Debates- Wednesday, 20th October, 2010

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Wednesday, 20th October, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make this ministerial statement in this august House, today, Wednesday, 20th October, 2010.

Mr Speaker, this is in compliance with your directive that I make a ministerial statement on the alleged police brutality at the Chalimbana University of Zambia Farm, following a point of order raised by Hon. Jean Kapata, Member of Parliament for Mandevu, on Wednesday, 13th October, 2010 and also on the shooting incident at Collum Coal Mine in Sinazeze, following a point of order raised by Hon. Raphael Muyanda, Member of Parliament for Sinazongwe on Friday, 15th October, 2010.

Mr Speaker, I will, in this statement, cover both issues.

Mr Speaker, on the police brutality at the Chalimbana University of Zambia Farm, allow me to first give the august House a brief background of the problem of illegal squatters in Lusaka, before I address the specific issue of squatters at the Chalimbana University of Zambia Farm.

Mr Speaker, in the recent past, there has been a public outcry on illegal land allocation and occupation, particularly by people masquerading as party cadres. The reports have been numerous and devastating to the extent that the Head of State directed that there be an end to it. Consequently, a task force comprising members from the ministries of Homes Affairs, Lands, Justice, Local Government and Housing, Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and Information and Broadcasting Services was constituted to deal with the scourge. To date, reports of illegal allocation of land are being received and the police are being used to repossess, and where there has been a need, arrest the culprits.

Mr Speaker, reports of illegal allocation of land are being received on a daily basis. The police, who are part of the Task Force on Land, move in to remove the squatters and in some cases, culprits have been arrested and taken to the courts of law. Those who resist police appeals to vacate land that does not belong to them meet the long arm of the law enforcement agencies.

Mr Speaker, squatters are violent people who do not care about who owns the land they intend to grab. They use force to grab and sell plots, disguising themselves as party cadres. They do this knowing fully well that the law enforcement agencies will remove them with minimum force. Squatters hope that by doing so, they will get sympathy from the general public as is the case under discussion.

Mr Speaker, each time the police approach the squatters, the latter become violent and begin to throw stones at the police. There are numerous examples of confrontations between the law enforcement agencies, the police in this case, and the illegal land grabbers and squatters.

Mr Speaker, between August, 2008 and October, 2010, a number of farms in Lusaka, belonging to individuals, have been encroached upon by squatters. In almost all the cases, the invaders come armed with sticks, axes, picks, slashers and stones with which they attack owners of the farms.

Mr Speaker, let me, at this point, give the august House a few of the many examples in support of what I have stated:

(a) In August, 2008 at Farm No. 1938 / Lusaka West, the owner of the farm was attacked by suspected cadres who were armed with stones and sticks with the intention to illegally take over the farm;

(b) in March, 2009 at the Sibling Over my Shoulder (SOS) Children’s Village, a group of Ng’ombe displaced residents went to the plot where the Ministry of Education intended to build a school and damaged property worth millions of Kwacha;

(c) in April, 2009, a large group of irate people masquerading as party cadres, armed with hoes, picks and machetes invaded Farm No.687/1/D/18 in Makeni Satwant area. The farm belongs to Mr Manual Hamakoko. The family was attacked and Mrs Hamakoko sustained injuries on her neck and arm;

(d) in August, 2009, a group of suspected cadres entered property No. 2978/M in Kabanana and using machetes, stones and other building instruments attacked the owner of the farm. Suspected cadres have since built houses on the farm;

(e) in September, 2009, Farm No.5664 in Lusaka West belonging to Mrs Edna Sitwale, a widow, was encroached by a large number of people armed with sticks and picks. They injured the owner and grabbed part of the farm and built houses on it;

(f) in November, 2009, a group of about 100 suspected cadres attacked Farm No. 2/37/M in Ibex Hill. They assaulted the caretaker who sustained serous injuries on both legs. They also looted and demolished two farms houses;

(g)  on 10th December, 2009 at Mwiinga’s Farm 144/M, Lusaka West, a group of irate suspected cadres descended on the bailiffs and some police officers who had gone to secure a farm by a wall fence. They attacked police officers and set ablaze a grader and a vannette;

(h) in July, 2010, at Lusaka SOS Children’s Village dispute area, about 20 makeshift structures occupied by women of Ng’ombe displaced people were set ablaze by suspected party cadres armed with iron bars, chains and machetes. They were led by Mr Ziffa Banda who was arrested and is appearing before the court;

(i) in August, 2010, Farm 12780 in Lusaka West belonging to Mr Saffieadine was invaded by an angry mob, armed with iron bars, picks and axes and pulled down the wall fence, thus securing the farm.

(j) in the same month of August, 2010, Colonel Moses Phiri, in the company of Detective Inspector Mtonga of Lusaka Division, went to his farm Number 7050/M. At the farm, they found a group of suspected party cadres armed with hoes handles, axes and slashers. They attacked and assaulted Colonel Phiri. He sustained serious injuries on his face whilst his motor vehicle, a Toyota Corolla, was badly damaged. The police officer sustained a mutilated right ear. Two suspects; namely, Mr James Ngosa and Mr Mbangu have since been arrested and appeared before the court.

(k) in October, 2010 a large group of irate suspected party cadres armed with sticks, axes and machetes encroached a farm for the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research. Police moved to the site and the invaders scampered in different directions.

Mr Speaker, regarding the alleged police brutality as depicted in the video clip by Muvi Television, what transpired started with squatters illegally occupying the University of Zambia Farm. Efforts by the University of Zambia (UNZA) management to persuade the squatters to leave the area failed. The squatters became violent, thereby forcing management to seek police intervention. The police went to the area and managed to push them out of the area. However, the squatters retreated in order to regroup. They re-organised themselves and came back to fight the police.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, three scenarios are depicted in the video clips. The first scenario shows police officers guarding the farm where they had earlier managed to remove the squatters. The second one shows a mob of squatters organised in military fashion, getting ready to attack and force the police out of the farm. Squatters are seen chanting slogans and running towards police officers. In the third and last scenario, the police are seen overpowering the squatters using short batons. The police used short batons to calm the situation and thereby managed to bring the situation to normal. Those arrested have since appeared in court.

Mr Speaker, it is clear from what I have said that the police use minimum force in situations where squatters who illegally occupy land by force and refuse to obey police orders to leave such illegally occupied land.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Force is among the law enforcement agencies that are entrusted by the Zambian people with the responsibility of ensuring that law and order is upheld in order that all of us, as Zambians, go on with our various businesses in an environment of peace and security. In doing so, they will, where necessary, apply minimum force to ensure compliance with our laws. Those who trample on other people’s human rights risk losing their rights.

Mr Speaker, to this effect, I wish to inform this august House that from the disturbances that occurred, 139 persons were arrested and, of these, fifty persons were from the University of Zambia Farm fracas and the rest from other areas.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude on this matter by appealing to all members of the public to be law-abiding citizens. Similarly, I appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament to sensitise their constituents on the need to use the existing laws to obtain land. This way, we will all be contributing to making Zambia a peaceful place in which to live.

Mr Speaker, let me now address the august House on the shooting incident at Collum Coal Mine in Sinazeze.

Mr Speaker, there was, indeed, a shooting incident in Sinazeze. The incident, which is regrettable, happened when the Chinese Mine management workers shot at the demonstrating mine workers using shotgun cartridges.

Mr Speaker, as a result of the shooting, thirteen miners were reported to have been injured with two in serious conditions and admitted to the Maamba Mine Hospital. The two have since been transferred to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH).

Sir, the background to the unfortunate incident is that the Callum Mine management in Sinazeze has had differences with its workers over low salaries. There had been discussions between the management and the workers on the issues of salaries. Arising from these discussions, the workers had hoped that there would be an increase in the October salaries. When the first group of workers received their salaries on 15th October, 2010, they discovered that there was no increase to their salaries.

Mr Speaker, when the first group informed their colleagues that there had been no increase to their salaries, they all agreed to confront management. When the group of workers advanced as a mob, management felt threatened and two of them shot at the crowd.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the two were arrested and temporarily detained at Sinazeze Police Station and later, shifted to Choma Central Prison, pending investigations.

Mr Speaker, after the incident had happened, the Government, through the ministries of Home Affairs, Labour and Social Security and Mines and Minerals Development, on one hand, and the Chinese Government, through its embassy in Zambia and management of Callum Coal Mine in Sinazongwe, on the other hand, engaged in discussions on the issue.

Mr Speaker, I am glad to report to the House that the Chinese Embassy has, among other measures, also urged the owner of the coal mine to consider paying better salaries to the Zambian workers. This is in line with the Government’s appeal to all investors in Zambia to strictly comply with the Zambian laws and regulations

Mr Speaker, the Zambian Government is carrying out investigations into the Callum Coal Mine incident and will bring to book all the offenders. The information that I have is that the situation is presently under control and the police are keeping vigil of the mine.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, let me briefly, but strongly say something on the need for all political party leaders to tell their supporters to be peaceful in the campaigns currently going on in the Chilanga and Mpulungu by-elections. Leaders and their supporters should desist from conducting themselves in a manner likely to cause a breach of peace. They must co-operate with the law enforcement agencies. Failure to do so will be met with the full force of the law.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The comments which I have been hearing on my left are extremely offensive. You were the ones, through points of order, who demanded a ministerial statement on the two issues. When the hon. Minister is speaking, you had better listen and stop making irresponsible remarks. Some of the remarks you are making are unparliamentary and very insulting.

In future, I shall be most reluctant to accept a point of order that calls for a ministerial statement because I do not want this House to be subjected to insults.

Hon. Members may ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been delivered by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, may I find out whether it is permissible for management to carry firearms and shoot at employees as a means of resolving problems.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the management is not allowed to shoot at people. This is why I mentioned in my statement that two people in management who shot at the employees have been arrested by the police.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, if my memory serves me right, this is the second incident where Chinese management have shot at workers. This happened at Chambishi Mine three years ago and now it has happened again at Callum Mine. Are these people licensed to carry weapons? What is the Government planning to do to ensure that, in future, they behave like other employers who do not shoot at employees when they demonstrate?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, whether people carry licensed guns or not, that does not give them the right to shoot at others. As a Government, we are concerned about this and this is one of the issues we are looking at to ensure that people carrying licensed guns do not misuse them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister talked about the task force to deal with the problem of squatters in the country that has been created and that consists of several ministries. May I find out what progress the task force has made, particularly in relation to the vast land in my constituency that belongs to the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) where squatters are trying to take over the land. What progress has this committee made in relation to that particular piece of land because I am currently aware that offer letters are being given?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the Task Force on Land has made considerable progress. The police are represented on the task force and they also get reports of invasions on some pieces of land by squatters everyday. This problem involves large settlements. I believe the land in question that Hon. Masebo is referring to is one of those tracts of land that involves more than 100 squatters.

The position taken by the Task Force on Land is that to remove these many people from a piece of land, the law enforcement agencies have to prepare for any eventuality. They have to go with short batons. Those of you who watch television must have seen them use these on the violent squatters at the University of Zambia Farm. For this reason, I have written to my counterpart in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to request for more funds so that the law enforcement agencies can adequately prepare if they have to remove violent squatters from pieces of land of that size. I can assure Hon. Masebo that the task force is actually doing something about this.

Last week, Hon. Lubinda also came to complain to me that people were encroaching on a piece of land where a police post is supposed to be built. In fact, yesterday, he told me that they had already built houses on that piece of land. Once these people invade a piece of land, it takes them two to three days to put up structures. This has made the work of law enforcement agencies very difficult. I have spoken to those concerned in the ministry such as the Inspector-General of Police to follow up on these small-scale invasions. We need the support of the police and other law enforcement agencies if we are dealing with squatters on large tracts of land. However, they need to go prepared.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I think taking too long to prosecute illegal squatters is creating a problem. Are you planning to have a fast-track court like was done at the council for street vendors?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, that is a very good suggestion which we will look into. However, to have a fast-track court will not only involve the Ministry of Home Affairs, but also other competent people in that area. It is something worth looking at.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, the union representing workers at this mine is on record as having said that the Chinese do not respect the collective agreement at the moment. When will they respect the conditions of service that are negotiated between the employees and themselves so that peace is brought to this mine?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, if you heard me correctly, in the statement, I said that this is one area in which investigations are being carried out. You also heard me say that we have engaged these groups. In fact, the Chinese Ambassador agreed that the Chinese management needs to increase the salaries of the workers. We are of the same view and will engage them and ensure that it improves the conditions of service for the workers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that in certain situations, the police are allowed to use minimum force. May I know how minimum force is measured?


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, if you heard me correctly, in my statement, I said that the minimum force is the use of a short baton.


Mr Lungu: Sir, when confronting squatters or invaders, one cannot go with bare hands because these people carry all sorts of weapons. Therefore, the police must go prepared. In this particular case, the police removed these people using short batons and they retreated. They retreated initially, but regrouped and came back to attack the police. At that point, the police decided to use the minimum force which is the short baton.

The use of the short baton is the one that prompted the hon. Member for Mandevu and others to ask me if I had watched that clip in which they said the police were depicted as brutal. I asked for that video and watched it. After watching it, I realised that the police were not as brutal as portrayed in comparison with the people’s resistance to move from the farm and so the short batons forced them to move.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is justifying the use of the short baton, but confirming that the police used excessive force …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from him …

Hon. Members: Minimum force!

Mr Mwiimbu: … whether in the eyes and understanding of other hon. Members, they think that the use of a short baton is minimum force. Does the hon. Minister not think that the use of a short baton could maim or kill people?


