Debates- Wednesday, 4th February, 2009

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 4th February, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REHABILITATION OF THE ROAD TO THE HERITAGE SITE ON LUAPULA RIVER

64. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the rehabilitation of the road leading to the heritage site on the Luapula River, where the Luba-Lunda immigrants crossed into Zambia, would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the road falls under the local council and whenever we ask for submission of the roads to be included under local road authority or in the annual work plan, the Mansa Municipal Council, to which all the ward councillors and area Members of Parliament belong, this road has never been submitted. This indicates that the road is not a priority to them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the Ministry of Works and Supply committed about K30 million towards the establishment of this road and all I desire the ministry to do is to finalise the works they began? If he is not aware, has he consulted his junior officers in the province?

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, as I said in my answer, this road falls under the local authority. It is better for the hon. Member to go and consult the local authority so that they can explain to him why the road was not completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, last year, the local authority in Luapula Province identified two roads from each district and these roads were not worked on. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Government is going to rehabilitate these roads.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, it is not enough to identify a road, but to consider the availability of resources and, as the hon. Member may be aware, the council is also a road authority. The role of a road authority is not just to identify, but also do a costing to show how much it would cost to rehabilitate the identified road. If it is within their means, there will be no need for them to ask the Road Development Agency (RDA) to work on the road. That is why they are called a council because we expect them to do something as well.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, under the centralised style of Government of the MMD, heritage sites fall under the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, and not under local authorities. Could the hon. Minister, therefore, state categorically why the Government, through the ministry, is not identifying this heritage site as an important site requiring access through good roads?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is correct by stating that we are not responsible for heritage sites. We are responsible for roads. Therefore, if you identify a road that you think we can work on quickly, we will do it, but if it is a site, it must be worked on by the appropriate ministry and if they want our help in accessing the site, we will be available.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! There is no need to yell like that.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, my problem is that Mansa District Council has no capacity. What are we going to do so that this road is attended to?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to learn that their spokesperson is saying that Mansa District Council has no capacity. They do not have that information, yet. All we are saying is that we expect them as an authority, through the authority given to them by the RDA, to indicate to us if they want help of any kind. For now, we believe that what they are able to, they must do as a council. It is not enough to expect that the RDA will attend to every road in Zambia. This is why we appoint other road authorities so that they can carry on those works on their own.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, with respect to the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, regarding the two roads that were requested for the province to submit, was he briefed by his colleagues that the submission was in the context of the understanding that there were resources available only to do two roads?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, every year, we have annual works plans. The fact that two or more roads are submitted as a priority does not necessary imply that they will be done as requested. However, as soon as they fit in the programme and resources are available, they can be done. We acknowledge that they could have made submissions, but the country is big and we are getting submissions from all these hon. Members in this august House. Therefore, the mere fact that submissions are made is not a guarantee that the roads will be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, as a follow up to Hon. Lubinda’s question, where the hon. Minister admitted that it is, indeed, the duty of the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to take care of roads that lead to heritages sites, why did he find it fit to mislead us and indicate, in his initial answer, that it is the duty of the local authority when we know that, as a Government, their duties are all integrated?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Parliament was not paying attention. I said that the identification of heritage sites is a responsibility of the appropriate ministries. We only come in if they want us to assist on the rehabilitation of the roads leading to those sites.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, the identification of these roads was done in 2007 upon which the ministry assured us that the roads were to be worked on then. Can the hon. Minister explain why it has taken two years without undertaking the works on these roads?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is not telling us what the local authorities in which these sites are, have done. Secondly, the hon. Member of Parliament also receives Constituency Development Fund (CDF) every year.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, thirdly, when they want help, they are expected to submit their request and go on a queue like anyone else. You expect too much if you just make a submission and want to be attended to immediately. I have said that the hon. Members in this House make submissions for their roads on an annual basis. Now, which is a priority, somebody who came in 2005 or 2006? We must be patient enough to understand that these road works take a bit of time and they cost money. However, I keep saying that you are all councilors and you are not telling us what you are doing with the money that you are raising in those councils. In addition, you also receive grants from the Government.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: You are also not telling us what you do with those grants that you receive from the Government. If your attitude is to depend on the RDA to do all your roads when you are receiving grants and revenue in your respective councils, I feel sad for you.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: I will expect you to provide leadership by using the CDF and resources that the councils raise to provide services and attend to those requests that come from within your respective council areas. It is unfortunate if you think that everything you submit can be done by RDA.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Mulongoti: However, I have heard what Hon. Kambwili is saying about capacity. I will not answer him because I know what his capacity is too.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

MEASURES TO CURB EARLY MARRIAGES AMONG SCHOOL GIRLS

65. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education what measures the Government had taken to curb early marriages among school girls, especially in rural areas.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education, through school boards, Parent Teachers Associations (PTAs), stakeholders such as the Forum for African Women Education in Zambia (FAWEZA) and United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) conducts sensitisation campaigns about the ills of early marriages and the need for girls to remain in school.

Sir, the Government works with chiefs who have openly spoken to their subjects about the dangers of early marriages. Most chiefs have imposed sanctions on their subjects who have married off school girls.

Mr Speaker, as part of the sensitisation campaign against early marriages, schools do organise drama/plays on the ills of early marriages in the communities with the support of the Changes Programme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in some districts such as Chilubi, the measures the hon. Minister has just outlined have had never taken shape. When does he expect to extend such measures to places such as Chilubi where people still think that marrying young school girls off is one way through which they can access wealth?

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, the sensitisation programme is a continuous programme and we hope to cover all the various parts of the country. Since sensitisation, as we have indicated in our response, is a partnership process, we expect the hon. Member for Chilubi to join in that partnership so that he can co-ordinate, organise the various communities and carry out the sensitisation campaign against early marriages of girls.

Interruptions

Professor Lungwangwa: This is our responsibility and we must show leadership in such areas as hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, is the ministry thinking of coming up with a law which is going to prosecute parents or guardians who marry off young girls against their will?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali has raised a very important point. Zambia has a grand opportunity at the moment to legislate in areas which are identified as paramount for national development, and that is why we are sitting as the National Constitutional Conference (NCC)…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa:…to address such issues. The hon. Member for Munali should actually realise that this is an opportunity she is missing…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: … by not attending the NCC. It is a grand opportunity.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that sensitisation is a partnership. Is there any plan by the ministry to try and help those organisations like FAWEZA, through giving them a little grant each year so that they intensify their sensitisation, especially on girls’ education?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the resource constraint, of course, is a factor and as the hon. Member is very much aware, the demand on the available resources in the education sector is colossal. Clearly, we expect our partners, non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and various other partners to assist in mobilising resources to undertake a very important programme like this one. At the moment, we do not have such resources to extend, but we appeal to the goodwill of our co-operating partners, the NGOs and other organisations to join in this sensitisation campaign.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, there is a piece of legislation that states that having carnal knowledge of a minor is a criminal offence. Why has the Ministry of Education not utilised that law in rural areas to ensure that girls below the age of sixteen do not get into early marriages? It is important that people who are involved in this practice are brought to book, even if they are Members of Parliament.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, clearly, there are problems in enforcing such laws. As the hon. Member may be aware, we have Statutory Law and Customary Law. Customary Law is the one which may actually permit such practices. It is this law that requires strategies like sensitisation. That is why for us in the ministry, sensitisation is extremely important in order to change the value systems, norms and behavioural patterns, which are not line with achieving girls’ education.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister which takes precedence between Statutory Law and Customary Law as provided for in the Criminal Act, which states that if someone sleeps with a minor or marries someone below the age of sixteen, it is defilement.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is aware that the enforcement of the law goes beyond the Ministry of Education.

Hon. Government Member: Yes!

Professor Lungwangwa: What we have found as a strategy for now is sensitisation. That is the only way for us to go.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, it is the Ministry of Education which learns about young girls entering into early marriages. Besides sensitisation, has the ministry taken it upon itself to report these marriages to law enforcement agencies so that the law is enforced?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the issues being raised have to do with the enforcement of the laws that we have. Some inadequacies are being noted, but that is why we are sitting in the NCC to change some of these laws.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: That is also a reason the hon. Member should not run away from the NCC because …

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: ... we now have a grand opportunity to look at these issues much more critically. Hon. Members should not run away from the NCC.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

MONEY SPENT ON ROAD WORKS IN SOME CONSTITUENCIES FROM 2006 TO 2008

66. Mr Simuusa (Nchanga) asked the Minister of Works and Supply how much money had been spent on road works in the following Parliamentary Constituencies from 2006 to 2008:

(i) Nchanga;
(ii) Chipata Central;

(iii) Lufwanyama; and

(iv) Mongu Central.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the following amounts of money were spent on the maintenance of the roads in these constituencies from 2006 to 2008:

Nchanga

Year Name of Road Type of Works Amount (K)

2007 Kasope Road Rehabilitation 1,167,040,469.27

Central Avenue

Buntungwa Road

Independence Road

13th Street Rd

Total 1,167,040,469.27

Chipata Central

Year Name of Road Type of Works Amount (K)

2006 Mangwero Road Maintenance 84,770,000.00

2007 Great East Road-Stadium Maintenance 50,160,000.00

2007 Chipata/Chadiza Rd Routine Maint. 272,000,000.00

2008 Chipata/Champoyo Rd Routine Maint. 317,810,000.00

Total 724,740,000.00

Lufwanyama

Year Name of Road Type of Works Amount (K)

2007 Kalulushi/Ingwe Rd Maintenance and 4,720,092,915.00
Rehabilitation

Total 4,720,092,915.00

Mongu Central

Year Name of Road Type of Works Amount (K)

2006/2007 President Avenue Rehabilitation

Kambule St Rd

Airport Road

Arthur Wina Rd

Hospital Rd

Libonda Rd

Airport Car park Rd

Accelerated Urban Roads 4,767,803,385.00

2007 Shoprite Rd 9,100,000,000.00

2007 Batu Stadium Rd 318,000.000.00

2007 Mukoko Embankment Rd 95,728,937.00

Total 14,281,532,300.00

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, before I ask the hon. Minister my follow-up question, I want to correct him that some of the roads he said were in Nchanga are actually in Chingola Constituency.

Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell this House how fair and equitable it is that Nchanga, being the single largest contributor to this country’s economy has not a single road in good condition. This is not an exaggeration. How can this Government spend less than K1 billion from 2006 to 2008 on roads in Nchanga when random checks in the other constituencies, where the ruling party is popular, indicate that the roads are in better condition?

Mr Speaker, how fair is it and what is the hon. Minister going to do about it?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the people who have the responsibility of giving contracts have nothing to do with political parties. They are agencies of the Government. Works are carried out only after consultations have been done and resources are available. Therefore, I do not think that there is anybody who decided to discriminate against Nchanga. The hon. Member will appreciate that there are so many constituencies and priority is given as and when it becomes necessary to do so.

Mr Speaker, in my ministry, there is no time to sit and begin to discriminate against any constituency. All we know is that Zambia must be developed in the same way. I think I must also state that Nchanga Constituency is not worse off. If you go around Zambia, you will find constituencies that are in a worse state than Nchanga. Therefore, please do not take it upon yourself to think that Nchanga is being discriminated against. In any case, the hon. Member just came to Parliament recently. I do not think there is anybody who told him he would be discriminated against.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, Lusaka is not Zambia and Zambia is not Lusaka. Why is it that there is so much concentration in terms of road rehabilitation in Lusaka than other constituencies like Kabushi?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, in our answer to this question, Lusaka did not even feature. However, I would like to assure the hon. Member that one of the roads leading to Kabushi which he talked about with me is not suffering because Lusaka is being developed. I also appreciate that Lusaka, being the capital city, is also the face of Zambia. Therefore, hon. Members spend a lot time driving in the roads of Lusaka. If we did not attend to some of the roads, the hon. Members would not spare us again. I would, therefore, like to assure him that time and funds permitting, we shall attend to this road.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MINDOLO ECUMENICAL FOUNDATION EMPLOYEES

67. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) how many employees were employed on fixed term contracts at the Mindolo Ecumenical Foundation in Kitwe from 2006 to 2008;

(b) of the employees at (a) above, how many had their contracts terminated prematurely;

(d) when the employees at the Mindolo Ecumenical Foundation last received salary increments; and

(e) what the total indebtedness of the Mindolo Ecumenical foundation to various creditors was as at 31st December, 2008

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the number of employees on fixed term contracts between 2006 and 2008 are broken down as follows:

Year Number of Employees

2006 47;

2007 51; and

2008 46.

Mr Speaker, a total of nineteen employees had their contracts terminated on voluntary resignation between 2006 and 2008. The following are the categories of workers affected:

(i) Three teachers;

(ii) Two secretaries;

(iii) Three library assistants;

(iv) Two chefs;

(v) Two accountants;

(vi) One lecturer;

(vii) One cleaner;

(viii) Two security guards;

(ix) One driver; and

(x) One registry clerk.

Mr Speaker, with regards the signing of a new collective agreement, management has written to all the unions that it will only be possible to negotiate for a new collective agreement after the financial position of the institution improves. Management has since asked the union to exercise patience until July, 2009.

The last salary increment was agreed in July, 2006. An increment of K110,000 across the board was awarded. However, this increment was only effected in January, 2007.

Mr Speaker, Mindolo Ecumenical Foundation has a total debt of K3,147,411,000 of which, K1,290,061,000 is for workers’ terminal benefits and K1,857,350,000 is for other creditors.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to the hon. Minister to inform this House when Mindolo Ecumenical Foundation management will clear K3.1 indebtedness owed to other institutions.

The Minister of labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, I hope that my hon. Brother will realise that it is not the responsibility of the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to supervise the payment of debts by Mindolo Ecumenical Foundation to creditors.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

STOLEN AND RECOVERED MOTOR VEHICLES AND BICYCLES IN CHILILABOMBWE

68. Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) whether there were adequate numbers of police officers in Chililabombwe District; and

(b) if not, when the ministry would employ the shortfall police officers for the district in order to enhance security in the border town.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that police officers in Chililabombwe District are not adequate. The strength of Chililabombwe Police Station and posts stands at eighty-six against the establishment of 126 leaving a shortfall of forty police officers.

