Debates- Wednesday, 5th August, 2009

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Wednesday, 5th August, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to present a Ministerial Statement in response to your directive to my ministry on 21st July, 2009. The directive followed a Point of Order raised by the hon. Member for Nkana Constituency, Mr Musenge Mwenya, on 21st July, 2009.

Mr Speaker, the Point of Order was raised as a result of an article which appeared in the Post Newspaper of 20th July, 2009 regarding the alleged liability of the Government to Enya Holdings BV amounting to US$50 million in respect of Luanshya Copper Mines Plc (LCM). The Post Newspaper which carried the article was laid on the Table of this House.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that on 17th November, 2008, the major shareholders of LCM, namely, Enya Holdings BV decided on their own to pull out of the mine citing low metal prices. This was after they had incurred debts amounting to US$120 million, according to their official records. On this same day, they decided to put the mine on care and maintenance. The decision was effected on 23rd January, 2009.

Mr Speaker, the Government was unhappy about this development as it meant that the social-economic life of the people of Luanshya would be negatively affected. As a mitigation measure, your responsible Government decided to find another strategic equity partner to resume the operations of the mine.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that after the selection of China’s Non-ferrous Metals Co-operation (NFC) as the successful bidder by the Government technical team, the matter was referred to Cabinet for consideration and approval. The Government technical team, appointed by the Secretary to the Cabinet participated in the negotiations between NFC and Enya Holdings BV. The negotiations were conducted under the Chairmanship of the Secretary to the Treasury who was deputised by the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

The negotiating team comprised of technocrats from the various Government institutions namely;

(a) the Ministry of Finance and National Planning;

(b) the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development;

(c) the Ministry of Justice;

(d) the Ministry of Labour and Social Security;

(e) the Zambia Development Agency;

(f) the Zambia Revenue Authority; and

(g) ZCCM – Investment Holdings Plc.

Mr Speaker, the House should note that neither the hon. Ministers of Mines and Minerals Development nor Finance and National Planning were members of the negotiating team. However, they are members of the Committee of Ministers on mining whose full composition is as follows:

(a) Minister of Finance and National Planning – Chairperson;

(b) Minister of Mines and Minerals Development;

(c) Minister of Energy and Water Development;

(d) Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives;

(e) Minster of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources;

(f) Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry;

(g) Minister of Labour and Social Security; and

(h) Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Speaker, the House may further wish to know that from inception, the sale of 85 per cent shares held by Enya Holdings BV was to be without any liabilities to the buyer.

Sir, in order to achieve this objective, creditors of LCM convened a meeting on 6th April, 2009 at which 85 per cent voted in favour of the scheme of arrangements. The creditors agreed that they would be paid from proceeds of the sale of shares. This meant that the only source of funds to pay creditors would be from the proceeds of the sale.

Mr Speaker, I now wish to inform the House that as of 28th July, 2009, out of the total of forty-five creditors, thirty-eight have since been paid from the Escrow Account at the average rate of 48 per cent of their respective claims. I further wish to inform the House that only seven creditors remain to be settled. These creditors are demanding to be paid more than 48 per cent of their claims.

Sir, at no point did the Government undertake to settle any outstanding liabilities of LCM because it did not contract any debt with the company. In other words, the Government will not settle any liabilities which accrued during the time when LCM was operated by Enya Holdings BV.

Mr Speaker, the consideration of US$50 million was a negotiated sum which was paid within fifteen days of NFC signing the sale and purchase agreement with Enya Holdings BV. The money was paid into the Escrow Account held with Finance Bank and it is out of this account that all liabilities will be paid. The Government will not spend a single cent from the Treasury.


Mr M. B. Mwale: They paid US$50 million.

Sir, in this regard, contrary to what was reported in the Post Newspaper of Monday, 20th July, 2009, the Government has no obligation to pay Enya Holdings BV US$50 million for liabilities accrued during their operation of LCM.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members may ask questions on points of clarification based on the information contained in the Ministerial Statement read by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether Prosec Amcor is one of the companies which are going to get their payment from the US$50 million as stipulated by the hon. Minister or it has already been paid.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that Prosec Amcor is one of the companies whose liabilities have not yet been settled.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister clearly state that Enya Holdings BV has a liability of US$120million, and that what has been paid for the purchase of the mine so far is only US$50million.  We have just been told that the US$50million which was paid by NFC is the amount of money which has been used to clear part of the debt. Where is the Government going to get the difference to clear the outstanding US$70million?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to clarify what a scheme of arrangement is for the benefit of the hon. Member. A scheme of arrangement is the re-arrangement of the rights and obligations involving a company. For instance, if a company is facing liquidity problems, and a liquidation wind-up may be too drastic an option, such a company can propose a scheme of arrangement to its creditors. Upon approval by the creditors, it can seek court approval of the scheme.

Mr Speaker, the main objective is corporate recovery rather than corporate dissolution because when a company is dissolved or liquidated, the creditors are the ones who suffer the most. In this case, I would like to clarify that all the creditors will be paid from the US$50million, hence, 48 per cent of their claims are what will be paid to them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, what happens to the seven creditors who have not conceded to the scheme of arrangement? If they choose to take action, what can happen in an appeal case for these seven who have not accepted the 48 per cent payment for their claims?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank my big brother for the follow-up question. I know he wants me to exercise mental gymnastics.


Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the scheme of arrangement is agreed upon in a court of law. Therefore, if anybody is not happy with that scheme, they can seek redress from the courts. However, as matters stand so far, the Government has no liability accrued as a result of the sale of LCM neither do the ones who have taken over.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, it is a fact that the seven creditors who have not agreed to this scheme of arrangement can still drive LCM into liquidation. Would you also accept that the Government still owes part of this US$120million debt because it owned 15 per cent of LCM? Would you please clarify?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is trying to employ issues of logic. However, the point is that the liabilities which are there now were discussed between LCM and the creditors. It was agreed among the creditors themselves that they should go under a scheme of arrangement. It was agreed that payment would be out of the sale of 85 per cent shares held by Enya Holdings BV in LCM. The Government still held its 15 per cent shares. Even now, with the new owners of LCM, the Government has 15 per cent shareholding.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, this Government has been on record for telling us how they have put measures in place, especially after the Zambian Airways case, to ensure that companies operate prudently and a similar case does not repeat itself. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how they allowed this company to accrue debts which are twice the value of the company.

Mr M Mwale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should understand that the company opted to go under care and maintenance as a result of the meltdown in the copper prices and not because of the debt. The hon. Member should know that the company had a development programme. They wanted to develop Mulyashi Oxide Caps. This is where they accrued most of the debt.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I am aware that one of the conditions that Enya Holdings BV put forward in the sale of LCM was that it would give the Government the price of the mine at zero as long as it paid the liabilities and the shareholders’ loan which was about US$85million. I would like to find out how the Government has treated the US$85million shareholders’ loan of Enya Holdings BV.

Mr M Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member who seems to have a lot of information about Enya Holdings BV, for the question.

Mr Speaker, the Government did not accept the arrangements that Enya Holdings BV proposed. This is why they went ahead with the scheme of arrangement. Even the US$85million that the hon. Member is talking about is included in the US$120million which had to be settled out of the US$50million proceeds of the sale.

I thank you, Sir.



421. Mr Mweemba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how many protected forest areas were in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) whether they were any plans to degazette some of these forests to accommodate the flood victims in the area.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, there is only one protected forest reserve in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency namely Magoye National Forest No. 50, which is located to the left of the road as you come from Monze to Mazabuka.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, as I answered last time when a similar question was asked about whether the ministry would consider degazetting parts of the national parks, game management areas and protected forest areas to provide land for residential purposes, the answer is still no. The Government has no plans to degazette the only forest reserve in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency. This is because there is enough land for people to settle outside these gazetted areas.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


422. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the payment of terminal benefits to all Government retirees would be decentralised to alleviate the hardships that  retirees undergo when they travel to Lusaka for their benefits.

 The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the first phase of the decentralisation of the payment of pension benefits to retirees was done in 2002 by the Public Service Pension Fund (PSPF) Board when it embarked on streamlining its operations using its strategic plan for 2002-2008. This phase of the decentralisation entailed moving away from the manual payment of the benefits using a cheque at a central point to the electronic transfer of funds to retirees in their respective areas of residence. Retirees are encouraged to open bank accounts with any financial institution of their choice in their respective areas of residence. This mode of payment has alleviated suffering on the part of the retirees as they now do not experience the awesome task of travelling long distances to come to Lusaka to collect their cheques.

Sir, in the second phase of the decentralisation, PSPF entered into a partnership of decentralising inquiry services with the Zambia National Pensioners’ Association (ZANAPA) who have been allocated offices by the Ministry of Works and Supply in all provincial centres in the country. Furthermore, the fund has decentralised the inquiry service to all the nine districts through the partnership with the Zambia National Union of Teachers (ZNUT) and Civil Servants Allied Workers Union of Zambia (CSAWUZ) as a pilot project. Depending on the outcome of this partnership, the fund will soon decentralise the inquiry services to the remaining districts in the country. The purpose of PSPF decentralising its inquiry service is to:

(a) strengthen access to pension services; and

(b) reduce the inconvenience and cost that claimants face in pursuing their pension benefits.

Mr Speaker, the two phases of decentralisation have drastically reduced the inconvenience our retirees face when accessing their benefits.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister explain to the House why it takes too long for them to pay both the repatriation and terminal benefits when, in actual fact, the decentralisation has already taken place?

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the repatriation funds are paid by the line ministries responsible. They are not paid by the pension fund. Nevertheless, I do agree that, at the moment, it takes a bit of time before the payments are made. Similarly, on the pension funds, there is a time-lag between the entitlement and the payment. We are working on both of these lags so that we can come back to the normal situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how far the ministry has gone with publicising the decentralisation because we are still getting relatives coming from villages to urban areas to claim for their pensions. How far have you gone with letting the people in the rural areas know about the decentralisation?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the publicity for this facility has been made, but I take the point. In fact, in certain areas, the facilities for inquiries go beyond the provincial headquarters and have been rolled out to the districts as well. Therefore, most union members are aware of this and they are working hard to make this known to other members, but I have also taken note of what the hon. Member has said and we are going to do more so that this facility is known more widely.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, one of the problems which these pension schemes have in paying the employees or retirees is that employers have been failing to remit monies to these schemes. What is the Government doing to make sure that monies are remitted to these schemes?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, that is true, but it is no longer a problem today. The failure to remit the dues is something that happened in the 1990s and early 2000s. Now, money is remitted on time.

Mr Speaker, over the past few years, what has been happening is that the arrears arising from the past are what the ministry has been paying out and my anticipation is that within the next two to three years, we should be current. In other words, the arrears would have been paid off. Similarly, we shall be current in terms of the current payments.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, one observation is that unionised Government workers are the ones for whom it takes long to be paid their benefits when those in senior portfolios are paid on time. Could the hon. Minister explain the reason for this?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, that statement is not correct because I know of people who were very senior in Government, but have not yet been paid. This morning, I got a reminder from somebody who was very senior and has not been paid. Therefore, it is not true to say that there is discrimination in favour of all the former senior people against the unionised members.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I am excited by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning assurance that pension arrears will be wiped out in three years and the pension scheme will be current. Could the hon. Minister confirm this Government assurance that, in fact, that is the position and he is working towards ensuring that arrears are going to be a thing of the past in three years time?

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Luapula is assured by this Chair that the assurance has been recorded and there is a committee of this House that will follow that up.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that the payment of pension dues is a thorn in the flesh of many Zambians. In the 2008 Budget, the Government provided over K400 billion to clear all retirees at that time. May I know how much of that money was disbursed and whether the targeted retirees were cleared as at 31st of December, 2008?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the question has now diverted from being of a policy nature to being a very detailed one. However, I can only answer if I am given time to research on that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


423. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs how many prohibited immigrants from the following countries had served prison sentences in Zambia from 2001 to 2008:

(a) Senegal;
(b) India;
(c) China; and
(c) Mali.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, the following prohibited immigrants served prison sentences from 2001 to 2008:

 (a) Senegal - 9
 (b) India - 1
 (c) China - 2
 (d) Mali - 5

Sir, the House may wish to know that other prohibited immigrants from the above-named countries who appeared before the courts of law were sentenced with an option of a fine which they paid and did not serve prison sentences.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, the answer given by the hon. Minister is slightly impressive. However, may I find out whether this department has enough prosecutors? I know that the foreigners who have been taken to court are many. Do they have the capacity?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, the issue of capacity is a difficult one because we may not have the necessary manpower. However, we have a legal person that is handling all the cases which are before the courts. In the event that we do not have one, the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) can assign someone to handle those cases.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, what has happened to those prohibited immigrants that were prosecuted and fined? Were they deported or not?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, usually, such immigrants can be removed out of the country without serving a sentence. The Chief Immigration Officer can actually recommend for their removal out of the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that these nine Senegalese, one Indian, two Chinese, and five Malians were imprisoned for immigration offences or were they imprisoned for other offences other than immigration offences?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, they were imprisoned because of immigration offences.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


424. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Lands:

(a) when all miners who bought ex-ZCCM houses on the Copperbelt would be issued with title deeds;

(b) how many units at (a) above already had title; and

(c) how much money is expected to be spent on the completion of the exercise at (a) above.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands cannot determine when all the ex-miners who bought ex-Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) houses on the Copperbelt will be issued with title deeds. This is because the process of issuance of certificates of title to the ex-miners is driven by the pace of ZCCM Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH). The ministry processes documents as and when lodgements are made by ZCCM-IH. So far, the ministry has no pending documents.

