DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 23rd October, 2009

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

___________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 27th October, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2010 Budget.

Sir, on Wednesday, 28th October, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Supreme and High Court Number of Judges (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill, 28 of 2009.

On this day, the Expanded Committee on Estimates, which was mandated to examine the 2010 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, will present its report. Thereafter, the House will conclude the general policy on the Motion of Supply. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to begin consideration of individual heads of expenditure for the 2010 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 29th October, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by a presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following heads:

Head 01− Office of the President − State House;

Head 02 − Office of the Vice-President;

Head 03 − National Assembly;

Head 05 − Electoral Commission; and

Head 06 − Public Service Commission − Office of the President.

Sir, on Friday, 30th October, 2009, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Then the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will then be followed by a presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2010 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

Head 07 − Office of the Auditor-General; and

Head 08 − Cabinet Office − Office of the President.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

________

Mr Speaker: I have permitted the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development to make a ministerial statement.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON THE GOVERNMENT’S ACQUISITION OF TOTAL’S INDENI SHARES

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to brief the public through this august House regarding the Government’s intention to acquire Total Zambia Limited’s 50 per cent shares in Indeni Oil Refinery.

As hon. Members are aware, the Government and Total Zambia Limited are co-shareholders in the refinery on a 50 per cent shareholding basis. Total Zambia Limited acquired these shares in 2001 when it bought them from Agip Zambia Limited, which before then was the Government’s partner in the refinery.

When Agip Zambia Limited decided to sell off its shares in 2001, the Government had, at that time, given up its pre-emptive right to acquire these shares, hence their acquisition by Total Zambia Limited. This was purely a business transaction between these entities.

Mr Speaker, as hon. Members may also be aware, Total Zambia Limited assumed the supply of Petroleum feedstock to the refinery following the liquidation of the Zambian National Oil Company in 2002. However, early 2007, Total Zambia Limited indicated that it had done its part in supplying petroleum feedstock to the refinery and requested that the Government takes over this role. The Government therefore, took over this role from October, 2007. At about the same time, Total Zambia Limited indicated that it was considering transferring ownership of its shares in the refinery to another party and would officially inform the Government regarding this issue. In November, 2008, Total officially informed the Government that it was going to sell off its shares. As per the shareholder’s agreement, the Government has a pre-emptive right over the salel of Total Zambia Limited’s shares. Therefore, since late 2008, the Government and Total Zambia Limited have been discussing this issue. In the meantime, the Government had considered all options and decided that it would be in the best interest of the country for the Government to acquire Total Zambia Limited’s shares in the refinery. Recently, Total Zambia Limited requested the Government to have this matter concluded before the end of October, 2009.

Mr Speaker, the two parties have, therefore, been negotiating a sales agreement to transfer the Total Zambia Limited shares to the Government. I am happy to inform this House that the negotiations are going on well and we hope they will be concluded soon.

I, therefore, wish to dispel the statements being made in some quarters that the shortage of petrol that has been experienced recently is due to the fact that Total Zambia Limited is disposing of its shares. Hon. Members will recall that we have had similar challenges in the past even when Total Zambia Limited was still a co-owner in the refinery. In fact, it is true to state that full ownership of the refinery will enable the Government to take decisions about the refinery that would improve fuel supply in the country.

Mr Kambwili: Question.

Mr Konga: The move is, therefore, positive rather than negative.

Mr Speaker, allow me to take this opportunity to assure the employees of the refinery that the refinery will continue to operate as it did when Agip Zambia Limited sold its shares to Total Zambia Limited. I also wish to put it on record regarding the Government’s appreciation of the co-operation it has had with Total Zambia Limited since 2001 and the positive attitude it has shown in the sales negotiations. There is no doubt that both parties will part on a happy note. I wish to assure this august House that the Government will make an appropriate announcement to the nation once the negations are concluded.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been issued by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, by acquiring 100 per cent shares of the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited, is there a shift in Government policy on privatisation which has lamentably failed, in this country, for the past eighteen years this Government has been in power? Has the Government taken a new stand now?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, there is absolutely no shift in Government policy regarding privatisation. In the statement, I indicated that Total Zambia Limited has decided to dispose of its shares. According to the agreement between the two parties, the Government has the pre-emptive right of first refusal on those shares. Therefore, the Government is simply exercising that right by acquiring those shares.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, will the Government compensate the people whose injector pumps in their diesel vehicles and electronic pumps or the petrol propelled engines have been damaged because of their sub-standard fuel which even Total Zambia Limited has condemned? The company does not have the safety standards to produce fuel.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will note that questions to be raised should relate to quote: “points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement given by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development”.

The hon. Minister may wander off that requirement, only if he so wishes.

Mr Konga: Sir, at the moment, Total Zambia Limited is still a shareholder in Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited and, therefore, I have no comment on that statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, given the recent happenings in the fuel sector where the nation has been fed on a diet of half truths, can the hon. Minister reassure this House that the nation has absolutely nothing to fear and that there will be no further problems in the energy sector in this latest move by the Government?

Mr Konga: Sir, life is very dynamic. To assume that what happens today cannot happen tomorrow, even with the best of intentions, is not realistic.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: It is the Government’s intention to ensure that the citizens are provided for with all the requisite energy supplies, but that does not mean that challenges will not arise.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, why is there a disparity between the reasons given by Total Zambia Limited and those given by the Government on why Total Zambia Limited is pulling out? This disparity does not augur well with the Government. I would like to get an assurance. Who is telling the truth? Total Zambia Limited is pulling out because the Government has failed to meet its obligations in the maintenance of this equipment.

Mr Konga: Sir, I would like to dispel the statement that Total Zambia Limited has issued a statement as alleged by the hon. Member for Kanyama. That is a statement issued probably by some media institution and has no truth, at all, on the true position on why Total Zambia Limited is pulling out of the refinery.

Hon. Opposition Members: Why?

Mr Konga: They have told the Government that they are pulling out of the refinery.

Hon. Opposition Members: They are disinvesting in the refinery.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, a few days ago, assured the nation not to panic because there was plenty of petrol coming in and that the situation would stabilise. Why should we believe him now when they failed to meet their obligations towards the maintenance of the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company?

Mr Konga: Sir, this is also a misleading statement. If the hon. Member would care to recall when he was in this House in 2007, this House approved a sum of K42 billion for the maintenance of Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company as per agreed values with the other co-shareholder.

Beyond that, the Government actually released K81 billion. There was a supplementary of K39 billion which was spent on the rehabilitation of the refinery. It is not true to state that the Government has not invested in the rehabilitation intended to improve safety of the refinery because the Government has, as per agreement with the other co-shareholder, done its part as evidenced by the moneys that were released.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, one of the major reasons Total International has pulled out from the Indeni Oil Refinery is that the Government has not been injecting money into the company. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has the capacity to run the company once it has 100 per cent shares? What are the plans that have been put in place to run the company?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as I said, the Government released K81 billion towards the operations of the Indeni Oil Refinery. Once the Government concludes negotiations with Total Zambia Limited, it will decide whether to retain the 50 per cent shares or offer them to another partner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure us that the 50 per cent shares, once acquired, will not end up being offered to other people through corrupt means?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government will, as is the case of the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL), offer the shares to a credible partner, if it so decides.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, in view of the happenings during privatisation and the sale of public assets, I would like the hon. Minister to indicate the current value of the refinery and, therefore, what the Government hopes to pay Total Zambia Limited for the 50 per cent shares.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, that is the subject of the current negotiations between the Government and Total Zambia Limited. As I have indicated, once they have been concluded, all that information shall be made public.

Hon. Opposition Members: Value!

Mr Konga: The value is what I am saying has not been determined yet because we are still negotiating.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sichamba ( Isoka West): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister consider setting up oil reserves in places such as Mpika in the Northern Province, once the negotiations have been completed, in order to prevent the current situation from recurring?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government will definitely do so.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr R. C. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, considering the answer the hon. Minister gave with regard to valuation, I would like to know on what basis we are negotiating with Total Zambia Limited, what we are trying to achieve and how much money we will make from the sale of the 50 per cent shares?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government is not selling its shares. It is trying to acquire those shares. Those shares are supposed to have some value, but, as hon. Members are aware, at the time Total Zambia Limited acquired its shares, the refinery had some life in it, but it has deteriorated over time. The refinery has obligations and liabilities and these are the subject of discussion between Total Zambia Limited and the Government.

As I have indicated, once the negotiations have been concluded, the House and the nation will be informed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, are the fuel shortages that we are experiencing a result of failure by the management of Indeni Oil Refinery to run the refinery effectively or are they a result of lack of co-ordination between the Government and Indeni Oil Refinery which has resulted in the nation not having any strategic reserves? Would you care to tell the Zambians what the true position is?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the aspect of strategic reserves is something that the Government is not comfortable with because, through its agency, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), the Government has failed to keep stock of the fifteen days strategic reserves by the oil marketing companies. We intend to ensure that after this, the law, which was passed in this House, is complied with and used to the letter through enforcement by ERB.

As regards the lack of petrol, I indicated in my Ministerial Statement, last week, that one component had broken down prior to the maintenance regime that was supposed to have been embarked upon. This is what brought about the earlier deficit on petrol. The Government will endeavor to ensure that the inconvenience on the motoring public is as minimal as possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, while the negotiations with Total Zambia Limited are going on, what is the Government doing to ensure that the current situation, which is untenable in the petroleum industry, especially with regard to petrol, is normalised?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is true that many citizens have been inconvenienced in their quest to buy petrol. The situation arose owing to Indeni Oil Refinery having a broken down component and, as a result, not being able to produce petrol.

However, Indeni Oil Refinery had notified the Government over its intention to have scheduled maintenance in October. Therefore, during the period of the scheduled maintenance, the Government put in place measures to ensure continued supply of the various petroleum products such as petrol, diesel and kerosene.

It is deeply regrettable on the part of the Government that despite all these measures, including the Government offloading 400,000 litres of petrol on a daily basis in Lusaka alone, the queues still seem to persist. This is despite the arrangement with the oil marketing companies where they requested that, daily, they be allocated 400,000 litres in Lusaka, 200,000 litres on the Copperbelt and 100,000 for the rest of country.

The situation in other parts of the country seems to be normalising, but for Lusaka, despite its normal consumption of about 350 litres per day, the 400,000 litres that is being brought to Lusaka by the oil marketing companies is not meeting the demand. We will meet with the oil marketing companies later, today, to review their request and see whether there is a need for them to get more fuel.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

Mr Msichili: Kabushi, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I truly sympathise with my Government, considering that it does not know why this important equity partner has decided to pull out of the Indeni Oil Refinery. If the statement by the hon. Minister is anything to go by, he said the Government had released over K80 billion to assist with the rehabilitation works at the Indeni Oil Refinery. Could it be that the money that has been released is less than the total amount that was pledged in the agreement for rehabilitation works? If not, could it be that the multinational company is arm-twisting the Government?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the agreement between the Government and Total Zambia Limited was that each party should contribute US$22.5 million for the rehabilitation works at the Indeni Oil Refinery. To that effect, the Government and Total Zambia Limited played their roles. Therefore, the aspect of finances is not the reason Total Zambia Limited has decided to pull out. It is just a normal business transaction. In this country, we have companies that invest and diversify. Therefore, it is not strange that the company can pull out because, at the moment, there are many companies waiting to take over those shares. Therefore, it is normal, in business, to invest and diversify in an economy.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I am surprised by the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister because the President has, also, shown displeasure in him despite all the assurances that he has given, especially on the Floor of this House.

