DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 5th February, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REBUILDING OF THE KAOLE STADIUM WALLS

74. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development when the rebuilding of the collapsed walls of Kaole Stadium would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the walls of Kaole Stadium collapsed in January, 2008. By that time, the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development had already prepared its budget and, therefore, there was no provision for rebuilding the walls of the stadium.

In 2009, due to the financial constraints because of the Budget ceiling, the works were not included. However, the ministry plans to include the works in the 2010 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development aware that the K100 million that was appropriated for this stadium was transferred by the former hon. Minister to Maramba Stadium? Can he, please, tell this House when the money will be returned in order to rehabilitate Kaole Stadium for which it was allocated?

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, at the moment, I am not aware of that issue and there is no relationship between Kaole Stadium and Maramba Stadium.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government will consider building sports complex throughout the country in order to encourage sports in the nation.

Mr Speaker: Order! That question is unrelated to the one on the Order Paper. However, if the hon. Minister has a countrywide policy on this matter, he is free to answer.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, as much as we can do that, our Budget is limited because of the financial problems in the country. However, like we normally do, when resources are available, we will look at the stadia that require to be built and those that need to be renovated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, last year, we were promised that in readiness for the Football World Cup, which will take place in South Africa, stadia would be built in Livingstone, Lusaka and Ndola. How far has the ministry gone with regard to this?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, a stadium will be constructed on the Copperbelt. Our co-operating partners, the Chinese, will be moving on site probably by the beginning of next month. Plans are also underway to renovate the Independence Stadium. We are also still looking for partners that can help us build a stadium in Livingstone. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, we have been told that Kaole Stadium collapsed in January, 2008, and was not allocated any resources because by that time, the Budget had already been approved. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that in October, 2008, the Government on which he sits came to this House and asked for a Supplementary Expenditure of more than 10 per cent of the Budget. Did he not see that as a window through which he could have appropriated money for the construction of the collapsed Kaole Stadium wall? If he did, why did he not do that and is it a reflection of what a timid hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development he is?

Mr Speaker: Order!

 The latter part of the question was, in fact, a statement and will be ignored.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, sometimes, it is difficult to understand what the hon. Member for Kabwata is up to.

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the answer to this question is clear and straightforward. The rebuilding of the wall that collapsed at Kaole Stadium has not been included in the 2009 Budget. This will be included in the 2010 Budget and not what the hon. Member for Kabwata is saying or insinuating.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, what assurance do we have that the Kaole Stadium wall repairs will be included in the 2010 Budget since it has not been included in the 2009 Budget because of financial reasons?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development will reassure the House through that supplementary question.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure this house that the component will be included in the 2010 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, in his response to Hon. Chimbaka’s supplementary question on why K100 million meant to repair the wall fence at Kaole Stadium was diverted to Maramba Stadium in Livingstone, the hon. Minister said there was no relationship between the two. Does it not occur to him that if those funds were diverted, it is only logical that at some point, funds be sourced from elsewhere to replace that amount?  Under those circumstances, does he still maintain that there is no relationship?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I want to maintain that we are talking about Kaole Stadium and not Maramba Stadium. If Hon. Gabriel Namulambe, who was hon. Minister then, felt it necessary to divert the funds, I am sure that it was alright even though it is not my place to say …
 
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: … whether it was right or wrong.

Mr Speaker, as far I am concerned, we are talking about Kaole Stadium which has no relationship to Maramba Stadium.

I thank you, Sir.

PERCENTAGE OF EMPLOYED AND UNEMPLOYED CITIZENS

75. Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security what percentages of citizens in relation to the total population were in the following categories:

(a) formal employment;

(b) informal employment; and

(c) unemployed.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, according to the last labour force survey done by the Central Statistical Office (CSO) in 2005, the total labour force from age 15 and above stood at 4,918,788. The population in the three requested categories was as follows:

 Category  Number of people (%)  Figure

 Formal Sector  12      495,784

 Informal Sector  88    3,635,747

 Unemployed  16     787,006

Mr Speaker, I further wish to inform the august House that my ministry and the CSO carried out another labour force survey in 2008 and data collection has been finalised. The report of this survey will be ready within the first quarter of 2009.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, with formal employment at only 12 per cent and informal employment at 88 per cent, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how his ministry intends to convert the informal sector into the formal sector in this year’s Budget.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, the informal sector is very common in both developing and developed countries. Of course, we cannot deny the fact that it is more prevalent in the developing world. It is impossible to completely wipe out the informal sector. It is a feature that we have to live with.

Madam Speaker, with regard to how we intend to reduce the high percentage of citizens in the informal sector in this year’s Budget, incentives have been given to the agricultural, manufacturing and tourism industries. This will generate employment in these areas, thus, reducing the percentage of citizens in the informal sector. It is our intention to follow-up the figures as jobs are created in the course of the year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the question was about the percentages in relation to the total population. I would like to find out why the hon. Minister’s percentages do not add up to 100 per cent as they should. Could he, please, correct them.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, the figures we have are those available from the CSO. Basically, our emphasis was on the labour force as opposed to the general population in the country. We picked the figures as they were. If there is anything wrong with them, we will research and give the right specifics.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, statistics tell us that between 60 and 80 per cent of Zambians live below the poverty datum line. With the percentages that the hon. Minister has given us, can he confirm that the informal and unemployed sectors are ineffective to support the poor in Zambia? Further, how do we achieve the 5 per cent growth with such figures?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, I wish to repeat myself. This situation is prevalent in all developing countries. It is a feature that we have to battle. As you may be aware, Zambia is struggling to become a middle-income country by the year 2030. The hope is that as we struggle to get there, we will fight hard to reduce levels of unemployment. As a Government, we intend to achieve that growth rate.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF LUANO AND KAMUCHANGA BRIDGES IN NCHANGA

76. Mr Simuusa asked the Minister of Works and Supply when Luano and Kamuchanga bridges in Nchanga Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the ministry, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), will submit a report on the condition of the two bridges and the estimated cost to carry out the repairs for possible funding from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the Office of the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Chingola District Council is working out the detailed cost for the maintenance of the bridges.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, these bridges were reported as having been evaluated in a report that was submitted a year ago. Can the hon. Minister tell me why even after a year, they have not yet worked on the bridges and are still talking about estimates which were done a year ago?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member said that the report was submitted.  I hope those details were made available to us because when they are, we have no reason to sit on them. We would like them processed as quickly as possible and passed on to the relevant authorities so that the people’s problems are dealt with.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

DISCIPLINARY ACTION ON HEAD TEACHERS AND TEACHER TRANSFERS

77. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) what appropriate disciplinary action a supervising officer should take on a head teacher who misappropriates school fees; and

(b) how long a teacher should be stationed at a particular school before being eligible for a transfer

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, according to the ‘Service Commission Disciplinary Code and Procedures for Handling Offences in the Public Service’ Section 21 of the Service Commission Act, Cap. 259 of the Laws of Zambia, an officer who misappropriates public funds may either be suspended or dismissed depending on the gravity of the offence. The suspended officer may be reported to the police for the due process of the law to take place.

Mr Speaker, under normal circumstances, a teacher should serve at a school for two years before he/she is eligible for a transfer. However, for reasons such as poor health or bereavement, a teacher may be transferred to another school upon request and production of supporting documents even when he/she has not clocked two years.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister state if the disciplinary code of conduct is clear on such matters.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chilubi for that follow up question.

Mr Speaker, for the information of hon. Members in the House, there is a document entitled ‘Service Commission Disciplinary Code and Procedures for Handling Offences in the Public Service’. This document covers the Teaching Service Commission, the Police and Prisons Service Commission and any other service commission duly established under Article 123 of the Constitution of Zambia or Section 7 of the Service Commission Act.

Mr Speaker, I will lay this very important document, which affects the conduct of our Public Service, on the Table.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister explain the policy of the Ministry of Education with regard to the transfer of married teachers. At the moment, teachers who are married are posted to different schools and this is causing a lot of inconvenience.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, currently the deployment of teachers is based on preferred station of work.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we advertise the schools where teaching positions are available in the papers. The individuals who are apply for these positions make their preferences known. Whether they are married or not, the preference is theirs. Therefore, when we send them to a particular school, it is with their full consent.

Mr Kambwili: No!

Professor Lungwangwa: Our requirement is that they must be in that school for a period of two years before they can ask for a transfer. I hope the hon. Member for Roan is listening.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said teachers prefer to be posted to certain places. What about in cases where a teacher has not chosen to be posted to a school, but they are while their husband is in another school. Is it possible for the ministry to transfer that teacher to the school where their spouse is? This is because there are cases where people have been separated even when they did not choose the schools they were posted to.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that question is a hypothetical.

Mr Speaker, I have stated that our policy and practice is to advertise the available places for which teachers express their interest. Therefore, there is no question of our posting a teacher to a particular school because their preferences are taken into account when posting them.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ZAFFICO WORLD BANK LOAN

78. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Tourism Environment and Natural resources:

(a) why the Government took over the US$9 million loan which the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation Limited (ZAFFICO) obtained from the World Bank;

(b) what the original purpose for obtaining the loan at (a) above was;

(c) how the loan was utilised;

(d) what the current financial status of ZAFFICO was; and

(e) whether the operations of the company had been adversely affected by the above debt.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, the Government has not taken over the loan of US$9 million lent to ZAFFICO by the World Bank. The loan is still appearing in the corporation’s books of accounts. In fact, ZAFFICO is still part of the Government.

Mr Speaker, the original purpose of obtaining the loan was to establish 38,000 hectares of exotic plantations and …

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: … production units, improve logging and transport capacity and implement a training programme.

The loan was utilised as follows:

(a) establishment of 38,000 hectares of exotic plantation;

(b) establishment of the Kafubu Depot and Kalibu Sawmills in Kalulushi District;

(c) establishment of residential flats in Ndola;

(d) construction of a pole treatment plant at Kafubu Depot in Kalulushi;

(e) establishment of timber drying kilns at Kafubu Depot and Kalibu Sawmills;

(f) implementation of a training programme consisting of external and on-the-job training; and

(g) purchase of the logging transport and handling equipment.

Mr Speaker, notwithstanding the fact that the company has liabilities, it is viable in that it has sufficient assets in terms of standing plantation trees, which, if evaluated, could improve its asset base.

Sir, the loan has adversely affected the operations of the company. As the situation stands, the company still recognises the long-term debt in its books of accounts. This has negatively impacted its ability to obtain finances from financial institutions or attract other institutions to invest in it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda: Quality!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, in 2007, ZAFFICO made a profit of K14 billion translated into almost US$3 million. In 2008, ZAFFICO made a profit. Why has ZAFFICO management failed to clear the outstanding US$9 million?

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, the loan in question was used for specific activities, one of which was to buy equipment to process the forest products.

As a Government, we are consulting amongst ourselves to find a way of turning this debt into equity. In other words, to have this debt removed from ZAFFICO’s books of accounts so that the company is able to approach financial institutions to acquire commercial loans.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, one of the items on which the loan was utilised was the establishment of residential flats in Ndola. How many flats were established and what is the current status of the flats?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I may not be able to indicate exactly how many flats were built, but I know that the flats in question were sold to the sitting tenants. This is one of the reasons ZAFFICO cannot raise income from the flats.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, ZAFFICO …

Laughter

Mr L. J. Mulenga: … is a Government owned company. This means that it is 100 per cent owned by the Government. Why is the hon. Minister telling us that the US$9 million loan shall be translated into equity? Can you explain what you mean by that?

Laughter

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Namugala: Mr Speaker, yes, ZAFFICO is 100 per cent owned by the Government. What I meant was that this amount was borrowed for a specific purpose. I indicated that the purpose was firstly, to buy equipment to process wood and secondly, to build flats. However, the intended purpose was not realised because the purchased equipment was later sold to private enterprises and the flats were sold to the sitting tenants. Therefore, ZAFFICO did not realise the money needed to enhance its operations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether ZAFIGO will last another twenty years. Its core business is planting and replanting trees. At the moment, ZAFFICO does not replant the trees that it cuts down. When is ZAVIGO going to be instructed by the Government to replant trees where it has harvested?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to correct the hon. Member. It is not ZAFFIGO …

Laughter

Ms Namugala: It is ZAFFICO.

Laughter

Ms Namugala: ZAFFICO knows that it is important to replant trees. ZAPICO …

Laughter

Ms Namugala: … ZAFFICO has a programme to replant trees.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: There is an infection going round the Chamber.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we have been told that the US$9 million was used on investment and not operating costs. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why some of ZAFFICO’s assets were sold at less than they were bought. I would also like to know the current net value of the remaining assets and why that cannot be used to recapitalise ZAFFICO instead of selling equity to private players. If the hon. Minister cares, could she kindly come to this House with a clear analysis on how the US$9 million was utilised?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I will come to the House with information on the present net value of ZAFFICO’s assets. However, as to how the money in question was utilised, the hon. Deputy Minister has outlined the fact that the loan was used to establish 38,000 hectares of exotic plantations and to establish the Kafubu Depot and Karibi Saw Mills in Kalulushi. It was also used for the establishment of residential flats in Ndola and a pole treatment plant at Kafubu Depot in Kalulushi. It was also used to establish timber drying kilns at Kafubu Depot and Karibi Saw Mills.

Mr Speaker, this has been explained, but what we have, however, acknowledged is that the infrastructure, in this case the flats, were sold to sitting tenants after the Government so decided.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why ZAFFICO has failed to sell timber to the construction industry, and yet private vendors find it very easy to sell the very timber from ZAFFICO plantations. May I know why ZAFFICO is not selling timber in its outlets? If you go to Buseko, only unscrupulous business people …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, Hon. Mwila did indicate that for two years running, ZAFFICO has made a profit. However, there are other players in the industry and some of its plantations have been leased. Therefore, it is not true to say ZAFFICO is not doing anything because it is operating. However, the problem is it lacks the capacity to go to commercial financial institutions for a loan because it has a loan of US$9 million in its books obtained from the World Bank a number of years ago. Therefore, it is not correct to say that ZAFFICO is not doing anything because it is doing something.

I thank you, Sir.

ASSISTANCE TO YOUTHS ON THE COPPERBELT BESIDES CYDF FROM 2006 TO 2008

79. Mrs Banda asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development what assistance, other than the Constituency Youth Development Fund (CYDF), the ministry has rendered to youths in various constituencies on the Copperbelt Province from 2006 to 2008.

The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Ms Cifire): Mr Speaker, my ministry has rendered the following assistance to youths on the Copperbelt from 2006 to 2008:

(a) we promoted life and survival skills in reproductive health and HIV/AIDS through peer education using youth training facilities;

(b) we assisted youths during the Youth Week and Youth Day celebrations in all the ten districts;

(c) we trained fifty youths drawn from various communities in environmental issues in 2006 at Katembula Youth Resource Centre;

(d) we trained fifty youths in entrepreneurship skills in 2007;

(e) we trained fifty-one youths in gender and entrepreneurship  in 2008 through Katembula Youth Resource Centre;

(f) we trained youths in tourism skills and development;

(g) we facilitated an exchange programme for youths from various organisations during the period under review;

(h) we trained out-of-school youths in life skills and HIV/AIDS at Katembula Youth Resource Centre in 2007;

(i) we provided policy guidance to youth stakeholders from some various constituencies in the province and disseminated the youth policy to youth groups at meetings and workshops;

(j) we conducted a computer training course at Katembula Youth Resource Centre in order to increase young people’s access to information and communications technology (ICT); and

(k) we included youths from the Copperbelt in the two Zambia National Service (ZNS) camps namely, Kitwe and Chiwoko.

A total of 120 youths drawn from various towns and constituencies have been trained in skills such as general agriculture, bricklaying, cookery, carpentry and joinery, auto-mechanics, sheet metal fabrication, plumbing and tailoring and designing. A number of youths have now been reintegrated into their families and are living well.

