DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 11th March, 2011

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

APPOINTMENT OF MR M. J. C. MISAPA, MP, TO THE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE, HUMAN RIGHTS AND GENDER MATTERS

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that, in accordance with the Standing Orders, Mr M. J. C. Misapa, MP, has been appointed to serve on the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters.

Thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 15th March, 2011, the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Second Reading stage of the following Bills:

(i) The Public Procurement (Amendment) Bill, 2011;

(ii) The Registration of Business Names Bill, 2011;

(iii) The Trades Licensing (Repeal) Bill, 2011; and

(iv) The Education Bill, 2011.

After that, the House will consider the Committee stage of the Zambia Qualifications Authority Bill, 2010.

On Wednesday, 16th March, 2011, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. Then, the House will consider the Second Reading stage of the following Bills:

(i) The Tolls Bill, 2011;

(ii) The Traditional Beer (Repeal) Bill, 2011; and

(iii) The Liquor Licensing Bill, 2011.

Sir, on Thursday, 17th March, 2011, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 18th March, 2011, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. The House will then deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

After that, the House will consider the Second Reading stage of the following Bills:

(i) The Fisheries Bill, 2011; and

(ii) The Ionising Radiation Protection (Amendment) Bill, 2011.

Thereafter, the House will consider any other business that may be outstanding.

Sir, I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

SOVEREIGN CREDIT RATING BY FITCH

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, let me begin by thanking you most sincerely for according me the opportunity to address this august House on the credit rating of Zambia of B-plus that was assigned to the country by Fitch Ratings and was announced on Wednesday, 2nd March, 2011.

Sir, the world over and, most recently, in Africa, countries have requested reputable independent rating agencies to assess their credit worthiness. These ratings, which are typically grades ranging from “triple A” to ‘D’, are intended to reflect the relative chance that a sovereign nation will default on its obligations to make timely payments when its debt falls due.

Mr Speaker, this independent opinion by specialist private institutions, is not only on the basis of economic prospects for the country, but also on other equally important aspects relating to the ability and willingness of a country to pay, such as good governance and political stability.

Sir, the process for determining the rating is not only rigorous, but also wide so that the views of as many stakeholders as possible inform the grade assigned. In this regard, other than Government ministries and institutions, institutions outside the public sector were also interviewed and these include the following:

(i) co-operating partners;

(ii) think tank organisations;

(iii) the private sector;

(iv) private political analysts; and

(v) Opposition hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, the rating process is widely consultative in order to arrive at a rating that is reflective of the dynamics obtaining in the country.

Mr Speaker, what then does obtaining a rating of B-plus from Fitch mean for Zambia? It means the following:

(i) the country will now become more visible among its peers in Africa. You may be interested in knowing that the rating assigned to Zambia by Fitch is a notch above that assigned to Mozambique, Uganda, Rwanda, Benin, Cameroon and Seychelles and on a par with Angola, Ghana and Kenya;

(ii) the rating will augment the efforts currently underway to attract foreign direct investment (FDI). As hon. Members of the House are aware, one of the main factors that deter FDI into Africa is limited information;

(iii) it will play an important role in supporting greater public sector transparency as information about the country becomes widely publicised;

(iv) it is a vote of confidence for the country to go to the international market and issue a bond to raise development financing, thereby diversifying the sources of revenue available to the Government and country;

(v) it enhances access of the private sector in Zambia to the global capital market, as the rating gives international investors comfort not only about Zambia’s ability to pay, but also that of the local firms. The rating also has the potential to reduce the cost of borrowing for both the public and private sectors in Zambia; and

(vi) it has the potential to deepen the local capital market due to greater knowledge by the international investment community about Zambia. In turn, this can provide the much needed long-term financing.

Mr Speaker, the rating assigned to Zambia is a reflection that we have achieved marked improvement in economic performance as shown by our adherence to principles of economic liberalisation, attainment of macroeconomic stability, the rising private confidence and investment, especially in the mining sector, and the strengthening of our performance in agriculture, construction and manufacturing.

Mr Speaker, this achievement is not the end in itself, but the beginning of our efforts to further enhance economic performance. We still have a number of challenges to address for the nation to attain even higher ratings, in future, and bring us close to higher performers in Africa such as Botswana. Key among these challenges is the need to address the high cost of doing business in the country.

Sir, the Government is already taking measures to address these challenges by investing more in infrastructure development, such as construction and rehabilitation of our roads to open up rural areas and ease access to regional markets, rehabilitation of existing power stations and construction of new ones to cater for the growing demand for electricity and rehabilitation and construction of our airport and railway infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, the Government is also investing in the development of human capital and increasing spending in the social sectors of health, education and water and sanitation. It is also committed to continuing with reforms necessary to reduce the amount of red tape that individuals and businesses encounter in the process of doing business.

Mr Speaker, these and other reforms are aimed at ensuring that the Zambian people fully participate in the successes achieved by this Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, this is a commitment which the team of His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, is fully committed to.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been made by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. The success of any government is translated into the well-being of its citizens. I want the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to explain to me, in real terms, how successful this programme of credit rating has translated to the well-being of people, say in my constituency in areas called Shakapinka, Miyono, Nachaba and Shimungalu. Tied to that, I would also want to know the notch of a “triple A” and the B-plus, which Zambia has attained.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I believe and understand that there is the one-question rule. So, maybe, I will take the first question on the concrete achievements as far as the hon. Member’s constituency is concerned.

Mr Speaker, I would have imagined that the hon. Member would recognise that, in Mazabuka, this MMD Government helped to create a Nickel Mine that did not initially exist employing hundreds of people and generating a lot of side businesses. I am sure that has been reflected in the credit rating of B-plus. Similarly, in Mazabuka where previously we were producing, I think, 200,000 tonnes of sugar, today, that has been doubled and prospects for more to be produced are very high. This, I am sure, has also contributed to the positive rating that we have received because this not only creates jobs for the local people, but it also enhances our ability to earn foreign exchange and to create side businesses for the local people.

Mr Speaker, finally, I am sure that the hon. Member will recognise that there are so many pieces of infrastructure ─ the schools and hospitals ─ that have been put up in his constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): The hon. Minister has informed this House that the Government is doing fine in terms of running the economy. However, my concern, Mr President, is what is on the ground. Firstly, …

Mr Lubinda: President?

