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Debates- Tuesday, 14th July, 2009
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 14th July, 2009
The House met at 1430 hours
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
___________
ANNOUNCEMENTS
DEATH OF MR NASIM-UL-GANI A. HAMIR, DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHITAMBO
Madam Deputy Speaker: I wish to acquaint the House with a fact which is already sadly known that the House lost one of its Members, Hon. Nasim-ul Gani Hamir, Member of Parliament for Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency and Deputy Minister of Lands.
Hon. Hamir died on Friday, 8th May, 2009 and was buried on Saturday, 9th May, 2009 at the Old Leopards Hill Cemetery in Lusaka. The House was represented at the burial by six hon. Members of Parliament and one member of staff, namely;
1. Mr P.P Chanda, MP, Leader of Delegation;
2. Mr P. Sichamba, MP;
3. Mr Silavwe, MP;
4. Mr S. Chisanga, MP;
5. Mr P. Kapeya, MP;
6. Mr D. Mwila, MP and;
7. Mr J. Chimfwembe, Parliamentary Security Officer.
The hon. Mr Speaker has already conveyed the sympathies and condolences of this House to the bereaved family.
May I, now, request all hon. Members to stand in their places and observe a minute of silence in the honour of the memory of the late hon. Member of Parliament?
Members of Parliament stood in silence for one minute.
ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE
Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice who is attending to other national duties, Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa, MP, and Minister of Defence, will act as Leader of Government Business in the House from Tuesday, 14th July to Friday, 17th July, 2009.
I thank you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
EXTENSION OF COVERAGE OF PARLIAMENT RADIO
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
As hon. Members are aware, one of the objectives of the Parliamentary Reforms is to achieve coverage of Parliament Radio throughout the country. The National Assembly is currently undertaking phase II of extending the coverage of Parliament Radio.
Hon. Members will recall that the programme of extending Parliament Radio’s broadcasting signal started last year. Phase II of the programme is intended to extend Parliament Radio signals to the five provincial centres which are outside the line of rail, namely Chipata, Kasama, Mansa, Mongu and Solwezi. Installation of transmitters in these areas has already started and is progressing well.
In this respect, I wish to inform the House that Parliament Radio is now transmitting programmes in Mansa on 91.2 FM, Solwezi on 93.2 FM and Kasama on 91.4 FM. This is good progress.
Once again, I would like to thank the Royal Danish Embassy for their valuable contribution and support to Parliament Radio. I shall, from time to time, update the House on the progress we shall make with the remaining two provincial centres, namely Mongu and Chipata, and the way forward thereafter.
I further wish to inform the House that Parliament Radio has now extended its broadcasting hours. The House will recall that previously, Parliament Radio limited itself to broadcasting only the proceedings of the House. This was done when the House was sitting. The time has now come for the radio to move towards full operation. The new Parliament Radio broadcasting hours are as follows:
(1) During sittings of the House
Mondays: From 0800 hour to 1600 hours;
Tuesdays to Fridays: From 0800 hours up to the adjournment of the House.
(2) When the House is on Recess
From 0800 hours to 1700 hours.
The House may wish to note that Parliament Radio does not broadcast on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays.
Hon. Members, the extended broadcasting period means that Parliament Radio has to introduce more programmes. Some of the programmes that have already been introduced are:
(i) Know your hon. Member of Parliament;
(ii) The Committee Corner;
(iii) The Legislative Corner;
(iv) Questions on Parliament; and
(v) Human Rights at work.
These and many more programmes to be introduced will be broadcast on Parliament Radio for the benefit of the public. This is in line with the aims and objectives of our Reform Programmes of taking Parliament closer to the people.
For Parliament Radio to achieve its purpose, hon. Members of this august House should fully participate in its programmes. In this regard, hon. Members should be available for Parliament Radio Programmes voluntarily or whenever requested to do so. Parliament Radio is a child of this House and it is the responsibility of this House to look after its interest and see it grow to its fullest potential.
In the light of what I have said, hon. Members are expected to render costless service to the radio as a token of appreciation of their commitment to this institution. In fact, hon. Members will excel greatly in the performance of their functions when they participate fully in the programmes of the radio.
I, therefore, request all hon. Members to fully participate in the programmes of Parliament Radio without reservation. This is for your benefit as hon. Members of Parliament, and for the people you represent.
I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
____________
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider this week.
However, before I do that, allow me to welcome back all hon. Members to this House for this legislative meeting of the House. It is my sincere hope that hon. Members are ready and anxious to proceed with the Business of the House as scheduled for the duration of this meeting.
Madam Speaker, let me now turn to the Business the House will transact this week.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Dr Mwansa: Today, 14th July, 2009, the Business of the House is as indicated on the Order Paper.
Tomorrow, Wednesday, 15th July, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of the following Government Bills:
1. the Public-Private Partnership Bill, 2009;
2. the Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill, 2009;
3. the Postal Services Bill, 2009;
4. the Information and Communications Technologies Bill, 2009; and
5. the Zambia-Tanzania Pipeline (Amendment) Bill, 2009.
Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any.
On Thursday, 16th July, 2009, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Report on the Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential Appointment of Lieutenant-Colonel Godfrey Robert Kayukwa to serve as Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission.
Madam Speaker, on Friday, 17th July, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider any other business that may be presented or may have been presented earlier in the week.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
____________________{mospagebreak}
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
FUNDED ROAD PROJECTS FOR 2008
210. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Works and Supply how many road projects that were budgeted for in 2008 were funded as at 31st December, 2008 and how many were not.
The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam, the Ministry, through the Road Development Agency, is pleased to report that all the projects that were included in the 2008 Annual Work Plan were funded by 31st December, 2008. However, some of the projects were only partially funded.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Kambwili: Madam, may I know what has happened to the projects that were partially funded. Have they been worked on or provided for in the new budget?
The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Madam Speaker, the reason for partial funding at times is that the contractor is not expected to complete the project within the year and so the funds made available are to enable the contractor carry out the work that they are able to complete. However, sometimes, the funds are not sufficient. We accept that we what is made available should utilise.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Madam, what is the reason for the suspension of a number of road projects in the country this year and part of last year? Is it because the Government has no money to ensure that these projects continue?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam, to our knowledge, we do not have a general suspension of projects. I have said contractors have resources made available to them depending on their capacity and also the resource envelope. Where funds are not adequate to make them continue, of course, it is desirable that an adjustment is made so that the contractor is not left idling on site.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam, I am aware that the Mufulira/Sabina Road is one of the roads that was funded. May I know from the hon. Minister when this road is going to be repaired completely apart from the patching that is done every now and then?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam, I am happy to report that I took a tour of that road to see the extent of the damage. However, sometimes, the repairs that are done are dependant on the moneys available. Instead of a full rehabilitation, we are forced to do patch works just to help keep the road motorable. It is difficult for me to tell precisely when a full rehabilitation will be done though it is under consideration. I went as far as Mokambo and so I am aware of what the hon. Member is talking about.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam, looking at the amounts of money which we are spending on gravel roads, is the hon. Minister considering a way of cost saving on behalf of the Government whereby we can have better ways of repairing these roads to make them durable unlike what is happening at the moment where we work on these roads and within three months, the roads go back to the same state they were in before works were done on them?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam, a permanent solution to this is tarring the roads. All the gravel roads get affected whenever there is a heavy down pour. The roads are affected by the weather. We have had heavy rainfall in some areas and less rainfall in others and so it is difficult to precisely tell whether if we work on a certain road this year, it will remain in the same condition. We have to be aware of the fact these are gravel roads and therefore, depending on the weather pattern and usage, will get affected.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Madam, why has the hon. Minister embarked on advertising new projects when we have old projects that were advertised last year such as the Isoka Road that have not been funded?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam, the responsibility of the Roads Development Agency (RDA) is to identify roads, of course, working with the respective authorities in the districts. Once RDA have identified the roads, they will advertise for the purpose of procurement. Procurement means evaluating and carrying out feasibility studies and when resources are made available, a contract is signed with the contractor. For the roads that were advertised, contractors have been advertised for but at the end of the day, we are prudent enough not to sign contracts so that we avoid attracting interest. We do that as soon as the money is made available. However, preliminary work is done before that is implemented.
I thank you, Madam.
Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, the Mufulira/Sabina Road may not have received sufficient funding for full rehabilitation, but for pothole patching. How long, in the hon. Minister’s opinion, should these patches survive seeing that the last ones lasted less than a year? How much money is he prepared to provide for these partial jobs?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, looking at the Mufulira/Sabina Road, the tonnage that goes through that road is quite huge and at the end of the day, even patching that road may not be a permanent solution. However, the resource envelope will determine how much money will go into a particular road. We are conscious of the fact that you want good roads and this is the reason I toured the same road just to determine how far we should begin to consider it. I must emphasise that it is a concerned not only to you, hon. Member but also to us.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, the equipment that the hon. Minister so graciously and humbly accepted from China came in two pairs. In your opinion, is it prudent to separate the pairs, where a grader, bowser and another piece of equipment gets to different districts and in the process no work is done?
I would like the hon. Minister to give us a categorical answer.
Secondly, …
Madam Deputy Speaker: No second question!
Laughter
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I would like to believe that decisions of that kind are made logically by the people who are handling the equipment.
Interruptions
Mr Mulongoti: I also do not believe that what the hon. Member has said is possible because equipment coming in pairs implies its suitability in carrying out a project. Therefore, I doubt whether a grader would be sent without a bowser.
Laughter
Mr Mulongoti: However, I will make an investigation to find out whether there is any iota of truth in what the hon. Member has said.
I thank you, Madam.
Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I am aware that urban roads are supposed to be worked on by local authorities who are unable to do so because of the lack of adequate funds. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the local authority in Lusaka can manage to work on the roads, especially in Mandevu Constituency where this would cost about K72 billion.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is a councillor and …
Interruptions
Mr Mulongoti: … she has not told us how much the council is spending on the roads.
Interruption
Mr Mulongoti: However, on our part, we are attending to roads in Ibex Hill, Chainda and Chalala. We hope that the councillors can also do something for their own roads in Lusaka and not just complain to the central Government. What is their role?
I thank you, Madam.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, evidently, works along the Chipata/Lundazi Road are proceeding at a very slow pace. Is it as a result of an envelope that is leaking or lacks funding? What is the cause of that?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the contractor is being very meticulous in the way he is attending to that project.
Interruptions
Mr Mulongoti: I do not know why the hon. Member must complain when we have such a good contractor who is paying attention to little detail.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, all elected hon. Members of Parliament are councillors.
Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!
Mr Lubinda: Well, I am a councillor in the Lusaka City Council, but I would like to find out why, after the Lusaka City Council, in which I sit, asked for K32.4 billion for tarring 26 kilometres of the roads in my constituency which was made available in 2008, that man …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Lubinda: … the hon. Minister of Works and Supply …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! We do not have that ‘man’ in this House.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You must refer to him by his official title, if you would like to say anything.
Hon. Member, you may continue, please.
Mr Lubinda: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for you guidance. I wonder why the hon. Minister of Works and Supply delayed the release of the K32.4 billion from 2008 until May, 2009, thereby delaying the execution of the project which was approved by this councillor and other people in Lusaka.
Mr Mpombo entered the Chamber to take his seat as a backbencher.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House! Hon. Members, we should not reduce this House to an Insaka or some village gathering where people are welcomed in that manner.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Can the work of the House continue, please.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I have certain difficulties with the hon. Councillor as he calls himself. I think that is the right level for him.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I am saying this because of the way he addressed me. He was not in order because I expect him to exercise …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister.
Mr Kambwili: Eba Minister aba!
Madam Deputy Speaker: It is important that we listen to the questions and answers clearly. Hon. Minister, can you respond to his question.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the funding that is released …
Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Madam
Madam Deputy Speaker: Should we stop discussing this?
Mr Shakafuswa: Yes!
Madam Deputy Speaker: No, hon. Member. The hon. Minister will continue.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the difficulty we have is that we are trying to provide answers, but some hon. Members choose to act in a dishonourable way.
Interruptions
Mr Mulongoti: If that is the attitude, then why ask questions? They must learn to listen because I am providing an answer.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister. That guidance has already been given by the Chair. After that, you have to give your response.
You may continue, please.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, funds are released to appropriate institutions. The responsibility of my ministry and RDA is to find contractors. Funds are sent to the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) which falls under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Therefore, it is unfair to ask me a question pertaining to the work of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.
I thank you, Madam.
ROAD DEVELOPMENT AGENCY EMPLOYEES
211. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Works:
(a) why employees of RDA were paid more money than ordinary civil servants; and
(b) what major achievements the agency had recorded since its inception.
Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the employees under RDA are not civil servants. They are, however, some employees from the Ministry of Works and Supply who have been seconded to the agency. RDA is a corporate body just like the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) or Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO). The conditions of service for the Civil Service do not apply to RDA.
Madam Speaker, the planning, maintenance and contracting …
Laughter
Mr Ndalamei: … for public roads and bridges has been well co-ordinated since RDA was established, as it is responsible for the management of all public roads. This has resulted in a co-ordinated and focused road infrastructure development approach in the country.
Madam Speaker, the procurement of works has become more transparent. All the works that are procured as well as stages of project implementation are published in the local press for the information of all stakeholders.
Finally, the available national funds are properly and efficiently utilised rather than spreading them thinly to several road authorities as was the pracatice…
Laughter
Mr Ndalamei: … in the past. All the funds for maintaining and constructing roads, including those for the supervision of works, are allocated to RDA. The road authorities are expected to inform their respective regional engineers of all the works that are going on in the districts through the senior engineers.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I think that the Hon. Minister has not answered my question. Before the establishment of RDA, employees of the Department of Roads under the Civil Service got very low salaries. Immediately the quasi-government agency was formed, salaries were increased. My question is, should the Civil Service be transformed into a quasi-government agency so that all civil servants can be well paid? Why do you pay employees in quasi-government institutions more money than civil servants?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member must appreciate the reasons for the transformation.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mulongoti: If a body is transformed from a Civil Service body to a quasi or parastatal body, surely, to attract a high-calibre staff, we need to offer them more money. If your attitude is that even when you transform a body, you continue paying its workers the same salaries, you will not achieve anything. To improve service delivery and attract quality staff to a programme to develop this country, salaries must be improved. I, therefore, do not see anything wrong with this because it is general practice world over.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister what measures have been put in place by RDA and his ministry to ensure that contractors who are sourced during road maintenance works do not adjust the value of their contracts before signing them because of the duration between sourcing and the actual signing of the contract. For instance, in Mufulira, a contractor was sourced in 2007 to work on roads in a residential area. However, to-date, the contractor is not on site. What measures is the hon. Minister putting in place to ensure that when funding is available, the contractor does not adjust the value of the contract?
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair finds it difficult to correctly relate that question to what is on the Floor at present.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Madam Speaker, the Hon. Minister of Works and Supply indicated that the transformation of RDA from a Civil Service body was meant to give it a corporate image, which obviously comes with efficiency. He also indicated that currently, the agency properly and efficiently manages funds. From the 2008 Work Plan that RDA produced, it is clear that it has not lived up to people’s expectations. The performance of RDA is way below average. When will this efficient corporate body produce another work plan which will be more optimistic and achievable?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I have difficulty appreciating what the hon. Member means by saying there is no efficiency in RDA. The responsibility of RDA is to ensure that contractors are identified, evaluated and at the end of the day, when funds are available, contracts are signed. We have, in the process, consultants who supervise the contractors and whenever there are problems, we are able to intervene.
However, all this is dependent on whether the design of the work has not been adhered to. Contrary to what the hon. Member said and as far as we are concerned, there is nothing wrong with RDA. Of course, sometimes contractors delay their work. This, however, is not because they have not been assigned to a particular project, but because the resource envelope is not sufficient to keep them working. Contractors only work on projects according to the cash flow. When they exhaust the money available, it is not possible for them to continue with the works.
Madam Speaker, as far as we are concerned, the agency is responding to its mandate effectively.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to state whether RDA has any immediate plans to extend its offices to districts.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, currently, we have offices in the provincial centres. Since we have appointed local authorities as road authorities, I do not think it will be necessary for RDA to go that far.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Madam Speaker, when representatives from the World Bank came about one and a half months ago, they queried the fact that the agency had overspent by K1 trillion. What is the explanation?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I had a meeting with the Vice-President and other representatives of the World Bank and I do not remember them saying we had overspent. Their query was that there could be an indication of over procurement, meaning that more contractors had been assigned responsibilities …
Mr Shakafuswa: Over procurement is overspending!