Mr Speaker, the ministry, through the Office of the Vice-President, obtained a 100 hectare piece of land to resettle some youths in Lukanga North in Mpongwe District. The ministry is still working on the land and other infrastructure like houses in order to make the place habitable for the youths. So far, three boreholes have been sunk, access roads of 4.5 kilometres built, twenty-six farm plots surveyed and demarcated and an initial amount of K500 million has been allocated in this year’s Budget, through the Copperbelt Provincial Administration, towards the same initiative.

We have also established Kwilimuna Youth Resource Centre, which is located near Chief Malembeka’s area. The new youth resource centre was constructed at a cost of K300 million between 2007 to 2008 and is almost ready for commissioning. The above youth resource centre is established to provide youth skills to the rural youth in the district of Mpongwe and other districts in the province.

Mr Speaker, we have also constructed two students’ hostels with a twelve room capacity at Katembula Youth Resource Centre in Lufwanyama District to cater for students from far-flung areas. A three bed roomed house for staff was constructed and a borehole sunk.

Mr Speaker, all these initiatives are meant to benefit youths on the Copperbelt, including those in Chililabombwe District.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, from the answer given, it is like you have just been training youths, but not empowering them with funds to carry out whatever venture they would like to. What plans do you have for the youths in this year’s Budget?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that after this very good answer, the hon. Member still finds it fit to ask a supplementary question. It is important to commend the ministry where it has done very well. In my speech in this House last week, I indicated that we have plans to construct a resource and skills training centre in each district and it is up to hon. Members to liaise with my office and see how we can move forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when such a good programme is going to be replicated in other constituencies because like I said yesterday, there are a lot of youths walking the streets in my constituency.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I am not too sure which programme the hon. Member is referring to, but if it is the establishment of skills training centres, as soon as the funds are available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development whether the Government has put in place a monitoring mechanism to ensure that youths that have been trained are employed so that the efforts and resources that have been pumped into training them do not go to waste.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, yes, we have. For instance, some of those that we trained at Chiwoko and Kitwe ZNS camps have already been recruited by ZNS while others have been recruited by private institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development confirm that pursuant to the transfer of the youth empowerment funds from his ministry to the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF), his ministry is currently impotent in the provision of financial assistance to youths in Zambia?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, we are not impotent at all.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: I would like to advise the hon. Member that the creation of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) is a Government policy. However, we have the National Youth Development Council (NYDC) in place and all the youth groups that have made proposals to access money from the CEEC are advised to channel their proposals through this institution for onward transmission to the CEEC.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, introduced a very good programme, the Constituency Youth Development Fund. Those funds were only given to us in the year 2007. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what has happened to this fund. Have they completely done away with it or do we expect it to come in this year’s Budget?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan is aware that this money has all gone to the CEEC.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka East): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister has any plans to request that these funds go back to his ministry so that the youths cannot be left in the cold.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, this is a Government policy and I cannot operate outside it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any plans to empower the youth who graduate with loans so that they can have start-up capital for their businesses.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, in fact, it is our policy to assist the young boys and girls that graduate to settle down in one way or the other. I also want to advise my colleagues, the hon. Members of Parliament here, especially those running businesses, to employ some of the boys and girls that are trained in various skills’ training centres across the country. This should not be left to the Government alone.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development is not the only ministry that offers skills training for youths. The Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training, through the Technical Education Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) also offers this training. That ministry has a fund called the Entrepreneurship Development Fund which is meant to provide start-up capital for graduates from its centres. The money for the youth empowerment fund is now under the jurisdiction of the CEEF and youths should access it through the NYDC. Can the hon. Minister indicate to this House how many youth groups or individuals, after training in 2007/2008, by December, 2008, had accessed this money so that we are assured that the youths are accessing the money to set up income-generating ventures, failure to which the skills training may be in futility?

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I do not have the figure at hand, but I have seen quite a number of proposals come through the NYDC. Therefore, we need to verify with the CEEC and we will come back to this House.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

FSP SUBSIDIES PAID TO FERTILISER SUPPLIERS IN 2008/2009 FARMING SEASON

80. Mr Simuusa asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how much money was paid to the following companies per 50kg bag of Urea and D-compound fertilisers as subsidy under the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) during the 2008/2009 farming season:

(i) Omnia Fertiliser Limited; and

(ii) Nyiombo Investments Limited; and

(b) who the owners of the above fertiliser companies were.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, in the 2008/2009 farming season, the Government increased the subsidy level from 60 per cent in the 2007/2008 farming season to 75 per cent. However, the Government later fixed a price of K50,000 per 50kg bag of fertiliser across the board in order to harmonise the benefits of the subsidy. Therefore, the subsidy amount for each bag of fertiliser ranged between;

(a) K167,647.50 - K211,542.75 for Omnia Small Scale Limited; and

(b) K167,271.25 - K208,170.25, for Nyiombo Investment Limited.

Mr Speaker, Omnia Small Scale Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited are owned by private persons. The ministry deals with them as limited companies. The Patents and Companies Registration Office (PACRO) would be in a better position to reveal the owners of these fertiliser companies.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in terms of profit, roughly K150,000 per bag was given to these companies. If you were to calculate the amount for over 200,000, bags, you would be talking about billions. I would like the hon. Minister to tell this House, as he has confirmed that these are private companies, why we are paying billions of taxpayers’ money as profits to these companies when cheaper options can be pursued by the Government.  Why are we wasting taxpayers’ money?

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, the reason for allowing the private sector to participate in the FSP was based on the fact that the Government has its role in regulation and control via the Seed Control and Certification Institute. Therefore, the private sector was better suited to undertake this assignment.

Mr Speaker, having decided to engage the private sector, these two companies won the tenders. This enabled us buy time in order to recapitalise Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) so that it resumes the production of D-compound. This is why this was done in the last season.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister kindly inform this House how much the Government owed Omnia Small Scale Fertiliser Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited as at the end of January for the subsidised fertiliser that they delivered countrywide?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I do not have those figures because payment is dependent upon the receipting of what has been processed in our various districts.

I thank you, Sir.

FAILURE TO ALLOW VODACOM TO OPERATE IN ZAMBIA

81. Mr Chimbaka asked the Minister of Communications and Transport why Vodacom, a mobile communications service provider, had not been allowed to operate in Zambia.

The Deputy of Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, in 2001, the Communications Authority of Zambia (CAZ) invited bids for a new mobile cellular licence. Only one bid was received from the Vodacom Zambia Consortium comprising Vodacom International Holdings (Pty Ltd) of South Africa and Unitel Communications Zambia Limited. However, during the negotiations, the Vodacom Zambia Consortium, which initially applied for a spectrum in the 1800 MHZ frequency band which was available, changed and requested for the primary GSM 900 whose frequency was not adequate.

 After protracted discussions, Vodacom felt that the spectrum which was proposed for allocation by CAZ would not suffice for its operations under the consortium and, therefore, decided to withdraw from the licensing process. It is important to note that the proposed spectrum allocation which CAZ made was in line with what is used in other countries, including South Africa, to sufficiently enable mobile phone operations.

In summary, Vodacom made a business decision to withdraw from the bidding process for mobile operations in Zambia. Therefore, no one prevented them from operating in Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, was the spectrum to be given to Vodacom going to affect the international gateway in any way?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, Vodacom applied for a mobile cellular licence. This had nothing to do with the international gateway.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter
RESTORATION OF SOIL FERTILITY IN CHILUBI

82. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources whether the Government had any plans to restore soil fertility in the following wards in Chilubi Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, how:

(a) Kashitu;

(b) Kambashi;

(c) Kapoka;

(d) Kawena;

(e) Katamba;

(f) Kancindi;

(g) Chinkundu;

(h) Mpansha;

(i) Mubemba; and

(j) Luangwa.

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to restore soil fertility per se in the ten listed wards in Chilubi Parliamentary Constituency. However, my ministry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, is encouraging small-scale farmers to practice organic farming and agro-forestry. Under organic farming, small-scale farmers are encouraged to use composite and animal manure while under agro-forestry, they are encouraged to intercrop agricultural crops with nitrogen fixing trees.

Laughter

Mr Mwangala: This practice ensures sustainable higher yields of agricultural crops while at the same time improving soil fertility for sound ecological functional systems.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon: Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the residents in the wards referred to in the question largely depend on cassava growing because the majority of them cannot afford to buy fertiliser. Furthermore, our people out there …

Mr Speaker: Order! You are debating. What is the question?

Mr Chisala: As a matter of urgency, is the hon. Minister not considering sending experts to these wards to sensitise the people about the importance of crop rotation?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, the Government has extension officers who, if consulted, will assist the community ensure that the soil fertility levels are improved.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I wonder if the hon. Minister could enlighten us on whether the traditional agro-forestry practice, well-adapted to the Northern Province, known as the Chitemene System is still illegal.  If it is not, is her ministry actively promoting it because it is the original organic farming in this part of the world?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Chitemene System is still being practised, especially in Northern Province. As a ministry, we have encouraged the district forestry officers to ensure that they control the way people practise shifting cultivation. We have also put in place plans to ensure that by the end of this year, we find out the extent to which the Chitemene System contributes to deforestation and soil degradation.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, environmental degradation, which includes soil infertility, is a concern of the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources. Could the hon. Minister inform this House how effective her ministry has been in co-ordinating with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to ensure that the soil fertility in these areas is improved.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minster explained that the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources is working closely with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to ensure sustainable management of our soils and vegetation cover.

The House may wish to know that the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is encouraging organic farming among small-scale farmers. Therefore, there is collaboration between the ministries of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and Agriculture and Co-operatives.

 I thank you, Sir.

TAXES COLLECTED FROM COMPANIES MINING MANGANESE IN LUAPULA FROM 2006 TO 2008

82. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much revenue the Government collected in the form of taxes from the companies mining manganese in Luapula Province from 2006 to 2008; and

(b) whether the mining companies at (a) above had paid the windfall tax which the Government introduced in 2008.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, a total of K55,877, 515.00 was collected in taxes from the companies mining manganese in Luapula Province from 2006 to 2008.

Mr Speaker, no windfall tax was collected from companies mining manganese in Luapula Province as manganese mining is not subject to windfall tax.

I thank you, Sir.

____________

MOTION

BUDGET 2009

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, during my debate yesterday, I touched on a number of areas such as education, agriculture, health, road infrastructure and manufacturing. In manufacturing, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has decided to throw the local manufacturers and industries to the wind. He has brought what I regard as a vision, as indicated in his Budget Speech, that Zambia shall concentrate on the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs) in as far as manufacturing is concerned.

Sir, I would like the hon. Minister to enlighten us on whether Zambians are going to be allowed to operate from these MFEZ. If not, how do they intend to protect the small-scale and medium entrepreneurs in the country?

Mr Speaker, the House may be aware that the MFEZ was tried in Jamaica and failed. Instead it brought confusion which affected their industries and polluted the country. We would, therefore, like him to inform this House whether the Government made enough consultations to ensure that the MFEZs shall not complicate the manufacturing and general industry in the country. Further, documents regarding the MFEZs were not presented to this House to enlighten us on what they stand for.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to comment on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). During the campaign, the Republican President, Mr Rupiah Banda, was heard saying that, once elected, CDF would be increased to K1 billion.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Why is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning trying to label the President as a person who cannot keep his word?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I want to request the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to move an amendment on the Floor of this House to increase CDF from the current K400 million to K1 billion. Should that fail, we need to work flat out, as hon. Members of Parliament, to see which vote in the Yellow Book we can shift money from in order to increase the CDF.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, currently, CDF is the only money that we can utilise in our constituencies, especially since the Government has decided to take all the revenue it collects to the rural areas where its votes are. We along the line of rail have to depend on CDF. For this reason, we shall put pressure and make sure that this Budget does not go through until the hon. Minister comes with an amendment to increase CDF.

With those few words, Sir, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is so much talking in the corner on my left. If hon. Members want to consult loudly, there are many exits from the House that you can use to go out and discuss and then come back when you have finished.

The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on his appointment. He is the second Musokotwane to head this ministry.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: The Musokotwanes have made history in this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Hon. Mabenga said yesterday that Hon. Dr Musokotwane comes from Seshekane Village in Liuwa Constituency. Sir, Mr Obama is the President of the United States of America, but his roots are in Kenya. Dr Musokotwane’s parents settled in Liuwa, which is allowed under the one Zambia one Nation practice, but that does not mean that he has forgotten his roots.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in paragraph 5 of the hon. Minister’s speech, he says he wants to see the citizens in all corners of the country wake up each morning well-nourished, in decent housing and with access to clean water and sanitation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has a huge task because these things have not yet started to happen in Katombola.

Mr Speaker, there are ten months before December, this year, and I look forward to my people waking up well-nourished. This is the challenge that the hon. Minister has. I hope he will start with Katombola Constituency.

Currently, the people of Katombola have no food despite the fact that they produced enough food during the 2007/2008 farming season, which could have kept the constituency hunger free. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) took their maize to Kalomo. Some of the maize they tried to keep in Livingstone was exported to Zimbabwe, and yet when they cry that they are hungry, nobody wants to listen to them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I urge the Office of the Vice-President to do something about this.

Sir, in February last year, then Vice-President, Rupiah Banda, went to my constituency after I wrote him a letter. He saw the situation for himself and promised the people of Katombola food in two weeks. That was February, 2008. We are now in February, 2009, and the two weeks has not elapsed because up to now, the people of Katombola have not received the food.

Mr Kambwili: Shame!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we are always told that we should diversify and grow cassava. We have tried this, but the cassava is not growing as we would like it to. It is not growing no matter how hard we try. What do we do? The land has termites and when cassava is planted, it is eaten before it even grows. We would like to grow cassava, but what do we do if it is not workable in the Southern Province?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Should we force people to grow cassava or consider growing something else that might benefit the people of Southern Province?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: If maize or cassava has failed, we should look at what else we can do. The cassava programme has failed in the Southern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talks about livestock in paragraph 62 of his speech.

Sir, other countries have succeeded in the livestock industry and so can Zambia, especially that the country already has favourable natural conditions. To this effect, he has allocated K70.7 billion to livestock development. I have no idea where the hon. Minister will start from. There are a lot of things that should be done before livestock diseases are eradicated. To start with, we have no dip tanks. I do not know how we are going to eradicate livestock diseases without dip tanks. We also do not have dams. Animals need water. How will the hon. Minister handle this?

Mr Speaker, when Botswana embarked on livestock restocking, all the animals were destroyed. For about three years, the farmers had no animals. The Government used those three years to ensure that when they restocked, the animals were not affected again.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we are talking of livestock restocking, and yet we have sick animals and want to introduce new animals on the same grazing grounds as the sick ones. I am afraid the programme is not going to succeed unless the Government plans it properly. It will not work to mix the new animals with the old ones.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in Botswana, when they destroyed ten animals at a farm, the Government gave ten animals back to the farmer. In the Zambian restocking programme, one animal is given to three or five villages. When are we going to restock?

Hon. UPND Member: One animal for the whole of the Southern Province.

Mrs Musokotwane: We give one animal to the whole of the Southern Province for restocking.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives should send experts to Botswana to learn how that country carried out its restocking programme. The restocking programme worked in Botswana, but is failing in Zambia. Instead of sending experts to Malawi to look at things that we are already doing, if not better than Malawi, we should send them to Botswana. We need to restock, particularly in the Southern Province. We no longer have animals there.

Hon. Member: Yah! You should be the leader of the delegation.

Mrs Musokotwane: The hon. Minister should be the leader of the delegation.

Mr Speaker, we heard from the answer that was given by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development that the Southern Province only has two big dams in Mazabuka and Kalomo respectively. Both of those are private dams.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we want public dams where people can take their animals to drink and connect their irrigation equipment.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: We cannot do that in private dams. The whole province only has two big dams which are private. We need at least one big dam per ward. That way, we would have achieved what we wish to achieve.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, fuel in the Southern Province is very expensive. Is it possible for the Government to make arrangements with Botswana and Zimbabwe so that we can get our fuel from there? After all, the Eastern Province gets electricity from Malawi. Why can we not get fuel from Botswana and Zimbabwe? If it is possible, the Government should look into this issue. Fuel is so expensive that we cannot even engage in irrigation.

