DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 1st June, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____________
 
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ROAD REHABILITATION IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

427. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the following roads in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated:

(i) Chalabesa/Kabinga;

(ii) Kopa/Ncubula; and

(iii) T2/Chiundaponde;

(b) what the cost of rehabilitating each of the roads above was; and

(c) what the time-frame for completing each road was.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is desirous of carrying out maintenance of the 80 km of the Chalabesa/Kabinga Road. The road has not received any maintenance for several years because of inadequate funding. Before adequate funds are mobilised to maintain this road, the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) will be used to maintain the worst stretches of the road.

Mr Speaker, the 40 km of Kopa/Ncubula Road is in a poor condition. The road has not received any maintenance for several years. The Ministry of Works and Supply has intentions of rehabilitating the road, but due to funding constraints, no works have been carried out. In the meantime, equipment from the RRU will be used to maintain the worst stretches of the road.

The Ministry of Works and Supply, through the RDA, has provided an amount of K2 billion in the 2011 Annual Work Plan for the periodic maintenance of the T2/Chiundaponde Road. The RDA is currently preparing bidding documents for the periodic maintenance of the 70-km T2/Chiundaponde Road. It is expected that works may start between July and August, 2011.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of carrying out periodic maintenance on the Chalabesa/Kabinga Road is about K10 billion; Kopa/Ncubula Road, K5 billion and T2/Chiundaponde Road, K10 billion.

Mr Speaker, if funds are made available, the estimated duration of completing the works on the Chalabesa/Kabinga Road is eight months; Kopa/Ncubula Road, four months and T2/Chiundaponde Road, eight months.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, last year, the RDA released about K500 million towards Chiundaponde Road. May I know where this money has gone.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, for these works to be done, the ministry requires quite a lot of money. This is why the ministry has decided to mobilise more resources, this year, to commence work on this road because the K500 million was by far inadequate to do anything.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has informed this House that the Chalabesa/Kabinga and T2/Chiundaponde roads will be done this year. Have these two roads been budgeted for and, if so, how much?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, the Deputy Minister has indicated that there is no budgetary provision in this year’s budget for the Chalabesa/Kabinga Road. However, there is some money under the RRU in the Northern Province and the works on the worst stretches of the road are being considered.

As regards the T2/Chiundaponde Road, there is a provision of K2 billion in the budget and works will commence between July and August, this year.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether he does not feel ashamed that his Government continues to do cosmetic maintenance to roads when there are elections as was the case with T2/Chiundaponde Road when there was a by-election after the demise of the late Hon. Kanyanyamina. Do you not feel ashamed?

Mr Speaker: Order! That word is not correct for this House. It is not used in this House.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word “ashamed”. Do you not feel that there is everything wrong with your making cosmetic arrangements of repairing roads when there are by-elections?

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the Government does not stop working whether there are elections or not.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Therefore, Mr Speaker, since we are a Government of the people, I do not think people will stop complaining just because there are elections. So, we will do everything possible provided there is a complaint. If we have the resources, we will do the works.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, the T2/Chiundaponde is a very viable road. Does this ministry not think that the K2 billion allocated will not be enough to work on the road?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, we are aware that this road is very important. The K2 billion that is provided for is according to the engineer’s estimates. Should it be proven that the funds are inadequate, we shall still find the money to make sure that this road is made passable. That is why this is a Government of the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, since all district councils have been appointed as agents for the RDA, may I learn from the hon. Minister how much has been disbursed to Mpika District Council so that it can work on the roads mentioned in this question?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the appointment of local authorities as road agents does not necessarily mean that they have to be given money to work on roads. They are involved in the planning process of the rehabilitation of the said roads. For instance, at the moment, we have directed all provincial RRU engineers to work with the respective local authorities with a view to draw up the work plans as a result of the funds that were budgeted for under the provincial administration. This does not necessarily mean that the local authorities should receive the funds from the Government in order for them to work on the roads. The local authorities also have their own budgets. The Government provides technical experts while local authorities are agents. Therefore, we shall work with them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, when will the roads in Chief Luchembe’s area, in Kanchibiya, be worked on, especially the part where the resettlement scheme is located?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I do not know the roads the hon. Member is referring to because I am not very familiar with Chief Luchembe’s area.

However, he is free to liaise with the Mpika District Council, which is our road agent, to consider what is in the area he is talking about.

I thank you, Sir.

FOREIGNERS’ LAND ALLOCATION

428. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Lands why foreigners were allocated larger tracts of land compared to Zambians.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for this question because it gives the Government an opportunity to clarify the position of foreigners owning land in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the Lands Act Cap. 184 of the laws of Zambia under Section 3 (3) (a-k), allows foreigners to own land. The circumstances under which land can be alienated to non-Zambians are as follows:-

(i) where the non-Zambian is a permanent resident in the Republic of Zambia;

(ii) where the non-Zambian is an investor within the meaning of the Investment Act or any other law relating to the promotion of investment in Zambia; Cap. 385

(iii) where the non-Zambian has obtained the President’s consent in writing under his hand;

(iv) where the non-Zambian is a company registered under the Companies Act, and less than twenty-five per cent of the issued shares are owned by non-Zambians, Cap. 388;

(v) where the non-Zambian is a statutory corporation created by an Act of Parliament;

(vi) where the non-Zambian is a co-operative registered under the Co-operative Societies Act and less than twenty-five per cent of the members are non-Zambian, Cap. 397:

(vii)  where the non-Zambian is a body registered under the Land (Perpetual Succession) Act and is non-profit making, charitable, religious, educational or philanthropic organisation or institution which is registered and is approved by the Minister for the purposes of this section; Cap. 186;

(viii) where the interest or right in land is being inherited upon death or is being transferred under a right of survivorship or by operation of law;

(ix) where the non-Zambian is a commercial bank registered under the Companies Act and the Banking and Financial Services Act or Cap. 388;  or

(x) where the non-Zambian is granted a concession or right under the National and Wildlife Act Cap. 201.

Mr Speaker, it is not true that foreigners are allocated larger tracts of land compared to Zambians. In other words, there are some foreigners who have tracts of land in keeping with the law, but it is not true that such foreigners have larger tracts of land compared to Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I wanted to know why large tracts of land are given to foreigners when many retirees do not have land.

The Minister of Lands (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member of Parliament was not paying attention. Non-Zambians are given land within the confines of the laws of Zambia.

As for retirees, it depends on the areas they come from. It does not mean that we do not give them land as the hon. Member has said. In fact, Mr Speaker, I think that the question has not been fairly tackled.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Lands, I would like her to explain to this House who owns the biggest chunk of land between Zambians and foreigners. Have you ever dared to take stock of who owns larger tracts of land?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Yakosa!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, according to our records, the people who own large tracts of land are Zambians and not foreigners. I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament is looking at the colour of the skin. We have people who the hon. Member might have considered non-Zambian on the basis of the colour of their skin who are, in fact, Zambians by birth or citizenship.

Mr Lubinda: Non-Zambians who are Zambians?

Ms Lundwe: Yes!

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member thinks it is about the colour of the skin. However, the Government does not consider the colour of people’s skin, but the fact that those people have the right mandate in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether asking for huge sums of money that the local people cannot afford, like in the case of US$500,000 that is being asked for in the Serenje Farming Block, does not disadvantage Zambians. Do you not think that this is a way of segregating against the Zambians who do not have that kind of capital that you want?

Mr Mabenga stood up to answer.

Hon. Opposition Members: No, the Minister has already stood up.

Mr Sichilima: You have never been in Government!

Interruptions

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, it is surprising to hear that we are charging huge sums of money. However, if the hon. Member is sincere, he should know that the councils are the ones charging such amounts. In most cases …

Interruptions

Ms Lundwe: … we have had cases where councils are charging half a billion kwacha in order for people to acquire land.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I want to ask my question based on my understanding of ownership of land which means being backed by a title deed. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether he concedes to the idea that the current legislation that he quoted, today, regarding ownership of land is ultra vires to the existence of indigenous Zambians as it does a lot of harm to their social and economic well-being.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, there is no conflict at all. All that we are doing is to follow what was enacted by this Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Captain Moono (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what plans the Government has on the big chunks of land that are owned by foreigners, for example, 300, 000 acres that is only used to keep four horses.