Mr Mulongoti: … beyond what was in the budget. However, I think that the reconciliation that has been done proves that, in fact, the case is not true.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, during the transformation of the Roads Department into RDA, some workers were absorbed while others were not. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister why some workers who were not absorbed are still living in government camp houses and getting salaries.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, it is difficult to appreciate the hon. Member’s source of information. All employees who were not taken on by RDA were paid off using funds that were made available by the World Bank. I, therefore, doubt that there could be people who are no longer employees of the Government, but still on the payroll.
Furthermore, if they are still living in what the hon. Member called camp houses, I am not aware of this. I am sure the hon. Member is aware of the fact that there is an empowerment programme for civil servants to purchase houses. Some of the houses were not classified as institutional houses and therefore were sold to Government employees living in them.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Madam Speaker, I did not appreciate the response that the Hon. Minister gave when the question on salary scales was asked. I would have appreciated it if he had talked about the statement His Excellency made when he talked about the re-establishment of the Salaries Commission which will be looking at all the salaries paid from the national Treasury.
My question is related to his response in which he says we are paying more for officers employed by quasi-government institutions because they are more qualified, meaning that those that are in the mainstream …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.
Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am coming to my question. The hon. Minister means that those in the mainstream Civil Service are of a low calibre. What is this Government doing to ensure that the people who are employed in the Civil Service are of a high calibre because that is where the delivery of service starts from?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, at times, decisions are made to improve service delivery. It does not imply that the people who are in the Civil Service are not qualified or competent. What I was saying is that when there is transformation in an institution, the intention is to improve the efficiency in the delivery of services.
When RDA was formed, it was expected to prepare its own conditions of service as per quasi Government institution. The approving authority felt that it was necessary to encourage the recruitment of competent and efficient staff and it was possible to pay employees a little more. Truly, there is no point in expecting an engineer who is at the Lusaka City Council to be attracted to join RDA on the same salary. There must be some carrot dangled to attract them.
Ultimately, what the hon. Member for Chongwe is saying is that the establishment of the Salaries Commission is meant to create a balanced work structure to reward people appropriately. It does not imply that its establishment will make quasi-Government and parastatal institutions pay the same salary as the Civil Service. People have a choice to remain in the Civil Service and get the benefits that are in the Civil Service because, sometimes, there is stability, promotion and training compared to quasi-Government institutions where, sometimes, service is not combined with training of staff. Therefore, it is up to an individual to compete in the market by using their qualifications for those jobs that can pay them well.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
ROADBLOCKS BETWEEN CHILILABOMBWE AND CHIRUNDU
212. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) how much was raised by the Government through traffic fines from the roadblocks conducted between Chililabombwe and Chirundu from 2006 to 2008, year by year;
(b) how many arrests were effected during the period at (a) above and;
(c) how many cases at (b) above were successfully prosecuted in the courts of law.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Phiri): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that there was no money raised by the Government through traffic fines at roadblocks, but check points.
Madam Speaker, as regard part (b) of the question, I would like to inform the House that there were no arrests effected.
Madam, coming to part (c) of the question, I would like to inform this august House that there were no prosecutions.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the relevance of these roadblocks because most of the time, traffic officers just inconvenience motorists.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, what needs to be well understood is that there is a difference between a roadblock and traffic check point. Therefore, the question that the hon. Member has asked is confusing in the sense that, essentially, roadblocks look at security issues. Therefore, we have approximately ten roadblocks throughout the country, but have several traffic check points. Check points are essentially for traffic offences committed by motorists.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
KEREN MOTORS AND MAAMBA COLLIERIES LIMITED CONTRACT
213. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) why the Government terminated the contract with Keren Motors at Maamba Collieries Limited;
(b) what the terms of exit agreed between Keren Motors and Maamba Collieries Limited were;
(c) what the initial terms of the contract between the two parties were;
(d) what the future of Maamba Collieries Limited was after termination of the contract; and
(e) whether the Government had any intention to engage another contractor in place of Keren Motors.
The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the Government, through Maamba Collieries Limited, did not terminate the contract with Keren Motors as stated in the question, but with Keren Mining Limited.
Maamba Collieries Limited management gave written notice to Keren Mining Limited to terminate the contract because of a breach of the following agreed targets:
(i) To employ on site the Open Pit Mine Production Manager, Mine Plant Engineer, Maintenance and Safety Manager, Health and Environmental Manager;
(ii) mobilise equipment as required to the designated mining area;
(iii) maintain haul roads which were required to enable them to perform;
(iv) mobilise diesel, explosives and recruit the necessary labour force; and
(v) commencement of coal production as agreed.
Madam Speaker, as for part (b) of the question, I would like to inform the House that the decision to terminate the contract with Keren Mining Limited was approved by the Board at its meeting held on 1st December, 2008. The terms of exit agreed between Keren Mining Limited and Maamba Collieries Limited were:
(i) Termination by Maamba Collieries Limited giving ninety days notice; and
(ii) termination by Mutual Agreement.
Madam Speaker, the meeting, held on 1st December, 2008, between Maamba Collieries Limited Management and Keren Mining Limited, resolved to terminate the contract by Mutual Agreement, thereby facilitating prompt disengagement.
Madam Speaker, as regards part (c) of the question, the initial terms of contract between the two parties were that:
(i) Keren Mining Limited was required to mobilise within four weeks upon Maamba Collieries Limited advancing US $500,000;
(ii) Keren Mining Limited were required to dewater, load and haul coal from a designated mining area on behalf of Maamba Collieries Limited;
(iii) Keren Mining Limited were required to deliver a specified quality (ash content of coal should be 25 per cent and below) and quantities of coal as was agreed upon to designated areas; and
(iv) Keren Mining Limited were required to deliver the coal to a designated place upon which they would be paid US $31 per tonne delivered.
Madam Speaker, as for part (d) of the question, I would like to inform this august House that, currently, the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) is negotiating with a preferred strategic equity partner, Nava Bharat Ventures of Singapore to develop Maamba Coal Mine and a thermal power plant.
Madam, on the last part of the question, I wish to say that in the interim, Maamba Collieries Limited instituted a selective tender of four contractors, namely Barloworld Equipment (Z) Limited, Pro Earthworks (Z) Limited, Harberton Equipment (Z) Limited and Scirocco Enterprises Limited. Maamba Collieries Limited engaged a mining contractor, Scirocco Enterprises Limited on 19th December, 2008 as a replacement contract and the company has commenced mining operations. Scirocco has produced a total 80,000 tonnes of coal in the first quarter of 2009.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, after signing the contract between Keren Mining Limited and Maamba Collieries Limited, Keren Mining Limited was paid US $500,000. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the US $500,000 has been paid back after the termination of the contract.
Mr M. B. Mwale: I thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank the hon. Member for his follow-up question. Since there is no litigation, this means the matter has been amicably resolved.
I thank you, Madam.
POLICY ON FOREIGN-OWNED AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION
214. Dr Machungwa (Luapula) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:
(a) what the Government’s policy and procedure for registering a foreign owned aircraft operated by a Zambian company was; and
(b) whether such an aircraft could operate without Zambian registration indefinitely as had been the case with the defunct Zambian Airways.
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, the policy of the Government on air transport of 2002 has not addressed procedures for registering foreign-owned aircraft operated in Zambia by a Zambian company. Registration of aircraft in Zambia is carried out by the Director of Civil Aviation pursuant to the provisions of Cap. 444 Regulation 12 (1) of the Laws of Zambia.
Madam, the procedure for aircraft registration is captured in the Air Navigation Regulations. Regulation 12 (2) says that, “Application for registration of an aircraft shall be made to the Director and the applicant shall furnish the Director with such particulars relating to the aircraft and the ownership thereof as he may require in connection with the application and with such evidence as he may require in support thereof”.
The Director has prescribed to the operators the requirements to meet for the registration of an aircraft and the evidence to produce. This is notified in the Aeronautical Information Circular (AIC).
Madam Speaker, an aircraft can operate without Zambian registration for three months or six months, depending on the weight.
