Debates- Friday, 19th November, 2010

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Friday, 19th November, 2010

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia will, on Thursday, 25th November, 2010, join the rest of the country and the international community in commemorating the Sixteen Days of Activism Against Gender Violence and the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women which will cover the period Thursday, 25th November to Friday, 10th December 2010.

The national theme for 2010 is ‘Defining Gender Based Violence: The Voice of the Civic, Traditional and Church Leaders’. The National Assembly has gone further and interpreted this theme as ‘Structures of Violence: Defining the Intersections of Culture and Violence against Women’.

To this effect, the National Assembly of Zambia will hold a sensitisation day on Thursday, 25th November 2010 to commemorate the Sixteen Days of Activism Against Gender Violence and the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women.

All hon. Members of Parliament are invited to attend this important sensitisation day and should be seated in the Auditorium by 0900 hours.

Thank you.



The Minister of Finance and National Planning and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 23rd November, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget and the following Heads will be considered:

  Head 90 – 98 Office of the President – Provinces.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 24th November, 2010, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply and continue looking at the following Heads:

  Heads 90 -98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

On Thursday, 25th November, 2010, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply and continue considering the following Heads:

  Heads 90 -98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 26th November, 2010, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. Then the House will consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2011 Budget and will consider any provincial Heads of Expenditure that may be outstanding. The House will also consider Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Thereafter, the House will consider any outstanding Business before it.

Mr Speaker, it my intention on this day, to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders to enable the House complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and, thereafter, enable the House adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.



The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, I rise to give this statement in accordance with your directives arising from a point of order raised by Mrs Mumbi Phiri, hon. Member of Parliament for Munali, that I, as hon. Minister of Home Affairs, should clarify the issue regarding what was going to happen to those voters who share the same national registration card number.

Mr Speaker, complaints by stakeholders such as the Foundation for Democratic Process (FODEP), that there is one ‘fake’ national registration card number which has been used to register over 12,000 voters are misplaced because there are no voters who share one National Registration Card Number.

Mr Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) commenced continuous voter registration on 21st June, 2010, using the mobile digital registration kits.

  The House may recall that prior to the 2006 Elections, the ECZ captured voters through the use of optical mark readable forms. The data on the forms was later converted into digital format in preparation for the putting together of the 2006 Register of Voters.

Mr Speaker, the 2010 continuous registration of voters meant that the commission needed to make available to the public the 2006 Register of Voters so as to facilitate the updating of the new mobile registration kits. During the process of transferring data from the 2006 Register of Voters to the new mobile registration kits, about 12,000 records could not be transferred because of having incomplete national registration card numbers.

Mr Speaker, the above cases were not as a result of wrongly issued national registration cards by the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship. They arose during the capture of the voter details from the application forms at the time of preparing the 2006 Register of Voters.

Sir, as a result of the above challenge, the affected records where highlighted by using the Code Number 111111/11/1 by the ECZ to allow the transfer of records to the new registration kits. With this code, the voters could still be identified by the voter identification number that appears on the voters’ card and corresponds to the number on the register of voters.

Mr Speaker, the affected records belong to genuinely registered voters and they will not be disenfranchised by this process. The district registration officers for all the seventy-two districts in the country were, in fact, informed of this and the affected voters are being traced to correct their national registration card numbers on the register of voters.

Sir, by the time the 2011 Provisional Register of Voters is published for inspection, the commission would have corrected all the records. I would like to assure the House and all citizens that the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship continues to undertake its duties diligently. The department has further strengthened its collaboration with the ECZ during the ongoing voter registration exercise to enable as many eligible citizens as possible obtain national registration cards for them to register as voters through the extended mobile issuance of national registration cards.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me yet another opportunity to brief the public, through this august House, regarding the fuel situation in the country. As members of the House may recall, during my last statement to this House on this matter, I had indicated on 1st October, 2010 that the Indeni Refinery shutdown would last for forty-five days with the start-up of the refinery expected to be on 15th November, 2010. I am glad to inform the nation that maintenance works on the refinery have been completed and the Indeni Refinery started operations on 17th November, 2010.

Sir, the nation may wish to note that the refinery will operate better after maintenance. The works carried out included catalyst regeneration, maintenance works on all units and the upgrading of the control and instrumentation system. A total of K38.4 billion was spent during this programme. The units that have been worked on include furnaces, heat exchangers, air coolers, the recycle gas compressor, vessels, columns, the water basin, cooling tower, the flare, rotating equipment, piping and utilities. The repair of these units will enhance refinery operational reliability and efficiency. The upgrading of the instrumentation and control systems involved the replacement of the old analogue control system with a digital control system that will make control of refinery operations easier and more efficient. The new system will also enhance refinery safety. The regenerated catalyst will also contribute to the efficient production of petrol.

Mr Speaker, I would, therefore, like to reassure the public, through this august House, that the security of supply of petroleum products is a matter Government has prioritised. At the time of the refinery resuming operations, the following were the fuel stock levels and days in the country:

 Diesel                     14 days 
Petrol        30 days 
 Kerosene         9 days 
 Jet A1 Fuel       15 days 
 Heavy Fuel Oil1        20 days

Mr Speaker, with this stock position plus what the refinery will be producing, the country’s fuel stock levels are very positive and assured.

Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the staff at the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, Indeni Refinery and Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipelines Limited for working so hard to ensure that this year’s refinery shutdown did not lead to disruption of fuel supply in the country. The co-operation of all Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) and fuel consumers is equally highly appreciated.

Mr Speaker, the above situation would not have been achieved without the tremendous support the Ministry of Energy and Water Development received from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his staff. It is the desire of the Government to never, again, let this country suffer fuel shortage as a result of planned maintenance at Indeni Refinery. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement which has been given by the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how much revenue Indeni lost as a result of the two-day delay.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the refinery should have started operations on the 15th of November, 2010. However, in the process of undertaking tests, its operations started on 17th November, 2010. This, of course, resulted in it not manufacturing products which should have been made available on the market. We shall compute to find out the cost of these products and, at an appropriate time, inform the House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Let me guide the Executive.

You should anticipate such obvious follow-up questions when you make your statement. You may undertake that the answer will follow later but I know, from experience, that it never does.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I commit to do so.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, yet again, I congratulate the hon. Minister on a job well done.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has made a commitment that never, again, will this country suffer fuel shortage as a result of the plant’s shutdown. This is a commendable commitment. Can he go ahead and make a commitment that this country will never, again, suffer fuel shortage as a result of bottlenecks that are often introduced in the procurement process?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that petroleum products are critical for driving social and economic development and will endeavour to ensure that procurement of this very important product is as seamless as possible to avoid any unnecessary disruptions to the nation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I commend the Government and the Ministry of Energy and Water Development for ensuring that there were no shortages during this shutdown. However, how long will it take for the country to get to normal levels of stocks that it carries after re-opening the refinery?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the stock that the Government kept was depleted during the closure of the refinery. The Government, following the resumption of operations at the refinery, will be producing products to supply the market and, at the same time, build up the stock. We anticipate that, within three months, the stock levels will be replenished to what they were before the refinery went on maintenance shut down.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether, during the forty-five days, employees were sent on forced leave and whether they lost benefits like leave days during this period. 

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I am proud to indicate that no employee was sent on forced leave as a result of the closure for maintenance. This is because operations in terms of sales were on and staff from the technical department was involved in the maintenance of the plant. No employee, therefore, was sent on forced leave.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, currently, on the market, there is a new type of diesel only known as sulphur-free diesel. May I learn from the hon. Minister who is producing this diesel, where it is coming from and if it is safe for engines of motor vehicles and other equipment?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, we confirm that there is what is termed as low sulphur diesel on the market. It was imported by the Government during the build up of the strategic stocks. We indicated, early this year or late last year, that the Government was striving to modernise the refinery so that it can start producing low sulphur diesel at the refinery as well. Low sulphur diesel has fewer particles of sulphur which is more efficient and receptive, especially to modern equipment that uses diesel.

Mr Speaker, it is the intention of the Government, in the months or years to come, to put up equipment at the refinery to produce this kind of diesel. At the moment, however, this diesel was imported by the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Kawandami (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the Government for maintaining the supply of fuel throughout the country but, at the same time, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what caused dry pumps in Kabwe over the weekend.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that because I am just hearing about the dry pumps in Kabwe. As I have indicated in my statement, we still have adequate stocks at the Ndola Fuel Terminal. So, I will investigate and establish why some pumps were dry in Kabwe.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, let me also join other hon. Members in commending the Government for keeping a continuous flow of petroleum products.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, after doing so well with Indeni, is the Government still going ahead to seek a partner or sell some shares since it owns 100 per cent?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is the policy of this Government not to nationalise assets. Therefore, in the interim, the Government has taken over the shares that were held by Total. Cabinet will soon make a decision about its position and the public will be informed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would also like to commend the hon. Minister and his team for managing to keep the flow of fuel in the country during the shut-down period.

Sir, regarding the sale of British Petroleum (BP), since the chain of supply goes right up to the OMCs, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he is doing about the decision by BP to sell its shares to Trafigura Company? This is with the view that Trafigura Company has been the favoured buying company, in the five African countries, to buy BP, despite how fraudulent and how it has not been transparent in its dealings. How, then, is it going to be allowed to come here and buy all the interest of BP without looking at how the interest of the local employees of BP is going to be taken care of? I hope he understands my question.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, indeed, BP Zambia as well as other BP interests in the other four African countries have been sold. I would like to plead that, next week, I will make a more comprehensive statement on this matter.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, since the efficiency of the equipment has improved and so, production levels are expected to go up, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the ministry and Indeni are doing in the area of improving the storage capacity of fuel.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to improving the storage of the refined petroleum products by increasing, among others, the storage capacities of the product throughout the country. To this effect, the Government is rehabilitating and repairing storage tanks at the Ndola Fuel Terminal. The Governments has, further, undertaken the rehabilitation and increase the storage capacities in Lusaka. It also plans to create new storage facilities in Mpika and other provincial centres so that there are more products stored throughout the country which should enable us supply products on the Zambian market in the event of any challenges at the refinery.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Sir, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, in the country side, where I come from, the uniform price of fuel does not exist due to the fact that there are no filling stations.


Mr Chisala: That being the case, how does the Government intend to assist us because 20 litres of petrol is going at K200,000.00?

A mobile phone rang.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, we are encouraging …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 I cannot follow the debate because a mobile phone is ringing. It must be seized right away.

 A House Messenger got the mobile phone and left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I was indicating that the Government is aware of such a situation in some parts of the country. Therefore, the Ministry of Energy and Water Development is working with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to encourage entrepreneurs, especially the ones from the rural areas, to approach the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) for them to be facilitated with the setting up of fuel dispensing facilities in rural areas. This was publicly advertised in the public media and some responses were received. Therefore, the CEEC and ERB are working on this so that those people in the rural areas who are interested in setting up filling stations can be facilitated.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.




