Debates- Wednesday 14th July, 2010

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 14th July, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

SOLWEZI /CHINGOLA ROAD

523. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Works and Supply what measures the Government had taken to save the Solwezi-Chingola Road from further deterioration.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is concerned about the 170-kilometre Chingola-Solwezi Road. It has been and still is the desire of the ministry to prevent further deterioration of the road’s condition. In this respect, the RDA carried out holding maintenance of the road in 2004/2005 and, again, in 2007/2008 respectively. The road needs to be fully rehabilitated.

In its pursuit to improve the capacity of the condition of the road, the RDA engaged a private consulting local firm to carryout a techno-economic study and detailed engineering design for the upgrading of the capacity of the road by widening and carrying out a full rehabilitation of the project road.

However, upgrading of the road has not been implemented due to lack of funds. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has identified the project as a candidate to be placed under the private-public partnership (PPP). The tender for the upgrading of the road under the PPP has since been advertised this year, 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if any initiatives have been made to engage the mining companies in the North-Western Province so that they can intervene before the PPP comes in.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga East is aware that, right now, the mines are busy patching up the road in question. Therefore, this means that they are already engaged.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, in reference to the PPP arrangement regarding this project, it was stated, sometime back, that these works would be done in April, 2011. Is the ministry concerned about the bridges on that road, which may collapse during the rainy season and, if so, what is it doing about this?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the works that are being undertaken by the mines include intervention wherever it is necessary. If at any point, it is felt that the RDA must get involved in trying to rehabilitate the bridges, I think, that will be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, since the Government has suggested that money will be allocated to this project in next year’s Budget, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how long it will take the contractor, who will be engaged, to complete the works. Is it going to take one or two years?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am left wondering where that statement has come from.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: We, as a Government, did not say that we would allocate money for this project in next year’s Budget. We said that the PPP would do that. This means that the investor is the one who is supposed to put in the money, but we will have to agree on how that investor recovers it. This may either be through the use of toll gates or other means.

Mr Speaker, I do not know where the hon. Member got the issue of budgeting for the road in next year’s Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister keeps saying that the investor will recover its money through toll gates when there is no law to support that. How are the toll gates going to be implemented without the support of the law?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we have a law-maker who does not read because the law to support toll gates exists.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, most of the damage on this road has been caused by traffic of the heavy trucks from Lumwana Mine. I wish to find from the hon. Minister whether Lumwana Mine is going to contribute to the repair of these roads. Further, what is the status of the issue of the rail line so that we stop the damage being caused by the use of heavy trucks on these roads?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the ideal situation, like the hon. Member has said, is for the Government to build a rail line because no matter the level of intervention, it will not save the situation as the mines are doing very well. It is a blessing, in one way, that there is a lot of production from these mines, but it is the tonnage of their produce that is damaging the roads. However, the Government cannot stop the mines from producing, but it can only pursue the option of constructing a rail line very seriously because that is the only solution that it has left.

I am sure that the hon. Member is aware that when the mining company was raising funds for its development, one of the conditions attached was that it was not expected to participate in infrastructure development like that of roads. The mine was to invest that money in its core business so that it could raise sufficient funds to repay its loan. Therefore, road works are not part of the agenda of the mine and if, it has to get involved, I do not know how that will be done. However, I think that we, as a Government, acknowledge the fact that the mine is doing very well and must be supported by the building of a rail line.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a routine maintenance programme on this road and, indeed, the many other roads in the country so as to prevent further deterioration and reduce the final maintenance cost when rehabilitation is done.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Member has got another understanding of the phrase ‘routine maintenance’ because the statement that was issued referred to routine maintenance from 2004 to 2007.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kanyama can ask his supplementary question, now.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): My question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Kambwili: Do not be sarcastic, hon. Minister of Works and Supply.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, in a recent statement, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated that roads between Solwezi and Chingola, Chingola and Kitwe, Ndola and Livingstone and Kafue and Chirundu were going to be turned into dual carriage ways through the PPP method, which the hon. Deputy Minister referred to. Can the hon. Minister indicate to the House the likelihood that this is going to start off shortly? Do we have investors who are ready and willing to work on these projects?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, there was an important need to appoint a transaction advisor, who is supposed to participate in the fundraising for these projects, if the works were to begin. Therefore, in response to an advertisement for this position, a number of people applied. As such, the process has started.

Mr Speaker, models of how the roads are to be rebuilt and tolled have been presented, but there is the need to know where to start from. In case we start from Chirundu, which route is to be taken? Are we supposed to come through Kafue or should another road from Chirundu coming through Lusaka to Chisamba be constructed?

Therefore, Mr Speaker, all these programmes are being considered and this is why an advertisement for a transaction advisor was placed in the press. I think evaluations have begun and there is hope that as soon as the transaction advisor has been engaged, we will then begin to see how the funding for those who are going to participate will be packaged.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, there is what is known as corporate responsibility. With such obvious evidence of road damage caused by abnormal loads, is this Government planning to urge these corporate entities called the mines to invest in corporate responsibility in form of repair of roads? Is it not that, actually, this is a donor-funded sector and, as such, the donor has put in place certain conditionalities that will not permit such corporate responsibility to be applied by sectors funded by them and if that be the case, what is this Government doing to renegotiate those conditions?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, one of the reasons the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) got into difficulties was because they took on so many social corporate responsibilities. At the time, the ZCCM underwent privatisation, I do not know where Hon. Kambwili was, …

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: …the people who were taking over requested that the entity be unbundled so that social obligations could be taken over separately. It is common sense for anybody who understands business that one cannot be lumbered with a problem which is not their creation.

Mr Speaker, we would like to encourage corporate entities to be productive in their area of specialisation. Indeed, the question of them paying tax is an obligation. If there are other taxes that they need to pay, that will be done. However, I do not think it would be fair for us, as a Government, to just wake up and tell them to work on our roads and stadia after agreeing that they would only concentrate on copper mining. That kind of behaviour is not good. As a Government, we are very responsible. We agreed that we would allow them to come and grow the economy through copper mining. So, if the hon. Member has got any way she would want to persuade those mines in Mufulira to work on the roads on her behalf, we will be very grateful.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

POLICE OFFICERS’ ACCOMMODATION

524. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would construct houses for police officers countrywide and, particularly, those in Mwinilunga District.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that, through the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), which begins in 2011, the Government has factored in it the component of infrastructure development aimed at constructing houses for police officers countrywide, including Mwinilunga District.

Sir, it is the intention of the Government to build at least fifty housing units in Mwinilunga District because, currently, there are only five houses and only five police officers are accommodated out of a total establishment of fifty-five police officers in the district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, there is no plan for routine maintenance of the existing houses for police officers countrywide. This has forced the police officers to use their meagre resources to either paint or repair these damaged houses. When will the Government come up with plans to ensure that even the houses that will be built are maintained?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Member has rightly said that there is a need to make provision for the maintenance of these houses, the Government will factor that in the Sixth National Development Plan. As I said earlier, I hope that next time the budget is brought to this House, it will be supported by all hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mubika: Quality!

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, as there is a plan to construct more houses for police officers, has the ministry taken into account the growing population of police officers to match the accommodation?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, yes, the ministry will take that particular aspect into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his response, made reference to the Sixth National Development Plan which he said would take effect in 2011. In arriving at the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), hon. Members of Parliament were consulted through their councils. I wonder when the hon. Members of Parliament will be consulted in drawing up the SNDP.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the ministry’s understanding is that hon. Members participate in the discussions that are constituted in the contributions submitted by councils. Therefore, it is hoped that hon. Members will be asked to make contributions when the councils meet.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government, using its national resources, got to come in to maintain houses of police officers when things like window panes and other minor things, which can be repaired by the occupiers themselves, get damaged? Why can this money not be used for something like constructing more houses for police officers?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, if individuals are in a position to assist by repairing minor works such as broken windows and so on, we will appreciate it. However, the responsibility of heavy maintenance still lies with the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the entire Lukulu District has no single house for the policemen there and that, even more seriously, the police station is not electrified?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I am not aware. Now that you have brought that issue to our attention, we would like to have more details so that we can look into it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, since this question concerns the construction of houses for police officers countrywide, may the hon. Minister tell us the number of houses which are needed to accommodate those officers who are not accommodated.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, we would like to ensure that we build as many houses as we can. However, at the moment, I am not in a position to indicate the exact number.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, Kazungula has been a district for about twelve years now, but there is neither a police station nor a house for officers. What is the ministry doing to ensure that this infrastructure is put in place?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, now that we know that Kazungula District has no police post, we will factor that into the SNDP, which begins next year. I would like to appeal to hon. Members to assist the ministry by indicating which areas are in need of such posts and, depending on the resource basket, we will assist where we can.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, instead of relying on hon. Members of Parliament, who are not experts in this field, has the Government considered engaging a consultant to undertake a situation analysis on this matter to ascertain the level of need and the number of posts required. This is taking into account all the relevant information so that they can have a plan to include in the SNDP as well as plan, on a short-term basis, and be able to construct houses in a strategic way, without any inconvenience, by putting the figures in the budget at the appropriate time.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, we are doing precisely what the hon. Member has said. We have factored the building of police posts and police houses into the SNDP and, once the funds are available, we should be able to undertake this exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, officers under the Police and Prisons Service Commission and the Immigration Department are also in dire need of accommodation. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether these officers will also be allowed to occupy some of the houses to be constructed.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, as good as that question is, it is new.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the ministry will procure brick-moulding machines to send to all the districts, as was stated by the former Minister, to accelerate this housing project.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, we have not yet determined when we will do this, but it is an issue we can look into. I am not making an assurance. I am only saying that this is something we can look at.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

WOMEN EMPOWERMENT FUNDS

525. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) what mechanism had been prepared to facilitate the disbursement of funds for women empowerment as budgeted for in 2010;

(b) what had caused the delay in the disbursement of the funds; and

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Mufalali): Mr Speaker, the ministry, through the Department of Community Development, has designed application forms, which are used by applicants to access funds under the Women Development Programme, as part of a mechanism for disbursing funds. These application forms are accessible in all the seventy-two districts of the country and all the provincial community development offices. In Lusaka, the forms are also available at the ministry headquarters under the Department of Community Development.