Sir, the ministry has issued 20,128 title deeds to date.

The money to be spent on the completion of the issuance of titles cannot be determined as per the answer given in part (a) above. However, the ministry has spent K1.95 million to- date.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, about 50,000 housing units were sold by ZCCM in Zambia. I am wondering why it has taken the Government twelve years not to provide title deeds for the 30,000 households. Why is there this delay and yet the ex-miners paid for everything including surveying?

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I have indicated in my answer in part (a) that issuance of title deeds depends on when lodgements are made by ZCCM-IH. Once the lodgements are made, the ministry does not waste time. It will always give the titles.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, a number of miners were offered houses which they paid for although these same houses were being occupied by other claimants. Given the scenario that these miners who paid for the houses are not staying in them and have lost money, is the Government determined to refund the money or to force those people that are living in those houses to move out?

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I have indicated that the problem surrounding the titles is under ZCCM-IH. Once ZCCM-IH gives us the details, we will be able to move. We have no problem at any time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister indicate to the House what the lead time is between the time the lodgement is done and the time the title deed is issued?

The Minister of Lands (Mr Daka): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands has a charter and the normal time that we have put in that charter is fourteen days.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, ZCCM-IH is a baby of the Government. This question of title deeds has been coming to the Floor of this House for a long time. What is the Government doing to compel ZCCM-IH to speed up the process of lodging the papers?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I think we have to understand the separation of powers. When the lodgement is done, the Ministry of Lands will process the title deeds. The representatives of the employees are ZCCM-IH. Therefore, the onus is on the owners of those houses to push ZCCM-IH.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, in 2006, during the elections, the issuance of title deeds for former ZCCM houses was promised to the people on the Copperbelt. Can the Government assure me that during the next elections, this issue will not be used to swear the people on the Copperbelt?


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister of Lands will understand the word to mean sway.

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I understand the word is ‘sway.’  The hon. Deputy Minister has said 20,128 title deeds have been issued, so far. It does not mean that we have been at a stand still from that time to date. We will ensure that ZCCM-IH pushes the lodgements as soon as possible.


425. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Education:

(a) how many teachers had been recruited in 2008 based on the 2008 budgetary provisions; and

(b) how many teachers had been awaiting confirmation following their successful completion of the one year probationary period in the following provinces:

(i) Lusaka;

(ii) Copperbelt;

(iii) Eastern; and

(iv) Western.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, I would firstly like to make correction that the probationary period is six months and not one year.

 There were 5,000 teachers recruited based on the 2008 budgetary allocation.  4000 were for basic schools while 1,000 were for high schools. Every teacher who completes his or her probationary period is ready for confirmation. The ministry has continued to recommend confirmations of all eligible teachers as this is an ongoing process. The teachers employed, in 2008, are part of this process and are being confirmed as and when recommendations are submitted to the Teaching Service Commission (TSC).

The number of teachers awaiting confirmation in the provinces requested for is as follows:
Province   Number of
Western Province 600

Copperbelt Province  2,502

Lusaka Province  1,236

Eastern Province  870

Total  5,208

Mr Speaker, the ministry is working with TSC to ensure that all teachers who have completed their probation are confirmed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the confirmation of teachers has been an area of concern for both the teachers and the general public. May the hon. Minister give the time frame within which all confirmations for teachers recruited in 2008 will be completed. This is taking account his reference to the probation being six months.

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, we appreciate the concern that has been raised by the hon. Member. We concede that we have had challenges, in terms of our systems, in ensuring that we confirm all the teachers within the stipulated six months. Even, currently, if you look at the figure of 5,208, it means that we are dealing with a backlog and not just those who were employed in November, 2008. We are trying very hard to ensure that we make the system user friendly by looking at all the bottlenecks that delay the processing, especially by heads of schools submitting the information and the relevant documents, timely, to the ministry. We appreciate your concern and we will ensure that we review this system as soon as possible, even though I am not able to give you the actual time frame.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how many teachers did not take up their positions, especially those recruited in the rural areas.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I do not have the details of those who did not take up their positions. Again, this also has to do with us refining our systems so that we have this information immediately when it is requested for within our own ministry. As I said, we are dealing with backlogs from before 2008 and, right now, we seem to be challenged to be able to separate those who were employed in 2008 and the backlog that goes as far back as 1996.

Mr Speaker, we do concede that we need to improve our systems and if the question was in written form, we would do our research and provide the answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, there have been reports that teachers recruited, last year, especially those who were in private colleges have been deleted from the payroll by the Government. Can the hon. Minister confirm that?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, we cannot confirm that because we have not received such information.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma): Mr Speaker, out of the 5,000 teachers posted in basic schools, I would like to find out how many of these were posted to community schools.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, in our answer we, clearly, stated that out of the 5,000 teachers recruited in 2008, 4,000 were deployed to basic schools and not community schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether it is in her ministry’s plan to empower school administrations to process and recommend promotions to TSC given the challenges that she alluded to.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the process is, actually, initiated from the schools and the stipulated time is six months. Our challenge is that we have to put provisional benchmarks within those six months. For example, once a new teacher arrives at a school, within those six months, how long should the ministry wait for the head teacher’s recommendation for the confirmation of this teacher? If we assume that in the next two or three months this teacher is observed and a recommendation letter is written to the District Education Officer (DEB), it is at this point, again, that we should have benchmarks within these six months. For example, how long should a recommendation take from the DEBs to the provincial officer? Then, again, when this letter is at the headquarters, should it take two weeks or a month to recommend this teacher to the TSC. This way, in the end, within those six months, we are able to process this confirmation, especially for young eager teachers who are going to join this noble profession.

Mr Speaker, even though we stipulated six months, we seem to be challenged in terms of processes and, sometimes, we have found that even head teachers are not sure when they should write or if they should write, at all, leaving cases of over five years without confirmation. It is totally unacceptable and we intend to review this during this year so that we can make it easier in terms of processing, particularly for confirmations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.




Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to carry out a national wind survey and produce a national wind map to promote and facilitate investment in the production of energy by wind.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, I would like to express my gratitude to you for according me this opportunity to move this Motion on the need for Government to carry out a national wind survey and produce a national wind map to promote and facilitate investment in the production of energy by wind.

Mr Speaker, the current national deficit in electricity generation and the ever rising demand for electricity, both for domestic and industrial use, calls for urgent action in developing alternative sources of energy.

Mr Speaker, one such source of energy that can be seriously exploited for the benefit of consumers is wind. Wind energy has the potential to contribute in reducing the national deficit in power supply and increase access to electricity by the people if properly exploited.

Mr Speaker, according to our available information, without new mining and major industrial growth, yearly, demand growth for power in Zambia is projected at 2 to 4 per cent per annum.

I am aware that, currently, in Zambia, there is the power rehabilitation programme and also planned new investments in power hydro-generating plants.

Mr Speaker, in spite of this, it is projected that there will be a serious immediate shortage of energy even after the machines which are being rehabilitated come back to full capacity. Indeed, we are, currently, facing load shedding on an almost daily basis. Whilst it is true that without projected new mining and industrial loads, the domestic market does not need new capacity until 2018. It is certain that with the planned new industrial parks, farming blocks, irrigation schemes, rural electrification and, indeed, the new mines themselves we will need new energy by 2011.

This is means that the new hydro-plants are being built to serve the mines and export market. However, the, currently, planned plants will not be able to provide the needed energy on a 24/7 load basis.

Mr Speaker, this has implication for tariffs, power purchase agreements (PPAs) and Zambia’s economy. Zambia’s drought risk is real and we had lower production in the years 1993/94/95/96 and 2001. Seeing that we have this global warming which is on- going, at the moment, it means that the risk of drought and lower production is something that we have to take into account. This can be mitigated by us moving away from total dependence, practically, on hydro-electricity to other alternative sources.

Mr Speaker, there are several questions that arise from the planned expansion programmes and import strategies that the Government intends to use in mitigating the national deficit in electricity generation. If we cannot import, for example, from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), will we have enough energy to meet Zambia’s needs as well as new contracts for export sales? This might not be possible unless we develop other sources of energy.

What would be the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation’s (ZESCO) import bill for base load energy to serve the mines and new industries if we do not develop our own? Is it wise to set high connection charges if they can be a significant reduction of load shedding in the future? The load forecast and least cost plans show that Zambia is already short of energy and will need to import. The question, of course, is from where?

Mr Speaker, solar energy is a possible alternative power source and there have been projects such as the one by the British Petroleum (BP) which was planned to produce a peak of approximately 250 Kilo Watts (KW). This project targeted 121 community based organisations and nine schools in the rural areas of Zambia.

The solar panels installed by BP solar who were awarded a contract by the Zambia Social Investment Fund were to generate electricity for lighting, radio, television and refrigeration. Arnaud Mine, CEO of Apex-BP solar said and I quote:

“This project is another example of the part solar energy is called on to play in sustainable development in Africa. It combines environmental, economic and social considerations, while obviating the need to set up capital intensive infrastructure in the regions concerned. The same technology is already available in Europe for more specific applications.”

Mr Speaker, the current cost of wind energy has been going down with new technologies to the extent that the economics of a 50 MW wind farm at a wind site with average speed of 13/17 miles per hour would have a capital cost outlay of $65 million or US$1.3 million per MW.

Annual power production assuming a 35 per cent capacity factor of 150 million KW hours could bring annual gross revenue of $6 million.  This is assuming that the power purchase price of 4 cents per KWh.

Mr Speaker, over the last twenty years, the cost of electricity from utility scale wind systems around the globe has dropped by more than 80 per cent. In the early 1980s, when the first utility scale turbines were installed, wind generation electricity cost as much as 30 cents per KWh. Now, state of the art wind power plants can generate electricity for less than 5 cents per KWh. A price that is competitive with new coal or gas-fired power plants.

The next generation of wind turbine technology is expected to generate electricity at prices that will be even lower still.

The most important factors in determining the cost of wind-generated electricity from a wind farm are:

(i) the size of the wind farm;

(ii) the wind speed at the site; and

(iii) the cost of installing the turbines.

Each of these factors can have a major impact. Generally speaking, the larger the wind farms, all other factors being equal, the lower the cost of energy. The higher the wind speed, the lower the cost of energy. The less expensive construction costs are, the lower the cost of energy.

Mr Speaker, the distance that power must be transmitted to the area where the power is to be consumed is a fourth potentially significant cost element. ZESCO’s current wheeling charges average about 20 per cent of our electricity bills. If these wind farms are cited close to where the energy is required, we would reduce on these wheeling charges.

Mr Speaker, wind farms could be built where farming blocks are planned, for example, thereby opening up farming land much faster than would otherwise be done.

Transmission and market access constraints can significantly affect the cost of wind energy. Since wind speeds vary, wind plant operators cannot perfectly predict the amount of electricity they will be delivering to transmission lines in any given hour.

Mr Speaker, it is for these reasons that interconnection procedures with the main grid should be standardised so that excess production of energy in an area can be fed into the main national grid.

  The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) should own most of these wind farms. Even where these utilities are privately owned, there should not be difficult and burdensome requirements for wind companies that have chosen to build their own wind plants for connection to transmission lines.

Mr Speaker, as electricity markets are restructured and long-term power purchase agreements give way to trading on power exchanges, transmission and market access conditions will play an increasingly important role in the economics of a wind project.

Mr Speaker, allow me to give some examples of the current wind energy projects in Africa as a way of encouraging the Government to consider wind projects seriously. There are some small plants such as the Darling Independent Power Producer in South Africa with a 5.2 megawatt output which went online in 2007. There is even the smaller Darling Sustainable Energy and Employment Scheme wind farm which produces 0.25 megawatts. There is the Klipheuwel demonstration wind farm, I hope I have pronounced that correctly, in South Africa with a 3.2 megawatts output which was installed in 2002.

There are larger ones such as the Al Koudia Al Baida Wind Park in Morocco which has a 50.4 megawatts power output. Other facilities in Morocco are at Tanger and Tarfayer with 140 and 60 megawatts output respectively. Egypt has 60 and 63 megawatts power plants. Namibia, just next door, has a 220 kilowatt power generation plant. Eritrea has several, one of which is a 250 kilowatts plant installed in 2004. Algeria has several ranging between 10 to 20 megawatts. The largest is in Zarafarana in Egypt which has a total of 123 megawatts.

Mr Speaker, it is not only in the North African countries that this is being done, but even close to home in Malawi. Malawi has a thriving wind power generation programme. Renewable technologies in Malawi currently account for 0.2 per cent of the total energy contribution and the Malawian Government intends to increase renewable energy contribution to the energy mix to 5.5 per cent by 2010.

Mr Speaker, this power is used to light up villages with renewable energy technologies so that villagers can now enjoy lights during the night, watch videos or television, listen to radios, drink cold water and drinks from fridges, operate barbershops and small-scale entrepreneurship schemes such as charging batteries. It is also used to provide portable and fresh water for villages with renewable energy technologies. Villagers can access portable and fresh water thereby reducing water borne diseases and the problems of getting water from far off places by women and girls. There is also the aspect of the environmental protection use of renewable energy technologies. In Mozambique, a similar project is ongoing and there are several benefits that wind energy has brought.