172. Dr Machungwa (Luapula) asked the Minister of Works and Supply what progress had been made in the construction of houses for:

(a) the Second Republican President ; and

(b) the family of the Third Republican President.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that authority to commence the construction of ancillary structures, that is, three low cost staff houses, electric wire fence, drilling of boreholes and the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) power supply to the site was granted in February, 2010. However, the land on which these structures were to be erected was not accepted by the Second Republican President due to the small hectarage of the land acquired.

Arrangements are now underway to secure more hectares at the same area in Baobab area in order to proceed with the works. The construction of the main house will commence immediately after the land problem is resolved.

Sir, the construction of ancillary structures for the Third Republican President, similar to the ones I mentioned as regards the Second Republican President above, have commenced and are scheduled to be competed by the end of December, 2010.

However, the preparation of tender documents for the main house is currently underway and has reached an advanced stage. The award of contract for the construction of the main house is expected to be done within the first quarter of 2011.

The works are being done in the area behind Silverest School off the Great East Road.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to indicate to this House, when the negotiations to acquire adequate land to construct a house for the Second Republican President will be completed?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, as a ministry, our role is to build, but the issue of land falls under the portfolio of the Ministry of Lands. However, the land extension that was requested for is under title. Therefore, to secure some more of this land requires persuading the people who hold title to cede some of the land. The Ministry of Lands has made a lot of advances regarding the status of the same piece of land. When a decision is made, we will be advised and as soon as we are advised that land is available, we will proceed to build the house.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, what interventions is the Government putting in place to ensure that the beneficiaries who are the children for the Second and Third Republican Presidents benefit from the estates and not become destitute?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, this is a very complicated question. What happens to beneficiaries to an estate cannot be intervened by the State. The law is very clear. If a person dies intestated, there are provisions in the law on how to deal with that. If a person died and left a will, again, the administrators of the estate will know how to handle the situation. As far as the Government is concerned, it will do what is provided in the law when Presidents depart from this world.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister how many hectares of land will be required to construct the house for the Second Republican President?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we have no specific provision in the law for that. However, a precedent was set when we built the residence for the First President which was about forty hectares and that is the size of land that is being demanded for by the former President.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, through you, I would like to find out whether the Government has any intention of stopping constructing the house of the Second Republican President, considering that there are still issues of corruption surrounding him and that his wife has not yet been cleared by the courts of law.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, it is this kind of vindictiveness that will not take us anywhere.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: I do not think issues that are in courts of law have anything to do with people’s earned pensions and benefits.

Mrs Phiri: Question!

Mr Mulongoti: The hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu, being a lady, I would have expected her to have sympathy for a fellow lady as opposed to wanting to deprive her of whatever benefits she could be entitled to. If the matter is in court, the courts must be allowed to make a decision over it. However, as a ministry, the law mandates us to provide facilities for a president who has served. As far as we are concerned, the Second Republican President served the Republic of Zambia for ten years. Those of you who have issues with him, we will allow you to do it in your private time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, my question has already been answered.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, is it the Government’s intention to continue with this law of providing houses for retired presidents? Is it not going to be expensive, considering the number of presidents that are in this country?

Hon. Member: Including you!


Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that that question is coming from a president of a political party because he is a future beneficiary if all goes well


Mr Mulongoti: Nevertheless, this House passed a law on benefits to former presidents. If it is the wish of this House that it should remove those conditions, we will welcome a Private Member’s Bill which will not be supported by the people on your right …


Mr Mulongoti: … because we would like to accord them benefits that befit a former Head of State. The fact that they have retired does not mean that we should reduce them to a level where it will be embarrassing for this Republic. We are a country that respects leadership and I think we should continue to provide for the leadership as they retire.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply whether there is a predetermined cost for the construction of the house or whether there is a fixed sizeable structure that is supposed to be constructed for the Second Republican President?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, we set a standard at the time we constructed the house of the First Republican President. We are using this as a yardstick to build houses for all retired Presidents. However, it is not possible for us to have a predetermined sum because, as times change, material costs and other variables change. Therefore, we are as prudent as possible to ensure that the standards set are maintained.

I thank you, Sir.





The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, seeks to increase the threshold at which an importer requires to appoint a clearing agent for customs purposes. Currently, importers who bring in goods worth US$500 or more are required to use a clearing agent to complete a bill of entry for customs clearing purposes. These agents charge agent fees that may be too costly, particularly for small traders. The proposal now is to increase the threshold from US$500 to US$2,000.

Sir, this is intended to facilitate trade and reduce the cost of doing business, particularly for the small traders. The Bill is also aiming at streamlining customs procedures so that importers of goods can register their entries even before the goods arrive at the border.

   This is in line with the current trade facilitation, reducing congestion and the time spent in clearing and holding goods at ports of entry. Further the Bill proposes to revise customs and excise duty rates payable on certain goods as outlined in my Budget Speech which I presented to this august House on the 8th October, 2010.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is straightforward and I now commend it to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to highlight some of the findings and recommendations of your Committee regarding the amendment Bill.

Mr Speaker, regarding the increase of the duty on cold rolled coils, your Committee is concerned that while the Government believes that the measure will protect the local manufacturing industry, this may not be the case. Your Committee is aware of some of the companies which use these products as inputs in their production processes and as such duty on cold rolled coils would render local companies using these inputs uncompetitive as compared to imported finished products.

Mr Speaker, in addition, your Committee is concerned at the seemingly selective way that certain tax incentives have been given. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should endeavour to provide incentives that are targeted at a sector as opposed to taxes that seem to target the protection of individual companies.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to commend the Government for amending Section 34 that is intended to increase the threshold at which an individual requires the use of a clearing agent from US$500 to US$2,000. Under the current provisions of the law, any person importing goods worth US$500 or more is required to appoint a clearing agent for customs clearing purposes. This measure will simplify trade and reduce associated costs, particularly for cross border traders, who deal in small consignments.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to commend the Government for introducing 10 per cent duty on plastic bags as a way of mitigating the impact of environmental degradation. It is, however, your Committee’s considered view that this measure should have included other non-biodegradable products. In addition, it recommends that revenues from this duty should be used to promote the recycling of non-biodegradable products.

In conclusion, I wish to thank all the witnesses that appeared before your Committee for their valuable input. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the House for supporting the Bill. I have taken note of the observations made by the stakeholders as reflected in the report of the Committee and those raised by the Committee itself.

Mr Speaker, allow me to respond to some of them and I will begin with the measure to increase customs duty applicable on deformed bars from 0 per cent to 25 per cent. The concern by some stakeholders that this will cause producers to exploit consumers does not arise as it is rightly highlighted in the report of the Committee. If companies dealing with these products increase their prices, they will become uncompetitive as most of these products come from the Common Market for East and Southern Africa (COMESA) and Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries under the preferential rates where exports receive favourable incentives. Therefore, the 25 per cent duty rate will only be payable on exports coming from third countries outside the COMESA and SADC free trade areas.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of company targeted incentives, I wish to inform the House that it is not true that the increase is targeted at certain companies. It is a measure that will bring the taxation of these products in line with international practice. Rolled coils were levied at zero per cent because this country never had an industry that produced the items. Under the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) Act, some companies have now been granted licences to produce these products. This is an opportunity to develop this sector where value addition will take place inside the country.

Mr Speaker, the increase in customs duty will not affect products from the COMESA and SADC regions and, therefore, there should be no increase in prices on cold rolled steel from these regions.

Mr Speaker, let me now address the concerns on the taxation of plastics. I wish to thank the House for supporting this well-intended measure. However, I wish to allay the concerns of the stakeholders to extend this to water containers and by informing this House that containers of water are already captured in the tax net.

Excise duty on water is captured at ex-factory cost which includes the cost of the container. It is true that excise duty on plastics will be passed on to the consumers. This is the target of this tax so that consumers can develop the habit of re-using plastic bags and containers due to increased costs and this will also reduce the number of plastics being dispensed.

In concluding my debate, allow me to address the issue of entry of goods prior to importation. The Government has proposed that entry of goods must be made before the goods arrive at the border. The importer will have an opportunity to verify that the information declared to the customs prior to the arrival of the goods match the information on the document accompanying the goods. Once this is done, the importer can proceed to finalise the clearance. The penalty will only arise when the importer’s earlier declaration is different from the documents accompanying the goods and the importer, thereby deliberately ignoring to amend the earlier declaration.

Mr Speaker, once again, I wish to thank the House for the support.

I thank you, Sir,

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th November, 2010.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. The Bill before this House is principally seeking to align the Value Added Tax (VAT) Act to the current structural changes that are taking place at the Zambian Revenue Authority (ZRA).

Sir, specifically, the Bill also seeks to rename the VAT Division as the Domestic Taxes Division. It also provides for renaming the Commissioner VAT as Commissioner Domestic Taxes. This is in line with the Modernisation Programme at the ZRA. In addition, the Bill seeks to revise the definition of ‘commercial property’ so as to enhance the same for VAT purposes and update the definition of ‘tribunal’ under the Act. This Bill is straightforward and I commend it to the House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker your Committee considered the Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2010. Your Committee wishes to support the Bill because it is straightforward and non-contentious. In doing so, your Committee, however, observes that the VAT charged on insurance premiums will discourage people from insuring their properties. It is common knowledge that the culture of insuring properties in Zambia is poor and, as such, this measure will discourage people even more.

Your Committee is of the view that the Government’s position should be to encourage people to insure their property. In this regard, your Committee recommends that this proposal be reconsidered because it is retrogressive.

I wish to conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill.

I thank you.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Bill on the Floor. First of all, I must indicate that I am a hon. Member of the Committee on Estimates. In supporting this Bill, I want to bring out issues that really concern the people who will be affected by the measure on the VAT on insurance of properties. Like the Chairperson of your Committee has indicated, the statistics on how this measure is going to benefit the Treasury and how it is going to disadvantage the insurance sector did not come out very clearly.

I think what is very important and must be very clear is that when measures are introduced, there must be a cost benefit analysis that must be undertaken to show proof of how the said measure is going to benefit, first of all, the insurance sector and the revenue of the Government. In the absence of such information, it becomes extremely difficult to to support such a measure. I, therefore, wish the hon. Minister can reconsider in future amendments, to undertake such an analysis.

I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the House for the support.

I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th November, 2010.

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. The Bill before this House is principally seeking to give tax relief on personal incomes. It also seeks to introduce a graduated tax system in the telecommunications sector. Specifically, the Bill proposes to increase the threshold of exempt income on Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) to K1,000,000 from K800,000 per month and adjust the income bands accordingly so as to give more tax relief to workers, particularly those in the lower income brackets.