Sir, I would like this hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That is not polite!

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I would like the hon. Minister, once and for all, today, to explain to the nation the actual position obtaining on the issue of Total Zambia Limited. He should stop coming here with ministerial statements …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It is only the Chair who can say such things.

Laughter

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I indicated that we had a challenge of petrol in the country and we have admitted that fact all along. We have not denied that we do not have a challenge and we indicated, in the Ministerial Statement, what brought about this challenge.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I cannot get what the hon. Minister is saying because there is too much chatting on the Floor. May we listen to the hon. Minister’s reply, please.

Mr Konga: Last week, we indicated, in the statement, about the reforming unit breaking down the catalyst needed for generation at the Indeni Oil Refinery. This has created insufficient petrol stocks on the market. We have also stated the measures we have put in place to address this challenge. We have irrefutable evidence of how much fuel the Government is releasing to the oil marketing companies. If the hon. Member would care to find out, he can check that with the oil marketing companies. The Government has actually given out the quantity of fuel that has been supplied to Lusaka. I do not know why he is saying that we are not telling the truth.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, if the hon. Minister will not tell us why Total Zambia Limited is selling its shares, he still owes us an answer on why the Government is buying because the pre-emptive right is not a pre-emptive obligation. The Government is not obliged to buy from Total Zambia Limited. Is it, perhaps, because Agip Zambia Limited and Total Zambia Limited have burnt their fingers and no other reputable international oil company wants to deal with such a thoughtless bunch as our Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member will withdraw the later part of his question because it is an unparliamentary expression.

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, it is withdrawn.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member has stated, it is not an obligation, but a pre-emptive right. Therefore, the Government is purely exercising that right and I do not know what is wrong with exercising any right.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, in most cases, we experience shortages of fuel when the Indeni Oil Refinery is under routine repairs. Is the Government considering putting up a standby refinery to be used when the Indeni Oil Refinery goes under routine maintenance?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government is not considering putting up a standby refinery at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has clearly indicated to us that the Government is negotiating with Total Zambia Limited on the value of shares that it has in total. In the absence of the current balance sheet, on what premise is the Government negotiating? We need this information so that we get a true value of those shares. The current balance sheet is not known, then on what premise are you negotiating with Total Zambia Limited?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the technical officials, who are negotiating on behalf of the Government, are looking at all the available information provided and that is the information they are using to engage Total Zambia Limited. Once the technical team concludes its negotiations with Total Zambia Limited, we shall inform the Council of Ministers, who will inform the Cabinet and the House about the value of the shares. Like I have already said, at the moment, that information is known by the technical team and once they conclude the discussions, the House will be informed accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, if all the fourteen or fifteen oil marketing companies (OMCs) were allowed to import fuel, we would receive a big volume of oil in the country to ease the pressure on filling stations. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why only the big three oil marketing companies, British Petroleum (BP), Caltex and Total Zambia Limited, have been allowed to import fuel.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, even though this question has nothing to do with the sale of the Indeni Oil Refinery shares, I will try to answer it. It is on record that the Head of the Executive, His Excellency the President, reiterated that all OMCs have been allowed to import finished products. Therefore, all the companies, be it the big three or small fourteen, are free to import the product.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Magande (Chilanga):  Mr Speaker, in one of the statements issued by the hon. Minister, sometime back, we were told that the refinery is specially made with specifications that cannot allow it to take feedstock from elswhere and this is why we cannot buy crude oil from Angola. Can the hon. Minister confirm that the feedstock, which is called commingled, that goes into the Indeni Oil Refinery comes from a subsidiary of Total Zambia Limited and that although we now appear to have separated ourselves from that company, Zambia will still remain dependent on Total Zambia Limited for the supply of feedstock?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is true that Indeni Oil Refinery uses commingled feedstock. This stock comprises about 50 per cent crude oil, naphtha and condensate. It is not correct to state that these products are supplied by a subsidiary of Total Zambia Limited though they could be. However, all I can confirm is that in 2007, the Government entered into a two year contract with Independent Petroleum Group (IPG) of Kuwait, to supply the commingled feedstock. Where IPG-Kuwait buys this feedstock is basically a business issue. What is important is that the Government receives the commingled feedstock from the supplier, who was competitively procured by the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA).

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, recently, the hon. Minister announced that the Government had waived duty on imported fuel. I would like to find out whether this benefit will be passed on to the consumer.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, most hon. Members have already debated the issue of resources for the Treasury to develop this country. In its quest to raise resources, the Government imposes various duties and taxes as a way of collecting revenue which goes towards development, among others, of the roads in Kabushi. The waiving of duty on imported petroleum products was decided on together with the OMCs to make the cost of the products that they import on a par with those imported by the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabushi.

Interruptions

Mr Msichili: Again?

Mr Speaker: You have already asked your question. The hon. Member for Ndola Central.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to declare that at one time, I was running an OMC. According to the Act and the Ministerial Statement, reserving fuel is the responsibility of the OMCs, but they do not have enough storage facilities. The Government has constructed adequate storage facilities which can accommodate more than 50 million liters, which is more than the country’s two months’ consumption. Why does the Government not start reserving fuel so that when there is a crisis like this present one, we do not experience the shortage we are experiencing?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I indicated in my earlier response that it is true that the enforcement of some laws regarding strategic reserves by various OMCs is something that the Government has not successfully worked on through the Energy Regulation Board (ERB). We must revise this initiative and ensure that the law is complied with by OMCs.

Mr Speaker, the same law dictates that these OMCs keep oil reserves although they can have hospitality arrangements with people who have storage facilities. The storage facilities that the Government has on the Copperbelt and that the hon. Member has talked about are for diesel. The Government intends to use these storage facilities as we go towards achieving national uniform prices for petroleum products.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister admitted that ERB has failed the Government. A statutory instrument was put in place to enforce the law that all OMCs shall store fifteen days’ fuel. The Government, furthermore, charges a fee per litre bought by every Zambian to build reserves, which they said would cost about K500 billion. I would like to know what has happened to that money because about K60 is being collected for each litre bought.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the money that the hon. Member is talking about is collected through ERB. Often times, this money is used to cushion the impact of the ever-escalating international prices of petroleum products. As hon. Members of the House may recall, since November, 2008, the prices of petroleum products in this country, despite the prices going up on the international market, have remained the same.

Hon. Opposition Members: The prices went down.

Mr Konga: The prices went down, but went up again. The price is now at US$70,000 from US$54,000 per barrel. Despite the increase of prices on the international market, the hon. Members are enjoying the prices of November, 2008 because of a subsidy from this same source.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out to what extent the Government has taken due diligence before acquiring these shares from Total Zambia Limited.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government is not buying per se. It is purely exercising its rights. It is contained in the agreement that if the partner wants to sell shares, the Government has first refusal on those shares. After the value has been determined, through the negotiations which are going on, the Government will exercise that right on those shares.

Sir, the Government cannot undertake its due diligence because it has the right to access those shares. The Government has the right to ask for the shares first before they are given to a third party. That is what the Government is doing.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East ): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how the Government hopes to sell the shares whose value it does not know. Why did it take a point of order for the Government to brief the nation on the state of affairs regarding the sale of shares by Total Zambia Limited.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the nation would have been informed once the negotiations were concluded. It is inappropriate not to inform the nation through this august House. Therefore, I cannot come here to inform the House with half information. We must conclude the discussions and know the value of the shares then, we can appropriately inform the nation. Otherwise, what will be the basis of communication if the discussions have not been concluded? It is therefore, on that basis that we have said the Government will, again, come to inform the nation, through this Hous,e once the discussions have been concluded.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr G. B. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the Government intends to do after it finishes its negotiations with Total Zambia Limited because I am of the view that once the shares are bought by the Government, this Government will not run the refinery efficiently as it has been proved in the past. Why can the Government not offload 50 per cent of the shares to indigenous Zambians?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr G. B. Mwamba: I am sure there are a lot of us who can actually run the company efficiently instead of, again …

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development.

Interruptions

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I would like to welcome my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central, to this House. Yes, that is what we are going to do.

Interruptions

Mr Konga:  I said that the Government must get the shares and afterwards, the Cabinet will decide how those shares should be disposed of. Therefore, we have not yet reached that part of the bridge for us to start crossing it.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what plans the Government is putting in place to ensure that there is efficiency in the Ministry of Energy and Water Development and also at Indeni Oil Refinery so as to ensure that the company operates cost effectively and efficiently when the Government acquires 100 per cent shares.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that follow-up question.

Sir, the Government is committed to ensuring that the operations of the Indeni Oil Refinery are improved through, among others, staff training programmes, financial support as well as various staff improvement programmes.

Mr Speaker, the Government is still deciding whether to keep the shares of the Indeni Oil Refinery on behalf of the Zambians or offload them on the stock exchange and offer them to a third partner. All these are options which the Government has not yet decided upon. At this stage, we are only exercising the right to acquire those shares from Total Zambia Limited because they are being disposed of.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! More than thirty questions have been raised on this subject. Is there anything new really?

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the OMCs have been told to supply fuel to filling stations at the time motorists are fast asleep. By the time they wake up, they are told that fuel is finished. Why are you encouraging that?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, through ERB, the Government directed OMCs to distribute fuel even in the evenings, that is, beyond the normal stipulated time of fuel distribution. The objectives were to try to shorten the long queues that had formed. The OMCs were being supplied with fuel on a regular basis to try to meet the demand, but this issue is being reviewed constantly. The Government is aware that it is contravening safety standards. This will be reviewed and, where necessary, we shall revert to the old system of only supplying fuel during the day.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS

TELEVISION LICENCE FEES COLLECTED BY THE ZAMBIA NATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORTATION (ZNBC) IN 2007/2008

148. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services:

(a) how much money was collected by the Zambia  National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) from 2007 to 2009 in television licence fees, year by year;

(b) how much money the Government released to ZNBC as grants in the same period;

(c) when new board members would be appointed;

(d) what the financial status of ZNBC was as of 30th September, 2009 and

(e) when the corporation would become financially self-reliant.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, from January 2007 to June 2009, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) collected a total of K12,147,082,131.81 in licence fees. The breakdown is as follows:

Period Amount
     (K)

January to December 2007   4,229,683,349.30
January to December 2008   4,871,695,345.66
January to June 2009   3,045,703,436.85

Grand Total 12,147,082,131.81

During the same period, the Government released a total of K8,608,472,560.00. The breakdown is as follows:

Period Revenue Grants Capital Grants Total Amount
          (K)         (K)        (K)
January to December 
2007 840,000,000.00 2,976,090,800.00 3,816,090,800.00
January to December 
2008 310,000,000.00 K2,337,381,760.00 2,647,381,760.00
January to June
2009 120,000,000.00 K2,025,000,000.00 2,145,000,000.00

Grand Total   8,608,472,560.00

The appointment of a new board is under way with the appointment of an Adhoc Appointments Committee that will recommend nominees to the hon. Minister who, in turn, will submit his choice to Parliament for ratification.

