Debate- Wednesday, 2nd December, 2009

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 2nd December, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

MEMBERS APPOINTED TO SERVE ON SESSIONAL COMMITTEES

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, following the appointments of Mr R. S. Mwapela, MP, and Dr S. Musonda, MP, as hon. Deputy Ministers, and in accordance with the provisions of the Standing Orders, the following hon. Members have been appointed to serve on the following committees:

1. Committee on Government Assurances:

Mr B. Sikazwe, MP to replace Mr R.S. Mwapela, MP.

2. Committee on Agriculture and Lands:

Mr G. Mpombo, MP to replace Mr R. S. Mwapela, MP.

3. Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare:

Mr W. Lumba, MP to replace Dr S. Musonda, MP.

4. Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply:

Mr R. C. Banda, MP to replace Dr S. Musonda, MP.

Thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PAYMENT OF TERMINAL BENEFITS TO FORMER ZAMBIA COUNCIL FOR THE HANDICAPPED EMPLOYEES

219. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) when the Government would pay terminal benefits to former employees who worked under the Zambia Council for the Handicapped (ZCH);

(b) how many employees were affected; and

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, in July, 2009, the Government released a sum of K2,673,300,000 towards liquidating part of the debt. A total of 433 former employees were paid their terminal benefits which accrued from the time of employment to 1996 when the Act was repealed. The Government is committed to paying all the former employees. My ministry has also received a report from the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) on the disbursement of the K2.6 billion and we shall soon request the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to release the balance of K3 billion so that the agency can complete the disbursement process.

Regarding part (b), a total of 720 employees are affected and out of these, 433 former employees have been paid leaving a balance of 287 to be paid from the second disbursement as soon as funds are provided by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

With regard to part (c), the amount of money that was owed to the ex-employees was K5,704,568,807 in total and out of this, K2.6 billion has been paid out leaving a balance of K3,031,276,867.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, where will this money come from since there is no allocation in next year’s Budget?

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, the money will come from the supplementary budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the reason why ZAPD has failed to perform is because the Government has not taken it upon itself to ensure that they pay these terminal benefits? Why has it taken so long because the council ceased to operate in 1996?

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, we are committed as Government to see to it that all the money that we owe the former ZCH employees is paid in phases. Before we paid the K2.6 billion between 2003 and 2005, we had earlier paid a sum of K5 billion in the first phase. In the second phase, an amount of K2.6 billion was paid. This shows clearly that we are committed as a Government.

With regard to why it has taken long, when we received the claim from ZAPD, of course, we had to go through the list because we anticipated that there could be some ghost workers. A head count exercise was conducted and after verification, this is how we managed to pay the balance of K2.6 billion.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that they are going to pay through the supplementary budget. Why did the ministry see it fit not to initially budget for the money, instead of thinking of including it in a supplementary budget? Is this not bad management?

(A mobile phone rang in the Chamber)

Mr Speaker: May the owner of that mobile phone surrender it right away. These mobile phones must be left outside at the Chamber Reception.

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, I disagree with the hon. Member for Roan when he says that it is bad management.

Earlier on, I stated how we made payments in the first and second phase and I would like to mention that we will make the final payment when we receive money after requesting for a supplementary budget. This payment was not included in our budget because the paying of ZCH ex-employees has been an ongoing exercise. As a ministry, we request for money from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and it also depends on the availability of funds.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION WORKS AT MATUMBO CLINIC IN SHIWANG’ANDU CONSTITUENCY

220. Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu) asked the Minister of Health when the stalled construction of Matumbo Clinic in Shiwang’andu Parliamentary Constituency would resume.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Musonda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Matumbo Clinic is one of those projects that were awarded to Tomorrow Investments. The stalled construction works of Matumbo Clinic was due to termination of the contract with Tomorrow Investments. These works have now been re-advertised and as soon as the tendering processes are completed, the works will resume.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Major Chibamba: Mr Speaker, I think that is alright if the tendering process has started.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

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MOTION

SECOND REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVENRMENT ASSURANCES

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Second Report of the Committee on Government Assurances for the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 30th November, 2009.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, beg to second.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, thank you once more.

Your Committee were guided in their operations by their terms of reference which are enshrined in standing Order 155 of the National Assembly. I am alive to the fact that hon. Members have already read their report and, therefore, I will be brief as I will only comment on a few of the pertinent assurances your Committee deliberated upon during the year.

Sir, the second report of your Committee contains outstanding assurances only. What this means is that these are assurances which have previously been discussed by past committees on Government Assurances year in and year out. These assurances have not been adequately addressed, implemented or have been partially addressed or implemented and have not been re-forwarded to relevant Government ministries and departments for further action.

Mr Speaker, may I start by commenting on the assurance which was made in this august House on 11th February, 2005, by the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs on the use of live ammunition in crowd control and I quote:

“Mr Speaker, we are very concerned about the use of live ammunition and all efforts will be made to ensure that we have non-lethal mechanisms of dealing with crowd control. Therefore, we are looking into this issue”.

Sir, this is the four years down the line since the assurance was made. It is disheartening to observe that the Government is still struggling to introduce non-lethal mechanisms of dealing with crowd control. Since 2005, the Permanent Secretary in the ministry has been reporting to your subsequent committees on Government Assurances that the Zambia Police Service is as committed as ever to the non-use of live ammunition in crowd control. Your Committee heard that live ammunition is only used when the lives of the police officers are in danger. This, is a very frightening statement as is will continue to justify the use of live ammunition on unarmed crowds which might be demonstrating for a just cause.

In other countries, no matter how provocative the situation is, police officers have effective and no-lethal tools of crowd control such as rubber bullets, water cannons, tear gas, short and long buttons and shields. Why can our police force not use the same tools? The Government needs to be committed to addressing this problem by adequately funding the Zambia Police Service to procure non-lethal riot kit to effectively control demonstrating crowds. The Government should not just paying ‘lip service’ to this matter as innocent lives will continue to be lost through the careless conduct of overzealous police officers, with the lame excuse of saying their lives were in danger.

Mr Speaker, let me also comment on one of the pertinent assurances by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. It deals with the Bursaries Committee vis-à-vis student loans. On 14rh February, 2006, the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning assured the House as follows, and I quote:

“Mr Speaker, the Bursaries Committee has taken steps towards strengthening its operations to ensure that students’ financial requirements are adequately met. The committee has entered into a memorandum of understanding on behalf of the Government and the Finance Bank to allow the bank to administer the funds under the loan recoveries of funds given to students at the two universities”.

Sir, the issue of introducing student loans at both the University of Zambia and Copperbelt University is long overdue. These loans, once introduced will be recoverable from the beneficiary students after they graduate from the universities and begin their work careers. Thus, if implemented, the scheme will assist those students who are not on bursary.

Your Committee wishes to advise the Government not to restrict the loan scheme to students at the University of Zambia and Copperbelt University alone, but to spread it across to other public and private universities such as Mulungushi University, Zambia Open University and Cavendish University of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the Government should go a mile further, by extending the bursary loan scheme to college students. By so doing, the bursary loan scheme will receive favourable support, not only from the Zambia citizens, but also and more particularly from co-operating partners who supplement Government efforts.

However, it is worrying to note that the Government does not provide accommodation allowance to students who are on the bursary scheme and have not been given university accommodation. This needs to be normalised as we shall continue to wonder what happens to the money which the Bursaries Committee remits to the universities meant for accommodation for the students who are not accommodated, but are on the bursary scheme

Mr Speaker, may I now discuss your Committee’s finding and recommendations as regards the committee tours.

Sir, your Committee visited the mines in Kitwe, Chingola and Solwezi. Your Committee’s tours were a follow-up on two assurances by the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. The first one deals with geological mapping and safety in the mines. On the 9th March, 2005, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development assured this august House as follows and I quote:

“Sir, we also want to continue with geological mapping, including investigations on mineral resources and hydrocarbons in certain parts of the country. Further, when we have sufficient personnel, we shall be able to go round the country to look at the aspects of safety for our people. We are doing everything as a Government to address this situation so that we can minimise the number of mine accidents.

Mr Speaker, the second assurance is about the involvement of local contractors in the mining operations. On 26th January, 2005, the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development assured the House as follows and I quote:

“Mr Speaker, although the economical environment in our country is liberalised, allowing private mines to select contractors to undertake contractual works, the Government encourages these companies to use local contractors where necessary and expertise capabilities which are locally available.”

Mr Speaker, in following up the above assurance, your Committee toured four prominent mines, namely, Mopani Copper Mines Plc in Kitwe, Konkola Copper Mines PLC in Chingola, Kansanshi Mining Plc and Lumwana Mining Company Limited in Solwezi.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the safety in the mines, your Committee are satisfied that adequate safety measures have been put in place in all the mines your Committee visited. Further, your Committee expressed great satisfaction that mines safety inspectors from the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development often visit the mines to monitor the levels of safety in the mines. Your Committee commend the Government for a job well done on the adherence to safety measures in the mines and for the tremendous work the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is doing to ensure safety measures and standards are observed by all mining houses in Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, your Committee are not very impressed with the extent to which local contractors are involved in the mining operations. Your Committee are of the view that this particular assurance is not being fully addressed as there is confusion as to who qualifies to be a local contractor. Even those mines which are seemingly doing an excellent job in involving local contractors, such as Mopani and Lumwana Mining companies are at a loss to identify, in definite terms, who the local contractors are.

Sir, your Committee urge the Government to introduce a definition of a local contractor and a local company in the Companies Act to avoid the ambiguity which currently exists between indigenous Zambian registered suppliers and Zambian registered companies, which are being operated by agents of foreign companies.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wish to urge the Government to engage all mining companies in the country to actively involve local contractors and suppliers in capital projects or the supply of capital equipment. Engaging a Zambian-based company like Scaw Limited to supply grinding materials, deformed bars and acetylene would be most welcome. The former Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) Limited used to use Scaw Limited in all the matters mentioned above and there was no complaint with their products.

Mr Speakers, the Government should not be seen to encourage the new mines and the privatised mines to keep ignoring the local manufacturers, contractors and suppliers in preference for foreign manufacturers and suppliers.

Mr Speaker, I may go on and on to belabour on this matter of involving local contractors in the mining operations. Many issues came out on the matter but for the sake of allowing others to contribute, allow me to express my gratitude to you for your wise guidance to your Committee throughout the year. We are also indebted to you for allowing your Committee to undertake the tours which acted as an eye opener to many issues through on-the-spot experience and encounters.

May I also extend my gratitude to all Permanent Secretaries and other chief executives of all the organisations which contributed vital information to enable your Committee compile this report on Government assurances.

Sir, I will be failing in my duties if I do not, also, thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff on the invaluable service they rendered to your Committee so unreservedly throughout the year.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Magande: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the second wish to speak now or later?

Mr Chitonge: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, firstly, I wish to congratulate the mover of the Motion for the adoption of the Second Report of the Committee on Government Assurances for the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

Secondly, I commend him for the able manner in which he has pointed out some of the critical assurances made on the Floor of this House. During your Committee’s tour on the mines, namely, Mopani Copper Mines plc, Konkola Copper Mines plc, Kansanshi Mining plc and Lumwana Mining Company Limited, your Committee interacted with representatives of local contractors and suppliers of goods and services to the mines.

Mr Speaker, your Committee learnt that with the exception of Mopani Copper Mines plc, the rest of the mining companies have been failing or neglecting to pay the local suppliers their agreed dues, purporting that the global economic crunch has adversely affected their efforts and profits.

Mr Speaker, what these mining companies are doing is that, after they agree in writing concerning the contractual sums to be paid, on the day and payment, they offer the local suppliers a lesser sum or ask them to wait for an indefinite period for the full amount subject to improvements in their profits. This scenario has put the local suppliers of goods and services to the mines in a precarious position as they are forced to accept less amounts at the expense of growing their businesses.

Sir, in light of this, your Committee implore the Government to find ways of helping our people who are dealing with the mines to benefit from our God-given resources. Once this is done, then and only then will your Committee be satisfied that the assurance has been attended to adequately.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I urge the hon. Members of this House to support the adoption of the Committee’s Report.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: As I call for any further debate, I wish to guide the House as follows:

(a) The debaters will refer to issues that are raised in my Committee’s Report and not embark on a cross country debate;

(b) hon. Members will realise that the issues contained in my current report were debated, in fact, yesterday, inadvertently. If you already made comments on the matters contained in this report, it might be wiser for you to let others debate the matter; and

(c) always remember that if you adopt this report timely, you will, in turn, receive the Action-Taken Report from the Executive on this matter in good time.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, in supporting the adoption of the Second Report of your Committee on Government Assurances, I would like to start by submitting that the Government has had the Chipata/Lundazi Road tarred. In terms of works, only eighty-four kilometres of the road has been tarred contrary to what was submitted to your Committee. Your Committee was told that the contract which was entered into with the contractor, Rubex Construction, was to tar 100 kilometres. To date, only eighty-four kilometres has been done and Rubex Construction has since pulled out of the project. We are wondering when the remaining kilometers will be attended to since the contract was to tar 100 kilometres.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to talk about the Great East Road. While the Government has carried out piece-meal patching of the road between Nyimba and Petauke, I regret to inform the House that with these rains, the potholes have already started opening up. I, therefore, hope that the Government will, this time around, source funding to ensure that this strip of the road is completely resurfaced.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also reported on the Chama/Matumbo Bridge which was supposed to have been constructed under the ROADSIP project as far back as 1998. It is now 2009, and this bridge has not been constructed. Through you, Sir, may I urge the Government to ensure that this outstanding commitment is carried out. A lot of time has passed without the commitment being honoured.

Mr Speaker, a commitment was made by the Government to work on the Mwami Turn-off Road which leads to Mwami Hospital. I do, however, regret to say that to date, nothing has been done. Perhaps, the Government will, this time around, take a fresh look at this and ensure that the commitments are honoured.

Finally, I would like to request the Government to address the works on the Chipata/Chadiza Road. This road has been forgotten even though year in and year out, the Government is making promises to do the needful. Unfortunately, this is yet to be realised.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the adoption of your Committee’s report.

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I thank you, once again, for the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Second Report of your Committee on Government Assurances. The second report is as thorough and as comprehensive as the first one and I thank the Committee, once again, for their good piece of work.

Mr Speaker, the views of your Committee on the use of effective but non-lethal tools for crowd control by the police, such as rubber bullets, water canons, tear gas, short and long buttons and shields are, indeed, in accordance with Government policy on this matter. To this effect, the Government has in the recent past committed annual funding towards procurement of this protective equipment for crowd control. In fact, hon. Members of the House will be interested to know that the police command has trained a number of officers, about 750 of them, for effective crowd control using non-lethal weapons.

Mr Speaker, on the question of bursaries, I would like to state from the outset that the Government is committed to assisting vulnerable and orphaned students to access tertiary education. Presently, the Ministry of Education, the Treasury and other stakeholders are working on a programme to introduce a students’ loan board, comparable to the one in Kenya, as recommended by your Committee. This board will not only address issues of loans but also issues of traceability of recipients of the loans as suggested, again, by your Committee. The Government has noted your Committee’s proposal to extend the loan scheme to other universities such as Mulungushi, Zambia Open University, Cavendish and other colleges.

