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Debates- Thursday, 11th November, 2010
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 11th November, 2010
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
______
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
PROJECTS IN HEALTH SECTOR
The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to brief the House and the nation at large on the on-going projects in the health sector.
Mr Speaker, the vision of the Ministry of Health is to take health services as close to the family as possible. This Government values the human being. The Ministry of Health has realised that the human being is at the pinnacle of this Government’s existence. Therefore, to serve the people of Zambia in a very responsible way, the ministry has four responsibilities among others. These are human resources, drugs, equipment and infrastructure. However, this statement only addresses the issue of infrastructure.
Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Ministry of Health, has continued with the development and improvement of health infrastructure countrywide. In so doing, the ministry continues to build health posts, health centres, clinics, hospitals and accommodation for health staff.
Mr Speaker, I have used the phrase ‘continues to build’ because this is His Excellency, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda’s instructions to the ministry to quickly improve the infrastructure in the health sector. Therefore, the ministry has built the following 323 health posts that are ready for commissioning:
Province Number of Health Posts
Northern 30
Western 40
Southern 44
Eastern 37
Copperbelt 14
North-Western 16
Luapula 19
Lusaka 02
Central 28
Mr Speaker, the names of the health posts are as follows:
Southern Province
District Name of Institution
Namwala Baambwe
Kasenga
Gwembe Luumbo
Chamwe
Chisanga
Choma Moyo
Kazimaulu
Siamuleya
Harmony
Batoka
Pemba
Monze Nteme
Banakaila
Nadongo
Kaumba
Keemba
Malundu
Chisekesi
Kanundwa
Siavonga Namoomba
Nabutezi
Hachipilika
Katwezele
Itezhi-tezhi Bushinga
Kaanzwa
Kazungula Sikaunzwe
Mandia
Nyawa
Kauwe
Nanyati
Mazabuka Chikani
Simwamba
Terranova
Mweemba
Kalomo Bbilili
Chilala
Kanchele
Nakowa
Simwatachela
Sinazongwe Sulwegonde
Muziyo
Muuka
Nabukowa
Siampondo
Livingstone Kasiya
Northern Province
Mpika Chinkobo
Luchembe
Chibansa
Mapoma
Isoka Mwenewisi
Kapililonga
Lualizi
Chanama
Nzoche
Kantesha
Luwingu Kalaba
Njoko
Laurent Chita
Chilubi Chitunkubwe
Mubili
Kaputa Kapepula
Kakoma
Mporokoso Njalamimba
Kasama Chisanga
Mbala Kavumbo
Mpulungu Kaizya
Chibote
Kasakalabwe
Kalongola
Chinsali Kalalwa
Nkula
Nakonde Mayembe
Mukalize
Kaombwe
Brahim
Western Province
Mongu Nasange
Ikabako
Namengo
Sibongo
Lwatembo
Ilute
Kaoma Namando
Mutondo
Lunyati
Longe
Kabilamwandi
Mulwa
Nkeyema
Senanga Sikumbi
Liangati
Mapungu
Namabunga
Wanyau
Ngundi
Shang’ombo Shang’ombo
Siwewele
Liabangu
Kalabo Situli
Lutwi
Liumena
Lola
Sesheke Lumbe
Mulauli
Situlu
Sejamba
Lusu
Lukulu Mataba
Kasheke
Lubosi
Liuanchuma
Lukau
Eastern Province
Mambwe Mphomwa
Chilanga
Masumba
Nyakatokoli
Chadiza Mlawe
Sinalo
Madzaela
Chama Mwalala
Kalovya
Chigoma
Nthokonkho
Buli
Lundazi Hoya
Egichikeni
Mkomba
Zokwe
Chasera
Mkasanga
Mankhaka
Lukwizizi
Nyimba Chimphanje
Mtilizi
Petauke Mng’ona
Mtukuzi
Chaka
Sasu
Katete Seya
Chindeza
Kakula
Kafunkha
Chindwale
Chimtengo
Chipata Chinyaku
East Command
Mafuta
Mnukwa
Mlanga
Central Province
Mumbwa Chwela
Kabwanga
Naluvwi
Nakanjoli
Mpusu
Shachele
Kapepe
Kabwe Munga
Serenje Kafinda
Mulaunshi
Yoram Mwanje
Kanona
Kundalumwansha
Kapiri Mposhi Chitaba
Chapusha
Chishinka
Ngabwe
Mumbachala
Lunchu ‘B’
Mkushi Twatasha
Chembe
Kapelembe
Chibombo Chamakubi
Itumbwe
Mwanjuni
Mwapula
Chitanda
Lusaka Province
Lusaka Chaisa
Mwembeshi
Luapula Province
Mansa Mantumbusa
Nsonga
Chisunka
Mwense Musonda
Musalango
Kaoma Makasa
Mukanga
Lupososhi
Chalwe
Samfya Mpanta
Mano
Chipako
Kawambwa Kapako
Mambwe
Nchelenge Kapambwe
Kampampi
Matapala
Kefuflwa
St. Paul’s Nursing School.
Milenge Milenge East 7
Chipende
Kabange
Lwela
Chienge Kabwe
Kalembwe
Mwabu
North-Western Province
Solwezi Solwezi Hospital (maternity ward)
Kanzala (staff house)
Mwinilunga Jimbe (staff house)
Kamafumbu
Minyanya
Mukangala (staff house)
Zambezi Muyembe
Kabompo Ndungu (staff house)
Chavuma Nguvu
Mumfumbwe Nyansonso
Mumfumbwe Boma (staff house)
Chavuma Chingi Boarder (staff house)
Solwezi Chikola
Mwinilunga Tom Ilunga
Solwezi Kyawama
Kamisenga
Copperbelt Province
Chililabombwe Kakoso (expansion)
Lufwanyama Chantete
Matipa (Kasonka)
Mibenge
Nkana
Kamakanga
Masaiti Mukolwe
Bangwe
Michinka
Kalulushi Chembe
Lukoshi
Mpongwe Kalweo
Chibuli
Luamabwe
Mr Speaker, these are the completed health posts that will take health services closer to 969,000 Zambians in the rural areas.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this year, the Government is adding on to the number of health posts by building a further 125 health posts as follows:
Province Number of Health Posts
Northern 23
Western 18
Southern 14
Eastern 18
Copperbelt 10
North-Western 10
Luapula 13
Lusaka 7
Central 12
The health posts are broken down as follows, district by district:
Central province
District Name of Health Post
Mumbwa Nalusanga
Namakolongo
Musopelo
Kaputi
Serenje Musumani
Nakatambo
Rueben
Kabwe Kafulamse
Chaila
Kapiri Mposhi Kaswende
Laughter
Mr Simbao:
Mkushi Kanyesha
Mikunki
Copperbelt Province
Lufwanyama Lumwana
Kasanta
Masaiti Miputu
Mufulira Triple ‘S’ Basic School
Kalindini
Chililabombwe Fitobaula
Chingola Mushishima
Mpongwe Chisapa
Kalulushi Misenga
Luanshya Kapupula
Eastern Province
Chipata Mwasuka
Walela
Chipako
Chakalomo
Lunga
Mambwe Ncheka
Chama Chitukula
Kapiligizya
Lundazi Chanyalubwe
Kulikuli
Petauke Mtumbata
Mukonda
Katondi
Katema
Nyimba Chifukuzi
Katete Lukweta
Chadiza Kabvumo
Maziyela
Luapula Province
Mansa Chansa
Kale
Milenge Changwelungo
Kawambwa Mukanta
Nchelenge Toka
Chienge Chitunda
Samfya Kasoma Baungula
Matongo
Mweshi
Chikunyu
Chikuwe
Mwense Kabila
Kankoma
Lusaka Province
Lusaka George
Lilanda
Mpamba
Chongwe Mulalika
Kafue Chisakila
Luangwa Kaunga
Chilimba
North-Western Province
Solwezi Kasalala
Kamano
Kasempa Mbulimunene
Mufumbwe Lalafuta
Kabompo Chitebe
Kavungu
Zambezi Chizozu
Chavuma Lihukwa
Mwinilunga Nswana Kumdya
Northern Province
Kasama Katozi
Isoka Wiya
Sichitambule
Katyetye
Mungwi Chimbola
Nakonde Ilola
Mbala Chindo
Chomba
Mulefu
Chikunta
Mwenda
Nsokolo
Mporokoso Mpalapata
Chalabesa
Bweupe
Mpulungu Chilwa
Chinsali Mukwikile
Mutitima
Mpika Katibunga
Lukomwila
Luwingu Lukolongo
Kaputa Kasepa
Kashikishi
Southern Province
Livingstone Mahuluhulu
Chaba
Msokomeni
Kalomo Bulyambeba
Choma Habbanyka
Chilundu
Kabanga
Mazabuka Hapiku
Magoye
Monze Kayola
Nalutanda
Namwala Moomba
Ngabo
Itapa
Western Province
Mongu Mutaleti
Simaa
Kaoma Katoya
Namaloba
Nalulembe
Kangolongolo
Senanga Suu
Situnga
Sesheke Mangumwi
Sanembo
Ngweeze
Lukulu Mulungo
Kalabo Mabua
Mulinga
Mushukula
Ndoka
Mutala
Luoke
Mr Speaker, the construction of the health posts will start this year and will bring health services closer to 375,000 Zambians in the rural areas. Therefore, it must be noted that by July, 2011, the Government will provide health services to 1,344,000 Zambians in the rural areas.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Hospitals
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the President wants to see a continuation of the construction of hospitals. In total, we have thirty-two hospitals under construction as follows:
1st Level Hospitals (District Hospitals) 31
Province Number
Copperbelt 03
North/Western 03
Northern 03
Western 03
Central 04
Eastern 03
Lusaka 06
Luapula 04
Southern 02
Mr Speaker, in Lusaka Province we have also a General Hospital called Lusaka General Hospital.
The breakdown is as follows:
Province District Hospital
Central Kapiri Mposhi
Mumbwa
Serenje
Southern Choma
Namwala
Luapula Samfya
Chienge
Milenge
Mwense
Eastern Chadiza
Lundazi
Chama
Northern Nakonde
Kaputa
North-Western Mufumbwe
Lumwana
Western Mongu
Southern Namwala
Copperbelt Masaiti
Lufwanyama
Mr Speaker, the President has directed that all the hospitals be completed in time so that people can access high level medical services.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the completion and commissioning of the hospitals will start this year. Already the upgraded Chawama Hospital has been commissioned and is operational. Twelve more hospitals are going to be commissioned this year. Each of these hospitals caters for a population of 200,000 people. Therefore, the construction of thirty-two hospitals will provide for 6.4 million Zambians in districts, towns and cities. Zambians who did not have access to health services as close to their homes as possible will be able to so.
Mr Speaker, His Excellency President Rupiah Bwezani Banda instructed the Ministry of Health to provide accommodation for health workers. To this effect, the ministry embarked on the construction of 200 units outside the normal housing construction of one or two houses per health post or clinic. In this regard, the ministry is constructing houses for health workers as follows:
Province No. of Flats for Nurses and Paramedics No. of Flats for Doctors
Lusaka 64 24
Copperbelt 48 16
North-Western 16 –
Luapula 16 –
Eastern 16 –
Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that in addition to this, the Government, through the ministry, also negotiated a loan arrangement for the workers in the medical fraternity to access the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) loans to build houses. This facility has proved to be very popular and has been accessed by many workers. The President’s wish is that by the end of his second term in 2016, …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Simbao: … 60 per cent of all health workers will be home owners while 40 per cent of them will be constructing their own houses, but housed by the Government.
Mr Speaker, I must say that those who want to build houses for medical personnel should just wait for their turn. We shall give them an opportunity to build on this in 2016.
Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that in constructing health facilities, equipment and human resources are very important. However these two topics are very broad. So, I beg that I present future ministerial statements, targeting the two issues, including the availability of drugs.
Mr Speaker, I want to end by stating that Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda’s style of management is really enviable. He encourages independence of thought and allows creativity. He allows an hon. Minister to spearhead progress once he has provided the direction.
It is, therefore, up to the hon. Minister and his/her staff to prove that they are able to deliver. This has been proved by all hon. Ministers seated before you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: It is important for people to criticise this Government on how it is performing because it will help it to do better. Today, we have clearly shown how we are performing in the health sector. We encourage you to criticise us even more so that we work harder.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may ask questions which will enable the hon. Minister of Health clarify the points that are contained in his ministerial statement. All those who have questions should continue indicating.
Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, whilst I appreciate the fact that this Government is working hard, I still want to know when the ministry is going to provide new equipment to health posts such as Kantenshya, Kapililonga and Luwaluzi in Isoka.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are procuring equipment from two sources. We have equipment under the Japanese International Co-operation Agency (JICA) contract which was signed about four to five months ago when there were issues regarding the Philips equipment which was in the country. Some ministry officials travelled to Japan and signed a contract with JICA to supply us with equipment for hospitals and health posts. We are also buying equipment under the mobile services from the United States of America (USA).
Mr Mukanga: From China.
Mr Simbao: We are not buying it from China. We want to equip all the stationary hospitals, clinics and health posts.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister was quite categorical in defining the management style of the President as being that of encouraging creativity and independence of thought. Would the hon. Minister, therefore, explain why he stated that the building of health posts, clinics and so on and so forth was under the instruction of the President. If that is the case, where has been the independence of thought of the hon. Minister himself?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Member was around when I was talking about how the President gives directives. When the President directs that he wants to see the construction of health posts and hospitals, it is up to the ministry and me ...
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: ... to see where we need these buildings. That is how we are working with the President.
Thank you, Sir.
Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, sometime this year, the hon. Minister brought a work plan to this House which included Lilanda and Matero health posts. However, I did not hear him mention them in his statement. Is that work plan now irrelevant?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member did not hear me properly. I did mention three health posts when talking about Lusaka.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, why have most of the health centres and posts not been opened when some of them were built four to five years ago? How sure is the Government that the buildings that are put up now will have personnel to man them if the existing ones do not have professional health workers to man them?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, most of the health institutions have not been opened to date because there was no authorisation to that effect. It is not just a question of building infrastructure, but the necessary logistics also have to be put in place. There should be co-ordination with the Ministry of health. Before any infrastructure is constructed, there must be an agreement with the Ministry of Health. Sometimes, it takes time for the Ministry of Health to get involved in a project that has already been started. It is a good thing that we are constructing infrastructure, but we must also know that we have limited personnel at the moment. There is no qualified personnel to be employed by the ministry immediately. That is why the ministry is trying its best to run parallel training programmes. In the School of Medicine, for example, there is a parallel programme for those who want to study medicine that is structured around the same format of training as the normal one. Parallel programmes have been introduced at almost all the health training institutions. This will enable the ministry to have many doctors because we do not have enough doctors in this country. We hope to double or triple the number. A new School of Medicine will soon be opened in Ndola. That initiative will help us greatly because it will mean that we shall have three streams producing doctors.
Secondly, some of the health posts have taken long because of the nature of construction. Most of them were just completed recently. However, like I mentioned in my ministerial statement, the good thing is that we have now been given authority to employ health workers for the 323 health posts. We are going to employ everyone we can find and encourage those who have retired to come back on contract …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: ... so that we can manage as many health posts as possible.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, why did the hon. Minister not mention the new health posts in Ndola in the ministerial statement?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we may have not referred to Ndola in the manner the hon. Member might want us to. However, Ndola is one of the towns which has had one clinic in Lubuto upgraded to hospital level. We are also building infrastructure for doctors and nurses at Ndola Central and Arthur Davison hospitals. We also wanted to upgrade Kabushi to first level hospital status in the new plan, but we encountered a little problem with the area Member of Parliament. So, there is a lot that is going on in Ndola.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister explain the state of affairs to the people of Chasefu Constituency, especially those living around a place called Khulikuli who were told that after mobilising bricks, river and building sand, the construction of the health post would commence in July this year. Why has the construction not commenced since July has since gone past?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are running a mixed type of construction this year. We have sent money for construction to all the districts. The districts are supposed to engage contractors. Most of the districts have not yet engaged contractors. I think Khulikuli is one of the places where contractors have not yet been engaged. The money has been sent to all the districts. We have also sent all the required materials except cement but, hopefully, its distribution will start tomorrow. So, that is the position regarding health posts.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his statement, mentioned that one of the clinics that were completed in Monze District, and Monze Central in particular, is Chisekesi. Is the hon. Minister aware that the clinic he mentioned was actually constructed twenty years ago and no clinic has been constructed in Chisekesi since? If he is aware, what measures is he going to put in place to ensure that a new clinic is put up in Chisekesi?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of the issue the hon. Member of Parliament has raised. What I know is that the health post I mentioned is one of the 323 that will be commissioned.