Mr Speaker, all applicants are expected to do the following:

(i) form groups or clubs and get registered with the Registrar of Societies and get a certificate;

(ii) have a bank account;

(iii) provide a list of the members of the executive committees; and

(iv) define the project they will be engaged in and how they will utilise the funds.

Mr Speaker, there have been no delays in disbursing these funds as the disbursement started in January, 2010. Allow me to state that the exercise is going on well. In addition, we have also conducted awareness programmes in the Southern, Eastern, Central, North-Western, Western and Lusaka provinces. This exercise is ongoing and will cover all the remaining provinces before the end of the year. It is, however, worth mentioning that this programme is also demand driven.

Mr Speaker, as the House is fully aware, women are the most disadvantaged in our society and some have no means of survival. Therefore, my ministry is trying to assist them, through empowerment, by giving them grants. The grants will enable them engage in small income-generating activities to support their livelihood. We believe that, once these women are empowered, the high levels of poverty surrounding them will decrease drastically.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the K5 billion meant for women empowerment is supposed to benefit women in all constituencies. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has divided these funds among the constituencies so that they all benefit.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, when we brought the programme to Parliament, there was nowhere it was indicated that, upon approval, we would apportion the money to constituencies. The resources that have been allocated to us are supposed to be given to women’s clubs for their assistance. We have already stated, in our response, that the disbursement of the money is demand driven and we are aware that each case has got its own merit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, rural women have a problem of accessing certificates from the Registrar of Societies because of high fees. What is the ministry doing to ensure that the fees are reduced so that more women register their clubs?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I can only express my condolences to the hon. Member because I do not have anything to do with the registration fees.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: However, the only help I can render is to cite what I have done in my constituency as an example. Using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I have already registered 300 clubs to help the women in my constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why, lately, we have been seeing many women gathered, picked up from point A to B and taken to big stadia, Woodlands Stadium, in particular, and being given money. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where that money is coming from.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, Kanongeki would have said, “Are you jealous?”

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: However, since I am not Kanongeki, I will answer the hon. Member. Those women taken to the stadia are Zambian women.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: The programme is for Zambian women. Let me add that, tomorrow, I will be addressing women marketeers in Kitwe. On Friday, I will be addressing women marketeers in Ndola …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Kaingu: … at Chifubu Stadium in particular.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, these are Zambian women who require to be empowered. Therefore, my job, as a good servant and one whom you have entrusted these resources with, is to empower these women.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, this is not the first time that Zambian women are getting these kinds of funds. I am glad that women know that they can get this money and use it as they wish. However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when he will extend that programme to other areas as he returns from Chifubu and Kitwe. Furthermore, when will he inform us about the extension so that we can tell our women to be on the look-out to enable them apply for this money because it belongs to them.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it has been clearly stated that the programme is demand driven. As soon as the ministry is engaged, it will respond. The only problem is that some hon. Members are not willing to participate in national programmes such as the National Constitutional Conference (NCC).

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, we have been told that one of the conditions for acquiring these funds is to have a club registered. However, it has been observed that it is taking too long and, sometimes, beyond a year before the Registrar of Societies issues the certificates.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Chisala: May I know how best the hon. Minister intends to help the people who are being disadvantaged in that way so that, with the view to assist our people, the process can be sped up.

Mr Kaingu: Speaker, I do not know when the hon. Member tried to register the clubs in his constituency. I would like to clearly state that the registration process only takes a day and if there is a delay, three days. I would, therefore, like to thank Hon. Lungu for the good work.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ho. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, there was a similar scheme before, but the money that was received by clubs, especially in my constituency, was used as payment to the cadres who had done a lot of work for the party.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Nsanda: What has the Government done to sensitise the would-be receivers that this is not party payment for their work in the next elections?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that statement because it was not a question.

Therefore, using his statement, I would like to tell this House and the nation that, as a ministry, we want to engage women to clean drainages and, thereafter, pay them. I will not care whether they belong to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or United Party for National Development (UPND), but how I wish they were all MMD.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, in relation to the competing needs, the K5 billion is a drop in the ocean. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he could put a ceiling on how much each applicant is entitled to.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, actually, we are engaging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for more resources so that we can give money to our women.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed the House that the programme is demand driven and that his ministry has offices in all the districts. What is this caring Government, with offices in every district, doing to identify these needs so that the proper demand is identified using its own people with resources? What is the ministry doing to empower and facilitate this through the districts other than waiting for hon. Members? As it is, it is creating a sense of dissatisfaction by painting a picture that there is something wrong happening. Therefore, what are the district officers from the hon. Minister’s ministry doing?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, indeed, this is a Government programme. We want to work with all hon. Members of Parliament so that, maybe, they can use the programme to mitigate the problems in their constituencies. We will not stop working or disbursing these resources simply because of hon. Members. Therefore, I agree with the hon. Member that we do not necessarily have to work with hon. Members of Parliament. Actually, where hon. Members are not proactive, we use our officers to implement this programme. In fact, …

Mr Kambwili indicated.

Mr Kaingu: Take it easy.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: In fact, engaging hon. Members is doing them a favour. Nowhere in the programme guidelines does it say that we can only disburse resources through them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the money in question has been politicised. The hon. Minister has not been clear on the criteria used in determining which women’s groups are to benefit from the fund. Could he be very specific on the criteria being used and explain why the CDF, which is an established fund, has not been used? This is because it would be fair if this was done because all hon. Members would be involved.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the modalities are that women should form groups or clubs, get registered with the Registrar of Societies and get a certificate.

Mr Nkhata: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: They should have a bank account. They should also provide a list of members of the executive committee, define the project they will be engaged in and how they will utilise the funds. Therefore, I do not see any politics here. In fact, what is political is to engage you, hon. Members.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, poverty is very painful for the poor.

Hon. Member: Bomfwa shani?

Mr Lubinda: I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he realises that parading women in large numbers, as he does, is actually to romanticise poverty.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Lubinda: Given the fact that this Government has offices everywhere in the country, would his Government not consider releasing this money to women’s clubs using established Government offices to give them dignity rather than parading them in stadia?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, what we are doing is to give political leadership …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: … to show how committed this Government is …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: … in alleviating poverty.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: I want to thank His Excellency the Republican President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for …

Mr Lubinda: For appointing you!

Mr Kaingu: …yes, for appointing me, of course, thank you very much …

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: … and for not appointing you.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the reason we bring these women together in stadia is to inspire those who are weak that …

Mrs Phiri: Aah!

Mr Kaingu: … there are women who are already involved in poverty alleviation programmes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: That is why we are going to bring the women together tomorrow and Friday in the Chifubu Stadium.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mubika: Hammer!

Laughter

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, the programme to empower the women at the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is commendable.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The women in Kawambwa are happy, especially those who have received the money and are busy working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the amount of K2 million will be increased to K5 million, especially for women who will perform well.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: Hon. Sichilima would have said, “Ndiye ma MP aya.”

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Which means that, “These are the MPs.”

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I have already said that I want to engage the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for more resources and I want you, hon. Members of Parliament, to support this programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has been seen giving out this money whilst dressed in the MMD chitenge material.

Hon. Government Members: Awe! Question!

Mr Beene: Now, to show that this is a national fund for all women, including those in the Opposition, could he consider not wearing the MMD chitenge material, but a suit.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the only time I wear the MMD chitenge shirt, which I proudly do, is during general elections when I am campaigning in my constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Outside my constituency, I wear fatigue clothes to show that I really want to fight for the Zambian women. I want to fight poverty in Zambia and leave an indelible mark in this country as far as poverty reduction is concerned. So, what the hon. Member is saying is not true.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated on the Floor of this House that he had formed 300 clubs in his constituency. I would like to find out whether all the 300 clubs have been funded because that translates to about K1.5 billion if each club is receiving K5 million.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, you can see for yourself that I cannot take K1.5 billion and give it to my constituency. The maximum amount each constituency can get is about K25 million. We can either give it to an association or through clubs. In my case, I have also just put the CDF to good use in my constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that these funds had been well managed. I would like him to empirically qualify how well these funds have been utilised to put the case to rest.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there are many women who are engaged in viable life-sustaining projects. So far, we have given out money to over 700 clubs. So, I want to assure you, hon. Member, that when we say that the resources are well managed, it means exactly that. They are well managed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister stated that he would rather use women to make drainages. I would like to know what mechanism he is going to put in place to ensure that he does not compromise engineering standards and quality and does not work against the Engineering Institute of Zambia Act.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there are times when I wonder whether this House really changes men’s professions. The hon. Member speaking is an engineer and his hearing is not impaired.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: He should have heard me clearly say that women were going to be used to clean drainages and not to construct them.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: In any case, we are already doing that through the Project Urban Self-Help (PUSH) Programme. The only thing that we do not want to do now is privatise the Government. We do not want the non-governmental organisations (NGOs) to be doing the work, but we want to do it ourselves, as the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, so that you can see that this hardworking Government is working with the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, whilst congratulating the ministry on having given Mwense Constituency a lot of money, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: … I would like to find out whether the ministry is considering engaging the sister ministry, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, so that the CDF can also be used to empower women? I say so because of the problems faced in many councils that prompt council managements to refuse to give this money to women.

Mrs Mwamba: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the guidelines on the use of the CDF are very clear. According to the guidelines, you can actually use the money on community-based programmes or projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to know if this money is, indeed, meant for the vulnerable because, on television, I saw an hon. Minister’s wife receiving a cheque from this fund. Is this money really for the vulnerable and if it is, does the hon. Minister’s wife qualify to be referred to as such?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, what we want to do now is build capacity by training the local leadership. We do not want to give money to people who do not know how to work with it or use it. I would, therefore, like to encourage hon. Members to train women in their constituencies, including their wives, in on how to run businesses before they apply for these funds.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, if you want to come back to the House, you should train your wives, but if they are going to abuse the money by buying clothes, that is unfortunate. I know that there are hon. Members on this side of the House and on the other side who have engaged their wives to work with other women.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: We want the educated wives of hon. Members of Parliament to work with their fellow women to provide leadership …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: … so that the money we give to them is put to good use.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Are there any more questions?

