DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday 26th March, 2009

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

FEES CHARGED BY TEVETA

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a statement to the House on the fees charged by the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship  Training Authority (TEVETA) which is the regulatory body for the skills training sector under my ministry. 

The fees are charged in accordance with Section 4 (2) of the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) (Amendment) Act No. 11 of 2005. As provided for under this Act, TEVETA is mandated to charge and collect fees in respect of registration of training institutions, conducting examinations and assessments, quality standards and other services that the authority provides. 

Mr Speaker, as hon. Members may be aware, the TEVET Act I mentioned earlier allows TEVETA to source financing through Government grants, donor funds, registration of institutions and other income-generating activities. Since the establishment of TEVETA, it has, in the past, relied heavily on donor financing for its operations. Due to this support from our co-operating partners, most of the activities such as registration of institutions and conducting examinations were heavily subsidised. This financing from our co-operating partners, unfortunately, came to an end in 2009 and it became imperative for the authority to begin charging economic fees for the services that it provides.

In addition to the funds from the co-operating partners, TEVETA also receives an annual Government grant appropriated by this Parliament. This grant, however, is inadequate to meet all its operational needs given the competing demands on the Treasury. The authority also raises its own financing by charging fees for the services it provides. 

Mr Speaker, in determining the level of fees charged by TEVETA, my ministry goes through a thorough process of consultation. The TEVETA fee structure, as approved by my ministry, therefore, takes into account the Government’s social responsibilities as well as the financing needs TEVETA. For instance, the highest fee for institutional registration was set at K5 million for a period of three years. This amounts to an average of K1.7 million per year. 

Further, to cushion training institutions which are unable to meet the full cost of registration, the institutions have been allowed to pay the fees over a two or three-year period.

Mr Speaker, allow me now to mention the types of fees that TEVETA charges. 

Mr Speaker, TEVETA has started the accreditation of academic programmes in 2010. Institutions are, therefore, required to renew the accreditation of the programmes they offer. This process will be conducted on a yearly basis and institutions are, therefore, required to ensure that the programmes that they offer are accredited. The following is the fee structure for the registration of training institutions and accreditation of training programmes:

(i)    Application for registration of a training institute (three-year period) ─ K5,000,000;

(ii)    application by institutions to offer Diploma/Technologist Programme (per year) ─ K500, 000;

(iii)    accreditation of institutions to offer Advanced Technician Programme (per programme per year) ─ K400,000;

(iv)    accreditation of institutions to offer Certificate/Craft Programme (per programme per year) ─ K300,000;

(v)    accreditation of institutions to offer Trade Test Certificate Programme (per programme per year) ─ K200,000; and

(vi)    accreditation of institutions to offer short courses ( per programme for one year) ─ K500,000.

Mr Speaker, all foreign examination boards are required by the TEVET Act to seek accreditation by TEVETA before they conduct examinations and award qualifications in Zambia. The following are the accreditation fees:

(i)    accreditation of foreign examination boards (three year period) ─ K15,000,000;

(ii)    accreditation of foreign examination centres (per year) ─ K1,000,000; and

(iii)    accreditation of local examination centres (per year) ─ K500,000.

Mr Speaker, training providers should ensure that all the lecturers and trainers teaching at the respective institutions are accredited with TEVETA. Accreditation of personnel in the TEVET Sector is intended to assure and raise the quality of training. The accreditation of trainers, assessors and examiners started in 2009. 

Mr Speaker, the following are the accreditation fees for trainers, assessors and examiners:

(i)    accreditation of trainer (two year period) ─ K200,000;

(ii)    accreditation of assessor (two year period) ─ K200,000; and

(iii)    accreditation of examiner (two year period) ─ K200,000

Mr Speaker, TEVETA develops and updates curricula in order to ensure that training is in phase with technological developments in the industry. Training institutions are therefore required to use approved curricula. Sir, TEVETA seeks the curricula in order to off-set a portion of the development and review costs. The cost of curriculum development and curriculum review is far in excess of the cost at which training providers purchase these approved documents. The following are the costs of curricula:

(a)    sale of national curriculum ─ K250,000 per curriculum

(b)    approval of local curricular ─ K250,000

Examination Fees

Mr Speaker, TEVETA is taking over the conduct of TEVET examinations from the examinations council of Zambia as per mandate of the TEVET Act. This is a process which begun in 2008 and it is expected that the transfer of the examinations function will be completed by 2011. Although students are expected to pay examination fees, the cost of preparing and conducting examinations is heavily dependent on financing from Government. Student contribution to the preparation and conduct of examinations amounts to less than 10 per cent o the total cost.

The following examinations fees are applicable:

Type of Fee                                                 Amount
                                                                         (K)

Students registration per student                 15,000
Examination fee per theoretical 
Subject                                                           50,000
Examination per practical subject                  75,000
Examination entry fee                                     15,000

Mr Speaker, the Government has noted that there has been a proliferation of people getting qualifications from foreign examination bodies and even from the internet. My ministry is in the process of introducing the TEVET Qualification Framework (TQF) which will make it mandatory to register such qualifications. The introduction of the TQF has reached an advanced stage and is just waiting for Cabinet approval.

Sir, trade testing centres have been identified in all districts of Zambia. With the support of our accredited assessors, learners will have easy access to trades testing centres throughout the country. These trade testing centres provide for assessment and certification of skills and competences that have been acquired through different modes of learning, including traditional apprenticeships. Learners are expected to contribute towards the cost of preparation and conduct of trade tests. The following trade test fees are applicable:

    Level         Fee per Sitting
                           (K)

     I                      95,000
    II                       50,000
    
     III                      55,000

Mr Speaker, I now want to inform this august House about the penalties that will be charged to institutions for defaulting. TEVETA will ensure that training providers and examination boards comply with minimum standards by instituting sanctions for non-compliance. This action has been taken primarily to protect the interest of learners. The following sanctions are applicable:

Default                                Penalty
                                (K)

 Illegal operation as a training institution             10,000,000
    
Illegal operation as an examination centre
for an unaccredited foreign examination body        2,000,000 

Use of unaccredited trainers                 500,000 per trainer

Use of unauthorised curriculum                 500,000

Mr Speaker, as can be observed from my statement, the fees that have been introduced and are being charged by the authority are in line with their mandate as provided for by the TEVET Act. The fees are also only effected after consultations with my ministry. As indicated in my presentation, the penalties are meant to instill compliance and are, therefore, avoidable by the institutions who will comply. They are also meant to protect the interest of the learners.

The fees will continue to remain within the manageable range for institutions as long as all stakeholders agree on the long-term financing for the skills training sector. To ensure this long-term financing, my ministry is engaging the stakeholders to support the introduction of the training levy which is critical in financing the sector. Consultations on what will be the best mechanism for collecting the levy and the incentives which will accrue to those who will be compliant are on-going.

In conclusion, I would like to assure the House and the nation that this Government is determined to make a difference in the way we approach skills development for the country and the introduction of the fees will provide part of the long-term financing of this important sector.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been made by the hon. Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister how many inspectors are employed by TEVETA to check on the standards in private institutions where currently, the quality is very poor.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the issue of examiners is a yearly event because it requires accreditation and the demand of the training programmes. Therefore, it varies from year to year.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi):  Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the Government is doing to prevent young local institutions which might not be able to pay those fees from going into oblivion so that they can provide the necessary skills.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, when one looks at the fees that I have read out, one sees that one way of assisting the emerging institutions is to spread the payment period. TEVETA does not insist on the payment of these fees at once. We believe that any skills training centre, as one of the trade testing institutions, can surely be able to afford a K200,000 per year. For example, if they charge K10,000 per student and they have 200 students, surely, they should be able to pay K200,000 per year.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Government on the fees and the products provided by these institutions. In the past, students used to get paid by the Government. This was at a time when those in Government did not have degrees. Since those in Government today are more educated, we need to know when they are going to turn things around so that students are paid in order to encourage them get educated.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I take it that the hon. Member for Chimwemwe is probably referring to apprenticeship. These students are going there to obtain knowledge and skills. Therefore, those providing the knowledge and skills need to be paid for their services.

Mr Speaker, in fact, any fees that will have to be charged have to arise from the Act this very House formulated. Since those fees are not in the Act, then, there are no fees that the students are paid because after all, they are acquiring a life skill.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is any service that is offered free of charge in terms of registration and accreditation considering economic difficulties. If so, I would like to know which groups fall under this service.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as I have read out in my statement, there are no services offered for free. As I earlier mentioned, one way to cushion this aspect is the spread of the fees which are minimal. As I mentioned earlier, one way of cushioning this aspect, is the spread of the fees that are, really, minimal. The Government subsidises a large percentage of the fees. This is why even the examination fees are as low as they are.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister said that the Government would ask E-learning providers to be accredited. I would like to know what mechanism is going to be used to capture international E-learning providers.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this will be done through the TEVET qualifications framework. When the learners present their certificates to institutions, it is important that they are certified by TEVETA. If they are not on the list of examination boards or board centres then, of course, the qualifications or certifications will not be recognised. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpombo (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that it was his intention to move the examination function from TEVETA to his ministry. I would like to find out what water tight arrangements he has put in place to ensure that there is no compromising of examination standards.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I did not say anything of that nature. What I said was that examinations will be moved from the Examinations Council of ZAMBIA to TEVETA because that is the mandate given to TEVETA as per Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Ministry use certificate holders with long experience in industrial work to help in training the students in TEVETA institutions rather than using lecturers with less experience.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank my colleague who is an advocate of TEVET and training in science. There is, indeed, a reservoir of very experienced instructors out there, but for them to be able to give instructions, it is important that they are assessed and accredited. Only then shall we be sure that these very experienced instructors will not have fallen behind technological advancement.

Mr Speaker, one sure way of ensuring standards is to accredit this very valuable human resource we have in our community so that, in turn, we can be assured of quality trained graduates who will meet the needs of the ever changing technology in industry.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

OPERATIONS OF THE ROAD DEVELOPMENT AGENCY

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for granting me permission to make a Ministerial Statement on the operations of the Road Development Agency (RDA).

