DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 6th October, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

____________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE INFERNO AT KARIBA NORTH BANK POWER STATION WHICH OCCURRED ON 18TH SEPTEMBER, 2009

 Mr Speaker: I have permitted the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development to make a ministerial statement.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for allowing me to brief the nation, through this august House, on the fire that broke out at Kariba North Bank Power Station on Friday, 18th September, 2009, around 1500 hours. Sadly, this fire resulted in the loss of three Zambian lives.

Prior to the inferno, the status of the power station was as follows:

(i) The Kariba North Bank Power Station had an initial capacity of 600 mega watts (four generators rated at 150 mega watts each). Following the power rehabilitation programme, the generators number 1, 2 and 3 were up rated to an average of 180 mega watts each. Up rating of  generator number 4 was in progress and being carried out by the Alstrom/Comelex; and

(ii) Alongside the rehabilitation works on generator number 4, Sino-Hydro Corporation of China was commissioned by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (Zesco) Limited to undertake extension works to the existing Kariba North Bank Power Station. This extension will be part of the existing power station installations. Work on the site commenced on 5th November, 2008 and is expected to be completed in 2012. The current works being undertaken are extension of the existing power house, excavation of the intakes, the headrace, tail race and out fall structure. Two new 180 mega watts generators will be installed when the station work is completed.

Mr Speaker, according to the preliminary investigations, the following events took place on the day of the accident:

(i) The two contractors; Sino-Hydro and Consortium of Alstrom/Comelex were working in their respective areas. Sino-Hydro was conducting works involving welding, cutting, sand blasting, painting, grinding and rock blasting.

The Alstrom/Comelex Consortium was working on the rehabilitation of generator number 4 which was being rehabilitated and up rated.

The Zesco employees were carrying out routine activities related to the operations of the power station. The work areas of the two contractors were separated by a partitioning wall which was erected to provide sound absorption and to act as a barrier to flying stones resulting from blasting operations;

(ii) At 1450 hours, the ZESCO senior plant operator while carrying out routine inspections of the plant noticed a flame coming from the absorption wall. The amount of smoke coming out from the affected area suddenly increased resulting into fire. The senior plant operator immediately alerted other employees to assist in putting it out.

(iii)  The fire rapidly swept through the power house roof structure and lighting assembly. The roof structure and lighting assembly detached from the concrete roof and fell on top of the generators and loading bay. Upon noticing the roof collapsing, the team attempting to put out the fire evacuated the power house which was by then plunged into total darkness and congested with smoke.

(iv) During the evacuation process, some people were overcome by the smoke and got injured while attempting to exit the power house through the access tunnel connecting the machine hall to the main entrance of the power house. There was also intense heat coming from burning material in the middle of the access tunnel leading to the work site for Sino-Hydro; and

(v) One employee of Alstrom/Comelex Consortium by the name of Davis Mukonde collapsed and died in the main access tunnel while another employee Mr Lawrence Mando was found dead in the material access cross cut tunnel by the rescue team from Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) Nampundwe Mine.

Mr Speaker, in total forty-two people were gassed and had various burns and injuries as they were evacuating. They were admitted to Siavonga Hospital for treatment and observation and the majority of them were discharged the following day.

Regrettably, sadly enough to report, Mr Briston Kabwe who was referred to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) by the Siavonga District Hospital passed away on 21st September, 2009.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Service Forensic experts were immediately engaged to investigate the accident scene. Initial findings indicated that the cause of the fire was a flying spark produced during the welding. The spark ignited the barrier which was erected for the purpose of trapping flying stones during blasting operations. This was an accident which could have been avoided had all the safety precautions been adhered to. The details about the happenings of the fire are of a forensic nature and can only be released in the court of law.

Mr Speaker, I wish to assure the House and the nation at large that following this unfortunate event, the Government has directed the Board of ZESCO to review all safety procedures to improve the safety of employees working in the under ground areas so that a similar event does not occur.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank all those institutions and individuals who assisted in putting out the fire.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement made by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, what is the estimated cost on the damage by the fire?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank you the hon. Member for that follow-up question. As I have indicated in the statement, there are still some studies being undertaken by the Forensic Unit of the Zambia Police Service and it is only afterwards that we shall know the true cost of the total damage by the fire. Needless to say, after the fire, the plant was found intact in terms of all the machinery except for the artificial roof and the lights that had dropped from the roof three days after cleaning up. As such, there is no damage to the plant for generating power.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.,(Chasefu): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister state out clearly which contractor was at fault bearing in mind that Sino-Hydro and Alstone Consortium were, at the material time, carrying out works involving welding and blasting? According to the hon. Minister’s statement, the cause of this accident was a flying spark produced during welding and blasting operations. Of the two contractors on site, which one faulted?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is correct that there were various works being undertaken by the two contractors on site. However, the forensic experts who the Government engaged are going to release the information in the court of law if they have any blame to be apportioned. As such, until that report is released in the court of law, we are not able to confirm between the two contractors who specifically caused the fire.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, in the previous arrangement, tyres and wood were used to barricade between the new tunnel and the old plant. Have you reviewed this arrangement because this, to me, is a fire hazard?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, prior to the fire, this was the barrier that had been erected to absorb the sound emanating from the blasting. With the fire that has taken place, all these safety standards and measures are being reviewed to avoid a similar accident from happening and that aspect of such a barricade will be taken into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I was privileged to have visited the plant before. In a contract mix of this magnitude, why would ZESCO approve the use of tyres to barricade between the tunnel and the old plant?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mbabala for that follow-up question. The objective of putting up the compromising soundproof tyres was merely to absorb the rock blasts that were coming out during the blasting of the extension of the power station.

However, I must inform the House that between the existing power station and the new excavated power station, was a distance of about 18 metres and the first barrier that was put was a barrier of fibre glass which is fire resistant. The second barrier was of foam which should have been absorbing the dust emissions that were produced from the blasting and resulting into powder. The fan barrier which was inside was made of tyres for sound absorption. This has been a great lesson to all the safety standard officers in the Government that such a thing should not have been entertained in the first place and during the review of the safety measures, this is being taken into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that the rescue team was brought all the way from the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) Nampundwe Mine. How long did it take for them to get the site of the fire? What happened to the safety department within the plant at Kariba North Bank?

Mr Konga: This accident, unfortunate as it was, happened and took the members of staff at Kariba North Bank by surprise. As I stated, there were excavation works being undertaken on the side of the plant that was being extended. The Management and Board of ZESCO thought it wise to engage the services of excavation experts because there was a time when it was difficult to access the tunnel that was being excavated. In this case, they engaged the Mine Service Unit of KCM that is based at Nampundwe. Though ZESCO has its own Safety Department, it does not have the expertise in excavation. It was for this reason that they called and relied on the services of KCM, Nampundwe Division, that has expertise in excavation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that one of the ZESCO inspectors saw a small smoke which increased and resulted into a fire. I would like to know how this smoke resulted into a fire. Also, since a life has been lost, I would like to know what type of compensation is due to the family of the man who died on duty.

Hon. Opposition Members: Three men.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I regret that the hon. Member came into the House late and as a result, did not hear the initial part of the statement that I gave.

Hon. MMD Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Konga:  Yes, because in my initial part of the statement, I said there were some welding works which caused a spark. The spark was what caused the smoke that resulted in the fire.

Laughter
Mr Konga:  Yes. If the hon. Member did not hear that there was spark, I repeat that there was a spark that came from the welding.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, the accident at the Kariba North Bank comes in the wake of two earlier fire accidents in our stations here in Lusaka. I wonder if the hon. Minister is looking at the possibilities of whether or not these fires are accidents or they are deliberately sparked by some people with ulterior motives.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, this is the question that the Government has posed and will be answered once a thorough forensic report has been issued by the experts from the police unit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, underground works and operations are highly technical in nature and at variance with ZESCO’s day-to-day operations. Has the Ministry of Energy and Water Developed liaised with the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, in conjunction with the Mines Safety Department, on the monitoring of activities for safety, health and environmental compliance?

Mr Konga:  Mr Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that the accident was partly due to negligence in adherence to safety standards. Therefore, following this fire, the Government has directed the board to review all safety procedures so that the Safety Unit at the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development as well as the Ministry of Labour and Social Security are on board in ensuring that safety standards are not compromised, but adhered to 100 per cent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the plant was insured. I would also like to know which party will be liable between the two contractors and ZESCO and what will be the level of compensation to the victims?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the fire emanated from the side which is being extended by a contractor engaged by ZESCO. I have indicated that a full forensic report will be delivered in a Zambian competent court of law to determine the fault and which party is liable. Once that is done, the institutions found wanting will handle the compensation issues.

Mr Speaker, as regards the sad loss of three lives, I would like to assure the House that due insurance and assurance skills will take effect so that the loss of those Zambian lives are accounted for.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, since the accident, parts of Lusaka have experienced load shading on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Weekends from 09.00hours to 22 hours at times. Can the hon. Minister state whether this is as a result of the accident? I would also like to know who the insurers are.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the fire occurred on Friday, 18th September, 2009. By Monday, 21st September, following the clean up of the debris that had fallen on the generators, the first machine was brought back into service. The following day, the second machine was brought into service and by the fourth day all the operating machines at the Kariba North Bank were brought back into service. Save for generator number four which is undergoing rehabilitation and up rating, all the machines of the plant were brought back into service within four days, indicating that the normal power supply from the Kariba North Bank extension was restored on the fourth day.

Of course, big cities like Lusaka and others on the Copperbelt might be experiencing intermittent power cuts. This is as a result of the growing Zambian economy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Konga: I have repeatedly stated in the House that we have not invested in a new generation plant, but the economy in terms of agriculture, manufacturing, tourism and other sectors are still growing at the same supply rate of power. This is what is causing a deficit. The deficit is not because of the fire that took place at the Kariba North Extension, but because of the growth of the economy, due mainly, to the good policies of this Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mrs Phiri (Munali) Mr Speaker, it is not the first time that ZESCO has experienced accidents. This takes me back to the accident where two young people in Chakunkula in my constituency were burnt. The ZESCO management promised that they would employ those young people on a permanent basis. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why he is not making sure that the ZESCO Management fulfills its promise to these young people. One of them by the name of Mr Makungu has been fired.

Mr Speaker: I said that the follow-up questions should relate to the points contained in the hon. Minister’s Ministerial Statement. The story about promises of employment was not part of the Ministerial Statement.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the details of the report are of forensic nature and because of that, he would not divulge any further  information on the Floor of this House as it can only be presented in court. Can he explain to the House whether there is any dispute in this matter regarding who the contending parties are and the sticky issues which caused the issue to be referred to court?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as I have indicated, three Zambians lost their lives as a result of this fire. The Government has instituted forensic investigations whose results are only produced and determined by the court process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that they have involved the Zambia Police Forensic Department. The accidents took place in the tunnel, therefore, I would like to find out whether they are also going to involve the Mines Safety Department which is very competent in investigating such accidents.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that various wings of Government, including the Mines Safety Department, are working together with the Zambia Police Forensic Department of the Police to come up with a conclusive report.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, if my memory serves me right, I think it was nationals from Czechoslovakia who constructed the power station. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether they made efforts to contact the people who designed and constructed the power station to come and the carry out extension works.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the people who constructed the power station were from Yugoslavia.

I thank you, Sir.

 Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to pass my condolences to the bereaved families. However, my interest is in the progression of the fire into the power house. Usually, these are fitted with automatic fire detectors by smoke detectors and an automatic fire fighting water base system. I would like to find out if these systems were in place, if they were, are they operational, and if not, why?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the power station is fitted with a smoke detector and a fire fighting system. From the report that has been produced so far, it indicates that the fire did not take place in the existing power plant, itself, as I have already said, all the machinery was salvaged as the only damage was caused by the debris that had fallen on them.

The fire started where there was a barricade wall, but wind system was blowing away from the existing plant to the extension plant to prevent dust going into the plant. As such, there was no fire or smoke because the air was being blown away from the existing plant. As a result there was no fire or smoke that went to trigger the fire or smoke alarm.

I thank you, Sir.
_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

KASAMA/LUWINGU ROAD

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when tarring of the Kasama/Luwingu Road would be completed;

(b) what the initial project timeframe was;

(c) how much money would be spent on the remaining stretch of the road; and

(d) how many kilometres were tarred as at 30th June, 2009.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the intended completion date for the negotiated contract for the construction of the Kasama/Luwingu Road to bitumen standard is 22nd March, 2010. However, there is a likelihood that this would be extended due to budgetary constraints. The provision of the budget in the 2009 has been exhausted.

Sir the original contract duration was estimated to be twenty-four months. The estimated cost for upgrading the road to the bitumen standard of the remaining 62 kilometres is K192,905,237.10.

As at 30th June, 2009, a total of 90 kilometres cumulative had been upgraded to bitumen standards.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, since the project cannot be finished within …

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to keep quiet in this House while he is giving instructions daily to carry out extra judicial detentions of the public by not explaining to this House what constitutes unnecessary honking in this country?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, under Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia, Section 5 of the National Assembly Privileges and Acts which hon. Members of Parliament, who have, also, been caught up in that web enjoy, …

Laughter

Mr Beene: … it is stated that …

Mr Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … for the duration of the meeting when Parliament is in session, hon. Members of Parliament shall enjoy the freedom from arrests for any civil cases with the exemption of criminal cases.

Interruptions

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the 2006 National Assembly Handbook, Parliamentary Privileges, states clearly, and I quote:

“Parliamentary Privileges relate to the ability of members and staff to carry out their work without fear of legal process, intimidation, unchecked disclosure or conveyance of records of the proceedings of the Assembly. Thus these privileges give due protection and facilitate the operations of the House and members in their individual capacity.”

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, this country has the Road Traffic Act and offenders can be fined for breaking the law.  Therefore, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to continuously carry out extrajudicial detentions of Zambians and hon. Members of this House?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Well, I hear so many answers. That means that the point of order was not raised through the Chair. Suffice for me to say that the substantial aspect of the case the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi is referring to is already in court.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

It sounds like someone has a better answer out there. This House will carry on with its current assignment.

The hon. Member was raising a subsequent question.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, since the project cannot be finished within the stipulated time of the contract, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government intends to sign a new contract because there has been some variations from the Government.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, the contracts of course make provisions for extensions whenever it becomes possible. However, this question has been on the answer sheet for a very long time. I do not know whether it is our explanation in English which is difficult. We may interpret this in local languages for the hon. Members of Parliament to understand.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Silavwe (Nakonde): Mr Speaker,…

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The trend that is developing in this House is worrying. Is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to insinuate that hon. Members of Parliament do not understand English and that he needs to translate issues in Bemba when the official language of this House is English.

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Arising from the point of order by the hon. Member for Roan, I would like to guide that there is a need in this House, as elsewhere, for mutual tolerance and understanding. The hon. Members will recall that we had young people from all the provinces of Zambia and this was the subject they debated in this House. Those of you who did not come to listen to those debates missed a great deal. This was the matter that was discussed. Be patient with one another. Tolerate one another’s view points. You should, in many ways, be compassionate. Unless leaders are compassionate to or with one another, you will have difficulties leading those you are expected to lead.

Therefore, there is no need for any member here to have an explanation made to him or her in a language other than English. I am not entitled to comment, but understanding and expressing of oneself in English is one of the eligibility for election to this House. We have no facilities in the House for simultaneous interpretation in the many other local languages we speak in this country.

There was a follow-up question.