Interruptions
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I will, therefore, go back and verify the seemingly contradictory information.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister boasts about the commissioning of 323 health posts, I would like to find out whether the Government has also budgeted for rehabilitation of roads that lead to the health posts for easy access by pregnant women. This is considering the fact that this is one of the bottlenecks towards achieving one of the millennium development goals (MDGs).
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who has just asked the question belongs to the health fraternity. I am sure she will always be very proud to be a health professional. So, I do not understand why she uses the word ‘boast’ in reference to the health posts to be commissioned when she should be very happy with what the Government is doing.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: I would like to tell her that we have completed the construction of four maternity wings on the Copperbelt as well as Central Province. We are constructing four maternity wings in both the Western and Northern provinces. The hon. Member should be very happy with that.
Sir, the issue of roads is well known by the Ministry of Works and Supply.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: The Ministry of Works and Supply is always involved whenever there is construction of any infrastructure.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the nation what magical action will be taken by this ministry to recruit more personnel to man this unrealistic number of health posts and centres, seeing that the ministry has failed to do this all these years.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the immediate task is to upgrade the community health workers. We will train them in theoretical work for six months and another six months in practical work. The programme is already starting and it is sponsored by very friendly partners. We want the health workers to be in charge of the health posts because they will hold Grade 12 certificates and will be properly trained. The World Health Organisation (WHO) has approved this kind of training. Therefore, by July, 2011, all the health centres should be manned by qualified personnel, Hon. Mukanga.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, I wonder what plans the Government has for the genuinely poor communities that cannot afford the 25 per cent co-financing which the hon. Minister deliberately left out in his ministerial statement. What will happen with these communities since this is a pre-requisite?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the 25 per cent contribution involves items that are readily available. It is just a question of contributing bricks which entail digging up the soil, moulding the bricks and burning them. This has nothing to do with poverty. However, if you wanted to build in the midst of Kanyama, you probably would not find anywhere to dig the soil because all the land has been taken up. Therefore, such areas are catered for differently.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, in view of this fantastic infrastructure development plan unveiled to us by the hon. Minister, I am just wondering whether this is not an indication that this Government is hard working.
Laughter
Mr Shakafuswa: Leakage!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am being assisted by Hon. Scott. Yes, it is a very hardworking Government.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for a very good presentation of infrastructure development which shows that this Government is working hard.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, in places like Katuba and other rural areas, health posts are found in radii of 12 km. Therefore, how long will it take this hardworking Government to cushion that distance so that expectant mothers and people with other health problems can contend with reduced radii of about 2-3 km?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, his Excellency the President has changed the policy as regards the building of health posts. In the past, health posts could only be built where there were, at least, 3,000 people and a health centre where there were 10,000 people. However, the policy now is to build a health post at every school regardless of whether it is community, private or Government owned.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: In future, we will go by schools and not communities per se because we know that every school has a community around it.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: For Katuba, we can seriously look at the problem the hon. Member has raised next year.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the Government has, in the past, …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
I want to hear the question.
Mr Kakoma: … constructed clinics which it has not completed as the case is at Nyawanda, in Zambezi West Constituency which was abandoned five years ago. I would like to find out why the Government is embarking on new projects when it has failed to complete the projects that were started earlier.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is a pity if there is such a case because, this year, the Government has assigned contractors to all unfinished structures. I am surprised that there is one that was left out. The Government shall quickly look into this because its intention is to complete construction of all the small structures. Therefore, this item that the hon. Member has mentioned is new to me and it shall be looked into to ascertain what the problem was for it to be left out.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, there are 125 health centres that are scheduled to be completed by December, next month. However, there is a problem. I would like to find out whether the construction will continue into next year as it is behind schedule.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, yes, money has been apportioned for construction works and we are targeting to complete these health posts within twelve months from the time we started. We hope to beat the target. It is the number of months that are important and not necessarily the crossing over from one year into another. So, we will continue until we finish the construction of the health posts.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister clarify when the construction of Kaoma-Makasa and Musalango rural health centres, which started operating five years ago, was completed because the way he was informing this House is like it was completed last month.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I did not say that the construction was completed last month, but that some of the health centres, among those I mentioned, were as old as five years. I made it very clear.
Interruptions
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, actually, I gave the reasons for this. I said that there were problems of construction …
Hon. Opposition Members: You do not know them!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I know some of them very well. Therefore, I am talking about what I know. I did not say that the construction of all the centres was completed last month, but made reference to the 323 completed health centres yet to be commissioned.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, despite allocating money to construct the Lalafuta Health Post, to date, nothing has been done even though all the construction materials are on site?
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, as regards whether I am aware about Lalafuta Health Post, I informed the House that money has been sent to the districts although some of them have not yet hired contractors. Can the hon. Member help me, if possible, by going to hustle the Director of Health at the ministry …
Mr Mwiimbu: Hustle!
Mr Simbao: … for the contractor having not been hired? If he is a contractor himself, can he go and construct this health centre?
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, when will the hon. Minister lay on the Table of this House a new list of hospitals to be constructed unlike the old list which was left by the gallant soldier, the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC.?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am sure the people have appreciated how hardworking this Government is.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, projects are a continuation. Some projects get completed while others get started. For example, the works on the Choma/Namwala Raod …
Laughter
Mr Simbao: … started a long time ago, but if you want to point at a specific project that has been an initiative of this Government, I can tell the hon. Member here that construction works on the Mwense and Mibenge health posts in Luapula have just started.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, in 2008, Chilubi District Council submitted to the office of the District Health Office that three health posts beconstructed at Kasansa, Kapofu and Kashitu. Now, the fact that …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Ask your question.
Mr Chisala: I would like to find out why Chilubi has been left out of the list that has been read on the Floor of this House.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it could have just been an omission. If those two health posts were constructed, we will add them to the list.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, particularly that he has mentioned that it is the President who has been giving directives on the construction of health posts, why the peri-urban areas of Kitwe have been marginalised without receiving any health post or district hospital.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in a big town like Lusaka, if the hon. Member was following, very few health posts are constructed because most of the money is being spent on the construction of big infrastructure. As regards the peri-urban areas of Kitwe, we have just said that we are constructing accommodation at Kitwe Central Hospital. That is a lot of money that is being spent on one project when it can be used to build a lot of health posts.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, when will the Ministry of Heath complete constructing Kalomo District Hospital? I have not heard any talk about it.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I might not be able to state when at the moment, but we shall seriously consider Kalomo District Hospital and see what is remaining. If the portion of works remaining to be worked on is not very big, it is possible to have it worked on within 2011. So, we have to look at it seriously and see what works are remaining.
I thank you, Sir
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I am enthused by the hon. Minister’s statement that the President has directed that health centres be constructed at each school. I would like to know when this programme is going to start so that the people of Luapula constituency can benefit from it.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member needs to know that this programme started this year when he was asked to submit names of schools where health posts should be constructed and …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: … I hope he did that.
I thank you, Sir.
________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
BOARDING HIGH SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION
159. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Education when a boarding high school would be built in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency and what the estimated cost was.
The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, tenders for the construction of Mufumbwe High School Phase II are being evaluated in order to identify the contractor. The construction shall commence in the first quarter of 2011. The estimated cost for phase II will only be known after the evaluation process has been completed.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that some contractors have gone to Mufumbwe to check on this site?
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I thought that the hon. Member would be happy that we, as a Government, are in the process of doing exactly what he wants. I can only say that we will construct the boarding school and are serious about it. In fact, I was privileged to visit the site for this school and I would like to request him to praise us for doing that.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has just stated that phase II is being worked on at the moment, but I would like to find out how far phase I has gone and where what is called phase II is starting from.
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, in Phase I, we put up teachers’ houses and other structures but, in Phase II, we are building the rest of the school.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the question specifically referred to a boarding high school but, in the reply, the hon. Minister has just referred to a high school. May I find out whether this high school will be a boarding high school or a day high school.
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, yes, this school will be a boarding high school.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, when will the Ministry of Education begin to implement the good idea of building a high school for every five basic schools so that Mufumbwe can also benefit from this programme?
Mr Speaker: Order!
The answer has been given. This particular school in Mufumbwe is going to be a high school. Therefore, Mufumbwe is already benefiting even without following that particular approach.
UNZA EMPLOYEES’ TERMINAL BENEFITS
160. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education:
(a) why the University of Zambia (UNZA) management has not paid terminal benefits to its former employees from 2006 to date; and
(b) how much money the university owed its former employees.
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, UNZA has not been able to pay terminal benefits to all its former employees because the current total income stream is inadequate. As at 31st August, 2011, the university owed its former employees the following:
Employee Category Terminal Benefits (K’bn)
Living Retirees 191,426,769,721.23
Contract Gratuities 42,964,416,744.22
Deceased Estates 16,194,483,959.55
Total 250,585,670,425.00
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, with regard to the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister, could he spell out exactly what the total number of ex-employees who have not been paid their benefits is.
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we may not have the total number of ex-employees who are owed but, as the hon. Member might have been listening, they are in three categories, namely living retirees, contract gratuities and deceased estimates. If he cares, we can provide the total number of ex-employees at a later date.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kambwili interjected.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Why is it that the same hon. Members continue talking loudly while seated, thereby making it difficult for those who wish to work hard in this House to do so? It is the same people we keep telling not do that, but they do not stop.
Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, this is clearly a serious problem and I would like to find out what the Ministry of Education is doing to resolve this problem at UNZA.
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we are seriously looking into that issue. If the hon. Member cares to look, he will see that in this year’s Budget, we have increased the allocation to UNZA so that we can reduce the indebtedness of the institution. Secondly, we actually requested UNZA to see if it could come up with a sustainability programme so that, as a ministry, we could look into that matter and involve other stakeholders and chart the way forward for this institution.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, about two or three years ago, the UNZA management submitted a business plan to the Government that included a way of addressing this problem. I wish to find out what happened to that business plan. Was it approved or not? If so, how far has the implementation of that business plan by the UNZA management gone?
Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, that is exactly what I was talking about. As a ministry, we are looking seriously into that issue and involving all the stakeholders so that we can see the way forward.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, employees end up dying because they cannot even afford to go to the hospitals. Their children have stopped school ...
Mr Speaker: Order!
No debating.
Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, what is the Ministry of Education’s and Government’s plan on the plight of these Zambians who are voters?
The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education and the Government, at large, is aware of the huge challenges that UNZA, including the Copperbelt University are facing. As the hon. Deputy Minister stated, one of the first things that we needed to do was to bring normality at the institutions in relation to financial matters. That began with the process of ensuring that we had audited accounts so that there is accountability in how resources are utilised. This was followed by calling on the management and University Council to present to the Government what they saw as a sustainable short and long term-plan up to about 2015. It also meant that we had to arrest the situation at the university, which included very difficult conditions of service that make it unsustainable for the university’s current revenues to meet the university requirements.
Mr Speaker, it also meant that we had to review the capacity on the current infrastructure that was built for 3,000 students and has now 13,000 students. It meant that we had to look at processes of maintenance and what has happened over the years for the university to be where it is when, in some instances, a room is being shared by over fifty people. It really meant that we had to arrest issues of increasing both statutory and non-statutory debt at the university. These are serious matters.
Sir, two weeks ago, the President and I met with the University of Zambia Students’ Union (UNZASU), the Council and the management at UNZA because very soon, we are going to have to make very tough decisions to correct the malaise that is existing at the university. Therefore, we have taken the first step. We are aware of these problems and have increased the budget which, I hope, will be supported by the House to ensure that we dismantle some of the arrears. We have also challenged the university to address the problem of conditions of service that continue to increase the debt at the institution. This is not a one-sided issue. I hope that many hon. Members of Parliament will take time to understand these issues and really see that the world over, be it Europe or America, it is a challenge to finance higher education. It is very important for the development of the nation, but we must all find a sustainable way to finance higher education.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state whether, besides the Government grants and student fees, UNZA and the Copperbelt University have ever considered coming up with survival plans that may include fundraising like many other universities the world over?
Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, it is true that many universities the world over are funded by alumnae. In Zambia, there are many people in this House as well as in the private sector who have benefited from the two universities. It is also important that universities get into business ventures. I know of universities in Europe whose research is supported by the private sector.
Educating citizens is not just for the Government alone. The beneficiary, most of the time, is the private sector. The people we educate go into the private sector and help it to make money, create wealth and make a profit. Therefore, the private sector has an interest in ensuring that institutions of higher learning do well, especially in terms of research and innovation.
Mr Speaker, we know that the University of Zambia has problems running ZAMNET Communication Systems Ltd whose whole idea was to provide a source of revenue for the institution. Unfortunately, it is not doing well.
Universities have various assets. UNZA has farms and land and it is only a matter of transforming this potential into actual revenue that it can be used to support its operations.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, a long time ago, the late Professor Lameck Goma suggested to the Government that UNZA be given an enterprise, like a mine for instance, to run in order to help fund university education. Is the ministry willing to encourage the university to get into some kind of businesses where it would be able to get additional income instead of relying on Government subventions?
Mr Speaker: Order!
The hon. Minister of Education has already commented on this, but she may add to her response.
Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, for any business to operate efficiently, it must have a good business model. The university has already attempted to venture into business with ZAMNET and the farmland, but is has not worked. This means that there is something wrong somewhere and that is what we need to address. It is one matter to be given a mine and another to run it efficiently.
The whole idea of the Government operating parastatals, not just beyond the Ministry of Education, is intended to provide dividends for the rest of the Zambians who do not work or go to these institutions. Presently, only about 36,000 Zambians go to universities and colleges. How do the rest of the 12 million Zambians benefit? We can only do this if these institutions, like everywhere else in the world, at any point in time, become the cornerstone for the illumination of the nation. Universities have to provide real solutions for real problems in our country and we have to work together to try and get to that point.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
_______
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
Vote 88/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 88/20 – (Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development – Southern Province – Provincial Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordinating Office – K11,103,216,820).
Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Chairperson, on page 1,036, may I have clarification on Programme 8, …
The Chairperson: Order!
Where are you?
Mrs Musokotwane: Southern Province, Kazungula District.
The Chairperson: We are on Vote 88/20.
Mrs Musokotwane: I beg your pardon, Madam.
Vote 88/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 88/21 – (Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development – Southern Province – District Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordinating Office – K8,713,495,848).
Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 9, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Support to Camp Operations – K34,000,000. I would like to know where these camp operations are.
Madam Chairperson, I further wish to know the difference between Unit 9, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Support to Camp Operations – K34,000,000 and Programme 9, Activity 03 – Support to Block and Camp Operations – K15,000,000.
I would also like clarification on Unit 9, Programme 10, Actvity 03 – Catch Assessment Survey – K19,625,000. I would like to know what catch assessment survey is in Kazungula District.
The Deputy Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Mulonga): Madam Chairperson, Unit 9, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Support to Camp Operations – K34,000,000 also caters for Livingstone. We are, therefore, providing for camps in Kazungula as well as Livingstone.