Diesel generators are sometimes looked at as a solution, but they are not efficient and are noisy. Therefore, for farmers, the wind turbines are, in general, a better option. In Mozambique, with the support of the Dutch Government and the European Union (EU), it is possible to sell wind turbines for water pumping to farmers. Other applications in Mozambique for wind energy are telecom repeater stations, lighthouses and army and offshore uses.

Wind energy is cheaper than solar energy and creates more local business and jobs because the wind turbines can be partly produced locally. Training and the import of new technology makes it possible to produce other products, which creates new jobs. Installation and service also creates many jobs. Wind energy is, therefore, very beneficial and we could learn from Mozambique.

Increased awareness by stakeholders and decision makers of the solar and wind resources and the relevance of the resource information to the development and deployment of various solar and wind technologies is something that the Government should encourage. There is also need for the Government to help in the proper planning and design of appropriate equipment at a cost effective and best suited way for these wind systems.

Increased awareness by the key stakeholders and decision makers of the seller and wind resources and the relevance of the resource information to the development and deployment of various solar and wind technologies is something which is certainly needed.

Consistent, reliable, verifiable and accessible global data sets for international and in-country investors and other stakeholders are also important. Without this information, the necessary investment in wind generation will not be made. All of this will increase investor confidence and the confidence of key stakeholders such as the Government agencies responsible for facilitating clean energy development.

It will also lead to increased capacity for making solar and wind energy plans on the local, provincial, national and regional levels. The availability of wind resource data and training in the use of the tools to make use of the data will facilitate better planning for wind energy development.

There is no doubt that large area high-resolution wind and solar resource mapping will reveal the true extent of commercial wind and solar project development potential which, I am confident, will be far larger than currently thought possible.

Mr Speaker, currently, in Zambia, we rely on wind information gathered from about thirty-eight sites which are the meteorological sites. Unfortunately, the wind speed measured at these sites is typically measured at a height of about two metres from the ground whereas most wind turbines and wind run machines gather wind from a height of 10 metres and the speed of the wind generally increases as you go higher. Currently, in Zambia, it is thought that it is only in Western and Luapula provinces where there are sufficient wind speeds, but this is based on data gathered at a height of two metres. No doubt, if data was gathered at a height of 10 metres, we would find that there are many more areas in Zambia other than Western and Luapula provinces where wind farms could be sited.

Mr Speaker, it is also in Western and Luapula provinces where there are great challenges with regard to connecting to the national grid. The far west of Zambia has to rely mostly on diesel generators which are not environmentally friendly and are expensive, and yet we have sufficient wind speeds to connect our people to electricity using that resource. It is also in the areas of Western and Luapula provinces where many of our people are killed by crocodiles when they go to draw water from the lakes and rivers there.

With wind energy, it would be possible to generate even a little energy through the use of simple windmills to pump the water from these rivers and lakes to a safe place where the villagers can draw water without having to face crocodiles.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to urge the Government to consider the strides that this would make towards meeting the millennium development goals (MDGs) that include access to water. I would also like to urge the Government to carry out a national wind survey and produce a national wind map to promote and facilitate investment in the production of energy by wind.

Mr Speaker, whilst we appreciate that the Government is making efforts to mitigate the national deficit in generating electricity, it is important that other sources of energy, particularly wind energy, are explored in order to avoid the effects of drought on energy supply.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, now.

Mr Speaker, I stand to support the Motion urging the Government to map out the areas where the development of wind energy can be realised. As the mover has ably said, this is a non-controversial but progressive Motion.

Sir, I would like to liken the mapping out of areas in which wind energy can be developed to the location of national parks in the country. If an investor wants to invest in tourism, they are shown places such as the Nsumbu National Park or Mweru-wa-Ntipa where they can get animals such as buffaloes and lions.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Similarly, this survey will identify the areas in the country where the Government can promote the production of energy using wind rather than by establishing hydro-power stations. The prediction by the energy experts that by 2006 an energy deficit would occur in Zambia and part of the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) was realised last year. As a result of relying on hydro-power, we are now experiencing a power deficit.

Sir, once wind energy is developed, even a poor farmer in Chimbamilonga, Chavuma and Chadiza will be able to have a windmill which will produce power and water for irrigation, hence, increasing food security.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, as the mover has mentioned, the current statistics from the Meteorological Department in the Ministry of Communications and Transport indicate that at a height of 2 metres, a wind speed of 2.5 metres per second can be achieved. However, the ministry has admitted that it has never done any wind survey in the country. Since we are urging the Government to put in place a policy to diversify from hydro-power to other forms of energy, I am sure the ministry is going to take this Motion seriously.
Mr Speaker, last year, Zam Capitol held an exhibition which showed that running a dynamo at 8 metres can enable a person irrigate a farm and light their house at a cost which is twice or thrice lower than hydro-power. As a result, the reliance on hydro-power will be reduced.

With the industrialisation that has been taking place in Zambia, such as the introduction of the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs) by the Government, the investment in Lumwana and other parts of North-Western Province and the Kasaba Bay Tourism Project, there has been an increased demand for power. However, if wind energy is developed, there will be no need for the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and other providers of hydro-electric power to panic as some areas will have other forms of energy.
 Today, the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR), with the support of the Government, is undertaking a trial on the use of wind energy at a height of 15 metres. If this trial is successful, we will be able to electrify many schools and science laboratories which will prove that science is a reality.

Mr Speaker, once wind energy is developed, there will be development in the education sector, health delivery, farming and tourism. All this will be done at a lower cost than if we used diesel operated generators that are very costly to run and which, above all, make the cost of doing business very high.

Mr Speaker, the Rural Electrification Programme (REP) will benefit from the mapping of areas in which wind energy can be developed. For example, it can be said that in areas such as Kaputa or Nsumbu, which have on and offshore winds, we are not going to take hydro-power, but will rely on wind energy because the speeds there are constant. If this is done, then before 2030, every province will be electrified. That will be a plus for the Government in office which will lead to its gaining support.

I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I just wish to give some moral support to my colleague here so that he affords me more sitting room on the bench from time to time. I did ask him before we began to debate whether by wind survey he intended to start with some of the speeches made in this House. He assumed I was joking. Therefore, I will back off that.

Mr Speaker, in this country, we have a tendency to go over board with regard to new technologies and new inventions as if they were some magical solutions. One can read about Jatropha the wonder crop. It has not proved to be an economically viable source of diesel like fuel although it may one day be. It is not a wonder crop.

Similarly, wind energy is one of the oldest energies used in this country, at least, in colonial times. I think the first settler brought with him a windmill and steam engine. These were the original sources of energy in North-Western and North-Eastern Rhodesia. It is well known that if you have a large enough water reservoir, you can keep it full for your cattle and, maybe, even for your household water if you have a windmill. I do not think the principle has changed. In this country, wind is very variable both from day to night. In fact, it hardly ever blows at night, especially during the windy and dry period of the year.

    Many times before and after the rains, there is no wind at all, either during the day or night. We looked into these matters when we were putting the Mpongwe Pilot Project together which turned into the Mpongwe Development Company. The number of megawatts or kilowatts required for the project, unfortunately, ruled out wind power from the number of sources available at that time as a source of irrigation water. You need a kilowatt a day per hectare to irrigate effectively a crop like wheat, for example. That was not on the cards. There are things that are on the cards and I think the idea of electrical electric energy kiosks which are suddenly beginning to be common in some other African countries is a good initiative. There are plenty of electrical devices which need recharging like cell phones, portable radios, lanterns, torches or household lanterns with rechargeable batteries. If you have a centre for a group of villages where they can take cell phones or torches to recharge, it supports a lot of utilities for very little investment. We need batteries, of course, otherwise you maybe watching a football match and suddenly your television set may go off when the wind dies down and turn on again when the wind picks up and so you need something to buffer you.

Lastly, when talking about large-scale wind energy, one of the things that my friend, the hon. Member for Livingstone, might care to know is that we have got very erratic wind or power supply of any sort which we can use. However, one of the things you can do with it is to pump water back up into hydro-electric dams so that the water runs down through the turbines, let us say of Kafue River and is now escaping into the Zambezi River, but you pick it up when the winds are blowing with wind energy and put it back into the dam. That way, you get to store the energy and use it as you require it rather than being dependent upon the wind continually blowing which I assure him does not blow continually at any altitude or power that I and many other people in this House may doubt. I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, the Government supports the Motion on the Floor moved by the hon. Member for Livingstone that a national wind survey be put up to assess and produce a national wind map to promote and facilitate investment in the production of energy by wind.

The Government so far has put in place some measures to promote the development of wind energy in the country. As it has been observed, the average wind speed in Zambia measured at two metres above the ground is two point five metres per second. This wind regime can be used for water pumping, domestic and irrigation purposes. In order to generate electricity, an absolute wind speed of six point five metres per second is required.

Mr Speaker, taking into account the low average wind speeds in Zambia, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development initiated pilot projects to promote the use of wind energy for water pumping, that is, for both domestic use as well as irrigation. To date, four windmills have been installed in Southern Province, two were installed at Government schools, namely, Kaumba Basic School in Monze and Musokotwane Basic in Kazungula District.


Mr Konga: The other two were installed at health centres, namely, Sinafala Health Centre in Kalomo and Moobola Rural Health Centre in Choma’s Mapanza area. The windmills at Kaumba and Musokotwane developed some technical faults and were not operating for sometime. The faults have since been identified and the windmills will soon be refurbished. As a way of expanding the pilot project, ten sites have been identified in Western Province and windmills will be installed subject to the availability of funds, hopefully, before the beginning of the rainy season this year.

Mr Speaker, there are areas in Zambia, for instance, in the Western Province that experience wind speeds exceeding five metres per second. These areas have potential to support electricity generation. Following the current national deficit in electricity generation verses demand, the ministry has intensified efforts to develop alternative sources of energy among them, wind. To this effect, plans are underway to develop a national wind speed atlas. The atlas shall give information regarding the specific wind speeds nationwide. All areas with wind speeds that have potential for electricity generation shall be identified. A pilot project to exploit the resource shall be set up which shall eventually result into a pilot wind farm which will be generating electricity that will either be fed into the national grid or used in an isolated grid.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development has never carried out a national wind survey to-date. The information that the ministry currently uses is obtained from the Department of Meteorology as drawn from the existing thirty-eight meteorological stations nationwide. However, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development has currently put in place measures to develop a wind atlas for the country as alluded to earlier. The data for the wind atlas will be collected from some identified centres in all the districts of the country.

The first step entails assessing the existing wind data. Currently, wind speeds are measured at two metres above the ground as I said. Most of this data was generated by the Department of Meteorology, but there are some isolated individuals mostly commercial farmers who have generated similar data. A preliminary wind atlas shall be drawn from such existing data. Some areas with higher wind speeds shall be identified and intensive wind assessments shall be carried out in the identified areas.

    The target shall be to measure wind speeds at various heights, the rationale being the natural phenomenon that the higher you go, the higher the wind speeds. It is hoped that measuring winds speeds will result in striking the required absolute minimums for electricity generation. Subsequently, the development of the wind resource for electricity generation in Zambia shall stream from the findings of such a study.

Mr Speaker, the key parameters for developing wind farms among others include:

(a) planning policy;
(b) wind speeds;
(c) target capacity; and 
(d) environmental constraints.

Mr Speaker, the only limiting parameter for Zambia is the wind speeds. It is thus, imperative that the wind speed regime in Zambia be ascertained at higher heights and a wind atlas of wind speeds at 10 metres and above the ground be generated. To-date, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development working hand in hand with the Department of Metallurgy has commenced meetings towards the development of a wind atlas using existing information.

Sir, some significant strides have been made in other countries as we heard earlier, regarding the production of wind energy in Africa. In Africa, some countries among others, South Africa, Malawi and Namibia have made progress towards the setting up of wind farms for electricity generation. Namibia is in the process of building a wind farm of more than 220 kilovolts.

Mr Speaker, in Europe where the wind resource has been extensively exploited both onshore and offshore, electricity is generated using wind. For example, Shell Windenergy alone set up wind energy projects with an installed gross capacity of 838 mega watts in six years. This includes both on and offshore projects. Zambia being a land locked country must take note of some of the onshore projects embarked on by Shell and their capacity which is as follows:

 (a) Harburg Germany 4 mega watts
 (b) La Muela Spain 99 mega watts
 (c) White Water Hill California, USA 60 mega watts
 (d) Colorado Green, Colorado, USA 160 mega watts.

Therefore, my Government will collaborate with other national institutions and international organisations who have led the way in wind energy production to also come up with a wind atlas so that we can determine the wind speeds and use them to determine the wind energy generation levels.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, I thank for giving me the opportunity to wind up debate on this motion. I would like to thank the seconder of the Motion who in his vigorous debate showed that it could possibly be an alternative source of energy.

