DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 30th July, 2010

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
__________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 3rd August, 2010, the Business of House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2007) Bill. Then the House will consider any other Business that may have been presented before it earlier.

On Wednesday, 4th August, 2010, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will debate Private Member’s Motions, if the will be any. Then the House will deal with the Second Reading Stages of the following Bills.

    (i)    Animal Health Bill;

    (ii)    Animal Identification Bill;

    (iii)    Cattle Cleansing (Repeal) Bill;

    (iv)    Tsetse Control (Repeal) Bill;

    (v)    Cattle Slaughter (Control) Bill;

    (vi)    Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill.

Thereafter, the House will deal with any other Business that may already have been presented before it.

On Thursday, 5th August, 2010, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if the will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider the Second Reading Stage of the National Prosecution Authority Bill. Then the House will consider various stages of Bills already before it.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 6th August, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Parliamentary Select Committee Report on the Presidential Appointment of the Solicitor-General for the Republic of Zambia. Then the House will consider the Fifth Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts for the Financial Year ended 31st December, 2008.

Madam Speaker, it is my intention on this day to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom, and thereafter, adjourn sine die.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I would like to know whether the Vice-President has recorded a bumper harvest on his farm. I saw a picture of him at his farm. 

Laughter

Mr Mooya: I would like to know if he will have a bumper harvest because I will have a bumper harvest.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Unfortunately, we do not debate ourselves.

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, global research has disclosed that the use of asbestos for roofing purposes has the potential to cause cancer. I would like to know what the Government has in place to discourage people from using asbestos to roof their houses.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member has been following a certain item on the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) related to his question. It is something that we should research on and decide whether there are harmful effects from the use of asbestos. However, I know that the matter is still debatable. Many developing countries, including Zambia, are still using asbestos widely.  

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Kapata (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President, what the Government’s stand is on the Media Council of Zambia.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, we are all concerned about the standard of journalism in this country. There are some media houses which do not adhere to ethics. In trying to regulate the media, we should research on what is happening in other countries and decide whether we ought to introduce a statutory or voluntary media council. We must also consult the media fraternity, as we have been doing. 

In Zambia, if the media has to be regulated, it should regulate itself whether the regulation is statutory or voluntary. Like other professions, in this House, in almost every sitting, legislation is brought to regulate professions. You will notice that lawyers, engineers and medical practitioners are regulated.  Why can the media not be regulated if it is a profession? 

Madam Speaker, the Government’s position is that the media should be regulated. 

Dr Mwansa: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The best way of regulating the media is by statute. However, even if a statute is introduced through this House, the Media Council of Zambia will be composed of representatives from the media. The media itself should guide us, as a nation, on whom they want to sit on the Media Council of Zambia. It is up to them to make suggestions. Recently, the media fraternity held a consultative meeting in Chisamba and came up with the Fringila Consensus document which we have been reading. If there will be a need for any statutory regulation, we will borrow heavily from the Fringila Consensus document. We shall consult the media extensively when coming up with any statute which will regulate the media.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the Vice-President why the Chief Executive Officer of Maamba Collieries from Navabarat has resigned, barely for four months after being appointed and has since left the country. Why has this country not been informed of such a resignation, considering the sensitive nature of Maamba Collieries?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, that is a private company and this House does not discuss private companies. The hon. Member may have a family company and then someone will ask a question about it in this House and we will start discussing it. I do not think that is in accordance with the practice and procedure of this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear, lawyer!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, the FRA has bought 12,000 x 50 kg bags of maize at each satellite depot and has since reached its target. As a result, there is a temporary closure because the FRA has reached its target. I would like to know when the Government will increase the number of bags so that farmers can sell more maize to the FRA.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, this is a matter on which I need to make more enquiries and research on. Last week or the week before, during the Vice-President’s Question Time, I talked about this same issue. This is the more reason we should be proud of this bumper harvest and purchase as much maize as possible. Where the FRA may have some limitations, the private sector should come in and purchase the maize so that we can give more incentives to our farmers. As you know, inputs are already being distributed and farmers will be motivated to grow more crops if they manage to sell their current produce. We hope that, with the Government’s policies in place, even next year, we are going to have another bumper harvest.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, according the United Nations General Assembly Website, which people can quote without fear of being reprimanded, on Wednesday, 28th July, 2010, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a very memorable resolution calling upon States, parties and international organisations to provide financial resources, build capacity and transfer technology, particularly to developing countries in scaling up efforts to provide safe clean drinking water and access to basic sanitation. Madam, the assembly arrived at this resolution …

 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

This is not time to debate, hon. Member. A little background can be accepted, but you cannot go on.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I would like to find out why, out of all the African countries that ratified and voted in favour of this important resolution, Zambia decided to abstain and, therefore, jeopardising its chances of accessing financial resources from international organisations to provide safe drinking water to the population of this country. Can the Vice-President, please, explain why Zambia abstained?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I must admit that I have been taken by surprise. We must be advised on that particular resolution. We need to get more information on it. It is a very important resolution because issues of water and sanitation are very important to this country. Therefore, I need to find out whether what the hon. Member has said, is indeed, correct so …

Hon. Opposition Members: It is correct!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … that I can give more information.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

 The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I am not able to give more information at the moment because this is not officially before us.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, could His Honour the Vice-President inform the House when the Government of the Republic of Zambia is going to ratify regional instruments on river basin agreements. Out of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, ten have ratified such agreements, but it appears Zambia is among the four that have not because of the 1950 water agreement.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware, 40 per cent of the water resources in the SADC region are in Zambia. Therefore, we have to be very careful and make more consultations as we sign or ratify some of these instruments. I know that this matter is under consideration, but we want to use our water resources prudently. Of course, there must be equitable use of these water resources. I am aware that we have been consulting on that particular matter. As soon as a decision is reached, Zambia will further make a decision on whether to sign or ratify the protocols which are being referring to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Madam Speaker, I feel ashamed to be part of this Government because it is letting our people die due to lack of medicines. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why this Government has allowed a medical officer, who is a Councilor in Kapiri-Mposhi Constituency to unnecessarily create a shortage of drugs at a clinic he is operating from. The drugs are only found at his private clinic. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member should provide more details and the particulars of that particular medical practitioner she is referring to. If she has all the details, she can report that matter to the police. I cannot conduct investigations without detailed information. I have no knowledge whatsoever of what she is talking about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, is the Vice-President aware of the fact that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is falling far short of its target of registering new voters. It was aiming for 2,500,000 and, so far, has achieved about 10 per cent of that level. What plans does he have to ensure that we have one vote from one man or to get us closer to such a situation?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the registration of voters is on going as it will go up to the end of September. The hon. Member should sensitise people, especially those who have reached eighteen, to go and register as voters. The ECZ is trying its best to register voters throughout Zambia. Therefore, the registration exercise is on course and there is still a lot of time. After December, the ECZ will look at the statistics, conduct a re-evaluation and then consider whether to continue until December. In this regard, there is still time for registration. We need to register as many voters as possible, especially in rural areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, all the 150 constituencies of this country require to be developed, regardless of who represents them here in Parliament. I want to know what was going on in the head of His Honour the Vice-President last week when …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Member will be very civil in the choice of words. 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I take that back. I want to know what His Honour the Vice-President was thinking when he said, in Luena, that if the people of that constituency do not vote for a Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD0 candidate, they will not see development as they have seen in the neighbouring Nalikwanda Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, that is a very important question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I was talking about the advantages of voting for the MMD …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … or the party in power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice:  What I was saying is that if you elect an hon. Member of Parliament from the Ruling Party, he has a direct link with the Vice-President, …