Madam Chairperson, the difference between Unit 9, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Support to Camp Operations – K34,000,000 and Programme 9, Activity 03 – Support to Block and Camp Operations – K15,000,000 is that livestock deals with the development of animals whilst veterinary, in simple terms, looks at medicine for the animals.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Madam, Chairperson, on Unit 9, Programme 9, Activity 03 – Support to Block and Camp Operations – K15,000,000, this is for veterinary officers who are in camps like the one just next to the hon. Member’s farm. Previously, we used the same camp with our colleagues in the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives (MACO), but the veterinary officer is operating from the camp at the moment.
Madam Chairperson, on Unit 9, Programme 10, Activity 03 – Catch Assessment Survey – K19,625,000. We have the Kasaya and Zambezi rivers. Therefore, we want to know what exactly catch is and assess what goes on there.
I thank you, Madam Chairperson.
Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister is saying that the camp operations are near my farm. Where about is the camp near my farm because I do not know any camp there? This is the reason I am asking about Kazungula and not Livingstone. Where are the camp operations in Kazungula? I am not aware of the one that is somewhere near my farm. I also do not know whether the hon. Minister is talking about my Chisamba farm or the one in Kazungula. Where exactly?
Laughter
Mr Mulonga: Madam Chairperson, the camp is situated near Chief Musokotwane’s Chiefdom.
I thank you, Madam Chairperson.
Vote 88/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Interruptions
The Chairperson: Order!
`
We are in a meeting and whoever is talking would like to be heard and not to speak to oneself.
Vote 88/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 88/25 – (Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development – Western Province – District Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordinating Office – K7,314,310).
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 2, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Support to Camp Operations – K120, 060,000. I have observed that last year, there was only K17,062,500, but the figure has jumped to K120,060,000. May I know the activities that have made the figure turn over ten times?
Mr Mulonga: Madam Chairperson, with this increment, we intend to conduct more activities next year compared to this year because the ministry is not fully established this year. Therefore, next year, we will be separated from the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives and we will be on our own.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Vote 88/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 88/26 – (Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development – Provincial Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordinating Office – K6,970,975,575).
Mr Kambwili: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 1, Programme 2, Activity 09 – Financial Management and Accounting – K230,100,000. I would like to find out why the allocation for financial management and accounting has jumped from K21,221,757 to K230,100,000. I also want to have clarification on Unit 1, Programme 2, Activity 10 – Provincial Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordination – K71,304,457. I would like to find out why this activity has been allocated such a small amount.
Mr Mulonga: Madam Chairperson, with this increment, we intend to purchase a motor vehicle for the same unit in the Eastern Province which we do not have currently.
I thank you, Madam.
The Chairperson: The general observation is that we keep asking all these questions, but this is a new ministry being established. So, for some of the activities, we can all tell what is happening.
Interruptions
The Chairperson: Order!
I cannot read because somebody is busy talking.
Vote 88/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 88/29 – (Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development – North-Western Province – District Livestock and Fisheries Co-ordinating Office – K5,452,067,058).
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 3, Programme 8, Activity 04 – Construction of Livestock Service Centres – K635,000,000, may I find out how many livestock service centres are going to be constructed from this K635,000,000 and where these centres are going to be constructed in Zambezi District? Can the hon. Minister also explain to me what the difference is between livestock service centres, livestock camps and livestock blocks? These appear to be new terms the ministry has introduced. Can you explain what they are and what the difference between them is?
The Chairperson: Hon. Deputy Minister, maybe, you can take this opportunity to define the many new terms you have used as much as you can remember so that we do not keep referring to them.
Mr Mulonga: Madam Chairperson, in simple terms, we can refer to a livestock service centre as a clinic for animals. Dip tanks are where animals are taken to livestock Service Centres to be dipped. Animals that are sick will treated and preventive as well as curative services will be given at these centres. In other words, I can say these service centres are like under-five clinics for animals.
Laughter
Mr D. Mwila: Chawama!
Mr Mulonga: A livestock block is a collection of camps.
That is what we call a block. As regards where, exactly, in Zambezi District, these centres will be constructed, I think these details can be given to the hon. Member when he comes to the office. At the moment, we know that these are going to be constructed in Zambezi District.
Thank you, Madam.
Vote 88/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 88/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 31 – (Ministry of Justice – Headquarters – K278,822,407,611).
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present a policy statement on my ministry’s estimates of expenditure for 2011.
My ministry’s responsibility is to provide legal services, facilitate dispensation of justice and promote governance mechanisms in order to uphold good governance principles and practices in Zambia.
My ministry will, in 2011, continue to perform its core functions through various departments and institutions. In order to streamline its activities, the ministry has developed a Strategic Plan for the years 2011 to 2015 which will soon be launched. This plan will guide the ministry in the next five years and enhance the smooth operations of the Ministry of Justice.
Some of the activities to be undertaken next year through various departments will include the following:
Office Accommodation
In order to address the critical shortage of office accommodation, the ministry has embarked on the construction of a five-storey office building to house all departments. Work on site has started.
Legislative Drafting Department
This department effectively and efficiently serviced the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) which was dissolved at the end of August, 2010. The department will continue its functions of law revision and drafting of Bills and statutory instruments.
Civil Litigation Debt Collection and Prerogative of Mercy Department
As always, the department will continue to represent the State in actions against and by the State in accordance with the provisions of Section 12 of the State Proceedings Act, Chapter 71 of the Laws of Zambia on the exercise of the Prerogative of Mercy pursuant to Article 59 of the Constitution and of course, debt collection and civil litigation matters.
International Law and Agreements Department
Madam Chairperson, this department will continue with its functions of drafting, scrutinising and negotiating international and domestic agreements. My ministry, through this department, has the mandate to advise the Government on various international agreements and treaties.
The Directorate of Public Prosecutions
Madam Chairperson, this department is responsible for all public and criminal prosecutions as provided for in Article 58 of the Constitution. The department will, in due course, be transformed into a semi-autonomous body to be called the National Prosecution Authority.
Administrator-General and Official Receiver Department
The role of the Office of the Administrator-General and Official Receiver is to administer estates of deceased persons as well as estates in bankruptcy. The department will, in 2011, continue to carryout this role.
Madam Chairperson, I am pleased to inform the House that this department will soon have a presence in Livingstone, following the acquisition of office accommodation there. In 2011, the ministry will send some officers to work in Livingstone.
Governance Secretariat
Madam Chairperson, the Governance Secretariat will continue with its role of facilitating the implementation of the administration of justice, constitutionalism, democratisation, human rights, accountability and transparency and co-ordination, reporting and facilitation of governance initiatives.
The Ministry of Justice will continue to service the following governance programmes:
(i) The African Peer Review Mechanism
Mr Chairperson, I am pleased to report that Zambia has completed its Country Self Assessment Report and the accompanying National Programme of Action on the African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM). The implementation of the National Programme of Action will commence in 2011 and will run for a period of three years before a review can be undertaken.
(ii) Millennium Challenge Account
The Millennium Challenge Account (MCA) is an American initiative whose mission is poverty reduction through sustainable economic growth.
As part of the MCA requirements, the Ministry of Justice is directly responsible for providing information on the implementation of the ruling justly component of the programme. The other components of the MCA are investing in people and economic freedom.
This august House may wish to note that Zambia became eligible for funding from the Millennium Challenge Account in December, 2008 after satisfying the conditions that make up the seventeen indicators of the three policy categories.
(iii) Grant-Aided Institutions
The following institutions will continue to receive grants through the Ministry of Justice:
(a) Legal Aid Board
This Board will continue to provide legal aid to the less privileged citizens in Zambia. In doing so, the Legal Aid Board will continue working with the Law Association of Zambia using the Legal Aid Fund.
(b) Zambia Law Development Commission
Madam Chairperson, as you may be aware, the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) will be operational in 2011. During the SNDP period, the Zambia Law Development Commission (ZLDC) has set out to achieve a number of strategic objectives that are also consistent with its mandate, namely laws development, reviews and reforms, information dissemination, translation of laws into local languages and institutional capacity building.
(c) Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE)
The institution will continue to provide advanced legal training to law students and lawyers. This, as usual, will include national, regional and international post graduate legal studies and training in legislative drafting as well as other diploma courses …
The Chairperson: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was presenting the policy statement for the Ministry of Justice and I was talking about ZIALE.
Mr Chairperson, I wish to inform this august House that there will be preliminary works in 2011 to facilitate for the construction of a new campus for ZIALE. Funds will, therefore, be required to build more hostels and classrooms due to the increase in university law graduates admitted at ZIALE who are graduating from universities other than the University of Zambia.
(d) Judicial Complaints Authority (JCA)
The institution will continue to receive and investigate complaints from the public or any person aggrieved by the conduct of judicial officers.
The JCA intends to establish an inspectorate and monitoring unit in order to incorporate proactive measures that can be used to highlight incidences of misconduct. This will include conducting more intense public sensitisation and education campaigns amongst judicial officers on its role and the need for upholding the Judicial Code of Conduct.
These are some of the activities budgeted for in the ministry’s 2011 budget which is K278,822,407,611. I urge hon. Members to support the budget for the Ministry of Justice as presented.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the Vote, I would like to make a few remarks and I request the His Honour the Vice President and Minister of Justice to respond to the issues which I will raise on the Floor of this House.
Mr Chairperson, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, in his policy statement and the programme of work for the Ministry of Justice, did omit one very important programme which all Zambians were expecting to hear him talk about. All of us are aware that, three years ago or so, the Government initiated the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) which had the task of reviewing and, if possible, repealing the current Constitution. The work of the NCC was concluded at the end of August this year. As a Zambian and Member of Parliament, I expected His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to indicate to us how the Government intends to proceed with the Constitution-making process in this country in his policy statement and programme of work for the coming year. We are all aware that Zambians have been demanding for a new Constitution before the elections next year.
Mr Speaker, from what I have been seeing on television and the pronouncements that are made by the Government, even on the Floor of this House, it appears as if the Constitution-making process will run up to July, 2011. I am sure you have all heard statements being made which are indicating that the President of the Republic of Zambia has given directives that all programmes must be concluded by July, 2011. That is an indicator of what will happen next year. I expected the programme of enacting a new Constitution to be announced by His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice on the Floor of this House.
Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the revision of laws pertaining to elections in this country. We are all aware that nearly all the general elections that have been conducted in this country, from 1996 to date, have been contentious. A number of issues have been highlighted by members of the public, civil society and the Government itself pertaining to the management of elections. I expected the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to give a roadmap on the process of reviewing laws that relate to elections. It will not be in the interest of the Government and anyone who is interested in democracy in this country, to allow elections to be conducted under the current electoral regime. It is my considered view that His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, whom I assume is a democrat who would like the elections to be held under a new dispensation, will make very important pronouncements pertaining to the electoral process that will govern the elections for 2011.
Mr Chairperson, I do not have many issues which I would like to raise on the current debate that is on the Floor of this House. What I have talked about contains the main issues which I would like His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to make specific comments on for the benefit of myself, my colleagues and the nation as a whole.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor. I will be extremely brief. I just want His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to respond to the issues that I am going to raise concerning the Administrator-General and Official Receiver of Roan Antelope Mining Corporation of Zambia (RAMCOZ).
Mr Chairperson, ten years have passed since RAMCOZ went under receivership, leaving a lot of issues unresolved. One of the issues involves K13 billion which the receiver is supposed to pay to Mukuba Pension Scheme. Mukuba Pension Scheme, in return, is supposed to use that money to pay the deserving former RAMCOZ employees their benefits.
Mr Chairperson, the other issue involves K2 billion which RAMCOZ owes the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). Most of the ex-RAMCOZ employees in Luanshya have died and some of them cannot afford school fees because they have not been paid their dues by NAPSA. NAPSA is claiming that the receiver has not yet paid it the K2 billion for it to subsequently pay off the miners. As a Government, we should be worried and concerned about the suffering of the people who genuinely worked for their money such as the former RAMCOZ employees. Now that the receivership has been transferred from Grant Thornton to the Administrator-General, who is part of the Government, I expected this process to be quickened so that the people can get their terminal benefits.
Mr Chairperson, as regards the suppliers and contractors on the Copperbelt, over seventy have not been paid for the goods and services they supplied and provided to RAMCOZ. All this is because the receiver is not moving in the right direction. I am reliably informed that the receiver has collected K90 billion so far from the various activities of RAMCOZ. Why is the receiver keeping the K90 billion without paying the suppliers, contractors, NAPSA and Mukuba Pension Scheme. I want His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to clearly state when these monies will be paid to the deserving institutions and individuals.
Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about issues regarding Ndola Copper Refinery. Ndola Copper Refinery was part of RAMCOZ. When the Government released US$36 million to pay the former RAMCOZ workers, it only catered for those in Luanshya and not Ndola. Why were our brothers and sisters in Ndola not catered for? Like I stated earlier, ten years have passed without these people being paid their terminal benefits. I want His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice to clearly respond to the concerns that my people have asked me to present to the Government through this debate.
Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote under consideration though I have observed that the allocation to this ministry has reduced from K316,463,152,148 last year to K278,822,407,611.
I thank you, Sir.
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to the few issues that have been raised by the hon. Members. Let me now make a few comments regarding the constitution review process. I wish to assure the hon. Member who referred to that process that the Government’s position regarding the constitution review process will be announced to the nation in the next few days. A clear roadmap will be given on how we are going to proceed with this process.
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, hon. Members should just wait for that information patiently.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Opposition Members: We have been always patient.
Laughter
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, as regards our electoral regime, around 2005 to 2006, we made some comprehensive changes to our electoral laws. We even passed a new Act regarding the electoral regime, but some of the issues regarding elections have also been raised during the constitution review process. All the issues that have been raised during the constitution review process will be dealt with within that process. We are all interested in having free and fair elections because we are democrats.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I have taken note of the issues raised by Hon. Kambwili on the indebtedness of RAMCOZ. Some of these are legal issues and, therefore, I can only promise to make some inquiries, investigate and see what can be done within the laws of this country.
Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Vote 31/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 31/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 31/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 31/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 17 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – K356,178,852,615).
The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Pande): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I wish to express my appreciation for this opportunity you have accorded to me to present the estimates of expenditure for my ministry.
Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is responsible for the following portfolio functions:
(i) foreign policy;
(ii) international relations;
(iii) international and regional co-operations;
(iv) treaties;
(v) co-ordination of missions abroad;
(vi) foreign service training;
(vii) diplomatic corps in Zambia as well as pledges; and
(viii) contributions to United Nations (UN) agencies and other international organisations.
Mr Chairperson, since the onset of the global financial and economic crisis, which did not spare any country in the world, budgetary issues for developing countries such as Zambia always present difficulties to the leadership of governments. This is because demands are always more than the available resources. Therefore, we will continue to appreciate the support that we receive from both our bilateral and multilateral partners.
However, it is also Zambia’s hope that, even with the excellent relations and goodwill that it continues to enjoy with its co-operating partners, a day will come when it can wean itself off donor support to allow other less economically fortunate countries to also benefit from this support. The trend that has been set, on average, in the annual gradual reduction in donor support, speaks towards this goal.
Mr Chairperson, it is encouraging to note that, through the Government’s transformation plan, which has diversified the economy away from excessive dependence on copper, Zambia’s economy during the period under review grew by 6.4 per cent and is expected to grow more than that by December, 2010.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry, by nature of its mandate, pursues a policy premised on the need to promote and maintain solid and good international relations with both bilateral and multilateral co-operating partners as it implements the country’s development programmes. My ministry is, therefore, under obligation to be as resolute as possible towards maximising Zambia’s benefits through forming strong bilateral partnerships with both public and private sectors of other countries as well as through Zambia’s assertive role in multilateral bodies.
In laying emphasis on economic diplomacy, my ministry shall strive to use all diplomatic means in cultivating Zambia’s trade and investment opportunities in the international arena. This will not be cheap. The ministry will need adequate financial resources to effectively engage the world to partner with Zambia in matters of development.