Laughter

Captain Moono: Is there any plan to repossess this land and redistribute it to Zambians who are suffering?

Hon. Opposition Member: Thank you Captain!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, once we are aware that this person, regardless of who it is, has not developed that land, it is the responsibility of the Ministry of Lands to repossess it. We do not segregate at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, for the hon. Minister to be able to state categorically that indigenous Zambians have land which is commensurate with the land that is owned by non-Zambians, she ought to produce empirical evidence …

Mr Speaker: Order! You are debating. Do you have a question?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, may I find out when the Ministry of Lands will complete the exercise of conducting a land audit which will provide the evidence that this House requires in assuring it that, indeed, Zambians own land which is equal to the land owned by non-Zambians.

Mr Kambwili: Galaun!

Mr Muntanga: Galaun!

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, land audit is an on-going exercise. Once we have concluded this, we will be able to come up with something. However, let me state that when you audit land for repossession, people move on site and start the construction works immediately. In this regard, it is very difficult for us to conclude works on time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, countrywide, Municipal and District councils have made payments to the ministry in order to have the plots numbered as far back as three to five years, but the ministry has done nothing. What is the ministry doing to serve Zambians so that they develop these plots?

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member must not speak in parables. He must mention a specific area so that it is brought to our attention.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, issues of trade and land have caused wars in the past. Between the words indigene and indigenous, one is a noun and the other an adjective. Could the hon. Minister tell me why land cannot be given to indigenous people, but to a supposedly non-ethnic person in these areas?

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, our laws do not segregate. We are giving this land to the non-Zambians as well as the indigenous Zambians. I think that we are doing the right thing.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, in Kanyama Constituency, we have a land called Baobab? This land was advertised and indigenous Zambians responded to that advertisement. However, their applications were cancelled and the land was given to a foreign company. Can the hon. Minister explain the rationale that was used to arrive at that decision?

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, I am unable to comment on that issue because it is a case in court.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state whether it is not true that a lot of land is acquired by Zambians, but that they later secretly transfer it to foreigners.

Interruptions

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for assisting us with that answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, when the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) was going into privatisation, this Government promised the workers that they would be given some farm land. May I find out how far that issue has gone.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, this seems to be a new question because I never made such pronouncements and neither did the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Lands what happens to land when the ninety-nine year lease elapses.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lundwe: Mr Speaker, that is also a new question. However, the person who owns that land can re-apply for it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

TELEVISION LICENCE FEES

429. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services:

(a) how much money, in the form of television (TV) licence fees, had been collected by the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) from inception to date; and

(b) how this money had been utilised.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Ms Cifire): Mr Speaker, TV Levy was initially introduced in Zambia as TV Licence Fee. However, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (Amendment) Act, 2010 led to changes in the name to TV Levy, the current identification. The first collection by the ZNBC occurred in the Financial Year ending 31st March, 2004. Since that time, K40 billion has been raised and used up during the last Financial Year ending 31st March, 2011 as indicated below. 

Table of year on year TV Levy Collections

Year  Amount collected
  (K)

2004 1,507, 434, 000

2005 6, 058, 970, 000

2006 5, 167, 614, 000

2007 4, 490, 741, 000
 
2008 4, 847, 796, 000

2009 5, 412, 205, 000

2010 6, 034, 028, 000

2011 6, 709, 687, 000

 Total 40, 228, 475, 000

Mr Speaker, the use of the collected levy has mainly been for capital and operational expenses, including the purchase of transmitters, office equipment, payment of motor vehicle insurance, repair and maintenance of motor vehicles, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) utility bills, procurement of cameras, stationery and content acquisition as indicated in the table below.

Working Capital Contribution

Item Amount in K

Operational Stabilisation including staff cost 8, 899, 503, 000

Content Acquisition 7, 318, 864, 000

Motor Vehicle Insurance, Repair and Maintenance 5, 152, 607, 000

Statutory and Deceased Estates 3, 233, 173, 000

Publicity/Promotions/Tours 2, 385, 683, 000

ZESCO Bills 2, 331, 687, 000

Stationery and printing 701, 976, 000

Subtotal 30, 023, 493, 000

 

Capital Expenditure Contribution

Item Amount
  (K)

Transmitters and VTR spares 5,280,843,000

Computers, printers and office equip 2,227,626,000

Furniture 1,726,040,000

Procurement of cameras 969,572,000

Subtotal 10,204,982,000

Mr Speaker, the total expenditure comes to K40, 228,475,000 and leaving no balance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker is it possible to use some of the money from the TV licence to up-grade the institution because it looks very inferior in comparison to the beautiful buildings surrounding it.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, as indicated earlier, some money has been released for operations as well as stabilising staff costs and other issues, including maintenance. Part of this money will be utilised to make the place look acceptable by modern standards.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services why educational programming is costly when it is the taxpayers’ children that are benefiting from these programmes. Is it not possible to give them a concessionary rate?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the idea of any utility is for it to run and make profit. This is the only way an institution can be run in a professional manner. Educational matters are budgeted for by the Ministry of Education, which has ably done this to ensure that such issues are made available in terms of broadcasting.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, from a funding perspective, as seen from the amounts collected from tax payers, the ZNBC is for all intents and purposes a public institution. I would, therefore, like to find out from the hon. Minister why it is that it is used as a propaganda tool for a political party, the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), …

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: …at the exclusion of other interest groups and political parties that are blacked out, and if they are aired, it is done so in the negative? Why is this so?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the ZNBC is a public media institution …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Cifire: …whose basic principle is to report truth.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the basic principle is to report truth, be objective and practise fair play.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: This is precisely what the ZNBC does. 
 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Therefore, if the ZNBC engaged in any direction towards untruths and other things would not be acting professionally.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I am most grateful.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I would like to learn from the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services whether she has bothered to investigate why most Zambian viewers have continuously requested for the removal of the TV Levy paid to the ZNBC.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, it is nice to have a fertile imagination.

Laughter

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, if we went by every pronouncement made by what democracy has declared, then, I am sure that we would not be able to have anything.  It is not possible for the law to be changed towards the inclination of one not wanting something. 

Mr Speaker, this House enacted the TV Levy. The hon. Member of Parliament that has been privy to work in this institution and having understood the problems that warranted the creation of the TV Levy should support it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: I wonder what kind of lawmaker he is …

Laughter

Ms Cifire: … and whether he should continue sitting there being one.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to hear from …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Ntundu: … the hon. Minister whether the speculations that we hear …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Ntundu: … out of all this …

Mr Speaker: Order! There is no speculation in this House.  Do you have a factual question?

Mr Ntundu: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister whether it is true that, any time from now, the ZNBC is actually changing its name to Banda TV MMD.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Is it true? I want to know.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member will withdraw that question right away.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You shall withdraw that question right away.

Mr Ntundu: I withdraw the question, Sir. Let me ask it properly.

Mr Speaker: No. Order!

The hon. Member for Kabushi may proceed with his question.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, there was an advertisement whose slogan was “when you pay, it will show”. For the past eight years, however, it has not shown. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the ZNBC will improve its programming as not enough money has been budgeted for its improvement.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I am actually happy that the hon. Member is sympathetic towards the fact that we need to allocate more money to the ZNBC. This is why we even had to enact the TV Levy so that the institution could have more money to make continuous improvement. It is the question of continuous improvement that the ZNBC is aspiring for. This is why the hon. Member is still able to watch the station.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that the ZNBC collects quite a substantial amount of money from TV Levy and is supported by taxpayers’ money, why is it, hon. Minister, that the ZNBC employees are lowly paid?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the ZNBC is aspiring to better the conditions of its workers. An institution is only able to pay within its ability.

Mr D. Mwila: Awe!