The financial status of the corporation by 30th June, 2009 was as follows:

(i) Profitability

By 30th June, 2009, the corporation achieved a surplus of K2 billion for the quarter though accumulated losses stood at K41 billion.

(ii) Liquidity Position Working Capital

The corporation’s liquidity position continues to be weak and by 30th June, 2009, the working capital position stood at negative K58 billion.

(iii) Assets (current and concurrent)

The total asset base for both current and non-current, by 30th June, 2009, stood at K65 billion.

(iv)  Shareholders’ Fund

By 30th June 2009, this stood at negative K17 billion.

(v) Debt Stock

The corporation’s debt stock, by 30th June, 2009, stood at K82 billion out of which K64.7 billion relates to statutory debts.

Mr Speaker, owing to the social mandate of the corporation, it is unlikely that the corporation can be self-reliant. As a public broadcaster, the corporation shall rely on the Government for financial support.

Though the asset base of the corporation is growing, there is a need for an injection of fresh working capital.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, looking at the financial position of ZNBC, my interpretation is that the company is insolvent. It means it can go into liquidation at any time. Will the hon. Minister indicate to this House how the Government intends to solve all these financial problems?

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that ZNBC runs on a profitable basis, hence the need for us to restructure ZNBC. The restructuring programme is going on.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the business of television depends on advertisements. Is the hon. Minister aware that because of the Government’s interference in the way ZNBC runs, it has affected its business so much that people cannot continue advertising with ZNBC because it only shows the Ruling Party and very few attractive movies?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, to the contrary, the Government does not interfere in ZNBC operations.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: ZNBC operations are purely professional.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Whatever programmes that are running are running on a professional basis. ZNBC has been performing well. It needs to be supported and to move forward in the restructuring.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, the problems in ZNBC …

Mr Speaker: Order! You are starting to debate. What is your question?

Mr Kapeya: The question is: the problems in ZNBC are due to the current board’s failure to propel the institution to prosperity. Why did the Government remove senior management instead of starting with the members of the board? In so doing, even the poor news manager was affected.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, all restructuring programmes have a given way and direction to go. The stakeholders and shareholders felt it was necessary to start where the board started from.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, as Hon. D. Mwila mentioned, ZNBC is insolvent. Where will the Government get the funds to inject into Channel 2 which is on trial presently when, in fact, it has failed to run the current one which is insolvent?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, ZNBC has undertaken a number of plans that are going to mature and bring resources to the organisation in future, and Channel 2, which is being tested now, will also be part and parcel of the revenue generation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister stated that a total amount of K12.147 billion was collected and yet the amount given to ZNBC totals K8 billion, what has happened to the K4 billion which was collected as television licence fees? Why has this not gone to the institution and where has it gone?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the funds for licences are also used to support many other areas of the operations of ZNBC, including radio and, in certain cases, the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS). I agree that ZNBC receives its money and the other parts of operations also receive certain amounts of the money.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out …

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: I thank you, Sir. Mr Speaker, I would like to know, from the hon. Minister, whether in the process of making a new board, he can seriously consider that the new board has 50 per cent female and 50 per cent male representation, and that the chairperson be female because females have, so far, proved to be better managers than men.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the current board is sharing the structures of 40 per cent women and 60 per cent men. As a ministry, the need for us to be gender sensitive is real. Therefore, of course, there will be positions for women. However, I do not understand the second part because every Zambian, whether male or female, is capable of running an institution such as ZNBC.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the term of office of the ZNBC Board expired four years ago and, if he is aware, why is he holding on to those who have failed to run the institution for so long?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, as you are aware, the issues of ZNBC regarding the Independent Broadcasting Authority, which have been going on for some time, had to go to litigation, through the High Court and the Supreme Court, and finally, there was a ruling that entails us to streamline the operations of ZNBC.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, when you pay, it will show. I would like to find out exactly when ZNBC is going to launch the second channel.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the ZNBC second channel is on trial now and once the trials have been completed, we are going to launch it to provide more entertainment, advertisements and information for our people. Within a few weeks, it should be able to come through. At the moment, it is going to be from Livingstone all the way to the Copperbelt and, thereafter, through to the rural areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister is aware that the Zambian people stopped watching ZNBC, hence the business community’s move to stop taking advertisements to this company. They have done this because they know that the people will not see them. What is this Government doing to restore the people’s confidence in ZNBC so that they are able to collect revenue from big businesses? The Government should also stop interfering in the affairs as we saw in the case of Chubili who was fired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Munali has no evidence whatsoever that Zambians have stopped watching ZNBC. She has not carried out a survey that she can present to give that position. Our survey, however, shows that there is even greater improvement because many people are watching ZNBC today.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I would like to say that the soap, Kabanana, is rated as one of the best in Africa, today, hence its going on Digital Satellite Television (DSTv) for the rest of Africa to watch. That is how popular ZNBC is.

Mr Speaker, we are opening Channel 2 because of the popularity of ZNBC and to ensure that Zambians have better entertainment and, indeed, a platform for them to advertise even more. I cannot comment on the restructuring problems that are going on with regard to individuals at ZNBC because that is for the management and board to sort out.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, in answer to part (e) of the question, which was with regard to whether the corporation would become financially self-reliant, ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! I want to listen.

Dr Scott: … Mr Speaker, the response given by the hon. Deputy Minister was that because of the social mandate of ZNBC, it is unlikely that it will become financially self- reliant. However, in recent weeks, we have also heard stories about the Government media, including ZNBC, possibly being privatised. Can the hon. Minister tell us if there is a chilingalinga somewhere at work in this Government where one head is pulling one way and the other head the other way? How do you privatise something which is a loss maker?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, there is no chilingalinga on this side, but on your left.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: That is why there are difficulties.

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, on our side, we are totally committed to all areas of our pronouncements and, therefore, we are focused on what we are doing at ZNBC and when the time comes for any of the public media institutions to be privatised, the nation will know.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, there are independent television stations in this country. For example, there is Muvi Tv, Mobi and other stations which run profitably without a single grant from the Government. I would like to find out from the Government why the private television stations are running profitably when ZNBC, even with the grants and all the support, is not running profitably. I would also like to find out whether this Government is considering giving grants to some of these private stations because of the good job and the quality service they are delivering.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the Government has liberalised the media industry and, therefore, there are many private television stations that are currently operating. Some are doing very well while others are not. I have visited nearly all of them in the country and I have seen their operational capabilities and, therefore, it would be a wholesale statement to say that all of them are running profitably. There are those being fronted by Zambians whilst the funding is coming from outside and there are also those that are purely Zambian and are running well. It is important that we encourage them to run and, as a Government, we do not currently have a policy that provides for the provision of grants to private television stations because these are established as business entities by private people. What we have done is put in place an enabling environment for people to do business and it is working well.

I thank you, Sir.
 
Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services whether he has any plans to give the Kitwe Zambia National Broadcasting Services (ZNBC) Studios a channel other than being at the mercy of the studios in Lusaka  for some time to broadcast. This is in consideration of the fact that they can cover the northern part of Zambia.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the introduction of the ZNBC second channel will provide added incentives for the Kitwe studios to participate in a broader spectrum for us to have good programmes.

I thank you, Sir.

BUILDING OF A HOUSE FOR CHIEF AMUKENA ISITEKETO IN KAOMA

149. Ms Limata asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether there were any plans to build a new house for Chief Amukena Isiteketo in Kaoma District.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to build Chief Amukena a house. The current practice, which has been there since the colonial days, is that subjects are the ones charged with the responsibility of building palaces for their traditional leaders. In addition, customs and traditions differ from clan to clan or tribe to tribe, regarding the construction and maintenance of the palaces of the traditional leaders. Some of the customs demand that once the chief dies, the palace be demolished and another one be built for a new chief, whilst others demand that when a chief dies, the one who takes over easily takes up the same palace.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing for the answer given. However, we, as Lozis, do not shift from one palace to another upon the death of a chief and, therefore, we want a permanent structure. In that regard, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Government will build the chief a house because the one in which he is staying is in a very bad state.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for the concern she has over the chief. I have stated in my response that the Government has no plans to construct a palace for Chief Amukena, but the members in that traditional leadership and subjects are free to ensure that a good house is constructed for the chief. I would, therefore, encourage the hon. Member to address that concern and provide resources and also lobby for support from the other members of the chiefdom to ensure that the chief is adequately accommodated.

I thank you, Sir.

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ASSESSMENT OF MANDA HILL SHOPPING COMPLEX

150. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) whether the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) carried out an Environmental Impact Assessment for the proposed redevelopment of the Manda Hill Shopping Complex in Lusaka by High Towers Zambia Limited; and

(b) if the ECZ did not carry out the assessment, why the Government allowed the construction to proceed.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms V. Tembo): Mr Speaker, the ECZ does not carry out Environmental Impact Assessments (EIA) on projects. The assessments are either carried out by the developers, if they have the necessary competencies, or a consultant engaged by the developer. Thereafter, the assessment prepared is submitted to the ECZ for approval.

The ECZ maintains a data base of consultants who carry out EIAs from which a developer can choose, but developers are free to use a consultant of their choice. The terms of reference for the environmental assessment study must be approved by the ECZ as a way of ensuring that the provisions of Statutory Instrument No. 28 of 1997 are complied with.

In the case of the proposed redevelopment of the Manda Hill Shopping Complex in Lusaka, an EIA was conducted by D. H. Engineering, as a consultant, on behalf of High Towers Zambia Limited, who are the developers of the Manda Hill Shopping Complex. This was done after the ECZ approved the terms of reference of the proposed redevelopment.

Mr Speaker, High Towers Zambia Limited submitted an EIA document to the ECZ for consideration and, in the meantime, requested to start development by undertaking some preliminary works as the public consultation was being undertaken in view of the fact that the wet season would disturb the construction works. This request was granted.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to inform this House whether all the procedures were followed according to the law.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Hon. Members: Tourism.

Mr Speaker: Aah! He did his part. Now, it is Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thought you were giving me an additional responsibility. However, yes, the law was followed. There was, however, an administrative arrangement between the ECZ and High Towers Zambia Limited to the effect that some preliminary works could start, while awaiting the final approval by the Projects Approval Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Just to guide the House, maybe, for your own information, there used to be a Ministry of Information Broadcasting and Tourism. That is where it comes from.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, construction sites are a source of dust and …

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The rules of this House are that no hon. Member will give false information on the Floor of this House. The hon. Minister stated that all the procedures regarding the law were followed, and yet Statutory Instrument No. 28 of 1997 states that before any construction of any building starts, it has to be approved by the ECZ.

