Debates- Friday, 5th November, 2010

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Friday, 5th November, 2010

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 9th November, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget to consider the following Heads:

Head 21 – Loans and Investment – Ministry of Finance and National Planning;

Head 37 – Ministry of Finance and National Planning; and

Head 12 – Commission for Investigations.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 10th November, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget and the following Heads will be considered:

Head 13 – Ministry of Energy and Water Development; and

Head 17 – Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

On Thursday, 11th November, 2010, the Business of the House will begin Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bill, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget and the following Heads will be considered:

Head 34 – Human Rights Commission;

Head 44 – Ministry of Labour and Social Security; and

Head 45 – Ministry of Community Development and Social Services.

Sir, on Friday, 12th November, 2010, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour, the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. Then, there will be presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget and the following Heads will be considered:

Head 46 – Ministry of Health;

Head 64 – Ministry of Works and Supply; and

Head 65 – Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President if it is right for a presidential candidate to use his position and Government resources to start campaigning as the Republican President is doing on television and radio before the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) announces the date for elections.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, what I know is that all political parties are looking forward to 2011. I believe they are currently explaining the manifestos and programmes of their parties. There is nothing wrong with doing that. Parties are free to explain what they are going to do for the people of Zambia. Some people are jealous of what one of the presidential candidates is doing …

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … because he is telling the truth and whatever he and his hon. Ministers are explaining is visible for everybody to see. There is development all over the country and this is what we are taking advantage of so that people know in good time what we stand for.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, since the concessioning of the Zambia Railways to Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ), the performance of the railway system has not been up to the mark. What is this Government going to do to ensure that the performance of the RSZ meets the expectations of the Zambians?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is the concern of every Zambian and the Government in general that our railway transportation system should be efficient. That is why we have engaged the RSZ to ensure that it makes its operations efficient. To this extent, the RSZ is investing in the railway line with a view to improving on its performance.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, about three weeks ago, His Honour the Vice-President had a meeting with chiefs from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and North/Western Province. I cannot remember him telling the nation whether or not the meeting was caused by a problem which had occurred. May I know if there is a problem or not.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice of Justice: Mr Speaker, the problem in Zambezi District is common knowledge. There have been some long standing differences arising from some traditional practices during the Likumbi Lya mize Traditional Ceremony. The problem has been caused by the Makishi rising from the East Bank heading to the West Bank. Therefore, as a Government, we have become very concerned and, indeed, the people of Zambia that this particular issue should be resolved. We do not want tribal conflicts especially those which may even spill over into neighbouring countries. That is why we have taken it upon ourselves to engage the traditional leaders and the people involved. We shall take a lead in this particular dispute which has gone to the court before. As you know, recently, there was some kind of breakdown of law and order with people fighting and injuring themselves in that area.
Therefore, as a Government, we have taken it upon ourselves to ensure that there is peace and co-existence between the Lundas and Luvales. These two tribes are as good as brothers and, therefore, they must live in harmony. All traditional leaders and the people should come together and find a lasting solution so that we do not have tribal conflicts in our country. We have learnt from what has happened, in other countries, arising from tribal conflicts. Therefore, it is important that we maintain law and order as well as peace within our borders.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like the Vice-President to confirm whether the Government has any intentions of privatising the National Airports Corporation.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we have no such intentions.

 Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the Government’s position on the establishment of a national airline.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, as you know, we had a parastatal known as Zambia Airways, and not Zambian Airways, which was our national flag carrier. This parastatal went under. However, the Government through the Ministry of Communications and Transport is consulting with the private sector to see whether it would be possible to come up with an airline which is profitable and viable.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice President to reassure me that the road from Mufungu Turn-off as well as Ndondi High School to Chief Moyo’s Palace, on to Hajamba, Simwami or Simukalanga, which he used recently, was a subject of discussion between him and Chief Moyo. I would like to know the progress he is making with regard to working on the road. This is the third time I am raising this issue with the Vice-President. I would like the people to hear on their own what action is being taken regarding this road. I have also raised this question before outside this House.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, indeed, I remember going to his constituency using that road and I can say that I am familiar with the state in which it is. The leadership here is one which visits the people. I went to the Southern Province and I saw what sort of a road it is.

Mr Muntanga: To campaign!


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I directed the hon. Deputy Minister for the province to work on that particular road by deploying the equipment which we bought from China. We will put the road in our work plan so that it is worked on. The hon. Member is free to follow up this issue because work on this raod has been pending for a long time and we got a good number of votes from there.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from His Honour the Vice President when Zambia is going to ratify the African Charter on Democracy, Good Governance and Elections. There is a campaign now that requires eleven countries more before 2011 to bring this charter into operation.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question because it deals with a very important international instrument which Zambia should ratify. We are committed to democratic practices, good governance and any other good tenets. It is in the interest of Zambia that as soon as possible, we ratify that international instrument and the mechanism process of doing that, is on course. We shall facilitate the process so that we ratify that instrument.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chota (Lubanseshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to know if His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice is aware that Kabwe Town is the third most polluted town in the world.


Mr Chota: The first is a town in Russia and the other one is a town in China. If His Honour is aware, what is he doing about this tragic problem in Kabwe?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we take seriously issues to do with pollution and the environment throughout the country. I cannot commit myself to the statement by the hon. Member that Kabwe is the third most polluted city or town in the world, because I first need to do some verifications and come up with a correct position. However, I would like to state that we are working on issues to do with pollution on a daily basis so that we can secure the lives of our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice President tell the nation and the people of the Northern Province, in particular, why the Government has failed to fully rehabilitate the Great North Road stretch from Serenje to Nakonde and especially from Mpika to Chinsali where it is almost impassable.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of roads is an on-going programme. The issue that the hon. Member is talking about is one which I have raised before with the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. In fact, there is supposed to be a contractor to work on that road. We are looking into the matter and it will be addressed in due course.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the position of the Government on the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) executive. There are two positions, one by the International Federation of Football Associations (FIFA) and the other one by the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we are very familiar with FIFA statutes and we are also aware that, in the past, some countries have been banned from participating in sports because of interference by the Government in the operations of sports associations in those countries. According to our laws, the sports council has some role to play in resolving some of these disputes. We shall leave it to the competent authorities to deal with this matter. This is through the FAZ officials themselves as well as through dialogue among all the concerned parties so that they reach an amicable settlement.

Mr Speaker, if these disputes continue, soccer is going to suffer in this country. It will be good if the disputes are resolved as soon as possible. The sports council has given some guidelines to be followed in the resolution of these disputes. It is important that the parties come together to find a lasting solution which is in the interest of the people of Zambia. We, in Government, will observe FIFA statutes to ensure that everything is done in an orderly manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President and Learned Minister of Justice inform us on the results of the recent visit by the African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM), the World Bank and some economic organisations that have ranked Zambia highly. I would like to know the reasons for these rankings.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the reasons we continue to be ranked highly as a Government is because of our good performance on the economic front and in all areas of human endeavour.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, in the area of doing business, as you know, hon. Members of Parliament, as part of the reforms, we have introduced new systems and registration to ensure that investors do business with ease in Zambia. All the economic indicators are positive and Zambia is the place to invest and that is why the investors are coming to Zambia.

Also, there is good governance. Talking about the peer review mechanism, this is a consultative process, through the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) and forums like that we are consulting the people. So, we are practicing good governance. The African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM) process is on course. The report has been done and soon it will be going through the process of validation. So, those are some of the reasons people are ranking Zambia very highly. Above all, the prudent management of financial resources, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … and the economy is what we owe all these accolades from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank and European Union (EU) to.


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Yes, including the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). So, all the facts about Zambia are well-known, for example, that it is on the right course and recorded a bumper harvest unprecedented in the history of Zambia. Why should people not shower us with accolades?

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President rearticulate the progress this Government has made in the last two years?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, in a nut shell, the Zambian economy is booming.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: It has sufficient food for its people to eat and thousands of jobs in the mines are being created.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, as regards the tourism, we are opening up the Northern Circuit. I was there when we were campaigning in Mpulungu and we won the elections there …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … because of the good economic policies which we are pursing. So, in the last two years, we have done wonders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The numerous schools and hospitals that have been built in almost all the districts and provinces are benefiting from the good economic policies and programmes which we are pursing in the interest of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, as regards roads, today, the President will be commissioning the Zimba/Livingstone Road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
     The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, we have commissioned a number of roads such as the M8 Road, Mutanda/Chavuma Road and several other roads. We are moving into townships …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … to rehabilitate roads. We are tarring them and we intend to do this throughout the country. We are a serious Government and are going to deliver.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, yesterday on the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), it was reported that Zambia, Congo (DR) and Zimbabwe, as far as development was concerned, were going downwards …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mushili: … due to various reasons. Respectively, they talked about Zambia’s development going down because of the HIV/AIDS pandemic and Zimbabwe and Congo because of mismanagement of resources. Will the Vice-President confirm that contrary to what he has just been saying?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, if that kind of statement was from the BBC, it was very highly misleading. Maybe, it was made by an individual who had limited or no knowledge about what is going on in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I do not want to comment about our friendly neighbouring countries. I believe they are also striving to do the best for their people. However, as regards our country, everything is there to for all to see. For instance, in the construction industry, look at Manda Hill.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Investors are coming to construct Levy Junction. Look at the schools and hospitals which we are constructing. So, what is being talked about? If you are living in Zambia and are genuine, you will appreciate that we are doing very well and not forgetting the bumper harvest.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I want to commend the Government for bringing to this House the statute to revise the tax for the communication industry. With that said, I would like to find out from the Vice-President whether he is also thinking of introducing the same tax on mining companies that were given tax holidays and were able to make profits within a short period. For example, Kansanshi Mine was given eight years grace period, but was able to make profits in three years because of the prevailing good prices on the world market. Are we thinking of taxing the super profits from such mines so that we make more money for the President to complete and initiate a lot of projects in the country?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, this is what was discussed, yesterday, by Hon. Chizhyuka and Hon. Hachipuka. Indeed, we must get the best out of the mining companies and the tax regime which we have, at the moment, is what we shall apply. Of course, there are mineral royalties which we are being recovered at 3 per cent, corporate tax is at 30 per cent and we have the variable tax. We have changed the tax regime, over the years, to make it better for the mining industry, but at the same time, we do not want to destroy the industry.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we know what happened in Australia, for example, as regards the issue of windfall tax and the disaster which befell the Government because of the imposition of high taxes.


   The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Like the issue of windfall tax, recently, one of the very prominent political leaders has changed his position …

  Mr Kambwili: Question!

  The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … and is now saying that we should introduce development agreements which are far much worse than the tax regime which we have at the moment. So, we are committed to ensure that our people get the best revenue they can from the mining sector.

  I thank you, Sir.

  Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, may I know from the Vice-President when the Gender Department in his office will be made a full ministry?