Mr Speaker, the police service intends to recruit 1,500 police officers by April 2009. Upon completion of training, these will be deployed to police stations and posts countrywide. Therefore, Chililabombwe will also be considered.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, there is a shortfall of about forty-six officers. I know that you are going to recruit some more police officers in April. Looking at the time, April is still far. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures will be put in place, for the time being, because one of the farm blocks in Chililabombwe, Miyanda Farming Block, has been deserted. People have fled the area and children have abandoned school. What are you going to do to make sure that these people go back because they have fled the area because of insecurity?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, the long-term solution to this problem is recruitment. I have stated that we are embarking on vigorous recruitment of police officers beginning with 1,500 men and women this year at Lilayi, and they will be deployed nationwide.

Sir, in a situation where there is an urgent need of policemen to take care of law and order, and we do not have enough personnel, the only way to do it is employ reservists to fill the gap. I would, therefore, like the hon. Member to take a keen interest in this matter and discuss this with the Commanding Officer in the area so that he can raise reservists for the time being.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri: Since I want elected to this Parliament, I have been hearing about the recruitment of police officers which never happens.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mrs Phiri: I would like find out because for the past three years there has never been any recruitment unless they have been recruited in your dreams.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when exactly the recruitment of police officers is going to take place and what happens to the money which has been allocated in the past.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, we have always recruited policemen and women. In the period between 1997 and 2008, we recruited 11,000 police officers. In 1996, we had only 6,000 police officers. However, since then, we have recruited 11,000 police officers.

Interruptions

Dr Mwansa: Sir, the ultimate number of police officers needed to police the whole country is 27,000. Today, we are at 15,000. I am sure that in the next five to seven years, we will recruit the remaining 12,000 police officers who will be able to police the whole country, to the ratio of one policeman to 300 citizens. We are on course and very determined to bring the ratio down. Now, it is at one policeman to about 600 citizens.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the bottleneck in increasing police officers per capita is the capacity of training colleges for the police. We have heard that from 1997 to 2008, we have been recruiting 1,000 police officers, on average, per year. Has the Government got any intentions of increasing the training capacity of police officers instead of waiting for twelve years to recruit an additional 12,000 bearing in mind attrition and retirements during this period? We are talking of 16,000 police officers before we can catch up with the population ratio he mentioned, which is at one police officer to 300 people. Is the Government thinking about increasing the capacity of training police officers instead of taking away the police training academy in Chinsali?

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we have three training colleges. These are Lilayi Training College, Kamfinsa and Sondela where regular police, mobile and paramilitary units are trained respectively. However, if funds were available, it is our intention to increase on the capacity of the colleges to train more officers. This is something that is under consideration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the problem of understaffing of police officers in some districts like Chilubi is due to lack of accommodation. What plans does the hon. Minister have regarding lack of accommodation?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, in my earlier response, I should have indicated that in addition to the recruitment of police officers on yearly basis, we are also embarking on the purchasing and construction of housing units for them. This year, we believe that we can construct 500 houses and purchase 1,500 units. Therefore, the two exercises are going side by side, that is, recruitment, and construction and purchase of staff houses.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister stated that the capacity of training will be increased as funds are made available. What is more important, to build another police training college or provide K30 billion in this budget to do paved roads at the economic zone in Lusaka South?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I do not understand the meaning that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

DAMS IN THE COUNTRY

69. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) how many big dams for irrigation and generation of electricity were in the country;

(b) whether there were any plans to construct more dams for the purposes above; and

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, I will respond by defining what a big dam is. A big dam is 15 metres high (or above), and between 5 metres and 15 metres, but has a storage capacity of 3 million cubic metres of water (this is taken from the World Commission on Large Dams, 1928). According to existing records on water rights at the Water Board, there are twenty big dams for irrigation and generation of electricity in the country. These are located in the following districts:

Kapiri Mposhi 2
Mkushi 6
Mpongwe 1
Chongwe 1
Kalomo 1
Choma 2
Mazabuka 1
Kabwe 2
Itezhi Tezhi/Namwala 1
Kafue 1
Ndola 1
Luanshya 1

Sir, this august House may wish to know that there are also 2,000 small dams in the country used for domestic water supply, irrigation, livestock, watering and water conservation.

There are plans to construct dams for irrigation, electricity generation and other uses as outlined in the National Water Resources Master Plan. In this master plan, twenty-seven dam sites for irrigation and other purposes have been identified in the country. For example:

(i) projects are under implementation for the construction of power generation plants through public private partnerships (PPPs) in Mwinilunga at Zengamina, Itezhi Tezhi Power Generation Plant and Shiwang’andu Mini Hydro Power Plant;

(ii) other planned power schemes where feasibility studies have been done or being done include Kafue Gorge Lower, Kabompo, West Lunga, Chikanta Falls (Kabompo) and Batoka Gorge; and

(iii) Mwomboshi, Lunsemfwa and Kanakantapa dam feasibility studies are in progress to construct dams for irrigation water needs. A national dam for irrigation purposes project is under formulation and is targeted at the twenty-seven sites identified under the National Water Resources Master Plan.

Measures put in place to improve water and energy resources in the country include the following:

(i) The Government, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, has on-going programmes for dam construction and rehabilitation of public infrastructure for energy and water management and development as stipulated in the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) to improve availability of water and energy resources. As my ministry presents the 2009 Budget in this august House, in due course, these programmes will be highlighted;

(ii) public private partnerships are also being encouraged to implement irrigation and electricity generation projects;

(iii) awareness creation and educating the user communities to sustainably use these resources; and

(iv) water and energy conservation including proper environmental management.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, when will this Government construct huge dams that could be used for irrigation in areas where there are no rivers and lakes? These dams could be used for irrigation to produce winter maize. In countries like Zimbabwe, they have about 200 big dams. When will this Government construct big dams?

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, in my response I stated that we look at the availability of the resources to consider certain aspects in constructing dams. It is not a matter of just looking at a place and constructing a dam there. There are certain things that are supposed to be taken into consideration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to shed more light on the six dams mentioned as being in Mkushi. As far as I know, the dams which are there were done by individuals.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo) on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga)): Mr Speaker, in the reply, we have clearly stated that we have projects under implementation for the construction of power generation plants in Mwinilunga at Zengamina, Itezhi Tezhi Power Station, Shiwang’andu Hydro Power Plant, and we also have others that are being planned which are on the drawing board and these are Kafue Gorge, Kabompo West, Lunga Chikata and also Batoka.

Mr Speaker, in Mkushi area, there is Lunsemfwa Hydro Power Plant which is now supplying power to ZCCM.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, water resources are extremely crucial in Zambia, and the Zambezi River is one such very important water body. Could the hon. Minister indicate to this House when the Government intends to release the findings of the ZACI Plan III which has been studying the riparian states along the Zambezi River and when the Government is going to bring the accompanying legislation, the Water Resource Act, which will help manage these water resources?

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, there are moves to harness water resources in the Zambezi under a SADC programme. Now, there is an agreement which has yet to be signed by Zambia. Zambia has difficulties in signing this particular protocol because if you look at the Zambezi, three quarters of the waters are in Zambia. Mr Speaker, under this agreement, they want all the riparian states to have equal responsibility and we are saying, no, because three quarters of the water is in Zambia. Sir, although this is under the United Nations Development Programme, we are saying, until they attend to the issues that Zambia has raised, we will not ratify that protocol.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister how far they have gone with plans of starting to generate power from windmills as directed by the late President in his 2008 speech.

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, Zambia will not leave any stone unturned in the bid to create power and energy in the country and the windmill proposition is one area that the Government is considering and it requires a lot of money and we have people on the ground trying to establish the suitability and capacity to undertake that project.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, we support damming by the Government and, indeed, the private sector. In Chongwe, we have a number of dams that have been constructed on the rivers and those rivers are Chalimbana, Lwimba and so on and so forth. The problem which is there is that, once upon a time, we used to have crocodiles and fish which at the moment are not there. The question is, what is the Government doing to ensure that these private dams are opened up from time to time so that people downstream can have access to water? I am aware that there is a board, but it seems there are no checks. What is the Government doing to ensure that people continue to have water from the natural resources?

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, that is an important observation, and that is why, as a ministry, we do insist on an environmental impact assessment before we grant water rights. Now, if the hon. Member has information, we invite her to the ministry because a lot of complaints have been brought to our attention that farmers or villagers downstream are being deprived access to water and so I am inviting the hon. Member for Chongwe to come to our office so that this issue is taken to its logical conclusion.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for being thorough in his responses. Sir, what measures has the Government taken in respect to implementing the commitment to have a hydro power on the Kalungwishi River as was stated about two years ago?

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I want to inform the hon. Member for Chienge that the process has reached a very advanced stage. We are promoting this project on public private partnership and one of the companies involved is Olympic Milling of the Copperbelt, and they are working in collaboration with overseas partners in order to develop this project and, as a Government, we are giving them the maximum support they require.

I thank you, Sir.

TOURISTS VISITING DR DAVID LIVINGSTONE’S MEMORIAL SITE

70. Mr Chimbaka asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources how many tourists visited Dr David Livingstone’s Memorial Site at Chitambo, in Serenje, from 2001 to date.

The Deputy Minister for Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, the number of tourists who visited Dr David Livingstone Memorial Site at Chitambo in Serenje from 2001 to 2008 is as follow:

Year   Non-Zambian   Zambian Total
2001  167    50  217
2002  106   49  155
2003  18   112  130
2004  176   64  240
2005  293   38  331
2006  255   58  313
2007  252   358  610
2008  113   112  225

Total 1,380 841 2,221

Mr Speaker, the origin of these non-Zambians tourists is as follows:

Africa Europe North America Asia Unidentified Total
400 584 146 47 203 2,221

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, has there been an effort by the Ministry for Tourism, Environment and Natural Resource to try and trace Dr Livingstone’s offsprings with a view to inviting them to come and develop the area for the sake of development?

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, there are have been a number of initiatives. If you look at the figures for 2005 and 2007, there is an increase and this is largely because there was a celebration of about 150 years of David Livingstone sighting of the Victoria Falls. In addition to this, late last year, there was a group that came from Hollywood looking for locations for a movie about Dr Livingstone and his impact on Africa.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, looking at the data that has just been given, it is evident that Zambians do not tour their country. What could be the reason? Is it too expensive or are you trying to do something that will help the Zambians visit these sites?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, it is true that Zambians do not tour their own country. I would like to start with this House, by urging the hon. Members of Parliament to tour the sites that Zambia has to offer. However, in addition, tourism has been seen as a preserve of the elite and for us to develop the sector, there is need to work very hard on encouraging domestic tourism. Therefore, I would like to urge the hon. Members here to take this challenge and become tourists in their own country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in preserving these national monuments, I would like to ask the hon. Minister about that tree on the Ndola/Kitwe Highway, which was a slave tree. It collapsed and it was supposed to be fixed, but I think it was just thrown away. What are you doing about that national monument, the slave tree?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: The House is not interested in any more answers regarding this question. We move on to the next question. Hon. Member for Chilubi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

EXAMINATION CENTRE NUMBERS

71. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education why the following upper basic schools were not provided with examination centre numbers in 2008:

(i) Kawena;
(ii) Kabesha; and
(iii) Mayuka.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, there is no school called Kawena. However, there is a school called Chinungwe in Kawena Village which is a registered examination centre and the centre number is 1394. It was approved as an examination centre on 10th September, 2008.

Mr Speaker, Kabesha Basic School is a registered examinations centre for internal and external candidates. The centre number for internal candidates is 1212. The centre number for external candidates is 1232.

Mr Speaker, Mayuka Basic School is an approved examination centre. It was approved in 2008 and the school presented candidates, who sat for the 2008 Grade 9 examination at the school and the centre number is 1379.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, as a matter of urgency, is the hon. Minister considering coming up with guidelines regarding the conduct of examinations in Zambia?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that, indeed, we have guidelines which are very comprehensive, and look at different aspects of managing our examination system and I will place the document on guidelines for the administration management of examinations in Zambia on the Table, for the attention of the hon. Members.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa laid the paper on the Table.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, are there any plans for the ministry to give examination centre status to community schools? It is three to four years now, and some community school pupils, when writing Grade 7 examinations, have to go to Government schools.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, as indicated, approval for writing the examinations is dependent upon fulfilling the guidelines or requirements. If the school does fulfill the guidelines, then it is considered as an examination centre. That is normally considered.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I seek your indulgence in the context of a correct account of the historical text books that the ministry uses in schools, particularly with respect to David Livingstone.

Is there an opportunity for the Government to establish a research grant between the Ministries of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and Education to ensure that we do not look at David Livingstone from the white man’s perspective and have our own correct account of what happened when he travelled here in Zambia?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, clearly that question does not touch on examination guidelines.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: However, if you may allow me, we can engage in some kind of discussion on the merits and demerits of Afrocentric and Eurocentric views in reconstructing our history. The Government, working through the Ministry of Education, takes particular interest in reconstructing our history through an Afrocentric perspective, instead of exclusive dependency on Eurocentricism. That is why we encourage the study of African history in our universities, high schools and colleges. Clearly, that is a subject of extreme importance as we reconstruct Africa’s development.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

72. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much money was owed by the Government and parastatal companies to the Zambia State Insurance Corporation Limited (ZSIC) as of 31st December, 2008;

(b) for how long the debts at (a) above had been outstanding;

(d) what measures had been taken to recover the debts at (a) above.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that as at 31st December, 2008, the Government and parastatal companies were owing ZISC K20,661,000,000 and K91,168,000,000 respectively, giving a combined total of K111,929,000,000.

Mr Speaker, as regards part (b) of the question, the debts have been outstanding from 2006, in individual, life and general insurance whilst pension deficits have been outstanding from 2005. Further, pension contributions have been accumulating since 1997 and this is with regard to parastatal companies and not the Government.

In response to part (c), I wish to inform the House that like any other institution owed a huge debt, ZISC operations have been adversely affected. For instance, there has been delay in claim settlements, difficulties in meeting obligations as they fall due and loss of investment returns due to the fact that these tied funds with debtors are not invested to earn a good return to enhance performance. These are some of the effects that have impacted on the operations of ZISC negatively.