The cost of undertaking programmes by my ministry, as laid out in the presented budget, will continue to be enormous compared to other ministries because a large part of the ministry’s operations are of an international nature, thereby involving currency transactions which are perpetually fluctuating and inevitably impacting the budget lines negatively.
Mr Chairperson, this year, despite the small size of the resource envelope, my ministry tried as much as possible to implement most of the planned activities for the period under review. Some of the major programmes implemented included the following:
(i) we hosted Joint Permanent Commissions (JPCs) with Egypt, Rwanda and Zimbabwe; and
(ii) attended JPCs held in Algeria, Botswana, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Malawi and Namibia. JPCs with South Africa and Tunisia are scheduled to be held later in the year.
Mr Chairperson, through these meetings, development co-operation has been secured in almost all sectors of the economy. This includes offers for investment in areas such as health, scholarships, technical assistance in the management of the Kafue weed, irrigation development, provision of medical personnel, improved market access for Zambian products and technical know-how gained through exchange of experiences and best practices.
Mr Chairperson, as you are aware, my ministry’s headquarters do not operate in isolation. They are complemented by the services of thirty-one Zambian missions abroad and two consulates to effectively implement Zambia’s foreign policy. The challenge being faced by our missions abroad is the escalating transaction costs of goods and services as a result of the depreciation of the United States dollar against major currencies such as the Euro and British Pound. These fluctuations are eroding the value of the recurrent departmental charges, and yet the ministry still needs to carry out renovations and repair works of assets which it owns.
Mr Chairperson, at the 30th Jubilee Summit of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) held from 16th to 17th August, 2010 in Windhoek, Namibia, His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, assumed the chairmanship of the SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security. The organ on peace and security is the body that is responsible for democratic governance and ensuring that standards for holding free and fair elections are upheld by SADC countries and also for conflict resolution by promoting peace and security in the Southern African region.
By virtue of being chair, Zambia is responsible for the overall policy direction and achievement of the objectives of the organ. Zambia will, therefore, be compelled to host numerous meetings in 2011. The manner in which Zambia fulfills this onerous task will have a significant bearing on Zambia’s stature not only in the region, but also on the international arena. This will call for more financial resources to be provided to the ministry to support the work of our Head of State in this area.
Mr Chairperson, in the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) period, 2011/2013, my ministry will be addressing key issues and the focus will be on the following:
(i) review and implement joint permanent commissions of co-operation;
(ii) attend to international obligations such as the UN General Assembly, African Union (AU), Non-Aligned Movement, Commonwealth Heads of State and Government Meeting, SADC and the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA).;
(iii) construct and purchase chanceries and residences in some missions in order to reduce Government expenditure incurred on high rentals;
(iv) facilitate activities for the Levy Patrick Mwanawasa Centre for the promotion of democracy, good governance, human rights and civic education. This includes the purchase of permanent premises where the centre will be located; and
(v) co-ordinate Zambia’s position and participate in the Africa-India Partnership Forum and also undertake follow-up action of the resolutions.
Mr Chairperson, let me conclude by thanking this august House as well as other ministries and institutions for their invaluable support which enables my ministry effectively implement Zambia’s foreign policy. In the same vein, I wish to appeal to hon. Members of this august House for their support to my ministry’s budget as it endeavours to articulate and implement its mandate for the realisation of its national interest.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Chairperson, I wish to compliment the hon. Minister for his statement and also for omissions and commissions which I would like to raise with him. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the touch bearer of the Zambian character. The ministry must be seen as a mirror on the cleanliness of our Republic. However, when the ministry is under funded, there are inevitable embarrassments that come with that. I am looking forward to the day this ministry will be properly funded for it to be a clear mirror of the people and our country.
It is nice, hon. Minister, to remain humble and, sometimes, exercise intellectual arrogance to get things done. There is a policy in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs with regard to issues of professionalism, as introduced by your predecessor, now Minister of Defence, Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa which, in all honesty and I hope you will be very honest in your reply, is not being followed.
I have no problems with any citizens being given any job that is available within the context of their experience and qualifications. However, when the Ministry of Foreign Affairs becomes a dumping ground for the Government, as a place for failed politicians who could not find other jobs or other means of livelihood, I take very strong exception.
Mr Chairperson, this is a statement of fact and I want to assure His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of justice that there will not be any spiteful statements, but those of things that are taken on board. As stated about public servants at the District Commissioner and Permanent Secretary levels, I think it is time, after forty-six years of independence, for this country to start recognising the importance of the Public Service per se. Surely, why do we have District Commissioners, First Secretaries and Ambassadors − perhaps, for Ambassadors, I will give an exception − who are former Deputy Ministers and people who have lost elections in the recent past? What will your children and my children be?
Who should occupy the office of First Secretary? Clearly, cadres of the Ruling Party of the day are not the first ones to occupy this office. It is something that has happened in the past. However, after Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa’s statement in this Chamber, I thought we were starting a new chapter in making our appointments to the Public Service as professional as possibly can be. I challenge you, hon. Minister, and we can go through your own diplomatic book, which has been in draft form for several years now, and we will make a discovery that almost 46 per cent of your members of staff, and if you want I can give examples mission by mission, are actually not qualified to be where they are. They may be entitled as citizens, but not qualified to represent this country effectively.
Mr Mabenga: Why?
Mr Matongo: Well, I will answer you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: They are not proficient and cannot be extra-ordinary and plenipotentiary to represent the Zambian. They could be district secretaries in your political party but, in my party, they do not qualify to be at that level. So, I have answered you.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: Having dealt with that miscreant, I come back to real issues.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Hon. Member do not get carried away by …
Mr Matongo: I withdraw Chair. Let us now make progress. The message has been delivered though.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
You either withdraw unconditionally or you have not withdrawn. What do you mean by message delivered nevertheless?
Mr Matongo: It has been withdrawn.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer, hammer!
Mr Matongo: It is in total good faith hon. Minister that we raise these criticisms. We can mess around with political positions and that is why people are politicians but, for God’s sake, to put failed politicians in Tokyo and Addis Ababa, who are inadequate and poorly trained …
Interruptions
Mr Matongo: I can mention names if you want. I am protected. Missions such as Brussels and Washington are economic missions that we have all agreed to send the best diplomats that we can produce to. No wonder, often, hon. Ministers had to go to these countries because they are better informed to deal with issues that ‘their Excellencies’ could have dealt with.
Please understand me. I have no quarrels with the President’s appointment of a few of his political cronies and friends. However, these should go to good neighbouring countries where, rarely, there may be one refugee and, perhaps, where there are no issues of economic value.
Mr Chairperson, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for reducing the donor dependence to 17.5 per cent. I bet it will be more than that because our productive capacity needs to be supported by donors. For that reason alone, it is an illusion of grandeur to believe that we are now at 17.5 per cent from the earlier 30 per cent Budget support. For lack of better words, we are cheating ourselves.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, we need the friendliness of the donors even when they behave in a queer manner. We need the friendliness of the international rich to help us get where we need to go economically.
No one family is an island. We need help from our neighbours. If we had the best people, and there are many in forty-six years of independence, appointed in important economic missions, it would be of great value. I have no problem, whatsoever, hon. Minister, if someone who is a teacher by profession and understands issues of education, is appointed as education attaché because there is some value in him, but for a miller from National Milling Company to be appointed Deputy High Commissioner, it is an insult to the Zambian people. This is a fact.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: Sir, I was Director of Zambia Breweries Company for many years. We should be ashamed to have appointed a brewer to the position of First Secretary, having been Deputy Minister before. We must be ashamed of doing this. I have nothing personal against such people, but this country should have helped them by paying them handsome packages at retirement so that they settle properly. For argument’s sake, should a First Secretary in charge of security at a mission abroad deal with economic matters? Is the Government serious about foreign affairs? The hon. Minister can deny that fact but, such cases are there. Sometimes, to accept reality helps to clear unnecessary misunderstanding. I think our foreign policy, just like our Public Service, needs revisiting.
I shudder to think what those young colleagues in foreign affairs feel when they see people like retired Generals and others deployed to foreign missions. You do this because the Government’s retirement packages are small. The young officers at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are trained, but the retired people are sent abroad instead. Hon. Minister, and His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice should be happy to know that this Government is, in many respects, on the right track. However, let us clear the cobwebs that make us look irrational and totally in favour of people who do not merit our favour and those that make us turn our back on professionalism.
Sir, I would have liked to debate this next issue under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, but I was not given the chance to do so. The debate was curtailed as what happened a little while ago. I want to put it ...
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Matongo: I want to put it …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Please, take your seat.
The hon. Member knows we write down the people who indicate to debate. Debating should not be an afterthought because you have enjoyed the debate of the person who has been debating. It should be something you are prepared for. We will not be waiting for hon. Members to think about debating before we write their names down. If you want to debate, indicate, but if we have not put you on the list of people to debate, it does not mean that your debate has been curtailed. Indicate that you want to debate and you will be given the opportunity to do so. Please, do not mislead the public.
You may continue.
Mr Matongo: Sir, I would like to passionately ask the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs to revert to professionalism. At least three quarters of the staff should be career diplomats
Finally, let me debate the issue that I wanted to raise under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. This country is in arrears on contributions to international organisations. Let us see to it that the arrears are cleared and obligations are honoured. It is an embarrassment to our diplomats and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry if this is not done. It is not good to learn that the country has not honoured its obligations when one goes for international meetings. It is not a pleasure any more for some of us to travel. Therefore, please, Hon. Minister, do something about this.
The other issue is on properties of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Some of them are in a deplorable state. I appreciate the economic situation in our country, but having new missions does not help. We recovered K3.5 billion from the Zambia Trans Overseas for the Office of President (ZAMTROP). I know of a mission that is interested in the buildings from ZAMTROP for embassy prmises. This particular embassy is in dire need of an embassy. However, we are not allowed to discuss and know where the ZAMTROP money is. I would be very happy if that money were diverted to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to improve our image. After all, it was earned there.
There is no reason one building acquired through ZAMTROP money in Brussels cannot be converted into an embassy. You know how overstaffed the embassy is, but we are told this is a matter that cannot be discussed. Why can we not discuss our money? It is important that we, again, debate this issue and those buildings under the relevant department which is the Office of the President should be used by the Zambian embassy in brussels. We are a friend of the system. We mean well.
I end my debate by saying well done, hon. Minister.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to support the Vote on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is a very important ministry because of the functions it performs. I have two points to make.
Mr Chairperson, this ministry can be said to be the secretariat to the global world. Therefore, there is a need for the Government to allocate a lot of money, especially to foreign missions abroad considering the value of our Kwacha vis-à-vis the expenses abroad.
Sir, there are two issues I would like to raise relating to this ministry. The first issue relates to the various meetings that the hon. Minister attends, especially those which the President finally attends after the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has done the preparatory meetings. Currently, I notice that there is a lot of unhappiness about the Presidential travels in Zambia. Many people are beginning to question these travels and think that they have no value to Zambia. I think that one of the weaknesses that I notice with the ministry is that we do not seem, as a country, to bring out the details of some of these meetings that are being attended by the President, important as they may be. There is a need for the ministry, from time to time, to come to this House and issue ministerial statements on some of these very important trips that take place in the various parts of the world.
Hon. Opposition Member: Her, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Sir, I have had an opportunity, since I represent Zambia at the Pan-African Parliament (PAP), to see that there is a lot that a country can achieve from these meetings. However, I was only able to appreciate this by virtue of being a member of the PAP. Therefore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has a lot of work to do to make the public appreciate the results of the meetings.
Mr Chairperson, when Presidents travel out for summits, they come up with declarations, treaties and protocols. It is important that the ministry follows up the treaties and protocols and ensures that Zambia ratifies and implements some of the protocols.
Mr Chairperson, you may recall that I raised a question during the Vice-President’s Question Time concerning the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Good Governance. I said that Zambia had not ratified this protocol. This is an important protocol and Zambia has domesticated some of the major issues that are in the Charter even without having ratified it. One wonders why we are taking so long to ratify an important charter that will benefit us.
Sir, we are usually slow in doing these things despite the fact that Zambia is not like other countries where protocols and treaties have to be ratified by Parliament. For us, it is a function of the Executive. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is key in ensuring that the protocols and treaties are signed, ratified and domesticated. The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs would help in that direction.
Mr Chairperson, recently, I read a statement somewhere that Zambia had voted against a policy to do with Israel and Palestine. Elected officials and the public in general would like to know the foreign policy position of Zambia on some of these important international issues. For example, what is Zambia’s position on the problems in the Western Sahara?
Sir, we know that there are so many issues that happen in a lot of countries where women are harassed and children are killed. These are important issues and, as an African country, we must care about what is happening in neighbouring countries and be seen to side with positive resoulutions.
Sir, I know that Zambia takes decisions, but the point I am making is that we do not seem to have enough information. The ministry is responsible for ensuring that it assists us to appreciate Zambia’s position on a number of foreign issues and the forum for informing elected officials like us is the Floor of this House. This is where the Hon. Minister can come and articulate some of these issues so that, through him, we can learn and inform our people Zambia’s position, for example, on the issue of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
Sir, I hope that the hon. Minister can make a few comments on the points that I have raised.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me yet another opportunity to add my voice to the few voices that have debated this issue.
Sir, from the outset, I would like to record my support for the budget allocation to this ministry because it is an extremely important one in that the world has now become a global village where we need to interact with other countries.
Sir, I have a few comments to make concerning the appointment of diplomats in foreign missions. I asked a question on the Floor of this House on how many diplomats had been recalled from 2008 to date and the answer was that fifty-three diplomats had been recalled and replaced.
This clearly shows that even within the Ruling Party, diplomatic service is dependent on the incumbent President, as only he can appoint those he feels can perform in the Foreign Service. In short, the appointment of people to Foreign Service has been highly politicised to the extent that when there is change of President, even within the same political party, people have to be recalled so that the new President can send either his relatives or cadres who are close to him. This is unacceptable.
Sir, when Dr Frederick Chiluba introduced the Zambia School of Diplomatic and International Studies, we all thought that the diplomatic service was going to be professional. A lot of people have been trained at the school of diplomacy and I would like the hon. Minister to tell me how many of those who have been trained, from inception to date, have been sent to foreign missions. I would also like the hon. Minister to indicate how many cadres have been sent at the expense of the trained professionals. We allocate money in the Budget to the Zambia School of Diplomatic and International Studies, but the graduates of this school are not given the opportunity to serve in foreign missions in preference for political cadres.
Mr Chairperson, on the issue of the Government’s relationship with cadres, I tend to wonder if the Ministry of Foreign Affairs gives advice. For instance, recently, we heard the President say that donors, who are not interested in the development of Zambia, should get out. This was all because they questioned the misuse of their money. This has affected the budget support from donors. Why should the President be the first person to disparage donors when he knows that we need donor support to develop this country?
Sir, when donor support is withheld, it is not the President, the hon. Ministers or the hon. Members of Parliament who will suffer, but the ordinary Zambians who benefit from the health services that are supported by the donors.
Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: I would like the hon. Minister to be categorical and tell this House, when he comes to respond, what the effect of that statement by the President against the donors who support us has been.
Sir, there is one issue that has really surprised me and this is on whether the ministry advises the diplomats who come to Zambia. It has been my style of leadership that every time I learn of a problem at the Luanshya Copper Mines, I see the chief executive of the company. The last time I went to see the chief executive, I was told that for me to see the chief executive, I should get permission from the Chinese Ambassador. This happened after the last time I debated the employees’ problem at the mine.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Sir, surely, do I need to get a visa for me to see a chief executive operating in my constituency?
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: I need a very serious response to this. I have told that chief executive that over my dead body will I get permission from the Chinese Ambassador to see him. It is either that chief executive is out or I stop going to that plant. I want the hon. Minister to indicate whether there is a provision of getting permission from an ambassador to see a chief executive of a foreign-owned company operating in Zambia.