I would also like to thank the hon. Member for Lusaka Central (Dr Scott) for his contribution. I would like to assure him that he need not fear the future as he talked so much about the past, the settlers and the technologies that they brought. He can move out from such thoughts. Mpongwe Project was done eighteen years ago when the technology used was not as advanced as it is today. Probably, he would find that a reassessment of the project with new technologies in mind would make it worthwhile. With regard to the question of the erratic supply of energy, that is why there is backup power in these areas where wind energy is used.

Sir, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development for his unreserved support for the project. I hope the hon. Minister and his ministry will be able to quickly put in place what he has stated.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I beg to move.

Questions put and agreed to.





The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Bill before this august House seeks to revise the Budget Cycle of the Republic of Zambia. Currently, the Constitution provides for the Budget to be presented to the National Assembly within three months of commencement of the financial year. Consequently, the Budget is usually presented on the last Friday of January and approved at the end of March. Thus the actual implementation of Government programmes is delayed because the disbursement of funds for the financial year only beings after the approval of the Budget usually from the middle of April.

Sir, hon. Members will recall that several representations have been made to the Government by stakeholders who include the private sector, cooperating partners, professional associations and hon. Members of Parliament on the need for the Government to change the Budget Cycle of the Republic. Thus, in presenting this Bill before this august House, the Government is responding to those many representations because the Government agrees that this move is progressive and will benefit our country.

Mr Speaker, the Bills seeks to amend Article 117 of the Constitution so that Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure should now be presented to the National Assembly within three months before the commencement of the next financial year. This will ensure that Parliament approves the budget by 31st December and that the implementation of the budget starts in the first month of the financial year. This measure is meant to ensure that the resources are allocated in good time to ensure smooth Government operations in the implementation of development programmes for our people.

Sir, in a year where a general election takes place and the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure cannot be laid before the National Assembly, within three months before the commencement of the next financial year, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will cause the estimates for that financial year to be prepared and laid before the National Assembly within ninety days of the swearing in of the President.

  This is in recognition of the fact that the National Assembly stands dissolved in the period before general elections which, in many cases, takes place towards the end of the year.

Sir, I have also looked at the report of your Committee which looked at this particular Bill and I wish to concede, on the outset, that we shall make amendments to include provisions for the enactment of the Budget Act.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, this Bill is not controversial. It is progressive and timely. I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this august House to support it.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to brief this august House on matters pertaining to the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, N. A. B. No. 22 of 2009, which was referred to your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters on the 22nd July, 2009 for scrutiny.

Sir, the object of this Bill, as stated by His Honour the Vice-President, is to amend the Constitution of Zambia so as to:

(a) revise the Budget cycle of the Republic; and

(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Sir, your Committee invited various stakeholders to make both written and oral submissions before them. Your Committee received favourable reactions from the stakeholders and I trust that hon. Members will find the report useful as they debate the Bill.

Sir, all the witnesses of your Committee supported the Bill and their submissions are recorded in your Committee’s report for the consideration of the hon. Members of this House as they debate the Bill.

Mr Speaker, the proposed amendment will improve Budget execution for new capital projects as the implementation period will be extended from the current nine months to twelve months in a Budget year. This amendment will also allow for the re-alignment of the Budget execution period to the fiscal year which, in Zambia, is from 1st January to 31st December.

Sir, one of the issues your Committee were confronted with was the need for a timely enactment of the Budget Act in order to give a fuller legal backing to the proposed Constitutional Amendment and to guide the stakeholders in the implementation of the proposals made.

Mr Speaker, your Committee further urge the Government to begin consultation on a Draft Budget Bill in order that it may be brought to the House for debate followed by enactment without unnecessary delay. I wish to acknowledge what His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has stated that they have conceded to this. 

Mr Speaker, the stakeholders further proposed that the Bill should consider the whole process of budget approval, financial reporting and timing of the Auditor-General’s Report as these need to be harmonised in order to get near-accurate data which will be used in the budget cycle.

Sir, the stakeholders stated that in terms of the whole budget cycle from budget preparation, approval, execution, reporting and auditing, the preparation of financial statements by June assumed the full implementation of the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS), which by 1st April this year, should have been rolled out. This has not been the case. This, therefore, is a challenge and must be attended to, to operationalise the Bill.

Sir, on the implementation of the IFMIS Programme, your Committee appreciate its importance as it is critical to Budget preparation, preparation of financial reports and also the Auditor-General’s reports. However, your Committee note, with dismay, that there have been delays in the implementation of IFMIS…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, before we went on break, I was stating that your Committee note, with dismay, that there have been delays in the implementation of IFMIS due to changes in staffing. Your Committee hope this aspect of staffing will not further affect the implementation of IFMIS as there is need to heighten and speed up the improvement of the financial reports.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee wish to express their appreciation to the witnesses who made submissions before them. However, your Committee are disappointed with the Economics Association of Zambia (EAZ) who brought submissions that were an exact copy of submissions by another witness who appeared before your Committee earlier and tried to pass them on as their own.


Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, however, your Committee were able to notice that EAZ uplifted, word for word, what the earlier witness had submitted.

Madam Speaker, your Committee take exception to these actions by EAZ, more especially that EAZ are major stakeholders in this particular legislation. Your Committee, therefore, feel that not only did EAZ let down their members, but they also let down the people of Zambia, who expect such a professional association to provide informed leadership in formulating laws and regulations pertaining to the economy and Budget processes of this country.

Madam Speaker, your Committee wish to express their gratitude to you for your guidance during the deliberations.

Madam Speaker, Finally, I wish to commend members of your Committee and the Office of the Clerk for their diligence during the consideration of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill. The Committee would also like to express their gratitude to His Honour the Vice-President in his quickly agreeing with the recommendations of your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add a few words on this Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2009.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me thank His Honour the Vice-President…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: ... since he accuses me of having certain propensities.


Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me say thank you very much for this timely amendment to our Constitution.

Madam Speaker, I say this kindly because in the past, the very Article 117 of the Constitution of Zambia specified that the financial budget for any given year shall be passed by the end of the first quarter such that it provided the Executive and the Public Service with only nine months in which to spend the full budget. As we know, this, in itself, provided certain challenges among which was the inability of the Public Service to spend all the money that was provided for and voted by this Parliament.

The second challenge was that since a significant proportion of the budget is spent on capital projects which provide development for this country, and because the budget was approved by 30th March, even asking for tenders, if they were to be constitutional, would have to wait until the budget was approved. This meant that if you allowed for three months during which the tendering process would be in effect, the actual work on capital projects would commence at the end of June, providing only six months in a year to spend all the money on capital projects.

Madam Speaker, the end result of this was that a number of our programmes were not spent …


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The House is over consulting. Can we listen to the debate.

Mr Milupi: A number of our programmes in this country, come end of a financial year, were not completed.

Madam Speaker, this amendment will mean that at the beginning of each financial year, this country shall have, in place, a fully approved and appropriated budget. This is commendable.

Madam Speaker, I go further and say that by way of housekeeping, perhaps, the Executive and His Honour the Vice-President should have considered a few more amendments to ensure that our budgeting and expenditure cycle is in line. I will talk about a few of these.

Madam Speaker, Article 118 of the Constitution mandates the Minister responsible for finance to lay before this House a Financial Report for the previous financial year, nine months after the end of the financial year. If you look at Article 121, which talks about the Auditor-General, it goes further to say that the Auditor-General shall audit and hand over the report to the President twelve months after the end of the financial year. This means that by the time the Auditor-General’s Report comes to this House - and I emphasise this because one of the key roles of Parliament is to hold the Government to account, and this House deliberates on it - it means, in essence, that the House deliberates on matters that happened two years previously.

Madam Speaker, this is bad management practice because the essence of timing and taking corrective action is lost. Therefore, perhaps, His Honour the Vice-President and his Executive should have considered amending Article 118 to cause the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to lay before this House six months after the end of the financial year, a report on the financial status of the Government.

Madam Speaker, this is not honourable. The Chairperson of your Committee stated that some of the witnesses said that this could be better done if the IFMIS could be commissioned. I do not agree with that entirely, because I know that, this year, the Government was able to ensure that the financial statements were ready by the end of June in spite of the absence of a fully commissioned IFMIS.

It is not a challenge to ensure that six months after the end of a financial year, we do have a financial report. You will agree with me, Madam, that a number of corporate entities do, in fact, ensure that within three months of the end of the financial year, they have financial reports.

Madam Speaker, if this was done, it would also allow Article 121 to be amended to ensure that the Auditor-General lays before this House an audited report of the financial reports of the Government nine months from the end of the financial year. If we did this, it would mean that your House would then be able to delve into matters of the financial expenditures of the Government within the year following the year in which the expenditure happened.

In that case, any recommendations arising from this House would then be very live and help towards moving to transparency in our expenditure.

Madam Speaker, the final recommendation that I wish His Honour the Vice-President to consider deals with Article 115, Clause 2 and Sub-clause (b), which deals with Presidential warrants. In this context, a Presidential warrant is the authority that this House gives to the President to allow expenditure to take place even before the budget is passed. Without this Article, any expenditure outside the budget, which has been appropriated by this House, would be unconstitutional.

Madam Speaker, with these amendments, as proposed by His Honour the Vice-President, it means that there would be no more need for the Presidential warrant because, after all, at the beginning of each year, we shall have a budget in place. Therefore, Article 115, Clause 2 and Sub-clause (b) which says that expenditure shall be carried out under the Presidential warrant where expenditure is necessary to carry out services of the Government in respect of any period not exceeding four months beginning at the commencement of a financial year during which the Appropriation Act for that financial is not in force. This will no longer be necessary. Therefore, I will ask that His Honour, the Vice-President considers this minor amendment to ensure that everything is brought in line.

Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, I support the principal amendment because it will improve the efficiency of the Government in as far as planning the expenditure and Treasury management of the Government is concerned. In the past two years, we have heard of amounts of about K700 billion being returned to the Treasury. This caused many problems. However, if this Bill goes through, these problems will no longer be the case.

Madam Speaker, with this, I thank His Honour the Vice-President and you for allowing me to debate on this matter.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for allowing me to contribute to this Bill. From the outset, let me say that I support the Constitution of Zambia Amendment Bill.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, as many would be aware, this is something that we have been calling for over a long period of time. Finally, the Government has seen value in what we have been suggesting that they should do.

Madam Speaker, in supporting this amendment, I have only two concerns. My first concern is the wording of the amendment. You will realise that the Bill is worded so that it says “the Minister shall lay before Parliament within ninety days before the commencement of a financial year.” This means that the Minister of Finance and National Planning will lay before Parliament within the period one day to ninety days before the commencement of the financial year. This is not the intention. 
It is very clear to me that the intention of the Government is for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to lay the budget before Parliament not less than ninety days before the commencement of the financial year. This is to ensure that Parliament has, at least, three months, which is ninety days, in which to debate the Budget. If the intention is to say within ninety days then, obviously, it means that Parliament will at the mercy of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who will, in one year, decide to present the budget ninety days before the commencement of the financial year and in another year, be at liberty to present the budget sixty days before the commencement of the financial year because both instances are still within ninety days.

Therefore, I would propose to His Honour the Vice-President that he should further consult on the interpretation of the phrase ‘within ninety days’ so that he aligns it with the intention. The intention should be that the Budget should be presented not less than ninety days before the commencement of the financial year.

Madam Speaker, my second concern arises from a submission from one very important stakeholder and this is recorded in your Committee’s report on page 4, where it says and I quote:

“With the change in the Budget cycle, Budget execution should ideally occur from the first to the last month of the financial year with capital projects being implemented from January to September.”

Madam Speaker, that is a contradiction from the intention of the Bill. The amendment is being made so as to increase the period within which Budget execution and implementation of capital projects will be conducted from the current nine to twelve months. Now, there is a proposal that the capital projects must be implemented within nine months. That is not the intention of the law. Therefore, my suggestion is that as His Honour the Vice-President speaks to spending ministries and agencies, he should make it clear that the intention is to increase the period within which capital projects will be conducted to avoid what Hon. Milupi was talking about where we come to the close of the year and with some money not being spent and being sent back to the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, let me end by also joining the Chairperson of your Committee and Hon. Milupi in commending His Honour the Vice-President in acknowledging that there is need to present the Budget Act. This must not only be rhetoric and end by the Government giving us the intention. I hope that His Honour the vice-President will, within the next twelve months, come to this House and present the Budget Act so that we are align the budget cycle, financial year and also the budget processes with the intention of the Government to ensure that there is more participation in the Budget Process, hon. Members of Parliament are consulted and that there is true decentralisation of the Budget Process in Zambia.

Madam, all in all, with the proposal that I have made to amend the word ‘Within,’ I want to thank you or allowing me to contribute and I support the amendment in principle.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, certainly, this amendment is a welcome development although it is late. However, since it is happening now, it is a good thing. The Budget is a process and, therefore, to imagine that it will be presented on the last day of a financial year is unreasonable. Therefore, I am of the view that the normal Budget Process that gives us time and removes the mischief of spending within nine months what should be spent in twelve months will be treated by this Act. I think we should congratulate ourselves for this understanding.

However, this Budget will also do one thing which I will not dwell on because the hon. Member for Luena covered it and this is on the issue of procurement systems and the tendering processes which have been a mischief. They will now be removed by this Act.

Madam Speaker, I would like to state that it is very important that the IFIMIS is implemented and to tie our budget to a Medium-term Expenditure Framework and the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). This consistency becomes very important so that we tie up the way we spend money and people will clearly see which way we are developing.