  The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, this is a matter which we have been consulting among ourselves and, at the right time, the nation will be informed of the position. Whether we should make a ministry for gender is something on which we are consulting.

    I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, it is almost fourteen years since the Binani Group of Companies closed the Ndola Copper Refinery. In view of the fact that the Government said it would take up the payment of terminal benefits for the Ndola Copper Refinery ex-employees, I would like to find out from the Vice-President when this is going to be done.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that matter has legal implications. I have to re-look at the case and refresh my memory on it. Therefore, it is good that the hon. Member has raised it. However, such matters are better handled through correspondence so that I am given the facts and we then look into the matter. I cannot give a satisfactory answer if such a matter is abruptly raised on the Floor of the House because I do not have the facts. I, therefore, do not want to mislead the nation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why his Government applies the Public Order Act selectively in favour of the Ruling Party to the detriment of opposition parties.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I deny that the Public Order Act is applied in the manner suggested by the hon. Member. That is a matter which is handled by the police and I believe that opposition parties in this country have been able to campaign freely, win elections and even do all sorts of things with voters.


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: So, it is not true that they are hindered in any way. Of course, we have an upper hand as the Ruling Party in terms of elections, but we must also participate in holding rallies like anybody else.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, will His Honour the Vice-President comment informatively on the constitutional review process. At what stage are we? Should we expect a new Constitution before the 2011 elections?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I have answered this question before. The matter is being presented before Cabinet. As we all know, there are a lot of new things in the draft Constitution which have financial implications. Therefore, as a responsible Government, we have to analyse some of these things. For example, regarding the suggestion that we should have 266 hon. Members of Parliament, we need to plan on how we are going to seat all of these people in this Chamber. Some of the issues to be considered are whether we would need to build a new Parliament. There is also a suggestion for a new court of appeal, which would require new structures. So, these are some of the issues that we need to address. Nonetheless, we should be able to discuss this matter in the next few days and come up with a definitive position very soon.

Let me also say that we have drafted the particular Bill on this issue. The draft Constitution was presented to me by the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) and as soon as a decision is made, we will publish the Bill in form of amendments as suggested by the NCC. So, the process is on course and the nation will be informed in due course.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Sir, I thank you very much …

The Vice-President’s Question Time expired.





148. Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) what achievements had been made in the implementation of Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation programmes since the COP 15 Conference in Copenhagen; and

(b) what arrangements had been made in preparation for Zambia’s participation in the negotiations at the COP 16 Conference in Mexico.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, climate change mitigation programmes refer to measures and projects that are intended to reduce or prevent the release of Greenhouse Gas (GHG) emissions into the atmosphere and, thereby reduce global warming. On the other hand, climate change adaptation programmes refer to projects that are designed to reduce vulnerability to the impacts of climate change by improving the resilience of a system or country to climate shocks.

Mr Speaker, the House may also wish to note that the implementation of climate change mitigation and adaptation programmes is an on-going and continuous process and, therefore, should not be linked to one conference only. However, it is important to note that since the COP 15 Conference which took place in Copenhagen in December, 2009, the country has gathered momentum in implementing climate change mitigation and adaptation programmes. The following are some of the notable achievements:

(i) in March, this year, the country received US$ 4.49 million under the United Nations Programme to Reduce Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation (UN-REDD) funded by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO). This support is meant for developing a country programme for implementation of activities that are expected to provide incentives to forest dependent communities for conserving their forest resources. This will help to mitigate climate change;

(ii) after the COP 15, Zambia had her first Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) project (the Lusaka Sustainable Energy) registered with the CDM executive board in March, this year;

(iii) Zambia received US$3.6 million for implementing an adaptation project in the agriculture sector from the Global Environment Facility (GEF);

(iv) Zambia received additional support of US$1.5 million from the World Bank under the Pilot Programme for Climate Resilience (PPCR). These funds are meant to support the preparation of Zambia’s strategic pilot programme for climate-proofing;

(v) hon. Members may wish to know that the Government has already embarked on the process of formulating a comprehensive national climate response strategy which will guide the nation in addressing both adaptation and mitigation in a comprehensive and effective manner; and

(vi) in addition, the Government is also formulating a communication and advocacy strategy on climate change which is expected to provide a framework that will facilitate information flow in order to enhance knowledge and improve decision-making so as to safeguard people’s livelihoods against effects of climate change.

Mr Speaker, the sixteenth session of the conference of parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change takes place in Cancun, Mexico from 29th November to 10th December, 2010. An invitation has been circulated to relevant institutions to nominate and support their representatives to COP 16 and my ministry is currently compiling a list of potential delegates based on the responses to the invitation.

The country has also taken part in international negotiation meetings that have been held in preparation for the Cancun conference. These have included three sessions in Bonn, Germany held in April, June and August and the last one in Tianjin, China which was attended by five of our negotiators at the beginning of October.

The negotiators in the climate change preparatory meetings included officers from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, The National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) and two members from the Zambia Civil Society Climate Change Network (ZCSCCN). These officers will update their colleagues on the status of negotiations during the second preparatory workshop for negotiators.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Excellent!{mospagebreak}

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the African states at the COP 15 Conference in Copenhagen got a very raw deal because they were not united. Can the hon. Minister inform this House whether the African continent will be more united this time and ensure that they get a good deal at the Cancun Conference in Mexico?

Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, Africa was very united at the COP 15 Conference in Copenhagen and our position was very clear. The reason for the outcome of the Copenhagen Conference was that the developed countries were not willing to commit to emission targets. As regards the Sixteenth Session of the Conference of Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change which will take place in Cancun, Mexico, the African position will, again, be articulated. The House may wish to know that African nations are united.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the subject of climate change stems back from the Kyoto Protocol into COP 15 Conference in Copenhagen 15 and COP 16 Conference to be held in Mexico this month end. Can the hon. Minister explain to the House whether or not the industrialised countries have fully assented to the Kyoto Protocol to give us confidence that we will achieve some tangible results as we go into the COP 16 Conference?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, one of the expected outcomes of COP 15 Conference was to come up with an international framework for climate management. We expected that the industrialised countries would take responsibility for their historical emissions. We also expected that they would find a way to assist African countries that are vulnerable to the impact of climate change to adapt. We also expected that they would commit to emission targets, but that was not achieved. As a way forward, Africans must be strong by negotiating, further, for the industrialised countries to commit themselves to their historical responsibilities and ensure that they assist Africa as well as other vulnerable countries to adapt to the impact of climate change.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, other than Zambia’s participation in the international conferences, I would like to find out what the Government is doing about climate change locally. Is the Government going to invite the local people to participate in climate change mitigation and adaptation programmes so that they are educated about this very important subject?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, first of all, we are doing a lot, as a ministry, to ensure that we create awareness and provide information to the people. Last year, before going to COP 15 Conference, we had a workshop for hon. Members here and, clearly, the hon. Member who has asked this question did not participate in that workshop. During the workshop, we exchanged a lot of information. Currently, there are a number of on-going programmes and documentaries on television to educate the people about the impact of climate change as well as what they can do to mitigate and adapt that are running. In addition, we are working as a country on a strategy for climate change so that we can decide whether we should have one policy or rely on the Environmental Policy that we have.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, is the Ethiopian Prime Minister going to represent Africa at the Cancun Conference in Mexico next monthend because there are some reservations from some quarters?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Heads of State have already decided that the Prime Minister of Ethiopia will represent Africa at the Cancun Conference in Mexico. We also know that the Prime Minister and Ministers of Environment will be adequately briefed before going to the conference.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to give a very elaborate answer on the funding that was received. Can she shed some light on how the Government will utilise that money to fight this climate change? Secondly, did we get any money from the Global Fund for this purpose?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister will observe the one question rule.

Ms Namugala: Yes, Mr Speaker.

In the answer, the hon. Deputy Minister referred to some funding that we have received, as a country, for the implementation of the United Nations Collaborative Programme on Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation (UNREDD). This programme is expected to assist the forest dependent communities not to just adapt but also mitigate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, it was largely reported that the COP 15 Conference in Copenhagen was a total flop. Was it because of the non-participation by the African countries or are there any other special reasons for this?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the African parties were very committed and they negotiated through the night. Sometimes, we went on for two days without sleeping to articulate our position.

Mr Speaker, climate change discussions hinge on economic development of Africa and this is why we have made it very clear to our industrialised partners that we need space to also develop. However, hon. Members must understand that in order for the industrialised countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, they have to change the way they have developed over time and that has an impact on their private sector. Therefore, in their domestic legislation, they need to ensure that they put measures in place for their private sector to ensure that they reduce the greenhouse gas emissions. The negotiations are not easy, but we will continue, as Africa, to ensure that climate justice prevails.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, despite a very spirited and powerful presentation which was coupled with negotiation skills by the African group in Copenhagen, the results were fairly miserable because traditionally …

Mr Speaker: Order! You are now debating, hon. Member. Can you ask your question?

Dr Machungwa: What makes you believe that the powerful countries, that are traditional polluters, will let the Africans and other less developed countries that do not pollute the environment have their way? Will the traditional interests of these powerful countries not continue even in Cancun?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the debate on climate change and the responsibility of the developed countries to come to the table and show leadership cannot be left to the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources alone because we now know that climate change is an economic as well as a moral issue.

I, therefore, expect that hon. Members of Parliament will gain enough knowledge to assist, as they interact with each other and the international community, to bring to the table the issue of climate change. It is about us, as Africans, being given an opportunity to develop and the need for the industrialised countries to compensate us in order for us to adapt to the negative impact of climate change.

I thank you, Sir.


149. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 (a) which firm had mining rights over the Kalengwa Mines in Mufumbwe             
                         Parliamentary Constituency;

 (b) what corporate social responsibility the investor was undertaking; and

 (c) of what benefit the dumps in the area were to the local community.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, this matter is in court and, therefore, we cannot state which firm has the mining rights as the same could be sub judice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! Has the hon. Minister got documents to prove that the matter is in court?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, I apologise that I did not bring the documents with me. However, it is true that the case is in court and I can bring the documents to Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Let me guide the House. The convention known as sub judice is, indeed, a convention and not law. It is not binding. It, therefore, depends on the discretion of the presiding officer to decide whether or not to agree to a presentation referring to a question as sub judice and not because the hon. Minister believes or says it is in court.

The presiding officer can actually say it is not sub judice and order the hon. Minister to give the answer.

In this particular case, since it is the first time I am saying this, I shall give the hon. Minister the benefit of the doubt. In future, I shall demand documentary evidence, as you saw, last week, that, indeed, the matter referred to is in court.






Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments:

The Citizens Economic Empowerment (Amendment) Bill, 2010

Third Reading on Wednesday, 10th November, 2010.


The following Bills were read the third time and passed.

The Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Financial Intelligence Centre Bill, 2010

The Anti Corruption Bill, 2010



(Consideration resumed)

VOTE 18 – (Judiciary ¬– Headquarters – K45,427,000,831).