Ms Cifire: I am aware that even Hon. Mwila, coming from a union background and who is fond of commentaries, including Hon. Kambwili, know that it is upon ability that employees can be paid.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the quality of broadcasting at the ZNBC has continued to deteriorate in recent years in comparison with what it was before 1991 when we had the likes of the late Charles Mando? Does the problem concern the professionalism of the workers at the organisation or is it political interference?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I am trying to imagine the hon. Member being an announcer at the ZNBC.

Laughter

Ms Cifire: That is the only time we would be comparing the quality of broadcasting.

Laughter

Captain Moono: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! You cannot raise a point of order on your own question.

Laughter

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the fact is that the ZNBC has improved on quality.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: The ZNBC has gone half way towards digitalisation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: The period that the hon. Member is referring to is when the ZNBC was entirely analogue. Therefore, if we have moved ahead, can we still compare the old with the new?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Ms Cifire: I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister told this House that we have gone half way through digitalisation. Can she explain how much money has been spent on that exercise so far?

Mr Speaker: Does the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services have a bonus answer?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I just wish to indicate to the hon. Member that there is another question that is coming up from whose response he can fully benefit on what he wants to find out. However, the fact is that the ZNBC has moved ahead and we can all see.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, by its nomenclature, this levy is called the ZNBC Television Levy. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether consideration has been taken that many viewers, including this viewer speaking here, watch other stations like CBC, Muvi and Mobi television stations because of the ZNBC’s predictable nature programming? Has the Government thought about sharing the television levy’s returns with other stations?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I am actually confused that one can talk about …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes! You are!

Ms Cifire: … separate stand-alone institutions sharing money. It is like we, in the Government, trying to share governance with the people on the left side of the House.

Laughter

Ms Cifire: Sir, it is a question of choice on which channel one wants to watch.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Cifire: Therefore, each one of these institutions is there to stand on its own. If they are a money making institution, it is for them to show that they have achieved a mark of success. So, each one of them is competing for viewership.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order!

Mr Speaker: There is always time for hon. Members to raise questions and not points of order.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, may I find out why the ZNBC …

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda: … refuses to receive money for paid up programmes, specifically from Opposition political parties …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: … and yet, at the same time, the very corporation laments the failure of having cash to pay its workers properly. May I know why this is prevailing? This is a polite and straightforward question and I expect a polite answer.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member of Parliament for Sinazongwe will pay attention to the fact that the question deals with licence fees and, as such, he is outside the confines of this question.

Is the hon. Member for Kalomo Central also going to ask an irrelevant question?

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, three quarters of the money that comes from levies goes to recurrent expenditure. May I know whether it is possible for the Government to ensure that it apportions a bigger amount of money towards capital development for which purpose this levy was intended. What is the problem that now that 75 per cent of the revenue goes to paying workers and not towards capital development for the ZNBC?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the interest generated in that question is almost making me pre-empt the answer of the other question to come. The issue of recapitalisation is being dealt with in the issue of the digital migration that we are mandated to have. There is a large chunk of money that has already been put in place that will allow a total transformation of the ZNBC.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how the figure for the television levy compares to the amount paid for private programmes such as Chanda Chimba’s programme and who pays for him.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, if you look at the figures I tabulated earlier, there was no mention of our sponsoring anyone to do anything.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Ms Cifire: Anybody that wants to do anything private pays for it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, why has the hon. Minister not taken the trouble to go out there and find out how unpopular the ZNBC has become and why people prefer to pay K400,000 for digital satellite television (DSTV) rather than pay K3,000 to a station that is not providing any services, particularly those in the outskirts of Zambia?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, it is sad to note that we, as lawmakers, are sitting here and talking like that when we should be the people who are supposed to be change agents. When the issue of TV levy came up, it was us sitting here, as people who promote change in the country and also create improvement in the services of ZNBC, who supported it. We did that because of the fact that the Zambian people were ready to pay to institutions like Multi-Choice and MUVI TV amounts which are higher than what they pay to the ZNBC. People have agreed to this and they respected you over the decision that was made, and yet, today, you want to turn round and say it cannot be done. Where is the other money going to come from? What we are striving for is to provide the Zambian people, through the ZNBC, with proper information and service at all times.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I still see about seven to eight hon. Members who wish to raise supplementary questions and I trust that those questions will be relevant, but I am duty bound to guide you as follows.

One of the important functions that you, hon. Members, of this House carry out is to pass the Budget. The Budget deals with raising revenue and spending that money. In the process of raising revenue, one of the valuables to deal with is taxation and, with regard to that particular item, the language you use is such that you impose taxes. If you did not impose taxes, I wonder how many Zambians would volunteer to pay them. Always remember that you impose taxes.

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, I will be very relevant. The duty of the ministry at hand is to inform, educate and entertain. With regard to the K40.2 billion collected and expensed by my wonderful friend, the hon. Deputy Minister for Information and Broadcasting Services, who has performed exceptionally well, is it justifiable for us to use that money in answer to these three principles of your ministry?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, yes.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister tell this august House how much the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), United Party for National Development (UPND) and Patriotic Front (PF) which consist of people who pay the K3, 000 levy have benefited from the political propaganda being televised, everyday, on ZNBC.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the Zambian people are benefiting from the information that is broadcast on ZNBC.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, in answer to an earlier question which was in relation to the sharing of this revenue from the TV levy with the other broadcasting houses, the hon. Minister said that would be like sharing governance with the members of the Opposition. Now that this Government does share governance with members of the Opposition such as Hon. Chimbaka and Hon. Mkhondo Lungu, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: … would she go further by sharing this revenue with other broadcasting houses?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I do not find that related to what we are discussing.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

From now on, the House shall make progress.

ROAD EQUIPMENT IN THE SOUTHERN PROVINCE

430. Mr Ntundu asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the Chinese procured road equipment stationed in the Southern Province would be moved to Gwembe District to work on the roads there;

(b) what had caused the delay in grading the roads in the district; and

(c) what machinery for road maintenance was available in the Southern Province.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the ministry had earlier dispatched the following pieces of construction equipment to Gwembe District:

 Name of Equipment Quantity

Tipper Truck  1

Motor Grader  1

Front End Loader  1

Mr Speaker, these pieces of equipment have since been sent to other districts since they rotate in all the districts of the province.

The machinery works on a rotational basis. As a result, it takes a long time to do the rounds because the same equipment has to serve other roads in various districts in the province.

The following pieces of construction equipment are available for use in the Southern Province:

Equipment Quantity  Remarks

Motor Grader 06 3 are currently under repair and 3 are working
 Water Bowers 02 Both in good working condition
Excavator 01 In good working condition
Tipper Truck 04 In good working condition
Roller 02 In good working condition
Low Loader 01 In good working condition
Bull dozer 02 In good working condition
Front End Loader 04 In good working condition 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I think someone needs to be fired.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

MBESUMA BRIDGE

431. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the Government would construct a bridge on Chambeshi  River at Mbesuma;

(b) how much the project would cost; and

(c) what had delayed the construction of the bridge.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the construction of the bridge across the Chambeshi River at Mbesuma has been awarded to Messrs Sable Transport and Construction Limited at a contract sum of K49 billion. The works are expected to start in mid July, 2011. The contract price for the works is K49 billion. The Ministry of Works and Supply, through the RDA, could not commission the works much earlier because of insufficient budgetary provisions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister explain to the nation what happened to the US$3 million given to a known contractor who did nothing at the bridge earlier and what measures has the Government put in place to recover this money?

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, we prepared for the principle question that the hon. Member asked …

Interruptions

Mr Namulambe: … and the question he has raised now is a new one. However, when a contractor fails to do the works, there is always a bid security which is deposited and we recover whatever is lost through that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, may I learn from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply what happened to the materials that were delivered to the site when construction works on the said bridge were about to start. Where has that material gone?

Interruptions

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, there was no material that was bought.

I thank you.

LABOUR OFFICERS

432. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) how many labour officers were trained both within and outside Zambia from 2007 to 2010; and

(b) how many districts countrywide had labour officers as of March, 2011.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, five labour officers were trained locally and twenty outside Zambia, bringing the total number of labour officers trained both within and out of Zambia, from 2007 to 2010, to twenty-five.

