DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 19th March, 2010 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

__________ 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

FREE EYE SCREENING EXERCISE BY VISION CARE CENTRE

Mr Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to inform you that I have permitted Vision Care Centre – and listen to the names here – an Ophthalmic and Dispensing Contact Lens Practitioner, to conduct a two day free eye screening exercise for interested hon. Members of Parliament and staff.

The exercise will be conducted on Tuesday, 23rd and Wednesday, 24th March, 2010, in Committee Room No. 5 here at Parliament Buildings.  All interested hon. Members are requested to visit the practitioners at their own convenient time in Committee Room No. 5 between 09:00 hours and 16:00 hours.

During the exercise, the centre will also distribute pamphlets on their services to hon. Members of Parliament.

A few months ago, I, without your knowledge, did a very quick survey of all of you with regard to your eyesight …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … and I found that, at least, 25 per cent of us need the assistance of these devices (waving his spectacles). I, therefore, suggest, even though this will be done at your convenience, that you, please, go when it may still be timely.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I rise to give some idea of the Business the House will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 23rd March, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the Seconding Reading Stage of the following Bills:

(i)    The Patents and Companies Registration Agency Bill, 2010;

(ii)    The Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(iii)    The Patents (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(iv)    The Trademarks (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(v)    The Registration of Business Names (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(vi)    The Registered Designs (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(vii)    The Companies (Certificates Validation) (Amendment) Bill, 2010; and

(viii)    The National Constitution Conference (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

Thereafter, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the following Bills:

(i)    The Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2010;

(ii)    The Engineering Institution of Zambia Bill, 2010; and

(iii)    The Information and Communications Technologies (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

Then the House will consider any other Business that may have been presented before it earlier.

On Wednesday, 24th March, 2010, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will debate Private Members Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Second Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Outturn and Appropriation Accounts for the financial year ended 31st December, 2007. Then, the House will consider the Second Reading Stage of the Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Bill, 2010. After that, the House will deal with any other Business that may already have been presented before it.

On Thursday, 25th March, 2010, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider other stages of Bills already before it.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 26th March, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, it is my intention, on this day, to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom, and there after, adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

___________ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

PRESIDENT’S STATE VISIT TO CHINA

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Pande): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to inform this august House on the state visit to China which was undertaken by the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, from 24th February to 4th March, 2010.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: His Excellency the President undertook this visit following the invitation by the President of the People’s Republic of China, His Excellency, Mr Hu Jintao. President Banda was accompanied by Five Cabinet Ministers from the Ministries of Finance and National Planning, Commerce, Trade and Industry, Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, Mines and Minerals Development and Foreign Affairs and senior Government officials.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that our President was accorded one of the most unique opportunities of meeting the three top leaders of the Chinese Government, starting with the President of the People’s Republic of China, His Excellency, Mr Hu Jintao, the Premier or Prime Minister, Mr Wen Jiabao and the Chairperson of the National People’s Congress, Mr Wu Bangguo.

I would like this House to note that State visits to China would normally accord visiting Heads of State the opportunity of meeting one of the three and not necessarily all the three top leaders as was the case with our President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: This was, indeed, a great honour to Zambia. His Excellency President Banda was the first to visit China soon after the Chinese Lunar year, an important event in the Chinese tradition. 

Mr Speaker, His Excellency President Banda’s visit to China turned a new page in the Zambia-China relations. It strengthened the economic and bilateral relations and also brought the people of the two countries closer. I am glad to confirm that, indeed, the President had very fruitful meetings with all the three top leaders, who expressed the desire to work with the Zambian Government.

Mr Speaker, it is a known fact that Zambia and China have enjoyed very substantive, cordial and long established relations which date back to Zambia’s pre-independence era. These relations are founded on the basis of friendship, equality and mutual respect as evidenced by high level contacts and visits from both sides.

The First President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda had a close relationship with Chairman Mao and visited China many times. The late President, His Excellency, Dr. Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace, paid a State visit to China in November, 2003 and in December, 2006 during the Beijing Forum on China Africa Co-operation (FOCAC) Summit. President Mwanawasa SC. also visited China in 2008 while His Excellency the Chinese President visited Zambia in 2007. This is a testimony of the strong bonds of friendship existing between Zambia and China.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform this House that the State visit to China exposed us to the latest economic success of China, which have been scored by the Chinese leadership and have resulted in high standards of living, which are being enjoyed by its people. This has been possible because, in the last thirty years, it was economic development at all costs for China. Within a short period of time, China has created an economic miracle, lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, a record unparalled in world history.

This is what Zambia will continue to learn from China since this country has also been eagerly learning from international experiences, from large countries like the United States of America (USA) up to small countries like Singapore. For us, as Zambia, China’s success story is inspiring and encouraging because the country has continued to prosper even in the face of the global financial and economic crisis.

 During the discussions by the two Presidents, President Banda said that the Zambian Government had endeavoured to provide an environment that was conducive for both local and foreign investments and that lucrative opportunities for investment exist in all sectors, including the priority areas of agriculture, tourism, manufacturing and mining. He further said that the increased number of Chinese investment witnessed in Zambia was as a result of an investor-friendly atmosphere in the country.

He further told his counterpart that in an endeavour to further increase these opportunities, the Zambian Government had continued to expand and establish multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs) in selected parts of the country. He reminded the Chinese President of his unveiling of the Chambishi MFEZ in February, 2007 with his predecessor, His Excellency the late Dr. Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., an initiative of the Zambia-China economic relations.

I further, would like to inform this House that the zone has, so far, attracted investment amounting to approximately US$900 million. Such a facility, coupled with the Chinese investors already in the country, clearly demonstrates that Zambia is an attractive investment destination.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, this House may also wish to know that the Chambeshi MFEZ has already housed ten enterprises and created more that 3,500 local jobs and the number is likely to increase as the zone receives more enterprises. The infrastructure construction is progressing well with over US$100 million of the Chinese investment already spent on the project.

Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to inform this House that China has committed about US$700 million of investment in Zambia, the largest so far, compared to other African countries. At the same time, Zambia is the largest beneficiary of the eight measures of the forum on China-African Co-operation which are aimed at strengthening the China Africa Pragmatic Co-operation and support the development of African countries. 

During the visit, the Chinese President offered Zambia 658 million Yuan for various projects, including the construction of the Lusaka Stadium. Furthermore, China provided a concessional loan to Zambia. The President also said that China would conduct an evaluation in the construction of hydro power station.

His Excellency President Banda was informed by his counterpart that China had offered Zambia US$10 million which could be used in the health sector. Another 50 million Yuan which is to be utilised on the projects to be mutually agreed upon and had also offered 150 million Yuan as an interest free loan.

The Chinese President further encouraged the inter-governmental co-operation which would be people to people in sectors like, education, culture, health and tourism. He further offered Zambia 164 scholarships, this year, for young school leavers to study in China in various fields. Some of the scholarships will be for post graduate students. He reiterated the importance of continuing with the exchange of young experts. The Chinese President also reiterated the importance of continued co-operation between China and Zambia in order to enhance co-operation within the context of the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) region, Non-Aligned movement and at the international fora.

Mr Speaker, at the end of the official bilateral discussions between the two heads of States, the following agreements and memoranda of understanding were signed between the two countries.

(i)    Agreement on economic and technical co-operation between the Government of the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the Republic of Zambia interest free loan of 150 million Yuan. This loan is for the construction of the national stadium in Zambia and will be given within five years from 1st March, 2010 to 28th February, 2015. 

The aforesaid loan shall be repaid by the Government of Zambia in installments within ten years from 1st March, 2020 to 28th February, 2030 in convertible currencies or with export commodities of Zambia to be agreed upon through consultations between the two Governments of China and Zambia;

(ii)    Agreement on economic and technical co-operation between the Government of the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the Republic of Zambia a grant of 50 million Yuan. This grant shall be utilised to implement projects to be agreed upon through consultations between the two Governments. The specific matter shall be stipulated in the agreement to be signed subsequently between the two sides. The banking agreement for the implementation of this agreement shall be signed through consultation between China Development Bank and the Bank of Zambia;

(iii)    Framework agreement on mining comprehensive co-operation between the Government of the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the Republic of Zambia. This agreement is on the promotion of co-operation in the field of geology and mining through co-operative projects and exchanges of information and visits. This is on the basis of equality, mutual benefit, co-operation and win-win results.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Pande: The co-operation between the two parties will include the following areas:

(a)    geological survey and mineral resources potential assessment;
(b)    development of geological and mineral resources data base and data sharing;
(c)    application of modern science and technology to geological survey and mineral resources exploration and development;
(d)    mineral resources planning theory, technology and method;
(e)    management of mineral exploration and development;
(f)    mine geo-environment protection ; and 
(g)    other areas of co-operation of mutual interests to both sides

(iv)    Executive programme for culture agreement between the Government of the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the Republic of Zambia for the years 2010 to 2014. 