Sir, with these few words, I support the Vote on the Floor and thank you.
Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Chairperson, I believe my contribution will be the shortest because a number of issues have already been covered, especially by Hon. Masebo.
Sir, I would like to thank the Zambian Government for the good relations it has with neighbouring and other foreign countries. This is why this country enjoys peace. We need to realise that peace is not only created within the country, but that outsiders also contribute to it. This is only made possible with good relationships with neighbours.
Sir, a lot of people have talked about the foreign trips that the President has been undertaking. Many of them have debated in the negative.
Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the issue of foreign trips by the president that a lot of people have talked about. Of course, many of them have debated in the negative, but I would like to remind Zambians that trips are very important not only for the President, but also for us, as leaders, hon. Ministers inclusive. The reason is that we need to appreciate what is obtaining in other countries. The moment you go out of this country, you look at what people have achieved after adopting certain policies. That is a class from which we can learn.
Mr Chairperson, let me remind Zambians that the United States of America (USA) has had many presidents and it must be known that the current President, Mr Barrack Obama, taking into consideration the period he has been President, is the most travelled American President ever. The reason is Obama became President at the time …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Its President Obama.
Mr Chongo: Mr Obama became President at the time America’s economy was threatened although it still is. This is the reason President Obama is moving from one country to another. The idea is not just to go and make donations, but finding opportunities for America to sustain the economy.
Zambia is in a worse-off situation than the USA. If a President whose economy is not as bad as Zambia’s can travel that much, what about our President?
Interruptions
Mr Chongo: Therefore, I would like to appeal to Zambians to look at these trips in a positive way because they are good for this country.
Interruptions
Mr Chongo: It is not possible for the President to be in this country 365 days …
Interruptions
Mr Chongo: … a year because we do not have serious problems which we want the President to remain home and sort out. Our challenge, as Zambians, is to grow this economy and we can only do it if we go out there to sell this country. Of course, we should only learn and copy positive things that are happening in other countries.
Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Mr Chairperson, this is one of the most important ministries in the Government. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs represents the face of Zambia because it is the first contact of Zambians and Zambia with the rest of the world. Therefore, it needs to perform extremely well and put up the best of Zambia. This is the reason we always insist that people who are sent to missions abroad must be the best.
Now, obviously, when there is a change of presidency, you naturally expect some changes within the diplomatic circles. Remember that ambassadors are representatives of the President. Therefore, the President appoints people he is comfortable to work with and those he feels will represent the policies of the country to the best of their abilities.
Mr Kambwili: Aah!
Dr Machungwa: There is no way you can send a shibukombe who is going to try and …
Mr Kambwili: Mnnh!
The Deputy Chairperson: Order, interpret that.
Mr Kambwili: What is a shibukombe?
Dr Machungwa: I will explain.
You are not going to send an emissary …
Mr Kambwili: Mudala bweleni pa microphone yenu, muleya kwisa?
Dr Machungwa: Young man, listen!
Laughter
Dr Machungwa: You are not going to send an emissary to see your fiancé if that emissary has desires for that woman. Can you do that?
Hon. Government Members: No!
Dr Machungwa: You have to send somebody you trust.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Machungwa: That is the way it is.
When people are sent to go and work in missions abroad, the President must be comfortable with them.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Machungwa: It does not mean that he is going to replace them all, including first secretaries and everybody else but, at the top, change is inevitable.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Dr Machungwa: When we deal with Zambia’s position on international affairs, it is important that, as a principled and consistent country, we make our position very clear. Hon. Masebo mentioned something about this. For example, for many years Zambia supported the just struggle of the people of the Southern Sudan. We supported General John Garang and the Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) until they got some justice. However, the problems in that country have continued and have reached a point where the people of Southern Sudan will be voting to make a decision on whether to continue to be part of Sudan or be an independent country. That is in the South of Sudan.
Mr Chairperson, to understand this, you need to know a little more about the dynamics of that country. Generally, the southerners, who are mostly non Arabs, and are black people, have had a very difficult time historically. In fact, this is why they have had these problems. We have heard some leaders say that if southern Sudan votes to become independent, then the African countries are going to break apart because they cannot support this. That is nothing. It is far from the truth.
Hon. Opposition Member: Mr Gaddafi!
Dr Machungwa: Mr Gaddafi, yes.
We had a similar problem with Ethiopia and Eritrea. The Eritreans broke away from Ethiopia and became an independent country. Today, Eritrea is an independent country and Ethiopia is on its own and there is no problem.
Mr Chairperson, as Zambians, we should stand for justice, fairness and equal treatment of citizens. This is what we have always stood for in Southern Africa. We have tried to help our brothers and sisters who were being marginalised and discriminated against and we shall continue to stand by that. Therefore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should come out very clearly on this case. I know there are a lot of interests.
On Tuesday, I was at a meeting in Cairo and one of my colleagues from an Arab country said, “No if the people of the Southern Sudan vote for independence, there will be chaos in Africa”. There will be no chaos in Africa.
The same thing is happening in the Saharawi Democratic Republic, that is the Western Sahara. We are aware that after the colonial masters left that country, attempts have been made by Morocco to annex that country. There have been problems and the UN has tried to come in and help so that there is a referendum, but the Moroccan Government has tried all it can to stop that so that there is no justice. I think, as Zambia, we must stand up and always support justice, fairness and equal treatment of citizens.
Mr Chairperson, let me also say that Zambia is a sovereign State and it determines its policies and direction based on what is best for its people and sovereignty needs. We are not a banana republic. Therefore, we cannot expect an official from another country to be damning our Government and making statements that seem to show that we do not know what we are doing. In the western countries, can you imagine what would happen to our ambassador if he/she went to another country and made such a statement? I remember Mr Ali , …
Mr Matongo: Ali Simbule!
Dr Machungwa: … Simbule, who was ambassador to the United Kingdom (UK) …
Hon. Member: High Commissioner!
Dr Machungwa: High Commissioner.
… referred to Britain as a toothless bulldog.
Mr Matongo: Yes!
Dr Machungwa: This was over Rhodesia, Zimbabwe today, when Britain was not able to do anything about the liberation war in Rhodesia. What did the UK do? It kicked him out of the country. What I am trying to say is that we cannot allow a situation where diplomats at a lower level from wherever…
Mr Kambwili: Do not insult people!
Dr Machungwa: Yes! An ambassador is not even at the same level as Deputy Permanent Secretary. He is at a lower level than that of Deputy the Permanent Secretary. These Ambassadors cannot be coming to tell our President and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs that this is the way they want things done. There are diplomatic channels of discussing issues. When the Head of State tells people to pack and go if they are not interested, he is right. We are not a banana republic but an independent country. If you want to go and plead for funds for your campaign, do it in the night somewhere.
Hon. PF Members: Question!
Mr Kambwili interjected.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The hon. Member for Roan will stop disturbing the person debating.
Dr Machungwa: Sir, in concluding my debate, let me also mention that the Head of State is the Chief Executive of this country. He is the Chief Public Relations Officer of this country to the world. For those who have never been in Government, perhaps they need to learn a little from us who have been in Government.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Machungwa: Mr Chairperson, if there are meetings and we send an Ambassador to go and see the Queen of England, Mr David Cameron or Mr Hu Jintao, do you know how long that will take for the ambassador to be seen? It will take two to three years and, meanwhile, we need help. What we need is to let our President go there because he will be accorded that respect. The doors will be open for him. When the President comes back, he will have led the way and he would have prepared the route for the ambassadors and other officials to go and do business there. Some people here have never been in politics before and therefore, they lack understanding. Some of the people are malicious because they have been in politics, but they keep trying to mislead the people. I forgive them for this. When the President goes to deal with these countries and opens doors for diplomats and businessmen, they condemn him and say he is travelling too much. That is not the way it should be.
Mr Chairperson, for example, our President was invited for a celebration in Nigeria and he took the Amayenge with him. The Amayenge are part of our cultural heritage.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: You are finished ba mudala imwe. Namupwa!
Dr Machungwa: You do not know what is called cultural imperialism. You always want to dance to music from foreign countries. It is time you also exported the music you have. We should be proud to go and show them the Amayenge group there and say, “This is Zambia.” What is wrong with that?
Interruptions
Dr Machungwa: Some of you want to see what the President has done in a negative perspective. God knows why you want to mislead the people.
Mr Kambwili: Ba mudala, mulelwisha fye adoption.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
There is only one person debating.
Dr Machungwa: Mr Chairperson, as I have said before, you are here to try and provide hope, direction and motivation to the people of Zambia. You cannot be coming here to always moan and say this is wrong. Try and find opportunities in those challenges so that we can move forward. For the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I would like to urge you to do the best you can. For the President, we would like to encourage you to travel even more and get more for Zambia.
Interruptions
Dr Machungwa: For those diplomats who do not want to respect Zambia as a sovereign State, they have no business in being in diplomacy because the field of diplomacy has its own ways of handling issues. If you do not agree, you go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and discuss issues there. That is the way it is supposed to be done, but if they want to …
Mr Kambwili: Efyo wa sendele K2 billion, mudala iwe.
Laughter
Mrs Musokotwane: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, is Hon. Liato in order to turn this Chamber into a dining room. He has been eating for the last thirty minutes and I have been watching him
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: I am still not going to get involved in what happens between individuals who tease each other. The hon. Member for Luapula can continue.
Dr Machungwa: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that there are certain ways of dealing with issues involving diplomats. It is not for diplomats to come and lecture us.
Lieutenant- General Shikapwasha: Awe!
Dr Machungwa: You can imagine if you went to India or China and began to make statements and tell the people there that they cannot do this and that. That is not they way to do things. As Zambia, let us not reduce ourselves just for a few dollars so that we begin dancing to the tune of these people. We respect the assistance we get from them, but we are going to deal with them in the established diplomatic way.
With those few remarks, I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I would like to thank all those who have debated and I appreciate the interest and passion that they have shown for this ministry.
However, I would like to refer to some of the issues that were raised by Hon. Matongo about professionalism. Indeed, all the people who have gone into diplomatic service have passed through the diplomatic school. I will be very grateful if somebody who did not can be brought forward.
Sir, as hon. Minister, I have made it a point that nobody should be posted to foreign service without passing through diplomatic school, whether he is a cadre or not. Who is a cadre? A cadre is not synonymous with illiteracy. The word, ‘cadre’ means somebody who is very passionate and committed. One can be a cadre of anything. So, please, let us not misuse this word. So far, I am quite happy with the performance of those who have gone on diplomatic missions.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, I appreciate your concern and if there is anything that my ministry has to do to improve, we will definitely look into that because we want nothing but the best.
Sir, let me comment on the issue of properties. Currently, we are renting properties and we are spending a lot of money on rentals. In some countries, there are mortgages available. You will find that the locals in those countries are able to get mortgages and let their properties out. They will be able to service the mortgage from the rentals and even remain with something. Why not get a mortgage as an embassy so that we avoid these large expenses? That is what we have decided to do.
Mr Chairperson, Hon. Masebo, mentioned that we have to keep talking about the trips of the President. I have been on ZNBC Radio 1 and Radio Phoenix on phone-in programmes talking about the Presidential trips. In this House, when I was contributing to the President’s Speech, I belaboured to talk about the importance of Presidential trips. If Hon. Masebo feels we should always talk about them, we will continue to do so. However, it should not be left to us alone. All those who understand the importance of Presidential trips should explain to those who do not understand.
Mr Chairperson, Zambia attaches a lot of importance to a number of treaties. I would like to inform this House that quite a number of treaties have been signed, particularly at the African Union (AU) level. Only a few remain and we are determined to have them and other protocols signed and ratified, especially those that concern governance because we are leaders in this area and we are regarded as such. We cannot, therefore, let issues of governance go without being supported by a country like Zambia and this Government.
Mr Chairperson, the Western Sahara issue as you may be aware, is at the UN level and whatever the outcome, Zambia being a member of the UN will respect it.
Hon. Kambwili talked about fifty-three diplomats being recalled. I think that part of this issue was addressed by Hon. Dr Machungwa. However, I wish to inform you that most of those recalled had served their contracts and others had even gone beyond their contracts. The contract is three years and some of them served in the Foreign Service for more than twelve years. There are other Zambians who need these positions. As a matter of fact, if you keep a diplomat in Foreign Service for twelve to fifteen years, they lose touch with what is happening back home.
Lieutenant- General Shikapwasha: Yes!
Mr Pande: The best is to recall them after the contract finishes and send them back again after three years. Only then will they be effective. We cannot keep a diplomat for fifteen years outside the country. When the fifty-three were recalled, most of them had served beyond their contracts. Therefore, there was no malice involved at all.
Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kambwili also talked about the Chief Executive of Luanshya Copper Mine. I think that, probably, it is the attitude you have shown him that scares him. I would also be scared.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Pande: You are always threatening them. If I was the Chief Executive at Luanshya Copper Mine, I would definitely not allow you to see me because of the threats.
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Pande: You have been threatening them. However, no visas are required to see chief executive officers.
Laughter
Mr Pande: The man is just taking precautions because of the threats you have been issuing.
Interruptions
Mr Pande: Hon. Chongo’s debate was very informative and educative for those who still question the trips by the President. Hon. Lieutenant- General Shikapwasha: Dr Machungwa also debated very well regarding a number of issues.
Regarding Sudan, the people from that country will be voting some time in February, if my memory serves me right. Zambia, as a country, has been encouraging both parties involved to respect the outcome of the referendum.
With those few remarks, I would like to thank the House for its support.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Vote 17/01 ordered to stand to part of the Estimates.
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Vote 17/50 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Boma!
VOTE 34 – (Human Rights Commission – Headquarters – K10,038,547,158).
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the budget for the Human Rights Commission for 2011.
The Human Rights Commission is a constitutional body established under Article 125, in Part XII of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. The powers and functions of the commission are outlined in the Human Rights Commission Act No. 39 of 1996. Its main functions are to:
(i) investigate any human rights violations;
(ii) investigate maladministration of justice;
(iii) conduct inspections of prisons, police cells and other places of detention;
(iv) carry out continuance programmes of research, human rights education and awareness; and
(v) facilitate the rehabilitation of victims of human rights abuse.
Mr Chairperson, the commission may, as appropriate, also conduct public sittings at which human rights issues are heard.
Sir, for 2011, the Human Rights Commission has been allocated a total amount of K10,038,547,158 to implement the above-mentioned functions and achieve its vision and mission. This amount shows an increase of more than K1.4 billion compared to the approved 2010 budget for the Commission which was at K8,587,495,029. The increase in the budget allocation to the commission is in line with the Government’s overall commitment to ensuring that good governance institutions are given the necessary support they require so that they are able to contribute effectively to the Government’s efforts in upholding democracy and good governance.
Sir, in 2011, the commission will, through its Investigations and Legal Services Department, continue to conduct investigations throughout the country on reported cases of human rights violations and visit places of detention, these being prisons and police cells. Through this department, the commission also plans to undertake training in human rights for law enforcement agencies
Another activity the commission will undertake, in 2011, is to develop a well-structured human rights education programme for Zambian colleges. This programme is intended to contribute to on-going efforts to develop capacity in teachers as they teach civic education.
Mr Chairperson, allow me to report that the commission is currently developing a new ten-year national plan of action for human rights. This exercise is being undertaken with support from the Government through the Governance Secretariat in the Ministry of Justice.
Sir, in conclusion, I wish to inform the House that the commission will continue to play its role in helping to bring about a society that respects and upholds human rights for all persons in Zambia.
Mr Chairperson, I urge this august House to support the 2011 Budget for the Human Rights Commission.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important Vote.
