DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 22nd October, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

LAND GIVEN TO LEGACY HOLDINGS COMPANY

145. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Lands:

(a) what the total hectarage of land given to Legacy Holdings Company along the Lusaka-Kafue road near Baobab College was;

(b) whether the company had used the land for the intended purpose; and

(c) whether a land audit had been done on the area above.

Mr Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, the company has not yet used the land for the intended purpose.

Interruptions

Mr Mabenga: I am answering part (b) of the question and will come back to part (a) later.

Mr Speaker, this piece of land does not need an audit because the Ministry of Lands already knows its actual size, location and ownership. However, the ministry has carried out inspections on the land to ensure there is compliance with the lease agreement. The total hectarage of land given to Legacy Holdings Company along the Lusaka/Kafue road near Baobab College is 189.516 hectares.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell this House the time stipulated, by law, in which someone is supposed to develop acquired land.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, it is very clear that it is eighteen months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that the hon. Minister has given, I would like to find out whether the ministry intends to repossess the land because in March, this year, the then Minister of Lands, Hon. Mukuma, issued an ultimatum of three months for Legacy Holdings Company to utilise the land otherwise it would be repossessed. What is happening regarding that ultimatum?

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, the expiry period has been effected and Legacy Holdings Company has been informed that the Government is repossessing the land. However, I would like to explain that after this had been done, Mr Vanbeck went back to court to appeal against the judgment made. Otherwise, the State is repossessing that land.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether all the legal procedures were followed before the allocation of the land in question to Legacy Holdings Company.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, all steps were followed. Legacy Holdings Company was only given the hectarage that it requested. The other part of land in the area was left for other developments.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, may I know from the hon. Minister how it is possible that certain developments are now being undertaken on a piece of land which is under appeal.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, if there are any developments taking place then that is without our knowledge. I, however, want to say that the Government has taken steps to repossess this land because Legacy Holdings Company has not complied with the conditions of the lease agreement. It wanted to begin selling the land in pieces, but we moved in very quickly to repossess it. Plots were going at about US$50,000 per 300 hectares and so forth. Therefore, we moved in very quickly and I am sure we should be commended for that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I am concerned with the use of word the “given”, which is in the question and which the hon. Minister himself has used by saying, “land given to Legacy Holdings Company.” Are we right to conclude that land worth tens of thousands of dollars an acre is actually being given away to developers, in which case, could I, please, have a plot in Cairo or Chachacha roads free of charge?

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, that is now a question of language use, but what is true is that land is given to a person on application. Once a person has fulfilled all the conditions of application, land is then given to them. Therefore, it does not matter whether we say offer, give or allocate because they are all basically the same.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, may I know from the hon. Minister how much money Legacy Holdings Company paid the Ministry of Lands for this land.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, it is the stipulated amount of money that any applicant pays …

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr Mabenga: … according to the hectarage being applied for. If the hon. Member wants to know the actual amount, we are ready to come and give this information to the House at a later stage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwamba: Nishinga?

Mr Mabenga: You cannot ask nishinga when we have said that we will come with this information later.  That is the answer …

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: … if you do understand English.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister of Lands be very categorical with this august House. Who are the unscrupulous people that own this business entity called Legacy Holdings Company?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member will withdraw the word ‘unscrupulous’ because you are unaware of the owners of this company.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I will withdraw the word ‘unscrupulous’ and substitute it with ‘unreasonable.’

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Lands (Mr Daka): Mr Speaker, the owners of Legacy Holdings Company are the people that developed Sandton City in South Africa and, therefore, can not be called unscrupulous.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, for the sake of history, may the hon. Minister tell this House why the Government preferred to offer this land to Legacy Holdings Company when the Lusaka City Council (LCC) had advertised it for allocation to Zambians. Since it is now being repossessed, will this land be handed back to the LCC for it to be allocated to Zambians?

The Minister of Lands (Mr Daka): Mr Speaker, the LCC is an agent of the Ministry of Lands. When it administers land, it does that on behalf of the Ministry of Lands. It is saddening, today, to note that the hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central, who has given …

Hon. Opposition Members: Bauleni?

Mr Daka: …  sixteen plots to his councilor, eight plots to the mayor and three plots to his driver, is questioning the kind of investment on this land in question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! Was that reference to the hon. Member Lusaka Central inadvertent or direct?

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, it was inadvertent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I would like to know why this land in question was not advertised. If it was, what was the criterion used to allocate it to Legacy Holdings?

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, this was a farm plot which belonged to a farmer called Bluebeck. The ministry repossessed this land so that it could be given to an investor and it was advertised under the conditions of the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA).

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

THE RELEASE OF CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

146. Mrs Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning why Constituency Development Fund (CDF) money was normally not released on time.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, the National Budget has always been debated and approved by Parliament during the first quarter of the financial year. This makes it procedurally impossible to release capital funds, such as the CDF, prior to Budget approval by this honourable House. The hon. Members of Parliament are aware that before the Budget is approved, spending has always been restricted only to the current and routine operational activities through the use of the Provisional Warrant. This means that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has only been able to request for the CDF moneys in the second quarter of a given year. The Treasury has been releasing the funds on time, except in 2008 and 2009 when revenue shortfalls became very severe.

Secondly, the CDF is one of those programmes where budget releases cannot be made in small tranches to a few constituencies. This means that, in line with fairness and transparency, it makes practical sense to release the entire CDF allocation in full or at most, in two tranches to cover all the constituencies at once. However, since monthly revenues are collected in smaller tranches, it becomes practically difficult to handle large budget items such as the CDF in the first half of the year before the commencement of donor fund inflows which relieve the revenue pressure on the Treasury. However, in the second half of the year, the time during which most of the donor funds are usually received by the Government, there is some fiscal room for releasing funds to most large budget items such as the CDF.

Further, the Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, has some regulations in place which also have an influence on the timing of the release of the CDF. For instance, expenditure returns and audit reports on the use of the previous funds are supposed to be submitted to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing as a pre-condition requirement for releasing the next CDF moneys.

Nonetheless, even if the CDF has usually been released in the second half of the year, the hon. Members of Parliament can take comfort in the fact that the Treasury does not recall the unspent budget balances back to the Treasury Account by the end of the fiscal year as is the case with all other public funds. Since the unspent CDF moneys are allowed to be carried forward into the following financial year, hon. Members of Parliament will still continue to implement activities in the constituencies using the CDF moneys received from previous years.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: You may wish to know, hon. Minister, since you were busy reading, that nobody was interested in what you were saying. The hon. Members were busy talking. Therefore, no follow-up questions will be asked because they were busy talking. Let us hear from those who were listening.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if he is aware that this is the only fund from the Government that is reaching the poor of the poorest in this country. If he is aware, what punitive measures is he putting in place to see to it that this fund is released on time?

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the CDF is one, but not the only source of funding that affects the poor people. There are small-scale farmers out there who need support in form of fertiliser and that kind of support is given to them. There are also farmers who sale maize with the support of the Government and that is also another form of the Government’s support to poor people and, of course, there are other programmes.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Deputy Minister has explained, this money arrives in reasonably good time for work to be undertaken, and, indeed, the money is never withdrawn. It is always available to be utilised provided, of course, that hon. Members utilise the money in the manner described by law.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister informed this House that the money is normally released in the second quarter. Since the Budget Cycle has changed, would the hon. Minister then confirm to this House that the CDF will be released in the first quarter.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I cannot make such an undertaking and the reason being that throughout the year, there are many important activities that require funding. These include the CDF, but not exclusively it. Therefore, we can make a commitment that the CDF will always be released in reasonable time, but not to make a commitment such as the one the hon. Member has suggested.

I thank you, Sir.

LUMINU FARM BLOCK

147. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) how many people were employed as casual workers at Luminu Farm Block for the disabled in the 2007/2008 farming season;

(b) how much money was owed, in form of salaries; to the employees at the farm;

(c) when the outstanding arrears would be settled; and

(d) who authorised the employment of the casual workers.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, forty people were employed as casual workers at the Luminu Farm Centre in the 2007/2008 farming season.

Mr Speaker, the above mentioned casual workers are owed a total of K24 million in salaries.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Agency for People Living with Disabilities (ZAPD) will pay the casual workers their arrears before the end of 2009.

Mr Speeaker, the employment of all the casual workers was done through the office of the ZAPD provincial co-ordinator for Luapula Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the Luminu Farm Block is in my constituency. When the casual workers were being employed by the provincial ZAPD office, there was no authority given by the headquarters. What action has the ministry taken against the officer who employed the casual workers illegally?

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chipili for raising that question. It is true that no authority was given to the provincial co-ordinator to employ the casual workers. However, because the cost has already been incurred, ZAPD, through its Director-General, has normalised the authority to employ. Now that the authority has been given, the casual workers will be employed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. : Mr Speaker, are these farm blocks on title? If they are, in whose name are they? If they are not, does the Government intend to transfer these farm blocks to ZAPD?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there are seventeen farm blocks. It is tricky for me to say all of them are on title, but I know that most of them are on title with ZAPD.

I thank you, Sir.

________________

MOTION

BUDGET 2009

(Debate resumed)

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, in debating the Budget, I would like to draw your attention to what I said when I debated the President’s Speech. As a result of the policy direction in the President’s Speech on which the Budget was going to be anchored, I saw nothing coming.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: As rightly put by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, there was nothing new he brought to the House except increasing, in numerical terms, the number of the word “diversification” from thirteen to fourteen.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: That was the only new thing he brought before the House as a sign of progress. Even when they were thirteen words, we saw nothing in terms of diversification. The increase by one word does not give anybody any hope. Maybe, if he had increased to twenty-six or twenty-eight words because from January to date, the thirteen words have meant nothing. The word has been mentioned fourteen times for programmes from January to December. What does this mean?

Now, let me talk about the energy sector. The situation in our energy sector leaves much to be desired.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, no amount of apologies, coming from the Head of State, will help this country. The President apologised yesterday, but people have continued queuing up today. We know very well that the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development told us certain things that the Head of State said were falsehoods.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: This is the tragedy of leadership failure. Fuel has constantly run out, but the hon. Minister said tankers are rolling in.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Syakalima: For example, one tanker will roll in at a filling station and within two minutes, petrol will finish. Now, I want to demonstrate to you how incompetent this Government is.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, we consume on average 700,000 litres of petrol everyday. This means each Zambian per capita income consumes 0.05 litres.

Hon. Opposition Member:  A cup of tea.

Mr Syakalima: It is less than a cup of tea. I tried to do some arithmetic by raising it to 50 millilitres which translates into seventeen teaspoons.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: These are realities. Now, the Government is failing to give each Zambian seventeen teaspoons of fuel everyday.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: How can you run a country like that? Where are the strategic reserves that we are talking about? This issue started a long time ago and is now in the fifth year. As a result of poor management, the Government has found itself in such a crisis. The country has been plunged into chaos. Do you know what it means to queue up for fuel everyday? How many man hours are being lost? Do you not think this is money?

When you put all these things together, production is zero in this country. You know very well that you have a Budget that is on sinking sand.

 Do you know how many people have died as a result of the shortage of fuel?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Ambulances are stuck in queues for fuel, children are unable to go to school and farmers are not tiling their land. Everything has come to a stand still.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: You do not run a country like this. In other countries, there are reserves to run for one hundred years. In Zambia, there are no reserves even for two seconds.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear! Hear!

Mr Syakalima:  What are you doing? Where are you?

Mr Speaker, this is very serious because, as I speak, the fabric of this Budget is being eaten up. If we are not going to do anything serious, fourteen days down the line, apart from the Head of State saying, “I have directed this one and that one”, then we are going to have an even bigger problem. The other time, the hon. Minister said that a Statutory Instrument had already been signed. We only heard about it yesterday, but the Head of State said that he had given directives.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Member: Konga!

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair wants to hear only from the hon. Member for Siavonga and nobody else.

The hon. Member for Siavonga may continue.

Mr Syakalima:  Mr Speaker, I hope our colleagues are listening. I hope you are also exercising your mental fermentation.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima:  The way things are, one must not just see things at face value, but get into the situation. You must know that the person who is supposed to run the industry is stuck for twelve hours in the queue for fuel and that the ambulance which is not moving was supposed to take an emergency case to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). The same stories of people giving birth in ambulances are recurring.