The establishment comprised twenty-three district labour offices across the country, out of which fourteen were manned by labour officers as of March, 2011, namely Lusaka, Kafue, Chirundu, Ndola, Kitwe, Mufulira, Solwezi, Kabwe, Livingstone, Mazabuka, Choma, Mongu, Chipata and Kasama and Solwezi.

Mr Speaker, I wish to assure the House that the nine remaining stations are due to receive new labour officers as the ministry is actively working with Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to ensure that the process of recruiting labour officers is expedited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, may I learn from the hon. Minister who plays the role of labour officers in district councils where we do not have trained labour officers.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, in the districts where there are no labour officers, at the moment, all labour issues are reported to the District Commissioner (DC), who is the custodian in a particular district, and we pick up the matter from there as head office.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. {mospagebreak}

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Government intends to extend the presence of labour offices to other districts so that each and every district will have labour officers as opposed to using the DC’s office to settle labour issues.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I will repeat the same answer I gave earlier for sake of the hon. Member. Let me read it for him again. I wish to assure the House that the nine remaining stations are due to receive new labour officers and we are recruiting at the moment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.
 
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, specifically, when this will be done instead of him just saying that they are about to recruit.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I said this is in the process because we have involved Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. So, Hon. Kambwili should know that these are the parties involved in the planning.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Aah!

ZNBC TELEVISION SIGNAL

433. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services:

(a) when the ZNBC television signal would be extended to reach all parts of Zambia; and

(b) whether the Government had any plans to waive the television licence fee in areas that did not receive the ZNBC television signal.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the ZNBC television signal will be extended to all parts of Zambia by 2015. The International Telecommunication Union has set 2015 for all countries to migrate from analogue to digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting will enable the ZNBC reach all parts of the country and the National Digital Migration Task Force is working towards achieving the digitalisation of ZNBC by 2013. Therefore, the ZNBC television signal is expected to reach all parts of the country upon completion of the digital migration process.

On the other hand, the TV levy is only applicable in areas where the ZNBC television signal is received. ZNBC is aware of areas where television reception is not available and, therefore, does not collect TV levy in such areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is beneficial for people to pay TV levy without watching the ZNBC, especially in Samfya, Kawambwa, Mwense and Chienge.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister has answered that question, but may she reinforce it.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, in the second part of my answer, I indicated that TV levy is only applicable in areas where the ZNBC television signal is received. The ZNBC is aware of areas where television reception is not available and does not collect TV levy from there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Minister, I would like to find out how much it will cost the nation to migrate from the analogue to digital system by 2015.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, a task force which is not only composed of the ZNBC, but multi-sectoral in nature is the one which is doing the planning. At an appropriate time, I am sure we will be able to get information from the taskforce on the approximate cost for the migration process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, by the time the migration will be taking place, there will be increased costs for the people because they will have to acquire boxes for the new system and other things. What measures has the Government put in place to make sure that it cushions the Zambians from this cost which will come with this change?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I think the task force will, in due course, be able to give out all the information that will prepare the citizens for what will be required in the process of moving to this digital process. I think that useful information will allow people to prepare themselves to make the necessary interventions for them to meet the challenges that are going to come with digital migration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, granted that all parts of Zambia will have the ZNBC television signal by 2015, may I be advised by the hon. Minister when Chasefu Constituency, which is part of Zambia, will have this service extended to it. Will it be in 2015 or before that time?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the taskforce is actually working towards achieving that target by 2013. So, I am sure that the hon. Member’s constituency should be able to have the signal by that time as opposed to the requirements of the international regulations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has failed to answer the question which was asked by Hon. Mwila.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member wanted to find out why the ministry cannot do away with the TV levy in areas where the ZNBC Television Signal is poor. That was the question.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I did not realise that Hon. Kepeya had become the spokesperson for Hon. Mwila.

Laughter

Ms Cifire: When Hon. Mwila thinks an answer has not been provided accordingly, he normally protests, but this time, he did not. So, I will assume that Hon. Mwila was satisfied with the answer that we gave him.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that Zambia will migrate to the digital system by 2015, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is still allowing the importation of analogue television sets.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, if one was observant, he or she would notice that most of the equipment that is coming in the country, at present, is digital in nature. I do not think that there is any equipment that is coming in the country which is analogue in nature. Even though we may have been slow in our movements, our friends have still been moving forward. Most of the equipment that is being made now is digital in nature. Part of the task which the taskforce will have is ensure is that the equipment entering the country is that which will not affect the migration process at the time that we will have to totally migrate to the digital system.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMERCIAL LAND ACQUISITION

434. Colonel Chanda asked the Minister of Lands:

(a) what the procedure for acquiring land for commercial use on either side of Kafue Road from the Kafue Round About to Chawama Turn-Off was; and
 
(b) why authority to allocate the land above had shifted from the Ministry of Lands to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, the procedure for acquiring land for commercial use on either side of Kafue Road from Kafue Round About to Chawama Turn-Off follows the normal procedure for acquiring State land.

Mr Speaker, it is important to mention that the power of planning is vested in the hands of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. The Minister of Local Government and Housing carries out this mandate through city and municipal councils and provincial planning authorities. District councils are not planning authorities and, therefore, provincial authorities plan on their behalf.

Mr Speaker, the land in question, although State land, is currently settled upon and, therefore, the procedure starts with an applicant identifying and applying for the land to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing will then advise the applicant to negotiate the release of the land with the settlers of Misisi or John Laing compounds who occupy the identified land. On conclusion of the negotiations and the amount of compensation to be paid agreed upon, an agreement is signed between the settlers and the applicant.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing relay both the site plan and application to the Commissioner of Lands for consideration and allocation. Once allocation has been done, payment which is compensation to settlers is then made. These negotiations, signing of agreements and payments are all done under the supervision of the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Speaker, the authority to allocate the land above has not shifted from the Ministry of Lands to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. As already stated, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is the planning authority in charge of the area in question and not the Ministry of Lands. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing merely plans how the land is to be utilised and then relays the application to the Commissioner of Lands at the Ministry of Lands for allocation. The Ministry of Lands, therefore, still allocates land in the said area.

I thank you Sir.

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for giving us a very elaborate answer. However, I would like to find out whether the ministry has considered the provision to give some rebates to the would-be applicants in view of the amount of quarrying that is taking place in the area.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, that is a new a question. If the hon. Member wants a concise answer, …

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: … he should come to the ministry and we will give it to him.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, can I find out from the hon. Minister whether, in considering compensation for the people who will be displaced by the sale of land for commercial purposes, there is also consideration for allocation of alternative land on which the displaced people can settle to discourage their renting of houses in Misisi itself or in Garden Compound which just multiplies the problem of shanty compounds.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, the principal question asked by Hon. Colonel Chanda is about the land between Kafue Road About to Chawama Turn-Off. I do not know whether I should continue responding to Hon. Lubinda’s question because the he is not listening. In our answer, we indicated that if anyone wanted to get that land, they would have to come up with an agreement between themselves and the settlers. Therefore, the settlers would enter into the agreement voluntary. The Ministry of Lands would only come in for paper work to ensure that the land is given to the would-be owner.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, Misisi and John Laing compounds have the highest number of illegal settlers. I would like the hon. Minister to explain to the House what happens if a developer identifies land in such compounds which is illegally settled on. Do the people illegally occupying that land get compensated?

Mr Mabenga: Mr, Speaker, I do not know whether the young parliamentarian was listening to my earlier response to the main question in which I addressed the issue he has raised adequately. I will not repeat what I said earlier unless you, Mr Speaker requests, me to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Echo muleila tamwaishiba ukwasuka.

