Tuesday, 29^th July, 2025

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF KENYA AND OFFICIALS FROM THE WESTMINSTER FOUNDATION FOR DEMOCRACY KENYA OFFICE

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following Members of Parliament and staff from the Parliament of Kenya who are accompanied by officials from the Westminster Foundation for Democracy (WFD), Kenya Office:

 

Hon. Abdi Shurie, MP                          -           Chairperson, Public Debt and Privatisation Committee and Leader of the Delegation

 

Hon. Omboko Milemba, MP                -           Member, Public Debt and Privatisation Committee, and member of the Speaker’s Panel

 

Hon Dr Robert Pukose, MP                 -           Vice-Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee

Hon Sunkuyia George Risa, MP           -           Member, Finance and Planning Committee

 

Mr Chacha Machage                            -           Senior Fiscal Analyst, Parliamentary Budget Office, and Delegation Secretary

 

Mr Livingstone O. Bumbe                 -           Senior Deputy Director, National Treasury – Public Debt Management Office

 

Ms Josephine Cherotich                        -           Principal Resource Mobilisation Officer, National Treasury – Public Debt Management Office

 

Ms Maureen Oduori                             -           WFD Country Director

 

Mr Henry Benjamin Awino                   -           WFD Programme Co-ordinator

 

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to receive and warmly welcome our distinguished guests into our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM CHISAMBA BOARDING PROVINCIAL STEM SCHOOL

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Chisamba Boarding Provincial Stem School of Chisamba District.

 

 On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

COUNCILLORS AND UNITED PARTY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT OFFICIALS FROM MUMBWA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery of Councillors and United Party for National Development (UPND) officials from Mumbwa Parliamentary Constituency.

 

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM HOPE OF GLORY SCHOOL

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Hope of Glory School of Kabwe District.

 

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

_______

 

URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, though it is our last week of the Meeting, with a few days before we adjourn sine die, please, let us make use of this week to visit hon. Ministers’ offices so that we can have answers as we go back to the constituencies.

 

REV. KATUTA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHIENGE, ON MRS NALUMANGO, THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON SUSPENDED COUNCILLORS IN CHONGWE

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, on an Urgent Matter without Notice.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

 

Rev Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this important Urgent Matter without Notice on behalf of the people of Chienge. This Urgent Matter without Notice is directed at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, but I see that he is not in the House yet. So, I will direct it at the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Madam Speaker, on 27^th January, 2025, twenty-one Councillors in Chongwe were suspended and, according to the law, it should take only six months for them to be reinstated. Today is 29^th July, 2025, and they have not yet been reinstated. That has deprived the people of Chongwe and also the families who are dependent on them their right to be represented. So, I would like to find out why the Government has deliberately ignored the needs of the people of Chongwe, as you may be aware, the administrator cannot run the affairs of the council for more than six months. There are families that are dependent on them.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, this matter does not qualify as an Urgent Matter without Notice, because you mentioned that something happened in January 2025. So, this is an old matter. Matters are supposed to be raised within twenty-four hours after their occurrence. Find another platform to bring that matter back to the House.

 

MR AMUTIKE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MONGU CENTRAL, ON MRS NALUMANGO, THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON K75 MILLION PAID TO A COMPANY THAT DID NOT DELIVER ANYTHING

 

Mr Amutike. (Mongu Central): Madam Speaker, on an Urgent Matter without Notice.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

 

Mr Amutike: Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter without Notice I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, but in his absence, I will direct it at the Leader of Government Business in the House. We are aware that the people of Zambia hate brutality and corruption. Hence, they kicked out the former Ruling Party from the Government.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Amutike: Madam Speaker, a newspaper article yesterday reported that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government paid K75 million to a company that did not deliver anything. We are rising on Friday, and it is the expectation of the people of Mongu Central that, as I go back, I will tell them what the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has done to the people who looted the K75 million. I need to report back. Is the hon. Minister, or the Leader of Government Business in the House, in order to sit quietly without providing answers for the people of Mongu Central about where the K75 million, which the PF Government looted, is?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mongu Central, again, those are old issues that have been coming out. I recall that when the former Minister of Local Government and Rural Development addressed the House at one point, he mentioned that there were projects under which people supplied air. So, that is not a new matter. Find another platform.

 

MR CHISOPA, HON. MEMBER FOR MKUSHI SOUTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, MR KAPALA, ON THE INCREASED ELECTRICITY TARIFFS

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South):  Madam Speaker, on an Urgent Matter without Notice.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

 

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I wish we could have also included the sixty-one containers of medicine that this Untied Party for National Development (UPND) Government is still hiding, and the K290 million which has gone missing, on the medicine that is being hidden somewhere, when the people of Zambia are still suffering and do not have the medicine that they need.

 

Madam Speaker, the Urgent Matter without Notice I am raising is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy. While the UPND Government is slowly reducing the price of fuel, it is increasing electricity tariffs at night. Today, when we buy power for K100, we are given 26 units. In the past, electricity for K100 would give us 30 to 40 units.

 

Madam Speaker, we know that the UPND Government will be voted out of office next year. The Zambian people have already decided. However, this does not mean that the Government should start increasing prices, even when it knows that the economic situation for Zambians is very bad.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Energy in order to increase the price of electricity, without informing this House so that we also inform our people in the constituencies that the UPND Government will increase the price of electricity this month?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, do you have evidence of that increment?

 

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I have evidence on the phone. I was buying electricity units.

 

Rev. Katuta: The evidence is here on the phone.

 

Mr Syakalima: The evidence is in his head.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, I think that you have been in this Parliament for a long time. I am sure you know the requirements of laying a document on the Table. You do not have a document, and so, your matter does not qualify as an Urgent Matter without Notice. You have failed to produce evidence to show that, indeed, there has been an increase in electricity tariffs. So, it is not admissible.

 

We make progress.

 

_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

PRESIDENT HAKAINDE HICHILEMA’S STATE VISIT TO THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT

 

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, I have the honour and privilege to render this Ministerial Statement to the House on the State visit to the Arab Republic of Egypt, which was undertaken by Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, from 23^rd to 25^th February, 2025, at the invitation of His Excellency, Mr Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, President of the Arab Republic of Egypt.

 

Madam Speaker, the visit underscored Zambia’s commitment to deepening its bilateral and multilateral engagements in line with the aspirations of our Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), Vision 2030 and the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

OBJECTIVES OF THE VISIT

 

The key objectives of the state visit were to, inter alia:

 

1. strengthen bilateral relations, reinforce our historical and strategic ties with Egypt across political, economic, social and cultural spheres;

 

1. address shared developmental challenges, that is to collaborate on practical solutions in energy, agriculture, infrastructure, health, Information Communication Technology (ICT) and climate resilience;

 

1. promote trade and investment, that is to enhance market access and identify bankable projects to drive private sector-led growth; and

 

1. facilitate a business-to-business partnership, that is to support local Zambian businesses to forge joint ventures with Egyptian counterparts, advancing technology transfer and local value addition.

 

THE DELEGATION AND STRATEGIC FOCUS

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambian delegation comprised, obviously, His Excellency the President, as the Delegation Leader; myself, as Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation; Hon. Chipoka Mulenga, the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry; Hon. Charles Milupi, the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development; Hon. Elijah Muchima, the Minister of Health, Hon. Eng. Collins Nzovu, the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation; Hon. Peter Kapala, the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock; together with our Ambassador in Cairo, senior Government officials, representative statutory bodies and the Zambian business executives.

 

Madam Speaker, the delegation’s engagements were guided by the key pillars of the 8NDP, particularly economic transformation and job creation, human and social development and environmental sustainability.

 

KEY BILATERAL OUTCOMES

 

Bilateral Talks and Political Consultations

 

Madam Speaker, the Heads of State reaffirmed the shared political will to enhance co-operation in political, economic and social developmental spheres. They committed to:

 

1. deepening mutual support in multilateral fora, including the Africa Union (AU) and Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA); and

 

1. advocating jointly on African priorities, such as climate change financing, poverty reduction and the restructuring of the global debt architecture.

 

Madam Speaker, the two leaders further called for institutionalising dialogue through the establishment of structured political consultations to be held at ministerial and senior officials’ level on an annual basis.

 

Signing of Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs).

 

Madam Speaker, to anchor these engagements on concrete frameworks, the following five MoUs were signed on the:

 

1. establishment of political consultations;

 

1. co-operation in agriculture;

 

1. co-operation in plant, quarantine and phytosanitary matters;

 

1. co-operation in livestock development; and

 

1. technical co-operation on the redevelopment of urban towns and sub-centres in Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, additionally, during the visit, the Zambia-Egypt Business Forum, four infrastructure-focused MoUs were signed, aimed at the construction of critical transport corridors and bridges to unlock trade routes under the Lobito Corridor and beyond.

 

Specific Economic and Infrastructure Commitments

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the visit attracted private investment pledges of close to US$500 million.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I repeat: the visit attracted private sector investment pledges of close to US$500 million targeting the following:

 

1. joint venture with Toyota, Tsusho and Elsewedy Electric to establish two 100 MW solar plants in Kafue and Mongu by 2026;

 

1. scaling-up of the existing ZESCO-Elsewedy partnership for local manufacturing of transformers and prepaid meters, targeting at least 40 per cent local sub-contracting to build the capacity of Zambian small and medium enterprises (SME); and

 

1. participation of Arab contractors in strategic bridge and road infrastructure development with explicit provisions for technology transfer and local skills development.

 

Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries Co-operation

 

Madam Speaker, the delegation held technical discussions with Egypt’s Agricultural Research Centre and Veterinary Serum and Vaccine Research Institute, focusing on:

 

1. vaccine production for diseases such as foot and mouth disease (FMD), Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP), newcastle and anthrax, with joint research programmes to be rolled out by first quarter (Q1) 2026;

 

1. support to Zambia’s smart agriculture ambitions through training in biotechnology, irrigation technologies, and climate-resilient practices; and

 

1. capacity-building arrangements and scholarships under the Egyptian International Centre for Agriculture, targeting at least fifty Zambian professionals over the next three years.

 

Water Resource Management and Environmental Sustainability

 

Madam Speaker, recognising that water is critical to our agricultural and industrial aspirations, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation held bilateral discussions with the Egyptian Ministry of Water Resources and Irrigation. Areas agreed for co-operation include water harvesting, recycling and desalination, management of non-revenue water and maintenance of irrigation infrastructure. A memorandum of understanding (MoU) on water co-operation is expected to be finalised by the end of 2025, to support Zambia’s Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) six commitments.

 

Tourism, Development and Heritage Management

 

Madam Speaker, the guided tour of the Giza Pyramids was not merely ceremonial. It facilitated dialogue on how Egypt has leveraged heritage conservation to build a tourism sector that contributes 11 per cent to it gross domestic product (GDP).

 

Madam Speaker, Zambia seeks to draw lessons for improving the management and marketing of our own rich cultural and natural heritage sites. To this end, the Zambia Tourism Agency (ZTA) will commence technical exchanges with the Egyptian Tourism Authority in the fourth quarter of 2025, aimed at jointly designing tourism circuits and conservation financing models.

 

 Implementation Frameworks and Risk Mitigation

 

Madam Speaker, in order to actualise those commitments, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation has prepared a comprehensive action matrix detailing specific deliverables, responsible institutions and timelines for all MoUs and bilateral initiatives and a requirement that all major projects incorporate local content, small and medium enterprises’ (SME) participation and capacity-building plans aligned to Zambia’s local content strategy. Furthermore, to mitigate risks often associated with international engagements such as project delays, imbalanced partnerships or weak local benefits, an inter-ministerial steering committee has been constituted. The committee will review progress on a quarterly basis, provide updates to Cabinet and this august House and ensure due diligence on all investments.

 

Alignment with Zambia’s Developmental Agenda

 

Madam Speaker, the engagements undertaken during the state visit directly advance Zambia’s aspirations under the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), aforementioned by diversifying the economy into energy, agriculture, tourism and manufacturing, strengthening our human capital through technology transfer and targeted training, improving our transport and trade facilitation infrastructure, thereby positioning Zambia as a regional logistics hub under the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) and African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA) frameworks.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I want to report to the House that the state visit to the Arab Republic of Egypt was not merely a diplomatic exchange, but a strategic exercise in economic diplomacy. It is expected to yield tangible benefits for our people, including new jobs, increased foreign direct investment (FDI), enhanced food security, modern infrastructure and a more resilient economy.

 

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation will continue to engage line ministries, the private sector and our partners in Egypt to ensure full and timely implementation of all agreed areas. I shall, in due course, provide a detailed annual progress report to this august House on the status of those initiatives.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

 

 Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a supplementary question on the Ministerial Statement just delivered by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for a detailed Ministerial Statement on how Zambia is trying to market itself. I also want to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for making sure that we bring foreign direct investment (FDI) into the country.