Mr Speaker, regarding the issues of geological mapping and use of contractors to undertake contractual work in the mining industry as well as safety issues, I wish to appreciate the kind sentiments by your Committee on the measures of safety in the mining industry and others and the fact that mine safety inspectors are frequently visiting mines like Mopani, Konkola, Kansanshi and Lumwana. Their concern on the involvement of local contractors in mining is noted, including the issues of the definition of a local contractor or company. Necessary consultations will be made to see how best to involve our local entrepreneurs to work more closely with the mining houses.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members will appreciate that the Mines and Minerals Act of 2008 promotes the use of local contractors by making the requirement for all large-scale mining companies to submit, as part of their application, proposals for promotion of the following:

(i) participation of Zambian entrepreneurs in the procurement and supply of business opportunities with the applicant;

(ii) setting up entrepreneurs of import substitution, repair and maintenance of businesses locally;

(iii) partnership between Zambian entrepreneurs and foreign suppliers and contractors; and

(iv) skills development to enable Zambian entrepreneurs attain quality standards in contract work and supply.

Furthermore, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security is processing amendments to the Employment Act which are aimed at addressing issues of giving more support to the Zambianisation Policy. These measures are all aimed at increasing participation of local companies and contractors in the mining operations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate and I would like to urge all hon. Members to support the report of the Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Chifumu Banda, SC., for his comments. I would also like to thank the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House for supporting and acknowledging the issues that were raised in your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, in so doing, I would like to appeal to the Leader of Government Business in the House to make sure that hon. Ministers make the effort to ensure that the assurances that they make in this House are addressed. There are a lot of outstanding assurances and your Committee are worried that the number will keep on rising. I am, therefore, appealing to the Government to quickly look at the Action-Taken Report and make sure that all the outstanding assurances are completed.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

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COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in
the Chair]

VOTE 90 to 98 – (Office of the President – Provinces: Lusaka – K30,325,613,618, Copperbelt – K39,186,409,252, Central – K31,483,510,630, Northern – K40,313,349,197, Western – K31,651,033,920, Eastern – K35,550,975,794, Luapula – K31,199,032,371, North-Western Province – K32,347,373,614 and Southern Province –K39,597,098,843).

(Consideration Resumed)

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Chairperson, that grader only graded five kilometers which was done in one day. I would like to urge the hon. Minister to look into this problem and handle over those machines to councils.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate.

Mr Chairperson, from the out set, I would like to sate that Luapula Province is part of this Unitary State called Zambia.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: There are professional women and men from Luapula working in other provinces where they are contributing to the economic activities and the well being of this country.

Mr Chairperson, we, in the Luapula Province, from independence, have warmly received our brothers and sisters from other provinces who have been sent to the province to work …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: ...and we value their contribution.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: As a province, our history cannot be under paid by careless statements coming from some leaders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Sir, in the Federal days, the late Mr John Mwanakatwe was voted on the upper role as an hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa District. The late John Mwanakatwe did not come from the Luapula Province.

Immediately after gaining independence, our first hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa was Mr Dingiswayo Banda, a Tumbuka. I am trying to give history, Sir. The qualifications for these two and many others who have worked in Luapula was simply because they were Zambians.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Issues of region, tribe, race and colour have never been part of our vocabulary in the province and cannot be entertained at this time. We have people who, as I have already stated, are working in other provinces. Hon. Mbulakulima who has been appointed by His Excellency the President to serve the people of the Copperbelt does not come from the Copperbelt.

Hon. Members: hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Chinyanta and many others are all contributing in other areas and there is nothing special about people coming to the Luapula Province to help us. Therefore, they should not be mistreated.

Ho. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Mr Chairperson, having said this, allow me, through you, to assure Dr Kawimbe and all the provincial leadership that has been sent to our province that we shall continue to support them and work with them as we develop the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Mr Chairperson, the challenges in the Luapula Province are many. However, certain issues are such as the building of schools is being attended to. We are expecting a high school in Chienge and another in Milenge. District hospitals are also being built in Samfya and Chienge and we are expecting to have district hospitals in Mwense and Milenge next year.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: The Government is building this infrastructure and undertaking many programmes in the Luapula province. However, there are other projects that remain on the drawing board and have been there for many years. We have constantly talked about the upgrading of the Kasikishi/Luchinda Road in this House just as we have the Kawambwa/Mansa Road. We require that Government upgrades these roads to tarmac standard. The construction of the Lubwe/Kasaba embankment leading into Luwingu is one other project that we have talked about in this House for many years. I just wanted to highlight these projects although there are others that require to be attended to.

Mr Chairperson, grading of these roads, every year or every after a few years, is expensive because there is simply dust being added onto already dusty roads. It is not helping us. Just imagine how much money has been spent to grade and re-gravel the pedicle road. Each rainy season, the road gets so bad that it needs to be looked at the next year. The Government should tarmac some of these roads so that its only concern thereafter can be maintenance.

Sir, coming to the Luena Farm Block, we, in the province, are happy that, at last, some money, although not enough, has been provided in next year’s Budget for preliminary works. My appeal to the Government is that it should release money in good time so that works commence immediately at the beginning of the year.

Mr Chairperson, the Kawambwa Tea Company problem remains unresolved. I, once again, appeal to the Government to intervene and help in resolving the problem at the Kawambwa Tea Company with the private owners who have no regard for the welfare of the workers.

Mr Chairperson, it has been very difficult for the people at the estate and those living around the estate to appreciate or see what the Government is dong in Kawambwa and, indeed, in the province because of the suffering the people have endured close to ten years. Therefore, they cannot be blamed.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I would like to talk about fish restocking. Our lakes and rivers have been depleted of fish stocks due to over fishing and bad fishing methods. I would like to appeal to the Government to embark on a serious fish restocking exercise and also come up with serious sensitisation programmes to teach our fishermen on the best fishing practices. Once this is done, it will go a long way in improving the household food security as well as employment creation.

Mr Chairperson, with these words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice on the debate for expenditure for the Copperbelt Province.

Sir, from the out set, I would like to say that I fully support the budget to the Copperbelt Province. In doing so, I want to raise a few pertinent issues that I feel are important to the development of the Copperbelt.

Sir, first and foremost, I want to make a comment on the equipment that has been sent to the Copperbelt. It is extremely disheartening to note that since this equipment was brought to the Copperbelt, it has only been effectively applied in the rural constituencies of Mpongwe, Masaiti Kafulafuta and Lufwanyama.

Sir, last year, the Government allocated K2.5 billion for the fuel of this equipment. This equipment only came to Luanshya for about three days in Hon. Kachimba’s constituency and I was told that the following week, it was going to be in Roan Constituency. However, to date, this equipment has not been seen. I have made several attempts to get this equipment by approaching the offices of the District Commissioner and the Town Clerk and I have been told that a programme will be drawn up. To date, there is no programme that has been drawn.

For this reason, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt to ensure that the usage of the equipment is not politicised. That equipment is meant for all Zambians, including the people on the Copperbelt Province. If we are going to look at the political affiliation of the hon. Member of Parliament serving in that particular constituency, then we are going to fail and that equipment will be of no use to the Copperbelt Province.

Sir, let me also state that Copperbelt Province is the only province where hon. Members of Parliament do not attended the Provincial Development Co-ordinating Committee (PDCC) meetings. We were only invited once and since then, we do not get notices of the meetings. Why should we only read in the newspaper about there having been a PDCC meeting? Even the minutes are not extended to the hon. Members of Parliament. Sir, you are aware that hon. Members of Parliament are cardinal members in the development of their constituencies. If the provincial administration is going to discuss any development in the respective areas without involving them, that discussion is as good as non-fruitful.

Therefore, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister and the Permanent Secretary not to look at the situation of the Copperbelt being full of Opposition hon. Members of Parliament and use this as a basis for not inviting them to the PDCC meetings. These PDCC meetings are for all stakeholders in the province. I think if we are going to narrow the issue of the PDC meetings to politics and political affiliation, then, Sir, we are not going to go anywhere in as far as development is concerned.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hold on Mr Kambwili. You are saying PDC …

Mr Kambwili: Provincial Development Committee.

Hon. Government Members: PDCC.

The Deputy Chairperson: Alright, you may continue, please.

Dr Musonda: He does not know because he has never attended!

Mr Kambwili: How do we attend when he does not invite us?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kambwili: As I was saying, we need to move away from political thinking and think development because development knows no political affiliation.

Sir, I admire the people of the Northern Province because I talk to the hon. Members of Parliament from there and every time there are these kinds of meetings, they are invited. Sometimes, Parliament may be sitting, but one still hears hon. Members from Northern Province saying that they are going for the provincial meeting. This, indeed, is a very good development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I would urge the provincial administration on the Copperbelt to emulate the provincial administration in the Northern Province because development knows no colour nor political affiliation.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, let me now turn to the Kafulafuta/Luanshya Road. The Government spent a lot of money to work on this road. The late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, officiated the opening of this road. Today, when you move on that road, it is a sorry sight. Why should the Government spend so much money to work on a road that gets completely damaged after in less than two? The road is, extremely bad, especially along the stretch from Chimbila through to kwa Mukolwe up to about Kafubu Block Turn Off. So far, we have recorded about four trucks careering off the road during the night as a result of the huge potholes.

Sir, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply and, of course, the provincial administration to, at least, do some preliminary works on that road as they are doing on the Great East Road to save the lives of people. This road is now becoming a danger and an eye sore to the people of the Copperbelt Province.

The Kitwe/Chingola Road, Sir, is now carrying heavy traffic of trucks coming from South Africa, Botswana and within Zambia. To overtake on this road is a non-existent thought. The road is so congested that it is becoming extremely difficult to travel to Chingola, especially from Mondays to Fridays. We need a dual carriage way on this road as soon as possible. We have heard that the Government is doing the feasibility study, but that is not enough. People have continued dying on the Chingola/Kitwe Road, therefore, Can something be done about?

Sir, I do not know whether to call the Mufurila/Sabina Road a road, a line of swimming pools or a line of oxbow lakes. I really do not know how to describe it. This road is in a terrible state and is a danger to the travelling public. Hon. Members of Parliament from Mufulira have stated on the Floor of the House that they need this road to be repaired, but it appears all the appeals of these people are falling on deaf ears.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to appeal to the hon. Minister, the Permanent Secretary and their group on the Copperbelt Province to, at least, budget for the preliminary works to be done on this road. If the Government cannot manage a tarred road, the best thing is to grade off the tarmac as it will even be better that way. As one goes to Kafubu Block from Luanshya, the road there, which is a gravel road, is much better than the road that going to Mufulira. Sometimes, I tend to wonder as to whether the hon. Minister and, indeed, the Permanent Secretary use that road. I believe that in the execution of their duties on a monthly basis, they move on these roads. However, I do not know whether they make presentations to the Ministry of Works and Supply for the road to deteriorate to such standards.

Sir, let me also make mention of one issue that has been raised on the Copperbelt and this is the issue of the way the Zambian employees are being treated at the stadium being constructed in Ndola. It is disheartening to visit the site for this construction and one would feel sorry for the Zambian employees working on the stadium. There are three toilets that have been constructed. Two of them are for the Chinese and are inside the premises while the other one meant for the Zambians is outside the premises. The toilet meant for the use of the Zambians has no water and there is faecal matter all over and people have complained about this. Some of the people that work at the stadium came to complain to me about the state of the toilet not being in good condition and the ill treatment of the Zambian workers. The toilet is outside the premises, but when they enter the premises, they are not allowed to go outside as they are said to steal nails, timber and all sorts of things as they go outside. So, it is extremely difficult for these people to access the toilet and the toilet in question is very dirty.

Sir, I made an effort to visit and told the Chinese to improve the condition of the toilet. Sir, I am sad to report that when that happened, the Hon. Deputy Minister for the Copperbelt condemned me and said that I should concentrate on fighting the cases in Luanshya other than going to interfere with the activities going on in Ndola. Now, an hon. Member of Parliament is a national leader. If the people in Ndola have failed, I am duty bound to go and help the Zambians. Therefore, I do not find anything wrong with my intervention.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: In fact, Sir …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: … when I went there, I was told by the employees that they had reported to the offices of the hon. Minister and the Town Clerk and nothing had been done. Therefore, I am appealing to the hon. Minister not to look at us as enemies when we try to help the Government implement certain things. We are only doing it for the betterment of the people of the Copperbelt.

Mr Mushili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mushili: Mr Chairperson, sorry I did not intend to interrupt a very good debater.

Ms Cifire: Kalipa!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Honestly, I do not know how many times we will advise. How do you expect us, as presiding officers, to take that? Do you want us to just look at you? That is unbecoming. Let us stop that.

You may continue, please.

Mr Mushili: Is Hon. Kambwili in order to forget that the inspection was also done by me and I took the same complaint to the Permanent Secretary, but it is the provincial administration which does not listen …

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you make you point of order.

Mr Mushili: Is Hon. Kambwili in order to forget that I also went there and that the report was given to the provincial administration which never listened. Is he in order not to mention that important fact?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank Hon. Mushili for that reminder. I am made to believe that two hon. Members from Ndola have also visited this stadium and these are the Hon. Zulu, Member for Bwana Mkubwa and the Hon. Mushili, Member for Ndola Central. I would like to appeal to the provincial administration to take up this issue seriously. We should not allow our Zambian brothers and sisters to work under unacceptable conditions.

Mr Chairperson, on the Luanshya Copper Mines, I would like to state that so far so good. I am taken aback because of what is now happening. The Chinese are not concentrating on employing people from Luanshya and the reason is that they know that the people of Luanshya will not accept the low salaries. What is happening is that they have started bringing people from Chambishi and they accommodate them in one house and are paying them K280,000. There are about three houses in Luanshya which are rented for the people coming from Chambishi. There are fifty of them in one house which is not acceptable.

Mr Chairperson, you cannot allow a situation where fifty people are living in a three bed roomed house with one toilet and one bath tub. That is not acceptable. You can see that because of the efforts that we made that when these people come to Luanshya they should pay the people well, they are now trying to avoid doing that by not employing the people of Luanshya for fear of the fact that we, in Luanshya, are not going to accept people to be treated like that.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to state that they should know that even people who come from Chambishi are Zambians. As Zambians, the way we would fight for the people of Luanshya is the same way we would fight for the people of Chambeshi. I am appealing to the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to take an on-the- spot check and verify these facts.

Secondly, I would like to talk about the issue of the Maposa land. This Government has been calling for diversification into the agriculture sector and it is bad to learn that over 3,000 peasant farmers are earmarked for removal from Maposa Zone B. I want to state that we addressed a meeting with Hon. Mbulakulima a year or two ago where he assured the people in Maposa Zone B that nobody was going to evict them and when this exercise started, I went to his office, but the hon. Minister said that he meant Zone C and B. In fact, when that meeting was convened, the people were assured and from time immemorial the people have been getting assurances from the MMD Government that they could build permanent structures as nobody would remove them from that land. But today, this Government wants to remove 3,000 farmers from the rich soil of Zone B to the poor soil of zones A and C. This is not acceptable.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to talk about the grants given to schools in Roan Constituency. These grants have not been forthcoming and they are so small that the schools cannot run. As a result, the burden is now on the parents who are made to pay for this and that. I now urge the Minister of Education to make sure that grants to the secondary and basic schools are sent on time so that our schools can be run accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to contribute to the debate on the Southern Province Vote.

During the eight years I have been in this House, I have proved to be a patriot by dealing with external and less of domestic issues, but it is now necessary that I start debating domestic issues that relate to where my umbilical cord lies and this is Southern Province. While maintaining my internationalist patriotic Zambian position, it is necessary to start reminding our people that we were elected for their interests, especially when we see that their interests are not being attended to and the Government is gravitating to discriminate against them even on the most basics. Hon. Minister, I will put pressure on ensuring that the commitment of this Government performs, especially between now and 2011.