Mr Speaker, in the recent past, a number of issues have been raised on the operations of RDA through media reports as well as complaints from the general public. Some people have insinuated that RDA has failed to deliver to the people’s expectations. This is largely due to the poor state of the township and rural roads, especially on the Copperbelt and Lusaka. It has also been widely alleged that there is gross misappropriation of public resources at RDA, thereby making it impossible for the institution to deliver.
 
Mr Speaker, let me state, from the onset, that the ministry, which supervises RDA, welcomes constructive criticism. This is why I now wish to clarify the operations and management of RDA through this ministerial statement. I wish, by this statement, to clarify the operations and management of RDA.

Mr Speaker, I wish to say that RDA was established through an Act of Parliament No. 12 of 2002, which also established the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), to mobilise and disburse road funds and the Road Transport Safety Agency (RATSA) to look after the road safety aspects. Full operations of the agency began in 2006, as the Government had to pave way for the smooth transition from the Roads Department to RDA. Its operations and management are under the mandate of the Ministry of Works and Supply.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that since its inception, RDA has come up with annual work plans, predominantly aimed at clearing the backlog of maintenance and rehabilitation of the road network around the country. Using the highway management system, RDA has tried to optimise the type and size of roads to work on despite the inadequate funding allocations. This has made it extremely difficult for RDA to show meaningful gains on such a huge road network of approximately 67,000 km in so short a time. 

Even after optimising the core road network to 41,000 km, the allocated resources have failed to clear the huge backlog. My ministry has repeatedly told this august House that we need about K3 trillion annually to keep the core road network in a maintainable condition. However, this august House has only been able to approve about K1.2 trillion per annum in the past three years.

Admittedly, the implication of such low levels of funding is that RDA must reduce its core road network by half which, really, is not the solution. Alternately, the funding levels must be increased to enable the institution fulfil its mandate, knowing that roads are a prime engine of national economic growth. The need to double the funding levels for road infrastructure development cannot be over emphasised if RDA is to achieve the objectives of the Road Sector Investment Programme (ROADSIP) II by 2013. 

One way we can generate more funds for the sector is by introducing tolls on some of our very busy roads. My Government has advertised for interested investors to install tollgates on some of our roads.

Mr Speaker, the business of road construction costs a lot all over the world. Due to the colossal sums required, the RDA annual work plans cannot afford to be structured on the basis of completing project works in one fiscal year given the funds available. The only reasonable approach that RDA has taken is to procure works on a rolling basis. That is works procured in one financial year are rolled over to subsequent years until completion.

Mr Speaker, lately, there have been expressions that this procurement approach amounts to over commitment by the Government. It is surprising where this new vocabulary has come from because the roll-over approach has been used since independence. To us, such is actually prudent procurement scheduling aimed at avoiding inefficient piece-meal procurement confined to annual budget lines. 

Let me remind the House that budget lines are merely estimates and do not necessarily reflect the actual contract sums which are only determined after tenders have been opened and evaluated.

The concern that this over procurement will result in accumulation of debt to contractors is valid. We do not want to get back to debt arising from unpaid certificates and penalties that not only cost the Government more, but also erodes confidence in the contracting industry. RDA has to manage this situation well and the Government has, to this effect, provided the required finances to complete the stalled projects. For example, the Kasama/Luwingu, Choma/Chitongo, Kasempa Turn-Off to Kabompo roads that had placed undue pressure on the budget for roads in the past many years shall be completed within the next two years.

Mr Speaker, to expedite the procurement process, the Zambia Public Procurement Agency (ZPPA) has increased the RDA threshold for procurement of works to K40 billion which has contributed to the efficiency and effectiveness of procurements. 

Mr Speaker, the Zimba/Livingstone Road is one source of concern. RDA takes full responsibility for procuring the first 30 km which is Government financed. However, the National Authorising Office of the European Union (NAO/EU) presided over the procurement of the next 42 km, as the National Authorising Authority is the contracting authority on behalf of EU. RDA should be commended for having taken proactive steps to commence the construction of the road and not blamed for escalations that were occasioned by other authorities.

It is the considered view of the ministry that the management of RDA has performed above expectation in comparison with the available funding levels to the road sector. An asset preservation strategy is being emphasised in the annual work plans for construction of new roads which remain the responsibility of the Government under capital projects. This is in line with ROADSIP II.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that since the RDA management commenced its work, emphasis has been placed on completing the stalled projects. Rehabilitation of the Chipata/Lundazi Road Phase I has been completed and RDA has commenced plans for completing the remaining section. The rehabilitation of the Zimba/Livingstone Road will be completed later this year, while periodic maintenance of the Katete/Mwami, Katete/Chanida, Mongu/Senanga and Lusaka/Kabwe roads have all been completed. The Government, through RDA, has also advanced arrangements for the commencement of works on the Mongu/Kalabo Road after the floods this year, while works on the Solwezi/Mwinilunga Road are ongoing. 

In addition, to support the heavy economic investments in the Roma and Chamba Valley area, my ministry secured K8 billion to construct a new 4 km tarmac road to extend Zambezi Road. These are just examples of the works RDA has been able to do.

Currently, the Government is assisting RDA with the pending rehabilitation of the Great North Road from Serenje to Nakonde. You will note that in anticipation of funding, the agency procured works for the road, but could not commence due to lack of funds. The result is what we see now as badly deteriorated roads. It is, therefore, not right to condemn the Ministry of Works and Supply or RDA when the finances available do not allow for works to be carried out.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the recent heavy rainfall which has damaged a lot of our road infrastructure, I am satisfied to state that RDA has risen to the occasion and worked very closely with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the Vice-President’s Office, Rural Roads Unit (RRU) and Zambia defence forces, to reinstate crossing structures and washed away sections of roads though temporarily. For example, RDA has ensured that works on the recently collapsed Sinazongwe/Sinazeze Road are commenced. This road carries very heavy loads of coal and farm produce, but their safety can only be guaranteed once K30 billion is found to work on the drainage along the road.

Mr Speaker, let it be known that emergency works are procured outside of the normal procurement process. There is no way something unusual can be resolved using normal routines. ZPPA is always made aware of every procurement after remedying the emergency and these should vouch that all requisites were followed in the end.

Mr Speaker, before I conclude my statement, allow me to remind this august House and the nation that we are a Government of laws and will not do anything that is not in compliance with our laws. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: We respect the rights of citizens.

Mr Speaker, in view of the above, it is out of context for anybody to call for punitive action to be taken against an officer or leader without cogent evidence of wrong doing. I am, therefore, inviting anybody with cogent evidence to bring it forth. Zambia is not one of the nations which sweep any wrongdoings under the carpet.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Similarly, we do not take arbitrary action against anybody, as that is against our Constitution. The Constitution protects everybody. Therefore, and no action shall be taken against anyone without evidence just because one section of the community, be it local or foreign, misperceives a situation.

Mr Speaker, I would like to mention that I have personally read the Draft Auditor-General’s Report on the audit of RDA and I have had the opportunity to speak with the Auditor-General. I am satisfied that the report has not established any theft or impropriety at RDA, contrary to the expectations and speculations in some quarters of our society. Based on what I have read, I can confirm to our co-operating partners that there is no bombshell to expect out of the audit of RDA. Admittedly, there are some system failures, but this is in the nature of a developing and growing institution. The period that RDA has been in operation is just too short for one to judge them harshly. The men and women in the agency are of high integrity and need the support of their fellow countrymen and women. I, therefore, look forward to the speedy closure of the protracted audit process so that we can resume the suspended financial co-operation with our co-operating partners.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to urge the nation to give support and encouragement to RDA. We all need good roads in Zambia. Roads come at a price and my Government is working tirelessly to find the resources and, together with my ministry, RDA will get down to business immediately the rainy season is over.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may now raise questions on points of clarification on certain issues raised by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in his statement.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, one way we can improve the allocation of funds for roads is to change the way the fuel levy is collected. I would like to know when the Government is going to shorten that route because it is too long and is not transparent.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, on our part, just as the hon. Member is concerned about the fuel levy, we have gone beyond that. We have been seriously looking at the issue of setting up tollgates 

Once tollgates are set up, we will slowly phase out the fuel levy so that the tollgates can take over the collection of the necessary resources to maintain our roads. In the meantime, we need money to build and maintain roads. Therefore, the fuel levy will continue to be used as a way of collecting resources. However, as far as transparency in the collection and use of fuel levy is concerned, I do not think I am competent enough to comment on that because my ministry does not handle fuel levy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, I just want clarification from the hon. Minister on the fuel levy. He mentioned that the underperformance of RDA is, by and large, due to poor budgetary allocations. Is it possible to reconsider the fuel levy being used solely as a vehicle for the maintenance or construction of roads, as was the case at its inception? We were made to believe that the fuel levy was introduced to better our roads and tollgates may just be another gimmick  …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of any other use of fuel levy than what it was intended for. I would be surprised that the concept of tollgates, which has worked so well all over the world, can be used as a gimmick. I do not even know what the hon. Member means by referring to it as such, but I would like to assure him that it is a lawful way of raising funds. There are many trucks that pass on our roads from South Africa, Zimbabwe and Botswana to the Congo and elsewhere and most of them are using our roads free of charge. So we would like to tap into that and raise funds by establishing tollgates and, therefore, it is not a gimmick at all.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister what he is doing, in very practical terms, to reduce the pressure of over procurement due to the backlog on work on our roads.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, in my statement I was very categorical. It is not possible for us to contract on a yearly basis. So, what we normally do, for instance, if we have a project that is going to last for three years, is enter into a three year contract. However, the release of funds is based on the cash flow on an annual basis as appropriated by this House. It would be very inefficient of any institution, every year, to enter into contracts for a project that will last for three years. I do not think it makes economic sense. 

The sensible thing to do is to make one procurement that will last for three years. Contractors, however, know that we have insufficient funds to pay for projects all at once plus they have limited capacity to do a three year project in one year. Therefore, there is no over commitment. It is just a mere perception that when we sign a three year contract, the Government must produce money there and then. We are conscious of the fact that we have cash flow constraints and every contractor is aware of the fact that money will be made available according to our annual work plan. We also recognise contractors’ capacity to do the work in a given year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, in his ministerial statement, the hon. Minister said that the problem is not with the RDA, but rather the supply of funds. He did not, however, mention that the cost of doing roads is very high. The question that I have always been asking and has never been answered …

Mr Speaker: Order! You must ask the question now.