Mr Speaker, the advertisement for a developer was put in the Zambia Daily Mail on 25th August, 2009. The ECZ indicated that the deadline would be 23rd September, 2009.

Mr Speaker, I just want to quote from the statutory instrument which states that:

“The developer shall, prior to the submission of the environmental impact statement to the council, take all measures necessary to seek the views of the people in the communities which will be affected by the project. In seeking the views of the community, in accordance with sub-regulations (1), the developer shall publicise the intended project.”

Mr Speaker, my concern is that the project was started before the approval. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this House that all the procedures as stipulated by the law were followed when they were not? I need your serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chipili, who asked Question No. 150 on the Order Paper, having listened to the reply by the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, is not satisfied. He is, in fact, saying that the hon. Minister gave a false answer. In so doing, the hon. Minister has misled this House and the nation.

As this is a matter of the law, I do not consider it prudent for me to rule on it immediately. I shall study the point of order and the documentation which I noticed the hon. Member for Chipili has not laid on the Table of the House. If he does so, that will be part of the documentation.

Mr D. Mwila stood up.

Mr Speaker: Hold on. I shall study it and, if necessary, a prima facie case may be established. Based on that, further steps will be taken. You may now lay the documents on the Table of the House.

Mr D. Mwila laid the document on the Table.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, construction sites are a source of dust, especially when workers are working from certain heights and this may lead to chest infections and eye irritation. What measures have been put in place to ensure that people who are doing business at Manda Hill are protected from such infections while this construction is taking place?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, that is why if you went to Manda Hill, today, you would find that there is a reduction in activities. This is one of the effects resulting from dust and noise that the hon. Member has referred to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, in her response, the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources talked about a statutory instrument that the ministry used in authorising High Towers Zambia Limited to go ahead with the construction. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this is not the statutory instrument that has, for a long time, been questioned and which is in conflict with the principle Act which the ministry has assured this Parliament it was in the process of amending? We were given a time limit that has expired. Therefore, what steps is the hon. Minister taking to ensure that the instrument is signed?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the statutory instrument being referred to is Statutory Instrument No. 28 of 1997 regarding the regulations. The statutory instrument that the hon. Member is talking about deals with the powers of the Minister to receive appeals and it is being attended to. His Honour the Vice-President has already made an undertaking and the statutory instrument is going to be signed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: We would like to go back to the hon. Member for Chipili, who was called upon to lay a document on the Table of the House. My attention is being drawn to the fact that, in fact, he has not laid a suitable document on Table of the House, but only a cutting from a newspaper. The hon. Member for Chipili is required, now, to lay on the Table of the House the complete issue of the newspaper.

Mr D. Mwila: I do not have it now, but I can bring it.

Mr Speaker: You could not have raised a point of order before you were sure that it was the correct documentation. Therefore, there is a technicality here.

Mr D. Mwila: I will lay it on the Table, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! There is no dialogue in here. If you have the newspaper, lay it on the Table of the House.

Mr D. Mwila: I can bring it to you, now.

Mr Speaker: When?

Mr D. Mwila: I can go to the Library and get it.

Mr Speaker: Which Library?

Mr D. Mwila: I will get a newspaper, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Where is it? Lay it on the Table of the House.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, if you can give me five minutes, I will bring it.

Mr Speaker: But not from my Library, no. The documents there are secured. They cannot be moved and laid on my own Table as my documentation. Five minutes beginning counting now.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, allowing a project to go ahead minus approval of an EAI may have serious consequences as has been the case with many issues in our country. I would like to learn from the hon. Minister, having granted the permission for that construction to go ahead without an EIA and worse that the works have gone beyond the permitted preliminary works because pillars are being put up and the building has been constructed, whether upon confirmation that the EIA has found fault with the project, the construction will be demolished.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the document that is under discussion is an EIA.

 

 

The process starts with the developer by indicating to the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) that they want to develop, extend or rehabilitate an existing project. Thereafter, the ECZ will give guidelines. The developer will then use the guidelines to do what is called scoping. This means discussing with the stakeholders and communities. After they have done this, they will come up with terms of reference to be taken to ECZ for approval. They will then come up with a draft Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) which will be taken to ECZ for comments. After this, the developer, using a consultant, will come up with a final document to be presented to ECZ which will call for public comments. If ECZ feels that there is a need to hold a public hearing and ascertain whether or not this particular project has a negative impact on the environment, they will do so.

Therefore, the administrative arrangement that was there between ECZ and High Towers Zambia Limited was that they would lay the pipes for water and start doing some minor works before the final approval. If finally ECZ approves, the developers will, at that stage, agree with ECZ.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the EIA has approved the final stage. What exactly is meant by preliminary works because at the Manda Hill Centre Limited, the building next to the BP Filling Station has almost been completed and it is being roofed? I heard the hon. Minister say that the High Towers Zambia Limited was to only lay water pipes.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, this is one of those cases where the ECZ management agreed they should do works to a certain extent without them being monitored. It is true that the works at the Manda Hill Centre Limited, at the moment, have gone way beyond the works that they had initially agreed, but as I have said, the works have scaled down now. If you go to Manda Hill Centre Limited, you will discover that the major works have stopped and there are no further construction works being carried out, pending the final approval by the Lusaka City Council Projects Approvals Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, we have seen that most of the works at Manda Hill Centre Limited have been completed. According to the Environmental Council of Zambia Principal Act, has the ECZ or Minister got the power to give a go ahead to a project before ECZ approves as the case is at Manda Hill Centre Limited?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I have said that the works at Manda Hill Centre Limited have now gone way beyond the initial preliminary works that were permitted. I also want to state that, indeed, the powers to give approval rest with the Lusaka City Council Projects Approvals Committee. I stand here to represent the Government because I am the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources charged with the responsibility to supervise ECZ.

Let me also assure the hon. Member that it is not this Minister who granted permission to continue with the works and start developing. The decision was made by the ECZ management.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: When business was suspended, the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources had just finished answering a follow-up question to Question 150 on the Order Paper. Is there any debate?

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, following the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, it is very clear that some people at ECZ did not do their job. What action is the hon. Minister going to take against those officers who allowed the situation at Manda Hill Centre Limited and whose actions have led people to think it is the hon. Minister who authorised that illegality?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, this is obviously one of the cases where you have to do what is necessary. The developments have gone to an extent where not much can be done in terms of starting afresh. However, I have instructed the ECZ and the council to immediately carry out the necessary action to deal with the case. I have also given instruction to the ECZ and the council to sit tonight and look at the assessment study that has been made. If it qualifies, they must give approval so that the works can continue.

Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that this country is hungry for development …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … and we should not use the process of environmental impact study to stifle development. That project as it is provides hope for the people of Lusaka. There will be job creation and economic activities that are going to impact on poverty reduction. I have taken it upon myself to instruct the council to sit tonight. It does not matter what time they will finish, but by the time I wake up in the morning, I want to hear that they have done the needful.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________________

MOTION

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

(Debate resumed)

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my word to the debate on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, to start with, I would like to congratulate the newly elected Member of Parliament for Kasama Central Constituency. I welcome him to the House. I would like to advise that he should be focused so that as he listens to some debates in this House, he is not swayed to think the way others think. We have all come to this House for the betterment and development of this nation.

Mr Speaker, let me start my debate on the Budget by talking about issues relating to health. I have noticed that in this year’s Budget, there is an increment in the allocation to the health sector and that most of this money will come from within. This Government should not, however, feel proud that it has managed to source funding locally. It has done so because it has been forced by the donors who have withdrawn funding from the Ministry of Health.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mrs Phiri: Do not just say “question!” because I know that what I am saying are facts and the people in Msanzala Constituency are listening. The hon. Member for Msanzala who has shouted “question!” should realise that we have a radio that reaches most parts of this country where people are dying because there are no medicines. I hope the people in Msanzala have medicine.

Hon. Opposition Member: They do not.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, when we come to this House and highlight what is happening in our areas, it is not because we are looking for jobs or want to chase the hon. Ministers from their positions, but because we want to help them. In fact, I do not even admire to be a Minister because when I look at some of these hon. Ministers, I notice that they have lost weight after being elevated from the Backbench to where they are. I do not know the reason for that. Maybe it is worry.

Hon. MMD Member: What about you?

Mrs Phiri: Some of us were born thin like this.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: No matter how much we eat, our bodies never change.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, may I please be protected because some of these people shouting at me …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You are protected, but do not provoke the situation …

Mrs Phiri interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are debating the Budget, but once you begin to talk about individuals, you will provoke the situation. Debate the Budget.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, when we bring issues of health to this House, it is not because we want to discredit the people leading the ministries. We bring facts as they are obtaining on the ground.

Mr Speaker, as I go to the next point, I would like to declare interest because of my experience with regard to what I have to say. My own child was suspected of having swine flu. I did not understand the gravity of this illness although some hon. Ministers have educated us about the disease. I did not understand until my child was suspected of having swine flu and they said the patient was quarantined, that is, the patient is to be kept at home. That is why I have declared interest.

Mr Speaker, when the child was taken to UTH, can you believe that even the cough mixture which was prescribed was not available? Vitamin E tablets were also not available and I had to resort to the National Assembly Clinic. I thank God that I am an hon. Member of Parliament and can come and collect these drugs from here.

Mr Speaker, in my constituency, I represent a lot of people, most of whom are orphans and others have worked for this country for a long time, but have not got their retirement packages and cannot afford to buy these drugs.

The hon. Minister of Health and his staff should educate us that when a patient is quarantined, it means that they are to stay at home.

At the moment, the World Health Organisation (WHO) is only giving medicines to UTH and, therefore, whoever gets sick has to be referred there.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Some of the people on my right are not listening and are consulting loudly. I want to listen and I think you should listen too.

You may continue.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I have a concern with regard to swine flu. I am sure that most people know that this outbreak has affected many secondary and primary schools. Students are almost closing and some schools stopped parents from visiting. I would like to know what is going to happen because parents are not allowed to visit their children and we have not heard any statement on what measures have been put in place to completely eradicate swine Flu or whether it has been eradicated.

My concern is that when these children go home on holiday, they may spread the infection to other towns where there is no occurrence of the disease.

Mr Daka interjected.

Mrs Phiri: Hon. Minister of Lands, please, listen to what I am saying. Your people in Msanzala are suffering, but you are just making noise here.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I will not allow that, hon. Minister. What the hon. Member debating has said is true. I listen, but sometimes keep quiet just because I want the debate to flow. However, once you begin interjecting when somebody is debating, then you invite that kind of interjection.

I appeal to hon. Members in the House to be orderly.

You may continue.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, my worry is that these children will spread the disease to other towns. We have not been told anything about what is going to happen. Will the schools suspected to have an occurrence of swine flu keep the children until they are sure that they are free of the disease? That is one of the questions.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the Cancer Disease Centre at the UTH. I know of people who need chemotherapy. I am not a medical doctor, but I have documents …

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: Honourable, you have started again.

