Debates- Wednesday, 2nd November, 2011

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 2nd November, 2011 

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

PRAYER

___________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

POST-ELECTION SERMINAR

Mr Speaker: I have an announcement to make. 

Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that there will be another post-election seminar for all hon. Members of Parliament, in the Chamber, at Parliament Buildings, beginning Sunday 6th to Tuesday 8th November, 2011. 

The purpose of the seminar is to give the hon. Members an opportunity to learn about parliamentary practices and procedures and etiquette both at regional and international level. 

I, therefore, encourage all hon. Members of Parliament to participate in this important seminar. The programme and profile for the seminar will be availed to all hon. Members of Parliament by the Office of the Clerk. 

I will be making another announcement before the weekend just to highlight the profile of the seminar.

Thank you.

_________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

CHAMBISHI COPPER MINE

The Minister of Mines and Natural Resources (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, I wish to issue a ministerial statement in response to a question raised during His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, which deserves an answer. The statement is on the industrial unrest and termination of employment for workers at Chambishi Copper Mine on the Copperbelt.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to report to this august House on the industrial unrest and termination of employment for mine workers at Chambishi Copper Mine. My address will highlight the causes of the strike and the measures the Government undertook to prevent job losses at the Chambishi Copper Mine. 

Mr Speaker, approximately, 2,000 workers at Chambishi Copper Mine owned by Non-Ferrous China Africa (NFCA) went on strike on 4th October, 2011 to press for higher wages. The strike was briefly called off after a visit by the hon. Deputy Minister of Labour, Sports and Youth. During the hon. Deputy Minister of Labour, Sports and Youth’s visit. An agreement was reached between management and the union to award employees K2 million across the board. This agreement was reached after taking into account the existing salary disparity of about K2 million between the Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) and NFCA employees. However, the management decided not to honour the agreed amount of K2 million and instead wrote to employees, awarding them K200,000 across the board.

Mr Speaker, this angered the employees who later decided to down tools. The work stoppage lasted for three weeks, a situation which is deeply regretted. Following the continued strike, the management at Chambishi Copper Mine issued dismissal letters and gave the workers forty-eight hours within which to appeal.

Mr Speaker, the work stoppages that we are experiencing in the country are an indication that the conditions of service for workers were not adequately addressed by the previous Government. 

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, it is the duty of my Government to ensure that workers’ rights and interests are upheld. It is for this reason that my Government took keen interest in resolving the unrest at Chambishi Copper Mine in a manner that will benefit both the employer and the worker. To resolve the impasse and ensure that there were no job losses, I travelled to the Copperbelt to meet with the management and mine workers’ unions. From the meetings, it was resolved as follows: 

(i)    there was a serious misunderstanding between the two parties due to a lack of communication and cultural differences. The Chinese management were, therefore, urged to integrate more with the Zambian people so that the two parties could better understand each other;

(ii)    the mine management issued dismissal letters to workers. According to the mine management the dismissal letters were not necessarily meant to terminate workers’ employment, but a way of getting them back to work; and 

(iii)    the collective agreement for this year was valid until end of December and, therefore, there was still time for negotiations with the union.

Mr Speaker, the unrest was resolved after the two parties agreed on the following:

(i)    that management reinstates all dismissed employees unconditionally and immediately;

(ii)    that all workers resume work in the morning at 06:00 hours on 22nd October 2011 unconditionally; and

(iii)    that salary negotiations resume soon after the situation normalises. The negotiations would be overseen by the Minister of Labour, Sports and Youth and the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to state that my Government will work to create a win-win situation for the investors and the people of Zambia. As a Government, we have accepted to work with investors as partners in development. Therefore, we need to work and help each other to overcome the cultural barriers which most often result in misunderstandings. We want to see investors in this country abide by the law and contribute to the development and uplifting of Zambians’ standard of living. As stated in the Patriotic Front Manifesto, the Government will ensure that the welfare of workers in this country is adequately addressed.

Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to inform you that I also visited mine contractors, management and employees in Chililabombwe where there was also industrial unrest.

The mine companies in attendance were as follows:

(i)    Grinaker LTA
(ii)    WBHO
(iii)    AAC Mining Executors
(iv)    Murray and Roberts
(v)    Classic Mining
(vi)    Carmine Mining
(vii)    Provitech LTD; and 
(viii)    KONNOCCO Zambia Limited, through a client company.

During the meeting, the following was agreed:

(i)    both management and employees should allow the process of collective bargaining to start immediately and that the process must be respected by both parties;

(ii)    management should allow workers to join the union of their choice and recognise these unions where there are more than twenty-five employees, as the law stipulates;

(iii)    union leaders should take charge of their employees and the work stoppages should stop;

(iv)    management should be sensitive to workers’ needs. It should not wait for upheavals or for a Minister’s visits to improve conditions of service for its employees;

(v)    all suspended workers at Grinaker LTA should be re-instated immediately and unconditionally. 

(vi)    the issue of the dismissed workers at Mechanised Mechanical Services (MMS) will await a full investigation by the Ministry of Labour, Sports and Youth officials as there has been some passage of time; 

(vii)    the Government should engage client companies to look at the issues of rates pertaining to mine contractors;

(viii)    the Government will look at the issue of legislation, for instance, gratuity which is currently not legislated; 

(ix)    there should be no victimisation of workers to allow workers work freely;

(x)     there should also be an increase in dialogue between employees and employers; and 

(xi)    contracts should also be properly drafted, agreed on and attested by a Labour Department officer.

Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to inform the House that I have since appealed to all workers to go back to work. I have also directed management and unions to commence negotiations as soon as the situation normalises.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification in relation to the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources pertaining to the media reports on the Copperbelt industrial unrest. It is alleged that the PF officials were instrumental in instructing the mines to pay the K2 million, and if this is not the case, what role did the PF officials play in the Copperbelt strikes?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member used the word ‘alleged’. I wish to confirm that there was no PF participation whatsoever. These disputes are between management and employees. During my visit, there was no such evidence and likewise when I discussed these issues in and outside a meeting. There was no PF involvement. It was a question of workers wanting their rights to be heard and addressed.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, through you, would the hon. Minister confirm to this House that the so-called agreement of K2 million across the board was done under political duress and not according to the dictates of collective agreement?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to confirm that it was not done under political duress. That K2 million was arrived at after negotiations prior to the work stoppages. The management of the NFCA were urged to go to Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and get a schedule of salaries and the conditions of service that are obtaining there. That was when they found the K2 million discrepancy between what the KCM and what the NFCA are paying. That is how that K2 million was arrived at. The workers then demanded that they be at the same level as their colleagues and that is how the whole issue started. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the agreement of K2 million was as a result of the meeting, which management had with the hon. Deputy Minister. Since when did the hon. Deputy Minister become the negotiator of salaries and social service for the workers?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me state that the hon. Deputy Minister of Labour, Sports and Youth went there in an effort to help resolve the wrangle and not to dictate in any way. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister saying that the collective agreement was dully made. I would like to find out why the Government has allowed a second phase of negotiations for a collective agreement to be made if the first one was correctly made and a K2 million was arrived at. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House and the hon. Member for Zambezi West that the collective agreement for Chambishi NFCA expires on the 31st December, 2011. According to the law, negotiations should start three months before the expiry of the collective agreement. This means that the negotiations for Chambishi NFCA were supposed to have started in October, 2011, which they did. 

Mr Kakoma: And they did.

Mr Simuusa: The negotiations were not concluded and that is why there was industrial unrest. Since the negotiations were not concluded, if there are parties that are not satisfied, they are free to renegotiate. That is how the process works, but it is important to note that, in this case, the negotiations have not yet been concluded.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda, SC. (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, the PF Government has made promises to the people of Zambia that within ninety days, it is going to ensure they have more money in their pockets. We have heard promises of people getting as much as K5 million minimum salaries per month by the PF Government. Is this what is responsible for the many strikes that we have seen throughout the country? Will the Government compel all employers to pay this kind of minimum wage? I need the hon. Minister’s confirmation of that.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to state categorically, and I am sure the hon. Member for Muchinga, the former Vice-President, is aware that we have not yet announced a minimum wage. My colleague, the hon. Minister of Labour, Sports and Youth and his staff are currently working on that. 

Mr Speaker, there is no time, whilst in Government and during our campaign, that we promised a K5 million minimum wage.

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: It was the UPND, the hon. Members across the Table who promised those figures.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: We are a responsible Government who are working hard to make sure that we create a situation where both the employees and the employers are happy. I also wish to state that the salaries and conditions of service currently obtaining in this country were left in place by the MMD Government. We are firefighting and trying to clear this mess that is there currently. As a responsible Government, we are working tirelessly to ensure that the situation is addressed very soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Petauke.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, my question has already been asked.

Mr Speaker: Very well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister spoke about the disparities between the salaries paid at the KCM and the NFCA. Did the Government look at these differences in terms of production levels at the two mining operations, profitability and ability to pay of each mine?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, it is not the Government’s job to find out why there are disparities in the salaries. It was the parties themselves that agreed to compare the salaries. They agreed on their own. In fact, the union urged the management at the NFCA to go to the KCM and get a schedule of the salaries. The Government does not come in. Therefore, when they found that discrepancy, the workers demanded to be paid what their friends are paid. Obviously, the workers feel that their salaries should be higher. Therefore, the Government just follows the negotiations between the two parties. That is what is obtaining on the ground.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the hon. Deputy Minister promised the workers they would be paid K2 million across the board and, as a result of that ....

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: ... there have been a number of strikes on the Copperbelt.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the simple answer is the same as I gave earlier. The hon. Deputy Minister went there to facilitate and try and resolve the differences between the workers and management that arose at the mine.

I thank you, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that is the reason PF cadres all over the country are going to the major companies to pressurise them that they should pay a minimum salary of K3 million?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, once again, I will confirm that there are no PF cadres who are instigating workers to agitate for salary increments. It is the workers who, upon realising that their conditions of service were not adequately addressed by the former Government, are asking for better perks. In fact, I can confirm that it is the Opposition hon. Members who are trying to make the PF Government look irresponsible by inciting workers. In this vein, we will investigate this matter thoroughly.

I thank you, Sir.

 Interruptions

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, how much revenue loss did the Government incur as a result of this strike?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I do not have the figures yet because the loss is still being quantified. If the hon. Member can ask a new question, I will be very glad to answer it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that this responsible PF Government is willing to work with the existing investors in the mining sector for as long as they follow the laws that are in place?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to confirm that the PF Government, and I think I have stated this before on many fora, will ensure that the benefits from the mineral resources we have in this country are passed on to the people of Zambia. This is not what was done in the past. The PF Government has recognised that the investors are partners in development. It is going to work with them to extract the benefits from the mineral resources as long as, and I echo the words of His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, they respect us, respect our laws and respect our way of doing things. We shall work as partners.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, what is the minimum wage likely to be in this Government?