Mr D. Mwila: Sorry, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: … it is now twenty years of the MMD Government being in power and one of the issues is that it has failed to tar the Mansa/Luwingu Road. The other issue is on the unemployment levels which are too high. Therefore, can the hon. Minister convince me on what he has talked about in his statement.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the Mansa/Luwingu Road was not on the immediate programme, but it is there in the plan. We have been told, over and again, that the works on this road are about to be completed. The last time I checked, I was told that there were only 10 km remaining before the works on the road could be completed.

Mr Speaker, the Mansa/Luwingu Road is just one link in the loop that will stretch from East Africa. This loop moves as follows; from Nakonde to Isoka; Isoka to Kasama; Kasama to Luwingu; Luwingu to Mansa and from Mansa to the Copperbelt. Now, in that loop, the works on the Kasama/Luwingu Road are being completed. This year, we are starting with the Isoka/Kasama Road and also the Copperbelt Pedicle Road. So, you can see that there is consistent progression in realising the completion of this route from Isoka to the Copperbelt.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, Government expenditure must be approved by this House through the Budget. I would like to know how much money was paid to the consultant and under which head this expenditure was approved.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we approved the Budget for 2011 and I believe that was the time when the hon. Member should have raised this question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that this credit rating has the potential to reduce the cost of borrowing for foreign direct investors. The Zambian citizens and business people are still faced with extortionate and usury rates. When is the hon. Minister going to do that which is necessary to ensure interest rates come down below the average rate of return on investments?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, indeed, the process of our credit rating is one of the many things that the Government is looking into to help reduce the cost of capital.

Mr Speaker, the goodness about our country, which is so liberalised, is that individuals and firms also have the freedom to borrow from outside. With this rating, we should see interest rates come down.

Mr Speaker, domestically, there are many things that we have announced, now and then, in this House on what we are doing to reduce the cost of borrowing.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, with the background that features among other rating agencies, as recently as 2007, in the United States of America, subprime housing bonds were given “triple A” rating. Would I, please, ask the question raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central that was not answered on what a B-plus means in relation to ratings in other countries and so on and so forth? At the moment, we have just a B-plus as if it were a mark from an examination in a school.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that the range is between “triple A” and D depending on the institution that is doing the rating in the case of which there are twenty grades in between “triple A” and D. The B-plus is fourteen out of twenty.

Mr Speaker, we have to be realistic and take things in context in the sense that, obviously, it is unrealistic to expect Zambia to be like America or Germany. We are not in that range the same way that you cannot expect the Patriotic Front (PF) to be part of the Ruling Party in this country.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I did not hear what the hon. Minister said because of the applause.
 
Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we have to take things in context because, in our developmental process, we cannot compare ourselves with America, which has a “triple A” rating. We have to be lower. The most important context is that when we compare ourselves with our fellow African countries, which is our league, then the question will be where do we stand? In that regard, we are in very good standing. Therefore, I want to emphasise that we must take things in relativity just like the PF, which is a fringe party, cannot expect to win this year’s elections.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

If one of you had raised a point of order on the last part of that presentation, I was not going to be able to rule because I did not hear what the hon. Minister said. There was so much applause or something else on that part.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, my question has already been asked by the hon. Member for Lusaka Central.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s statement on the issue of addressing energy in the country, he mentioned the construction of a new power station. How does he intend to construct a new power station in Itezhi-tezhi, in particular, where a road which was tarred in 1978, has turned into a bush trail? How does he intend to take the turbines into Itezhi-tezhi where there is even no air strip?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the road that the hon. Member is talking about is, indeed, not in a position that it was sometime in the past. It requires to be worked on. This is why we are saying that, with this rating, our ability to access capital to work on infrastructure such as the one he has mentioned is important.

Having said that, let me also add that electricity, of course, is not transported by road, but by cables. Therefore, electricity from Itezhi-tezhi is not going to be taken by road, but by cables to the grid. The road is not in the state which makes driving impossible. It is possible to drive but, of course, we want it to improve and we are going to work on it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much money was paid to the consultant who carried out this exercise. Even if it was budgeted for, we want to know how much money was spent.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I do not have the figure in my head, but if the hon. Member so wishes, he can submit the question and we will be able to provide the answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, looking at the rating that the hon. Minister has indicated to this House, logically, it will follow that, among the ratings above B-plus, there is also “double B” and “treble B”. This means that the rating of Zambia is about seven out of the highest rating. Is that the correct position?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let me repeat by saying that we have to take things in context. Just to give you further clarification on the countries that are rated B-plus, I mentioned Kenya and Angola. Please, remember that Angola is a country that produces a lot of oil. In our case, of course, we do not have oil although the prospects are there.

Mr Kambwili: We have copper!

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, we have copper which is going to expand just as it is deemed that other sectors will as well. This is what puts us in the same league with the countries that produce oil.

Mr Speaker, the other country that is rated B-plus like Zambia is Ghana. Ghana produces a lot of gold and is about to start exporting oil. Another example that I can give is Vietnam. Hon. Members who follow these issues very closely may recall that Vietnam is, very quickly, getting into the league of the East Asian Tigers which are the likes of Taiwan and Hong Kong. Vietnam and Zambia are both rated B-plus. So, when we compare ourselves in that context, it will be very clear that this is actually a very good rating for Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MUKUBA PENSION SCHEME

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) why the Mukuba Pension Scheme had engaged fund managers to administer the pension scheme;

(b) what benefits had been accrued to the Mukuba Pension Scheme as a result of the engagement of the fund managers; and

(c) how many employees of the Mukuba Pension Scheme had been retained following the engagement of the fund managers.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the scheme has not engaged fund managers to administer it. Instead, it manages and administers its own affairs on behalf of its members. It is commonly known as a Self-Administered Fund.

Mr Speaker, since the scheme has not engaged fund managers, questions (b) and (c) do not arise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, has the Government or Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) paid the money which was owed to Mukuba Pension Scheme because it has been facing a lot of financial problems?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, the Government is working towards that and will pay back the money it got from Mukuba Pension Scheme as soon as funds are made available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, Mukuba Pension Scheme was created to look after pensions for Zambians and, indeed, invest the moneys in the development of this country. Why has this Government allowed Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) to subscribe with the Saturnia Regna Pension Scheme, which is based in South Africa and uses our money to develop that country?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, yes, KCM had asked for an exemption so that it could have its pension managed by the South African company.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, it is not only KCM that has invested money with the South African company, but also Mopani Copper Mines Plc. Of what benefit is this to Zambians?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, Mopani Copper Mines and KCM asked for exemptions. Therefore, the same answer I have given with regard to KCM applies to Mopani Copper Mines.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

KAWAMBWA OIL EXPLORATION PROGRAMME

316. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development when the oil exploration programme in Kawambwa District would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, my ministry, through the Geological Survey Department, undertook reconnaissance microbial prospecting for oil and gas in the Northern Province in 2007 and 2008. The exercise covered Kawambwa District, Lake Mweru Wa Ntipa area and Lake Tanganyika. The whole area was demarcated into petroleum Block No. 31 and has been reserved for the Government. The Government is engaging investors who may be interested in undertaking detailed exploration. The successful investor who will be selected by the Government will be licensed to carry out detailed petroleum exploration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, a few minutes ago, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning informed this House that Zambia had the same credit rating as oil producing countries. This story of oil exploration has been in this House for the past four years.