Mr Chairperson, on roads, I would like to say that there is no good reason the equipment that the Southern Province received for road maintenance could have not worked on, at least, a minimum of 25 per cent of roads in the province since it arrived late last year. I have calculated and come to the conclusion that the pieces of equipment, having been moved at a horrendously high cost from Lusaka to Livingstone by-passing most of the districts in the province, only started working in the middle of this year. This is at a horrendous cost in terms of fuel, allowances and everything else that any discernable mind with acumen for financial thinking will do. What good reason can you give me for this?

Mr Chairperson, why would you take graders to Livingstone and back to Kafue for redirection to Siavonga? I would like to be told the basic thinking, if at all there was any, for equipment that ought to have gone to Itezhi-tezhi to go all the way to Livingstone and back to Itezhi-tezhi, Mazabuka and to the rest of the towns. Is that good thinking and planning? Even medicine first goes to the provincial headquarters which is Livingstone and then back to, for instance, Mazabuka Hospital. Everything must head, at a cost, to the provincial capital then be re-distributed. If that is what you call good thinking, I congratulate you, because the cost is high for redeploying these things.

Secondly, I would like to talk on the state of the roads. I would like to say that there is no good reason whatsoever for anybody to think that K2 billion per district is enough to grade roads that have not been rehabilitated since 1986. This is so in Pemba in particular and elsewhere in the Southern Province. If that is good thinking by this Government and by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, who is not in the House and his counterpart in Planning, because to grade a kilometre of a road costs about K2 billion, I congratulate you on the expert advice. I would like to tell you that I would have done it differently and I hope my colleagues will agree with me.

Mr Chairperson, give me a good reason why we should think that with roads which have not been repaired for a long time, agriculture will take off in the Southern Province and elsewhere. Tell me my honourable colleagues …

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is it on procedure?

Mr Muyanda: Yes, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Chairperson, first of all, I wish to sincerely apologise to my brother here, Hon. Matongo, who is debating very well for disturbing the flow of his beautiful debate. I also wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to raise this point of order. Is the hon. Provincial Minister for Western Province, Hon. Mwapela, in order not to make his maiden speech as a Provincial Minister for Western Province? He is sitting there quietly when the people of the Western Province expect him to give a maiden speech? I need your serious ruling, Sir?

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, that is why I asked whether your point of order was on procedure. It clearly shows that the point of order is not really on procedure. Really, let me seize this opportunity to guide the House. Points of order are allowed, but do remember that it is not a right. Therefore, when you said the hon. Minister for Western Province, I turned and looked at him and saw that he was sitting there very quietly and innocently. I think that we should let him continue with his peace.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you continue, please.

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I appeal to the provincial administration to rethink particularly on redeploying those pieces of equipment for optimum utilisation. I hope they understand what optimum utilisation is, at the least cost and the most beneficial manner for the people of the Southern Province.

Mr Chairperson, on water and sanitation, we believe that other than the Kafue and Zambezi rivers on the fringes of the province, we have no water in-between. Therefore, we would like to see that the promise which the MMD Government made in 1991 and 1996 particularly, during by-elections, to provide every village with guju, guju, are honoured. A number of Members of Parliament went to some place before me where promises were made because there were a number of by-elections then and I have been following up on those promises. I am here to stay long because I have a covenant to survive. Hon. Munkombwe and Hon. Mwaanga can carefully explain what that means. They are my elder brothers and they were there when those promises were made.

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: I am merely asking for guju which means borehole.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Therefore, we need to do that. I thank the chiefs, particularly in Choma District who have persuaded councillors to have pit latrines. Some hon. Colleague on my far right will have to contend with it if he has to come to the Southern Province to be where he may not be very comfortable, but we have done very well in that respect as a people.

Mr Chairperson, on hospitals, we need the Choma General Hospital which was, I believe, a prison or some kind of waiting place to be constructed as a hospital. The land has been provided to build a hospital. Please, we need that hospital to be constructed. Now, let me state that in 1991 and 1996, and I have been given this information on authority, it was part of the campaign of the people who are still in Government. If you were not there, let me remind you that the sins of your predecessors are your sins too. There was a complete campaign and I agree with those who were there that we need some kind of hospitals. Listen to this, in 1991, we were to have hospitals on wheels.

Mr Chairperson, the Vice-President stated here that the mobile hospitals are under study elsewhere, but we also need to be included. I hope my friends from Luapula and Western provinces will agree with me that we should be included because it was in that study during the campaign of MMD in 1991 that there shall be mobile hospitals not only in the air like that company in Ndola does, but also on the roads and on water. I want an assurance that there is that study of hospitals on water, particularly for the Western, Southern, Luapula and Northern provinces. That was a commitment made by this Government and if you were not here, we have the archives to remind you.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to come to a very strategic decision of which Hon. Munkombwe was an architect and I commended him at that time. Now, I would like to commend him for bringing extra new districts which were made in 1991. Some of the districts and constituencies need to be redesigned for new districts. Pemba and Mulowezi are supposed to be new districts.

Hon. Opposition Member: Mulobezi not Mulowezi.

Mr Matongo: Mulobezi, I repeat, aisha. Can this Government consider rethinking the delimitation of districts and constituencies so that they can be manageable to be manned by competent people who are public servants. For constituencies, they are already manned by competent people on our side here so that we can show small wonders, as long as you provide the funds. We call for an early delimitation of constituencies and districts exercise before the next elections.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to state here that I personally appreciate the gesture of Mongu/Kalabo Road in Western Province. We want to see this road constructed because now I am a nationalist. We would like to see the Luwingu/Kawambwa, Great East, …

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

Mr Matongo: Lindila. … Chipata/Lundazi roads repaired and above all and more importantly, we would like to see the Bottom Road constructed …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: … and the compensation paid to our people who were relocated from the valley and elsewhere.

Hon. Government Member shook his head.

Mr Matongo: If you are shaking your head, we are taking your constituency away from you, come 2011.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: We also want to state clearly …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Matongo: … that on cattle restocking, when the Government comes to respond, they should tell us where the balance of K10 billion went. One cow per ten villages is totally a height of unreasonableness in cattle restocking. What you should do is give people cattle on loan which should be payable after three years and provide common male per cluster of villages and prepare the dip tanks. Then, you would have solved the problems of the rural people. Please, do tell us where the money went. In as far as the one cow per ten villagers you gave, they have since died of denkete and I wish to say that was a waste of resources.

I want to state here, on behalf of the province, that education and health infrastructure in the province and elsewhere in the country are as deplorable as the appearance of some of the people who are looking at me.

Please, make an improvement on that.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

Mr Matongo: Trade schools …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! It is that type of language that sometimes brings problems. So I would advise the hon. Member for Pemba to be civil.

You may continue, please.

Mr Matongo: I meant those up there, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Do not talk about people who are not part of this discussion.

Mr Matongo: While on this subject, I also wish to urge the Executive to engage us in its plans. We want to be part of the various developments that are taking place in this country, just as we were part of the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). We want to see hon. Ministers that can perform by engaging the men and women on this side that are willing to work with them. The politics of yesterday of only wanting to work with those in one’s own party are long gone and come 2011, some hon. Members on your right might be part of us.

Mr Mulyata interjected.

Mr Matongo: Of course, you will not be there, so it does not matter.

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, finally, I appeal to hon. Members of this House to be accommodative and to work together in the interest of this country. What is good for the north is good for the south. What is good for the west is also good for the east. Team work will serve this country. I wish you well as you go for your Christmas. God bless you all.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

The Deputy Chairperson: I was consulting on the issue of when hon. Ministers should speak and I have been told that hon. Ministers for provinces should wait until all backbenchers have spoken. So hon. Ministers will have to wait.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for allowing me to air my voice on behalf of the good and patriotic people of Central Province. I am specifically going to talk about issues on the ground in Katuba Constituency. These are issues which also affect other constituencies in Chibombo District and with the indulgence and permission of the hon. Members of Parliament for Keembe and Chisamba, I will try as much as possible to generalise the issues which affect our areas.

Mr Chairperson, I think it has been echoed by a lot of hon. Members of Parliament that we are happy and proud that the Government was kind enough to embark on a road rehabilitation programme through the acquisition of road equipment from China. This is a loan to the Republic of Zambia, but I think what should be looked at is how efficiently we use this equipment. We should focus on how the people of Zambia are going to benefit from this equipment.

Mr Chairperson, there are a lot of ways in which we can show efficiency in the use of this equipment. However, there are times when we only show efficiency when we have by-elections and I think this is not right. Roads in some areas in Central Province have not been worked on this year because the equipment was withdrawn and taken to places where there were by-elections. This resulted in delays in works on some roads in our province. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this equipment going to assist in works in other areas because this is a good thing. However, it is wrong for the people who need road services to suffer because by the time the rainy season comes, our people cannot communicate because the roads are bad.

I am happy that at the moment, about eighteen kilometres of the Mungule road is being done in Katuba. However, this means that the people of Katuba Ward, whose roads are very bad, will not benefit from the use of this equipment. This is because money has already been spent on the Mungule road and therefore, what is remaining is not enough to do the fifteen miles of Chombela road which is impassable. I wonder how our pregnant mothers in need of health services, which are twenty-three kilometres away in Kalosha, will be able to travel on this road.

So when we make political decisions, we should do so as human beings. Let us make decisions knowing that there other people who need services in this country. I am very passionate about the people of Katuba and I have told them that the time will come when we will access this equipment and I hope it is very soon.

I understand that there is some money that has been allocated to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for the rehabilitation of the road I am talking about. I also understand that because of budgetary constraints, that money has not been released. I know the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, Dr Kazonga, to be very straightforward and a person whom I think sees everyone else for what they are. I, therefore, urge him to look into this issue. His ministry is supposed to release some money for this project and I hope it can be done in next year’s budget, although I am also aware that this project was already funded last year. I have no doubt that this will be done because he is one of the most sober hon. Ministers that this Government has.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about bridges. We had a World Bank funded project through which we were given bailey bridges. The Ministry of Works and Supply came in and did some work about three years ago, but what I hear is that these bailey bridges are now lying on their bellies at the warehouses of the Ministry of Works and Supply. In the meantime, our people are being washed away by floods when it rains. I do even know who to blame for the deaths of the people who are being washed away by heavy rains. I hope this project can be completed in the quickest possible time so that we are able to offer relief to our people. I think I have not seen a bridge being done in Katuba in the last seven years and I just hope the ministries responsible can move in and help the people.

The Central Province hon. Minister is on holiday in Bahamas. I wish …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! It is not true that the hon. Minister for Central Province is on holiday in Bahamas. Hon. Shakafuswa, I think you should say the right thing otherwise you will mislead people.

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: The hon. Minister for Central Province is not in the House now, but I would have loved him to come and answers questions on how we can help the people of Kabile by doing the Kapopola road. The people of my constituency have contributed money for the rehabilitation of this road, but it is not adequate. I would have loved the provincial hon. Minister to come and respond to the issues that I have raised because he is aware of the problems so that we can actually work on them.

Mr Chairperson, I commended Hon. Kazonga as someone I know personally who is a straightforward person, but I also want add that I have had a very good relationship with the Permanent Secretary and hon. Minister for Central Province. Though the hon. Minister has been too busy to regularly hold meetings that he used have with hon. Members of Parliament. It looks like maybe it is just age catching up with him or maybe the pressure of work.

Mr Chilembo: I will raise a point of order.

Mr Shakafuswa: You stand up.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I am asking the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to look into the issue of inputs. We received some inputs in August, but they only included top dressing fertiliser and some seeds. However, in some areas the inputs have not yet been delivered because the District Agricultural coordinating Officer (DACO) is saying that they cannot give inputs because the basal fertiliser is not there. Depending on the type of seed and as time goes, where are we going to beg for the rains? Unless we shall find a way of creating extra rains in March or April, but I know that it is impossible because we lack technology and since the people from Western Province no longer practice witchcraft.

I am urging the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operative to step in and ensure that seeds are given to farmers on time so that by the time the basal fertiliser is delivered, they will be able to do those tuma holes and put basal fertilisers for them to be, at least, able to get …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Use the official language. There is nothing like tuma holes. Speak proper English. You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: I am sorry, Sir. It is just that I am not like Hon. Muntanga who practices farming by knowledge. We practice farming by accident.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, if farmers are able to access maize seed, they can then plant without basal fertilisers and by the time the seed germinates, they should be able to put holes by the ka plant which is coming out so that, at least, …

The Deputy Chairperson: You see if you have made your points and you are looking for more points, you better end your debate. If you still have some points you can continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: No Sir, I did not have the right word to describe what I wanted to say that is why I was fishing around. I will now give chance to other people to talk especially if there are people from Western Province who might be willing to talk.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Magande (Chilanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to join in the debate. Sir, through you, I thank the hon. Deputy Minister for Lusaka Province for having fought extremely hard to have his estimates increased this year by K2.5 billion. I see that quite a lot of this additional money is going towards road infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, Chilanga Constituency which I represent is a very important constituency. Lusaka Province is home to the capital city of this country. It is the residence for most of the decision-makers who are in Government, private sector; and of course, the diplomats. Most of these people apart from the diplomats who, obviously, have boundaries and restrictions of where to stay, the rest of the decision-makers, the majority of them reside in my constituency. Also there are many hon. Members of Parliament who are in Chilanga Constituency, in Shimabala, Chilanga Township, Makeni, Lusaka West, Kalundu area, Kasupe; and indeed, as far as Mwembeshi.

However, we seem to ignore these people when it comes to their requirements. The major requirement for this area is the road infrastructure. It is pathetic that, for example, we might be able to get K1.3 trillion for the Mongu/Kalabo Road in order for my good friends who are coming from here to move quickly from Mongu to Kalabo when it is a nightmare to get out of Lusaka to go to Mongu. The route going westwards is the only one without a dual carriageway. For the purpose of our discussion let us take the post office as the epicentre. If you are going north, you will be using a dual carriageway. If you are going east, you will be using a dual carriageway, and if you are going south, you will be using a dual carriageway. However, if you want to go west, you get into a congested road that takes you not perhaps, less than 30 minutes just to get out of the traffic on Lumumba Road as you head towards Garden Motel. Therefore, I thought that my good friends who are crying for the Mongu/Kalabo Road would first make sure that we have a good road for them to get out of Lusaka.

Mr Chairperson, part of the bigger Lusaka City plan was supposed to include the expansion of that particular road, but every time I raise a question here on what is being done in terms of the Lusaka City Master Plan, I do not hear that road being referred to. Therefore, I want to plead with the Lusaka Provincial Administration as well as the Lusaka City Council to construct a proper road between Lumumba Road and Mumbwa Road Junction up to, at least, some 10 kilometres out of town. That area is becoming very crowded because of the construction works on the northern side of Garden Motel.

The other road infrastructure in the area is there basically to provide for agricultural activities and also for some social activities for the people in that area. Most of the people in that area work in town, some of them come into town to do their shopping because there are no large super markets there, while others take their children to schools in other places. Like I have said, most of the top executives and hon. Members of Parliament in here come into town every day for work. Good examples of a few hon. Ministers here who live in my constituency include my good hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Musokotwane. Therefore, if the road infrastructure is not developed, it will frustrate these executives because by the time they get to their offices, their blood pressure will be very high. At times that is why we do not get good decisions because they are made under the frustrations of just wanting to get into town.