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: President, hon. Ministers and the entire Government machinery. Therefore, chances of development going to such areas are very high. In fact, I saw the hon. Member of Parliament on television the day before yesterday and he was praising the Government for taking development to his area. What we are doing, to provide development …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

No point of order. He is responding to the question you asked.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is one of the members who are very satisfied with the performance of this Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … because of what we are doing in Mazabuka. He has even showered accolades on this Government before for having foresight and developing the country equitably. We shall develop the entire country without discrimination but, of course, there are advantages in voting for MMD hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, what system or mechanism has this Government put in place to ensure that the civil servants and miners access soft loans apart from the complicated Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) loans and the ones from the banks which attract high interest rates.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member knows that, in this liberalised and conducive environment, financial institutions are, in fact, going to the public to entice them to borrow money because we have created an enabling environment where loans are available. Civil servants and mine workers are free to get loans from anywhere. Loans are available from the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) and various financial institutions. I am surprised that the hon. Member is not aware of this situation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, arising from the answer that has been given by the Vice-President, I would like to find out whether it is the policy of the Government to treat positively the constituencies that are managed by MMD hon. Members of Parliament.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I am surprised with that kind of question. We have taken so much development to the Southern Province, …

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … notwithstanding the fact that we have hon. Members of Parliament like Hon. Mwiimbu who are hostile …

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … to the Government. You ask Hon. Chizhyuka who has been on television praising this Government.

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, yesterday, even Hon. Nkombo was on television with Chief Mwanachingwala …

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … praising this Government for what it has done in the Southern Province. In fact, the Southern Province has been receiving the lion’s share, notwithstanding the fact that it is a province under hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition.  However, it is not a stronghold anymore because …

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … we are doing our best, as a party, to make inroads into the area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Madam Speaker, could His Honour the Vice-President confirm whether the women empowerment programmes under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services are a good policy for this country? 

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I think that, today, hon. Members are asking very friendly questions.

Laughter 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The women empowerment fund was introduced by this august House … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … through an allocation of K5 billion. 

We also have this particular programme in the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development. Both the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services were allocated K5 billion each. 

Madam Speaker, we also have the Youth Empowerment Fund …

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … which the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development will be launching in Kitwe tomorrow.  
Madam Speaker, these funds are there to benefit our mothers and youths, without any discrimination. We should encourage our mothers in various constituencies to come up with clubs because the funds are accessible. The Ministry of Gender and Women in Development will come up with projects and we will fund them. As a matter of fact, I know that the hon. Minister will be issuing a ministerial statement on how beneficial these funds and programmes are to the womenfolk. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Government will decentralise the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund so that people in rural areas can also have easy access to it.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I think that particular fund, to some extent, has already been decentralised.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I know that, with the current budget allocations, each province was given K10billion to distribute equitably to all the districts and 40 per cent was to be reserved for women and vulnerable groups. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, I would like further clarification from His Honour the Vice-President who is also Minister of Justice on an important issue.

In other countries, when a president denies development to the people based on their voting pattern or decisions, that president can be impeached. I would like to know whether, in the Zambian context, the Republican President, an hon. Minister or the Vice-President can utter statements to the effect that people can be denied development based on the way they vote without facing the consequences of breaching the Constitution? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the entire budget of this country is allocated by this House, covering all the areas of this country in terms of development. 

The position, therefore, is that the entire country is being developed equitably. As I said, there are advantages in voting for the Ruling Party. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, this is a fact.  

For those of you who do not know, the Cabinet sits at one big table chaired by the President. All the hon. Ministers …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Members will listen to the responses after they have asked questions. Otherwise, what will be the purpose of talking from both sides? We should not reduce the standards of this House. Let us ask and allow His Honour the Vice-President …

Interruptions

 Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

His Honour the Vice-President may continue. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, it is a fact that, as an elected Government, we are the ones who design the budget, allocate resources and bring it here for approval. It is also a fact that the Government is the one in charge of the national purse. However, this is not to say that the areas under the control of hon. Members from the Opposition are not being developed. I think that I have proved, beyond reasonable doubt, that the Southern Province, for instance, is receiving the lion’s share of Government’s development efforts. 

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

609. Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when electricity power supply would be increased to meet the growing demand in Luapula Province.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Imasiku): Madam Speaker, the Government is facilitating the implementation of measures aimed at increasing the electricity supply to Luapula Province. This will include the short and medium-term measures aimed at rehabilitating and upgrading the existing Musonda Falls Power Station.

 To start the process of implementing the short and medium-term measures, the Government, through the Zambia Electricity Supply (ZESCO) Limited has engaged a consultant, Mr Scott Wilson, to determine the need for rehabilitating and upgrading the power station which currently operates below the designed capacity. As a result, Mr Scott Wilson will conduct feasibility studies to assess the requirements. 

Madam Speaker, regarding the long-term measures, the Government is sourcing for funds to extend the 397 km/330 kilovolts transmission line from Pensulo Substation in Serenje to Kasama. When the transmission line is developed, it will complement efforts by the public-private partnership (PPP) that has expressed interest in pulling power into Luapula Province from Luano.

Madam Speaker, in addition, plans are underway to develop the Kalungwishi Hydro Power Station Project which has already been awarded to a private firm after a tender was floated to the general public. Currently, the Government is concluding negotiations for an implementation agreement with the firm. When these projects are completed, the current power problem caused by the increased demand in Luapula Province will abate.  

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chitika-Mulobeka: Madam Speaker, the investment opportunities in Luapula Province have been hindered by many factors, including lack of adequate energy.

Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm whether this sad situation of underdevelopment in the province will continue with such Government assurances time and again.

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, according to my answer, this Government is doing everything possible to make sure that the supply of power to Luapula is increased. A number of lines were connected a few days ago. When the Musonda Falls and the line from Pensulo, which is in Luapula, is increased from 66 KV to about 330 KV, power supply will be increased. We, as a Government, are aware of the power situation in Luapula.