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, before the House adjourned yesterday, I was saying that I wished more money was given to the Judiciary so that it could undertake all its various responsibilities. We are aware that various local courts are being built around the country, including the Western Province where we have the kutas some of which are not proper structures. Therefore, the Judiciary needs to assist the people of Western Province to construct proper structures for the kutas. I think being part of the three wings of Government, perhaps, we should allocate a certain percentage of funds from the Government revenue to the Judiciary so that we ensure that it is autonomous.

Mr Chairperson, some of us trust and believe in the Judiciary, but it does not augur well to be reading issues about misappropriation of funds by the Judiciary in the Auditor-General’s report. We do not want issues like misuse of funds by the Judiciary to be appearing in the Auditor-General’s report. Most of the issues that appear in the report are a result of not following the laid down regulations. We expect the Judiciary to follow laws and regulations to the letter. After all, they are the interpreters of the law. If the Executive, legislators and Opposition quarrel, it is the Judiciary to solve our problems. Why should stories about misuse of funds in the Judiciary appear in the Auditor-General’s report? We do not want to learn from the Auditor-General’s report that an officer from the Judiciary diverted funds. This should stop forthwith. The Judiciary should not appear in the Auditor General’s report because it is supposed to be sowing the regulations properly. Some of these issues in the Auditor-General’s report are not thefts as such but mere ignoring of procedure. If we trust the Judiciary when it comes to interpretation of the law, why should we not trust them with money?
Mr Chairperson, we have also not analysed the functions of the office of the hon. Minister of Justice. The hon. Minister of Justice represents the Judiciary. At the same time, he is a member of the Executive. I think the Judiciary must have the privilege of having a representative in the House to respond to our queries. For instance, as legislatures, we do not debate ourselves and our vote is just passed. However, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice requests the House to debate the vote on the Judiciary. When it comes to questions, the Government says, “The Judiciary will answer”. The Chief Justice is in charge. Your Honour, you are an officer of the Chief Justice. Why should there be a thin line between the Executive and Judiciary.

Mr Munkombwe: You have just stated it!

Mr Muntanga: We need that separation.

Mr Chairperson, I am also concerned about the Sheriff’s Department. We see signs of dishonesty by the Sheriffs Department when we ask them to execute a court’s decision. When we use the Sheriff’s Department, we are actually appealing to the Judiciary, knowing that they are the fairest but, in most cases, the Sheriff’s officers have not been fair. They take advantage of their powers to destroy a person from who they seize properties which is not supposed to be the case. They are supposed to be fair when they seize items from defaulters. They should not go there with the kulilapo attitude. They destroy, eat …


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What does that mean?

Hon. Opposition Members: What language is that?

Mr Muntanga: It is Bemba, my friend.


Mr Muntanga: It means to eat when there is a chance to eat.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, the performance of the Sheriff’s Department must be checked. I want His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to know that even court clerks have become sheriffs. They are cheating villagers because they have suddenly become debt collectors.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The ‘word’ cheating …

Mr Muntanga: Deceiving!

The Deputy Chairperson: … is unparliamentary, hon. Member.

Mr Muntanga: I substitute the word ‘cheating’ with ‘deceiving’.

Mr Chairperson, court clerks have also become debt collectors. They collude even before people appear in court and issue repossession warrants which they use to seize property from poor people who cannot defend themselves. These poor people are losing a lot of property. Why should this be so?

Mr Chairperson, I declare interest as one of those that have suffered at the hands of the Sheriff’s Department. Let me explain to you what happened to me. Instead of using the local sheriff in Choma or Kalomo, someone came from the Sheriff’s office in Livingstone. After implementing the court order, he demanded K10 million for that action. I queried the bill because I felt it was too high. Fortunately, my legal counsel was standing nearby and he told me not worry because he was going to sort out the problem. As a lawyer, he demanded to know how they arrived at K10 million. After that, I paid K600,000.00,  and yet, before my lawyer came, they were demanding K10 million from me.

    What would have happened if I had no lawyer? They are taking advantage of the poor people. How about the ordinary villager? They are collecting items such as cattle from the villages. I, therefore, would like His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to look into this matter seriously. They will demand some money and what they declare to the Government is only a fraction of it. If an officer is travelling from Lusaka to Kalomo, he will say that he spent K50 million. Therefore, you wonder whether that lawyer flew to Kalomo or what. They are hiding under the authority bestowed upon them. That is how they learn how to take money without permission, if I avoid using the word, ‘theft’.  I know that the word, ‘stealing’ is unparliamentary. That is how they take things without the authority of the owners. If this person has been like that from the time he/she was a Juniour officer, how will he/she change? Yes, I understand it is ‘kubula fye’ whatever language that is, but the point I am trying to make is …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What does that phrase mean?

Mr Muntanga: It means, ‘just getting.’


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, what we are saying is that the Judiciary should be above board and we should be able to trust them. We have increased the allocation, but it is not enough. You should not appear in the Auditor-General’s report. We should remove the bad eggs. We should remove those bad people from the Judiciary. We will not be comfortable if we begin hearing stories of Judges getting money. We know you are only human, but we should be able to depend on you and believe in you. I would prefer to go to a person who I know is fair. If I go to a person who has cobwebs hanging on them, whether he is giving a proper judgment or not, people will think that there is something fishy going on. If you have beaten someone, this Judge must decide whether you will be sentenced to death or not. This is a very huge responsibility. We want the Judiciary cleaned up and this can be done if we allocate more resources to it.

Sir, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice should make sure that the stories we read about certain cases in the Judiciary should not continuously happen. We should find a way of sorting out these problems. Politicians are used to hearing that politics is dirty, but the Judiciary is holier than us because it makes decisions on serious matters. 

Mr Mooya: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, this applies to all lawyers. Do not start using bad tactics to make money. People entrust their cases in you because they go to swear in front of you. These days, I do not know what is wrong with this profession.

Hon. UNDP Member: They chew clients’ money.

Mr Muntanga: We will move Motions and show you how other lawyers are behaving. That is daylight robbery of the people. These are the people who eventually become magistrates and Judges. If a lawyer is making money through cheating people, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Muntanga: This word comes out so easily. I will try and replace it with deceiving people. If I ask a lawyer to handle a case for me, all he/she will be thinking of is his/her bad behaviour. His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, we are appealing to you to look into this matter seriously. In the old days, only a certain calibre of people went into this profession.  Now, due to lack of jobs, anybody can become a lawyer.

Hon. UNDP Member: Like Mulongoti!

Mr Muntanga: Somebody will be a lawyer today and the next day, he will be a Judge. You will find that this person has a history of misbehavior. Why do we do things that way?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, you have made that point. Can you move on.

Mr Muntanga: I want it to sink into their heads.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are moving to another point. You have over debated that point.

Mr Muntanga: I know that the Chair is a lawyer. I withdraw that.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, if I had a way, I would give more money to the Judiciary. What is happening in the rural areas is bad. I want the Chief Justice to have money for him to make decisions. We want to have decent courts. His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice should allocate more money for the completion of the new Magistrate’s Courts. You can see that the buildings that we built the other time are looking nice. What about the next ones? You should complete those buildings. There is another building there which has been neglected for too long. We go to court all the time, therefore, we need courts are in a good environment.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Estates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Judiciary.

To begin with, I want to state from the outset that the monies given to the Judiciary are not enough. If I had my way, I would increase the budget to the Judiciary because this is a very important Government department. However, I would like to point out that much as people are saying that we should not condemn the Judiciary, we must appreciate that the people who work in the Judiciary are just like any other ordinary person. Some of them have no calling to work in the Judiciary. What do I mean?

Sir, I have no problems with integrity at the High Court and Supreme Court, but I have a problem with local courts and magistrates. It is a fact that the behaviour of some of the magistrates and local court magistrates is uncalled for. They are the people who are denting the image of the Judiciary. Some of the magistrates are so corrupt that they have turned their jobs into a money spinning industry. For instance, I was told about one magistrate in Luanshya who, when there is a case, calls somebody and tells them, “Instead of you wasting money paying the lawyers, I am the one who has the key. Just pay me so much and you do not need to come with a lawyer. I am going to rule in your favour.” These are some of the people who are denting the image of the Judiciary. Suffice to state that a lot of the magistrates are well meaning and perform their duties accordingly, but some of them are so corrupt that they do not deserve to continue working in the Judiciary. When you have a problem, you expect justice to prevail, but what is happening is that people without money are being punished and those with money go scot-free.

Mr Chairperson, for instance, in Luanshya, there is the sale of Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) houses and issuing of letters of offer is an on-going exercise. There is a group of people that has started forging letters of offer for ZCCM houses. When they do that, they connive with a certain magistrate to go and sue the original owners of the property. The magistrate, without even asking for an opinion from ZCCM, as to who is the rightful owner of the property, just issues orders of eviction to a lot of people. Over twenty people have been evicted. One wonders why only one magistrate has been handling cases of the sale of ZCCM houses.

    I have been to the magistrate-in-charge of Luanshya and I have complained about it. I have been to the District Commissioner (DC) and I have complained, but nobody seems to take action against this particular magistrate. Now, it is these particular individuals that are bringing problems in the Judiciary.

Sir, when it comes to the local court, there is no justice whatsoever. I do not even know where these people who work in the local courts are drawn from because they just end up insulting people when they appear in a local court. People are even scared of going to the local courts because every time they go there, they are disparaged by these local court magistrates who are also very corrupt. In a local court today, if you do not have the money, just know that you are losing the case. I think the Judicial Service Commission and the Judiciary in totality should look at the issue of integrity in the local court and the corruption that is going on by some of the magistrates in the magistrate courts.

Mr Speaker, I have debated before that, sometimes, you should not blame these magistrates because of their conditions of service. Judges get very good money and live posh lives, but look at the magistrates and how much they are paid per month? If a person who is presiding over matters where there is a lot of money involved is paid a low salary, sometimes, you should expect them to bend the rules and start making money out of their jobs. I, therefore, urge the Judiciary to seriously look at the conditions of service for magistrates so that some of these things can be sorted out.

With these few word, I support the estimates of revenue of expenditure to the Judiciary.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, of course, I have taken note of the issues raised. What is of concern are the views from the last speaker who is making allegations of corruption against magistrates and local court justices. What we should do, as hon. Members of Parliament, leaders and as law makers, is to report such cases to institutions which handle issues of corruption and the administration of justice. These institutions are fully functional. We also have the Judicial Complaints Authority. If you have a complaint on the way justice is being administered or is questioning the integrity of presiding officers, you should make a formal complaint to the commission. This institution deals with such complaints. If your complaints are genuine, they will be dealt with. We also have the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). For example, if you have got evidence, as you are suggesting, of corruption, why not take your formal complaint to the ACC instead of just debating these issues. Hon. Member, if you are serious, you should file that complaint even today. You must go and file it if you have evidence of corruption. Indeed, we do not want corrupt institutions. In conclusion, let me state that I have taken note of most of the points that have been raised.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 18/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 18/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 18/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 20 – (Loans and Investments – Ministry of Local Government and Housing – K648,465,104,023) and VOTE 29 – (Ministry of Local Government and Housing – K320,797,867,421)

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Chituwo): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to present my ministerial policy statement on the 2011 estimates of expenditure.