 

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister was having discussions in Egypt, did he at any stage engage the Egyptian Government on how peace can be restored in the Middle East, particularly in Israel and Gaza, looking at how troubled that area is as we speak?

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for the question he has asked.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to confirm that with each and every engagement that we have with our foreign partners, one of the key areas of discussion will always be matters relating to peace, security and stability. As the hon. Member may be aware, our policy underscores that instability anywhere is instability everywhere. So, the discussions were held, of course, on the framework of international law and the rules-based order of the world.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the detailed statement and I commend the Government for that engagement.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Kantanshi have observed that the President made a very important working visit from 3^rd February to 7^th February, 2025, and then, he proceeded to Japan from 23^rd to 24^th February, 2025. I want to find out why we have not heard anything that was achieved from the working visit, especially since the delegation that went to Japan is almost similar to the delegation that went to Egypt. Further to that, is the hon. Minister able to share some of the immediate benefits that have come out of those pledged investments, if any? I know that he mentioned that, in due course, he will be able to share with the nation if at all there is any progress on those engagements we have had.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, just a reminder that it is one question per hon. Member.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, in fact, I will be coming to this honourable House for every visit that the Head of State undertakes to explain in detail the benefits and the purposes of those visits. So, the trip relating to Japan will follow shortly. However, I can certainly say that the benefits have already started trickling in from many of the engagements that His Excellency the President has made, not only in this particular year, but since 2021. For example, from the Egypt visit, we now have a clear partnership between the Egyptian private sector and our private sector, facilitated by the two Governments, in the pharmaceutical sector. So, we will soon be able to see more affordable, but effective drugs coming into the country and also the possibility of – In fact, let me say that there will be value addition within Zambia in respect of drug manufacturing, which is directly for the benefit of the people of Zambia. This is one of those that has come from the visit to Egypt. There are many others which we shall continue to detail as we go along, but I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi, as I earlier mentioned.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement involving the Government’s engagement visit, which was quite fruitful.

 

Madam Speaker, I just want the hon. Minister to clarify something, especially that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi South was not listening to the Ministerial Statement. The hon. Minister stated that US$500 million –

 

Mr Chisopa rose.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi East, please, ask your question without bringing in another hon. Member into it.

 

Mr Katakwe: Well guided, Madam Speaker, thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to clarify what the US$500 million investment will target in Kafue, and what it means to ZESCO Limited, especially that there was an allegation recently that the Ministry of Energy will increase electricity tariffs.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for that question, which allows me a second bite at the cherry.

 

Madam Speaker, in the Ministerial Statement, I stated quite clearly that the US$500 million is targeted at the electricity sector, in particular, the joint venture between Toyota Tsusho Corporation and Elsewedy Electric to establish two 100 MW solar plants in Kafue and Mongu by 2026. The implication of this is quite clear, and it speaks for itself. Firstly, there is already an existing joint venture between ZESCO Limited of Zambia and Elsewedy Electric of Egypt. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) is aimed at strengthening that relationship to address the concern of the energy insufficiency we are currently facing in the country. This is just a starting point. Maybe, to emphasise the point, once we have the two 100 MW renewable energy power plants, there will be further investment. I am aware that up to US$3 billion is targeted to be invested in Zambia through the platform that has been created. So, what does this mean? The long and short of my response to the hon. Member is that the investment will address the energy concerns of the country. For the everyday Zambian, you and I, it means that we can look to a time when we will have a reduction in the hours of less energy in our homes. By and large, this is aimed at supporting the Zambian industrial sector and the people of Zambia as a whole so that we can progress and move together with energy sufficiency.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the detailed Ministerial Statement about the President’s trip.

 

Madam Speaker, last time, I asked the hon. Minister a question on the neo-colonial effect on developing countries. His answer was that that issue was dealt with at university. I know that he is a very good friend of mine, but he did not answer my question. Today, I want to raise another issue, and I hope he will answer my question.

 

Madam Speaker, I understand that a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) is a non-binding agreement between parties obviously with intentions to achieve shared goals. The hon. Minister has mentioned a number of MoUs, and I appreciate that he has come up with this Ministerial Statement. What practical steps are being taken to engage the other parties on the issues that occurred after the trip was made?

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Feira for that question, which is not based on neo-colonial practices but rather on implementation of various MoUs.

 

Madam Speaker, indeed, as the hon. Member has stated, MoUs are non-binding in nature, but that does not mean that they are not effective for the purpose of establishing a foundation for co-operation. The two parties to the MoU state their intentions through it. Therefore, it is of significant value in ensuring that the groundwork is laid for co-operation between the parties. As I mentioned, several MoUs were signed. His question is: Where does this lead us in terms of implementation? As with any building, we start with the foundation. The foundation is what is used to construct a building until it reaches a habitable state. This is exactly what is being done. I gave an example of the pharmaceutical sector. The private sectors of the two countries are speaking and have put in place actual mechanisms for the manufacture of affordable but effective drugs, and for value addition in the country. What do I mean by value addition? We are talking about the construction and operationalisation of manufacturing plants in this country with our counterparts from Egypt as partners. Secondly, we are looking at a framework of the private sector leading joint ventures  rather than the Government. The hon. Member may have heard me state in my Ministerial Statement that during the visit to Egypt, we were accompanied by the Zambian private sector, meaning that we have established a handshake between the Zambian business sector and the Egyptian business sector. Already, that is a practical solution to what we are looking at. A typical example of what we are speaking about is the Elsewedy Electric and ZESCO Limited partnership, which has been buoyed by the intended or actual injection of capital for the construction of solar power plants in the country. So, you can see that there are tangible outcomes from this visit, and many more will follow.

 

Madam Speaker, I also mentioned that in the livestock sector, there is a partnership with Egypt to address some of the most crucial animal diseases we face in this country. I mentioned, for example, that contagious bovine pleuropneumonia (CBBP) makes it difficult for us to export our livestock products, particularly beef products, as they do not meet a certain phytosanitary or health standard. However, with the partnership I have mentioned and vaccines being provided to this country, it means we are opening a door for the export of our products to Egypt and beyond. I think that this should be very exciting for all Zambians to hear. I can see that our students in the Public Gallery appreciate what we are talking about. I am sure that hon. Members of Parliament equally appreciate what I am talking about.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I think that what the delegation went to do is a good thing. The delegation went to attract investment to our country, so it means our country will be better if the investments the hon. Minister talked about come true. Now, one thing that investors look at when assessing an environment in which to invest their money is the political and legal environment of a country. What is happening at the moment in our country can scare them. People, especially politicians, are being arrested and charged on very flimsy charges.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

 Mr Mukosa: Someone was arrested for just saying “Defend yourself with equal measure.” Someone was arrested for seditious practices for saying something like that, and an unnecessary by-election was created after an hon. Member of Parliament was jailed.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mukosa: That is counter-intuitive –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chinsali!

 

Mr Mukosa: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Ministerial Statement was very clear; it was about a visit to Kenya. Now, I do not know why new issues of arresting people have emerged. I did not hear anything like that mentioned by the hon. Minister. Please, you are supposed to seek clarifications on the Ministerial Statement that was presented. Can you do that, unless you do not have a question? Can you be focused.

 

Mr Mukosa: Let me be focused, Madam Speaker. The investment that the delegation went to seek is being countered negatively by what is happening back home. This means that what it went to do may not yield meaningful results. If the investment that the delegation went to attract …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the question?

 

Mr Mukosa: … is supposed to be US$100 million, maybe only US$8 million will come. My question is: Does the hon. Minister have plans to talk to his neighbour there, my big brother Hon. Jacob Mwiimbu, to reduce unnecessary arrests so that the Government can achieve meaningful results?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I noted that in the build-up to the question, the hon. Member included some speculation around how, when one wants to bring K100 million, the amount will reduce on account of –

 

Madam Speaker, I will not respond to that because it is purely speculative. Our international partners acknowledge that Zambia is a country of laws.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Rev. Katuta: Hmm! Laughable.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: In fact, the arrest of persons –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, please, do not debate while seated. Can you refrain from that.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, the arrest of persons who are alleged to have come into conflict with the law through corruption and other activities, encourages international partners knowing that this country is no longer one of corruption, but that it is one in which their investment will be safe and that culprits who think they can take away foreign direct investment (FDI) and money intended for the masses are brought to book. In fact, they are happy, and say that this is a country they want to partner with, because it is a country of laws where alleged criminals find themselves convicted by competent courts of jurisdiction. It is a safe haven for their money and investment with good partners who fear the law.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before I give the Floor to the next hon. Member, there is an indication for a point of order.

 

Hon. Member for Lunte, what is your point of order?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I sincerely appreciate this opportunity you have given me to raise this important point of order, because this is a House of precedence and records. It is critically important for submissions, particularly from hon. Ministers, to carry policy significance as well as decency. If I were to supplement, I would add Standing Order No. 71. Not long ago, the American Ambassador told the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, in the presence of that hon. Minister, who is on the Floor of the House, that there is corruption in the health sector.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let us not debate ourselves.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on the hon. Minister who is on the Floor. He is the one who was specifically told in person by the American Ambassador that there is corruption in the UPND Government.

 

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is he in order to counter a good question that was asked by my honourable Friend in that fashion? Is he in order to claim that the international community would be happy that this is a country of laws when an American Ambassador told him to his face, and there is no arrest of big fish, and the law enforcement agencies have only arrested small fish? Is he in order to mislead the nation in that fashion?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, that is the reason we get many different answers. Remember that the question that was raised was political. I cautioned the hon. Member who asked the question to be focused. However, he went astray. Similarly, the hon. Minister wanted to answer whatever was raised by the hon. Member for Chinsali. I do not think the hon. Minister made a mistake when he said that this country has laws. Laws guide this country. So, I would not say that the hon. Minister was out of order, because it is a fact. This country has laws.

 

My guidance to the House is that we should be focused on the Ministerial Statement. The minute we become political, we are going to get political answers, and that does not benefit our people. We want them to benefit from, and understand, the Ministerial Statement that has been presented by the hon. Minister. Why did the delegation travel to Egypt? How is Zambia benefiting? So, for the sake of our people, let us focus on the Ministerial Statement that was presented by the hon. Minister.

 

Let us make progress.

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity you have given to me, on behalf of the people of Kanyama, to ask a question.

 

Madam Speaker, I would also like to thank the Government for updating the nation each time it embarks on foreign tours.

 

Madam Speaker, I just want clarity on one issue. I think, the hon. Minister talked about local value addition. Looking at that and the issues that we discussed on the need for partnerships and encouraging outsiders to invest in the country, as we are trying to add value to the activities that the country embarks on, I want to know if the Government is considering coming up with our own industry that can be a channel through which local value addition can be enhanced.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I can best answer that question by saying that seeking FDI and strategic partnerships is not mutually exclusive to the local industry; in doing what it wants within various sectors. Local participation is a guarantee in the sense that FDI is not meant to exclude our people. A deliberate policy has been taken by the Government with respect to local content across the sectors. Through deliberate policy, we want to encourage foreign direct investors to take into account local content and, to the extent that is possible, of course, having regard to expertise, technology and all other matters, embark on joint ventures with our people for them to make partnerships that benefit the people of Zambia directly. So, that is a deliberate policy that is in place.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, listening to the hon. Minister talk about US$500 million plus that will be attracted into this country, I think it is important to look at the cost-benefit analysis of the trip that the President and his hon. Ministers undertook in terms of the amount that was spent when the trip was undertaken. We are aware that previously, a trip by a huge delegation was undertaken by the former regime to the United States of America (USA), and used huge amounts of money, but when they came back, the entire trip was equal to zero. There were no benefits. I would like the hon. Minister to help the nation and the House understand how much money was spent. We do not want to go back to the Patriotic Front (PF) kind of doing business where more than US$500 million, for example, is used for a trip just to dance in the USA, and people come back with nothing. No investment at all.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bweengwa for that important question.

 

Madam Speaker, whilst I am not able to come up with the exact figure of the amount spent, I can certainly say that the policy position regarding any foreign trips is that the delegations are kept to a minimum, and the duration of stay is kept to the barest minimum. I will give you a typical example that the authority that is given ordinarily would be for the delegation to start making its way back home on the first available flights. So, if business ends on Saturday at 1100 hours, by 2200 hours at the latest, one must be on the way back to minimise the cost. Of course, the number of persons that each delegation, or line ministry for example, is allowed to carry is kept to a minimum, probably the Permanent Secretary (PS) only and one other officer. So, the delegation to Egypt was equally lean. Certainly, we cannot measure the outcome from that particular trip against the cost of undertaking it.

 

Madam Speaker, aside from the diplomatic angle, we strengthened our relationship with Egypt. We cannot put a monetary value on that. In addition, as I earlier stated in the Ministerial Statement, the intended outcomes will result in jobs for Zambians, the creation of industry and tangible benefits to the people of Zambia, which far exceed the cost of travelling.