Madam Speaker, if you looked at the Rural Electricity Plan Booklet, you would realise that a plan for Luapula has also been catered for. Therefore, we hope to develop power supply to Luapula, including the other parts of the country. The Government is making efforts to make sure that the Kariba North Bank and Lower Kafue Gorge Power Station are improved and Itezhi-tezhi is launched.

Madam Speaker, if all the power supply is enhanced, the situation in Luapula Province will be improved like in other parts of the country.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development tell the House if the programme of tapping electricity from Chingola into Luapula, like the House was assured, is feasible? If it is, how far has the Government gone with its implementation?

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Madam Speaker, I indicated, in this House, that a private sector developer had expressed interest in constructing a 330KV line from Chingola to Mansa in Luapula. This line will carry power to supply and complement the efforts which the hon. Deputy Minister referred to earlier.

Madam Speaker, because the developer wrote to the Government expressing interest, it has authorised the developer to proceed with the project.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister talked about extending the grid from Pensulo to Kasama and then Luapula. Would it not be economical to extend the grid from Pensulo directly to Luapula because it is much nearer than going all the way to Kasama and back to Luapula?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, currently, there are plans to upgrade the 66 KV line from Pensulo to Kasama to 400 KV and link it up with the line that will go to Tanzania and Kenya. It is on this basis that, once this line has been upgraded, power from Kasama can also be upgraded to Mansa and this is what the hon. Deputy Minister made reference to.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Madam Speaker, up rating power generating machinery is happening elsewhere. Is it not prudent for the hon. Minister to up rate the capacity at the Musonda Falls from two to five which may only take about six months so that, at least, there can be an increase in power supply to the Luapula Province.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister made reference to the fact that ZESCO has engaged Mr Scott Wilson to undertake feasibility studies to determine how much power should be up rated at the Musonda Falls. While this is being done as a short term-term measure, the Government is aware, as the hon. Member for Kawambwa made reference to, of the many opportunities in Luapula Province. However, up rating or rehabilitating the power station at Musonda Falls will not result into the required power supply which can drive economic development in Luapula. 

Madam Speaker, it is for this reason that the Government has embarked on short-term measures such as up rating the power station and long-term measures such as building lines from the Copperbelt and constructing the power station at Kalungwishi. These measures can then produce the required amount of power which can drive economic development in Luapula Province.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to finally catch your eye.

Madam Speaker, the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism and the Nation at large was assured that the Itezhi-tezhi Project would kick off by mid-this year. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when, exactly, this will take place as a way of boosting power supply throughout the country and Luapula, in particular?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the Chairperson of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism has made reference to the fact that, when he toured Itezhi-tezhi, he was assured that the project would take off. Indeed, the Government is making efforts to ensure that the project takes off. 

Madam Speaker, efforts are being made to resolve issues, which are still outstanding, such as the power purchase agreement between the company and ZESCO for the project to take off. Among other outstanding issues is the investment promotion and protection agreement. Once all these issues have been resolved, the project is going to commence. As a Government, we have been assured by TATA, a partner of ZESCO, that once it receives all the documents from ZESCO, it is going to do its part of the equity to kick start the project.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

MULTI-FACILITY ECONOMIC ZONES

610. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)    how much money the Government had borrowed from foreign countries towards the development of Multi-facility Economic Zones (MFEZ) at the Lusaka International Airport and Lusaka South; and

(b)    how many hectares of land had been set aside for the development of the above zones.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, the Government has not borrowed any funds to develop the MFEZ and industrial parks.

The MFEZ and industrial parks that the Government is promoting are all private sector- driven except the Lusaka South MFEZ.

The development of the Lusaka Sub-Zone, which is an extension of the Chambishi MFEZ, is being undertaken by a privately-owned company, China Non-Ferrous Metals Corporation of China.

As for the Lusaka South MFEZ, which is public-sector driven, the Government has been funding this project from its own resources. A total of K50 billion has, so far, been funded which is being utilised for the construction of access and internal roads within the Lusaka South MFEZ. Works on the 2.4 km access road are currently underway.

Madam Speaker, a total of 2,100 hectares was degazetted from Forest Reserve No. 26 for the development of the Lusaka South MFEZ, whereas the Lusaka Sub-Zone will be developed on a 5.2 square kilometres, which is a 520 hectare piece of land.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, initially, the Government had taken the stance that the development of MFEZs would be done by foreign investors and the private sector within the country. Why has it put in K50 billion in their development?

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, as has been mentioned, most of the MFEZs that are being developed are private-sector driven. However, there has been a lot of interest from different actors who would like to participate in this particular programme. As a result, the Government found it fit to identify land where access roads were going to be created and ensure that the basic facilities are available so that Zambians and foreign companies that are interested can actually find these facilities already in place to ensure that this comes into fruition.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, how far has the ministry gone in planning and programming the implementation of the MFEZ in Mansa as pronounced by the late President Mwanawasa, SC. when he laid the foundation stone for the construction of the Chembe Bridge?

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, at the moment, a team from the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) is in Chembe doing precisely what the hon. Member has asked about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, these facilities that are being developed will require a good transportation system to support them. Since it is almost impossible to get around Lusaka these days because of the congestion, how is the ministry thinking of fitting these plans into the current situation where one can hardly move?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, one of the MFEZs in Lusaka is located towards the airport and the other one is off Leopards Hill Road. It is precisely for the reason of decongesting the traffic that these locations were chosen.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______{mospagebreak}

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE COPYRIGHT AND PERFORMANCE RIGHTS (Amendment) BILL

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

The amendment to the Bill is in line with the happenings world over on issues concerning intellectual property. The Bill, therefore, seeks to protect intellectual property in general and copyright in particular and ensure that it conforms to international norms and best practices.

Madam Speaker, the Copyright and Performance Rights Act was last amended in 1994, meaning that this piece of legislation has become irrelevant due to the fast changing technology. Hon. Members of the House will attest to the fact that, due to the technological advancements, the levels of piracy have not only increased, but counterfeits have also become more sophisticated. This, therefore, requires an up-to-date law to deal with such infringement cases. These infringement cases are not only confined to audio and video products, but also extend to anything that is copyrightable.

Madam, I wish to stress that the Act has a lot of loopholes which some operators have identified and are busy exploiting. The weak legislation governing copyright and related rights has a negative effect on the growth of the economy, as it has made it possible for people to engage in piracy and counterfeiting at a large scale, leading to loss of revenue by the Government and also robbing artists of their income.

Madam Speaker, the Copyright and Performance Rights Amendment Bill that I am presenting today has also taken into account the challenges that law enforcement officers face in enforcing the law on copyright and related rights. Among the challenges officers face is how to distinguish an original from a pirated or counterfeited product.

It is for this reason, hon. Members, that the Bill seeks to introduce holograms on all audio and video products sold in Zambia. The hologram is a three dimensional security sticker that is affixed on audio and video products before they enter the market.