In addition, the Bill increases tax credit for differently abled persons from K1.29 million to K3 million per annum. This measure is intended to provide more tax relief to persons who are differently abled and offset costs such as purchase of assistive devises and other personal costs.

Sir, the Bill also proposes to increase the exempt portion of income received at the end of an employment contract from K25 million to K35 million. This measure is in line with the Government’s commitment to providing more relief to our retirees after serving our nation diligently.

Mr Speaker, in order to raise enough resources from infrastructure and human development, in line with the focus of the 2011 Budget, the Bill seeks to introduce a higher tax rate of 40 per cent for profits above K215 million in the telecommunications sector. This Bill is also straightforward and I now wish to commend it to the House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, your Committee notes the intentions of the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2010. However, your Committee observes that the proposal to discontinue the deduction of interest expenses on mortgages for individuals will discourage ordinary Zambians from accessing credit for purposes of acquiring houses. Your Committee is aware that only a small population of Zambians has been able to access mortgages. This is largely because the lending rates have been prohibitive.

Your Committee is also aware that the country has a serious deficit of housing units and desperately needs to attract investment in this area. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government revisits its position on this matter.

Mr Speaker, may I conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider this Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, I will be extremely brief and I want to thank the Chairperson of your Committee, which I am member to, for his very eloquent presentation of our report. There are a few issues that I would like refer to and the first one is the matter that the Chairperson of your Committee referred to, but I want to take it from the angle of thriftiness. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is on record as having complained about the little portion of the population that is banked. Very few people are banked in this country and the reasons are many. Some of them hinge on lack of incentives to bank.

   This deduction of interest on mortgage was being used by some banks as an incentive to encourage people to bank not only because they would have access to mortgages, but also that the interest paid on the mortgages will be tax deductible. Now, the hon. Minister is taking away the little incentive that is provided for Zambians to encourage them to get into thrift or get into the banking sector.

Beyond that, the argument that was presented by some of the people who appeared before your Committee was that it will only benefit a few people, companies and those employed in the banking sector and companies. It is a very weak argument because whatever the case, if people are given an incentive to go into construction of houses whether they are owner-occupier houses or houses that are eventually leased out on the open market, we are increasing on the housing stock in the country.

Not too long ago, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing was lamenting here, in this House, the huge shortage of housing stocks. Two million houses is the shortage of housing stock in Zambia and we are required to build more than 200,000 houses per year for the next twenty years for us to catch up.

It will, therefore, be prudent for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his colleagues to come up with measures that encourage people to borrow for the sake of building and this is not too much to ask. It also relates, to some extent, with the question that was raised by my colleague in his earlier debate.

On the quantum, the hon. Minister did not indicate to us what kind of revenue he is looking at by taking away this little incentive. What total benefit is it to the economy compared to the benefit of Zambia if people are to get incentives to bank or borrow mortgages to build? In his response, I hope the hon. Minister will indicate this figure so that we see that, ultimately, his policy measures have an incremental effect on the economy of Zambia because our argument and that presented by many witnesses to your Committee were that this move is retrogressive.

Secondly, I would like to refer to the matter concerning the extension of taxation of income for information and communications technologies (ICT) providers. This is a very interesting formula that the hon. Minister is coming up with where his taxing is based on thresholds that any company that earns more than K250 million must be taxed at a higher rate of 40 per cent. This is applying taxation policy in the same manner that he is taxing personal earnings, PAYE. However, the question that begs an answer is: Why is it only being applied to the ICT sector? Why is this threshold taxation system not being applied to other sectors such as mining? Why only the ICT sector? The ICT sector, as many people argued, is also in its infancy in the same way that the mining sector is said to be in its infancy. If this industry will accept to be taxed in this fashion, why should the other industries and sectors also not be subjected to similar taxation policy? I hope the hon. Minister will clarify that when he comes to respond.

The third matter is one that is very close to my heart and I have debated this every year. This is the issue of disability credit. In as much as we welcome the increase, I want to point out to the hon. Minister that the increase is too small compared to the cost of disability in this country. The tax credit that has been given here only comes to K250,000 per month as a tax credit. The actual benefit to the disabled is not K250,000 per month, it is much lower. The hon. Minister will be aware that the cost of aids for disabled people is extremely phenomenal because they are very expensive. We would have wanted to see the hon. Minister increase it in this Budget to, at least, K6 million. Then we would have been in keeping with the theme of his Budget, “A People’s Budget from the People’s Government”.

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling. Listening to the hon. Member’s debate, he appears to be contradicting this report when, in fact, he is a member of that Committee. Is he in order to debate in that manner?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Justice says that the hon. Member for Kabwata who is a member of my Committee is debating counter to the contents of my Committee’s report. The hon. Deputy Minister has not cited the examples where the hon. member is debating contrary to the recommendations of the Committee. However, if that is the case, the hon. Member for Kabwata would resume his debate, but in support of the report.

May he continue.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I thank you very much for your guidance. As I stated before, we have a tragedy of having people in the Executive …

Mr Speaker: Order!

I have ruled, just move on.

Mr Lubinda: … I want to demonstrate that whoever read your report will know that I am debating in support of your Committee’s report.

Mr Hamududu: Absolutely!

Mr Lubinda: And let me illustrate. At page 4 of your report, item (iii), the report states as follows:

 “Increase the Disability Tax Credit

“Various witnesses appreciated the proposal to increase the tax credit from K1,920,000 to K3,000,000 per annum. It was, however, argued that the disability costs are very high and, as such, the increase would not provide the intended relief.”

Anyone who had time to scan through this document would have realised that I am debating in support of your Committee and I will continue to do so.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I want to indicate, further, that the cost of being disabled in this country is extremely high and this year, given the theme of this Budget, ‘A People’s Budget from A People’s Government”, should have provided the very best opportunity for this Government to give tax credit at higher rates than the K3,000,000. Then we would have, at least, been able to go out to our constituencies and say we are seeing some meaning in the theme of this Budget because which other people will you refer to if you do not refer to the weakest of the weak and, in this particular case, disabled people are amongst the weakest of the weak.

Mr Speaker, last year, when I was debating to increase this tax credit, if you recall, I actually moved an amendment and the hon. Minister graciously agreed to that amendment and all of us were very happy about it. We put more money in the pockets of the disabled people. What I said then was that with the culture of nchekelako in this country, even for the disabled people to be lifted onto a taxi, they have to pay.

  For them to jump on a bus, they have to pay the one who lifts them and lifts their wheel chair. Why is the Government giving them little tax credit? Members of the Executive are exclaiming that I am debating contrary to your Committee’s report.


Mr Lubinda: This is a tragedy. I want to appeal to the hon. Minister though you have already added your figures for this year’s budget, but what I am saying may resound in you next year, if you will be there...


Mr Lubinda: ... to kindly increase the credit to the disabled people.

Mr Chairperson, let me reiterate though I have stated this before, that Government must not consider people who are differently abled as only clients of the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, but as part of our society. Every ministry, especially the ministry responsible for the economy, must consider them as such. Remember also that each one of us gathered in this House has the potential to be a disabled person. Time will come when we will remember that we once sat in this House and we will say, “Woe upon us for not increasing the tax credit then when we had the opportunity?” The time is now.

When I say that each one of us has the potential to become disabled, I want to remind ourselves here that there was one very hardworking hon. Minister who today is no longer here, not because of his desire, but because of nature. As we put resources at the disposal of our differently-abled brothers and sisters, we must be aware of the fact that what we are doing, in fact, is for ourselves. We cannot have an economy which is giving tax credits to mining companies and tax holidays to foreigners and yet our own brothers and sisters are being made to wallow in poverty.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That is not fair. I will now leave the issue of the disabled people aside. I am sure that they are hearing and they know that the hon. Minister next year, if he will be there, will return with another theme, but will carry on with giving tax credit to disabled people.

Another matter, Sir, in your Committee’s report which I find very crucial is the issue of the requirement for audited accounts for tax purposes. It is appreciated that a lot of small-scale enterprises operate below the threshold that would warrant expenditure associated with auditing accounts. However, we ought to be very careful with the way we do things. I like to appeal to the hon. Minister to think through this issue I am looking at very well. To keep it open and say that there is no need any more for all companies to have audited accounts for tax purposes, I think is more like opening a pandora’s box.

What I propose, Sir, which your Committee debated at length, is the possibility for, again, putting in place thresholds for those that qualify to provide audited accounts and those that do not. Is it not possible for a business that is operating within a turnover of up to a certain amount to be exempted from providing audited accounts? However, those operating above that threshold must continue to be subjected to presenting audited accounts to the tax officer. The reason we need audited accounts is for the purposes of ensuring that they operate on the basis of international standards. If an auditor presents false audited reports, that auditor will be at a risk of being deregistered. Auditors work not only on behalf of the company that has hired them to do the audit, but also on behalf of society in general. If all companies are exempted from providing audited accounts, then the Government ought to be careful when coming up with a way forward because with such a situation obtaining it cannot be able to penalise any company for producing fictitious accounts. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to reflect upon this matter carefully and if I have misunderstood it, then we are available to listen to him. I would, like when the hon. Minister winds up debate, to clarify what he means and how what will are discussing will operate to ensure that we are not going to allow people to come up with very fictitious accounts and, therefore, evade tax.

Ms Lundwe: Wind up.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, my good friend, the hon. Minister of Lands, is asking me to wind up but I can see the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning paying attention to what I am saying and I think, for now, I am more concerned with him. I will be concerned with what affects the Minister of Lands later on. So, hon. Minister of Finance of National Planning, I plead with you, through you, Mr Speaker...


Mr Lubinda: ... to please clarify how what we are discussing will operate and make sure that we tighten rather than loosen the system. As much as we want to increase the tax net as wide as possible, we should not weaken it to an extent where people will be coming to us with fictitious figures because that way we shall be allowing the big boys to run away with our money.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the Committee and the hon. Members who have debated the Bill.

Let me just take a few moments to reflect on some of the issues that have been highlighted in the debate. On the issue of interest on mortgages, the Government is being accused of taking away from the industry. Apart from what I said to justify this move, let me also say that interest expenses are only one of the determinants for an individual to decide to make an investment. In fact, the most important determinant is the income level of the person because even if the interest is low and the person has no income, that person cannot be able to save and borrow money. So income is more paramount.

Now I want to reflect on what has been going in our economy in the past few years. Due to the good policies of this Government, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: ... investments have been flowing into this economy. This year alone, more than US$2 billion has come through into this country through investments. These investments have created jobs, incomes and prosperity which is there for everyone to see. This is why there are a lot of new housing units in the country at present. Just half a kilometre away from Parliament Buildings here, there is a wonderful shopping facility that has just come up. There are also new houses being constructed.