These are the things that you must you feel. Be inside the situation. I see the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development laughing.

Mr Konga: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, this Budget, from January to December, 2010, is a disaster.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: I warn again. I said I wanted to hear only from the hon. Member for Siavonga. May he continue, please.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, as if that were not enough, the budget for the Ministry of Health has been cut. Who do you want to rule if you want people to die. I heard somebody say that they had increased the allocation to education from 17 to 19 per cent. Do not just look at numbers. That is still not enough. Even if the allocation to education is more than that of any other sector, it is still not enough. We must calculate against the gross domestic product (GDP). Last year, the share for GDP was 3.1 per cent. This year, the increase is 3.9 per cent. That falls below any Southern African country in terms of the share of the GDP to education. All of them have a GDP of above 5 per cent. Even with that, we are still grappling with an inflation rate of 14 per cent. Therefore, our Budget is still nothing.

This Budget in real GDP terms has shrunk. It is even smaller when you factor in inflation. I will be told that the resource envelop is small, but the Government has to look for money. That is its duty.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima:  You have been singing that the informal sector is not taxed and that only a few people are taxed. Look for money so that the Budget can grow. We tried to tell you where you could get money, but you came back and said you did not want to get enough money from the mines. Were we not pleading with you here? Today, you want to say that the resource envelope is too small.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member will address the Chair. Do not address the other hon. Members.

Mr Syakalima:  Mr Speaker, I was saying that these people here,  …

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: … some of us even debated to make sure that we appealed to their emotions. It could not work. We told them, at that time, that the way these conglomerates worked was that they usually knew the trends in their sectors and wanted to ambush the Government. They knew that the copper prices were going to be rise. Therefore, you, as a Government, must have a predicting mind as well.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Syakalima: If we had left the Windfall Tax in place, things were just going to fall into place. Now, maybe, you are embarrassed to come back to Parliament to reintroduce the tax. Just bring it back here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: There is nothing like being embarrassed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: We want money.

Mr Syakalima: An incompetent person should never feel embarrassed. If you want to increase the resource envelope, do something about it in order for us to appreciate. In any case, we do not even know where the few moneys which where collected have been taken because this year’s Budget does not reflect it anywhere, unless I have not seen it.

Mr Kambwili: Kuma sciences.

Mr Syakalima: When you come to defend yourselves, I do not want to hear anything about the resource envelop being small. Otherwise, get out of power so that we, who know where the envelop and the resources are, can run the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima:  We cannot sing the same song seventeen years down the line of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy’s (MMD) governance. In 2011, the MMD Government would have been in power for twenty years, but it is still singing the same song of the resource envelop being small. You were elected to make the resource envelop big. Look at them looking like an envelop without a letter inside.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulyata: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Siavonga in order to say that we look like envelops …

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: … that do not have letters in them, when he knows that there is no envelop here and that we are all human beings?

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Is he in order to mislead this House and the nation, at large, that human beings have started looking like envelopes? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My serious ruling on the point of order raised by the hon. Deputy Minister for the North-Western Province is that the hon. Member debating is doing everything possible to discredit your Budget.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I mean the National Budget and not your budget. When you take the Floor to debate, make every effort to also discredit his debate ...

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … so that you tell the people how beautiful and helpful your National Budget is. From that point of order, you are telling this House that you do not want him to get away with it, but you have to debate and counter debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Long live the Chair!

Mr Syakalima: Sir, I wait to see how somebody is going to permeate the facts that I am putting across today. These are very serious issues.

I said earlier that the problem we have in this country is that the governance system has been irreparably damaged.

 

The governance system has been damaged irreparably and this is what we call systems failure.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: If you were in hospital, the doctors could have said the systems have ceased. This is the extent our Government system has reached. There is systems failure. The entire governance system is non existent. It has collapsed irreparably.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: We need to have very serious people in governance. When I went through the Yellow Book and Budget Speech, I felt that if I were Dr Musokotwane, maybe, I could have behaved the same way in preparing when the Budget. Dr Musokotwane was not going to appear any cleverer in his speech than the President’s Speech. The Budget Speech had to revolve around the President’s Speech.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: He could not go outside the President’s Speech. The only thing that some of us can do, is just pity him …

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: … but because he is inside there, we shall not feel very sorry.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: He must do the work with his Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The people in the Government must do their work. Otherwise, things will not be fine for them. In fact, give me a chance to also predict.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima:  There are worse things than we are seeing now yet to come.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: If this Government is kept unchecked …

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: … and remains in power till 2011, this country will be in maningi trouble.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: I would like to join my colleague who was saying …

Mr Speaker: Order!

What is maningi?

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: It means a lot.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: We will be in worse situations. Therefore, I would like to challenge the Government to resign. In Italy, when governments fail, they resign.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: This is the surest way of a government that is on its way out, but just to clean its face it should resign rather than wait to be booted out in 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Yesterday, I heard somebody say that some people will be escorting others to State House. Nothing of that sort will happen again. The Patriotic Front (PF) and United Party for National Development (UPND) have been escorting the MMD to State House since 2001.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The Zambians have never ever wanted the MMD Government to be in power. We win elections, but they govern.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The Zambians are now saying that they want the PF and UPND together to go to State House …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … and control things there. Therefore, nobody is escorting anyone and we have refused to escort you.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, this is why you are seeing many people getting annoyed. The other day, somebody saw two presidents at the celebrations of the birth of a child. Then he started questioning that. How many of you do not celebrate the birth of a child?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Therefore, if the PF and UPND were happy that my brother, Hon. G. B Mwamba, won the by-election, why should they not celebrate?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: To borrow Hon. Mpombo’s words, we shall use all political artilleries, surface to surface political missiles …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … to ensure that this Government, which is now punishing Zambians to just get seventeen teaspoons of petrol, is out.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: If it does not want to be embarrassed, it must start packing its bags now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Let us go and look for our mandate first because the Government has dangerously failed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, I would like to reiterate what I have already said. The hon. Members on your right should put themselves in the position of that woman who the ambulance could not take to a clinic or hospital to deliver. They should think of Zambians who like to work for eight hours; from 0800hours in the morning to 1700hours, hoping to get nothing at the end of the month, but still want to go and work, and yet there is no fuel. Put yourselves in that position. When you imbue yourself there, you will appreciate how painful that can be.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion before this House.  I noticed that my brother, the hon. Member for Siavonga, was very hot so I will try to be cool.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I would like to start by stating that a budget is a plan. The figures in the budget are estimates, but at the end of the day, what is important is how much of that plan can be implemented.

The theme of this year’s Budget is the same as last year’s. I believe that the Government realised that we did not achieve much from the 2009 Budget objectives. Therefore, we must continue with the theme because it is the right theme, looking at our country and economy.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has come up with some targets on the micro economic front and I want to briefly comment on those targets.

The first target is about growing the economy by 5 per cent. This seems achievable, but in my view, it is too low to have any impact on the majority of our people. I hope that, as we go along, we can exceed that 5 per cent.

Mr Kambwili: How?

Mrs Masebo: Well, that depends on the other factors that have been put in the Budget. The hon. Minister is talking about competitiveness and diversification, which is good, but when you look through the whole Budget Speech, this raises some concerns. You can only be competitive if the major production inputs are cost effective.

In this case, the hon. Minister has proposed a 3 per cent Exercise Duty on fuel and I believe that fuels and electricity are the major production inputs. If we increase the cost of fuel by 3 per cent, how do we make our businesses competitive? How can Zambia become competitive because we are bringing policies that have a direct impact on the cost of agriculture production which uses a lot of diesel to transport crops and livestock? This increase cuts across all the sectors.

The hon. Minister has also proposed measures in terms of land rates. When you look at the issue of land, you will notice that it has an impact on the costs. Therefore, if your land is expensive, then how do you become competitive? Yes, the theme is appropriate. It is also important to make the country competitive, but which factors are we using to increase our revenue? Now, if we use factors such as fuel and electricity, then we are not going to make ourselves competitive.

Mr Speaker, this brings me to the issue of raising revenue. We are quarrelling on account of the fact that there is not enough money allocated to health and agriculture. Of course, this problem will always be there. However, the biggest problem that we have is on the revenue side. In this whole Budget, you will find that we have continued to heavily levy the few people in the formal sector. Very little effort has been made to capture the informal sector. It is as if we are more comfortable to only levy the people who are obedient to the rules and regulations of the country.

Hon. Opposition Member: Tell them.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, we have been told that, in Zambia, we have a factor economy which depends on natural resources such as copper, and yet in this Budget, we continuously sound apologetic to the mining sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We continue to give them rebates and all sorts of concessions at the expense of our own Budget then come here and begin to quarrel over little resources, instead of getting the resources where the real money is.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: It is very sad.

Mr Speaker, when my colleagues on the left debate on the issue of the windfall tax, they say “us on the left and those on the right,” however, I would like to inform them that even some us on the right …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: …are for the re-introduction of the windfall tax.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo:  Mr Speaker, this is the only source of revenue which can make a difference for us. You will recall how, two years ago, as the MMD Government, we suffered when the late President came to Parliament. I recall because he had to go on break to take some rest because he was making a very important pronouncement, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: …which had the support of everybody, including the hon. Members on your left. It is sad that within such a short time, before we could even get something out of it, we have made a u-turn, protecting the mines.

If we cannot be brave enough to get what is due to us from the mines, as a country, where are we going to get the revenue from to fund the health and agriculture sectors? I would like to make an earnest appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, on a serious note, to seriously begin considering the re-introduction of the windfall tax …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … because there is nowhere else you will get the money from.

If you recall, the time that we were introducing the windfall tax, even the donors who were funding us were in support. They told us that we had reached the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) completion point and we could get something from our own resources. I was a member of the committee tasked to study the windfall tax and I am aware that a lot of resources were spent for this purpose. How can you say that it is not feasible? All that money has just been thrown in the air. Do you mean to say that we are that dull to spend so much time …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … on something, only to be told that it is not feasible?

Mr Speaker, my observation on the windfall tax is simply that those who are in the mining business have done a good job in convincing the Government not to use the windfall tax because this way, they would have paid more money. They have convinced the Government to use a system of tax which they can easily manipulate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: No matter what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning says, variable tax is difficult to collect. We all know that we do not have the capacity developed for us to get any money through this form of tax.

When you look at this Budget, you will note that even the payments of the corporate tax are poor on account that we are failing to capture them. All we are told is that there has been a cost here and there. They have done this and that and re-invested in so and so, and, therefore, the only profit they have made, even as a limited company, is this much, to the extent that we are only getting 2 per cent from corporate tax compared to 4 per cent from the direct tax, which is Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE).

Mr Speaker, I would seriously like to ask the Executive to reconsider this issue of windfall tax.

Mr Muntanga: You are annoyed.

Mrs Masebo:  In any case, when the President came to this House, it was clear from what he said that he was concerned. He mentioned that it was a pity that where we should have been getting money from, we were not getting enough. That was his lamentation. Even the President knows that it the technocrats, experts and the hon. Minister and his team in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning who can assist this country to move forward and ensure that we get what we need from the mines.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, so much has been said about the budget allocation to the health sector. Indeed, we have seen a cut. However, I would like to commend the Government for increasing the domestic allocation to the health budget compared to the previous years’ allocations.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: This means that the Government realises that the health sector is important. The reduction that is being reflected, mainly 25 per cent and over, is the donor component. Looking at the way money has been littered, I think that it is the best they could do under the circumstances.

I, however, want to say that it is a pity that this is happening in a sector where this country has had a good name internationally. The Ministry of Health has done so well with health programmes in the last seven plus years, to the extent that Zambia is celebrated in most of the international conferences as far as health programmes are concerned; be it malaria or immunisation programmes. It is very sad that because of the misappropriation of resources and corruption issues, we are beginning to get a bad name in the health sector.

The effects of this are already being seen. Let us not even pretend about it. The Government should not pretend about it. Currently, things in the health sector are bad as a result of what happened in the Ministry of Health. Even when the Government has been seen to be making efforts to ensure that the cases are taken to court, we have heard the hon. Minister say that the donors are not coming forward. The Government must ask themselves what the problem is because the donors have always been very supportive, especially in the health sector. This is one sector where we have had a lot of support.