The hologram is expected to greatly reduce incidences of piracy and counterfeits in Zambia. This will not only benefit the artists, but also ensure that the Government collects the much-needed revenue from the creative industry. You may wish to know that, currently, it is difficult for the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to know how much it should collect from the creative industry because there are no mechanisms for monitoring how many Digital Versatile Discs (DVDs) are produced and released on the market.

Madam Speaker, the hologram will make it possible for the ZRA to know how many DVDs or Compact Discs (CDs) are produced by knowing the number of holograms sold which should also correspond to the number of DVDs produced. The hologram will also be a way of fighting piracy, as only genuine and original audio and video products will be affixed with this sticker.

Further, the hologram will make it easy for law enforcement officers to distinguish between an original and a pirated audio or video product, as those without it will be considered fake products.

Madam, the Bill has revised the court of jurisdiction for copyright infringement matters. The current Act refers to the court as the High Court. This has been a hindrance to speedy disposal of copyright infringement cases. High courts, as we all see and know, are usually congested and cases take long to be disposed of. It is, therefore, hoped that the revision of the Act to include other courts will speed up the disposal of such cases.

Madam Speaker, the Bill has also revised the rank of police officers to handle cases of copyright infringement cases. Previously, it was only police officers above the rank of inspector who could deal with such cases, but this has now been broadened to include other officers such as constables. Our artists cannot be in all parts of the country to police the use of their works. The current Act only recognises the owner or his or her representative to complain on their behalf for the police to institute an action for infringement. The Bill has, therefore, included the office of the Attorney-General to be the copyright holder for purposes of prosecution of an offence under this Act.

Madam Speaker, I mentioned earlier that the Act does not conform to international best practices. Zambia is a signatory to a number of conventions and treaties concerning copyrights. It is, therefore, befitting that the Bill is in conformity with them. My ministry believes that these measures will not only help us fight this menace of piracy, but also help property rights owners to be inspired and create more works which will, in more ways than none, increase the confidence of investors in this sector. I, therefore, urge the hon. Members of this august House to support this amendment.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Copyright and Performance Rights (Amendment) Bill No. 25 of 2010, referred to on 13th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 29th July, 2010.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I would like to indicate that your Committee and the stakeholders it interacted with on this amendment Bill are in support of it. They are cognisant of the fact that education and entertainment are important contributors to the development of the nation, as they contribute to poverty reduction through job creation. It is, therefore, important that literary works, music and artistic works are protected from piracy. The amendment of the Copyright and Performance Act, therefore, could not have come at a better time.

Your Committee and the stakeholders, particularly commend the Government for the amendment of Section 33, which restricted the seizure of infringing items to the rank of inspector. Allowing all police officers to be arresting officers will make police presence on the streets possible, as constables or officers with other ranks will not have to look for an inspector to make an arrest.

Further, your Committee commends the Government for extending the jurisdiction of the court on matters of copyright infringement to include the Subordinate Court instead of restricting it to the High Court, as is provided in the principal Act. This will increase the pace at which cases are disposed of. Notwithstanding the accolades from stakeholders concerning this Bill, a few concerns have been raised. These relate to the administration and custodianship of the hologram which is placed in the hands of the registrar. It was the view of the stakeholders that placing this responsibility in the hands of a Government appointee will render the exercise open to bias and possible abuse. Further, it could be used as a tool to get at “politically incorrect” artists. It is, therefore, necessary that a neutral organisation, such as the Zambia Music Copyright Protection Society (ZAMCOPS) or the Zambia Bureau of Standards be the custodian of the hologram.

Further, concern was raised on the proposed Section 28(1) (P) which states that:

“Any person who, during the subsistence of copyright in a work, synchronises music and visual works without the consent of the copyright owner; unless the person satisfies the court that the person had acted in good faith and had no reasonable grounds for supposing that copyright would or might thereby be infringed, commits an offence and is liable upon conviction.”

 Your Committee is of the view that this seems to suggest that ignorance is a defence. It, therefore, fears that this might be used by unscrupulous people to escape conviction. In this regard, your Committee recommends that this section be revised to seal all loopholes.

Finally, Madam Speaker, allow me to thank you for giving your Committee the opportunity to scrutinise this Bill and thank all the witnesses who appeared before it. My thanks also go to the Office of the Clerk for the support rendered to your Committee.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services for this well-thought-out Bill.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, we talked about boxers and wrestlers who end up destitute. We have had good musicians in this country who end up destitute because, after producing good music, instead of earning money from their works, other people called pirates benefit from their products. This has resulted in a lot of musicians who, despite producing popular songs, not reaping where they sowed.

Madam Speaker, this piece of legislation has come at the right time because, at the moment, a lot of artistes have invested in music. Many young people are doing very well in this industry and, with this Bill in place, most of the budding artistes will not be reckoned with. In developed countries and other places where such legislation has been put in place, the artistes contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP). In Sweden, the ABBA music group was second to Volvo in contribution to the GDP, an indication that there is a big potential in the industry. 

Madam Speaker, I support the Bill because it will bear fruit for the country. At present, we have artistes such as JK, the Sakala Brothers and others who are cultural ambassadors for the country. This means we can export our music and, therefore, I support this Bill. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I thank the Chairperson of the Committee, Hon. Kapeya, for supporting this Bill. 

On the concerns raised regarding the use of the hologram as a political tool and not professionally, I wish to assure the House that the hologram will be used in a completely professional manner. The concern raised about improving and unsealing the loopholes, will be dealt with. 

I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, Hon. Shakafuswa, and the entire House for supporting the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 3rd August, 2010.

THE INDEPENDENT BROADCASTING AUTHORITY (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, in tabling the Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2010, allow me to restate its objectives which are to:

(a)    revise the provisions dealing with licensing;

(b)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, this august House will agree with me that this Bill is long overdue. We have been inundated by questions on why the Bill has taken long. However, I wish to reassure the hon. Members of this House and the public at large, that the reasons for our delay are justified in that we needed to bring before this august House a carefully thought-out Bill that will not only provide for the regulation of the broadcasting sector, but also take into consideration the diversity of the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, despite the fact that the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act, 2002 has been partly operational, the absence of a board has greatly affected the operations of this sector for over ten years now. The protracted court process that took almost three years added to this delay. Following the Supreme Court ruling of 2007 on the powers of appointment of the board resting with the Minister, the Government endeavoured to amend the Act in order to take care of the latest technological advancements and streamline the appointment processes. With the current amendment, the powers to appoint the board shall rest solely with the Minister.

In the industry and, indeed, the information and communications technology world in general, the delay in operationalising the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) meant that the ministry had to work through a technical committee of experts. To date, we have forty-six broadcasting stations countrywide, out of which thirty-nine are radio stations and seven are television stations.