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa:  Mr Speaker, I mentioned earlier that the hon. Minister of Labour, Sport, and Youth is working on the minimum conditions of service and is taking his time to do a very good job. At the right time, he will release that information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, in answering one of the questions, the hon. Minister indicated that the hon. Deputy Minister was not involved in the negotiations because the Government does not come in as the negotiations are only between the unions and management. However, how does he reconcile the fact that he keeps referring to the former Government as having left a mess when he knows that the Government does not get involved?

Mr Simuusa:  Mr Speaker, I think I have been in this industry at management level and an MP long enough to know that the previous Government was involved in negotiations for conditions of service. That is why I said we are trying to clean up the mess it left behind. I said that we will oversee the negotiations. We will let the parties be free, but we shall oversee the negotiations to make sure that they are conducted smoothly.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, the PF Government has promised a reduction in the gap between the poor and rich, but we have seen, so far, through the pronouncements of the President, that everybody who is sworn in is promised a salary increase, including us. Therefore, how does it hope to reduce the gap between the rich and the poor?

Mr Simuusa:  Mr Speaker, for a start, we do not debate ourselves. Secondly, I find it hard to reconcile that question with the statement that I have just issued. 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: If the hon. Member for Kasenengwa has something she cannot freely tell us, let her table a question so that we answer it adequately.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the workers at the NFCA are still the losers since his intervention did not put the K2 million they wanted in their pockets?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, firstly, I said that the collective agreement is not yet concluded. Secondly, my mission to the NFCA was very clear. It was to make sure that the situation normalised and allow for meaningful negotiations. The situation cannot be conducive for proper dialogue and negotiation when there is tension, acrimony and issuance of ultimatums. Besides that, there was the issue of job losses. There were 2,000 workers who were being threatened with dismissal. As the PF Government, we promised to create more jobs and put more money in people’s pockets. Therefore, as a responsible Government, we cannot say that we want to create more jobs in one breath and in another, allow people to lose jobs. We cannot do that. 

Mr Speaker, I actually think that the workers are the winners in this situation. Now that the situation has gone back to normal, I would like to commend the workers of the NFCA who agreed to go back to work unconditionally.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I would like to commend them on the fact that without any pay rise or inducement, and just by talking and listening to the voice of reason and patiently wanting to respect the collective agreement, they went back to work. I would like to commend these employees who are gallant sons of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, again, I wish to confirm that those negotiations will start very shortly and I am sure that a decent package, suitable to both the employees and employers, shall be agreed and arrived at. Once this is done, both of them will be winners.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources assure this House that, once this perceived mess is cleaned up, there will be no similar occurrences on the mines?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the PF Government is slowly showing people how it will put more money in their pockets. Hardly ninety days has elapsed and already those measures on how people will have more money in their pockets are bearing fruit.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, already, fuel prices have gone down, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: … and the banks have reduced the lending rates.

Interruptions 

Mr Simuusa: This will translate into more money in their pockets. Very soon, the Budget will be announced and more measures that will put more money in the pockets of employees and Zambians at large will be put in place. Therefore, I can confirm that once these measures are in place and we have cleaned up the mess that the previous Government made, there will be more money in people’s pockets. In addition, Zambians will appreciate the measures that we, the PF Government will be putting in place.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that despite a few work stoppages here and there, the workers are very happy that the PF won the elections? Can he also confirm that the workers are coming out the way they are because they now have a platform which they were denied by the MMD Government?

Interruptions

Hon. Member: He has debated.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to confirm that all the issues and comments raised by the hon. Member are correct. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the question has been overtaken.

Hon. Government Member: Tom and Jerry!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, having heard the explanation from the hon. Minister that the hon. Deputy Minister chaired one of the negotiations and even announced an increment which was rejected by management, is this an indication that the Government has abandoned the workers and left them to continue suffering without an increment?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, again, I will clarify that the hon. Deputy Minister went there to reconcile the two parties and facilitate discussions. That is as far as his role went.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, if I heard correctly, the hon. Minister said that the previous Government left a mess as regards wages for the workers. Secondly, he said that the Government is working on instituting a minimum wage. Can he tell us whether he is aware that these issues need to be related to productivity?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Also, is the Government, in its effort to set a minimum wage, looking at the issue of productivity?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the word ‘negotiation’ implies a two-way process where the employees raise their demands and management puts across its requirements and conditions. In those negotiations, I can confirm that the issue of productivity comes in because a company cannot pay what it cannot afford. What it can afford is a function of its productivity. Therefore, I can confirm that all those issues are looked at during negotiations. For management to accept, it means that it will have done its homework and seen that this is actually possible. The only problem comes in when there is a management that is insincere where even when it knows that it can afford to pay the workers, it deliberately does not agree to pay them. That is where we have problems and that has nothing to do with productivity. I am confident that if management is sincere, it will be very clear on what it can afford and pay what it has said it can afford.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, according to the New Oxford Dictionary, the word ‘mess’ means untidy or dirt. Can the hon. Minister put it to the House how the former Government caused the mess which is being referred to considering that the mines were opened during the rule of the former Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, when I say mess, I mean disorderliness. If you want an indicator to confirm whether what I am saying is true, you just have to analyse what happened during the last elections. The MMD Government on your left …

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I apologise for disturbing the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources as he is responding to Hon. Miyutu’s question. I am surprised that the hon. Minister, who told us earlier on that he is an experienced Parliamentarian, used the word ‘mess’ which is not supposed to be used in Parliament according to the Parliamentary Handbook. Is he in order to continue using that word if, indeed, he is an experienced Parliamentarian?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The point of order is upheld and I wish to urge the hon. Minister to desist from using that word.

May the hon. Minister continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I apologise for using the word ‘mess’ and replace it with the words, ‘disorder, chaos and confusion’ to describe the condition in which the previous Government left the labour sector. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Sir, the voting pattern, especially during the last elections, clearly showed that people, especially on the Copperbelt, were not happy with the way the MMD Government used to handle labour issues, hence the vote of no confidence. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________{mospagebreak}
 
QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZAMBEZI AIRLINES LICENCE SUSPENSION

2.    Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    what circumstances led to the suspension of the operating licence for Zambezi Airlines;

(b)    what the implications of the suspension were to:

(i)    the travelling public in Zambia and the region; and 

(ii)    the airline industry in Zambia and the region; and

(c)    if the reasons for the suspension were frivolous, who would meet the opportunity and actual losses incurred by this suspension.

The Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism (Mr Lubinda) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga)): Mr Speaker, on 29th October, 2011, the Government of the Republic of Zambia suspended the Zambezi Airlines Limited’s air service permit, air operator certificate and the aircraft maintenance organisation approval.

Sir, the suspension was necessitated by serious safety concerns arising from Zambezi Airlines’ non-adherence to aviation regulations relating to aircraft maintenance, flight operations as well as having an erratic and unreliable flight schedule.

Mr Speaker, Zambezi Airlines Limited has breached the Zambian aviation regulations on more than five counts as follows:

(i)    non-adherence to aircraft maintenance regulations. Zambezi Airlines Limited was operating some of its aircraft without going through the required mandatory maintenance. For example, the airworthiness directives issued by the manufacturer of the aircraft were not observed on time and as required. This is also contrary to the Zambian aviation regulations and requirements;

(ii)    Zambezi Airlines Limited aircraft were being serviced by Jetworx of South Africa, which was previously approved by the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) of Zambia. However, the Jetworx maintenance approval expired on 27th August, 2011, and was not renewed and yet, Zambezi Airlines Limited continued servicing its aircrafts at Jetworx. This is against the provisions of the law;

(iii)    Zambezi Airlines Limited breached aviation regulations by failing to present an aircraft technical log book information relating to an aircraft involved in an incident while flying from Livingstone to Cape Town on 13th September, 2011, during which the aircraft experienced decompression, leading to its emergency decent and landing at Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula Airport. The non-submission of the technical log pages made it impossible for the regulatory authority to precisely determine what works were done and by whom on the aircraft. The airline further operated the same aircraft involved in the incident without rectifying the faulty oxygen generating units or masks, thus endangering passengers in the event of a recurrence of cabin decompression;

(iv)    the airline operated substitute aircrafts without procuring a temporary air service permit as required under Cap. 446 of the Laws of Zambia;

(v)     in addition, Zambezi Airlines Limited engaged new flight crew and allowed them to fly without them undergoing flight crew indoctrination training, which is a breach of company approved standard operating procedures; and 

(vi)    the airline allowed some of its pilots to fly in excess of regulatory prescribed maximum flight duty time.

Mr Speaker, in response to the other questions, we wish to state that the Zambia aviation industry is liberalised. As a result, there are several international air carriers that fly to and from Zambia and the region, thus providing a choice for the public. As such, passengers holding valid Zambezi Airlines Limited tickets are expected to be refunded by the airline or be re-routed in accordance with Zambia’s air service regulations.

Sir, the suspension of the Zambezi Airlines Limited’s’ certificate is based on the fact that the airline has not been adhering to aviation regulations. It is, therefore, not frivolous. The actual losses will, thus, be incurred by the airline.

Mr Speaker, I wish to state that the Government regrets this development because it is committed to supporting the involvement of the private sector in the aviation industry. Nonetheless, the priority of this Government is to ensure the safety of the travelling public. 

Sir, this responsible Government, in supporting private sector involvement in the aviation industry, will not take the safety of the travelling public for granted. It is envisaged that if Zambezi Airlines Limited implements administrative and maintenance management reforms, and thereafter, undergoes successful re-evaluation, the suspension may be lifted. We hope it can do this within six to eight weeks.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has catalogued a number of reasons behind the suspension of the operating certificate for Zambezi Airlines Limited. I will pick one of them to generate a follow-up question and that is the penalty for substituting an aircraft without permission. I would like to find out whether he is aware that as a matter of fact, Zambezi Airlines Limited have an insurance claim of US$ 8 million that has come about as a result of an accident in which a forklift that belongs to the Zambia Export Growers’ Association (ZEGA) Limited, an agent of National Airports Corporation (NAC), rammed into one of its smaller aircraft and created serious damage to its fuselage. Is he aware that the accident could have been one of the reasons it had to substitute one of its aircraft?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the insurance claim has nothing to do with the observance of safety regulations. This Government found out that Zambezi Airlines Limited was flying without observing the minimum safety standards that should be observed irrespective of its circumstances. That is why this Government decided to suspend the operating certificate of Zambezi Airlines Limited. Indeed, if Zambezi Airlines Limited has made an insurance claim, it will be compensated. Like I said in the statement, if it manages to address the concerns which have been raised, the Government will be very happy to lift the suspension so that it can continue its operations. I, therefore, wish it good luck because we would like it to continue to provide a service to the travelling public.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, when we were on the right side of this House, we argued in the case involving Zambian Airways that even though the then Government considered private sector participation in the aviation sector as a priority, it still needed to make sure that safety standards were met to safeguard the lives of the passengers. However, when the PF Government was on this side of this House, maybe, due to political … 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let the hon. Member complete her question.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection. 

