatwakateke po?

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Secondly, I would like to send a message of condolences to the family of one of our gallant men, late Mr Tetamashimba, hon. Minister of Local Government Housing. His demise is really a great loss to this House, his family and the nation at large.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, my condolences also go to the family of my colleague, Hon. Nisam-ul-Gani Hamir, may his soul rest in peace.

Sir, I want to congratulate Dr Solomon Musonda on his election to this House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Congratulations to you, doctor, through Mr Speaker.

I also want to congratulate one noble man in this House, Hon. Hachipuka, on his election as chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Congratulations.

Hon. Government Member: He is a great man.

Mr Mulyata: He is a great man.

Hon. Government Member: And sober.

Mr Mulyata: I would, however, like to advise him that he should be very careful. He is not here, but I am sure he is listening from somewhere.

Mr Speaker, your Committees should not be used for political gain. Some of these situations have actually happened here. I, therefore, would like to advise my colleague, Hon. Hachipuka, that he should not use this platform as chairman to advance his political ambitions.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech was very inspiring because he touched on almost every aspect of this country that affects us. I can actually name them for the benefit of hon. Members who do not know them. They are about thirty-one points in this speech that the President touched on. Someone wants to come to this House and use certain words, saying that the President’s Speech …

Hon. Opposition Members: What words?

Mr Mulyata: Whatever words they used.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: This is not acceptable. We are here to advise each other and move the country forward. It is only in this House where laws are made. These laws are supposed to assist the people outside to govern this country properly.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: If we start to differ even over an item that can be corrected, we will spoil the entire speech.

Mr Speaker, to describe the speech as hollow is not right. I want to actually commend my brother, Hon. Imasiku, for the good way he articulated issues. It was very nice and I thank him.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, there are a lot of things that the President’s Speech touched on. However, I would like to dwell on only four of them which are very close to my heart. These are agriculture, the National Constitutional Conference (NCC), education and lastly the governance of this country.

Hon. Government Member: Former general manager.

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, we want those people who are saying that it is not good to abolish levies to listen to this.

His Excellency, the President said:

“The Government is concerned by the crop levies imposed by councils on produce being transported across district boundaries. Since farmers have difficulties in finding markets for their produce, these levies only serve to complicate the marketing of crops.”

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mulyata: You should be careful the way you talk to me.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister will address the Chair. Let me caution those who continue to make harassing and irritating remarks while seated that one day they will find themselves in some difficulties. You have been warned more than once, more than twice and the third time, you are out. If you do not want to listen, it is noble for you to keep quiet in your seat. The hon. Deputy Minister will threaten nobody either.

 Laughter

Mr Speaker: He may continue

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, I want to quote from this document which was given to every hon. Member here by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry on page 3. It says:

“According to a survey, there certain forms of employment where the employed persons are not entitled to paid leave, pension leave, pension, gratuity and social security. In this definition informal agriculture is also included. The challenges faced by this sector have made it difficult for market workers to organise and operate as key agents of economic development.”

These are things that even yourselves know very well. Our problem here is production. We are trying to encourage a lot of people to produce more crops like, cotton, groundnuts, maize, beans, sweet potatoes and many other things. That is where the heart of the matter is. The farmers will only produce if their benefit are reasonable..

Mr Speaker, people have said that the price of maize for this year was K65,000 which made a lot of people to complain. What have we seen? Farmers who had maybe, produced twenty bags of maize wanted to transport their maize so that they could go and sell it

Interruptions

Mr Mulyata: I am talking about farmers and not traders. Do you know the difference between traders and farmers?

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, I am talking about farmers who have twenty bags, but want to transport those bags to go and sell them. Along the way, the council which has not done anything traps them and it wants to charge them a levy on every bag. Do you think the farmer is going to produce again?
RRRR
Mr Mbulakulima: You will be discouraged!

Mr Mulyata: At the moment, you are complaining about the price that it is low. If they charge you along the way it means that bag will actually cost lower. Therefore, what we want in this country is to empower the producer who is the farmer. If we had a way, we could have given all the returns to the farmer. The farmer must see the reason why he should go back to the farm and produce again. That is what we are doing.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Why not be innovative and find ways of raising money in the councils?

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Mulyata: How many workers are you protecting in the council? You claim that you have provided water to the people. How many people have you provided water to in your constituency? If you have about 10,000 people in your area, how many people out of 10,000 do you provide running water to? 50 and you want the 9,000 who are producing the crops who are more to suffer. Is it the farmers or the councils whom we shall support?