Let me begin by reminding us all that my ministry’s mandate is to promote a decentralised and democratic local government system and facilitate the provision of an efficient and effective delivery of quality housing and municipal services by councils and other stakeholders.

Mr Chairperson, in line with the Government’s vision for decentralisation, the ministry’s strategic focus for 2011 is to improve and increase the councils’ capacity to plan, implement and execute programmes that involve the communities and lead to sustainable development. In this regard, the ministry will enhance and discharge its functions which include local government administration, housing, administration of chiefs’ affairs, imposition of levies, town and country planning, water supply and sanitation, fire and rescue services as well as property valuation amongst others.

In discharging these functions, the ministry has allocated a total budget of K975.7 billion for the year 2011, as compared to K850.12 billion for the year 2010. The increase in the 2011 estimates is largely due to an increased allocation for grants to councils, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and water supply and sanitation.

Mr Chairperson, in 2009, the Government approved the Decentralisation Implementation Plan (DIP) being the blueprint to assist all stakeholders undertake decentralisation. In the 2010 estimates of expenditure, my ministry concentrated on sensitising all those ministries which will devolve functions to the councils and also carried out activities aimed at right-sizing councils to make them ready to receive additional responsibilities.

In 2011, the ministry will now focus on the following activities:

(i) facilitation of sector devolution plans, legal reforms and other activities that will be undertaken by the developing ministries in order to prepare them for actual devolution in 2012;

(ii) completion of the new organisational structures for all city, municipal and district councils. In line with their functions under decentralisation;

(iii) commencement of the second phase of implementation of fiscal decentralisation by improving the mechanisms of financial transfers from Central Government to councils, as well as improving the local revenue base of councils; and

(iv) commencement of the establishment of Area Development Committees (ADCS) in all wards across the country to reinforce the participation of citizens in matters of local government and development.

With the establishment of the ADCS and the expected increase in the council structures, coupled with the expected introduction of new councillors in 2011, there will be an increased demand on the Chalimbana Local Government Training Institute to conduct relevant courses and also carryout sensitisation and training in corporate governance.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is committed to making the councils more effective and efficient so that they become the strong engines for national development. To this effect, this august House amended the Local Government Act in 2010 to provide for the re-establishment of the Local Government Service Commission which shall deal with human resource management in councils.

In the 2010 budget estimates, grants to councils were disbursed and targeted at constructing infrastructure to improve administration and service delivery. Several councils, including Monze and Chililabombwe, prioritised to construct civic centres to enable council deliberations to be conducted in a fitting environment. These capital grants also extended to the provision of drainages, especially in Lusaka which experienced floods in the 2009/2010 rainy season.

Mr Chairperson, in addition to the foregoing, other grants such as grants in lieu of rates and grants to offset grain levies were also disbursed to eligible councils. This trend shall continue in the coming year, 2011, aimed at ensuring that more councils are able to identify and improve on local revenue generation. In line with this, the ministry will assist the councils to conduct property valuations so that their valuation rolls are current. Councils will then be able to increase both their revenue base, as well as revenue from new rateable values.

Mr Chairperson, the Government continues to focus on the role of the constituency in promoting and enhancing local development. In order to ensure our full participation in national development, the CDF has been increased to allow the constituency committees more room to undertake different projects as dictated by the local priorities.

Mr Chairperson, for 2011, the amount per constituency has been increased to K720 million from K666.7 in 2010. I must urge hon. Members of Parliament to take an active role in the utilisation of this fund so that the people may appreciate that their Government wants them to participate in their own development.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.


Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I had just started urging the hon. Members of this august House to continue taking keen interest in the utilisation of the CDF and for those who have not to start. In so doing, our people will appreciate that, indeed, the Government values them and their opinions as they participate in the local development.

Mr Chairperson, the importance of our chiefs and traditional leaders in the development of this country cannot be over-emphasised. It is for this reason that in 2009 and 2010, the Government facilitated the transportation needs of their royal highnesses to ensure that they are able to regularly visit their subjects.

In 2011, the Government wants to spend more effort and time in resolving issues pertaining to boundary disputes and succession wrangles. These two issues have tended to cause fiction between the neighbouring chiefs and also amongst clan members.

With improved relations in the rural areas, it becomes easier for the Government to provide services such as feeder roads, rural water supply and sanitation, rural markets and other social services.

Mr Chairperson, the policy of the Government is to ensure that every citizen has access to clean and safe drinking water and adequate sanitation. In the 2010 budget estimates, the Government provided for the drilling of a minimum of 1,000 boreholes throughout the country and facilitated the construction of latrines in the rural areas. To-date, more than 700 boreholes have been sunk and contractors are currently drilling in Zambezi, Chavuma, Mpongwe, Masaiti, Lufwanyama, Kafue, Namwala, Chongwe, Kalomo, Itezhi-tezhi and all the districts in the Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: In 2011, the ministry has targeted to drill a minimum of 2,000 boreholes and shift the focus to all districts in the Northern Province and to some districts in the Luapula, Southern and Eastern provinces.

Mr Chairperson, this notwithstanding, I have programmed that, at least, ten boreholes shall be constructed in every district as a bare minimum. Sanitation and hygiene shall also receive particular attention with increased activity on community-led total sanitation (CLTS) being promoted in all provinces.

It is our vision, to wipe out water borne diseases such as diarrhoea, dysentery and the symptomatic cholera which keep affecting our people. My ministry intends to promote sanitation marketing whereby all property owners will be persuaded to build latrines, especially in our settlements. Plans are underway to make it possible to replace the common pit latrine with more environmentally friendly systems, including waterborne facilities as well as ecological sanitation.

Mr Chairperson, for the urban areas, the Government completed the commercialisation process with the establishment of the eleventh water utility company in 2010. The main activities in 2010 centered on implementing area based projects, the highlights being the construction of new water systems in Shang’ombo and Chongwe. There are contracts running in the Lusaka, Central and Eastern provinces to improve water supply and sanitation infrastructure. It is envisaged that, in 2011, we will improve facilities in the Copperbelt, Western and Luapula provinces and resolve problems in boarder towns and newly created districts such as Mpulungu, Luangwa, Nakonde, Chienge, Kazungula, Siavonga, Sesheke and Ikelen’ge, respectively.

There has also been a shift in how we implement activities in the sense that we have now developed national programmes that cover the entire country rather than projects which cover only selected areas. In this regard, we have the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation, National Urban Water Supply and Sanitation, Make Zambia Clean and Healthy, National Solid Waste Management, Urban Markets and Bus Station Development, National Housing and National Fire Services programmes.

With the implementation of the National Urban Water Supply and Sanitation Programme, I have taken into consideration the complaints from hon. Members who have expressed dissatisfaction with the performance of water utility companies. This poor performance has been as a result of lack of start-up and working capital provision, which the Government is now providing by rehabilitating the dilapidated infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, hon. Members have expressed concern regarding the way our towns have developed of late and also the increasing levels of unplanned settlements. In 2010, the ministry commenced a programme to prepare Integrated Development Plans (IDPs) for the districts as a roadmap for orderly development. The ministry shall continue to develop IDPs for districts which are unable to do so as a way of guiding development and avoiding sporadic and haphazard development. This exercise will be complemented by the full connection of all districts via a wide area network which started this year in Kaoma, Chibombo, Mpulungu and other places. These districts are now connected to the ministry hub.

In addition to that, there shall be a programme for the identification of unplanned settlements for purposes of upgrading them and providing the necessary municipal services. Commencing in 2010 and to be continued in 2011, is the review of planning legislation to ensure that it takes into account the changes in the environment.

Mr Chairperson, we have all observed the rapid increase in traffic, especially in the urban centres. Traffic jams are now becoming the order of the day owing to the increase of motor vehicles. Our economy has improved tremendously in the past few years enabling people in areas such as Luanshya and Kabwata …

Mr Lubinda: Aah! Order!

Dr Chituwo: … to buy cars. The ministry has undertaken the rehabilitation of about 25 kilometres of urban roads in Kitwe and Ndola, which project is still on-going. In 2011, it is planned to construct the southern inner ring road in Lusaka. For this exercise to succeed, some residents in the adjourning compounds will have to be relocated to pave way for the new road alignment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, our plans may just remain on paper if we do not have in place men and women to implement, disburse funds and monitor their usage. Therefore, our programmes for human resource development, training, accounting, auditing, monitoring and evaluation will be enhanced through the relevant budget provisions. I cannot say it any better than that local government is the closest we can get to the people. Therefore, by supporting this budget, we are working to reach the people more efficiently and effectively.

Mr Chairperson, let me conclude my submission by highlighting the importance of fire and rescue services and provision or construction of housing for our people. With the enactment of the Public-Private Partnership Act, the Government is encouraging private investors to partner with it to construct houses which will be accessed by all citizens, but with special emphasis on the poor.

In 2010, the Government has facilitated the acquisition of seven second-hand fire tenders and ladder trucks. It is intended to continue procuring more of such equipment to meet the requirements. I submit and urge all hon. Members of this House to support my ministry’s budget for 2011, which stands at K975.7 billion.

I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for according me this chance to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I will be very brief and start with Vote 20 – Loans and Investments – Ministry of Local Government and Housing – K648,465,104,023. While I appreciate the establishment of water utility companies in Zambia, my worry is that these companies have not lived up to expectations. Everyone in this country knows that water utility companies in Zambia have totally failed to live up to expectations. The simple reason for this failure is inadequate funding to the sector. I, therefore, request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to ensure that there is adequate funding to these companies.

Mr Chairperson, for example, the Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company in the Northern Province has totally failed to deliver adequate water supply to residents. Actually, in the entire country, water shortages are the cry of the day. What is the Government doing about this issue? It is important for the Government to regard water as life and provide it to our people in all the districts.

Mr Chairperson, going back to Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company, it has not failed to deliver deliberately, but because it has no funds to cover the costs of water reticulation.

Mr Chairperson, the Government should, therefore, become serious and ensure that companies such as Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company live up to people’s expectations. We have already worked out the amount needed for this company to work effectively and provide adequate water to the people of Mpika. The amount required is only K8 billion.

  Definitely K8 billion can be afforded by the Loans and Investments Section of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. There is a need for the ministry to ensure that water is provided for in all the districts of Zambia.

May I ask the hon. Minister what has happened to the contract that was entered into between the Zambian Government and the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA) to provide water to the entire Northern Province. The agreement was signed in 2008 but, to date, we have not seen any results of that agreement. May I, therefore, request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, when he responds, to give us an answer thereto.