Zambian Airways did not indefinitely operate aircraft that were not registered in Zambia.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that Zambian Airways did not operate indefinitely. Could he tell us the period which they operated before these foreign aircraft were registered?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, according to the Aeronautical Information Circular of 2003, an aircraft with a takeoff mass of 5,700 kilogrammes and below is allowed to operate in Zambia upon registration. However, those with a takeoff mass of 5,700kg and above have a maximum operating period of six months. Presumably, the Zambian Airways aircraft operated within that period.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any Zambians who have intentions to register a new airline since the collapse of Zambian Airways in order to facilitate transportation of business persons and tourists within and outside Zambia?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, it is common knowledge that Zambezi Airlines, a Zambian company, is currently operating. That is evidence enough of Zambian nationals participating in the airline industry.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mrs Phiri (Munali): Madam Speaker, I am certain that the hon. Minister is aware that when an aircraft is registered under Zambian registration, it economically benefits the country, because there are many taxes that are paid to the Zambian Government. For example, when pilots and engineers renew their licences to operate, they pay money to the Zambian Government. I would like to find out when this Government is going to come up with law that will specify the duration a foreign aircraft is going to operate in Zambia under foreign registration and then later be transferred to Zambian registration, because we have many aircraft, like the one operating in the North-Western Province, a Beechcraft 350 Series.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, I earlier indicated that according to the current legal provisions, a foreign registered aircraft with a particular takeoff mass can operate up to a maximum of six months. However, the Chicago Convention makes other provisions, upon agreement, on how long an aircraft can operate, depending on the agreement that has been achieved. That is, aircraft which are over 5,700kg takeoff mass or weight. Therefore, a law is there in terms of duration and how long a foreign registered aircraft can operate.
At the moment, we have those agreements in the law. However, I do not know what exactly the hon. Member wants to know given the facts that I have presented.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}
ZAMBIA PRISONS SERVICE STRENGTH
215. Dr Machungwa asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) what the current strength of the Zambia Prisons Service was;
(b) what the required strength for meeting the Service demands was; and
(c) what measures had been taken to meet the required strength.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the current strength of the Zambia Prisons Service is 1,800 officers broken down as 1,477 males and 325 females.
Madam, the Zambia Prisons Service Act, Cap. 97 of the Laws of Zambia and the United Nations Minimum Standard Rules on the Treatment of Offenders provides that prison officer to prisoner ratio is 1 to 4. Therefore, taking into account the current prison population of 15,003 prisoners as at 11th February, 2009, and the establishment of specialised units, the minimum required staff strength to meet the demands of the service is 6,000 officers.
The Service has, through the Restructuring Report, increased its staff establishment to 6,000 officers.
The Service had submitted a proposed budget to recruit 3,000 officers in 2009, but has only been authorised to recruit 100 officers this year due to financial limitations.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, the required strength, according to the Zambia Prisons Service, is supposed to be 6,000. Currently, the number of officers is less than a third at 1,800 and only 100 will be recruited to bring the total to 1,900. When, at this rate, does the hon. Minister hope that we will be able to meet the required strength to be able to service the prison system efficiently and effectively?
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, as a service and ministry, we are committed to ensuring that we reach the desired staff levels. We had budgeted for 3,000 officers, but, again, I would like to stress that due to financial limitations, the Treasury authority given is only for 100 officers. All things being equal, we would have loved to employ 3,000 officers.
I thank you.
Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, the prisons in the country are generally highly congested because the infrastructure is pathetic, having been built in the 1940’s and 1950’s. What is the Government doing to ensure that the inmate’s dignity is restored and human rights are respected?
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for his concern. It is true that our prisons in the country are congested. As a Government, we are not sitting back because, this year, in the Yellow Book, there is money allocated for prison expansion and we hope that when our prisons are expanded, we are going to decongest them. Apart from that, we put in other measures where at the end of last year, we introduced the parole system.
Madam Speaker, this system is intended to help us decongest the prisons. A parole system, for the benefit of hon. Members, is where prisoners do not serve a full term in prison. We assess them and release them before the full term. That, we believe, is also going to help us decongest the prisons.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, having gone to prison recently …
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: … I would like to find out why this Government has allowed a situation where a cell holding about 300 hundred inmates has only one toilet. Is it difficult for this Government to add more toilets so that we give the prisoners dignity?
I really suffered.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That will not be taken as an official complaint.
Laughter
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, experience is the best teacher and, like I said, we have put money in the budget for the expansion of the prisons. The improvement of sanitation and water system is top of the agenda.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Ministry of Home Affairs has found it prudent to utilise the available resources to make materials and labour necessary for extension taking into consideration that there is a lot of available labour to make the conditions of the inmates comfortable. Since the Prisons Service is renowned for championing agriculture in this country, I would like to suggest that the moneys that are raised from such self-help ventures are channelled towards helping to make those who are making the money, the inmates, lead decent lives.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister may answer the question since hon. Members are asking questions which are off the main question.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that good question. I agree that we have a lot of skill among our prisoners and I can confirm to the hon. Member for Katuba that we are using prison labour to the best advantage of the prisoners. They produce a lot of food, mould bricks, they are involved in poultry and, in Kabwe alone, prisons control the prices of eggs. It can be seen that the prisoners are involved in several economic activities which, at the end of the day, do not only benefit the prisoners, but also the Treasury.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
LUANSHYA/MASANGANO ROAD CONTRACTOR
216. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Works and supply:
(a) whether the Government had taken any punitive measures against the contractor who worked on the Luanshya/Masangano Road which had developed potholes in less than one year of being rehabilitated; and
(b) what the way forward for the said road was.
Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the ministry, through RDA, has not taken any punitive measures against the contractor who carried out the rehabilitation of the Kafulafuta/Luanshya Road because what happened to the road was not his fault at all. Due to limited funding provided by the donors to implement the project, the design for the rehabilitation of the road had to be down graded in order to cover the entire length of the road. Some sections of the road that required full rehabilitation of all pavement layers, including the sub-grade, only received maintenance treatment to be within the budget.
Madam Speaker, it has been said that 21 km of the road project be fully rehabilitated at a cost of K67 billion. Due to budgetary constraints, the road will be worked on by the regional engineer in conjunction with the rural road unit under the force account. Equipment for sealing the road will have to be hired. These works were expected to cost K5 billion.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, this road is now a danger to motorists. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there was any kind of provision in the contract for guarantee on how long the road was going to last before potholes could resurface.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the funding available from the donors was inadequate and because of that, the designers had to down grade the work to be carried out on that road. That being the case, what guarantee can you get from a person who initially was supposed to be contracted to do a full upgrade and is later told that the funds available are limited and the design work is down graded? At the end of the day, you cannot punish such a person.
Madam Speaker, these roads take a lot of heavy toll for the simple reason that the cargo that is supposed to go by rail mostly goes by road because people think it is faster and efficient. So unless we also get our rail network on top of things, it will be difficult for us to guarantee how long these roads will last.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, this particular road has been a disgraceful episode in as far as road works are concerned. Would the hon. Minister not be of the opinion that if the funds remitted were not sufficient to carryout the full-scope rehabilitation of the road, then, maybe, part of the road should have been done properly, instead of extending the little resources and, therefore, the road failing long before the specified time and as such wasting more Government resources.
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, sometimes, it is difficult to ignore the deterioration of any part of the road as it occurs. It is important to make the road motorable so that in the process, we begin to look for sufficient funding to carry out full rehabilitation. I do not know whether it will make sense to patch potholes on one part of the road and leave the potholes on the other part of the road. I think what is more logical is to attend to all the potholes that surface on that road in the hope that by the time we get sufficient funding, the potholes will not have reappeared. Therefore, it was logical for us to work on the whole road just to make it motorable in the hope that we would find resources to rehabilitate the whole road.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, on behalf of Hon. Mpombo, I would like to find out …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair is not aware that the hon. Member has a right to speak on behalf of Hon. Mpombo. Can you speak on your behalf?
Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the suffering people of Kafulafuta, I would like to find out the timeframe for rehabilitating the road considering that my able and principled hon. Member of Parliament is resting.
Laughter
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s geography is defective because that road is not in Hon. Mpombo’s constituency. It falls under Hon. Lundwe’s constituency who is here and has assured me that we will do everything possible, together, to get the road worked on.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, Sable is one company that has been awarded the contract to rehabilitate the road that links Chilubi and Luwingu districts, the Nsumbo/Chabalungu Road. However, what we have discovered is that substandard works have been executed. May I know the collective measures that the Government has put in place?
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair is not aware that the Luanshya/Masangano Road is in Chilubi. That is a new question.