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister tell us what he has done so far to reduce the cost of working on roads in Zambia because we are being swindled by the road contractors as well as by the RDA, which has added to the cost of doing roads.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I should take advantage of this opportunity to help the hon. Member who is belabouring an issue which is clearly market driven. In my statement, I said that the Government procured 30 kilometres of the road from Zimba to Livingstone. The cost of that part was different from the other 42 kilometres that remained.  The latter was more was more expensive. I would like to inform the House that a few years ago, the Government requested the donor community to help fund the cost of doing the road from Monze to Livingstone. At the time, the cost of the whole project was around US$8 million. Our co-operating partners procrastinated and, therefore, the monies were not available. What happened in the end was that the Government decided to start the project on its own. 

By the time the Government did the Zimba/Livingstone Road, the cost had risen considerably. So the Government started by working on the 30 kilometre part. When our co-operating partners came in to work on the remaining 42 kilometres, the cost had escalated to 35 million euros. This information has even been in global papers and people have questioned these differences. Since we have now opened up the market and given confidence to our local contractors, the latest cost per kilometre now is coming to as low as K1.9 billion. The 42 kilometres part on the way to Livingstone costs K6 billion per kilometre.

So, nobody can claim that if they procured road works, it will be cheaper than what we are doing right now. I have given the example of the last 42 kilometres on the way to Livingstone, which has cost 35 million euros compared to what the Government financed which was much cheaper. Therefore, I would like to assure Hon. Mushili that his perception that there is a deliberate intention to defraud the Government is a misconception because the procurement process involves a number of institutions such as the Zambia Public Procurement Agency (ZPPA), RDA and so on. With the emphasis that there must be transparency, how is it possible that one or two people can sway the terms of a contract in their favour?

The World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF) and other co-operating partners have agreed with the Government that every project must be advertised and contractors must be allowed to compete. Once contractors have submitted their bids, the opening of bids is done in an open and transparent way so that all the contractors who participated can see how they faired. They can see who the lowest or highest was. The evaluation is done in a transparent manner so that when anybody has got a complaint, they can go back and check the records. 

Therefore, we can even begin to suspect that, maybe, Hon. Mushili’s statement is motivated by other reasons because he is free to come to our offices or go to those of the ZPPA. However, when he continues to cast aspersions at institutions that we created in this House, the people working for these institutions will be demoralised. The reason we created these institutions was that the roads department, at the time, did not have the capacity to maintain roads. This House found it fit to put in place a law that brought about the birth of the RDA and if ever there is anything that is wrong, hon. Members have a right to come and see us at our offices. 

We should not continuously stand on the Floor of this House and disparage the institutions that we created on our own. Anything that we see is wrong can only be rectified by going to these institutions so that together we can tend to those issues. So, I can assure the House that nobody would feel comfortable to see resources of the State being taken away without being applied for the purpose they were intended. I want to clearly state that we are people of integrity and we would like to protect that integrity at the end of the day.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said we need K3 trillion to rehabilitate 67,000 kilometers of our roads. He also said that in the last three years, this House has given this ministry K3 trillion. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many kilometers of the 67,000 has been done using this K3 trillion that has been given in the last three years.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I have given examples of the roads that have been attended to and stated that this is exercise is a continuous one. For instance, we have had heavy rainfalls, this year, which saw gravel roads being washed away and we need to deploy the same amounts of money to rehabilitate these roads. The ultimate end is that if you are able to develop those roads to bituminous levels, tarring will be much cheaper for you to maintain them in the year. However, for as long as they remain gravel, it is a challenge. Let me inform the House that only about 7000 kilometers of the road network is tarred while the rest of is gravel. So, you can imagine the challenge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, while congratulating the Government for assuring the people of Lundazi that the Chipata-Lundazi Road will be worked on. I would like to know when tenders will be flouted for the resurfacing of the remaining portion of the road between Chipata and Lundazi and who will finance the resurfacing?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Member that we have been very active in doing feasibility studies on that stretch of the road. Whether it is Government money or money from co-operating partners, at a time when it is appropriate, it will be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, we, as hon. Members of Parliament, have been told every now and then that we need to have the roads worked on using K600 million for Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I would, therefore, like to find out from the hon. Minister how many kilometers of road that can be worked on with the K600 million. 

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the difficulty I have is that I have repeatedly stated on several occasions to hon. Members of this House that they are also councillors in their respective councils and that for those councils to tick and raise funds they require your leadership and participation. I do not know why we should spend our time just talking about the CDF as the only money available to you.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am a worried person in that commercial ventures have nothing to do with the hon. Members until they get the K600 million as CDF …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, any hon. Member of Parliament with enterprise and ingenuity should be able to raise funds to enable him or her complete projects in his or her constituency.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: If you are going to rely on the K600 million from this House, it is an indication that it was a mistake to bring you here.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that there are no funds to repair the Great North Road from Serenje to Nakonde, but, as a Government, what other means or options are they applying to prevent further loss of lives on this road?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, at no point did I say that nothing is being done. The Provincial Road Engineer, with staff, has been busy intervening in those areas that needed urgent attention. It is a resurfacing of the whole road from Serenje to Nakonde where we have got a bit of difficulties. However, in as far as interventions where there are pothole patching and rehabilitation on some section of the road are concerned, that is being done. I would like to assure the hon. Member that I did not say that nothing is being done. All I said was that, the cost of resurfacing from Serenje to Nakonde is quite colossal, but interventions at a level that will make the road pssable are being made.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, standard procedure requires that one institution, especially a serious one like the Government, does not go to tender blindly. This means that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: As the Government goes to tender, what value per kilometer of roads does it have before it goes to tender for tarring a road?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for that question. Let me clarify. This is a market driven arrangement and donors such as the IMF and World Bank require us to have a public tender and the contractors in their competition dictate price. Therefore, as a Government, even if we want them to do it at K1 billion per kilometer, if the market does not support it, through the players, I can tell you that it is a waste of time. There is no way the Government can go in there blindly because it plays in a market where there is competition and the regulations as agreed upon by the IMF, World Bank, the Government and other co-operating partners are that it must be market driven undertaking. If it was a question of us contracting through single sourcing only, it would be possible for you to negotiate with the contractor. Unfortunately, the current situation is that it is open tender and the market will be dictated through competition. Therefore, the question of blindness does not arise.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to come out clearly because, in the past four years, we have been hearing about the toll gates. I would like the hon. Minister to come out clearly when this Government is going to have political will to have, at least, one toll gate among the busy roads as a way of utilising resources allocated to the RDA.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, establishing toll gates is not an easy matter. As a Government, we have social obligations as well. Therefore, the question that arises is whether it is everybody who can afford to pay when going through those toll gates. We have to build alternative routes for those who cannot afford. For those of you who have travelled, you will notice that before you approach a toll gate, there are roads that deviate from the main road. They are longer than the main road, but since you cannot afford to pay to move quickly using a shorter route where there is a toll gate, you have to go through those roads. We have also taken into consideration that there are people who could be living in that vicinity who might use that toll gate everyday so what are you going to do to mitigate that cost? Therefore, it is a matter that has to be studied very carefully.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) time, they had built small structures along the roads as toll gates, which were later smashed because they proved not to be the right thing. I know in the neighbouring country on the South, they have just put up a tent and some barriers and started charging, but the difficulties that have arisen is that there are duplicate receipts that have emerged, which has made the whole programme difficult. I would like to assure you that through the private-public-partnership (PPP), we are seriously discussing with the investors who would want to participate in the construction of toll gates. For instance, we are thinking of constructing a road from Chirundu passing through Leopards Hill into Chisamba to shorten the route and also decongest Kafue. In other words, we are thinking very seriously, as a serious Government. We will not just wake up and start digging small places and then say these are toll gates. We want to put up things that will make us proud and user friendly. We want a toll plaza which will have a police post, shop, guest house and other amenities that will make life easy for people who work there. Also if your vehicle is impounded, you should have somewhere to sleep.

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, what is the significance of having the National Roads Fund Agency when the ministry can disburse funds directly to RDA as way of cutting down on costs?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, well, I have no way of condemning any institution but, like I said, the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA), Roads Development Agency (RDA), Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA) are a creation of this House. If this House wants to change and remove one of these institutions, the decision will be entirely up to this House to amend the law.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned, in his ministerial statement, that the Kasama/Luwingu Road would be completed within the next twenty-four months. 

A phone rang from the Gallery

Mr Speaker: Please, seize that device. 

Hon. Members: It is upstairs.

Mr Speaker: Oh! It is upstairs!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Let a messenger go up there. 

Hon. Member: It is being done.

Mr Speaker: Okay, it is being done.
The hon. Member for Kasama Central may continue.

Mr Mwamba: Mr Speaker, in his ministerial statement, the hon. Minister indicated that the Kasama/Luwingu Road, which has been much talked about and not been tarred for the last forty-five years, would be completed within the next twenty-four months. First and foremost, I would like to thank the hon. Minister ...

Mr Speaker: Order! We did go through this on Monday, 22nd March, 2010 and we are not learning. Please, ask your follow up question?

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mwamba: Sir, when will a contractor get on site and when exactly will he complete and how much has been the estimated cost?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, thank you for the compliment. The contractor has always been on site because it is an on-going project. The delay was on account of funding. The contractor has been assured that funding will be made available and that he has been given marching orders to complete the project because I am sure just as you are tired as hon. Member, the people who live in that area, who want to use the road, are even more impatient. We are going to ensure, as a working Government, to complete that part and ultimately start moving from Luwingu to Mansa so that the North-South Corridor is complete.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, contractors have complained about the period between the time they lodge in their documents to construct roads and the time the contract is actually awarded. The hon. Minister has also confirmed ...

Mr Speaker: Order! Once you go into the second sentence, then you are debating. What is your question?