The conclusion, out of this, Mr Speaker, is that the policies of this Government will focus on, not just on the interest on the mortgages, but more even on the broader level of enhancing incomes. Those policies are working. This is why the real estate business is expanding. So, it is not true to make a sweeping statement that because we have withdrawn certain incentives, therefore, all the things are going to crush. The very opposite is happening.

In contrast to this, Mr Speaker, the policies of certain parties which discourage investments are always threatening investors.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: When an industry has difficulties like the way Luanshya Copper Mine had last year, instead of speaking to investors, the policies of certain parties would be to send party cadres to go and demonstrate on the streets …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Musokotwane: ... because they do not understand anything. Their policy is to just send party cadres on the streets as if demonstrations are going to bring prosperity to this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the policy of this Government of encouraging investment and creating more incomes is working unlike the policy of creating anarchy when there are economic problems.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: PF!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, there was a question about the amount of money to be earned from the interests and mortgages. The answer to that question is K23.5 billion while the expected income from insurance is K38 billion.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by saying that the policies of this Government are straight forward such that they are encouraging the economy to continue to grow very fast so that we give hope to our people by giving them jobs and wealth unlike those who seek to do the opposite.

Hon. Opposition Members: Of what?

Dr Musokotwane: They scare away investors by chasing and insulting them. The only result that they will bring to this country is the real tragedy that the hon. Member spoke about.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Twalemona ati niba professional kanshi nakalya.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 24th November, 2010.




[THE CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]


Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE ROAD TRAFFIC (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Clause 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Members are aware that we are off air. Therefore, it is not easy for those who are outside to get what is going on in the House.

I thank you.

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment.

The Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 2010

Third Readings on Wednesday, 24th November, 2010.




(Debate resumed)

VOTE 44 – (Ministry of Labour and Social Security – K25,305, 952, 284)

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, before I call on the Minister of Labour and Social Security, I just want to remind you to look at the order paper and the Heads that we are to conclude today if we are to be in time to deal with provinces next week. You will notice that we have a lot of work to do and consequently, will have to minimise on the number of people to debate on each head. That way, we will make progress this morning.

I now call upon the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security to make his policy debate.

I thank you.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Labour): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this privilege to present my ministry’s policy statement to this august House in support of my ministry’s 2011 Budget.

Sir, allow me to thank all hon. Members of Parliament who positively debated in support of my ministry last year. The role of my ministry in contributing to the attainment of the Vision 2030 cannot be overemphasized. As our nation seeks to become a middle income nation by 2030, we cannot afford to overlook the importance of employment and labour matters which remain at the centre of our economy and our people. This, therefore, calls for concerted efforts to step up our campaign for decent work and improvement of labour productivity.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s responsibility is to manage the enforcement of labour legislation and to put in place policies and strategies related to issues of employment and labour, social security, occupational safety and health services and productivity development in the country.

Sir, in the year under review, my ministry accomplished the following:

(i) revised and launched the Zambia Decent Work Country Programme (Z-DWCP) with our stakeholders;

(ii) the labour force survey report was finalised and it awaits dissemination to the public;

(iii) held tripartite consultative labour council meetings and technical committees for review of labour laws;

(iv) continued to hold meetings of the Employment and Labour Sector Advisory Group (EL-SAG); and

(v) effectively managed the industrial relations situation in the country.

There are a number of policy issues that my ministry wishes to focus on as we get into 2011, which include the following:

(i) provision of labour market information to all labour market players;

(ii) conduct the 2011 labour force survey;

(iii) review the current employment policy and develop another one;

(iv) enhance social dialogue and enforcement of labour laws;

(v) intensify programmes on elimination of child labour and human trafficking; and

(vi) enhancement of labour productivity.

Mr Chairperson, with the resources allocated to us in the 2011 Budget, my ministry proposes to allocate them as follows.

Sir, my ministry has allocated a total sum of K4.2 billion towards labour administration and labour market management. The funds will be used to carryout decent work programmes, which include labour inspections and social dialogue, industrial relations management, sensitisation programmes on labour laws and awareness of workers rights, child labour control and management and labour migration management.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry shall continue to intensify productivity promotion programmes. In this regard, a total sum of K2.6 billion has been allocated to the Department of National Productivity Development.

In order to effectively inspect pressure vessels, lifting machinery and investigate occupational diseases and accidents, a total sum of K2.7 billion has been allocated to the Department of Occupational Safety and Health Services.

Sir, to carryout decent work, promotion by undertaking activities such as labour market surveys, monitoring and evaluation of ministerial programmes, gender and employment and private sector development programmes, my ministry has allocated a total sum of K7.2 billion to the planning and research unit.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.{mospagebreak}


Mr Liato: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was just about to wind up my ministry’s policy statement.

I was saying that in order to achieve effective delivery of social security services, my ministry has allocated a total sum of K2.1 billion to carryout decent work promotions activities under the Social Security Department, which comprises extension of social security coverage to the informal sector as well as work towards reforming the current system, promotion of social security public awareness and social security reforms.

As I wind up, I wish to reiterate that my ministry will remain committed to the facilitation of the development of an efficient and effective labour market in order to enhance productivity and reduce poverty in our economy. In this regard, I expect strong support from hon. Members of this august House as we commence debate on my ministry’s 2011 Budget.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. First and foremost, I am in support of this Vote and I will be very brief.

Mr Chairperson, let me start by commenting on the institutions which are under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

Mr Chairperson, in 2008, I had raised a question on the performance of the Zambian Lotto. You will recall that the money that was put in that company came from the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). It invested billions of kwacha, but the company has not been performing very well. As a result, members’ as well as employees’ contributions went to waste. You will recall that the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, on the Floor of this House, informed us that NAPSA intended to pull out from the Zambian Lotto in order to save members’ as well as employers’ contributions. Would the hon. Minister explain why this has not been the case even after giving that statement.

Mr Chairperson, secondly, I would like to talk about NAPSA contributions from Government employees, who are civil servants. You will find that after members have made their contributions, the Government is in the fore front of not remitting them. These figures are in billions and, as such, the failure by the Government to remit these contributions is affecting the operations of NAPSA. Therefore, I would urge the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to ensure that Government ministries remit members’ as well as employers’ contributions.

Sir, the Government has been advised that employees of companies such as Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Mines be registered with NAPSA. To date, ten years down the line, these employees are not registered with NAPSA, and yet it is a Government pension scheme to which all employees have to be members. I, therefore, suggest that we come up with a law which will compel these two companies to register their members with NAPSA.

Sir, the money which has been allocated to the Ministry of Labour and Social Security is very little. We expected more money to have been allocated to this ministry, especially to the labour inspectors. I am saying so because there are a lot of problems in this country. The investors who have come to this country are not following the labour laws and we expect this department to be given more money so that its officers are enabled to inspect a lot of work places.

Mr Chairperson, for example, recently, we had a fatality at Manda Hill Shopping Centre where constructions are going on. We expected that this construction site would have been inspected even before the hon. Minister went there because he only did so when that person died, which is wrong. That is why we are saying that labour inspectors should be empowered so that they can be able to move around and see to it that our employees are working in safe places. When you look at the budget, there is a provision for occupational diseases and inspection which has been allocated a sum of only K42 million. To me, that is not enough.

Sir, the reason we are here as hon. Member of Parliament is to make laws and the Executive is there to enforce them. I recall that, in 2007, the Government brought an amendment to the Industrial and Labour Relations Act, Cap. 269. At that time, if I recall very well, there was an allegation that the Government was targeting certain individuals in the union, especially the Secretary General for Zambia Union of Financial Institutions and Allied Workers (ZUFIAW) then. We stood up on the Floor of the House and supported the amendment that inhibited all the trade unionists who had retired from continuing to serve in the union. When that law was passed in this Parliament, the Government did not implement it. To date, those trade unionists are still serving in the union.

Sir, why do we bring laws that we do not implement? For example, the Market and Bus Station Act has not been implemented as well. I am of the view that since, at that time the president for ZUFIAW was being targeted, the Government realised that, at the congress, there were too many people who would have been affected. So, because of the Government’s stooges, this law was not implemented. We hope that the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security will look at that issue very seriously.

Sir, the congress is going for elections in December. Actually, it was supposed to have been in October, but the dates had to be changed. There are reports that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security is interfering in the elections at the congress. It wants stooges to be at the congress. If you read The Post newspaper of Tuesday, 16th November, 2010, the General Secretary for Mineworkers Union of Zambia (MUZ) complained that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security was interfering in the elections of the congress. We expect the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to be a referee between the employers and unions even in elections. Why should we allow stooges in the union? That must come to an end. When our colleague was president of the Energy Union and vice-President at Zambia Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU), he was very good at that time. However, since he became hon. Minister, everything has changed. I do not know what has come over him. There is a need …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is it procedural?

Mr Lubinda: It is very procedural, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, let me firstly apologise for disturbing the Chairperson for Labour in the Patriotic Front (PF), who is debating so eloquently. Is the Chief Whip in order to allow proceedings of this House to continue when we do not have a quorum? I seek your very serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order requires us, therefore, to hold a count and see whether that is true. I suspend business for four minutes.

Business was suspended from 1114 hours until 1118 hours.


The Deputy Chairperson: We have made the requirement of a quorum and I will ask the hon. Member who was debating to continue.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, we have put in place laws that we do not implement. For instance, the quorum was not met and the hon. Member for Kabwata had to raise a point of order to remind …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Can you just continue with your debate.


Mr D. Mwila: You have heard.

Mr Chairperson, the Government must stop using the Office of the Labour Commissioner to victimise some trade unionists. The Government must act as referee between employer and union. Even during elections at the Congress, the Government must keep away from the elections because employees do not want to continue with stooges. They want to be represented by effective leaders. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, under social dialogue, K220 million has been allocated. You will recall that in 2003, our Deputy Speaker, Hon Nalumango, who was Minister of Labour and Social Security, issued a statutory instrument to review the minimum wage.

On the Floor of this House, we have raised the question of the review of the minimum wage. The hon. Minister has been making promises. If you recall, he had said that a review would be made by the end of this year. Since issuing the statutory instrument seven years ago, nothing has been done. What is the Government doing?

Mr Chairperson, the minimum wage of K268,000 which workers who do not belong to any union get is too little. It is no wonder that all companies run by the Chinese are paying this amount. It does not matter what job one is doing, they will be paid the minimum wage. You cannot even argue because they will tell you that they are within the law. The first perpetrator is Csllum Mine which only decided to review the salaries for their workers and increase them to K450,000 after the recent shooting incident.