Through you, Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister who gave the response to this question confirm that when they were on this side (left) of the House, it was only due to political expedience that they argued against the decision taken in the case involving Zambian Airways and that now that they are in Government, they are making a total turnaround.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wish to state that this extremely responsible Government in arriving at the decision to suspend the operating licence of Zambezi Airlines Limited, primarily concerned itself with the safety of the travelling public. It did not in any way concern itself with the financial obligations of this company. I wish to remind my colleague about the matter that she was referred to by stating that contrary to what we have done, when the MMD Government tabled the matter concerning Zambian Airways in the House, the issue which it was concerned about was the financial position of the airline. Our argument then, was that they were disturbing the processes in which the creditors and debtors of the airline were engaged at that time. To date, those people who used to sit here should be ashamed that they have not released a report regarding their investigations into the operations of the airline. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: They have held people at ransom for such a long time. To the contrary, this Government answered the question raised by Hon. Nkombo immediately because it found it extremely important. In our response, we did not want to dwell on anything other than the expert decision that was made by the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA). I would like to state that there has been no shift in positions on our part. The good thing is that we are more responsible people than they were. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I think that the concern at this point should not be whether the reason for the suspension of the operating licence of Zambezi Airlines Limited was for safety or financial issues. Is the suspension of the operating licence of that airline the right approach by this Government, considering the fact that we do not have any other Zambian airline which services international routes? Is this the best you could do, that is, to disempower Zambians who are trying to run an airline based on one simple reason as was the case in the Zambian Airways situation?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, a responsible farmer will suspend the operations of an ox-cart until it is worked on, when he or she realises that an axial is bound to break and in the process injure the oxen. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: The farmer will not take a risk. I am sure that my good friend knows that the life of his oxen is very important. He would rather suspend the carrying of wood or firewood for a few days to, firstly, repair the ox-cart. What more when it comes to the safety of human beings? Imagine, what would happen if we did not suspend the operating license of the airline and God forbid, there was an accident in the sky. I am sure that Hon. Hamududu would not even ask his question. We are doing this in the interest of our country and in the interest of the travelling public, including Hon. Hamududu who flies Zambezi Airlines  Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to state that the action taken is in conformity with the civil aviation requirements. Zambezi Airlines Limited has been accused of so many categorised failures by the hon. Minister. Can he tell us when the investigations into its operations started and when they ended? Can he also provide the investigation report to this Parliament for us to see the investigation processes that Zambezi Airlines Limited was subjected to? I have asked this question having been in the aviation industry for the past thirty years.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, it is acceptable for my colleague, Hon. Hamududu, who has never been in the aviation industry to ask such a question. However, it is not acceptable for a pilot who has been involved in the management of aircraft in Zambia for thirty years to ask such a question. Worse still, there is a report which is still being awaited by us for an air crash which the hon. Member for Keembe was responsible for. I will not name it because he knows it.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, nonetheless, let me state that the question he asked …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let the hon. Minister continue with his response.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, let me state that since the hon. Member from Keembe is from the aviation industry, he should know that there is no law that compels the DCA to publish its investigations. The DCA has given us the reasons which led to the suspension of the operating licence of Zambezi Airlines Limited. If the hon. Member finds value in asking for the investigation report, may he, please, through you, Mr Speaker, make his request known to us? For now, we are responding to the question as regards what led to the suspension and I am sure we have adequately done so.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, if I heard my colleague clearly, he indicated to this House and to the nation at large that the suspension of the licence of Zambezi Airlines Limited may not be lifted despite its fulfilling the requirements. This means that the decision to suspend the licence is discretional as the Government may decide to give the licence back or it may not. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: That was the answer. 

Why are you giving a discretional answer to a legal requirement of fulfilling obligations on the part of Zambezi Airlines Limited? 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, let me just correct my friend. I did not say that we may lift the suspension despite Zambezi Airlines Limited meeting the requirements. I said that this Government may lift the suspension in the event of Zambezi Airlines Limited meeting the requirements or being in conformity with the safety precautions and standards.

Mr Speaker, as regards the hon. Member question on why we are conferring the right of discretion on ourselves, wherever there is a need for an application, the approving authority is mandated, by law, to assess the application and arrive at a decision based on its assessment of the application. This is the reason I am using the word ‘may’. It is not mandatory that every application receives a licence. Otherwise, what would be the reason for the regulation and the application? This is the law …

Interruptions    

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lubinda: … and, in case my friend wishes to peruse it, it says that the authority may lift the suspension. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.    

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether Zambezi Airlines Limited owes the National Airports Corporation, and if so, how much? 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I already stated that the Government regrets the suspension of this airline’s operations. We wish it well and wish that it can manage to remedy the situation and bring its aircraft back to flying. This being the case, we are very careful, as a responsible Government, not to delve into the financial position of Zambezi Airlines Limited. This, as a matter of fact, is outside the question. We would like to limit ourselves to the technical aspect. If, therefore, anyone has interest in knowing the financial standing of Zambezi Airlines Limited, they have other avenues to use to get that information and not ask through this question. 

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm to this House whether the blacklisting of Zambia by the European Union (EU) has been suspended or cancelled, and if not, what is the implication of the step that has been taken by the Government on this blacklisting? Furthermore, what measures are being taken to ensure that this problem is addressed expeditiously? 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, first of all, the blacklisting of Zambia by the EU is a completely new question. The hon. Member of Parliament who asked this question was responsible for this ministry at the time that Zambia was blacklisted and he owes it to Zambia to explain why it was blacklisted. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: He owes it to Zambia to explain why they left Government without resolving this matter. Let me state that this is a completely new question. If he can put a new question, we will come and give the answer, which the hon. Member himself already knows. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lukulu East.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. 

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, major airlines such as the British Airways are able to run for years not because they have money, but through the help of their governments that ensure that they meet the required standards. Why is this new Government finding it necessary to only suspend and not ensure that it works side by side with the local airline, Zambezi Airlines Limited, to aid it in meeting the required standards and maintaining it? Why has the Government found it necessary to suspend the operations? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I stated in my response that the aviation industry in Zambia is liberalised. Zambezi Airlines Limited is a private entity in which the Government has no shares, whatsoever. The airline has not offered shares to the Government, in which it has not shown interest in buying.  

We are not able to use public funds to invest in a private entity. We have asked Zambezi Airlines Limited to make sure that it brings its aircraft to serviceable standards so that it continues to operate as a private entity. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, in the last few years, two local airlines have stopped operating. This is cause for worry to the Zambians and the Government. Recent reports are that tourist arrivals in this country have reduced because of the suspension of the Zambezi Airlines Limited operating licence. I would like to find out whether the Government will request the Zambian Airways, which the hon. Minister said had no problems with safety, to start operating to fill the vacuum that has been left by Zambezi Airlines Limited. 

Laughter 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, there are many airlines that have applied to fly in Zambia and are all being assessed. When the assessment is made, they will start to fly into Zambia. There is no interest, whatsoever, in any particular airline because, like I said earlier, the aviation industry in Zambia is liberalised. I just would like to inform my dear friend that there are many international airlines that are knocking on the doors, especially after these men and women were declared winners of the elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: They now see that Zambia is a worthwhile destination. 

I thank you, Sir. 
 
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, who is answering the questions so well, why most African governments think alike.

Laughter

Mr Simbao: They always do the same things that the governments before them did, targeting and frustrating citizens.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Senga Hill, particularly, for confessing that his Government was vindictive to citizens when it closed down an airline.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Let me confirm to him that this Government is not vindictive at all. It is willing to go the whole length to support Zambian citizens invest in their economy. In the interest of the continued business of Zambezi Airlines Limited, this responsible Government asked this airline to stop flying lest it caused a catastrophe from which it may not have recovered. We, as a Government, are doing this because we are responsible and want to protect the private investors, unlike those, as we have heard, who were being vindictive to citizens.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that Jetworx was not operating by as late as August and so should not have serviced aircraft for Zambezi Airlines Limited. I have in my possession a letter from Jetworx dated as late as 31st October, confirming that one aircraft 9J/7ZIC had actually passed all the checks except the two that were still in South Africa, the reason for which Zambezi Airlines Limited was hiring other aircraft. If he is aware, why was the certificate cancelled when one aircraft passed the checks? I am ready to lay this letter on the Table of the House.

Hon. Government Members: Lay it! Ubufi!

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to commend Hon. Muntanga for that question because it shows that he has continued to be thorough with his parliamentary work by researching before he comes to the House. In answering the question, let me read what I said so that Hon. Muntanga can understand clearly and see the difference. 

Sir, I stated that Zambezi Airlines Limited aircraft were being serviced by Jetworx of South Africa, which was previously approved by the Directorate of Civil Aviation (DCA). However, the Jetworx maintenance approval with the DCA expired on 27th August, 2011. That means that if Jetworx serviced any aircraft, which I stated here, it did so without the approval of the DCA. If it serviced Zambezi Airlines Limited aircraft without the approval of the DCA, that service is not recognised by Zambia and it is invalid. It is on that basis that the certificate of operation of Zambezi Airlines Limited was suspended. We did not argue that its aircraft was not being serviced, but that it was serviced by a company that did not have the approval of our aviation authority.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_________

MOTIONS

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 39

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Order 39 be suspended in order to enable the House to consider the Motion to constitute the Public Accounts Committee for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. This is a subject that this House had considered and decided upon in the current Session, on Tuesday, 25th October, 2011.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Yes, Mr Speaker. I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mutati: Sir, I thank you profoundly for allowing me to move this very important Motion today.

Mr Speaker, the objective of this Motion is to suspend Standing Order 39 which prohibits the House from debating a matter that it has dispensed within the same session. In seeking to suspend Standing Order 39, I am using the privilege of Standing Order 214 which provides for the House to revisit its decision, within the same session, if considered necessary on approval of Mr Speaker.

Sir, on Tuesday, 25th October, 2011, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presented a Motion to this House to constitute the Public Accounts Committee for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly and, after deliberations and voting, the Motion was negatived.

We, on your left, Mr Speaker, objected to the constitution of the Public Accounts Committee principally on the ground that the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury, which has a direct bearing on the work of the Public Accounts Committee, had been abolished by the Executive. We were of the view that, first and foremost, the act of abolishing the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury was done outside the law as it is only this House which is empowered to abolish that office. Secondly, we were of the view that the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury was such an important office to the financial management of and, indeed, the governance of this nation that it should not be abolished, but be maintained and, if anything, strengthened in our quest to enhance accountability and national development.