Mr Silavwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from my hard working hon. Minister of Works and Supply…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Silavwe: …what the initial cost of the project was and as a result of the delays by my Government to honour the contractual obligations, how much money had been paid to date?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, in an endeavour to be very compassionate, …

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti:… since I have provided that information on the Floor of this House before and they want me to bring the same information again, I can do that at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Works and Supply state when this project started and what the cost at that time was. He should also tell us why it has taken so long and still remains uncompleted to date.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I have already said that the information that the hon. Members are looking for can be brought to this House at a later stage. We have done it in the past, either through Questions for Oral Answer or subsequent questions. It is not possible for me to answer that question because today we are answering a specific question. In future, when they need such information, we will feel free to bring that to the House.

I can see the hon. Member for Chipili is very angry. Be compassionate too.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is no need for fun here. The hon. Members as well as the members of the front bench will be serious.

ZAMBIA FLYING DOCTOR SERVICE IN CHOMA DISTRICT

102. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Ministry of Health:

(a) why the Zambia Flying Doctor Service did not operate in Choma District; and

(b) whether there were any immediate plans to introduce the Flying Doctor Service in the District.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, historically, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service (ZFDS) has not operated in Southern Province. This is because at its inception in 1967, the Rhodesian liberation war was at its peak, and Southern Province was one of the vulnerable areas. Therefore, for security reasons, the service could not operate in the province.

It is, however, important to note that ZFDS was set up in 1997 through an Act of Parliament with the mandate to operate in the hard-to-reach areas. The service is a key player in the referral system with a national coverage, including Choma District. Therefore, should there be a need to evacuate a deserving citizen from Choma District to another health facility within the country that suits his or her needs, the ZFDS shall provide such services.

Mr Speaker, as indicated above, Choma District is a beneficiary of the ZFDS as it falls within the services’ catchment area.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for giving the people of Choma a new district hospital.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: I, however, do not know why he cannot extend this service to Simwami, a big catchment area, where people are still using traditional herbs because of lack of such services.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for complimenting us on the new hospital that was built in Choma. This is an indication that this Government is really hardworking and delivering.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Akakandelwa: Secondly, I have already stated that the ZFDS is available to every deserving patient. The service will be provided wherever they may be needed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, the ZFDS has been defined as one of the mobile hospital facilities in this country. The hon. Minister told us that the ZFDS has not really been operating in Choma. What guarantee do the people of Choma have that the mobile hospitals that this Government plans to procure from China will benefit them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, I did refer to the change in nomenclature that it is not mobile hospitals but mobile health services. You cannot call a plane or an ambulance a hospital. When these facilities come, they will reach every corner of the country and Choma will be a beneficiary.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this Government intends to review Cap. 298 of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service because the Act is old and is not gender sensitive with regard to the board. If so, when will this be?

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, the Act has worked very well for the country. If need arises for amendment, it shall be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, the operations of ZFDS, for a long time now, have not been effective. Can the hon. Minister state the number of doctors operating under this organisation?

Mr Lubinda: Simbao.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to correct the impression that this service has not been effective. This service is normally used when there is dire need to reach a certain place which cannot be reached by other means. As we are aware, at the moment, the situation that existed in 1965 in Zambia is not the same today. The service is still very active in Ndola and it has in excess of five doctors in service.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister who maintains the BN2A3 Islander Planes for flying doctors, considering the fact that the last air accident we had was in 1975.  

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we have maintenance engineers within ZFDS. At the moment, they are the ones looking after the planes.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF NEW STADIUM IN NDOLA

103. Mr D. Mwila  asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development:

(a) how much money the Government would spend on the construction of the new stadium in Ndola;

(b) what the source of funding for this project was;

(c) which contractor had been engaged to construct the stadium;

(d) how many Chinese nationals had been engaged to work on this project.

The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the construction of the new stadium in Ndola will cost a total of US$ 65million which is about K300 billion.

The funds for the construction of this stadium are from the Government of the People’s Republic of China. So far, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has spent close to K200 million to meet its obligations under this contract. This expenditure was on the leveling of the ground, the provision of water and sewerage, power and telecommunications facilities on the site in order to facilitate construction. The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), Kafubu Water and Sewerage Company and Zamtel provided these facilities and services.

Mr Speaker, Anhui Foreign Economic Construction Group Company was recommended by the People’s Republic of China to construct this stadium. The company is reputable for quality and experience in undertaking construction works and has similar projects in many parts of the world.

It is important to note that in 2007, Anhui Foreign Economic Construction Company scooped three out of six awards for quality given by the Department of Construction in China.

Mr Speaker, lastly, a total of 205 Chinese nationals have been engaged to work on the project. In addition, 190 Zambian workers have been employed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, now that we know that this money is a loan, I would like to find out from hon. Minister how much interest the Government will pay to the Chinese Government.

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, as at now, I am not in a position to know the interest rate. I would, however, advise the hon. Member to pose that question to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, so much money was spent on an old site and the substructure was ready at a very high cost. What is going to happen to the work that was done because what was remaining was a superstructure? The substructure was completed at a very high cost. Are you abandoning that site?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the site which the hon. Member for Moomba is referring to belongs to the council. Therefore, the council will decide what to do with the site. The interest for my ministry is to complete the Ndola Stadium.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, seeing that a large proportion of the K300 billion which is going to be utilised for the stadium is going to be used in terms of mobilisation costs, would it not be prudent for the Government to extend this programme to other areas such as Livingstone? Since this Chinese Company is already in Zambian, it would make subsequent stadium constructions cheaper.

 Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, if funds were available, we would in fact, replicate what is being done in Ndola to many parts of this country including Livingstone. I have talked about the new stadia for Lusaka and Livingstone on the Floor of this House assuming that funds are made available by the Chinese Government through a loan.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, may I know how this Government will repay the Chinese Government such a huge amount of money and what are the detailed salient terms of contract? May we know?

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu:  Mr Speaker, the most important point to note is that when you get a loan, there must be a way to pay back. Certainly, this Government will repay this loan to the Chinese Government. I am not too sure of the period, but I suppose the number of years that have been given to Zambia to repay the loan are reasonable.

 Interruptions

Mr Speaker, I am saying that I am not too sure.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the Government gets a loan of U S $65 million. We hire a Chinese contractor and most of the employees are from China. Do you not think that it is high time that the Government started creating employment for the local people? Why should w have more Chinese than Zambians on site?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, it is a condition.

 Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, obviously, the Chinese contractor had to come with part of the consignment of their workers. On the question of creating employment for Zambians, the answer is very clear because they also got jobs at Ndola Stadium. I do not know how many people the hon. Members would like to see engaged for the construction works. As far as we are concerned, the current number is reasonable.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Granted that some of the questions are obviously financial questions, we ask questions to the hon. Ministers because we are aware of the fact that Cabinet works on the principle of collective responsibility. I hope the hon. Minister will answer this question or refer it to another ministry.

Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister indicate to this House whether at the time of accepting that what was a grant, gift or free money be converted to a loan, this Government consulted the Paris Club Declaration and the Accra Agenda of Action in so far as debt and loan contracting are concerned to ensure that China did not impose on the Zambian people a loan that we are not prepared for. Could the hon. Minister also indicate whether at a time that odious debt was given to Zambia, this Government would have wanted K300 billion to be spent on something else more productive than a stadium. Could you explain to us?

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, that was a Cabinet decision. Cabinet consulted and the correct decision for that matter was made.

 I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, at the entrance to this stadium, the contractor has constructed Chinese symbols which include a dragon and lights with Chinese graphics which implies that they probably own this place. Could I learn from the hon. Minister what is the significance of those structures in front that stadium?

Interruptions  

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, sometimes you cannot understand what hon. Members want to find out.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Dragons!

Mr Chipungu: Sir, there is nothing wrong for them to do that.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: At the moment, that is where they are staying. I suppose that is a logo for the sake of identification.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker,   I would like to thank the Government for providing that stadium.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: Meanwhile, I would like to find out from this Government that since this is a loan, will the contribution that was made by Ndola City Council to level the ground be taken of by the main loan in the final analysis.

 Mr Chipungu:  Mr Speaker, it will not. It was agreed in the contract that as the Zambian Government we needed to undertake that task as per the answer given. Therefore, that money for that task will not be paid for by the loan.

 I thank you, Speaker.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development whether there is any consideration in the spirit of transparence to avail or publish the contract that was signed between the contractor and the Zambian Government especially that US$65 million is actually a yoke to the Zambian People.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I do not know if it is possible for us to do that. In case hon. Members would like to peruse through the contract, they are very free to either come to our office or go to the Ministry of Works and Supply.

 I thank You, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I want to guide the House that the answers that are being given to this question should be read together with the Ministerial Statement that was made in this House with regard to Zambia’s preparedness for their participation in the 2010 World Cup that is going to take place in South Africa. At that time, the hon. Minister gave an elaborate statement regarding the construction of stadia in Ndola, Lusaka and Livingstone. Hon. Members must go back to the records and refresh their memories on this matter.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

DREDGING OF THE LUNDAZI DAM

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the Lundazi Dam, which was currently silted, in Lundazi District, would be dredged.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation works on the Lundazi Dam which includes dredging of the dam in order to desilt it will be undertaken in 2010. The Lundazi Dam is one of those dams that the Government has earmarked for rehabilitation and maintenance in the district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda S.C,: Mr Speaker, twelve months ago, your ministry promised that this dam was going to be dredged in 2009. May I know the reasons this was not done?

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, the commitment to dredging the dam in 2009 was not fulfilled due to financial constraints. The constraints have now been addressed and the works will be done in 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I am aware that almost all Government owned dredgers are broken down because we do not have the expertise to fix these dredgers. Which dredger are they going to use to dredge this particular dam?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the question of whether the dredger will either be Government’s or sourced from the private sector will not be an issue. However, definitely, the dredging will be done in 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

SESHEKE/SIKONGO/SHANGOMBO ROAD

105. Mr Mooya (on behalf of Ms Limata) (Luampa) asked the Minister of Works and Supply how the money for the rehabilitation of the Sesheke/Sikongo/Shangombo Road had been utilised.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, there were no funds allocated to the Sesheke/Sikongo/Shangombo along roads RD462 from Sesheke to Shangombo and RD320/461 from Shangombo to Sikongo in both the 2008 and 2009 annual work plans.

However, funds were allocated to the Sitoti/Shangombo Road (RD463) in the 2008/09 Annual Work Plan and Sesheke to Sitoti (M010). The section from Sitoti to Shangombo was advertised twice in 2007 and 2009 with funding from Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA), but no bids were received thus funds allocated remained unutilised.

The section from Sesheke to Sitoti (M010) was not procured in 2008 due to constraints in the funding though a provision was made in the 2008 Annual Work Plan. The funds remained unutilised. The funds allocated were insufficient to start the works. The remaining section from Sitoti to Kalabo did not have any budgetary allocation in both 2008 and 2009 while their was a feasibility study undertaken and concluded to upgrade to bituminous standard the section from Kalabo to Sikongo in June 2009.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, why are contractors shunning that road?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, like I have said before, the terrain there is such a big challenge. The cost of moving materials is one of the biggest challenges we have because we have got no laterite in the area. We had to ferry the laterite for long distances. As a result, the cost is so high, that contractors are not ready to do the job.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, along the Sesheke to Sitoti section, the Namibians cross over to get laterite and do their roads in Namibia. Why is the Zambian Government failing to use that laterite to do the section from Sesheke to Sitoti?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I have said that bids were advertised and contractors did not come forward. When contractors do not come forward it becomes difficult for Government to do its work. However, now that we have got our own equipment, there is a possibility that we can use our own equipment to do the project.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there are more challenges on the Namibian terrain than it is in the Western Province of Zambia, but there are much better roads in Namibia than in areas such as Lusaka.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I cannot speak for the challenges in Namibia because my area of influence is Zambia.

Interjections

Mr Mulongoti: However, as to whether they have better roads there than here, I think it is hearsay from the hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, if the hon. Minister is aware that Western Province has a different terrain than the rest of the country which also requires development, would he state why this Government continues to allocate the same amount required to do 1 km in Western Province as is elsewhere, that is K1 billion? Why do they not take this information into account and therefore come up with a different figure for construction of roads in Western Province?

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, although the hon. Member is speaking with authority, he knows that the costing of each road is based on the requirements. It is not possible that you can have a standard cost for all the roads around the country. I have said that we are mindful of the challenge we have in the Western Province. I do not think the engineers like Hon. Mooya would be so irresponsible as to standardise the costing per kilometre for all the roads across the country.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: So, Mr Speaker, I do not think there is any merit in what he is saying.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF POLICE POSTS IN CHINSALI

106. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali Central) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would construct police posts in the following places in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency:

(i) Chief Nkweto’s area;

(ii) Chie Mubanga’s area; and

(iii) Senior Chief Nkula’s area

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Arresting officer!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mangani: … the construction of police posts in Chief Nkweto’s area, Chief Mubanga’s area and Senior Chief Nkula’s area in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency cannot be done at the moment due to budgetary constraints. Like Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency, the rest of the 149 constituencies are also in dire need of police posts. Hence, construction of police posts cannot be done in all constituencies at the same time, but in phases depending on availability of resources.

Further, the establishment of police posts is dependent on the population size, economic activities and distance from the nearest police station. Not until these factors are met, will a police post be established. The House may wish to know that the ministry is in the process of developing an infrastructure development action plan aimed at undertaking a systematic approach to rehabilitation and construction of police infrastructure. The plan will assist in organising needed resources and serve as a blue print to guide with rehabilitation and construction works.

Mr Speaker, to reduce on the waiting time, I hereby encourage the area Member of Parliament to use part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to commence construction of police posts in the three chiefdoms.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that in the three mentioned chiefdoms, there are no police posts and crime is on the increase on a daily basis? If he is aware, I would like to find out from him what measures the Government is putting in place to ensure that crime is contained in these areas.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the concept of a police post was as a result of the interest the community developed in policing crime in a particular community. We are not so particular that we can only contain crime when we have a building, but that the community participates in arresting the situation, whether there is a building or not.

The interest of the ministry, at the moment, is to look at police stations because most parts of the country do not have them. So when we have resources, we shall first look at the issue of police stations and eventually construct police posts. This is why I am encouraging the hon. Member to possibly look at his CDF to address the problem.

I thank you, Sir.

LUANSHYA PRISON

107. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) what the capacity of Luanshya Prison was;

(b) how many in-mates were currently held at the prison;

(c) how the Government intended to decongest this prison;

(d) how many meals the in-mates took per day at the prison; and

(e) what the recommended number of meals per day was.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the capacity of Luanshya Prison at the time it was constructed was 300. There are, at the moment, 322 inmates currently held at the prison.

Mr Speaker, the Government intends to decongest the prison through the following measures:-

(i) Full implementation of the Parole Programme in the Zambia Prisons Service. This is the conditional release of inmates before the expiry of their sentences.

(ii) Transferring inmates to prisons which are not congested such as Kamfinsa State Prison.

(iii) Establishment of open air prisons in all central or district prisons.

(iv) Building of new prisons such as the new Mwembeshi Maximum Prison which is yet to be completed.

Mr Speaker, inmates take three meals per day at the prison and the recommended number of meals per day is three.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, first of all, let me thank this Government for having arrested me to go and see what goes on in Luanshya Prison. I would like the hon. Minister to state whether it is true that the prisoners are given three meals. I was there and I saw that they only eat one meal at 14:00 hours. The hon. Minister is misleading the nation by saying that the prisoners eat three meals per day.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the Prisons Department is currently doing very well.