Madam Speaker, the need for regulation does not need to be emphasised. In the 1990s, there were waves of liberalising the media that have brought unprecedented changes in the communications sector. The rapid technological advances, which followed, meant that, without proper regulation, the sector is going to be chaotic. With new players coming in at every turn, regulation is needed not only to maintain order in the field, but also facilitate entry by removing barriers to competition; ensuring fair business practices and protecting the rights and needs of consumers. The amendment to the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act will, therefore, bring a systematic and legal process for the granting, renewing, suspension and/or cancelling of licenses for broadcasting services in an open and transparent manner. It will also enforce compliance to broadcasting standards.

Mr Speaker, the amendment to this Act is aimed at promoting the media’s role as enablers of free speech that is in line with declarations such as the African Charter on Broadcasting, which states:

 “the legal framework for broadcasting should include a clear statement of the principles underpinning broadcast regulation, including promoting respect for freedom of expression, diversity and the free flow of information and ideas as well as a free system for broadcasting.”

Madam Speaker, the amendment Bill has defined the types of licenses available by taking into consideration differentiation between the types of broadcasting services based on their nature, mandate and funding and, in particular, differences between public commercial and community broadcasting services. This has been done by the recognition of the rapid advances that have been made in technology the world over.

Madam Speaker, the amendment Bill also seeks to harmonise definitions with those contained in the Information and Communication Technology Act being cognisant of the converging technologies which are providing platforms for a variety of services. My ministry, therefore, fully recognises the fact that convergence in some of the functions will become real in the near future. The emergence of convergence trends dictate this in order to allow for swift and efficient reactions to economic and industry conditions and reduce instances of regulatory confusion and conflict.

Madam Speaker, ensuring quality service is one of the most important objectives of regulation. It is for this reason that I urge the hon. Members of the House to support this Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapeya: Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2010, referred to on 13th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 29th July, 2010.

Madam Speaker, I would like to indicate, from the outset, that your Committee has a lot of reservations on certain aspects of the Bill and do not, therefore, support it in its entirety.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: We will vote against it.

Mr Kapeya: Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware, the Act that this Bill seeks to amend, the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act No. 17 of 2002, has not been operationalised since its enactment almost eight years ago.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Madam Speaker, first things should be done first. What the Government should have done is to operationalise the law in order to test its efficacy. This is a source of worry for most Zambians.

Madam Speaker, the Bill proposes to repeal Section 8 of the Act which provides for the appointments committee and its functions. The Executive argues that this is meant to make the appointment process of board members more efficient adding that the Supreme Court ruling of 2007 makes the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services the sole appointing authority.

Madam Speaker, the said Supreme Court ruling of 2007 did not include the abolition of the appointments committee, but merely guided that the hon. Minister had the latitude to accept or reject names recommended to him or her for appointment to the board by the appointments committee. The repeal of this section means that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services will now directly and singularly appoint the nine members of the IBA board without any input from the appointments committee contrary to the spirit of the media reforms.  This move makes a mockery of the name of the authority, the Independent Broadcasting Authority, as it will no longer be so.

To add insult to injury, as the adage goes, the Bill goes further to delete the section that provides for the requirement that appointees to the IBA board be ratified by Parliament. This further removes that transparency and the checks and balances required in a democracy and so erodes public confidence in the regulator. 

Your Committee, therefore, rejects this amendment and recommends that Section 7 (2) and Section 8 of the principal Act be reinstated in their entirety.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Madam Speaker, of concern to stakeholders and your Committee are the grounds for cancellation of a broadcasting licence as given in the proposed Section 29 (1) (J) and (K) which provides that the board may cancel a broadcasting licence if the cancellation of the licence is necessary in the interest of public safety, security, peace, welfare or good order or the board considers it appropriate in the circumstances of the case to do so. This is an open cheque and may be abused to get even with broadcasters who may not be in good terms with the Government of the day. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that these two provisions be dropped completely.

Madam, finally, allow me to thank you for giving your Committee the opportunity to scrutinise this Bill and to all the witnesses who appeared before it. I would also like to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.

Madam, Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the debate on this Act is a long and protracted one, starting from, if I recall well, 2000. In 2000, a Committee such as the one my colleague represents as chairperson made a recommendation on the Floor of this House to amend the law to provide for an independent broadcasting authority. Our colleagues on your right side at that stage rejected that recommendation out rightly. 

This led to civil society organisations, media institutions, legal practitioners like my colleague, Hon. Mulongoti and others, to mount a campaign for media reforms and in 2002, it will be recalled that people on this side of the House moved, amongst others, a Motion for the Independent Broadcasting Authority Bill. On 17th November, 2002, Hon Dipak Patel, then hon. Member of Parliament representing the people of Lusaka Central, moved a Motion for the Independent Broadcasting Authority Bill here. Our dear friends on the opposite side pleaded with Dipak Patel and others to withdraw the Motion because they would present a similar one. 

Indeed, on 17th December, 2002, the then hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, Hon. Newstead Zimba, came here and presented the Independent Broadcasting Authority Bill for second reading. I would like to quote some of the words that he used. This quote is not from the Parliament Website but an extract of the verbatim script of Parliamentary debates, which I am sure is official. He said:

“Mr Speaker, this House will agree with me that this Bill is long overdue. May I give a background to this. The Independent Broadcasting Authority should have been put in place about ten years ago.”

Madam, that was in 2002. He was saying that the IBA should have been put in place in 1992. He also said that he was indebted to the House for amending the law so as to remove the broadcasting regulatory authority from the hon. Minister. That is what he said in moving the Bill for second reading. He was commending us for having agreed with the Government to remove the regulatory function from the hon. Minister. However, even before we can practice or implement this law, which is to remove this power from the hon. Minister, which was passed in good spirit, we have come back here saying we made a mistake and actually want to give power back to the hon. Minister. 

What is the mischief that we want to cure? What is it that we have seen which did not work? Like the chairperson of the Committee said, let us not misinterpret the ruling of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court was reminding us that as Parliamentarians, when we said that the appointments committee will recommend, we missed the point because we were saying the hon. Minister will have the final authority under that arrangement. The mischief we should be curing is that which makes the appointments committee to recommend. What the hon. Minister should be doing now is to say let us substitute the word ‘recommend’ with ‘submit’ so that it is no longer up to the hon. Minister because that was the spirit behind which we came up with that law.

Madam, I wish Hon. Vernon Mwaanga was here because I would have wanted to say one thing to him. Maybe, I should quote what he said many years ago when he was in his hay days. He said:

“What I find objectionable is the over concentration of power in the hands of one person. What that person does depends almost entirely upon his personal ideology, his force of character and his capacity to resist pettiness and resist easy solutions.

Since he will be overloaded with what Karl Max calls the instruments of violence, he will have little or no need to persuade his compatriots that dialogue and compromise are essential to the democratic evolution of nationhood.”