 

Madam Speaker, the delegation leader, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, is on record stating that, “It is work, work and more work for jobs, economic sustainability and for the betterment of the people of Zambia.”

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, let me equally applaud the hon. Minister responsible for foreign affairs for this initiative of appraising the House on some of the initiatives that are taking place, particularly the State visit by His Excellency the President, to the Arab Republic of Egypt.

 

Madam Speaker, many of us in here have been to Egypt. The four of us in the Committee on Health Community Development and Social Services are testimony to this bilateral co-operation that exists between Zambia and Egypt. We visited several pharmaceutical plants in Egypt, such as the United Pharmaceutical Agency. This agency supplies medicines to the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), which is responsible for stabilising the situation of medicines in our facilities. Hon. Mabeta was one of those who visited Egypt.

 

Mr Mabeta: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, we also included Hon. Nakaponda and Hon. Chibombwe on the trip. So, basically, it was a bipartisan trip to see first-hand what the hon. Minister is talking about.

 

Madam Speaker, I am sure that during his visit, the hon. Minister must have seen the development of the New Cairo City. It is a marvel to see how our colleagues are developing a very beautiful city in the middle of nowhere. I would like to know if there were any discussions as a result of that visit, whether we intend to bring lessons learnt from there to develop a new Lusaka, thereby running away from the congestion, flood and cholera-prone city of Lusaka. Are there such intentions as a result of that, or indeed, if he had any discussions around that issue?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon Members!

 

The consultations are too loud. Please, lower your voices.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lukulu East for that very elaborate question. To answer it in brief terms, indeed, the delegation did take a tour or visit to the New Cairo City. We were able to learn best practices from that tour and to understand the frameworks and models that are used in order for that new city to be developed. Without specifically talking about the development of the new Lusaka, however, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development was able to have conversations around how infrastructural development in Zambia can be enhanced based on the experience of our counterparts in Egypt, including from the perspective of housing, which is inadequate in this country. So, yes, there were several positives that came from that visit.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and I would like to also thank the hon. Minister for that detailed report.

 

Madam Speaker, we have seen high-level visits by the President and his entourage to several countries in the world, like Japan, China, Brazil and many other countries. The hon. Minister mentioned that the delegation structured more than five Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs), ranging from smart agriculture, the transport sector, climate change and so on and so forth. Among these MoUs, is there any that we, as a country, already had with another country, but also signed with Egypt, with a similar framework agreement? Is there any MoU that is clashing with another MoU, which we signed with another country in the world?

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kaumbwe for that question. Indeed, there will be many Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs) which are of a similar subject matter with different countries. As I said earlier, the MoUs are not mutually exclusive. They are complementary to each other. It does not mean that because we are co-operating in one area, for example, in the area of renewable energy and solar, then we cannot sign another MoU. We have several MoUs not with countries alone, but also on a private sector basis with different partners.  There is enough capacity to bring as many strategic partners on board as possible so that we can get outcomes from some of them, maybe not all of them, but certainly outcomes that are in favour of the people of Zambia. I hope that is satisfactory to the hon. Member.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Mbabala Constituency an opportunity to ask a question. I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for this wonderful Ministerial Statement on the successful trip to Egypt and for demonstrating international co-operation between Zambia and Egypt.

 

Madam Speaker, a few years ago, a group of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government ministers went to Saudi Arabia, and when they came back, they announced that they would bring fuel at a very cheap price of K5 per litre. We never saw that come to fruition. To date, that announcement from the PF regime has remained a lie. I would like to know from the hon. Minister   key performance indicators (KPIs) the ministry will have for the annual reports between our group of ministers and Egyptians for this international co-operation, which we have now.

 

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, thank you very much and I also thank the hon. Member for Mbabala for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member paints a very bleak and sad picture of how to not undertake economic diplomacy. That is why he asks about the key performance indicators (KPIs) that we should be looking for, as a Government. Amongst the matters that I referred to was a strategic way of operating following the undertaking of these foreign visits. What do I mean by this? Each of the strategic visits comes with an action matrix that has been developed jointly with our partners in foreign countries. So, we are, therefore, accountable on the basis of those action matrices. We have to be able to show to the people of Zambia and, of course, the appointing authority; the Head of State, who is particular on these matters, that each of the deliverables that we agreed to undertake in our visits are being undertaken, actioned or implemented, failure to which, we are held accountable. The KPIs are that we are expected to deliver. It is not a talking show or an opportunity to go and enjoy oneself when one goes out on these trips. It is work for the benefit of the people of Zambia with tangible outcomes, as I have already laboured to explain.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

395. Mr Kandafula (Serenje) asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. whether the Government is aware that farmers relying on irrigation systems in Serenje and other parts of the country are severely affected by the current three-hour daily power supply load management, and that the situation is leading to reduced crop yield and threatening national food security; and

 

1. if so, whether the Government will urgently consider exempting these farmers from load management to ensure continuous power supply to sustain agricultural activities.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government is not aware of any farmer in Serenje and other parts of the country who is currently receiving three hours of power supply. Under the current load management schedule, farmers are being allocated ten hours of power supply per day. This arrangement is intended to support critical activities such as irrigation. In any case, if there are cases of power supply being limited to three hours or bellow ten hours per day, it should be considered isolated incidences or system faults. Therefore, we encourage affected farmers, if any, to report such occurrences directly to ZESCO Limited for prompt investigations and resolutions.

 

In view of the existing Government policies prioritising farmers with extended power supply hours, currently farmers are allocated ten hours of power supply. This intervention is meant to ensure that agricultural activities are sustained to guarantee food security in the country. Further, the Government will continue to engage farmers through the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) to ensure that there is no disruption in agricultural activities

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kandafula Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

 

Madam Speaker, just allow me to borrow some narratives and contrasts that are usually applied by Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The hon. Minister has talked of about nine to ten hours of power supply allocated to farmers per day. The contrast I am trying to make is that Farm X and Farm Y are neighbours. Farm X has got ten centre pivots and Farm Y has equally got ten centre pivots. Now, due to the low voltages – The system constraints are actually affecting the whole Zambia, so to speak, and not just happening in Serenje, Mazabuka or wherever. It is the entire country …

 

Mr Mubika: Including Shangombo.

 

Mr Kandafula: Even in Shangombo. So, instead of the farmers irrigating the entire ten centre pivots for Farm X and the other one, they would rather probably irrigate five each so that they have proper voltages to save their equipment., The farmers would want twenty-four-hour power supply service for them to irrigate their crops sufficiently so as to have a good harvest. So, the ten hours or nine-hours power supply is theoretical, but practically, it is just three hours. So, when we combine the entire Zambia, we can just say that instead of producing probably, there was even some statement which was made yesterday, that Central Province is going to produce a lot of wheat, but even if it means 98,000 metric tonnes ...

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member! What is the question?

 

Mr Kandafula: Okay, let me just ask the question. Thank you.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that he is not aware of the three hours of power supply in Serenje. So, if he is not aware, and ZESCO is also not aware, what could be the gap, because this is happening right now regardless of the farmers reporting?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, I have said that we are not aware of any farmer in Serenje who is receiving three hours of power supply. I am saying that my ministry and the nation of Zambia have agreed and planned power supply for agricultural activities will be ten hours. So, if there is a challenge in terms of the voltage, such issues are supposed to be reported to ZESCO Limited so that they can be addressed. However, according to the schedule we have put in place, I want to assure the hon. Member that this Government is committed to making sure that agricultural activities are supported hence, the provision of the ten-hours supply of power to increase our agricultural production. So, that is what the Government is doing. As regards the voltage, we need to quickly inform ZESCO Limited to come in and rectify that challenge.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question.

 

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the Republican President recently commissioned the harvest of winter maize in Central Province. This means that Central Province is a major contributor of maize to the national food basket.

 

Madam Speaker, again, His Excellency, the Republican President recently commissioned the solar plant in Chisamba District.

 

Madam Speaker, since there is a complaint by the hon. Member for Serenje of low voltage in the power being supplied to the farmers who are engaging in irrigation farming, what is the position of the Government regarding the 100 kW solar plant that was recently commissioned in Chisamba. Why can the hon. Minister not, at least, play some cards to ensure that the farmers are given enough power both from the ZESCO grid and from the solar grid. I do not know how the Government can juggle those things so that our farmers can continue producing both rain-fed and irrigation produce.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, in fact, it is not 100 kW. We commissioned a 100 MW solar plant in Chisamba. I also want to state that in my response to part (b) of the question, I said that we are engaging the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU). We are consulting those people to see how we can provide adequate services to the farmers who are irrigating crops. That is the Government policy which we have introduced to make sure that this country becomes food-secure.

 

Madam Speaker, with the commissioning of the Chisamba solar plant, we have increased power supply to farmers in Central Province from ten hours to twelve hours. On issues to do with the voltage, I encouraged the hon. Member to ask ZESCO Limited to check the voltage. The voltage can be addressed by ZESCO Limited, but we have increased the hours we are providing power to our farmers in Central Province to twelve hours. The ZNFU can attest to this, and some farmers in Serenje can also attest to the facts I am saying.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Kandafula: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for yet another good answer.

 

Madam Speaker, the farmers’ crops will mature in September. The hon. Minister said that the Government is engaging the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU). When will the Government supply power for twenty-four hours so that farmers can cover up for what they have lost already?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member has moved from three hours of power supply to twenty-four hours. We are looking at how we can support our farmers who are irrigating. Hence, I stated that electricity supply is not for three hours; we have pushed it from ten hours to twelve hours to enable farmers to irrigate. We are even in contact with farmers, and they are very happy with the measures we have put in place to support them. So, we are heading to supplying power for twenty-four hours by the interventions that we are putting in place. We are putting up a number of solar plants around Central Province. The hon. Member is very sure that very soon, we are going to commission another 25 MW so that our farmers in Central Province can receive sufficient power for irrigation.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is trying to give us correct answers, but I am worried about the issue of low voltage. I think that the hon. Minister did not say exactly what the farmers would like to hear. The issue of low voltage is throughout the country. Chienge is badly affected. Even right here in Lusaka where I live, most of the time there is low voltage. So, what assurance can the hon. Minister give about this issue? He is busy saying that ZESCO Limited can address the issue, but he has more authority than ZESCO Limited. I think that is what the hon. Member for Serenje was trying to say. As a nation, we want to know what the solution for low voltage is.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I am yet to know how many farmers are irrigating in Chienge so that together we can quickly find the solutions to the problems that they are facing. The reason I am saying that ZESCO Limited can address that matter is that we have experts there, as it is a utility company that we have given the mandate to run power supply. If our farmers in Serenje are facing the challenge of low voltage, they need to report the matter so that ZESCO Limited can increase the voltage.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister and the President for taking the bold decision to diversify our power sources. What could be the real cause of low voltage? Is it generation, transmission or distribution?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, that question can only be addressed by our experts after they assess the problem to identify what is causing the low voltage. For now, I am not in a position to know exactly what is causing low voltage.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Energy wants to know if I am a farmer. Yes, I am a farmer.

 

Madam Speaker, the power issue has affected many industries. Farmers not only in Serenje but in other parts of the country have not planted to capacity. Farmers who use irrigation systems and have ventured into winter maize farming have not planted to capacity because of lack of constant power supply. The hon. Minister has assured us that the Government is moving to supplying power for twenty-four hours. This is very exciting to farmers. Now, the question is: How soon is the Government going to implement the twenty-four-hour power supply system, so that the farmers who have planted at half capacity can begin to plant to capacity as they used to do before load-shedding hit us so badly?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question.

 

Madam Speaker, I stated that we are putting in place a number of interventions which will lead us to a twenty-four-hour power supply system. The hon. Member may be aware that there are a number of solar projects that will help this country to address the power challenges that we are facing. Hence, I stated that we are heading to that time because of the interventions we are putting in place. So, it is about how fast we are going to implement all the interventions we are putting in place.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, while sitting here, I have been wondering. The hon. Minister has been asked why there is low voltage in the mentioned farming areas, and these are productive areas. The hon. Minister keeps on saying that that issue is for ZESCO Limited to address. He is here to address issues raised by hon. Members of Parliament, who are the representatives of the people. I am getting the impression that the hon. Minister does not communicate with ZESCO Limited. After learning about this issue, is it not possible for him to go to ZESCO Limited and resolve it so that farmers can have adequate power?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

 

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited is mandated to run our power supply. Indeed, when there are such challenges, the company has to be alerted. I have heard that in Serenje, farmers have to reduce the number of equipment to use at a particular time because of low voltage. I have stated that they need to report such challenges to ZESCO Limited so that it can attend to the challenge. The utility is mandated to provide that kind of service; hence it needs to be informed so that it can address the challenge that farmers are facing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we are reporting what is coming from the people to the hon. Minister so that he can tell Zesco Limited about the challenges. Our role is to represent our people, than to visit Zesco Limited. Apart from low power voltage and prolonged hours of load-shedding, the other problem that farmers in Serenje, and citizens in general, are complaining about is the cost of power units. The citizens say that when they buy power in the first week of the month, they get more units than when they buy at any other times like in the middle or towards the end of the month. Can the hon. Minister explain the mechanism that Zesco Limited uses for tariff costs for the power that is supplies to consumers?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the question on the Floor was about the number of hours Zesco Limited supplies power to the farmers. If there are issues concerning charges or tariffs, then, that is a different question. At the moment, I do not have the right to confirm whether what the hon. Member is saying is what is happening on the ground. I was responding to the question on the hours that are affecting our farmers in terms of increasing production.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

REPORT OF THE ZAMBIAN DELEGATION TO THE 57^th SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PARLIAMENTARY FORUM (SADC-PF) PLENARY ASSEMBLY

 

Mr Lumayi (Chavuma): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 57^th Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) Plenary Assembly, held in Victoria Falls City, Zimbabwe, from 31^st May, 2025, to 7^th June, 2025, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 25^th July, 2025.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Ms Nyemba (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Lumayi: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Order 154 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I stand to give a report on the activities at the 57^th SADC-PF Plenary Assembly, highlighting key recommendations made by the assembly.