Sir, the Human Rights Commission is very important and it deals with the rights that Zambian people are supposed to enjoy. It is interesting to note that K10,038,547,158 has been allocated to this Vote. For many years, of course, there have been allocations of funds to this Vote, but the unfortunate part has been that very little has been spent on trying to educate the Zambian people to appreciate and understand their human rights.
Sir, there has been a lot of abuse of human rights in this country. For example, we have had situations where people have been detained illegally or arrested without any serious reasons being given at all. Of late, we even have a situation where people are being imprisoned without following the normal process to warrant this. This is a serious abuse of human rights.
The Public Order Act is very wellknown. Under this Act, the Zambian people have the right to freedom of expression and it is clearly stated that they can do this through demonstrations. Unfortunately, we have a situation where the Government comes in to try and use force to stop people from expressing their views. People do such things not to bring about confusion, but to bring to the attention of the leadership in the Government certain issues for them to be addressed.
Mr Nkhata: Question!
Mr Mwenya: Therefore, it is important that the bulk of the K10, 038,547,158 that has been allocated to this Vote is spent not only on training law enforcement officers, but also to enlighten the Zambian people so that they are able to understand their rights. When the people understand their rights, then they will be able to defend themselves unlike the situation that is prevailing at the moment where people do not know their rights and are being arrested and pushed left, right and centre.
For example, today, people are being arrested and detained when found walking at about 2100 or 2200 hours. There is no State of Emergency in this country and neither is there a curfew to warrant this. It is because people do not know their rights that they are detained at night and, in the morning, forced to pay an admission of guilt fine which is not supposed to be the case. On the contrary, the law enforcement officers are supposed to be working in harmony with the people. It is expected that, for example, when I am moving at night and I find a police officer, as a Zambian citizen, I should know that I am safe. As such, I can rush over to the police officer and explain my circumstances in the hope that the police officer will help me safely get where I am going. We do not want to see a situation where, when I see a police officer, I should take cover or run away. This is …
Hon. Members: Order!
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
There is only one Chair here.
Laughter
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was advancing the point that this is a very important commission, but the unfortunate part is that the majority of the Zambian people do not even know whether or not it exists. Those who know that it does do not know its functions. It is cardinal that, with the amount of money that has been allocated, the commission uses the bulk of it to sensitise the people so that they know where to go to when they are faced with issues that infringe on their human rights.
Mr Chairperson, for example, we have certain associations in markets such as the Zambia National Union of Marketeers (ZANAMA), which has created cells within the markets to detain people. When people die in those cells, the police are not there to assist. When people rush to the Human Rights Commission, it, too, fails to address such issues. What is required here is for the Government to give the commission teeth to bite so that it can act when such issues arise. This is because if it cannot act when called upon, then we are wasting resources on maintaining such an institution, as the essence of having it is defeated.
Mr Chairperson, I would also like to mention here that the commission should be autonomous and I want to believe that this is the situation prevailing. However, I feel that there is interference and it is failing to perform independently. We would like to see the commission coming out to show that it is able to represent the Zambian people. For instance, we had a situation in Mopani where thirty-five women were retrenched because they were pregnant. We expected the Human Rights Commission to speak on behalf of these people since the affected women took this matter before it but, so far, nothing has been done. These are some of the issues that are talked about.
Mr Chairperson, it is not just about extending cells or improving prisons, although we know that this is also important, but we would also like to see matters that affect people on the ground being quickly addressed.
Sir, young people sleeping on the streets is another issue that needs to be worked on. What is the commission doing, working in conjunction with other ministries, to make sure that the young boys and girls are removed from the streets and taken to a conducive environment? These are some of the challenges the commission should address. If it fails to face such challenges presented before it by the people, the essence of having it is defeated and the K10 billion given to this institution, to some of us, would be regarded as wasted revenue.
Mr Chairperson, I hope that with these few words, the commission will take note of the points that I have raised and see where it can improve.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this chance to contribute to the debate on the Floor in support of the commission.
Mr Chairperson, I will restrict my debate to the rights of the vulnerable groups, which are women, children and the disabled persons. I know that the Government, through the relevant ministry, has done a lot in coming up with legislation and policies which protect the rights of the vulnerable groups. However, my concern is that of awareness.
Last year, K39 million was allocated for sensitisation but, this year, there is only K20 million. Some regions do not have offices and so there is still a lot of work to be done in that direction. So, it is important that we support the commission in the area of sensitisation. This is because it will be of no help to have laws that people do not understand.
Mr Chairperson, for example, on the issue of wife battering, we still have people who think that beating their women is a sign of love.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: My wife beat me up yesterday.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I have also heard men complaining that women beat them up. However, even though that may be true, there is more wife battering than there is male battering in Zambia today.
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mrs Masebo: Therefore, there is a need to sensitise the people that it is actually an offence and not love to batter their spouses.
Sir, another issue is that, in the rural areas such as my constituency, a lot of women do not know that it is an offence when their husbands beat or abuse them. Unless the commission intensifies sensitisation programmes, these vices will continue.
Mr Chairperson, the law on gender violence has taken long to be presented before the House. The other day, the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice was on radio saying that the Government was doing something about it, but was still working on the title of the Bill because women want a different title from what it is at the moment. Surely, small things like the title should not hold us back for an entire year. A lot of women are dying in homes from being beaten by men. Sometimes, it is not only physical beating, but most women live under slave conditions. Despite being married, their husbands are never at home and do not care for their families. All these are abuses.
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Unless people understand that …
Mr Mabenga: Who bought you that suit?
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, the problems start from here.
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: You can hear the comments being passed by men. They think it is their right to harass women.
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, it is not just about wife battering, but even the violent language that is used towards women is against their rights. When they are passing here where I sit they do not even say, “Excuse me”, but just kick your leg.
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: So with all that, you can see that the Government has a lot of work to do in sensitising even the elected officials so that they can also go and sensitise their people.
Mr Chairperson, the last point is that as we are advocates for human rights, there is a need to balance the issues of cultural rights and human rights. I know that some of the rights that we have advocated for may have a negative impact on our culture. For example, in schools or even at home, it is important to know how to treat our children in terms of imparting discipline in them. Sometimes, teachers in schools are scared to discipline pupils because everything now is interpreted as a violation of human rights. Therefore, I think, as a country, we have to be very careful how far we should go with the issue of rights. Otherwise, we will find ourselves in a situation where our country will be completely out of touch with our culture.
Mr Chairperson, for example, there are issues of homosexuality which others will advocate for as a human right, where women are married to each other and men are married to each other. Next time, a human being can even marry an animal, ati it is a human right.
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I think that we have to be careful how far we should go with these rights.
Mr Chairperson, finally, I just wanted to say that the police officers also have a lot to learn in regard to human rights. Some of the police officers do not seem to know what constitutes violation of human rights. When you go to report something, they will tell you, “Aah! naimwe kamene aka ka nkhani ndiye kamene mubwelela ku polisi”. They say things like that.
Hon. Members: Meaning what?
Mrs Masebo: This means that these are small or kitchen or bedroom matters and so, just go and resolve them at home.
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, that is unfair. Therefore, there is a need not just to sensitise the public, but also some of the institutions in the country, especially the police.
However, all in all, I would like to commend the Human Rights Commission for the work that it is doing. Generally, you can see when you go outside Zambia that it is way ahead in terms of human rights. We are trying in that regard.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on this very important Vote, which I wholesomely support although, I feel it needs to be allocated a lot of money by this House.
Mr Chairperson, there has been a lot of controversy concerning human rights. The controversy has emanated from people who have advocated for their rights to be justifiable and this has generated a lot of debate.
Mr Chairperson, I will start my debate from the premise that to have people governed and those that govern comes from a social contract. Governments did not come into being by accident. If you look at history, you will find that governments came into being through a lot of revolutions. Politics, as understood today, came from the Greek, who defined the association from the polis, that is, the cities and associations they had as today’s modern politics.
Mr Chairperson, maybe, just to amplify that, the Greeks, for those who are franchised and unfortunately, used to disfranchise women. They used to sit and talk about their affairs. What has developed today into modern politics is a model of the Greek polis state which today is called modern politics, but has become complicated. In the polis, people used to talk about their well-being and how they were going to govern themselves. Today, modern politics has become complicated.
Yes, I sat and looked at some of the issues which were brought up where people said to me and rightly so, that they advocated that if you do not provide water and they were able to prove that you are able to do so, it became a court case where a government can be held responsible. This is applicable where you cannot provide housing. However, in Zambia, if we had such kind of cases and the people were always in court trying to defend their rights, would we be able to defend this country? That is where we were a little defensive.
Mr Chairperson, the principle remains that the Government has to provide for its people. This is where we have to rationalise our resources and maximise our earnings so that we are able to provide for our people. The dangers come in governance where, as leaders, sometimes, we tend to tilt a little. There can be a scenario where leaders can align themselves to, maybe, a commercial proposition or a situation whereby they allow something to happen because, maybe, one of the leaders is a bad grain. It is not always that all the leaders are bad grains, but there are bad grains within the leadership.
Mr Chairperson, a human right can be infringed upon if, for instance, today, the people who are in charge of the mines came to the Government and said, we are offering you US$50 million for your pockets and you do away with taxing the mines. This is a situation where money goes into people’s pockets and people are enriching themselves at the expense of someone having access to water, a school or a clinic within a reasonable radius. It is an infringement on human rights.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I am not saying it is happening and I am not saying this situation is obtaining. I know Hon. Kambwili is saying this is the reason the Government has removed Section 37 of Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). No, the Government is thinking of how to deal with that. For those who have property, Hon. Kambwili, and cannot show the income tax and declarations in those years the properties were acquired, the property can be confiscated through the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). Therefore, we still have other ways in which we can have that addressed.
Interruptions
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, today, people, like those who are making money, can think that they are able to get away with malpractices, but measures have been put in place to address such. I know there are rumours and everyone here knows that there are people who put about US$585,000 in one person’s pocket. I know it is a rumour, but it is a very strong rumour which has to be investigated.
Interruptions
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, the bottom line is that if something like that happens, it is an abuse of human rights. Why should one individual entrusted with Government authority get so much money for himself? It means that person is making money at the expensive of the Zambians. Instead of a Zambian having water, a clinic, a hospital and a school near him/her, where public funds are pocketed, these services are not provided. This is an abuse of human rights and this is why we have to empower the Human Rights Commission not with K10 billion, but K100 billion. This way, they can see, as a way of governance, whether you are sure we do not have the money to provide social amenities.
Today, the Congo DRC is one of the poorest countries, and yet it produced one of the richest presidents.
Mr Chairperson, I tell people that there is one issue I was told. Sometimes, leaders like President Mobutu Sese Seko make a lot of money which their children have not accessed because they want to hide that money through proxies. When you die, and your children want to access that money and the one you put as a proxy says prove if it is your father’s money.
Interruptions
Mr Shakafuswa: That money is gone. So, you will find that you do not need that money, all you need is what you are able to use and declare.
The extent of poverty in a country usually depends on its governance system. There are situations where a country is said to be rich, and yet the wealth is only in the hands of the elite. Those at the grassroots are very poor. In such a situation, few people are able to observe human rights of their children and other members of the family. At the end of the day, the voiceless will have no water and food, which are supposed to be their basic human rights.
According to Adam Smith, an 18th Century Scottish Philosopher, governance is a covenant between those who are governed and those that govern. Therefore, governance should not be used as a means by which leaders enrich themselves and get out of poverty. Adam Smith philosophised that those who govern should abide by the covenant of the social contract, whose premise is to work according to the demands of the people they govern.
Governance is like managing a company. This is why I like people like Mr Hakainde Hichilema, whom I saw on television, yesterday. He said that running a government is business. When you are running a government, you have to ensure that you maximise your revenue and as you are expending, wankalako nakaso, meaning that you become a little bit strict. Therefore, this is one issue which we have to seriously look into.
Mr Chairperson, nowadays, some people are monopolising Government contracts. For example, in the agriculture sector, where the nationwide demand for fertiliser is about 230,000 metric tonnes and the Government has bought 190,000 metric tonnes from two companies. These two companies sat down together to create a monopoly in terms of bids. One company bids in one region and the other one in another region. How come this coincidence? The bottom line is that companies are creating cartels to win tenders from the Government, and thereby creating monopolies. Therefore, today, all the fertiliser companies will not be able to win any tenders to supply. Even the rule that a company is supposed to have 50 per cent of the stock being tendered for in the country and, in this case, we are talking about 80,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser, has not helped because …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Hon. Member, I am trying to follow your line of debate, but you seem to be veering off the issue of human rights. Would you, please, ensure that you revert to debating the Vote on the Floor.
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I am trying to reconcile the people’s demand that human rights should be ‘justiciable’ with the issue of shortcuts in Government contracts on service provision to the nation. Shortcuts in public tenders lead to people making assumptions such that US$585,000 of public funds is deposited in one person’s account.
Mr Kambwili: Who has not been fired.
Interruptions
Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Shakafuswa: Therefore, what I am trying to say …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Shakafuswa: … although these are rumours …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Chilembo: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member in order to dwell on rumours? He keeps repeating that figure and acknowledges that the issue he is referring to is just a rumour.
The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order reminds the hon. Member debating that this is not a House of rumours but facts. May he, therefore, avoid rumours and debate the Vote on the Human Rights Commission, which is on the Floor.
The hon. Member may continue.
Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I hope the hon. Deputy Minister will show that this money did not pass through that account.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Please, the point of order has been ruled on. You debate the Vote for the Human Rights Commission.
Mr Shakafuswa: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. As leaders, we have an obligation to the people who demand certain services from us. As we govern, we should be able to respect rights of people despite being a poor country. In other countries, access to water, food and education are considered human rights.
Nonetheless, I support His Honour the Vice-President’s statement he made at the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) that our country’s economic situation has not reached a point where human rights can be ‘justiciable’. This notwithstanding, I think it is wrong for leaders to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority. You will find people enriching themselves behind cards. This is where a very rich country is ranked as a very poor country.
We supported His Honour the Vice-President’s stance on not having the economic strength to make observance of human rights ‘justiciable’ at the NCC, but we have to prove this by our conduct as leaders. It is strange that a person who went to the village because of failure to cope with the living expenses of town life can, today, claim, for example, that he or she owns Zambian Airways and so on and so forth, just because that person is in political leadership. As leaders, we need to show this nation that we are suffering with the people. The people need to see that we are all in the same boat and that is the reason we cannot provide water to the people of Katuba. For instance, there is a problem in Katuba where there are no hospitals and roads cannot be rehabilitated because of lack of funds. However, if public funds are being held in one’s pocket, like the unsubstantiated rumours, we will not be able to spend that money and the people of Zambia will be very annoyed with us.
I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, we have listened to some interesting debates on this Vote, but what has been acknowledged is the fact that, as a country, we have done very well in the area of human rights. We shall continue to pass laws which protect and enhance the respect for human rights and the rule of law. There was an issue raised with regard to the Gender Based Violence Bill. I must assure Hon. Masebo that the drafting of this Bill has now been finalised and will be brought to this House any time soon. I agree with her that we should fight gender-based violence and foreign practices such as homosexuality …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … which she mentioned. We shall fight these practices tooth and nail.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 34/01 – (Human Rights Commission – Headquarters – K10,038,547,158).
Dr Machungwa: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 404, Unit 4, Programme 9, Activity 01 – Mobile Complaints and Investigation Clinics. Last year, there was an allocation of K38,960,000 for this activity but, this year, there is nothing. Are there not going to be any mobile investigations since there is no allocation?
The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Chilembo): Mr Chairperson, the core functions of the commission as stated in the Human Rights Commission Act are as follows:
(i) to investigate human rights violations and investigate maladministration of justice; and
(ii) the provision will enable the commission to carry out the outlined activities.
The Deputy Chairperson: No, you are answering a different one. It is programme 9, on page 404, Activity 1 – Mobile Complaints and Investigation Clinics, Nil.