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are debating.

You may continue.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, when is the Government going to be serious enough to engage in oil exploration so that we can be like Angola?

Hon. Government Member: We are already.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, this Government is very serious about this programme ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: ... in that it is busy giving blocks to various companies which are interested. In fact, the Government has reserved blocks for serious investors. As I stated, the Government has engaged companies from other countries to come and explore on its behalf.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Cifire: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of speculation and trials of exploration for oil starting with the Chama Placid Oil Company and talk of oil deposits in the Western and North-Western provinces. Is there any information, at the moment, relating to how things look? Are we really not chasing something that does not exist? Is it a chimera or do we have hope that we are likely to get some oil?

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, honestly speaking, we have a lot of hope. Our Government has done the first exploration. Soil samples were sent to Germany for examination and the results were very positive. The soil samples where good indicators of oil and gas presence. Following this, the Government has demarcated the areas the soil samples were taken from into various blocks. So far, out of the eight companies that successfully bade for these blocks, three have been given licences for exploration. One has been given for Block No. 27 and the other one is the Barotse Oil and Gas Company in the Western Province. The three companies that have been given licences will start oil exploration as soon as the rainy season is over. So, I urge the hon. Members of the House to be patient as we will soon have the results.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the Government has, so far, only been talking about exploration works. I want to find out when the works will be completed so that we can bring in investors.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, exploration works with regards to any mineral are very important. The investors must find out the amount of oil present in the soils in question. Without exploration works, you cannot claim that a particular area has something which can be turned into a final product. Exploration takes longer than a month. It takes many years and people must be convinced that there is something in the soils for exploration to take place. That is why they are still undertaking exploration works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why it has become a phenomenon to create hope that we will soon have oil and certain minerals being mined in this country, and yet we do not do any serious work in that direction. When we came to Parliament, there was excitement about oil exploration …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 What is your question?

Mr L. J. Mulenga:  Mr Speaker, when is the Executive going to be specific regarding the country’s ability to produce oil so that we do not go on living in hope?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, after the surveyors in the Department of Geological Survey did their exploration, they demarcated these areas into blocks. Now, we have advertised these blocks so that some of you who have money can go for these blocks and do the exploration. There are a few companies, that I just mentioned, that have started exploration works.

Mr Speaker, the first stage is exploration, which the Government has supported. What remains is for interested investors to attest that the preliminary exploration results were credible and then they can do the actual exploration as is the case with the other minerals in the country.

As for the blocks that have not yet been taken, the hon. Members of Parliament are free to have them. I have the map indicating the oil blocks and I can lay it on the Table for their interest.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

KALUNDU FOREST SQUATTERS

317. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources what action the Government would take on squatters who have settled in Kalundu Forest of Nakasaka Ward in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that we do not have a national forest reserve by the name of Kalundu Forest in Nangoma Constituency as the question suggests.

Hon. Opposition Member: Quality!

Mr Mwangala: Kalundu is an area located in the Mushingashi Forest Reserve No. P 351, which is on the border of Nangoma and Mumbwa Central constituencies. Instead, we have a forest called Kawena National Forest Reserve No. P 42 which is located in Kapyanga Area covering a total land area of 18, 809 hectares.

Mr Kambwili: Obama!

Mr Mwangala: The forest reserve was reserved for conservation and to supply wood and non-wood forest products to the surrounding communities.

Mr Speaker, my ministry has already commenced the process of evicting illegal squatters from protected forest reserves in Mumbwa District. To this effect, a traditional leader who was involved in illegal allocation of land was apprehended and successfully prosecuted. A total of ten illegal squatters have since been evicted and the exercise will be extended to Mulungushi Forest Reserve.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am informed that there are 300 people in this area and that the Government intends to evict them. I would like to know where these villagers will be taken.

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, national forests are Government property and not personal property. These people will go where they came from.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures the Government is taking with regard to people who are staying in game management areas (GMAs) and have not looked after the wildlife as they should?

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, forest reserves, GMAs and national parks are protected areas by law. It is, therefore, our duty, as a Government, to ensure that these protected areas are not encroached upon. Wherever encroachment takes place, we work very closely with the people themselves and the traditional leaders to ensure that we remove them from the protected areas.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

DEPARTMENT OF WATER AFFAIRS VEHICLES AUCTION

318. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

 (a) when the Government would auction vehicles at the Department of Water   Affairs on Sheki Sheki Road;

 (b) what the total number of vehicles to be auctioned was; and

 (c) what the models of the vehicles were.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, the Government will auction vehicles at the Department of Water Affairs on Sheki Sheki Road at a date to be determined by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. This will be done when all logistical arrangements are put in place and after the Board of Survey has been convened to recommend the mode of disposal.

Mr Speaker, the total number of vehicles to be auctioned will be determined by the Board of Survey which will, among other things, inspect, value and identify the vehicles to be disposed of.

Mr Speaker, the models of vehicles to be auctioned will only be known after the Board of Survey has decided which vehicles are to be auctioned.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why this Government is fond of buying all sorts of models of vehicles, including Sanyong, Cherokee, ‘Juwangchwaang’, ‘Gwalankwacha’.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Why is his Government … (pointing at the hon. Minister)

Mr Speaker: Order!

You have to control that finger.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: No finger pointing is allowed in the House.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from … (pointing to the hon. Minister)

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Ntundu: I am sorry, Sir. It is a reflex action.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the Government buys all sorts of vehicles which are not durable and which it fails to maintain. Why does the Government not stick to models which it can afford to repair …

Mr Kambwili: Like Toyota and Nissan.

Mr Ntundu: … like Toyota and Nissan other than the Sanyong, ‘Gangyon’ and ‘Kangyo’…

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

No marketing is allowed in the House.