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member misunderstood me. I did not say that the police used excessive force. I said the police used minimum force. The short button, depending on how it is used, can injure people. However, in this particular case, no one was injured and so it was the right force.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, the question relates to Sinazeze and Sinazongwe Constituency. Now that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has confirmed that the Chinese …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Please, ask your question.

Mr Muyanda: I am much obliged, Mr Speaker.

Could the hon. Minister assure this august House that the victims who suffered pain, anguish and vanquish arising from the shooting by the Chinese employers, who have ignored the by-laws and the Constitution of the country, will be compensated?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, on compensation for those who were injured, I stated in my statement that we are engaging the management and until we know the outcome, it will be premature for me to confirm that. I, therefore, leave it at that.

Mr Speaker, I would like to add a point which I did not cover in my speech. The police have arrested some people who were found with property of the management in their houses. Some people went out of the way and caused damage to the mine and this cannot be allowed. We cannot say that since they are demonstrating for improved conditions, they should engage in illegal activities such as stealing – sorry, the word ‘stealing’ is unparliamentary.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, they should not be getting things which do not belong to them. The onus is on us, hon. Members, to educate the people that if they have a grievance, they should express it according to the law. I hope that Hon. Muyanda will be patient enough to wait and see how the engagements will proceed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for those three very important ministerial statements. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, given the fact that the task force is depending on minimum force exerted by the short baton, whether he considers decentralising that power to all police stations so that as we sensitise the communities and report cases of invasion of land by illegal squatters who mostly pose as party cadres, it is not the ministry headquarters called upon to take action, but police stations who take action speedily before the people build as rapidly as they are doing thereon.

Mr Speaker, with your permission, given that the hon. Minister gave three statements, would I also raise a question on the Callum Coal Mine? Is it a practice that when an employer commits an offence against the laws of the land, the Government will negotiate with his or her ambassador as the case has been with the Chinese Embassy?

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister will follow the one-question rule.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, since the Government has not negotiated with the Chinese, I will ignore that question and concentrate on the first question. The suggestion that police stations keep short batons so that when reports are made, they are able to respond immediately is a good one.

Mr Speaker, the impression I have now, and this is subject to confirmation, is that all police stations should have short batons.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I am sure they have them, but the problem is that when reports are made to the police posts, only four police officers are on duty whereas the squatters invading a piece of land could be in their hundreds and armed with all sorts of missiles.

Mr Speaker, to expect the four police officers to confront the more than a hundred people is to throw them into a death trap. That is why they have to report to the head office for reinforcement and preparedness.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned cadres. Can he specify which political party the cadres belong to?

Hon. Government Members: PF!


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I said that it was suspected that they were political cadres. When we say this, it is difficult to know whether they are from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), Patriotic Front (PF) or others.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, they could come from all the parties. You cannot say they are from one political party because these invaders go across party boundaries. They could come from the United National Independence Party (UNIP), MMD, PF, United Party for National Developpment (UPND) and the rest.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, there is no ‘Question’.


Mr Lungu: The people who are saying, “Question”, will be the first to come to my office to complain that their land has been encroached upon. We should not look at this issue along partisan lines, but be united in solving the problem because it can affect anybody.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that about 139 people were arrested. Out of these, how many were convicted in the courts of law?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, having indicated that some of those arrested are appearing before the courts of law, I cannot go into details because doing so would be sub judice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister of Home Affairs allay the fears that the massive investment that this Government is getting from China is making it so weak that it is treating these Chinese offenders with kid gloves. This case is the latest in a series of human rights abuses involving the Chinese. Are you treating these Chinese offenders with kid gloves because of the investments that you are getting from China?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, obviously, we do not treat any investor with kid gloves. We treat all of them according to the law. As I stated, those who participated in the shooting have been arrested. They will be taken before the courts of law. Judgment will be passed by the courts of law based on the arguments which will be presented. There is nobody who will be treated with kid gloves. I have said, in my statement, that we are appealing to all the investors in the country to abide by the laws of this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has given us a catalogue of brutal invasions involving ruling party cadres, …


Mr Milupi: … will the hon. Minister state whether this is an indication that these cadres are aware that their party is losing power and, therefore, they want to go away with certain benefits? Will he say something on that, please?


Mr Speaker: Order!

Before the hon. Minister answers, let me state that it is an offence in this House or, in fact, in any house to put words in someone else’s mouth. I have noticed two such cases this afternoon. The one that has been committed by the hon. Member for Luena is the latest one, the other one was over here. For your confirmation, it is not the words ‘brutal force’, but ‘minimum force’ that were used.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, indeed, that is as it should be. In my speech, I also used the words ‘suspected party cadres’ and I recall hearing somebody asking which party the suspected cadres could have belonged to. However, I deliberately ignored him …


Mr Lungu: … because I did not say the MMD or any other party. I only referred to those people as suspected party cadres. I am speaking with a lot of passion. It is very easy for me to say they were PF cadres or UPND cadres, but I did not say that. I said suspected party cadres which could include even those from the MMD. I am being as honest as I possibly can because I know that in looking at such problems, it would not be correct for me to quickly conclude that the ones responsible are from a particular political party. The Government and I, as hon. Minister of Home Affairs, will make sure that whoever engages in illegal activities is arrested.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, the question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, when the Sinazeze shooting is looked at from a constitutional point of view, it is criminal.

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask a question do not debate.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. May I find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs why the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has not brought the case before the courts of law three weeks after the incident? What is he doing to make sure that those Chinese start appearing in court so that the issue is resolved?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, obviously, I do not tell the DPP how to go about his work. I cannot answer that particular question. The Government shall let the DPP decide when to take the matter to court. The most important point is that those who participated in the shooting have been arrested.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, it is the first time that we are hearing that the management …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are debating. We have gone through this many times before. Do not debate your question. Do not recap an hon. Minister’s statement because you may make a mistake.

What is your question?

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate to this House whether or not, after arresting the two Chinese nationals, the Government will deport them immediately.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is questions such as the one by the hon. Member that sometimes make it difficult for one to give an answer. When you arrest people, you take them to court and then the court decides on the next course of action. It is not the responsibility of the Minister of Home Affairs to decide the next course of action. We shall follow what the court shall decide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has issued a stern warning to all the political party cadres who are perpetrating violence. May I find out from the hon. Minister why the police who are under his ministry have failed to arrest or are scared of arresting party cadres from the MMD, who perpetuate violence. What explanation does he have for the police not arresting the cadres who attack innocent people, including hon. Members of Parliament, whom they find peacefully sleeping in their rooms? Why have they …


Mr Kakoma: … not been arrested to date?


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, as I have stated earlier, we shall arrest all those who flout the law regardless of the political parties they belong to. If it were proved that it was certain MMD individuals who committed a crime, obviously, the police would arrest them. However, since this information is being provided to this House by Hon. Kakoma who is a member of the UPND, I will take it with a pinch of salt because he may be advancing a point in order to further his own personal interests. Those on the other side may also come to me and say that it was not actually the MMD, but the UPND which was responsible for the violence. I have to be very cautious as I gather information. Thus, the question by Hon. Kakoma is irrelevant to what we are discussing.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate if at all he will consider deporting these people after they have been acquitted by the court or convicted  by the courts of law?

Mr Speaker: Order! That question has been asked and answered.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, depending on the hon. Minister’s definition of the word ‘stone’, can he state whether there is equal force being applied on both ends, regardless of whether it is minimum or maximum force, when there are suspected party cadres with stones on one side and the police officers with short batons on the other. I need his honest opinion.

Mr Lungu:  Mr Speaker, in this scenario, I would say there was equal force from both sides, but the police were a little stronger because they had protective gear. When people threw stones, they were able to parry them away. However, once they got near, the invaders knew that the short batons would be used on them.


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to seriously warn the encroachers that if they continue flouting the law, the police will apply the necessary force to get them off the land that they illegally settle on.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs what has happened to the Chinese national who shot Mr Mwanaumo at Chambishi Mine.

Mr Speaker: That question is not part of today’s ministerial statement.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that perpetual land grabbing by cadres and all and sundry is reflective of the inefficiencies in the land allocation system of the Ministry of Lands? 

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, there could be various reasons this has continued happening, but I think the Ministry of Lands would be in a better position to answer that question. However, I think what is true is that Zambians are really getting out of control. I am saying this honestly because I do not understand why a group of people would deliberately plan to build on a piece of land that they know is not theirs and then expect the owners of the land to keep quiet. That is not fair.

The invaders know that when the owners of the land seek police intervention as they did at the Chalimbana Farm, the police will not go there …

Mr Hachipuka: Barehanded.

Mr Lungu: … barehanded to plead with them nicely when they have failed to listen to the pleas of the land owner. I would like to seize this opportunity to appeal to all hon. Members to sensitise the people on the need to get land through the appropriate channels and follow the law.

I thank you, Sir.




107. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when works on the expansion of Mambilima Health Clinic into a mini- hospital would commence;

(b) what had caused the delay in starting the works on the project;

(c) what the capacity of the mini-hospital would be upon completion; and

(d) how much money would be spent on completion of the project.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Chituwo) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr Simbao)): Mr Speaker, no specific works to turn Mambilima Rural Health Centre into a mini-hospital have been planned. However, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, is working to improve the services being offered at the health centre by improving staffing levels, housing and infrastructure facilities. You may wish to know that in its 2010 Infrastructural operational plan, the Ministry of Health will undertake the construction of phase one of a district hospital in Mwense and the site has already been identified.

Mr Speaker, there were some considerations before to turn Mambilima Rural Health Centre into a mini-hospital, but this was not fully realised and instead, as stated earlier, a first level hospital is being built in Mwense District.

Mr Speaker, for now, Mambilima remains a rural health centre whose catchment area is 10,000 people. Therefore, there is no money allocated to transform Mambilima Rural Health Centre into a mini-hospital.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister when more staff houses will be constructed at this health centre.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, having realised the need to improve the facilities at Mambilima Rural Health Centre, it is in our plans to start constructing houses as soon as possible in order to accommodate more staff that will be sent there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that a hospital will be under construction in Mwense District two months before this year ends. Why should this be the case when ,elsewhere, the ministry has already started building hospitals in its 2010 Work Plan?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, a contract has already been awarded to Mwasika Building Contractors at a sum of K4 billion for phase one of the proposed district hospital which will consist of maternity, theatre, x-ray and service blocks. This hospital will have the capacity of 120 beds. 

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


109. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning what the population growth rate for Zambia was as of 31st December, 2009.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that by 31st December, 2010, the population growth rate for Zambia was 2.9 per cent on average. This was arrived at using the 2000 census, which had a base rate of 2.4 per cent, and other assumptions such as fertility (the average number of children being born to a woman), mortality and migration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what major strategies the Government has instituted to ensure that our children have employment when they grow up, in line with target two of the First Millennium Development Goal (MDG), and not go into extreme poverty.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that these growth rates are projected figures and very important because they assist us to plan how to allocate the resources for us to achieve what the hon. Member has talked about. It is because of this projected growth rate that we have increased allocations to social sectors such as education and health.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the population growth rate is approximately 3 per cent. However, in the Budget Speech, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was pegged at 6 per cent. Does it mean that our population is growing at 3 per cent less than the GDP? Would the hon. Minister, please, clarify this difference.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the economy is expanding by 6 per cent per year and the population is expanding by half that rate per year. Therefore, on average, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita or income is still increasing roughly at 3 per cent. As I indicated, also, in the Budget Speech, the income per head is rising in this country. It was just about US$306 per person ten years ago, but it is now close to US$1,000 per person.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kawandami (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, does Zambia have plans to amend legislation to allow parents who are unable to have children have them through the use of surrogate mothers?

Mr Speaker: Is there any bonus answer?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is free to attempt to present a Bill to that effect if she feels that such a step could be important for the development of this country.

I thank you, Sir.