Mr Speaker, I was very happy when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing was debating. He said, in his speech, that he was going to reinforce the boards in markets and bus stations. This is a welcome move. I am sure we are going to pass the Bill when it comes before the House. However, I read in a newspaper that the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) cadres were demonstrating at the airport because they wanted the President to allow them to go into markets. We are not going to allow any political party in the markets …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: … or bus stations. Those are public places where everybody in this country should go freely without being harassed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane:  What makes them think that all the women at Soweto Market are MMD? No, Sir. We will wait for that Bill.

Mr Speaker, regarding CDF, I also say what the others have said, …

Hon. Opposition Members: K1 billion!

Mrs Musokotwane: … that we want K1 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as you have already heard from other hon. Members of Parliament, that is the money that builds bridges, extends hospitals and constructs roads.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: The other day, I heard Hon. Vincent Mwale say that he used CDF to buy drums of diesel to work on the roads in his constituency. That is why we want CDF to be increased to K1 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: The Ministry of Local Government and Housing monitors this money very well. Apart from delaying in reporting to the ministry, no constituency has misused the money. This is the money which goes to the grassroots or communities.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: That is why we want it.

Mr Speaker, even your Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs takes councils to task over this money. I want to commend the Ministry of Local Government and Housing because it makes us proud. We can even stand here and demand for K1 billion because we know that it is going to be used properly.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Sir, the hon. Minister also talked about decentralisation. Why are we always talking about decentralisation? Why do we want to decentralise? We want to decentralise because local authorities are accountable to the people. It would be very easy for the community to ask the councillor or council secretary why a particular road has not been done. However, this is difficult now because when the council secretary is asked, he will say that the letter has been sent to the ministry and they are waiting for a response. We want to decentralise so that decisions can be made at local level and the people responsible made accountable.

Mr Speaker, we also want to narrow the gap between the people and the leadership. At the moment, the community is down there while the leadership is up here in Lusaka.

Mr Mwiimbu: In a tree!

Mrs Musokotwane: We want to narrow the gap. Let the leadership get closer to the people through the local authorities. At the moment, the civil servants in our districts are not answerable to us. They are answerable to the people in Lusaka. This makes it difficult for us to monitor them. They do not even care about what they do. That is why most civil servants in our districts write reports from their offices. They do not even have transport to go and see what is happening in the rural areas. That is why they write reports which are disputed in this House and when an hon. Minister is taken to task, he only says that these are the figures I was given by my officers.

Therefore, we want the civil servants at district level to be responsible and accountable to the people. We want these men and women to tour the districts and see what is happening on the ground. This will make them work hard to improve their districts. However, because decisions are made in Lusaka, they have all sorts of excuses to run away from their responsibilities. As a result, we cannot get hold of them.

Mr Speaker, there are two types of ministers in this House. There are those that recognise the Opposition as partners and …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: … those who think that the Opposition has nothing to do with them.

Mr Speaker, we are all working for the Zambians in this House. No-one is above the other. They should realise that, as hon. Opposition Members of Parliament, we have the right and power to go to the President and demand for their removal from Cabinet. They can be fired. They should not think that they are indispensable. Let us work together in harmony. When we, on this side of the House, talk, it is because we want development. We expect hon. Ministers to tell us what plans they have to help the Zambians improve their lives. We do not expect them to be arrogant. They should not tell us that we have no power, or capacity to demand for anything.

Interruptions

Mrs Musokotwane: We gave them the capacity and they should remember that as Members of the Opposition, Zambians or ordinary citizens, we have the right and power to tell the President to fire them in case they think that once the President appoints them, they will be there forever. They cannot!

Mr Mwiimbu: Never!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech.

First and foremost, I would like to earnestly appeal to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament in this House to be careful with the pronouncements they make on the Floor of this House. Last week, one hon. Member of Parliament, an hon. Deputy Minister for that matter, made a statement that is tantamount to encouraging tribal conflict. This hon. Deputy Minister stated that the presidency of this country must rotate. That is a very careless statement.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We are Zambians and our identity is Zambian. We should not be identified by the provinces we come from. If Zambia has to develop, we should all treat ourselves as Zambians.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We know what happened in Kenya because of regionalism and tribalism. Therefore, as leaders, we must desist, by all means, from making careless statements.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: When I read paragraph 5 of the Budget Speech, I noticed that I share the same vision as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I saw your vision, hon. Minister, and believed that it was a vision from a person who might have lived in Europe or the United States of America (USA).

Ms Cifire: Cawama ico, iwe!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the vision is very good, but I want to tell the hon. Minister that he has a vision in the wrong camp.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: This vision of wanting Zambians to be well-nourished and have paved roads cannot be attained with the kind of Government in place. Why do I say so?

Mr V. Mwale: Question!

Mr Kambwili: First and foremost, the behaviour and attitude of civil servants leaves much to be desired. These people are supposed to work eight hours a day, but they put in less than five hours. Most officers who report for work just hang their jackets on their chairs and leave the office empty the whole day. Permanent Secretaries and supervisors are there, but they cannot do anything. How do you expect to meet this vision, hon. Minister?

Sir, when we say cadres should not be appointed to positions of authority in the Civil Service, we mean just that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I will give you an example. How do you expect to meet your vision, hon. Minister, when two weeks ago one of the newly appointed permanent secretaries, who is also a political cadre, left his office to attend a meeting of provincial chairmen for the MMD to decide whether Rupiah Banda must continue as MMD President.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: That is wasting productive time because when he is supposed to be performing Civil Service functions, he goes to attend to politics. Nobody even condemned him or spoke against it.

Mr Lubinda: Instead, he was given a pat on the back.

Mr Kambwili: We want to remind the cadres who have been appointed to the Civil Service that their job is to work in the Civil Service and not to be preoccupied with political ambitions.
Mr Lubinda: Very good!

Mr Kambwili: If they want to become politicians, they should join politics. If they want to be civil servants, they must concentrate on the Civil Service. In fact, it is this Government that has said that civil servants must not indulge in politics.

Mr Lubinda: Tetamashimba!

Mr Kambwili: What kind of a Government are you? One day you say civil servants must not indulge in politics and the next day, you appoint civil servants and allow them to attend political functions. That is a shame! You must realise that you are being inconsistent.

Mrs Phiri: They are shameless!

Mr Kambwili: My appeal is that this civil servant should be disciplined for attending a political meeting during working hours.

Mr Speaker, with regard to CDF, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I would like to say that other hon. Members of Parliament have been a little kind in their words. I am telling you that we are not going to pass the Budget if you do not increase CDF.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We are going to walk out if you do not increase CDF. You may not know what CDF does because you do not have a constitution …

Hon. Government Members: Constituency!

Mr Kambwili: … constituency. Therefore, it is not your fault. I want to tell the hon. Minister that this is the money that goes directly to benefit the ordinary people on the ground. It is extremely difficult to get development from Central Government without a proper decentralisation policy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, therefore, at the moment, what the people are enjoying is CDF. You should take this as official warning and notification.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I am against the provision of K30 billion to the MFEZ. The MFEZ is going to benefit the Chinese who have more money than us. Why should we take taxpayers’ money to the MFEZ? Why should we build roads for the Chinese? If, indeed, they are investors worth their salt, let them come and build their own roads at the MFEZ, instead of taking K30 billion from taxpayers’ money to build roads to benefit the Chinese. They should come as investors and not infesters.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: This money should be taken to CDF and not MFEZ. This MFEZ is of very little benefit to the Zambians. We know that our benefit as Zambians will be job creation, but how much do the Chinese pay? You all know that the people who go underground at Chambishi Mine are paid as little as K500,000 per month. How much are they going to pay a person who makes biscuits? Therefore, this K30 billion must be removed from MFEZ and taken to CDF so that our people can benefit. 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) tariffs, you people think that Zambians are stupid.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: We support ZESCO through taxpayers’ money. Last year, you allocated K98 billion to ZESCO. This year, you have allocated ZESCO K16 billion for capacity building. This money comes from the ordinary Zambians through taxes. You again come to the ordinary Zambians and say you are going to increase the tariffs for the machinery that you upgraded. Shame! You are stealing from the Zambians. Let …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Withdraw the word, “stealing”.

Mr Kambwili: You are defrauding the Zambians.

Mr Speaker: Order! Stealing and defrauding are synonyms. Withdraw that word as well.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word. You are obtaining money from Zambians through tricks, …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: … which is very bad. If you want us to support ZESCO by paying high tariffs, stop taking the taxpayers’ money to support the infrastructure at ZESCO. Let ZESCO raise its own money. We shall meet the idea of raising ZESCO tariffs with maximum resistance on behalf of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mining

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I am disappointed that Maxwell Mwale is not here to listen.

Hon. Members: Honourable!

Mr Kambwili: Hon. Maxwell Mwale is not in the House. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, I want to tell you that…

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development is approaching the Luanshya Copper Mines (LCM) issue with kids’ gloves. ZCCM Investments Holdings (ZCCM-IH) has no money. They failed to run Maamba Collieries. I said in the newspaper that the President has no capacity or is not bold enough to do what the late President Mwanawasa did when Anglo American pulled out of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). The President panicked and the following morning announced at the airport that ZCCM-IH would take over the operations of LCM.

Sir, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services also announced that ZCCM-IH is taking over the operations of LCM. When we went to find out from ZCCM-IH, they said that they did not have the capacity to do so and that the Government had not approached them. Why are you cheating the people of Zambia?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Why are you misleading the people of Zambia?

Mr Lubinda: Ba malukula.

Mr Speaker: Order! Withdraw the word, ‘cheating’.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word. Why are you misleading the people of Luanshya …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: … that ZCCM-IH will take over LCM? You should tell people the truth. That is why you have problems with people. You should not issue statements under duress. Make statements that will stand the test of time. It is now two weeks since the President made the announcement, but ZCCM-IH is not in Luanshya. Yesterday, I had a meeting with the Chief Operations Officer of LCM. He said that as far as they are concerned, they have the rights to LCM and they are not going to relinquish them to ZCCM-IH. Whoever is going to take over the mine must negotiate with LCM. Why should you go on air and cheat the people?

Mr Speaker: Order! Yet again, the word ‘cheat’ must be withdrawn.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I apologise and withdraw the word. You mislead the people. You know that ZCCM-IH has no capacity to operate the mine. I have tried by all means to help you. You are the same people who say we do not help you. However, when we help you, you do not follow what we tell you. I wrote a letter to the President advising him on the way to proceed on the issue of LCM. The man has not even bothered to respond or acknowledge receipt of my letter.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! What do you mean by, “the man”?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: … has not even made an effort to respond or acknowledge receipt of the letter, and yet when you come to this House, you accuse the Opposition of not helping you run the affairs of the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, two days ago, another investor by the name of …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. {mospagebreak}

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that this Government has always complained that we do not advise them. We do advise them, but the problem is that they do not take our advice into consideration. They think that when advice comes from the Opposition, then it is useless.  We are stakeholders in the development of this country and unless we start treating each other as such, this country is not going to go anywhere. There is nobody under the sun who has the monopoly of wisdom. Most of us here worked in the mines and understand the mining industry better than some of the people seated on your right hand side because experience is the best teacher. On this side of the House, we have trade unionists and human resource practitioners from the mining industry. Indeed, we have a vast experience and this Government can do well to learn from us regarding the mining industry.

Mr Speaker, I brought up the issue of Puku Minerals when I debated during the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Speech.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: This Government has not even bothered to engage Puku Minerals just because the person who went to contact them is an hon. Opposition Member of Parliament. Fine!

Sir, last week, another investor Madini Resources from Canada came to look for me in Luanshya. I do not know why, …

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: … but probably because I have been so pragmatic in trying to make sure that the issue of LCM is resolved. When they came, I took them to visit the mine and they were impressed with it. They even told the current management that the mine did not deserve to be closed because they had a difficult mine in Cuba which they were still running and which had more employees than LCM. That mine has similar conditions to the Baluba Mine. These people said that they seriously want to invest in the mine. I took the initiative of contacting the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. I called him from here and we went and sat outside. To my surprise, when I was explaining to him about these investors, he looked at me as if I was a rotten person.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: He never even bothered …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Hon. Members must be very careful in they way they disclose to the public certain matters discussed out there with other members of the House, particularly the Executive. Secondly, it is not right to refer to someone looking at you as if you were a rotten person. You are not rotten. Please, withdraw that statement.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement.

Mr Speaker, all I was saying is that when we give ideas to the Government, they must be able to accommodate them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, when I did not get a response from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, I engaged the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who yesterday got a business card from me and promised to engage these people to find the way forward and see whether they could invest. That is the attitude we want.

Mr Speaker, the problem is that …

Hon. Member interrupted.

Mr Kambwili: You are now confusing me.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for taking the initiative to engage these people so that we can find a lasting solution to the issue of Luanshya Mine.

Mr Speaker, it will be suicidal for us to remove the windfall tax.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I read in the newspaper yesterday that by the end of this year, the copper prices are expected to rise to US$4,200 pounds per tonne. The indicators show that the falling of copper prices was a temporary thing, which is part of mining. When we worked in the mines, copper prices fluctuated depending on the demand. Therefore, it is not in the best interest of the country to remove the windfall tax because the prices have gone down. If the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning wishes, he can introduce the new measures, but they have to move side by side with the windfall tax.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We will be in a very awkward situation. Sooner rather than later, we will come to this House to reintroduce windfall tax. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: In any case, windfall tax has no effect on the present situation in the mining industry. This is because we cannot claim it where the price of copper does not go above the price that triggers the tax. We will apply it as and when it is necessary and it will not be in the best interest of the country to remove it. My earnest appeal to the hon. Minister is to leave windfall tax alone. After all, you have failed to tell us how you have been collecting this tax. You cannot even explain to this House how you are going to get the windfall tax that some mining companies have not yet paid.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that it was difficult to collect windfall tax from LCM because it has problems. We are not talking about this year’s windfall tax, but last year’s. Last year, LCM made abnormal profits and externalised the money. We want you to do everything possible, even if it means taking this company to court, to collect that windfall tax on behalf of the people of Zambia. After all, the people of Zambia gave you the mandate to do things in their best interest.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We will not waste our time enacting laws that will be removed one year later for no apparent reason. We want to enact laws that will stand the test of time. If the copper mining industry is shutting down, hon. Minister, you have the right to remove the windfall tax. However, as long as the industry exists, windfall tax must stay.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, this Government is asking ZCCM-IH, which is just an investment company, to run LCM. Apart from the fact that they do not have financial muscle, they do not have the capacity to run that mine. They failed to run Maamba Collieries. They were quick to bring in an equity partner who also intends to bring in his own management. Where are you going to get qualified staff to run LCM? We have very few mining engineers, metallurgists and geologists in Zambia. The people in this mine are busy relocating to Lumwana Mine. It was reported today that over seventy people that were retrenched from LCM and other mines had gone to find jobs in Lumwana. It is because you are delaying to bail out this mine that the professionals are leaving Luanshya. By the time you reopen that mine, there will be no professional to run it. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to quickly reopen LCM.

Let me inform you, hon. Minister, that the K27.6 billion that you paid Luanshya miners in terminal benefits has not reached them. The money has gone to service their loans at the banks. Miners had loans which they would have serviced in six or seven years. The banks grabbed all the money. Right now, the miners have no jobs and no income even to go into agriculture. Hon. Minister, please, have mercy on the people of Luanshya. Let us move very fast in finding a lasting solution for their benefit.

Mr Speaker, this is the only Government on earth which thinks that agriculture is cultivating maize.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: When you talk about agriculture, all you ever talk about is the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) buying maize.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Who told you that agriculture is maize?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Maize is only a component of agriculture. Promote other crops such as cassava, sorghum and finger millet. There are people who grow rice, but the FRA does not buy their produce. How do you expect to improve agriculture like that? Can you, please, move away from the mentality that only the growing of maize is agriculture and diversify? Cultivate and buy other crops.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful that they have introduced a Ministry of Livestock and Veterinary Services. Maybe, it will help us stop thinking about maize all the time and think of other areas in the agricultural sector. Please, listen to our advice. When we criticise you, it is not because we are your enemies. All we want is for you to do the right thing for the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Treat us as such and we will move forward to develop mother Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to join my friends who have paid tribute to this level-headed Budget.