Last night, as I was trying to get home, I went through what I would describe as pathetic traffic. Some of you, I am sure when you knocked off here going to your homes in Chilanga Constituency area, you must have taken between 30 minutes to an hour. Now you can imagine, getting home late after the hard work from here. When you get home, you are supposed to be discussing issues with your family. However, how can you interact with your school going children when you are in a frustrated mood? Sir, until we look after the decision makers well in terms of their requirements, we will continue having frustrated people in office making wrong decisions or not making decisions at all. This constituency of mine indeed is extremely important for that purpose. It is one constituency for, example, which has another six or seven constituencies on the border. If you go to the eastern side, you have Kafue Constituency, westwards up to Mwembeshi and then northwards you have Katuba Constituency. You can imagine the categories of people that you will find in those constituencies. I heard my good friend and neighbour, the hon. Member for Matero debating about problems in Matero Constituency. The truth of the matter is that the difficulties she is going through, for example, the lack of proper drainage and good sanitation are also connected to Chilanga Constituency. The water from Matero carries with it very undesirable materials which get into Chunga River and this river provides drinking water for the people of both Chilanga, Katuba right up to Mwembeshi Constituencies.

People drinking this water coming from Matero Township, which has no proper sewerage system, are at risk. This is a very big problem and something has to be done in this particular area.

Let me talk about the land issue in Chilanga Constituency and this is important for Lusaka Province and Lusaka City. We have to start planning for Lusaka City for 2030 now and this means somebody has to be interested in land which is even fifty kilometres out of Lusaka. Let us not talk about Mazyopa people. As you are already aware, when Mazyopa people were removed from the Catholic land...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may continue.

Mr Magande: ... they were taken to another piece of land within Lusaka, but eventually to Chongwe District. Therefore, Chongwe District, being in Lusaka Province, has to be considered as part of the development of Lusaka City. There is an outflow of people from townships in Lusaka City into the outer areas of Lusaka Province. Unless our plans will be so futuristic as to think of what to do with these people in twenty years’ time, we will crowd ourselves in areas like Chibolya and there will be no land for industries.

Mr Chairperson, let me also say that it has also become a problem to contain the young people that grab empty or unutilised land around Lusaka and start sub-dividing it. This is obviously causing a very serious problem.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of health...

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I do not actually rise on points of order. Is the hon. Member for Chilanga in order not to mention that these people who are demarcating land are actually members of his own party? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Chilanga may continue.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Thank you, Sir. I want to admit that some of them are members of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) but, obviously, some of them belong to other parties. However, whether they are MMD or Patriotic Front (PF) or the pact, it does not matter. We still have to accommodate them by having a proper and systematic plan. At the time that they invade these farms, they do not show any political cards.

At this point, Mr Chairperson, I want to thank the hon. Member for Pemba, who is not in the House that, in answer to the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka, he said the MMD promised a lot of things like hospitals and water when it came to power in 1991. I want to say that this was very encouraging this afternoon for me because it means the spirit of the MMD in 1991 still lives.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: There are those who still remember what we promised ourselves when creating the MMD in 1991. We promised ourselves democracy and development. Democracy is being implemented, but development takes time. Democracy is legislated and that is what we did, but development is not. Development has to come by systematic realisation. In order for anyone to build a house, you have to start with a foundation. You cannot put a roof on a house which has no walls. This reminds us that the MMD delivered economic policies. Let anybody here argue that the economic policies of the MMD have not worked in the last years...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
RRR
People drinking this water coming from Matero Township, which has no proper sewerage system, are at risk. This is a very big problem and something has to be done in this particular area.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may continue.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of health...

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Chilanga may continue.

Laughter

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

Mr Magande: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was saying that the MMD Government, from 1991, has delivered economic policies.

Many of the hon. Members, here, have praised the Ministry of Education for having constructed schools in their respective areas. I am happy to report that the ministry is constructing one more high school in Chilanga Constituency and this is happening in many other constituencies. I am also aware that a lot of clinics and hospitals are being built in various parts of the country, but we must sit down together and make a plan about what we want to do for this country. If we continue talking about the failures of the MMD, PF and UPND, there will be no progress. In fact, the other two parties have not been in Government and so they have never failed anything.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: In fact, they have not been tested. We do not know whether they can build schools like what the MMD has done.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Therefore, it is very important that we spend a little bit of time on the drawing board and take note of our failures. In terms of the policies so far that have been put in place, they were collectively done when the movement was established. How many hon. Members on your left were in the movement or at the Garden Motel? Hon. Members on your left say MMD policies do not work. They work but it is because some of you are not fully participating. You are not involving the people as the hon. Member for Pemba said. Hon. Members must go to Pemba Constituency and see what is being done there. There is development in that area. In order for us to see meaningful development, all of us must have a role to play.
Mr Chairperson, I want to say that this budget for Lusaka Province runs short of what we are doing because we have to make sure that the capital city is worthy the name it is. If we have shanty compounds in the capital city, then we are going to be the laughing stock of those people who come from outside. We go overseas and admire what other people are doing, but some of these things have been planned for over ten years. Construction of a big highway, for example, cannot be done in one month. This is the message I want to put across. However, I would like the Government to pay attention to the outskirts of Lusaka City because this is where the transformation of Lusaka City will be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Well debated for the first time.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the vote for North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, on the onset, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the newest baby in Parliament, Hon. Lumba, for scooping the Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency seat. People used to call me a twin because there were only two of us from North-Western Province with the hon. Member for Mwinilunga East, Mr Katuka, in the Opposition. Now, people are saying we are triplets and so we would like to congratulate ourselves in the North-Western Province for coming up with triplets. I am sure that by 2011, there will be more members from one family.

Sir, I would also like to congratulate the newly-appointed hon. Minister for the North-Western Province although he was appointed silently because some of us did not know, but I would like to congratulate him for that appointment and I hope that we are going to work together to develop our province.

Mr Chairperson, North-Western Province is said to be the new copper belt for Zambia. It is going to be the new oil and maize belt for Zambia. However, for the province to contribute meaningfully to the development of this country, we need to develop its road infrastructure in order for us to accelerate development in the province.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You are consulting too loudly.

Mr Kakoma: The road infrastructure in the province is in a deplorable state. In fact, this was made clear during the Solwezi Central Parliamentary By-election when His Honour the Vice-President failed to drive along the roads in the constituency. He had to fly in a helicopter to cover a distance which is the same as that between National Assembly Parliament Buildings and National Assembly Motel. He flew in helicopter for such a short distance …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Boma!

Mr Kakoma: … because there were no bridges to take him to the next place. That contributed to the loss of their Solwezi Central seat.

Mr Chairperson …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Chairperson, I have difficulties in raising this point of order although it is very serious.

Hon. Opposition Members: Why are you raising it?

Mr Sichilima: Is the hon. Member in order to debate His Honour the Vice-President who is not in the House? He is also misinforming the nation that when the Vice-President was in Solwezi to drum up support for the MMD candidate, he flew over a distance that is the same as that between the National Assembly Buildings and the National Assembly Motel and yet there was also a different programme that he needed to attend to. The people had been complaining about other issues and he needed to inform them about the Government’s correct position. Besides, constitutionally, he is entitled to use the helicopter. I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Since the hon. Deputy Minister has debated his point of order, Mr Kakoma may take that into account as he continues debating.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your wise guidance.

Sir, North-Western Province, and Solwezi Central, in particular, has serious problems regarding roads and bridges that have not been constructed by the Government. The Chingola/Solwezi Road is being damaged on a daily basis by trucks carrying copper from Lumwana and Kansanshi mines, but this Government is doing nothing to redesign and construct that road into a dual carriageway. The Government has just been promising that it is going to construct a dual carriageway between Chingola and Solwezi, but nothing has been done. There is no provision for that road even in the 2010 Budget. The Government is now trying to pass that problem to the private-public partnership (PPP) which is still a pipe dream.

Mr Chairperson, we also have important roads such as the Mutanda/Chavuma Road, which I will never stop talking about …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: … because for the past two years, the work on this road has have been stagnant in Mufumbwe District. Between Mufumbwe and Chavuma, where the road is supposed to end, there is still more than 350 kilometres to cover. Now, you can imagine with the small allocations of money in the budget which are only enough to cover five to ten kilometres in a year, how long it will take for that road to reach Chavuma.

Sir, the people of North-Western Province are fed up with the false promises that have been made by this Government to tar the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. That is why you have seen a dramatic change from the people of North-Western Province who are now demanding for a change of Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: That is why, when the Vice-President was travelling through Solwezi township, people who lined up along the road were chanting that they wanted change.

Ms Lundwe: Niwe wabebele kabili!

Mr Kakoma: They have seen that if the MMD continues to be in government, no development will take place in North-Western Province. The other roads that have not been worked on are the Limunge/Mwinilunga/Muzhinge Road, Kasempa/Mumbwa Road and Kasempa/Kaoma Road which are supposed to be the shortest routes from Lusaka to North-Western Province. However, these roads continue to appear in the Yellow Book, but no tangible work is being done on them. We are wondering where the money is going.

Mr Chairperson, when you go to districts like Kabompo, Mwinilunga, Zambezi, Chavuma and Mufumbwe, you will notice that all the roads are in a deplorable state. Without the road infrastructure being attended to in North-Western Province, the MMD Government is sinking itself. They are done because, as leaders from the province, we will continue to rub it in because if these roads are not worked on, we will need to change this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It will be changed in 2011.

Sir, the people of North-Western Province are demanding for change because of the failed agricultural policies by the MMD Government. The Government went to tell the people of North-Western Province through the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives that not only have they changed the policy of the Farmer Input Support Programme, but they have also changed the policies for co-operatives. If a co-operative has fifty members, they would only give fertiliser to five members and the remaining forty-five will have nothing.

Interruptions

Mr Kakoma: That has annoyed the people.

The Government held meetings to tell the people that even in villages, if there are about 20 villagers, only two villagers would benefit from the Farmer Input Support Programme and the remaining eighteen would be left out. That annoyed the people. That is why you are seeing the changed political landscape in the North-Western Province.

Sir, as I said earlier on, the North-Western Province is supposed to be a maize built. It is not only supposed to be the bread basket for Zambia, but also for Africa because it has everything. The province has plenty of land and adequate rainfall. God has blessed us, the people of the North-Western Province, with good weather conditions. This Government is talking about opening of farming blocks in other provinces, but there is nothing happening in the North-Western Province. These are the things that are making the people of this province upset with this Government.

Mr Chairperson, in the North-Western Province, there is plenty of green grass for animals to graze, but this Government does not even consider this province for the cattle restocking programme. This Government does not even consider…

Mr Mulonga: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, I have never risen on a point of order. Is this hon. Member who is debating and sinking so low in order to mislead the people of Zambia in general and the people of the North-Western Province, in particular, that only two provinces will benefit from the FSIP when, in fact, in the North-Western Province, we have increased the number of beneficiaries of farm inputs from the current 234,000 to 500,000, countrywide. Is he in order to tell the nation that we are not taking the restocking programme of cattle and livestock seriously when, in fact, we are constructing a K400 million livestock market in the North-Western Province for the people to benefit from it. Is he in order to continue cheating the people of Zambia?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Kakoma, take the hon. Minister’s point of order into account as you debate. Continue.

Hon. Government Member: And apologise!

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing me to continue with my debate. I will ignore that point of order because such kind of reasoning makes the people of the North-Western Province even more annoyed with this Government.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, let me talk about health. In the 2010 Budget, I have noticed that a number of mission hospitals have been left out in terms of the budgetary provisions. The North-Western Province has got very big mission hospitals and some such as the Mukinge Mission Hospital have been budgeted for. However, Chitokoloki Mission Hospital has not been budgeted for and we know that it is a very big hospital.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are not listening. Consult quietly.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Kakoma: We also have other big mission hospitals such as Chinyingi Mission Hospital, Loma Hospital in Kabompo and Palata Mission Hospital which have been left out. These are very big mission hospitals which people depend on, and yet this Government has decided to neglect them so that the people of the North-Western Province can continue to suffer from diseases while the Government just watches.

Sir, finally, let me touch the issue of Karavinas, which this Government has continued to neglect in the province. The Karavinas are people that kill other people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mwangala!

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: This is very widespread, especially in Chavuma, Zambezi and Kabompo. Just last week, I received reports that one of the sub-chiefs had been shot dead by the Karavinas. In the last six months, these Karavinas, who were originally targeting people who practiced witchcraft, have now started targeting even civil servants. They went and attacked one basic school and that school has since been closed because the teachers have run away. They have also gone ahead to attack some health centres and the health staff have also run away.

Sir, what is disappointing is that this Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government does not even have the means of tackling the problem of Karavinas in the province. Each time I report this problem, this Government claims that it has no transport. How can the whole Government have no transport to go and see the situation, and yet it has plenty of resources and transport to carry out other luxurious issues. However, when it comes to issues that are affecting the lives of the people of North-Western Province, it becomes reluctant, and yet people are being murdered in cold blood. If this Government will continue to neglect the people of the North-Western Province, they will also decide to neglect it. It will be changed for another new Government that will be formed in 2011 by the United Party for National Development (UPND) and Patriotic Front (PF) Pact.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, I was deciding as to whether to debate or not…

Hon. Opposition Member: You do not know where you come from?

Ms Imbwae: … and then I realised that there is no way I cannot debate the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, the budget for the Western Province is consistently low. I will elaborate my point. I heard a debate on roads, yesterday, and various issues were raised by hon. Members of Parliament in this House concerning the Mongu/Kalabo Road. I will also talk about it, but from a different perspective. I have gone to many parts of this country. For instance, I have admired the long span of the Tuta Bridge. If I had a choice to pull it, I would have done so and taken it to the Western Province. However, I would not do that because my brothers and sisters in that province need that good long bridge.

Sir, I have crossed many other bridges which I could mention, but it will just take a lot of time. I have gone to parts of this country where many hon. Members in this House may not have gone. The Mongu/Kalabo Road is just like a replay of an old song. It keeps coming up, and yet very little happens every time we talk about it.

Sir, our colleagues have been talking about the Bottom Road and the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. These roads have always been there and they are not new roads. I am grateful to those that are making an effort to find a solution to this long outstanding problem. If it was a new case, I would understand why this Government can do this to the Mongu/Kalabo Road. We do not ask those questions about other roads. Therefore, let us get this road worked on. If heaven comes down, let it be to come and answer us. It is important that this road is worked on because it is the nerve centre of the Western Province because it is the only province that is not centrally connected to the capital centre. How then are people there expected to move? From here, we are stuck as one cannot connect from Kalabo to Mongu. How do people get connected to their province? I am surprised that we are still debating this. However, I suppose that it is okay do so from a different perspective, but from our perceptive, it is like giving blood to someone who needs it on a death bed.

Mr Chairperson, I want to emphasise that this is real work and should have this Mongu/Kalabo Road worked on. It is not a new thing. We need those two districts connected. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Finance, through the Chair, do everything you can. Maybe, you will make a difference where others have failed to do so.

Ms Imbwae: There are other outstanding roads in the province and I will come to them in a moment.

Mr Chairperson, I am an old civil servant who joined politics, but I know that every province is supposed to have a certain complement and type of staff to drive the Government machinery. The staff complement in each of our local districts in the Western Province makes me want to cry. If I did, however, I would not be able to finish my debate. We have very few civil servants filling all the positions that are supposed to be filled in their respective places. This is one of the problems.