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, the answer is that this year, we will concentrate on general investigations as provided for under the Act and that there will be no mobile investigations. Mobile complaints and investigations clinics will not be undertaken this year.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 80 − (Ministry of Education – Headquarters – K3,791,573,847,495).
The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, I take this opportunity to give a policy statement on the 2011 Budget for the Ministry of Education.
In the first instance, allow me to talk about the importance of education in our lives. Education is not only a social responsibility, but also a powerful tool for the economic emancipation of an individual and the nation. The education system is aimed at producing civically responsible citizens who are able to interact with other individuals who may have similar or divergent views and also offers an opportunity for individuals to engage with the national economy positively.
Mr Chairperson, we get concerned when we witness the kind of intolerance and lack of respect exhibited by individuals and certain quarters when discussion matters of national interest either through the electronic or print media and, indeed, in many other social gatherings. Of particular concern is the culture of insulting when articulating issues of national concern and even pretending to be an expert on all issues and never hesitant to offer an opinion even if it is ignorant. To be educated goes beyond being schooled, it calls for people being able to discuss issues in a civil manner. In fact, one does not need to have formal education to realise that it is only those who are inadequate in one way or another who jump to insults or demeaning others in debate.
Mr Chairperson, I wish to repeat that the education system goes beyond what goes on in the classroom. It includes what goes on in society and individual homes in particular. For instance, how many parents take time to teach their children well founded family values such as self-respect, discipline, hard work, tolerance and Christianity? There is also a need in a liberal economy to respect both private and public property. How many parents take time to find who there children are mixing with, what programmes they are watching on television, the kinds of books they are reading, what they are surfing on the internet and how many of us go to interact with the teachers of our children to understand how the children are performing in school and what kind of support they require from the parents? We have noted, with concern, a new trend by parents of using shopping malls as babysitters for very young children, especially over the weekends.
Mr Chairperson, it is the absence of guidance from parents and society as a whole that has failed our children and this is manifested in early marriages, children dropping out of school, alcohol and substance abuse and, generally, young people coming into conflict with the law.
My ministry has provided various platforms such as the Parent-Teacher’s Association meetings, school open days and Sector Joint Annual Reviews for participation of individuals and communities. You are aware that in the past, communities were much more involved in infrastructure development and not what goes in the classroom.
It is the intension of my ministry to continue to engage parents and communities to actively participate in the actual learning of their children by focusing on the actual teaching and learning process. Parents and communities will need to commit more resources and time to the education of their children if we are to sustain the gains that we have achieved. I am reminded of the words of Mr Nelson Mandela who said “Children will get the kind of education that their parents want them to.”
Mr Chairperson, my ministry is resolved to transform society by addressing the vices that I have highlighted above through curriculum reform and careful selection of individuals who opt to train as teachers. Teaching is not like any other profession. It is a calling that demands for total commitment since a teacher, like parents and guardians, has to deal with children and mould them into future responsible citizens.
The year 2011 is very significant to the realisation of aspirations of my ministry. This is because it marks the beginning of the Six National Development Plan from 2011 to 2015 which coincides with the attainment of the Global commitment such as the millennium development goals and the Education for All Goals. In particular, this budget will give us an opportunity to step up our efforts to ensure that all learners, boys and girls, complete a full course of basic education. We are also resolved to eliminate gender disparity in the basic, high school and at tertiary education levels by 2015.
It is against this background that the Government has made bold decisions in the 2011 Budget to realign the budget provisions from non-core programmes to priority areas with the main emphasis on increased access to quality education. My ministry is driven by the passion to avail quality education to every citizen irrespective of their geographical location, beliefs and ethnic backgrounds.
Mr Chairperson, allow me to reflect on a number of key achievements scored by my ministry during the period 2008 to 2010 during which we have been implementing the Medium Term Expenditure Framework. In the area of infrastructure development at the basic school level, my ministry, through the yearly infrastructure operation plans, has achieved the following:
(i) since 2008, we have constructed a total of 4,050 classrooms using the community mode of construction where the Government and the community pool resources towards infrastructure development. This initiative has created school places for 161,080 learners using single shift of classroom utilisation;
(ii) as at September, 2010, an additional fifty-one basic schools have been constructed, each with an average of five classrooms and five teachers’ houses per school using the contractor mode of construction. These basic schools created classroom capacity for 2,040;
(iii) my ministry has continued with the expansion of infrastructure in order to accelerate the attainment of its goal of providing equitable access to quality education, especially for children in under served and hard-to-reach areas. It is expected that by the end of the Six National Development Plan, the ministry would have constructed a total of 16,014 extra classrooms using the community mode of construction, thereby creating classroom space for 440,000 pupils at the basic school level; and
(iv) additionally, rehabilitation works were carried out at 347 school sites, comprising both teachers’ houses and classroom blocks.
Mr Chairperson, the Government, through my ministry, is committed to constructing 100 schools using both the community and contractor modes of construction. The ministry commenced the construction of forty-seven schools under the contractor mode in 2008 and thirty-two schools out of these are expected to be completed by the end of 2011. These will create 32,250 additional learning spaces. This year, in 2010, we have embarked on the construction of twenty-two schools bringing the total to 69 high schools. Construction of high schools is expected to be completed by 2014. This will create additional learning spaces for 100,000 pupils.
Sir, research has shown that a nation that pays lip service to tertiary education cannot expect to attain higher prosperity for its citizens. We are cognisant of the many statements to the effect that the Ministry of Education is concentrating on basic education. This is not entirely true. It was critical for us to address the basic needs in education, especially from 2007 onwards since we had a deficit of over 2 million school places. We have since created school places for over 1.6 million children. We have, however, also been addressing the challenges at institutions of higher learning. To revamp this sub-sector, the Government liberalised the provision of tertiary education and this has led to the establishment and registration of twelve private universities. I am aware that these private institutions of higher learning are experiencing a number of challenges, but I think what is important is that the Zambians are hungry for education and the private sector is responding positively to this.
The Government has classified education as an economic sector and has created various incentives under the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA). In this regard, the Government is offering to allocate land on a ninety-nine year lease for local and foreign investors to build schools, colleges and universities as private concerns. Other specific incentives are outlined in the second schedule of the ZDA Act and I urge hon. Members of Parliament and the public to familiarise themselves with the same. We are also open to public-private partnerships (PPPs).
We have fostered partnerships between local and international universities. Classic examples in this area are the launch of the XVD Technology at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University at a cost of less than US$500,000. The XVD Technology is an interactive learning solution which is delivered through the optical fibre network involving the use of cameras and high definition video conferencing systems. The project has facilitated transmission of lectures between the two universities and a university in Japan.
The Mulungushi University was connected to the Pan-African E-network Project. The network is designed to provide e-services with priority on tele-education and tele-medicine through video conferencing by linking African universities to the best Indian universities. We have also upgraded the Zambia Institute of Special Education to a centre of excellence for training teachers for special education needs.
The ministry is also expanding infrastructure at UNZA where the construction of four student hostels at a cost of K30 billion at the Great East Road Campus and K3.8 billion for one hostel at Ridgeway Campus are almost complete. The extra hostels at UNZA will create 640 bed spaces. Together with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, we are pursuing the PPP avenue to complete the construction of unfinished hostels that began during the Comite Organisateur de Jeux Olympiques (COJO) preparations, which is the Organising Committee of the Olympic Games.
At both Mulungushi and Copperbelt universities, infrastructure development is almost complete with the library, school of business, lecture theatre, lecture rooms and renovation of student hostels undertaken. Construction of additional infrastructure at two colleges of education, namely Nkhrumah and Copperbelt Secondary Teachers’ College (COSETCO) have reached advanced stages. Currently, they are using the UNZA affiliation status until a statutory instrument is finalised. The ministry is also constructing a university college in Chinsali in the Northern Province called Mulakupikwa University College of Science and Technology at a cost of K107 billion.
Mr Chairperson, in line with the mandate to reduce adult literacy by half by 2015, which is currently standing at an average of 33.5 per cent in Zambia, my ministry has developed twelve suitable adult literacy teaching and learning books for both teachers and learners in English and the seven official local languages. In a bid to accord an opportunity to children who have no access to formal education, my ministry established 277 open learning centres where more than 160,500 learners are able to access education at basic, high and GCE levels.
My ministry also uses electronic media such as radio and television for learners in community schools as well as interactive radio instruction centres throughout the country. The most popular education radio programme is Learning at Taonga Market.
Mr Chairperson, in order to address equity issues, my ministry has done the following:
(i) increased access to education for learners with special education needs from 167,581 in 2006 to 207,437 in 2009 at both basic and high school levels through the massive sensitisation campaigns on radio and the use of child find committees encouraging parents to take their children with special needs to school;
(ii) provided Sefula School for the Blind in Western Province and Magwero Special Education School in Eastern Province with a vehicle each to improve mobility; and
(iii) increased budget allocations to special education schools from K3.56 billion in 2010 to K5.73 billion in 2011.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the ministry in 2004 set up a bursary scheme for orphaned and vulnerable learners in basic and high schools to provide them with an opportunity to access and participate in education. Currently, there are over 101,106 learners in basic schools and 25,178 learners in high school on bursary. My ministry spent a total of K7.4 billion on the bursary scheme in 2010.
Mr Chairperson, in order to encourage children to attend school especially girls who may not have the ability to walk long distances from their homes, my ministry, with the support of co-operating partners, has provided weekly boarding facilities in some areas. This initiative has also helped to protect the girls from being abused. However, I do concede that we must do more to provide more day schools and reduce walking distances for children everywhere in Zambia so that, after school, children should go back to the safety of their homes.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry has worked towards the reduction of the attrition rate through the HIV/AIDS Workplace Policy. We have done this through the provision of voluntary testing and counseling services, formation of care giver support groups and hosting of teacher health days which are aimed at encouraging teachers to live positively. In addition, HIV/AIDS clubs in schools have also helped to sensitise pupils on the dangers of the pandemic. My ministry has also integrated HIV/AIDS and life skills across the curriculum with emphasis on abstinence and behavioural change.
Sir, I am delighted to report to this august House that, from 2008 to date, my ministry has focused on the recruitment of teachers to meet the Education For All (EFA) targets and millennium development goals (MDGs). Yes, we do know that we have to recruit more teachers by 2015 to continue to reduce the pupil/teacher ratio considering that schools will continue to be built. Our plan is to recruit an extra 30,000 teachers from 2011 to 2015, thereby creating real jobs for Zambians. So far, my ministry has recruited and deployed a total of 13,537 teachers from 2008 to date. This exercise is ongoing and, in 2011, my ministry intends to recruit 5,000 teachers by April, 2011.
In order to ensure that there is increased contact time between teachers and learners, my ministry will overhaul and streamline the processes for resolving human resource related cases so that a teacher does not have to leave the classroom to attend to personnel related administration matters. The area of focus in 2010 has been on improving the processes such as appointments, confirmations, promotions and retirements. As a result, more than 23,000 cases of confirmations have since been processed and concluded since 2008.
Mr Chairperson, in order to make the ministry more user friendly and efficient in responding to teachers’ needs, my ministry is working with the Management Development Division (MDD) under Cabinet Office to review the structure of the ministry.
Further, my ministry has introduced an automated human resource information management system aimed at reducing delays in processing human resource matters. This is being piloted in the Lusaka Province. Once the programme has been implemented, …
Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!
Ms Siliya: … there will be efficiency in the processing of human resource cases and late confirmations will be a thing of the past.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry has been facing challenges of retaining teachers in rural and remote areas. To this effect, I am happy to report that the Government has been facilitating the payment of rural and remote hardship allowances. So far, a total of 36, 712 eligible teachers have benefited at a cost of K15 billion per month to the Government. In addition, the payment of house rentals by teachers occupying institutional houses has been suspended to allow the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) work out better modalities.
Sir, let me state that I am aware that we are still experiencing challenges regarding rural and remote hardship allowances in Mwense, Kawambwa, Nchelenge, Namwala, Itezhi-tezhi and Siavonga. I direct the Permanent Secretary, Human Resource Administration, to ensure that this problem ends immediately so that teachers are not unnecessarily agitated.
The ministry of Education has only one major input, the teacher, for it to get the desired output, an educated citizen. As such, all will be done to ensure that the management process responds to the needs of the teacher and the learner.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry remains committed to providing quality education through the provision of teaching and learning materials. It should be noted that having appropriate teaching and learning materials in schools directly impacts on the performance of the learners. Through the provision of teaching and learning materials in schools, my ministry has managed to reduce the pupil/book ratio from as high as 1 to 6 at upper basic (Grade 8 and 9) and 1 to 10 at high school (Grade 10 to 12) to levels of up to 1 to 4. At the lower and middle basic (Grade 1 to 7) levels, the pupil/book ratio has reduced from 1 book to 4 pupils to a ratio of 1 to 2.
Sir, I wish to state that this achievement was made possible by implementing the Decentralisation Policy in procurement of teaching and learning materials to high schools, colleges and district education boards as well as the increased budgetary support by the Government over the years.
Mr Chairperson, another aspect that contributes to quality education is the availability of a conducive learning environment. In order to maintain conducive learning environments, my ministry has made schools become child friendly by employing the following measures:
(i) Water and Sanitation
the Ministry of Education is aware of the many schools that do not have adequate water and sanitation facilities. To address this problem, 151 boreholes were sunk at various school sites nationwide. In 2011, my ministry will continue with this programme and collaborate with the Ministry of Energy and Water Development to accelerate water access, especially in rural areas where most of our schools are challenged;
(ii) Provision of Desks
in 2007, the ministry carried out a desk audit which revealed that the ideal number of desks required in schools was 803,436 and the estimated shortfall was 436,321. In order to address the shortfall, the ministry began procuring desks and, so far, a total of 216,110 desks has been procured and distributed to schools countrywide. We, as a ministry, are making frantic efforts to procure an extra 250,000 desks by January, 2011 so that desk shortfalls will be a thing of the past; and
(iii) School Health and Nutrition Programme
A total of 201 million learners in basic schools benefited from the health and nutrition interventions, including treatment for worms through the School Health and Nutrition programme. A further 320,000 learners in 870 schools received meals under the school feeding programmed.
In 2009, the school health month was introduced and is celebrated every year in July to ensure that learners are healthy and in a healthy school environment.
I would also like to mention that the School Health and Nutrition Programme is collaborating with the United Nations International Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and other partner organisations to improve water, sanitation and hygiene in 500 schools in selected districts in six provinces, namely the Copperbelt, Eastern, Lusaka, Luapula, Southern and North-Western.
I would like to take this opportunity to urge all hon. Members of Parliament to actively participate in school health and nutrition programmes by ensuring that all schools in their constituencies undertake the activities for the benefit of learners.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry has made tremendous strides in incorporating information communication technology (ICT) in the education sector. As at 2010, my ministry had installed a wide-area-network interconnecting all offices at the Ministry of Education Headquarters. All the nine provincial education offices and the fourteen colleges of education are connected to the internet. The development and expansion of the ICT infrastructure has contributed to my ministry’s improved effectiveness and efficiency in education management and delivery. Our vision is to have all the seventy-two districts connected to the ministry’s saver by 2012.
Mr Chairperson, the Government also hosted the E-learning Conference in May, 2010. The successful hosting of the conference was a clear demonstration of the country’s commitment towards mainstreaming and using ICT in various socio-economic sectors such as education, health and agriculture.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry has also procured an e-learning mobile laboratory bus which is meant to be used as a teaching and learning tool for ICT and provision of internet facilities in order to reduce the digital divide. Since the mobile laboratory was purchased, my ministry has conducted hands-on orientation on the use of the ICT to 1,200 teachers, and 2,300 learners in Lusaka Province. I urge the hon. Members of Parliament to co-ordinate with my ministry to ensure that this mobile e-learning bus visits their constituencies.