KITWE’S PROVIDENT HOUSE

435. Mr Mwenya (Nkana) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) how many residential flats and office accommodation were contained in the National Pension Scheme Authority’s (NAPSA’s) Provident House in Kitwe;

(b) how many families occupied the flats as of April, 2011;

(c) how many offices were occupied during the same period; and

(d) why the property had remained in a dilapidated state for a long time.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, in response to the question, I wish to inform the House as that Provident House in Kitwe is a three storey building with its commercial accommodation demarcated as follows:

Floor Commercial Purpose

Ground Floor there are four shops

First Floor there are seven offices

Second Floor there are seven offices

Therefore, Mr Speaker, there are no residential flats as the annex building comprising residential flats was disposed of in 2003 to Aetos Transform Limited and title deeds have since changed hands.

Mr Speaker, there were no tenants as at April, 2011 as NAPSA sold all residential flats in 2003 as stated  earlier. The number of offices occupied during the period of April, 2011 were fifteen out of eighteen which are on lease. The three vacant offices are in the process of being allocated to new tenants.

Mr Speaker, the property is undergoing rehabilitation under a contract signed in 2010 and the scope of works include; waterproofing, carpentry, metal and electrical works, plumbing, general finishes, interior and exterior painting as well as decorations. As of 30th April, 2011, most of the works had been done and the project was nearing completion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, the building which was disposed of to a private entrepreneur belonged to NAPSA and used to occupy over 300 families. It has remained unutilised to date. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any plans by the Government to repossess or purchase this property which is an eyesore in the central part of Kitwe?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, as a ministry which NAPSA is part of, we do not have such plans because, as I said, the title deeds have since changed hands. Thus, it is difficult for us to follow-up the matter in the manner which has been suggested by the hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

ZCCM-IH FINANCIAL POSITION

436. Mr Mwango asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) what the financial position of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investments- Holdings (ZCCM-IH) was as of December, 2010; and

(b) how much money the Government realised in dividends in 2009 and 2010.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Chikwakwa): Mr Speaker, the company’s financial position has been improving steadily over the years. The financial year end of the ZCCM-IH is 31st March. As at 31st December, 2010, which represents nine months of the financial year, the company earned a total income of K143.3 billion. The net profit after tax for the same period was K91.7 billion.

Furthermore, as at 31st December, 2010, the company had total assets of K1.3 trillion and total liabilities of K2.6 trillion. The total liabilities exceeded total assets by K1.3 trillion. This situation is a result of the significant legacy of liabilities that the company inherited at its formation.

Mr Speaker, the financial position of ZCCM-IH should be understood within the context of its formation. At the time of privatisation of the mines in 1996, ZCCM Limited was significantly a loss making company largely because of under capitalisation, the low copper prices, reduced copper production and high fixed costs. ZCCM-IH, the successor to the mining company, the ZCCM Limited inherited accumulated losses, legacy liabilities in the area of environment, labour as well as legal. These factors still have a bearing on the performance of ZCCM-IH to date because of the significant amounts that were involved.

Mr Speaker, even though ZCCM-IH has posted the profits as I have stated above, Section 84 of the Companies Act, Cap 388 of the Laws of Zambia, entails that ZCCM-IH cannot declare dividend until the accumulated losses of the past years have been reversed. As a consequence of this, the company did not declare any dividend in 2009 and 2010 to the Government or indeed, to its minority shareholders. All in all, ZCCM-IH has not been able to declare a dividend since inception.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, I would like to know the position of the company as at today despite it having inherited losses from the time it took over the operations of ZCCM Limited.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member asked a question which terminates at 2010. To date in the context being referred to by the hon. Member means 1st June, 2011. I think that the officers in the ministry require to research further for the hon. Minister to be able to provide an answer to that question, but if he has it, he can answer the question right away. 

Mr Chikwakwa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the guidance.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, the ZCCM-IH was formed in 2001, just after privatisation of the mines. The intention of the ZCCM-IH was to oversee the shareholding of the Zambian people, through the Zambian Government, and derive benefits. For eleven years, the ZCCM-IH has not declared a dividend to the benefit of the shareholders, who are the Zambian people and the minority shareholders, which is exactly what the foreign ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: The question is: What is the Zambian Government doing for Zambians to realise the aim of forming the ZCCM-IH so that we are able to declare dividends and get benefits from the company?

Mr Chikwakwa: Mr Speaker, the company is following Section 84 of the Companies Act Cap. 388 of the Laws of Zambia.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may I know how much debt the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) Limited left to the ZCCM-IH and how the K91 billion net profit was utilised?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speak, I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan is fully aware that the ZCCM-IH has liabilities to the tune of K2.6 trillion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the question I wanted to ask has been overtaken by events.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member is satisfied.
________________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL WELFARE

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare for the Fifth Session of the Tenth Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 24th May, 2011.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference set out in the National Assembly Standing Orders, your Committee undertook studies on two topics and considered the action-taken report on its Second Report for the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

The following topics were considered:

(i) the Status of Mental Health Services in Zambia; and

(ii) provision of Education to the Deaf in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, to appreciate the situation on the ground in relation to the topical issues, your Committee toured provincial mental health units and selected schools which have deaf units in the Central, Copperbelt and Luapula provinces. It also toured Chainama Hills Hospital, Zambia’s only mental health hospital, and the University Teaching Hospital Special Education Unit, respectively.

Your Committee’s report is, therefore, in two parts. Part I deals with the topical issues and local tours while Part II highlights the outstanding issues in the Action-Taken Report.

Sir, I now wish to highlight the salient issues in your Committee’s report.

The Status of Mental Health Services in Zambia

Mr Speaker, stakeholders in the mental health sector have a number of concerns about the status of mental health services in Zambia. Some of the concerns are that the main law governing the sector is archaic and the services provided leave much to be desired.

Your Committee sought to have a deeper understanding of the concerns throughout its interactions with various stakeholders in order to arrive at the observations and recommendations I now present.

Sir, your Committee observed that the Mental Health Policy of 2005 has not been implemented as evidenced by the non-implementation of the policy measures it contains such as those to ensure the availability of mental health drugs at all levels of health care and development of infrastructure. It is for this reason that the stakeholders argued that they have not felt the positive impact of having a policy in place. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Mental Health Policy should be reviewed and implemented in order to improve service provision in the sector. In reviewing the policy, your Committee urges the Government to consider removing the restrictions on the mental health drugs for prescription so that they become readily available in health facilities at all levels of health care.

Sir, stakeholders concerns on the Mental Disorders Act Cap. 305 of the Laws of Zambia, which is the law currently governing service provision in the mental health sector, are genuine. The law is archaic and contains controversial provisions related to involuntary admission, treatment and seclusion. The Act also uses demeaning terms in Section 5 such as imbecile and idiot. To this effect, your Committee urges the Government to urgently enact a law that will be acceptable to all stakeholders. The law should provide for minimum standards of mental health infrastructure to ensure that persons with mental disorders are treated with dignity as human beings. This will be a solution to the current situation where certain mental institutions are like prisons.

Mr Speaker, funding for the Mental Health Service is inadequate. It is estimated at less than 1 per cent of the health budget. Your Committee acknowledges that mental health is very important to the well-being of human beings. It, therefore, recommends that funding to the health sector, in particular, should be increased providing adequate financial resources to the mental health sector and improve provisions.

Mr Speaker, the infrastructure for provision of mental health services is inadequate and where it exists, is dilapidated and usually inappropriate. The situation has been like this despite the Government stating, in the Mental Health Policy of 2005, that it will ensure that there is development of new infrastructure for provision of mental health services where there is a need. Your Committee was informed that infrastructure under construction had remained unfinished for a long time at Mansa General Hospital. There is also a psychiatric ward at Ndola Central Hospital that has been closed for a long time pending renovations.

Your Committee recommends that the Government should develop adequate infrastructure for provision of mental health services and renovate the existing dilapidated infrastructure. The Government should further establish, at least, one rehabilitation centre in each province.

Sir, mental health workers in the country are not enough. The few frontline workers available have been demotivated for various reasons such as lack of career advancement and some have even opted to go back to general practice. Furthermore, the country does not have enough psychiatrists. Your Committee notes, with dismay, that forty-seven years after independence the country has only one practicing psychiatrist. The issue of psychiatrists should be treated with the urgency it deserves as the country needs this cadre of health personnel to contribute to service provision in the mental health sector.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should put measures in place to train and retain mental health workers, especially psychiatrists, social workers, occupational therapists, clinical officers and nurses.