I want to believe that there are many other issues than the Kapoko one.
 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I think that this Government should begin to look beyond the Kapoko issue or the misappropriation …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You will not mention that name in here. This matter is in the courts.

Mrs Masebo: I thank you, Sir, for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, the alleged misapplication of resources in the Ministry of Health cannot be the only reasons the donors, even after reaching agreements with the Government, are withholding their support. I want to believe that there may be other governance issues and the Government must begin to search itself and ask how well we are doing on issues of corruption, gender equality and equitable sharing of the national resources. It should also ask itself what the political situation in the country is like. All these are issues which foreign governments look at. You will start noticing their reactions when you want financial support from them. When they are happy with you, they actually force you to get money from them. When they are not happy, you will sit here with their junior staff while their governments send you a different story. Every time they shift their goal post, it may be because of another issue. It could even be issues of these acquittals.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Masebo:  All these issues could play a role, together with how we are addressing them. Therefore, the Government should not just look at one direction of the misappropriation of resources in the Ministry of Health and say that it has done its part with the first phase, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said. He said that the Government had met the benchmarks, and, therefore, it was up to the donors to respond. It is becoming clear that there is a lot more than meets the eye.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 
Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the issue of grain levy is a very serious one.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Therefore, I would like to advise that in the 2011 Budget, the Government reverses the decision that it made because this decision is going to cripple the local authorities. It is also going to cripple rural districts as well.

Mr Speaker, I know that the hon. Minister came here and said that these were unfair and unpopular grain levies. He also said that the Government had since increased its grants to councils. What increase are you talking about? You have only increased the grants budget by K19 billion. Like somebody said, if you take the 14 per cent of inflation, that K19 billion is meaningless. Even if there was no inflation, all you do with that K19 billion is to divide it among fifty-four district councils and ask yourselves how much each council is going to get. It will be something like K200 million or K300 million.

Mr Speaker, I want to give an example of the Chongwe District Council in as far as crop levies are concerned. 37 per cent of Chongwe District’s budget is from crop levies. Last year, we collected about K1.2 billion. This year, we were targeting K1.6 billion. You are saying that you are going to give us K300 million from the money grants to the councils that you claim to have increased. Obviously, it means that Chongwe has lost out because it will lose over K700 million. If we are going to lose over K700 million, are you going to help us?

Mr Speaker, you will notice that in the past three to four years, there has been some stability in the local government system despite the problems that it has faced. Now, I see us going back to the problems of 1991 and 1992, where we are now going to have strikes by workers at almost all councils. I see us hearing stories of unpaid salaries even for those councils that will be supported. We are going to go back to square one because of the same problem.

Sir, I am aware that there could be some people that may have misinformed the hon. Minister to make him think that, through this move, he is supporting the farmers. In fact, let me tell you that even from a political point of view, we have politically shot ourselves in the foot.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is only the peasant farmers that are being supported. The crop levy was being charged on grain which was leaving a particular district. There was no fine for a small-scale farmer selling his ten bags within Chongwe District unless that farmer wanted to take his bags out of Chongwe for sale to the millers. In fact, the people that have been supported are the big commercial farmers and milling companies. We are privileged to have Hon. Godfrey Bwalya Mwamba who should tell you that it is people like him who are already rich that are being protected and not a peasant farmer in Chishengula Village. There is nothing like that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: You have heard people from certain associations say that this is a good decision, however, I want to tell you that it is not. It is a bad decision. Let me tell you that politically, councils are very unhappy. Do not be cheated by one councillor who has managed to convince you that this is good decision which will please the people. I wish to urge you to give back the councils their sources of revenue. Decentralisation should not just be a matter that we should just be talking about every day, and yet we do something else.

Mr Speaker, I know that the education sector has gotten a good boost considering that it is at 19.9 per cent. I am also aware that the International Declaration could be 20 per cent, although I know that in the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), we are targeting 22 per cent.

Mr Speaker, to that effect, I just want to commend the Government for ensuring that there are enough resources in the education sector. The only problem I see with a number of these so-called increases is that there are not in form of investments in those sectors. You would find that most of the money will go towards salaries and wages.

Mr Speaker, I see that most of the money in our Budget goes towards administration, salaries and wages. Last time, His Excellency the President, Mr Banda, talked about the Salaries Commission. I was hoping that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning would say something about it in his speech.

Mr Speaker, in this country, we have a problem in as far as the salary structure is concerned. There is something wrong with it. It does not matter whether the people on your right or left continue to be in Government, the point is that we have a structural problem with our Government. So much money is being spent on salaries and administration. Just this morning, somebody told us that we were spending 32 per cent just on running the Government, which means that it is so big. Yet, we are supposed to be at something like 15 per cent.

 Mr Speaker, you cannot have a Budget that is about salaries and conditions of service, but nothing to do with investments, and yet you expect the economy to grow. How? It cannot. Therefore, we need to do so much in as far as administrative costs are concerned in running our Government. This runs down even to local the government system. You would find that 60 to 70 per cent of the budgets in some councils is all for salaries, and yet these wages are not even…

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for his opportunity.

Sir, I want to begin by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a Budget well presented.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I want to extend my congratulations to the ministry’s technocrats who have done a very good job in preparing the Budget in difficult circumstances. The Budget we are discussing now should have been presented and discussed in January, 2010. This time they were supposed to have been gathering information, but they were put to a test and have produced a budget that each one of us is very happy to look at.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I also want to congratulate ourselves, as hon. Members, for having brought forward the budget timetable which has made it possible for us to discuss the 2010 Budget this year.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am sure this will result into us seeing a quick response in our deliverables and accomplishments. This will also be a lot of fun for some of us who are implementing the Budget and will bring a lot of satisfaction to a lot of people.

Mr Speaker, this Budget is a model for the country to follow. It is a pity that some of people see nothing in it, and yet it even has laid down activities.

Sir, for instance, on page 14 under the agricultural sector, it says that the Government has doubled the beneficiaries for the Farmers Support Input Programme from 220,000 peasant farmers to 534,000 farmers.

 Hon. Government members: Hear hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this is real sharing of the cake. For the past seven years, only 220,000 farmers have been benefiting from this big cake, but now, we have more farmers who will benefit.

 Mr Speaker, some people might not understand this saying, but in our language we say, “uwatensha akanwa tafwa kunsala.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Sir, some people want to just continue eating alone. They do not want to share.

 Laughter

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, our understanding is that with four bags of fertilizer and 10 kilograms of seed and, all being equal, a farmer will harvest a minimum of forty bags of 50 kilogram bags of maize and a maximum of eighty bags of 50 kilograms of maize.

Sir, if there are forty bags and you take away twenty bags for his consumption and allow him to sell twenty bags for other necessities, if these bags are sold at the present price, which is K65,000 per bag, the farmer will get K1,300,000 per year. If you take away what is spent which is K200,000, he will remain with K1,100,000 profit for the whole year.

Mr Speaker, that is where the problem arises. How do you tax a person with that kind of income?

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Simbao: In whatever form you want it to be, how do you tax a person with this kind of income per year? How and what for? How greedy can you be for you to want this person to support you?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: A person only earns K1 million per year and you want him to pay something from that money. What kind of person are you?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in this Parliament, we have agreed that we are not going to tax anyone earning K9 million per year. That is what we have said. However, some people want us to tax someone who earns K1 million per year. What kind of people are you?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: Look at them!

Mr Simbao: Sir, having a very big heart, this Government does not wish to deprive a person with this kind of income. We have decided in the interest of the majority of the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: If this is how we are going to run the Government by taking away the little that the people have, then we have a problem.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: If that is how they are going to treat the poor of poorest, I wish those who want to come into Government all the best.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, on the other hand, if 534,000 farmers …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simbao: … produced a minimum of forty bags and sold twenty bags to the  Government, it will realise 535,000 metric tonnes. That is the minimum we can get from such a system. However, if we were fortunate that everyone produced 80,000 bags out of which they would sell sixty bags, the Government would get 3,000,000 bags, which would come to 1,600,000 metric tonnes. Now, in this country, the whole consumption per year is about 1,700 000 metric tonnes and so, just the peasant farmers alone out of this system, would feed this country.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: When you add other farmers like the commercial farmers, the food they would produce would be surplus to this nation’s requirements.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are confident that we are able to reach such levels of production.

Sir, on page 16 of the Budget Speech, the Government gives its vision on tourism in the Northern Province. This is a breakthrough because, for a long time, this area has not received a lot of attention and the reason was that Livingstone was being improved upon as the ideal tourist destination. Due to the scarcity of funds, the Northern Circuit could not be worked on at the same time as Livingston. However, now is the time. The entire Government focus is beamed on the Northern Circuit. The Government will turn this area into another popular tourism destination.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: In 2009, the Government allocated and released in full K50 billion and, this year, the Government has allocated K90 billion. Mr Speaker, even though I am a government official, I am proud to say that I come from the Northern Province. If we support Government efforts for this area, the area, alone, will double the money realised from tourism. It is one area that has one of the most spectacular scenes in this world. The Kalambo Falls is one of the best gorges you can ever see anywhere.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: We have other places like the Lumangwe Falls, Kabwelume Falls and Chishimba Falls. This province is a marvel! This Government has decided to go into the Northern Province …

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … and we are going to see wonders.

Mr Speaker, I can go on and on.

On page 17, the Budget Speech looks at Chambeshi on the Copperbelt where we are going to put up a multi-facility economic zone (MFEZ) and we are already seeing activity in that place. That place is going to provide employment for thousands and thousands of workers. No one should be worried that the entire Copperbelt will turn into a ghost province. No one should be worried. We have seen what has happened to Ndola. I grew up there and it is saddening to look at what happened to it. Now, this Government has realised that if it does not plan seriously for development on the Copperbelt, everything there will go to waste. Fortunately, Chambeshi has come to life. We will see a lot of people doing business there. It will become the hub of business in the country. We have realised we can only make wealth if we attract investment. People have to be ready to invest anywhere, whether it is in China or Japan.

Mr Speaker, at one time, I got surprised when I heard that when Mitsubishi was in trouble, it was Benz that invested in that company and gave it a new lease of life. I was very surprised when I found out what happened because I did not know about it. I thought Mitsubishi was a purely Japanese investment when it actually was not. Most of us have travelled widely. Wherever you go, you will find investors. I am sorry I have to say this, I was in Thailand for some time in 1996 and I saw a lot of Americans in almost every company that I visited.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: You see that people take investments from their country to another country and that is what we need to attract here.

Mr Speaker, I can go on and on showing the treasures of the Budget, but I need to pause here and state that showing negativity towards the Budget is like committing sin.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: It is like doing things known to be wrong just for the fun of it or due to recklessness. Since sin is normally committed by equally negative people, it simply spreads like oil on cloth, …

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … stained deliberately.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: It will require a good stain remover to get rid of it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Those sowing the seeds of discontent will fall by the results of their discontentment. There is a wise saying, Mr Speaker, which is, “He, who lives by the sword will die by it,” and another one says, “You reap what you sow.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, these words are not empty.

Mr Mulyata: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Simbao: They are not empty.

Ms Lundwe: Repeat!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I now want to address the issue of health. It is true that the allocation to the health sector has reduced. This reduction, however, is only in the donor’s component since most of them have not pledged any money. In this regard, you may wish to note that most of the affected items are what we can term as less important programmes such as seminars, travelling and training. Certain programmes which were heavily funded by donors are currently being queried. The donors want to firstly build capacity. Now, these are the areas where people went and touched and removed what they were not supposed to. The donors have said that they are not going to fund these areas. However, they are still committed to the funding of areas that have to deal with life saving drugs. No donor has stopped funding the purchase of life saving drugs. Everything in this area will be funded as before.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I want to look at the general picture in health and I hope people can follow me.

For the Retention Scheme, we had K24 billion. 95 per cent of this was donor funded and Zambia only contributed 5 per cent. The reason is that, initially, this money was coming from user fees. So, when we were asked to drop user fees in the rural areas, the donors said they were going to replace that money. Basically, we were supposed to be funded the full 100 per cent, but they only funded us at 95 per cent. This year, the donors have not come forth and so, the Government has put K15 billion for this item. We hope that now from 5 per cent we have gone to over 60 per cent on this item.