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, what is the ministry doing about shortening the period between the time the bids are submitted and the time that contracts are awarded which is why there is a price shift as confirmed by the hon. Minister?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, in our contracting process, all the contractors participate. They visit the sites and are told the timeframes. For instance, they are told that procurement or selection of a contractor can be done in advance so that as soon as the funds are made available, after Parliament has approved, the contracts are signed for them to commence the works. We do not sign those contracts in advance for the simple reason that as soon as we sign the contract, the contractor begins to count the days, then they start claiming overtime and so on. Therefore, to prevent that, we agree with them that we are selecting them as a contractor, but not asking to go on site immediately because we wait for the approval of funds from Parliament. As soon as the House approves the funds, the contracts are signed so that the contractor shifts to the site. I do not know why a contractor who has been visiting in that manner would want to complain because what we are avoiding is that if we sign those contracts early, the contractor will turn around and say, “Yes, I have been idle. You signed this contract. You have to pay me idle time.” Now to prevent this, we always advise them to be patient once they are selected and, at an appropriate time, contracts are signed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, how are tender procedures for road construction done? Munali Constituency was given K48 billion ...

Mr Speaker: Order! You are debating.

You may continue.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, where has the K48 billion which was allocated to Munali Constituency for roads gone because the tender procedures were followed? I have just learnt from the hon. Minister that there was a budget estimate. Was the money not given?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, if you want lessons on procurement, we have the National Construction Council (NCC) created by this House. It teaches people how to participate in tender procedures and, so, I invite the hon. Member for Munali with her delegation to come.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Sir, as regards the K48 billion, I do not know what happened to it. The hon. Member should help me to find out where the money went because once money is approved, it is allocated to the appropriate institution either, through the Local Government, council, my ministry or, indeed, many other ministries. Since she is a concerned hon. Member, I would like to urge her to follow up the K48 billion because it was allocated. Where did it go?

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, why does the Government or ministry, at times, allocate contracts to bidders who undervalue projects and do shoddy works at the end of the day?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I said that the tendering process is competitive and, of course, the Government would like to maximise on the use of resources. If a contractor undervalues the estimates, the consequences are always there. If they fail to perform on account that they under budgeted in their bid, it becomes evident that they acted dishonestly. The implication is that, of course, they will fail and we will terminate the contract and, in future, we will have very serious consideration whether they should continue participating in the tendering process. You cannot eliminate them because it is a market driven process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, one area in which the Government uses a lot of money is through reworks and poor workmanship. What measures have been put in place by this Government to ensure that it reduces costs as a result of reworks?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, every project has got a number of stages. According to the regulations, the designer of the project is different. The supervising consultant is different and the contractor is also different. 

Now, because of that, the designer will put up plans and the supervising consultant will supervise. It depends on the integrity of the supervising contractor because, being human, sometimes, there is collusion, but the standards have already been set in the design and it is expected that the supervising consultant must ensure that the contractor is adhering to the laws. However, sometimes the supervising consultants are not on site because they have many projects to supervise so they are running around the country and Zambia is a big place. By the time they come back, the contractor would have done 10 kilometres of poor work. 

At the end of the day, it is very difficult for him to find out what has happened. These are some of the problems that they are facing. It is not that, as a Government, we are not interested, but we are following the regulations. The consulting supervisor is separate from the designing person. If it were possible to make the two in one, that would be more appropriate because the designer would like to protect his/her reputation by ensuring that even the contractor does the right thing. However, the co-operating partners have said no, we should have a different designer, supervisor and contractor.

I thank you, Sir.
________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, this question just requires His Honour the Vice-President to say no or yes. As a matter of State policies and reflecting back, do you ever regret that the Government did take Dr Chiluba and his colleagues to a London High Court where the State secured a favourable judgment?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The Chair will not assist His Honour the Vice-President and Learned Minister of Justice.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the simple answer is that this matter is subjudice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: That is exactly what the Chair meant.

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether the Government is aware that there are people going round this nation discrediting the Government through what they are calling the “Red-card Campaign”, totally ignoring the fact that this is a hardworking Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: They are alleging that this Government deserves a red card when it is busy working …

Mr Speaker: Order! What is your question?

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that there are people who are deliberately discrediting the Government via what they are calling the “Red-card Campaign” in order to bring down the Government? If so, what is the Government doing about it?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that is a matter for the law enforcement agencies. The police are alert and a similar offence is in court. Those who are doing that will face the consequences of the law.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Learned Minister of Justice when the Government will implement Section 136 of the Mines and Minerals Act of 2008.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

This is a matter of procedure and so the Chair will move in because you debated this yesterday. You cannot go back to issues that have been disposed of in this House.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the Government has promised that it will bring the Freedom of Information Bill to Parliament. When will this be done?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, it appears we do not have questions this morning.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I answered that particular question last week. I said that we were consulting and when we have concluded our consultations, we would decide whether or not to bring that Bill to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice shed some light on whether the Government is aware that the world is changing from analogue to digital computers? What is the Government doing about this and how much money has been allocated for that purpose?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that there is digital migration all over the world and Zambia is not an exception. As far as the Government is concerned, we have set up a task force to expedite the migration to digital. Of course, there are cost implications. For example, the other time I went to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to launch the TV2 and I was apprised of the colossal sums of money in US dollars required to migrate from analogue to digital. We are very conscious of that and we will be adapting as the technology advances.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that the role of the Inspector-General of Police and that of the Police and Prisons Commission are being infringed upon by the Polic-Public Complaints Authority. Is the Government not considering expunging the Police-Public Complaints Authority?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the role of the Police-Public Complaints Authority is defined in the law. This authority was established to receive complaints from members of the public on the conduct of police officers in relation to the observance of human rights. According to the law, there are times when they should make recommendations on disciplinary action although these are mere recommendations. However, there is a law that guides the offices of the Inspector-General of Police and Police and Prisons Service Commission that have the authority to discipline officers. Therefore, the jurisdictions of all these officers are well defined in the law. In fact, recently, we came back to this House to amend the law so that we define the roles, jurisdiction and powers of these institutions which we have mentioned.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of justice what progress has been recorded on the African Peer Review Mechanism.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker that is an important question. I would like to state that the African Peer Review Mechanism is progressing very well. Reports have been rendered on the research that has been conducted on the various thematic areas in terms of governance. That is political governance, economic governance, corporate governance and other thematic areas which are covered in the Peer Review Mechanism. The programme is such that it would be reviewed by June, 2010. Our President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, will appear to be reviewed before the African Union (AU) by his peers. That is what the process requires. That process is quite advanced and the National Governing Council has been performing its duties to expectations. We do not interfere in that process because it is totally independent. We hope that we can learn from the findings. 

Mr Speaker, I have attended various Peer Review Sessions of the AU where other countries have been peer reviewed. It is very interesting to learn from the strides which other countries have made so that at the end of the day, we can achieve milestones in the area of not only political but also economic governance. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, when is the Government going to revive the Mechanical Services Branch as a cost-saving measure because the private garages, where the Government takes its vehicles, are expensive and the jobs are not properly done? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, at the moment, there is no policy to revive that institution. This is a liberalised economy and we go through the public procurement process to determine which garages we should take particular motor vehicles to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the Zambian people have been crying for a Constitution that will stand the test of time. One of the ways in which we can come up with such a constitution is to subject the Constitution to a referendum. Could His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice tell the nation where and when the Mung’omba Draft Constitution will be subjected to a referendum?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is a member of the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … and he knows the law which we made about the Constitutional Review Process. Under the Act which has, in fact, come up for amendment during this Session, there are various options available. At the end of the process, members of the NCC will have to decide whether certain provisions should come to this House to the duly and legitimate representatives of the people. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: This will enable them decide whether certain amendments should be made to the Constitution. Of course, certain parts of the Constitution should be referred to a referendum, if we have to change them, for example, the Bill of Rights or Article 79 of the Constitution. If the NCC decides to change this part of the Constitution, they will have to be referred to a referendum but there are other parts too. In the NCC, you can as well decide to make amendments to certain parts, for example, those which relate to elections. If you want to have new provisions relating to elections, we can come here. We have the authority to change those parts so that we can have an election which is anchored on those provisions.

Therefore, the National Constitutional Conference Act has all the provisions which regulate how the process will go. You will be part of the decision-making process when we finally decide whether to take the entire Constitution to a referendum or bring substantially many parts of it to this House so that we can enact them straight away. The decision will be yours at the time it will be presented to the NCC.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, in 2008, we lost our beloved President, the late Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., in a foreign country. I was expecting this Government, at least, to set up a tribunal so that the nation could know what exactly happened. I would like the Vice-President and the Learned Minister of Justice to tell the House when this nation is going to be told exactly what happened unlike the speculations which are going round.

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the question is extremely vague and I have failed to comprehend it. I do not understand what the hon. Member meant by a tribunal.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, what has happened to the case of Zambian Airways? Was it merely intended to embarrass the owners of Zambian Airways or what? If not, why is the Government not apologising to the former owners of Zambian Airways which should be operational because Zambia desperately needs another airline?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the question of Zambian Airways is still under investigation both in Zambia and abroad. As you know, a lot of taxpayers’ money is the subject of investigation as to how it went into Zambian Airways. Therefore, the police and other investigative agencies are looking into this matter. The nation will be informed when investigations have been concluded. Sometimes, when there are extra territorial cases, investigations take time. Therefore, that particular inquiry is not closed. 

Sir, as you know, millions of dollars from public institutions went into Zambian Airways and the people of Zambia would like to know what happened to their money. So the police will only close this particular case once all lines of inquiry are exhausted and appropriate action will be taken if that will be deemed necessary, depending on what will come out of those investigations. 

Mr Speaker, in any case, Zambian Airways closed on its own. It is not the Government which closed it, but we are following up the issue of recovery of public funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and \minister of Justice who the new directors of the new Kasaba Bay are. How many Zambian employees have been retained and how many foreigners have been employed? 

The Vice-President President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, the hon. Member has taken me by surprise. To give a meaningful answer to the House, I will take note of this and look into this matter because I do not want to mislead the nation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, when His Excellency the President opened this session of Parliament, he told the nation that a Bill on grain marketing aimed at alleviating the marketing problems faced by the rural farmers would be brought before the House. I would like to know when, if at all, this Bill will be brought to the House? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, there are several Bills which we are drafting which will come to this House and that particular Bill is one of them. As I said during the seminar which we had recently, drafting of Bills is a continuous and tedious process.