Provision of Education to the Deaf in Zambia

Mr Speaker, the deaf community is of the view that the quality of education for the deaf learners has been compromised due to the lack of teaching materials and inadequate special education teachers in schools, among other things. According to the deaf, this has led to high illiteracy and the lack of confidence and self-esteem among them.

Your Committee undertook a study on the provision of education to the deaf, in Zambia, in order to fully appreciate the concerns by the deaf community. Sir, let me inform this august House on your Committee’s observations and recommendations on the study.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that there are many disabilities and each one is unique calling for special attention and interventions with regard to provision of education. It is of the view that the current general policy on special education may not be addressing the unique education needs of disabilities like deafness.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should come up with a specific policy to address the challenges related to the provision of education to the deaf.

Your Committee observes, further, that there is no specialisation related to various disabilities for those who study and train in special education as their training takes a holistic approach and trains teachers in general methodology of teaching children with special education needs. This has negatively affected the quality of teachers for deaf learners and consequently the education of deaf learners.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that your Committee recommends that there is a need for the Government to urgently consider revising the training curriculum for teachers of special education needs to ensure that there is specialisation towards various major disabilities such as hearing impairment and blindness. Teachers for the deaf must be appropriately trained for them to communicate and teach effectively using sign language, especially at high school and tertiary level.

Sir, Zambia does not have enough teachers of special education needs to teach the deaf learners at all levels of education. Additionally, the few available teachers are not able to communicate with and teach deaf learners using sign language effectively.

In this regard, your Committee urges the Government to address the shortage of teachers to teach the deaf learners by increasing the number of training institutions and trainees. The Government should ensure, further, that the teachers trained are able to communicate in sign language effectively.

Mr Speaker, there is no officially recognised sign language in Zambia. The stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and the teachers in the schools toured attested to this fact. They stated that they were using a combination of Zambian and American Sign Language. The Zambian Sign Language also has different versions.

Sir, the absence of an officially recognised language is a barrier to the overall improvement of education for the deaf in Zambia and for that reason, your Committee recommends that there is a need to recognise and develop one official sign language. Alternatively, the American Sign Language can be adopted and made official, but such a policy decision must be arrived at with proper consultation with the deaf community and other stakeholders.

Sir, there are inadequate schools for the deaf. The units at basic school level are too few resulting in learners having to cover long distances to reach school. The few available high schools can only accommodate a limited number. Furthermore, the few schools and units do not have sufficient teaching and learning materials.

Your Committee urges the Government to build more deaf units and boarding schools at both basic and high school level. Each province should have, at least, one boarding basic school and one boarding high school for the deaf. The availability of many schools and units for the deaf will solve the problem of children covering long distances to reach a school.

Furthermore, there is a need to develop and provide sufficient and suitable teaching and learning materials in all schools and units for the deaf.

In conclusion, Sir, your Committee, is very grateful to you for the valuable guidance you provided during the year. It is also indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to register my appreciation to all Members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee. Allow me also to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice and services rendered during the year.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to second this very important Motion for the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare. Allow me, also, to thank the mover of this Motion for the able manner in which she has highlighted very important issues in your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, I wish to point out a few issues as I second this Motion. As the House has already been informed, your Committee toured mental health units at the Kabwe General, Kitwe General, Ndola Central, Mansa General and Chainama Hills hospitals.

Mr Speaker, it is a fact that certain mental disorders make patients violent at times. Therefore, in such situations, it is important to ensure that there is adequate security in the psychiatric units. However, your Committee, having toured these mental health facilities, observed that security of both mental health workers and patients in these wards was compromised as many wards had inadequate security.

Sir, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Ministry of Health should come up with a policy to protect mental health workers and patients in psychiatric wards from violent patients. Your Committee is concerned that mental health services are not provided in primary health care institutions. Many stakeholders who appeared before your Committee also shared this concern. Your Committee realises that there is no health without mental health. For this reason, your Committee urges the Government to integrate mental health services in primary health care system for them to be easily accessed by all those who require them.

Mr Speaker, most of the concerns raised by the stakeholders are genuine. Your Committee is of the view that if the Ministry of Health had implemented measures as laid down in the Mental Health Policy of 2005, most of the concerns we are raising now could not arise. For example, it has taken the Government so long to review the Mental Disorders Act despite general consensus among stakeholders that it has many shortcomings.

Mr Speaker, your Committee urges the Government to fully implement the policy which it, developed itself. The Government should go further and review the policy in order to align it with modern trends of mental health service provision.

Sir, let me also talk about the provision of education to the deaf in Zambia. Although the deaf learners do not normally obtain competitive results to enable them finish school and enroll in colleges, they have been very good in practical subjects which teach practical skills. Therefore, your Committee is of the view that this strength of the deaf learners should be exploited. Therefore, I recommend that the Government should develop a curriculum for the deaf learners which focuses on acquisition of practical skills. These practical skills are useful for self-employment.

Sir, your Committee further observes that there is no system for universal hearing and testing of all children entering school. This is in spite of the fact that it is very important. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government should come up with a system for universal hearing and sight testing to ensure that all children entering school are tested and placed in the right educational institutions.

With these few points, I beg to second.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the report of your Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare.

Mr Speaker, indeed, the topics which your Committee covered are very important. I will not waste much of your time, but will try to concentrate on mental health services in this country.

Mr Speaker, I would like to mention that this country has a policy which was implemented in 2005 and it has been on the shelf. The law under which the mental service has been looked at is from an Act of 1951, which is sixty years ago. In this regard, that shows how bad the situation is and this is not good for the country.

Mr Speaker, the World Health Organisation (WHO) tries to get into the details of analysing what mental health is. I think that the attracting issues are those of stress and being productive to the community. If we have only one person to be dealing with mental health in a country, then we will not do anything. If we have mental health institutions in the Eastern, Western and Northern provinces and people need to report issues in terms of rehabilitation, then what are we doing?  People from that side of the House (right) are saying that they are doing very fine in issues of bringing medical services to the Zambian people. In this country, each day, there are children born with mental problems. These people just come with resolutions from the workshops and implement them as a policy. The issue of mental illness is very serious.

Mr Speaker, those who are well acquainted with history are aware of one German dictator by the name of Adolf Hitler who had a mental problem and whose medical term I cannot recall, at the moment, but I am sure that those in the medical field know what it is.

Mr Speaker, what distinguishes human beings from animals is the fact that they are governed by laws. For example, human beings know that roads are meant for cars and so we cannot be walking on them. Animals, however, have no laws, but have instinct like a human being. If, in a country, there are no adequate laws, then there are serious issues.

Mr Speaker if we do not have a strong health sector to check on people with mental illnesses, one day, we will be under the leadership of a mad person because there are no facilities to examine people’s heads.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker this is a serious issue.

I want to tell you about the symptoms of this illness.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: One of the symptoms of mental illness is depression. One can be depressed if he or she has been losing elections continuously …

Laughter

Mr Beene: … or if they have been having a lot of expectations and get nothing at the end of the day. Sometimes, being too overzealous and having too much quest for power can be a sickness. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: An individual will even fail to realise that he or she is sick. This is why I say this is a serious issue.

Mr Speaker, there are certain jobs we aspire for, especially in leadership. There should be, therefore, a provision for tests to determine whether people we put in leadership positions will take us anywhere. This is very important.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: What is obtaining on the ground now is that we do not even know who is sick. The budget has already been passed. It is my hope, however, that those who will be privileged to run the country after the forthcoming elections take into consideration the issue of mental illness in next year’s Budget.   
 
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, as I speak, there are people struggling to cope with people with mental health in their homes. All we have done, so far, is attend workshops where people talk about mental health and produce manuals.

Mr Speaker, I wish to quote from your report the vision for the policy for Zambia. You will note that what I am about to read does not even make much sense. It reads:

“The Mental Health Policy of 2005 whose vision is society in which Zambians create an environment conducive to mental health and learn the art of being”

Mr Speaker, what does that mean?