The Deputy Chairperson: Just ignore him and address the Chair.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, at the UTH, there are situations where some patients who need immediate help are given appointments that are a month away before they can receive attention. Is this the way we are going to operate?

Mr Speaker, I do not dispute when the hon. Minister says that the drugs are being dispatched to clinics. Maybe that is the information he has. However, what I am saying is true because I am on the ground attending these clinics.

Following Mr Speaker’s ruling, I am happy that even the people in my constituency are listening to my debate right now and I would urge them …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I will appeal to the Leader of Government Business in the House to appreciate that it would be very bad for me to ask the hon. Minister to leave the Chamber. We must set a good example. If we consult, let us do so quietly.

You may continue.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for protecting me from the undisciplined Executive.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, no!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: You see, that is the problem of commenting on a ruling. Once a ruling has been made by the Chair, do not qualify it.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, I thank God that I am an hon. Member of Parliament in a constituency that has three television stations. These are the Zambia National Broadcasting Services (ZNBC), Muvi Television and Mobi Television. There are also radio stations in my constituency. I will use them as much as I can to inform the people about what is going on. When people are misled, I will ensure that they get the right information because the functions of the media are to inform, educate and entertain.

Mr Speaker, as I am debating, people from my constituency are listening. I am urging patients who are given prescriptions for cough syrup and Vitamin E, to come to my constituency office, which has been provided for me through this Parliament, so that they are taken to the right people for them to see what patients are getting at clinics.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the Ministry of Home Affairs. The budget provision for the Ministry of Home Affairs in the Yellow Book is not enough. This saddens me because police officers are the ones who do all kinds of jobs. Police officers have been turned into sobelenges. They are like vigilantes of the UNIP days, and yet they get very little money.

Mr Speaker, yesterday, I attended a funeral for one of the police officers and I was shocked to learn that police officers are respected when in death although they get meagre resources.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: I learnt that their bodies are even taken to St Ann’s Funeral Parlour and a burial site has been bought for them at Mutumbi, which is a very expensive burial place. I wondered why we could not give them that money when they are still alive.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mrs Phiri: I believe that if I died today, my body can be buried even without a coffin. It does not matter because my soul will go back to my creator and what is important for now is how I live. If I have to eat, I should eat now.

Sir, I am lucky that I know what I am talking about because my constituency houses a very big camp called Chelstone Police Camp. It is sad to see the houses for these police officers. I am glad that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has been to Chelstone Police Camp and has seen how our officers live. The Government is building new houses for them, but why has it neglected the project which was already started? If the houses were completed, today, the lives of those officers could have improved. I can tell you that when what is in the hearts of those officers comes out, you will not contain it, especially that we do not even have fuel at the moment. These are facts.

Mr Daka: Give an example!

Mrs Phiri: Whether you want examples or not, it is up to you to address this issue because I give factual information and stand by what I say. If the Ministry Home Affairs was well equipped, even the complaints against youths patronising bars could be curbed. I hope the Decentralisation Policy will be implemented so that, in our wards, we have council police officers who will work in conjunction with the Ministry of Home Affairs to arrest youths who drink excessively.

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: You can comment like that, but I am worried because I am a mother. One day, my children will follow what their friends are doing and I may find my son or daughter, who is nine years old, totally drunk. I would not want such a thing to happen because whatever we are doing, as parents, is investing for the betterment of our children. What is the benefit of leaving children who are drunkards on earth? I am worried because even the Government does not care. How I wish the hon. Minister of Home Affairs could make a simple pronouncement, instructing police officers to start arresting children who patronise bars before the Decentralisation Policy comes into effect. Definitely, as Lusaka City Council, we are going to implement it because we have enough resources.

Mr Daka interjected.

Mrs Phiri:  That is why we have people who continue talking in the background. These are facts.

The Lusaka City Council has buildings which the Government has not been paying rentals for. A good example is where the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is operating from. That is a council building, but the Government has never paid rentals. We challenged the hon. Minister, when he visited the Lusaka City Council, to address that issue. Very soon, we are going to evict them because they have not been paying rentals so that we collect revenue and invest in the Lusaka City Council.

Mr Speaker, even if the budget allocation for the Lusaka City Council is very little, if it is released on time and planned for properly, it can put to good use. For example, when did the Lusaka City Council last get its grant? The hon. Minister should tell us when he comes to respond. When was the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) released? How do you expect us to operate? It is on record that a minister directed the Lusaka City Council to release K2.1 billion. This shows that the Lusaka City Council is able to raise funds, but it is the Government that is misdirecting it. This Government does obey the law, but it just wakes up and does things they it wants.

Mr Kambwili: Talk about the pact!

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, as I conclude, …

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Yes, let me talk about the pact …

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: … because I am part of it. It makes me sad to see some hon. Members, who were rejected by their constituencies, when we were campaigning, but the party stood on their side, claim that they are popular. Some even cried. Today, they can come to this House and tell the people that they are popular.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: I can go and stand.

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: Test your popularity by resigning today so that we go for by-elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Wakula, mwaice!

Mrs Musokotwane: Now you are talking.

Mrs Phiri: Resign today so that you can test your popularity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Well spoken!

Mrs Phiri: We have seen great men like Hon. Chimumbwa and Hon. Dr Chishimba leave this House, but you are still seated there getting paid on false pretence.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute on the Motion on the Floor. Before, I go into the details of the Budget Speech, I would be failing in my duties if I did not congratulate Hon. Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba, popularly known as GBM …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … on whacking the Ruling Party, MMD, in the Kasama Central Parliamentary By-election. Sir, the victory of Hon. Mwamba demonstrates that the pact is working.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: We have been demonstrating this in other parts of the country…

Mrs Musokotwane: Yes!

Mr Kakoma: … by winning other elections at the Local Government level.

Mrs Musokotwane: Correct!

Mrs Masebo: You rigged in Kasama!

Mr Kakoma: This is a sign that the people of Zambia have embraced the pact.

Mrs Musokotwane: Correct!

Mr Kakoma: They have given the go ahead to the leadership of the UPND/PF pact to uproot the corrupt MMD Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Apart from winning the Kasama Central By-election, we have also won elections in Kasiya Ward in Livingstone which was held by the MMD. We grabbed Itezhi-tezhi which was under the MMD. We recently grabbed Maramba which was also the MMD. Ka’ngwena, in Solwezi, was also MMD, but we grabbed it as well. We have grabbed Kabompo, and Luangwa which is just a few kilometres from Lusaka.

Mrs Musokotwane: How can you say that the pact is not working?

Mr Kakoma: We are going to grab all the seats from the MMD. The trend will continue. Soon, we are going to Solwezi Central and we will grab the seat from them.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, the people of Solwezi recently showed the door to the MMD in Ka’ngwena by voting them out and they are ready for some more action in Solwezi Central.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say something about undisciplined leaders of the pact who rush to Parliament and start abusing the Floor of this House.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You know, once we begin going that route, we will fail to adhere to the advice that the Hon. Mr Speaker gave. You are not supposed to question any member of your party or group who says something on the Floor of this House, even if you disagree with him or her.

I am sorry, but you have to live with that. Do not be seen to be threatening people of your membership who express, in the House, certain views which you may not agree with. Therefore, please, Hon. Kakoma, can you go the other route.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, the Budget before us is very bad. It is a Budget formulated on a very weak foundation, and from the start, it is headed for failure. In his speech, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated that domestic revenues, especially import duties, are declining and will continue to decline. This means the Government will fail to raise the necessary revenue to support the programmes and projects that they have lined up in the Budget. 

In addition, this Budget is based on very shaky donor assistance. The donors have already demonstrated and told us that they are not willing to continue financing the corrupt MMD Government, …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kakoma: …by withholding their support to the health sector, which is key in this country. 

Mr Speaker, this Government should take this decision by the donors very seriously. It appears that this Government is trying to shadowbox the donor community which will land this country in very serious problems.

Mr Speaker, the little resources in the Budget are not being shared fairly. Time and time again, I have stood on the Floor of this House to complain about the unfair distribution of the national cake. This Budget has nothing for the people of the North-Western Province. As a leader from the North-Western Province, I do not have the slightest reason to support it.

Mr Speaker, this Government made a promise to the people of Zambezi in Senior Chief Ndungu’s area of the North-Western Province. When the late Republican President was alive, he wrote to Senior Chief Ndungu, promising him that the Government would construct a bridge on the Zambezi River. Going through previous budgets, and especially this one which comes after the death of President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, it is a clear demonstration that this new administration is totally battering the promises made by President Mwanawasa. There is no provision anywhere for the construction of the bridge on the Zambezi River. Worse still, the Government has not kept the promise to construct another bridge on the Kashishi River, which was partly washed away by the rains several years ago in Zambezi West Constituency. Just this year, the remaining part of the bridge, which was wooden, was gutted by fire. No serious attempts have been made in this year’s Budget to address this problem.

Mr Speaker, going through this Budget, I see that the Government is not serious about honouring its promise to complete tarring the Mutanda/Chavuma Road.  As in the past, in this year’s Budget, the Government has decided to give the people of the North-Western Province crumbs from the national cake by providing a small amount of money to continue tarring the Mutanda/Chavuma Road.

Mr Speaker, we have heard how, in other areas, billions are being allocated to tar roads. The North-Western Province, which has the oldest project, the Mutanda/Chavuma Road, has only been allocated K39 billion, which, according to the new laws that this corrupt MMD Government is coming up with, is not enough. In the past, when President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, who was against corruption, was still alive, we tarred one kilometre with K1billion. This corrupt MMD Government has now allowed an increase of about K6 billion to tar one kilometre of a road. 

Mr Mulongoti: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Member: A point of jealousy.

The Deputy Chairperson: No, a point of order is raised.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member, who is debating in a very malicious manner, in order to insinuate that there is corruption when, in fact, the award of contracts is based on the offers that are made by contractors on the open market? Is this absentee MP in order to speak so carelessly?

The Deputy Chairperson: Taking advantage of the point of order, we sometimes let such utterances go by with the hope that the debater will stop using such words. I am amazed at how we proceed this way. If you want my right side or the Government to assist, I do not know how you will be able to persuade them to assist you if you begin calling them corrupt. Put your question so that they can be able to assist you next time.

You may continue, please.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for your ruling.

Mr Speaker, going through this Budget, I find nothing for the North-Western Province. Other parts of the country are being given farming blocks, others are being declared disease-free areas where cattle will be taken while nothing has been given to the North- Western Province. Yet, this is a province that has plenty of land, water and grass.

Mr Speaker, going through this Budget,  I find that whereas in other areas people are being given a lot of projects to construct boreholes, the little money that was supposed to come from donors to assist with borehole construction in Chavuma and Kabompo and other areas in the province, has been grabbed from us and put in the national pool. I find that very disgusting.

Sir, going through this Budget, whereas as a lot of schools are being constructed throughout the country, there are no high schools, pre-schools and colleges being constructed in the North-Western Province. Even the university that was promised to the people of the North Western Province has been taken away from us.