Mr Speaker, we, on this side of the House, argued that, among others, the function of the Secretary to the Treasury was to appoint other controlling officers in the entire Government system and hold them accountable for the utilisation of public resources that are entrusted to them. This role marries with that of the Public Accounts Committee, which is responsible for scrutinising expenditure of public resources. We were of the strong view that, without the Secretary to the Treasury, the role of the Public Accounts Committee would be greatly compromised hence our stance to vote against the constitution of the Public Accounts Committee last week.

Sir, it has come to our attention that the Secretary to the Treasury was appointed and sworn in on Thursday, 27th October, 2011, by His Excellency the President. We are also reliably informed that a controlling officer of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has been appointed. This is as it should be. In this regard, we, on this side of the House, are of the view that the House can now proceed to establish the Public Accounts Committee.

Mr Speaker, this is a straightforward Motion and I am sure that the House will unanimously support it and in so doing, allow the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to resubmit the Motion to constitute the Public Accounts Committee which I am sure will also be supported by both sides.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Nkombo: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to second this non-controversial Motion to suspend Standing Order 39 in order to allow the House to consider a Motion to reconstitute the Public Accounts Committee which was moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte, a matter that was dealt with on Tuesday 25th October, 2011. 

Secondly, allow me also to thank the mover of the Motion for the manner in which he ably deliberated on this non-controversial Motion. In seconding it, I would have raised most of the points he has raised to ask our colleagues on your right to bring this Motion back on the Floor of this House. I wish to, however, state that coming from the Opposition, we will continue to reiterate our position, which we have done from time to time, that it is never our desire to oppose the Government for the sake of it. However, we will oppose the Government when we deem it fit and for as long as it does not do things the right way.

Mr Speaker, we have a collective responsibility, as hon. Members, to clearly represent the interests and aspirations of all the people of different who gave us the responsibility to look after their interests and aspirations across the country regardless political divide or affiliations. Let me make it clear that we will not oppose for the sake of opposing but, in the same breath, we shall not give blind support for the sake of supporting even when things are clearly and definitively wrong as the case was on 25th October, 2011. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the circumstances that preceded the collapse of the Motion were very clear. It was because the Executive initially and adamantly did not apply the law by fulfilling the requirements of the Public Finance Act No. 15 of 2004 as ably indicated by Hon. Mutati who said that the abolishment of the Office of Secretary to the Treasury was a breach of the law. 

Mr Speaker, before I second this Motion, let me quickly take the opportunity to place on record a humble correction of the post Motion collapse event of Tuesday 25th October, 2011 and the pronouncements as attributed by the Executive through His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. He indicated that hon. Members of this House decided to vote against this Motion because they did not want to be accountable to the electorate. He also indicated that hon. Members wanted to protect the immunity of the former Head of State, a subject which was totally unrelated, and also that hon. Members were only interested in increasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are interested in this, but the matter was totally unrelated. He also said that the Public Accounts Committee had only one PF Member, a statement which was also wrong because they were two. 

All these statements, Sir, were completely untrue and, in my view, just there to try and make the Opposition look as though it would like to do everything possible to frustrate the Government of the day. This is untrue. Now that we have a Secretary to the Treasury, and that he has been sworn in, allow me the rare privilege and honour to second without any reservation the Motion that Standing Order 39 be suspended so as to enable this House to constitute the Public Accounts Committee.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, the pronouncements that were made after 25th October, 2011 also gave unwarranted threats to dissolve this House laced with another threat to go back to the polls. I insist that the threats were unwarranted. This attitude must be discouraged forthwith and, instead, be substituted with embracing the tenets of democracy as dictated by our Constitution. In this regard, I second the Motion that this House do suspend Standing Order 39 in order to allow the House to constitute the Public Accounts Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to make some remarks on the Motion before us which I fully support.

Mr Speaker, I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to clarify the real reasons the Opposition acted in the manner that it did when the proposal was put on the Floor of the House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I would like to make a clarification because the media did not give a clear explanation why the Opposition acted in the manner it did.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, out there, …

Lieutenant General Shikapwasha: A PF media.

Dr Musokotwane: … a picture that we were just being irresponsible or just trying to hamper the Government to act given the mandate that it was given was drawn. Therefore, we need to clarify this.

Mr Speaker, the interest of the Opposition is to steer the Government in the course of good governance. We want to ensure that the Government acts in accordance with the law because this is what the public expects. This is also what it has said and so if it attempts to steer outside the law, we have the responsibility to ensure that we put them back on track.

Mr Speaker, this is not theory because we are speaking from experience. Since the PF came into Government, we have seen a number of transgressions of the law. We have seen the heads of the Anti-Corruption Commission removed from office without following the due process of the law. We have seen the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury abolished outside the law. As recently as a few days ago, we saw an attempt to appoint people who are still facing criminal charges to high office. Therefore, our attempt to try and put the Government in the due process of law is not theoretical because we have seen a tendency to act outside the law.

Mr Speaker, let me now, …

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Is the point of order procedural?

Mr Chitotela: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa in order to mislead this House by saying that the President appointed the Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) outside constitutional requirements when the Anti-Corruption Act, 2010 clearly states that …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Chitotela: … the President has the mandate and power to fire the Director-General of the ACC based on incapacitation or inability to perform? I require your very serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Clearly, the point of order is not procedural. I would like to urge the House that the circular on points of order should not just be read, but studied so that we can make progress. This is not a procedural issue and all of you here will have an opportunity to debate the Motion. Therefore, if you have any disagreement, you will disagree in the context of the debate.

May the hon. Member continue?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Long live the Chair! That is a good ruling.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for that protection.

I now look at the Public Finance Act, 2004. Section 6 of this Act outlines a number of functions that the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury plays. For example, just to pick the key ones, it states that the Secretary to the Treasury is responsible for preparing the annual consolidated statements of assets and liabilities, including a statement of the public debt of the Republic as well as consolidated revenue statements. Another function is submitting the statements I have referred to above to the Auditor-General for examination and certification. This office also consolidates all audited annual revenue statements, appropriation accounts and balance sheets for incorporation in the financial reports to be laid before the National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I could read the other functions, but the key point here is that for the Public Accounts Committee to perform its work, it needs a report from the Auditor-General. The report of the Auditor-General comes about because the Secretary to the Treasury prepares financial statements that are submitted to the Auditor-General for auditing. The Auditor-General then submits a report to the Public Accounts Committee on which this particular Committee bases its work. It is clear from these statements that in the absence of the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury, by law, there is no one mandated to provide public financial statements.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! Mwaona manje.

Dr Musokotwane: In such a scenario, there will be nothing for the Auditor-General to audit and if that is the case, it follows that the Public Accounts Committee will have no work to do.

Mr Speaker, this side of the House decided to oppose the constitution of the Public Accounts Committee in the interest of good governance and ensuring that the Committee can actually work and not just do cosmetic work. The Secretary to the Treasury must be appointed. Therefore, this office must not be abolished. We are very happy that this office has now been re-established and, therefore, the financial statements will be prepared and the Auditor-General will be able to do her work for the Public Accounts Committee to also do its work. 

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, believe that we have been very useful to the people of Zambia in steering the Government in the course of good governance and not to act haphazardly without following the law. With this office in place, I believe that there is nothing that stands in our way of ensuring that the Public Accounts Committee is now endorsed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Before we proceed, I would like to guide the House. The Motion on the Floor is procedural and, therefore, it must be debated it in the context of procedure. Please, bear that in mind.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor. Perception is a very interesting concept and, in most cases, people wish to believe what they want even when sometimes the facts on the ground might be indicating otherwise. In this case, the perception created out there, as the mover, seconder and hon. Member for Liuwa have all stated, was that the Opposition opposed the Government Motion because it did not like the names on the list of the Public Accounts Committee or that it was scared of being audited.

Mr Speaker, to the contrary, and I think that the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa has belaboured the point that the principle of opposing this Motion by the Opposition was to ensure that we do the first things first and that we do not bring the cart before the horse. In that regard, I am very pleased that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning listened to the people of Zambia through this House and advised the Executive accordingly, as evidenced by the fact that His Excellency the President has, indeed, sworn-in a new Secretary to the Treasury. 

Mr Speaker, as I have said in my preamble, perception is a very difficult concept and, once we give a wrong perception, it is very difficult to clear it and this can erode confidence in the Government. I beg your indulgence to illustrate my point using a number of examples on perception. Regarding an incident that happened a number of years ago, to date, there is still the perception that the then hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, during a swine fever outbreak, abused his office to gain pecuniary advantage.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: That is the perception out there. Whether it is a fact or not, we still do not know. The point is that is how it is perceived and this is why perception is complicated.

Mr Muntanga: What is that? What did you say?

Laughter 

Mr Siliya: Mr Speaker, another example is that of the MEZZAF saga. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing at the time, is perceived to have gained pecuniary advantage in this matter. Whether this is just a perception or a fact is not clear. The fact is that it is out there.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, many times, I have heard Hon. Muntanga refer to the then Minister of Health regarding the International Conference on AIDS and Sexually Transmitted Infections in Africa (ICASA) saga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: He has said that she corrupted the system for pecuniary advantage. Whether this is a fact or merely a perception is something I do not know.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order! We will not make progress.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the late hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Tetamashimba, swore to the nation that if his predecessor, the then Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Masebo, was not prosecuted for the hearses and the procurement of canters for the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign, he would resign. He said this because, in his own perception, he was convinced that Hon. Masebo had corrupted the system.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, again, I am discussing perception.

Laughter 

Hon. Members: The Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) perception.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I am aware that everybody is already aware of the perception on ZAMTEL.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, a few days ago, I was speaking to my dear friend, Hon. Mulongoti, who was one time Minister of Works and Supply. I reminded him that The Post Newspapers worked very hard to have him removed from his position. This is because, according to their perception, including that of many Members in this House, especially on that side of the House, maybe, because he drives a Jaguar, he had corrupted the system.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, whether it is a fact or it is merely a perception, I do not know.

Mr Muntanga: A perception.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, in the recent days, we have read in the press that the Government has single sourced a contract to renovate State House and hon. Minister’s houses. Perhaps, there is a law that provides for this, but the perception is that in less than ninety days in office, the PF Government has already begun to corrupt the system.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Perception!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I am merely discussing perception.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, yesterday, Hon. Shikapwahsa debated very passionately that he believed, according to his perception, my dear friend, the Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism, has corrupted the system by appointing media heads even if there are no boards. He believed the hon. Minister had also corrupted the system because the jobs were not advertised and that is against good governance. This is yet another perception.

Laughter 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, this is why I am very happy that the new hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has done the right thing because we do not want him to be tempted by the perception …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: … that he has already begun corrupting the system by attempting to abolish the position of Secretary to the Treasury unconstitutionally.

Mr Kapyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Point of jealous.