We have a number of Bills being drafted. As you know, our laws in Zambia are archaic and outdated. We are getting representations from outside as well as from this august House to improve on our laws and we have a programme to reform our laws. Some laws relate to business licensing reforms so that we can reduce on the cost of doing business. In this area, we have several statutes which we are reviewing and are drafting. We should, therefore, be busy in terms of enacting laws in this House. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, President Banda and President Kikwete issued a memorandum last year that the Tanzania- Zambia Railways (TAZARA) should be concessioned. The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, last Friday, informed this House that a team of Chinese will be coming to Zambia to review the operations of TAZARA in order to revive it. Which of these two will come first? Can His Honour the Vice-President clarify these two very important issues?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we have been looking at the operations and efficiency of TAZARA. This matter was discussed by His Excellency the President when he went to China. As the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs reported, our debt, which we owed China on TAZARA, has been reduced by half. We are, therefore, looking at the operations of TAZARA and how we can streamline them. We will also look at whether it should be concessioned.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I wish to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice why, as a republic, we only own 2.9 per cent of Lumwana Mine, which is one of the biggest mines in the country.
 
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I cannot confirm our shareholding in Lumwana Mine. I can check on the exact shareholding. We, however, made some agreements on our shareholding which is owned by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) as is the practice in all the mines that we retain shareholding. I cannot, however, confirm the figure. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice assure this nation that the scientific and technological support that had been solicited through the State visit to China, especially in the areas of mining and agro industry, will not be ignored but used as a catalytic quantum to the economic development of Zambia? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, all the aid and assistance, technical or otherwise, that we are receiving from China is of value to Zambia. There are various benefits we are getting because of our interaction with china. We are making economic M-phases and developing our industrial base. We are also benefiting in several other areas. I must assure the hon. Member that this will not be ignored. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, very quickly, can His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice clarify the reasons for having the census this year? Is it with a view to a referendum amid falsehood circulating that the purpose of the 2010 Census is different from the usual exercise we hold? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the Census which we are undertaking now is the usual one we conduct every ten years. Of course the statistics which come out of it can be used for several purposes, including the referendum which the hon. Member mentioned. This helps us determine the number of persons who are eligible to be registered as voters. As you know, this is the threshold which we are supposed to use in any referendum which we conduct under the Constitution. We can also use those statistics for economic planning and determination of our population so that we can prepare for infrastructure development and provision of health and education services. 
    
Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice what the situation is concerning floods throughout the country and how many people have died as a result of the floods. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we are still collecting data. The situation is desperate in certain parts of the country such as the Eastern, Central and Lusaka provinces. However, we are getting the necessary statistics so that we can analyse the situation and determine what immediate response we can give to it. This is a countrywide approach where we are looking at statistics. Information is flowing in and the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) officers have gone to all the parts of the country to get this particular information so that we can use it in our planning. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President  and Minister of Justice state when the Government will decongest prisons, especially Chimbokaila, which is only supposed to accommodate 400 prisoners instead of  the 1,400 at the moment? 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we have existing mechanisms in place. Through this House, we amended the Prisons Act to establish a Parole Board. Through this board, cases have been reviewed and people have been released from prisons. The President also has power to release prisoners. We have given amnesties before to decongest prisons and this is a continuous process. We will continue to look at conditions in prisons and how best we can manage the numbers.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I would like to know what role the Zambian Government is playing through SADC to ensure a just and amicable solution is found for our neighbouring country, Zimbabwe.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice Mr Speaker, there are negotiations going on at the moment. As you know, the President of South Africa, His Excellency Mr Zuma, was in South Africa recently. This is done through the hospices of the SADC Troika of which Zambia is a member and holds vice-chairmanship. Therefore, this matter is being looked into. It is in our interest, as a neighbouring country, to ensure that there is peace in Zimbabwe. This is a very important country to us and the SADC Region. It is, therefore, important that there is peace in that country.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

There was a slip of the tongue. The President of South was recently in Zimbabwe and not South Africa. 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kantanshi has been frozen out by the time.

Laughter
______

QUESTIONS

DRILLING OF BOREHOLES IN LUAPULA

422. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many boreholes were earmarked to be drilled in Luapula Province in 2010;

(b)    how much money was expected to be spent on the project at (a); and

(c)    which areas had been identified for drilling of boreholes in Mwense District in 2010?

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Muteteka): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that under the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme, 788 boreholes are planned to be drilled in Luapula Province in 2010.

Mr Speaker, the amount of money to be spent on this programme will only be ascertained after the procurement process has been concluded, but a provision of K3.2 billion has been made.

Sir, the areas that have been identified for borehole drilling in Mwense District have been tabulated and I would like to lay the Paper on the Table in the sense that there are a number of villages in different wards that have been captured. In the meantime, let me mention that there are about twenty-five boreholes in Mambilima Constituency, twenty-three boreholes in Chipili Constituency and thirty-two boreholes in Mwense to be serviced,. 

Mr Speaker, I will lay the paper on the Table for the other details of villages and wards.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muteteka laid the paper on the Table.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify whether the 788 boreholes which will be drilled this year are part of the 1,000 boreholes which His Excellency the President had announced in Parliament.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we have received overwhelming requests for the provision of clean water, especially in rural areas. 

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

REPRIMAND OF MR CHISHIMBA KAMBWILI, MP

Madam Deputy Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering a question for oral answer and the hon. Deputy Minister for Local Government and Housing was about to give a response to a follow-up question by the hon. Member for Chipili. However, hon. Members, before we continue, I have a ruling to make.

I order you, Hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, to stand by your seat.

The House may wish to know that on Friday, 27th November, 2009, the hon. Mr Speaker received a letter of complaint from the then, hon. Minister of Lands, now Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, Hon. Peter M. W. Daka, MP, against the Hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP.  In his letter of complaint, the hon. Minister alleged that while he was winding up debate on his ministry’s budget estimates, Mr Kambwili, MP, continuously made disparaging remarks and also threatened violence against him later that day.  Subsequently, and in response to the letter of complaint, the Office of the hon. Mr Speaker received a counter complaint from Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, against the then Hon Minister of Lands, now, Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, Hon. Peter Daka, MP.  In his complaint, Mr Kambwili, MP, alleged that the hon. Minister called him a scrap metal dealer who stole rails from the Luanshya/Ndola Railway Line.  

In line with Parliamentary practice and procedure and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, the two hon. Members were given an opportunity to respond to each other’s complaints and also appear before the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services.

On its sitting on Thursday, 18th March, 2010, the Committee resolved to adjourn its meeting to the following day, 19th March, 2010 at 14:30 hours to enable them conclude the business before them.  The hon. Member of Parliamentary for Roan was informed of the adjournment and directed to appear before the Committee on Friday, 19th March, 2010, as scheduled.

In the morning of Friday, 19th March 2010, Mr Kambwili wrote a note to the hon. Madam Deputy Speaker seeking rescheduling of the meeting on grounds that he had an appointment with a doctor at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). The hon. Madam Deputy Speaker wrote back to the hon. Member advising him of the urgency of the meeting and that he could not be allowed to be absent. He was, however, advised to see the doctor in the morning so as to ensure that he attended the Committee’s meeting in the afternoon. Mr Kambwili also requested through, his party whip, Mr Yamfwa Mukanga for the rescheduling of the meeting. Hon. Mukanga passed on the request to the Chief Whip who wrote to Hon. Mukanga, declining the Member’s request to have the meeting postponed.

When the Committee constituted itself at 1430 hours on 19th March, 2010, Mr Kambwili was not present. The Committee, therefore, resolved to request Mr Kambwili to explain in writing why he chose to stay away from the meeting despite the Committee’s directive. The letter written to Mr Kambwili read as follows:

“Dear Sir, 

“Unauthorised Absence from the Meeting of the Committee of Privileges, Absences and Support Services. 

“I am directed to refer to the above captioned matter in relation to the meeting of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services of even date. As you will remember, Sir, the Committee had resolved to meet on Friday, 19th March, 2010 at 1430 hours of which you were accordingly informed. You did attempt in the morning of even date to request the postponement of the meeting to enable you attend an appointment at UTH. Both the hon. Madam Deputy Speaker and the Chief Whip declined to give you permission due to the short notice. Instead, you were advised to attend your appointment at UTH in the morning.

“Your absence from the Committee meeting is, therefore, in breach of a directive of the Committee and of Parliamentary privileges.

“Based on the foregoing, the Committee has directed that you explain in writing why you chose to deliberately stay away from the meeting. Your exculpatory letter should reach the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly not later than Monday, 22nd March, 2010”. 

In reply, Mr Kambwili, MP wrote the following letter:

“Dear Madam, 

“Unauthorised Absence from the Meeting of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. 

“I refer to your letter No. NAS/11/17/2 Confidential dated 19th March, 2010 and wish to state that I was unable to attend the said meeting due to the fact that I had an appointment to see a diabetic specialist at UTH at 1430 hours. 

“Further, I did communicate to the Deputy Speaker who asked me to see if I could re-arrange my appointment to morning. Unfortunately, I was told that the clinic only takes place on Fridays twice per month. It is for this reason that I decided to attend the clinic as my health was more critical. I hope this clarifies the issue. 

Yours faithfully, Kambwili Chishimba, MP, Roan Constituency”.

Hon. Members may wish to know that Mr Kambwili was also given an opportunity to appear before the Committee to explain why he chose to stay away from its proceedings on the material day. In his oral submission, Mr Kambwili reiterated the contents of his letter. He also stated that UTH had advised that the diabetic specialist clinic only took place on Fridays twice per month and that it was for that reason that he decided to go to the clinic, as he had a burning sensation in the soles of his feet which he felt needed urgent medical attention. 

When asked why he did not appear before the Committee prior to proceeding to UTH considering that the diabetic specialist clinic only closed after all the patients had been attended to, Mr Kambwili insisted that the appointment to see the doctor had been set for 1430 hours. Asked whether he had attempted to reschedule the meeting at UTH to sometime after 1430 hours, Mr Kambwili answered in the negative. 

After hearing from Mr Kambwili the Committee observed that the hon. Member was aware that he had to appear before the Committee at 1430 hours the day before, but did not indicate to the Committee that on that day he had an appointment. He also readily admitted to the Committee that no effort was made to reschedule his appointment at UTH. 