Laughter

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, although the question is on auctioning the vehicles, which are along Sheki Sheki Road, I agree that the Government buys different models of vehicles. This is in order to establish which vehicles can work well in Zambia. We cannot stick to one model forever. Therefore, buying different models helps us test other models on the road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, broken down Government vehicles are lying around the yards of Government premises across the country. When will this Government reduce the red tape in auctioning these vehicles so that it gets revenue?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, with a lot of scrap metal companies coming up, most of the vehicles have disappeared.

Laughter

Mr Mangani: Sir, right now, we are auctioning the vehicles which are in bad shape. However, most of them have disappeared.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the auctioning of the vehicles will be done once the Ministry of Finance and National Planning finishes working on the logistical modalities involved in the process. I would like to find out if the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has started working on the logistical modalities and how long it will take to finish putting them in place.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has a board which inspects the vehicles. We are sure that this will be done as soon as possible.

I thank you, Sir.

RESERVE POLICE OFFICERS

319. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the hon. Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many reserve police officers there were countrywide;

(b) how much money was paid as allowances to the reserve police officers from 2009 to date, countrywide; and

(c) how many officers were paid in the period above.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, there were 1,672 police reserve officers countrywide as at 31st October, 2010.

Sir, in 2009, there were no allowances paid out as the budget provision for police reserves was utilised for their training. However, a total sum of K7, 455,800.00 was paid to a total of 508 police reserves as duty allowance countrywide in 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, since no allowances were paid to the reserve police officers in 2009, are they going to be paid, now, in arrears?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, these allowances will not be paid out because, as I indicated, the money which was meant for their allowances was used for other duties.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Captain Moono (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, one of the reasons the Government is relying on the reserve police officers is the shortage of manpower. I would like to know whether the Government has a deliberate policy to recruit a lot of police officers since most youths who completed Grade 12 are roaming the streets and each time there is recruitment, there is pandemonium.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, although that is a new question, I will still answer it by saying that we can only recruit as and when it is necessary.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, may I know what the entitlement of a reserve police officer is every month?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member means by ‘the entitlement of a reserve police officer every month’ …

Hon. Members: Allowances!

Mr Lungu: The question was specifically focusing on the allowances that were paid out.  The question being asked by the hon. Member is a new one.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Aah!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, in rural areas, there are neighbourhood watch groups which are a replica of the reserve police officers. Is the ministry considering assisting them with facilities such as bicycles so that they can effectively carry out their activities?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, obviously, the hon. Member for Mwense is asking a question that is not relevant to the principal question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Chisala (Chilubi) Mr Speaker, may I know the minimum qualification for one to be recruited as a reserve police officer.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member knows that this question is completely outside the main question.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, on the Copperbelt, we have seen an influx of police reserves and most of these are of questionable character. As such, this has contributed to thefts on the Copperbelt. Therefore, what criteria are used to engage police reserves?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, although that is really a new question, …

Laughter

Mr Lungu: … I will attempt to give the hon. Member an answer. The criteria are that of being a good mannered person and the ability to work efficiently in the discharge of duties.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, paying K7 million to 500 police reserves means paying each of them an average of about K15, 000. What is the ministry doing to boost morale among the police reserves so that they do not go out on rampage shooting people?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, as I indicated the last time a similar question was raised, we made proposals to the Salaries Commission. We hope that these are some of the matters that can be looked into.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I hope that this question will be within the parameters of the principal question. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how these allowances for police reserves compare with the daily risk allowances that are paid to regular police officers.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has helped in answering the question by stating that what he is asking is out of context as regards the principal question. Therefore, he has answered his question.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in one of the hon. Minister’s answers, he said that …

Mr Malama: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order and I apologise for interrupting the hon. Member on the Floor. However, I am very much worried. Is the hon. Minister really in order to completely ignore the advice that you have given to this House on the need for the Executive to research or rather consult the technocrats before coming to this House? Therefore, is the hon. Minister in order to not respond to follow-up questions? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Mfuwe is not satisfied with the answers which are being given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. Indeed, my advice has been quite clear that the Executive should be in a position to anticipate possible follow-up questions in order to satisfy the quest for information by the House.

 However, I pay attention to the fact that the principal question has been adequately answered. There have been cases, in the Tenth Parliament, where the hon. Minister would say, “Mr Speaker, I beg your indulgence. I am unable to answer this question. May I go back and do some more research?” Obviously, I would say, “No, it is never done.” However, my guidance to the members of the Executive to make an effort to answer always stands. That is why, sometimes, I would say, “Hon. Minister, do you have a bonus answer?” The word, “bonus” comes from the Latin word, “bonus” meaning “good”. Because you are also good, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … hon. Minister, you should volunteer to answer questions which are even outside what may have been answered in the principal question.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was saying that in one of his answers to a follow-up question, the hon. Minister said that the Government recruited as and when it was necessary. However, in this country, it is always necessary to recruit because we do not have enough police officers. When is the Government going to be serious with its recruitment programme because we need police officers all the time?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, my reference to recruiting when it is necessary relates to the availability of resources.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

FOREIGN EXAMINATIONS BOARDS

320. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education whether the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ):

(a) had been visited by foreign examinations boards in 2008 and 2009; and

(b) had visited foreign examinations boards in the same period.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Dr Kawimbe): Mr Speaker, the ECZ was visited by officers from other examination boards as follows:

(i) in 2008, officers from Malawi National Examination Board and the Examination Council of Swaziland visited the ECZ; and

(ii) in 2009, the ECZ was visited by officers from Malawi National Examinations Board and Kenya National Examinations Council.

Mr Speaker, the council sent officers to other examination boards in the period under review as follows:

(i) in 2008, officers were sent to Malawi National Examinations Board and Kenya National Examinations Council; and

(ii) in 2009, officers were sent to Malawi National Examinations Board and Kenya National Examinations Council.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Deputy Minister be kind enough to spell out what the purpose of the trip was and how much was spent on it.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the purpose was that, as an examination board here in Zambia, we want to make sure that we are on a par with other examination boards in the region. Furthermore, they could be doing certain things better than we are doing them and, therefore, we would like to learn from them so that we enrich ourselves.