Hon. PF Members: No!

Mr Mangani: They have been very active in the production of food and because of this, they are able to supplement the rations for the inmates and I can confirm that they are taking three meals per day.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I am aware of other prisons where the prisoners only eat one meal a day. I would like to learn from the hon. Minister what Luanshya Prison has done right that the other prisons in this country should copy.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, all the prisons are able to feed their inmates three meals per day.

Interruptions

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I have inspected some of these prisons and some information you have is speculative. I have inspectors and I know that people are taking three meals per day.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how these prisons raise money to ensure that they have enough to buy their requirements to feed the prisoners three meals per day.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the Prison Service has a number of programmes. At the moment, they are busy with farming. In the last season, they were able to produce maize which is enough to help in the feeding of the prisoners. They are also growing a number of vegetables which also supplements their diet.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what constitutes the three meals he talked about.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I cannot define the diet for each prison in the country but what I am interested in is that prisoners should have three meals per day. Chama Prison will have their own diet and so will Mongu depending on the situation, but my interest is for them to have three meals per day and that is what is happening at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata : Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the capacity of the prison is 300 inmates and that at the moment they have about 322 inmates. What measures is the ministry putting in place to prevent tuberculosis which is airborne and rampant in prisons because of poor diet?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, one of the measures that we have undertaken is that of cleanliness. If you check now, our prisons are very clean.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

CONNECTION OF BASIC SCHOOLS IN MONGU TO THE NATIONAL GRID

108. Mr Milupi asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when            the following basic schools in Mongu District, which were surveyed by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) and the Japanese International Co-operation Agency (JICA) in 2007, would be connected to the national electricity grid:

(i) Kaande
(ii) Mawawa
(iii) Namitome
(iv) Mweke
(v) Ikabako
(vi) Nangula
(vii) Miulwe
(viii) Kaongeta
(ix) Malala
(x) Ndanda

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, electrification of the following basic schools Kaande, Mawawawa, Namitome, Mweke, Ikabako and Nangula will be implemented in 2010 by utilising a soft loan financing facility that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has obtained from the Government of Japan through the Japanese International Co-operation Agency (JICA).

Mr Speaker, the areas fall under project package ranked number four in Western Province in the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP) and forms part of the projects that were selected to kick-start the implementation of the master plan. The estimated cost of connecting these basic schools to the national grid is K17 billion and the procurement of consultants using JICA procurement rules has already started.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, I wish to state that the following basic schools: Miulwe, Kaongete, Malala and Ndanda fall under the project package ranked number seventeen in Western Province in the REMP. These schools are earmarked for connection to the national grid in 2017 at an estimated cost of K50 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, this is especially with respect to the answer on electrification of schools earmarked for 2010. However, for those schools earmarked for electrification in 2017, is the hon. Minister aware that these schools are along the Lusaka/Mongu Road and that is where the power line passes and, therefore, they are close to the source of power? Would he indicate why it is necessary to allow the pupils who go to those schools to be without electricity up until 2017?

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, …

Dr Scott: Tom and Jerry.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: … it is correct that pylons or power lines pass through these schools, but our part as Ministry of Energy and Water Development is done. Therefore, we would also ask the hon. Member to use the Constituency Development Fund, if possible ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Which CDF?

Mr Mbewe: … to connect electricity to these schools.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah! Ah!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is not only that. We would also like to ask the hon. Member to approach the Ministry of Education so that they can work hand in hand with him for that programme to be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, I would like to find out when the REMP will be made available to us because we were told it was going to be made available by the end of September but nothing has happened.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, the REMP will be made available to Members of Parliament very soon. Hon. Members will recall that, last week, my ministry advertised the launch of the REMP publicly. It was supposed to have taken place on 7th October, but due to other circumstances, this programme has been postponed and once it has been officially launched the REMP should be available to all Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

MANO/MWEWA ROAD IN CHIFUNABULI

109. Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when Sable Transport Company which was contracted to work on the Mano/Mwewa Road in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency would work on the loop between Kandolo and Senior Chief Mwewa’s Palace which was inadvertently omitted from the works.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation and maintenance of the Mano/Mwewa Road did not include the section of Kandolo-Senior Chief Mwewa’s Palace at all. That section of the road was not inadvertently left out at all. The roads to be included in the contract was dependent upon the available budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: Iye!

Mr Ndalamei: The project was financed by both the European Union and Zambian Government.

Under this contract, the funds to rehabilitate the road within the first six months of project implementation were provided by the EU and, for maintenance, funds was provided by the Zambian Government.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, not possible at this stage of the project implementation to vary the contract to include the section between Kandolo and Senior Chief Mwewa’s Palace, since the conditions of the contract require that all roads that are included in the package should be rehabilitated within the first six months before being placed on maintenance for three and half years.

The ministry, however, intends to include the rehabilitation of the Kandolo-Senior chief Mwewa’s Place when rehabilitating the Samfya/Lubwe Road when funds become available.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the road from Mano to Mwewa actually passes along the loop which has been eliminated from the works and consequently, it cannot be true that this was not part of the road because that is part of what was to be rehabilitated. The hon. Minister has told this House that it will be done when they rehabilitate Samfya/Lubwe Road. The rehabilitation has …

Mr Speaker: Order! Do you have a question?

Mr Mwansa: Yes, Sir. Could the hon. Minister tell this House that they made a mistake and they will go back and do the loop because that is part of the road?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, it has been acknowledged that the road was not included, maybe, by mistake like you have said. As a Government, we are committed to ensuring that if that was a mistake, it is going to be corrected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the quality of works by Sable Transport has been questioned in certain parts of this country. For example, the Maamba/Batoka Road is one road in question. I wish to find out from the hon. Minister what was the rating of the quality of works for this road and why Sable Transport was chosen to do this road.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we have, in this country, an authority called the National Construction Council which, every year, evaluates the performance of contractors and, so far, we have not received any indication from the authority that the performance of Sable Transport has been condemned all round. As to whether in one particular incidence there could be a mistake made, this is not the reason we should condemn a company all round. So, if the hon. Member has information that will be helpful in trying to assess the performance of this particular company, we will be grateful to have that assistance.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF SIAMUTWEZUBA BASIC SCHOOL IN MAPATIZYA

110. Mr Sejani (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Education when the ministry would construct Siamutwezuba basic School in Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken measures to ensure that Siamutwezuba Basic School in Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency is constructed soon. Currently, the ministry will advertise the project within the fourth quarter of 2009. Drawings and the bidding documents have already been submitted in accordance with the Zambian Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) procedures.

Therefore, construction of the school is expected to take place once a successful bidder has been selected. This is expected to take place during the course of the first quarter of 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

___________

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, just before the House adjourned last Friday, I was paying tribute to the late Member of Parliament for Solwezi, Hon. Tetamashimba, and Member of Parliament for Chitambo, Hon. Nasim-ul-Gani Hamir.

Mr Speaker, I have gone through the speech that the President delivered to this House. This is a speech that gives a lot of hope to this nation in terms of …

Dr Scott: It only gave hope to you and not the nation.

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: … development and will help us attain the millennium development goals (MDGs) …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: … and the Vision 2030.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech gives hope to people that are jobless and those that have jobs, the young and old, men and women, the disabled as well as rural and urban dwellers. It embraced everyone, including the people living with HIV/AIDS and Zambians in the Diaspora.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, not fair for people to stand in this House and say that the President’s Speech is not helpful. In his speech, the President highlighted a number of projects that have been and are still being implemented in this country. I would like to just mention a few projects that the President spoke about. He talked about the Zimba/Livingstone road, which is being rehabilitated and those that dispute this can go to Livingstone to see that the project is on course and will be completed very soon. The Choma/Chitongo road is another project that is on course. Other projects are the Kasempa turnoff, Kabompo/Chavuma, Kasama/Luwingu ….

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: … Luansobe/Mpongwe, Chipata/Lundazi, which passes through my constituency, Kasama/Mbala and Chipata/Mfuwe roads. The President said that K200 billion will be provided for the rehabilitation of the Chipata/Mfuwe road starting January next year. What can those that do not see sense in his speech say about these projects that are being done?

Mr Speaker, we have to be honest and support the Government when it is trying to do things that will help this nation.

Dr Katema: Even when it is hallucinating?

Mr V. Mwale: The President spoke about ten health posts that are being constructed at the moment and, therefore, it is not fair for the Opposition to say that the President presented a speech that is not helpful to this nation.

Mr Speaker, the President also spoke about the US$9.7 million Lusaka General Hospital project. This hospital will be constructed in Lusaka and will, therefore, be helpful to a lot of people that live in Lusaka. It will help decongest the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). By the end of this year, 2,543 classroom blocks …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, just before business was suspended, I was highlighting the major achievements of this Government, last year and this year, and what it intends to do. The people of the Northern and Luapula provinces say that ‘ushitasha mwana wandoshi.’ This means that one who does not appreciate is a child of a witch.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, it is important for us to appreciate what this Government has done and what it intends to do for this country. By the end of this year, 2,543 classroom blocks will be completed and this is no mini achievement. This means that a lot for the education of the children and young people of this country. This year, 196,428 desks have been delivered throughout the country. All of this has been highlighted in the President’s Speech to this House.

It is, however, unfortunate that some people have deliberately chosen to talk about other things as if they do not see these achievements, thereby politicising the President’s Speech. At the moment, 280 teachers’ houses and eight youth resource centres are under construction. This is a big achievement. I am just summarising what the President said to this House so that hon. Members realise that he made a very important speech that gives hope to this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, major works were completed at Chipata, Solwezi and Mongu Trades training centres. Hon. Members can go to these places to verify for themselves. These are achievements of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. A total of 476 motorbikes have been bought for agricultural extension officers. I, therefore, do not see how the Opposition can claim that the MMD has failed in agriculture when we are trying to improve agricultural extension services so that people can learn more about agriculture. Agricultural extension officers can easily go around rural areas and teach people which crops to grow and that agriculture is a business so that they can make better profit from their produce. In other words, these bikes will help improve the mobility of our agricultural extension officers.

Mr Speaker, the Government has also procured solar panels, radio communication equipment and motorbikes for 560 health centres.

These things are highlighted in the Presidential Speech and it is important that we begin to appreciate the things that our Government is doing.

Mr Speaker, phase I of the Cancer Disease Centre at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) has been completed and we are starting phase II any time.

Mr  Tembo: Bauze Sibaziba.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr V. Mwale: … at UTH.

According to the speech that His Excellency the President gave to this House, this is a programme intended for this country and very soon people from Malawi, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Tanzania will be coming to this country to seek medical attention.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, this is a great achievement for this Government and people must commend it. Many people in Africa are struggling to provide anti-retroviro treatment (ART) for their citizens, but in Zambia, with the provision of the anti-retroviro (ARVs) to people living with HIV/AIDS, has been scaled up to 64 per cent. This is a great achievement. In case, deliberately, some hon. Members did not thoroughly go through the Presidential Speech, I am highlighting the salient features to them so that they are able to appreciate it.

This Parliament is working and this is what gives me the confidence that no matter what may, this Government shall be given another mandate in 2011.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, we have ignored our people that are working outside this country for a long time. It is against this background that our Head of State appointed a liaison officer at State House to look into this matter. In his speech, he told this House that he had appointed a liaison officer at State House for people living in the diaspora.

Mr Speaker, we know very well that even if these people are out there working, they can also play a role in the development of this country. This is the reason the President has deliberately put up a liaison officer at State House.

Mr Speaker, one good example of a country with people living in the Diaspora is that of the people of Philippine. These people are contributing US$10 billion to the economy of their country.

Mr Speaker, we, as a country, can do the same by earning revenue from the people living in the Diaspora. They are working hard and we know that they are earning a lot of money so they can contribute to the growth of this country. We are going to make sure that the tax base is widened by capturing taxes from these people that are living outside Zambia.

Mr Speaker, having highlighted what the President talked about in his speech, I now want to move to another subject that the President spoke about passionately. In my view, this is a problem that is emerging in this world and one which requires a lot of interest from heads of state. It is gratifying to see our Head of State being so much interested in this subject matter, the climate change.

Mr Speaker, we know that we are experiencing climate change in this world and as a Member of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism, I am very happy to see that the Head of State is also very interested in this matter.

Mr Speaker, I just want to quote what the former United Nations Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, said about climate change:

“Climate change is the greatest emerging humanitarian challenge of our time causing suffering to hundreds of millions of people worldwide.”

Another quote from the Land Set published in May, 2009:

 “Climate change is the biggest global health threat of the 21st century.”

Mr Speaker, for a Head of State to come to this House and talk about what the Government intends to do about climate change in this country is something that should be applauded.

Mr Speaker, just a brief background regarding the consequences of climate change, according to the global humanitarian forum headed by Kofi Annan, 325 million people are already affected by droughts, diseases and floods. Livestock and fisheries are also affected while 500 million extra people are at risk.

Mr Speaker, 300,000 people, every year, are killed as a result of climate change and in the next twenty years, it is predicted that one in ten could be seriously affected. There is also a prediction that by 2020 there will be about 50 per cent cut in terms of food production worldwide.

Mr Speaker, these are serious matters that must be addressed by all governments. In December, this year, there will be a historical symposium that will be looking at climate change issues in Copenhagen where all states will gather to look at this issue. Therefore, I am asking this Government to put up a good negotiating team to lease with the developed nations. As you may be aware, 98 per cent of those that are killed as a result of climate change are from developing countries, and yet we only contribute 8 per cent of the global emissions. Therefore, as a country, we must put up proper case to be presented before Copenhagen. This is will be a very historical event and we must make sure that we use this event to negotiate for what we want to see.

Mr Speaker, the President said that he has asked our First President Dr Kenneth Kaunda to spearhead a tree planting campaign in response to this issue of climate change. For those of us that understand climate change, we will join hands with the First President and the Government to make sure that there is a massive tree planting campaign throughout the nation. When the President presented his speech to the United Nations General Assembly, he dedicated about seven paragraphs of his speech to climate change issues.

Mr Speaker, we have seen Germany, in Europe, taking the lead in the issue of climate change and we would like to see Zambia taking the lead in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region when it comes to climate change issues. We have seen our President doing it and we thank him for that.

Mr Speaker, I have noticed that I do not have enough time, but I would like to thank the President, again, for being elected Chairperson of the Great Lakes Region.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This shows that His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Banda, is a great man and his leadership is being felt throughout the region. He is now the Chairperson of the Great Lakes Region which promotes peace in the region.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the President’s Speech that was delivered to this august House.

Mr Speaker, let me start by thanking His Excellency the President for his eloquent speech that was delivered to the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, I stand here very proud to state that the speech was one of the best delivered speeches in the House by the Head of State because it touched on all issues that affect the development of this country. There is a saying in my sweet language which says, imbila emo wayumfwila, meaning dance according to the way you enjoy the song or how the song sends you down.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, in this regard, who am I not to mention on the Floor that the speech was well delivered since I enjoyed every word it contained.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: With such a wonderful speech, which was appreciated by everyone, even the critics know that the speech was good and it contained a vision and direction of the MMD. You will, therefore, agree with me that the speech has brought a lot of hope to the Zambian people.