Laughter
Mr Mooya: Madam Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister clearly, the blame is on the ministry because the money was meant for a shorter length of the road but they rehabilitated the entire road. Do we expect the people in the ministry who authorised the little money to be used for the entire 45 kilometres instead of a 10 kilometre stretch to be punished?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, we did not say 10 kilometres in our answer, we said 21 kilometres. However, a decision that is made in the interest of the motoring public cannot be punishable because when the potholes appeared, it was evident that unless they were attended to as they surfaced, the road was going to be worse than it was. So the decision to help the public use the road, even for a short period, while making a final decision cannot be punishable.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, last year, the Kafulafuta/Luanshya Road was advertised, but according to the answer given by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply the rural road equipment is going to be used. Does it mean the tender which was advertised and assessed is going to be cancelled?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the answer stated that the tender was for K67 billion and the money is not available. The contractor was selected, but the contract was not signed because the money was not available. We only sign contracts when we are sure that funds are available. That being the case, the logical thing is for us to use whatever resources are available to ensure that we keep the road motorable. It does not imply that we have forgotten about the full rehabilitation. Having realised that it is an essential road, we have to do everything possible to keep it motorable.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
LUANSHYA COPPER MINES PLC
217. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:
(a) how much money was required to operate the Luanshya Copper Mines Plc for, at least, one year;
(b) whether the Government would raise the money required at (a) above to enable the ZCCM Investment-Holdings operate the said mine;
(c) how many employees would be retained after taking over the running of the mine; and
(d) whether Luanshya Copper Mines Plc had finished paying:
(i) statutory obligations to the employees and Luanshya Municipal Council; and
(ii) contractors such as Prosec, Armco, Mpelembe Drilling and the Government after the closure of the mine.
The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, to operate Luanshya Copper Mines Plc (LCM) for one year requires a cash injection of about US$65 million. This amount will be required assuming production of copper concentrates for smelting and cobalt concentrates for treatment at cobalt plants. A breakdown of utilisation of the funds is as follows:
(a) US$20 million for mine development and start up;
(b) US$15 million as working capital; and
(c) US$30 million for financing the projected operating loss.
Madam Speaker, as the House is fully aware, the Government’s preferred option was to find an investor willing to reopen LCM and provide capital for the development of the Mulyashi asset. The Government successfully found an investor who took over the operation of the mine in June this year. Therefore, the Government will not be providing funds from the Budget for the ZCCM-IH to run the mine.
Madam Speaker, regarding the re-engagement of the former employees, it was the desire of the Government that most of the 1,649 employees be re-employed by the new investor. As part of the negotiations for a take over, the new investor is committed to employing 1,700 miners by December, 2009, which is slightly above the number employed under the previous owners. This number is expected to grow to around 3,000 over three years with the coming on board of the Mulyashi operation.
Madam Speaker, as regards part (d) of the question, on 19th January, 2009, the Government signed a Cash Collateral Release Agreement with Luanshya Copper Mines, which, among other things, provided for drawing up of a scheme of arrangements that provided an agreement on how trade creditors who are unsecured and statutory obligations would be settled. This has since been agreed to by both the Government and Enya Holdings, the previous owners. The scheme was also approved by 80 per cent of the creditors and lodged with the courts as per requirements of the law.
The following is the status on the specific issues raised by the hon. Member for Luanshya:
Luanshya Copper Mines owed US$765,809 in Pay-As-You-Earn as at 31st January, 2009. This obligation has not yet been settled. This will be settled after the execution of the scheme of arrangements, but taking into account that statutory obligations have a first call on any revenues raised.
The debt to the Luanshya Municipal Council will be paid in the context of the provisions of the scheme of arrangements.
In response to the second section of part (d), I would like to inform the House that creditors who are unsecured such as Prosec, Armco and Mpelembe Drilling have not yet been paid by the company. They will be paid once the scheme of arrangements has been finalised.
Roan Antelope Mining Corporation of Zambia (RAMCOZ), which is in receivership, is owed US$11.8 million for the sale of Mulyashi Oxide Caps. This issue is also being dealt with in the context of the scheme of arrangements.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, at the conclusion of the sale of Luanshya Copper Mines between Nonferrous Metals Mining Africa (NFCA), the Government and Enya Holdings, the latter indicated that unless the mine was sold for US$65 million, it was not prepared to pay the creditors. May I know who is going to pay the creditors between the three parties involved since the Chinese have refused to pay them?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, it is clear that the hon. Member is well behind, which means that he is not following the events happening in Luanshya.
Laughter
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, this is sad. The truth of the matter is that an agreement has been signed between Enya Holdings, the Government and the new owners. So the issue he is concerned about is history of about three to four months ago.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out the time frame for the scheme of arrangements. When is it going to be finalised for Prosec and Armco to be given the money that is due to them?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the scheme is before the courts and the various parties are discussing. When they have concluded, an announcement will be made.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to tell me the criteria the Government will use to identify the mines which ZCCM-IH will takeover. I say this because Maamba Collieries Limited was taken over 100 per cent by ZCCM-IH, and yet this was not the case with the Luanshya Copper Mines. There are many more mines that will fail and will require taking over.
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, clearly, that is a new question because we are talking about Luanshya Copper Mines. Nevertheless, I would say that, basically, the criteria, as much as possible, is to encourage private money to go into these mines so that we can save public funds for other uses which the private sector cannot venture into. When we are unable to find an investor to run an existing mine, that is when we consider public money being utilised to take over the mine. Having said that, opportunities are always being taken into account so that where ZCCM-IH can be assisted to increase its shareholding, this is done.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, when NFCA took over Luanshya Copper Mines, it made a commitment to give people pensionable jobs. The hon. Minister is aware that more than 1,900 workers have been employed on six months contracts without gratuity. Why is this so?
Madam Deputy Speaker: That question is a little off the track.
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when the Government is going to find a suitable or better way of hedging itself against investors who pack up and leave the Government to pay their financial obligations. The Government should come up with ways of ensuring that investors that have made huge profits when commodity prices were high, do not leave without settling their debt.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member may have to repeat his question.
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I would just like to make it clear that in the case of Luanshya Copper Mines, the workers were paid their full benefits and therefore, there are no liabilities that have been lumped on the Government. Clearly, there are still outstanding liabilities on the issue of trade creditors and this is what is being discussed under the scheme of arrangements.
As for the future, the most important thing is to ensure that the investor that is secured is credible and with the necessary capital to inject into assets, keep jobs and expand the business. This is precisely what the Government has done this time. We have looked very carefully and have concluded that the company that has been given the opportunity to run this mine …
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Dr Musokotwane: … is certainly better than the one that was there before, which some hon. Members of Parliament were trying to fight. They were trying to insist on the same people who had failed to continue operating the mine but the Government has refused to have a repeat of what happened.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, in answering the question, the hon. Minister indicated the amounts that are owed to Pay-As-You-Earn and RAMCOZ. In view of the fact that hon. Ministers have a tendency of blaming councilors and councils for lack of service delivery, could the hon. Minister indicate how much the Luanshya Municipal Council is owed. Furthermore, what interim measures has this Government taken to ensure that Luanshya Municipal Council, which is owed that money, is able to provide the much needed services to the residents of Luanshya?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I do not have the quantitative answer to those questions but let me state that what has been done for Luanshya clearly answers the concern of the hon. Minister-sorry, of the hon. Member.
Interjections
Laughter
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that when the mine closed, clearly, the ability of the council to provide services to the people of Luanshya totally collapsed.
They may have been owed money but the entity that was running that mine had become incapable. On paper, there was money but in reality there was nothing. Therefore, we should be thankful that, at least, the mine has come back to life now and with that, the ability of the council to collect revenues in various forms has improved.
Certainly, we expect the people of Luanshya to have a much better life than two or three months ago.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.
Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister under which conditions the 1,700 miners are going to be employed. Are they going to be pensionable, casual employees or on contract?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the agreement is that the employment conditions should be permanent, but please, be patient. The insistence of wanting all the benefits to be in place the moment we start something is one of the things that put us in trouble.
This is the situation that is arising so let us give them a chance. At the moment, according to my colleague, there are no developed ores that can be mined right away. These have to be developed. This means that it will take some months before copper can be mined from that place.