Mr Chairperson, most of the local councils are manned by people that do not even qualify for these positions. The worst part, in my opinion, is that we do not have provincial local government officers who are supposed to look at issues of district councils. I do not know where we got the officer from because the provincial local government officer − I am not debating him, but just looking at the system as a whole − is failing to advise Central Government on the requirements for each of our district councils in the Western Province. Therefore, year in and year out, we continue to be called the poorest district. It is a shame, and yet we have people that are working everywhere.

As Hon. Chitika said, Zambians are working everywhere. It is, therefore, not a question of tribe or anything else, we just want the full complement of staff to work at our district councils and prepare for the Central Government process of decentralisation. How are we going to decentralise if we have bricklayers as council secretaries? Please, tell me.

Laughter

Ms Imbwae: How will we decentralise in agriculture if we do not have farming blocks? Last year, I debated about having the normal agricultural structure in the province where you have camps and blocks. In Lukulu West, we have neither camps nor blocks so much so that if, for instance, fertilizer was sent, there would be no one to distribute it. A retired civil servant barely hanging on by the breath of his last days is the one we are trusting to distribute the fertiliser. I expect that the Government should be looking …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There is too much loud consultation.

Ms Imbwae: ….at the weakest points in the system which are making it fail to deliver.

Mr Chairperson, the Civil Service staff complement in the Western Province needs to be looked at so that each district has the full complement of staff it needs.

Mr Chairperson, moving away from that, I heard one hon. Member complain about not being invited to the PDCC meetings. If hon. Members of Parliament for the Western have ever gone to one of these meetings, I am not aware. Maybe, it is because I was left out, but I am very sure we have not met. I hope that the new hon. Minister will remember that he is co-ordinating all of us and we are all interested in the development of the province. It is a shame to continue being called the poorest province. It is a shame to have the worst schools and roads. I can talk about a lot of things, but will leave it at these few.

Mr Chairperson, when I debated the budget for the Ministry of Communications and Transport, I indicated that the hon. Minister in charge of the ministry had serious challenges. Like he gave us an ear when he was Minister of Education, I hope he will continue to listen when we say that we need to be connected, as a province, to the rest of this country. This has very serious budget implications. You need to help us so that we do not look like children that are fighting for breast milk which has finished and are just sucking on a dry breast.

Mr Chairperson, I am appealing to the hon. Minister to prioritise. He should find out which provinces have the lowest service provision. He should also find out which of our provinces are still not able to house their teachers. I know that the Western Province is one of them. Some teachers walk for seven days just to get their salaries. We were trained by this Government and we would like the best for the others who are coming behind us. I am expecting leadership and this is why I talked about having, at each district council, a complement of staff that understands what the Government wants to do. Unfortunately, most of the districts are failing to co-ordinate, resulting in the province not co-ordinating as it should. I want to give an example of the new district commissioners that have reported to their new stations without fax machines or vehicles. How will they operate? All these things are budget requirements.

Mr Chairperson, having someone look at each budget line and find deficiencies is the way to go. This way, we can begin to look at each weak province. These are the ones which we need to pull to a point where they can be like everybody else. We are all Zambians. Whoever stands in here will be asking for different things. We will continue to make requests. However, I have faith in some people and it is this faith that I want to place in the people of the Front and Back Benches. It is faith I want to put in people that are running the Government right now.

Mr Chairperson, even as they have been able to give us indicators of movements of where progress can be made, I know that with goodwill, it can be done. We have seen a movement in schools. However, we want to see a movement in health, communications and all the other sectors. Agriculture is a driver. Yesterday, I talked about co-operatives, and, I think, that for us who are far removed, the co-operative movement is the only thing that can give us the bond because, as a province, we are fragmented. For whatever reason, we fail to speak one language. It is not the Government’s problem, it is our problem. We need to get to a point where we can say come rain or sunshine, we must have roads. This is why I started my debate with the issue of the Mongu/Kalabo Road. There are many more outstanding roads.

Mr Chairperson, I am new to this Parliament. However, in 2006, when we first came here we heard reports like how can one ask for a road when they do not have vehicle. You cannot drive development with such an attitude, but these are the problems we had. We have the Lukulu/Zambezi Road which is the shortest way to connect any investor moving from Lusaka to the North-Western Province. We have the Luampa/Mulobezi and Kaoma/Kasempa roads which connect various provinces together.

Mr Chairperson, I grew up in the village and I have had the fortune to have lived longer on this earth than some people. I know that during those days when we had district commissioners that were going round using what are called ring roads. This is a road which went all the way round the west bank to Lumbalangimbu then to Lukulu West and even Zambezi West after crossing Kalabo. That road was used for monitoring development. At the moment, anyone from the west bank will tell you that karavinas are rampant because they are free to come in and go out. We do not have police posts or any other structure along this line. We have been asking the ministries, for the sake of Zambians, to do something. The western boarder is very porous. Anybody can walk in and out. Where is the security and integrity of this nation? When we ask for such things, it is not for us, it is for those people who everyday must run for their lives because they do not know when the next karavina will strike.

Mr Muteteka interjected.

Ms Imbwae: It is extremely sad that someone sitting so close here can say something like this. However, I understand because he does not know what I am talking about.

As I end my debate on the Western Province, I am urging the Government, while fully aware of the scarcity of money, to do certain basics that will help us to use the money effectively and efficiently. We should also put the right people in the right positions. We cannot continue to have audit queries that are driven by hon. Members of Parliament. Where is the PAGO? Where are the inspections of the councils? Even when that is done, no action takes place. This is not personal money, but Zambian money. Why should it go into a personal pocket? And for one to protect that, I am sorry.

Sir, I know that with the new hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, I expect a movement and Lukulu is one of the places where we are saying that we have hope. The hope is that we know that there are people on that side (right) who are committed to developing the Western Province. Since, they are connected to the Western Province in one way or another, they will understand that I am not asking for something that is impossible. I am only asking for what everybody is asking for and that we need to be connected by road, air and waterways. We need the phones to be working so that when people are talking internet, we are also there. We need to have hospitals and not a situation where everybody is giving birth in strange places. We do not have a Ms Kabwela to cover that, if we had, we would be privileged. Otherwise, we have all these problems that need to be sorted out.

Finally, please, let us look at the priorities which are the weakest. For the Western Province, the weakest …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Before I give the Floor to Mr Sikota, let me inform the House that I have the following provinces that have only one hon. Member who has spoken:

(i) Northern Province;

(ii) Eastern Province; and

(iii) Central Province.

Therefore, I am looking towards those three provinces and as I said earlier on, there are some hon. Ministers who are already indicating, but I told them to hold on until the Backbenchers have debated. I can see that we still have some provinces pending. Therefore, I may have to go to the hon. Ministers.

Can Mr Sikota take the Floor, please.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): I would much rather have spoken after Mr Kakoma had given his debate because debating after Ms Imbwae is a very hard act to follow.

Mr Chairperson, I am privileged to be given the opportunity to wind up the debate for the Southern Province, being the third person. I do note from the estimates that the Southern Province has had an increase in allocation by K4 billion. I believe that the only province which has had a larger increment is the Northern Province with K5 billion increment. Therefore, I would like to thank the Government for having given priority to the Southern province in this way. It shows that it cares for the Southern Province.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Sikota: Mr Chairperson, having said that, I would like to make a plea that the Government should look at the issue of forests and de-gazetting of forests where we have had massive deforestation in order to relieve the big demand that is there for land in the Southern Province. This province is one of the provinces which has an acute shortage of land. Therefore, better use of the land available in terms of deciding where de-gazetting of forests should be done would be helpful. Of course, as we do de-gazette, we must do it responsibly and look at the issue of reforestation because without that, we will find that we will have increasing …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I am being disturbed by the noise coming from my left. I want to listen and I urge all of you to listen. I have no problem in people consulting quietly without disturbing the person debating and some of us who want to listen.

Can the hon. Member for Livingstone.

Mr Sikota: Mr Chairperson, I was stating that as we de-gazette the forests, we must do so responsibly. At the same time as doing the de-gazetting, we must also look at reforestation so that we do not get the drought situation getting worsened in the Southern Province because this is a very big problem in this province. I am glad that in the current budget for forestation and reforestation and also for the management of forests, there is an increase of 25 per cent this year.

However, sadly, there is a very big reduction in terms of the budget for the meteorological support to agriculture. The drop is by 50 per cent. In an area where the drought has been of a major concern, it is not very prudent for the Government to have reduced the support from meteorological services to agriculture by such a large amount.

Sir, water infrastructure development has also been reduced by about 35 per cent. This is in terms of construction and rehabilitation of dams and boreholes. Again, in a drought-prone area like the Southern Province, it is sad that these amounts have been reduced. If anything, we needed more boreholes and more dam construction than what is there at the moment. I therefore, agree with Hon. Matongo on dam construction.

It is important that we look at the Fertiliser Support Programme and see whether it is serving the people of the Southern Province well. I know that the Government has said that there will be four bags now per person and so forth, but this has been done blanketly all over the country. I think that in all development models, it is agreed that you can never get one size to fit all.

Mr Muntanga: Correct!

Mr Sikota: I would, therefore, ask the Government to consider looking at areas which traditionally have been successful in agriculture and perhaps tinker with the figures there. The reason being that in those areas which have been traditionally farming areas and which are successful at farming, if you give more than what you are giving generally, they will be able to use these amounts prudently. Therefore, for areas such as the Southern, Central and Eastern provinces with proven agriculture backgrounds, perhaps, consideration should be made for them to step out of the one size which you are trying to fit all into.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the issue of the cattle disease free zones. Again, my plea to the Government is that they should consider a commodity-based trade system in terms of declaration of animal disease free zones. This can be done by looking at individual farmsteads and seeing whether particular farmsteads have put in all the necessary preventive measures such as fencing, dipping and ensuring that cars coming into that particular farm go through disinfectants so that certificates can be given to individual farms which are disease free to be able to export to the world. This will help in hastening the access of people, who are looking after their cattle well, to the outside market.

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Sikota: I am glad, Mr Chairperson, that water quality monitoring has been catered for in the budget and the allocation has been increased. Water is very important. To flog an old cliché, water is life.

Mr Chairperson, currently, Livingstone is under the Southern Water and Sewerage Company (SWSC). We, in Livingstone, pay the most, followed by Choma, and yet the services that Livingstone gets from the Southern Water and Sewerage Company are very poor. I would ask the Government to consider allowing Livingstone to break away from SWSC so that we have our own water and sewerage company which would efficiently deal with the issues of water and sewerage in Livingstone the capital city. It is not right that a capital city should have the problems of water and sewerage that it has. It does not do well for our tourism industry. If we were allowed to take charge of the water and sewerage in Livingstone, we would be able to guarantee to the people of Livingstone consistent water supply. At the moment, we are helpless as a council because we are at the mercy of SWSC. I can assure the people of Livingstone that if it were in our hands, the situation would certainly be very different.

Sir, I would like to touch on the issue of electricity. I know it was touched on by one of the people who spoke on behalf of the Southern Province, Hon. Matongo, again, about the suffering and sacrifices that the people of the Southern Province made for that electricity.

For this reason, I am asking the Government to seriously consider having the people of the Southern Province, especially in the districts where electricity is generated pay less …

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: … for the electricity. Why should people in Siavonga, Sinazongwe, Livingstone, Chikankata …

Mr Ntundu: Gwembe!

Mr Sikota: … and Gwembe pay as much for the electricity as people where it has to take thousands of kilometres to transport?

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: And yet, when you take the other situation in the energy sector on fuel, they pay more for it because it comes from much further away.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: My plea, therefore, is that there should be some kind of equity brought into these issues so that the people who generate the electricity get the benefit of that.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to also touch on the issue of the labour. The budget for inspections has gone down, but the budget for resolving disputes has gone up. In my view, this shows wrong priorities by the Government. It seems like they are more concerned with looking for a cure rather than prevention. If you have more inspections, hopefully, there will be fewer disputes on the labour market. We have seen on the farms and in tourist developments, those in the tourism industry, that the labour force is not looked after very well. In fact, it is exploited. Unless you have more money put into the inspections, the labour force will continue to be exploited. The only way to support them is to ensure that you give sufficient moneys for the inspectorates in terms of labour.

The allocation on the administration of the Public Welfare Assistant Scheme has been increased and I am an advocate of the Cash Transfer System. I believe that it should be scaled up much more than it is now. It should become universal. The pilot scheme has been going on for far too long, I am sure Hon. Muntanga will agree with me …

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Sikota: … that it has been going on for far too long and it is time that it was made universal.

Mr Muntanga: Correct!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Do not mention Hon. Muntanga’s name because …

Mr Muntanga: You are jealousy!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue.

Mr Sikota: Mr Chairperson, on the issue of the Livingstone Tourism Area Development Plan, I am somebody who is glad that the Government has agreed to this plan which we have been pushing for so long. It is something which will help to enhance the tourism potential in Livingstone. I am glad that in the Budget, the Minister of Finance and National Planning has talked about a new tax levy in tourism.

My only plea to the ministry is that, of this money which will be coming from tourism, a good portion of it should be given to the district councils for them to administer. It should not all go to the Central Government. This is something which is being generated in the districts and hence, the district councils should benefit from it to be able to foster development in those particular areas.

Lastly, Sir, because of time which is quickly running out, I will touch briefly on the issue of the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) and the initiatives that can be taken under those arrangements. My plea to the Government is that they should not be overly bureaucratic about this issue. They should not hold back the local authorities who engage with the private sector into various schemes under the PPP arrangements. We, in Livingstone, have quite a number of projects that we have lined up that we want to do using the PPP. There are markets that we want to construct, bus stations and other commercial ventures. I believe that it is also an opportunity for even things such as the Mulobezi Railway Line to be sorted out. This would help to connect the Southern Province to the Western Province and this traditionally would also help the cattle industry which is centred on the Mulobezi/Livingstone/Kazungula axis.

Sir, if I do not mention one thing, I believe that my colleagues from the Southern Province will skin me alive. The one thing that I wish to mention is the Bottom Road.

Hon. Members of Southern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Let it be constructed.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe (Chilubi): Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to thank the people of the Northern Province who have been very accommodative beyond tribal lines.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: The Northern Province is on record as having not uttered any tribal statements because it has a big number …

Mrs Phiri: Question!

Mr Sikazwe: … of tribes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I can speak as a Tabwa/Lungu or a Bemba because Bemba speaking people do not worry about who comes from which tribe. All one needs to do is understand the language in the Northern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Sir, I am not talking about the northerners who reside in Lusaka, but the northerners residing in the Northern Province. In whatever efforts the Government is making, the people of the Northern Province have been supporting it.

Mrs Phiri: Question!

Mr Sikazwe: The Government is also reciprocating.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Namugala ewakwebako!

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I stand on this platform to speak for the Northern Province.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Platform! On the Floor of the House!

Mr Sikazwe: Sorry, I with draw the word ‘platform.’

The Deputy Chairperson: You may proceed.

Mr Sikazwe: I stand to speak about the Northern Province. I can start talking about Lukulu going through Chama coming to the Congo bordering with the Central Province. I know every point there. I am not the type of a northerner who just reads on paper.

Mrs Phiri: Leakage! Nabakweba! Blue Paper!

Hon. Government Members: Hammer! Continue!