Mr Speaker, as regards the last part of the question, by mutual agreement, the Government conducts periodic audits to verify the debts owed to ZISC and pays the verified debt thereafter. The last verified debt was K13,064,911,238 and was paid on 10th July, 2008. It is the intention of the Government to liquidate the entire outstanding debt once the verification exercise is complete. On the other hand, ZISC makes constant follow-ups on the payment of outstanding debts with various ministries and parastatals.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that K111,929,000,000 is owed to ZISC. Therefore, would the hon. Minister inform this House if this company has been making profit for the last two years, from 2006 to 2007.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the company made profit in some years. A profit of about K20,000,000,000 was made in 2007 but not in 2008, when a loss was recorded.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili and Mr Lubinda stood up.

Mr Speaker: Next question.

Mr Kambwili and Mr Lubinda continued standing.

Mr D. Mwila: They want to ask follow-up questions.

Mr Speaker: Who is following up?

Mr D. Mwila: The hon. Members standing.

Mr Speaker: Order! Let me guide the House. The only hon. Member of Parliament who is entitled and must be granted a follow-up question is the hon. Member of Parliament who has asked the main question here. The rest of you just join in and have no right to claim follow-up questions.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It is in accordance with the Chair’s discretion that you are allowed to join in. Otherwise, stay away.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Roan can ask his follow-up question.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to join in. I would like to find out if there is a budget provision towards the liquidation of this debt in this year’s Budget.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that we are still verifying the outstanding debts from what was paid last year, there is no provision in the 2009 Budget for further payments.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, this issue of the Government owing parastatals or other Government institutions is becoming a big problem in the country and is creating difficulties for most public institutions. What is the Government doing to ensure that, for example, bills for water, electricity, Zamtel and, indeed, even insurance are paid so that we do not collapse our own companies?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as far as water and electricity are concerned, the bills are paid centrally by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Generally, we encourage ministries not to incur arrears or make commitments beyond their budgets. Therefore, I would like to urge service providers to only provide services when they have assurance of payment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, in view of the huge debt that the Government owes ZISC, which is affecting the operations of the company, would the hon. Minister like to take up a deliberate policy to encourage Government ministries and parastatals to continue buying premiums with ZISC as a way of protecting that institution that runs the risk of collapse because of the huge debt that the Government owes it, and not private insurance companies?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we will take note of his suggestion.

I thank you, Sir.

STOLEN AND RECOVERED MOTOR VEHICLES AND BICYCLES IN CHILILABOMBWE

73. Mrs Banda asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many motor vehicles and bicycles were stolen from Zambians in Chililabombwe District by nationals of a foreign country from 2006 to 2008;

(b) out of the stolen items at (a) above, how many were recovered as of 31st December, 2008; and

(c) what measures had been taken to protect the people of Chililabombwe from armed robbers allegedly from a foreign country.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that two motor vehicles and two bicycles were stolen in Chililabombwe in 2006 while four motor vehicles and seven bicycles were stolen in 2007. These bicycles and motor vehicles were stolen by foreigners who were conniving with local criminals.

From the items stolen in 2006, nothing was recovered while from the items stolen in 2007 only two vehicles were recovered. Sir, patrols and check points have been intensified and members of the community have been sensitised on the need to report to police suspicious activities in their area. The reserve wing has been revamped to augment manpower and logistics.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I know of one person whose vehicle was stolen and was found in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but it has not yet been brought back to Zambia. May I find out from the hon. Minister how long it takes for a vehicle to be brought to the Zambian authorities once it is recovered in a neighbouring country?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, we invite the hon. Member to provide us with those details so that a follow-up action can be taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we all know that the flying squad under the Zambia Police Service is a no-nonsense and a hardworking wing. Is the Government not considering training more of such officers and deploying them in areas such as Chililabombwe?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the training will continue, but may I inform the House that cross border thefts between us and neighbouring countries have really gone down because of the co-operation between the police forces from our neighbouring countries. The other contributing factor is the dialogue that we have entered into with various countries through the Joint Permanent Commissions on Defence and Security.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

MOTION

BUDGET 2009

(Debate resumed)

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, when the House adjourned yesterday, I had just mentioned that the people of Luapula Province, for a long time now, have seen little development taking place in the province except for the bridge which the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, imposed on the Government to have implemented.

Mr Speaker, I emphasise the word ‘impose’ because I am alive to the fact that in 2002, I led a delegation of chiefs from Luapula Province and had an audience with the President, then, to try and lobby him to consider the creation of a bridge across the Luapula River. If the hon. Minister of Health, Mr Kapembwa Simbao, were here, he would agree with me because he was present when this was being discussed and agreed upon.

Mr Speaker, the people of Luapula, and myself, are aware of the fact that there were also other persons and officers within the Government who disagreed, hence my usage of the term ‘imposed’ by the late President, Dr Mwanawasa. Without that, all we have is Tuta Road which is now gullied. It is very difficult for any person to drive on that road at night from Tuta to Kashikishi. I hope the Government is going to take this seriously.

Mr Speaker, sometimes, I feel very sad in the manner the House progresses. When a Members of Parliament, on your left, stands up to ask questions, they expect the Government to give appropriate and satisfactory answers.

Mr Speaker, what some members of the Executive cannot see while standing on the Floor of this House, we, and I, am able to see while sitting. I emphasise that.

Ms Lundwe: Can you translate that?

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, the National Budget has a language that can be translated into either positive or negative. The language of the budget and Dr Musokotwane, through the Chair, can be negative when there is Government inaction on an activity on ground. Therefore, people receive and see no action. When that happens, the result of such a party will be doomed as it will increase poverty for the people of Zambia. When a budget language is completely understood and the word is spread, it spells prosperity, success and poverty alleviation for the nationals.

Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of the message from the people of Bahati Constituency, Mansa, Luapula Province, that they are alive to the fact that the Ministry of Education has done very well and there is no question about that …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: … because the programme is there for everyone to see and the actualisation programme is also there for everyone to see. This is nothing, but the truth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: In one of the remotest areas of Bahati, five schools have been electrified and teachers are happy to go to there. I say hats off to Professor Lungwangwa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker as a union, we negotiated for the teachers’ welfare up to 2004. I was a leader of the delegation of the Zambia National Union of Teachers. I was the Secretary for Business and Financial Management and 75,000 teachers in Zambia belonged to the union then. When we negotiated, one of the issues that came up on the board was the issue of trying to make teachers professionals like either the Legal Council of Zambia or the Nursing Council of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, teachers have long waited for the inauguration of the Teaching Council of Zambia so that teaching can be a profession. Now, teaching is a service, hence the inefficiencies in the ministry.

I am not saying that teachers are inefficient, but that they want to be motivated. We need to encourage as many of them as possible to go to university to upgrade their education qualifications with a view to becoming effective teachers who can produce the next Obamas of this world.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Bo Akakandelwa ndate, amu utwe.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Bo Akakandelwa ndate, I am now talking about the Ministry of Health.

Mr Speaker: Order! Could you interpret that?

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: I believe the Chair understands the language I have used.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Interpret what you have just said.

Mr Chimbaka: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am giving respect to bo …

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: … sorry, the hon. Deputy Minister of Health, bo mutompe Akakandelwa.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: I urge the hon. Deputy Minister of Health to emulate the example of his brother in the Ministry of Education.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: The Ministry of Health has, for a long time, lacked a visionary programme to actualise the expectations of the people.

Mr Speaker, in Luapula Province, in particular, all district health management boards tailored beautiful programmes. These programmes where subscribed to the Ministry of Health for funding and implementation.

I was not happy that even by yesterday, when I called Mansa, not much was being done. The money was appropriated and given, but there was nobody with a plan to direct the implementation of the projects despite the fact they were allocated funding by this House. That is procrastination. Hon. Situmbeko will need to shake those people around.

Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about tourism. It is unfortunate that, sometimes, we want to joke on the Floor of this House. Let me talk about the issue I raised earlier in my Question to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply about the crossing point on the Luapula River. That site has historic significance.

Mr Speaker, in the 18th Century, Dr De Lacerda crossed at that point to see Mwata Kazembe. In the 17th Century, again, the Luba people under Chiti Muluba; the Ushi of Myelemyele; the Bisa of Kankomba we Lala; the Lunda of Mwata Kazembe, and all the Chishinga people of the Northern Circuit crossed over into Zambia using that point.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, to date, nobody has realised there is such a huge monument which, if well addressed and capitalised on, would earn the country foreign exchange. My passionate appeal is that the new hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources understands these facts.

Mr Speaker, many people believe that the people of Luapula Province are not difficult. However, let me hasten to say that the day is coming when these people shall want the king to dress in a magical suit.

Mr Speaker, I want to tell the story about the king dressed in a magical suit. There was once a king, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: No story telling is allowed in the House.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Move on to the next point.

Mr Chimbaka: Thank you Mr Speaker. I wanted to narrate a story, but I get your guidance. It is very easy to tell President Rupiah Banda, today, that all is well. However, there will come a time when the people shall remember.

Mr Speaker, let me say, on behalf of the people of Luapula Province, that the campaign promises of President Rupiah Bwezani Banda still echo in their ears, when he spoke to them at the airport, at the inauguration of the Mwanawasa Bridge and at a campaign rally where he promised that he would consider inaugurating serious mining in Luapula Province, as that was what he discussed with the late Dr Mwanawasa. The people are waiting.

Mr Speaker, Luapula Province has the most beautiful sand beaches around Lakes Mweru and Bangweulu. We appreciate that our colleagues in Northern Province have got the Northern Circuit Initiative. However, I wish the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources could also prioritise such an initiative for Luapula Province.

Mr Speaker, the province has incomparable potential for tourism in Central Africa. All the way from Kanyembo to Chipungu, on the border with Congo, are white sand beaches. Places like Bahati, Chifunabuli and Chilubi Island have white sand beaches.

Sir, we are appealing to this listening Government to take seriously the plea of the people of Luapula Province. The people shall not continue to just sit and listen that billions of kwacha are being allocated to other areas while they get the least.

We respect the Government and want to work well with it. However, we shall not stand here to insult because that is not the language in Luapula Province.

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Our language is to persuade, plead and appeal, after which we take action. I want to inform the Government that beginning next week, we have resolved and want to encourage our new permanent secretary to come with …

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his response to queries on the Zambia State Insurance Corporation. I urge him to keep it up.

Sir, I also noticed and liked that there was no interference in the way he answered the questions as he has not yet been contaminated with bad answers.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The word ‘contaminated’ used in …

Mrs Phiri: Thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Speaker: Order!

… that context is unparliamentary. You will withdraw it.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the offensive word and replace it with …

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: I thank you Mr Speaker. As I start to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House, …

Hon. Phiri paused.

Hon. Members: Go ahead!

Mrs Phiri: I would like to start with something the Government considers to be very dear. Members of the Government always talk about the loyalty of the police and the defence forces. However, a look at this year’s Budget shows a reduction in finances to the ministries responsible for these officers.

Mr Speaker, I wish to talk about the police, in particular, because I have one of the biggest police camps in my constituency, which is Chelstone, and I see how these people live. I also see where they take their children.

Mr Speaker, I have seen wrangles amongst police officers which emanate from the lack of adequate accommodation. There was a particular wrangle which I witnessed between police officers who were sharing a house in the Bennie Mwiinga Presidential Housing Initiative (PHI) residential area.

Mr Speaker, I wept at what I found. There is no way you can let the people who protect you, while you sleep in your homes, live in such conditions. I ask this question because I cannot see the presence of police officers to the ordinary people. The people in the Government are able to see the police officers because they parade for them and guard them as they travel.

I do not see police officers in residential areas where ordinary people live. However, they are ever present on the streets when Government leaders are leaving or arriving in the country. They are made to guard and parade for these leaders. Yet, it is sad to see the conditions under which our police officers live.

Mr Speaker, I would like the to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to consider increasing the salaries of these very important people in this year’s budget so that they can afford decent accommodation while the Government is still building them houses. When they take their children to schools and hospitals, they will not pay ‘royalty’ that the Government is talking about because they need money.

Hon. Government Members: It is ‘loyalty’!

Mrs Phiri: You have understood, but you are pretending.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: If you echo what I am saying, I will mention your name and your constituency will hear you. It seems the police officers in your constituencies are living well, especially in Katuba Constituency.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, every year, we hear, in this House, that bullet proof jackets are going to be procured for police officers.

Mr V. Mwale: Yali pa border!

Mrs Phiri: To date, our officers are dying from criminals and they are not even entitled to any meaningful risk allowance. That is the reason we say that this is a mortuary type of Government. The Government is letting our officers be killed in cold blood without doing anything about it, and still dispute that this is happening. What do the hon. Members on your right expect us to call them when the New Deal Government is gone? They should tell me what they are now called.

Mr Speaker, how are police officers expected to be motivated in their duties when they know that they will have to wait for five years to get their pension after retirement? On the other hand, hon. Government Members are even talking about shortage of accommodation for officers in active duty when there are a lot of retired officers still living in Zambia Police houses because they are still waiting for their pensions. I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to consider increasing the budget allocation to Zambia Police next year. This year, he can be excused because he has just come and I do not know what he found.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, coming to education, some of us have even been called, on the Floor of this House, as political fortune seekers by fellow hon. Members. It does not matter whatever name I am called as long as I know that I am doing the right thing. In the education sector, some constituencies have been allocated nine schools. As Munali Constituency, we would also like to benefit as we have not even been built any school apart from the Centre of Excellence. I would want one school to be located in Munali, just like what has happened in Nalikwanda Constituency. It can even be named after the mother of one of the hon. Ministers.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Taba votele bwino!

Mrs Phiri: They voted very well and that is why, as the area hon. Member of Parliament, I do not encourage people to eat roots as if I am taking them back to the Stone Age era …

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: …by claiming that we were eating these things before. Come 2011, people do not want to be taken back to the Stone Age era where they are encouraged to eat roots.

Mr Lubinda: Bwekeshapo!