Mr Speaker, I think I have stated this case clearly. It has been directed that levies should be abolished and I agree with the President.

Mr Mukanga: Why?

Mr Mulyata: There are so many reasons I can give you.

Mr Mbulakulima: You have given one.

Mr Mulyata: I have given you one.

Mr Mbulakulima: Go to the next point. NCC mudala now!

Mr Mulyata: Looking at my time, I will now talk about the NCC.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, we make laws in this Parliament and the NCC works under an Act of Parliament. I want you to tell me today if anyone can not get away with anything if the law can easily be broken. Tell me! What is the purpose of having these laws?

Interruptions

Mr Mulyata: The National Constitutional Conference operates under Act, No. 19 of 2007, which means that whatever is there is law. One of the laws in this document is that all hon. Members, not some, of this House are members of the NCC. However, some people have not gone to attend the NCC, why are they not arrested?

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: You have broken the law.

Mr Mubika: Mangani ali kuti?

Mr Mulyata: You have broken the law.

Mr Mubika: Mangani ali kuti?

Mr Mulyata: You cannot get away with this because this is not a small thing. I do not know why we have let some of these people get away with this and yet this is the law we made when I was here.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order.

Mr Mulyata: These people are not arrested.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order.

Mr Mulyata: Why have they not been arrested? That is the question. By this law, they are bound to attend the NCC. Mr Speaker, this is your House and your law has not been obeyed.

Interjections

Mr Mulyata: Due to lack of time, I will skip one point which is on education because many people have tackled it and go to the last one.

Mr Mubika: Take a bit water.

Mr Mulyata drunk some water.

Mr Mubika: Relax!

Mr Mulyata: I now wish to talk about Governance. I have said this before in this house and I want to say it again. Scratch my back and I will scratch yours. This is not my personal to holder job. I was just born and found this. The same goes with the presidency and that is how it should be looked at. Today, the presidency is in the Eastern Province. This is the time the easterners must rule this country, let us support them.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Let us support R. B. Banda.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Why do we want to do this? This will contribute to the governance of this country. Wars in this world or particularly in Africa have come about because of regionalism.

If you ignore that and pretend that nothing is happening, then you are misdirecting yourself. When I talk about that, I am not being tribal or regional but simply stating facts on the ground. There was a problem last week in Uganda because of the same regionalism. In Kenya, the same problem occurred and this is because such affairs were not managed properly. This is happening in many countries.

Mr Speaker, we are not saying that people from other regions cannot be presidents but this particular seat must rotate. At this moment, it is in Eastern Province and even in 2011 this seat will remain in Eastern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, when the time comes for Southern, Western and North-Western provinces to hold this seat, we want everyone to support the move. There is nothing wrong with that because no province will complain. There will be no problems from other provinces which have had a chance to rule because they will be told that they had their time, and these are facts of life.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, when I say this, some people think I am being tribal. That is not the case. I am only being factual. Eastern Province took the Presidency without anyone knowing that President Rupiah Banda was going to be the President of this country but it has happened. All the people in the country said this Presidency should go to the number two who comes from Eastern Province.

Mr Speaker, Eastern Province has never produced a President for this country and so the people supported them. I would like to say to the people of the Eastern Province that in Lozi there is a saying that “ukona kutusa komu ye itusa” meaning that you can only help an animal in the ditch if it is also showing signs of needing help. I would like to advise the people of the Eastern Province to rally behind Rupiah Bwezani Banda all the time especially in 2011. There is no need to quarrel. If you are quarrelling about it, you are just wasting your time because when it moves to Southern Province, we shall support them, and the trend will be the same everywhere. There is no need to be quarrelling about obvious issues.

Hon. PF Members: Northern!

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, I just want to emphasise.

Hon. PF Members: Northern, Iwe!

Mr Mulyata: I am emphasising…

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: … this point because it is an issue where certain people want to pretend that there is nothing happening in the country. Zambia has regions and tribes and we should respect that. Every tribe must be given a chance to rule this country. When the time comes for the Northern region to be given a chance, my family will support them. These are facts of life and this is free advice. Take it or leave it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this golden opportunity to contribute to the Motion of Thanks on the Speech of His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Mr Speaker, first of all I would like to pay tribute to the Government, in particular the former hon. Minister of Education, for the wonderful contribution that he had put in place in terms of infrastructure development as well as the programme of teacher recruitment. I also want to praise him for the wonderful achievements that the University of Zambia is seeing today in respect of …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

________

The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 2nd October, 2009.