110. Colonel Chanda (Kanyama) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) what the projected staffing levels at the New Kanyama Referral Hospital would be once operational, by category;

(b) what the anticipated patient population in the following categories would be:

(i) Under-Five Clinic;

(ii) maternity;

(iii) HIV/AIDS related illnesses;

(iv) malaria; and

(v) cancer; and

(c) what the number of ambulances at the hospital would be.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the projected staffing levels at the New Kanyama Referral Hospital once operational will be as follows:

Lusaka District Health Management Team Staffing for Proposed New Kanyama Hospital

Professional/Support staff   Proposed Establishment No.         of Staff for 1st Level Hospital

Theatre Superintendent 1
Anesthetist Clinical Officers 1  
Registered Theatre Nurses 2
General Medical officers 4  
Senior Anesthetist Clinical Officer 1
Porters 3
Cleaners 21
Senior Resident Medical Officer 1
Nursing Officer 1
Nursing Sister 7
Registered Nurses  13
Clinical Officer Generals 5
Enrolled Nurses  45
Medical Records Clerk 4
Waiter 2
Office Orderly 1
Darkroom Assistant 2
Principal clinical Officer 1
Registered Midwife 6
Senior Dental Therapist 1
Public Health Nurse 1
Enrolled Midwife 7
Medical Records Clerk 4
Revenue Collectors 4
Carpenter 1
Station Handyman 5
Security Guards 4
Dental Attendant 1
Clinical Officer Ophthalmology 1
Pharmacy Technologist 2
Pharmacy Dispenser 1
Pharmacist 1
Senior Pharmacy Technologist 1
Laboratory Technologist 3
Laboratory Technician 1
Senior Laboratory Technologist 1
Telephone Operator 2
Radiographer 1
Radiolography Technologist 3
Senior Radiolographer 1
Physiotherapist 1
Physiotherapy Technologist 2
Senior Nursing Officer 1
Nutritionist 1
Clinical Officer Psychiatry 1
Electrician Technician 1
Assistant Human Resource Manager 1
Tailor 1
Senior Clinical Officer Dermatology 1
Cooks 3
Mortuary Attendant 2
Night Superintendents 2
Catering Officer 1 
Drivers 2
Medical Licentiate 3
Medical Equipment Technician 1
Laundry Man 3
Environmental Health Technician 2
Dental Surgeon 1
Dental Technologist 1
Plumber 1
Purchasing/Supplies Officer 1
Purchasing/Supplies Assistant 1
Stenographer 1
Typist 2
Senior Clinical Officer Anesthesia 1
Refrigeration Technician 1
Psychosocial Counsellor 5
Medical Officer-in-Charge 1
Total 209

Mr Speaker, it is expected that the new service will deal with more complicated cases such as severe or complicated malaria, Caesarean sections and asphyxia in babies, among others, that would normally have been referred to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). The proportion of those who by-pass the health centre to the UTH is also expected to reduce. The anticipated patient populations in selected categories are as follows:

Kanyama HC   Health Service Burden

Population 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013
(CSO 2000)
Total Population 106,434 108,894 110,419 111.964 113,532

Under 5 21,287   21,779 22,084 22,393 22,706

Women of Child 23,415 23,957 24,292 24,632 24,977
 bearing age

Child Health

Population 2010 U5 Attendance OPD Attendance

21,779 514,087 202,826


 2007 2008

Under 5 case 15,656 10,373

Over 5 cases  11,457 5,851


Expected Pregnancies 5,880 
Expected deliveries 5,662


2009 2010

Enrolled in ART 1,986 1,463

Cumulative   15,975 17,438

Expected Pregnancies 5,880 
Expected deliveries 5,662


2009 2010

Enrolled in ART 1,986 1,463

Cumulative 15,975 17,438

Mr Speaker, the role of the health centre and first level hospital in the Cancer Programme is mainly for screening and prevention of cancer as the actual treatment is done at the specialised facilities. Currently, there is an active Cervical Cancer Screening Programme and data that has been collected for the Kanyama Health Centre through this programme is given below.

Period No. of women Screened

January to December, 2008 1,049

January to December, 2009 1,058

September, 2009 to 1,086
September, 2010

We propose to have two ambulances for the new hospital. Currently, the health centre has one ambulance that is functional.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister, most sincerely, for the elaborate response. With such projections and expectations of the people of Kanyama, when will the hospital actually be opened?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the opening of the hospital can be viewed in terms of the services that are being offered. Currently, a surgical team has been assembled and has embarked on work from the Eastern Province and Chawama. Soon, it will be starting at Kanyama and include all the refurbished first level referral hospitals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, what is happening at Kanyama Clinic is quite wonderful.

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are debating. What it is your question?

You may continue.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, has the Ministry of Health any plans to extend the programme to other provinces, more especially in Kitwe where there are only clinics and one hospital which is overcrowded?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, our mission is to provide affordable quality health services as close to the people as possible through the Infrastructure Development Plan. In order to provide quality services to the people, we will consider selected clinics to provide first level hospital care, especially where there is an increase in population and, thereby, increased needs. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, given that this referral hospital will cater for a population of 106 thousand people, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what level of ambulance stocking is optimal. This is in view of the fact that the ambulances will be expected to bring patients from their homes to the referral centre as well as take them to the UTH and back to the referral centre.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we stated that we are planning for two ambulances. We can have an ideal plan, but the limiting factor is the lack of resources. I think we should be looking forward to the progression or improvement in the services. With time and increased work, this can be reviewed in order to provide the necessary preferred services that would meet the needs of the people in Kanyama.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government will procure new equipment for Kanyama Clinic before it opens to avoid the controversy that surrounded the opening of Chawama Clinic.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, there are plans to procure equipment in all the clinics. However, you cannot always wait to acquire all the required equipment. Therefore, in order to meet the immediate needs, the Government must be commended for taking an initiative to provide the services.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister consider the interest shown by some political parties in Under-Five clinics by increasing the staffing levels to the Under-Five Clinic at Kanyama?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the future of our nation depends on the under-five children.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: It is imperative that the Government, through the Ministry of Health, provides the best services for the Under-Five Clinic because only then can we be assured of proper brain development apart from the physical development of a child. Clearly, with the increased number of pregnancies, more children will be born and join the ranks of under-five. Therefore, we, as a Government, will commit ourselves to providing the best that we can.

I thank you, Sir.


111. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Health what measures the Government had taken to reduce deaths caused by cholera in the 2010/2011 rainy season, countrywide.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the Government has taken the following measures to reduce deaths caused by cholera in the 2010/2011 rainy season countrywide:

(i) held training courses in cholera control in the Southern, Copperbelt, Northern and Luapula provinces as these are the cholera-prone areas. In this training, we included councillors, council secretaries, central administration and traditional leaders’ representatives;

(ii) the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), in the Office of the Vice-President, has organised a workshop on disaster/epidemic control and purchased 4,320 boxes of chlorine;

(iii) procured sufficient epidemic drugs which are being distributed to all provinces through the Medical Stores Limited;

(iv) the Ministry of Health continues to chair the monthly National Epidemic Prevention Preparedness and Control Committee and has, so far, held twenty-six such meetings. Provincial and district meetings have also continued being held in all the provinces;

(v) restored the water reticulation in the ablution block of Kanyama Clinic, which is being used as a cholera treatment centre;

(vi)  the Ministry of Health has continued with quarterly cholera preparedness monitoring visits to all cholera prone areas of the Northern, Luapula, Lusaka, Copperbelt and Southern provinces;

(vii) due to unsanitary conditions in bars and restaurants, the Ministry of Health took legal action against thirteen offenders in Siavonga and six in Mkushi and successfully won all the cases.

(viii)  commenced inspection of all the fifty markets in Lusaka;

(ix) out of the 194 premises inspected in Lusaka, sixty-four were closed down while thirty are under prosecution;

(x) constructed the 20 km-drainage in Kanyama;

(xi) constructed forty diversion toilets and fifteen water kiosks in Kanyama;

(xii) the Ministry of Health has attached twenty environmental health staff to the Lusaka City Council to help with sanitary inspections; and

(xiii) health education continues and the Ministry of Health, through the restructuring process, is sending the environmental health technologists to rural health centres to beef up prevention works.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, is the Government considering putting up permanent structures such as the one in Kanyama in all the districts that are prone to cholera?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I am not sure what permanent structures the hon. Member is referring to. However, if I have understood the question, the issue of ablution blocks is undertaken by respective Provincial Cholera Prevention and Preparedness committees.

Mr Speaker, let me stress that the management of cholera starts at individual level. Personal hygiene is very important. Merely washing hands would prevent one from contracting cholera. Other measures include the boiling of water, washing of hands after the use of the toilet, washing of fruits and avoiding purchasing and eating of food that has been exposed in the streets. All these measures go a long way in preventing the outbreak or contraction of cholera.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Health whether, as hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, he is in support of the application made by the people of Kabwata to the Devolution Trust Fund for the connection of their sewer system to the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Reticulation Network to avoid the recurrence of the over flooding of their septic tanks which increases the risk of a cholera outbreak. If he is, can he indicate to you and, through you, to me and the people of Kabwata, when that affirmation to the Devolution Trust Fund will be given?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, to provide a focused accurate answer to that question, I request that it be posed to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing …


Dr Chituwo: … and, appropriately, a research will be undertaken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: But you are the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Health whether the ministry has continued to distribute chlorine to basic and high schools and colleges as a way of curbing cholera and other related diarrhoeal diseases.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in fact, the distribution of chlorine is one of those preventive measures that the Government uses. However, may I stress, as I stated earlier, that issues of personal hygiene are very important. In normal circumstances, once wells and boreholes are protected, there is no need to use chlorine. However, when there is an outbreak or a suspicion of contamination of water, the environmental health technologists carry out, through district medical offices, periodic monitoring of the safety of water. If they detect any unusual increase in bacteria, then they advise that such measures be taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, through you, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Health if the newly-introduced programme of inspecting markets will be extended to schools, especially in Lusaka, where the ablution blocks are dilapidated. If so, what measures will they put in place if they discover that most of the toilets have broken down?

 Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we work very closely with the Ministry of Education because inspections are not restricted to markets or restaurants. They are carried out in schools as well. Where we find that ablution blocks are not conducive to support the pupil population, advice is given to the schools to correct the situation so that we can protect the pupils in those schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, it is clear that the Government is always prepared to manage the perennial outbreaks of cholera. I would like to find out if the Government intends to put measures in place to completely eradicate the outbreaks of cholera because it is within the Government’s powers to do so.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the Government would like cholera to be eradicated completely. However, one has to bear in mind that there is a chain in the causation of cholera. Many players have to do their part in order to eradicate it. On our part, we will ensure that those basics are available, but we are also asking and appealing to the population to also play its part.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, through you, I would like to take advantage of this opportunity and ask the Acting hon. Minister of Health, who is also the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, whether the Ministry of Health in conjunction with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is considering banning plastic packaging which contributes a lot to clogging of drainages in the country.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in the Budget Address presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, it is clearly stated that we are moving towards the issue of banning the use of plastic packaging. It can be recalled that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, in his speech, mentioned the fact that there is increased tax on imported plastic packaging as a way of discouraging the use of plastic products. This is because, as we know, they clog the drains and, as a result, there is water stagnation. They are also not biodegradable which makes it difficult for the drainages to drain water to where it is supposed to be. Therefore, with time and collectively, we will be monitoring how the control of this environmental menace from plastic items will fair. In due course, I am sure that will be shared with the august House.

I thank you, Sir.





The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make my statement on the Citizens Economic Empowerment Bill, 2010. I wish to express my gratitude to your Committee for its dedicated efforts during the consultations and preparations of the report on the proposed amendments to the Bill.

Sir, recognising that the citizens’ empowerment requires a comprehensive and deliberate set of interventions, the Government established the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act No. 9 of 2006. The CEEC was mandated to facilitate the empowering of citizens through various interventions among which is the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF), a mechanism to providing affordable finance to our citizens who, ordinarily, would not access financing from our financial institutions.

Sir, the current amendments to the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act seek to regularise the management and administrative practices regarding the fund and embrace the recommendations of the Business Licensing Reforms Committee pertaining to the definition of prospective beneficiaries to the CEEF.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members may be aware that according to Section 30 of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act, 2006, the administration and management of the CEEF is a preserve of fund managers and financial institutions. This requirement, however, caused the Government and the commission significant challenges in making the fund operational. We observed a conflict of interests between the financial institutions and the intentions of the fund.

Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that the interest rates in the financial institutions are high and expecting these financial institutions to manage and disburse cheaper funds than their own posed a significant challenge.

Sir, furthermore, the cost associated with using intermediary institutions proved prohibiting. Rather than engaging in an unending cycle of negotiations with financial institutions, the Government, therefore, proceeded to put in place interim measures to get the money to the people who needed it. Disbursement got underway and, at the moment, the commission has disbursed over K111 billion to various citizen categories. It is these administrative arrangements that we now seek to give legal legislative backing.

Mr Speaker, in proposing these amendments, I wish to point out that the Government will ensure that the most cost effective mechanisms are used to disburse the funds. Our intention is to ensure that more people access the fund. In this vein, the Government cannot allow a situation where the costs of making these funds available begin to overshadow our desire to make more funds available to the citizens. The commission will, where possible, make use of the financial institutions and fund managers. These amendments also give the commission the leverage to effectively negotiate terms with the fund managers and financial institutions. It is difficult to negotiate effectively if the other party knows that you do not have an option, but to accept their offer.

Mr Speaker, the second amendment refers to the definition of who the beneficiaries of the fund can be. As members may be aware, the Act does not explicitly include citizens working in groups as well as co-operatives. The Government is of the view that it is prudent that the scope be widened to include the targeted citizens, groups of citizens and co-operatives so that access can be broadened. You will appreciate that, in our present credit culture, and in particular, the category of citizens targeted in the Act, it is much easier to collect funds from persons working within a group. In a group or co-operatives, we can take advantage of peer pressure and community referencing.

Mr Speaker, this approach will allow groups to access funds. It also allows individuals to access funds for programmes they would otherwise not be able to access on their own. We have also used this model in some projects and are satisfied that it works well. Other financial institutions such as micro financing institutions also use the same group approach to lending and commendable results have been achieved.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, in its report, recommended that the commission intensifies its publicity programmes to persuade more people to apply for assistance. The commission recognises that national sensitisation, public outreach and publicity play a critical role in informing citizens about the empowerment programmes.

Sir, in this regard, the commission will hype its outreach activities in order to increase visibility, public awareness, understanding, support of the fund and its programme among Zambians. Such measures will include dissemination of information through mass media such as the community radio, television, stakeholder engagements, public fora, production and distribution of various informational materials.

Mr Speaker, I now look forward to the support of the Members of this House that the Bill be approved by Parliament in order to regularise the management and administrative practices pertaining to the fund as well as provide more clarity on the prospective beneficiaries of the fund.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate on the Citizens Economic Empowerment (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 37 of 2010. The Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour was privileged to be assigned the duty of considering the Bill in detail. The Report of your Committee has already been circulated and I have no doubt that hon. Members have thoroughly read it.