Ms Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyongo: Mr Speaker, you have just guided this House to debate on the matter which is on the Floor.

Laughter 

Mr Kapyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to start giving the House perceptions when she is supposed to debate about the Motion on the Floor?

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I indicated earlier that the Motion under discussion is procedural and I will still urge hon. Members to avoid getting into substantive issues. Let us restrict ourselves to the Motion on the Floor. I know it is tempting for one to digress, but we need to restrict ourselves to the Motion on the Floor.

Mr Muntanga: Perception!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member may continue, keeping that ruling in mind.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, thank you …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 16:30 hours.{mospagebreak}

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was merely emphasising the point that there is a perception that this House can be so irresponsible, as to purposefully defeat a Government Motion simply to frustrate the Government. That is purely a perception just like other perceptions. There are many people who continue to believe that in this country, presidents are not actually in charge even if they are elected by the people. They believe that it is the The Post Newspapers that are in charge in this country. Whether that is a fact or a perception, I do not know.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, maybe, to settle some of these matters, we should ask Hon. Lubinda and Transparency International Zambia to spearhead other tribunals such as the ZAMTEL one. This way, Hon. Muntanga will stop abusing Hon. Professor Nkandu Luo on ICASA.

Laughter 

Ms Siliya: Now that His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, has ascended to the second most important office in this country, maybe, we need another tribunal so that these matters stop concerning him.

Laughter 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, my only concern is that if we take that route of more tribunals, another perception will be created. The perception will be that, again, the Government has begun to corrupt the system because it wants its hon. Ministers to benefit allowances from committees and tribunals. That will be another perception.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, here is a fact that we are suspending Standing Order No. 39 so that we can attend to a matter that we dealt with last week. It is very important that we continue to appreciate that the rules or laws that we, ourselves, make in this House should be followed. Indeed, the perception that can be very difficult to correct has now been corrected. Indeed, as the Constitution stipulates, there is still an Office of the Secretary to the Treasury.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the perception that in a hang Parliament such as ours, the Opposition will always try to frustrate the Government is also not a right perception. We expect that, many times, we will vote with the Government when it brings progressive Bills. 

Mr Speaker, we expect those on your right side of the House, especially the Backbenchers, many of whom are free thinkers representatives of their constituencies, to vote with us on this side of the House on matters that are of national interest or common interest. 

Mr M. H. Malama: Question!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the English have a very interesting saying, …

Mr Muntanga: He is not a free thinker!

Ms Siliya: … that it is sometimes better to remain quiet and let people think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and clear all the doubt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, we expect that there will be many instances the Backbenchers on your right side, the free thinkers, representing their constituencies on matters of common interest such as development for their constituencies vis-a-vis the CDF will vote with us. On matters such as the one referred to by His Excellency the President in this House of upgrading hon. Members of Parliament’s conditions of service, the Backbenchers will vote with us on this side of the House. I am sure that even hon. Members of the Executive will vote with us on some of these matters.

Mr Speaker, now that I have illustrated how complicated the matter of perception is and, especially as it relates to the issue that this House can be perceived to be so irresponsible as to want to frustrate the Government, let me point out that we have now corrected that perception. Our argument was that the right thing to do was to ensure that we have in place a Secretary to the Treasury first. Thereafter, it would follow that we have a Public Accounts Committee whose role will now be to supervise the Secretary to the Treasury in whose office the Budget is anchored.

Mr Speaker, I support the Motion and I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Is there any contrary view to this Motion? May the hon. Member for Lunte wind up.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, let me thank the hon. Members who have ably debated this Motion. As I wind up the debate, let me borrow a wise saying from the East that “ If you cannot stand the heat, do not go into the kitchen.”

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Question put and agreed to.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to resubmit the following hon. Members of Parliament to constitute the Public Accounts Committee for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly:

Mr H. H. Hamududu, MP;
Mrs M. Imemnda, MP;
Mr M. Mbulakulima, MP;
Mr C. Matafwali, MP;
Mr A. Milambo, MP;
Mr P. Mucheleka, MP;
Mr C. Mulenga, MP;
Mr V. Mwale, MP; and
Mr G. Namulambe, MP.

Mr Speaker, the Public Accounts Committee is one of the most important Committees of Parliament as it provides the oversight role on the Executive on behalf of this august House.

As earlier submitted, the PF Government is committed to ensuring accountability of public resources for the good of all citizens. I would like to further emphasise that the Public Accounts Committee plays a critical role by holding all spheres of the Government accountable in the management of public resources. This Committee is expected to act a watchdog of the whole Government and ensure regularity and probity in the management of public resources.

The commitment of this Government on accountability and transparency cannot be over emphasised. It can be seen from the proposed list of members of this Committee that they are exclusively hon. Members of the Opposition except for the two Government Backbenchers.

Mr Speaker, I expect this resubmission to be supported by all well-meaning hon. Members of this august House if this House is to live up to its responsibility and seriousness of intent.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, as I stand to support this Committee, I am pleased to state that Parliament has its own rules on bringing back what it decided upon. The suspension of Standing Order 39, which we have agreed to, ensures that this Public Accounts Committee is approved. When we opposed the Motion, we had reasons that we have mentioned in our debates.

Mr Speaker, while we support this Committee wholeheartedly, I would like to remind the House of my brother’s statement informing our colleagues in Government that when they do the right thing, …

Mr Nkombo: Me? I am your nephew.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … we will have an alliance with them. It is the hon. Member for Monze Central who said that. In this case, we now have an alliance with you, my friends on the other (Government) side. We will definitely approve the proposed list of members of the Public Accounts Committee. However, if you do wrong things and go against the tenets of democracy, we will not support you. As you are aware and as democrats, Parliament has its own rules. If by rejecting some things in the House leads us to threats of dissolving Parliament, it is a condition of dissolution that I am prepared to face.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: It is just that we do not need to be reminded that we should vote in one way. Therefore, for this particular Motion, because the right thing has been done, I stand to support the constitution of the Committee in question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Speaker, I am aware that I had no opportunity to debate the Suspension of Standing Order 39. First and foremost, I would like to wholly support the Motion on the Floor of this House to adopt the Committee of this House. This Public Accounts Committee is not a committee of the Executive as misrepresented outside this House. It is your Committee. It is constituted under Standing Order No. 153 of Parliament pursuant to Article 117 of the Constitution of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I also would like to state one very cardinal principle that I believe in and would like to share with hon. Members. On 6th October, 2011, I stood before you and took an oath to defend the Constitution of this country and all the laws that are made pursuant to that Constitution. On the day we resolved to oppose the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I was living up to my principle of protecting the Constitution of this country and the laws we make in this House. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is very cardinal. I did not want to be punished by you for abrogating the oath I made on the Floor of this House. I have a duty and responsibility to defend all the laws that are in our statutes and the Constitution of this country, and I shall do that as long I am a Member of this House.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to our colleagues that, as we constitute this Public Accounts Committee today, we should ensure that its decisions are implemented by the Executive. It is not unusual for Parliament to make resolutions to be implemented by the Executive. Collectively, the Government is accountable to this House. There are so many cardinal decisions that have been made by the Public Accounts Committee, but no action, whatsoever, has been taken. There were hon. Members of the House, who are now members of the public, and others who are still serving, who have been cited by the Public Accounts Committee for intransigence, but no action has been taken. Members of the public look forward to seeing that all the decisions and resolutions on the embezzlements that will take place after the approval of this Committee are atteneded to seriously. It does not augur well for this House to continuously debate issues of embezzlement of public funds without taking any action.

Sir, I am aware that my colleagues on that side, like my very good friend, Hon. Lubinda, used to make lamentations on this matter on this Floor. The times for lamentations are over for him. He is my colleague. It is now his responsibility to ensure that the good things we used to discuss with him in and outside this House are implemented.

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, His Honour, the Vice-President of this country, Hon. Dr Scott, was very forthright in debating issues of corruption and the misuse of public resources. It is now incumbent upon him to ensure that all the decisions on all those who are to be held to account and those who have been found wanting by embezzling of funds are not appointed to the Government positions. They should not be given positions of authority where they shall embezzle more for them to have more money in their pockets. That should not be allowed.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: I have no doubt in my mind that my good colleague, Hon. Dr Scott, will ensure that is done. 

Finally, now that I have noted that His Honour the Vice-President is in the House, I would like to thank him so much for ensuring that our members in the Opposition, especially in the UPND, who worked tirelessly with them to ensure that they win, against our wishes, are now diplomats and executives. All the other good things that members of the PF cannot get have been given to our members.

I thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the Floor.

Sir, I would like to be one of those who wish to put on record their support for the Committee composition that has been brought to this House. In supporting this Motion, I would like to say that it is good that it has come back to the Floor of this House and that our colleagues on your left, who had decided to go the other way, have realised that ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kalaba: ... it is good to come back. 

Mr Speaker, on 21st October, 2011, His Honour the Vice-President clearly told this House that the Office of Secretary to the Treasury was still there. It is good that the holder of that position was sworn in according to Government procedure. The Government has procedures and we should allow it to operate the way it should.

Mr Speaker, it is high time we began leaving sectional or partisan politics because the people of this country expect so much from all of us in this House. They expect us to stop the pettiness of politics ...

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I do not stand to raise unnecessary points of order, but I am now compelled to stand on a serious point of order. We have just smoothly revisited a very important Motion in whose debate we indicated why we had decided not to vote with the Government last Tuesday, 25th October, 2011. Is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that we had gone astray when, as a matter of fact, it is the Government that did so by trying to uphold an illegality? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The procedural Motion relating to Standing Order 39 has been fully debated, exhausted and eventually endorsed by the House. We are now considering another Motion presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Therefore, I would urge hon. Members to, as much as possible, restrict themselves to the Motion that is currently on the Floor.

The hon. Member for Bahati may continue.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that more often than not this country has sometimes failed to develop the way it should because of the pettiness that is embroiled in politics. 

Mr Speaker, I can illustrate this by the history of the Constitution reviews that have taken place in this country. We have had five Constitution review commissions simply because people could not agree on issues that were straight forward.

Mr Muntanga: It is you!

Mr Kalaba: In the final analysis, we have remained with institutions such as the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) that yielded nothing apart from putting money in our colleagues’ pockets.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, we are saying that the time to move on is now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: The time to bury bitterness and hatred is over.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: It is important that we work as a team.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of this House represent people with various interests and views. It is, therefore, cardinal that hon. Members take it upon themselves to seriously reflect on the intentions that they brought to this House. Sometimes, we want to flex our muscles and show who is stronger and who is weaker. However, that is not the point. I had the chance to google the hon. Members who are in the Public Accounts Committee. You will find that they bring with them various interests and experiences. This simply shows that even in diversity, there can be unity. I hope that we have all learnt our lessons not to drag and waste the tax-payer’s time by trying to use trivialities to escape the task that is before us. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I would also like to comment on an issue that was raised in this House regarding public officers who appear before the Public Accounts Committee. I have had an opportunity to appear before the Public Accounts Committee when I was a Government worker. You could see that most of our controlling officers were not prepared to appear before the Public Accounts Committee. It is important that when public officers appear before that Committee, they prepare themselves because they should give the solid information to this institution that the public expects. 