Mr Chairperson, on the issue of markets, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has requested that each district council should find ways and means of raising revenue. Most districts want to establish modern markets. For example, in Mpika, a place for erecting a modern market has already been found and plans have been sent to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing so that they provide funds. To date, we have not heard anything from the ministry headquarters.

In 2008, we were instructed by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to clear a piece of land to build fifty houses for rent. Money to pay was given and paid to them. To date, nothing has been provided to the district for the construction of the fifty houses which were promised by the ministry. The houses were going to be very important in as far as the generation of revenue to the district is concerned.

Let me now talk about the functions of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Yes, the title sounds good, today, but we also need to look at the future. In the past, we had council houses from which councils collected revenue. Today, all council houses have been sold and there is no revenue coming into the coffers of the ministry. So, is the title still applicable?

The other issue is about uplifting the village standards of living. We want all villages to become modern. This is why the Government should change the title of Ministry of Local Government and Housing and call it Ministry of Local Government, Housing and Village Development. There are nice villages in Zambia. For example, there is a village between Sinda Stop in the Eastern Province and Katete called Azeleguze. It is the biggest village in the Eastern Province.


Mr Kapeya: The Government should develop this village by providing modern facilities such as electricity and hospitals. During the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, there were plans for village development. It was called Village Regrouping and, indeed, that is what the pact, once it comes into Government, will do.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Therefore, I appeal to the Government, Mr Chairperson, to uplift the standard of living of our villages which are big in size. We also have a big village in Luapula Province called Mwansabombwe. This village is just like a township. In the Northern Province, especially in Mpika and may I declare interest on this matter, there is a village called Chitulika. We need to transform such villages. Therefore, I appeal to the Government, through His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice and the hon. Minister to look at the title of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and change it into the Ministry of Local Government, Housing and Village Development. This is the only way we can progress. We should not remain stagnant.

Mr Chairperson, my last point is about the CDF. Let me be very frank by saying that had it not been for the CDF, because this Government has neglected some of the constituencies, there is nothing that we would have done, especially in Mpika Central.


Mr Kapeya: For your information, this is the mistake you make. This is taxpayers’ and not the Government’s money. The Government is only there to collect money on behalf of the Zambian people.


Mr Kapeya: This is the problem of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government because they think it is their money. It is not your money. Wake up, men!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Bauze.

Mr Kapeya: What is your problem? Had it not been for the CDF, there would have been no development in Mpika Central. Thank God, the CDF has done a lot. We have built teachers’ houses …

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya:  bridges, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: … health posts …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya:  …  and constructed roads.

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Kapeya: The CDF and not ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members should listen to the hon. Member debating and stop shouting across the Floor.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Kapeya: Sir, thank you very much for your protection.

In conclusion, I urge the Government to release the CDF as quickly as possible this year. Time is running out bwana Minister of Local Government and Housing. Please, release the CDF before the year ends so that developmental projects can be completed. Some of us ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

He is not bwana minister. Could you address him properly, please?

You may continue.

Mr Kapeya: Sorry, Mr Chairperson. Hon. Minister, we need this money in time because we have already planned for it to be used on projects that we have lined up.

Thank you very much, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, for according me a chance to also add my voice to the vote on the Floor.

Mr Chairperson, I will begin with the CDF. I realise that it has become the order of the year that the fund is only released towards the end of the year. This is November, less than two months before the year ends, but some councils have not yet received their CDF for 2010. 
 In the future, should you be given the privilege by the Zambian people to run the affairs of this country, once again, I urge the hon. Minister to try and expedite the release of this money so that it becomes easy for hon. Members of Parliament and their committees to disburse the funds for the deserving projects.

Mr Chairperson, still on the CDF, there are new guidelines that were posted to councils as the limits on utilisation for administration and monitoring. When I came to this House, the percentage for administration work and monitoring stood at 10 per cent and obviously, as we gear up the figure of the CDF allocation, the 10 per cent starts to look too big for just that activity.

Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister, however, to review the circular that was posted to councils to limit the administration of this particular activity of monitoring to only K20 million. I say so because, most often, many committees have failed to monitor and verify the utilisation of these funds due to this cap of K20 million.

Mr Chairperson, I think that whilst 10 per cent is high, the hon. Minister could consider lifting the limit on administration and monitoring to a slightly decent figure of, maybe, up to K40 million.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, take Mufumbwe Constituency or any other constituency that has more than ten wards, as an example. In order to monitor these wards, at least, three times in a year and ensure that materials are collected and put to prudent use and according to plan, a reasonable amount of money is required. It is difficult to round up sixteen wards to monitor progress.

 This is why, in most cases, auditors find that certain works have not been completed and are not reflected in the report of the council. These are my thoughts.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister spoke about safe drinking water and that the Government had intentions of sinking sixteen boreholes. I will, again, take Mufumbwe as an example. One thousand boreholes in the country translate into about six boreholes per constituency.

If you consider a place such as Siavonga where there are twelve wards or Mufumbwe where there are sixteen wards, how do you determine who deserves to have the boreholes?

Hon. Opposition Member: Kasempa has 20 wards.

Mr Nkombo: I think that there is a need to step up the provision of water. If we were in the Government, we would be looking at five thousand boreholes per annum. That would be a bit more reasonable.

Hon. Member: Continue wishing.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, last year, the Government decided to do away with the crop levy. I am sorry, but I shall not stop talking about that decision. I will give a practical example of the bumper harvest that we had, this year, and how much money councils would have collected to assist them to provide the much-needed services to the people they serve.

The crop levy was replaced with grants, which stand below 20 per cent of the actual collection of the crop levy.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in rescinding that decision and allowing the councils to implement the crop levy so that they can try to revamp the diminishing levels of services that we see currently.

Mr Chairperson, in my constituency, as you know, we have the biggest sugar estates in the south of the equator and we also have a lot of farmers who grow maize as well as other crops. While I appreciate the attempt to bridge the gap that was caused by the removal of the crop levy, it has not done the councils any good because, at the moment, certain councils are struggling to pay personal emoluments to their staff and late alone benefits to the retirees.

Councils are failing to deal with street lighting, solid waste management and monitoring of domestic waste such as where to place soak always and septic tanks which has resulted into contamination of ground water.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kapeya did justice on the matter of inefficiencies of water utility companies. We know, for instance, that, through the Government Loans and Investments under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the water utilities have been given                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         long-term loans.

Whilst these loans exist, the service provision remains mediocre and the infrastructures of most of these water utilities have remained below expectation even if they were commercialised a few years back. They continue to overcharge people for water usage and the availability of water in a 24 hour day is just about five hours. That is not good.

Sir, I would like to look at the markets and graveyards. We know that the European Union (EU) has been helping the Government to establish modern markets and we are grateful for that.

In Mazabuka, there are a number of markets that charge the marketers a paltry K1 thousand per day in order to assist the market committees maintain sanity and order as well as hygiene. As you know, most of the produce found at the markets are perishables. Therefore, as insufficient as the K1,000 may be, it helps.

Mr Chairperson, there is an organisation in this country called the Zambia National Marketeers Association (ZANAMA). This organisation has caused a lot of havoc in this country. ZANAMA came to Mazabuka to influence marketeers that the council was overcharging them and that if ZANAMA was allowed to establish an office and represent marketers, it would halve the levies, that is, to K500.

Mr Chairperson, I chased ZANAMA from Mazabuka.


Mr Nkombo: I called them to the council and told them that there was no room for anarchy in Mazabuka. They gave me an example of how, in Kitwe, they have been operating with the co-operation of the stakeholders. However, I do remember the Mayor of Kitwe also telling ZANAMA that their time was limited.

ZANAMA remains a wing of the ruling MMD. It is also championing the cause of the ruling MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the performance of ZANAMA must be checked. I want to put it on record that ZANAMA is going to incite people to break the law in this country if it continues to mutilate the law by insinuating that the law we passed in this House is outdated and that it is above the established organs in the Bus Stations and Markets Act. Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, who is new in his current portfolio, not take a leaf from his neighbour, Dr Kazonga, the former hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, of giving prominence to organisations like ZANAMA. I saw him on television standing shoulder to shoulder with people whose intensions are ultra vires to the existence of these markets. In all sincerity, I want the hon. Minister to know that people can only be oppressed for a certain period of time. ZANAMA is a very bad organisation. It is terrible and not good for any of us. It must be disbanded forthwith.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I want the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to remember that Lusaka is not the only place that requires a modern dump site. Modern as the dump site in Lusaka may be, it would be good for those who are interested to drive to Chunga Dump Site and see the amount of trouble that has besieged that dump site. That is why more often than not, we are seeing condemned goods coming back into our communities for resell. There are scavengers who this Government has decided to re-label waste pickers. The Government has even made them partners in trying to achieve the goals of solid waste management.

Please, hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, find time to visit the Chunga Land Fill and see how garbage trucks that dump rubbish from Shoprite, butcheries, Kabulonga and Sunningdale are swamped by Zambians who have camped and live on the dump site. Scavengers are cleaning up and taking contaminated foodstuff back on the market. This is a total degeneration of law and order. There are some armed police officers at the dump site who are helpless and cannot do anything about these people because they know that is their only means of survival. We need the Government to establish protected dump sites in all the seventy-two districts of this country. Hon. Minister, do not just brag about this modern land fill at Chunga because Zambia is bigger than Lusaka.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity you gave me to debate this vote.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate in support of this vote.

From the outset, let me state that the budget allocation for the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is not enough. The MMD Government is not serious about decentralisation. The Government has always been singing about decentralisation, but it has never implemented it. The Government has even gone further to deprive councils the means to raise funds through collection of rentals, but now it is saying it will give grants to councils. First of all, the MMD Government sold all the houses where councils were making a bit of money from. Today, the Government has gone further and stopped councils from collecting the grain levy. It does not want people to pay the levy. The Government is claiming to be decentralising. To borrow the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing’s words, local government is at the centre of the people.

Mr Chairperson, the 4 per cent of the budget has been allocated to local government is not enough for administrative functions. I believe there is this fighting because they think that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing will be too powerful. Money is being held through Loans and Investments, but it is administered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. There is quite a bit of money there, but it has not been released to local government. All hon. Members of the Government have talked about what the CDF has done. Once money has been released through the CDF, schools, clinics and other infrastructure will be developed and the Government appreciates this. Why not equip local government with enough funds for them to operative effectively?  Why are you being selective? You are hanging on top there with K3 trillion …


Mr Muntanga: You do not understand. The best thing you can do is ZAMBEEF and killing animals.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, it appears that the MMD Government does not believe in the Decentralisation Policy because if they did, they could have allocated10 per cent of the budget to local government which could have been K2 trillion and this would have done something. If you look at the budget for local government, of the K900 billion allocation, K320 billion is meant for management while K640 is for investment. Why are you doing this? If we come into power and when we do, …

Hon. Government Members: You wish!

Mr Muntanga: …we will show you what budgeting for decentralisation is. If you budget properly, you will see a lot of developmental activities taking place.