Madam Speaker, there has been a habit, over the last few years, particularly, this year, of not accompanying the Budget Speech with the economic report. However, although this is not a constitutional recommendation, it should be the case. Only then, can we discern the performance of a previous year compared its succeeding year. I am not unreasonable to believe that this year’s economic report will come ninety days before the implementation. However, I will remind the ministry that come January, that economic report must be with your Budget Speech, which I suspect the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be delivering in some time around September, October or November.

Madam Speaker, the financial report has been ably covered by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena. It is, therefore, important that the document comes on time. You have been good in delivering the Yellow Book and the staff  registers in good time.

Therefore, once the budget is passed, the recess and the planning of the cash management should be consistent with the revenues that we receive per month. There are some people who think there is money lying idle at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning on 1st January which is supposed to be collected first. Nevertheless, I will be saying to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that it is always a good cash management to have some reserve towards the end of the year and before the implementation of the first day of the year so that we do not have lapses in releasing of revenue as we have noticed this year.

Madam Speaker, my final submission is that a good financial director like this man here…

Mr Matongo pointed at Hon. Hachipuka.

Mr Matongo:…would always behave like a good hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.


Mr Matongo: What a good finance or financial director does is to brief his board members quarterly. We are the board of the national finances. Hon. Minister, through the Chair, we have a right to be given a quarterly statement like you did a few days ago.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: That is the reasonable thing to do. It does not have to take David Matongo to tell you to do that.


Mr Matongo:  Madam Speaker, I had to plead for that to come…

 Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Speak through the Chair, hon. Member.

Mr Matongo: Knowing the hon. Minister, as I do, he will, from time to time, now give us a quarterly and a six month and, indeed, the economic report in good time. I have no doubt that with the sort of co-operation we have noted during this session of debate, we will be able to work together and work consistently. However, we will not withdraw from ensuring that the Act is proper and done timely.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this very important Bill.

Madam, I wish to state that I have no choice but to support this Bill because it is exactly what we agreed upon at the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). After we had agreed on several issues in the NCC, this Government was quick to pick on one part and bring it here.


Mr Muntanga: I believe that the efficiency that this Government has shown with regard to this Bill shall also be shown with regard to the NCC recommendation on the 50 per cent + 1 vote and that they will bring it here quickly.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: We support this Government because it is now becoming positive. It has now begun to respond very quickly to the concerns of the people, which have been raised in the NCC, by bringing them to this House and I support it.

Madam Speaker, Government has been making excuses with regard to the execution of projects. Its excuse has always been that the budget cycle starts in January while approval is done by the 31st March. However, I am aware that the President approves a quarter of the Budget every year before approval by this House. If the Government had put plans in place, it would have been spending that amount approved by the President on the projects for that particular year. However, this issue has been slipping through this Government’s hands. Now that this Bill has been introduced, we will see what this Government’s excuse will be since the budget will now be approved by the 31st December. We now expect some of the money you have been spending in the first quarter of the year, which used to be approved by the President, to go towards projects. This is what this Bill is talking about because we are worried about the projects.

I am aware that the Zambia Procurement Authority has also been included and has been given enough power to procure directly as opposed to single sourcing.


Mr Muntanga: Direct procurement has already been exhibited by one or two hon. ministers in this august House and I hope that they will now improve on it without raising a lot of suspicions. We do not want to see a situation whereby a genuine decision is cropped up with suspicions so that the Zambian people might think that there is something wrong.

Madam, since this particular budget cycle has been changed, we expect to see many more good things to come like the Budget Act. The Budget Act must be brought to this House. Once this Act is in place, issues of money diversions and misuse we have always heard from the Auditor-General’s office will be a thing of the past. The Government will show accountability to the Zambian people. The NCC agreed upon this and now Government has brought it to this august House no one is opposing it. We expect that the Government shall execute and deliver to the Zambian people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: In Zambia, the biggest problem we have is the misuse of money intended for projects which is a let down. However, I am not sure whether the Government will be able to fund the 60 per cent part of the Budget since the recent incident at Ministry of Health has resulted in external funding being stopped by the donors.

Madam Speaker, I have observed that people mistake theft for corruption. In my own understanding, the recent incident that took place at the Ministry of Health is real theft. We always talk about corruption, but in Zambia now when someone steals people mistake it with corruption.

I wish to implore to the hon. Ministers that since you have been given more powers to source directly,…

Ms Lundwe: Procurement!

Mr Muntanga: … you should be more careful because we do not want to see a number of you go to jail because some of you are too good to be visited in prison.


Mr Muntanga: I would be very sad to see some beautiful and handsome looking people go to prison.


Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I, whole heartedly, support this Bill because I have no choice since it was approved at the NCC.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members for the thunderous support which they have given to the Bill.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The wording in the clause which we are presenting before the House is word for word as per the current Constitution. The intention is that we should present the Budget within ninety days before the commencement of the financial year.

As regards the issue on the Budget Act, I wish to inform this House that we already have from the Reforms and Modernisation Committee a Draft Bill. Therefore, we will bring this Bill in the next sitting in October, when we present the next Budget. This will certainly come.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Before I put the question, I need to guide the House that when I put the question it will be necessary that the House votes. This is because it is a Constitutional Bill and, therefore, it is a requirement that the House votes. I will give instructions of how to vote as you go about doing it. I am sure that hon. Members are now …


Madam Deputy Speaker: … familiar with the voting system. However, when I put the question, before you vote, I will guide the voting and then the answer based on the votes will be given. I will put the question, guide the vote and the answer will come from the results.

Hon. Members: Bells!

Madam Deputy Speaker: I was going to say that. Let the bells ring.

Question that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2009, be now read a second time, put and the House voted.

Ayes – (117)

Mr M. Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr C.K.B. Banda
Mrs E.M. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr R.C.Banda
Mr G.M. Beene
Mr B.M. Bwalya
Colonel G. Chanda
Mr P.P. Chanda
Ms L.S. Changwe
Mr G. Chazangwe
Mr B. Chella
Mr T.S. Chilembo
Mr B.E. Chimbaka
Mr O.C. Chisala
Mr S. Chisanga
Ms E.K. Chitika
Mr S. Chitonge
Mr J.B. Chongo
Mr L.H. Chota
Ms A.N. Cifire
Mr P.M. Daka
Mr M. Habeenzu
Mr E.M. Hachipuka
Mr H.H. Hamududu
Mr B. Hamusonde
Mr H.L. Imasiku
Ms E.M. Imbwae
Mr S. Kachimba
Mr L.M. Kaingu
Mr K. Kakusa
Mr D. Kalenga
Dr C. Kalila
Dr K. Kalumba
Ms J. Kapata
Mr M.B. Kapeya
Ms C.M. Kapwepwe
Mr E. Kasoko
Mr J.C. Kasongo
Dr J. Katema
Mr S. Katuka
Dr E. Kazonga
Mr K. Konga
Mr G. Kunda
Mr A.C. Liato
Ms M.J. Limata
Mr G. Lubinda
Ms G. Lundwe
Professor L. Lungwangwa
Mr M. Mabenga
Mr B.M. Machila
Mr N.P. Magande
Mr F.P.C. Malwa
Mr L. Mangani
Mrs S.T. Masebo
Mr D. Matongo
Mr A. Mbewe
Mr M.A. Mbulakulima
Mr C.L. Milupi
Mr M.H. Misapa
Mr V.M. Mooya
Mr L.P. Msichili
Mr E. Muchima
Mr A. Mufalali
Mr R. Mukuma
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr L.J. Mulenga
Mr A. Mulonga
Mr M. Mulongoti
Mr J. Mulyata
Mr E.M. Munaile
Mr R. Muntanga
Mrs R.M. Musokotwane
Dr S. Musokotwane
Mr C.M. Musosha
Mr M. Muteteka
Mr R. Muyanda
Mr V.J. Mwaanga
Mr M.B. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Mrs A.B.C.K. Mwamba
Dr K. Mwansa
Mr H.I. Mwanza
Mr S.R. Mwapela
Mr M. Mwenya
Mr J.J. Mwiimbu
Mr B.Y. Mwila
Mrs W.M. Nalumango
Mr M. Ndalamei
Mr B. Nkhata
Mr G. Nkombo
Mr M.A. Nyirenda
Mr K.J. Pande
Mr D.B. Phiri
Professor F. Phiri
Dr L.F. Puma
Ms S. Sayifwanda
Dr G.L. Scott
Mr A. Sejani
Mr C.J. Shawa
Mr P. Sichamba
Mr G.F. Sichilima
Mr B. Sikazwe
Mr S. Sikota
Mr C.M.M. Silavwe
Ms D. Siliya
Mr A. Simama
Mr W. Simuusa
Mr E.M. Sing’ombe
Mrs B.F. Sinyangwe
Mr C.W. Sinyinda
Mr D.M. Syakalima
Mr R. Taima
Mr F.R. Tembo
Ms V. Tembo
Mr J.K. Zulu

Noes – (0)
Abstentions – (0)

Question accordingly agreed to, with more than two-thirds of all the Members voting in the affirmative, and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 6th August, 2009.


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions Act, Chapter 35 of the Laws of Zambia, provides for the appointment and enrolment of notaries public, the regulation of the duties of the office of notary public and empowers magistrates, ambassadors and other specified public officers to perform notarial acts.
Currently, Section 31 of the Act provides that when a notary public is granted letters patent of the rank and dignity of State Counsel for Zambia, the Chief Justice shall revoke his appointment as a notary public and shall order his name to be removed from the roll. The implication of this is that a person appointed as state counsel is deprived of performing the functions of a notary public, which in the legal profession is a privilege attained by virtue of seniority.

Madam Speaker, the legal fraternity and Law Association of Zambia have made representations that this be reversed so that notaries public are not disadvantaged after attaining the most prestigious position of the legal profession, that is, that of state counsel.

Consequently, Madam Speaker, this Bill seeks to amend Section 31 of the notaries public notarial functions Act so as to:

(a) permit state counsel to perform the functions of notaries public in order to ensure that the benefits of seniority and eminence at the bar do not result in the loss of any of the privileges attained in the course of the practice of law before one’s appointment to the rank and dignity of state counsel;

(b) restore the status of notaries public to legal practitioners who enjoy the rank and dignity of state counsel; and

(c) confer the status of notaries public on all state counsel automatically.

Madam Speaker, this Bill is not controversial. It is progressive and I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this august House to support it.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I have the honour to present your Committee’s report on the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions (Amendment) Bill, 2009, refereed to them by the House on Thursday, 16th July, 2009.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Bill is to amend the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions Act, Chapter 35 of the Laws of Zambia, so as to:

(a) permit state counsel to perform the functions of notaries public; and

(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, currently, State Counsel for Zambia are proscribed from performing the functions of notaries public pursuant to the provisions of Section 31 of the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions Act, Chapter 35 of the Laws of Zambia, which provides as follows:

“Upon the grant to any notary public of letters patent of the rank and dignity of State Counsel for Zambia, the Chief Justice shall revoke his appointment as a notary public, whether made under this or any other prior law and shall order his name to be removed from the roll.”

Madam Speaker, this Bill, therefore, seeks to permit a State Counsel for Zambia to perform functions of notaries public. In this regard, Clause 2 of this Bill will replace Section 31 of the Principal Act and will provide that the registrar shall, upon the grant to any legal practitioner of letters patent of the rank and dignity of State Counsel for Zambia, cause the name of the legal practitioner to be entered on the roll of notaries public.

Additionally, the new section will have a retrospective effect in that all those who held the rank and dignity of state counsel prior to this amendment will be deemed to be notaries public.
Madam Speaker, all stakeholders were in support of the Bill. In recommending the Bill, your Committee agree with the stakeholders’ comments that Section 31 of the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions Act, Chapter 35 of the Laws of Zambia, which precludes state counsel from executing the functions of a notary public, is both illogical and outdated for the following reasons:

(a) state counsel are permitted to perform functions of commissioner for oaths which are lesser functions than those of notary public;

(b) other eminent lawyers from other jurisdictions of similar rank to that of state counsel perform the functions of notaries public; and

(c) the elevation of a lawyer to the rank and dignity of state counsel should not result in a loss of a privilege previously enjoyed before such elevation.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, therefore, unreservedly recommend this Bill to the House for favourable consideration.

Lastly, I wish to pay tribute to all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and tendered their oral and written submissions. I also wish to thank you, Madam Speaker, for affording your Committee the opportunity to study the Bill. Your Committee are also grateful for the services rendered by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members for their overwhelming support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 6th August, 2009.


The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to present the Non-Governmental Organisations Bill. I also thank the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare for their observations and recommendations. The Committee observed that the Bill was not only a welcome development, but also long overdue. They noted that after the advent of the liberalised economy, the number of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) had increased tremendously to the extent that their efforts were being duplicated resulting in the irrational use of resources. Their recommendation to scale down the number of board members from sixteen to twelve and to increase the term of certificate renewal from three years to five years will be taken into consideration. I also thank the stakeholders for accepting this Bill.