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the Government to take this matter seriously. If possible, we should even bring a Bill to the House so that even as we go for elections, people are examined to determine whether they are mentally stable to run this country or not.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: It is very important.

Earlier, I mentioned Mr Adolf Hitler. He was on medical treatment for his anxieties and moods which resulted in violence. These are serious matters which this Government must take seriously because, one day, the institutions of this country may end up being run by people with mental problems. I can tell you now that both humans and animals think. They have feelings and both of them have instinct.

For certain people, however, this is a big problem.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I would like to emphasise that the issue of mental illness is a serious problem in this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: It is a sickness whereby one is not even aware that he or she is sick because they are not conforming to the norms of society. We cannot see this because this country has not enacted laws for such issues. You cannot force anyone to be examined. This is a very big problem. Even when you try to take a mentally ill person to Chainama Hills Hospital for examination, you may end up abusing him/her because there are no proper provisions laid down. This is because the procedure and criterion is not available.

Mr Speaker, what are we supposed to do with such a crisis before the elections?

Laughter

Mr Beene: This is a very serious issue. I do not think that it is too late …

Laughter

Mr Beene:  …for the Ministry of Health to bring a Bill to this House so that we may stop calling each other “mad” or “sick”. We need to see the degree of sickness.

Laughter

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support your report.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with the previous speaker, Hon. Beene, who covered most of the points that I wanted to raise. However, I wish to commend the Government for a job well done.

On page 5 of your report, we have been told that the Ministry of Health has integrated mental health into strategic plans. This should be commended. It is good that the Government is thinking about mental health in this country in that manner.

The report further states that mental health has been integrated into manuals and various guidelines at the Ministry of Health. This is good, indeed. It goes on further to say that ninety-nine clinical officers and psychiatry officers have been trained and ninety-seven mental health nurses have been trained and posted to health institutions throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, we should thank the Government for doing this because of what Hon. Beene said. It is true that this country will have its elections this year. It is, indeed, true that people who have lost elections in the past may have mental breakdowns when they lose again. As a caring Government, we need to make sure that we provide services and put in place officers to look after such people because they are also citizens of this country.

Mr Speaker, on Page 12 of your report, we have seen observations and recommendations by your Committee that we should put up hospitals for people who are mentally ill. I would like to propose to this Government the places they should put up these hospitals.

Mr Speaker, we need one mental health clinic around Bwinjimfumu to cater for people who are around that area.  We need one in Munali and another one in Lubansenshi. We need mental health clinics in these areas. These elections will have a huge impact on most of us.

Hon. MMD Member: And Kabwata!

Mr Lubinda interjected.

Mr V. Mwale: I am not sure about Kabwata, but we need one in Chingola where the seconder of this Motion comes from. 

Mr Speaker, mental health is a serious issue. I wish to thank the Government for having developed strategic plans as well as training ninety-seven nurses and ninety-nine clinic officers to handle mental health in this country. It is important that this country moves forward and develops economically. When this happens, some people may move forward while others might remain behind. We need people to take care of those that will remain behind.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I just want to briefly say one or two things about deafness. I might just comment in passing that it is worrying that the previous two speakers have shown little confidence in the mental stability of their own leadership with their worrying of what might happen when they lose the next election.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Sir, I fully support your Committee’s observation that we need to come up with one type of sign language in Zambia.

Non-governmental organisations (NGOs) come from Italy, Russia and the United States of America (USA) to Zambia with different types of sign languages which add to the confusion in this very poorly attended to sub-sector of education. I would say that the American Sign Language is better for the Zambian dialect. You can never stop a Zambian from signalling to say nothing by putting his or her hand up and shaking it around to mean that, there is no petrol, milk or mealie-meal. This signalling works perfectly well.

However, amongst the people who need to be trained in this sign language are the parents of the congenitally deaf children or children who lose their hearing at a very young age. What we have, at the moment, are people improvising on the type of sign language to use in their houses. As a result, a particular child is exposed to a unique made up type of sign language at home such that if that child is lucky enough to get into school, he/she becomes confused because of being dropped in an environment with an entirely different sign language system.

Sir, I, therefore, wish to urge the people who are in charge of providing sign language education to find a way of getting the parents of deaf children to use the same sign language taught in schools.

Besides that, teachers marking examination papers written by deaf children require to be specialists in deafness. This is because the way that deaf people understand written language, such as English, is somehow special because it is a phonetic alphabet. The letters in English go with a particular sound. Since most deaf people have never heard the said sounds, it makes it more difficult for them to comprehend the written language. A language more like Chinese or Japanese in which the symbols stand for objects and actions is probably more appropriate, even though that is going a bit ahead of what we really need in this country. At the moment, what we need is simply political will. A little bit of organisation, money and some political will is what we need in this country for us to be able to attend to the wretched of the earth. To be a deaf person, in Zambia, is a very wretched condition in the present environment. Luckily, that political will is on the way.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Member: Yes! Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. From the outset, I wish to support your Committee’s report.

Sir, the mental stability of a person can also be measured by the way he/she trivialises matters of importance like the one that we are discussing today.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: It is painful to find that an hon. Member of Parliament can stand up and start waffling over an issue as important as mental health which is of great concern to people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Every time we move on the streets of Lusaka, we find …

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! The word ‘waffling’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Kambwili: I withdraw the word ‘waffling’, Sir. I shall instead say that it is painful to find an hon. Member of Parliament standing up and wasting ten minutes of this House’s time just talking nonsense.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: For lack of a better term.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Can you withdraw the word ‘nonsense’.

Mr Kambwili: Sorry, Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘nonsense’ and replace it with it with, ‘talking trivialities when one knows that the issue is serious.’ When you move on the streets of Lusaka, including the streets of Itezhi-tezhi, you find mad people who are not cared for. Therefore, it is unreasonable for anybody to trivialise a matter like that and start …

Mr Beene: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I rarely raise points of order. However, is Hon. Kambwili, who is debating poorly on the Floor of this House in order to mention Itezhi-tezhi in his debate, and yet this area has no mentally ill people because these people are only found in Chingola where he comes from?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi, in debating his own point of order denies that there are any mental patients in Itezhi-tezhi. Therefore, he wishes to be left alone with regards to this topic. Therefore, the hon. Member for Roan, in that sense, is not in order.

May he continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I will leave others to decide as regards who looks mentally disturbed in view of the debate on the Floor of the House.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, I was saying that every time we move on the streets of Lusaka and Luanshya, we meet mentally disturbed people who are marginalised and are not well looked after. Now, if there are no mentally disturbed people in Itezhi-tezhi, then the hon. Member of Parliament for the area should not worry. He, in fact, should not have wasted time to debate an issue which does not affect …

Mr Speaker: Order!I have already ruled that you should leave Itezhi-tezhi out of your debate.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, it is disheartening to learn that, forty-six years after independence, we have only one psychiatrist. This should be a source of worry to this country. No wonder we see a lot of mentally disturbed people working on the different streets in the country.

The Mental Act of 1951 provides that if a report reaches the police that somebody is suspected to have a mental problem, the police have the right to arrest that person and put them behind bars for fourteen days until that person is certified normal or abnormal. Detaining people in this manner is an infringement on their rights.

Sir, I can give an example of such a situation which happened on the Copperbelt. A husband wanted to divorce his wife. He just went to the police and reported that his wife was mad and that woman was arrested and put behind bars for fourteen days. After fourteen days, it was discovered that the woman did not even have a mental problem. Therefore, it is an urgent requirement that we repeal the 1951 Mental Act so that we can protect the rights of the people. When you are mad, it does not mean that you are not a human being.

Mr Speaker, today, in developed countries, people have built mental homes where they keep people that have mental disturbances. However, here in Zambia, people with mental problems are found all over town. They pick their food from garbage bins and nobody cares about such a situation. We need to treat these people that have got mental problems with respect and dignity because they are also human beings just like us.