Sir, since the question on expenditure is more specific, we would be quite happy to provide the information on how much money was spent on sending the officers to Kenya and Malawi if the hon. Member submitted that question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, what is so special about Malawi and Kenya visiting Zambia and vice-versa?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, all our neighbouring countries are very special and it is really due to budgetary constraints that we cannot visit all of them. Our plan is to continue to visit each other and learn from each other’s experiences. The South-to-South Co-operation is being practised by this Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NDOKI RURAL HEALTH CENTRE RADIO FACILITIES

321. Mr Chota (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Health when radio communication facilities would be provided to the Ndoki Rural Health Centre in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has already installed radio communication facilities in almost all health centres across the Northern Province, including Ndoki Rural Health Centre, in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency. The installation was completed six months ago and the radios are working well.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chota: Mr Speaker, I specifically asked on Ndoki Rural Health Centre because the people who were installing these communication facilities did not reach it. When will these facilities be installed at Ndoki Rural Health Centre?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I also specifically mentioned that installation has been completed at Ndoki Rural Health Centre.

Earlier this morning, I spoke to the district medical officer in Luwingu, who is in charge of Ndoki, and he assured me that the radio is working well.

I thank you, Sir.  

ORPHANS AND VULNERABLE PROGRAMME BURSARIES

322. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Education how many pupils and students had been on bursary support under the Orphans and Vulnerable Programme in 2008 and 2009 at the following levels of the school system:

(i) upper basic;

(ii) high school; and

(iii) tertiary.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, there were 23,009 pupils on bursary support under the Orphans and Vulnerable Programme, in 2008, and 43,031 pupils at basic school level who were on the same programme in 2009.

Mr Speaker, there were 22,425 pupils on bursary support under the Orphans and Vulnerable Programme, in 2008, and 24,907, in 2009, at high school level.

Mr Speaker, there were no students on bursary support under the Orphan and Vulnerable Programme in 2008 and 2009 at tertiary level because, at this level, there is a loan system. The bursary system is a grant. There is no obligation to pay back anything. At tertiary level, the Government offers loans.

Mr Speaker, we realise that children who are orphaned and vulnerable, at high school level do not necessarily become less vulnerable at tertiary level. This is why this considerate and caring Government provides 100 per cent loans to students deemed vulnerable and 75 per cent loans to students whose parents, we believe, have some capacity to contribute to the tertiary education of their children.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, in 2008 and 2009, there was a reduction in the number of pupils progressing from basic education to high school. What happened to the children who were given bursary support at upper basic, but were not on bursary at high school? May I know why there is this disparity in the figures?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, in this country we have a pyramid kind of education. This means that as we go up the educational ladder, there are fewer places available and this is where the number of dropouts comes from. However, because of this hardworking hon. Minister of Education, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Kawimbe: …under the able leadership of President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, we have expanded the number of school places. We will see an increase in the number of school places available at high school and the number of students benefiting will be greater. This apparent reduction, therefore, is just a reflection of the structure of our educational system, which we are trying to expand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in rural areas, pupils at any of the first two levels of education in the principal question do not access bursary support. Could the hon. Minister be kind enough to tell us, exactly, which office should be approached if one wants to access these funds?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, these funds are channeled through the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. This is the right office to approach.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that students at tertiary level are given loans. I would like to find out if there are any plans to go beyond the two universities and also consider colleges like Evelyn Hone and other institutions.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I should have asked the hon. Minister of Education to explain to those listening the meaning of tertiary in terms of education.

May you, please, answer.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, I will begin with your very wise guidance. Tertiary education refers to any education beyond Grade 12. It does not necessarily refer to university education, but any college of higher learning like nursing or agriculture.

Mr Speaker, we do realise that there is a great hunger for tertiary education. At this point, within the ministry, we are looking at ways of expanding the loan facility not only to students going to public institutions, but also those learning with private institutions. Every Zambian should be able to take these loans to any institution of higher learning.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what mechanism this Government is employing to recover the loans given at tertiary level.

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, I am sure that hon. Members of Parliament have been following the debate that has been going on in terms of sustainable financing of higher education in many countries like the United Kingdom (UK), United States of America (USA) and even Zambia.

However, here, in Zambia, the Ministry of Education is trying to put in place a tracer system that will ensure that students who are supported by the Government to higher education pay back the money so that the future generations will also continue using that money for higher education.

Sir, I wish to inform this House that we have been quite challenged, for a while, and this is an issue that is beyond the Ministry of Education. Nevertheless, we appreciate the efforts that are being made by the Ministry of Home Affairs by providing single identity cards. In future, this will help the Ministry of Education put in place a tracer system that will ensure that, once a student completes his/her education, whether it is at a university or college, or even students who have been supported outside Zambia for further education, he/she can be traced when he/she comes back, wherever he/she is within or outside Zambia. This will assist in paying back this revolving fund so that the Government is not just putting money in a hole, but ensuring that money for the future generations is always there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I have no doubt that this self-praising hardworking hon. Deputy Minister anticipated this question. However, could he indicate to this House how many students at the tertiary level on the loan scheme are orphaned? I am sure he anticipated this question.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, in fact, I could benefit from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata’s wisdom. I am not sure at what age a child who is orphaned stops being an orphan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Aah!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

KONKOLA COPPER MINES PLC

323. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a) why Konkola Copper Mines PLC (KCM) postponed its listing on the London Stock Exchange (LSE); and

(b) what the benefits of listing the company on the LSE would be to both KCM and the nation.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, the board of Konkola Resources PLC decided to postpone the listing of the company on the LSE due to some uncertainty in the macroeconomic environment in Europe in 2010.

This uncertainty was, in part, caused by recent events in one of the European countries which caused markets to fear that the European wide debt crisis makes any European government more likely to default. The company will announce to the public any new developments regarding the listing in due course.

Sir, the listing of KCM PLC on the LSE would offer the following benefits for the company, its employees and the Zambian public:

(i) creating an opportunity to increase brand awareness of the company products and augment the company’s corporate standing;

(ii) such a profile will provide an opportunity to attract blue-chip investment funds and give the country’s mining sector greater recognition as a destination for international capital; and

(iii) the capital raised through the listing would facilitate expansion programmes, create more employment opportunities for Zambians, and result in wealth creation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place to encourage companies list on the LSE?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the action taken by KCM to list on the LSE was motivated by its desire to raise approximately US$1 billion for the various expansion programmes that it will undertake. As a Government, we are encouraging companies that are looking for huge capital to list on stock exchanges outside Zambia.

I thank, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member is not in the House. Question 324 has lapsed.

SCIENCE LABOROTARIES IN MWINILUNGA

325. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Education when construction of science laboratories at the following schools in Mwinilunga East Parliamentary Constituency would be completed and equipped with science apparatus:

(i) Ntambu;

(ii) Nyangombe; and

(iii) Lunga.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the science laboratory at Ntambu High School is in use for science lessons though there are some minor works yet to be completed. The laboratory is equipped with basic apparatus.