How I wish the Chief whip would advise the hon. Minister that over concentration of power in one person over burdens him/her. It also ought to be known that no one person is wise enough or good enough to be entrusted with unlimited power. This amendment seeks to deposit unlimited power in the office of the hon. Minister. This must be understood not to mean that there is any antagonism with the current holder of the office. It is not the question of personality, but that of the office of the hon. Minister. Why has the Government not proposed an amendment to the name of the broadcasting authority to read Government Broadcasting Authority?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Because of the fact that the hon. Minister or whoever occupies that office will have to pay allegiance to his appointing authority and the adoption committee of his party, he invariably has to start putting in that committee people who are politically correct. Therefore, they might as well amend the name from Independent Broadcasting Authority to Ruling Party Broadcasting Authority.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That will be more appropriate than what is obtaining at the moment.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, all of us know that an appointee is an agent of the appointing authority. You cannot expect a person that you appoint as your agent to be independent of you the appointing authority. Not even the Lord Jesus Christ was independent of his Father. When he came here on earth, he said: 

“I have come to do the will of the one who sent me.”

Hon. Member: Amen!

Mr Lubinda: Likewise, the appointed people on this board shall come here and tell us that we are doing the will of the one who appointed us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That need not be my uncle, Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha, it could as well be Hon. Charles Kakoma in a year or two.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: We do not want any one of us to be trapped in that kind of unlimited power.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, let me also use another argument which, I hope, His Honour the Vice-President will buy. In this kind of arrangement, we are giving monopoly to the hon. minister to identify potential appointees.

Secondly, we are also giving him the discretion to decide to interview alone without reference to anyone. After identifying potential appointees, he will sit alone and interview them.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: It will be done at a place of his choice.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: It will be at Rhapsody’s, a Church for born again Christians, my own Church or Namakau House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: And that will be done by one person.

The third aspect is that this lacks any kind of accountability, as this person will not be accountable to anybody in the process.

Madam Speaker, it has been stated already that monopoly plus discretion minus accountability is a recipe for corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Lubinda: I do not think that my dear uncle, Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha would like to be trapped. Not my dear Rev Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha or any other person who will take over from him would like to be trapped. I think that my colleagues on your Right are not being kind to the occupant of the office of Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services. I would like to suggest to my colleagues that, please, for the sake of my dear uncle, Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member should not be debating the uncle here, but the hon. Minister, the occupant of the office. 

You may continue with no reference to uncles.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, when I go to the village, I shall be asked questions and I shall say I spoke on his …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member will continue debating the matter on the Floor but not villages. 

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Madam, I will not make reference to any villages.

Madam Speaker, I would like to propose that, for the sake of the current and future occupants of that office, please, withdrawal this amendment and bring back the appointments committee so that power is balanced so that many players are involved in appointing people who sit on the board. Only then will we say that we have an Independent Broadcasting Authority. Outside that will only be ‘mickey mousing’ around with words, and I do not think it is correct for, us in this House, to allow our colleagues to ‘mickey mouse’ with such important issues of governance.

Madam Speaker, besides that, I have a few other observations and some of which were captured by your Committee, others that might have been missed. At the expense of repeating, I will just go through those quickly as a way of emphasis.

Firstly, the question of definitions and whether it be an Independent Broadcasting Authority as we would like it to be or it be a Ruling Party Broadcasting Authority, at least, it also ought to remove all ambiguities. One ambiguity is provided for at Section 22(5) (e) and this is to do with the licensing which says: 

(e)    “Require the Broadcasting Licensee to refer us specified matters to the authority for determination;” and

(f)    “Specified matters as being matters on which there will be the discretion of the board.”

What are being referred to as specified matters are not specified anywhere in the law. I hope that Hon. Mulongoti will have an opportunity to come and refer to these specified matters so that he clarifies what they are. To have specified matters in the law which are not specified anywhere is too ambiguous. Can they be specific with those specified matters?

In addition, I wonder why the Bill is proposing to remove the Public Broadcaster from regulation by the IBA, what is the intention of that? I want to remind my colleagues, again, what the then hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services said on the Floor of this House on 17th December, 2002. He said that the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation, as public broadcaster, will not be exempt from the regulation of the IBA. I wonder what the motive is now to take away the public broadcaster from regulation. What is the reason? Can the hon. minister, please, explain why the public broadcaster is being taken away from regulation by the IBA.

Madam Speaker, at Section 23(1) (b) you will notice that two types of licenses have been combined. The community and the religious broadcasting service, and yet, later on, the two are distinguished. Will I propose that the hon. Minister poses an amendment so that these two become stand-alone-services? One should be specific for religious because the content is different while the other should be community because the content is also separate and independent of religious.

Madam Speaker, let me also make reference to the content to do with religious service. The amendment says:

“A religious service licensee will provide a community broadcasting service dealing specifically with religious issues.” 

Why do you want to limit them to be only broadcasting specifically religious issues when part (c) of the proposed amendments talks about focusing on the provision of programmes that highlight grassroots community issues, including development issues such as health care, access to basic information and general education? I would like to propose that the hon. Minister amends the amendment so that reference to specifically religious issues is removed. This will lead to the empowerment of those who have religious licenses to broadcast general development issues which include health and voter education as well as the sensitisation of people on governance issues. Why do you want to exclude them from discussing and broadcasting governance issues?

Madam Speaker, whereas the Bill proposes that an application for a licence will be answered within forty days, the law is silent on the amount of time that an application for renewal will take. This is a very dangerous trap because the board can decide to sit on the application for renewal for even one year and the applicant will have no recourse for justice. I, therefore, would like to propose that, in the same vein that we want the application to be responded to within one month or so, an application for renewal should also be dealt with within a month. After that, the applicant must have recourse to the courts. That way, we are going to allow the broadcasters to know that the hon. Minister cannot impose his will on the board so that the renewal of a licence is delayed.

Madam Speaker, let me end by saying it is very clear from Clause 29 that the intention of the Government, by coming up with this Bill, is simply to guard against independent broadcasting. If you look at Section 29, whereas there are only six grounds on which a licence can be suspended or withdrawn, our colleagues have increased the grounds to eleven. What the Government intends to do is run a State which is under the supreme control of the police. Let me say that the Opposition shall protect the citizens by voting against such amendments.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: The people must be given enough latitude within which to express themselves. You cannot have all the powers and use them with total monopoly without any accountability. That, the Zambians say no to and we shall say no on their behalf.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, I declare interest since I am on the Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services. I listened to the many stakeholders who came to give evidence and, to my recollection, there was not one single witness who was in favour of the major changes contained in the amendment Bill. The only people who defended it were people whose jobs depend on defending the Government. I do not know whether the word ‘frank’ is unparliamentary, and if it is, I will not use it. I think the Government needs to be aware that ...