 

Madam Speaker, the 57^th SADC-PF Plenary Assembly convened under the theme:

 

"Harnessing Artificial Intelligence (AI) For Effective and Efficient Parliamentary Processes in the SADC Region: Experiences, Challenges and Opportunities”

 

Madam Speaker, the plenary assembly was officially opened by His Excellency Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa, President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, and SADC Chairperson, who described the theme as timely and relevant. He emphasised that AI and digital technologies offer transformative potential for legislative processes, citizen engagement and inclusivity, particularly in multilingual societies. The President further called for regional co-operation in digital literacy, research, innovation and cross-border technology investment. He outlined Zimbabwe's efforts in technology investment, including the establishment of innovation hubs and the enactment of the Cyber and Data Protection Act, which is aimed at securing the ethical and responsible use of AI. President Mnangagwa also urged the delegates to ensure that African values and priorities shape the application of new technologies to preserve sovereignty, democratic traditions and people-centred governance. He re-affirmed the political will of SADC Heads of State in supporting the institutionalisation of the forum's role in regional integration and democratic development.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the plenary assembly considered country reports on the implementation of the resolutions of the 56^th Plenary Assembly, which was held in Livingstone, Zambia, in December 2024. Other reports considered include Standing Committee reports, the Report of the Regional Women's Parliamentary Caucus (RWPC), the Report of the Joint Sitting of Standing Committees, the Executive Committee Report on Policy and Administrative Matters, and the Treasurer's Report. In addition, four motions and one statement were considered, in accordance with the forum's rules of procedure.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to highlight some of the key recommendations that were made by the plenary assembly. The plenary assembly approved a resolution urging member states to embrace the adoption of AI technologies, recognising AI as an irreversible global trend with transformative benefits that significantly outweigh its associated risks. In this regard, there is a need for SADC Parliaments to undertake comprehensive assessments of their existing systems, including infrastructure, human resource capacity and skills gaps, as a basis for developing national strategic roadmaps for AI adoption. The assessments should also incorporate the consideration of potential ethical, legal and social risks associated with AI technologies. Further, the plenary assembly adopted the resolution urging member States to ensure that the adoption of AI promoted inclusivity by bridging the digital divide, ensuring that no citizen or community, particularly those in rural and underserved areas, was left behind. Parliamentarians were also called upon to provide effective oversight to guarantee equitable access to AI technologies and digital literacy for all.

 

Madam Speaker, the plenary assembly also upheld the resolution urging Parliaments to call upon their Governments to mobilise domestic resources and promote public-private partnerships (PPPs) aimed at modernising national digital infrastructure to support the implementation of AI, including investment in computing power, data storage and advanced digital ecosystems.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may further wish to note that the resolution urging member States to support the implementation of targeted AI forecast capacity building programmes for parliamentarians and parliamentary staff with the aim of enhancing AI literacy, ethical awareness and practical application of AI in legislative and oversight functions was also made. Member States were further urged to enact appropriate legislation and policies that facilitated the responsible and ethical adoption of AI while safeguarding individual rights, privacy, and national security.

 

As I wind up, Madam Speaker, the House may be interested to note that the Plenary Assembly adopted the resolution, calling on the SADC-PF to expedite the finalisation of the model law on AI to guide member parliaments in formulating and strengthening national legislation and regulatory frameworks on AI.

 

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish to express profound gratitude to you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to the delegation during the undertaking.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

 

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Ms Nyemba: Now, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you for granting me the opportunity to second this important Motion. Allow me, from the outset, to commend Hon. Victor Lumayi, Member of Parliament for Chavuma, for ably moving the Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, as rightly indicated by the mover, the 57^th Plenary Assembly was held under the theme, “Harnessing Artificial Intelligence for Effective and Efficient Parliamentary Processes in the SADC Region: Experiences, Challenges and Opportunities.”

 

Madam Speaker, the symposium reaffirmed that Artificial Intelligence (AI) is no longer a futuristic concept, but a transformative tool already reshaping governance, communication, and public service delivery. It is imperative, therefore, for AI to be proactively embraced, not only as a driver of efficiency but also as a means of strengthening democracy, enhancing transparency and promoting citizen engagement.

 

Madam Speaker, Zambia’s country report to the symposium reaffirmed the National Assembly’s commitment to digital transformation as outlined in its 2022-2026 Information Communication Technology (ICT) Strategic Plan, which aims to establish a smart, transparent and inclusive Parliament. Notable initiatives under this plan include the internally developed My e-Parliament mobile application and e-Chamber System, both designed to enhance real-time citizen engagement, streamline document management and enable electronic voting.

 

Further, Madam Speaker, the National Assembly of Zambia highlighted its on-going efforts to use AI to automate key functions. These include using AI to process hon. Members’ questions and avoid repetition, automatically transcribe debates using audio-to-text technology, apply sentiment analysis to help draft the Order Paper, and use natural language processing to detect unparliamentary language during debates. AI tools are also being explored to improve search functions for Presiding Officers and procedural staff.

 

Madam Speaker, the symposium made it clear that while AI offers great opportunities, it must be used responsibly and within clear regulations. Speakers at the forum stressed the need for ethical, right-based frameworks that ensure fairness, transparency and accountability. Zambia also supports the call by fellow Southern African Development Community (SADC) member States for a unified regional legal framework to guide the safe and responsible use of AI in Parliament.

 

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Zambia remains fully supportive of the transformation of the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) into a fully-fledged SADC Regional Parliament. The House may wish to note that thirteen SADC member States have since signed the agreement amending the SADC treaty to establish the SADC Parliament, with Botswana being the most recent, having signed on 26^th March, 2025. Furthermore, Madagascar and Mauritius are expected to sign the agreement during the 45^th SADC Heads of State and Government Summit, scheduled for August 2025 in Madagascar.

 

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I beg to second the Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Allow the people of Feira to add a few words to the debate on the Motion, which is on the Floor of the House. Let me start by thanking Hon. Lumayi for ably moving the Motion and the seconder, Hon. Nyemba.

 

Madam Speaker, the importance and the fundamental values of the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) are well known in this House. We have debated the issues of the SADC-PF and Artificial Intelligence (AI) before. However, I would like to underscore the statement His Excellency, Emerson Mnangagwa, President of Zimbabwe and SADC chairperson made at the official opening of the forum. He said there was a need for a shared spirit of unity and commitment to integration, industrialisation, peaceful and democratic Southern Africa. These are fundamental issues. I know the report is talking about how AI can be used by Parliament, but we are looking at how AI can be moved to address important issues. In his opening remarks at the official opening, President Mnangagwa raised the issue of developing the SADC election norms for free and fair elections. This is very important. Even as we discuss AI, we need to look at the governance that is taking place within the SADC region. This is one of the core goals of the SADC-PF. It is clear that we are still far behind in all such issues.

 

Madam Speaker, President Mnangagwa also talked about the industrial revolution, technological advancement, and industrial hubs. More importantly, he mentioned that as we move from where we are to the use of AI in the parliaments of SADC Member States, African values and priorities must shape the process of employing new technology. My problem is that AI technology emanates from Europe, then, brought to us, and we just embrace it as it is. It is important to evaluate our development stage, culture, and many other things. I agree with the seconder that such issues must be looked at cautiously.

 

Madam Speaker, the report gives us the impression that, yes, challenges have been noted, but AI should be embraced. In my view, its implementation should take a very slow pace. The reason is simple. It can undermine our business in the SADC Parliaments because it is a new advancement.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the issues that we would like to avoid is that – We get convinced to use AI basically as consumers. The main beneficiaries will be companies that produce these products. In my view, I think we should take it slowly. However, the British, the owners of these Parliaments – I keep saying this, in the view that we adopted a system of the British, they have taken an extremely slow pace in embracing AI. One would be surprised that even voting is still done manually.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I want to register that we need to be very cautious as we embrace the new technologies as the Southern African Development Community (SADC) as well as a country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, this Parliament is not for the British. This is the Zambian Parliament for the people of Zambia.

 

Mr E. Tembo: I said we adopted.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Pardon?

 

I was just correcting you because you misled the people.  This Parliament is for the people of Zambia.

 

We make progress.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for permitting me to make a few comments on a Motion ably moved by Hon. Lumayi and seconded by Hon. Nyemba, who are our representatives at the Southern African Development Community-Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF). They have shared with us the resolutions adopted at the 57^th SADC-PF Assembly, where they just came from.

 

Madam Speaker, before I comment on the resolutions made, I want to remind my colleagues who are part of the delegation that goes to the SADC-PF that indeed, they have made many recommendations, which are very critical for the parliamentary jurisdiction of the SADC but, more often than not, their enforcement and adoptions are just for lamentations, for us to debate and that is it. That is how it has been.  There must be practical recommendations on how jurisdictions will be compelled to implement the recommendations made at that platform for it to be meaningful. It is an old forum, which has existed for several years, yet the reports are just the same.

 

Madam Speaker, let me come to the recommendations that have been adopted. Indeed, digital transformation is the way to go for SADC Parliamentary Systems. I am saying this because we can only imagine what would have happened during the advent of the Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) when we all did not know what was going to happen. So, had we not had the digital platforms that were then implemented, we were going to find it difficult to transact business during that difficult time. So, digital transformation is, indeed, the way to go, and the recommendations come at a better time. However, we should also speak to the budget allocation that goes with the programmes because it costs a lot to implement new programmes.

 

Madam Speaker, both the mover and seconder of the Motion have emphasised on the need to adopt Artificial Intelligence (AI) as one of the tools to utilise in our institutions, but they have also emphasised the need to observe the sovereignty of nations because that borders on national security. This also brings in the responsible use of AI.

 

Madam Speaker, the recommendation to implement capacity building is among the programmes that have been suggested and this comes at a critical time when we are about to establish a training institute for this institution. So, capacity building programmes of capacitating hon. Members of Parliament should be a priority because sometimes out of ignorance, people have ended up using digital gadgets recklessly, thereby, endangering the security of the nation. It could be due to ignorance or is deliberate. However, the delegation emphasised that as we implement the programmes, we must have legal frameworks to guide the usage of AI. They are spot-on because the application of the few pieces of legislation, which we passed in this august House, does not seem to be effective since certain people flout and breach the cyber laws and get away with it while others are being punished for similar offences. In fact, some of those who have been punished are the ones who committed lesser offences. So, we agree with the delegation on the emphasis to ensure that the responsible use of this AI, which we are trying to embrace, is not ignored.

 

Madam Speaker, the delegation talked about ethical issues. It is important that as we embrace technology, we also do not put aside our ethics because as a legislative institution that offers oversight functions, we need to be fast. How are we going to hold other institutions accountable insofar as the use of AI is concerned if we do not provide the legal framework, later on, oversight, checks and balances on state and quasi-state institutions that are going to implement the Statutory Instruments (SIs)? So, the recommendations from the SADC-PF are timely. Indeed, we need to provide guidance as we pass legal frameworks for the usage of these important platforms.

 

Madam Speaker, I have already talked about training. We need to find resources as an institution to capacitate our new training institution so that it can be well ahead before we start implementing the SIs. The usage of technology and AI can be useful and harmful as well. It can also endanger the security of the nation if we do not pay attention to the legal frameworks as designed to suit that application.

 

Madam Speaker, every leader must be responsible in as far as the usage of AI is concerned. We must not use AI as a pretext to do wrong things. It is a useful tool which should not be misused and should not be used as a pretext for wrongdoing. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security should hold wrongdoers accountable for their mischief. They should not use this SI as an excuse to escape being punished for wrongdoing. That is why I do not like receiving phone calls.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is cardinal, and I am saying this because I know that my successor is here. Let the law be applied fairly and equitably to wrongdoers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lumayi: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the seconder of this Motion, Hon. Nyemba, who represents the wonderful people of Chifunabuli. Allow me to also thank the hon. Member for Feira and the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for their contributions and for supporting this Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, it is very clear that as a Committee, we have been reminded to track the resolutions that have been adopted and those that we have not adopted. We have trust that our secretariat is going to do the needful so that the recommendations, which have not yet been adopted, can be adopted. We will track and see which recommendations have not been adopted. I am sure that some recommendations have been adopted while others are yet to be adopted.