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to report, on the Floor of this House, that the people of Munali Constituency have already found a place where a school can be built and, therefore, the constituency should be considered for the construction of a new school. This Government has been telling us to look for land if we want a new school and, hence, we have found somebody who is selling land. Even those that call me a political fortune seeker can consult me and I will show them where this land is.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: I do not take it to heart because I know that I am working for the people of Munali and I am representing them very well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: When it comes to the allocations of funds in the education sector, many people wonder why I always talk about the University of Zambia in particular. There are two other colleges in my constituency and when something good is being done, there is no need for me to criticise. For instance, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives under which the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) falls has been giving us funding. Last year, the ministry gave K100 million to the students at NRDC for rehabilitation of hostels. There were proper guidelines on the utilisation of these funds. They know that as they go …

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member will do well to ignore the heckler. Address the Chair.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I just want to remind the hon. Member for Katuba Constituency that he does not understand what I am talking about because he has no college or trades school in his constituency.

Mr Speaker, NRDC was given K100 million to rehabilitate ...

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member, who cannot pronounce English words properly, in order to insinuate that I do not understand what she is talking about when she is comparing renovations worth K100 million at NRDC to hostels worth over K5 billion at the University of Zambia?

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Is she in order to …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1613 hour until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam Deputy Speaker: When business was suspended, the hon. Member for Munali was on the Floor and the Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training had just raised a point of order. The ruling is that the hon. Member on the Floor should take that information into consideration as she continues her debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to continue my debate. My curriculum vitae is known in my constituency. When I was campaigning, everybody knew that I have been a housewife for sixteen years.

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: Oh, yes! I have been married for nineteen years. When hon. Members look at me, they should know that people in my constituency know the level of my education. Even if some hon. Members say that I am not a fluent speaker of English, people in my constituency are aware of that. The hon. Member who raised the point of order has a degree, but he must know that God blesses us differently. He must remember that he is not a professor or doctor like others. Therefore, we should accept what we have and others will accept us with pleasure.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Madam Speaker, when I was debating, I made reference to Chainama College of Health Sciences, but I want to comment on the University of Zambia because people wonder why I am always at the university when students are throwing stones. For example, in last year’s budget, students were allocated K78 billion. To date, K17 billion has not been released. Unless it was released yesterday, I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. That money was supposed to be used at this institution to improve the welfare of the students.

Madam Speaker, if you look at this year’s budget allocation and subtract the K35 billion which will go towards finishing the construction of the hostels which were meant for the All Africa Games, the remaining amounts are supposed to be shared amongst the three universities. The biggest university, in this country, is found in my constituency. If, for argument’s sake, it gets K80 million, does the Government expect this institution to run well? I doubt it because the rate of a dollar today is about K5,100. This means the kwacha has depreciated.

Madam Speaker, through you, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to allocate more resources to the University of Zambia as our late President promised before he died. He gave an extra K40 billion to this university. I thank him for that and May His Soul Rest in Peace.

Madam Speaker, I do not talk much about colleges like the Chainama College of Health Sciences because when their money is allocated, there is no problem. I go to that college and talk to students. I hope the new hon. Minister of Health will continue with this spirit. When students go to college, they know how much meal allowance they will get and the duration they will get it. This is different from the University of Zambia. The University of Zambia opened and nothing was given to the students until they started throwing stones last week. This was five weeks after they had opened. How do you expect me to be sleeping in my bed? When I go there to see what is happening, people start saying that I even go and check on the bulbs. Of course, I do that and that is why the people of Munali voted for me.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: I will check even on the bulb which is in the toilet to make sure that it is working. We should prevent our students from contracting HIV/AIDS and other diseases because the other way of transmitting these diseases is through fluids. I spoke about this last time. Why should we allow our children to be using toilets where there are no lights? I will do that work to save the lives of my students.

Madam Speaker, we had a situation where five boreholes were sunk at the University of Zambia. Women, like me, go with children to visit at the university. Now, if these children fall in those boreholes, who are you going to blame? Those boreholes are not properly secured and I will not sit idly by and watch such things happen. When I go to see such things, people say that I go to fuel demonstrations at the university. Oh no, I am representing the women of this country. I am a wife and I know the importance of the safety of every child. I know the people I am representing in my constituency very well. Those people will start doubting some of these professionals, like Members of Parliament, because they are not being well represented.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the All Africa Games. I know how much has was allocated to the event. In my constituency, I make sure I monitor these funds. Already, two weeks ago, we started losing lives because of bad structures. Foundations were laid and I will sit down and watch people die. I will follow up and see where the problem is.

Madam, I would like to talk about the Department of Civil Aviation which is under the Ministry of Communications and Transport. I went through the Yellow Book and I am glad to see some funds that have been allocated to the rehabilitation of the radar I have been talking about in this House. Therefore, I would like to congratulate our able hon. Minister for that. I am sure she is not influenced by anybody even when she gives her well-researched answers.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mrs Phiri: Oh yes, you can question.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member, speak through the Chair and do not respond to hecklers.

Mrs Phiri: Madam Speaker, I talk about the things that I see. The hon. Minister of Communications and Transport is not yet polluted.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! There are no pollutants in this House.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: You must speak parliamentary language. You may continue.

Mrs Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam, this radar is very important to this country. The hon. Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport is here and he can bear me witness with what I am saying. There are reports that this department indicated that we could have had a plane crash in this country. What has disappointed me is that in this year’s Budget, no funds have been allocated to this department.

Madam Speaker, two years ago, we experienced a plane crash and we lost very experienced people. One of them was a former ZAF Officer who was in the private sector, and it took five days to locate where that plane had crashed. Farmers from Mazabuka had to use their small planes to try and locate the site of the crash. Therefore, I expected this Government to look into this issue seriously. Maybe, they think we will be using the Presidential aircraft to do such things. Crashes are called accidents because they are not anticipated. I expected an allocation towards this as well.

Madam Speaker, I am a councillor in Lusaka and the former hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing mentioned that we needed about K1 billion to buy one fire tender. She went further to say that they would have bought the fire tenders if funds were available. The tenders we have were bought in the 1989 and 1990. What if we have an accident today? What is going to happen? I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister to look at this issue very seriously because those fire tenders do not only help at the airport but even in the compounds. Two to three days ago, we lost a couple that was burnt to death. We should not run a country like this.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I want to mention that I will continue praying for this Government to continue with their campaign promises - when they were promising in the last Presidential Elections. They based their campaign on continuity but they are diverting from what they promised the people of Zambia. President Mwanawasa left a legacy of the anti-corruption crusade and other things which the Government is ignoring. They are now breaking the law which says that man stood for the rule of law, and not of man, but these things are coming back. The President’s spirit cannot sleep well. That is why the Government members are looking like that.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: We will continue praying for you so that you settle down.

With these few words, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to contribute to the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on the 2009 Budget. I know the hon. Minister is a friend of mine and I have known him for a long time. He will be able to achieve some of the things…

Interruptions

Mr Chota: Let lumpens be lumpens.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You may not use such words. The purpose of you speaking through the Chair is to be focused and not to listen to all the other utterances in the House. You may withdraw the word, ‘lumpens’.

Mr Chota: Madam Speaker, I withdraw that word.

Interruptions

Mr Chota: Madam Speaker, I would like to repeat what the hon. Minister said on mining and I quote:

“The Government considers mining companies as important partners in the process of national development. In this regard, I have proposed a number of fiscal measures in order to support this vital industry and enhance its competitiveness in the world market. I will elaborate on these measures later”.

Madam Speaker, on page 22, he says, and I quote:

“I propose the following refinements:

(a) remove the windfall tax and retain the variable profit tax, which will still capture any windfall gains that may arise in the sector;

(b) allow hedging income to be part of the mining income for tax purposes; and

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how they are going to do this. Firstly, do we have the mechanisms in place to capture metal production figures in Zambia?

Secondly, do we know the tonnage produced by the mines for minerals like copper, cobalt and gold selenium?

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell this House where the Ndola Precious Metals Plant is? That plant, which used to extract precious metals from concentrates, was built at a very high cost. We should have means of maximising our taxation systems.

Madam Speaker, since the MMD Government came into power, there has never been any mechanism in place to capture figures of metal production. What used to happen in the past was that the figures of metal production, from traming, to the concentrator, smelter and, finally, the refinery, were known by the hon. Ministers of Mines and Minerals Development and Finance and National Planning, the Bank of Zambia (BOZ) and the Metal Marketing Corporation of Zambia (MEMACO), each morning. There was transparency because people knew what was going on.

Madam Speaker, at the moment, copper is being sold before it even leaves the plant. There are trucks waiting outside the gates to carry the copper. The hon. Minister admitted that one company in Luanshya was selling copper on the spot. In the past, we knew the destination of the copper - whether overseas or within the region. This way, we knew the figures and it was easier to implement the tax system. At the moment, this is not the case.

Madam Speaker, at the moment we have traders running the mines and not miners. These are people that are mining and selling copper on the spot. Currently, we are even allowing concentrates to be exported from Zambia. What will happen, in the next few years, hon. Minister, is that China will be selling more copper than Zambia. They are extracting our copper and taking it to China and we are not inspecting anything. We are giving them leeway.

The hon. Minister said he would effect variable profit taxes and hedging income to be part of the tax. I would like to know how he will do so. How are you going to tell those people to sell the copper after they have signed the contracts? How are you going to extract tax if you do not know the production figures?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota: It will be impossible.

I remember, sometime back, when we paid a courtesy call on a very important man. He asked me why Kabundi Cathode was found in Hong Kong. We discovered that Kabundi Cathode is a special copper ore only mined in Chingola. We are not adding value to our copper if Kabundi Cathode can be found anywhere. You can, therefore, imagine, hon. Minister, that you have joined people who do not know what is going on. Kabundi Cathode is mined and sold and nobody knows anything. Like Hon. Milupi said, unless we add value to our copper, we will even think that people are stealing when they are not.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister should put a stop to the export of concentrates.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Chota: I do not know if anyone has asked this question before but I would like to ask it and you may answer, later on. How much gold did we mine in Zambia in the past three years?

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Chota: When I was with MEMACO, we knew the amount of gold mined and we handed the figures over to the BOZ.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Member may address the Chair.

Mr Chota: Madam Speaker, we gave the figures to the BOZ. We even knew how much selenium, which is a very expensive metal, was mined. At the moment, I do not think we have the people or the capacity to capture these figures.

Madam Speaker, I would like to briefly talk about agriculture. On page 10 of the Budget Speech, it says there were weaknesses in the way the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) was executed.

Madam Speaker, in my constituency, it was a disaster. As I am talking to you now, the people do not even have top dressing fertiliser. It has not yet been delivered. The whole programme has just been disastrous. I, therefore, would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to do something about it.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I beg to move.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many that have spoken before me in supporting this year’s Budget Speech.

First and foremost, I would like to wish you, Madam Speaker, and the members of staff, a very happy new year in this global financial crisis.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I want to state, from the beginning, that I am supporting the Budget Speech, which is well meaning, and coming from a knowledgeable hon. Minister who means well to this Parliament …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: …to which he has indicated his vision. I would like to add my voice and say that this Budget is in line with the Presidential Speech.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Hon. Minister this has to be followed by providing leadership in all the ministries responsible for implementing this Government vision. It is not about character assassination or making a good name, but encouraging the people on the ground and implementing Government programmes in order to perform to the expectation of the Government and His Excellency, the President.

Madam Speaker, I was impressed to hear the hon. Minister and His Excellency, the President, talk about time management in all ministries whose work culture has become really bad.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, is this man who is debating in order to be reading and not debating from his head.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Which man?

Mr L. J. Mulenga: The hon. Member of Parliament for Isoka West.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The concern of the hon. Member for Kwacha is that the hon. Member on the Floor is reading. From this point, I see him referring to what maybe termed as copious notes.

May the hon. Member for Isoka West, please, continue?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for that ruling.

Madam Speaker, I would like to say that His Excellency, the President has a vision for this country in having talked about time management in the Civil Service. If you really want to know what transpired…

Laughter

Mr Sichamba: … Madam Speaker, the work culture in the Civil Service has been very bad. Why do I say so? I say so because civil servants go late for work and knock off before time. This does not require the President to tell the Executive what they are supposed to do.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, we, as back benchers in the ruling party, must give checks and balances to the Executive to ensure that all civil servants who work for eight hours are executing the duties which are expected of them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: For example, the purpose of running a business is to achieve results. Therefore, we, in Government, must do the same, together with our hon. Ministers, by getting down to the people and making sure that we implement these programmes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Others may think that whatever advice we get from the Opposition is just mere talk. I want to appreciate and acknowledge that the Opposition are just reminding us to pull up our socks.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, we may be defensive in our own way, but there is need for us to provide good service to the people of Zambia.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, having said that, I would like to commend the Government for the 37 per cent allocation to the agricultural sector. This is very commendable. In fact, this simply shows that this Government has a heart for our people in the rural areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I want to state that I will be useless and it will be meaningless if I do not talk about the allocation which was given to Isoka District. Isoka District has a population of 150,000 potential and viable farmers, but only 30,000 bags of fertiliser were given to this district. Even if you were a genius, you would fail to distribute this fertiliser because the number of farmers in the area is too big. Therefore, my appeal to the Government is that whilst you have increased the allocation in the agricultural sector, the fertiliser should be given to productive areas like Isoka. It is not every area that requires fertiliser. There are some areas which do not even need fertiliser.

Suffice to say that where I come from, we are not lazy, but, instead, we are hard workers. Therefore, when we ask for fertiliser, we really mean it that we need the commodity. If anything, we should know that by increasing the allocation in the agricultural sector, it is a good for all of us, and it also an encouragement to me as the area Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I want to remind the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that Isoka District contributed to the mealie-meal price reduction.

Hon. Opposition Member: And it means more votes!

Mr Sichamba: If you say votes, then, thank you very much, because we always vote wisely and we are not swayed by the wind. In other words, we are not tribalists. We just mean well when it comes to voting.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: When we ask for fertiliser, we just mean that. I also wish to commend the Government for having come to the aid of Mbesuma State Ranch which had not been renovated for so many years. This time around, houses have been renovated at Mbesuma.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, the renovated houses at Mbesuma will not be of any use if we fail to have cattle restocking in that area. We need to do cattle restocking in that area because of the Chambeshi Plains. This can generate income which, in turn, can also help the people of Isoka, Chinsali and both the Northern and Luapula provinces, because of the animals.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Naukula mwaiche! Bebe!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, let me say something on health. I wish to commend the Government for allocating some money, in this year’s Budget, to fourteen district hospitals, Isoka inclusive.