Laughter

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the money being emphasised here is for women’s clubs. …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga: I was wondering when the Government is going to think of providing money for men’s clubs so that we can strike a balance. Men are also in a similar situation to that of women.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that very good question. This programme is called gender in development and not women empowerment. This means that even men can access these resources. However, what has happened is that, unlike men, the women have been more proactive and have come forward. When monitoring, we discovered that the resources given to women are put to good use, but that those given to men …

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: Misused!

Mr Kaingu: Those words are coming from you.

I thank you, Sir

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is an hon. Member at the back there who has been trying to say something. Who is he?

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

That is the hon. Member I want to hear from. I want him to ask a question. Can you ask your question? Do not raise a point of order.

Laughter

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister clarify how much money is due to be given to the women’s clubs in every constituency?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member that question has already been answered. Now, the hon. Member for Kabushi (Mr Msichili) can ask his question.

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what mechanism the Government has put in place to ensure that the funds being disbursed to women are used as a venture from which they will be weaned off upon receiving this money to allow for others to come on board.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is why I said that the enlightened women, whether they are married to hon. Ministers or ordinary hon. Members, must help the women who receive these resources to manage the money to a level where they can graduate from being clubs to co-operatives and also graduate from receiving money from the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services to borrowing from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC).

Mr Speaker, I would like hon. Members, through their spouses, to help us monitor these resources.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Now that the workshop is over, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … I believe you will join me in complementing the hon. Minister for a job well done.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

CHOMA POST OFFICES

526. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport whether the Zambia Postal Services had any plans to establish post offices in the following places in Choma district:

(i) Sibanyati;

(ii) Masuku Mission;

(iii) Batoka; and

(iv) Sikalongo Mission.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the Zambia Postal Services Corporation has not received any request, formerly or informally, on the need for new post offices in the named places of Choma District.

However, Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that, currently, the Zambia Postal Services Corporation is not mandated to construct any new postal outlets. The corporation submits a list of potential areas, which require post offices to be constructed, to the ministry. The ministry, in turn, budgets for their construction. The identification of potential areas is done in consultation with the local communities, local civic leaders, politicians and the ministry. Once the budget is approved, construction of post offices is done through the Ministry of Works and Supply.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, postal services in rural areas are very important because they enable parents send money to their children who are in boarding schools. So, when will this Government consider putting up postal services in these big communities?

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, in my response, I mentioned that the issue of identification of potential areas for post offices is done in consultation with the local communities, local civic leaders and politicians like the hon. Member of Parliament. So, I am urging him to give us a list of areas in his constituency or district where the services of the Zambia Postal Services are sought. Otherwise, we cannot guess as a ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

GIRLS’ BOARDING SECONDARY SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION

527. Mr Imenda asked the Minister of Education when a girls’ boarding secondary school would be constructed in the Western Province.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education is constructing Nakaanya Girls Technical Boarding High School in Mongu. The school is expected to be completed by 2011 and will enrol 408 students from Grade 10 to 12.

I thank you, Sir.

KAKOSO HEALTH CENTRE EQUIPMENT

528. Mrs Banda (Chililambowe) asked the Minister of Health what had caused the delay in delivering an x-ray machine and theatre equipment to Kakoso Health Centre in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency when the infrastructure had been completed.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, it has taken long for the ministry to deliver the x-ray machine and theatre equipment to Kakoso because the expansion of the health centre was not planned for by the Ministry of Health. It was planned by the Zambia Social Investment Fund (ZAMSIF) funded project. Under the ZAMSIF project, Kakoso Health Centre was expanded with the construction of a theatre, laboratory, mortuary, x-ray and maternity blocks. This expansion was aimed at upgrading the services provided to first level hospital status. The ministry has, so far, equipped the mortuary which has since started operating. Plans are underway to provide equipment so that the laboratory, x-ray and theatre become operational. When the equipping process is over, the facility will operate as a referral first level hospital.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chililabombwe is not following up.

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, I am here.

Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister be specific as regards when all these things will be done because it has taken long considering that Chililabombwe has been contributing to national wealth. When is the Government going to, at least, give Chililabombwe a surprise so that its people can appreciate what it is doing?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, lest it is misunderstood that the Government does not care about the people of Chililabombwe, I want to make it very clear that it is not so by stating that projects that are done outside the ministry’s programme are difficult to satisfy. This is because, every year, the ministry itself has projects that it plans to complete or start. So, projects that are not co-ordinated by the ministry are very difficult to take up as it is funded with very little money.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, the problem that Hon. Banda has stated is known to the ministry and when it is able to procure the x-ray equipment, the clinic will be equipped.

I thank you, Sir.

MAMBULWE/CHOMBWA ROAD

529. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the rehabilitation of the Mambulwe/Chombwa Road would begin.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has no immediate plans to rehabilitate the Mambulwe/Chombwa Road. However, the road is being considered for maintenance using the Government-owned equipment managed by the Rural RoadS Unit (RRU) subject to the availability of funds and the priorities as determined by the provincial administration.

I thank you, Sir.

KASAMA/LUWINGU ROAD

530. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how much money was spent on the tarring of the Kasama/Luwingu Road from 2001 to date; and

(b) how many companies had been contracted for works on the same road.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the contractor has carried out works amounting to K254 billion since the construction of the Kasama/Luwingu Road started in November, 2001 to date.

Mr Speaker, only one company, Messrs Sable Transport Limited, has been contracted to carry out works on the said road since November, 2001.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we are all aware that the contract with Sable Transport Limited was terminated some years back. Could the hon. Minister indicate why the Government decided, again, to sign a fresh agreement with the company.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the reason the Government decided to terminate the contract, at that time, was because it was unable to provide funding to the project for fear of paying interest accrued because of idle time. Therefore, it was only logical that the contract be terminated. It was not on an account of lack of performance on the part of the contractor at the time.

I thank you, Sir.

MBESUMA BRIDGE

531. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Works and Supply how much money was originally budgeted for the construction of the Mbesuma Bridge.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the initial cost of completing the construction of the Mbesuma Bridge in 2000 was K10 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister spell out exactly when the project on the said bridge will commence.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the design of the bridge is being done. All that is being awaited is funding, which is, in fact, the reason the project has stalled. So, as soon as the House allocates funds to the bridge and the money is released by the Treasury, the project will commence.

HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION

532. Mr Chazangwe asked the MinIster of Education:

(a) what financial resources the ministry had set aside in view of the Government policy to:

(i) abolish the cut-off point system for pupils proceeding into Grade 8; and
(ii) obtain a full certificate for pupils proceeding into Grade 10;

(b) whether the development of a new extensive curriculum had started and, if so, what the progress was; and

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the Government has not abolished the cut-off point system for the pupils that are proceeding to Grade 8. In the meantime, the Government has been using the cut-off point to determine the number of pupils proceeding into Grade 8, in view of the limited school places. The Government is committed to achieving universal primary education by 2015. This would mean making available school places for all children of school-going age from Grade 1 to 9.

In order to facilitate the achievement of this goal, the Government developed a strategy to construct additional classroom space at basic school level using both community and contractor base modes. In line with this strategy, the Government, in 2008, built 1,524 classrooms and 2,500 classrooms in 2009. In 2010, the Government will construct a total of 2,016 classrooms. Resources permitting, the Government will continue with this programme of school construction on an annual basis.

The current policy is to allow all children with full certificates to proceed into Grade 10. This policy was made by the Government to allow more children to access high school education. In order to achieve this goal, the Government has been setting aside financial resources to build additional schools and classrooms at high school level. In 2007, the Government began the construction of additional high schools. Currently, forty-five high schools are under construction. By 2015, the Government would have built 100 high schools countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the development of an extensive curriculum started with consultations with stakeholders and the holding of the curriculum symposium for their input in 2009. This was done with a view to identifying gaps in terms of content, knowledge, skills, values and attitudes that learners acquire in each learning area. A road map has since been developed and it is expected that a new curriculum will be in place by 2012. The number of teachers will be determined after the curriculum has been reviewed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

___________ {mospagebreak}

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE NATIONAL PROSECUTION AUTHORITY BILL, 2010

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Mwansa) (on behalf of the Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.)): Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from the President recommending favourable consideration of the Motion I now lay on the Table.

Dr Mwansa laid the document on the Table.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I beg to introduce a Bill entitled the National Prosecution Authority Bill, 2010. The objects of this Bill are to:

(a) establish the National Prosecution Authority and provide for its powers and functions;

(b) provide a framework for the effective administration of criminal justice;

(d) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

… on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 3rd August, 2010. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE ANIMAL HEALTH BILL, 2010

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Animal Health Bill, 2010. The objects of this Bill are to:

(a) provide for the appointment of the director responsible for veterinary services and other staff and define their powers and functions;

(b) provide for the prevention and control of animal diseases;

(d) regulate the importation and exportation of animals, animal products, animal by-products, articles and animal feed;

(e) establish the Animal Disease Control Fund;

(f) repeal and replace the Stock Diseases Act, 1961; and

(g) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Agriculture and Lands. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 3rd August, 2010. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Animal Identification Bill, 2010. The objects of this Bill are to:

(a) provide for the registration of animal identification marks and marking operators;

(b) provide for the appointment of the Registrar of Animal Identification;

(d) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE CATTLE CLEANSING (REPEAL) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Cattle Cleansing (Repeal) Bill, 2010. The object of this Bill is to repeal the Cattle Cleansing Act.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE TSETSE CONTROL (REPEAL) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Tsetse Control (Repeal) Bill, 2010. The object of this Bill is to repeal the Tsetse Control Act.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE CATTLE SLAUGHTER (CONTROL) (REPEAL) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Cattle Slaughter (Control) (Repeal) Bill, 2010. The object of this Bill is to repeal the Cattle Slaughter (Control) Act.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE AGRICULTURE (FERTILISERS AND FEED) (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2010

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill, 2010. The object of this Bill is to amend the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) Act so as to:

(a) repeal the provisions relating to the regulation of farm feed; and

(b) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

___________

MOTIONS

SECOND REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the second report of the Committee on Estimates for the First Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 12th July, 2010.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in line with its terms of reference, your Committee considered the performance of mining taxation for the period 2007 to 2009 and the performance of the first quarter of the 2010 Budget for selected ministries.

