DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 9th March, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ILLNESSES REFERRED TO UNIVERSITY TEACHING HOSPITAL

348. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Health why some serious cases of illnesses taken directly to the University Teaching Hospital were referred back to the referral clinics instead of attending to them.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Musonda): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that it was quite difficult to ascertain what seriousness meant because the hon. Member substituted it with critically ill. It is not true that critically ill patients directly referred to the University Teaching Hospital are sent back to the clinics without being attended to. The procedure is that doctors at the UTH Filter Clinic review and re-examine the patients after which a decision is reached.

However, critically ill patients may be sent back in certain instances such as:

(i)    terminally ill patients whose survival will not improve in hospital and, as such, require palliative care and this may occur in some cancer patients;
(ii)    when relatives request to have the patients treated elsewhere or at home; and

(iii)    when relatives opt for alternative health facilities other than UTH.

It should be noted that hospitals are meant to look after patients with optimal chances of survival and should not be places for patients to die.

I thank you, Sir.

ELECTRIFICATION OF SCHOOLS IN KALOMO CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY

349. Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central) asked the Minister of Education when the following schools in Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency would be electrified:

(i)    Dimbwe Basic;
(ii)    Dabali Basic;
(iii)    Siachitema Day High; and 
(iv)    Mayoba Basic.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the Government, in its annual infrastructure plans for the new school construction at high school, has included the electrification of schools where the national grid passes and has included the provision of generators where the national grid has not reached. The basic schools have been included in the Rural Electrification Programme and the following schools will benefit:

(i)    Dimbwe basic;
(ii)    Dabali Basic;
(iii)    Mayoba Basic; and
(iv)    Siachitema Day High.

However, I would like to inform the House that Siachitema Basic was electrified last week through the national grid. The Ministry of Education will complete this programme by providing resources to complete the wiring of the schools where such facilities are currently not available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am aware that Siachitema Day High has been connected to the national grid using the money that was contributed by the villagers, a local farmer and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). When will the other schools be electrified because the story of the Rural Electrification Programme has been going on for a long time?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that as soon as the Rural Electrification Programme starts, those schools will be electrified.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, electricity makes the teaching and learning environment conducive. Can the hon. Minister specify when electricity will be connected to these schools?

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, what needs to be appreciated is that we have a huge backlog of schools to electrify. Out of the 8,500 schools in the country, over 3,703 are not electrified. This is why, with the new high schools that we are constructing, we have made it a point in the ministry to provide resources for them to be electrified either by using generators or through the ZESCO Grid.

However, we have a number of schools that are already in existence and they are still not electrified but, working with the Rural Electrification Programme, we are planning for them every year. We are also providing resources for wiring because some of these schools were not even wired. We have provided resources for some schools to be wired so that they are connected to the national grid. In some areas, we are working with the Rural Electrification Programme to provide solar power. Therefore, I appreciate the concerns but I would like to inform the House that we have a programme in place and we will continue to dismantle the huge list of schools that are not electrified.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether there is any consideration to use wind vanes to generate electricity because they are cheaper than generators that she has mentioned. Is there any consideration that such wind vanes could be used to electrify schools which are not along the national grid?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, first of all, it is important to note that the Ministry of Education’s mandate is to construct schools and we work in collaboration with the Ministry of Energy and Water Development to provide power. 

Sir, I also wish to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central and his people for using their initiative to mobilise resources from the CDF and other sources to connect Siachitema to the ZESCO Grid. However, I am sure that the Ministry of Energy and Water Development will be willing to discuss all other possibilities to ensure that our schools are connected to the national grid and that other methods such as solar can also be used to provide power to schools. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that some of these schools are extremely far from the national grid. When will the Ministry of Education, in conjunction with the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, buy generators which they have never done?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, first of all, we need to correct the impression that the Government has never bought generators for schools. Currently, we have twenty grant-aided schools with generators and sixty-one Government schools that have generators. There are 443 Government schools with solar power and eighteen grant-aided schools where the Government has provided solar power. This is something that we are already considering. 

Sir, like I said, the only limitation is that we have a huge backlog. Therefore, while we are trying to work as quickly as possible, we have to wire some schools. We still need to provide resources for other schools, even if they may be close to the ZESCO grid, so that we can purchase poles to have the schools connected. We are also buying generators for high schools that we are constructing at the moment. If they are very far from the grid, we are providing generators.

I thank you, Sir.

TONNES OF EXPORTED MANGANESE

350. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a)    how many tonnes of manganese had been exported to other countries from Bahati Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    how much was collected as tax from these exports; and

(c)    who the exporters were.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, a total of 28,554 tonnes of manganese ore were exported to other countries from Bahati Parliamentary Constituency from January to November, 2009. 

Sir, during the period under review, a total of K99,693,436 was paid in taxes as follows:

Mineral Royalty    K16,268,441

Company tax    K83,424,885

Total            K99,693,436

Mr Speaker, the major exporters were:

(a)    Genesis Procurement Limited;

(b)    Kuanzhijie Mining Limited; 

(c)    Crux Resources on behalf of Luapula Base Metals; and

(d)    Sakeni Mining Limited and a few artisanal and small-scale miners with whom they have purchase agreements.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister state to this House how many miners of different expertise have so far been employed?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, that question will need a bit of research and, as of now, I do not have the right response.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, we have been told that K99,693,436 is what was realised in terms of tax and about K16,268,441 was Mineral Royalty Tax. What have the people of Bahati Constituency benefited from the manganese that has been mined and exported from that area?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, in terms of benefits, the hon. Member should be fully aware that there has been job creation for the people of Bahati Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, from K16,268,441 that was benefited from mineral royalties, how much was retained in Bahati Constituency as per the new law?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member who, at any opportunity, would like to raise that question and has been told a number of times on the Floor of this House that a system of retaining some of the mineral royalty in the areas where mining operations are being undertaken is yet to be operationalised. That is still the position.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, how effective has the ministry been in determining the value of this manganese export as a commodity and how is it exported without being processed?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, in terms of whether there is true declaration of the value of the manganese that is being exported, I would like to state that as in most businesses, we operate on trust. In this regard, the mineral royalty is based on how much the buyers of the commodity are able to pay.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, how often are these mines visited by the Mining Safety Department?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that the ministry is opening a mining bureau which will be based right in Mansa. This means that they will be right in the area where the operations are taking place.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ABOLISHED POSITIONS IN DISTRICT COUNCILS

352. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing why the positions of Legal Secretary and Social Secretary were abolished in district councils.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Muteteka): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that in the Third Republic, councils were reorganised and political party activities that were being performed by council officers were separated from local government matters. This meant the abolishment of certain positions that could not fit well in the new council structures. Thus, the positions of Political and Security secretaries were completely abolished and not replaced as indicated in the first schedule of Statutory Instrument No. 53 of 1992. 

However, the positions of Legal and Social Secretary, though abolished as indicated in the first schedule, were replaced by the positions of Director of Legal Services and Director of Housing and Social Services in the case of cities and municipalities. 

Sir, according to the first schedule of Statutory Instrument No. 53 of 1992, the following positions were abolished:

First Schedule

(a)    District Executive Secretary;

(b)    Political Secretary;

(c)     Administrative Secretary;

(d)    Development Secretary;

(e)    Financial Secretary;

(f)    Commercial and Industrial Secretary;

(g)    Security Secretary;

(h)    Social Secretary; and

(i)    Legal Secretary.

Mr Speaker, these positions were replaced by the creation of the following posts in the Second Schedule of part 1 of the same Statutory Instrument.

City and Municipal Councils

(a)    Town Clerk;

(b)    Director of Administration;

(c)    Director of Finance;

(d)    Director of Legal Services;

(e)    Director of Engineering;

(f)    Director of Housing and Social Services; 

(g)    Director of Public Health;

District Councils

(a)    Council Secretary;

(b)    Deputy Council Secretary;

(c)    District Treasurer; and

(d)    Director of Works.

Mr Speaker, in the spirit of decentralisation, the Government has developed a new organisational structure for councils (though in draft form) which will take into account the position of Director of Legal Services in district councils where it does not currently exist. The Director of Legal Services in district councils shall be the Chief Legal Advisor to the council and shall be responsible for all legal matters relating to the functions and operations of the council.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister state how soon this position will be created? 

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, as soon as we conclude the draft organisational structure for our local authorities, we shall implement it. At the moment, we are making necessary consultations so that we can conclude on how this structure will be, bearing in mind the inadequacy that is there with the absence of these two positions. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I would like to know when this Government will implement the Decentralisation Policy in the districts because it has been more than ten years since the plans were made and they are now gathering dust. 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is free to provide a bonus answer.

Laughter 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the bonus answer is that the decentralisation implementation plan (DIP) was approved by the Cabinet in December, 2009. At the moment, we are in the implementation mode of the Decentralisation Policy. The delay was necessary because we are moving cautiously in this implementation.  