Mr Speaker, my debate today is not about politics alone. It is a debate based on the destiny and future of this country.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, Zambians, if given good guidance and leadership, can put aside their suffering and opt to pursue their greatness. They can put aside their problems in order to think about how they can excel.

Mr Speaker, politics are about influence and power. You have power because you are an hon. Member of Parliament who researches well and bases their contribution on researched information. You can pick up a telephone and speak to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because you have that power. You can speak to the President because you have that power. Because you are credible, capable and dependable, you can pick up the phone and ask to speak to the Vice-President and he may ask that you call him back later. You can do all this because you have influence and power.

Mr Speaker, Zambians do not send hon. Members of Parliament to this House to bicker or nitpick. If Zambians were poor, there would be no chance for them to talk about democracy. Democracy has no meaning to a starving person. Poverty can hinder the blossoming of democracy. We are sent here as hon. Members of Parliament to speak for our people. What we should do, particularly those of us from the Southern Province, is target productive areas. I know Southern Province in total.

For instance, in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency, the most productive crop production area is Mapangaya. In Mazabuka Central Constituency, they are Mbiya, Kalambabakali, Siamwaba and Munenga Central. That is where most of the food is grown.

Mr Speaker, in Magoye, it is Chivuna, Chitongo and Ngwezi settlements which I happened to co-found in 1966. That is where food is grown in Mazabuka. In Moomba, it is in Mbiya, Kalama and Nkonkola and so on.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, in Monze Central, most of the food is grown in Monze Central, itself, Chikuni, and Monze West. Other areas are Huhwa and Kanundwa. In Pemba, most of the food is grown in Bobo and Kanchomba.

If you move into Choma, there is Nakempa and Siasikabole. When you go to Katombola Parliamentary Constituency, Simango, where that lady, Hon. Musokotwane, comes from, is the most productive area.

 Therefore, I know Southern Province from Swangwemu to Katapazi. I know Southern Province from Moomba up to Kaingu in Namwala. Therefore, we should target these areas. Where are the dip tanks that were used in the colonial era?

Mr Lubinda: Where are they?

Mr Munkombwe: What has happened to them? Can we research so that we do not join the people who are used to queuing for food and fighting and protesting for mealie-meal. Let us make them irrelevant.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, we should make them irrelevant by providing researched and targeted areas so that we can come to the Government and say, “In my constituency, there are such a number of dip tanks that need to be repaired, such a number of agricultural camps that need attention or such a number of veterinary camps that need repair.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: You can say that to the Government.

Sir, we now have a ministry devoted to livestock development. I know that most of the cattle in Southern Province comes from Mbeza and Maala in Namwala Parliamentary Constituency. When it comes to growing maize, I know that the Muchila area is dominant. The young hon. Member for Namwala comes from one of the progressive families. I am not alien to that area. I know the Chivunga and Maambo families as people who are progressive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Talk about the Budget.

Mr Munkombwe: Yes, I am talking about the Budget …

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: … in relation to the productive capacity of the people of Southern Province. This province has the potential to develop and produce. The question is: how can that production capacity be harnessed? That is the question. That is why we need researched information from hon. Members of Parliament. Please, do not use your tongue to kill yourself. We want a situation where when you speak to somebody, even over the phone, you are listened to because you are speaking in a pleasant manner. If you are so scary, even on the phone, nobody will listen to you. This is because nobody can listen to senselessness.
Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, people only listen to what is attractive. As I said, politics is influence. I was influential with Nkumbula, most influential with Dr Kenneth David Kaunda, influential with Dr Fredrick Chiluba, most influential with the late Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa and I am now influential with President Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, that is how I was created and that is how I am. Do not keep quiet because you were not brought here to keep quiet.  You were also not brought here to shout every time. You should be a beauty to listen to.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, even as a Back Bencher, people should be able to listen to you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, when Hon. David Matongo or Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, although he puts a lot of hot air, speak, they speak sense.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: That is how people must debate. We are not tying you to a system of debate. I have no authority, whatsoever, to direct hon. Members of Parliament on how they should work, but I can give parental guidance.

Mr Lubinda: Even him!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, my parental guidance is that an hon. Member of Parliament should be the first in his constituency to determine the way development should be achieved in his constituency. The district commissioner (DC), chiefs and village headmen in that particular district must work together. If you do not get on well with the DC, come to us and describe how relevant that particular DC is in relation to the productive capacity of your constituency ...

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: … because you are key. We cannot develop without you. You are elected hon. Members of this House. We cannot do without councillors, but we should guide them in a manner that does not strangle your people.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, I have said before and I want to say it again, if you want development, pick up the phone and make an appointment with any hon. Minister. Tell him/her that you are the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala, Choma, Moomba or whichever constituency you are from. Tell that hon. Minister what you want. Itemise the issues because hon. Ministers will not listen to cheap theories, no! They want to listen to facts. Therefore, you should produce these facts. In any case, if you have problems influencing a particular minister on an issue, bring it to me and I will spice it up politically for you because in development we can meet. If we do not want to punish our people, we should work together. You may not like me, but when it comes to issues of development, you should like me and use me in totality. I am no longer in competition with any of you. I do not want to stand as a Parliamentarian anymore, but I will guide. That is my role.

Mr Speaker, there are some people who are born lucky. You cannot do anything about it unless you want to kill them.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: There is nothing you can do.

Fifty-five or fifty- eight years ago, I came from school with Joshua Nkhomo and Ndabanigi Sithole to elect Kaunda and Nkumbula in 1953 in Shamulyamwamba in Monze. I was a small but brilliant boy.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Since that time, I have been associated with politics.

When I saw the colour bar that was exhibited after I finished school, I was not happy because I abhorred racism. That abhorrence remains in my life. I hate being employed by anyone. If politics were employment, I would not have joined it.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: I am my own maker. I stamped trees and herded cattle. Today, I am impoverished by my participation in politics. There is no money in politics unless for thieves and cheats.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Those are the people who make money. Politics is about serving the people. That is what it is.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Those that took over from me in Choma can point at things that I really worked for because I was influential. My advice to you is that do not kill yourself by mimicking people whose attitude is to protest and complain every time. Be realistic.

For those of you from Southern Province, at the moment, I am your Minister.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Use me.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: I will come to your home on condition that when I come, you do not talk about Rupiah Banda. You should also not talk to me about joining your party because those two are not related. We only meet during campaigns. Whatever we say about each other during election campaigns should not cloud our minds. Whatever I said about you and whatever I heard you say about me during the campaigns is over. Chakamana ico. Let us ignore it.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, we should learn to work together in order to promote development.

At the moment, most of the maize crop in Southern Province is produced in Kalomo and Dundumwezi parliamentary constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Anybody who knows Southern Province will agree with me.

Mr Speaker, the people of Dundumwezi are suffering from what I call “Fuso and Canter mania”.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: They will sell their entire crop and go to South Africa to buy a Canter and then begin to suffer. That is wrong.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Stop them from having the “Fuso and Canter mania” syndrome.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Stop them! They will sell all the food.

Mr Speaker, it is embarrassing to hear that some people in Mabombo are dying of hunger. That is dangerous. They grow the crop and then sell it. There are some crafty people buying this crop from others by lending them money or using people with money. Some of them are teachers. This is absolutely wrong.

On the FSP, the Government has said that even civil servants must benefit. I do not agree with that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: This is because civil servants can afford to buy inputs, therefore, I do not agree with that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: However, I do not have to say what I do not agree with because I am part of the Executive.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: That is the closest I can go. Otherwise, can we be parental, logical and work together, politics apart, and prove that …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Iwe Kambwili ikala!

Mr Munkombwe: … we can succeed if we work together

Mr Speaker, it is my hope that the hon. Members of Parliament for Southern Province and other politicians will use me now more than ever before. I cannot refuse if you, the hon. Member for Namwala, young man and the son of my friend says, “Can you join me for two days …

Laughter
Mr Munkombwe: … to go and address the people?” I am telling him how effective we are. Because you are receptive, there is no way I can refuse. I will go with David Matongo, Request Muntanga, Mrs Musokotwane …

Mr Kambwili: And Kambwili!

Mr Munkombwe: I do not want you.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, it is my hope that we will cultivate a new culture of working together and the Opposition will make a contribution to the development of this country. I heard somebody say that we refuse to listen when they tell us something. Are you saying that you want us to agree with what you say even when you sound senseless?

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: As much as I cannot direct you to behave in a certain way, you can also not direct us on whom we should listen to.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: The British say, “One good turn deserves another.” The notion if a person slaps you on the right cheek, give him/her the left cheek, went with Jesus.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: He went away. That is not possible because we are human beings like any one of you. So, please, do what is required. One good turn deserves another.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Those who listen to wisdom will yet be wiser.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, firstly, I want to pay tribute to a great freedom fighter, Hon. Munkombwe. As you said, it is humbling to listen to him. I hope that he will not only be available to the people of Southern Province, but also to the rest of the country, especially the young people who have to learn from his wisdom, resilience and capacity to survive. Nine lives is too short for him. It is more than nine lives.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Sir, I also want to pay tribute to my good friend and colleague, Hon. Dr Musokotwane; a brilliant mind. I know that he was ushered into the political arena without having to have been beaten up in any campaign, but he comes with a mind that is very keen, intelligent and focussed.

Mr Speaker, it is a tradition in this House that former ministers of finance do not attack each other.

Hon. PF Member: So, do not!

Dr Kalumba: It is a well established convention. We do not speak against each other. This is particularly so because in that office, there are a lot of things we come to know and have to keep to ourselves and sometimes have to die with. Therefore, it is often a tradition that an incumbent minister should not be criticised by their predecessors. I think that has been a very common convention. If we have to do so, we usually have a one-on-one discussion somewhere in the office where we advise each other.

Major Chizhyuka: It is true! Go on.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, as I welcome this Budget that Hon. Dr Musokotwane has prepared, I want to stress that he has come at a time which, perhaps, no other Minister of Finance in the last three or four generations has experienced. He has come at a time of crisis in the world and in our Zambian economy; a crisis that can be defined as chaotic. Any student of economics will tell you that it is an outcome usually of what we may call a butterfly effect. One little ripple from the USA caused by mortgages goes around the whole world and turns our aspirations and dreams into ashes. Who knew that copper prices would tumble so badly within months? It was not too long ago that we were assuring ourselves that our macro-economic fundamentals were stable. Alas, things have changed. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has had to confront that reality to produce a Budget that speaks, not only to theoretical fundamentals, but also to the realities and contingencies of the public Budget.

Sir, I am less optimistic than most of my colleagues in anticipating that there will be a turn around in a short space of time. In my view, we may have a little longer period of darkness. Therefore, this Government must be prepared. Under the stewardship of President Banda as well as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I hope we can keep focus and, perhaps, avoid the illusion that somehow this situation will fade away very quickly. Thus, not even the copper prices may give us hope.

Mr Speaker, when 20 million Chinese nationals return home in such a short space of time, it tells you that the ground is trembling. Imagine if we had 20 million Zambians coming back home, where would we put them? 20 million Chinese have had to rush back to China because the global economy cannot sustain them outside China.

Sir, I think it will be more than three to four years before we begin to see a real turn around. I have to stand side by side with you, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, in supporting efforts meant to correct the disequilibrium in our economy which has been created not because of our internal bad policies, but because of the behaviour of certain economic players in the global market on whom we have no influence, but whose actions have a direct bearing on how my grandmother survives in Kalobwa. She is ninety-eight years old and still alive. She only experiences some leg pains.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, as I listened to Hon. Munkombwe, I was humbled to hear how much he has done in fifty-five years. By 2011, I would have been in this House for twenty years, a much smaller and humbler record.  As he counselled, the measure of our leadership, as hon. Members of Parliament, is the extent to which we make a difference in the lives of the people in our constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I came into this House as a nominated Member, coming from a district that had no boma, no road going to it, no electricity, hardly any schools, apart from Ponde and Chipungu where I went when we used to write on the ground in the late 1950s and  early 1960s. Our health infrastructure was like a pigsty.

Mr Speaker, today, I can say that the people of Chienge have a district administration, electricity, schools where our young boys and girls are doing their best to compete with their likes elsewhere in Zambia and health centres, including a hospital budgeted for after seventeen years of lobbying. Thanks to the Ministry of Health, it is in the Budget and, hon. Minister, I look forward to realising the dream of Chienge having a district hospital at last.

Mr Speaker, I would like to be like Hon. Munkombwe and say, “I am ready to give up,” but thinking about the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road, keeps me going. I feel moved to continue fighting for a little for the small group of people who send me to this House. They have been overwhelmingly faithful. I challenge any hon. Member who wants to contest against me in Chienge to do so at any time.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: There, I even beat presidential candidates, whether in the Opposition or in Government.

Mr Kambwili: I remember you beat President Mwanawasa because of magic.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, not because of any magic, …

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: … but because of working for the small men and women there and answering their little dreams. Those dreams are not answered because Katele controls anything, but because I work with the Government in power. I lobbied Hon. Saviye and said, “Look you do not have electricity in Zambezi and I do not have electricity in Chienge, therefore, let us work together.” Today, there is electricity in Zambezi and Chienge. That is a national perspective. When we put our heads together, we answer many questions that affect the lives of our people.

Mr V. Mwale: Ndiye bamuna, aba.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, we have been talking about tourism and, hon. Minister, I would like to encourage you to think aggressively about tourism. Anyone who has been to Chienge and, perhaps, even sat on the veranda of my house, because some of us have homes in our constituencies, would love the scenery of a 15 kilometre beachfront with undulating hills behind and the sound of waves hitting the lakeshore and singing birds. For God’s sake, I have travelled this world, but nothing in this world compares. I keep going back to that little piece of real estate God gave my ancestors. It is beautiful and calm.

Mr Speaker, when I realised that the people were going to be faced with starvation because of poor rains and the growing of maize was becoming impossible, I decided to lead by example. From being hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, after I shook hands with my uncle, bayama Mwanawasa, I went to the village to start growing rice with my bare hands. From flying in aeroplanes as hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and negotiating the African Union Charter to growing rice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, 33 hectares of rice was produced from my hands. Unfortunately, the police came and disturbed the process.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Nevertheless, Sir, there was progress. My people never believed that rice could be grown in Chienge and on a large-scale for that matter. Now they grow more rice than I can grow. In Chienge we do not receive relief food. Even when rice was donated to us, we refused. I am one of the hon. Members of Parliament who refused to get the rice because I wanted to promote a rice growing project amongst my people. If I began to give them relief rice from India, it would have spoilt their enthusiasm. Today, they grow rice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: We were told that the people of the north cannot keep animals. They can only eat them.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: As I speak, Sir, I am a cattle farmer in Chienge.

Hon. Members: How many cattle?

Dr Kalumba: Thanks to the advice of some very hon. Members on the other side of the House ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: … who sat with me and said do not be foolish …

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: I beg your pardon, Sir. Do not be unthinking, try it. It can happen. Consider breeds such as Brahmans, Boran and Ngoni bulls which can survive tough terrain. With the help of a few colleagues, I managed to start on a small-scale.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes, Tonga bull.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I can say, today, that the best place to breed cattle is Chienge.

Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: The cattle has multiplied like nobody’s business. There is salt in the ground and beautiful grass. When Nkosi ya ma kosi came to Chienge, the first thing he wanted to see was my cattle kraal. He said, “This is impossible. Mbuya, aah! Pepani, shuwa!

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: So, we can have this thing here?” It is possible where the hon. Member of Parliament, in the face of challenges to his people, demonstrates ...

Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: … that it is possible.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Quality.

Dr Kalumba: It can be done. This is why the partnership between the Government and we, hon. Members of Parliament, must be good.

Hon. Government Member: Zoona.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I believe that this Budget has measured the amount of mealie-meal and water available to this country. The hon. Minister was very careful to ensure that his expectations were not grandiose.