Madam Speaker, the vision of this NGO Bill is to carry along all actors in the provision of goods and services to reduce the duplication of service delivery while, at the same time, promoting commitment, transparency and accountability, mutual respect and trust among partners. To realise this vision, the Government will facilitate the establishment of a mechanism for consultation among all the stakeholders, enact a law to regulate the operations of NGOs and provide an institutional framework to enhance co-operation, networking and collaboration between the Government, NGOs and our co-operating partners.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, my Government recognises that NGOs play a critical role in national development and after consideration of the stakeholders’ concerns to define the NGO, I do here define it as a voluntary organisation formed with the sole purpose of complementing the Government’s efforts through implementing poverty reduction programmes to improve the standard of living of the poor and vulnerable groups.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: These NGOs mostly focus on all areas of development, including social protection, economic development, health, education, agriculture, employment creation, capacity building and cross cutting issues such as governance, HIV/AIDS, gender, civic education, human rights and advocacy issues surrounding transparency and accountability.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, the Government also recognises that in their efforts to contribute to the reduction of poverty and wealth creation, NGOs are faced with numerous challenges such as, inadequate financial resources necessary to undertake community development programmes, absence of a common code of conduct and an institutional framework to facilitate communication, co-ordination and mutual collaboration between NGOs and the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, this Bill provides clear and constructive guidelines for a realistic and practical operational framework which:

(a) strengthens NGOs and Government collaboration, information sharing and networking for the good of the people of Zambia;

(b) sets the stage for development of essential legal tools necessary to remove impediments and also the NGO sector to excel to its fullest potential; and

(c) endorses a mechanism which embraces the crucial need for accountability and transparency while preserving the integrity of the NGO sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, the Government is mindful and recognises the support the donor community is rendering to NGOs through poverty reduction programmes and other areas of developmental work. It also recognises the support given to NGOs in building the necessary capacity to empower marginalised communities and further appreciates their effort in establishing a civil society based on democratic values. However, it is worth noting that these are faced with serious challenges in ensuring that the Government/NGO/donor relationship is strengthened.

Madam Speaker, this Bill, once in place, will enhance the relationship for the effective implementation of programmes towards poverty reduction and wealth creation. Let me give a brief background of where we are coming from.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, prior to 1991, Zambia had a dominant public sector with a small private sector and almost non-existent NGO sector except for religious and other charitable organisations.
    However, with the introduction of liberalisation and privatisation in the Third Republic, the number of NGOs has increased and so have their operational definitions, types and structures with inadequate guidelines to regulate their operations.

Madam Speaker, this situation was compounded by:

(a) inadequate and outdated legal and institutional framework within which NGOs operate;

(b) lack of transparency and accountability in the operations of some NGOs;

(c) failure by NGOs to adhere to legal provisions requiring them to reveal their sources of funding and submit audited books of accounts and statutory returns;

(d) limited capacity of the Government to enforce legal provisions and monitor the use of funds by NGOs in order to ensure that the benefits reach the intended targets; and

(e) duplication of efforts among NGOs resulting in the irrational use of resources.

Madam Speaker, currently, there are five distinct pieces of legislation dealing with the registration, organisation and regulation of NGO activity. These pieces of legislation are:

(a) The Companies Act (Cap.388);

(b) The Lands and Deeds Registry Act (Cap.185);

(c) The Trustee Act, 1898 of the United Kingdom;

(d) The Societies Act (Cap.119); and

(e) The Adoptions Act (Cap.54).

Under the provisions of The Companies Act, NGOs are registered as companies limited by guarantee. The Companies Act provides that any person may incorporate a company limited by guarantee. Such a company is by law prohibited from carrying out business for the purpose of making a profit for its members or for anyone concerned in its performance or management.

Under The Lands and Deeds Registry Act and The Trustee Act, a register is maintained under which any deed/instrument creating a trust may be registered. A trust is an institution created for the benefit of a specified constituency and its objective is to attend to the needs of that constituency other than to make profit. The highest number of NGOs in Zambia are registered with the Registrar of Societies under The Societies Act. The Act caters for organisations and societies generally and these include political parties, churches, clubs and charities.

Notwithstanding the multiplicity of laws through which an NGO may be incorporated, the statutory obligations of each NGO are determined by the law under which it is registered. For instance, NGOs registered under The Lands and Deeds Act have no obligation to file any sort of returns, including financial ones. On the other hand, NGOs registered under the Societies Act are required to file financial reports only at the request of the registrar. It is pertinent to note that in all the various governing statutes there are no provisions on accountability, collaboration or cooperation with other institutions, including the Government.

Madam Speaker, the provisions of the above pieces of legislation were products of the 1950s when NGO activity was not as pronounced as it is today. It is thus not prudent for NGOs to continue to operate in the realm of an old regime of laws which would never have envisaged the present day. Present day trends require more accountability, as well as collaboration among interested parties involved with the NGOs.

I would like to appeal to hon. Members of the House that there is need for a separate piece of legislation to facilitate the attainment of the objectives of NGOs. The other problem with the current pieces of legislation is that the NGOs obligations with regard to financial and other accountability programmes are discretionary both on the part of the regulator as well as on the NGOs. This fluid situation makes it difficult to compel the NGOs to be accountable not only to their collaborating partners, but also to their members and beneficiaries. Therefore, the most compelling shortcoming of the laws dealing with NGOs is the inability of the respective pieces of legislation to perform regulatory roles. The institutions which are intended to administer these pieces of legislation have inadequate capacity to effectively enforce the legal provisions. In practice, the NGOs have only followed the requirements of the law on initial registration.

Mr Muyanda: Finally.

Mr Kaingu: I can conclude if you want me to.


Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, with those very few words …


Mr Kaingu: … I beg the hon. Members to support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, in accordance with their terms of reference, your Committee were on 16th July, 2009 tasked by the House to scrutinise The Non-Governmental Organisations Bill, 2009. The intention of the Bill is to establish the Non-Governmental Organisations Registration Board and the Zambia Congress of Non-Governmental Organisations so as to enhance transparency, accountability and the general better performance of NGOs.

Your Committee, in considering the Bill, requested written submissions from various stakeholders who also appeared before it and made oral submissions. Your Committee wish to report that most of the witnesses that appeared before it were in support of the Bill. The stakeholders, however, expressed their concerns on a number of aspects of the provisions of the Bill. For instance, the size of the board is stated to be 19 members, on the understanding that all the stakeholders would be represented on the board. However, the effectiveness of a board of that size is questionable. There is, therefore, need to trim down the figure to 10 members. In addition, concern was also raised on the ministerial powers of appointing the chairperson and vice-chairperson of the board. The mandate to elect the chairperson and vice-chairperson should be vested in the board itself in the spirit of enhancing the tenets of democracy.

Another issue of concern relates to the objectives of NGOs. The requirement of an organisation to state the reasons for its existence has in the past created a lot of problems because of the complications arising from defining what is legal and what is not. Experience has shown that organisations that had similar provisions in their constitutions had difficulties regarding the legal effects of contracts and other acts carried out by an organisation outside the stated objectives.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observed that the Bill does not come out clearly on the issues of gender. It therefore urged the Government to clearly state the composition of women in the said board so that it is not left hanging. They also note the provision of refusal to register the NGOs whose activities may not be in the interest of the public.

Your Committee recommend that for purposes of predictability, the Bill should provide for the definition of public interest. Your Committee further note the adequacies on the provisions of the accessibility of the documentation centre. For the purpose of enhancing transparency and accountability, they recommend that the documentation centre be accessible to the general public for any information that a member of the public may require. The centre could charge a fee to anyone who may wish to conduct a search.

Finally, I wish to thank the members of your Committee for the hard work and commitment shown by managing to effectively scrutinise two Bills in a very short period of time.

Madam Speaker, your Committee wish to express its gratitude to you for granting it the opportunity to scrutinise The Non-governmental Organisations Bill, 2009. It further wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the assistance rendered through out their deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to contribute on this important Bill.

Madam Speaker, I recall very well that eighteen years ago, in 1991, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government ascended to power because they promised the people of Zambia that they would uphold the rule of law and their leader then, Dr FTJ Chiluba who was steering the boat never failed the Zambian Government. Today, I stand here to commend the present MMD Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: …, particularly, for upholding their first manifesto in which the rule of law was enshrined. I was part and parcel of the architects of the manifesto at Government and Garden houses in that year. I was the Provincial Chairperson for the MMD in Luapula Province in 1991. I also want to commend the MMD Government for having been so tolerant for eighteen years …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: … since the emergence of many different NGOs, some with personal agendas, some with ill-intentions and others without track and others without realising that their main responsibility was not to be the masterminds of the governance of this country, but to contribute co-operatively to the governance of Zambia as a nation.

Madam Speaker, I want to state here that I have been keenly following how finances have been remitted to NGOs in Zambia. For example in 1997, the Zambians must know that all Brentton Woods institutions and many other NGOs in the developed world remitted to Africa and some parts of the world 2 per cent of their total earned incomes which amounted close to 1 billion kwacha. This money was given to NGOs with the purpose of assisting them to disseminate civic education to the people such that they would be able to appreciate and buy into the policies of the Government of the day in order for them to appreciate good governance.

Madam Speaker, today, we need vibrant, credible, transparent, accountable, responsible and answerable NGOs.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Why, because they are core and social partners in national development. The phenomenon that has emerged of late in some NGOs is such that they think and behave like they are existing in a different Zambian society from others in which their hidden agenda and certain vexed interests makes them act like life their role is to disqualify governments. That is not the essence, if it was the essence, then the international community would by the law of world order not allow such because they all want to appreciate good governance. However, it is very important that the Legislature addresses the inadequacies of humanity such as self-glorification, self-hidden agendas and those that want to create anarchy in the name of freedom of speech and association.

Madam Speaker, Zambia as a state has people with seventy-three different languages who are one regardless of political affiliation. Therefore, what is prudent, today, is for all of us in this House to realise that it is not the intention or personal choice for Hon. Mwiimbu for example to emerge from Monze. It was not my personal choice to come from Mansa. It is beyond that, all of us as Zambians in this House have clear and good roles to play, as divergent as we may be, socially stratified in terms of wisdom. Though we are socially stratified, we have one common goal and that is to develop mother Zambia. Therefore, it is high time our NGOs even as we regulate them, by the enactment of this piece of legislation, must not divorce themselves from their core business which is the provision of civic education so that all the citizens of Zambia fully appreciate being nationals with the responsibility to develop their country.

Madam Speaker, there ought to be tools for the dissemination of information to enable Zambian citizens realise their full potential and contribute to mother Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the Bill is straightforward. I do not think that any well meaning NGO will feel very much isolated or threatened in that the Bill tries to bring all of us from various governance institutions together so that we are accountable to the Zambian people. We must be able to develop Zambia as one state so that our focus must be on poverty reduction, that together our agenda must be …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! How many together? Say one together and finish.


Mr Chimbaka: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Once more together and the last one…


Mr Chimbaka: … we enhance our social and human status in Zambia as a State and above all to be able to address, seriously, issues of mal-administration, poverty reduction and…

Hon. PF Member: Job creation.

Mr Chimbaka: … yes, job creation for the good of every Zambian.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I promise that I will be brief. I only wish to comment on two clauses. Firstly, I would like to congratulate your Committee on the report which is well set and thought out.

Madam Speaker, the first point that I wish to bring out is in relation to Clause 17. This is the clause that provides that there will be instances where the NGO Registration Board may suspend or cancel the certificate of an NGO. This would include, under the second part, where the officers or members of the NGO, misappropriate or misapply the funds of the organisation.

Madam Speaker, in commenting on this, your Committee report as follows, on Page 6, Section 17(c), and I quote:

“Provides for the cancellation of the certificate on grounds of theft. It is open to interpretation whether the cancellation under this section is irrespective of the position of the offender in the organisation. This is bound to affect innocent employees of the organisation, especially where only a minority is involved and probably at lower levels of the organisations. It may, therefore, be necessary to confine such sanctions to top management and also consider the extent of the misappropriation”.

Madam, I do not fully agree with your Committee on this. This is because if there is theft or misappropriation by anybody in an organisation, whether they be the lowest employee or the chief executive of that organisation, they are a separate legal entity from that NGO. If you are going to deregister the organisation because one of the officers, no matter what rank has misappropriated funds, you would be punishing the entire organisation which, itself, would not have done any wrong. You will also be punishing those people who are serviced by that NGO. A lot of our NGOs fill in gaps that the Government cannot reach and make a very big difference to the people in our community. I would have preferred it if that section provided that if an officer or employee of an NGO misappropriated funds, that particular officer or employee could no longer be a member, official, servant or employee of that organisation. In that way, you do not punish innocent people.

We have seen, recently, even here in the country where donors sought to punish the Government because some employees of the Government stole money. It is not the Government which stole the money, but individuals and in suspending that aid to the Government, it is the people of Zambia who suffered and not those individuals who had misappropriated the funds. Those who misappropriate, certainly, must be prosecuted and, if found guilty, jailed. However, whilst that is happening, innocent people should not suffer. That is my submission on Clause 17.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: The second item that I want to debate on is on Clause 32 of the same Bill, which says, and I quote:

“The Council shall facilitate self-regulation by the non-governmental organisations on matters of activities, funding, programmes, foreign affiliations, training, the development of national human resource, institution building, scientific and technological development and any other matters taking into account national security and the public interest”.