Sir, it is also disheartening to note that your Committee has mentioned, in its report, that all district level hospitals do not stock drugs for mental problems, and yet the nurses are trained in some kind of a general way on how to look after mental patients.

I was just asking my neighbour, Hon. Dr Chituwo, a while ago why the situation is the way it is in Zambia and he told me that the nurses may have the basic training, but they still cannot prescribe the drugs for mental patients. That is why, more often than not, when one is admitted in hospital with a mental problem, you find that the only treatment they get is to have the police called on them so to have them put in handcuffs and tied to the bed while waiting to be taken either to Chainama or Ndola Referral Hospital for the Mentally Disturbed Patients. This is a very serious issue which we must look at.

If it means employing qualified doctors from abroad at a high cost, we must do that because the people are suffering. When you speak to some of the mentally ill people, you can actually get a lot of sense from what they say. There is only something small missing in their brains. If they are given proper treatment, they can get back to normal. We have a lot of mentally disturbed people on the streets in this country because there is no care for them.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Chituwo was telling me that when he was Minister of Health …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: … he recommended three Zambian doctors to go abroad to study psychiatry, but after their studies, they decided not to come back to the country. Now, if our Zambian doctors are not coming back to attend to this important and serious problem, it is imperative that we employ people from other countries because we have countries like the eastern block where there are a lot of trained doctors who have no jobs. We have a lot of doctors in India who have no jobs. The Government should recruit these unemployed doctors in other countries to come and work here so that patients can be treated properly.

Mr Speaker, as regards the state of the infrastructure at mental health institutions, I agree with the one who said that when you go to Chainama and see how these mentally disturbed people are looked after, you can cry. They are treated like prisoners, and yet they have not committed any offence except that they suffer from a mental disturbance. Why should people be kept in cells at a hospital as if they have committed offences? We need to train more caregivers who will assist the nurses and the one doctor who we have. We are talking about one psychiatrist for a population of about 13,000,000 people. That is something unacceptable. This is a very serious issue which we should look at with the urgency it deserves. We should make sure that we employ doctors who are going to look after these patients. The infrastructure is also something to worry about.

Mr Speaker, forty-six years after Independence, we should have mental hospitals in all districts in Zambia. In Luanshya, the different mental patients I meet are over fifteen. If you go on the streets of Lusaka, you will find over forty mentally disturbed people. If hospitals and nursing homes were available to keep and treat these people, we could serve a lot of lives.

Mr Speaker, I support your Committee’s report and recommend that the Government moves quickly to find doctors to come and help this one psychiatrist to save lives.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the mover and seconder of Motion and your entire Committee for the good job they did in trying to come up with the issues which they have in the report.

Mr Speaker, mental health is a very serious issue and when debating it, we should do it with passion because it might affect us in future. Therefore, as we look at this issue let us not simplify it because it is very important. When I was going through the report, I discovered that nearly each and every province had an institution which is entrusted with the responsibility of taking care of mentally disturbed people with an exception of the North/Western Province. That is why I urge the Government to also put up a structure in this province so as to address the problem there.

Mr Speaker, I have seen what goes on in a mental hospital. I have in mind the treatment that the patients at the Ndola Mental Block receive. The medical personnel looking after the patients need some form of insurance. When you are looking after maniacs and schizophrenics, you are at risk of anything. I have heard stories of people who have been harassed and abused. Some visitors have even been raped by patients. It is for this reason that I am asking that the Government comes up with a system of insuring the people working in such an environment against any eventualities. This will motivate them to keep working in such an environment. I agree with the recommendation of the committee that Government comes up with a focal point person in each and every ministry to attend to mental health.

When this is done, if we have a mental patient in a particular organisation, people would know where to go for counselling. It is embarrassing that many years after Independence; we are talking about a law which was done in 1951. It is not good to have a Government which does not do anything about such laws. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has never looked at this law despite being in power for twenty years. Despite the MMD coming up with various reports, it keeps forgetting a very important component of health care. Reading through the report, I see that the mental health provision collapsed in 1991 when the MMD came up with reforms. That was not right. It is important that the Government looks at the issue seriously and comes up with measures that will revive the mental health care component. If we do not do that, we will not achieve anything in significant in the health sector.

Mr Speaker, the Government has come up with mobile hospitals for patients for various diseases, but has not come up with one to deal with mental patients. The Government can also integrate the mental health section into primary health care so that everyone can receive proper health care. If we are not going to take care of the mental patients, then we are neglecting a very important sector of people in our society.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the learning institutions for the deaf. When you look at the ratio in terms of schools for the deaf and normal ones from basic to tertiary level, it is about 61 to 3. This is not good. At this stage, we are supposed to have a university for the deaf so that they are also given a chance to prosper in their education so that they take up serious careers in the country. I urge the Government to come up with drastic measures in a bid to provide better education for the deaf because no one will do it on its behalf. By the way, everybody is a potential mental patient. It is for this reason that we need to take issues to do with mental health seriously. We need to provide care for mental patients because we are here to provide for everybody. I pray that the ministry will do something about what I have stated above.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I thank your Committee for its report on this particular subject. However, I need to say a few words on this issue. Psychiatry and pathology are some of the most difficult sections or courses in medicine. We have Zambians, just like Hon. Kambwili said, who have been sent outside before to train in both courses, but because these courses are not common even abroad, these Zambians have not come back. Only very few have done so.

However, it is also worth noting that because of the difficulty of these courses, they are very few Zambians who want to venture into this field. At the moment, we have a few doctors, about three, who are based at Chainama Hills Hospital, that we are trying to co-opt. We hope that once they have been trained as psychiatrists, they will come back and work for us in this country.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, not a question of there not being a will to have Zambians train as psychiatrists. It is just that these are difficult courses. They are difficult in that even after one has trained as a psychiatrist, with years, the problem starts taking a toll on them and so one has to be more alert than, maybe, in other specialties. When people look at all this, they are skeptical at times to get into these courses. So, we must understand that these are highly specialised courses. In the olden days, experts in mental illness were seen to be the geniuses in society. I will be falling short not to still call them as such because this is what they are, as this is a very difficult field to deal with.

Mr Speaker, there are various types of mental sicknesses. There are some sicknesses that are difficult to work with and cure and some that are curable. Hon. Kambwili talked about the chaining of some mental patients. Indeed, the status of some of them is such that if they are not chained, they will kill themselves. There are some rooms at Chainama Hills Hospital that are just meant to keep such people in because they will do anything. They can even break down anything that they can with their hands, head or anything else. So, these rooms have to be padded or else patients will break things or kill themselves. That is the nature of their mental status and you cannot do anything much about it in the beginning. Later, of course, you can control it by using drugs, but in the early stages, chaining them is the kind of action that is required.

Mr Speaker, I think your Committee visited Chainama Hills Hospital. We have rehabilitated both the men’s and female’s sections of the hospital. It looks really beautiful and is of good standard. It is true that Ndola Central Hospital is not yet rehabilitated, but I would like to inform your Committee that the staffing levels have improved since the time it visited the hospital. So, I hope your Committee can take into account that we have actually taken action after the hon. Members passed through because I happened to pass through a week after them. I heard the complaints that were given to them. We acted on some of the concerns and are about to look into the closed ward at the hospital so that, maybe, we can improve on the bed space at the institution.

Mr Speaker, it is within the last ten years or so that we have introduced direct entry mental nurse training. It was not there before and we have done so because we have recognised the need to improve on this particular service. I would like it to be recognised that this Government has actually initiated direct entry nurse training. Furthermore, I would like to tell the chairperson of this Committee that at the last World Health Organisation (WHO) Summit, Zambia raised the particular issue on mental sickness as one of those important diseases the WHO must take note of by including it in the non-communicable diseases category. This has been done. Thanks to the concern raised by Zambia. I would like, therefore, to say that this Government pays a lot of attention to this particular subject and it is working on it. I am sure your Committee has taken note of that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank all those that have supported your Committee’s report through debate and silently.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

___________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Mwansa): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

____________

The House adjourned at 1722 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 2nd June, 2011.