Madam Speaker, I have been talking about Isoka District Hospital on the Floor of this House, and other previous hon. Members also did the same. I am happy that Isoka District Hospital has been mentioned in this year’s Budget. We should, therefore, ensure that immediately the funds are made available, Isoka District Hospital is worked upon and expanded.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, we were given the operational guidelines last year and Chief Kafwimbi’s Palace was offered a rural health centre. Surprisingly, no money has been released to this rural health centre, from a total K400 million allocated to the project. This has been caused by the bureaucracy in the tender procedures. There are some people who are trying to frustrate the Government’s programmes.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about education. This sector has done very well.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: From the onset, I wish to say that many schools have been renovated in my constituency as well as other surrounding constituencies. This is the reason everyone is praising the hon. Minister of Education, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa. People have the same spirit as far as education is concerned.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Having said that, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education to take this as a challenge. His Excellency, the President, said something about Mulakupikwa College in Chinsali. You should, therefore, ensure that immediately the budget is approved, funds should be released so that we can have this college rehabilitated because it has been lying idle for too long.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Through you, hon. Minister …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Through the Chair, and not the hon. Minister.

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, through you, I want to remind the hon. Minister of Education that Isoka High School and Muchinga High School have not been renovated for a long time. Madam Speaker, these schools have produced graduates in this country, but they have been neglected. In fact, we just want the hon. Minister to come and see the state in which these schools are. They are in a pathetic condition.

Madam Speaker, through you, I wish to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education to ensure that funds are released for the rehabilitation of these schools.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam, I wish to state, here, that Isoka District also needs a girls’ school to be constructed. It is the only district which has no girls’ school. There are girls’ schools in Nakonde and Chinsali districts. Since this Government is trying to promote girl child education, I become very sad when I see that my district has no girls’ school.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about energy. I want to commend the Government …

Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: … and the reason I want to commend the Government is that the price of fuel has been reduced. The pump price has been reduced. However, my appeal is that we need to go a step further and make the fuel prices uniform in all parts of the country. If we have a uniform price of fuel, automatically, even the most vulnerable farmer, who is the poor of the poorest, will benefit from the reduction of fuel prices.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, fuel passes through Nakonde as a finished product, but I wonder why it comes to Lusaka and is then rerouted to Isoka.

Hon. PF Member: Poor planning!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I wish to appeal to you that the fuel coming from the borders must be left at the filling stations in those areas, so that the prices can be cheaper.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I will be failing in my duty if I do not talk about Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company. This company leaves much to be desired because of its poor performance in Northern Province. It is not there. We have a utility company that is not serving the needs of the people in Northern Province. The taps have no running water. Why maintain a utility company that you cannot recapitalise? It is better to have it closed down because it does not provide services to the local people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about tourism. As I talk about tourism, I want to commend the Government for recognising the Northern Circuit.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: This is a brilliant idea, and I would like to appeal to the Minister of Finance and National Planning to consider it as a very important programme.

Yesterday, I was disappointed to hear one of the hon. Members, on the Floor, mention that in Northern Province, we only have Lake Tanganyika with a lot of kapenta there. Yet, we have many tourist sites there. We have the Chishimba, Kabwelume falls, Nsumbu National Park and the Samfya beaches. How can one say that we only have kapenta? It is an insult to the people of Northern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Let us face facts.

Hon. Member: Mwebe!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I now wish to talk about the Ministry of Works and Supply. We have been talking about Mbesuma Bridge for a long time now. K4.7 billion was spent, but we are still talking about the Mbesuma Bridge.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: I am appealing to hon. Minister that Mbesuma Bridge must be worked on. It must be worked on this year because it will reduce travelling costs for district officers that have travel to Kasama. It will also help the Mwanawasa Bridge serve its purpose if the Mbesuma Bridge is completed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: This is because the Mbesuma Bridge will help people travel up to Nakonde, and this will serve the purpose of the Mwanawasa Bridge.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene (Itezhi Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the 2009 Budget.

Madam, this is my third time to contribute to the Budget Speech ever since I came to this House from Itezhi Tezhi Constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Every year, speeches have come and gone. However, in my view, this budget is traumatising …

Laughter

Mr Beene: … with serious hiccups …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … to the Zambian people because it has no sense of economic value to the people on the ground.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to address the people in the Executive who are the source of the many problems we face. The budget formulation in this country needs to be properly rearranged. Why do I say so?
Madam, since 1964, the information which is meant to formulate the budget in this country is only held by the Executive and not shared by other stakeholders such as independent and non-partisan stakeholders.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, to those that are privileged to be in the Government, institutions, like the World Bank, have invited them to help in resolving the problem which is faced in Africa and, also, Asia. What is obtaining in African countries is that there is no balance between the Executive and the Opposition, or the political environment. The Executive completely manipulates and marginalises the Opposition. There is no credibility and the information is kept to themselves.

Madam, as you aware, the information needed to make a budget is complex. It is not only complex, but also demands transparency. At the end of the day, the people of Zambia should have an input so that there is an impact on the formulation of the budget. This is the reason we encounter problems when we want to construct a tarmac road in a constituency. One has to go and see the Head of State if this has to be done. It is completely disappointing!

Mr Muyanda: Yes!

Major Chizhyuka: For example?

Mr Beene: For example, to have the Namwala/Niko Road re-done after it was abandoned for nine years, it had to take the late President, His Excellency Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, to go to Namwala and do that, and yet the efforts of people, like the late Nkumbula, could not even be remembered.

Madam Speaker, this country should consider putting up an independent legislative budget unit which will be non-partisan. It will be able to give out proper information to be shared and not let the Executive alone take all the resources to their constituencies, leaving other places. That is where the problem is.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Otherwise, we will come in and out of this House and no developmental activities will be happening in our respective areas. That is a fact on the ground. This system is happening in all countries that are focused. The information, on budget formulation, that is kept as a secret by the Executive, can be shared with all Members. That is why I feel that this budget is traumatising.

Madam, on communication, I will not go into details, but try to be simplistic so that we can all understand the problems. This country has got railway lines in Eastern Province and other places. We also have a railway line which runs from Livingstone to the Copperbelt and the mines.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: The roads of this country have been damaged extensively.

Hon. Member: By whom?

Mr Beene: The one road we have from Kitwe, Ndola passing through Lusaka to Livingstone has been damaged because the kind of weight being carried on it is too much to be sustained by the road.

Ms Limata: Maintenance!

Mr Beene: This Government has not said anything about the company it is going to partner with in working on the very important infrastructure, such as the railway line which runs from Livingstone to Kitwe and the mines. That is why I am saying it is traumatising. It is not making an input to communication.

Madam Speaker, talking about the Road Traffic and Safety Agency, if you want to get a road tax certificate or licence, you find that there are long queues going up to Matero.

Laughter

Mr Beene: You will be parked there for hours just waiting to buy road tax certificate. This is a reality. Yet, the Minister of Communications and Transport stays in Lusaka – right here. Somebody will wait for hours with his money and when he tries to deal with someone to get the road tax certificate through other means, he will be arrested and asked to pay K1.8 million. Madam Speaker that is a recipe for confusion …

Mrs Phiri: Corruption!

Hon. Member: Yes, corruption!

Mr Beene: This budget has not addressed the issue of improving the infrastructure there to make it easy, and this is why I am saying that it is traumatising to the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, most of the time the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has come to mislead this House that in Itezhi Tezhi we are going to put up a power station. I have asked in this House where they are going to pass with their turbines. If one has no knowledge of turbines and sensitivity of the equipment, they will pass in a bush path where you need a slasher to cut the grass as if that road was not tarred. Sir, which plane are you going to hire to do this job? I urge you to stop misleading this country. Where you have failed, just admit that you have failed. People have been drilling rocks and nothing is happening.

Madam Speaker, I do not even understand the engineering taking place because if you have tarred a road and it gets damaged, you need to resurface it. You put a little money in the budget for you to go and put gravel on a tarmac road. I think we need to go back to the university and do a bit of something.

Madam Speaker, Itezhi Tezhi has serious power outages and the biggest goose which is going to lay a lot of golden eggs in this country is the mines, but they have serious power shortage. The Government should have put a lot of emphasis on putting in place electricity infrastructure. All I hear is people trying to reverse laws here that we are putting new taxes because the copper price has dwindled.

Madam Speaker, we had a problem of oil in this country. The barrel of oil had gone up to almost US $200 but suddenly the price dropped. Did we hear of anybody going to change legislation? Madam Speaker, I urge this Government not to bring laws here which were passed less than six months ago because anything can happen. At the moment, countries which are responsible like China, America, Germany and others are stimulating their economies. The copper which made the prices shoot up was from China and America, and those countries are stimulating their economies, but you want to pass legislation to push us backwards. That is unacceptable.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, I now want to discuss issues pertaining to labour. Madam Speaker, it is traumatising to note that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services are the least funded when this is where the socio-economic and cultural benefits of the Zambian people are supposed to be and the people should be getting what is due to them from there. Why should these ministries be given less funding? The problem we have in this country is the budget formulation. The equation between the Executive and the Legislature is completely unbalanced and so we need to put in place everything so that when we come to this House, we argue less and just approve the budget.

Madam Speaker, I now want to discuss agriculture. Madam Speaker, we need strategic thinking so that we do not get stuck. We should be able to change according to situations. We cannot entertain the idea of importing maize where other people will start benefiting through pilfering. This country has so far got good rainfall and we expect a bumper harvest and you should have enough money for the peasant farmers as the situation is terrible because of the economy caving in. That is what is expected, but what are we doing here?

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, I now move to education. Madam Speaker, the reality on the ground …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. Again the Chair would like to remind the House that points of order should not just be on anything. The points of order should be on points of procedure or fact. The hon. Member may raise the point of order.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker, is my colleague from my neighbouring constituency, the hon. Member for Itezhi Tezhi, in order to leave out the fact that, of the imported maize coming into the country - from the 200,000 metric tonnes being imported – some of it is genetically maize and that, at the expense of the taxpayer, because Zambia does not accept GMO maize, that maize must go back at the expense of the Zambian people? Is he in order not to mention those details in his discussion?

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member debating is very much in order, but the hon. Member who has raised that point of order is trying to debate through a point of order. Those are your facts as you know them and you will debate them when your time comes. The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Beene: This country, Madam Speaker does not need GMOs …

Mr Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … because they are a danger to health and we are fit enough to produce clean food. People are talking about a good environment and if we are continuing with the legacy of the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, doing this will be departing from that legacy. Madam Speaker, the GMO maize is not required.

Madam Speaker, I now want to discuss health. Madam, speaking for Itezhi Tezhi Constituency which is actually a district, this budget is traumatising and a serious hiccup which is sending a bad message to the people of Itezhi Tezhi. Madam Speaker, the hospital in the district was built with the help of the chiefs in Southern Province and there is nothing being done there by Government. Madam Speaker, even those people who will be sent there to build a power station will be going there at their own risk because the hospital is old and in a bad state and the Government has not addressed anything. When we get into serious problems at that hospital, especially that it gets power from Choma, which is many miles away, people have died on the operating table, and this is unfortunate. These issues have not been addressed by the Ministry of Health although I note that seminars have reduced a bit.

Hon. Opposition Member: Tell them, mwana.

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, the speech was hollow.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, we have a very serious problem in my constituency which this Government has failed to address. My constituency is the second biggest constituency in Southern Province, second only to Kazungula. You should make sure that the people of Itezhi Tezhi also enjoy the fruits of this country.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: The problem with the budgeting process which the Executive enjoys and abuses when allocating resources is extremely unfortunate. The Zambian people are hearing and they have to decide. I think the Executive has only about two budgets to present to this country. People want to enjoy their socio-economic benefits.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Currently, the Executive will always present the National Budget as per the Constitution. You may remember that as you debate.

Can you continue, please?

Mr Beene: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just hope that the Constitution will stand the test of time, especially for those who are in that committee. They should make sure that they deal with that factor of the budget …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … so that the budget can be meaningful and trickle down to the Zambian people. As long as the budget process is going to remain the way it is, then it will be very difficult for the Zambian people to benefit. The Government will always have the chance to do things which may not be of help to the Zambian people whom they represent. We have a problem with certain hon. Ministers who are just supposed to be stewards, but feel as if they own the resources of this country and yet, they are just representatives of the Zambian people. These are completely misplaced by the people they represent.

Hon. Opposition Member: Mulongoti.

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, let me talk about the mines. This country has a lot to do with mines. We have had serious Members of Parliament coming from those constituencies where there are mines. They have tried to advise the Executive day and night on how to go about with the mines, but I do not know why we ended up the way we did. There was a lot of money which was raised after an Act was passed in this Parliament. Unfortunately, the Government did not even know what to do with that money. Therefore, I am urging this Government to come in and help to find a way of using that money which was raised. If it means using money from Supplementary Estimates, let us do so to help those people who have lost employment on the Copperbelt. The situation is extremely serious.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, I do not understand why this Government should just sit and not think of stimulating factors to increase this economy so that we can move at the same pace with the rest of the world. However, I am sure the Opposition, here, is ready to give guidance. We have qualified economists here and indigenous people of Zambia all the time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: With these few words, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for according me the opportunity to debate on the Floor of this House. I would like, first and foremost, to thank the President for his speech and I would also like to thank the Minister of Finance and National Planning for his Budget Speech.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I believe the President gives a policy framework ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … and this policy framework has been strengthened by the Budget Speech which is answering to most of the things that the President said. What is remaining now is for our hon. Ministers and the civil servants to interpret the policy statements and implement them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: So, in my opinion, I find the budget to be realistic under the circumstances.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The hon. Ministers and civil servants have a task to implement. We can write good things and say a lot of things, but if they are not implemented, nobody will appreciate them.