This agreement, Mr Speaker, will help in strengthening the exchanges and co-operation in culture and arts, cultural heritage, education, sports, publication, radio, film and television and so on. This is in accordance with the agreement between the two governments on cultural co-operation that was signed on 11th April, 1980 in Beijing. 

As regards the China Non-Ferrous Metal Mining (CNMC) Group Limited, relating to the collaboration in development of economic zones in Zambia, this will relate to the CNMC procuring funding from China and the various lending windows for the establishment of several special economic zones. This includes financing and construction of the Lusaka Sub-zone at a cost of US$100 million. It was gratifying to note that the Premier also made some commitments towards the Zambia-China relations. In his discussions with President Banda, the Premier informed the President that the Chinese people had been following the developments of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) and realised that, in the past few years, a few problems had been cited. The Chinese Government has, therefore, decided to cancel half of the debt which is owed by TAZARA in order to assist in the resuscitation process.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: The Chinese Government has further decided to come up with three measures which will help breathe a new life into the ailing railway line. It will undertake a field trip which will be engaged in determining what needs to be done before any works can commence. It will also assist with the improvement of managerial institutions which are running the railway line and send a new team of constructors who would help to rebuild it as per the new plan which will be as a result of the assessment process.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that a Zambia-China Seminar was organised during the State visit to China that took place on 26th February, 2010 in Beijing. The Zambia business delegation which attended the seminar comprised twenty-six business persons with diverse interests in various sectors. The purpose of the business seminar was to showcase the various trade and investment opportunities in Zambia. The main sectors which the seminar focused on were agriculture and agro-processing, energy, mining, infrastructure, construction, transport, financial services, tourism and information communications technology.

The seminar attracted approximately 130 participants; forty Zambians and ninety Chinese entrepreneurs. The seminar was graced by the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. High ranking Government officials also attended the seminar among whom were five Cabinet hon. Ministers from the Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Finance and National Planning, Commerce, Trade and Industry, Mines and Minerals Development and Tourism Environment and Natural Resources.

The message of the President’s Speech at the seminar was to encourage the Chinese business delegates to invest in Zambia’s various economic sectors as well as assuring them that their investment would be safe in Zambia. The President also pointed out a number of projects which Zambia and China had developed together such as TAZARA.

Furthermore, a fifteen-minute video show on Zambia was played followed by a presentation of Zambia’s business and investment climate by the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) Director-General. The presentation highlighted the business and investment environment, economic indicators and factor costs.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that, at the end of the business seminar, two memoranda of understanding were signed. The first one being between the ZDA, Zambia-China Economic and Trade Co-operation Zone (ZCCZ), and China-Africa Chamber of Commerce and Industry. The main focus of the memoranda of understanding is to promote co-operation in the fields of agro-industries, mining, manufacturing and trade and investment between Zambia and China. The second one was between Biomass Fuels Zambia Plc and Wu Han Kaidi of China on integrated bio-fuels production in Zambia with an initial investment of US$3 billion which would result in job creation of about 200,000.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to inform the House that the Government of Zambia, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, on Saturday, 27th February, 2010 signed two memoranda of understanding. The first one was with Beijing Goldcommon Mining Investment Company Limited relating to the construction of a landmark building in Lusaka and the development of mining projects in Zambia. The second one was with China-Africa Development Fund, relating to the setting up of a regional office in Zambia to service the Eastern, Central, Southern and Western African countries. The China-Africa Development Fund is an equity fund set up by the Chinese Government to provide financing to African-based projects.

Mr Speaker, in order to expedite the mining project in the North-Western Province, Zhonghui Mining Group has entered into a joint venture with Jianxi Mining Group, one of the biggest mining companies in China. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: In that connection, the Government, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, acknowledged receipt of a copy of the joint venture agreement entered into between Zhonghui Group and Jianxi Mining Company during the same occasion through an exchange of letters.

Mr Speaker, apart from the above pledges, the House may wish to know that China has large investments in the country like the one by the China Non-Ferrous Metal Mining Group Company Limited (CNMC), one of the largest Chinese Stated-owned enterprises under the control of the Chinese Government. This company is operating within the Chambishi MFEZ which was unveiled by the late President, His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. and His Excellency President Jintao in February, 2007.

Mr Speaker, before I conclude, I would like to inform the House that during the bilateral discussions between the Chairperson of the National People’s Congress, Mr Wu Bangguo, invited more Parliamentarians from Zambia to visit China. This is in order to up date each other on vital political issues which both countries could face not only at the regional level, but also at the international fora.

Mr Speaker, as per tradition, the State visit did not only entail discussions with the Chinese leadership, His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, was exposed to economic, cultural and other Chinese landmarks which have a bearing on the development of our country.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, please, allow me to point out that in 2009, China stood as the second largest economy in the world after the USA. As a result, over the years, China has established economic ties with many big economies in the world. It is, therefore, disheartening to note that there are people in the country who seem to be ignorant about this fact and do not appear to understand why Zambia should continue to co-operate with China. 

Mr Kambwili: Question.

Mr Pande: In this regard, I wish to appeal to those who may not know China’s economic power to take keen interest and educate in “The New China”.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement which has been given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, as a rule, these delegations to foreign visits usually have a large contingent of civil servants for purposes of storing information and knowledge because politicians positions come and go. When will the politicians in the Government resort to tapping the knowledge which our civil servants have rather than resorting to always travelling outside the country, giving an impression that we are very slow learners from the exposure every turn of the year. When shall we resort to the information and knowledge which is acquired by our civil servants?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member that each time we are travelling, we are accompanied by technocrats. I referred to the issue of signing a memorandum which was signed by civil servants and not hon. Ministers. Therefore, even in this particular delegation, all hon. Ministers who travelled were supported by experts from their ministries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, it is very clear that Zambians will benefit from this trip …

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: … that was made by the President to China.

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: The hon. Minister has mentioned a lot of things loud and clear. Can the hon. Minister confirm that it was necessary for the President to have stayed as long as he did in China …

Interruptions

Mr V. Mwale: … because there were a lot of things to discuss and agree on contrary to what people thought that it was unheard of for a Head of State to pay a State Visit for ten days? Can the hon. Minister confirm that there was a lot of work to be done as evidenced by the many benefits?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Sir, first of all, we must understand the issue of a State visit. It is important to know what it is. The period of a State visit is determined by the host country because it is the one that invites and prepares a programme. When you have days like what was accorded to our President, it is an honour. It shows how much respect the President of China accords to our President. It also shows that he considers our President as his counterpart. Indeed, it is a visit which was very beneficial to the country as can be seen from the outcome.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that part of the debt which is owed by TAZARA has been cancelled by the Chinese Government. I would like to find out how much of the debt has been cancelled.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, as I indicated, at this stage, it was agreed that 50 per cent of that debt would be cancelled. Therefore, what remains is to calculate how much we owe as at now. 

Interruptions

Mr Pande: As you may be aware, Zambia has been servicing the loan. 

Sir, it should be understood that during this State visit, there was no time to sit and start calculating how much the country owes. It was agreed, in principle, that 50 per cent of whatever was owed would be cancelled.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned in the statement that sixty-four scholarships were awarded to Zambia. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is going to advertise these scholarships so that qualified people can apply and utilise them.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: The House will pay attention.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Minister had listened carefully because I did not say sixty-four. I said 164 scholarships were awarded to Zambia. With regard to the issue of advertising, normally, all Government scholarships are advertised in the papers and those who read newspapers see them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, Albidon Mine was under care and maintenance until a company that responds to a name Zhingxhuan from China resuscitated it after meeting all the financial obligations that the mine owed to banks. This mine also owed the people of Mugoto certain social …

Mr Speaker: Order! What is your question?