Mr Chairperson, if you go to Chambishi Mines owned by Non-Ferrous Company-Africa (NFCA) or Luanshya Mines, you will find that the Chinese pay the lowest salaries. Why is it like this? There is a need for the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to review this because it is being used as a guide. This is the excuse they are using.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, this serves as a reminder. I know that time has run out for this Government because they are going next year, but we still want to remind them to review this minimum wage? Employees are anxiously waiting. Chinese investors are paying low salaries because of this law. It is the Government we are blaming here. Once they review this, even investors will change the way they pay workers.

Lastly, I would like to talk about expatriates. We have advised that the Ministry of Home Affairs is not competent to handle expatriates. They are supposed to be handled by the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. This ministry is supposed to be in-charge of work permits. I hope that the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security is listening to what I am saying. There are too many expatriates at Konkola Copper Mines, Chambishi Mines NFCA and Luanshya Mines. There is a need for this Government to look at this matter seriously so that jobs which can be done by Zambians are given to the Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: They should not be given to the Chinese or the Indians. There are too many Indians on the Copperbelt. Chingola is like Bombay.

Hon. Opposition Member: Serious?

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, at Chambishi Mines NFCA, even bricklayers and plumbers are expatriates. Can the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security take it upon himself to chair this committee so that he is able to know who comes into the country? No wonder people are saying that prisoners are being brought into the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, as a country, we will not allow this.

Mr Mubika: Who are you?

Mr D. Mwila: I am a specialist in this matter, Mubika Mubika. You are just a farmer. 

Hon. MMD Member: Aah!

Mr D. Mwila: This is our advice to our colleagues. We know that they are going and the pact is coming. However, please, between now and June, can they look at these issues. Hon. Minister, you are a very good friend of mine and I hope that you will have a change of heart.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, I want to start by encouraging the hon. Minister ‘in Labour’ …


Mr Shakafuswa: … that we are very proud of him.

Mr Chairperson, in this House, we have living examples that when you work hard, labour pays. In the Backbench, we have Godfrey Bwalya Mwamba (GBM), who is a living testimony of hard work. In the Frontbench, we have the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security who is also a living testimony of good work. I am going to be very brief so that I give other hon. Members a chance to debate.

Sir, if you look at what has built a lot of countries or Lusaka, it is the pension’s money. If you look at the history of Lusaka, you will discover that most of the investments were made out of pension’s money.

Today, I will give an example of projects which are in Zambia. You would be surprised to find that American pensioners are actually looking for investments and have actually invested in estates of this country.

Sir, I would like to say that it is very important for a country to ensure that pension money is restricted within the country so that it can be pumped into the country and be a driver for economic growth. We have a situation where we have allowed pension money to be hauled abroad. The effect of that is that the money which is generated from our country is helping building other countries because that money is not invested here, but in other countries. This means that money is creating gross domestic products of those countries. We should, therefore, make a deliberate policy to ensure that the money remains in this country for investment.

The other point that I would like to talk about is pension. Today, there are companies which are tying pension to a timeframe. For example, Shoprite has tied its workers to a timeframe of fourteen years. If a worker does not work for Shoprite for fourteen years, they lose their pension. Therefore, if someone leaves Shoprite after working for thirteen years, you do not get your pension but, in the meantime, you are contributing to your pension. Hon. Minister, I do not think those are the rules which apply to other pensions. I think this is discriminatory and has to be looked into. I know that your office is aware of that, but action needs to be taken so that before, the people you are representing, as Hon. D. Mwila said, develop a bald head can have a relief.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I should not go into details because I know that my hon. Friend is about to invite me for lunch. Let me stop here so that I give him time to prepare for lunch.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. For the first time, there is a little bit of an increase for the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

Sir, I have often said that this ministry is treated like a small ministry, and yet it is a very critical ministry. It is a very important ministry such that if labour matters are handled properly, there can be stability and the conditions of service for workers would be better.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister that since he has been given a bit of money, he should re-open the offices which were closed.

Sir, in Kalomo, there is a labour office which was closed. Therefore, you want people to travel all the way from Choma to Kalomo to do the inspections. The situation is so bad that nobody is able to sort out labour matters and this is left either to the District Commissioner (DC) or the hon. Member of Parliament. There is no reason why you cannot re-open that office. When the hon. Minister of Works and Supply was told that there were dirty offices, he said that was a ministerial problem. You should use a bit money to go and paint that office. Since it is on the road side, it gives a picture of Kalomo which is developing slowly with nice buildings coming up except for the one for the ministry of \labour and Social Security.

The reason why I want you to open this office is that besides what you saw in Choma, there are eight farmers who came from Zimbabwe and each farmer has employed about 120 farm workers. Therefore, nearly a thousand workers have been employed, but there are so many instructions from these commercial farmers.

By regulation, a minimum wage is hardly known by some farmers. Therefore, if these regulations could be explained to them, they will be able to comply and they will give the correct wage to their workers. I am particularly interested in knowing whether the labour inspectors could explain and help these farm workers understand the labour laws.

Sir, workers move from one farm to the other and from one employer to the other without proper records. Therefore, it becomes unclear for them to know how much they are supposed to be paid as they keep on moving from one farm to the other and there is  no one to explain to them how much they are supposed to get. In the process, they run away with anything. Therefore, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security should come in and explain labour regulations to these workers.

Sir, the ministry also needs to explain further what happens to people who are employed by relatives. We have been talking about agriculture being the biggest employer. The ministry should do something to help these workers understand labour laws. Lately, we have had problems whereby some people have been working for their uncles for twenty years without getting their salaries. So, instead, they would come up with a system of quantifying bags of maize and herds of cattle. Please, the ministry should come in and help out because if there are no guidelines as regards labour laws, we will continue having problems. It is for this reason that this ministry needs more. I know the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is listening and, perhaps, he will consider giving this ministry more money so that you can have your offices re-opened.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.{mospagebreak}

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the Vote, I want to briefly comment on the plight of the Zambian workers.

Mr Chairperson, the Zambian workers are exploited by employers. This House has enacted a lot of labour laws which most of these employers fraudulently disregard with impunity and get away with it.

Sir, a case in hand is that of casualisation. The law is very clear on this one. If someone has been employed for six months, they should be deemed to be on permanent employment. What is happening now is that on the advice of the labour office, most of these employers are advised to employ people only for six months and then lay them off. If they want to go back to work, they have to sign the contract again and this is allowed by the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.            

Mr Chairperson, as you may be aware the people are desperate for employment. They are exploited and knowing that they are exploited, they work for six months and, at the end of the day, they go away with nothing. These people have no accumulating benefits in terms of gratuity or pension.

Mr Chairperson, the second issue I want to talk about is on the wages that Zambian workers receive, especially those employed by foreigners such as the Chinese and shopping malls. If you go round to check, you will find that most of the wages are slave wages.

In addition, people work under terrible slavery conditions. The Constitution is very clear on this. It prohibits slavery or servitude. We have a hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security who is a former trade unionist who should be more sympathetic towards the cause of the workers. He was a trade unionist and he spoke for his colleagues because he believed that they were also human beings. Now that he is in the seat of authority, he is expected to intervene on behalf of his people.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear! Tell him!

Mrs Mwamba: Sir, I would also like to talk about the abuse of the Zambian people. Lately, we have read not only in the newspapers, but have also seen on television and have heard from some of the representatives of the people how Zambians are being abused by foreigners calling themselves employers.

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

Mrs Mwamba: Where is our Government? Where is the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security?

Mr Lubinda: Where is the people’s Government?

Mrs Mwamba: Where is the loyalty of the Ministry of Labour and Social Security?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, in ending my debate, I just want to remind us that we will teach the people who come to Zambia in the name of investors how to treat us and the Zambian workers.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to contribute very briefly to this very important Vote for the Ministry of Labour and Social Security on the Floor of the House.

I would like to commend the Government and the Ministry of Labour and Social Security for the work they are doing in trying to fight for the workers’ rights under a difficult economic environment and the economic crisis around the world which has not spared Zambia. Even under these conditions we have managed to continue to plod on.

In my contribution, I note that there is some money in the Yellow Book that has been provided for which is K220.9 under the Department of Labour for Social Dialogue. This money is for social dialogue with the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council. I hope that the hon. Minister will quickly convene the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council so that it can address issues, including those that have been mentioned by some of my colleagues such as that of minimum wage. I think it is long overdue.

The other issue that is important within the areas of social dialogue is that the ministry, through the Department of Labour, has very strong relations with the Zambia Federation of Employers (ZFE). Lately, I have noted that some of the new comers to the Zambian working environment, investment or industrial establishment have gotten themselves into a number of issues such as the recent events at Collum Coal Mine. What is the ZFE doing to try and sensitise the workers of this country? In the social dialogue, there is a tripartite situation. There are employers represented by the ZFE and of course the workers through the trade unions and the middle person who is the arbiter, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, to give direction. What is ZFE doing to bring their members on board so that they know some of the laws of Zambia? Of course, this does not mean that the ministry does not do anything about it. However, is the ministry encouraging the social partners to be working very closely with their members? This is extremely important and this is why I think that the question of social dialogue through the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council is important. Therefore, I would to urge the hon. Minister to quickly convene that council so that some of these issues could be addressed.

Another important issue that I would like to talk about is that of productivity in the country. As Zambia, we have to move forward and be competitive on the international arena. The only way we can compete effectively is if our products are competitive and if the work that we are able to perform in our organisations is at a level that will meet international standards. This is why the National Productivity Development Department was set up. We do not hear much of what is happening in that department. Perhaps the hon. Minster can say a little more because this is important. I see that half a billion Kwacha has been allocated to the National Productivity Centre. It is important that this unit is revamped so that it can contribute a little more.

Employers and workers must be sensitised more if productivity has to increase. For example, employers must advocate for production performance incentives in companies. I would like to see a situation where this department is conducting workshops calling employers small and large to try and move forward and improve their productivity. Of course, when workers are more productive, they should be paid a little more.

Related to that is the issue of the Occupation Assessment Service which is in that department. Now, I have noticed that K300 million has been allocated for Test Administration. The Ministry of Labour and Social Security has, through that unit, a number of tests that are used to assess suitability of applicants for jobs. For these to be relevant, a lot of work must continue to be done in terms of test development and test validation. Now, I notice that there is no money allocated for these purposes. We can have these tests that might have shown to be valid years ago or whose validity may not have been that high, but as the work situation and attitudes change and new employers come in, we need to constantly keep updating these tests in terms of validation.

When I talk about validation I mean, for example, if one gives a test to use for selection of a person to work as an operator of a machine and if such person passes that test, then if that test is valid, the person who passes that test must be able to perform much better in that job than a person who did not do well in that particular test. That is what we call that the test is valid. It is important that questions of validation of these tests are continuous all the time. We must also keep developing new tests because there are certain jobs that are coming into the market that were not there before and we have not developed tests for these jobs. These are issues that must be looked into.