However, I want him to look closely at a little US$78 million item. In the privatisation of Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM), and I have stood before on this matter, there was a clear agreement that the British Government would make US$78 million available as a grant to Zambia for on lend to Anglo-American Corporation in order to sweeten the deal and make the privatisation of ZCCM possible. There was a profit sharing clause in the agreement – the so-called development agreements that we decided to do away with – that after Anglo-American Corporation had rehabilitated the copper smelter, it was supposed to pay the US$78 million back to the Zambian Government from its profits.

Mr Speaker, I am not convinced, as I stand here today, that we have pursued this issue aggressively enough. Maybe, I do not understand and there may have been some other considerations. However, I think that Zambians need to know that that money was given as a grant to the Zambian people, even beyond the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) rules to ensure that Zambia privatised the mines. Do we not deserve it if our name was used to get that money? Surely, we do and, hon. Minister, I urge you to follow up that issue. Let us know, whether there were certain understandings that changed along the way because that could help in a crisis budget.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister for fish, livestock and animals is not here. Oh! The one for the fruits and vegetables is here.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: The doctor of agriculture is here.

Sir, this very good team they have must remember, and I know my relative here knows, that in addition to being people who are learning how to grow cereals, as we are growing rice now, we are fishermen. Restocking Lake Mweru, the Luapula River and Lake Bangweulu is not about dumping fingerlings in Lake Mweru-Wantipa which is full of oily stuff. The fish in that lake is not tasty. If people are using mosquito nets to fish, send more fisheries’ officers to police them. When I was growing up, there were fishing camps and fisheries’ officers who used to monitor how much fish was caught everyday. You cannot enforce the fish ban effectively without fisheries’ officers on the ground. The country across the border, that has been at war, is doing a much better job policing the lake than we are. We are more equipped and better placed to police our side of the lake and bring back the fish which increased the population of the Copperbelt. We served the Copperbelt without killing their hearts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale: Ebabume aba.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

In adding the voice of the people of Namwala to this Budget debate, it is my hope that I will touch the heart of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and, indeed, the House so that we can evoke that spirit of nationalism that brought the Zambians together from north to south and east to west in dealing with the issues that are profound to me and the areas I live. The founding fathers of this country came together to fight for independence in order that today all of us seated here can be at Manda Hill legislating this Republic by making laws for our people. I am hoping that I shall be able, in the process of my debate, to touch the hearts of many.

Mr Speaker, before I start, I have a preamble. I wish to pay tribute to Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, and former President of the Republic of Zambia. What a President this country had. What a pity he had to leave us in so short a time when this country needed him the most. Through Levy’s presidency, it became possible even for those regions that did not have representatives at the very top of national leadership to claim their rightful place as equal participants in the democratic process of this country.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: We thank, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, whose parents lived in Namwala and left shops and other infrastructure there. He believed, to a certain extent, that the people of Namwala contributed to the presidency of this country at that hour of need.

UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I would like also to thank, Rupiah Bwezani Banda, for being the fourth President of the Republic of Zambia. We, in the UPND, accepted his victory.

Hon. MMD and UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka: I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and a few hon. Members of Parliament, such as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya and the hon. Minister for Luapula Province, with whom I share a lot of commonalities in some of these political matters and discussions.

Mr Speaker, I am terribly disappointed that I did not hear mention of any sanctions in either the President’s speech or from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on Kansanshi Copper Mine management for inhibiting an hon. Minister from doing his job. The hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security has the responsibility for all labour matters in the entire land, but he was thrown out of a mining plant in Kansanshi.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: He was chased.

Major Chizhyuka: The hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security is appointed by the Republican President.

Mrs Musokotwane: He actually represents the President.

Major Chizhyuka: Yes, he represents the President of Zambia. He was thrown out by an investor and we have not heard from His Excellency or the hon. Minister of Home Affairs on any intentions to deport the general manager of that mine. This is our country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: What the hell does he want in this country?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Speaker: Order! The word ‘hell’ in that context is unacceptable in the House.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word. I was expecting action to be taken with regard to this issue.

Mr Speaker, I expected the President to caution or reprimand the hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President for having said that eating poisonous fruits and roots that have killed people was okay. It is unfortunate that this Government should watch the people of Gwembe, Choma and Monze die from …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala, who is debating so well and to whom we are listening attentively, in order to mislead the nation that I, in the Office of the Vice-President, said that people should eat roots that have killed the people without bringing to the House statistics on how many people have died from the roots he is referring to? Moreover, my statement is on record. I laid it on the Table of this House to prove exactly what I said. I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Unakamba, iwe.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President is denying that he advocated the eating of poisonous roots. He says that he laid, on the Table of the House, exactly what he said. In short, contrary to what the hon. Member for Namwala is saying. This is not an issue of wrong versus wrong or right versus right. 
Where lives are involved, it is necessary that we adduce evidence or correct the impression. It may not be necessary for me to say since the hon. Member for Namwala is on the Floor, may he deal with that point of order. I think this House has heard enough on that subject. It is emotional and emotive. The Chair is not impressed as to which of you is right or wrong. What is necessary is that all of you rise to the occasion so that where there is need, let us say for food in this particular case, all of you work together to ensure that the affected people are looked after as they go about looking after themselves as well.

So, hon. Member for Namwala, I know how you and the people you represent feel about this matter. There may have been a misunderstanding on this matter. I believe that it is only the two of you who know where the truth lies. I think this House is sympathetic to what each of you has been saying. I believe it is enough.

Could you continue, hon. Member for Namwala.

Mr Sichilima: Long live the Chair.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the Budget has mentioned the MFEZs that are going to be located in Lusaka South …

Hon. UPND Member: And near the airport.

Major Chizhyuka: … and near the airport.

Sir, I have mentioned in public fora before that Lusaka South is a recharge area with 43 per cent of the underground water resources for Lusaka. I just want to read, for the sake of the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, Hon. Catherine Namugala, who is not in the House, but I am sure is listening somewhere, what seven learned professors from the University of Zambia School of Geology as well as a university in Italy have said …

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … on the area on which the Government would like to locate an MFEZ and pollute our country.

Sir, I will first read the comments by Professor Imasiku Nyambe, the Head of the School of Geology at the University of Zambia, and Dr Chimwanga Maseka.  The list is endless and all of this is about what these learned colleagues have said. I hope that after reading this, the Government will understand that when one becomes an hon. Minister, he or she does not become an expert and is merely a well informed person in the ministry. It is important for the survival of this land, Zambia, which is the only land that God Almighty gave us, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … for us to learn and understand from the experts who said:

“The Lusaka South Forest is considered to be the recharge area for the aquifer supplying the city’s water. The area was degazetted in 1985. As a result, most of the current and future industrial development will be on this karst aquifer. The aquifer already suffers from over-pumping, indiscriminate drilling, pollution from industrial effluents and domestic pollution.”

It goes further to say:

“… the city uses about 190,000 cubic meters per day of water, of which 53 per cent derives from surface sources and 47 per cent from the underground aquifer (ground water). The ground water is extracted through a network of about 40 active boreholes scattered across the city surface.”
Mr Speaker, 57 per cent of our water comes from the Kafue River. 47 per cent comes from the aquifer and it is in that area that you want to put an MFEZ for the Chinese. You want to make it even more difficult for the people in Matero, Kanyama and other places to have access to water because you have decided that the Chinese must build a MFEZ in that area. What are you trying to do? Do you love your country? What are the Chinese giving you which is more important than the very people who voted for you who you want to deny water?

Mr Speaker, there was an MFEZ in Iran called Little America. The Americans built a conglomerate of a facility and lived in splendour like Heaven on earth. However, the Iranians were not impressed. As a result, they realised that they could not have a Little America in the name of MFEZ in their land and called the Ayatollah Khomeini who was in France. There was a revolution and the Shah of Iran went together with the MFEZ.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: We do not need that MFEZ. Hon. Members, as you have heard, China is densely populated with 1.4 billion people. They now want a place to live in our country. You are only twelve million. What fraction of 1.4 billion is 12 million? Do you want to sell our land? This is the land which the Kaundas, Kapwepwes, Nkumbulas and Munukayumbwa Sipalos fought for. If they were to rise today, they would not be impressed with these grandiose ideas which will only help alienate our land. As hon. Members of Parliament, we are urging you to get rid of that MFEZ.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the issues are many. When I was coming from Namwala, my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa asked me why I was quiet. I was quiet because throughout the holiday, I was crying because I am a grassroots person.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: I have spent most of the time defending the people at the grassroots to a point where hon. Ministers wanted me arrested when we left a meeting. We left because we were unhappy to see the people of Sichifulo, some of whom had come from the Gwembe Valley area, being chased away. Their great grandparents were chased from the valley to allow for the construction of a dam to provide electricity to this country. Others came from the Tonga Plateau and now they cannot live in their ancestors’ homes because the Whiteman erected a barbed wire line from Livingstone all the way to Mulungushi. These 8,500 dejected people hoped to find solace and arable land to grow food in the Sichifulo area.

Sir, you have heard about job losses. The people on your right have decided to dim the light for 8,500 people. I intend to photocopy and lay these documents as well as those on the MFEZ on the Table for everyone to see.

Who are these people of Sichifulo who Catherine Namugala …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Use her official title, please.

Major Chizhyuka: … Hon. Catherine Namugala, Minister of Environment, Tourism and Natural Resources, chased from a game management area (GMA)? 1,078 households comprising 4,071 males and 4,395 females and totalling 8,466. 7,432 cattle, 9,306 goats, 440 pigs, 24,759 chickens, 46 donkeys, 102 sheep, 2,053 dogs, 121 cats, 15,255.5 hectares of cultivated fields and 75,531 fifty kilogramme bags of maize. The list is endless.

Due to its lack of wisdom, this Government’s has decided to displace a highly productive group of people. Today, this country has no maize, and yet these people produced 75,000 X 50 Kg bags of maize.
Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Major Chizhyuka: Today, they want to deal with the problems of the Copperbelt? Admittedly, those are our people, but deal with the people whom you decided to displace.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: The rules regarding GMAs allow people to live side by side with the animals.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: By law, people are allowed to live in GMAs. The Zambia Wildlife Act No. 2 of 1998 provides for the co-management of wildlife resources in GMAs with the local people.

There is a problem of land in Southern Province. I want to quote from page 1 of the Sakala Commission Report which says:

“Agitation for more arable and grazing land in Southern Province has existed since the advent of colonial rule. The alienation of a considerable part of the regional tribal areas for European settlement is a grievance which no Tonga will forget.”

Mr Speaker, who were the witnesses? At page 133 of the Sakala Commission Report, witness No. 102 was Hon. Munkombwe D., MP and commercial farmer. It was expedient at that time for Hon. Munkombwe to defend the cause of the people of Southern Province. However, because he is now in Government, he is at the centre of displacing the indigenous people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I have withheld my ruling on the word ‘shame’ for a long time. Look at one of your handbooks. The word ‘shame’ has been ruled out of order in this House many times by my predecessors for the very good reason that it is impolite. I rule the word ‘shame’ out of order as unparliamentary in this House because it is impolite. I support my predecessors on this matter.

Can the hon. Member continue, please.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I have a passion for the people at the grassroots and not the apamwambas. We survive on the breath of the people at the grassroots. These are the people who are suffering in our land. What would happen if Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula rose today, and found that Hon. Daniel Munkombwe is hon. Minister for the Southern Province and the people of Sichifulo, that include three senior headmen, Ndozya, Mubiana and Sakuhuka who are Tonga, Lozi and Luvale respectively, are being displaced? Why is the Government moving these people from the GMA? Is it because it does not like the Lozi, Tonga and people of the North-Western Province? There are thirty-six GMAs in this country and most of them have people living there.

Mr Magande: It is a Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) directive.

Major Chizhyuka: This Government does not like the whole belt and, therefore, wants to chase these people away so that there is no improvement in their lives, and yet the hon. Minister says that he wants to see a Budget in which everyone has food.

Mr Muntanga: Sole maningi!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I went to Sichifulo with Hon. Muntanga and Hon. Sing’ombe. Little children were running away in the same way you see in the Golan Heights and Sudan. That is happening here in Zambia.

Hon. Members: Cry!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I come from an area where we have struggled. We have struggled for the people of Mugoto, Mwanachingwala, Kabanje and Mbeza. I wonder whether it is befitting for me to be in Parliament instead of going to decide on a better process of defending our people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: You cannot disenfranchise 8,500 people and let them go hungry in their own country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: What kind of a Government are you? Do you have a heart?

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka:  There shall be a day …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … and I want you to remember the difference in the votes. At the rate you are going, we, on this side of the House, are going to make sure that 2011 will be the last time that you are in power. I swear.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala will lay the two documents he quoted from on the Table of the House. For the record, the correct figure for the population of the People’s Republic of China is 1.3 billion. This should not be confused with that of India which is 1.2 billion.

Major Chizhyuka laid the papers on the Table.

Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to add my voice to this debate.

Mr Speaker, it was pleasant to hear the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, although it is somehow tricky because it lacked some economic indicators. Besides that, it was a very sound speech. We can only hope that the controlling officers will ensure its effective implementation. 

Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge, in Zambia, that most speeches and manifestos are very well articulated, but poorly implemented. It is, therefore, in this respect that we hope things will be done differently. I, therefore, urge all the line ministries and controlling officers to ensure that things are done in accordance with the Budget.

Mr Speaker, the impact of the global economic recession has not spared Zambia. As a result, we face negative challenges such as the drop in copper prices and job and revenue losses. The impact of the recession has caused the closure of the Gateway Television (GTV) in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in the face of these challenges, it is imperative that we diversify our economy to agriculture and tourism so that we safeguard our social services and cushion our people from the impact of the crisis.

Mr Speaker, let me now propound on the areas of my suggested diversification.

Sir, in agriculture, to ensure a successful agricultural sector and healthy population, the Government should introduce farming blocks in all the districts and empower the peasant farmers.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, farming inputs should not be given to rich farmers because they end up in the markets. We should also ensure that every Zambian has a lima to grow food so that they can afford to have daily meals. We should not give away all the land to investors at the expense of the poor Zambians. It is imperative that every Zambian has land. I reiterate the need to have farming blocks in every district in the country so that we create economic zones which will foster employment.

Mr Speaker, regarding the MFEZ, it will not be proper to allow Zambians to be used for cheap labour. Let us ensure that our Zambian brothers and sisters work under good conditions of service.

Mr Speaker, we should seriously consider processing our agricultural products into finished products. We have a lot of agricultural products that we can process into finished products like flour and drinks. We can also produce different types of chemicals from the agricultural products. Not only would these products give us food, but they would also help widen our tax base, which Zambia requires.
 
Mr Speaker, Zambia is currently experiencing a lot of problems because of its over-dependence on copper. Copper being a diminishing product, it is important that we go back to the land. As you are aware, Zambia is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of agriculture, third only to Brazil and Sudan. We should, therefore, concentrate on agriculture.

Mr Speaker, let me look at diversification into tourism. As other hon. Members mentioned, Zambia has very beautiful scenery enriched with one of the Seven Wonders of the World. Why do we not exploit this? In Kenya, people live on tourism. In Malawi, they live on tourism and agriculture. What is wrong with Zambia? It is high time that Zambia diversified its economy into agriculture and tourism because there is real potential in those industries.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about social services. We appreciate that the Government is trying to build hospitals and schools in every district. However, are these buildings being completed?

Hon. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda: The answer is, “No”, because the money which is intended for these projects ends up in the pockets of the controllers who are allowed to get off scot-free.

Hon. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda: If we are to ensure that funds are put to good use, why should we wait for the Auditor-General’s Report which comes after two years? I think the task force is there to carry out on-the-spot checks and arrest the culprits.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda: In my constituency, there is a project which has been going on for almost ten years and because of lack of adequate funding, it cannot be completed up to now. The CDF was used, but the project is still incomplete because the money is not being taken to the right areas.