Sir, the Bill before the House seeks to amend the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act of 2006 with the purpose of broadening the categories of beneficiaries and changing the administration of the CEEF. I will, therefore, restrict my debate to these two issues.

Broadening the Categories of Targeted Beneficiaries

Mr Speaker, your Committee observed that the amendment is meant to make the provisions of the Principal Act more explicit rather than introducing new provisions. While appreciating the amendment, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry is advised that more targeted beneficiaries will seek the services of the fund if the CEEC adequately markets itself and its presence is felt in the remotest places. The amendment will, on paper, ensure that a large segment of society is captured. However, on the ground, the physical presence is what matters.

Changing the Administration of the Empowerment Fund

Mr Speaker, it is saddening that the commission, financial institutions and fund managers have failed to partner to administer the CEEF as provided for in the Principal Act. Your Committee, therefore, finds the amendment progressive in that the commission should not be constrained to perform its functions because of the failure to agree on modalities with financial institutions and the fund managers. Some stakeholders also raised a number of issues as reflected in the Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is cognisant of the fact that the current legislation does not permit the commission to administer the fund on its own. Therefore, some of the observations will be taken as lessons to be learnt when this Bill is passed by this august House.

Mr Speaker, however, your Committee is concerned that the commission, by administering the fund on its own, may devote so much effort on the fourth empowerment pillar, which is the access to finance. In the process, this may result in the commission turning itself into a huge bureaucracy and consuming a considerable portion of the same resources meant for empowerment.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry provides adequate supervision on the commission to ensure that:

(a) it continues to work with and engage the fund managers and financial institutions to partner with it in administering the fund. The commission should, therefore, work hand-in-hand with other financial institutions which already have a wider branch network. Only when these efforts fail should the commission administer the fund;

(b) the commission does not transform itself into an unmanageable institution for purposes of administering the fund;

(c) the regulations on the operations of the fund include the establishment of an Evaluation Committee whose composition should include, among others, various categories of stakeholders;

(d) evaluation exercises on the operations of the commission and the fund are conducted at reasonable intervals to prevent it from taking the route of previous empowerment programmes such as the Credit Organisation of Zambia, Village Industry Service and Small Industry Development Organisation; and

(e) annual reports are submitted to Parliament on time.

Mr Speaker, your Committee finds the Bill progressive and urges this House to support the Citizens Economic Empowerment (Amendment) Bill.

Mr Speaker, I wish, on behalf of the members of your Committee, to thank you and Office of the Clerk for the support that was rendered to us when considering the Bill. I further wish to thank all the stakeholders for their co-operation and for making both written and oral submissions at short notice.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I stand to support this Bill.

Mr Speaker, it is heartening to see that the CEEC will now operate legally. Even without legal backing, the commission used to disburse funds. The question now is how will this be done? I think that it is proper that the Government conceded and brought the Bill to normalise the situation.

Mr Speaker, when the President came to this House, he complained about the CEEC being slow. Now that they have been given enough power, I believe that they will be able to disburse more funds. After all, if they do not do well, they will only have themselves to blame. 

Mr Speaker, there is no way banks will agree to work with an organisation outside their control. A lot of money has been channelled through banks to Zambians and none of these programmes has succeeded.

Mr Speaker, in the case of the Irrigation Fund, it was tossed from one bank to the other and it was very difficult for Zambians to access it. Now that the CEEF will be for irrigation and other agriculture purposes, we expect the commission to act quickly and serve its purpose and, hopefully, many Zambians will benefit therefrom. It should empower Zambians so that as we talk about the Vision 2030 and Zambia becoming a middle-income country, the benefit should go to the people.

Mr Speaker, I would like to caution that while this commission has been given these powers, it should look at all parts of Zambia. We do not want a situation where certain parts of the country get more disbursements than others. The commission must be made aware that even though they have disbursed a lot of funds, there are many more areas that have not received any of this money. We would like to see them operate freely now that they have been given the legal mandate to disburse funds. We look forward to their good work and, hopefully, Zambia will move on to the promised middle-income bracket.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, in supporting this Bill, I would like to say that, as Zambians, we must rethink how we can be participants in the economic development of the nation. This is critical even as we begin to harmonise the Fifth National Development Plan and look at what is lacking among us to propel national development together as Zambians.

Mr Speaker, it is critical for citizens to begin to diversify to reach the millennium development goals (MDGs). As long as we are not participating, we will not get anywhere. We should not allow a situation where we allow other nationalities to participate in this fund. We must begin to protect the Zambian interest and to see that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was emphasising the importance of ensuring that this commission looks at the interest of the Zambians. All of us should understand that the many social problems we face in this nation are because of our lack of participation in the revenue base of the nation. I was emphasising that in view of this background, it is important that Zambian nationals are encouraged to participate in the economic development of the nation.

Mr Speaker, the budget allocation to the commission is not adequate enough to meet this challenge. All of us must begin to accept that an allocation of K40 billion to this important tool that can develop this country is not enough. This is non-political. We must agree that this allocation is inadequate and increase it so that more people can benefit from this fund. If we do not increase the allocation, we shall bring corruption to the commission. There will be many people chasing the little money allocated. We will make officers amenable to corruption because they will be looking at faces and what they can offer. 

Mr Speaker, the empowerment fund is a very good policy direction from this Government. I must commend them for having introduced it. This is the way we must think and go as a nation.

Mr Speaker, if we are looking at exploring oil in my friend, Hon. Kakoma’s constituency, for instance, …


Mr L. J. Mulenga: … how can you borrow K1 billion and expect to develop something? You cannot. This is non-political. It is a call for the Zambian nationals to take off their jackets of dependency and begin to run their own businesses. We must begin to get the nationals to run their own businesses rather than depending on handouts. Fuel handouts must come to an end. Now is the time for us to say we are Zambians and sing the National Anthem, proud and free.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, in supporting the Bill, I would like to make three brief comments.

Mr Speaker, through the commission, the Government must ease the regulations of accessing the funds in order to benefit the majority of the people who are unable to access these funds because of the problems of filling in the forms and other related problems.

Secondly, the programme should be more popularised so that it can reach far and wide.

 Thirdly, this programme must be more transparent. As the previous speaker said, this programme is a national programme and, therefore, we should remove any suspicions of politics from it because this is a very important programme that is beyond politics.

Mr Speaker, I would like to end by saying that the Government should assess the performance of this programme in the past one year so that the weaknesses can be improved upon to come up with a very good programme to benefit the majority of Zambians.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank all hon. Members who have passionately debated in support of the Bill.

 I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committee to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Friday, 5th November, 2010.





Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Chituwo) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr Simbao)): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2 on page 7, in line 8 by the insertion, immediately after the word “means” of the words “disease or injury contracted or suffered as a result of one’s employment or.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 12 – (Composition of Health and Safety Committee)

Dr Chituwo: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 12, on page 12, in lines 13 and 14 by the deletion of paragraph (b) and the substitution therefor of the following:

“(b) be chaired by a person elected from amongst the employee representatives or by the employer or the senior most member of management on an alternating basis.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 12, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 13, 14 and 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 16 – (Duties of employers to employees)

Dr Chituwo: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16, on page 15:

(i) after line 12 by the insertion of the following new paragraph:

“(h) provided for measures to deal with emergencies and accidents, including adequate first-aid arrangements”;

(ii) in lines 13 and 19

by the renumbering of paragraphs (h) and (i) as (i) and (j); respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 16, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 and 27 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 28 – (Appeals Board)

Dr Chituwo: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 28, on page 24:

(i) after line 32

by the insertion, immediately after sub-clause (2), of the following new sub-clause:

“(3) The Appeals Board may appoint technical experts to assist it in the performance of its functions under this Act.”; and

(ii) in line 33

 by the renumbering of sub-clause (3) as sub-clause (4).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 28, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 and 39 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear! Walya, iwe!


Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Bretton Woods Agreements (Amendment) Bill, 2010

Third Reading on Thursday, 21st October, 2010.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Occupational Health and Safety Bill, 2010.

Report Stage on Thursday, 21st October, 2010.




(Debate resumed)

The Minister for Presidential Affairs (Mr Mukuma): Mr Speaker, before the House adjourned yesterday, I was saying that in 2008, President Banda inherited a regime that was facing unemployment and job losses in the mines due to falling copper prices. He also had to contend with the impact of the loss of the late President, may his soul rest in peace, and the negative impact of the global financial meltdown.

However, Sir, he took bold steps to prevent economic decline, attracted new investments to all key sectors, created new jobs and managed to improve the economic performance of the country. The remarkable economic and social achievement that Zambia has recorded over the past two years which the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, ably highlighted in his address to Parliament has surpassed all our expectations.

Mr Speaker, this outstanding performance gives credit to the good policies of the MMD and hardworking Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukuma: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to salute President Banda for demonstrating that he is a high performer and suitable to lead this country. He has continued to maintain peace and unity in this country and the economic outlook for Zambia is brighter than ever. These achievements are not an accident, but a result of careful planning and prudent economic management. Therefore, he is the right choice for presidency in the 2011 elections.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, when contributing to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Speech, I stated that he had come to this House to give a non- committal campaign speech. I also said that he had come here to sound a bandora so as to inform the nation that the election time had come.

Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning came to present the 2011 Budget, I discovered that those of us who were thinking that the President had come to give a campaign speech were vindicated. I say so because it was the first time the hon. Minister was itemising the number of schools the Government had built among other projects. It was a political speech and this made me think that the campaign had already started.


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is for this reason I am saying that the theme of the 2011 Budget Address which is, “A people’s Budget, from a People’s Government” clearly shows that they are using it as a campaign tool. Everybody should look at this Budget Speech from that angle because the campaigns have already started.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said, in his Budget Address, that the President has saved a lot of jobs in the mining sector. What jobs has he saved when a lot of people are languishing on the streets of Mufulira and the rest of the Copperbelt Province? It is important to understand that mining is the lifeline of this country and that it is supposed to employ 50 per cent of the country’s workforce. Those from the right keep saying that things are different from the picture we portray, and yet people are suffering and some are dying because of hunger. It is important that we look at issues as they are.

Mr Speaker, the people out there will appreciate you when they see things working as you state them to be, but when they see a difference, they will continue to complain. Mining is supposed to be our lifeline and is supposed to give us tangible results. Does it mean anything to Zambians when there is increased production but, at the end of the day, there is nothing that they are getting out of it? Why should we talk about increased production and how the status quo will change because revenue collected from mining will support this Budget, and yet things are going to remain the same? Let me state that mining will not support this Budget.  I agree that the mining companies raise about 70 per cent of the direct foreign exchange for the country, but when the actual revenue we are collecting is only 1 per cent of the total earnings of the mines. What is it to us if we are only getting this percentage as a country? We are not getting what we are supposed to be getting.

Mr Speaker, when our children grow up and look at the environment, they will just see open pits and underground mines, but no results on the surface of what came out from the ground. Do you think they will praise you for that? They will not. It is important to look at these issues seriously. The Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) has failed to collect taxes from the mining companies and has not put a mechanism in place to ensure that we collect such types of revenue. It is important that when making a budget, we also make a provision to help us to collect enough revenue for the country. Lumping together our production figures will not help matters. We can easily say that Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Munali Mine  will increase production, but what is our benefit? 

Unless we adequately follow up these revenues and the money in production, the Zambian people will not benefit and we will not get value from our mines. Unless somebody sitting here demonstrates to me how this mining will support growth in 2011, from which we are not benefiting , and how the Munali and KCM production growth will contribute positively to the future of the Zambian children, who are not getting anything therefrom. I do not see how the country is benefiting.

Mr Speaker, I want somebody to help me understand how windfall tax is not better than the variable tax. We talk about the windfall tax in the mining sector because we believe that you can only strike iron when it is hot. It is important that we strike this iron even in the economy by collecting the windfall tax. That is why we are saying that this copper should not just be leaving the country using our roads. Look at how our roads are damaged. The infrastructure on the Copperbelt is in a deplorable state.

Therefore, we are saying that we do not want to kneel before the Government, begging for money to rehabilitate damaged infrastructure. Instead, we are asking the Government to bring back the windfall tax so that we can have a lot of resources around. It is really important that we look at these issues positively because, year in and year out, we keep talking about the same things.

Mr Speaker, when I looked at the cover of this Budget Speech, I knew that there was a big problem. The pictures on the cover depict a scenario that mining is what will support infrastructure development such as road construction and various projects on the land, but that it is only the children of the rich hon. Ministers and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) cadres who will continue looking well-nourished and continue to be supported by this Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Question!

Mr Mukanga: There are a lot of children out there who are seen without shoes. Meanwhile, the leadership of the MMD is busy planning how it will go flying around and enjoying in those pleasure resorts without feeling any remorse and without doing anything on agriculture which is much talked about.


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when selecting pictures to put on the cover page of a Budget Speech, I would like to urge the Government to do it well because pictures tell a story. My explanation of the pictures on the cover page is the story I have deduced. How can a child, who is about two years, flash the MMD symbol?

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Mukanga: What has that got to do with the Budget? Unless children are taught how to flash the MMD symbol by their fathers because they are the ones that can teach them, they cannot flash the symbol when getting a picture for the entire Zambia to see. If the father of that child was a member of the Patriotic Front (PF) or the pact, the child would have flashed the symbols accordingly. Thus, since the MMD has set an example, its members should not complain when the pact takes over and flashes its symbol.


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I have been here for more than four years. In 2008, the theme of the Budget was “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”. In 2009, it was “Enhancing Growth Through Competitiveness and Diversification” and in 2010, it was, “Wealth Creation to Sustainable Growth” and I did not see all these things happening. The theme for 2011 is, “A People’s Budget, from a People’s Government.”