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee, except for those we might be called captive witnesses, were against this amendment contained in this Bill. One of the questions that we asked is a matter of more or less a routine nature. What will be the difference between simply repealing the 2002 Act and returning to the status quo and enacting this amendment Bill? Depending on which direction we take, would it lead to any difference in things such as the neutrality and credibility of the media. In our sessions, nobody could think of points to suggest that there would be any substantive difference by us returning to the old regime or enacting this amendment Bill. The hon. Member for Kabwata and the Chairman of the Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services ably debated that point. Enacting this amendment would lead us to simply return power to the hon. Minister. This can lead to licences being revoked without any specified offences. I do not want to be part of that.

One of the areas in which we try to be a little creative and compromised is, if the spirit of compromise is there, it relates to the ratification of the Bill which seeks to establish the Independent Broadcasting Authority and the ratification of the board by this House. The requirements for this ratification to take place have been removed for a well-known reason. I remember when the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services came to defend the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Act before your Committee, it called for the removal of the advisory committee while keeping in place the ratification of the board by Parliament. The hon. Members of Parliament surely can be relied upon to judge who can make a good and dependable member of this board and who cannot. However, it seems the basis upon to take that direction has been removed. One of the submissions stated that even though an individual can be ratified by 51 per cent of the vote in this House to be on the board, it does not necessarily mean that the person is credible. We have seen before, in this House, for example, two names of commissioners to sit on the Electoral Commission of Zambia being ratified against the Opposition’s wish. We should not allow such ratifications to take place. Therefore, one of the suggestions that we are playing with is that we  introduce the requirement of a two-thirds majority ratification process in this House so that the person ratified could claim to have the support of, at least, hon. Members from across both floors of the House. That is how an independent board is supposed to be created. It is not supposed to be aligned to one party. However, the board must be acceptable to, at least, two or three of the largest parties in a country. If a board’s ratification is pushed by only the Executive in the House just because its hon. Members are in the majority, then that board will lack credibility. Without making any commitments on behalf of anyone, I think this is an area which the Opposition might be prepared to discuss. Therefore, I urge the hon. Minister, first and foremost, to withdraw this Bill which is negative, old fashioned, pre-multi-party democracy era and pre-civilisation.

Laughter

Dr Scott: The hon. Minister must withdraw it, but if he does not want to, let us, at least, negotiate over some measure of transparency in the ratification of the board. I implore the hon. Minister to take a step towards us at the negotiating table because what we have got here is something which, if we allow it to pass, will invite curses on our children and grandchildren.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Madam Speaker, I want to contribute to the debate on the Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2010 because I served as Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Madam Speaker, I heard Hon. Lubinda belabour to justify his arguments by going into historical perspectives and conveniently quoting people who are not here. However, his argument fell short of what is acceptable. 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Lusaka Central is a member of your Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services. I do not know whether the Committee’s recommendation was to withdraw the Bill. I also do not know whether members of your Committee are being consistent when they recommend ratification or adoption of the report, and later stand on the Floor of the House to demand the withdrawal of the same Bill. What guidance is being given to the House? 

Hon. Lubinda, you talked about the inability to go to court once aggrieved regarding this matter. As a law maker, you should understand …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Minister will speak through the Chair.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, judicial review is a provision that can be pursued to question the conduct of public officers. Do not embarrass us by not knowing things such as that as a law maker.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the whole purpose of appointing a board is to share responsibility. Therefore, one cannot accuse an hon. Minister of accumulating all the powers when he has appointed a board. Appointing a board implies the sharing of powers. The hon. Minister, however, must have the power to decide who can serve on the board for public policy considerations.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I do not know how a Government can function when all its powers are surrendered to bodies of all sorts without it having any say. The reason we go to elections is to win so that we can have the power to have a say in the way things are done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: This is precisely why we are governing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, we are not saying that we will not share some of the power to make certain decisions with others, but that we must have the final say. You are the same people who will accuse the Government of not doing certain things and not the boards. You always accuse us of not doing certain things because you know that we are the ones with the final say. Please, understand that we are only being fair. 

When I was Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, the Government gave so many licences for radio and television. We have not withdrawn a single licence to date. All the licensed stations are still functioning well. Tell me the mischief that you see in an hon. Minister having a say?

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: We exercise our powers judiciously and responsibly. It is those of you who have never exercised these powers whho see mischief in them.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Please, understand …

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: … that we are just like you, except a little better. That is why we are here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the court determined whether the hon. Minister must have a say in the final appointment of the board members. The court settled that you cannot take power from the appointing authority. What then would be the point in the hon. Minister appointing if he has no say? Therefore, to bring that argument here is not fair. The reason the Government has brought the Bill to the House is to rectify the anomaly that gave the impression to those who had no power to think they had it. Imagine what would happen if they were the appointing authority. 

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Why should those on the board be resisting the hon. Minister’s authority? That is not right. We have brought the Bill here so that the House puts in place a law which helps to enforce the decision by the court.

Interjection

Mr Mulongoti: No!

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Hon. Lubinda, I am just helping you to understand …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

That is a conversation.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Can the hon. Minister speak through the Chair?

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, ours is a democratic Government. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr Mulongoti: Whenever we have an issue to settle, we always come to this House to request the participation of the hon. Members. Unfortunately, we have some Members who oppose everything all the time, including good things. 

They are the same people who say that we must privatise certain institutions. Now, if we privatised, would the board be appointed by an institution? The intention is to cure the same mischief that you have seen in the parastatals. 

 You are the same persons who are criticising the performance of some of these institutions. Do not give an impression to the public that there is some hidden agenda in a piece of legislation such as this one. We have seen its usefulness. Those of you who know that you will never have the opportunity to operationalise this law are anxious and worried.

Madam Speaker, when a law is introduced, the hon. Minister needs to put in place mechanisms to operationalise it. If you look at this Bill, it is not bulky because it is merely supposed to provide a guiding principle. 

Hon. Lubinda, do not complain. Just ask if you do not know.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: With regard to the issue of withdrawal of licence, when you see the increase in the number of reasons, it is in light of experience. We have tried to formalise issues so that if we have a complaint against you, there is a formal way to approach it. Please, do not be scared. If we increase the offences, we are only specifying so that you know that if you do a certain thing, it is unlawful.

Madam Speaker, this is a very good piece of legislation which requires no lengthy debate …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Mulongoti: … except for those who are misunderstanding the whole purpose and content of this piece of legislation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Mulongoti: Those of us in Government are comforted because we are being progressive.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of what existed in the past, we made amendments to suit the circumstances. Now, Hon. Dr Guy Scott is saying that we should go back to the old legislation.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: That kind of attitude, Hon. Dr Scott, is not helpful.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: We must cure things as we go.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Minister, please, look at the Chair so that you are not tempted to speak to individuals. Debate through the Chair and hon. Members will listen.