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF BORDER POSTS IN MWINILUNGA EAST CONSTITUENCY

351. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when infrastructure would be constructed at the following border posts in Mwinilunga:

(i)    Kamapanda; and

(ii)    Kambimba.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that construction of a new border post at Kamapanda between Angola and the North-Western Province of Zambia is due to commence soon. The contract to construct an office block and three houses for the officers’ accommodation was awarded to Jaids Construction Company. All logistics have been put in place in readiness for the contractor to move on site. The contractor is scheduled to move on site towards the end of the first quarter of 2010. It is expected that works should be completed within a period of one year. 

Mr Speaker, the construction of a new border post at Kambimba between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the North-Western Province of Zambia has commenced. The contract to construct an office block and three residential houses for officers was awarded to Amis Construction Company. Logistics have been put in place and the constructor is scheduled to move on site towards the end of the first quarter of 2010. It is expected that works should be completed within a period of one year. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why it has taken the ministry such a long time to realise that it is important to have a fully-fledged border post at Kamapanda in order to promote trade between Angola and Zambia in the aftermath of the civil war in Angola.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, indeed, it has taken a bit of time. 

Sir, we approved K5 billion for the construction of six border points throughout the country in this House. However, after consultation with the constructor, we were informed that construction of one border post would cost approximately K5 billion. We could, therefore, not move as expected and decided to take another option which was to send the money to provincial administrations so that the local administrations could identify a reasonable contractor in terms of charges. 

This has worked out very well because activities are taking place at almost all the six posts. This has only been possible because we were able to identify local people who were relatively cheaper unlike getting people from Lusaka. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, can we learn from the hon. Minister how the movement of people from either side of the two countries is controlled in the absence of infrastructure at these border posts?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we have realised that it is important to put up this infrastructure and there have been temporal measures put in place in terms of monitoring. Our officers have been monitoring the movement of people. We do, however, realise that we need infrastructure so that the officers may have a permanent place from which they can operate. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, I really cannot understand how there is a figure in the budget which is not the same as what is obtaining on the ground. What was the basis of arriving at the K5 billion if an assessment was not done? Why allocate K5 billion for six border posts only to be told that it is, actually, K5 billion for one? On what basis was the budget figure arrived at?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, there was a tentative budget that was used. As usual, there was a problem regarding the preparation of the Bill of Quantities by some of our contractors. This is why we decided that this money could still be used to put up some structures if sent to provinces. Based on this, we are happy to report that, at least, the second option has worked out very well. The provincial administrations were able to use the money as budgeted to put up these structures.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

DISTRICT STATUS FOR MUMBEZHI

353. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the Government would grant Mumbezhi in the North-Western Province district status. 

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has no immediate plans to grant Mumbezhi area a district status. The House may wish to note that it is the intention of the Government to take development to the lowest level of a district at the right time and with matching resources. To achieve this, certain areas may have to be broken down into smaller and manageable units which may entail creating new districts. 

However, the Government will first have to satisfy itself that the earlier created districts are self-sufficient in terms of  human resources, infrastructure and revenue resource base before embarking on upgrading administrative centres into new districts. In this way, the Government will ensure proper transformation of administrative centres into well-organised districts. 

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to know that in addition to what has been mentioned above, the Government takes into account the following considerations before granting district status to an area:

(i)    population of that area; 
(ii)    the availability of infrastructure to house personnel for local authorities, Government and other institutions;
(iii)    the availability of social and hospitality infrastructure such as hotels, schools and hospitals; and
(iv)     the availability of revenue base.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the delay in creating a boma at Mumbezhi is due to the delay in the implementation of the Decentralisation Integrated Development Plan, which is still lying around at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the delay is not as a result of the delay in the implementation of what the hon. Member referred to as the Decentralisation Integrated Development plan. In this case, the cause to the delay has already been indicated. We are very cautious and want to ensure that those old districts that were created in the recent past are upgraded to the necessary level, particularly in terms of infrastructure and also human resource. The delay in the recognition of Mumbezhi as a district is not as a result of the Decentralisation Integrated Development Plan. An integrated development plan is there to capture all the social and economic activities in a particular area so that we execute our plans in an orderly manner. In terms of consideration, when we are satisfied with those that were created then, we can move to the new ones.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, a big mining town by the name of Lumwana is coming up in Mumbezhi area. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how this town is going to be managed in the absence of declaring it a district.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, for now, it is possible for it to be managed through the existing district or municipal council. As the infrastructure is being developed and the necessary human resource is developed and also put in place, once all the requirements for a district are fully developed, at an appropriate time, it is very easy to declare it a district because it will have met the necessary requirements.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, may I know what it takes, financially, to declare an area like Mumbezhi a district.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, part of the answer has already been indicated in the Deputy Minister’s response. We look at the population and the availability of infrastructure in that area. In this case, it could be offices for Government officials. We also have to look at social services such as schools, hospitality industry and so on. Once those are in place, it can be declared a district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABIILITATION OF KAOMA MAKASA RURAL HEALTTH CENTRES

354. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when the rehabilitation of Kaoma Makasa Rural Health Centre in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

(b)    how much money would be spent on the rehabilitation works; and

(c)    what had caused the delay in the rehabilitation of the health centre

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Musonda): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of Kaoma Makasa Rural Health Centre will commence this year, 2010, because it is in the Infrastructure Development Plan and its rehabilitation has been estimated at a cost of about K30 million. 

Mr Speaker, the inadequate funding to the health sector, especially in 2009 when it was supposed to be rehabilitated, is the reason it was not done last year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NUMBER OF IMPORTED VEHICLES THROUGH KAZUNGULA BORDER POST

355. Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a)    how many vehicles passed through the Kazungula Border Post in 2007 and 2008; and

(b)    how much revenue was raised from the vehicles.     

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that 3,871 vehicles in 2007, and 3,345 vehicles in 2008, entered the country through the Kazungula Border Post.

Sir, arising from the response above, total tax collection amounted to K42,504,062,433 in 2007, while K33,273,389,708 was raised in 2008.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if any of that money has been ploughed back into Kazungula District, especially at the border post. The fact is that most of the officers who are working and collecting this money do not have adequate accommodation.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, taxes collected by the republic, unless so specified, go to the general Treasury. The Treasury makes submission to this House about how these revenues have to be expended and this is how the money is divided.

Mr Speaker, in other words, we never target and say because this money has been collected from this area, therefore, it must remain there. For the time being, that is not the policy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, most of these vehicles coming through Kazungula Border are those that come through the Durban Port as imports to Zambia. I wish to find out from the hon. Minister what measures this Government has put in place as regards the law which was introduced in South Africa that imported vehicles through any of its ports are not allowed to drive on its roads hence, affecting the number of vehicles coming into the country through Kazungula and affecting other livelihoods and the revenue that Zambia is collecting through these vehicles. I would like to find from the hon. Minister what the Government has agreed upon with the  South African Government over this law which prohibits imported vehicles, especially those coming into Zambia, from driving on their roads.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as far as we understand the regulation which was made in South Africa to prohibit second-hand cars from being driven on the South African roads was meant to avoid the possibility of some of those vehicles disappearing in the South African system and, thereby, affecting the motor industry in South Africa. In other words, it was primarily a measure to ensure that the motor industry in South Africa is not adversely affected by imports from Japan.

As far as we are concerned, this is the measure the South Africans took to protect their economy and it does not really adversely affect us. Therefore, there was no issue to be dealt with.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how far he has gone in mobilising funds to construct a bring to take advantage this revenue potential at Kazungula Borders Post.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we have gone quite some distance and the feasibility studies have been completed. Very shortly, we should be fundraising for money for the bridge. There was some delay because at the last moment, we thought that it could be a good to redesign the bridge in such a way that, if necessary, in the future, we can also have a railway crossing without having to build a satellite bridge and so I believe that we have gone to some extent and, so far, a number of organisations have expressed interest in financing that. As to the specific period of time, I cannot say that right now.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, we have heard the answer given by the hon. Minister for a long time. How long does it take to design a bridge when we are raising a lot of revenue at this border post?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I said that the design work was originally done by the consulting engineer, but now it has been decided that, in addition to the road, we should provide for facilities for a rail crossing on the same bridge so that, in future, if a rail line is to be made there, there will be no need of creating another bridge. What is wrong with that? In my view, this is an excellent idea and I would be surprised that anyone would take issues with that.