On training institutions, the total in 2009 was K18 billion. With the donors giving us K12 billion and the Government putting in K6 billion, this year, the donors have not pledged anything and so we have put K17 billion in the budget. This is almost the whole amount. On district grants, the total was K193 billion last year. The donors put in K114 billion while the Government put in K80 billion and, this year, the donors have not pledged anything, but we have gone ahead to put in K140 billion, going close to 80 per cent of what we need.

 On infrastructure, the total, last year, was K170 billion, but the donors did not put in anything because they do not support infrastructure. This year, again, the donors are not supporting infrastructure, but we have put in K132 billion. On drugs, the total was K640 billion and this is inclusive of the actual drugs. The donors, in this regard, gave us K540 billion whilst we put in K100 billion. The donors are still committed to providing K440 billion although they have gone down by K100 billion, but we have put in K100 billion.

Mr Speaker, as can be seen from the figures, we tried hard to make up for the loss and if we work well and hard, the effect of this loss will not be felt by our people. This is possible with this Government.

Mr Speaker, on infrastructure, we will be very busy, this year, constructing hospitals, clinics and health posts. In Lusaka, alone, we have started constructing six hospitals. These are Chawama, Kanyama, Chilenje, Chipata, Matero and Chainama. We are also constructing a hospital in Lubuto in Ndola.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: These projects have all started and are expected to be completed next year. We are also constructing fifty maternity annexes at various clinics dotted all over the country in some of the hard-to-reach areas. The construction of these hospitals and maternity annexes will save a lot of lives.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are continuing with the construction of hospitals in sixteen districts with the addition of Nakonde this year. We want to increase this number to twenty next year so that we can cover some of the few districts which have no Government hospital. I would like to inform the nation that, as of today, all hospitals are Government supported, whether they are mission or Government. The grant is equal because there is no segregation. If it is a third level hospital, we give it exactly the same money we give to any third level hospital. There should be no argument that this is a mission hospital or a Government one because there is no segregation.

Mr Speaker, I would like to turn to some of the concerns raised by hon. Members. One concern was from Hon. Chota, who is not in the House at the moment. He made an astounding announcement that hospitals do not have the means to test urine. I was amazed by that statement and I really did not understand what he was talking about because there are about six tests that you take on urine. I do not know what he was talking about and I do not even know which hospital he went to. However, if he went to the laboratory at the University Teaching Hospital, it is the best in the world and it is properly stocked with reagents.

Mrs Phiri: They do not test urine during pregnancy tests.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we have thirty scientists and I challenge anyone here to go to any country and ask if they have a laboratory with thirty scientists who are degree holders. These are people who know what to do and they have the reagents and so I do not understand what he was talking about.

Hon. Member: He was full of tujilijili.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, there has been talk of drugs not being available in health centres. It is a shame that, in this House, we have hon. Members who just want to talk. I have requested them to come and prove me wrong on this issue by taking them where these drugs are stocked and handled, but I have not had a single person coming over to challenge me.

Mr Mukanga: Blankets!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is a pity that some hon. Members still talk about things which they recorded seven years ago. Those issues are still running in their minds, today, when things have changed.

Hon. Members: Shame!

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I will not answer to some running commentaries because I would not like to say something I do not want to say.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the issue of blankets is an issue which we seriously need to address. This issue has been taken to districts for planning, but we need to change that by bringing it to the centre.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to contribute to the Motion on the 2010 Budget.

Mr Speaker, I have said, on the Floor of this House, not once, but many times, that all Zambians are rich in the knowledge of budget formulation. They do it every month and, therefore, it would be wise for the Government to tap this vast experience by listening to every household.

Interruptions

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the 2010 Budget can be likened to a household budget in a bigger perspective. In a home, when you are making a budget, under the income column, you have to project what you will get in form of wages and salaries. If you have estates which you have rented out to other people, you also include those. If you intend to sell one of your houses, you also include it in the projection of how you are going to spend the money. If your children eat breakfast from your neighbour’s house, you also include that. If your wife gets salt from your neighbours, that should also be included.

Mr Speaker, when you quarrel with your neighbour and you anticipate that you can no longer get mealie-meal, or that your children can no longer eat from your neighbour’s house, you should adjust your budget. The head of a household who decides to sell one of the houses and does not include the members of the family in the negotiations of the sale is inviting trouble or a fight in the house, more so if that person decides to call…

Mr Speaker: Order! There shall be no parables in this House. The hon. Member should debate the Budget.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the 2010 Budget is no different from the household budget I am talking about. With the policy in place, Zambia gets almost nothing from the copper mining industry …

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, a sure way of getting something from the mines has been substituted with a tax regime which factually depends on the goodwill of the investors to declare correct dividends or profits. We all know that, naturally, a business person will go a long way to reduce costs. He can even go as far as hiding…

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

Dr Katema: Kuti watala waikalako panshi, mama.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is being insisted upon. It is not a right. I am listening to the hon. Member for Chingola and he is within the parameters of good debating in this House, except that I guided him not to tell parables in this House, which he has since stopped. What is your point of order?

Mrs Phiri: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to rise on a very serious procedural point of order. You do not allow us to raise points of order when a hon. Minister is on the Floor of the House. Therefore, I rise on a very serious point of order concerning what the hon. Minister of Health said that when we come to this House we talk about a lack of drugs in clinics. It is not true that the drugs are there. Has he visited all the clinics? It was only last week that I went to his Deputy Minister’s office and found a child who was being suspected of having swine flu and we were told that the drugs were only at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). Even medicine such as cough mixture and Vitamin E were not available at Kalingalinga Clinic. Therefore, is the hon. Minister in order to say what he said when there are no drugs in our clinics? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My serious ruling on the point of order which has been raised by the hon. Member for Munali is that, when this House deals with that portion of the budget related to portfolios, she must debate that issue under the Ministry of Health. The Minister of Health will be obliged to make reference to that argument, but you must raise it at that time.

The hon. Member for Chingola may continue, please.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we all know that, naturally, businessmen will go a long way to hide their profits and if you want to confirm this, you can ask the people at the Central Statistical Office (CSO). This is because when they are collecting data from different industries and business houses, they are asked what they want that data for. If it is data for tax that they give one set of records and if it is for any other thing, they give a different set of records. This is correct and you can confirm it with the people who are at the CSO in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. They will tell the hon. Minister that.

Mr Speaker, what makes us sure that we are not going to collect anything from these mining companies is the current policy which is in place. I am afraid we are not going to get anything even from our oil which we are prospecting when we find it.

Mr Speaker, I read in the papers that a certain company is preparing to start mining uranium. The only reward which we are going to get from this uranium mining is pollution of our people and nothing else. So, if we are not ready with the minerals which God gave us, it is better to leave them to the new generation who will know what to do with them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, in my constituency, there are a lot of houses that have been cracked by the blasting done by Konkola Copper Mines and when you tell the Government to intervene in this matter it says that it cannot interfere and, therefore, the residents, themselves, should take the mining company to court.

Mr Kambwili: Shame!

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, when you go to the mining company, they say that it is only the Government which is liable to look after the degeneration of the environment. So, the Government is not protecting its own people and the people of Zambia are not benefiting anything from the copper which is being mined. Why do I say so? Last year, in 2008, when we passed the Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill of 2008, it was agreed that 60 per cent of the mining royalties would go to Central Government coffers and 40 per cent would remain in the districts where the mining operations were being done. Of this, 20 per cent should go to the local authority and 20 per cent to the local people where mining is being done. However, from 1st April, 2008 to date, we have not heard anything about the mineral royalties which were collected. The people of Zambia are even alarmed to hear that the Chinese mining company has been given a tax rebate on the mineral royalty tax. So, the people of Zambia are advising the Government that, if at all, it wants to give tax rebates, it should not do so with the mineral royalty tax, but with other taxes which they can forfeit. However, the mineral royalty tax belongs to the local people and they want it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we, the people of Zambia, are worried because we expect that any moneys which the Government is projecting to earn should be projected in some documents either in the Budget or national development plan. The Government is well advanced in the plans of offloading the Zambia Telecommuincations Company (ZAMTEL) shares and nowhere in any Government document do we see how that money is going to be used to benefit the Zambian people. The Zambian people are also alarmed to see the company, RP Capital, which is tasked to advise Zambia on how to proceed with ZAMTEL and the offloading of shares. When you go on the internet and gogo in ….

Hon. Members: No, google.

Dr Katema: … on Danny Gepler and RP Capital, you will be very alarmed to see the integrity …

Mrs Masebo: Tell us.

Dr Katema: … of the company which this Government has engaged. You can also go and gogo in on …

Interruptions

Hon. Members: Google!

Dr Katema: … Danny Gepler and corruption and you will see what corruption RP Capital is engaged in. You will learn how it is engaged in black diamonds and arms deals in the Democratic Republic of Congo and other countries. You will not be surprised why the people of Zambia are getting alarmed. This is a company which is registered in a tax haven, a country where if anything goes wrong, its people cannot claim anything from the proceeds of the sale of ZAMTEL.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
 

Dr Katema: This is why at this rate, we, the people of Zambia, are alarmed. 

Mr Mwenya interjected.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, there is very little consistency in the way the Budget is made in Zambia. The Government had committed itself to developing the infrastructure by way of building district hospitals, but along the line, it changed its course and said it would not build and strengthen the district hospitals, but purchase mobile hospitals. I do not know if this has been slotted in the Budget, but I am not seeing it. There is, therefore, very little consistency in the planning of the Government.

Mr Speaker, the Zambian people are tired of such kind of budgets which I likened to a household with a careless and reckless head so much so that people are opting for a change of head in the name of the PF-UPND pact.

Hon. PF and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: This is definitely coming and I would urge our friends on your right to start packing their luggage …

Interruptions

Dr Katema: … in preparation for their exit in 2011.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, as usual, my speech is very short. I just want to briefly contribute to this very good Budget Motion …

Mrs Phiri: Question!

Laughter

Mr Mulonga: … which was moved in this House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, if I was on your left hand side, and with a lot of specialisation on that side, I would also say, “question” to this type of Budget Presentation. It requires specialised people to understand a specialised system.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulonga: When we talk about a Budget, we talk about the work of economists.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, if you recall, when we are talking about roads, I always consult Hon. Mooya because, although I am in this House, there are certain things which he is specialised in, which I may not understand. In the same vein, when we are debating the Budget, which is made by economists and approved by a doctor in economics, we must consult those people who understand it very well for us to make a meaningful presentation here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Ngataucita understand lobe.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, I will give an example. If you asked whether the budget allocation to the health sector has been reduced, the answer may be yes and no. Yes, because the mentality of our people, sometimes, is that if, for instance, I am allocated K2billion, next year, I should expect K3billion the next year. Life does not go like that. Planning is not supposed to be like that. If, for example, in the Ministry of Health, this year, they wanted to build ten hospitals and those hospitals have been built, do you expect the same budget the following year? It has to be reduced. Therefore, when you are doing …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[Mr SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was trying to give an example of how well the Budget must be analysed. I gave an example of the Ministry of Health. We might think that, this year, the overall budget allocation to the ministry has been reduced. However, this could be because some of the major projects which were once planned for have been completed. This is the reason the overall outlook may give the impression that the budget has been reduced. Nevertheless, when you get into detail and analyse the budget, item by item, you will note that there is an increment in the allocation towards the recruitment of nurses.

Mr Speaker, I am trying to make each and every one of us understand, especially those who have never done economics and may learn from me…

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulonga: …how to analyse the Budget.

Hon. government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we are at liberty to complain about reduction of the allocation in the Budget. However, what is important is its analysis. The question should be what the priority of the nation at that particular moment …

Hon. government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: …when the Budget is being analysed is? For instance, we cannot just look at the Budget and start saying “Last year, K1billion was allocated. This year, we have K800milion,” and even conclude that the allocation has been reduced. To the contrary, if in a particular year, K500 million is allocated for the completion of a hospital, there is no need to allocate more money the following year. 