His Excellency the President’s pronouncement that the Government will revise the Water National Policy will help increase the number of people accessing good portable water and will go a long way in trying to meet the Millennium Development Goal No. 7. This will reduce communicable diseases such as cholera, diarrhoea, dysentery, typhoid and so on.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech also gave great hope to all the Zambians on water and it is good to know and appreciate that the construction of the water storage dam and sinking of boreholes around the country has been stepped up. You are aware that water is one of the country’s key natural resources. Thus, it has great potential to contribute greatly to the social and economic development of this nation and Sub-Saharan Africa. Therefore, the revision of the National Water Policy will contribute greatly to other development sectors such as agriculture through the irrigation system. By so doing, this will improve the national food security.

His Excellency the President informed the nation, through this House, that in the electricity sub-sector, the focus of the Government continues to be increasing electricity generation capacity to meet the ever-growing electricity demand. Therefore, this is good news to the nation, both socially and economically. The increase in generation capacity will help meet the country’s energy demand and also generate foreign exchange through export of power, especially of the coming of the World Cup 2010 in South Africa.

The President’s Speech reminded this great nation that the performance of any given economy is dependant on stable and sustainable energy. Hence, it is encouraging to note that the focus of the Government is to ensure stability of supply of electricity, petroleum products and the promotion of new and renewable sources of energy.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about mining. Mining has remained a key sector of the economy with exports of mineral products contributing about 70 per cent of the total foreign exchange earnings.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Lundwe: This is an indication that the Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, is performing to its people’s expectations. When the global crunch came to effect, the citizens of this nation were worried. They did not know how the mines were going to survive. Thank God for the noble leadership of President Rupiah Bwezani Banda who provided direction and solutions. As I am speaking, the mining sector has been revived.

Hon. Members, let us learn to give credit where it is due instead of condemning unnecessarily. You may wish to know that this Government accepts and appreciates constructive criticism and, therefore, I thank those hon. Members who have criticised or contributed to this speech positively, them.

Mr Speaker, through you, let me also advise my elder sister, the PF (Patriotic Front) Member of Parliament for Chililabombwe, Mrs Esther M. Banda, that she is a national leader and, therefore, should never, agai,n belittle the Copperbelt rural people as they are equally important and free citizens and their vote choice ought to be respected by all well meaning leaders.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, those are not serious leaders in this House because even when you are talking sense, they like questioning.

Laughter

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, I have prompted to say this because of the numerous calls I have received from my constituency over this issue after the hon. Member referred to the Copperbelt rural constituencies as “bush constituencies” during her debate last week.

Hon. Government Members: Shame.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, the people of Copperbelt rural feel insulted and are saying days are numbered. These are the people you will be able to tell that their leadership is very bad. Even when you are trying to pump or put sense in their heads, they like questioning.

Mr Speaker, people listen to the radio countrywide. They should be serious with such matters because our people are able to hit back in future.

Mrs Banda: Question.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, let me also take this rare opportunity to advise some people on your left that they should sober up and show maturity during their debates. I also want to let the hon. Members on your left know that Copperbelt rural is also in urgent need of development. Hon. Members who come from the Copperbelt Province who think development is only taken to Copperbelt rural should know that this is not true because we equally have problems with bridges, such as, Chimfumpa, Saka, Munkulungwe wa ba Mushili, Matete and impassable roads which the Road Development Agency (RDA) also needs to include in their plans. Therefore, making comparisons between Copperbelt urban and rural in a biased manner should come to a stop. What should be realised in this House is that we are all here to serve the Zambian people. What type of leaders do you have on your left who want this caring Government to stop caring for the people in the rural areas?

Having followed some debates in this House, I am sure you will not deny, Mr Speaker, that some hon. Members’ leadership is very questionable because they would have no hearts for our people in the rural areas, especially those in the Copperbelt rural if they were to come to power. I appeal to the people in the rural areas to look out for such leaders because we may fall into ditches.

On mining, Mr Speaker, again, the President announced that mining as at 2008 contributed 8.4 per cent to the Gross Domestic Product and currently contributes about 58,000 direct jobs to the formal employment sector. Honestly, this is enough indication that this listening Government is working and cares for the people. With the mentioned development, it is likely that the figure will increase, especially that the copper prices have continued increasing on the world market and also the increase in the exploration and expansion of the existing mines.

These developments will ease the movement of goods and services in rural areas, especially that the Government will, now, consolidate the feeder roads programme to ensure that access to markets for farmers becomes a reality.

Mr Speaker, I am certain that those hon. Members of Parliament, even on your left, who represent people in rural areas understand what they go through and I expect them to thank this Government because it is being considerate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, the distribution of health and other facilities in this country is still skewed towards urban areas. To address this, the President has informed the nation that this Government is investing in infrastructure development and provision of medical equipment countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the revelation that the construction of fifteen hospitals in various districts is in progress is good news for the rural communities. I believe that this is not all. Even other rural districts, such as Masaiti District, will one day be considered for a district hospital which the people of Masaiti have been crying for, day and night.

Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia are anxiously looking for mobile health services to be taken to their door steps because they are tired of covering long distances of more than 50 km to receive medical attention.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lundwe: They cannot wait to consult doctors at their door steps. Surely, this is a good gesture that this Government has shown to its people.

Mr Speaker, like I said in my opening remarks, the President’s Speech is encouraging and very fruitful and it is just prudent that we all rally behind him so that what has been said in his speech can become a reality.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, since the President delivered his speech, I have kept quiet for a long time as I was at pains to try to find out what he was trying to tell the nation …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Kakoma: … and in which direction he wants to take the country.

Ms Lundwe: Taumfwile?

Mr Kakoma: After going through that speech several times, I concluded that the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) Government has run out of ideas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: The whole speech was about continuing with the policies and programmes that are bringing this country down.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It has not provided any new direction that gives hope to the Zambian people that the Government is going to solve their problems. It is about continuing with the same failed policies and programmes. It is business as usual.

Mr Speaker, the President clearly failed to identify the various problems that are in this nation and their solutions. It was business as usual. It was as if this country is not faced with an economic crisis.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that this country has been affected by the global economic crisis. However, the President has not given any direction on this matter. He has not given any stimulus package to take the country out of its problem. The President said that the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth would decline to 4.3 per cent. He has identified the problem which is that this economy is declining, but has provided no solution as to how that economic decline will be reversed and how we are going to promote growth in order to create employment, reduce inflation and stabilise interest rates. Nothing in that speech demonstrates to the Zambian people that this Government is going to solve those numerous economic problems that this country is faced with.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, it is clear that with the current leadership, this country will continue to face high inflation levels because nothing is being done to reduce them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It is clear that with this leadership, this country will continue with high unemployment levels …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … because they have not done anything or provided any solutions on how the high levels of unemployment in the country will be reduced.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Kakoma:  Sir, it is clear that this country will continue to face high interest rates because the President remained silent …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … on how interest rates will be reduced in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Bwekeshapo apopene!

Mr Kakoma: It is for that reason I stated in my opening remarks that this Government has run out of ideas in terms of providing various economic solutions that people need.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the President thinks this country is not in a political crisis and has provided no ideas as to how we are going to stabilise this country politically.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear!

Mr Kakoma:  He provided no direction. This country is sliding into an economic crisis because the political issues that provided stability and earned this country high marks are slowly being forgotten. I am talking about the fight against corruption.

Mr Speaker, ever since we lost our gallant fighter against corruption, His Excellency, Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, this Government is busy embracing all the corrupt people, some of whom were fired in President Mwanawasa’s Government and others were ignored for appointment. This Government has embraced all these people and are now in the forefront of running the affairs of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, it is clear …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member, like all other hon. Members, will refrain, as the tradition of this House, from making references to matters that border on Presidential Prerogatives such as appointments.  It is not fair. It is not permitted to do so in the House. Unless the hon. Member can substantiate whom he is referring to as corrupted appointees, he should move away from this subject.

You may continue.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your wise guidance. Mr Speaker, this Government has been embracing and …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kakoma: … entering into pacts with corrupt people.

Mr Speaker: Order!

It is quite clear that you do not desire to continue debating.

You do not desire to continue to debate if you fall into the trap of persons who are telling you to ignore. I will not ignore, but take action. I will give you one chance to debate, but move on.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your wise guidance, again.

Mr Speaker, since debates on the President’s Speech started, a lot of people have been referring to the PF-UPND Pact. I would like to add my voice to that debate.

Mr Speaker, the pact is between the two biggest political parties in Zambia. The PF -UPND Pact has caused sleepless nights on …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … some people, especially those in the MMD Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It has caused sleepless nights because we know that with the pact in place, the MMD Government is coming to an end in 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this is the people’s pact because they have been calling on the Opposition to unite in Zambia so that it becomes very easy to beat the corrupt MMD Government.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that since 2001, a lot of people in the country have always voted against the MMD Government. They have never supported this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: In 2001, for example, 71 per cent of the people voted against this Government. The Government only managed 29 per cent, but because the votes for the Opposition were divided, the MMD Party ended up forming a minority Government. The same situation repeated itself in 2006. The combined Opposition votes were more than those of the MMD Party. Even in last year’s Presidential By-elections, the combined votes for presidents Micheal Sata and Hakainde Hichilema were more than the votes that President Rupiah Bwezani Banda got.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It is from that analytical position that the people have decided that the two parties must work together and root-out the MMD Government in 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this pact is going to unite the people of Zambia. We have seen that over the years, the people have been divided along regional and tribal lines in terms of voting, but the coming together of the giant opposition political parties will unite regions and tribes. We shall be One Zambia One Nation again …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … which this Government has failed to achieve. For the past seventeen years, this Government has forgotten about the One Zambia One Nation motto to the extent that they are now thinking that it is one Zambia seventy-three nations. It is our duty, as leaders, to unite this country once more.

Major Chizhyuka entered the Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this pact has come to stay.

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Kakoma: The pact has come to stay. Not only is it sending sleepless nights to the MMD Government, but also some people in the Opposition who think that they can work against the pact. They will be disciplined or find themselves out.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I am stating this on the Floor of the House and as spokesperson of the UPND and co-spokesperson of the pact.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Any indiscipline member of the pact will be disciplined.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are about to infringe the provisions of Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia. You cannot intimidate any hon. Member of Parliament in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: If you do so outside the House and I get to know that what you have done outside the House emanates from what was debated here, I shall take action.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is freedom of speech in this House. The laws that you have made in this House tell you clearly, including the Constitution, that no hon. Member shall be intimidated. A Member shall have freedom of speech. Therefore, do not tell me that you are going to discipline your members here, no. You cannot do so.

You may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. The pact has already started working.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: In the last Local Government Housing Elections, the pact scooped more than 73 per cent of the Local Government seats. These seats were spread throughout the country which gave a clear sample of the feelings of the people in the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: They have totally rejected the current MMD Government through the local government elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: We grabbed seats that belonged to the MMD in many places and this is a clear indication that people have changed. They are changing towards the pact because they have realised that this Government is taking them nowhere.

Mr Speaker, may I conclude by touching an issue that is close to my heart and this is the clear neglect of the North-Western Province by the MMD Government. For the MMD to be in Government, it is because the people of North-Western Province were made to believe that this Government, under President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, was going to follow the legacy and fulfill the promises of the late President Mwanawasa. It has now dawned on the people of North-Western Province that they were duped and that the MMD Government is no longer following the legacy, promises and programmes of the late President Mwanawasa. As a result,…

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order on Hon. Kakoma who keeps contradicting himself. This Government has continued to lead under the legacy of the late President Mwanawasa, hence even in the North-Western Province, Lumwana Mine has continued its operations and other developmental programmes are still going on. We would agree with him if he had any meaningful example to show that the MMD Government is not following the legacy of the late President.

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services has raised a point of order on the speech by the hon. Member for Zambezi West. The hon. Member for Zambezi West is a member of the Opposition and he is doing everything possible to ruin …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … all the efforts you are making everywhere in Zambia. The Chair will not stop him from doing so.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: However, it is the duty of the governing party and its allies to counter …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … his debate by magnifying the good things you say you have done all over Zambia. So, when your chance comes, counter his debate.

The hon. Member for Zambezi West may continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to continue ruining …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … the MMD policies in the North-Western Province. When President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa was alive, he clearly committed himself to the development of the North-Western Province. He committed himself to complete major projects that were in the province such as the completion of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. He promised that if God gave him more days, by 2011, the Mutanda/Chavuma Road would have been completed. This is no longer the case. The current Republican President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda should as well commit himself to the development of the North-Western Province in the same manner he is to certain regions in Zambia. 
 
Sir, it is on record that the President has provided K200 billion for the Chipata/Mfuwe Road and that the road is going to be completed. The Mutanda/Chavuma Road has been there since independence, but has only received a minimal amount of money which cannot even tar 10 kilometres of the road this year, leaving a stretch of more than 300 kilometres. Why can the President not commit himself and put K200 billion to complete that project which his predecessor started? He knows that the road leads to where the new oil fields are going to be. Why can he not commit himself to constructing a bridge on the Zambezi River leading to the oil fields since that is going to be the wealth of this country? The feasibility study has already been conducted and we only need US$ 9 million. Therefore, why can we not construct that bridge? We want the same level of commitment that he shows to other regions extended to other parts of the country. If not, that will make me have a very easy campaign. I will de-campaign him in the North-Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, I will tell the people that this current President does not love them and that he does not even want to come to the province. I will also tell them that he has even turned his back on them, unlike what President Mwanawasa used to do. 

Mr Speaker, let the Government, through His Honour the Vice-President, go and tell the President that all the promises that were made by the late President must be fulfilled if you are to get votes again from the North-Western Province. Without the votes from the North-Western Province, you would not be in Government today. Now that you are neglecting them, you will not see those votes again in 2011. Therefore, with the pact coming in, I can assure you that you will have no more votes from the North-Western Province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Community Development and Social Services (Mr Muteteka): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving this rare opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have spoken through this House.

Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to take the salutations which have been delivered by my fellow debaters as my own. Today, I want to talk about the President’s Speech and also to touch on my ministry and how this Government is committed to delivering the service to the people of this country.

Mr Speaker, in my description, the speech was a policy direction to provide management and implementation of the programmes that are reflecting in the Fifth National Development Plan which this Government has put in place as a collective document. The speech guided this House and the nation. It provided leadership, unity and peace. Therefore, as Ministry of Community Development and Social Services and as Government, I want to highlight the programmes that we are carrying out to benefit the people of this country.

Mr Speaker, it will not do any good if we do not inform this House, the nation and our colleagues who have been opposing for a long time. I think it is now time for them to listen and understand how Government operations and what we have planned for the benefit of themselves as well as the people of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, we have a statement which we are following and the functions that we undertake. We are there to facilitate social economic empowerment programmes to the law capacity households through community mobilisation, sensitisation, skills training and provision of materials and financial grants where necessary.

Further, the ministry is charged with the responsibility of spearheading, monitoring and evaluating the programmes under its mandate.

Mr Speaker, we also participate in the social protection sector Advisory Group of the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). Furthermore, we participate and facilitate in national activities such as the International Literacy celebrations, International Volunteers Day, International women’s Day and other international events of national concern.

Mr Speaker, we equally promote, protect, preserve as well as perform in human development, especially, where cultural development is concerned. As you can see, in this period, we are witnessing a number of ceremonies throughout the country. One of our responsibilities is to ensure that we protect and promote our culture in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech which was delivered in this House is giving policy direction to the Government to provide leadership on the management and implementation of programmes to develop this nation for the benefit of all citizens in this country.