Your Committee also undertook verification tours to selected projects being undertaken by the Government. It also reviewed the action-taken report on your previous Committee’s report.

Sir, as you are aware, the Government, in 2008, introduced new tax measures meant to help the country benefit from high metal prices. Significant among the measures were the following:

(i) the introduction of windfall tax;

(ii) increasing of mineral royalty from 0.6 per cent to 3 per cent;

(iii) hedging income was treated as a separate activity from mining; and

(iv) capital allowance was reduced from 100 per cent to 25 per cent.

These measures were highly recommended by stakeholders. However, in 2009, the Government decided to vary the mining fiscal regime by:

(i) removing the windfall tax and retaining variable profit tax, which would capture any windfall gains that may arise in the sector;

(ii) allowing hedging income to be part of the mining income for tax purposes; and

(iii) increasing capital allowances to 100 per cent as an investment incentive.

Your Committee contended that withdrawing the 2008 tax regime deprived Zambians of the revenue from the high metal prices.

Mr Speaker, the concern of stakeholders is that revenue-based taxes are easier to administer compared to profit-based taxes. Your Committee is aware that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) does not have adequate capacity to ascertain tax liabilities by the mining companies. In this regard, it is possible for some of the companies to under declare profits through transfer pricing. In addition, the companies are enjoying a 100 per cent capital allowance and, as such, they will continue to declare low profits. This way, the country will not benefit from the windfall gains by the mining companies.

You Committee is aware that minerals, like other extractive industries, are a wasting asset. Sir, your Committee observed that the matter of mining taxation remains an unfinished business and urges the Government to continue exploring the various options so as to come up with a fairer tax regime that will benefit both the country and the mining companies. At the moment, there is a perception that there are more benefits accruing to the mining companies than to Zambians.

Your Committee was also concerned that in order to retain an attractive investment, the Government has continued to give generous incentives to the investors. Your Committee wishes to remind the Government that incentives are not free. The Government has to give up some programmes meant to benefit the majority of Zambians due to loss of revenue.

In the case of copper mining in Zambia, some stakeholders wondered whether the issue of attracting investment is based on incentives or the availability of copper itself as Zambia is one of the few countries with significant copper deposits. Your Committee is of the view that investors will always come whether generous incentives are granted or not.

Your Committee, therefore, recommendS that the Government should directly address the impediments to investments, such as poor road and railway infrastructure as opposed to granting generous incentives to mining companies.

Mr Speaker, on the review of the performance of the first quarter of the 2010 Budget, your Committee observed that the Government made an assurance to bring the Budget Bill for enactment to improve the Budget process in the country. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government, as a matter of urgency, to present to the House the Budget Bill for enactment without any further delay.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that most of the projects undertaken by various ministries and departments take long to be completed. This is mainly as a result of late or non-release of funds by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to ministries, provinces and spending agencies. The late release of the resources increases the cost of the projects as, sometimes, the incomplete projects such as roads are washed away with the onset of the rains or the Government is required to pay demobilisation and remobilisation costs.

Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to ensure that adequate resources are available before commencing major projects. Further, the Government should also ensure that releases for such projects are done on time.

Mr Speaker, your Committee bemoaned the poor quality of projects being undertaken by various ministries and departments. This has been, mainly, attributed to failure by contractors in the ministries to engage experts in the Ministry of Works and Supply before undertaking construction works. Your Committee recommends that all construction projects should involve the Ministry of Works and Supply to avoid wastage of resources through the construction of sub standard infrastructure.

Further, your Committee urges the Government to progressively continue to increase funding to ministries from local resources to take care of possible fluctuations in donor funding.

Your Committee visited the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) in Nakonde and was disturbed to find the officers operating in a container despite collecting significant revenue. It also came to light that there were only two offices for RTSA in the Northern Province. This means that owners of vehicles have to travel long distances to register their vehicles. Your Committee recommends that RTSA be decentralised to all districts by collaborating with local authorities. Further, your Committee urges the Government to address the office accommodation challenges being faced by RTSA in Nakonde.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that the removal of grain levy has adversely affected councils that are mainly dependent on agricultural activities such as Mpongwe District Council. Some stakeholders continued to argue that the crop levy that was removed was not a relief on the farmers, but on the grain traders. Your Committee recommends that the decision to abolish the crop levy should be reviewed in the light of what has happened to the councils that were heavily dependent on the crop levy. You may wish to know that the financing situation of such councils has depreciated as a result of low grants given in lieu of grain levy and the late release of grants by the Government. Furthermore, it is important for a full assessment of what councils have lost as a result of the removal of the crop levy to be comprehensively undertaken.

In conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee was also grateful to the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation and input into the deliberations.

Lastly, your Committee’s appreciation is also extended to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to the Committee during the session.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee. In seconding the Motion, I will only touch on a few issues that have not been highlighted by the Chairperson.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that when the 2008 tax regime was enacted, some mining companies refused to pay the tax. Your Committee is aware that refusing to pay is unlawful. It, therefore, recommends that the Government should reinforce the law requiring all companies to pay taxes. Your committee urges the Government to take advantage of the goodwill by the Zambians and the multi-lateral co-operating partners such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank to impress on the mining companies to pay the necessary taxes.

Mr Speaker, your Committee toured the construction project of the One Stop Border Post in Nakonde. It applauds the Government for the project because it will assist in decongesting the customs border post. Your Committee was also pleased to hear that the building of the One Stop Border Post would also accommodate the RTSA officers who were, currently, operating in a container.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was concerned that, at the time of the tour, there were reports that the Government intended to suspend the construction of the One Stop Border Post. It is aware that the suspension of the project will delay the completion of this important project thereby allowing congestion as a result of delays in clearing. Your Committee is also aware that it will be more costly to suspend the project than it would be to complete it within the required period of time because of the mobilisation costs. Therefore, your Committee urges the Government to continue with the project and ensure that it is completed within the stipulated period of time.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that the Mpika/Nakonde Road was in a deplorable state and as such, it was discouraging potential importers from clearing goods through Nakonde Border Post. Your Committee is alive to the fact that the Nakonde/Mpika Road is of economic importance to Zambia as traders from the Far East pass through Dar-es-Salaam to Zambia and transport their goods through this route. In addition, trade between Zambia and Tanzania has generally increased over time. As such, your Committee recommends that the Mpika/Nakonde Road be rehabilitated as a matter of urgency.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika- Molobeka: The road, if rehabilitated, will promote trade between Zambia and Tanzania.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is concerned about the Zambia/Tanzania Border which is very porous. Smugglers have created their own routes where goods worth millions of dollars pass without being declared. This situation is depriving the Treasury of the revenue needed to meet various challenges facing the country. In this light, your Committee recommends that measures should be put in place to ensure that all traders are compelled to pass through the designated route and declare their goods through customs.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the members of your Committee for allowing me to second this important Motion. I also wish to join the Chairperson in thanking you, Sir, for according us an opportunity to serve on this important Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this important report of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I must declare interest right from the onset by stating that I am part of your Committee. In supporting this report, I would like to indicate that the performance of the first quarter of the financial year, 2010, has been below par. In the first quarter, there was an underperformance in the collection of tax by 10 per cent and 62 per cent for non-tax.

These figures show that what was budgeted could not be realised because the Budget underperformed. Obviously, there could be various factors that contributed to the underperformance and among them are infrastructure and the state of offices in which the revenue collectors operate.

Mr Speaker, the nation requires all the necessary resources to foster development. It is, therefore, critical that the ministry responsible for the collection of revenue takes cognisance of the fact that until suitable conditions are put in place to complement and supplement the efforts in revenue collection, what we appropriate in this House will fall below our anticipation.

Mr Speaker, on page 16 of the report of your Committee, a tour was undertaken to Kasaba Bay where an international airport is being constructed and the idea is welcome. However, I would like to state that unless that project is completed before the onset of the rainy season, it might be a waste of national resources. I, therefore, urge the Government to release more funds to the project so that it is completed before the onset of the rains. Once the rains start, all the works that have been done will be washed into the lake and what a waste of resources that will be.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Therefore, the ministry responsible for this project must ensure that it collaborates with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to complete it on time to safeguard the resources that are being spent.

Mr Speaker, it must be noted that infrastructure is critical to revenue collection. In the absence of proper infrastructure, it is difficult to encourage importers and exporters to pay the necessary revenue that this nation needs. Therefore, all economic infrastructure such as the roads, alluded to by both the mover and the seconder, must be given priority. If we are to extend infrastructure development to other areas, it will depend on how much revenue we are able to collect. We must not gloss over this issue. It is critical that we increase our revenue collection base. If we do not do that, we shall forever be arguing with each other and hon. Ministers shall continue to sing the song of “When funds are available.” Now, the question is: When will funds ever be available if we do not enhance the revenue collection? Until we enhance …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was emphasising the need to enhance the capacity of the people involved in revenue collection in order to increase the revenue of the nation. One of the factors I attributed to was the road infrastructure, particularly the ones that lead to places where revenue is collected.

Madam Speaker, the Nakonde Border Post is one area where revenue that significantly contributes to the National Treasury is collected. However, despite this, it is amazing how many Zalewa there are in that area. I use the word Zalewa to refer to the porous state of the border post. There are so many areas where people cross with goods without paying any tax to the Government. I hope that the Government takes this into account and ensures that every person who imports and exports is netted into the tax base.

With these few remarks, I support the report of your Committee.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to support the Motion. I will be brief …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: … and confine myself to two issues, which are the windfall tax and the crop levy.

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I am glad that your Committee …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kambwili paused.

Hon. Government Member: Akulanda, iwe.

Mr Kambwili: I am glad that your Committee has come out strongly …

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member has persisted with his point of order. Can you raise your point of order on the procedure in the House?

Dr Katema: I rise on a serious point of order. Zambia was declared a measles-free country by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the hon. Minister of Health informed the House and the nation about this. This proclamation was due to the vigorous campaign launched by the Zambian people in conjunction with our co-operating partners, the donors. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to remain quiet, when an epidemic of measles has broken out in the country, without informing this House, the nation and all the nations that assisted us about how many people have been affected and how many deaths have, so far, occurred instead of leaving us to listen to misleading data from here and there? I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member has really struggled, through the day, to raise that point of order. There is a need to consult before raising these points of order. However, the Chair is aware that the ministry is coming, here, through the hon. Minister, to bring a ministerial statement and I hope he will do so as soon as he is ready. If he is ready, tomorrow, that would be good, but a statement on that matter is in the process of being brought to the House.