Mr Speaker, this issue has not taken much time and the cause of the delay has been entirely separate and beyond the control of the Government because of the relationships which existed with other interested countries.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that it is not the policy of the Government to have some form of retention or procedures of retention of moneys collected and re-invested in an area of collection. This Government does encourage corporate social responsibility from corporate entities. I do appreciate that the Government is not a corporate entity, but it is collecting revenue from a certain point. What are they doing to lead by example that they can collect revenue from a certain place and be able to plough it back into that collection point to enable it improve its revenue collections?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the answer to the question was already provided. There is no policy like that, at the moment, and this means that every corner of this country can benefit from the revenue that is being collected, but this is an issue that may be considered at an appropriate time. However, for the time being, the policy is as I have described it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

EXPENSES FOR TRADITIONAL CEREMONIES

356. Mr D. Mwila (on behalf of Mr Kambwili) (Roan) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services how much money was spent on traditional ceremonies in 2007 and 2008.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Mufalali): Mr Speaker, the ministry spent a total of K193,000,000 in 2007 and K220,200,000 in 2008.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to know if the Government is considering increasing the amounts given to ceremonies.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, this year, the grants have been increased as follows:

Paramount Chiefs        K5,000,000
Senior Chiefs    K4,000,000
Ordinary Chiefs    K3,000,000.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to, first of all, thank the hon. Minister for indicating the level of support that the Government gives to these traditional ceremonies. However, will this Government, recognising the tremendous value that these ceremonies add to the revenues of this country, through tourism, consider increasing the support that these ceremonies get so that we have facilities such as toilets for tourists?

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, money will never be enough for any programme. What we provide is what our budget can afford. We wish we could do better but, with the available resources, that is what we can do.

Mr Speaker, I would like to request the associations and the subjects to try very hard to fund-raise for the ceremonies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that ceremonies are an integral part of our culture. What is the Government doing about minimising the politicisation of these events like what happened at the Ukusefya Pang’wena in Kasama?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Member, who is a politician, to avoid politicising these ceremonies. In fact, as a Government, we have noticed that the guest of honour, who is sometimes the Head of State or the Vice President, would arrive at a ceremony, only to be followed by a nonentity 

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … who will cause a lot of hullabaloo. It is important that we do not politicise these ceremonies.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I agree with you, hon. Member, that these ceremonies are there for us to safeguard, preserve and develop our culture and, as such, they should not be politicised.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, considering that only about K5,000,000 is given to each of the kingdoms, I would like the hon. Minister to shed more light on where the extra funding comes from because when you attend these functions, you can actually see that there is a lot taking place.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, for his information, most of the money comes from fund raising ventures and that is why I have made an appeal to the associations of those traditional ceremonies to scale up the fundraising so that the functions are attractive for locals and the tourists.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, there are a number of emerging traditional ceremonies in this country. Could the hon. Minister confirm whether all these ceremonies are registered with his office?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, most of the ceremonies which take place are registered. We have about seventy-seven registered ceremonies and we are still in the process of registering some more.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister using English words correctly by saying …

Laughter 

Mrs Musokotwane: … a nonentity can bring hullabaloo at a ceremony where such a person was invited by that traditional leader hosting that ceremony? Is he talking about a nonentity like me? Is he using the English words correctly?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, may I sincerely apologise to the hon. Member, if she has been hurt by the statement that I made earlier. Therefore, I would like to replace nonentity with somebody who is not significant.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to explain how an insignificant person can cause hullabaloo to the Executive.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, maybe, you should define or explain the meaning of the word hullabaloo.

Laughter 

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would say causing commotion. How do you cause that commotion? It is by whistling, blowing trumpets, horns, shouting, singing and coming very late when the procession is almost reaching its climax.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

PATIENT TO NURSE AND DOCTOR RATIO

357. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Health what the nurse/patient and doctor/patient ratios were as of 30th October, 2009 at the following hospitals in Mufulira District:

(a)    Kamuchanga;
(b)    Ronald Ross; and 
(c)    Malcolm Watson

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, the nurse/patient and Doctor to patient ratio at Kamuchanga, Ronald Ross ad Malcolm Watson hospitals on the Copperbelt are follows:

Hospital        Nurse/Patient Ratio        Doctor/Patient Ratio
Kamuchanga             1-18                1-98
Ronald Ross            1-8                1-11
Malcolm Watson        1-8                1-23

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s answer, I am surprised that his ratios indicate that Ronald Ross is better in as far as the doctors are concerned as compared to Malcom Watson. I would like to find out what this Government is doing to ensure that the people of Mufulira are availed with decent health care because the ratios at Ronald Ross are questionable.

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I wish to indicate to the hon. Member that the calculation of the patient/doctor ratio or patient/nurse ratio is dependent on many factors. If you look at Mufulira District, in comparison to other districts, it is even much better staffed in terms of doctors because there are three hospitals in this district. So, if you move away from the ratios, it will mean that Ronald Ross has about fifteen doctors and Kamuchanga has two doctors. That gives us a total of about seventeen doctors in a district and we are not strict with hospitals. Anyone is free to go to Kamuchanga or Ronald Ross hospitals, depending on the care the patient wants. There is an arrangement because at Kamuchanga there are only two doctors and so the doctors from Ronald Ross also do rounds at Kamuchanga Hospital.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I would like to believe that these hospitals are at the same level. Therefore, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister what criteria were used. What are some of the factors they used in arriving at this ratio and how do they affect other district hospitals such as Nchanga General Hospital where the ratio is very bad?

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I had mentioned that the ratio is just an indication of how many doctors we have compared to the number of patients that are seen. The ratio itself has so many factors that we are trying to address as a ministry. For example, one of the factors includes the number of medical schools producing doctors. We only have one and we have just announced that we are working hard to make sure that we have another medical school to produce more doctors next year. We have also talked about increasing the number of nurses by increasing the number of intakes in all the nursing schools. Last week, I mentioned how much we have moved in terms of building infrastructure to make sure that we have a lot of nurses this year. 

Mr Speaker, bed capacities and the number of doctors are the other factors we use to try and measure the doctor/patient ratio. As I have just explained, in Mufulira, there are more doctors because we are talking about eighteen doctors for three hospitals. Nchanga North Hospital has doctors and there are also three other health centres which have doctors and not nurses only. For example, Chawama and Kabundi clinics have two doctors each. Likewise, Chingola District has quite a sufficient number of doctors compared to other districts. So, really, the measure of the doctor/patient ratio is not a good indicator of looking at how many doctors per se attend to patients.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to come out clearly on how they arrived at, especially at Ronald Ross at a ratio of 1-8 ratio for nurses. How many nurses, at a given time, would he estimate attend to the patients in a ward?

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, it sounds a very complicated question, coming from a health professional. For a simple answer, we look at the total number of patients seen in a particular period compared to the number of health personnel who attended to those in question and then we are able to estimate how many patients a nurse must have attended to during that period. That is how we came up with the ratios that have been read out.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, from the ratios given by the hon. Minister, I would like to find out the wisdom in the Government deploying only two doctors to a densely populated area such as Kamuchanga.

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I have already explained that the establishment for Kamuchanga is two doctors. However, owing to the number of patients frequenting the health centre, doctors from Ronald Ross also assist in seeing the patients at Kamuchanga. So, it is not out of malice that the Government sends two doctors to a place that is highly populated. Sometimes, people choose to go to certain health centres and, as such, we also make adjustments by sending more personnel to these places to take care of them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that Kamuchanga has an establishment of two doctors. Is this the full establishment or, maybe, there are only two doctors in post? 

Secondly, why should Ronald Ross and Kamuchanga have different numbers of doctors when they are both Government hospitals? Can the hon. Minister explain this disparity where there are so many doctors at one hospital, maybe, because it is in a high cost area, and only two doctors are sent to a hospital in a township?

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that the Ministry of Health is undergoing restructuring that has reached an advanced stage. This includes ensuring that we equate health facilities to the number of need them in order to give optimum care to patients. So, Kamuchanga is one of the hospitals that we are looking at. We are looking at how many people go there for treatment and the number of professionals required to handle the influx of patients. 

So, the ministry has noted the disparity mentioned by the hon. Member. However, it is one of the things being corrected through the on-going restructuring in the Ministry of Health.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, Malcolm Watson is a restricted hospital, so to say, to mine employees and Ronald Ross is for the general populace of Mufulira. I would like to know which of the two hospitals has more patients according to the doctor/patient ratios that the hon. Minister has given.

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I think I mentioned that the doctor/patient ratio for Ronald Ross is 1/11 whilst for Malcom Watson it is 1/23. This clearly shows that there are more doctors at the Government hospital than at the private one. I think it is quite clear.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that, in fact, Kamuchanga Hospital is a first level referral hospital while Ronald Ross is a second level referral hospital, thus the disparity?

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I am not sure what he means by disparity. The question is quite vague. Maybe, the hon. Member can explain that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, Kamuchanga is actually at the heart of Mufulira Constituency. If the hon. Minister were a lawyer, I would have called him a learned lawyer. I am wondering why a highly qualified medical doctor such as the hon. Minister would trivialise a ratio and say that it is not reliable. At the same time, he told us that there is an on-going restructuring exercise in the ministry which will be based on population of an area against the number of doctors sent there. This, again, boils down to ratios. 