 

Finally, Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the whole House for supporting the Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

______

 

BILLS

 

SECOND READING

 

THE SUPERIOR COURTS (Number of Judges) BILL, 2025

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.) (on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Ms Kasune)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the House to take judicial notice of the principles that were presented before this House when I introduced the Bill. The principles are clear, and they have been accepted by the hon. Members of this august House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Dr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, …

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Andeleki: … pursuant to Standing Order No. 207(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

There is an indication for a point of order.

 

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, what is your point of order?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a serious procedural point of order.

 

Madam Speaker, the Acting hon. Minister of Justice is a very senior Member of this august House. He knows that at this stage, as acting Minister, he is supposed to read the objectives of the Bill that he is proposing for Second Reading in this august House. It is not procedural to just state things in the manner he has done.

 

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! They are tired!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

A point of order was raised. I was just consulting. Truly, the hon. Minister was supposed to read the objectives of the Bill, as usual, but I am sure –

 

Hon. Minister of Justice, do you have the list of objectives?

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Madam Speaker, I want to state the objects of this particular Bill. The object of this particular Bill is to increase the number of Judges in the High Court and the number of Judges in the Court of Appeal. We are presenting a proposal to this House with the intention to increase the number of superior court Judges as per the provisions of the law.

 

Those are the objectives, Madam Speaker.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Now that it is clear, can we make progress.

 

Dr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 207(j) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2024, the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance was tasked to consider the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Bill No. 15 of 2025, referred to it on Wednesday, 16^th July, 2025.

 

Madam Speaker, I will highlight a few observations and recommendations by the Committee, since hon. Members have already read the report of the Committee. The Committee noted that the High Court is primarily Zambia’s most accessible superior court vested with unlimited and original jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters, as well as broader appellant and supervisory powers over the subordinate courts. The Committee, therefore, commends the proposed increase in the number of High Court Judges from sixty to a maximum of 100. This will address the Judiciary’s capacity crisis and uphold the constitutional principles enshrined in Article 18 of the Constitution, which guarantees the right to a fair trial, and Article 118(2), which requires that justice be administered without discrimination or delay. The Committee recommends a periodic review of the prescribed number of judges related to the rate at which the population of Zambia grows. Increasing the number of judges will enable greater diversity in knowledge, experience and specialisation within the Judiciary. This is important in that it will cement the progressive inclination towards specialisation in the courts, which can be seen in the establishment of divisions of the High Court, such as the Industrial Relations Court, the Commercial Court and the Family and Children’s Court, in accordance with the provisions of Article 120 of the Constitution.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee also supports the increase in the number of judges of the Superior Court and believes that this will facilitate the establishment of more specialised courts and strengthen the overall quality of justice. The Committee, however, notes that the increase in the number of judges will come with financial implications and infrastructural challenges. Therefore, the Committee recommends that the Executive ensures that this increase is proportional to investment in court infrastructure, administrative staff and technological advancement, such as electronic filing (e-filing) systems. The Committee further recommends that comprehensive reference material, such as an online library and other resources, be provided to facilitate research and sound adjudication.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to place on record the Committee’s gratitude to all the stakeholders who tendered both written and oral submissions. The Committee wishes to thank you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the guidance and support rendered to it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this chance to comment on the debate on the Bill under consideration to be read a second time.

 

Madam Speaker, the decision that may arise from passing this Bill would be to increase the number of High Court Judges from sixty to 100, that is an increase of forty, as well as increase the number of judges in the Court of Appeal from nineteen to thirty-one, which is an increase of twelve. Altogether, the increase in the number of judges would be fifty-two. The problems that have been highlighted, such as cases not being disposed of on time as a result of having few judges, are understood. That notwithstanding, the Government needs to make scientific decisions. It needs to analyse problems comprehensively, then, make decisions on a scientific basis. Is it not good to add to the number of judges? It is good. However, let us just take a moment to ask a few questions. From where are those judges going to operate? What is the number of courtrooms and chambers at the moment? Enabling infrastructure, architecture and technology are important ingredients that the Government ought to consider. One might say that the Government will increase the budget for the Judiciary and, therefore, courtrooms will be expanded. Those who have had sight of the medium-term budget plan will tell you that the increments that have been proposed for 2026 to 2028 are so meagre that not even one courtroom can be expanded.

 

Madam Speaker, the House should not forget that the new judges will also require transport, supporting staff and other things that they need to deliver their work effectively. It is not just a matter of adding numbers because dignity has to be given to the people who are placed in those high positions. A judge must be respected. Judges can share a courtroom and chambers but, can they share offices? Where is their dignity if they are subjected to sharing offices where they keep their personal issues and meet people on business? It is important for the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to not just increase the number of judges, but also expand the architecture for them to work with dignity, and not this eating they talk about ati judge kulya. What type of eating are they talking about? Judge tekulya. Being a judge is not about eating, but delivering justice.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, it is about delivering justice.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the only way one delivers – ­

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lunte, you said that judge tekulya. What does that mean? Can you, please, translate.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, a judge must deliver justice for people. A judge is not there to eat.

 

Ms Sefulo: Eat what?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, some people think that being a judge is about eating.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, eating what?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the addition of fifty-two judges should be with a realisation that we are adding –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

 

The translation is not complete. What is being eaten? What is the judge eating? Just make it clear. We are lost. Can you finish your translation?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, “Judge kulya”, as was established in a certain conversation, means that for judges, it is about eating for them to deliver justice or justice influenced by eating.

 

Madam Speaker, the fifty-two new judges should not be thought of as being influenced by eating. They should be influenced by dignity.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, you are not debating on behalf of somebody. That is your debate. Can you be focused. When I ask you to translate, it is because you are the one who has mentioned the phrase, not another person. We want you to translate what you mean exactly. If you cannot translate, just withdraw the phrase and make progress.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I appreciate your counsel, which is audible. The UPND Government should think in terms of bringing judges in with dignity. To provide dignity, it should provide supporting architecture for the fifty-two new judges. The Government should not act as though the addition is like the number for hon. Member of Parliament that it wants to increase by ninety-two without expanding the Chamber. No. We are talking about judges and, therefore, infrastructure should be expanded for them. The Government should show that it respects them and that they are people who will deliver justice, not only for hon. Members of Parliament whose seats have been affected, but for all the people of Zambia who seek justice.

 

Madam Speaker, this particular proposal –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was trying to make a case that Judges need to be employed for good reasons and not for unethical reasons.

 

Mr Speaker, employing fifty-two Judges is good, but supporting infrastructure, architecture and technology will tell us that the United Party for National Development (UPND) cannot employ these Judges unless they want to do so for bad reasons.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, Judges need to be influenced by ethical conduct, not by demonstrations. We do not want people to plan demonstrations to influence a Judge to make a particular decision. That is unethical, and it should not be a subject of our justice system.

 

Mr Speaker, the justice system should not be put to the highest bidder. Justice must not be for the highest bidder. One cannot auction justice in a nation. This is why I am saying that before the Government thinks of expanding the number of Judges, it should not be taken as though expanding hon. Members of Parliament. These arbitrary decisions should be avoided. There ought to be science in the manner the UPND Government arrives at its decisions. Science will show the need for more Judges because of the many cases that have not been concluded on time. However, how are those Judges going to operate? If those requirements of science are not plugged in, we will end up with a situation in which cadres will think that they can just go and demonstrate, and the Judge will pass a judgment. We will end up with Judges who cannot pass judgments because those judgments are unfavourable to some subjects. Our country requires a sober, sane, transparent and accountable justice system.

 

Mr Speaker, not long ago, I stood here, and I warned the Zambian people that if they think they can achieve accountability or transparency from the UPND Government, they should think that way at their own peril, because everything –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lunte, may you resume your seat. When you are debating, ensure that you confine yourself to the matters at hand.

 

Mr Kapyanga: Judge afwile alyamo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Trying to smear mud on people who cannot defend themselves, especially professionals, is not good. It is also not good to trivialise the work of Judges, how they assume office, and to politicise matters that are not on the Floor of the House. So, I guide you to confine yourself to the issues at hand.

 

You may proceed.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, let me end by urging the UPND Government to employ Judges for good reasons. Let me request my colleagues in the UPND, if they are able to take advice, to conduct a scientific study of this problem and organise everything so that everything is in conformity with their decision to employ Judges.

 

Mr Speaker, I have had sight of the medium-term plan. I can tell you that there is nothing –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your time is up. May you resume your seat.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, it is clear that as a nation, we ought to appreciate the role that the Judiciary plays, not only in the dispensation of Justice but also in the stability of our society. We have to understand that Judges interpret the law. In their process of dispensing Justice, they do interpret the law.

 

Mr Speaker, I will not go into the details of the essential elements that they use to interpret the law. There are so many elements of interpretation that Judges use. At times, in the absence of an express explanation of the law, they look into the mind of the Legislature to establish what it is that the lawmakers were trying to achieve. It is from the Judges that the law is developed. We should take note of that. We, as a nation, practise what we call an adversarial system. Therefore, Judge-made laws or decisions of the courts become part of our laws. Judges do not just wake up and pass judgment. Zambians have to understand that. There is always a legal reasoning behind each decision, which lawyers, like our hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, might call stare decisis.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, someone has just mentioned one term, “Ratio decidendi”, the legal reasoning. That is what Judges use. No wonder good lawyers refer to the law. They say good lawyers know where to find the law. So, if Judges pass judgments, let us not demonise them. They are simply interpreting the law.

 

Rev. Katuta: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, one can only argue with a Judge through an appeal. Even then, we have courts of finality. We have the Constitutional Court and the Court of Appeal, whose decisions are final. No matter how we argue, Judges interpret the law. They understand the law. If you do not get your way, it means you have missed the law. It is as simple as that.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, coming to the number of Judges, we say, “Justice delayed is Justice denied.” Why are we not having our cases heard within a reasonable time? It is because we do not have enough Judges. Hon. Members can check when the courts are in sessions. A High Court judge would be needed in Chapata and from Chapata, the same judge would need to be in Livingstone. As a result, people have been in detention for more than two or three years.

 

Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chama South, I am in support of this Motion. If anything, I urge the Government to go further to not only increase the number of judges, but also look at the conditions of –

 

Mr Kafwaya started leaving the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Member, where are you going?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member for Chama South.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker, I was appealing to the hon. Minister to go beyond and to not only increasee the number of judges, but look at the conditions of service for judges. According to the ranking of independence of judiciaries on the African ccontinent, Cape Verde is among the top three countries. South Africa is the third. We cannot compare the conditions of service for judges in South Africa with that of judges here in Zambia. Zambian judges also need adequate infrastructure. We should not expect them to compete over small spaces. I know that as a nation, we can construct adequate court infrastructure. We can also offer attractive conditions of service to the men and women on the bench so that they above reproach. I know that at times, temptations are personal. No matter how much someone can be remunerated, if the character of an individual is weak, he or she will still be tempted. However, I believe we can do more to ensure that we do not only appreciate the judges, but also build their capacity.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to submit that we should also look at the statistics. What is the recommended ratio for the population against the number of judges in a country? Are we achieving that ratio? I will give examples of some countries. Kenya has a population of about 48 million people and it has more than 400 judges. We only have a population of about 20 million or 28 million people, but this is when we are talking about increasing the number of judges to 100. However, that is a step in the right direction.

 

Mr Speaker, we cannot have cases that are supposed to be heard within a month taking three or four years. In some cases, the plaintiff or complainant dies before receiving justice. So, the Bill on the Floor is a step in the right direction. I hope that next year or in a few months, we will increase the population/judge ratio so that justice is served to our people.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to debate the amendment of the Superior Courts (Number of Judges) Act No. 9 of 2016.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that the Act being amended now was passed, of course, as an amendment in 2016, to remind ourselves that, in fact, this amendment is coming on the heels of one that was made in 2016. Those who are angry now, for whatever reason, should have also been angry in 2016 because as the number of judges was being increased at the High Court and Court of Appeal, the challenges they want to highlight today were there and are even worse. Surprisingly, some people want to politicise all of a sudden on issues that they had dealt with when they had the opportunity to be in charge of the affairs of this nation. It is, indeed, saddening. This is a straightforward and progressive amendment, which all well-meaning Zambians and hon. Members of Parliament must accept and support.