Mr Mukanga: However, what government is being talked about when the pact has the majority support?


Mr Mukanga: What Budget are you talking about? I would like to state that whatever has been written in the Budget Speech and the blowing of the trumpet about doing well is not the case. They are just vuvuzelas.


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, let me demonstrate this by giving percentages. By function, the general Public Service allocation was at 31.7 per cent of the Budget in 2009. In 2010, it is at 31.8 per cent. In the 2011 Budget, by comparison, it will be at 28.5 per cent. Is this not a reduction? There has been a reduction in percentage terms. Therefore, I would like to inform the Government that it is under this allocation where the money to fund the councils comes from. The bulk of it is under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Speaker, let me cite an example of Mufulira Council, which, at 31 per cent allocation to the General Public Service, was allocated only K550 million for service delivery. This included the provision of garbage collection, working on the parks and roads. However, if you went to Mufulira, you would find the roads and everything else in a bad state. This is because K550 million is nothing. If you divided it by 200,000 people, you would be talking about allocating K2, 750 per person for the whole year.

Mr Speaker, how can the councils perform when the houses from which they were supposed to raise funds were sold? When the councils try to collect rates, the Government is up in arms saying that the councils, under the Opposition, peg their rates at high prices and people protest. Hence, the councils are not performing well because of the leadership.

Mr Speaker, it is important that the leadership looks at issues positively if it is to affect people positively and that is not being done at the moment. I am, therefore, wondering if, indeed, this is a people’s Budget when it will burden the people even more. Will this Budget be looked at as a people’s Budget when the councils decide to increase licence fees? The answer is no.

Mr Speaker, even when there is a slight increase in domestic debt cancellation, are we going to pay off all the retirees? The answer is no. Therefore, how people-driven is this Budget? Is this Government going to stop misusing money by creating by-elections all over? The answer is no because this Government will continue spending on by-elections.

Mr Speaker, the Budget Speech tells me about decentralisation coming in 2012. What the Government is saying is that we must first vote for it and then it will decide. However, people will not vote for this Government so that the policy of decentralisation can be implemented because it has no political will.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: It is important that we look at these issues positively and see that this Government is not up to any good.

Mr Speaker, let me cite an example of the allocation to Economic Affairs. In 2009, 21.1 per cent was allocated, in 2010, 19.8 per cent was allocated and 25.6 per cent has been allocated in the 2011 Budget. It is a good increase, but there is a problem because there has been a reduction from 7 per cent to 6 per cent in the agriculture sector. If it were the pact, it would have tried to stabilise this sector …


Mr Mukanga: … by sustaining the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to ensure that things are working.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mukanga: However, what the Government is doing is the opposite. How do we sustain this bumper harvest if the Government is reducing the allocation in percentage terms? How will we store our maize? By the way, the maize, which is the produce of the bumper harvest, is slowly being lost because there is a lot of wastage, deterioration and no protection. The Government said that to curb this hurdle, it would put tarpaulins over the maize, but this has not been done in some areas. That is why we are losing this bumper harvest.

It is important that we put the resources where they are supposed to be. If I were you, dear friends, I would have used the bumper harvest to ensure that the FRA becomes independent rather than giving it money every year.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the environment. In the 2011 Budget, 0.6 has been allocated to environmental protection while, in 2010, 0.8 per cent had been allocated thereto. The Government is forgetting one important aspect. We are dealing with uranium, which is a very sensitive mineral and needs to be handled cautiously. If not handled properly, the effect of uranium can be worse than that of the sulphur dioxide we are experiencing on the Copperbelt. When inhaled, uranium compromises the state of a person’s kidneys, liver and other internal organs and the person eventually dies. Why should we expose the Zambian people to such a hazardous substance just for investors to make money? We need to put serious measures in place to protect the people.

Mr Malama: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is important that we address these issues and I am not just politicking. I am telling the people on your right what is supposed to be done. If they do not know, uranium has a half-life and six isotopes and, therefore, needs to be addressed with all the seriousness it deserves.


Mr Mukanga: The Government might be aware of all these facts, but it is not considering them seriously. I want to repeat that it is important that the people are protected. We should be wary of the briefcase businessmen and women who come as investors. Our people need to be protected from those who come to make money in this country because, at the moment, we do not seem to be serious about this. I expected a lot more funding for environmental protection than is the case. The funds that have been provided for environmental protection in next year’s Budget will not enable us assist our people.

Mr Speaker, I would now like to comment on education. The budget allocations to education in 2009 and 2010 were at 15 and 17.2 per cent respectively. In the 2011 Budget, this allocation has been increased to 18.6 per cent. It is a slight increase, but we have not reached the 20 per cent requirement of the Cairo Protocol.

Furthermore, there has not even been an equitable distribution of resources under this sector. According to the number of schools that are under construction, as mentioned by the hon. Minister in his speech, some provinces have eighteen and others have two. Some have five schools while others have three. There is a need for fairness to be seen in how schools to be constructed are distributed across various provinces.

Mr Malama: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, owing to the way the Government is distributing wealth in this country, I am afraid that some hon. Members on your right will not come back to this House after the elections next year and I am telling them this as a senior hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mukanga: I have been here longer than most of them. If they are not serious about the manner in which they are distributing resources in the country, Zambians will have a bone to pick with them. Like Hon. Munkombwe said, some will be hon. Members of Parliament for only five years. It is, therefore, important that the national cake is distributed equally.

Mr Speaker, as regards health, the Abuja Declaration requires that 15 per cent of our National Budget be allocated to this sector. However, we are only at 8.2 per cent of the 2011 Budget. In the 2009 and 2010 budgets, it was at 10.7 and 11.9 per cent respectively. However, in the 2011 Budget, it has been reduced to 8.2 per cent. How can we devote only 8.2 per cent of our national resources to such an important sector like health? Why should the Government sign international protocols and fail to honour them?

Mr Speaker, even with an allocation of 11.9 per cent for 2010, there are no drugs and blankets in hospitals. At Ronald Ross Hospital in Mufulira, if one was to be admitted, today, they would need to go to the hospital with their own blankets. We have already given this hospital K50 million to buy blankets, but it is the Government that should be doing this …

Mr Malama: Yes!

Mr Mukanga: … because this is its responsibility. It is you (pointing at hon. Government Members) who are supposed to provide these services.


Mr Mukanga: It is your responsibility and you are in those offices to perform and not to sit in air conditioned …

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member will address the Chair.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, Ronald Ross Hospital has no beddings. How does the Government expect patients to be cured in good time? The patients who are discharged from the hospital carry diseases with them back to their homes through blankets because they have to use their own beddings. This means that if a father was to be discharged, he would then pass on a disease to his wife and children. Therefore, as leaders, we are not doing what we are supposed to be doing. It is important that we look at these issues seriously because Ronald Ross Hospital does not even have wheelchairs.

Mr Speaker, we are not against mobile hospitals, but against bringing them amidst the prevailing unfavourable conditions in this country. Why should we bring mobile hospitals, and yet roads are in deplorable conditions such that vehicles cannot manoeuvre without breaking down?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Malama: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This is a misuse of resources because the Government can, instead, use the money to be spent on mobile hospitals, to build health posts and ensuring that it recruits and trains more health personnel. However, what is happening now is an indication that the priorities of my dear friends are misplaced.

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that I am urging this Government to reconsider its priorities so that the people paying taxes can get value for their money, which is not the case at the moment. This is why the people out there are not happy with the Government and are saying that, come 2011, the Ruling Party will be put in its place. It is important for the Government to change, but it is even too late for that as there are only about eight months remaining before the next elections.

Mr Speaker, I have given this advice on several occasions and, sometimes, I feel that it is not even necessary to continue debating on these issues and advising the Government because it does not listen.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Whenever an hon. Member of the Opposition debates and tells the Government what is supposed to be done, it offers lip service to the issues raised and does nothing. However, the time has come for it to wake up because if it does not, it will find itself in the archives.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Sir, thank you for the opportunity to debate this Motion. I only have four issues to discuss. The first one is on roads.


Mr Mooya: I always talk about this because this is my field of expertise and I must say that I was happy to see that resources for road construction had been doubled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: However, I would like to see that the K3 trillion allocation to this sector is actually released. I am saying so because when we had a workshop in 2007, the Road Development Agency (RDA) informed us that K1.5 trillion would be released to this sector, but only K800 billion, which was just about half of its budget allocation that year, was released. This recurred in 2008 and 2009. Therefore, despite being happy with the K3 trillion allocation to roads, I would like to emphasise that all of this money should be released by the end of next year.

Mr Speaker, the construction sector is contributing a lot to the growth of the economy and, therefore, I am not happy at all with the tax levied on deformed bars. It is in that light that I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to drop the 25 per cent tax on deformed bars. Why should we increase tax in an industry that is doing so well?

Mr Speaker, from my understanding, deformed bars are used as reinforcement in construction. This is the steel that is used in the construction of bridges and multi-storey houses. However, a tax has been levied on the bars, and yet we want infrastructure in this country to develop. This 25 per cent on deformed bars is too much. Being an expert in this field, I am requesting the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to drop it because it will discourage people who want to invest in infrastructure. This sector is doing so well and, therefore, I urge the hon. Minister to get revenue from alternative sources.


Mr Mooya: Where? You look around.


Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the beauty of deformed bars is that they have very strong tensile strength compared to round bars. When you use these bars, you use less steel because it is so strong and, in the long run, is actually cheaper. This is why I am asking the Government to look into the issue of the 25 per cent tax.

The other issue is about the road licence fee which has been raised by 50 per cent. I know it is a source of revenue, but it is better to reduce and improve the remittance of the fuel levy. I have said, many times before, that the route is too long and porous. Let the fuel levy go straight to the agency when it is collected from the oil companies and not through Control 99 because there are a lot of leakages. If the route is made shorter, there will not be a need to increase the road licence fee by 50 per cent.

Now, let me talk about education. Married teachers are posted to various schools upon completion of training and not where their spouses are. They are married, but are separated. There are about three male teachers in my constituency who have been separated from their wives for three years now. This is not good. I was given the impression that this would only last for two years after which they would be reunited. I would not like to live without my partner for more than a year and so, three years, I think, is too much. I wrote about two or three letters to the hon. Minister of Education concerning this matter, but there has been no response and no acknowledgement of its receipt. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister to look into this issue and correct the situation.

The other issue is about the CDF. The Government has proposed new CDF guidelines. I have had a chance to read through them, but I am not happy because the hon. Members’ authority has been taken away. Therefore, I suggest to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to call for a workshop and educate hon. Members about the new guidelines. My worry is that if this goes through, hon. Members will be undermined. The authority has been given to councils and CDF committees. One of the guidelines is to allow elections to be conducted by the respective councils. Once this is done, it will be very dangerous, especially that hon. Members know their constituents very well. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to see to it that hon. Members have more say on the CDF. After all, this was mooted by hon. Members sometime back. I request, once again, the hon. Minister to call for a workshop so that hon. Members go through the draft for the betterment of the country.

Finally, Mr Speaker, let me talk about the Mongu/Kalabo Road. The Republican President went to flag off the resumption of this road’s works. However, there are two lessons to learn from this. The project was first launched in 2002. The waters of the Zambezi River can be conquered or tamed if hydrological and geological investigations are carried out. However, it seems this was not done the first time it was launched in 2002, but I am pretty sure, now, the Chinese who will work on it have carried out these investigations. The project should be completed because this will be the only gateway to the western part of this country. I appeal to the Government to make sure that they work on it because money has been provided for this project.

A good example that can be given is what happened recently in Chile. Miners were trapped for close to two months, but they managed to bring them to surface and so this can also be done. We should do it. The only bad part is that a lot of money was wasted from 2002 to 2005 or 2006. I remember the Government spent about US$39 million and that money has gone down the drain. It was washed away by the Zambezi River. I have said, many times before, that we should not be wasteful. It is important, during the preliminaries, to use experts so that they guide us properly. Let us not use politics. This project should have taken three years had we used experts at the beginning. A lot of money has been spent on it and more than K1 trillion will be borrowed therefor. The Republican President informed this House that K5 billion would be spent per kilometre. However, the Mongu/Kalabo Road will take K60 billion per kilometre. This is very sad. That is why all these factors should have been considered at the beginning.

With these few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important Motion. I cannot really see you because of the tusk in-between. With your permission, Sir, let me move to the other microphone.

Dr Musonda moved to the next microphone.

Mr Speaker: Order!

What has happened?  Is that your correct position? Is your microphone not working?

Dr Musonda:  Mr Speaker, it is working, but I cannot see you because of the tusk in-between.


Mr Speaker: Alright, go ahead. I can see you. Do not worry.

You may continue.


Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for this very articulate Budget. I have listened to so many arguments about it, but I think this one is very good. Others have likened it to a campaign. However, I do not see anything wrong for a working Government to campaign so as to continue ruling. I think the Budget is fine even if it is a campaign item as long as it will be implemented.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I will zero in on one issue which I hold very dear to my heart and that is the issue of health.

Mr Speaker, I would like to point out His Excellency the President’s consistency in his addresses to the House since 2009 when I came to this House. In the 2009 Address, he mentioned that he was very determined to ensure the implementation of the vision of the Ministry of Health to introduce health care services as a way of bringing health as close to the people as possible.

Hon. Member: Yaba!

Dr Musonda: In his last address, he announced that the Government had procured nine mobile hospitals.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, this is an area about which I have heard so many mixed feelings, especially from my colleagues on your left, but I would like to share with them some of the advantages of the mobile hospitals.