Mr Chairperson, let me now comment on the water utility companies that have been set up. The local water utility companies never paid anything to the councils. How do you expect councils to operate if water utility companies never paid anything? They took over all the facilities from the councils. Today, they are failing to manage the water utilities properly. Can the Government send auditors to the water utility companies and find out what they are doing with the money they raise?

Mr Chairperson, besides connection fees, they are also asking people to donate money as investment contribution. How does a company ask its clients to contribute K2.5 million to buy pipes because it wants to connect water to their section or area? That is as good as buying shares in that company. If these companies do not have enough capital, why can they not sell their shares on the stock exchange? They should become public companies so that people can own shares. There is a new mode that has come up, “Pay and steal”. I am requesting the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to go and investigate the Southern Water and Sewerage Company in the Southern Province which asked people in Kalomo to pay K2.5 million as investment contribution for them to connect water to their areas. We refused and demanded to know who was supposed to bring investment to the area.

Hon. Opposition Members: Use your money!

Mr Muntanga: The pipes that were laid by the councils are blocked, but these water utility companies want to extend the responsibility of buying pipes to residents. What sort of Government is this? The Government has failed to buy pipes to connect water, and yet there is money under Loans and Investments at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Why not fund the Ministry of Local Government and Housing adequately so that councils can plan properly? Whatever we demand for from the Government, all of you are saying, “Use the CDF.” What are you doing with the money at Central Government? If you accept that the CDF is doing fine, allocate K2 billion to each constituency and then you can proudly say you have done well. Well, you have not done well; it us who have done well instead.

   I can go to a constituency for an MMD hon. Member of Parliament and will not see any proper utilisation of the CDF. In some constituencies, there have been cases of the CDF being disbursed, but used for other things. Even the courts have confirmed such instances.

Hon. Opposition Members: Sure?

Mr Muntanga: Yes. An MMD hon. Member of Parliament was convicted in the North-Western Province because of such acts. There was another case where somebody was convicted in Mulobezi.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, you are not sincere about decentralisation. If you need ten boreholes per district and you only budget for one borehole per district, then what is that? Water is life. Certain places have no water at all and the place is dry. The only way to get water is to dig deeper. If not, you have to construct a dam.

The UNIP Government had what they called regional plans. That is when most roads were constructed. At least, Hon. Munkombwe can remember that. You put up all those roads during regional plans. That is the time ridges were made to prevent the destruction of rivers and dams. Your commitments will be in vain if your budgeting policies remain the way they are. You should stop singing about decentralisation when you have no commitment.

Mr Chairperson, the next point is on fire tenders. We have been talking about the need to equip the fire unit with proper fire tenders. In Lusaka, the same old fire brigade building left by the colonial government is still there. There is only one old fire tender that is limping. When there is a fire, the Fire Brigade has to be assisted by the only fire tender from the airport and they will try to put off the fire for forty-eight hours with no success. They are risking lives of people.

You say you got some fire tenders from Europe. These vehicles were destined for destruction, but when someone went there and saw them, he ordered them for Zambia. These vehicles could not even be driven from there. They had to be put on big vehicles for them to reach Lusaka. Some of the vehicles could not be driven to districts. That is Zambia under the MMD Government. Why do you do that? When you promised us that you would go to Japan to buy fire tenders, you should have brought new fire tenders. His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, you were saying that there is development at Manda Hill. If they do not bring proper fire tenders, when there is a fire at Manda Hill, everybody shopping at that particular time will die. We are, therefore, urging you to bring proper fire tenders.

Mr Chairperson, I was at the Fire Brigade the other day and I said to myself, “What is going on in Zambia? Why are we failing to do the right thing?” There is a fire station opposite the Evelyn Hone College. It is a three story building and if there will be a fire there, we will not even manage to put it off because the fire tender there is old.  You are buying these small vans for the “Keep Zambia and Clean Campaign” and they can hardly carry anything. You even knew that Zambians would be dying and that is why you brought the, katenga malilo, the hearses.

Mr Chairperson, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, if you gave the Department of Water Affairs proper drilling machines and equipped each province, the story of charging K40 million per borehole would not be there. If you have your own drilling machine, the cost of drilling a borehole, including fuel and the casings is only about K10 milllion. Now we are paying K20 million to K30 million per borehole. People are now buying drilling machines because they want to make money from the Government. We will now take stock and see who owns these drilling machines. Why are you not doing the right thing? We have told you to construct dams and you have budgeted for three dams for the whole country. A dry area such as Mapatizhya needs more dams. This is free advice. Why should you praise yourselves for constructing three dams? What a Government. Look at you.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson,…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member has been debating very well and suddenly he is attacking innocent people who are listening to him. Can the hon. Member debate properly and avoid pointing fingers at people.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, in fact, when I said, “Look at you,” I meant the Chair. Through you, Mr Chairperson, look at them.


Mr Muntanga: I want them to be looked at and they should search their own hearts and ask themselves if they are doing the right thing. Is this the right way to go? The other time I was debating here, I told them to say, when you do the correct thing, you will even be able to praise yourselves. Therefore, if you do that, I will join you and even be happy that we are doing well. His honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has told us there will be a budget records building and we have accepted.

Mr Chairperson, there is a hospital that you have not finished building to date. I am, therefore, requesting the hon. Minister of Health to finish building that hospital. They could not even announce that there was a hospital that was being built there. If the Ministry of Local Government and Housing decentralises properly, even hospital buildings and school buildings will be a responsibility of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. That is local governance and local administration. As hon. Minister, you will just be smiling because all you have to do is check what is going on at the local level. You should go and learn from other countries that have decentralised properly. There will be a unit where you are going to say that you are making dams, drilling boreholes and building schools in different areas, but with local governance at local councils that are properly funded, things will move. We do not need to come to your offices to beg. You like being praised every time. I do not have the time to praise you today. I will do it next time and we will see if you will be happy.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

The Deputy Chairperson: Before I call on another hon. Member, may I beg that we keep time. If you are all taking fifteen minutes to debate, there will be very few people to talk before I cartel because we need to make progress. Take account of the fact that as many people as possible can speak during the time allocated for this but, if you are going for fifteen minutes, I will have to cartel the debate on three or four people because time has to be taken into account.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the vote on the Floor of this House.

Hon. PF Member: Yes mmma! Hammer them!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Sir, I will start with the CDF which is very important money that trickles down to the grassroots and the people in the constituencies use it as they wish. They make decisions and use the money accordingly.

  I have seen that the hon. Minister has increased the CDF a bit. We would have loved to see a bigger increment. It would have been better if we could have moved from K660 million to K900 million or even a billion.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Chairperson, I would now like to talk about the new guidelines of the CDF now, which make an hon. Member of Parliament seem like an outsider when it comes to the administration of the fund. The hon. Member of Parliament is a major stakeholder in the CDF. After all, the money goes to the constituency because there is a hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Lubinda: Even George Kunda agrees.

Mr Sinyangwe:  Therefore, when you say that the council is going to identify the members of the CDF and then, the same council is going to administer the money as well as any other related work, where is accountability? Supposing those in a council pick people they know they can work with to do whatever they want then, what role will an hon. Member of Parliament play? I think we better look into these guidelines again so that we can do the right thing because it is only an Member of Parliament who knows the people who have the interest of the people on the ground and that they could work on this committee due to the interaction that he or she has with the people.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sinyangwe: Mr Chairperson, the problem that we have right now is how to run our projects because they are taking too long. One wonders what the administrative costs are being spent on in this case. So much money is released by the Government, without any proper monitoring and administration. I will give an example.

Last year in March, a bridge fell down in my constituency. This bridge is also used by children to go to school. The committee sat and approved the project, but up to day, we are still struggling with that project. I start to wonder why we paid out K20 million or whatever amount it was when nothing has been done and the money can be used to do another project.

Sir, let me now look at issues to do with water. I think our water utility company is overwhelmed. When it was dealing with Lusaka only, maybe, it was performing better. Right now, I think that it is overwhelmed because it has to deal with Chongwe, Kafue and Rufunsa. I think something must be done about this matter. I would like the hon. Minister to look into it very critically.

Matero had to do without water for many years, but thanks to Government for coming to our aid.  There was a big project for water and we were included in it. I would like to thank the late President, Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. for coming to commission the water facility in my constituency. Despite the facility having excited people when it was commissioned, its current water supply is erratic. I receive phone calls all the time that there is no water in my constituency. If we continue like this in the rainy season, people in some places will resort to sinking boreholes and digging shallow wells. Then, when people do that, what do you expect? Cholera. I do not think we want go that way.

 Mr Lubinda: Hard working Government!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Secondly, when the water project which was comprehensive was done in Matero, the sanitation part was left out. What is happening is that since there was no water passing through the sewer pipes, when it started flowing through them, they started bursting all over the place. When you move around my constituency today, you will see sewer waste all over. It is not a pleasure to move around my constituency at the moment. Please, can we have a programme that is going to look at sanitation so that the people can use their toilets properly. The sewer ponds are also becoming a problem to the people of Matero Constituency especially those in Chunga. When you go there in the evening, you will find an offensive smell in the area. I would like to see something done about that, so that the place can be made habitable.

Mr Lubinda: Tell them! Sibamvela aba!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Sir, let me now talk about unplanned settlements. I think the people who give illegal plots must be dealt with. We make pronouncement and put up taskforces regarding the allocation of illegal plots, but I do not see anything being done in that regard. Right now, people are building in the school grounds. Schools like Chingwere and Hillside have become victims of these illegal settlements. The people are also building in the graveyards. I do not know even who to report to because when you talk about such issues it is like you are talking to nobody.

I have told the people in my constituency that people will come and demolish structures which are illegally built on school grounds. There is even a big house which was built recently on one of the school grounds. Now, what do we do? I think just talking about it is not good enough. These people must be dealt with severely. When you come to my constituency, I would support you in your efforts to sort out the problem because I do not believe in cheap popularity which would make me ask you not to demolish illegal structures because I think that the same people are going to vote for me. When they are wrong, they are wrong and I am going to support you. You should come and demolish those illegal structures because they are built on school premises. The school grounds need to be used for the intended purposes. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sinyangwe: The township roads need a lot of money and that is where we need the CDF. I would like to thank Government for working on the Zingalume Road which was a headache to most of the people in my constituency. We are also doing a lot of work on our roads as a constituency.

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The people are very happy with the works that have been done on the roads in my constituency, but we need to do more. There are roads that are key to the people in my constituency like the road that goes to Chingwere Clinic, which is a major clinic for the people in the area. We have tried to grade it, but failed to achieve anything worth talking about.  I think that road needs to be seriously looked at by the Government.

Mr Chairperson, Matero is one constituency that has no market. I am now trying to question the criterion which was used to give Hon. Lubinda …

Mr Lubinda: Aah!