In supporting the Motion, I would say that it is incumbent upon all of us in this House, Hon. Muntanga included, … 

Laughter

Mr Kalaba: … not to antagonise each other.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is that man in order …

Hon. Member: He has a name!

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Is the hon. Member for Bahati, who replaced Chimbaka in size and confusion, in order to mention me, when I am listening to him quietly, and make it look as though there is any matter of controversy between him and me when he has a matter of controversy with himself?

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that there was no reason for the hon. Member to be singled out. The hon. Member on the Floor is addressing the Chair and the House at large. I do not see any reason why Hon. Muntanga should be particularly singled out. That is a recipe for controversy, which should be avoided.  

The hon. member may continue.

Laughter

Mr Kalaba: In supporting this Motion, I would like to say that the issue of wrong perceptions should not even be raised in this debate because the issues before this House are serious. When we begin to talk about perceptions, we run away from reality. Sometimes, when you are trying to cleanse yourself by throwing mud at others, you do not cleanse yourself. What is important is to explain yourself properly, then people will hear you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: If you start drawing this one and that one into your debate, people will see through you and know that you have issues to do with RP Capital.

Laughter

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, this Motion is straightforward. Therefore, I would not like to waste the House’s time except to say that this is a progressive Motion. I encourage everyone in this House to be progressive in future and give Zambians an opportunity to progress. We should not waste their time unnecessarily.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members of Parliament. They have debated this Motion in accordance with their rights as enshrined in the Constitution. We all have a common interest in strengthening the governance systems of our country.

Mr Muntanga: That is important.

Mr Chikwanda: I will embrace their views in the context that of all of us wanting to strengthen the governance of this House. The opposition to the Motion, when I moved it on 25th of October, 2011, without any disrespect to the hon. Members, …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: … was based on the misconception that the Office of the Secretary to the Treasury had been abolished. There may has been that intimation, …

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: … but, in reality, the office has been there and the person to hold it had been appointed. Mr Speaker, the lesson for all of us is simply that, in life, very often, the perceptions matter more than reality.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: For me, this is the point I made in the interest of Africa in the White House in 1981…

Interruption

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chikwanda: … when my colleague, Mr Vernon Mwaanga and I had the honour of talking to the American Administration at the highest level. We talked to the Vice-President. The Americans sent Dr Chester Crocker to Pretoria, but did not bother to ask him to stop in the African capitals to tell the Africans what they were doing. So I said, ‘‘Vice-President, it may be, in reality, that what you are doing is not bad as you want to enlist the friendship of the South African Government in the hope that you influence them in the right direction, but you have not addressed the issue of perceptions. The way it appears in the eyes of the Africans is that you together with the racist regime are working against the blacks because you have never bothered to consult them.’’ Vice-President Bush paid me a compliment saying, “Alex, what you have said is right. It was also said by one of the respected American leaders and, coincidentally, he sat on the chair on which you are sitting.” Therefore, the issue of perception and reality are quite inter-related and important. In reality, perception can matter more than the reality. Therefore, let us not belabour these issues. The point is that we have all resolved to support the Motion in the spirit of togetherness.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I hope this is the spirit in which we will entrench in the interest of serving our country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: I would like to assure you that my ministry is strengthening accountability in the management of public resources. The Auditor-General’s office is strong, but it reports scams that have taken place and may be irreversible. Our thrust in the ministry is to strengthen the Office of the Accountant-General so that it is strong and has adequate mechanism, capacity and resources to pre-empt wrongdoing. Unless we do this and establish effective systems of accountability, some things that are dear to us in our democratic process, such as devolution, will not be possible. We will always send money to the lower levels of Government for it to be pocketed by people.

Therefore, we are doing everything to strengthen accountability by strengthening the institutions that will help us prevent acts of impropriety, which have retarded the development of this country. In forty-seven years, this country has not progressed much, in terms of development except for the increase in population by more than 400 per cent. At the time of Independence, the population was three million, but now, it is at fourteen million. On the other hand, the formal sector employment has only increased from only 400,000 to 600,000. This is a 25 per cent increase. That mismatch between the population and formal sector employment increase says a lot. Thus, we do not have the time to settle scores. 

Interruptions

Mr Chikwanda: We should all put our efforts together to develop Zambia. We should all concentrate on creating a sustainable upward development thrust for this country. 

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members for their magnanimity in supporting the Motion and also for their contributions. For me, having not been in the House for a long time, I am impressed by the high calibre of the hon. Members in the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr D. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to make my maiden speech on my return to this august House.

Mr Speaker, I shall also discuss the Address of His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, to this House on Friday, 18th October, 2011.

Sir, I wish to join other hon. Members in congratulating you on your election to the esteemed position of Speaker. I also congratulate the Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House on their election. Further, I wish to congratulate the Clerk and her staff on the honour that they continue to give this House.

Mr Speaker, let me also join the millions of Zambians in congratulating President Michael Chilufya Sata on his well-deserved election as President of this great country, Zambia. I have no doubt that, with the support of all the Zambians, he will steer this country to greater heights.

Sir, let me from the outset also talk about the people of Mkaika Constituency. I would like to congratulate them most sincerely on the honour they bestowed on me on 20th September, 2011, when they re-elected me their Member of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, I view my re-election as an inspiring manifestation of the high esteem in which I am held by the people of that great constituency, Mkaika. I hope that no matter what the future holds for me, God will always shower his blessings upon me and give me strength and wisdom to fulfill my responsibilities during the next five years.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, to all of you, hon. Members of this House, I say congratulations on winning your elections. In you, my colleagues, the nation should have hope that you will stand and defend the national honour and ensure that this Parliament is truly a repository of people’s hopes and aspirations. Our voices should act as a shield for the protection of the silent majority.

Sir, let me congratulate His Honour the Vice-President, all the hon. Ministers and their hon. Deputies on their appointments to those important offices. In particular, let me congratulate the new hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Alexander B. Chikwanda, and his Deputy on their appointments to that very important ministry in which I served as hon. Deputy Minister. I have a lot of respect for Hon. Chikwanda on account of his distinguished record both in the public life and the private sector.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech contains many important pronouncements. I can safely say that it is forward-looking on a number of issues. 

Sir, as you may be aware, I represent the people of Mkaika, which is a rural constituency. The high poverty levels in the country that the President talked about on Page 7 of his speech, affect rural areas the most. This is why I cannot agree more with the President that the challenge of his Government is to improve the quality of life for the majority of the people, especially those in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mkaika want more clinics, better roads, more schools, a district hospital and more boreholes. Although there has been a remarkable improvement in the water sector in Mkaika because a number of boreholes were drilled during my first term as hon. Member of Parliament, a lot more still needs to be drilled as many villages do not have boreholes. The peri-urban parts of Mkaika Constituency continue to experience chronic poor water supply and sanitation services.

Sir, I am, therefore, pleased that the President talked about re-introducing the water, sanitation and sewerage grants to utility companies so as to enable them to maintain and upgrade the water and sewerage infrastructure in the peri-urban areas. There is, therefore, an urgent need for more resources to be allocated to the Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme for local authorities.

Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, pleasing to note that the President has put infrastructure development at the centre of all initiatives which seek to bring about sustainable economic development. This will require massive resource mobilisation. The President also talked about providing fiscal policies aimed at broadening the tax base so as to mobilise sufficient domestic resources for development. This is a good measure. I hope the fiscal policies will extend to the informal sector which, to date, has not been captured in the tax net.

Sir, to achieve this, the Government will have to build sufficient capacity at the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). 

Further, the President talked about a vibrant Social Protection Policy aimed at addressing the needs of the vulnerable groups through strengthening the existing social safety net and protection programmes.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that three years ago, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme was introduced in a few selected areas of this country as a pilot with the help of donors. Three wards out of eight in Mkaika have benefitted from this programme. I can confirm to you that the programme has been carefully monitored and evaluated. Its positive impact on the lives of the vulnerable has been big. 

Sir, I, therefore, urge the current Government to expedite the mobilisation of resources so that this programme continues and is extended to all parts of the country. 

Mr Speaker, on energy development, I agree with the President that the installed capacity needs to be increased further so that more people can access electricity, especially in the rural areas, and Mkaika Constituency in particular.

Sir, the proliferation of cotton ginneries in the Eastern Province is exerting a lot of pressure on the current electricity supply levels. For example, there are two cotton ginneries in Katete District. One ginnery is located in Mkaika and at the peak times of ginning, power cuts are prevalent. This adversely affects industrial productivity. 

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about other agricultural activities in my constituency. The Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) has, no doubt, been a good Government initiative that has led to an increment in maize production in the country. Mkaika is predominantly an agricultural area. It is true that the agricultural policies in Zambia have given prominence to the growing of maize at the expense of other equally viable crops. Mkaika is a high cotton producing area with very committed cotton farmers who, unfortunately, have not been able to realise their full potential and have not benefited sufficiently from their labour in most cases. In most cases, they have remained poor. I urge the new Government to include cotton production inputs in the FISP of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock beginning the 2011/2012 Farming Season. 

Mr Speaker, the people of Mkaika welcome the President’s pronouncements regarding livestock restocking and the making of the dip tanks, vaccination and treatment of all cattle compulsory. Related to this is the urgent need for the construction of dams in Mkaika.

Mr Speaker, let me now conclude my speech by talking about economic management. I would like to encourage the new Government to do everything possible to ensure that our economy remains vibrant. When I talk about a vibrant economy, I mean the following:

(i)    national reserves reaching US$2 billion in 2011 from almost nothing;

(ii)    copper production reaching a high of 470,000 tonnes in 2010 from 250,000 in 2000;

(iii)    a stable exchange rate and  predictable tax regime; 

(iv)    a single digit inflation rate; and

(v)    a gross domestic product (GDP) of 7 per cent and above. 

Mr Speaker, the macro-economic fundamentals, if sustained as given above, would be a sure way of creating wealth for our people

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela): Mr Speaker, my names are Poniso Njeulu and I am from Sinjembela Constituency. Allow me to begin by congratulating you, the Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House on being elected to your respective offices. Allow me to also congratulate the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata and his party, the PF, on winning the 20th September, 2011 Elections. Special thanks go to the President of our party, the national executive committee and indeed, all the organs that made it possible for me to be adopted to stand on the United Party for National Development (UPND) ticket.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, I come from Sinjembela Constituency which is a typical rural area. It is believed to be the poorest of all the constituencies in Zambia. Sinjembela is  in Shang’ombo District. Just like Katombola and Kasempa, it is the only constituency in its district. There are numerous challenges in this constituency such that I cannot manage to mention them all.  