Given that situation, surely, is it not reasonably true to say, give these people a chance to develop this mine because that way, the jobs that are going to be created will be more sustainable. Please, be patient.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed us that the operating costs for Luanshya in one year was about US$66 million. Given that assessment by the hon. Minister, is there any desire by this Government to facilitate ZCCM-IH to enter into contractual obligations on the international money market for such small amounts so that we can have a set of mines that are wholly owned by Zambians rather than looking for foreigners who will only come and exploit our people for amounts as small as US$66 million and, indeed, US$100 million for Mugoto where Australians of a lower calibre …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Your question, hon. Member?
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: … than the hon. Minister can access international monies of US$100 million? Does this Government not consider having the monies of our country controlled by Zambians by engaging ZCCM-IH to get money in the same manner that the Australians and Chinese get money from the international market? We want this country to be owned by Zambians.
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, it is the wish of this Government to see as many mines as possible in Zambia owned by indigenous people such as the one who spoke just now. The way to do that is precisely what is indicated. People like hon. Major Chizhyuka and his neighbours on the left and right are very qualified eminent people who are capable of doing what these people are doing. So let them go to the international money markets, get the money and open the mines.
Admittedly, the Government, through ZCCM-IH, will proceed along those lines, but as I said earlier, the Government’s money must be reserved for the roads, hospitals and clinics that you always complain about.
Madam Speaker, the ball is in the court of Hon. Mr Speaker and all of us.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
ZAMBIA TELECOMMUNICATIONS LIMITED
218. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:
(a) when the Government would find an equity partner for Zambia Telecommunications Limited (Zamtel);
(b) how much money was required to recapitalise Zamtel to sustain its operations;
(c) how many employees Zamtel had as at December, 2008; and
(d) how many employees resigned in 2008.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the Government has resolved to partially privatise the financially troubled Zamtel in order to save the company from collapse. Even though Zamtel is dealing in a profitable sector, the Government has realised that it has been operating at a loss for many years. It is in this respect that the Government will be looking for equity partners to revamp the operations of Zamtel. The new equity partner will need to overhaul Zamtel’s business fundamentals, structures and work culture for the company to compete with private service providers.
As regards part (b) of the question, the total amount of funds required to recapitalise Zamtel is about K1,228,837,015, 000 broken down as follows:
Activity Amount (K bn)
Global Service Mobile III 431,855.00
Optic Fibre Project 290,780.00
Rural Connectivity Project 159,549.00
Metro Project 9,282.00
Organisation Rightsizing 321,415.15
EASSY Project 14,664.00
Other Requirements 1,292.00
Total 1,228,837.15
The total number of employees Zamtel had as at 30th December, 2008 was 2,623.
Te total number of employees who resigned from Zamtel and those who went on early retirement in 2008 was seventeen and forty-seven respectively.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the company has been making losses and is still making losses. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to inform this House how much the total indebtedness of Zamtel is as at today?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure what the hon. Member wants to know beyond what he has asked because the financial entitlement of Zamtel has already been outlined to him. If he wants more information with regard to its other debt, those figures can also be made available later because they need to be sorted out. In other words, it is a new question.
Thank you, Madam.
Mr Simuusa: The hon. Minister has informed the House that Zamtel is continuously making losses, and yet it is operating in a very profitable market. What is the main reason for Zamtel making losses in a very profitable market, and yet they are other players like the foreign companies which are making profit?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, the reason, in simple terms, is that when the company was constituted in 1994, it was not prepared to operate in a business like manner. Clearly, that is why it is not competing effectively in a lucrative business environment. Additionally, there are other factors like, for example, the over employment over the years. This is why we are talking of finding an equity partner who will run the company in a business like manner so that it is viable under the current competitive environment.
Thank you, Madam.
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam, why is it that Zesco, Zamtel and other companies want to embark on laying of the optic fibre networks when we can all use one network in the country? Do you not think that this is a duplication of work when the cost is all coming from the taxpayers of this country?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, we should be grateful that Zambia is being ushered into the 21st Century technological environment which, of course, will make us access internet services and other telecommunication provisions in the most efficient and effective manner. Therefore, this project which Zamtel and Zesco have embarked upon will definitely make a very big difference in our country. We should all give credit to our companies that have embarked on this very important project of laying optic fibre networks which will create a digital projection …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was simply saying that the sooner Zambia is ushered into this world of connectivity through the optic fibre network, the better for the country. The work that is being done by Zamtel and Zesco should, in this regard, be supported.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out if RP Capital has submitted its report. If it has not submitted its report, where are we getting the figure of K1 trillion if the work of RP Capital has not been completed? If not, why did we engage RP Capital when we knew that we needed K1 trillion only to recapitalise Zamtel?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, there are three or so questions which have been asked and I am sure the tradition of the House is to ask one question.
Hon. PF Members: Ah! Answer.
Professor Lungwangwa: The first question will be answered and the answer is that RP Capital has not submitted its report.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, in view of the fact that RP Capital which was engaged at a huge cost of US$2 million has not yet submitted its report to the Government, how did the Government come up with a figure of K1.3 trillion as the money that is required to recapitalise Zamtel? What was the reason for asking for an evaluation when the Government already knew the amount of money required to revitalise the operations of Zamtel?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, clearly, the evaluation process goes beyond just figures. There are other areas to be looked at which, of course, relate to the viability of the business enterprise.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}
COPPER EXPORTS BY CHAMBISHI NFCA
219. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) how many tonnes of copper ore had been exported by Chambishi NFCA since the company started its operations;
(b) when the Government would stop the export of unrefined copper ore; and
(c) how much revenue the Government had collected from the company at (a) above by December, 2008.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that there was no copper ore exported by Chambeshi NFCA since the company started its operations.
With regard to part (b) of the question, the House may wish to know that the export of concentrates attracts 15 per cent tax. This is only waived when there is no capacity in the smelters. However, blister copper is exported, as there is not enough refining capacity.
In answer to part (c) of the question, I would like to inform the House that NFCA re-commissioned an underground mine which had been under care and maintenance for thirteen years and have been able to meet their corporate and windfall tax obligations by December, 2008 as follows:
Tax Amount (K bn)
(a) Mineral Royalty 22,619,621,164
(b) Company Tax 8,843,587,726
(c) Windfall Tax 8,882,040,908
Total 40,345,249,798
I thank you, Madam.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, the price of copper is now above US$5,000 per tonne. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any plans of reviving windfall tax.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, one point that should be made very clear in this House is that we are running a Government and not a Kantemba or stall.
Interruptions
Mr M. B. Mwale: Therefore, we have to put in place attractive policies to ensure that investors come into this country and not to chase them away.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chongo (Mwense): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that the metals under discussion are attracting a 15 per cent tax. May I know if the ministry has devised a new system to detect precious metals in these unrefined metals so that we maximise the benefits from these metals before they are exported.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is concerned that we may be losing revenue as a nation. However, I would like to assure him that we know the copper ores which may have some precious metals and those that may not. I am sure that he is referring to gold, silver and selenium. I can confirm that this Government has a system in place to deal with that.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, now that we have adequate facilities to process these ores, could the hon. Minister confirm that there is no copper ore that is leaving this country at the moment.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s constituency, which is on the Copperbelt, produces concentrates. I am surprised that he has raised that point in this House when he is fully aware that Lumwana Mine has just come on board. There is also Kansanshi Mine which is producing concentrates. Therefore, by implication, we do not have the capacity at the moment.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I do not think that listening to the people when they demand to benefit more from the rise in metal prices is running the Government like a Kantemba. What the people are saying is that if the price of a commodity rises, naturally, above its normal one not because of the efficiency or magic of the investor, then the benefits accrued should be much higher than before.
Madam Speaker, is it running a Government like a Kantemba if the nation says let us get something from our mineral resources so that we do not just end up with holes in the ground? I would like the hon. Minister to clarify that.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member can raise such a matter when he knows fully well that you need to have steady systems in place to run a Government so as to ensure that you attract investors and not chase them away. It is only when you run a place like a nightclub when you can be increasing prices at will.
I thank you, Madam.
Laughter
Mr Shakafuswa: That is a foolish answer!
Laughter
Mr D. Mwila: Bekabeka!
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether bringing statutes to this House in one year and changing them within twenty-four months is having steady systems in place?
Mr Lubinda: Eight months!
Mr Kambwili: Eight months!
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, we are running a Government and not Namakau House
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister should respond and not bring in those Namakaus that the House …
Mr Shakafuswa: Those are foolish answers!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: … is not aware of.
Please, hon. Minister, can you respond.