In my ministry, specifically in my department, the Government, with the help of donor funding has allocated K10 billion for the procurement of inputs under the Food Security Pack (FSP) programme. This programme is intended to mitigate the suffering of our people. As the Government talks about food security in the rural and peri-urban areas, we have K10 billion budgeted for the procurement of seed and fertiliser. This programme is purely tailored to alleviate the suffering of the vulnerable, but viable small-scale farmers of this country by giving them fertiliser and seed.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, we are currently identifying these vulnerable groups with the help of well-meaning leaders of our rural and peri-urban areas, who are the chiefs, headmen, local churches and individuals. This programme is quite important for this country. If we provide the people that we represent in this House with food and other incentives, there would be peace in the country. The Opposition is saying whatever they are saying because they have run out of ideas.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, for someone to abandon his manifesto and programmes to partner with someone who does not understand anything, it means they have run out of ideas.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka:  As MMD, we have never run of ideas, hence, we are intact and stronger.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I, therefore, would like to appeal to the hon. Members in this House, that in partnership with the chiefs and churches in their respective constituencies, they should take this programme seriously. We do not want other people from the constituencies, who do not have any knowledge whatsoever to come and consult on what the Government is doing and go and explain to the people, when they have us as representatives. We have more knowledge to educate our people, which is an advantage.

Mr Speaker, we also budgeted K1.5billion for rural self-help projects in our last budget. This means that we are using this money to uplift the living standards in the communities by building footbridges, community infrastructure and mothers’ shelters, which have been identified and brought forward to our ministry by the communities themselves. Throughout the country, we have officers at the sub-centres who are employed by this ministry. Shunning those offices just because you are in the Opposition is doing a disservice to your people in the constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: I, therefore, invite you to use our infrastructure and also to learn what is available for your people from this ministry and Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Furthermore, we put aside K700million from the previous budget which we are using to empower the women. This money is meant for empowering our women groups, youths and the men, who have come together to realise what they can do together to improve their living standards in the communities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Muteteka: Mr Speaker, the qualifications for accessing this money are very simple. It just a matter of coming together, forming a club, coming up with a project proposal on how you want o invest the money, and registering it with a Government certificate and presenting it to Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. We are currently checking up on these people. We have been to Eastern and Northern provinces. We are going province by province because we have realised that this information is very important and helpful. Our people must know what we have planned for them and how they can acquire it.

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to my colleagues on the other side to listen carefully and explain to the people so that we can distribute this money and empower our people for the development of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, it very frustrating to hear a degree holder saying that we have run out of ideas. Does he know what he is telling the nation? Who has run out of ideas?

Hon Government Members: The degree holder!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, we have another programme in which we have put aside K500 million for non-formal education. We go round to safe-tie the women in groups and teach them simple entrepreneurship skills and make them understand profit and loss balance sheets in simple terms so that when we give them money, which is about K4million per club, they know how to administer that money so that the proceeds, if well managed, help take their children to school, their sick to health centres and meet other needs in their respective homes. These are Government programmes which we have tailored for the people of this country in all the constituencies regardless of how they voted. As the Government, we have a duty to reach out to everybody and it is important that we work as partners for the sake of the people out there.

Mr Speaker, we were not sent here to shoot down ideas which are benefiting our people in Zambezi. We are here to learn and take the information to the people and explain to them so that at the end of it all, we are one Zambia, one nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, we also have a project popularly known as the Cash Transfer Project. The Government, in partnership with the German Government, has put money together for this project. We have realised that we have the aged, child-headed homes and people who are destitutes, who are not being supported in rural areas. This Government has been taking care of these people in Kalomo, Katete and other provinces. It is a pity that Hon. Muntanga is not here, he would have testified that in Kalomo, lives have changed because we give these people between K80,000 and K100,000 monthly for their basic needs. This affords them a meal. These are people who felt abandoned. It took the Government to make an effort to find the money for this programme which runs on a monthly basis.

Mr Speaker, this Government is catering for the poor people. These are yours and our people, and yet you come here and pretend that this is not happening.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muteteka: Let us be realistic.  

Mr Speaker, in leadership we must learn to respect, appreciate and advise each other. Just like the Hon. Mr Speaker said, leaders must be compassionate. We have to listen to each other and have the patience for each other. We know that you are in a hurry, but you are using a wrong and defective system.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: An old system known as the pact.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, when a person comes to this House and talks about the legacy being abandoned, they must be very specific. I would like to state that I have been in this Government long enough and I understand it better. I, therefore, can advise that if we go to Chisamba today, the road which was earmarked for construction in the Mwanawasa Government is being worked on. Construction of a school which was started in the Mwanawasa Government is being worked on today. Money has been allocated for this project and materials are still being bought for this project, and construction is superb. Can you mention an area where a project has been abandoned because of the death of late President Mwanawasa?

Hon. Government Members: Nothing, no idea.

Mr Muteteka: We have spent K1.2biliion on rural electrification and next week, we are commencing it in Chisamba. Which abandoned projects are you talking about?

 

You must understand that this Government is the same Government which was there. Therefore, President Rupiah Banda to act as President in good faith. Mind you, he was the Vice-President then and was participating in these programmes. He just took over because we had a calamity. You must therefore, sympathise with the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka:  He was not an outsider. He was left as the Vice-President. Those who failed the late President Mr Mwanawasa were usually fired. Why did he not fire RB before he died? These are things which are part of our beliefs and culture.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Let us sober up. What are we talking about? A Government is about collective agreement.  If you have picked specific issues, we have specific ministries which are specifically assigned for that. For example, if a clinic is built in your constituency, we have the Ministry of Health. If it is about roads, we have the Ministry of Works and Supply. Have you been there? If so, what were you told? Some of you are afraid of coming to the offices of hon. Ministers. Shame!

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: Tell them!

Mr Muteteka: You do not! We know that we are privileged to be in Government to deliver the service to the people of this country, both those people who voted for MMD, those that did not even vote for MMD and those that stayed away. We have the mandate to deliver the service to everybody. Therefore, your duty is to support our programmes when we bring them in your respective constituencies.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: It will not do well for you to build a school in your constituency and thereafter, scandalise it. It is not fair. You should ask yourself whether what you are doing is for yourself or the people of Zambia. Let us not be unfair to the people that we claim that want to provide leadership to. These are people are the ones who brought us here. Some of us will be examined for what we do here. I do not think some of you will make it for the second term.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I want to tell you that if you have anything against Mr Rupiah Banda as a person, the country is with him.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: The people out there are with him and are following what this Government is doing.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I also want to mention that this Government is very committed. When it comes to the disabled, as a ministry, we are maintaining seventeen farms for them. These are farm blocks which we have identified and we have resettled the disabled people. These people will be provided with inputs, rations and others things because it is our responsibility as a Government to do that. Therefore, if those resettlements are in your constituencies try to visit them and find out other pressing issues and bring them to the attention of this Government for solutions.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, these are some of the programmes that we are implementing as the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, including the welfare of the people on the street. We also provide help to the people on the street by bringing them to centers and providing with education for them to grow up into responsible citizens when their time comes to re-integrate themselves into the communities.

Mr Speaker, I want to end my debate this afternoon by saying that we must realise who we are because people out there are expecting our leadership.

 Ms Lundwe:  Kakoma, listen!

Mr Muteteka: We must be sober and ask ourselves what we promised the people of this country. Are we delivering? We must come here with responsibility.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: We have to embrace extended families as hon. Members of Parliament. We must also appreciate the Government because it is there for the people of this country including yourselves.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Therefore, we must promote unity and reasoning over matters. Spend a bit of time and ask yourselves what value are you adding to this country?

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Muteteka: What am I doing for Zambia? Do not say what is Zambia doing for me? What are you adding to this country as Charles Kakoma?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister will not be personal about this. Add your case or else we pick up the sense you are making.

 You may continue.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance.

Mr Speaker, this country is not developed. Therefore, we are looking forward to developing it. The fact that we must develop this country demands that we work together.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: We must always bear in mind that sometimes, we even fail to satisfy the budget. Our cooperating partners come in. This is the sign that our country is not developed. Therefore the meagre resources that are available must be applied diligently throughout the country. It will not do well probably for you to misapply the Constituency Developed Fund (CDF) on the things which will not benefit the people of your constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I want thank you and all hon. Members that paid attention during my debate.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! I want to alert the Executive that you have between now and Thursday to reply to the many issues that have been raised on both sides of the House regarding what Government is doing or should do. Cabinet and Deputy Ministers, this is your time.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’ Office (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker,   I thank you very much for this opportunity, with your usual leadership and timing, like you read my mind.

 I have been listening attentively from the time the President came to this House right up to this time to the debates that have been taking place on the Floor of the House.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I am a very disappointed person just like you have been many times with the behaviour of our colleagues especially from your left side who raise issues and when it is time for us to respond, they walk out. Anyway, we are not worried because that is their tradition.

 Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I want to join my colleagues in sending massages of condolences to the families of our beloved departed Cabinet Minister, Hon. Tetamashimba and indeed, Deputy Minister, Hon. Hamir. I want to join those that have sent their messages of sympathy.

Sir, late Hon. Tetamashimba and I worked very closely and I learnt a lot from him. I knew late Hon. Tetamashimba way back when I was still working in the mines, Luanshya in particular when he was with Zambia Cooperative Federation (ZCF). I kept on having a relationship with him right up to the time that he joined politics and left me behind. I have been following his life right up to the time that I came into this House. As you maybe aware, he was in the Opposition, but every time we exchanged notes and I must admit that I learnt a lot from such a man.

Sir, it is sadly to hear that some of our colleagues came in this House during this session and started to pretend that they really loved late Hon. Tetamashimba. When the man was with us, they never even wanted to see his shadow. Yet, at this time, they have started heaping praises on him. They are forgetting that Zambian have been watching and listening. It is high time that we changed our attitude and praise the people whilst they are alive. We saw the same when we lost our President. We saw a lot of crocodile tears, but I am sure the Zambians were able to judge who was mourning genuinely. 

Mr Speaker, moving away from those sad situations, I expected our colleagues to stand up full of praises this time around for the Vice-President’ Office. This time around, His Honour, the Vice-President moved swiftly and timely in responding to the calls of our people. This has even made some of our colleagues very unpopular in their constituencies because Government through the Disaster Mitigation and Management Unit (DMMU) moved in at a time when our people were in trouble with floods. The DMMU also provided for their other needs which they lacked.

Sir, having said that, I wish to thank the personnel from all districts, provinces and indeed, the headquarters from the DMMU, especially those that worked and also helped us to deliver what the people required at this critical time. I am sure you will agree with me that this time around that the call by the people for Government assistance was not as it has been in the past years. I know that there are some areas that we could have not touched.

However, on the same note, Mr Speaker, I wish to educate my colleagues that when disasters happen we take action. For example, if a bridge is washed away or a school’s roof is blown off or, indeed, other disasters affecting our people take place, we, as a Government, move in to work on that disaster. If, for some reason, the project is not finished during the rainy season, it is the duty of each Member of Parliament to plan, at district level, in order to attend to that particular school which has been affected in such a disaster. However, some of my colleagues tend to forget and continue singing about disasters even when the rainy season is over. This is the time when the line ministries are supposed to be alerted. For example, if it is a school that has been affected, the Ministry of Education has to be alerted. Then the ministry will plan properly for that disaster not to reoccur.

In addition, we also encourage hon. Members of Parliament to assist us in relocating people under the Department of Resettlements which is in our ministry. I have observed that some people take credit for this exercise even when it is an on-going exercise. For example, I have in mind the Lenshina issue. This exercise has been ongoing. We have been moving the people from that area and this programme is ongoing. However, some hon. Members come to this House and raise this issue on this programme which is already in motion.

Mr Speaker, I wish to join many hon. Members who spoke about tolerance which is related to leadership and I believe that it must start from this House. I have Hon. Kasongo in mind, and I take his debate as my own.

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: That is what we call leadership …

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: … displayed by Hon. Kasongo and, indeed, a few others. Nevertheless, the problem is that we forget very easily that leadership has to start from this House. That is what the people of Zambia are looking for. Half the time, we have watched our colleagues, especially on your left side, Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Sichilima: … rushing to agitate violence, forgetting that Zambians are watching.

Mr Chota: Who was fighting?

Mr Mwenya: Which ones?

Mr Sichilima: Sir, in this House we are like a church. If a preacher is agitating violence, the followers will take heed.

Ms Lundwe: Yes!

Mr Sichilima: By this I mean that if one is elected to become President, the moment he is elevated to that position, he must be respected as President.

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: However, in this country, things are different. The moment somebody is elevated to the position of President, others are busy making programmes to campaign in either Matero or Chifubu for the 2011 elections. This action means that if you do not accept me as your leader today, when you become a leader tomorrow, I will also not accept you. It is as simple as that.

Sir, I heard some hon. Members talk about democracy and yet they do not practise it. Some colleagues in our party were asking why we have not had a convention yet. However, I wish to tell them that they must first take stock of other parties including the big ones they were referring to. When did they last go for a convention?

Ms Lundwe: Eeh, tell them!

Mr Sichilima: Leaders in some of these parties are just hand picked. Some of them are running their parties in the pockets of the family. They have turned their parties into limited companies.

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Their source of money includes what is perceived as a gift from well-wishers. This money is not even accounted for. I recall when we lost one of our colleagues in here, the money that was contributed by the Members of Parliament towards the funeral was chewed by the members of some party

Mr Speaker: Order! The word ‘chewed’ is not parliamentary.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You shall withdraw it.

Interruptions

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘chewed’ and replace it with the phrase ‘pocketed the money which was meant for the funeral’. That was simple money. What about the other moneys that they collect which we do not know about? This is the time when we needed our partners the non-governmental organisation (NGOs) to speak loudly about some of these parties and where they take the money they collect. These parties have never been audited before but they come in here and talk about democracy. What are they preaching to us? We would love to see them practising what they preach.

Dr Katema: UNIP mulilo ka?

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I would now like to talk about the slogan, ‘One Zambia One Nation.’ Some hon. Member, on the Floor of this House, spoke as if this slogan has ever been broken. From the time Zambia got independence, it was declared as ‘One Zambia One Nation’ and we have always lived like that. That is the reason why when this Government talks about developmental issues, there is no corner of this country where development has not reached. Therefore, it is not right for a Member of Parliament to come to this House and mislead the people that no development is taking place in some corners of this country. Where development is concerned, we do not look at the race, height or tribe of a person. We look at Zambia as one nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: We do not even look at the appearance of a person, like some Member of Parliament said, that, sometimes, even appearance is a factor. We do not even look at the appearance.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: No matter how short one may be or how big one may be, as long as he is a representative of a constituency and delivers developmental messages on time, or, indeed, that which is going to benefit Zambians, we look at it.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I would like to bring to your attention and was brought on the Floor of this House some time ago, is that of the immunity of the former Republican President. I am on record having debated and stating the reasons …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! That matter is dead.

May you continue?

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Sir, I would like to move on to another issue. I heard some Members of Parliament talking about some roads that have not been done and other issues related to roads. Mr Speaker, I recall when the former President was campaigning in 1991, on the Copperbelt, he asked those of us who were there a question: “If you started work and bought yourself a blanket or a pair trousers, would that be an achievement?” Some people said yes, but he said, “Come on guys, is it a necessity?” Therefore, this also applies to roads. It would not augur well for this Government to ignore repairing the existing roads. We have actually started repairing some of the roads, including tarring others. Hon. Chizhyuka commended us for this because there are many other projects that are related to roads that this Government is doing.

Unfortunately, when our colleagues come in here to debate about roads, it is like the whole country is on fire. Somebody listening outside this country might think that when he comes into this country, he will only end up at that the airport and not go anywhere else. Mr Speaker, for this reason, I want to confirm that all the roads of this country are being worked on, including the roads in Mbala which I know very well and the people there know me. Any small car can go to most of those villages.