The Committee further observed that there was no attempt by Mr Kambwili to prioritise the work of the Committee or seek leave of absence according to laid down procedures in order to have the matter concluded in accordance with its resolution of 18th March, 2010. 

Furthermore, the Committee observed that Mr Kambwili exhibited an attitude that was contemptuous to the Committee when he appeared before them on 23rd March, 2010.

In the light of the stated observations, the Committee resolved to have the hon. Member admonished.  Hon. Members may wish to know that it is contempt of Parliamentary privileges for a Member of Parliament to refuse to appear before a Committee of the House.  In this respect, Mr Chishimba Kambwili was found guilty of contempt of the Committee which, inevitably, is contempt of the House.

I now turn to address you, Mr Chishimba Kambwili.  Your breach of privilege stemmed from your failure to follow the correct procedure in requesting to reschedule the Committee’s meeting.  You did not, as an hon. Member, attempt to reschedule your appointment with the doctor to enable you appear before the Committee to inform them of the appointment.

You were clearly informed by both hon. Madam Deputy Speaker and the Chief Whip, through your party whip, that permission was not given for you to miss the meeting.  Your action effectively showed a wanton disregard to the rules and procedures of the House, amounting to a serious contempt of the House.

You should be reminded that this breach shall go on record and, that in future, should you be found guilty of another breach, the Committee will take into account the fact that you may not be a first offender.  This type of conduct is unacceptable and you must stop it forthwith.

Let me take this opportunity to remind the House that hon. Members should take heed of this timely guidance and desist from misconduct amounting to breach of Parliamentary privileges.  This House will not entertain any more unbefitting behaviour from any Member.  Failure to adhere to this timely warning will result in the House imposing appropriate sanctions on the erring Member of this august House.

I now order you, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, to apologise to the House and, thereafter, resume your seat.

I thank you.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I apologise for deciding to go to the hospital when my sugar level was 21.6 against …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Apologise.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I apologise and thank you, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member will appropriately apologise.

Mr Kambwili: I apologise for not having attended the Committee meeting, I thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: I will try again. The hon. Member will appropriately apologise. You have been advised on how to apologise.

Mr Kambwili: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance and I promise that next time, I will make sure that I appear before the Committee. I apologise to the House and to you, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.
________

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

NUMBER OF EARMARKED BOREHOLES IN LUAPULA PROVINCE IN 2010

422. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many boreholes were earmarked to be drilled in Luapula Province in 2010:

(b)    how much money was expected to be spent on the project at (a); and

(c)    which areas had been identified for drilling of boreholes in Mwense District in 2010.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Muteteka): Madam Speaker, yes, the 788 boreholes which will be drilled in the Luapula Province, are part of the President’s pronouncement which he made recently. We are in the first phase of the implementation process. 

Further, I want to inform this august House that the President has also worked tirelessly to respond to the many challenges in the provision of clean water to our people and about 6,000 boreholes have been secured to cater for rural areas in the entire country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister whether the 788 boreholes are part of the boreholes that were recently procured from China during his last visit or are they under another vote or funding?

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I stated here that the President’s pronouncement of 1,000 boreholes to be drilled is what we are implementing. The 788 boreholes are part of them. I also further mentioned that the Government had also gone into arrangements with our co-operating partners to secure 6,000 boreholes which will cater for the remaining areas in the countryside.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how that number of boreholes compares with provinces such as the Copperbelt.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, first of all, as a Government, we concede that we are facing a lot of challenges in the provision of clean water in rural areas. Further, statistics in terms of identifying the areas of need come through our local and district councils and municipalities and this is the data we are using to allocate the resources accordingly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.
______{mospagebreak}

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20 AND 21 (1)

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21 (1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising there from and that on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the House has been sitting for a total of nineteen days as of today. During this period, 215 questions were considered. The House also considered three Private Members’ Motions and one Motion to adopt the second report of the Public Accounts Committee, on the report of the Auditor-General on the outturn and appropriation accounts for the financial year ended 31st December, 2007. Besides that, the House considered two Motions to adopt two select committee reports on presidential appointments. Sadly, the House also recorded its deepest regret on the untimely death of Hon. Misheck N’enechi Bonshe, Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe and Deputy Minster of Home Affairs. We shall surely miss him.

Furthermore, eight ministerial statements were presented to the House and thirty-seven reports from the Government and quasi-Government institutions were submitted and laid on the Table of the House. In addition, this being a legislative meeting, the House considered and passed twenty-one Bills.

Madam Speaker, the House has performed all this business diligently. It is now time for the House to take a break. It is, therefore, necessary that I move this Motion, today, to enable the House adjourn sine die to allow hon. Members attend to other equally important national duties outside this House. Hon. Members must now go back to their constituencies to work with our people and monitor the progress that has been made on the on-going projects, especially in the field of agriculture.

Madam Speaker, some constituencies have been affected by floods, thus making it very difficult for the Government to distribute relief food, drugs and other supplies because the roads are impassable and some bridges have been washed away. In many places, houses have been submerged and washed away by the torrential rains that the country has experienced recently. As a result, many people have been displaced and rendered homeless.

It is, therefore, important that hon. Members go to assess the situation and in consultation with the people, help the Government to work out modalities to mitigate the impact of the floods. The Government will do everything possible to ensure that our people receive support expeditiously. Through you, Madam Speaker, let me thank the House for working hard during this meeting and I wish them a successful break.

Madam Speaker, allow me, at this point, to put on record the fact that during this meeting, the House went through a special in-house training in the form of a seminar for all hon. Members of Parliament held on Monday, 22nd March, 2010 on Conduct and Standing Orders. 

My sincere hope is that all hon. Members will endeavour to put into practice the guidelines given during the seminar which were aimed at improving the quality of performance in conducting business of this august House. In this regard, I wish to appeal to party whips to work together in assisting hon. Members adhere to the guidelines for the effective discharge of parliamentary business.

As I conclude, I wish to thank most profoundly the Speaker for the impartial manner in which he and you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House discharged your duties. Finally, I wish to extend my gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent services they have continued to render to the House. I also wish to thank officers from the office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries for the guidance and assistance they provided throughout our meetings.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I want to note how timely it is that we are rising today because one of the activities in our constituencies, next week, starting from Thursday, is the Mobile National Registration Exercise Phase Iii covering the Lusaka, Copperbelt and Luapula provinces. I appreciate the hon. Minister’s remarks in his statement, earlier this month, to the effect that national registration cards are not just to enable us get voters’ cards, but are, of course, essential to the vote. 

The truth of the matter is that many people over the age of eighteen or will be over the age of eighteen when voters’ registration commences on 1st June, have not got registration cards because the practicality of using the permanent registration card issuance office, for example, in Lusaka, is very slow. It is extremely difficult and inconvenient to people. I have been involved in even taking people there and trying to expedite the process. When I went to complain about the slowness of the process to the Director of National Registration, I was advised not to bother, but wait for the mobile registration issuance which would be much more convenient and user friendly. 

So we, hon. Members of Parliament from the Lusaka, Copperbelt and Luapula provinces, I think, have a special duty, during the recess, to help the Department of National Registration do its job properly. We should be activists for national registration and even involve television stations in the process. Whenever there are bottlenecks, we should draw attention to them and help our hon. Minister of Home Affairs do his job. After all, this country was liberated on the slogan of “One man, one vote” and not “Some men, some votes”, which was the colonial system that we had before. I think we should do everything in our power to ensure that when we go to the polls, next year, it is on the basis of “One adult, person one vote” as far as is humanly possible and not some gerrymandered version of “One man, one vote”.

Perhaps, I could just very briefly say that most of us here are councillors, apart from those who are nominated, and, therefore, I believe we should be working with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to try and deliver services. I think we should be realistic in the case of Lusaka, which I can speak for. I know that the planned drainage works in the master plan for Lusaka City are roughly estimated to cost K300 billion or US$ 60 million to US$70 million. This kind of money is far in excess of the total budget of the council, let alone the capital development portion of that budget. It can only be accessed from the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, which is the World Bank’s infrastructure arm. We should be busy working to ensure that significant engineering works are carried out before we have a repetition of our now traditional Kuomboka-like flooding of Lusaka next year. Now is the time that we should be looking ahead and stop using the floods in Lusaka as a cheap political gimmick.

Madam, I thank you.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I would like to support the Motion of adjournment and in doing so, I would like to appeal to all the leaders in this House and out there, especially when we go back to our respective constituencies, to carry the message of peace to the electorate and not that of instability.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: To contain the problems that we have been facing as a country, such as floods which have been mentioned by His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, we can only do that in an environment where we have peace and stability. There are a number of people, maybe, a small percentage, who are so desperate for power that they would like to do anything possible to get to State House. My message and simple advice to them is that we have only fifteen months to go before the general elections. Those who would like to test their popularity must wait for fifteens months only and the Zambian people are going to say that the time has come for them to pick a new leader democratically.

Madam Speaker, we have achieved a lot as a nation for many years and would not like to destroy the infrastructure that we have built over a long period. It only takes one careless person to incite a lot of people and destroy the whole nation. When we talk about destruction of the nation, we are talking about destruction of human beings as well as infrastructure. I have always asked this simple question. Where are we going to find the money to rebuild our beautiful country if we destroy it? 

Madam Speaker, my mother is now aging and I cannot find a place to take her if, for example, the champions of instability created problems for our country. Fifteen months is not a long time to wait. We want them to come and test their popularity. We want them to go to the people and ask for the people’s mandate. That is what we are looking for. You may wish to know that we have had priests before in this House as hon. Members of Parliament. The door is open for them to join politics. We do not want people to be making shortcuts. You may also wish to know that one of the representatives of a particular organisation was saying that they want to create instability in the country because of things like the Constitution-making process, which they are not comfortable about.

First of all, the Government of the day invited everybody to participate in the constitution-making process. Some people saw this as an opportunity to make a constitution which will help us govern ourselves while others refused to participate. These are the people who are saying that the constitution-making process is defective. Where were they when the invitation was extended to them? Additionally, the Government of the day has already indicated that the roadmap is that by 31st August, 2010, we will see this document that we are looking for. Is there a question of looking for the product that you have been waiting for? Why should you demonstrate on an issue that is simple and straightforward?