 

Mr Speaker, my hon. Colleague from Chama South has already elucidated some of the points I was going to highlight and so, I will not regurgitate them for purposes of focussing our attention on some of the issues highlighted in the report of the Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, one of the challenges the nation has in as far as judges are concerned is, first of all, a very low number of judges available to adjudicate cases. I had the opportunity, just a few weeks ago, to sit in a courtroom at the Mongu High Court. On a Friday, I went there to listen to the proceedings. Way into the night, the court was still sitting. Up to around 2100 hours, the court was still sitting. The following morning, which was on Saturday, the court resumed at 0800 hours. What is that telling us? Judges are working very hard to ensure that the backlog is cleared. However, since the human resource base is limited, it means the impact of progress in terms of clearing the cases that are supposed to be heard in the High Court is very limited. Although judges may try to make progress, they will still have a big case backlog building up because the population has increased. So, the proposal to increase the number of judges from sixty to 100 at the High Court, as well as from nineteen to thirty-one at the Court of Appeal, is very much welcome and, indeed, in order.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to add that as we add the proposed numbers, we should also focus on ensuring that provincial capitals outside the line of rail are remembered with permanent based judges in those areas so that the backlog in places such as Mongu, Solwezi, Mansa and Kasama can also be addressed.

 

Mr Speaker, I know that the problem of a limited number of judges is throughout the country, but it is worse especially in areas where people have to wait for visiting judges or judges on circuit. That means that accused persons sometimes take a very long time in remand without their cases being heard. In many cases, by the time they are pronounced guilty or not guilty, they would have already been punished by being detained for a long period of time because their cases could not be adjudicated over quickly as a result of not having enough judges.

 

Mr Speaker, this is a non-political amendment. It is something the House should be united over and support.  We promised the people that they would enjoy better access to justice as quick hearing of cases is part of better access to justice. My hon. Colleague who debated before me already highlighted the old adage that, “Justice delayed is justice denied”.  We, the people of Luena, will support anything that will improve the situation.

 

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I would like to say I support the amendment and I will, indeed, vote for it should it come to that.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkandu: Quality!

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I took time to read the report. First and foremost, the law is dynamic. Also, we need to move with time. Various hon. Colleagues have pointed out various issues to do with population vis-à-vis the number of Judges.

 

Mr Speaker, numbers do not lie. Page 2 of the report states that in 2023, the High Court was confronted with a cumulative caseload of 23,000 cases, comprising 19,609 civil cases and 3,764 criminal cases. If you look at the number of cases, you will see that it does not correlate with a speedy judicial process. So, it is imperative that as a nation, we critically look at some of the issues affecting the Judiciary and how we can mitigate the problem. I think that the situation has culminated into the proposal to increase the number of Judges at the High Court and the Supreme Court. Suffice it to say that we also need to critically look at the issue of infrastructure, which many hon. Colleagues also highlighted. I presume that the Executive has looked at the issue of infrastructure and personal emoluments for Judges because they are not low-paid employees. For this amendment to come to the House, I believe that the issue of infrastructure and personal emoluments has been looked at, because you plan first before you amend a law.

 

 Mr Speaker, looking at our provincial towns and how Judges move around them, I think, it is imperative that we have permanent Judges in those jurisdictions to enhance our judicial processes and ensure that Zambians have access to a speedy judicial process, as it were. My hon. Colleagues from Luena, Lunte and Chama South spoke about the issue of infrastructure and whether we can accommodate more Judges within our fiscal space. If we have looked at the number of Judges to be increased and budgeted for it, I think, it is important that we support this amendment because it will work to our advantage. The population is increasing. Some issues can be put in a subsidiary Act; the law is not static. Things are dynamic and the population is not static. If we had 10,000 policemen, but the population increased, we would need to revisit the number of policemen and employ more. It is the same with Judges. What I am saying is that the new number of Judges should be adequately looked and planned for. Is it in our medium-term plan? Such things should be effectively planned. If we employ more Judges, do we have funding to expand the infrastructure to accommodate them? Do we have funding to ensure that the additional Judges will be paid? If you look at outstanding issues in the report by the Public Accounts Committee, you will see that there are cases from 2011 and 2014 which have not been resolved yet in the courts of law. Why? It is because of the caseload. If some of these things are looked at, we can reduce the caseload for Judges. Some cases involve misdemeanours and can be disposed of. If we have budgeted and looked at the infrastructure, or if have we have extrapolated all these things to ensure that there are no delayed salaries or people sharing offices in the foreseeable future because of the increased staff, I think, we should support this Motion. It is a progressive Motion. Provided that what hon. Members have highlighted will be looked at effectively to ensure that there is harmony and a seamless process to the increased number of Judges, the amendment is good and I support it.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. Colleagues for the support rendered to this very progressive Bill under consideration. We have taken note of the issues that have been raised by the hon. Members and your Committee, in particular, the issue of infrastructure. We already have a plan to provide adequate courtrooms for our men and women in the Judiciary. Obviously, we have taken into account the financial challenges.

 

Mr Speaker, I also want to respond to some of the issues that have been raised by my hon. Colleagues, in particular, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte. We are the only Government in the history of this country which has taken a very bold step to advertise vacant positions for Judges.

 

Mr Mukosa: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: We are the only Government to do that. This has never happened before.

 

Mr Speaker, despite the fact that we are not compelled by any law to advertise the positions, we have gone ahead to do it so that members of the public who are qualified and aspire to high judicial office are accorded the opportunity to apply for the positions.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Lunte, wherever he is now, cast aspersions against us and the Judiciary pertaining to our conduct. We, in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, have never threatened any Judge, and I stand on firm ground on that point.

 

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

 

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: We have never. However, those on the left, through the leader of the party and the leader of the Government then, threatened Judges and the State in Solwezi. He stated that if they ruled against him, he would take action. He stated that Judges should not follow the Kenyan situation, and if they did, he was going to deal with them.

 

Mr Nkandu: It is on record.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: It is on record. We have never done that.

 

Hon. PF Members: You are the worst.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, avoid debating while seated.

 

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Michelo: What point of order?

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the privilege to choose who to speak is for the Presiding Officer.

 

Hon. PF Members: Mmh!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: That is enshrined in our Standing Orders.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Just as we have the privilege to debate.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Do not engage or look at me otherwise. The people who have spoken are equally hon. Members of Parliament. Do not have the perception that when you speak, then you are representing everyone’s views.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: It is important for everyone to be able to speak.

 

Mr Kapyanga: No one can speak my mind.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: It does not work like that.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, proceed.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, we respect the judges and we will accord them the respect that is due to them. We do not wake judges up at midnight, take them somewhere and pay them money, like others used to do.

 

Mr Speaker, we have heard the complaints from members of the public pertaining to the dispensation of justice. As the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa indicated, some appeal cases have been outstanding for more than twenty years. The accused individuals may eventually be found innocent, but they would have been punished. We are trying to find ways and means of ensuring that justice is dispensed to the people of Zambia. That is exactly what we are doing with this Bill. I have heard insinuations that we are going to put our own people as judges. No. We have advertised for members of the public to apply.

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: That is happening for the first time.

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Yes!

 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that one hon. Member, who purportedly won by five votes, went to court and the court upheld his election despite our suspicions.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I do not want to name him here, in the House. He is very vocal and always says that the United Party for National Development (UPND) will lose power. How can we lose when we won when our friends were still in power?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwimbu, SC.: They did mingalato and a certain hon. Member won by five votes.

 

Ms Mulenga: Ninani?

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: This time around, he will only get five votes.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, we know him. He is very vocal and he is in this House.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: His constituency is somewhere after Mkushi, but I will not name it.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta: Ah! So, you are the one?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Mr Speaker, I just want to assure members of the public, through this House, that our intentions are noble. We will take into account all the issues that have been raised by hon. Members. Conditions of service for the Public Service will be looked at holistically. We do not look at the conditions of service in isolation from other employees in the Public Service. So, we will deal with that.

 

Mr Speaker, I am also aware that we bought a structure from the German Government, which we have rehabilitated and given to the Judiciary. So, we are doing something regarding infrastructure. We have been constructing courtrooms throughout the country to ensure that our men and women in the Judiciary are looked after.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to thank our hon. Colleagues for supporting the Bill. It is a noble proposal, which should be supported by all of us.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

 

Committee on Wednesday, 30^th July, 2025.

 

REPORT STAGE

 

The Border Management and Trade Facilitation Bill, 2025

 

Report adopted.

 

Third Reading on Wednesday, 30^th July, 2025.

 

THIRD READING

 

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

 

The National Road Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2025

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

CHAIRING THE CONSIDERATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon, Members, as you may be aware, the next order on the Order Paper is the consideration of the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee. As the chairperson of the Committee, I cannot preside over the proceedings during the consideration. In this regard, I will briefly suspend the Business of the House to allow Madam First Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.

 

I thank you.

 

_______

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

CONSIDERATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE IN CAMERA

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, as you may be aware, an announcement was made by Hon. Madam Speaker on Friday, 25^th July, 2025, that Article 89(2) of the Constitution of Zambia requires the National Assembly to not exclude the public or media from its sittings unless there are justifiable reasons to do so. The Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee is classified under the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, as a House-Keeping Committee, as it deals with in-house matters hinging on the powers, privileges, procedures and practices, organisation and facilities of the Assembly. For this reason, the debate on the report of the Committee, which the House is about to continue considering, will be held in camera. In view of the foregoing, I direct all members of the public and media to leave the House. I further direct that broadcasting of the proceedings on Parliament Radio, Parliament TV and social media be suspended during the consideration of the report.

 

I thank you.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much. When the House adjourned last Friday, I was just about to conclude my discourse.

 

Madam Speaker, I did emphasise the point that we must ensure that the Parliamentary Service Commission is put in place so that matters of this institution can be handled just like other Parliamentary jurisdictions in the Commonwealth.

 

Madam Speaker, the time is moving so fast, but I will take advantage of the remaining time to make a plea to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who was the Party Whip on the other side and left a number of measures in place. The hon. Minister should note that the same problems he left when he was the Party Whip still exist. I know he tried to do what he could. My plea is that if there is something that the hon. Members and members of staff should remember him for, it is putting in place the Parliamentary Service Commission to ensure that the challenges that hon. Members have been grappling with for so many years are addressed practically. We take advantage of him because he knows the challenges of this institution, which includes hon. Members of Parliament, Presiding Officers, and members of staff, better than anyone, given that he has been on both sides of this august House. So, we plead with him to do something that we can remember him for, for those who will come back to the House and those who will not.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, your time is up.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am speaking for my colleagues, as their union leader. At the moment, the Standing Orders have no power. Hon. Members should know that we now have to subject everything that we recommend for them to another institution called the Emoluments Commission.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up.

 

Mr Kampyongo:  Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I will just touch on a few areas that have not been touched on by those who have debated before me.

 

Madam Speaker, as part of the reforms in improving participation by the public in the business of Parliament, one of the aspects that we would like to highlight is the issue of support to the constituency offices. Constituency offices play a very critical role, and some of the reforms that Parliament has already implemented. Not too long ago, we had a workshop, as Members of Parliament, and we were taught how we can receive submissions from our constituencies online and that we should be able to respond to them also online. As far as I know, while we, Members of Parliament are equipped with iPads, the same gadgets are not available at our constituency offices to enable us to interact with our professional assistants much more efficiently. So, we would suggest that in the future, Parliament should consider equipping the offices with more modern gadgets other than the desktops that we currently have in our offices in order to increase local participation. This will enable people to walk into the office and use the gadgets to make their submissions if they do not have smartphones. As we know, in most of our rural areas, people do not have access to smartphones.

 

Madam Speaker, still on the issue of the constituency offices. The Office of the Member of Parliament is one that is sometimes strangely looked at, in the sense that an hon. Member of Parliament is expected to go and sensitise the public on the laws or Bills that they will vote on behalf of the public. However, there is no deliberate effort to facilitate the hon. Member doing so from the constituency. It has already been highlighted by those who debated before me that we are supposed to go to the constituencies, and that only happens when the House adjourns. However, once we get to the constituency to hold meetings, which are part and parcel of the job description of the Member of Parliament, there is no facilitation. An hon. Member must do that at his/her own cost. So, 100 per cent of the time, hon. Members are voting on behalf of people whom they have not consulted. This means that the people’s wishes, even as we are the people’s representatives, will not necessarily be reflected in our debates and voting in this House. This is because a key aspect of how we would have consulted those constituents is not supported. So, we would like to suggest that in the future, this should be considered, because it is actually the primary responsibility of an hon. Member of Parliament to interact with the constituents in that manner. A specific number of trips can be financed, especially now that we have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) vehicles that are available in our constituencies and districts. I think that a much more deliberate effort should be put in place to ensure that movements of hon. Members within the constituencies are facilitated in order to perform that important role.

 

Madam Speaker, let me come to another issue that has been highlighted before; the welfare of your hon. Members. Regarding medical insurance for hon. Members, currently, we do enjoy the provision of the medical insurance cover, but it is restricted to Members of Parliament. It is sometimes, very difficult when one has –

 

Mr Amutike: Embarrassing.