Secondly, if we implement but do not monitor or follow up, then we will not know what is happening because we are supposed to have a baseline where we will measure whether we are improving or not. If we do not evaluate our jobs, then we are just moving in a circle.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to implementation, I urge all the stakeholders to come together and assist, if we are going to get anything out of our budget. I would like to urge the Zambians, true Zambians and indigenous Zambians, that there should be a time when we forget about our political, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … religious and tribal differences, and move together to serve mother Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Mbuya, hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, let me come to technical and vocational training. The President said the Government would review technical education and entrepreneurship. This has been also supported by the slight increase in the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training. We know that in our education system, we train children to leave us to go and find jobs but, now, under the circumstances where jobs are being cut every day, where will our children be? Our children need skills which will make them survive under these new circumstances. When I look at my constituency in Matero - somebody just mentioned Matero that they make dollars - I have youths who are very enterprising. They are intelligent, have innovation and can do a lot. What we need are skills centres. If the Government can afford, we need these in our constituencies so that all the children that fall out of school can be given skills that would help them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: And we should make business easy. When we talk about empowerment, let it be realistic. Let our children come up with clubs and cooperatives so that they can do something that is meaningful, but if we make it very difficult even to access the money, then it becomes a very big problem. Immediately we do not address the issues of youths, in a year’s time we will be addressing issues of criminal offences in the country.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my brother, hon. Lungwangwa, the Minister of Education.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I think you have made very serious strides in the ministry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: We have seen access being improved. I know we are building a lot of schools that there is one thing that you should attend to, our children from Grade 1 to 4, especially in the rural areas where the distances are unmanageable. Let us see to it that we build small schools within reach which the children, who are in Grades 1, 2 and 3 because they are young, can be able to walk. After Grades 4 and 5, at least, they have the energy to walk to further schools, they can manage.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: That is why you find that our girl children do not go to school because as mothers, I would feel very uncomfortable to send my girl to walk ten kilometres and she is only in Grade 1. So, please, let us replicate the schools and may be we upgrade the community schools. I think that is how they came into being so that at least education can be accessed in reasonable distances.

I have always talked about the curriculum in our schools and will not stop until we achieve one that is meaningful to this country. There is need to allow other stakeholders to take part in curriculum reforms. We should not just concentrate on curricula for subjects like civics and so on and so forth, but devise a curriculum that is indigenous and has the input of the local people. For example, if the people in North-Western Province decide that they are going to keep bees, let bee-keeping be included in the curriculum of the schools in that area. If the people of Luapula Province think that fishing is very important, let it be included in the curriculum of their school children so that they learn better methods of fishing. When they leave school, they can make a living from fishing.

I remember the late President, Dr Levy Mwanawasa, once said that we should teach our children to be innovative. This means teaching our children to be creative and we can only achieve that by reforming the curriculum and not making minor changes to what we have been using in the past. I know that reforming our school curriculum would be expensive and, therefore, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should allocate more money to the Ministry of Education. Let us have a curriculum that is going to be meaningful to this country.

Now, I would like to talk about school infrastructure. I know that when I refer to Matero Constituency, people might say that there are quite a number of schools in the area. However, I have a lot of children that need education in my constituency. I would like to thank the Government for giving me one high school but I think I need more …

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … schools in the area. The number of schools in Matero is not enough to cater for all the people in the constituency. I would like to urge the hon. Minister Finance and National Planning to allocate us more money next time so that we can also have more schools. Education is the key to development. We are talking about poverty but when we educate people, I am sure we are going to reduce it.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Let me now talk about the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) in the agricultural sector. This is a very good programme and is well meant but it has not been managed properly. This is because we let it be administered by the wrong people. I think it is high time all of us took keen interest in the distribution of fertiliser. It does not help matters to just criticise and not offer solutions.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: We need all the people that have ideas to speak up now and give suggestions on the managing of the FSP.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: A critic must be able to give solutions and that is what is called constructive criticism.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: We do not want empty criticism as it is easier to criticise than to do something.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: So, if we give the hon. Members on your right ideas, they will listen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: If somebody comes and tells me that I have done something wrong and advises me on how to correct things, I think I will pay more attention than when somebody just comes to me to criticise, insult and so on and so forth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Since we have finished with the distribution of fertiliser, I think it is now time to sit down as stakeholders, including hon. Members of Parliament, and see how we are going to distribute this commodity in future.

Let us now come to another subject of my interest, which is the media. I would like the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting to see to it that the media has ethics.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Ema hon. Member of Parliament aba.

Mrs Sinyangwe: A news reporter is not a newsmaker.

Hon. MMD and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The newsmaker is the person found doing something. However, our reporters have now become newsmakers.

Hon. MMD and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: They want to make their own opinions, write what they think and it is shameful that people must say that they do not want the media ...

Major Chizhyuka: Imagine!

Mrs Sinyangwe: On the other hand, the media is a partner in development. The other day, there was a report at the NCC stating that the media was not wanted. This is because of the way the journalists are reporting. They have thrown the ethics of their profession to the wind.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Maybe, the hon. Minister needs to ensure that they have adequate training. It is unfortunate that the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services is not given priority when it comes to budget allocations. It is as if this ministry is only given the surplus after all the other Government institutions have received their allocations. We need to train our people in the media so that they know how to report properly. At the moment, they are reporting and fostering their own agendas, and we do not want that. We also do not want to reach a point where we are going to say, “To hell with the media”. We need it and it needs us. We need each other and, therefore, journalists have to adhere to their ethics in their reporting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: In fact, the role of the media is to educate, inform and entertain, but not antagonise.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I now come to health matters.

Hon. Members: No, talk about the media.

Mrs Sinyangwe: When I look at the Ministry of Health, one thing that strikes me is the issue of cholera. It is like we have accepted that cholera is part of us and, every rainy season, we are going to have it. I remember, two years ago, I raised a Motion on cholera and we unanimously agreed, here, that we were going to do everything possible to prevent it.

However, what we seeing now is that my own district, Lusaka, is a shame with 44 per cent of all cholera cases in the country. What are we doing about it and the unplanned settlements? It is a pity the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is not here. It is high time we stopped cheap popularity. Let us not do things for people to praise us. We must do the right things. Why are we letting street vendors trade along street corridors? Let us remove them from the corridors because …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mrs Sinyangwe left her microphone on.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Please, switch off your microphone.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, it is not my wish to interrupt your deliberations or, indeed, my sister-in-law. Yet, is she in order to get concerned about the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing not being in the House when, in fact, all of us are here, and Hon. Puma is seated not far from her? This is misleading to the nation as she is insinuating that the Government is not in the House, and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing has just sat in the chair. Is she in order, Madam?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President has raised a point of order on the fact that the hon. Member has mentioned, in her debate, that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is not in the House. The hon. Deputy Minister also says the Government is here. The Chair would like to guide as follows. The Executive is, indeed, here and, therefore, if the debater mentions the absence of the Government, that is a different matter. However, when the debater is specific and the hon. Minister is not here, that is a statement of fact.

You may continue.

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, like I always say, cholera is not in the villages despite people still drinking water from the wells. If you go to Matero Market, now, you will find people trading there, cutting small pieces of chicken that are put anyhow. The layer of flies is more than the chicken itself.

Laughter

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, for us to prevent cholera, we must seriously think of how we are going to address the issue of markets and how they are going to sell their merchandise in a decent place. In my constituency, there is not even a market worth talking about. You will find that within the market, there are bars where people drink beer from. As a result of alcohol, they go round the markets and help themselves. Then, the following morning, the same floors are used to display their food for sale and people will be eating from there.

The other daunting issue is the issue of street vendors. These must be cleared. I, for one, do not believe in the cheap popularity of pleasing certain people who are doing wrong things.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: In my constituency, I will come and help you because when it comes to development, we are partners. Whenever there is something wrong we should correct it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, since many of our people have no jobs, there is need for us to build more markets where people who want to live by trading can trade in decent places, and this will reduce the number of vendors.

Madam Speaker, as regards the issue of a cholera centre in Matero, and from what you are telling me, it is a clear indication that we have accepted that cholera is part of us. Every year, it comes and nothing is being done. Let us build a permanent cholera clinic or hospital away from the people.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to know that in my constituency there are 120 cholera patients who do not reside in Matero. If there are, they could be only a few. However, my people are very vulnerable because they have to go to the same clinic which is a cholera centre and, as a result, they are contracting the disease. Nowadays, the number of cholera patients is increasing and the clinic has run out of manpower. They have asked my women, who are not properly trained, to volunteer and start working in these cholera centres, putting their lives at risk. Therefore, let us build a clinic and have trained staff to attend to these patients.

As it is now, those people in tents are living uncomfortable lives. I have been there several times. When it is cold, it is cold and when it is hot, it is hot. There are no doors, and they just sleep like animals. There are women, who go there in labour, and imagine how uncomfortable it is for a woman to deliver in a tent. Let us not pretend that these things are not happening. Chose a place …

Mr Sichilima interjected.

Mrs Sinyangwe: Hon. Minister, this is a matter of urgency. Before the rainy season comes, these people must build a permanent structure for cholera patients because they are also human beings and pay tax just like any other person. Now, it has been proven that these tents are not temporary, but permanent shelters. They started living in tents in October and, to date, they are still there. Therefore, they need better places.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have analysed the budget and found it wanting.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, this budget, as it is now, stands condemned because, as I look at it, it is not a budget for the common man and neither is it a budget for the peasant farmer. It is a budget for the rich man who will become richer and acquire more assets while the poor will continue to be poor with no hope of survival. This budget is not there for the common man on the Copperbelt. Although there is a caption saying it is for national growth, it is only for a select few. The majority will have to compete, but in vain. The rest of this year’s budget is for the haves and not the have nots. The majority will continue to be expectant, but will not see the results.

Madam Speaker, when you look at the cover of this year’s budget, there is a picture there for Lusaka and the Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) in Lusaka, taken at three different angles. They are taken from three different angles and what I am seeing is a situation where Lusaka will have a face lift from the picture, but that …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can the House, please, pay attention to the debate, instead of this consultation which is going even across the Floor? Can we lower our voices when there is need to consult or talk to one another?

May the hon. Member, please, continue?

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, Lusaka will have a face lift in as far as Chinese buildings are concerned. What I am trying to put across is that those buildings will be in the hands of foreigners, and I see an improved Lusaka with those bats.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: There seems to be a problem. I see China coming and carrying out a hostile economic takeover in Zambia.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am sorry, but I have to raise a point of order on my very good colleague. Is he is in order to say that the Lusaka MFEZ is in Lusaka when he knows very well that it is in Chongwe? Is he in order to mislead the public?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member may remember to take into consideration that point of order. You may continue.

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, the MFEZ is in Lusaka East and South. China is trying to carry out a hostile economic take over while the Zambian continues to be a beggar in his own country. I see poverty increasing in Zambia, especially in the rural majority.

Madam Speaker, when the President came to this House, he said we should be able to find a solution to urbanisation. However, with these MFEZs being put up in Lusaka and Chambishi, I see a situation where people in Kaputa will have to travel to Chambishi or Lusaka. The struggle for urbanisation will continue and there will be a situation where people will start migrating to Lusaka to come and enjoy the facilities which are not in rural areas. Having gone through this Budget Speech, you will realise that some of the statements that the President made, the hon. Minister has not taken into consideration. The President wanted to stop urbanisation, but this has not been done.

Madam Speaker, let us now look at the details of this budget. If you do your figures from the PAYE, which is in the Budget Speech, you will find that it is contributing 17.62 per cent to the National Budget. This is a very high figure. The employees were expecting a relief from that, but we see a situation where they will continue having problems as there will be no food for them on the table. Even the food basket of K1.2 million was not considered. If I were to do the budget, I would have put the threshold at K1.5 million so that the employee is cushioned. This budget does not give hope to the employee. Therefore, I will put it that it is taking the employee from opportunistic to hopelessness because there is no hope for them of paying less tax. They are expected to continue living the way they have been living, if not worse.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Right now, I do not see a cushion for them. I will try to explain what I mean by not seeing a cushion since I have done some analysis.

Madam Speaker, there is no hope because of the high the rate of the PAYE. The following is the illustration of the current regime:

Current Regime

Salary PAYE

K1,000,000 K100,000

K2,000,000 K388,250

K5,000,000 K1,338,250

K10,000,000 K3,088,250

Madam Speaker, in the new tax regime which the hon. Minister has proposed, the following obtains:

Proposed Regime

Salary PAYE Cushion

K1,000,000 K75,000 K25,000

K2,000,000 K358,250 K30,000

K5,000,000 K1,303,250 K35,000

K10,000,000 K3,053,250 K35,000

Madam Speaker, these figures show that in this year’s budget, the gap between the least and the highest paid, has increased. Therefore, as far as PAYE is concerned, the gap between the poor and the rich has increased. Was it the intention of the Government to increase the gap? This is why I am saying that this budget is for the rich and not the poor. Therefore, if the gap is increasing, what are we doing to adjust it?

Madam Speaker, I was looking forward to a situation where the gap would be narrowed in order for the common man on the street to also enjoy. However, if the gap continues to increase, what are we doing? What is the Government there for?

Madam Speaker, I have noticed that we have allocated 11.9 per cent of the total budget to health, which is an increase of 0.5 per cent from last year’s allocation. I have wondered why it should be like this.

Madam Speaker, out of this allocation to health, 5.1 per cent will go towards the fight against malaria because it is currently the number one killer disease. Why should we provide such a small amount of money to such a serious disease?

Madam Speaker, the fight against HIV/AIDS has been allocated 9.4 per cent. HIV/AIDS is not the only serious disease. There are other terminal illnesses like hypertension and diabetes. They have not been taken into consideration. The people of Zambia will continue to die because this Government has not put things in place in order for the majority who are diabetic and hypertensive to be protected in this country. These are also terminal diseases which were supposed to have been considered.

Madam Speaker, our people will continue to carry their dead on their backs and on wheelbarrows because this Government has not provided enough money.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Mukanga: It is important that the Government looks at health from a more serious angle as it is very cardinal. If we have a healthy nation, we shall go far in development.

Madam Speaker, with regard to diversification, I am very disappointed with the way the term has been used in this budget. When we said that we were going to diversify from copper to agriculture, I expected that even agriculture would diversify. We needed to look at the fishing industry. The fisheries have not been taken care of in this budget. Where do we leave the people of the Luapula and Western provinces who depend on their rivers? They were supposed to have been provided for. However, the hon. Minister has not provided for that in this particular budget.

Madam Speaker, I thought that having had a lot of problems with the Fertiliser Support Programme, the hon. Minister would diversify activities in agriculture where people in Luapula Province can grow cassava and those in Eastern province can grow groundnuts so that the nation does not depend on maize. Without this, he is fighting a losing battle. We have seen that this battle, as far as the fertiliser is concerned, is a non-starter. We have failed because Omnia Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited failed to do a good job. Why are we even considering these two companies this year? These two companies should not be considered this year and the Government should ensure that a proper mechanism is put in place so that everyone is afforded a good deal.