So really, on what basis is the ministry going to give us doctors? The hon. Minister has actually not answered the hon. Member for Luapula’s question on what is the actual capacity in terms of establishment and not what we have on the ground. The ratios are showing us that there are more patients going to these hospitals than are being met by doctors. So what is a ratio for if it is insignificant for purposes of restructuring as well as making a decision?

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, the doctor/patient ratios for 2006 are as read out by the hon. Deputy Minister. It is a fact that we do not have enough doctors in the country. It is not just in Mufulira where the ratios are like this. We have a very critical shortage of doctors in the whole country. On average, we have twelve doctors per 100,000 people. That is quite a bad ratio. 

So the ratios given out, today, are the ones obtaining in Mufulira. The hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that Mufulira, bad as it might look, is even better off than other districts. He also said that in trying to improve upon this, we are now considering starting a school of medicine in Ndola next year. Hopefully, this means that in a short time of, maybe, four years or so, we can have an increase in the number of doctors in the country.

As regards the hospital that has an establishment of two doctors only, we have just learnt about this and we would like to obviously review this establishment and bring it to the level where it is supposed to be, that is a first level hospital. All the three hospitals in Mufulira are supposed be first level hospitals. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I once worked at Kamuchanga Hospital. Most patients are seen by nurses, clinical officers and other health personnel at health centres before they are referred to the hospital. This is not by design, but the mere fact that doctors are in short supply. Could it be the reason the doctor/patient ratio looks quite “reasonable”? Other than that, it is actually a good ratio.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is good that the question is coming from an hon. Member who once worked at Kamuchanga Hospital. It is also good to hear that he considers these ratios as good. It is a fact that we are comparing the doctor/patient and nurse/patient ratios and are not mixing the two. However, I would like the hon. Member to know that we are actually seriously looking at allowing nurses to prescribe medication. This happens in other countries and even here, in certain clinics where there are no doctors, nurses actually make prescribe medication.

So, we are considering changing their job description so that cases that are not very serious do not have to be attended to by a doctor.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

REHABILITATION OF ROADS IN KANTANSHI CONSTITUENCY

358. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Government would rehabilitate the following roads in Kantanshi Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    David Kaunda;

(b)    Changa Changa;

(c)    Cha Cha Cha; and

(d)    Accra.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, in 2008, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), planned for the rehabilitation of the following roads in Mufulira:

(i)    Cha Cha Cha, approximately half a kilometre;
(ii)    Changa Changa, approximately 2.7 kilometres;
(iii)    David Kaunda, approximately 1.3 kilometres; and 
(iv)    Accra Road.

However, the funds allocated in 2009 Budget were not adequate to cover these projects. The 2010 Annual Work Plan has prioritised the completion of all on-going projects. The Mufulira Municipal Council should continue to prioritise the roads and attempt to work on the roads using their annual budget. New projects can only be carried out in 2011, subject to the availability of funds, making it difficult to indicate when the roads will be attended to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that Changa Changa Road leads to Ronald Ross Hospital while Accra Road leads to Malcolm Watson Hospital? 

I would also like to find out whether he is aware that if these roads are not repaired they will be compromising the health and lives of the people of Mufulira. When is this Government going to be serious enough by ensuring that the roads are rehabilitated rather than just giving promises to the people of Mufulira every time?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, Mufulira Municipal Council also has priorities and I hope that the roads are some of its priorities. If the roads are as important as the hon. Member says, why have they been ignored all these years?

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, in addition to the roads mentioned by the hon. Member for Kantanshi, I can also confirm that, on the Copperbelt, where I was at the week-end on national duties, …

Laughter

Mr Milupi: … the roads are in a terrible state, especially in the townships, including the so-called high cost areas. Could this Government consider doing what they did in 1992 upon assuming power when they sourced separate funding for the rehabilitation of roads in the townships or have they run out of steam?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, only a few days ago, the hon. Acting Minister of Finance and National Planning laboured on the Floor of this House to explain the issue of raising funds for projects and, today, we are being asked whether we have run out of steam to raise funding. Let us be consistent. As a Government, we are committed to developing this country.

There has been a lot of damage to the Zambian roads for a long time, resulting in a mess. Therefore, it will not be possible for anybody to wake up, today, and say, “I am going to repair all of the roads …

Hon. Government Members: Ninety Days!

Mr Mulongoti: … in ninety days”. 

During the Zambia Association of Chambers of Commerce and Industry (ZACCI) breakfast, I mentioned that in five years time, we will need a sum of US$500 million to attend to all these roads in the townships and many other places. Please, understand that we are very committed to developing this country and more so that we have the 2011 Vision.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, last time I indicated to this House that I visited the mine at Mopani Copper Mines in Mufulira. I would like to find out if the hon. Minister has made an effort to try and persuade Mopani Copper Mines to work on certain roads in Mufulira.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the hon. Member’s concern over the roads in Mufulira. However, as hon. Member for that area, I am sure he has the same responsibilities as myself in approaching Mopani Copper Mines to discuss how they can tackle the issue of infrastructure. I think they would be amenable to him as opposed to leaving it to me alone.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, just to follow up the hon. Minister’s frequent answer to the effect that councils should be taking care of roads, does he agree with me, in my reading of the Roads Act, that the responsibility for urban roads and, in fact, all the district roads, has been taken away from councils and given to the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA) and that the decision-making regarding priorities has been given to the Road Development Agency (RDA) or not because I think we are playing to the gallery?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, laws are never read in isolation. The RDA has appointed all councils as road authorities. We cannot be asking for decentralisation which, in a way, gives authority to councils and, at the same time, insisting, again, that the same power must go back to the RDA. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, much as we appreciate that councils are road agents, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the RDA and the councils have sat down to engage residents in these areas to take full responsibility, as citizens, and assist, in some way, in having the roads worked on.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the RDA is composed of technocrats and, therefore, mobilisation of the community to participate is the responsibility of the hon. Members of Parliament and councillors. As soon as they are ready, they can invite the community to discussions and the RDA staff will be ready to join them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, from the answer that the hon. Minister has given, I get the impression that he thinks that all the roads are in the same state. Some of the roads are in a very bad state of disrepair.

Why does the hon. Minister or his Government have to wait until certain roads of great importance like the Great North Road, for example, reach such a bad state of degeneration for him to rush to put in interim measures?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we have 67,000 kilometres of road network and it is this House which apportions money for roads. When the roads are deteriorating because Parliament has not apportioned money to be used on roads, it becomes difficult. 

Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Members to spend time as we are apportion money in this House to seriously participate so that at the end of the day, priority roads are taken care of as opposed to condemning the efforts we are making in trying to mitigate the problems that we have. Some of the roads we have are gravel roads and they are washed away during the rainy season and we have to rebuild them every year. When the major roads begin to open up, it is because of pressure. If you count the number of trucks that use the Great North Road, you will understand that what we need more are railway lines and most of the importers prefer to use road transport for the simple reason that the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) has not been able to perform. The TAZARA is an asset. I think we have to find serious measures to help repair TAZARA so that it can take off the bulk of the cargo from the road sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, councils, of late, have been failing to tick in terms of road rehabilitation. Is the hon. Minister not considering reintroducing the Roads Department?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, councils have departments responsible for infrastructure rehabilitation. Now, if they are failing to tick, I do not think that is the fault of the Road Development Agency (RDA) or my ministry. It is the responsibility of the supervisors of those councils who are part of the people who are sitting here. If there is a problem in the management of the council by a town or council clerk, engineer or whatever you call him, you have to take measures to find a new engineer and reinforce the structures that are in the department so that they can begin to deliver. The issue of waiting until we create camps to be able to do the roads is not on. This is why we are talking about decentralisation. It is to give power to the people and you are the leaders who must ensure that the people you engage in your councils are able to deliver to the satisfaction of the communities. The issue of raising funds and engaging people who can support you, either through the donor community or business community, is your responsibility. If you see the council not ticking, do not come to the Ministry of Works and Supply to ask for help in order for the councils to tick.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, why is it that the Government will wait until 67,000 kilometres of roads are in a bad state instead of looking for money to do the road network now as they go bad?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, as we sit here, the roads are being pounded by heavy trucks carrying cargo. At no time do those roads go to sleep. We have traffic moving on those roads on a daily basis, but it is also an acknowledged fact, from this House as well, that we are a developing country. We do not have sufficient resources to attend to them on a daily basis. We attend to those roads we can manage in the hope that those others will hold until such a time that we have resources. It is expecting too much of us to repair the 67,000 kilometres of road network all at once. In fact, what must be accepted is that we have tried our best. We are not the worst.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should not talk about the money required to do the roads because it is completely a pipe dream. Most of these roads, particularly in the townships...