Mr Nkombo: I would like find out whether during their State visit, which they are claiming was a very busy one, the hon. Minister took care of the interest of the people of Mugoto with the Chinese Government regarding their social obligations to constructing schools, hospitals and bridges that were made in the Development Agreement between Albidon Mine and the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, the issue of Albidon Mine was not part of my ministerial statement. If there are those issues, they can be dealt with between the company and the people of Mugoto, but they should be referred to the Ministry of Mines and Mineral Development.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is true that K7. 5 billion was used to carter for this State visit.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm because I did not work out the figures and it was not within my realm to look at the figures. That is done by Cabinet Office.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, this House is fully aware that State visits do take place between nations. However, a ten-day State visit is unprecedented. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that this State visit took place at a time this country was experiencing floods in places such as Kanyama, Chawama, Misisi, Mandevu and the Western Province, did the President take advantage of the visit to discuss what needs to be done to alleviate the suffering of the people in those flood-prone areas, seeing that this Government seems to be surrendering the development efforts to the Chinese Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I do not think it is right to say that the Government is surrendering development programmes to the Chinese people. As I indicated in my ministerial statement, today, any reasonable government and country that understands what is happening in the world, cannot afford not to associate itself with China.

 
Sir, for the benefit of those who do not follow economic trends in the world, currently, China reduced its holdings in the treasuries in the USA. America has been complaining and is almost pleading, saying, “Please do not go ahead with that.” The reason is that everybody has realised that China holds the future.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: With regard to taking care of the floods, …

Interruptions

Mr Pande: … the Vice-President did …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Minister will take his seat. It is clear that there are certain hon. Members of Parliament who want to sabotage this particular activity and I will not allow them to do that. There is so much information that this House and, through it, the people of Zambia must get. So, I instruct you to behave. 

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, there is a lot to benefit from China. Like I indicated in the ministerial statement, we learnt quite a lot from that visit. Even on the issue of floods, there is a lot that we can learn and apply to what is going on in the country at the moment. We can assist to a certain extent, but floods are not only peculiar to Zambia. There were floods in the USA, United Kingdom (UK) and Madeira, Portugal. These are natural disasters that the Government cannot immediately work on permanently. They will be dealt with as they occur according to the Government’s capacity.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, during the Government of the late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., the Chinese Government promised to give us a grant to build a stadium in Ndola. I would like to find out why it has now changed and is now giving us a loan which we are going to pay through our nose? What impact would that have on total foreign debt given that the total amount that we are borrowing from China is close to US$1 billion? 

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the stadium that I referred to is not in Ndola, but in Lusaka which will be a national stadium. I do not know where the hon. Member got the figure of US$1 billion from. That is not the correct amount.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota, SC. (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister’s statement, part of the visit was to discuss the issue of the MFEZs. I would like to find out whether Livingstone was taken into consideration in view of the fact that, geographically, it is well placed in terms of world communication, including neighbouring countries to receive raw materials and export finished products to neighbouring countries and also within Zambia. 

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, those are details which the two countries will agree on. They will have to agree on where and when this can be done because it was only agreed in principle that this amount of money will go towards the creation of MFEZs.  It will now depend on the technocrats from Zambia and China to agree on where it should be located. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, my question is in reference to the banking agreement. The influx of South African companies at the inception of privatisation was seen at the beginning of this decade which also included the banking sector. With the amount of investment China is pouring into Zambia, will we not have a situation where companies of foreign investors, which already enjoy incentives biased towards them as was the case with South African companies, opting to bank with the Chinese bank, which will not only deny the indigenous or partly indigenous banks a chance to grow, but also see an externalisation of much of its income, if not all of it, without leaving much for Zambia?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, Zambia operates in a liberalised market and a decision to bank with a particular institution or by a particular bank depends on a company itself. It is a business decision. It is incumbent upon banks to attract customers to bank with them. So, if there are indigenous banks, like is the case currently, they have to attract companies that will be coming from China and, indeed, any other countries that will be investing in Zambia. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, it is interesting to note that whereas we invited the President of China for half a day, he invited our President for ten days.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Nonetheless, State visits are very important and they are mutual. 

I would like to find out whether during this visit of the President to China where he spent ten days, care was taken to inform the Chinese Government of the existence of labour laws in Zambia which are flouted by Chinese investors when they come into Zambia? Furthermore, whether a programme has been put to ensure that before Chinese investors come to Zambia, they go through an orientation of Zambian laws in China rather than asking the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Services to come and conduct workshops for Chinese investors when they are already investing in Zambia and have employed our people?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, labour laws were definitely not one of the issues discussed …

Interruptions

Mr Pande: … because this is already being taken care of in the sense that before all the companies come to Zambia, they are availed with the laws of this country. If they are Chinese companies or any other company flouting the labour laws, there are ways in which these can be brought to book. We should not just continue talking about it. It should be brought out and reported to the relevant authorities so that the needful can be done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs take this opportunity to explain to the people of Zambia the difference between Taiwan and China economically, particularly that some political parties went to sign agreements with Taiwan to develop Zambia. 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, for the benefit of Zambians, Taiwan is a province in China. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: It is a province just like the Southern, Eastern or North-Western provinces here in Zambia. 

Laughter

Mr Pande: I am surprised to hear that and I do not believe that a politician could go and sign an agreement with a province. 

Laughter

Mr Pande: This shows that this particular person is very ignorant of what is going on or, indeed, this person duped the people for some personal benefits. Currently, Taiwan is dependent on mainland China where a one China Policy exists. In short, Taiwan is a province of China. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that any keen follower of China’s development will know that its economy has been the second largest in the world in the recent past. I have been one of the keen followers of this development. I am happy to note that in the delegation that went to China, we had twenty-six business people and we were awarded 164 scholarships. 

The phenomenal development of China over the past thirty years has been due to the Chinese going out to countries like America and Europe and applying the knowledge acquired back home. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: I would like to know whether this very hardworking Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: …is now in a position to establish a fund which will be available to all Zambians, including the 164 young people who went to China, for them to apply the knowledge acquired to the development of Zambia. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: Presidential candidate!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, as human beings and as a country, we develop by learning and copying from other people. China is a country we need to learn a lot from in terms of their work culture and commitment to developing their country. This is what we would like Zambians, even those who will benefit from the scholarships, to do. 

Mr Speaker, as regards funding, we have the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF) which is available, at the moment, for utilisation. Citizens will be assisted if they come up with viable and bankable project proposals. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, a large extent of this country is not mapped or geologically surveyed. According to the co-operation agreement in the area of geological survey, this will be conducted by the Chinese. This entails that they will have information about the existence of minerals which they may not be prepared to sell to other investors. Can the hon. Minister assure this country that the Chinese will not deny other investors mining rights?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I can assure Zambians that when the Chinese carry out the geological surveys and other programmes, they will not be on their own. They will be doing this in conjunction with Zambians from the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. Therefore, the issue of hiding information will not be there. Besides, this idea is coming from the Zambian Government because we want to know which areas have what kind of minerals so that we can develop them. We will not allow someone to hide information. This has been taken care of because our Zambian experts will be part of this group. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
______

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Great North Road, especially from Serenje to Nakonde, will be worked on to reduce on road traffic accidents which have become the order of the day. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, this is a very pro-active Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: We are aware of the state of the road. We acknowledge that the road is not in good shape. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply went there to check on the state of the road and to see what was obtaining on the ground. We saw him on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) television channel when he made this tour. Already, some works are being done on this road. In the long term, we will budget for this road and address the problem comprehensively so that we can reduce on the number of accidents. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, lately, the nation has witnessed an orchestrated campaign to disparage and discredit the Catholic Church through the Government-owned media by Government franchise. I would like to find out from his Honour the Vice-President whether the Government supports the people who are disparaging and discrediting the Catholic Church and whether it will discredit and disown the individuals who are doing so. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the beauty of democracy is that everybody in the nation is free to speak. We have heard some very irresponsible statements coming from some priests in the Catholic Church. I am a priest …

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Priest!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I am Catholic. That was a slip of the tongue. I am Catholic and a lot of Catholics in the Government and even here in Parliament are not amused by some of the statements that are undermining the integrity of our Church. In some Catholic churches, and this is true, priests are preaching politics. 

Hon. Opposition Members: BIGOCA!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The Catholic Church is not known to be divisive. It is a noble Church to which many of us belong. 
  It is about building peace in Zambia. It is also about reconciliation and forgiveness. At Mary Immaculate Church, where I congregate, we do not preach politics. People are respected as coming from different political parties.

 When articles are written in newspapers, it is in reaction to what is happening and it is part of democracy. I want to say that all churches, without exception, must preach forgiveness and peace. They must build Zambia. That is what churches should do. The Catholic Church, without exception, must do the same. I believe that it is not in order to allow some statements coming from either those who write in newspapers or some priests, including bishops who are relentlessly issuing statements which are divisive. Zambia has been known for peace. Therefore, let us build peace in Zambia and avoid these statements from wherever they are coming from.