Mr Speaker, we know that,  at the moment, there is a crisis …

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Mulonga: Stop what you are saying.

Mr Speaker, there is a crisis in as far as fuel is concerned. I heard one hon. Member make a false analysis that each person is supposed to consume about seventeen teaspoons of fuel. You do not calculate like that. What we do is take the liters of fuel against the fleet of vehicles you have and not the population sample.

You do not work like that because it is not that each and every individual in this country owns a vehicle. You calculate according to the number of vehicles, which you have at that particular moment. That is what is referred to as good analysis.

Mr Kambwili: Namunwa ko tujilili!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we must come, here, with facts to feed the people who are listening out there. We should not present speeches that are not factual to the people of Zambia just for the sake of making ourselves happy as this will mislead the nation.

Mr Muntanga: Consumption per capita.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, it is very true that per capita income is used when undertaking a feasibility study in a given country. This is done by taking both the number of rural and urban areas and then dividing that by the total population. However, this will never guide you exactly as to whether the country is going forward or backward because in rural areas, you may find that there is a lot of development as opposed to the urban areas. When you put them together, it may seem as though there is no development going on. Therefore, those are not good standards by which to make an analysis of the economies of the nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we have to make sure that, first and foremost, we research correctly so that our people are fed with the correct information. We must talk about things we really understand for people to get what we are talking about as leaders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, there is also a complaint about the way the country is being run. An example was given about how the National Budget should not be compared to the household one. In my opinion, there is no difference in the sense that if one fails to run his or her own house, he or she cannot run the nation because even at house level, there are priorities. You have to think and plan where you are going to get the revenue from for your expenditure. Therefore, the source of the revenue is very important, be it at household or at national level. You are only going to make a perfect budget if you understand the revenue resource.

Mr Speaker, when one wants to guide the Government on the revenue expenditure, one has to outline the revenue base and give advice on the course of action to take, for instance, if we do this, we are going to have more revenue for more projects to be done.  This is similar to the household level as the nation will never rely on one type of revenue.

Therefore, the tax from the mines cannot be the only source of revenue for this country. There are other avenues from which we, as a country, can source revenue. Therefore, when we are debating in this House, we must make sure that we bring in the perspective of a broader base of revenue so that if we fail in this area, only the can we fall back on the other revenue as resource to move our nation forward.

 We, as leaders in this House, should not say we must find money. That should be the language of the Zambians out there who have sent us to this House. As hon. Members, we have to say that we are going to find money from this area to develop another area.

Interruptions

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, this is why I said that, as hon. Members in this House, we should consult each other because there are those who are good at practice and those who use the language most of our people on the street speak and we may not understand it. Therefore, when we come to the National Budget, I still insist that there has to be consultations from those who are specialised in that area.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, there is a lot of talk about politics, but before I go into that, let me refer to how the Budget intends to look into different areas to cover the interest of Zambians. I would like to make a request that during the times we have private talks, let us put the question of who a Zambian is on the agenda so that we explain to the people. When I stand here and say, “  The people of Zambia are against you, the Government,” first and foremost, I must realise that the person I am pointing at is also a Zambian and his or her relatives out there are Zambians. In addition, those who voted for him or her are Zambians. Therefore, which Zambians would I be saying are against him or her? It is better for me to say my family and I are against the Government and not to generalise.

Laughter

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, that should be stopped because it is misleading the nation. We have to understand what we mean when we say some of these things.

Interruptions

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we are supposed to understand who a Zambian is so that, together, we know exactly who has the interest of the Zambians at heart. It is disheartening for hon. Members to come to this House and condemn the Budget simply because it does not meet their expectations. For example, if I am running a guest house and see that there is no money allocated towards its up-keep, I must not say that the budget is hollow because if I do, it means my interest is not for the Zambian people, but for my family. Equally, if I am a supplier and see that there is no allocation for supplier’s payments, I should not come here and refer to the budget as being hollow because if I say so, I am protecting my personal interests and not those of the Zambian people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mulonga: We have to differentiate that which is for the nation from that which is of personal interest. We have to learn to speak the same language.

Mr Speaker, in Bemba we say, “Ibuluma tailya elo imfula yachimwela yonaula efyakulya.” This means that if one starts with threats, they are equipping their opponents with resolutions.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: If you keep talking about the Pact coming, those of us who are listening to this will also decide on how to make sure that we burn it.

Interruptions

Mr Mulonga: When you say that the Pact is coming, you are, in essence, talking about yourself and your closet neighbour, however, it is important to note that even members of other parties have friends, relatives and in-laws who support them. Therefore, we should not say we are coming or the Zambians are coming. Which Zambians are you referring to?

We have to ensure that we do not mislead the nation. Since we have heard …

Mr Kambwili: Ukashite suit!

Mr Mulonga: I am not a scrap metal dealer, so I cannot buy another suit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: … that the packet is coming, we, from this side of the House, are preparing on how to deal with it so that it does not carry more cigarettes than it is supposed to. We are prepared.

 However, what I can urge hon. Members, here, in this House is that we should stop misleading the nation. Zambians are Zambians and they do not belong to one person. If your opinion is different from another persons, it does not mean that you are more Zambian than they other. You may be of low understanding and might not understand the issues we talk about and that is why you always seem to argue louder and always point fingers at others because you think you know everything.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, if an analysis was conducted, it could be discovered that this type of behaviour is owed to, maybe, a very low level of education.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kasama Central!

Mr Mwamba stood up.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! May the hon. Member take his seat for a moment?

Mr Mwamba sat down.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kasama Central is going to make his maiden speech which, by the tradition, is not subject to interruptions and heckling on the understanding, of course, that he will not be controversial. That is the standard of presentation at the maiden level of debating.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for allowing me to present my maiden speech in this august House.

Mr Speaker, the opportunity and occasion to join other distinguished and honourable law-makers to provide the much-needed leadership to our country is only partly a delight, but largely a call for reflection on the challenges we face to redress the extremely sad plight of our people. I will come back to that issue later.

Mr Speaker, let me now hasten to express my profound gratitude to the people of Kasama Central Constituency for the overwhelming trust they have placed in me through their massive vote against all odds.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: The other side of the divide has limitless resources from the public for election, something that our country can and must do without. In thanking all the people of Kasama Central, including those who, for a variety of reasons did not make it to the polls, I want to appeal for a spirit of fellowship and togetherness.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Those who voted for other candidates are, hereby, assured that I respect their strengthening of democracy by exercising their freedom of choice. What is important now is for all to recognise and accept that, until 2011, the by-election is over and we must fold our sleeves to work and live in harmony to develop Kasama and end the state of slumber. An election is a competitive environment. It brings about emotions and bitter exchanges. We should not go too far in our hostilities, but move quickly to reconcile and embrace everybody. For me, it is only fair that I extend a hand of friendship to all of you.

My ancestors have ruled over Kasama from time immemorial. My own grandfather, Mr Mubanga Chisupa, was Senior Chief Mwamba from 1920 to 1945. His brother, Mr Kanyanta, was Chief Mwamba from 1898 to 1920 and ruled as Chief Chitimukulu from 1920 to 1943. I cannot, therefore, be a symbol of division and hate or be a tribalist. My father, who was the first African Minister of Agriculture at the time I was born in 1959 up to 1962, died as Chief Munkonge after being Chief Mporokoso for quite a long period. As a family, the interests of all the people of Kasama and the wider riches of the Bemba speaking people have been our primary concern. I hope and ardently pray that the good Lord, in his infinite mercy and compassion will give me the wisdom to put the plight and interest of the people before my ego and selfish desires.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr G. B. Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I totally endorse your prayer that lawmakers give due primacy to the interest of the people that the good Lord has entrusted into our charge.

Mr Speaker, let me come back to the plight of the people not only in my constituency, but also in Zambia as a whole. The vast majority of our people are severely afflicted by abject poverty and their sad plight gets worse day by day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr G. B. Mwamba: For people in leadership, at whatever level, to talk of development is both a lack of conscious and naked cynicism. The few of us who live well, and personally I do, should not feel comfortable because the continued poverty of the majority of our fellow Zambians can only induce violence and other forms of social disorder.

Once again, Mr Speaker, the campaign was an eye opener. Kasama beyond the immediate confines of the municipality has no roads and where there is a semblance of a road network, the paths, which is what they are, are a total misery and a trip which ordinarily took ten minutes takes hours. In the rainy season, these paths are rendered impassable even with four-wheeled drive vehicles.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr G. B. Mwamba: The Northern Province, so vast in area, actually bigger than the Republic of Malawi, is very badly served by the road network. To take a shortcut off the Kasama/Mbala Road to Nakonde takes hours, and yet this is a stretch of less than 100 kilometres. The area between Kasama and Mporokoso has twenty-one rivers and good agriculture prospects, but development is rendered impossible due to lack of physical infrastructure such as good roads. This is actually the story of rural Zambia.  Forty-five years after our country achieved independence, vast areas lack water resources, and our women have to travel long distances to carry water on their heads when they are not carrying firewood from equally long distances.

Mr Speaker, while I admit that efforts have been made to expand and extend the school network and house services, there is still a huge gap to cover. The schools and health services are in a sorry state and lack equipment and drugs in case of health centres. The conditions of service and surroundings of education and health personnel leave much to be desired. The staff cannot, under these circumstances, be highly motivated and hence, service delivery is expectedly very poor.

As a country, we have been untiring in urging people to take up agriculture as a way of alleviating poverty. Unfortunately, there are no success stories from small-scale farmers. Our people are not paid on time and are stuck with their produce for very long periods. What is more, the prices they are paid for the variety of what they produce are often below the cost of production. Surely, our country has people with enough capacity to think. Only when we address obstacles to a successful agriculture sector will our people get out of poverty and our country will go forward because there are enough citizens with buying power.

Sir, for agriculture to break ground and for goods and people to move within and in all parts of the country, a good network of roads is a must. Roads and related infrastructure are expensive. We must learn to avoid waste at the Central Government level and not rely on outsiders who are called donors and who, one day, may not be forthcoming. Our Government is simply too large and eats up huge resources that should go into development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Speaker, the hopes I express above require vision and honest leadership which, at the moment, seems to be in short supply. We need a change of guard and leadership with a mind set of service to the nation before self-interest. We have to banish the culture of nchekelako, which means that  leaders always insisting and adamant for a cut every time and everywhere. Corrupt leadership is very costly to the country. While honest leadership motivates and inspires people to perform heroic acts, dishonest leadership totally kills incentives for people to work hard.

Currently, we have fuel shortages which are corruption-induced. People at the top desire to make a cut from fuel purchases arrangements which are very profitable, so, they by pass companies with means and expertise or competence in favour of connections with little or no competence and poor resources. The country suffers at the hands of greed and, likewise, our standing internationally.

Despite all these sad situations, there is some hope that the country is increasingly getting fed up with crookedness and will use the polls to sort out the crooks.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! Only I, can interrupt your speech. Be cautious. You are now being controversial. Since you know your speech, skip all the controversies and move on to the other areas.

Mr Mwamba:  Mr Speaker, I thank you for the guidance.

Mr Speaker, there are parties which have embraced disgraced leaders who they wrongly think can sway the supposedly innocent Zambian voters.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: This misconception dealt a blow in the just ended by-election in Kasama Central …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: …which I was privileged to have won. I am confident that the people of Zambia will not be taken for granted any more, for a change of guard is long overdue.

Mr Speaker, I want to make special mention and thank the PF Leader, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for his tireless support.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: I also want to thank all the PF/UPND Members of Parliament who came to my rescue in Kasama and whom I hope will form the next Government in the next few months with.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker, let me solicit your indulgence for me to thank my mother, my wife and children, my grandchildren and, indeed, all my friends and relatives for their unwavering support. They saw very little of me during the campaign period. Therefore, I thank them for their patience and endless love.

I would also like to thank the people of Kasama Central, once again, for their trust. I will, at all times, return favour for their consideration.

Sir, I am grateful for the opportunity to address this august House for the first time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the beauty of the National Assembly of Zambia is that each hon. Member’s seat is by the courtesy of the people in the constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Courtesy of the people of Katuba!