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is debating. Can you ask your question?

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, when will the Government come up with simple methods of dealing with the roads particularly in the townships which just need to be graded and compacted because the tar is completely not there? We will never manage to tar those roads.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for what the hon. Member has said. In fact, he did give me an example when I visited Itezhi-tezhi. He had started doing the road from Itezhi-tezhi coming towards the Mongu Road, using initiative. This is what I am talking about. What has happened to that initiative, hon. Member of Parliament? Why do you not invite some of your colleagues to show them how it can be done?

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, how much money has the Government given through the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA) for the councils to particularly repair the roads? I ask this question because the hon. Minister told us that councils are agents. Now, an agent will not do anything if he is not empowered by the principal with the resources. How much money have these councils received in order to carry out the agent’s role on their behalf because, at the end of the day, it is through you? Is that the meaning of decentralisation, appointing agents and creating positions without empowering them with the necessary funds?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for what he has said.

Hon. Members: She!

Mr Mulongoti: I am grateful for what she has said, I am sorry. Yesterday was Women’s Day, my apologies. 

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: The NRFA is a custodian of money that you apportion to it through appropriation in this House. When you pass a budget, you do not pass any money for your roads and, in the middle of the year, you expect, all of a sudden, money to come from somewhere. The budgeting process is on. I am sure it has started by now. The planning is bottom up. If you do not participate in that planning stage, do not go to the NRFA and look for money because it will be you in this House who will have approved the budget for the year. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning circulates information to the public that the planning process has started. We should all participate, but hon. Members ignore the exercise and think that the exercise is for others. Please, participate so that we see these figures in the Yellow Book for your areas and so that when you stand up to ask questions and refer to the Yellow Book, you will have justification in saying for my council, you prioritised my roads. If there is no money, we will be able to tell you why there is no money. At the end of the day, do not ask the NRFA to give you money. The NRFA gives money that is budgeted for in the Yellow Book. If you did not apportion it, tough luck.

Thank you, Sir.

NUMBER OF ZAMBIANS ARRESTED IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES

359. Mr D. Mwila (on behalf of Mr Kambwili) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs how many Zambians were serving prison sentences outside Zambia in 2008 and 2009, and in which countries.

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Professor Phiri): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform this august House that a total number of 163 Zambian nationals were serving prison sentences in foreign countries for various offences ranging from drug trafficking, theft, shoplifting, …

Laughter

Professor Phiri: … illegal entry or stay, rape and murder, just to mention but a few.

The breakdown of these prisoners, by continents and country by country is as follows:

    CONTINENT    COUNTRY    2008    2009

        Africa    Tanzania    02    -
            Botswana    05    01
            Zimbabwe    14    -
            Malawi    05    01
            Mozambique    -    02
            South Africa    02    03
            Namibia    01    11
            Mauritius    -    04

    Subtotal        29    22

        America    Brazil    01    -
            USA    06    45
            Subtotal    07    45

        Europe    Germany    -    01
            UK    07    15
            Italy     01    -

        Subtotal    08    16

        Asia    China    05    09
            India    01    11
            Malaysia    -    01
            Pakistan    04    -
            Singapore    01    -
            Australia    -    03
            Subtotal    11    24

    Other countries    Dubai    01    -
    Subtotal        01    -

        Total        56    107

        Grand Total            163    
        
Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister inform the House whether the Government has tried to engage countries where Zambians have been serving their sentences so that they are brought back home to serve their sentences in our country?

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Pande): Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that the Government through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs makes an effort to ensure that Zambians in prisons abroad can come and serve their sentences here and we have succeeded in some of these countries. For instance, in Mauritius, there were two ladies who were serving a fifteen-year term for drug trafficking, but they are now in Lusaka. We have also managed to do the same in Tanzania where two Zambians were arrested and one of them was imprisoned for fifteen and another one for two years, but they are now back in the country. We are also negotiating with other countries such as China where you have been reading about the sentencing of two Zambians, to death, for drug trafficking. We are still negotiating with the Chinese Government and, so far, the assurance is that they will not be executed until after two years from the date of their conviction which is a starting point, but we are still talking to them. Sir, in short, the Government does negotiate to help these Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, out of the total number, may I know how many of those prisoners are female?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I will not give the number, but I will give the percentage. I would like to inform the House that 75 per cent are females.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what has led to an increase in the number of prisoners serving abroad in 2009 as compared to 2008.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I do not have an answer, but it is the people who committed offences who should know better.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Probably, it means that we had more Zambians committing offences in 2009 than in 2008. As a ministry, each time we travel, we sensitise Zambians to observe the laws of the countries where they are residing or visiting.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs state what the predominate crime people commit out side Zambia.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, if we go by the figures, you will notice that, first of all, most of the people who were arrested in the United Kingdom and United States of America is were arrested because of illegal stay.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, in the USA, the convicts in 2008 were six, but the number dramatically increased to forty-five. Why did the number increase so dramatically from six to forty-five in one year?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, it is mainly because of illegal entry and overstaying in the USA just as indicated by the hon. Deputy Minister when he was reading out the answer. For example, in New York, in 2008, three people were convicted and, in 2009, the number increased to twenty-two. In Washington DC, in 2008, three Zambians were convicted and, in 2009, the number increased to twenty-three giving us a total of forty-five.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the efforts that the Government is making to bring our colleagues back home so that they can come and serve their sentences in Zambia. Does the Government realise that some of the prisons abroad are better than the prisons in our country and it may be better for them to stay there, in a good environment?

Laughter

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, we should not forget the issue of emotions. I think it is better to be incarcerated at home than in a foreign land. That is why they say it is better to be under a tree than to be a scrounger in USA.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

MONEY RAISED BY THE LUSAKA CITY COUNCIL

360. Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how much money the Lusaka City Council realised from property rates between January and December, 2008; and 

(b)    how the money realised was utilised.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, in response to the question raised by Hon. Chintonge, …

Laughter

Mr Muteteka: …I wish to inform this august House that Lusaka City Council (LCC) realised K14,279,019,097 in 2008 on account of rates.

Mr Speaker, the utilisation of the funds realised from the property rates is as indicated below: 
    
Name of Statutory Body    Amount paid (k)

Statutory Contributions

Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF)    970,629,000

National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA)    156,109,000

Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU)     10,000,000 
    
Sub Total                        1,136,738,000

Revaluation Exercise

Valuation Allowances    435,234,000

Goods and Services                    228,707,000

Sub Total                         663,941,000

Adverts and Subscriptions
Agriculture Show Society                15,575,000
        
Zambia Daily Mail                    40,035,000

Post Newspapers                    24,998,000

Sub Total                        80,608,000

Utility Bills 

Zamtel                         180,001,000.

Sub Total                        180,001,000

Motor Policy Insurance

Zambia State Insurance Corporation        360,385,000

Sub Total                        360,385,000

Salaries and Wages

Salaries and Wages                           7,880,450,630

Wages for Casual Workers                479,549,640

Sub Total        8,360,000,270

Cholera Prevention Activities

Drilling of boreholes at Ibex        550,000,000

Sub Total                        600,000,000

Operation Costs for Rates Administration        671,814,000

Loan repayments for revaluation exercise        392,426,000

Sub Total                        1,064,240,000

Grand Total    12,265,909,270

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to know that the balance of K2,013,109,827 was carried over to the 2009 Financial Year as cash balance carried forward from the 2008 Financial Year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chitonge: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to correct the hon. Minister that I am not Chintonge, but Chitonge.

Laughter

Mr Chitonge: Mr Speaker, are there any plans to review these property rates this year?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, currently, the LCC is working on its valuation roll which will capture these particular rates.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the amount of money that the hon. Minister says was realised from rates, at K14,279,019,097 means that the ratable value for Lusaka is K1.4 trillion at 1 per cent, which is roughly K280 billion. What does the hon. Minister think should be the correct value for Lusaka for rates purposes?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I do not have that particular figure. Once we have the details after the preparation of the valuation rolls, I am sure we can have the actual figure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, many Zambians have heard that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that most people have heard that the LCC, besides other huge revenues, makes K14,279,019,097 through property rates. How come, with such huge sums of money, we have floods and potholed roads in this city? Where does this money go? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I have also been asking the same question.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, just to illustrate the point, let me use the break down that the hon. Deputy Minister indicated. I will just use one angle on the submission. You will find that statutory contributions, revaluation exercises, advertisements and subscriptions, utility bills, motor policy insurance, salaries and wages and operational costs for rates administration are all internal and not external expenses. However, cholera prevention activities are, at least, external because they look at the members of the public. Thus, most expenditure lines are internal and that is why, as a ministry, we have been challenging the councils to ensure that they provide the necessary services to the community to improve on this case study that I have before me.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

GOVERNMENT EXPENSE ON TRAINING MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS

361. Mr Chitonge asked the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training:

(a)    what the average cost of training each of the following professionals at Government training institutions currently was:

(i)    medical doctor;

(ii)    pharmacist;

(iii)    biomedical staff;

(iv)    environmental health specialist; and

(v)    radiographer; and

(b)     how many of the professionals above were working in Zambia.

The Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Musosha): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training is responsible for training in four of the five programmes listed above. These are offered at Evelyn Hone College. The college offers Diploma courses in biomedical sciences, …

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are not listening.

Hon. Minister, you may continue. 

Mr Musosha: …pharmacy, radiography and environmental health. All these are courses are for a duration of three years. 

Mr Speaker, the cost of training is dependent on the course. Therefore, for a student training at Evelyn Hone College, the average annual cost of training, including tuition fees, accommodation, training materials and examination fees is as follows:

    Training student                 Cost (K)

    Pharmacy Technologist            8,320,976.00

    Biomedical Scientist            8,320,976.00

    Environmental Health Specialist        8,200,976.00

    Radiographer                8,368,976.00

Mr Speaker, medical doctors and pharmacists are not trained by institutions under the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training, but by the University of Zambia (UNZA) under the Ministry of Education. Nevertheless, according to the information from the Academic Office at UNZA, a medical doctor pays an average cost of training amounting to K7,500,000.00 per year in tuition fees only. This, however, is not a reflection of the true cost of training a medical doctor as these fees are heavily subsidised. 

Mr Speaker, the following figures are based on employees working in the public and private sector as of December, 2009.

Employee                    Public         Private        Total     

Medical Laboratory Technician             526        472        998

Pharmacy Technologist                306        162        468

Environmental Health Technologist        1110        8        1118

Environmental Health Officer            346        0        346

Radiographer                    226        122        348

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chitonge: Mr Speaker, why is it that most of these professionals trained with huge sums of taxpayers’ money are allowed to leave Zambia even before they serve for two years? 

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, most of the graduates from our institutions are supposed to be bonded. However, there are still difficulties in this area.

Mr Speaker, the second issue arises out of the fact that when this bonding facility is not that firm, there is free circulation of professionals in the region and beyond. To some extent, it is an issue of balancing in terms of brain circulation. It puts us at a disadvantage even though, economically, it is known that some countries benefit a lot more from remittances from their professionals working abroad. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether his ministry has a programme for retention similar to the one developed under the Ministry of Health. If not, are there any plans to put in place such a programme? 

Furthermore, the hon. Minister justified the fact that graduates that are bonded are somehow allowed to go and work outside the country by saying that we are gaining remittances. I thought that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Ask your question.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, how much of these remittances are we gaining in comparison to how much we are spending on these doctors?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we are a training institution. The example I gave about other countries gaining from remittances is with respect to the employers. I am not an employer. Therefore, that question is supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Health. We produce these required skills in order to be deployed in public institutions, predominantly the Ministry of Health, and the private sector. The example I gave about remittances was that other countries do gain from this kind of brain circulation. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why technical institutions like Northern Technical College (NORTEC) are on the higher side, in terms of fees, than Evelyn Hone College. 

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that science and engineering-based institutions offering skills training are more expensive than arts-based institutions. NORTEC is more engineering related, therefore, requiring expensive equipment and various experiments. This is the reason there are these discrepancies. In fact, even within Evelyn Hone College, where we offer thirty-nine programmes, there are differences in fees for different programmes. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister what the loose ends or loopholes are in the bonding system. I am sure the nation would also love to be educated or enlightened on the basis of facts and not assumptions as to which countries are benefiting from the arrangement that he talked about. We would really love to know and not assume that there are some countries benefiting from these remittances.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, just to emphasise the point, I was giving an example of countries that continue to benefit from brain circulation rather than brain drain. Ghana and the Philippines are some of the countries we know about.

Mr Speaker, my ministry is a training institution offering skills training. The question of loopholes that the hon. Member for Mufulira referred to is supposed to be directed to the employers. My ministry just produces. Clearly, from general knowledge, these loopholes arise from the lack of data and follow up of the newly recruited graduates. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why, for instance, the Ministry of Health is finding problems in bonding graduates when, in fact, every medical personnel, who wants to migrate to another country, has to get clearance from the Medical Council and the Nursing Council before he or she can be accepted anywhere in the world. What is the problem?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the issue of bonding needs two parties. The first is the graduate and the second is the employer. When the mind is set not to appreciate the contribution by the taxpayers for providing the necessary training, then one sees the flouting of this arrangement. Having recognised this weakness, the Ministry of Education, together with the Ministry of Health, have been working out a tracer system where we will be able to trace our graduates in terms of where they go, what they are doing and if they have to apply for post-graduate training.

I thank you, Mr Spekaer.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with the hon. Minister that his ministry is training and not employing. Is the ministry not worried by spending so much money for training these people and when they go to the employing ministry, they disappear into other countries? Should the ministry also not talk to the other ministries that are receiving these trained personnel so that his ministry does not spend money on people who are not going to work in this country?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I wish my sister was listening. I would like to agree with her that we are concerned. This is the reason I talked of the tracer system in my sister ministries. It is our concern and I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola is aware of this concern. We talk to each other so that, in our planning phases, we get the maximum benefit out of the taxpayers’ money.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MONEY RAISED FROM STRATEGIC FUEL RESERVE FUND

362. Mr Muntanga asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    how much money had been raised from the K152 per litre charged from 2005 to date for strategic fuel reserves;

(b)    how much fuel had been purchased from the strategic fuel reserve fund as strategic fuel reserves;

(c)    when the target of the 90-day strategic fuel reserves would be attained; and

(d)    why the Strategic Fuel Reserve Fund was not utilised to resolve the fuel crisis experienced in October/November, 2009 as was intended in the original objective in 2005.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Imasiku): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that a total of K184,048,438,009 was collected from the strategic petroleum reserves cost line since it was started in 2005. The breakdown of the funds collected since inception is as follows:

    Year            Amount 
        
2005    K4,226,025,281

2006    K65,694,589,162

2007    K74,808,213,741

2008    K18,645,239,171
2009    K20,674,370,654

Mr Speaker, the Government has not been able to purchase strategic stocks from the Strategic Fuel Reserve Fund. However, approximately US$2 million was provided by the Government between 2008 and 2009 from the Strategic Fuel Reserves Fund for the completion of a forty million-litre diesel tank at Bwana Mkubwa in Ndola. The tank was completed in the third quarter of 2009 and will be used for storing strategic diesel stocks.

Mr Speaker, 90 days strategic fuel reserves will only be attained in the next five to ten years due to the huge financial resources required to put in place the necessary storage. The Government’s focus for the medium term (two to three years) is to consolidate storage space to be able to hold, at least, thirty days of strategic stocks for all the products.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the fuel challenges experienced in October/November 2009 were as a result of the shutdown of the refinery. It should be noted that the refinery had to shut down earlier than was anticipated due to the faster degeneration of a plant component responsible for the production of petrol. This made it difficult to accumulate sufficient stocks for all the products to be partly used during the period of the shutdown for maintenance. On the other hand, in normal circumstances, a minimum period of thirty days is required to put in place contingency measures before imports of finished petroleum products start flowing into the country. Due to the earlier shutdown of the refinery than planned, it was not possible for imported products to land into the country at the time they were required.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to know what happened to the actual money collected. At the time this idea was mooted, we were told that it would take five years to attain the ninety-day reserve and that they needed K500 billion which was K152 per litre. The collections started dropping when there was no seriousness in collecting the levy.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the follow-up question?

Mr Muntanga: What happened with the K184 billion which was collected and has all the collected levy been used for its intended purpose?

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, the money which was collected stabilised the prices of fuel.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the money is not being used for its intended purpose. Is the Government thinking of squashing off the K152 per litre fuel levy so that prices of fuel can go down?

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I am sure this House has been crying for uniform pricing, hence our putting up strategic reserves. In the long run, this money will be used for that purpose. Currently, the money is being used for stabilising the prices of which we are already aware. The idea of squashing off that levy cannot come now.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, if I followed the hon. Minister correctly, his figures were rising until 2007 when we had K74 billion and then it dropped to K18 billion plus.

I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why there is that drop.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that concern. When you look at this data and do not have the correct information, you get concerned. In 2008, the Government reviewed the levying of diesel and, at the moment, we are just levying petrol and that is why there is a drop.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about uniform pricing and this House, for the last four years, has been told how the Government intends to introduce uniform pricing. When is the Government finally going to do that so that the people in the rural areas can also have some relief?

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I suspect that my in-law was not in the House when this issue was dealt with. I would like to, once again, inform the House that we are going to stabilise this situation by making the prices uniform in June this year. We are already working towards that and we can give him more information on how we are doing it in ensuring that the prices of all commodities are the same throughout the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that this Government has no political will to raise the level of fuel reserves as originally intended because it has been diverting the money that has been raised for such purposes?