Sir, I know that some of the priests want to hit the headlines in some of the news papers, especially the private media which is dividing the people of Zambia. That is not the role of the church and priests. Of course, we should not write articles which divide the nation.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, to evacuate somebody for medical treatment by the Government costs a lot of taxpayers’ money. Could His Honour the Vice-President shade more light on the claim by the Patriotic Front (PF) leader that his evacuation to South Africa, in 2008, for medical treatment was a mere political relations gimmick?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! You will not succeed to discourage hon. Members who wish to speak freely. It will not happen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that kind of politics is very dangerous because, at times, we all fall sick and go to the Government for help. The Government is there to respond to the medical needs of its citizens. Indeed, sometimes, a lot of money is used. Therefore, political leaders must learn to be grateful and …

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: …show appreciation, especially where their lives are saved when the Government comes to their rescue when they develop very serious medical conditions. In this particular situation which we are talking about, the Government had to respond to a very serious situation to save a political leader who was on the verge of death. Therefore, we should commend it for what it did. In fact, at the time that particular incident happened, the Government was commended for responding timely and there was even a reconciliation which followed thereafter because one of the particular leaders who was involved was almost being called to go back to heaven.

 Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Therefore, we must always appreciate when gestures of this nature are accorded to us.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Stop the clock! I was hearing murmurs about a point of order. My guess was that the point of order was going to relate to discussing issues relating to a person who may not be here to defend himself. Now, there is a difference …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Listen very carefully. That is why you go wrong because you simply know it all.

There is a difference between what is personal and what involves public policy. The issues of medical care and those who benefit from State medical care are matters of public policy. If there is a need for clarification on these matters, this is the place to raise the need for such clarifications. The Chair can tell the difference between what is personal and what is policy. There was no need for me to even explain this. I should have ignored it, but as you may hear next Monday, some of you here are unable to learn and practice the procedures of this House.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President …

Mr Lubinda: On a pint of order, Sir.

Mr Speker: Order! A point of order is raised. This means that the hon. Member for Kabwata does not wish for the hon. Member for Mandevu to raise that question. Therefore, we have a choice between allowing that point of order and stopping the hon. Member for Mandevu from raising her question. From what she has said, so far, she has not infringed any rules of debate in this House.

Hon Member for Kabwata, please.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I am honoured that you have allowed me to raise this important point of order. I also apologise to my colleague for disturbing her question. However, I wonder whether the Vice-President is in order to continuously refer to a matter that came to everyone’s attention through the press without, also, referring to a retraction of the earlier statement which was also provided for through the same press on which he relied for one side of the story. 

Is he in order to be selective with the information he provides to this House as an answer to the question raised by my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba, because all the information was available in the press and that is how we got it? Information was also available in the press that the person in question stated that the statement was taken out of context and he apologised to all those who were injured. Is he in order not to have referred to that?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! I shall allow the hon. Member for Mandevu to proceed with her question and in the process, His Honour the Vice-President will also deal with that point of order.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to explain to this House and the nation at large the statement alluded to by Hon. Mulongoti that the ballot papers will now be printed in this country without consulting the stakeholders who are the Opposition. Why change now? Does the Government want to rig the elections or what is the fear of the usual system?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, matters regarding the printing of ballot papers is the preserve of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and not ministers. The ECZ consults stakeholders, but I would like to state that since independence, we have printed ballot papers in this country. The idea of printing ballot papers in South Africa is a new thing and I believe that it was a temporal measure. However, all things being equal and in place, we should trust our electoral process. We should trust Government Printers because there are always monitors and representatives of political parties when ballot papers are being printed. 

With regard to the alleged withdrawal statement or apology on the evacuation to South Africa, I am not aware of it.

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: In which newspaper did it appear? There are newspapers which I do not read …

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … and in others, I just read the headlines and I can predict the content. So, forgive me, but bring that newspaper. If it is a feeble attempt to try and apologise, again, that does not hold water because it must be a genuine apology.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: However, Mr Speaker, it is public knowledge that a statement was issued saying that the evacuation to South Africa was a public relations gimmick. I can say that this was an insult to the Government and it shows that some people do not appreciate because a good turn deserves another.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) in- fighting is a Federation of International Football Association (FIFA) case, but it is not good for the advancement of Zambian football. The FAZ case has to do with the law and His Honour the Vice President is a lawyer. I would like His Honour the Vice President to make a comment regarding the petitions and suspensions in FAZ.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question, but as you know, the Government does not interfere in the affairs of FAZ because it does not want its country to be banned from international football by FIFA. I would like to state that there are structures in this country which look into matters of that nature. The legal framework indicates that the Sports Council of Zambia (SCZ) can intervene in accordance with the law although I believe that FAZ is better placed within its ranks and structures to resolve some of these issues. 

Mr Speaker, in accordance with the statutes and the FAZ constitution, I would encourage FAZ to resolve these issues quickly because Zambians are interested in an orderly FAZ. I would like them to sit together to resolve some of these issues. If there is disorder in FAZ, then football is going to suffer. So, all the people involved in that dispute should come together and try to resolve it in the interest of football and the nation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, we heard that a concession loan of around US$1 billion was granted to Zambia during the ten day State visit to China by His Excellency the President. I would like to know from you the terms attached to this US$1 billion in terms of the interest and repayment period.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, it is too early for me to answer such a question. I would first have to get the details on that particular subject because I do not want to mislead the people of Zambia. I will need to first get the figures and the agreement itself. I know that every agreement has to have the blessings of the office of the Attorney General and the terms you are talking about are spelt out in that particular agreement. Thus, I will look at that agreement in detail so that I can give proper information because I do not want to take the risk of giving inaccurate information to the nation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, it is possible that a donors’ standoff could be looming in this country on account of financial irregularities. President Kikwete of Tanzania, in order to improve on his financial management, has started to hold meetings to discuss the report of the Auditor-General with ministers and controlling officers. Why is the Government not seriously considering doing this? 

Hon. Member: The President has already indicated that.

Mr Hachipuka: Since we are going towards 2011, is the Government not worried about a potential standoff with the donor community?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) is entitled to ask that question and I must commend him for doing so. We are concerned about issues to do with the management of public resources not just because donors are concerned. The donors are concerned because they give us money. However, there is our own money, as a Government, which this House appropriates and as such it must be looked after prudently. It is our intention, of course, to engage with the donor community regarding these issues. Our channels of communication are open and we are always discussing some of these things. On whether Cabinet should discuss the report of the Auditor-General, indeed, as you know, there are channels through which we deal with the report. In addition the report is available to hon. Ministers and, through this House, their offices. All hon. Ministers are aware of the contents of the report by the Auditor-General.

Mr Speaker, through the Chairperson of PAC, controlling officers appear before the Committee to give various information.

Indeed, we must take all the necessary measures to involve hon. Ministers and all levels of Government so that public resources are looked after. In fact, as part of the measures, you have seen the laws which we are presenting to this House such the Whistleblower Protection Bill. The public should also take an interest in ensuring that we preserve these resources. As regard donors, we shall engage them diplomatically as we are doing. These things must be discussed. Whether there is a stand off or not, is unnecessary because we shall continue to discuss so that we preserve the resources. To ensure that our resources are well looked after is in the interest of the Government and everyone. Of course, hon. Ministers should get first hand information and whether we should discuss this in cabinet, is a matter for our consideration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what the Government is doing to ensure that national events or national days like the National Youth Day and National Women’s Day are safe from people that want to use them for their ambitions.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: What is the Government doing to ensure that those people that want to advance their personal agendas and want to destruct these important days, for example, those who are not youths in the case of Youth Day are not allowed to do this year in and year out?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that is a very important friendly question. Yes, there are some people who go to these important national events with hidden agendas to try and disrupt them. Let me encourage all the national leaders to attend these functions when they are held, but over politicisation is not desirable for this country. We must observe law and order when we attend these functions. Of course, people should not think that they have a monopoly on some of these things. Peace is important for all of us in this country and we must go to these functions for their intended purposes so that we observe these national days in peace.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, the issue of Mr Sata’s evacuation has been over politicised. I would like His Honour the Vice-President and, indeed, the nation at large to note that …

Hon. Members: Question!