 

Mr Anakoka: Yes, embarrassing, as my colleague is urging and adding to my debate. It is sometimes very difficult and embarrassing when a spouse or a child falls sick and needs medical attention, then they are taken to the lower cost or at the general reception, while I, as Member of Parliament, go to Coptic Hospital at the high cost ward, because I have the medical insurance cover. That does not augur well. If it means adding a little bit more to what we contribute towards the medical insurance so that the service can be extended to our families, then that would be better. In any case, whichever health facility we take our families to, we still foot the bills from our own pockets. So, that matter must be considered or revisited to see how it can be improved.

 

Madam Speaker, finally, let me talk about our motel. I have had the misfortune of spending nights in different rooms from time to time. This may happen when an hon. Member comes on a private business and they find that their room is being repaired, then they are given another room. My experience is that in all the rooms that I have had an opportunity to spend a night in, the beds make a lot of noise. I do not know how old those beds are. Every time you turn, you have to wake up because of the noise.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, I do not understand –

 

Hon. Members: Question!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, maybe, it is because of the innocence of my mind, but I do not understand why they are questioning me. However, when one is sleeping in a bed, it is not supposed to make any noise, even when one turns. I think, that is an aspect that needs to be looked at.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the other aspect is that as part of the hon. Members’ hard work, they sometimes arrive at the Members' Motel early in the morning, maybe, around 0400 hours having driven the whole night from the constituency. As such, one would want to rest and decide to wake up around 1100 hours, but at 0800 hours, somebody will be knocking saying, “housekeeping” because there is no option to even put “a do not disturb” sign outside the door. Of course, there might be other circumstances where people do not want to be disturbed, but for me, I am just looking at when I want to rest.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Anakoka: It will not cost so much money to just add a little sticker saying, “Do not disturb.” Sometimes, we just want to concentrate on reading parliamentary reports, some of which have twenty, thirty or forty pages. So, one would not want to be disturbed.

 

Madam Speaker, those minor adjustments will make your hon. Members here to be very productive and probably, the anger that you see in the House from time to time will be minimised.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I would like to support the report of your Committee.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

 

Hon. Members, we must conclude debate on this report. So, please, let us not be repetitive, but be focused on the report.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I thank you so much.

 

Madam Speaker, we have been debating the issue regarding our conditions of service and at the same time, we have been expecting some improvement. However, it seems like we just talk about this and whatever we discuss is shelved somewhere.

 

Madam Speaker, when it comes to salaries or allowances, Zambian hon. Members of Parliament are the lowest paid in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region. The other thing is the issue of vehicles. We are given loans to purchase vehicles. However, when we look at our hon. Colleagues in Zimbabwe, we see that it is a different story yet, we claim that their country is under sanctions and that the economy is bad.  So, my proposal is that we should not be given loans to purchase vehicles because before even the five-year term ends, one may be, involved in a road accident. For us who go to rural constituencies, where the roads are so bad, the vehicle will be nothing to talk about by the time it clocks five years, yet one has been paying for it.  Therefore, I would like to suggest that instead of being forced to buy the vehicles from the car dealers, hon. Members should just be given the money so that it becomes part of their gratuity. Therefore, the loan of US$84,000 that we are given should be part of our gratuity so that we can make decisions on how to spend the money. So, whether one buys a Sikorokoro vehicle that may not even take him/her anywhere, that will be their problem.

 

So, to make hon. Members pay for vehicle using money that is advanced to them is very expensive. Our sitting allowances are not sustainable. They cannot even enable one to reach to the constituency. Therefore, my proposal on the issue of vehicles should be taken seriously. Why can we not just be given vehicles just like any other hon. Members of Parliament in the southern region of Africa?

 

Madam Speaker, regarding the issue at the Members' Motel, we have laboured and complained about this. I was hoping that proper accommodation would be given to couples. This is the reason some of our fellow male hon. Members bring nieces there because their wives are at home. If they were given apartments, where they could lodge with their families, as is the case in Bangladesh, it would help us stop seeing things and hearing some hon. Members’ names and images being flooded on social media, that they like small girls. It is not good.

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the issue of apartments should also be taken seriously so that hon. Members can bring their families, wives or maybe, even husbands.

 

Mr Amutike: Question!

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, somebody is questioning because their nieces will not be visiting. At the moment, it is like a slaughterhouse or an abattoir.

 

Interruptions

 

Rev. Katuta: They are guilty.

 

Interruptions

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, may I continue? I am just saying this on behalf of the future hon. Members of Parliament. I know that the current ones like it that way, but on a serious note, we need to have apartments because it will help families to show that hon. Members value and respect families.

 

Madam Speaker, the last thing I want to talk about is the issue of the K800 that we are charged at the Members’ Motel a day, but some of us have our own homes within Lusaka. So, it will be only fair to give the K800 they charge every day to hon. Members who have homes within Lusaka so that it can help them in some way. When we look at the total amount we pay for those rooms, we see that it is almost K11,000 for a small room. So, it would be better to give that money to hon. Members because it will help them use in their constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I support the report. However, I ask the House to help with the issue of the vehicles because it would be very important if we can be given the vehicles instead of buying.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank you, very much. I will not take much time, but in supporting the report, I would like to add a few things.

 

Madam Speaker, the first issue is on the transport of hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, if hon. Members could be given the leeway to choose or if they were given money, they would be able to buy maybe, two, three or four duty-free vehicles and this would reduce stress. For example, we are compelled to have one vehicle gotten on loan, for that matter. Then, when it has a problem, we have to take it to Toyota Zambia, which is commercial. So, the company charges quite a lot. When the vehicle is in the garage, for instance, one will be forced to maybe, use a personal vehicle. So, can we not change the narrative where we can be given money and the leeway to choose? For instance, if that is done, one can go for very good second-hand vehicles and buy maybe, two or three? One can be used for constituency work to run up and down while the other one is a backup, and so on and so forth. So, it is important that we consider the aspect of transport for hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, we have a garage here, at Parliament. Why not enhance it in terms of capacitating our personnel there with the machinery for alignment and get good people who can service cars so that Parliament vehicles or those which hon. Members of Parliament use can be serviced through our own garage here. I think, that is important, because I have seen that some hon. Members, instead of taking the vehicle to Toyota Zambia, go on the streets. On the streets, one cannot guarantee the proper servicing of the vehicles. Yes, you may have bush mechanics here and there. Some are good, but really, we compromise these vehicles. So, for me, that is one area that needs to be looked at.

 

Madam Speaker, on the health aspect, your hon. Members need to be healthy. The issue of a gym should be considered. Let us have an area where a gym can be put up. You called for aerobic activities; they should be daily or weekend activities for hon. Members of Parliament. Those who can cycle, skip or ride a motorbike for a long distance like me should have such amenities. Health is wealth. It is very important. So, we need to look at the issue of a gym as soon as possible. We can even have a small pitch where hon. Members can play soccer and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, indeed, the issue of accommodation has been talked about. We pay about K800 per night at the Members Motel. That amount multiplied by twenty nights is K16,000. If I were given K16,000, I would rent a fully furnished apartment, where I can lodge with family and friends. They can sit and talk with me at an apartment. I know that there may be reasons hon. Members stay at Parliament Motel. However, the money we spend is not commensurate with the service. The food that we eat is not healthy, so to speak. We are overloaded with a lot of meat or proteins, and it is up to an individual to regulate the amount of food to eat. I think that the food we eat is not healthy. If you go to a restaurant out there, you will find almost the same amount of food but different varieties, well-cooked and tasty. I think that area also needs to be looked at. Of course, in the rooms, we can have possibly microwaves and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, those are the few things I needed to add to support the Motion.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are going outside the report. The main issue or the subject matter is enhancing participation of the public in the work of Parliament. In the Action-Taken Report, basically, about four or five issues have been mentioned, namely incorporating Artificial Intelligence (AI), provision of childcare facilities, revision of conditions of service for Members, gratuity, introduction of an allowance for meals during local tours, provision of Members of Parliament with drivers, security, unique vehicle identity for Members, actualisation of the Parliamentary Service Commission, and construction of a hotel with modern amenities for Members of Parliament. I think, basically, those are the main issues that hon. Members are supposed to debate, but we are going way outside the report.

 

So, with that guidance, and without repeating what has already been mentioned, I call upon the hon. Member for Chilubi.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I pray that I confine myself to the report, as you have said.

 

Madam Speaker, as you have said, this very Parliament passed the law regarding the Parliamentary Service Commission and the Emoluments Commission. I was in the Committee that looked at the Emoluments Commission Bill. The Bill was rejected; it was decided that we should not go down that route. Sometimes, let us learn to respect our own reports and our recommendations. The Emoluments Commission Bill was bulldozed through the House, and that has affected not only this Parliament but many Government workers, including those from the Judiciary. When there is a report or Bill being looked at, let us learn to pay attention to details. At the end of the day, we are affected because we cruise to pass the Bills. The Parliamentary Service Commission is not even helpful for the workers of our institution.

 

Madam Speaker, having said that, I feel that the report has not done justice to the issue of public participation in parliamentary issues. We all know that one article in the Constitution encourages public participation in parliamentary work. Article 88 stipulates how the public is supposed to participate, and people are allowed to petition Parliament on different issues, apart from indirectly participating through their representatives. Further, public participation has been properly laid down in our Standing Orders. However, it has not been prioritised, so many members of the public are not aware of it. I think that the last time Article 88 was used was when a certain youth petitioned Parliament to review the Youth Development Council Act, which is now archaic. The report talks about 26 per cent level of public participation, but it did not go into the nitty-gritty and the avenue for public participation, so that we can arrive at a station where the public can start feeling comfortable participating in parliamentary issues. If people feel that something has not been attended to by their representatives, they can use Article 88 of the Constitution.

 

Madam Speaker, another factor I would like to talk about is the issue of gratuity.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I am sure that you are referring to Article 89.

 

Mr Fube: Article 88, Madam Speaker, not Article 89. It is Article 88 of the Constitution of Zambia.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  On public participation?

 

Mr Fube: Yes, the one which talks about the right to petition Parliament.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay.

 

Mr Fube: Yes, Madam Speaker, it is not Article 89, but Article 88. I think, on that one, I am a bit sure.

 

Madam Speaker, let me come to the issue of gratuity. I know that it is shrouded in all sorts of theories. There are different theories about it. The Constitution is supposed to change in a certain corner. We all know that, for instance, if it is announced today that I am a Member of Parliament, my term starts today, meaning that it should end at the cycle of the next elections. I think that this is not a very complicated issue. There must be computation of days, instead of going the Constitution amendment route. We have very educated personnel at Parliament with expertise in different fields. Some of them are in the legal, accounting and other professions. They can navigate this question without even touching the Constitution. They can even use subsidiary laws to qualify the issue. Even issues of labour and industrial relations affect us. However, addressing these issues has become a tall order. It is like everything is supposed to be addressed through the Constitution; I do not believe that it should be that way.

 

Madam Speaker, another factor that I want to touch on is visitations to our constituencies. I know that an allowance for that is reflected on our payslips. Like other hon. Members, I can attest that the allowance is spent on funerals, sicknesses and many other factors. I will use myself as an example, but I am not debating myself. The allowance takes me up to only Luwingu or Mansa; I have to sort out the rest of the transport cost. When visiting my constituency, I use a combination of water and land transport, which takes me to a cracked office on the island. When I reach the island, if I want to visit the swamps, I should prepare two drums of petrol for my own boat so that I can go and perform my role of representing the people. I cannot leave the people in the swamps alone; I have to physically go and check on them because they need to feel represented by their representative. They even question me on certain things that I am not doing according to their expectations. All this is left to the hon. Member of Parliament. An hon. Member of Parliament should fit a jigsaw puzzle and find answers to effectively represent the people. Apart from that, I have to go to the mainland to buy many drums of diesel to comb the island. All the money required to do this can come from a business. Sometimes, the people we represent say that we do not visit them or do this and that. Whereas some constituencies can be covered by small vehicles, others cannot. Can Mafinga Constituency be covered by a corolla in one day? I am not sure about that. Some constituencies can be covered in one day using a Toyota Corolla. In my case, I need to spare ten to twenty days to cover the constituency for one to say that the Member of Parliament has visited his constituents. Such imbalances are supposed to be tackled. I think, many people are in my category.

 

Madam Speaker, the model of care that we currently have at Parliament leaves much to be desired. I know that some of my fellow hon. Members who tackled this particular issue talked about diet and a gymnasium. However, it goes beyond that. We need to provide a variety of things for hon. Members to choose from, for example, badminton or table tennis. It is not an insult, but most of your hon. Members are clients of obesity, if not non-communicable diseases. There must be a deliberate policy to deal with such issues. When hon. Members come to Parliament for the first time, they should find an environment that allows them to make choices that can help them maintain fitness. We just have a football pitch where Hon. Munsanje goes sometimes. The football team is the only thing that helps people burn calories. Even though we call a certain place as an abattoir, …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Fube: … energy can be consumed in many ways, like sports, if at all hon. Members were prepared to an extent, and they would be preoccupied.