The hon. Member for Roan may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam I was saying that I am glad that your Committee has come out strongly to urge the Government to reintroduce the windfall tax. Every responsible government represents its people. With regard to this issue, it appears that the Government is not being sincere because people have called for the reintroduction of windfall tax. I believe that in, a democratic State, the majority carries the day, but, in this case of the windfall tax, it is only the people in the Government who are busy defending its removal against the masses and technocrats in the field of mining.

The Government is only being supported by the Chamber of Mines, which we all know is financed by the mining companies and, in fact, is their mouthpiece. Therefore, its advice on windfall tax cannot be taken seriously. I urge the Government to seriously check its conscience.

Madam Speaker, I have not seen a lot of new faces on your right. I see the same faces that were in this House when the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC. introduced the windfall tax. In fact, Hon. M. Mwale, who has been in the forefront in …

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: … refusing and issuing statements that windfall tax should not be reintroduced, was a Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development then. I am now wondering whether Hon. M. B. Mwale and Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa misled the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC., on the introduction of the windfall tax. I am glad that Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa has not been vocal on this issue, …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: … but Hon. M. B. Mwale …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, it is important to talk to ministries and hon. Ministers because if you start mentioning individual persons, your debate will attract attention. If you are to speak, address the Government and its hon. Ministers.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Kambwili: I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

I am wondering whether the hon. Ministers who were in that ministry misled the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC. In fact, when the announcement was made, in this House, I remember very well that the late President Mwanawasa, SC. even said, “For the sake of Hon. Kambwili, I will repeat this.”

Mr D. Mwila: Yes!

Mr Kambwili: It is because I was joyful on that day and the hon. Members on your right were shouting, “Boma, Boma, Boma!”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I am wondering whether, in Zambia, hon. Ministers are now going to follow their principles or do away with them for the sake of keeping their jobs. What has changed? The only thing that has changed about this Government is that Mr Mwansawasa, SC. died and Mr Rupiah Banda became President. However, everything else has remained the same. It is surprising to note that, today, the people who supported President Mwanawasa, SC. are the ones who are against the reintroduction of the windfall tax.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Kambwili: This shows that these people are just there to keep their ministerial jobs and not to serve the Zambian people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I would like them to check their conscience and see whether what they are doing is right for the people of Zambia or their own pockets.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer!

Mr Kambwili: As regards the Chamber of Mines, we know that it is funded by the mining companies and its advice should not be taken seriously because it knows that if it does not speak out on behalf of the mining companies, it will not be given the grants it needs to run its organisation.

I am appealing to the Government to seriously look into the issue of windfall tax. We are crying because teachers and nurses cannot be paid well. Madam, even we, hon. Members of Parliament, cannot be paid well because we are not collecting enough revenue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Therefore, the onus is on the Government to ensure that it collects windfall tax. In only one year that the windfall tax was introduced, we, as a nation, could have collected US$400 million which is a lot of money to run the affairs of this country. Today, the people in the Governement are always singing songs about how there is no money to do this and that, and yet there is money that can be collected. Why does the Government want to treat investors with kid gloves? It is supposed to maximise the collection of revenue on behalf of the people of Zambia.

Today, a lot of people cannot go to hospitals because there are no drugs. People cannot go to schools because they do not have money for school fees, but we can run a free education system if we collected windfall tax. To make matters worse, some of the companies that were supposed to have paid windfall tax, to date, have not. It appears that we are more scared.

Madam Speaker, there are a lot of countries in the world that are applying windfall tax and investors have not pulled out therefrom. Why does the Governement give us the story that investors will pull out? In any case, your argument that exploration will not continue is lopsided. It is better to stop exploration so that we leave the mineral resources for the future generation, which will come and maximise the collection of revenue from the mining industry, other than continuing to explore the resources when we are not getting anything out of them as a country. You must be ashamed of yourselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the Government has said it is going to consult Norway on the new mining taxation system. When we were introducing the windfall tax, Norway was consulted and it advised us to collect the tax. Why is the Government going back to Norway, and yet it did not heed its advice? Is the Government trying to cosmetically make things appear as if it is consulting when, in fact, it will not take the advice? Please, reintroduce the windfall tax.

Madam Speaker, there is absolutely nothing we are getting from the mining industries because miners are lowly paid. The highest paid miner on the general payroll gets about K3.5 million while the lowest gets about K700,000.00. If they cannot pay the workers well and also not pay windfall tax, what is there for the Zambians? We are disturbed on the roads, everyday, when trucks move from the Copperbelt, blocking and damaging our roads, and yet we are collecting nothing at all. How can copper, which is the mainstay of our economy, contribute less to the revenue of this country? Unless you become serious in the way you think, you will continue arguing about the reintroduction of the windfall tax.

My advice and timely warning to the Government is that if it wants to get even half of the votes, next year, it should reintroduce the windfall tax. Otherwise, it will be disastrous.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: On the issue of the grain levy, I would like to state that the Luanshya Municipal Council and our neighbours, Mpongwe and Masaiti district councils, are not able to pay their workers now because of the abolishment of the levy. The Government said it was going to be giving them grants, but those grants are not forthcoming. Councils like Mpongwe were able to sustain themselves and Hon. Namulambe can agree with me that it did not have any problems in as far as paying its employees was concerned. This is the first time that Mpongwe is facing this problem and it is because of the careless decision to remove the crop levy. I am appealing to the Government to look at the issue of crop levy seriously and reintroduce it.

Madam Speaker, I said I was going to be very brief and, therefore, with these few words, I support the report.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I stand to salute your office for allowing your Committee to see the expanse of the fresh waters of Lake Tanganyika. I think your Committee appreciated the natural beaches which have prompted the Government to fund the Kasaba Bay Airport.

Madam Speaker, I will restrict myself to page 15 (iv) and (v) of your Committee’s report. I want to learn what the Committee meant by the submissions in its report when two other Committees of this House have reported that the viability of Kasaba Bay is second to none, hence the prudent decision by the Government to open up the rural area for development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, in this vein, the Government has been prudent enough to establish the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) and cutting K60 billion from the proposed K140 billion for the Kasaba Bay Airport. We are using the Chinese condemned equipment to make that airport. The civil works and excavations are being done by civil servants under this good Government.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of ecology, most of the hon. Members in this House have travelled more than 100 times and have landed at airports in national parks. If they carried out some research, they would find that most of the airports are in national parks. Therefore, the Kasaba Bay Airport will not be a peculiar case. When the Government talks about the Northern Circuit, it does not just refer to the Kasaba Bay tourism project alone, but Kaputa, Mporokoso, Mbala and Mpulungu districts as well.

Madam Speaker, your Committee entered Kasaba Bay through Mpulungu District and it got the information to use this route from the District Commissioners of the Mpulungu and Mbala districts.

Unfortunately, your Committee is reporting, on page 22, that Kasaba Bay has insufficient bed space when they even had a chance to reach the Ndole Bay Lodge, which is a very good investment put up by the bazungu in that area. The Committee saw the vast expanse of sand in that area and even played volleyball there.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, in its report, states that there is no economic rationale behind the establishment of an international airport at Kasaba Bay, which has limited bed space. However, Kasaba Bay is not restricted to that area alone. The airport will service the entire Northern Circuit and Zambia at large so that we draw even people beyond Livingstone to appreciate the natural resources which are in this country.

Mr V. Mwale: Talk about Nsumbu!

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, I will continue to refute your Committee’s claim of not building an international airport in Kasaba Bay. Today, the Government has proposed to create the Lusaka National Park where we cannot even see a rabbit. The Government is like, as we say in Bemba, “Anaela abapanga ichuma mufya chabechabe.” This means that it can create wealth from anything. The Government will restock the Lusaka National Park, which will be in Kabwata, and I am happy to note that the hon. Member for Kabwata appreciated the shores of Kasaba Bay.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, some members of your Committee thought that the Government was waiting for a Zimbabwean investor to invest in Kasaba Bay, but they were ashamed to see that there is also Nkamba Bay which is operational. The Government is helping to reduce costs by putting up electricity poles from Mbala to Nsumbu. This shows that it is doing everything to reduce overheads and bring investment to the area.

Hon. Member: Tell them!

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, I would like to differ with the comments of your Committee on page 15, (v) where it says, and I quote:

“The transformation of the Kasaba Bay Airport into an international airport will require corresponding infrastructure such as accommodation for airport staff, health and education facilities.”

Madam, just here in Lusaka, not all members of staff of the National Airport Corporation sleep at the airport.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: They just work in shifts. Even miners do not sleep in the mines. They work in shifts. The Government has a system and, as such, there are houses that have already been built in Nsumbu. Unfortunately, your Committee only went as far as the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) gate where it met a park ranger who misled its members. The Committee just met one person in Nsumbu.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Fortunately, some of them had a chance to see the market which is being built through the good thinking of the hon. Member of that area who is using the CDF.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: I want to tell the House that the Committee’s argument does not carry any water. You will never find a hospital at any international airport. Therefore, it is enough that there is a hospital which is being built right next to the international airport. What does the Committee mean by referring to health facilities? There is a miniclinic which has always been in existence and a good health centre will be developed in Nsumbu. These factors should have been appreciated by your Committee.

Madam Speaker, a developmental programme has already been drawn. Therefore, I wish your Committee had consulted the previous Inter-ministerial Committee, which toured that area, or the Ministry of Works and Supply and other committees who, through their support, the developmental programme, which I have among my documents, was drawn.

Madam Speaker, the assertion that Kasaba Bay Airport cannot be turned into an international airport because there are no houses to support the staff is misleading. When the Committee toured Kasaba Bay Airport, it observed that it was tarred as opposed to Kasama. Therefore, that is a manifestation that this airport has been in existence for a long time and even President Kaunda attached importance to it. If anything, it was supposed to be turned into an international airport even before Mfuwe International Airport.