Mrs Sinyangwe: … three big markets when there is nothing in my constituency. How fair is this? You know, I do not understand what really happened for things to be the way they are. I would like to urge the hon. Minister to look into this issue seriously.

When you go to my constituency, you will find people selling food in open air areas which are breeding ground for cholera. People may be tempted to think the outbreak has been caused by the carelessness of the people of Matero. As residents, we have tried to sensitise our people to do everything possible to live in clean surroundings. However, the fact that we need proper markets cannot be overemphasized. It is important because that is where food comes from. Therefore, not having proper markets is a big problem.

Mr Chairperson, you advised us to try if we could not to finish the fifteen minutes, thus I end here.

 I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, I rise to support the budget for the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I would have desired that there was a bit more money than has been allocated now specifically to the decentralisation initiative so that maybe the song that we have been singing for a long time will come to an end.

Sir, I want to take bits of the debate of Hon. Sinyangwe as my own except the ones which were connected to Lusaka issues because I do not associate with them.


Miss Imbwae:  I am only taking, as my own, the parts of her debate that were national in nature. May I also congratulate her for her good debate.

In his statement, the hon. Minister was saying that the goal of the Government is enhanced decentralisation and democracy. I am just trying to paraphrase what he said. The ultimate aim is to reach efficiency in the delivery of services.

Mr Chairperson, amongst the first points he made was the issue of right-sizing councils and then he moved on to sector devolution. I hope that with the money he has, he will re-look at the issue of right-sizing the councils at their various levels so that we will know that every level, whether we are dealing with the district, municipal or the city councils, has its own standards. By this, I mean the staffing levels and the activities taking place in each of those councils. This way, we will know that the whole country is moving in unison.

Mr Chairperson, at present, I am not sure of what is happening in many of our rural councils. Although I can make reference to my council, I would like to discuss this issue seriously at national level.

Mr Chairperson, we do have examples in this country on what should be done in our local councils. There was a time when Lusaka was the garden city of Africa and Chingola and Luanshya were the cleanest cities.

Mr Lubinda: When Ba VJ was there.

Ms Imbwae: Mr Chairperson, when you look at what is happening now, you start to wonder what the problem is. It is not because we do not know what to do or that we do not have examples, but something has gone wrong with our staffing and capacity level of administration. People were proud to work for the local government and this was the time when they were employing more qualified people than is the case at the moment. The time I left campus, people preferred to work in the local authorities than to join the Central Government but, at the moment, it is not the case. However, the hope is in making sure that local government works because the majority of people are found at that level.

Mr Chairperson, when the hon. Minister talked about sector improvement in managing decentralisation, there are examples of the days of the Zambia Social Investment Fund (ZAMSIF) when councils were at different levels. All those who were at level one provided similar services and those that moved to level four managed did the same. However, when you go to councils now, you do not know what type of services they provide. Therefore, I have a problem in understanding the talk about decentralisation and I hope, when the hon. Minister winds up debate, he will help me in this vein.

Mr Chairperson, during the days of Kaunda, when we had the One Party Participatory Democracy, we talked about various implementation of decentralisation and, at one time, each council had eight secretaries, whether they deserved to have them or not. That was extravagant, but if we further look back, there are certain things we can pick from there so that each council is assured of having quality staff that will deliver the services required. When the hon. Minister talked about this, he only tied it to the relationship amongst chiefs, but I would further like to tie it to the relationship shared between hon. Members of Parliament and councillors.

Mr Chairperson, the issue which I consistently keep hearing, in response to questions, is that of particular councils being controlled by the MMD, Patriotic Front (PF) or whatever party. What is all that in a nation that is one? What is it that we cannot do to make sure that we work together regardless of the party that we belong to? Are we saying that there is no democracy and so one has to belong to a certain party to be recognised? Democracy is for all and the Government needs to be clear about where it is taking this country.

Mr Chairperson, the relationships in councils are soured by people who are not supposed to do that. Some people do not want to see things working right for the ordinary people.

Hon. Member: Niba PF!

Ms Imbwae: They do not want that. They want to see things going wrong and then hide in wrong doings.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: It is not right …

Ms Imbwae spoke facing downwards.

Ms Imbwae: I am facing downwards because the Hon. Minister is seated right next to me here.

It is not right for us not to address the development of this country, which is a place where we can be proud to be called Zambian.

The issue of the CDF has been addressed by Hon. Sinyangwe and Hon. Muntanga and I take their comments on guidelines as my own. If the hon. Members are going to be marginalised, you will find it difficult to control some of the things that you think you can control without them. It is not every hon. Member of Parliament who is a thief – sorry that word is unparliamentary and I withdraw it. It is not every hon. Member who would want to use the money meant for the people on themselves without following the right procedures. What I have seen as a problem in some councils, especially in Lukulu, is that the 10 per cent is used even before the project is implemented. So, where can the money to monitor and supervise projects be found after that money is taken?

Mr Chairperson, I have a particular issue to discuss with the hon. Minister later. However, for now, let me emphasise that the issue of area development committees is useful. This is because if we strengthen these committees, it will be good as the wards will decide what they want to do with their developmental initiative. That way, the councillors, whether they are branded MMD or anything else, will not impose what they want to be done on the people. This is because the committees would have looked at things that affect everyone in their respective areas.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Chairperson, I would like to end by stating one or two things before giving a chance to other people to debate. The Local Government Service Commission should start showing us that there is hope in its coming back because if it does not begin to put the right type of staff in the right places, depending on the type of council we are dealing with, then we are just wasting time in re-introducing it since it will not get us anywhere. However, we expect that the commission will do something to change the face of this country.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I would like to state that the issue of water and sanitation is very important to the people of Lukulu West. If we are not flooded and forced to drink dirty muddy water, then we have steep banks where, especially in schools, the children are sent to fetch water because the teachers cannot do it. In addition, the rivers are crocodile infested.

Therefore, as the Government reconsiders sinking the ten boreholes in each constituency, it must revisit the issue of the money which was given in previous years for the sinking of boreholes. The Government should tell us where the money has gone by showing us where the boreholes have been sunk. If this has not been done, there should be no selective punishment or prosecutions. We would like to see that all the moneys given for boreholes and extending council chambers is used for the purposes intended, if not, bring everybody to book.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this vote.

Mr Chairperson, I listened attentively to the purported policy statement by the Minister of Local Government and Housing on the management of Local Authorities in Zambia. It is my considered view that the MMD Government has no policy, whatsoever, pertaining to the management of local authorities in Zambia. It is high time, the MMD Government realised that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is one of the most important ministries in this country because it affects the lives of the people. Local Government is the Government that is directly attached and directly affects the people of this country. It is only when the Government will realise that it is only local Government that will show that the Government is performing and that they will ensure that adequate resources are put in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Chairperson, the MMD Government has been praising itself that for attracting investors and tourists to come to this country. However, it is forgetting one important factor. It is forgetting that for one to attract tourists into a country one needs to have an enabling environment. There is a need for an environment that will ensure that when the tourists come to this country, they are safe in terms of hygiene, security and provision of passable roads. Unfortunately, this is one country that is priding itself as being the dirtiest in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is a fact.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, that is a fact I stand to be corrected and I fear no contradiction over this matter. If you visit Lusaka and other towns as they are now, you will find that, actually, there is a lot of squalor.

Lieutenant General Shikapwasha: Kinshasa.

Mr Mwiimbu: Kinshasa has been in a situation of war. Zambia has never been in a war situation …

Lieutenant General Shikapwasha: You are telling lies.

Mr Mwiimbu: .. and Kinshasa is improving better than Lusaka as the situation is obtaining now.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member of Parliament debating has mentioned that there is a record to show that this is the dirtiest country and is priding in it. Is there any documentary evidence to that effect?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, records do not have to be written, records can be factual as on the ground.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order hon. Member!

You said that it is on record. So, what is the record you are referring to? Which documentary evidence is that?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I did not talk about documentary evidence, I talked of record. The record is the evidence in the streets.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muyanda: The eyes can see.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, the eyes can see what is there.

The Deputy Chairperson: I think, in that case, you have to withdraw the word evidence as stated and restate your position properly.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to withdraw the word record as it is being misunderstood and state that Zambia is the dirtiest country in the SADC region based on what is obtaining on the ground.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, all of us who reside in Lusaka and other areas are able to see the squalor in which our people are wallowing, unless you have no eyes to see. You go to Kamwala and you will see what is obtaining on the ground. You go to the City Market, and you will see the squalor under which our people are operating from. There is evidence.


Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, I am not saying Monze Market is the cleanest in Zambia, but it is better than those in Kalabo.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the Government has been looking at the effects and not the causes of the problems in the local Government system. I did hear my friends mention that in the 1970s, the local authorities in Zambia were one of the most properly managed in Africa. People were aspiring to work for local authorities in Zambia. Unfortunately, the situation is no longer the same. All the local authorities in this country have collapsed. There is no council in this country that can be said to be operating efficiently. There is no council that is providing the requisite services to the people of this country. None whatsoever. This is because of the poor policies of the MMD Government. The MMD Government tends to think that councils can survive on their own without funding from the Central Government, without the support of the requisite taxes. Even in the developed countries, there is no council that can stand on its own. They derive their income from shared taxes between the Central and local Government councils. This is not the situation in this country.

Mr Chairperson, this Government has been telling people and the councils that they should be able to stand on their own. How do you expect a council such as Shang’ombo to stand on its own with only one banana boat?


Mr Mwiimbu: Where do you expect them to derive their income from? Most of the councils are unable to pay their statutory contributions because of the poor policies of the Government.

Mr Chairperson, there are more than seventy-two councils in this country Do you honestly believe that all these councils are managed by poor managers? Are we saying that all these councils are managed by ill-qualified managers? The answer is no. It is the systems put in place that have been failing the people of this country.

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwiimbu: It is the systems. The MMD Government, from the time it came into office, in 1991, has been systematically destroying the local Government system. It has introduced laws which have destroyed the revenue base of councils. When the councils fail it says that councils are failing the people of this country.

Mr Chairperson, fortunately, we only have, maybe, less than eight months to go before the next elections and I have no doubt in my mind that the Government that will come into office, next year, will address the issues of the local Government system. I willd ensure that the people of this country have safe clean water and a good environment in which to operate in. Unfortunately, the MMD Government has failed. Any Government’s performance is determined just by the performance of the local Government system. If there are no good roads, that Government is not performing. I have no doubt in my mind that this MMD Government has failed because there are no good roads that are obtaining in Zambia. There are none.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: The MMD Government has failed because it has decided to make cholera one of the yearly celebrations in this country. Very soon, the MMD Government will be dancing to celebrate cholera, especially in Lusaka because of its failures.

Mr Lubinda: And the guest of honour, we know him.

Mr Mwiimbu: And we know the guest of honour for the cholera celebration.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we have been losing a lot of lives as a result of cholera, but we are not putting any stringent measures in place to ensure that we eradicate cholera. Cholera is a disease that arises out of squalor and a dirty environment. I do not think there will be anyone in this House who will be proud to be associated with cholera. We must be seen to be putting measures in place to ensure that cholera does not recur in this country.