Madam, I think that this aspect calling for self-regulation is extremely important. It will be well advisable for NGOs to quickly move in this direction of self-regulation as envisaged by this clause. There is no society where entities are allowed to do as they please without any kind of code of conduct or regulation. Those who are not prepared to self-regulate must expect that there will be statutory regulation. In order to avoid statutory regulation, there must be voluntary self-regulation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: This does not only apply to the NGOs, but to all professions, callings and trades. Let them all go into self-regulation or accept compulsory statutory regulation.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I want to join those who have commended your Committee on a job well done. I also want to say that it is good that, reading through the report of the Committee, a number of stakeholders who appeared generally supported the Bill. Obviously, like any other Bill, normally, you will find that people will call for certain amendments. It is good that the Government, this time around, seems to be very open to amendments as long as the amendments are in good faith. It is my hope that some of the points being raised by hon. Members who are speaking, in terms of amendments, are being taken note of and the Government or Executive can come and make the necessary amendments where need be.

Madam Speaker, I only want to talk about two items on this Bill. The first one is the perception that when statutory bodies, public or private agencies, are created by an Act of Parliament, there is this new feeling that those that are in the Executive, for example, should not select the members of that board or, indeed, if they do select them, they should not select the chairperson of that board. I think it is important that we agree that those that are given the mandate to run the country for five years must be allowed to do so.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo:  Obviously, it is clear that, sometimes, those that are elected may even be wrong people and may not exercise that power correctly, but that is the price of democracy. This is why it is important that during the tenure of office of those who have been mandated, the public and those who vote must be looking at those people. When the time for the next election comes, that is the time to remove those people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, there seems to be a problem in this country. The problem is that when it is time to vote, people do not seem to know what they are voting for.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Now, during the course of the governance of those that have been elected, people want to change the goalposts for those who have been elected. I think when we vote, we must allow those we have voted for to rule us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: When they go wrong and the time for election comes, we must remove them.

Hon.  Members: Hear, hear

Mrs Masebo: I think that would be a fair deal.

Madam Speaker, this business of electing people and then you say they cannot exercise their powers, is creating confusion in this country. That is why I would like to suggest that when we vote, we must be thinking with our heads and not hearts. We cannot have it both ways. Therefore, the notion that the hon. Minister must form a board, but not decide on issues of that board or not have a say, to me, does not arise.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: If the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives forms a board, he has an interest because, first and foremost, it is his statutory power to be responsible for the administration of agriculture in the country for the next five years on behalf of the appointing authority. Therefore, you cannot, on one hand, give him that power and, on the other hand, not allow him to exercise the power.

Those who are elected or are in the Executive have the powers to make choices but, as I have said, some of them abuse that power. However, that cannot be the reason for suggesting that we should not give power to that person because there must be a leader for every function.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I think that is the bottom line. Otherwise, we would degenerate into anarchy. That is even why, in every country, the President, for example, shall have some reserve powers. Those discretionary powers are for the good of the people.

Mr Mulyata: Walanda bwino!

Mrs Masebo: They are supposed to be used in exceptional cases when there is something wanting.

Therefore, you cannot have a President or hon. Minister who has no powers even when things are bad. I have seen myself, from the little experience that I have had before, that, sometimes, at a certain level, there would be a big problem and somebody there may be so bad to the people that they have nowhere to go. If the law says they can appeal to the person at the top with those discretionary powers, they are assisted. Now, imagine if there is nobody. It means that those people are doomed to death.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Therefore, I think it is necessary for us to understand that it is necessary. The fact that one President, hon. Minister or Member of Parliament is bad, does not mean that we must now start messing around with the law. This is why there is too much confusion in the country.


Mrs Masebo: Therefore, we need order.

Madam Speaker, coming to this Bill, I notice that if you go to some districts, you will find that everybody is drilling boreholes.

Mr Magande: Nobody is maintaining them.

Mrs Masebo: Nobody is maintaining them, or knows what the right or the left hand is doing.

Mr V. Mwale: No HIV!

Mrs Masebo: When somebody says that those who want to drill boreholes should go and register with the local authority because they will tell you where they think the need is great, you cannot turn around and say we do not want to be controlled in our activities. If you mean well and have the same agenda to reduce poverty in the country, why should it be a problem? Is there a problem in allowing those that have been elected, who understand the problem or have the programme of planning which they were elected upon, to tell you that you as stakeholders, “Come and sit with us, this is the plan that we have, as a Government, and this is what we think, but there are these gaps, can you fill up these gaps?” If you really mean well, what would be the problem?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: You are not competing with anyone. You want to serve the public. What is the problem? I think all of us need to be clear.


Mrs Masebo: As I have said, the fact that you may have one individual who is arrogant, or who has no direction, does not mean that the laws must change. We do not look at individual faces. We look at systems. That is what we should be looking at as a country. That is why, when it is time to vote, we must not vote with our hearts, but our heads.

Madam Speaker, the last point that I wanted to address my mind to was the commencement order of this Bill. I notice that the hon. Minister is saying that when the Act comes into force, all those NGOs that are registered will be given ninety days to go and start registering again. I think that is poor administration. I would like to suggest an amendment that once the Bill comes into effect, all those that are legally registered should consider themselves registered according to the new law. For example, you cannot say that once the law comes into effect, everybody must go and start registering within ninety days.

Madam Speaker, like I said, those of us that have been given the power must use it for the good of our country. In fact, one of the problems we have is that when some people are given power, they do not understand that power is supposed to be used to build a bridge, get to people on the other side or see their view. That is what leadership is all about. However, some people think that when they become hon. Ministers or Vice-Presidents, it is time to ‘fix’ their enemies. I think that is a wrong way of using power.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: When you are given power, it is your time to convince those that think you are bad, or hold a different opinion, to buy into your idea because, in any case and on every issue, people will look at issues differently.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Do not spoil your debate.


Mrs Masebo: I can see …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House. Please, continue.

Mrs Masebo: I thank you, Madam Speaker. The hon. Minister of Education is telling me not spoil my debate.

Ms Siliya: Yes!

Mrs Masebo: I just want to tell those that are in the Executive to also understand that one of the reasons we have a problem is that those that are elected forget that they are elected to use that power for the good of the people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: That is why, sometimes, even with this Bill, which is straightforward, people are scared because they think it will be used against them. It is true that, sometimes, people begin to use things against people.

Mr Mulyata: It is just one person!

Mrs Masebo: Of course, it might just be one hon. Minister out of twenty-two and one Vice-President out of one …


Mrs Masebo: I am sorry Madam Speaker. I withdraw that statement.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Yes, withdraw that statement.

Mrs Masebo: Yes, I withdraw it since there is only one Office of the Vice-President. I meant to say it could only be one out of so many.

Madam Speaker, on a serious note, all I wanted to say is that this Bill is well intended and I think those that have the powers must use it for the good of those NGOs that are going to be registered. Those NGOs to be registered or regulated must also feel that it is for their good. Indeed, like one of the debaters said, there have to be regulations and order so that we all know what one is doing because we cannot have everybody doing everything in a country where there is a Government or organisation. Madam, even within the NGOs, themselves, I am sure that they are happy that they will regulate themselves. I hope we will not come here, on the Floor of this House, to quarrel among ourselves that this is what the NGOs have said, when they spoke against the Bill. We want the Executive to exhibit good leadership so that their people can support them and feel happy that these Bills are meant for the good of the people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Madam Speaker, this is a very good and progressive Bill. It is a fact that the NGOs raise their own money. This money comes from other countries where it is tax payers’ money.  As a Government, we have to use integrity, accountability and transparency in the way we use these funds. The same goes to all those who receive money from other tax payers. We are friends and we trust each other. Therefore, we must keep an eye on each other.


Mr Mulongoti: Therefore, if the NGOs would like to keep an eye on us, we will also be happy to keep an eye on them. That is the only way we can trust each other.

Madam Speaker, the NGO world is about helping to build democracy. We have NGOs which are composed of only family members.

Ms Lundwe: Tell them!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam, I do not know at what point they should account and to who. Unless there was a law or a regulation to make it imperative for them to do so, there is no motivation for them to account to anybody. After all, their families benefit from whatever they do.

Madam Speaker, therefore, it is imperative that they do a self regulation.  We have seen what has happened in the journalism world. We have been asking them to regulate themselves for years, but there has been resistance. Why should you resist to regulate yourself if you mean well? The same applies to the NGOs. We want them to come forward and tell us how they are going to regulate themselves as quickly as possible. There are so many NGOs in this country that they cannot even account for each other. Can anybody in this House tell me how many NGOs we have in this country?


Mr Mulongoti: They are plenty. If you cannot control people who come like that, it becomes very difficult. However, it is also evident that some of our colleagues in these NGOs are quite wealthy. Now, where is that wealth coming from? Are they saying that if you belong to an NGO, you, all of a sudden, become clever at amassing wealth which you cannot account to anybody? I think this is unfair. They should not say, “I am associated with these assets.” Instead, they must say, “this is mine.”

Madam Speaker, in the Committee Report, the Members are talking about a leader of an NGO who is claiming to be in association with an asset. There is no such a thing. In other words, they are saying that if an asset is under title of the wife, they are only associated, and yet the wife is not employment. It is the head of that house who is a member of an NGO who brings wealth in the house. As long it is registered in the wife’s name, they are just associated. This is not fair. Let all of us be accountable.

Madam Speaker, we also see NGOs that emerge seasonally. For instance, when you are just about to have elections, you will see so many NGOs emerging with agendas that cannot be placed anywhere. We cannot allow that. The genuine NGOs should be seen from January to December. When it is elections time, we will be able to account for them. We do not want those that just emerge and begin to gain spoiler and say that it is democractic. We do not want that kind of spoiler. We want a democracy that can be supported and identified by all.

Madam Speaker, in 2008, there was an NGO that came on the scene. It was a very malicious NGO...


Mr Mulongoti: …and it has since disappeared. We will not allow that. Hon. Minister, this is a very progressive Bill. One hon. Member mentioned that, maybe, we are afraid of exercising power. The five years we were given was intended to provide leadership. In this regard, we can only provide leadership by being firm, straight and having integrity. Those who say, the hon. Minister should not be seen targeting people are wrong because it is not him who should do that. If the law says enforce, that should be done. He is just a servant of the people. Therefore, when this progressive Bill passes, the question of registration should be followed. My sister mentioned that the registration becomes automatic. That is not possible. If you have a suit, others will not fit because they have different shapes.


Mr Mulongoti: You must begin to assess what sizes each one wears and that is the only way you can fit in the law.


Mr Mulongoti: Therefore, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister that he is not targeting anybody. It is just a law. If the law says that for you to register, you must be twenty, that should be implemented. If the law says that you cannot have a family NGO, that should be implemented and we will give you support. Therefore, do not be destructed by people like Hon. Muntanga.


Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister, who I thought was debating very well in order to bring me in his debate of innocent suits like mine? I was born big unlike him who is small.


Mr Muntanga: Is he in order to compare himself to me?


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister, in as far as comparing sizes is concerned, he is out of order because there is no agenda on size. He should talk about comparisons in line with the Bill.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for that guidance. I was only recognising the differences.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!


Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, as leaders, we declare our assets, every year, and our colleagues in the NGO world should do the same.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: It is only fair that way because you cannot eat cake and still have it. If you choose to be in leadership, you must be accountable as well. This is a wonderful day because we are passing a Bill that will enhance democracy and accountability. For those who would want to oppose this Bill, I will be a very sad person to know who you are…


Mr Mulongoti:…because at the end of the day…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Everybody here has the right to support or oppose. You may continue to give your views and persuade those who may have different views.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, to oppose a good Bill like this, surely,...

Mr Muntanga: Mpombo will come!

Mr Mulongoti: Leave the innocent man alone!


Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, this is a wonderful Bill. We support the hon. Minister in totality. I can even see so many members there (on the left side) supporting it although they are trying to interrupt my debate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! There are still many people that want to debate. Therefore, if you could be kind to time, raise your issues. You do not have to repeat issues several times. That way, many people may contribute.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-zhi): Madam Speaker,…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this important debate on the Non-Governmental Organisations Bill. 

Madam Speaker, I feel that this Bill is non-controversial and I stand to support it …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: …with a few observations.

Madam Speaker, having stated this, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to adhere to observations which have been pointed out by those who contributed on this Bill, particularly on the issue of time. It would be more helpful if the period of three years could be extended to five years.

Madam Speaker, this Bill should give us a reflection over the NGOs this country’s background of NGOs. Since 1991, the NGOs have assisted in the governance of this country. This is the time that the Oasis Forum was formed and everybody came up to try and give a good direction for this country. Those were good intentions.

Madam Speaker, we should agree and accept that, at times, these NGOs have been abused by some Government officials. Some NGOs have come up with projects which have ended up only in particular places where there are people of influence, particularly those in the Executive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, I hope that since we now have put legislation for these people to report to good bodies, we will all be able to make use of these NGOs for the good of the country. I think that this is important.

Madam Speaker, even those people who have formed NGOs have gone ahead to abuse their organisations. Some of them have kept the money from overseas and not given it out for the intended projects.  Some of them have formed groups and accused other sections of society of getting huge sums of money, which is the exact opposite. You will find an NGO with only six people who are all driving Mercedez Benz vehicles. This is the reality. With this Act, those organisations which are not genuine will go to sleep. This is critical.