Mr Kambwili: Konga, ima!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I have already stated that we are in the process of doing that.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, all of us know that just recently, His Excellency the President announced that fuel prices should be reduced. We are, at the moment, working towards that programme, but you cannot raise the money within a day. Some of the money is going towards off-setting some costs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he considers it prudent financial management to divert funds meant for fuel reserves to a price stabilisation fund.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, the K152 per litre levy was for the establishment of strategic reserves and, as the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated in his written response, part of this money has been spent on completing the tank which will store the strategic reserves. Most of these funds - although not all of them have been used - have been used for their intended purpose.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank God that most of the money is still there, according to the hon. Minister. I would like to know, because in answering part (b) of the question, they said that they had not bought any strategic reserve fuel using the fund, why they have not done so because the money is there.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it was said in plain and simple English that some of the money was used to construct storage for the strategic reserves. Some of the money, as the hon. Deputy Minister read out, was used to stabilise the prices.

Mr Speaker, this House knows that the prices of fuel are not internally generated, but are due to international prices. The price of fuel in the country is dependant on the prices obtaining on the international market and, as a prudent Government, we want to stabilise the economy. We do not want that each time prices fluctuate on the international market, they also do the same here because doing so will affect economic operations in this country and it is for that reason that the Government used some of the funds to stabilise the prices.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, if the reason given by the hon. Minister that this is due to international price change is something to go by, what significant factor is there for the price of fuel in Botswana and Zimbabwe being different from ours?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has asked this question time and again. Globally, prices of petroleum products are not the same in every country and I know that the hon. Member is aware of that. The price of fuel in Botswana is not the same as in Angola and the price of fuel in the United Kingdom is not the same as in Spain and so, definitely, the price in Zambia cannot be the same as in Zimbabwe.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, consolidated fuel reserve for thirty days is welcome as a short-term plan as asserted by the hon. Minister himself. What is the Government doing, as working progress in the next five years, in order to achieve their intention of ninety-day reserves as promised by the hon. Minister?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the strategy is to increase storage because that is what is lacking.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

DESKS FOR SCHOOLS IN MUFULIRA CONSTITUENCY

363. Ms Mwape asked the Minister of Education when desks were last allocated to schools in Mufulira Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, the ministry provided a total of 3,484 desks in 2009 at a total cost of K736,020 to Mufulira District. These desks were supplied in two batches, the first one was in June, 2009 and the last was one in September, 2009. This is an on-going exercise in which, ultimately, we are trying to make sure that all the schools in the country have sufficient desks. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying 3,484 desks were given to Mufulira District and not Mufulira Constituency, but my question was on Mufulira Constituency. I ask this question because the furniture in the schools in Mufulira Constituency is in a deplorable condition.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is your question?

Ms Mwape: When is the Government going to precisely provide desks to schools in Mufulira Constituency, which are in dire need of furniture, and not Mufulira District?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, our approach in the distribution of desks, as Ministry of Education, is such that in our standards chain, the furthest we go is the District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) office. The DEBS office picks it up from that point and gets into the detailed plan of which school should receive how many desks and so on and so forth. However, for the sake of the hon. Member of Parliament who, maybe, wants us to be specific about the allocation of the 3,484 desks I talked about, we gave 1,710 desks to her constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in the 2009 allocation of desks, it was discovered that most of the desks were given to schools which are in the green sites and the existing schools, that is the old schools, were marginalised. Could the hon. Minister explain why such a situation occurred?

The Deputy Chairperson: From my understanding, that question has nothing to do with Mufulira Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, as a follow up to the answer given by the hon. Minister, I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to see to it that there is proper maintenance of desks that have been supplied.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, that programme is there except for the challenges that we face in terms of resources. Otherwise, what I can say is that, at the district level, we have a provision for maintenance of desks and each school is encouraged, once in a while, to try and ensure that specific desks are all taken care of. 

To take advantage of the question asked, I just want to mention that, as a ministry, at the moment, we are considering the possibility of including in the ministry’s budget, an allocation for the maintenance of desks annually.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, for the ministry to plan, they need to know how many desks Mufulira needs. I would like to know the total number of desks Mufulira needs for it to be declared well furnished as far as desks are concerned.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is that question in relation to Mufulira Constituency or Mufulira as a whole? Hon. Minister, do you have a bonus answer?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, what I want to say, as a matter of emphasis, is that this information is co-ordinated at the DEBS level like I said earlier. So, we supply the desks according to the requests of the district. 

I would like to encourage the hon. Members of Parliament here to collaborate, as much as possible, with the DEBS offices if they want to have this kind of information. To be specific, I have the figure relating to Mufulira, but if you wanted me to indicate the shortfall at the national level, at the moment, we are talking about 350,000 desks. 

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

NUMBER OF REGISTERED AND FUNDED COMMUNITY SCHOOLS IN NDOLA DISTRICT

364. Mr Mushili asked the Minister of Education:

(a)    How many community schools were registered in Ndola District;

(b)    how many of the schools at (a) were recognised by the Ministry of Education;

(c)    of the schools at (b), how many were funded by the Government;

(d)    what criteria were used by the Government to fund community schools; and 

(e)    what measures the ministry had taken to monitor the performance of community schools and the utilisation of funds.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, there are eighty-three community schools which are registered in Ndola District.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education recognises fifty-six community schools in Ndola District.

The Government funds thirty-five community schools out of the fifty-six community schools recognised by the Government.

Mr Speaker, community schools are expected to meet minimum standards such as presence of infrastructure, to be specific classrooms, teaching and learning materials and Grade 12 school leavers as teachers and community school head teacher or supervisors in order to be eligible for funding from the Government. Among other criteria used to fund community schools are that the school should have the following:

(i)    parent community school committee;

(ii)    good enrolment and presence of at least fifteen children;

(iii)    toilets and adequate water supply;

(iv)    safe learning environment.

Mr Speaker, to monitor the performance of community schools and utilisation of funds, the Ministry of Education has taken the following measures:

(i)    Teachers attend workshops where they are taught how to prepare lesson plans and schemes of work;

(ii)    standards officers monitor the lesson delivery in community schools;

(iii)    teachers in charge are oriented on how to utilise Government funds and maintain books of accounts;

(iv)    accounting officers from the DEBS office also inspect the schools periodically;

(v)    where DEBS are not fully satisfied with the community school as it relates to Government procedures and regulations, the funds are held at the district and are only released through services and goods particularly where schools do not have bank accounts; and 

(vi)    the enrolment also determines how much funds community schools can be allocated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, out of fifty-six community schools that are recognised by the Government, only thirty-five are being funded. Why are the other twenty-one not funded?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, I thought that came out quite clearly in my response when I said that we have criteria which we follow in determining which school is supposed to qualify for funding. What it means, obviously, is that the other schools, which is the difference between fifty-six and thirty-five, have shortcomings in terms of meeting the minimum required standards.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, the establishment of community schools is a good initiative, but my worry is on the teachers. When are you going to consider giving them, at least, a little salary rather than them depending on the community that is already poor?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, that is not in our immediate plans, but what I must mention is that as much as possible, we are trying, as a ministry, to deploy trained teachers to some recognised community schools. At the moment, the hon. Members of Parliament must be able to confirm that, at least, in a number of areas, some community schools have had properly trained teachers deployed to community schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that, in fact, the Government has abdicated its role of providing services to the people? I say this referring to the answer that the hon. Minister gave in part (d) of the question where the ministry expects the community to provide water, infrastructure, toilets and everything that goes with setting up a school.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, as a Government, I totally disagree with the assertion that we have abdicated the delivery of services, so to speak, by failing to provide social services to certain parts of the community. 

I want to mention that the idea of community schools, as was rightly mentioned by other hon. Members, is actually an initiative of communities in areas where the Government has not yet built schools. On the other hand, it is must be appreciated that the Government has really scaled up efforts in trying to provide educational services at the national level. 

Those who care to follow events and statistics will agree with me that over the past two to three years, we consistently built more than 2,500 additional classrooms. This means that we are making every effort possible to ensure that access to education is actually attained in line with the millennium development goals (MDGs) by 2015. So, in areas where there are no schools and the communities decide to come up with some basic initiative while waiting for the Government to come in, it is incumbent upon them to meet certain minimum requirements before such schools are registered and recognised. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, some community schools have been recognised by the Government. I would like to find out how often these schools are inspected by standards officers.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, I cannot say how often it is done, but we have standards officers at the national and provincial levels all the way down to the offices of DEBS. These officers regularly go round to inspect not only community schools but also Government schools in line with whatever programmes they draw up in their respective offices.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, it is a fact that the majority of community schools are in poor areas either in high density townships or rural places and this is where communities are least able to afford education. Now, bearing in mind that the Government has a policy of free basic education, when is it going to take over the running of all community schools?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question. Obviously, the mushrooming of community schools is because many Zambians are hungry for education and, much as the Government is trying to meet all the needs, we cannot do this all at once. This is why, as the hon. Deputy Minister already stated, in many areas, people have come up with this initiative. Currently, we have close to 4,000 community schools in the country and we realise that they cannot continue to operate haphazardly. Therefore, we have put in place policy guidelines or regulations to supervise the establishment of community schools. We are just waiting for approval from Cabinet in order to bring the new Education Bill to Parliament to give guidance on this. 