Sir, going through this Budget, whereas as hospitals are being constructed in other parts of the county, no new hospitals are being constructed in North-Western Province. There is virtually nothing for North-Western Province. Even the little hope that was given to the people of the North-Western Province in terms of oil mining and exploration is still not being followed through. To date, I am still called a sheikh without money.

 Laughter

Mr Kakoma: The people from the Geological Survey Department that were sent to explore the area further have been withdrawn from the North-Western Province and taken to other areas in Zambia.

Sir, we find this very disappointing because we do not know what the people of the North-Western Province have done to this Government to deserve this kind of treatment.

Sir, some of these hon. Ministers might think that by denying the people development, they might influence them to support the MMD Government, but to the contrary, what will only amaze them more is that by denying development to Zambezi West Constituency, they are still not fixing Charles Kakoma. You are actually fixing yourselves because the people will vote in protest against the lack of development in the area under the MMD rule. I will continue to bounce back into this House. Therefore, if you do not provide development to my constituency, do not think that is the best way you can remove Charles Kakoma. It  is not. It will only annoy the people more and they will become angrier with you and continue to vote against you.

Sir, let me touch on other issues …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kakoma: You want me to continue talking about the North-Western Province?

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, in the North Western Province, there is …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … no electricity. In Zambezi District, people are only given two to three hours of electricity in a day. There is no diesel. Sometimes even when there is diesel, the old machines are broken down. In Zambezi, people buy mealie meal at K100,000 per bag and yet, this Government is boasting about having good food production in Zambia. Where is the food when people are buying mealie meal at K100,000 per bag? Who is going to buy it?

Sir, this Government keeps on boasting about having taken development to the North-Western Province because of the mines. I can tell you that those mines have brought more hunger to the people of the North-Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kakoma: One of the things that the people were supposed to benefit from the mines is employment. I can tell you that the people of Solwezi are annoyed with what is happening at Kansanshi Mine and they will teach this Government a lesson in the next election for Solwezi Central. The local people have no jobs in the mines. People are still suffering. A lot of boys and girls who have finished their education have no jobs. You will keep on hearing about high number of cases of vices such as prostitution because people have no jobs, but still have to survive. I would like to advise the MMD Government and their campaign teams that are going to Solwezi to be careful because they will find a lot of very beautiful young girls from the North-Western Province.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Sir, we must take care of ourselves because we might come back as dead bodies.

Sir, this Government has said that it is taking serious steps to diversify the economy. I find it a mockery just by looking  at the amount allocated to tourism marketing. It has increased from K5 billion to K6 billion. You cannot diversify into tourism by allocating K6 billion for marketing. That is a drop in the ocean. It is less than 1 per cent of the total budget for tourism. What we need is to allocate more than 6 per cent of the Budget to tourism if they have to diversify. Otherwise, it will be a song that we will continue to sing for the rest of our lives on this earth.

Sir, finally, this Government is stuck because it has not got enough money due to its own fault. This Government was supposed to be one of the richest governments in Africa by getting money from the mining sector. Its economy relies 80 per cent on mining, but the contribution of the mining sector to the Government revenue is only 2 per cent of the total revenue.

Sir, in 2011, when this Government is out of power, and when the UPND/PF Pact takes over power, it is going to reintroduce windfall tax to generate money from the mining sector to support all the development projects. You will see this country prospering. That is the only solution that will develop this country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Pande): Mr Speaker, thank you for affording me the opportunity to join other hon. Members who have debated and contributed positively to the progressive and well-meaning Budget Speech which was delivered in this august House by the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Situmbeko Musokotwane. Hon Minister, well done!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who has just finished speaking is my brother and a sheikh without money.

Laughter

Mr Pande: He has no money because he does not know how to work with the Government in power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: When he is asked to look for a hoe and have a plot, he says he cannot dig because he is in the Opposition.

Sir, in his debate, he mentioned that in 2011, this Government will be out of power, but I would like to inform him that it is wishful thinking because the North-Western Province …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You people surprise me. The Cabinet Minister is speaking and it is the Deputy Ministers behind him who are distracting him. I cannot believe it. Can you, please, allow him to debate without interference.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, when my brother started speaking, he referred to the Budget as a total failure. I do not know how a student could call the Budget a failure which has been presented so well by his lecturer. It makes me wonder.

Sir, I would like to further commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his well researched and presented Budget Speech with the theme, “Enhancing Growth Through Competitiveness and Diversification.” The Budget is realistic, practical and well articulated.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: When we study such documents, our interpretation is usually different because of our level of understanding and our level of appreciating what has been put in place. However, as it is, this is a well designed Budget. For many years in this country, we have not had a budget like this one.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the retained theme from last year’s speech is a wake-up call to all Zambians. A country such as Zambia cannot develop only with minerals, but rather through diversification to all viable sectors of the economy such as agriculture, tourism and manufacturing which can ably contribute to the maximisation of the food basket and foreign exchange.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, Zambia’s economy has continued to heavily depend on copper, but the diversification to the other sectors of the economy such as agriculture and tourism has enormous potential of contributing positively to the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The working Government of MMD has embarked on a targeted and focused development of priority tourism areas, with particular emphasis on the Kasaba Bay and the Livingstone area.

Once the integrated development plans are completed, we will embark on the promotion of the sites which will attract potential investors and eventually, create employment for our youths in the country. This is a commendable job that is being undertaken by this Government as it will help boost our young growing economy which will attract tourists from the emerging markets of Russia and Asia, particularly China, Japan, India and Malaysia.

Sir, my ministry, with its foreign policy which is premised on the need to promote and protect the country’s interest in international relations and safeguard its sovereignty, territorial integrity and socio-economic development, shall continue to focus its attention on maintaining foreign relations …

Interjections

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Pande: … that advance the country’s socio-economic welfare in the global economy.

Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that without peace in a country, there cannot be any meaningful development. Therefore, the unity that we enjoy should be encouraged because any conflict or illegal demonstration has spill-over effects on peace and security.

Sir, I am fully aware that in a democratic like country, the freedom of expression, association and movement is the order of the day. However, we must be extremely careful in the manner that we apply or implement these democratic tenets.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: We must be careful, Mr Speaker, in the sense that there is no absolute freedom anywhere in the world; not even in our own homes. For a country like Zambia, certain actions being done in the name of freedom can retard its economic gains and eventually create chaos. No development will thrive in a chaotic situation.

Sir, the working Government of MMD is looking at agriculture and tourism as the ultimate solution for the country’s economic woes. The agriculture sector, as outlined by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, is expected to grow by 5.2 per cent this year as compared to 1.9 per cent in 2008. This is the best testimony that the working Government is not leaving any stone unturned.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: To fulfil this, all the environmental factors that support agriculture have been appropriately taken care of …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Pande: … and these include high cost of inputs, limited access to credit and extension services among others.

Mr Speaker, my main concern as Minister of Foreign Affairs is how we can increase our Foreign Direct Investments (FDIs).

As we implement economic diplomacy, we must be aware that investors choose countries to invest in based on the political stability of the country, peace and investment policies. For now, Zambia is doing very well in most of those areas, but we are almost losing it.

Sir, in promoting good governance, the President of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, through his efforts, devotion and commitment to the crusade against corruption recently launched the Anti-Corruption Policy which is the first ever in the history of our country. This demonstrates the passion and commitment that this Government has in the fight against corruption.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: In this regard, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has increased the budget allocation to the Office of the Auditor-General and the Anti-Corruption Commission.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: It is important, Mr Speaker, that, as Government lends tenacious efforts to building the economy with citizens’ participation being a major driving force, where all our leaders, particularly from opposition political parties, churches and other stakeholders that share a stake in the governance of the country, exercise care in what they do and say.

It is sad that Zambia which has, in the immediate past, been renowned for political tolerance and peace worldwide is now being relegated in rating because of politics of reckless popularism which do not even address development issues that are key to uplifting the living standards of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Member: Chilingalinga!

Mr Pande: Those are politics which do not add any value to the development of this country. Mr Speaker, I pose a question to each and every hon. Member in the House today and to all the Zambians: How do we feel that Zambia has to be lumped together by some international organisations with countries in some parts of the world as one of the most vulnerable to political instability from this year to 2010? For your own information, Zambia has been lumped together with Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Hon. Members: Because of chilingalinga!

Mr Pande: In all fairness, Zambia cannot be likened to countries that have known very little or no peace at all. Yet this perception is gaining ground because of some careless politicians who have taken to politics of insults and issuing inflammatory statements to cause despondency in the country.

Mr Speaker, if Zambia were not an oasis of peace, let alone enjoying political stability, there is no way we would have continued to attract direct foreign investment and see an increase in tourist arrivals. There is no way we would have continued to be counted upon as a politically stable country whose track record in good governance warrants that we contribute to regional and global peace-keeping efforts under the auspices of the United Nations and continental bodies such as the African Union.

Mr Speaker, it is sad that we still have, in this day and age, politicians who are orchestrating politics of hatred, tribalism, regionalism and division. There is no leader aspiring to the high Office of President, who would fathom, let alone desire to be insulted, ridiculed and treated in an undignified manner. This is because, as we all know, the Office of President carries reverence, etiquette, dignity and honour superseding all offices in the land.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, important that this office, regardless of who is in office at any given time, is insulated from politics of insults so that, as Zambians, we can build a legacy where, serving, past and future Presidents will experience the comfort of governing without political hostilities aimed at eroding the integrity of their office that come in different forms.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, we say, “Bufumu be bunemeka kubene bena bafumu” meaning, if you Zambians cannot put a premium on your presidency, do not expect outsiders to do so.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: The Opposition, in particular, should realise that their place on the Zambian political scene is not for unnecessary antagonism that is synonymous with Cha cha cha politics, which politics were best suited at that time and for a good purpose.

This is what I call analogue politics which is misplaced and serve no purpose in contemporary politics. The world has evolved and so has politics. Mr Speaker, this is the order of digital politics, politics that serve as a vehicle for development and addressing issues that border on the livelihood of the people.

Mr Speaker, what is heart-rending is that some young politicians, who are supposed to carve out a successful political career for themselves and command a following based on real issues, are going astray by espousing politics of insults, lies and enjoy fracas and unproductive demonstrations or protests. Well-meaning Zambians are watching. Therefore, do not cry foul in 2011.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, those who are wise will listen to what I am saying.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: My advice is that with that kind of behaviour, you will never ascend to that position of Presidency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: God, through the people of Zambia, will not allow it. You have to change. These politicians are not only misguided, but are also in clear breach of our African and Zambian cultural norms that demand or expect younger people to respect elders.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: I challenge our young politicians, some of them aspiring for higher office, to discard the behaviour of insolence and vulgar language if they are to show the nation that they have what it takes to contribute to the governance of this nation. My ministry has done and continues to do its best to promote Zambia as a politically stable and peaceful country. These efforts are being frustrated by some of the Zambians on whose behalf my ministry works as it caters for all Zambians regardless of their political affiliations.