   One of the major strides we are trying to make is developing tourism by attracting more tourists. I do not see tourists coming to Zambia if cholera is a perennial problem in this country because they are sensitive to diseases. I know that some hon. Ministers, my colleagues who are making running comments, behave like husbands …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Would you just ignore them and continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: I will not mention any specific person. I want to state that some people behave like husbands who blame the former husbands if they fail to make their wives pregnant.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, what I am suggesting to this Government is to put in place good policies that will ensure that the requisite finances are provided for the local government system. As long as we do not have a thriving local government system in this country, the people of Zambia will always blame the Ruling Party and vote it out.

I can assure you that 90 per cent of the hon. Members of Parliament on your right are going. Come next year, they will not come back after the elections.


Mr Mwiimbu: This is because of the poor policies they have put in place pertaining to local government. Local government affects people directly.

Mr Chairperson, let me now turn to the people on this side. Apart from those who have rebelled against us, nearly all of us are coming back …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … because we are speaking on behalf of the people. Unless they drastically change their policies …

Hon. UPND Members: It is too late.

Mr Mwiimbu: I hear it is too late. However, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice mentioned this morning that the MMD is able to perform miracles. As a Catholic, I thought that he knows that there are no more miracles that can be performed in Zambia.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to speak on behalf of Livingstone City Council. Livingstone City Council has been on suspension for more than two years now. The council has been suspended with a view to protecting an individual. Why should an individual be protected at the expense of residents and duly-elected members of Livingstone City Council? I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to revisit the suspension of Livingstone City Council. If the hon. Minister fails to do this, I will call upon all the councillors in Livingstone to resign. Considering the fact that the majority of them are MMD councillors, it just shows that the MMD does not value its councillors in Livingstone. The Ruling Party does not want its councillors to be of service to it. If you are not regarded by your own party, why should you remain in that party?

Hon. UPND Members: Resign!

Mr Mwiimbu: If my colleagues in Livingstone are principled councillors, they should resign if the Government does not revist the council’s suspension.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, I am going to give one more person a chance to debate. However, I think we are talking about the same things such as CDF, the alleged dirtiness of towns as well as water problems. Almost everyone who has spoken has talked about these things. I will give Mr Zulu a chance.  However, if he also repeats the same issues, I will have to stop debate on this matter and we will move on.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote for the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. In supporting this Vote, I will start by thanking the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for building a new market in Ndeke.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: I also want to thank the ministry for rehabilitating the roads in my constituency, namely Lukasu and Chambeshi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I am going to look at the issue of water reticulation from a different angle. This is a very important issue …

Mr Masebo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is it on procedure?

Mrs Masebo: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Masebo: Mr Chairperson, you have made a ruling that you will not give any more hon. Members a chance to speak. Is it fair that only those on your left should speak? We have Back Benchers here representing our constituencies. I am not part of the Executive and I think it is extremely unfair that some of us should be excluded from speaking on this matter.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member must recall that I have said that if there is repetition, I am going to curtail debate on this vote. I also said that I am going to give Mr Zulu an opportunity to debate so that I see if there will be new ideas coming from him. We cannot continue talking about the same things simply because you are in the Back Bench of the MMD. We will have to make progress. If the hon. Member on the Floor brings out new issues, then, maybe, I will give another person a chance to debate, but not necessarily you.

Mr Zulu may continue.

Mr Zulu: Chairperson, I was saying the issue of water reticulation is very important. The people of Zambia are paying huge bills for water supply at the moment. This is due to poor and old infrastructure. I will give you an example of what is going on. Many years ago, when I was a young water engineer in Livingstone, the loss of water due to leakages was in the range of 10 per cent.

Mr Chairperson, let me give you the current figures on the loss of water due to leakages. I will start with Kafubu Water and Sewerage Company, which is in Ndola where my constituency is. This company is supposed to provide water for twenty-four hours. However, the amount of water lost due to leakages, believe it or not, is 24 billion litres per year. As for Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company, it loses 30 billion litres of water per year. Lukanga Water and Sewerage Company, which is a small company, is losing 6.5 billion litres of treated water annually. Nkana Water and Sewerage Company in Kitwe loses 23.8 billion litres per year. This is a lot of water that we are losing. Therefore, councils need to repair water infrastructure so that we have twenty-four hour water supply in every district.

Mr Chairperson, as regards roads in townships, there is one particular issue which the Ministries of Works and Supply and Local Government and Housing should address in order to harmonise the relationship between the Road Development Agency (RDA) and councils. Councils are running away from their responsibility of road maintenance. For example, if there is a big pothole on a road in Mazabuka, an engineer will have to come from Livingstone to inspect this pothole and then go back to Livingstone to prepare a bill of qualities for tender. Not even the RDA has a maintenance team and, therefore, all maintenance works have to be tendered. This process takes a long time. Meanwhile, the pothole will grow bigger and even help develop smaller potholes nearby.


Mr Zulu: So, let us improve the relationship between councils and the RDA so that the councils which are nearer to the people can handle small issues.

Mr Chairperson, I was surprised to hear Hon. Sinyangwe talk about illegal structures. Why should we have illegal structures because plans are supposed to be approved by the council before any property is developed? When the property developers dig their foundation, they are supposed to bring inspectors to check on their work. So why should we have illegal structures? This is really a sad situation. Let us strengthen our inspectorate units in the councils so that we can have buildings of a high quality.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who brought out a lot of issues in their debates for supporting this budget. However, there were a few issues that were completely misleading that need clarification.

Let me start with issues to do with the BADEA-Zambia contract. I want to state that the though the process has taken a bit long, it is definitely on course. The contract budget is US$ 11.2 million. The feasibility studies and preparation of bidding document have been done. The only thing that has remained are the civil works which are going to start early next year. So something is being done with regard to that contract.

Mr Chairperson, another issue which was raised is that the ministry had eroded income base. However, you should not expect the policy statement to talk about all the issues affecting the local government system. Perhaps people who thought that way have not viewed my statement as a policy statement. Clearly, people are entitled to their own opinions. I have taken into account the very constructive suggestions with regard to how we can strengthen the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Chairperson, an interesting suggestion was made on the Floor of the House that perhaps the ministry should be renamed as the Ministry of Local Government, Housing and Village Development. However, we all know in this House that the prerogative of naming or renaming ministries is a preserve of the President. However, I take note of the reasoning behind that suggestion. The hon. Member who made that suggestion wants to emphasise the need to be spreading the resources not only in the urban, but also rural areas as well. We need to recognise that there is a need for proper water and sanitation facilities as well as other developments in the rural areas.

Mr Chairperson, I also note that there has been concern with regard to the CDF. It is clear that this initiative by the MMD Government and this House has been very beneficial because this is money that impacts the lives directly of the local people in various areas. We really have to tailor our suit according to the material we have. Let me also state that some constituencies have used the CDF in a very disappointing manner. Since we are all at different levels of development, the Government has increased the CDF to K720 millions so that we can all match with one step. 

 Let me repeat and, perhaps, emphasise …


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Chituwo: … that we have only one operational CDF guideline. There have been consultations over the CDF guidelines, which I understand have been taken up by the councils. The fact of the matter is that it is only the 2006 guideline that is in operation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: It appears that there is confusion about the consultative process. We have not even reached out to hon. Members of Parliament for their comments as regards the improvement of the would be CDF guidelines. Please, get it from me. Consequently, the Permanent Secretary will be instructed to send out a circular to tell councils that there are no new CDF guidelines.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, as a Government, we realise that water is life. This is why I mentioned, in my statement, that we intend to sink more than two thousand boreholes for our people.

Mr Chairperson, there has been and there still will be need for more, but we can only do what we can with the available funds.

Sir, as regards markets, we acknowledge the assistance from the European Union (EU) that has enabled us construct markets in Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe. Our plan is to extend this to all provinces. We will continue along this path.

Mr Chairperson, on the issue of ZANAMA, I would like to state that it has the right of association and expression as provided by the Constitution of Zambia. Therefore, if people come together with a common cause and objective, they are protected under our Constitution.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: However, the Government will not tolerate any group of people or individuals to think that they can flout the law. So, if any organisation breaches the law that this House has enacted, certainly, the law will visit them. There are no exceptions. If a group of people wish to improve their cause, they are free and are protected under the Constitution.

Mr Chairperson, let me end by saying that we take note of the need for us to improve the fire fighting equipment. In my statement, I mentioned that we have ordered a fire fighting ladder, amongst the fire fighting equipment we have ordered, to assist the fire fighters reach skyscrappers that we have such as Manda Hill and those in the town centre. This is a continuous process and we will try to ensure that we manage disasters quickly.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, let me address the issue of the Livingstone City Council. It is not correct that the council has been on suspension for two years. It has only been on suspension since February, 2010.

Mr Chairperson, the Livingstone City Council issue is an indication of the fairness and the seriousness of the MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: The suspension is an indication that there is no discrimination because the Livingstone Council is dominated by the MMD. As far as we are concerned, if they do something wrong, they should not be allowed to go scot-free.

Hon. Member: Tensoni?

Dr Chituwo: For us, what matters most in local governance is that quality service is delivered to our people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Development should be the language. There should be no partisan issues in the administration of our councils.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: We will review the issues at the Livingstone Municipal Council.
Dr Chituwo: I am not sure about Lukulu, but those are issues that can be sorted out in a very short time.

Mr Chairperson, let me end by thanking all hon. Members of Parliament who have debated on this vote. I would like to assure them that, in terms of decentralisation, all that I put there is an indication of the seriousness of decentralisation. This is the devolution of functions for line ministries because we recognise that for development to occur, national development has to occur at local council level where our people live. Therefore, we are serious about decentralisation and this is why we are suggesting K3.2 billion for the Decentralisation Implementation Secretariat.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 20/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 20/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 20/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 29/08 – (Ministry of Local Government and Housing – House of Chiefs Department – K21,119,118,133).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 2, Programme 8, Activity 02 – House of Chiefs Sessions – K1, 810,000,000. Why is there a reduction from K2,108,400,000 to K1,810,000,000.  Are we having a reduction in sessions?

Sir, secondly, on the same Programme 8, Activity 04 – By-elections for House of Chiefs Members – K120,000,000.  There is a reduction from K200,000,000 to K120,000,000. What criteria was used to come up with that reduction and what by-elections we are expecting.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, the reduction is due to the anticipated reduced number of sessions. As for programme 8, Activity 04 – By-Elections for House of Chiefs – K120,000,000, the reduction is due to the budgetary constraints and that is what we can afford to provide to cater for the services in this year’s Budget.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 29/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 29/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – K48,287,685,111).

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to table for consideration the 2011 Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for my ministry.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debated adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
(Progress reported)

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 9th November, 2010.