Major Chizhyuka: No matter how much noise our colleagues will make, how much cacophony …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … they will cause and how many petitions they will make, at the end of the day, it is the courtesy of the people in the constituencies that counts.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  The National Assembly of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, because of the recent tribulations in my organisation, the UPND, I have had very little time to look through the Budget in the normal manner that I do, but I did look through, particularly at some interests that concern my people.

Hon. MMD Member: Strong Man.

Major Chizhyuka:  Mr Speaker, Pablo Picasso says and I quote:

“Our goals can only be reached through the vehicle of a plan in which we must fervently believe and upon which we must vigorously act. There is no other route to success.”

Mr Speaker, when I came to the National Assembly of Zambia, our people in Namwala were engulfed in some of the most unbelievable problems. The teachers, nurses, doctors, civil servants, farmers, peasants, who are the poorest of the poor, had begun to ask if they were part of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, fortunately, as I have always said, I come from a district which has the largest number of cattle owned by indigenous people in this country. Some of the Ila people told me that if we could not have a road, I would have had to go to Lusaka to find out how much a helicopter costed so that we could get it and use it to access Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, I asked the people of Namwala to give me five years and to trust me. In October, 2007, I said, publicly, that if the road from Choma to Namwala was not tarred, they should not re-elect me in 2011.

Interjection

Major Chizhyuka: I hear some noise that I have talked about that before. Yes, I have, but we want to give credit where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Major Chizhyuka: My daughter told me that as a member of the Opposition, I should not oppose for the sake of opposing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Wamvela, GBM?

Major Chizhyuka:  She said I should engage in constructive criticism and, therefore, by the same standard, if good is done, credit must be given.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was presenting the Budget, which I debate on the Floor of Manda Hill, today, it was so nice for the humble people of Namwala …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … to know that this Government is continuing to tar the Choma/Namwala Road and complete it for the first time since 1964 at a cost of K167 billion.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: What do you think the people of Namwala feel now that they are going to travel on tarmac from Maala to Lusaka for the first time?

Hon. Government Members: Joy, joy!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  Should you not give credit where it is due?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  This Government has made it possible …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  … for the people of Namwala to smile for the first time.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  Mr Speaker, in Ila we say “Bomba ulye malelo”.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  This means that when it is necessary, you must belittle yourself so that you can get goodies from an old man.

Mr Speaker, I would like to advise the new hon. Member of Parliament who was lamenting the problems in rural Kasama, that he will be judged not only by the level of debate in this House, but by the extent to which he engages the Government and the constituency in development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: In Ila, again, we call it “kasoke kabuyanzane.” Mr Speaker, I watched the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning present the Budget at the beginning of this year and I also watched him closely when he presented the Budget this time around. I was amazed at how articulate he had become.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  He was articulate and focused. I told one hon. Member that the man was not reading, but was actually using modern technology.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: I look like an hon. Member of Parliament when I come to Manda Hill, but what is it that I will take back to the people of Namwala? We have been able to engage the Government. When Hon. Mwaanga was Chief Whip, the other time, together with Hon. Beene and Hon. Hamududu, in the principle of the Ila people, uwa kusiya kasokwe ka buyanzane, visited the area …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … in order to fight for our people. He is there and can vouch for himself. We asked him to engage the Government because we do not think as Namwala. By the way, there is also the greater Namwala. People think of Namwala as Namwala.

Mr Ntundu: Itezhi-tezhi!

Major Chizhyuka: I understand, for instance, that somebody was saying that he is itching to get to Namwala.

Mr Ntundu: And Itezhi-tezhi, where we won.

Major Chizhyuka: I am surprised that someone can say he is itching to get to that place. When I looked at the statistics of last year’s election results, I noticed that 41 per cent voted against him.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, 41 per cent in the constituency do not like him, …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … but he is itching to get to Namwala.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the UPND statistics, compiled by the chairperson for elections, Mr Ackson Sejani, indicate that the best performing constituency in the entire country in UPND is Namwala Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: This is at positive 3.7 per cent followed by Siavonga and Sinazongwe respectively.

Mr Ntundu: And Gwembe!

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Speaker: There is no point of order because he is crediting with support from your constituency.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: This is because the people of Namwala are responding to the goodies that are coming from a Government that is responding to the people’s needs. That is a fact.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, it used to take us five hours to drive from Niko to Monze during the dry season and eight hours in the rain season. Do you know how much time it takes us now? It takes fifty-five minutes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Are you sure that the people of Namwala cannot be happy …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … with the gestures that the Government that listens to people is doing? Do you expect me, their representative, to come and say this Budget is hollow, I, Major Chizhyuka?

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: No way!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, there are many other things that the Government is doing and as a representative of the people of Namwala, I am happy that things are happening. We are building a school, courtesy of the former hon. Minister of Education, Professor Lungwangwa, and the current hon. Minister of Education, Ms Siliya, is following suit. A girls’ technical school, which will be the fifth or sixth largest in the country, is being constructed in the area. Can the people of Namwala not be happy …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … when things like that have never happened since 1964?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Are you crossing the Floor?

Major Chizhyuka: I am being asked questions in the back, but I would like to tell you that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Address me and ignore the hecklers.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I was telling you about the greater Namwala which constitutes Namwala, Itezhi-tezhi, parts of Mumbwa, most parts of Nangoma and Mwembeshi. That place we now call Mwembeshi is not Mwembeshi. It is mweembezhi which means an area where people were herding cattle. That is Namwala. It is an area for people like myself, the Ilas.

The greater Namwala proceeds into Bweengwa and parts of Mazabuka.

Mr Hamududu: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Members: You are not in your seat, just listen.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, as you know …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Major Chizhyuka: … that is known as geo-politics.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: I am not saying I would like to pull an hon. Member of Parliament to my side, I do not need to that.

Hon. Government Members: You do not need him (Mr Hamududu).

Major Chizhyuka: I do not even need him.

Laughter

 Major Chizhyuka: The original boundary of Namwala is with Mazabuka. One can just go and research on this to prove that. I am saying this because the Indigenous People’s Rights Association, to which I am national chairperson, will continue to operate to bring the people together and, at some point, decide the direction.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  I would like to tell you that I will do the things I say with military precision.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear, hammer!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: I emphasise that I will do these things with military precision because I did them without party politics. This country knows the extent to which I can go in doing these things. I am so grateful that we are proceeding with the National Constitutional Conference (NCC).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Major Chizhyuka: It is important that a country such as Zambia must proceed with the NCC and I am glad the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has allocated resources in that regard. Why it is important? It is important because all of a sudden, the trend that we have seen in our country is that political parties have embraced violence. From nowhere, political parties that were considered liberal, have become violent.

Mr D. Mwila: Even ba MMD baloma abantu!

Major Chizhyuka: What for?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Major Chizhyuka: I am talking about the NCC because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has allocated resources for it. Political parties have embraced tribalism and intolerance.

Hon. Opposition Members: George Mpombo!

Major Chizhyuka: One of my colleagues I work with belongs to PF. As you may be aware, when I am addressing press conferences, both people on my right and left are from the PF.

Hon. PF Members: Mention their names!

Major Chizhyuka: I am sure you saw them on television.

Interruptions

Hon. PF Members: Balumbule!

Major Chizhyuka: What I am saying is that, at the end of the day, a young man who sat there from a political party was bundled into a house in modern day Zambia. He was bundled into a car in typical Gestapo style.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka: The other day, that young man asked me whether I understood trauma and I told him that I did. He told me that I did not. He further asked me whether I understood the trauma a mother goes through during child birth or a young child who has been raped. I told him that not to that extent. The young boy said that was how he felt.

Mr Beene: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am listening to the debater who is not infringing on the rules of the debate.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: The young man said that he felt traumatised when a car is over speeding because it reminded him of how he was taken round.

I went to visit his mother and she asked me who had the power to bring her child, who she had carried in her womb for nine months, to a point of death.

Mr Speaker, it is such matters that are associated with violence, intolerance and tribalism in these political parties. You have heard of violence called the Mapatizya Formula.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: I have heard that some people will crush me to pulp.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: How possible is that? If you want to crush Major Chizhyuka to pulp, the first thing that these people must do is get back to their constituencies …

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka:  …and be able to…

Interruptions

Hon. Sejani stood up and pointed at Major Chizhyuka.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Mapatizya will take his seat.

So far, apart from cries of points of order, I have not heard anything that indicates that the hon. Member for Namwala is debating outside the rules of debate. I have not heard. The Chair gives him the freedom to conclude his debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka:  Mr Speaker, when you get two levels of violence of the Mapatizya Formula and the incident in Chawama …

Mr Sejani: You are talking about Mapatizya. Do you know Mapatizya?

Major Chizhyuka: … and put them together …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … you get to understand what will unfold for the Republic of Zambia.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I rest my case.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to add my voice to the debates on the Floor of this House. I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the professional manner in which he presented the Budget on Friday, 9th October, 2009.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: When I saw the gadgets, I was very scared as to whether he would manage to read through, but I think that we have someone we can clearly call a proper hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, why do we budget in the first place? We budget because needs are many, but the resources are scarce. Therefore, we prioritise and arrive at opportunity costs because if you say that you will have everything you want, there would be no need to have a budget.  We budget because we want to see what is needed. It is not easy to prioritise when dealing with a country as a whole.

Therefore, all of us who are analysing the Budget should not just think of our priorities. We must think of the priorities of the nation. Even when we get the Constituency Development Fund, I am sure we do not do everything we need to do at a goal. We prioritise. We must also remember that even the people in our constituencies complain about the way we implement our projects. In the same manner, we are supposed to complain. However, it is the manner in which we complain that matters.

Mr Speaker, I have always said that it is easier to criticise than to perform. It is very easy. When you are seated in a chair, you can play soccer and score ten goals. However, when you are put on the pitch, you fail to even lift your foot. Therefore, when we are criticising, we should be realistic.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I have always been realistic, and, maybe, it is because of this realism that I have created enemies in certain circles.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: However, it does not bother me because I am principled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: One day, people will understand and see that I meant well.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, leadership comes from God.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: If, as a leader, you have bad intentions for our country, God will not give you a chance to lead ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … because he loves this country.

Hon. Government Member: Prophesy.

Mrs Sinyangwe: We have had peace all these years and not accidentally, but because God loves mother Zambia. I am sure he will continue to love her.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: If I had seen before what I am seeing in today’s politics, I would never have joined politics.

Mr Kambwili: Hmmm. Question!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I know that other people can do anything to get to certain positions to an extent of killing. I think we should not go that way.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The word kill in that context is not allowed.

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, I am sorry. Much Obliged. People can do anything to get to certain positions.

Hon. Government Member: Eliminate.

Mrs Sinyangwe: When we elect a Government, even if I personally did not vote for them, I am obliged. The other day, I was listening to my brother from Kasama who was making an oath. His words were “I will bear allegiance to the President.” This is an office and it has to be respected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I do not see how we can insult our leaders day in and day out in this country, and yet we have children who are seeing what we are doing. I do not need to insult in my criticism. Neither do I need to beat up anyone so that they can see my point of view.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: It has even reached an extent where I need police escort to get the village where my mother and father where born, because somebody has sent thugs to attack me.

Mr Kambwili: Attack you for what? Who are you?

Mrs Sinyangwe: These are not the politics we are going to go for. If we are going to go by violence and insults, …

Interruptions

Mrs Sinyangwe:  Mr Speaker, I am giving a very noble piece of advice. I am older than some hon. Members in here and I can see that we are going the wrong way.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: For instance, if I would like to have a good position or even to be president, the manner in which I go about it matters a lot because the people who are seeing me, will see whether I have leadership qualities or not. You hear people say that so and so has been bought. No one can buy me.

Mr Kambwili: Aah!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I will do something because I believe in it …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
 
 Mrs Sinyangwe: …and because it is what I want to do. No one can buy me. I worked in the Government for thirty-two years and I came out with a clean record.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I have always believed in saying “no” to what I do not like. Even if I go to whichever party, if I do not agree with something, I will say it. In some parties, it is taboo to disagree.