Mr Chairperson, the last issue I would like to talk about is that of employment brokers. I recall that several years ago, the position of Ministry of Labour was such that there were totally opposed to employment brokers in the country and the idea was to try and get rid of them. Now, with time, the position of the ministry seems to have softened a little.

   I recall that the hon. Minister made a statement on this on the Floor of this House that they were trying to look at it to see whether they could still bring them into the system and if they would work. The reason for this is that in many other countries the situation of labour employment brokers and labour brokers is getting accepted and Zambia wanted to see whether we could live up with this it.

Mr Chairperson, my concern about these brokers is that instead of somebody being employed by a company, for example, Kansanshi Mine, the employer will refer the worker to the broker of two or an individual who have put up such a company and after one gets the job, when they are paid, the money does not come straight to them. It will go to the broker who has employed that person. That way, the employer escapes his obligations to the employee on things like entitlement to normal conditions of service and benefits and if there is a problem, they are supposed to go to the labour broker. The labour broker may not have the capacity to meet all these requirements of providing the normal conditions and benefits to the worker.

Mr Chairperson, considering that this is becoming a very common phenomenon in other countries and even Zambia, what is the position of our ministry? Are we now ready to accept this and if we are, are we prepared to come up with laws to protect the workers so that we outline the obligations of the employer and the employment broker so that our workers are protected because leaving it as it is creates a problem.

Mr Chairperson, I recognise that we may not be able to run away from it because it is happening in other countries as well, but it is important for us to come up with new laws or regulations that are going to protect our workers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Liato: Mr Chairperson, I will try and go through the issues that have been raised by the hon. Members very quickly. First of all, I would like to thank all those who have spoken in support of my Ministry’s budget.

Hon. Dr Machungwa and Hon. Muntanga have been supportive of the Ministry’s budget and we appreciate that very much. I just want to pick out a few thorny issues from the debate. The issue of labour brokering is a thorny one which needs time to resolve because it is a complex matter that may be coming into our system for the very first time. So, one would not really go into details now, except to say that it is complex and that we have to study it to find a suitable way forward.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of minimum wage has been raised by more than one person. Again, this is being done by the consultative labour council. At the moment, it is just going through the normal finishing touches of legal examination. Once the Ministry of Justice has finalised it, we should be tabling it before everybody so that we announce it to the nation.

Mr Chairperson, on the issues of casualisation that have been raised, the Government’s strong position on this is that we do not support casualisation and we will do everything we can to fight it. We will pursue this, but we need the efforts of every Zambian because the ministry and, indeed, the Government are doing all they can in our capacity to fight casualisation wherever it exists. Where we are not aware, we are asking the Zambian people to let our ministry know. This is within our capacity.

Mr Chairperson, I agree with hon. Muntanga that we have to work very hard to open offices in districts so that our presence can be felt. In many cases where abuse of office has been reported in districts, the reason this exists is that people are not reaching out to our people on the ground, but the unfortunate part is that we have had limitations in terms of funding to be able to access things like motor vehicles so that our people can reach these distant places. We hope that as we improve in monetary allocation like this year and if the same is done next year, the ministry will be in a better position to manage these things.

Finally, what is important to qualify also and I do not want to leave this hanging is what my own cousin Shakafuswa who is lost between debating here and outside is talking about with regard to investments of pension funds out of the country. There is no such thing existing at the moment, there are no pension funds as far as I am aware invested outside the country. If this happened, it must have happened long before I went to the ministry but, for now, all the pension funds are managed from within our country and that is the position.

Mr Chairperson, there is no interference whatsoever in the elections of the ZCTU executive which will be coming sometime next month. The position of the ministry is that of being neutral and that of being user friendly. The ministry is, indeed, friendly with every trade union and everybody in the labour movement is friends of the ministry and the other way round. We have a very strong relationship with the social partners as well as the employers and the employees and that friendship will continue because it is good for the industry, productivity and creation of wealth. We will continue to move closely with our colleagues in the trade unions and if you hear anything contrary, it is simply hearsay.

Mr Chairperson, the last issue I wish to talk about is the investment in Lotto. We spoke about Lotto before this House and the position is basically that there is no more investment by NAPSA in Lotto because it has withdrawn participation in it. Lotto has begun to refund the money to NAPSA. Again, if you are being told that investment has continued, that is not correct. I would like to say this as a general statement that almost all the investments that were entered into that appeared to have created conflict between the interest of the fund have been corrected by the board. If you knew the issues of the Mubuyu Farm and so on and so forth, all those have been dealt with and the contracts curtailed. At the moment, there is no such issue existing.

Mr Chairperson, I will end here because I do not think I have left anything that is thorny. I would like to thank all hon. Members for the support they have given our Vote.

I thank you.

Vote 44/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 44/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 44/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 44/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 44/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 44/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 85 – (Ministry of Lands – K36,229,196,739).

The Minister of Lands (Ms Lundwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver my policy statement on my ministry’s budget estimates for 2011.

Mr Chairperson, land being one of the factors of production and given the fact that its supply is fixed, it needs to be properly managed. It is for this reason that my ministry has set for itself a very clear mission statement which is:

“to deliver land efficiently, effectively and equitably, maintain accurate and up to-date land records and provide land information in order to contribute to socio-economic development for the benefit of the Zambian people and the country.”

With the mission as stated, my ministry will ensure the enhancement and decentralisation of the land administration system and its operations to provincial levels in order to facilitate easy access to land information and land as a resource.

Mr Chairperson, the programmes in next years budget are, therefore, aimed at achieving the ministry’s objectives so that the land delivery system in the country is improved and services are taken as close to our people as possible. Through an improved land delivery system, my ministry will be contributing significantly to the wellbeing of our people.

Mr Chairperson, in order to carry out its mandate, the Ministry of Land has four departments namely: Lands, Lands and Deeds, Survey and Human Resources and Administration. In addition to the four departments, my ministry is also responsible for the operations of the Lands Tribunal and the Survey Control Board. This means that the funds allocated to the ministry are shared amongst these four departments as well as the two statutory bodies to undertake their programmes.

Mr Chairperson, with the support that my ministry received from this House with regard to the 2010 budget, allow me to highlight some of the programmes that have been undertaken in the 2010 budget year.

Mr Chairperson, the house will recall that last year my ministry informed this House that it was in the process of procuring a map printing press so that survey maps could be produced within the country. I am, therefore, pleased to report that the printing press has since been procured. The acquisition of the printing press will significantly cut down on the costs currently being incurred as a result of these maps being printing outside the country.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry continues to liaise with councils who are its agents and planning authorities to make more land available for residential, commercial, industrial and other uses. As a way of encouraging investment, my ministry has been providing land to our people and investors. In 2011, the ministry will continue with its core mandate of allocating land to our people. In this regard, my ministry will collaborate with traditional leaders to ensure that customary land is made more available for productive use.

Mr Chairperson, the Land Development Fund is a fund which is meant to help councils to open up new areas for development through the preparation of site plans, surveying and the provision of basic infrastructure. As such, the ministry has to-date disbursed a total of K21,937,410,069 to forty-seven councils to enable them open up  new areas for development. I wish to appeal to hon. Members of this august to sensitise councils to apply in order for them to access this fund.

Mr Chairperson, the importance of maintaining international boundaries in order to prevent unnecessary disputes can not be overemphasised. It is for this reason that the ministry will continue with the work of physically marking and reaffirming international borders in 2011, working in-conjunction with neighbouring countries.

I am glad to mention that the Zambia/Mozambique boundary reaffirmation exercise where boundary beacons were dilapidated or destroyed has progressed well with 140 kilometres done, leaving a total of 192 kilometres to be completed. This exercise involves densification of the existing boundary to make it clear to nationals from both countries living along the boundary.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry contributes to the revenue collection efforts of the Government. In this regard, a total of K22,032,382,000 was collected as at 31st October, 2010 against the targeted sum of K29,000,000,000. Next year, my ministry will continue with its efforts aimed at enhancing its revenue collection so that it can contribute to the national Treasury.

The Ministry this year continued with one of its mandates of carrying out regular inspections. However, my ministry has noted with disappointment that most people who have been given land are not been complying with lease conditions. For example, most people are not developing their pieces of land after they have been offered. Instead, they want to keep the land for speculation purposes.  In 2011, my ministry will, therefore, continue with its regular inspections in order to ensure that there is lease compliance by land owners thereby curbing land speculation. This will ensure that all land is utilised for its intended purpose.

Mr Chairperson, for 2011, the ministry’s budget allocation is K36,229,196,739. From this allocation, my ministry will continue with the programmes embarked on in 2010. Further, my ministry also intends to work on other programmes which I shall now discuss.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has continued to experience problems in the administration of land due to fraudulently issued title deeds and in some cases forged ones. My ministry will, therefore, work to enhance the security features of title deeds and other legal documents in order to prevent these forgeries. This will further guarantee security of tenure to all land owners.

Mr Chairperson, the Land Information Management System continues to pose challenges with regard to security of information and thereby, security of land ownership. It is for this reason that my ministry will work on this information system so as to ensure that our people’s properties and investments are secure.

In this regard, my ministry will do data cleaning software upgrading and improvement of core infrastructure.

Cadastral Surveys

One of the requisites of processing of title deed is a cadastral survey diagram. My ministry intends to enhance the capacity of the Survey Department to ensure that cadastral survey diagrams are available for timely registration of properties, thereby securing people’s properties and investments.

Land Audit

In 2011, my ministry will enhance its efforts to audit all land in order to identify that which is idle so as to re-allocate it to deserving applicants. In the recent past, pilot projects have been done in four provinces, namely the Lusaka, Central, Copperbelt and Southern provinces. So far, the land exercise has borne fruits with land being made available for re-allocation to Zambians.

Sensitisation Programmes

It has been observed that the general public has little or no knowledge on procedures governing land, survey, allocation, registration and dispute resolution. For example, some people, after getting a letter of offer, sit back thinking that it is a title deed not knowing that they need to accept the offer by paying for it, having the plot surveyed and then signing the lease agreement before the title deed can be processed.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will, therefore, continue with its sensitisation programme to the general public on guidelines for the allocation, survey, registration and dispute resolution of both customary and State land.

Land Dispute Resolution

With the Lands Tribunal Bill that was passed by this House, which aims at increasing the mandate of the Lands Tribunal, land disputes will now be speedily dealt with. The ministry’s Lands Tribunal will, therefore, continue with this very important mandate of dispute resolution.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to urge all hon. Members of this august House to support the estimates for the programmes in next year’s Budget for my ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, I stand to register the sentiments of the people of Namwala and, generally, the people of the Southern Province on this matter of land.

I hope that, in the next fifteen minutes, I can deliberately speak slowly just so that I can deliver my point.

Mr Chairperson, the unending displacement of the people of the Southern Province from their land is creating concern in my mind.