Mr Speaker, the same applies to Mwekera Forestry College. There are buildings which have been under construction for the past ten years and up to now they do not have a laboratory because of lack of funding. Every year, we hear about budgetary allocations to the institution, but where does the money go? I am sure that if the funds allocated are not properly managed by our controlling officers in the line ministries, we will just be wasting our time and money. Therefore, I urge all line ministries and controlling officers to ensure that things are done in accordance with our plans.

Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duties if I did not talk about Kamfinsa Constituency which has three major institutions. There is Kamfinsa Prison, the biggest prison in the region which caters for about 2,224 inmates at a time. This prison has very poor sanitation. As a result, we spend a lot of money on medicines to cure the diseases. How do you prevent the occurrence of diseases if you do not improve sanitation at the prison? I can assure you that Kamfinsa Prison is a hub of diseases because of poor sanitation. Let us look into this matter.

Sir, there is also Kamfinsa Mobile Force. The water reticulation system in this area is very poor. I remember that I once accompanied the former hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and we noticed that the dam was not in a good state. The rehabilitation works on the dam were badly done and this has caused a lot of inconvenience.

Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, there is nothing going on at Mwekera Forestry College.

Sir, I wish to urge the Government to consider increasing funding to the health and sanitation sectors in my constituency.

 Sir, it is annoying to see Zambians employed by the Chinese are not being paid well. This has also affected the work culture in the country.

Finally, I am appealing to the Government to consider increasing CDF because these are the only funds which enable most hon. Members of Parliament complete their projects. It was a blessing in disguise when CDF was increased from K30 million to K400 million. However, we have now seen that even K400 million is not enough. Hence, I join the bandwagon saying CDF should be increased to K1 billion so that we can complete the projects in our constituencies.
 
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Chibombamilimo): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for the opportunity to add my voice to one of the most important debates in our nation. To begin with, contrary to some voices that have spoken in opposition to this Budget, let me start with a deep sense of conviction and sincerity that before us is one of the most progressive and realistic budgets to come before this House in what has now become the hallmark of the MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, I am shocked to the core and indescribably disappointed with the suggestions by some hon. Members of Parliament in this House that seek, but in vain, to dismiss the tourism potential that has for many years gone begging for attention, exploration and exploitation in Northern Province, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Chibombamilimo: … around Lake Tanganyika in particular.

Mr Speaker, God Almighty in His infinite wisdom, impenetrable by casual human minds, chose to locate one of the wonders of nature, Lake Tanganyika, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear
Mr Chibombamilimo: … at the doorsteps of the Zambian people. He placed it there with the same command that He issued to the first human pair to ever live on the planet earth and that was to care for the environment for therein lies your sustenance.

Sir, true to that command, Lake Tanganyika provides sustenance for millions of residents in its vicinity and countless more far beyond its borders. That is not all. Indeed, the lake is a marvel to those sincere enough to study its secrets. The lake is home to more than 2,000 species and more than 300 different types of fish and many more are known to roam its vast waters and depth, awaiting discovery.

Mr Sichilima: Teach them!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Somewhere on this lake is a location elevated almost to the surface stretching quite a distance; a piece of land that stretches like a long narrow island while on both sides are sharp cliffs. There is a place on Lake Tanganyika where you can walk a long distance, while on the other side you can go 1 kilometre down. Is that not a wonder?

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear, tell them, Mudala!

Mr Sichilima: Teach them!

Mr Chibombamilimo: If these are not wonders to elicit gratitude to He that designed them and gave them to His human creation, what else can be a wonder?

Sir, my disappointment is only mitigated by the memories of the country’s first President, Dr Kaunda, who appreciated these natural wonders and demonstrated that, with innovation, man could derive countless benefits from them. Dr Kaunda, a distinguished son of Africa, took Kasaba Bay to an area that some of our colleagues in this House only see kapenta, emptiness and an economic void.

Mr Sichilima: Tell them!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Looking far beyond his time and peering down the corridors of time, Dr Kaunda saw the vast uses that the lake could be put to as evidenced by the practices that have emerged in many parts of the world today.

Mr Speaker, lakes, seas and oceans have become preferred destinations for holiday makers, conducting sporting events, locating hotels and lodges along their shores, plunging in the waters for pleasure and gazing upon their vast waters for therapeutic purposes.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Sichilima: The voice of Mpulungu!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, there is growing indisputable empirical evidence that lakes, seas and oceans are not just about kapenta, but that a modern economy can evolve and draw sustenance from their waters.

Mr Sichilima: Hammer, Cifire is listening!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Sir, the shores of the Indian Ocean on the island of Zanzibar provide an eloquent illustration of the potential of these large bodies of water to turn around the fortunes of nations and the lives of ordinary people. The pieces of land in Maputo overlooking the Indian Ocean are now much sought after by property developers. Driving along the shore, you will see some of the most spectacular properties found anywhere in the world.

Mr Mubika: Tell them!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Sir, the ports of Doula, in Cameroon, and on Victoria Island, in Lagos, Nigeria, should be a rebuke to some hon. Members of this House who are undermining efforts to improve infrastructure in areas such as Mpulungu Harbour on Lake Tanganyika.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, the cargo vessels and passenger ocean liners such as the Liemba that come to our shores are always reminders that, indeed, our harbour is a sleeping economic giant; a giant that awaits awakening with supporting infrastructure such as accommodation of world class standards, a good road network and a reliable supply of electricity.

Sir, examples are numerous from many parts of the world where Mother Nature’s endowments are being nurtured and utilised as economic assets. In Zambia, we, the representatives of the people, the leaders they look to for development initiatives, are sadly dismissing the beauties of Mutondwe Island, known as the Crocodile Island, Mbita Island and Chituta Peninsula, to mention but a few, on Lake Tanganyika.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear, bwekeshapo!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, Chichele, Mushroom and Mfuwe lodges in Mfuwe are located in an area where God gave the Zambian people the gift of wildlife, which is a sure attraction for visitors. Today, these lodges are teeming with life because they have been handed over to new owners who have added value to them. The same approach is needed to stir the famous Kasaba Bay into life as it holds attractions of nature that would force a visitor to visit again and again.

Sir, for those of you that care to know, Kasaba Bay provides a breeding ground for kapenta, bukabuka and many other fish species. Some kapenta and other fish species were taken to man-made lakes like Lake Kariba.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, to speak spitefully of Lake Tanganyika and refuse to add any value to it and instead seek to glorify an artificially created entity is one of the highest displays of ingratitude to the provider of natural wonders who designed them to fulfill the material needs of the human family.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, against this backdrop, opposition to investment …

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: Can you listen to the voice of reason.

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: … in and around such natural wonders can only be one of the saddest conspiracies against an innocent population; a population that has for too long wallowed in abject poverty and cried for a Government that could ease the burden of their painful lives.  Any opposition to this investment is injustice to the poor and a careless handling of the lives of human beings who are just as real as the most privileged or those of you who were born with a silver spoon in your mouths.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, I do not want to leave any stone unturned. This is just a friendly warning to those opposed to the poor of this country that stand to benefit from the investment in question. Please, if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, do not deny the vast majority of the Zambian people an opportunity to turn a new page in their long struggle for decent survival and human dignity.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, the distribution of tourism facilities across the country as Dr Kaunda did, was in recognition of the resources that this country is endowed with which are scattered around the country. This wisdom is valid to this day and may be cited to reform this Government’s investment choices. Distributing economic opportunities and setting up infrastructure in rural areas eases pressure on social facilities in urban centres. It is a form of bringing into the modern economy those parts of the country that may not do so by traditional market economics. For those familiar with development economics, this is what we call redistributive justice; a social policy that a government uses to redistribute wealth.

Sir, Mpulungu has a harbour that brings to its shores hundreds of visitors that require quality hotel accommodation. When I served as hon. Provincial Minister for Northern Province, I attended regional meetings in Tanzania in which frustrations were expressed at the fact that Mpulungu did not have quality hotel accommodation to host an international meeting despite its scenic beauty. How do you think that made me feel as hon. Provincial Minister? How do you think I now feel listening to contributions opposing the investment in an area I am a better placed to advise this House on; contributions made by people evidently speaking from seriously flawed positions?

Mr Speaker, I know why some hon. Members of Parliament are opposed to the idea of redistributing wealth in an area such as Mpulungu. They prefer that any funds intended to develop tourism should go to other areas. The motive is extremely sad because it is political and intended to take resources only to areas where they see an opportunity to gain a foothold. They have found support mainly along the line of rail and wish to pour every national resource there under the pretext of maximising on investment.

Sir, bombarded with one development initiative after the other, they are now panicking and scampering for political cover sensing huge political losses come 2011.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Sir, they are aware that the MMD may not even require to campaign because the good policies and works will speak for the party.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Amongst you, there are people that may look to the early days of liberalisation when the MMD paid less attention to these facilities and wonder why I should speak so fondly of the past we seem not to have recognised. My answer to such skeptics of our genuine commitment to the plight of the Zambian people, in whose name and interest we are taking these bold steps, is found in the words of Winston Churchill who said:

“To recite past activities is indeed lawful, but to recite them for the sake of killing renewed national efforts,” for lack of words, “is myopic…

Hon. Opposition Members: Are you quoting?

Mr Chibombamilimo: … or shortsighted”.  Yes, I am quoting.

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: Sir, immediately, following …

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, being the scholar and politician that I am, I will collect recordings of these deliberations, which are for public consumption, and relay them to the people of Mpulungu so that they know who is working against them and their attempts to benefit from the modernisation of the economy. When the battle lines are drawn in 2011, they will know who pretends to care and who genuinely stands in the frontline waging fierce battles on their behalf.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, underestimating the wrath of the people of Mpulungu against anybody who trivialises their plight is underestimating the urgency of …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister is threatening …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … and intimidating those who want to debate freely.  You may move to another point.

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, I would like to end by saying that this Budget is one of the best in the recent history of this nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I feel greatly humbled to speak after two eloquent speakers, who went through the history of Zambia and two other speakers who spoke very passionately. One of them spoke about poverty and the suffering of the Zambian people and the other about imaginary people who are opposing the allocation of resources to development. I will try to be very modest in my contribution.

Mr Speaker, let me start by congratulating Hon. Dr Musokotwane on his inaugural Budget Address. We have known each other for a long time and he is a very experienced man. As we heard, he was claimed yesterday and today. This just proves that success has many parents and failure is an orphan. I would like to caution you, hon. Minister, that this world, as we know it, has too many pretentious people who like you when you are in a position of power and authority. However, when you are posted to gonakuzingwa, …

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … you are forgotten.

Mr Speaker: Order! Where is that?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Where is that?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, gonakuzingwa is a part of this House where people, after being dropped, are shunted and almost forgotten.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Here!

Mr Lubinda: There are many people …

Mr Speaker: Order! Just to guide you and rest of the House. There is no part of this House considered so undesirable that people are thrown there. The hon. Member for Kabwata may wish to know that the Chair started from there.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: This is not to encourage you to debate the Chair, no.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, I would like to advise the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to heed some of the advice offered to him by Hon. Sichamba yesterday, who said that not everything that comes from this side of the House is meant to injure.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Lubinda: As a matter of fact, quite a lot of the debates from this side of the House are well intended. We intend to offer guidance and advice. Like the hon. Minister for Southern Province said, it is entirely up to you to take or leave the advice. Nobody will force it upon you.

Mr Speaker, let me now attempt to make a few comments on the Budget Address. I would like to comment on a matter that has been commented on by others; the vision of the Budget. In my attempt to analyse the macro-economic policies that are supposed to drive this vision, I will look at a few sectors.

Sir, Martin Luther King Jr. once said:

“ If you want to move people, it must be towards a vision that taps from their values, beliefs and aspirations. It must be so inspiring that it compels them to follow.”

 Those were Martin Luther King’s words. In short, a good vision is one that gives hope that things will be better and that life will become more meaningful. It, therefore, is one that is achievable.

Mr Speaker, Zambia, at the moment, has three visions or themes. Firstly, the Vision 2030, of Zambia becoming a middle-income country by the year 2030.

Secondly, the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), 2006 to 2010 for broad-based wealth and job creation through citizenry participation and technological advancement.

This year, the Rupiah Banda led Government, I am not going to say Hon. Dr Musokotwane, has proposed a vision which Hon. Mrs Musokotwane read earlier this afternoon. Is that vision achievable in one, five, ten or twenty years? Does the vision compel us to follow?

Mr Speaker, let us look at the elements of that vision. Let us begin with the assertion that every citizen shall wake up well-nourished. If you look at the indicators with regard to nourishment, you will see that in Zambia, in 2006, 54.2 per cent of under five children had stunted growth. In the following two years, there was no improvement. The percentage of children under five who have stunted growth is still 54 per cent.

Mr Speaker, in 2006, the percentage of under five children who were underweight was 19.7 per cent. There was a reduction of 7 per cent. The percentage of children that were Vitamin A deficient increased from 54 per cent, in 2006, to 65.7 per cent, in 2008. When will you achieve a well-nourished citizenry if all the indicators show that you are regressing? No progress is being made. There is regression in as far as nourishment of the citizenry is concerned. On that element, I want to propose to you, hon. Minister, that you will not attain it not even in twenty years.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said every Zambian must have decent housing. Will that be attained in twenty years? Last year, we were informed that recent studies indicate that Zambia has a 1.5 million backlog of housing units and that we need to build 110,000 housing units every year for the next fifteen years to deal with that backlog.

How did we perform in the period 2006 to 2008? 170 units were built in Lusaka through the National Housing Development Programme. They built five housing units in Nakonde, three in Mungwi, seven in Mpulungu, seven in Milenge, seven in Mambwe, seven in Chilubi and eight in Mufumbwe. A total of 214 housing units were built when we are aiming at 110,000 per year. How long will it take us to build 110,000 housing units?

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Kabwata in order to quote statistics without indicating their source so that we can follow him properly because he cannot quote statistics just like that? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Will the hon. Member for Kabwata attend to the point of order raised by the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice.

May he continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, several people have attempted to challenge me on my source of figures. I want to show him this document published by his Government entitled ‘2007 Annual Fifth National Development Plan Progress Report’.

Mr Lubinda raised the document.

The statistics I am giving are on page 96 of the report. If he cared to read, he would not ask me that question.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, another element of the vision relates to access to water.

Sir, even with water and sanitation, we have not been making sufficient progress to state in our vision that one day every Zambian shall have access to safe drinking water. It will take us more than fifty years to achieve that dream. This is because whereas in 2000 peri-urban access to water was 44 per cent and in rural areas it was 37 per cent, there has just been an increase of 10 per cent in per-urban areas and 4 per cent in rural areas over the last two years. At the rate of a 4 per cent increase over two years, when do you think we will achieve total access to clean and safe drinking water for the Zambian people?

Sir, the starting point of the whole Budget is wrong because the vision is not attainable and is not inspiring anyone to follow it.
 Mr D Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, what are the economic policies that the hon. Minister and the Government are proposing for us to arrive at that Rupiah Banda dreamland? The policies are:

(a) 5 per cent Gross Domestic Product (GDP) Growth;

(b) diversification;

(c) competitiveness; and

(d) decentralisation.

Mr Speaker, let us start with the GDP growth. In the FNDP period of 2006/2007, we projected 7 per cent growth. What did we achieve? 6.1 per cent. In 2008, we had an economic boom. What did we achieve according to the Budget? We achieved 5.8 per cent as against 7 per cent. In 2009, we have been told by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his Budget Speech that the global financial crisis shall have a negative bearing on the growth of Zambia’s GDP, and yet he is projecting a 5 per cent growth. Where will that 5 per cent growth come from? What will generate that growth?

Sir, against these indications, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) World Economic Outlook Report of 28th January, 2009, indicates that for sub-Saharan Africa, there is no reason, whatsoever, to anticipate any growth above 3.5 per cent. Yet, in Zambia we have we have drawn a budget on the basis of a growth of 5 per cent. What does that mean? It means that if we do not achieve the 5 per cent growth, all the fantastic figures that you have put in the Budget will not be achieved. Therefore, we are starting with a very ambitious Budget which will be very difficult to attain. We are telling the Zambian people things that we know are not achievable.