Mr Speaker, our fight should be to create wealth, fight poverty, improve health and education services and so on and so forth. These are the issues the Opposition should be addressing vigorously and not dwell on valueless protests or demonstrations.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, it is important that every politician focuses on nurturing our young democracy by promoting political stability, unity and peace. These are very important variables for development and no leader who aspires for Presidency can ever do without them. By practising analogue politics, some politicians think that they are tarnishing the image of the President and MMD. The truth is that you are tarnishing your own image as a Zambian and the country as a whole.

Mr Speaker, we should all differentiate issues of politics and those that relate to Mother Zambia. Avoid anything that sends wrong signals to the outside world. Otherwise, the good effort that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has put in place will not bear any tangible results. Therefore, it should not only be a matter of being obsessed with the quest for State House, but rather a conviction for each one of us, whether in the Ruling Party or Opposition, to work towards nation building and protecting the image of Zambia and making the country a preferred investment destination.

What has been happening amounts to shooting ourselves in the foot. You are tarnishing the image of this country and not that of President Banda and, indeed, not that of the MMD Government. You are discouraging investors who are sensitive to issues of peace and stability. There has been a wrong notion of generalising some nationals like the Chinese. Let me educate those who keep talking of the Chinese. If there is one Chinese who is doing wrong, do not generalise. On earth, today, there is no single country that has no relationship or that denies to have relationships with China.

Mr Speaker, in America today, China holds a total of reserves amounting to US$2.4 trillion which is stored in dollars of the United States or treasury bills and 35 per cent is saved in other foreign currencies. Recently, it is a Chinese company which bought General Motors, the producers of Hummer vehicles. Now, if you stand and ask what the Chinese are doing, you should not generalise because every country in the world today wants China.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the virtue of love should be a unifying factor in our politics because with this, we will and should put our premium on the Presidency and insulate any sitting President from undue attacks and accord them the reverence they deserve.

Mr Speaker, politics of mudslinging and fighting each other will not add value to the development of this country. As a country, we are in a hurry to develop and overcome the various challenges that we face. This can only be done if we all stand on common ground and put non-value-adding politics aside. Zambia deserves better and it is the duty of every Zambian, including our Opposition leaders, Ruling Party, the Church, civil society and many others to do what is right.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House. I would like to begin my debate by thanking all the gallant men and women in Kasama and all the members of the pact …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mrs Mwamba: … for putting up a spirited fight and winning against all olds. I would like to welcome Hon. Mwamba II to this House. He is very welcome. I was the first Mwamba in the House.

Interruptions

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, at this moment, I would like to express my deep disappointment at the manner of debates by some of our senior or elderly statesmen in this House. They catch your eye under the pretext that they want to debate ...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

She is debating. So, please, give her the opportunity to debate.

Mrs Mwamba: They catch …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Madam! While it is good for others to listen when you are debating, it goes without saying that when some are debating you should also give them your ear.

Can you continue, please?

Mrs Mwamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was saying they stand up and catch your eye, pretending that they want to speak on the Motion on the Floor, but when they open their mouths, they deride people who are not in the House by passing derogatory remarks against Mr Sata and Mr Hakainde. They make scathing attacks on the Opposition. They spend twenty minutes talking like that. When some of these people walked into this House as elderly people with wide experience in politicks, I, as a newcomer, thought I would learn one or two things from them, but alas, …

Mr Kambwili: Munkombwe.

Mrs Mwamba: … it seems we need to teach them a lot of things ourselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, some of these people want to equate this House to a boxing ring. They want to settle their personal scores in this House. That behaviour eludes the sanctity of this House. This House must be respected.

Mr Speaker, regarding the Budget, we have heard, here, from members of the Executive or the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that the national cake or national resource envelope is not enough to be distributed equitably. Now, with or without windfall tax, the Government can find the money whenever they need it. A clear example is what we saw in the just-ended by-election in Kasama. I can attest to you that money was spent in that by-election. Money flooded Kasama and loans were given in the middle of the night in homes and without application forms. Truckloads upon truckloads of mealie-meal and other items were distributed, …

Hon. Opposition Members: GBM!

Mrs Mwamba: … shamelessly, by members of the Executive and some of them were caught red handed. They were lucky that we won because if we did not win, we were going to petition because of cogent and tangible evidence against them.

Interruptions

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I would like to comment on public order and safety. Again, in Kasama, during the period of the campaigns, we saw a heavy presence of police and most of these people came from outside Kasama as if there was a state of emergency. The people of Kasama are very peaceful. There was no need for this Government to abuse those men by asking them to linger around in Kasama, when the people of Kasama are very peaceful and were campaigning peacefully. However, let me quickly say that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I always advise that if you have to make reference to issues like that, do so in passing and then move on to other issues because you are making that the main issue of your debate. Therefore, do it in passing and then move on.

Mrs Mwamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am talking about public order and safety, and the police who were brought into Kasama for that purpose. I am just trying to say that the Kasama residents are very peaceful. That was unnecessary and uncalled for. The police are being abused. They were brought to intimidate the people of Kasama.

Mr Speaker, the Public Order Act, during that period, was applied selectively. I can assure you that most of the police cells were filled with PF/UPND cadres only. They were arrested and intimidated so that our campaign could be weakened. Needless to say that a Government that abuses its laws and its own institutions of governance loses its credibility.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Alaisa Daka. Lolela.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, having said that, I would like to comment on the agricultural industry. The budgetary allocation that has been made this year is negligible. Of this allocation, 40 per cent goes into the Farmer Input Support Programme.

Mr Kambwili: Iwe, Daka, nalakuma, walafita nga ine.

Interruptions

Mrs Mwamba: Now, the 40 per cent …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Can I ask Hon Kambwili and Hon. Daka to consult outside the House and once you are through with your consultations, you can come back. Can you, please, leave the House?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili and Mr Daka left the House.

The Deputy Chairperson: Consult, but do not fight.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can the hon. Member continue, please?

Mrs Mwamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that protection. I was saying of the budgetary allocation for the agricultural industry, 40 per cent of it is gobbled by the Fertiliser Support Programme, now known as the Farmer Input Support Programme. The 40 per cent given to this programme exaggerates the money that is given to this industry. If you analyse and look at the figure and compare the two figures for last year and next year, the increment is negligible. Agriculture is not just about maize production …

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious procedural point of order. Is the House in order to continue debating when there is no quorum? I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Following that point of order, we have made a count and it is true that we do not have a quorum. I will suspend business for five minutes so that the people who are outside can come back.

Let me take this opportunity to advise that we come here to do business for which the Zambians sent us here. Obviously, if we fail to form a quorum out of a total number of 158 people, then there is something substantially wrong. Really, this is not good and let me warn that if this trend continues in future, I will be forced to indicate that the sitting for that day has not taken place.

Business was suspended from 1216 hours until 1221 hours.

The Deputy Chairperson: We now have a quorum, but before we resume, let us count the hon. Members who are here. We want to take a record of people who are not in the House. We did this the other time and so can we do it now by having the hon. Members re-entering their cards.

Hon. Opposition Members entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Mwamba, you may continue as we have a quorum now.

Mrs Mwamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was saying that the budget allocation for the agricultural industry is negligible. You will note that 40 per cent of that is gobbled up by the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). Therefore, the 40 per cent inflates the allocation to the industry. Agriculture is not just about maize production…

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Lukashya, who is debating well, in order not to mention and put on record that the Government was in place whilst there was no quorum?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: The Opposition, the Patriotic Front (PF) and United Party for National Development (UPND), was not in the House. I need your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The Chair will not make a ruling on the point of order that has been raised by the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services. However, we have registered all those present and absent and we know what course of action will be taken against those who are absent after considering the matter.

The hon. Member for Lukashya may continue.

Mrs Mwamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker. There are so many challenges in the agriculture industry and there is a need for adequate funding to be made to meet the various challenges the industry is facing. I heard the hon. Minister talk about what is expected. The rate of growth should be about 5.5 per cent. With this kind of investment that we have put in agriculture in next year’s Budget, I do not think we can achieve even 2 per cent growth. There is also a need to address the infrastructure in the agriculture industry to have meaningful growth and for diversification of the economy to be achieved.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to comment on the activities of the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) in the tourism industry. ZAWA must come out categorically and put up proper and legal boundaries between the Game Management Areas (GMAs) and where people are free to settle and do their businesses without interference from the Government. The people living in these areas are Zambians and my heart goes out to them.

Last year or early this year, we had a situation in the Southern Province regarding the people of Sichifulo. It took the Pact to stage a demonstration to State House for the Government to intervene. In my constituency, I have a place called Chimalilo. The people living in this area moved from Luwingu and Chilubi to settle there and they have been there for twenty years. The population is about 1,000 to 2,000 and they do not receive any services such as education and health facilities from the Government because the Government claims that they have settled in a GMA. However, the area that they talk about is Isangano which is found in Luwingu and Chilubi districts. It does not go beyond the Lubansenshi River into Kasama. We have spoken about this before. What comes to mind is that ZAWA is not doing enough to draw the boundaries clearly so that people can be protected. You cannot have a group of 1,000 to 2,000 people without any social amenities. There are a lot of children growing up in this area, but the Government is hiding under the fact that these people have settled in a GMA. The two Members, Hon. Chisala for Chilubi and Hon. Chota for Lubansenshi and I have ascertained that the area is not in the GMA. Therefore, I implore the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to direct ZAWA to look into this issue very seriously.

I would like to comment on the dwellings of our traditional rulers. This morning, one of our colleagues asked a question relating to the building of a house for one of our chiefs. I think that this affects most of the traditional rulers. Most of them live in deplorable dwellings.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Those houses are a hazard to the lives of the chiefs and their families. Can the Government seriously show respect to our traditional rulers by according them befitting dwelling houses so that these people can be viewed by their subjects as people of authority in their society?

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to talk about the “packet”, the Pact.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, let me conclude by urging the hon. Members on your right not to preoccupy themselves with the issues of the Pact. Their mandate is to deliver development to this country. Why are they worrying about the Pact? We have not invited them to join the Pact. What is their problem?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: The Pact is here to stay. When they go to sleep tonight and open their eyes tomorrow morning, the Pact will be there. The Pact will be there on 31 December, 2009, on 1st January 2010 until 2011. Can they, therefore, concentrate all their efforts on delivering what they promised the people?

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sikota, SC. (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I would like to first of all extend my congratulations to the newly elected Member of Parliament for Kasama Hon. G. B. Mwamba and would also like to extend my congratulations to the UPND for scoring a first in Zambia’s history in that in the recent Kasiya Ward, they won it by what may be called a lucky packet kind of arrangement …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: … in that the votes between the contestants were equal and it was by lot that they won. It is no wonder they seem to be so proud about this particular victory. They keep on talking about it because it was a lucky packet win.

Laughter

Mr Sikota, SC.:  Mr Speaker, this was different from the victory that the United Liberal Party (ULP) had in Lukulu. That was a very clear and emphatic win. I would like to congratulate our people in Lukulu on delivering Lukulu to the ULP.