Mr Mwamba: The question is when Mr Sata was evacuated, we had already arranged for his evacuation, but we did not want to embarrass the State …

Interruptions 

Mr Mwamba: … and as a result of that, we accepted the Government to evacuate him. So, the idea of over politicising this issue should come to an end because even without the Government we would have evacuated our President.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order! As you see, I believe it will be Monday …

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order! … which will be next Monday when a work shop in this regard will be held. 60 per cent of this House is brand new, but in addition, there is 6 per cent which is even newer than brand new.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Meaning, these 60 per cent have come in since 2006. At times, the presiding officers become very tolerant and give the benefit of particular the 6 per cent to say certain things which normally would not be allowed.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Now, obviously, the hon. Member for Kasama is one of the very welcome 6 per cent …

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: … which have come in since 2008. Maybe, the Vice-President will assist.

Laughter 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, if I am not mistaken, the hon. Member who has asked that question used to come to my office at that time because he was in the Movement for Multi-part Democracy (MMD). So, he would not have been in a position to know what happened in respect of that evacuation.

Laughter 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: What I know about that evacuation is that it was an emergency. There was no time to make those arrangements and the evacuee was in no position to make those arrangements. Therefore, our Government had to rise to the occasion and save his life.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: That is what happened and do not mislead the people of Zambia by saying things that did not happen. Owing to the evacuation, this is why there was even reconciliation. When that reconciliation took place, I was at State House and I met the person being talked about at the car park after a press briefing which was broadcast on our the ZNBC and he congratulated us. Therefore, it is not true that the Patriotic Front (PF) had made those arrangements of evacuating him. That is the fact, Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, one of Zambia’s greatest challenges was for this country to find an alternative route to the sea after the Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) by Ian Smith. It was a challenge to construct that road. One of the moment’s challenges, today, is to provide a route for the people of the Western Province from Mongu to Kalabo. It is a challenge. I wish to find out whether, from the President’s visit to the good people of the Republic of China, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … who constructed the 2,000 Kilometres of the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA), Tuta Road, Tuta Bridge and Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA), is it possible that these good people who have left landmarks on the soil of this land …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … can also assist us to get the Mongu/Kalabo Road which is a challenge at the moment?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: If the President did not stay long enough …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Major Chizhyuka: … should he not proceed further to deal with that matter, especially knowing that, in actual fact, even the United States of America Energy Bill, at the time that Obama was going, was funded by Chinese money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that was a very informative, learned and very friendly question coming from the hon. Member for Namwala. Indeed, the Chinese people are performing miracles all over the world and are assisting Zambia.

The road mentioned by the hon. Member is, indeed, very important. We are actively looking into this matter with a view to provide funding for the construction of this road. The road is not only essential to the people of the Western Province, but to all Zambians. China, therefore, is one of our co-operating partners who may be contacted for that particular road to be completed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, recently, a very high ranking officer from an international organisation, which I believe was the International Monetary Fund (IMF), advised the Zambian Government to be cautious about Chinese investment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I wish to find out from the Vice-President whether this advice has been heeded and if so, what cautionary measures has the Zambian Government taken against Chinese investment?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I think that is not true. The truth is that the IMF managing director commended Zambia …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … for tapping into Chinese investment. Maybe, the hon. Member read that information in newspapers which I do not read.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, when is the Freedom of Information Bill going to be brought to Parliament?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we are still making consultations …

The Vice-President’s Question Time expired.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: It is all over, is it not?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

THE MUTANDA-MWINILUNGA (T5) ROAD

413. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    what the current status of the Mutanda-Mwinilunga (T5) Road was;

(b)    why the project was abandoned by the contractor; and

(c)    when the construction of the road was expected to be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the periodic maintenance of the Solwezi (Mutanda)/Mwinilunga Road was divided into two lots, namely: Solwezi-Lumwana and Lumwana-Mwinilunga roads respectively. The first section (Lot 1, which is 1004 kilometres) of the project road was awarded to Raubex Construction and was completed in 2008. The second section (Lot 2, which is 191 kilometres) was awarded to Roads and Paving and works started in July, 2008. The works were scheduled for completion in December, 2009. The project is still ongoing and the works will be resumed immediately after the rains. Part of the road is in fairly good condition.

The project was not abandoned by the contractor. The funds allocated to the project were inadequate and were, therefore, exhausted before the project was completed. The contract sum for the periodic maintenance of the Lumwana/Mwinilunga Road is K67,907,796,063, but in the 2009 Annual Work Plan only K17,000,000,000 was allocated to the project.

The revised completion date for the works is December, 2010, subject to availability of adequate funds.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister if the contractor is owed any money for the works already done to-date.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of that question to inform the House that this hardworking Government is on top of things. It is because this Government is quietly doing things so well that there is even panic over the printing of ballot papers.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we are looking after all projects equally. In 2009, we had difficulties of funding and this is why the amount that was allocated was not enough to complete the project. As at now, the contractor is not owed a ngwee and will resume works on the project as soon as the rains subside. In fact, the contractor has started mobilising workers. Therefore, I can assure the House that this hardworking Government will complete the maintenance of the road.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Sir, I heard that the cost of maintaining the second section was underestimated. I am wondering why that happened. May I have an answer.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I did not hear the hon. Deputy Minister talk about underestimation. The funds allocated were inadequate because of financial constraints and, therefore, only K17 billion was allocated out of the required K67 billion. This is why the contractor could not continue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the money to complete the road has now been found.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I informed the House that the contractor has been paid. The implication of this is that since the contractor has already been paid, the project must be completed.  

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RURAL HARDSHIP ALLOWANCE FOR TEACHERS IN KAWAMBWA DISTRICT

414. Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)    how many teachers were supposed to receive rural hardship allowance in Kawambwa District;

(b)    when teachers who were taken off the list of recipients of the allowance would be put back on the list; and

(c)    how much, in arrears, was owed to the teachers at (a) above.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, there are 947 teachers who are supposed to receive rural hardship allowance in Kawambwa District. All the teachers who are eligible to receive this allowance in the district are currently receiving it and there are no arrears owed to the teachers in the area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that a lot of teachers in a lot of schools in Kawambwa, just like in Mwense, are not receiving this allowance because of the inadequacies of the people that are administering the allowance at district level? Teachers cannot do anything to correct the situation because of fear to be admonished by the ministry headquarters and hence a lot of teachers are just complaining about this.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I am not aware that there are eligible teachers who are not getting this allowance. The demarcation of the rural schools is such that in some schools like Kawambwa, for instance, we do not have eligible teachers who are not receiving this allowance. However, I am aware that, at the moment, the Government and the unions are engaged in some negotiations in trying to agree on new demarcations and thereafter, the Government will be paying allowances to these teachers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister had made reference to the demarcations for those schools in rural areas for the purpose of rural hardship allowance. Would the hon. Minister explain why an obviously rural place like the Limulunga Royal Village has had its teachers excluded from this list and when they will be re-instated so that they also receive remote/rural hardship allowance?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, like I have stated, currently, what is obtaining is that although some schools were excluded, there are some negotiations going on between the unions and the Government. After that, schools like, maybe, Limulunga Basic might be captured and start to receive the remote/rural hardship allowance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, it seems there is no definition of rural school, hence the confusion. Why can the ministry not improve the salaries for teachers throughout the country to avoid this confusion?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member that the definition will be drafted by the Government and the unions so that the deserving teachers will receive this allowance.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

___________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION BILL, 2010

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Immigration and Deportation Bill, 2010 seeks to consolidate all existing immigration laws, create an environment of co-operation with other public institutions, be in line with other legislation, reduce the cost of doing business and ultimately facilitate economic growth. 

The objects of the Bill are to:

(a)    consolidate the law relating to immigration;

(b)     provide for the appointment of a Director of Immigration and other immigration officers and provide for other powers and functions;

(c)     promote a human rights-based approach and culture in respect of immigration controls;

(d)     regulate the entry, exit and stay in Zambia of immigrants and visitors;

(e)     provide for prohibited immigrants and other specified persons and deportation from Zambia ;

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIPERSON in the Chair]

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was reading the objects of the Bill, the Immigration and Deportation Bill and the list continues as follows:

(f)    provide for, and regulate, immigration consultants;

(g)    create an environment of co-operation with public institutions and promote an integration of functions and harmonisation of operations among public institutions controlling borders and activities at ports of entry;

(h)     repeal and replace the Immigration and Deportation Act, 1965 and;

(i)     provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

The regulations and procedures of the Immigration and Deportation Act, 1965…

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The House shall listen. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: ... have become, in certain circumstances, a hindrance to the efficient delivery of immigration services and are not in conformity with current global trends. Further, other Acts that have been recently enacted have some contradictory provisions or impinge on the provisions of the Immigration and Deportation Act, thus making the operations of the Act difficult. In other words, the Act, in its current form, requires review.