Yes, I admit that there are areas we have not reached, but we are in the process of getting there when we complete the works on some of the roads we are working on. Therefore, our colleagues should not come here and tell us about plans on as to where we should go next. All they do is strip the Government.

Having talked about some of these issues, Mr Speaker, I wish to state that some of us, who have been privileged to travel, through you, when you send us outside the country, actually bring ourselves down. Yet we are highly appreciated outside the country. Firstly, the leadership of the current President is highly appreciated and there is a lot of respect commanded by him. Sadly, some leaders of certain parties and some people in this country are in the forefront of bringing down the name of the Head of State.

Outside the country, people wonder when they hear such things. We have been talking and singing about a peaceful nation and people and now we are talking about tourism but we are the same ones who stand on an anthill and say that the President is bad. I want to warn you that the Zambians and the people who are outside are judging each of us…

Mr C. Mulenga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Sichilima: Ikala iwe!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! You cannot address the Chair like that. Can you withdraw that phrase?

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the phrase “Ikala iwe”.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, we should remain the kind of people who have been known to be very peaceful and who talk good of ourselves. We should be proud, as a nation that we brought this leadership to this House and we should also respect the people that sent us here. We should also be the first ones to preach peace and love. We should co-exist.

Mr Speaker, we have seen that when we have elections or even by-elections because of some leaders moving with people who have undemocratic tendencies or those who disregard fellow human beings, we send people to attack others. In certain cases, those who are being attacked reiterate and that brings in what we call violence.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, you heard what happened in Kasama where a member of the MMD was tear gassed. That is a fellow human being. Just imagine tear gassing your own child or brother. This brings us to the issue of the media. Our colleagues feel that they have image builders somewhere. This is destroying the country. They think it is image building but it is destroying the country.

Mr Speaker, if you read some newspapers - if it was the Government doing what the Opposition is doing in the name of image building - it would have been an issue of name calling. Instead, the Opposition is nursing the whole thing like they would to golden eggs and yet they are destroying the country. You read the headlines hoping that there is something new to read so that, as a leader, you are guided but you find that inside the story, there is something else being said.

Mr Speaker, through you, I want to remind them that it is not image building but image destruction. It has made the outside world look at us differently.

Mr Speaker, I now want to comment on people who are appointed by the President. Some people just wake up and say, they want His Honour the Vice President, the Director of Public Prosecutions or even a chief to be dropped. There are rules and regulations that we follow in this country and they are stipulated in the Constitution of the land. Unfortunately, there are some colleagues who are in the forefront of calling for such because they do not understand the Constitution. This shows us why they did not even want to attend the National Constitutional Conference. There are laws being made at the NCC and when the time for implementation comes, we will start teaching them and so I would like to advise them that they need to start reading before the draft that we are working on is presented to them. I would like to say that the NCC is on course and everything being deliberated there is for the benefit of the Zambian people.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to talk about the non-governmental organisations. I would like to say that the NGOs should be realistic because they live comfortably and so they should think of the people living in the rural areas. They should not just parade in Lusaka. That is why some people have high blood pressure for fear of being locked up.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks.

Mr Speaker, the speech is visionary and futuristic and it just depends on who is actually reading it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to join my colleagues in sending condolences to the families of the two hon. Members: Hon. Tetamashimba and Hon. Hamir.

Mr Speaker, a speech is like a text book. It depends on who is reading the speech. I remember that when I was in Grade VII, I was with people who were reading the same books I was reading but they did not pass. In Grade 12, again, they were reading the same books I was reading but they did not pass. Even at college, the people who were reading the same books I was reading could not understand them and so I understand when some colleagues there say the speech is whatever name because they belong to those people …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I now want to say something about 2011. Some of our colleagues think that we are sleeping or we are on leave. One thing that a certain party has not realised is that it is going into oblivion.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: It has just been given a small section of Zambia and the rest of Zambia will be dominated by my party, the MMD.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: This part must realise that by so agreeing, it is going into oblivion. By 2011, that clever gentleman will say, “I do not think the pact will work because when I look at things, I find that I am more popular than you …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … and so you go your own way.”

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to take the debate of my hon. Deputy Minister as my own. I cannot say it as good as his, but we agreed that I should concentrate on culture. We say culture is a fundamental dimension of social and economic development. If it was Hon. Lungwangwa, he would have said it is a sine qua non of development.

Every institution has its own culture and when one goes to there, they must study and understand its culture. When some of us came into Parliament, we were very uncomfortable because we wanted to learn the culture of the National Assembly. We wanted to be inducted so that we could understand the culture that exists here because it is different from that in a pub. However, we have people who would bring, to this House, the culture that is found in the pub.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am talking about culture. You will find that a farmer, when knocking off from his farm, can pick two cobs of maize to go and roast at home, but in a bank, you cannot take two notes to go and buy mealiemeal because that is going to be theft. If it is from your farm, if I can borrow the saying from other people, they will say ‘bubomba mwi bala alya mwibala.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Meaning the one who works in a field eats from the field. So, you must understand culture. What I can say to my friends here …

Hon. Opposition Member: Where?

Mr Kaingu: … especially somewhere here …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … we must, indeed, understand what culture is all about. Even in leadership, there are values, beliefs, norms and customs that we should follow. Even when you go to your constituencies, there are certain things which you cannot do because there are children who will be copying from you. They will say this is what Hon. Kambwili is doing. Sorry, he is not in the House. Who is another follower apart from him?

Hon. Members: Mwila.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! That is why we must not debate ourselves. You may continue.

Mr Kaingu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement. We should look at culture as the only way to develop our country. If you look at our friends in the Far East, economically, we call them the tigers. These are Taiwan and Singapore. They have embedded culture in their development and you have seen their work culture. In fact, if you look around, you will discover that we have problems with Chinese investors because their culture is to work very hard even at awkward hours, whereas a Zambian’s culture is to go to work at 0900 hours and knock off at 1600 hours. He or she cannot even give a reason he or she woke up from bed to go to the office.

Mr Speaker, if we are going to ignore culture, we will do it at our own peril. We really have to concentrate and accept particularly, when it comes to institutions. The reason, for instance, we have problems at the University of Zambia (UNZA) or other universities or colleges is because the children who go there do not understand the culture there. They do not know what they go there for. For example, those who have gone to the universities, I am not attacking anybody, but just referring to those who have gone to university in general. 

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, when one goes to the university, he or she is treated as an adult because people believe that one must understand the culture there. This way, a boy is able to interact with the girls because he is presumed to be mature.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Do you understand? The biggest problem that we have is that the people who go to the university, today, are not inducted so they do not know why they are at university. At university, it is presumed that you are now an adult, a matured person who is able to make decisions. You are not going there to break people’s wind screens nor beat up people, but it is presumed that you know that now you are going there to learn so that you come out of the university as a future leader. This is about culture.

Mr Speaker, to my colleagues, particularly those on the other side, they must understand that as we sit here, this House has its old culture, beliefs and norms which we should follow. It is really disturbing that we can come here, you, Mr Speaker, keeps saying “order!” to adults who are supposed to know why they are here. They are supposed to understand what is found here and what the culture of National Assembly is?

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, culture is not just about traditional dances, no. Every institution has its own culture.

Hon. Opposition Member: Alangizi.

Mr Kaingu: So, I really want to dwell on this so that from tomorrow …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: .. .we will see, from today, change so that we behave like we are leaders ...

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … because leadership has culture. You must understand, as a leader, where you are. When you are in a pub, you can take your jacket like the Lozis and wrap it around your waist and dance, but you cannot do that here.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, if you cannot control us, we will have a situation where one day one of us will take his jacket and wrap it around his waist.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … because we do not understand why we are here.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That shall never happen.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me look at culture in tourism because there is what we call cultural tourism.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: In the whole world, Zambia is the only country with seventy-nine traditional ceremonies and different dances. Other dances are characterised by the use of hands while others the use of heads.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: We have failed to take advantage of that culture. For example, let us talk about the Likumbi Lyamize. It is a world renowned traditional ceremony, but we have failed, my brother Hon. Kakoma, has failed to invest into such a rich culture. Ideally, he should have built a cultural village so that tourists, instead of sleeping in lodges would sleep at the cultural village. This way, they would learn about how the Zambians, particularly, the Luvales of the North-Western Province live. We have failed, and yet we see our colleagues, dominating the Africa Magic channel on the digital satellite television (DSTV).

Mr Speaker, our friends, the Nigerians, have mainstreamed their culture into development. As I speak to you, today, their movies are second to oil and they make money. Really, when you look at the culture depicted in the movies, it is just a matter of painting the eye of a character and referring to him as the great one, and yet they make money out of this. However, look at the rich culture of the Kuomboka, Kusefya Pang’wena and Ncwala that we have failed to mainstream into our development. Therefore, what I can say to the hon. Members of Parliament is that it is very simple, just come to Hon. Kaingu who is doing his PHD in cultural tourism and he will show you.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Yes, I will help you mainstream your culture into …

Business was suspended from 1815 hours to 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, those comments are an example of some people’s culture and, therefore, I do not have to say much about it. As I conclude, however, I want to say something about chimbuye.

Hon. Opposition members: What is chimbuye in English?

Mr Kaingu: Chimbuye is cousinship.

Mr Syakalima interjected.

Mr Kaingu: He is uncultured.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: He just has tradition and no culture. Chimbuye …

Hon. UPND Members interrupted.

Mr Kaingu: I have already told you what culture is.

The Deputy Chairperson: Just ignore them and debate.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, chimbuye means that if an elderly person like Mr Munkombwe, who is my cousin, cracks jokes about me, I must be mindful of his age. I may not use the same jokes that he uses on me against him because of the age difference. I am sure my cousin, Hon. Hachipuka, will testify to that because he has called me names in this House, but I have failed to do the same because he is older than me. So, it is very important that even as we tease each other as traditional cousins, we observe age differences. When you are on the receiving end …

Mr Chota: Is that culture?

Mr Kaingu: Yes, it is culture.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: In our culture, one must respect elders whether they are cousins or not. If Hon. Munkombwe or Hon. Hachipuka crack dirty jokes about me, I will wait for my time to find a Tonga who is junior in age and …

Hon. Government Members: And hammer.

Mr Kaingu: … and hammer.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: If an elderly Ngoni is cracking jokes on a young Bemba …

Hon. Members: Like the Chair.

Mr Kaingu: … I do not know about the Chair …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … this young Bemba must wait to find a younger Ngoni to take revenge on. This is what I mean when I say that there should be respect even in chimbuye or cousinship.

Mr Speaker, with those very few words, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker ….

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chongo: … I thank you for giving this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Presidential Speech. From the outset, I would like to also pay tribute to our late Members of Parliament, Hon. Hamir and Hon. Tetamashimba. I also wish to say that Hon. Tetamashimba’s name will not be forgotten in Mwense Constituency, particularly by the two chiefs in my area and I. He did certain great things just in the short period that he was at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. He allowed me to use part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to finish building the two chiefs’ houses in my area so that they could have proper accommodation. Therefore, the two chiefs were very sad when they heard about his demise. Indeed, we, as a country, have lost a hardworking citizen.

Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duty if I did not also thank the Government. I was elected as hon. Member of Parliament for Mwense Constituency to represent my people by bringing to the attention of the Government the needs of the people of my constituency. Indeed, this Government has done a lot of good things in my constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: It is now left to see whether the people in Mwense will also thank me for having reasoned with this Government over the many problems that we have had …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: … and it has been helpful.

I want to thank the Ministry of Education for having listened to the cries of the people of Mwense Constituency over not having been able to send our children to high schools. In the next few weeks or months, the construction of a very good high school will be completed. This school may even be the second biggest in the province.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: I also want to commend the contractors, Apollo Contractors, that are working on this project for the great job being done. This contractor, even without the Government giving it a down payment, has been able to find its own money and continued with the project. I want to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education that we would like to open this school, probably, by January, 2010. However, there is landscaping that requires to be done at the project site because the school structure, as it is, is surrounded by bush which needs to be cleared quickly.

Mr Speaker, I am still thanking this Government.
 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, it was only last week when the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives was asked where dams are being constructed in this country. The hon. Minister said that about two dams, Chiwemempulu and Mubende, were sunk in Luapula Province. Those dams are in my constituency and I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that.

Mr Speaker, I also would like to thank the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development for answering our cries. I made several visits to the hon. Minister’s office to ask him to electrify the market areas in my constituency…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order we are consulting a bit loud, let us consult quietly.

Mr Chongo: … under the Rural Electrification Programme. The hon. Minister was quick to answer and, as I speak, this assignment has already been given to a contractor. What else can we say about this Government? It is working indeed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chongo: I also wish to thank the hon. Minister of Health, of course, in anticipation. Sir, you may wish to know that early this year, in January, I spoke with the then hon. Minister of Health, Dr Chituwo, asking him to give the people of Mwense a district hospital. The current hon. Minister of Health replied to my letter which we wrote to the ministry requesting them to build a district hospital. He said that they will be building a district hospital in 2010. I hope, hon. Minister, you are going to fulfill that. Mr Speaker, this shows that there is a caring Government in place, the Government that is answering the needs of its people.

Mr Speaker, being an Opposition Member of Parliament does not mean that I should not thank the Government when they provide quality services to the people in my constituency. I need to thank them for the things that they are doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: It is against this background that the people of Mwense District and Luapula Province in general have resolved to work with the people who are working. They have resolved to work with the hon. Members of Parliament who are working and also resolved to work with a Government that is giving them hope which they have seen. The people of Luapula Province are supporting this Government. Therefore, I would like to thank you for a job well done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: In this regard, I would like to implore this Government not to relent because if you do, we risk giving this Government to wrong hands.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: We risk giving this Government – and some people have already described it as snakes with different heads.

Laughter

Mr Chongo: We do not want this to happen. Therefore, I would like to implore you to work very hard and for the sake of the people …

Ms Cifire gave Mr Chongo some water to drink.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I am wondering why the hon. Deputy Minister has moved to quickly give water to the person debating. Continue debating.

Laughter

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, if you will not step up, we risk giving the governance of this country into unpredictable hands. We are inviting dictatorship in this country if you relent, and if it lands on the other head of this snake, we risk bringing tribalism in this country which we are not ready to accept. Therefore, I would like to implore you to work very hard. I would have loved to say a bit more, but suffice to say, work very hard just like you are doing.

Mr Speaker, let me also commend His Excellency the President for conceding that we have developed health services more in urban areas than rural areas. This is a great thing to hear from a President, and because of this observation by His Excellency the President, I also would like to request you to shift the attention to rural areas. We know that people in other areas need hospitals, but we need health services more in rural areas because of the nature of rural areas.

For instance, if a hospital is located in an area like here where we are, you expect people to cover a distance of about 70 kilometres to reach this hospital. It is for this reason that I would like to encourage you to put up more hospitals. In areas that are hard-to-reach, we need mobile health services. Therefore, can you speed up on this one.