Mr Mulongoti: Sorry, Madam Speaker. I was tempted because when he was debating, he was also looking at me.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister has no mandate to respond to the Chair in that manner.

Mr Mulongoti: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I was saying that this is a wonderful piece of legislation that must be supported. I would like to emphasise that these Bills must be read carefully. 

Madam, there is also the issue of ratification of members of the board in the House. Why are hon. Members being selective? If they want all members of the board to be ratified in this House, let them say so, but they cannot selectively pick on one board while others remain untouched because all of them are important. 

Madam Speaker, we, as a Government, realised that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha, as you know he is a reverend as well, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: … is a very responsible Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Mr Mulongoti: There is no way he can allow a misfit to be on the board. After praying, when he says a member cannot be a part of the board …

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: … you cannot doubt that …

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: … because there is support from heavenly powers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Therefore, we have confidence in his integrity, abilities and experience.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, we have no doubt at all that this Bill will be operationalised, when it comes here, by a very responsible Government and hon. Minister. 

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, firstly, let me thank the Chairperson of your Committee for his remarks. May I also thank Hon. Mulongoti for such a wonderful and in-depth debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I was sitting here wishing he could continue debating a little longer, …

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … only not by looking on the other side of the House.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I would like to comment on a number of points that Hon. Lubinda raised. One of the things that we should not do in everything that we do, as hon. Members of Parliament, is to be limited in our knowledge. This is very important so that we do not misinform the nation.

Madam, the first point that Hon. Lubinda raised regarding allowing the Zambia National and Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) being under the IBA showed critical limitation of knowledge.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: If his research was complete, he should have known that the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation Act does not allow that institution to be subjected by another authority. That should have been very clear. Therefore, it is wrong to misinform the nation when we are debating on the Floor of the House.

Secondly, the amendment that has been brought before the House clearly states all the areas that have been covered as regards the religious radio stations under Clause 24 (3), which is in perspective of many, as follows:

(a)    provide a community broadcasting service dealing specifically with religious issues;

(b)    be informative, educational and entertaining;

(c)    focus on the provision of programmes that highlight grassroots community issues, including developmental issues, health care, basic information and general educational and environmental affairs and other spiritual matters; and

(d)    promote the development of a sense of religious purpose and improve the quality of life. 

Madam Speaker, all of these are covered under the clause dealing with religious radio stations that are going to deal with all those matters, and yet the hon. Member debated that they are only restricted to one area which, again, is a weakness in knowledge because the Act clearly shows …

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … the importance of a religious station and all that is allowed than what he was talking about.

Madam, it is important, as Hon. Mulongoti has said, that we are progressive in what we are doing. It is important that this nation moves forward for us to understand that the appointments committee is not …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is it on correction of fact?

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

Madam Deputy Speaker: You can raise your point of order.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order to imply that I was debating from a position of ignorance in so far as the regulation of the ZNBC by the IBA is concerned, without him declaring that he, himself, has not understood the content of the report of your Committee?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

 The hon. Member will have to bring out the fact that he wants clarified rather than go into a general debate. Bring out the fact that you feel you have been misinterpreted on.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam, I am wondering whether the reverend is in order, …

Hon. Government Members: Your uncle!

Mr Lubinda: …who is my uncle, …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

If he is your uncle, you will go and settle your issues in the village.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Therefore, the hon. Member will be speaking to the hon. Minister through the Chair.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, through you, I wonder whether the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services is in order to make such insinuations without him declaring that, when he was reading this report, he did not understand the English contained therein as provided for at Page 7 for his information as follows:

“Concern was raised about the categorisation in the proposed Section 23 under Clause 9 of the type of licences that the IBA will superintend over. They noted that there is no provision for the regulation of public service broadcasting which gives the impression that the current public broadcaster, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation, has an implied licence and does not, therefore, fall under the ambit of the authority.”

Madam, is he in order not to declare that he did not read this report and, therefore, it is him who is debating from a position of ignorance and not me who read this report thoroughly …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and quoted it accurately.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will continue his debate and take that point of order into consideration.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, it is very important that we strengthen our weaknesses on information in all that we debate on in this House. The Zambia National Broadcasting Act is very clear. Indeed, I have read the report and the debate by the hon. Member clearly says that the ZNBC has been withdrawn from the IBA.

Madam Speaker, the information available is that this organisation cannot be subjected to another authority. That is the law and it cannot be changed. I am talking about facts that are available to us. Similarly, the issue of Clause 24 is very clear in the draft document. Therefore, it is necessary that, when we are debating, we inform the nation according to what is written. The Christian organisation radio station is clearly allowed to take care of a number of things here under subsection 3:

“The programming provided by a religious broadcasting service shall reflect the religious beliefs and needs of the people and shall:

(a)    provide a community broadcasting service dealing specifically with religious issues;

(b)    be informative, educational and entertaining;

(c)    focus on the provision of programmes that highlight grassroots community issues, including, developmental issues, health care, basic information and general educational and environmental affairs and other spiritual matters.”

Madam Speaker, this is what this draft law is talking about. It does not exclude broadcasting of other programmes. Therefore, the poverty of information necessitates us to research before we even come and talk here. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division.

Question that the Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2010 be read a second time, put and the House voted.

Ayes – (61)

Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr C. K. B. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr W. Banda
Ms Changwe
Major Chibamba
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chimbaka
Mr Chinyanta
Dr Chishya
Dr Chituwo
Major Chizhyuka
Mr Chongo
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Ms Kapwepwe
Mr Kasongo
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda, SC
Ms Lundwe
Mr Lungu
Mr Machila
Mr Magande
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Mrs Masebo
Mr Mbewe
Mr Misapa
Mrs Chitika-Molobeka
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukuma
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Munkombwe
Dr Musonda
Mr Mutati
Mr Muteteka
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Dr Mwansa
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwila
Ms Namugala
Mr Namulambe
Mr Nyirenda
Professor Phiri
Dr Puma
Mr Shawa
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sichilima
Mr Sikazwe
Mrs Sinyangwe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Taima
Mr Tembo
Ms Tembo

Tellers for Ayes:

Mr Chilembo
Mr Nkombo

Noes – (24)

Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chisala
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamududu
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Kapeya
Mr Kasoko
Dr Katema
Mr Katuka
Mr Lubinda
Mr Malama
Mr Matongo
Mr Mooya
Mr Mukanga
Mr G. B. Mwamba
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwenya
Mr D. Mwila
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Dr Scott
Mr Sejani
Mr Simuusa
Mr Syakalima.

Tellers for Noes: 

Mr Lubinda
Mr V. Mwale 

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Competition and Consumer Protection Bill, 2010

____________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_____________

The House adjourned at 1156 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 3rd August, 2010.