Sir, a 1 x 3 laboratory block at Nyangombe is completed and is in use. There is one laboratory at Lunga which is used for science lessons.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, the laboratories I am talking about are not equipped to date because, in 2007, the ministry promised that …

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Katuka: May I know when these laboratories will be equipped and fully furnished?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, allow me to provide the following background. We have come from a past where basic schools have been upgraded to high schools and these three schools fit into that category. As a ministry, we discovered that upgrading basic schools to high schools is not a satisfactory path. This is why we have come up with a policy, within the ministry, to purposely build high schools. Therefore, all the thirty-five new high schools being built across the country will be purpose built with all the facilities in place.

However, we have challenges in some of these historical high schools that are in a difficult process of being upgraded. As a ministry, we will do our best to ensure that these historical high schools have all the facilities in place. For example, at Lunga High School, there is only one classroom block, and yet they need a 1 x 3 classroom block. So, they need an additional classroom block for science.

Sir, these newly-built laboratories face challenges of consumables that need to be replenished all the time. Sometimes, we must make a distinction between providing the consumables such as chemicals and the supplies that need to be used and differentiate them from the apparatus which is a one-time investment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

EXAMINATION CENTRE NUMBERS

326. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education how many schools in the categories below had no examination centre numbers in the Northern and Copperbelt provinces:

(a) middle basic;

(b) upper basic; and

(c) high.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, schools without examination centre numbers in the Copperbelt and Northern provinces are as follows:

Province Middle Basic Upper Basic High School

Copperbelt 92 23 05

Northern  131 51 09

Total  223 74 14

Mr Speaker, there are 223 middle basic schools on the Copperbelt and Northern provinces without examination centre numbers as I have indicated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state the root cause for his ministry’s failure to allocate examination centre numbers to the learning institutions.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the most important criterion for allocating an examination centre number is that there has to be secure facilities. You need a strong room to ensure that the examination papers are secure. In fact, all the new schools that are being built have an in-built strong room. There is no problem, whatsoever, with the new schools, but we have challenges with older schools which do not have facilities for a strong room to secure the examination papers.

Mr Speaker, all the hon. Members of this House will agree with me that we have been challenged with the problem of examination leakages which we are putting under control. Recently, when we reviewed the leakages from, for instance, last year’s examinations, we discovered that they occurred in the examination centres without strong room facilities.

Mr Speaker, this is a major drawback but, fortunately, it does not involve the new schools being built because these are coming with strong rooms. We have a challenge in older schools and I would like to appeal to hon. Members that when we get the K700,000,000 Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we should take a bit of that money towards the provision of strong rooms to facilitate the allocation of examination centre numbers.

I thank you, Sir.

Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, we heard that, in the Northern Province, some schools have no examination centre numbers and that, during examinations, pupils have to relocate to schools which have them in order to write an examination. These pupils are subjected to a lot of inconveniences which may lead to them failing the examination. What immediate plans does the Government have to alleviate these problems by providing facilities other than the CDF?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I find the reference to the CDF by the hon. Member surprising because the whole purpose of this fund is for the constituencies to solve some of the immediate problems.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, if an hon. Member is interested in alleviating the problems of the people he has been elected to serve, it would be of interest to ensure that some of this money goes to the schools as an immediate step. These are Government funds and the public out there should know that fact. They should also know that the resources are not for an Opposition hon. Member and that the money is there to deal with immediate problems in the constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I believe that any self-serving hon. Member, who wishes to be elected, will take an interest in education institutions to ensure that there are strong rooms there. The hon. Member can also use community radio stations to inform members of the community or constituency that it is in their interest to ensure that the pupils, teachers and parents are not involved in examination malpractices.

Mr Speaker, we do realise, as a ministry, that most parents are pressured to get involved in these malpractices because of lack of places for children, especially at Grade 10. This is why, as a Government, we are continuing to place a premium on education. By 2012, we will construct 100 high schools. Currently, sixty-five are under construction.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we have continued to engage our teachers on the need to know that it is also in their interest to ensure that they safeguard their profession and do not get involved in examination malpractices. That is why, at an appropriate time, we will bring to this House legislation relating to the code of conduct of teachers. We are taking steps towards that. It is my hope that hon. Members will recognise that the people we are serving are citizens of this country and the money is theirs.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I am taken aback.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: Why is it that even in schools where we have strong rooms, we have heard of examination leakages?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, clearly, a strong room will prevent an unauthorised entry and access to examination papers, but it will not prevent an unprofessional teacher from tampering with examination papers. So, providing a strong room is just part of the solution. This is why the hon. Minister is bringing legislation to this House to provide guidelines on what we expect of a professionally trained teacher. This will be the code of conduct for teachers.

Mr Speaker, our aim is to bring the malpractices to an end. We have zero tolerance to examination leakages and the provision of strong rooms is just part of that equation. We will not let people with access to the papers become a source of examination leakages.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members of the Executive, it is not in order for you to make mention or reference to future legislation. There are pitfalls to this.

TREE REPLANTING

327. Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West) (on behalf of Mr Imenda (Lukulu East), asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources whether the Government compelled timber merchants to re-plant trees in their areas of operation and, if so, how many trees had been re-planted from January to December, 2009 and in which area.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, timber concessionaires (merchants) are compelled to replant trees in their areas of operations when the area is a planted forest. At present, there are only two companies that have concessions for commercial forest plantations managed by the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporatiom Limited (ZAFFICO). These are the Copperbelt Forestry Company (CFC) and Wood Processing Limited (WPL), which have 800 hectares and 1,000 hectares of forest plantation concession areas, respectively.

The companies are compelled to replant, every year, in order to replace the trees that have been clearly felled. In 2009, the CFC planted an area of 238 hectares (158 hectares in Kalibu and eighty hectares in Kafubu) translating to about 300,000 trees planted while the WPL planted forty-five hectares in Ndola, thus planting 58,500 trees. Furthermore, ZAFFICO planted a total of 1,548,000 trees in its plantations, translating into 1,290 hectares. Therefore, the total number of trees planted by these companies was 1,906,500, representing 1,580 hectares. On the other hand, timber concessionaires who operate in indigenous forests are not compelled to replant trees, but rather to promote natural regeneration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Speaker, may I know the survival rate for the trees planted.