 It has, therefore, become imperative to streamline the Immigration and Deportation Act, 1965 and bring all the other Acts that impinge on it or vice-versa in line. This Bill has been necessitated by the need to consolidate all the existing immigration laws and create an environment of co-operation with other public institutions.

In addition, the Bill is intended to promote an integration of functions and harmonisation of operations of public institutions, controlling borders and activities at ports of entry. It is also intended to reduce the cost of doing business by facilitating efficient implementation of immigration controls, especially for highly skilled trans-national labour, thereby facilitating economic growth. As such, the immigration law is intended to respond to issues of globalisation in relation to migration management in its internal security and effective response to the current operational and administrative challenges that would promote trade, investment and tourism in the country. 

Furthermore, since the Immigration Department is moving from a manual system to an information technology-based system, this is being regularly covered under the Act. I, therefore, call upon hon. Members to support this progressive Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, your Committee scrutinised the Immigration and Deportation Bill, 2010 referred to them by the House on Thursday, 25th February, 2010. Your Committee are aware of the fact that the Immigration and Deportation Act of 1965, Cap. 123 of the Laws of Zambia, together with its regulations and procedures are outdated and have been overtaken by the current global migration trends and, indeed, the investment policy of the country. We are also aware that other Acts, especially the recently enacted ones, have some provisions that contradict or impinge on the provisions of the current Act. As a result, this has made the department’s operations difficult, hence the need to repeal the Act.

From the outset, Mr Speaker, let me state that your Committee welcome the repeal of Cap. 123 of the Laws of Zambia. In doing so, we note that there are new progressive provisions in the Bill that are not in the current Act. For example, there are new provisions providing for the functions of the department; various new types of permits that were not there before and regulations for immigration consultants and other provisions in the Bill to deal with human trafficking, computer-generated data and the setting up of an integrity committee. The Bill also introduces a human rights-based approach in dealing with migration issues. Furthermore, the Bill includes new provisions that will make the resultant Act conform to the current migration trends and also bring it in line with other new Acts. This will not only promote internal security, but also investment as well.

In the report, Sir, your Committee made a few observations and recommendations. They observed that the title of the Bill which is the Immigration and Deportation Bill, does not address some of the migration issues since it only seems to address issues of persons coming into Zambia and their deportation. The Committee are of the view that there is a need to have a more encompassing title to deal with issues of entry, stay and exit of non-nationals and the various activities involved in managing that process. They, therefore, urge the Government to change the title of the Bill to Migration Management Bill. The proposed title will capture most aspects the Bill intends to address.

Sir, your Committee observed that the Bill, at Clause 4(1), provides for the appointment of a director as the Head of the Immigration Department. They view this as not being in conformity with the prevailing situation for immigration authorities in the region and Africa in general where heads of units are referred to as principal directors or directors general. In addition, they are aware that the Immigration Department is undergoing a restructuring process which will entail changes in the structure of the department and job titles therein. They, therefore, recommend that the head of the restructured department be designated as principal director. Furthermore, they urge the Government to seriously consider upgrading the department to a service.

With regard to Clause 6(k), your Committee observed that the clause gives discretionary powers to the Director of Immigration to issue a search warrant on bank accounts without the involvement of courts of law. They view this power to be prone to abuse in that the director is an interested party being an investigating and implementing agent. They, therefore, recommend that the power to issue search warrants under Clause 6(k) be vested in the courts of law. This is in order to provide checks and balances.

Your Committee also observed that a marginal note for Clause 32, as has been provided in the Bill, is misplaced. They, therefore, recommend that the marginal note for Clause 32 reads: “Border Pass and Transit Permit” and not “Offences and Penalties” as indicated in the Bill.
In conclusion, I wish to state that your Committee supports this progressive Bill and urge the House to pass it. Finally, your Committee wish to express their gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for not only appointing them to your Committee, but also granting them the opportunity to scrutinise the Immigration and Deportation Bill, 2010. They also wish to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to them throughout their deliberations. They are indebted to all the stakeholders who appeared before them for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs despite the short notice.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Speaker, while I rise to support this Bill, I have specific concerns. The Southern Province, from Chirundu to Livingstone, has only one border point. The Government knows fully well that the people who live along Lake Kariba have been displaced. Why has a border point not been opened at Namafulu because there is only one point of entry which is Chirundu? Why not have a point of entry in Sinazongwe which would overlook Binga in Zimbabwe? The House must know that we have Tonga speaking people living in Zimbabwe. Once this is done, the flow of trade between Sinazongwe and Binga will be re-opened.

Sir, I believe the Government is fully aware that before the Kariba Settlement or reconstruction of the dam, the people of Sinazongwe, Siavonga and Chief Simamba and others were one. We would like to have open contacts with our people in Zimbabwe. There are only three points of entry along Lake Kariba, which stretch to over 250 kilometres. This is quite a vast area. Therefore, I urge the Government that the re-opening of Namafulu Border Point be expedited. We need that border point to facilitate trade between Sinazongwe in Zambia and Binga in Zimbabwe.

Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of smuggling, illegal movement of firearms and crime going on along Lake Kariba. This is because the Government does not seriously look at the problems in this area which involves Zimbabwe and Zambia. I believe it is the duty of any responsible government to establish proper border points. Of course, I welcome this progressive Bill, but why not construct a border point at Namafulu? The ministry responsible has taken bulldozers which have been left there, including sketch plans.

Zimbabwe has already completed its part. Why are you dragging your feet? You have been giving excuses, every year, that there is no money. There will never be money in the corporate world. You will never have free money. It is only by doing it slowly, but surely that investment processes allow any other government to succeed. 

Zimbabwe has succeeded because it has done it in piecemeal and its side is ready. Why is the Zambian Government dragging its feet? It is because of the inertia and inefficiency. I hope this appeal that I have made in support of this Bill will make it possible for Namfulu Border in Sinazongwe to be expedited and quickly constructed.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members for the overwhelming support. 

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on 24th March, 2010.

THE PLEA NEGOTIATIONS AND AGREEMENTS BILL, 2010

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Plea Negotiations and Agreements Bill, 2010 seeks to provide for the introduction and implementation of plea negotiations and plea agreements in the Zambian criminal justice system. The Bill also provides for a co-ordinated and comprehensive approach to such negotiations and agreements. 

Sir, the concept of plea negotiations or plea bargaining as it is commonly known, is not a novel idea. Plea negotiation is widely used in the criminal justice system of common law jurisdictions such as England and Wales, United States of America (USA) and in Victoria, Australia and it is accepted as a necessary tool in the administration of criminal justice.

Mr Speaker, a plea negotiation is a negotiation between the accused and the lawyer on one side and the prosecution on the other. This culminates in a plea agreement between the defence and the prosecution in a criminal case. Typically, the prosecutor will ask the accused for a guilty plea to a specified lesser than the offence charge in return for any concession or benefit …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Do you have difficulties in consulting quietly that the person on the Floor can be heard? Consult quietly and let His Honour the Vice-President make his presentation in peace.

Please, continue.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … in relation to which charges are to be proceeded with.

Sir, plea negotiation offers have many benefits to both the accused and the criminal justice system as a whole. Plea negotiations help courts and prosecutors manage caseloads. By plea negotiating, prosecutors can reduce the number of cases set for trial and so reduce the number of lengthy trials. 

Mr Speaker, therefore, enactment of this Bill will reduce pressure on our criminal justice system which is currently over burdened, as it will provide another avenue through which cases can be disposed of so that not all cases will proceed to a full trial.

Sir, in terms of prisons, plea negotiation can also reduce the numbers of prisoners entering prisons as jail time may have been suspended due to a substituted lesser offence. Similarly, a convicted person’s custodial sentencing may be lower so that the time such a person will spend in prison may be shortened due to the lesser offence arising from a plea negotiation. Thus, plea negotiation can contribute to decongesting our crowded prisons.

Mr Speaker, further, in order to prevent abuse of the plea negotiation process by both the prosecution and the defence, which would happen if plea agreements are used merely as a means of clearing cases, the court is not bound to accept a plea agreement where doing so would not be in the interest of justice or in the public interest.