Mr Speaker, I am very happy today to be able to stand here and address this House, particularly because this is the eve of the 45th anniversary of our independence.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: It is something which is very important and I hope all hon. Members of the House and all Zambians will reflect upon this very important occasion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: I hope that from the cool waters of the shores of Lake Tanganyika in Mpulungu, to the thundering smoke emanating from the boiling point in Livingstone; from the rice paddy fields in Chama to the Flood Plains with rice in Liuwa; from the Villager in Chimbamilonga in the North …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: … and the villager in Chalimabonga in the South, will all of us take stock of the fact that this is an important day for us.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: Mr Speaker, many Zambians fought for our independence and even in this Chamber, there are some people who were cardinal in that fight. We have the likes of Hon. Daniel Munkombwe, the hon. Deputy Minister for Southern Province. We also have another veteran in our Chief Whip, Hon. Vernon Johnson Mwaanga, who, together with their colleagues, sacrificed for our independence. They fought alongside others.

Hon Members: Some were thieves!

Mr Sikota, SC.: I hear that some were thieves. I do not know, but I will refer to that in a little while.

Interruptions

Mr Sikota, SC.: Amongst those who fought for our independence were, of course, the current Republican President, His Excellency, Rupiah Bwezani Banda. Nobody can doubt that he was cardinal in the fight for independence.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: I will also comment on party presidents vis-à-vis our independence. The UPND President, Hakainde Hichilema, and I, clearly, were too young to have fought for the independence of our country. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: However, we represented the promise of the future and that is our part in the independence in that we were the promise, at that time, of the future. The future is now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: Mr Speaker, I am not quite sure about where or what the PF President, Mr Micheal Sata, was doing …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: … between 1962 and 1964.

Laughter

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, on a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nsanda: Mr Speaker, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us listen to the point of order!

Mr Nsanda: … is this man who has been denied the MMD Vice-Presidency in order to start discussing people who are not in this House?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Up to the point where names were mentioned, I did not hear anything negative said against anyone. In that context, let us give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged. I was saying …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sikota, SC.: … that I was not quite sure about where and what the PF President, Mr Sata, was doing between 1962 and 1964 and what his role in the independence fight exactly was.

Interruptions

Mr Sikota, SC.: However, I know what a president of another political party was doing. This is none other than President B. Y. Mwila. I know that he was a youth in Ndola doing his ‘O’ Levels at the time and was clearly fighting for the independence of our country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: He, like many other brave and gallant Zambians, was actually being harassed by some of our own people who were collaborators in the Colonial Police Force …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: …and were putting down gallant Zambians.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Magande: It is part of the Budget.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! At the time Hon. Kambwili was raising a point of order, I had already asked for order. The reason was that I wanted to appeal to the hon. Member for Livingstone not to dwell too long on the political history of this country, but come quickly to the 2010 Budget Speech.

Can he continue, please.

Mr Magande: He can go on just a little bit.

Hon. Members: It is part of the debate!

Hon. Members: Ulimwaume!

Laughter

Mr Sikota, SC.: What was the fight for independence for? It was for political independence, no doubt, but it was also for economic independence.  There is absolutely no doubt that it was also for national integration.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: These are the things that we fought for when we fought for independence.

Mr Speaker, on 24th October, 1964, we got our political independence relatively easily. Of late, however, we have seen that the donors are attempting to dictate to us what we should be doing. Let us not lose our independence. They are trying to roll back our political independence because we have not consolidated our economic independence.

Mr Speaker, this is where I link my debate to the Budget. It was necessary that I give that background.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: Mr Speaker, economic independence is a little more difficult to attain than political independence.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

We are not giving him the opportunity to debate. Can we consult quietly.

You may continue, please.

Mr Sikota, SC.: I am much obliged, Sir. Economic independence is a little more difficult to attain than political independence. We have had many budgets, most of which have had a very large foreign aid component. Forty-five years after independence, we have not attained our economic independence yet.

Mr Speaker, what is, however, gratifying is that the donors have trimmed funding to our health budget. This may sound like a contradiction, but by their deciding to trim our budget, it has forced us, as a people, to realise that we can only have true economic independence if we rely on our own resources for this critical area.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: I, therefore, would like to salute the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for increasing the component in the health budget which is to be funded from our resources. Although, on the overall, the health budget has gone down, what we are putting into it, as Zambians, has actually gone up.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: This is a step towards economic independence.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: There are, however, other things that we need to do if we are to attain economic independence. I would like this Government to seriously reconsider the issue of the windfall taxes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: That is the way forward.

Mr Sikota, SC.: We talk about the windfall taxes because we see it as lost opportunity by this Government to raise money that would lead to greater economic independence …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: … for our country.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Sikota, SC.: The windfall taxes should not only be in terms of the mines, but the Government should also consider imposing it in areas where we see sectors getting what I may call obscene profits. One of these areas is the banking sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: This Government should seriously consider imposing a windfall tax regime on the banking sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: Mr Speaker, another area where we could increase our resource envelope and take a further step towards economic independence, is in the agriculture sector. Animal disease control is cardinal towards getting us into a situation where beef can become the copper that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning talked about. There is a need to ensure that we go flat out in terms of funding programmes that will deal with animal disease control.

Sir, we also need to deal with fish and animal restocking.

 Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC.: I am glad to see that there is a provision for fingerlings and this is very important for certain parts of our economy such as in Luapula, Western and Northern provinces. This will impact positively on a lot of individuals and will help to uplift our economy and take yet a further step towards our economic independence.

Sir, in the area of agriculture, there is also a need for this Government to ensure that we look at the storage of our grain. It is good that we have got more money allocated for building of silos in some areas. However, the management of those silos and our grain leaves much to be desired. I am informed that yearly, we lose about 30 per cent of our grain due to the manner in which we store it. I would implore this Government to consider assisting the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) in getting them to partner with experts in the storage and handling of grain so that losses in terms of storage are reduced from the 30 per cent to, maybe, about 5 per cent.

In areas such as South Africa, there is only 2 per cent loss. Why do we not see our partners in various regional groupings and ask for assistance from them and find out how they have attained this situation where they only lose 2 per cent of their grain as opposed to the 30 per cent that we lose. If you translate that into money and even if you subtract 5 per cent as a management fee, we would still make a huge profit. We would find ourselves in a situation where we would not, year in and year out, give money to FRA as we are doing at the moment. This, again, would be another important step towards economic independence.

 Tourism is another area where we can make steps towards economic independence. I am glad that there is a tourism levy that has been suggested. However, I hope that the Central Government will not keep all the money that is obtained from the tourism levy, but share it with the local authorities. It is only fair that this is done so that they can also become economically empowered and independent.
 

As we have taken away the crop and grain levies, it is important that the local authorities are encouraged and helped to build capacity in order for them to take advantage of the recently passed legislation which allows for Private-Public-Partnership initiatives (PPP). The Central Government should not put a lot of bureaucratic hurdles towards the achievement of such partnerships because there will be a need for local authorities to quickly fill in the gap which is there as a result of having taken away the crop levies.

Sir, as time is running out, I would like to turn to the last bit of what I said regarding the fight for independence.

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: It was also for national integration. Hence, forty-five years ago, our wise leaders, the colleagues of Hon. Mwaanga, decided that even our national motto would be “One Zambia, One Nation.”

Mr Chisala: Question!

Mr Chota: Question!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Anybody who has an issue with that, clearly, does not appreciate what the fight for independence was.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: He was not there!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: At this stage, forty-five years after our independence, we should not talk in any tribal way.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: That should be something which is alien to us.

Hon. Government Member: Tell them!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Political intolerance should not be there.

Hon. Government Member: No!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Violence and threats …

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: … to people with different ideas are rolling back our political independence.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Not only is it rolling back our political independence, but it also impacts on the good governance ratings of our country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Our good governance record is something which is on the shoulders of all of us. The Government must also ensure there is good governance, but we, in the Opposition, must also show that there is good governance. If we do not show good governance in our parties, then the ratings of Zambia will be very low because they would say, “Even if there is a change of Government, there will still be bad governance.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: Mr Speaker, the issue of corruption is …

Hon. Members: Yes!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: I would like to salute the Government for increasing the moneys to the Anti-Corruption Commission …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota, SC., SC.: … and also taking the initiative of the Economic Intelligence Unit. This will go a long way in making sure that we have no more corruption taking place.

Mr Kambwili: Mwakulacita appeal landeniko!

Mr Sikota, SC.: With those words, Mr Speaker, I would like to urge all Zambians to celebrate in peace tomorrow on the 45th Independence Day.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to join in supporting the Motion before this House.

Sir, let me begin by welcoming the new Member of Parliament for Kasama Central.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Clearly, as we have been told, this was a battle and in any battle, one wins and the other one loses. We, on the losing side appreciate that we tried our best, but obviously could not manage to win.

Mr R. C. Banda: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: … for breaking a record of presenting two budgets in one year.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, as a former Minister of Finance and National Planning for over five years, I do understand how difficult such a task can be. But, of course, I am grateful to this House for having made an amendment to the Constitution so that the National Budget can be presented and concluded before the beginning of the financial year.

Mr Speaker, I remember the young Angela Cifire saying that quite a good number of us were mesmerised by the manner the hon. Minister presented his speech as he was not reading and he did not have to flip pages like the odious and tiresome job I had to do for a long time. I want to say congratulations to the hon. Minister on moving in the right direction with technology.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I would like to fully support some of the words from the hon. Member for Livingstone who has just finished speaking that we should bear it in mind that, as we adjourn today, tomorrow is our country’s Independence Day. Clearly, what is Independence? When we reflect, it is not Zambia as a country that had to be independent, but the individuals who were there at the time who decided that it was time we ruled ourselves. In getting that independence, they must have had a vision of what Zambia should look like some forty-five years later. I recall as a young man at the Independence Stadium waiving those white flags, celebrating Independence on that day. I was proud that I looked to a time when, in future, as I grew up, I would be a responsible citizen and, perhaps, be given the opportunity to lead my country as one of the leaders.

Mr Speaker, it has become very clear that as we have moved on this path, some of us have lost the meaning of Independence and, indeed the vision for the future of this country. We have lost it because we have tended to spend time on issues that do not add value to our country. Indeed, as Hon. Sakwiba Sikota said, many of us in this room were not there. As I said, I was a young man, doing all those exercises and many were not there. Some of those who were there, like we have been told, are not reminding us of why they had to sleep in the cold and why some of them, like Hon. Munkombwe, had to get scars on their heads in order for us the younger generation to do the things that we want.

Mr Speaker, it has become fashionable to continue to talk about Independence, and democracy without realising that democracy requires tolerance of one another. Independence is you, but,, within bounds of your independence comes the independence of the other person. You cannot be independent and do everything you want without realising that others also have to enjoy their independence.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, since this is Budget time, I also would like to pay my condolences to the family of the late John Mwanakatwe, SC., one of the visionaries, a very educated man at Independence who decided to do quite a lot for this country. He was in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_________

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 27th October, 2009.