Laughter
Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, we have to be responsible when running a Government because we have to look at the common good of our people. What benefits can accrue to the country if we can have a statute that can make people lose jobs? At the moment, the challenge we have is to create jobs for our people and whatever investments we have, we must ensure that they continue operating. Therefore, no law is cast in concrete. Any law can be reviewed as need arises.
UNIFORM PRICING OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS
220. Dr Machungwa asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) how far the Government had gone in introducing uniform pricing for petroleum products in the country in line with numerous Government assurances given on the Floor of the House over the last several years; and
(b) when the uniform pricing for the products at (a) above would be effected
The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that:
(a) plans to introduce national uniform petroleum prices have reached an advanced stage. This ministry is finalising the details of these plans which include a mechanism to cover the cost of transportation of fuel to areas outside the line of rail so as to ensure that the price at which fuel is sold in rural areas is the same as that in urban areas.
The other aspect involves the need to have adequate storage capacity in provincial centres.
Regarding storage capacity, the ministry has advertised tenders for this work. Hon. Members will notice that under Head 13/2, Programme 23, Activity 06, there is an allocation of K100 million to assist the ministry facilitate the rehabilitation of GRZ depots in the country.
With the above efforts, it is planned that the preparations for this programme be completed by the third quarter of 2009;
(b) it is planned that the implementation of national uniform pump prices be introduced countrywide during the fourth quarter of 2009. The remaining period in 2009 will be dedicated to finalising plans for the implementing of this programme.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the assurance. However, can he further assure this House that the assurances he gave are going to be kept and that he will not come back after a month or two to give excuses? Can he assure the House?
Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, my response regarding the fact that the Government has allocated K100 million for this activity is very clear. It is not wrong for the hon. Member to monitor and ensure that these things are taking effect. In fact, we would appreciate it if the hon. Member monitored and observed what we were doing.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I would like some clarification …
Mr Kambwili: From Tom and Jerry.
Dr Scott: … as a humble economist as to what the storage of fuel in provinces has anything to do with the subsidy element that the question was about. The question was about what the Government is doing to equalise the prices. What has storage got to do with this?
Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I was very clear in my response that we are still working on the modalities of how we will come up with the final resolution.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
ZAMBIA POLICE FORCE STRENGTH
221. Dr Machungwa asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) what the current strength of the Zambia Police Force was;
(b) what the required strength of the Police Force for the current Zambian population was; and
(b) what plans the ministry had in meeting the required Police strength at (b).
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the current strength of the Zambia Police Force stands at 14,433. The required strength of the police force for the current population is 27,000 police officers.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs initially intended to recruit 3,000 police officers annually to attain the projected figure of 27,000 and also replace wastage arising from deaths, retirements, resignations and dismissals. However, in accordance with the resources available, we are only recruiting 1,500 officers this year.
Madam Speaker, in order to sustain the manpower expansion programme, as a safety measure, the Government has embarked on construction and purchase of housing units to match the increase in manpower levels.
I thank you, Madam.
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, while I appreciate the fact that the Government is making an effort to increase the strength of the Zambia Police Force, can the hon. Minister assure us that they will continue with this recruitment year by year until we reach that strength?
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for showing concern. Indeed, as a Government and ministry, we are committed to this and funds permitting, as the answer stated, we had initially intended to recruit 3,000. Come next year, if the resources will be enough, we would like to go beyond the 1,500 mark.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to explain to this august House why the recruitment of trainee police officers conducted countrywide two weeks ago was a total disaster. It was scheduled to last for two days but it only lasted for a day and, in some cases, a few hours. Despite the fact that young Zambians turned up in hundreds, only a handful were picked from each centre.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I would like to disagree with the hon. Member who said the recruitment was a total disaster. As a matter of fact, the youths did not turn up in hundreds; they turned up in thousands. I would like to categorically state, here, that the exercise did not last for a few hours or a day. In a number of cases, we stretched it to three to five days.
Madam Speaker, in dealing with such a high number of youths, we made a provision for all the youths that turned up to be serviced. We are talking about capturing only 1,500 recruitments out of about 25,000 youths who turned up. Imagine this because the number that we wanted was quite small.
I would like to also add - and I am glad that the hon. Member alluded to the fact that these interviews were conducted throughout the country - that the Police Service, like any other force, must have a national character. We conducted interviews in all the provincial centres. I would also like to add that as a way of avoiding corruption, we put in place a team from the headquarters which went round all the provincial centres to conduct these interviews because there were concerns that, perhaps, the exercise would be corruptly handled. We did not involve the provincial officers at all.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs alluded to the fact that the interviews were conducted at the provincial centres, which is against the backdrop of the Constitution, which states that interviews should be conducted in all districts of Zambia. Are you in order to abrogate the Constitution?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, we sent out clear notices to all the districts that those that were interested could travel to provincial centres, obviously, because of logistical problems.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify how these young men and women who travelled to Kasama from Chilubi Island and Luwingu were made aware of the interviews, taking into consideration the virtually impassable roads.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, we did send adequate notices. I can actually confirm that there was overwhelming response from all districts. Youths converged from all districts at the provincial centres.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, I would the hon. Minister of Home Affairs be forthright enough to tell this august House what measures he has put in place to accommodate the 1,500 police officers that were recruited and to ensure that their living conditions are tolerable. We would like to know where he has constructed those amenities where the officers will be residing.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, in my written answer, I alluded to the fact that we have a programme of constructing infrastructure. Recently, I was on tour of some provinces. I can give a very good example of Chipata which has a fantastic police housing project which is going on. I can also confirm to you that there are new housing stocks coming up in Livingstone. Therefore, you can see that we are ready for this exercise. We would have loved to do a lot better but, at least, you can see that there is evidence that infrastructure in terms of housing stock is being put in place.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs if there is a deliberate system being applied to make sure that there is representation from all the provinces of this country among the 1,500 recruits.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, we have dealt with that issue and that is why we conducted interviews from all provincial centres. I must add that, in fact, we used a quota system. For instance, we allocated 200 positions for the Copperbelt, 200 for Lusaka and 150 positions for the rest of the provinces.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to be very categorical pertaining to the violation of the Constitution of Zambia which states that the recruitment of police officers shall be conducted in every district. What measures did you put in place to ensure that you did not violate the Constitution of Zambia which is the Supreme Law of this country?
Mr Mangani indicated.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Madam Speaker, my Deputy Minister has adequately answered that question by saying that we did advertise in all the newspapers and on radio to make sure that every Zambian capable of becoming a police officer can attend these interviews. Therefore, there is no violation of the Constitution.
Thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mrs Phiri: Madam Speaker, a few minutes ago, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned, in this House, that this Government is still looking into the accommodation problem. Last month, we heard that not all officers received K200,000 which is given to them as housing allowance. Some officers even got less. With the rampant corruption which is in the Police Force, how is this Government going to make sure that these officers are paid their allowances so that they can get decent accommodation since that is their entitlement, just like other people are entitled to their gratuity?
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, the answer is that we are trying to build a number of houses to address the problem of accommodation. Those who are entitled to housing allowance will get it. Therefore, there is no connection with corruption of any kind. If you have to get your salary through a mechanised system, I do not see how corruption can come into this. There is nothing in that light. Therefore, what is important is to build a number of housing units so that most of our officers are accommodated.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
LOCAL COUNCIL GRANTS
222. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:
(a) how many local councils countrywide did not account for grants from the Government from 2002 to 2008;
(b) how much money at (a) above was not accounted for;
(c) what action had been taken on the affected councils; and
(d) whether the Government had continued to give grants to the affected councils at (a) above.
The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform this House that, on the number of councils that did not account for Government grants from 2002 to 2008, I wish to lay on the Table of this House, reports of the councils’ accounts submitted to this august House from 2002 to 2008 for the information of hon. Members.
Madam Speaker, the said reports which were laid on the Table of this House on the dates they were presented show the names of the councils which did not account for not only the Government grants, but also the other councils’ resources. The reports also contained recommendations of your Committee on Local Government, Housing and Chiefs Affairs which is responsible for policy guidance to councils.
Madam Speaker, on part (b) of that question, it is not possible to give the exact amount of the funds unaccounted for by councils because some of the queries from the audited accounts submitted to this House have been cleared by the Parliamentary Committee responsible, whereas some of the queries were reported to law enforcement agencies for prosecution, resulting in some hon. Member of this House being sent to prison after conviction. Some funds that were not accounted for by some councils are still being pursued by law enforcement agencies and the ministry is not at liberty to comment on the same.