Sir, it should be noted that although the defence and prosecutor may have an agreement or a plea negotiation worked out, the court still have the final say and need to agree with the terms of the plea negotiation. If, for reasons specified in the Bill, the court rejects the pleas agreements, the case will proceed to full trial. This way, fears of the likelihood of prosecutors abusing plea negotiations or using them to free selected accused persons are allayed. In any case, hon. Members of this august House should note that the courts will always decide what the appropriate sentence for the lesser offence contained in the plea agreement should be. No negotiation will take place over the sentence. 

In addition, because the proposed legislation provides a comprehensive and co-ordinated approach to plea negotiations and plea agreements, there will be transparency and certainty in the plea negotiation process.

Mr Speaker, currently, plea negotiations are conducted in a formal manner. The rights of the accused person in relation to the agreement are largely undefined. Similarly, the powers of the prosecutor are not defined. The provisions of this Bill require both the accused person and the prosecutor to make specific undertakings.

Sir, the Bill balances the rights of the accused person, the rights of the victim and the public interest. The Bill safeguards the rights of the accused person by providing that the prosecutor will hold plea negotiations only through the accused person’s legal representative. Further, it provides that the accused person may withdraw from a plea agreement before sentence and, in certain circumstances, the accused person may appeal against a conviction based on the agreement.

Mr Speaker, further, the prosecutor may withdraw from a plea agreement before sentence where the public prosecutor later discovers that the accused person or his legal representative misled the prosecutor in some material respect during the plea negotiations or that the accused person was induced to conclude the plea agreement.  

On the other hand, the interests of the victim are taken into account by provisions requiring a public prosecutor to inform the victim or, where the victim is dead, the relatives of the existence and substance of a plea agreement. This removes the perception that a plea agreement is a deal by the accused person to escape just punishment.

Sir, from the foregoing, it is clear that this Bill is not controversial. It is progressive and timely. I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this august House to support it whole-heartedly.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, this Bill seeks to provide for the introduction and implementation of plea negotiations and plea agreements in the criminal justice system and matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Sir, your Committee were informed that this Bill is part of the implementation of the Anti-Corruption Policy and the domestication of the United Nations Convention against Corruption.

Sir, considering that your Committee were informed that plea bargaining has been taking place informally, especially in the High Court, the Bill will, therefore, provide a legal basis upon which these negotiations will be conducted as well as a regulatory framework for the same.

Mr Speaker, there are several reasons plea negotiations are necessary in the criminal justice system and chief, among them, is the fact that they will help to decongest the courts.

Mr Speaker, the following stakeholders appeared and made submissions before your Committee:

(i)    Ministry of Justice;

(ii)    Director of Public Prosecutions;

(iii)    Zambia Police;

(iv)    Judiciary;

(v)    Mr Vincent B. Malambo, SC., Private Legal Practitioner;

(vi)    Mr John Sangwa, Private Legal Practitioner; and

(vii)    Anti-Corruption Commission.

Sir, the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) was invited, but did not submit a written brief and could, therefore, not be heard by your Committee.

Sir, all stakeholders who appeared before your Committee were in support of the Bill as they believed that this would go a long way in decongesting the courts by providing a legal mechanism through which negotiations could be entered into. The stakeholders, however, raised some concerns in relation to the Bill and these are highlighted in your Committee’s report. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee support the introduction of the Bill as it will formalise the process that has already been taking place by giving it legitimacy and a legal framework. However, your Committee wish to bring to the attention of the House, the issues that I will make comment on.

Sir, in Clause 2, your Committee observe that the definition of “Plea Agreement” in Clause 2 of the Bill is not broad enough as it does not take into consideration the aspect of multiple charges and sentence bargaining. 

Mr Speaker, charge bargaining is a plea bargain in which a prosecutor agrees to drop some of the counts or reduce the charge to a less serious offence in exchange for a plea of guilt while sentence bargaining is a plea bargain in which a prosecutor agrees to recommend a lighter sentence in exchange for a plea of guilty from the accused.

Sir, in this regard, your Committee recommend that the definition be broadened to include charge bargaining and sentence bargaining and that the definition should read as follows:

“A negotiated agreement between a prosecutor and an accused person whereby the accused person pleads guilty to a lesser charge or to one of multiple charges in exchange for some concession by the prosecutor, usually, a more lenient sentence or dismissal for the other charges.”

Mr Speaker, your Committee observe that Clause 2 gives the impression that an accused can enter into plea negotiations on his own without a legal practitioner in contradiction to Clause 6 (2) which provides that the plea negotiations can be done only through an accused person’s legal representative. In this regard, your Committee recommend that the two clauses be harmonised to reflect the true intent of the legislation.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observe that Clauses 4(1) and (2) give power to the public prosecutor and accused to enter into plea negotiations at any time before judgment. This provides an open ended time frame in which to conduct plea negotiations. This means that even as trial is going on, plea negotiations will be taking place concurrently up to the time just before judgment, but there should be a time limit within which plea negotiations may be conducted. In this regard, your Committee are of the view that plea negotiations should be conducted at any time before commencement of trial.

Sir, your Committee observe that the use of the terms, “Legal Practitioner” and “Legal Representative” is not clear from the reading of the Bill. It is unclear whether these are being used interchangeably or separately. Further, whereas the term, “Legal Practitioner” is defined in Clause 2 of the Bill, the term, “Legal Representative” is not defined. 

Sir, your Committee note that the two terms do not necessarily mean the same thing. In this regard, they recommend that for the purpose of the Bill, the use of the two terms be clarified in the definition clause as well as in other clauses where they are used. Your Committee are of the view that Clause 12(4) poses a serious juridical question of whether a court that had already heard so much information about a case prior to plea should be allowed to proceed with trial when negotiations had failed. 

In this regard, your Committee are of the view that the Bill, departs from the spirit of ensuring judicial impartiality by rendering it permissible for the same presiding officer who rejected the plea agreement to preside over the subsequent trial.

Mr Speaker, we, therefore, recommend that in such a situation, the case start afresh before another presiding officer.

In conclusion, I wish, on behalf of your Committee, to pay tribute to all the witnesses who tendered both oral and written submissions. Your Committee also thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording them an opportunity to consider the Bill. They further, thank the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the assistance throughout their deliberations. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members for the overwhelming support. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read the second time.

Committed to the committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th March, 2010.{mospagebreak}

THE DAIRY INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT (Repeal) BILL, 2010

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present my ministry’s justification for introducing the Diary Industry Development Bill, 2010 to this august House.

Mr Speaker, the enactment of the Dairy Industry Development Bill will ensure the production of safe and wholesome high value dairy products, enable reinforcement of current quality control and sanity standards of dairy products, as well as allow for a level playing field among stakeholders to enable the dairy industry to develop in one direction. 

Mr Speaker, the dairy industry has undergone a number of changes since independence. Economic, social and policy changes have necessitated the repealing of the Dairy Produce Marketing and Levy Act and the Dairy Produce or the Establishment Act of 1964 and replacing them with the Dairy Industry Development Bill  (to be enacted) in order to develop the dairy industry in line with the current environment and trends. 

Mr Speaker, the dairy industry is, today, running without regulation due to the regulatory powers which were under the Diary Produce Board being outdated and currently non-existent. The Dairy Produce Board, which was Government owned, operated all the dairy products processing plants countrywide. However, with the coming in of privatisation in the early 1990s, operations of these processing plants were left in the hands of the private sector which, today, has no established regulatory body. 

Mr Speaker, the main objective of the Dairy Industry Development Bill is to regulate the dairy industry for it to be efficient and self sustaining so as to effectively contribute towards poverty alleviation, household food security and job creation. The specific objectives include:

(i)     establishment of the dairy industry development board and provide for the functions and powers;

                                                                                                                                                                                                        
(ii)    enhancing milk production in order to fully utilise the capacity of processing facilities as well as achieving  growth in the processing of safe and wholesome high value milk products;

(iii)    provide for the regulation of the processing, manufacturing, marketing and distribution of milk;

(iv)    ensuring collaboration and participation among stakeholders within the dairy industry and to provide a wider service to farmers and other key players in the dairy industry; and

(v)    to promote the self-regulation of the dairy industry through the development and use of codes of practice. 

Mr Speaker, let me state that the dairy industry is a fast growing industry which has been identified as an effective tool for poverty alleviation. The dairy co-operatives namely, Magoye, Monze and Choma in the Southern Province and Fisenge Women’s Co-operative in Luanshya in the Copperbelt Province, with its ten affiliated co-operatives, are examples of successful and independently run co-operatives that have proved to be important income generating entities in the past years and still continue to do so. 