Mr Speaker, when a policy matter is considered, it goes through what is known as a strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats (SWOT) analysis. This means that an activity has to be considered for its strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

Mr Speaker, I have noticed that most of my colleagues on your left, who have debated the issue of mobile health services, are only concentrating on the weaknesses. This is not right.

Mr Speaker, we represent constituencies that are comparatively different as regards the provision of equity of health.  Most people in urban areas in this country have very good health services compared to the people in the rural areas.

Sir, one of the targets of the Ministry of Health is to ensure that health centres are within 5 km reach for every person who needs to access health facilities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, this has already been achieved in Lusaka where almost every person lives within about 5 km of a health centre. However, in the rural areas, people live as far as 100 km away from the nearest health centre.


Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I browsed the internet and read through other literature in your library. There does not seem to be a proper definition of what mobile health service is supposed to be.

Mobile health services have been used in many countries, including the United States of America. At the moment, they use the mobile health services, particularly for people who do not have health insurance. They use different means of delivering mobile health services such as bicycles or boats, depending on the location. We have a sample from Saro of a very good bicycle which is more like a motorbike that can carry patients from one place to the other and carry health personnel from a health centre to where people are.

Mr Speaker, it is my hope that this working Government, with this policy direction from his Excellency the President, will close up the gap. We need to supplement what the health centres provide by reaching people who are not able to get to the health centres.

As the hon. Minister of Health presents the policy statement during the budget considerations, I am hopeful that he will give us some of the ways in which we have budgeted for the implementation part. I am sure the implementation part of the mobile health services is what is making our colleagues on your left very jittery.

Sir, some people think that there are no roads in areas intended for the mobile health services. Mr Speaker, it is dangerous to be myopic particularly when one’s sight is very normal, but he/she tends to look in one direction without looking on the other sides.

Mr Speaker, given that the Great East Road is under rehabilitation and I want to go to Nakonde, how many constituencies will I have passed through? They are many. If I make a turn to go to the Luapula Province, through the Tuta Road, which is under rehabilitation, how many constituencies will I have passed through? They are many. Similarly, if I took a trip to Livingstone, how many constituencies will I have covered? Therefore, how many people would benefit from the mobile hospitals if they were procured and have to use the roads that already exist?
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, wrong for people to give the impression that we do not have good roads and thus cannot have mobile hospitals. The road network we have, at the moment, is not bad because we all use it when you call us to Parliament because we pass through many areas. Therefore, if mobile hospitals were procured, many people who do not have access can access medical services.

The most important matter about mobile health services in Zambia that people want to forget is that they have been in existence for a long time. I will cite three or four examples.

Mr Speaker, in 2009 in the Southern Province, Zambia was given an award by the United Nations for provision of mobile health services. Permit me to cite a quotation from what the UN said:

“The United Nations recognises the life-saving value of mobile health services and bestowed upon Zambia, through the Ministry of Health, the 2009 United Nations Public Service Award, following submissions of the Itezhi-tezhi Integrated Community Mobile Voluntary Counselling and Testing.”

Mr Speaker, the people of the Southern Province, most of whom are on your left, have noticed how effective mobile health services have proved.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Flying Doctor Services has been with us for a long time. At one time, when I was in the Middle Bench, there was a heated question about why this Government had not provided more planes to ensure the continuance of the service. That was confirmation by the hon. Members on your left that mobile health services are still very valuable to the country.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: There are many other mobile health services that are being provided at the moment such as the Voluntary Counselling and Testing (VCT) and anti-retroviral treatment (ART). Most health centres do not have the capacity to have a doctor, hence doctors move from hospitals to administer ARVs to rural health centres. That is one of the examples of mobile health services.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, there is another example I would like to give from this document, which I will lay on the Table, of how successful mobile health services have been in this country.  This activity was carried out in 2008 in Chingola.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: If you look at the cover of this pamphlet, you will see a lot of our grandmothers and the hon. Minister of the Copperbelt Province, Hon. Mbulakulima.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: There are also some hon. Members of Parliament on the left, such as the hon. Member for Chililabombwe. I also appear there as this was during my time in the Civil Service when we organised a mobile surgical eye camp.

Mr Speaker, preliminary information in the document says that 120,000 people in Zambia could be blind and that 60,000 of these are as a result of cataracts which can be operated on. Such people are there in our villages and have never even seen their children. They have even forgotten how their wives look like because they have been blind for over twenty years.

Hon. Government Members: And husbands.

Dr Musonda: Whichever.


Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Chingola District Health Management Team, in conjunction with co-operating partners from India as well as the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), sponsored an eye camp in Chingola some time back. A question was actually asked in this House on how much was spent and how the activity was conducted.

Mr Speaker, 3,000 people were screened while 370 persons were able to see after being operated on. As you can see from the pictures that I am holding in my hands, the people were very happy with the results of the eye camp.

Dr Musonda showed the pictures to hon. Members.


Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, despite the Opposition hon. Members of Parliament condemning the mobile hospitals, what impact would we create in the communities of people who have asked us to represent them here, if we were to use these hospitals to reach about 60,000 people who are unable to see? Mobile health services are a package which, in recent times, have been used to target people with chronic illnesses.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, we are faced with the HIV/AIDS scourge. One of the greatest illnesses affecting our women in this era of HIV/AIDS is cervical cancer which can be detected through the screening which can be provided by mobile health services.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Once we screen as many women as possible, we will be able to identify those who require treatment which they can access for free. It is wrong for the Opposition hon. Members to think that we should wait until we build more static structures for us to provide health services to the people. What if it takes us five years? The Government has continued to construct a static structure, but if it takes us five years to complete a clinic in a particular area, it means that patients will have to wait for that long to access treatment. I think that the policies of this working Government have a good direction.

Hon. Government Members; Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: In as much as the Government has continued to build health infrastructure such as health posts and clinics as well as improve hospitals countrywide, it also wants to take care of people who are suffering from chronic illnesses. Honestly, what is wrong with that? I think the people are very annoyed with those who are opposing the mobile hospitals because they are waiting for this facility.

Mr Munaile: Which people?

Dr Musonda: The people who elected us are waiting so that they can have their chronic diseases treated.

Mr Tembo: Tuka kumona ku Malole!

Dr Musonda: One of our colleagues from the Opposition argued that we have problems with maternal deaths and its related complications. This is true. Some of the complications that women are facing in the rural areas, especially those who live very far away from hospitals, include obstructed labour. For sure, obstructed labour, if not well handled, leads to permanent complications. There are a lot of women out there who have suffered from these complications. One hon. Member mentioned Vesco Vaginal Fistula (VVF) and Recto Vaginal Fistula (RVF) among many other complications.

Mr Speaker, the truth is that the women with such complications have suffered for a long time because these are chronic illness. For those who would like to learn more about these complications, I will explain more since the hon. Member used abbreviations when referring to the two complications which he identified. The complications can lead to a connection between the birth canal and urinary tract. This complication leads to a situation whereby urine goes into the birth canal such that the woman has problems to hold it in. These complications have taken root in so many women, over time, and cannot be dealt with all at once. The social and sexual lives of women who suffer from such complications are disturbed because their urine keeps coming out. Such cases are there in the villages and are waiting to be treated.

Therefore, the mobile health service is one of the ways in which people would be able to access screening and treatment whilst they wait for static health centres to be constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: There are a lot of advantages.

Mr Munaile: Ulelandafye!

Dr Musonda: I would like to correct some of the wrong impressions that have been created in this House. From the SWOT analysis point of view, mobile health services have a lot of strengths because they will have qualified staff. The crew will also involve some health staff personnel who are at lower level. Those at a lower level will benefit from this interaction with those who are qualified as knowledge sharing will be encouraged. This will help narrow the knowledge gap. Those from the lower level will greatly benefit from this knowledge sharing as they have not been able to go back to school from the time they graduated. Additionally, as the mobile team goes around various locations, there shall also be task sharing among the medical personnel. That is one of the strengths.

Sir, my colleagues on your right have continuously said that the provision of mobile health services is supposed to be a top-up measure and not a solution on its own to the problem of access to medical services. They have been saying all this despite the Government having continued with the building of more health centres. I think almost all hon. Members of Parliament have a health centre, currently, being built in their constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Musonda: I can hear some hon. Members on your left murmuring. However, my point is that, I have seen materials being delivered in various locations for the construction of health posts as promised by the hon. Minister in this House.

Mr Munaile: Imfula yalaisa!

Dr Musonda: Very soon, the construction of all the health posts under construction will be completed. Therefore, as I have already explained and with the little knowledge that I have gathered, mobile health service provision is good for the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Dr Musonda: It is an important provision, especially for the people in the rural areas because there are so many of them who have serious ailments which need to be treated.
Mr Speaker, I sneaked quietly into Chitambo Constituency over the weekend and I found a lot of people chanting along the road.


Dr Musonda: I was surprised yesterday when somebody in this House said kuya bebele. I do not know what that meant because it was not interpreted. The people in Chitambo were chanting twakana, twakana, meaning, we have refused, we have refused and nafuti, nafuti, meaning, again and again.


Dr Musonda: At first, I got scared because I thought they were very angry or something had gone wrong. When I stopped to talk to them, ...


Dr Musonda: … I learnt that they were coming from the bank where they had gone to get paid by the FRA and were rushing to go and pay for fertiliser.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: They were very happy.

Hon. Government Members; Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: I asked them why they were saying nafuti, nafuti and twakana, twakana.

They told me that they were saying that they have refused to change the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: This Government should continue. Nafuti, nafuti, means again and again and that His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, should continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members; Hear, hear!

The Chief Whip (Mr Mwaanga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to participate in the debate on the Motion on the Floor of this House.

Sir, I would like to begin by commending my colleague, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, MP, who is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for presenting what has truly been a people’s budget for a people’s Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, the MMD Party is, indeed, the people’s Government that is listening and tenaciously working on moving this country forward.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Sir, we are demonstrating tested leadership on matters of people’s welfare, primary growth sectors and all the critical sub-sectors that produce goods and services for the Republic of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, it should be understood that there is no hon. Minister of Finance, anywhere in the world, who can draw up a budget that will satisfy all the needs of a given country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: That has never happened in history and it is not about to happen now. There is also no hon. Minister of Finance who exhausts all of his or her tax revenue avenues in one budget. That does not happen either because there is something called the future.

Hon. Government Members: Tell them, Mudala!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, this Budget, which we are debating, has the propensity to unlock opportunities and trigger growth for all Zambians. This Budget shows that our country is moving towards recording even greater economic successes.

Hon. Government Members; Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, it shows that this responsible Government has not overlooked the significance of allocating resources to strategic and social sectors which greatly impact on the lives of a greater majority of our people. It should be appreciated that even in this turbulent global economic crisis, our economy has been able to register a fairly robust growth and stability.

Mr Speaker, the Government’s focus, in the 2011 Budget, is to translate the micro economic gains made, so far, into tangible benefits for the people of Zambia and to continue diversifying and reducing dependence on the mining sector. It should also be borne in mind that in the 1990s, our mining sector had ground to a halt due to the fact that there was no investment going into the mining sector. The result was that many of our mines were placed under care and maintenance. As such, we had to back track by making sure that we looked for investors to come and operate these mines by using their own money to expand and build infrastructure in these mines.

 Further, the Budget aims to promote tourism, energy projects and a livestock industry, to achieve a GDP growth of 6 per cent, reduce year end inflation to 7 per cent, limit domestic borrowing to 1.4 per cent of the GDP and maintain international reserves of, at least, four months of import cover.

Sir, in addition, the Budget seeks to reduce Public Service expenditure to below 30 per cent while significantly increasing expenditure on economic affairs, health, education and increasing allocation to the road sector and infrastructure from about K1.4 trillion to K3 trillion in 2011. This means that construction activities in the country will remain buoyant during 2011. The tourism sector has continued to represent                                                                                                                                                                 a key source of jobs for the people, particularly, in the rural areas, which justifies an allocation of K63.3 billion and another K12.8 billion for increased marketing and promotion activities of Zambia as an attractive tourism destination in the world.

Mr Speaker, there is a recognition in the Budget that manufacturing must continue to expand. The investment of over US$550 million in thirteen enterprises at the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) will increase value addition in this sector. In addition, the Government has introduced customs duty of 15 per cent on cold-rolled coils and 25 per cent on deformed bars and galvanised cold-rolled coils to promote local manufacturing and speed up diversification of the economy. It was heartening to note that the Zambia Association of Manufacturers warmly welcomed this measure because it is a way of encouraging the manufacturing sector to grow.

Mr Speaker, the communication sector now has access to the International Gateway, resulting in reduced costs of international calls. All the nine provincial centres are now connected to the fibre optic network, thereby, providing access to high speed broadband width for data transmission. This is, indeed, a commendable achievement in that it brings our country firmly into the technology era.

Mr Speaker, it is an open secret that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has faced many challenges in meeting the nation’s electricity needs. It is also a fact that there is a shortage of energy in the whole of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region. In response to these challenges, the Government has embarked on new energy generation projects such as the Kariba North Bank Extension, Kafue Gorge Lower Project, the Itezhi-tezhi Power Project and the Lunzuwa and Lusiwasi Power Extension projects which will, by the end of 2012, add another 1,085MW to the national grid. The rural people of Zambia, who constitute the majority of our citizens, will also benefit from the sixty-seven projects relating to rural electrification that have been completed so far and the twenty-four projects which are still on-going.