Mr Namugala: Mr Speaker, the tree planting season is between 15th December to 15th January of the following year and this is because we want to take advantage of the rainy season. The survival rate in this case is above 80 per cent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is open to the prospect of giving other companies concessions other than the two companies which the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, there is a process which the Government follows. As we have indicated, there are concessions which are fully operational at the moment. We do not have any difficulties with the current concession holders. When the time comes for us to reconsider these concessions, we will certainly take your concerns into account.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ZAMBIA NATIONAL OIL COMPANY

328. Mr Mwango asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) when the Government would pay the former employees of the Zambia National Oil Company their terminal benefits;

(b) how many employees were yet to be paid; and

(c) how much money was owed to the former employees.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that all former employees of the Zambia National Oil Company (in liquidation), except for the former chief executive whose matter is before the courts, were paid preferential amounts on 18th April, 2002 by the liquidator in accordance with Section 346 of the Companies Act, Cap. 388 of the Laws of Zambia. However, the former employees of the Zambia National Oil Company have taken the company to court claiming unpaid salary arrears …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, just before business was suspended, I was saying that the former employees of the Zambia National Oil Company have, however, taken the company to court claiming unpaid salary arrears as well as redundancy benefits and that the matter is still before the courts of law.

Madam Speaker, unsecured amounts will be paid to the former employees subject to the availability of funds to be distributed to all unsecured creditors on a pro rata basis. As indicted above, all the former employees, except the one who was the chief executive officer whose case is before the courts, have been paid their preferential entitlements as provided for in the Companies Act.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

____________ {mospagebreak}

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE ENGLUSH LAW (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2011

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, the English Law (Extent of Application Amendment) Bill, 2011 seeks to amend the English Law Extent of Application Act, Cap. 11 of the Laws of Zambia, by revising the application of the Supreme Court practice rules of England.

Madam Speaker, as a protectorate, Northern Rhodesia, now known as the Republic of Zambia, was governed under a dual system of laws namely; domestic laws and the laws of England. However, there was an uncertainty as to which extent the law of England applied to Zambia. Therefore, the English Law (Extent of Application) Act was enacted so as to declare the extent to which the laws of England apply to Zambia.

Currently, the law makes provision for the Supreme Court practice rules of England in force up to 1999 to apply in their entirety to Zambia. This places the Supreme Court practice rules of England on the same level and with equal force as statutes and domestic laws applicable to Zambia. This has been criticised by the Zambian Supreme Court and there is a need, therefore, to rectify this anomaly. The Supreme Court practice rules should only apply where there is default in our own rules.

Madam Speaker, the Supreme Court practice rules of England, 1999, provide for the practice and procedure in the Supreme Court of England.

Madam Speaker, the Bill seeks to declare the extent of application of English Law in Zambia. The Bill thus proposes that the English Law applicable in Zambia be the common law, the doctrines of equity, the statutes in force in England after 17th August, 1911 and any other statutes passed in England after 17th August, 1911 which apply or will apply to the Republic of Zambia by virtue of an Act of Parliament. This Bill will achieve the objective of rectifying the anomaly that has already been pointed out.

Madam Speaker, the significance of 17th August, 1911, is that it is the day the Northern Rhodesia Order in Council of 1911 commenced.

Madam Speaker, the Bill is not controversial. It is timely and progressive. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members of this august House to support it.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, in presenting your Committee’s report on this Bill, let me raise some pertinent issues relating to the background of this matter.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that Section 2 of the English Law (Extent of Application) Act, Cap. 11 of the Laws of Zambia, provides for the application of English laws in Zambian matrimonial causes and the Supreme Court practice rules of England (the White Book). The White Book provides for practice and procedure in civil matters. The enactment of Act No. 14 of 2002 meant that the Supreme Court practice rules of England until 1999 had the force of law in Zambia, subject to the provisions of the Constitution of Zambia and any other written law. It was notable that the White Book consisted two volumes: one containing procedure and the other containing English statutes that underpinned and reinforced the procedure set out in the first volume. Therefore, the effect of the application of the White Book, in Zambia, in its entirety, was that not only English practice and procedure, but also English statutes were imported into the Zambian laws. This position has been confirmed in terms of judicial interpretation by the Supreme Court of Zambia.

Further, following enactment by the Zambian Parliament of the Matrimonial Causes Act, No. 20 of 2007, it became necessary to amend the English Law (Extent of Application) Act so that the Zambian courts could apply the Matrimonial Causes Act, No. 20 of 2007. In a nutshell, the wholesale application of the White Book to Zambia has had the effect of creating uncertainty in the applicability of many English statues and procedures set out in it thus casting doubt over the sovereign power of the Zambian State, through its Parliament, to decide on individual laws to include in the country’s statute book, which laws should be tailored for the peculiarities of the Zambian situation.

Madam Speaker, the above notwithstanding, there is a need for the Zambian courts to continue to have access to English practice and procedure, albeit in a restricted manner in that they may fall back on the White Book only to the extent that the Zambian High Court rules do not have a provision to deal with a particular aspect of a matter before the courts. As the law currently stands, the application of the White Book in Zambia has rendered the Zambian High Court rules redundant as, in practice, the White Book has been applied whether or not there is a gap in the Zambian rules.

Madam Speaker, with this background in mind, your Committee notes that the amendments seek to clarify the extent of application of English Law to Zambia. Thus, the English Law in force in Zambia shall be the common law, the doctrines of equity, the statutes in force in England on the 17th August, 1911, and any other statutes passed in England after 17th August, 1911 which apply or shall apply to the Republic of Zambia by virtue of an Act of Parliament.

The significance of the date 17th August, 1911 is that it is the day the Northern Rhodesia Order in Council commenced.

Madam Speaker, your Committee notes that this amendment is timely in view of the need for Zambia to increasingly utilise home-grown laws. Further, your Committee wishes to express its serious concern with regard to the fact that, despite being independent and sovereign for over forty-five years, it is still necessary for the Zambian legal system to be dependent on foreign laws. This is unacceptable and your Committee implores the Ministry of Justice to urgently address this matter. This notwithstanding, your Committee hails the amendment as progressive and strongly recommends that it be supported by the House.

Madam Speaker, your Committee wishes to thank you for affording it an opportunity to scrutinise the English Law (Extent of Application) Bill, 2011. It also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support and advice it rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Your Committee is further indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary submissions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank the Chairperson and Members of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters for their work and I also thank the entire House for their support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 15th March, 2011.

 

THE HIGH COURT (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the Supreme Court (Amendment) Bill, 2011 seeks to amend the High Court Act, Cap. 20 of the Laws of Zambia by revising the application of the Supreme Court Certificate rules of England.

Currently, the law makes provision for the Supreme Court practice rules of England in force up to 1999 to apply in their entirety in Zambia and not in default of practice and procedure provided for under the Laws of Zambia.