Sir, before I go any further, let me give a background of Sinjembela Constituency. It has a population of about 90,000 with about 42,000 registered voters according to the 2005 registration of voters exercise. It is actually a vast constituency that borders Sikongo to the north, Sesheke Central to the south, Senanga Central and Nalolo to the east. It also shares the border with Angola to the west. It has five main tribes, namely the Kwamashi, Kwamulonga, Fwee, Shanjo and Totela. All these tribes are under the Lozi Senior Chief Lukama. Shang’ombo was given a district status in 1997 by the then MMD Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, the late Dr Chiluba, may his soul rest in peace. It was actually a good initiative because when Shang’ombo was awarded the district status, we saw a number of developmental programmes being brought to the area. We saw a road constructed from Matebele to Shang’ombo. Although it was just a one-lane road, it was still a good initiative. We request the new PF-led Government to ensure that this road is tarred. 

Mr Speaker, may I also take this opportunity to inform the PF Government that three quarters of the civil servants who are running Government departments in Shang’ombo stay in Senanga due to a lack of houses and office accommodation in the area. This is a situation that needs to be corrected by the current Government. We need over 200 houses to be built for the civil servants so that they can shift from Senanga to Shang’ombo. 

Mr Speaker, we need to turn Shang’ombo Basic School into a secondary school because within the boma, there is no high school. Pupils have to travel a number of kilometres to Senanga to access senior secondary school education. There are three schools in my constituency that have had their roofs blown off. These schools need to be worked on with a sense of urgency. These are Lyamaya, Nalwashi and Mwanambao. I think the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training, if at all he is here, should look into this issue immediately. The roofs should actually be replaced within ninety days which is the period within which the PF Government has promised to implement a number of developmental programmes. 

Laughter

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, Shang’ombo has no district hospital. Works on the one under construction have stalled due to non-availability of funds for the contractor. I hope that the hon. Minister of Health is listening and will address these issues and ensure that the hospital is completed. I commend the MMD Government for initiating such a big project.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, we welcome the pronouncement by His Excellency the President on the Kalongola/Kalabo Road that is to be constructed next year. If this will be done, Sinjembela Constituency will benefit. This, however, is not enough. Therefore, we request that two more roads, Nangweshi/Sinjembela/Mutomena and Shang’ombo/ Sinjembela/Kaungamashi, be constructed. For lack of a better term, I will name the former the Bottom Road because it passes through the border. We, therefore, also have a Bottom Road in Shang’ombo. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, as regards security in my constituency, Shang’ombo District faces a lot of cases of crime. We have experienced many killings by the Karavinas. Due to lack of employment, the youth have resorted to buying guns from Angola and terrorising cattle farmers and stealing their animals. When followed, the cattle rustlers open fire. This can only be addressed if more police posts are constructed, especially in Mutomena, Mambolomoka and Sinjembela. 

There is also the problem of lack of transport for police officers at Nangweshi. At the Boma, there is a Landcruiser, but it is not enough to service all the stations. We, therefore, need a vehicle to be stationed at Nangweshi. 

Mr Speaker, there is a secondary school that is being constructed in Nangweshi, but the Chinese contractor responsible has stopped working. The reason he has given is that he has not been given money by the Government. The Government we are talking about in this case is the PF Government and I know it is listening. Money should be sourced so that it is given to the contractor to complete the project.  

Mr Speaker, on agriculture, I would like to dwell more on livestock. As I am talking to you, about 102 heads of cattle have died from a disease called Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP). This is a disease that affects the lungs. No measures have been taken to address this situation as yet. The Veterinary Department has said that it cannot move in to control this disease because it has no money. I think that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock should quickly arrange for some money so that officers can control this disease before it spreads. 

Mr Speaker, the CBPP is a contagious disease that is very difficult to cure. If left uncontrolled, it will be disastrous as most of the animals will be wiped out. The areas affected, at the moment, are Mambolomoka Ward, especially in Kanga where a lot of animals are dying. The other places are Natukoma, Nalwamba and Keyana. We need the Government to move in quickly so that this disease does not eradicate most of the animals. 

Mr Speaker, we, the people of Sinjembela, welcome the restocking programme that was pronounced by His Excellency the President because we are the most affected. A lot of our animals have died as a result of trying to assist the Angolan refugees. When the refugees came, they brought along with them cattle already affected by the CBPP. 

Finally, I would like to welcome the decision by the President to create a Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Shang’ombo has been neglected, in terms of economic development and traditional affairs. We have our capable Senior Chief Lukama, who represents and acts on behalf of the Litunga in running the affairs of the district. The people are very happy with this arrangement. However, the people do not understand and complain about the fact that many local junior chiefs representing various tribes have not been recognised by the Central Government. 

Mr Speaker, in districts such as Kaoma, the situation is different. Senior Chief Amukena is at the top while the local tribes have their own junior chiefs such as Mweene Mutondo and Mweene Kahale, who are recognised by the Government. It is not possible to have a senior chief in an area where there are no junior chiefs. Therefore, the Government of the day should look into this issue, especially now that there is an hon. Minister in-charge of these issues. 

In conclusion, the people of Sinjembela are asking for development. They are asking the Government to consider the following; 

(i)    tar the Kalongola/ Shang’ombo Road; 

(iv)    construct the Nangweshi/Sinjembela Road;

(v)    construct the Shang’ombo/Sinjembela Road;

(vi)    connect Shang’ombo to the national grid because the power lines pass right through the district, and yet it is not benefiting from them. We simply need to put a transformer at Sioma and tap electricity from there. It does not require huge sums of money. We also want electricity from the national grid;

(vii)    complete all the projects started by the previous Government. There are a number of projects that were started by the previous Government. Schools are either at window or ring beam levels and we request that all these projects be completed; … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Njeulu: …

(viii)    complete the civic centre and provide a vehicle to the local authority. The council, at the moment, has no vehicle. It was using a vehicle belonging to the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and when it was retrieved, the council had nothing. I hope that the hon. Minister is listening. Shang’ombo needs a vehicle because all the vehicles are grounded.   

(vii)   open up the Libungu/Shang’ombo canal. This project was left incomplete and a water master was bought. I think the hon. Provincial Minister is aware of that and, maybe, this machine is being kept at his office. There was an agreement with the Angolan Government, then, that this canal be opened up from Shang’ombo to Libungu. Therefore, this project should commence in order to link Shang’ombo to the neighbouring country; and

(viii)    convince MTN, Airtel or Cell Z to put up network towers in the following areas; Natukwe, Mamutomela and Lipamelo areas so that the whole Shang’ombo District is covered. When I talk of Shang’ombo District, I mean Sinjembela Constituency. There is confusion as regards the two places because Shang’ombo District and Sinjembela Constituency are one and the same thing.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I wish to comment on the CDF. The CDF should be increased to a minimum of K5 billion.

With these few remarks, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Natural Resources (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me an opportunity to deliver my maiden speech and also contribute to the debate on the inspiring and illuminating President’s Speech presented to this eminent House.

Firstly, I am greatly indebted to my family and friends who believed in me before I believed in myself for the magnanimous support they rendered to me physically, spiritually and in many other ways.

Secondly, I will forever be indebted to the people of Wusakile who voted for me together with His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata en mass.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Sir, allow me to congratulate His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, on his resounding victory against all odds in God’s time and at such a time as this one.

Further, I would like to congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on your election. The value of numbers was made evident at the quest of your election. I would also like to further congratulate the hon. Deputy Speaker and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House on the subsequent elections that went unopposed, a clear indication of the confidence that this honourable House bestowed on them.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the PF Kitwe District leadership, under the chairmanship of Mr Mwewa, …

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: … Wusakile Constituency leadership, under the chairmanship of Mr Kangwa, and various wards such as Wusakile, Chamboli, Luangwa, Limaposa and Chibote. I would also like to thank the distinguished councillors, His Worship the Deputy Mayor of Kitwe, Mr Miti, Mr Malama, Councillor for Chibote, Mr Njovu, Councillor for Chamboli, and Mr Chilufya, Councillor for Luangwa, for their personal commitment to ensuring that the party emerged victorious.

Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duties if I did not recognise the contribution of my campaign manager in Kitwe, Mr Alderman Kazenene.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: I would also like to thank the leadership of central committee of our party for adopting me as a candidate for Wusakile.

Mr Speaker, may I also take this opportunity to thank the leadership of the National Union of Miners and Allied Workers (NUMAW) and the Mineworkers Union of Zambia (MUZ) and its general leadership and membership for the support rendered to me.

I would also like to thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for appointing me Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Mines and Natural Resources.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Sir, the responsibility that the people of Wusakile have placed on me is a great challenge and I want to assure them that I will ensure that their plight is addressed at all times.

Wusakile is a constituency that has been known to have had hon. Members of Parliament who have deserted it. For the first time, it has an hon. Member it can count on come rain, come shine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Sir, Wusakile lies less than 3 km from the central business district (CBD). It is home to mining houses and many other business houses, and yet it bleeds like a constituency that is coming from a military invasion.

Mr Speaker, prime among the many hurdles of Wusakile are water and sanitation. It is sad that, forty-seven years after independence, our people do not have clean, reliable and running water. To this effect, my Government has directed the Nkana Water and Sewerage Company to ensure that water and sanitation is addressed with immediate effect. In this area of health, mediocrity will not be tolerated.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: My Government will rejuvenate these utility companies by providing capital investment to enable them to upgrade and maintain the water and sewerage infrastructure in Wusakile and Kitwe District as a whole.

Mr Speaker, the cosmetic and political road infrastructure started by the desperate regime weeks before the election is a nightmare. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Sir, my Government is determined to ensure that a proper road network in Wusakile is put in place to foster development.

Mr Speaker, as evidenced by the President’s Speech, this Government will endeavour to complete all the projects and ensure that it provides the necessary development to our people. The development which our friends initiated will, definitely, be completed with certain modifications. In short, issues of corruption that were associated in the awarding of road contracts and other services will be done away with.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Sir, as regards health, it is sad to note that this is a matter that was compromised by the regime we graciously replaced. My Government is determined to ensure that its people have access to quality healthcare by ensuring that it builds a modern hospital for the people of Wusakile. As you may be aware, the only hospital people had access to in Wusakile was the one built by the former Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM). At the folding of the company, the hospital infrastructure was sold. As such, our people do not have a reliable Government hospital to look up to. Therefore, my Government will ensure that the constituents pride in a hospital of their own.

Mr Speaker, my Government is committed to ensuring that Wusakile gets modern infrastructure as regards education. This includes issues of science and, in order to be in tandem with the modern times, computer technology laboratories as well.