Mr Speaker, last year, when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announced, in his Budget Speech, that the personal tax threshold would be increased from K700,000 per month to K800,000, we heard cries from the other side of the House soliciting for it to be raised to K1 million per month. As a listening Government, we have heard their cries and decided that this threshold be increased from K800,000 per month to K1 million per month, as they demanded last year. This is a very practical way of putting more money in the pockets of our people, particularly, those who are in the lowest income brackets of our society.

Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for taking measures to reduce the country’s dependence on donor support.  He has reduced the donor component of the Budget from just under 15 per cent, this year, to just below 8 per cent next year. I hope hon. Members will join me in encouraging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to continue this trend and aim at zero- dependence on donor aid in future.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, this is not only important for us, as a country, but also for our national sovereignty and pride. It is also important for our co-operating partners to point to a country which has successfully been weaned off from donor dependency. It is a dangerous and self-defeating myth to say that our country can only develop with donor support.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Sir, reduced external Budget dependence is good for the country and our system of governance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: It is also good for our co-operating partners to point to a success story to their taxpayers, who sacrifice so much to provide aid money from their taxes, at a time when they are cutting their own budgets in the light of the on-going global financial crisis. No Zambian should feel proud to be handcuffed to donor support forever.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Sir, there is, in fact, evidence which shows that there is increasing donor fatigue in the donor countries to giving this type of aid and they are looking for success stories of countries that can be weaned off this donor basket.

Mr Speaker, we recognise that there will be developmental as well as tax revenue collection and administration challenges. We also recognise that there will be challenges in implementing projects and accommodating the many competing, but equally deserving needs of the people as well as determining priorities for ourselves. This is normal and expected. It is not the emotional speeches and romantic views, that I have heard from some hon. Members on the other side of the House, which will eradicate poverty or improve the quality of life of the people of Zambia, but economic prudence and management which will provide the much-needed relief to the people.

Mr Speaker, we are cognisant of the dangers of over-simplification of economic and budgetary issues and the pedestrian views …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: …which we often hear, particularly from hon. Members on the other side.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, on this side of the House, we have serious work to do.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: We have work to continue improving the quality of life of our citizens. We must all have the discipline to desist from politicising everything we do and say. This Budget has clearly shown the Zambian people that this MMD Government, under the very able leadership of President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, is serious and determined to take this country forward.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: We want historians to record, when the time comes, that we did our best when it mattered the most and that we prepared the ground for future generations to say, with pride, that the best is yet to come. We shall continue to despise those who are competing for insulting space in the media …


Mr Mwaanga: … because that will not take the country anywhere. We want them to compete for development ideas …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaanga: … that will benefit our people and grow the economy so that there is more to share and create jobs for the people.

Mr Speaker, we, on this side of the House, will remain committed and focused on this very noble task. With this contribution, I commend this Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Luapula Province (Dr Kawimbe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate of the 2011 Budget. I shall not attempt to comment on every aspect of the Budget Speech because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning took nearly two hours to read it to this august House. However, I only have twenty minutes in which to make my contribution. I will, therefore, restrict my contribution to reflecting on the following:

(i) the influence of our past on our way of thinking today;

(ii) support to the agriculture sector; and

(iii) unemployment.

Mr Speaker, the 2011 Budget has been entitled “A People’s Budget, from a People’s Government”. I totally agree with this theme, not because it talks about roads, hospitals, schools, electricity, cell phone network, Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) that are very close to the hearts of the people of Zambia, but because Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane has simplified and translated the technical language of a budget into a language that the most ordinary person can understand.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Members who have had the privilege of interacting with experts will agree with me that one distinguishing feature or hallmark of a genuine expert is the ability to explain complicated and difficult concepts and issues in a language that the most ordinary person can understand.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, it is said that simplicity is the hallmark of an expert. Hon Dr Musokotwane is, indeed, an expert economist who deserves to be addressed as Hon. Doctor of Economics.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the mind is the source of all purposeful actions as opposed to reflex actions that include breathing, walking and seeing. We cannot change anything in our lives without, firstly, thinking about it and planning on how to go about effecting the change that we desire. Unfortunately, the mindset is the most difficult thing to change. This is how the late Professor Lameck Goma, the first black Vice-Chancellor of the University of Zambia and former Minister of Foreign Affairs, described the difficulty of changing the mindset in a famous graduation ceremony speech entitled “The Decolonisation of the Mind”.

This graduation speech came shortly after Zambia had gained her Independence from the British. What Professor Goma brought to the country’s attention was the undeniable fact that although we were independent of colonial rule, our behaviour was still of a colonised people. We still valued and priced foreign goods, especially those made in England. We intuitively respected any white person even before we found out whether that person deserved our respect. We accorded white expatriates better conditions than Black expatriates with similar qualifications. Although we were physically decolonised, we still admired the European way of life, dress code and culture. Professor Goma brought home the point that while Independence brought us physical independence, our mindset was still of a colonised people …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: … and, therefore, the struggle continues and, as the Portuguese would say, “aluta continua”. Professor Goma highlighted the fact that the struggle to free our minds of the colonial legacy was more difficult and protracted.

Mr Speaker, as we debate the role of our co-operating partners on the Floor of this House, in the financing of development efforts, one cannot fail to agree with Professor Lameck Goma that the influence of our colonial past still lingers on because of the way we react to matters concerning our co-operating partners.

Mr Speaker, allow me to cite a few examples. One of our co-operating partners presided over the mineral wealth of Zambia for seventy-two years. When its mandate to rule Zambia came to an end on 24th October, 1964, what was there to show for those years? There were approximately 100 Bachelor’s Degree University Graduates and about 1,000 Grade 12 graduates.

 For decades, we were told and taught that we would not develop until we adopted the western style of democracy with multi-party elections, unfettered freedom of the press, unfettered freedom of speech, a liberalised market economy and without agricultural subsidies.  However, today, a new major economic super power that has not followed the western world’s prescription has emerged out of East Asia, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: … showing clearly, that there is more than one way to skin a cat. 

Mr Speaker, I would now like to turn to the agricultural sector. I stand to be corrected when I say that over twenty years, the majority of donors have been reluctant to support the fertiliser subsidies to small-scale farmers, even when Hon. Dr Guy Scott was Minister of Agriculture, …

Mr Shawa: Anaba nkhumba uyo!

Dr Kawimbe: …and yet the European Union spends 48 per cent, nearly half of their entire budget, supporting their farmers. In 2006, this came to 49.8 billion Euros. This support to European farmers has been going on for fifty years, that is, since 1960 when the Common Agricultural Policy (CPA) was created with the following objectives:

(a) increase productivity;

(b) ensure a fair standard of living for the agricultural community;

(c) stabilise the markets;

(d) secure availability of supplies;

(e) provide consumers with food at reasonable prices;

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.


Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, I had given myself tasks to reflect on, namely our mindset and, secondly, support to the agriculture sector.

Madam Speaker, the Government support to the American farmers is even older than the European programme. It dates backs to the great economic depression of the late 1920s and early 1930s. Therefore, the American programme of agricultural subsidies is, at least, eighty years old. The landmark legislation was the 1933 Agricultural Adjustment Act which established the following:

(i) Government control over production by paying farmers to reduce  acres in cultivation;

(ii) purchase surplus products;

(iii)  regulate the marketing of certain crops;

(iv) guarantee minimum payments for farmers for some products; and
(v) make loans to farmers using only their unharvested crops as collateral.

The cost of agricultural subsidies to the American taxpayer is between US$15 and US$35 million, every year, depending on the weather and international crop prices.

Madam Speaker, the rationale behind agricultural subsides is that a nation’s food supply is too critical to be governed by uncontrolled market forces and that to keep a steady supply of food, farmers’ income must be stable.

Madam Speaker, although, for decades, we have been told and taught that subsiding agriculture is a waste of taxpayers’ money, we should politely ignore that advice from people who do not practise what they preach. We should also politely ignore advice being given on the Floor of this House that subsidising fertiliser and seed for our small-scale farmers is a waste of taxpayers’ money. They are also saying that buying our small-scale farmers’ maize at K65,000.00 per 50 kg of maize, a price which is above the current international market price, is an even bigger waste of taxpayers’ money.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency, the President is right. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is right and, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is also right that Zambia’s food supply is too critical to be governed by uncontrolled market forces. They are also right by saying that to maintain a steady food supply, our farmers must continue to be supported for many more years to come just as the Americans have been supporting their farmers for over eighty years and the Europeans for ever fifty years.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, let me now turn my attention to the subject of unemployment.  For decades, the colonial legacy taught us that unless you work in an office, factory or mine, you are not employed; you are unemployed.

Yesterday, I decided to look up the definition of the word ‘employ’ in the dictionary and this is what it said. To employ is to give work to someone and pay them for it. I then looked up the word ‘job’ and this is what the dictionary said. A job is a paid position or a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid. The two important words here are ‘paid work’.

Unless we begin to consider the millions of Zambians who make their living on the land as employed, unemployment in Zambia will continue to be very high. Unless we begin to think of the millions of Zambians who make their living fishing in the lakes and rivers of Zambia as employed, unemployment will continue to be high in the country. Unless we begin to consider the people who cook for us, clean our homes, wash our clothes and baby sit for us as employed, unemployment will continue to be very high in our motherland. Unless we begin to consider commodity brokers who go out into the countryside and buy agricultural produce that ends up in our markets and shelves of grocery shops as employed, our unemployment statistics will continue to be high. Unless we begin to consider the thousands and thousands of marketers across our country as employed, our unemployment statistics will continue to rise. Taxi drivers, newspaper vendors, talk time vendors are all in employment. Thousands of brick layers, carpenters, plumbers, painters and electricians powering our exploding construction sector are probably not captured in our employment statistics. Our people selling building and river sand and crushed stones are not captured.

Madam Speaker, the 2010 Nobel Economics Prize has been awarded to two Americans, Peter Diamond and Dale Mortensen, and a British Cypriot, Christopher Pissarides, for their work on the problem that is confronting our world; namely, there is a mismatch between the available jobs and the people to fill them. The question that these people have been honoured for is: Why are there so many people unemployed, at the same time that there are large numbers of job openings? How can economic policy affect unemployment? This year’s laureates have developed a theory that can be used to answer some of these questions.

Classical economic theory says that buyers and sellers, in this case, employers and potential employees, always find each other, but this is not what is happening in the real world.

The laureates’ general conclusion is that searching for jobs and stabilising labour can take up so much time and resources that economies can have high jobless numbers and high vacancy rates simultaneously.

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Is this true of the Zambian situation? Unfortunately, yes. As we sit here in this Chamber of this august House, Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Health has 20,000 vacancies, and money sitting in the bank to pay for the entire spectrum of health workers such as nurses, doctors, clinical officers, laboratory technicians, physiotherapists, social workers and radiographers, totalling 20,000.

As Members of Parliament and Ministers of the Government, we often get telephone calls from our constituencies asking us to help find employment for some young person. Even in our own households and extended families, we have young men and women, our sons and daughters, nephews and nieces looking for work. Unfortunately, they do not have the skills needed by the Ministry of Health. To make things even worse, our sons and daughters who completed Grade 12 do not have the five credits to gain them acceptance into nursing school or Chainama College of Health Sciences or Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce. When they have the five credits, Maths and English are missing and, instead, they have credits in Home Economics, Bemba, Lozi or Religious Education.

To make things even worse, our sons and daughters shun working with their hands. They say my father is an hon Member of Parliament and I am a Grade 12 school leaver, how can I look after cattle even when a bull is worth US$2,000 in Katanga? We have taken discipline out of our school system and are, now, paying the price. A young man I met at Edinburgh Hotel in Kitwe made a very interesting observation that there are no foreigners in Kitwe who are unemployed. The reason is that …

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister responsible for Luapula Province in order to avoid debating issues affecting the people of Luapula and the developmental projects aimed at recucing poverty that the Government has put in place in the province? I need your serious ruling on this issue.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Will the hon. Minister continue, please.

Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, a young man I met at Edinburgh Hotel in Kitwe made a very interesting observation that there are no foreigners in Kitwe who are unemployed. The reason is that foreigners will take on any work that comes their way as long as it helps them to keep body and soul intact. Let us recognise the fact that nobody can tell when you present a kwacha note how you earned it. You could have earned it as a petrol attendant, waiter, bus driver, university professor, marketer or an hon. Member of Parliament, it is still the same kwacha currency.

Madam Speaker, allow me to conclude with the following observations. The first is that there is a need to redefine employment and unemployment along the lines that I have suggested. Our employment and unemployment statistics should capture employment in the informal sector. Let us focus our job creating efforts on the small and medium size enterprises. In the United States of America, small and medium sized enterprises account for the bulk of the jobs in that economy. It is against this background that I feel that the decision by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to place the ceiling on the Citizen’s Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF) loans at K50 million is a move in the right direction.

Madam Speaker, the economic ministries of Agriculture and Co-operatives, Livestock and Fisheries Development, Tourism and Natural Resources, Energy and Water Development and Mines and Mineral Development will create jobs, but the people need to be equipped with the necessary skills to take full advantage of the job opportunities that will be created in the economy and this is what brings into focus the ministries of Education and Science and Technology because it is their duty to spearhead the imparting of skills to our people.