Mr Sikazwe: Sir, I cannot be told what to say in this House because I came as a Member of Parliament to represent the people of Kaputa in the Northern Province and Zambia as a whole.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Sikazwe: I will never be directed, but just advised.

Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is the biggest province in the country and I appreciate the input by the Government with regard to the hospitals. In Isoka, the Government is building hospitals and this is being done in all the districts. For this, this listening Government reminds me of an Indian saying which says “gueuma wean, ina inzwa”, it is like this Government is asking every Zambian to speak for it to listen. That is the thinking of Indian democracy and that is the democracy all of us envy because looking at the calendar, it is the oldest democracy in the world.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor who is learning from us in order to imply that “gueuma wena, wena inzwa” is gujilati when it is Chilapalapa. Is he in order to mislead the House?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Sikazwe, you may wish to amplify or clear that aspect.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the Government for the support it is giving to the Northern Province with regard to hospitals. Northern Province has twelve districts and I am sure the last phase for the hospitals is in Chilubi. Kaputa and Isoka are on record to having their hospital projects going on, but I would like to urge the Government to complete the hospitals in Isoka, Kaputa and Chilubi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, the Government is not bothered that Chilubi is represented by the Opposition, they just consider the people of the Northern Province and I would like to thank the Government for that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is the only remaining gemstone for tourism. I always say this and I will say it again, that no province will beat Northern Province in terms of the natural resources found there which are still fresh. Northern Province has natural beaches which are not found in any part of the country. The Godwana land formed by Lake Tanganyika has left us with very good natural beaches and some are on the Kasaba Bay and Nsumbu National Park.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I challenge hon. Members to tell me if there is another lake in Zambia which is 1,400metres deep apart from Lake Tanganyika in the Northern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, again I would like to tell hon. Members that it is only Lake Tanganyika in Zambia which has more than 450 species of fish which have also been exported to Lake Kariba. I would like to challenge those who say that the Government is not thinking in the right way in the promotion of tourism in the Northern Province to look back to 1978, when it was the only area with a termed elephant in this country.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mwalilya kabili.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You are disturbing him.

Mr Sikazwe: In the Northern Province, Kasaba Bay in particular is where the Norman Karl family started to rear lions. Crocodile farming in this country was started in Lake Tanganyika by Norman Karl’s son at Chimbalokale Farm. I would like the Government to find money to invest in tourism in Northern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I am thanking the Government for allocating money to rehabilitation of the Kasama and Mbala airports. Those projects have brought employment even to people from outside the province. I mentioned in this House that the time Kasaba Bay was in operation, the managers were coming from Southern, Eastern and other provinces of this country. This means that it was the genesis for tourism in Zambia because most of the managers running hotels in Zambia were trained at Kasaba Bay Lodge and then went to work elsewhere.

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, Northern Province is a blessed because it has many waterfalls, but the Government in the early days just concentrated on the Chishimba and Lunzuwa falls. Now that they have seen the consumption of power increasing, they have upgraded Lunzuwa Falls which is a plus to the Government’s effort to provide elexctricity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, the upgrading of Lunzuwa is a milestone that will reduce the dependence on the hydro-line from Kafue and Kariba.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I urge hon. Members to keep cool because I can tolerate the interruptions up to a certain point, but beyond that I cannot. Let us give chance to the hon. Member to debate.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much and I am happy that you are protecting me from those people who do not know what I am talking about …

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, even in class, those people who do not understand the lesson will ask from others. I thank you, Sir, for your protection.

Mr Chairperson, I was talking about the energy sector. We the people from the Northern Province are happy because the dependency on the hydro-line when the station at Chishimba is upgraded will be reduced and that the output of power in Luwingu and Chinsali will be stable. I urge the Government to start thinking of expanding the mini-hydro power station.

Mr Chairperson, on tourism, I would like to urge the Government to consider restocking the Nsumbu National Park. Some people on your left are thanking the Government for allowing the Africa National Parks to improve the Liuwa National Park because as I am talking now, the population of animals in that park has increased. That is what we want to be done to the Nsumbu National Park, South Luangwa National Park and Mweru–Wantipa National Park. When these parks are restocked, the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country will grow because tourism will increase.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, I now want to speak on fisheries. I have said it before right in here that when I am in Chimbamilonga and Mpulungu, I am a water bird.

Mr Muntanga: Then you are a fish.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, we live on water because we have a lot of water. We have Lake Mweru Wantipa, Chambeshi River and so on.

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, that water is the one supporting the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries. There is no other province supporting this ministry apart from Luapula. All the fish you see on your plates comes from Luapula and Northern provinces. Our brothers in Luapula are called batubulu because they are always found on water.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: These two provinces must be given priority.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let there be order in the House.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, in Northern Province …

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point …

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: … of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to refer to the people of Luapula as batubulu without telling us the meaning. That is an insult.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Sikazwe: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. However, I want to appeal to my hon. Member to be attentive when someone is debating. I said …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Just continue, please.

Mr Sikazwe: The thing is that we are fishermen because we are always found in water. It is not an insult. To rule that it is an insult is wrong. It is just that I am always found fishing on the lake.

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, before that point of order, I was taking about the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries. As I am talking the ministry has reopened the Mbesuma Ranch which the people have been complaining about. They have also accepted the request of Hon. Muntanga who was the first person to take animals from here to Mbesuma Ranch. I am happy that they relieved him of the animals and I thank the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development for reopening Mbesuma Ranch and restocking it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: I was reliably informed by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives and his deputy that that they have even built some penstocks.

Hon. Opposition interjected.

Mr Sikazwe: Yes. That is a plus. What can stop people …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! It seems we are behaving like people in a beer hall and it is really surprising. Can we not just listen to the person debating and if we have something to say let us wait for an appropriate time for us to contribute. Why do you want to be talking when somebody is debating? Just give him your ears.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Sikazwe: Thank you for your protection, Mr Chairperson. I was saying that on behalf of the people of Northern Province, I am thanking the Government for the reopening of Mbesuma Ranch which has created confidence in the future for the people there and mostly the people in Chansali and those who live in areas were people rear animals.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: The people are relived in the east of the Northern Province. They are very relieved because cattle headsmen live there.

Mr Sichilima: Hammer!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, these people from Mbala, Isoka, Chinsali and even part of Mpika where Hon. Kapeya is coming from will be getting support from the Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development because the experts will be giving them proper information from Mbesuma Ranch as they used to do previously. This is because Mbesuma Ranch was a breeding area where the restocking programme was being done as it is a Government recognised institution.

Ms Namugala: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, as I conclude I would like to state that if the Government can do and continues doing such things, what can make the people of Zambia fail to appreciate what it is doing and to put it in office again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, confidence is very difficult to be realised. You can talk, but if people do not have confidence in you, it is very difficult for them to get back to you
when you say something. The Government of the Republic of Zambia is assuring people of Northern Province that they will be flying by plane and not always driving, which is what we used to do when we were going to secondary schools. I was paying K7.40n to fly from Kasaba Bay to Kasama when some of these good hon. Members who are shouting at me never knew that plane existed.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Chairperson, the people of the Northern Province, mostly those who are in Kaputa are very optimistic about the future of the province when they see Kasaba Bay and Kasama and Mbala airports being revived and starting to contribute to the economy of Zambia.

Mr Beene: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. Oh! he has finished.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this very interesting debate on the Floor. In the first instance, I would like to thank the outgoing Minister of …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! What is the problem? Order means can you keep quiet.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Mwanza: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I would like to thank the outgoing hon. Deputy Minister for North/Western Province, Hon. Mulyata for the brief stay that he had in the North/Western Province and I am sure he was very happy to be among the Kaondes, Lambas, Lundazis, Luchazis and Luvale of the North/Western Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: In the same vein, I would also like to thank the incoming hon. Minister, one of our own from the province accepting to become Provincial Minister for North/Western Province, Hon. Kalenga.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: I know that people have been complaining that we do not have hon. Ministers who come from the same area and here is a typical example …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Hon. Mwanza! You can put that argument may be in a way that does not give the impression that you just congratulated Hon. Mulyata, when in fact you wanted to talk about something else that I would not like.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Mwanza: Thank you for the guidance, Mr Chairperson. I just wanted to congratulate the new minister. I wish him a successful stay. Your home is in the North/Western Province.

Thirdly, I would like to congratulate Hon. Lumba the area Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central for …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … making it in Solwezi and as you know Solwezi has three hon. Members of Parliament, namely; hon. Member of Parliament – Solwezi-West, the debater on the Floor, hon. Member of Parliament - Solwezi-Central, Hon. Lumba and hon. Member of Parliament-Solwezi East - Hon. Taima. The other two hon. Members of Parliament are fairly young and therefore, they are young tucks. We hope that the young tucks and the older ones like myself will ensure that we bring development to Solwezi District.

Hon. Opposition Member: Abaleya.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, I would like to state on the Floor of the House that North/Western Province is one provinces in this country which has enjoyed a lot of benefits from the ruling MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: In fact, from the outset, I will be referring to North/Western Province as a sleeping giant which has now been awakened.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: This giant was asleep for many years and it was trodden upon by successive governments until the MMD Government came into power. The MMD Government has revived the mining activities of the North/Western Province. Today, North/Western Province boasts of housing two important mining institutions in our country namely; Kansanshi and Lumwana. For the information of hon. Members of Parliament, there are also two other mining companies that are taking shape in the North/Western Province. They should be taking root in the not so distant future. The two mines include the Kalumbila Mine in Senior Chief Musele’s area. It is a profitable mine. One of the former hon. Members of Parliament is chairman of that mine. We also have the new biggest mine in the world going to be established in Mwinilunga by the Chinese Government. The Chinese investors have come into Mwinilunga to invest in this largest mine in the whole world. We have been talking here about Lumwana as the biggest mine in Africa and also the second largest in the world, but in Mwinilunga we are going to have the largest mine in the world.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, I am sure this sleeping giant is awakening. The giant can now be seen. Apart from that, I would like to talk briefly about the road network in the North/Western Province. The North/Western Province has an outstanding case of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. This road passes through or connects the North/Western Province with almost all the districts. It starts from Solwezi passing through Mufumbwe and connects to parts a few kilometres away from Kasempa. It passes through Kabompo to Zambezi and Chavuma. This is a viable project. Previously, it was a called a cinderella road, but today because of the mining activities and oil exploration activities that are taking place in that area, this road has developed a new turn.

Therefore, the commitment of the MMD Government to ensure that the road is tarred is well known and I am sure that my Government will give this road the required attention so that it is completed.

Mr Chairperson, there is also another road which is important to North-Western Province. This road comes from Kalulushi through to Kalengwa and hence, it is called the Kalulushi/Kalengwa Road. It is a road that most people do not know about. It passes through three constituencies. It passes through Hon. Taima’s constituency, Solwezi East, my constituency and that of Hon. Kabinga Pande. I would, therefore, request my Government to ensure that attention is given to this road to have it rehabilitated.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Why can you not just listen? You have problems in listening and always want to interrupt debate. I cannot believe this.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, the other road of significance is the Solwezi/Kipushi Road. The Solwezi/Kipushi Road is only 120 kilometres from Solwezi to Kipushi. In Kipushi, one can do anything he or she wants in terms of trade. Anything can be bought at the markets in Kipushi. Therefore, it is very important for my Government to modernise the border post at Kipushi. In this regard, the Government has spent colossal sums of money to ensure that the border post at Kipushi has modern facilities and once this is done, profitability of goods is going to increase as well as the market potential for the people of North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, the other important road is what is known as the T-5. This is also called the Solwezi/Mwinilunga Road. This road passes through Lumwana Mine and, for now, I must say it is in very good condition. Therefore, I must thank the hon. Minister of Works and Supply for ensuring that a lot of work is done on that road but it should be completed within the next few years so that it is an all-weather road.

Mr Chairperson, the other road that is important to note is the one from Kasempa to Mumbwa. The distance between Mumbwa and Kasempa is in excess of 350 kilometres and this road is also the shortest route from Lusaka to North-Western Province. So I invite my colleagues who hail from Kasempa, Kabompo and the Zambian travelling public to use the facilities provided on this road. However, my appeal to the Government is that it should also give some attention to ensuring that there are bridges on the Lunga and Kafue roads.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Kafue River not road.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, once that is done, the North-Western Province will be a shining example of development in the area.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, there is also another road which connects Lukulu but you need to pass through the thick forest to understand …

Mr Muntanga: It is the Black Forest.

Mr Mwanza: Black Forest, I beg your pardon. Thank you. You have to pass through the Black Forest to appreciate nature in North-Western Province. There are huge trees and tall grass. It is the intention of this Government to make sure that there is a good road from Mutanda to Chavuma through to Lukulu and this road is in very good condition. I am sure those that like adventure would find it very user friendly if they used it.
Mr Chairperson, I would like to also indicate that North-Western Province requires hydro-power. Energy is very critical in view of the developments I have talked about. I am grateful to my Government for planning to put up a hydro-power station on the Kabompo River. This will obviously brighten the prospects of oil drilling in Zambezi or North-Western Province as a whole. It will also increase the agricultural potential of the area. Further, this House may wish to know that, as I speak, today, Chavuma is one of the highest producers of rice in the country. Therefore, if we have this connectivity between Zambezi, Chavuma, Solwezi and the rest of the province, that rice will be transported easily to all parts of Zambia for consumption.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of health, I would like to state that North-Western Province is very grateful to the Government for Lumwana Hospital, which is about to be completed. When I visited it last month, I found that work was at an advanced stage. We have also made progress on the Mukinge Nursing School which is being expanded. I also visited the Solwezi School of Nursing which is looking very well on the road to Kansanshi. Ikelengi Hospital has been opened, thanks to Hon. Chituwo when he was hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Chairperson, as for education, there is construction of a girls’ technical school in Solwezi East Constituency. This is an important development in our area. Then there is also construction of agricultural facilities taking place. Like I said, anything grows in North-Western Province. This is because the soils, rivers, rainfall and weather are all good in the area. Therefore, I would expect hon. Members of Parliament who are here, and those that are listening to make an effort of investing in North-Western Province in terms of agriculture.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to talk about the establishment of a new district in Mwembeshi. This is very important because just as we have Kitwe, Chingola and Kitwe districts, we should also have Lumwana District in Mwembeshi. Mwembeshi has been selected as a suitable place where we can house this district. Therefore, my appeal to the Government is to hasten the implementation of the recommendation of the report that Mwembeshi should have a new district as quickly as possible because, then, we are going to ensure that the eighth district is established in the North-Western Province.

With regard to what is happening in North-Western Province generally, we are very grateful to the hon. Minister of Lands for lifting the ban that was slapped on Solwezi Municipal Council not to offer land. During the period we were campaigning for the recent by-elections, we sat down together and resolved this matter. This is critically important for Lumwana because Lumwana is going to be a new area of development. It is going to be a new focal point for development. So we should forget about armchair critics that are talking ill about North-Western Province.

Major Chizhyuka: Paper tigers.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: North-Western Province is destined to be the new copper belt of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwanza: We are tired of the Copperbelt Province being the industrial hub of Zambia. I have grown up on the Copperbelt and know it very well but, now, we have, for the first time, the development of over 2,000 new houses in North-Western Province. This is a development that has never been seen in this country in the last forty-five years. I think that it is a major achievement on the part of this Government.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: So far a hon. Member for Central Province has spoken and another from Eastern Province. I think we continue with the Central Province.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Chairman I would like to support the budget for Central Province. In doing so, I would like to make a few comments, but before I do that I would like to thank the hon. Deputy Minister and the Permanent Secretary for Central Province who have been working very hard over the past few years.