Laughter

Mrs Sinyangwe: It is should not be like that.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about the Budget, we know that the hon. Minister was trying put together limited resources. Therefore, we have to have opportunity costs. At the same time, we have to bring some of the things that the people need to the attention of the hon. Minister and the Government. We are contributing to the debate because we want the Government to be aware of our needs so that next time, they can be prioriotised as well. I, therefore, agree with the hon. Minister’s first sentence in the budget in which he said that he was going to present the Budget Speech at a time of great economic uncertainty in the world. Even that did not mean a lot to some of us. We know what we have been going through, but I would want to bring out a few things that, I think, my people in the constituency would like to see.

When we come to infrastructure, roads especially, I know that something is being done, but still a lot needs to be done. The roads are being worked on.  We even heard somebody praise the Government because he has had a road worked on in his constituency. Another hon. Member will have a road worked on and I also need a road.

Mr Speaker, when the current President was Vice-President, I requested for Zingalume Road to be worked on. The people who are going to the cemetery use that road. People who are going to the hospital need to use that road. What it is now is that it is cut in half. Half of the road cannot be used. People must be dropped somewhere in the middle of the road with their parcels on their heads as they go to the hospital. I would like that to be looked into before the rainy season comes.

Let me now talk about the health of the people. I am glad that the state of the infrastructure at my clinic is improving. It is not everything that can be bad. Other things can be good.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The Government is building a filter and I would like to thank it for that. However, we need to do more because we need more beds and a maternity wing. The mothers need a proper place to give birth from. That is where life begins. Therefore, we should respect our mothers.

Sir, the Ministry of Health held a workshop for us. Suffice to say that when they call you to go and attend a workshop, you need to go and learn something. Unfortunately, some of people are not interested in learning. I learn a lot.

The Managing Director showed us films of the latest happenings at the UTH. When you see those films, you can tell that we are getting somewhere. We do not have everything, but, at least, we are moving in the right direction. Therefore, more needs to be done. We need more medicines in the hospitals and a lot of other things.

Interruptions

Mrs Sinyangwe: No, the Government has done something. I cannot say it has done nothing.

 Mr Speaker, I do not work to be adopted. I work as an hon. Member of Parliament for the people of Matero. I have worked very well with the people despite some people trying to fight me. I am still very strong on the ground.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I will prove it to the people that I can make it.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I can make it because I am always on the ground with the people. I do not need to lean on anybody. I just have to be me…

 Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe:…and present myself as a capable hon. Member of Parliament

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: You have sent acting hon. Members of Parliament in that constituency and they have failed to penetrate.

Laughter

Mrs Sinyangwe: Ten people have come there before, but they have failed. I defeated them because I am doing the right thing. No matter what they say, I am not the type of a person who goes to radio stations to say I am working. I talk to hon. Ministers and they can bear with me. I go and sit down with them and tell them the problems that I have in my constituency. I am sure they would understand me better that way rather than me being antagonistic. That is not my style of leadership.

Mr Speaker, we need markets in my constituency. We need to control our people so that the money that is being levied in the markets should go to the right place. Let us not use cadres to get money from traders. When I say cadres, I do not mean those from one party, but all parties. When you go to the Copperbelt, you would find cadres collecting money. When you come to Lusaka, you will also find other cadres also doing the same thing. We should make a stop to this so that we can use that money wisely. Therefore, decentralisation should be seen to work because that is the basis of us moving forward. When we decentralise, we must give people the authority. I am so worried about our councils. We have politicised them so badly that some of the councils are not doing any serious work. We just politick from day one to the 30th or whatever day of a month. I hope that one day we are gong to see to it that councillors become like proper civic leaders. Let us not have councillors come into the council on party tickets. This has created a lot of problems for us. We want a civic leader who is going to work fully aware that he is doing it for the people of the city or municipality. What usually happens is that us from political parties go to talk to councilors and confuse them in the process. They do not know what they are doing and in the end, they lack direction. We are all aware that some of our councillors have got humble education and they cannot read beyond certain points. We usually just confuse them. Please let us leave the councillors alone Let us see to it that we work.

Mr Speaker, when it comes to land, we should at least allow Zambians to own land and  houses. What we are seeing of late is not good.

Mr Speaker, I have seven families in my constituency who were evicted because the flats were they were staying were being sold to Indians. We should critically look into such issues. We should allow Zambians to buy those houses or allow them to buy land.

Sir, currently we have a situation whereby everybody wants to be free to give land. I have complained in this House that I do not have a place to build a school because of unplanned settlements. We should look into this critically and punish the people who do wrong things. I do not believe in doing wrong things.

A number of people have built structures in wrong places. When you report such people to the Lusaka City Council (LCC), it does not act until people build 200 beautiful houses. Then, that is when the council wants to move in and demolish the houses. I think I will not support that because when you tell the council to move in and demolish the structures, they do not want to move in. Actually, we act like sadists. Why should we want to let somebody spend so much money then demolish their buildings. Planning and monitoring should be of essence if we are going to move forward. We do a lot things, but we should be able to monitor and be sincere with ourselves. It is not just a question of opening the mouth and criticise everything. For some people when they open their mouths, people even know that what they are going to say even before they finish saying what they want to say. I think that is not good. When people label as someone who says wrong things and does not appreciate anything, they will stop to listening to you. I am not stopping people to criticise, but let it be constructive criticism.

 I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!  

The Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Imasiku): Mr Speaker, it is, gratifying to be given this rare opportunity to debate this very important Budget for the year, 2010. This is a Motion which should not passed without one giving his or her opinion.

Mr Speaker, before I go further, allow me to tender my condolences to the Mwanakatwe family for the untimely demise of that great son of Africa who once served this great country as an hon. Minister of Finance. The likes of the late Mwanakatwe are men who have done so much for Zambia that their names will never fade away. At this point in time, I want to salute him. May his soul rest in peace.

Sir, I want to now turn to new hon. Member of Parliament. Unfortunately after giving his maiden speech, it appears he has run away. I hope he will not be doing the same.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, this is the right time for me to congratulate the new hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama for the hard won seat against his previous party. I know him because the MMD was his party. I know he is just there in body, but in spirit he is still MMD …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: … and will soon actually come to the fold. All the same, we do not have any grudge over your victory because we just had a doctor brought to our side a few days ago also. I am quite confident, Mr Speaker, that very soon, we are going to bring another very important person from Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Very soon!

Mr Speaker, like most of the realistic and grateful hon. Members of this august House, I want to start by commending Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, MP, Minister of Finance and National Planning for a budget designed to propel the economy of this great nation to higher heights.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Sir, it is important to note that Dr Musokotwane is a doctor of economics, a field which deals with development. It, therefore, goes without saying that this budget is a work of a conversant hand directed by an alert seasoned mind in this area of budgeting. It is that fact that makes me feel astonished when listening to friends here who have no idea at all about economics, making efforts of trivialising the Budget with irrelevant issues which are distantly divorced from it.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, if you cannot understand anything, just say so, the hon. Minister and his team will help you. At least, this is the first doctor in a relevant field to head this ministry. Once again, I commend you, hon. Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Sir, coming to the Budget, I want to say a word or two to some professional hecklers here. Most of them are professional hecklers who keep saying ‘Question.’

Laughter

Status of the Economy

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, with reference to Page 3 of the Budget Speech, copper the commodity that propels our economy slumped down from US $8,500 in July, 2008, to a meagre US$2,800 by December, 2008. The effect of this was a loss of about 8,500 jobs. Sir, I get worried with the behaviour of those who want to build capital over this global crisis when our neighbour like the Democratic Republic of Congo …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Imasiku: … lost 200,000 jobs. At a time when we lost only 8,000, our neighbours lost 200,000 jobs. A great country like South Africa lost 30,000 jobs and then you come here and say that we are the ones who are the most affected. Can you read between the lines? I want to ask the hon. Members on your left to read the economy of this country and other countries and see that we are not doing badly. This is a tide you cannot arrest. It is relieving to note that we are recovering and a total of 1,500 jobs in the mining sector have been created again. Those mines which were closed are have reopened and the famous Nickel Mine in Mazabuka is about to be reopened also. Surprisingly, I heard the hon. Members on your left saying that the economy was not doing well.

Mr Speaker, in this Budget, the hon. Minister intends to exceed a 5 per cent growth rate, reduce inflation to 8 per cent and limit domestic borrowing to 2 per cent of GDP. You will note that the Minister has allocated 19.2 per cent of this year’s budget to the economic sector as a means of stimulating economic growth in the country. This is a step in the right direction coming from a man with massive experience in the field of national development.

Sir, I have heard colleagues asserting that the hon. Minister has not gone a step further to incorporate other sectors of the economy by itemising them one by one. One debater said that we should go beyond the traditional way of doing our economics. Actually he said we should go outside the box. This is the problem of discussing issues you do not understand well. If you allocate funds to the mining sector, you do not need to segment the allocation to copper, lime, manganese and the rest.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Just by saying the mines are going to get this, means that you have allocated money even to those sub-sectors which are under mining. Those are the details found at another level. When you allocate money to the agricultural sector, you do not need to divide that into cattle, goats, chickens and cabbage as one hon. Members said at one time.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: He said, “I have not heard about my chickens and busala.” Mr Speaker, we do not budget like that.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Those are the details the Ministry of Agriculture is going to itemise.

With reference to agricultural sector again, I am perplexed by those who are criticising the hon. Minister for increasing the number beneficiaries of the Farm Input Support Programme (FISP) from 250,000 to 534,000 farmers. The idea is to improve the ratio of citizens with sufficient food. Some of you want the common man who are the people who actually need to have food in their granaries to be equated to the rich. This budget wants to put food in the granaries of the people who need it. If you go to constituencies like mine, the farmers may not have the money to buy all those packs which we were giving them previously. If you give them four pockets of fertilisers they will manage, but now you want to equate them to the other parts of the country. Mr Speaker, we are saying this is a step in the right direction.

Social Sector – Education and Skills

Mr Speaker, this Budget has provided a ration of 19.9 to this area. This will be translated into 2,900 classrooms that will cater for 250,000 additional students. A total of K84.3 billion has been allocated to my ministry under the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET). You cannot develop a country if you neglect education. After providing enough money to the economy and then to education and combine the two, that is how you are going to develop a nation.

Mr Speaker, the Budget has been designed to take the economy of this country higher heights. Seeing it with a different eye is a deliberate process of trivialising an important issue of national importance. Maybe, others are using the two heads of the chilingalinga snake in secret while we are reading this Budget.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: In my language, Mr Speaker, it is referred to as simonolowa. This snake does not see the sun and if you find it on land, then it is foretelling bad omen.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, in the Bible, a snake with more than one head is referred to as a dragon and it is associated with evil spirits whose source is the devil himself.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, those of you who are happy to be involved or linked to the chilingalinga, know that you are actually a devil.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, at this moment, allow me to comment on what some hon. Members have said about Liuwa Constituency. I have been astonished and worried about their comments on me.

From the time I have tried to sell the constituency, the concerned authorities…

Mr Muntanga: Sell the constituency?

Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Imasiku: They are very childish.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, from the time I have been trying to sell this constituency to the concerned authorities for purposes of soliciting support from our listening Government, a number of hon. Members from your left have felt threatened that, at last ,there is somebody to speak for the people of Liuwa compared to the last five years when the UPND was in control of that constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Will the hon. Member move from constituency politics and speak nationally. He is a member of the Executive.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I just wanted to mention to my colleagues that if you go to the Western Province now, there is a lot of development. In reference to Liuwa, I would like to say that before 2006, there were only three clinics in Liuwa and now we are proud of having four more being built.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Yet, some people are saying that there is no representation in that area when in 2006 and before, I was hon. Member of that constituency and there were no schools being built, and yet we had somebody from the UPND for five years. 
Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform you that this time around, ten schools are being constructed and the old ones are being renovated. In the Western Province, we have very strong hon. Members of Parliament and if you want to penetrate that area, just use another gate, but do not come to Liuwa with the chilingalinga because you will go nowhere.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, before 2006, the UPND lady who was there had the boat or pontoon lost. She could not even say where she took it, but as I am talking, a new pontoon is at Libonda Harbour.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling. Is this hon. Minister in order to ignore your advice to debate nationally and insinuate that all past hon. Members for Liuwa, including the Hon. Mr Speaker, did nothing there? Is he in order to debate like that?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

By involving the Chair in that point of order, the hon. Member for Kalomo has ruined his point of order. Will the hon. Deputy Minister continue, please?
Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for your good ruling.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I remember somebody saying that when he was in the Western Province, he saw somebody eating a mango.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Moomba, who is a gentleman and should not join the chilingalinga, in his debate, sometime back, said that in his constituency, people ate roots. We never said that people were eating roots there because they did not have an hon. Member of Parliament. When you speak, you must know what you are saying.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: We never said that Hon. Mooya was not representing his people because people in his constituency were eating roots. In the Western Province, mango is our fruit.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Imasiku: If you do not have mangoes, I feel sorry for you.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: If you want to capitalise on the issue of people eating mangoes for political mileage and as a gate to State House, you are wasting your time.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say that the Western Province has well-meaning representatives. If you look at the park which is being developed, at the time we had an hon. Member of Parliament belonging to the UPND, the leader there was against allowing African Parks to run Liuwa National Park, but when we came into power, the MMD Government signed an agreement. This time, the animal population, which was dwindling at 15,000, has risen to almost 40,000.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: This is the work of this Government and the representatives and yet some people say there is no representation there. If you do not have anything to say, it is better to be quiet until you have something to say.