Mr D. Mwila: Tell Them!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I know that the hon. Minster has made several proposals on investment and improving the investment climate in Zambia. However, all of us know that any meaningful investment requires a minimum gestation period of one year. Even in agriculture, you will not plant the seed now and expect the crop to improve your GDP this year. If you plant this year, the crop will have an impact on the Budget for next year. Yet, you are promising the Zambian people that you will grow the GDP by 5 per cent. Where will the 5 per cent come from?

Sir, the construction industry that you are promoting also requires time to mature. Bear in mind that even the investment that you are talking about is not available locally because there is no capital in Zambia to invest. The capital is foreign. If the foreign capital market is facing a credit a crunch, where do you expect the investors to borrow from? Capital in Zambia is so expensive. Where do you think the investors will borrow to come and invest in the construction industry so that you grow the GDP by 5 per cent?.

Mr Speaker, the issue of diversification is an old and tired story. Those who have been in this House for twenty years, like Hon. Dr Katele Kalumba, will tell you that every single year the Budget has been passed, we have been told about diversification. How much have you done to diversify? Nothing. That is an old tired story which has become rhetorical and does not move anyone at all because we do not seem to put our money where our mouths are. We are talking about diversification without taking measures to put in place and encourage the growth of the gemstone industry, for example. People have been complaining that our gemstones are being externalised without any positive impact on our economy. What have you done in the Budget this year? Have you put in place measures to ensure that we capture the value of those gemstones? With regard to the manufacturing sector, the Budget talks about the MFEZs which I will talk about later.

Sir, what about the forward and backward linkages? Have you done anything about that? You have not. We are talking about investing money in the tourism sector. Yes, it is very important to invest K77 billion in the tourism sector. I would like to say to the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, who said that he was the hon. Minister for Northern Province in his debate, that nobody is opposed to K77 billion being invested in promoting tourism in Mpulungu and Kasaba Bay. The question that we ask is: what is the relationship between the decision by the Government to spend K77 billion, this year, in Mpulungu and the visit of His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, and one Charles Davy to Kasaba Bay.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Is there any relationship? Please, explain that to us. If, indeed, that investment is going to take place as a result of Charles Davy, then that is tantamount to abuse of public resources.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: You cannot invest public resources in an area because you have made a promise to one investor. That is not fair for the rest of the country. We are also asking: where do you get the greatest value and return for your investment? There are places like Chirundu and Luangwa. Why do you not allocate K10 billion to open up the road from Feira on the confluence of the Luangwa and Zambezi rivers to Chiawa where there is already tourism infrastructure? Hon Minister, you want to come to this House and start singing songs and threatening to campaign against those who are opposed to the idea?

Mr Speaker: Order! I ruled on that point. Therefore, do not repeat it.

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, Zambia is such a resource endowed country. Even just the fact that we are landlocked, with eight neighbouring countries, puts us at a comparative advantage, and yet we are not taking advantage of our position. Why does Zambia not become the hub of the road network in this sub-region? Why do you not invest so that Zambia becomes the hub of the railway transport system? How come South Africa has become the hub of the airline industry? You have to fly over Lusaka, Malawi and Harare to go to South Africa, and yet the centre of the sub-region is here. Instead, you have given your Chinese friends the land at the Lusaka International Airport to create an MFEZ.

You have given land that is supposed to be used for the expansion of the airport to an MFEZ. Yet, you are talking about diversifying the economy and growing it by 5 per cent. You say all these things, my dear friends, tongue-in-cheek. I want to suggest to you that we should invest where our mouths are. Zambia can be the hub of communications with the optic fiber that you are installing all over the country. Why do you not enhance investment in that area so that we become the communications hub?

Sir, let me end by talking a little about a matter that is very close to my heart; a matter that Hon. Major Chizhyuka spoke about, the MFEZ. How could you possibly get K30 billion of taxpayer’s money to pave the roads for an MFEZ? One of the MFEZs will be located in Chilenje South. What do you think is going to happen to the people residing in Chilenje? There shall be gentrification to a level where a lot of the people in Chilenje who cannot get jobs in the MFEZ will be displaced. Where will they go? Have you created an alternative location for them?

I want to suggest to you that you go to the beautiful Barotseland Plains. Get your Chinese friends who want land …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and who you treat well and tell them to develop the plains. That topography is exactly the same as the one in the Netherlands. The people of the Netherlands are able to feed themselves in a flooded country. Why do you not give them a piece of land there and a lease of fifty years so that they develop the infrastructure? Why do you not do that? Instead, you want to give them the City of Lusaka. You want them to come and use facilities that were built by the Zambian people.

With the amount of congestion in Lusaka, you want to put up an MFEZ in Chilenje South and at the airport, and yet you are not even expanding the road network. What do you think will happen to us? And you are saying, “Yes, this is the best thing we can give to the Zambian people.” That is not fair.

Sir, we are not opposed to the MFEZs, but to their location. Please, take them far away. The other day, somebody was complaining that you cannot only deliver development to urban centres. I agree with the hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development that we must deliver development to far-flung areas. We should take the MFEZs to far- flung areas so that the investors can open up railway lines, put up roads and deliver water for us.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That is how a normal thinking government works. You do not give land which has been developed by the people to foreigners.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Hon. Chizhyuka informed you that 43 per cent of the water that is drunk in Lusaka comes from the area you want to establish an MFEZ in. Let me also inform you, in case you do not know, that the whole of Lusaka sits on chalk. Those of you who have studied physics will know that if chalk dries up, it cakes. Once it cakes, it cannot hold any load. It collapses. Today, if you go to the Finance and Development Corporation (FINDECO) house, you will see that it is tilting. Why is it tilting? Because the chalk on which it is sitting is drying up. You want to put your MFEZ friends in that area so that they drain the water and disturb the ecology in the area so that there is no more water to feed the chalk in Lusaka. We expect that you will put up sky-scrapers in that area. What is going to hold up those sky-scrapers you want to put up?

My dear friends, we want meaningful development for the Zambian people. We do not want development that brings down the quality of life of Zambians.

Earlier today, somebody mentioned that the MFEZ you want to put up at the airport is bound to pollute the whole of Lusaka. Are you concerned about that? Yet, you come and tell us that your vision for 2009 is to give a decent life to every citizen from every corner of Zambia. That is a contradiction of purposes. Instead of diversifying the economy, you want to find ways of diversifying your bank accounts.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Can you, please, tell us, the relationship between the offers that you are getting and the decisions you are bringing for us to pass in the House?

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Kabwata will deliver evidence on the Table of the House that the persons he is referring to have been bribed. Do you have that evidence?

If not, move on.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, two years ago, it will be remembered that I spoke passionately about tourism promotion in Zambia, but only K500 million was allocated to the sector. Today, you have allocated K2 billion to the sector and think that you are going to advertise and promote tourism in Zambia on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), Muvi Television or Radio Phoenix. You need to promote Zambia’s tourism internationally and you cannot do that with K2 billion. You know that hon. Ministers of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and Finance and National Planning.

I would like to urge you to, please, increase the allocation for tourism promotion even if it is meant for Kasaba Bay in Mpulungu. It is not only for the Zambians, but for the tourists who will bring money into the country.

Finally, Sir, I would like to agree with those who are saying that CDF should be increased to K1 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I will be brief.

Sir, I just want to add my voice to the many voices that have spoken before …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

 Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives in order to remain silent and not inform this nation on the acquisition of maize from outside the country when there is a critical shortage of mealie-meal in the country, especially on the Copperbelt, and Chingola in particular?

Sir, there is information that the Government contracted a company to acquire maize on its behalf. Sixty trucks ferrying this maize have been impounded at the border. Of these sixty trucks, fifty-four are carrying Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO) maize that is against the policy of this nation unless it has changed. Is the hon. Minister in order to remain quiet on this very important issue to the nation? I need a very serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chingola has raised a point of order on the silence of the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. However, he will recall that two days ago, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives made clear reference to the rationale for the State ordering maize through the FRA. As you recall, he gave conflicting information as to whether or not there were enough stocks of maize even as the FRA had been required to order that maize. That matter has already been discussed in this august House.

As regards the number of trucks carrying GMO maize among the trucks bringing maize into Zambia, the House will recall that within the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is an organisation which has acquired the technology to detect any food items that may contain GMO be it maize or any other crop.

If the hon. Member’s information is correct, it is my understanding, therefore, that that maize will be impounded because as a matter of policy, GMO commodities are banned in Zambia.

The hon. Member for Mfuwe may continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Imwe mulefwaya ukwipaya abantu, imwe!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I want to start my debate by saying that the hon. Members on your right are not going to intimidate the hon. Members on your left. Our brothers seated on that side of the House should not think that when hon. Members on this side of the House criticise certain issues, they are just politicking. That is not correct. There are times when an hon. Member speaks in a manner that sounds critical and they start saying they will not help us. That is neither correct nor democratic.

Mr Speaker, whatever achievement this Government has made, is as a result of the positive criticism from the Opposition.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on this side of the House are there to check the Executive, especially since some Government offices are occupied by cadres. This is making it extremely difficult for us hon. Members from the Opposition to follow certain issues in those offices …

Mr D Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: … because immediately they hear that you are from the Opposition, it becomes very difficult for them to attend to you.

Sir, I do not want to be in this House for twenty years because it is not good. I want, if possible, to be in this House for only ten years. What does this mean? It is like being in this House is a means of survival for politicians. There are many things that one can do outside politics. What is important is to create an environment which will enable everybody do something without thinking that the only way to survive is by becoming a politician. This information is not good for the people out there. That is why during campaigns, we go to the extent of hacking one another in order to become hon. Members of Parliament or hon. Ministers.

Mr Speaker, we should not paint a picture to the Zambian people that the only way one can develop or become rich in this country is by becoming a politician because that is not correct.

Hon. D Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I now want to debate on issues pertaining to the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

 Mr Speaker, I have just realised the importance of this ministry. The reason we have problems in many Government departments is that we look at this ministry as a dormant one. When it comes to funding, we always give it very little money, which makes it very difficult for the two important departments in this ministry to function. These are the Labour Inspection Department and the Labour Factory Department. It becomes very difficult for the officers in these departments to inspect companies, some of which pay their workers very little money. The only way we can improve in this area is by seriously looking at this ministry. When we do that, the officers from these departments will be able to go around and check on the safety conditions and conditions of service for the people who work in small companies. The Government needs to be very serious with regard to this issue

Mr Speaker, I would now like to look at the work culture in our country. Many hon. Members have spoken about this and we need to be serious about this issue. I would like to point out something, especially about the Civil Service. It is becoming difficult for anyone to follow up a matter in Government departments. If you want something from a Government department, you will not get it quickly. They will tell you to go there the next day and immediately you leave the office, they stop looking at your issue. They will look at your case when you follow it up because that is when they will remember that you had gone there to look for something.

Mr Speaker, we cannot develop like that. Everyone from a sweeper to an hon. Minister needs to be serious. We expect everyone to work very hard, especially now when we are crying about the hard economic situation. We need to be serious and give credit where it is due.

Sir, ever since I came to the National Assembly, I cannot point at any office where I can say the people are lazy. Everybody in this building, and by this I mean the workers, works hard. If the workers in the Civil Service worked like the staff of the National Assembly, I can assure you that this country would develop.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, the workers here are very serious with their work and need to be commended. We should give credit where it is due. When they say, “Hon. Member, come on such a day, you will find this ready,” you will find it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Kanveka monga ka advance ako.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, we just enjoy their services without praising them. I just wanted to deliver that point.

Hon. Member: Masimpe ayo!

Mr Malama: Sir, it is not wise for the Government and the people of this nation to only develop constituencies which belong to hon. Ministers. This is not good and I will tell you why. Why should I have to be the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for Mfuwe Constituency to develop? I want to talk about hon. Ministers. I do not agree with part of the debate of the hon. Member for Chienge. The hon. Member was hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development which made it very easy for him to take development to Chienge. Why should it be that for me to take electricity to Mfuwe, I must become the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning? That is why the distribution of funds must be done equitably.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: It is only when we work along those lines, that we are going to bring peace in this nation. There shall not be any peace in this country if we do not distribute the resources equally. If the Government increases the CDF, this country will develop at the same pace.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: We do not want a situation where when you become hon. Minister of Health, you build a lot of health posts in your constituency. That is not fair or progressive, but retrogressive. We want the Zambian money to be distributed equally. That is why we are saying that the Government should increase CDF to K1 billion or K2 billion. It is not only the Opposition that will benefit from this, but even our colleagues on your right.

Mr Speaker, mathematically, if you give each constituency K1 billion, you are talking of K150 billion. In terms of percentages, that it is 0.3 percent of the total Budget, which is nothing. All we are saying is that we need to create an enabling environment so that when one retires from wherever he/she is working, they will be happy to settle anywhere, including Mfuwe Constituency, without thinking of the bad road network.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, the job of hon. Member of Parliament is temporary. Let us take the opportunity, while we are here, to improve the environment out there so that when we are kicked out of the system, which may happen in two year’s time, we find a suitable environment that will enable us survive. We do not want a situation where a person wants to come back to the House because the environment out there is harsh. It is time for us to improve the environment so that we do not avoid going back to the land when we are no longer in the House. Our forefathers used to say, “Go back to the land,” though they have failed to go back to the land themselves.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, it is important for us to look into these issues seriously if we are to improve.

Mr Speaker, the issue of the Great North Road is actually worrying. I do not know whether it has become a custom for this country to allow our roads to reach the state that the Zimba/Livingstone Road has reached.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, the Great North Road is becoming impassable. Last time I asked a question on the road, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply said that motorists needed to know that a particular stretch of road had potholes and, therefore, they should not drive carelessly on it. Must somebody driving from South Africa to Tanzania dream that he/she is driving on a stretch of road full of potholes and, therefore, must be careful? I do not know whether it is difficult for the Government to put up sign posts to alert motorists that they are going onto a stretch of road that is full of potholes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Potholes are here.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether it is very expensive for the Government to do that. Do we need investors to do that?

Laughter

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, this is the advice from the Opposition. We are saying if the Government cannot work on that stretch as soon as possible, let it put up sign posts to alert motorists.

Mr Speaker, what is worrying me is that when you want to become an hon. Member of Parliament, you are serious about what you want to do for your people. We used to condemn former hon. Members of Parliament for failing to deliver. Even if we condemned them, it has also become difficult for us to deliver. There must be a problem. If we are to deliver, we need to change the way we handle issues.

Mr Speaker, today, I met somebody at Arcades Shopping Mall who said, “Honourable, why are you not in the House?” I said the biggest problem with us Zambians is that we do not even know the programmes for hon. Members of Parliament. That becomes a very big issue to me, personally. This is because I do not want to continue fighting for this position as a means of survival. Some people have failed to survive on their own and have continued to come back to this House which, for me, is not good. If it is good for them, then I wonder whether they can plan on their own. I am not going to accept that. If I do not win in 2011, I better go and plant myself somewhere in Mfuwe and start cultivating.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: That is better for me. There are so many people with new ideas who can take over.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: We do not need the same people all the time. There are new and better ideas that we can utilise from people who have never been politicians. The danger of staying in one position for too long is that it becomes monotonous. You will not have the vigour you had before. Continuing to be here is quite difficult because it becomes like a tradition where you come here and say, “Hear, hear!” and think it is enough when it is not.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, this is the time for us to be serious because hard times await us out there. We should not continue waiting for increments or gratuity to survive. We need to create a better environment out there so that even if we are …

Interruptions

UPND Member: It is our entitlement.

Interruptions

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I am not trying to debate us, because I know that we are not supposed to do that. What I am trying to say is that let us create a better environment out there so that any Zambian can live on his own without thinking that he/she should become a director.