However, the intention of the law is to provide for the practice and procedure applicable to the Supreme Court of England in force up to 1999 only to apply in Zambia where there is no rule of practice and procedure under the laws of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, by virtue of this amendment Bill, the Supreme Court practice rules of England in force up to 1999 shall only be applicable where there are no applicable rules of practice and procedure under the Zambian law.

Madam Speaker, this is not a controversial Bill. It is timely and progressive and I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this august House to support it.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, allow me to highlight a few salient issues with regard to the Bill under consideration. By way of background, let me point out that the following enactment by the Zambian Parliament of the Matrimonial Causes Act No. 20 of 2007, it became necessary for other relevant statutes such as the High Court Act to be amended in order to bring them in conformity with this development. Further, currently, the High Court Act provides that the Civil Court Practice 1999 (Green Book) applies to Zambia where there is no provision for any particular point of procedure and practice. In addition, the current High Court Act makes the Supreme Court Practice Rules (White Book) of England applicable to Zambia in its entirety. As a result of the foregoing, there has been a lack of clarity as to the extent of applicability in Zambia of the English practice rules, particularly in matrimonial causes.

Madam Speaker, your Committee noted that the Bill seeks to provide for the practice and procedure applicable in the Supreme Courts of England in force up to December, 1999, to apply in Zambia in the absence of the rule of practice and procedure under the laws of Zambia. It also seeks to amend Section 11 of the High Court Act by deleting sub section 1 so that the jurisdiction of the High Court in divorce and matrimonial causes will no longer be exercised in substantial conformity with the law and practice in force in England, but will now be exercised in conformity with the High Court Act, the Matrimonial Causes Act of 2007 or any other written law. In the absence of the rule of practice and procedure, in Zambia, the practice and procedure applicable in the Supreme Court of England in force up to 31st December, 1999, will apply.

Your Committee supports the proposed amendment to the High Court Act as they will have the effect of updating and streamlining the provisions of the Act with regard to practice and procedure of the court and complementing the proposed amendment to the English Law (Extent of Application) Act, Cap. 11 of the Laws of Zambia. However, your Committee wishes to call upon the Ministry of Justice to expeditiously undertake a comprehensive review of the Zambian law in order to address its inadequacies so that the country does not have to continue relying on foreign provision.

Your Committee agrees with the stakeholders that there is a need for Zambia to increasingly utilise home-grown law. Your Committee, therefore, supports the amendments in the Bill as they are progressive. Further, it strongly recommends that the amendments be supported by the House.

Your Committee wishes to thank you, Madam, for affording it an opportunity to scrutinise the High Court (Amendment) Bill, 2011. It also thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support and advice rendered to it throughout its deliberation.

Your Committee is further indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary submissions.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I want to thank your Committee and note its recommendation for the Ministry of Justice to carry out a comprehensive review of Zambian laws in order to address inadequacies so that the country does not continue relying on foreign laws.

I thank you, Madam.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House

Committee stage on Tuesday, 15th March, 2011.

THE SUPREME COURT (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the Supreme Court (Amendment) Bill, 2011 seeks to amend the Supreme Court Act, Cap. 225 of the Laws of Zambia by revising the application of Supreme Court practice rules of England.

Currently, the law makes provision for the Supreme Court practice rules of England in force up to 1999 to apply in their entirety in Zambia and not in default of practice and procedure provided for under the laws of Zambia.

However, the intention of the law is to provide for the practice and procedure applicable to the Supreme Court of England in force up to 1999, only, to apply in Zambia where there is no rule of procedure under the laws of Zambia.

Madam, by virtue of this amendment, the Supreme Court practice rules of England in force up to 1999 shall not be applicable to Zambian law where there are no applicable rules of practice and procedure under the laws of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this Bill is non-controversial. It is timely and progressive and I, therefore, urge all our hon. Members of the august House to support it.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me prefix my statement with some background information on the Bill before this august House today.

Madam Speaker, the House will recall that the Zambian Parliament enacted the Matrimonial Causes Act in 2007. However, other relevant statutes have since not been amended to bring them in conformity with this development. Further, currently, the Supreme Court Act provides that the Civil Court Practice 1999 (Green Book) applies to Zambia where there is no provision for any particular point of practice and procedure. Because of this, some questions have been asked about the extent of applicability in Zambia of the English Practice Rules, particularly in matrimonial causes.

The Bill seeks to repeal Section 8 of the Supreme Court Act and replace it with a new Section 8 which provides for the practice and procedure applicable in the Supreme Courts of England in force up to 31st December, 1999, to apply in Zambia in the absence of a rule of practice and procedure under the Laws of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, your Committee strongly supports the amendment, noting that it will contribute to the increased utilisation of home-grown law. Your Committee, however, wishes to place on record its concern over the fact that Zambia continues to be dependent on foreign law to date. Your Committee implores the Ministry of Justice to address this as a matter of urgency

Your Committee wishes to put on record its gratitude to you, Madam Speaker, for affording it an opportunity to scrutinise the Supreme Court (Amendment) Bill, 2011. It also wishes to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support and advice rendered to it throughout its deliberations.

Your Committee is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary submissions. I also want to thank the Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, Hon. Kalombo Mwansa, for congratulating us, as a Committee led by a learned colleague.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, I want to, once again, thank the Committee led by my honourable colleague and the entire House for the support.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 15th March, 2011.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in 
the Chair]

THE MANAGEMENT SERVICES BOARD (Repeal) BILL, 2011

Clauses, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE ZAMBIA INSTITUTE OF ADVANCED LEGAL EDUCATION (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_____________________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Management Services Board (Repeal) Bill, 2011

The Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (Amendment) Bill, 2011

Third Readings on Tuesday, 15th March, 2011.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Urban and Regional Planners Bill, 2010

___________________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______________

The House adjourned at 1135 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 15th March, 2011.

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

LIMULUNGA POLICE POST

324. Mr Milupi (Luena) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when the Limulunga Police Post in Luena Parliamentary Constituency would be upgraded to a police station; and

(b) whether the Government had plans to relocate the police post to a more spacious site.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Limulunga Community Police Post, in Luena Constituency, is one of the police posts being considered for upgrading to a grade ‘C’ police station once the Zambia Police Service concludes the review of its current establishment of police stations and posts.

Sir, the Ministry of Home Affairs has plans not only to relocate the police post to a more spacious site, but also have a new police station and camp built in the area once funds are available. This will enable the police post meet the status of a police station.

I thank you, Sir.