Madam Speaker, further on page 15, (iv), your Committee says:

“Kasaba Bay is in the game park area and, as such, might not warrant the development of an international airport. The huge planes such as a Boeing 737-800 envisaged to land in the area might disturb its ecology due to noise.”

This is a good submission, but the Government does not work in isolation. It works with the Department of Conservation under ZAWA and the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) that does the assessment for every project that takes place. At one point, there was even a misunderstanding over the sand dune the Committee saw towards the lake, but the ECZ consulted the community in Nsumbu and it was resolved. Thus, the ecology cannot be disturbed because it is in the last part of Nsumbu National Park. That is why the Government …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. member may get close to the microphone.

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, Kasaba Bay is the smallest part of Nsumbu National Park which is about 15,000 square kilometres. It is the fifth largest from the Kafue National Park. As such, the information in this report is misleading because it gives the impression that the Government did not consider the people who discussed this issue with the ECZ. For the Government to take this route, there were a lot of consultations beyond what the Committee got from that park ranger who misled it.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, it is sad that a Government official can mislead your Committee which, based on that information, came up with this report. Your Committee just talked to a casual worker for Global Construction who had just moved to that area. The Committee even talked to the people who were putting up power poles in that area, but did not get the correct information. I tried to advise it to get information on how to move from me, but it did not. In the end, it was misled and ended up producing this report which is a let down to this House.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, the few issues I have raised are what prompted me to debate the Motion on this report. I, therefore, urge the members of your Committee to get proper information in the near future. At the stage at which the construction of the airport has reached, whatever politics can be engaged cannot compel the Government to withdraw. It will never withdraw.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, in 2008, when the late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., talked about the issue of Kasaba Bay, you people complained about the waste of money.

Hon. Members: Who?

Mr Sikazwe: Hon. Members on the left.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

In order not to provoke hon. Members who are listening to the debate, the hon. Member will speak through the Chair.

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, I wanted to tell them that whatever the President …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

I do not want to hear what you wanted to tell them, just debate.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, the late President said that he would open up rural areas. When the incumbent President allocated resources, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, he reiterated that he also wanted to open up the rural areas.

Madam Speaker, even areas that we appreciate, for example, Dubai, were once rural areas like Kasaba Bay. However, their governments put up a lot of money to develop them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, today, rumours are circulating, without clarification from the Ministry of Tourism and Environment and Natural Resources, on some Congolese wanting to invest in our country. Why are the people spreading these rumours jittery about this investment? We, as a Government, are happy to open investment because it creates employment for the people of Zambia.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, at the moment, people in Chimbamilonga, Kaputa District and the surrounding districts are employed in construction companies. The civil servants driving the machinery for the RRU are also benefiting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: The expertise being exhibited shows that the Government has a lot of people who can do a better job than some contractors being awarded contracts.

Madam Speaker, the Kasaba Bay Airport project is the best thing that the Government has ever done in the area and it is a move in the right direction. Had the Government embarked on this project some twenty years ago, the area would have been totally different today.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that your Committee saw the beautiful scenery …

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: … and, for the first time, some people saw the beautiful beach along Lake Tanganyika with an expanse of 50 kilometres of water. It also has to be noted that Nsumbu National Park is the only park on this lake.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate this Motion. I would like to make it very clear that I support the report of your Committee. I think that is has done a very good job.

Madam Speaker, I will restrict my debate to pages 2 to 7 of the report. I like to be consistent in my approach to issues and I want to talk about issues pertaining to taxes. It is not very often that I agree with Hon. Kambwili …

Mr Kambwili: Aah!

Dr Machungwa: …but, maybe, today, I might somewhat.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, our country needs a lot of resources to develop education, health and road infrastructure. Sometime last year, a group of hon. Members, including myself, had the opportunity to visit Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). It was evident that there was a lot of investment to develop Konkola Deep Mining Project and construct plants in Chingola. It was quite impressive.

Madam Speaker, one of the issues that the mining company raised was the problem of infrastructure. We were told that it was very difficult to transport copper to ports in Dar-es-salaam or South Africa, for instance, because the roads in the country were in a deplorable state. The railway line was equally in a bad state. The company, therefore, advised us to urge the Government to invest in the road and railway network so that they could transport copper under less difficult conditions.

The issue we raised, which I remember very well, is the fact that they were making quite reasonable profits in spite of the fact that they were still investing. We asked them where they thought the Government would get money to improve the road and railway network for them to transport their goods. Did they expect people in villages to tighten their belts to find billions of kwacha, which they were not capable of finding, to improve the road and railway network? We emphasised the fact that they ought to invest a little more in terms of tax so that roads could be improved and, in the end, benefit both themselves and the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, these are the good times in the mining industry. Copper prices have gone up and a lot of these companies are making good money. It makes sense that the Zambian people get something out of it to improve their country at large. Surely, if copper prices increase, not as a result of additional investment, costs, improved management skills or technology, but they just happen, hence the name windfall, does it not make sense that a country and the people get something out of that? This is basically what we are saying.

Last year was difficult because of the global financial crisis. As a result of this and some other reasons, the Government was willing to consider the tax structure. However, things are changing now. Is it not possible that, as a people and leaders of the people of Zambia, we review this so that we can get a little more from the mines for our people?

Whereas the Government may have had very good reasons in the past, I think that it is important that we review the tax mechanism now that things have changed.

Madam Speaker, the Chamber of Commerce argued that there is a difference when charging windfall tax for open pit mining and underground mining. I agree that it is more costly to mine underground than mining on the surface. Kansanshi and Nchanga are open pit mines, but, surely, we can take this into consideration, because we know that if one is mining underground, they will incur more costs. Therefore, even when charging windfall tax, we will consider that the mining on the surface should pay a little more than those mining underground. This is something that we can do. It should not be used as an argument for windfall not to be charged.

Madam Speaker, the other issue, which has been dealt with adequately in the report is the issue of determining profitability. Mining companies are complex organisations. The KCM, for instance, is part of Vedanta which is an international company with operations all over the world. It is very difficult to determine the profits because, naturally, even though companies agree to pay a certain percentage as tax, they would rather pay as little tax as possible. This is the reality. It is the same with individuals. If they can get away with paying very little or no tax at all, they will do it. Speaking as a psychologist, this is normal.

Therefore, a system has to exist to make sure that people pay tax. It should be the same with mining companies. These are multi-national companies and so they can use transfer pricing between companies among their subsidiaries, management fees, shareholder loans and various other systems and techniques to enable them pay as little tax as possible. No matter how sophisticated the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) is, it will not be in a position to effectively and adequately audit and monitor these mining companies. That is why taxes like the windfall tax that are easy to collect are preferable.

The option of variable tax is viable, but, as I said, you are fighting a war with these people. A businessperson is not a philanthropist. He cannot come here to just be giving us money. If they could get away with it, they would rather take everything they have made and go. Therefore, we have to find ways of making them pay.

I feel saddened by the fact that some companies refused to pay tax and the Government has not taken them to task. If anyone of us owed the Government something or was sentenced to so many hours and then refused to go, they would come and grab you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: Why can we not also do something about these companies? The Government must stand up for the people. Let us look like we are powerful. This is our own country. We cannot have some small companies come here and refuse to pay tax and then we just sit. If one of us did not pay something, we would be grabbed and locked up. Therefore, I would like to urge whoever is responsible to pursue this matter so that we can have more income.

Madam Speaker, my last comment is that the Government needs to re-look at the tax system with regard to the mines. We may have had to bend backwards when there was an economic crisis, but as things are improving now, let us sit down. Let us not negotiate like we are begging and think that people who have put in so much money in the mines are going to stop and withdraw their equipment from the mines if we increase taxes a little bit. It is not possible for them to do that. They are making good money, thus, they will not leave. Let us negotiate a little something like that. I support this report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, in the first instance, may I congratulate the Committee that gathered enough data to bring out such an intelligent and constructive report. I will be very brief in my submission before this august House.

Madam Speaker, where on earth have you found investors commanding and dictating a host country the amount of tax that they ought to pay? Where have you found such a situation? If you look at Latin America, which produces copper, it is not the investors who dictate the tax they are supposed to be paying, but the host country. It is the host government that should come up with a tax mechanism.

Madam Speaker, this Government has failed in this area. It has developed a jelly-back when dealing with the taxation of the investors. Our schools and roads are in a dilapidated state. My colleagues that have debated prudently have clearly spelt out the difficulties that this country is going through. What is the yardstick used to measure corruption? The yardstick used to measure corruption is when a tax man fails to collect the due tax and closes his eyes as though the person who is supposed to pay it is not responsible for it. It is all about corruption.

Madam Speaker, we can firmly say that we have a problem in our midst. There is no good reason for the Government to fail to walk into any mining company and tell its owners, “Look, what is wrong with you?” The Government can draw to the attention of the companies the damaged state of the roads they use to transport their mining equipment and cite examples such as the Kafue Road and the road to Mazabuka. The stretch from Mazabuka to Lusaka is almost a nightmare to drive on because of the heavy equipment that has wrecked the road within a short period of its rehabilitation.

Madam Speaker, the roads in the Southern Province, which bring in the imports, are in a bad state. We will only be left with the Zimba/Livingstone Road because of overloading the road network. The railway system which should supplement the road haulage is in pieces because of corruption.

Madam Speaker, we should find a way of fighting corruption together as a whole in this august House. It is the only clear indicator that someone somewhere is collecting money from these mines. There must be somebody collecting money and putting it in their pocket and smiling.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Yet, we and the rest of the Republic of Zambia have no money.

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Musokotwane: Are you the one being referred to?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to make the allegation that somebody is pocketing money without substantiating it? I need your serious ruling.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member on the Floor is encouraged to bring out facts clearly rather than make points of speculation which would make people start imagining who he is talking about. Hon. Members debate facts. The hon. Member may choose to bring out the facts of those he knows. If he does not, then what he is saying will not be clear.

May he continue, please.

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, as a senior hon. Member of Parliament, I am much obliged. I will make my debate straightforward.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: In a very clear manner, President Banda has stood on the floor of various platforms challenging his Executive about the existence of corruption. The late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., in this august House, confirmed that there was corruption. What more evidence do you want me to give you?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo mudala! Bwekeshapo!