 

Madam Speaker, there is an issue with the library, and I even petitioned the Hon. Speaker about it at some point. We have to make the library available to members of the –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up.

 

Hon. Member for Mwandi, you do not have to exhaust all eight minutes, if possible.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion to adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee, which is on the Floor of the House.

 

In supporting the Motion, Madam Speaker, I would like to speak, specifically, about our constituency offices. Although some of our constituencies are very rural, some of our constituency offices are based in peri-urban areas. You will find that for us to visit or receive submissions from the farthest ward, we have to ask our professional assistants (PAs) to travel from the constituency office to get submissions, especially when we are here attending parliamentary Sessions. Our constituency offices do not have means of transport whatsoever. That means that we have to fund whatever needs to happen while we are here. It is different for hon. Members who are based in urban areas. Their PAs can do everything because things are within a short distance. It is hard for us in rural constituencies. As a result, we always have to finance modalities.

 

Madam Speaker, my office in Mwandi does not have furniture. There are times when things are happening on the Floor of the House and people would want to watch the parliamentary proceedings at the constituency office. However, my office does not have a television (TV) set, which means that those who would want to watch the proceedings do not have access. At the moment, we have internet service that is not accompanied by any TV. The non-availability of furniture is shameful. To host a meeting in my office, I have to hire chairs. The office only has a single chair for me, which was also delivered recently. That situation needs to improve. The Apple iPads that were given are obsolete. The office of the Member of Parliament should also be equipped with even a fridge. Do you know that some offices do not even have seats? So, it is difficult for us to do our work. We need to find a way of providing transport for our PAs or the people who work in our constituency offices for them to carry out certain tasks while we are in Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to comment on the issue of security for hon. Members. As a Member of Parliament, for starters, I drive myself from Parliament to Mwandi, and around generally. Otherwise, I have to personally hire a driver. One can imagine that when we are going to commission projects, while I drive myself there, the Mayors, Council Chairpersons and District Commissioners (DCs) have vehicles, drivers and security. When are we going to learn lessons on the issue of security for hon. Members? I think, it is very important to address that issue. I will give another example. The day before yesterday, I was swept off the road and I veered into another lane because there was a police motor vehicle in the way, which was not even in a hurry. Police motor vehicles will just sweep you off the road without any regard. Some form of identity (ID) for the vehicles of hon. Members is important. It does not have to be a flag. Even a badge can do so that people can identify hon. Members when they are on the road. It is dangerous out there to just move without any identification.

 

 Madam Speaker, one of the things that this Government has spoken about is the unification of families. The New Dawn Government has said that it wants families to be together. It has gone further to say that it promotes the idea of teachers or nurses, who are in areas away from their families, swapping so that families can live together. However, when it comes to your hon. Members, it is a different story for those who are married and do not have accommodation in Lusaka. It is not a good thing. They live in motels where their families cannot visit. Some of them are young. They cannot stay far from their wives, such that they see them once every two months. So, what are we promoting? At the end of it all, it becomes difficult for those hon. Members to stay in Lusaka because their wives do not visit. So, what are we saying? We should provide decent accommodation for hon. Members so that their families can also live with them. Even the beds that we have cannot be shared with one’s spouse, especially for some of us who are big. How can it be done? It is impossible.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, we need to improve on where your hon. Members sleep. Our beds are tiny. That means that when we are here for the Sittings, we are supposed to be single. As long as an hon. Member is here, they are supposed to be single.

 

Madam Speaker, with regards to insurance, I have never understood why Parliament has failed to go the insurance way when it comes to medical care. I think, it is expensive for the institution to pay for hospital bills compared to paying for insurance. I look back at the time my father was an hon. Member of Parliament, for example. He died in 1995. I was privileged to see the card on which we were insured. At the time, I was only eleven or twelve years old. He was allowed to have seven people on that card. I think, I shared it on one of the platforms. So, what has changed? Why should I have insurance, yet my children do not? You can imagine that as a parent, I am insured, but if I become pregnant, the moment I deliver, the baby will not be insured while I am still in the hospital. Let us improve the welfare of hon. Members which, currently, leaves much to be desired. There is a way that we can improve. Insurance is cheaper than paying medical bills. It is cheaper for us to pay for medical insurance, and our children can be covered.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I want to speak to the issue of the welfare of your hon. Members of Parliament. I have observed with concern that when hon. Members are given vehicles, they are expected to use the same ones in the constituencies. Every time hon. Members are given leave to go to their constituencies, they are not provided with anything to take them to the constituency. Even the fuel given to us is not enough to take us to the constituencies. It only takes us as far as the Post Office. The work that we are supposed to do is in the constituency. That is where we were elected to carry out the work. There is no way hon. Members can be given fuel to only take them as far as the Post Office, then it is finished. How do they visit the constituencies? We should capacitate our hon. Members of Parliament so that they can carry out the work that they were mandated to do. Every week is working time. There is a reason we do not sit on Mondays. It is to allow hon. Members of Parliament to visit their constituencies.

 

Lastly, Madam Speaker, let us find a way to capacitate hon. Members of Parliament with land. For most of us, there is a possibility that we will come out of Parliament owning only a vehicle, and it ends there. So, let us find a way to capacitate hon. Members with land so that they can retire in decency.

 

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I submit.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, before I proceed, allow me to pass my condolences to the family of the late Member of Parliament for Mapatizya, former Minister in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, Hon. Ackson Sejani.

 

Madam Speaker, my colleagues have already addressed a number of issues. However, I will just emphasise on the issue of beds at the National Assembly Motel. In 2006, a bed got broken and Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Hon Syakalima and the first Patriotic Front (PF) Member of Parliament were witnesses of that incident.

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta: What were they doing?

 

Mr Mubika: The hon. Member for Malambo, then, Hon. Muzidya Imange Phiri, weighed 165 kgs, and the wife weighed 145 kgs.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: So, the issue of the condition of beds at the motel is not a laughing matter, rather, it is a serious one. The former hon. Member was my good friend.

 

Madam Speaker, another point I want to add on is the issue of fuel for hon. Backbenchers. We are only given fuel to use when going to our constituencies, but what about our duty of visiting our wards? We have to dig deep. We differ in issues of financial capacity because some are well-to-do, and others, like myself, when we want to visit our constituencies, we have to be given some token for fuel to use, for we are only performing our duties. So, for constituencies like Shangombo, Kasempa, Mufumbwe, Katombola and Mulobezi, it is a matter of urgency. We need to be provided with fuel whenever we go to our constituencies so that we can perform our duties there.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of land, not everything that the PF Government did was bad. I commend our colleagues because, at least, they managed to find land for themselves.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: They got fairly-priced plots, which was a good thing for the PF members. So, can we also find proper land for our hon. Members, not 20x30 plots, which cost K600,000. Where can an hon. Member of Parliament find that money?

 

Mr Amutike: Aikona man!

 

Mr Mubika: Aikona man. So, can we, please, find enough land so that hon. Members can be empowered.

 

Madam Speaker, I will now talk about the issue of drivers. Without drawing you into my debate, you once served in a rural constituency. I think, you know what you went through. You know what is required for us, Backbenchers. As a matter of urgency, we ask that drivers and security be provided to the hon. Members of Parliament. The issue of identity for hon. Members should also be addressed so that we can perform our duties, as a happy family.

 

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, we usually come up with good conditions of service for other office bearers, but forget about ourselves. It is high time we also improved our conditions of service, as hon. Members of Parliament. I am lucky to be in this House for the fourth time. If you conduct a survey among former hon. Members of Parliament, even those who lost or were not adopted in the last elections, you would see that most of them, not all of them, are a sorry sight today. Why? This is because once they retire, or immediately the President announces that Parliament is dissolved, the Accounts Department automatically cuts their salaries. They are on their own. The Constitution says that Parliament should be dissolved every after five years. So, we get a gratuity for four years and nine months. That should be looked at. On that part, I urge PF hon. Members, especially Hon. Kampyongo, to please, support the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 7 of 2025 so that such issues can be normalised.

 

Madam Speaker, I have said what I wanted to say. I urge all hon. Members to be in agreement, and see to it that our conditions of service are improved.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I will not take too much time. I will restrict my debate to the welfare of the hon. Members, especially within the constituency. I will talk about what I have experienced.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the National Assembly for providing offices for the hon. Members. For those who do not have offices yet, I am aware that there is some construction going on. We also appreciate the provision of Internet services in the offices. It shows that the National Assembly is serious about improving the welfare of the hon. Members of Parliament. However, there are areas that I feel need serious improvement. One of them is the issue of transport.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that most of the constituency offices that were constructed had a provision for procuring a motorcycle. On a sad note, when those motorcycles broke down, the National Assembly did not take the time to work on them. Meaning that our officers, who are supposed to give us information, are not able to move. As it is, with the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it means we have a lot of work. There are times I would want my officer to give me information, and for him/her to get that information, he/she may have to reach out to some communities or go to meetings, but he/she will have challenges with transportation. We need to provide transport.

 

Madam Speaker, the issue of furniture in the constituency offices is something that cannot be over-emphasised. It is a serious challenge. When we compare our offices to other offices, like the hon. Member who spoke before me compared the office of an hon. Member of Parliament to the office of the District Commission (DC) or Council Chairperson, you will note that the office of an hon. Member, which just has a ka table and a chair? No fridge or sofa in there. These are some of the things that we still need to improve.

 

Madam Speaker, the computers and printers that we are using are obsolete. We cannot have a situation whereby, every now and then, you take your central processing unit (CPU) for repairs and when it is taken back to the office, it still cannot work. The officer from the Office of the Member of Parliament has to go to other offices to print documents. Some documents are sensitive. I think, we need to do better. Let us have new computers and printers.

Madam Speaker, I would also propose that hon. Members are provided with laptops for their offices. We do not always need to depend on our officers. Sometimes, we can do the typing on our own, then the officers can help us with the rest.

 

Madam Speaker, some time back, there was an issue of increasing manpower at the constituency offices. We have offices with no cleaner. The security personnel are the ones doing the cleaning. That is not the job they were employed for. Can we have cleaners who will make our offices tidy.

 

Madam Speaker, I would also like to comment on the office block that we have been given. My plea is that for the next contracts that we will be given, can we have properly constructed buildings and contractors who can do a good job. In my case, the paint on the office block is already peeling off. If you look at the standard, you will see that in as much as the design is good, the contractors that we entrusted to do the work did not do a good job. We hope that as we have other projects, we can have good contractors to do these works.

 

Further, Madam Speaker, I wish to welcome the idea of constructing a new hotel for our hon. Members of Parliament. That should be a good design with enough space, not where you have a ka double bed. Some of us stopped sleeping on double beds a long time ago. We need enough space.

 

Rev. Katuta: For what?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, hon. Members are asking me what the space is for.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, with these few words, I support the Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not know if there is anybody from the Executive who would want to contribute to the Motion.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. indicated to speak.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Do you want to say something, hon. Minister?

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. indicated assent.

 

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, we, as the Government, have taken note of the issues that have been raised by hon. Members of Parliament pertaining to their welfare and other matters that affect them.

 

Madam Speaker, however, I want to inform this House that when you are in the Government, you should learn to listen and ensure that you implement what hon. Members of Parliament want.  In the past, a number of good recommendations were made by hon. Members of Parliament, especially those in the Opposition. The issue was that they did not want to look after the hon. Members of Parliament. That was the response. Most of the good recommendations were rejected. That is a fact.

 

Madam Speaker, we have heard. We will look at the recommendations, and if they are recommendations that we can implement within the limited financial resources, we will do that. We will not be arrogant like what used to happen because what we are doing here is for the interest of everybody.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

We have to close the debate on the report.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Elias M. Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Emmanuel Tembo for eloquently seconding the Motion. I equally acknowledge the debates by various hon. Members of Parliament, namely the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, the hon. Member for Luena, the hon. Member for Chienge, the hon. Member for Chilubi, the hon. Member for Solwezi East, the hon. Member for Shangombo, the hon. Member for Mwandi and the hon. Member for Pemba. I take cognisance of the comments and responses of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Members who have debated are all in agreement that the recommendations that are contained in the report need to be implemented. They have equally provided timely and thoughtful reflections on how we, as an institution, can enhance public participation in order to strengthen the connection between Parliament and the people we serve.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, in his discourse, put it aptly that some of the issues that are contained in this report are merely being regurgitated as they have been identified and discussed before without implementation. He cited the example of the lack of operationalisation of the Parliamentary Service Commission.

 

In view of the above, your Committee, Madam Speaker, is desirous that the recommendations that are contained in this report come to fruition going forward. Most hon. Members are familiar with the adage that “words are words, and only action is reality.” In view of that, I urge all hon. Members to adopt this report.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, adjournment.

 

Laughter

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, I am now going to say what I am supposed to say.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1835 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 30^th July, 2025.

 

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