Mr Speaker, I also would like to talk about mining. The President talked about the lives of Nkana and Konkola Mines being extended. Admittedly, they are opening up open pit mines in other areas. However, it saddens me to note that at Mufulira Mine in Mufulira Town, we do not have any hope that nearer that place we can open up new mines once the current mines that we are working on are exhausted. It is for this reason that I would like to ask this Government to think about the people in Mufulira. What is going to become of these miners once copper mining comes to an end since we have not prepared them? We have not diversified our economy and this is the time that we need to encourage our miners to take up land and diversify from mining to agriculture. Not only that, we also need to diversify by way of looking out elsewhere where we can open up mines. These people who live in Mufulira may not be reluctant to relocate themselves from where they are, for instance, from Mufulira to Mansa or Mwense once mines are opened up in those areas. Mr Speaker, I think mining does not only give employment to those who are directly employed by the mining houses. It also gives employment to those who supply the services, the contractors who are working in these mines.

Mr Speaker, I am asking this Government to protect the suppliers and contractors. Indeed, we have many suppliers both foreign and local, but there is a lot of competition, especially from foreigners. Sometimes, it is unjustifiable preference that these foreigners are awarded contracts by the mining houses. I would like you to look into that area so that these suppliers and contractors can be supported for them to remain viable.

It is very saddening to note that one company for instance, these mining companies do not want to buy products from Scaw Industry in Kitwe which produces meal balls which they use in the milling plant. The mining houses are reluctant, for unknown reasons, to buy meal balls from these manufacturers. They are opting to buy meal balls from South Africa, for instance and yet the material that they are using is the scrap which they get from this country. Therefore, let us stop exporting scrap metal so that we deprive them of the material and by so doing, we are going to give a chance to our own manufacturers to sell those meal balls.

Mr Speaker, on the road infrastructure, we have been crying about the Tuta/Mansa/ Kashikishi Road. The Government has released money to start resurfacing the Tuta/Samfya Road up to Mansa. Maybe in the next one month or so, this stretch will be completed. However, it will not be complete until the other stretch from Mansa/Mwense to Kashikishi is resurfaced. Therefore, I urge the Government to see to it that the Mansa/Mwense/Kashikishi Road is given attention by patching up potholes.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: On crop marketing …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There is a lot of noise coming from my right.

You may continue.

Mr Chongo: … the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) released money for buying the produce …

Dr Kalumba: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalumba: Sir, I am reluctant to disturb my brother who is debating well. Is he in order not to include Kashikishi/Luchinda Road in his debate?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I am sure he has heard.

The hon. Member for Mwense may continue.

Mr Chongo: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before the point of order was raised, I had just started talking about roads infrastructure, and in particular, the Kashikishi/Luchinda Road. The Government promised to tar this road. It has been gravelled, but more needs to be done.

On the crop marketing, the Food Reserve Agency released money to buy maize, but I am sure the House is aware that Luapula Province grows a lot of cassava. What we require are markets. I urge the Government to look into this and make sure that they open up more markets.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to inform the House that our traditional chiefs in Luapula Province are grateful for the work being done. Because of this, they have resolved to work with the Government and not with people who have unpredictable minds. These are people who can, today, stand and say one thing and again say something else tomorrow. What kind of leadership is this? It is for this reason that traditional chiefs have resolved to work with the Government.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: This country should not be put on fire. Let them not take things for granted. Yes, this Government may not be perfect, but it gives a lot of hope. If they want to gamble, let them do so.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of Non-governmental Organisations (NGOs), they have been talking about morality in this country and so forth. I would like to remind this august House that it was reported that hon. Members in the United Kingdom abused public resources …

Mr Malama: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating …

Hon. Government Members: Very well.

Mr Malama: … very badly …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Malama: … in order to speak in that manner without proving a point by resigning so that we meet in the field?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I did not hear the hon. Member refer to anybody. In all fairness, he is in order.

The hon. Member for Mwense may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that it was reported that hon. Members of Parliament in the UK abused public resources. If it were reported in Zambia, these same people …

Hon. Member: Which people?

Mr Chongo: … the NGOs and their foreign partners would have been standing on the platform to shout at hon. Members of Parliament in Zambia. They have failed to take measures against what has happened in the UK and so they should not fool us by lecturing. Zambians know what is good for Zambia. The British must know what is good for them. The Swedish must know what is good for Sweden. We will resolve to give governance to ourselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: We have the brains to lead this country. Abash!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member on the Floor should not bring in platform slogans. The hon. Member must just debate the points that he has.

You may continue.

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word, “Abash”.  I was elected in 2006 and I have been given a mandate up to 2011. It would not be right for me to start thinking of resigning because I was not elected in Lusaka but from Mwense. Let the people of Mwense vote against me, but they will, also, have to wait until 2011. I will be working for them because I have identified the potential to drive the constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to join those who have debated before me by wishing the souls of Hon. Tetamashimba and Hon. Hamir rest in peace. However, I want to appeal ...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I have always said that we should listen to the person debating. You must consult quietly. I appeal to the hon. Member for Nkana to consult quietly. Do not begin pointing fingers at each other in the House.

The hon. Member for Isoka West may continue.

Mr Sichamba: Sir, I attended the funeral of Hon. Tetamashimba. I would like to appeal, through His Honour the Vice-President, that the best way we can remember him is by sponsoring the children left behind to better education, Hon. Hamir as well.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the speech delivered by His Excellency the President. Some hon. Members who spoke before me said that the speech was hollow. The Bible says the wise came from the East …

Ms Cifire: Indeed.

Mr Sichamba: … and I think this is what I saw in the President’s Speech. I would like to congratulate His Excellency the President for the speech he delivered to this august House because the speech was well meaning and it has a vision for this country. Any meaningful Zambian should appreciate the President’s Speech. We should thank the President for delivering such a speech in the wake of the global economic crisis.

Mr Speaker, I am still greatly humbled by the leadership of His Excellency the President, particularly with the way he has handled national issues, some of which have been very critical. He has been criticised and insulted from some quarters. This does not augur well with me. We need to give respect to elders. Look at the way the President handled issues during the funeral of the late President. He deserves respect for this.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President has proved himself by bringing former Presidents together. That is what you need in a wise leader. The former Presidents have contributed to the wellbeing of this nation.

Mr Speaker, the first President was mentioned in the President’s Speech to the effect that he would be involved in the tree planting exercise.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, some of us who are criticising the former Presidents should be aware that they contributed in their own way. The first President helped by sending away the colonial masters and we are now enjoying peace and freedom. There is no need for us to start hurling insults on the former Head of State.

Mr Speaker, people are busy scolding the second President. We should understand that he is also human and may have gone wrong. Where I come from, we do not wish someone to go to jail when he is just human. We must understand that he is human and he contributed a lot to this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Sichamba:  There could be areas where he might not have done well, but did well in others.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about democracy, we are enjoying it today because of the second President.

Interruptions

Mr Sichamba:  Not only this, even the mushrooming of these political parties that we see today was made possible by the second President.

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr Sichamba:  Mr Speaker, we should remember that we used to queue for commodities such as sugar and bread.  In the transport sector, the United Bus Company (UBZ) enjoyed monopoly. However, some of the people in the Opposition, such as Hon. Mushili, are now enjoying their businesses in the transport industry because the second President made the environment in this sector conducive.

Interruptions

Mr Sichamba: He brought liberalisation.

Mr Mushili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member debating in order to talk about my achievements in life, which I have sweated for without the contribution of a single cent from the past Presidents? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: That point of order serves to remind me to guide the House that we should not discuss ourselves. We should not discuss individuals, but issues. To that extent, the hon. Member for Isoka West was not in order.

You may continue, please.

Mr Sichamba: I am much obliged, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about liberalisation, we know that the trading environment was made conducive for every Zambian.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members:  Aah!

Mr Sichamba:  Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duties if I did not commend his Excellency the President for urging this House to increase the Budget allocation for the Ministry of Health.

Mr Speaker, we should know that when we give more resources to district hospitals, this will go a long way in alleviating the suffering of our people and will improve health service delivery. It will also …

Mr Mwenya interjected

Mr Sichamba:  Mr Speaker, I do not want to answer back, but I feel I must be protected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are protected. Hon. Member for Nkana, you know that it is not good to engage somebody when he or she is speaking because you distract their line of thinking. Please, give the hon. Member a chance to debate.

You may continue, please.

Mr Sichamba:  Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health should go further to monitor these resources which will be channeled to district health hospitals because some of these funds, if not properly monitored once channeled to the districts, do not serve the intended purpose.

Mr Speaker, I would, again, be failing in my duties if I did not commend the Government for giving me more than three health posts in Isoka District. This will go a long way in alleviating the problem my people are facing.

However, some of these health posts were not planned for under the Ministry of Health because they were built either through the donors or other well wishers. These hospitals, therefore, have not been on the establishment register of the district. Our appeal is that the hon. Minister of Health should consider sending staff to these health posts.

Mr Speaker, again, I want to commend the Government for releasing K400 million to a contractor to put up Kafwimbi Maternity Annex. To date, this contractor has not been on site. My appeal is that there is a need to probe this contractor so that this money is put to good use.

Mr Speaker, Isoka District Hospital has been under construction for almost nine years. I appeal that we ensure that the hospital is completed. It is almost complete and I know that the listening Government will do something about it.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, many members have debated the FSP. I would like to thank the Government for increasing the number of beneficiaries from 200 to 500. This will go a long way. However, I wish to appeal to the Government to consider sending more fertiliser to Isoka District because our people are great farmers.

Mr Speaker, regarding maize purchasing, the people of Isoka are now very happy because we have received funding from the Government and the marketing exercise is going well.

Mr Speaker, I remember that the Government introduced a Bill in the House on the introduction of a Crop Marketing Authority, but was rejected by the other side. We should know the future implications of the rejection of some of the Bills that are brought before the House. That Bill would have worked well for us as Government.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of roads, the Government has procured road equipment. This is a commendable job which will help with the maintenance of feeder roads in our constituencies. However, I want to appeal that funding to provinces should improve. Provinces vary in size. For Example, Northern Province, which now has twelve districts and twenty-one constituencies, was given K2 billion. When shared, K2 billion is not adequate for the works that need to be done in the province.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: I would like to say that the hon. Minister of Works of Supply has done well to advertise these projects in advance, but let us ensure that they are worked on. I have noticed that when some of the projects are advised, at the end of the day, they are just on paper.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Kamba mwana, Kaka you must listen!

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duties if I do not talk about the Mbesuma Bridge. This is critical to the people of Northern Province because district heads from Isoka, Nakonde and Chinsali face difficulties when supervising projects. They travel long distances through Mpika via Nakonde. If the Mbesuma Bridge is constructed, it will address some of the problems that these people are facing. It will even serve the purpose of the Mwanawasa Bridge because it is shorter to pass through the Mbesuma Bridge to the Copperbelt.

Mr Lubinda: To maintain the legacy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, I would also like to say something on the provision of clean water. I think the Government created these utility companies in good faith. The Government wanted to improve the water reticulation system throughout the country, but I have observed that the water utility companies have concentrated on the provision of water and neglected the sewerage system. I would like to appeal to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing that the situation in Isoka and Northern Province, in general, is pathetic. This is because the Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company is not performing its work to the best of its ability.

Mr Speaker, through you, I am appealing to the Government to recapitalise the Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company so that it can improve its service delivery.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the education sector, I appreciate that the Government has done a lot for the schools in my constituency. A number of them have been and others are yet to be renovated. I am appealing to the Government to look into the issue of desks for the schools in the constituency. Hon. Dr Solomon Musonda was saying that if the Government could get desks from Mupepetwe, may be its intended purpose would be achieved. He said that all the schools in his constituency have received desks from Mupepetwe. Let us fund Mupepetwe well so that all the constituencies can benefit.

Mr Speaker, I am appealing to the listening Government that Isoka Secondary School, which has been a Grade 1 school, has been there since 1965, but nothing much has been done for this school. I am appealing to the Ministry of Education to come to the aid of the people of Isoka because this school has produced a lot of intellectuals.  Not only that, but we also have the Muchinga High School which needs serious attention.

Mr Speaker, I also want to say something on tourism. I remember someone saying that only Kapenta, on Lake Tanganyika, is found in the Northern Province. Let us get to know that it is not only Kapenta which is found on Lake Tanganyika.

Dr Kalumba: Tell them!

Mr Sichamba: We should know that the Northern Province is blessed with a lot of tourism sites. I am happy that His Excellency the President spoke about the issue of improving tourism in the northern circuit. We should know that the Northern and Luapula provinces have tourism sites such as the Chishimba Falls, Kalambo Falls, Nachikuvu Curves, Ntumba Cushi and Chishiwa Hot Spring. For those that would like to take their families for a holiday, the best place is the Northern Province because there are a lot of tourism sites.

Mr Speaker, I also want to appeal to the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development to create a fuel reserve maybe in Mpika which will cater for the people of Northern Province.  Fuel comes through Nakonde as a finished product, but it becomes very expensive to transport it back to the Northern Province.

Mr Speaker, I would not like to bore you, but wish to end my debate now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many that have spoken on the speech for the Official Opening of the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly which was delivered in this House by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Mr Speaker, I would like to begin by saying that on behalf of the people of Kabushi and, indeed, on my own behalf, I wish to extend my heartfelt condolences to the two families of the late hon. Members of this House. May their souls rest in peace?

Secondly, I want to congratulate and welcome the newly elected Member of Parliament for Chitambo Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, I would like to give him a bit of advice. As you have always guided that hon. Members should either take advice or not, what I would like to say is that, as a new hon. Member, if I where him, I would have given 10 per cent of my first salary to the hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office, Hon. Gaston Sichilima for his splendid performance in Chitambo and …

Laughter
Mr Msichili: … at Tuta Junction, to be specific.

Laughter

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, I know that Parliament does not take rumours, but there is a strong rumour that Hon. Sichilima wishes to change his name very soon. He would like to be called ‘Hon. Gaston Esther Phiri Sichilima’.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Get to the substance of your debate because those rumours are not good.

Continue, please.

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, getting back to the speech, I picked a few issues which I thought I should share with this House. The first one is on debt management. Although the President said that Zambia’s debt is sustainable, the situation on the ground does not reflect what the president said.

For example, when you look at the ordinary Zambians in this country, how many of them have benefited from the debt relief that we attained. This is why we would like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, as he comes to present the Budget Speech, to give a comprehensive report which will show the levels of how Zambians have benefited from the debt relief.

Mr Speaker, it is sad to see the Government securing loans with very little or no tangible results. Look at the number of loans that have been obtained recently. When I compare the loans that have been secured with development, I see that no development is taking place, especially in Kabushi Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Msichili: We must appreciate that Zambians sacrificed a lot for this country to attain the Highly-Indebted Poor Countries Completion Point (HIPC), but what has happened? Let us not let the people down.

  For the first time, we have been reprieved. After acquiring so many debts, we might not have another chance. Therefore, we are asking this Government to be mindful of whatever they are doing and put the country’s resources to good use.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, with regards to agriculture, let me talk about the exporting of maize. It seems that we do not learn a lesson from the past experiences we have had in this country. With a presumed surplus, already we are talking about exporting maize. The hon. Minister came to this House and indicated that we are ready to export 100,000 tonnes of maize. Very soon, you will find that we will start importing the same maize which we are now exporting. This time we will be using our hard earned foreign exchange and buying the maize at a higher price than we sold it. Therefore, these are some of the issues that require solutions from the Government.

Mr Speaker, a lot of money is being pumped into the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), but what results are we seeing? We must subject the FRA to a microscopic review. It must be audited. What is happening to the profits which are being made because year in year out, we just keep on pumping money into the FRA. We must see to it that this institution is audited.