Madam Speaker, I wish to pay very special tribute to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the challenges he has faced in 2010. He had to find money to buy fertiliser for the 2010/2011 Season, to finance the salary increases, for the National Constitutional Conference, for the national registration cards, voters’ registration and for the census. He found money to clear the backlog of the indebtedness of the FRA to the transporters from last year. He found money to pay the farmers for the bumper harvest crop.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: He found money for the by-elections. He must be commended for doing an excellent job.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kawimbe: Finally, Madam Speaker, in medicine, if you are consistent, your patients will die. If I give Hon. Munkombwe medicine to lower his blood pressure, when the pressure becomes too low, I have to be inconsistent by giving him medicine which will raise the blood pressure. Since economics is a dynamic field, the hon. Minister has to keep adjusting the programmes and figures. The way you keep moving on a bicycle is to keep on cycling.

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion. I also would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for presenting the Budget Speech and this is the second time I am doing so. Firstly, it was when he presented the Budget after he was appointed hon. Minister. I said, in this House, that it was possible for him to change the direction of the economy of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Indeed, the hon. Minister has done us proud with his work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, it is unbelievable that my colleagues on my left seem to forget where we are coming from.

Hon. Opposition Members: On your left.


Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, on your left.


Mr Kaingu: In 1991 when MMD came into power, the people of Zambia were queuing for every essential commodity. They were called mabwidi or rats in Zimbabwe. Today, these are the people who are saying the MMD has not done anything. In fact, our economy was in a comatose. It was dead up to about 1994/95. Hon. Hachipuka who was in business like me, can testify to that. That time some of you were in the universities trying to get money from us, …


Mr Kaingu: … will tell you that in 1994, the base rate in this country was 154 per cent.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kaingu: Yes, I am talking about the interest rates which you keep saying have not come down. Let me tell you that the interest rates have come down significantly and stabilised at around 24 to 25 per cent. Can you say that the interest rates have not come down, and yet they have moved from 154 per cent to between 24 to 25 per cent? Hon. Hachipuka will also tell you that the interest rates have come down. You do not know that the interest rates have come down because you were not in business at that time.


Mr Kaingu: Our inflation rate has come down.


Mr Kaingu: I am telling you all this because I am also a member of the Economics Association of Zambia (EAZ).

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister will avoid speaking directly to the hon. Members. Kindly speak through the Chair so that you get your full protection.

Hon. Minister, may you continue.

Mr Kaingu: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We, who are members of the EAZ, are commending the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the work that he is doing.


Mr Kaingu: Some of us who are economists would tell you that if the interest rates become lower, right now, more money would be injected into the economy and this would, in turn, push inflation up. Our inflation rate now is at 7 per cent. We do not want to risk it going up. In any case, we, who were in business in 1994, like Hon. Hachipuka, would tell you that the inflation rate in this country was 75 per cent and we have managed to bring it down to 7.5 per cent. That is commendable.


Mr Kaingu: Before privatisation, it was not only the mines, but all our industries that collapsed. At the time we were privatising our economy, we looked for Zambians to take over the running of companies, but very few came forward. The few Zambians who bought companies were unable to run them. We, therefore, had to look for foreign investors.

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that these investors come from their countries with borrowed money. Therefore, it is not true that the money they externalise is all profit from their investment activities in this country. In any case, when we talk about the GDP, we are talking about consumption, the Government taxes, investments as well as exports and imports. Therefore, the GDP is not only based on mine revenues, as some people tried to imply.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

I think you should allow the hon. Minister to debate.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, having said that, there is a topical subject that the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula enjoyed debating and I am very happy that he brought it up. He spoke very well and should keep up the good work. The subject I am talking about is that of unemployment and a lot of people have stood on the Floor of this House to talk about it. We, on this side of the House, have said that we have created thousands of jobs, but the Opposition is still saying there are no jobs.

I, therefore, would like to define what unemployment is to hon. Members. Labour force is defined as all people aged eighteen and above who are either working for pay or actively seeking paid employment. On the other hand, unemployment is defined as the fraction of the labour force without a job, but registered as looking for a job. So, it is not everybody on the street who is unemployed. A person must register for a job.


Mr Kaingu: Hence, full employment does not mean zero unemployment, but rather takes into account the reasons for unemployment.


Mr Kaingu: There is also what is termed as frictional unemployment. This is a brief period of unemployment experienced by individuals moving between jobs or into labour markets. In other words, people such as those just leaving colleges and universities are the ones who experience frictional unemployment. This kind of unemployment is also experienced by those who have just been fired or are changedjobs. Thus, these cannot claim to be unemployed.
Madam Speaker, there is also seasonal unemployment which is brought about by seasonal changes in employment or labour supply. As we speak, farmers are currently employing people to clear their fields because the rains are soon coming. Afterwards, these workers will be laid off and farmers will only engage them before the next rainy season. This is an example of seasonal employment. Therefore, we cannot say that these people are unemployed because they will be re-employed next season.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: There is also structural unemployment which is what the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Province talked about. Structural employment is where the jobs available do not match the qualifications available and also where someone seeking a job is not in the place where a job is available. For example, if I want to be a miner, I cannot be looking for a job here where there are no mines.

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kaingu: There could be a job at a mining company in Kitwe, but I will be unemployed if I am here because there is no ...


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

When an hon. Minister is speaking, we generally do not interrupt unless there is a fact that has been misrepresented. A fact is a fact and not an opinion. The Chair does not know what facts the hon. Member has seen that he wants to raise a point of order on.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, I have been listening attentively to the hon. Minister who has actually been giving us a lecture. Is he in order to give us a lecture without giving specific numbers of those in employment according to the categories that he has mentioned? How many seasonal workers are there? We want to have a clear picture of what he is talking about, including facts.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member has fully debated. Secondly, the point of order raised did not clearly warrant an interruption on the hon. Minister’s debate.

The hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services may continue.

Mr Kaingu: Thank you, Madam. Before the point of order was raised, I was saying that there is what we call structural unemployment where jobs created may not match the qualifications as the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Province said. If, for example, there are 20,000 jobs, but there are no qualified people to take up the jobs, we cannot say that there are no jobs in Zambia. Jobs have been created, but we do not have qualified people to take them. Therefore, you can call this structural unemployment. You can look for a job in Livingstone, and yet it is on the Copperbelt. Again, there may be jobs for Public Service Vehicle (PSV) drivers, but one may not be employed because they may not be in possession of a PSV driving licence.

Madam Speaker, I want to labour on this issue so that as my colleagues debate the question of unemployment, they must know that the MMD Government has created jobs.

 From these definitions, which I think I must lay on the Table, ...


Mr Kaingu: ... Zambians will know that this Government has worked very hard under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Banda, to create employment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: Finally.

Mr Kaingu: Finally, yes.


Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, finally, the hon. Deputy Minister for Luapula Province talked about the issue of mindset. As a person in charge of culture, which has to do with the mindset, I find it difficult to debate, in this House, where young people like my nephew, Hon. Mukanga, can shout at an old man like me.


Mr Kaingu: That shows that we are losing our culture.


Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kaingu: We are found in a situation …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.


Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister, who is debating his line of thought, which I am listening to attentively, in order to mention my name and claim that when I debate, I shout at big people like him, and yet I respect him so much because he is my uncle?

Madam Deputy Speaker: I would have definitely ruled the hon. Minister out of order, but the hon. Member who has raised the point of order has also brought in something that is not allowed in the House. He is also out of order because there are no uncles here.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Therefore, the two hon. Members are out of order.

May the hon. Minister, who is not an uncle, but an hon. Member of Parliament, continue.


Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, there is respect that is gained through achievement and that which is gained through ascription.

Madam, as the hon. Minister in charge of culture in this country, I would like to advise that we do not lose our culture. For example, those who have achieved something, …


Mr Kaingu: You have said what, Hon. Mpombo?


Mr Kaingu: Yes. For example, how can you, while you are still alive with a good mindset and ticking brain, call a person names when he has made you an hon. Minister and exalted you to such levels? It is unbelievable. It is uncultured as far as we are concerned in Zambia.


Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I will continue to deliberate on the mindset. I would like to refer to entrepreneurship as I wind up. I would like to challenge the hon. Members of Parliament to create jobs through entrepreneurship. We should not sit here and say there are no jobs because we, ourselves, are potential employers. In fact, those who are employers can tell the House that from the time they became hon. Members of Parliament in 2006, they have improved their labour force. If they had four workers, I am sure they have eight now. You, yourselves, must create employment, like I have done.

The other day, Hon. Hachipuka raised a point of order …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister likes to draw other hon. Members into his debate and that is why they raise points of order on his debate.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kaingu: I thank you, Madam. An hon. Member from the Southern Province raised a point of order that I put up Kozo Lodge to employ my two wives only. I would like the hon. Member to know that, presently, I have 102 employees ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: … and those two wives he talked about are in charge of those employees.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Kozo!

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, I am grateful that you have given me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I only have a few points to look at. I will start by commenting on the issues that are affecting the people of Kaputa and Mporokoso. I will also comment on the Great North Road because I know that no development can ever take place if there are no roads.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama:  I will concentrate on that. When some people stand in this House and say that mobile hospitals will do fine in this nation, I feel we are teasing the Zambian people.

Mr Chazangwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, where I come from, in Mfuwe Constituency, people are still waiting to see whether this Government will work on the roads in the area. Sometimes, it is very difficult to stand in this House and debate when you look at the way they have started doing things.

Hon. Members: Who?

Mr Malama: The MMD!

 You start asking yourself whether the people in the Government are serious about what they are doing or they are just desperate. Actually, the Government should inform the people of Zambia whether campaigns have started. If they have started campaigning, let the President dissolve this Parliament so that everyone can campaign freely.

Mr Munaile: Wala onaula nomba!

Mr Malama: I repeat. Let this Parliament be dissolved so that we all go out and start campaigning …


Mr Malama: … because we now hear presidential campaign songs on radios and that is a serious issue.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the picture on the cover of the 2011 Budget Speech. Look at this child in the picture. She is showing the MMD symbol. Actually, all these signs are showing that our friends are really desperate.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning also talked about the roads which the Government will work on.

Madam Speaker, sometimes, it is good to be an under five.


Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, page 18 of the Budget Speech, paragraph 124 says:

“Mr Speaker, let me outline some of the major road works that will be undertaken in 2011:

(i) Mongu/Kalabo;

(ii)  Kalabo/Sinkongo – Angola border;

(iii)  Sesheke/Senanga;

(iv) Landlace Corner – Mumbwa;

(v)  Kabompo/Chavuma;

(vi)  Isoka/Muyombe (and that is where my interest is); and
(vii)  Chipata/Mfuwe ”

 Madam Speaker, my argument is on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road. If this road, according to the MMD Government, is important, then they need to know that it should not be Chipata/Mfuwe because they are misleading the nation. It is Chipata/Mambwe District because in Mfuwe Constituency where I came from, no road construction is going on.


Mr Malama: It is not me who changed that constituency from Mpika East, but the MMD Government for reasons best known to itself. The Government should not continue misleading people. This road is not Chipata/Mfuwe Road, but Chipata/Mambwe Road. That should be made clear and I will continue emphasising that point.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Even if you nod your heads, I will not stop because this is misleading the nation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Can somebody from the Government challenge me on this issue. I would like to know why the Government is misleading the nation.

Madam Speaker, I would also like to inform this House that the people of the Northern Province will never forget Hon. Dr Musokotwane for the 2011 Budget because they have again kissed the dust.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I hope the people of the Northern Province are listening. I would like to advise the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that some Cabinet Ministers from the Northern Province are seriously misleading him. I think this is why one Government hon. Member said that the people from the Northern Province do not care about their province when they get into power. For sure, we do not care about that province. I am saying so because we do not consider this area to be part of this country. We should look at Zambia in totality. That is the point I am trying to make.

I am scared that when some people take over power, some areas in this country will be completely forgotten. You cannot start saying that you are working, and yet you do not actually care about your own area. Zambia is one nation and when you are given power, you definitely need to look at the developmental needs of all the areas in the country. We take the blame for the underdevelopment in our province and I thank the person who raised that point that those in power from that province do not care about it. I hope the people of the Northern Province are listening to what I am saying.

Madam Speaker, I do not know why things are this way. We cannot say we do not need to construct a road from Isoka to Muyombe. That road is important and needed. I am saying so because I like my brothers from that area. I stated in this House that if we do not distribute the wealth of this nation equally, even small tribes will want to produce a leader for this country. This is because they have been made to think that when they make Mr Malama Mwimba President of this country, the road from Mpika to Nabwalya will be worked on. This is wrong.

Mrs Masebo: That is a good point!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, let us look at areas where we need to take development. What is so special about Muyombe as compared to Kaputa and Mporokoso districts? Look at the people of Mporokoso and what they have contributed to nation. How old is Mporokoso District? How old is Muyombe which I am not sure has even got district status? The reason behind the development taking place in Muyombe is simple. It is because there is an hon. Cabinet Minister who comes from there. This is the wrong way of doing things. 


Hon. Government Member: That is wrong!

Mr Malama: I do not care even if you say that what I am saying is wrong. What is important is that you should have thought of the people of Mporokoso when making this Budget. We need to have a tarmac road leading to that district.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, somebody should come and convince me why we need to tar the Muyombe Road. I earlier stated that I do not hate the people of Muyombe. I am simply looking at where you are supposed to take development first. That is what is important, no matter how many times you can shake your heads. We should connect the districts properly. The Great North Road is in a shameful state. I was surprised when somebody from the Executive stood up and said that the Great North Road is being worked on. Where is it being worked on? When they are mending potholes on the Great North Road, they say that the road is being worked on. What is important is to look at the economic power of these roads. We are not going to rest until these important roads are worked on. I really wanted to deliver this message because it is very important.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to debate the Budget Speech in relation to the speech by His Excellency the President …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)


The Minister of Finance and National Planning and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1916 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 21st October, 2010.