Secondly, they are citing the issues of corruption instead of commending the Government because it is ahead of all these people who are making noise. A number of Bills have been presented to this House to enhance the fight against corruption. In addition, the Anti-Corruption Commission adopted the policy on this issue. Therefore, why refuse to participate in all these processes which have been steered by the Government of the day?

The same group is talking about the issue of bad governance without taking into consideration that good governance is a broader term. They do not indicate areas of bad governance on the part of the Government of the day. There could be political, economic, and social governance, but you are just saying bad governance by the Government of the day. These are lame excuses that should not be allowed. We cannot allow a small group of people that is thirsty for power to destroy what we have acquired at the individual, community and national level.

They should be the first people to be given the red card because we do not want instability in our country. For us to prosper economically, politically and socially, we need peace and stability. We are not going backwards to shedding blood like our founding fathers did for the independence of this country. That time is now behind us. We are now looking for the economic development of our country and improve their living standards. This can only be done when we create an environment of peace and stability in our country. In fact, that should be our motto wherever we are as credible politicians and not trouble makers. I have said there are only fifteen months to go before Zambians will be in a position to show us the exit. Therefore, those who would like to enter this House and State House must do so democratically …

Hon. Opposition Members: We are going to do so!

Mr Kasongo: …. and not making shortcuts. If you are so popular, come to Bangweulu Constituency and campaign.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Go to Lukulu and campaign. That is the challenge that I would like to give to our colleagues who would like to create instability in our country.

 Please, allow our defence and security personnel to conduct their businesses without difficulty. Do not make the situation of our defence and security personnel difficult. They have their own families to look after. Therefore, let them implement their own programmes without interference. Do not disturb them because they are hardworking people and we are proud of them. You are making the work of our security officers extremely difficult when you begin making shortcuts. So let them sleep the way you sleep.

Finally, Your Honour, we have appreciated your performance and, through you, the entire Cabinet and the Head of State.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: You have been good listeners even when we implored you to find an alternative to the image problems that have been confronting Zambians, for example. 

Regarding the issue of credible suppliers, again, the Head of State, including yourself, were called a lot of names, but you took a bold decision to address this issue. This is because some people breathe democracy, dream corruption and talk about corruption in the morning, afternoon and at night. To them all, the measures that the Government intends to take are associated with corruption. A good example is on the issues surrounding the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development now. However, if you have evidence regarding the suppliers and that the Government is awarding them contracts in a non-transparent manner, you should have reported these cases to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). The fact that none of you reported the matter to ACC means that there was no substance on those allegations. Sometimes these allegations emanate from some of these funny newspapers. Therefore, we cannot govern the country through newspaper articles. It does not happen anywhere.

Madam Speaker, the country is governed through dialogue and by being a good listener. This Government with …

Mr Sing’ombe: Bakaya naimwe! (They will go with you).

Mr Kasongo: … RB has done extremely well as far as I am concerned.

Mr Sing’ombe: They will go with you.

Mr Kasongo: We have so many projects to talk about and many achievements have been recorded. We can only achieve more if we continue to maintain peace and stability in our country. Your Honour, you should also redesign and rebuild the systems that are responsible for implementing the Government’s policy. 

Madam Deputy Speaker: Through the Chair!

Mr Kasongo: Most of them are weak and, sometimes, it takes one year for a teacher’s house or a simple clinic to be constructed. This means that some of the institutions are so weak that they must be redesigned. 

In a nutshell, I would like to say, please, as leaders of this country who were popularly elected by the people, let us preach the message of peace and stability in our nation for that is the only way we can prosper as a nation and not by causing instability.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I support the Motion on the Floor. In doing so, I would like to reflect on one of the twenty-one Bills that were considered by Parliament and this is the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) Bill No. 2010. When this Bill will be signed into law, it will cater for all the professionals in the engineering field. Also, these professionals will be required to be registered, monitored and regulated in order to assist in achieving the Vision 2030 through systematic planning, building, monitoring and maintaining infrastructure for economic growth and wealth creation.

Madam Speaker, related to this will be the poor workmanship which will be minimised. My only concern is that during the consideration of that Bill, there was no publicity in our local newspapers …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

One of our rules is that we do not reflect on that which we have done. You had the opportunity then to discuss this and bring out all the concerns. For now, that matter is gone, you may talk about something else.

Mr Mooya: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance. 

I would like to thank all the hon. Members, hon. Ministers and the current and former Ministers of Communications and Transport for supporting the Bill. Above all, special thanks go to His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice because there was a hiccup in the last lap. I remember discussing this hiccup with him at the NCC and from there things started moving. What is remaining now is to request His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to continue dialoguing with the engineers so that this Bill can be enacted.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to debate this Motion.

Madam Speaker, I want to agree with His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice that we adjourn sine die so that we can go and supervise our constituencies. Some of us are in constant touch with our constituents and we know what is happening on a daily basis. However, one of the problems that I would like the Government to address is what I saw on the Zambia National Broadcasting Services (ZNBC) television in Keembe Constituency in the Central Province yesterday. It is very sad. It was very simple information to the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, in particular, that we need to help our brothers and sisters whose crops are submerged in water. I am told about 70 per cent of the crops in the Central Province are in this state. 

Madam Speaker, I would like to request Cabinet to start sensitising people in the areas where we have some maize not to sell their maize to unscrupulous businessmen. So many times, our farmers have been swindled because the Government delays in giving us the floor price. If we are to assist our friends whose crops have been submerged in water, then it means the Government should quickly tell us how much our maize will be sold at. That way, most of our farmers will not sell their maize to people who may not come in to assist in procuring food for our people who are suffering.

Secondly, in getting all this maize from areas such as my constituency where we have a bit of maize, we need to quickly move in and assure people that more satellite depots will be opened. The problem is even when we see that our colleagues in other areas have no food, we do not open up satellite depots for our farmers to take their maize there. As a result, most of our farmers are vulnerable and sell their maize anyhow. At the moment, with the little maize that is in my constituency, some people have already started selling it to scrupulous people.

Hon. Members: Unscrupulous people.

Mr Sing’ombe: Unscrupulous people. Thank you. 

Lastly, I wish to ask the Office of the Vice-President not to be selective in terms of assisting people without any degree of jealousy. I have not liked the system where when the people of Mazyopa complain about resettlement, the Government quickly moves in to look for land to resettle them. When compounds in Lusaka are submerged in water, the people from those compounds are quickly given areas to go and settle in. At the moment, we are told that the people who moved to Chief Kaingu’s area have been given an ultimatum to vacate the game park by July, this year, but the Government has not given them an alternative place to settle. Some of the people from Sichifulo have not yet been settled. They are still squatting in places that are not very good. I, therefore, ask the Office of the Vice-President to review this issue so that the affected people can settle down and move on.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, let me begin by saluting you and your staff for making it possible for us to conduct business in a manner that is conducive in this House. I support this Motion because it is non-controversial.

Madam Speaker, let me start my contribution by saying that the people of the Republic of Zambia have been going through a lot of problems. One of the problems that I would like to point out is the floods that have affected the majority of the people in the country. Therefore, I urge the Government to get in touch with all the provincial leadership to alleviate the problems that are affecting our people. People, in places such as Chilubi where I come from and Luwingu in particular, are facing serious problems. Chilubi Constituency has the Luena Bridge which connects the people of Luwingu and Chilubi. This bridge was washed away about three weeks ago, but it is not receiving any attention. It is imperative upon the Government of the Republic of Zambia to work extremely hard and make sure that ...

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. I have been listening attentively to the debates of our colleagues on your left. The hon. Member on the Floor has talked about the Luena Bridge. Is he in order to misinform the nation that this bridge is not receiving any attention when I just came from there? You have guided this House before on such issues. In fact, I have just been telling him five minutes ago about what has been done. 

I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member debating may take that point of order into consideration, knowing that the rules of the House are that we should not give any misleading statements on issues on which information has been given to you by the Executive. You should be able to use it appropriately. 

You may continue with the facts that you have.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. 

When the point of order was raised, I was about to emphasise that it is imperative upon the Government of the day to make sure that when people cry out, they are attended to because we know that the Government has the capacity to deliver goods and services. Currently, the people of Chilubi cannot access Luwingu and Kasama. They have been completely cut off. My earnest appeal to the Government is to seriously look into this problem.

Madam Speaker, secondly, I would like to talk about the issue of supervising projects in the provinces. It has been discovered that most of the projects, especially in the Northern Province, have stalled. Some projects under the Ministry of Health were supposed to be completed last year but, to date, these projects have not been completed. I do not know whether this is because of erratic funding. If that were the case, it would be important for the Ministry of Health to ensure that the Provincial Permanent Secretary and his team, in turn, ensure that these projects are completed. Some of us are in a hurry to see that the Government helps us by constructing district hospitals. This is because our people have not had proper health facilities for a long time. Please, we urge our colleagues from the Executive to come to our aid.

With these few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: I still have two hon. Members who would like to debate, but remember that this is not a cross-country debate. It is a Motion. Therefore, try to speak to the Motion because it is not time for you to open up some other issues.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion. Indeed, I will try by all means to be brief because I only have one or two issues to comment on as I support the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, as His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has already said, as we go to our constituencies, we are going to be faced with a number of challenges, including bad roads, diseases and poor school infrastructure.

Madam, as hon. Members of Parliament, we have tried to remind our colleagues on your right to ensure that they provide good services to the people in our constituencies. However, the answers that we get are that the resource envelope is not big enough to cater for all the problems that we have in our constituencies. I agree that the kind of budget that we have in this country is too small. In fact, in developed countries, such a budget can only cater for a high school or university. I know we have talked about windfall tax several times and even yesterday we talked about it. I am not for that because I know that the Government has already decided not to bring it back.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Members, you have been guided that you cannot debate issues that have already been dealt with in the House. This is time to wind up your Parliament and that is the Motion on the Floor. 

You may continue.

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam, I was actually coming to that. 

The Government needs money to meet the problems that we are facing in our constituencies, as hon. Members of Parliament. This is because, as we adjourn sine die today, we will be faced with a lot of questions from our people.