Mr Chairman, I will be very brief in supporting the budget in the sense that this working Government has done well in Central Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairman, Central Province is the food basket for Zambia. The main business there is agriculture and, therefore, this Government should put in much emphasis on agriculture. However, because of the good policies put in place by this Government, we have been having a bumper harvest in Central Province.

Mr Chairman, on roads …

Mr Muntanga: Moreover, roads!

Laughter

Mr Chisanga: … I am pleased to mention to this august House that we received K2 billion and the graders which we got are busy working in the districts and all the feeder roads in Central Province have been worked on.

Mr Chairman, on health, equally, through this Government, we received K1 billion which went towards improving health facilities; K5 billion which was used to construct thirteen new health posts; and K4.9 billion to complete the district hospitals in Kapiri Mposhi and Mumbwa.

Mr Chairman, when we say that this is a working Government, we really mean it.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: On education, we received K1 billion to construct new classroom blocks in Mumbwa, Mkushi and Serenje districts. Also on infrastructure, we got K853 million which was used by the province and all the district education officers’ houses in the province have been rehabilitated.

Mr Chairman, I am also pleased to mention to this House that on transport, we received K365 million to purchase utility vehicles in Mumbwa and Mkushi districts.

As regards land resettlement, K500 million was released to Katikulula and Kampumba resettlement schemes. On ground water, this Government has done tremendously well in Central Province as K480 million has been set aside for boreholes while, in agriculture, and because of the good policies put in place by this Government, Central Province was able to produce 400,000 metric tonnes of maize which is equivalent to 21 per cent, and 97,000 metric tonnes of wheat. This means that 49 per cent of wheat was produced in the province.

Sir, I am glad to mention to this House that this Government has also done tremendously well in Nansanga Farming Block.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairman, very soon, Nansanga Farming Block will be like Mkushi Farming Block. In Mkushi, one farmer can feed Central Province. Equally, Nansanga Farming Block will be the next food basket for Central Province.

Mr Chairman, this working Government has constructed all the roads in Nansanga Farming Block and connected power. This working Government has also constructed dams in Nansanga Farming Block.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairman, I promised to be brief because in Central Province, all is well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: We have a powerful hon. Cabinet Minister, the Deputy Minister and the Permanent Secretary.

Sir, I thank you..

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Chairman, the Eastern Province is a province whose economy is dependent on agriculture and, therefore, it is absolutely important for us to have good feeder roads because with good feeder roads, we will be in a position to transport our produce to the main markets that are scattered throughout the province.

However, the Government has now raised hope in us that with the importation or purchase of road construction equipment from China, we hope that the Government will pay a lot of attention to the construction of feeder roads. We needed them yesterday, we need them today and we will need them tomorrow.

For the hon. Deputy Minister in charge of the Eastern Province, and through the Chairman, my advice is that you should ensure that this road construction equipment is made available to every district in the province. Those that already have the benefit of these pieces of equipment should be gracious enough to release them to other districts. We also want to work on our feeder roads.

Apart from feeder roads, we, in Eastern Province, pay special attention to the road network such as the roads linking one district to the other. I will start by addressing the Chipata/Lundazi Road. The Government entered into a contract with Reubex Construction for the resurfacing of 100 kilometres of this road. To-date, only eighty-four kilometres has been resurfaced and Reubex Construction have since pulled out, contending that they have performed part of their bargain.

Was this company contracted to construct 84 or 100 kilometres of this road? Of course, we are grateful for what has been done so far, but we are equally anxious to know what the Government is going to do with regard to the remainder of the road. This portion of the road is hell run on earth and I hope the Government will do something about it.

Interruptions

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: There is only one government even if you do not like it and it is a matter you must learn to live with. Yours is in future. It may happen or it may not. Only God knows.

Hon. Opposition Member: Question.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! You are right.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: In this direction, therefore, we are looking forward to the construction of the road between Lundazi and Chief...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: ... in Chama District. This road is in a deplorable condition and, therefore, we will not stop appealling to the Government to do something about it.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the Chadiza/Chipata Road. This road was forgotten, maybe, twenty years ago and only lip service is being given about it. I hope the ministry will do something about this road. As regards the road leading to the Mwami Hospital Turn-Off, nothing has been done about it. My appeal to the Government is fro it to do something about this road.

The people of the Eastern Province have supported every government since independence. The First President of this country, Dr D. K. Kaunda, was fully supported by the people of the Eastern Province. After that, Dr Chiluba took the helm and was equally supported. Then, we had the late President, Mr L. P. Mwanawasa, SC., who was also fully supported. Now, when it is an easterner at the helm, hell has broken loose. There is something wrong somewhere, but that is beside the point.

With regard to the Great East Road, I appeal to the Government to also attend to this road. I know that piece meal patching of potholes has been done. However, the road between Nyimba and Petauke must be resurfaced completely. Yes, the Government is trying to do something about the road to Mfuwe, but perceptions out there are that the contractor who has been given the contract is not known for doing a good job. I hope this time around, the contractor will do a good job because some perceptions may actually be real.

Mr Malama: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Well, I am talking about the road network.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about the Lundazi/Chama Road. This road needs attention. I know there is a Chinese contractor who was awarded the contract, but that road, believe you me, is very bad. I do not know whether the Government road inspectors have examined it to see whether a good job was done. I also do not know whether the contractor has been paid and if he has been paid, he has been paid for a bad job done.

Mr Chairperson, hon. Members from the Southern Province always remind the Government and, rightly so, on the need to work on the Bottom Road. It is my duty here now to remind the Government that we need the “top road.”

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: When you have a bottom road, you must also have a top road and this is the road linking Lundazi to Isoka.

Mr Sichamba: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: If that road is worked on, I can assure you, the Eastern Province will be opened to trade with Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi. This road is a necessity and we will continue reminding this Government to work on both the Bottom and Top roads.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may continue.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC: Yes, I have talked about roads, but I started my contribution by reminding ourselves that the Eastern Province is predominantly an agricultural province. As a result of this, I am cognizant of the fact that this Government encourages irrigation farming. The people in the Eastern Province have not forgotten about the dams constructed by the colonial government virtually in every district in the province, but 95 per cent of these dams were washed away as far as back as 1998. We want now the Government to rehabilitate these dams. I have looked at the money that has been allocated for the rehabilitation of dams, but I think it is not enough because money will be used only on four dams. The Government has undertaken on the Floor of the House, for example, to work on three dams in my constituency. I am happy and grateful to inform the House that the Ministry of Energy and Water Development has already moved people to those three dams in Chasefu Constituency. However, there are other dams that have not been worked on. We have the Lundazi Dam in Lundazi Constituency. This dam is heavily silted and it is about time that something was done about it. The Government promised, as far back as two years ago, that something would be done, but nothing, so far, has been done. I hope that this time around the Government, through the ministry responsible, will send experts to look at Lundazi Dam.

Sir, the Government’s goal is to encourage irrigation so that more crops are grown, but more money has to be allocated for the construction of new dams as well as rehabilitation of the old ones. After this has been done, there will be need to restock these dams with fish. I am happy, at least, to report to the House that Membe Dam in Chasefu Constituency was rehabilitated, last year, and that the fish restocking took place, but this cannot be said of many other dams.

Sir, on the issue of boreholes, the Lundazi District was given more than seventy boreholes, but of these boreholes, I am advised and verily believe that the information is correct, forty-eight went to one constituency with nine going to Chasefu and eleven to Lundazi. I appeal to the hon. Minister to make sure that there is equitable distribution, in future, of boreholes because all of us yearn for development.

Sir, as regards electrification, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) connected the Lundazi and Lumezi constituencies to the Malawian Grid. This electricity grid passes through Lundazi and Chasefu constituencies at Lusunda. I appeal ...

Hon. PF Member interjected.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: My traditional cousin is claiming credit for that, but I am not subtracting from it, but the Government gets credit at the end of the day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: The point I am trying to make is that electricity from Malawi came into Zambia through Chasefu Constituency, but unfortunately for unexplained reasons, it has not been extended into the interior of Chasefu Constituency. Why has it not been done? The people of Chasefu Constituency need electricity just like other people from other parts of the country do. I hope with the allocation of enough money to the REA, this will be realised.

Sir, another issue I want to talk about is air transport. We have the Mfuwe International Airport in the Eastern Province which needs rehabilitation...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 11815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in
the Chair]

Mr C. K B. Banda, SC.: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was saying that we are happy that Chipata Airstrip has been rehabilitated, but above that, I note with happiness that …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There are too many people talking.

Mr C. K B. Banda, SC.: ... some money has been allocated for the renovations of our airstrip at Nyangwe in Lundazi Constituency. This is most welcome because I remember that two and a half years ago, the late President Mwanawasa informed this august House that this airstrip had been worked on when on the ground there was virtually nothing to talk about. Therefore, I am extremely delighted that, this time around, money has been allocated for this project on the Vote for the Eastern Province.

Mr Chairperson, this Government is embracing diversification of the economy. In this regard, the Government has talked about opening the Northern Circuit, but my appeal is that there is also the North-Eastern Circuit which needs the Government’s attention.

Sir, those of us, who know the map of Zambia, will agree that there is what is called the Nyika Plateau. If you go to the Malawian side of this plateau, it is a marvel to watch. There is everything that you can think about, but when you look at the Zambian side, one wonders whether you are in a country that cares or not.

Interruption

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Through you, Sir, I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Tourism Environment and Natural Resources to ensure that the Government pays attention to the Nyika Plateau by investing some money in it because it will not be losing out on anything.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Actually, the Government would be opening up one or two tourist spots that will be beneficial to the country.

Sir, with regard to the issue of clinics and health posts, yes, last year, Chasefu constituency was a recipient of a health post at a place called Hoya. This health post was opened in October, but without solar power and water. Although in the work plan for this year we were expecting a borehole to be sunk at Hoya in October, today, is 2nd December, 2009, and nothing has been done. I hope in 2010, something will be done because it makes no sense to open a clinic or a health post without providing it with water.

Mr Chairperson, generally, the Eastern Province is in need of three more technical secondary schools.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Your time has lapsed. Ms Limata, it is your turn to debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Quality!

Mr Limata (Luampa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add some few words on the Vote for the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, I am happy, here, to stand on behalf of you …

Laughter

Ms Limata: … to say something …

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Ms Limata: … on behalf of this august House.

Laughter

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, sorry to mention you.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Continue. Do not be apologetic.

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, let me begin by talking about schools in the Western Province. The majority of hon. Members in this House know very well that education started in the Western Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, we even had the Holy Cross Girls High School. However, there no longer is a girls’ school in the Western Province because even the one that existed is, today, a co-education school.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Sir, people of the Western Province are bitter about this Government.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Mwiimbu’s, “hear, hear” is not in good faith.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you give the hon. Member time to debate.

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, it is better to educate a girl than a boy. The Government will do a very good job if it did that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: I appeal, through you, Mr Chairperson, for this Government that calls itself a listening Government to do something for the girls in the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, let me come to Luampa Constituency. You will recall that I mentioned this subject last time. We, the people of the Western Province, were promised money for Luampa High School which came to K378 million. To date, the money is not in the hands of the people of Luampa. I, therefore, urge this Government to look into this issue seriously because Luampa High School is part and parcel of this country. Therefore, its pupils need to be accorded a good learning environment such as conducive classrooms and the teachers there should also be accommodated in beautiful houses.

Mr Chairperson, under the budgetary allocation to Luampa Constituency there was an allocation intended for Chacha, Mulumbwa and Namasheshe, but since 2006, the money has not been released. Therefore, where is the money? Everybody in this House went to school and that is why we are here. When you deny those young girls in the Western Province an opportunity to go to schools, then you are being unfair to them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Sir, in the Western Province, we have a place called Mayukwayukwa, which is in Mangango Constituency. The Construction of buildings, in this place, was started, but, to date, the buildings have not been completed. I am appealing to this so-called listening Government to listen to us. We have a place called Nakanya in Nalikwanda Constituency, where Hon. Lungwangwa comes from. I am sure he knows about what I am talking about.

Mr Chairperson, we are proud to have an hon. Minister of Education who is a lady. I wish she was here to listen to what I am saying on girl child education.

Mr Chairperson, we have got other schools in Lukulu East and West. My sister, Hon. Imbwae, talked about her constituency. When she is in this House, she listens even to the people from the other side.

Hon. Government Member: She has crossed.

Ms Limata: She cannot do that.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, I am appealing to this Government to open its ears and listen to the people of the Western Province. I want to remind the Government that we, the people in the Western Province, are very good people, but when we change our character, we are like hyenas.

Laughter

Ms Limata: At one point, they will cry.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is that point of order for?

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for protecting me after all …

The Deputy Chairperson: No, I have not yet said what I want to say, madam. When one of the hon. Members on my right comes to the Floor to debate and say that the people of the Western Province are like hyenas, it will be an issue. Therefore, remove the word ‘hyenas’ and say something else.

You may continue.

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, we are good hyenas.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I was just telling you to expurgate the word ‘hyenas’. I do not want to hear about “good hyenas” either.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you say something civil?

Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, the people of Western Province are so good and humble.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: However, we can change for the worst, and nobody can …

The Deputy Chairperson: That is better.

Ms Limata: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about the Ministry of Health. There is a hospital in Shangombo whose construction started a long time ago.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, the people of Shangombo are crying day and night. They want the hospital to be completed.

Sir, the Western Province is very big.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Limata: There are quite a number of hospitals, but we do not have qualified doctors and trained staff. We need more trained staff to be deployed to the Western Province so that our people can be part and parcel of this Government. Shangombo is very far from here. When you deny them what they want, at the end of the day, they will change.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, my colleagues have already talked about roads. They talked about the Machile/Luampa Road, and therefore, I will not talk about it. Money was provided for this road, but we do not know where the money has gone.

Mr Chairperson, I have only been in this House for three years. Ever since then, people have been talking the Kalabo/Mongu Road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: To date, however, nothing has been done. Our colleagues are not listening to the people of the Western Province. The people of the Western Province are very humble. When you tell us something, we shall not forget about it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: If this promise is not false, we need the road to be constructed before December 2010.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about agriculture. I come from a rural constituency where we grow cassava. It is a constituency where timber comes from. I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Lands and his Deputy to listen to the people of Luampa and Machile where timber comes from.

Mr Chairperson, I do not want to repeat what my colleagues said about agriculture. However, the Western Province is where you can find very good rice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: It is very tasty. We need the Government to support the people of the Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: We need the Government to find a market where my people can sell cassava and cassava cuttings …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: … because you are a listening Government.

Mr Chairperson, we have a lot problems in Mongu. Immediately after the Itezhi-Tezhi Turn Off, there are a lot of potholes. We want the Government and hon. Ministers to do something. If I were a Minister, instead of flying, I would go by road and see how people are suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, let me say that my colleague is looking at me.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata: Sir, we share the same boundary with the National Chairman for MMD, Mr Mabenga. Therefore, for him to tour his constituency, he has to go through difficulties because the road is very bad.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Limata: Mr Chairperson, the road from Machile to Luampa is the shortest route. Even people travelling to Botswana, Zimbambwe or Namibia use that road because that is the shortest route. Therefore, just for the people of the Western Province to hear matangu every time about the roads is not good. To tell you the truth, the people of the Western Province are upset.

The Deputy Chairperson: Could the hon. Member tell us what the meaning of matangu is?