Mr Chairperson, in recognising achievements in education by learners, institutions, administrators, teachers and members of the public, my ministry introduced educational awards in May, 2010 and this will be an annual event. In May, this year, ninety-eight awards were given for best male and female students at Grades 7, 9 and 12 and in various faculties at the universities, including agriculture, education, business and others.
Mr Chairperson, allow me now to present to the House the priorities for the ministry in 2011:
(i) improve the quality of service delivery through learner-centre teaching methodologies and provision of teaching and learning materials as well as effective teacher management;
(ii) increase access to quality education delivery at the basic, high school and tertiary level;
(iii) reduce the indebtedness of education institutions, including lasting solutions to problems facing the Zambia Education Publishing House and ZAMNET; and
(iv) introduce more strategies to reduce adult illiteracy.
My ministry has allocated K131 billion for the recruitment of 5,000 teachers which will not only contribute to the lowering of the teacher-pupil ratio, but also increase contact time. Mr Chairperson, again, these are real jobs for Zambians.
My ministry remains committed to dismantling salary related arrears owed to teachers and the indebtedness of public universities. To this effect, my ministry has allocated K81 billion for payment of salaries and personal emoluments related arrears owed to teachers countrywide. I wish to inform the House that my ministry has allocated another K78 billion to reduce personal emoluments related arrears at UNZA CBU.
The education policy demands that the curriculum be reviewed every five years after the date of implementation. I am happy to report that, currently, my ministry is undertaking a comprehensive review of the curriculum to make it responsive to the needs of individual learners and society. A total of K33.6 billion has been allocated to this programme.
Mr Chairperson, the provision of education materials in the teaching and learning process is critical to the attainment of quality education. To this effect, the ministry has allocated K25 billion for the procurement of education materials and K12.3 billion for the purchase of free basic education requisites.
Sir, in addition, the ministry has allocated K1 billion to the National Science Centre for the production of 230 mobile science laboratories which will be distributed to 150 basic schools which have no permanent science laboratories at the moment. The ministry has also allocated K38.5 billion for the procurement of 86,096 desks to enhance the teaching and learning process.
Sir, in order to support quality service delivery in schools, the ministry has increased basic school grants by 24 per cent from K78 billion in 2010 to K96.9 billion in 2011. High school grants have increased by 30 per cent from K56.6 billion to K72.8 billion. This is a reflection of our commitment to the core business of the Ministry of Education which is teaching and learning.
Mr Chairperson, the ministry will continue with the construction of classrooms at the basic school level using the community mode. In 2011, a total of 2,000 classrooms, 200 staff houses and 500 VIP latrines will be constructed at a cost of K177.4 billion. In addition, K5.5 billion has been set aside to address the perennial problem of blown off roofs due to heavy and windy rains. In the area of increased access to high school and tertiary sectors, the ministry will focus on the on-going construction work scheduled for completion by 2012. It is expected that thirty-two high schools will be completed in 2011. The ministry will transform colleges of education so that they can offer diploma and degree programmes. A total of K500 million has been provided for this purpose.
Sir, in order to expand the provision of university education, the ministry plans to build additional universities in the provinces. In 2011, the ministry will commence planning for the construction of more universities in the North-Western, Southern and Eastern provinces. At the same time, the ministry will complete construction works of the three public universities and colleges of education and that is Nkrumah Teachers’ Training College, COSETCO and Mulakupikwa University college of Science and Technology.
Mr Chairperson, financial accountability and transparency are critical pillars in the delivery of the aspirations of this budget. The ministry has, therefore, increased the allocation to the financial system management from K1.49 billion in 2010 to K3.7 billion in 2011 to facilitate the setting up of procurement units and capacity building of accounts units at the district level. This commitment should result in more efficiency and effective utilisation of taxpayers’ money as well as enhance transparency in the operations of the Ministry of Education.
Sir, in 2011, the ministry will continue to review the education policies to bring them in line with the current regional and global trends. Appropriate legislation such as the Education Bill and the Zambia Qualification Framework will also be brought to Parliament soon to enhance the performance of the education sector. Allow me to conclude by stating that education is the pre-requisite to the development of our nation. The ministry will, therefore, continue to respond positively to the education needs of the people in order to improve their quality of education.
Mr Chairperson, I take this opportunity to thank the teachers, education boards and Parents Teachers’ Associations for their continued support to the education sector. I also wish to commend our co-operating partners, the civil society, the Church and other stakeholders for their contribution to the education sector.
Sir, this Government remains committed to investing in the education sector and we will continue to invest in the training of teachers. We will continue with the policy of free basic education and the return-to-school policy of pregnant girls because education matters.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Siliya: Sir, because education matters, the non-mandatory requirement of school uniforms will continue. We will also continue with bursaries for the orphaned and vulnerable children. We will continue to fight the scourges of sexual abuse and exam malpractices in schools. As education matters, we will also continue to support colleges and universities and encourage innovation and creativity through science and technology. We will continue to address the outstanding issues such as arrears for teachers and lecturers and other challenges facing institutions of higher learning. Since education matters, we ask everyone to walk with us on the road to attaining the 2015 Education for All (EFA) goals and the Vision 2030.
Mr Chairperson, because education matters, I wish to call upon the hon. Members of Parliament to support my ministry’s budget.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Education. I would like to thank the hon. Minister for her lengthy policy statement.
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: I would like to show appreciation for her passionate way of expressing herself with regard to her job and I would like to encourage her to continue on this path.
Mr Chairperson, I have a few issues to discuss on the K3.7 trillion budget, as given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. My immediate observation is that it falls far short of the Abuja Declaration to which Zambia appended her signature in terms of the ratio of the entire National Budget to what is allocated to the ministry. I understand that there are competing needs in our country, but I truly believe that they could have done a lot better, taking this into account.
Mr Chairperson, I also would like to take this opportunity to thank religious organisations that exist in this country and have continued to partner with the Government in providing education to the citizens of this country. I would like to single out the Catholic Church and Seventh Day Adventist Church for continuously, for many years, being partners in providing education to citizens.
I would also like to pass my heartfelt gratitude to organisations such as the People’s Action Forum, Plan International and those that I have not mentioned here, for joining the Government, by which I mean all us of here, in assisting to provide education to all citizens. Even though it has been a far-fetched achievement to education for all, I would like to recognise the efforts, starting from the hon. Minister’s statement, of the Government and the other organisations.
Mr Chairperson, we all accept that education provides a cornerstone for the fabric of any nation and, following what the hon. Minister said, it is not sufficient to go into a classroom and say, “Good morning, Sir” or “Madam.” and walk back home. Parents must, on a daily basis, continue to supplement the work of the teacher in the form of homework and other tasks given to pupils.
Mr Chairperson, I would like the hon. Minister, as she winds up debate, to explain to me, in no uncertain terms, whether she has seen any positive results regarding the policy that abolished the cut-off point to allow for anybody who has a school certificate for that particular grade to proceed.
I do appreciate a lot of pupils and students were relegated out of the schooling system because of the cut- off point. So, that was a positive thing to do. Therefore, I want to know from the hon. Minister what the ramifications of such a policy change have been so far.
Mr Chairperson, one of the things that is evident is that while the hon. Minister has spoken about the work being done to improve the pupil/teacher ratio, I think that the situation still continues to be worrying. I do appreciate the fact that she has given figures of how many teachers have been employed, those that the ministry intends to employ and, going into the future, how many they want to employ. I still want her, maybe not immediately, to commit that within the shortest possible time, she can come to this House and give us an indication as to whether there is an ultimate positive result of the abolishment of the cut-off point system.
Yes, I know that one of the achievements of the cut-off of point system is that there has been, by and large, a gradual diminishing of the academic production unit (APU). In certain areas, I am sure that the academic production unit still exists in the form of remedial classes. I would like the hon. Minister to look at the whole concern that I have and explain to me at an opportune time so that I can understand whether we are moving in the right direction or not.
I do appreciate the infrastructure development that the Government has embarked on. However, my feelings are that, going by my opening remarks, the figure that I desired to be in the Yellow Book for the allocation on the Ministry of Education should have been somewhere close to the figures that the Government of the Republic of Zambia signed up for in the Abuja Declaration which was 15 per cent. Hon. Minister, I think that the K3,791,573,847,495 against the K20 trillion Budget is slightly low.
Mr Chairperson, again, I also want to give a little emphasis on the quality of education vis-à-vis the pupil/teacher ratio and the contact time between the teacher and the student. It is true that today, in certain parts of this country, we still have a ratio of one teacher to sixty pupils. In a forty minutes’ lesson - the devils lies in the detail, you can tell what sort of contact time the teacher has with each of those sixty-five pupils.
Mr Chairperson, I know what I am speaking about because I am a teacher by profession. I was trained to be a teacher. I know how to draw a lesson plan, how to execute a lesson plan and how to deal with remedial issues. So, in that period of forty minutes, I would like the hon. Minister to come out very clearly on whether or not, according to the assessment by the people who are charged with the responsibilities of checking whether policies are working or not for pupils are coming out of school and going into tertiary education, will still be able to proceed to tertiary education because what we have seen is that there is normally a tsunami, for lack of a better term, that students will go into university and at the first year level, the levels of relegation are not encouraging. The policy does not remain the same that at the university level you just proceed. There is a fail, pass, deferred and exclusion.
The truth of the matter is that there are too many students who are being excluded from tertiary education. What that implies is that there has been a drain on the finances of the parents.
Mr Chairperson, while I am on the subject of tertiary education, I want to recognise the efforts that the Government has put into the public institutions such as the University of Zambia. When the hon. Minister comes to wind up debate, I would like her to educate me exactly where the principle of PPP has disappeared to with regard to this university.
Three years ago, I recall that I sat on the Committee on Education and we had several meetings with the UNZA dons who assured us that there was money and we were going to take advantage of the All Africa Games that this Government failed to host, to put up infrastructure for that institution to be buoyant enough to absorb students who stay within the precinct of the campus. This move failed alongside with the failure by the Government to host the All Africa Games. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there are any plans that have been designed to bridge that gap.
Mr Chairperson, still talking about tertiary education, I would like to say something that concerns me categorically. While I appreciate that the Government is bound to support public institutions at the tertiary level, I still think that since the Government supports institutions like the ones I mentioned that are run by religious organisations by giving them grants, it should also support those that have been opened by gallant Zambians. The list is quite elaborate.
In this country, we have the Lusaka Open University, the Zambia Adventist University, the Copperstone University, Northrise University, DMI St Eugene University which are there to solidify the basis upon which students who are attending these universities started school in the first place at the age of seven.
Sir, I would like to see a situation where this Government allocates small grants to help these institutions because, by my assumption, the parents whose children go to these universities are taxpayers. If they are taxpayers, then the children that they sire should benefit from the private tertiary universities.
I have always said the truth has no disguise. This Government has failed to build any university ever since 1966. There is no compromise or discussion about that. Instead, it has just been converting colleges into universities like Mulungushi University which was once upon a time called PEDESA or whatever it was called.
Mr Kapeya: President’s Citizenship College!
Mr Nkombo: The former Zambia Institute of Technology (ZIT) is now Copperbelt University and also COSETCO has been converted into something else. This Government has just been converting institutions as if it is in fashion. Now that it is a fact that this Government has failed to build universities, I would like it to consider giving small grants to private institutions that are helping to educate the upcoming generation. Borrowing the hon. Minister’s words, education is a cornerstone of any nation’s existence.
Mr Chairperson, as I wind up, I also want to discuss the issue of accommodation for teachers. This includes teachers at primary, secondary and basic schools. Not long ago, the hon. Minister was magnanimous and good enough to come to my constituency in Nega Nega, to officiate at a ceremony at a community school that is being funded by the People’s Action Forum under its programme called Capacity Building Learning Centre (CABLAC). We have a few institutions under the CABLAC Programme in this country. The hon. Minister saw the deplorable conditions of the houses for the teachers at that school. Since she is a good lady, and has what it takes to feel that there is a need here, she made an undertaking which, I think, translates to a government assurance. She said that this Government was going to build a school at that CABLAC.
Ms Siliya: A house!
Mr Nkombo: Sorry, I meant to say that the Government is going to build a house for teachers to share at that CABLAC. She saw the hut where this person who was imparting knowledge on our fellow Zambians was living. Mr Chairperson, knowing you and how humble you are, you would have cried to see …
Laughter
Mr Nkombo: … the way these teachers live.
Hon. Members: Order!
Mr Nkombo: I insist that, hon. Minister, since in the 2011 Budget, there is mention of a school being built, I would like to see that happen. I also want to ask the hon. Minister to decentralise the procurement of desks. We have always said that you should promote artisans. In Mazabuka, we have people who can make desks and so you should cascade the money from the ministry headquarters to the District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) office so that desks are ordered from Mazabuka. This will empower the carpenters in Mazabuka and this should be replicated countrywide.
Mr Chairperson, there is no reason we should be spending loads of money transporting desks from here to Shang’ombo when they have the best wood in the Western Province which can be used to manufacture desks.
Mr Chairperson, I hope that the hon. Minister, in her response, will take the issues I have raised seriously.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Chairperson, first of all, I would like to state that I wholeheartedly support the Vote.
Mr Chairperson, I have only two issues to discuss quickly. The first is that I appreciate the amount of money that is being pumped into infrastructure development but, at the same time, I am very worried in that when we use this community mode of construction, it leaves much to be desired. Like I have said before, buildings built under this mode lack quality control and this has an effect on the lifespan of any infrastructure or building.
Normally, I would be happy to have a building which is well-controlled and constructed and which can last fifty to sixty years and these schools and houses are supposed to last that long. However, looking at the way they are being constructed, I cannot see these buildings lasting more than five or seven years without being attended to.
Sir, construction has been decentralised and there are many ministries handling this. As a result, it is very difficult to control the quality of buildings. According to my experience of the use of community mode of construction, instead of using the coarse aggregates such as stones, because of lack of supervision by an expert, the community may use decayed rock. This rock is not good for the concrete as it will not be as strong as required. Briefly, what I am saying is that although we are building so many classrooms, I heard the hon. Minister mention the figure of 4,000 classrooms built since 2008. Come 2011, another K177 billion will be spent. Therefore, we must be careful with the way we put up these structures because they will not last.
Mr Chairperson, like I have said, I would be happy if an average building would last fifty to sixty years, but the way these buildings are being constructed, I cannot see them lasting that long.
The Ministry of Education should give special attention to the …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
(Debate adjourned)
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HOUSE RESUMED
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
(Progress reported)
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The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 12th November, 2010
WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION
MASASABI RESETTLEMENT SCHEME ELECTRIFICATION
158. Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) when the Government would electrify the Masasabi Resettlement Scheme in Itezhi-tezhi Parliamentary Constituency;
(b) how much money would be spent on the electrification project; and
(c) what had caused the delay in extending electricity supply to the resettlement scheme.
The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that part of Masasabi Resettlement Scheme in Itezhi-tezhi District was connected to power by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) in 2006. Works included construction of a 26 km 11 KV power-line from Itezhi-tezhi Boma to Masasabi Resettlement Scheme Centre and the following strategic buildings were connected to power:
(i) scheme office and staff house
(ii) veterinary staff house;
(iii) Masasabi Basic School;
(iv) Food Reserve Agency Storage Shed; and
(v) three shops belonging to private individuals.
Mr Speaker, the cost of electrifying the remaining area in Masasabi Resettlement Scheme is estimated at about K20 billion.
Mr Speaker, the Government has not delayed electrifying Masasabi Resettlement Scheme or, indeed, any rural area. As stated above, part of the scheme was electrified in 2006. I must restate that the Rural Electrification Programme is an on-going exercise that will continue until all rural areas in Zambia have access to electricity. The pace of electrification will depend on a number of factors, including:
(i) demand for this service from beneficiaries; and
(ii) availability of funds allocated to the authority by this House.
I thank you, Sir.