For example, in my constituency, I have been singing about the bridge at Fonkofonko. To date, this bridge has not been worked on. I have been singing about the road from Chinsali Boma to Mulyansolo Health Centre which is in a pathetic condition. It is impassable at the moment. This is why I was trying to urge the Government to find means of repairing it.

The hon. Minister of Works and Supply urged us, as councillors, to find ways to raise funds so that we can attend to some of these problems. I am also urging the Government to find ways to raise funds and increase the size of the resource envelope so that we attend to some of these problems.

Madam Speaker, as I go to my constituency, it will be very difficult for me to go round and see how farmers have grown maize because the roads are impassable. I do not know where I will start from. I will just go to the Boma, because it will be very difficult for me to go into the rural areas and visit the farmers to see what is happening. Therefore, I am encouraging the Government to look for money and attend to these problems. 

Madam Speaker, the other issue is that of the Great North Road, T2. The stretch from Serenje to Isoka is badly damaged. I had an opportunity to see the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his office because I believe in engaging the Government. I told him that we appreciated the K4.8 billion allocated to this road for pothole patching, but it was not enough because pothole patching was temporary. It will not last long because, in three months time, the road will be worn out again. 

Madam, we need full rehabilitation of this road. This road does not cater for the people of Chinsali and Northern Province alone. It is a very important international road. The day before yesterday, I was watching a documentary where I learnt that the Government had allocated over K200 billion to the roads in Luangwa District. We have also seen in the Yellow Book that K200 billion has been allocated to Mfuwe. Therefore, why can we not allocate money to this important road so that it can be worked on? 

This morning, the hon. Minister said that the road needs colossal sums of money and the Government was not in a position to release that kind of money. This is not true. I do not agree with that statement. The money is there and it can be done. I just do not understand why other roads are given priority. This is my concern.

Mr Mwaanga: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwaanga: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to begin debating as if we are debating cross-country issues instead of speaking to the Motion as you have guided? I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: My ruling is a reminder to the hon. Member debating that we have a specific Motion on the Floor. This is not time to bring out issues that you may have dealt with or had the opportunity to deal with. The Motion is to suspend Standing Orders 20 and 21 (1) and Standing Order 101 so that we conclude this Session of the House and adjourn sine die. You will agree with me that this is what we are doing on this Motion. 

You may continue, but speak to the Motion.

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. 

These are the questions that my people in Chinsali Constituency will be asking me when I go there today.

The last time the Head of State visited Chinsali was in the 1980s. I am, therefore, requesting the current Head of State to visit Chinsali. The reason I want him to come to Chinsali is for him to use the road so that he sees the state of the road. I will be the first one to receive him at Nambulumo Turnoff. 

Hon. Member: You will be suspended!

Mr C. Mulenga: I will not be suspended. It will be for the good of my people in Chinsali. I am requesting the Head of State to come to Chinsali so that he can experience what we are talking about. Therefore, as we adjourn, I will be in my constituency and will be waiting to receive the President in Chinsali. 

With these few words, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members for supporting the Motion.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.
_________{mospagebreak}

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

THE IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION BILL, 2010

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)    

Mr Mangani: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 9, in lines 7 to 8 by the deletion of the definition of “Director of Immigration” and the substitution therefor of the following:

“Director-General of Immigration” means the person appointed as Director-General of Immigration under section four.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 4 – (Appointment of Director of Immigration and other Staff)                                                                                         

Mr Mangani: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 4,

(a)    on page 12, in lines 21, 25 and 28 by the deletion of the words “Director of Immigration” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director-General of Immigration”; and

(b)    on page 13, in lines 2, 9, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18 and 21 by the deletion of the words “Director of Immigration” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director-General of Immigration”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 – (Functions of Department)

Mr Mangani: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on pages 13 and 49 by the deletion of the words “Director of Immigration” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director-General of Immigration”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSES 6 – (Powers of Department)

Mr Mangani: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 6, on page 16, in lines 37 and 38 by the deletion of the words “the Director of Immigration” and the substitution therefor of the words “a court”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 6, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 7, 8, 9, 10, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If you want to consult, get out. You are not behaving properly. You are disturbing me. If you want to consult, go out or else you stay here, keep quiet or consult quietly.

…11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 and 31 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

CLAUSE 32 ─ (Offences and Penalties)

Mr Mangani: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 32, on page 34, in the marginal note, by the deletion of the marginal note and the substitution therefor of the following marginal note:

    “Border pass and transit visa”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 32, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 389, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61 and 62 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First, Second and Third Schedules, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE FORFEITURE OF PROCEEDS OF CRIME BILL, 2010

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2,
        
(a)    on page 8, after line 2, by the insertion of the following new definition:

    cap. 91    “casual gift” has the meaning assigned to it in the Anti-corruption Commission Act;

(b)    on page 9, in lines 9 to 10, by the deletion of the definition of “gift” and;

(c)    on page 11, in line 6, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 3 – (Definition of Certain Terms)

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3, 

(a)    on page 13, in line 2, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”,

(b)    on page 14,

(i)    in line 7, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”;

(ii)    in line 9, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word ‘gift’;

(iii)    in line 25, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift” wherever it appears;

(iv)    in line 31, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”;

(v)    in line 34, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”; and

(c )    on page 15,

(i)    in line 8, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word “gift”;

(ii)    in line 15, by the insertion of the word “casual” before the word ‘gift’.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 3, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 9 – (Application for Forfeiture Order where Person has Absconded)

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9, on page 18, in line 21, by the deletion of the word “and” and the substitution therefor of the word “or”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39,  40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 and 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 57 – (Production and Inspection of Order)

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 57, on page 51, in line 1, by the deletion of the words “Subject to Subsection (6), and”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 57, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83 and 84 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
___________ 

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Immigration and Deportation Bill, 2010

The Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Bill, 2010

Report Stages, now.

_____________ 

REPORT STAGE

The Patent and Companies Registration Agency Bill, 2010

The Plea Negotiations and Agreements Bill, 2010

The Dairy Industry Development Bill, 2010

Report adopted.

Third Readings now.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Migration and Deportation Bill, 2010

The Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Bill, 2010

The Patents and Companies Registration Agency Bill, 2010

The Plea Negotiations and Agreements Bill, 2010

The Dairy Industry Development Bill, 2010

The Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Patents (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Trademarks (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The National Constitutional Conference (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Registration of Business Names (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Registered Designs (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Companies (Certificates Validation) (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Dairy Produce Board (Establishment) (Repeal) Bill, 2010

The Dairy Produce Marketing and Levy (Repeal) Bill, 2010

The Supplementary Appropriation (2008) Bill, 2010

______________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

________________

The House adjourned accordingly at 1250 hours on Friday, 26th March, 2010, sine die.

APPENDIX TO QUESTION 422

Mambilima Constituency

NO.    Name                    Ward

1.    Chisulo                    Katuta
2.    Chibondo Basic School            Mpasa;
3.    Katebula Village                Musonda
4.    Sichama Community School        Kalanga
5.    Losamukunkuto Village            Musonda
6.    Chisanfu Village                Munua
7.    Mutima Village                Munua
8.    Muchinga Village            Musonda
9.    Chata    Village                Lundashi
10.    Kafwimbi Village            Kalanga
11.    Mwashi “A” Village            Kalanga
12.    Munkumpa Village            Nsonfi
13.    Kambo Village                Kalanga
14.    Nongo Village                Munua
15.    Luangwa Village                Munua
16.    Mweshi Village                Chibembe
17.    Fyansoni Village                Mpasa
18.    Sungusungu Village            Mpasa
19.    Kaoma Village                Mpasa
20.    Chalwe Rural Health Center         Lundashi
21.    Mulaki Village                Musonda
22.    Sepe Community School            Musonda
23.    Kapesa South Village             Mpasa
24.    Kalangwa Village             Nsofi
25.    Chimbala North Village            Kalanga

Chipili Constituency

1.    Chibwe Village                 Chibalashi
2.    Kamani Village                Nkanga
3.    Nshindano Village            Nsenga
4.    Chipepo Village                Nsenga
5.    Kafwimbi Village            Nalupembe
6.    Chikubi Village                Nalupembe
7.    Mutipula Basic School            Nkonga
8.    Katuta Turnoff                Nalupembe
9.    Pibelibe Village                Nsenga
10.    Chitobo Village                Nsenga
11.    Mulunda Basic school            Mweshi
12.    Chinshinseli Village            Mweshi
13.    Bundachungu Basic School        Chibalashi
14.    Kapalaula                Chibalashi
15.    Chimfuntwe Village            Mweshi
16.    Chilolo Village                Mweshi
17.    Kane Village                Nsenga
18.    Moba Village                Nsenga
19.    Tambalala Village            Mumbwe
20.    Kalikokoto Village            Nalupembe
21.    Leo Village                Nalupembe
22.    Masongo Village                Nkonge
23.    Lekeshi Village                Chibalashi

Mwense Constituency 

1.    Chisasu Village                Kaombe
2.    Kabengele Village             Kaombe
3.    Chilolo Village                Nkanga
4.    Wachani Basic School            Katiti
5.    Polokankomba Village            Katiti
6.    Lubunda Basic School             Katiti
7.    Chawashi Village                Nkanga
8.    Kawama Joe Village            Nkanga
9.    Lumufwe Village                Kaombe
10.    Shimalia Village                Kasengu
11.    Mutonta Village                Katiti
12.    Kawama Village                Kasengu
13.    Kampamba Basic Village            Luche
14.    Mumplokoso Village            Luche
15.    Chibele North Village             Kalanga
16.    Kateule Village                Kasengu
17.    Kangomba community School        Kaomba
18.    Nyengele Village                Katuti
19.    Nyengele village                Katuti
20.    Musangati Village            Chachacha
21.    Chembe Community School        Chachacha
22.    Chilengwe Village            Chachacha
23.    Kalasa Village                Kaombe
24.    Mushisha/Mutamina Village        Nkanga
25.    Chansa “B” Village            Kasengu
26.    Kateta Village                Luche
27.    Chansa North Village            Kasenga
28.    Shichinangu Village            Kasenga
29.    Mushipi Section                 Katiti
30.    Nakabeka Village                Katiti
31.    Chikonkolo Village            Kabola
32.    Malama Village                Luche