Madam Speaker, in his presentation, the hon. Minister said he had increased the budget on agriculture by 37 per cent, thereby misleading the people. The increment, right now, in the books is only 7.1 per cent of the National Budget which is way below the declaration that this Government has made and the conventions that it has signed. The Maputo Agreement, just as the Abuja Declaration on Health, has not been followed. What is the purpose of signing conventions and declarations that you will not adhere to? It is important that we look at issues from a more serious angle if we are to move forward.

Madam Speaker, machinery for agriculture has been zero rated. Who are they doing it for? It is important that they tell us who they are doing it for because the peasant farmer is not going to manage to buy a tractor or a pump because he does not have the money, unless there is a mechanism provided to ensure that he is properly empowered to obtain this machinery. Members of the Government will be buying for themselves. Madam, we are going to monitor and see who, specifically, they are doing it for. I know that they have farms.

Madam Speaker, I pity some people in the House, in the MMD, who come from the Copperbelt. The people you represent are suffering and yet you say you are providing for them. They are in total poverty. They need to go into agriculture, especially now that they are no longer employed by the mines. However, how will they do that when there is nothing on the ground?

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: I think it is important that we address issues squarely. We should not say that we are alleviating poverty and yet the poverty continues. Poverty will continue because the economic growth recorded in Zambia in the last two years was averaging 6 per cent. That is why we were told that there was alleviation of poverty of about 10 per cent from 74 per cent…

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we have order in the House, please? The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, the growth was averaged at about 6 per cent and we only managed about 10 per cent reduction on poverty reduction, which is only theoretical.

Madam Speaker, the global recession is real. It is not a joke and no one should take it lightly.

Madam, developed countries like Germany recorded reduced economic growth of 0.5 per cent in the third quarter of 2008. We are told that for the first time in five years, the German economy is going into recession.

Madam, Japan also recorded a reduction of 0.4 per cent of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). We are told that it experienced a negative growth in the second quarter and is going into recession for the first time since 2001. The recession is real and we need to be serious.

Madam Speaker, the American GDP dropped by 0.5 per cent in the third quarter of 2008, and 3 per cent in the fourth quarter. America has also gone into recession.

The recession is real and calls for serious answers. We also need to brace for hard times. This is why I told the Zambian people that this budget and the President’s Speech confirmed that we need to brace for hard times. We should work hard and ensure that things go the way we want because this Government is not assuring us of anything. The only assurance we get this year is poverty.

Hon. Opposition Member: Cholera!

Mr Mukanga: The other assurance we are getting is cholera. We shall continue to experience cholera outbreaks if we are not providing all amenities.

Madam Speaker, as regards construction and manufacturing, the hon. Minister did not give a solution. What did he talk about? The Multi-Facility Economic Zones. If the MFEZ will be the Chambishi plan of bringing the Chinese to come and enjoy in Zambia, we shall refuse it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We will not entertain the Chinese to come and offer slave conditions to Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mukanga: We will reject the Chinese investment unless it is tailored to suit the Zambians. We want our people in Zambia to enjoy. We do not want foreigners to come and rip this country off while we watch.

Mr Speaker, even on energy, I do not know where we get all these things from. While I appreciate that there are a lot of problems in the energy sector, I wonder why we have to increase ZESCO tariffs. Where are the Zambians going to get the money to pay the high tariffs? It is important that we do not pay for the inefficiencies at ZESCO. If ZESCO fails to perform, ensure that you get rid of the inefficient management and put the right people in place. We do not want that burden to be transferred to the Zambians. We want Zambians to pay for something that they have used. Therefore, we are saying no to inefficiencies, yes to the correct things and no to things that are not right in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about the CDF. CDF in this budget does not offer us any joy. Increasing CDF to K450 million is not acceptable because we expected it to increase to K1 billion this year. I thank Hon. Magande and Hon. Sylvia Masebo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We increased CDF from K30 million, K60 million and K200 million. This year, we expected it to increase to K1 billion, but nothing has happened. These things are already in the files. Why do you not check what were in the files because it was agreed that we would increase CDF this year?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, address the Chair!

Mr Mukanga: This year, CDF is only K450 million. Normally, we use CDF to construct clinics, schools and street lights in Kantanshi, but if it is not enough, what projects can we carry out our constituencies? Therefore, it is important that these things are done well.

Madam Speaker, with regard to mining, I would like to say that we need to learn from the past although we do not seem to because we waste a lot of time talking. Last year, we pushed for the windfall tax and the Government grew cold feet. They moved at a slow pace and afterwards told us that they did not raise enough money from the windfall tax. Why should you tell us, today, that you are going to bring a Bill for amendment? We will reject it!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We will not accept that! Who is the Government trying to impress?

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, who are they trying to impress by bringing a Bill for amendment? The people in Kantanshi are jobless while this Government continues to sing songs that they will pay them their terminal benefits. They are not interested in terminal benefits because they want jobs. The Government needs to move in and assist people. It needs to understand that we are what we are today because of the way this Government has been operating. We need an efficient Government.

Mr Lubinda: Ni bamalukula!

Mr Mukanga: We need people in the Government who are going to look at the needs of others. We do not need people who, when they come into Government, make a budget that is tailored to suit their own needs. No! It should be for all the people out there. We are here because of the people and we should ensure that we do things on behalf of the 11 million Zambians. It should not be for one person.

Madam Speaker, when we introduced the windfall tax, everybody was excited, but I am very disappointed, today, to hear that we did nothing. I think we just wasted taxpayers’ money by coming here to sit and never did anything. Now, the Government wants to waste more paper by bringing Bills and man hours for amending the Bill. We will not do that.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We will not accept that!

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) needs to put a department in place to monitor production and direct foreign investment taking place in the mines. ZRA should ensure that mining companies fully declare their revenue so that we know our entitlement in terms of tax, as a country. We should not allow investors to take advantage of us. If things are not properly done, we will continue debating in this House, but nothing is going to change on the ground.

I would like to inform the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that we expect a better budget next year. However, this year, we need to amend and increase the CDF to K1 billion per constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This will enable us to take development to our constituencies. I think we need a Minister of Finance and National Planning who has a constituency …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … so that he understands our problems. The hon. Minister should look for a constituency somewhere from the MMD group so that he can see what is happening on the ground.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata (Luampa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving this opportunity to contribute on this Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam I will start by welcoming my brother (Dr Musokotwane) who has just joined us in this Chamber. Madam Speaker, I will start with agriculture.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Limata: I am a Member of Parliament for Luampa which is a rural constituency. This is a typical rural area where people are starving. Despite the starvation there, I am proud to have been born in Western Province …

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: … and will die there.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: A long time ago, we used to grow rice, finger millet and sorghum in Western Province but, today, the situation is different.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: During the Presidential campaigns, the MMD promised people that fertiliser would be sold at K50,000 per bag. As a result, the people of Western Province voted for the MMD Government. When the MMD won elections, they forgot about the people of Western Province …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: … who put them in power.

Madam Speaker, people in Luampa can grow maize and cassava, but they do not have seed or fertiliser.

Kaoma District and Luampa Constituency, in particular, can be productive as far as farming is concerned, but it is not allocated enough fertiliser. There is hunger in Luampa Constituency. Last time, I heard my young brother, the hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President saying that they are not going to …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister is not your young brother.

Laughter

Ms Limata: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for that correction.

He said that they were not going to send relief food to Luampa Constituency. The hon. Deputy Minister forgot that the people there are poor and cannot find money to buy fertiliser at K250,000 per bag.

H Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: I know that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is still a new man in this system, but I would urge him to listen to what the Opposition Members of Parliament are saying today.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: This is the only way to learn.

Madam, millet used to the staple food for the people of Western Province. The hon. Minister Agriculture and Co-operatives can introduce the type of cassava that is being grown in the Bangweulu area. This type of cassava can be harvested within one and half years. If this is introduced, there will be no hunger in Western Province. This type of cassava can be grown in Northern, Luapula and Western provinces because they are not doing very well in agriculture. They have forgotten about it.

In Luampa Constituency, not many people have received fertiliser for this year, but during the campaigns, they were promised that fertiliser would be sold at K50,000 per bag. That fertiliser is nowhere to be seen.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, farming is the only thing that people in rural areas can do and that is why the agricultural sector should be well funded so that poverty can be alleviated.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Poverty will not only be alleviated in Kaoma or Western Province, the entire country. Therefore, I am advising the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to increase funding instead of K37 billion. Agriculture in Western Province should improve.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister comes from Liuwa, where people used to grow rice, finger millet and winter maize, which we call matapa, but that is not being done now because the Government is not supporting them.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: I think the people of Western Province were just used by the MMD to win elections.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: After wining elections, they have forgotten about them.

Madam Speaker, when I am debating issues relating to agriculture, I become emotional because people in my constituency were just eating mangoes in November and December. Lack of fertiliser and seed …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, before we went on break, I was talking about agriculture. I was telling the Government to listen and do something about agriculture. It is not only in Luampa where people grow cassava. Cassava is grown even in Luapula and Northern provinces. We, therefore, want to promote the production of cassava so that hunger is reduced in our country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, coming to the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it is not only the hon. Opposition Members who need this fund. This fund is needed by Government Members as well. We can only groom ourselves in our constituencies through the CDF. That is where we can build our clinics, community schools and roads.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, the K67.5 billion that we have been given as Constituency Development Fund is not enough. We need this to be increased so that each constituency gets K1 billion. The Leader of Government Business in the House is looking at me and he is listening…

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Member, speak through the Chair.

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, this Constituency Development Fund is needed by each and every hon. Member who has a constituency. It is only those without constituencies who do not need it. I am sure, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, you are listening. Next year, in 2010, this K400 million must be increased K1 billion.

Hon. Members: This year!

Ms Limata: Sorry, Madam Speaker, I mean this year. You should sit down with your colleagues and increase this amount to K1 billion.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the citizens’ empowerment allocation, this money will not take us anywhere, especially for those of us from the rural areas. I think it will be very difficult for us, from rural areas, to receive this money.

This money will go to the rich people in urban areas, leaving out some of us that come from areas like Kaputa, Shang’ombo, Luampa, Kaoma Central, Chadiza, Namwala and Kalomo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: We will never receive that money.

Madam Speaker, why should we not pump back that money into the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, or the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development so that our youth can have access it?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, how can he assist the poor people of this country if he has forgotten about them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Limata: These are people who voted for you, but when you come into power you forget about them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! We need some order. There is need to encourage but when it is overdone, then the debate of the hon. Member will not be heard by the people that are supposed to hear. Can we please have some order?

You may continue.

Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, coming to the issue of education, I would like to say that the hon. Minister of Education has done a lot. However, I want to advise him to work even harder to improve the education sector even more. Rural areas must have more schools.

Madam speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, I am privileged in this House because I sit between two excellencies …

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: …who sometimes bring views to this House through their subordinates?

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful for giving me this chance to add my voice to the many voices that have already spoken before me. From the onset, I wish to register that this budget is worrying for the people of Dundumwezi.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: It might sound wrong, but for the people of Dundumwezi, who are also engulfed in this global financial crisis, it is another story. They are engulfed by a very thick darkness and they need to be told where to go. Now that they do not have employment and the country is in this financial crisis, they are asking for an exit. They need to survive.

Madam Speaker, the people of Dundumwezi have bad health facilities. They need this emergency exit to be provided through this budget. Unfortunately, all they can see is thick darkness ahead. They need someone from this Government to show them the exit. They need men and women of Hon. Professor Lungwangwa’s calibre.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, we are able to see this hon. Minister’s economic footprint around this country. If he has not yet done anything in your area yet, be patient because, I am sure, he will.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: I am an Independent Member of Parliament, but he has done so much for my constituency. I am sure he will do it for you, too. These are the kind of men and women we need in this time of …

Mrs Masebo: Economic crisis!

Mr Sing’ombe: …economic crisis.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the issue of gender. Last week or the other week, the hon. Deputy Minister of Gender and Women in Development (Ms Changwe) explained a lot of issues concerning gender. Unfortunately, she left one important thing which is very close to my heart.

Madam Speaker, this ministry has got a lot of human traffickers. We have people who are trafficking in humans. When you go round our country, our women in the rural areas have surrendered their youths to go and work in the urban areas for them. If we check around ourselves, you will find that a lot of youths are victims of human trafficking. If you do not know, there is what we call local human trafficking. There is a lot of local human trafficking going on in our country and this is an indication of high poverty levels in our rural set ups.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, what has this ministry done for our women folk in terms of sensitising them? They have educated their little ones and gone to the rural areas to bring their neighbours to come and look after their children.

Madam Speaker, we need this area to be addressed by the ministry responsible for gender. They must sensitise everyone, not only women but every one to stop local human trafficking. If we go ahead with this scourge, there is no way can we talk about international human trafficking. First of all, we should sweep our own homes before we go out to sweep other places or the homes of our neighbours.

Madam Speaker, I know that a number of hon. Members have spoken a lot about agriculture, but I also wish to add my voice on this ministry.

Madam Speaker, we are told that we have to diversify from mining to agriculture, but when you look at this budget, even the cover is not telling me that we are diversifying from mining to agriculture. All it is telling me is about urbanisation.

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, when are we going to empower the people in the rural areas? In which ways are we going to empower them? How are we going to show them the emergency exist so that they can also be counted and contribute to the economic development of this country. This can only be done by empowering them in agriculture.

The hon. Minister talked about 37 per cent increment in the allocation to agriculture. My question is: whose increment is this? I take it that it is an increment for officers. As of today, you have failed to discipline extension officers who misappropriated or mishandled the inputs in our rural areas.

Madam Speaker, extension officers have run away with huge sums of money. Yet, nothing has been done. What are we doing? Is that diversifying? Probably, we need to diversify you before you diversify the economy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Sing’ombe: Probably, you need to go on an operating table.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! May the hon. Member speak through the Chair?