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, we have a big problem. It is like a cancer. Let us tackle this cancer. It is the only way we can march forward and have a better tomorrow. Let us not defend ourselves cosmetically.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor. I will start by commending your Committee on a well articulated report. I will limit my comments to the review of the Budget performance of the first quarter of 2010.

Madam Speaker, one of the observations noted was on the Budget Bill. It is important to state that a full ministerial statement will be presented on the planning and budget legislation during this Session so that all the issues pertaining to this can be clearly and comprehensively articulated.

Madam Speaker, as regards the inadequate and late release of funds for projects, we agree with the recommendations by the Committee that adequate resources should be made available before commencing projects. However, it is also important to appreciate the fact that the disbursement of funds to ministries and other spending agencies is based on revenues collected at a given time. Therefore, this means that whenever there is a shortfall in revenue, certain programmes will ultimately be affected.

Madam Speaker, apart from this, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning also takes into consideration expenditure profiles as submitted by ministries and spending agencies. The ministry also takes into account the availability of the certificate of completion of the projects. This is in order to avoid the disbursement of funds to ministries and spending agencies which are inadequate and inappropriate. As we have always stated, the solution to inadequate funding lies in long-term measures. This Government believes that the solution lies in the country having sustained economic growth. It is for this reason that this Government has put up a number of initiatives to stimulate growth in the various sectors of our economy such as the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Other initiatives, include the introduction of farming blocks and diversification of the economy which was heavily dependent on copper. We are now taking care of our fisheries and restocking our ranches so that we can grow other aspects of our economy as opposed to being overly dependent on copper.

The House has also been told about the country’s tourism projects and what is going on in the Northern Circuit. This, Madam Speaker, is a long-term and focused outlook by this Government. We are not looking at short-term gains. We have a sustainable development agenda which means that we do not have to look at short-term gains. We are not of the view that if we do not do certain things, by next year, then we are doomed. We have long-term development plans which we are working on and have clearly identified areas of growth which will support the development of this country.

Madam Speaker, issues were raised regarding the lack of title to land. People from my ministry will consult with their counterparts in the Ministry of Lands to ensure that the Government looks at this issue so that government owned property is put on title.

Another issue which I wish to comment on very briefly is the funding to the Ministry of Health. The recommendation by the Committee for the Government to consider increasing funding to the ministry is welcome. I wish to inform this august House that, in the current 2010 Budget, the Government has provided an additional K200 billion from Government domestic resources to the ministry as compared to the previous year in order to compensate for the withdrawal of support by the donors.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This indicates the seriousness of this Government in ensuring that the negative impact of this withdrawal is minimised.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, I would also just like to briefly comment on local governance and the withdrawal of the crop levies.

The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has created a crop levy compensation window through which K8 billion has already been released. This money is given to councils through recurrent grants so as to compensate them for the revenue lost as a result of the abolition of the crop levies. This Government wants to ensure that there is no negative impact by the removal of this levy and has, therefore, made this grant to compensate for any shortcomings in that area.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the report of the Committee.

Madam, I am grateful that the Committee, in its report, brought out one issue which is quite topical in our country and that is the one relating to windfall tax.

Madam Speaker, in our country, today, we observe that there is one local publication which seems to be having its headlines in one direction. However, in the last two days, we have noticed that it is shifting. Are we saying that Government policies should be cast in concrete when we are seeing others shifting positions?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Basically, what we are saying is that there should be dynamism in this nation.

Interruptions

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, this Government does not believe in politics of populism. It is a Government which looks at issues as they are and will not play to the gallery. What do I mean? I mean that we are the players in that footfall pitch and the hon. Members on the other side are spectators.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: When you are a spectator, you perceive yourself to be a better player than the one who is on the pitch.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: However, it is only when you come to the realisation that the person on the pitch is scoring that you start giving credit where it is due. I would like to appeal to my colleagues on your left side, Madam Speaker, to learn one thing. If your wife dresses nicely, please, learn to pass a compliment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: When a meal is nicely prepared, learn to pass a compliment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: It is does not augur well that, every time, you should only be looking at the negative side of issues.

Madam Speaker, one hon. Member, in his debate, talked about the World Bank. I agree that the World Bank has done a lot in assisting us to develop our country. However, the hon. Member forgot to tell us what the role of the World Bank is when we sign development agreements and when these agreements are being developed. He has forgotten that we were told that mining was coming to its end and so we had to start looking at other economic activities for this country. Ten years down the line, when you look around now, the mining industry is still the major driver of our economy. So, I would advise my colleagues to look at issues holistically rather than being selective.

Madam, it appears one hon. Member has a short memory. One leader brought a letter that spoke against windfall tax here and laid it on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Sata!

Mr M. B. Mwale: However, I am surprised that one of his hon. Members is debating so much against his own leader.

Mr Mubika: Sata!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, if I may be more specific, some hon. Members on your left, …

Mr Kambwili: Bakakutamfya iwe!

Mr M. B. Mwale: … have talked so much against windfall tax. What has changed now which is making them talk about the reintroduction of windfall tax, and yet we listened to their presentation and that of the industries? We believe in consultation. That is how we abolished the windfall tax.

Mr Shawa: Hammer Mwale!

Mr M. B. Mwale: The very hon. Member is alleging that the Zambia Chamber of Mines is compromised, and yet he is a supplier to the mines, which are paying him. This, by implication, means that he is equally compromised.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, this Government has a long-term view of the mining industry. It does not believe in instant gratification.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is that hon. Member, who is debating so poorly and without points, in order to bring my business into his debate? I am the one who said that the chamber of mines is compromised. There is no way he can say he did not mention a name. Is he in order to draw my businesses into his lack of understanding of issues in the mining industry?

Madam Deputy Speaker: We must be careful as we go on with the business of the House. Normally, we do not debate ourselves in the House. However, when we over expose ourselves, again, we leave room for others to qualify and clarify the points that we have raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: No! No!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Therefore, it is important that you debate very soberly and bring out issues as you need other people to respond to them.

The hon. Minister may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that we are the players in the football pitch and we are looking at the economy in a holistic manner. Luanshya, for instance, has had its own problems because the mine has been closed twice. I would have expected the hon. Member for Roan to have been very grateful to this Government because, through its prudent policies, Luanshya Mine has been re-opened on the two occasions it has been closed down.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, his constituents have jobs and are secure because, through this responsible Government, there is a credible investor in Luanshya.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, ask the people of Mufulira, Nkana and Nchanga how the mining industry was performing ten years ago and they will tell you. We are where we are because of the good policies of this Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, one consideration that has been given about the mining industry is how competitive this sector is. This sector is operating in a global market in which it has to find a perfect fit. For example, America’s economy is now knowledge based. It has moved the agricultural industries to South America. There is even a joke with particular reference to the British industries where a piece of cloth was advertised as being British, and yet the inside read, “Made in Hong Kong.” This means that due to competitiveness, the agricultural industries have shifted from the high cost to low cost areas such as South America and the Far East countries.

Madam Speaker, this entails that even we need to have a very competitive industry. In our case, we are geographically disadvantaged because we are land locked and have no coastal line. That lowers our competitiveness because we incur high transportation costs when transporting our materials to the sea.

Madam Speaker, in the 1970s, we had reached a production high of 750, 000 tonnes of copper and a low of 250, 000 tonnes of copper in 2000. At the moment, we can boast of having a production level of above 650,000 tonnes and that is due to the good policies of this Government.

Recently, although some people would like to pretend that they are unaware, there was a debate in Australia about the super profit tax and we have seen that there has been a change of premiership.

Hon. Member: What is super profit tax?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, super profit tax is the equivalent of our windfall tax.

Interruptions

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, the current copper price, even when it is above US$6,000 per tone, will not be sustained. Copper prices are cyclic. We should not forget that, in 2008, copper prices were above US$8,000 per tone, but later dropped to below US$3,000. Owing to this, some mines were put under care and maintenance. Even the mines in Nkana and Mufulira, where some hon. Members come from, were threatened with closure and had it not been for the intervention of this hardworking Government, this would have happened.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, you cannot be selective when levying taxes in the mining industry. Some mines such as Lumwana and Kansanshi are low-cost operations and that is why, in 2008, Lumwana continued with its development operations because its operations are very near surfaced.

Madam Speaker, because of the good economic policies of this Government, Lumwana can mine copper with a grade as low as 0.8 per cent copper. Generally, on the Copperbelt, although one hon. Member is pretending not to know, our copper grade is above 4 per cent. However, in Lumwana, because of this hardworking Government’s policies, that mine has been developed at a copper grade of less than 1 per cent.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Madam Speaker, this copper price we are seeing today will not be there tomorrow. We need to have a long-term view of the industry. We should not forget that in those mining townships, our people were threatened with the loss of jobs and, as a responsible Government, we have to ensure that there is poverty alleviation through job creation. It is also our policy that the mining industry should continue to be vibrant and thereby assure the Government of revenues and the people of jobs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I want to support the second report of your Committee on Estimates because it is well written. The Committee only slightly fell short of defining the basis of a reasonable tax system and use that to test the various taxes that were put in motion on whether they responded to the principles of tax.

Madam Speaker, there are three basic principles of tax that any tax system must adhere to. Firstly, it must be dynamic in its reflection of the realities and challenges that the business environment faces because that it is critically important.

Secondly, Madam Speaker, a tax system must infer whilst at the same time achieve some level of equity. You cannot design a tax system that is going to follow transactions and that is why, for example, in the agriculture sector, we do not have a tax system that will tax you if you are growing soya differently from the one growing maize.

Madam Speaker, a tax system must reflect commonality in particular sectors and your Committee, on page 5, basically made that point. It recognised that within a sector, you can have a high and a low cost transaction and, therefore, you are not going to design a tax system that ignores the dynamics of the sector and follow the transaction. That is why this Government has designed a tax system that is oblivious of transaction, but focuses on the sector.

Madam Speaker, thirdly, a tax system must be that which drives growth, investment and used as a basis for capitalisation and, like my brother said, for creating jobs. That is the necessary dynamism required in the economy for us to prosper.