Madam Speaker, on part (c) of the question, officers of the councils or, indeed, councillors and some hon. Members of Parliament who were involved in misuse of Government grants were either reported to law enforcing agencies whereas others were dismissed from councils.
Madam Speaker, as for part (d), the funds released to councils are for community development and for officers or councillors to use. Therefore, denying councils these grants on account of officers failing to account for them is tantamount to denying development to the citizens who are not involved in the malpractices.
Madam Speaker, in short, the Government has continued giving funds to the affected councils when funds are available and supervision on the utilisation of these funds has been intensified to ensure no further misuse of funds is reported.
I thank you, Madam Speaker, and, I will lay all the documents on the Table.
Dr Puma laid the papers on the Table.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, are there any written guidelines on how the grants are supposed to be spent …
Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka: Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you …
Hon. Members: Madam Speaker!
Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker …
Hon. Members: Yes!
Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Laughter
Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo fye!
Major Chizhyuka: … I rise on a serious point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs who has just finished responding to a set of questions on the Floor of the House. Hon. Members want the hon. Minister to justify the constitutional provision in the current Constitution which requires that the recruitment of police officers be from every district.
Hon. Opposition Member: Quote!
Major Chizhyuka: I would like to quote Article 105 of the Constitution which says:
“Parliament shall make laws regulating the Zambian Police Force and in particular providing for:
(a) the organs and structures of the Zambia Police Force; and
(b) the recruitment of persons in the Zambia Police Force from every district of Zambia.”
Is this Government in order to conduct recruitment in provincial centres against the Constitution provision which requires that recruitment should be from every district? Is this Government in order? If they are not in order, is this not room for impeachment, …
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: … especially that the hon. Ministers take oath to defend the Constitution in this Parliament and also at State House when they are appointed by the Republican Head of State? I beg your ruling on this very important constitutional matter.
Hon .Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: That point of order sounds very serious. However, I think that hon. Members should not go into areas that this House may not have competence in. The interpretation of the Act can be seen from different points.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Yes! Order!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Article being referred to by the hon. Member talks about an Act that regulates the recruitment of persons in the Zambia Police Force from every district and how this is done is in the Act.
Hon. Government Members: Yes!
Madam Deputy Speaker: It does not say that there should be recruitment from each district at a recruitment centre. Let us not go that far.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
When questions of this nature arise, we have an organ of the State that is able to interpret such issues. The Constitution was enacted by an Act of Parliament and we are not to interpret or misinterpret it because the understanding can vary. At this moment, the Chair does not see that unconstitutionality.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Madam Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member continue, please.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was asking Hon. Minister, Tetamashimba, whether …
Hon. Government Member Interjected.
Laughter
Mr D. Mwila: … there are any written guidelines on how the grants are supposed to be spent in the districts.
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, when funds are released by the ministry, we usually indicate the purpose of the funds. Part of the funds are for capital projects and the other part is for social services. We clearly state how these funds are expected to be spent by the respective councils.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chongo: Madam Speaker, when is the Ministry of Local Government and Housing going to release funds to Mwense District Council since it was not given any grant this year on account of not preparing the budget in good time?
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that, in fact, it is not only Mwense District Council that has been affected, but also many other councils. We were not able to disburse grants to a number of councils because of funds not being available at the moment.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}
CULVERT REPAIRS IN CHIPILI
223. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Works and Supply:
(a) when the Government would repair the following culverts in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency:
(i) culvert leading to Chikubi Village; and
(ii) at Kamami Village; and
(b) how much the above repair works would cost.
Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through RDA, does not have immediate plans to rehabilitate the culverts on the road leading to Chikubi Village. The Mwense District Council that has been appointed as road authority for feeder roads in the district has not brought it to the attention of RDA in the province for inclusion in the 2009 Annual Work Plan. However, …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order in the House!
It is important that we pay attention if we, really, want to listen to these answers. The loud consultations are too much. Can you, please, listen?
Mr Ndalamei: However, the repair of the culvert at Kamami Village was included in the programme for reinstatement of wash away bridges and culverts. The consolidated list was submitted by RDA to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the Office of the Vice-President for financing.
The estimated cost for repairing of the Kamami culvert was K211,110,048.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, a Bill of Quantities (BOQ) has been submitted for Kamami and not Chikubi. May I find out when the Kamami culvert will be repaired?
Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the agency submitted the BOQ to DMMU. As and when they have the resources, they will be able to get the bridge repaired. At the moment, we are unable to speak on their behalf.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
SURVEY ON DISTRICTS REQUIRING DREDGES
224. Dr Machungwa asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:
(a) whether the Government had carried out a survey to establish the number of districts in the country in need of dredging machines for purposes of canal and waterways clearing; and
(b) if so, when the ministry would procure the machines at (a) above for the concerned districts.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the Government is very concerned with the current poor condition of canals and waterways in areas where the movement of people and goods depends entirely on water transport. Most of these canals have not been cleared for a long time due to budgetary constraints that have inhibited the ministry from procuring dredging equipment for the purpose of clearing and maintenance of canals.
The Government has, however, identified a number of districts in provinces in need of dredging machines for the purposes of canal and waterways clearing. Dredging machines are required in the following districts:
Province District
Central Kabwe
Chibombo
Serenje
Copperbelt Ndola
Lusaka Kafue
Luangwa
Northern Chilubi
Mpika
North Western Zambezi
Chavuma
Western Mongu
Kalabo
Lukulu
Senanga
Shangombo
Luapula Samfya
Nchelenge
Southern Namwala
Itezhi-tezhi
Madam Speaker, my ministry has allocated some funds in this year’s Budget for procurement of one dredging machine. The plan of the Government is to procure the dredging machines as funds become available.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, in view of the fact that the hon. Minister has named over ten districts requiring dredging machines and stated that funds have been reserved to purchase one dredging machine, does he really consider this adequate to be able to address this problem considering that it is not easy to transport a dredger from one province to another or from one district to another?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the answer has been provided, namely that funding, at the moment, is not adequate and machines will be bought as resources become available.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, specifically talking about dredgers, two and a half years ago, the then Vice-President, who is now His Excellency the President, on the Floor of this House, in answer to a question I raised during Vice-President’s Question Time, promised that the Government would procure a dredger specifically for the Western Province and have it stationed there. In view of this promise, would the hon. Minister now indicate to this House when that dredger will be delivered to the Western Province?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the promise that was made on the Floor of the House is still actively being pursued. As a matter of fact, last month, efforts to procure the dredger were made following the K3 billion which is in this year’s Budget. So the promise which was made is actively being pursued and we are confident that the dredger might be procured this year.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, especially that Luapula Province has a harbour which has been silted and canals which are blocked and most of the people have, for a long time, awaited the arrival of a dredger to de-silt the harbour to allow for docking of private vessels. Is the hon. Minister saying that he is going to consider sending that dredger first to Luapula Province and then to other provinces, thereafter?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, in my answer to Hon. Milupi’s question, I indicated that the promise which was made on the Floor of the House is what is currently being pursued by the ministry.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, there are two dredging machines which are currently broken down in Samfya District. One is at Chief Nsamba’s area and the other is at the Samfya Harbour. Are there any serious plans by the Government to rehabilitate the two dredging machines?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, we shall look into that.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
___________
BILLS
FIRST READING
THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2009
The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tetamashimba): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Local Government (Amendment) Bill, 2009. The object of the Bill is to amend the Local Government Act so as to:-
(a) vest the power to employ the staff of councils in the Local Government Service Commission; and
(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 28th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2009
The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa) (on behalf of the Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia recommending favourable consideration of the Bill. I now lay a recommendation on the Table of the House.
Dr Mwansa laid the paper on the Table.
Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Service Commissions (Amendment) Bill, 2009. The object of this Bill is to amend the Service Commission Act so as to:-
(a) establish the Local Government Service; and
(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 28th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submission or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (Amendment) BILL, 2009
Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Legal Practitioners (Amendment) Bill, 2009.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 28th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
ZAMBIA LAW DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION (Amendment) Bill, 2009
Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Zambia Law Development Commission (Amendment) Bill, 2009.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 28th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
ZAMBIA INSTITUTE OF ADVANCED LEGAL EDUCATION (Amendment) BILL, 2009
Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (Amendment) Bill, 2009.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 28th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
_________
The House adjourned at 1729 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 15th July, 2009.