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, we need to diversify hon. Ministers before they can bring these terms of diversifications.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Due to the problems that we are facing in this country, we need serious men and women who can sit with them and show them the exit door. Otherwise, they will be telling us stories every year. We do not need stories. We heard enough from our grandparents who could tell meaningful stories. What we want are tangible results from this Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: We want our roads worked on.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Since most of the people in this country have got vehicles, we do not need foot paths for roads, but proper roads.

Hon. Member: What about chiefs?

Mr Sing’ombe: Chiefs have got vehicles.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: They need better roads.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: It is costly to maintain vehicles. This country can only be productive if we built good roads. There is a saying that goes, “Where a good road goes, wealth also follows”.

Madam Speaker, I wanted to talk about tourism and Sichifulo, but I will leave that to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata.

Mr Lubinda: No, you can also talk about it.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, however, I will again talk about agriculture. Agriculture is a serious sector and we need to show seriousness. That is why I want to emphasise this point because I am a farmer.

Madam, some people are planting maize and others are planting seed maize. That is not right. For example, if two people are each given a 10 kilogram bag of seed maize and the other one a 10 kilogram bag of maize with fertiliser, the yield will be different.

Hon. Member: Sichifulo!

Mr Sing’ombe: All we are asking from this Government is: Can we come to a point where we are going to graduate from all the studies we have heard?

Surely, since 1964, this Government does not know what the people of Sinjembela, Luapula, Luampa and Dundumwezi want. What kind of studies are these that are so elastic that they have no end?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Can you be little bit serious, please?

The people of this country gave you a mandate. They gave you the so-called claimed or alleged mandate.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you, please, debate correctly? Do not make allegations. Debate correctly.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that we need to be a little serious in agriculture because if we are to diversify, people should see that there is a major shift from mines to agriculture. We do not want to see pictures every year that are not meaningful to the rural people. No!

Mr Lubinda: Can you imagine?

Mr Sing’ombe: No!

Madam Speaker, I would now like to talk about the Ministry of Home Affairs.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear! Immigration!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam, our men and women in uniform have not been considered in various aspects and yet, these are the people who look after the internal security of this country.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: What is the Government doing to ensure that these men and women in uniform are comfortable?

I can challenge any one of you, hon. Members, seated in here if you have ever seen their boots whilst on parade. One day, just try to stop and look at their boots. This serious Government cannot even afford to give them a pint of water when they are on duty. What type of Government are you?

Madam Speaker, as if it is not enough that this Government cannot afford to give them a pint of water whilst on duty, they still want them to stand along the roads when the President is passing. Why can he not fly from State House to the airport in a chopper rather than inconveniencing a lot of Zambians, and the men and women in uniform that are not even looked after properly?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I think it is high time we changed that. I know that once in a while, we need to see our President, but we do not actually see him when he is being driven. So, it is pointless to let him pass through these busy roads. The best thing to do is fly him over us. We do not mind. Let him go to the airport and continue with his national duties.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam, I would also like to talk about the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Immigration Department in particular. Can someone help me, please, and tell how secure the Immigration Department is? How ‘security’ is it?

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: How secure is it? Why?

Mr Munaile: Do not confuse the young man!

Mr Sing’ombe: Why?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: In 1993, the Public Service Commission wrote a circular that this department, from then onwards, was among the security wings, but why is it that when the President is coming in or leaving the country, I do not see an immigration officer lining up like other officers from different security departments? Madam Speaker, the Chief Immigration Officer is not there, and yet you say this is a security wing.

Madam Speaker, look at how this department has been marginalised. At this moment, I would like to thank the former hon. Minister of Home Affairs for modernising the department. From 1995 to the time I left the Immigration Department, I saw a very big change towards improvement from the time he assumed the position of hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Lubinda: Which one?

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, this is there for everyone to see. A person would enter the country through Chirundu and you want a person in Samfya to monitor him or her, but by what means when the passports are not even computerised? Madam Speaker, from the time he brought in modernisation in the department, we saw efficiency.

Professor F. Phiri: That is MMD at work.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to be consulting, and he can even consult me so that we can share some knowledge.

Madam Speaker, if he thinks I am minute, he can go to his colleague, Hon. Shikapwasha, who has vast knowledge in security matters and he will be assisted.

Hon. Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: We do not want a situation where we will embarrass our immigration officers. We have situations where this one arrests a prohibited immigrant and another one says, he is not a prohibited immigrant and this is happening in the same department. We need sanity in this department. The department must be empowered so that they can realise revenue to assist the country.

Madam Speaker, I now want to discuss tourism. Madam Speaker, I do not know whether tourism is outside diversification. If there is diversification in tourism, then the people of Sichifulo must also be given a chance to add to the food basket of our nation. How are you going to fill the deficit which you have created by removing the 12,000 people who were potential farmers? Madam Speaker, amidst food crisis, you are disarming proper farmers. What do you want to achieve? I challenge this hon. Minister to also diversify by thinking outside the box.

Interruptions

Mr Sing’ombe: If you are diversifying …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we stop the commentaries?

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, if you are diversifying, for which people are you doing it if, on the other side, you are removing them and denying them the chance to be productive? Madam Speaker, they must be given chance to add to the food basket of this nation.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, I want to echo the sentiments by my brother, Hon. Hamududu, Member of Parliament for Bweengwa.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, we are listening attentively to what the Member of Parliament is debating. There was an Act of Parliament in this House that forest reserves and, indeed, game reserves are going to be established. However, the hon. Member who is debating now is promoting illegality that we should go against that Act of Parliament …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Sichilima: … and that we should not move the people arising from the same Act that was passed by this House. Is he in order? I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You are not all Chairs. The difficulty sometimes encountered is the understanding of the House. The Chair believes that there are a lot of responses that will come from the Executive on some of the issues raised. Some of them may not be in line with policy or, indeed, the interpretation of the law. Therefore, one would expect that when time comes, these things will get their clarifications at that particular point. However, the hon. Member debating may consider that as he continues.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, probably, he has one Act in his office. I have plenty.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, laws are made for men.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, let me move away from that. Before he raised the point of order, I was just saying that I wanted to echo the statement made by my colleague, Hon. Hamududu, that in Southern Province we need a university.

UNPD Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, look at Choma Trades. What have we done to improve that institution? Look at Monze School of Agriculture. From time immemorial, we are still at certificate level. How are we going to improve agriculture and how are we going to diversify when you do not take all these things into consideration? We need one university at Livingstone Trades. We have bright and promising boys and girls who can assist you to diversify and even diversify you.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor. I will try my level best to make my contribution shorter than Hon. Lombe Mulenga’s speech yesterday.

Laughter

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, the speech on this year’s budget has been very difficult for some of us to comprehend, especially that we are looking at the performance of our Zambian kwacha to the dollar. When you look at what is being claimed as an increment on the actual budget, today, it does not give us a true picture and it does not bring any hope to the Zambian people, until such a time that we will be able to control the fluctuation of the Zambian currency.

Madam Speaker, in education, I know a number of my colleagues have been praising the Minister of Education that he has done so much.

However, as far as I am concerned, there is literally nothing to praise him for. I come from Kitwe and I am here in Lusaka where, in a number of schools, our school boys and girls are still sitting on the floor. Some schools in Lusaka do not have desks and chairs and yet the Government claims to be constructing schools in rural areas, simply because there are very few people who are able to travel to the rural areas and see whether the Government is, indeed, constructing these schools.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: If we cannot equip the schools around the areas we live, how can we even talk about building schools in places which are very far from here? In Kitwe, we have a number of community schools where teachers are not paid. We have pupils who are learning in purported classrooms that are life threatening because, during this rainy season, these buildings are leaking.

Hon. PF Members: And collapsing.

Mr Mwenya: They are collapsing, of course. So, what is there to show that the hon. Minister of Education is actually performing? Moreover, I do not like this tendency of saying we have constructed 1,000 classrooms. Why should we be using such a term? Why can we not say that we constructed 1,000 schools? It makes more sense than saying we have constructed 1,000 classrooms.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwenya: How are we going to tell that the Government has really constructed 1,000 classrooms?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: So let us stop misleading the nation. What we would want to see is the construction of more schools and not classrooms.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I have been the area hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana Constituency for the past two years and there has never been a single school that has been constructed in the area. In fact, even during the time of the construction of schools in various constituencies, districts and towns, Nkana never benefited a single school. Yet, we have a large population.

Madam Speaker, as regards agriculture, I know a number of my colleagues have spoken about diversification but we have not seen this actually taking place. We want the Zambian people to see change as we are diversifying. We have been singing this song for many years now but there is nothing that the Government can claim to have achieved in this regard.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwenya: For the past two years, when debating the budget, we have talked about more money being pumped into agriculture but we are not seeing any achievement at all. Where is the equipment that has been talked about so much? We are now being told that the Chinese equipment which was given to districts has broken down and is no longer functional. It seems this equipment was just meant to hoodwink the Zambian people into thinking that the Government was working and yet it is not doing anything at all.

Madam Speaker, coming to health, this is another area where this Government has failed.

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Mwenya: The Kitwe and Ndola Central hospitals on the Copperbelt were built a long time ago. These two hospitals cater for Luapula, North-Western, Northern and Copperbelt provinces. The growth of the population in these provinces has overwhelmed the two hospitals. I have proposed, on the Floor of this House, that we need to buy back the Sinozam Hospital in Kitwe. The Chinese have been misleading the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt Province that they will rehabilitate this hospital. The hon. Minister has been to that hospital twice and we have been informed in the press that the Chinese intended to rehabilitate it and pump in so much money. However, to date, Sinozam Hospital is still in shambles.

Mr V. Mwale: Question!

Mr Mwenya: The equipment which the Chinese are using there was left by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines, ZCCM. The Chinese never brought any new equipment at all. Therefore, why do we keep on protecting them when they are not adding any value to the nation? If the hospital was left in the hands of Zambians, it could have benefited many Zambians on the Copperbelt. Of course, I know that we do not have enough revenue, but why can we not take advantage of the infrastructure which is already there?

Madam Speaker, infrastructure is a very serious concern in Zambia, but we have a tendency of telling stories whenever we debate our National Budget. For instance, you will hear the Government saying that JICA is promising to bring in so many dollars for the roads on the Copperbelt. We have heard this song on several occasions and we are now fed up. For how long have you been talking about the Mufuchani Bridge? Come and see the road network in Kitwe or the Copperbelt in general.

Mr Speaker, it is sad to state that in this year’s budget, there is literally nothing that has been allocated for the town centres on the Copperbelt. Whatever has been allocated on the Copperbelt is being targeted at Lufwanyama, Mpongwe and Masaiti. Why should it be like that?

Hon. Government Member: You did not vote well!

Mr Mwenya: The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning needs to look at that critically because if we talk of being at …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Consultations must be lowered. Continue hon. Member.

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, if this country has to find its way out of the quagmire in which we are in terms of the financial and economic crisis, the Government should, first and foremost, consider upgrading the state of infrastructure in towns along the line of rail before we think of going rural.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, it is the people in towns who are paying so much in terms of fuel levy …

Interruptions

Mr Mwenya: … and whatever is realised from this fuel levy, nothing goes to these people. For instance, Lusaka and the Copperbelt are the two areas where we are realising so much revenue in terms of fuel levy, but when it comes to allocation, these areas are not receiving anything at all.

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I did not mean to interrupt my cousin who is also pointing his fist at me …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! There are no cousins here!

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: I did not want to interrupt his debate …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Whose debate?

Mr Mbewe: Hon. Mwenya’s debate.

Is he in order to say that people in rural areas have not contributed so much in terms of fuel as compared with those in towns and yet the rural community …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, if you want the Chair to make any ruling, you must listen.

You may continue hon. Member.

Mr Mbewe: Is he in order to despise people in rural areas by saying that they are not contributing much to this economy in terms of fuel levy and yet the rural people are the ones who are producing the foodstuffs which are making these people fat?

I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chadiza has raised a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament debating who, in his debate, advised the Government to first develop the urban areas where people who pay fuel levy are. The ruling of the Chair is that Zambia, as is always debated in the House, is one and the Government revenue comes in many ways and development is not dependent on who is producing what, but the entire nation is fed. Therefore, the hon. Member is not in order to debate in that manner.

You may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to centre my debate on the manufacturing industry. I read the speech of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and discovered that there was not much meat on the manufacturing industry.

Mr V. Mwale: Question!

Mr Mwenya: What was said in the speech was that we need to focus on the MFEZ as a country. These economic zones that we seem to be so obsessed with will not redeem the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: If we cannot help to invest or empower those who are in the manufacturing industry, then the economy will never grow. It is only when we empower the manufacturing industry that we will be able to control the production cost of copper in this country. The situation that is currently obtaining is that suppliers and contractors have to go to South Africa to buy even a simple nut or bolt.

Hon. MMD Member: Awe!

Mr Mwenya: This has led to the high cost of copper production. Therefore, the Government needs to seriously consider empowering the manufacturing industry so that we can start to produce certain things that we need to use as a country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, in the Kaunda era, for example, Ndola was doing very well in terms of industry. There were a lot of industries in Ndola.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: There used to be a very big industrial plant in the North-Western Province. The Luapula Province also had a number of plants. Literally, all provincial headquarters had industries to talk about.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, what industry can this Government claim to have sustained in over eighteen years that it has been in power?

Mr Lubinda: They have destroyed everything!

Mr Mwenya: This Government has killed and shared everything and is now saying that we should just depend on foreign direct investment. We are always extending a begging bowl. When are we going to identify ourselves as a people …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: … and depend on ourselves? When are we ever going to feed ourselves? This is the challenge that we have.

Madam Speaker, there is no point in the House enacting laws when the Government is failing to implement them.

I am referring to the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2008. Section 136 of this Act stipulates that we need to share the mineral royalties. The Government has failed to tell us how much has been realised from the mineral royalties. It has failed to put in place the mechanism of sharing the mineral royalties. That is the only option for us in the mining towns. That is the money we are depending on to develop our constituencies. Since this is war, we are not going to sit back. We shall seek legal redress if we have to.

Mr V. Mwale: Question!

Mr Mwenya: We agreed, on the Floor of this House, that we would be sharing the mineral royalties and there is no option but to share.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Members: With who?

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, finally, I want to appeal to fellow hon. Members of Parliament that the CDF …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1917 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 5th February, 2009.

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