Mr Kapeya: Sichifulo!

Major Chizhyuka: The unending displacement started from as far back as 1904 when the Tongas on the plateau were displaced by the colonialist. It proceeded to 1956 when, for the sake of this country having electricity, the Tonga people were removed from their most fertile land on the Kariba Banks on the Zambezi Valley.

In 1976, the people of Namwala were displaced so that we could have the Itezhi-tezhi Dam. In 1989, the Italians came to displace the Ila people from the Kafue flats, but they said no, over their dead bodies, they would not move. They succeeded and blocked that project which would have displaced in excess of 10,000 people. In 2005, the Worldwide Fund for Nature (WWF), working under some organisation from the United Kingdom, decided to combine Lochnivar National Park, Blue Lagoon and Mwanachingwala Conservation so that they could have a haven of animals. This was going to displace chief Mwanachingwala’s people. The eight foreign farmers, all of British origin, combined eight farms in Mazabuka to displace in excess of 10,000. The people of Shiyoowi Muntu decided that enough was enough and that they were not going to get displaced. Together, the people stayed.

This has continued and only two years ago, hon. Members of Parliament in this House petitioned the Head of State over the 8,500 people of Sichifulo. This Government should take action because the Sichifulo people are also Zambians. They are entitled to live on their land in peace and prosperity because land is a factor of production. How are they going to produce, gain wealth, send their children to school if they have no land on which to produce?

Mr Kapeya: Tell them!

Major Chizhyuka: The reason that our fore fathers, the Kapwepwes, Munukayumbwa Sipalos, the Kaundas, the Nkumbulas and other leaders left school and their children to go and fight for the independence of this country was that these very people could have land on which to grow food. All this is happening in mother Zambia. Our people are being displaced day in and day out and we are just watching.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Only in a few months, 3,500 people of Chief Macha were displaced by missionaries.

Mr Muntanga: Eee!

Major Chizhyuka: When is it going to end? 3,500 people being displaced by a missionary reminds me of Chinua Achebe in his book ‘The Things Fall Apart’ where he said:

“Beware of people with clothes like butterflies. He came peacefully and quietly with his religion.”

 He said the Whiteman is clever.

“He came quietly and peacefully with his religion. We were amazed at his foolishness and allowed him to stay. Now he has put a big knife to all the things that held us together and we have fallen apart.”

Mr Chairperson, the people of Macha allowed that missionary to come from America and seek like the camel which wanted only the nose in Macha. This missionary put up a hospital. Without the knowledge of the people of Macha, this missionary was actually accessing hundreds of hectares. Today, for a title which this missionary got at 13 shillings and 6 pence, 3,500 indigenous Zambians have nowhere to grow their food, their businesses have been shattered and their children have not gone to school to write their examinations. This is our country, hon. Minister of Lands, you are there in a Government in which your people, the people that vote for you are constantly being displaced.

Mr Lubinda: Uyo!

Mr Kapeya: Lelo aisa lelo! Muleyangala no mwaume ai?

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Chairperson, I am saying these things because they are close to my heart.

  I started to mingle with the people long before I was a Member of Parliament. I was suspended from this Parliament because I felt the pain of the people of Sichifulo, yet these things are still happening in the land of our ancestors in Southern Province and in a Government in which the black man is ruling. I appeal, through this debate, to the Government to stand up and be counted.

Mr Muntanga: They will not.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Major Chizhyuka: We are sensitising everybody in the Southern Province, Mr Chairperson, to vote wisely next year.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: And remember Sichifulo.

Major Chizhyuka: We ask the people to vote wisely for their own sake and mother Zambia, next year, ...

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Major Chizhyuka:  ... and everyone here knows my stand on this matter. You do not have to doubt. However, each one of us has a choice. Do you want those people to vote wisely?

Hon. Government Member: Yes.

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Major Chizhyuka:  If it is yes, do you think that the missionary is going to provide the vote?

Mr Muntanga: Sichifulo, take them back.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Chairperson, I heard the hon. Minister of Lands during the policy debate talk about accessing land from traditional leaders. Chief Macha has only 12,000 hectares.

Earlier, I talked about farms where foreigners of European origin have in excess of 120,000 hectares. The former hon. Minister of Lands, Mr Machila, asked me to give him the names, but I referred him to the Sakala Commission. Chief Macha, with all the population, has 12,000 hectares. From the 12,000 hectares, more has been taken away. Land in Chief Mwenda in Mazabuka has also been taken away. Now, these foreigners come by air with very special instruments to survey what minerals are in the ground. This is being done before the people of Chief Mwenda know. Once this is done, they ask for a piece of land because they already know the minerals that they are going to excavate. I remember Judge Ngulube at the National Constitution Commission (NCC) said that he shudders to think of a day ...

Hon. Member: Which one?

Major Chizhyuka: The Former Chief Justice. Judge Ngulube said that he shudders to think of a day when Zambia will be compartmentalised like Britain, where the only piece of land available is a title. Where are our people going to go?

Mr Chairperson, I was in Masivingo, Zimbabwe, when the land conflicts started. I witnessed Zimbabweans grabbing land by force from the White men. I spent three days visiting the farms. I saw farmers that who only had plastic bags now have goats, chickens and pigeons. They grow vegetables and corn. They have wealth on the farms that were once owned by White men. I am not suggesting the same to happen in this country. However, all I am saying is that this continuous displacement of the people of the Southern Province from their God-given land must stop. Where in the world have you seen wars that are not based on land? The problems in the Middle East, genocide in Rwanda, the Kokomba-Nanumba War in Ghana, the wars in Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe and Darfur were all about land.

Dr Machungwa: Sudan.

Major Chizhyuka: Yes, indeed. Thank you very much, Sir. I do not understand how these problems have been allowed to continue only in the Southern Province, yet the Black man has continued to govern. I, therefore, appeal to the Government to stop people from continuously being displaced. Hon. Colleagues, this must change.

Mr Lubinda: Bantu baile.

Major Chizhyuka: We cannot allow this problem to go on. I think it is important to get land from foreign farmers. Let us get it as Zambia. At the moment, the Government is busy bothering Senior Chieftainess Nkomeshya Mukamambo II for land when someone has brought zebras in Lilayi, which is near the Lusaka City. There is no land. You can ask even the President of the Republic of Zambia that there is no such kind of land. Why should a White man bring zebras one kilometre away from Lusaka City? Why did we get our Independence? This White man has over 100 hectares of land and he bought that land ...

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Major Chizhyuka: Just go to the Ministry of Lands and check. You are new. They bought the pieces of land in shillings and six pences. Now that we have our Independence, they have come up with housing initiatives with a lot of publicity. The same fellows who colonised us are now using our land and making millions and millions of dollars out by creating housing initiatives and ranching on our land. What is the value of our votes? Why did the Africans put you in Government? Was it to perpetually torture them by going to the chiefs?

There is an Indian in the Makeni Township near Lilayi Police Training School of Lusaka who has too much land. The land should be repossessed because he has built a house in some corner. I, therefore, appeal to the Government to redress this situation because it is embarrassing. The Black people are in Government because people voted for us.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I want to say that I support this Vote. I would like to borrow the debate of Hon. Major Chizhyuka because it gives me relief. The last time I heard that kind of debate from him was before he went into problems with his party. Welcome on board.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: I agree with him entirely that land is a very important heritage and a country cannot call itself a country unless it has control of its land.

Hon. Major Chizhyuka made reference to the many wars that have been fought on the basis of land. He forgot to mention the war that was fought in Zimbabwe just close to us. All of us are aware of what happened in Zimbabwe not too long ago all because of the issue of the management or mismanagement of land. I, therefore, agree with the hon. Minister mission’s statement of delivery of land the efficiently, effectively and equitably. This is very important because unless land is delivered efficiently and equitably, you set yourselves a very good stage for conflict.

Now, I also ought to say I am delighted that the initiative taken by the late President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. to clean up the Ministry of Lands seems to be producing dividends. The production of the service charter at the Ministry of Lands seems to be improving the provision of land in the ministry. I also ought to say well done, Ministry of Lands.

There was a time when there was a huge backlog of cases in the Ministry of Lands because of the technocrats there. However, without mentioning names, when there were changes in one office, citizens saw an improvement in the processing of their applications. Nonetheless, more could be done. When I say that more could be done, I mean that more should start from inside this House.

While we are tasking this ministry with such a huge responsibility of managing our important heritage, are we matching that with the resources we give to it? If you peruse through the 2011 Budget, you will see that we are not putting our money where our mouths are.

Sir, in the 2011 Budget, you will see that whereas the total national Budget has increased by 22 per cent, the allocation to State House by 30 per cent and the allocation to the Office of the Vice-President, without considering the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), by 15 per cent, the allocation to the ministry that ought to protect us against land conflicts, has only had its budget increased by 4 per cent from K34 billion to K36 billion. We expect it to perform wonders without giving it the tools with which to work.

Mr Chairperson, I, therefore, appeal to the hon. Minister of Lands that when you start to negotiate for budget allocation, explain to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that it is not possible for us to grow the economy if our land resource is not properly managed.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Lands mentioned that land is a very important factor of production, but it depends on who handles it. In whose hands is the land? If the land remains idle, it is and remains potential. We would like that land to be used by anybody who can ensure that they grow the economy for the sake of the Zambian people and not for the sake of externalising the result of working on that resource.

Sir, my colleague, who, today, has impressed me and many others, talked about how many people are being displaced and referred to the people in the Southern Province. A case that many of the hon. Ministers gathered here are aware of is that of Mahopo in Lusaka. As many people are aware, this has been a raging issue for years, and yet that was a problem created by the ineptitude of the people at the Ministry of Lands.

Sir, I am sure that people remember that there was one senior officer who was either dismissed or transferred from the Ministry of Lands a day after the people of Mahopo matched to the Ministry of Lands to go and complain that they were being treated as though they were foreigners. To date, the problems of the people of Mahopo have not been resolved. What is the holdback? What is the problem? I hope that the hon. Minister will move in quickly to resolve that problem so that the people of Mahopo can also own a piece of their mother country. Where do you want to throw them to?

Mr Chairperson, I know that the people at the Ministry of Lands, including the hon. Deputy Minister and the hon. Minister are aware of the fact that I stand for what is right. When people want to abuse land which does not belong to them, I stand up and encourage them to do the right thing. Therefore, when I debate matters like this, it is because things can be done better.

Sir, another matter which the hon. Minister referred to is that she wants her ministry to be felt closer to the people. The policy guidance on that matter is that the Ministry of Lands will work through the local authorities which are the councils. That is the arrangement and that is the reason you do not find an office of the Ministry of Lands in …

Mr Lubinda patted Hon. Dr Machungwa on the shoulder.