There are 2,856 farmers in the operating dairy co-operatives countrywide. These are, on average, producing an estimated 4,777 litres of milk per household per year. The milk collection centres are on average marketing 359,494 litres of milk per year at a value of about K1,212,355,600 per year translating into 44,029,200 litres of milk which was processed in 2009 in our existing processing plants which amounts to only 42 per cent of the installed capacity in use. 

Mr Speaker, currently, the country has an estimated herd of 600,000 dairy cattle. However, this figure is expected to increase by an approximated 20 per cent due to the increase in the number of people engaging in dairy farming. Importation of dairy animals, artificial insemination and improved extension services will also contribute to this increase. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, the Government is aware of a number of issues that are negatively affecting the dairy industry and with the enactment of the Dairy Industry Development Bill, it is expected that we will be able to resolve these problems as well as lay a solid foundation to ensure increasing parallel development within the sub-sector. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Dairy Industry Development Bill, 2010. The Bill seeks to regulate the dairy industry in Zambia in order to develop an efficient and self-sustaining dairy industry that meets the modern technological, scientific and socio-economic demands. The Bill further seeks to enhance milk production in Zambia in order to fully utilise the capacity of milk processing facilities as a way of contributing positively towards poverty alleviation, household food security and employment creation. 

Mr Speaker, all the witnesses that appeared before your Committee supported the Dairy Industry Development Bill. In supporting this Bill, your Committee urge the House to consider the issues highlighted in the report. 

Sir, your Committee note from the Bill that there are a number of shortcomings in the manner that the Bill has been drafted. Your Committee has laboured to identify these lapses which are highlighted in your Committee’s Report. Some of these include inconsistencies in the definitions, inclusions of clauses that relate to the wider livestock industry and other clauses that do not support ideals meant for the development of the dairy industry. 

Arising from their deliberations, your Committee recommend that the composition of the board being proposed in the Bill be reconsidered as some players in the critical dairy industry have been excluded. The Bill proposes the inclusion of representation from the veterinary side who are concerned with the curative part while leaving out the producers and processors. Your Committee is of the view that these are the most important players in the dairy industry and thus need to sit on the board. 

Mr Speaker, the Bill proposes some stiff punitive measures to persons convicted of offences under the Act. These include punishments such as imprisonment and forfeiture to the State of their dairy animals. Your Committee view this provision as being misplaced as it contradicts the objects of the Bill. No meaningful development will take place if farmers are threatened with forfeiture of their dairy animals.

In conclusion, may I, again, thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee the opportunity to study and scrutinise the Bill. Your Committee are also indebted to the witnesses who appeared before them and tendered both oral and written submissions. Your Committee also appreciate the services rendered by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this chance to debate on this very important Bill. I must confess that I am a Member of this Committee and there are two points that I would want to put across. 

Mr Speaker, if this Bill is to come into effect and reduce poverty in this country, we need to support the people that are trying to develop this industry. Right now, there are some companies which are dependant on imported powdered milk. I have in mind Finta Milk and Clover which are based in Livingstone. 
When these two companies were starting out, Finta Milk requested for the tariff on imported powdered milk to be reduced from 25 per cent to 5 per cent. The agreement was for two years. However, it has been thirteen years now and they are still paying 5 per cent. This means that the Government is losing 20 per cent revenue. 

 Mr Speaker, if we are to promote the dairy industry in Zambia, there is a need to raise the tariff back to 25 per cent. If anything, this company must pay the difference for the eleven years it has not been paying the 25 per cent. We cannot develop if we are dependant on products coming from outside. Let us develop from what we have within the country. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the forfeiture of animals, let me emphasise, like the chairperson said, will kill the industry because it takes a long time for a person to raise an animal. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: It is, therefore, important that the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development considers moving the amendments as recommended by your Committee because we need to promote the livestock industry in Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.    

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to debate. I will be very brief. 

Mr Speaker, I am concerned with Clause 16 − (Refusal to register by the board). I think that seven days is too short. I know that your Committee has recommended fourteen days. However, I wish to recommend twenty-one days because for them to refuse to register somebody means that there are things which that person has not done well. 

  It is not just a matter of appealing to the hon. Minister. I have to put things in order because I have to make sure I put everything in the right place for the animals. I, therefore, do not think that seven days is enough for me to go to the bank to negotiate for money, get that money and then build the house which the board wants me to build or buy the feed and do the other things. I feel that seven days is not enough. Therefore, I would request, if possible, the hon. Minister to consider the twenty-one days because for them to refuse, it means that there things that I need to do which I might not be able to do in seven or fourteen days.

 The other observation is on Clause 18 – (Validity of Certificate of Registration), where that we are going to renew our membership in two years and then renew it again for a further two years. Does it mean that we are going to be dairy farmers for four years only? What happens two years after the renewal? Why can we not become permanent dairy farmers so that we only need to register once? If the board wants, we can be paying subscription fees. That would be better, but for them to say, we renew for another two years only then keep quiet, I find that a bit troubling for us, dairy farmers.

Mr Speaker, those were my observations and I thank you.

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members of this House and your Committee for their support. We have taken note of the concerns that some hon. Members may have had with the Bill.  We anticipate that we shall have no problems in addressing these issues that have been raised. In the interest of consensus and in view of the fact that this Bill is non-controversial, we expect that we should have no problems progressing with it further. 

With those few remarks, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th March, 2010.

THE DAIRY PRODUCE BOARD (Establishment) (Repeal) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the objective of this Bill is simply to repeal the Dairy Produce Establishment Act which contains two clauses whose forms are already addressed in the other legislation.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Dairy Produce Board (Establishment) (Repeal) Bill, 2010. The Bill seeks to repeal the Dairy Produce Board (Establishment) Act Cap.235 of the Laws of Zambia.

Sir, you may be aware that the privatisastion programme in Zambia led to the dismantling of the Dairy Produce Board. This led to the setting up of the private sector driven dairy processing enterprises.

Sir, as a result of this, the Dairy Produce Board is currently non-existent although it is still provided for through Cap. 235 of the Laws of Zambia. The Act has thus become redundant as it has no structures to regulate. In addition, the Act has been overtaken by global international trends of promoting and regulating the dairy industry.

Sir, your Committee, therefore, welcome the repeal of Cap. 235 and urge the House to pass this Bill. The repeal of this Act will pave way for the enactment of more progressive dairy industry development legislation.

Mr Speaker, may I, again, thank you, for affording your Committee an opportunity to study this Bill. Your Committee are also indebted to the witnesses who appeared before them and tendered both oral and written submissions. Your Committee also appreciate the services rendered by the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, we are most obliged for the overwhelming support of the House.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th March, 2010.

THE DAIRY PRODUCE MARKETING AND LEVY (Repeal) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the rationale for the repeal of this Act is that it is archaic and was enacted in 1962. It has since been overtaken by various developments in the diary industry. The repeal of this Act is as a result of archaic provisions therein and with the proposed Dairy Industry Development Bill, the provisions in this Act will be duly addressed.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.  

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Dairy Produce Marketing and Levy (Repeal) Bill, 2010. The Bill seeks to repeal the Dairy Produce, Marketing and Levy Act, Cap. 234 of the laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the Dairy Produce Marketing and Levy Act was enacted in 1962 with the purpose of making provisions that would operationalise and prescribe functions of the Dairy Produce Board. It also provided regulations for the marketing of dairy produce as well as the imposition and collection of levies on certain dairy produce.

The proposed repeal of the Act is long over due and has been welcomed by all stakeholders from whom your Committee sought comments from. The stakeholders were in agreement that this piece of legislation is archaic and has been overtaken by various developments in the dairy industry.

Sir, therefore, your Committee, welcome the repeal of Cap. 234 and urge the House to pass this Bill. As a consequence of the repeal of the Dairy Produce Marketing and Levy Act, a more elaborate legislation will be enacted to foster the development of the dairy industry in Zambia.  

Mr Speaker, may I, again, thank you for affording your Committee the opportunity to study the Bill. Your Committee are also indebted to the witnesses who appeared before them and tendered both oral and written submissions. Your Committee also appreciate the services rendered by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly.

 Mr Speaker I thank you.

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, once again, we are obliged and most grateful for the overwhelming support of the House.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a send time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th March, 2010.

REPORT STAGE

The Public Interest Disclosure (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill, 2010

Report adopted.

Third reading on Tuesday, 23rd March, 2010.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Local Government (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1158 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 23rd March, 2010.