Mr Speaker, I would like to tell those hon. Members who like making wild attacks on innocent people as a way of tarnishing their political images that they do not amuse me. Hon. Members should know that when you are unleashing slanderous messages here, the whole Zambia is listening. We are all regarded as hon. Members whilst some are not honourable at all.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: You should know that whatever you say, for the people out there, it is the truth. Do not lead me into temptations because still waters run deep. When some people see a gentleman who is humble, quiet and comes from a good family, they take him to be something to play with.

Mr Speaker, I am not a spoilt child and those who want to tarnish the names of other people as a way of getting to State House should find another way.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Budget.

Mr Speaker, my contribution to the debate will be categorised in two parts. The first will be on the issues of the Budget. I will not deal with this issue as a person holding ACCA or a former unionist or the first Youth Chairperson for the UPND …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … and also an hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-Tezhi which links up with Namwala and I am representing all those people around there now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I will then deal with the issue of responding to a colleague from a party here. Since I was also drawn in as an hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-Tezhi, I will also definitely comment on one or two issues.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. First and foremost, I have been in this House for three years now and those who know me know that I am one of those founder members of the MMD from the time it was in the industrial area. Other people were not even there.

UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: There was an agenda …

UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … where Hon. Vernon Mwaanga’s part was wrongly drawn in this debate by hon. Chizhyuka that he consulted him, at one time, on parliamentary offices. He did something different and I do not want to mention those things.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, on the global economic rebuilding, it was unnecessary for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to have wasted a lot of time explaining how the global crisis has been addressed in this country. Generally, the world had addressed this problem and Zambia completely failed to address this problem. Why do I say this?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, you cannot say that you addressed the problems in the economy when 8,000 people in the country lost their jobs ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Beene: … and 2,000 people from the mines lost their jobs without any compensation or alternative. That is total failure. You cannot hide in international figures …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: ... to show that that is the way the country is recovering from the recession. You are completely misleading this House and the people of Zambia. So, we cannot leave you because you have to do something. The people are still losing jobs in the private and informal sectors. They are still struggling and now you have added the fuel crisis.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I want to take the words of Hon. Syakalima as my own. What is happening is pathetic. I have to move because I have to leave a lot of time to deal with the issue of Itezhi-Tezhi, Namwala, Bweengwa, Mazabuka, parks …

Hon. Opposition Members: And Mumbwa.

Mr Beene: … and Mumbwa, of course. I wonder why Hon. Chizhyuka is not here because he is supposed to listen to me. He has run away, but he is in a vehicle. Therefore, I am asking him to come here and listen.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, on the Copperbelt, people have lost jobs. So, I expected this Budget to have taken care of the problems on the mines. That is crucial. Whether you like it or not you have to rule the country by numbers. The people of the Copperbelt are in a serious crisis and the situation is pathetic. Why do I so? I am giving you a challenge. May the soul of the late Minister of Local Government and Housing rest in peace. We are going into Solwezi and we will ask the people there whether they are going to give you the mandate or they will decide otherwise. Let me move away from that one.

Mr Speaker, we told the people on your right that this country needs money. This Government has not told us the amount of money which they collected as windfall tax. We do not know whether it was US $400 million or not. Where is the money? We were told there was a special account. We need the answer, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Opposition Member: What is the account number?

Mr Beene: What is the account number? Has it not gone to 0099? We need the answer. That is the people’s money. The issues have not yet been addressed.

Mr Speaker, I want to address tourism. Itezhi-tezhi is one of the key areas where tourism is supposed to flourish because it has an undisturbed environment and much of that land is trust land. Itezhi-tezhi is the second biggest constituency in the Southern Province after Kazungula. Much of the constituency is full of animals. What investment have you planned for it? Nothing! Completely noto.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, these are the issues we are talking about. The road in Itezhi-tezhi, which I keep emphasising, was tarred in 1978 and now it is a bush path. You collide with warthogs when you are driving your vehicle. You need bright lights to drive through and this is because there is no plan. That dam was constructed in 1978. The intakes of water were done at that time and that is where the power station is supposed to be placed. The technology has now changed and nothing is there. All the three speeches I have heard from the President here talking about Itezhi-tezhi are purely cheating the people of Itezhi-tezhi.

Mr Speaker, now, let me talk about elections. His Honour the Vice-President, Hon. Kunda, was in Itezhi-tezhi to campaign for a by-election.

Mr D. Mwila: Local Government.

Mr Beene: A Local Government by-election. I asked the people of Itezhi-tezhi to give the Vice-President votes if he was going to tar the road. If he did not, they was supposed to give him a zero vote. When he addressed a public meeting, he had only twelve people in attendance and I got 200 votes and it is on record.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: That is a message. Now, that is one, including the Minister of Energy and Water Development who has failed this country …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: ... and all the time he has misled the President to give a speech that he is going to take Itezhi-tezhi. He has failed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I told the people of Itezhi-tezhi how to show displeasure under such circumstances. You say, mwashemuna, mwashemuna, shame, sha, they lost eeyeeh!

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, what this means is that, if you want to shame somebody, shame somebody by bending your mouth and say look you have lost your senses.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I am still on tourism before I divert. The hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources should make sure that the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) has transport because at the moment, they have a serious problem of transport. Those people, according to the nature of their operations, have to cover so much distance. The vehicles which are there have broken down completely. I think, as we do this Budget, let us make sure that ZAWA, if you want to talk about tourism and looking after the wildlife, need transport.

Mr Speaker, the other thing is that the animals are overpriced. There is no way those who do not reside or are not local hunters or villagers in Itezhi-tezhi, in Chief Nabwalya’s area or Liuwa can pay K2.5 million just to hunt a buffalo. That is unacceptable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: What those charges have led to is that people are now poaching those animals because they have overshot the animals in terms of pricing. To hunt an elephant, a local person, or anybody for that matter, has to pay over K50 million. Mr Speaker, who can afford to pay K50 million? That is why people are busy poaching and selling tusks. It is because of the wrong arrangement and planning by this Government of MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, if you are a listening Government, you must listen to me because almost half of my constituency is a park and I interact with those people. Can you listen, hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. I am not talking about Sichifulo here.

Mr Speaker: Order! Do not address him, but address the Chair.

Mr Beene: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about health and water. That Budget does not address anything about water in Itezhi-tezhi. I have one of the biggest water bodies in this country and I am sure even Hon. Machungwa, where he comes from, there is so much water. However, there is no piped water. People are going with containers to draw water from the lake which is infested with crocodiles which we have not even cropped for the past twenty years and you expect to get a vote.

Mr Konga: It is okay.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development is saying it is okay. It is unfortunate.

Interruptions

Mr Beene: Address what?

Hon. Government Members: Shemuna, shame!

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I do not want to repeat how I told people to shame. I have already said that.

Laughter

As we, hon. Members of Parliament, come to this august House, we come through a constitutional arrangement.

Hon. Member: Yes.

Mr Beene:   One has to belong to a political party, if they have to come to Parliament. If one does not belong to a political party, the Head of State has the privilege to nominate as in the nomination of the current hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Chief whip, Hon. Mwaanga. That is constitutional.

Interruptions

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, others do not have constituencies, but it is legal to be nominated. Political parties have rules and procedures.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: There are norms that one has to accept. I challenge Hon. Chizhyuka over his claim of praise on the Choma Namwala Road which goes into my constituency. It was not planned by Hon. Chizhyuka. There was hon. Jane Chikota in this House, who initiated the works on that road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, if you want to criticise where you come from, it is better that you resign. I recently visited Itezhi-tezhi and Namwala and the people of Itezhi-tezhi do not agree with those praises and are still disappointed that they have no piped water and that road is being done in piece meals. The pontoon between Namwala and Itezhi-tezhi is still an old one …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … and a danger to the people there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, personal opinions are just that and I do not want to use this Floor to give my opinion because, I think, that two wrongs do not make a right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, this is a wrong forum. If one has a problem, it is better to go back to the drawing board and sort it out. We all came on the platform of a political party. If one feels too strong, let them quit, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: Chishimba.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the strong men on your left, left. Hon. Chishimba left. My background from school is that I have been a trade unionist. I went for national service and was the first to be elected National Youth Chairperson by all the provinces in the great UPND.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: I am tested and I am more Ila than others may think.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I know that Ila also encompasses the Lundwes, Batwa Ila and others. We are all one. We are all Ila and Tonga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, there is no one who holds people in his or her pocket. Not even I. I only represent them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, with these unnecessary sentiments being made, I will engage all those who will be indisciplined in the party. I will make sure that this is done.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, all those who do the wrong thing will continue to move in taxis which are …

Laughter

Mr Beene: … tinted because they have broken the rules.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, even on your right side, when one breaks the rules, for instance, when Hon.  Mwaanga says one thing and one does the other, he or she will have to be disciplined.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: It will also happen in our party.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! In the interest of fair debate, I would like to allow the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi to continue, but as I said before, none of you on either side of the House who hold party positions shall be allowed to threaten fellow hon. Members of Parliament, here, for things happening in your parties.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I shall not allow that. You may differ on matters of national policies, but cannot come here and threaten fellow hon. Members of Parliament with disciplinary action using this House. That is, in fact, unconstitutional.

The hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi is happy with the position he holds, but cannot use it to threaten any hon. Members of Parliament in the House.

As I said last time, when one of you, hon. Members, said something similar, I will reiterate that if I hear an hon. Member of Parliament has been victimised because of the issues being raised on the Floor of this House, action will be taken from this Chair.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, with the guidance you have given, I would like to mention that people should not use this Floor for party problems.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: I think it is crucial that we resolve our party issues within our parties, which is outside Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Member: Kakoma!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, with regard to Local Government and Housing, there is a very serious problem in this country over their royal highnesses, the chiefs. The Government undertook to buy vehicles for them, but it is necessary that if the Government is going to help them, let it buy them genuine vehicles instead of buying them wrecks from Japan. It is unfair. This is an urgent situation that needs to be addressed.

Mr Speaker, their royal highnesses are suffering with these wrecks. Let the Government consider giving these people proper transport because that is the correct thing to do.

Mr Speaker, I would like to tell the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that the people of Itezhi-tezhi also deserve a share of the cake of this country. We have not done anything to help them.

The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is supposed to implement the decentralisation programme, but it is nowhere on the ground. When are you going to do that? People are waiting. You are only getting money out of the local governments. We come from rural constituencies and that is the fact on the ground. They are completely limping with nothing going on. There are only promises for grants that are hard to come by.

Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President was in Itezhi-tezhi and was assured that the Pact is real.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the only thing that hon. Members on your right can do is to start preparing themselves. They should not get worried about our partnership. His Honour the Vice-President was told that in Itezhi-tezhi and Namwala “Chi Pact ici, chinyawi nyawi chi Pact ici”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, this means that the Pact is like locusts that are everywhere, even in the river.

Laughter

Mr Beene: All that the Government can do is pull up its socks and get our advice if its hon. Members want to come back to this Parliament.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Otherwise, it is gone.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.
____________

The House adjourned at 1814 hours until on Friday, 23rd October, 2009.