Sir, I also want to talk about the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). The logic behind  the reduction of the fertiliser pack by 50 per cent and the increase of beneficiaries in order to improve on efficiency does not hold any water. What system has the Government come up with to ensure that the fertiliser that will be given out in the programme does not find itself back on the market for resale at a higher price? These are some of the issues that need to be looked at critically. If the Government decides to come up with a new system, let it come and give us the exact details on way they want to do  things.

Mr Speaker, with regards to health, the system which the Government has put in place is that all the money should be directed to the end users. Of course, I think this will help to curtail corruption. I would want to urge the Government to ensure that money is released on time. Whatever has been budgeted for, must be released because releasing the money in bits breeds corruption in the country. We read about all these issues day in day out. It is high time that the Government puts in place measures which will stop all these thefts which are going on.

Mr Speaker, I would want to say that the system which the Government wants to use when funding the Ministry of Health should also apply to other ministries. The money should be directed to the end users. For example, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing would really need this kind of system. That way, we will have a bit of development in this country. The importance of the local government system has not been recognised for a long time. It is high time that the Government changed its policy regarding the local government system because the funding there has been pathetic. That is why you will find that over the years, there has been very little or no development has come about as a result of the work being done by the local authorities. We therefore, appeal to the Government that the same system that they want to use in the Ministry of Health should also be extended to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. It is an open secret that the Central Government has really abandoned the local authorities. It is high time that things were reversed.

 

Mr Speaker, we appreciate the move by this Government to open up more land through the councils. However, I would like to urge the Government to speed up the process of de-gazetting the forest reserves. For instance, 60 per cent of land in Ndola is under the Forestry Department. We would like the Government to speed up the process so that we can have more land in Ndola for development.

Mr Mwenya: Hear, hear!

Mr Mschili: The rest of the land is under Chief Chiwala and so we do not have much land for development. We, therefore, urge this Government to speed up the process.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mschili: Mr Speaker, on the issue of disaster management, I am glad that the President acknowledged in this House that in the absence of a legal framework in which to operate, the DMMU is a disaster. How would you explain what happened in my constituency some two or three months ago where one family lost seven of its members? When we approached official from the DMMU, they folded their arms saying that assisting people who are having a funeral would be setting a bad precedent. Is it not a disaster when seven people die from one family? Then what is a disaster? These are some of the things that we must really agree upon. People should change. Being told that it would be setting a bad precedent is short of being told to go to hell. We are appealing to this Government to change in his area.

Mr Mwenya: Hear, hear!

Mr Mschili: Mr Speaker, each time I debate, in the three years that I have been here, I refer to the media. There is the saying “When you pay it shows.” However, it is not showing. For the three years that I have been here, Today in Parliament, one of the programmes on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is still showing old hon. Members who were in Parliament a long time ago. What is ZNBC doing? They have gone to sleep and they have not woken up from the last Parliament. They think that up to now, it is the same old hon. Members of Parliament who are in this session.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mschili: Mr Speaker, this country has a mistaken belief that tourism is only about big issues that require funding. The Government has concentrated on Kasaba Bay and Livingstone and yet there are many other areas which require funding. There are a lot of features which can attract tourists in the seventy-two districts of this country. For instance, in Ndola, there is Chilengwa lesa, which used to be a tourist destination in the late sixties and early seventies. However, the place is completely abandoned now. There is also Lake Kashiba which attracted a lot of tourists. We are urging the Government to put together a deliberate policy that will help it to look into other areas. You must look at other areas where there is potential for tourism. There are places which really need funding because for a long time, they have gone without it.

Mr Speaker, as I said earlier that the Government thinks that Livingstone and Kasaba Bay are the only tourist destinations in the country. As the Bemba saying goes, “mupama pamo atulile in’goma.” I would like to urge this Government …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You did not tell us what that Bemba saying means.

Mr Mschili: Mr Speaker, I am sorry, but it has no meaning in English.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Withdraw that saying because it has no meaning.

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, I beg to withdraw it.

 Laughter

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to join my colleagues in supporting the change of the budget planning process. I believe that this should not end as a process, but rather a mechanism that will ensure that there is equity and the timely release of the much-needed resources is done on time. I would also want to add my voice to the many voices that have said that the CDF should be released without any further delay.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, if you remember very well, when Mr HIPC did not have a constituency, he used to release this money very late. It is good to say that he is now feeling it because he has a constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Msichili: He is also now crying for this money. Therefore, we are urging the current hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who, also, has no constituency right now to…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

That is not the issue. If you are appealing for the release of funds, do it nicely because if you begin describing them, they will not release the money.

 You may continue.

Laughter

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, we are also urging the hon. Minister to understand and, also, feel that we need this money. Most of the projects are not being carried out by the Government. Therefore, that money, really, helps us in doing some of these small works in our constituencies.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): I would like to thank you or according me this chance to debate.

Mr Speaker, I would, also, wish to send my condolences the families of the late Hon. Hamir and Hon. Tetamashimba. I am sure everybody still remembers that Hon. Tetamashimba’s roar still resonates in this country up to today.

Mr Speaker, I also have a theme for this debate this year and it is ‘The tragedy of Leadership Failure’. Whatever we say here and all the complaints put together, talk about leadership failure, and that is the tragedy in this country.

 Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, in a land mass of 750,000 square kilometres; a land where 62 per cent of that land is arable land; a land where sixty billion cubic litres of water lie unutilised underground; and a land where ninety billion cubic litres of water goes to waste every year, some places, like Western Province, live in poverty to the tune of 80 per cent. All that is a tragedy of leadership failure.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, how else would you have a land with vast arable land and the only percentage cropped is 6 per cent and only 0.6 per cent is under irrigation? With all that vast resource, the problem is leadership.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Sir, perhaps, let me join my colleague, Hon. Katele Kalumba’ debate when he referred to the President’s Speech as ‘harmless.’ Indeed, it is very harmless.

 Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Like any harmless thing, if a snake is harmless, just know that it has no venom. If somebody tells you, “I saw your daughter with that man” and then, somebody else says he is a harmless man, then, just know that there is nothing.

 Laughter

Mr Syakalima: I find it extremely difficult to regurgitate that there is nothing in the speech because I would not have spoken. How do you talk about something which is nothing?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: However, because the speech was about policy direction, I decided to speak, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Now, calm down a bit!

Mr Muyanda: Policy direction!

Mr Syakalima: Since it is about policy direction, I am anxious to see what will be in the Budget Speech on Friday and whether the speech is the anchor of that budget. I can predict that I will find nothing.

Ms Lundwe: Aah!

Mr Kakoma: There will just be salaries.

Mr Syakalima: There will just be figures.

Mr Chazangwe: Salaries!

Mr Syakalima: There will just be figures.

Mr Kakoma: Just salaries for civil servants.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, earlier on, I heard that by the end of this year, there will be 2,500 classrooms built. Do you know what that translates to?

Hon. Member: No, Sir!

Mr Syakalima: 112,500 school places against the backdrop of over 1 million children unable to access school places.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: That is what it translates to.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The question of being above or below you and all that does not apply.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, let us give him a chance to debate.

Mr Syakalima: Sir, I want you to see reality. Unless you do something about this, it is a drop on a very hot stone. We will only praise you if you build a school every five kilometres. In rural areas, many children still walk fifteen kilometres to find a school. Some of them walk thirty kilometres. Due to high poverty levels, some children go to boarding schools with makeshift houses. Where do want to take those children? Since you claim to have many doctors on the right side of Mr Speaker, how many of these children are going to become doctors in the next twenty years with this kind of governance system?

Sir, I heard someone talk about Phase II of the Cancer Centre being underway. Oh yes! It can be underway and yet Phase I has no specialists.

Mr Muyanda: There are no doctors!

Hon. Government Members: They are there.

Mr Syakalima: Up until now, we are still sending people with complicated cases outside this country.

Mr Muyanda: Yes!

Mr Syakalima: Now, you have decided to build another …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is only one person on the Floor. Please, give him time to debate.

You may continue.

Mr Syakalima: Obviously, you like making white elephants.

Dr Katema: Blue ones!

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Do you have compassion? Are you friends of the people?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!
Mr Syakalima: When the nurses went on strike, I want you to check whether you felt that compassion. Every government, certainly not this government, makes interventions when there are serious issues like these. Unfortunately, this Government remained mute for over thirty days. Many children and mothers died when they were being moved from one place to the other to seek medical attention.

Mr Imasiku: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Syakalima: Sadly, they were unable to find shelter where they could give birth …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 A point of order is raised.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is that hon. Member who is debating so passionately in order to allege that this Government did not do anything during the nurses’ strike when it was his party that was encouraging the nurses to continue with their strike?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Is he in order? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: I would like to advise that we should not debate that point of order. If any hon. Member wants to counter what the hon. Member on the Floor is saying, they can indicate their desire to speak. Can the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was asking where compassion lies because that is the virtue of a leader. You will never legislate compassion and honesty because those are virtues of a leader. So many women apart, from one case which has been publicised, did not find shelter from where to deliver. Even Jesus had to be delivered in a manger. At least, there was a place. However, at that time, there was a Government in place and it kept quiet for many days. That child who died would have been an engineer, nurse, medical doctor…

Hon. Member: Or even a street kid.

Mr Syakalima: That is lack of compassion. That child who died that day because there were no medical facilities …

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Let me give my personal feeling. When something of this nature was happening, my own wife was also delivering. I see no difference between that child who died and my own child.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, failure of systems of the Government culminates to the tragedy of leadership failure. We will never meet any these millennium development goals (MDGs) under this Government. This Government will change Presidents at that level, but when systems have failed, they are beyond redemption and irretrievable.

Mr Speaker, I pity my former student, Dr Solomon. How is he going to fit in? The problem is that when you enter a system, you have to behave like the system.

Mr Mulyata: Just like you are behaving like the UPND with two heads.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: You cannot change that. My uncle is saying that, but at another time, he will say something else.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: The hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development made a statement here, but the question still remains unanswered. How was a grant turned into a loan?

Mr Lubinda: Banadyamo!

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Kabwata CDF iwe!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Lubinda you must behave. When you or any other person is on the Floor debating, doing what you have just done does not help the smooth proceedings in the House. Will the hon. Member continue, please?

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, the question which is unanswered is why you dropped some part of the legacy. The late President, who was your colleague, negotiated for a grant, but because he is not here anymore, you converted it to a loan and the only answer we get is that the Cabinet decided.

How can you be saying that Cabinet decided to do something wrong? Now, you make people question if this does not spark corruption.

Mr Muntanga: Uuh!

Mr Syakalima: When you are unable to give an explanation, you justify that by saying that the Cabinet decided to change the grant to a loan, which was procured from a Chinese parastatal company, when the Government is busy trying to dismantle the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL).

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: What type of human beings are they?

Mr Muntanga: Ehe!

Hon. Opposition Member: Arrogant, ehe!

Mr Syakalima: Is this an unconvincing explanation you can give twice? What does it tell you, Mr Speaker? It is the tragedy of leadership failure.

UPND Member: Yah!

Mr Syakalima: Now, look at them.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Mulyata. Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The hon. Members on your right, can even boast about building fifteen, clinics is it hospitals for the whole country which has seventy-two districts.

Hon. Opposition Member: Look at them.

Mr Syakalima: Colleagues, when curtains fall, it is always advisable to get off the stage.

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct. Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: For this particular Government, the curtains have fallen and it will have to let go of the leadership of this country in 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: You have a mammoth task to change the thinking of the Zambians because, I think, they have suffered under the combined weight of your recklessness.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, just recently, I heard the hon. Minister of Home Affairs make reckless statements and I wish he was here. The study of the psychology of a human being states that immediately one starts making reckless statements, as the hon. Minister of Home Affairs did and his case, with the police officers also listening, trouble abounds. This is because oppressed people cannot live that way forever.

Mr Muntanga: Correct.

Mr Syakalima: Their yearn for freedom eventually ensues.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Like Martin Luther Kings said, do not bottle up people. Let them demonstrate and march so that their pent up frustrations are released.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Syakalima: If you bottle them up, they will never fear a teargas, button and not even a bullet. That is what Martin Luther King said. Let out pent up frustrations.

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Member: He is quoting Martin Luther.

Mr Syakalima: Yes, because I am very widely read.

Mr Muteteka: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: How can you be asking for points of order? I am not giving that point of order because there are must be order first.

Can you continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: For what, continue.

Mr Syakalima: So, Mr Speaker, I was just quoting Martin Luther King who said that oppressed people should be allowed to go to the mountain top and be left to demonstrate. He further warned that this was not a threat, but a fact of history.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The members of the Government want to create the impression that the country is under siege by referring to donors who fund certain people at some house in Makeni at night.

Hon. Opposition Member: Whose house is in Makeni?

Mr Syakalima: Whose house is in Makeni? We want the people who are involved in this practice to be arrested. Now, because of your speculative minds, unable to see reality, you are now shooting from the hip. Do not be fond of making accusations.  In a civilised society like this one, good governance is made to look like we just became a democracy. This country is even made to seem eeh …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker, I now want to sound some caution. We had, here, people from the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD), Heritage Party and so on who joined the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. In the end, when the time for adoption came, they were left out. Those in MMD are so intolerant, sometimes seemly engrossed in sanctimonious rhetoric.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Those who want to join the MMD should not think that they will be tolerated the way they have been tolerated by us. Therefore, whoever does not want the pact, from either the Patriotic Front (PF) or United Party for National Development (UPND), shall be willingly donated to the MMD …

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … so that they can go and face the intolerance there. If the people on your right cannot be tolerant to Hon. Mpombo, Hon. Magande and even the Western Province …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! Let us not go into mentioning names. Debate generally.

Mr Syakalima: If they cannot tolerate their own people, I wonder whether they will tolerate outsiders. However, as for us, whatever name we may be called, we are going ahead with the pact. I am even wondering why the MMD hon. Members are worried. If this thing will not work, they will still be in Government. Personally, I have nothing to lose if the pact does not work. I will come here and continue doing what I am doing right now …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … and I am very happy. The people who will be in trouble are the hon. Members on your right and not the Opposition. What we want to do is very clear while they are still undecided. This why they are now crying everyday. Why should you be crying about things that we have done? Are we crying for you?

Laughter

Mr Syakalima:  You have no reason …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon Member!

I am worried because once you start using the word “you” and so on, you are actually inviting comments from the Executive. Address them through the Chair.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, I am telling them that we have consummated something that Zambians wanted. If we had not done it, these people would remain in Government and the tragedy of leadership failure would continue, but Zambians have refused. I hope that is clear. It was unfortunate to hear somebody say that he was given a school and so he was very grateful. A school is not given to the hon. Member of Parliament, but to the people. Moreover, one can only be thanked if those in Government are volunteers. They are not volunteers, but elected by the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: They have a responsibility to take development to the people. I will never ask anybody to pat my back. Have you ever heard of teachers telling parents to be grateful to them for teaching their child? Of course not, because teachers get a salary.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Syakalima: That is a fact. Hon. Members of the Executive are paid because they have to do something. It is not even their money but public funds.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to reiterate that the tragedy of leadership failure has to go. Today we have willingly donated to the MMD those in PF and UPND who do not want the pact.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to that of the others who have spoken before me. As a true Zambian and African, before I proceed with my debate, I would like to also send my sincere condolences to the families of the two departed brothers namely; Hon. Tetamashimba, who was my brother in-law and Hon. Hamir, who was at one time a partner in business. No human being has control over death. The Lord, through Jesus His son said, “I am going back to prepare the way and a place for you.” Therefore, I am urging the two families to accept the death of our two brothers and hope and wish that we find them one day where the Lord has prepared a place for us all.

Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 7th October, 2009.

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