Mr Lubinda: What is your constituency? Bangweulu.

Dr Machungwa: Luapula Constituency.

Mr Lubinda: Instead, you find Samfya Council. Sir, the challenge that we have is that some people in the Ministry of Lands think that by withdrawing the agency on land management from some councils, they make themselves big and powerful. That is what has contributed to the rampant abuse of land in the City of Lusaka.

A lot of people in Lusaka have built on illegal plots because they claim that those pieces of land where given to them by the Ministry of Lands without the knowledge of the council. As we speak, there is a team at the Ministry of Lands that is conducting interviews for people who have applied for land in Lusaka or Chongwe where there are councils. Why do you not allow the local authorities to perform the functions that you have delegated to them?

Earlier today, we were told about the former President’s House which cannot be built because some people have been given a huge track of land on that piece of land. I am sure that Hon. Mulongoti remembers that the piece of land in question was grabbed from the Lusaka City Council (LCC) in the same year that one hon. Minister of Lands was caught up in land abuse issues.

Sir, I call on the hon. Minister of Lands to quickly give back the agency to the LCC because it is the planning authority, and hence should have the agency to manage land so that the two go together. You cannot expect the LCC to only manage aspects of development plans, and yet they are not aware of how the land is being distributed.

Nobody informs the LCC of which parcels of land have been demarcated and given to Hon. Mulongoti. We would like to ensure that when we receive an application from one such as my good friend, Hon. Mulongoti, who I can refer to without any malice, that we can check the land record and see that the peace of land was acquired legally.

Sir, the land audit that the hon. Minister spoke about is a matter that has been discussed in this House over many years and it is a very important exercise. However, that must not only be targeted at discovering which pieces of land are idle or not on title, but finding out how much land is held by which individuals. This is meant to buttress what the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala, Hon. Chizhyuka, said. Some people have such huge tracks of land that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will continue to own land at the expense of the majority Zambians like the people in Mahopo who cannot even own an inch of their motherland.

Please, go out there. For instance, with regard to the Baobab land that Hon. Mulongoti referred to this morning. The law is very clear that if you are allocated a piece of land, within eighteen months there must be signs of development on it.  At the moment, the Baobab land is lying idle, and yet there are provisions for us to re-enter. Please, let us go ahead and re-enter such idle land and distribute it to deserving citizens.

Dr Machungwa gave Hon Lubinda a cue.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, my friend, Hon. Dr Machungwa, has alerted me to the fact that the matter is in court. I am sorry, I was not aware. Thank you for alerting me.

Mr Chairperson, let me move away from that and talk about the Land Task Force that was established at the Ministry of Home Affairs. How I wish the Ministry of Lands would take a leadership role in the issue of inspections on land management, particularly illegal allocation of plots in the City of Lusaka.

Can the hon. Minister of Lands, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice propose amendments to the law so that invasion of land for which you have no title must be a criminal offence provided for under the Penal Code. The problem we have now is that every time we report issues of land encroachment to the police, we are told that it is not in the Penal Code, therefore, they cannot prosecute anyone for it. As a result, people are taking advantage of that and abusing land wantonly.

Sir, soon, a project which the people of Kabwata Constituency and I support very much will come up. This is the establisment of a ring road. However, 200 houses are bound to be razed down. Unfortunately, some of those houses are sitting on illegally acquired land. Who is going to compensate those people because the people who allocated the land are unknown?

Mr Chairperson, through you, it is a pity today your radio is off, but through this House, I would like to appeal to whoever in Kabwata will be affected to come and indicate to us who at the Ministry of Lands or Lusaka City Council allocated them that piece of land so that we take them task to compensate the people.

Sir, as I have only a minute remaining, let me move to another issue. The hon. Minister made reference to the Land Development Fund which is an important fund meant to assist councils to develop and open up new land. However, I listened very attentively to the hon. Minister when she said, for the 2010 Budget, her ministry released 26 billion to forty-six councils. I like to read Government documents and I immediately remembered that I noticed in the Budget that only K15 billion was allocated for the Land Development Fund for the Year 2010.

Can the hon. Minister, when she stands up to wind up debate, clarify how she managed to release K26 billion in 2010 when the only resources made available to her ministry by this Parliament at the behest of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the purpose in question was only K15 billion. Hon Minister, where did other the K11 billion come from? Please, explain that when you stand up to wind up debate on this vote.

Sir, the hon. Minister should also clarify to the House, what criterion she is using to release the Land Development Fund so that all hon. Members of Parliament are aware it. Since she asked us to go and encourage our councils to apply for assistance through this fund, I think that it is important that she lays the guidelines on the Floor of this House. Please, can she, at a later date, come and produce guidelines for hon. Members of Parliament to be informed so that in turn they can inform their councils as regards what to do.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, as I said earlier, we will have to restrict the number of people to participate in a particular debate. Bearing that ion mind, I will ask one more hon. Member to contribute to the debate. For the sake of gender, I will give the Floor to Hon. Kawandami and I hope she will be brief.

Mrs Kawandami (Chifubu): Mr Chairperson, I will be very brief.

Sir, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of the House.  I would like to start by saying that land is important to humans and animals for habitation purposes. For a long time, people have been using land for their survival because it is from land that they get food and water for life’s sustenance.

World over, war has broken out because of land. In Zambia, land is scarce. The people of Chifubu are also fighting for land for their survival. At present, most of the people in Chifubu Constituency are squatting on the forest reserves. The people of Chifubu have nowhere to go. They have nowhere to farm. In this regard, I am requesting the hon. Minister to consider formalising a process of turning part of the forestry reserves into an area for residential purposes for the people of Chifubu Constituency.

Professor Phiri: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Professor Phiri: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member in order to read whilst debating? I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member now debating is being reminded that she can refer to notes, but not read throughout her debate.

May she continue.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Chairperson, the people of Chifubu live in fear because most of the time, they think that the Government might come up with programmes to enter into these forest reserves and, thereby displace them. These people want land where they will feel free as citizens of this country. Most of them get displaced, especially when the time for elections comes. They fear that they will be removed from these areas. They are crying for land. Hon. Minister, make sure you degazette some of the forest reserves for the people of Chifubu to live at peace. This way, they will be able to find ways of looking after their families and also contribute to the national resources of this country through farming.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Chairperson, firstly, I want to thank the hon. Members who have contributed to debate on the Ministry of Lands Estimates.

Sir, I would like to respond to Major Chizhyuka’s concerns over the Sichifulo area. I am sure that Hon. Chizhyuka is aware that the case is being handled by the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. The people he is concerned about are in a protected area.

Sir, Hon. Lubinda raised so many issues and I want to thank him for his support. I thank him for his concern on the Mahopo people. My ministry will try to look at the issue and see how best it can be resolved.

Sir, on the issue of the agents for the Lusaka City Council (LCC), the Ministry of Lands, at the moment, is unable to restore the agency. It can only do that if it is convinced that the LCC is able to perform well. We want the people of the LCC to be professional, fair and equal in allocating land.

Sir, Hon. Lubinda also mentioned the advertising of land by our people. Let me take this opportunity to inform the hon. Members of Parliament that the Ministry of Lands is principal where land allocation is concerned. This is according to Act No. 1985, Circular No. 1. The city councils are simply our agents and the allocation of land is in line with the Laws of Zambia. Unless Mr Lubinda wants something else to be done, at the moment, we are the principal and have all the powers. Land allocation is vested in the President who delegates the commissioner of lands to be in charge. Hon. Lubinda, we are, therefore, doing the right thing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lundwe: I think that Hon. Kawandami rightly put it when she said that her people are in a forest reserve. This means that they have settled in a wrong area. She actually mentioned that they are squatting. They are not supposed to be in this area. The best thing she can do is direct this issue to the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources which will be able to handle this problem.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is doing its best on the Land Development Fund. Money is available. I would like to challenge hon. Members to come forward and apply for this money. I have observed that some councils that have come forward have benefited more than others. Money is available as long as councils apply for it. You cannot expect us, for lack of a better word, to guess who wants this money.


Ms Lundwe: If you do not apply, we cannot give you money.

Mr Lubinda interjected. 

Ms Lundwe: Hon. Lubinda, I thank you that for the first time, you debated well.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank the hon. Members for their support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 85/01 – (Ministry of Lands – Human Resource and Administration – K22,778,557,755).

Mr Lubinda:   Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 15, Activity 04 – Civil Works Under Land Development Fund – K11,569,643,498. Last year, we allocated close to K15 billion. For the 2011 Fiscal Year, the hon. Minister is requesting for K11 billion. Could she kindly explain where she got the K21 billion that she says she has released, so far, in the Fiscal Year 2010 for this activity?

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Chairperson, the explanation for Programme 15, Activity 04 – Civil Works Under Land Development Fund – K11,569,643,498 is that the money is not only from appropriation by Parliament or as granted by Parliament.

The House may wish to know that 50 per cent of the consideration fee that an applicant pays actually goes to this fund. Further, 50 per cent of the land rates that people pay also go to this fund. As you may be aware, this fund was introduced in 1995. Therefore, this money has been accumulating all along and together with the yearly appropriations by Parliament, the amount has increased.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 85/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 85/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 85/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 85/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 45 – (Ministry of Community Development and Social Services – Headquarters –K133,460,366,536).

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to discuss the estimates of expenditure for my ministry, Community Development and Social Services, for the year, 2011 which stands at K133,460,366,536 compared to this year’s approved budget expenditure of K77,548,249,374. This reflects an increment of 42.6 per cent, that is K56,912,117,262 in the 2011 Budget.

The Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is an important vehicle which the Government created to facilitate the implementation of poverty reduction programmes in order to improve the livelihood of the poor and marginalised members of our society.

Mr Chairperson, the Government, through the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, has a number of programmes aimed at improving the welfare of the poor and vulnerable in our society. Allow me to highlight a few of them.

Social Cash Transfer Scheme

Mr Chairperson, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme aims at delivering social assistance in the form of cash to those who are extremely poor and incapacitated and cannot be reached by labour-based programmes. These people need regular and continuous assistance to survive and educate their children.

In 2011, the Government and our co-operating partners have allocated K42.7 billion for this. The Government will provide K13.9 billion while the co-operating partners will put in K28.9 billion. This clearly demonstrates that my Government is working with co-operating partners in service delivery. However, it is worth mentioning that the scaling up of the Social Cash Transfer Programme will be done in phases based on high poverty levels, under five deaths and malnutrition.

In 2011, the scheme will be rolled out to Kalabo, Kaputa, Shang’ombo, Serenje and Luwingu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Food Security Pack

Mr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, in the coming year, my ministry will continue to implement the Food Security Pack Programme in all the nine provinces. We have allocated K15 billion to this programme. Again, this is an increment by 33.5 …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)


The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 23rd November, 2010.