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson matangu means fake stories.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Limata: You can come and learn from me so that you can know.

Ho. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, most of the things that I wanted to say have already been highlighted by my other colleagues. Let me end by thanking all my hon. colleagues who have contributed on this Vote. I would also want to welcome my young boy …

Laughter

Ms Limata: … who has come to join us from Solwezi so that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Who is your young boy now? Use proper language.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, he is my young hon. Member of Parliament because he is not of my age.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Please, do not begin teaching me things which I do not like.

Laughter

Ms Limata: Sir, I mean the hon. Member from Solwezi.

The Deputy Chairperson: Yes, that is what you should say.

Ms Limata: Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I would like to say thank you very much.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Lusaka Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I stand here as a very sad person because three years now from the time I was still a novice in this Parliament, I stood on the Floor of this House and spoke about the issues that were affecting the Lusaka Province in general and Mandevu Constituency in particular.

Sir, the state of roads in Lusaka is deplorable. Yesterday, we had a very heavy downpour. I am sure everybody will agree with that even the Independence Avenue, the road which leads to State House was impassable because it was flooded. Surely, we have a Government-in-sitting. Each time we talk about these roads, people say that the council is there. Please, for heaven’s sake, can the council manage work on all the roads in Lusaka when there is a Government-in-sitting?

Sir, yesterday’s rains saw a lot of vehicle going into ditches. There was congestion because people could not see where they were going. Yet, people stand on the Floor of this House and say that we have a Government in place.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Kapata: Not until you work on those roads.

Sir, in Madenvu Constituency, there are the Chazanga/Chipata/Kabanana and Zambezi roads. There is also an industrial park that is along Zambezi Road.

How are we going to operate in that industrial park? That industrial park will employ more than 2,000 Zambians. What is the Government doing about that?

Mr Chairperson, allow me to talk about how Lusaka is located in general. When you are approach Lusaka from the north or south by road, the first thing that meets your eyes is a shanty compound. Compounds that are not well organised except for those on the Great East Road. When you are coming from the Southern Province what do you meet? When you are coming from the Copperbelt what type of compounds do you see?

Mr Malama: Msisi Compound!

Ms Kapata: Sir, it is high time that the Government sat down together with the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province and worked out something, if we are to make Lusaka a capital city that we need it to be. He must work hand-in-hand with his colleagues in the Ministry of Lands to make sure that these compounds are upgraded. Some compounds must be upgraded, especially those in Mandevu, which are Garden, Chaisa, Marapodi, Chipata, Chazanga and Ng’ombe. Can something be done to upgrade these compounds so that, at least, our people can lead decent lives?

Sir, I wish to inform the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province that since I came into Parliament, I inherited some problems. There are three compounds which need legalisation. I have done my part as a Member of Parliament by writing letters to the necessary authorities. These are Mazyopa, the remaining part of Mazyopa, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The people at the back of the person debating …

Ms Kapata: … Garden Site III and a place called Gabon. People have built their houses there and it is we, the leaders, who have encouraged people to have their own homes. Some of them work for the Government and have built their own homes, but do not have papers. I am urging the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province to assist us in ensuring that these three compounds are legalised and people get their papers.

Mr Chairperson, I also would like to talk about health, particularly the clinics in Mandevu. As I debated earlier on the Vote of the Ministry of Health, I stated that Mandevu is one of the biggest constituencies in Zambia. It is big not by size, but by population. I have two big clinics namely; Ng’ombe Health Centre and Chipata Health Centre where there are no CD4 Count Machines. Therefore, I am appealing to the hon. Minister to ensure that these clinics are given the CD4 Count machines because they cater for many people.

Sir, when it comes to National Registration Card (NRC) issuance, Lusaka in general, is getting a raw deal. Our people spend close to one month without getting their NRCs at the NRC offices. It is surprising that people are asked to produce birth certificates or Under-Five Cards. I do not know when this came into effect. Surely, sixteen years down the line can a mother keep an Under-Five Card when the main issue in our homes is to look for food? Can one really keep an Under-Five Card? We need to change the system. In the olden days, I recall very well when I was getting my NRC, I had to use my father’s NRC. My father’s NRC was enough to accord me an NRC and not the conditions that you have set now. Our people are disfranchised and we need the system to change. The people who are issuing NRCs should issue them at a fast rate.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to also talk about litter in Lusaka. As a council, we have Classified Daily Employees (CDEs) …

Mr Mushili: On a point of order, Sir.

Ms Kapata: … whom we have put in place. We also have a quarterly K4 million that is given to every ward …

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mushili: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor. Is the hon. Member in order to only mention the period it takes for citizens to get National Registration Cards on the Copperbelt and in Lusaka? They say the exercise takes only one month when, in fact, it takes more than one month. Is she in order to forget to mention that this problem is everywhere in the nation?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I let you finish raising that point of order, but I would like to inform the hon. Members that this will be the last point of order of that nature to be allowed from now onwards. I will not allow points of order on inclusions to the debate.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I was just talking about the issue of litter in Lusaka and that we need to call the stakeholders on the issue of garbage collection or plastic generation. We have a lot of litter around Lusaka and as a council, we have classified daily employees in place and we quarterly give K4 million to every ward to see to it that garbage is collected, but that is not enough because we need political will. We need to bring a Motion to Parliament which will ensure that no plastic items are generated or made in this country.

Mr Chairperson, upon arrival in Rwanda, if you have a plastic item in your hand, they will take it away from you because they do not allow plastic items anywhere in the country. In that area, we really need political will.

Mr Chairperson, coming back to the hon. Minister, the reason I was saying that I am very sad is that I have written letters and I have gone from one office to the other concerning the roads. The Lusaka Province equipment has been deployed into the rural parts of Lusaka from January. Every time we went there, we did not find the equipment, but now that the rains are with us, we are being told that the equipment is available when there is not much we can do about it. As hon. Members in Lusaka urban, we feel that we are getting a raw deal from the Lusaka Province budget. We support it year in, year out, but we do not get anything out of it but our colleagues outside Lusaka are the ones who benefit.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I would be failing in my duties if I did not talk about education in my constituency. I am privileged as an hon. Member that two high schools were given to me, but unfortunately for one of them, the school place was small and the hon. Minister promised that as soon as we find land, they will construct the school.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, we have a problem …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I would like to advise the hon. Members on my right that you make everybody on my right look like they interrupt when they are only a few of you, in fact, maybe two or three who make unnecessary noise all the time. It is not good because you are not setting good standards.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I would like the hon. Minister to assist me because …

I have the displaced people of Mazyopa and each time I get to a point where I feel I have sorted out the issue of the people of Mazyopa, it is either an hon. Minister is moved or something else happens. Right now, we have land that we have demarcated into forty plots which is supposed to give to the people of Mazyopa in Foxdale. When we were just about to move them somebody put a court injunction against that land, and yet that land has been vacant for fifteen years. That particular person put a court injunction against the people that have been living without proper shelter in the rainy season for the past three years.

Therefore, I am calling upon the hon. Minister through his powers to come and assist me because I have done everything that I can as an hon. Member of Parliament, but nothing is coming forth. This time around, I would like to hand over officially the people of Mazyopa to the hon. Deputy Minister of Lusaka Province together with his colleague the hon. Minister of Lands so that together they can sit down and work as a Government and see to it that these people are provided with the right land. Right now, they are still living in the tents and their tents are torn. I do not even know where I am going to find the tents to give them to reinforce the ones they have so that they do not get soaked with rains everyday. The hon. Minister is listening, I am sure he is a listening hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, in my conclusion, I would like to take this opportunity to thank and congratulate Hon. Lumba, Member of Parliament from Solwezi …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: … for making PF/UPND, I am not mentioning pact, but instead alliance, proud.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Muteteka): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this rare opportunity to add my voice to support the budget for 2010. In adding my voice, I want to talk about the expenditure and implementation of projects, monitoring and evaluation including service delivery to our people in Central Province and beyond.

Mr Chairperson, in supporting this budget, let me commend the Government, Provincial Minister, Permanent Secretary and civil servants who are working hard by ensuring that the programmes which were planed for in the previous and coming budget are executed. I am talking as a very satisfied hon. Member of Parliament from Central Province because I personally have seen what has happened and where the money from the Government has gone and therefore, the people of Central Province are saying thank you to the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: There is nothing that we have changed from the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), so we are moving together with the programmes which were planned for.

Mr Chairperson, if you go to Central Province today, I am sure you will agree with all those that have passed through the province that the city roads have changed We have perfect city roads within Central Province, in particular in Kabwe Town. That is the work of this Government. Those who passed through Central Province three years ago, I am sure they can see the difference. Why should we keep quiet when we are seeing the fruits of this Government?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Wisdom.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, in addition to what Hon. Chisanga spoke about, we appreciate the equipment which this Government procured to ensure that the feeder roads are attended to in the Central Province. As I am speaking right now, those who have children at Chipembi Secondary School and have driven there should have seen the difference. As for those who have not gone there, their children should have reported to their dad and mum that the road from Great North Road to Chipembi Secondary School and beyond had been graded. So, the equipment is doing a lot. As I am speaking it is in Katuba. It came from Kembe and will be going to Chisamba later on. The programme which the Permanent Secretary and his team have put in place is quite implementable and we are not complaining.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about the part of the Great North Road found in the Chibombo Boma area. All of you who have attended Kulamba Kuwalo Ceremony know that when you branch off from the tarmac of Great North Road, you always get into a dust road.

Today, this road has been tarred up to the Boma. Those are the works we are talking about and when we praise our Government, we are able to see and point at the things we are doing.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I commend the Permanent Secretary for Central Province and his team for ensuring that all the programmes were executed and we are seeing the fruits of their work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Emulate. Do not just say, “Hear, hear!”

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I want to use Chisamba and other constituencies as a measuring tool in how far we have gone as Central Province in ensuring that all the projects which were funded have been implemented to the satisfaction of the people in Central Province.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: When we come to education, K2 billion has been spent on Chisamba High School and as I am speaking, it is at roof level. This is a school which is going to enroll 800 pupils of both sexes. It is a school we never thought would be in Chisamba Constituency but it is there right now as I am speaking.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Further, we have rehabilitated a number of schools and are even distributing desks right now. These are the things we have done and the people are able to see them in rural areas like Chisamba, Mumbwa and Kapiri-Mposhi.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Therefore, I have every reason to stand up and proudly say that my Government is working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Those who cannot see - the good for nothing people - should wait for the time when we will show them all our works.

Interruptions

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I want to mention that in the three years that I have been a hon. Member of Parliament, my Government and its co-operating partners have built six health centres. Four are operational and two are to be completed soon. From what I saw last Sunday when I visited one, it is almost complete. These are clinics in Chisamba, namely: Momboshi, Mwapula, Malombe, Lifwambula and Kanakantapa. These are the clinics which, if you go there right now, the infrastructure will tell for itself. These are things which were not there three years ago. However, with the support of the Government and Central Province Administration, my constituency has managed to put up six health centres.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: What more do we need? All that the Opposition can do is work with the Government because we are here to raise funds so as to take development to our people. They should not just be here to try and make a name but as a conduit or catalyst for the Government to take development to their areas. It is not about politicking every day and night.

Ms Lundwe: Kakoma have you heard?
Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, as regards roads, we had a problem on the Momboshi Bridge. My Government spent K5.2 billion on its rehabilitation and it is now a thing of the past. Hon. Muntanga will bear me witness because he is using it now and it is cheaper for him to get to his farm. That is the work of the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Where is Muntanga?

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about rural electrification. As I am speaking, two schools in typical rural areas like Mupelekese have electricity. The Government has spent K1.2 billion on this and we have taken generators there and done the connections to the schools. These are things in which my Government has served the people of Chisamba, Chibombo and the whole of Central Province. It is possible do to this throughout the country except we are not speaking the correct language at the right time.

Interruptions

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, as for urban Central Province, through the support of Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) and the effort of the Permanent Secretary, almost K1 billion has been spent on play parks to ensure that our children have access to recreation facilities and time to relax. This is infrastructure which has been put in Central Province to improve the lives of the people of Central Province in townships with the support of ZCCM-IH and other co-operating partners.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, when we talk of animal restocking, those who watched television yesterday saw the Permanent Secretary for Central Province showing the nation how we are implementing these programmes. There were animals in a truck being distributed to all the people in Central Province. Even the people in Chisamba received these animals. So what is the problem?

The programmes are being implemented for the benefit of the people in this country and these programmes are not going to happen in the Central Province in Chisamba or Chibombo, but throughout the country. Follow the programmes according to the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and the budget to get what you are looking for for the people of your area. It is not just about you.

Mr Chairperson, I think, sometimes, I get frustrated because of some people.

Laughter

Mr Muteteka: Someone is just from seeing infrastructure …

The Deputy Chairman: Order! You are saying some of the people and some hon. Members are saying, “it is okay,” and yet they do not know what you want to say.

Hon. Members, hold on and let him say what he wants to say.

You may continue, please.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, let me emphasise that it does not help and it will not do when you know the truth on the ground. You have seen development coming to your area, but when you come here you twist your language. Are you hypocrite? Let us be fair because we are here to deliver service to the people.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of infrastructure, if you go to Chibombo District, today, you will find that we have constructed a complex where the District Administrator and his staff are accommodated. They have just moved into that beautiful building. A lot of money has been spent on that project which was funded by the Government and that is the development we are talking about. This project was worked on within a very short period of time.

Mr Mwamba: What about the other areas?

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I know that there are other areas which are still outstanding, but looking at the rate at which we are moving, we are going to catch up and we will ensure that all the demands of the people are met head on.

Mr Chairperson, there is a lot of development taking place in this country. All we have to do is support the Government of the day and ensure that we provide relief to the people according to their demands from their specific areas.

Mr Chairperson, let me say something with regard to the ministry from where I have been transferred with emphasis on service delivery to the people of the Central Province. Under the Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme, my ministry has sunk 5,000 boreholes district by district. The ministry has also continued to repair the damaged ones and replacing others with the new ones. This is a real story which is happening in the Central Province.

Mr Chairperson, we are serious and remain committed, as a Government and Ministry of Local Government and Housing, to ensure that we answer to the demands of the people in terms of providing clean water.

Mr Chairperson, we have Lukanga Water Company in the Central Province, which has got two major projects running at the moment. One is in Chisamba while the other one is in Nampundwe. These projects are working very well and they provide water to the people of the Central Province.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry further has released colossal sums of money to construct ten low cost houses in Chibombo District and have almost reached completion point. This construction is being supported by the funds from the World Bank as this is a deliberate project to see to it that we provide shelter to our low income citizens in this country. In Chibombo District, where the aim of this project is to construct ten houses, the project is nearing completion and this should be so in the shortest possible time.

Mr Chairperson, this year, the ministry has spent a colossal amount of money to reach out to the people. In terms of recurrent grants in 2009, the ministry has spent K2.3 billion. It has also spent K606,286,296.00 for restructuring grants. As regards grants in lieu of rates, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing K8,400,000.00 and the total came to K12 billion. This money has been disbursed to the Central Province districts to ensure that services are delivered to the people there.

Mr Chairperson, I want to end by thanking the Civil Service in the Central Province and beyond for its dedication to deliver services to this country.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order, Hon. Kapata, means keep quiet.

(Debate adjourned)
_____________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

___________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

____________

The House adjourned at 1916 hours on Wednesday, 2nd December, 2009 until 1430 hours on Thursday, 3rd December, 2009.

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