Mr Speaker, marketers and traders who happen to be some of the staunch supporters of this Government trade in deplorable markets. My Government will endeavour to construct modern markets in Wusakile to address the plight of our people. In pursuit of constructing modern market stands for our people, we will be looking for market facilities that have proper water and sanitation.

Mr Speaker, the people of Wusakile were a target of mockery with meaningless promises coupled with fictitious ceremonial opening of stage-managed development such as the popular toilet business.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, my Government will ensure that dignity is restored to the people of Wusakile by bringing tangible development which will improve the living standards of our people. As regards the issue of mineral taxes which hon. Members of this House have raised, I would like to draw the attention of this House to this matter seriously.

Mr Speaker, allow me to quote the Speech by His Excellency the President on page 27 because the people said the President did not tackle this matter. I would like to draw the attention of the House to page 27 of the speech which says: 

“It is equally worrying that Zambia has experienced more than five years of record high mineral prices and production boom without much to show for it in terms of contribution to infrastructure development or Government revenue.” 

This was as a result of the previous regime’s negative policies, corruption and mismanagement of the resources. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge our colleagues to be useful to Zambia because His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, adequately dealt with this matter decisively. The PF Government shall ensure the provision of sound fiscal policy aimed at broadening the tax base in order to mobilise sufficient domestic resources for development for all the ten provinces.

Mr Speaker, the ambition of my Government is to ensure that a broad-based tax arrangement, in consultation with all stakeholders, is in place. Our guiding principle, as a Government of the people, is a win-win situation. The President’s Speech widely illuminated issues and among them, the fight against corruption as evidenced by bringing back the abuse of office clause.

Mr Speaker, the facet of a Zambian-driven Constitution is a matter that my Government has brought out and these issues, as can be seen, are meant for this Government to relentlessly fight against poverty and bring back the dignity of Zambians. This is a great milestone to the people of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, my Government is also committed to ensuring that social groups such as the vulnerable, women, children, youths and people with disability have access to basic social services such as education, water and sanitation, including training skills. The levels of unemployment in our country, which we have inherited from our colleagues on your left, are very alarming. This Government, which we graciously replaced, poorly supervised the mining industry. At the moment, there are more foreigners who have jobs in this industry than Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, my Government is determined to fight and reverse this trend and ensure that Zambians are given priority in terms of jobs in various companies. This also applies to local contractors and suppliers because this business was reserved for foreigners. My Government will ensure that Zambian local contractors and suppliers get the required jobs and contracts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, my Government, as a listening one and as one which has been there for many years except that it just assumed office late, will ensure that it embraces foreign companies and investment. However, this will not be done at the expense of our local entrepreneurs.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of expatriates in the mining industry, as a Government, we have no apology to make because Zambians deserve the best. In fact, you will be interested in knowing that the law provides that only skills that are not readily available in the country should be outsourced. In short, it is only that the previous Government had gone to sleep that this law was not enforced.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the Speech by the President, on page 34, says: 

“The Government will endeavour to ensure that lopsided policies of the previous Government which tended to favour foreigners are addressed.”

Mr Speaker, my Government will also endeavour to encourage exploration as a basis for sustainable mining operation. It is not a secret that in our mining companies, the general working conditions and the pay structure have been the worst the country has ever seen and this is as a result of mismanagement. This has necessitated a lot of work stoppage. As a Government, we will ensure that this is reversed to ensure that people are paid for the services that they deliver.

Mr Speaker, let me quickly get to the creation of Muchinga Province. This is a matter which all level-headed Zambians who have Zambia at heart must embrace. I am glad that after the presentation of this matter by the President, we are now getting representations from other provinces to ensure that this is done. For now, we are dealing with Muchinga and Choma as provincial headquarters. Thereafter, we will move to other areas.

Mr Speaker, at all times, the Government will embrace constructive criticism based on improving the living standards of the people. In this regard, hon. Members will be expected to show allegiance to the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, despite the huge potential our country continues to have in terms of natural resources, it is sad that the people continue to live in abject poverty. The Government will ensure that we reverse this trend by providing economic measures that will address these issues equitably. The Government is also determined to do the following:

(i)    review the mining policy framework so as to bring stability in the sector; 

(ii)    review the legislative framework to restore confidence in the mining sector; 

(iii)    promote value addition in the mining sector by providing incentives;

(iv)     promote investment in exploration of other minerals other than copper;

(v)     promote ownership of large mines by indigenous Zambians; and 

(vi)    establish credit financing to support small-scale mining.

Finally, Sir, I would be failing in my duties if I did not thank the National Executive Committee of our party for the support they gave me.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to congratulate His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, on his election to the highest office in this land and on being the first Catholic President elected in this country. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Using this opportunity, may I also congratulate you on your election as Speaker of this august House and your Deputy Speaker and Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House.

Sir, in presenting my maiden speech to this august House, I wish to firstly thank the people of Mporokoso Constituency for electing me their Member of Parliament. To them, I am highly indebted and, therefore, promise to serve them diligently with dedication. I also pay special and particular thanks to the Daughter of Mary Immaculate (DMI) Congregation of Sisters and the staff of DMI St-Eugene University for their prayers and, not least, to all members of my family for their support, hard work and tolerance. To my beautiful wife and children, I say thank you very much and, please, continue to pray. May I also put on record my special thanks to my predecessor, Hon. Misapa, and his team for their support in all my campaign efforts. To them, I say thank you very much.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, I also would like to emphasise to this august House that I come from Mporokoso and that it is my hope that all hon. Members in the House know where it is. Mporokoso is one of the remotest districts in the Northern Province and in Zambia generally. Our constituency has experienced great suffering, sorrow and gross neglect by those that governed this country within the motto ...

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kalaba: Akulandeni ba professor.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Sir, I rise on a very serious point of order. The hon. Members on your left were raising questions for the Executive to respond to. Now that the Executive are responding, where are the hon. Members?

Hon. Opposition Members: We are here.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, three quarters of them are not here. I need your very serious ruling on the matter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Well, a cursory look at the hon. Members who are present shows that the number is sufficient for them to appreciate the responses that are being made by the Executive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: As much as the Chair desires it, I take note that it may not be possible to have a 100 per cent attendance, but a quick look confirms to me that we have a quorum.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, I was just saying that ours is an experience of great suffering, sorrow and gross neglect by those who have governed us as a country within the motto of “One Zambia, One Nation” from which we appear to have virtually gained little, if not anything at all. 

Sir, this may sound funny, but you need a campus to find Mporokoso. It takes twenty-two hours of hard driving both on tarmac and dirt roads to reach there. We are a borderline people. It takes twelve hours to travel from Lusaka to Kasama, covering 864 km and an additional twelve hours journey to traverse only a 175 km of a dirt road to reach Mporokoso.

Hon. Government Members: Ba Mutati! Shame!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, with regard to matters of security in my district and particularly my constituency, this leaves much to be desired as the police are no longer a service, but a force. This situation has been made worse now by the advent of a PF electoral win and formation of the PF Government. Most police officers are MMD sympathisers. Consequently, many PF followers have suffered; they have been beaten up and continue to be beaten up. Policemen in uniform insult members of the public with impunity. These are riff-raffs in Government uniforms.

Hon. Government Members: Yes! They have very bad manners.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Unfortunately, that phrase is unparliamentary, hon. Minister. Please, if you may withdraw it.

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, my apologies. I withdraw it.

Mr Kalaba: Hammer, professor, hammer! 

Professor Willombe: Sir, for our peace of mind, we want these officers removed from Mporokoso District to give room to good and professional police officers. One of my campaign co-ordinators in the just-ended tripartite elections was picked up by three policemen a few days ago and beaten almost to pulp and had to be hospitalised for three days …

Mr Hamududu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training in order to criticise officers in his own Government? I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I am cognisant to the fact that these changes have taken place very recently and while in the process of adjustment, I would like to advise the hon. Member on the Floor that he is, in fact, now part of the Executive.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: To clear any doubt, I will say the hon. Minister is out of order.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, my apologies. 

Mr Speaker, this created a situation that must now be stopped or defused. Our Government surely will not allow this to continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, may I now comment on some of the items contained in His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata’s speech delivered to this august House on the 18th October, 2011. 

Mr Speaker, the President’s comments on overall infrastructure development have brought delight, joy and hope to the people in Mporokoso, particularly at the mention of the Kaputa/Kasama and Kawambwa/Mporokoso roads.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, the reason is simple. Mporokoso has had no road infrastructure development for more than thirty years, a situation that has worsened in the last twenty years. There are no feeder roads, but foot paths only.

Mr Speaker, with regard to health situations, I take note, with delight, in that at least the PF Government will, this time around, allocate a little more resources to both health and education. With the proposed changes to both infrastructure and policy in these areas, we should be able to effectively make meaningful improvements, develop and realign the various systems in the our country.

Mr Speaker, it is not that there was nothing good done by our predecessors, but that much of it lacked political will, commitment and management, especially in the areas of education and health. Here, some budgetary lines, especially those of our co-operating partners closed or ceased to exist or were temporarilyy closed. These budget lines will now be opened under the PF Government.

Mr Speaker, our hospital in Mporokoso caters for both Mporokoso and Kaputa ...

Hon. Member: And Lunte.

Professor Willombe: … and Lunte 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: … and has only one doctor who was recently allocated. We need, at least, three doctors in gyn-obstetrics and paediatrics and about sixty nurses instead of the twenty-seven that are there. Four new health centres at Bweupe, Mutitima, Mabale and Kambobe must be built with an increased allocation of both financial and human resources.

Hon. Government Member: The PF will do it.

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, the water and sewerage company requires revitalising and recapitalisation since it’s current capacity is failing. Only an 8th of the population has piped clean water and that has to change.

Mr Speaker, with regard to receiving advice from any quarter, this is very much welcome. However, one has to be wary of receiving wholesome advice on how to pass an examination from someone who has just failed one. 

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, with regard to energy use in this country, in particular electricity, our predecessors have left us with low voltage and frequent blackouts particularly in rural areas such as my district Mporokoso. ZESCO’s presence n the district goes way back to the First Republic and yet, only a handful of our people can access this service.

Mr Speaker, in ending my presentation to this august House, I would like to say that I am in this august House because my people believe that, as a team, we can change their suffering to joy and healthy living.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, we are not supposed to come here to defeat Bills and anything that is intended to bring good life to them. Going this way means we will not last in this august House. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Professor!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

As the hon. Members from my right continue to participate in this debate, I would like to state that they should desist from the temptation to repeat lamentations from the left and focus more on how they intend to redress the various ailments that have continued to plague this nation. I know this is a shift, it is a paradigm shift in terms of roles, but as I continue giving more opportunity to Members of the Executive, I think they should be mindful that the hon. Members on my left as well as the nation at large, would like to hear more about how they will respond to these challenges that they have inherited.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______

The House adjourned at 18:14 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 3rd November, 2011.