Interruptions

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I hope that this Budget will impact upon the lives of the people of Mfuwe Constituency who have been neglected for quite a long time. As I speak, it has taken the Zambian Government forty-four years to enable the people of Chief Nabwalya’s area see a bridge at Mutinondo. Today, you can cross the Mutinondo River, but, again, despite the Government spending about K7.7 billion on that bridge, it is not being utilised because the road is still impassable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: I just hope that the Yellow Book contains about K30 billion so that the road that leads to Chief Nabwalya’s area can be worked on.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, I also wish to add my voice to the debate on this year’s Budget. It is always a challenge to speak after very good debates, especially from the hon. Minister for Southern Province, Hon. …

Hon. Members: Za yellow.

Mr Chongo: Not Za yellow.

… Lubinda and Hon. Major Chizhyuka.

Laughter

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, I want to start with the so-called Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) relief to the workers. In case, we did not do our homework properly, I want to correct the impression that many hon. Members who spoke have about the relief which they said was K100,000. That is not correct. Actually, the relief is only K25,000 because it is the K100,000 that was supposed to be taxed at 25 per cent that has been set aside. Therefore, the relief is not K100,000, but K25,000. It is unfortunate. Workers in the Civil Service and, indeed, the private sector do not even earn up to K5 million. For somebody who earns K5 million per month, the relief is only K30,000. Thus, you cannot say you have given a relief to workers. This is a mockery. I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, to relook into this issue and come up with an amendment to give the workers something better than this.

 Further, from the proposed tax regime, the relief that pruned and retired workers will get is nothing more than K500,000. This is still not good enough, especially with the current inflation levels.

Mr Speaker, I want to comment on the issue of leaders taking development to their areas. I would like to talk about it because I want to ask hon. Members of Parliament and politicians that are not hon. Members to be careful when dealing with issues of development in this nation. 

When Fredrick Jacob Titus Chiluba was President of this country, he was criticised on many issues. One of these was the construction of a filling station at his village by a private individual. When just three street lights were put up along the main road, he was criticised for taking development to his area. This is very sad. My village is in Mwense Constituency. I decided to offer myself for service as an hon. Member of Parliament because I had seen how my people were suffering. My aspiration to become an hon. Member of Parliament was driven by my desire to serve my people. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with my prioritising my area in terms of development.

Hon. PF Member: Hammer!

Mr Chongo: I say this because of certain remarks that I have heard pertaining to the rehabilitation of the Mfuwe-Chipata Road. It is being insinuated that the road is being reconstructed because certain Government officials come from that area. We should realise that the Mfuwe-Chipata Road is not being used by one person. If there is need to rehabilitate it, we should do so.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Thereafter, we can tell the Government what developmental projects we need to undertake in our various constituencies. This would be a challenge to the Government.

Hon. Oppositions Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: While still on the issue of roads, I want to concur with what Hon. Lubinda stated about Kasaba Bay. When we criticise the Government, it is not because we do not like the people on your right. We look at how issues are being handled.

Sir, I do not see the need for this Government to spend K20 billion to K30 billion to work on the road that leads to Kasaba Bay when it has said there is a preferred investor that is going to invest in the area. The said investor has openly claimed to have money to develop Kasaba Bay and the road that leads to it. This is an incentive to this nation and we should, therefore, allow this investor to go ahead and develop this area so that the money that the Government wanted to spend on the road can be used on other needy areas.

When we speak like this, it is not because we want to criticise for the sake of doing so. There is a good reason for this. If the Government is convinced that this is the right investor, why not let this investor come with their own money to develop the area. After all, we have learnt a lesson that when investors come, they find facilities which they use to reap what they want and then run away. Therefore, we want investors to build infrastructure so that when they run away, they leave some development in the country.

I also want to talk about Luapula Province, which is a ‘Cinderella’ province just like Western and North-Western provinces. I do not know that …

Hon. Opposition Members: No, talk about Northern.

Mr Chongo: I am talking about, Luapula, North-Western and Western provinces and not Northern Province.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: As if by design, these three provinces are always allocated meagre resources by every hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that takes up that portfolio. Is it because the Government is really convinced that we do not need development? We really need development in Western, North-Western and Luapula provinces.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Luapula is one of the provinces that are always at the tail end of resource allocation. This is not fair. When we look at the development that we need, it is only one road; the Tuta-Mansa-Mwense-Nchelenge Road, which has a stretch of about 300 kilometres. This Government cannot fail to find K300 billion, going by what we have been told that every kilometre costs K1 billion. There is need for the Government to do something about this.

 Mr Speaker, as much as we want to encourage the Government to enhance tourism in Luapula Province, I am surprised at the manner in which resources are allocated to certain sectors. It is a well known fact in this country that in Luapula Province, especially along the valley, the economic activity that is prevalent is fishing. However, the Government has allocated more resources to tourism than fishing, and yet fishing can have an immediate and effective impact on the lives of the people.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: We should think of allocating reasonable amounts of money to fishing so that the lives of the people in this province are improved. I want to remind the House and the MMD Government that Luapula Province is one area where relief food is rarely sent because we are able to sustain ourselves in that regard. We do not beg for food. All that we are asking for are small things that the Government needs to help us with.

Mr Lubinda laughed.

Mr Chongo: Sir, K30 billion would go a long way in fish restocking. In 2007, the then hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives talked about giving us K50 billion and even called us to the office to brief us about this money. According to my calculations, each district would have received about K7 billion if we were to distribute this money equitably. We were supposed to receive this money under the Programme for Luapula Agriculture Rural Development (PLARD). However, two and a half years have now passed and not a single ngwee has been spent on any project. We were, however, told, late last year, that K15 billion had already been used. What were these funds used on? Seminars …

Mr Lubinda: And workshops.

Mr Chongo: Yes, and workshops. Only officers from Finland are benefiting from this programme.

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

Mr Chongo: This programme is under the Finnish International Development Agency (FINNIDA). The woman running this programme has actually become untouchable. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to ensure that, this time around, the K50 billion is used effectively for its intended purpose. We have already identified the projects that we would like to undertake because we know where our needs lie. If this money is not used appropriately, the hon. Minister should take it back to the Treasury, lest it is said that the people of Luapula Province benefited from it. We are not benefiting at all and are being cheated.

Mr Chimbaka interjected.

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we are considering developing other industries in the province like mines. We have very rich deposits of various minerals in the area. Why are investors not coming to this area? It is simply because of one commodity; electricity. It is true that we have the Musonda Power Generating Plant, but it is only able to generate three mega watts. This is not even enough to service Mansa town.

Mr Mwenya: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: I would like to suggest to the Government that instead of spending billions of Kwacha rehabilitating a generation plant in Northern Province from which we are expected to benefit in five years time, we should consider connecting power through the Pedicle Road since we have been given a leeway to tar this road, which only has a 69 kilometre stretch.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chongo: This would help us a lot and we would have the power needed to open up various industries.

Mr Lubinda: Waumfwa, Chibombamilimo.

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, as regards CDF, in as much as many hon. Members of Parliament have sent a clear message to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that K1 billion would have been sufficient, I also want to engage the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to, at least, relook into the guidelines. It was only the other day when I read a newspaper article about the district co-ordinating committee (DCC) in Choma refusing to approve projects on the basis that they were not viable. The DCC is mandated to look at projects and see whether they are being funded by other sectors and not to assess their viability.

Mr Speaker, I want to remind the Government that these funds are a source of politics in many areas. Therefore, I would suggest that hon. Members of Parliament be given a deciding vote on this matter. This is because they have the mandate to take care of the interests of the people in their respective areas. There are some areas where certain politicians have intimidated council management in order to undermine certain hon. Members of parliament so that they fail to deliver. To avoid this, hon. Members of Parliament should be given a deciding vote on this. Of course, we know that the council management is going to manage and we will not be signatories, but we need to be given a very strong voice.

Mr Speaker, although many genuine points have been raised regarding the MFEZs, I also want to add my word of advice to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Government. Are you sure that the people of Zambia are going to be protected considering that we do not have many industries in the country, but have many suppliers supplying the mines and many other industries? Are you sure the MFEZs will not be controlled by the investors who will also be the suppliers of the industries there, thus, denying our local traders the business that they have been doing? If that happens, how are the many people who supply the mines and other industries going to earn their livelihood? This is an aspect that should be looked into.

Mr Speaker, I wish to make a last plea to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives.

Mr Lubinda: He has gone out!

Mr Chongo: I want to ask him to encourage Luapula Province to develop. For instance, this year’s allocation to develop the entire 150 constituencies is only 0.45 per cent of the national Budget. If you increased it to 1 per cent, which is equivalent to K1 billion per constituency, this would go a long way.

Mr Speaker, we want the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to look at how we can revamp the growing of cassava in our area. It is not that we do not know how to grow it, we just want to be helped. We also request the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to find a good market for our cassava. By so doing, we will encourage many people to go into cassava growing. After all, cassava is drought resistant. This is why the people of Luapula Province are very proud; they do not knock at your doors to ask for relief food.

With these few words, I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House. 
Mr Speaker, before I come to the Budget, may you allow me to commend some hon. Ministers whom I feel have tried to do something in my constituency.

Mr Speaker, let me start with the hon. Minister of Education, Professor Lungwangwa. I want to thank him for one thing. At least, for the first time in the history of the MMD Government, he managed to construct six schools in my constituency last year.

In addition, last year, I had an audience with him and asked him to visit the dilapidated Mulakupikwa College in Chinsali and he did. He saw the place and I am sure that it is from that visit that these pronouncements we are getting now that the school will be rehabilitated began. For that, again, I want to thank him. I know that he is not working alone. He has a very committed team in his ministry. He has a powerful Permanent Secretary, Mrs Kapulu, and, in the province, he has a very powerful Provincial Education Officer, Mr C. Chanda, who is a very hardworking man. I like him.

Mr Speaker, I also want to commend the former minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Masebo. This is because the people of Chinsali, today, are able to see a brand new eight horse power tractor moving on the soil of Chinsali.

Laughter

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, for the first time since the MMD came into power, Chinsali has a tractor. Before I became hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali, Chinsali District Council had no vehicle. However, today, it has about five vehicles. I cannot keep quiet, but must say the truth. All I can say to her is, “May God bless you.” The people of Chinsali were very happy with your performance.

Sir, I am sad to report that Chinsali District Council was suspended immediately the hon. Minister left office. This suspension was as a result of differences between the Council Chairman and the current hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. Therefore, I appeal to the current hon. Minister, Hon. Tetamashimba, to lift this suspension so that, as a council, we can continue developing the district. As you may be aware, Chinsali District is among the districts that have been lagging behind in development.

Mr Speaker, let me now address the Budget. Personally, I find it generally uninspiring. I know that people may wonder why I say so, considering that K5 billion has been allocated to the Mulakupikwa College in my constituency.

Sir, the Budget has not tackled the poverty levels in this country adequately. As an hon. Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, I know how much people are suffering in the rural areas. There is no doubt that this country has very high poverty levels. There is need, therefore, for all of us to stop being petty and work together to come up with a lasting solution to the problem of poverty.

Mr Speaker, about 65 per cent of the 12 million Zambians are poor. This is particularly so for those in the rural areas. This means that about 8 million people are surviving on less than half a dollar a day.  This is quite serious because many people are dying.

Mr Speaker, I do not have proper statistics, but I am sure that the mortality rate is going up everyday. In fact, it should be in the range of 100 to 150 people dying everyday. Based on those statistics, which I do not have at the moment, …

Laughter

Ms Cifire: You are lying to us!

Reverend Nyirongo: You are speculating!

Mr C. Mulenga: … I assume that about 4,500 people are dying on a monthly basis.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

If the hon. Member has no statistics, he should not make them up here. This House deals with facts and figures.

Mr C. Mulenga: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance.

Sir, I was trying to say that many people are dying due to hunger. They are dying because they do not have food in their homes.

Hon. Magande: That is not true.

Mr C. Mulenga: They do not have food because they cannot grow enough food and they cannot grow enough food because the MMD Government has not provided them with the necessary inputs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: That is why I always talk about NCZ. I know that farming using fertiliser is not the only way to farm in Zambia. However, fertiliser is an important component in farming.  I am concerned because the price of fertiliser in this country is too high.

Hon. Member: Voka mudala!

Mr C. Mulenga: Fertiliser is so expensive that the people in the villages fail to acquire it. Mr Speaker, even when the fertiliser is available, there is a lot of segregation in its distribution.

Sir, I can give you an example of what happened during the 2008/2009 farming season. We requested for 50,000 bags of fertiliser in Chinsali, according to the number of farmers that we have.  However, we only received 16,000 bags which included D-compound and top dressing fertiliser. As a result, we do not anticipate a good yield this year in Chinsali because most of the people did not receive the fertiliser.

Mr Speaker, our neighbours in Isoka received over 30,000 bags of fertiliser.

Mr Sichamba: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. PF Member: Iwe, ikala.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I got this figure from the hon. Member for Isoka when he debated yesterday.

Laughter

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, he mentioned, in his debate, that Isoka received 30,000 bags of fertiliser.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: That is why I am saying that there is a lot of segregation in the distribution of farming inputs.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to mislead the House that Chinsali grows more food than Isoka when Isoka District is and has been the grain basket for the Northern Province for so many years? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Isoka West is informing the hon. Member for Chinsali why Isoka West received more fertiliser than Chinsali. According to the hon. Member, Isoka is the grain basket of that area. The hon. Member is free to debate and comment on that challenge.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga:  Mr Speaker, I merely made a comparison. However, I was driving at the point that the MMD Government has ignored important programmes which they came up with. Some of these are very good programmes, but they have failed to implement them.

I can mention some of them. They came up with the Social Cash Transfer under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. Mr Speaker, this is a very good programme, as evidenced by the pilot project that was conducted. It was shown that people could survive on this programme. However, what do we see in the Budget? A very small amount has been allocated to this ministry and it will be very difficult for the ministry to carry out this programme.

Mr Speaker, the other programme is the FSP. This is a very important programme, but like many hon. Members of Parliament have already said, it has been poorly implemented because civil servants have been allowed to benefit from the inputs supplied under this programme. This has contributed to its failure because this programme was meant for farmers who cannot afford to buy fertiliser at exorbitant prices.  However, civil servants have hijacked the programme and, as a result, it has failed.

Mr Speaker, the other reason for the failure of this programme is the poor input distribution system. In rural areas, the only person who knows who a real farmer is in a village is the village headman or chief. However, the responsibility of identifying farmers has been given to the so-called district agricultural co-ordinators (DACOs) who cannot know who is lazy in a particular village. Therefore, I am appealing to the Government to involve traditional rulers in the distribution of fertiliser. The same applies to the food security pack programme. This is another good programme which has failed to make an impact with regard to poverty reduction.

Mr Speaker, there is also the Citizens Economic Empowerment (CEE) programme. This is a very good programme and if implemented well, it can reduce poverty. However, we cannot see anything tangible coming out of this programme. I am holding an application form for the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF). The conditions for one to apply for these funds are very rigid. It is very difficult for a villager to fill in the application form and meet the conditions required. It has about thirty-five requirements which include cash flow, gross margin, net margin, current ratio, debtors’ debts, creditors’ debts …

Interruptions

Mr C. Mulenga: … and other complicated things that villagers cannot deal with. These conditions need to be met even where somebody requires to borrow only K2 million. The application form that I have is meant for amounts ranging from 1n to K50 million. It is difficult for a villager from a village about 1,000 kilometres from Lusaka to understand this form and access the funds. I know that this is a very good programme, but it can only be understood by the person who designed it. It is very difficult to reduce poverty …

Mr Lubinda: Lay it on the Table.

Mr C. Mulenga: I will lay it on the Table of the House after I finish debating.

 Mr Speaker, the Budget should have concentrated on the programmes that I have just mentioned because these affect the people directly and help reduce poverty levels in this country.

Mr Speaker, CDF is one of the very important programmes that reach the people directly.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: If you are to repair a school or buy hammer mills in the constituency, you need to use CDF. This money can easily reduce the hunger situation in the country. Therefore, I would like to add my voice to the many voices that have demanded that CDF be increased to more than K1 billion this year. Otherwise, we will not pass the Budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: We will not pass the Budget until the hon. Minister comes up with an amendment to increase CDF.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 6th February, 2009.