Madam Speaker, in some of these organisations, there are workers who have no conditions of service. Some of them have worked for these organisations for five or ten years with no conditions of service and no benefits. This is a situation that is not helpful to anyone.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I would like thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate. I will try to be brief as per your guidance.

Madam Speaker, in its real conceptual sense, public life is not the sphere that is occupied by the state. It is the sphere outside the state. History tells us that there have been great men and women in this sphere, generally, referred to as philanthropists, people who had money, resources and capacity to give to other people and to assist the less privileged. That is how this sphere has historically emerged as a sphere of public life. Decent men and women in economy, politics and law were measured not so much by their achievements in those sectors, but also by their capacity to help other people.

Mr. Chilembo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: These were people with resources to give others.

Madam Speaker, in modern society, this sphere has now transformed. We have philanthropists who need to be given money in order to speak for other people.

Mr Chilembo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: They do not have something to give from themselves. They need somebody else to donate to them in order to donate to others.

Mr Chilembo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Therefore, it is a transformed sphere and because of that nature, there is need for systems of accountability because we are dealing with other people’s resources that are transported through these medium philanthropists who are in principle advocates.

 Madam Speaker, these too are decent men and women and most of them mean well. I would like to emphasise this as I support this Bill. Nevertheless, they are from a different form as history tells us. They are not men and women of resources that are transported from their own kindness given to others. There are a few exceptions. For example, there are some good lawyers who do legal work pro-bono…

Ms Lundwe: Aah!

Dr Kalumba:…helping those men and women who cannot defend themselves for a fee, gratis.


Dr Kalumba: Madam Speaker, let me say that this sphere of public life is also invested by others who do not want to work together in groups which are accountable, but they remain what, sometimes, others call non-governmental individuals (NGIs).

Mr Chilembo: Non-governmental Individuals!

Dr Kalumba: Correct! That is my good friend from Chama who uses the appropriate Chitumbuka English for that.


Dr Kalumba: These non-governmental individuals can become difficult in terms of looking at their accountability. How accountable are they and to whom, do they have boards or who are they answerable to?  In certain situations, there have been non-governmental individuals perpetually in perpetuity as others have seen.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: It is, therefore, important that this Bill stops these NGIs so that they also become accountable.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, in 1998, I was invited by the Swedish Government. We had a Swedish-Africa Partnership Meeting. The then President and Vice-President, Thabo Mbeki and Mohae respectively, at that time, were the only Government representatives.  I was hon.  Minister of Health.

We were completely overwhelmed by the number of NGOs and NGIs at that meeting who spoke so forcefully as if they were coming from Mars and not from Africa. Every word that was uttered by the majority of these NGIs, mainly, was critical of African governments. They were insulting and radical to the extreme point.

Hon. Government Member: Shame!

Dr Kalumba: Now, we all know that there are problems in African governments, but the best builders, really, are not the Swedes, but the Africans themselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalumba: Madam Speaker, where the NGOs and NGIs seem to behave as if they are constituencies and their theatre is Europe then we have a problem. We need to refocus these philanthropic acts. These well meaning men and women need to begin to think emicaly and not etically.

Mr Nkhata: Bauze!

Dr Kalumba: It is the emic-etic distinction I am bringing out here.

Ms Cifire: Translation!


Dr Kalumba: There is need for them to think locally. They need to begin to work with the institution of governance they have given themselves because they have an important role to play. However, they can only do so if they begin to identify with the institutions they want to create, build up or strengthen, but most of the time they want to please …

Ms Lundwe: The donors!

Dr Kalumba: … the outside. That is where the problem exists. I believe they have a significant role to play, but we need to have a paradigm shift as well in this sector. Therefore, this law will help to bring it about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, remember the rule of tedious repetition in the House. Unless you have a totally new point, there is no need to repeat the same issues of accountability that everybody has talked about. If you have something completely new, you can put it across briefly.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important Bill. The saying goes, “Do unto others as you would love them do unto you.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Today, we are going to put into practice what the NGOs have been preaching.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: They have always preached about accountability; …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … they have always preached against us, hon. Members, going for too many workshops; …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … and they have always preached that we have not stood for what we were elected for. This includes, I, as a Member of Parliament. Now, they must be seen to be accountable.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Hammer Matero!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Therefore, we must know the source of their income because that is what they ask of us to do. They want politicians and political parties to disclose their source of income. For this reason, we also want them to tell us their source income.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: We would also want to know how much they get because our salaries are disclosed in the newspapers everyday.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I am very happy that this Bill has come and I am supporting it.

Mr Nkhata: Thank you!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, one thing I want to bring out is that we have NGOs that are global. However, the way I understand the issue of regulation is that there can be an international NGO, but it must adapt to the local norms, traditions and culture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: It will not act in a vacuum.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: For example, since when has parading women naked been a culture in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Tell them!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I have seen NGOs that parade at courts and everywhere else supporting that. We must do what Zambians do. We are proud to be Zambians. What is taboo in Zambia, even if it is alright outside the country, we must not accept it. For this reason, we are going to regulate even the way they do things.

Mr Nkhata: Yes, boza siyako!


Mrs Sinyangwe: It is sad to learn that most of the NGOs claim to fight for women’s rights because they do not want men to abuse them. How right is it that the NGOs that are supposed to be supporting women’s right are now supporting abuse of women?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I do not understand.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The other point I wish to bring out, and I not want to repeat myself as Madam Speaker has guided against that, is that, NGOs should be more active in areas where they will help to reduce poverty. What do I see? I just see a lot of workshops for these NGOs. What do they get out of those workshops? How much do they spend on core issues such as giving money to women so that they do something to help themselves? We are not going to have NGOs that are just going to talk in town, but should also go to rural areas.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Sinyangwe: They should have houses in the rural areas and live there to help the women who need their help more than we need do.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: We have had them for a long time here and it is time we saw them move into the rural areas where they will be practical and effective.

My last point is that NGOs should help on governance and democratic issues. I have seen that some NGOs have turned political. If they want to be politicians, let them form political parties so that we can stand on the same platform.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, we would like NGOs to help by pointing out our mistakes. They must give constructive criticism. We should not be used by other people because we only have one country, Zambia, and if we destroy it, we have ourselves to blame. We may die tomorrow, but our children and grandchildren will remain in this country.

Madam Speaker, we should see to it that the NGOs spell out their objectives – what they stand for – so that we can see whether they are performing or not. They should also abide by their objectives and realise what they have come into being for.

Hon. Members: Hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I am glad that this Bill has come. We are supposed to be partners with the NGOs, but instead we have become rivals. When there is a Bill like this, they would like us to be their partners. However, in other instances, they say, “They are getting too much money. They should not get gratuity”. When it is in their favour, they would like us to support them. We must do that which is good all the time because what is good for us is good for them. With this Bill, we will be able to go out there and see how they are operating.

I thank you, Madam Speaker;

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Let us remember to focus on the Bill. It is tempting to be all over and talk about matters which are beyond the Bill and the report before us.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, I have been following the debate and I intend to be extremely brief.

Madam Speaker, in fully supporting this Bill, I have to say that it has been for a long time coming. Those of us who were in Government, at one time, such as Dr Katele Kalumba and I will recall that we have been trying to bring this Bill, but there has been a chorus of opposition to it. Some in the NGO sector felt that the Government had no business asking for the same things that they ask of the Government.

Madam Speaker, I believe that no man but God is infallible. Human beings, be it hon. Ministers, presidents, church leaders or leaders of NGOs can make mistakes. Those of us in the Government or in the Opposition do make mistakes, at times. That is why there is oversight and we accept to be criticised from outside.

      By the same token, those who lead these important institutions should know that they are important partners in development and governance and they can contribute to the affairs of the nation. They must also accept that they are human and they can make mistakes.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, for example, in the media there are those who believe that they are the alpha and omega and their word is final in everything.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: There is no such thing. Therefore, the beauty about this Bill is that it will help support those in NGOs who want to be responsible and observe good governance and democracy in these institutions, just as much as we, in the Government, would like to see democracy, good governance and ethical and professional conduct Therefore, this Bill has been a long time coming and I am glad it is here. In my view, there is nothing to fear about it. It will work well for those who want to operate according to the law. If there are problems as we go along, we can always come back and look at the Bill and try to improve it. After all, the process of legislation is one where we legislate, but because there are certain things we might not have foreseen, we can come back and amend the law.

Hon. Government Member: Yes.

Dr Machungwa: Therefore, there is nothing to fear and I am glad that this Bill is receiving the full support of the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kalomo, something new.

Mr Muntanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have finally managed to catch your eye. I am of the opinion that this Bill appears targeted at certain NGOs …

Hon. Government Members: Awe!

Mr Muntanga: … which are listening to the debate. A proper NGO does not need to be regulated by an Act.


Mr Muntanga: We have NGOs …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Muntanga: … such as Africare, Care International and World Vision International which have been doing their job.

Somehow, we have begun to think that certain organisations are not really non-governmental. Sometimes, I feel and believe that we, in the Government, should blame ourselves. This is because we encourage the formation of certain NGOs which are Government NGOs with an inclination towards …

Major Chizhyuka: To MMD or Mulongoti.

Mr Muntanga: … the leaders. We are now enacting a Bill for NGOs to be registered. This reminds me of the time we had the co-operative movement and realised that co-operatives must be controlled. We did not want them. When we wanted to register them, some leaders ended up forming pocket co-operatives which were registered. However, these co-operatives were under the control of the leaders.

As far as I am concerned, the majority of NGOs that are now mushrooming are not genuine because the real ones work sincerely without being bothered. There are certain organisations calling themselves NGOs and I think these are the ones which have been targeted with regard to registration. This is because many of them are not registered.

Madam, I am aware of some NGOs which are complaining that we, hon. Members of Parliament, have brought this Bill because we have realised that they are our competitors ...


Mr Muntanga: and, therefore, we want them to come out in the open.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: All I am saying is that we, the leaders, must desist from forming NGOs that we can control.

Major Chizhyuka: Certain executives.

Mrs Musokotwane: Or entice.

Mr Muntanga: We have seen certain executives do that. That is why you see NGOs emerge before and after elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Muntanga: Unknown people claim to have participated in the verification and monitoring of elections results. These people are from NGOs that are unregistered and …

Major Chizhyuka: Formed by the Government.

Mr Muntanga: … formed by the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: We should desist from doing that. As leaders, we must be sure and firm on what we want do. When we believe in what we are doing, we will not be ashamed or hesitant to do the right thing. Even the kind of suit I put on would not worry anybody.

Madam Speaker, I look forward to a time when hon. Ministers will be regulated so that they also regulate others properly. Perhaps we should put regulations for those in Government so that they are controlled. How can one sign for billions of Kwacha without asking what the money is? When some money goes missing, some people claim that is the normal way that the Government system operates. Someone was duped into sign for the misappropriation of public funds …

Major Chizhyuka: Yet they are there.

Mr Muntanga: … and yet the hon. Minister is still there. The Government now wants to regulate NGOs. That is why in the end, NGOs will start complaining about double standards.

Madam Speaker, that is why I was insisting that we should not form some NGOs. Nowadays, some NGOs are formed for the sole purpose of accessing certain funds that have been allocated for certain projects. An example of this is the mushrooming of anti-AIDS NGOs. Money was allocated to the National AIDS Council (NAC) for various projects, but was only accessible to NGOs. People have even realised that in order to get certain Government funding, one must have an NGO. Thus the problem that we have now is the mushrooming of NGOs. We should not encourage the formation of such NGOs.

Major Chizhyuka: Including Government churches.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, immediately a desk for churches was formed at State House, we had a countless number of churches in the country. This desk was under a presidential discretionary fund. This is the money that people start querying. We in the Government must first check ourselves.  A person who is not scared can even undress in public. However, once a person knows ….


Mr Muntanga: … that he or she has done something wrong, as is the case in of those who are in Government, they are even scared to talk about how they are doing certain things.

Madam Speaker, this Bill is intended for those organisations that do not want to register because they do not want to show people what they are doing. It is on that score that I support it.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: I support the Government’s call for NGOs to regulate themselves. I do not accept the regulation of others. I believe the people running NGOs are mature enough to regulate themselves. If we want other people to regulate themselves, we should also regulate ourselves properly. Hon. Ministers should also conduct themselves properly …


Mr Muntanga: … so that we avoid having non-governmental individuals who are former hon. Ministers. I have met a number of them. After leaving Government, they become leaders of certain NGOs. The best they know …

Mrs Musokotwane: Ama First Ladies.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, NGOs are formed by First ladies when they are at State House, one after another. Nobody knows what happens to these NGOs after the founders leave State House. Therefore, those in Government should learn to control themselves before they talk about controlling others.

Madam Speaker, I support the regulation of everybody including, hon. Ministers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, as you can see the House has supported this Bill. I did not even hear anybody asking for an amendment. However, as a listening Government, we will look at making a few adjustments to the Bill. In thanking the hon. Members, I want to say that only those who are guilty are afraid. If NGOs mean well, surely they should be able to register themselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: As for me, I will humbly execute the powers vested in me by the President.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 13th August, 2009.






Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 and 59 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!






The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1916 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 6th August, 2009.