However, it is our intention to take over community schools. We have done this before in some areas where people have put up community schools. We have taken over the schools, expanded them and even provided teachers. 

Hon. Members may recall that, last year, out of the 5,000 teachers recruited, the first 1,000 were deployed to rural or poor areas because we recognise that the need is more in these areas than in urban areas. So, we are cognisant of the problems that are faced in rural areas in terms of education and we will continue every day, week, month and year to come up with innovative ideas so that we can manage community schools with the communities properly, safely and provide quality education.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, there are community school teachers who go for training in Government teacher training colleges, but when they complete their training, they are not sent back to the community schools. Instead, they are sent to Government schools. Why are they not sent back to community schools so that they improve the education standards in those schools?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, in fact, it is the policy of our ministry to ensure that when teachers who are teaching in community schools qualify to be enrolled into our regular teacher training colleges, they are encouraged, as much as possible, to go back to the community schools after completing their training. This is the policy. Maybe, the hon. Member might cite one or two exceptional cases but, generally, the policy is to send them back to their areas of origin.

I thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

MANSA BATTERIES FACTORY

365. Mr Chimbaka asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry whether the Government had any plans to repossess Mansa Batteries Factory whose new owners had failed to operate it for the last sixteen years.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, it is not in the Government’s plans to repossess Mansa Batteries Factory. The Government is working with the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) to find an investor who can either partner with the current owners of Mansa Batteries Factory or purchase the factory depending on what will be agreed upon between the two parties once such an investor has been identified.

The company was not privatised but scheduled for privatisation under Tranche 3. However, before the then Zambia Privatisation Agency (ZPA) could commence preparation for privatisation, the company was placed under receivership by Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) Limited in January, 1995 for the recovery of the K1.2 billion the bank was owed by way of an overdraft facility. The bank was secured by a floating charge over the assets of the company and on which basis it appointed a receiver. 

In November, 1995, after learning of the receivership by ZANACO, the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ), that had advanced long-term loans to the company, also appointed a receiver on the basis of its security being a first mortgage over the factory premises incorporating a specific charge over the plant and machinery at the factory. The amounts owed to DBZ by Mansa Batteries Limited at that time amounted to K122.6 million.

On the basis of the receivership by the DBZ, the factory building and machinery were advertised for sale between 1995 and 1996 and sixteen local and foreign investors, including the management team of Mansa Batteries submitted bids. Amanita Zambiana emerged as the highest bidder and the factory premises and machinery were, therefore, sold to it at K200 million on 20th March, 1997. Therefore, the DBZ withdrew its receivership after the sale of the factory and machinery to Amanita Zambiana.

Since ZANACO held a floating charge over all the other assets such as the housing estate, guest house and club house, motor vehicles, raw materials and consumables, the appointed receiver has been selling these assets in an effort to satisfy the debt owed by Mansa Batteries Limited to the bank.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, the major reason Amanita Zambiana could not manufacture batteries is that the cost of production of a battery is quite high compared to imported ones. Now that manganese is seeking bigger markets …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, please ask your question.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, since the Government is responsible for facilitating the creation of employment for Zambians, is there no way it can logically and lawfully increase tax on imported batteries in order to allow Amanita Zambiana manufacture batteries at an affordable cost?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the issues relating to Mansa Batteries Limited are quite substantive. The increase of taxes on imported batteries will not resolve these issues because what is needed, first of all, is to raise sufficient capital to run the plant so that it is able to produce batteries. At the moment, it is estimated that the minimum required is about US$5 million.

As a Government, we have taken steps and the first step is to procure an investor who will be either a joint venture partner or is prepared to take over the running of Mansa Batteries. 

Mr Speaker, the next step is to put together a framework of incentives to support the viability of Mansa Batteries. This is how we are proceeding.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, through you, hon. Minister, surely, in your own view, Mansa Batteries owed Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) about K1.5 billion. Was it worth K200 million? 

Sir, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this MMD Government gave away Mansa Batteries for only K200 million.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, K1.2 billion which Mansa Batteries owed ZANACO was a lot of money at the time. The receiver was appointed in order to secure this particular debt and they appropriated the assets. The Government did not perform any transaction related to Mansa Batteries at the time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, I want a clarification from the hon. Minister. He talked about the company being in receivership. I think the receivership has taken too long and from my little understand of receivership and liquidation, what is going on at Mansa Batteries is not a receivership, but liquidation and at the end of that process, when the so-called receivership finishes, there will be no assets the Government can hold on to or sell to another partner. Would he hon. Minister confirm that?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, in the answer we have said that the current owner owns the factory premises, the mills and the licence. These are specific assets for which we are trying to procure a partnership to resolve the Mansa Batteries issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, at the time Mansa Batteries was put under receivership, it was owned by the Government. I would like to know what the Government did at that time to save their company from collapsing and being put under receivership.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, at the time, the policy of Government was one aimed at privatisation. At that time, there were numerous companies such as Mansa Batteries that had a lot of financial difficulties and the Government did not have the capacity to meet these various obligations.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, incentives are given to keep companies alive, hence this foreign investor interest, and a good example is Luanshya Mines. I would like to know the Government’s policy on the preservation of parastatal entities which are owned for the Zambians by this Government.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, as far as the Government is concerned, we look at these parastatals on a case-by-case basis. In the power, telecoms and agriculture sectors, we have formulated different programmes. Therefore, what we do is to look at the fundamentals of the case and address ourselves to the specifics of that particular case.

I thank you, Sir.

PAYMENT OF ELECTION OFFICIALS

367. Mr Chisala asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice when the Electoral Commission of Zambia would pay election officials their two-night allowances earned during the 2008 Presidential elections.

The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia paid all allowances owed to election officials for the 2008 Presidential elections.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is quite surprising to hear that some people who helped to conduct the Presidential bye-election have been paid. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why those who conducted elections in Chilubi have not been paid up to now.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may be confusing their agents ....

Interruptions

Mr Sichilima: All Electoral Commission of Zambia agents were paid. If Patriotic Front did not pay its agents, it should go and pay them.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the question raised by the hon. Member for Chilubi was asking the Vice-President when the Electoral Commission of Zambia would pay election officials who were supposed to be paid by the Electoral Commission of Zambia. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who is confusing those election officials with party agents to explain how many election officials were there in the 2008 elections and how much was disbursed to all of them.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister may give a bonus answer if he has any.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, as a spokesperson of PF, he should come up with a specific question …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is that hon. Minister in order to be referring to hon. Members of Parliament and pointing fingers at them in their private political party portfolios when questions are being raised to him as hon. Minister responsible for this ministry? Is he in order to be misdirecting himself?

The Deputy Chairperson: This gives me an opportunity to guide. Let us avoid, as far as we can, politicising questions that are straight forward. Let us zero in on the answers. It is very clear. With that point of order, I am sure the hon. Minister can give the answer.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, all election agents were paid.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi is insisting that the election officials have not been paid. At the same time, the hon. Minister is also insisting that the election officers were paid. Why can the Government not say that since the hon. Member of Parliament is insisting, they are going to find out whether it is true that they have not been paid? The hon. Member is on the ground in Chilubi while the ministry is getting the information from the Electoral Commission of Zambia. Why can they not find out from the grassroots to ensure that what the hon. Minister is saying is correct or not? I do not think they will lose anything.

Hon. MMD Member: Hammer!

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, the answer which I have given on the Floor of this House is the correct one. The officers were paid and that is the Government position.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, questions are asked and answered on the Floor of this House and this is for the benefit of the Government. This is one thing hon. Ministers should realise. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! What is your question?

Mr Ntundu: I would like to find out from the hon. Minister as to whether the Electoral Commission of Zambia (pointing at hon. MMD Members)...

Hon. MMD Members: The hour.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I think, really, as the Presiding Officer, let me implore the hon. Members both on my right and left that the people out there should not begin to think that we are using the Chamber as a political platform. Please, let us take that into account.

The hon. Member for Gwembe may continue.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister (pointing at Mr Sichilima)...

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Forward.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! It appears hon. Members do not want to heed the ruling of the presiding officer.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice, SC.(Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

________________

The House adjourned at 1738 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 10th March, 2010.