Madam Speaker, those are the three basic principles of tax and so whether examining windfall tax or any other tax, indeed, there is a need to ask whether the taxes reflect the basic principles of a tax system. Your Committee, obviously, fell short in that assessment.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, on the issue of dynamism, when the Government changed the tax regime because of the global crunch, it was to preserve the economic fabric of the country, particularly in the mining industry. The Government listens. These dynamisms have not significantly shifted since 2008 because we have seen, even in the developed world, for example, in the United Kingdom (UK), only a few weeks ago, that they went further to impose additional taxes on the basis that the dynamics of the crisis have not left us. So, we cannot begin to tinker around with the tax regime following a valley and hill type of transaction.

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

Mr Mutati: You must have a tax system that is patient and is going to grow the economy.

Mr Kambwili: On a waste asset?

Interruptions

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, you must have a tax system that is patient and does not respond to valleys and hills. That is why any tax system, which an investor is going to depend upon, must have, in its mechanism, some level of patience.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Question!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, even when the tax system in place is being questioned, your Committee itself has said, on page 7 of its report, that there is no need to have an unpredictable tax system. So, by having a tax system that is unpredictable, the Government is responding to the issues raised by your Committee.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mutati: That is what the Committee is basically recommending on page 7.

Mr Kambwili: ikala naiwe waonaika naiwe.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we, as a Government are going to listen, but, in doing so, we have to ensure that our tax system basically responds to the basic principles of tax which are dynamism, fairness and equity and driving investment because these principles are the basis of a rational tax system. I do commend your Committee and acknowledge that, yes, its job was well done, but it needs to reflect further on those principles.

Madam Speaker, the second point is the issue of Kasaba Bay that was raised by the hon. Member for Chimbamilonga. I think the point he was trying to make and emphasise was that the Budget for 2010 presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning had a critical theme which was, “Enhancing Growth Through Diversification and Competitiveness.” Now, in diversification, you need to choose sectors that are going to live beyond mining, such as tourism. That is why, as part of the diversification policy, the Government opened up Kasaba Bay.

Madam Speaker, the approval of over K220 billion by this House in infrastructure is in response to the second part of the theme which is competitiveness. For any investor to place investment in Kasaba Bay, there is a need to find infrastructure that is ready to enhance investment. So, investors’ competitiveness will be assisted by finding in place an airport, power and a road system.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Those are the ingredients of competitiveness and that is what my brother was trying to emphasise. Development must be spread out and it must also touch the rural areas …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: … and this is in response to the theme of the 2010 Budget. So, my brother did a good job and, obviously, he commended the Committee for the report on the tour which exposed it to the beautiful sands and lovely hills of Kasaba Bay. Hopefully, that exposure will motivate some of the Committee members to try and invest in the Kasaba Bay area because the Government has created a platform that will assist competitiveness.

Hon. Opposition Member: How about Lunte?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, Lunte is within the vicinity and reach of Kasaba Bay and we are going to enjoy the scenery there.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: We are also taking advantage of the proximity of Lunte to provide labour in Kasaba Bay, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: … which is part of job creation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, these are critical things and evidence that diversity assists even …

Dr Machungwa: Even as an hon. Member of Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: …some of the challenged constituencies. When you have an anchor industry, like the major hotel development that was seen in Livingstone, you have other industries tugging along and, in turn, creating a lot of jobs. This is what is going to happen in Kasaba Bay. It will be a platform that is going to create a lot of jobs not only for Lunte, but for the Northern Province and Zambia in general. This is the policy direction of your Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to make brief remarks on the second report of the Committee on Estimates. Allow me to start by thanking your Committee for a commendable job that it has done in producing the report under the able stewardship of its Chairperson, Member for Bweengwa, Hon. Hamududu. I will restrict my brief remarks to issues surrounding the tax regime.

Madam Speaker, I agree with your Committee’s observation that there is a need to have a stable and predictable tax regime not only for the mining industry, but for the whole economy which will provide a fair return on national development resources to the Treasury and at the same time provide a conducive environment for business and innovation to flourish. Simultaneously, it is also true that the cost of doing business in the country must be brought down to the maximum benefit of our people.

Madam Speaker, the assertion by your Committee that incentives only accrue to the mining sector is not entirely correct. Any investor, whether foreign or local, seeking to do business in a priority area as classified under the Zambia Development Agency Act is entitled to apply for incentives. There are businesses across the full spectrum of our country that enjoy these incentives and have helped move our economy forward by leaps and bounds since the start of this decade.

Madam Speaker, the Government, in 2007, amended the tax regime for the mining sector. At that time, the international price of copper was low and mining companies were offered tax concessions in order to make their projects viable. As prices increased, there was a need to review the concessions in order to ensure that the nation benefited from the extraction of these valuable resources.

Madam Speaker, at the same time, because of the stability clauses in the development agreements, the Government was forced to renegotiate contracts with mining companies so that there was mutual consent on the new tax regime. At that point, the understanding was that the Government would proceed to negotiate with the mining companies on the basis of the legislation of 2007. The negotiating team that was constituted, therefore, decided that the 2007 regime be strengthened by addressing certain weaknesses. These were addressed in 2008 by way of including additional elements to the fiscal regime and also putting in place a new regulatory framework. This included, among others, an increase in the corporate tax rate, mineral royalty rate and the introduction of windfall tax that would be triggered by the international copper price.

In 2009, Zambia, an innocent bystander in the global arena, was hit by the worst crisis to hit the global economy since the great depression. In particular, copper prices had fallen sharply and the outlook at the time for a global economy recovery was weak.

As a result, we were compelled to take immediate and decisive remedial action to protect the mines and ensure that they continued to be viable in the face of a weak global market.

Madam, the most controversial of all the amendments carried out by the mining tax regime, in 2009, was the revocation of the windfall tax and this appears to be the main area of concern expressed by your Committee. Zambia’s mining tax regime is premised mainly on two principles, which are that our people should get a fair return from their mineral resources and that the mining sector should continue to remain vibrant and viable for future investment.

It became apparent during the implementation of the 2008 tax regime that it was both punitive to the mining companies and a disincentive to investment. The amendment undertaken, in 2009, in this regard, ensured that the tax system remained stable and robust and was to remain so irrespective of the operating costs of mines and international copper price movements.

Madam Speaker, the 2008 fiscal regime for the mining sector not only affected the ongoing mining operations, particularly in high cost mines, but also threatened large new investments and expansion programmes. For example, marginal tax rates, in some instances, were as high as 107.1 per cent. In simple terms, this meant that, at certain levels of international prices, for every US$1 in additional revenues received, companies were faced with a tax of US$1.07. Clearly, this created a significant disincentive to produce at higher prices and capitalise on international copper demand. As a result, the mining companies as well as the Zambian people would have suffered. In addition, a number of companies which had plans to undertake large medium-term investments withheld their plans while other new investors abandoned their plans to invest in Zambia.

Further, the formulation of the windfall tax did not take into account the cost structure of different mines and, therefore, lacked the basic tax principle of equity. Given that we have two types of mines in Zambia, the open pit and underground, the design of the windfall tax meant that the tax system was more punitive to the high-cost underground mines than it was to the low-cost open pit mines. Therefore, taking into account the cost structures of different mining companies was cardinal for purposes of equity and fairness in tax treatment. However, once the cost structure was taken into account in designing windfall tax, it revealed that there was a very thin line between the variable profit tax and windfall tax. This is the reason that led to the Government’s decision to do away with windfall tax and remain with the variable profit tax. These changes were not introduced out of a whim, but out of clear and logical necessity. Had the Government not taken those measures, at the time, we would not be debating the windfall tax, today, but the viability of the mining sector in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in terms of capacity building, we have recognised the fact that auditing of multi-national corporations requires special skills. Therefore, we have created a designated unit, in the ZRA, that will deal with the taxation of the mining companies. We have sought assistance from our co-operating partners, who have already started training officers. In this regard. I wish to assure the House that the Government will train the officers to the highest level in order to achieve excellence in this regard.

Madam Speaker, as regards non-compliance with windfall tax, it is true that some companies did not comply with the provisions of the Income Tax Act when windfall tax was due and payable. The Government has taken steps to ensure that the amounts due are paid to the Treasury.

Madam, let me conclude my remarks by stating that the challenges in implementing the current mining tax regime are real and there is a need for continued dialogue among stakeholders. What is also clear is that the historical development agreement regime was unfair and unbalanced as it did not give the nation a fair share of its resources. While the Government is committed to providing a stable and conducive environment for investment in the mining sector, it is equally important that the Zambian people receive a fair share of a natural resource that belongs to them. Simultaneously, as the Government continues to engage with mining companies to resolve outstanding issues, it will continue to enhance the administrative capacity at ZRA to enforce compliance with the mining tax regime and get from the mining companies whatever rightly belongs to the Zambian people under the law.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate on this Motion and support the adoption of the report of your Committee on Estimates.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwansa left his microphone on.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Please, switch your microphone off.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Speaker, without wasting much time, I want to say that I am grateful to you for giving us enough time to debate this Motion. I am also grateful that over ten hon. Members have actually contributed to the debate on this Motion.

Madam Speaker, I want to wind up by saying that from the hon. Members’ debate on this Motion, it is very clear that the issue of optimal taxation on the mines still remains an unfinished business. There is still a need to arrive at national consensus on the taxation of mines. I would, therefore, urge the Government to realise that it is not a weakness to concede to suggestions on national matters, but a sign of strength. I think we must rise to that challenge as leaders. The issue of mining taxation is so important that there should be no politics involved. This is an important matter on which there must be national consensus across the political divide. No one should seem to take credit for the decisions on this issue because it is important for us and our future generation. So, I urge hon. Government Members not to give this issue a deaf ear, but see how we can reach national consensus. I am really appealing to their conscience.

Madam, may I mention to my colleague, Hon. Sikazwe, that, indeed, we enjoyed ourselves around Lake Tanganyika and we played volleyball, after working hours of course. There are very nice beaches there. We have taken note of what he has said, but I would like to say that we saw, with our own naked eyes, the Nsumbu and Kasaba Bay and Lake Tanganyika, that he talked about in this House and I think he was right throughout his debates. However, the findings we have in this report are from many stakeholders, including Government officials and the ECZ, unlike the few people he mentioned.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I wish to thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Questions put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Questions put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1755 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 15th July, 2010.

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